Here I would like to discuss Gov't laws suppressing OUR researchers around the globe, What do we know about this and how legal are these laws ??
also for discussion here are some other Odd laws which I actually have a hard time believing exist. One such example is posted below
from member Turion at Energetic forum
Turion
QUOTE
Keep away from the Aliens!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This really doesn't belong on an energy forum, but it was so interesting I just had to post it SOMEWHERE. Why do we need laws on the books in this country prohibiting us from contact with aliens and allowing the government to inprison us without due process for contact with aliens if aliens do not exist. Just a thought...
On 5 October 1982, Dr. Brian T. Clifford of the Pentagon announced at a press conference (The Star, New York, 5 October 1982) that contact between U.S. citizens and extra-terrestrials or their vehicles is strictly illegal. According to a law already on the books (Title 14, Section 1211 of the Code of Federal Regulations, adopted on 16 July 1969, before the Apollo moon shots), anyone guilty of such contact automatically becomes a wanted criminal to be jailed for one year and fined U.S. $5,000. The NASA administrator is empowered to determine, with or without a hearing, that a person or object has been "extra-teirestrially exposed" and impose an indeterminate quarantine under armed guard, which could not be broken even by court order. There is no limit placed on the number of individuals who could thus be arbitrarily quarantined. The definition of "extra-terrestrial exposure" is left entirely up to the NASA administrator, who is thus endowed with total dictatorial powers to be exercised at his slightest caprice, which is completely contrary to the Constitution.
END QUOTE
from discussion here
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/20206-keep-away-aliens.html
To Be clear I am very interested in what we can find out about Gov't suppression of technologies that would end this Horrible Global warming ::) as well as these oil wars and endless battles .
please contribute whatever you can
respectfully
Chet K
Quote from: ramset on July 25, 2015, 07:10:09 PM
Here I would like to discuss Gov't laws suppressing OUR researchers around the globe, What do we know about this and how legal are these laws ??
also for discussion here are some other Odd laws which I actually have a hard time believing exist. One such example is posted below
from member Turion at Energetic forum
Turion
QUOTE
Keep away from the Aliens!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This really doesn't belong on an energy forum, but it was so interesting I just had to post it SOMEWHERE. Why do we need laws on the books in this country prohibiting us from contact with aliens and allowing the government to inprison us without due process for contact with aliens if aliens do not exist. Just a thought...
On 5 October 1982, Dr. Brian T. Clifford of the Pentagon announced at a press conference (The Star, New York, 5 October 1982) that contact between U.S. citizens and extra-terrestrials or their vehicles is strictly illegal. According to a law already on the books (Title 14, Section 1211 of the Code of Federal Regulations, adopted on 16 July 1969, before the Apollo moon shots), anyone guilty of such contact automatically becomes a wanted criminal to be jailed for one year and fined U.S. $5,000. The NASA administrator is empowered to determine, with or without a hearing, that a person or object has been "extra-teirestrially exposed" and impose an indeterminate quarantine under armed guard, which could not be broken even by court order. There is no limit placed on the number of individuals who could thus be arbitrarily quarantined. The definition of "extra-terrestrial exposure" is left entirely up to the NASA administrator, who is thus endowed with total dictatorial powers to be exercised at his slightest caprice, which is completely contrary to the Constitution.
END QUOTE
from discussion here
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/20206-keep-away-aliens.html
To Be clear I am very interested in what we can find out about Gov't suppression of technologies that would end this Horrible Global warming ::) as well as these oil wars and endless battles .
please contribute whatever you can
respectfully
Chet K
LOL, good luck finding actual documentation to support that conspiracy theory.
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-1999-title14-vol5/pdf/CFR-1999-title14-vol5-part1211.pdf
Quote from: MarkE on July 25, 2015, 07:22:20 PM
LOL, good luck finding actual documentation to support that conspiracy theory.
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-1999-title14-vol5/pdf/CFR-1999-title14-vol5-part1211.pdf (http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-1999-title14-vol5/pdf/CFR-1999-title14-vol5-part1211.pdf)
The Code of Federal Regulations of the United States of America (Digitized by Google)Title 14, Section 1211 (http://books.google.com/books?id=3ZY5AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA632&lpg=PA632&dq=1211.100+Title+14&source=bl&ots=ynk_SqySQk&sig=nFj7RThYZVRS4EvsNFbuebvw6Kg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CEkQ6AEwB2oVChMIv-KQqr_3xgIV01uICh190ggR#v=onepage&q=1211.100%20Title%2014&f=false)
Gravock
Gravock your reference is out of date, from 1970. The reference that MarkE cited is the _current law in effect now_ direct from the Government Printing Office's website. The entire Section 1211 was revoked by NASA in 1977 and removed entirely from the CFR in 1991.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extra-Terrestrial_Exposure_Law
http://www.snopes.com/legal/et.asp
And as is explained, the law never did forbid anyone having contact with ET, especially if they came in their own spacecraft. You simply needed to submit to a quarantine after having such contact.
Quote from: gravityblock on July 25, 2015, 08:20:14 PM
The Code of Federal Regulations of the United States of America (Digitized by Google)
Title 14, Section 1211 (http://books.google.com/books?id=3ZY5AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA632&lpg=PA632&dq=1211.100+Title+14&source=bl&ots=ynk_SqySQk&sig=nFj7RThYZVRS4EvsNFbuebvw6Kg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CEkQ6AEwB2oVChMIv-KQqr_3xgIV01uICh190ggR#v=onepage&q=1211.100%20Title%2014&f=false)
Gravock
So you think that now revoked regulation when it was in effect supports the conspiracy theory that Ramset alleges? Do you think that it made contact with extraterrestrials illegal as Ramset alleges?
Quote from: MarkE on July 25, 2015, 09:30:48 PM
So you think that now revoked regulation when it was in effect supports the conspiracy theory that Ramset alleges? Do you think that it made contact with extraterrestrials illegal as Ramset alleges?
Yes, I think the now reserved regulation when it was in effect supported the statements made by Dr. Brian T. Clifford at a press conference in 1982 as posted by Ramset. I'm also in agreement with Dr. Clifford that it made contact with extraterrestrials illegal. I also agree that this law violated the Constitution.
A snippet of section 1211:
3.) Determine that a particular person property animal or other form of life or matter whatever is extra-terrestrially exposed and quarantine such person property animal or other form of life or matter whatever. The quarantine may be based only on a determination with or without the benefit of a hearing that there is probable cause to believe that such person property animal or other form of life or matter whatever is extra-terrestrially exposed.
Gravock
Quote from: gravityblock on July 25, 2015, 11:18:05 PM
Yes, I think the now reserved regulation when it was in effect supported the statements made by Dr. Brian T. Clifford at a press conference in 1982 as posted by Ramset.
How so given that the regulation never made contact with aliens illegal, and that the statute had not been in effect for over five years when Clifford allegedly made his comments?
QuoteI'm also in agreement with Dr. Clifford that it made contact with extraterrestrials illegal. I also agree that this law violated the Constitution.
Then kindly point to the language you assert makes contact with extraterretrials illegal.
Quote
A snippet of section 1211:
3.) Determine that a particular person property animal or other form of life or matter whatever is extra-terrestrially exposed and quarantine such person property animal or other form of life or matter whatever. The quarantine may be based only on a determination with or without the benefit of a hearing that there is probable cause to believe that such person property animal or other form of life or matter whatever is extra-terrestrially exposed.
Gravock
Yes, so what? Where does it state that such contact is prohibited in any way?
Quote from: MarkE on July 25, 2015, 11:41:35 PM
How so given that the regulation never made contact with aliens illegal, and that the statute had not been in effect for over five years when Clifford allegedly made his comments?Then kindly point to the language you assert makes contact with extraterretrials illegal.Yes, so what? Where does it state that such contact is prohibited in any way?
NASA ended the lunar quarantine 5 years prior, which was always at NASA's discretion according to 1211. However, section 1211 remained written into law until 1991. NASA, the Department of Health, Welfare, or the Department of Agriculture could quarantine anyone or anything at their discretion according to section 1211, and without a hearing to show probable cause of being extra-terrestrially exposed at any time prior to 1991 (National Security). Other governmental agencies, besides NASA, had the authority to quarantine an extra-terrestrially exposed person or object under section 1211.
