Multi-kilowatt Ni-H cold fusion demo under way January 14 in Italy
Presently, Sergio Focardi and Andrea Rossi are holding a press conference about kilowatt cold fusion reactor using nickel and hydrogen that can produce up to 10 kilowatts: with 100 of such modules being made for a 1 MW plant in construction
http://pesn.com/2011/01/14/9501743_10_kW_nickel_hydrogen_cold_fusion_demo_coming_January_15_in_Italy/
Thanks and welcome :)
Looks like copy-paste from Blacklightpower Inc.,similarily a few years ago company named Gardner Watts aalso did claimed excess energy from hydrogen+nickiel+catalyst.
The only difference is with process explanation.Blacklightpower is claiming a "lower energy states" of hydrogen,called -hydrinos.
Italians- cold fusion.
All have the same substances in work: hydrogen gas, Nickiel metal heaed to a few hundreds deg.C, and catalyst -K3+ or Na3+
Regards,
pix
An update on the demo:
http://pesn.com/2011/01/17/9501746_Focardi-Rossi_10_kW_cold_fusion_prepping_for_market/
chronicle of the demonstration of cold fusion, in Italian:
http://22passi.blogspot.com/2011/01/bolognia-14111-cronaca-test-fusione_14.html
some links in English
http://22passi.blogspot.com/2011/01/web-rassegna-stampa-dellesperimento-di.html
Quote from: powercat on January 14, 2011, 07:05:59 PM
Thanks and welcome :)
Hey Powercat;
you really got me here, what are the accolades for?
I'm surprised this has not caught interest of many here on ou.com. This is the biggest news in LENR history. I agree that everything is not in black and white, but reports are much much better than anything I've seen in OU field.
I did some research and here are some links to save your time:
http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/01/brief-description-of-calorimetry-in.html#more
http://www.lenr-canr.org/News.htm
http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJbrieftechn.pdf
http://nextbigfuture.com/search/label/cold%20fusion
Quote from: Omega_0 on January 18, 2011, 12:30:34 AM
I'm surprised this has not caught interest of many here on ou.com.
...
Focardi and Rossi don't want third party duplication.
We would have more interest if they presented us their process instead of a black box.
Quote from: vonwolf on January 17, 2011, 09:12:53 PM
Hey Powercat;
you really got me here, what are the accolades for?
Thanks (for posting) and welcome (to the forum)
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10222
Quote from: Omega_0 on January 18, 2011, 12:30:34 AM
...
http://www.lenr-canr.org/News.htm
http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJbrieftechn.pdf
Very interesting, we have the detailed measurement.
I think that now lenr will enter the classic academia.
Yes very interesting.
For the first time good calorimetry experiments. Huge error margins. Simple setups. Everything looks sunny and bright so far, except it is closed sourced.
It does not matter if they don't want independent replications. The patent is there, if someone is serious about this he will replicate without asking. 30 times OU should easy to find....
Else, they have promised the products in a year or so, wait and watch. (I wouldn't put so much faith on the matter of products but I surely wish they fulfill this promise)
Quote from: Omega_0 on January 18, 2011, 09:14:52 PM
...
It does not matter if they don't want independent replications. The patent is there, if someone is serious about this he will replicate without asking.
...
It is doubtful. Most of the patents are written in order they can't be duplicated without getting more information from the inventor, question of commercial interest.
There is always a game between the inventor who discloses the minimum possible and the Patent Office which represents the public interest and accepts, or requires clarification (typical case: Kapanadze's obscure patent, the Patent Office lost the game, thus we also).
I haven't seen the patent, so can't say much. However there seems to be some secret catalyst in that cell. No radiation etc, so this may not be a nuclear reaction of classical kind. A first hand report from a physicist is here:
http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2011/01/18/rossi-and-focardi-lenr-device-celani-report/
Quote from: Omega_0 on January 19, 2011, 11:20:18 AM
I haven't seen the patent, so can't say much. However there seems to be some secret catalyst in that cell. No radiation etc, so this may not be a nuclear reaction of classical kind. A first hand report from a physicist is here:
http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2011/01/18/rossi-and-focardi-lenr-device-celani-report/
Hydrogen/Nickel cold fusion cell
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=338
Is it real? I think it could be , and hope that it is . What benefits will the man in the street gain from this if it is real ? New jobs , perhaps . A cleaner planet with reversal of global warming ? Perhaps . Oil wars may end , to be replaced by Nickel wars . Cheaper electricity? Dream on . At least we might get a new set of Tyrants to rule over us . The only real benefit I can see is the possibility of a more open minded attitude from establishment scientists to new forms of energy . Is it too much to hope that this could at least partly shake them out of their arrogance?
There are a number of differences between Cavitation CF and
the Rossi Thermal reaction. One of the biggest is the inversion
of the promoter and the reactant. In normal CF the reactant is
the D^2 gas whose molecular weight gets converted to [4]He
exhaust while it targets a metal matrix promoter. In Rossi the
hydrogen H^2 gas is the promoter which doesn't get consumed
much and the reactant is the Nickel Ni metal which is transmuted
to [63]Cu copper.
Here is Web link to Nuclear Fusion people discussing the Rossi Experiment;
http://www.talk-polywell.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=2829
I found this humorous chemist's blog link sophomoric post about the using
metal nickel catalyst, a chemical similar to Rossi's fuel;
http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2009/10/27/reduce_your_number_of_reductions_why_dont_you.php
comment on this last link: User Resin_Rat would probably like this one:
These chemical people - What they do!
If they have access trit. why can't we?
:S:MarkSCoffman
description of the experiment by LERN-CARN
COP 32
http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJbrieftechn.pdf
comments to JANUARY 15th FOCARDI AND ROSSI PRESS CONFERENCE:
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=360&cpage=4#comments
Those who find the empirical results curious will continue to ponder and tinker. so no real change.
That's my prediction too. :)
Quote from: powercat on January 18, 2011, 06:15:49 AM
Thanks (for posting) and welcome (to the forum)
OK I get it now powercat thanks. This is really exciting stuff if it not just locked away and hidden from us.
Is this similar to Ponds & Fleshman's work ( I'm sure the spellling is wrong) but you get the just of what I meant.
Thanks Pete
How is this going to work in the market place? How can you sell a device with a "black box " inside it . I f you buy it , you then own it , and are therefore free to take it apart and discover the secrets . I f the company decide instead to lease it to you , then someone can steal it , and then take it apart , and or sell it to the Chinese or whoever . The secret can not stay a secret for long .
It won't work in the marketplace not only because of back engineering but because cold fusion and OU in general is the most anti-business endeavor ever. It destroys business since it makes people free and that's why it has been suppressed and will be suppressed as much as possible by the powers that be.
Omni
The guys that made their living selling horses a 100 years ago had that same attitude!
So did the candle makers!
Change is good !!
Bring it on .......................
Chet
Quote from: ramset on January 20, 2011, 02:10:55 PM
Omni
The guys that made their living selling horses a 100 years ago had that same attitude!
So did the candle makers!
Change is good !!
