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I had this posted in the JT thread but I thought I would start a new thread for it.

Here are a few video's of the Exiter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXhzeNXr11I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xyg31OSkAIE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usjQ89KmVaA


And Lidmotor also made a selfrunning video of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dz7xmhIb8mk

Here is the circuit.

Sorry for the question, but, what is the load on the capacitor? Just that LED iluminating wirelessly?

Maybe the load is very small, and it's the reason why the capacitor don't discharge, and the volts doesn't go down?

Quote from: Rapadura on March 28, 2010, 09:44:35 PM
Sorry for the question, but, what is the load on the A? Just that LED iluminating wirelessly?

Maybe the load is very small, and it's the reason why the capacitor don't discharge, and the volts doesn't go down?

Yes the load was just the one led.

Slayer:

This is a great circuit you have here.  I am glad you started your topic on this so it does not get lost in the large JT topic.  I hope Dr. Stiffler is aware of the work you, and Lidmotor and Jonnydavro have been doing to simplify this and make it even better.

Very good work you are doing.

Bill

Slayer

Sweet vids!

A self charging circuit that can power a load is amazing no matter how small the load is.  I cant wait to see where this is going.

Keep up the good work  8)

Hi Slayer

Nice to open a dedicated thread here

I think that this " technology" has something very special .

BTW i have tried to install a PNP transistor instead of The NPN.  I simply inverted the plus and minus of my battery and the Scope wave is much smaller as the current also. But when i try to turn on the outer power, with the CFL there is no way to get it. And i can not light the CFL as it does with the NPN.

Fo general info I just repost here my last pix from the Plasma arc i got yesterday and that i posted in the JT topic. I think that this plasma arc is also something remarkable of this exiter.

Regards

Laurent

Quote from: stprue on March 29, 2010, 08:18:00 AM
Slayer

Sweet vids!

A self charging circuit that can power a load is amazing no matter how small the load is.  I cant wait to see where this is going.

Keep up the good work  8)

I think it's amazing too, and I think it's a very good work, and I have to congratulate Slayer.

But the very very small size of the load make me fear that the device is just collecting some radiation from radio waves, etc... I hope not! I hope it's really "free energy" and can be scaled up!!!

Please, keep your good work, Slayer. Maybe you have found the answer to our quest!

@ woopy

Quote from: woopy on March 29, 2010, 09:43:33 AM
here my last pix from the Plasma arc

I think that is the first plasma arc I have seen from a self made coil. Ususally a flyback transformer is required. Nice accomplishment. What was the battery voltage you were using to generate the arc?

Hi Xee2

The voltage is about 7.7 volts and The current is about 70 ma  the transistor is 2N2222a  (NPN)  and the base resistor is 10 kohms (which can be cut off when it runs)

Today i tried to arc  the coil with one lead of a neon and it works  . Notice the small burning spot on the wood under the neon they are the results of other test.   Very interesting

regards

Laurent

Hi woopy,
in the photo which you published in your posting above, one can see the arc between the end of the HV-coil and one leg of the neon, Right?

Quote from: woopy on March 28, 2010, 02:19:36 PM
... i could get a nice very stable 2mm long plasma arc with about 100 ma at 12 volts.

I have a question about the first plasma arc which you describe in your posting in the JT thread (see your quote above) :
Where did this arc occur? Between the end of the HV-coil and and a wire going to earth ground?

Thank you.

Hi Oscar

Yes high voltage coil to one leg of the neon

As you can see 5 post (in the 2 pix) ago the arc appears between the same hig voltage coil and a small clip simply laying on the wooden table. I could get the arc between the coil and a paper pencil also.

The problem i have  with 12 volts is that it happens that some time the arc is no more plasma but seems to be a normal arc (very yellow bright and of short duration) and it burns everything arround and often the amperage goes up and blew the transistor . I blew 3 yesterday. So some time the arc is very stable lila color and seems to be not so hot. And sometime  not so stable and it become  very hot arc.

@all

Where  (how) does this arc come from.

Is this arc remarkable or is it a normal and not so interesting issue with this set up?

If yes what can we do with this arc ? Electrolisis ,   cold fusion ?  heuuheuuhh?

If yes Any idea how to improve this plasma arc without burning the transistor ? More volts , stronger transistor, Double transistor  more resistor on base etc  ..

regards

Laurent

Laurent
I will ask a very good fellow to take a look ![user Darkspeed]
Chet

Thanks Chet

i am simply scotched by all the possibilities of this coil set up.

So every help to better understand what is going on here is welcome

regards and good luck

Laurent

@ woopy

Quote from: woopy on March 30, 2010, 05:29:28 PM
So every help to better understand what is going on here is welcome

You have made a miniature Tesla coil. And it is a very good one. Can you light the neon if you add 6" of wire to each lead of the neon and hold the neon near the coil? If so, how far away can you get with the neon still glowing?

Xee2:

Is it possible to put an Avramenko plug on the neon?  If so, I'll bet it would light a good distance away from the coil.  If that does not work with neons, the an AV plug with an led might really light up a long ways away.

Bill

Hi Xee2

Yes i can light the neon until about 10 centimeter from the coil, and about 40cm  with a led and AV diodes and 6 " antenna.

@all

Now some results with 7.5 volts  and plasma arc. I tried to put a coal electrode (from paper pencil), it works with different lenght. And i could get a burning arc (pix 2) during a long time without blowing the transistor. See the trace on the wood on pix 3.

What seems to happen is that there is first a plasma arc which slowly burn the wood than the charcoal of this burning transform the plasma in a welding arc and as far as it goes it burns the wood further under the coal electrode. During this process the current bounce up and down from 40 to 200 ma  . But it is difficult to say as the current is not stable.

Very interesting stuff

What do you think ?

Laurent

@ woopy

I used this mod of k1zm design with a toroid to get more power without burning out transistor. I am not sure if it will work with your coil but you could try it. The variable resistor is needed to keep transistor from over heating - do not go below 30K. Increase resistance until transistor is no longer getting hot.

This video shows the effect an Earth Ground has when attached to the L1 coil.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JclIu6Q4OU

Quote from: slayer007 on March 31, 2010, 03:19:31 PM
This video shows the effect an Earth Ground has when attached to the L1 coil.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JclIu6Q4OU

WTF??? The LEDs light up when touch the floor???

What is this? Tesla's laboratory glowing in the dark?? Amazing!

Thanks Rapadura.

@ Woopy I try to run my Exiter at 6v to 9V or lower.
But if you want to run it at 12v and the transistors get hot you could just make a bigger L2 coil.
20 to 30 turns should work good for 12v without over heating.

@ All the capacitors in the circuit I posted above are not needed for the light to work.
I was just trying to show a couple places were you can collect power to charge another battery while running the lights.

Thank's Slayer

will try it with more turns on L2

very good video ,  if i understand well you simply connect your main L1 coil to the ground of your garage (house) ? And the distance of power transmission increase strongly  and it seems to be tha  wowww!

Quote from: woopy on March 31, 2010, 06:30:00 PM
Thank's Slayer

will try it with more turns on L2

very good video ,  if i understand well you simply connect your main L1 coil to the ground of your garage (house) ? And the distance of power transmission increase strongly  and it seems to be that you can get the power from everything which is connected to the same ground    wowww!

Did you test it in another room of your house with the same ground connection ?

regards

Laurent

Quote from: woopy on March 31, 2010, 06:30:00 PM
Thank's A

will try it with more turns on L2

very good video ,  if i understand well you simply connect your main L1 A to the ground of your garage (house) ? And the distance of power transmission increase strongly  and it seems to be tha  wowww!

Yes, It's connected to a small copper pipe just outside my garage.
I also added a 1m pot along with the 1k resistor for finer tunning.

Jeanna's Power Plant running the Exiter.
It puts out around 1.6v @ 1 to 2 mA.
It's enought to run the exiter right off the Earth Battery.

I didn't water it yet the ground was still a little damp.It's just durt dug from my backyard.

Here is a video of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF9WUU6fLnU

EDIT. I added a wireless tower by the exiter it puts out around 15.5v from the AV plug on the second tower.

Hi Slayer

I decided today to try your idea to increase the number of turns on L2. But as i am totally undisciplined i finally made a bifilar Tesla pancake coil.  With o.4 mm copper wire.  The DC resistance is 1.2 ohm and the inductance -0.023 mh  (notice the minus and i try all set up on my inductance meter). ?

Than i try to trigger my main coil with this config and got no results  no resonance.

So i reinstalled my original single  pancake coil  and i put the Tesla pancake on the top of the coil as a pickup coil.

And here the scope trace  ( probe on one single lead of the coil)    very nice AC trace of pick to pick 100 volts on a 1.2 volts battery.

So with this new coil i did  not resolve the heating of the Transistor (i blew another one this morning with some other test)  but i got a new intersting result .

We are not ready to go sleeping with this technology. Every day a new discovery . Fascinating !

good night

Laurent

Quote from: woopy on April 01, 2010, 04:46:14 PM
Hi Slayer

I decided today to try your idea to increase the number of turns on L2. But as i am totally undisciplined i finally made a bifilar Tesla pancake A.  With o.4 mm copper wire.  The DC resistance is 1.2 ohm and the inductance -0.023 mh  (notice the minus and i try all set up on my inductance meter). ?

Than i try to trigger my main coil with this config and got no results  no resonance.

So i reinstalled my original single  pancake coil  and i put the Tesla pancake on the top of the coil as a pickup coil.

And here the scope trace  ( probe on one single lead of the coil)    very nice AC trace of pick to pick 100 volts on a 1.2 volts battery.

So with this new coil i did  not resolve the heating of the Transistor (i blew another one this morning with some other test)  but i got a new intersting result .

We are not ready to go sleeping with this technology. Every day a new discovery . Fascinating !

good night

Laurent

You will have better results with the plastic coated wire for the pancake coil.

In this video I have two coils with the same specs as the L1 coil.
The top of each coil is connected to one side of a rectifier that goes to a capacitor.
The bottom of each coil has a small antenna.

Then I have my Exiter connected to the capacitor.
And it will dimly light the leds I have on a board.
But even with the Exiter disconnected the led's will still light off the coil or any part of the circuit.

Some how the two coils are resonating and exiting the environment around them.

Here is the video.
http://www.youtube.com/user/GBluer

Slayer:

This is amazing!  Where do you think the energy is coming from?  Random RF signals possibly?  What if you use an earth ground to one or both coils...do the leds get brighter?

Excellent work!

Bill

Thanks Bill.

Yes I think it's picking up RF from somewhere.I don't know were there is nothing around(Kinda out in the country).
I thought it might be comming from the AC in the Garage.But even when the power is turned off from the garage it works the same.
This is close to 70' from the house so it's not from the AC.

Even when the exiter was disconnected the two coils keep working and exiting the environment.
And slowly charge the capacitor.

The voltage read across the rectifier is 1.3v.

@ slayer007

Is this your circuit? This is a dipole antenna. But, a very high field voltage would be required to get the needed 0.7 volts across the diodes to allow current to flow through them. I could see this happening with your exciter generating a field, but I would not think the ambient field would have a high enough voltage when the exciter is off.

Quote from: xee2 on April 05, 2010, 02:03:08 AM
@ slayer007

Is this your A? This is a dipole antenna. But, a very high field voltage would be required to get the needed 0.7 volts across the diodes to allow current to flow through them. I could see this happening with your exciter generating a field, but I would not think the ambient field would have a high enough voltage when the exciter is off.

Yes that is the basic circuit.
It will work by it's self with the Exiter disconnected.Last night I disconnected the Exiter and let it run all night I want to see how far it will charge the capacitor.And see if it will quite running after the capacitor reaches the voltage across the rectifier.(Thats around 1.3v)

@ slayer007

It would seem that you have made a big crystal set radio. This is another version you might want to try. Also, germanium diodes might work better than silicon since they have lower junction voltage.

@ slayer007

In a loop antenna, the coils should be parallel (rather than as in my drawing) and spaced far apart for best gain.

The RF radiation emanates from the Cosmos. Cosmic RF radiation generated by distant galaxies in outer space.

@ slayer007

Hello Slayer, I watched your YouTube channel and try to understand your Exiter circuit. Great stuff!

Please excuse the silly questions, it is propably obvious, but I can not figure it out by myself.

Would your Exiter circuit work when I dispense with the diodes (4 x D1, 2 x D2) and the two capacitors, as indicated in the attached drawing?

I gather that the intention is to charge the two capacitors (or batteries) while doing all the other things with your big coil (like the transmission of energy to various tubes and LEDs)?

I want to build a very simple initial version of your circuit (without the diodes and the capacitors), if this is possible?

I guess it is essential to use the two transistors (2N2222 and MPSA06) as indicated in your schematics?

You explained the winding of the coils (L1 = big coil and L2 = pancake coil) quite nicely, I think I got that.

Do the additional towers just sit there, or are they connected to something? I see a length of wire coming out on the top?

I see also a length of wire coming out on top of L1, is this essential?

Sorry, a lot of questions from an inexperienced want to be experimenter.


Greetings, Conrad

Yes the circuit will work fine without the capacitors and the extra diodes.

It will also work with just one of the two transistors eather one.I was just getting good results with the two but it will work with just one or two MPSA06's or viseversa.

The bottom of the towers I might have connected to a small antenna some times,But thats about it.
I just left a little extra wire at the top and bottom so I can connect the coil to what ever.You don't need to have that much at the top.

Excellent Slayer

But i am something confused about your transistor on the exiter . Because you said that you use a PNP transistor in your last set up.
But on your shematic it is a parallel of 2 NPN transistors.
Please can you give us the actual shematic, as it would be usefull to replicate your exact test.


At the present i use the 2N2222 A (single ) and get also very good results.  So i used the Tesla pancake bifilar (that  i made for the exiter )    as a receiver and i could get about 1 meter transmission. on 6 volts at about 200 ma.

The exiter has about 1 meter antenna at the end of the L1 coil  and the Pancake is about 1 meter away and can light dimly a led (AV arrangement) on a single wire the other wire of the coil is free (hanging in the air). On the pix you can see the distance between the antenna (red wire on the left) and the Pancake coil on the rigt with hanging lit led

Than i made a small loop detector to improve the probe detection of the scope and i could test the power of the antenna all along  (see scope trace at about 60 cm from the beginning of antenna)

Will soon try the 2 receivers coils and than cut off the exiter

Yep   very promising !

Thanks

Laurent

This is just a follow up to last nights video.
Lidmotor said the scope probe would affect the circuit.
He was right even when the power was turned off the probe was getting a small amout of AC from the AC ground.
In this video I have the probe and meter disconnected.The blue led's are still very dimly lighting, but not as near as bright as when the probe was connected.
So I guess there is nothing special here.

Here is the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STbFYWITmLk

Quote from: woopy on April 05, 2010, 05:11:07 PM
Excellent A

But i am something confused about your transistor on the exiter . Because you said that you use a PNP transistor in your last set up.
But on your shematic it is a parallel of 2 NPN transistors.
Please can you give us the actual shematic, as it would be usefull to replicate your exact test.


At the present i use the 2N2222 A (single ) and get also very good results.  So i used the Tesla pancake bifilar (that  i made for the exiter )    as a receiver and i could get about 1 meter transmission. on 6 volts at about 200 ma.

The exiter has about 1 meter antenna at the end of the L1 coil  and the Pancake is about 1 meter away and can light dimly a led (AV arrangement) on a single wire the other wire of the coil is free (hanging in the air). On the pix you can see the distance between the antenna (red wire on the left) and the Pancake coil on the rigt with hanging lit led

Than i made a small loop detector to improve the probe detection of the scope and i could test the power of the antenna all along  (see scope trace at about 60 cm from the beginning of antenna)

Will soon try the 2 receivers coils and than cut off the exiter

Yep   very promising !

Thanks

Laurent

Yes I still like to use MPSA06 transistors I was just using the old PNP for a test I was doing.

Hi This is my first post.
I've been lurking around for a few months.
Take a look at this guy -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-DjFZfTITk

There's 6 videos that make up the lecture, in which he runs a demo of an exciter.  He states that he has worked out and tested the theory of what's going on. Fits exactly with what's being seen in the Lidmotor and Gbluer videos.

Found it on a youtube channel - Miguelgot3
He's got 700+ uploads so I seached 'Tesla' and got a result.

The lecture seems to fill in so many gaps on lots of threads on this forum.

I've also posted a video on my youtube channel that might fill in a few gaps for some other threads.  Spread it around to those who might find it of use. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fNSoAsHz0I

Bit by bit the puzzle forms!

@all

Have a look at this video !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9bdGuXu060&feature=channel

@Slayer.Hi.I thought your last vid was great and the fact that the leds are still lighting dimly may suggest there is something going on as something is lighting them and if its not cap bounce then you may have something.
You say that the oscilloscope was contributing too if not causing the effect.Will the oscilloscope lead that you had connected to your circuit light an led on an av plug?
@Morepoweregor.Hi.Thankyou so much for posting those Eric Dollard vids.I watched them all and will watch them again no doubt and found them fascinating and the fact that he has experimented with  tesla's longitudinal waves and transmitted them through the ground great distances is a reason for us all to continue our experiments and one day we may be free from the grid.
Your plasma globe vid was great too.The spark gap is the key to extracting the energy required to light a filament bulb and i think if we can introduce spark gaps into our experiments with slayers exciter, we may see more great things happening.
@Woopy.I increased my voltage to 12v and am getting a great plasma arc like you and going through a fair amount of transistors but they are not blowing whilst its running,its when you switch it off and they catch a spike so i wil try reducing the voltage before i turn off.Is this what you are finding?Jonny

Hi Jonny

Haven't done any follow up experiments yet, busy reading and thinking.

My focus is the linkage between this groups exciter experiments, the Kapanadze thread and resonance.

I want to gain a better understanding of resonance and how at seems to magnify. Tesla coil builders are using resonance to great effect, problem is the tuning to harness this effect seems to be a black art requiring years of work.

I've starting to aproach reasonace from an angle that I don't think anyone's looked at yet across this forum.  Induction Heating!

It's looks the same as a tesla coil  - a tank circuit primary, with a secondry that's just a lump or metal that gets hot.  The advantage that I find is that I can hook up multimeters and a scope (which is a bit of a non starter with a Tesla coil) and see what going on inside the primary.  I've done a few simple experiments where I get an LC parallel circuit into resonance and the effect is clear to see.  The input current drops right off and the current circulating between the coil and cap goes up.  You can also see the waveform across the cap change from a mess to a neat sinewave.  To me this aproach is simplifying the learning curve.

This guy's website got my attention:
http://www.richieburnett.co.uk/indheat.html

He's got SPICE model plots at resonance that show input energy of almost  zero, with huge amounts of energy circulating between the cap and coil.

After watching the videos, seeing Slayer lighting LEDs from the floor and hearing about Teslas field of lights, I think what your working on is a done deal.

Lot's more stuff to post, but got to get some proper work done now!

I'm based on Somerset by the way!

Egor.

 

@Lidmotor, Good evening!

I just saw your latest video on Youtube about the Slayer Exciter hooked up to a Joule Thief (also about plastic coated steel twist tie wire):

http://www.youtube.com/user/Lidmotor#p/u/0/F7v4vTrQFYk

Attached is a drawing depicting the circuit as I understood it. Did I get it right?

What I want to do, is a Joule Thief type Circuit that drives a CFL with about 1200 Volt at a frequency of 100 - 200 KHz.

I could build a Joule Thief with a 42 mm Toroid that achieves 1200 Volt on a secondary (standard Joule Thief circuit with a 170 turn secondary on the toroid) and drives a CFL nicely, but it swings with about 6 KHz and people with good hearing are annoyed by a piercing sound coming from the circuit (also pets do not like it). Therefore I think one should go to an air coil, which can swing with a higher frequency.

Your idea of hooking up a Slayer Exciter to a Joule Thief caught my attention in this context.

One could run a Joule Thief with a rather high frequency by using only a few bifilar turns on a little toroid (and by avoiding the many turn secondary which would lower the frequency very much). I guess that 200 KHz are possible. The high Voltage would then be achieved on the tower coil which is driven by the pan cake coil taking the place of the LED in parallel to the collector - emitter of the transistor (as you show in your video).

Could one get 1200 Volt out of your hook up? And how high was the frequency of your hook up?

The Slayer Exciter circuit (as published by Slayer007 on 2-18-2010) could of course be used to drive a CFL with very high frequency, but I am a bit worried about the electromagnetic radiation coming of the big tower coil (and on many other points in the circuit). Therefore your hook up of a Slayer Exciter type tower coil with a pancake primary in a basic Joule Thief looks very good to me. The frequency will not be in the range of Megahertz (prone to radiating), but still much higher than sound waves (e.g. 200 KHz).

Could one avoid a lot of electromagnetic radiation by connecting the CFL to the tower coil as I depicted in the drawing?

@Slayer007, Good Evening too!

May be you have some ideas! I see from your latest videos on YouTube that you are very interested in radiating power to other tower coils in the room. I would like a modification of your Slayer Exciter, so that very little is radiated away and that all the power from the big tower coil goes to one CFL? Having a rather big tower coil next to a CFL does not bother me, it would be a nice design feature catching the attention of onlookers.

Greetings, Conrad

Conrad:

I have used a neo magnet, a very strong neo, on my toroids to raise the freq.  it does raise it quite a bit although I can't measure just how much on my scope.

I did it originally to raise the freq. high enough so you can't hear the squeal any more and this does do that.  I talk about it it in my video of my Lidmotor/Jeanna light replication.

This probably will not get it up to the freq. you are looking for but it is a good trick to raise it some unknown amount.

Bill

Hi Bill (Pirate88179) !

Thank you for the hint, I just tried it. A big Neodym Magnet stopped the oscillation cold. Smaller ones lifted the frequency from about 6 KHZ to about 8 KHz.

So there is some effect, I have to experiment further. It will depend very much on the right magnetic strength. I can place something between the toroid and the strong magnet to adjust its influence (a piece of wood or plastic keeping the magnet at a certain distance).

Most people older than 50 will not hear anything beyond 10 KHz, but children and pets do up to 30 KHz. Dogs hear up to 40 KHz.

Greetings, Conrad

Hi Conrad,

You surely know the big (or not so big) magnet brings the core towards saturation, this means lowering the original permeability hence increasing frequency.  This can go till the conditions for maintaing oscillations in your oscillator circuit remain valid (till feedback remains sufficient etc).

Gyula

I agree.  I use a very powerful neo on mine but, I am using a high permeability ferrite toroid that is 3 3/8" in diameter.  I am sure my strong magnet would overwhelm one of my smaller toroids.

I have also added several small neos to the transformer on my Fuji JT circuits and my lights get noticeably brighter.

Bill

Here is just a short video showing the Exiter running off a 12v battery.
It works off as high as 18v but much past 12v it's still easy to fry the transistors.

In the video I start it at the lowest setting then turn it up to 3/4 power.

Here is the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU_HeCr8BTM

Nice Job Slayer, that tower is putting out all kinds of high frequency waves. 

You're getting lots of power at good distance....it is still amazing to me that this exciter circuit can turn anything into a battery so to speak.

How did your self running tests come out?

Quote from: stprue on May 24, 2010, 05:11:57 PM
Nice Job Slayer, that tower is A out all kinds of high frequency waves. 

You're getting lots of power at good distance....it is still amazing to me that this exciter circuit can turn anything into a battery so to speak.

How did your self running tests come out?

Thanks Stprue

Not so good, It was kinda hit and miss.
Some times it would self run and some times I just couldn't get it to self run.

When it was self running I couldn't really get any work out of it anyway.

I haven't totally given up on it yet just needed a little brake from it.

Don't worry Slayer, I feel the same lately, no inspiration, no building, just watching and waiting to get the drive back.

@ jadaro2600

Here my findings so far concerning sine waves on a secondary L3 in a Joule Thief type circuit:

- use an air core with a diameter between 100 and 300 mm (I know this is big, but you then do not need that many turns for L3, may be 150 to 400 turns); 0.2 or 0.3 mm diameter enamelled wire; thinner wire is very difficult to handle and thicker wire needs a lot of space and more turns

- start with winding the secondary L3 on the cardboard or plastic tube; I put a strip of double sided sticky tape on the tube to hold the windings while I wind (with a primitive hand winding station I built)

- on one end of the secondary L3 you wind L1 + L2 over L3; either bifilar or center tapped (I put a piece of paper on L3 to protect it when winding L1 + L2 over it)

- use very few turns for L1 + L3 (may be 6 to 9)

- use an adjustable base resitore (0 to 10 K with a safety 100 Ohm) and set it to 2 to 4 K Ohm, the sine wave will have several hundred Kilo Hertz (I have seen 700 KHz, easily 400 KHz)

- the voltage of the sine wave on L3 will be rather low (may be 60 to 120 Volt); when you decrease the base resistor, the voltage over L3 will go up, the frequency will go down rapidly and the sine wave becomes more like spikes ringing down

- when you see sine waves on L3 the consumed power will be rather low (may be 40 to 100 mA) because the base resistor will be high (2 to 4 KOhm)

- what I said is for a 1 to 2 Volt power supply, if you use higher supply voltages (e.g. 6 Volt to 12 Volt) frequency will go down, voltage on L3 goes up fast, the sine wave becomes spikes and transistor and base resistor overheat within seconds


An experimenter calling himself slayer007 has an interesting circuit which I will explore soon (when I get bored with my air cores on the basic Joule Thief circuit):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU_HeCr8BTM (Slayer explains his circuit at the beginning of the video, therefore it is a video as I like them, because I can understand what Slayer is doing in the video)

But I see that you also follow the thread http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8977.45 GBluer (Slayer) Exiter.

What I would like is a modification of the latest Slayer circuit to avoid radiation. I want 1500 Volt to go by two wires into a CFL or neon with high frequency (may be 200 to 500 KHz, or even Mega Hertz). The wireless transmission of power is interesting but not yet for the average home.

From what I have seen, the basic Joule Thief circuit is very good for a 1 Volt power supply (a single or two AAA or AA batteries in series) but becomes critical (concerning overheating of the components) when using a power supply with higher voltage (4 Volt and higher, definitely with 12 Volt). Slayer has found I nice way with his adjustable capacitor to make a 12 to 18 Volt power supply possible. May be one can adapt this idea to the basic Joule Thief circuit.

A 12 Volt Battery charged by a solar panel with a high frequency Joule Thief type circuit lighting a CFL brightly could be useful. Some sort of emergency lamp or free energy lamp. The 12 Volt battery and the air core coil would be rather big, but for a stationary lamp that would not matter much.

I know, one can turn 12 Volt into 110 or 220 Volt with a commercially available converter, but that converter wastes power and is no fun (and it also "screeches" or "sings").

Greetings, Conrad

Sorry, my latest post should have gone into the Joule Thief thread, but may be it also fits in this thread.

@ Slayer007

I hope you keep working on your circuit because it seems to be a promissing way forward from the basic Joule Thief circuit. The big advantage is its high frequency (to avoid screeching), but for practical applications I fear a bit its "radiation" (although this radiation of energy is of course a very interesting thing).

I understand that you are interested in the "over unity aspects", but I also see potential for a very effective way of using "electricity" to light up gas discharge lamps (FLs, CFLs and Neons). Lots of light with little input is already something (even if it is not over unity).

Greetings, Conrad

This is good hmmmmmm  ;D

hi all

back to work

here some more testing

1-  as Slayer 007 said some time ago, i  tried to wound the L2 coil with a  single copper wire with plastic insulation of 0.8 mm in pancake organisaation.

2-  i could get the plasma arc at the end of the free L1 coil easily with about 7.5 volts.

3 so i decided to try the Avramenko electrolisis

4 and it works nicely


so my question 

how is it possible to get electrolisis from thi set up ?

second    the N2222 get very hot    how can we do to scale up this arrangement to test more ppowerfull electrolisis?

all the best to you

Laurent

@ Laurent (woopy)

I think that one should use the transistor (Darlington Pair) TIP142 which has a high DC current gain (hFE from 500 to 1000). I ordered some because I want to try it for several Joule Thief Variants. The advantage should be a low base current in spite of a strong current through collector - emitter, which keeps the temperature of the transistor down (although one might need a heat sink any way when driving the circuit with higher voltages like you do).

In your circuit (with the transistor 2N2222) I would use a 20 pF capacitor instead of the 200 pF. This should reduce the current over collector - emitter of the 2N2222 and such lower its temperature. But it might stop the electrolysis (because the output of the tower coil will also be reduced). Slayer showed this "power reduction or increase" in his latest video with a 12 Volt power supply by trimming the capacitor.


@ Slayer

I know you recommend the 2N2222 in combination with the MPSA06. Did you ever try a Darlington Pair (a transistor which is internally a Darlington Pair like the TIP142 or the BD681) ?

What happens (your latest circuit, trim capacitor, 1 M resistor) if I would connect a CFL or FL over the tower coil? (On pole of the lamp is connected by wire to the top end of the tower coil and the second pole of the lamp is connected by wire to the beginning of the tower coil which is also the base of the transistors.)

Would this brighten the lamp (in comparison to holding it near the coil without any wire connection as you often do in your videos)?

Would this reduce the radiation?

Would this stop the circuit swinging?

In your videos you sometimes touch the wire on the top end of the tower coil with a lamp or the LEDs, but you never make a connection to the beginning of the tower coil?

Greetings, Conrad

Hi Conrad

Thanks for response and proposal

I tried a BD 677 darlington, it works but in a specific voltage. And it get also hot. Will do more test this weekend

Good luck

Laurent

@ Woopy

Thanks for posting your results.
You may want to try running your setup with just the MPSA06 transistors.With 12v or more the 2N2222 are still easy to burn out.
Also a Variable capacitor will help with the current intake and tuning along with tuning the L2 coil to the right spot.

@  Conrad

I have tried quite a few transistors including a darlington Pair.So far the best transistor for this circuit is the MPSA06 with the 2N2222 the second best.

I only left the 2N2222 transistor in the circuit diagram because if your using a smaller coil it is hard to get this to start without the 2N2222 transistor.
But people using bigger coils with 12v or more should just use one or two MPSA06 transistors in this circuit.

This video is to show how you can use two diodes and one LED for a indicator light for your exiter.
It helps with tunning and hepls protect the A.

Dr Stiffler uses it in his SEC 18 series and it also works very good with this circuit.


In the video the 1M resistor is disconnected.It is no longer needed if using over 1v.
And I also have one coil connected to the negative battery post.

Here is the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naN-cLCgDyY

For this test I added a variable capacitor across the L2 coil.

It's running off a 1.5v AA battery lighting 40 led's and a 14w FL.

Remember this the lower the voltage you use with this circuit the less current you draw.

Here is the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JHP5w9cuQ4

@ slayer007

Am I correct to assume that the variable capacitor across the L2 coil caused
a higher output by L2 (more bright LEDs and brighter FL)
in comparison to the same circuit (with the same 1.5v AA battery) without the variable capacitor?

Is the effect "wireless transmission of power" more confined to the vicinity of L2 once the variable capacitor is connected across L2?

I assume the circuit also functions without an L3 coil? Does the power consumption of the circuit increase once the L3 coil is connected (in comparison to when it is not connected)?

Your circuit has advanced quite a bit. I particularly like the indicator LED (above the two diodes).

Greetings, Conrad

Quote from: slayer007 on July 23, 2010, 12:07:36 PM
For this test I added a variable capacitor across the L2 coil.

It's running off a 1.5v AA battery lighting 40 led's and a 14w FL.

Remember this the lower the voltage you use with this circuit the less current you draw.

Here is the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JHP5w9cuQ4

Nice vid slayer, I have been working with these exciter circuits lately and have managed to get mine down to 1.2 or 1.3 volts at about 2-3ma.  I have all kinds of different setups that work lower or higher but that set up is interesting.  I am also using a 1" high by maybe 4.5" dia copper ring.  The base of transistor is hooked to a small wire I wrapped around the ring.  Pulses range from 4v-56v with this set up.  Oh I forgot to mention, not sure if you tried this but AV plugs hooked to lets say 35v@1000uf caps charge up easily.  Keep up the good work.

@Conrad

Yes, The variable capacitor across the L2 coil helps with tuning and gives higher output.

With the L3 coil connected it will draw more current.
But it's not that big of a difference.

It will light the led's and Fl anywhere from 25mA to 65mA.

I haven't compaired the wireless effect with and without the capacitor yet,But I will.


@ Stprue

Thank you.

In this video I just show the difference with and without the capacitor accross the L2 coil.
When using this with higher voltage the capacitor doesn't have much effect.
But on lower voltage it sure does.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqd5_njs_BM

Sorry im in a bad mood because i dont have no help
i dont understand any of these circuits
but i built the best earth battery
overlimit all the time i built what I beleive
you guys are referring to as saturation
by combining the coils into a car coil
contains the frequency to i guess saturate
if thats what the term is refering to
its essentialy morays germanium
cells then it transmits 120 volts but
i dont know how to wire these juel theif
circuits every diagram is
two confusinf i find theres lije 100
designs and why are they stuck on
led the only difference between led and incandecent
is the spiral frequency from 1 to a coil
maybee some one can bridge the Gap for me with a simple email
explaining how a basic jouel theif circuit
is wired so I can figure it out and
fix it so we can use the wireless energy
on everything does anyone know how to
charge a capacitor if the fucking wireless
transmision shocks the fuck out me at 120
volts why or how do i store it well im fucking lost confused
maybee i need to go get a Job at radio shack to fucking learn
stupid ass diodes and shit just to power a fucking house
wireless

This video is for the people that don't have the cell phone chargers.

You can use two or more batteries in series charging two or more batteries in parallel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OgaNYn4SRc


The cell phone charger can be replaced with different type batteries.
The voltage on the source has to be higher that the charge voltage.
Just run the source batteries in series and the charge batteries in parallel.

