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Hello everyone.

MISSION STATEMENT:

QuoteThis thread is for those that ARE INTERESTED to EXPERIMENT in the research of this Crystal Cell Battery that we want to build and run for YOUR LIFE TIME.

I am presenting videos and instructions on how to do it.


I hope and expect that those participating will present their own experiments and empirical data and since I am the moderator I can and WILL forbid and remove any access to this thread for those that are not being an active experimenter.


Participate and God bless you.


Fausto Heikkinen.

ps: Document PDF with log of cells from experimenters (please let me know what to change).
ps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFQ6nqdtLqM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFQ6nqdtLqM)


ps: Dec-20-14: [Moderator] I had to change substantially the objectives of this thread so that other members can participate with a much lower requirement. The previous requirement were to stringent and the formula proposed by me was too advanced for now. Nonetheless I am presenting here an older formula (F149) that I have very good success, although not an eternal cell, that makes possible for more practical applications (Teo is on that already). So, please, come and participate with what you have.

I like it and i will run the tests as best as I can do them and not deviate from the plan however I just want you to know I'm running tests on my own designs but to help in this field and prove it's uses I'll happily follow your instructions to the T
just to add to the data pool

Ps. Sorry

Quote from: jonfrommanahawkin1 on October 28, 2014, 02:20:46 PM
I like it and i will run the tests as best as I can do them and not deviate from the plan however I just want you to know I'm running tests on my own designs but to help in this field and prove it's uses I'll happily follow your instructions to the T
just to add to the data pool

Ps. Sorry

That's cool. Share as much as you can the build process of the cell, if you want the EL, water and the graph, the graph please. I am sorry too, but glad we are in good standing.

Fausto.

Hey pengo I have followed your work for a while. Good job by the way. I would be interested in your proposal. Just can't fully commit at this time. Just moved from Florida to Washington state. If you don't have your ten candidates by the new year I would be interested in experimenting with you. I have some vids on my YouTube channel BackRoomLabs. I will be returning to the crystal cell experiments after I finish a wind turbine project I am working on. My goal with these cells is to find the best way to combine super caps and effeciant ringer to power 120 vac LEDs. Charge the caps in the day then at night use stored power along with the cells themselves to use for good light at night. If you have found a very stable mix that isn't destroying the magnesium that is something to build on. I have only made five different cells. The oldest ones going are over 1 1/2 year old.  Anyways keep up the work and I'll be back messing with these cells soon. I'll post an update on my cells soon being as they are all quite a bit older now.

BTW everyone,


this thread is ONLY FOR EXPERIMETERS to the TESTS that I will propose. If you want to show your data for different tests and formulas, please, post it at the other thread that is for that.


Here I want ONLY the data for the formula I have and the tests I will propose.


Thank you all,


Fausto.


ps: For the posts that are not relevant I will leave it for a few days or so and then move them to another thread.

Question to ALL:

Is it possible to have a battery with BOTH ELECTRODE METALS being the SAME METAL and produce constant output power?

For example positive is Aluminium and negative being Aluminium.

Fausto.

Glad to see you continuing your research. I went through the entire set up posts earlier this year for the energetic forum's bedini earth light thread - it took me a bit over 14 weeks. I intend to produce some more videos later this year (in Dec.) and I have some notes on your earlier formulas, which I tried. One included dried water glass.

I would be willing to replicate and test your formula, but only after I have shared what I have learned so far. I can't get the computer and the software set up here, but other than that, I can meet all your other criteria and make daily notes on performance manually.

Just for fun, here's a few of my experiments from earlier this year:

These are some aluminum / copper cells, which did ok for about 7 months, but I had to cut them open and water them again - they died. 6' of 17 AWG aluminum wire, 2' of 24 AWG copper wire and a 50/50 mix of soda wash and borax and some water. I am not sure how to get an image on here, so here's a link to the image.

http://offthegridsolar.net/Solar/REC_images/CopperAluminum.JPG (http://offthegridsolar.net/Solar/REC_images/CopperAluminum.JPG)

I also created 9 lead alum batteries per bedini's instructions. 2 with alum only and 7 using the final formula he showed on that thread, which was more complicated and the chemicals much harder to find, but I got them. The alum only seem to perform just as well, so if I created more, I would probably just use alum. For these motorcyle dry cell betteries, the mix was 3 cups alum and 3 cups of water per battery. These batteries will run a 2 mA load for months and a quick recharge using a solar panel with about 20 watts seems to make them stronger and longer lasting each time I charge them.

http://offthegridsolar.net/Solar/REC_images/LeadAlum.JPG (http://offthegridsolar.net/Solar/REC_images/LeadAlum.JPG)

I built a bunch of SS SSG's just for recharging these alum batteries - this one was overkill.

http://offthegridsolar.net/Solar/REC_images/BediniSS_SSG-modified.png (http://offthegridsolar.net/Solar/REC_images/BediniSS_SSG-modified.png)

The one I currently use is about 5x7 cm (built on a small circuit board) - tiny... The above has been disassembled and the parts recycled for other projects, but it's a cool picture!

So... I would love to participate, and will at least follow your progress. Thank you so much Fausto! You are an inspiration... at least to me!

Teo Graca

Quote from: plengo on November 01, 2014, 10:02:33 PM
Question to ALL:

Is it possible to have a battery with BOTH ELECTRODE METALS being the SAME METAL and produce constant output power?

For example positive is Aluminium and negative being Aluminium.

Fausto.

I have seen this done by others and done it myself, so yes. Any standard lead acid battery does this. Bedini charges his batteries to create a differential chemical on the plates... I think he calls this "priming" - but for small crystal batteries that aren't charged, I don't think this does well at all and it requires a difference in the amounts of metal used per pos/neg. There are a lot of aluminum capacitor experiments out there showing equal mass, but again, this requires charging. -teo

Quote from: plengo on November 01, 2014, 10:02:33 PM
Is it possible to have a battery with BOTH ELECTRODE METALS being the SAME METAL and produce constant output power?
For example positive is Aluminium and negative being Aluminium.
Fausto.

From my notes on DiveFlyFish - smaller cathode provides more power...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ilhypkTrU8

... but for copper and magnesium (and copper and aluminum), different materials than DiveFlyFish is working with, I have found that less copper provides more power... Interesting..

Quote from: tgraca on November 03, 2014, 07:29:08 PM
From my notes on DiveFlyFish - smaller cathode provides more power...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ilhypkTrU8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ilhypkTrU8)

... but for copper and magnesium (and copper and aluminum), different materials than DiveFlyFish is working with, I have found that less copper provides more power... Interesting..

I have been finding the same as you guys. Smaller is more voltage BUT the internal resistance is not the same. In the case of DeveFlyFish, I think the smaller graffite rod has much smaller resistance than the bigger one which would explain his data. When he measured the ohms of the rod one cannot count the reading simply because the ohm meter will not work when the battery is producing power. It is a wrong reading in that case.


Fausto.

I have found that there is an equilibrium in anode and cathode sizes where if you increase the anode size and not increase the cathode size the total current reaches a point where the size is no longer beneficial. However increasing the cathode size and not changing the anode size will double and triple the total current in comparison.

But on the topic of materials I have found the more conductive the anode material is the higher the amperage will be. But the voltage is usually limited to its galvanic potential

As an example mg is -1.50
where aluminum is -1.0
and gold silver and carbon (graphite respectively) is +2.0

It all really boils down to its  internal resistance and potential (respectively)

Jon

I built 21 ibpointless2 batteries on a piece of wood about a year ago to test the inconsistencies in the builds - what worked better and worse. From my notes after testing and dissecting them "cathode and anode further apart worked better" - if you look at the DiveFlyFish video, you will notice that the smaller cathode was further away from the anode and that could be the performance difference and why it shows much more resistance.

The problem with building cells to be used together is that it's near impossible to get them exactly to specs, so I tend to go with single cells and tune them to the circuit I am using, or visa versa. Here's a fun pic of the beginning of the build of the 21 ibpointless2 batteries! - teo

http://offthegridsolar.net/Solar/REC_images/IB_Pointless2-21_Cells.jpg (http://offthegridsolar.net/Solar/REC_images/IB_Pointless2-21_Cells.jpg)

Cool test there. When you have the distance between the poles, do you have more electrolyte also?

Quote from: plengo on November 04, 2014, 11:52:14 AM
Cool test there. When you have the distance between the poles, do you have more electrolyte also?

Not necessarily, but my notes suggest more electrolyte was better. I think that would be a good test.

Quote from: jonfrommanahawkin1 on November 03, 2014, 09:40:33 PM
But on the topic of materials I have found the more conductive the anode material is the higher the amperage will be. But the voltage is usually limited to its galvanic potential

I think graphite and magnesium would be an interesting test. I haven't done that yet... see...

http://offthegridsolar.net/Solar/REC_images/AnodeCathode.gif (http://offthegridsolar.net/Solar/REC_images/AnodeCathode.gif)

Teo

Quote from: tgraca on November 05, 2014, 09:48:19 AM
I think graphite and magnesium would be an interesting test. I haven't done that yet... see...

http://offthegridsolar.net/Solar/REC_images/AnodeCathode.gif (http://offthegridsolar.net/Solar/REC_images/AnodeCathode.gif)

Teo

I have done that. It ate Magnesium like butter.  ;D


Fausto.

Quote from: tgraca on November 03, 2014, 07:29:08 PM
From my notes on DiveFlyFish - smaller cathode provides more power...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ilhypkTrU8

I built a cell this morning to test mass of copper versus mass of mag and found that less mag works fine. I have about 12" of 24 AWG copper and embedded a 1" piece of mag strip in the cell with only about 1/4" in the electrolyte and am getting 1.6V and 6 mA. Here's another guy on another thread here that ran a similar test. He says he gets 1.8 V and about 1/2 mA...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6cxcAdVgqQ

Fausto, when I get back, I am going to run my initial tests with small amounts of mag and see how that goes and put various distances between the electrodes to see what works better, which is the other issue I want to test... should be fun! -teo

PS - if you watch this video, take note on why you might want to solder some alligator clips onto the ends of your probes... I have done this with all of my meters and am glad of it...

Yeap, I do use alligator clips attached to my probes. It is quite funny to see his problems too.  ;D


I also have done that kind of cell and one day I went to attached the alligator clip to the Mg and it came out just the tip of it, in other words, it was totally corrode, GONE. I was so disappointed.


Magnesium is excellent for output power BUT very sensitive to corrosion. Water and copper in any shape will eat it up, no matter how much epson, rochelle, salt and any other household items one can think.


One of my findings is around water retention in the CRYSTAL but not in the electrolyte. Easier said than done.


Another thing that is misleading many tests I see in videos is the fact the OXYGEN will accelerate the oxidation of one of the poles (cathode or anode) and destroy the cell making the whole chemistry another think of its own and skewing the results.


That is one of the reasons I first use transparent packing tape and later casting into a resin. The results are very dramatic. The graphs also show the difference in its curve (more linear and less exponential) and also allows you to see better the real results of the cell decay.


Another thing I found out (my monkey science) that more than one crystal IS GOOD. THe different growth rate and water absorption of the crystals have an interesting effect. Difficult to explain from my intuition into more exact science terms. One can test that by changing one item only in its formula by adding another crystal.


Here is my understanding of partially what is happening in the cell (besides regular corrosion). The plates creates the potential difference , volts (duuu, that one every body knows). The crystal attracts and holds the water and as it grows absorbing the water it causes water electron loss that is attracted by the voltage differential of the plates. THis is PART of the ion exchange of regular REDOX. Next the crystal starts vibrating in its piezo effect when the electrons flow, that is very interesting (i can see that in the graphs), therefore, more output power, so a kind of snow ball effect here. Next water becoming unbalanced because of loosing electrons will cause the crystals to EXPEL out its own water to balance out the electrolyte too charge (pos or negative), this causes the piezo effect AGAIN but this time in the reverse order, recharging the cell.


This cycle will continue while the regular corrosion continues until there are no more plates left.


Now, in my opinion this is the EXTRA uncounted energy that many see intuitively in the cells but cannot really account for it, for lack of a BASELINE.


In the other thread (http://www.overunity.com/15043/new-cell-type-nanocrystal-oxide/)  Jon is doing a great work in conjunction with profitis to stablish that BASELINE in more scientific terms. This will help us a lot.


Fausto.

Quote from: plengo on November 05, 2014, 04:38:17 PM
Yeap, I do use alligator clips attached to my probes. It is quite funny to see his problems too.  ;D I also have done that kind of cell and one day I went to attached the alligator clip to the Mg and it came out just the tip of it, in other words, it was totally corrode, GONE. I was so disappointed.

My mag strips break off all the time... I find that if you keep the corrosive salts or other electrolyte materials away from the mag strip, it lasts much longer. With the glue portion of the electrolyte (if used), it's fairly easy not to put the other corrosive electrolyte materials near the mag strip. I notice that copper doesn't seem to have much trouble with this, but I do the same for copper and other materials anyway. ibpointless2 made a great breakthrough with glue - thanks ib! One technique I use is to pull multiple mag strips taped together out of the cell, like the one I sent you... it's got more to be broken, so it's stronger... I'll check in while I'm away, so let me know what you think! - teo

PS - I am checking my cell #175 from back in April this year and it builds the voltage up to 1116 mV under load on that JT circuit I sent you... the crystal cell (#327) I sent you could only build it up to about 1076 mV... I think there is more length of electrodes in the earlier version... I just think it's amazing that this thing still kicks after 7 months.. fun!

PSS - if anyone is interested, this is the current configuration I am using for my JT circuit and my current electrolyte mix design for burying the crystal cell with a plant in my home... http://offthegridsolar.net/Solar/REC_images/JT2c.png

Fausto, I ordered the last of what I need to replicate your crystal cells. It should be in late next week. Let me know how that circuit is working for you. I came back from vacation just now and found mine still blinking with 418 mV in the cap. When I left over a week ago, it had about that much in it... interesting! -teo

Fausto, sorry about my terrible build and major fail, but I did learn and reaffirm a few things. This video shows the build in a short slide show and the 45 min. charge, which was at least less than ideal. It was a fun and very messy project! Enjoy! I'll share more as I move onto experimenting with variations of your formula F134. Thanks for sharing! - teo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFAVwLn4mgQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFAVwLn4mgQ)

Note: the mag strips held up fine, but the copper wire completely disintegrated. I made 4 additional batteries with the leftover electrolyte (6 total) and will be testing them all over the next week. I'm building some of those flashing circuits for long term testing and will report my findings.

PS - I left this video as "unlisted" so anyone can view it, but it doesn't show up on searches. I hate sharing failures, unless it goes toward showing how I got a success, but this one's for you Fausto as I learn.


moderator: Cell #345 Teo Graca

Quote from: tgraca on November 21, 2014, 10:36:15 AMFausto, sorry about my terrible build and major fail, but I did learn and reaffirm a few things. This video shows the build in a short slide show and the 45 min. charge, which was at least less than ideal. It was a fun and very messy project! Enjoy! I'll share more as I move onto experimenting with variations of your formula F134. Thanks for sharing! - teohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFAVwLn4mgQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFAVwLn4mgQ)Note: the mag strips held up fine, but the copper wire completely disintegrated. I made 4 additional batteries with the leftover electrolyte (6 total) and will be testing them all over the next week. I'm building some of those flashing circuits for long term testing and will report my findings.PS - I left this video as "unlisted" so anyone can view it, but it doesn't show up on searches. I hate sharing failures, unless it goes toward showing how I got a success, but this one's for you Fausto as I learn.

Teo,


Thanks man for the video. I am laughing my butt off with this video. The music really helps.  ;D


Hey, don't worry about failures, there are no such a thing, we always learn from those, so right there is a success.


Ok, let's go to the corrections and observations.
First now I know where you are at your lab, great. Now I have a baseline of YOU. Perfect.


The mix was too much man. You only need a little bit (like the tsp not TSP) and water, 70ml. Looks like you used many TABLE spoons. Too much. What you used there I could make about 100 cells. So next time use tsp (tea spoon) little small.


On the build you used copper wire, that will not work I think, since I use copper pipe. You could get those cheap at homedepot or local hardware store. The 1/4 inch pipe probably will be excellent for the Magnesium ribbons you are using.


Next you need KITCHEN towels paper. Wrap the Magnesium with it BUT BEFORE you wet the paper with the SOLUTION (not pasta) of the formula. This became a "soup-thermo-static" cell  ;D .


You said in the video "too much water", but it is the opposite. Take a medication bottle like those from CVS, put 50 ml of distilled water, and put the powders inside and mix it. It will be just a black water, BUT VERY WATERY. A solution.