A violation of section 1211 could result in a fine up to $5000 and 1 year imprisonment, or both. At the earliest practical time, each person who is quarantined shall be given a reasonable opportunity to communicate by telephone with legal counsel or other persons of his choice.
Gravock
Will they imprison Stephen Hawking for setting up the 100 million $ reward for discovering alien life? Can we be sure he hasn't been contacted already? I seem to recall that Tesla believed his parents were aliens or something. They didn't lock him up but the government sure found a way to essentially imprison him by having him die a poor man in a hotel where he couldn't prosper from his creativity and knowledge. But they made darn sure to swoop in and take all his notes the moment he died. Nice of them to look out for him like that. Like vultures.
What concerns me even more is how the US is able to classify patents as well, "classified" if they want to. So if you really have a great energy patent idea, chances are that it'll never see the light of day if you don't want to go to jail.
Edward Leedskalnin mentions in his book for us not to try to build a generator with his idea because he has already filed for a patent. I have never been able to find that patent.
Quote from: gravityblock on July 26, 2015, 12:35:43 AM
NASA ended the lunar quarantine 5 years prior, which was always at NASA's discretion according to 1211. However, section 1211 remained written into law until 1991. NASA, the Department of Health, Welfare, or the Department of Agriculture could quarantine anyone or anything at their discretion according to section 1211, and without a hearing to show probable cause of being extra-terrestrially exposed at any time prior to 1991 (National Security). Other governmental agencies, besides NASA, had the authority to quarantine an extra-terrestrially exposed person or object under section 1211.
A violation of section 1211 could result in a fine up to $5000 and 1 year imprisonment, or both. At the earliest practical time, each person who is quarantined shall be given a reasonable opportunity to communicate by telephone with legal counsel or other persons of his choice.
Gravock
You have in multiple attempts completely failed to support Ramset's assertions. You have not shown where in the statute it made contact with aliens illegal. That's because it never did. The sections you have quoted do not show anywhere that when the statute was in force that contact with aliens was illegal. The statute is entirely enclosed by its intent to ensure that anyone who does contact matter from beyond earth does not inadvertently expose the earth to some horrific microbe or virus.
Quote from: MarkE on July 26, 2015, 02:21:00 AM
You have in multiple attempts completely failed to support Ramset's assertions. You have not shown where in the statute it made contact with aliens illegal. That's because it never did. The sections you have quoted do not show anywhere that when the statute was in force that contact with aliens was illegal. The statute is entirely enclosed by its intent to ensure that anyone who does contact matter from beyond earth does not inadvertently expose the earth to some horrific microbe or virus.
Wrong! The statue goes beyond what is highlighted in bold above. The other governmental agencies can quarantine an extra-terrestrially exposed person, except for NASA personnel or NASA property involved in any space mission (paragraph a and c below). In addition to this, the statute says in paragraph b:
b) Extraterrestrially exposed means the state or condition of any person property animal or other form of life or matter whatever who or which has: 1) Touched directly
or come within the atmospheric envelope of any celestial body;
or 2) Touched directly
or been in close proximity to
or been exposed to any person, property animal
other form of life (my comment: an alien visitor qualifies as "other form of life" who has touched directly and who has come within the atmospheric envelope of another celestial body...end of comment) or matter who
or which has been
extraterrestrially exposed virtue of subparagraph (1) of this paragraph.
a) If either the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare, or the Department of Agriculture
exercises its authority to quarantine an extraterrestrially exposed person, property, animal, or other form of life or matter whatever, NASA will,
except as provided in paragraph c of this section, not exercise the authority to quarantine that same person property animal or other form of life or matter whatever. In such cases NASA will offer to these departments the use of the Lunar Receiving Laboratory Quarantine Station and such other service equipment personnel and facilities as may be necessary to ensure an effective quarantine.
....
........
c) NASA shall quarantine NASA astronauts and other NASA personnel as determined necessary and all NASA property involved in any space mission.
Gravock
Quote from: gravityblock on July 26, 2015, 02:56:42 AM
Wrong! The statue goes beyond what is highlighted in bold above. The other governmental agencies can quarantine an extra-terrestrially exposed person, except for NASA personnel or NASA property involved in any space mission (paragraph a and c below). In addition to this, the statute says in paragraph b:
b) Extraterrestrially exposed means the state or condition of any person property animal or other form of life or matter whatever who or which has: 1) Touched directly or come within the atmospheric envelope of any celestial body; or 2) Touched directly or been in close proximity to or been exposed to any person, property animal other form of life (my comment: an alien visitor qualifies as "other form of life" who has touched directly and who has come within the atmospheric envelope of another celestial body...end of comment) or matter who or which has been extraterrestrially exposed virtue of subparagraph (1) of this paragraph.
a) If either the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare, or the Department of Agriculture exercises its authority to quarantine an extraterrestrially exposed person, property, animal, or other form of life or matter whatever, NASA will, except as provided in paragraph c of this section, not exercise the authority to quarantine that same person property animal or other form of life or matter whatever. In such cases NASA will offer to these departments the use of the Lunar Receiving Laboratory Quarantine Station and such other service equipment personnel and facilities as may be necessary to ensure an effective quarantine.
....
........
c) NASA shall quarantine NASA astronauts and other NASA personnel as determined necessary and all NASA property involved in any space mission.
Gravock
Is English not your first language? When something is prohibited by law, a statute typically reads along the lines: "It shall be unlawful ... ". Nowhere in that statute does it state that contact with an extraterrestrial is unlawful.
Quote from: MarkE on July 26, 2015, 03:24:26 AM
Is English not your first language? When something is prohibited by law, a statute typically reads along the lines: "It shall be unlawful ... ". Nowhere in that statute does it state that contact with an extraterrestrial is unlawful.
If a $5,000 fine and a 1 year imprisonment for violation of this statute doesn't mean it's unlawful to break it, then you're beyond reasoning with.
Gravock
Quote from: gravityblock on July 26, 2015, 03:42:08 AM
If a $5,000 fine and a 1 year imprisonment for violation of this statute doesn't mean it's unlawful to break it, then you're beyond reasoning with.
Gravock
LOL, I guess you can't read, or alternately just want to troll. Bank robbery has even bigger prison sentences. Like this statute the laws against bank robbery do not prohibit alien encounters.
Quote from: MarkE on July 26, 2015, 03:24:26 AM
Is English not your first language? When something is prohibited by law, a statute typically reads along the lines: "It shall be unlawful ... ". Nowhere in that statute does it state that contact with an extraterrestrial is unlawful.
The legal definition of "shall" (http://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/plain_language/articles/mandatory/) means "may" when it appears in statutes according to the supreme court. In other words, your statement in regards to how a statue typically reads, really says: "It may be unlawful...". Something that may be unlawful doesn't state or mean that it is prohibited by law as you wrongly assert. However, you'll be leaving yourself at risk and at the mercy of a judge if the statue carries fines and imprisonment.
Gravock
Quote from: MarkE on July 26, 2015, 03:58:09 AM
LOL, I guess you can't read, or alternately just want to troll. Bank robbery has even bigger prison sentences. Like this statute the laws against bank robbery do not prohibit alien encounters.
It shall be unlawful..... doesn't make it prohibited by law as you wrongly assert.
Gravock
This is my personal opinion regarding disclosure of aliens – the power rules the world just like money printing does. So the country with very high means of getting their hands of such technology = the ruler of the world and the technology will be "reverse engineered" before telling anyone about it. Hence, if there is a sighting of anything alien like, "they" will be there first to isolate the area like if one fat kid was to spit on the pizza to eat it all. Yes folks, the greedy side of fat kids is to spit on a box of pizza so the others find it gross (who is going to eat pizza with spit on it?). The kid that spet on the pie knows he's eating he's own spit while having the whole pizza to himself.
To put it simple, you are only being sold the "technology" good bidden by the laws. You do not have permission in a court of law to reproduce any of said technology and pretty soon it will be illegal to even change your own oil in your car.
