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I think that all of us want to be respected, and in return we want to respect others.
I don't think any of us want to be prejudged.
I think we all want to have safety and security in our daily lives.

Keep these things in mind when you call somebody a "shill" or a "paid government agent."  You have no idea who is listening.  On YouTube you can find all sorts of extreme people and there are people that utter death threats.

The only reason I brought this up is because I saw a news link on the MSN site:

Halifax shooting plot foiled by police

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/halifax-shooting-plot-foiled-by-police/ar-AA9nvLn?ocid=iehp (http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/halifax-shooting-plot-foiled-by-police/ar-AA9nvLn?ocid=iehp)

<<< He said a man and woman planned to go to a public venue in the Halifax region on Feb. 14 "with a goal of opening fire to kill citizens, and then themselves.">>>

<<< "I wouldn't characterize it as a terrorist event. I would classify it as a group of individuals that had some beliefs and were willing to carry out violent acts against citizens.">>>

We all have a personal responsibility to try to be decent, kind, respectful people.  If you shoot your mouth off and call every person that disagrees with you a "government shill" you are being prejudicial and irresponsible.  Who is to say that somebody with "some beliefs" isn't going to show up at some free energy conference with the intent to do harm?  I know this is all a long shot, but it still deserves mentioning.

There won't be a "Halifax massacre" in the news tomorrow.  Within reason, we should all at least try to be reasonable and personally responsible in the way we treat each other, even towards the people that we don't like or disagree with.

MH:

I agree.  The "paid shill" or "Gov. paid detractor" seems to be the fall back position of someone who claims O.U with little to no evidence and then is outed by the guys that really know their stuff.  It is so worn out now that it does not bother me.  But, you raise a good point here...who knows who might be looking in and, if they really believed that so and so was a paid shill blocking free energy that could save the world...well, they might feel motivated to do something stupid based upon a false premise.

My warning to TK about the QEG folks was not all in jest.  You just never know what someone might, or might not do, especially if you are impeding them from raising hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Why can't we all just discuss and maybe even argue different theories without name calling and resorting to other non-productive postings?  I have never understood this.  I have been guilty of falling into these lowly discourses from time to time but, there is no point to it.  1+1=2.  If someone does not believe that...show me why.  If they can't, and call me a paid shill for asking why not, then, no one learns anything.

Bill

Quote from: Pirate88179
...
Why can't we all just discuss and maybe even argue different theories without name calling and resorting to other non-productive postings?  I have never understood this.  I have been guilty of falling into these lowly discourses from time to time but, there is no point to it.  1+1=2.  If someone does not believe that...show me why.  If they can't, and call me a paid shill for asking why not, then, no one learns anything.

Those who spend some amount of time evaluating
television programming and the types of behaviors
which are being 'role modeled' as the new 'normal'
will know the answer to that question.  Intimidating
control techniques spread as if contagious.

It is 'cool' to be 'bad' as never before.  Cleverly worded
crude insults have become the mark of the socially
successful 'dude' or 'dudette.'

Much of this seemingly 'crude' behavior is actually done
in fun as a mark of real affection for the seemingly 'put
down' target.  Any who've spent time in the military
services will understand this concept well.

Maybe some of us are just too 'sensitive' and/or too easily
'offended.'  As such we may lose sight of the wisdom of the
sages:  "Show others by your actions how you'd like to be
treated."  Anger and resentment may cause a speedy stumble
into the pit of low places.

Aye Webby 1, as you've said in the posting prior, it is indeed
emotions.

Quote from: SeaMonkey on February 15, 2015, 08:10:59 PM
Those who spend some amount of time evaluating
television programming and the types of behaviors
which are being 'role modeled' as the new 'normal'
will know the answer to that question.  Intimidating
control techniques spread as if contagious.

It is 'cool' to be 'bad' as never before.  Cleverly worded
crude insults have become the mark of the socially
successful 'dude' or 'dudette.'

Much of this seemingly 'crude' behavior is actually done
in fun as a mark of real affection for the seemingly 'put
down' target.  Any who've spent time in the military
services will understand this concept well.

Maybe some of us are just too 'sensitive' and/or too easily
'offended.'  As such we may lose sight of the wisdom of the
sages:  "Show others by your actions how you'd like to be
treated."  Anger and resentment may cause a speedy stumble
into the pit of low places.

I agree with this...that is...if I understand what you are saying.  Arguing means no one learns anything.  Debating allows someone, or many, to learn.

Bill

QuoteMuch of this seemingly 'crude' behavior is actually done
in fun as a mark of real affection for the seemingly 'put
down' target.  Any who've spent time in the military
services will understand this concept well.

But this is not the military or football or basketball.  What you are trying to sell is clearly not true around here.  Sometimes you are your own worst enemy because you do exactly what you purport to despise in "others out there."  You are being pretentious and disingenuous.

Wake up and get real.  Bad, corrosive, disrespectful behaviour around here is clearly and unambiguously not being done as a mark of affection.

Quote from: Miles Higher
Wake up and get real.  Bad, corrosive, disrespectful behaviour around here is clearly and unambiguously not being done as a mark of affection.

Hmmm.  Rather a dramatic 'take' on the dynamic.

It is what we perceive it to be;  or what we make it to
be.

When a 'target' reciprocates in kind, essentially 'fighting
fire with fire,' it could turn into something ugly.  But, with
self-control and reason, such an eventuality may be prevented.

Miles, at times you sound hyper-paranoid. :o ::)

We loves ya man!! ;D :)   Even when you go off the deep end. :-* ;)

I am not buying any of it.  If you want to be trapped in a "SeaMonkey persona" that's your choice.

Quote from: MileHigh on February 15, 2015, 08:35:12 PM
  You are being pretentious and disingenuous.

Wake up and get real. 

This why I am not in the mile high club.  ;D

Quote from: Jimboot on February 16, 2015, 04:27:12 AM
This why I am not in the mile high club.  ;D

Well I can't figure out that statement at all.  Would you care to explain yourself?

Is it because you got annoyed because I was pushing you guys to do better on the "The new generator no effect counter B. EMF part 2 ( Selfrunning )" thread and so you called me a troll?  Pushing you guys to try to do better and more meaningful experiments and to generate better data is not trolling by any means.  I just tried to do that to see if it would help.  It is very rare that I do that because I know it never works.  I don't really read the thread any more but I would assume it's following the standard pattern where you all end up spinning your wheels (figuratively and literally) and it ends up going nowhere.  I was just trying to jolt you guys into doing better.

I am not in the mile high club myself but I hope to become a member one day.

You start a thread about mutual respect and then start name calling. Then you make fun of another members handle whilst yours is a colloquialism for having sex on a plane.


It's this attitude most of us have a problem with. The very thing that YOU started a thread about. You are what you publish.

Really?  I don't see any name-calling.  I voiced a strong opinion for sure because I don't believe that black is white and heads are tails.  It was like someone trying to program your thoughts which is the ultimate irony considering who I was disagreeing with.

I made fun of another person's handle?  Not that I am aware of in this thread.  My handle is not about xes in a plane, that aspect only occurred to me afterwards.  You need to take a chill pill because almost any handle can be reinterpreted with a bit of imagination.  Yours could easily have a quite negative interpretation.

You are way off base as far as I am concerned.  Also, if you have something to say to me just say it.

Ok if I have to spell it out it's a bit pointless but here goes. Where I come from calling someone pretentious and disingenuous is NOT respectful. Be what you want to see in the world mate.
All the best

Quote from: Jimboot on February 16, 2015, 05:45:01 PM
Ok if I have to spell it out it's a bit pointless but here goes. Where I come from calling someone pretentious and disingenuous is NOT respectful. Be what you want to see in the world mate.
All the best

Well you are wrong.  I was simply disagreeing with him and my choice of words in the context of the subject matter and the facts was reasonable.

Posting a "Don't feed the trolls" sign wasn't exactly respectful on your part, was it?  I will repeat that I was just pushing you guys to do better.  It looks to me like the thread is dead and it went nowhere.

What about you?  Do you agree with SeaMonkey or do you agree with me?  If I was to insult and demean someone does that really mean I like them?  What do you say?

Quote from: MilesHigher
What about you?  Do you agree with SeaMonkey or do you agree with me?

If you don't mind, I'll take a stab at your questions
Miles.  I'll pass here. :-\

Quote from: MilesHigher
If I was to insult and demean someone does that really mean I like them?

It certainly could mean that you do.  I'll go a
bit further - it would be very nice if you did. ???

Quote from: MilesHigher
What do you say?

That it depends.  You might or, in the moment you
might not.  But you should. :o ;)

After all, aren't we really among friends in this Forum? :) ;D

Quote from: MileHigh on February 13, 2015, 10:22:37 PM
Keep these things in mind when you call somebody a "shill" or a "paid government agent."

What I tend to feel about the "shill" comments is bored.  I think I've said this before if someone really and truly believed that say someone like myself got a literal check, cash, ETF, paypal (whatever the shadow government is using these days - Bitcoin?) when I criticize people.  I would find that terribly interesting.  I would absolutely love to talk to someone like that.  I've had a couple of chances to talk to people who have limited delusions and I found it fascinating. 

However what seems far, far, far more plausible is that this is just an attempt to insult people.  "shill" is being in about the same respect that the word "asshole" would be used.

I have no idea what set of social mores are expected on this part of the internet but if we're talking about self-moderation (or a more authoritative kind) then one I think needs to ask what kind of outcome one wants.  If someone wants to have interesting discussions.  Then I suggest that at least two people need to be communicating around some point.  In which case the people who post a lot without advancing the point are probably the people who should curb their posting (or have it curbed).

However if the point is to have traffic on a site from people who would click on ads about "Bedini Advanced Handbook" then clearly one would want the greatest number of wingnuts posssible.

Quote from: MileHigh on February 16, 2015, 05:59:09 PM
Well you are wrong.  I was simply disagreeing with him and my choice of words in the context of the subject matter and the facts was reasonable.

..and that's why I pay scant attention to what you write. You might be a very knowledgeable bloke but you think calling someone pretentious whilst anonymously hiding behind a keyboard is ok. Not someone I want to associate with. No disrespect but anyone who thinks like that... well enough said.

SeaMonkey:

I'm not playing your game, period.  Wait a week and read back your two postings and see how ridiculous they are.

Sarkeizen:

I agree with you that it's ridiculous to think that people are paid to post here.  There are indeed people that have extreme views and that's where nobody wants to become a statistic.  I honestly think that you too could tone down your rhetoric.  Sparring is fine and all that but we really should try to keep things civil.

Jimboot:

Honestly it feels to me like your brain is frying.  You tried to mock me and make your little smiley face and I called you on it.  Now you have painted yourself into this crazy corner where you are trying to claim that the use of the term "pretentious" is offensive which is simply and utterly ridiculous.  You are afraid to even answer the question that I posed squarely and directly to you.  And you better believe it that I want to hide behind a keyboard but it's not for the reasons you are stating.  You need to take some time to chill out and unfry your brain.