Cut paper towel to the length of the Mg ribbons and wet it with the solution, wrap it around the Mg. Now put the "roll" inside the copper pipe. Make sure to use lots of paper so that the Mg with the Paper (more like a stick now) will be tight snug inside the pipe. Like a hot dog looking thing, where the pipe is the bread and the Mg with Paper is the sausage.


THEN apply the 62v and let it sizzle. It will start slowly until it becomes very hot and it will sizzle violently. You should see lots of water vapor going out.


Once the current drops to 200ma or so, you are done. Take the cell and let it dry completely, COMPLETELY. Let it become dry like a dead 100 years old bone.  :P


You should measure its voltage and should give you something around .7 or so volts. Current should be pretty much ZERO.  But Fausto, ZERO current? what kind of cell is that? ??? That is a cell that will run for a LONG TIME. Look at the graph below.


Once you get that we will continue. You are on the RIGHT PATH, just the wrong mixes and proportions and the wrong geometry.


Now, the copper WILL corrode a little bit, about 1 mm or less so using a wire it will disappear like it happen to you. When I saw that I laugh to almost pee in my pants.  ;D


The "Thermo" comes from the COOKING, high temperature, high enough to cause a solid electrolysis which will build a 1mm or so tick layer of copper oxide of sorts. The Magnesium should become pretty black but with a much smaller thickness, like .1 mm.


The "Static" comes from the VOLTAGE/CURRENT applied and its effect on the crystal that will grow.


You also forgot one very important thing which I did not mention (I was hoping to talk to you BEFORE you would start that), as it cooks you should add Epson solution to help the process and accelerate AND build the crystal inside the PAPER. THAT'S IS THE PURPOSE of the paper, a medium for crystal growth.


Well, this video is EXCELLENT, entertaining and fun. Next time you will be much better. Learn from what we do!


The graph below shows what this kind of cell should give when properly done. This graph is 4 cells together running one 10 mm LED green for 400 k seconds and she is still going, no signs of the MG or Copper to corrode aside from the initial corrosion caused by the forming process. This cell does not need water either. Born and run, that's it. The stability is something out of this world. (I hope skeptics start looking with more attention).







Fausto.

@ALL,


A video showing in more detail how to build and form the cell is coming.  (video: http://youtu.be/-fK2tLQdXp0)


Now, FOR THOSE willing to know the formula (like I gave to Teo) I will require that you send me a picture or video showing the lab, the meters, power supply and the materials (copper, mg, paper, etc). I will also need your PHYSICAL address and EMAIL.


No freebies here, If I don't know who you are I will not tell you the formula, simple. We are building trust here. Teo can attest that I DO disclaim a formula for this cell on the video to him but we agreed not to disclosure to anyone. The videos presented in this thread are also to be NOT DISCLOSED anywhere and the video clearly shows that, so please, no leaking since it will only make me go away.

I NEED EXPERIMENTERS here, people that will WORK on it and make a better world. I am not interested in people that will only get spoon fed and run away building their cells for profit and not making a better world for us.


I do not require geniuses here neither experienced builders (those can participate too). Anyone can participate as long as it follows my tests.


Fausto.

Long term testing set up with JT circuit designed to test 1 cell. I
don't like to run them in series because any 2 cells I build are
never exactly the same and it's not a fair test per cell. Testing
cells individually allows you to check the subtle differences in the
builds and the performance of each cell. So, here's the long term
test I set up for my incomplete build of your formula F134. This
is my 344th Crystal Cell Build with an Fausto's formula partially
cooked and incomplete. (see my previous post)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFN74PfxFtA

Notes from first both cells: The 2 cells are both measuring about 2M
ohms. I didn't add any paper around the electrodes and there is at
least 1/4 inch between them, which accounts for the high impedance. I
had 3 teaspoons of part 1 of Fausto's electrolyte in these two cells and
never made it to part 2 of the mix. Fausto mentioned that 100 ohms of
impedance is ideal, so I will work on that. I do not have a dependable
power supply yet, so I may just cook the next batch. Fausto showed
about 170 degrees F / 76 C at in the cook, so I will go for that while I
work on the power supply issue.

Fausto, Here's some details on my long term test for the uncooked version of part 1 of your mix.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQX4H_Mk3N4

I have 4 more uncooked cells - 2 with part 1 and 2 with part 2 of your mix... They are still wet from yesterday. I will put them under a long term test tomorrow and place them on my little shelf! lol

Excellent work Teo. I will build that Joule Thief of yours, that is exactly what I need.


I am actually surprised that the "soup thermal static" cell is giving 2 ma cooked. I did not expect that, but again, I did not expect the build to be as you did.


You see (and hopefully everyone), one's tests shows things that others have not done. I have not done the way Teo did and still works very well. Hopefully it will run a long time.


BTW Teo, those cells are for NOT ADD WATER EVER. Please, let them die and see for how long they will run, OK?


Again, THANK YOU DUDE, excellent work there.


Fausto.

Teo,


where did you get your Magnesium Ribbon??

Fausto.

Quote from: plengo on November 21, 2014, 04:51:39 PM
Teo, where did you get your Magnesium Ribbon?? Fausto.

I get it on eBay for about $40/pound, but it's less than $3 per order delivered for 25oz aka 70 feet, which lasts me a couple months... There is no real discounts on ordering more, so just order what you need and give it about a month to get to you... keep some in stock...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271538911816?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Teo

Fausto, Here's some interesting info. on my 4 additional builds of your formula F134. I had to trash these, but will post what I learned after I tore them apart later.... http://youtu.be/QM2fVrTtYk0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YS4-NRrB3Y
Crystal Cell Builds#'s 347-350 - Formula F134 builds 3-6

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41CA6Ak5lkA

Teo,


great videos, really thank you. When you say "part 2" of F134 you mean the solution of Epson on top of F134 while applying current?


That solution is only necessary to START the process if current does not goes through the mix when forming the cell.


Anyway, as you see, just "part 2" will simply corrode the cell just like every other formula out there. F134 with the current applied is performing much better then the one not "cooked".


Also REALLY COOKING in a oven as you can see is not the same as using the applying current/voltage to the cells at all. The current applied (I called FC62 - process 62 volts/current) is a key element in protecting the metals.


I wonder how long it will run the first cell you made with that green light. This way of doing the cells with the "pasta of F134" is very unique and I have not done that way but I will give it a try and see what I find.


I know for sure that as I show in my video it will work and work extremely well holding the voltage steadily while under load lighting an LED.

Fausto.

Quote from: plengo on November 22, 2014, 03:15:39 PM
When you say "part 2" of F134 you mean the solution of Epson on top of F134 while applying current?
current applied (I called FC62 - process 62 volts/current) is a key element in protecting the metals.

Part 2 was the alum and epson - there's espon, but no alum, in part 1 -  per your directions...
I don't have a dependable power supply, so I will have to work around that for now...

Here's an idea I will try tomorrow... to bind manganese dioxide to the mag strips... I'll do it outside in case of some explosive reaction! lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFrrCKs559g

Here's an idea I was looking at last year from NurdRage....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvMVlhBmv7M

Here's another interesting and old video i found from my notes on manganese dioxide and Epson salt - from lidmotor...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzfnIQHu4bI

And of course, Bedini's work with manganese, but he's using a type that is not as safe as MnO2... He's getting 1+ amps out of a dry cell...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5umdX2nraMU&feature=youtu.be

Quote from: tgraca on November 22, 2014, 06:46:15 PM
And of course, Bedini's work with manganese, but he's using a type that is not as safe as MnO2... He's getting 1+ amps out of a dry cell...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5umdX2nraMU&feature=youtu.be

Mn2O3

I am aware of those videos. Hey I would like to know the voltage of that FIRST F134 you cooked and attached a joule thief with a green light, please.


Please, leave that cell running for a few months and keep tracking the voltage here in the forum. I have a few insights about that build that is very interesting. Btw, what is the number of that cell?


What was the result of the other F134 you cooked on the oven? What was the performance of those compared to the first one (the green light)?


Fausto.

Quote from: plengo on November 23, 2014, 10:44:13 AM
I am aware of those videos. Hey I would like to know the voltage of that FIRST F134 you cooked and attached a joule thief with a green light, please. Please, leave that cell running for a few months and keep tracking the voltage here in the forum. I have a few insights about that build that is very interesting. Btw, what is the number of that cell? What was the result of the other F134's you cooked on the oven? What was the performance of those compared to the first one (the green light)? - Fausto.

Fausto, I have reports posted above with videos on those 4 cooked cells and the first 24 hour status on my 2 replications of your builds. I dissected the 4 stove cooked cells, there is a video posted above on those too. I'll test these around noon each day and report back. They should run the JT/LED circuit until they get down to about 6 mV or less, so I won't do anything with them except send reports here until they are dead. It will be interesting to see how the uncooked versus cooked perform.

Here's a video report on cell #351 from yesterday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UChgvI68y5M

This is a completely different build - no cooking - no Epsom on the mag strip - PVC pipe - silicon sealed wet with some air inside (tapped in place dry). It's also a very different formula - almost no MnO2, no alum, very little Epson salt. I'll run the first test later today.

I also built another cell this morning, similar to this, but with much more copper - a copper pipe as the anode instead of the wire and watered down silicon on the mag strips to act as a semiconductor. I'll post a video on this later today too. Enjoy! - teo

Thanks for the data and videos.


I observed one thing about the "pasta cooked F134 - green light - first one" ( I still don't know the number of that build ), it does not have any space for breading inside. SO the crystal will not do its job. I built one and I also observed that.


The regular oven cooking will simply not work first because it will not create the semi-conductor's layer, very important, second it may not really dry inside as well as outside, it might actually burn too much inside if trying to dry inside.


Making those cells and using them wet will simply corrode them with time, specially the Mg ribbons. Which is good to find out faster the results.


In my video that I show in more detail the build, you will notice that I use a substantial amount of paper between the Mg and Copper and the MnO2 is INSIDE the paper not necessarily in direct contact with either the Copper or Magnesium. I do that in purpose since I am NOT TRYING TO PROTECT NEITHER METAL. It is a little weird to say that, but think, If there is no corrosion (my desire) why protect what is not being destroyed?


I DO HAVE A CELL THAT DOES NOT DIE, actually two. NEITHER CORRODE. It is difficult for people to believe but I do have the data to show. It is a very tricky thing to do but it works. The MnO2 will only suck the initial Hydrogen and Oxygen created on the first initial reaction and help avoid a different kind of Oxidation that I do not want. The second reason for MnO2 is for the conductivity of the crystal energy, think like a "semi-conductor for the crystal". The carbon is to reduce internal resistance and help retain water.


Mixing and pouring the mix over the metals is only good for building corrosive cells. Every layer I put in my cells have a specific purpose after hundreds of tests in all sorts of geometric builds.


That first cell you did with F134 will die, but not because corrosion but because starvation of water in the crystal and its lack of growth. It is like a flower that cannot breed when born under thorns and bushes.


So if you build something that has the spacing where the crystal and MnO2 will be together and the metals have the semi-conductor layer you will have a much greater chance of success without corrosion.


I add the crystal with the solution of Epson/Alum (part 2) while cooking so they are sucked into the paper as it cooks and dries up very quickly before they have a good chance of corroding the metals too much while forming the cell. Once the cell is cooked or zapped and because it becomes SO HOT, all the water will evaporate guaranteeing you the full dry cell inside. Those two (epson and alum) are the crystals to grow. That's why I use the highest safe voltage and high current to zap the cells, for HEAT because resistance. The electrolysis will be for the semi-conductor creation.


Once this first process is done, you will have a dormant cell that still needs activation and that step IS VERY VERY VERY TRICKY. A little bit off will kill the cell and cause corrosion and destroy the cell.


I will explain that second step whey you get the first one really correct. You will know you got the first step correct when you have the zapping done, all water evaporated, a dry cell and NO POWER output which deceives people if they build and see no power, therefore, people give up right there and stop doing that way. You might think that what I am doing is paradoxical. Which is.

In no way stop what you are doing, every test is EXTREMELY VALUABLE, I learn A LOT from your experiments. This IS THE REASON for this thread.

Fausto.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MubBsGGtxk

Status: http://youtu.be/TYovcutvUQM

I have always had mixed results with the premise that more mass in the electrodes is better, and have tested a variety of cells with more mass in the anode versus cathode and visa versa. The common thought is that more is better. I am like the kid that sees his brother burn his hand on the stove, but has to do it too to make sure it really IS hot... not just once, but many times... It's tough when you are only able to learn the hard way! lol

I noticed that Bedini tends to push more anode in his old experiments and at the conferences, and although my build #352 with MUCH more anode (copper) has less volts and amps than my build #351 (they have the same mass of cathode - magnesium), the joule thief pulled more out power out of #352. When I hook up a AA battery to this JT, it pulls even more power. I'll probably start using the copper pipes from now on because of this. They also stack easier on my little shelf! We'll find out for sure in the next few weeks!

Quote from: tgraca on November 23, 2014, 04:41:18 PM
Status: http://youtu.be/TYovcutvUQM (http://youtu.be/TYovcutvUQM)

Tx, it is dying as I expected. Interesting how the two are going their ways. Unfortunately that 344 can not be "reactivated" on my second step process.


Later check if she will accept another FC62 (voltage/current cooking process). Sometimes water gets around the electrodes since they are in the center and another zapping will cook the remaining out.


Fausto.

Quote from: plengo on November 23, 2014, 07:55:35 PM
Tx, it is dying as I expected. - Fausto.

Bedini favored hydrate #5, which I acquired earlier this year form my lead alum batteries. I still have some Sodium metasilicate pentahydrate. Do you think a pinch of this in the mix would help in future builds? -t

Quote from: tgraca on November 24, 2014, 05:35:16 AM
Bedini favored hydrate #5, which I acquired earlier this year form my lead alum batteries. I still have some Sodium metasilicate pentahydrate. Do you think a pinch of this in the mix would help in future builds? -t

I think so, yes. I have been using this element since 2012, it is today part of my latest formula.


Concerning the other Bedini formula and process using MnO3, I know that. I have been following his stuff from Energetic Forum since the beginning. I am not following that way of building because I DO have a BETTER method and cheaper and much more efficient.


He does things in a "rude and crude" manner so that he can quickly learn and then later he improves to small scale.


My goal in having you replicate WELL F134 is to lead to the next step that WILL CREATE A LASTING CELL. Which I do have a few.


Fausto.

I just went through all my notes on the crystal cells from the energy science forum, Bedini's "new home" after he left the energetic forum... In summary, his goal was a fuel cell that runs on water. Your goal is a dry cell. Bedini's cells all ate the magnesium. Your's don't. So yes, I think you are definitely onto something. I have long term experiment I am going to initiate today, which should prove interesting and helpful. I'll share it after I get it started. -t

I set up a long term test to determine the Corrosive Effects Of Electrolytes On Magnesium with 5 different electrolytes I have successfully used with magnesium and copper. I am testing alum, rochelle salt, Epsom salt, soda wash and borax in small containers of purified water with 1/4 of a teaspoon of each along with a small piece of magnesium in each container. I'll report back regularly to show which ones corrode fastest. Using one of these to help keep the magnesium from corroding would help in our quest here. So far in my experiments, I am favoring Borax, but it does limit the power of crystal cells to some extent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e1_d5kCh7Q

Quote from: tgraca on November 24, 2014, 12:27:51 PM
I set up a long term test to determine the Corrosive Effects Of Electrolytes On Magnesium with 5 different electrolytes I have successfully used with magnesium and copper. I am testing alum, rochelle salt, Epsom salt, soda wash and borax in small containers of purified water with 1/4 of a teaspoon of each along with a small piece of magnesium in each container. I'll report back regularly to show which ones corrode fastest. Using one of these to help keep the magnesium from corroding would help in our quest here. So far in my experiments, I am favoring Borax, but it does limit the power of crystal cells to some extent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e1_d5kCh7Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e1_d5kCh7Q)

Excellent. Would you ALSO do the exact same test with ONLY Copper inside and another exact same with BOTH inside, Copper and Magnesium? This way we will also see the results of each metal and the combination of the two.


Epson is excellent with the con that reduces the output by increasing substantially the resistance, but it is also a great crystal. Alum is an excellent crystal but will eat Magnesium like hot knife on butter.


Fausto.

I am out of little containers, otherwise, I would have tested a few more electrolytes. My experience is that none of these electrolytes significantly eats copper, if that is worth anything to you. This is why I don't bother with the cooking of the copper to create the black copper semiconductor. I have tried cooking the copper, but it doesn't add anything to the electrical output, so I deem it unnecessary. I think the real challenge is to keep the magnesium from getting eaten. Epsom seems to eat it faster than alum. I expect significant deterioration within a day or 2 from the Epsom. We'll see with the alum. The borax tends to solidify around the electrode and then keep any power from passing through, so this is a problem... I'll report back on this daily. -t

Cooked cell #344 shows 920 mV
Uncooked cell #345 777 mV
They are dying faster than my crystal fuel cells after watering with no additional water added for 3 days... I am sure the problem is my poor replication of F134, but it's still interesting to see the difference between the 2 builds.

