Just a heads up but there is one working with no battery and no cap no input after it starts / It is plugged in to itself and lights a three led bulb and the voltage rises.Meter is indicating about 2 volts and rising at this point. you can hook it up to a cap and it will drop volts then disconnect and it will get brighter and brighter and increase. it is a real looper from a trusted researcher that has worked on it for months and months . . In a few days an early Christmas present from one of the inventors replicators so everyone can build one at last . free energy No Joke . Being repicated before any changes are made or it is touched in any way . adnd drawn out for all to share. .
I don;t want to spoil it with any other information today but Is there and it looks easy to replicate . . Things you will need are three big torroids perm over 4000 and a square wave oscillator / signal gen . http://www.rmcybernetics.com/projects/DIY_Devices/homemade_signal_generator2.htm (http://www.rmcybernetics.com/projects/DIY_Devices/homemade_signal_generator2.htm)
Also the free ones posted on Jule thief
(Ts-3001) demo boards might work as a 1 khz square wave PWM is needed for part of the start driver.
and a circuit like this one http://www.rmcybernetics.com/projects/DIY_Devices/homemade_ignition_coil_driver.htm (http://www.rmcybernetics.com/projects/DIY_Devices/homemade_ignition_coil_driver.htm)
minus the Ign. coil . It uses the Bi-tri toroidal setup ). more coming !! Please Stand By for OU in the flesh.
you can get the torroids from here Digikey part number 495-3845-ND and grab 3 for one unit or use your own with similar specs.
Also the PWM i will use on a replication is free the Ts3001 Pwm demo board from touchstone is a perfect sig gen for 1khz half duty square wave ...here for free is you don't build the one posted
here is the unfinished representation and not the exact circuit yet but close to it . WE ARE WAITING FOR HIM TO TRACE IT BEFORE HE MOVES OR DISCONNECTS ANYTHING AS IT IS WORKING AND WE URGE THE INVENTER TO NOT MESS WITH IT UNTIL HE DRAWS IT OUT EXACTLY INCLUDING HOOK UP WIRE LENGTH AND FREQUENCYS IS RESONATES AT...AND REPLICATES A SECOND ONE AGAIN. THE OUTPUTS ARE NOT DRAWN YET FOR THE LOOP AFTER IT IS STARTED.
We wil have the exact Specs on the Mheneries and resistance of the windings soon and the loop connections . the frequency also has been read and all those details are being given just as soon as the inventor writes them down ,maybe tonight or tomorrow . Very tired. and this is real MIB stuff so Please wait and the copy and share the heck out of it as quick as possible .
Thanks
Gadget
hey gadgetmall, Very cool! I've been following that over on the other forum and you could tell just from the excitement in his voice in the video he is beside himself with it all. No faking going on there. One question I had though since I hadn't really looked close at this until the last 2 days is whether he's running the signal generator from the circuit power or does it have it's own power. The signal gen I've got can put out a fair amount of power and with the right circuit I'm sure it can light an LED bulb or three. If he can power a small signal gen circuit from the power in this circuit (or if that's what he's doing) then I'm sure he's got one of the Holy Grail certificates coming his way ;) but it just occurred to me after seeing the latest circuit verpies posted that the signal gen might be providing some of the power in this. What do you think (or know on this)?
HI!! good to see you.
he said it is plugged in itself looping . and with this TS3001 Pwm i posted it will run from 1 volt 1ua . you can snag that off one loop of a toroid or an avameco plug (i know the spelling is off). it is sure efficient square wave gen than runs for hours on a 10uf cap at 1 volt and draws 1Ua . I suspect this is no problem especially lighting those hi watt led bulbs.. .Yea i didn't want to give the source or any other information yet so he can have time to do it and not be hammered with questions we all have .right?
Thanks gadget! Yeah that's why I didn't give exact reference but anyone who's been around a while here will figure it out.
That's what I was hoping to hear on the signal gen. I knew some can run very low power but I wasn't sure if he was running his off his circuit or had an external AC powered one like I normally use. Good to hear that since I'm going to jump in on replicating this one too. Trying at that moment to find a source for that BFY51 transistor. Sounds kind of like UK numbers - just a guess. I found reference from mouser that says Bipolar - BJT NPN General Purpose - OBSOLETE. Hope it's not obsolete because they realized it was an OU part - LOL ....
