@All,
This is a link to 2 builds that I am doing. One I am patenting as it is my own invention.
It is nice having a place where I can post my work without someone trying to take it over.
And Stephen will need to ban me since I do not like AB Hammer and his friends. Something about posting
no open work that is intended to work perpetually.
Besides, I know what I was doing wrong with Bessler's wheel and am about a 1/4 or 1/3 of the way to having it built.
Almost cut off 3 fingers working on it so that slowed things down. It does take 2 hands and a pay check to build.
And the 2nd link is to the small shop I'm working in. It'll do for what I'm doing.
And since I am building at my expense, I guess people like AB Hammer who can only show pictures of his armor and non-working wheels can be jealous. There is a museum for non working devices, my work will not be found there.
And TK, it doesn't matter who you are, you don't know the first thing about engineering. If you did, you would be all over me like a dog in heat. I think that's all you know :-)
ttp://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f9/besslers-wheel-58361/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1OPf_KPXbQ
I know more about engineering than you will ever learn, Johnny boy troll. I doubt that you can even do any basic calculus at all.
You've been making these same kinds of whining posts for years. You can't do this, you can't do that, you're broke, your family is against you, you have no place to work or post. Boo hoo hoo, my heart bleeds for you. I can't sleep for all the tiny violins playing sad music for you.
Good luck trying to patent something that you have already disclosed on the internet.
Quote from: j_lindgaard1 on January 20, 2014, 12:18:23 PM
@All,
This is a link to 2 builds that I am doing. One I am patenting as it is my own invention.
It is nice having a place where I can post my work without someone trying to take it over.
And Stephen will need to ban me since I do not like AB Hammer and his friends. Something about posting
no open work that is intended to work perpetually.
Besides, I know what I was doing wrong with Bessler's wheel and am about a 1/4 or 1/3 of the way to having it built.
Almost cut off 3 fingers working on it so that slowed things down. It does take 2 hands and a pay check to build.
And the 2nd link is to the small shop I'm working in. It'll do for what I'm doing.
And since I am building at my expense, I guess people like AB Hammer who can only show pictures of his armor and non-working wheels can be jealous. There is a museum for non working devices, my work will not be found there.
And TK, it doesn't matter who you are, you don't know the first thing about engineering. If you did, you would be all over me like a dog in heat. I think that's all you know :-)
ttp://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f9/besslers-wheel-58361/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1OPf_KPXbQ
j_lindgaard1 I am sorry you have had to battle with cancer. The couple of pieces in the pictures and video look like works of love.
The problem with perpetually unbalanced wheels is that gravity persistently shows itself to be a conservative force. No matter how anyone designs a gravity machine, over the course of one full cycle everything in the machine will have traversed a closed path sometime over the course of that cycle. That's up the stairs down the stairs so to speak for each and everything in the machine. That means that the net energy available to the machine over that full cycle adds to zero.
Hey I've got a great idea.
Why don't we ALL share our medical and family and financial issues, so that people can give us lots of sympathy and understand why we aren't fulfilling our dreams?
Cancer? Heart Disease? Amputations due to accidents with tools? Family disasters? Bankruptcy, Flood, fire, earthquake! Only the fully healthy may contribute; all others can use disease, deformity and disability as an excuse for our projects not working.
Would you like to hear a list of MY medical, financial, and other problems that are preventing me from producing a working Bessler wheel? No?
I didn't think so.
I also know you don't build anything yet harass me for what I work on.
It's my hobby and I plan on enjoying it. Why I'll continue my work in a forum where people do build. They understand it takes time. ;)
edited to add; @All, almost cut off 3 fingers working through my medical problems. For people that have no serious health concerns, and no builds to show, expect what TK and his friends post.
Quote from: j_lindgaard1 on January 21, 2014, 05:51:34 AM
I also know you don't build anything
I don't build anything? What a joker you are, Jimbo! You are showing your ignorance again. Here are just a few of the things I build and document:
http://www.youtube.com/user/TinselKoala/videos
Quote
yet harass me for what I work on.
I'm pointing out that you have _NEVER_ shown anything interesting and in fact... I remember your silly Heron's Fountain claims, which you could not support with facts or data. Nobody is harassing you for what you "work" on.... just for your whining and your excuses.
Quote
It's my hobby and I plan on enjoying it. Why I'll continue my work in a forum where people do build. They understand it takes time. ;)
edited to add; @All, almost cut off 3 fingers working through my medical problems.
Maybe you would be better off if you didn't try to operate power tools while you are on medication.
Quote
For people that have no serious health concerns, and no builds to show, expect what TK and his friends post.
Does that last sentence even make any sense?
Quote from: MarkE on January 21, 2014, 03:25:14 AM
j_lindgaard1 I am sorry you have had to battle with cancer. The couple of pieces in the pictures and video look like works of love.
The problem with perpetually unbalanced wheels is that gravity persistently shows itself to be a conservative force. No matter how anyone designs a gravity machine, over the course of one full cycle everything in the machine will have traversed a closed path sometime over the course of that cycle. That's up the stairs down the stairs so to speak for each and everything in the machine. That means that the net energy available to the machine over that full cycle adds to zero.
Thanks Mark.
It took me a while to realize specifically what Bessler knew. Lack of cooperation from other forum members made things more difficult than necessary.
With 2 opposing bellows, work is measured by how much a bellow opens and the mass of the water moving.
The transverse (lateral) movement of the water takes time. And if the orifice is too small, then it creates an obstacle.
With a sufficient opening between bellows, water will flow rather quickly. There is more to it than that but to understand a new concept and realize it's potential can take a little time to think it over.
Jim
Quote from: j_lindgaard1 on January 21, 2014, 03:28:25 PM
Thanks Mark.
It took me a while to realize specifically what Bessler knew. Lack of cooperation from other forum members made things more difficult than necessary.
With 2 opposing bellows, work is measured by how much a bellow opens and the mass of the water moving.