Quote from: tgraca on November 24, 2014, 01:22:55 PM
Cooked cell #344 shows 920 mV
Uncooked cell #345 777 mV
They are dying faster than my crystal fuel cells after watering with no additional water added for 3 days... I am sure the problem is my poor replication of F134, but it's still interesting to see the difference between the 2 builds.

thanks for the update. So 344 went up? On your last video it was 800 something so it is going UP? Are you putting water on it?? it should not.


Fausto.

http://youtu.be/PqPZhtUvUk4

Quote from: plengo on November 24, 2014, 04:48:50 PMthanks for the update. So 344 went up? On your last video it was 800 something so it is going UP? Are you putting water on it?? it should not. - Fausto.

Both cells are down from day 1 to day 2.
Day 3 at just after noon...
Cooked cell #344 shows 920 mV
Uncooked cell #345 777 mV
5 hours later (now)
Cooked cell #344 shows 934 mV
Uncooked cell #345 754 mV

I did not water these cells... they are just on the shelf and I pull them down for testing... no shorting either... #344 is going up... not sure what this means... interesting...

Quote from: tgraca on November 24, 2014, 05:44:46 PM
#344 is going up... not sure what this means... interesting...

I have a barometer in my office and noticed something that may be causing this... It has been very dry in my office... less than 15% humidity, but it was warm today and I opened the window... it's showing 21% humidity at the moment, so maybe the cell is drawing humidity from the air... -t

Less than 4 days old, #345 died. 608 mV and 372 uA on short. It's interesting that the cell has been shorted out for a couple minutes and is still holding at around 366 uA. When setting back to the mV reading, it grew to 628 mV. I disconnected the JT and the voltage shows 1547 mV. On short, it is showing 418 uA. After 1 minute, it is showing 402 uA. I am debating whether to dissect it or water it... I'll do nothing for now, let it sit a while, and test it again in a few hours.

#344 is showing 921 mV. Barometer is showing 20% humidity.

Quote from: tgraca on November 25, 2014, 03:34:57 AM
Less than 4 days old, #345 died. 608 mV and 372 uA on short. It's interesting that the cell has been shorted out for a couple minutes and is still holding at around 366 uA. When setting back to the mV reading, it grew to 628 mV. I disconnected the JT and the voltage shows 1547 mV. On short, it is showing 418 uA. After 1 minute, it is showing 402 uA. I am debating whether to dissect it or water it... I'll do nothing for now, let it sit a while, and test it again in a few hours.

After 30+ minutes shorted, the cell is showing 335 uA. When disconnected, it built up to 1.58 volts quickly and settled at around 1.5 volts. I connected it to one of my low powered JT configurations and it lights that one fine. Not bright, but has a steady light and is drawing 180 uA. Under load, and showed 620 mV prior to hooking up the circuit. If anyone is interested, here's the configuration for the extra low powered JT circuit.

http://offthegridsolar.net/Solar/REC_images/JT_Test_Circuit2.png

Quote from: tgraca on November 25, 2014, 04:17:08 AM
I connected it to one of my low powered JT configurations and it lights that one fine. Not bright, but has a steady light and is drawing 180 uA.

Just checked it again and it's drawing 171 uA and we still have a steady light. At this rate, it will probably be dead enough to give up on it in about 6 hours...

Quote from: tgraca on November 25, 2014, 06:12:06 AM
Just checked it again and it's drawing 171 uA and we still have a steady light.

Just checked it again and it's drawing 166 uA and we still have a steady light.

Quote from: tgraca on November 24, 2014, 12:27:51 PM
I set up a long term test to determine the Corrosive Effects Of Electrolytes On Magnesium with 5 different electrolytes I have successfully used with magnesium and copper. I am testing alum, rochelle salt, Epsom salt, soda wash and borax in small containers of purified water with 1/4 of a teaspoon of each along with a small piece of magnesium in each container.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eseyy3Ubub4

What is the black (wet) / gray (dry) growth that formed on the magnesium strip with the borax solution?

I found that Magnesium Diboride (MgB2) can be synthesized from liquid infiltration of magnesium inside a granular preform of boron powders. It was called the Mg-RLI technique for MgB2 synthesis.

Could this be MgB2?

Quote from: tgraca on November 25, 2014, 07:58:13 AM
Just checked it again and it's drawing 166 uA and we still have a steady light.

At this time, it's drawing 156 uA and we still have a steady light.

Quote from: tgraca on November 25, 2014, 09:46:18 AM
At this time, it's drawing 156 uA and we still have a steady light.

At this time, it's drawing 119 uA and we still have a steady light.

Quote from: tgraca on November 25, 2014, 03:37:06 AM
#344 is showing 921 mV. Barometer is showing 20% humidity.

#344 is showing 914 mV. Barometer is showing < 15% humidity. This barometer shows "LL" when it goes below 15%.

I created a spreadsheet with the data presented showing the trends. Indeed the 344 is going down but with a much, much lower rate than the others.


In your solution tubes test, Alum seams to be the winner in "eating" Magnesium. That IS what I found out when I replicated Bedinis $200 cell. If you add carbon to that it will "eat" the Magnesium orders of magnitude faster.


I can observer clearly that the 344 is the winner so far. I would like to propose a new test around the 344 style. Create one cell just like that 344 with the exception that you will surround the Mg strip with a paper towel wet with a solution 50/50 of Epson and Alum before adding F134 and zapping with power (FC62).


Thanks again for the excellent data.


btw Teo, can you create a new PLAYLIST in your youtube account with ONLY those videos? That will be easier for me and others to find the series of videos you are creating because THEY WILL BE HISTORICAL, write that down.


Fausto.

My status update of my 1 year and 8 months old cell running without failing.

First picture is when I reactivated the cell this month. Second picture is the end of the first set of 400 thousand seconds. Buffer becomes full and the system forces me to start again. Third picture is the continuation of the second picture where I reset and continue the logging. Fourth picture is todays status which is another 380 thousand seconds.


So in total so far it has been running with empirical data for 780 thousand seconds which is the same as 9 days continuously running without ANY SIGNS OF DECAY OR OF GOING TO STOP.


The important thing to notice is the EXTREMELY CONSTANT VOLTAGE of the cell under load. The load is a 10mm Green LED and off course the LED is ON AND SHINNING.


In plain words: THIS CELL IS NOT DYING AT ALL AND NOT CORRODING!!!!!!!!
In plain words again: I DID IT.


Fausto.

Quote from: tgraca on November 25, 2014, 02:00:52 PM
#344 is showing 914 mV. Barometer is showing < 15% humidity. This barometer shows "LL" when it goes below 15%.

It's currently at #170 uA under load and 598 mV. Although the light is still on low, but steady, I would call this a dead cell.

Quote from: plengo on November 25, 2014, 03:47:02 PM
My status update of my 1 year and 8 months old cell running without failing. Fausto.

Nice work!!!

I am soaking the cathode with a borax/water solution to see if it can act as a semiconductor and make the cell last longer. There is a little MnO2 in the mix, but mostly activated carbon. I added a little Epsom salt to initiate the crystallizing process. There was a lot of air in the cell prior to sealing it - the powders were just tapped into place, so hopefully that will allow the crystals to grow as they wish and keep the cell working longer. I'll report back with the progress. See the video for the exact build.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPi8fkn1qFA

I forgot to note in the video that the pipe is 1/2" x 3"... I will be using this pipe for the next bunch of cell constructs... until I get a power supply, I will be either building them without cooking like this, or for blending the ingredients, heating to about "ouch" temperature... about 200-250 F. Note that this build took less than 10 minutes.

1066 mV on load. 1788 mV with no load. Load is holding at 4.2 mA

Quote from: tgraca on November 25, 2014, 03:47:07 PM
It's currently at #170 uA under load and 598 mV. Although the light is still on low, but steady, I would call this a dead cell.

Noticed I labeled this status wrong... this reading and dead call was for cell #345 -- the uncooked cell. I have not dissected or watered it yet. I'll just leave it on the shelf for a while until I decide which direction to go in for #345.

Quote from: tgraca on November 25, 2014, 02:00:52 PM
#344 is showing 914 mV. Barometer is showing < 15% humidity. This barometer shows "LL" when it goes below 15%.

Currently reading 896 mV under load. It's dying a slower death than #345. The barometer still shows "LL". It's dry up here.

Quote from: tgraca on November 26, 2014, 05:18:02 AM
The barometer still shows "LL". It's dry up here.

I have a barometer here, but it also has a "Hygrometer" built in, which is what I am using to report the humidity in my office... I should have been using the term "Hygrometer" for these humidity readings. Sorry if this caused any confusion.

Quote from: tgraca on November 26, 2014, 05:18:02 AM
Currently reading 896 mV under load. It's dying a slower death than #344. The barometer still shows "LL". It's dry up here.

Currently reading 888 mV under load. Want to set up a pool for predictions on when it gets down to 600 mV? My nickle bet is in less than a week from now...

Quote from: tgraca on November 24, 2014, 05:34:58 PM
http://youtu.be/PqPZhtUvUk4

Current mV reading under load - 738

Quote from: tgraca on November 23, 2014, 04:18:08 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MubBsGGtxk

Current mV reading under load - 1081

Motivational Quote from T. Edison... "I have NOT failed... I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work!" lol

Quote from: tgraca on November 26, 2014, 05:14:32 AM
Noticed I labeled this status wrong... this reading and dead call was for cell #345 -- the uncooked cell. I have not dissected or watered it yet. I'll just leave it on the shelf for a while until I decide which direction to go in for #345.

Alright... so I watered it, which didn't help much... then I broke it apart, cleaned the electrodes to see what was going on... no deterioration on the anode (copper), none I could see on the magnesium, but there was some crystal growth... I reassembled it with a little alum on the anode, but not much power. Then I coated the mix with Epsom salt... no real improvement... watered it again... nothing... then I decided to dry it, but didn't feel like waiting, so I broke out the blow torch... that helped a bit initially, but after a short bit, it seemed to kill it quickly. I'll post the video when it is done... RIP #345... fun stuff!!! lol

Quote from: tgraca on November 26, 2014, 11:37:48 AM
Alright... so I watered it, which didn't help much... then I broke it apart, cleaned the electrodes to see what was going on... no deterioration on the anode (copper), none I could see on the magnesium, but there was some crystal growth... I reassembled it with a little alum on the anode, but not much power. Then I coated the mix with Epsom salt... no real improvement... watered it again... nothing... then I decided to dry it, but didn't feel like waiting, so I broke out the blow torch... that helped a bit initially, but after a short bit, it seemed to kill it quickly. I'll post the video when it is done... RIP #345... fun stuff!!! lol

So here's a fun video showing the above stated experiments...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kk70nl1QFc4
NOTE: I said mV instead of mA a couple times... quick and dirty video...
Also, it had gone down to 0.17 mA, not 1.7 mA under load... I added some more alum on the top and it worked it's way back up to about 0.3 mA, but after a couple hours, it is back down to 0.23 mA. If a crystal cell of this size can't maintain at least 1-2 mA under load with my JT circuits, it's dead or at least useless...

Part 3 - Day 3 - The True Power Of ALUM!!!! "It eats magnesium like butter" as Fausto says!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjVi-0Wq9gY

3" copper pipe, sealed end with silicone latex, let sit for 5 hours, mixed 12 parts activated carbon, 6 parts Epsom salt, 2 parts hydrate #5, 2 parts MnO2, 1 parts borax, heated with purified water* to about 200 F until it was a thick mush, coated 48" of magnesium strips folded to about 3.25", taped on one end with masking tape, then wrapped in coffee filter, then wrapped copper on the other end and taped with masking tape (like my other builds) - this is the cathode. I placed the cathode in place and tried to spoon the electrolyte in, but it wasn't working, so I took the cathode out and spooned the electrolyte in first, then pushed the cathode in place... Well.. the sealed end got pushed out, so I resealed it with fresh caulk and then sealed the other end with caulk.  On short, the mA reading was initially over 90 mA, but after about 15 minutes, it is about 34 mA. I'll hook it up to a JT and put it on the shelf to see how long it lasts.

Note: The new addition is hydrate #5 and Borax, which I am hoping will make the cell last longer. Also, there is no air in the pipe - it is a mush, and very wet in there. It will take longer to crystallize without air. I'll report my findings....

*distilled water uses a distillation process, which DOES NOT get rid of chemical contaminants like fluoride. I have a 6 stage filtration process, which is sediment filter, activated carbon filter and 4 bone char filters to get rid of chemical contaminants from public water here in the US. They like to poison us with fluoride here in the US, so I do what I can.... I imagine that beer, wine and the distilled water you buy from the store has fluoride in it here in the US....

Quote from: tgraca on November 26, 2014, 07:31:01 AM
Currently reading 888 mV under load. Want to set up a pool for predictions on when it gets down to 600 mV? My nickle bet is in less than a week from now...

Currently reading 837 mV under load.

Quote from: tgraca on November 26, 2014, 01:09:15 PM
So here's a fun video showing the above stated experiments...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kk70nl1QFc4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kk70nl1QFc4)
NOTE: I said mV instead of mA a couple times... quick and dirty video...
Also, it had gone down to 0.17 mA, not 1.7 mA under load... I added some more alum on the top and it worked it's way back up to about 0.3 mA, but after a couple hours, it is back down to 0.23 mA. If a crystal cell of this size can't maintain at least 1-2 mA under load with my JT circuits, it's dead or at least useless...

On this video you just confirmed one of my findings concerning this formula. It does not work adding water or any other element solution after dead (WITH ONE EXCEPTION). I dumped my #149 cell from Mar-2013 into the "cemetery" because of that same reason, but there is a surprise coming.


Fausto.

Quote from: tgraca on November 26, 2014, 02:48:24 PM
Part 3 - Day 3 - The True Power Of ALUM!!!! "It eats magnesium like butter" as Fausto says!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjVi-0Wq9gY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjVi-0Wq9gY)

As you said on the video, "they will deteriorate under load". That's way I proposed to do the same experiment with both electrodes inside to simulate that "load".



Fausto.

Quote from: plengo on November 26, 2014, 04:16:55 PM
On this video you just confirmed one of my findings concerning this formula. It does not work adding water or any other element solution after dead (WITH ONE EXCEPTION). I dumped my #149 cell from Mar-2013 into the "cemetery" because of that same reason, but there is a surprise coming. - Fausto.

Did you fry your cell with a blow torch? I thought you would enjoy that! lol

Quote from: tgraca on November 26, 2014, 04:09:29 PM
Currently reading 837 mV under load.

Currently reading 840 mV under load - up a little... I ordered 4 Hygrometers today to place in various testing lab areas in my home. These go down to 0% instead of 15%, which should help me determine if humidity is a factor in the open cells. All my current cells are sealed, so this won't be a factor with them. I'll check temperature too and maybe throw a couple in the fridge and freezer in the future to see how they are affected.

Quote from: tgraca on November 26, 2014, 04:56:18 PM
Did you fry your cell with a blow torch? I thought you would enjoy that! lol

I feel like Frankenstein trying to resurrect this cell... It was just sitting here with the multimeter shorted on the uA readings for many hours and it was still hanging (on short) at around 120 uA, so I gave it a quick spray of water and it climbed up to about 1/2 mA, which is almost usable. Then I sprinkled about 5 pinches of alum on top and watched. It was over 2 mA for a while and after about 15 minutes is still over 1 mA. I am not sure why I think the blow torch would help... maybe I just want to burn this bastard to death, but I'll let it RIP tonight and see how it's doing tomorrow. I have a nice wooden frame, 44" of mag strip and some copper wire invested in this bastard, so I won't let it die easily! lol - Frankenstein lives! Either that, or I will burn it to it's FINAL death with the blow torch... we'll see...

Quote from: tgraca on November 26, 2014, 05:33:20 PM
Currently reading 840 mV under load - up a little... I ordered 4 Hygrometers today to place in various testing lab areas in my home. These go down to 0% instead of 15%, which should help me determine if humidity is a factor in the open cells. All my current cells are sealed, so this won't be a factor with them. I'll check temperature too and maybe throw a couple in the fridge and freezer in the future to see how they are affected.

Currently reading 820 mV under load...

Quote from: tgraca on November 26, 2014, 04:56:18 PM
Did you fry your cell with a blow torch? I thought you would enjoy that! lol

kkkk, that was very funny indeed.  :P


Hey that's what science is all about, having fun.