Now based on that, how will any government allow the media to grab a piece of a UFO material in their hands? Will never happen! So I believe the only reason any of that is illegal is for 1) reverse engineering (who has the biggest weapons intimidates) 2) a way to make the common people buy goods for greater profit. HEELLL!!! for all I know the government are nothing but aliens trying to keep their secret save by hiding the evidence! But who knows right? lol
Quote from: joel321 on July 26, 2015, 04:25:48 AM
HEELLL!!! for all I know the government are nothing but aliens trying to keep their secret safe by hiding the evidence! But who knows right? lol
MarkE knows. He knows a reprobate mystery.
Gravock
Quote from: gravityblock on July 26, 2015, 04:10:11 AM
The legal definition of "shall" (http://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/plain_language/articles/mandatory/) means "may" when it appears in statutes according to the supreme court. In other words, your statement in regards to how a statue typically reads, really says: "It may be unlawful...". Something that may be unlawful doesn't state or mean that it is prohibited by law as you wrongly assert. However, you'll be leaving yourself at risk and at the mercy of a judge if the statue carries fines and imprisonment.
Gravock
Attempt to spin all you want. You have not and cannot support Ramset's claims.
I don't make fun of MarkE because the evidence shows he's intelligent. But I don't believe he knows that much regarding alien "theory".
I mean ask him to give you an equation of why the earth has life out of the other "earth like" billions of planets? :P...just saying...keep it civil guys :P
Oh yeah speaking about earth like planets http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/23/us/feat-nasa-kepler-planet-discovery/ I believe that's like 500th found so far with our telescopes and stuff! lol
Quote from: MarkE on July 26, 2015, 04:42:47 AM
Attempt to spin all you want. You have not and cannot support Ramset's claims.
It is you who is attempting to spin all you want. Don't project what you're doing off onto me, which is known as a psychological projection. You should ask for a reboot or maybe even an upgrade.
Gravock
Quote from: joel321 on July 26, 2015, 04:45:33 AM
I don't make fun of MarkE because the evidence shows he's intelligent. But I don't believe he knows that much regarding alien "theory".
...just saying...keep it civil guys :P
Joel,
You do realize MarkE isn't a real person. The evidence shows he's a very sophisticated AI program. I'm serious!
Gravock
If MarkE is an AI then I believe he has evolved from WALL-E. Just shooting the shit MarkE no hard feelings lol.
Quote from: MarkE on July 26, 2015, 04:42:47 AM
Attempt to spin all you want. You have not and cannot support Ramset's claims.
What claims by ramset are you referring to?.
This is what Ramset posted
Quote: also for discussion here are some other Odd laws which I actually have a hard time believing exist. One such example is posted below
from member Turion at Energetic forum.
I do not see Ramset making any claims. I see Ramset putting forth a claim by another--which Ramset says he has a hard time believing exist.
Quote from: tinman on July 26, 2015, 05:10:32 AM
What claims by ramset are you referring to?.
This is what Ramset posted
Quote: also for discussion here are some other Odd laws which I actually have a hard time believing exist. One such example is posted below
from member Turion at Energetic forum.
I do not see Ramset making any claims. I see Ramset putting forth a claim by another--which Ramset says he has a hard time believing exist.
The complete quote of ramset's words:
QuoteHere I would like to discuss Gov't laws suppressing OUR researchers around the globe, What do we know about this and how legal are these laws ??
also for discussion here are some other Odd laws which I actually have a hard time believing exist. One such example is posted below
from member Turion at Energetic forum
He posted verbatim a quote he found and attached it as an example for his theme of: "Gov't laws suppressing OUR researchers around the globe." despite the fact that he doubted its existence. The law did exist at one time. In context: it is easy to understand why the regulation was created and later rescinded. The regulation never suppressed research or as the author he quoted claimed: alien contact. The law when it was in force did not suppress anything, including OU research.
So ramset claims that there are laws suppressing OU research, but failed to find any examples.
Quote from: joel321 on July 26, 2015, 05:05:07 AM
If MarkE is an AI then I believe he has evolved from WALL-E. Just shooting the shit MarkE no hard feelings lol.
This sort of situation has happened before.
Quote from: MarkE on July 26, 2015, 05:28:41 AM
The complete quote of ramset's words:
He posted verbatim a quote he found and attached it as an example for his theme of: "Gov't laws suppressing OUR researchers around the globe." despite the fact that he doubted its existence. The law did exist at one time. In context: it is easy to understand why the regulation was created and later rescinded. The regulation never suppressed research or as the author he quoted claimed: alien contact. The law when it was in force did not suppress anything, including OU research.
So ramset claims that there are laws suppressing OU research, but failed to find any examples.
No MarkE. Ramset wanted to discuss Odd laws in addition to also discussing Gov't laws suppressing research. I highlighted the key words in bold below.
The OP by Ramset stated:
"Here I would like to discuss Gov't laws suppressing OUR researchers around the globe, What do we know about this and how legal are these laws ??
also for discussion here are some other Odd laws which I actually have a hard time believing exist. One such example is posted below
from member Turion at Energetic forum"
Gravock
Quote from: MarkE on July 26, 2015, 05:28:41 AM
The complete quote of ramset's words:
He posted verbatim a quote he found and attached it as an example for his theme of: "Gov't laws suppressing OUR researchers around the globe." despite the fact that he doubted its existence. The law did exist at one time. In context: it is easy to understand why the regulation was created and later rescinded. The regulation never suppressed research or as the author he quoted claimed: alien contact. The law when it was in force did not suppress anything, including OU research.
So ramset claims that there are laws suppressing OU research, but failed to find any examples.
I am such an example.
I have a device that seems to put out more power than is being consumed-classic free energy device :D
laws suppressing such device can be hidden behind many forms.
National security-converts to the collapse of the petrochemical dollar. What would happen if all of a sudden no one needed to pay for fossil fuel's?.
Oh ,then there is this one as i found out.
A law against a non licensed electrician building and presenting/ promoting a high voltage inverter to the public<--Lol,aint that a hoot.
Now-do you think that any government would have a law(viewable by the public) stating that you cannot research or develop overunity/free energy machines? No,and there are two reasons for this.
1-People would then know that the powers that be really do not have the publics best interest at heart.
2-They dont need such law's,as there are already laws that can be used to prevent this from happening-->that being the release of a free energy device.
Here is a fact.
The powers that be(weather that is a government body,or the powerful oil boys club)do not want you to become undependable on fossil fuels-that is a fact,and they will do/try anything to make this happen.
In our country,we went big on solar,and it became a runaway situation. Then these clowns in power decided(after much persuasion from the electric companies)to try and charge those will solar panels on there roof a sun tax-LMAO-a sun tax. The public soon put a stop to this bullsh-t. Who know's where it would have led if they were aloud to get away with such crap. We'd soon be paying 50 cents an hour to get a suntan. Then they would hit us all with a carbon tax just for breathing.
So anyway,after they lost that battle,guess what they did-->one guess ;)
The asswipes went and put a stop to solar grid tie systems in areas where solar installations were the highest. So now in those areas,you can put solar panels on your roof,but you cant do a darn thing with them.
Make no mistake-our loving governments have nothing but there own interest at heart,and there are indeed laws that prevent free energy devices/overunity devices ever making it to market. You just need to know the laws that can be used that are here today.
High voltage inverter my ass.
Quote from: tinman on July 26, 2015, 07:06:00 AM
I am such an example.
I have a device that seems to put out more power than is being consumed-classic free energy device :D
laws suppressing such device can be hidden behind many forms.
National security-converts to the collapse of the petrochemical dollar. What would happen if all of a sudden no one needed to pay for fossil fuel's?.
Oh ,then there is this one as i found out.
A law against a non licensed electrician building and presenting/ promoting a high voltage inverter to the public<--Lol,aint that a hoot.
Now-do you think that any government would have a law(viewable by the public) stating that you cannot research or develop overunity/free energy machines? No,and there are two reasons for this.
1-People would then know that the powers that be really do not have the publics best interest at heart.