The transverse (lateral) movement of the water takes time. And if the orifice is too small, then it creates an obstacle.
With a sufficient opening between bellows, water will flow rather quickly. There is more to it than that but to understand a new concept and realize it's potential can take a little time to think it over.
Jim
Jim, I am glad that you are enjoying your efforts.
I try to do what I can to keep analysis simple. When it comes to cyclical machines seeing what happens to each significant piece in one complete cycle is useful. It avoids a lot of mucking around that can lead to misinterpretations and mistakes. I liken it to a scavenger hunt where we skip all the steps in the middle. All that matters from an energy perspective is where we start and where we end each cycle. In the case of overbalanced wheels, over one complete cycle everything ends up back where it started. Under the assumption that gravity is indeed a conservative field as our current understanding of science asserts it is, that means that there is zero net energy we can extract each cycle. Now, if one isn't quite so sure that gravity is a conservative field there are at least two options one can take: Build up an entire machine to see if one can make a self-running apparatus, or try and figure out a condition under which gravity might not be conservative, and then test under those conditions to see whether gravity stubbornly remains conservative or not.
Quote from: MarkE on January 21, 2014, 06:37:37 PM
Jim, I am glad that you are enjoying your efforts.
I try to do what I can to keep analysis simple. When it comes to cyclical machines seeing what happens to each significant piece in one complete cycle is useful. It avoids a lot of mucking around that can lead to misinterpretations and mistakes. I liken it to a scavenger hunt where we skip all the steps in the middle. All that matters from an energy perspective is where we start and where we end each cycle. In the case of overbalanced wheels, over one complete cycle everything ends up back where it started. Under the assumption that gravity is indeed a conservative field as our current understanding of science asserts it is, that means that there is zero net energy we can extract each cycle. Now, if one isn't quite so sure that gravity is a conservative field there are at least two options one can take: Build up an entire machine to see if one can make a self-running apparatus, or try and figure out a condition under which gravity might not be conservative, and then test under those conditions to see whether gravity stubbornly remains conservative or not.
Mark,
Many years ago, I use to do simple tests for conservation of momentum. And as you mentioned, when something moves, it needs to be moved to it's original position after every cycle. Bessler's wheel does this.
You see, I have taken much criticism for how much math I employed. A couple of people just hated it. But it does show where potential exists. And with what I am working on, it comes to life. I tend to think of an over balanced wheel as a differential equation.
It is as Bessler said, there is a motion to be found in his drawings.
With Mt 27, the 2 opposing levers will have only one weight out of balance. The weight that is 90 degrees to the bellows is considered in balance. And if the bellow on top opens 2 inches and the wheel is 40 inches in diameter, the center of mass for the shifting water will move about 24 inches.
That's 12 inches of over balance. What needs to be considered now is the total mass of the water. If it is 4 lbs., then 8 inch lbs. of force as a minimum is needed to open the bellow. And a 1 lb. weight using leverage can have 2 lbs. of force which means the weight needs to drop 5 inches.
This leaves you with a net gain. It will work. It took me 6 months to realize Bessler used water then another year or 2 to figure out precisely how he did it.
Needless to say, a few people pretty much hate me for sticking with it and realizing Bessler's wheel. Some people's credibility is based on Bessler's wheel not becoming known.
BTW, I will be building Mt 127 on the way to a 4 weighted wheel.
Jim
Jim, if we enforce First Principles and examine carefully we will find that there is no overbalance over the course of a complete machine cycle.
Enjoy the project anyway. The woodwork you have done looks very nice to me.
Quote from: MarkE on January 21, 2014, 07:31:18 PM
Jim, if we enforce First Principles and examine carefully we will find that there is no overbalance over the course of a complete machine cycle.
Enjoy the project anyway. The woodwork you have done looks very nice to me.
May not need to build it. I sent a letter to the editor of a local newspaper explaining how photosynthesis works.
The reason this matters is that the CO2 emissions from coal fired power plants could be reduced to safe levels which would allow for the slowing or even stopping of Global Warming.
It is interesting that a plant can produce O2 from water and carbon dioxide while man and his technology can not replicate it.
I guess nobody ever took the time to understand the process. I did take the time to explain what has been missed. I am hopeful they will print it so it can be reviewed and tried.
If so, I guess I'd be a little bit ahead of everybody.
Jim
Quote from: MarkE on January 21, 2014, 07:31:18 PM
Jim, if we enforce First Principles and examine carefully we will find that there is no overbalance over the course of a complete machine cycle.
Enjoy the project anyway. The woodwork you have done looks very nice to me.
Mark,
Nothing personal, but I haven't been enjoying this. In Bessler wheel, I got banned because basically it was what 2 people wanted.
While others wanted to see me build it, ab hammer and jim_mich won out because they don't build.
And with what I have worked through which includes almost losing my job because of the hardship of my medical condition, this build has been more about survival than enjoying anything.
And yet you see what tinselkoala posts when last year I did not manage to work enough hours to qualify for FMLA when I almost cut my fingers off. That was another 2 1/2 months of missed work on top of the 1 1/4 years I had missed out of the previous 4 while having 6 surgeries. And yet, ab hammer and tinselkoala find fault with me for building when I am broke.
Kind of why I like America. I am also 1/2 deaf in one ear from serving in the military yet have to listen to them whine about what ? What I'm working on and nothing else.
ab hammer even says that I have to let him in on what I am working on where he will be the boss of me. Still, will be my money and my work but he just wants the credit.
There has been nothing enjoyable about this but then Bessler was only 1/2 German and was arrested for being a fraud.
And incase you don't care, I have been badly screwed because of my hearing loss. And unike ab hammer who sits home and draws his disability check and does nothing, I work and I study. ab hammer does not care to open a book but is considered to be an engineer with no schooling or actual experience. I guess that's the internet.
Bye
Jim, I have offered you my sympathies for your hardships. I have encouraged your efforts that you find rewarding. I do not speak for anyone else here or anywhere else, nor does anyone else speak for me. If you have or have had personal conflicts with other people, that is between you and them to work out.