There is this sound software from Spectrasonics where one of the sounds on the synth is of a "burning piano". Super cool sound. I use it on my music. They literally burned a piano while playing the keys and recorded the whole thing and made an instrument from it.


Fausto.

Quote from: tgraca on November 26, 2014, 07:21:50 PM
I feel like Frankenstein trying to resurrect this cell... It was just sitting here with the multimeter shorted on the uA readings for many hours and it was still hanging (on short) at around 120 uA, so I gave it a quick spray of water and it climbed up to about 1/2 mA, which is almost usable. Then I sprinkled about 5 pinches of alum on top and watched. It was over 2 mA for a while and after about 15 minutes is still over 1 mA. I am not sure why I think the blow torch would help... maybe I just want to burn this bastard to death, but I'll let it RIP tonight and see how it's doing tomorrow. I have a nice wooden frame, 44" of mag strip and some copper wire invested in this bastard, so I won't let it die easily! lol - Frankenstein lives! Either that, or I will burn it to it's FINAL death with the blow torch... we'll see...

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D  Kill the mod* fu$#($&#, kill it!!!


Die you bastard, burn in helllllll..  :P 


There is a video o mine that I say the same thing , that I made the cells to just kill them at all costs. Paradoxical.


Fausto.

Quote from: tgraca on November 26, 2014, 03:36:13 PM
New Build #354 Status

Built a JT like the others. On load, it's reading 1.21 volts. It's bright light like the last 2.

Similar to #354, but thinned out the electrolyte (it a liquid instead of a mush) and poured into cell with a little air pocket and sealed with caulk. Very weak to start. 940 mV under load.

Showing 547 mV on load... I'll put this one to rest...

Quote from: tgraca on November 26, 2014, 05:33:20 PM
Currently reading 840 mV under load - up a little...

It's up again this morning to 851 mV. My hygrometer is still showing LL - less than 15% humidity. The temp is about the same. This is a moody little cell.

Quote from: tgraca on November 26, 2014, 07:33:40 AM
Current mV reading under load - 738

Today's mV reading under load - 731

Quote from: tgraca on November 26, 2014, 07:36:13 AM
Current mV reading under load - 1081

Today's mV reading under load - 1074

Quote from: tgraca on November 26, 2014, 05:08:08 AM
1066 mV on load. 1788 mV with no load. Load is holding at 4.2 mA

Today - 1105 mV under load.

Quote from: tgraca on November 27, 2014, 03:39:48 AM
Built a JT like the others. On load, it's reading 1.21 volts. It's bright light like the last 2.

Today - 1101 mV under load.

Quote from: tgraca on November 27, 2014, 03:39:48 AM
Built a JT like the others. On load, it's reading 1.21 volts. It's bright light like the last 2.

I need to learn how to build those JT's like you do. I see that those cells are "current sources" not voltage sources. So putting them in series will not work after a certain level, BUT, connecting them in parallel works well IF the internal resistance of all are very proportional.


So I need desperately build JTs myself, but I don't know how.

Fausto.

Quote from: plengo on November 27, 2014, 01:53:29 PM
I need to learn how to build those JT's like you do. Fausto.

Do you have a soldering iron and some solder? You can get these and everything else you need on eBay for cheap. Get a resistor collection (500+<$5), some 100 uf electrolytic caps (100<$10), an assortment of inductors (100<$5), some transistors (2n2222's are about $2 per 100), and some bread boards (about $3 per 10, which you can cut into 4 - 1 will give you 4 of these JT's)... Let me know if you need any help. -teo

Quote from: tgraca on November 27, 2014, 05:34:31 AM
It's up again this morning to 851 mV.

830 mV this afternoon... under load...

Quote from: tgraca on November 27, 2014, 03:03:06 PM
Do you have a soldering iron and some solder? You can get these and everything else you need on eBay for cheap. Get a resistor collection (500+<$5), some 100 uf electrolytic caps (100<$10), an assortment of inductors (100<$5), some transistors (2n2222's are about $2 per 100), and some bread boards (about $3 per 10, which you can cut into 4 - 1 will give you 4 of these JT's)... Let me know if you need any help. -teo

I have all that, but when I want to create a JT for the cell I have no idea how to change the values. I can build one based on your design you posted but changing is the difficult thing.


Fausto.

Quote from: tgraca on November 27, 2014, 08:54:43 AM
Today - 1101 mV under load.

Did she go UP???  What is the current please? Cell 344?



Fausto.

Quote from: plengo on November 27, 2014, 03:06:48 PM
I have all that, but when I want to create a JT for the cell I have no idea how to change the values. I can build one based on your design you posted but changing is the difficult thing. Fausto.

Any values will work to some extent... for higher powered cells, use about a 10/1 for the inductors - base/collector - same basic design. For low powered cells, like 1/2 mA, use 2/1 or 1/1, but use higher inductance, like my 10 mH/10 mH config. I like the 100 uF caps for this because they work well with the blinker configurations I build (which requires another polarized cap across the inputs, like the one I sent you), but you can use smaller capacitance too, like 10 uF, 1 uF, 0.1 uF, etc., and they don't have to be polarized caps. Get a little breadboard and experiment with the values, then when you find something that works best, solder it together.

I am currently out of the inductors I was using for my regular configuration, so I will build them with different values - for a 2 mA - 4 mA draw, I like 4/1, so I may do something like 1 mH and 220 uH... I have a bunch of 100 mH's and 10 mH's too I might play with for the next batch. I have a crapload of hand wound bifilars I use for testing, but at this point, I am just plugging and playing with these little ones. There is a advantage to using bifilars or hand wound coils, but only for larger loads. It's too bad too... I have 3,000+ feet of 30 AWG wire sitting here along with a bunch of cores waiting for me to begin winding again! lol - I love winding my own coils!

Quote from: tgraca on November 27, 2014, 03:35:29 PM
Any values will work to some extent... Get a little breadboard and experiment with the values, then when you find something that works best, solder it together.

PS - you asked me why I would like a power supply that could increment in the uA range..  configuring these JT's to work better with low powered cells is why... I used to use that 10 mH/10 mH JT with 2 100 uF polarized caps and a 1k resistor and a very low powered red LED to blink some of my really early cells with power as low as 0.2 to 0.4 mV and only 1 uA.

Quote from: tgraca on November 27, 2014, 03:44:11 PM
PS - you asked me why I would like a power supply that could increment in the uA range..  configuring these JT's to work better with low powered cells is why... I used to use that 10 mH/10 mH JT with 2 100 uF polarized caps and a 1k resistor and a very low powered red LED to blink some of my really early cells with power as low as 0.2 to 0.4 mV and only 1 uA.

I found my old buck boost converter and used one of my 9.6 V lead alum batteries as a source. I had dug out most of the electrolyte from #345 this morning and replaced it with pure alum, but it didn't help. It was still at about 620 mV under load 12 hours later, and it's still wet... so I hooked up the boost converter, set it to 63 volts and it kicked a charge at 0.03 amps for about 30 seconds... the cells was showing 90 mA on short and is up to 1.7 volts. Under load, it is showing 1.431 volts... interesting...

We'll have to break out the calculation for joules (one watt of power for one second, or one "watt second" (W·s) ) to see if we are getting any extra back out of it... that's the problem with charging these cells. If you kick 60 volts at 1 amp for 60 seconds for example, you have put in 60 joules (60 WS) of power, so calculating how long the cells should run at variable power becomes an issue. For example... If the cell is using an average of 2 mA at an average of 1V, 60 joules would mean this cell has to run for 8.3 hours to get a COP of 1... please check my math... I see where you are coming from now with the charging... 63 volts at 0.03 amps is only 1.89 joules, so a 30 second charge = 56.7 joules, which means if this thing runs for over 9 hours, we will at least prove this is a viable idea...

I have never tried to charge a mag./copper/alum cell before, but there was some crystallization on the mag. from Fausto's electrolyte and some of the old electrolyte around the sides, so if it is charging the cell, that's one thing, but like Fausto said, maybe it is doing something else with this electrolyte, like forming the crystals in a very interesting way!!!

Well, at least it seems I have a workable power source now. If I can't get enough power out of my lead alum batteries, I'll hook it up to one of my RV batteries with a 10A diode (to protect the boost converter - it's rated at 10A max input) between the positive input and see if I can get more amps out of the boost converter. I'll have to check, but I think I had it set for 0.35 amps, but it was only pushing 0.03 amps... again... I'll check...

Quote from: tgraca on November 27, 2014, 04:37:01 PM
I found my old buck boost converter...

The alum battery is having trouble supplying this buck boost converter. I'll attach a diode next time and connect it to one of my RV batteries.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZQ6sZrJZhQ

Quote from: tgraca on November 28, 2014, 07:39:28 AM
The alum battery is having trouble supplying this buck boost converter. I'll attach a diode next time and connect it to one of my RV batteries.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZQ6sZrJZhQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZQ6sZrJZhQ)

LOVELY video, thank you. Rechargeable is indeed very interesting.  When I build this cell like in the video I shown at the next instant the cell has no power but with time the power goes up. I thought that was enough evidence to discard the super capacitor possibility. I still don't think this cell "stores" energy by that process you did.


I think something else is at play here.


I do have some experiments you could do since you are about to create more of those 344s. All using the FC62 (super cook with the large voltage - your battery system is very good, use it).


- one with towel paper wrapped around the Mg and allow a slice of the paper come out of the solid mix so that with time you can add Epson only solution to it without having to expose the insides to the air.

- one just like the first but 1/2 exposed to air so it makes even easier to add Epson only solution while also exposed to air which means higher evaporation.

- one identical to 344 (totally encased Mg cooked) but the load to be a SHORT (straight wire). Leave it for days and once in a while measure its current output with a meter. I notice those cells runs better with a lower impedance load than higher. They love to push hard.

- one much more liquid solution F134 in different degrees until almost watery. I am suspicious that there is a point of perfect performance which is not solid neither liquid.


If you could do some of those it would be wonderful because I have been doing the same also with Mg strips (like you) and I have noticed some very interesting properties.


I also dissected some and the Mg is intact, some parts even shinning BUT only when the Copper became red/black and Mg was covered with a black oxide.


Fausto.

Btw,


in my very successful cell that has been running super steady, when I made her I let her die by drying out completely. This allowed the crystals to grow to their maximum without being used up.


I reactivated them by adding a little bit of Epson solution and that's it, magic happens. No more water ever. Exposed to air and wrapped in tape to avoid dust or accidents with liquids.


Now, I am trying to replicate the same but without having to wait for months for the cell to dry up. I have tried oven, FC62 many times and so on. So far not much success, bummer. This is another reason I need more people testing to find out FASTER how to replicate 100% of the time this successful cell. She is giving a flat 2.588 volts over a 10 mm green LED for days and days and days and days.....and......


I would love to replicate it using the Mg strips because they are cheap, readily available and super light and small.


I know that to replicate a few things must happen. One is the red/black oxide over the Copper. Another is the black oxide over the Mg and it must solidify, both. Then the Epson solution will re-activate and make the magic. The FC62 is MY WAY of accomplishing that instead of months for that layer to grow. Success in this process so far.


Mg will not corrode when properly done this steps and the cell is properly shielded from external water.


Now my crazy theory: THose are not fuel cells, they are Hydro-cells. They use Hydrogen from the air to run. Yes, Hydrogen, the by product is O2 (oxigen). My intution.


Fausto.

Quote from: tgraca on November 27, 2014, 08:52:00 AM
Today - 1105 mV under load.

Today - 1054 mV under load.

Quote from: tgraca on November 27, 2014, 08:54:43 AM
Today - 1101 mV under load.

Today - 1080 mV under load.

Quote from: tgraca on November 27, 2014, 08:47:11 AM
Today's mV reading under load - 731

Today's mV reading under load - still 731

Quote from: tgraca on November 27, 2014, 08:48:14 AM
Today's mV reading under load - 1074

Today's mV reading under load - 1057

Quote from: tgraca on November 27, 2014, 05:20:13 AM
Similar to #354, but thinned out the electrolyte (it a liquid instead of a mush) and poured into cell with a little air pocket and sealed with caulk. Very weak to start. 940 mV under load.

970 mV under load today. I may have not let it recover after the short mA test....

It looks like the best performing cell I have so far is #354 - the heavy mush mix...

12 parts activated carbon
6 parts Epsom salt
2 parts hydrate #5
2 parts MnO2
1 parts borax

I will charge it this time prior to sealing it. I am working on a way to charge 4 consistently with voltage and amperage with various lengths of time to test HOW the charging affects the longevity of the cells. In the mean time, I am working on a JT for some new LED's, which vary in color and mA draw per color. I spent some time today on this JT circuit, but had only a little success. It may take some time, but I like these RGB slow changing LED's and want  them to run on these crystal batteries!

Quote from: plengo on November 28, 2014, 12:45:10 PM
I know that to replicate a few things must happen. One is the red/black oxide over the Copper. Another is the black oxide over the Mg and it must solidify.

I would like to determine what the black formation over the mag strip is in my corrosion experiment with borax. Do you think that is black oxide? It turns gray when dried and shows ZERO connectivity when testing with a 1K ohm tester. It took less than a day to form on the mag strip. I wonder if a quick wash with a borax/water solution on the copper and mag strips would accomplish the same thing... I don't want to expend too much energy on a small cell, which would make these cells nonviable.

A little charging at low amperage to form the crystals makes sense, but the amount of energy necessary to form that black oxide layer on the copper makes it nonviable in my opinion. Also, that process results in a variable outcome and could only be replicated consistently and efficiently in a lab with 10's of thousands of dollars worth of equipment... or much more...

I have checked into the cost of owning and operating machines to make transistors and capacitors... it would cost close to a million dollars to buy and house either (not both), plus there would be costs associated with materials and labor... this is not for me... it's not good to create a process that is not easily replicatable, even at the cost of output. If someone can create a battery and circuit for a nightlight that runs for a month or more (for instance) for less than $1 and rebuild the battery for a few cents, or water just the battery, then that would be, in my opinion, a viable nightlight project for people (like me) that like to make their own toys! lol

So, I will push toward this goal. I don't mind passing a little voltage through the battery, but you saw the 47 minute mess I made with the soup mix (#344)... that's not going to work for me... maybe a short charge or a simple coating of chemicals to get the same effect.

NOTE: you can buy black oxide online and maybe just mixing it with some borax and a quick rinse on the copper would accomplish the same thing. If this works, we have no use of energy to get the same effect. Have you tried this? I would rather limit my viability calculations to just cost of materials instead of adding energy usage and joule math into the calculations... if possible.

Quote from: tgraca on November 29, 2014, 09:13:03 AM
I would like to determine what the black formation over the mag strip is in my corrosion experiment with borax. Do you think that is black oxide?

From wikipedia: Black oxide for copper, sometimes known by the trade name Ebonol C, converts the copper surface to cupric oxide. For the process to work the surface has to have at least 65% copper; for copper surfaces that have less than 90% copper it must first be pretreated with an activating treatment. The finished coating is chemically stable and very adherent.

So, here is a non-electric and non-heating process to accomplish the same thing with just a chemical coating...

I found another company makes something like ebonol C. Durablack Liquid and Durablack Pre-Dip
see: http://heatbath.com/metal-finishing-products/black-oxide-finishing/black-oxide-for-non-ferrous-metals/
Heatbath Corporation (*USA) T (413) 452-2000

Anyone can also buy cupric oxide powder for about $10/lb. on ebay.

Quote from: tgraca on November 29, 2014, 09:42:05 AM
Alternative to Ebonol C and Durablack Liquid

Oxidizing (blackening, coloring) of a copper workpiece is commonly carried out by immersion of the part into a heated alkaline solution containing an oxidizing compound (e.g. sodium chlorite). ref. http://www.substech.com/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=black_copper_oxide_coating

NOTE: borax (boron) "In its most familiar compounds, boron has the formal oxidation state III. These include oxides, sulfides, nitrides, and halides." - ref. wikipedia... also, it says it is "mildly acidic"

Quote from: tgraca on November 29, 2014, 11:06:06 AM
Oxidizing (blackening, coloring) of a copper workpiece is commonly carried out by immersion of the part into a heated alkaline solution containing an oxidizing compound (e.g. sodium chlorite). ref. http://www.substech.com/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=black_copper_oxide_coating

NOTE: borax (boron) "In its most familiar compounds, boron has the formal oxidation state III. These include oxides, sulfides, nitrides, and halides." - ref. wikipedia... also, it says it is "mildly acidic"

Here's a quick way to create heat inside a copper pipe and possibly form some copper oxide inside the tube. lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_X1CqK59ls

Quote from: tgraca on November 29, 2014, 09:13:03 AM
I would like to determine what the black formation over the mag strip is in my corrosion experiment with borax. Do you think that is black oxide? It turns gray when dried and shows ZERO connectivity when testing with a 1K ohm tester. It took less than a day to form on the mag strip. I wonder if a quick wash with a borax/water solution on the copper and mag strips would accomplish the same thing... I don't want to expend too much energy on a small cell, which would make these cells nonviable.