Use 2n2222a, metal can type.
Or, order here if you can wait two weeks for delivery:
http://www.utsource.net/BFY51.html
How can this be considered "self-oscillating" and "energy from nowhere" if it is driven by a square wave generator?
What are the values of C1 and C3, where is the LED light set hooked up, and where are the monitoring instruments attached? Got to have those details to get started.
Has a comparison been made between the clever tri-toroid assembly, and a single toroid with three windings, of the same permeability?
Definitely don't take apart the prototype. Unless of course you need the clipleads for some other project.
Quote from: poynt99 on November 09, 2012, 09:36:59 PM
How can this be considered "self-oscillating" and "energy from nowhere" if it is driven by a square wave generator?
Hmmm.... this neck of the woods sure has some familiar looking trees in it.... have we been down this path before?
Quote from: poynt99 on November 09, 2012, 09:36:59 PM
How can this be considered "self-oscillating" and "energy from nowhere" if it is driven by a square wave generator?
That's somewhat what I was asking. Based on what gadgetmall said it would seem there's enough power to run a little square wave gen circuit. Based on the video I saw it surely has enough to run one but I am still not certain if that's what he was using in the video. He did make reference to using one of these http://www.rmcybernetics.com/projects/DIY_Devices/homemade_signal_generator2.htm which would appear to be a very low power circuit. As long as it can power something like that then it certainly fits the term 'self oscillating'. He did state it was Self-Loop, With load, no battery no cap. He's a well known good builder who's been at this for a long while. I saw Lasersaber also jumped in on getting parts for a replication. That in itself gives me considerable confidence it's not a mistake of some sort.
Base-Emitter junction of Q1-->Base-Collector junction of Q2 (is not reverse-biased like it normally would be with a positive voltage at the collector).
So the FG output is easily driving the coils to some degree.
How does the signal generator manage to turn the first transistor on, with only one uA of current?
ETA: heh, crossed posts with .99, same intent, questioning the power supplied by the signal source....
great minds do think alike
;D
Quote from: TinselKoala on November 09, 2012, 10:06:56 PM
How does the signal generator manage to turn the first transistor on, with only one uA of current?
How do you compute 1uA?
ETA: correction:
(5V - 1.4V)/100 + 100 + 50 Ohms = 14.4mA
ETA2:
If it is not a standard function generator, and perhaps a DIY oscillator without a 50 Ohm output resistance (I think he posted that this is the case), then the available current to drive the coils is even greater:
(5 - 1.4)/100 + 100 = 18mA (peak), and an average current of 9mA.
Quote from: poynt99 on November 09, 2012, 10:10:37 PM
How do you compute 1uA?
ETA: correction:
(5V - 1.4V)/100 + 100 + 50 Ohms = 14.4mA
ETA2:
If it is not a standard function generator, and perhaps a DIY oscillator without a 50 Ohm output resistance (I think he posted that this is the case), then the available current to drive the coils is even greater:
(5 - 1.4)/100 + 100 = 18mA (peak), and an average current of 9mA.
Not me... the conjecture was made above that the signal source might be an ultralow power chip that only draws 1 uA or something like that.... and I'm saying that this could not drive the circuit directly with that low current input to the oscillator. The TS3001 on its demo board, I think it was.
I do believe the device is started initially with a 12 volt battery but once running the battery is disconnected. I may be wrong but I have to assume it gets a jump start from somewhere. Have you seen the video?
Very cool 8) here is the video link ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzE-p0GJb_Q (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzE-p0GJb_Q)
I made reference to the low powered ts3001 because they are free. It outputs a perfect half duty square wave and is an adjustable PWM in that range . The designer of the Ultralow powered chip ts3001 gave those specs it operates on 0.8 to 1 volts at 1ua . I got three and will try it . otherwise just build the one that is referenced which is also cheap to build .
this is close to what he has . We noticed he is using a diode for some purpose maybe to measure . This is not exact yet as stated by the worn out inventer . We do not know any values as of yet nor what is injected with the square wave generator that drives Q1 - Q2 . These are all reference diagrams referenced my Him . What he has on the table is another matter..Maybe
Kurt said that his 9V FG supply is "isolated". It is not.