I have explained why no overbalanced wheel has ever worked, and why no overbalanced wheel can ever work. The inner details and complexity of any particular device are irrelevant: It's the conservative nature of gravity that clobbers these devices every time. Whether I would like to or not, I cannot change nature.
Good luck with your efforts.
Quote from: MarkE on January 22, 2014, 08:01:42 AM
Jim, I have offered you my sympathies for your hardships. I have encouraged your efforts that you find rewarding. I do not speak for anyone else here or anywhere else, nor does anyone else speak for me. If you have or have had personal conflicts with other people, that is between you and them to work out.
I have explained why no overbalanced wheel has ever worked, and why no overbalanced wheel can ever work. The inner details and complexity of any particular device are irrelevant: It's the conservative nature of gravity that clobbers these devices every time. Whether I would like to or not, I cannot change nature.
Good luck with your efforts.
Mark,
You gave no reason other than to say it won't work for some obscure reason. I am not sure how you can be so sure of your reply without having taken any time to consider the design. There is a specific reason why I like it. Besides, gravity is not any more conservative than any other form of energy.
You said that levers can't move back to their original position after every cycle. In this drawing of Bessler's, he shows where you are wrong. After every rotation, the levers will be in position to perform work. And since you are not alone in missing the obvious, as drawn, the wheel is balanced, no over or under balance. It simply would not move.
Yet if when a lever swung away from center, the work it does could maintain an over balance. And just think, for over 300 years, everyone who has looked at these drawings have missed some very obvious points that Bessler was trying to get across.
Jim
edited to add; Mark, if 1 lb. weights are on levers 12 inches long, that is either 12 in. lbs. or 1 ft. lb. of force. And when a weight is moving upwards, it is negative. Like wise, when a weight is moving downwards, it is positive.
If we had the 2 forces together we have -1 ft. lb. + 1 ft. lb. = 0 or no force because they cancel each other out.
Bessler said his weights worked in pairs so while accepted math yields no force, Bessler realized 2 ft. lbs. of force. And this is within a balanced system. Could be why they call it Free Energy. But like I said, in the last 300 years, many more people than yourself have missed where Bessler applied math and mechanics differently than others.
Jim, I'm sorry if I did not make myself clear.
No gravity / overbalanced wheel can possibly work because:
1) Gravity is a conservative field. If a mass travels over an arbitrary path from a starting point back to that same point no gravitational energy is gained or lost.
2) All gravity wheels operate cyclically. Over the course of a complete cycle, each and every element of the machine follows some path that ends up back where it started at the end of the cycle.
3) All real machines have real energy losses, such as friction.
1) Removes the need to perform detailed analysis of the path that any element of a proposed over balanced wheel might follow. Levers, cogs, balls, fluids, magnets can move in arbitrarily complex ways, but as long as any element eventually ends up back where it started, there is no gravitational energy that can be extracted by that element's travels.
2) Establishes that all elements of a gravity / overbalanced wheel eventually end up back where they started at the end of a cycle. The machine might be designed so that a cycle is one, a few, or many rotations of the wheel proper, but eventually anything and everything ends up back at the identical starting point.
1) + 2) taken together mean that there is no energy that can be extracted from a gravity / overbalanced wheel cycle to cycle independent of the configuration or complexity of the design.
1) + 2) + 3) taken together mean that no gravity / overbalanced wheel machine can self-sustain.
I see that you contend that "gravity is no more conservative than any other form of energy". Your statement is an extraordinary claim against First Principles. It is up to you to show an example where the First Law of Thermodynamics can be shown to be false. If you can achieve such an amazing feat you will change physics as we currently know it forever.
You'll never convince Mark that gravities not conservative, lindgaard1, so you'll do best to simply ignore him. 8)
Quote from: Grimer on January 22, 2014, 09:33:24 AM
You'll never convince Mark that gravities not conservative, lindgaard1, so you'll do best to simply ignore him. 8)
Grimer, extraordinary claims require compelling evidence. If you, or Jim, or anyone else have compelling evidence that shows that gravity is not conservative, then by all means please show that evidence.
Quote from: MarkE on January 22, 2014, 09:48:34 AM
Grimer, extraordinary claims require compelling evidence. If you, or Jim, or anyone else have compelling evidence that shows that gravity is not conservative, then by all means please show that evidence.
If RAR works, as I believe it will, then you'll have the evidence soon enough.
Quote from: Grimer on January 22, 2014, 09:33:24 AM
You'll never convince Mark that gravities not conservative, lindgaard1, so you'll do best to simply ignore him. 8)
Thanks Grimer :)
Quote from: MarkE on January 22, 2014, 08:56:54 AM
Jim, I'm sorry if I did not make myself clear.
No gravity / overbalanced wheel can possibly work because:
1) Gravity is a conservative field. If a mass travels over an arbitrary path from a starting point back to that same point no gravitational energy is gained or lost.
2) All gravity wheels operate cyclically. Over the course of a complete cycle, each and every element of the machine follows some path that ends up back where it started at the end of the cycle.
3) All real machines have real energy losses, such as friction.
1) Removes the need to perform detailed analysis of the path that any element of a proposed over balanced wheel might follow. Levers, cogs, balls, fluids, magnets can move in arbitrarily complex ways, but as long as any element eventually ends up back where it started, there is no gravitational energy that can be extracted by that element's travels.
2) Establishes that all elements of a gravity / overbalanced wheel eventually end up back where they started at the end of a cycle. The machine might be designed so that a cycle is one, a few, or many rotations of the wheel proper, but eventually anything and everything ends up back at the identical starting point.
1) + 2) taken together mean that there is no energy that can be extracted from a gravity / overbalanced wheel cycle to cycle independent of the configuration or complexity of the design.
1) + 2) + 3) taken together mean that no gravity / overbalanced wheel machine can self-sustain.