A little charging at low amperage to form the crystals makes sense, but the amount of energy necessary to form that black oxide layer on the copper makes it nonviable in my opinion. Also, that process results in a variable outcome and could only be replicated consistently and efficiently in a lab with 10's of thousands of dollars worth of equipment... or much more...

I have checked into the cost of owning and operating machines to make transistors and capacitors... it would cost close to a million dollars to buy and house either (not both), plus there would be costs associated with materials and labor... this is not for me... it's not good to create a process that is not easily replicatable, even at the cost of output. If someone can create a battery and circuit for a nightlight that runs for a month or more (for instance) for less than $1 and rebuild the battery for a few cents, or water just the battery, then that would be, in my opinion, a viable nightlight project for people (like me) that like to make their own toys! lol

So, I will push toward this goal. I don't mind passing a little voltage through the battery, but you saw the 47 minute mess I made with the soup mix (#344)... that's not going to work for me... maybe a short charge or a simple coating of chemicals to get the same effect.

NOTE: you can buy black oxide online and maybe just mixing it with some borax and a quick rinse on the copper would accomplish the same thing. If this works, we have no use of energy to get the same effect. Have you tried this? I would rather limit my viability calculations to just cost of materials instead of adding energy usage and joule math into the calculations... if possible.

great info Teo that you are providing.


I agree with you on the cost of THIS cell so far which is not profitable. That's why this is still in early infancy of research. I only envision this process now as a learning process so LATER we will make easier and cheaper. Just like the first hard-drive when it was invented, the size of a brick wall.


I don't use that much of energy like you did in your 344 cell. You used TOO MUCH material for it. In my case it only takes about 1 minute or less using the Mg strips. Really quick and the total of the chemicals is only 6 tsp of Epson (for example) to form about 50 cells. That IS CHEAP.


That mush cell is not what I want, too much material, too long and no space for the crystal to grow let alone to breath. That's why I am asking to create another one with the towel paper around the Mg and one continuous peace coming out of the mix so that you can "activate" the cell later, after it totally dried, with Epson solution from outside and slowly the solution will penetrate the cell which is inside the solid mix.


I am in total sync with the idea of using "already formed" chemicals for the cell and that's what I meant by "nano scale", directly to the formed chemical which can be deposed over the metals at a much faster and cheaper process without needing any complicated and expensive machines. Small labs would easily do it.


My FC62 process was an experiment in forming those oxide layer at a very simple process and replicable by anyone. Bedini for example uses the torch to form the Cu oxide (cupric), I don't like that process much, besides that only forms ONE oxide, mine forms 2. Two rabbits for one swing.


Please, really try the geometry I am proposing. The cells you are creating with solid mixes (just like IBpointless) is cool for testing a few things but FAR from what the crystal cell is really about. It is about the CRYSTAL growing not chemical reactions. Those big mesh of solid mix will not work at all.


BTW, on the video of MnO2 with H2O2 you see the by product of O2, now imagine if this is the OUTPUT or by product of this cell!!! Makes you think a little bit.


Fausto.

Quote from: plengo on November 29, 2014, 12:06:05 PMThat mush cell is not what I want, too much material, and no space for the crystal to grow let alone to breath.

Today: 985 mV under load... if you remember, this is the one I created 6 days ago with a lot of air left inside. It seems to be doing well.

Quote from: tgraca on November 28, 2014, 02:31:52 PM
970 mV under load today. I may have not let it recover after the short mA test....

This one was showing 887 mV, but when I moved it, it lost the cathode connection - the copper wrapped around the mag strips... so I opened up the end and tied it up better. It's showing 1088 mV now... I turned it upside down to see if any of the liquid electrolyte dripped out, and there was none. I am guessing it's dries up and crystallized now. I'll leave the end open to the air and see what happens.

Quote from: plengo on November 29, 2014, 12:06:05 PM
BTW, on the video of MnO2 with H2O2 you see the by product of O2, now imagine if this is the OUTPUT or by product of this cell!!! Makes you think a little bit.

I just tried some easy-to-get 3% H2O2, so copper wire, then added about 1/4 tsp of MnO2... there were some bubbles and just a little bit of warmth. The result is that the copper looks really shiny now, so I am guessing it just cleaned it. I threw some activated carbon in... nothing... added some Epsom salt, a small piece of mag strip and more MnO2... more bubbles...  after 10 minutes, no real changes to the mag strip or copper.

Quote from: tgraca on November 29, 2014, 12:53:46 PM
I just tried some easy-to-get 3% H2O2, so copper wire, then added about 1/4 tsp of MnO2... there were some bubbles and just a little bit of warmth. The result is that the copper looks really shiny now, so I am guessing it just cleaned it. I threw some activated carbon in... nothing... added some Epsom salt, a small piece of mag strip and more MnO2... more bubbles...  after 10 minutes, no real changes to the mag strip or copper.

I did the same and same results. FC62 really creates something unique that just the chemical reactions did not. Figures.


Fausto.

Quote from: tgraca on November 28, 2014, 01:47:33 PM
Today - 1080 mV under load.

Today - 1083 mV under load. - having connection issues with the cathode - copper taped onto mag strips.... may have to remove copper and solder alligator clip to JT to attach to mag. from now on.

Quote from: tgraca on November 28, 2014, 01:56:18 PM
Today's mV reading under load - still 731

Today's mV reading under load - 715

Quote from: tgraca on November 28, 2014, 01:43:49 PM
Today - 1054 mV under load.

Today - 1084 mV under load. I think yesterday's reading is an ongoing issue with my technique of taping the cathode connection - copper taped onto the mag strip.

#344 was holding 632 mV under load and barely lighting the LED with the JT circuit. I checked the amp draw, which was 215 uA. I disconnected the JT and recharged it directly from the alum battery, which was at 9.36 volts and probably pushing lots of power... about 20 seconds. When I checked it again, it was showing 430 mV under load and no light. I checked the amp draw on the circuit and it was bouncing around from 36 uA to 280 uA... something very wrong now with this cell... I watered it and repeated the test... I got a little more power, but it quickly died again and was showing about the same results... it won't take a charge like this... The 345 alum rebuild seems to be working fine, so I may do that to this cell...

showing 724 mV under load. Draw was 0.84 mA for the JT circuit. Disconnected JT and and got 1.67 V... shorted it and got over 6 mV initially then it did a slow drop starting around 5.56 mA... It's still a little wet from watering yesterday, but mostly dry... waited a couple minutes and reconnected the JT circuit with similar readings... 725 mV under load w/draw of 0.85 mA... wet the cell and after a couple minutes, it was pushing 935 mV with a draw of over 3 mA.... but dropping quickly... after 16 minutes, it seems to be holding around 1.15 mA and 754 mV

Quote from: tgraca on November 29, 2014, 03:30:04 PM
showing 724 mV under load. Draw was 0.84 mA for the JT circuit. Disconnected JT and and got 1.67 V... shorted it and got over 6 mV initially then it did a slow drop starting around 5.56 mA... It's still a little wet from watering yesterday, but mostly dry... waited a couple minutes and reconnected the JT circuit with similar readings... 725 mV under load w/draw of 0.85 mA... wet the cell and after a couple minutes, it was pushing 935 mV with a draw of over 3 mA.... but dropping quickly... after 16 minutes, it seems to be holding around 1.15 mA and 754 mV

I shorted it again, and it was up over 20 mV... I am ready to trash a bunch of my glue cells, which were powering 2 blinker circuits... they needed to be watered more than once per day.... this one and #344, when I convert it to alum, will be able to power them hopefully for over a day without watering. I may clean out my old wood-box cells from April and rebuild them like this too for a couple more blinker circuits. They were cooked Rochelle and Epsom salt (bedini idea) and the coiled mag. strips are broken in many places and hard to grab with an alligator clip, but they will run for 3 days per watering... hmmm... I have 4 boxes.... hate to waste them, so I won't...

Quote from: tgraca on November 29, 2014, 06:15:10 PMhis one and #344, when I convert it to alum[/size]

What do you mean by "convert it"?


Btw, it is just like that with the 344, it will eventually not take a charge neither run anymore with more water or Epson solution. That IS GREAT. She is getting to the point where I call it "dormant".


This is what happened to my current super running cell around april 2013. It became dormant and I thought she was dead and I sent to her cemetery. Three weeks ago I added a little bit of Epson solution and she became SUPER ALIVE. So don't throw away that 344, save her.


Were you able to create a 344 with paper around and leaving a strip of the paper out so later can add Epson solution?

Fausto.

Quote from: plengo on November 30, 2014, 01:15:21 PM
What do you mean by "convert it"?
Were you able to create a 344 with paper around and leaving a strip of the paper out so later can add Epson solution?

re: 344 - convert it = I am planning to bore out most of the electrolyte and convert it to an alum water-as-fuel cell.
re: create a 344 with paper around = check out the builds for 351-355 - they are similar, but no charge added...

I am currently working on building a small lab for testing various JT configurations quickly for a new type of LED I acquired. See my notes on a previous post here. Math only works to a point for me... small variations affect performance greatly....

I hooked this resurrected #345 up to the JT circuit design I sent Fausto with the 3F cap across the input. Once the cap was charged, which took several hours, it was only drawing about 0.5 mA from the cell and has been maintaining 750-790 mV under load. It is currently at 782 mV. It's a blinker circuit and I think the slow bright pulses help recharge this battery. I have been using this circuit with other very weak ibpointless2 cells for months successfully. See http://offthegridsolar.net/Solar/REC_images/JT2c.png

if you could build a 344 with the paper I mention but FC62 (the charge), would be wonderful. I want to see if your process build will be similar to the results I have with my (let's call it) "super 149".


I know about the 351-355[/size]  [/size]But they are missing the FC62.[/size]

[/size]
Fausto.[/size]

Quote from: plengo on November 30, 2014, 01:43:47 PM
if you could build a 344 with the paper I mention but FC62 (the charge), would be wonderful. I want to see if your process build will be similar to the results

I posted my next build plans earlier. There are differences including use of a borax/water rinse on the mag strips and coffee filter cover. I will build 2 at the same time - one with a charge of about 30 seconds - one with a charge of about a 1 second - just a tap. I am working on some wooden shelves for single cells and circuits at the moment. I built 2 shelves this morning, but if they work out, I will build several more shelves and just hang them around the house as I build these things. I like these as little nightlights! I don't have to turn the main room lights on when I wander around in the middle of the night!! Ill post a video these stands and builds when I am done.

In the meantime, have you made any progress on your formula? I think the one I used for 344-345 is over a year old. When I get the shelf thing down, I am probably going to build 8-10 of these all at once just to see how long it takes.

Quote from: tgraca on November 30, 2014, 01:59:55 PM
I posted my next build plans earlier. There are differences including use of a borax/water rinse on the mag strips and coffee filter cover. I will build 2 at the same time - one with a charge of about 30 seconds - one with a charge of about a 1 second - just a tap. I am working on some wooden shelves for single cells and circuits at the moment. I built 2 shelves this morning, but if they work out, I will build several more shelves and just hang them around the house as I build these things. I like these as little nightlights! I don't have to turn the main room lights on when I wander around in the middle of the night!! Ill post a video these stands and builds when I am done.

In the meantime, have you made any progress on your formula? I think the one I used for 344-345 is over a year old. When I get the shelf thing down, I am probably going to build 8-10 of these all at once just to see how long it takes.

Great man, great work.


This formula IS old but it is very important and it is working very well. Don't worry about more of my formulas since this one is ONE i think can be used and replicated by others easily.


I have been testing extensively with the Mg strips again more in line with what you've done so that I also have a baseline based on your tests.


I am also replicating extensively the "super 149" so that ANYONE can replicate and have a very lasting cell. How long it will last??? I have no idea, but it will for a very long time. Specially if adding a drop of water every month. I am NOT ADDING water but I can see if she dies water will also work in very small quantities.


Fausto.

I have a very important question that an engineer could answer please:


- Can we have a circuit with very high resistance and very high conductivity?


- Can we have a circuit with very low resistance and low conductivity?


I know that V = I x R and if resistance goes higher so it will voltage BUT if conductivity is high, which is current very high, than voltage should be even higher. Now, if Resistance is very high and voltage is very high also, current tend to be small.


I also know that one variable changing will by consequence change the other variables. So it would not be possible to have high resistance and high current, they are reciprocals of each other, right?


Increasing Voltage increases current. Increasing Resistance decreases current. Increasing current decreases voltage.


So there is the paradox for my 2 questions above.


Fausto.

I have had 345 hooked up to my 3F JT circuit all day and the extra 3F cap seems to bounce the charge around... It was showing 765 mV under load. I just disconnected it and checked the mA reading and it showed 73+ mA and it held there... the voltage climbed very slowly to 1454 after about 7 minutes. It's basically an alum cell now, but it has some interesting properties like taking a charge. We'll see how long it works without watering.

Here are 3 cells using f133(not 134 on pic).
2 strips of magnesium per cell
The paper towel separater has the formula pasted on and allowed to dry then wrapped around the magnesium.
i usually only have 1 to 2 layers, but watching one of Fausto vids said something about more hotdog like ;)
these are wrapped 5 around.
2 cell read 300 ish millivolts /.2 micro amps
the other reads
40 milli volts/.2 micro amps, then when i switch over to volts it reads over 100 millivolts and starts dropping....strange..
These have been resting about 5 days since the "Fausto Sizzle",but i can only so 30 Volts DC...
I will be making more but I have Questions at this point....
1 Is the "Fausto Sizzle" at 30volts DC Work? what water to Epsom mix for this part?
2 Wraps of paper towel/with mix  around magnesium recommendation
3 recommendation to activate.. once again Epsom to water ratio.
Thanks..


[pics reduced by admin]

Yikes sorry about the huge pics they where so small when editing...
I now have Super Fausto 134 on sheets drying..
When giving f133 the f30v treatment a almost olive green came oozing out by the Magnesium, the pic doesnt show this :(
Anyone else see this?

These are holding up...
#354 is at 1065 mV under load
#355 is at 782 mV under load. This one was unsealed, so it is drying out.
- Opened it up and watered it, then resealed it. It's at 982 mV under load.

Quote from: tgraca on November 30, 2014, 01:22:45 PM
converted to an alum water-as-fuel cell.

BackRoom Labs on YouTube had me check the alum I was using in the corrosion test. It turns out I accidentally bought the wrong type of alum.
I used the ammonium type. They were out of McCormick on the spice shelf and I bought Sauter's brand instead, which is clearly marked
ammonium alum... oops! lol - I bet the 4 feet of mag strips in cell #345 will be liquid by the end of the week! lol

I plan to build more cells and give them a ZAP today. I'll post something when that is done.

#352 is 1014 mV under load. Built Nov. 23, 2014
#353 is at 1050 mV under load. Built Nov. 25, 2014

Quote
40 milli volts/.2 micro amps, then when i switch over to volts it reads over 100 millivolts and starts dropping....strange..These have been resting about 5 days since the "Fausto Sizzle",but i can only so 30 Volts DC...I will be making more but I have Questions at this point....1 Is the "Fausto Sizzle" at 30volts DC Work? what water to Epsom mix for this part?2 Wraps of paper towel/with mix  around magnesium recommendation3 recommendation to activate.. once again Epsom to water ratio.Thanks...

The reason for the change in voltage when you change the volt meter is that different scales has different impedance mode and therefore the cell adjust itself to that load. Those are CURRENT SOURCE cells not voltage source. They are VERY sensitive to the load and tend to minimize the output power given for that particular load up to a level where it finds the "middle point".


answers:


1 - 30 Volts will be OK
2 - You said about 5. By the picture I would triple it.
3 - All Epson solutions are 3 1/8 tsp for 50 ml distilled water.

Concerning the "super fausto", oh my goodness ( ;D   ) change it to "looser fausto".


Btw, welcome.

Fausto.

@ Teo,


I have an inconvenient request , if possible. Could you list in one post each cell that you created from 350 and up what is the cell made and the zapping or not? I am updating the spread sheet with those info and going through all the post is becoming confusing.


Fausto.


ps: I changed a few posts ago and removed one for clarity only. (Mostly because of my mistakes).

I forgot to mention this before. Those cells when super dry (F149 = Formula 149) will present a very small micro current BUT when open they will still present a voltage of +/- 1 volt.


