Basic Free Energy Device

[Hoppy]

I have an amp gauge and a clamp on amp meter. I have used both. I have several volt meters. I do not sit there and watch the batteries for the entire 30 minutes of the run, but I do check them every few minutes. You are correct in that there are fluctuations in the amp draw reading. I am trying to be conservative in stating that it is drawing .45 amps. I believe it is probably drawing higher, but 4.5 is the LOW I have seen so far during my checks of the meter. The voltage seems consistent at 12+ volts. I realize there is a range there but as long as it doesn't go down to 11 or up to 13, I am calling it 12.


I have found that there is a BIG difference in voltage readings between what the battery analyzer shows and what my meters (3 of them) show when I check battery voltages at the end of a run.  All three meters, and they are different brands, all show higher voltage readings than the battery analyzer, so I'm going to go with its reading as I HOPE it is the most accurate.


I am putting together a spread sheet of the data from the battery analyzer and after I get back from Arizona (leaving in the morning for a week) I will continue with trying to kill these batteries by continuing to run the same load while switching the batteries back and forth. The batteries will have rested for a week, but there isn't much I can do about that.


I will be at a place that is off the grid, so no internet access. I can check in here, but won't have anything to post as far as data goes. Can answer any questions though.

David,

Thanks for your reply.

If there are any reasonably frequent fluctuations in the supply to the motor, these would need to be recorded, as they will have a significant affect on the overall result as you are just relying an occasional meter reading. In any case, a better recording method would be to use a data recorder to produce a data set where an accurate average current and voltage and thus power consumption over the full run time can be obtained.

[Dbowling]

I will have to read up on my scope and see if it can store results. For some reason I think it can, but I have never tried to do that. I also have requested a quote on a DC-3VA DC-3VA Two Channel DC Voltage and Current Logger. Don't know how much they want for that.


The big issue is that there is NO WAY to accurately measure the voltage being used to run the motor, since it is running between TWO POSITIVES. The closest I can come is to put that same motor connected to that same generator running the same load on a power supply and increase the voltage until the rpm's of the motor are the same as when it is running on the system. So that will ALWAYS be an approximation.

[Farmhand]

Dbowling, a DMM will measure the voltage difference between two positives or two negatives or two anythings, just contact the two DMM lead points to the two potitions to be measured and the readout displays on the screen. However the voltage applied your motor will be changing all the time, but that is not an issue because all batteries change voltage during operation. Which is why we can take multiple measurements then average or whatever. Comparing in to out at any stage is valid.

If you are using batteries and want to know the total in v out then all you need to do is measure the real power dissipated by the load over a set time and the total real power to recharge the batteries.

The problem would seem to be that you are using batteries that are not in good condition and so therefore the power required to restore the batteries initial SOC is not possible because the batteries SOC is always changing as using the battery improves it's condition.

If you believe that somehow the batteries are manufacturing energy or drawing in energy then proving it will be very difficult.
Mainly because it isn't happening as there is no mechanism for that to happen.

Lead acid batteries even in bad condition can hold a considerable amount of potential energy (put there by charging), batteries in bad condition will just deliver the power in a different way to a good set of batteries, the power may come in a trickle for a while then suddenly provide good current and power for some time then reduce to a trickle again.

Unless you can show the effect with valid measurements, or continue to power a useful load without charging the batteries beyond the possible stored energy of the set of batteries then there is nothing to see here.

You've got three batteries and a small motor, and for some years now you can still not determine if the setup is over C.O.P. = 1.0.

How long will you say the setup is over C.O.P. = 1.0 without any evidence. 10 years, 20 years ?

Come on ! honestly, get a grip, the effect you are seeing can be explained in a couple of ways at least and has been already. Other people as well as myself have seen the effect first hand.

Applying a load to a bad battery can in some cases cause a bad to suddenly begin to give up some of it's stored energy while at the same time not affecting the battery terminal voltage or even causing it to increase. These effects are not new or difficult to understand.

I see no video demo's from you. Only words. Where is the evidence the effect even happens for you again ?

As for the "can't measure the voltage between two negatives" that's just rubbish. If there is a voltage difference present it can be measured with voltage measuring devices.

..

[Pirate88179]

Dbowling, a DMM will measure the voltage difference between two positives or two negatives or two anythings, just contact the two DMM lead points to the two potitions to be measured and the readout displays on the screen. However the voltage applied your motor will be changing all the time, but that is not an issue because all batteries change voltage during operation. Which is why we can take multiple measurements then average or whatever. Comparing in to out at any stage is valid.

If you are using batteries and want to know the total in v out then all you need to do is measure the real power dissipated by the load over a set time and the total real power to recharge the batteries.

The problem would seem to be that you are using batteries that are not in good condition and so therefore the power required to restore the batteries initial SOC is not possible because the batteries SOC is always changing as using the battery improves it's condition.

If you believe that somehow the batteries are manufacturing energy or drawing in energy then proving it will be very difficult.
Mainly because it isn't happening as there is no mechanism for that to happen.

Lead acid batteries even in bad condition can hold a considerable amount of potential energy (put there by charging), batteries in bad condition will just deliver the power in a different way to a good set of batteries, the power may come in a trickle for a while then suddenly provide good current and power for some time then reduce to a trickle again.

Unless you can show the effect with valid measurements, or continue to power a useful load without charging the batteries beyond the possible stored energy of the set of batteries then there is nothing to see here.

You've got three batteries and a small motor, and for some years now you can still not determine if the setup is over C.O.P. = 1.0.

How long will you say the setup is over C.O.P. = 1.0 without any evidence. 10 years, 20 years ?

Come on ! honestly, get a grip, the effect you are seeing can be explained in a couple of ways at least and has been already. Other people as well as myself have seen the effect first hand.

Applying a load to a bad battery can in some cases cause a bad to suddenly begin to give up some of it's stored energy while at the same time not affecting the battery terminal voltage or even causing it to increase. These effects are not new or difficult to understand.

I see no video demo's from you. Only words. Where is the evidence the effect even happens for you again ?

As for the "can't measure the voltage between two negatives" that's just rubbish. If there is a voltage difference present it can be measured with voltage measuring devices.

..

He won't listen to you.  My first post here suggested self-looping as a way to really see what was happening and he replied that this was impossible, which, of course it is if you have less out than in.  Anything else is just empty words.

Bill

[Dbowling]

Ok Farmhand,
I posted the schematic of what I am running. You tell me what kind of meter to use and where to connect it to accurately measure the watts of power being used by the motor in this circuit (that is driving the generator.) Once you have shared that, I will be happy to hook up the meter and post results.  I can also post video of the thing running if that will make you happy. I am keeping a spread sheet of the results I have gotten so far, and I'm happy with them. I DO intend to purchase some brand new batteries when I come back from this trip, just for this setup, so I will be able to start a run from scratch, record the data, and determine the effects on the batteries as I continue to run loads. I also have established that at least ONE of my scopes will record data, so I can record the generator output in volts and amps during the course of a run. And if you have an accurate way to measure the voltage used by the motor in the setup, as you claim, then we will have some accurate data won't we?


You are incorrect in your statement that I have been running the 3BGS for 8 years and have never established whether or not it is COP>1. You can get extended run times out of the batteries using that system. Period. I have seen that on any number of occasions. And by the way your quote "can't measure the difference between two negatives IS rubbish... and was also never made by me. What I actually said was "there is NO WAY to accurately measure the voltage being used to run the motor, since it is running between TWO POSITIVES." I  believe that may also be incorrect, but if we're going to quote each other. let's be accurate.