Bring it on .......................
Chet
Incomparable. You can always corner the horse or candle market and make people dependent. In the long run OU can't do that. The people are set free, independent of any external enterprise.
Omni
You can always figure a way to "charge" people!,Its what our governments do best!!
I would Gladly pay exactly as I do now in taxes or tarrifs or whatever?as long as the oil wars
pollution and other 18 century stupidity that surrounds us now ,comes to an end!
Gladly Pay!!
Chet
I know, but you won't even need to do that had the OU become ubiquitous. The freedom will come about naturally and that's the worst nightmare for the powers that be.
@Omnibus. You raise a very interesting point here . Free energy will to an extent make people free . I feel however that this particular technology is different , in that the energy is only free to the seller of energy . To the consumer , nothing is going to change . It is only free energy in the sense that oil is free . There are of course costs involved in extracting it and exploiting it , and in its distribution . The same holds good for the device under discussion . The main difference is the potential for a greater profit margin . It is not on the same level as, say ,a magnet motor driving a generator which you could build in your garage . It may have , as I previously stated , certain environmental advantages . So while it is a step forward , it is not exactly what we seek .
One big problem with this from a scientific aspect;
The inventors did not describe the exact make-up of fuel
in this reactor. This is a major problem for repeatability
and therefore a major set-back for the scientific acceptability
of this reactor. I guess this may be a step in the route of
failure of this tech.
The problem is as soon as you sell this to someone it becomes
proprietary knowledge of *that* corporation â€" mentioning
the fundamental operating principle is just going to disturb
the population - the critics â€" so it doesn't get mentioned and
there are good reasons not too. So its operating principle never
becomes the “Oh whateverâ€, common engineering knowledge
required to get it broadly accepted.
Of course if ones sells this to the military â€" then it becomes
military proprietary secret technology and if it’s really useful it
may even get written up as a secret energy patent. Then write
it off completely, please â€" as secrets stay secret. So military
secrets are just a special case of normal proprietary information
and this is in the pathway of limited sales confidential tech.
So I think this is technology on the cusp.
:S:MarkSCoffman
@mscoffman
See
http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2011/01/19/rossi-and-focardi-lenr-device-probably-real-with-credit-to-piantelli
and
http://www.newenergytimes.com/v2/news/2008/NET29-8dd54geg.shtml#dpnr
These and other articles relate Focardi's work to a finding reported by Francesco Piantelli, a biophysicist at the University of Siena, based on an observation made in 1988. There was an article in Nuovo Cimento by Focardi, Habel and Piantelli, and the finding seems to have been replicated at the University of Pavia (see New Energy Times articles for references).
It seems that Piantelli didn't follow up energy aspects of his finding, as he is concerned with finding a treatment for cancer.
I was puzzled how a setup involving Hydrodgen and Nickel related to biophysics. The answer seems to lie in the use of Raney Nickel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raney_nickel) as a catalyst for hydrogenation of vegetable oils.
Raney nickel is made by using caustic soda to dissolve most of the aluminum out of a chunk of nickel-aluminium alloy, leaving a chunk of extremely porous nickel that can have a a surface area of 100 m2 per gram. The process (2 Al + 2 NaOH + 6 H2O â†' 2 Na[Al(OH)4] + 3 H2) releases hydrogen and the resulting material is presumably used to absorb hydrogen and deliver it in the hydrogenation process.
I seem to remember that Raney Nickel has also been mentioned in relation to the Blacklight process
So it looks as if Focardi's system is likely to involve some kind of Raney Nickel as providing a deeply porous container for processes of the kind that were observed by Piantelli.
Please make no mistake, Rossi is not the discoverer of the excess heat effect during electrolysis of water.
Rossi device is not "cold-fusion", its uses weak nuclear forces.
http://newenergytimes.com/v2/news/2011/36/3626-energycatalyzer.shtml
LENR is now mainstream !
http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/01/widom-larsen-theory-and-zawodny-at.html
Big names have their approval. We can hope for things to go hot now.
Thanks Omega!
GB
You are welcome GB
I'm very excited about this news.
There will be 16th International Conference On Condensed Matter Nuclear Science, Chennai, India, February 6 -11, 2011, where I expect to hear some major discoveries.
http://www.iscmns.org/iccf16
Public opinion is for LENR, as opposed to Thermonuclear tech. Only the ruling class is afraid of it. Here is a fun site for you if you are pro-lenr:
http://www.coldfusionnow.org/
With great appreciation i have found that scientifical-technical world, full of good paid workers, has really no knowledge on true CNF. It first discovered through Victor Schauberger and mentioned as:"Living Water" goes really so: 1H+1H+e(-)=2D+ve+1.953 MeV Das auch Angela Merken zu Spate (Spotten?)
Unfortunately , Rossi etc did not attend the meeting it seems. But here is some update and a long interview. And a good news:
Quote
Commercial reactors that would make energy for less than one US cent per kilowatt hour -- far cheaper than competing sources -- will ship in three months, Focardi and Rossi said.
Link :
http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/02/ossi-low-energy-nuclear-reactions.html
Our HHO perpetual reactor with electricity output of 25kW will probably some 13-15.000 EUR cost. Bigger are also possible, but this is only money question. It is much cheaper/1kW to invest as in todays power stations.
Quote from: Doctor No on February 23, 2011, 02:26:27 PM
Our HHO perpetual reactor with electricity output of 25kW will probably some 13-15.000
EUR cost. Bigger are also possible, but this is only money question. It is much cheaper/1kW to invest as in todays power stations.
I hope your group does this. You should target a "plug and play" looped
overunity power module at 1.5KW continuous. 1.5KW is the average
amount of electricity used by the average U.S. home. It doesn't need
to be throttled, just have it run continuously flat out. Separate identical
modules could be used to charge an existing auto vehicle, plus one more
to run a heat pump for heating and AC.
This module could be interfaced into an existing 32KW lithium battery pack
which happens to be identical for the car or a house and a grid interactive
inverter to supply 25KW AC instantaneous.
These supplemental equipments, while expensive, already exist, and could be
expected to fall in price as we move forward.
This is where the money is! - so go after it, ie. forget the bigger KW models
just focus in on 1.5KW. The key is to get all overunity suppliers using the
same interface specifcations for their generating modules then the required
inverter equipment will decrease in price.
:S:MarkSCoffman
But for Lord, please don^t expect Marc, that it will be also 600Eur/800Usd/1kW priced! And when take in advantage additional costs of equipment, i will show Your points to DocS. Possibility of damages also rises with each technical addition. This why we offer now only DRJ200 series. It is so simple, it can not to damage at all. What can be easier damaged is electrical engine. The next step in "home" technologie is DRJ400. But it has to posses 2 discs already. And this is already more possibility of damage. And with inverter to make it run with full power of 3.500 rpms there come another, and this all multiplies. Forgotten how easy Discovery SS was killed, and Columbia too? The Russians have of this abandoned its space shuttles, although were better as US. And thanks this, they had not accidents with them;-) The technic has to be as simple as possible. Thats my point of view.
