Quote from: wattsup on December 13, 2016, 12:32:55 AM
@TinMan

One possible way to increase production. If you can find a small aquarium pump X in the direction shown then the return line Y
raised to the left red arrow (or an internal baffle), this will increase the volume change and remove bubbles quicker thus
establishing or maintaining a higher saturation of water between the plates.

The cell must be allowed to draw in it's own water.  If you force water through the cell with an external pump then you'll destroy the process.  You can use the basic concepts of a simple "air lift" to allow the cell to naturally draw in it's own water without the use of an external pump. 

Gravock

Electrolysis of water
US 4726888 A

The combination of high voltage/low amperage plates arranged perpendicularly to low voltage/high amperage electrodes in a box-like formation is deemed to provide a synergistic effect, particularly where the high voltage, but low current is applied to the small but significantly more numerous anode/cathode plates 14 and 16. The arrangement of this relatively small high voltage plates, parallel to each other, provides an extremely large surface area for transfer of ions between anode and cathode and for the carrying out of the electrolytic process.

Gravock

Quote from: gravityblock on December 13, 2016, 11:48:36 PM
The cell must be allowed to draw in it's own water.  If you move water through the cell with a pump then you'll destroy the process.  You can use a simple "air lift" to allow the cell to draw in it's own water without a pump. 

Gravock

This isn't fully true what you have said here and here is the reason why. We have to learn a new scale and that scale will be the voltage to water breakdown rate. Once we learn this new rate we can start to calculate what voltage we need to be at to breakdown a given amount of water per unit time. You see the game has changed as we are no longer seeking the old Dr. Faraday style electrolysis but the new voltage dissociation of the water molecules. This new rate of water dissociation by voltage level has yet to be learned by any of us, myself included, for we are dealing with a new form of water dissociation that is outside of Dr. Faraday's electrolysis method.


I have ran test that show when a pump is used it seems to mess up the process but as I reached higher and higher voltages I noticed the process restabilzes and things go back to normal. Just think of the new math all that want to understand this technology will have to learn to be able to predict the amount of water per injection cycle voltage breakdown rate? This is the primary reason why anyone that has made the injectors haven't gotten it to work at all as they jump ahead too far and have no idea just what they are dealing with and to be at that level one has to fully understand the technology first so that all the necessary calculations can be made before the thing is built. They have no idea what the spring tension pressure should be set at and the list of what they don't know or understand yet goes on and on.


The way I took to this technology was to learn it through and through and I still have much to learn. This is how I know what you are saying is true for normal electrolysis but untrue for the voltage breakdown of the water molecules as there is a new rate that we need to figure out. The hard part is reaching the necessary voltage levels to ionize the electrons of the atoms that make up the water molecules while they are in the liquid state of water. Trust me when I tell you thus far it hasn't been easy figuring out just how to go about placing a high voltage potential difference directly to the plates of the resonant cavities while they are submersed in water. Most people have only been able to reach 5-10 volts with Meyer's setup and they quickly give up or start going back to the old ways trying to push a bunch of current. It is the all or nothing nature of this technology which discourages people as many are like Max Miller and just want to see bubbles by any means necessary and thus will start pushing amps again just to make some bubbles come out of the resonant cavities.


When this voltage dissociation of the water molecules takes place it doesn't look like electrolysis at all as the water looks as if it is boiling, EI, large bubbles coming out of the resonant cavities with very few fine bubbles that would be seen and/or associated with normal electrolysis. Professor Paulz who is an eye witness to Meyer's technology in action described what he saw saying, "it practically boils the water." Now someone with that high of an education knows the difference between the way electrolysis looks compared to that of boiling water. I simply used these eye witnesses accounts of what they saw to know if I was doing things the right way or not. Once I got the effect of very little small bubbles I knew I was heading down the right track.


So, know that there is a new rate of reaction we have to learn about as this technology is something that is new thus will have a lot of new things we will have to learn, okay? I am not coming down on you but just letting you know this technology is something different than standard electrolysis.