2-They dont need such law's,as there are already laws that can be used to prevent this from happening-->that being the release of a free energy device.
Here is a fact.
The powers that be(weather that is a government body,or the powerful oil boys club)do not want you to become undependable on fossil fuels-that is a fact,and they will do/try anything to make this happen.
In our country,we went big on solar,and it became a runaway situation. Then these clowns in power decided(after much persuasion from the electric companies)to try and charge those will solar panels on there roof a sun tax-LMAO-a sun tax. The public soon put a stop to this bullsh-t. Who know's where it would have led if they were aloud to get away with such crap. We'd soon be paying 50 cents an hour to get a suntan. Then they would hit us all with a carbon tax just for breathing.
So anyway,after they lost that battle,guess what they did-->one guess ;)
The asswipes went and put a stop to solar grid tie systems in areas where solar installations were the highest. So now in those areas,you can put solar panels on your roof,but you cant do a darn thing with them.
Make no mistake-our loving governments have nothing but there own interest at heart,and there are indeed laws that prevent free energy devices/overunity devices ever making it to market. You just need to know the laws that can be used that are here today.
High voltage inverter my ass.
Geezarse Brad, is that a WA law or federal? My brother in law is a licensed electrician may have to give him a call :) How many researchers here would fit that definition in their own jurisdictions. MarkE TK? Seems you blokes would not have a day job as a sparky. btw do you have a link to that legislation? Been looking but can't find anything.
Quote from: Jimboot on July 26, 2015, 07:39:57 AM
Geezarse Brad, is that a WA law or federal? My brother in law is a licensed electrician may have to give him a call :) How many researchers here would fit that definition in their own jurisdictions. MarkE TK? Seems you blokes would not have a day job as a sparky. btw do you have a link to that legislation? Been looking but can't find anything.
You will be surprised at what we are doing that we shouldnt be doing Jim.We are suppose to have a licence if we go above 50 VAC,or 120 VDC-regardless of current. As silly as it sounds,a lot of the higher voltage JT's would exceed 50VAC-and tesla coils-forget it-your done.
So like i said,when the time come's,there are laws they can sting you with.
This is from the WA.gov.au website.
Quote: Electrical work is defined in the Electricity (Licensing) Regulations 1991 and means work on electrical machines or instruments, on an electrical installation or on electrical appliances or equipment to which electricity is supplied or intended to be supplied, at a nominal pressure exceeding 50 volts alternating current or 120 volts direct current, whether or not the thing on which the work is being performed is part of, or is connected to or to be connected to, any distribution works or private generating plant and, where work is performed on any appliance, whether or not electricity is supplied or may be supplied thereto through an electric plug socket or socket outlet.
Section 3.3 of the WAES
Where sources of electricity generation are installed in a consumer's premises, the generator
electrical installation shall comply with relevant technical standards including:
• AS/NZS: 3010:2005 Electrical installations – generating sets;
• AS 4509.1:2009 Stand-alone power systems – safety and installation;
• AS 4777:2005 Grid connection of energy systems via inverters;
• AS/NZS 5033:2005 Installation of photo-voltaic (PV) arrays; and
• the Wiring Rules.
Further requirements of network operators may be found in their connection requirements.
In particular, where an installation has multiple alternative sources of supply (incorporating either
automatic and or manual switching), all associated circuits and equipment including isolating
switches shall have signage and labelling as required by the relevant standards. Further detailed
labelling requirements are provided in section 3.5 (below).
Installation or modification of on-site power generation is 'notifiable work' as defined in the Electricity
Licensing Regulations 1991 and, in particular, notices of work shall be submitted to the network
operator as required by Regulations 51 and 52.
http://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/energysafety/licensing-electrical-workers-and-electrical-contractors
http://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/sites/default/files/atoms/files/waer_2014_0.pdf
To be honest the e t thing was just an excuse to have this discussion about suppression (a lead in)
A kindergartner could solve the tax issue in Australia , just keep the tax ,based on prior history in the home or mileage on
the car etc etc etc,.,......
Obviously there are other ancillary issues with a country and its economy.
Mark E
you are a very big proponent of big government , surely you will figure out how to make your model work in an FE
environment
Too
??????????
After all when magnets and wire have to get outlawed ..
These greedy singleminded powers that be will have a very big problem indeed
And their problem will become our problem by default...
How about some productive solutions to this issue?
Better late than never, we are after all there ATM
Www.fas.org/SGP/othergov/inventions/stats.HTML.
(cut and paste this link if its not working ,I'm typing on a midget
Pojunk and don't, know how to post a link yet)
Thx to tinsel for the link
Quote from: ramset on July 26, 2015, 09:47:36 AM
To be honest the e t thing was just an excuse to have this discussion about suppression (a lead in)
A kindergartner could solve the tax issue in Australia , just keep the tax ,based on prior history in the home or mileage on
the car etc etc etc,.,......
Obviously there are other ancillary issues with a country and its economy.
Mark E
you are a very big proponent of big government , surely you will figure out how to make your model work in an FE
environment
Too
??????????
After all when magnets and wire have to get outlawed ..
These greedy singleminded powers that be will have a very big problem indeed
And their problem will become our problem by default...
How about some productive solutions to this issue?
Better late than never, we are after all there ATM
Www.fas.org/SGP/othergov/inventions/stats.HTML.
(cut and paste this link if its not working ,I'm typing on a midget
Pojunk and don't, know how to post a link yet)
Thx to tinsel for the link
http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/invention/stats.html
A suppressed video of Ed using a block and tackle to build Coral Castle is a good example in how to create troubling times for FE research:
Leaked Coral Castle 1930's Film Footage! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2SmmSD0afg)
Here's the complete film footage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqNRweMt-sQ). <---------- @Joel, there's some real hotties in this short film!
Gravock
Quote from: gravityblock on July 26, 2015, 05:39:26 AM
No MarkE. Ramset wanted to discuss Odd laws in addition to also discussing Gov't laws suppressing research. I highlighted the key words in bold below.
The OP by Ramset stated:
"Here I would like to discuss Gov't laws suppressing OUR researchers around the globe, What do we know about this and how legal are these laws ??
also for discussion here are some other Odd laws which I actually have a hard time believing exist. One such example is posted below
from member Turion at Energetic forum"
Gravock
LOL, learn the meaning of "this" and "these".
Quote from: MarkE on July 26, 2015, 03:08:05 PM
LOL, learn the meaning of "this" and "these".
ROFLMAO, the meaning of "this" and "these" in no way links or ties other odd and unusual laws, to laws specifically referring to gov't suppression. I know, it's hard for your program to understand this and easy for your program to take it out of context.
Gravock
Mark E
This [below] is the point of These discussions, not shaking hands with ET and ending up in handcuffs ,please don't be distracted by that !!
Instead... gathering info on how the below stats are actually enforced ,and what the associated paper work looks like that people are forced to sign
under "or else"....conditions.
below cut and paste from Tinsels Link here http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/invention/stats.html
Invention Secrecy Activity
(as reported by the Patent & Trademark Office)
FY10 FY11 FY12 FY13 FY14
Total Secrecy Orders in Effect 5135 5241 5327 5445 5520
(at end of period)
New Secrecy Orders Imposed 86 143 98 139 97
Secrecy Orders Rescinded 32 37 18 21 22
Sponsoring Agencies for
New Secrecy Orders
Foreign Origin 18 33 14 12 5
ARMY 12 19 33 2 13
NAVY 35 41 29 68 43
AF 13 10 13 11 6
DOE 1 15 0 29 15
NSA 6 25 9 11 6
DTSA 1 0 1 6
NASA, DARPA 0 0 0 5 3
New DoD Secrecy Order Types
Type 1 (export control) 31 33 27 66 42
Type 2 (classified) 19 41 18 21 9
Type 2 (foreign PSA) 19 33 13 12 11
Type 3 16 21 40 6 18
New Non-DoD Secrecy Orders 1 15 0 34 17
"John Doe" Secrecy Orders
(imposed on private inventors) 26 11 11 21 11
Quote from: tinman on July 26, 2015, 07:06:00 AM
I am such an example.