I see that you contend that "gravity is no more conservative than any other form of energy". Your statement is an extraordinary claim against First Principles. It is up to you to show an example where the First Law of Thermodynamics can be shown to be false. If you can achieve such an amazing feat you will change physics as we currently know it forever.
Mark,
>> It is up to you to show an example where the First Law of Thermodynamics can be shown to be false. If you can achieve such an amazing feat <<
Again, you missed the obvious. It states isolated system. Most systems, an example is about any mechanical system can be opened when ever the engineer who designs it wishes it to be so. By adding a heat exchanger, they just opened the system while controlling it's exposure.
Nuclear power plants have cooling towers which control heat build up from the fission process. By doing so, they control the entropy suffered from such a process by controlling it by opening it to an opposing potential, cold water. This prevents a meltdown like what happened at Chernobyl in the Ukraine when the fission process generated to much heat. I think they put the rods back in too quickly which caused the meltdown. They did not know at that time that the hot rods turned their energy inward when they were no longer exposed. They learned something new that has changed how such incidents are contained. If they would have slowly reinserted the rods, then their fission process would have slowly abated allowing the rods to cool.
This kind of goes to a new principle in physics that I have realized, it's one that allows for photosynthesis to work. No scientist has yet realized the behavior that allows CO2 + H2O > CH2O + O2. They just don't know how to do that unless it is on paper.
I plan on getting an Organic Chemist to demonstrate a process that can make that happen. And if it works the way I believe it does, then Global Warming could be either slowed or stopped.
Of course, for that to happen would mean that engineers and scientists would need to work together to design an industrial process that mimics nature. Then and possibly only then CO2 emissions from coal fired power plants can be reduced to safe for the environment levels.
And would you like to know the kicker ? I'd have to keep my present job if I want to eat. Realizing a new principle does not put money in someone's pocket.
edited to correct grammar somewhat
Quote from: j_lindgaard1 on January 22, 2014, 10:35:49 AM
Mark,
>> It is up to you to show an example where the First Law of Thermodynamics can be shown to be false. If you can achieve such an amazing feat <<
Again, you missed the obvious. It states isolated system. Most systems, an example is about any mechanical system can be opened when ever the engineer who designs it wishes it to be so. By adding a heat exchanger, they just opened the system while controlling it's exposure.
Nuclear power plants have cooling towers which control heat build up from the fission process. By doing so, they control the entropy suffered from such a process by controlling it by opening it to an opposing potential, cold water. This prevents a meltdown like what happened at Chernobyl in the Ukraine when the fission process generated to much heat. I think they put the rods back in too quickly which caused the meltdown. They did not know at that time that the hot rods turned their energy inward when they were no longer exposed. They learned something new that has changed how such incidents are contained. If they would have slowly reinserted the rods, then their fission process would have slowly abated allowing the rods to cool.
This kind of goes to a new principle in physics that I have realized, it's one that allows for photosynthesis to work. No scientist has yet realized the behavior that allows CO2 + H2O > CH2O + O2. They just don't know how to do that unless it is on paper.
I plan on getting an Organic Chemist to demonstrate a process that can make that happen. And if it works the way I believe it does, then Global Warming could be either slowed or stopped.
Of course, for that to happen would mean that engineers and scientists would need to work together to design an industrial process that mimics nature. Then and possibly only then CO2 emissions from coal fired power plants can be reduced to safe for the environment levels.
And would you like to know the kicker ? I'd have to keep my present job if I want to eat. Realizing a new principle does not put money in someone's pocket.
edited to correct grammar somewhat
Jim you objected that I did not spell out in sufficient detail why it is that a gravity / over balanced wheel can work. I've now done that for you in terms of conventional science. That leaves us down to your contention that energy/matter is not conserved. CoE is a First Principle. You've got an incredible mountain to climb in order to overcome CoE.
Your argument seems to be that all one needs to do is "open the system". Sure, provide the needed energy and you can spin a wheel. Gravity won't be supplying that energy.
Quote from: MarkE on January 22, 2014, 09:48:34 AM
Grimer, extraordinary claims require compelling evidence. If you, or Jim, or anyone else have compelling evidence that shows that gravity is not conservative, then by all means please show that evidence.
Mark,
>> extraordinary claims require compelling evidence <<
It seems like you need to be in control. Nobody needs to prove anything to you.
A forum is for discussing ideas. Closed minded people are really in the wrong place.
After all, seeing a perpetual wheel work would not let you understand why, you would only know that it does.
You know, like Thermodynamics. What constitutes an isolated system ? That would depend on your frame of reference.
Take you for instance, you are an isolated system. You can not consider a perspective different than your own.
It's people like you who make things difficult for everybody else, you really contribute nothing.
Jim
edited to add a pic of where I'm at. I'll be starting the build over because this is a learning process. As a result, it requires more
than having an access to a computer terminal and demonstrating I forgot to stay awake in school.
What this will do is let me see it in action. Using vacuum to pump water from wells has been done for over a century so what I'll be demonstrating is an old way of doing things. Of course, with Bessler, he might've been first with the vacuum pump, not sure of the origin of when first use was known.
Quote from: j_lindgaard1 on January 22, 2014, 12:22:50 PM
Mark,
>> extraordinary claims require compelling evidence <<
It seems like you need to be in control. Nobody needs to prove anything to you.
A forum is for discussing ideas. Closed minded people are really in the wrong place.
After all, seeing a perpetual wheel work would not let you understand why, you would only know that it does.
You know, like Thermodynamics. What constitutes an isolated system ? That would depend on your frame of reference.
Take you for instance, you are an isolated system. You can not consider a perspective different than your own.
It's people like you who make things difficult for everybody else, you really contribute nothing.
Jim
edited to add a pic of where I'm at. I'll be starting the build over because this is a learning process. As a result, it requires more
than having an access to a computer terminal and demonstrating I forgot to stay awake in school.
What this will do is let me see it in action. Using vacuum to pump water from wells has been done for over a century so what I'll be demonstrating is an old way of doing things. Of course, with Bessler, he might've been first with the vacuum pump, not sure of the origin of when first use was known.