Hi!

I hope this thread hasnt died, and that there are a few people here interested in the simple slayer exciter.  Ive been playing with one for the last few months, and today ive managed to light a 40W filament wirelessly, just held in my hand.  Input is 15V @ 1A.  I dont get any kind of shock.  Is this cos of the skin effect?  Heres the video:

First bulb in video (and for last 30 seconds) is 40W. I'm just holding it in my hands. It lights properly (but not fully).  White light and plasma.

Second bulb is 30W - it doesnt light properly, but acts like one of those plasma globes you can buy.  No white light



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXPtZtLtPYE

The exciter is a powerful beast.  Whats going on with it?  My tesla coil never let me light incandescent bulbs in my hand....only CFLs and neons.

wow FH that's pretty impressive!

I have been messing with my own version for some time and there seems to be lots of possibilities with this circuit. 

Keep up the good work

;D

Quote from: stprue on October 16, 2010, 06:10:34 PM
wow FH that's pretty impressive!

I have been messing with my own version for some time and there seems to be lots of possibilities with this circuit. 

Keep up the good work

;D

Thanks!

I reckon my impressive output is because of the transistor i use - its a MOSFET (IRF 830).  I dont see anyone else using it, and its far more powerful than my TIP 32C (bipolar junction) transistor.

There is a really good thread for exciter enthusiasts called ''joule thief, sec exciter and variants'' on energetic forum started by Jonny Davro.  Come and join some fellow exciter builders.   :)  The exciter threads here seem to be a little dead.

@flathunter,

Very nice build. I have some few questions about you circuit.
Can you fill in the blanks in this drawing when you get the time?

Thanks,
Groundloop.

Thanks for the interest groundloop - Check out the third incandescent in the following video!!!!  Bright as can be!!!  And destroyed during experiment. and all 4 types work

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxqux9xVCcw

Thanks for the great diagram - here are some of the answers.

Coil dimensions

33.5 cm high, 11cm diametre PVC pipe - Typical drainage pipe for toilet. Its NOT the coil i bought in a tesla coil kit - i made this one myself so its hardly professional  Took me 3 hours!!!
Primary coil 3mm diametre (as a pancake) 2 turns at the bottom of the secondary
Secondary about 1mm, maybe 0.9mm (really not sure about this...just used an old ruler). (not really sure about number...but coil stretches 28.5cm so i think about 280 turns. I was wrong earlier in my statement of 450 turns - sorry)

i think the resistor is one watt.

IRF 830 on BIG heatsink i ripped out an old monitor which is back to back with smaller heatsink.  (Gets very very hot)

Power supply is from an old printer which states 16V at 320ma but runs at 15V @1A on this device.  Nonetheless, I can get the same effect with a small Lead Acid 12V battery (5.6Ahrs).  Incandescent are no problem with this baby  ;)  Its great fun! 

@flathunter,

Thank you for your fast replay to my questions.
I did not have the IRF830 right now so I'm trying
a setup with a high voltage NPN transistor instead.
Attached is my build so far. My coil is on a plastic
tube, 50mm diameter. I think I counted 250 turns.

Will report back when I fire up this circuit.

Groundloop.

Hi GroundLoop

I also have a 50mm diametre coil but i couldnt get it to work at all - i hope you have better luck with it.  If you fancy winding your own use a fat toilet pipe (11cm diametre) and i think youll get much better results - another guy called ''jiffycoil'' on energetic forum gets fantastic results and he also has a fat secondary PVC pipe.

I'm starting to think that again ive made a mistake with the secondary -  its thinner than 1mm - its about 0.6mm diametre and there are perhaps 400 turns, perhaps a bit more.... Sorry for so many mistakes!!!

@flathunter,

Thank you for the clarification.

I will try out my coil first because that was what I have right now.
I can always wind a new 110mm diameter coil later on.
My primary goal right now is to get the circuit to run without "blowing" the transistor. :-)

BTW: The second PCB is for 100 ultra bright LEDs.

Groundloop.

@flathunter,

The circuit is up and running now. I'm currently lighting up three
ultra bright warm white LEDs. The input usage (with a 10K base resistor)
is 19,1 Volt @ 0,05 Ampere. The RF output of this circuit is all over
the lower HF band. Main frequency is at 1,68MHz. See image.

Groundloop.

@ groundloop

What kind of distance are you getting?

@stprue,

I do not have any top capacitor on the coil yet. I also do not have any second
coil with top capacitor. So I can't test for wireless effects right now.
The output to the LEDs is from two 1N4148 diodes connected directly
to the top of the coil.

Groundloop.

I can walk downstairs in my house and still get an LED to light on an AV plug.  Any conductor in the house will provide the input.  The field is huge, and the house electrified.

@flathunter,

I have to keep the power down because of where I live. I can't
risk blowing up my neighbors flat screen TVs etc. :-)
I know the effect you are talking about and I have seen your videos.
The oscillator you made is a very nice and a smart circuit.
The resonant frequency is set by the coil going to
the base of the transistor and the circuit seems to run very well
without further tuning. It also have few parts and is easy to build.

Groundloop.

Quote from: Groundloop on October 17, 2010, 01:32:50 PM
@flathunter,

I have to keep the power down because of where I live. I can't
risk blowing up my neighbors flat screen TVs etc. :-)
I know the effect you are talking about and I have seen your videos.
The oscillator you made is a very nice and a smart circuit.
The resonant frequency is set by the coil going to
the base of the transistor and the circuit seems to run very well
without further tuning. It also have few parts and is easy to build.

Groundloop.

Hi GLoop!

Im glad there are people here on OU like yourself who r interested in these oscillators - they are great fun, and seem to be able to provide a remarkable amount of light on very little power - sure, no doubt the thing needs tinkering with, but thats where we come in right?  ;)

Thanks for the simple explanation - im no expert with physics, but id like to try to understand some of the theory behind the oscillator.  The transistor acts as a switch right?  I was surprised i didnt have to tune mine when i set it up....is this because of what you're saying with the coil going to the base???  Can you go a little further with his idea??  teach me??  I wanna know more!

Ive noticed these filaments act differently by my oscillator - most of the new ones i bought turn into instant plasma balls (with minimal white light also).  Ive got 3 which dont act so poor.  1 spot lamp which is really bright but has a life expectancy of about 2 mins  (last 2 in video - identical).  1 40 W filament (osram, small) (first on video) which seems to work the best as it last longer - 2 parts burn with bright white light, and 2 remain calm but have a plasma colour.

The last one which is different is a 75W.....last one on my old video rom previous post.

@flathunter,

This is the first time I have seen and built this type of oscillator. And I can't say
that I'm an expert on radio frequency and Tesla "effect" oscillators. But I did build
another small setup to test my theory about the base drive coil. So I did wind a
small iron powder toroid with a collector coil of two turns and a base coil of 60
turns (circuit drawing and image of oscillator attached). The oscillator did run.
It could not be driven by a high input voltage but did run well on 2,5 Volt. When
the oscillator had started then I could turn down the input voltage to 0,6 volt
and the ampere draw was only 0,01 ampere. It stopped to oscillate when the
voltage was turned up to approximately 6 volt due to over powering the transistor
with DC bias via the bias resistor. The "Tesla" effect you are seeing is probably
because you are running the base coil open ended and every time the transistor
switch off (no current going via the base emitter) then the coil become open ended
in both ends and the voltage is free to swing to maximum high voltage level. The
frequency of the oscillator is set by the base coil (as I see it) because the transistor
base will be switched on and off by this coil. Every coil has a capacitor part (because
the windings is close together) and a coil part. This makes the coil a tank circuit (L/C).
The frequency is f = 1/2*PI*SQRT(L*C) where L is in Henry's and C is in Farads.
I have also attached a circuit drawing of a small oscillator if people want to do
experiments with small power.

Groundloop.

Fantastic work GL and I would say they are much more then fun but fun none-the-less   ;D

This particular circuit needs much more research but only a few people are looking into it.....very unfortunate!

Anyways I'm glad you're interests have been peaked.

If you want I can re-post my basic circuit of the SEC for the 10th time so more people can test easily!  (I have done this in the  past with no enthusiasm)......

let me know   ;D

At all
tanks to revive  this thread here :)

Thanks Groundloop for your circuit and to have interest in this oscillator. i will give it a try anyway and as soon as possible.

But GL please take the time to wind a big coil (as per Gbluer (Slayer 007)  info ) because i am sure that you will be of atmost help to all of us .

Here my basic circuit (pix 1 ) and now Flathunder  and i  (and other on a other forum ) are working also with mosfet with  interesting result but i think we don't really (or at all) understand what is going on there. ???

And i am sure that very great improvement wil take place very soon. And probably with you,

Always ready to test every thing in my possibility

and good luck at all

Laurent

ooups

i fergot the pix 1

here it is

@stprue,

Yes please post your circuit drawing here. Always good to have several circuit options
available. I agree that we need to research this circuit more. It is a simple circuit to build
with a part count of 3, transistor, bias resistor and coils. My next goal is to wind a 110mm
coil to see some "Tesla" sparks going. I need to find a good hexfet like the IRF830 or IRF840
to drive that coil. I think I have the IRFPG50 hexfet and I think I will try that. But as I said,
I need to keep the output as low as possible due to close neighbors. If you ramp this
circuit up to several Watts then the near field will be very powerful and I can only speculate
what the field will do with nearby electronics. When Tesla was around there was no flat screen TVs. :-)

Groundloop.

@woopy,

Thank you for the circuit drawing. Our posts crossed each other in cyberspace. I have planned
to build a big coil as described by @flathunter.

Groundloop.

Hi Groundloop

My actual favorite fet is the BUZ 11 as it can support very high current and works very well with my coil setup.

and here the video and some description of the coils dimensions  (for a good plasma jet ) if it can help

good night at all

Laurent

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eT8tnPvfGo

Quote from: woopy on October 18, 2010, 07:02:36 PM
Hi Groundloop

My actual favorite fet is the BUZ 11 as it can support very high current and works very well with my coil setup.

and here the video and some description of the coils dimensions  (for a good plasma jet ) if it can help

good night at all

Laurent

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eT8tnPvfGo

Hi Woopy and GLoop - Thanks for explanations and diagrams!!!!  They are great - please leave your sec here too, sptrue

I made this video to show the difference between different bulbs.  Look carefully at how the first bulb and last 2 bulbs compare with the middle bulbs.  They produce far more white light. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF75AO0qfSc

You are completely right Woopy - those spots dont last more than a few mins.  The white light seems to crack the glass (that sound you hear - same as me!), but they are the brightest - maybe they need a little tampering with??  any ideas...???  The first bulb i think is also worthy of attention as its very different to the rest of the plasma globes....it has plasma, but not much....mostly power.....

Good luck guys!!!

This is the Exciter Circuit I will have been using...sorry for the repost!

Directions on how to replicate:

4KV Trigger coil
Top leg=output connect to pan
Bottom front/right=collector
Bottom back/right=not used
Bottom back/left= + rail

Transistor
Emmiter= - rail
Base=Pan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PugsoCe2pqU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTI-bfXFGzk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gcoti7FrVK0&feature=related

@stprue,

Thank you for posting your circuit information.

Are you using just a short wire at the base of the transistor with no
bias resistor at all?

Did I get this circuit drawing correct?

Groundloop.

Yes that looks right, the base goes to something metal and you control the ma's draw by moving the the piece of metal the base is hooked to closer or further away from the output of the trigger coil i.e. the top leg in the air.  You can find different setups that will enable you to not need to touch the output/base to start the circuit.  This circuit is a very simple dravo version.

Instead of coils use metal mass....like a bar of AL or in my case two rings of copper one for base out for output.

@stprue,

Thank you for the clarification. So the base needs only a little feedback
from the field of the trigger transformer to run. So if I put a very high
value resistor from base to the plus rail then the oscillation will start
every time by itself as long as there is a pick up antenna on the base.

Thanks,
Groundloop.

wonderful stuff guys! 5*

Here is the latest circuit I have been using and video.

After five days of running and switching the batteries around.The voltage in the batteries was still close to the starting voltage.
The voltage in the 6v battery was 6.25 from 6.13.

The 6v battery was a little to much but a AA battery charges very good.

The output from the L1 coil is also a little brighter with lower voltage across the capacitor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzWdiO_aN2Y

Sweet vid slayer!  Looks like a promising set-up you have.

Quote from: Groundloop on October 20, 2010, 05:44:30 PM
@stprue,

Thank you for the clarification. So the base needs only a little feedback
from the field of the trigger transformer to run. So if I put a very high
value resistor from base to the plus rail then the oscillation will start
every time by itself as long as there is a pick up antenna on the base.

Thanks,
Groundloop.

Give it a try with the resister GL!!!  I haven't you may get some great results.  I never thought to use a resister because you can control the draw by moving the base metal away or closer to the output metal.

Lets see what happens
;D

@stprue,

I did my first try to make a circuit with a xenon transformer today, but failed.
I did blow up the transistor due to a soldering error. :-) Will try again tomorrow.

Groundloop.

@groundloop

The pickup wire on your schematic. Is it winded round the trigger transformer?

Jesus

@nievesoliveras,

Yes.

2 turns on the outside of the transformer. One end of the wire is not connected.

Groundloop.

Thank you @groundloop!

Jesus

In this video I replaced the 50v 22000 uf capacitor with a 2.5v 20 F capacitor.And I have the Exciter running off a rechargeable AA battery.
Lighting the 39 led's and a small 6w FL tube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmbpYMIXOi8

Has anyone done scope current/voltage measurements of the output in these devices yet?  Just wanted to do a quick poll to see if there's any material before I do it myself.

In this video I replaced the indicator led with a second L2 coil and tower.
The second tower or L1 coil is not connected to anything.

I also have two other coils running to an s type gate.With an AV plug running back to a cap thats running right back to the source battery.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DN-qOzAJEs

My last test I let the Exciter run for 15 hours before turning it off.
The voltage in the battery was 1.1v after running 15 hours and lighting the 39 led's.

For this test I removed the Sgate and added an AV plug to the bottom of the second tower.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-MerBB2XCs

What is discussed here is not new. It is related to "Avramenko's single wire transmission", known for years.
Whatever conductor, like the terminal of a neon or any piece of metal, possesses its own capacity, i.e it constitutes a capacitor, the other "plate" being the surrounding (ground, earth...)
Even though this capacity is very weak (<< 1pF), it loops the circuit, and the voltage can be enough to light a neon, or to charge a capacitor using a double diode configuration. Current is consumed. I have also experimented this way and measured such a current which obeys conventional Kirchoff's laws.
You can check it by connecting a piece of metal to the free neon terminal. It will change the intensity of light by increasing the parasitic capacity, thus the current.

This setup is typically a trap for newbies in electronics because they model it by neglecting what makes it to function!
"Light, and no current because the circuit is open! I get free energy!"  :D
False!  :(
In real life, the components are not punctual and they are not isolated from one another by light years distances. Even simple small pieces of wire are coupled by capacities or by induction and significant current can pass from one to another if the voltage and/or frequency is high enough.

@exnihiloest

QuoteWhat is discussed here is not new. It is related to "Avramenko's single wire transmission", known for years.
Whatever conductor, like the terminal of a neon or any piece of metal, possesses its own capacity, i.e it constitutes a capacitor, the other "plate" being the surrounding (ground, earth...)

I would agree in a general sense but you have used the terminology in such a way that it makes no sense whatsoever. For instance a piece of metal cannot possess it's own capacity as what we call capacity refers to energy in the form of an electric field between two things measured in volts/cm. The voltage refers to the relative difference in the charged state of the two things thus the capacity is not intrinsic to the metal object but everything else having a charged state which is different from the metal object as well. In most cases this is not the ground or earth but the air surrounding a metal object which contains water vapor. Most of your assumptions will only hold true if the circuit is grounded which I have found is a very good way to lower efficiency.

QuoteEven though this capacity is very weak (<< 1pF), it loops the circuit, and the voltage can be enough to light a neon, or to charge a capacitor using a double diode configuration. Current is consumed. I have also experimented this way and measured such a current which obeys conventional Kirchoff's laws.

In fact the "capacity" can be very large as it relates to the difference between two charged states and the distance between them, capacity cannot be weak nor strong, and does not have a requirement to "loop" any circuit. For instance if I charge a length of conductor then what we call the "voltage" in any given space relates to the charged state of the conductor and any other point in space which includes both conductors and insulators. The capacitance is then a ratio of the relative charged state of the conductor to the magnitude of the electrical field produced by it in a relative sense to everything else.
As well I do not understand this concept of "Current being consumed" as an electric current is the result of a change in the relative difference between two charged states or for the sake of simplicity the motion of charges due to a change in charge density. As such "current" cannot be consumed as the current is simply a measure of something, how can a measurement of relative motion be consumed? In fact the only thing which has occurred is that the charge imbalance has returned to ambient conditions, nothing is consumed.

QuoteThis setup is typically a trap for newbies in electronics because they model it by neglecting what makes it to function!
"Light, and no current because the circuit is open! I get free energy!"  :D
False!  :(
In real life, the components are not punctual and they are not isolated from one another by light years distances. Even simple small pieces of wire are coupled by capacities or by induction and significant current can pass from one to another if the voltage and/or frequency is high enough.

This setup can be a trap for experts as well especially when they start making assumptions based on conventional wisdom. You forgot to mention the little fact that if the rate of change of charge density on a conductor is sufficiently high then a wave like disturbance may result which propogates away from the source which produced it and becomes independent from it. In this case the conductor acts more like a point charge than a conductor and most everything you have mentioned falls apart as it does not apply.
Regards
AC

Quote from: allcanadian on December 08, 2010, 02:07:42 PM
...
For instance a piece of metal cannot possess it's own capacity...

False.
In physics, it is considered that at an infinite distance we have no charge: the electric field is zero.
Thus if a single body is charged, it is possible to calculate its capacity and it is easy to do it if its geometry is regular, the simplest being a sphere.

For example consider an isolated conducting sphere having a charge Q.
Electric field at infinity: Ei=0
Electric field at the surface of the sphere: Es=Q/(4*Ï€*ε0*r²) where r is the radius.

The potential difference U being the integral of the field, we just have to integrate Q/(4*Ï€*ε0*r²) along any path between r and infinity, which gives: U=Q/(4*Ï€*ε0*r).
To derive the capacity C of this isolated sphere is straightforward:
C= Q/U = 1/(4*π*ε0*r).

In layman terms, any conducting body is to be considered as the central electrode of a capacitor whose the other electrode is a conducting sphere surrounding the first one at an infinite distance.
In conclusion: a single isolated body possesses a capacity and it is the reason of the effect that we observe here. The "free" neon terminal conducts the current to the surrounding through this capacity. The surrounding is to be understood as all the conducting matter around it such the cases of other devices at a ground potential or the ground itself, which in fact is much nearer than infinity, meaning that the real capacity is more than that calculated by the preceding method, increasing the effect.

Quote
As well I do not understand this concept of "Current being consumed" as an electric current is the result of a change in the relative difference between two charged states or for the sake of simplicity the motion of charges due to a change in charge density. As such "current" cannot be consumed as the current is simply a measure of something, how can a measurement of relative motion be consumed?

"A current is consumed" means that, in order to maintain the current, you have to provide energy. It is just a way of speaking. It means that the energy of flowing electrons is used (for example for heating a resistance).
In our particular case, energy is needed to provide the current to replenish the energy that the neon is consuming for light (+ the losses).

Quote from: allcanadian on December 08, 2010, 02:07:42 PM
...
You forgot to mention the little fact that if the rate of change of charge density on a conductor is sufficiently high then a wave like disturbance may result which propogates away from the source which produced it and becomes independent from it. In this case the conductor acts more like a point charge than a conductor and most everything you have mentioned falls apart as it does not apply.
Regards
AC

I don't forget this point, I have it always in mind, I spoke elsewhere about it.
When dimensions of conductors and distances between them are short in comparison to the wavelength associated with the highest frequencies of the involved signals, the radiated EM energy is negligible and we can take the hypotheses of the quasi-stationary state approximation.
It is the case here thus this point is not relevant.

Quote from: exnihiloest on December 09, 2010, 03:40:34 AM
"A current is consumed" means that, in order to maintain the current, you have to provide energy. It is just a way of speaking.

current isn't "consumed"... it's a stupid way of speaking, use a more appropriate word like 'transformed' so you don't sounds so silly.

Hi All,
I have decided to construct and power the exciter tower and circuits shown in the links below. I intend to power it with DC (rectified back EMF) off my Bedini setup.  My question is right now what is the measured input "CURRENT" to the primary LI coil while using 12 to 18 volts to power a single tower?
 
http://brokenman.co.nz/science/wireless-energy/122-wireless-electricity.html?showall=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQ_fKHjDo0E

http://www.energeticforum.com/attachments/renewable-energy/6859d1289338089-bedini-circuit-fraction-1-watt-powers-all-abedini_and_rectifier-1-.jpg

Knowing what others found metering current in a similar 12 - 18 volt exciter setup would be a big help to me as I found a way to vary my OUTPUT current as well as voltage from my Bedini setuP.

The Bedini setup uses much less voltage and current to power all to 12 volts/current compared to using a variable 12-18 volt power supply. I case you might wonder.

Quote from: WilbyInebriated on December 09, 2010, 05:35:27 PM
current isn't "consumed"... it's a stupid way of speaking, use a more appropriate word like 'transformed' so you don't sounds so silly.

It's a good way of speaking for the given reason and every one understands it and uses it (http://www.google.fr/search?q=%22current+is+consumed%22).

Quote from: exnihiloest on December 11, 2010, 06:29:25 AM
It's a good way of speaking for the given reason and every one understands it and uses it (http://www.google.fr/search?q=%22current+is+consumed%22).

it may be a popular semantic faux pas, but that does not negate the fact that it is still a faux pas.

Quote from: WilbyInebriated on December 11, 2010, 09:23:18 AM
it may be a popular semantic faux pas, but that does not negate the fact that it is still a faux pas.

A "faux pas" is just your subjective opinion, arbitrary provided outside of any rational arguments.
It is really the energy of flowing electrons that is consumed, for example their kinetic energy when heating a resistance because of their collisions with the atomic lattice. Thus "consumed current" perfectly describes the phenomenon.

Here are guys.  I can get a nice hand held jacobs ladder using an MJE 13007 and 32V input.  Also no problem lighting 2 halogen lamps,10 W.  They glow beautifully, like my xenon beaker (last few secs of vid).  They will light from 12V using Mosfets, and the spark is just a little shorter in length.  I cant try the Mosfets on more than 15V or they blow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOSXdzWC6EA

Yes, exniholest - current is consumed.  But its still great fun.....and who knows whats possible?

Quote from: exnihiloest on December 12, 2010, 09:25:20 AM
A "faux pas" is just your subjective opinion, arbitrary provided outside of any rational arguments.

LMFAO... your last response was an appeal to popularity and now you claim i did not provide a rational argument?? LOL!! that's too funny... a rational argument was provided. consumed is neither precise nor specific. choose a more appropriate word like transformed.

Quote from: exnihiloest on December 12, 2010, 09:25:20 AM
It is really the energy of flowing electrons that is consumed, for example their kinetic energy when heating a resistance because of their collisions with the atomic lattice.

no. it is really transformed. it is not consumed. energy CANNOT be "consumed" except in the sense that you buy it again and again... ::) if you are asserting energy can be consumed you should show us the experimental evidence...

Quote from: exnihiloest on December 12, 2010, 09:25:20 AMThus "consumed current" perfectly describes the phenomenon.

the whole art of science is to describe what happens exactly... "transformed current" is far more specific and precise than "consumed current". therefore, "consumed current" does not even come close to describing the phenomenon "perfectly" unless one is attempting to perpetuate a misconception.

Quote from: WilbyInebriated on December 12, 2010, 07:26:55 PM
...
no. it is really transformed. it is not consumed.
...

You are repeating truisms. Of course energy is never "consumed" because it is conserved.
When we say "something is consumed", we mean that "something" from an energy source has produced a useful work and the source has been depleted.

When electrons heat a resistance, the heat comes from the energy of the electrons, then we can say "current is consumed" in despite the fact that the current is maintained constant by the battery replenishing the energy of the flowing electrons. Simple question of rhetorics.

Quote from: exnihiloest on December 13, 2010, 03:53:42 AM
You are repeating truisms. Of course energy is never "consumed" because it is conserved.
When we say "something is consumed", we mean that "something" from an energy source has produced a useful work and the source has been depleted.

When electrons heat a resistance, the heat comes from the energy of the electrons, then we can say "current is consumed" in despite the fact that the current is maintained constant by the battery replenishing the energy of the flowing electrons. Simple question of rhetorics.

your response is a fallacy. more than once now, i have given you a rational argument and you have not addressed how your claim is a "more perfect" description than mine. instead you have danced around, positing logical fallacies as your responses. first it was appeal to popularity, now it is red herring. regardless, the whole art of science is to describe what happens exactly... "transformed current" is far more specific and precise than "consumed current". thus, "consumed current" does not even come close to describing the phenomenon "perfectly" unless one is attempting to perpetuate a misconception.

from http://www.thefreedictionary.com/consumed
con·sume  (kn-sm)
v. con·sumed, con·sum·ing, con·sumes
v.tr.
1. To take in as food; eat or drink up. See Synonyms at eat.
2.
a. To expend; use up: engines that consume less fuel; a project that consumed most of my time and energy.
b. To purchase (goods or services) for direct use or ownership.
3. To waste; squander. See Synonyms at waste.
4. To destroy totally; ravage: flames that consumed the house; a body consumed by cancer.
5. To absorb; engross: consumed with jealousy. See Synonyms at monopolize.
v.intr.
1. To be destroyed, expended, or wasted.
2. To purchase economic goods and services: a society that consumes as fast as it produces.

from http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/consume
Definition of CONSUME
transitive verb
1: to do away with completely : destroy <fire consumed several buildings>
2a : to spend wastefully : squander
  b : use up <writing consumed much of his time>
3a : to eat or drink especially in great quantity <consumed several bags of pretzels>
  b : to enjoy avidly : devour <mysteries, which she consumes for fun â€" E. R. Lipson>
4: to engage fully : engross <consumed with curiosity>
5: to utilize as a customer <consume goods and services>
intransitive verb
1: to waste or burn away : perish
2: to utilize economic goods


it appears you are making up your own definitions for words now. ::) if you want to believe in your little misconception that is fine, but do not attempt to perpetuate it upon others...

why come to this thread to discuss the meaning of consume?

Isnt there a ''grammarandsemantics.com'' forum somewhere, which would suit you boys better?

Surely here we wanna see exciters with exciting results.....

Sorry for the off topic post - It is my last, I promise.

Quote from: WilbyInebriated on December 13, 2010, 04:15:57 AM
...
from http://www.thefreedictionary.com/consumed
con·sume  (kn-sm)
...
3. To waste
...
5. To absorb

Thank you for the confirmation. "Current consumed" means that its energy is wasted or absorbed in the resistance.

Quote from: exnihiloest on December 14, 2010, 04:26:43 AM
Thank you for the confirmation. "Current consumed" means that its energy is wasted or absorbed in the resistance.

i didn't confirm anything for you. its energy is neither "wasted nor adsorbed"... ::) it is transformed in the resistor into heat. quit being stupid.

Quote from: WilbyInebriated on December 14, 2010, 06:24:31 PM
i didn't confirm anything for you.
...

But the dictionary you quoted, did it.

Guys can you please take this topic somewhere else.

Here is a video showing another circuit that will work with smaller coils and higher voltages.

This one is kinda a Stiffler Slayer hybrid.

I just used some coils I had sitting around.So with some different coil configurations it should work great.
Also I haven't tried any coils off the collector yet.

Here is the video and circuit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWGRXUd1b4g

i know a few people have used water with their exciters. has anyone ever tried a larger amount than a glass? like a lake?

Wilby:

Great question.

Bill

PS  Or a frozen lake?

Quote from: Pirate88179 on January 16, 2011, 05:49:08 AM
Wilby:

Great question.

Bill

PS  Or a frozen lake?

yes, the body of water i was using had approximately an 18 inch layer of ice on it.

i made a slayer simple exciter with a coreless flyback coil

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-FxtRxgiaw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-FxtRxgiaw)

the battery has 1 volt in it and it is 127 ma's..
neat project

robbie

Quote from: kooler on January 18, 2011, 01:40:16 AM
i made a slayer simple exciter with a coreless flyback coil
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-FxtRxgiaw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-FxtRxgiaw)
the battery has 1 volt in it and it is 127 ma's..
neat project
robbie

@robbie (kooler):

I ordered some surplus fly back transformers, therefore I am very interested in your circuit. I like the idea to light a CFL from an AAA battery. It always catches the attention of onlookers.

It is almost impossible to reconstruct your circuit from the video. I would like to ask you to post a photo of a simple hand drawing of your circuit (schematics).

Great idea to remove the core of the HV-transformer, that increases the frequency and the step up rate still seems to be good enough. Do you hear any singing or screeching when your circuit is on?

I also saw that the spiral type CFLs are specially good for such experiments (they seem to ignite easier than the U-shaped tubes). But they are difficult to find in the stores nowadays, they where more common when the CFL-area began a few years ago.

Greetings, Conrad

Kooler nice job with the flyback.

In this video I added a coil to the collector of the transistor.And also added a indicator light with a led from the emitter to the base of the transistor.

I'm thinking this would work very good with Dr Stifflers NIFL setup.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeJvDIb7wxE

Quote from: conradelektro on January 18, 2011, 05:45:26 AM
@robbie (kooler):

I ordered some surplus fly back transformers, therefore I am very interested in your circuit. I like the idea to light a CFL from an AAA battery. It always catches the attention of onlookers.

It is almost impossible to reconstruct your circuit from the video. I would like to ask you to post a photo of a simple hand drawing of your circuit (schematics).

Great idea to remove the core of the HV-transformer, that increases the frequency and the step up rate still seems to be good enough. Do you hear any singing or screeching when your circuit is on?

I also saw that the spiral type CFLs are specially good for such experiments (they seem to ignite easier than the U-shaped tubes). But they are difficult to find in the stores nowadays, they where more common when the CFL-area began a few years ago.

Greetings, Conrad

conrad
here is the schematic..
it is like the tiny tesla coil that emdevices done a few year ago and like the simple slayer circuit.. .. oh there is no noise coming from the transformer.. the cfl seem brighter and consumes less ma's when hooked back to the pos..

Kooler:

Nice work man.

Bill

thanks bill,
i was to lazy to wind a large tesla type coil so i thought if this works then ppl could just use old flyback coils
this was my first slayer type circuit i have built.. and this isn't the proper way to build from his current specs
but i figured it may help ppl that didn't have alot of magnet wire to spare..


robbie

@ robbie (kooler):

Thank you for posting the circuit. I am awaiting 10 surplus fly back transformers (from PC monitors, each of them a bit different) any day now and will try to replicate your circuit.

I really like the 1 Volt power supply.

Greetings, Conrad

Hi all , This may be a really stupid question ,but how do I know which pins to connect to on the transformers??The one I have in front of me has 10 small pins ,3 big ones soldered in the circut board and 4 wires coming off the top of it. I just read about these things a couple weeks ago. I have very little knowledge having to do with electronics. .......any help would be appreciated...........thanx ....shylo

@shylo, fly back transformer pin identification

At the moment I am looking at fly back transformers myself, this might help (advice from Jean-Louis Naudin):

http://lifters.online.fr/lifters/labhvps/tht.htm

In case your fly back transformer has some writing on it (combination of letters and digits), you might find a data sheet on the internet. Take a photo of the face of your transformer that show some writing and post it.

Greetings, Conrad

Hi Conrad I don't have the means to post a pic ,I should get one of those camera phones. The numbers on this one are Sampo   0145    FE1B4OAT   FM 1057. Thanks for the link I'll check it out.      shylo

Here is an easy way to make a Slayer Exciter if you don't want to wind a big coil.

The L1 is a Ferrite Loopstick Antenna Coil for a crystal radio.
The L2 Primary is 9 turn of 23 awg mag wire.

The circuit is just the basic slayer exciter with a 1M resistor and a mpsa06 transistor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBA0qY0IbPI

In this video I just wanted to show the circuit I used in my last video.

And show some of the wireless range of the Exciter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-CQAzC10FM&feature=channel_video_title

With this setup I have been having very good results.
This is based off Dr Stifflers NILS setup he showed us along time ago.

If going back to the source battery this will NOT work without the C2 capacitor.
I have not tried different capacitors for C2 but other non polarized capacitors should work also.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvryiW34lyI

@Slayer:

I have to say it again, thank you for always giving comprehensible information like clear circuit diagrams and exact component specifications.

A question concerning the two ferrite beads: What happens when you put them away? Would there be some unwanted HF feedback into the transistor part of the circuit or would the HF from coil L1 dissipate without recharging the battery?

May be I am wrong, but the two tuning capacitors indicate that L2 is not optimal? (And it is indeed a practical way to overcome this with tuning capacitors.)

It is always difficult to show that a rather massive 12 V battery is recharged (because one would have to run the circuit for months). A better way could be to use a large electrolytic capacitor (e.g. 4800 µF) in parallel with the battery and to show how long the circuit runs on the electrolytic capacitor when the battery is disconnected? But you probably tried that already.

Greetings, Conrad

Quote from: conradelektro on March 15, 2011, 07:03:56 AM
@Slayer:

I have to say it again, thank you for always giving comprehensible information like clear circuit diagrams and exact component specifications.

A question concerning the two ferrite beads: What happens when you put them away? Would there be some unwanted HF feedback into the transistor part of the circuit or would the HF from coil L1 dissipate without recharging the battery?

May be I am wrong, but the two tuning capacitors indicate that L2 is not optimal? (And it is indeed a practical way to overcome this with tuning capacitors.)