I have a device that seems to put out more power than is being consumed-classic free energy device :D
laws suppressing such device can be hidden behind many forms.
National security-converts to the collapse of the petrochemical dollar. What would happen if all of a sudden no one needed to pay for fossil fuel's?.
That is not an example. It is a hypothetical speculation.
Quote
Oh ,then there is this one as i found out.
A law against a non licensed electrician building and presenting/ promoting a high voltage inverter to the public<--Lol,aint that a hoot.
Yes it must be. Why don't we wind back all the regulations that prohibit unqualified people from handling dangerous machinery and materials. Why not ship out: "My nitrogen tri-iodide playkit and neighborhood reconfigurator." to boys ages 6-80?
Quote
Now-do you think that any government would have a law(viewable by the public) stating that you cannot research or develop overunity/free energy machines? No,and there are two reasons for this.
Well then you have just contradicted Ramset's assertion that there are "these" such laws.
Quote
1-People would then know that the powers that be really do not have the publics best interest at heart.
2-They dont need such law's,as there are already laws that can be used to prevent this from happening-->that being the release of a free energy device.
Really, would you care to identify any of those alleged laws?
Quote
Here is a fact.
The powers that be(weather that is a government body,or the powerful oil boys club)do not want you to become undependable on fossil fuels-that is a fact,and they will do/try anything to make this happen.
The Koch brothers spend lots and lots of money on lobbying and PR to protect and extend their profits. So what?
Quote
In our country,we went big on solar,and it became a runaway situation. Then these clowns in power decided(after much persuasion from the electric companies)to try and charge those will solar panels on there roof a sun tax-LMAO-a sun tax. The public soon put a stop to this bullsh-t. Who know's where it would have led if they were aloud to get away with such crap. We'd soon be paying 50 cents an hour to get a suntan. Then they would hit us all with a carbon tax just for breathing.
So anyway,after they lost that battle,guess what they did-->one guess ;)
Please come back to the subject of alleged laws against producing free energy devices.
Quote
The asswipes went and put a stop to solar grid tie systems in areas where solar installations were the highest. So now in those areas,you can put solar panels on your roof,but you cant do a darn thing with them.
Sure you can. You can produce your own power.
Quote
Make no mistake-our loving governments have nothing but there own interest at heart,and there are indeed laws that prevent free energy devices/overunity devices ever making it to market. You just need to know the laws that can be used that are here today.
So do tell.
Quote
High voltage inverter my ass.
It might as well be, because you have not established a connection to alleged laws against free energy.
Quote from: tinman on July 26, 2015, 08:52:17 AM
You will be surprised at what we are doing that we shouldnt be doing Jim.We are suppose to have a licence if we go above 50 VAC,or 120 VDC-regardless of current. As silly as it sounds,a lot of the higher voltage JT's would exceed 50VAC-and tesla coils-forget it-your done.
So like i said,when the time come's,there are laws they can sting you with.
This is from the WA.gov.au website.
Quote: Electrical work is defined in the Electricity (Licensing) Regulations 1991 and means work on electrical machines or instruments, on an electrical installation or on electrical appliances or equipment to which electricity is supplied or intended to be supplied, at a nominal pressure exceeding 50 volts alternating current or 120 volts direct current, whether or not the thing on which the work is being performed is part of, or is connected to or to be connected to, any distribution works or private generating plant and, where work is performed on any appliance, whether or not electricity is supplied or may be supplied thereto through an electric plug socket or socket outlet.
Section 3.3 of the WAES
Where sources of electricity generation are installed in a consumer's premises, the generator
electrical installation shall comply with relevant technical standards including:
• AS/NZS: 3010:2005 Electrical installations – generating sets;
• AS 4509.1:2009 Stand-alone power systems – safety and installation;
• AS 4777:2005 Grid connection of energy systems via inverters;
• AS/NZS 5033:2005 Installation of photo-voltaic (PV) arrays; and
• the Wiring Rules.
Further requirements of network operators may be found in their connection requirements.
In particular, where an installation has multiple alternative sources of supply (incorporating either
automatic and or manual switching), all associated circuits and equipment including isolating
switches shall have signage and labelling as required by the relevant standards. Further detailed
labelling requirements are provided in section 3.5 (below).
Installation or modification of on-site power generation is 'notifiable work' as defined in the Electricity
Licensing Regulations 1991 and, in particular, notices of work shall be submitted to the network
operator as required by Regulations 51 and 52.
http://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/energysafety/licensing-electrical-workers-and-electrical-contractors
http://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/sites/default/files/atoms/files/waer_2014_0.pdf
Would you prefer that people get killed due to stupidity?
Quote from: ramset on July 26, 2015, 09:47:36 AM
To be honest the e t thing was just an excuse to have this discussion about suppression (a lead in)
A kindergartner could solve the tax issue in Australia , just keep the tax ,based on prior history in the home or mileage on
the car etc etc etc,.,......
Obviously there are other ancillary issues with a country and its economy.
Mark E
you are a very big proponent of big government , surely you will figure out how to make your model work in an FE
environment
Too
??????????
After all when magnets and wire have to get outlawed ..
These greedy singleminded powers that be will have a very big problem indeed
And their problem will become our problem by default...
How about some productive solutions to this issue?
You have not actually established that there is any issue.
Quote
Better late than never, we are after all there ATM
Www.fas.org/SGP/othergov/inventions/stats.HTML.
(cut and paste this link if its not working ,I'm typing on a midget
Pojunk and don't, know how to post a link yet)
Thx to tinsel for the link
Quote from: ramset on July 26, 2015, 03:18:46 PM
Mark E
This [below] is the point of These discussions, not shaking hands with ET and ending up in handcuffs ,please don't be distracted by that !!
You failed to establish that there was any "that" in the first place. So, far you have come up zero with any regulations that bar OU research. For what you have provided so far you might as well rail against poodle style hair cuts on invisible unicorns.
Quote
Instead... gathering info on how the below stats are actually enforced ,and what the associated paper work looks like that people are forced to sign
under "or else"....conditions.
below cut and paste from Tinsels Link here http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/invention/stats.html
Invention Secrecy Activity
(as reported by the Patent & Trademark Office)
FY10 FY11 FY12 FY13 FY14
Total Secrecy Orders in Effect 5135 5241 5327 5445 5520
(at end of period)
New Secrecy Orders Imposed 86 143 98 139 97
Secrecy Orders Rescinded 32 37 18 21 22
Sponsoring Agencies for
New Secrecy Orders
Foreign Origin 18 33 14 12 5
ARMY 12 19 33 2 13
NAVY 35 41 29 68 43
AF 13 10 13 11 6
DOE 1 15 0 29 15
NSA 6 25 9 11 6
DTSA 1 0 1 6
NASA, DARPA 0 0 0 5 3
New DoD Secrecy Order Types
Type 1 (export control) 31 33 27 66 42
Type 2 (classified) 19 41 18 21 9
Type 2 (foreign PSA) 19 33 13 12 11
Type 3 16 21 40 6 18
New Non-DoD Secrecy Orders 1 15 0 34 17
"John Doe" Secrecy Orders
(imposed on private inventors) 26 11 11 21 11
A country that spends the better part of a trillion dollars each year on its military might be expected to develop a lot of new inventions each year that have strategic military value. Wehre do any of those statistics identify anything free energy related?
Quote from: MarkE on July 26, 2015, 03:29:09 PM
You have not actually established that there is any issue.
Yes, there actually is an issue (5 years after crisis, U.S. still remains dependent on China's rare earth elements (http://www.eenews.net/stories/1060011478))
Gravock
Quote from: gravityblock on July 26, 2015, 03:41:42 PM
Yes, there actually is an issue (5 years after crisis, U.S. still remains dependent on China's rare earth elements (http://www.eenews.net/stories/1060011478))
Gravock
Did you miss the turn at Albuquerque?
@Ramset,
It would be easier to make our case if a thread was titled, "Government and Corporate Polices Hinders Alternative Energy". Polices are in a way internal laws written by and for an entity in which to follow, that doesn't apply outside of itself. Hinder is a better choice to use than suppression. Hinder, means to cause delay, interruption, or difficulty in; hamper; impede. This is exactly what the gov't and corporations have been doing.