If he wants to know for sure that the device is self-oscillating and powering itself, he needs to remove the 9V supply from his function generator.
See the attached for the current path.
There again the reference to isolated By him would defiantly mean that the grounds are not in the same plain . I don't know for sure but one wire from 9+ without a common won't do . Again this is reference only and NOT drawn By Kurt.
We all have the same Question about the sig gen . We all know you can resonate a transformer with an SG to power lights but so does he. He took the Smith device to the extreme testing and i am sure he Knows .We also do not know if the comparator even has 9 volt supply on it's output leg or even if the 555 is driven by the loop . We will today though..
Where is the LED hooked in, and where are the instrumental readings taken?
(I know the TS3001 was just a suggestion, and my comment was to do with the 1 uA current draw: this timer is a really neat thing but it's probably not going to be able to drive a bipolar transistor directly. There would have to be a CMOS inverter or other high-impedance input stage with a ttl output for a bipolar drive, or a mosfet gate driver chip to drive a mosfet gate, I think. You might be able to drive a 2n7000 mosfet directly with it, but maybe not even that.)
I note that in "the other place" he's said,
Quoteit is very hard to replicate the effect, but im trying to systematize the process, there is a VERY fine setting on signal gen, and to tell you the truth im having difficulty replicating it, but bottom line is its all there, just have to understand it.
Re "isolation" of the signal source: it must have a common ground with the power section, yes? Just the signal input to the 100R base resistor of the first transistor isn't going to do anything unless the ground of the signal source is connected to the emitter somehow, I think, by connecting to the common ground at the emitter of the second transistor.
Quote from: TinselKoala on November 10, 2012, 11:14:38 AM
Re "isolation" of the signal source: it must have a common ground with the power section, yes? Just the signal input to the 100R base resistor of the first transistor isn't going to do anything unless the ground of the signal source is connected to the emitter somehow, I think, by connecting to the common ground at the emitter of the second transistor.
Yes, exactly.
The grounds between the 9V and 12V supplies will be commoned. Very simply put, he either needs to disconnect the FG output from Q1, OR remove the 9V source from the FG. Either one will remove the "effect" he is seeing.
Quote from: gadgetmall on November 10, 2012, 09:16:41 AM
I made reference to the low powered ts3001 because they are free. It outputs a perfect half duty square wave and is an adjustable PWM in that range . The designer of the Ultralow powered chip ts3001 gave those specs it operates on 0.8 to 1 volts at 1ua . I got three and will try it . otherwise just build the one that is referenced which is also cheap to build .
It operates on 0.9 to 1.8V, and at 1uA @ 25kHz operation.
If you want to drive that circuit, you will need to run the TS3001 off the full 1.8V.
Don't expect the current to remain at 1uA draw. Once you start driving that transistor, the current consumption will increase dramatically.
[quote author=poynt99 link=topic=13091.msg343764#msg343764 date=1352574169]
It operates on 0.9 to 1.8V, and at 1uA @ 25kHz operation.
If you want to drive that circuit, you will need to run the TS3001 off the full 1.8V.
Don't expect the current to remain at 1uA draw. Once you start driving that transistor, the current consumption will increase dramatically.
Mine runs fine at 1 volt and varied without any notice of current that i can measure but if it does it isn't as much as a 555 and lm393 so it is almost self powered it self . I have it on a 100uf cap with a germanium diode pair hooked to a ground and ariel core and it produces a stable square wave and has two outputs so its a full square wave if you use the two together .it appears to be 1 volt pp give or take a few millivolts and will keep going even if i ground out one of the outputs with a resistor load . I will try to see if i can even detect any increase as it is very hard to see 1ua on any of my meters but it will run on nearly nothing .i can see the square wave form varied up to 25 khz . at less than 0.9 volts it still runs but then i see the frequency drift and it will run to .6 v then stops. . We only need 1 khz half cycle though Highly stable little chip here. . Get one free and check it out . It is supposed to the the most efficient chipped pwm signal out there . I got several of them and several of their energy harvesting project ops demo boards and want to combine a set(ts1001,1002,1004) to harvest and store the electricity for another project. .. I do have circuits that runs off of a half a ua posted in Jule thief and it indeed works from the electricity in your hands holding dissimilar metals lighting an led . very efficient and i use them testing crystal cells . i got one cell made from a tiny 22 bullet that put out 1ua max# 1.2 volts dry and lights it up enough to read by and it also powers this ts3001. Tk thanked me on his replication of my circuit and had no idea you can run an led from the base/emitter of a transistor at so low a current or voltage 0.395vdc he mentioned that he gets some really high spikes that are ODD and made a cool video of the effects he gets running it with a lab power supply . Mine is just showing the bullit battery powering the circuit . They are easy to make.