It is always difficult to show that a rather massive 12 V battery is recharged (because one would have to run the circuit for months). A better way could be to use a large electrolytic capacitor (e.g. 4800 µF) in parallel with the battery and to show how long the circuit runs on the electrolytic capacitor when the battery is disconnected? But you probably tried that already.

Greetings, Conrad

Hello Conrad

The two ferrite beeds are just there to help with the rf filtering and to help with  impedance.

Yes using the very small coils it is hard to get this started without the varcaps.

The varcap across the power rail helps controll the current intake.
The two caps work very good togeather.

Hey dudas I'm new here and i just bought a tesla coil conform this image .... but insead of 1" diameter i have 1.4" and it's not working what can be the problem i chcked and rechecked the conections and they are good...

This is the image ...

http://www.google.ro/imgres?q=tesla+coil+wont+work+slayer+exciter&hl=ro&sa=X&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-Address&biw=1366&bih=686&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=SMnsMywo19xeDM:&imgrefurl=http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/4999-joulethief-sec-exciter-variants-68.html&docid=wGU9Y66iTEIe5M&imgurl=http://peswiki.com/images/thumb/6/6c/Slayerexcitertestcircui.jpg/500px-Slayerexcitertestcircui.jpg&w=500&h=469&ei=aK63T_iiMYeK4gTZ8r2sCQ&zoom=1

Thanks and sorry for bad englisch :D

Sorry people but this is why I will not be showing any more of my circuits on line.

TeslaTronix- Tesla Power For The Masses by TeslaTronix &mdash; Kickstarter (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/398893778/teslatronix-tesla-power-for-the-masses)

He is selling the slayer exciters, kits, and also selling my circuit diagrams.

I tried to get kickstarter to stop the project but no emails from them yet.

I tried to talk to TeslaTronix many times. His response was to F off.

Quote from: slayer007 on February 14, 2013, 12:30:36 PM
Sorry people but this is why I will not be showing any more of my circuits on line.

TeslaTronix- Tesla Power For The Masses by TeslaTronix &mdash; Kickstarter (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/398893778/teslatronix-tesla-power-for-the-masses)

He is selling the slayer exciters, kits, and also selling my circuit diagrams.

I tried to get kickstarter to stop the project but no emails from them yet.

I tried to talk to TeslaTronix many times. His response was to F off.

@Slayer: First of all, I can not imagine that TeslaTronix can make a real profit by selling this stuff.

Secondly, what would it matter to you? Obviously you have no commercial interests. Since years you are showing your creations in forums and on YouTube.

Well, by showing them worldwide you have given them away. And why should you not give your creations away for free?

You get some satisfaction by thinking about your ideas, by building something and by showing your contraptions. That is what you can can get. Take it. It is all there is for you.

Look how sad people look who try to sell overunity machines. Do you want to become one of these sad and apparently misguided persons?

Do you want to make some money by selling useless things?

It makes me happy, that I can pursue a hobby without having to try to make some money. I enjoy that privilege and do not care about what other people do with my ideas. My ideas might not be as good and valuable as yours, but still, may be you can relax and keep on enjoying your hobby as I do.

Greetings, Conrad

@all

Where  (how) does this arc come from.

Is this arc remarkable or is it a normal and not so interesting issue with this set up?

If yes what can we do with this arc ? Electrolisis ,   cold fusion ?  heuuheuuhh?

If yes Any idea how to improve this plasma arc without burning the transistor ? More volts , stronger transistor, Double transistor  more resistor on base etc  ..

regards

Laurent

Hi Laurent,   just opened up this thread  nice revivval of Slayer ......
this arc or plasma can be used   as a switch charger for caps .....  can you post your circuit??????  in another thread   Energy Amplification
and in my video Energy Amplification Pt 2 In / Out going up     yt    totoalas

Quote from: slayer007 on February 14, 2013, 12:30:36 PM
Sorry people but this is why I will not be showing any more of my circuits on line.

TeslaTronix- Tesla Power For The Masses by TeslaTronix &mdash; Kickstarter (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/398893778/teslatronix-tesla-power-for-the-masses)

He is selling the slayer exciters, kits, and also selling my circuit diagrams.

I tried to get kickstarter to stop the project but no emails from them yet.

I tried to talk to TeslaTronix many times. His response was to F off.

Slayer, Sad to hear your sentiments
Its been a fruitful journey and will be missing you  but if ever you want to share something important     please do so
Youve honed my electronics skill and learnt a lot from  MPSA06 not frying or popping anymore   lol
totoalas
just spread the news   from IAEC   Overunity and OU   forums so everyone will know who the Mighty Slayer   is   lol

Quote from: slayer007 on February 14, 2013, 12:30:36 PM
Sorry people but this is why I will not be showing any more of my circuits on line.

TeslaTronix- Tesla Power For The Masses by TeslaTronix &mdash; Kickstarter (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/398893778/teslatronix-tesla-power-for-the-masses)

He is selling the slayer exciters, kits, and also selling my circuit diagrams.

I tried to get kickstarter to stop the project but no emails from them yet.

I tried to talk to TeslaTronix many times. His response was to F off.

I appreciate your efforts and decissions. I don't post online the experiments and circuits I build.. for a simple reason like yours. I prefer the private groups.

Hi Conrad,
I have to say I really don't understand your post.  Do you really think it is ok for someone to steal an idea from some else and claim it as their own?  And do you really think it is ok for them to try and make a profit off someone else's efforts?  We have had at least 2 other people on the Energetic Forum that have had their ideas ripped off by lowlifes that are too lazy to do their own work.  I know in this world the way it is now this kind of thing is getting more and more common but that does not make it right.
Respectfully,
Carroll

Quote from: conradelektro on February 14, 2013, 03:07:08 PM

@Slayer: First of all, I can not imagine that TeslaTronix can make a real profit by selling this stuff.

Secondly, what would it matter to you? Obviously you have no commercial interests. Since years you are showing your creations in forums and on YouTube.

Well, by showing them worldwide you have given them away. And why should you not give your creations away for free?

You get some satisfaction by thinking about your ideas, by building something and by showing your contraptions. That is what you can can get. Take it. It is all there is for you.

Look how sad people look who try to sell overunity machines. Do you want to become one of these sad and apparently misguided persons?

Do you want to make some money by selling useless things?

It makes me happy, that I can pursue a hobby without having to try to make some money. I enjoy that privilege and do not care about what other people do with my ideas. My ideas might not be as good and valuable as yours, but still, may be you can relax and keep on enjoying your hobby as I do.

Greetings, Conrad

Quote from: slayer007 on February 14, 2013, 12:30:36 PM
Sorry people but this is why I will not be showing any more of my circuits on line.

TeslaTronix- Tesla Power For The Masses by TeslaTronix &mdash; Kickstarter (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/398893778/teslatronix-tesla-power-for-the-masses)

He is selling the slayer exciters, kits, and also selling my circuit diagrams.

I tried to get kickstarter to stop the project but no emails from them yet.

I tried to talk to TeslaTronix many times. His response was to F off.

Dont take it so badly. This just shows that there is interest in this stuff. ;)

If you have a better idea, then send it to kick starter and kick some butt!!

I know it sucks that this happened. But ya know what? Now is the time to break out the full blown 'open source' document to the device that was taken. They can do nothing about it being it has been shown by you for a while now. If they complain, tell them to F*** off. They sould completely understand that language.  ;) And you can prove it.  :o

The only way to beat them is to play the game, if your up for it.  ;)

Mags

Ya know, looking over that site, there are details presented. Is any of it, word for word what you might have said in a post or email? 

What would really get Kick starters attn. is a letter from your atty. This always gets some attn. ;)   When you just contact them your self, they think you got nothin. Geddit?

Mags

@Slayer

Quote
Sorry people but this is why I will not be showing any more of my circuits on line.
TeslaTronix- Tesla Power For The Masses by TeslaTronix &mdash; Kickstarter (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/398893778/teslatronix-tesla-power-for-the-masses)
He is selling the slayer exciters, kits, and also selling my circuit diagrams.
I tried to get kickstarter to stop the project but no emails from them yet.

I can understand your concern and it is a terrible thing that someone may profit from a variation of your design which is in fact a simple variation of stifflers circuits which was a variation of someone else's work with a HV Joule theif which was simply a blocking oscillator prior to that. Are you saying it is alright for you to profit from "borrowing" someone's idea and building on it but not them?.


AC

''Are you saying it is alright for you to profit from "borrowing" someone's idea and building on it but not them?. ''

Slayer hasn't made any financial profit from this device.  Tesla Tronix has.  I think Slayer is angry because this guy is calling what he is selling 'a slayer exciter', and so he is basically selling Slayers hard work. I think Tesla Tronix is acting in a highly unethical way.[/size]

Quote from: flathunter on February 15, 2013, 03:13:43 AM
''Are you saying it is alright for you to profit from "borrowing" someone's idea and building on it but not them?. ''

Slayer hasn't made any financial profit from this device.  Tesla Tronix has.  I think Slayer is angry because this guy is calling what he is selling 'a slayer exciter', and so he is basically selling Slayers hard work. I think Tesla Tronix is acting in a highly unethical way.[/size]

I don't think so. I think Slayer wanted to share with everyone his hard work and he mainly expected that everyone know how and why Slayer's technology works. I think if Slayer would wanted to sell his devices/schematics/ideas he would be able to do it. But a guy is replicating and selling his hard work. I think it can be about ethics, but business and ethics don't always come hand by hand.

I don't know Slayer, but I think he's a good man. He only needs to learn more. But it's obvious that if you don't want that someone else get proffit from your time and efforts, one of the most practise ways is not to publish the results.

Here we've a quote:
"Do you want that I tell you a secret my friend?..... It would be better if I don't".  ;)

Quote from: citfta on February 14, 2013, 05:58:43 PM
Hi Conrad,
I have to say I really don't understand your post.  Do you really think it is ok for someone to steal an idea from some else and claim it as their own?  And do you really think it is ok for them to try and make a profit off someone else's efforts?  We have had at least 2 other people on the Energetic Forum that have had their ideas ripped off by lowlifes that are too lazy to do their own work.  I know in this world the way it is now this kind of thing is getting more and more common but that does not make it right.
Respectfully,
Carroll

Quote from: allcanadian on February 14, 2013, 10:33:49 PM
@Slayer
I can understand your concern and it is a terrible thing that someone may profit from a variation of your design which is in fact a simple variation of stifflers circuits which was a variation of someone else's work with a HV Joule theif which was simply a blocking oscillator prior to that. Are you saying it is alright for you to profit from "borrowing" someone's idea and building on it but not them?.
AC

Since mankind started to "invent" something (may be since 200.000 years), people are stealing ideas from each other. To call it "stealing" implies a certain philosophy, namely the idea that "making a profit" is the goal of doing something. But there are a great many goals more worthy than "making a profit".

I like the idea that people make progress by learning from each other. Therefore it is important for me that people show what they have developed or discovered so that other people can use it and develop it even further. So, what many call "stealing" is in fact "learning". And it just depends on philosophy or worldview (Weltbild).

It is a very recent development that "learning from each other" has become "stealing from each other". It came with capitalism and did not really exist a few hundred years ago. Only since humankind has begun to see everything in terms of "making money".

The "intellectual property" idea was formalised in law at the end of the 19th century because of the industrial revolution. "Intellectual property" only serves capital. The lone inventor who becomes rich is a dream that very rarely becomes true. But big and rich companies benefit from "intellectual property" (in short from "patents") routinely every day.

The only thing I want to say: to protect ideas only makes sense in a capitalistic society and it only makes sense for the financially powerful. If you want that, well, cry because someone "steals your ideas". It will not help you, unless you have a lot of capital.

I want to share ideas and I want to learn from the ideas of others like I allow others to learn from my ideas (however small they are). It is a confrontation of worldviews, "capitalism" against "sharing", take your pick. But first look at your financial assets, that should help you to decide. Do not be such a sorry sight of having (almost) nothing and talking like a capitalist.

I understand that a rich individual defends "intellectual property", it makes sense, because having money is equivalent to being powerful. But I do not understand that a "non rich person" defends capitalism, she or he must have lost her or his sense of reality.

Greetings, Conrad

Slayer, think for example about the Keppe Motor. All we can say that it's a copy of a newman motor. Is unethical? I don't know, but to be sure, a lot of people has met the "Newman" motor thanks to keppe. It's just only different points of views.

  I remember just a few years ago we were trying to replicate something called a Joule Thief.  Now some of the garden lights use that same technology to light several leds off of just a single AA battery. As well as the Christmas lights, lighting many leds off of just a battery or two.  And they sell them for less than it would cost to buy the individual parts. 
The Chinese are very crafty people, and will apply any worthwhile gadget to their benefit. Who can stop that??? 
  I feel that we should stay with the "Open Source" idea, and not let money get in the way.
Those that have money to invest in a product, will do so. Those that don't won't. But, as a whole, we have all won.
All these worthwhile ideas will end up a gadget, at some point. But, not all countries agree on the patent rights, either. So, what's to keep someone especially in other countries from replicating and selling your ideas?  Just saying so?
The original Kacher device, Dr. Stifflers SEC projects, Joule Thief circuits, Tesla ideas, etz... which came first?
But, There is still no actual free energy device on the market, or is there???
I mean other than solar, hydro, or wind products. Which are in no way free, as they cost quite a bit, including their battery banks.

Quote from: flathunter on February 15, 2013, 03:13:43 AM
''Are you saying it is alright for you to profit from "borrowing" someone's idea and building on it but not them?. ''

Slayer hasn't made any financial profit from this device.  Tesla Tronix has.  I think Slayer is angry because this guy is calling what he is selling 'a slayer exciter', and so he is basically selling Slayers hard work. I think Tesla Tronix is acting in a highly unethical way.[/size]

Flathunter's right I see him as just using the slayer exciter and my work to scam people. $15 for diagrams that are online for free, $325 for an exciter that should cost under $20 to make.

Quote from: slayer007 on February 15, 2013, 03:36:34 PM
Flathunter's right I see him as just using the slayer exciter and my work to scam people. $15 for diagrams that are online for free, $325 for an exciter that should cost under $20 to make.

@Slayer: So, you show the good schematics for free on the Internet. And you show for free what the components really cost and where to get them. Further you show for free how to build the thing.

In principle you already have done that (by publishing your videos on YouTube). A new video or small web site pulling everything together in a comprehensible and concise way would be the ultimate revenge.

Then you have effectively counteracted the scam. If people still want to buy from a scammer, so be it. You could offer a kit for $25.-, but I think that this would only be a burden and will not give you a profit.

Greetings, Conrad

  Until the next guy sells an Exciter for $25, including the diagram. Or some oriental guys, will sell them for less than that.
  But, I know how you feel... and can't blame you.

  Look at what happened with Lasersaber's all in one solar device. Same thing...
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/solarjuan/eclipse-the-day-and-night-solar-solution

Quote from: slayer007 on February 14, 2013, 12:30:36 PM
Sorry people but this is why I will not be showing any more of my circuits on line.

TeslaTronix- Tesla Power For The Masses by TeslaTronix &mdash; Kickstarter (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/398893778/teslatronix-tesla-power-for-the-masses)

He is selling the slayer exciters, kits, and also selling my circuit diagrams.

I tried to get kickstarter to stop the project but no emails from them yet.

I tried to talk to TeslaTronix many times. His response was to F off.

I guess, this needs an action to write more complains to the KickStarter. Complaining only on this forum won't help too much. Any address, to contact the KickStarter to express a complain?

 At the very bottom of the kickstarter there is section that can be used to make comments, and report this add, but you have to sign in to use it.

These exciters are just another way to drive a Tesla coil, each different circuit is just a variation of the same basic thing.
A Kacher circuit does basically the same thing as a joule thief. Is there anything to really protect ?
The wireless aspect is a curiosity but it isn't all that useful when the distance is so short. Many of us can light tubes without wire's
but it isn't all that practical, the aspect of draining non rechargeable batteries right down is useful, though only if one has
the non rechargeable batteries to drain down.

As far as expecting people to not copy things that are not protected, I don't get it.
Imagine if the first guy to make a hat was seen wearing his hat then others began to copy his hat and use it,
does the guy who first made the hat have the right to go around telling other people they have no right to make
their own hat or make a hat for other people who might not be capable of making a hat but can catch fish to trade for hats.
Unless he was the only one with a weapon and had lots of time to deny everyone the use of the hat idea he would quickly
realize if he wanted to manufacture and sell hats he would have needed to be the only one to understand how to make the hat
and have control of all the hat making materials.

Would it be ethical to deny others the right to make a hat or to make and sell hats when it is such a simple thing ?
Some things are just too simple to warrant any protections.

The only way to protect a simple idea is to keep it secret.

Here's the bottom line, an exciter is really just a Tesla coil and 90% of the circuits that people use to drive the low power exciters do the exact same thing.

What is there to protect ? A few lines on a piece of paper ?

I thought we were open source experimenters/developers working for the good of mankind
to produce concepts and devices that save energy and better the environment.

I have a question for those with young children. Would you use an exciter to provide the power for a nightlight
or other such thing to be used for long periods in the same room as the young child ? Does the exciter not affect the environment ?
What are the effects of HF radiating devices on children ? Are the devices safe in the case of malfunction and fire.
If the transistor fails does the battery become shorted by the primary and maybe start a fire ?
How safe are the circuits and are they really suitable for sale without some safety aspects being addressed ?
Does anyone have any insurance against the devices they sell causing injury and legal action ?
If you sell an exciter and it burns down someones home and people die where do you stand legally ?
Imagine some young fellow (living with parents) with very little electronic experience buys an exciter online and sets it up in the
family home and it catches fire and burns the house down. If you charged the young fella money for the device and you claimed
it was safe and suitable for sale, then you could be held accountable maybe.

If I come up with a new circuit and post it online it's open source, all I ask is maybe some recognition, but it's not required. Use, use, use I say.

Cheers

I guess, it's even not about protecting rights; it is rather about making people aware that the product which that guy sells for real money, is available for free and it was available long time before he started his enterprise.
To make a comment on that site, one not only must register; only "backers" can do that. So, first you have to back him with at least $1 promise and must have established account to do so.

Yes Qwert, I see, but does that mean that even though no one else is offering kits he shouldn't do it either ?

Maybe one way to stop him is to present the safety issue to the site managers.

In my opinion if people want him to stop they should be prepared to offer better or the same kits at cheaper price
or with more features. Or at least be prepared to match him with a circuit which is theirs to sell.

Much better to leave him to it, he might make some money or he might end up in debt.

How long does it take one person to wind a tall coil ? And how much does a person charge for their labor ?

Sounds a bit expensive but not nearly as big a rip off as the good Mr Meyl's kits.

If the guy made his own site he would be untouchable as far as intellectual rights go, in my opinion anyway, right or wrong
I don't think he is breaking any laws in that area. Here's a tip for the guy. Fuse the circuits for safety.
I think if you want to walk away from home made circuits they need to have a fail safe.

I haven't looked that closely at the site so he may have safety features in place already as far as I know.

Cheers.

I guess, the KickStarter site is somewhat corrupt itself: it has some rules, but it is impossible to report when somebody is breaking the rules. But there still is the Webmaster and even others over them.

One way you guys have is telling his backers what is going on... I have made a Creative commons video that you can all reshare weather on your own channel, playlists or other method you may want.... I have followed Slayers work for the last couple of years and I am not happy with the situation ... we only have 16 days to make a difference here so make the most of it I say ....


Your all welcome to reuse my video ... or even make your own.... but anyway here is a link to my video, I hope it helps ....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDRfI_-U7ec




it is creative comms so there is no ads and you just need to click the "remix" button to get it over to your channel and share it with your subs ... all we have to do is convince a couple of the backers to look into this a little more and hopefully they will start pulling out, an even better out come would be a offer to back Slayer himself.... All the best to you all, this is about all I can do to help at this stage, hopefully enough people share it around that we get it in front of the right eyes




Kult.

Thanks Kult
I see Tesla Tronix made a new video. I guess he didn't look through the thread to good because the circuit he is using is on page 5.

I have seen his "original" circuit before at http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Build-a-Slayer-Exciter/?ALLSTEPS
He is saying in his new video that his is an original circuit derived from woopy's but all I see is a money chaser.
Disabling comments to videos only make him seem more scummy.

Quote from: slayer007 on February 17, 2013, 07:48:58 PM
Thanks Kult
I see Tesla Tronix made a new video. I guess he didn't look through the thread to good because the circuit he is using is on page 5.

I did notice mate, strange how he dose that ey? lol we'll do all we can, I've already had a few subs post and tell me that the have added it to their channels hopefully one of his backers blows the whistle on him and he gets shut down.... if the Kickbacker site gets enough complaints they might take it a little more serious ...

Happen just to have their link for that right here lol http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/398893778/teslatronix-tesla-power-for-the-masses/report/new


anyone a member of redit ? lol

To a certain extent I sympathize with Gary Bluer.  Mr. TeslaTronix is just a crafty Internet entrepreneur.  He did his research and created some fairly slick videos to go along with his Kickstarter pitch.  He is mostly making his pitch for the educational aspects of the device.  His stroke of genius was to get exposure via Kickstarter to people that do not follow the free energy forums at all.  So many people seeing the Kickstarter page will think it's new and really cool.

I thought that Kiskstarter was to fund small businesses and stuff like that.  He seems to be using it as a way to sell way-overpriced kits.  So perhaps he is outside of the normal terms of use for Kiskstarter and they will pull the plug on him?

He says, "Boasting one of the most simple Tesla coil driving circuits ever, TT makes wireless electricity simple, easy, and cheap for everyone."  Again, people on Kickstarter are for the most part (assuming) not free energy forum readers.  Some will assume that this is a device for "wireless electricity for the home" and that's wrong.

These circuits are fun to play with on your bench.  When you do that you are in the presence of a fairly strong high-voltage AC electric field.  I don't think that anybody wants to be subjected to high-voltage AC electrical fields for hours at a time.  It's kind of like living inside a microwave oven.  I am pretty sure that up to the skin depth the AC electrical field will induce AC currents going through your body.  So when you see a CFL bulb light up, that's one load.  What you might not realize is that your body itself is probably a small "load" because of the induced AC currents flowing through your flesh.

Whenever a product is put onto the market, it has to go through EMI compliance testing.  There are firmly established norms for the maximum amount of EMI radiation a device can emit.  This is also frequency dependent.

Probably 99% of ALL of the devices that you play with that use flyback pulses or high-voltage-high-frequency transformers like the Slayer exciter would NEVER pass EMI compliance testing.  So that means your devices are interfering with the radio spectrum and/or possibly emanating harmful amounts of EM radiation for humans.  That's another angle that might shut down Mr. TeslaTronix.

There is a chance that Mr. TeslaTronix will get is $15K and then just close up shop.  Not bad for making simple circuits on your kitchen table at night.

These simple high-voltage transformer circuits are nothing special and they have been around forever.  So in my opinion it's very hard to make an intellectual property argument for this stuff.  Right now it looks like it is more like first-come-first-served with the Kickstarter people.  The Kickstarter people had no clue what this was all about and thought it was cool and so they gave the guy the green light.  Mr. TeslaTronix gets to laugh all the way to the bank.

MileHigh

Hi Slayer
as you always say   for private and non commercial use only    thats plain english to me
he has not have the enthussiam we have for long nights without sleep to achieve a better or best result of each variant
the burns in our hands, the mound of MPSA06  and lastly the moment of truth when the lamp lit up our home .......
its FREE   FOR EVERYBODY  TO ENJOY 
TOTOALAS

I have one suggestion, bombard the oatmeal and get them to put it out what is going on. I can definitely see how this is a modern version of what happened between Tesla and Edison from back in the day. So I am betting he might very well get involved and we could end up with enough people knowing what exactly is going on here.  I wrote him after you got back to me Gbluer, over on youtube (morphtrust) Thanks by the way for explaining it to me, I passed this on to the 1200 people who may or may not read my facebook info, and discussed it with a few of the more well known steampunks I have made acquaintances with, so they are spreading the word as well.

First I would like to say hello to the members of this community.

Teslatronix, has been quite busy lately and has had little time to deal with keeping up with correspondences and defending his image / reputation.

The Kickstarter project pointed out in this thread has taken up a lot of time and he has been busy organizing a team of people to help, along with sourcing the components, and planning all the necessary logistics. I will elaborate more on that later, for now there are some matters to address:

Kaulder / Kultus / DesertExperimenter,

First, your posts on this forum thread violate the forum registration agreement:

QuoteYou agree, through your use of this forum, that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, adult material, or otherwise in violation of any International or United States Federal law.

The video you have produced and published on YouTube, in which you identify Teslatronix and advocate redistribution of your defamatory statements, constitutes criminal defamation in all states of Australia under the Uniform Defamation Law. The criteria for proving criminal defamation are explicitly expressed numerous times in your published video.

Disagreeing with someone who is acting within the law, on what constitutes fair business practices, does not give you the right to harass and defame them, and there are very well defined legal standards for resolving this type of behavior and awarding monetary damages, even from those who are merely redistributing your video.

Consider this a warning. If you do not take down the video, you are opening yourself up for legal action.


To the other members of this community:

We understand that several members of this community are concerned about the use of a specific circuit, which is freely available from numerous sources online, many of which do not have adequate accreditation.

First, please understand that when freely publishing information, there is no legal recourse for enforcing how that information is used, redistributed in other forms, or modified. One cannot simply draw something, publish it online, and say it's not for commercial use.

If you wish to protect your intellectual property, specifically designs, a patent is necessary. However, patents do not give your idea ultimate protection. Patents afford inventors limited protection for a specific period of time, and are meant for advancing the state of the art; after the given period of protection has expired anyone may use the designs in any commercial or non-commercial manner they choose.

Even during the period of protection, individuals or businesses may build the protected device for experimental purposes. This exists to encourage the advancement of the state of the art, as patents that do not accurately express the method of operation may be challenged, and those who are able to significantly improve the device may re-patent it in their own name.

If you truly want to protect your work, you must keep it secret; the downside is if someone else publishes the same idea you then don't even get credit for the idea.

It seems that the majority of members here understand this, and that all design is in some way derived from other designs in whole or part.

Others here think it is unfair to sell something that is freely available online, Teslatronix has himself on numerous occasions expressed that the information on this technology is freely available, and has made the information of what he was experimenting with available to the public. His goal is to inform, educate, and provide hobbyists and experimenters with kits and completed experimental devices to be used in their own experiments.

With respect to the Kickstarter, people are not forced to buy schematics, it exists merely as a low level donation reward for those who want to help the project, and get something physical they can hold onto and look at. It is no different those who have decided to pledge $1 to help the project without any expectations of anything physical in return. 

For clarification:

1. The final circuit diagrams and information that will be delivered for backer rewards, while in some ways may be derived from others work, are significantly different modifications, or entirely different from those in question.

2. The diagrams, and information are of original author and are not authored by anyone other than Teslatronix; they do not violate any copyrights. 

For example: If you draw a cat, and write a book on cats, the work is copy written to you. This does not mean however that someone else can't draw a picture of a cat (whether the same or different) or write a book on cats in different verbiage. Copyright does not protect the subject matter of drawing or book; only the actual end product.

3. Much more than just a basic oscillator circuit drawing is being delivered at the $15 donation level. Complete written instructions with illustrations, photographs, as well as downloadable content will be provided for how to build complete Tesla coils, and numerous related devices and accessories, as well as basic circuit theory, how to solder and other information so as to be a complete educational package for beginners. 

Information on how to cook is freely available virtually everywhere. Does this mean that everyone will be able to easily find the recipes, gather quality ingredients, and follow the directions they find, and wind up with a meal that is of the quality of a professional chef? 

Does this mean that no one should be allowed to collect, organize, and present information how to cook in a very easy to follow way for those who are not savvy enough to create their own recipes?

4. The same information in its most basic form will be available for free to the public, for those who actually have the skill and understanding to interpret and follow circuit drawings and technical language without being educated on it first.

If you think you can produce kits cheaper than us, by all means do so, but I can assure you that there is virtually no profit margin on these, and if you had to pay someone else hourly to merely produce these kits, you would lose money outright.

When you look at the cost of a kit to build a Tesla coil, keep in mind 10% of that money right off the bat goes to Kickstarter as their fee.  Also shipping costs, and packing materials are factored into that price. Go ahead and price boxes, tape, bubble wrap, and plastic zip bags.

Now go ahead and source the components. The spools of magnet wire provided alone cost $10. Now factor in that an individual would be buying small quantities and paying significant shipping on each item order, from numerous vendors.

Many people have done the math themselves, for $50 people get almost everything they need to make a Tesla coil, and this is why so many people have backed the kits, because they realize it is absolutely worth them paying $50 to not have to spend all the time, and in a lot of cases its actually cheaper than they could buy the materials, not factoring in the time they would spend.

While Teslatronix is not a member of this forum, it does not mean that he should be harassed and defamed for what he is trying to do.

Teslatronix has a background in electronics, and created a YouTube channel in order to show people the things he was experimenting on.

He wants to create a website, forum, and ultimately a community of online experimenters and researchers to promote energy independence, alternative power sources, and general science; as well as procuring additional tools, hardware, and materials to continue and advance his own research.

Tools and materials are expensive these days, initially it was recommended to Teslatronix to create a Kickstarter for Tesla coils to see if there was any interest in this subject matter. The initial goal was fairly low, and he never expected to make any significant profit.

His goal was simply to be able to have the funds to purchase some materials in bulk, distribute the information and kits to the public, while maybe making a little $ or breaking even with some extra materials left over to put towards other projects, web hosting, and some equipment. The low pledge request and limited number of backer rewards is viewable by all.

He never expected the level of support that has come about, but at the same time should he turn it down when there is the capability to fulfill all orders from the backers?

What started as a project that could have been easily completed by one person part time, has turned into something that has the potential to create something significant.

Everything has been very busy here and while things may seem incomplete or disjointed, that is soon to change. In a very short time a core team has been assembled to fulfill all aspects of the Kickstarter project with the utmost quality and professionalism.

Whether it be project management, research & design, fabrication, packaging & shipping, media production / web design, or Legal we have all aspects covered, and some big things are on their way.

Now that the project has become successful, a handful of people have come out of the woodwork, thinking they are entitled to money or equipment, or telling us we should either fix our prices, cap our sales, or otherwise limit our project in some way.

These people think they are entitled to money and equipment from us without being part of the project or doing any of the work. When they were encouraged to start their own Kickstarter projects, they launched a massive smear campaign rather than collaborate or cross promote each other's work.

We encourage anyone who wants to do a similar project to go ahead, competition and collaboration in parallel lines of research is what we are all about. It is a shame that a few individuals have decided to devote so much of their time to trying to destroy someone else rather than create a project of their own.

For those of you who think that Teslatronix is somehow taking all the money out of the market, two months ago there was a Tesla coil Kickstarter project that generated $160,000. Teslatroix's Kickstarter is a fraction of that, and is not stopping any of you from starting your own project.

If you want to start your own Kickstarter we'd even be happy to give you some advice and cross promote your work. If it's something we find worthwhile we may even back it! There are billions of people in the world, the 200 some people backing Teslatronix Kickstarter are not going to keep you from making your own successful project. Working together to promote the technology and cross promote our work is only going to draw in more backers for everyone, imagine if any of these ideas went mainstream.

If you're not willing to do the work required to make something successful, and have had ample time in the past to try to do so, why try to stop someone else from achieving success?

These people have now continued by recruiting others who are uninformed of the situation, to continue to defame Teslatronix & the Kickstarter project.

Teslatronix is not trying to hide anything by disabling video comments on YouTube.

I'm betting if you had a YouTube channel and woke up to dozens of vulgar defamatory comments by a very small group of people who kept making additional YouTube accounts in order to post additional comments you would disable them too, rather than waste your time spending all day moderating comments when you actually have real work to do.

I hope this has clarified things, and we encourage you to visit our YouTube channel, as there are many updates soon to come.

http://www.youtube.com/teslatronix1

 :o :o

Tesla Tronix anyway you say it your just trying to make money off someone elses work.
If you just wanted to just get the information out you would just show it for free instead of charging  $15 to see it.
A little hint you will get a lot views for free. :o
And even if it cost $10 for wire remember this is only a few component circuit.

Firstly My name is not Kaulder, I have no idea where you got that from, You may call me Kul'tus, if you can pronounce it...



Secondly: A warning for me? oh you / he shouldn't have ....


sue me ?


Go for it.


Wonder where you're /he'd be going to get the money to sue someone from another country???


You / he wouldn't be considering Misappropriation of funds would you now ?

QuoteI'm betting if you had a YouTube channel and woke up to dozens of vulgar defamatory comments by a very small group of people who kept making additional YouTube accounts in order to post additional comments you would disable them too, rather than waste your time spending all day moderating comments when you actually have real work to do.

Considering none of us would do what you / he  has done, we have no fear of such an attack, further more if we happened to copy someone else work by mistake and we found out about it,  The person would be man enough to take it on the chin and apologize. Not like TT and start a political campaign to see who is the better sales man ....  No one has cussed you out although I am sure that Slayer can prove your abuse towards him.  You or TT want to sue me for speaking the truth... BRING IT ON!


I look forward to hearing from somebodies lawyer ....

I'd just like to say that DesertExperimenter isn't what I would call a typical Australian,
I cringe when I see video's like that. If that video was shown to a court he would be likely classed as a raving loon.
I doubt it would have any effect on the kickstarter people, except to drop their jaws in wonder for a bit.
Like many others he libels people without even being aware of his actions, vilifying people in text is not a good idea.
It's kinda weird if you ask me, all this ruckus over a few components arranged on a board that no one has any intellectual rights to.
When we post stuff online as open source we agree to allow anyone to use the circuits any way they wish.