News: Swedish Researchers confirm Rossi and Focardi Energy Catalyzer as a Nuclear Process
http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/04/swedish-researchers-confirm-rossi-and.html
This not CNF but only subatomic conversions. But when it was truth, that it goes with this big eff. it simply would had killed the observers instantly. Many Germans died befor War doing such big energetic experiments with mercury. 8)
This not CNF but only subatomic conversions. But when it was truth, that it goes with this big eff. it simply would had killed the observers instantly. Many Germans scientists died befor War doing such energetic experiments with mercury. 8)
Quote from: vonwolf on January 19, 2011, 11:30:52 PM
Is this similar to Ponds & Fleshman's work ( I'm sure the spellling is wrong) but you get the just of what I meant.
Thanks Pete
Yes, You are right. In general it is the same and also will be without succes. They, Rossi, as well Ponds(-Zayev), which had stolen this knowledge from Soviet Union time, did^t know the princip. The only difference is, FP team was even closer on it, cos they worked with cheaper water as in original russians exps. in mid 60ies. 8)
Hi Dr No. I now see the relevance in your post. This is very good news indeed. Golly. All is certainly NOT lost.
Kindest regards,
Rosemary
Don^ t panic. I thought some years ago already, that panic on oil market will be this year in september/october and prices will go sky high. But please see charts of it today. :o I think, this who know, know today that oil can be pumped for 6-8 y. really on. But please don^t tell it to anybody. I say: NOBODY. It is dangerous news. What will be when, "Rabbi" and his friends will start to collect oil for the rest of his lives. And this short. Very. The war is the only way for: endgultige Losung Juden Banker Frage. Liebe gruSSe fur Baron Edmund de Rotschild. Nazional Sozialistische Polnische Arbeiter Partei Sieg Heil! ;D
Quote from: Doctor No on April 08, 2011, 05:33:42 AM
endgultige Losung Juden Banker Frage. Liebe gruSSe fur Baron Edmund de Rotschild. Nazional Sozialistische Polnische Arbeiter Partei Sieg Heil! ;D
Geht's dir noch gut?
Aber sehr! (Alles wegen Plan) Tschussi :-[
Quote from: Doctor No on April 08, 2011, 05:33:42 AM
Don^ t panic. I thought some years ago already, that panic on oil market will be this year in september/october and prices will go sky high. But please see charts of it today. :o I think, this who know, know today that oil can be pumped for 6-8 y. really on. But please don^t tell it to anybody. I say: NOBODY. It is dangerous news. What will be when, "Rabbi" and his friends will start to collect oil for the rest of his lives. And this short. Very. The war is the only way for: endgultige Losung Juden Banker Frage. Liebe gruSSe fur Baron Edmund de Rotschild. Nazional Sozialistische Polnische Arbeiter Partei Sieg Heil! ;D
LOL. I must commend you on your call for keeping this information under wraps. And I can then applaud your efforts to alert us all on open source to share this secret with no-one. I think the only way that could possibly improve on this security requirement is to publish the facts and the need to keep it secret in National Newspapers. That way the whole world can help us keep this secret.
Just a quick question. Are we keeping this secret from Poynty et al? Or from our oil producers? Probably best to keep it from both parties. It's definitely going to work. There's nothing dies a more certain death from lack of interest than technologies promoted on the internet. So. The secret's safe.
Golly. I've just re-read all this. :o Hope it makes sense to someone. LOL
Rosemary
;D
some news Swedish physicists on the E-cat:
“It’s a nuclear reactionâ€
http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3144827.ece
in Italian Focardi explain:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbmJPqDwQm0&feature=share
test
Nickel is a cheap form of palladium.I am not surprised that cold fusion works with nickel too. Its in the same column as palladium on the atomic chart.triffid
Elements in the same column on the atomic chart are similar.triffid
Here is the latest news on the E-Cat. Yet another test that proves the system works by giving back at least 6x input: http://pesn.com/2011/05/02/9501822_NyTeknik_Validates_Rossis_Energy_Catalyzer/ (http://pesn.com/2011/05/02/9501822_NyTeknik_Validates_Rossis_Energy_Catalyzer/)
Strange how so little mention is given to this here. It very, very much looks like E-Cat proves that OU is here NOW, and we mostly ignore it. Perhaps we are addicted to the search for OU, so much so that we are blind to the discovery of it.
James
Its not that we ignore OU,most people here have no doubt it exists.
What we look for is Open source O.U.,That doesn't seem to exist [Yet}
Do you have any idea how Rossi does this??
http://pesn.com/2011/05/02/9501822_NyTeknik_Validates_Rossis_Energy_Catalyzer/
Thanks
Chet
Thanks JamesThomas, I came here just to post that news.
So links anyways:
http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3166552.ece
http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/05/ny-teknik-tested-energy-catalyzer.html
Highlights of this test:
Input = 300W, Output = 2600W
Hidden connections, RF beams etc were checked.
More accurate measurements using calibrated meters.
Note that this is mainstream. People who invented this and testing this are mainstreamers. No doubt there are skeptics, as this is closed source. But the good news is so far there are only positive reports from whoever tested this.
There is a patent (unlike all other claims), and seems ok to me at first glance.
http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?FT=D&date=20100527&DB=EPODOC&locale=se_se&CC=WO&NR=2010058288A1&KC=A1
It is sad that this has not generated any interest among ou.com folk and it was not plugged in on front page. Of course there are no replication attempts. As you can see the apparatus is "primitive" no hi-tech required.
Thank you Omega, for your post with pics.
This may very well be the greatest news on the OU front. It's biting us on the nipples yet the main stream and OU crowd ignore it.
"The more things change, the more they remain the same."
I don't know if its the case that its being ignored - rather that key details are not being disclosed, so what is there to replicate? As was said, this thing looks pretty low tech, so I'm sure that the excluded details are going to be quite crucial to success - I'm not a fan of doing work on sheer guesses alone, myself.
I also am not convinced, hype, measurements, etc, aside - I'm still feeling burned by Steorn and a half decade of hope, and waiting. I don't expect to see these hidden details ever revealed. haha look at me, I'm turning into a jaded cynical OU armchair researcher ;)
not that iam not interested in ou ,just that i don't understand whats going on with the cold fusion process. It's like voodoo to me, i understand electronics more than chemistry .And so do the most of the experimenters of this site. they are in the same boat.
cheers ztec2002
NASA is working on LENR Replication and Theory Confirmation (Not on Rossi device though but on the nickel-hydrogen research of Francesco Piantelli)
http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2011/05/06/nasa-working-on-lenr-replication-and-theory-confirmation/#comments
Its anyone's guess what's going on behind the curtains there and how far they are into it. But a public announcement means something.
Professor Christos Stremmenos, VP of the company that will manufacture the ECats, almost gives away the secret to LENR in an interview:
http://22passi.blogspot.com/2011/05/stremmenos-cold-fusion-will-solve.html
The Ni powder must be purified by degassing it at 500 degC and low pressure for a week. Then it begins to absorb H2 and LENRs start.