I understand isolation and common grounds . I have also see floating grounds and sig gens doign there thing ,
I don't know if he has his Donald Smith coil hooked to this in any way but if he does the air could be his Ground plane on the Sg. The Video is after all named Don Smith Device project, from his successive test with it .
a bit off topic this is a new age of nano powered chips. TS1001 0.8V/0.6µA op amp from Touchstone Semiconductor, makes a sub-1V supply current sense amplifier possible. This discrete circuit operates from as low as 0.8V and draws 860nA at no load while providing a 0-500mV output for measured currents of 0-100mA,
very cool demo boards .
I hope we hear from mr Clean soon . I got my toroids and transistors ready !
here is the concept of the coils configuration from Thain who for some reason stopped research and deleted most of his work. i wonder why when it was brilliant work.
hi everyone, i am not using any tricks, but im having a hard time reproducing this myself, so i hope not to cause too much frustration, but here is how i have it wired...
http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/1874/imagedmb.jpg
correct that it needs the 9v in FG, or nothing is telling the transistor to do anything. and freq being critical here i believe.
but the signal gen cannot run the system alone with out a battery pulse.
like i said tho, if it wont work dont spend to much time on it.
however the Bitoroid i feel is very much the right direction
Quote from: mrclean on November 11, 2012, 02:09:00 AM
hi everyone, i am not using any tricks, but im having a hard time reproducing this myself, so i hope not to cause too much frustration, but here is how i have it wired...
http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/1874/imagedmb.jpg (http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/1874/imagedmb.jpg)
correct that it needs the 9v in FG, or nothing is telling the transistor to do anything. and freq being critical here i believe.
but the signal gen cannot run the system alone with out a battery pulse.
like i said tho, if it wont work dont spend to much time on it.
however the Bitoroid i feel is very much the right direction
Interesting set up. From the video I suspected the negative only was connected to the other battery. And posted such.
http://www.overunity.com/12716/probality-of-god/msg343603/#msg343603 (http://www.overunity.com/12716/probality-of-god/msg343603/#msg343603)
Hi MrClean,
In your circuit, you have the word "theoretical self loop", is this because you are not yet convinced it is so?
Very good work so far. But figuring out why it is working and being able to replicate it is every bit as important as having it work, in my humble opinion. So please keep at it! ;)
Cheers,
Bruce
Kurt.
Your big 1F capacitor is connected according to your diagram. Aren't you saying in the video that it is disconnected?
Also, what is the source for the 9V which is supplying the driver circuit? You didn't show this in your diagram.
ETA: What is that "parallel free wire" used for?
ETA2: Further annotated the diagram.
The way I see it, Kurt's 9V source is either a 9V battery, or he is regulating the 12V input from the 12V battery/1F capacitor down to 9V.
By "isolated" I suspect he means that the 9V supply is not connected to the transistor collectors.
Of course it won't work without the 9v supply to the oscillator portion. But.... will it work without the One Farad, 12 volt capacitor?
Quote from: poynt99 on November 11, 2012, 12:47:15 PM
The way I see it, Kurt's 9V source is either a 9V battery, or he is regulating the 12V input from the 12V battery/1F capacitor down to 9V.
By "isolated" I suspect he means that the 9V supply is not connected to the transistor collectors.
correct, the 9v does not run collectors, but despite the interesting results, im concluding the results to be an anomaly, i cant guarantee that everyone will see these results, and im not able to reproduce it all the time
Quote from: mrclean on November 11, 2012, 10:44:25 PM
correct, the 9v does not run collectors, but despite the interesting results, im concluding the results to be an anomaly, i cant guarantee that everyone will see these results, and im not able to reproduce it all the time
So which is correct, is the 9V source from a battery or regulated down from the 12V?