The reason the current is so small even with a substantial voltage is because the INTERNAL RESISTANCE of the cell is huge. I think this is one of the reasons Bedini kept saying to "lock the water in" using a hydrate of sorts.


I am in a kind of agreement with him.


Here is my theory to may be, may be, help others in my monkey science. The electrodes will naturally create the potential difference. On a liquid that creates the "ions" (electrolyte) they will move and therefore causes the current and also the transportation of the ions from one plate to the other and cause the REDOX/OXYGENATION/CORROSION.


The oxide layers formed by my "zaping" (i name it FC62 for short) will avoid the "ions" to move to the point of "penetrating" the metals and "corroding" them. This is also Bedinis theory so far (if I am not wrong). Bedini uses a torch to form the "cupric" over the Copper only and he call it a "diode layer".


Now, too much water will cause the "diode layer" (the oxide layers) to deteriorate and allow the metals to decay with time. Too little water resistance is too high. There is a medium where it is just perfect. Some of the components in my formula are designed (by pure monkey excessive testing) to reduce that internal resistance by sheer ability of conducting electrons but not ions, such as the Carbon. Unfortunately Carbon with Magnesium will chew it up like candy on kids mouth. So another element to be balanced.


The hydrates are lacking in this formula but not on my most recent formulas. But for now lets keep simple and use this very successful formula F149.


This cell structure I proposed (see the video) does not have the hydrates so I have to find a different mechanism to hold the water in the right quantity (still working on that substantially - another reason I need more people working on this with tests). In this cell the medium is the PAPER. It will become a very strong and hard crystal structure which is the reason why "paper kitchen towel", it is porous and water absorbent. 


So, I cut the paper to the size of the Magnesium rod's length, apply the formula to the closest of the surface of the Magnesium and roll the paper. When applying FC62 (zapping) I kept adding Epson solution so that the outside perimeter of the paper which is the one closer to the copper will be MORE SATURATED of CRYSTALS than the inner perimeter where the Magnesium is present and more saturated of MnO2.


I know this is all rough tentative to accomplish something accordingly with my theory, but it is all I got with my ultra limited resources and no lab.


The sizzling being fast will dry up the cell as quick as I can to allow faster crystallization, evaporation of water and still maintain the majority of the "designed geometric distribution of chemicals" in place and form the "diode layers". Unfortunately that decreases the repeatability of the experiments. Hey, this is research  ;) .




F149 formula is:

- 6 parts Epson volume
- 3 parts Carbon Activated volume
- 3 parts MnO2 volume.


All volume not grams.


Fausto.

Quote from: plengo on December 01, 2014, 12:19:28 PM
@ Teo, I have an inconvenient request , if possible. Could you list in one post each cell that you created from 350 and up what is the cell made and the zapping or not? I am updating the spread sheet with those info and going through all the post is becoming confusing. Fausto.
ps: I changed a few posts ago and removed one for clarity only. (Mostly because of my mistakes).

No zapping for any of these:
Crystal Battery #351 - Nov. 22, 2014 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UChgvI68y5M
Crystal Battery #352 - Nov. 23, 2014 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MubBsGGtxk
Crystal Battery #353 - Nov. 25, 2014 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPi8fkn1qFA
Crystal Battery #354 - Nov. 26, 2014* - thick peanut butter consistency - spooned in
Crystal Battery #355 - Nov. 27, 2014* - watery - poured in

*New Formula and proportions:
12 parts activated carbon
6 parts Epsom salt
2 parts hydrate #5
2 parts MnO2
1 parts borax

Things I learned from these cells and other experiments in the last week:
1. learned from cell 251 - PVC pipe build - all types of plastic are porous, which is why I think this cell is drying up.
    Also, copper pipe has more copper, so that seems to work better and it doesn't breath.
2. I can't tape copper onto the mag strips. It leaves a bad connection and is harder to seal the top of the cell.
    I will solder an alligator clip onto negative end of the JT circuit and just clip it on. This also allows me to easily
    intercept the current flow for a mA draw test.
3. Caulk is much easier to work with than epoxy or fiberglass when it comes to sealing up these cells. It is also easier
    to take apart later in case I want to inspect or rebuild these cells.
4. I am not sure if 352 (powder mix) or 354 (peanut butter consistency mix) is better. I am leaning toward the later.
5. Soaking in Borax (boron) will leave a black/gray oxide layer on the magnesium strip, which may be a good thing
    to do prior to building the cell.
6. It doesn't take much Epsom salt to activate these cells, so the proportions can be relatively small.
7. It's easy to get the types of alum mixed up (corrosion test was with the wrong type of alum and gobbled up my
    magnesium in less than 2 days! lol)
8. It takes me about: 10 minutes to build a cell; 20 minutes to build a JT circuit; 5 minutes to assemble a little
    combo shelf out of wood for the JT and cell, and 1 minute to hang it on the wall.... I need build quicker!

Teo

status of 149. So far total running time is 1200 thousand seconds. From November 16 to December 1, 2014 (born in March 10 2013 - died in June 2013, reactivated in November 2014).


Temperature of lab has changed dramatically between 25 to 18 Celsius.

Quote from: plengo on December 01, 2014, 01:44:43 PM
status of 149.

That looks like 2 cells in series.
Is that under load?
- If so, what is the mA reading (power draw) under load? (This translates to the load)
Also, what is the mA reading shorted?
Thanks! -t
Note that these are basic questions nobody building these things really addresses, except me... not sure why...

Quote from: tgraca on December 01, 2014, 01:47:58 PM
That looks like 2 cells in series.
Is that under load?
- If so, what is the mA reading (power draw) under load? (This translates to the load)
Also, what is the mA reading shorted?
Thanks! -t
Note that these are basic questions nobody building these things really addresses, except me... not sure why...

This is 3 units cell. Green 10 mm LED. I don't know the mA but I would guess it is around 1mA. The meter is cross the LED leads. I really don't want to short this baby now  :'( .


Fausto.

Quote from: plengo on December 01, 2014, 02:21:57 PMThis is 3 units cell. Green 10 mm LED.
I don't know the mA but I would guess it is around 1mA. The meter is cross the LED leads.
I really don't want to short this baby now  :'( . Fausto.

Alright... no shorts... But at least solder an aligator clip on one end of the LED so you can get a real load reading...
Even monkeys don't guess! lol
PS - In this way, everyone can get a real feel for how the 3 cells are really performing...
better yet, add a JT circuit to each cell so you can get a feel for how each one is performing separately. Use this one, which will
work  for 1/2 mA draw (load):
http://offthegridsolar.net/Solar/REC_images/JT_Test_Circuit2.png

PS - I am chatting with BackRoom Labs on YouTube. He has some really great stuff! I invited him over here, so hopefully he will join us! ;)

Still not electrified... I'll burn at least 1 one or more tomorrow. New shelves for nightlights covered...

http://youtu.be/Rz3t92tABF4

Current electrolyte formula:
12 parts activated carbon
6 parts Epsom salt
2 parts hydrate #5
2 parts MnO2
1 parts borax
filtered water blended to a thick paste

Build for both:
bottom of copper pipe caulked and dried for a couple days - hardened
3" of 1/2" copper pipe, 34" of mag. strip folded into 3.25" - taped
coffee filter soaked in borax solution and wrapped around mag. strips, then
placed in pipe, electrolyte spooned in and tapped in place
top sealed with caulk - approx 1/2" of mag. strips hanging out.

NOTE: soldered alligator clip to the neg. end of the JT to connect to cathode. This allows easy access for mA draw tests.
Soldered pos. end - JT to battery - permanent connection... used a tac to hold the circuit on the shelf. The shelf is 2.5" wide by 4" tall
with 2 pieces of wood simply glued together. There is a 5/8" hold drilled into the base to hold the 1/2" copper pipe in place. Screwed to
wall. I wonder how many of these I will have by Christmas! lol

Research Experiment:
http://youtu.be/YxKlcLCvgP8

Research Experiment:
http://youtu.be/CNDoz_0ST-I

@ tgracia is that a polarity cap?and the resister across it?
    also I have some 10 uh inductors, the ones that look little green resisters, think they will work?
    If you coil your own, please tut, I have plenty of number 31wire and 26 for that matter, much thanks!
@ Fausto theres a new dance out called the Fausto Sizzle, lol ..
    F149 is the same as F134 so I'm good for my next build, the triple roll ;)
I've got lots of white LEDs from a CHRISTmas light special, family thinks I'm nuts, well until we had a power outage, girls are all asking "dad were are your experiments " they used them all night and next day because not a single flash light could be found...
mine are only a one wrap around 2 mag strips,made a few months ago still going , but they only last a few hours, but hey they work.
you inspired me to pick this crystal battery thing up again and get involved, had to put the 3d printer project aside for a bit lol.
You can tell in some of your vids a genuine excitement in your voice when you nailed it.
Awsome work my friend and thanks for sharing!!

Quote from: Heavens Pavement on December 01, 2014, 11:47:56 PM
@ tgracia is that a polarity cap?and the resister across it?
    also I have some 10 uh inductors, the ones that look little green resisters, think they will work?
    If you coil your own, please tut, I have plenty of number 31wire and 26 for that matter, much thanks!
@ Fausto theres a new dance out called the Fausto Sizzle, lol ..
    F149 is the same as F134 so I'm good for my next build, the triple roll ;)
I've got lots of white LEDs from a CHRISTmas light special, family thinks I'm nuts, well until we had a power outage, girls are all asking "dad were are your experiments " they used them all night and next day because not a single flash light could be found...
mine are only a one wrap around 2 mag strips,made a few months ago still going , but they only last a few hours, but hey they work.
you inspired me to pick this crystal battery thing up again and get involved, had to put the 3d printer project aside for a bit lol.
You can tell in some of your vids a genuine excitement in your voice when you nailed it.
Awsome work my friend and thanks for sharing!!

F149 is an improvement over F134. We are working on F149 (well at least me). Teo is working in many variations as he can, which is awesome.
My Kids love those lights too, my wife does not because I put them besides my bed and they make a bright light when your eyes get used to the dark.


Well, I hope I give some "inspiration" for others to continue this research. I "did not get it" yet. I do have some awesome cells running beyond my understanding and belief. They will die, may be, but so far it is running very strongly. I also noticed that temperature makes a huge difference in 100th of a volt of the output power.


One thing is for sure, if this cell dies, I will be disappointed AGAIN BUT I will learn from it a lot. This one is the WINNER hands down in performance, durability, stability, size and cost. The only problem so far is to replicate it without having to wait 12 months of "dormancy".


There are too many variables right now flying on this setup. The formula is solid and replicatable but the build process is tricky. I have not seen anyone build JUST LIKE I DID to the DOT, so it is difficult to believe someone will replicate this cell of mine so far. Let's see.


Geometry IS EVERYTHING in this cell, really is. It took me a long time to figure out the geometry with the kitchen paper towel to get the crystal separated from the rest of the chemicals.


Sometimes one must think like a monkey. The monkey sees the banana and goes like: hmmm, she is so bright and appealing. So he peels her off very slowlyyyyyyyy. Almost like humans. Get it?


Fausto.

Quote from: Heavens Pavement on December 01, 2014, 11:47:56 PM
@ tgracia is that a polarity cap?and the resister across it?
    also I have some 10 uh inductors, the ones that look little green resisters, think they will work?
    If you coil your own, please tut, I have plenty of number 31wire and 26 for that matter, much thanks!

Fausto doesn't like to spoon feed us, but I need the spoons, so here's one for you... lol

10 uH doesn't offer much inductance and I haven't had much luck with that level in JT circuits for these crystal cells, although it
can be done. If you can invest $4.79 and have a few weeks, this is a great deal on 200 inductors with 20 values up to 4.7 mH.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271313527679?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
You can find 100 of those 10 mH inductors for about $10 delivered too on eBay.

I like the polarized caps in the JT circuit better for crystal batteries because it pulses the power back to the positive on the crystal batteries.
I think this helps keep them alive longer, but I could be wrong... it's just the way I have always done it, and from day 1 my cells
have always lasted a long time. I like 100 uF because it creates slower pulses, but any value would work. When you start experimenting
with the various values of components in a JT circuit, it's really slims up the possibilities to fix at least one.* I got a deal on 100 uF caps
last year and just ordered some smaller ones to make my JTC's a little smaller. Here's a great deal - 100 for $1.82....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221568727154?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Be careful... this is getting to be big money now!!! lol

I use a variable resistor as the main variable in the circuit and then fix the value and use a small 1/4 watt resistor of that value. With this
technique, you will need a breadboard and an LC meter to determine what value the variable resistor is set at. With LC meters, the cheaper
ones are better. I have wasted money on the more expensive ones. There is a little blue one available for about $20 shipped, which I have
found to be accurate enough for my work (play).

When winding coils, remember that the gauge of the wire does not affect the inductance. It does affect the resistance of the coil inductors.
These 2 values per coil is a major factor in the reactance of your system. For these little inductors, they don't have much resistance until
you get past 1 mH. For hand wound coils, I usually wind bifilar style, which works great for JT circuits, but it takes a lot of winds to get
inductance. I use bolts/washers/nuts as cores** and 350 winds gives about 6 mH, so it is a lot of winding and counting. Some people get
these circuits working really well with 20 winds, but I have always needed at least 50. I am usually disappointed when I see someone get
something working and although I appreciate that they share it, I always wish they would "spoon feed" us a little more and talk about
their failures and how they got it working. Simple things like LC meter readings on the inductance of their coils and the number of winds,
etc. really help.

*If you take that JT circuit and view it as 4 variable valued components (2 inductors, 1 cap, and 1 resistor) and figure 20 possible values
(as a premise), you have 4 to the 20th power of possible combinations, which is 1,099,511,627,776 (over a trillion). Fixing one value,
like the cap, gives you 3 to the 20th power of possible combinations, which is 3,486,784,401 (3.5 billion) - that's a lot less! lol
The variable resistor helps in that you can adjust it to find the resistance you need, which brings us down to 2 to the 20th power
(1,048,576 - just over a million), and so these are just the inductors. Fix one of those, like 10 mH or 1 mH on the base of the transistor,
and you bring the possibilities down to the second inductor on the collector (20) and the variable resistor. Have fun! lol

**I get bolts/washers/nuts for $2 per pound locally, so I have a large collection of these and actually used them and some wood to make
a coil winder... that might make a good video, eh!

PS - JT's are not the only circuits. Bedini uses something else, and running the LED off the emitter instead of off the collector works well
too. Note that I have been using the 3904 NPN transistors for these forever, but just ordered some 2N2222's, which for some reason
have suddenly become readily available and really cheap, so I'll have a chance to play with those soon... a new fixed variable JT component!

@tgracia thanks for the links ,they don't ship to Alaska :( besides my expirment money is not although the the meter you mentioned should be on my list, I've got some scrap electronics , I do have plenty of 2n2222 and some veritable resisters, my JT have been hit an miss...mostly miss..lol so I went to 3 cells lighting a led for hours and I'm happy with them, but Faustos vids got stoked again, got 3 wrapped cells with the F 149 only had time to sizzle one cell but I don't think I was long enough.,arg ran out of time.
@Fausto the f149 mix dried to a pretty black crystal mix and the more wraps / formula gave a , for a lack of a better term satisfiying reaction. Also my Epsom mix before was  no where near a strong as yours, so glad I asked, .
I really like your electrolysis method for the one way gate for the mag and copper, beats cooking it.
Thought this was cool....
http://www.ledsales.com.au/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=384
Good night gents.."

Quote from: Heavens Pavement on December 02, 2014, 03:58:22 AM
@tgracia thanks for the links ,they don't ship to Alaska

The inductors will ship to Alaska and there are other sources for other things mentioned, but there is a certain amount of fun working with
scrap components you dig out of the trash. I have a large collection of scrapped electronics components, but haven't played with them
much. I have a to-do list too! lol

I love quotes, so here's one from George Carlin: Never put off 'til tomorrow, what you can put off 'til the next day! lol

Quote from: plengo on December 01, 2014, 12:42:10 PM
I forgot to mention this before. Those cells when super dry (F149) will present a very small micro current, BUT when open they will still present a voltage of +/- 1 volt. The reason the current is so small even with a substantial voltage is because the INTERNAL RESISTANCE of the cell is huge. I think this is one of the reasons Bedini kept saying to "lock the water in" using a hydrate of sorts. I am in a kind of agreement with him.

Now, too much water will cause the "diode layer" (the oxide layers) to deteriorate and allow the metals to decay with time. Too little water resistance is too high. There is a medium where it is just perfect. The hydrates are lacking in this formula, but not on my most recent formulas. But for now lets keep simple and use this very successful formula F149. This cell structure I proposed (see the video) does not have the hydrates so I have to find a different mechanism to hold the water in the right quantity (still working on that substantially - another reason I need more people working on this with tests). In this cell the medium is the PAPER. It will become a very strong and hard crystal structure which is the reason why "paper kitchen towel", it is porous and water absorbent. 