Jim, ideas are all fine and well. In fact ideas are great. Determining what ideas can be realized and which are flights of fancy is a matter of evidence. The more extraordinary the claim the more compelling the required evidence must be in order to convince any rational person.
Perpetual wheels don't work and never have. That is the observed fact. If someone wishes to believe that they are possible, they are free to travel down that road. If they expect rational people to follow, then they need commensurate evidence of their idea.
It's not a personal thing. It's not a control thing. It's just nature.
Good luck with your work. Suction pump methods go back at least to the ancient Egyptians.
Quote from: j_lindgaard1 on January 22, 2014, 12:22:50 PM
Mark,
>> extraordinary claims require compelling evidence <<
It seems like you need to be in control. Nobody needs to prove anything to you.
A forum is for discussing ideas. Closed minded people are really in the wrong place.
After all, seeing a perpetual wheel work would not let you understand why, you would only know that it does.
You know, like Thermodynamics. What constitutes an isolated system ? That would depend on your frame of reference.
Take you for instance, you are an isolated system. You can not consider a perspective different than your own.
It's people like you who make things difficult for everybody else, you really contribute nothing.
Jim
I couldn't have put it better myself, Jim.
To be absolutely honest, I couldn't have put it as well. ;D
The reason the Keenie and Bob's uncle's devices worked (and doubtless Bessler's too) is that they offloaded half the 3rd derivative energy to outside the system, i.e. the earth, like the sling-shot or gravity assist. This leaves the other half available for doing useful work.
In the RAR you can see the offload device in the outboards weights which are laid on the floor during part of the cycle. Keenie achieves the same effect with a ratchet and pinion on a leyshaft.
Quote from: MarkE on January 22, 2014, 01:29:29 PM
Jim, ideas are all fine and well. In fact ideas are great. Determining what ideas can be realized and which are flights of fancy is a matter of evidence. The more extraordinary the claim the more compelling the required evidence must be in order to convince any rational person.
Perpetual wheels don't work and never have. That is the observed fact. If someone wishes to believe that they are possible, they are free to travel down that road. If they expect rational people to follow, then they need commensurate evidence of their idea.
It's not a personal thing. It's not a control thing. It's just nature.
Good luck with your work. Suction pump methods go back at least to the ancient Egyptians.
Mark,
Considering that you openly ignore what has been engineered, it is a control thing. Why ? It has to be proven to you on your terms.
With something like CO2 + H2O > CH2O + O2 happens in nature. The science you keep referring to can not explain photosynthesis. Why ?
What you fail to understand is that physics is according to the natural order of things. Engineering is not physics even though physics sometimes is used to explain engineering.
As to your >> The more extraordinary the claim the more compelling the required evidence must be in order to convince any rational person. <<
The uneducated accept what they do not understand. Consider mag lev trains. They float on air. They are accepted by people who do not understand electromagnetic theory. A rational person will accept something without extraordinary proof, it happens all of the time.
A rational person knows they don't need everything proven to them. Also, there are physicists who believe perpetual motion may be possible. The link is to a video of a machine that operates perpetually. While technically it is a SMOT device, it proves critics like you wrong.
By the way, Stefan has observed this in person so it is what it claims to be. And as such goes, perpetual motion does not say peform work but merely a system that continuously functions. I hope you enjoy choking on all of your erroneous posts. After all, it will only take a simple demonstration being repeated of how photosynthesis happens. No extraordinary proof, just a basic demonstration of an as yet undiscovered process that is known to happen which allows you to live.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlx2PgESXhs
edited to add; Mark, you need to remember something even if it's only one thing. If I am right, then it will give me a chance to try and make known what might help to slow Global Warming. I think Global Warming is much more of a concern than your opinion.
It requires more than just knowing what allows for photosynthesis. Chances are the same engineering principle would need to be applied to the desalination of sea water. If it works, it could make desalinated water about as cheap as regular tap water.
And to throw some numbers at you. In the next 50 years, the U.S. population is expected to grow by more than 100 million people while fresh water supplies are dwindling. The world wide population is expected to blossom from the 7 billion of today to more than 9 1/2 billion people.
Solutions are needed, not people who say I want to be a road block. If you read my other thread, you'll see that I have learned while others just kept posting like yourself. After all these years, they're still saying the same things while I think I can make a difference because of what I have learned from pursuing perpetual motion and Free Energy principles. Nobody learns from doing nothing.
Grimer if you think that know principles that would make a working gravity wheel possible, then just publish your hypothesis and your ideas can be tested. If you are correct, you can prepare your speech for the Nobel Prize that you would surely earn with such a physics changing discovery.
Quote from: j_lindgaard1 on January 22, 2014, 02:51:04 PM
Mark,
Considering that you openly ignore what has been engineered, it is a control thing. Why ? It has to be proven to you on your terms.
With something like CO2 + H2O > CH2O + O2 happens in nature. The science you keep referring to can not explain photosynthesis. Why ?
What you fail to understand is that physics is according to the natural order of things. Engineering is not physics even though physics sometimes is used to explain engineering.
As to your >> The more extraordinary the claim the more compelling the required evidence must be in order to convince any rational person. <<
The uneducated accept what they do not understand. Consider mag lev trains. They float on air. They are accepted by people who do not understand electromagnetic theory. A rational person will accept something without extraordinary proof, it happens all of the time.
A rational person knows they don't need everything proven to them. Also, there are physicists who believe perpetual motion may be possible. The link is to a video of a machine that operates perpetually. While technically it is a SMOT device, it proves critics like you wrong.
By the way, Stefan has observed this in person so it is what it claims to be. And as such goes, perpetual motion does not say peform work but merely a system that continuously functions. I hope you enjoy choking on all of your erroneous posts. After all, it will only take a simple demonstration being repeated of how photosynthesis happens. No extraordinary proof, just a basic demonstration of an as yet undiscovered process that is known to happen which allows you to live.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlx2PgESXhs
Jim, what exactly is it that you say I have seen and that I am ignoring? What does any of this gravity wheel stuff have to do with chemical reactions?