Ed

Quote from: h20power on December 14, 2016, 01:01:09 AM

This isn't fully true what you have said here and here is the reason why. We have to learn a new scale and that scale will be the voltage to water breakdown rate. Once we learn this new rate we can start to calculate what voltage we need to be at to breakdown a given amount of water per unit time. You see the game has changed as we are no longer seeking the old Dr. Faraday style electrolysis but the new voltage dissociation of the water molecules. This new rate of water dissociation by voltage level has yet to be learned by any of us, myself included, for we are dealing with a new form of water dissociation that is outside of Dr. Faraday's electrolysis method.


I have ran test that show when a pump is used it seems to mess up the process but as I reached higher and higher voltages I noticed the process restabilzes and things go back to normal. Just think of the new math all that want to understand this technology will have to learn to be able to predict the amount of water per injection cycle voltage breakdown rate? This is the primary reason why anyone that has made the injectors haven't gotten it to work at all as they jump ahead too far and have no idea just what they are dealing with and to be at that level one has to fully understand the technology first so that all the necessary calculations can be made before the thing is built. They have no idea what the spring tension pressure should be set at and the list of what they don't know or understand yet goes on and on.


The way I took to this technology was to learn it through and through and I still have much to learn. This is how I know what you are saying is true for normal electrolysis but untrue for the voltage breakdown of the water molecules as there is a new rate that we need to figure out. The hard part is reaching the necessary voltage levels to ionize the electrons of the atoms that make up the water molecules while they are in the liquid state of water. Trust me when I tell you thus far it hasn't been easy figuring out just how to go about placing a high voltage potential difference directly to the plates of the resonant cavities while they are submersed in water. Most people have only been able to reach 5-10 volts with Meyer's setup and they quickly give up or start going back to the old ways trying to push a bunch of current. It is the all or nothing nature of this technology which discourages people as many are like Max Miller and just want to see bubbles by any means necessary and thus will start pushing amps again just to make some bubbles come out of the resonant cavities.


When this voltage dissociation of the water molecules takes place it doesn't look like electrolysis at all as the water looks as if it is boiling, EI, large bubbles coming out of the resonant cavities with very few fine bubbles that would be seen and/or associated with normal electrolysis. Professor Paulz who is an eye witness to Meyer's technology in action described what he saw saying, "it practically boils the water." Now someone with that high of an education knows the difference between the way electrolysis looks compared to that of boiling water. I simply used these eye witnesses accounts of what they saw to know if I was doing things the right way or not. Once I got the effect of very little small bubbles I knew I was heading down the right track.


So, know that there is a new rate of reaction we have to learn about as this technology is something that is new thus will have a lot of new things we will have to learn, okay? I am not coming down on you but just letting you know this technology is something different than standard electrolysis.


Ed

It doesn't matter what the rate of reaction is if you let the cell naturally draw in it's own water according to the method I showed.  If the rate of reaction increases, then the flow of water moving through the cell will naturally increase.  If the rate of reaction decreases, then the water flowing through the cell will naturally decrease.  The water flow through the cell is self-regulating according to the rate of the reaction.  More HHO production equals more water flow through the cell.  Less HHO production equals less water flow through the cell.  The "new rate of reaction" you speak of is totally meaningless when you let the cell naturally draw in it's own water according to the amount of HHO production the cell is generating.  The water flow through the cell is naturally linked to the rate of the reaction!  There's no need for additional energy to run an external pump!  IMO, the best way is to let the cell naturally pump it's own water according to the rate of HHO production.

Gravock

Ionization


High voltages stimulate the hydronium/hydroxide cycle.
During which free hydrogen+ ions are released.


Some systems take advantage of this in conjunction with
Specific frequency responses of water. Similar to the way a
Microwave works.
Efficiency curves indicate that an increase in temperature and pressure
allow for ionization to take place at a lower molecular voltage.