Successful TPU-ECD replication !

[z_p_e]

ZPE, one thing I have been wondering, is if we were supposed to replace the mobius with a ferrite.

When we removed the mobius completely and did not replace it with anything, we could not get the bulbs to light much at all.

Rich

What I think I said, and meant to say was, first with the two loops present, obtain some luminosity in the bulb, and note the intensity (take a snapshot of it for comparison).

Next, remove the wire loops, and again power up the device and take another snapshot to compare to the first. This is not an exact or reliable method, and is not the one I would be using myself. However, since everyone seems determined to use only bulbs, then that's what we have to work with I guess.

The bulb intensity should be about equal, if nothing else was changed. Keep in mind some tweaking of the frequency may be necessary to re-establish resonance again, if it drifted slightly for some reason. Keep the relative positions of the coils the same as when they had the wire loops going through.

Regarding the ferrite rod, there was no mention of the order in which things were done or swapped, so I am going to assume the following:

With the wire loops removed, and the ferrite rod inserted, a peak luminosity level was established. Then the ferrite rod was removed, and the intensity went to zero, or some low level.

Is this correct?

If yes, then I would expect that result. If things were done differently, please explain how.

Darren

[gn0stik]

ZPE, one thing I have been wondering, is if we were supposed to replace the mobius with a ferrite.

When we removed the mobius completely and did not replace it with anything, we could not get the bulbs to light much at all.

Rich

What I think I said, and meant to say was, first with the two loops present, obtain some luminosity in the bulb, and note the intensity (take a snapshot of it for comparison).

Next, remove the wire loops, and again power up the device and take another snapshot to compare to the first. This is not an exact or reliable method, and is not the one I would be using myself. However, since everyone seems determined to use only bulbs, then that's what we have to work with I guess.

The bulb intensity should be about equal, if nothing else was changed. Keep in mind some tweaking of the frequency may be necessary to re-establish resonance again, if it drifted slightly for some reason. Keep the relative positions of the coils the same as when they had the wire loops going through.

Regarding the ferrite rod, there was no mention of the order in which things were done or swapped, so I am going to assume the following:

With the wire loops removed, and the ferrite rod inserted, a peak luminosity level was established. Then the ferrite rod was removed, and the intensity went to zero, or some low level.

Is this correct?

If yes, then I would expect that result. If things were done differently, please explain how.

Darren

Ok, what you have outlined is not the test we performed. At least, not when I was there. Cam, Mrd, Mike? Can you guys verify if this is what was done? When I came into the conference All three spools were connected as they should be to the control board as per the document without the ring in. They were lined up so that a longish ferrite rod could be slipped through the hole in the center of all the spools, hence, their relative position was not as it was when they were on the loop. Yes, you are correct, when the rod was removed, the bulb lost luminosity. I'm not sure if retuning it without the rod could achieve similar luminosity to when the mobius was in the equation or not, as I didn't witness any attempt to retune it without the ferrite in the spools.

There was conversation about testing with no ferrite. If I remember correctly they couldn't get similar luminosity at all. But when the ferrite was added it would light brightly as in their video. I DID see him tune it with the ferrite in, and remove it and the bulb lost 90% of it's brightness, but this is to be expected.

So that's what I saw, if there's any more info you need, I don't really know much more.

Based on what I witness however it seems that we may have not performed it correctly? Or are the differences consequential?

It would seem to me that we would want to keep all the variables as similar as possible no? Just without the coils. Reduction only works well if you remove one variable at a time. If you change multiple variables, you can't tell which one caused the results. IE, change in relative position, and ferrite.

Am I on the right track here?

Rich

[z_p_e]

I would agree Rich.

To be fair and correct, as I mentioned the coils should be in the same position for both scenarios.

For the test done with and without the ferrite, that's another ball game altogether.

I would expect two things to differ with and without the ferrite:

1) The bulb should be brighter with the ferrite (higher L = higher bemf?)
2) The main resonant frequency will be different with the ferrite, and should be lower.

Darren

[gn0stik]

I would agree Rich.

To be fair and correct, as I mentioned the coils should be in the same position for both scenarios.

For the test done with and without the ferrite, that's another ball game altogether.

I would expect two things to differ with and without the ferrite:

1) The bulb should be brighter with the ferrite (higher L = higher bemf?)
2) The main resonant frequency will be different with the ferrite, and should be lower.

Darren

OK, that's what I thought, but I wanted to be sure, and didn't want to seem like I was trying to pooh, pooh cam's test results. Just trying to make sure we compare apples to apples as we do our reduction tests.

@Cam, you must have done a lot before I got there? I never saw you do any loopless experiment with three frequencies. When you tried you blew a fet. In fact didn't you blow two fets?

Sorry if I misrepresented anything, I just musta missed that.

Also, I'm not trying to get you to do it again if you are satisfied with the results.

In fact, I'd MUCH rather see Otto, or Ronotte perform this test, than for you to REDO it.

That would tell us if there are differences in the setups or not. You did a great job last night.

So, since we are all in different locations with different setups, it's difficult to see everything as it goes by on a web cam or if we're shooting the breeze in a conference with a lot of people talking it's hard to follow multiple conversations, etc. It can be hard to make sure we're all doing what the other guy is. So if different people perform the same tests and get the same results, it's easy to be sure we have essentially the same setup.

I just wanna be sure that

A. We did the test right
B. We are testing the right setup. (we built correctly)
C. We did the test at the right time.
D. We interpret the results correctly.

As I said, I came in late so I'm not sure about a couple of those questions. And because I wasn't sure what ZPE meant for sure by "removing the mobius".

Because we would get different results with ferrous material in the middle or not.

Rich

[c0mster]

Folks

I am not satisfied with the results... I found 4 IRF730's in my trickle trunk and checked the specks against the 840's looks good, these are used in power supply switching. I have the tpu back together and ready, just fixing up the 555 drivers and getting the right trim pots for the frequencies. The ?remove the ring test? was done as follows: I tuned the tpu with 1 frequency after I tested 2 and 3 frequencies. Why one frequency? I seen the same results as with 2, I just was pulling to many amps with 2 frequencies. As I said before the third frequency killed the bulb. Then once tuned with 1 frequency I left everything the same and removed the antenna, fired up again and right away noticed it was brighter. I then continued removing the lower antenna incase it was causing an affect. Same brightness... Then I removed the spools and again tested ... same brightness. With the ferrite rod I slipped it in re-tuned the frequency to the ferrite and brighter went the bulb. Adding the ferrite and it's effects are standard electronics. I should be fired up in a few hours with these other mosfets BUT Tonight I am going to lower the input voltage because these mosfets can't handle 12v and when you are tuning it will draw out 7 amps. Also we really should be diodeing the BEMF back to the supply so it don't hit the mosfets. If I blow 1 mossfet I will be adding diodes. Tonight I hope all your wishes come true. I will give it my best to measure everything, make a video and satisfy all our questions if these mosfets work, otherwise we will have to wait till next week or for someone else who is ready.

Also a few posts back I posted the Otto PDf I was using. I followed it to a T and also verified with Jason.

Cam