Newman machine with a closed loop selfrunning without batteries or solar panels

[Humbugger]

I totally disagree.  The web is full of misinformation.  Tell me then, if Amp-hours are a unit of energy, how many watt hours are there in an ampere hour?

Ampere hours are IxT, current multiplied by time   This is not an energy unit.
Watt hours are ExIxT, current multiplied by voltage multiplied by time  This is an energy unit.

Amp-hours are not a unit of energy.  I don't care what anyone says.  I understand why people treat it as if it were, and that is because we always know the voltage of a given battery we are discussing so, in that context, if we are talking only about 12V batteries, we can compare the Ah ratings to compare the energy capacity.

But a 2V 100Ah battery only holds 1/6 the energy of a 12V 100Ah battery.

And the very bottom line is that if you took six of those 2V 100Ah batteries and put them in series to make one 12V battery, it would not become a 600Ah battery!  Every 12V lead acid battery, in fact, is made up of six 2V cells in series.  The Ah rating of each cell is the same as the Ah rating of the battery.

Humbugger

[acp]

Sorry to chip in in this private conversation but,     

If Ah are electrical energy as stated by the website above, Then a 9volt battery with 1Ah rating has the same electrical energy as a 1.5 volt battery with 1Ah rating. I think one can see that this clearly is not the case. As Humbugger has been trying to say electrical energy needs the  Amps, Volts and time duration taken into consideration.  Commonly Watt/hours are used to express electrical energy.

[mikestocks2006]

Not much more I can add here.
Again in battery terms amp hour rating designates its energy capacity.

Take 1 battery of 1Ah rating and discharge it completely over a ?constant current circuit? for simplicity purposes of 1 amp

It will take 1 hour to do so, right?
Total system energy capacity at start? 1 Ah  right?

Take 1 battery of 10Ah rating and discharge it over the same circuit
It will take 10 hours to do so, right?
Total system energy capacity at start? 10 Ah  right?

Take 10 batteries of 1 Ah each  in parallel and discharge them over the same circuit
How long will it take?
And what is the total system energy capacity before the discharge?

Take 10 batteries of 1 Ah each in series discharge them over the same circuit
How long will it take?
And what is the total system energy capacity before the discharge?

10 batteries in series or 10 in parallel have the same total system energy capacity


You can do the same using a fixed resistor and run a calorimetric test, you will find if you recall from the old college labs/experiments that the energies are the same.

[mikestocks2006]

Sorry to chip in in this private conversation but,     

If Ah are electrical energy as stated by the website above, Then a 9volt battery with 1Ah rating has the same electrical energy as a 1.5 volt battery with 1Ah rating. I think one can see that this clearly is not the case. As Humbugger has been trying to say electrical energy needs the  Amps, Volts and time duration taken into consideration.  Commonly Watt/hours are used to express electrical energy.

Yes they are exactly the same in terms of energy charge capacity available. In  terms of energy charge capacity only

The confusion may lie in the terminology as it is used in batteries...

[EMdevices]

Guys both of you are correct in a sense but Humbugger is more correct and here's why:

My small 12 volt battery is rated at 5 AH.Ã,  (20 hr)

What does that mean?

It means they've tested the batteri and drawn an EQUIVALENT current of 5 Amps for one hourÃ,  (based on equivalence of charge that has left the battery).Ã,  Ã,  Ã, 

Why Equivalent??Ã, Ã, 

Because in actuality they drew less current for 20 HOURS,Ã,  Ã,  (a standard practice since the internal resistance of the battery is lower at lower current levels, less heating etc..)

So the tested current was actualy 5A/20 = 0.25A for 20 hours.Ã,  But when specs are listed we speak of Amp Hours, in other words how much current can I draw from this battery in ONE HOUR and discharge it AT THE END OF THE HOUR.  (Dont' try this at home, the battery might explode if you try to discharge it that quick, that's the whole point of these specs, they're just a spec, not an actual test they've done)


Ok, that's all fine and dandy,Ã,  but AmpHours is not energy, it needs the volts specified, and what are the volts?

It's obvious , we are talking about a 12 Volt Battery, or in your case a 9 Volt one,Ã, Ã,  and although the voltage fluctuates as the battery is discharged, we can assume it stays at the rated level and any energy calculations would be fairly accurate.Ã,  (an exact calculation would integrate the voltage times the current waveform in time)


Now, I see you've been discussing SERIES vs PARALLELÃ,  (let's take my example with 2 12 volt batteries)

1)Ã,  In series we haveÃ, Ã,  24 volts putting out how much?Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  That's rightÃ, Ã,  5 AhÃ,  (or the equivalent 0.25 for 20 hours)

Energy isÃ, Ã,  24 Volts x 5 Amps x 3600 sec = 432 000Ã, Ã,  Joules

2) In parallel we have 12 volts putting out how much?Ã, Ã,  That's right , twice the current so 10 Ah

Energy isÃ,  12 Volts x 10 Amps x 3600 sec =Ã,  432 000 Joules

So we get the same result.

So, strictly speaking,Ã,  AmpHour units are not units of energy (but we know we are talking about a certain voltage) so we can do our calculations.