Have you built another identical setup and getting inconsistent results, or are you saying the original build shown in your video is now inconsistent?
It seems that in addition to the battery, all electrical overunity circuits also need another set of components to function. I refer, of course, to the ubiquitous and colorful alligator clipleads.
(Sorry.... I couldn't resist. Currently I have a real phobia about clipleads; they impede progress, induce fear and discharge my capacity for understanding circuitry. I don't mean to be negative.... ;) )
Quote from: TinselKoala on November 12, 2012, 03:01:02 PM
snip...
I don't mean to be negative.... ;) )
Are you positive about that :P
Quote from: hoptoad on November 13, 2012, 01:51:40 AM
Are you positive about that :P
That made me Lol!!! ;D
Mrclean
I have a question. Did you remove the SG and left the neg terminal of the 12v battery. Im just confirming it in case I missed something. im not concerned with it being easily reproduced. Just making a mental image of the process.
People!
If you copy my schematic diagram of Mr. Clean's device, at least have enough common sense to not save it in lossy JPEG (JPG) format !!!
Quote from: verpies on November 13, 2012, 04:21:05 PM
People!
If you copy my schematic diagram of Mr. Clean's device, at least have enough common sense to not save it in lossy JPEG (JPG) format !!!
What's wrong with jpeg (jpg) format when you have variable compression? But since we are talking common sense I'll just mention it is very bad form to hot link a photo or diagram on one forum from another forum. I think Stephen would be upset if he knew you hot linked all the diagrams at EF to here. You do realize it uses Stephen's bandwidth to display them on another forum? It's always best to download and post it directly (which you can do on EF) or upload it to an image hosting service and link to them.
Other than those little knot's in the wood thanks for all your work on making the diagrams.
Quote from: e2matrix on November 13, 2012, 09:36:57 PM
What's wrong with jpeg (jpg) format when you have variable compression?
JPEGs use lossy compression. "Lossy" means that they lose information.
Visually this means that JPEGs have ringing artifacts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringing_artifacts), are blurry and not as crisp as losslessly compressed images, e.g.: PNG or GIF or BMP, etc...
In this case the JPEG is 2x larger than the PNG, too, thus it wastes bandwidth. The "variability" of the compression does not resolve this problem.
Quote from: e2matrix on November 13, 2012, 09:36:57 PM
But since we are talking common sense I'll just mention it is very bad form to hot link a photo or diagram on one forum from another forum.
I think Stephen would be upset if he knew you hot linked all the diagrams at EF to here. You do realize it uses Stephen's bandwidth to display them on another forum?
It's always best to download and post it directly (which you can do on EF) or upload it to an image hosting service and link to them.
It's Stephen's fault because it is impossible to attach a PNG image to a post on his forum.
The software of the Energeticforum has no common sense as it blindly converts all PNG images to JPEGs.
Once he gets his act together and stops blurry'ing up my images with such dumb format conversions, I will upload my crisp images directly to his forum.
???
Quote from: verpies on November 14, 2012, 09:19:47 AM
JPEGs use lossy compression. "Lossy" means that they lose information.
Visually this means that JPEGs have ringing artifacts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringing_artifacts), are blurry and not as crisp as losslessly compressed images, e.g.: PNG or GIF or BMP, etc...
In this case the JPEG is 2x larger than the PNG, too, thus it wastes bandwidth. The "variability" of the compression does not resolve this problem.
It's Stephen's fault because it is impossible to attach a PNG image to a post on his forum.
The software of the Energeticforum has no common sense as it blindly converts all PNG images to JPEGs.
Once he gets his act together and stops blurry'ing up my images with such dumb format conversions, I will upload my crisp images directly to his forum.
GIF's, BMP's tend to be huge compared to .jpg files. My high end Nikon camera and Canon digital both save in .jpg format unless you go with RAW which is huge and uncompressed. I don't see any image degradation in .jpg that is noticeable and other than the recent PNG format it's been a standard for decades. BUT we aren't talking photo contest quality here. Again common sense dictates we just need to be able to read the diagram and the ones you posted I converted to .jpg when I made my own mod to your layout and it's very easy to read.
