HHO Cell - Stan Meyer Design.

[HeairBear]

No, Stan used recirculated exhaust for the retardation of the flame speed. We use the same thing in our cars today called an EGR or exhaust gas recirculator, although, the EGR does some things a little different than retard combustion rates.

[supermuble]

I apologize for my jumbled words. What i mean to say is that aluminum with baking soda and water forms aluminum oxide that builds stronger with a slow increase in voltage, and as the oxide builds, the current is restricted. If you put two pure aluminum plates in water, with baking soda/water and no other chemicals, then you can hook up ANY AMOUNT OF VOLTAGE OR CURRENT (AC/DC) it won't flow current.

Sorry for sounding like an idiot! I know we don't want AC current. However the aluminum plates act as a diode, and they will effectively block current, but only in one direction. If you use one aluminum plate and one stainless steel plate, you can form a capacitor with pulsed DC, however you can't form a capacitor with two stainless plates, at least not in the conventional sense, since water is not really an insulator like aluminum oxide is.

It seems to me like we should start with one aluminum plate, and one stainless steel plate, then we have a current restrictive cell which is a REAL capacitor. It uses water as the electrode. No current can flow, but you are still imparting an electrical potential ripping force on the water molecule.

I don't agree that water is ever going to act as a dielectric. It can't. Meyer said you could use salt water. That immediately cancels the option of using the water as an insulating medium. Right?

I totally agree that it is possible that the cell design is totally useless... Except for one other problem. Meyer said that before the invention of "304 Stainless Steel" (not 316, etc), you could NOT do what he did... He must have discovered a special electrical property of 304 stainless oxide.

OK, so I have my own radiant battery charger. It uses 10,000 hz 150 volt static electricity spikes. These spikes are reduced to 6.5 volts when I hook it up to my water fuel cell. From what I've seen, no person has ever charged their cell up beyond this level of voltage. What do I need to do differently? I'm already using pure radiant energy to charge the cell...... By default, I'm using something that is devoid of current....  Can anyone share any real "proof" that the electronics are the key? I would like to learn how.

[Farrah Day]

SM

It seems to me like we should start with one aluminum plate, and one stainless steel plate, then we have a current restrictive cell which is a REAL capacitor. It uses water as the electrode. No current can flow, but you are still imparting an electrical potential ripping force on the water molecule.

I don't agree that water is ever going to act as a dielectric. It can't. Meyer said you could use salt water. That immediately cancels the option of using the water as an insulating medium. Right?

I guess we might have to remain somewhat at odds with this as in my experience the aluminuim oxide, like the chromium oxide on ss has no appreciable current blocking properties whatsoever.

I do seem to be repeating myself somewhat here, but aluminium already has an oxide layer, that is what stops it oxidising in air or water.

And again, you don't seem to be appreciating the fact that even if the aluminium oxide was enhanced to be very good insulator, the voltage drop would be across this oxide layer, NOT the water - where we would want it to be.  Don't you see, the water would have NO electrical potential across it whatsoever as it would effectively simply be a liquid electrode, so would not in anyway be stressed.  But I've said all this before in previous posts.

You really do need to give this some thought, and perhaps you'll see where I'm coming from.

Are you comparing a WFC to wet electrolytic capacitors that use the oxide layer as the dielectric? Because if you are it's not the same thing - that is, it's not what we are trying to achieve.  In wet electrolytic capacitors the dielectric IS the oxide layer and the electrolyte acts as one of the electrodes. In this case the electrolyte is made to be a good conductor, while chemicals in it maintain the dielectric oxide layer on the aluminuim. Unlike other capacitors they are somewhat self healing and can reform the dielectric if over-voltage causes it to break down. Again however, the voltage is across the oxide layer, NOT the electrolyte.

[supermuble]

I am really just discussing possibilities, that's all. Hope that's ok.

Aluminum blocks current, only when used with distilled water and baking soda. It doesn't block current in chlorinated tap water, at least in my experience. Aluminum in a solution of either borax laundry softener, or baking soda, forms a perfect capacitor or a diode since the aluminum oxide builds within minutes and blocks current. This only works with baking soda, or borax. I've experimented with everything else and it doesn't work at all.