Rather than worry about what I may or may not know, or what I may or may not think, if you have evidence that you can either violate CoE, or that gravitational fields are not conservative, then why not show them in a clear and convincing way?
Your examples of things like Mag-Lev trains do not make extraordinary claims against established physics. Claims that CoE can be violated do. Claims that gravitational fields act non-conservatively are also extraordinary claims against established physics.
Finsrud's artwork has a very large compressed spring. It is apparent from about :10 to :13 in that video. He has in essence built a very creative and beautiful clock. He has not built a working perpetual motion machine.
I see no value in making things personal. If proof exists for your claims you need only show it.
Quote from: MarkE on January 22, 2014, 03:05:00 PM
Jim, what exactly is it that you say I have seen and that I am ignoring? What does any of this gravity wheel stuff have to do with chemical reactions?
Rather than worry about what I may or may not know, or what I may or may not think, if you have evidence that you can either violate CoE, or that gravitational fields are not conservative, then why not show them in a clear and convincing way?
Your examples of things like Mag-Lev trains do not make extraordinary claims against established physics. Claims that CoE can be violated do. Claims that gravitational fields act non-conservatively are also extraordinary claims against established physics.
Finsrud's artwork has a very large compressed spring. It is apparent from about :10 to :13 in that video. He has in essence built a very creative and beautiful clock. He has not built a working perpetual motion machine.
I see no value in making things personal. If proof exists for your claims you need only show it.
Mark,
The fact that you ignore engineering makes things personal. And as I let Pirate88179 know, I may not need to build Bessler's wheel.
You see, if what I know is correct, it will be taught in physics classes. Still, I will be broke all the same.
Jim
edited to add; @Pirate88179, you live in Ky., right ? I have sent a letter to the editor of the Lexington Herald and let them know that there is a simple way for an organic chemist to test my theory. And with Ky. being a coal producing state, it would be some good p.r. if a possible solution came from "the problem".
And as I told one gal, when I have the chance, I will walk away from Bessler's wheel. It is too much work for nothing. That is why only very few people try.
edited to add; @tinselkoala, pirate88179, ab hammer and who ever, in case you guys don't know it, Stefan is an environmentalist. That may be the main reason he has this forum. It might be that he is doing what he can to find solutions for pollution.
Don't believe me ? Why don't you ask him yourself. That could be one reason why I am continuing to refer to Global Warming.
Besides, I told one woman I know that I think I can help those in positions to do something about it. Kind of why I wouldn't profit from it. I'd only be making a principle known and not something that could be patented. Still, some people have families and they might want a future.
@MarkE,
You do have control issues. It was something you kept repeating that was not quite right.
You kept referring to the 1st Law. Anyone familiar with Isaac Asimov knows that the 3 Laws are for artificial
intelligence or AI.
You have been confusing them with the Laws of Thermodynamics which regulate thermal or quantitate energies.
A perpetual wheel could be considered a bound system just as a hydrogen atom is a bound system. And since we know that
an 1/1H system works, we can therefore accept the second system works if the system of physics is accepted within the limits of the Laws of Thermal Dynamics. A body in motion will remain in motion unless acted upon by external forces.
Prove me wrong if you like but you can't.
Jim
edited to add; MarkE, if you would like to discuss physics, I can do that. I have read the autobiographies of physicists going back to when I was in junior high school back in the 70's. That along with my favorite baseball players like Mantle, Ruth, Cobb and Musial.
But with physics, there was Keppler and Newton, the original Einstein/Schrodinger debate on relativity and quantum theory.
Physics isn't all that difficult really. It's not. With Einstein, he's more about the wave potential like in an electron while Schrödinger was about it's potential as matter. 2 schools of thought.
And yet Planck and his work in black body radiation and heavy metals might be what actual unites the 2 different aspects of physics. If it wasn't for him doing his experiment wrong, Planck would have proven his theory and might not have realized his constant h which allowed for Einstein's work.
And yes, I can prove the mistake Planck made. It has to do with the propagation of thermal energy through a dense body which allows for black light. As things stand, his theory was reconsidered in the 70's of which Carl Sagan, the famous astronomer from Brooklyn, N.Y. proved with math Planck's original work.
needless to say, I am not ignorant when it comes to history, physics and engineering.
Quote from: MarkE on January 22, 2014, 03:05:00 PM
Jim, what exactly is it that you say I have seen and that I am ignoring? What does any of this gravity wheel stuff have to do with chemical reactions?
Rather than worry about what I may or may not know, or what I may or may not think, if you have evidence that you can either violate CoE, or that gravitational fields are not conservative, then why not show them in a clear and convincing way?
Your examples of things like Mag-Lev trains do not make extraordinary claims against established physics. Claims that CoE can be violated do. Claims that gravitational fields act non-conservatively are also extraordinary claims against established physics.
Finsrud's artwork has a very large compressed spring. It is apparent from about :10 to :13 in that video. He has in essence built a very creative and beautiful clock. He has not built a working perpetual motion machine.
I see no value in making things personal. If proof exists for your claims you need only show it.
MarkE,
Your statement: "Finsrud's artwork has a very large compressed spring. It is apparent from about :10 to :13 in that video. He has in essence built a very creative and beautiful clock."
should be modified to read: "It is my opinion that Finsrud's artwork has a very large compressed spring. It is apparent from about :10 to :13 in that video. It is my opinion that he has in essence built a very creative and beautiful clock."
because the spring you see at the top of the device is not what runs the device. The spring is there to allow the track to
tilt as the steel ball is revolving around the track. What drives the device is a 40 Kg weight in the base of the device. This
weight has magnets glued on, and there is also magnets underneath that weight. The weight is a chaos pendulum because
of the magnets. The three outer pendulums is there to governor/regulate the RPM of the steel ball. The top of the device has
a gear down system from the internal pendulum so the the internal movement of the central pendulum is geared down
a lot before the force is transferred to tilting the track.
