Open Systems

[tinman]

All it has to do is boil a liquid in a suitable pressure vessel.

An electrolisis cell is a resistance heater-->and we get gas as well

[LibreEnergia]

An electrolisis cell is a resistance heater-->and we get gas as well

Electrolysis and recombination of water is a lossy process. Expanding a gas to produce work is a lossy process. The environment cannot contribute net energy as this would require a cold sink at lower temperature than the environment. The combination of 2 or more lossy processes multiplies the possible losses. I'm looking hard but I just don't see any useful process here.

Now if by chance work did not raise the amount of heat in a gas I'd be forced to reconsider my position.. All you need to prove is it does not and I'd happily endorse this...

Waiting for proof now

[tinman]

Electrolysis and recombination of water is a lossy process. Expanding a gas to produce work is a lossy process. The environment cannot contribute net energy as this would require a cold sink at lower temperature than the environment. The combination of 2 or more lossy processes multiplies the possible losses. I'm looking hard but I just don't see any useful process here.

Now if by chance work did not raise the amount of heat in a gas I'd be forced to reconsider my position.. All you need to prove is it does not and I'd happily endorse this...

Waiting for proof now

There is no loss when you account for all the energy output of any system-energy must be conserved-->this is one law i do agree with.
The energy stored within the H2O1 gas,plus the heat energy is 100% of the input energy-->COP1.

With the addition of pressure,there are now three energy sources-disipated heat,energy stored within the gas itself,and the pressure-->which in turn is heat energy. The more we raise the pressure,the more heat the cell will produce. This is what i am trying to explain here-the pressure has already been accounted for in the form of heat energy,and we can use this pressure without added cost to the devices input energy.

Anyway,we will go through it step by step,and messure each of the two gas storage tank's energy as the process takes place-providing Mark can nut out the math involved,which is going to be quite complex.

[profitis]

Libre says:'The environment cannot contribute net energy as this would require a cold sink at lower temperature than the environment'

I say: yes a phase-change sink like h2o> h2 + o2.colder than the environment

[profitis]

 libre:'electrolysis and recombination of water is a lossy process. Expanding a gas to produce work is a lossy process. The environment cannot contribute net energy'


Me: depends on your setup