So, I cut the paper to the size of the Magnesium rod's length, apply the formula to the closest of the surface of the Magnesium and roll the
paper. When applying FC62 (zapping) I kept adding Epson solution so that the outside perimeter of the paper which is the one closer to the
copper will be MORE SATURATED of CRYSTALS than the inner perimeter where the Magnesium is present and more saturated of MnO2. I
know this is all rough tentative to accomplish something accordingly with my theory, but it is all I got with my ultra limited resources and
no lab.

The sizzling being fast will dry up the cell as quick as I can to allow faster crystallization, evaporation of water and still maintain the majority of the "designed geometric distribution of chemicals" in place and form the "diode layers". Unfortunately that decreases the repeatability of the experiments. Hey, this is research  ;) .

F149 formula is:

- 2 parts Epson volume
- 1 parts Carbon Activated volume
- 1 parts MnO2 volume.

Fausto, I cooked up one of these, but I think the electrolyte was too thin... it took a long time to cook. I'll post a video when it's done.
Quick question... I have a lot of space since the water boiled out... should I fill it with some activated carbon, or leave it empty? -t
PS - I corrected your parts... always use the least common denominator, so that instead of 3 and 6 parts, you show 1 and 2 parts.

I was thinking about, how to create a test that will empirically show the benefits of the FC62 (Zapping)?


Take 2 pieces of Copper wire. Use one of those in place of the Magnesium ribbon. Build 2 cells, one apply the zapping and the other one don't. Connect meters into the cell (volt/amp) and observe.


Add different mixes of solutions, Epson, Alum, Both, only water and so on. Observe the meters.


You will see that the cell with the zapping will have a much higher voltage/current (although in milli-volts) than the one NOT ZAPPED.


I have NOW being doing this kind of experiments with all sorts of metals and because of the results created the formula F223-2-P, which was the initial intent of this thread, BUT now I see that it is indeed necessary to start from a good beginning before going to a much farther level of progress but even farther from a hands-on-product. This formula F134 with cell 149 (or F149 as I call it) is a good way to have a running cell that lights an LED. Three of those cells SHOULD light an LED without a JT for sure. Another reason I put them together, although, it is less of a more precise test.


You will be surprise how can electrodes of the exact same metal can create a difference of potential consistently. Geometry is the first reason, in our case, the Zapping is the second reason.


Fausto.

I do like feed spoon people but it will depend on the context.


When I used to work as a software engineer I would spoon feed every member of my team. Then later a new CTO hated it. He wanted those being fed fired and hire more already fed developers. He fail to see that my technique created a much better product at mid to long term.


Obviously this CTO came to "rescue" the company since he, by empirically showing his actions (philosophy), was more interested in short term results at the cost of higher turn around than counting that a "tomorrow" will be available to the company, in other words, the company may not have tomorrow as so bad it is it's financial situation.



Off course the CTO/CFO/CEO knew all that but better let no one (employees) know that.


Concerning this forum I AM spoon feeding everyone already but as I see more people coming and some being experienced, like Teo (great work dude), I will by context implement that technique as the need arises.



Fausto.


ps: thanks Teo for spoon feeding me on the JTs too.  ;D

Quote from: tgraca on December 02, 2014, 11:31:48 AM
Fausto, I cooked up one of these, but I think the electrolyte was too thin... it took a long time to cook. I'll post a video when it's done.
Quick question... I have a lot of space since the water boiled out... should I fill it with some activated carbon, or leave it empty? -t
PS - I corrected your parts... always use the least common denominator, so that instead of 3 and 6 parts, you show 1 and 2 parts.

I don't understand the "too long time to cook". I built those Mg ribbons with Copper wire around and it took about 20 seconds to cook. My formula is very thin indeed. I want the smallest quantity possible for the same result.


And yes, the smallest common denominator is better. I said 6 and 3 for 50 ml so that one can have enough for 50 cells.


Don't fill the space at all. That space will be where the EPSON SOLUTION will settle and grow the crystals and "breath". Those techniques are not perfect but they work.


Fausto.

Quote from: plengo on December 02, 2014, 12:14:19 PM
I don't understand the "too long time to cook". I built those Mg ribbons with Copper wire around and it took about 20 seconds to cook. My formula is very thin indeed. I want the smallest quantity possible for the same result. Don't fill the space at all. That space will be where the EPSON SOLUTION will settle and grow the crystals and "breath". Those techniques are not perfect but they work. Fausto.

I cooked it for about 10 minutes total. I had filled it to the brim with liquid, so that was my mistake. Next time I will just wet the coffee filter and leave it at that. I will add some hydrate #5 in my next mix, as in...

- 2 parts Epson volume
- 1 parts Carbon Activated volume
- 1 part MnO2 volume
- 1 part hydrate #5

This video is still compiling... it's only 9 minutes, but it takes about 10 minutes to compile just 1 minute of video with my current set up. I have been working on and off with video production for over 30 years, and I can tell you that all these upgrades to operating systems and the video editing software are really downgrades. At the industry's peak back in the early 2000's with much slower computers, video used to compile at the rate of 1 minute per 1 minute... I hate those that force these downgrades on us regularly... my video editing software reaches out and pulls ads for new "upgrades" - rat bastards!!!!

Quote from: tgraca on December 02, 2014, 12:34:17 PM
I cooked it for about 10 minutes total. I had filled it to the brim with liquid, so that was my mistake. Next time I will just wet the coffee filter and leave it at that. I will add some hydrate #5 in my next mix, as in...

Here's the video on the complete build... actually.. I have another video I am working on to show the hookup to the circuit I sent Fausto with 2 polarized caps... I'll be interested to see how long this cell powers it.
http://youtu.be/ZnLn2yR7DQU

Quote from: tgraca on December 02, 2014, 02:00:47 PM
Here's the video on the complete build... actually.. I have another video I am working on to show the hookup to the circuit I sent Fausto with 2 polarized caps... I'll be interested to see how long this cell powers it.
http://youtu.be/ZnLn2yR7DQU (http://youtu.be/ZnLn2yR7DQU)

I am laughing my butt off. The mess is beautiful.  ;D ;D


Here is my recommendation. At about 3:22 of this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fK2tLQdXp0&list=UUnksPMgpb_B4I2KvNHZb5xw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fK2tLQdXp0&list=UUnksPMgpb_B4I2KvNHZb5xw)) you will notice how tick is the paper around the Magensium in ratio to the copper. It is tight. Yours is too loose, too much liquid. Also notice the "4 cell unit" how the Mg is solidly positioned inside the copper pipe.


The pictures show a Magnesium rod with its paper wet with F149. Then I roll the rod over the paper and becomes a hot dog kind of pipe.


In the case of a Mg ribbon I would think a 24" long paper wrapped around the Mg for that pipe will work. What you need is enough paper to make the Mg ribbon tight inside the pipe. The paper being very wet with the formula but not swimming in the formula.


First picture is AFTER I cooked and I am opening to inspect the rod. The second is BEFORE I cook it. In my case with a 1/4 inch rod I am using around 24" paper for a 1/2 inch diameter copper pipe.

Another important point is that AFTER cooking you should have pretty much useless power from the cell. Then slowly she will grow exponentially.


Then she will die and the "dormant" phase will be the next (12 months???). I am trying now to figure out how to short that "dormant" period. I don't know yet how to do that, unfortunately. We will have to find out to have what I have (posted on the graphs).

Fausto.

Quote from: plengo on December 02, 2014, 02:28:14 PM
I am laughing my butt off. The mess is beautiful.  ;D ;D
notice ..the Magensium in ratio to the copper. It is tight. Yours is too loose, too much liquid.
... the "dormant" phase will be the next 12 months - Fausto.

Glad you liked that video! It was a lot of fun exercising the Fausto Sizzle!

The purpose of putting the mag inside the copper tube is to contain the mess. I am creating useful nightlights for this month and
will continue along those lines until my home is filled with these little batteries and JT's... I don't mind varying the formula and builds
as long as they look ok and aren't messy. In the next video, you will see my straw breather...

I get the 1/2" copper pipe for $1.10 per foot, but making a tighter fit with 3/8" copper tubing (not pipe) will cost me $1.80 per foot,
so that's ain't gonna happen.  Also, I am thinking of just filling the pipe with paper to soak up more liquid. Although the mag strips
may curve a bit inside, overall I don't think that will matter much.

I could shorten the builds to accommodate a straighter set of mag strips (like 2" instead of 3") or lock the mag strips into place using
something like circular wood or pvc cuts or just caulk... Anyway, that's the path I am on...

re: 12 month wait... if I can't plug it in right away and start using it, that is not going to work for me. My goal is:

1. less than $1 per JT and crystal battery
2. at least a week between maintenance cycles, and
3. a life span of at least 6 months with the possibility of rebuilding them for less than $0.20

I am currently building these for less than $1 each and getting 6+ months use, so the low maintenance is the only goal left for me.

PS - the last 3 builds (256-358) started at over 200 mA - they pegged my meter... so we are onto something good!

Quote from: tgraca on December 02, 2014, 02:57:34 PM
My goal is:

1. less than $1 per JT and crystal battery
2. at least a week between maintenance cycles, and
3. a life span of at least 6 months with the possibility of rebuilding them for less than $0.20

I am currently building these for less than $1 each and getting 6+ months use, so the low maintenance is the only goal left for me.

PS - the last 3 builds (256-358) started at over 200 mA - they pegged my meter... so we are onto something good!

Here's part 2 for the other video
http://youtu.be/lWCjz6NVJV0

Quote from: tgraca on December 02, 2014, 03:17:35 PM
Here's part 2 for the other video
http://youtu.be/lWCjz6NVJV0

So... I have seen this a lot with these last 3 cells. The voltage goes down fairly quick under load. After 2.5 hours, it went from 1,300 mV down to 940 mV.... I reconnected the meter to test draw (load) and the JT circuit was pulling 1.42 mV, which is fairly high for this circuit... Then I disconnected the battery completely and shorted the battery to find over 130 mA... after several minutes, it was up and down, but settled at around 110 mA, which is really high for a battery like this.... so... it has low internal resistance (bad), but high amperage on short (excellent)... I am not sure what to make of this... The real test is time... the good thing about the JT circuits I build is that they work well down to about 800 mV, but this one will work well down to less than 600 mV... we'll see over the long term....

Quote from: tgraca on December 02, 2014, 04:08:53 PM
So... I have seen this a lot with these last 3 cells. The voltage goes down fairly quick under load. After 2.5 hours, it went from 1,300 mV down to 940 mV.... I reconnected the meter to test draw (load) and the JT circuit was pulling 1.42 mV, which is fairly high for this circuit... Then I disconnected the battery completely and shorted the battery to find over 130 mA... after several minutes, it was up and down, but settled at around 110 mA, which is really high for a battery like this.... so... it has low internal resistance (bad), but high amperage on short (excellent)... I am not sure what to make of this... The real test is time... the good thing about the JT circuits I build is that they work well down to about 800 mV, but this one will work well down to less than 600 mV... we'll see over the long term....

After a few more minutes while the battery recovered from the short, the battery was showing 1240 mV, and when I connected it back up to the JT circuit, it dropped to 840 mV, but is still climbing. We'll see how many days it can hang out above 800 mV... I'll report back...

Quote from: tgraca on December 02, 2014, 04:08:53 PM
... it has low internal resistance (bad), but high amperage on short (excellent)....

low resistance being bad?? I thought lower the resistance better. Lead acid batteries are lower than 1 ohm. Lower resistance would mean that the current going THROUGH the battery will not be wasted in heat.


Please correct me.


Fausto.

Is 358 first and 2 with F149 zapped?


Fausto.

Quote from: plengo on December 02, 2014, 06:43:07 PM
Is 358 first and 2 with F149 zapped? - Fausto.

Yes. Your exact formula. 2 to 1 to 1... flooded though... I will add a bunch of coffee filter, wet it down and add hydrate #5 next time...
We will truly test this... I added a bunch of notes in my posts about issues with the builds you suggested and what I plan to do...
not sure if you read them... look above...

Quote from: tgraca on December 02, 2014, 06:49:28 PM
Yes. Your exact formula. 2 to 1 to 1... flooded though... I will add a bunch of coffee filter, wet it down and add hydrate #5 next time...
We will truly test this... I added a bunch of notes in my posts about issues with the builds you suggested and what I plan to do...
not sure if you read them... look above...

Great. I do read everything but sometimes I still miss info. Updated the sheet. I will try to put this sheet on the first post for progress log.

Fausto.

ON the first post I added a PDF of the Logs. It looks awful but it is a start.

Fausto.

today i tried a quick n dirty experiment , copper and copper in a solution of epsom and another in alum.
espom one turned solution blue/green, positive copper(pipe) a almost yellowish look...interesting, the negative (coiled26 wire), well it got eaten and turned into a darkish goo.
the Alum solution turned that pretty red like when i use a torch and the black falls off, and before my posits scrawny alligator clip smoked, cough cough the positive(pipe again) started to get that pretty red. the negative (flattened #12 wire was getting a black layer.
BTW my 30v poet supply didn't like the experiment , prob too much amps i guess, so i used my alum converted lead battery at about11.75 volts.
my new Fausto triple wrap cell was about 1.42 v i put it on my blocking oscillater.It light my white led kinda dim, checked on it 20 minutes later and was brighter..no water added,this was after yesterdays sizzle treatment.
Forgot to put it on the radio shack meter to chart it, loooong work day...

I have only seen Bedini work with Mn2O3 and not Mn2O2 or MnO2. He warned about the dangers of Mn2O3.
From my notes:
MnO2 - Manganese(IV): (not toxic - from Pyrolusite ore)
- low toxicity and low environmental impact, and...
- - no changes in chemical composition at less than 450 degrees F
- - (ref. Batteries and Energy Technology (General) - 217th ECS Meeting, Issue 30)
- aka cryptomelane
- heating with oxygen at 450-800 F produces α-Mn2O3
- Mn2O3 is formed by the redox reaction in an alkaline cell
- - 2 MnO2 + Zn → Mn2O3 + ZnO
Mn2O3 - Manganese(III) (toxic - from Braunite ore)
- aka oxo-(oxomanganiooxy)manganese
Mn2O2 - Manganese(II) (toxic)
- aka birnessite or manganese tetraoxide

From wikipedia: The principal use for MnO2 is for dry-cell batteries, such as the alkaline battery and the zinc-carbon battery.
MnO2 is also used as a pigment and as a precursor to other manganese compounds, such as KMnO4.
It is used as a reagent in organic synthesis, for example, for the oxidation of allylic alcohols.

Shortened the copper pipe and using less mag strip - 34"
The cost of this battery for me is about $0.35 and takes little time to build
no cooking or charging - in my previous post, I noted the issue with the thermo-electric charge heating things up over 450 degrees F
specifically, toxic gases...

Video for Crystal Battery Build #359: http://youtu.be/Wj_imbez8iQ

This formula is similar battery #354, which is doing well after a week.
6 parts activated carbon
3 parts Epsom salt
1 parts hydrate #5
1 parts MnO2
thick borax/water mix coated on twine and coffee filter over mag. strips
filtered water blended to make a thick paste for electrolyte and main formula

approx. 10 minutes to build one, but will try to slim that to 5 minutes...
The key new feature is manganese IV - thank you Fausto!
These batteries are much stronger, and my builds are getting smaller and stronger thanks to your idea contribution of manganese IV!!!

The cell was what I consider dead in less than 20 hours this morning.
It was showing less than 750 mV with less than a 250 uA (1/4 mA) draw on my blinker circuit.
I hooked it up to one of my low power JT's and that's where it is now.

The problem with this Fausto Sizzle process is that it adds a crap load of new variables, like voltage used, amperage used,
electorlyte dryness or wetness, the amount of electrolyte and air, etc... the list goes on. If you want a replicatable process,
you have to remove as many variables as possible.

Also, if you looked at my post on manganese, you will see that if it heats the cell to over 450 degrees F, there is a very
real possibility of creating toxic gasses. Finally, if cost is an issue, which it is for me, you have to consider the cost of
power used to create these cells, which complicates matters significantly.

Fausto... since I won't be doing this "Fausto Sizzle" any more, let me know if you want me to move my posts somewhere
else. I like having an outlet and would rather post here, and I think my experiments might help you in some way, but if you
think it will be an issue, let me know and I will start a new thread.