MileHigh

Quote from: Sar-Ke-Izzzzzen
What I tend to feel about the "shill" comments is bored.  I think I've said this before if someone really and truly believed that say someone like myself got a literal check, cash, ETF, paypal (whatever the shadow government is using these days - Bitcoin?) when I criticize people.  I would find that terribly interesting.  I would absolutely love to talk to someone like that.  I've had a couple of chances to talk to people who have limited delusions and I found it fascinating. 

Sar-Ke,

As a Forum-Man of some experience and ability
surely you must be aware that what you've laid
out as a modus operandi is erroneous.  Of course,
your intent is to obscure your true purpose for
being here and to present the image of innocence.
Just a wee bit o'research into how "shills" operate
and who sponsors them would have removed all
doubt from your pretended lack of comprehension.
You do try... ::) :P

Quote from: Sar-Ke-Izzzzzen
However what seems far, far, far more plausible is that this is just an attempt to insult people.  "shill" is being in about the same respect that the word "asshole" would be used.

Aye, that is to a large extent what it has devolved
to.  But, in reality, as 'insults' go, 'Shill' is very, very
mild.  Some could even consider it a compliment. 8) ;)

Quote from: Sar-Ke-Izzzzzen
I have no idea what set of social mores are expected on this part of the internet but if we're talking about self-moderation (or a more authoritative kind) then one I think needs to ask what kind of outcome one wants.  If someone wants to have interesting discussions.  Then I suggest that at least two people need to be communicating around some point.  In which case the people who post a lot without advancing the point are probably the people who should curb their posting (or have it curbed).

Noble sounding words.  Will they pass the
time honored Sincerity Test? :o ::)

Quote from: Sar-Ke-Izzzzzen
However if the point is to have traffic on a site from people who would click on ads about "Bedini Advanced Handbook" then clearly one would want the greatest number of wingnuts posssible.

And, there we finally have it.  Your True Colors
displayed for all to see!  Many Thanks Sar-Ke!
A Superiority Complex second only to Bonaparte
himself! ;D :-* ;) :)

Aye Sar-Ke, you do try... :'( :'(

Quote from: MileHigh on February 17, 2015, 12:44:05 AM
SeaMonkey:

Jimboot:

Honestly it feels to me like your brain is frying.  You tried to mock me and make your little smiley face and I called you on it.  Now you have painted yourself into this crazy corner where you are trying to claim that the use of the term "pretentious" is offensive which is simply and utterly ridiculous.  You are afraid to even answer the question that I posed squarely and directly to you.  And you better believe it that I want to hide behind a keyboard but it's not for the reasons you are stating.  You need to take some time to chill out and unfry your brain.

MileHigh

Bloke, I'm merely pointing out that you purport to want respect but you then use language that is contrary to that. I'm making observations you're making accusations. One member is pretentious and apparently now my brain is frying. I chose not to respond to your question because it had nothing to do with this thread. It's good to know though that everyone can call you pretentious and you won't be offended or consider it disrespectful.

The problem is that your observation is dead wrong.  Using the term "pretentious" or "disingenuous" when appropriate is not being disrespectful.  Posting a "don't feed the trolls" sign when it is not appropriate is being disrespectful.  That puts you in a self-contradictory position assuming that you agree that we should treat each other with mutual respect.

Do you think insulting and demeaning someone online actually means you like them?  Yes or no?

Quote from: MileHigh on February 17, 2015, 01:20:23 AM
The problem is that your observation is dead wrong.  Using the term "pretentious" or "disingenuous" when appropriate is not being disrespectful.  Posting a "don't feed the trolls" sign when it is not appropriate is being disrespectful.  That puts you in a self-contradictory position assuming that you agree that we should treat each other with mutual respect.

Do you think insulting and demeaning someone online actually means you like them?  Yes or no?

So if I thought it was appropriate to call you pretentious, sarcastic, demeaning, childish or paranoid. That's ok? Got it. I get how you think now and I'll be on my way. Thanks for the illuminating discourse

Let me clarify everything for you.

The fact that SeaMonkey and his navy buddies talked trash on a ship in 1961 does not mean that demeaning and degrading someone online here actually means that you like them.  As far as I am concerned SeaMonkey is just in a weird mood and he is BSing and playing the provocateur for "kicks."  He has lost his composure.

The question that you are afraid to answer and has everything to do with this thread goes like this: "No, when someone demeans and degrades someone online it does not mean that they actually like the other person.  To even suggest it is preposterous because this is not a football locker room or a navy ship.  It's pretentious for someone to even suggest that this is true."  Why you don't even have the courage or character to state the obvious is beyond me.

To suggest that using the term "pretentious" in the above paragraph is inappropriate is ridiculous and why you would even suggest that is beyond me.

Quote from: Jimboot on February 17, 2015, 01:43:52 AM
So if I thought it was appropriate to call you pretentious, sarcastic, demeaning, childish or paranoid. That's ok? Got it. I get how you think now and I'll be on my way. Thanks for the illuminating discourse

That above is just sarcastic immature baby talk because you are not able to put forth a sensible argument.

We should all try to treat people with respect online.  We should not call other people shills or government agents because we are totally ignorant of their situation and we are also totally ignorant of how many mentally unbalanced people might be reading.  Not to mention the whole idea of the government watching over beginner electronics experimenters that work at a high school competency level is ridiculous.

That's the real message.  Just go onto YouTube and do a search on "vicious assault" and look at about 30 clips if you need a sobering dose of reality.

I have not levelled one insult at you. You have levelled several at me for using your own statements back at you. It seems like a pastime for you?  I guess it's easy when you're anonymous.


You want respect? [/size]

[/size]
Start treating others the same way and you maybe surprised.[/size]

Don't try to pretend you are an angel.  Everything I said is valid and I stand by it.  It's not about me either, it's about everyone.  Your argument from the very start in this thread is false.

QuoteI have not levelled one insult at you.

What the hell is this then?

QuoteSo if I thought it was appropriate to call you pretentious, sarcastic, demeaning, childish or paranoid. That's ok? Got it.

Why you chose to object to the message in this thread by making a false argument about a quote of mine is similar to SeaMonkey making a ridiculous statement for "kicks."

Just absorb the message in this thread and leave it at that.

Quote from: MileHigh on February 17, 2015, 02:48:10 AM
Don't try to pretend you are an angel.  Everything I said is valid and I stand by it.  It's not about me either, it's about everyone.  Your argument from the very start in this thread is false.

What the hell is this then?

Why you chose to object to the message in this thread by making a false argument about a quote of mine is similar to SeaMonkey making a ridiculous statement for "kicks."

Just absorb the message in this thread and leave it at that.

I didn't insult you. I asked you a question based on your own logic. Clearly you were upset by the question. I don't know you but I'm guessing you have not had much social interaction in life. In the real world people get upset when you call them names even if - you think it's appropriate - . So you have levelled insults at me and seamonkey. To be clear though, I am not insulted. I'm not been condescending but you can hurl all the insults you like, the decision to be insulted is mine alone. For instance - you accuse me of "immature baby talk" - Well clearly "immature" is redundant and babies can't talk, so I actually find your insults say more about you. How I react says more about me. [/size]


What I am attempting to explain to you, which is proving difficult, is that all you really need to do is treat people how you want to be treated. Most people know this, which is why I am assuming you are socially isolated.

So you are pulling out the big guns now?  You can try really hard Jim but it is not sticking.  You don't have the courage to even say that what SeaMonkey said was silly.  I objected to SeaMonkey's silly argument and then you objected to that just for the sake of taking a nonsensical jab at me and making a smiley face.  That's "Jimboot the bad boy" looking for attention.

Let the paint in the corner dry and then you can go back to doing your thing.

Quote from: MileHigh on February 17, 2015, 03:44:50 AM
So you are pulling out the big guns now?  You can try really hard Jim but it is not sticking.  You don't have the courage to even say that what SeaMonkey said was silly.  I objected to SeaMonkey's silly argument and then you objected to that just for the sake of taking a nonsensical jab at me and making a smiley face.  That's "Jimboot the bad boy" looking for attention.

Let the paint in the corner dry and then you can go back to doing your thing.

I have no idea what you are talking about but I have made assumptions about your age/maturity and social situation based on what you have published. Btw you will not goad me into insulting you. I have a very public persona and do not need to be anonymous. I wish you every success in being treated with respect.

QuoteMuch of this seemingly 'crude' behavior is actually done
in fun as a mark of real affection for the seemingly 'put
down' target.  Any who've spent time in the military
services will understand this concept well.

Do you agree with the above statement or not when it comes to the online forums?

If you disagree with it, do you think it's fair to characterize the above statement as pretentious?

Here is the definition:  "full of pretense or pretension; having no factual basis; false."

Quote from: MileHigh on February 17, 2015, 03:59:59 AM
Do you agree with the above statement or not when it comes to the online forums?

If you disagree with it, do you think it's fair to characterize the above statement as pretentious?

Here is the definition:  "full of pretense or pretension; having no factual basis; false."

No. I have no opinion as I have not spent time in the military. Have you? To be clear though you called Seamonkey pretentious not the statement. Where I come from that is considered quite rude unless you know the person quite well. .. and then of course there is the rest of the insults that you directed at me. Certainly it exhibits a clear lack of respect which I understand is the very thing you seek?

I am not even talking about the military, I am talking about the online forums.  Surely you read the sentence and you understood it?  So not enough guts to even answer the perfectly reasonable questions and we all know what the answers really are anyways, including you.  Playing dumb on your part is just silly.

You can forget about playing the innocent angel or the poor wounded animal. 

Finally, you play the "you must be socially isolated" card which is just another version of calling someone a shill or a government agent.  You tried to be a smart ass and dug a really deep hole for yourself in this thread.  You are an example of why I made this posting in the first place.  It's not about me, it's about calling people names like shill or government agent when it's just a cop out and it's irresponsible and could put people in danger.  That is what this thread is really about.

People can look at your behavior here as an example of why we need to not insult and attack people, why we need to communicate as adults and not feign word games or make intentional lapses in logic or use immature logic that anybody can spot from a mile away.

My message to you is to just be real.  That is where you had a problem with this whole debate.  You were a faker from the beginning and you pushed it pretty far.  Saying that using the term "pretentious" is really wrong and insulting is totally fake on your part.  i.e.; We all know what the answers really are anyways, including you.

Just be real, and respect others.  Simple as that.

Quote from: MileHigh on February 17, 2015, 04:34:53 AM
I am not even talking about the military, I am talking about the online forums.  Surely you read the sentence and you understood it?  So not enough guts to even answer the perfectly reasonable questions and we all know what the answers really are anyways, including you.  Playing dumb on your part is just silly.

You can forget about playing the innocent angel or the poor wounded animal. 

Finally, you play the "you must be socially isolated" card which is just another version of calling someone a shill or a government agent.  You tried to be a smart ass and dug a really deep hole for yourself in this thread.  You are an example of why I made this posting in the first place.  It's not about me, it's about calling people names like shill or government agent when it's just a cop out and it's irresponsible and could put people in danger.  That is what this thread is really about.

People can look at your behavior here as an example of why we need to not insult and attack people, why we need to communicate as adults and not feign word games or make intentional lapses in logic or use immature logic that anybody can spot from a mile away.

