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Hey everyone here is the PDF from S1r...its from HIS folder on Yahoo group WaterFuel1978


LET THE FUN BEGIN!!  ;D

Lets start a new topic for the S1r setup.


download the PDF below!

SOMEBODY PINCH ME I MUST BE DREAMING Chet

Quote from: ramset on July 08, 2008, 04:04:20 PM
SOMEBODY PINCH ME I MUST BE DREAMING Chet

What.. Dreaming of how this could possibly work from this description  ???
What is he using for the base core. A nail ??? Or is he using 14 gauge copper wire.  ???
Maybe he could supply a picture. Seems a first glance that this is a large inductor.

<pinch>  ....LOL

Here is how i see the setup...any takers?

(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.designstudioexpress.com%2Fcoil_setup.png&hash=ee3a493c9a41386c7b3944201af04f67afd5136a)

From Waterfuel1978 group...

QuoteIf I understand your connection instructions it would seem that the
7 turn and 13 turn 16 guage wire should get pretty hot since they are
connected in series from the battery to ground. The resistance of 16
guage stranded wire is 4.0843 ohms per 1000 ft. which is .004 ohms/ft
if you used 2ft total it would be .008 lets round upt to .01 ohms .
Connected across the battery would draw 12v/.01ohms = 1200 amps. Well
we know the battery won't supply 1200 amps. So something is amiss in
my understanding of your circuit or your instructions.

S1r response....lol

QuoteThank you I forgot some thing in there.

priceless....  :D

Pic of the coil

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a222/NXSLT1/bb56.jpg

Quote from: bumfuzzled on July 08, 2008, 04:48:02 PM
Pic of the coil

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a222/NXSLT1/bb56.jpg

SOOOO... why hide that for so long...LOL

Quote from: xbox hacker on July 08, 2008, 04:43:30 PM
From Waterfuel1978 group...


S1r response....lol

priceless....  :D

1200 amps.. It would be better to run an electric motor.. ::)
Your picture is close to what I get when reading the document which basically turns this into a giant heater. So what did he forget ? A giant fuse.. :o
I think what he is trying to do is piggyback a transformer to the ignition coil wire so it increases the current.

Xbox looks good  so simple ' but not ' and hes doing a build vid I can't stop smiling  yah gotta love this guy a true hero  Chet

Refresh this page ...i updated my drawing, per his photo on the yahoo group!

Its also not to scale... ;D

I'm all for this working but I'm not gettin my hopes up. He just caught in several lies. He aint in it for the money......why a patent then?? He was keeping the tin can hidden yet he stated he wanted to help poor people, well then reveal it so thousands of people can work to perfect it. He stated in the video that the inverter WAS hooked up, now he says it wasn't. Not getting my hope up yet but I am headed off to the garage to build one of these coils.

Hi all,
Any idea about why the primary coil must be uninsulated??
I hope it should be somewat isulated some volts running there...

Excuse my ignorance.
Best whises, Ri :-[

Hi Everyone,

Here is the picture of S1R's coil.  I took the liberty to enhance the picture by placing readable text everywhere he had written something.  Hope this helps!

Regards,
Geo

I just watched s1r's first video again. I must be missing somthing. The inverter looks like it is hooked up. One leg to the base of the plug, the other goes into the can.

Quote from: gettinwet on July 08, 2008, 05:49:00 PM
I just watched s1r's first video again. I must be missing somthing. The inverter looks like it is hooked up. One leg to the base of the plug, the other goes into the can.

Did you read the document?
"Now the inverter cant be used with this transformer. The supply of power is in at
wave form and the inverter will only level the wave back down to the point where
it will not work.
This transformer will boost to power to the plug by about 2oo times that of the
stock system.
The video showed the inverter hooked up, well it is and ant. As many noticed in the
first video. The wires to the inverter was mint to carry the 12 volts to the new coil
only. I didn?t notice it until it was mentioned about on the video, even raised a
question on my part as to how the engine started , then I found out. The battery
charger was supplying the power to the coil . Sorry to do that but it was necessary
because of a reason I will disclose latter."

Quote from: xbox hacker on July 08, 2008, 05:15:25 PM
Refresh this page ...i updated my drawing, per his photo on the yahoo group!

Its also not to scale... ;D

That is a better diagram. Where does the 14 gauge uninsulated wire go ?? Looks like red wire insulation to me from the 'real device' photo. Having it feed from a lamp now makes sense as this would limit current flow. I bet the battery feeding this is taking a beating from back feed high voltage spikes. Looks like no diodes involved. Hummm.. Still not adding up..

Just built the coil and it did nothing other than give me the regular HV arc. I don't know electricity very well but I don't see what this is doing. You've got the HV inducing into the LV so how is this giving you 200 times more power??

S1r:
I remember that you increased the carb jets 2 sizes in the El Camino 350 V8.  Did you do any increase of jets or whatever for the B & S 18 HP motor?  How did you increase the volume of water vs. gasoline in the B & S or did you?

Also, did you ever put a hole in the top of the water "tank" to allow the air in to displace the water draining out, to avoid the vacuum that would tend to make the water "pulse" out instead of flow evenly?

Capacitor 70

See the two comments above and please, comment as to whether or not you made these two adjustments to your motorcycle tests?

Michael Couch
ArrestCheneyBush
for 9/11 Treason (yahoo e-group)
Run your Car and house on Water (watercar e-group)
Public funding of elections, Defend the Constitution
Save 29,000 children today support UN MD Goals.
DELETE before you reply  to digests [Ctrl] [A], [Delete]

Quote from: hydrocontrol on July 08, 2008, 07:15:40 PM
That is a better diagram. Where does the 14 gauge uninsulated wire go ?? Looks like red wire insulation to me from the 'real device' photo. Having it feed from a lamp now makes sense as this would limit current flow. I bet the battery feeding this is taking a beating from back feed high voltage spikes. Looks like no diodes involved. Hummm.. Still not adding up..

One end if the 14ga goes to the plug and the other goes to the ignition output. In the PDF he says to put a "limiter switch of some sort"... put a lamp inline with the output if the seconds winding and the ground.

One thing that i would like to point out is the coil size compared to the nail size... here is a image to show you.

Also should the coil be wound a certain way? Or should that not matter ???

Quote from: bumfuzzled on July 08, 2008, 07:33:42 PM
Just built the coil and it did nothing other than give me the regular HV arc. I don't know electricity very well but I don't see what this is doing. You've got the HV inducing into the LV so how is this giving you 200 times more power??

This is providing a diversion as someone else is getting too close to really figuring it out. Someone like gotoluc or Cap70 or several other people. I have been playing with this. It appears to be smoke and mirrors unless some other information is missing. Hope I am wrong and I am missing something but with something this simple I doubt it.

Quote from: hydrocontrol on July 08, 2008, 08:42:59 PM
This is providing a diversion as someone else is getting too close to really figuring it out. Someone like gotoluc or Cap70 or several other people. I have been playing with this. It appears to be smoke and mirrors unless some other information is missing. Hope I am wrong and I am missing something but with something this simple I doubt it.

So you think its a scam? LOL personally i wouldn't expect anything different. But tis all ways fun to try!

Quote from: hydrocontrol on July 08, 2008, 08:42:59 PM
This is providing a diversion as someone else is getting too close to really figuring it out. Someone like gotoluc or Cap70 or several other people. I have been playing with this. It appears to be smoke and mirrors unless some other information is missing. Hope I am wrong and I am missing something but with something this simple I doubt it.

That's my thought but I had to try. Either he's leaving something out or he's full of it. I even tried pulsing the two coils that are connected to each other with 12v and 120.

Keep in mind that the HV from the Magneto is going in here somewhere.

Michael Couch

S!R will fix it   no need to think Scam prematurely Chet

Quote from: cmichaelcouch on July 08, 2008, 09:57:53 PM
Keep in mind that the HV from the Magneto is going in here somewhere.

Michael Couch

The HV goes in on the bare 14 ga wire.

Quote from: xbox hacker on July 08, 2008, 09:31:29 PM
So you think its a scam? LOL personally i wouldn't expect anything different. But tis all ways fun to try!

I did not imply that did I  ;)  I just think something is still left out.  ;D Give it a couple more days and a few more people replicating before we go down that road. ::) I still think the setup that gotoluc, Capacitor70, and ozzie are playing with show more promise then the weak setup I see with this spark which looks like a normal spark. No plasma here that I can see. Still I might have something wrong with my setup so a couple more people need to try.

bad post
ops!

How to trigger plasma without diodes ?
1. Coil Black Wire carries high current, red wire low current for bulb
2. Bulb helps to conduct transformer. Without Bulb How you can make transformer work ?
3. Why we are using diodes, diodes prevent HV from going to battery side, we need spark
   at the tip of the spark plug and at the same time DC voltage across the tip. This is achived here with coil.
4. When HV gives spike to the coil, on coil secondery battery is connected which comes
   in series with HV induced in its coil, so the votage at the tip of spark plug is
   Bat + HV, creates plasma channel. No need of inverter, once plasma channel is created and discharge starts you need to disconnect battery
   from draining it completely. Sr1 is taking about some waveforms....
5. Once the plasma channel is created Battery current flows through plasma channel (Thousands of Amps ) and
   bulb turns off, and HV coil is also in off state. This battery voltage is having large current, current is important
   for plasma blast this way it works. Plasma have infinity conductivity (zero resistance).
6. It dosent matter how much voltage is why we need voltage is to just to cover voltage drop of our diodes.
   I have taken trials with 175V DC and 315V DC both have nearly same effect.

Hear is pic of coil wiring... Make sure coil polarity (direction of turns)

Cap70, in the photo he doesn't have the high curent coil tied in with the HV out to the plug. Also, look at the main windings, doesn't that look like black insulated wire instead of the bare 14 ga wire he is saying it should be??

I don't know how S1r9 coil is connected or wound, Above details shows principle behind the coil....

The circuit shown can not be correct. If it was, there would have to be 4 wires coming out of the container and I can only see 3.

One is from the coil, another from the inverter, and the last one going to the plug.

Quote from: nightlife on July 09, 2008, 01:15:36 AM
The circuit shown can not be correct. If it was, there would have to be 4 wires coming out of the container and I can only see 3.

One is from the coil, another from the inverter, and the last one going to the plug.

Cap70's revision of the drawing would mean only 3 wires. What get's me is the inverter isn't hooked to the battery so how is he getting 12v to the coil???

Understand concept, Not drawings.... This help you much or wait for 3 more years to get it clear.....

The running model is I developed by understanding concepts behind it, not by looking to the drawings.....

s1r9a9m9 already given you a lot of details....whats more you can expect ?

bumfuzzled,

QuoteCap70's revision of the drawing would mean only 3 wires.

If that is true, where is the ground wire for the light bulb? Where is the bulb getting it's ground from if only 3 wires are being used?

QuoteWhat get's me is the inverter isn't hooked to the battery so how is he getting 12v to the coil???

From the motors power generating source.

Hey capacitor,hows it going?You make any more progress in you trials?Very impressive so far.

Thanks for the circuit diagram, cap70.  I understand it better now.  Before it didn't make any sense, but now it does.  Thanks again!  You sure are a BIG help!!

Well here are my thoughts about the circuit...  ;)

As I see it, this coil setup works pretty similar to the Stan Meyer coil, or the Tesla patent how to rectify without diodes, just with coils...

This is how I see it, what this circuit does:

* If nothing is running, then the LV is running the lightbulb and at the same time, is responsible that quite some current is running through the LV coil, which does generate a magnetic field...which should also drive the core (nail) into saturation...(this is the only reason why the lamp and lv running while no firing is needed)

* If now the HV is firing the core is already in saturation and therefore the Hv coil does not see a big inductance. Now it will let the HV through to the spark, maybe there will also be a little transformer action, due to the coils being quite close together, but as the core is saturated I personally think it should not be big...
(This is somewhat strange for I think some transfromer action could be better, so that the LV coil gets an even higher voltage than the HV part. This would surely protect the LV part completely. If this would be wanted, then the coils should be ontop of each other... Then it would be kinda a circuit like that here: http://www.myelectricengine.com/projects/mpdthruster/ignition/ignition.html (http://www.myelectricengine.com/projects/mpdthruster/ignition/ignition.html))
Nevertheless. If we think, there's little transformer action , then the Tesla principle has to work. Mainly, that the HV surge does see the unsaturated side of the lv inductance and will have a great deal of problem to flow to the battery (high impedance), therefore will also protect the battery from the HV.

Like that the HV can build the spark.

* As soon as the HV is over, the LV current will continue to flow, as at the beginning. But as now there's still some arc left from the HV, the LV gets discharged through the plug instead of the lamp. Now without any amp limiting device (lamp).

* After some time, the LV will not be able to maintain the plasma and the resistance of the spark gap will again rise, so that now, all the LV is again discharging through the lamp...
(And we are back at the beginning...)

Ahh, I forgot the lamp coil...Well, maybe just another protection from the hv surge, but a little bit made in a strange way...

Well these are just my quick thoughts. Hasn't be to be correct in any sense...

Second thought:
In layman terms a coil action is described as: The coil always tries to keep the current flowing at the same level...
So in this view, if the coil was running at 5Amps and you suddenly raise one side to a HV. If this layman term would be still correct, then the coil would still have to output its 5Amps, but now on HV level...

But as I said, this is in layman's terms, and far from any known electric science.
(But sometimes a layman finds things, a pro doesn't...)

QuoteI just watched s1r's first video again. I must be missing somthing. The inverter looks like it is hooked up. One leg to the base of the plug, the other goes into the can.

Aehmm, where's this video???

video 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tb3d_hf7R10
video 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBCl3OdM9Y4

Thank you very much! I really like the way, water powered motors sound like... ;D

Again about the LV coil HV interaction. As I see it from a electronic side of it. The HV surge on the LV coil would try to stop the amp flow through the coil, so the coil would answer, as if it has been disconnected -> an inductive kickback (like the primary of an ignition coil). So it would also by itself generate a HV pulse by this inductive kickback, without any "transformer" interaction.
The only thing I think is strange, is the extremely low number of turns of the coils...
I could understand it, in the setup with the relay's, for the relays do have quite some turns, but 13 turns?

BTW: If this circuit really uses the Tesla way of protecting the LV side, then it would be essential for security to add a varistor on the battery side. Because if, due to any reason, the HV surge is not capable of discharging through the plug, it will go to the bat, although the impedance is big...(the impedance of the plug should always be much smaller than the lv coil...)

As I said before, these are just my thought. I don't tell anyone they are correct.
But maybe someone gets inspired by this. As I see it, it's best if everybody contributes his thoughts, so that we together can finally get to the solution...

Really cool of him to show it. A lot of stuff has happened in a very short time soon enough we'll be all putting water in our engines :D.

Quote from PDF.....

QuoteThe video showed the inverter hooked up, well it is and ant. As many noticed in the
first video. The wires to the inverter was mint to carry the 12 volts to the new coil
only. I didn?t notice it until it was mentioned about on the video, even raised a
question on my part as to how the engine started , then I found out. The battery
charger was supplying the power to the coil . Sorry to do that but it was necessary
because of a reason I will disclose latter

In vid 1 you can clearly see that the inverter is NOT connected to the battery! Their is no "it is and it aint"....IT AINT. Also how would the battery charger supply the coil with power with its not connected to the can either?

Quote from: xbox hacker on July 09, 2008, 08:11:16 AM
Quote from PDF.....
In vid 1 you can clearly see that the inverter is NOT connected to the battery! Their is no "it is and it aint"....IT AINT. Also how would the battery charger supply the coil with power with its not connected to the can either?

Skeptic mode on  ;)
" First video. For the amount of time the engine was shown to run it can easily run on any GAS that was already in the carburetor. Xbox appears to be correct in the observation of how this could work in the first video without the battery hooked up and with only half the battery charger hooked up. Maybe it was not running on water but on gas still in the carburetor.
Second video: Much better from a skeptic side. No Carburetor, at least that is the impression we get from him removing and throwing down the carburetor at the start of the video but with the camera angle you can not tell where the water tube is being inserted.  The water line does not appear to be inserted in the engine intake that the carburetor would bolt too. It appears to be inserted into the air intake on top of the engine so what keeps the water from just running out of the bottle. It does look good that there are bubbles in the bottle when the engine is running but this maybe why the engine does not stay running. Perhaps they should put a hole in the bottom of the bottle to let air in and the water flow out.
Skeptic mode off

Observation.. These guys really need to bolt down the engine to a table. Maybe half hour to throw something together with even scrap lumber. What are we talking here.. maybe 10 bucks of lumber. For someone that just spend a good amount of money on a new engine to do this demonstration experiment you would think that trying to nicely present it on a video would be up there on the list. A cheap starter switch or starter relay would be a nice touch. With just those two improvements then only one person needs to run it and then that one person can do walk around video. A flywheel would also help keep the engine going as most small mower engines need some sort of mass to move like a mower blade or a large pulley. This engine is a bit bigger than most so it may not be as important. How are they avoiding the problem of two sparks for engine cycle ?

