Bessler , Karl I! The fat lady is gonna sing , haters bring it I'm not skeered .

[johnny874]

   @All,

http://www.besslerwheel.com/writings.html#top
"because no illustration by itself contains a description of the motion;"

  Bessler mentions that due to his arrest, he has burned all of his paprers which would prove his work. He lied    Why do I say this ? because he also said it's in his illustrations.
It is a short read on the writing shown and do reommend it.
Also, his Apologia Poetica is short and worth reading, especially the intro. http://www.besslerwheel.com/writings/apologia.html
This is because he said it is for people who wish to speculate.
I've worked mostly from his drawings having built some and parts of others. The better to understand their mechanics and how force applies to them.
What I do like is his refernce to Newton's 3 Laws of Motion,
"All things belong to one of three kingdoms and you have the evidence before you. "

What people have either missed or over looked is his drawings. His writings are worthless without them. I will give an example of why.
"These come in pairs, such that, as one of them takes up an outer position, the other takes up a position nearer the axle. Later, they swap places"
http://factumpoetica.org/ap-xliii/

This sounds like 2 weights working together as it should. But it is the manner in which they work that is revealing and is most important.
If you look at Mt 25, it seems to be the first bread crumb (Hansel & Gretel, a German fairy tale which might have originated in the 1300's). This is because he shows one weight dropping while another is lifted ( http://www.besslerwheel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Image:Mt_025.gif ). But as has been mentioned by many, it wouldn't work. My, aren't they the observant ones 
With Mt 25, what someone would look for is the over balance being caused by the weight that was near the axle being lifted. But then, the weights do not swap places. Something seems to be wrong, but as bessler mentioned, no single illustration will give the motion or make it known.
With mt 26 (it does seem that John Collins did a pretty decent job of grouping the pictures  ), you have weight wheels which ride in slots. These weight wheels move fromnear the axle to a position of over balance. He does say there is a problem with this. it could be that levers that cause them to move are missing. Such a motion would be simlar to mt 25 it does seem.
What does need to be mentioned is that the weight wheels in Mt 26 run in channel E.
In Mt 27, E is placed on the outside of the wheel with no reference made to them. Rather odd wouldn't you think ?
But there is this from Apologia Poetica "A wheel appears - is it really a wheel, for it does not have a normal rim. "
While I have always tried to understand what manner of vessel could hold the water or fluid that was pumped, that is the answer. it seems the rim itself was both a pump and a tube. And as one part of the rim moved into it's seat, it acted as a pump.
I, that is myself need no further proof to bessler's intelligence and for wanting of proof to his accomplishment. I have tried being clever in devising different ways of constructing a tube but it seems he did give the answer. just as blood vessels pump blood in the body, so to does his fluid run in his rim. The guy was smart people, you skeptics need to learn to keep an open mind, after all, I've been compared to a born again Christian when talking about Bessler, just not sure why. His wheel was and one day will be the marvelous invention that he built and did enjoy writing about just as I am doing now.
But for myself and people like Christo, EM and all the others who like Bessler and his work, it will be a good day when we can witness Bessler's work realized and Bessler recieving credit for his accomplishment.
At all, not exactly a Eureka moment for me but I am feeling good , d@mn, not an emoticon to illustrate with.
@Christo, there is much to Bessler's drawings where they are like a tangled web, but once someone learns to understand how they show Bessler's wheel, they become more like a kaleidoscope of his work.

                                                                            Johnny

edited to add; Christo, could you post this last post of mine in besslerwheel dot com. I would appreciate it. Not sure if the picture would help as it would possibly need to be redrawn to show how it might have looked, your call.

  @All, the weights that trade places are on opposite sides of the wheel. In his writings, he mentioned they later trade places. And as the drawing I posted earlier shows, the one moving upwards falls onto the hub and it's opposing weight is on the out side of the wheel. And when the wheel rotates 180 degrees (180 degrees later), they trade places.
Man, I am loving this 
 
edited to add pic; fyi, the water would be in the outer rim. the lift of the moveable part could be as little as 1/2 inch or 12.5 mm's. It would have a piece that fits into the slot of the outer part of the rim. Even with a movement of 1 in. or 2.5 cm's, still very workable. soft leather like with a bellows could have been used as a seal. and with Bessler being a skilled wood worked, the leather could have been between 2 pieces of wood so it would not interfere with the fuction of the wheel.
Needless to say, he would have needed to put a lot of work into building one of his wheels. a lot of work.
@Wilby, this is why there is no rush to get something built. to build an accurate replicate that would support his claims should be the first goal pursued when it comes to Bessler. After that, people will come up with their own variations on his work.

                                                                        Johnny

[WilbyInebriated]

@Wilby, this is why there is no rush to get something built.

@johnnyboy... i'm not attempting to rush anyone to anything... why are you suggesting i was?

besides, the fat lady is gonna sing... remember? christo has a design he hasn't built yet, but he's sure it will work. and... obviously, he’ll want to present us with concrete proof of perpetual motion, so i expect he’s going to have to check that his machine really does run forever first. this takes time

• .
  
  so yeah... there's no rush at all.
  