My message to you is to just be real.  That is where you had a problem with this whole debate.  You were a faker from the beginning and you pushed it pretty far.  Saying that using the term "pretentious" is really wrong and insulting is totally fake on your part.  i.e.; We all know what the answers really are anyways, including you.

Just be real, and respect others.  Simple as that.

I don't know what you think respect means but you are the one calling people names. Most people consider this disrespectful. Do you not see the irony?


I have not attacked nor insulted you. You have labelled me as immature baby, a frying brain, gutless (BTW I'm not anonymous you are), fake, smart ass, (so we know you're American at least) dumb and silly.


I'm fairly sure if you said that to a lot of people they would consider it disrespectful and probably childish too.


How old are you if you don't mind me asking?

Quote from: sarkeizen on February 16, 2015, 10:51:59 PM
What I tend to feel about the "shill" comments is bored.  I think I've said this before if someone really and truly believed that say someone like myself got a literal check, cash, ETF, paypal (whatever the shadow government is using these days - Bitcoin?) when I criticize people.  I would find that terribly interesting.  I would absolutely love to talk to someone like that.  I've had a couple of chances to talk to people who have limited delusions and I found it fascinating. 

However what seems far, far, far more plausible is that this is just an attempt to insult people.  "shill" is being in about the same respect that the word "asshole" would be used.

I have no idea what set of social mores are expected on this part of the internet but if we're talking about self-moderation (or a more authoritative kind) then one I think needs to ask what kind of outcome one wants.  If someone wants to have interesting discussions.  Then I suggest that at least two people need to be communicating around some point.  In which case the people who post a lot without advancing the point are probably the people who should curb their posting (or have it curbed).

However if the point is to have traffic on a site from people who would click on ads about "Bedini Advanced Handbook" then clearly one would want the greatest number of wingnuts posssible.

WOW!

Sarke, you nailed it!

Quote from: Sarke "shill" is being in about the same respect that the word "asshole" would be used.

I completely agree with you when you say "A shill is an asshole." Yes sir. You right.

A shill is an asshole.


CANGAS 136

Quote from: Jimboot on February 17, 2015, 04:51:14 AM
I don't know what you think respect means but you are the one calling people names. Most people consider this disrespectful. Do you not see the irony?

Namecalling is ascribing a derogatory label to a person most of what is happening is not that.  Also if this is meant as an argument against Milehigh's position that we need to stop using "shill".   It's invalid, in fact it's actually one of classical forms of ad hominem. :)

QuoteI have not attacked nor insulted you.

By what appears to be your logic Milehigh could say that saying someone is "namecalling" is namecalling. :)

QuoteYou have labelled me as immature baby

What I read from the above post was:

Quoteimmature baby talk

See that's labeling an action the "talk" was immature, not you as a person.  Someones mannerisms can be immature without the person being immature (to some point).

Quotea frying brain

I'm not sure what that means.  Especially when you attempt to reform the original words into some object phrase.  Were I to guess it's describing a problem with your logic or some actions that lead to that.

Quotegutless

I didn't see where this word was used.  However that might be the closest thing to actual namecalling that said there are definitely cases where that wouldn't be the case.

Quotefake

Again this is describing something you are doing.  "faker" which he used later on is closer to a personal insult.

Quotesmart ass

Same.

Quotedumb and silly.

I assume you're referencing:

QuotePlaying dumb on your part is just silly.

Again "playing dumb" is an idiom that describes something the author thinks you are doing - perhaps making the implied claim that the author is hypersensitive and by being even more so yourself you can excuse the behavior of others - "silly" in this case, in English is descriptive of the topic of the sentence which is "playing dumb".  So again this isn't a personal critique per se.

Just to contrast that with "shill".   Which is someone who's actions or opinions are available for hire is a lot harder to use in a sense that is impersonal.  For example you could say that "criticizing OU is the behavior of a shill" but it's also the behavior of the vast majority of people in the world.  So not a very useful usage.  You could attempt to turn it into an adjective but the words "shill-like" "shillish" are uncommon in usage.  Hence it's not exactly unreasonable to brand the term "shill" as a more personal insult than "stupid" which could be applied to all sorts of acts.

Anyway it's not that "shill" is the ultimate insult or anything but insults applied to ones person - rather than ones actions - are at least imprecise and I can at least understand why someone would want them to stop.  As opposed to yourself who is putting a fair amount of work into a "you're just as bad" ploy.   Anyway I'm not really pushing for a complete halt to insults as anyone here knows I've called profits, Joel, allcandian and SeaMonkey various names....all of which they deserved.

Quote from: sarkeizen on February 17, 2015, 07:51:28 AM
Namecalling is ascribing a derogatory label to a person most of what is happening is not that.  Also if this is meant as an argument against Milehigh's position that we need to stop using "shill".   It's invalid, in fact it's actually one of classical forms of ad hominem. :)By what appears to be your logic Milehigh could say that saying someone is "namecalling" is namecalling. :)What I read from the above post was:See that's labeling an action the "talk" was immature, not you as a person.  Someones mannerisms can be immature without the person being immature (to some point). I'm not sure what that means.  Especially when you attempt to reform the original words into some object phrase.  Were I to guess it's describing a problem with your logic or some actions that lead to that.I didn't see where this word was used.  However that might be the closest thing to actual namecalling that said there are definitely cases where that wouldn't be the case.Again this is describing something you are doing.  "faker" which he used later on is closer to a personal insult.Same.I assume you're referencing: Again "playing dumb" is an idiom that describes something the author thinks you are doing - perhaps making the implied claim that the author is hypersensitive and by being even more so yourself you can excuse the behavior of others - "silly" in this case, in English is descriptive of the topic of the sentence which is "playing dumb".  So again this isn't a personal critique per se.

Just to contrast that with "shill".   Which is someone who's actions or opinions are available for hire is a lot harder to use in a sense that is impersonal.  For example you could say that "criticizing OU is the behavior of a shill" but it's also the behavior of the vast majority of people in the world.  So not a very useful usage.  You could attempt to turn it into an adjective but the words "shill-like" "shillish" are uncommon in usage.  Hence it's not exactly unreasonable to brand the term "shill" as a more personal insult than "stupid" which could be applied to all sorts of acts.

Anyway it's not that "shill" is the ultimate insult or anything but insults applied to ones person - rather than ones actions - are at least imprecise and I can at least understand why someone would want them to stop.  As opposed to yourself who is putting a fair amount of work into a "you're just as bad" ploy.   Anyway I'm not really pushing for a complete halt to insults as anyone here knows I've called profits, Joel, allcandian and SeaMonkey various names....all of which they deserved.

Well people can read it however they want. Name calling, abusive tone, intolerant, and certainly disrespectful is how I would describe his behaviour in this thread. For someone wanting respect, he's going about it all the wrong way.  He wants to call people names when he feels it's "appropriate". This is starting to feel like a conversation with 14 YO.

Quote from: Jimboot on February 17, 2015, 02:15:06 PM

Well people can read it however they want. Name calling, abusive tone, intolerant, and certainly disrespectful is how I would describe his behaviour in this thread. For someone wanting respect, he's going about it all the wrong way.  He wants to call people names when he feels it's "appropriate". This is starting to feel like a conversation with 14 YO.

Do you not see a difference between calling someone stupid and saying that they are acting stupidly?

Describing someone's behavior is not the same as describing the person him/herself.  I have run into this before on this, and other forums and...evidently, a lot of folks do not act like there is a difference, but there is.

Bill

Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 17, 2015, 02:20:11 PM
Do you not see a difference between calling someone stupid and saying that they are acting stupidly?

Describing someone's behavior is not the same as describing the person him/herself.  I have run into this before on this, and other forums and...evidently, a lot of folks do not act like there is a difference, but there is.

Bill

Yes and if you had read the whole thread you would see I pointed that out.
It's quite simple really - treat others as you would like to be treated.

Quote from: Jimboot on February 17, 2015, 02:30:34 PM
Yes and if you had read the whole thread you would see I pointed that out.
It's quite simple really - treat others as you would like to be treated.

I had an ex-girlfriend (Note the EX) that told me this was wrong.  She told me I should treat others as THEY want to be treated, not as I wanted to.
Of course, she was nuts.

Bill

Quote from: Jimboot on February 17, 2015, 02:15:06 PM
Well people can read it however they want.

Not true.

QuoteName calling

Again, very little of this appears to happen in the normal English sense of the term.

Quoteabusive tone

Posts have no tone in the strictest sense of the term.

Quoteintolerant

Of what exactly?

Quoteand certainly disrespectful

In what sense other than "namecalling"?

QuoteFor someone wanting respect, he's going about it all the wrong way.

MH appears to be making an ARGUMENT for treating people differently - for example dispensing with the use of the term "shill".  I often expect adults to be able to separate out the argument from the presentation. 

QuoteHe wants to call people names when he feels it's "appropriate".

MH seems to use a different definition of "namecalling" than what you do.  It's difficult to see where your definition begins and ends.  Again, why isn't, in your definition saying that someone is "namecalling" is also namecalling?

Quote
This is starting to feel like a conversation with 14 YO.

This is what I mean.  Under my definition of "namecalling" this doesn't qualify but under yours which includes saying that someone is engaging in "immature baby talk".  It seems like it would.

As far as I'm concerned I can at least see the reason why MH might want to call for a stop to terms like "shill".  You haven't made a very good case for whatever you're saying.

Quote from: Sar-Ke-Izzzzen
...
Anyway I'm not really pushing for a complete halt to insults as anyone here knows I've called profits, Joel, allcandian and SeaMonkey various names....all of which they deserved.

Aye, and so ye have.  And I take no offense.

After all, it is just conversation.

It is role playing.

It is a process.

Quote from: Jimboot on February 17, 2015, 02:15:06 PM

Well people can read it however they want. Name calling, abusive tone, intolerant, and certainly disrespectful is how I would describe his behaviour in this thread. For someone wanting respect, he's going about it all the wrong way.  He wants to call people names when he feels it's "appropriate". This is starting to feel like a conversation with 14 YO.

I will do this one more time.

For starters, SeaMonkey makes a strange Orwellian posting similar to "War is Peace" or "Freedom is Slavery."  He says that insulting someone online really means you like them.

I state that what SeaMonkey said is pretentious.

Then you make a snarky posting and I ask you what you are talking about.

You try to justify your snarky posting by claiming that saying to someone that they are pretentious is bad and unacceptable behaviour.

Well, Jimboot, your argument itself is pretentious.  And now you are stuck in the little box you trapped yourself in and you are pulling out all the stops to tread water.  And that includes a lot of underhanded nasty comments while still professing that you are an innocent angel that hasn't said anything bad.

My point for this thread has been made.  You cannot call someone a shill or government agent because you can't possibly know that.  Nor can you know if some mentally unstable person or persons out there are reading your defamatory postings, and they want to go out in a blaze of glory by attacking some poor innocent person.  That's where the personal responsibility comes in.  For example, recently some people got gunned down and murdered in Denmark.