If we look at open source software I think it can be modified packaged and sold on legally.  It might not seem right but I think
it is a risk we take when we post our circuits online in public for public use.

At least he called it a slayer variant, he could have called it anything, my suggestion to him is drop all reference to slayer.
What is slayers circuit a variant of ? Does slayer give credit to the designer of the circuit he modeled his own around ?
Is slayers circuit original in all respects, as in what it does or it's component parts ?
I've never  really looked to closely at slayers circuits but from what I can tell
it's just a feedback oscillator isn't it ? All circuits are just variants of each other, there are only a few core components.

Personally I think you guys should look more to the safety aspect of it if you want to stop it.
I have Tesla coils both large and small continuous wave circuits and non continuous wave designs, HV and LV
and I agree when you fire up a Tesla coil and you are near it you become swamped with it's field, if it
works well and has any power, I wouldn't consider continuous use of them "safe",
especially not with children around, and that's not even considering electric shock or fire hazards.

As well as that they interfere with radio reception and could be considered a breech of some law if the power exceeds a certain amount.
An experiment every now and then is not so bad as having one run all night to power a night light or something. They cause radio interference
and if it happens to affect an emergency radio frequency would you feel good about that ? Is anyone aware of the frequencies they can use and
the frequencies they should stay away from to avoid problem interference ?

I don't see any infringement of intellectual rights.

Can someone post "The Slayer Exciter circuit" which is supposedly slayers to control or have rights to ?

Cheers

Farmhand, having a dig at me as to weather or not I am a "typical" Aussie or not is constructive to the discussion how ?




We are more than aware that the best step will be to aim at safety of the device at question, I think your long winded explanation there was to cover up for your dislike of me ? in any order I am not here to make friends, only to make a difference, don't care what you want to call me, but know it wont go unnoticed.


If anyone does the wrong thing, I will happily call them out, weather it be something against the law or by morals... they will hear from me, if you don't like than, then maybe you should get up on the soap box and have a go, if not me, then who is around to keep the bastards honest, if you don't have what it takes to step up on that soap box then leave it to someone who is.


Having someone is better than no-one.  If don't like my videos and cringe so much over them .... stop watching them FFS it's not like that's any form of rockets science ..... 

All safety issues will be clearly addressed in the documentation provided, and safe operating practices will be spelled out. As stated in the kickstarter, these devices are not intended to replace or augment any commercial product, and are for experimental use only.

Quote from: Teslatronix on February 19, 2013, 01:41:37 AM
All safety issues will be clearly addressed in the documentation provided, and safe operating practices will be spelled out. As stated in the kickstarter, these devices are not intended to replace or augment any commercial product, and are for experimental use only.

So you are going to seek FCC approval before letting these devices out into the public, Which is going to take you many years to achieve ?


to make this question message clearer for you,  as I see you fail the most basic of morals, the device puts out a RF field of many watts, it is a transmission tower of great power, you need to seek the approval of many US and world wide agencies to get this systems approved world wide otherwise those who use the system may incur a MASSIVE fine for squashing emergency, TV . Radio or other RF channels .... You, such a intelligent man, I am sure you're going to give me a answer that will clear all this up .... oh and please don't worry I shall follow up on your progress....

Quote from: Farmhand on February 15, 2013, 06:24:56 PM

How safe are the circuits and are they really suitable for sale without some safety aspects being addressed ?

"The dangers of contact with high frequency electrical current are sometimes perceived as being less than at lower frequencies, because the subject usually doesn't feel pain or a 'shock'. This is often erroneously attributed to skin effect, a phenomenon that tends to inhibit alternating current from flowing inside conducting media. It was thought that in the body, Tesla currents travelled close to the skin surface, making them safer than lower frequency electric currents. In fact, in the early 1900s a major use of Tesla coils was to apply high frequency current directly to the body in electrotherapy.
Although skin effect limits Tesla currents to the outer fraction of an inch in metal conductors, the 'skin depth' of human flesh at typical Tesla coil frequencies is still of the order of 60 inches (150 cm) or more.This means that high frequency currents will still preferentially flow through deeper, better conducting, portions of an experimenter's body such as the circulatory and nervous systems. The reason for the lack of pain is that a human being's nervous system does not sense the flow of potentially dangerous electrical currents above 15–20 kHz; essentially, in order for nerves to be activated, a significant number of ions must cross their membrane before the current (and hence voltage) reverses. Since the body no longer provides a warning 'shock', novices may touch the output streamers of small Tesla coils without feeling painful shocks. However, there is anecdotal evidence among Tesla coil experimenters that temporary tissue damage may still occur and be observed as muscle pain, joint pain, or tingling for hours or even days afterwards. This is believed to be caused by the damaging effects of internal current flow, and is especially common with continuous wave (CW), solid state or vacuum tube type Tesla coils. Some transformers can provide alternating current with such high frequencies that the skin depth becomes small enough for the voltage to be safe"

Quote from: Kultus on February 19, 2013, 12:46:25 AM
Farmhand, having a dig at me as to weather or not I am a "typical" Aussie or not is constructive to the discussion how ?




We are more than aware that the best step will be to aim at safety of the device at question, I think your long winded explanation there was to cover up for your dislike of me ? in any order I am not here to make friends, only to make a difference, don't care what you want to call me, but know it wont go unnoticed.


If anyone does the wrong thing, I will happily call them out, weather it be something against the law or by morals... they will hear from me, if you don't like than, then maybe you should get up on the soap box and have a go, if not me, then who is around to keep the bastards honest, if you don't have what it takes to step up on that soap box then leave it to someone who is.


Having someone is better than no-one.  If don't like my videos and cringe so much over them .... stop watching them FFS it's not like that's any form of rockets science .....

Well I consider what you did as wrong so I called you out, same deal. Or are you the only one allowed to do that ?

So where is the Slayer circuit that is protected, the one to which Slayer has intellectual rights over ?
Please produce it and explain why he has rights over he circuit.

You seem very confident in the video. Show us what it is you are talking about.
I'll use circuits posted in public however I please as long as they are not protected.
So will others. And feel no guilt as there is nothing wrong with it.

If you want to stop others using the circuit for monetary gain then you need to protect it.
Best way is to keep it secret. Even a patent can't stop a person unless it is patented in that country.

And by the way a lawyer isn't necessarily needed to take another person to court.
Also some lawyers will work pro bono if they know they can win, and if they win you pay the costs.
Then if you don't pay you go to jail I think.

A warning is likely required by law before action can be taken. I really don't know but it seems logical to me
to give a warning and if there is no response then action can be taken. It's fair practice to give warning.

Cheers

Attack attack attack attack attack!!! lol  You are more than welcome to "call me out" When and if indeed you are correct, Farmhand I think you'll find you are already in the right section of this forum to find all this out for your self, page 5 in fact contains the main circuit in connection to this argument. I wont banter with you over the difference of doing right and wrong, if you are moraless, then I truly cannot help you. If you truly believe that what has been given to the world to be used without profit can be taken and made a profit from with no regards to it's author, then you are more evil then I first gave you credit for. 


Now as for my being taken to the law as it were, I hope he has a truly grand lawyer, what you see in my videos in the back ground and on my bench is at least 90% of my worldly belongings, so if they want to come and sell off my "junk" as many would refer to it, then they can have at it lol, I'm pretty sure I'm not worth taking for any money.....


Have you ever heard of a reporter here in Australia called Darryn Hinch ... prolly not... so heres a link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derryn_Hinch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derryn_Hinch)read up on his  "Controversies" about half way down the page.... a typical Aussie I would say, named and shamed pedophiles back in the 80's and went to jail for a few days over it ... think of me as the Derryn Hinch of the Free energy world, if you don't like me that's fine, I'm not here to win friends, just to make a difference.


I must question your motives however, do you not think Gbluer is owed some respect and credit at the very least, these are circuits he has come up with ?


this will be the last reply you get from me as your banter is retracting away from the true problem here and try as you may we have a topic ... and it's not about me surprise surprise!!! 

@Teslatronics


Personally I have no problem with what you are doing and we should be realistic in our expectations if we tell people we want to share our idea's.
As well I believe any person who claims outright that any invention or idea is theirs and theirs alone is most likely a liar. We all base our idea's on the work or idea's of others and we are bound to them. We may not acknowledge them but that does not change the facts in any way and I have yet to research the timeline of any person who did not get almost all of their idea's from someone else.


Now if your circuit is a variation of slayers circuit then you have no worries because slayers circuit is simply a variation of someone else's circuit. To be honest I found this whole scenario very disappointing, a person tells the world I want to help people, I want to share, I want to get the message out then wants to sue anyone who they believes may profit from their supposed idea's they supposedly gave to the world.


I'm actually in the process of building a technology website and the disclaimer will state categorically --- All technology is given freely and I encourage everyone to experiment, build, share and sell to anyone in any way anything they please, I encourage it. Understand in some cases I have worked decades on these technologies but my feeling is that this BS has to end. At some point someone has to stand for something and stand by it for the benefit of everyone because what were doing isn't working, we need to invoke change for everyone's benefit no strings attached.


I think people will like some of these devices, for instance a magnetic bearing which can be build for under $20 and support loads up to 50lb's with full stability on all axis. Take you Bedini rotor and give it a gentle nudge it will make a few revolutions where mine would spin for 30 min to an hour depending on the inertia of the rotor. Lol, that should get a little attention.


AC

Is this the message (http://www.overunity.com/8977/gbluerslayer-exiter/msg257355/#msg257355) containing the diagram
which is the subject of this present controversy?

The circuit shown in the diagram contains
nothing new or unknown regarding the many
variants of the solid state self oscillating "Tesla Coil."

That an experimenter has independently stumbled
onto circuit configurations and techniques which
have previously been discovered and documented
is not surprising.  But to claim it as something new
and original would be inappropriate.

Here's a couple of circuits for FM wireless transmitters. All these transmitter/amplifier circuits seem to do the same or
at least very similar things with all the same components.

These PDF's have parts lists, circuit diagrams and build instructions.
With some experiment and modifications they could be made to work at different frequencies.

If a few parts were taken away or re-arranged my bet is that there is a Slayer exciter circuit in there somewhere.

Take note the PDF's are copyrighted but I doubt that applies to the circuits if the circuits are separated.
I could take one of those circuits modify it and make my own PDF's and kits and sell them as far as I can tell.
Many of these circuits have been around since the beginning of the last century or so in some basic form or another.

http://www.wiltronics.com.au/datasheets/227pn1-dc1v1.pdf

http://www.wiltronics.com.au/datasheets/ki0232.pdf

EDIT: The price of these two kits is one is about 9 dollars and the other is about 12 dollars.


I believe that most of these "exciter" circuits are just simplified versions of other circuits.

Personally I'm all for open source, here's the thing, anyone can go into direct competition with Teslatronix.

I think this is the idea of open source. No one has has any more rights over public unprotected material than anyone else,
which maintains fair competition.

Personally I wouldn't take any money from kickstarter or any other entity because it gives them some control.
But each to their own.

Cheers

There isn't one of Slayers circuits in either of those links ... sorry bud, off again ..... Just for a starter neither of them have any diodes in them that is unless you want to be picky and call out the pn junction transistor as diodes which technically they are but they are not in the proper configuration to preform the same actions as a Diode in one of Gbluers Slayer circuits, so no slayer in there mate.  want to have another try ? so long as it's on topic I'll humor you....

I think it's important to remember Slayer is the good guy here and he has done a great deal of work and shared it with others. I have the utmost respect for people who share their work freely with others because they believe they can make a difference. As such I do not think Teslatronics work takes away from that in any way and Slayers work was acknowledged in the literature.

I think we are missing the bigger picture here because there are no sides only intent and both parties want to help people. Isn't it enough that we all want to help make the world a better place?, I can think of no more noble cause and we should not be fighting one another we should be helping one other.

This can seem like a thankless endeavor even at the best of times but we know why we are doing it, others know why we are doing it and if our heart is in the right place we can never fail them or ourselves. You know in life and love words matter and sometimes the words must be said...
Thank you for all the work you have done slayer and it has not gone unnoticed by the people here.
Thank you Teslatronics for trying to make a difference and trying to make a buck or two is never a bad thing if our heart is in the right place.

Never forget, not now not ever, we are the good guys.

AC

Open source sharing will be halted if this type of thing  can Grow with the help of innocent
contributors who are unaware of the original open source intent.


Here is a man that shares all his work open source [at great financial cost to himself].





Slyder


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDRfI_-U7ec (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDRfI_-U7ec)


Published on Feb 16, 2013[/color][/font]
This is a Creative commons licenced video please add to your channel so we can get this out to as many people as we can in the 16 days left that we have... please include all the data below in the description. Thank you all for the support!!




IMPORTANT INFORMATION PLEASE READ ESP IF YOU ARE A DONOR TO THIS MAN!!!

Let be very clear here, he stats in his own video that this device is a "Slayer exciter" the name given to Gbluer's device he has been working on for the last several years.

Nikola Tesla NEVER used anything like a transistor in his Wardenclyffe tower experiments, please do you research he used Very High voltages, spark gaps and condensers, not Diodes and transistors like Gbluer has in his experiments, they may have their similarities but the only way this man got his idea was to take them from Gbluer and others that have been working on these "Slayer" devices over the past years.... Tesla Tronicix cannot deny that by any means, this is not TESLA Tech it's Gbluers TECH!!! TT is a thief and if he is willing to do this to 1 man... what is he going to do with your money ??


Gbluer tried to contact him and (excuse the language) was told to Fuck off by TT... not very nice way to great the creator of what you are working on and now getting quite a lot of money for. This man does not know what he is talking about ... In TT's "Kickstarter update 2/16Kickstarter update 2/16" he refers to one of the coils as a "L2" L2 is the term used by circuit simulation programs to mean inductance coil .... If he knew what he was talking about and not just repeating what he read on Gbluer's notes... the coil is in fact called a secondary winding or secondary coil .... the other coil of the device is called the primary coil or primary winding and one who knew what they were doing would NEVER I repeat NEVER refer to it as L1 and L2 ... rookie mistake right there ...


This man is piggy backing someone else's work for your money and he doesn't even know exactly what is doing, please take heed to my warning as there are many more deserving people out there who could do with funding .... This man is just replicating what he saw and using that to get your money.

The deserving Original Developer is Gbluer (Slayer) from the overunity forum
here is a link to their forum and project
http://www.overunity.com/8977/gbluers... (http://www.overunity.com/8977/gbluerslayer-exiter/msg352920/#msg352920)


here you can see gbluers original note from 3 years ago ... funny how he wrote L1, L2 for the primary and sec coils ....
http://www.overunity.com/8977/gbluers... (http://www.overunity.com/8977/gbluerslayer-exiter/#.USBzRx2VOgM)


You will find the exact circuit being used by TT on page 5 of Gbluer's forum thread dated Sept 2010.... 3 years ago .....

Photobucket pic of my question that got me blocked from his channel
http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i... (http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i442/Kultus01/tt_zpsb1b714c7.jpg)
http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i... (http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i442/Kultus01/tt2_zpsecbd0deb.jpg)

here is the link to the Fraudsters accounts TeslaTronicx

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/... (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/398893778/teslatronix-tesla-power-for-the-masses)

http://www.youtube.com/user/TeslaTronix1 (http://www.youtube.com/user/TeslaTronix1) - You will notice he recently blocked all comments to his videos as he doesn't want Gbluer and others to point this out to you, but I have nothing to lose, I'm quite happy to bring you the truth!!!!

https://www.facebook.com/tesla.tronix (https://www.facebook.com/tesla.tronix)

http://www.teslatronix.com/ (http://www.teslatronix.com/)

When all of the dust settles it will be
evident that the circuit in question is
indeed an old circuit which has been
used by others in the past.  Tesla Coilers
have been at this "business" for many
decades and have used transistors in
various configurations of the device since
they have been available.

It is understandable that those who are
new to "the art" have no knowledge of
what has been done before.  And to come
to the conclusion that what is being done
now is "new" and "unique."

It really is not.  Experimenters just like
yourselves have been doing this sort of thing
for many, many years.

Yes, the dust will settle and it will be evident
that there really is nothing new under the sun...

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/12637-slayer-exciter-specs-2.html#post225378 (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/12637-slayer-exciter-specs-2.html#post225378)
ORDER NOW WHILE THE SUPPLY LAST   

Thank you for all the work you have done slayer and it has not gone unnoticed by the people here.
Thank you Teslatronics for trying to make a difference and trying to make a buck or two is never a bad thing if our heart is in the right place.

Never forget, not now not ever, we are the good guys.

AC
I think I ll settle it for a draw lol   BUT TO THINK OF IT AS  AN OPEN SOURCE FROM THE VERY BEGINNING ...  A WORD OF HONOR
  a million thanks   to  Dr Stiffler Gbluer Jonnydavro Xee2  Jujusalva Nickz Seth Lidmotor Jiffycoil Kooler  Skywatcher   and newbies like me and the rest of Tesla fans Time and money well spent for the good old days 
NO MORE FIRE THAT REPLACE THE CANDLE   NO MORE LOSS OF LIFE TO RECKON WITH     LIGHT IN EVERY HOME

CHECK OUT HISTORY OF THE BUILDER AND REPLICATORS
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/showthread.php?t=4999 (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/showthread.php?t=4999)

Funny thing TOTO
you rattle off names of men dedicated to selfless service to their fellow man ,that spent thousands of dollars and thousands of hours dedicated to open sourcing and sharing their work to make a better world.


And in the next breathe you pat a man on the back who at best is a crafty self serving
money monger.


this man is not one of these men , and the precedent  being set here ,where he makes a cash grab on the work performed by others will hinder "sharing" greatly in this open source community.


the only winners here will be lawyers in the long run as well as suppression of technologies at the patent offices.


and that is the real stomach turner here............


Just one mans opinion


Chet

Over my time on these forums I have made many "trust worthy" friends.  I was as many know on my home forum getting ready to share my Tesla Tech with the forum in the next couple of months, however now after seeing this, that won't be happening as fast,  I will be making sure I close all avenues for this to happen to me and thus this may take another couple of years.


There are ways to patent things with the patent office, for instance one can patent it as a toy or a teachers aid kit... just to give a slight idea. What I have come up with and I have been very quite about (but have aloofly shared with trusted friends behind closed doors) can and would be snapped up by someone like Teslatronix ..... If donors get ripped off by people they "think" are from our  community enough times by frauds and those whom just replicated and have no nouse of their own to do real research, then the day will come where donor won't be interested in being "ripped off" one of us will come up with the idea but then have no where to turn to get it out ... and it WILL be thanks to the like of Telsatronix


I think now is the time we stop free scouring until a device can be proven to be yours even if you don't want to make money off it... so other bastard is going to try and use your ideas to get rich from .... point proven this week. It's sad but true.... we've all been in this for years, we know who we can trust, newbies have enough info out there on the web to get started without us sharing future developments.  If you are unfamiliar with the out come Bart proves the Bum correct by showing the date the original drawing was signed and dated by the bum


Obviously gone the day where mailing yourself a idea you had, laid claim to you for it by the post date, I wouldn't think the courts are that stupid that if Gbluer and Teslatronix went to court ... they both showed their first implementation of a circuit for a particular use, that they would side with the  man with the most money ...... We've all seen the Simpsons "The Day the violence died" Se7 Ep 11


"On the 75th anniversary of Itchy & Scratchy, Bart meets a bum who says he was the real creator of Itchy and Scratchy. This turns out to be true and wins a law suit of eight hundred billion dollars and buys a solid gold house. To Bart and Lisa's dispair they have killed Itchy and Scratchy. Kirk Douglas plays the bum and he has some great lines." 

If you are unfamiliar with the out come Bart proves the Bum correct by showing the date the original drawing was signed and dated by the bum. same thing here, when was the first time.


Bottom line here ...one of them can unequivocally prove without doubt when they started using the circuit in this manner ... the other cannot, I side with the man who holds the date... and that would be Gbluer ... the other man is a copy cat... Had he at least tried to bring Gbluer in on the idea of making kits, had he been part of at least 1 conversation on this forum or with Gbluer by other means in regards to the Slayer exciter circuit it would be a completely different situation ... But he didn't, he crept up behind him and stabbed him in the back.... That's not a Man, That is not a man at all!! and that is very far from being right, I don't care who you are ... that's just plain wrong way to go about it !!! 

Quote from: ramset on February 21, 2013, 05:25:26 PM
Funny thing TOTO
you rattle off names of men dedicated to selfless service to their fellow man ,that spent thousands of dollars and thousands of hours dedicated to open sourcing and sharing their work to make a better world.


And in the next breathe you pat a man on the back who at best is a crafty self serving
money monger.


this man is not one of these men , and the precedent  being set here ,where he makes a cash grab on the work performed by others will hinder "sharing" greatly in this open source community.


the only winners here will be lawyers in the long run as well as suppression of technologies at the patent offices.


and that is the real stomach turner here............


Just one mans opinion


Chet

I totally agree with you  I commented on a draw with a BIG BUT  ( BUT TO THINK OF IT AS  AN OPEN SOURCE FROM THE VERY BEGINNING ...  A WORD OF HONOR  )   noble mans word without hutring other people feeling
As Gbluer has decided to put on his developer kits ... I ll just support him in anyway I can  ... Every inspiring comment from Slayer is an A   in a score card for my part and like a good pat in the back  :)
:) :) totoalas

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/showthread.php?t=4999 (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/showthread.php?t=4999)
Slayer Lighting - Memory lane  yt   toto alas

TOTO
with all respect to Slayer and his present situation .


this highlights a huge hole in the open source concept .
Few things could hurt this open source cause so effectively and quickly as what this man is attempting to do.


I am absolutely stupefied by this!


And then to spit in Slayers face with a foul mouth?
provocative gesture indeed.........

Hi Ramset
I may be misunderstood  maybe my english is not so good  but with all good intentions I am for Open source( meant for the other guy and not Slayer )  as many of us here have longed for
I am sorry if I was misterpreted but I am for Slayer all the way  my comment is just to thank every contributor in the replication and development
no need to rant on me as I am in your side...  as I said totally agree   to respect open source   .......as i am still a newbie to this field
Peace love light   as Skywatcher always say    :) :) :)
Gbluer and others had taught me the level of electronics knowledge based on shared experience bad and good ...and I repeat I see Gbluer a GURU with great respect..  almost all  his builds  I have replicated so no reason for me to say bad words to my mentor      cheers

Chet:

I don't really understand you.  For one thing there is the concept of doing things open source.  By definition, nobody is supposed to be able to stop someone from doing what they want to do with the open source information.  Is this correct?  If you want to make an effort to use open source information for profit, what's wrong with that?  The information is still open source.  For example, doesn't Linux work like that?

Now, you can use an open source circuit to make an efficient LED driver.  At the same time there are hundreds of companies that will sell you constant-current or constant-voltage LED drivers.  So what's the difference?

What I really don't understand is that I am under the impression that that ridiculous "resonant bells" electric water heater was also an open source project.  Am I correct?  Then you were dealing with that man that was supposed to make a film and show the world his magic resonant bell water heater and that was all hush-hush.  It was all a Big Secret and I believe that nothing ever came of it.  I don't recall a single peep out of you complaining in that particular case.

As a general comment, you can't forget that these circuits are high school "science project" material.  Nobody in their right mind would light up their room with one of these circuits.  So what are they really useful for?

Look, supposing that I design and sell a baking soda "volcano" kit.  You buy my kit and show your kids a baking soda volcano.  You don't have to go running around and get all the ingredients, they are all there in one box.  That in itself represents value.

So, should someone go after me because I "stole" the recipe for the baking soda volcano?  The "Slayer Exciter" is much closer to the baking soda volcano than some alleged piece of intellectual property as you seem to think.  It's an oscillator driving a step-up transformer.  You can't get much more basic than that.

Like I said, to a certain extent I feel some sympathy for Gary Bluer.  But honestly I support anybody that can take a simple idea and run with it and make some money from it.  There is indeed a market for people that want to do some "turn key" tinkering with electronics.  That's in contrast to the many sleazy fake free energy schemes where parasitic people suck money out of other gullible people.  That I abhor.  And a great irony here is that I am sure I have seen you in support of these sleazy parasitic people because you don't want to believe that they are bad and you will simply stick your head in the sand and cross your fingers and hope that they are good.  I don't sense any concern from you in these cases where gullible people are getting ripped off.

I will give you another example.  Suppose somebody sells some kits that allow you to make flip-flops.  The kit would consist of a few transistors, resistors, wires, a tiny circuit board and some LEDs.  Wow!  If you bought a few of these kits you could make a binary counter!  Would you have a problem with that?  I am going to assume that your answer would be no.  However, what if we imagine that there was a thread on OU devoted to making transistor-based flip-flops.   Let's suppose that the thread had been running for two years.  Now suppose somebody sells some kits that allow you to make transistor-based flip-flops.  Do you now get all up in arms that someone is daring to sell flip-flop kits?

This is supposed to be a place for the free exchange of ideas where things are open sourced.  If you take an open source idea and you ADD VALUE to that idea by making a turn-key kit and selling it, what's wrong with that?  The simple fact is that certainly there are people out there that would like to play with the stuff, but they don't want to build it themselves, they want to buy a kit.  That's a legitimate market that anybody can tap into.

Anybody reading this can make their own "Slayer Exciter" kits and market and sell them.  But to do that it takes real work.  If you are crafty you might be able to do relatively little work for good financial gain.  As long as you are not lying about your product more power to you.

The bottom line is that somebody got smart and decided to try to make some money selling simple kits.  That person simply put in the effort.  He is never going to turn this into a big business and his comments about "sourcing and securing parts" are comical.  Anybody heard of DigiKey?  Do you know that DigiKey is just one player in the multi-billion-dollar electronics component industry?  There are probably more than 100 viable and still available MOSFETs or transistors that can be used in this circuit.

MileHigh

Quote from: totoalas on February 21, 2013, 07:30:16 PM
Hi Ramset
I may be misunderstood  maybe my english is not so good  but with all good intentions I am for Open source( meant for the other guy and not Slayer )  as many of us here have longed for
I am sorry if I was misterpreted but I am for Slayer all the way  my comment is just to thank every contributor in the replication and development
no need to rant on me as I am in your side...  as I said totally agree   to respect open source   .......as i am still a newbie to this field
Peace love light   as Skywatcher always say    :) :) :)
Gbluer and others had taught me the level of electronics knowledge based on shared experience bad and good ...and I repeat I see Gbluer a GURU with great respect..  almost all  his builds  I have replicated so no reason for me to say bad words to my mentor      cheers

Just to clear things up for Poor Toto, It was Toto who brought this to my attention in the first place in the IAEC forum so I can vouch that they are on Gbluer's side, no matter what the misunderstanding has been, maybe I'm just getting used to reading Toto's way of speaking, but he's a good guy in this ...

looks promising... hope we can able to use it someday.

I'm not picking on TOTO at all ,it was just his big thank you to the "Kickstarter representative"
that thru me for a loop.
Kickstarter represents this man and what he stands for!


That representation has a responsibility and  a liability attached to it...............


@BWiz
If you live near high voltage power lines ,grab a florescent tube just as the kickstarter representative does in his "How to" video , go out under the high voltage power lines and you will get the same effect .


Chet

Thanks chet :) and kultus

MileHigh,

I enjoyed reading your most recent posting (http://www.overunity.com/8977/gbluerslayer-exiter/msg353453/#msg353453) in
this topic.

I'm delighted to see that you are still active in
these discussions where you are able to inject
cogent thoughts and ask meaningful questions.

Presently it seems that emotions are still in a
high state of perturbation and the judgments of
some are clouded.  Hopefully the key
participants in this discussion will give reflection
to your sound reasonings and respond.

MileHigh, I can sum this all up in 1 sentence for you.


The open sourcing of this particular project was intended to be NOT FOR PROFIT, this guy has never had any involvement with the creators of it and has simply stolen the idea ....




seriously is that too hard to understand ?






Ramset, I think he was just being diplomatic as he is not full versed in this argument and I do understand where he was coming from BUT being that TT has NEVER had anything to do with this forum, nor has he ever had any involvement with Slayer (gbluer) himself then he is just a common thief and nothing less, he crept up behind everyone and just took to make him self some coin ... going to be a very sad day when someone does come up with a device that could change the world and no one is willing to back them because of this incident. It  needs to be made clear to the public that this man has never  before  had any involvement with people like us, We do not know him and do not back him, he is a nobody who is just riding the gravy train for a quick buck!   

Quote from: ramset on February 21, 2013, 09:20:23 PM

@BWiz
If you live near high voltage power lines ,grab a florescent tube just as the kickstarter representative does in his "How to" video , go out under the high voltage power lines and you will get the same effect .

Chet

@ramshet

definitely i will try it.

Quote from: Kultus
...this guy has never had any involvement with the
creators of it and has simply stolen the idea ....

What, pray tell, is the "idea" that has been "stolen?"
What feature of the circuit is representative of
anything that is truly unique that hasn't been
"borrowed" from earlier efforts?

Quote from: Kultus
The open sourcing of this particular project was
intended to be NOT FOR PROFIT...

How, absent a Legal Contract or Agreement, can
this condition be imposed?

There seems to be a great deal of misunderstanding
about the legal impact of "intentions" or "conditions"
and how they are to be conveyed.

We can desire or intend nearly anything.  But how can
we make our desires or intentions binding?  There is
a legal process.  Unless we consummate that process
we are without legs to stand on.

The simple fact that Gbluer posted these designs for this circuit to be used in this manner before anyone else is fact enough to be binding, like it or not, if you've read all my post thoroughly, if would be apparent to you that I would be correct, he posted it first it's his, same as in the old days where (and still is) if you mail a design to your self with the postal service, do not open the mail once you receive it, if someone whom knew of your idea then goes to patent it you have proof with a date stamp showing when YOU came up with the idea.


sadly I think your on the wrong side of this argument, and it is very very sad to see forum members of any forum attacking their own, you obviously would be a person like TT willing to "steal" ideas from people, and the very reason why we are going to see a sharp decline of "sharing " on forums like this one .... just because it was not a contract written up by a lawyer does not in any way prove T to be in the right ....     




And let me quote MileHigh on this "As long as you are not lying about your product more power to you." that's right as long as you are not lying, Have you watched TT's videos he claim that his partly lit bulbs is a 80 watt load on the device .... BULL SHIT no it's not, it would be lucky to be 40 watts, anyone who has worked on Slayer exciters knows it takes a shit load of input energy to achieve full lit brightness to a Fluro bulb... I CALL BULL SHIT ON THAT ONE RIGHT THERE!!!!! So he is misleading his backers to thinking he has over unity... he bloody doesn't .... don't take my word for it watch "Mega load test wireless electricity"  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr_svJ29qhQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr_svJ29qhQ)


19 volts @ 500 ma in .... and over 80 watts out .... no .. these bulbs are not fully lit ... there for he is not getting that kind of output ... LIAR!!!!


here is another video where in his description he calls on his own numbers again http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnvsJc6868E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnvsJc6868E)   15v 500MA ... 80 watts out .... No again Bull Shit !! he's not.




Lux meter ... now that would be neat!!

Kickstart is meant to inspire,to help the artist or Creator get his chance ,to get that "dream come true" moment out into the world.
Yes they may encourage the Hacker community in a battle against what they perceive
the little guy Vrs  big guy.


However
There is one thing you can take to the bank,they will Never knowingly Get behind
one little guy stealing an open source and Altruistic artists work and "Brand" recognition and posting it as his own.


Its just not what they Do!


The ball is in this community's court,The evidence has been all over the internet for "YEARS"
You want justice?
Or Will you sit back and let people unknowingly subsidize this type of behavior?

Thx
Chet
PS
Please be aware ... we have standards...
moments of passion towards our cause can get a bit untamed at times we must proceed as the gentlemen we are...


with out any "Nasty"!


8)














   

Kultus:
I'm usually at this public forum to see what I can learn while keeping to myself but I had to post that after objectively reviewing this situation I think your approach is smearing this community.  In a moment of truthfulness in your video rant you state that you don't know TeslaTronix from a bar of soap.  If you are a moral person who is supposedly claiming the moral high ground, why are you telling lies and jumping to conclusions about someone you admit you don't know?

Some of your video lies about TeslaTronix:
"He does not mention Slayer once in any of his videos."
[He does mention Slayer in some of his videos.]
"He probably most certainly does not know what he is doing with this stuff."
[He has designed primary and secondary coils and top loads to improve output performance of exciter circuits.]
"He is probably going to take your money and run."
[Unsubstantiated assumption, defamation of character.]
"He is claiming it is his research and it's most certainly not."
[He refers to Slayer exciter and has researched and designed primary and secondary coils and top loads.)

You state multiple times that TeslaTronix is just a fraud and he is just going to steal your money but you don't provide legal proof of the fraud you are referring to or how you know that he is just planning to steal money.

Some of your posted lies about TeslaTronix:
"So he is misleading his backers to thinking he has over unity".
[His video description states "I should also make note, in case it is not obvious, that these bulbs are not glowing as bright if they were actually plugged into a socket. There are no claims of "overunity" here."]
"19 volts @ 500 ma in .... and over 80 watts out .... no .. these bulbs are not fully lit ... there for he is not getting that kind of output ... LIAR!!!!"
[He only provides wattage rating of flourecent bulbs not the actual power output and states that he does have the means to take accurate measurements and is waiting on some equipment.  Also refer to his video description noted above.]

To make things worse, you aren't satisfied with telling the video lies on your own.  You're asking others to be your accomplice to help you spread them by posting your video rant on their YouTube channels so that you can get your lies out to more people.  If you had a sound argument you wouldn't be resorting to lies or exaggerations and if you were a moral person you would retract them, your actions will define you.