H may not matter [the phantom spark ] with this system   was thinking a 4 stroke may not be negatively effected by this  it didn't appear to blow back through the intake  Chet

hydrocontrol:

He didn't remove the carburetor. He removed the float bowl from the bottom of the carburetor.

The float bowl is filled with gas from the gas tank. It has a shutoff valve that stops the gas flow when the bowl is full.
With it removed there would not be enough gas residue to fire the engine over more than a couple of cycles.

The air intake for that particular carburetor is on top. He does appear to be putting the water line into the air intake.

Quote from: boke on July 09, 2008, 10:10:57 AM
hydrocontrol:

He didn't remove the carburetor. He removed the float bowl from the bottom of the carburetor.

The float bowl is filled with gas from the gas tank. It has a shutoff valve that stops the gas flow when the bowl is full.
With it removed there would not be enough gas residue to fire the engine over more than a couple of cycles.

The air intake for that particular carburetor is on top. He does appear to be putting the water line into the air intake.

I agreed it was only the float bowl that was removed and not the carburetor.

Skeptic mode back on  ;)
What puzzles me is how the water bottle with the hose behaves. There should be a steady stream of bubbles all the time if there is no valve on the end of the hose to restrict flow but your only see bubbles when the engine is running. I looked up the Briggs 18hp engine to look at pictures. The air cleaner area is large enough to hid a small bottle dripping gas to run the engine for a short period of time. I am not saying that is the case here only that it is possible.
Skeptic mode off.

Okay. Enough being skeptic.  I have a Briggs 7hp electric start engine. Time to start playing.

Quote from: nightlife on July 09, 2008, 02:34:41 AM
bumfuzzled,
If that is true, where is the ground wire for the light bulb? Where is the bulb getting it's ground from if only 3 wires are being used?

From the motors power generating source.

But there are no wires coming from it's charging circuit into the tin can either. If you look closely at video one there's a couple wires running into/underneath the bottom of the motor from somewhere around the starter. They are grayish in color. These could just be going to the solenoid on the starter from when it was on a lawnmower or it could be something else, like 12v from the jumper cables hooked to the starter to the tin can from the backside of of the can, hidden. Personally I think he's trying to throw us a curveball.

I would suggest instead of speculating on the coil, wait until S1r shows the video of how his coil is built and then try to replicate that.

Hello all

I finished the coil and going to give it a try, however I'm running an 6 Volt CDI system so I really dont know what to expect.

/Fast

I personally like tinkering around. Otherwise I could just sit in a corner and wait until sombody modifies my car... ;D

I just thought about the statement of S1r, that he needs to use a bat charger for the 12V LV otherwise it would not work, and that he would disclose this later...

Well, if the circuit works as I intended before, then the HV Spark has to be positive. But as far as I know most ignition circuits are made, so that the coils fire negative...(is that correct?)
Well you could just exchange the wires to the coil, but then you have an additional problem: If your coil has fired, the coil has no more connection to gnd, but only to 12V. This means, that in the worst case your battery gets the whole surge...
This could only be circumvented if you are as consequent and also wire the engine so, that the whole engine block gets an exchange of 12V and Gnd. So that now, the "Plug GND" is also on 12V...
But then you could not use the lv discharge, for 12V to 12V wouldn't do anything...
Therefore you need an additional isolated 12V source (eg. second bat or a bat charger...) for the lv discharge, where you connect the gnd of your second source to the 12v of the first source.

Hmm, OK maybe this was too much tinkering...I think I shouldn't post so much anymore in here, it will just annoy other people... I will try to stop myself more in the future...

This is what S1r forgot.....

QuoteYes and I went back and added it to the page. It was about haveing
the # 2 and three coils charged at all times. I set the page up as a
html because my pc for some reason dont make pdf files.

But yes I did go back and put in what I forgot.

I am very tired, sorry.

S1R.

Quote from: xbox hacker on July 09, 2008, 05:04:21 PM
This is what S1r forgot.....

He must have forgotten that early yesterday because that's how I hooked mine up. That's what the 60 watt bulb is for, to keep it from being a dead short on those two windings. Main problem is he doesn't say which way to wind each coil, but I still don't see just this coil doing anything.

ok, lets carry it together:

--- In WaterFuel1978@yahoogroups.com, "s1r9a9m9" <s1r9a9m9@...> wrote:
>
> The coil must have a power supply at all times to energize the wire
> when the engine coil fires. This can be done by useing a fog light
> or small 12 volt motor, or just some thing that will draw power
> through the wire through the coil. It may be possible to run the
> charging wire from the alternator to the battery through the coil
and
> get the same results. It would not be drawing any power from the
> system because it would not be interupted as it flows to the
battery.
> I am still reading through about 6 thousnd pages of work others
have
> provided on this project. I gots a head ache.
>
> I am still looking for a source for the relays. If I find any I
will
> let every one know where I got them.
>
>
> Some one said that you cant get high voltage from a 12 volt system
> just useing the power of the battery and alt.,. but what is the
> voltage coming from the cars coil to the plugs on a car? the fire
> that has always bit me has been over 28000v @ 0.78 amps. or more.
> now all we are doing is adding another coil to boost the fire from
> the first coil to 100 times the stock out put, but we are doing a
> little more we are slowing it down a little and adding some amps
back
> to it as well.
>
>
> It ant rocket science but its not far from it. It seems simple to
be
> able to work, but a lot of time has went into this, and its not
> finished yet.
>
> The engine still surges. It needs a fuel supply system that feeds
it
> as it needs it. there are other things that need to be done as
well.
> I dont have all the answers but I am looking.
>
> I just got lucky on the Elcamino and the generator. Now it needs to
> be made to go on any car or truck. and cheap as posible.
>
>
> A 65amp alternator will charge three car batteries under a 30
percent
> load, and maintain the batteries at 90 percent charge. So how many
> math-tithions will say this cant be done. When the car is running
how
> much powere does it use? Now starting it is another thing , about
150
> amps is pulled from the battery when starting a car engine it is
> replaced with in the first 2 minutes of run time. this is the
hardest
> time for the batterys life , heavy discharge then quick recharge.
But
> how much power does the rest of the car use? Less than 8 percent of
> the batteries copasity. unless you turn on every thing then you are
> useing 20 percent. Stuff on a car does not draw a constant load. It
> veries with engine speed battery condition and other factors as
well.
> Refrence to GM spects on automoitive electrical system uses and
> condition of components. Thats some tough reading.
>
> So we put this coil on each plug with a load pulled through it
going
> to maybe some thing that is being used all the time any ways and we
> now have a system within a system that will draw 3 percent more
from
> the power system than before. We are still not over taxing our
> battery and charging system.
>
> Now as for how to get the water fuel into the cylinders, I havent a
> clue as to how each vehicle will be done. Its not a constant flow
to
> each piston. It takes a lot, but only when it needs it.
>
> Well as I said I dont have all the answers but I do have a bunch of
> papers to go through and sort out a few more things.
>
> I am working on a video to show how to make the coil and what it
does
> hooked up and working.
>
> S1R.
>

------------------
Re: B&S 18 HP Jet size


It didnt matter about the jet size this time , because I ran the hose
into the breather port hole and not through the carb.

None of the engine was modified except the breather filter removed.
This is a stock engine running on water.

The vaccum in the bottle was needed for this test, it had to draw
only what it needed as it needed it , as you could see in video 2
when I gave it to much it shut down and water vapor came out the
exhaust. A valve would have helped but my budget is gone, And its
shoe string streching time for parts.
------------------

It has been said that before the breather filter is the best place for
it because of flash back from the engine. It does help to have the
filter between the intake and the gas flow. If you can make a filter
that fits the end of your flow line then you can put it on the rubber
part close to the engine intake. A vaccuum line will draw the gas but
will also draw some of the water from your tank. If its a small hose
you could use a regular gas filter in the line to stop flash back, one
of those clear ones at the parts store.

----------------------

A Big Thank You S1!!!!

S1 you post a build vid of that coil  I guarantee you will be compensated Chet

Quote from: ramset on July 09, 2008, 05:49:39 PM
S1 you post a build vid of that coil  I guarantee you will be compensated Chet

A video is worth about 10,000 words ...LOL

QuoteThe vaccum in the bottle was needed for this test, it had to draw
only what it needed as it needed it , as you could see in video 2
when I gave it to much it shut down and water vapor came out the
exhaust. A valve would have helped but my budget is gone, And its
shoe string streching time for parts.

WTF... i went to hardware store and spent $1 to make coil....he didnt need inverter....ok, motor = not cheap...BUT STILLL!!!


OK....i got around to making my coil....And it does the same thing that everyone else coil do...NADA

Quote from: xbox hacker on July 09, 2008, 08:05:23 PM
OK....i got around to making my coil....And it does the same thing that everyone else coil do...NADA

not surprised dude, you are probably missing the flux capacitor  :D

Quote from: ninjadaniel on July 10, 2008, 12:47:42 AM
not surprised dude, you are probably missing the flux capacitor  :D

Flux capacitor.....I was thinking the same thing yesterday!  ;D

On another note, i have successfully made plasma spark!

At this stage im simply running AC from a 800w generator, through to an iridium plug (seemingly not resistor type) with an IGN coil piggybacked to the one on my car.  using 5 microwave diodes in parallel (2.5a)  to block the hv from coil and 1000v 1a diode to block LV from generator.

Wont work with rectified DC for some reason.   I will discuss this back in the other topic:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5024.680.html

Coil doesn't work..... ;D

Quote from: bumfuzzled on July 09, 2008, 05:11:27 PM
He must have forgotten that early yesterday because that's how I hooked mine up. That's what the 60 watt bulb is for, to keep it from being a dead short on those two windings. Main problem is he doesn't say which way to wind each coil, but I still don't see just this coil doing anything.

Don't be Bumfuzzled!  ;D
Look closely at the diagram..you can kind of see which way they're wound.  The nail is what has me... LOL   ???

Livingwaters08

Group,
If you'll notice, s1 disclosed all of this right after being severely chastised for non disclosure on his tech site Waterfuel1978,  Coincidence?  What do you think?  Disinformation....hmm, we'll see. :-\

Livingwaters08

New file on Waterfuel1978....

I am glad everyone like my drawings... LOL  ;D

Too big to post here....

Pic from the new file on WaterFuel1978...

Quote from: Fast on July 10, 2008, 01:29:11 PM
Pic from the new file on WaterFuel1978...

LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!

"HV in from bottom of plug"...LOL

"Charger - connected to HV out" ...ROFLMAO!!!

or am i missing something here....

Quote from: xbox hacker on July 10, 2008, 01:42:23 PM
LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!

"HV in from bottom of plug"...LOL

"Charger - connected to HV out" ...ROFLMAO!!!

or am i missing something here....

Let me think about this.. The engine case is now high voltage and the ground is the plug tip. Seems it might be a bit of a possible shock hazard holding onto the engine case while running. You just hope the Plasma spark goes to the plug tip and not the person holding the engine. Considering a lot of the cables are on the ground that would make a ground path through a person seem possible. Whoever tries this should be EXTRA careful. Looks a bit SHOCKING.  :o

I think this is my first post here, I could be wrong.

I am sure some of you remember me from Waterfuel1978. Well I was always skeptical of his drawings and lack of evidence. I'm sure some of you remember also that I got banned from his group. Granted I probably went a little overboard but I call a spade a spade. One day he talked down to a newbie and told him that he would never post a picture of his own personal vehicle on there so people could "pick it apart" as he said. That's when I called him a liar and a fraud. Let's look at some facts;
1. Showed up one day and said he had a car (El Camino) running on water.
2. Had some half drawn plans on a yellow piece of paper.
3. When asked, could never explain anything and was always forgetting something. Still the same way.
4. Then he occassionally pops in to find out information that he doesn't have.

I have always said that he has nothing but an idea, that he is making everyone else do the work for him.
Three long years and he finally posts something. Isn't if funny that all of this comes about now? I mean look at what all has happened in the last month or so;

1. A Japanese company posts a video of a car running on nothing but water.
2. It is reported that a company by the name of Ethos is working on a developing Daniel Dingle's <---(spelled different) water car, come to find out that it is bogus. Or we think it is.
3. Now there is a report and interview of Daniel Dingel's <---(spelled right) is going to do it now. He (Dingel) has been forced to show his hand, because of 1 and 2 I think.

I believe he (S1R) was forced to do something or loose his "idea" to some one else too like Mr. Dingel.  Three long years and he posts a picture of a nail wrapped in wire? Man it's so simple, why didn't all of us think of this before. All attempt of humor aside, I have always said that this technology could work but not from what he tells us. I say forget what he does and concentrate on the others here who are actually doing something like Capacitor 70, Xbox hacker, etc.......

Sorry for the rant but I did have to introduce myself to people who don't know me, lol.    Area 51

Hi Everyone,

I am not calling anyone a LIAR, but a few things don't add up.  S1R's write up description and posts on the Yahoo Waterfuel forum said the main coil was uninsulated BARE COPPER WIRE, and two coils using stranded insulated wire. 

I am degreed in Physics, but not an electronics guru by any stretch of the imagination, but even my 6th grade science teacher showed this in his electricity experiment, that electricity follows the path of least resistance.  Whether it is a straight piece of wire or coiled up a billion times, isn't BARE WIRE essentially a DEAD SHORT between windings, and therefore no different than a straight piece of wire (not counting the resistance per foot of copper)?  That was a rhetorical statement... LOL

Then today, S1R posted on the Yahoo Waterfuel forum, "the main coil has black tape on it, as well as "the other black coil."  The original statement, however said the other 2 coils were insulated stranded wire.  Looking at SIR's own picture very closely, shows the black coils are NOT black tape covering BARE WIRES ( I still can't get over the bare wire thing... LOL), but looks like standard factory insulated wire. 

OK, pick a story and go with it, S1R!

Then a nail just thrown in the air space of the coil as opposed to the wire being wound tightly around the nail, also would be a dead short across the bare wire windings as it simply laid on top of the bare wire windings.  Certainly one of those conditions would cause a dead short!

Years ago, I had a bad ignition coil on my car.  The primary showed 1 Ohm resistance which was OK and within the manufacturer's specifications.  The secondary coil however measured only 4K Ohms, but should have been on the order of 10K to 12K ohms, far below manufacturer's specifications.  That meant a some of the secondary windings burned (melted) and created a short between the windings resulting in greatly reduced resistance.

Then we have the best statement of all:  The coils slowed down the electricity enough so that the timing on the Briggs and Straton engine (funny how Briggs and Straton abbreviated is BS) did not have to be changed.

Again, I am not an electronics guru, but doesn't electricity travel at the same speed, regardless as to what it is traveling through?  I do know there are timer/delay circuits one can design and create, but isn't that simply using components that allow for charge/discharge times and other components that vary the time of delivery of the electricity, but doesn't change the actual speed of electricity itself? Sorry, rhetorical again!  LOL

Regardless, these three coils certainly cannot "slow down" the speed of electricity to that extent!

OK, so in summation, we have Bare Copper Wire as a main coil, but then recanted to being covered in black tape, the other black coil also having black tape around it.  But S1R's original description said the 2nd and 3rd coils were insulated stranded wire, but then "the inventor's" own picture clearly showing otherwise (unless he's the best in the world at wrapping black tape around a wire to look exactly like factory made insulation), we have an inverter, but not really, we have 3 coils wound so that they "slow down" electricity enough to the extent where adjusting the timing on a BS engine (I love that) wasn't necessary, etc., etc., etc...

Again, I am not calling anyone a LIAR, but... draw your own conclusions and decide for yourself, but I am literally ROFLMFAO!

Regards,
Geo

Quote from: geovel56 on July 10, 2008, 07:44:57 PM
Hi Everyone,

I am not calling anyone a LIAR, but a few things don't add up.  S1R's write up description and posts on the Yahoo Waterfuel forum said the main coil was uninsulated BARE COPPER WIRE, and two coils using stranded insulated wire. 

I am degreed in Physics, but not an electronics guru by any stretch of the imagination, but even my 6th grade science teacher showed this in his electricity experiment, that electricity follows the path of least resistance.  Whether it is a straight piece of wire or coiled up a billion times, isn't BARE WIRE essentially a DEAD SHORT between windings, and therefore no different than a straight piece of wire (not counting the resistance per foot of copper)?  That was a rhetorical statement... LOL

Then today, S1R posted on the Yahoo Waterfuel forum, "the main coil has black tape on it, as well as "the other black coil."  The original statement, however said the other 2 coils were insulated stranded wire.  Looking at SIR's own picture very closely, shows the black coils are NOT black tape covering BARE WIRES ( I still can't get over the bare wire thing... LOL), but looks like standard factory insulated wire. 