Also EF is Aaron's forum. Overunity is Stephens forum. So I'm not sure how it is Stephen's fault that you are using his bandwidth to post at EF. Any way I'm not trying to give you a hard time here but I want to let you know that many forums will BAN you for doing that and we don't want that to happen. It's always been a major NO-NO to hot link to other web sites for a picture, diagram or anything that will use bandwidth off another site. All you need to do is upload your stuff to imageshack or some place like that if you can't post directly on a site.
Quote from: TinselKoala on November 14, 2012, 11:29:26 AM
PNGs are allowed ???
To upload only. Not to download.
Try uploading a PNG to the Energeticforum and see that it will get dumbly converted to JPG for download.
Quote from: e2matrix on November 14, 2012, 11:53:56 AM
GIF's, BMP's tend to be huge compared to .jpg files.
Maybe for photos but not for my diagram.
Did you check the file sizes before you wrote this?
Compare my crisp PNG (http://www.overunity.com/13090/mr-cleans-device/dlattach/attach/117433/) and Gadgetmall's blurry JPG (http://www.overunity.com/13091/donald-smith-device-self-looping-no-cap-no-batteries-bright-lights/dlattach/attach/117437/).
Quote from: e2matrix on November 14, 2012, 11:53:56 AM
Also EF is Aaron's forum. Overunity is Stephens forum.
No, overunity.com is Stefan Hartmann's forum.
If Aaron is the owner of Energeticforum, then who is Stephen ???
Why did you write this statement below, if Stephen is neither the owner of Energeticforum nor the owner of Overunity.com?:
Quote from: e2matrix on November 13, 2012, 09:36:57 PM
I think Stephen would be upset if he knew you hot linked all the diagrams at EF to here.
If Energeticforum is Aaron's forum then blindly converting attachments to JPEG and ruining their quality is Aaron's fault (not Stephen's and not Stefan's).
Both open perfectly readable for me.
Quote from: stprue on November 14, 2012, 01:55:56 PM
Both open perfectly readable for me.
Only because you apparently don't pay attention to details.
Besides, your "ability" is not a criterion of quality - I could generate an image with such sharp edges that the ringing artifacts of JPEG
lossy compression would distort them beyond readability.
Quote from: verpies on November 14, 2012, 01:52:15 PM
No, overunity.com is Stefan Hartmann's forum.
If Aaron is the owner of Energeticforum, then who is Stephen ???
The name of "Stefan" is an equivalent of "Steven", "Stephan" etc. in some languages. Here it's just a matter of a typo.
Hmmm... perhaps there's something wrong with your image viewer. At 100 percent size, I can't really see much difference in the two files. There is a bit of color shift. The jpg is smaller, but I've also seen cases where that didn't happen, too.
I downloaded both files and brought them up in Image Viewer and had them display at 100 percent, then took a screenshot and saved that as .png so there shouldn't be any further distortion.
Quote from: verpies on November 14, 2012, 01:52:15 PM
Maybe for photos but not for my diagram.
Did you check the file sizes before you wrote this?
Compare my crisp PNG (http://www.overunity.com/13090/mr-cleans-device/dlattach/attach/117433/) and Gadgetmall's blurry JPG (http://www.overunity.com/13091/donald-smith-device-self-looping-no-cap-no-batteries-bright-lights/dlattach/attach/117437/).
No, overunity.com is Stefan Hartmann's forum.
If Aaron is the owner of Energeticforum, then who is Stephen ???
Why did you write this statement below, if Stephen is neither the owner of Energeticforum nor the owner of Overunity.com?:If Energeticforum is Aaron's forum then blindly converting attachments to JPEG and ruining their quality is Aaron's fault (not Stephen's and not Stefan's).
Just a typo - what Qwert said. I think the spelling 'Stefan' is less common here than it probably is in Germany where he's from. I'm surprised you didn't understand my intent with only an error in spelling and it seems you still don't want to deal with the fact that you are taking bandwidth from one web site for another web site. It's not okay and I simply wanted to make you aware of that so you don't get booted from here. It's no real sweat off my back - it's not my nickel and I'm no mod. Just trying to help. The solution as I mentioned is simple enough. Just upload to any of dozens of free image hosting sites or your own web site if you have one. I can even tell you where you can get your own free web site - ad free. But we are way off topic here and we don't really need to continue this. It's your choice to do whatever you want with the info.