You, GBluer and others who are grasping for straws sometimes cite a health hazard double standard and spin it as if TeslaTronix is selling the Slayer exciter for $300 when it is clear that what is bringing a higher dollar value to the items he is selling are the coils, instructional videos and the kit concept he developed and not the exciter circuit.

You can't go after TeslaTronix in court because you don't have a case as has been well stated by MileHigh, SeaMonkey, Farmhand and allcanadian in their rational arguments.  You instead resort to emotional thus irrational rants.  It looks like GBluer has accepted that TeslaTronix beat him to the idea and effort required to sell kits and is going to do the same after seeing that there is a good market for them, over $25K thus far. 

Good luck to both of them and I hope you take a moment to reflect on how you are going about this and what is best for this community.

YEESH
Did somebody say the "C" word?
Nobody likes that !!


Most entities will go way out of their way to avoid the cost or even remote chance  of a "Court event".


Every body knows that??
thx
Chet
PS
RF ,please don't presume to understand "Slayer's" position here, when you get the wind knocked out of you by a sucker punch it takes a little time for the mind to clear.


the far reaching consequences to the open source community are becoming quite clear.

Quote from: ramset
RF ,please don't presume to understand "Slayer's" position here, when you get the wind knocked out of you by a sucker punch it takes a little time for the mind to clear.


the far reaching consequences to the open source community are becoming quite clear.

What is it that you are not able to comprehend
regarding Open Source?

You wish to alter the terms and conditions of
Open Source?

Are you presuming it to be something it was never
intended to be?

Alternatives to Open Source are:

Creation for its own sake.

Voluntary after-the-fact donations.

Freemium.

Charge for support.

Give away for promotion.


The true Open Source Community gives freely
and expects nothing in return.  Nothing.
It is hoped that whatever is given proves to be
of some value to all users and that possible
improvements will be publicized along with
any correction of errors.

Any who would impose "conditions" or expect
"returns" cannot claim to be of the Open Source
Community.

  I agree with the above statements.   
  Can't we just get back to replications, as such as was the idea, previously.
  Those of a different view point, maybe you are looking at this in the wrong way.
As these forum are not about making money, but about giving free open source information for those that would like to replicate and improve this technology. 
As most of us know where and how the original devices came to be in the first place.
  For those out to make a buck, the opportunity still exist, on E-bay and elsewhere.
No one is going to stop that, especially not by just saying so.
Competition for a better product has always been the American way.
But, cooperation,  is better yet.

Community?


Sir
I propose you are not an active part of the "contribution" end of the open source community.
It would seem with your mind set you are a very willing "taker" of open source .


When you get some mileage in the giving part,perhaps your perspective will change on the taking
part.
And Maybe even something as Basic as Right and wrong will be within your grasp!


Thx
Chet

Yes, Community.

I've been a proud member of the Open Source
movement since 1950 when as a young lad I
built my first crystal set.  At that time it was
not known as Open Source but was just the
normal American way of life.  A nearby neighbor
who was an engineer with Collins Radio Co. provided
myself and other interested neophytes with
technical assistance and parts when needed.

That tradition has been proudly carried on since
that time.  I've never expected anything in return
at any time for the assistance I've in turn provided
over the years.

Greed and the love of money have always existed
but haven't been a problem within the world of
commerce widely until fairly recently.  Very sadly,
this malady has infected the technical community
today causing many to withhold contribution for
fear of revealing something which could deprive
them of first opportunity to make money.

The spirit of giving seems to have been lost.

That this would come to pass was long ago foretold.

Humanity has changed for the worse.

  "The spirit of giving seems to have been lost".

   The fact is that ANY device that is worthwhile will be replicated and sold.
Ultimately this is not as bad as it looks. Nor is there a way around it. We can bitch all we want.
  At least if proper credit is given to where the source of the device comes from, that is about all that can be expected.
  The whole world is watching, and ready to take advantage of whatever is of value. Even if you patent it, other countries will still replicated and sell it.
   The only solution for those looking to protect their "ideas", is to not post them.  Sad!!!
And for those that aren't worried about it, you've come to the right place,  here.

Sorry boys
I can't play now ,
lLater...
Chet

  No need to "play".  Chet.  You are barking up the wrong tree...

Nick
Most of us were taught to live by example,some have been taught "you shall know them by their works"
I look at what this man Slayer does as a ministry of sorts,He teaches Men to experiment, he helps them understand and in general
places himself at a fairly high level of risk,all for the sake of this community,and ultimately to make this a better planet.


so much of this should be self evident,


Here we are building a community that lives by example ,who's resources should be protected so as to nourish this work towards our ultimate goal.


Slayer is one of those resources, stand for him and his research,protect him any way you can!
Unless you have a better model for success or a better example to follow?


later
Chet

  I also agree with those thoughts. And I do support him, all the way, as he has my admiration.
  It is the idea that when one displays ideas, inventions and other personal information on the internet, the expected outcome is that it will be used, in any way that serve the needs of those that get that information. So, if you don't want to give it away, then don't give it, at all.
  It is nothing personal.  I would be pissed off, also. I do understand his feelings.

  This all needs to be worked out between us all, if possible, as it has happened, and may possibly continue happening in the future.

  I'm glad that there are people like you Chet,

   Nick_Z
   

Quote from: ramset
Unless you have a better model for success or a better example to follow?

There is a better way.  Many are aware of it yet few choose
to adhere to it faithfully.

Our weaknesses, our fears and our resentments keep us
always wanting to turn to the right or to the left and
hence we deviate from the path which would take us to
good.

Has Slayer been wronged?  Think about this carefully.

When a poker player voluntarily shows his hand in a
game, it isn't possible later to cry "foul" when the
hand is lost.  Most of us learn that lesson early in life.

Clearly Slayer made an error in judgment.  He expected
something which wasn't possible to expect;  he wanted
others to agree to an unenforceable "condition."  Legally,
there is no way to accomplish that without an "agreement"
which entails the bond of word or the handshake.  Both parties
must agree to any and all conditions.

Slayer may now feel remorse for his lack of understanding
in this matter and he may even feel that he's been betrayed
or wronged.  But in truth he hasn't.

None of us can give something; and later take it back, without
causing problems.  Some mistakes simply cannot be undone.

Let's examine the circuit in question in depth to evaluate
whether it's possible that someone before has already done
it.  The circuit is essentially a Common Emitter Transistor
Amplifier configured as a form of Oscillator Circuit.  Some
will see the configuration as an Armstrong/Meissner circuit
while others may see it as a Hartley circuit.  The oscillation
sustaining feedback is provided by "transformer" action.

The secondary of the circuit, which establishes the frequency
of operation, is a Tesla Resonator or 1/4 Wave Helical Resonator.
This element, including an optional Top Hat Capacitor to enhance
the Induction Field Intensity, all belongs to Nikola Tesla who made
those discoveries long ago.

Whether the feedback is derived from a separate feedback
winding or directly from the base end of the Tesla Resonator Coil
is a choice for the experimenter.  Both methods work well
because both are low impedance and will match well the Base
Impedance of the Transistor.  When the Tesla Resonator Coil
is in operation its base end (or driven end) is its low impedance
end.  The opposite end, where the high voltage develops, is the
high impedance end.

The use of diodes across the Base and Emitter of the Transistor
to offer protection from excessive reverse bias is well established.
It is customary to use  one, two or three series connected diodes
to establish a safe level of reverse bias voltage (which prevents the
Base Emitter Junction from going into Reverse Breakdown or
Avalanche) in order to improve transistor turn-off speed and thereby
enhance circuit efficiency.

So when the circuit is analyzed piece by piece and function by
function it becomes apparent that it is all known technology that
has been utilized by many others in past years.

Of course, we would all like to think that our circuits are new and
unique and have never been done before.  But as we gain experience
we get over that.  It is humbling to discover that what we do today
with transistors has been done many times by others over the past
60 years.  Certain things are new such as leds and chips and mosfets,
but the principles remain unchanged.

Which brings to mind a question regarding a key aspect of the circuit:

Why is it necessary for the primary winding of the Tesla Coil to be at
the bottom end of the Tesla Resonator?

Insted of all you bastards flapping off at the mouth, why don't you put some proof to your words.... show us who and when, with references, was before Gbluer to use this circuit in this manner .... if you cannot do that then your arguments are invalid, at least we have somewhere to point the finger and proof to back up what we are saying....  getting really tired of reading dribble from the peanut gallery.... no matter how long winded you make it or how intelligent your "try" to sound ... it's going to make you any more correct, you've still got it backwards

Quote from: Kultus
...why don't you put some proof to your words....
show us who and when, with references, was before
Gbluer to use this circuit in this manner

Excellent point!  In fact it is a legal requirement.

The "inventor" or "claimant" is charged with the
legal responsibility of conducting extensive research
to verify that the "invention or device" is indeed
new and unique and not simply a copy of "prior art."

This search will be gladly conducted by any Patent
Attorney for a reasonable fee.  But it must be diligently
accomplished before any Legal Claim of Intellectual
Property can be made.

Otherwise it would be Illegal.

  "Insted of all you bastards flapping off at the mouth, why don't you put some proof to your words...."

   Ok,  this Brovin/Kacher circuit along with the two other circuits mentioned previously show many similarities, which also can light bulbs, as well as other functions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz0q0W-ms38

  Most any blocking oscillator which has a large open ended secondary coil such as a Tesla type coil will act as an exciter.
  The word Exciter comes from Dr. Stiffler, which Gbluer has followed for several years.
  The fact that these circuits are slightly different is mainly a matter of degree.
But, all are blocking oscillators, used by several people years ago.
  This does not detract anything from the Slayer Exciter circuit, only adds more value to it, instead.

  NO need to insult...

 

I watched your video end to end ...  and Hurrah hurrah... there is 3 different circuit to the one being discussed... seriously pay attention to what you are about to say before you open your mouth (press enter on your keyboard) ... these attempts are becoming more and more pathetic at trying to disprove what is being said ... 


similarities don't count....


TT's is a direct copy of Gbluers ... so if you cannot find me another person, again with references showing me a date and circuit the same as Gbluers and predates it, then you have nothing ...

Slayer has been such a great member here sharing his research and discoveries in an open source environment I can't believe someone is attempting to rip his ideas off to make a profit.  Perhaps it is legal to do so, perhaps not...I am not an attorney.  It is NOT moral to do so for sure.

What goes around comes around.  Slayer is a great guy and has done a tremendous amount for this community.   I have learned a lot from him, and I thank him for all of his efforts.

Bill

After all that has been said and done
Ou and EF and Iaec had their views read

WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO THE NEXT SLAYER OR NEWBIE THAT SPARKED INTEREST IN the community
Is open source needed to be redefined among members
Aaron has started one on Open Source Issue
Can we start here also
Being public or private in you tube and what steps for non disclosure issue must we addresse in the future   ?????
Just some questions that need your attention

Here is the rest of the story
We are not speaking about a circuit ..........
Kickstarter show cases artists

In this particular circumstance we are talking about a "star" Albeit an undiscovered star. [oh how the world loves that story !:'}
  And this is EXACTLY how to proceed, See in this case there is more to Slayer than a circuit, think about the rest of the story?
Right here right now our vision for the future is being formed
by the men in these forums.
[
A circuit, a piano, What ever you use to make your music !
     
Oh this thing is gonna get some legs............

The world loves a good story
And this is a good one ,it has all the bits and pieces.

Thx
Chet

My first build ever was the Slayer Exciter!
Thank you for sharing your circuits and knowledge! You have helped me a lot in starting on this journey.
As for TT, well, he's digging his own grave...

kultus:
  If you don't see any similarities, it's because you are blindly flapping away. Look again.
Slayer also has several different circuits, not just one. If you really knew what you are talking about you'd see that, but you obviously don't.
  It doesn't matter to us who you think you are, to tell us to shut up, you may as well not post. Nobody on this or other forums wants to hear your comments.
  Do you own homework... better yet, don't come back.

Rodelu
Quote
My first build ever was the Slayer Exciter!Thank you for sharing your circuits and knowledge! You have helped me a lot in starting on this journey.


--------------------------------------------




See that's what some would call gratitude!!,


Welcome to our community,we have a vision for the future .....




Thx
Chet

I'm posting this for the record because this is no small matter.  There is a copyrighted document by Dr. Stiffler that includes a schematic of one of his SEC exciters which clearly proves that the so called Slayer exciter is a very close variation of Dr. Stiffler's SEC exciter circuit.  The document I'm referring to starts by stating "Beginning in 2001 Dr. Stiffler began exploring special oscillators of his design....  This document can't be legally posted and I don't know if there is a link to it but Dr. Stiffler just uploaded a video of a 2 Coil Electrolyzer that includes SEC exciter schematic.  At 3:10 in the video, as Dr. Stiffler goes over the circuit he states "This is a standard configuration for a SEC exciter.".  Over the years Dr. Stiffler has used his SEC exciter circuit in various configurations, this is just the latest:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRk-J6-OeWs

I captured an image from Dr. Stiffler's video of his SEC exciter schematic and have attached it along with GBluer's exciter circuit from page 5 post#66 of this thread, in one of his very few and brief postings about this issue GBluer stated that this was the circuit that TeslaTronix was using.  When I went back to double check that I was accurately posting this information I found that on page 4 post#59 of this thread GBluer posted the following:

"This video is to show how you can use two diodes and one LED for a indicator light for your exiter.
It helps with tunning and hepls protect the A.

Dr Stiffler uses it in his SEC 18 series and it also works very good with this circuit."

GBluer was clearly and openly following and using Dr. Stiffler's work.  In the following video, GBluer starts by stating that Dr. Stiffler uses the two diodes and LED to make an indicator light.  Dr. Stiffler's primary reason for using the two diodes and LED at the base of the transistor is not to provide an indicator light, GBluer later removed the LED in his experimental circuit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naN-cLCgDyY

Not only did the basic exciter circuit and the two 1N4148 diodes at the base of the transistor come from Dr. Stiffler's circuit but GBluer also used the same MPSA06 NPN transistor, 1 megohm resistor and referred to it as an exciter circuit.  GBluer only removed the series LC tuning circuit that was in parallel to the two diodes and LED in Dr. Stiffler's SEC exciter circuit and experimented with different configurations of the same circuit. 

Knowing this, how can GBluer be objectively considered the original inventor of this exciter circuit?  As SeaMonkey and others have rightly pointed out, the burden of proof is/was on GBluer to prove that he was the original inventor.  I think it is reasonable to conclude that he wouldn't have made it through the patent process if he had tried.  GBluer can't have it both ways: Imply he is giving away the exciter circuit that he is experimenting with by sharing it in the public domain and also try to retain the rights to something he never proved was his to begin with.

GBluer has remained very quiet about this.  Instead others, especially Kultus (DesertExperimenter), have represented him very badly with some verifiable lies and exaggerations that I detailed in my post#210 on this thread.  How about we not attack someone before fully investigating the facts and not try to put a stop to someone, like some might argue 'Big Oil' would do, by using lies, exaggerations, double standards and safety issues.

Let's give well deserved credit to Dr. Stiffler, whose work this originates from and credit the others as variations of his exciter circuit when applicable.

RF
You Highlight some facts ??


Here's a good one, Folks like Stiffler come here to help the community ,{he thought we were a community}
he shares parts of his work hoping to inspire men of like mind ,as well as teach.


Its a fragile relationship but it has been moving along.


Unless I missed the part where Slayer has been "TRYING" to financially benefit at the cost of Stifflers good will?

TT brings a" brick"[to the fragile] and some change to this community,sometimes Change is good !

it can really shine a light!!


THX
Chet
PS
I must note this whole concept seems like another language to the "TAKERS"....
Taking is Oh so easy sometimes ....
However,the "givers" do pay attention !!

Quote from: Rfacts on March 01, 2013, 04:37:06 AM
I'm posting this for the record because this is no small matter.  There is a copyrighted document by Dr. Stiffler that includes a schematic of one of his SEC exciters which clearly proves that the so called Slayer exciter is a very close variation of Dr. Stiffler's SEC exciter circuit.  The document I'm referring to starts by stating "Beginning in 2001 Dr. Stiffler began exploring special oscillators of his design....  This document can't be legally posted and I don't know if there is a link to it but Dr. Stiffler just uploaded a video of a 2 Coil Electrolyzer that includes SEC exciter schematic.  At 3:10 in the video, as Dr. Stiffler goes over the circuit he states "This is a standard configuration for a SEC exciter.".  Over the years Dr. Stiffler has used his SEC exciter circuit in various configurations, this is just the latest:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRk-J6-OeWs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRk-J6-OeWs)

I captured an image from Dr. Stiffler's video of his SEC exciter schematic and have attached it along with GBluer's exciter circuit from page 5 post#66 of this thread, in one of his very few and brief postings about this issue GBluer stated that this was the circuit that TeslaTronix was using.  When I went back to double check that I was accurately posting this information I found that on page 4 post#59 of this thread GBluer posted the following:

"This video is to show how you can use two diodes and one LED for a indicator light for your exiter.
It helps with tunning and hepls protect the A.

Dr Stiffler uses it in his SEC 18 series and it also works very good with this circuit."

GBluer was clearly and openly following and using Dr. Stiffler's work.  In the following video, GBluer starts by stating that Dr. Stiffler uses the two diodes and LED to make an indicator light.  Dr. Stiffler's primary reason for using the two diodes and LED at the base of the transistor is not to provide an indicator light, GBluer later removed the LED in his experimental circuit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naN-cLCgDyY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naN-cLCgDyY)

Not only did the basic exciter circuit and the two 1N4148 diodes at the base of the transistor come from Dr. Stiffler's circuit but GBluer also used the same MPSA06 NPN transistor, 1 megohm resistor and referred to it as an exciter circuit.  GBluer only removed the series LC tuning circuit that was in parallel to the two diodes and LED in Dr. Stiffler's SEC exciter circuit and experimented with different configurations of the same circuit. 

Knowing this, how can GBluer be objectively considered the original inventor of this exciter circuit?  As SeaMonkey and others have rightly pointed out, the burden of proof is/was on GBluer to prove that he was the original inventor.  I think it is reasonable to conclude that he wouldn't have made it through the patent process if he had tried.  GBluer can't have it both ways: Imply he is giving away the exciter circuit that he is experimenting with by sharing it in the public domain and also try to retain the rights to something he never proved was his to begin with.

GBluer has remained very quiet about this.  Instead others, especially Kultus (DesertExperimenter), have represented him very badly with some verifiable lies and exaggerations that I detailed in my post#210 on this thread.  How about we not attack someone before fully investigating the facts and not try to put a stop to someone, like some might argue 'Big Oil' would do, by using lies, exaggerations, double standards and safety issues.

Let's give well deserved credit to Dr. Stiffler, whose work this originates from and credit the others as variations of his exciter circuit when applicable.

RFacts the only thing in your post your right about is I am a big fan of Dr Stiffler and his work.
If you would have taken the time to build the two circuits before you posted you would see they are nothing alike.
The only similarities they have is how they both excite the environment  around them hence the name exciter.
The way the transistor is triggered, the coil arrangement the only similarities is the name exciter and how they excite the environment.

PS Chet and others Thank You for your kind post.

slayer007:

« Reply #234 on: 3/1/13 at 06:23:42 AM »
"If you would have taken the time to build the two circuits before you posted you would see they are nothing alike.  The only similarities they have is how they both excite the environment around them hence the name exciter."

I purchased SEC exciters from Dr. Stiffler when he made them available.  I'm also trained in electronics, but you don't have to be to see the obvious 'similarity' between Dr. Stiffler's SEC exciter circuit and yours.  It is more accurate to state that when comparing these exciter circuits and components, they are not 'similar' they are the same:

Dr. Stiffler's SEC Exciter                                              GBluer's Slayer Exciter
(single transistor circuit)                                             (single transistor circuit)
Emitter has direct DC path to (-)                                      Same
Base has one megohm resistor to (+)                              Same
Collector has DC path to (+) thru L2 coil                          Same
Two diodes and LED between base and emitter             Same (LED optional)
One MPSA06 NPN transistor per previous video              Same
Two 1N4148 diodes per previous video                           Same

When comparing the component connections of your single transistor exciter to Dr. Stiffler's SEC exciter you will find that they are exactly the same.  All you did was connect two unterminated coils, one at the emitter and one at the base, to Dr. Stiffler's SEC exciter circuit and removed the series LC tuning circuit from the transistor base.  Are you claiming that the Slayer exciter circuit which you publicly posted is your invention because of how you connected two unterminated coils to Dr. Stiffler's SEC exciter circuit? 

Since you acknowledge that you have followed Dr. Stiffler's work and are a fan, I don't understand why you have not realized that the exciter circuits are the same with a variation in coil configuration.  Maybe you aren't familiar with Dr. Stiffler's other SEC exciter configurations since he does copyright his documents.  Now that Dr. Stiffler has publicly posted the schematic of the latest configuration of his SEC exciter circuit anyone interested can see the standard SEC exciter that he has configured in various ways over the years, he only posted his latest performing a unique electrolyzer function which is running against Faraday's first law.

« Reply #234 on: 3/1/13 at 06:23:42 AM »
"RFacts the only thing in your post your right about is I am a big fan of Dr Stiffler and his work."

Not only did I provide you the above list of all that I had right about your exciter circuit being the same but wasn't I also right about the verifiable lies and exaggerations that Kultus (DesertExperimenter) has been spreading about TeslaTronix, regardless of whether you agree with TT's actions or not?

I don't know you but you seem like a decent guy pursuing a similar goal and I hope you are successful.  I'm sure you would agree that credit should go where credit is due, so I don't think you would knowingly claim something that was not yours.  I have learned more from Dr. Stiffler than I have from anyone else on the internet through his forum posts, videos, previous web site, downloaded/purchased Scribd documents, and the SEC exciters with documentation that I purchased from him.  I'm addressing the facts about your exciter circuit that came to light due to the Kultus irrational rant video.  I was primarily annoyed by the smear campaign that others have resorted to in trying to support you.  If it wasn't for Kultus and his recruitment of accomplices to spread his lies and exaggerations I may not have found out about this controversy or posted here to begin with. His slanderous videos are still running on various YT channels, he could have supported you without resorting to smear.  If anyone running his 'TT Fraudster Assassination' video thinks they have a winning argument why don't they just present the facts in a way that helps more than hurts you?  I would take the same stand if someone attacked you or someone else in the same irrational manner.

If you thought you were the original inventor of this exciter circuit and you were planning to retain rights to it why didn't you go through the patent process to prove you were the original inventor?  You don't come across as credible about this when you don't acknowledge what any objective reviewer can see as being the same between these exciter circuits.  I'm a rational man, if I get something wrong I'll stand corrected but I do expect supporting evidence.

ramset:

Do you prefer to be a part of a subgroup in this community that turns a blind eye to inconvenient facts?  Why are you attempting to switch the argument, is it because you can't argue the facts about the exciter circuits or do you not care to know?  Kultus took me down this road with his lies and exaggerations and statements about the Slayer exciter circuit.  I don't know TeslaTronix and think he didn't handle this right but he has a legal right to pursue his business venture and it does not change the facts I've addressed about the exciter circuits. 

This is primarily a scientific minded community, so why ignore or dismiss facts just because they don't help your goal or cause?  Or even worse, why allow someone to make up their own facts by resorting to lies, exaggerations and double standards.  This is what annoys me the most.  Your subjective bias comes through when you let others do this without directly addressing them publicly, especially since you are an outspoken 'hero' member.  You don't seem to have a problem with directly addressing those that are not on the same side of the issue.  The reason I first posted here was because I was not going to be part of this subgroup, I addressed Kultus directly about his easily verifiable lies and exaggerations and he didn't respond to disagree.  He could have supported GBluer without resorting to smear which I think has hurt him more than helped him.  Do you agree with his irrational approach of mixing in lies to see what would stick and titling his smear video 'TT Fraudster Assassination' when he didn't have all the facts about the exciter circuit?

If you pick and choose facts here, you're likely to pick and choose facts over there, and soon this mind set creeps into experimental work.  This is the kind of thing that turns off members and visitors as they read through forums.  To hold someone like Kultus to a different standard just because you are on the same side of this issue is disgraceful.  I would rather keep to myself pursuing the facts and applying them consistently, learning and contributing what I can, but I couldn't just turn a blind eye to this kind of irrational behavior.  How can wrong be done to an open source project if the circuit in question did not belong to the claimant to begin with?  Wouldn't you want to make sure you got it right when valid questions are raised?  This is no small matter for various reasons.  As I've stated before, if I get something wrong I'll stand corrected but I do expect a well reasoned argument with convincing facts and not general 'feel good' 'holier then thou' type comments about altruistic causes.

One should not jump to conclusions before they have all of the facts and should not assume that they know more than the other, nor should they make bad assumptions about the intentions of others.

RF
Are you an attorney whanabee looking for a clear path thru Slayers Art form and life long example of A life lived and dedication to serving his fellow man?


What    ?    you want some one to tell you its all right to Steal from the givers and say F---You?


I see that you have asked for tutorials on how to build certain things here ?
Are you a bird of a feather?


Sir ,How you choose to live is your free will.Do not think for an instant that you could ever justify the actions of these Takers from this Good Samaritan.


You do you    Bud!


Fair thee well..............


Chet   

There you have it, ramset may not only prefer to be a member of the subgroup but may want to be their leader and spokesperson.  I alerted about jumping to conclusions and 'holier than thou' response but ramset still couldn't help but provide an irrational rambling diatribe that includes bad assumptions.  Not what you would expect from a helpful supporter.

RF
If I lived in a world where men were working against an adversary that let their children die in wars
and all was about money and control.


If I needed Help in that struggle fear not RF you would be the last to be asked for help.


You don't see any problems at all with what TT has done ,as well as you print lies to bolster your claim.
Chet wants to lead What?


...........
You have a passion ,one which seems to be oblivious to the plight as well as right and wrong!


I am sorry I can not sit and talk with you,and I have no time to waste typing.
If you want to help in this struggle spend some time Giving......


And less time whining!


Thx
Chet

Only One Comment Which Might Stop This Banter;

Attn: GBluer.

Remember the email exchange between you and I? Remember when I told you (or anyone else) that I would not be upset with the Usage of the Term 'Exciter' as I doubted I really had a right to saying it was anything special I could claim. Over a hundred years plain Oscillators have often been called 'Exciter', although what I did ask and YOU Agreed is that you would always give me credit for the design of what I call a SEC Exciter and the design which IS the basis of all of your work, with the silliness of removing a stable tuning system and replacing it with two environmentally biased air coils.

Would you like to see again theses emails where you agreed and thanked me for allowing such?

All I ask is credit for initial concept which dates (documented) back to the mid 1990's.

All I want not is for this BS to STOP. Give everyone credit where credit is due and stop worrying about ego...

Rfacts,

You've researched the issue well and state
your opinions with clarity.

Ramset is revealing himself to be either
deeply confused or simply an agitator
in the mold of a Troll.  His arguments are
emotion based and are designed to stimulate
controversy and stir the pot.  His tactics are
straight out of the Play Book;  Accuse others
of the very thing you do yourself.  Clumsy
Cover.

Sadly, this has become the "norm" for most
of the discussion groups.

So A precedent is set every one is happy !!
Contribute here


http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/398893778/teslatronix-tesla-power-for-the-masses?ref=category (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/398893778/teslatronix-tesla-power-for-the-masses?ref=category)



Oh and Just for Clarity I look to lead nothing here.


Oh And Seamonkey thx for all your support to Dr.Stiffler and his Circuits!!


THx
Chet

Just to input an opinion from one of many interested readers, I hope slayer007 would change his mind and continue sharing his research. There's a great deal of inspiration that develops from sincere interest in the research and it further develops great ideas that further develops the research.  Slayer007's exciter is an example of this because it's based on Dr. Stiffler's exciter, Yes?

Profiteers will try to make money on anything and everything, nothing new, right?

A means to discourage the profiteers would be to create your own individual Research Web Page and always relate your research to that Web Page/Website and if you'd like to offer anybody, interested, a packaged unit or kit you can do so on your Research Web Page/Website.

Anyway, I see great ideas generated from these forums and out of interest will even try replicating some of the ideas for my own personal advancement in learning, etc.

Thanks for everybody's continuing research experiments and the YouTube videos, they help a lot too, and I just hope people like slayer007 and LaserSaber continue to share their experiments and ideas.

BillXX
The free energy open source community [ :-[ ] has clearly chosen a path
SeaMonky [Old school Ham Chap and long time Dr.Stiffler supporter}
and his buddy Newbie RF are blazing the new look for Free energy open source community here


TRUE Their fully supporting this new fellow TeslaTronics that no one in these open source free
Energy Forums ever heard of ...


He must make them quite proud !!


http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/398893778/teslatronix-tesla-power-for-the-masses?ref=category (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/398893778/teslatronix-tesla-power-for-the-masses?ref=category)


Make sure to sign up and contribute !!


Any one who is just not ecstatic over this new wonderful business model for success is just a troll and has a hidden agenda ..........


CYA..........

ramset, I don't agree with that.

I replicated a circuit concept by jonnydavro and lasersaber and added a modification to it and posted my results in another forum. It's a matter of continuing advancement of ideas and sharing those ideas that inspires further advancement. Yeah, I guess you could say I have an agenda... to further a learning interest.

My sincere apologies, I removed the circuit diagram I posted because it's not related on-topic with Slayer007's Exciter concept and related circuit design. My point was only to show that we can create new designs based on other people's design concepts yet give deserving credit to the originators of those concepts.

Billxx
You have just seen how the open source community has advanced in the past,A gentlemen
Emails another and asks permission to use his work [at a certain level] to help teach this work and advance the open source concept [NOT TO TAKE IT AND SELL IT}.




Thats the old way ,when men treated each other with respect,when scientists could be called and asked to contribute to a "community" that understood the concept of sharing towards a common goal.


Slayer tried to explain things to this boy Teslatronics and was told Quote "F---Off"






New day and a new way..........


Thx
Chet
ps
Bill ,This will sort itself out, this community is filled with good men like you who respect
each other!!

To everyone who keeps saying I told Gbluer to "fuck off". Him asking me to remove the kickstarter, and me telling him "no" is not "fuck off" At this point however, it is well deserved as long as that retarded video is floating around (and condoned by GBluer himself). What a joke. 

Quote from: Teslatronix on March 03, 2013, 01:40:24 PM
To everyone who keeps saying I told Gbluer to "fuck off". Him asking me to remove the kickstarter, and me telling him "no" is not "fuck off" At this point however, it is well deserved as long as that 'retarded' video is floating around (and condoned by GBluer himself). What a joke.

I put out a call for more 'retarded' videos.  ;)

Mags

Sir
So just for Clarity,At the time of your Slur ,you must have known that Slayer would be getting a vid produced by a fellow in Australia Kultus which in turn would be assisted  by others from all over the planet?


You are most intuitive...can you pick a pony for me in the 3rd race at belmont??


Amazing ...I had no idea!!
thx
Chet

ramset keeps further exposing his irrational nature as everyone can see from his posts, this leaves no opportunity for a calm well reasoned discussion.  He repeatedly jumps to false assumptions and conclusions to suit his agenda.  ramset avoided responding to these primary questions directed at him because they are a death blow to his irrational ramblings:

"How can wrong be done to an open source project if the circuit in question did not belong to the claimant to begin with?  Wouldn't you want to make sure you got it right when valid questions are raised?  Do you prefer to be a part of a subgroup in this community that turns a blind eye to inconvenient facts?"

ramset is doing more harm than good to this community and he is oblivious to it.  His significance diminishes with every irrational post, his unsubstantiated comments mean nothing.  I've made two assertions here: 1) Dr. Stiffler deserved the credit for the use of his SEC exciter design and 2) There is no need for a smear campaign against anyone.  If you think you have the facts on your side then make a well reasoned argument to support and not hurt who or what you are standing up for.

As I previously stated I do not know Teslatronix and didn't think he handled this right, I have not contributed nor supported his business venture and do not plan to.  I clearly stated that I apply the facts consistently, some are being so subjective and biased that it didn't sink in.  Credit should go where credit is due, this applies just as much to Teslatronix as it does to GBluer.

There are three parties central to this controversy whose words settle this issue.  Most importantly we've already heard from Dr. Stiffler who has confirmed my assertion that he deserves the credit for the use of his SEC exciter design.  We've yet to hear from GBluer and Teslatronix giving Dr. Stiffler his due credit.

There are some fundamental principles and morals involved here.  Our actions define us.  Is ramset, kultus and others who've been supporting and defending GBluer now going to support and defend Dr. Stiffler for not getting his due credit?

This is my final post about this, I've addressed my concerns and confirmed my assertion that Dr. Stiffler deserves the credit for the exciter circuit in question.

"One should not jump to conclusions before they have all of the facts and should not assume that they know more than the other, nor should they make bad assumptions about the intentions of others."

RF
Cap
Lets look at one question and try to understand what your actual intent is here?
The protocol for our open source community when it comes to working under others is outlined in post
above by Dr.Stiffler


You ask for permission to use the open source research of others so you may instruct and teach others of like mind. at no point is there ever to be money involved ,the knowledge is to be taught to enhance the understanding to others.
Its a commitment, it involves "trust" "ethics""morals" a value system based on service to the community,one which the scientist who is helping usually gets a good feel for before hand.


When Slayer was made aware of how this agreement [betwixt him and Stiffler]was being prostituted for money by TT, he attempted to notify him [TT}of how this was an ongoing open source project involving many members of this community with many many hours of their time  personal resources and effort.


I am sorry that the concept of sharing the scientific research of others does not fit your Model
for Open source.




thx
Chet

Quote from: Ramset
When Slayer was made aware of how this agreement [betwixt him and Stiffler]was being prostituted for money by TT, he attempted to notify him [TT}of how this was an ongoing open source project involving many members of this community with many many hours of their time  personal resources and effort.