OK, pick a story and go with it, S1R!

Then a nail just thrown in the air space of the coil as opposed to the wire being wound tightly around the nail, also would be a dead short across the bare wire windings as it simply laid on top of the bare wire windings.  Certainly one of those conditions would cause a dead short!

Years ago, I had a bad ignition coil on my car.  The primary showed 1 Ohm resistance which was OK and within the manufacturer's specifications.  The secondary coil however measured only 4K Ohms, but should have been on the order of 10K to 12K ohms, far below manufacturer's specifications.  That meant a some of the secondary windings burned (melted) and created a short between the windings resulting in greatly reduced resistance.

Then we have the best statement of all:  The coils slowed down the electricity enough so that the timing on the Briggs and Straton engine (funny how Briggs and Straton abbreviated is BS) did not have to be changed.

Again, I am not an electronics guru, but doesn't electricity travel at the same speed, regardless as to what it is traveling through?  I do know there are timer/delay circuits one can design and create, but isn't that simply using components that allow for charge/discharge times and other components that vary the time of delivery of the electricity, but doesn't change the actual speed of electricity itself? Sorry, rhetorical again!  LOL

Regardless, these three coils certainly cannot "slow down" the speed of electricity to that extent!

OK, so in summation, we have Bare Copper Wire as a main coil, but then recanted to being covered in black tape, the other black coil also having black tape around it.  But S1R's original description said the 2nd and 3rd coils were insulated stranded wire, but then "the inventor's" own picture clearly showing otherwise (unless he's the best in the world at wrapping black tape around a wire to look exactly like factory made insulation), we have an inverter, but not really, we have 3 coils wound so that they "slow down" electricity enough to the extent where adjusting the timing on a BS engine (I love that) wasn't necessary, etc., etc., etc...

Again, I am not calling anyone a LIAR, but... draw your own conclusions and decide for yourself, but I am literally ROFLMFAO!

Regards,
Geo

I brought those points up last night plus a few more on the yahoo group. Never could really get a straight answer. Plus the multistrand wire adding to the number of turns in the two coils.......... ::)

Quote from: geovel56 on July 10, 2008, 07:44:57 PM
Hi Everyone,
(snip)

Then we have the best statement of all:  The coils slowed down the electricity enough so that the timing on the Briggs and Straton engine (funny how Briggs and Straton abbreviated is BS) did not have to be changed.

Again, I am not an electronics guru, but doesn't electricity travel at the same speed, regardless as to what it is traveling through?  I do know there are timer/delay circuits one can design and create, but isn't that simply using components that allow for charge/discharge times and other components that vary the time of delivery of the electricity, but doesn't change the actual speed of electricity itself? Sorry, rhetorical again!  LOL

Regardless, these three coils certainly cannot "slow down" the speed of electricity to that extent!
t... draw your own conclusions and decide for yourself, but I am literally ROFLMFAO!

Regards,
Geo

Hi Geo,

Not defending anyone, but your statements above are incorrect.  Electrons travel slower through iron then through copper.  Slower through copper wire than silver plated.  Etc.

Personally, all here, would have time better spent working on Ossie and Luc's circuit.  It is producing cold electricity IMHO.  Lots of avenues for experimentation with  those who are more astute as to what is happening.  I am in the middle of a critical build, or I too would be hands on.  If any of you build the circuit given by Luc or Ossie, or Hacker and would like some "interesting" areas of experimentation, PM me.  I will not respond unless you have built it and have it working.

Cheers all,

Bruce

Well I think we need to give up on this S1R project and concentrate on the ones out there that are working. I have been doing a lot of reading and there have been so many different updates to designs that it's hard to keep track of them. Keep up the good work guys.

Area 51

To Bruce and anyone else that cares!  LOL

Not defending anyone, but your statements above are incorrect.  Electrons travel slower through iron then through copper.  Slower through copper wire than silver plated.  Etc.

Personally, all here, would have time better spent working on Ossie and Luc's circuit.  It is producing cold electricity IMHO.  Lots of avenues for experimentation with  those who are more astute as to what is happening.  I am in the middle of a critical build, or I too would be hands on.  If any of you build the circuit given by Luc or Ossie, or Hacker and would like some "interesting" areas of experimentation, PM me.  I will not respond unless you have built it and have it working.

Cheers all,

Bruce

Sorry Bruce, but you're wrong.  Now we're in my ballpark, Physics!  Electrons themselves in different metals move ("wiggle") at different speeds depending on the number of free electrons per unit length and a host of other factors we really don't need to cover without getting to technical, not really related to these plasma circuits and BORING, but the actual speed ("wiggle") of an electron is very slow on the order of .02 mm/sec if I remember correctly.  If you are really interested, PM me and I'll do all the calculations for you to illustrate it.

Electricity on the other hand, contrary to what we were taught as children, isn't really the flow of electrons, because they really don't physically flow or move through a wire.  Electricity is a propagated electromagnetic wave and travels near, but not quite, the speed of light. 

But just for the sake of argument, let's just say different conductors propagate an electromagnetic wave at different speeds, but will still be near the speed of light.  Do you really think S1R's coils could "slow down" a propagated electromagnetic wave so much that it compensates for the difference in timing on a motor rotating at most of 7000 RPM?  That revolutions per minute... that's not even in the same galaxy as approximately 186,000 miles per second, let alone being in the same ballpark!  Nuff said!

Geo

By the way, it is actually almost starting to annoy me as to the plasma arc and water, running a car being called the S1R idea, experiment, theory, project, concept, etc.!  This was done in the early 1950's ('51 or '52 I think) by Adam Crawford of Scotland, and he supposedly did have an automobile running on tap water using a plasma arc. 

Supposedly it was even broadcasted on Scottish television, but was either suppressed, not taken seriously or for whatever reason, was lost for many years.  If anything, this should be called the Adam Crawford Project to Give Credit Where Credit Is Due or simply call it a Plasma Arc Watercar!

This is not a S1R "thingy" especially from a guy who has played the game for 3 years with no proof whatsoever about an El Camino, and only after recent REAL plasma arc circuits created by Luc, Ossie, Capacitor70, myself, XBox, JCBX, and others, did he finally show a video with a Briggs and Straton motor only idling on water.  Did it rev up?  Could it rev up? 

Whatever... Capacitor70 and JCBX have done just as much as S1R and actually a helluva lot more, since they designed the circuits themselves.  My guess Luc, Ossie and I know I will be able to join the ranks of getting a motor to run on tap water very soon.  It's all just a short matter of time before we all start doing it!  Let's keep the FOCUS on the right thing and not be distracted by BS!

Regards,
Geo

Quote from: geovel56 on July 10, 2008, 10:58:09 PM
(Snip)

But just for the sake of argument, let's just say different conductors propagate an electromagnetic wave at different speeds, but will still be near the speed of light.  Do you really think S1R's coils could "slow down" a propagated electromagnetic wave so much that it compensates for the difference in timing on a motor rotating at most of 7000 RPM?  That revolutions per minute... that's not even in the same galaxy as approximately 186,000 miles per second, let alone being in the same ballpark!  Nuff said!

Geo

@Geo

I never said, nor agreed to the S1R information.  I was making a point that Iron CAN delay a pulse, and Silver plated wire WILL allow a faster pulse.  Electricity does not move at the same speed regardless of the conductor.  Sorry.  And you can keep your physics books on the shelf, for I do not think they will have much to say about cold electricity either, considering they do not even acknowledge its existence.  The point I was making is that you said iron would not delay a pulse and I say that I know for a FACT that is not true.   ;) ;D  It is important for other reasons for people to understand this fact.

You would be better off hanging up your physics books for a bit and reading Aspden, or Linderman and then doing some bench work to determine what really is "real" and what is just as "real" but as yet undiscovered.   :o  Or read Gerry Vassilatos describe Tesla's discovery of Radiant electricity and how similar that is to what is taking place in Luc's and Ossies circuit.  But surely you know all of this already, seeing how physics is your specialty.  Tell us, what makes the spark so special?  Why does it get cold or cooler than hotter?  What is the significance of the HV on top of the LV?  Why are the Diodes so important in the setup, not in an electronics way, but because of the physics of cold electricity production?

Hmm...   Not in the physics books?

Good luck,

Bruce 

I think the main problem with the coil replication right now is the MAIN WIRE need to be uninsulated. I know some say that not make sense but its maybe what we are missing, I will try the coil this week end as described, without the insulation on the main wire.

Its maybe why no one are able to reproduce the effect, I imagine that create a new effect different from a insulated wire.

@ Bruce,

For one, I have built a circuit I am testing, how about you?  Second, an uninsulated BARE WIRE in a coil touching another winding is a dead short... period!  It's not going to DELAY anything... are you a complete moron or just partially?  Why don't you actually read what I wrote intead of running your mouth with inane drivel. 

I said there is no way the electricity going through that coil could EVER slow down the propagated electromagnetic wave enough to compensate for not having to change the timing of the motor as stated by S1R.  I also said even if there is a difference between one metal's propagation speed, they are all near the speed of light which isn't even in the same galaxy, let alone the same ballpark of speed differential required as S1R claimed.  Next time be more careful what you say.  It is far better to be silent and be thought of as a fool, than to open your BIG mouth and prove it!

Third, Luc invited me to his forum as one of the pioneers, in fact I believe Ossie came in the day after I did.  I was invinted because he knows I have put together a team to work on this.  We have 2 donor cars, a 1974 Chevy Blazer and a 1998 Ford Windstar.

Our goal is to get the Blazer working first, take all the necessary measurements and collect the pertinent data which would be necessary for a car like the Windstar with its computer and pollution crap, to effectively either create circuits to fool the computer into thinking it is running on gasoline, or to create a plug and play module to replace the computer altogether.  My group has unanimously agreed that everything we do, tests, failures, successes, trials and tribulations will all be reported as they occur on an ongoing basis to keep everyone informed and to keep it all PUBLIC DOMAIN.

Both Luc and Ossie came up with outstanding circuits and we as a group have been trying to enhance them and keep that forum focused on the taks at hand without "crapster" distractions.

Now to explain why the spark plug is cold and not hot and also why the water is not hot... it is almost identical to Peter Graneau's replication of an experiment done in the very early 1900's... 1907 I believe.  What is happening is this is a cold dense fog reaction to a plasma arc.  The fog is generated at the point where the plasma arc comes in contact with water droplets (ionization).  Fog droplets are many times smaller than water droplets.  The cold dense fog droplets and spaced apart from each other.  The smaller the fog droplets are, the more bond energy per unit mass is liberated and more strongly the droplets repel each other. 

The "tearing" of the liquid water molecule is accomplished by overcoming the Ampere tension forces of the water droplet.  This is easily done because the energy required to overcome this force is on the order of a fraction of a joule.  A plasma arc easily accomplishes this.

The energy flow through the fog is ionized, but does NOT heat the water, but rather the energy is stored electrostatically and then the ions recombine after the explosion back into water droplets.  Ionization is an energy absorbing action.  During the explosion, the water molecules do NOT undergo a chemical change, and the energy stored is due to the intermolecular bond energy per unit mass.  The reserve energy is equal to the latent heat energy of evaporation.

This is NOT an instantaneous disassociation of water into its components of hydrogen and oxygen and burned, it is not any type of hydrolysis or steam reaction.  This is NOT a thermal reaction, it is NOT a chemical combustion reaction.

IT IS an electrostatic/electrodynamic mechanical energy phenomenon.  Very similar to Lightening and Thunder in the atmosphere.  Water is a very very peculiar substance with an incredible amount of energy potential.

Since the is no combustion/burning of anything, there is no heat generated.  The temperature of the recombined water droplets after the explosion is very close to the ambient temperature of the water and dense fog prior to the plasma arc hitting it.  The speed at which the fog is exploded initially is at supersonic speeds and a sonic boom is both heard and felt, just like thunder after a big lightning bolt flashes.

This is a cold temperature event, not hot or even warm.  Part of the reason the spark plugs are not hot and even cold, as Ossie has reported from his tests, is because of this phenomenon, as well as the recombination of water afterward causing an evaporation effect along with very high fog/water molecules being propelled cooling it off.  It was also noted in Graneau's experiment that he believes the output energy released was greater than the input.

That's the most basic way I can explain it, although there is quite a bit more to it.  I think this should give you, and everyone else a good understanding of the effect.

Now, don't EVER tell me to hang up my Physics books again!  Just be a man and admit you were wrong in stating the delay in a propagated electromagnetic wave could EVER be slowed down enough to account for the effect S1R is claiming.  How absolutely ridiculous!  It's even more ridiculous than comparing how fast an olympic sprinter runs the 100 meter dash to the speed of a bullet from a gun!   The time differential isn't even close!

But PLEASE, build his coil with the uninsulated BARE WIRE windings touching each other as his picture shows, and tell me there isn't a dead short.  The electricity will NOT go around the coil, but straight across the bare wires in contact with each other, so the coiled wire means nothing.  Better yet, test it with your tongue and report to us what happened!  LMAO

Geo

I built the coil too... i also thought about the dead short on the bare copper, so i separated the copper wire with zip ties pieces...still NADA!!!

Quote from: geovel56 on July 11, 2008, 05:10:30 AM
@ Bruce,

For one, I have built a circuit I am testing, how about you?  Second, an uninsulated BARE WIRE in a coil touching another winding is a dead short... period!  It's not going to DELAY anything... are you a complete moron or just partially?  Why don't you actually read what I wrote intead of running your mouth with inane drivel. 

(SNIP)

Now, don't EVER tell me to hang up my Physics books again!  Just be a man and admit you were wrong in stating the delay in a propagated electromagnetic wave could EVER be slowed down enough to account for the effect S1R is claiming.  How absolutely ridiculous!  It's even more ridiculous than comparing how fast an olympic sprinter runs the 100 meter dash to the speed of a bullet from a gun!   The time differential isn't even close!

But PLEASE, build his coil with the uninsulated BARE WIRE windings touching each other as his picture shows, and tell me there isn't a dead short.  The electricity will NOT go around the coil, but straight across the bare wires in contact with each other, so the coiled wire means nothing.  Better yet, test it with your tongue and report to us what happened!  LMAO

Geo

Hahaha!

Laughable explanations!!  About what I expected.  I see that you have already been corrected on the other thread, and are there pissin' people off with your know it all atitude!  LOL

Your problem is that you are so full of yourself you don't listen.  So, for the THIRD time, I never said an opinion on the coil, other than the fact that everyone's time here WOULD BE BETTER SPENT working on Luc and Ossie's circuit!  (The second time I have said that!) 

You made a statement that iron could not delay a pulse.  I said this is NOT TRUE.  I said NOTHING about the coil, the short, etc.  Get it???????????????????????  Probably not.

You are "one of the pioneers", REALLY??  Please post the link to your original circuit you "pioneered" or to the youtube video of the spark you "PIONEERED".  You little self important man.  Perhaps I will call you AL Gore the second!  LOL  Did you also invent the internet?

Attributing the cooling affect to the plug as due to the fog, laughable. 

You don't listen, and your ego is far larger than your knowledge.  You call me a moron when the truth is you are ignorant and know nothing of what you speak.  You spew out memorized items, and examine things as if you are a lawyer.  I counted 5 people who have already set you straight.  You are a newbie who has contributed dribble.  Just my opinion, you twit! 

Why don't you research some of the names I mentioned, read some of their writings, and come up with a better theory of what is happening at the end of the spark plug!!!!  Oh, wait, why do that, I forgot, you already know everything about everything.  Ha!  Nuff said.  Definitely the BLUE pill for you!  LOL

@ All

Dr.Stiffler already made comment about his thoughts on what is happening at the plug.  That is one person you would all do well to listen to and who knows what he is talking about.  Also, Aaron has made comments that make me think that he too understands cold electricity and has come to perhaps a similar conclusion as I.  Study Tesla's "radiant electricity" to understand more.  Especially some of his early circuits to induce this effect.

I will not comment one way or another on this coil, because I have not built it.  But, I have seen strange coil setup's before.  I would comment further, but some would not listen and take is as some sort of endorsement.

Cheers,

Bruce

Bruce,

If you aren't the most ignorant person I have ever met, you're certainly in the the top 2  Dr. S didn't correct me nor anyone else... they voiced their opinions as to what they thought is happening, and I voiced mine.  So go build your circuit (if you can) and let's see how well you do with it, otherwise, until you actually have tried anything please shut up.  These threads are full of keyboard scientists of which you are obviously one. 

Many of them are good people with ideas to contribute however.  You are not and offer absolutely nothing other than wasted bandwidth.  As for being one of the first invited to Luc's forum, email him and ask him.  I still have the email he personally sent to me with his invitation.