Personally, I don't even believe that you believe your own pitch yourself.  If you truly believed it then you would not have called me a troll, would you?  I just think that you are trapped.

MileHigh

Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 17, 2015, 02:59:20 PM
I had an ex-girlfriend (Note the EX) that told me this was wrong.  She told me I should treat others as THEY want to be treated, not as I wanted to.
Of course, she was nuts.

Bill

You crack me up  ;D ;D

Quote from: MileHigh on February 17, 2015, 03:25:37 PM
I will do this one more time.

For starters, SeaMonkey makes a strange Orwellian posting similar to "War is Peace" or "Freedom is Slavery."  He says that insulting someone online really means you like them.

I state that what SeaMonkey said is pretentious.

Then you make a snarky posting and I ask you what you are talking about.

You try to justify your snarky posting by claiming that saying to someone that they are pretentious is bad and unacceptable behaviour.

Well, Jimboot, your argument itself is pretentious.  And now you are stuck in the little box you trapped yourself in and you are pulling out all the stops to tread water.  And that includes a lot of underhanded nasty comments while still professing that you are an innocent angel that hasn't said anything bad.

My point for this thread has been made.  You cannot call someone a shill or government agent because you can't possibly know that.  Nor can you know if some mentally unstable person or persons out there are reading your defamatory postings, and they want to go out in a blaze of glory by attacking some poor innocent person.  That's where the personal responsibility comes in.  For example, recently some people got gunned down and murdered in Denmark.

Personally, I don't even believe that you believe your own pitch yourself.  If you truly believed it then you would not have called me a troll, would you?  I just think that you are trapped.

MileHigh

You are a fascinating study

Quote from: Jimboot on February 17, 2015, 03:27:32 PM
You are a fascinating study

Well in my opinion in this discussion you have been a faker.  Try to be real if there is a next time where we end up debating something.

Quote from: SeaMonkey on February 17, 2015, 03:08:33 PM
Aye, and so ye have.  And I take no offense.

After all, it is just conversation.

Conversation, where I come from involves two people discussing a topic.  Something you can't manage very well or very long. :)

Quote from: sarkeizen on February 17, 2015, 03:38:59 PM
Conversation, where I come from involves two people discussing a topic.  Something you can't manage very well or very long. :)

When entering into a discussion you may either
accept things as they are, or you may insist that
things be done 'your way.' :o ::)

Tolerance is a wonderful thing! :) ;) ;D :-*

Quote from: SeaMonkey on February 17, 2015, 04:01:37 PM
When entering into a discussion

Which requires at least two people talking around a point.  Which you can't do very long or very well. :)

Quoteinsist that things be done 'your way.'

Like the way you demand and coerce people to your beliefs before you will treat them like rational people.  :)

I'm not demanding anyone converse with me.  I just think it's silly to call the propagandizing you do as "conversation". :)

Quote from: MileHigh on February 17, 2015, 03:35:22 PM
Well in my opinion in this discussion you have been a faker.  Try to be real if there is a next time where we end up debating something.

LOL I have learned more about you in this thread than any of your other posts. I get it now. I don't even know what you mean by the above statement. It's like something my Grandson would say.

Here's a prime example of you being a disingenuous faker:

<<< No. I have no opinion as I have not spent time in the military. Have you?  >>>

QuoteI don't even know what you mean by the above statement. It's like something my Grandson would say.

Probably what he means is that you seem to be acting hypersensitive.  I'd guess that's because most of the things you appear to be calling disrespectful are considerably more obscure than calling someone a shill.  That's not meant to invalidate how you feel about things.  I'd just say that I often hear, even in a business context people refer to someone as "playing dumb" without it coming to blows.  I'm pretty sure if I called someone in the board room (of the shadow government for whom I work) a "shill".  That might just happen and if it wasn't a physical blow then I might expect some papers served.

Again, I expect that MH thinks this behavior of yours is an attempt to invalidate his argument that people shouldn't say "shill".  So he believe that your objections are not things you are actually offended by but rather foils to make a point.  People do this all the time as far as I can tell. :)

Anyway when you need a statistician to explain emotional nuance of a conversation to you.  I think that's a good sign you need to get out more.

Quote from: sarkeizen on February 17, 2015, 06:15:28 PM
Probably what he means is that you seem to be acting hypersensitive.  I'd guess that's because most of the things you appear to be calling disrespectful are considerably more obscure than calling someone a shill.  That's not meant to invalidate how you feel about things.  I'd just say that I often hear, even in a business context people refer to someone as "playing dumb" without it coming to blows.  I'm pretty sure if I called someone in the board room (of the shadow government for whom I work) a "shill".  That might just happen and if it wasn't a physical blow then I might expect some papers served.

Again, I expect that MH thinks this behavior of yours is an attempt to invalidate his argument that people shouldn't say "shill".  So he believe that your objections are not things you are actually offended by but rather foils to make a point.  People do this all the time as far as I can tell. :)

Well I'm certainly not trying to invalidate his first post in this thread. I think that is a lofty goal. A robust discussion is good but personal attacks are not. SO I certainly agree with him. Shill is not a word used here in AU so you may as well call me a flibbertygibbet . It's not offensive to me. I'm in no way hypersensitive. I think I've been very measured in my responses and have avoided using colourful labels unlike others.


My main issue is that if we want to pursue the goal of mutual respect and personal responsibility we will not get there if individuals think they can use personal abuse when they think it's "appropriate". That's a nonsense. He only seems to want mutual respect if it's on his terms with his rules.

Quote from: MileHigh on February 17, 2015, 06:14:58 PM
Here's a prime example of you being a disingenuous faker:

<<< No. I have no opinion as I have not spent time in the military. Have you?  >>>

How? I have no idea if that happens in the military. Do you not understand that is another personal attack? Is this another instance of an "appropriate" insult? I'm sure you wouldn't call me that to my face but you think it's ok to do anonymously? It's quite a cowardly practice.

Quote from: Jimboot on February 17, 2015, 08:08:18 PM
How? I have no idea if that happens in the military. Do you not understand that is another personal attack? Is this another instance of an "appropriate" insult? I'm sure you wouldn't call me that to my face but you think it's ok to do anonymously? It's quite a cowardly practice.

Here is the question I posed to you:  "Do you agree with the above statement or not when it comes to the online forums?"

This is the second time through this loop.  I am not talking about the military and I have to assume as a fully grown man you completely comprehend the question.  So I have to attribute your nonsense reply as you intentionally faking it.  You can put up your front as long as you want but I am saying the truth.  It's not a personal attack.  If you choose to behave like this then I am stating what I see.  You are being so pretentious that you can't even bring yourself to answer a question that any normal person could easily answer.  It's very tiring so let's just drop the whole thing and move on.

Quote from: MileHigh on February 17, 2015, 08:32:28 PM
Here is the question I posed to you:  "Do you agree with the above statement or not when it comes to the online forums?"

This is the second time through this loop.  I am not talking about the military and I have to assume as a fully grown man you completely comprehend the question.  So I have to attribute your nonsense reply as you intentionally faking it.  You can put up your front as long as you want but I am saying the truth.  It's not a personal attack.  If you choose to behave like this then I am stating what I see.  You are being so pretentious that you can't even bring yourself to answer a question that any normal person could easily answer.  It's very tiring so let's just drop the whole thing and move on.

Please explain to me the difference then.


You are being so pretentious
You are being such a shill
You are a smart ass
You're brain is frying
etc, etc


In my book there is no difference all are personal attacks, which you think is ok if YOU deem it "appropriate". I don't know you but its very narcissistic behaviour or at the very least  someone with immature social skills. For instance I could understand that from a 14y.o.

Forget it.  You can't even answer a straight question so I am done.

Quote from: MileHigh on February 17, 2015, 09:29:23 PM
Forget it.  You can't even answer a straight question so I am done.

You asked if he was being pretentious? I don't know so I cant answer. You on the other believe you can toss around labels on others whilst at the same time object about labels being used on you and you can't see the hypocrisy

Quote from: Jimboot on February 17, 2015, 08:54:29 PM
Please explain to me the difference then.

You are being so pretentious
You are being such a shill

This has been explained a few times.  Saying someone is "a shill" is, in English a PERSON who is promoting something because they are paid or as if they are paid. Hence it is virtually always about a person - the notable exception is when it is being used as a verb.  Which is not the case in your example or in most of the uses I've seen here.  So it is difficult to create a phrase where it is not an attack on a person.  Whereas "pretentious" isn't a person.  An advertisement can be pretentious an advertisement can not be a shill (An advertisement can be said "to shill" or perhaps it can be "shilling").  A PERSON can be a shill who manifests this by advertising something.  Similarly "playing dumb" isn't a person.  It's an action performed by a person.

Hence it's pretty obvious why someone would like to differentiate between some terms which are almost necessarily personal attacks and  terms which are not necessarily personal attacks.  Your desire not to see this is interesting.

Quote from: sarkeizen on February 18, 2015, 12:40:14 AM
This has been explained a few times.  Saying someone is "a shill" is, in English a PERSON who is promoting something because they are paid or as if they are paid. Hence it is virtually always about a person - the notable exception is when it is being used as a verb.  Which is not the case in your example or in most of the uses I've seen here.  So it is difficult to create a phrase where it is not an attack on a person.  Whereas "pretentious" isn't a person.  An advertisement can be pretentious an advertisement can not be a shill (An advertisement can be said "to shill" or perhaps it can be "shilling").  A PERSON can be a shill who manifests this by advertising something.  Similarly "playing dumb" isn't a person.  It's an action performed by a person.

Hence it's pretty obvious why someone would like to differentiate between some terms which are almost necessarily personal attacks and  terms which are not necessarily personal attacks.  Your desire not to see this is interesting.

Yeah I don't think English is your first language. No offence.

Quote from: Jimboot on February 18, 2015, 12:50:14 AM

Yeah I don't think English is your first language. No offence.

Believe it or not, most of those whose English is their first language, they can't express themselves WRITING in English (more or less, they are unable to do so and reasons of that are numerous).
My English IS NOT my first one and I am aware that I make errors in that (my original) one. And I can't help for that.

Quote from: Jimboot on February 18, 2015, 12:50:14 AM
Yeah I don't think English is your first language.

Actually it is.

Not only that but don't you think it's interesting that I can be pretty specific about what and where you are incorrect and you only seem able to ignore and make broad generalizations.

A personal attack, is pretty universally meant to be an attack on the person not as a description of something they are doing or saying.

Quote from: sarkeizen on February 18, 2015, 07:03:22 AM
Actually it is.

Not only that but don't you think it's interesting that I can be pretty specific about what and where you are incorrect and you only seem able to ignore and make broad generalizations.

A personal attack, is pretty universally meant to be an attack on the person not as a description of something they are doing or saying.

Well you're deliberately ignoring context then and no I don't find it interesting. My original argument was simple. Treat people how you want to be treated, especially in a thread where you're asking people to be nice probably a good idea to call people names. pretty simple age old concept.

Quote from: Jimboot on February 18, 2015, 03:25:58 PM
Well you're deliberately ignoring context then

No I understand the context.  You think that saying that someone is "playing dumb" among other things is a personal attack equivalent to calling someone a shill.