He also tells how it all started from Pons & F experiment. This seems to be a variant of it.
To help keep up on the news of this invention one search you can use is e-cat. 2 copper isotopes produced from nickel is very exciting. I went to chem trail central and all my posts and pictures are gone. I have been warning people that the idiots that be are picking the curriculum so you can't think in a way you will make a breakthrough. I also warned that pictures are being modified to disinform and subliminals have been added for social engineering. Hang in here with me, I am going somewhere relevant with this. Ever since the Manhattan Project they have known how to correct statements about particle physics and molecular bond information. They did not.
The e-cat is an important stepping stone. A learning tool we had better use wisely. Physics is the study of the natural environment and the knowledge gained is supposed to be used to benefit mankind. It is not the study of text books to be parroted as a religious fervor. So, we glean several facts from this invention. One is they were not incorrect that cold fusion cannot exist, they were disinforming. They have been teaching fiction instead of fact. They have totally abandon scientific method.
What do we know. We know the atom contains more than one form of energy. We know molecular bonds are incorrectly defined in the text books. Convalescent bonds are not stronger than other bonds. They appear so at first glance because the ambient energy of the Earth makes them appear so. What we need to do now is work out the truth. OK, first off think of all the things you have observed about the atom. I have observed stripping static electrical energy, photon bursts, and heat energy. Ionized, plasma, mantissa and half life.
Molecular bonds:
I am going to ask you all to think and post. Hydrogen on demand is being approached the wrong way. Please listen to this carefully. What you need to accomplish is this. You need to change the energy so the Oxygen atoms in a vessel of water will rather bond with other Oxygen atoms. The result will be 2 molecules of water will become 4 atoms of mono atomic Hydrogen and O2. This will require some research. You can think tank here. The e-cat is the most marvelous stepping stone that could ever come into existence at this moment. I will step out and lurk only listening to all of you think.
There seems to be several reasons this important news seems to have gone unnoticed.
You have the RomeroUK motor replication that is sweeping ALL the free energy forums right now. Then you have new Stan Meyer technology releases that show how Stan hid how he built many of his devices that are NOT found in any of his patents.
Then on top of all of the recent stuff, there's PESN.com's daily releases of OU discoveries. Now I'm sorry but they ALL can't be OU which is why many people's sense all dull to ANY OU news now. There's just so many bogus claims out there not to mention that cold fusion or anything like it has been destroyed by the laws of physics scientific community.
At least once a week, someone sends me an email telling me I'm a millionaire and all I have to do is reply with my social security number and correct address and the money will be delivered in 24 hours. Now we all know these things are scams. Now if someone were to tell me I just won $10,000.00 and it was true, I wouldn't even listen to another word while I slam my door shut.
regards,
Chessnyt
OK, I'll think out loud a minute. Why molecular bonds do not exist as portrayed in the text books. First the prime orbit of an atom can only have up to 2 electrons. Exactly what is an electron anyway? Don't go to the text book for the answer. Other orbits are either parallel, perpendicular, or at a 45% angle to the prime orbit. Why then is the water molecule at the angle it is between the nucleuses of the three atoms in a water molecule?
OK, by description the hydrogen is positive and the oxygen is negative. Not likely. Yes that would create an attraction. How ever it would probably create a fusion reaction. There is a barrier between the atoms, they stay individual atoms.
Cohesion, adhesion and surface tension, what are the actual forces that cause these properties? Yes I asked what forces!
Quantum Physics offers that an atom is a closed loop. That is helpful if it is right. Which force would make the oxygen atom rather bond with oxygen atoms than hydrogen? Are these forces even mentioned in the text books. (Not so far as I can tell.) I have seen mention of electro-magnetism and gravity. Little other references are made.
Distances of these forces and their effect must be critical. In other words does the force that allows 2 electrons in the prime orbit appear in bands that allow the number in further orbits to exist? What about the force just outside the valance orbit that keeps the atoms identity? The force that causes impenetrability?
Is the force that determines electron orbit size and number as constant as the force that makes planet orbits identification mathematically computational by formula?
We have to start from scratch you know. I'm sure you can quote the textbooks, 1000s of scientist are struggling with the fact that the textbook explanation does not work. Maybe the angle of the atoms in a water molecule are such because the force holding the hydrogen atoms apart sets the distance between those 2 atoms. Of course I am discussing the average distance because I believe they are correct that the distance varies.
Last info from Rossi E-cat.
Because he hasn't international patent yet he is not disclosing a "secret" catalyst, but at the same time he wants to start commercialising his E-cat cells, so he came to idea installing a self-destructive mechanism into the cell in case someone wants to open it and find out what catalyst material is used.
Another greedy bastard! History is repeating again.How many groundbreaking inventions were taken to the grave together with the guy, because he was so greedy to give this to the humankind.
Anyway- this is invention originated from prof. Piantelli, that Rossi bastard only perfected ( engineered)it to obtain a better results.Read Piantelli patents and papers and you will find how to replicate process.
After reading the patents and and Piantelli papers I came to this:
1.Nickiel nanopowder needs to be annealed at about 400-500 deg C in the vacuum for a week or so to remove all gaseous impirities.
2.Anything that breaks atomic hydrogen H2 into monoatomic H will help. So adding for example wolfram pieces or powder into nickiel powder will start process. If I remember well in high temperature Wolfram breaks atomic hydrogen H2 into H.The point is to let react nickiel powder in high temperature with monoatomic H atoms.
3.Maybe adding potassium, K3+ will also start heat production, in case process is similiar to Blaclightpower invention.
4.After annealing slowly introduce hydrogen gas into the cell, heating it at the same time by electrical heating element.And look for the results.
In my opinion Rossi only mastered process already invented and known.There is still no solid explanation how it works, but it has to be or Piantelli or Blacklightpower related stuff, or both of them at once. I will try to experiment since this is really easy. Any refrigeration trained engineer easily could set-up such cell.
Regards,
pix
With this above, how You had described Rossi, You had personalized self: You are selfish and jealous. Rossi knows well about such peoples as You, but what he only should to do, is own party as wanted his fellow Beluzzo to do 50y. ago. As i stated earlier: free energy, even civilian, is not for all. Only for chosen first. I think, serious people don^t need an explanation.
Good news : This experiment got replicated. It produced 8 W for four days. Replication is done by a well know mainstream scientist with good credentials.
http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/06/brian-ahern-getting-8-watts-in-low.html
The above link has all the details needed to replicate it. (You can call it open source if you like, but its actually the method of experiment which produced OU)
The chances of it being a fraud are diminishing. I'm sure many more will jump in and replicate this. However, this is beyond the capabilities of an average ou.com hobbyist (like me) as it needs some substances in nano-powder form and a high-end oven.
Quote from: Doctor No on June 11, 2011, 06:41:11 AM
With this above, how You had described Rossi, You had personalized self: You are selfish and jealous. Rossi knows well about such peoples as You, but what he only should to do, is own party as wanted his fellow Beluzzo to do 50y. ago. As i stated earlier: free energy, even civilian, is not for all. Only for chosen first. I think, serious people don^t need an explanation.