As for reading Tesla and others, S1R's coil, which isn't his either, is very similar (but not the same) to the Tesla Ball Lightening coil setup, only Tesla wasn't a fool and wouldn't make a coil with bare wires whereby the windings were touching each other and even call it a coil, as the net effect woud be a dead short and nothing more than 1 single bare wire. 

I don't need to prove anything to you, as you are totally inconsequential and without any redeeming qualities whatsoever.  So keep posting your inane pointless drivel, and continue monitoring the real work of others and maybe someone may show you a bit of charity and build something for you as you probably don't know which end of a screw driver to use.  Three points higher on your IQ and you'd have the mentality of a bare wire coil!  LMFAO at you!

Bottom line, this forum was created by Xbox (who actually does good REAL work and experimentation), to follow the S1R coil (what a joke) and is therefore now a moot point.  He magically "left something out" again, as he has done repeatedly for 3 years.  You are a waste of human flesh and should be recycled!  I see no reason to post on this thread, as it will go nowhere... just like you!

XBOX, keep up the good work on your own and with the rest of us who actually have done real work.  We are all on the right path and will have it nailed down very soon!

Geo

ok...i am no transformer / coil expert by any means....but i think S1r might have a good idea (even though his coil dont work) Why not make a coil to do what he describes? Jump up the amps on the HV.... Is it possible? I think collectively he should have the brain power to run a engine!  ???

Quote from: geovel56 on July 11, 2008, 03:38:24 PM
Bruce,

If you aren't the most ignorant person I have ever met, you're certainly in the the top 2  Dr. S didn't correct me nor anyone else... they voiced their opinions as to what they thought is happening, and I voiced mine.  So go build your circuit (if you can) and let's see how well you do with it, otherwise, until you actually have tried anything please shut up.  These threads are full of keyboard scientists of which you are obviously one. 

Many of them are good people with ideas to contribute however.  You are not and offer absolutely nothing other than wasted bandwidth.  As for being one of the first invited to Luc's forum, email him and ask him.  I still have the email he personally sent to me with his invitation.

As for reading Tesla and others, S1R's coil, which isn't his either, is very similar (but not the same) to the Tesla Ball Lightening coil setup, only Tesla wasn't a fool and wouldn't make a coil with bare wires whereby the windings were touching each other and even call it a coil, as the net effect woud be a dead short and nothing more than 1 single bare wire. 

I don't need to prove anything to you, as you are totally inconsequential and without any redeeming qualities whatsoever.  So keep posting your inane pointless drivel, and continue monitoring the real work of others and maybe someone may show you a bit of charity and build something for you as you probably don't know which end of a screw driver to use.  Three points higher on your IQ and you'd have the mentality of a bare wire coil!  LMFAO at you!

Bottom line, this forum was created by Xbox (who actually does good REAL work and experimentation), to follow the S1R coil (what a joke) and is therefore now a moot point.  He magically "left something out" again, as he has done repeatedly for 3 years.  You are a waste of human flesh and should be recycled!  I see no reason to post on this thread, as it will go nowhere... just like you!

XBOX, keep up the good work on your own and with the rest of us who actually have done real work.  We are all on the right path and will have it nailed down very soon!

Geo

Hahaha!

You are a total waste of energy and time.  The self importance you exude is like a stench from a swamp.

Again you did not listen, (how is this new?) for I never said anything about Dr. Stiffler having a controversy with you.  I hope you read your physics books with more comprehension than you do others posts.  But it is difficult to hear the clarion call of other, when your mind is filled with your own self importance. 

I do not care if you have a personal email from the ghost of Tesla, you are still a twit and need to crawl back under the rock that you came out from.  A "pioneer"...LOL  Freakin' laughable if not so pitiful. 

I am still waiting to the link to the circuit you "pioneered"?  A video perhaps?   Don't worry, anyone reading your MANY useless arguments in more than just this thread already know you. 

Like I said, you are a "blue pill" person.  Enjoy your self made status here.  Just know, that those of us who read it feel the hot air your blowing.

And should you post other "falsehoods" I will be their to point them out and drop your ego size down a few more notches. 

Someone disagrees with you and you resort to name calling, etc.  Typical of a self important, insecure person.

I think the readers have better comprehension skills of my posts than you do.

@ All
I would not take Geo's word on ANYTHING working or not working.  Trial and error is always the best way to find out for yourself.  If it doesn't work, fine, you will know it, but NOT because some airbag told you.

Suggested Links to read:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5024.msg111751.html#msg111751
AND
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5024.msg111763.html#msg111763
AND
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5024.msg111793.html#msg111793

Cheers All,   :D

Bruce 

I just got banned on the yahoo group. :D How silly, you question the validity of something like that "coil" and they ban you, how childish.

Quote from: bumfuzzled on July 11, 2008, 05:23:42 PM
I just got banned on the yahoo group. :D How silly, you question the validity of something like that "coil" and they ban you, how childish.

;D CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!  ;D

BTW...what did ya say to get the ax??

Quote from: bumfuzzled on July 11, 2008, 05:23:42 PM
I just got banned on the yahoo group. :D How silly, you question the validity of something like that "coil" and they ban you, how childish.

Welcome to the club, Bumfuzzled. :D  So what did you say to get banned? Did you say he talked down to water people and threatened to cut his n_ ts off?

I was just questioning several discepancies I saw between the videos and what he says and the pic of the coil and his description of it. I can only see 3 wires coming out of the can yet there are four in the pic on the coil. Inverter was but wasn't hooked up, clearly it isn't. He says the charger was giving the 12 volts to the coil... I asked how because I see no way it could be, unless those grayish wires coming from the starter diappearing under the motor were going into the back of the can. The "bare" main wire in the coil looks like black insulated wire, he says it's just taped up. The last straw was when he said the multistranded wire added to the number of turns in the coils. One guy was trying to tell me it was common place in transformers so I asked him if he was really trying to tell me that multistrand wire actually adding turns to the coils and I said that was just too funny, that's when I got banned. Who "owns" that group, S1R or somebody else?? Oh yeah, I think I told them if they wanted to actually learn how to make a motor run on water then head over here to overunity.com. This was over the course of a couple days.

I'm just asking legit questions I think, sounds like you can't question anything over there. I mean come on, the guy has been leading people around by the nose for 3 years on this and all he can do is bring out this new coil crap?? He's claimed several times that he isn't in it for the money but now he's getting a patent, he claims he just wants to help poor people yet he keeps everything a secret instead of putting it out there for everybody to work on and perfect, and he won't give straight up good details on anything. I called BS to proven otherwise.

One of my dad's buddies is an electronics genius and he says he's seen guy put stuff out there like this coil and just sit back and laugh at the people trying to figure it out knowing all the time it's just BS. I don't know electronics very well but if for some unknown reason it turns out to be legit I'll eat crow all day long but like I said I'm calling BS until proven otherwise.

bumfuzzled: i agree with you 100%!!

I just think its funny that a guy comes out of no where and says ..."hey i got a car to run on water"....and how his name is the norm. With out one shred of solid proof! Oh by the way, i got my 1991 Acura Integra to run on water...just wanted to let you know, i will post details soon......................................................................................




JUST KIDDING....i got nothing running on water, except a bath!  :D

Quote from: geovel56 on July 11, 2008, 03:38:24 PM
Bruce,

If you aren't the most ignorant person I have ever met, you're certainly in the the top 2  Dr. S didn't correct me nor anyone else... they voiced their opinions as to what they thought is happening, and I voiced mine.  So go build your circuit (if you can) and let's see how well you do with it, otherwise, until you actually have tried anything please shut up.  These threads are full of keyboard scientists of which you are obviously one. 

Many of them are good people with ideas to contribute however.  You are not and offer absolutely nothing other than wasted bandwidth.  As for being one of the first invited to Luc's forum, email him and ask him.  I still have the email he personally sent to me with his invitation.

As for reading Tesla and others, S1R's coil, which isn't his either, is very similar (but not the same) to the Tesla Ball Lightening coil setup, only Tesla wasn't a fool and wouldn't make a coil with bare wires whereby the windings were touching each other and even call it a coil, as the net effect woud be a dead short and nothing more than 1 single bare wire. 

I don't need to prove anything to you, as you are totally inconsequential and without any redeeming qualities whatsoever.  So keep posting your inane pointless drivel, and continue monitoring the real work of others and maybe someone may show you a bit of charity and build something for you as you probably don't know which end of a screw driver to use.  Three points higher on your IQ and you'd have the mentality of a bare wire coil!  LMFAO at you!

Bottom line, this forum was created by Xbox (who actually does good REAL work and experimentation), to follow the S1R coil (what a joke) and is therefore now a moot point.  He magically "left something out" again, as he has done repeatedly for 3 years.  You are a waste of human flesh and should be recycled!  I see no reason to post on this thread, as it will go nowhere... just like you!

XBOX, keep up the good work on your own and with the rest of us who actually have done real work.  We are all on the right path and will have it nailed down very soon!

Geo

This Egomania has got to stop!

Keep the postinngs to on topic discussion, and not this CRAP...... And you have the nerve to call others crapsters.....   What do  you think this 5 year old rant is??

GROW UP!

JEEZ!

Livingwaters08

Quote from: bumfuzzled on July 11, 2008, 10:43:52 PM
I was just questioning several discepancies I saw between the videos and what he says and the pic of the coil and his description of it. I can only see 3 wires coming out of the can yet there are four in the pic on the coil. Inverter was but wasn't hooked up, clearly it isn't. He says the charger was giving the 12 volts to the coil... I asked how because I see no way it could be, unless those grayish wires coming from the starter diappearing under the motor were going into the back of the can. The "bare" main wire in the coil looks like black insulated wire, he says it's just taped up. The last straw was when he said the multistranded wire added to the number of turns in the coils. One guy was trying to tell me it was common place in transformers so I asked him if he was really trying to tell me that multistrand wire actually adding turns to the coils and I said that was just too funny, that's when I got banned. Who "owns" that group, S1R or somebody else?? Oh yeah, I think I told them if they wanted to actually learn how to make a motor run on water then head over here to overunity.com. This was over the course of a couple days.

I'm just asking legit questions I think, sounds like you can't question anything over there. I mean come on, the guy has been leading people around by the nose for 3 years on this and all he can do is bring out this new coil crap?? He's claimed several times that he isn't in it for the money but now he's getting a patent, he claims he just wants to help poor people yet he keeps everything a secret instead of putting it out there for everybody to work on and perfect, and he won't give straight up good details on anything. I called BS to proven otherwise.

One of my dad's buddies is an electronics genius and he says he's seen guy put stuff out there like this coil and just sit back and laugh at the people trying to figure it out knowing all the time it's just BS. I don't know electronics very well but if for some unknown reason it turns out to be legit I'll eat crow all day long but like I said I'm calling BS until proven otherwise.

Well S1R owns and is the only moderator there, so whatever he says goes. He is a con man for sure, when I was banned I was glad. His double talk was giving me a headache. Has anyone got that stupid coil thing to work?

Quote from: livingwaters08 on July 11, 2008, 11:40:24 PM
This Egomania has got to stop!

Keep the postinngs to on topic discussion, and not this CRAP...... And you have the nerve to call others crapsters.....   What do  you think this 5 year old rant is??

GROW UP!

JEEZ!

Livingwaters08

AMEN...but the topic is S1r Coil...and it doent work...LOL!   SOOOO...where does that leave us?
We should be bashing S1r, and NOT fighting amongst ourselves  ;D

Quote from: xbox hacker on July 12, 2008, 12:15:37 AM
AMEN...but the topic is S1r Coil...and it doent work...LOL!   SOOOO...where does that leave us?
We should be bashing S1r, and NOT fighting amongst ourselves  ;D

Can't believe the Egos........Really disgusting!

I would like to test the coil, but not enough details.  He will not even attempt to describe the windings, or setup.  He's sick right now...so the wait is on....for the fools... >:(

Livingwaters08

Quote from: livingwaters08 on July 12, 2008, 01:15:11 AM
Can't believe the Egos........Really disgusting!

I would like to test the coil, but not enough details.  He will not even attempt to describe the windings, or setup.  He's sick right now...so the wait is on....for the fools... >:(

Livingwaters08

Xbox, Hi,

How do you know you got the build correct on the coils with that poor description and image?  Maybe a different arrangement?  Or, do you think it's all BS and a diversion??

Livingwaters08

Why you guys not trying your own design for coil, Its possible with coil but not with s1r9's,
Make bifiller coil something like ground finding coil I don't know much, But I know we can make our own design..... ::)  :o ::)

Hint for plasma ignition.......how to use coil for plasma ?.....

Quote from: livingwaters08 on July 12, 2008, 01:18:45 AM
Xbox, Hi,

How do you know you got the build correct on the coils with that poor description and image?  Maybe a different arrangement?  Or, do you think it's all BS and a diversion??

Livingwaters08

I have tried the coil, with several winding/directions, insulated/non insulated.....all with same results. BUT i think that he has a good idea, a simple way to boost the amps on the HV is just what we need. Personally i am DONE with the guy! I am sick of his double talk,  lack of full disclosure, and waiting for the smallest scraps of information form him! >:(
I put my setup under pressure and saw a rise in pressure when the plasma fired! I think i will stick to what i have done. Also anyone who has had success with some sort of bench plasma in this froum has posted schematics that day, including myself. THATS HOW IT SHOULD BE! A group of peeps working together to a common goal! Not one guy with all the answers and none of the disclosure!

Hi ,

I was checking out S1R's youtube profile, his only subscription is to Capacitor70. This leads me to believe that he is watching for a reason, this must mean that Cap70 is on the right track!!
Just an observation...

HV

Quote from: xbox hacker on July 12, 2008, 11:34:27 AM
I have tried the coil, with several winding/directions, insulated/non insulated.....all with same results. BUT i think that he has a good idea, a simple way to boost the amps on the HV is just what we need. Personally i am DONE with the guy! I am sick of his double talk,  lack of full disclosure, and waiting for the smallest scraps of information form him! >:(
I put my setup under pressure and saw a rise in pressure when the plasma fired! I think i will stick to what i have done. Also anyone who has had success with some sort of bench plasma in this froum has posted schematics that day, including myself. THATS HOW IT SHOULD BE! A group of peeps working together to a common goal! Not one guy with all the answers and none of the disclosure!

Thanks Xbox,
I kinda figured you had tried every conceivable configuration.   I too am sick of S1r...     There is much progress there on the site without him now.  You may be involved in this....so Thanks......
Yes, disclosure immediately.....NOT AFTER 3 YEARS!!!

Livingwaters08

Quote from: happyvalley808 on July 13, 2008, 12:49:40 AM
Hi ,

I was checking out S1R's youtube profile, his only subscription is to Capacitor70. This leads me to believe that he is watching for a reason, this must mean that Cap70 is on the right track!!
Just an observation...

HV

WOW...good point...

Quote from: happyvalley808 on July 13, 2008, 12:49:40 AM
Hi ,

I was checking out S1R's youtube profile, his only subscription is to Capacitor70. This leads me to believe that he is watching for a reason, this must mean that Cap70 is on the right track!!
Just an observation...

HV

It doesn't surprise me.  ::)

Has anyone noticed that the beautiful red and black Camaro convertible that began all this is not a 1978? Google 1978 Camaro and you will see a completely different design. I think the picture is a 1968. Does this hurt credibility?
For what it's worth from me, there is no transformer design book that suggests using stranded wire. The name of the game is to minimize airspace in the winding, which is just the opposite. And I've never heard of enameled stranded wire, so if you use vinyl or teflon insulation (as all the stranded wire I've seen uses) your winding build would be even less favorable (less efficient).
I don't want to criticize anyone for attempting a watercar, I've been in this FE search since 1985, but we need to question anything unclear or suspicious. And as frequently mentioned, the fewer secrets you keep, the longer you are likely to live in this business.
The best of luck to all trying.

Richard

Quote from: ggx9 on July 14, 2008, 12:06:19 AM
Has anyone noticed that the beautiful red and black Camaro convertible that began all this is not a 1978? Google 1978 Camaro and you will see a completely different design. I think the picture is a 1968. Does this hurt credibility?
For what it's worth from me, there is no transformer design book that suggests using stranded wire. The name of the game is to minimize airspace in the winding, which is just the opposite. And I've never heard of enameled stranded wire, so if you use vinyl or teflon insulation (as all the stranded wire I've seen uses) your winding build would be even less favorable (less efficient).
I don't want to criticize anyone for attempting a watercar, I've been in this FE search since 1985, but we need to question anything unclear or suspicious. And as frequently mentioned, the fewer secrets you keep, the longer you are likely to live in this business.
The best of luck to all trying.