Quote from: TinselKoala on November 14, 2012, 04:19:17 PM
Hmmm... perhaps there's something wrong with your image viewer. At 100 percent size, I can't really see much difference in the two files. There is a bit of color shift. The jpg is smaller, but I've also seen cases where that didn't happen, too.
I downloaded both files and brought them up in Image Viewer and had them display at 100 percent, then took a screenshot and saved that as .png so there shouldn't be any further distortion.
Are you using Ubuntu Linux system? Just curious.
Quote from: hoptoad on November 15, 2012, 12:49:06 AM
Are you using Ubuntu Linux system? Just curious.
Yes, for years. Just upgraded the system to 11.10 last week. I don't use the (now default) "Unity" desktop, though, I use the old Gnome desktop with standard windows and menus.
I much prefer it to Windows of any flavor.
I have noticed that the Image Viewer app does an amazing job of interpolation. You can blow up images to 4000 percent and the algorithm smooths things out so you don't see pixelation even at that magnification. So if you want a real honest magnified view at great mags, where you see your actual pixels themselves blown up large, you should use a different viewer or a graphics program.
I don't think this happens at normal 100 percent mag, though, but I might be wrong. Perhaps the Image Viewer is correcting and masking any jpg artefacts in the jpg version of verpies schematic. I'll have to check in another program, I guess.
T.K. thanks for the info. Is it very involved to make Ubuntu 11.10 run gnome by default on start-up? Sorry everybody for the off topic question
Quote from: TinselKoala on November 14, 2012, 04:19:17 PM
Hmmm... perhaps there's something wrong with your image viewer. At 100 percent size, I can't really see much difference in the two files. There is a bit of color shift. The jpg is smaller,
No, according to your own screenshot, the PNG is smaller (27.6kB) versus the JPG (42.5kB).
Case in point:
Below am attaching a magnification of your own screenshot. The second one is with a yellow flood fill for emphasis. (click on them to view them at full resolution)
If you think that JPG are as good as PNGs for crisp diagrams, after seeing this, then we'll never reach a consensus.
Great, so one file has better quality then the other and both can easily be read. Thank you for the analysis.
Quote from: e2matrix on November 15, 2012, 12:26:04 AM
Just a typo - what Qwert said. I think the spelling 'Stefan' is less common here than it probably is in Germany where he's from.
When it comes to names and proper names the rule is not to change spellings. I did not know the owner of the Energetic forum and sincerely thought that you mention Stephen as its owner.
Quote from: e2matrix on November 15, 2012, 12:26:04 AM
I'm surprised you didn't understand my intent with only an error in spelling and it seems you still don't want to deal with the fact that you are taking bandwidth from one web site for another web site.
Yes, crosslinking takes the bandwidth from one web site for another web site, but I am not convinced that Stefan would mind since such links bring more users to his site.
As for my reason for crosslinking, I think I already made a good point why JPEGs are
INFERIOR to PNGs for crisp schematic diagrams. (remember that EnergeticForum does not allow downloading PNGs)
Yes, an external depository for images would offload overunity.com but it would also stop bringing users to overunity.com. I will stop crosslinking if Stefan admonishes me and I will send you the image privately so you can link an
unaltered copy of it on EnergeticForum, somehow.
BTW: An external depository is an unacceptable option to me if the owner of such repository requires registration or is not a private company or cooperates with non-private companies or engages in compiling dossiers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dossier) of its users (e.g. like FaceBook).
Quote from: stprue on November 15, 2012, 07:33:57 AM
Great, so one file has better quality then the other and both can easily be read. Thank you for the analysis.
It's not only about the aesthetics of the diagram and its size.
I sometimes waste an hour editing diagrams that were saved as JPEGs because I cannot flood select colors easily and quickly edit these diagrams when I want to make some changes or additions (see the example with the yellow flood fill).
All of this because someone who edited the diagram before, though that JPEGs are "good for everything" and saved it in lossy this format.