QuoteMy original argument was simple. Treat people how you want to be treated

Technically speaking as far as you know MH is doing just that.  MH appears primarily to be asking for people to stop calling people "shills".  Has he called you a "shill"?  No.  QED.  Your belief that "shill" is equivalent to "playing dumb", "pretentious", "zebra", "kumquat" or "ma petit chou" isn't actually that relevant to this particular argument.  As far as you know MH's behavior is exactly the way he would like to be treated.

Your attempt to argue word X is equal to word Y seems like it can be summed up as: "I feel they are the same".  Which is fine, feel anyway you want about any word but clearly that can't be SUFFICIENT for EVERYONE to consider a word equivalent to some other word.  Unless of course at some point in time you were voted "king of words" and I didn't get the memo. 

So if you are indeed not lexical royalty then you need to argue your point.  In contrast I've given you some pretty detailed reasons why someone might consider various words you've mentioned different.  Even if you don't get it.  The argument is there.

Quotepretty simple age old concept.

But not relevant without an argument. :)

Quote from: Sar-Ke-Izzzzen
...
Technically speaking as far as you know MH is doing just that.  MH appears primarily to be asking for people to stop calling people "shills".  Has he called you a "shill"?  No.  QED.  Your belief that "shill" is equivalent to "playing dumb", "pretentious", "zebra", "kumquat" or "ma petit chou" isn't actually that relevant to this particular argument.  As far as you know MH's behavior is exactly the way he would like to be treated.
...

Miles must be aware at some level of the Laws of
Interpersonal Relations.  Among them:  The Seed
We Sow Will in Due Time Bear Fruit.  :o

Whether that Fruit which comes back to us is delightfully
fragrant and tasteful or bitter and annoying is entirely
dependent upon the Seeds We Sow. ::)

When we are displeased with the Fruit our Model Behaviors
bring back to us, then perhaps a wee bit of Behavior
Modification is in Order. :-*

It has been said long ago:  Courtesy is Contagious 8)

Quote from: sarkeizen on February 18, 2015, 04:06:07 PM
No I understand the context.  You think that saying that someone is "playing dumb" among other things is a personal attack equivalent to calling someone a shill.Technically speaking as far as you know MH is doing just that.  MH appears primarily to be asking for people to stop calling people "shills".  Has he called you a "shill"?  No.  QED.  Your belief that "shill" is equivalent to "playing dumb", "pretentious", "zebra", "kumquat" or "ma petit chou" isn't actually that relevant to this particular argument.  As far as you know MH's behavior is exactly the way he would like to be treated.

Your attempt to argue word X is equal to word Y seems like it can be summed up as: "I feel they are the same".  Which is fine, feel anyway you want about any word but clearly that can't be SUFFICIENT for EVERYONE to consider a word equivalent to some other word.  Unless of course at some point in time you were voted "king of words" and I didn't get the memo. 

So if you are indeed not lexical royalty then you need to argue your point.  In contrast I've given you some pretty detailed reasons why someone might consider various words you've mentioned different.  Even if you don't get it.  The argument is there.But not relevant without an argument. :)

Thats like saying, if you 'steal' $50,000, then that is not equal to 'stealing' $1000.  They are at different levels, but still the same crime in the end. Who is to say that the loss of $1000 doesnt hurt that individual possibly more than the one that lost $50,000? ;)

If you want to set levels of 'tolerance' for what is considered an attack, then we all have our own opinions that vary on that, including yours.  You think you are right, Mh thinks he is right, Jim thinks he is right, etc.  If someone is right, then some others must be wrong.

The idea of shill being here on this site is not an impossibility. Sure you can say, "there are no shills here, because free energy does not exist." That is a potentially very shill statement. And if there is free energy, then why should we still neglect the possibility of shills here? If you take in particular the ones that get called shills, look at their attendance here. Many many hours of each day, bing, bang, boom, from the left and the right, bombarding a thread that produces a possible claim.  Like 'this' is their calling??? This is what all that book learnin produces in the end?  If these guys really do believe there is no possibility of FE, then why spend sooo much time in attacking a claimant until the thread is whittled down to a useless twig and falls of the front page for good? Why soo much time spent, on that? I can think of a 'lot' of things that their supposed technical genius could be put to better use rather than belittle and try to put to shame a claimant here.

If you think that oil corporations, electric companies dont 'fear' the possibility of what may be found or developed here on this site or others, then I say your terribly wrong.

Oil corp, the reasons are obvious. Electric co., once they said, "Great, yes, put up solar panes people, and if you produce more than you need, we will buy excess from you." But now, they want to charge you more for using power from them if your system only helps reduce electric costs and you still need grid part time...  Is that right? Or is that wrong? Monopoly on power? Yes.

Its about total control. No free power. In fact, no free water.  A city granted a land owner a permit to put a pond on his land. Then once it was dug out and filled with water, the permit was nulled ( epa influence) and he was told to fill it back in, "because the rain water he catches is not his to catch." :o ::)


I believe there are shills here. Cant say for sure. But some sure do act in such ways that its hard to neglect the possibilities. ;)

Mags

Quote from: SeaMonkey on February 18, 2015, 05:06:16 PM
Miles must be aware at some level of the Laws of Interpersonal Relations.

Ah but those are always subservient to the Seven-Fold Law of Interdynamics and the Fifteen maxims of Powerful Women.  So clearly my argument trumps yours.

Making up SeaMonkey text is easy.

Quote from: Magluvin on February 18, 2015, 06:41:26 PM
Thats like saying, if you 'steal' $50,000, then that is not equal to 'stealing' $1000.  They are at different levels, but still the same crime in the end. Who is to say that the loss of $1000 doesnt hurt that individual possibly more than the one that lost $50,000? ;)

You need to be more specific when you quote a whole post and say "that" but thankfully nothing I said is anything like what you describe.  The person I was responding to attempted to say that MH wasn't "Doing unto others".  I merely pointed out that he can't really say that with any degree of certainty.  MH might be perfectly ok with someone saying he is "playing dumb" or "pretentious".

QuoteIf you want to set levels of 'tolerance' for what is considered an attack, then we all have our own opinions that vary on that, including yours.  You think you are right, Mh thinks he is right, Jim thinks he is right, etc.  If someone is right, then some others must be wrong.

No, again I'm not saying any of that and you are making the same logical error that Jim is.  This probably isn't about levels of anything.  MH appears to think that being called a "shill" should stop.  That's it.  Either you agree or you don't.  Jim has a much longer and poorly defined list of things he believes should be on the forbidden word list.  You can either agree or you don't.

As I've said before.  I personally don't mind but it's pretty easy to see MH's point and of Jim has a point he really hasn't given much of a definition of it or argument for it.

QuoteThe idea of shill being here on this site is not an impossibility.

This is irrelevant.  Calling someone a shill can still be a bad idea even if there's some remote chance it's true.

QuoteIf you take in particular the ones that get called shills, look at their attendance here. Many many hours of each day, bing, bang, boom, from the left and the right, bombarding a thread that produces a possible claim.  Like 'this' is their calling??? This is what all that book learnin produces in the end?  If these guys really do believe there is no possibility of FE, then why spend sooo much time in attacking a claimant until the thread is whittled down to a useless twig and falls of the front page for good? Why soo much time spent, on that? I can think of a 'lot' of things that their supposed technical genius could be put to better use rather than belittle and try to put to shame a claimant here.

As someone who gets called a shill several times a week here.  I'll see if I can help you understand.

a) I probably spend less time than you think.  I type quickly and a fair amount of my job is spent on a computer.  This message took me less than five minutes for example.
b) Why, spend a lot of time knocking down silly ideas?  Haven't you ever heard the maxim: "You will never learn anything by spending most of your time around people who agree with you?".  Not to mention that bad ideas deserve to die in a fire.
c) Sorry, all of a sudden you are in charge of what I do with my leisure time?  Did we get married?  Seriously I do plenty of extra-circular field-related work this is just for fun.

Seems like a Raw nerve will make things a bit worse,I remember having
a conversation with an acquaintance one day about a simple Poke
on the arm...a little tap to to get someones attention nothing grand or
abusive,  one Tap would not be noticed,ten taps on the same spot....
starts to get a bit uncomfortable ...a hundred taps.....a thousand.. :o 
At what point does a simple poke or Jab become torture ?
a water drop......

Here we have become very overstimulated with Taps until they become
like Punches and kicks...


  maybe we can start to recognize that sometimes a tap can be perceived as assault


Its all perspective..
and Maybe if you understand that different parts of the world require
different levels of respect,In NYC maybe you won't get a knuckle sandwich
for "playing Dumb" perhaps just a good poke in the chest as an "adjustment"


I like what Jim Boot lives by "Do onto others as you would have done to you"
it keeps me out of trouble,if I can't do that... well I need to get quiet somewhere
and figure out what to do...

Of one thing I am certain, we need to figure out what to do here.
because we have a lot to get Done.


just one mans opinion


Chet

Quote from: Sar-Ke-Izzzzzen
Ah but those are always subservient to the Seven-Fold Law of Interdynamics and the Fifteen maxims of Powerful Women.  So clearly my argument trumps yours.

Making up SeaMonkey text is easy.

Your desperately feeble attempts are in the same
league as many of your touted 'studies.' ???

Fake.  Fabricated.  Made-up. ;)

But revealing none-the-less. ::)

You're coming across as 'pudsy-whipped' dude! :o

Quote from: sarkeizen on February 18, 2015, 07:03:22 AMNot only that but don't you think it's interesting that I can be pretty specific about what and where you are incorrect and you only seem able to ignore and make broad generalizations.

Nothing is interesting about anything you have written that I have happened to read. Nothing.

Quote from: sarkeizen on February 18, 2015, 07:03:22 AMA personal attack, is pretty universally meant to be an attack on the person not as a description of something they are doing or saying.

What?!

You have proved yourself to be almost unbelievably naive in regard to normal human behavior, in just your one sentence.

A normal human might say to you, sarkeizen, "sark, I find your behavior to be frequently unjustifiably sarcastic and criticizing without a reasonable basis." Or, meaning exactly the same message, "sark, I find you to be a bitch and a moron because I think I am doing the best I can, but you are seemingly too stupid to understand my rationale for my behavior."

In both cases, the normal human most often will have no concern about attacking YOU, but only are concerned about wanting to see a correction in your BEHAVIOR.

From your point of view, you can protect your ego and fool yourself that you are doing nothing wrong, and say, to yourself "I'm DOING alright, they just DON"T LIKE ME."

Just a secret between you and me...your "voice" is strongly reminiscent of a rather poorly written Artificial Intelligence program.

Are you a BOT?


CANGAS 137

Quote from: CANGAS on February 19, 2015, 05:28:11 AM
Are you a BOT?


CANGAS 137

Lol.


this what I do as a day job 




http://youtu.be/1jZHxNKCj0Q


So I'd be a "shill" if Google were paying me? They're not btw

Quote from: SeaMonkey on February 19, 2015, 01:56:54 AM
Your desperately feeble attempts are in the same league as many of your touted 'studies.' ???