You can see drawings etc. here: http://www.galleri-finsrud.no/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=105&Itemid=69
This site has a tread here: http://www.overunity.com/18/finsrud-perpetual-motion-machine/nowap/
I agree that Mr. Finsrud has built a very creative and beautiful artwork.
GL.
Jim I have no interest in personal issues. Disagreement on a technical issue isn't personal for me. If you take my disagreement with your technically positions personally, then please accept my condolences.
The laws of thermodynamics are also known as the laws of energy. They have nothing to do with Mr. Asimov or his wonderful science fiction stories.
If you want to believe extraordinary claims that don't have supporting evidence that is your choice. If you want to try and persuade me that an extraordinary claim is true then you need strong evidence. If at anytime you come up with strong evidence that gravity is non-conservative, or that energy is non-conservative, then I am happy to look at your evidence.
If you want to believe things such as Mr. Finsrud's machine is a working perpetual motion machine then you are free to do that.
Good luck with your project.
Quote from: MarkE on January 22, 2014, 05:44:07 PM
Jim I have no interest in personal issues. Disagreement on a technical issue isn't personal for me. If you take my disagreement with your technically positions personally, then please accept my condolences.
The laws of thermodynamics are also known as the laws of energy. They have nothing to do with Mr. Asimov or his wonderful science fiction stories.
If you want to believe extraordinary claims that don't have supporting evidence that is your choice. If you want to try and persuade me that an extraordinary claim is true then you need strong evidence. If at anytime you come up with strong evidence that gravity is non-conservative, or that energy is non-conservative, then I am happy to look at your evidence.
If you want to believe things such as Mr. Finsrud's machine is a working perpetual motion machine in spite of the obvious, big compression spring energy store right there in the middle of the device, then you are free to do that.
Grimer what facts lead you to the conclusion that anyone has ever built a working permanent magnet powered motor? That dark video that you linked just shows a motor. What proves that it or any other machine ever constituted a working "magnetic motor"?[/font]
Tell me Mark. Do you know what's under the cover of "that dark video"? Would you like to know? Aren't you curious?Because I know. [size=78%] [/size]
QuoteAnd Stephen will need to ban me since I do not like AB Hammer and his friends. Something about posting
no open work that is intended to work perpetually.
I guess people like AB Hammer who can only show pictures of his armor and non-working wheels can be jealous.
In Bessler wheel, I got banned because basically it was what 2 people wanted.
While others wanted to see me build it, ab hammer and jim_mich won out because they don't build.
ab hammer even says that I have to let him in on what I am working on where he will be the boss of me.
__________________________________________________________________________________
second page
edited to add; @tinselkoala, pirate88179, ab hammer and who ever, in case you guys don't know it, Stefan is an environmentalist. That may be the main reason he has this forum. It might be that he is doing what he can to find solutions for pollution.
:o WOW Jim Lindgaard
All this about me on the first page and its all BS. The second page didn't have no real importance either.
Leave me out of your posting!!!!!!PS I do enjoy life better when you are posting under other's names for you don't say nothing about me and life is much more peaceful. I really don't care what you post as long as you leave me out of it.
GET THE HINT!!!Alan
Quote from: MarkE on January 22, 2014, 05:44:07 PM
Jim I have no interest in personal issues. Disagreement on a technical issue isn't personal for me. If you take my disagreement with your technically positions personally, then please accept my condolences.
The laws of thermodynamics are also known as the laws of energy. They have nothing to do with Mr. Asimov or his wonderful science fiction stories.
If you want to believe extraordinary claims that don't have supporting evidence that is your choice. If you want to try and persuade me that an extraordinary claim is true then you need strong evidence. If at anytime you come up with strong evidence that gravity is non-conservative, or that energy is non-conservative, then I am happy to look at your evidence.
If you want to believe things such as Mr. Finsrud's machine is a working perpetual motion machine in spite of the obvious, big compression spring energy store right there in the middle of the device, then you are free to do that.
Good luck with your project.
Mark,
You are nothing more than an ab hammer, pirate88179 or tinselkoala. People who know nothing but want to be noticed.
I doubt my garbage collector would take your kind. really, there is refuse and there is trash. You guys should be on Jerry Springer saying how you can't get off because you can't find a man.
Jim, abuse does not make cogent argument.
Quote from: j_lindgaard1 on January 22, 2014, 06:42:11 PM
Mark,
You are nothing more than an ab hammer, pirate88179 or tinselkoala. People who know nothing but want to be noticed.
I doubt my garbage collector would take your kind. really, there is refuse and there is trash. You guys should be on Jerry Springer saying how you can't get off because you can't find a man.
Lindgaard
More BS lies?
You should be on Ripley's believe it or not for being the most stupidest guy in the world.
But I guess Babies still need their attention, even if it is negative.
__________________________________________________
Mark
Sorry but you have a lot to learn for you seem to be in a box. To figure a perpetual type device you have to think out side of the box or you will not be able to accept the possibilities.
Alan
Quote from: AB Hammer on January 22, 2014, 06:56:40 PM
Lindgaard
More BS lies?
You should be on Ripley's believe it or not for being the most stupidest guy in the world.
But I guess Babies still need their attention, even if it is negative.
__________________________________________________
Mark
Sorry but you have a lot to learn for you seem to be in a box. To figure a perpetual type device you have to think out side of the box or you will not be able to accept the possibilities.
Alan
And in 10 years you have not discussed one build. I guess you can't talk about what you don't know.
BTW, you might be more Native American than myself but between John Smith and Pocahontas, you are nothing but trash.
After all, Disney has made movies about my grandparents and it's not seen on the Jerry Springer Show like your family.
And Alan. if you missed it you white piece of trash, I am the great grandson of Chief Wahunsenacawh.
And if it makes you feel better, Light Horse Harry Lee who wrote the Articles of Confederation is also another great grandfather. You know, that makes Gen. Robert E. Lee my great uncle. You know, Edmunds Jennings Lee was one of my great grand fathers.