Gravock
Quote from: MarkE on July 26, 2015, 03:47:27 PM
Did you miss the turn at Albuquerque?
No, I didn't miss the turn at Albuquerque. However, you missed the turn at building the supply chain to refine the rare earths could take a decade or two. The "so-called" rare earths is an issue that isn't going away any time soon.
Gravock
Quote from: gravityblock on July 26, 2015, 02:04:16 PM
A suppressed video of Ed using a block and tackle to build Coral Castle...
Nice video. Do you have info on his generator patent? On page 22 of his book that I have, he says...
"Suppose you had a wheel and many coils around the wheel turning, then you would be making all kinds of light. Do Not make the machine. I already have the application for patent in the Patent Office..."
...his book then goes on to explain how to make his perpetual motion holder. Since he doesn't want you to make his generator "machine", that suggests that his patent is different from the PMH of which the perpetual motion holder may only be a part of his patented machine. Your video suggests that his wheel shaped magnet generator is nothing more than a side show gag for tourists to go ohhh and ahhh at. I doubt he would try to get a patent on such a simple trick though. Perhaps he had a way of attaching his PMH to that wheel for when the tourists weren't around and that is what is in the patent?
Quote from: tinman on July 26, 2015, 07:06:00 AM
I am such an example.
I have a device that seems to put out more power than is being consumed-classic free energy device :D
laws suppressing such device can be hidden behind many forms...
Hope you are not part of the "New Non-DoD Secrecy Order Types" or the "John Doe" Secrecy Orders :(
Sometimes when you are told to throw away info, you accidentally put it in an email and send it to others instead. Accidents like that happen all the time with these new fangled computing devices that are confusing to use :)
Quote from: gravityblock on July 26, 2015, 04:26:11 PM
No, I didn't miss the turn at Albuquerque. However, you missed the turn at building the supply chain to refine the rare earths could take a decade or two. The "so-called" rare earths is an issue that isn't going away any time soon.
Gravock
LOL, so China capturing market by underpricing connects to alleged laws that suppress free energy how?
Quote from: MarkE on July 26, 2015, 04:56:24 PM
LOL, so China capturing market by underpricing connects to alleged laws that suppress free energy how?
ROFLMAO, my reply was in response to you to saying to Ramset that he had not actually established there was an issue in regards to his question, which was: "How about some productive solutions to this issue?", which was in reference to when magnets and wires are outlawed sometime in the future, since China has captured nearly all of this market.
I only established there was an issue with the rare earths, and never made the claim that China capturing the market connects to alleged laws that suppress free energy.
Gravock
Quote from: gravityblock on July 26, 2015, 05:18:50 PM
I only established there was an issue with the rare earths, and never made the claim that China capturing the market connects to alleged laws that suppress free energy.
Gravock
However, If China adopted the "policy" not to export any rare earths, then this "policy" would hinder alternative energy and it's research, along with other things.
Gravock
Quote from: MagnaProp on July 26, 2015, 04:32:30 PM
Nice video. Do you have info on his generator patent? On page 22 of his book that I have, he says...
"Suppose you had a wheel and many coils around the wheel turning, then you would be making all kinds of light. Do Not make the machine. I already have the application for patent in the Patent Office..."
...his book then goes on to explain how to make his perpetual motion holder. Since he doesn't want you to make his generator "machine", that suggests that his patent is different from the PMH of which the perpetual motion holder may only be a part of his patented machine. Your video suggests that his wheel shaped magnet generator is nothing more than a side show gag for tourists to go ohhh and ahhh at. I doubt he would try to get a patent on such a simple trick though. Perhaps he had a way of attaching his PMH to that wheel for when the tourists weren't around and that is what is in the patent?
MagnaProp,
I have a thread titled, Easter Island, Coral Castle, & Great Pyramid 100% Solved! (http://overunity.com/15663/easter-island-coral-castle-great-pyramid-100-solved/) Please feel free to copy and paste your response above to this thread if you're interested in a further discussion.
Gravock
Quote from: gravityblock on July 26, 2015, 05:18:50 PM
ROFLMAO, my reply was in response to you to saying to Ramset that he had not actually established there was an issue in regards to his question, which was: "How about some productive solutions to this issue?", which was in reference to when magnets and wires are outlawed sometime in the future, since China has captured nearly all of this market.
I only established there was an issue with the rare earths, and never made the claim that China capturing the market connects to alleged laws that suppress free energy.
Gravock
LOL sure, keep on the lookout for the secret copper wire and rare earth magnet police squads. The number of unexplained disappearances near Radio Shack stores must be very frightening.
Quote from: MarkE on July 26, 2015, 06:12:40 PM
LOL sure, keep on the lookout for the secret copper wire and rare earth magnet police squads. The number of unexplained disappearances near Radio Shack stores must be very frightening.
It happened with precious metals before in this country, and it sure can happen with the rare earths....especially if China changed their policy. This is definitely an issue since we are in tremendous debt to China, and China has already publicly stated the U.S.A. has a fake economy.
Gravock
Hey Tinman
QuoteI am such an example.[/size]I have a device that seems to put out more power than is being consumed-classic free energy device laws suppressing such device can be hidden behind many forms.National security-converts to the collapse of the petrochemical dollar. What would happen if all of a sudden no one needed to pay for fossil fuel's?.Oh ,then there is this one as i found out.A law against a non licensed electrician building and presenting/ promoting a high voltage inverter to the public<--Lol,aint that a hoot.
That is a hoot, I wired the last three houses I built from start to finish and the only thing I allowed the supposed electricians to do was install the meter. I am also qualified to operate a 200+ MW power stations including boilers and/or gas turbines so if you ever need an Engineer to sign off on the validity or safety concerning your work just PM me. I don't normally do this but I like your attitude and it is not all that different from mine.
The fact is the same rules apply and it does not matter whether we are changing out a light switch or swapping out a 100 A service panel or bringing a 10 MW turbine on line...the same rules apply and if people don't have common sense then any way you look at it disaster is imminent. The key word here is common sense and more so forethought... before you do anything ask yourself how can this go wrong and prepare for it.
On a side note I have no issue doing hot work and have been doing it for decades because I always do the same things whether the circuit is hot or not, the exact same routine applies, which ensures I always have my bases covered. The worst thing anyone can do regarding electrical work is to make assumptions... assumptions get people killed not electricity.
AC
QuoteThis sort of situation has happened before.
I don't quite understand what you mean by that? Are you suggesting that you are pro-AI and not pro-humanity? And who programs the AI? Not sure the point of that at all! 8)
What I did understand is somehow you may be an AI with no capability to understand further things that are the way of the cosmos. Lol = might not know anything regarding the "theories" of alien life.
There have been studies where the meteors that land in the earth contain the same ingredients as the earth is made and there is a theory out there that all life is using meteors as transportation to spread life in other areas (think a tree spreading seeds in the air) but also I have read papers where even in the dark matter there could be "alien"/"sperm" life floating around to land in a hospitable planet to reproduce with other alien life that has landed there too.
The theory of water in this planet coming from meteors is there too and 100% understood that rocks falling from the sky contain water. Soooo.
I believe you need to do more research in the justice of life and the possibilities of alien life, why is the truth being suppressed? I'm sure you will find a logical answer if you dig deep enough with all of the evidence of a collective human society :)
Quote from: joel321 on July 27, 2015, 01:53:01 AM
I don't quite understand what you mean by that? Are you suggesting that you are pro-AI and not pro-humanity? And who programs the AI? Not sure the point of that at all! 8)
I think that you should try to think things through calmly.
QuoteI think that you should try to think things through calmly.
Trust me I have a lot of patience to think I even know how to draw. And we all know that drawing requires patience more than the average person has. Can you draw MarkE?
Here is one of my drawings - http://i.imgur.com/pnObRkM.jpg I will tell you what I used and then you replicate it with the same amount of detail I did? Now you have to take inconsideration that I only used one pencil to make all of those shadows.
Can you reproduce my drawing with your skills using the same materials I used?