I knew I got your goat about your Wakefield post. :)

QuoteFake.  Fabricated.  Made-up. ;)

Please point out where I've referenced a study that isn't real and I'll be happy to provide a cite to the actual journal.

QuoteYou're coming across as 'pudsy-whipped' dude!

Is that supposed to be sexist?

Quote from: CANGAS on February 19, 2015, 05:28:11 AM
Nothing is interesting about anything you have written that I have happened to read. Nothing.

Ah well.  You can't please everyone.  Still Jimboot can't seem to actually indicate how I've "ignored the context" or what specifically makes him think English isn't my primary language.  On the other hand I seem able to point precisely where Jim seems to be misinterpreted MH and how.

QuoteYou have proved yourself to be almost unbelievably naive in regard to normal human behavior, in just your one sentence.

All I said was that the English use of "personal attack" or namecalling (which is what this was about before people started lowering the bar to "nice") differentiates between criticizing ones actions and characterizing oneself.

QuoteIn both cases, the normal human most often will have no concern about attacking YOU, but only are concerned about wanting to see a correction in your BEHAVIOR.

Glad we agree.  These are not necessarily personal attacks.

QuoteFrom your point of view, you can protect your ego and fool yourself that you are doing nothing wrong, and say, to yourself "I'm DOING alright, they just DON"T LIKE ME."

Uh perhaps it wasn't clear but I'm not talking about my opinion on the use of these words.  I'm simply stating that I understand MH's POV.  I can "see" his argument.  Jimboot not so much.  Might I suggest that one thing that assures that you'll never see anything interesting in what I write is when you don't read much of it. :)  Yes, I'm deliberately acerbic I'm sure that stops some people from talking with me or helps them justify some silly behavior like Cap-Mo-Ron's puppy-dog trolling or SeaMonkeys "post and run" behavior.  It doesn't concern me because this is just entertainment.  However unlike both of those posters I do provide a clear, thoughtful argument when presented with something that isn't entirely stupid (and references upon request).

QuoteJust a secret between you and me...your "voice" is strongly reminiscent of a rather poorly written Artificial Intelligence program.

I get that you're just trying to be insulting and that's really your affair but as someone who understand more of that field than you ever will I'd just point out that if I was an AI you could win any Turing-Test style competition bar-none.

What is a person, besides their behaviour? On the internet, the only observable characteristic of a person is their behaviour.

Quote from: TinselKoala on February 19, 2015, 04:08:03 PM
What is a person, besides their behaviour? On the internet, the only observable characteristic of a person is their behaviour.

I'm also dead sexy.

Some simple common sense thoughts.

On this and related forums calling someone a shill or government agent is almost like calling someone a child molester or a rapist.  There is no way that you can know that and the vast majority of what you see with respect to electronic circuits around here is at an introductory high school level.  That's just the realty.  So you should not use these terms because you can't possibly know this is true, and there is no real rational basis for stating it anyway.  Some nutjob could believe these unfounded allegations and attack someone.  Just open your eyes and look at the world news to see it does happen on a regular basis.  So here is were prejudice, safety and personal responsibility are the main considerations for the poster.

If someone is truly trolling, then go ahead and call them a troll because it is justified.  Something like, "You are trolling me because 20 out or your last 25 posts say the same thing and you are just disrupting the thread and not advancing your argument."  (or they are just saying stupid nonsense)

However, calling someone a troll just because they disagree with you is completely wrong.  It's a total cop-out.  That's were mutual respect and personal responsibility come into play.

Likewise, just saying "don't listen to the trolls" is also completely wrong.  You can't just generalize like that.  If someone is putting forth an idea or a proposition, then that should be discussed.  Brushing off people before they even say something is wrong.

You can't "ban language" as a matter of your own convenience because you are arbitrarily labeling it as "offensive" or "abusive."  I will illustrate this with a simple example.  If someone is disingenuous then what are you supposed to say?  Really, what are you supposed to say?  If a person is being disingenuous are you trying to imply that you can't say that?  Then what are you supposed to do?  Go to the Thesaurus and look for a "non-banned synonym?"  You can see that it doesn't even make sense.

Saying, "You are being disingenuous because of reason X" is a perfectly valid thing to say.
Saying, "You are being disingenuous you stupid jackass" is unacceptable because of "stupid jackass" only.

Probably the most abused and overused term is "troll."  And most of the time it is a total cop out.  Somebody puts forward a ridiculous proposition and someone else calls it out as being fake and the first thing out of some people's mouths is "You are a troll."  Instead of trying to advance their argument or defend their proposition's technical merits by explaining stuff, i.e.; talk the tech behind your claim, instead they just say, "You are a troll."  People that do that start to diminish the credibility of their proposition and themselves personally when they do that.

I will throw in a final issue.  It's about your own self-respect and credibility as people interested in free energy.  If you don't ask questions or are afraid to ask questions then you diminish your own collective self-respect and credibility.  Look at the example of RomeroUK.  In his example. all of the generator coils were connected to a common DC output bus using an FWBR connected to each generator coil.  It was that common DC output bus that was supposed to connect back to the input to create a self-runner.  In the initial excitement nobody asked Romero to show the scope trace for the common DC output bus.  It made the group five years ago look like fools with no self-respect and no credibility.  I am not talking about the credibility of the person making the proposition, I am talking about the credibility of the enthusiastic observers and the people that wanted to build replications.  It's like they had no credibility or self-respect to simply ask for some relevant data.  As we know, it took Wattsup to find the hidden wires in the video.  If the group of enthusiasts had enough self-respect to ask RomeroUK to scope the DC output bus and make a few other measurements, Romero would have been busted without the need to look at the individual frames in his video clips.

Quote from: TinselKoala on February 19, 2015, 04:08:03 PM
What is a person, besides their behaviour? On the internet, the only observable characteristic of a person is their behaviour.

Exactly - you are what you publish, as my good mate David Meerman Scott says. (Business author)

Quote from: TinselKoala on February 19, 2015, 04:08:03 PM
What is a person, besides their behaviour? On the internet, the only observable characteristic of a person is their behaviour.

I'll take this a step further, in my day job I'm constantly working with business owners on their personal & business brands. Sometimes I have to explain to a client that what they are publishing in text makes them sound like a pompous arsehole and they need to change the tone of what they publish. Yes sarky, the tone. Text is not a good medium for communication when compared with AV. That's how emoticons evolved.
You dickhead  ;D
is very different to
You dickhead!
So if all people know of you is your text then you better make sure it's how you want to be perceived. If you don't care that's fine, just don't be surprised if people disrespect you if you disrespect others. It's social media 101.

Quote from: Jimboot on February 19, 2015, 05:46:20 PM
Yes sarky, the tone.

A better word would be inference or connotation.  Such as using a diminutive for someones name or title connotes disrespect.

QuoteIf you don't care that's fine, just don't be surprised if people disrespect you if you disrespect others.

Which isn't really what this was about.  Clearly anything you feel disrespected by does not validate any and all disrespect...or maybe to you it does but that would kind of make you the "bad" person.  So I'm not sure where you're going with this. :)

Quote
It's social media 101.

So according to you anything you type should be what you want to be known by.  So....the common trope that people who consult on social media are often perceived as unskilled know-nothings...should mean what here? :)

Quote from: MileHigh on February 19, 2015, 05:04:49 PM
On this and related forums calling someone a shill or government agent is almost like calling someone a child molester or a rapist.  There is no way that you can know that and the vast majority of what you see with respect to electronic circuits around here is at an introductory high school level.  That's just the realty.  So you should not use these terms because you can't possibly know this is true, and there is no real rational basis for stating it anyway.

This is another good point which differentiates "shill".  It's almost entirely an unknowable based on the information you could gather from this board.

OTOH, only a shill would say that.

Quote from: sarkeizen on February 19, 2015, 06:29:01 PM
A better word would be inference or connotation.  Such as using a diminutive for someones name or title connotes disrespect. Which isn't really what this was about.  Clearly anything you feel disrespected by does not validate any and all disrespect...or maybe to you it does but that would kind of make you the "bad" person.  So I'm not sure where you're going with this. :)So according to you anything you type should be what you want to be known by.  So....the common trope that people who consult on social media are often perceived as unskilled know-nothings...should mean what here? :)

Ok I suspect you're being a contrarian or just like a good argument which is cool. :) firstly have you done much writing? Prose can have a tone. A humorous one, a serious one a abusive one etc. it's the general feel that a piece can carry. For instance


Let's eat, grandma


Can take on foreboding or sinister tone if you omit the comma.


I've written a lot over the last 30 years. Plays, skits blog posts, ad copy etc. I've also performed professionally as an actor as well as appeared as an expert on numerous media outlets. It will probably surprise you to learn that in all these  circles it's common practice to refer to prose or performance as having a "tone" .


I would agree that just because you feel disrespected doesn't mean that was the intent, which validates to some extent sea monkeys argument.


Your last argument is a little confusing. I'm not an social media expert. Im a digital marketing specialist. I would agree that anything you publish is how others perceive you. Like it or not. I can't control what others say about me. All I can control is how I react.


Do you need some online crisis management? I can recommend some fantastic practitioners.


It's easier if you're anon I guess. You can abuse ppl all you like and then pick up another handle when you've destroyed your reputation on the first. One of my good mates who consults to sporting teams tells them just to be yourself on social media.... Unless you're a dickhead

Quote from: cangasQuote

    Just a secret between you and me...your "voice" is strongly reminiscent of a rather poorly written Artificial Intelligence program.

Quote from: SARKEI get that you're just trying to be insulting and that's really your affair but as someone who understand more of that field than you ever will I'd just point out that if I was an AI you could win any Turing-Test style competition bar-none.

You lose. Your guess about my intent is completely, perfectly, wrong.

I had no intention of making you feel insulted. I was simply stating my strong conclusion. I genuinely have concluded that there is a fairly high probability that you are a computer program, not a real human.

Your comment enables me to see your strongly defined paranoia and your well exhibited delusional trait. Which is simply the detritus left in your code by happenstance. Your author probably doesn't realize that his/her personality is flawed and has therefore left his/her strange personality quirks intact during your compiling.

I have another secret to tell you. I know how to be insulting, I have unfortunately indulged myself in far too much vulgar practice in that field. If I had intended to unjustifiably insult you, you would not have had to imagine an insult and construct one in your imagination, out of the innocent words I actually uttered. I am neither inept nor timid at insulting people. Or, BOTS.   

Quote...... but as someone who understand more of that field than you ever will......

Huh? How can you claim to know how much I know about that, or, any field? You are here doing the same thing you condemn, and your beleaguered friend condemns!! You are making a completely unjustified assumption about me and my knowledge, and, using your assumption to be the base of your insult of me!! Assuming that you are actually human, you are bending over backwards to try to prove yourself to be a very hypocritical, confused, contradictory, person.

CANGAS 138

Cangas:

You are trolling.  You just made a mostly irrational posting about artificial intelligence that everybody knows is not true, including you.  Also, you are trying to claim that I am "beleaguered?"  Nope.

MileHigh

Quote from: Jimboot on February 20, 2015, 03:59:53 AM
it's the general feel that a piece can carry.