  [* specifically, an infinite amount of it.]

[johnny874]

@johnnyboy... i'm not attempting to rush anyone to anything... why are you suggesting i was?

besides, the fat lady is gonna sing... remember? christo has a design he hasn't built yet, but he's sure it will work. and... obviously, he’ll want to present us with concrete proof of perpetual motion, so i expect he’s going to have to check that his machine really does run forever first. this takes time

• .
  
  so yeah... there's no rush at all.
  
  [* specifically, an infinite amount of it.]
  

>>  johnnyboy... i'm not attempting to rush anyone to anything... why are you suggesting i was ?  <<

  Maybe your repeated questioning of why we haven't built one yet.

edited to add; @Everyone else besides Wilby, I do have a hypotheses of what sulphur, salt and mercury
are for. It may be very difficult to buy mercury. So, with a working wheel, someone with access to mercury might try this. But by combining sulphur, salt and mercury, a bearing and it's journal. The journal would be on the axle of the wheel and the bearing of course would be under neath it or around it.
By using wood molds and wax, it's possible that Bessler might have poured his own bearings. he did say without
those 3 elements, his wheel wouldn't work. With silver fillings, the silver is in powder form and is mixed with mercury. With this in mind, do have to wonder if the salt helped to keep the sulpur in a more excited state, in this instance, it would be so that the mixture more was slippery like a bearing would need to be.
And anyone who has had cavaties knows how well those types of fillings work and how durable they are.
Hope this isn't to much at once for everyone but for me, it is the culmination of a few years of building.
p.s. I have rebushed bearings before and have helped to pour them. By the way, they did have lathes in Bessler's day and being a wood worker, he might have taken the time to make some quality journals for his shafts. The bearings would have needed only be slightly larger in diameter, less than 1/2 the width of a hair. And pouring the bearing hot, when it cooled it could have gained the necessary clearance. just maybe. If so, his wheel and what he knew that he put into would have been something for someone who likes engineering.

[WilbyInebriated]

>>  johnnyboy... i'm not attempting to rush anyone to anything... why are you suggesting i was ?  <<

  Maybe your repeated questioning of why we haven't built one yet.

my "repeated questioning" is because you keep posting math as if it demonstrates the feasibility of this wheel. it's because you commit logical fallacies like appeals to authority with your comments about leibniz... who never even witnessed bessler's wheel. and it's really more of a rhetorical question...

do you even know how andreas gärtner replicated bessler's 'locked room' hoax? do you even know what other bessler 'successes' he replicated and demonstrated to be trickery? don't you think you maybe should?

[johnny874]

my "repeated questioning" is because you keep posting math as if it demonstrates the feasibility of this wheel. it's because you commit logical fallacies like appeals to authority with your comments about leibniz... who never even witnessed bessler's wheel. and it's really more of a rhetorical question...

do you even know how andreas gärtner replicated bessler's 'locked room' hoax? do you even know what other bessler 'successes' he replicated and demonstrated to be trickery? don't you think you maybe should?

here is a link to some eyewitness accounts. The people listed and enough are scholars whose "support" would disagree with a maid who probably could have cared less about Bessler.
As to most of what you say, it is meaningless. Like I said, you are a troll. You keep wanting people to prove things to you like you are some kind of expert. You're not. I haven't seen where you know anything about mechanical engineering but keep wanting to be recognized on an authority on something when you are nothing more but a lost little boy. You should get a clue.
Bessler's wheel doesn't violate the laws of physics and no laws in physics needs to be changed. Just because he was smarter than you is a good reason for you to try and run down any attempt by anyone to explain how he accomplished hiw work and to try and get something built to demonstrate Bessler's claims are valid.
The only thing a working wheel would do as far as you are concerned is leave you alone by yourself for being such a jerk.
by the way Wilby, this is supposed to be a research forum according to Stefan. It's his forum and if he doesn't mind people trying to understand and get built a part of 18th Century German History, I am not sure why you have a problem with it. Maybe you should take it up with Stefan ?
And here is a mathematician, inventor and someone who also co-invented calculus of which some of his examples are still used in Universities today. Get a clue or get lost please, your jealousy and whatever it is for being found to be wrong has gotten old.
    Gottfried Leibniz (1646 - 1716)
  Mathematician and Philosopher
  Viewed the one-directional wheel in 1714

"Orffyreus is a friend of mine, and he allowed me, some time ago, to carry out some experiments with his machine. It ran continuously for two hours in my presence and demonstrated considerable power. There is something extraordinary about Orffyreus' machine and we must not ignore it, because it could bring tremendous benefits."
http://besslerwheel.com/accounts.html

                                                                                                            Johnny

@All, Wilby is trying to bury Bessler in his ignorance. He is hoping that his repeated posting and ignoring engineering standards which are accepted will prevent any understanding of how Bessler's wheel worked from becoming known. basically, he hopes to bury itin the manure he is posting, but even so, manure can make for good fertilizer