UFO politics Keeps his word 12-12 12 Let the games begin.......

[Red_Sunset]

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If you lower the voltage, amps will go up if there is a source to draw from, to give the same 12 watts. Is there anyone reading +here+ that agrees with that statement?

Hi TinselKoala,
Your are absolutely correct to your 'initial' understanding, in this relationship, it is important to realize what comes first "the chicken or the egg". The regulation mechanism in this example is the voltage, not the lamp resistance.
What comes first:  A lamp is a resistance, that will draw a current according to the voltage it is connected to.
What follows: is the consumption which is the product of the "voltage x current", commonly referred to as "power" and this value is expressed in "watts".

Of interest to note, is what adds to this value:  the current is the "'voltage' divided by 'resistance'", this means that a lower voltage will also lower the current. So a lower voltage will have a dual impact on the power consumed.

I think the motor/generator concept and it's initial intent were clever but to execute OU in a device using the same reference frame is to our current knowledge impossible (the generator reflects its load to the motor, so the output draw comes from the input, for OU this link needs to be severed.  To sever this link you need to bridge over into an other reference frame, so there is a relationship but no feedback onto the source.

A simple test is to compare the motor load increase vs the output loading, e.g. does the motor slow when connecting a load to the generator?, allowing for some measurement tolerance would give a fast indication of a OU possibility.
If the motor slows down, is already an indication that the generator load is transferring its load onto the input,  lets assume it is not transferring its full load, than we most likely have a more efficient system but not necessary OU, this would dependent on how efficient the motor has become after reducing its duty cycle to 50% (since the other 50% of the rotation is allocated to the generator). 
The fast analysis done some posts back does not show any glittering gems that would have the promise of OU, if they were there, they would show and be explainable. Because for OU, the generator MUST contribute to the ongoing rotation of the rotor., it can do that by promoting the motor section or start acting as a motor itself, or the reverse where the motor section neutralizes the magnetic back force created by the generator under load.
None of these possible scenario's were found (I must admit that I have not read all the whole forum on the other website after seeing a few too many assumptions) and I tend to trust my own instincts to be eager to find OU, not to disprove it.  This doesn't remove the need to see a good reason why it is OU.

[mikestocks2006]

G'Day Mike
In the first video you mentioned UFO is showing how he is modifying the mecc Alte Generator head that he purchased
This generator is S16W 130/2 5Kva that is a 1 bearing Job dedigned with a short shaft that has an female taper to the end where it is designed
to marry up to another either Petrol or diesel  motor that has a mating shaft to match with the Mecc Alte gen head

I purchased a new Mecc Alte gen head that has a parallel shaft keyed and therefore has 2 bearings
As I progress with my builds I will keep all you here posted

Kindest Regards
Kogs

Hi, Ian Koglin
In his video it states Mecc Alte 6KVA.
No specs on your S16W 130/2 could be located at the Mecc Alte. If you have the specs that came with your unit, it would be great to post the DSR operation limits with respect to speed.
Are they also -5% to 30% ?
Thanks
Mike

Ps:
Latest video and measurements with 2 light bulbs,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPum7B65e1w&feature=youtu.be

Input about 800 watts measured Vdc x AmpsDc 34.4x23.4
Output about 1000 watts measured using a watt meter

I would be interesting to see what the rpms are.

For closing the loop this maybe useful:
http://www.trcelectronics.com/Cosel/pba1000f-36.shtml
Also, if the motor can handle 48 VDc this power supply (cheaper) may be useful for closing the loop:
http://www.trcelectronics.com/Meanwell/rsp-1500-48.shtml
 

[picowatt]

Hi, Ian Koglin
In his video it states Mecc Alte 6KVA.
No specs on your S16W 130/2 could be located at the Mecc Alte. If you have the specs that came with your unit, it would be great to post the DSR operation limits with respect to speed.
Are they also -5% to 30% ?
Thanks
Mike

Ps:
Latest video and measurements with 2 light bulbs,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPum7B65e1w&feature=youtu.be

Input about 800 watts measured Vdc x AmpsDc 34.4x23.4
Output about 1000 watts measured using a watt meter

I would be interesting to see what the rpms are.

For closing the loop this maybe useful:
http://www.trcelectronics.com/Cosel/pba1000f-36.shtml
Also, if the motor can handle 48 VDc this power supply (cheaper) may be useful for closing the loop:
http://www.trcelectronics.com/Meanwell/rsp-1500-48.shtml

I watched the video.  It appears that he was only measuring the DC current feeding one set of motor windings.  With the initially turned on winding, he measured 46 amps or so, then he switched on the "output" winding, which was actually being used as an additional motor winding and the current dropped in the first leg, because the second set of windings were likely pulling as much as the first set, but were not included in the measurement (i.e., 23 amps or so perwinding set).  46 amps at 34 volts is ca 1564 watts to produce 1000 watts.  Quite sensible, but no OU.

Others can scrutiny the video to see if my "he only measured half the DC current" assertion is correct based on what can be seen of the wiring, but he should have clamped his ammeter right on the cutoff switch knifeblade or measured the current in both legs and added them up.  If he actually believes one set of windings is acting as an "output", then the knife blade or a wire loop right off the battery to the knife blade would have been the correct location to measure DC current.  (He could also measure at any battery interconnect loop as well).

Surely he knows this. 

For now, still no party...

PW

[picowatt]

I see another poster over there mentioned the "only measuring half the current" issue.  UFO's response was to claim that he was measuring directly off the battery in a loop to his knife switch.  At 00:39 seconds it can be clearly seen that one end of the knife switch is bolted to the battery terminal.  The opposing end of the knife switch has the two largish wires attached that appear to feed the two switches which are assumed to be connected in series with the two sets of brush pairs in the motor (the opposing ends of the two brush set pairs then presumably are connected to the battery negative).

One switch on, one set of motoring brushes driven.  Both switches on, both sets of motoring brushes driven.  The clamp meter is only measuring one set of brushes.

His "explanation" as to why the current can't be measured at the negative end of the battery stack says a lot, and it does not inspire confidence.

Putting my party hat back in the closet...

PW

[TinselKoala]

Why is it so difficult to get these simple measurements done in simple ways? Never mind, it's a rhetorical question.

So we have the misstatement from earlier that the batteries cannot "generate" something over 40 amps, so we just turn that meter off.... when we now know that the CCA of those batteries can be hundreds of amperes into a low impedance load.
And we have the evident and continuing misconceptions about the relationship between voltage, resistance, current, and power, as shown in the conversation that I linked above.
Now we appear to have some further mismeasurement that seems to avoid including a substantial portion of the input power.

We have data-plate values taken as output (If a 500 Watt bulb is glowing brightly it must therefore represent 500 Watts of power) instead of actual measurements, we have measuring instruments being used improperly and we have data from those instruments being used wrongly in miscalculations... then we have claims based on the miscalculations that are causing people to make behavioural decisions, ordering parts.

And now we evidently have people packing and sending off those parts who have no clue about packaging heavy and delicate items; we have armatures that aren't even turned down to fit into the (sometimes missing) matching stator housings.... and we have conspiracy theories about just who is opening the packages and removing the packaging material that surely must have been there when the boxes were shipped because nobody in their right minds would just toss the commutators into the box with no protection, or ship a heavy armature in such a way that it is _certain_ to get damaged in transit....
Yes, it must be the Christmas hired help.