Richard

Richard,
The car s1r9a9m9 supposedly runs on water was never a Camaro.  It is/was a 1978 Chevy El-Camino.  Many other sites and discussions list the car as a Camaro.  This is incorrect information.

Livingwaters08

NEw s1r video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucb8cJwIChY

Oh boy he showed how to dismantle a BS coil!!!

xbox, if you already have the parts, could you watch the video and rebuild your s1r coil to his exact specs here since you can see the vid, and let us all know if it truelly is a BS crapblower or if the thing really does "shoot lightning" when you hook it up.

p.s. what im really trying to do is get someone to try this now that we can see the build and disassembly array without me haveing to do it, because my faith in it is pretty close to "0" ;)

atlasman

p.s.s.  what i really cant understand is why would a guy take his time to build something like that and put posts on the net and make video's and post them on his weekend off, if there was "nothing to it".  I mean he prolly has several hours into doing all this.  I know i like to kid around, but i have got much better things to do than just "waste time" ,,,, for WHAT?
so MAYBE there is something to this, so i raise my faith level to "1 or 2" now.

Quote from: atlasman on July 15, 2008, 12:26:25 AM
...
p.s. what im really trying to do is get someone to try this now that we can see the build and disassembly array without me haveing to do it, because my faith in it is pretty close to "0" ;)

atlasman

p.s.s.  what i really cant understand is why would a guy take his time to build something like that and put posts on the net and make video's and post them on his weekend off, if there was "nothing to it".  I mean he prolly has several hours into doing all this.  I know i like to kid around, but i have got much better things to do than just "waste time" ,,,, for WHAT?
so MAYBE there is something to this, so i raise my faith level to "1 or 2" now.

Faith level? Please read my opinion too.

That?s the name of the game in FE/OU: bring more people by any means, wash their brains, make them believe and later they?ll gladly take their time, resources and money, even in small amounts it counts because what?s most importantly is: make one bring many and make hordes growing larger. One nut is enough to bring hundreds?

Many will probably get upset on me because of the above...
What actually one chooses to believe it is not of my concern. I?m just upset because the mud blocks the light, if any out there. Taking an unproved claim and amplifying the noise around it doesn?t help at all. Some would call it manipulation. An ordinary one. How on Earth is that possible?!

Have a nice day,
Tinu

Hello All,

I know that most of you have given up on this coil.  But I saw something interesting in it, and conferenced with some other folks from TPU land, about this coil.

We are going to build the coil and test it.  Not with the plug, etc, but with HV pulses.

The coil is unique in several ways.  I will list some of those, and you can feel free to research each if you care too.  As you know, in TPU land we have been studying coils and their interactions for a very, very long time.

1.  Nail=iron core   (Shows someone has a clue who built the transformer)
2.  coils set up to interact with one another and them selves (90 degree rule)
3.  Uninsulated wire over the iron is wrapped like a "magnetic flux accelerator"  See link below, translated, 1/3 of the way down the page:
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fweb.archive.org%2Fweb%2F20060818094519%2Fhome.arcor.de%2Ffreie.energie%2Fmagnetbeschleuniger%2Fmagnetbeschleuniger.htm&hl=en&ie=UTF8&sl=de&tl=en
4.  The coil has a LV steady bias, with HV pulse on top.  (Think SM, AC riding on DC)
5.  Coil pulsed with extremely HV pulses
6.  Many other things the guys pointed out, too many to list.

BUT having said all of that, it will be bench tested and that will determine what it does.  We will be winding it according to the .pdf, not the drawing by third party's.  We'll post our results, probably by the end of next week.  If it does not work, we will use his principles, change a few things and make it work!

We need a unique HV pulse transformer for our own work, and this is why we will be testing this.  Also, if it helps you guys out, that would be great as well.   ;)

Cheers,

Bruce

You the man bruce!  Apparently your smart enough to do all what you say you will, or you wouldnt have said it all  ;D.

Im looking forward to seeing the final "WORKING" product.

atlasman

Quote from: atlasman on July 15, 2008, 10:32:52 AM
You the man bruce!  Apparently your smart enough to do all what you say you will, or you wouldnt have said it all  ;D.

Im looking forward to seeing the final "WORKING" product.

atlasman

Not me, but "We".  Working = HV transformer

Whether this will work for the needs here or not, I can not speculate.  Again, we are NOT going to be testing this with the ignition coil, plug setup, at all.  We are engrossed in another build.  Our needs just happen to overlap with the needs here, at this time.   So yes, we will do what we can to make this work.  ;)   

Cheers,

Bruce

I cant believe that he wasted time on making a video that shows him taking it apart!!!!! The effort could have been used in showing us EXACTLY how the winding directions go...and various other questions. What an assclown!!!! But for sake of argument i will study the video and try to get the directions right...i got nothing else better to do...i exploded my HV diode  ;D

Pulseshaper ...

I wouldnt take the exact replication of this coil too serious.

You have a problem:

The pulse is too short - energy is consumed too fast - less
output.
So you have to build something which wides up the pulse.
This can be some inductive(coil) or capacitive thing (even mutual
capacity).
The ingredients are quite cheap, nail, wire, metal can.
There is no sharp go/nogo - there should be some experience
after few hours playing around.
I think the metal case/can casing adds a mutual capacity
which couples to the coils - and is of high importance.
The operation without the casing will be different.


rgds.

Quote from: xbox hacker on July 15, 2008, 05:11:53 PM
I cant believe that he wasted time on making a video that shows him taking it apart!!!!! The effort could have been used in showing us EXACTLY how the winding directions go...and various other questions. What an assclown!!!! But for sake of argument i will study the video and try to get the directions right...i got nothing else better to do...i exploded my HV diode  ;D

Xbox

I think that people here  jump to conclusions  much to quickly      and  resort to name calling  much to often .
Could it  be that  Sr1  is doing the best he can ?

As  you  are  watching  the video  for  details about how the  coil is made .
Turn  up  the volume .
Watch  AND listen   as he  pulls on  the  ends  of the last coil .

gary

Hello all,

Based on the video and .pdf ALL of the "drawings" on page 1 of this thread are INCORRECT.  Might be why it doesn't work.  ;)

Hope that helps some.

Cheers all,

Bruce

Plasma generation using coil NO DIODES....
Thanks Shanti....

Circuit is not much fast, but it can work fast with CDI ignition system and proper capacitor and transformer,
I am trying to reduce number of turns of coil to get much better results.....

See Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFupa63jY4M

I am amazed every time I log on,very nice job capacitor70. :)

Quote from: Bruce_TPU on July 15, 2008, 09:38:42 PM
Hello all,

Based on the video and .pdf ALL of the "drawings" on page 1 of this thread are INCORRECT.  Might be why it doesn't work.  ;)

Hope that helps some.

Cheers all,

Bruce

can you enlighten us as to the proper setup?

Quote from: xbox hacker on July 16, 2008, 09:19:44 AM
can you enlighten us as to the proper setup?

For one thing, at 58 seconds in the video, you will notice that the lead of the coil that you all have labeled "third coil" in the drawings on page 1, is wound OVER it's own lead.  Or you could wind the coil and then feed one lead back THROUGH the coil.  This is what I referenced earlier about the "90 degree rule", or you can look up otto's old five turn experiment.  It is a GREAT way to increase voltage. 

So you can change the picture accordingly.  There might be more to change, I'm still looking... ;)

Wife is in surgery, so I will have some time to review some more.  The devil is ALWAYS in the little details. 

Hope that helps,

Bruce

Quote from: Bruce_TPU on July 16, 2008, 09:35:47 AM
For one thing, at 58 seconds in the video, you will notice that the lead of the coil that you all have labeled "third coil" in the drawings on page 1, is wound OVER it's own lead.  Or you could wind the coil and then feed one lead back THROUGH the coil.  This is what I referenced earlier about the "90 degree rule", or you can look up otto's old five turn experiment.  It is a GREAT way to increase voltage. 

So you can change the picture accordingly.  There might be more to change, I'm still looking... ;)

Wife is in surgery, so I will have some time to review some more.  The devil is ALWAYS in the little details. 

Hope that helps,

Bruce

It has been updated!! Do you have a link for otto's stuff?

If you run the coil vid backwards, you can see the coil being built. He prolly did it this way to shut up the naysayers, but it doesn't help, lol.... Nothing ever seems to ;)

I would agree with those here who believe this overly-vocal skepticism is premature, misplaced, and in rather poor taste; and S1R  is simply trying to get this done the best way he knows how. For those who don't agree with his methods: He probably doesn't care what you think... But do a better job on this project than he is; and chances are he would acknowledge it and switch to your superior method. Until then.....

Anyone else notice the nail is "Galvanized"? Should this not give a different result than a simple "iron" core of the same dimensions would?

Watching those two vids of the B&S popping over... Gives me chills every time i see them. It's like standing on the sidelines on a beach at Kittyhawk a hundred years ago.

Quote from: xbox hacker on July 16, 2008, 10:32:07 AM
It has been updated!! Do you have a link for otto's stuff?

I am looking on page 1, your reply #3, and the picture drawing still appears to be the same.

A post I typo'd earlier and said 5 turn test, it was 50 turn test:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1872.msg28062.html#msg28062

That will get you started.  Search user *Otto    50 turn test, and you can read to your heart's content. 

Cheers,

Bruce

Please explain lord of the rings :o.....

Quote from: Bruce_TPU on July 16, 2008, 11:43:19 AM
I am looking on page 1, your reply #3, and the picture drawing still appears to be the same.

A post I typo'd earlier and said 5 turn test, it was 50 turn test:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1872.msg28062.html#msg28062

That will get you started.  Search user *Otto    50 turn test, and you can read to your heart's content. 

Cheers,

Bruce

Here it is again...you might need to hit refresh...or put a "?1" (without quotes) at the end of the address in the address bar in your browser, that will bring up the most recent page of the topic....

Any changes you want to make to the coil setup let me know and i will make them, and post to my site. The front page and now this one will have the latest image, as long as you  refresh the browser.

IMAGE:
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdesignstudioexpress.com%2Fcoil_setup.png&hash=3c337dbb97cc8ca3ce6f3e772a5d55c78aeb430f)

Hello all,

At 2:26 in the video, I count six (6) actual turns of what is labeled as "main coil".  I know the .pdf says five.

Excuse my poor artwork.  ;)

@ Capacitor 70

Lord of the Rings, and all such threads are about Steven Mark's TPU.  Toroidal power unit.  You would have to read up on it.  I am sorry but it would require far too much time too try to explain here.  Very LONG story! 

Cheers,

Bruce

Hi bruce,

nice to meet you, pardon my stupidity but the, i am using an inverter i am not using an inverter is confusing me, in your opinion is an inverter used?? and if so where is the hookup on your diagram, and from what i am understanding he used to attach a ground to the plug but the "newer" examples do not have such grounding, i realize your uses will be different just curious on your opinion

Hi Park34,

Xboxhacker has the coil hookups correct on his last diagram on the last post of page 3.  Correct that is according to the .pdf.

If it were me trying to make this work, I would have the 12volt steady bias exactly where it is called for, and then use what was needed, to pulse the ignition coil with very high voltage on top of that bias.

One other interesting experiment would be to raise the low voltage bias from 12 volts to say 100 to 200 volts, and then fire the ignition coil using whoever's circuit, on top of that.

And then, just for the fun of it, I would put a pickup coil, one near this S1R coil and a second pick up coil near the plug, or put the plug in the center of an aircore toroidal winding and see what I can see.   ;) ;D

And then, if I were really want to feel the RE, I might even wrap another bias around the plug with the toroidal winding, with North facing up....hmmm...but that is just me of course.  I don't know better.  ;)

Cheers all,

Bruce

@Bruce,  I am just curious , but isnt the "bare copper coil" with a nail in it going to be a dead short, and the HV will take the path of least resistance, and possibly not "follow" the path if the actual winding?

BTW..the image in page 3 is the same on page 1....

Ok becomnig tired but doing research and have a few questions / ideas

Found my old lawnmower, cleaned the carb and got it running on gasoline


ok first off about the s1r guy

if you can run an engine on water why mess iwth wood gas which he states on the yahoo forumn

what is causing the air bubbles in the bottle they are holding, if it is the suction why not put a hole in the top, or by not ahving a hole is this providing enough fuel.

why just run a hose in the intake/carb, why not run it thorugh the float bowl, thus atomizing it and i would imagine it would burn better,

ok now onto the research i did

what i am finding he made is a step up transformer, what i am confused on is the fact the it would step up to voltage not the amperage, and what i have beenr eading from you guys you want more amps at the plug.

I cant figure out the point of the winings on the 12 volt wire around the HV coil, since there are more turns of the secondary than primary it would also boost the voltage to that line i would imagine, woulnt not having this coil make it so you dont need the lamp??

Ok becomnig tired but doing research and have a few questions / ideas

Found my old lawnmower, cleaned the carb and got it running on gasoline


ok first off about the s1r guy

if you can run an engine on water why mess iwth wood gas which he states on the yahoo forumn

He says LOTS of things that don't add up

what is causing the air bubbles in the bottle they are holding, if it is the suction why not put a hole in the top, or by not ahving a hole is this providing enough fuel.

The bubbles are from the suction on the bottle. If you put a hole in the top the water would just pour out uncontrollably. What would be better is a needle valve inline with a hole in the bottle, so you can adjust the mixture
why just run a hose in the intake/carb, why not run it thorugh the float bowl, thus atomizing it and i would imagine it would burn better,

Could be that it needs a very rich mixture, basically flooding the engine.

ok now onto the research i did

what i am finding he made is a step up transformer, what i am confused on is the fact the it would step up to voltage not the amperage, and what i have beenr eading from you guys you want more amps at the plug.

I cant figure out the point of the winings on the 12 volt wire around the HV coil, since there are more turns of the secondary than primary it would also boost the voltage to that line i would imagine, woulnt not having this coil make it so you dont need the lamp??

Don't know much about electronics but the way he has the 12v side hooked up by the way he describes it it's basically a dead short to the battery, thus you need some kind of current limiting device. Personally I think this coil is pure BS but a design similar to that might work. Check out the other water for fuel thread, Ben posted an interesting piece on a 3 coil transformer on page 24.

Transformers consist of a core, the primary, and secondary coils.

The core is laminated and made of soft iron.

The transformer equation is:

Vprim = Nprim

Vsec    N sec

I am confused as to why it would be a short, only the HV would be connected to the nail, the other ones have the coating on them, atleast thats how i read it and saw in the video

Quote from: Park34 on July 17, 2008, 12:59:41 AM
I am confused as to why it would be a short, only the HV would be connected to the nail, the other ones have the coating on them, atleast thats how i read it and saw in the video

Look at the drawing again. Coils 2 and 3 are tied together. One side of coils 2 and 3 is hooked to 12v pos, the other side of coils 2 and 3 is hooked to 12 v neg, that would be a dead short without the light bulb.

Also if the main windings are touching the nail it's just going to flow thru the nail instead of thru the turns in the winding. Also, if the windings are touching seems to me it won't flow around the windings, instead it will flow straight thru, easiest path.

QuoteThat will get you started.  Search user *Otto    50 turn test, and you can read to your heart's content.

Well I read the "beginning" of this thread http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=2235.msg29058 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=2235.msg29058).
And if I look at this circuit, I have to say, in my opinion this is nothing else than a current transformer in a little bit strange configuration, as you connect both primary and secondary at one side. Sure a current transformer will give HV spikes if the resistance is high. Actually if you would not connect any load resistance, the voltage would spike very very high. This is also why in practise current transformers are always delivered with a short circuit clamp for safety.
Well as I said didn't read the whole, but can somone in short explain what is the difference between a current transformer and this setup? I don't wanna go too much offtopic, but as s1r used the same layout it's not too offtopic anyway.
What I can understand is, that most of the power measurements people are doing here don't really yield usable results, as it is extremely difficult to measure impulse circuits even with very expensive professional equipment. The best power meters are still the old ones (which work with a heating wire), as they don't fall short of the reactive current problem.

Quote from: bumfuzzled on July 17, 2008, 01:07:38 AM
Also if the main windings are touching the nail it's just going to flow thru the nail instead of thru the turns in the winding. Also, if the windings are touching seems to me it won't flow around the windings, instead it will flow straight thru, easiest path.

Thats what i thought....  :D

I did try a coil setup with the main still insulated, it didnt work either.

so we all basically concluded that the diagrams pictures and video are all bs?? i have to agree on the path of least resistance thing and other debated questions,


just interested in everyones new opinion

Hi all,

does that make sense if the LV 12V goes to the primary winding and the HV goes to the second and third winding ??? , maybe s1r made a mystake !!!

Max ;).

working coil circuit, ferrite core
12:32 transformer ratio

Hi Capacitor70,
many thanks for the last circuit.

But don?t you limit with the red coil the discharge current of the 330 uF cap ?

