HHO Cell - Stan Meyer Design.

[newbie123]

Newbie, if your oxide is not working, then you have chemicals in the water that is damaging the oxide when it is being created (Just a guess).

I'm 99.9 percent sure the oxide layer is only non conductive  when it's completely dry, when wet (and in a cell) current will find a way through the oxide layers (with distilled water)...  making it conductive..   It will restrict current slightly but not much at all...  But the H2 O2 gas bubbles will be much larger  ... Just like in Ravi's videos.

[supermuble]

Well if the oxide conducts electricity in water, then you don't have a water capacitor. You need to figure out how to form the correct oxide right? Try the same setup with aluminum and baking soda with distilled water. You will have a salt water conductive water that is actually 100% INSULATING, IT WILL NOT FLOW electric current at all because of the aluminum oxide. Then you'll see what I mean. Makes me wonder why stainless steel is necessary at all?

[newbie123]

Well if the oxide conducts electricity in water, then you don't have a water capacitor. You need to figure out how to form the correct oxide right? Try the same setup with aluminum and baking soda with distilled water. You will have a salt water conductive water that is actually 100% INSULATING, IT WILL NOT FLOW electric current at all because of the aluminum oxide. Then you'll see what I mean. Makes me wonder why stainless steel is necessary at all?

It sounds to me like you probably just created a diode..  Not so much a capacitor.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=612.0%3Bwap2

[Farrah Day]

SM

Meyer said that voltage potential alone does split water, and the free electrons are stripped from the water molecule, providing sustained current at the moment of molecular failure (water splitting). Breaking down the water provides free electricity and free hydrogen... If only I knew how to do it.

This is the real heart of the problem in my eyes, the, 'What Meyer said' syndrome. Meyer says a whole lot of things, a lot of which is clearly gobledegook nonsense. This is most peoples downfall. Don't take anything he says literally (remember he has no scientific credentials to his name - don't let the Technical Brief lull you into a false sense of security), or do as I do and accept that his theory is all wrong and nothing he states can be trusted.

Again I don't know why anyone would try to build up a dielectric on the plates by chemical means when you could simply insulate them with, say a clingfilm type material.  Of course once you have a dielectric in place, the action (the voltage) is then across the dielectric ... not where you want it across the water.  The water is then simply acting as one of the electrodes.

Besides, SS is nonreactive in the first place because of it's chromuim oxide layer. This itself is a form of dielectric, but niether this nor the build up of calcium carbonate on the cathode prevent dc current flow.  Put a meter on the calcium carbonate layer and you will find it is a very good insulator, but I guess at molecular level it is very porous.

Again though, the voltage would need to be across the water to be of any use, not across any other dielectric.  To have a water capacitor, the dielectric HAS to be the water itself.

Makes me wonder why stainless steel is necessary at all?

Right, it wouldn't be if the plates were properly insulated. This in itself tells us that the plates need to conduct - that some current flow is involved in the reaction.

Car ignition coil set ups are very simple using a 555 timer cct. Great arcs, etc. but little or no gasing from a cell when you drop this voltage across the plates. Again this tends to emphasise that voltage alone is not doing the work of evolving gases. But this is all part of the experimenting and learning process.

Peter

I believe water capacitor is charged up to infinite high voltages using secondary output no higher than 400V to 600V at max

Dielectrics by their very nature tend to be good insulators. How can you conceive of this when tap water is an extremely poor dielectric and in fact readily conducts. How do you go about charging up plates across a conducting medium?  As I said, if you introduce a true dielectric between the plates, the voltage drop is then across that dielectric, NOT across the water.  See the problem?

Some of us have been experimenting with this stuff for many years, and little be little things do tend to start falling into place. But with no real 'Bible' on the science involved to fall back on, it can be slow going, and at times very frustrating.

[supermuble]

Farrah Day, I agree with everything you said. That's why I say I am stumped... Anyone who claims to have "replicated" Meyer could be a fraud, because Meyer's results were amazing to say the least.

My thoughts-- Using water as a dielectric isn't ever going to happen. A real capacitor has a dielectric film that is invisible to the naked eye because it is literally a few nanometers across (or some very small number). When you use aluminum plates, the aluminum oxide flows current in ONE direction, so water becomes the electrode, with one electrode conducting into the current, the other electrode STOPPING current, yes it is a diode and a capacitor. It is a good capacitor because the dielectric is very thin, so you get very high capacitance.

The beauty of aluminum oxide is that it stops current. Electrolytic capacitors use aluminum (not stainless steel). Maybe someone should try experimenting with aluminum. I know it sounds stupid, but aluminum oxide is used on commercial capacitors. It is made to be a capacitor. I've actually plugged 120 volts AC from the wall outlet, directly to two aluminum plates submerged in distilled water and baking soda. Guess what, not more than a few tiny micro specks of hydrogen bubbles, almost zero current. Now keep something in mind, when you unplug these plates, the voltage drops SLOWLY, because there is no loss.... That means you can build potential the way Meyer said, without having a huge amount of incoming current.

Just my thoughts...  I suppose we should forget about science altogether and just goof around like Meyer did. As most inventors have shown, it doesn't hurt to experiment.