Butt as you say, you are better than me because you are white and speak only in English. Gotcha
Quote from: AB Hammer on January 22, 2014, 06:56:40 PM
Lindgaard
Mark
Sorry but you have a lot to learn for you seem to be in a box. To figure a perpetual type device you have to think out side of the box or you will not be able to accept the possibilities.
Alan
Alan, if you or anyone else has evidence of a working perpetual motion machine, then I would love to see that evidence.
Quote from: MarkE on January 22, 2014, 07:20:50 PM
Alan, if you or anyone else has evidence of a working perpetual motion machine, then I would love to see that evidence.
Mark,
Alan is like you. Everybody is a fraud.
Only difference is he believes that white people can own slaves. His posts are still there.
And some fun facts. The Wright brothers who invented flight flew their airplanes for a number of years because it was impossible.
It took somebody else in another country claiming to be the first that finally got them the recognition that they deserved.
Could explain the history of why but 2 brothers who owned a bicycle store were exactly your Alan Bauldrees of today.
Combined they probably weighed less than Alan. Could be why their plane flew and his armor sinks, er stinks.
For MarkE's benefit,
the 1st Law of which he kept referring to;
A robot may not harm a human being or through inaction allow a human being to come to harm.
This is what he has been referring to and back in the day it would be called subliminal messaging.
A clever word play which ab hammer has used quite successfully over the years. Of course, birds of a
feather do tend to flock together.
Jim
Quote from: j_lindgaard1 on January 22, 2014, 07:41:52 PM
Mark,
Alan is like you. Everybody is a fraud.
Only difference is he believes that white people can own slaves. His posts are still there.
And some fun facts. The Wright brothers who invented flight flew their airplanes for a number of years because it was impossible.
It took somebody else in another country claiming to be the first that finally got them the recognition that they deserved.
Could explain the history of why but 2 brothers who owned a bicycle store were exactly your Alan Bauldrees of today.
Combined they probably weighed less than Alan. Could be why their plane flew and his armor sinks, er stinks.
lindgaard
Your Proof claim is a lie!!. Where is the link? Oh you don't have one. how typical.
The only one who talks race around here is you lindgaard. So you have to be the racist. I am not. I am also a mix race that also consist of 1/8 American Indian.
So you and your race talk can go to hell!! PS I normally call myself a Heinz 57 due to all the mixes. LOL
_____________________________________________________
MarkE
You will see soon enough. I have another
trusted builder working on duplicating concept.
Alan
Quote from: j_lindgaard1 on January 22, 2014, 06:42:11 PM
Mark,
You are nothing more than an ab hammer, pirate88179 or tinselkoala. People who know nothing but want to be noticed.
I doubt my garbage collector would take your kind. really, there is refuse and there is trash. You guys should be on Jerry Springer saying how you can't get off because you can't find a man.
Please leave me out of your delusional, libelous postings. This is exactly why you have been banned from this forum five times now. I asked you, on one of your other many topics that you started since your return, to be nice. Why not try that? There are a lot of very intelligent folks here that you could actually learn something from.
if you persist in your typical behavior, I am sure Stefan will ban you once again.
For someone who claims to be smart, you seem to never learn. A shame really.
Bill
I just hope that Stefan sees all of your attempts at starting flame wars over here. Folks here are busy doing real research and do not need to be distracted by your attempts at starting fights with false accusations and lies.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on January 25, 2014, 06:34:11 PM
I just hope that Stefan sees all of your attempts at starting flame wars over here. Folks here are busy doing real research and do not need to be distracted by your attempts at starting fights with false accusations and lies.
Bill
Bill,
Why don't you, Allan and tinselkoala do a build and explain it. You know, why you like the idea that YOU are building.
edited to add; BTW bill, the only thing being discussed was what their working on in Brazil is it ? I guess discussing engineering and how new idea's might lessen the cost of desalination is a bad thing, right ?
Then again, for someone who lives in Australia, they might find something like that worth considering as it would help to improve their economy if my idea can work.
Jim Lindgaard
j_lindgaard1 (http://www.overunity.com/profile/j_lindgaard1.85458/)
is set on moderation, cause he starts again flamewars, after having been blocked
with other usernames.
Jim,
please stop harrassing other users.
Better study the animations and simulations from :
https://www.youtube.com/user/pumpkinlim/videos
and try to build a model of this... This is the most promosing wheel
I have seen so far....
Regards, Stefan.
Quote from: hartiberlin on January 25, 2014, 08:57:13 PM
Jim Lindgaard
j_lindgaard1 (http://www.overunity.com/profile/j_lindgaard1.85458/)
is set on moderation, cause he starts again flamewars, after having been blocked
with other usernames.
Jim,
please stop harrassing other users.
Better study the animations and simulations from :
https://www.youtube.com/user/pumpkinlim/videos
and try to build a model of this... This is the most promosing wheel
I have seen so far....
Regards, Stefan.
Stefan,
I won't post in here any more. I have no need to give my idea's away.
Here is what bill and tinselkoala accuse me of having stolen from tinselkoala on many occasions.
It's called the Travis effect and not sure how tinselkoala claims credit for thinking of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_MLjkt8ti4
Quote from: hartiberlin on January 25, 2014, 08:57:13 PM
Jim Lindgaard
j_lindgaard1 (http://www.overunity.com/profile/j_lindgaard1.85458/)
is set on moderation, cause he starts again flamewars, after having been blocked
with other usernames.
Jim,
please stop harrassing other users.
Better study the animations and simulations from :
https://www.youtube.com/user/pumpkinlim/videos (https://www.youtube.com/user/pumpkinlim/videos)
and try to build a model of this... This is the most promosing wheel
I have seen so far....
Regards, Stefan.
Stefan:
Thank you very much. The good forum members here should not have to put up this kind of abuse. I have learned a lot from the smart guys here and i am thankful.
Bill