Also the current pulse is backtransfomed into the green coil and
thus steals energy there...

So is this circuit better than the diodes circuits ?

What is wrong with the diodes circuits ?

But don?t you limit with the red coil the discharge current of the inverter 330 uF cap ?
red coil have only 32 turns it will not limit current. we can go down to 20 turns it works....

Also the current pulse is backtransfomed into the green coil and
capacitor blocks backtransformed pulse, No problem of this pulse to HV coil because it have 50Kohm resistance...
thus steals energy there...

So is this circuit better than the diodes circuits ?
Yes, it is much much better than diodes, cheap and simple... no heating

What is wrong with the diodes circuits ?
Diodes get very hot and energy loss in diode is too much, it melts solder joints of diodes after few minutes of running

Hi capacitor70,
why don?t you just do it this way ?

You might need to raise the limit voltage of the 330 uF cap a bit,
but as the coil together with the 330 uF cap acts as a lowpassfilter,
the fast sparc is not able to charge up the 330 uF cap much more,
so the voltage will not go much higher at the 330 uF cap.

Then when the sparkplug is conductive the few turns of the coil
will not hinder the current much.

And for the diode at the ignition coil it should
be sufficient to use a cheap 1N4007 or faster MR5404 diode
or something simular.

Regards, Stefan.

Quote from: hartiberlin on July 17, 2008, 12:08:08 PM
why don?t you just do it this way ?
Then when the sparkplug is conductive the few turns of the coil
will not hinder the current much.

And for the diode at the ignition coil it should
be sufficient to use a cheap 1N4007 or faster MR5404 diode
or something simular.

This circuit requires very large inductor to stop HV, Main problem with this circuit is HV will not rise, HV flows through the 330uF capacitor. And no plasma spark at all.
If large inductor it blocks current of LV side.

How it works ?
1. Capacitor charge to HV and first spark plug acts as switch, switch triggers at high voltage
level this plasma channel discharges capacitor in the green winding transformer
primary. also LC resonance works here
2. If we directly connect HV to transformer(coil) green winding it will not allow
voltage to rise enough to trigger second spark plug.
3. Once high voltage spike is given at primary, secondary generates High voltage
and it is connected in series with LV so LV+HV(secondary) makes spark and plasma is generates...

How to test ?
1. Connect primary as shown in figure.
2. Connect spark plug to secondary, Do not connect LV.
3. Once you see spark at secondary, its done,
4. Connect LV in series with secondary and spark plug.
5. Due to low number of turns on secondary it will allow LV through spark plug...

Quote from: capacitor70 on July 17, 2008, 12:14:55 PM
This circuit requires very large inductor to stop HV,

Are you sure ?
Did you test it ?

I guess your small ferrite toroidal coil would be okay with about 20 windings..

Quote

Main problem with this circuit is HV will not rise, HV flows through the 330uF capacitor.

HV can not flow through the cap, cause the coil would block it,
so the HV will ignite the arc at the sparkplug...

Quote

And no plasma spark at all.
If large inductor it blocks current of LV side.

It must be tested, how big this inductance and its
ohmical resistance must be to block the High Voltage and
still conduct the low voltage current efficiently.

If you use the right choke as this coil, it will be much easier and
parts saving than your circuit.

But anyway, most important is, that we have either circuit that just works..

The question still is, if such an exploding arc ingnition system is
able to run a car efficiently and how much electrical power
is needed to run a car at what miles per hour speed.

Regards, Stefan.

QuoteHV can not flow through the cap, cause the coil would block it,
so the HV will ignite the arc at the sparkplug...

It is tested already and it dosen't work at all, tried lot of combination but its not working.

QuoteBut anyway, most important is, that we have either circuit that just works..

Yes, I tried my coil circuit with different coils size, core material and turns, it works nearly in all combination....

QuoteThe question still is, if such an exploding arc ingnition system is
able to run a car efficiently and how much electrical power
is needed to run a car at what miles per hour speed.

My observation is it dosen't require more energy because plasma have zero resistance. P=I X I  X R

C70 What if, corrected

Quote from: mrock on July 17, 2008, 01:30:44 PM
c70, What if.

No, difference, more easy to ground...
same is possible on HV side capacitor can be at upper or lower side no matter...
Its all series combination, anything at any place will do...

Quote from: capacitor70 on July 17, 2008, 11:27:56 AM
working coil circuit, ferrite core
12:32 transformer ratio

Hi,

Interesting circuit, simple and looks effective. Have you tried powering an engine with it?  Looking forward to seeing your video of it.

Regards,
Michael Randall

Great work capacitor70

I have a question : did you tested this circuit without sensing coil and 1n4148 diode ? Are you able to test if that circuit works when car coil minus is not grounded all the time but only when closing path to ground by TIP transistor powered by some function generator or square generator.

What I mean is : maybe a closed path from LV side to the car coil secondary while 330uF cap is charging and before spark occur has something to do. If you could isolate minus of car coil from ground and let it connect to ground ONLY when transistor fires it would be a wonderful information if plasma spark is generated in that situation.

I'm planning to replicate this experiment as soon as I collect all parts. How many turns have each of coil on torroidal transformer ?

My engine is in open state for replacement of oil seals and piston rings, trials on engine are not taken yet.
It is much better than diodes, on table setup it gives much much better result than diode.

the two spark plugs in the circuit, what do they do?? for teh circuit

Quote from: capacitor70 on July 17, 2008, 10:22:25 PM
My engine is in open state for replacement of oil seals and piston rings, trials on engine are not taken yet.
It is much better than diodes, on table setup it gives much much better result than diode.

Sorry to hear that your engine is in need of repair. I hope you have it up and running soon.

What size and type/mfg engine are you using? 

Why the need for the 600W lamp in the circuit before the bridge diode?  That lamp load looks like a large user of energy? 600W X 4 cylinder engine= 2400W?

Regards,
Michael Randall

@capacitor70,what size is your ferrite core?I assume it doesnt really matter?...thanks

The 600W light is just a high wattage resistor you can get for cheap.
It's just limiting the current going into the capacitor so you don't trip the circuit breaker charging it.
A 600W limiting resistor means you can never draw more then 600 watts from the source.
Also acts as an indicator; if you have a short it will light up brightly, a resistor would just get hot. 
Just buy a couple of halogen bulb tubes. they sell 500 watt tubes at Canadian Tire.

In my opinion, the 600W lamp will waste the energy by producing waste heat......  ???

Why not try to replace the lamp by using a ac capacitor.......  ;D 35uF 300V Capacitor

I think this will make the circuit more efficient....  :D

imo the lamp is for safety right now, basically once an engine gets running on water alone and idling then we can go into how to eliminate the lamp, or hell maybe just drive with your headlights on :)

@Harti:
This coil before the cap version I also already suggested.
But just using a coil would not work. As you need quite a high inductance that the HV gets blocked, but at the same time quite a low inductance to let flow a lot of amps.
But I already mentioned: It should work if you do it like in Tesla's Patent about rectifying with coils. If you magnetize the coil core up to saturation-edge in one direction, then the HV will see a very high inductance (the coil with the core), but the LV side will only see an air core transformer (core already saturated in this direction).
With "usual" core materials the inductance difference between HV and LV will be on the order of several thousand times...
You can do this saturation also just with a permanent magnet. Another version for the saturation of the core would be like s1r's, where you let flow a lot of amps already through the coil, before the firing. This would even have the additional benefit, that the coil would additionally to the HV blocking also generate an inductive kickback during the firing and deliver also some HV! And if you time it correctly (FET Driver) you wouldn't even need the lamp as current limiter like s1r, and so don't waste any energy.

About the lamp for current limiting. I also see it like that. First generate a working model. Then it would be very easy to alter the circuit so that no energy gets wasted. I would suggest using a current limiting coil. But for tryouts keep it as simple as possible, so that as many people can work at it as possible...

Addition: BTW, if anyone would like to try this. It is very important, that the coil core is really exact at the saturation edge, and not below or above for this to work! I think this is also one of the main reasons, why people were not able to replicate s1r's setup...(You can easily find the saturation edge with an oscilloscope)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5O27hq1NC_U&NR=1


check this out guys, very interesting

Many of you will not like what I have to say but I will say it just the same. ;D Many here have criticized and condemned this inventor because you feel he is ignorant to the "facts". But you are not seeing the whole picture, the only one who seems to be may be Bruce_TPU. Many here know there is an electric current, a voltage potential and magnetic field but there is much more you are not seeing as nobody has considered the qualities and properties of the fields present.
I knew S1R had knowledge of the fields present the moment I read this----

Quote"There is also a nail in the middle of it as to create a magnetic field in which the wave is formed,this is the reason for the different number of windings it causes the field to resonate and collapse but not reform to send power in a reverse direction back to the engines main coil"

Let's start by asking these questions---
-What wave is being "formed" in the magnetic field? and how is it formed?
-What causes the field to resonate and collapse but not reform?
-If the second and third coils have a constant DC current flow how can, and to what extent can the first coil interact with these coils?

I will not give you the answers but I will point you in the right direction ;)
I made this post a while back----

QuoteI thought you might find this interesting
The january 2008 copy of Discover magazine "100 top science stories of 2007", # 37--"How killer electrons form in space".
The highlights------
1)Superstrong pulses in earths magnetic field can drive electrons to near light speed.
2)Magnetic storm triggered by a coronal mass ejection, a plasma spitball shot out by the sun.
3)The influx of energetic particles create waves in our planets magnetic field.
4)The ultralow frequency waves made the planets(earth) magnetic field lines oscillate and accelerate electrons travelling along the field lines to extraordinary high speeds.
5)ULF waves are standing waves that stay in their location and vibrate like a string.

Quote from: allcanadian on July 19, 2008, 02:00:08 PM
Many of you will not like what I have to say but I will say it just the same. ;D Many here have criticized and condemned this inventor because you feel he is ignorant to the "facts". But you are not seeing the whole picture, the only one who seems to be may be Bruce_TPU. Many here know there is an electric current, a voltage potential and magnetic field but there is much more you are not seeing as nobody has considered the qualities and properties of the fields present.
I knew S1R had knowledge of the fields present the moment I read this----

Let's start by asking these questions---
-What wave is being "formed" in the magnetic field? and how is it formed?
-What causes the field to resonate and collapse but not reform?
-If the second and third coils have a constant DC current flow how can, and to what extent can the first coil interact with these coils?

I will not give you the answers but I will point you in the right direction ;)
I made this post a while back----

WOW! We jumped at the end of this investigations. Give me a break I'm not prepared yet. ;-)

My personal thoughts : try to find an answer why Tesla worked so hard to get high frequency currents and why finally he used only alternating form of this high frequnecy currents to develop system of practical lighting ?

I think I found the answer. What about you ?

The  thing I don't like about  the Sr1 coil  is that it needs that light   connected to it

That light   or a big  resistor seems like a really big waste to me .

I like to try to  change   problems into assets .

Has anyone  thought  of    driving  a  small  HHO   generator   in place  of  the  light bulbs?

Even a small amount  of HHO  should    expand  the  effect of the  plasma ..........even if there is not  enough  for it to flash  over  through the  entire  cylinder .


gary

Hi,

Ok a few gripes here,

after building a replica of teh s1r coil i am bummed out. I figured it wouldnt work. I have tester that simulates cylinder pressure adn everything :( the only thing that was interesting is that with it hooked up the way he said the spark is less intense then when its not. what i found from that is that the electricty is going with the fastest way to ground through the secondary and third coild. I insulated the nail and same conditions. in fact if u hold the 12 volt wire one in each hand and ignite the cil you get shocked as if you were holding the spark plug wire. rather interesting how that occurs when the wires arent connected.

1) i watched the first video many times,

first off there are only threee wires i can see coming out of the mystery box. after replicating and seeing his dissasembly video where did the 4th go.

in the first video there is a bare wire bouncing off the brick

and finally i thing the inverter is hooked up, otherwise why have it in both videos.

ok may gripe later :)

A couple questions:

(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg504.imageshack.us%2Fimg504%2F5186%2Fwaterdealoy9.png&hash=6d7d23c9e227a257c8a29a244dfddf4619a0d3ff) (http://imageshack.us)
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg504.imageshack.us%2Fimg504%2F5186%2Fwaterdealoy9.e3ded9fd86.jpg&hash=c3ef692fb1e1f47a3fde0313365c8b78f4e10f38) (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=504&i=waterdealoy9.png)

So is this how this is working???

the 240v is rectified to 240 dc which is sent through the windings, from the winding it is "magneticall" fed to the HV side of things. the current is then stored in the capacitors, upon the firing of the plug in the car the stored energy is released tot eh plug fireing?? and when is the plug on the 240v side fired, I am sorry i am just confused and tired of replicating things that dont work. so i am determined to get the results cap70 is getting

thanks again

LOL.

I think you really didn't get the right turn, how this circuit works... LOL

1.) The LV Cap 330uF  gets charged by the rectified 230VAC. This charges the cap to 320VDC (sqrt(2)*230V).
     Nothing else happens until now.
2.) The pickup coil you se on the right, "sees" when the correct timing point is there and switches the transistor or FET to let current flow through the primary of the ignition coil.
3.) After some time, the pickup coil will not deliver anymore enough voltage, and so the transistor or FET will stop letting the current flow through the primary.
     As the primary coil wants to hold the current flowing through the coil (laymen's term), it will induce a big inductive kickback voltage (several 100 Volts) .
    Now there will be a transfomer action between the secondary and the primary of the ignition coil, and so the secondary will develop a voltage of several ten's of kilovolts.
    This will now charge the 3 small caps (and yes, they are not all needed. You could just take one HV capacitor instead).
    As soon as the capacitors are charged to a voltage high enough, so that the (right) spark gap will fire, we have a resonant HV HF LC-circuit. Now the spark gap , as soon as fired behaves almost like a short circuit. So the capacitors charged to a high voltage are now able to discharge through the primary of the toroid coil.
   Now we will have another transformer action: From the primary of the toroid to the secondary of the toroid. This will yield a HV at the secondary side of the toroid coil.
  This HV is big enough, so that the (left) Spark gap of the spark plug will arc over. And as before: As soon as we now have an arc over the gap, it will behave as almost a short circuit (very low resistance. Actually it rather behaves a bit diode like, but I'm getting offtopic). So now the LV charged 330uF capacitor is also able to discharge itself through the gap. So you will get the strong plasma from the LV discharge, but the HV is needed to "ignite" the gap, so that the LV is able to discharge.

Hope it's clear now... 

@forest

QuoteMy personal thoughts : try to find an answer why Tesla worked so hard to get high frequency currents and why finally he used only alternating form of this high frequnecy currents to develop system of practical lighting ?
I think I found the answer. What about you ?

From some of your previous posts I believe you know more than you are telling us ;D I find my answers from the source---Tesla's work and others.

@All
I have built gotoluc's circuit and can produce extreme dicharges(very loud) at up to 3/8" gap, but there is a problem I knew of before I built the circuit. The weak point is the relay contacts, they must handle large disruptive current flows which erodes and sometimes welds together the contacts. A better way would be to remove the relay from the circuit and utilize the high voltage side to control the low voltage high current flow, meaning no moving parts or diodes or spark gaps.
To be honest, if you asked me how this S1R circuit works two years ago I would tell you it cannot work because the high voltage from the ignition coil has no power in itself. I can discharge it into a coil or resistive lighting filament and nothing happens---the amperage is to low. And then I read a statement from another member that changed my perspective of how things work in nature, "Nature works indirectly". While one quality of field may appear to have no power in and of itself, it can apply force to a complementary field, this field could constitute a field in opposition to the original field in which force is applied.
If we can concieve that we live in a world of opposites, that every thing must have by nature an opposite, then we are missing something which must be a fundamental force in nature. That is the "Diamagnetic Field" which must oppose by nature the only field we know of--- the magnetic field. Diamagnetism is not a magnetic field of opposite polarity, that is SN<----->NS, it is a field which expells all magnetism irregardless of polarity----an impolar field only in appearance as it must have opposition within itself.
Based on experiments I have done towards understanding the diamagnetic field, I believe from what I have seen that S1R's circuit is utilizing this effect.

Quote from: vrand on July 18, 2008, 01:14:43 AM
What size and type/mfg engine are you using? 

Capacitor70 engine info posted at "WaterFuel1978" Fuel egroup,

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Post # 6104, Capacitor70 Design Details, July 8, 2008: 
.....7. I tried my circuit with 4 stroke 125CC bike engine and 2HP engine
it is not giving single fire. But it is giving little better
results with 80CC 4 Stroke engine Kinetic K4, as you seen in
youtube video.