Can you draw MarkE? :P
Quote from: joel321 on July 27, 2015, 02:08:59 AM
Trust me I have a lot of patience to think I even know how to draw. And we all know that drawing requires patience more than the average person has. Can you draw MarkE?
Here is one of my drawings - http://i.imgur.com/pnObRkM.jpg I will tell you what I used and then you replicate it with the same amount of detail I did? Now you have to take inconsideration that I only used one pencil to make all of those shadows.
Can you reproduce my drawing with your skills using the same materials I used?
Can you draw MarkE? :P
Does drawing help calm you?
QuoteDoes drawing help calm you?
Drawing is a way to look at the small details as if one was doing mental or object experiments. Now if you don't know how to draw, then I guess you don't have such skills to tap in to this reveling side of the truth? HECK think of an architect that designs pencils? Or an architect that designs a computer chip? DRAWING is essential to see truth! Not to calm down :P
Yes you use a voltmeter. Yes you use resistors, magnetic wire, capacitors, diodes, etc. BUT Do you even know how they work or their principle behind them? More importantly, do you feel very confident that you can make one?
IF NOT, you cannot understand further things.
Answer me this, can you draw?
Also answer me this, how do you fix a broken item?
How do you repair a broken bone in an animal if you are a doctor?
IF you cannot see these things, you are just focusing on repairing electric components with your model of math that your teacher taught you. :)
Quote from: joel321 on July 27, 2015, 02:32:51 AM
Drawing is a way to look at the small details as if one was doing mental or object experiments. Now if you don't know how to draw, then I guess you don't have such skills to tap in to this reveling side of the truth? HECK think of an architect that designs pencils? Or an architect that designs a computer chip? DRAWING is essential to see truth! Not to calm down :P
Yes you use a voltmeter. Yes you use resistors, magnetic wire, capacitors, diodes, etc. BUT Do you even know how they work or their principle behind them? More importantly, do you feel very confident that you can make one?
IF NOT, you cannot understand further things.
Answer me this, can you draw?
Also answer me this, how do you fix a broken item?
How do you repair a broken bone in an animal if you are a doctor?
IF you cannot see these things, you are just focusing on repairing electric components with your model of math that your teacher taught you. :)
To be a good guy, you have to be a confidently heterosexual good guy.
QuoteTo be a good guy, you have to be a confidently heterosexual good guy.
I also like chopped apples. :o
Actually you reminded me of this http://imgur.com/a/T5xMJ
Just people talking about things that they cannot understand. Transcripts from Apollo 10/11.
Ah well, MarkE go eat your Flintstones vitamins. lol
@Joel,
The second image below of rubicon will give you insight into the first.
Gravock
Quote from: allcanadian on July 26, 2015, 06:23:18 PM
Hey Tinman
That is a hoot, I wired the last three houses I built from start to finish and the only thing I allowed the supposed electricians to do was install the meter. I am also qualified to operate a 200+ MW power stations including boilers and/or gas turbines so if you ever need an Engineer to sign off on the validity or safety concerning your work just PM me. I don't normally do this but I like your attitude and it is not all that different from mine.
The fact is the same rules apply and it does not matter whether we are changing out a light switch or swapping out a 100 A service panel or bringing a 10 MW turbine on line...the same rules apply and if people don't have common sense then any way you look at it disaster is imminent. The key word here is common sense and more so forethought... before you do anything ask yourself how can this go wrong and prepare for it.
On a side note I have no issue doing hot work and have been doing it for decades because I always do the same things whether the circuit is hot or not, the exact same routine applies, which ensures I always have my bases covered. The worst thing anyone can do regarding electrical work is to make assumptions... assumptions get people killed not electricity.
AC
Would they recognise your (extensive) quals over here though? I've been thinking of ways to get past this sort of clamp on activity. I could certainly be told to take down all my slayer circuit videos and some of the pulse motors that were putting out 1KV. I'm wondering if you could get around it by making the viewer responsible through disclaimers or something similar.
@jimboot
QuoteWould they recognise your (extensive) quals over here though? I've been
thinking of ways to get past this sort of clamp on activity. I could certainly
be told to take down all my slayer circuit videos and some of the pulse motors
that were putting out 1KV. I'm wondering if you could get around it by making
the viewer responsible through disclaimers or something similar.
If this is true then they would be limiting your freedom of speech concerning legitimate scientific inquires. To my knowledge they do not possess such authority and I would reject their claim outright until such time as they could show proof otherwise. They can yip and yap all they want but until they can show written proof applied in the correct context then they have no authority over anything. I always ask for written proof signed by the person making the claim at which point they generally crawl back into the hole they came from because few if any are stupid enough to be held personally accountable for their actions they know are questionable.
In fact they tried to pull similar BS in Canada however we are very independent here and the people involved were informed in no uncertain terms that if they try to pursue this matter they will be seeking new employment in the near future. I was surprised they had the balls to even suggest that somehow people were not qualified to do their own plumbing or electrical work or install a new window and such on their own property. In any case they got the message loud and clear and I have heard nothing of it since that time. It is not so much a conspiracy other than the fact the contractor companies have tried to pay off the politicians to force homeowners to hire the contractors rather than be able to do the work themselves. It has nothing to do with FE and it would force homeowners to hire contractors to do work at inflated prices.... it's all about money.
AC
Hmmm
You folks under the Queens influence seem to have some odd laws
No fussing with High voltage ? how do you fix your model A's ignition...?
I know that Folks who support Big Government would love for the USA to be put in similar Choke holds.And quite certain they will try
after all It would not be safe !!!!
I still haven't figured out how they allow us to buy volatile bomb making Gas and drive cars/3 ton projectiles...or even allow the misses to Cook on her gas stove
I could go on and on and on ...
Quote from: ramset on July 27, 2015, 11:25:26 AM
Hmmm
You folks under the Queens influence seem to have some odd laws
No fussing with High voltage ? how do you fix your model A's ignition...?
I know that Folks who support Big Government would love for the USA to be put in similar Choke holds.And quite certain they will try
after all It would not be safe !!!!
I still haven't figured out how they allow us to buy volatile bomb making Gas and drive cars/3 ton projectiles
Haven't you been following the trend? In fifteen years or less it will likely require special certifications to do that.
Quote...or even allow the misses to Cook on her gas stove
I could go on and on and on ...
QuoteI'm wondering if you could get around it by making the viewer responsible through disclaimers or something similar.
Sure, that's why they haven't come after me yet. Isn't it?
Well I think as with most things a complaint is required first then the Authorities will apply any damn law they can to prevent the offender from persisting. As they should.
ie. If anyone had complained about me running my Tesla coil and disrupting their TV reception then the authorities might threaten me with some laws surrounding RF transmission or something and not even bother with the HV thing. That does not mean they would be right or able to stop me. It just means they have warned me that they will try to stop me using those laws.
Know your rights and stand up for them. If something might be a problem then find a way to make it not a problem.
eg. If a neighbor complained about my Tesla Transformer affecting TV reception or whatever then I simply should find a way to run the coil without it affecting the neighbors TV reception. Then if they cannot detect any RF that would cause a disturbance they have no problem to deal with.
Same with the safety laws. There is always a way around a problem.
Quite often the police will use any laws they can to prevent a person from doing something if there is no laws directly addressing the problem. Doesn't mean they always use the laws "legally", a lot of the time they just need to threaten people with something, the behavior stops and the problem is solved.
This is the way of the world. If a person is doing something that someone thinks is wrong and a complaint is made using some pretext then the complaint is usually acted on in some way to resolve the complaint.
One way to beat the voltage limitations ect. by law is to "Get Qualified". Oh and don't encourage everyone to do dangerous stuff, give warnings ect..
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Here is an example not related to free energy.
Situation 1. I am revving my friends 265 Hemi in the back yard during the day, the neighbor complains, the police come and tell me I am disturbing the peace, I stop what I am doing and complain to everybody that the Government is against tuning cars and Hemi motors. It's a conspiracy.