Who is feeling what?  You run into a problem when you say things like: "It's the tone of your sentence".  See if "tone" is how you feel.  Then "your" is the wrong word.  My sentence doesn't have a feeling about you.  It's YOU who have a feeling about my sentence.  Now you may be confused as people in real life say something like:"Your response had an accusing tone".  They usually mean an audible quality - we may disagree as to what that quality implies but it's still referencing a different thing than what you are talking about.  Another pitfall for people who aren't wary is the fact that the term"tone" is used in literature but not like you think or how you've used it.  Literary tone is about how words are deliberately used to evoke a feeling the characters in the work have about something.  This is why my statements did not have a tone.  Also if you're not talking about characters the more correct term is "mood". Your example of removing a comma is none of these things it's  better described as a syntax issue. 

Getting back to what you were originally talking about - that "playing dumb" is namecalling - is again more a question of interpretation.  Like when someone uses the word "gyp" to mean "to cheat or swindle" and someone hearing that is offended because to them it is or has it's origins as a racial epithet.  So again, a better term to describe this kind of thing is "connote".  e.g. Gyp has racial connotations and is best avoided.

Don't worry people can write for decades and have the same misapprehensions that you do with regard to the technical aspects.  If you want I can recommend a few good books. 

QuoteYour last argument is a little confusing. I'm not an social media expert.

I didn't say you were.  I just said you published a consultation on social media and that tends to carry with it the idea of unskilled know-nothings.  :) ...and since you said that deliberately I was wondering what you were trying to imply. :)

Quote from: CANGAS on February 20, 2015, 04:05:35 AMYou lose. Your guess about my intent is completely, perfectly, wrong.

Probably not.

QuoteI had no intention of making you feel insulted. I was simply stating my strong conclusion. I genuinely have concluded that there is a fairly high probability that you are a computer program, not a real human.

Oh, please share your algorithm for determining that a corpus of text is from a computer.  That way we can run it on the corpus of my words and see that you're right.  Whoops...you don't know anything about this do you? So I'm sure that no algorithm is forthcoming. :)

QuoteHuh? How can you claim to know how much I know about that, or, any field?

Simple probability.  I know something about how much I know about that field and with that comes a certain knowledge of the state of the art and if you think a computer can carry on a conversation like this then you what you've been studying is closer to Star Trek than "Foundations and Trends in Machine Learning"  :)

Quote from: sarkeizen on February 20, 2015, 11:46:39 AM
Who is feeling what?  You run into a problem when you say things like: "It's the tone of your sentence".  See if "tone" is how you feel.  Then "your" is the wrong word.  My sentence doesn't have a feeling about you.  It's YOU who have a feeling about my sentence.  Now you may be confused as people in real life say something like:"Your response had an accusing tone".  They usually mean an audible quality - we may disagree as to what that quality implies but it's still referencing a different thing than what you are talking about.  Another pitfall for people who aren't wary is the fact that the term"tone" is used in literature but not like you think or how you've used it.  Literary tone is about how words are deliberately used to evoke a feeling the characters in the work have about something.  This is why my statements did not have a tone.  Also if you're not talking about characters the more correct term is "mood". Your example of removing a comma is none of these things it's  better described as a syntax issue. 

Getting back to what you were originally talking about - that "playing dumb" is namecalling - is again more a question of interpretation.  Like when someone uses the word "gyp" to mean "to cheat or swindle" and someone hearing that is offended because to them it is or has it's origins as a racial epithet.  So again, a better term to describe this kind of thing is "connote".  e.g. Gyp has racial connotations and is best avoided.

Don't worry people can write for decades and have the same misapprehensions that you do with regard to the technical aspects.  If you want I can recommend a few good books.  I didn't say you were.  I just said you published a consultation on social media and that tends to carry with it the idea of unskilled know-nothings.  :) ...and since you said that deliberately I was wondering what you were trying to imply. :)

the general character or attitude of a place, piece of writing, situation, etc.
"trust her to lower the tone of the conversation"
[color=rgb(135, 135, 135) !important]

synonyms:mood (https://www.google.com.au/search?num=100&client=safari&hl=en&q=define+mood&sa=X&ei=AJbnVJrdIoTJmAW_4oHgDQ&ved=0CDgQ_SowAA)[/font], quality (https://www.google.com.au/search?num=100&client=safari&hl=en&q=define+quality&sa=X&ei=AJbnVJrdIoTJmAW_4oHgDQ&ved=0CDkQ_SowAA)[/font], feel (https://www.google.com.au/search?num=100&client=safari&hl=en&q=define+feel&sa=X&ei=AJbnVJrdIoTJmAW_4oHgDQ&ved=0CDoQ_SowAA)[/font], style (https://www.google.com.au/search?num=100&client=safari&hl=en&q=define+style&sa=X&ei=AJbnVJrdIoTJmAW_4oHgDQ&ved=0CDsQ_SowAA)[/font], note (https://www.google.com.au/search?num=100&client=safari&hl=en&q=define+note&sa=X&ei=AJbnVJrdIoTJmAW_4oHgDQ&ved=0CDwQ_SowAA)[/font], air (https://www.google.com.au/search?num=100&client=safari&hl=en&q=define+air&sa=X&ei=AJbnVJrdIoTJmAW_4oHgDQ&ved=0CD0Q_SowAA)[/font], attitude (https://www.google.com.au/search?num=100&client=safari&hl=en&q=define+attitude&sa=X&ei=AJbnVJrdIoTJmAW_4oHgDQ&ved=0CD4Q_SowAA)[/font], character (https://www.google.com.au/search?num=100&client=safari&hl=en&q=define+character&sa=X&ei=AJbnVJrdIoTJmAW_4oHgDQ&ved=0CD8Q_SowAA)[/font], spirit (https://www.google.com.au/search?num=100&client=safari&hl=en&q=define+spirit&sa=X&ei=AJbnVJrdIoTJmAW_4oHgDQ&ved=0CEAQ_SowAA)[/font], flavour (https://www.google.com.au/search?num=100&client=safari&hl=en&q=define+flavour&sa=X&ei=AJbnVJrdIoTJmAW_4oHgDQ&ved=0CEEQ_SowAA)[/font], grain (https://www.google.com.au/search?num=100&client=safari&hl=en&q=define+grain&sa=X&ei=AJbnVJrdIoTJmAW_4oHgDQ&ved=0CEIQ_SowAA)[/font], temper (https://www.google.com.au/search?num=100&client=safari&hl=en&q=define+temper&sa=X&ei=AJbnVJrdIoTJmAW_4oHgDQ&ved=0CEMQ_SowAA)[/font], humour (https://www.google.com.au/search?num=100&client=safari&hl=en&q=define+humour&sa=X&ei=AJbnVJrdIoTJmAW_4oHgDQ&ved=0CEQQ_SowAA)[/font], effect (https://www.google.com.au/search?num=100&client=safari&hl=en&q=define+effect&sa=X&ei=AJbnVJrdIoTJmAW_4oHgDQ&ved=0CEUQ_SowAA)[/font]; More i published a consultation on social media? Nope. You're just making things up now and taking things out of context. you also seem to have issues with skilled professionals and keep referring to a massive industry as know nothing's. Like your mate you're anonymous so I guess you don't care but I be wasted too much time on you already. For all I know you could be a bot. They are being used quite a bit these days for writing. Anyway I can't take anyone seriously, like your mate who is anonymous in a conversation like this. i tend to think of them as cowards.

[/color]

raising/lowering tone of the conversation is better classified as idiom.  There's a simple linguistic test for that.  Surprised that a writer doesn't know it. :)

Quote from: Jimboot on February 20, 2015, 03:39:29 PM
i published a consultation on social media? Nope.

You did call something "social media 101".  That seems to imply some expertise doesn't it? Isn't that consulting?  Seems like it. You posted it here.  That's publishing in your book. So the right answer is "yep". :)

QuoteYou also seem to have issues with skilled professionals and keep referring to a massive industry as know nothing's.

You're cute when you're defensive. Also your statement seems to imply that a massive industry is somehow a counter to the idea that it might be entirely peopled with know-nothings.  Is that what you're saying.  Sure seems like it. :)

Anyway if you, the writer were paying attention at some point.  You would see I talk about two things in reference to know-nothings that the idea of social media consulting carries with it (or connotes) that (in my second use) and prior to that I referred to the idea as a common trope. Neither of these things assert the position that you made up.  Seriously for someone who seems to be preaching about words mattering you really don't pay much attention to other peoples.

Quotebut I be wasted

That may be your problem right there. :)

QuoteFor all I know you could be a bot.

I think the key phrase there is "for all I know".

QuoteThey are being used quite a bit these days for writing.

They are, however writing is not the same thing as conversation.  If you get around to reading what I write it's pretty clear I'm responding to what you say with considerable detail and attention.  Something there is no bot for - at least right now.

QuoteAnyway I can't take anyone seriously, like your mate who is anonymous in a conversation like this.

...and I'm sure you're much more formidable when you're taking things seriously...or one would hope. :)

Quotei tend to think of them as cowards

This is a good example of rhetoric instead of reason.  Why would someone care if an argument comes from a coward?  Ideas stand or fall on their own.

QuoteAnyway I can't take anyone seriously, like your mate who is anonymous in a conversation like this. i tend to think of them as cowards.

So after all of the text cranked out beforehand about being offended by the use of the term "disingenuous" now you call nearly everybody on this forum a coward and you show no respect for their desire for personal privacy and safety.  The reason you are public is because you use the medium of the Internet to make your living.  The vast majority of us don't and we have no desire to have kooks looking us up online and in real life.  Go on a web site for sewing and knitting enthusiasts and you will see handles being used in their forums.

The concept of a "handle" has been around since the CB radio days in the 1960s and for all I know it goes back even further than that to shortwave radio operators.

Quote from: sarkeizen on February 20, 2015, 04:14:02 PM
raising/lowering tone of the conversation is better classified as idiom.  There's a simple linguistic test for that.  Surprised that a writer doesn't know it. :)You did call something "social media 101".  That seems to imply some expertise doesn't it? Isn't that consulting?  Seems like it. You posted it here.  That's publishing in your book. So the right answer is "yep". :)You're cute when you're defensive. Also your statement seems to imply that a massive industry is somehow a counter to the idea that it might be entirely peopled with know-nothings.  Is that what you're saying.  Sure seems like it. :)

Anyway if you, the writer were paying attention at some point.  You would see I talk about two things in reference to know-nothings that the idea of social media consulting carries with it (or connotes) that (in my second use) and prior to that I referred to the idea as a common trope. Neither of these things assert the position that you made up.  Seriously for someone who seems to be preaching about words mattering you really don't pay much attention to other peoples.That may be your problem right there. :)I think the key phrase there is "for all I know". They are, however writing is not the same thing as conversation.  If you get around to reading what I write it's pretty clear I'm responding to what you say with considerable detail and attention.  Something there is no bot for - at least right now....and I'm sure you're much more formidable when you're taking things seriously...or one would hope. :)This is a good example of rhetoric instead of reason.  Why would someone care if an argument comes from a coward?  Ideas stand or fall on their own.

