Newman machine with a closed loop selfrunning without batteries or solar panels

[acp]

The Joule is the International Standard unit of energy defined as one watt-second. One watt-second of mechanical work is the work done by a force of one Newton (or 0.2247 pound) pushing through a one-meter distance. 3600 Joules are contained in one watt-hour, since an hour contains 3600 seconds,. Batteries are often rated in milliampere-hours instead of watt-hours. This battery rating can be converted to energy if the average voltage of the battery during discharge is known. For instance, a 3.6-volt Lithium-ion battery rated at 850 mAh will maintain a voltage of 3.6 volts with little variation during discharge. Multiply the voltage of 3.6 volts times 850 mAh to yield 3060 mA-volt-hours, or 3060 milliwatt-hours. 3.06 watt-hours equal 11016 watt-seconds or Joules.

This was taken directly from http://www.allaboutbatteries.com/Battery-Energy.html

So you see, to convert the battery RATING into battery ENERGY, you must know the voltage.

I agree Mikestocks2006 that 10 batteries at 1Ah in parralell give the same as 1 battery at 10Ah, if the batteries have the same voltage rating.

[Joh70]

Hum and last poster are right! Ah is not energy! I would say: watt is energy and watt/hour is work. The value Ah makes batteries of the same type comparable. in this case 9V blocks.

Answer to mikestocks case-example: each setup, parallel or serial takes 1 hour to discharge. But in the first case parallel, it flows a current of 10A in the serial case it flows only 1A but at 10times the voltage.

[Humbugger]

Sorry to chip in in this private conversation but,     

If Ah are electrical energy as stated by the website above, Then a 9volt battery with 1Ah rating has the same electrical energy as a 1.5 volt battery with 1Ah rating. I think one can see that this clearly is not the case. As Humbugger has been trying to say electrical energy needs the  Amps, Volts and time duration taken into consideration.  Commonly Watt/hours are used to express electrical energy.

Yes they are exactly the same in terms of energy capacity available. In  terms of energy capacity only

The confusion may lie in the terminology as it is used in batteries...

Okay Mike.  If they call pies "cakes" on your block then so be it.  It's not really up for vote but you can join the abusers of correct terminology and insist you are right.  I am going to survive while you go off thinking that a 6V 1Ah battery holds the same energy as a 24V 1Ah battery.  It's incorrect and I've tried hard to help you understand why, as has ACP, but it's okay if you don't agree.  We can still be friends.  I'll just have to remember that if I get invited to your house and I want some pie, I should ask for cake!

You might take a web cruise to a battery maker and notice that 24V batteries are just about exactly four times larger in volume and weight than 6V batteries of the exact same Ah capacity.  That's because, if they are the same technology and similar constuction and have the same ENERGY DENSITY rating, the one that holds four times the energy is four times larger.   

Humbugger

[Humbugger]

Hum and last poster are right! Ah is not energy! I would say: watt is energy and watt/hour is work. The value Ah makes batteries of the same type comparable. in this case 9V blocks.

Thanks for helping out here

but watt is not energy.  watt is power.  watthour (no slash-it implies divide) is energy.  power x time = energy

everything else you say seems 100% correct

Hum

[mikestocks2006]

Guys both of you are correct in a sense but Humbugger is more correct and here's why:

My small 12 volt battery is rated at 5 AH.  (20 hr)

What does that mean?

It means they've tested the batteri and drawn an EQUIVALENT current of 5 Amps for one hour  (based on equivalence of charge that has left the battery).     

Why Equivalent??  

Because in actuality they drew less current for 20 HOURS,    (a standard practice since the internal resistance of the battery is lower at lower current levels, less heating etc..)

So the tested current was actualy 5A/20 = 0.25A for 20 hours.  But when specs are listed we speak of Amp Hours, in other words how much current can I draw from this battery in ONE HOUR and discharge it AT THE END OF THE HOUR.  (Dont' try this at home, the battery might explode if you try to discharge it that quick, that's the whole point of these specs, they're just a spec, not an actual test they've done)


Ok, that's all fine and dandy,  but AmpHours is not energy, it needs the volts specified, and what are the volts?

It's obvious , we are talking about a 12 Volt Battery, or in your case a 9 Volt one,   and although the voltage fluctuates as the battery is discharged, we can assume it stays at the rated level and any energy calculations would be fairly accurate.  (an exact calculation would integrate the voltage times the current waveform in time)


Now, I see you've been discussing SERIES vs PARALLEL  (let's take my example with 2 12 volt batteries)

1)  In series we have   24 volts putting out how much?      That's right   5 Ah  (or the equivalent 0.25 for 20 hours)

Energy is   24 Volts x 5 Amps x 3600 sec = 432 000   Joules

2) In parallel we have 12 volts putting out how much?   That's right , twice the current so 10 Ah

Energy is  12 Volts x 10 Amps x 3600 sec =  432 000 Joules

So we get the same result.

So, strictly speaking,  AmpHour units are not units of energy (but we know we are talking about a certain voltage) so we can do our calculations.

Exactly!
The energies are the same and thus my first post here of the total system energy being 16x625mAh=10000mAh=10Ah,  Those 16 in series are equivalent to one of 10Ah total energy capacity

Series or parallel is irrelevant as far as total initial available system energy is concerned.

But also as I?ve noted above, some confusion may lie on the battery usage terminology to describe energy capacity in terms of Ah etc.