I am sorry that the concept of sharing the scientific research of others does not fit your Model
for Open source.

Prostituted?  Well, one thing is certain.  Your
choice of verbiage certainly spices up the
conversation!  Obviously just a tad bit of
hyperbole there?

Prostitution, when analyzed with precision,
does entail an agreement, or contract, where
service is rendered at an agreed upon price.
It is a transaction which generally results in
one of the two parties being quite satisfied. :P

Sometimes even both. ;) :) :-X

Sadly, it is frowned upon in most locales. :(

You did mention "sharing" and that is
encouraging.  The Open Source Community
is really all about sharing.  Unreservedly.

Open Source is not for everyone...

ramset:

I credit you for being more levelheaded in your last comment so I'm willing to followup with this post.  I must say that it is very difficult to believe that you can be that clueless so are you intentionally attempting to change the argument again?  I was very clear and concise about the assertions I was making, I simplified and numbered them for you.  I have not made any assertions about an open source model.

The assertion I made about the Slayer exciter circuit was this: 1) Dr. Stiffler deserves the credit for the use of his SEC exciter design.  If you still don't get this you need to reread my posts, it's the reason why I compared the exciter circuits in detail and addressed GBluer directly.

You acknowledged that Dr. Stiffler deserves the credit for the Slayer exciter circuit design when your comment included the following: "When Slayer was made aware of how this agreement [betwixt him and Stiffler]..."

But when GBluer responded to me about giving Dr. Stiffler the credit he stated: "If you would have taken the time to build the two circuits before you posted you would see they are nothing alike."

You also made a comment that included the following: "Its a commitment, it involves "trust" "ethics" "morals" a value system...".  It has been pointed out that you and some others have lost credibility by the use of double standards.  If it involves trust, ethics, morals and values you need to answer the questions directed at you instead of avoiding and deflecting.  When presented with verifiable facts why did you and some others turn a blind eye to the fact that GBluer would not give the deserved credit to Dr. Stiffler and instead went as far as stating that the circuits were nothing alike?  Here is an integrity and credibility check for you: Do you agree that GBluer and anyone else that publicly uses or markets the Slayer exciter should give Dr. Stiffler credit for the use of his SEC exciter design?

Do you not get that this is why Dr. Stiffler addressed GBluer directly and reminded him about GBluer's agreement to give Dr. Stiffler credit for his SEC exciter design when publicly sharing the Slayer exciter?  It is absurd for you to try to twist the facts around and attempt to spin it as if Dr. Stiffler's post was about open source protocol.  This repeated attempt to avoid addressing my assertion directly further diminishes your credibility.  I've made my intentions perfectly clear, give credit where credit is due.

RF
Cap
You are completely avoiding [at all costs it seems} the actual point, and quite obviously you are not
a member here.


As this sharing progress's thru the open source research community ,fellows that work along this
intellectual trail ,will often change or modify or play and build and for the sake of "Stamping"
this beautiful little piece of art with their personal contribution [changes and such]
will often put a name of whatever to the effort that they feel they have contributed?


Pal you are so far off course here with your support of  Teslatronics .


You are not one of these guys that can work this way [not for money]
nor are you showing any inkling towards this concept.


It is a very pure and tenuous agreement not a contract


but she has just been taken out the door ,and you are leading the way,she has never been your way,nor was she meant to.


A most sincere and pure agreement between research scientists and this community.


But thats OK it hardly ever happens around here ,men like you who are completely baffled by the whole concept have been doing tesla tronics work for a long time.


Doing the right thing to you is coming in here and attempting to make this whole thing into
some sort of joke or debate?


I will not debate you on this ,the entire concept is so foreign to your nature you can't even recognize it when its staring you in the face ""Why can'T slayer acknowledge Stiffler's contribution???.


You obviously don't work this way,[not an open source researcher]


you are clueless to what keeps this flowing..............


A cheap lawyer whanabee arguing why its OK to Be a Pimp to a very pure and simple concept beyond your grasp.


Its not for sale bud!! its not yours if that's the way you feel,you either help us to take care and nourish this concept or move on ....


Its Open source research and nothing will kill it faster than a greedy man............


Thx
Chet

I have little idea why I am making another post here, yet sometimes the pot does indeed boil over.

GBluer 'HAS NOT" Honored the agreement that was understood in the emails of over a year ago. I do recall a YT Video where he stated the design was based on my original work (whatever that means as all is original. I brought the emails to his attention in case he had forgot about the contacts and how upset I was with him for using the term SEC Exciter.

SEC Stands for 'Spatial Energy Coherence' and is not of my invention (the term itself) yet I believe originated from the Optics Field and later was applied to other areas. Looking this up on WiKi might be worth ones time.

My usage of SEC is to coin the relationship of 'Coherence' Point, where energy amplification is apparent.

Now again if this is not clear. I was being nice and giving GBluer an (OUT) if you will. I initiated the the emails to him and we then communicated a basic agreement on what I felt was indeed from me and what was not.
                                 
So lets recap, SEC or 'Spatial Energy Coherence' (the term) is not of my creation, nor is the word 'Exciter'. Te circuit and application of a vast number of variations applied to a vast number of applications and being called 'SEC Exciter' is indeed from me.

I left the Forums just for this reason as did I shut down my web site. The Deamons grew to many to be logical to me to continue, period.

I have no idea who this other fellow is, although I did see on YT of his and considered the whole thing a Toy Setup with little practical purpose.

Anyway, NO! it was not a Gentlemans agreement by someone asking permission, I got MAD and after what WAS (I thought) an agreement, the issue should have been settled.

One last thing, Anyone who uses the terms SEC Exciter is in my view claiming Coherence, so you see a tone of people are misusing the term and making believe it is in some way a spin off of my work(S).

Dr Stiffler
Your post here goes a long way towards clarifying some very important issues to the open source  community and the arrangement with scientists who chose to offer help.


Unfortunate your having to close up the Venue,so many young minds have been inspired by your example .[Many still are]


The possibility to learn and think outside the box.


Thx
Chet

Quote from: DrStiffler on March 04, 2013, 11:40:22 AM
I have little idea why I am making another post here, yet sometimes the pot does indeed boil over.

GBluer 'HAS NOT" Honored the agreement that was understood in the emails of over a year ago. I do recall a YT Video where he stated the design was based on my original work (whatever that means as all is original. I brought the emails to his attention in case he had forgot about the contacts and how upset I was with him for using the term SEC Exciter.

SEC Stands for 'Spatial Energy Coherence' and is not of my invention (the term itself) yet I believe originated from the Optics Field and later was applied to other areas. Looking this up on WiKi might be worth ones time.

My usage of SEC is to coin the relationship of 'Coherence' Point, where energy amplification is apparent.

Now again if this is not clear. I was being nice and giving GBluer an (OUT) if you will. I initiated the the emails to him and we then communicated a basic agreement on what I felt was indeed from me and what was not.
                                 
So lets recap, SEC or 'Spatial Energy Coherence' (the term) is not of my creation, nor is the word 'Exciter'. Te circuit and application of a vast number of variations applied to a vast number of applications and being called 'SEC Exciter' is indeed from me.

I left the Forums just for this reason as did I shut down my web site. The Deamons grew to many to be logical to me to continue, period.

I have no idea who this other fellow is, although I did see on YT of his and considered the whole thing a Toy Setup with little practical purpose.

Anyway, NO! it was not a Gentlemans agreement by someone asking permission, I got MAD and after what WAS (I thought) an agreement, the issue should have been settled.

One last thing, Anyone who uses the terms SEC Exciter is in my view claiming Coherence, so you see a tone of people are misusing the term and making believe it is in some way a spin off of my work(S).

Sorry Dr Stiffler, But I never referred to this circuit as a SEC Exciter. It was also refered to as a Slayer Exciter because the way it excites the enviroment around it.
Not one of my video have I ever refered to this as a SEC Exciter.

Quote from: Ramset
you are clueless to what keeps this flowing..............

It's looking more and more suspiciously like
this may be your "Day Job." 8)

Ramset=Agitator for Pay >:( ; Disruptor Extraordinaire :D

Keeping this "flowing" is your assignment. :-X

Quote from: slayer007
It was also refered to as a Slayer Exciter because the way it excites the enviroment around it.

The "excitation" of the near environment
is in truth the Induction Field produced by
the Tesla Resonator.  This is a characteristic
of all Tesla Coils.

Ahhh
SM
I see you are a follower of Dr.Stifflers work!!
Very good that qualifies you completely!!


Regarding the day job comment,
I wish...
Men like yourself and RF AND TT doing everything within your power to destroy relationships like this between
contributing scientists and this community ensures the flow remains clogged up.
Your latest Comment on the Tesla tower as it applies to Dr.Stifflers work and what is actually
going on here is another good example of how this work gets sidetracked and stiffled all the time.


Very Nice Job SM


Or did you think Slayer corresponds with the DR. to light bulbs from Tesla towers?
Thats your interpretation of Whats going on here?
Thats the research you believe is being discussed here??

[size=78%]Thx[/size]
Chet
PS
I see your friend is doing very well with his pound of flesh,the investors remain clueless
but Hey thats the american way and apparently it is also Kickstarters way!!


http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/398893778/teslatronix-tesla-power-for-the-masses?ref=category (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/398893778/teslatronix-tesla-power-for-the-masses?ref=category)


No wonder we are so cherished around the world ,it is our terrific example!!
Every man for himself !!!

Quote from: Ramset
Men like yourself and RF AND TT doing everything
within your power to destroy relationships like this
between contributing scientists and this community
ensures the flow remains clogged up.

Quite the contrary!  Those within the Community are
free to cultivate whatever relationships with whomever
they may choose.

The flow of "information" only becomes "clogged up" when
certain parties choose to either withhold details or decide
not to release anything at all.  Of course that is their right
and no-one should feel compelled to do anything they do
not want to.  Whether or not to reveal research data is
completely up to the experimenter.

No experimenter should be made to feel that they have any
sort of obligation to reveal anything at all to the community.

For my own part, I do not rely in any way upon anything which
is revealed in any forum by any experimenter.  While the present
discussion is somewhat interesting because many are re-discovering
electromagnetic phenomena, there is nothing new here.  Some of us
have been playing with this stuff since the '50s.  Thanks to the
advances in modern semiconductor devices it has never been easier
to make low powered Self-OscillatingTesla Coils.

I must add, however, that Dr. Stiffler has indeed made some very
interesting and important discoveries which make unorthodox use
of established technology.  He has revealed considerable detail about
his work and may (or may not) reveal more.  But he should in no way
feel that he is obligated to reveal anything at all.

Quote from: Ramset
Comment on the Tesla tower as it applies to Dr.Stiffler's
work and what is actually going on here is another good
example of how this work gets sidetracked and stiffled
all the time.

That was only for the benefit of any who may be wondering
what makes the Tesla Coil tick - what accounts for the
intense induction field which extends out some distance from
the Tesla Resonator.  It may (or it may not) have anything at
all to do with Dr. Stiffler's work.  Only those who are confused
or who do not understand Tesla Resonance would be side-tracked.

I'd recommend that all experimenters build at least one small
Tesla Coil (without high voltage spark-gaps) to explore the
remarkable properties of low powered induction fields.

Those who provide reasonably priced kits to make this sort of
experimentation possible may be doing a great service to the
scientific advancement of the Community.  Those who charge
an Arm-and-a-Leg for their kits are striving to exploit the gullible.

Experimenters must learn to be economical.  There is no need to
wastefully spend a lot of money for anything to further their
understanding.  Those who cannibalize old electronic devices to
salvage useful parts have the very best idea.

slayer007:

I recalled you having some SEC exciter videos when I read through Dr. Stiffler's last post.  You do have some from a few years back that include SEC or SEC Exciter in the video titles.  I took a look at a couple that were replications of Dr. Stiffler's SEC exciter work.  I also viewed a short one with a title that drew my attention: SEC Exiter wireless power

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU2V-tRWR-E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU2V-tRWR-E)

This video does not mention Dr. Stiffler in your video narration, title, description or posted comments - don't know about all others.  Unintended, but could Dr. Stiffler be referring to all videos not just the ones with Slayer exciter?

I was mainly following up with you because you've stated your position about not using the term 'SEC exciter' and your use of the word 'exciter' but why haven't you clearly addressed whether you think Dr. Stiffler deserves any credit for using the SEC exciter design in the Slayer exciter circuit?  I've previously asked you about this and Dr. Stiffler brought this to your attention on post#240 and post#255.  I'm frankly puzzled by this, my only intention is to give credit where credit is due.  I've closely followed Dr. Stiffler's work, I respect him and his work and I'm grateful for what he has openly offered and sold and what I have learned. 

These are the events that recently occurred which originally led me to ask questions about who deserves credit:
-----
1. 'TT Fraudster' video was posted on numerous YT channels which claimed that TT is not the inventor, not the creator and has stolen all of GBluer's work, that GBluer is not mentioned on any of his videos, and that TT is claiming all of GBluer's research.

2. There was an outcry from some GBluer followers that the Slayer exciter was stolen from GBluer and is being marketed to make money when GBluer had made a conditional statement that it was for private non-profit use when he publicly shared it.

3. GBluer claimed credit by posting that he originally posted the Slayer exciter circuit which TT was using on OverUnity forum > GBluer(Slayer) Exciter > Page 5 (post#66).
-----

Based on my knowledge and experience with Dr. Stiffler's SEC exciter and variants I looked at the Slayer exciter circuit that you posted on page 5 of this thread and could see it was a SEC exciter design.  So I wondered why Dr. Stiffler was not mentioned by you or TT.  It's really that simple.  This is a reasonable question to ask and the longer you go without providing a clear answer the odder it looks.  Who or what could be hurt by giving credit where credit is due?

Are you taking the position that Dr. Stiffler deserves no credit for any part of the Slayer exciter circuit that you referred to on post#168>(post#66) of this thread?

To the recently created entity with the agenda of Taking others open source research  and selling it
at online venues to unsuspecting contributers.

known as RFacts



We are discussing outsiders such as yourself coming in and taking the open source research of others and selling it for their own benefit!


Which intern leaves the community completely void of contribution at the Scientific research level
and ultimately places many more people at risk of personal injury or harm do to playing instead of following safer protocol.
you RFacts represent a very selfish and self centered "wheres the money" path typical to whats wrong with your whole Lawyer whanabee mentality.


You have no place playing judge here ,you have zero credibility defending teslatronics money grab
for decades of opensource research that was simply not for sale ....


Where is your credibility here,your friends ask you to find the holes so Kickstarter won't pull the
the funds for the theft project??
how much are they paying you??


A 3rd grader could make a better argument,,,you come off as a 12 yr old making up stories and
trying to twist history into some
BUT I WANT IT MOMMY story...........


Get over it bud ............


Or I tell you what take that silly Cap... off and show us who you really are if you say you have followed  Stifflers work here ?
men that hide behind fake monikers come accross as children ultimately because they really are children.
you most certainly act like an un greatful little brat.......


face up mr. or talk to yourself!!!!!!!!!
Slayer
this child is a meddling putz he is so clueless to how this works that he is completely oblivious to the fact SEC exciter is synonymous in this community for ""EVER"" with the DR. and by naming it that WE KNOW IT!!
I could stack appreciative fellows from here to allentown PA .
you never put a price to this you always shared your hard work,I am proud to have you here!

I hope you can get this strait with Stiffler,but this BOY does not care for any of this he looks to
help his friends in Allentown.......

Or perhaps he stalks the forum for other opportunities ??


Of one thing you can be certain


he does this community no good nor does he wish it well.


the waterchimp  just might be a good guy.[short sighted tho]

ramset can't help but to turn a blind eye to inconvenient facts.  He is the self appointed blind eyed leader and spokesperson who can not carry on a well reasoned discussion.  His significance diminishes with every irrational post, his unsubstantiated comments mean nothing.

When reading through ramset's irrational ramblings and diatribes ask yourself this:

1. How does driving away someone like Dr. Stiffler, by not giving him his due credit, help the open source community?
It can only hurt it by totally losing Dr. Stiffler and maybe others like him who see what is going on here with GBluer withholding the acknowledgement of his obvious use of Dr. Stiffler's work and not giving him the credit that's due.

2. How can acknowledging the obvious fact that the Slayer exciter circuit in question is using Dr. Stiffler's SEC exciter design help Teslatronix when he is supposedly using the same Slayer exciter circuit?
Teslatronix would need to acknowledge and give the same credit that's due to Dr. Stiffler.

3. How can an open source community hold together when double standards are allowed to openly go on and are even practiced by some 'hero' members?
There was an out cry from some that Teslatronix was using GBluer's work with out giving him credit and it would be justified if that is the case.  But where is the out cry that GBluer is using Dr. Stiffler's work and not giving him credit when that is in fact the case?  Money is not the main issue when there is a moral and fundamental principle involved.  It is a more serious offense but money does not have to be involved to be considered a 'taker'.  Anyone can confirm for themselves by reviewing post#235.

4. What is more helpful to the community: objective, well reasoned, and fact based discussions or irrational, 'holier than thou', biased, and unsubstantiated rants?

"One should not jump to conclusions before they have all of the facts and should not assume they know more than someone they don't know, nor should they make bad assumptions about the intentions of others."

I See Now
I have worked with the disabled before ,spent many hours of my life their also.
and That work is an ongoing part of my life.
I am sorry this is all very hard to put right in your head, Many others have come before you 
with similar issues.
As an open source forum the doors are open to all and as reasonable people we must recognize
this.


Thank you Rfacts for "your facts"
With all sincerity


Chet


PS


Seems a lesson to all ,if we say we want to help a scientist and welcome him into the community
please make sure you maintain a correspondence with that scientist and always do the right thing.
make sure he /she likes how things are moving forward,don't expect them to baby sit the work.

Always be accountable to you word !

We do not sell open source research ,that's no part of the "deal" to share!
This kinda crap will keep springing up until the end of days unless we excersice Brutal honesty
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/398893778/teslatronix-tesla-power-for-the-masses?ref=c (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/398893778/teslatronix-tesla-power-for-the-masses?ref=category)

RFacts the video you showed is a replication of Dr Stifflers sec 15 exciter, so yes the video was called sec exciter.

When I first noticed the slayer exciter I was working with a air core joule thief, And noticed when the end with the resistor was disconnected it would stay running.
I then added a resistor so it would auto start and later on I added a diode to help with performance.
Here is a comment from Dr Stiffler at the EF forum when he was trying to help me with a self runner.
@Slayer
Depending on you circuit which is very different than mine, it is hard to compare results, yet I will give you some spec's.

With a 3F cap, the charge rate is ~100mV/Sec. This is self limiting as the voltage gets to a certain point into my Exciter the current leaves linear increase which pulls back
down the charge. The circuit will then oscillate between to to set points.

With the voltages you are seeing I think the diurnal effect will kill it off.

The basic slayer exciters origins were from a joule thief.

Quote from: slayer007 on March 05, 2013, 10:07:03 AM


The basic slayer exciters origins were from a joule thief.

This is exactly correct.

Bill

It would be most interesting to see the
waveshape and frequency analysis for
the three circuits:

1.  Typical Joule Thief

2.  "Slayer" Exciter

3.  Self-Oscillating Low Power Tesla Coil

The waveshapes at the respective Bases of
the individual transistors;  the waveshapes
at the Collectors of the respective transistors;
and the waveshape at the output terminal
of each respective circuit; in addition to the
frequency of oscillation of the respective
circuits.

Perhaps a comparative evaluation would
shed light on the matter.

What specifically about the "Joule Thief" is
considered to be the "origin" of the "Slayer"
exciter?

Oh Wet One....
It is a path ,in this particular case things began for Slayer [and many others] playing with the jule thief
yes I know "its been around Forever " .


So what?? ,Well the open source research community [the one that shares and leaves the door unlocked]  Plays with this little "machine" quite a bit,
some folks who started perhaps on similar paths at one time in their life wander in and share their ideas and "what Ifs" with this fun loving group of "what if" fellows.
Sometimes a scientist that recognizes the camaraderie and friendly sharing attitude of this group
will think he see's something special in them [the group] and share his own little secrets!
The door is always open of course and sometimes others standing around are not so benevolent as the group mind set ,they percieve them as naive, How come all the other houses on the block have their doors locked [copy this rite that patent yada yada yada...] and these guys leave the door open??


All their stuff must be free??? I Don't have to ask then ....wow no locks on the door???
thats the secret here!!! there is no secret it belongs to all ,just take and run!!


@@ Chet interjects "Oh what is that word they all like to use" its on the tip of my tongue??
.....................
Oh thats right OPEN SOURCE
its all Open source stuff


"free stuff for the taking""



Welcome to our world ,there are no locks here.
They say you can tell what a man really is when you see what he does when  no one is looking..........[or so he thinks]


So to answer your round about "whats all the fuss about"
there's nothing special here??


Just like your friend Rfacts and others
You can't see the forest for the trees..........


Its not about the stupid thousand year old circuit
its all about the people..




[size=78%]Later[/size]
Chet
PS
here is the Taker now,no one here knows him he just wandered in one day and saw a chance to take


[size=78%]http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/398893778/teslatronix-tesla-power-for-the-masses?ref=c (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/398893778/teslatronix-tesla-power-for-the-masses?ref=category)[/size]


Its all about the people ,and what they do.........[or not]


Oh, I brought Rfacts a present [a peace offering]

Quote from: Ramset
Its all about the people ,and what they do.........[or not]

Aye, and so it is!

And what would you propose as a solution?

We can either have "hissy fits" when things
happen or we can act with maturity.

It's not called "The School of Hard Knocks" for
no reason.

We live and we learn.  We can let anger and
resentment dominate our lives or we can
choose the path of sanity and serenity.

Do unto others as you would have them do
unto you.  No matter what.

No sense crying over spilled milk.

Yes of course we must forgive,to carry such a bitter pill is not good for anyone!


What to do?


The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results


I suppose we're all a bit crazy,however this ain;t no game ,many lives could be saved
much suffering could be stopped.
Open source research is not having a good day here!


I suppose we'll actually have to discuss what to do as a group?
Or Not??
thx
Chet

 quote:
  "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"

   Yes, and I think that we've discussed what we can do as a group, already.

   Nice to see all the people back on this thread, now if we could just get back to experimenting with Exciters, and see some new and improve results, that would be very nice, also.

   Nick_Z

Sorry people but this is why I will not be showing any more of my circuits on line.TeslaTronix- Tesla Power For The Masses by TeslaTronix &mdash; Kickstarter (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/398893778/teslatronix-tesla-power-for-the-masses)He is selling the slayer exciters, kits, and also selling my circuit diagrams.I tried to get kickstarter to stop the project but no emails from them yet.I tried to talk to TeslaTronix many times. His response was to F off.


i always thought free energy was all about the word.... FREE ......  and yet here you are talking about copyrights and patents , rights and yours !!!!  MONEY MONEY MONEY !!!! JUST GIVE IT TO THE WORLD  !!! YOUR LEGEND SHALL LIVE BUT YOU WONT ......  think of the year 3013 ..... the gbuer device that saved us all ......

Um
Nick
Where did we discuss that??.Sorry I must have missed that?


Or is that why I seem to be the only one upset by all this?


Oh and this fellow Innovator above?


Please share what the "group" decided here?


Thx
Chet
PS
To the soggy ape
When its not your milk that gets spilled ,its very easy to criticize .....
Also quite easy to judge from your side of the fence.....


I see lots of similar thefts on Kickstarter against individual business people
however this would be a first against a community dedicated towards helping the world!
sorta like stealing from the collection plate at church.


Nah Its much worse than that .........

Quote from: Innovator
...think of the year 3013 ..... the gbuer device that saved us all ......

Unfortunately, there is nothing about the "exciter"
which will save us all.  The "exciter" is more than
100 years old and what has come from it thus far?

Exploitation is not new and it is not going away soon.
It is part and parcel of this World in which we find
ourselves.

Releasing details of experimentation into the Public
Domain via the various Forums has proven to be a
convenient means of communication, but it is not
without risk.

Any who would wish to maintain control over their
"creations" should think twice about revealing their
"secrets" via public Forum.

In the old days such details were shared between
interested parties by means of correspondence;
today we call it "snail mail."  Slow but secure.

Today the electronic equivalent may be private
messaging or selective emailing.  Share your
work very selectively only with trusted associates.

The sharks are everywhere.  What is needed is to
be a little bit smarter than the sharks.

All that's lost is the public recognition and the "ooohs"
and "aaaaahs" of the neophyte crowd.  There won't be
much public stroking of the ego to build one's reputation
or a faithful following of blooming experimenters who look
up to the "guru" when it's all done privately.  But that is
the price that must be paid for security over and control
of one's work.

Once any idea is released publicly in a public forum it's
effectively been lost.  Any may do with it as they please.

The cat is out of the bag.

The hen has flew the coop.

It's all water under the bridge.

Crying over spilled milk changes nothing.

 
   
   "Once any idea is released publicly in a public forum it's
effectively been lost.  Any may do with it as they please."

   This response has been voiced over and over again, and is not just someones personal attitude.

    Ramset:
   Your being upset has not changed ANYTHING!!!  And your insults have not helped, either.

   Although I wouldn't call the information posted on any forum "lost", some of us may experience it in that way. But, many more have gained much from it, also.
Making money from this information and devices is not what most of us are here for, although there is nothing wrong with that, either. Nor will we change the whole world to suit your ideals.  The only thing that will change is the attitude of expectation.
That is what most of us have already said in many ways, too many ways.

  It's just the way it is, and will continue to be, whether we like it or not.
Sorry if you don't agree.

  Nick_Z
       
 

Why would it ever change Nick?
you most certainly seem just fine with all of this??



I know "Lets all get back to work",Tell yah what Nick !


Go get all your Stuff ,Call Dr.Stiffler up or anybody else who has shared their work here
and tell him to just get over it there's nothing we can do?


let me know when you'll be starting that open source research build thread ??


--------------------


SeaChimp


Not workin for me Bud ,Your attitude is very short sited ,Just because you think These guys working together are wasting their time [nothing there] or we have to comply or hide because there are men amongst us that would steal candy from a baby?


Just lay down and let them wipe their feet on us??


Nah ,What we do is Charity work,I personally do this to contribute a positive Model to the world
not a weak or powerless one.
If we don't stand up for right and wrong ,   wrong will take its place every time.


SHAME ON THOSE BOYS FOR STEALING FROM CHARITABLE MEN !!


Shame on Kickstarter for the role it now plays in THIS Open Source research world !


Who knows maybe there indifference to right and wrong and their "its all about the Money trail"
attitude will bite them right in their wallet.
some types of men only pay attention to their wallet,not the needs of other less fortunate people?


Chet

slayer007:

I'm replying to you to continue a reasonable fact based discussion and appealing to your better judgment about giving Dr. Stiffler his due credit.  Dr. Stiffler is not asking you to give him credit for all of your work, only what obviously came from his SEC exciter design.  You are coming across as no longer respecting Dr. Stiffler's knowledge and work and his contributions to the open source community.  I'm sure you must realize that there are many others that have more closely followed and benefited from what Dr. Stiffler has shared over the years.  He has shared some of his most valuable information on documents and on YT, so you don't have to be a member of forums to benefit from his copyrighted and open source contributions.  His new 2 Coil Electrolyzer videos are the most recent examples.

You further inflame this issue by misrepresenting Dr. Stiffler's response when you quoted him out of context in your post #265 when you replied back to me.  You appear to think that Dr. Stiffler's post from the past contradicts his recent post #240 and post #255 of this thread. 

This post is long but necessary to put your assertion in its full true context and in chronological order which paints a totally different picture than what you misrepresented.  In the circuit Dr. Stiffler responded to, you are using a germanium PNP transistor CONNECTED BACKWARDS and you later gave up on this circuit on post #452.  The first post listed below is your description of your circuit which Dr. Stiffler would obviously consider to be different than his and it also includes your YT video about it:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/4999-joulethief-sec-exciter-variants-14.html (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/4999-joulethief-sec-exciter-variants-14.html)

03-23-2010, 09:37 PM  slayer007  Senior Member  Post #403
I was inspired by Dr Stiffler's last video.
I wanted to see if I could get my circuit to self run also.
I'm using a old PNP transistor a R 591-7419.
I have the polarity for the circuit reversed and I also have the emitter and collector connected backwards.
Running it backwards it will draw as low as 30 uA while it's running.  This way the fields very weak but it still has enought
power to run and charge it's self.  When I first started the circuit it only had 116.4 mV in the capacitor but it's slowly charging it's self.
At the end of the video I switch the transistor back around and the led will dimly lit off 136 mV.
Here is the video.
YouTube - Self Running Exiter (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usjQ89KmVaA)
-----

Here is your post which Dr. Stiffler first responded to:

03-24-2010, 02:42 PM  slayer007  Senior Member  Post #407
This might not be that easy to replicate.
I messed with it last night and lost the effect I had going.
I let it run all night after messing with it but it lost most of the voltage in the
capacitor.  And it quite working some time in the night the voltage in the cap was 100 mV
when it stoped.
I recharged the capacitor this morning to 1 volt.
It's running right now but it's slowly loosing power.
The field is a lot stronger now and I'm having a hard time getting the current draw back
down in the uA range.
@Xee2 this is Dr Stiffler's channel he now has two video's of his self runner.
YouTube - MRH2O2's Channel
-----

Here is Dr. Stiffler's first effort to help you, along with encouragement to keep at it:

03-24-2010, 02:51 PM  DrStiffler  Senior Member  Post #408

(Quote Originally Posted by slayer007 #407 was removed from here because it is included above.)

Don't forget that if you are actually in SEC mode that there are diurnal effects, this has
been known for some time. Also temperature will affect the operation. To cold it will not
work, to hot it will not work. It is very hard to get it in the right mode. On an 18-1e it
is maybe just 1/16 turn either way on the tuning cap and its gone.
Good luck and keep at it.
BTW I am now driving a full LED panel in SP SEC mode.
-----

Here is your second post which Dr. Stiffler gave you a second response to:

03-24-2010, 08:33 PM  slayer007  Senior Member  Post #412
Well I finally have it running itself agine. 
I worked in it for a few hours gave up on it then came back and it started running on it's
own.
So don't give up Lidmotor.
I'm still using the old PNP transistor connected the right way but I have the base
resistor disconnected.
I did a tap start with it got it going then disconnected the resistor from the base.
I have a meter on it to measure the current it's using 10 to 30 uA.
When it was started there was 160.1 mV in the cap it is now up to 168.9 mV.
This time I won't touch it for 24 hours unless it stops agine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is Dr. Stiffler's second effort to help you and this is all you posted on this thread which clearly took it out of context:

03-24-2010, 01:06 PM  DrStiffler  Senior Member  #414

(Quote Originally Posted by slayer007 #412 was removed from here because it is included above.)

@Slayer
Depending on you circuit which is very different than mine, it is hard to compare results,
yet I will give you some spec's.
With a 3F cap, the charge rate is ~100mV/Sec. This is self limiting as the voltage gets to
a certain point into my Exciter the current leaves linear increase which pulls back down
the charge. The circuit will then oscillate between to to set points.
With the voltages you are seeing I think the diurnal effect will kill it off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is your response thanking Dr. Stiffler for helping you out and for all that he has done:

03-24-2010, 09:20 PM  slayer007  Senior Member  # 415

(Quote Originally Posted by DrStiffler  #414  was removed from because it is included above.)

Dr Stiffler thank you.
The circuit I have been working on is in my garage and it is not heated.
That would explain why it quite working on me last night as it was very cold last night.
This time I won't touch it at all till in the morning and see if it last all night.
Doc I can't wait to see your next video this is getting Very Exciting. (Not Worthy Smiley)
Thanks for all you have done. (Cheers Smiley)
-----

Taken in full context the above posts provide more proof about how you closely followed and praised Dr. Stiffler's work and in no way states that Dr. Stiffler considers the Slayer exciter in question to not use his SEC exciter design which you clearly implied by your post.  Just as important to point out, and anyone objectively reviewing your post would realize this, the Slayer exciter at that time (not your abandoned Self Running Exciter circuit) is not the same one that you posted on page 5 post #66 of this thread.  This was the one I compared to Dr. Stiffler's SEC exciter on my post #235 because you designated it on post #168 of this thread.  You've made numerous modifications to the Slayer exciter but haven't tracked them with version or series numbers.  It was rare that you openly included a schematic in your YT videos or attached them to your posts.  On a comment that you made on your 3 year old Self Running Exciter video you referred someone who expressed frustration about you not including schematics 2 months ago to your YT 'Exciter with indicator light' video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naN-cLCgDyY&list=UUu5aMQt_fDsayuhUKueE9Ig&index=42 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naN-cLCgDyY&list=UUu5aMQt_fDsayuhUKueE9Ig&index=42)

In your description and narration of this video referring to two diodes and LED transistor protection you state "Dr Stiffler uses it in his SEC 18 series and it also works very good with this circuit."  This is a clear example of some of the credit Dr. Stiffler deserves and which you used to acknowledge.  Why do you no longer give Dr. Stiffler credit for this or anything else that came from his SEC exciter design?  In your recent response to me on post #234 about the SEC exciter and Slayer exciter circuits you stated "...they are nothing alike".

This is my reply to the post you addressed to me.  I primarily wanted to point out that it is not fair to take someone out of context in an effort to justify your actions and that your credit to Dr.Stiffler has changed which is frankly puzzling to me.

Fair thee well.....