Post #6055 Plasma water bike, July 7, 2008
Hi, this my first post,

Engine which I am using is NOT TWO STROKE,

Its
4 Stroke 80CC, Kinetic K4 bike engine

I am around you for any help, please feel free to PM me on youtube or
overunity, I am not posting details on other site to stay out of
confusion....

You need to increase diodes if you are not getting any plasma blast...

Today I am again working on 2HP low compression engine, because piston
rings of Kinetic K4 Engine are faulty, oil is coming out from kick
(oil seal) and also on spark plug tip creating problem for more tests,
leg is giving pain...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Maybe not getting engine firing on the larger engine (125cc vs 80cc) is due to not enough water fuel in cylinders?

Fuel delivery seems to be the next major issue to resolve in running an engine, after developing the spark plasma system.

Regards,
Michael Randall

Quote from: allcanadian on July 20, 2008, 11:58:46 AM
@forest
From some of your previous posts I believe you know more than you are telling us ;D I find my answers from the source---Tesla's work and others.

@All
I have built gotoluc's circuit and can produce extreme dicharges(very loud) at up to 3/8" gap, but there is a problem I knew of before I built the circuit. The weak point is the relay contacts, they must handle large disruptive current flows which erodes and sometimes welds together the contacts. A better way would be to remove the relay from the circuit and utilize the high voltage side to control the low voltage high current flow, meaning no moving parts or diodes or spark gaps.
To be honest, if you asked me how this S1R circuit works two years ago I would tell you it cannot work because the high voltage from the ignition coil has no power in itself. I can discharge it into a coil or resistive lighting filament and nothing happens---the amperage is to low. And then I read a statement from another member that changed my perspective of how things work in nature, "Nature works indirectly". While one quality of field may appear to have no power in and of itself, it can apply force to a complementary field, this field could constitute a field in opposition to the original field in which force is applied.
If we can concieve that we live in a world of opposites, that every thing must have by nature an opposite, then we are missing something which must be a fundamental force in nature. That is the "Diamagnetic Field" which must oppose by nature the only field we know of--- the magnetic field. Diamagnetism is not a magnetic field of opposite polarity, that is SN<----->NS, it is a field which expells all magnetism irregardless of polarity----an impolar field only in appearance as it must have opposition within itself.
Based on experiments I have done towards understanding the diamagnetic field, I believe from what I have seen that S1R's circuit is utilizing this effect.

@allcanadian
It is very interesting.Hmm,so you states that this is 'diamagnetic field' interacting with Earth magnetic field ? . Seems that you are a step ahead of me :-)

Ok, you have given nice explanation, it's time to describe what I've learned. There is not much of it , because I have no deep electrical knowledge and most I had learned in school I forgot.

Searching among Tesla articles,patents, lectures I cannot find if and when he used DC like high frequency currents. All what is described are AC currents of high frequency. Their usage for artificial illumination is described in details while DC impulses of high frequency are only mentioned. Yet I believe Tesla used them for his wireless transmission.

It is a known fact that he first thought that produces waves/field is sent thought the rarefied  air and maybe it can work to the some extend but not as great as thought the ground.He maybe thought that this field is electrostatic in nature and only later discovered by experiments and notes from others (Stubblefield - Earth currents) that it was a flawed theory.

Wile electromagnetic field is not dependant on any external field someone would speculate about other waves...dependent on a medium to propagate...

One may imagine a  scalar pure magnetic wave in Earth magnetic field.They exists, many types - some of them are described by Alfven
but probably not all. Seems that this information is also supressed.
I can imagine a wave which is propagating in steps - first ahead then return back. If it find another forcing impulse right in the proper time when coming back  it takes additional momentum and goes further and becomes stronger.
Of course it's clear that such a wave cannot be propelled by alternating force nor it is electromagnetic in nature.

Now  someone should explain why it is a rare effect , how to produce it, why we are not observing it. It's beyond my knowledge, I could only speculate that our worst enemy which hides that effects is electromagnetic radiation. Tesla had spoken about it  - his circuits  generated only 10% of electromagnetic radiation 95% of energy was preserved and used.

My advice : Eliminate electromagnetic radiation - you should see a plenty of miracle effects.

I can also speculate (based on my minimal knowledge) that electric part of electromagnetic wave is the key which limits those effects.

Maybe that's why Tesla did a break immediately at the peak of current change ? That produce magnetic kick, but not powering circuit during lowering edge of pulse must have peculiar advantage which I don't understand - maybe this half of the wave is the source of electric compound of electromagnetic wave ?

That's all. Now I hope that you explain me the rest ;-)

@forest

Quote@allcanadian
It is very interesting.Hmm,so you states that this is 'diamagnetic field' interacting with Earth magnetic field ? . Seems that you are a step ahead of me :-)

I never said it was the "Earths" magnetic field that a diamagnetic field could interact with, Any magnetic field ;) as they are opposite conditions.   
               
Magnetic<---neutral center--->Diamagnetic

QuoteMaybe that's why Tesla did a break immediately at the peak of current change ? That produce magnetic kick, but not powering circuit during lowering edge of pulse must have peculiar advantage which I don't understand - maybe this half of the wave is the source of electric compound of electromagnetic wave ?

If you seek understanding of this one point you have just mentioned you will be years ahead of everyone else, the fact that you have acknowleged this is an important piece of the puzzle in itself is a very good sign.
Best Regards

@ Forest

The answer is in learning to produce Longitudinal waves. and then to capture them, turning them back to useful energy.  Radiant Energy, Radiant electricity, was Tesla's Secret.  He saw it, learned to replicate it, and then learned to recapture it to use it.  High voltage pulses are a starting place but there is much more.  This RE interacts with the Ether or comes from the Ether, or everything is Ether and it is just another variant.  A matter of perspective I imagine.

This is off subject, so back to the topic at hand.  Has anyone put a pickup coil near the tip of the spark, and scoped across it?  Has anyone scoped the HV output?  Just wondering.  ;)

Cheers,

Bruce

Quote from: Loner on July 22, 2008, 04:23:56 AM
I'm not used to throwing in information with no testing to back it up, but a lot of info seems to be going
around that is ignoring the "original" S1R coil setup.  (I don't even have proof of it's operation, but ....)

There were Two Coils, not transformer connected (Magnetically, that is) and one had two windings.  The
relays used were (This from others research, but it's in the original PDF) to swap between compressors.

This immeadately implies that the two winding coil had bucking winds, which would "Decrease" the mag
field.  Now there is also the patent, just shown around here a short while back, about a transformer wind
that used "Opposite" direction winds, but they were not wound over each other.

I hope that what I have just stated gets my concept across.  I'm not good at putting this type of understanding
into words.  If the HV is in one wind, the LV in the Buck wind, with the second coil parallel to these other tw,
and now the current flow from the HV spark starts the current flow for LV while canceling the Mag field in a
coil that happens to be at a good spot for RE transmission, while this 2 wind coil is receiving during a mag
field suppresed moment during a current "increase"....

Sorry, but reading what I just wrote shows my explanation skills stink.  In my own thoughts, I always take
into account that the actual energy flow IS NOT just what is in the wires as "Electron" motion, nor is the
"Magnetic" field the major component.  Making USE of this other component is the ideal method.  Also
note.  (Not to further confuse the issue, but)   In other threads (SEC, HHO, etc.) it has been plainly noted
that HHO production is GREATLY enhanced by RE.  If the Spark (Plasma or otherwise) has a large amount
of RE being used, then the Water IS going to be broken down, if you want to accept it or not.  This will NOT
be properly measureable, nor will the looks of the Plasma spark be a lot of help, unless you work with RE and
tesla coils a lot....   If someone had a calibrated RE meter, then OK, but I would love to see one.  It took me
a lot of work to be able to make circuitry just to properly detect RE, and it really has no accuracy.  I can
feel it better than measure it.  (I didn't say that.  Just a joke.)

Either way, I'm fairly sure that RE, HHO, and specific coil construction for energy timing will solve the problem.
I don't mean ignition timing of the engine, but If I got my message across, I'm sure you understand.

Of course, this could be totally wrong.  I've run an engine on HHO, but never on pure water input to the Cyl.

Good luck.  If I ever get these other two items working, I'll be trying to help full force, but I don't understand
this "Energy Conversion" process well enough yet to really be able to pull coil specs out of the air.

Art.

WOW!

Can you describe how to detect RE other then using own skin  ? I would like to step frequency up and use some meter to measure RE intensity.

This thread is about S1r's coil......well here is the best explanation I have seen of it.

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/WaterFuel1978/files/Complete%20S1r%20coil%20instructions/S1r%20MegaTrans%20Transformer/ (http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/WaterFuel1978/files/Complete%20S1r%20coil%20instructions/S1r%20MegaTrans%20Transformer/)

Darren

Hi Forest,

Tesla found that helically wound coils were best to "capture, detect" RE was best.  There are many ways a helical coil can be formed.  In the shape of a toroid or solenoid or other shapes.

Cheers,

Bruce.

Quote from: Bruce_TPU on July 20, 2008, 03:38:50 PM
Has anyone put a pickup coil near the tip of the spark, and scoped across it?  Has anyone scoped the HV output?  Just wondering.  ;)

Yup.

Quote from: c0mster on July 23, 2008, 10:45:53 AM
Yup.

Hi,

Can you post photos of the scope shots?

Is it a single discharge event or a ringing oscillation?

Regards,
Michael Randall

This is several videos showing waters power exploding.  Blows several things apart in earlier videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiRqrQC7DJ8&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiRqrQC7DJ8&feature=related)

Darren

QuoteTesla found that helically wound coils were best to "capture, detect" RE was best.  There are many ways a helical coil can be formed.  In the shape of a toroid or solenoid or other shapes.

From where did you get that?
As far as I understood Tesla, he found, that the non-helical pancake coils were best suited.

DUP

What happen to the details of s1r9a9m9 ? he said he is posting details on 10th August 2008, deletion of files

On yahoo group now he said you have to design your self and get the plasma spark.  :-[

From first post to last post I found only three things
1. Jet sizes.
2. Diodes, coils to generate plasma spark.
3. Inverter and water.

I was also counting the days, but after all the hurry up and wait, i'm not surprised........

@cap70 what do you think about using a GEET system with your plasma spark added to the design??/

Regards,

HV

Quotewhat do you think about using a GEET system with your plasma spark added to the design?

I don't know how to mix water with fuel but I have seen geet system videos showing engine running on gasoline vapors.
Running on gasoline vapors, What happen when back fire comes ?? It will explode like bomb.... ??? ??? ???
If some one help me to build this surely I will make this thing. Combining multiple systems gives much better results.....

@Cap70,

I will send a link in a few minutes for GEET build diagram... it is designed to run on a small motor,lawn mower..

Regards,

HV

@Cap70,

Here it is .....Paul Pantone's "GEET" plasma fuel reformer....I will be building one within the next week or so, I have studied this system, so if I can help let me know.....

Regards,

HV

@Cap70,

Sorry...Here it is...

http://www.teslatech.info/ttstore/articles/geet/geet.htm

Quote from: happyvalley808 on August 12, 2008, 02:12:46 AM
@Cap70,

Sorry...Here it is...

http://www.teslatech.info/ttstore/articles/geet/geet.htm

Hey, here is a more indepth information and has the same build plans.....

http://www.panaceauniversity.org/GEET%20fuel%20procesor.pdf

here are some training videos for geet...

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=qMNCebzgCgg

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=a2KRRgjcJTg

Today I build DC to DC converter Its output voltage can be controlled from 100V to 600V, using TL494 and emergency lamp transformer, I am having problem to
run using 330uF 400V capacitor when I connect this it starts heating transformer and MOSFET (due to low rating of Xmer), it gives good plasma blast with 330uF at first time but after some time it burned transformer primary and TL494, Again I assembled all to see whats the problem keeping bulb in series with circuit to monitor current, and found that after first blast TL494 makes duty cycle to 90% because of this it dosen't work after first blast, But circuit is good for low value capacitor 10uF 400V.

Below circuit is nice just adjust capacitor and resistor to high frequency and make ferrite core transformer, only problem of this circuit is it is unregulated output voltage. No heating of mosfet and xmer. go with this circuit. for real application, I used this circuit on my bike for one day no problem at all. with plasma spark power boost is observed...

Their has been some chatter at waterfuel1978 yahoo group about the ignition point as to the missing link to make the coil work ???

Here is a image to look at...

Quote from: capacitor70 on August 12, 2008, 12:02:42 PM
Today I build DC to DC converter Its output voltage can be controlled from 100V to 600V, using TL494 and emergency lamp transformer, I am having problem to
run using 330uF 400V capacitor when I connect this it starts heating transformer and MOSFET (due to low rating of Xmer), it gives good plasma blast with 330uF at first time but after some time it burned transformer primary and TL494, Again I assembled all to see whats the problem keeping bulb in series with circuit to monitor current, and found that after first blast TL494 makes duty cycle to 90% because of this it dosen't work after first blast, But circuit is good for low value capacitor 10uF 400V.

Below circuit is nice just adjust capacitor and resistor to high frequency and make ferrite core transformer, only problem of this circuit is it is unregulated output voltage. No heating of mosfet and xmer. go with this circuit. for real application, I used this circuit on my bike for one day no problem at all. with plasma spark power boost is observed...

Capacitor70,

All is clear in this circuit except MOV RDN240/20. What's that ? I cannot find it. Are you using  replacement for this ?

From the schematic I guess this RDN240 may be a bidirectional transient diode. Capacitor70, how is that diode rated ?

MOV is metal oxide varistor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varistor). You can find it in a computer PSU. If you don't have one just leave it out.

MOV is metal oxide varistor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varistor). You can find it in a computer PSU. If you don't have one just leave it out.

hello!!! I'm new in the forum first time i post but have been reading it!!! my knowledge at electronics is rely basic nearly nothing... but i have good imagination ;D. i was wondering a different connection for the s1r transformer as in the schematic(http://C:%5CDokumente%20und%20Einstellungen%5CBesucher%5CDesktop%5CS1r%20MegaTran%2001.JPG) instead to connect the lamp wire at the ground connect it at the top of the spark plug so the hv from the coil fires the spark plug creating the bridge for 12v 6 amps or more depends of the limiter used,  ex 60w lamp so like that  hv+12v 6amp crossing the spark gap if the extra amps are the secret, maybe some one tried it already or maybe I'm talking pure bullshit :P any way tanks

I have spent a lots of my time to replicate the S1R coil...

But, I'm always failed...

Try Plasma Water Spark Plug...

You'll love it!!  ;D

S1R9A9M9 theory to be tested

openofficeorg.  to view notes.

 This is more clarification for those still interested in the S1R9A9M9 mower engine conversion of water in carb as was done in 2008. Simple adjustable brass valve was not used for water line in that back yard test. The 2 people just squeezed the tubing for the amount of water flow to be allowed. The water upside down water bottle had loose cap so as air can bubble upward into bottle as the water flowed downward. LOW amount of water must be allowed to be pulled in by the vacuum of engine at carb top. (So engine not fowl the plug) The idling engine ran on electrolysis for hydrogen gas at spark plug in combustion chamber, aided by water vapor pressure same time. The EGR was not applied as per the previous car engines done, but was supposed to be added with adjustable valve. (Air compressed into water is is 78% Nitrogen aids engine efficiency) The 18HP Briggs engine normally used 4000 ohm resistive spark plug. It has LONG REACH threads that screws in to threaded hole. Nathren and 3 technicians in Georgia only found spark plug of 125 ohms - same threads. At that time they did not know about Champion spark plugs that can come apart. They could not make engine run on 5amps dc since 12-14 volts could not push current through a high value resistance. That's why circuit had added a triple S1R9A9M9 magnetic coils assembly that provided several uses the same time. (1) magnetic field over plug BARE WIRE of 5 turns + SPECIAL 21 turns extends spark time to late negative 38 degrees. (2) 5 amps DC average- Peak 10 amps DC current - same amps for field also as going through spark plug . (3) Timing change done different way since Briggs ignition coil Magnetron is not adjustable as on older car engines turning the distributor. (4) The use of Ohms law E = I X R says can't pass 5 amps through 125 ohms with about 14 volts. About 63 volts required that's not normally available. The wire for high voltage passing through the S1R coils was only bare copper wire. The insulated low voltage wire was SPECIAL wrapped over it. There was cross leakage inductance of higher voltage induced in the low side. This is how the current passed through the spark plug at higher pressure voltage. At that time they did not know to remove resistor from top of a long reach Champian plug and replace it with copper segment, and form a zero ohms plug, or RACING spark plug. Farther down the line, the two output wires go together to plug top. Thre is a magnetic fiel present at combustion chamber that aids the process. There is a "return ground" wire present so as low volts does not return through the casting of engine, as the high volts does. See in video the extention cord "Y" that connects as very long wire from under spark plug to side of plastic tub on side of engine. The separate return line was used on all car conversions with the 400w inverter box. Time in micro/milliseconds is saved by this method and less ohms resistance. Engine started on 12 battery, then battery removed. Engine ran on the under flywheel alternator and DC from diode(s) half wave or full wave DC. The quick positive engine demonstrations Videos 1+2, did not have ANY preventive safety measures as the 10KV was across the battery and dangerous for acid explosion only when battery connected to starter motor. After several non tech people got hurt by acid or burnt shorted wires, they changed the written data on web site so as a duplication wouldn't work . The 3rd video on back porch engine test did not have wire of 5 amps connected to spark plug. The other Youtube videos of "The Smack" testing same engine at Nathren's property also did not have 5 amps wire hooked to spark plug top, but to an alternate resistance load as fan motor. On the first running engine video you can see the 3 power wires coming down from the upper cowl into the plastic tub on side of engine. The heat of the 2008 summer, the heat of engine, had melted the spiral black electrical tape glue so as the heavy tub slides downward, exposing the upper power wires. The S1R coils are in the tub along with other parts such as required accessory spark gap . Nathren's, and tech friends invention was shown working , running on water, but he neglected to say it was self running from the 12 +1 MAGNETS under the spinning flywheel . (The Plus red cable from battery was removed.) That Briggs 18HP had "dual" alternators as originally for one side for 5A for riding mower AC headlights, and 4 A for battery charging. They can be put together for higher amps out, up to 16 amps Full Wave DC, idle speed. Web site shut down. Most of the tech data was on the car conversions using one relay of dual 1.5MH coils per cylinder using the 400W DC to 115vAC inverter source power with one diode output. The 15 relays they had were obsolete- non purchasable . That's why the S1R triple coils was the replacement and using 12v DC instead. There are several US Patents on superimposing 2 power sources together. I use a made up Power supply of ISOLATED secondary side from China 20Khz Inverter open board with voltage doubler , so as the 2 grounds do not interfere. You cannot use the common dc to dc step up voltage converters sold, as it uses 2 of same ground.- non isolated. My set up is about 38V DC , because you need protection from High V., and there are voltage drop losses in series, with resistors + series diode bank , leaving about 20 volts to spark plug for the in series current flow.