You seem not be capable of understanding written text.
1.If I would be selfish- I wouldn't describe my findings on the open forum. Understand? All this process "trick" lies with annealing nanopowder of Ni under vacuum.Triple purging is method well known to refrigeration engineers, it removes all the gases and moist from the system.So triple purging of Ni powder with H2 will do the job.
2.Rossi is simple arogant bastard, just clever enough to master process invented by Piantelli and others.He is looking for the money.Second secret lies in large reaction area of Ni nanopowder.Third secret lies how to breake introduced H2 into atomic H.
3.Free energy "only for chosen ones", as you state? And WHO is selfish anf jealous? WHAT are you doing on this forum? You think you are "the choosen one"? buahaha ;D
pix
Mr Mordkowicz (or Pix,as Your cryptonim is), why are You already disgracing not only me, but already Rossi? When You are working on "free energy" (even it is not for real), You should not to do such things. And what others think about?:-)
Defkalion Green Technologies is set to produce the reactors, they named it Hyperion.
http://www.defkalion-energy.com/White%20Paper_DGT.pdf
Some videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVEBCN6D13w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAJnZZi41YA&feature=player_embedded
There is pin drop silence about all this in US media. Perhaps they don't want you to know.
Omega
Wow,
Thanks, we have heard nothing from Greece but "bad"
here in the U.S.
Perhaps The "Bad" will give them the Balls to Make this a reality!!
Very cool stuff...............
Chet
@All
Member bolt is starting a very Focused replication attempt At Tariel Kapanadze's invention!
It will be an Open Source endeavor.
He needs a few Bucks for some supplies, give whatever you can.
Here,
http://tinyurl.com/6xvesuk
They say It takes a village to raise a child?
We are that village
and Open Source free energy is the Child.................
Thanks
Chet
They are now saying that the nickel-hydrogen exothermic reaction is NOT cold fusion??? This was stated in their White Paper that was revealed in their conference on June 23.
This whole thing sound very strange but time will tell.
Of course that this not cold fusion. The cold nuclear fusion is the only process in which fuel is not wasted. As in our devices: DRJ200 http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10213.0
DRJ600 http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10212.0 and first in modern times, which were built by academician Potapov http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10403.0
When You have some time, You should to read more about Victor Schauberger.
Historically, he was first who discovered this process and called it as: "The Living Water".
This is same process which goes in our body cells, builds them up and gives real living energy also.
(Not this from food, medicines and oil as says modern science).
More about but, will only studied on our Academy for Nature Study: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10845.0
Yours
DN
www.facebook.com/nsppp
After reading "The White Paper" Rossi's discovery is completely removing itself from the E-Cat being able to work because of some level of cold fusion being obtained. They are now saying that the reaction is due to a exothermic reaction between the nickel and hydrogen with there still unannounced catalyst.
Frankly I think this is a very positive step forward as cold fusion would have been difficult to proof and accept. A strickly "chemical" reaction" seems more rationial and more possible to bring to fruitation. The first paragraph above in this article still mentions cold fusion but I think thats about to change.
This could get very interesting! Right now they say that they can produce only heat and are making some extraordinary claims regarding output vs input. Time will tell about this. Of course the goal is to couple the heat output to produce power. Things appear to be moving in an orderly manner. All this nonsence about the evil oil cartels is counter productive, if this new technology turns out to be real it will be an avalanche that cannot be stopped by anyone
@All
More and more I am being sure that there is no any secret catalyst and I am thinking this is a cover story just to keep people thinking about catalyst- and meanwhile get as many bucks as possible.Patent pending process is "buying a time" for Rossi, and meanwhile he is doing a lot of working device presentations to get investors.
Reading Piantelli and Focardi papers ( those are the fathers of invention)- Rossi will not get a patent on the process and catalyst because there is no catalyst, and process is already patented by Piantelli.
Piantelli and Focardi did their experiments with solid rods of Ni- and mentioned that secret lies in proper surface of Ni rod preparation and proper vacuum annealing to get rid of all dissolved gases and impurities.To be exact- clusters of Ni atoms on the surface must be of proper size and free from dissolved gases..
What did Rossi so he has a much bigger energy gains?
Simple- he uses Ni powders. Reaction surface area is huge compared to Piantelli rods.
Then, to dissolve H2 gas to atomic H+ ions- Nickel is doing that in a high temperature.
Then- (what I think)it comes to Blacklightpower part- Nickel atoms accept electron from atomic H amd makes it "shrunk" to lower state creating hydrino.This alone gives off excess energy.
Then uncertain part- what I think lower energy H atom (Mills hydrino) because of smaller size gets more easily into cluster structure of Ni transition metal and due to lattice vigorous vibrations at high temperature some nuclear reactions may take place.This is my guessing and there is still no exact explanation theory what is going on really.
Blacklightpower process is similiar but somewhat different.Mills cell (Thermacore patent) utilizes small nickel rod, heated to elevated temperature to dissolve introduced H2 into H+, and then atomic H reacts with one of the catalysts, like K3+. So process is similiar but scale and reaction area in Rossi attempt is simply HUGE.And correctly prepared Nickel powder is doing all job.
Tungsten metal at high temperature also dissolves H2 into atomic H+, and Mills was used Tungsten in his cells also.
But IF (big IF) there is any catalyst in Rossi E-Cat, that would be one of Blacklightpower ones.
Too many coincidences.
Regards,
Pix
Lets start the reverse engineer process ... what do we see
The electronics look like PWM that are used for CNC machines (I know because they look somewhat like mine) this would make sense.
The pipes are just copper along with the chambers that can be bought at plumbing stores. They are soldered together from what looks like a silver solder which can have a few differnet properties, not brazed together that is forsure. The copper fittings and vessels have gotten hot enought to produce the oxide flaking, this would be from the soldering process. This would also occur on the inside of the pipes and fittings.
The valves are made of stainless steel and use teflon seals.
The catalyst is most likely the copper itself, it could also be the silver, tin or lead in the solder. It could also be a piece of a catalytic coverter from a car droped into one of the chambers, but I don't think so.
I believe it has some thing to do with the frequency of the voltage being applied in combination with rest. It could be that the hydrogen is being ignited with some of the oxygen in the closed chamber and then having the bond broken again. This would certainly produce alot of heat with minimal loss. The nickel powder would make this bond easier to be broken.
some of my thoughts on it
@pix
It does not matter if there is none, as long as it produces COP>6 (or whatever). It can be simple Palladium powder or anything that sucks in H2. I'd let Rossi have some money. World needs it badly.
Defkalion has set up a forum and many skeptics are posting there. Reminds you of some other failed co.? ;)
http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=3
Some more 'me-too' cos are popping up.
http://www.brillouinenergy.com/
They have similar method like ECat but COP is much less, still OU. Their advisory board seems impressive, but I have no way of telling whether these are real people. May be someone in US can find out.
Blacklight power is another one. (No success I guess ?)
It seems many academics and gov people are involved in ECat. It looks promising, fingers crossed.