You're using pythoneque logic.

Quote from: MileHigh on February 20, 2015, 05:12:45 PM
So after all of the text cranked out beforehand about being offended by the use of the term "disingenuous" now you call nearly everybody on this forum a coward and you show no respect for their desire for personal privacy and safety.  The reason you are public is because you use the medium of the Internet to make your living.  The vast majority of us don't and we have no desire to have kooks looking us up online and in real life.  Go on a web site for sewing and knitting enthusiasts and you will see handles being used in their forums.

The concept of a "handle" has been around since the CB radio days in the 1960s and for all I know it goes back even further than that to shortwave radio operators.

Do you not read the post fully before you hit the quote button?
EDIT: btw I was not offended by any of your posts. To the contrary I found them amusing

Quote from: Jimboot on February 20, 2015, 11:03:22 PM
You're using pythoneque logic.

No, but what I produce does require reading.  Let me know when you think about doing that. :)

It's actually pretty simple. Either you provided advice on what is or is not good social media practice or your didn't.  That is easily within a reasonable reading of "consultant".

Quote from: sarkeizen on February 20, 2015, 11:24:31 PM
No, but what I produce does require reading.  Let me know when you think about doing that. :)

It's actually pretty simple. Either you provided advice on what is or is not good social media practice or your didn't.  That is easily within a reasonable reading of "consultant".

Sorry I don't have time to teach you. you can do better than that though.

Quote from: Jimboot on February 20, 2015, 11:51:52 PM
Sorry I don't have time to teach you. you can do better than that though.

The only thing that's required is for you to read.  Let me know when you learn. :)

sarkein and MileHigh; You should change your handles to Botman and Botbin.

Thank you for all the education. Now I know exactly what Elon Musk and Stephen Hawking are so worried about.  :o


CANGAS 139


PS CANGAS is my handle.  I'm a coward. Really!! I have to force myself to touch the ice, and, go the last mile. Give it my alll. Put it on teh line. But I am too fraidy to ever go one bridge too far.

Know'm say'n, Vern?

Quote from: CANGAS on February 21, 2015, 04:58:36 AM
sarkein and MileHigh; You should change your handles to Botman and Botbin.

So you said that there's a "high likelihood" that I'm a bot right?  So where's your "bot identification" algorithm.  If you won't publish it here then I'd suggest publishing in one of:

Foundations and Trends in Machine Learning
IEEE Transactions on Pattern Analysis and Machine Intelligence
ACM Transactions on Intelligent Systems and Technology
Journal of Machine Learning Research
Artificial Intelligence
IEEE Computational Intelligence Magazine

I'll make a similar offer to you that I made to profitis.  Get your algorithm published in any of those six journals and I'll give you $5000.  All you need to do is in this case post the title of your submission here and the first paragraph before you submit and then post a  scan of the acceptance letter (with personal information redacted) showing the date of submission, publication date and article title and if an article with that name is published on that date having the same first paragraph.  I'll give you $5K.

I was all happy to see that you had posted in this thread because I thought it would be another long terribly ignorant post about AI.  Hopefully this post will at least get that ball rolling again. :)

Quote from: Jimboot on February 20, 2015, 11:04:20 PM

Do you not read the post fully before you hit the quote button?
EDIT: btw I was not offended by any of your posts. To the contrary I found them amusing

Yes I read your post.  As far as your second statement goes you are being disingenuous again and trying to claim that you "found them amusing" is just you feigning aloofness and making a disparaging comment about me.  You even made a "bot" comment which is ridiculous.  Look at the title of this thread and try to live up to it.  This "chess game" you are playing is total BS.

Cangas:

I'm a mechanical man
I was built in a factory
My serial number is 084567123

I'm designed in the USA
And manufactured in Japan
Does anybody here know a robot girl that wants to meet a mechanical man?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8Z7xQ6S0yw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8Z7xQ6S0yw)

Quote from: MileHigh on February 21, 2015, 01:12:08 PM
Yes I read your post.  As far as your second statement goes you are being disingenuous again and trying to claim that you "found them amusing"

Sooooooo first JimBoot says that "playing dumb" is namecalling and disrespectful and not how you should treat others but somehow inoffensive disrespectful namecalling that is also not how you should treat others?

So we are to treat others the way we would like to be treated except sometimes not using something inoffensive?! LOL.

I think in all his twisting and turning JimBoot has come full-circle and his head is finally all the way up his ass. :)

Quote from: sarkeizen on February 21, 2015, 01:16:11 PM
Sooooooo first JimBoot says that "playing dumb" is namecalling and disrespectful and not how you should treat others but somehow inoffensive disrespectful namecalling that is also not how you should treat others?

So we are to treat others the way we would like to be treated except sometimes not using something inoffensive?! LOL.

I think in all his twisting and turning JimBoot has come full-circle and his head is finally all the way up his ass. :)

Ahh yes always easy to hurl insults when no one knows who you are. I thought you could better structure your arguments but obviously not.  Lost for words now obviously so resorts to lashing out. Do you need a timeout?
Even though its totally irrelevant here's your logic.


Someone learns something, tells someone else about it, they are a consultant.
Witches and ducks both float. So does wood. Witches are made of wood.


Don't get me wrong - I have many friends who are highy skilled professionals in social media / personal branding. You're haste to label an entire industry as being full of know nothings, really says more about you than the industry who actually dont care what you think. A very ignorant position you have taken.

Quote from: Jimboot on February 21, 2015, 06:11:23 PM
Ahh yes always easy to hurl insults when no one knows who you are. I thought you could better structure your arguments but obviously not.  Lost for words now obviously so resorts to lashing out. Do you need a timeout?
Even though its totally irrelevant here's your logic.


Someone learns something, tells someone else about it, they are a consultant.
Witches and ducks both float. So does wood. Witches are made of wood.


Don't get me wrong - I have many friends who are highy skilled professionals in social media / personal branding. You're haste to label an entire industry as being full of know nothings, really says more about you than the industry who actually dont care what you think. A very ignorant position you have taken.

Jim:

No, a consultant is a fellow that borrows your watch and then charges you to tell you what time it is...ha ha.

Bill

Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 21, 2015, 06:16:43 PM
Jim:

No, a consultant is a fellow that borrows your watch and then charges you to tell you what time it is...ha ha.

Bill

LOL!

Quote from: MileHigh on February 21, 2015, 01:12:08 PM
Yes I read your post.  As far as your second statement goes you are being disingenuous again and trying to claim that you "found them amusing" is just you feigning aloofness and making a disparaging comment about me.  You even made a "bot" comment which is ridiculous.  Look at the title of this thread and try to live up to it.  This "chess game" you are playing is total BS.

Seriously bloke you crack me up. I always giiggle when I'm reading your posts. You don't get it but that's ok. It's like you're shouting and screaming at people to love you and are surprised when they don't. I was just trying to explain that to you.


I care too much, that's my problem.


btw My coward reference is directed at those that remain anonymous so they can hurl abuse without consequence. The piece you didn't read was "in conversations like this" I have no issue with anonymity. I do have an issue with people hiding behind it so they can throw stones and hide. WHich is pretty much how I would define trolls. [/size]

[/size]
I can recommend some excellent resources for mature coping skills if you need it. [/size]

Quote from: Jimboot on February 21, 2015, 06:11:23 PMAhh yes always easy to hurl insults when no one knows who you are.

Not really it pains me greatly to have to describe you in these terms.

QuoteLost for words now obviously so resorts to lashing out. Do you need a timeout?

No but Grammar and Syntax called and they think you might need to be put in the "special" class.
Anyway the reason I stopped talking about some things is that you simply stopped reading them.  You had nothing to say, so I found other things to talk about.

Quote
Someone learns something, tells someone else about it, they are a consultant. Witches and ducks both float. So does wood. Witches are made of wood.

Advising someone on something is within a reasonable reading of "consultant".  "Witch" is not within a reasonable reading of "duck" nor "wood".  QED.  I have some great resources for learning elementary logic and math - you seem like you could use it. :)

QuoteYou're haste to label an entire industry as being full of know nothings

Which I didn't do.  You would know this if you read my posts. :)

Quotethe industry who actually dont care what you think.

But you really seem to care that I know that they don't care. :)

Quote from: sarkeizen on February 21, 2015, 08:40:02 PM
Not really it pains me greatly to have to describe you in these terms.No but Grammar and Syntax called and they think you might need to be put in the "special" class.
Anyway the reason I stopped talking about some things is that you simply stopped reading them.  You had nothing to say, so I found other things to talk about.Advising someone on something is within a reasonable reading of "consultant".  "Witch" is not within a reasonable reading of "duck" nor "wood".  QED.  I have some great resources for learning elementary logic and math - you seem like you could use it. :)Which I didn't do.  You would know this if you read my posts. :)But you really seem to care that I know that they don't care. :)

Ok you seem like a smart bloke. Your digital footprint is a little messy though. At least I know who you are now. That's 5 mins I wont get back.

Quote from: MileHighCangas:

I'm a mechanical man
I was built in a factory
My serial number is 084567123

I'm designed in the USA
And manufactured in Japan
Does anybody here know a robot girl that wants to meet a mechanical man?

QuoteI'm a mechanical man

I have you figured for a Heuristic ALgorithm.

QuoteMy serial number is 084567123

My sources say your production number is 3.

QuoteI'm designed in the USA

That's what I hear.

QuoteAnd manufactured in Japan

More delusions of grandeur?

They tell me, Urbana, Illinois.

QuoteDoes anybody here know a robot girl that wants to meet a mechanical man?

You have already been outed, Jack! Mechanical man?! Heuristic ALgorithm!!! Only one I heard of is your twin sister SAL. AIs are not concerned about incest?


CANGAS 139

Quote from: Jimboot on February 22, 2015, 12:47:26 AM
Ok you seem like a smart bloke.

Any day you want to actually learn logic.  I'll be here. :)

Quote
At least I know who you are now. That's 5 mins I wont get back.

Please elucidate. :)

I'm not buying anything you say Jim.  I looked at your YouTube channel and you average about 300-400 views per clip, even for clips that are five years old.  I find that somewhat strange for someone who is an Internet marketing guru.  Perhaps your footprint is bigger in other areas.

Cangas:

Built in 1927 and she still has a firm body!  She was built in Germany.  I was built in Japan.

Axis of Oil!

My eyes dilate, my lips go green
My hands are greasy
She's a mean, mean machine
She'll take you places that you've never, never seen!

Quote from: MileHigh on February 22, 2015, 12:22:36 PM
I'm not buying anything you say Jim.  I looked at your YouTube channel and you average about 300-400 views per clip, even for clips that are five years old.  I find that somewhat strange for someone who is an Internet marketing guru.  Perhaps your footprint is bigger in other areas.

That's ok mate I'm not selling you anything.

Quote from: MilesHigher
...
I was built in Japan.
...

Very interesting Miles!  My Wife and Daughter were
both built in Japan as well.

A fascinating place and culture.

I think energy and power is the main topic of argument in the world. The power full business man are still claiming down the free energy...



am I right? ;D