Quote from: hoptoad on November 15, 2012, 03:43:40 AM
T.K. thanks for the info. Is it very involved to make Ubuntu 11.10 run gnome by default on start-up? Sorry everybody for the off topic question
Well, it was "involved" enough to piss me off royally and it soured me on my long-term relationship with Ubuntu for a couple of days. Basically you have to download and install a couple of packages, then the login screen gives you the option to use "Gnome Classic" and another old gnome along with Unity, and once you select it, then that becomes the default. It lost my desktop image, though, and I had to re-find it. There are guides to follow, like this one:
http://www.flynsarmy.com/2011/11/how-to-make-ubuntu-11-10-more-usable/
But there are still a few minor annoyances, like the clock is in the center of the top taskbar and I can't figure out how to move it to the right side where I used to have it, and I can't figure out how to make Thunar my default file manager (tried all the suggested ways, no luck) .... but after a day of fooling around I am back to full functionality with a familiar desktop, and many things do seem to work better. Programs launch faster, the webcam video system works better, WINE seems to work better... but it took a couple of hours of frustration to get my Canon printer back working and shared across the WLAN. The ATI graphics driver upgrade worked flawlessly, though... thank goodness.
I and a lot of other Linux users are going, "What the hell were they thinking?" This is the first Ubuntu upgrade I've done that forced a total change in the look and feel of the system and required major effort to get back to "normal".... and I've been using Ubuntu since version 6, and on a dozen computers.
But it is possible to get back to "normal" and with better performance .... only now I'm scared to upgrade to version 12. I really think they shot themselves in the foot, and I have read rumors that it was because of some conflict in personnel. Hopefully they will remember in the future that computers are tools and people use them to work, and if the OS changes so much between sub-versions that the users become Beta-testers.... that is not a good thing. Ah well.... what do I expect for free.
Quote from: verpies on November 15, 2012, 07:23:14 AM
No, according to your own screenshot, the PNG is smaller (27.6kB) versus the JPG (42.5kB).
Right, sorry, I mis-looked. Often it is the other way around, though.
Quote
Case in point:
Below am attaching a magnification of your own screenshot. The second one is with a yellow flood fill for emphasis. (click on them to view them at full resolution)
If you think that JPG are as good as PNGs for crisp diagrams, after seeing this, then we'll never reach a consensus.
I am afraid I don't get your point. I never said "JPGs are as good as PNGs for crisp diagrams" with yellow flood fill and extreme enlargement. I said that at 100 percent display, I couldn't see much difference in the specific files you posted, and I provided a shot to show you what it looks like to me. I don't get the point of your yellow flood fill, and the text and diagrams still look the same to me, even at your extreme enlargement. The reds look a bit different in hue.
I'm not arguing with you; I agree with your basic points, I'm just describing what I see, and apparently it is different from what you see.
There have been cases on this forum where people have thought, "I can't upload a .bmp file, so I'll just change the extension to .jpg and upload it anyway......" The forum software is pretty smart, displays it inline as a jpg thumbnail but then when you go to download it and open it.... you discover that it's really a .bmp despite the extension.
I do some advanced image processing, and for final display on the web, I generally convert the final processed .tiff file to uncompressed jpg, since it's supported widely, and my old PixInsightLE doesn't have the option to convert to .png anyway. I don't feel that I lose any significant resolution by doing that, as long as the image is relatively small, like under 1200 pixels wide. But I'm not talking about diagrams with straight lines and lots of text, either.
@ TK - Thanks for the info re: gnome. Much appreciated!
Okay, can we now please come back to the original topic of discussing the Mr.Clean device after you have seen
that you also can upload PNG files over here ?
Too bad MrClean
https://www.youtube.com/user/kdkinen/videos?flow=grid&view=0
could not himself replicate it stable....
Do you think it was just powered by the 9 Volts battery only ??
Regards, Stefan.
Sorry about the digression.
Personally I don't know, with the schematic given. I'd like to know more about the unconnected extra parallel wire: how is it laid out, how long, etc.
I know that MrClean finds the effect hard to reproduce, himself... the most puzzling part (other than the self-running, of course!) to me is the charge-discharge events that we see in the voltage indication. I'd expect to see either a steady voltage, or a steady charge, or a steady discharge. But periods of several seconds of each.... seems really weird. But I suppose none of us really understand how a self-running circuit is _supposed_ to act... so who knows. The long time constant makes me suspect the 1F cap is involved somehow.
I'm all out of toroids and funds so I can't try to "replicate" this, but I would like to know if anyone has compared the actual performance, somehow, of the bitoroid winding design shown here, with just a single toroid with all three windings on it. How does the performance differ?