I do not trust the mainstream for 'fringe' sciences. They are good at whatever is already established and works. Outside that they are just like an ordinary person. The example of DWave is a good one. Mainstreamers, especially media, mocked them as soon as it appeared. It turns out that they really have a quantum computer for sale, after the Lockheed deal it is confirmed.
Hi Omega,
I just try to put some bits of information from here and there together. I have been keeping an eye on Blacklightpower for a long time. They are up to something yet no usable device so far.Mills did put too much effort to develop theoretical explanation over many years, instead of trying to engineer device into market.
In 1995 Piantelli,Focardi et all. put first patent for excess energy from Ni-H. They did put a lot of papers for this phenomena.Then we have also Mills around this subject- exotic fractional states of hydrogen.
No any sign of Rossi at that time.
Suddenly- kabooom! Rossi comes on the scene with poor Focardi behind him.
Rossi seems to be just clever guy that put bits of information from others together and did managed to amplify energy gain enormously.
Since he is not revealing all the information I am trying to crack what's going on.
As I said, it is my guessing, but too many things are coincidentially common in Rossi device.
The major difference from Piantelli and Mills is that Rossi is using specially treated powders of Nickel- and as reaction surface is by orders of magnitude larger- so is the energy output.
In a clever way he just improved design to maximize energy output.
What is really going on inside this reactor- still no final explanation.I could only guess and this is my private opinion.
Anyway, I will do my own research.Two stage vacuum pump, some valves, tubes, Nickel nanopowder, hydrogen bottle- it is not too complicated setup to play with if you have technical skills and some refrigeraton experience.
Regards,
Pix
Quote from: pix on June 26, 2011, 09:59:52 PM
....
Anyway, I will do my own research.Two stage vacuum pump, some valves, tubes, Nickel nanopowder, hydrogen bottle- it is not too complicated setup to play with if you have technical skills and some refrigeraton experience.
Regards,
Pix
Good to hear that. Please keep us updated.
You may get some help from this guy, who has claims of replication :
http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/06/brian-ahern-getting-8-watts-in-low.html
Nickel powder is available at most ceramic craft shops. Hydrogen can be obtained from an electrolysis, however might not get the purest form. A vacuum pump if one does not have can be made from an old compressor from a refridgerator, freon reclaim units use standard compressors. One has a suction line and discharge line.
But this device has no COP》6 (600%). It has not even 100 mark. You can not so simply count: heat produced to electricity consumed. This is not self renewable energy, also it is needed to take into account this energy which was used from fuel (nickiel) and not only this. As in fall of coal and gas, total effectivity only is, when all chemical (potential) energy from 1 kG or 1 m3 taken into precise account is. All this should be proved in constant room temp of 20 deg C, by outer -20 according to polish norm (PN). This is the only objective metod for comparision. For APS it is 《5%, for coal PS 30-33%. But when heating with coal in home it is 15-20% only. Gas heating about 30-35%, for dynamic gas heating with vortex chamber 》50%, newly developed in Poland pulsating method of gas burning (sthg. like V1 engine) nears to 90. All other dates are only Werbung. When don^t trust me, please ask Herr Pix (Mordkowicz) about eff. of his devices.
Quote from: nickle989 on June 27, 2011, 08:46:24 AM
Nickel powder is available at most ceramic craft shops. Hydrogen can be obtained from an electrolysis, however might not get the purest form. A vacuum pump if one does not have can be made from an old compressor from a refridgerator, freon reclaim units use standard compressors. One has a suction line and discharge line.
Hi,
Hydrogen in various bottle sizes is easily obtainable from Linde Gas and others.
You will not make 0,001Pa vacuum with old compressor from refrigerator :-D.Also freon recovery units are not designed for pulling vacuum- I have seen some of them damaged this way.
The only not so expensive equipment for making reasonably good vacuum is 2 stage oil vacuum pump used in refrigeration systems .
Regards,
Pix
Quote from: pix on June 27, 2011, 01:48:29 PM
Hi,
Hydrogen in various bottle sizes is easily obtainable from Linde Gas and others.
You will not make 0,001Pa vacuum with old compressor from refrigerator :-D.Also freon recovery units are not designed for pulling vacuum- I have seen some of them damaged this way.
The only not so expensive equipment for making reasonably good vacuum is 2 stage oil vacuum pump used in refrigeration systems .
Regards,
Pix
Well as a licenced Refridgeration Mechanic for over 26 years I will completely disagree. Vacuum is vacuum period which runs around -29.5 psi when void of moisture, also once there is hydrogen in the chamber there and it is bled of the bottom valve there is no moisture or anything else as hydrogen is the lightest gas, one can also preflush the system with nitrogen .... and freon recovery units are more than capable of pulling vacuum, how do I know ? because I have used them do so ... even before it was law to recover freon I did because it was cheaper. However if you have a freon recovery unit then you would most likely have a good vacuum pump, but if not lots of fridges around with working compressors.
A good 2 stage vaccum pump, depending where you live in the world will set you back 250.00 to 400.00 big ones.
I do not discourage anyone from building a unit. If it looks like one is getting close to achieving results then great do a larger investment.
Hi Nickle989,
In my place 2 stage oil vacuum pump up to 0.2Pa costs about 250-600$ depends from brand name. One stage pump is cheaper, but makes only about 10Pa.
Vacuum pum could work long time, it is designed for such reqime.
Freon recovery units typically have hermetic piston compressor, they are 5 times more expensive and do not pull such low vacuum like rotating vane 2 stage oil pump.I have seen guys use them to pull vacuum instead of recover refrigerant, and left working too long compressor gets damaged.Proper technique is to use recovery unit for recovering refrigerant from the system, then for removing moist use vacuum pump-because this takes longer time. I do not mention triple purging of system,because it is not the topic.
Nickel need to be annealed under as low vacuum as possible, the lower-the better, to release all possible gases trapped from crystalline structure.This had to be repeated.
In one of the interviews Piantelli mentioned that his labolatory help student forgot and left cell under vacuum for a long period of time.When they returned to lab and begin experimenting with that cell and introduce hydrogen- excess heat was enormous.Also at one of forums somebody mentioned that Nickel powder has to be kept under high vacuum and above 240 degC for a week to purify.
So, a good vacuum pump is a must for that stuff.
Regards,
Pix
A new YouTube video is up featuring Nobel Prize winner Dr. Brian Josephson giving a favorable opinion of Dr Rossi's E-Cat device. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8eIhth8Iw8 Also, a company in Greece Defkalion Green Technologies is going to manufacture the modules. Their website is: http://www.defkalion-energy.com/
Cold Fusion is not junk science. It is a suppressed technology. It has been ridiculed and kept under wraps for almost 22 years. Instead of being recognized as the true pioneers they were, the careers of Pons and Fleishman were trashed. MIT fraudently altered its test data in order to claim failure to confirm Pons and Fleishsman's work. The prestigeous journal the American Institute of Physics refused to print the proceedings of its sessions on Low Energy Nuclear Reactions, what is known popularly as cold fusion.