Hi Guy's, I think it's time to define the term " Exciter", because I "excite" the primary of all my transformers.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/exciter

Definition (my bold)

QuoteDefinition of EXCITER

1
: one that excites
2
a : a generator or battery that supplies the electric current used to produce the magnetic field in another generator or motor
b : an electrical oscillator that generates the carrier frequency (as for a radio transmitter)
Examples of EXCITER

<many of the exciters of the so-called "tax revolt" were actually campaign workers for one of the gubernatorial candidates>
First Known Use of EXCITER
14th century

And from Tesla's patent. Page 2 lines 7 to 15. Attached snippet
http://www.google.com/patents?id=m7R9AAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q&f=false

Basically it's a common word that anyone can use to describe a device producing certain effects.

No one owns it period. Exciter, exciter, exciter. I'll use the term to describe any device I think it pertains to.

In my opinion any "self running" effects are likely due to man made electrical noise in the environment or from the ground connection.

I can charge caps to a few volts with a static Tesla coil just with the secondary ground connected and with the primary or a tickler coil made into an output
and that's not even using germanium diodes. No big deal ground noise will do it. Going into the country won't help convince anyone either because the same type of electrical noise can be created anywhere on the planet with a battery and an inverter or switching circuit connected to ground, or better still a powered transmitter can be taken anywhere a receiver can be taken. Taking an exciter to the countryside to show the effect is still there means little unless the place can be tested for man made electrical noise.

EDIT: For example an electric fence will produce a large spike and ring down on the output of a ground connected resonant transformer.

Take a deep breath folks and let it all go, then think for yourselves, do the research and the experiments if you are really interested you will find a way, then you will have knowledge
gained form your own experiences.

Cheers

P.S. If some people want to give praise or give thanks to certain other people for sharing their work then that's all well and good, but don't
expect others to do what "you" "think" is right and proper and especially we should not use "coercive persuasion techniques" to try to force others to conform to our views.

Look up coercive persuasion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coercive_persuasion .

QuoteMartyn Carruthers has the following definition: "Coercive persuasion attempts to force people to change beliefs, ideas, attitudes, or behaviors using psychological pressure, undue influence, threats, anxiety, intimidation, and/or stress. (Coercive persuasion has been called mind control and brainwashing.)

I should point out again, that from my conversation with Gbluer, the issue is not that this guy is selling something, but rather than he is purposefully leaving out that it is an opensource design, and where to get it, so as to garner money from people for sending them paper copies of the design, also it seems he is, or was in one of the videos, insinuating that the design was different than anything on the web and that to get said circuit design you pretty much had to come to him.

Most of the people donating that I see, are doing so to get that kit of coils and parts, or just sending this guy money so he can do more research. but the few who are being fooled into thinking they are buying a design that can not be gotten from the opensource community are going to be pretty pissed I bet when they do stumble onto these pages. Also the discussion further lead where I see that Gbluer is going to try to rectify this by putting something up that money given will be understood that it is for parts and labor, and where to get the info freely if you want to source your own parts and build everything your self.  I hope I am right, because that seems like it was originally intended by most who provide things as opensource rather than try to close source it.

Quote from: Ramset
SeaChimp


Not workin for me Bud ,Your attitude is very short sited ,Just because you think These guys working together are wasting their time [nothing there] or we have to comply or hide because there are men amongst us that would steal candy from a baby?


Just lay down and let them wipe their feet on us??


Nah ,What we do is Charity work,I personally do this to contribute a positive Model to the world
not a weak or powerless one.
If we don't stand up for right and wrong ,   wrong will take its place every time.


SHAME ON THOSE BOYS FOR STEALING FROM CHARITABLE MEN !!

Ramset,

You can stomp your feet, cry, whine, yell
and holler all you want;  but until you propose
a plan of action which meets the demands of
the legal process you'll accomplish naught.

Claiming that something has been stolen from
the Public Domain is very difficult to prove
since there is a legal definition for "stealing"
and "theft."  Is that what has truly taken place
in this case?

Or, is it simply a case of unrealistic expectations
and carelessness in this Dog Eat Dog World?

There is a legal judicial process which can be
resorted to in order to claim damages but the
process demands at the minimum an enforceable
contract or agreement between the belligerent
parties.

Your efforts to create a groundswell of complaining
forum members will accomplish nothing legally.

You're beating a dead horse.  You've lost whatever
battle you've conceived in your own mind.  You have
no legal ground to stand on.  There has not been any
real theft.

At some point Boys must grow into Men.

Nothing has been lost.  Nothing is at peril.
The Open Source Community is a worthy cause
but it is not for everybody.

Those who want to maintain control over their
work have no choice but to seek legal protections
in the appropriate manner.  Contracts and/or
Agreements which contain Terms and Conditions.

Of course, you have the ability to research these
things and discover what should have been done.
But it is more fun to rant and rave, stir the pot,
emote the drama while striving to rally support for
a lost cause.

But fear not; in time even the eyes of babes are
opened so that they might see.

Sm
You don't do charity work
I do, Lots and lots of charity work
Thousands of hours and tens of thousands of dollars!


This seems like more of a play time thing to you, some thing for an old man to sit around and feel
impOtent.


Nah
people  suffer because this work gets suppressed people die because this work gets suppressed!
this ain't some pissin contest Bud.


You can talk until your teach fall out of your face about legal this and copy rite that.


Tesla tower crap and old circuit nonsense .


Fact is these fellows don't sign on to make money ,they sign on to try and do whatever they can to make a difference,to set an example.


To be selfless,not selfish!!


please don't respond here ,I am thru beating this dead horse......


The scientists that chose to share here have gotten the clearest of messages that could ever be sent .......
Its against the laws of business ........
enter at your own risk!


thx
Chet

Farmhand:

You made some valid points and I considered how they might apply to my post.

I agree that no one owns the word exciter, Dr. Stiffler has stated this also.  In a previous post, I pointed out to GBluer directly that he had stated his position about this but not about why Dr. Stiffler didn't deserve any credit for the use of his SEC exciter design.  So in my last post I only raised the question of why not call it the Slayer Joule Thief because GBluer stated to me that one of the reasons he was not giving Dr. Stiffler credit was because the joule thief was the origin of his Slayer exciter.  I can see how this could be misinterpreted as questioning his use of the word exciter, so to simplify and avoid this distraction I decided to remove this question from my post.

You also make a valid point about not using "coercive persuasion techniques".  I'm really annoyed when double standards are openly practiced and mostly allowed to go on unchallenged.  My intention is to persuade with the facts not to 'force to conform', but one should avoid pressing a point in a way that will cause one to come across that way if it is not one's intention.  It will also detract from one's primary point of contention.

I kept both of your valid points in mind when I went back and modified my last post which will help make it a more focused response.  It is a response to a post GBluer addressed to me, in it I primarily wanted to point out that it is not fair to take someone out of context in an effort to justify your actions and that in his responses to me his credit to Dr. Stiffler had changed from the past with no explanation.

Quote from: The Architect on March 07, 2013, 02:15:43 PM
I should point out again, that from my conversation with Gbluer, the issue is not that this guy is selling something, but rather than he is purposefully leaving out that it is an opensource design, and where to get it, so as to garner money from people for sending them paper copies of the design, also it seems he is, or was in one of the videos, insinuating that the design was different than anything on the web and that to get said circuit design you pretty much had to come to him.

Most of the people donating that I see, are doing so to get that kit of coils and parts, or just sending this guy money so he can do more research. but the few who are being fooled into thinking they are buying a design that can not be gotten from the opensource community are going to be pretty pissed I bet when they do stumble onto these pages. Also the discussion further lead where I see that Gbluer is going to try to rectify this by putting something up that money given will be understood that it is for parts and labor, and where to get the info freely if you want to source your own parts and build everything your self.  I hope I am right, because that seems like it was originally intended by most who provide things as opensource rather than try to close source it.

Well said sir.  For example, if someone was selling a JT circuit that they claimed only they had, and was selling the parts also, I could see some folks wanting to get everything they needed at one place but, to suggest that that was the only place to get this circuit would be fraud, in my opinion.

Quote from: Ramset
please don't respond here ,I am thru beating this dead horse......

Charity work is good and all who endeavor
along such lines are to be commended.

There are many who are in need of our support.

SeaMonkey


It is my belief the men that share here do charity work!


I know that many hate certain words and phrases ,but I truly believe that it is better to give than receive.


Something happens when Men think this way,something even more amazing happens when we "act" this way.


If you want to change the world
Be that change......live by example !!


And if you have nothing special going on in your life today,if you find that you may have some time
to spare.
Go out and do something special for someone,


And don't get caught!!


You seem a good man SeaMonkey ,If I have offended you in any way ,it may have been some misguided Zeal!!


I apologize !


Thx
Chet

I have not been offended in any way.

It is not necessary to make any apology.

I knew you were a man of good heart and
character.

I come bearing an olive branch, on this public forum- as a sound, reasonable individual (quite possibly for the last time, depending on the next series of responses to this thread).  I wish to reference those individuals who claim to have originated the circuit design, which it seems, all those involved parties really wanted in the first place. More conflict in this situation is not good for this project as a whole.

You make it seem I lurked these forums, found this thread, and off I went. That is obviously not the case.

I actually had Gbluer's videos featured on teslatronix.com until  DE released his brilliant inflammatory masterpiece.

The project will remain on Kickstarter for its life span, thus promoting the name. This can be beneficial for all, and I do wish to give credit where it is due, but this is not possible until individuals with sound judgment come to the right conclusions.

Teslatronics
You Inspire ,you represent exactly what this community stands for ,thank you so much for all you have done for this work,and this world.


I see your Kickstarter notes the funds will be used to continue your ""research!""


Any thing we can do to further your research in the future ,just come in and Grab it, no one will say a thing................


Its all opensores.....


Thx
Chet

Wow.


let me ask a simple question? What does open source mean to you?


In my definition it means to openly develope an idea so that all can benefit from the researched ideas and techniques. If you or anyone Didn't want the idea to be used in an open source way then why come to an open source venue?


There is nothing wrong with anyone taking the idea and improving on that idea and releasing a kit for others to learn from. Isn't that exactly what the open source venue is for?


Teslatronics is doing exactly what the open source venue was designed to do. And he is being very honest with what he plans to do with the proceeds and that is to further the techniques and designs that others have started.


No one has rights to the idea because it was shared openly on this and many other forums. It is public domain and needs to stay that way. As long as Teslatronics doesn't try to get exclusive rights to the design then he is doing nothing wrong with his attempt to further the ideas by releasing a kit for others to learn from and taking the proceeds to further his own research is a damn good way to further this technology.


If Slayer or others feel slighted by this then maybe he shouldn't have brought it to the open source community. Maybe Slayer and others should have protected thier rights by patenting the idea before hand. Oh wait he couldn't because Tesla was the first to have the idea and since his own rights have been in the public domain for tens of years now NO one could patent the device.


Please stop berating the man for taking this to the next level. He is only doing what is natural to the open source community. The only ones making this community look bad is the complainers about this process. If you don't like this method then maybe open source is not your bag.

Here is a definition of open source from open source.org

"1. Free Redistribution
The license shall not restrict any party from selling or giving away the software as a component of an aggregate software distribution containing programs from several different sources. The license shall not require a royalty or other fee for such sale."

Even though this talks about software it is applied to evrything open source. This is a standard amongst the community and it is taken very seriously.

On the home page of this forum it clearly states this is an open source forum so lets keep it in that spirit.

Quote from: Teslatronix on March 09, 2013, 03:53:28 AM
I come bearing an olive branch, on this public forum- as a sound, reasonable individual (quite possibly for the last time, depending on the next series of responses to this thread).  I wish to reference those individuals who claim to have originated the circuit design, which it seems, all those involved parties really wanted in the first place. More conflict in this situation is not good for this project as a whole.

You make it seem I lurked these forums, found this thread, and off I went. That is obviously not the case.

I actually had Gbluer's videos featured on teslatronix.com until  DE released his brilliant inflammatory masterpiece.

The project will remain on Kickstarter for its life span, thus promoting the name. This can be beneficial for all, and I do wish to give credit where it is due, but this is not possible until individuals with sound judgment come to the right conclusions.

@Teslatronix

Please understand that I'm speaking from the peanut gallery on this issue. Your project on kickstarter may have had greater potential if you had posted your actions first or even approached Slayer007 with a your idea so that he might have had an opportunity to either encourage you or possibly look at it as an opportunity that you could both share and, who knows, Dr Stiffler too. You might have also noticed that Dr. Stiffler also raised an eyebrow over this issue too because both these guys have an actual research interest.

May I ask, and others too may be interested, if there's a possibility that somehow your venture could be somehow able to promote the active research interest by Dr. Stiffler and Slayer007? There may be phases of their research that actually needs funding?

I don't know, the concept of encouraging new interest and giving credit to those actively involved in the actual research and furthering the research seems to be such a great and creative idea, but, it can only be successful if it can be done in a manner that is equitable to all and kudos to those that can come together on it.

Again, I'm only speaking from the peanut gallery of interested learners, we normally don't say much we just enjoy the learning experience.

Jib
I suppose a better question would be what does research mean to you?
open source is the excuse that was used to grab the work of many members here collate it all into an advertising campaign for personal gain and tell the people whose work was being used to go Fu@3 themselves when they tried to explain.


then the same salesman is telling folks contributing at kickstarter that the only place to get this info is to buy it from him and help him with his research?? {NOT ONE MENTION OF THESE OPEN SOURCE COMMUNITIES AND THEIR YEARS OF SELFLESS WORK!!!}


Research involves EXTREMELY benevolent behavior at this level ,it requires tons of effort on absolutely no resources ,a group effort
sometimes with the aid of scientists that share ideas and proprietary information to this benevolent community.


If this is the next level to you [taking the work from a community you never helped in any way and telling them to go F themselves when they try to explain],obviously you are a business man and this makes perfect sense to you.


Thank you for clarifying the profoundly obvious!.


Chet


.

jbignes5,

You've covered the intent of Open Source
quite accurately.

The concept did originate with computer
programs, or software, in order to make
the "Source Code" freely available to the
World with no restrictions.

The Source Code is written in a high level
computer language which is easily modified
by any who have sufficient skill.  But once
the Source Code is compiled into Machine
Code (Freeware) the program becomes very
difficult to modify or enhance.

The whole purpose of Open Source is to encourage
as many as may be interested to analyze, debug,
innovate and otherwise improve a basic set of ideas.

The Electronics Hobbyist Community has shared
ideas and circuits in a similar manner for decades.
Circuit ideas have been freely disseminated without
any requirement for "credit" or "ownership" or "payback."

Sadly, in this age of instant communication via the
internet, certain experimenters have entered into
the Free Dissemination Community who seem to want
to cling to "ownership" claims or who expect perpetual
"recognition" for some idea.  Ideas, which in nearly every
case, are not truly new or original but re-dos of the work
of others long before.

So the Camp is now divided:

The original group remains dedicated to free
exchange of ideas without any limitations,

and

the new breed who wish to impose limitations
in order to retain "rights" or "claims" to
ownership and recognition.

I suppose it is a classic example of Human Nature.

Some people just do not want to "let go" of what
they consider "theirs."

SeaMonkey


I suppose it boils down to what is at stake,the consequences of the actions?
Here I offer some personal perspective.


One of the things I do with my life is try to help the less fortunate among us,specifically handicapped children and their families.
I have often wanted to enlist the aid of others from this community to help with some of the more specific challenges,  some of this work would have definite commercial value.

The challenge being how to keep people like teslatronics and all his many supporters , from taking this work and running off to start a  "RESEARCH" business?

How does a group perform open source  research and protect it from people like this?


The consequences are far worse in the example of Teslatronics ,To stifle Open source research this way is to  steals from people in this world that can't even get a clean glass of water [5 billion] .
never mind the fact that they have no voice here........


How do you define what is appropriate behavior  when peoples lives actually depend on the work??


I am not talking about getting your video game to get more "lives" or your phone getting more Apps,


We are discussing work that could save lives!!,Change lives!! Truly needy lives !!


Patents, copy rights, fences, at what cost??
nobody here that is actually working to desalinate sea water or bring energy to places that
don't have it,to warm the homes of the less fortunate ,put food on tables where famine and drought
are ravishing the land.


Nobody here working towards that goal gives a hoot about patents and copy rites
Patents have proven to be a waste of time in this venue.
Going for a patent on an OU device is like handing a man a stick to beat you with.


Gotta go..............

Chet

Then again why complain because someone is doing work with the information we give them. That's like giving candy to a baby then saying but you can't eat it. Just sit there and look at it.


Who cares what Teslatronics is doing with the information. He is at least doing something to further the research in this area. What have you done besides claim he has violated Slayer or anyone else. It is Teslatronics putting the kits together, it is Teslatronics who has found a venue for this free information. We are researchers and if no one picks up the research and actually do something with it then what's it all for?


I for one would be flattered that someone did something with my research. Unfortunately it seems some are here for ego or some other reason other then the free sharing of ideas and experimental results. What someone does with that information no one can control because we freely let it go in this and other forums. We make that choice and to tell you the truth if you do not agree with the freely shared portion then you should not post on an open source forum.


Again, please stop berating someone who is actually doing something to get this out there. It doesn't matter if he is charging a fee for it or asking for a donation to further his research because he is actually doing work by making the kits and buying the materials and shipping the kits. He is doing this and not Slayer or even you for that fact.


I mean I would understand completely if he was trying to patent the idea and prevent anyone from doing the same as he is doing right now. In fact if Slayer has any brains he might want to start making his own kits with original documentation and all that. I mean what is to stop him from doing the same?

Quote from: ramset
One of the things I do with my life is try to help the less fortunate among us,specifically handicapped children and their families.
I have often wanted to enlist the aid of others from this community to help with some of the more specific challenges...

Helping the less fortunate and handicapped is
good;  if it is truly given without any expectation
of getting something in return.

I'm certain you'd receive much generous assistance
in working out any technical challenges you may
need help with.  Many in the community will offer
assistance gladly.

Quote from: ramset
...some of this work would have definite commercial value.

Some of us balk at "commercial" because of the many
hoops and difficulties associated with such ventures.
Commercial endeavors take one into the world of greed
and exploitation unavoidably.

Quote from: ramset
The challenge being how to keep people like teslatronics and all his many supporters , from taking this work and running off to start a  "RESEARCH" business?

How does a group perform open source  research and protect it from people like this?

For those who want to retain exclusive control and
rights over their work "Open Source" is not the answer.
The use of Open Source Research by anyone for any
purpose is encouraged.

Quote from: ramset
The consequences are far worse in the example of Teslatronics , he steals from people in this world that can't even get a clean glass of water [5 billion] .

I don't think "stealing" is descriptive of the process
of utilizing Open Source ideas.  The thought that people
in the World are being deprived in this case seems
extraordinarily excessive.

There are economical solutions to lack of clean water
for drinking.  Show them how and they can actually
do it themselves.

Quote from: ramset
How do you define what is appropriate behavior  when peoples lives actually depend on the work??

If lives are dependent upon any work then that
work will be guarded.  In this case we cannot
make such a connection.

Quote from: ramset
We are discussing work that could save lives!!,Change lives!! Truly needy lives !!

Then you must be talking about Education.  Showing
those who need it the procedures and processes for
meeting their own needs.

What sort of work are you referring to?

Quote from: ramset
Patents, copy rights, fences, at what cost??
nobody here that is actually working to desalinate sea water or bring energy to places that
don't have it,to warm the homes of the less fortunate ,put food on tables where famine and drought
are ravishing the land.

It is possible to accomplish those tasks on a
small scale rather economically;  there are
innovative solutions to those problems which
are easily taught to people who need such
knowledge.  Unfortunately, the plight of many
people suffering those conditions has been brought
about intentionally by governments as they look
after their "interests."

Our World is presently in the hands of very bad
"rulers" who are together bringing an AGENDA
of enslavement and control to fruition.  Conditions
are going to become even worse for people
everywhere in the near future.

Quote from: ramset
Nobody here working towards that goal gives a hoot about patents and copy rites
Patents have proven to be a waste of time in this venue.
Going for a patent on an OU device is like handing a man a stick to beat you with.

I couldn't agree more!

HHMMMMM
So when a scientist comes in to share an idea here for the purpose of desalinating sea water
or making electricity to heat and power parts of the world where people are actually suffering.


when that man comes here jibness will ask him is this open source? he will say yes thats why I'm here
I see you men have standards and are willing to work together to get this out there.
you play with small ideas together and respect the work ,no one goes to take the work and profit from it.
??

It is one thing to have "work" that is a work unfinished or unproven and "give it away"
it is quite another thing to have something that really Works !!


Gentlemen you are oh so right this is absolutely not the venue for such a scientist ,
open source has taken on a greedy "I would do it if I could" ,I GOT MINES! attitude.
To think that Scientists research could ever find a foot hold in the environment present here would be
asinine ,and to think a Scientist would ever work this way with men who defend a thief to their own fellows work?


well that is a bit insane............


Thx
Chet
PS Just for clarity the "fellows" are hundreds strong with thousands and thousands of hours spent at no cost to this community,and with no intent to profit from the work of others.


I had perceived this to be profoundly obvious among these men?

Quote from: ramset on March 09, 2013, 05:31:29 PM
HHMMMMM
So when a scientist comes in to share an idea here for the purpose of desalinating sea water
or making electricity to heat and power parts of the world where people are actually suffering.


when that man comes here jibness will ask him is this open source? he will say yes thats why I'm here
I see you men have standards and are willing to work together to get this out there.
you play with small ideas together and respect the work ,no one goes to take the work and profit from it.
??

It is one thing to have "work" that is a work unfinished or unproven and "give it away"
it is quite another thing to have something that really Works !!


Gentlemen you are oh so right this is absolutely not the venue for such a scientist ,
open source has taken on a greedy "I would do it if I could" ,I GOT MINES! attitude.
To think that Scientists research could ever find a foot hold in the environment present here would be
asinine ,and to think a Scientist would ever work this way with men who defend a thief to their own fellows work?


well that is a bit insane............


Thx
Chet
PS Just for clarity the "fellows" are hundreds strong with thousands and thousands of hours spent at no cost to this community,and with no intent to profit from the work of others.


I had perceived this to be profoundly obvious among these men?

you know what I'm already sick of this drivel. Why don't you hear it from the guy himself...


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nXEkBcgyqKs&feature=g-high-u
You talk about BS. You are not concerned with anything but BS. This guy from what he states did not take this from anyone but Tesla himself.

Charity is charity. And to run a campaign to educate people to who really devised these type of devices is exactly what this man is doing.
It doesn't matter if he is profiting from this or not, why? Because this is Tesla's technology not yours and certainly not anyone else's. Tesla gave this to everyone and this man is just trying to get it out there to the masses. Do you not see Tesla's picture on the DVD. How about this guys handle???
]TeslaTronics??
You talk about thievery?? Who owns it and who has the patents to show that ownership?

Quit the BS...

Watch the entire video and then comment. I bet you don't watch it and still cling to the drivel you spout. Get off the I'm here for charity and get with the program. We are here to explore the free energy field and where it takes us. Arguing about who owns what, when it is shared openly is plainly egotistical and down right a slap in the face of everyone on this forum and what the open source community is about.

I won't be commenting on this subject again and if you think this guy did something not in the guise of open source then you have problems.

QuoteBecause this is Tesla's technology not yours and certainly not anyone else's.

Enough of the "Cult of Tesla" boys, sometimes it's just too much.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformer

QuoteThe principle behind the operation of a transformer, electromagnetic induction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_induction), was discovered independently by Michael Faraday (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Faraday) and Joseph Henry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Henry) in 1831. However, Faraday was the first to publish the results of his experiments and thus receive credit for the discovery.

QuoteThe first type of transformer to see wide use was the induction coil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction_coil), invented by Rev. Nicholas Callan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Callan) of Maynooth College (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maynooth_College), Ireland in 1836. He was one of the first researchers to realize that the more turns the secondary winding has in relation to the primary winding, the larger is the increase in EMF. Induction coils evolved from scientists' and inventors' efforts to get higher voltages from batteries. Since batteries produce direct current (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_current) (DC) rather than alternating current (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternating_current) (AC), induction coils relied upon vibrating electrical contacts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_contact) that regularly interrupted the current in the primary to create the flux changes necessary for induction. Between the 1830s and the 1870s, efforts to build better induction coils, mostly by trial and error, slowly revealed the basic principles of transformers.

Quote from: ramset on March 09, 2013, 12:49:01 PM
Jib
I suppose a better question would be what does research mean to you?
open source is the excuse that was used to grab the work of many members here collate it all into an advertising campaign for personal gain and tell the people whose work was being used to go Fu@3 themselves when they tried to explain.


then the same salesman is telling folks contributing at kickstarter that the only place to get this info is to buy it from him and help him with his research?? {NOT ONE MENTION OF THESE OPEN SOURCE COMMUNITIES AND THEIR YEARS OF SELFLESS WORK!!!}


Research involves EXTREMELY benevolent behavior at this level ,it requires tons of effort on absolutely no resources ,a group effort
sometimes with the aid of scientists that share ideas and proprietary information to this benevolent community.


If this is the next level to you [taking the work from a community you never helped in any way and telling them to go F themselves when they try to explain],obviously you are a business man and this makes perfect sense to you.


Thank you for clarifying the profoundly obvious!.


Chet


.

Agree 100%! And would add this..  There be absolutely no charge of any kind for information founded on this OPEN SOURCE FORUM! 

I dissagree with no charge in just one respect. that you give a push to get people to come to these free open source communities, and join in as they will benefit in not just being able to freely decide if they want to fund you purely to help you and get tangible (coils and circuit components) goods, or scavenge them selves up the resources, You may loose a few backers, but you gain the trust and help of the community, in exchange which I feel is worth far more than any thing you would loose on that.

I would propose that the group here get involved and do exactly what Teslatronix has done but as group, and split the money so that each person can use some of it for their own research aspects they provide to the whole of the group, and the information being given back into the general pool of opensource data base.

@TeslaTronics, the only thing I really see since I can not verify the "f*ck you" that was claimed to exist in your reply, is that you did not in any of the areas I looked, spur the knowledge of where the original design and help info came from, this leads people to do as they do, and assume, that you are the sole holder of the info. Which is not true as I see it.

as for an olive branch, I would say you need to openly share where the info came from, and any changes you made on your kickstarter if they still allow you to add to the page so that people who are going there, both backers and those finding you through google fu, will be led to both this forum and others, to learn even more. anything else is diminutive, as in the further temporally you move from your actions (say donating money to Gbluer to help his research or Dr. Stiffler's research) the less effect it will have, but bringing new fresh minds to the engineering pool while making it clear that they should also do the same thing, will have a cumulative effect much the way religions spread, except this can do far greater good, than any religion has ever done, and will do far less damage to the human race and the earth, than any of those religions have ever done as well, I hope you both benefit and can add to the collective effort and this bickering can stop, as it is completely counter productive.

***let me be clear too that I am NOT an atheist, NOR am I a part of any other religion, and yes atheism is a religion, of sorts, in that they have to BELIEVE that there is NOT a god from circumstantial evidence in the form of a lack of evidence of such an existence, and they further prove this to me all the time by being just as zealous as any religions convert has of any other religion,

my stance on that is that I am agnostic (I don't know, either way) and I find the pursuit of any evidence either way a frivolous   effort, that we should instead be investing in bettering our world and lives instead, and by proxy effecting positive changes in teh world for other to enjoy as well.

oh and I should add that your response to all the flaming you got from Desert Experimenter and such was the first I found of a mention from where the info originated, sorry to have omitted that fact. It still would be the better olive branch offering for at least me, if you purposefully directed people from your site, to opensource communities, and give a list with maybe some review of your experiences on each so they know what sort of benefit they can expect to obtain by joining in and working with the people at each of them.

Quote from: The Architect on March 10, 2013, 12:43:51 AM
I dissagree with no charge in just one respect. that you give a push to get people to come to these free open source communities,

And how you going to control this? From the legal stand point you can push all you want ... If one don't want to cooperate (post the originating/tor info) all you can do is kiss hiss/her behind... There is absolutely no incentive do do so.

and join in as they will benefit in not just being able to freely decide if they want to fund you purely to help you and get tangible (coils and circuit components) goods, or scavenge them selves up the resources,

If you leave absolutely OPEN and FREE,  there is no money to be made from sharing the info, the scumbags cant charge you for it..

MY 2¢

I suppose "hiding the source" is mandatory in these types of "business" ventures.
people should fancy you some sort of Genius or savant ,who can pull things from thin air!!
sort of like a wizard ,you'd ware a funny Hat and wave things around and cause magical
moments.........


HHmm I suppose the investors are gonna have an opinion Now?Why the change of heart?
I know if I was one of these "enlightened" investors and it was a few years back [i see things differently now]


TT and I would be discussin that face to face!


Gents You are on the right page,I have said enuff
There are men much better at "sayin" here than me !


Just one thought?[not to Jibness]
how about a charity to start off,the money goes to a charity to bring resources to people that
have none,or to teach Children ,an example??


We pick a charity ??


I suppose ultimately we will be the beneficiaries [a better world]


thx
Chet
PS
I might add provisions would have to be made from inventors/designers on down to "service"
however ,I must also add .


You could not even Fathom the resources that would embrace such a project ![intellectual as well as material].

Quote from: 27Bubba on March 10, 2013, 08:19:35 AM
If you leave absolutely OPEN and FREE,  there is no money to be made from sharing the info, the scumbags cant charge you for it..

MY 2¢

my concept of charge was that he do some charity work to bring the people coming to his little business venture and expose them to the opensource community, to help both the community, and the people whom had come to him, and hopefully anyone else planning to do this will follow this model, from the start next time, and share the info freely rather than neglect to mention where it came from and give their honest reviews on what each forum in the opensource community has to offer someone who would join it.

TL:DR of this is that the CHARGE is not monetary, so ZERO money charged. instead an ACT to HELP people is the charge. if he does indeed use the excess money to do research and releases that research and it's findings to the opensource community, then he would be totally keeping with in the opensource mentality, but only time will tell with that.

Quote from: 27Bubba on March 10, 2013, 08:19:35 AM
If you leave absolutely OPEN and FREE,  there is no money to be made from sharing the info, the scumbags cant charge you for it..

MY 2¢

OK BUBBA SERIOUSLY I HAVE A HUGE PROBLEM WITH WHAT YOU JUST DID THERE! you PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH! remove that NOW and properly attribute WHO said WHAT

Responsibility,


What you do with what you got,ultimately makes you responsible for the out come!
you want to hand the future over to the "status Quo".?
We're in their box,we have gotten so used to it that its the closest thing to perpetual motion we have here
the "closed loop" of  "Happy Time at OU.com"
When will you realize that handing this work over to men like TeslaTronics is not in our best interest
its the "status Quo" at work....


Do onto others before they do onto you,Take first ask questions later....

Just for absolute clarity ,I am in no way whatsoever inferring that this particular example  {TT} is "the game changer" for free energy.
It is however A game changer to open source research,at a true Scientific level.[or a reiteration of why that contribution does not exist]
Or we can keep flinging things on the OU wall till something sticks,hope that there is no one in our midst
  who follows every step for profit,[has his finger on the "send" button to his patent attorney]
Seems like we have to actually do something quite out of character?

Something "selfless and responsible".


THX
Chet

 Hi everyone.
Not sure if I'm welcome here but I thought i would throw my coin in too.

I support TeslaTronics on this one.  The arguments for and against have already been done to death so I'm not going to re-iterate what has already been well said.

However, their are a couple of points i want to throw in the mix...

1) John bedini (and others) sell kits that are based upon tesla and others principals / designs etc etc. So, why are people not throwing a hissy fit with him? Sounds like double standards to me...

2) The video by Kultus was beyond belief for someone that would have us believe he is an experienced free energy developer. He should know better that to do such a video. It comes across to me like, 'pram, baby, dummy, spit).

3) This is not the first time that kultus and others have attempted to stop any commercial sales of anything to do with Free Energy.
he and others tried the same thing on with me and vesper over a year ago... and i mean THE EXACT SAME THING! When we said politely to him and the others that what we do with OUR OWN unreleased (IE private) research and inventions is our own purgatives he and others commenced a campaign of ridicule, lies, set-ups and emotional manipulation against myself and vesper. THE EXACT SAME THING he is doing to Teslatronics. 
4) Has kultus and other (including myself and people here) not 'profited' from the work done by the FE community? Have the senior among us not become known within the community and thus famous (or infamous)?

5) All the FE forums are public and open. All the info can be freely (and easily) copied... EXCEPT ONE! The LINUX open source community releases source code under the GNU GPL. It is a licence that basically states you can use the software free of charge, you can modify it free of charge, you can redistribute it free of charge... BUT you are NOT aloud to sell it without express permission from the owner/originator. (it's not quite that simple but that is the short version).
I know that because I'm a LAMP (Linux Apache Mysql PHP) developer, I build LFS (Linux From Scratch) servers and I used to do a lot of development work within the community.
After the incident with the IAEC founders 15 months ago, I changed 'my' forum rules, I made the forum login required AND I changed the rules to include a GNU GPL disclaimer. EVERYTHING posted on 'my' forum comes under the GPL.
Their is a way to protect your own work if you do not wish others to 'profit' from it... BUT you need to get the administrators of your forum to change the rules.


On a side note, the daftman is hard at work and is unavaliable, he will be returning to the FE community at the end of this year start of next. Thats what he said when i spoke to him on the phone in January.

Quote from: The Architect on March 10, 2013, 02:54:19 PM
OK BUBBA SERIOUSLY I HAVE A HUGE PROBLEM WITH WHAT YOU JUST DID THERE! you PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH! remove that NOW and properly attribute WHO said WHAT

DEAL WITH IT!

CW  So,
You had no part in any of this,your work was not involved,you recruited no scientist or inventor to participate in the Open source research .
Seems you fight a bit with those around you when you work "mine mine mine I did it first" Yada yada yada ?
seems the people that you have worked with here do this too.
Hmmm
I completely see your point.........
You don't play well with others !


