Sabous Magnet Motor

[jeffc]

Creativity, 
That is imposable because that would mean that it would have to accelerate from the start to achieve any speed at all. The only way it could self start and achieve a steady speed it to add a resistance after it reached the speed desired. The drag (resistance) will always be there and it will only become greater as the speed becomes greater.

No pm can self start without eventually self destructing or without adding a resistance to keep it at a steady speed.

If a pm can rotate past the first resistance point from the start of repelling resistance point, it will continue to accelerate because the repelling resistance is greater then the attracting resistance at each point of resistance. The drag is a resistance from the first moment it starts to move and it only becomes greater as the rotation becomes greater and the action has a equally resistance at any speed unless another resistance is added after the start.

Nightlife,

As you know I understand your reasoning, and now have been trying to understand those who disagree with your concept.

I think that your concept would require that the PMM motion be the result of an imbalance of forces.  In that way, the imbalance would be permanent and infinite.  So the device would self start and accelerate until self destruction.  This I think is a very logical argument. 

I believe that others here view this situation differently.  They see that a device such as this is tapping into an energy source as a kind of collector of energy.  And the collector has a maximum ability to extract the energy from its source, based on the characteristics of its design.  Think of it like a wind mill.  The wind mill only rotates as fast as its efficiency to collect the wind, combined with the actual speed of the wind.  If a PMM is based on extracting energy from outside the system, then it will have a maximum efficiency at collecting, and perhaps a maximum amount of energy within its collecting radius at any one time.  In this case, a PMM could self start (like a windmill) and then accelerate to a maximum velocity.

So I think there are two theories here, each impacted by similar resistive forces but very different in terms of where the energy actually comes from.  If you are correct and a PMM source of motion is due to imbalance, then it has to indefinitely accelerate.  If others are correct and the source of motion is tapping a stream of energy like the wind, solar, or a river, then an overunity PMM would not have to self destruct.

Now, if only we had a working Unity or OU PMM to test with then we could solve this puzzle!

Regards,
jeffc

[nightlife]

jeffc,

"They see that a device such as this is tapping into an energy source as a kind of collector of energy.  And the collector has a maximum ability to extract the energy from its source, based on the characteristics of its design."

That may be but then what they are thinking of would not be a perpetual motion motor.

"The term perpetual motion, taken literally, refers to movement that goes on forever. However, the term more generally refers to any closed system that produces more energy than it consumes. Such a device or system would be in violation of the law of conservation of energy, which states that energy can never be created or destroyed. The most conventional type of perpetual motion machine is a mechanical system which (supposedly) sustains motion despite losing energy to friction and air resistance, or while avoiding losing energy to friction and air resistance. According to the law of conservation of energy, such a device cannot exist."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion

A PMM operates in a closed system which would not require and or seek any outside energy source for its movement.

[Creativity]

@nightlife

That is imposable because that would mean that it would have to accelerate from the start to achieve any speed at all.

well u just repeated in ur own words what i said,just ur conclusion is wrong at the beginning there is no drag of air as the speed is 0,there is only static friction.Engine will not start if it can not overcome this static friction.In this example i assume the engine outputs enough torque to overcome this static fricion(and then the kinetic one when it is in motion already).If u reread what i wrote u will see that i said that it will accelerate from the start.Acceleration will be finite as the torque is finite.Acceleration will decrease (untill it reaches 0) with speed because of the air drag

The only way it could self start and achieve a steady speed it to add a resistance after it reached the speed desired. The drag (resistance) will always be there and it will only become greater as the speed becomes greater."

Drag of air gets added as the speed raises.Static/kinetic fricion is always there but not the drag of air(absent when rpm's =0).U can see it in the graph i attached.Parabolic curve represent air drag.Without friction it would allow to run an engine at the speed r2,because curve intersects the torque at point 2.Analogically for point 1 and r1.self starter self runner with constant speed voila


@jeffc

Do you think it is really air drag that is the limiting factor on this design?  On the video it appears to be a low rpm device, which makes me question if resistance from air is such a big factor.

Also, I think friction does not increase with velocity, and in fact I think it can actually decrease (correct me if I'm wrong).

As you say, in order for a self starter, self runner, there must be some kind of resistive force which increases with velocity.  Which resistive forces fit this characteristic?  Air drag is one possibility, but might not be enough at these low rpms and small sized unit.

no i don't think that air drag is limiting factor in this slow motion state.I brought air drag as an illustration to support explanation how a self starter self runner is possible to exist and how it works without destroying itself .I don't know any other resistance than fluid drag that behave this way.
Statatic friction is greater than kinetic one and from what i found on the internet ,it seams that sometimes friction does decrease with speed.

There is also one more possibility.If there is no air drag and only fricion.If dynamic friction is equal to the torque of engine,then engine will not start by itself but will spinn at steady speed when started by hand.Initial push would have to be greater than static friction.It will look like a PM then.

Finally i think that no generator creates energy it only transforms it from one form to another.PM is for me only a theoretical machine,totally possible if frictionless condition can be achieved(and they aren't ),then it needs no energy transformation to run,just one initial push(case 1 in my first post).

[infringer]

Clanzer,

Sup bud interesting motor...


So the question remains could it be ?

I would love to make a working magnetic motor it would be radical man.

Anyhow more info any build plans or input from folks with some technical knowladge?

I've ruined quite a few magnets already messing with other things would love to make something run though I must say.

Any reproductions? Youtube vidz?

-infringer-

[jeffc]

@Creativity

@jeffc
no i don't think that air drag is limiting factor in this slow motion state.I brought air drag as an illustration to support explanation how a self starter self runner is possible to exist and how it works without destroying itself .I don't know any other resistance than fluid drag that behave this way.
Statatic friction is greater than kinetic one and from what i found on the internet ,it seams that sometimes friction does decrease with speed.

There is also one more possibility.If there is no air drag and only fricion.If dynamic friction is equal to the torque of engine,then engine will not start by itself but will spinn at steady speed when started by hand.Initial push would have to be greater than static friction.It will look like a PM then.

Finally i think that no generator creates energy it only transforms it from one form to another.PM is for me only a theoretical machine,totally possible if frictionless condition can be achieved(and they aren't ),then it needs no energy transformation to run,just one initial push(case 1 in my first post).

It would be great to see a complete video of this device including startup.  Then also some more information about the build and measurements.  The probably would not be hard to replicate.

Regards,
jeffc