Knitel's InfinityPump

[Onevoice]

Hi Wiz,

Thanks for the hint to look at the animation on page 10, I had seen it before, but was bleary eyed and dismissed it at the time. Upon looking back again, I also saw a fatal flaw in the pic I posted. Your pic has some problems too. First, you show the weight going up in the water, implying that it is less dense but it also shows the weight going down with a bubble of trapped air underneath of it. it can't go both ways unless there's a blackbox changing its density. The second problem is one of basic mechanics, the trapped air is right along the gasket while the weight is going down. That is going to be the point of maximum leakage. Even if everything else goes right, its still going to get enough air trapped in the top over time to stall the pump.

Here's a new pic. I've decoupled the outlet and intake at V2. The outlet now only needs a backflow valve to stop air getting in during the downstroke and the real V2 valve is only used to let air in at the bottom of the stroke. I also added some stops at the bottom so that the piston never gets down so low that it blocks the bypass tube, V3B, and both of the V2 valves are raised up a little so that the bottom of the V3B line never gets air trapped in it and is never cut off. Thanks again Hans for pointing that out.

A suggestion about gaskets, tire pumps use a flange of leather or rubber to keep their seal. Its usually in a cone shape flared outward so that the internal air pressure compresses it closer to the cylinder body keeping a tighter fit. Applied here, the piston needs to be more dense than water to force a downward action. That's the compression stroke. It may seem counterintuitive, but that's the way the gasket has to seal for this to work. It can leak like a sieve going up, but it must keep a tight seal on the way down.

[wizkycho]

Hi Wiz,

Thanks for the hint to look at the animation on page 10, I had seen it before, but was bleary eyed and dismissed it at the time. Upon looking back again, I also saw a fatal flaw in the pic I posted. Your pic has some problems too. First, you show the weight going up in the water, implying that it is less dense but it also shows the weight going down with a bubble of trapped air underneath of it. it can't go both ways unless there's a blackbox changing its density.

please look again (animation (page 10))
this is not trapped-contained air - water comes out through v2 and air is replacing it, since floater is now heavier then air ("suspended" in air) it must go down - none of the air stays when floater reaches bottom (if built properly and smooth surfaces). in other words by changing media (air-water) under the floater - floater becomes HTA and LTW. Floater in this animation
is able to go both ways. although is a question if it can pump the water up due to paradox. this is the only questionable part here.no mistake here in animation.

The second problem is one of basic mechanics, the trapped air is right along the gasket while the weight is going down. That is going to be the point of maximum leakage. Even if everything else goes right, its still going to get enough air trapped in the top over time to stall the pump.

if we are looking at a same animation (page 10)
no trapped air here - when pressure below due floaters weight rises, floater stops - then water goes out (at v2) lowering pressure and/or (depending on how fast water comes out) air comes in-replacing water lowering pressure again for floaters weight to go down, at the bottom all of the air and water below is pressed out by floaters weight.
If V2 is big enough pressure of air-water below is not as high to penetrate sealing.

no errors here - only yet undetermined ammount of pressure above floater comming from pump up action paradox.

Wiz

[wizkycho]

onevoice

althogh animation could help (microsoft Paint for drawing frames - and then Gif Animator that transferes it into animated gif) - it is not supper quick method.

I now completely understand how this works, in KIP there is change of media (air-water) below the floater, now you introduced changing media within floater itself
so overall there is now much wider range in which this can operate.

one thing - you can allow air to go in where water goes out (at gen) and you do not need V2 then. then V3B must be at bottom
if you do this (allow air to go in) you will have less pressure from below - and therefore effectively heavier floater.

air will not accumulate, it is same if you let it go in immidiately or using V2 after.

well done

Wiz

[hansvonlieven]

You guys don't learn, do you ?   

Hans von Lieven

[wizkycho]

You guys don't learn, do you ?   

Hans von Lieven

...I mentioned paradox enough times - haven't I

Wiz