Thx
Chet

Quote from: ramset on March 11, 2013, 07:56:07 PM

CW  So,
You had no part in any of this,your work was not involved,you recruited no scientist or inventor to participate in the Open source research .
Seems you fight a bit with those around you when you work "mine mine mine I did it first" Yada yada yada ?
seems the people that you have worked with here do this too.
Hmmm
I completely see your point.........
You don't play well with others !


Thx
Chet

Is that aimed at me?


LOL, never mind, i just read your update...


Ever herd of friendly rivalry? A bit of motivation?

CWWhat does source code have to do with research that is actively being suppressed at every imaginable level in these forums?
What do people that make there living selling books have to do with a scientist being involved here in an open source research  project?


Your talking about something completely different,I'm talking about suppression and how this community needs to get with it regarding "research" and supporting those that do !


?
Thx
Chet

Quote from: ramset on March 11, 2013, 08:10:28 PM
CWWhat does source code have to do with research that is actively being suppressed at every imaginable level in these forums?
What do people that make there living selling books have to do with a scientist being involved here in an open source research  project?

Explain to me how you think its being suppressed? I think i missed your point in this topic.

Quote from: ramset on March 11, 2013, 08:10:28 PM
Your talking about something completely different,I'm talking about suppression and how this community needs to get with it regarding "research" and supporting those that do !


?
Thx
Chet

Part of this topic was about the divide RE what TT is doing... ergo, i was relaying info that is widely used by another open source community that does not suffer (very often) from suppression...

Oh, and i do play nice with others, when their ego's don't get in the way...

But if it's surpression you want to talk about... then why is it my youtube analitics show that someone on this forum posts links to some of my vids, but within hours of doing so, the link and post has been removed...

That IS suppression by a forum that is supposed to be all about sharing and open source ect ect...
Suppression comes in many forms. Just because you don't like someone doesn't mean that you have to enforce your opinions on other people...

Well
I'm not really following you, seems you are trying to get traffic or something?
Well I guess you are a business man who uses the open source community to advance your business edge?
business can be Ruff at times?


And I suppose that goes a long way towards explaining your compassion for the complete stranger to these forums ... the one that is telling unsuspecting investors ,the only place you can get This work is from me Teslatronics??
Not a word about where "he" got it,nor that it can all be had for free here from the guys that did all the work?


Makes some sense now!


But that is not the point here [his low moral standard]
the point is the trickle down sledgehammer effect to Scientists that might have considered contributing here!




Thx
Chet

Quote from: ramset on March 11, 2013, 08:54:31 PM
Well
I'm not really following you, seems you are trying to get traffic or something?
Well I guess you are a business man who uses the open source community to advance your business edge?
business can be Ruff at times?


And I suppose that goes a long way towards explaining your compassion for the complete stranger to these forums ... the one that is telling unsuspecting investors ,the only place you can get This work is from me Teslatronics??
Not a word about where "he" got it,nor that it can all be had for free here from the guys that did all the work?


Makes some sense now!


But that is not the point here [his low moral standard]
the point is the trickle down sledgehammer effect to Scientists that might have considered contributing here!




Thx
Chet

Well, thats interesting that you say that because i was thinking the same about you... not that your a business man but more of an employee of sorts...

Suffice it to say, your guess is wrong... i'm not a business man, that should be obvious... I'm an engineer, i love nothing more than thinking wacky things up, building them and then testing them out and making improvements. I'm not content with going over the same old setups, the same old concepts... thats no research, at BEST its RE-research because it's already been done... Thats why my work sits out on the rim, thats why a lot of the stuff i do is the first time it's done...


I'm not a scientist, and i would find it an insult to be called one... I'm an engineer, i get it built and get the job done.
I have the brains to form an opinion and the balls to speak my mind.


So, my apologies for trying to help out in an area i actually have experience in...

An employee of sorts??


------------
So You have the Brains and the Balls ,its just right and wrong where you are a bit weak!


No problem ,I Gotta go the next guy comes in soon and all this pickin on Teslatronics open source suppression stuff makes me very tired..........


Oh and good luck with that Ego,gotta be careful with those some folks get the wrong impression!


Thx
Chet

indeed ramset...

But here is the interesting thing...

You claim to be fighting suppression and yet, when someone comes up with a completely new idea to solve the problem you jump on them and soil their suggestion and try to bury it...

I call you out infront of your peers as a hypocrite... your not here to help with the problem... your here to stir up as much crap as you can...
The question is, will you stand like a man and face them or will you cower in the orifice you infest and spit out some nonsence to try and make yourself look good?

I left the door open for you to fall in... and you did...


But their is one thing i find interesting... i recognise your style of writing... i recognise the methods you use behind your arguments... Your from the IAEC... i just can't put my finger on who...

Your not well bud,A bit more than just paranoid?
A completely new idea? whats that ,selling other peoples work as your own??


How absolutely novel....


I have seen this before ,you should try a faraday cage when you play with high voltage,and its one of the reasons we don't just sell things we are not sure are safe to children.


But if you are an engineer you would know that...and I suppose being such and supporting a boy selling RF toys to children would leave you some where between grossly negligent ,or just plain
irresponsible ?


No I think you have some other reason for being here,a professional engineer would never get behind this fraud to common sense  nor have such low ethics or safety standards!


but then I'm old school?
stealing seems to be a badge of honor to some?


And by Methods do you mean common sense,Yeah that could be a problem......
seems quite rare in your case [as a Teslatronics supporter]


thx
Chet                     

Ramset,

Fear not.  8)

Sledgehammers have proven to be very effective tools for
the task of separating Men from Boys.  :o

It's all good!  ;D

Quote from: Ramset
But that is not the point here [his low moral standard]
the point is the trickle down sledgehammer effect to Scientists that might have considered contributing here!

Quote from: ramset on March 11, 2013, 11:26:37 PM
Your not well bud,A bit more than just paranoid?
A completely new idea? whats that ,selling other peoples work as your own??


How absolutely novel....


I have seen this before ,you should try a faraday cage when you play with high voltage,and its one of the reasons we don't just sell things we are not sure are safe to children.


But if you are an engineer you would know that...and I suppose being such and supporting a boy selling RF toys to children would leave you some where between grossly negligent ,or just plain
irresponsible ?


No I think you have some other reason for being here,a professional engineer would never get behind this fraud to common sense  nor have such low ethics or safety standards!


but then I'm old school?
stealing seems to be a badge of honor to some?


And by Methods do you mean common sense,Yeah that could be a problem......
seems quite rare in your case [as a Teslatronics supporter]


thx
Chet                   

Shame, i was hoping you would atleast try to rise to the challenge of standing, if not as a man atleast stand.

But, I'll tell you what... you continue to do whatever you want... it makes no difference to me if someone take YOUR ideas and sells them out from under you... No difference...
I try to help and you believe you know best so I'm going to leave you to it. I have work you do.

have fun... take care... and try not to ruin someone other than yourself...

Quote from: comwarrior on March 11, 2013, 06:59:53 PM
Hi everyone.
Not sure if I'm welcome here but I thought i would throw my coin in too.

I support TeslaTronics on this one.  The arguments for and against have already been done to death so I'm not going to re-iterate what has already been well said.

However, their are a couple of points i want to throw in the mix...

1) John bedini (and others) sell kits that are based upon tesla and others principals / designs etc etc. So, why are people not throwing a hissy fit with him? Sounds like double standards to me...

2) The video by Kultus was beyond belief for someone that would have us believe he is an experienced free energy developer. He should know better that to do such a video. It comes across to me like, 'pram, baby, dummy, spit).

3) This is not the first time that kultus and others have attempted to stop any commercial sales of anything to do with Free Energy.
he and others tried the same thing on with me and vesper over a year ago... and i mean THE EXACT SAME THING! When we said politely to him and the others that what we do with OUR OWN unreleased (IE private) research and inventions is our own purgatives he and others commenced a campaign of ridicule, lies, set-ups and emotional manipulation against myself and vesper. THE EXACT SAME THING he is doing to Teslatronics. 
4) Has kultus and other (including myself and people here) not 'profited' from the work done by the FE community? Have the senior among us not become known within the community and thus famous (or infamous)?

5) All the FE forums are public and open. All the info can be freely (and easily) copied... EXCEPT ONE! The LINUX open source community releases source code under the GNU GPL. It is a licence that basically states you can use the software free of charge, you can modify it free of charge, you can redistribute it free of charge... BUT you are NOT aloud to sell it without express permission from the owner/originator. (it's not quite that simple but that is the short version).
I know that because I'm a LAMP (Linux Apache Mysql PHP) developer, I build LFS (Linux From Scratch) servers and I used to do a lot of development work within the community.
After the incident with the IAEC founders 15 months ago, I changed 'my' forum rules, I made the forum login required AND I changed the rules to include a GNU GPL disclaimer. EVERYTHING posted on 'my' forum comes under the GPL.
Their is a way to protect your own work if you do not wish others to 'profit' from it... BUT you need to get the administrators of your forum to change the rules.


On a side note, the daftman is hard at work and is unavaliable, he will be returning to the FE community at the end of this year start of next. Thats what he said when i spoke to him on the phone in January.

Ah CW
How good to see you here,and to read your first post.
Well i guess an introductory video would be the best way for people to get to know who you are,and just how much of a great guy you are.

TinMan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70T7NrYXM_4&list=FLsLiBC2cL5GsZGLcj2rm-4w

.


                         

Quote from: comwarrior on March 11, 2013, 10:29:14 PM
indeed ramset...

But here is the interesting thing...

You claim to be fighting suppression and yet, when someone comes up with a completely new idea to solve the problem you jump on them and soil their suggestion and try to bury it...

I call you out infront of your peers as a hypocrite... your not here to help with the problem... your here to stir up as much crap as you can...
The question is, will you stand like a man and face them or will you cower in the orifice you infest and spit out some nonsence to try and make yourself look good?

I left the door open for you to fall in... and you did...


But their is one thing i find interesting... i recognise your style of writing... i recognise the methods you use behind your arguments... Your from the IAEC... i just can't put my finger on who...

Ohhh-i love this comment CW-Quote: You claim to be fighting suppression and yet, when someone comes up with a completely new idea to solve the problem you jump on them and soil their suggestion and try to bury it...

And yet this is exactly what you did to me and my work.And you have the nerve to call anybody a hypocrite.
People are going to love the video i posted,and the good thing is-it's not done by me.

Another of your quote's :The question is, will you stand like a man and face them or will you cower in the orifice you infest and spit out some nonsence to try and make yourself look good?

Ramset is part of a group that you(mr engineer) will never make the grade for.
He is also one of the kindest and most helpful guys i have ever met-unlike your self.

Do you have the guts to tell every body here how you banned more than 15 member's of your forum for coming to the aid of another member when you got it wrong?-due to your lack of understanding in electronic circuit's.
Not to mention that they were the only active members on the forum at the time.

You turned a great forum into a ghost town through your own stupidity.
And now you have been a member her for not even two days,and you have already started your insult's.

This situation with T/T could have easily been stoped befor it started.
Just a simple courtesy call to slayer to explain what he wanted to do-and if it was ok,would have solved all the probles that are at hand now.

CW-your full of crap,and people will see this for them self.
I only hope that they see your true colors befor it's to late.

Quote from: ramset on March 11, 2013, 11:26:37 PM
Your not well bud,A bit more than just paranoid?
A completely new idea? whats that ,selling other peoples work as your own??


How absolutely novel....


I have seen this before ,you should try a faraday cage when you play with high voltage,and its one of the reasons we don't just sell things we are not sure are safe to children.


But if you are an engineer you would know that...and I suppose being such and supporting a boy selling RF toys to children would leave you some where between grossly negligent ,or just plain
irresponsible ?


No I think you have some other reason for being here,a professional engineer would never get behind this fraud to common sense  nor have such low ethics or safety standards!


but then I'm old school?
stealing seems to be a badge of honor to some?


And by Methods do you mean common sense,Yeah that could be a problem......
seems quite rare in your case [as a Teslatronics supporter]


thx
Chet                   

The reason comwarrior is all for what T/T done chet,is because he is the same.
They are what we call sleeper's-they wait for something great to come along,and they grab it for them self.
They then set out to profit from others hard work.
Comwarrior has made many claims,but not once has he backed them up.
His signature on his forum is-95% efficiency,i dare you to do better-with a pulse motor i believe lol.
But he has never backed this claim up with any evidence.

So please dont take to heart what he has to say,as he is only a sleeper with little to show.
And if you take a look at his video's on youtube,i think you will see what kind of engineer he realy is.
Chet-I and many others here and in other places know who you are and what you have achieved, and believe me when i say that comwarrior dosnt even come close to the skills you have.

That being said,what should have happened is this-T/T should have got intouch with GBluer,and atleast asked him for permision to use his circuit.
An invite to GBluer to share in the benefits would also have been the right thing to do-i mean the inventor should get something for all his hard work.

But it's done now,and can only be a lesson as to what can happen to your work.
Open source means open slather to people like T/T and comwarrior.

Take from others and use as you please is there moto.

I know I said I was done commenting on this but to tell you the truth all this bickering is doing nothing but tarnishing this community.


As I have stated before when you release information on an open source forum there is very little you can do to control how that information is used. PERIOD. Unless you have a certain legal protection there is nothing you can do but act like little children.


As a scientist in the free energy community I expect that my ideas and experiments are to be used in any way that can be used. IT IS WHY I DO THIS! As a scientist in this field I want it to be used and spread as far as It can be practically done. I do not look for any compensation or renumeration for my work.  I do not expect people to bow down and give me accolades for my work because I am DOING THIS FOR THE BETTERMENT OF THE HUMAN that is reading my ideas and experiments. Even if he is profiting from my work.


No one should have license to their ideas that are shared in the public domain because it was shared openly. IF you wanted such recognition then maybe you and the others should go to a private forum and keep it to your little group. As has been said many times we are doing this for everyone and everyone has the right to take this and do whatever they want with this. It is not about me and it is certainly not about you, it is about us as the human race.


Put your egos on the back shelf and keep to our ideals that all information shared on this forum is public domain and freely usable in whatever way irrespective of the originator. If this is not kept to this standard then you all have failed to give credit to the originator of this type of technology as you bicker about who is the current modifier of technology that has been around since the 1800's or even further back then that.


You guys are doing nothing but tarnish this community in this king of the hill match and causing a good amount of this community to split and take sides. There is no call for this kind of childish actions. If you are a scientist then it should be done in the spirit of saving ourselves and not for accolades or ego trips. If you want this kind of tripe then join in the established scientific community and get no where fast.


Jbignes5


P.S. Lets get back to exploring and stop this kind of embarrassing behavior.

well, i wondered how lont it would take the tinman to join...

Hey tinman... Hows it going?

The evidence for my work is ON my youtube channel the almost 100 videos that are their... but for some reason you can not comprehend the results...

But, you seem to like spreading your BS, which is why i got fedup of listning to it and gave you a choice...

And guess what, your a hypocrite too, because you OPENLY admit to copying otherpeople information and using it for your own gains...

Question for you tinman... why is it you have these wonderful ideas that you 'don't' make any clams for... you then try to explain the results in 3 or more completely different and contradictory ways and then discontinue working on them and go build your next wonderful fantastic machine?

I see through you like glass, and so do alot of other people...

Here is the truth... you all may hate me but guess what, i solved the problem of stealing peoples work in about 2 hours... this thared has been going on for what... A week?

Berate me all you want... make up as many lies as you want... I don't care if people like me or not... the truth is i get the job done and you don't...

The truth will soon be out into the real world, then only the blind will not see the reality.


Right, back to work for me... I have PCB's to design... have fun, take care...

CW
Hate is a big word, It has its place but not here!


Harboring resentments this way is like taking poison and expecting the other guy to get sick!
doesn't do a body well.....


Sorry for your problems !However I have yet to understand your solutions?


Nor do I get the "mine" thing?
that's what Teslatronics has said that put us here in the first place!
telling investors that are clueless that the only place to get this work is from Him?


He's a conman and a crook,dressing up as a wizzard wrapping Tesla coils in candy cane colors trying to get kids to play with  mercury filled Florescent lights
inside their homes .
you ever have one of those blow up in your face?? Razor sharp glass flying out under pressure
in a mercury vapor cloud??
about the only truly reliable way to inhale mercury??




You support that whole fiasco??
and throw stones at this man??


Thx
Chet

Quote from: 27Bubba on March 11, 2013, 07:50:19 PM
I am a liar and enjoy lying to people and manipulating the way the forum works, dont like that I am a giant dick head, and DOUCHEBAG, worthless looser, then,
DEAL WITH IT!

ok done.

What kinda Bag??


So looks like we'll be havin a steel cage match!!


I see the cheap shots have already started...


Been a while ,I forget ?there's no biting [Stephans health code  ::) ]
eye pokes are only good from strait on... all the furniture will be cleared out until after [learned that the hard way ...ouch!!]

@Just in,    Ankle biting is a go.........


Will this be a last man standing event??[best kind :) ]


Rfacts is gonna ref


Jib will be doing a commentary in the dugout.
and teslatronics is running the book [out side in the back].


Any questions
?

Ramset,

It is better to GIVE than it is to receive.

GIVE freely to all who ask.

An act of KINDNESS will bring back a
tenfold reward from unexpected sources.

Do not COVET what others have.

What, dear friend, is the source of your
hostility?

Sea Monkey
I dislike wasting time or resources ! And I really dislike disingenuous folks that would partake of those limited resources,and not consider the community.


the community You live in,I live in,the guy in Pa,the fellow in Brisbain, Poland ,Phillippines etc etc etc


To squander a resource is to make it Moot,
we men are the resource, the work is what we do,the benefit is to all. Open source research done this way is throwing the baby out with the bathwater and hoping some benevolent type picks up from there.


I don't like fairy tales ,this sounds like a fairy tale to me...


"set it free if it loves you it will come back to you"[not aimed at you SM ]


We need more responsible behavior if this is ever actually going to happen!
accountability being the first step,if you are here feasting you need to be accountable to
the rest of the community [planet]and do the next right thing for "it" not you.....


Sigh.........sorry for the rant
there's a card game at Bubba's tonight...[bring your own...]


Thx
Chet

Ok why don't you do something about it then? Stop the bickering and do something. Oh wait you can't... So what is this doing to people on here? Oh wait now it isn't just on the forums it has spread to YouTube. I mean look at what you guys are doing. This is a black eye to our community. And some of you seem to think this is some sort of game.


Listen either do something about this or quiet down and continue the work. Arguing and bickering like little children, sloshing threats and slurs on character or peoples names isn't going to accomplish anything except show people how unprofessional and childish some in our community really is. It makes us all look bad.


Anyways I don't remember signing Anyang about not using the information we gain here in anyway. It is not even implied in any sense. This is a open forum for the benefit off all and that includes people who just sign up and walk away with those ideas or methods we devise.


You have no legal basis to claim anything and to tell you the truth this is all a harassment campaign that I might point out to Stephan. You have all agreed to abide by the rules of the forum and that means having respect for others as long as you don't violate that agreement you can say what you please.


There are claims that fraud is being committed  and I do not see the proof because proof is not shown.


Teslatronics has not committed fraud by saying that they can only get the package of information that he has collected. That is a fact. He has a DVD that is to accompany the kits and to a certain degree the lower tiers of donation. That DVD is what he is talking about. All the information will be on the DVD that he has himself collected. What that information is even you do not know. From the video he reports that it will be about Tesla and his fight to free us from the chains that bind us.


As far as the exciter portion of the device he is selling if no one has a patent on it then he is not responsible to report anything at all about it. It was in the public domain. If you guys feel that you have a legal leg to stand on then take it to a lawyer otherwise stop making us look bad by harassing the man and others who are trying to get you to understand this is not good for our community.


When I release information either about a circuit design or experiment or even the understanding of that process I know once it hits this forum or any other forum that I relinquish any rights to that information period. No amount of me yammering on about how unscientific that process is will change the fact that once it hits the forum it is out of my control.


And now someone writes that how dangerous it is to play with cfl's... Well that danger is there no matter if he uses that in a normal way or in any other manner. That is pure BS. CFL's are very dangerous because of what they are made of. Nothing will change that fact and alluding that little children will be experimenting with those in such a way is a little inane. The danger is there weather they are walking with it to replace a dead bulb or if it was sitting in the receptacle. There is a better example of danger in regular old electricity and the sockets we use to interface with that electricity. Does that make it any worse, do we have to make videos of electricity killing people now like Edison did with the animals?? You guys are embarrassing all of our community by spreading this crap. The Internet doesn't forget and now we have to recover from this and try to move beyond the petty fights that some are continuing to play out. You know who you are.


If you have some thoughts on the legal aspects of this then just try to get a lawyer to listen and I bet they would die of laughter. Just try it and see for yourself. Fraud is a legal term and the burden of proof is on the accuser.


P.S. my name on this forum is jbignes5 not jib or any other disrespectful slur you can think of. I used to have a lot of respect for all the parties here but now I am loosing that respect because of your childish antics.

Ramset,

It is such a simple thing that one wonders
about those who are unable to grasp the
reality of it:

People are much more inclined to treat
charitably those whom they perceive to
be good and kind;  on the other hand
those who present themselves as being
unkind or bad will be avoided.

It's a self righting ship - even when the
"sheep in wolves clothing" enter into the
transaction.  Deception only works for a
short time.

Those who proclaim that a simple electronic
circuit, which has been in use for decades, is
THEIRS and assign THEIR NAME to it are in truth
the dishonest ones.  What is their motive?

That is one reason why very little serious progress
is made on this topic and why most knowledgeable
folk avoid the forum.  It is petty and small minded.

jbigness5


You have the right to your opinion Bud,its how we roll ...


One thing you don't have a right to is my respect,that you have to earn ,it does not come with the ground beneath you're feet,not a geographical thing ..


The day you feel others have no right to any opinion but yours ,will be a lonely day for you!
As far as "telling" the adminis that others don't feel the same way as you?


or telling us what fraud looks like and how your understanding is the end all of that discussion!


??


A child intuitively knows when it does wrong,the price of wrong in these forums grows with every passing day,
unlike yourself there truly are people that need this work like air to breathe,you would not be so "flip" with this work if you or your families lives could depend on success.


Thank you for your opinion ,you have a right to it!


Don't ever think for an instant you have a right to mine!!


Thx
Chet
Ps
@SeaMonkey
Thank you for your opinion!

Quote from: ramset on March 12, 2013, 04:46:42 PM
jbigness5


You have the right to your opinion Bud,its how we roll ...


One thing you don't have a right to is my respect,that you have to earn ,it does not come with the ground beneath you're feet,not a geographical thing ..


The day you feel others have no right to any opinion but yours ,will be a lonely day for you!
As far as "telling" the adminis that others don't feel the same way as you?


or telling us what fraud looks like and how your understanding is the end all of that discussion!


??


A child intuitively knows when it does wrong,the price of wrong in these forums grows with every passing day,
unlike yourself there truly are people that need this work like air to breathe,you would not be so "flip" with this work if you or your families lives could depend on success.


Thank you for your opinion ,you have a right to it!


Don't ever think for an instant you have a right to mine!!


Thx
Chet
Ps
@SeaMonkey
Thank you for your opinion!

So again when posed with the put up or shut up you skirt the question and will continue to abuse someone who is actually trying to change the world by getting the information we research out there. Weather or not it includes your ideas or not it was shared in the open source concept without reservation of ownership. When someone says all he had to do was ask for permission that implies control and isn't that why we are here in this forum. That my friend is in deed suppression. What if Slayer or the others who don't have a legal right to say if he could use it said no? <-- THAT'S SUPRESSION. It was shared to the world and nothing says the world can not use it as they see fit. End of story.


This is just an exercise in ego trip for the parties who are exclaiming fraud and other slurs of character that are being thrown around.


So lets get back to the family card you throw around and the child card. What in blazes does this have to do with anything of the sort? Except for the heart strings you are trying to pull with that junk. Emotional abuse is the name of that card. Trying to emotionally motivate someone with a rebuttal about innocent children being effected by someone getting the information out there has nothing to do with what is going on here. Nothing. It's a ploy that someone with no legal standing uses to try to sway others into believing their tripe. You got nothing but yet some of you guys persist on using this BS. This is exactly what is gonna and has now given our community the tarnish we don't need. Instead of freely sharing we must now give permission to use and that my friend is bad, really bad. That permission before this event was implied.


As for you giving me respect it is a requirement of this forum. We all agreed to treat each other with the respect we all deserve. I will not let that be thrown asunder because you can not win an intelligent argument. Isn't that the crux of your argument about asking before using the information that slayer put out there in the public domain? So you and certain others demand the respect before any have earned it with anyone who might drop by and use the information. This my friend is the hypocritical statement that was posed to you and others. You demand and hold others to respect you and then don't hold yourselves to that same standard. Where is your morals? Where is the respect you demand for others? This is why the open source concept is used in these situations it's not about who discovered the information it is weather it is right and correct. We give up the right to control so that others will prove our methods and discoveries in lue of furthering the scientific knowledge we think is wrong in the world. We do not do this because of namesake or accolades we are true scientists who couldn't care less as long as it is correct and repeatable. We are all looking to improve the human condition and it can only be done if no one claims ownership and share it openly in a respectful forum no matter if that information or circuit diagram is used. When we allow ourselves to feed our ego it grows to a point where respect is given after we say so instead of it being implied from the get go.


Using tactics like these will only drive people we want to explore with us away and maybe even encourage others to do the same as the guy you are bashing, wch I don't think he has done anything wrong.


Now if he disappears with the money and doesn't do what he has said he will do, like ship the kits or give the DVD with his library of information then yes that's fraud. Until that day comes then do not make accusation you can not prove, for which I ask you guys again, PROVE IT or get on with life and stop abusing this man and his attempt to make a way to get funding to research the processes he has shown with his TESLA coil and exciter.


At least you got my name partially right this time. Again it is jbignes5. See it isn't about getting things right with you it is about how you avoid paying attention to details. Again put up or get on with life and stop harassing people who want to do something in this field to get the word out.

Here,I cut and pasted it


>Again it is jbignes5.<
So the Child thing and humanity is a card to you?
Hmm maybe you are a scientist? perhaps even a broad spectrum kinda guy ,A master in Physics,chemistry, Biology, all manner of science as well as engineering fields , some one that can be autonomous at all levels?
Nice,then you don't need a community ,your all set!!


Me I need a community,I work every day towards that goal,I have for years,

thx
Chet

"But if you are an engineer you would know that...and I suppose being such and supporting a boy selling RF toys to children would leave you some where between grossly negligent ,or just plain irresponsible ?"


Rest assured Com Warrior is not against unfairly judging others, he's made that crystal clear to many. His behaviors more closely resemble "Mall Cop" than engineer.

Quote from: Ramset
So the Child thing and humanity is a card to you?
Hmm maybe you are a scientist? perhaps even a broad spectrum kinda guy ,A master in Physics,chemistry, Biology, all manner of science as well as engineering fields , some one that can be autonomous at all levels?
Nice,then you don't need a community ,your all set!!


Me I need a community,I work every day towards that goal,I have for years,

You're clearly addicted to the process
of dialogue - but you're damaging your
credibility with your spurious arguments.

Like "The Unmentionable One" at EF you
just can't see it when you've lost the debate
and you drone on and on with feeble arguments
meant to extoll your own virtues; to expound
upon your greatness; and your self proclaimed
"rightness."

All in error it must be added...

Sayonara - but the friendship remains.

I just have 1 question for you at this stage Comwarrior, Are you pissed that I didn't do a video for you or did you try to set me up on the 20/1/2013 ?

Link of CW's message asking me to do a video to assainiate a fraudster .......
http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i442/Kultus01/NewBitmapImage2_zps22c17603.jpg (http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i442/Kultus01/NewBitmapImage2_zps22c17603.jpg)


we all know your a money making man, Remember Christmas of 2011 ? we all needed to ask our wife's for lots of money so we could purchase a device from you and Vesper That we would only fail at finding FE without ?? I fkn do and so do many others ...


Do you remember destroying the TEEP forum because you didn't understand a circuit that Tinman made and put him under heavy scrutiny, and then when you couldn't prove him wrong You banned everyone who came to his aid in anyway ?? I do and again so do many others .....


Now my Favourite, you sir claim to have a device with 95% efficiency, but when ever someone asks you to show them a video you tell them they have to find the video for them selves, I've watched all of your 100+ videos in search of this mysterious video and again so have many others, so where is it ? that's right it doesn't exist  You make claim that other people are frauds .... YOU SIR ARE A BLOODY FRAUD IN LIFE IT'S SELF, You piggy back on TEEP and the Daftman You have nothing original of your own yet you have the nerve to call others out .... Your a Joke and a fraud, and a nasty man to boot. Yes the truth will come out, and guess what people will learn, they will learn of a man who on his own forum, suppresses his members from free thought, and bans those who don't agree with his ideas .... Funny, I don't think the Iaec has ever banned anyone.... Care to share the numbers on people you have banned CW ??? bet you dont.....   




To introduce Comwarrior to this community in all his glory please watch the video below, I was going to do my own ... but I cannot top Twally on this one as he has knwo Comwarrior the longest out of most of us in the entire community....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70T7NrYXM_4&list=FLsLiBC2cL5GsZGLcj2rm-4w (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70T7NrYXM_4&list=FLsLiBC2cL5GsZGLcj2rm-4w)   






Sorry guys I wasn't going to comment further here and after this post I wont, I totally agree that the bitching that has been going on is tearing a great hole in this community, however frauds liars and cheats need to be put in their place form time to time...

Sea Monkey
You are correct I don't get it!![being completely sincere].


I will leave this alone and go my way!
Thx
Chet

Quote from: ramset on March 12, 2013, 06:40:21 PM
Here,I cut and pasted it


>Again it is jbignes5.<
So the Child thing and humanity is a card to you?
Hmm maybe you are a scientist? perhaps even a broad spectrum kinda guy ,A master in Physics,chemistry, Biology, all manner of science as well as engineering fields , some one that can be autonomous at all levels?
Nice,then you don't need a community ,your all set!!


Me I need a community,I work every day towards that goal,I have for years,

thx
Chet

After reading many of your posts, you thrive on... No you get off on being sarcastic and always avoiding the problem or even answer with a clear and honest explanation. Both on here and EF. You trivialize everything we are here for and twist words in such an elegant way. I really like some of the comments about you but I can't repeat them because I do have standards.


Again I shall refrain from wasting my time on your worthless banter. You have admitted you know little about anything here many many times. You kiss up real well and all the while being condescending to just about everyone. Besides the ones you kiss in the dairy aire.
I mean really what use are you. No published results or anything credible from you. You seem to be a cheer leader of your chosen. And the rest are just.. wait let me quote you... "Douche bag"s. Amazing how you grate on people's nerves and somehow you persist.


You are wrong in this endeavor as you have been wrong a great many times. Well, so have I but at least I learn from my being wrong. I evolve and change but you sit there reveling in your ignorance and join causes against the very community you pretend to be a part of. Amazing...


Come on post another aloof post about some poetic phrase that has nothing to do with the problem at hand.


As for profiting from research done I believe on EF you were all for buying a kit from someone who researched something for the cost of parts and his labor. Isn't that what Teslatronics is doing? Oh wait he didn't ask for a specific amount either it was left up to the ones who donated to further the research on the wireless transmission of energy. Unless Slayer and the rest can pony up the proof that it is a novel circuit and that they have the right to control how it is used by legal means and not by pressure of harassment then they have no legs to stand on. And Teslatronics gives full credit where credit is due. Including the name "Slayer". You have said that yourself.


So the real deal is that he get down on all fours and ask for permission as well to a circuit that was released in the public and grovel to use it in his device? When you open the great book of electronic circuits in the public domain, do you need to ask for permission to make a device from that? I think not.


Where is these children that are being hurt by this? This is also being sold under specific instructions that it is not known what the effects are both to other devices and people even. These are kits that are being sold as experimenters kits. Meaning the experimenter knows full well the dangers associated with such a device. He has explained about his fingers getting burned and such fully and warns of such events happening. Those are the facts my friend.


So lets see the prose you come up with next instead of answering these queries.

As for what I have done all one needs to do is look on EF and here and see my work. The contributions that I have done and are doing in this community. Working with others to further this effort in every way. I too had to learn by doing and that I did. I to have butted heads with the powers that be and eventually when something like this happened on EF got banned because I called out the group of guys who seemed to prey on the community by taking what wasn't truly theirs by harassment and threats to block any attempt to secure a patent just because on capacitor was added to the circuit. The idea was literally taken from these guys who were the legitimate owners by a patent submission. That's an application if you didn't know. That's why I came here. I tried to stand up for what was right and got banned for the effort and my legitimate posts were deleted. Thank god my other work was still there.

I will not name names but they know who they are. From what I am seeing this isn't the same thing. This is someone who wants to be in this field and used what he thought was open source material to put his information and his own work together to package and send out that material. There is nothing wrong with that idea. In fact it would do much for this community. I highly doubt Teslatronics will participate in this forum much anymore. Not because of earning money for his research but because he was treated so badly by some of the members and I don't blame him for feeling that way.

So yah wanna Chat ?

Knock Knock
Ok Jbignes5
Sounds like you want qualifications??


I speak regularly with men attached to this work,everyday.
Fellows that build and share their work thru you tube and these forums!


I have yet to find one  of these men or their representatives that feel the way that you do about
TeslaTronics?[just hung up the phone with one]


However that being said ,I will speak with others also,perhaps not directly connected but
never the less Builders and sharers!


Just for the sake of fairness,How many of the parties involved here, have you
or do you speak with ?


?


Thx
Chet
PS
To qualify "parties" the men who work and build and share the things being discussed here.
PPS




I have to go soon ......
?