A very interesting article on cold fusion is at
http://the-explorer.com/cold-fusion-the-black-swan-of-energy/2011/3429611.html/
Here is an excerpt:
"By using nickel and ordinary hydrogen, several researchers have significantly increased energy output and reduced costs. In 1992, Thermacore, a U.S. military contractor ran a cell for nearly a year with a 50 Watt output and 3X excess energy. In 1996 Dr. Sergio Focardi of the University of Bologna in Italy described an experiment using nickel & hydrogen that produced an average excess power output of 39 watts continuously for 278 days. There are a dozen competing theories to explain how nuclear reactions can produce so much energy without emitting dangerous radiation. Theories are helpful but not necessary. We still don’t really know how permanent magnets work, yet we use them every day. Practical applications can be developed experimentally, just as Edison developed the light bulb."
>>In 1992, Thermacore, a U.S. military contractor ran a cell for nearly a year with a 50 Watt output and 3X excess energy. <<
Hi,
This Thermacore experiment was based on Dr.Randell Mills hydrino theory, and he was involved.
"Fathers" of this technology are Mills,Piantelli,Focardi.
At that time Rossi was herding a sheeps.Rossi is only clever enterpreneur and he is for the money.Big gains of energy in Rossi E-Cat are only because of orders of magnitude larger reaction area of nickel powders.
I wouldn't be surprised if his "mysterious catalyst" is one from Blackightpower openly publicised elements ;D.
Thermacore,Piantelli cells used small amount of Nickel metal in form of rods or wire, so surface area was much smaller.
Regards,
Pix
Rossi is an interloper. Piantelli was the discoverer of the Ni Hydrogen process. His name should be on the patent instead of Rossi. Rossi bought his way in. Piantelli for some reason was excluded from the deal. He is not even referenced as having done doing prior work.
Pons and Fleishman also should have gotten a Nobel Prize for their discovery of LENR, also known as "cold fusion".
The most compelling argument for a nuclear reaction going on inside the reaction tube is an account of an accident Piantelli had early on with his experiments
"Piantelli didn't know how hot the experiment had gotten before he killed it because the monitor eventually blacked out. However, the metal thermocouples inside the cell melted. This told him that the temperature exceeded 1450 C. Understandably, he was angry because these experiments take a long time to run and he had to abandon it prematurely."
http://newenergytimes.com/v2/news/2008/NET29-8dd54geg.shtml#pf
A chemical reaction would just blow up and make the vessel into a bomb. I can understand why Rossi was so nervous and attentive monitoring the test demonstration now.
My feeling is that Cavitation LENR and Rossi Nickel LENR
are partially two different phenomena. Cavitation LENR
pretty much has to be initiated by the colapse of the
vacuum cavitation bubbles in water. It's difficult to see
how these cavitation bubbles of the appropriate parameters
can produced in the hydrogen gas. I propose that in the
case of Nickel metal, Wigner array dislocation energy is
the initiator. This dislocation energy has to be produced
in the fuel by irradiation inside a standard high flux nuclear
reactor before the Rossi Reactor will run. Both processes
than use the lattice assisted LENR backend process to amplify
phonons to produce heat output. I suspect that the "activation"
of the Nickel metal catalyst is a code word for this "neutron
activation" probably by alpha particles that puts additional
energy into the metal lattice. It is this energy that causes
the Rossi reactor fuel to play out over time. If this is case
the two process have very different economic and implementations
and structures.
The problem with cavitation/electrolytic LENR is that water
that forms the basis of it's TCB operation also limits the hot
side reservoir temperature to 100 degrees C boiling. This severely
limits the delta temperature in the Carnot heat engine cycle
which will be required to produce upgraded energy. In an ICE
engine, which compares to the 400 degree C. Rossi high
side temperature, a Carnot limit of about 33% is expected,
anything less will be a hindrance as excess heat must be
radiated into the environment.
My feeling is that Rossi is not who he claims to be relative to
Defkalian and if he is then the company has got problems.
He seems unaware of SPC statistical process control as used
in modern manufacturing.
:S:MarkSCoffman
Here is a link to Ross's US patent application US 20110005506
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20110005506.pdf
It is just marginally more informative than his Italian patent. He does mention Piantelli in the Background section. He also mentions using boron in the invention. I would speculate his catalyst is similar to the one outlined here:
http://www.ysxbcn.com/icnfm2007/part2B/s1002.pdf
The catalyst was most likely heated in hydrogen rather than nitrogen. The catalyst decomposes at high temperature, at least in nitrogen.
Piantelli was also proprietary concerning the surface treatment of the nickel rods used in his experiments. Everyone wants to cash in on the energy bonanza.
As far as getting useful information from the patent applications, they are pretty much useless.
Rossi has a few skeletons in his closet. He failed to produce working TEG modules for a customer named CTC in Johnstown, PA USA. This was through Leonardo Technologies Incorporated, another of his companies. The failed TEG modules could be attributed to mismanagement or bad luck, the actions discussed in the second link can't.
www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg38020.html
Rossi and Focardi LENR Device: Reality or Scam?
http://newenergytimes.com/v2/news/2011/36/3622rf-realityorscam.shtml
According to the link, in 1995, Rossi was jailed for conspiracy to engage in tax fraud for his involvement in a business that was trading precious materials between Switzerland and Italy.
Piantelli really did burn up a nickel rod, so the technology itself is real enough.
http://newenergytimes.com/v2/news/2011/36/36img/Piantelli-Melted%20Cathode-SBK.JPG
Quote from: Earthrise on July 06, 2011, 11:13:24 AM
According to the link, in 1995, Rossi was jailed for conspiracy to engage in tax fraud for his involvement in a business that was trading precious materials between Switzerland and Italy.
Two tons of gold in an armored car! Might as well do it big.
Quote from: mscoffman on July 05, 2011, 12:39:14 PM
My feeling is that Cavitation LENR and Rossi Nickel LENR
are partially two different phenomena. Cavitation LENR
pretty much has to be initiated by the colapse of the
vacuum cavitation bubbles in water. It's difficult to see
how these cavitation bubbles of the appropriate parameters
can produced in the hydrogen gas. I propose that in the
case of Nickel metal, Wigner array dislocation energy is
the initiator. This dislocation energy has to be produced
in the fuel by irradiation inside a standard high flux nuclear
reactor before the Rossi Reactor will run. Both processes
than use the lattice assisted LENR backend process to amplify
phonons to produce heat output. I suspect that the "activation"
of the Nickel metal catalyst is a code word for this "neutron
activation" probably by alpha particles that puts additional
energy into the metal lattice. It is this energy that causes
the Rossi reactor fuel to play out over time. If this is case
the two process have very different economic and implementations
and structures.
The problem with cavitation/electrolytic LENR is that water
that forms the basis of it's TCB operation also limits the hot
side reservoir temperature to 100 degrees C boiling. This severely
limits the delta temperature in the Carnot heat engine cycle
which will be required to produce upgraded energy. In an ICE
engine, which compares to the 400 degree C. Rossi high
side temperature, a Carnot limit of about 33% is expected,
anything less will be a hindrance as excess heat must be
radiated into the environment.
