Where will the energy come from, to run a Magnet Motor?

[Liberty]

Hi TK,

Correct, the spin and momentum stored in the 4 unpaired shell 3d electrons originally got that energy from the big bang via up conversion from hydrogen in the fusion furnace of our young suns belly a very long time ago.

I actually do say the Iron will change as the energy is tapped just as hydrocarbons change and nuclear fuel rods change. Where did you read that I said the Iron atom would not change?

As for the energy, where do you suggest the energy comes from when a magnet causes domain alignment in a nearby ferrite? And here I mean the energy needed to overcome the frictional losses inside the ferrite as the domains rotate from random into alignment with the magnets external magnetic field.

I use terms as used by the magnet industry:

http://www.magnetsales.com/Design/DesignG.htm

Flux Density: B, gauss, tesla
Magnetizing Force: H, oersted, ampere turns/m

Here is another:

http://www.kjmagnetics.com/glossary.asp

Permeability (µ) - The ratio of the magnetic induction of a material to the magnetizing force producing it (B/H).

Magnetizing Force (H) - The magnetomotive force per unit of magnet length, measured in Oersteds (C.G.S.) or ampere-turns per meter (S.I).

Magnetic Induction (B) - The magnetic field induced by a field strength, H, at a given point.

B = H x Permeability of the ferrite. So the magnets H field causes domain alignment in the ferrite and the final B field of the ferrite is dependent on both it's permeability and on the strength of the aligning H field from the magnet.

Bottom line is: Tap any energy source and you pay for the use by causing the source to change. No Free Lunches.

IronShell3d

To me, after reading the explanation of the B and the H fields, they  are different units of measurement similar to voltage and current in electricity (both current and voltage are required in electricity to do anything of use).  So I would guess that both B and H fields are also both necessary to do anything useful magnetically.   

[IronShell3d]

To me, after reading the explanation of the B and the H fields, they  are different units of measurement similar to voltage and current in electricity (both current and voltage are required in electricity to do anything of use).  So I would guess that both B and H fields are also both necessary to do anything useful magnetically.   

Hi Liberty,

The H field is called the Magnetising field. It is what causes the initial domain alignment movement in a ferrite. As the ferrite's domains rotate into alignment with the applied H field, they produce their own field called the B field. The B field is MUCH larger than the H field.The ratio of B/H is called the permeability of the material. Vacuum / air has a permeability of 1. I have seen material with permeability of over 1,000,000. Most ferrites are around say 100,000:

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/HBASE/Tables/magprop.html

Also note some material has a negative permeability.

So in air the B field of a coil of wire is B (telsas) = 1 * H (where H = amp turns / meter). Wrap the coil of wire around a Permalloy rod and you will get something like a B field of say 100,000 times more than the H field due to the aligned iron atoms in the Permalloy rod.

IronShell3d

[newbie123]

Quote from: TinselKoala on June 07, 2009, 06:29:34 PM

And you have yet to explain how the energy in iron's electron orbitals (from, you say, stellar processes, hence actually from gravitation, hence actually from the original separation caused by the big bang...) can be extracted from the iron, without changing the iron into something else.

Hi TK,

Correct, the spin and momentum stored in the 4 unpaired shell 3d electrons originally got that energy from the big bang via up conversion from hydrogen in the fusion furnace of our young suns belly a very long time ago.

Correct?   As in... Correct,  You haven't explained how the energy can be extracted from the iron, without changing the iron into something else?


IronShell3d,
I find it amusing how you're trying to push your theory here.    Someone can say anything and you'd probably  say...     "Yep...  That's right..  The spin and momentum are stored in the 4 unpaired shell 3d electrons" ..

Can  you explain exactly what this means?      I don't think you're talking relativistic properties, radioactive decay,  or  energy levels...  (and If i remember right, orbital electron spin is directly related the energy level) 

[WilbyInebriated]

(from, you say, stellar processes, hence actually from gravitation, hence actually from the original separation caused by the big bang...)

assumption. the big bang THEORY is an 'extraordinary claim' with no evidence, ordinary or otherwise.

[IronShell3d]

You haven't explained how the energy can be extracted from the iron, without changing the iron into something else?

Hi NewBie123,

I never said the Iron would not change. Tap energy stored in molecular and atomic structures and you will change the structure. There are no free lunches.

Please take some time to read what I have written as your statements sure make it sound like you have not.

IronShell3d