I don't know if aluminum has any value at all. I just thought we should consider it.

It makes sense that if you use water as an electrode, then you directly imparting an electrical stress on it. But I really have no idea what I am talking about. To me, it makes sense to use water as the electrode. I will try to study more to see why that won't work. 

One other thing I should mention. Meyer's cell supposedly emitted photons (it had an orange glow) in the water. In my tests, using straight DC and one of my aluminum capacitors with baking soda in the water, the aluminum plates begin to glow when they approach 100 volts potential. The higher your charge the plates, the brighter the glow becomes. You can see small blue sparks coming from the aluminum, like little sparkles. What the heck is this? I find it very interesting. Though, it may not have any useful value.

Ok, so lets move on to discussing electronics.


Found this online:

"An incorrect electrolyte formula within a faulty capacitor causes the production of hydrogen gas, leading to bulging or deformation of the capacitor's case, and eventual venting of the electrolyte. In rare cases, faulty capacitors have even been reported to pop or explode forcefully. Although modern manufacturing techniques normally ensure they vent safely rather than explode, manufacturers have been known to omit the key safety features that allow this."


I would have to say that water with baking soda is an INCORRECT electrolyte... LOL


"Another compromise must, however, be made in relation to the voltage breakdown of electrolytic capacitors.

It has been observed that this sparking voltage V is determined by the specific resistivity r, of the electrolyte, and for a specific thickness of oxide film may be expressed as follows:

V = a log r + b

Where a and b are constants.

The increase of V with r may be explained as follows: the greater the concentration of ions in the electrolyte, the greater will be the number of electrons emitted from the electrolyte and hence the greater the number of electrons migrating to the dielectric, and the more readily will breakdown occur.

In theory at least, electrolytic capacitors can be designed to have a very high breakdown voltage by simply making the specific resistivity r, of the electrolyte, sufficiently great. This again results in a large increase in the equivalent series resistance R; so again a compromise must be made. "

http://www.faradnet.com/deeley/chapt_02.htm

Water has a high resistance, thus VERY high breakdown voltage.


__________________________________________________________________________________


More information I found. It sounds like this is what we want:

"Avalanche breakdown is a phenomenon that can occur in both insulating and semiconducting materials. It is a form of electric current multiplication that can allow very large currents to flow within materials which are otherwise good insulators.
Explanation

Avalanche breakdown can occur within insulating or semiconducting solids, liquids, or gases when the electric field in the material is great enough to accelerate free electrons to the point that, when they strike atoms in the material, they can knock other electrons free: the number of free electrons is thus increased rapidly as newly generated particles become part of the process. This phenomenon is usefully employed in special purpose semiconductor devices such as the avalanche diode, the avalanche photodiode and the avalanche transistor, as well as in some gas filled tubes.

Once begun, avalanches are often intensified by the creation of photoelectrons as a result of ultraviolet radiation emitted by the excited medium's atoms in the aft-tip region.

When one or more electron avalanches occur between two electrodes of sufficient size, complete avalanche breakdown can occur, culminating in an electrical spark that bridges the gap."

http://www.answers.com/topic/avalanche-breakdown

[OscarMeyer]

I have found sources for information who claim to have met with Meyer in person and watched one of his many demonstrations of the demo cell in action.  This source says he used 36VDC as an input voltage to the cell’s electronic circuit.  They claim the cell had only a milliamp current draw.  Supposedly Meyer told them he used 410 stainless steel tubes for electrodes (or exciters). 

Another source says he used only 304 SS in his cells.  If anyone has access to more exact or precise details of his demo cell, I would really be in your debt. 

Also, I saw something in his video demo which looked sort of like a clip of some sort at the top of the center electrode or SS tube.  I could not find this component anywhere in his patents or even the drawings posted on here.  What in the world is clipped to the inside of the center tube number 10?  Why is it NOT mentioned at all in his patents?  Not even vaguely.

Please help me with these mysteries as I would like to figure this demo cell completely out and give it away just for free.  It is in no way patentable now.  They wouldn’t grant anyone a patent now being that it’s all prior art and public domain. 

Thanks EVERYONE in advance for the much needed help as I don’t have these critical answers yet many of you have been willing to share what you know or at least best guess is true.

Oscar.