I refer you to SEE AGAIN, the First 2 only, of the You tube videos of S1R9A9M9. The Briggs 18HP ran on water in carb for the back yard test, after several cars were converted in Georgia since 2005. My project was divided into 6 sections for duplication of Nathren's test. Now stage 5, I built 3 possible power supplies as having ISOLATED grounds. The final outcome of course, was water vapor pressure generated with minuscule amount of Hydrogen gas at late timing of 12HP Briggs engine. This was Nathren's and the 3 technicians invention that related to the successful auto conversions. Back at that time, unusual relays were used per cylinder that are not available. No parts list was issued because of that. The lawn mower engine had a substitute for the 400w Inverter box and set of relays, as a special hand wound triple wires magnetic coil. I assumed since the mower engine was also running, that a relay was also used, as it does fit into the plastic tub on side of the 18HP. There were no protections /safety items during that 2008 test. My circuit has 3 fuses, resistors, and diode bank of 10kv. Send me Email of your list of pertinent questions regarding those 2 videos , and I will explain. I spent very long time studying the web site, small notations, and videos to get it right. You could also look over my previous posts on water fuel sparks, as some of the answers are there. 

The S1R9A9M9 triple coils assembly had several purposes same time. The magnetic field of 10A peak, 5A average DC causes the required time extension of spark so as water has more contact with it. It was not a step up or step-down transformer. The ignition coil on Briggs mower is called a Magnetron as it has an embedded SS trigger switch. Mowers are negative spark with positive ground. That means the spark jumps upward from metal casting to center of plug. An autotransformer with 3 leads requires a ground wire for primary. The spark would never work, as it would bypass plug and go up the side wire. That means S1r coils is just a type of electromagnet only, with end wire hooked to the negative high volts at top of plug. No adjustment of Briggs timing. Therefore, since old car engine could have distributor turned for timing change, Nathren used coils for that purpose. The cars conversions had inductance about 1.5MHenry for high volts line that also contributed to extended timing. So as the Briggs 18HP had RELAY in the plastic tub on side of engine as it dimension-ally fits. The same amps for magnetic field over plug wire also goes THROUGH spark plug. Electrolysis at plug tip electrodes for small Hydrogen is supplemented with water vapor pressure to move piston. The inductors provide also a required magnetic field at plug tips. The cars conversion has 400W 110vAC inverter box and output diode 50% duty cycle on time, while the Briggs alternators AC output to DC with diode or bridge rectification are outputting Pulsing on + off DC power at 50% duty cycle or full wave Bridge DC which has more power. The Briggs engine DUAL ALTERNATORS at low cranking speed has no output. The 12v battery ran circuit until engine was at idle RPM so as alternator would run circuit. Then battery was removed. It has 5-14.5 A capability at idle. The ohms resistance of circuit was in series as about .7-ohm MH coil, and voltage drops of the diodes for the formula I = E / R reduces the 12v battery.  His car and mower engine conversions had 2-3 spark gaps in series. This kept the plugs firing, as not fouled with water. Do you understand all this?? The Champion plug comes apart so as resistor can be removed for zero ohms so as current can pass through spark plug. *****And there is a reason for the S1R coils having bare copper wire for the high volts cable section that bothered many other people over time. It has to do with GETTING cross - leakage inductance, so as there is a higher LOW volts to push the amps to plug, since plug was Champion YC12Yc 125 ohms, not zero ohms. They did not know it could come apart. The superimposed high volts over the 12v DC line allowed the higher push to get through the 125 ohms. Back to Ohms law E = I times R. Is the YouTube S1R9A9M9 Briggs water engine videos making more sense now?? The tech web site is shut down. The S1R coils copper insulated wiring came from chassis #16 gauge wiring of a riding lawn mower. Nathren's son used oscilloscope to get current reading peak of spark plug amps. Average current is about ½  peak amps as on a common hand meter. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Questions?

Hi russwr,

I would like to do experiments on your system, can we work together?

Tom

Today I tried to replicate small test as described in the tech literature of S1R9A9M9 from 2008. The web forum had page regarding a side leakage inductance of wire coil wrappings that would reduce current flow on meter in 60 turns, by inducing a reactance ohms in the low voltage line, from the high voltage line. (increasing ohms) I varied the insulated high volts wire to bare copper wire. I varied the end connections for polarity of the outer coil as matching turns direction. I used a steel bolt core inside plastic tube with the 2 types ignition wire and then the 60 turns insulated wire from car battery. I had added 7kv diodes in series to protect the battery from the 6kv ignition. When repeatedly pushing the ignition single firing button switch, the amp gauge value never changed with all different adjustments. I don't doubt there was a higher volts transfer from one side to the other, since other people who did the test, had held the 2 wires wires and got shocked before.This was assuming the triple coils assembly of 2008, on the mower engine running on water in carburetor, Nathren needed the higher volts due to the spark plug being 125 ohms and can't get 10 amps to go through with just car battery. The superimposed volts over 1000 would push the 10 amps through the spark plug. Because of these negative tests I did, , it is now still possible of the bare ignition wire used to insure proper spark plug firing with the added 10 amps current. They may not of known in 2008 that Champion plugs can have the resistor removed and replaced with copper segment. The larger Briggs engines require LONG REACH Threads type plugs while smaller ones are short reach and have readily available zero ohms spark plugs. He probably , back then, could only get Champion QC12YC as long reach 125ohm instead of 4000ohms regular plug. My current series circuit can have the same resistance values without having to change them to get unchanging 6 amps. All his previous car engines had ran on 6-7 amps. In the original message board article from 2008, 20 amps on meter was reduced to 12 amps to same resistance load when cross firing was done for an experiment The only difference was, I used separate resistor for load to ground, as was done in the original 60turns test, rather than firing the amps through spark plug- AS WAS DONE IN THE S1R9A9M9 2008 You tube videos of running self powered engine of Hydrogen gas and water vapor pressure. My query at this time is whether to use half wave DC or Full wave DC. Both earlier conversions, cars + Briggs 18HP,  had used half wave dc , as there is an off time 50% duty cycle, to make usage of the Back EMF from inductor inside relay greater than 100v.There are voltage drops in series from my beginning 38V DC so as about 20v is left for the spark plug. The 2008 videos had car battery 12v for starting, battery removed, then switched to alternator DC about 12-18v DC. He neglected to say it was self running . Most likely since all earlier car conversions had used certain dual coil relay sealed in vacuum per cylinder, that one was also used with the Brigg 18HP mower engine because it also fits inside the plastic deli tub on side of engine, and INDUCTORS ARE REQUIRED also . See videos again. The AI computer answered my question recently and gave a worked formula to get a back EMF of 100v from inductor with parallel diode to circuit output using 1.5MH inductor coil, 20volts, and 6 amps at fast discharge of 11 milliseconds. Inductor is also in High voltage line. This is ALSO as circuit published that was used in the car engine conversions based on speed of only INDUCTIVE TYPE ignition firing of spark plug. (The tiny electrodes of plugs may require much higher volts for common electrolysis  to get sufficient Hydrogen WITH the accompanied vapor pressure to push pistons.)

 It was called "The 60 Turns Coil Test". I suspect now, that the analog with needle panel current meter would not register the fast ignition impulse as impressed on the adjacent wires. A small, open board type, China $35 battery operated with optional AC supply oscilloscope from E bay DSO 138 as "welded/ completed " ready to use, should be used with one ohm resistor on the GROUND side of the current line returning back to the power source. Ohms law says the volts read over resistor is the actual pulse current since I = E/ 1. The Georgia 3 technicians back about 2008 did have an old oscilloscope for use.The ignition pulse returns through engine casting for ground  and not interfering on the ground side back to the 2nd power source. There would be interference and possible damage,  if scope resistance probe was used on the same side as the high voltage .

                        S1R9A9M9 - AC Inverter Box Not Used On Briggs Mower Engine 2008 ?
There was another small mystery regarding the S1R9A9M9 web forum and You Tube videos on why the 110v AC Inverter box was not used on the last electrical conversion for the Briggs mower engine. All earlier car engines conversions in Georgia had used same inverter box and same set of special relays transferred to each vehicle. Statements were made as it could not be used on the Briggs 18Hp even though it was also a 4 cycle type. It rather bugged me, and I had set aside the notion for later on. After many design types of S1R triple coils that I made over a period of years tinkering, I surmised that the ORIGINAL triple S1r coils that you saw in Internet photos MAY NOT of also been the only one. Many people wrote in and complained about the original bare wire the High volts went through. I just assumed Nathren was too lazy to build it right, even though it still worked. Most people know that engine conversion that uses hydrogen requires LATE timing. All the earlier cars in Georgia had the distributor turned so that late timing was about 34 degrees ATDC. The Briggs lawnmowers have mounted ignition coil called Magnetron that does not move. That's what one of the purposes the magnetic triple S1r wire coils was for - to force extend the spark ON TIME so as start fire at zero on to near -34 degrees shut off. Nathren, in the Georgia shop knew about the necessary timing change , and had built this triple coils in conjunction with an inductor as was also used on the car engines that was  inside the relays, for further time extension.  So here comes the answer!
In the 2008  2 videos, the AC 400watt Inverter Box and Power clips are on the ground not electrically connected, and brown extension cord is seen in background. He did say they were not used for the lawnmower demonstrations of water in carburetor. These things were just left there in the videos after initial FAILED Box tests, and were not removed as they should be before the final You tube filming. The series resistance of spark plug firing of auto engines tested 2005-2013,  had about 1.4 ohms of the 2 coils in the relay per cylinder from approximately 43Volts half wave DC source power. There were voltage drop losses from the several diodes in circuit. The spark plugs were changed to cross reference to near zero ohms spark plugs without the R in code, instead of 6000 ohms. Pulse peak current on garage oscilloscope was 6-7 amps. Now, the 18HP Briggs normally used 4000ohms spark plug. The one chosen as replacement used was long reach QC12YC  as 125 ohms. The "Smack" You Tube follow up videos showed the same engine with this 2nd spark plug. Engine needs what's called long reach threads type, and they, probably in 2008, could not get a zero ohms replacement spark plug. Based on Ohms law formula, I X R = Voltage required, 10 A X 125  ohms is 1250 volts . The 60 cycles inverter output DC after diode is only around 40 volts. Inverter could only produce about .3 amp. (not 10A). I SURMISED that there was another FIRST S1R coils assembly that had ALL insulated triple wires. After the Box test failure ,  a 2ND triple coils was put together to make use of cross leakage induction of High V from BARE COPPER WIIRE into the insulated low voltage side  to raise up superimposed voltage from battery over 12v to be able to get the 10 amps for the Briggs firing of spark plug, for more Hydrogen fuel generated. He said to vary the number of turns for varying magnetic field over the plug wire so as point is reached for smoother running. (At that time period 2008, he may not of known that the Champion brand spark plugs as cross reference can COME APART to remove the high resistor and get a zero ohms racing plug. )
Therefore,.... if proper zero ohms spark plug was used on 18HP engine with in series other parts, and more "highly"  insulated wire cables are on magnetic coils, then the Inverter box of about 40volts DC could actually have been used, instead of the direct 12v car battery in the 2008 demonstrations. The high voltage also probably interfered with the 60 cycles circuit output of inverter and bogged it right down. There was no set of 10kv protection one way series diodes in the circuit.  He said the plastic tub on side of engine also contained other parts besides the triple coils, as accessory spark gap, rectifier diodes, Inductor, for use with the dual alternators on the engine under the flywheel. 12 Magnets ran the charger output underneath flywheel for free power when crankshaft was turning. When battery was completely removed, the engine ran on both alternators output as self sustaining (over unity) performing electrolysis in spark plug chamber. Nathren was in general, a non technical person contrary to the 2 techs working in the shop. The WaterFuel1978 Yahoo Groups web forum of statements, tech questions and answers, was shut down, mostly because a further source to purchase of the exact relays could not be found. That's why a parts list was not given to the public. See again the S1R9A9M9 (2) You Tube videos of lawn mower engine actually running on water to hydrogen + water vapor pressure. It sounds like a water pump!

 Way back in time, Aaron showed a diagram that the microwave diode hooked to only 2 series diodes to ground would give the same effect for spark plasma. This may be an error. His US Patent has a charged capacitor releasing EXISTING left over residual energy through a high voltage diode to make larger spark. His other data talks about high volts pressing against an ON diode that shuts off and reversing back to spark plug. It seems to me that a diode needs a small voltage on it to be in an ON STATE, and a MUCH higher volts just to get the higher spark blast.?
My original assumption was that Nathren (S1R9A9M9) also used one set of dual coils relays on the Briggs MOWER engine, since the sets also worked on the earlier car conversions.Then there is also OHMS law for circuit total resistance required for the 10amps flow through the 125 ohm spark plug. I have his original statements from the website about extra parts included in plastic tub on side of mower engine, with the S1R triple coils and an Inductor from a relay of about 1.5Millihenry. He would have also included accessory spark gap, diodes, and a 400v distributor CONDENSER, --- as a play on words, as he said "no capacitor was used". The charged condenser with diode output would also add EFFECT to the firing spark plug, as long as there was somewhere a ground point in behind diode. His final report was not forthcoming, and we are left to figure it out on our own work benches. Does any one know if Aaron's special circuit would work with coil inductor on voltage, or if it would "hold" a charge like a Cap does? 

The twin conductor extension cord was hooked to exact ground under spark plug as part of the "Y" with other end hooked to plastic tub. The male plug was probably bridged. This was either a LONG required ground return line back to the Batt/ Alternator, or an actual ground wire for the tub circuit. There were 3 wires entering tub with 2 output wires. The High volts and low volts was a joint inside tub. (Yes- the ignition volts was on the battery and alternator as a hazzard) The Briggs engine started with 12v battery, then battery completely disconnected, and circuit then ran on the under flywheel dual alternators with the revolving 12 MAGNETS. See his mower engine again, self running on water in carb. S1R9A9M9 You tube viodeos 1+2.

Nathren's schematic diagram for water powered circuit for Chevy auto 8 cylinders shows certain facing diodes, so that the negative firing 1978 HEI ignition coil would not fire spark plugs. Ignition bypasses plugs and goes to ground through 2 diodes. The old style coil in distributor cap type could have had the 2 primary wires switched around , so,as having POSITIVE high voltage output, which then would fire the plugs. The low voltage power in was halfwave pulsing DC , so as no diodes of a Bridge Rectifier there for a source to ground for a special separate diode discharge.
The 2 technicians in the Georgia work shop did not tell Nathren everything. He even believed the car spark plugs with 10 flowing amps were original copper Autolite type with 6000 ohms resistance. As him being a non technical person, I can see now why a detailed work booklet was not going to be available to the public.