Situation 2. I am revving my friends 265 Hemi in the back yard during the day, the neighbor complains, the police come and tell me I am disturbing the peace. I inform them that the car is road legal and I am running through a tuning procedure, the area is Zoned light Industrial and I am well within my rights, the policeman then goes to the neighbor and informs them I am not breaking any laws. They cannot stop me as yet.
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Quote from: TinselKoala on July 27, 2015, 06:34:47 PM
Sure, that's why they haven't come after me yet. Isn't it?
ROFLMAO! A disclaimer in a video doesn't protect you against a law you have broken in said video!
If you have broken a law in one of your videos, then they haven't come after you yet for one of three reasons:
1.) You haven't drawn the attention of the authorities yet.
2.) The authorities are just as ignorant to that particular law as the person who is breaking that particular law.
3.) The authorities don't care about enforcing that particular law
Gravock
This document says that if the electrical pressure to be
supplied is above 50 volts for AC or 120 volts for DC then Licensing is required to be legal. So if the supplied power is only 12 volts then there is no need to worry and no laws are breached, there should be no problem and
no one can complain, regardless of the output voltage. Especially if the setup is powered by a battery. The text is fairly plain to read.
These are the rules I understand as being correct. And fair enough too.
Dept. of Commerce Western Australia.
http://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/energysafety/licensing-electrical-workers-and-electrical-contractors
QuoteWhat is electrical work?
Electrical work is defined in the Electricity (Licensing) Regulations 1991 and means work on electrical machines or instruments, on an electrical installation or on electrical appliances or equipment to which electricity is supplied or intended to be supplied, at a nominal pressure exceeding 50 volts alternating current or 120 volts direct current, whether or not the thing on which the work is being performed is part of, or is connected to or to be connected to, any distribution works or private generating plant and, where work is performed on any appliance, whether or not electricity is supplied or may be supplied thereto through an electric plug socket or socket outlet.
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Things could get tricky at some point. eg. if I run an inverter from a battery then it's output is 240 volts AC and so I cannot perform work on things that receive the inverter output as input unless I am qualified. The way around that is to incorporate an inverter of my own construction into the device's design and hard wire it as a part of one big device.
Where there is a will there is a way. :)
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G,B., Tinsel takes precautions to prevent complaints is my guess, even if he is Licensed and qualified that would be good practice.
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It is perfectly legal to use 3 big batteries in series to provide 36 volts at 100 amperes to a homemade inverter that produces 20 000 volts output. That is how I read the "Laws".
What you do with the 20 000 volts pressure is up to you, some things will be illegal some things won't. If you electrocute someone else with the 20 000 volts pressure and the current it produces then that would be illegal and wrong. If you apply the 20 000 volts to a valid load then it should be legal. From what I've read anyway.
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Quote from: Farmhand on July 27, 2015, 08:04:08 PM
G,B., Tinsel takes precautions to prevent complaints is my guess, even if he is Licensed and qualified that would be good practice.
Yes, I agree a disclaimer is good practice in regards to avoiding civil lawsuits.
However, a disclaimer in a video will not protect you against a law that is broken in that video as Tinsel suggested.
Gravock
Maybe not, but the disclaimer may prevent complaints.
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Quote from: tinman on July 26, 2015, 08:52:17 AM
You will be surprised at what we are doing that we shouldnt be doing Jim.We are suppose to have a licence if we go above 50 VAC,or 120 VDC-regardless of current. As silly as it sounds,a lot of the higher voltage JT's would exceed 50VAC-and tesla coils-forget it-your done.
So like i said,when the time come's,there are laws they can sting you with.
This is from the WA.gov.au website.
Quote: Electrical work is defined in the Electricity (Licensing) Regulations 1991 and means work on electrical machines or instruments, on an electrical installation or on electrical appliances or equipment to which electricity is supplied or intended to be supplied, at a nominal pressure exceeding 50 volts alternating current or 120 volts direct current, whether or not the thing on which the work is being performed is part of, or is connected to or to be connected to, any distribution works or private generating plant and, where work is performed on any appliance, whether or not electricity is supplied or may be supplied thereto through an electric plug socket or socket outlet.
Section 3.3 of the WAES
Where sources of electricity generation are installed in a consumer's premises, the generator
electrical installation shall comply with relevant technical standards including:
• AS/NZS: 3010:2005 Electrical installations – generating sets;
• AS 4509.1:2009 Stand-alone power systems – safety and installation;
• AS 4777:2005 Grid connection of energy systems via inverters;
• AS/NZS 5033:2005 Installation of photo-voltaic (PV) arrays; and
• the Wiring Rules.
Further requirements of network operators may be found in their connection requirements.
In particular, where an installation has multiple alternative sources of supply (incorporating either
automatic and or manual switching), all associated circuits and equipment including isolating
switches shall have signage and labelling as required by the relevant standards. Further detailed
labelling requirements are provided in section 3.5 (below).
Installation or modification of on-site power generation is 'notifiable work' as defined in the Electricity
Licensing Regulations 1991 and, in particular, notices of work shall be submitted to the network
operator as required by Regulations 51 and 52.
http://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/energysafety/licensing-electrical-workers-and-electrical-contractors
http://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/sites/default/files/atoms/files/waer_2014_0.pdf
Tinman is clearly confused or lacking comprehension skills. A JT usually runs from 12 to 24 volts supplied voltage pressure and so breaks no laws regarding supply voltage limits for anyone to build and operate.
I have a resonant transformer that runs from 12 volts supply, it can develop over 50 volts on the primary (through resonance) and it can develop over 1600 volts AC peak to peak on one secondary or 3200 volts across both secondaries in series. There is nothing illegal about it and no laws are broken because the supply pressure is between 12 to 13 volts DC. It could be very lethal if I was to charge a largish capacitance with the HV output then allow the capacitance to discharge through my body. But the chances are if I can build such a thing I am unlikely to do that and if I do it is my own fault.
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Quote from: Farmhand on July 27, 2015, 08:24:12 PM
Maybe not, but the disclaimer may prevent complaints.
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IMO, I seriously doubt a disclaimer will prevent complaints.
They tried to put a disclaimer on synthetic marijuana being sold as incense in stores which said, "not for human consumption....". The disclaimer didn't prevent the complaints and the product was pulled off the shelf and those involved were arrested and charged.
Gravock
"Sources of electricity generation", means something that is generating electricity from some other form of energy/stored energy. A device that takes an electrical input and gives an electrical output is not a generator it is a converter or transformer.
Maybe if a device with an electrical input that outputs more electrical energy than is input to it could be a kind of generator but only if the extra output energy was not derived from an outside source of electricity (then it's an over C.O.P. = 1 converter).
No one has shown that as yet though. If Tinman's device was to output more electrical energy than is input to it from him then what is the source of the extra energy ? For if the latter is an electrical source the device is not a generator but an over C.O.P. =1 converter. That's free info.
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Basically the rules say you cannot do "work" on an electrical generator installed at a "consumers premises", so I cannot mess with the wiring on a fuel powered generator head unless I am licensed. And those rules are for installations to consumers premises so it's "paid for" electrical work they are talking about there. I think. And possibly only for grid connected gear or connected to premises that are connected to the grid. It would pay to read the document fully. I haven't.
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The way I see it it is ok to do wiring on a standalone wind powered electrical generator as well as the connecting circuitry and loads as long as the voltage does not exceed 50 volts AC or 120 volts DC at any point in the arrangement. A final output of 240 volts AC from an inverter or whatever to a legally certified device (not a grid tie inverter) would be ok.
In other words I can generate electricity at a pressure of less than 50 volts AC then convert it to 80 volts DC to supply an inverter to power a fan or lights ect. no problem. Or I could generate electricity at less than 50 volts AC/120 volts DC pressure with any device I want to make and use that output to power any other device I want as long as no input is over 50 volts for AC or 120 volts for DC.
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Quote from: gravityblock on July 27, 2015, 08:38:09 PM
IMO, I seriously doubt a disclaimer will prevent complaints.
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Gravock
Yeah I complain about TKs vids did me no good *ducks
lol some of Tinsels Warning text is in 3D looks like, the folks that have some red - blue glasses on will see some warning text coming out of the screen a bit. If that doesn't put the fear of death into people nothing will. :)
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