My feeling is that Rossi is not who he claims to be relative to
Defkalian and if he is then the company has got problems.
He seems unaware of SPC statistical process control as used
in modern manufacturing.
:S:MarkSCoffman
The "E CAT"atalyst in my opinion is nothing more then Raney Nickel, A very well known catalyst in hydrogenation reactions.
Raney nickel is "sponge metal nickel"
The stated transmutations of Ni to Cu may be related to contamination by leaching of the copper containment vessel.
Sorry, didn't mean to place this on you personalty, but I didn't know where to place this???
Quote from: Earthrise on July 04, 2011, 12:14:03 PM
Rossi is an interloper. Piantelli was the discoverer of the Ni Hydrogen process. His name should be on the patent instead of Rossi. Rossi bought his way in. Piantelli for some reason was excluded from the deal. He is not even referenced as having done doing prior work.
Pons and Fleishman also should have gotten a Nobel Prize for their discovery of LENR, also known as "cold fusion".
The most compelling argument for a nuclear reaction going on inside the reaction tube is an account of an accident Piantelli had early on with his experiments
"Piantelli didn't know how hot the experiment had gotten before he killed it because the monitor eventually blacked out. However, the metal thermocouples inside the cell melted. This told him that the temperature exceeded 1450 C. Understandably, he was angry because these experiments take a long time to run and he had to abandon it prematurely."
http://newenergytimes.com/v2/news/2008/NET29-8dd54geg.shtml#pf
A chemical reaction would just blow up and make the vessel into a bomb. I can understand why Rossi was so nervous and attentive monitoring the test demonstration now.
Yes, the "cold fusion" experiments are very dangerous. The explosions in the glass vessels of the heavy water electrolysis experiments prove that.
Piantelli's nickel rod experiment took off. If his vessel had burned through, there would have been a fire and a hydrogen explosion which could have killed him and burned down his lab.
It is my opinion that the devices built by Piantelli and later by Rossi are build much too lightly. The vessel could easily rupture, especially if power is being produced. The power level in Rossi's second experiment was scaled back, according to him. because of safety reasons. The experiments shouldn't have been conducted on a bench top. For safety reasons,they should be behind a blast shield.
In his US patent application, Rossi shows two electron microprobe scans of his powdered nickel catalyst. The element zinc shows up in the scans. Zinc may be a reaction product from the LENR, it could be a contaminant, or it could be from the nickel powder having been formed using nickel chloride and zinc dust. Raney nickel is still more likely his source.
I am awaiting the results of the Defkalion build of Rossi's 1 Megawatt power system. I hope he didn't bite off more than he can chew. A 100 KW intermediate build would have been more conservative and also much more doable. Only ten modules to control and worry about.
deleted
Quote from: TEKTRON on July 07, 2011, 01:50:34 AM
The "E CAT"atalyst in my opinion is nothing more then Raney Nickel, A very well known catalyst in hydrogenation reactions.
Raney nickel is "sponge metal nickel"
The stated transmutations of Ni to Cu may be related to contamination by leaching of the copper containment vessel.
Sorry, didn't mean to place this on you personalty, but I didn't know where to place this???
Hi!
Nickel Metal Catalyst is pyrophoric - meaning it can ignite on contact
with oxygen in the air. I just can't see surface roughness as being
sufficient to cause that ability. From my understanding Raney process
means amalgamating two metals together then dissolving away the
non-nickel component metal with acid. This creates kind of a fractal
nanoscopic roughness - I can see why you would want that in a
Catalyst, just not that would take things to ignition. It seems
as if energy is increased some other way.
As for migration of copper - I thought of that too - interestingly
only the one isotope of natural copper shows up.
But to the idea of activation, it may explain the transmuted
metal if a lot of irradiation flux is required...They simply
irradiated it until 1/3 of the material is transmuted.
If the reactor is irradiated from inside with a probe
it might make the shielding on Rossi's reactor a necessity
to keep the outside of the reactor from becoming radioactive
during the process also, the Boron might be explained as a
converter target. I'm not really a studied physicist.
Also I feel I have some evidence. I have difficulty believing
that "raw" nickel metal in a hydrogen atmosphere can LENR.
As folks would have seen it. (hydrogen->metal for use as fuel tanks etc.)
But I think there is evidence that an "activated" platinum
filament does it's LENR thing when exposed to hydrogen.
Time will tell...
I just don't like Rossi making our understanding more difficult
then it already is.
We are all be just guessing about the composition of the Piantelli device's catalyst. I am more and more preferring to call the device by the name of the actual inventor. We will be continuing to guess even after the device as proffered by Rossi ever goes to market.
Rossi intends on including a self destruct mechanism to the device to stop anyone from reverse engineering it.
All this depends on Rossi and Defkalion actually coughing up a working device. As I have mentioned earlier in the thread, Rossi wasn't able to deliver working Thermoelectric Generator modules to a US client. We will all see soon. It will be an interesting sideshow, even if nothing comes of it.
Of course, Rossi imay not be the only player in the game. On May 28, 2008, Blacklight Power,Inc. announced that they have a 50 kW prototype ready to take commercial. That was over three years ago. Where is it? More vapor and smoke.
I was looking at the video from Blacklight showing the duplication of their process in Rowan University. The analysis of the experiment were that 1 Megajoule of excess power was produced. Being the devil's advocate and trying to show that the heat is from the formation of nickel hydride:
The enthalpy from the chemical formation of nickel and hydrogen to nickel hydride is -8790 joule/mol. It would require forming 6.9 kg of nickel hydride to produce 1 Megajoule of energy. There was only 1 kg of nickel powder present in the vessel. There isn't enough catalyst to produce that much energy.
Rossi used 50 grams of catalyst. That would produce 7.49 Kilojoules of energy if it were all converted to nickel hydride. At 14 Kw output power, it would have powered the device for about 1/2 of a second.
I would direct your attention to the Widom-Larson Theory http://www.i-sis.org.uk/Widom-Larsen.php
It the theory has any validity in accurately describing what is going on in the Nickel Hydrogen reactor, it would suggest that a light element needs to be present in the nickel matrix.
The theory describes lithium thermal neutron capture. Boron with its larger cross section works better.
Has anybody real dates for Rossi devices? On official site it is not to find.
I don^t know if You know already, but Hyperion had done split with Possi. You can not even to register on they forum as new member. Possi says that he wil be doing his work further in States. But from this what write serious people, it works not. Nobody gives true dates. Such is a fall with Bolotov and Pix (Mordkowicz) invention on similar principle. It is only OU for limited time, as energy acumulated in is not dispersed. Same thing is with stable magnets also. In resume, it is not cheap, can only in limited possibilities, when perfected, to be used. For widespread use it all has no chance. tov and Pix (Mordkowicz) invention on similar principle. It is only OU for limited time, as energy acumulated in is not dispersed. Same thing is with stable magnets also. In resume, it is not cheap, can only in limited possibilities, when perfected, to be used. For widespread use it all has no chance.