Thank you so much for your contribution to my research so far. The MnO2 was a major step forward for me. -t

PS - I really did enjoy finding power sources for the Fausto Sizzle and making a big mess with our intense monkey style! lol
One thing I learned from that first 47 minute video is that if you have copyrighted music playing in the background too loud,
YouTube will put ads in your video, even if it is unlisted, for the copyright owners, which is really uncool. If you have 99%
original material on your videos, owned by you, YT trumps this... I fought a battle with them on me using public domain
video and won, but their intellectual property policies are not only unfair, but fraudulent... - FYI - but it's nice to have a place
to post videos, so cudo's to YT at least for that!

Quote from: tgraca on December 01, 2014, 06:48:02 AM
These are holding up...
#354 is at 1065 mV under load
#355 is at 782 mV under load. This one was unsealed, so it is drying out.
- Opened it up and watered it, then resealed it. It's at 982 mV under load.

Seems we have a winner here. Today, after a week the cell is holding at 1056 mV under load.
That's less than a 1/2 volt loss in a week, which means it might run reliably for a month under load
before it needs to be injected with a little water. At this rate, the 1 month mark would be 900 mV under load,
which would mean I have met my final goal, provided it will gain strength with a little water....
Final goal was a crystal battery that could last a month without maintenance at over 750 mV under constant load....
Boooyaaa!

Thanks Fausto! I will keep you updated!

PS - this is easily replicated with no cooking or charging.

@Teo,


I am very happy that you found a good solution for your goals. Please, continue posting here your findings, this thread is for EXPERIMENTERs and you are one. It is not about me and MY formula. It is about getting this into a new level with people doing a more scientific approach instead of just putting things together and hopping for the best.


Testing and repeatability are the keys.


A note on my FC62 process: I don't go over 100 C ever. I only need a little bit over 100 C which is the water boiling point. The remainder is just the current for the electrolysis.


Fausto.

Quote from: plengo on December 03, 2014, 05:23:07 PM
@Teo, I am very happy that you found a good solution for your goals. Please, continue posting here your findings, this thread is for EXPERIMENTERs and you are one. It is not about me and MY formula. It is about getting this into a new level with people doing a more scientific approach instead of just putting things together and hopping for the best. Testing and repeatability are the keys. A note on my FC62 process: I don't go over 400 F ever. I only need a little bit over 100 F which is the water boiling point. The remainder is just the current for the electrolysis. Fausto.

Thanks Fausto... I am promoting this thread with every video (23 so far). I am reviewing Patrick Kelly's documentation on JT circuits
at the moment. He claims to have found ways of get 10+ COP and using JT's to power LED's and charge batteries. As with others I have
seen actually do this, he claims that you need at least 2.3 V input, but we should be able to use these crystal batteries with just 1 V to do
the same thing, in my humble opinion. I have seen this... See his chapter 5 - he updates it often, so use the html link here:

http://www.free-energy-info.com/Chapt5.html

I hope to master this process soon.... when I do, I would simply add a battery slot to charge AA or AAA batteries from the crystal battery
and circuit... I tried several experiments with this today and had as many failures... Every failure is just another documented way (to me)
not to do it... like the old Edison quote, but still tough to deal with so many failures... I think I have tried 30+ variations of this so far to
date... ;(

PS - I think you meant 100 C, which is 212 F. (not 100 F), which is the approx. boiling point of water, depending on your altitude... Let
us know if you have a way to control temperature in your cooks... this is yet another variable in that process that would require exact
control for proper replication of the "Fausto Sizzle"!

sharing a video from a subscriber: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhOXVIQhhpQ&list=UUsC7Pga6h9RjpyopPyzPjNw


Fausto.

Quote from: plengo on December 03, 2014, 09:48:57 PM
sharing a video from a subscriber: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhOXVIQhhpQ&list=UUsC7Pga6h9RjpyopPyzPjNw
Fausto.

This stuff is readily available as bleach (about 5% by volume) and pool cleaning solutions, like he has, I am guessing around 15%.
I looked up some local brands, but couldn't determine the %. You can get it in a powder, which is easier to store and might give
you a better way to mix your cells. I don't any sitting around, but I'll take a look at what's available locally and see what the % is.

I posted my usual questions for Pete on the video. How long does it last initially? How long does it last between maintenance cycles?
How quickly does it eat the magnesium?  If he doesn't answer them soon, I may give it a try myself. The problem I see right away is
that it will probably eat right through my little caulk builds. Also, there are possible issues with chlorine gas and small quantities of
harmful byproducts. Plus, these probably have a bad odor.

Quote from: tgraca on December 04, 2014, 07:48:43 AM
This stuff is readily available as bleach (about 5% by volume) and pool cleaning solutions, like he has, I am guessing around 15%.
I looked up some local brands, but couldn't determine the %. You can get it in a powder, which is easier to store and might give
you a better way to mix your cells. I don't any sitting around, but I'll take a look at what's available locally and see what the % is.

I posted my usual questions for Pete on the video. How long does it last initially? How long does it last between maintenance cycles?
How quickly does it eat the magnesium?  If he doesn't answer them soon, I may give it a try myself. The problem I see right away is
that it will probably eat right through my little caulk builds. Also, there are possible issues with chlorine gas and small quantities of
harmful byproducts. Plus, these probably have a bad odor.

Missed it the first time, but viewing that video again, I can see the mix is 125g/liter, which is 12.5%... I might make one of these
today with just bleach and see what happens. I do have some bleach, which is probably a little over 5%.

Quote from: tgraca on December 04, 2014, 08:35:40 AM
Missed it the first time, but viewing that video again, I can see the mix is 125g/liter, which is 12.5%... I might make one of these
today with just bleach and see what happens. I do have some bleach, which is a little over 5%.

The bleach I had said it was 8.25% NaClO... I'll hook this up to a JT later... after it stops stinking! That bleach smell is horrible...
In any case, I am fine tuning my builds. The paper on the bottom worked out well. Folding most of the mag strip below the top
of the copper pipe works well and gives more mag in the electrolyte. The dental floss allows the mag to get closer to the copper.
stuffing the top with coffee filter allows the crystal to grow. I am not sure if the bleach will push open the seal, but I'll track that.
After this build, I definitely don't recommend using bleach... ugghhh...

Video on the build: http://youtu.be/BXoVU7P5rHk

I think that if you don't zap cells, it's important to put them under load right away. I think this polarizes the electrolyte while it is forming.
I also wanted to test my digital amp meter readings against a few of my analog meters. #360 pegged over 200 mA on both and after 45
minutes shorted, it at 25 mA. #359 wasn't used for about a day and I ran the same tests, which started at 8 mA on short, but built up to
18 mA fairly quickly and has been holding there for the last 45 minutes. These are strong little cells.

PS - #360 has leaked more than 6 drops... It is probably reacting with the Epsom and/or caulk. In any case, the caulk ain't holding the
cell shut, so there is some kind of pressure building in the cell. My recommendation for this type of cell... just say no! lol

I am creating a video showing how to build a very simple cell using FC62 that is really easy to build and fast. The results are very interesting.

Fausto.

Here is a f149cell (with f30v treatment) on charted over night, kept getting brighter before i went to bed. oscillator quit workings the only reason i took it off(drat)
the other is a old alum cell given the the f30v treatment with alum, 24 hours later just as bright, this is my longest running cell by far!

It was 14 days old today and was getting dim. 721 mV on load. This was the dry build with PVC pipe - Fausto's mix will a
borax/water solution as the only water on the coffee filter around the mag strip and only 24" of 24 AWG copper wrapped
tightly around the coffee filter - dry electrolyte pinched in....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UChgvI68y5M - original video on this cell

I punched a hole in one end and watered it... it built up quickly to 1044 mV under load. I pulled it apart to check the
electrodes... with most of the electrolyte still in the PVC pipe and just a bit on the electrodes, it was showing 1756 mV
without load and 16+ mA on short, but went down to about 12 mA in about 15 seconds.

I washed it and found some black coating on the copper, but no deterioration. The borax had crystallized to some
extent on the mag strips and there was very little deterioration... barely any, but there was some. I will probably
recycle the electrodes...

I noticed that it was shorting out a bit after I punched a hole to water the cell. I think that taping copper wire onto the
mag strip just isn't going to work for me. I have to factor in the cost of a little alligator clip per cell now... oh well....
this solution works well... The alligator clip is soldered on to the emitter side of the JT and also offers an easy access
point for testing amp draw (load). ;)  -t

Quote from: Heavens Pavement on December 05, 2014, 01:01:30 AM
Here is a f149cell (with f30v treatment) on charted over night, kept getting brighter before i went to bed. oscillator quit workings the only reason i took it off(drat)
the other is a old alum cell given the the f30v treatment with alum, 24 hours later just as bright, this is my longest running cell by far!

How long did it run? It looks like it was about 500 mV under load. What is the draw (mA load) on that JT with that battery?

Quote from: Heavens Pavement on December 05, 2014, 01:01:30 AM
Here is a f149cell (with f30v treatment) on charted over night, kept getting brighter before i went to bed. oscillator quit workings the only reason i took it off(drat)
the other is a old alum cell given the the f30v treatment with alum, 24 hours later just as bright, this is my longest running cell by far!

Great work. THe graph is the F149, what happen in the end? It went up so fast? Is that the part where it was under load?


Let is DIE. Do not add water or anything. Let it DIE first, which is the phase it will become "dormant".


Will you be able to later put the Alum cell under the graph too?




Fausto.

Quote from: tgraca on December 04, 2014, 12:10:14 PM
I think that if you don't zap cells, it's important to put them under load right away. I think this polarizes the electrolyte while it is forming

This was the first reason for my original FC62. I noticed that cells that are born under load performed better than cells not under load at LONG TERM.


Fausto.

Quote from: tgraca on December 05, 2014, 12:21:51 PM
It was 14 days old today and was getting dim. 721 mV on load. This was the dry build with PVC pipe - Fausto's mix will a
borax/water solution as the only water on the coffee filter around the mag strip and only 24" of 24 AWG copper wrapped
tightly around the coffee filter - dry electrolyte pinched in....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UChgvI68y5M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UChgvI68y5M) - original video on this cell

I punched a hole in one end and watered it... it built up quickly to 1044 mV under load. I pulled it apart to check the
electrodes... with most of the electrolyte still in the PVC pipe and just a bit on the electrodes, it was showing 1756 mV
without load and 16+ mA on short, but went down to about 12 mA in about 15 seconds.

I washed it and found some black coating on the copper, but no deterioration. The borax had crystallized to some
extent on the mag strips and there was very little deterioration... barely any, but there was some. I will probably
recycle the electrodes...

I noticed that it was shorting out a bit after I punched a hole to water the cell. I think that taping copper wire onto the
mag strip just isn't going to work for me. I have to factor in the cost of a little alligator clip per cell now... oh well....
this solution works well... The alligator clip is soldered on to the emitter side of the JT and also offers an easy access
point for testing amp draw (load). ;)  -t

Excellent. We need to determine if the corrosion in the Mg is because the initial formation or was also because its life usage. That has been the CORNERSTONE of my research when I noticed that I could not "intuitively" account for the energy out based in only corrosion.


Fausto.

Quote from: plengo on December 05, 2014, 01:54:11 PM
Excellent. We need to determine if the corrosion in the Mg is because the initial formation or was also because its life usage. That has been the CORNERSTONE of my research when I noticed that I could not "intuitively" account for the energy out based in only corrosion. - Fausto.

As these cells are lasting longer, it will be some bit of time before I get around to dissecting these others, so it will be a waiting
game... I have been averaging one build a day for the last year, so when they do die, I will have close to daily dissections....
PS - since the only water in that cell was around the mag strip, I would imagine it was a combination of the initial formation
AND the constant usage.

@Fausto yes in was under oscillator load. Built it dry added Epsom 30v DC for an hour. Hooked it up added the Epsom . What you don't see is 8000 seconds pevious were voltage went up after Epsom the. Added oscillator load and it went to what you see at beginning of graph, I was try to zoom in on  it I stopped the graph and it started over grrrr.
went to bed and that is what I saw the next day.
I ended it because the oscillator quit working( haven't figured that out), as in its broke!
I could chart my alum one but I have 3 fausto cells straight on a led now. It's dim on a white led but voltage was right in where yours was ( apples to apples so to speak)
I'll post that late tonight which will be wee hours for you I believe.
Wish I had a usb multimeter that would work on Mac....

Quote from: Heavens Pavement on December 05, 2014, 04:50:20 PM
@Fausto yes in was under oscillator load. Built it dry added Epsom 30v DC for an hour.

Thank you.


One hour on 30VDC???? Something is very wrong. I will make a video showing a very small cell using one strip of Mg and copper wire that takes exactly 20 seconds to form the cell using FC62.


Fausto.

@ Fausto since you can dial your power supply and mines a straight 30v DC supply from a printer if you could do one at 30v and tell me how long you do it thanks

My Crystal Cell #359 represents a new type of build in terms of the amounts of copper and magnesium, so I have been working for
the last couple days on configuring a new JT circuit specifically for this build. I am also working on one for RED and Yellow LED's.
Also, I just got a Hypodermic Needle in to make it easy to add water to these after a couple or few weeks. I destroyed #351 trying to
add water... so we'll see how this works. I have a video compiling on my initial tests with some of my existing JT's against cell #359
to demonstrate some of the techniques I use to fine tune these things and offer a few conclusions on what I think works best.

I was reviewing an old Bedini video on the monopole circuit, which he says is better than any JT circuit and I noticed it was drawing
10 mA. I have tried his monopole circuit before without any success... no efficiency... not much light. If you have had better experience
with it, I would love to learn how you got it! I also tried several of the JT circuits documented by Patrick Kelly and had the same
experience. It's probably just me, but I know that if I can get something to work, anyone can, and those techniques are what I focus
on and fine tune... -t

Quote from: Heavens Pavement on December 06, 2014, 02:35:58 PM
@ Fausto since you can dial your power supply and mines a straight 30v DC supply from a printer if you could do one at 30v and tell me how long you do it thanks

Will do.


Fausto.

Quote from: tgraca on December 06, 2014, 04:21:23 PM
My Crystal Cell #359 represents a new type of build in terms of the amounts of copper and magnesium, so I have been working for
the last couple days on configuring a new JT circuit specifically for this build.

Here's the video on this, which includes some of the techniques I use to fine JT circuits for crystal battery builds and load:
http://youtu.be/BazyDw-Crlw

Status on Cell #149.


First photo: Part 3 Begin, December 1,
Second photo: battery of meter died (ironic) at 240 k samples.
Third photo: continuation after 240 k samples until the end another of 180 k samples totaling around 420 k samples.


This cell is giving around 2 mA to the LED continously.



Total running time:

Seconds:   1,600,000.00   
Minutes:   26,666.67   
Hours:   444.4   
Days:   18.5   
Months:   0.6   
Years :  0.05


Total Joules delivered so far:  8,256.

(please correct me).

btw, I am trying in this thread have a replication of THIS cell but in a much smaller size and faster "dormancy" time period so that ANYONE can replicate with no more than $.50 cents in cost and 15 minutes build. Acceptable one week dormancy time with following activation and very, very, very long running time without adding water.

Fausto.

Quote from: plengo on December 06, 2014, 04:36:37 PM
Status on 149. Part 3 Begin, battery of meter died at 240 k samples (to be continued on next photo), part 3 restarted after
240 k samples, Part 3 END and beginning of Part 4. - Fausto.

Since the pattern of decay is basically flat, it might be more useful to look at one reading per day over weeks or months to get
a real feel for what's going on... looking at a day or 2 with a flat reading doesn't tell us much more than "it ran flat for a day or
2" - I would love to know how it's done over weeks, months, years.... even start date and now readings (just 2) would give
a real feel for how the decay rate is moving along.

For example: If a cell runs under load constantly for 2 weeks and starts at 1100 mA under load and ends up at 800 mV after 2 weeks,
it may look like a flat line in 12 hours, but with just those 2 reading and the number of days (14), we can calculate a daily decay
rate, which is what I think is important over weeks, months and years... in this case, the average decay rate is 1100 mV start
minus 800 mV current = 400 mV total decay, divided by 14 days equals 28.57 mV decay per day.

I know Bedini told everyone to get one of those programs and use it to monitor crystal batteries with it, but imagine having one
for every battery. You would have to have a computer for each battery. It doesn't make sense, UNLESS the load test is just for a
day or 2 or less... am I wrong here? Just my opinion....

Looking at those pictures, I still can't determine the total decay rate over the hand-typed 18.5 days. Can you hand type the start and
end voltage so we can determine the daily decay rate? It looks like almost NONE, but I am still not sure.... Thanks Fausto!!!

PS - Awesome Cells... the best I have seen... I came up with 8272 joules... for 3 cells, that would be 2757 per cell...
An AAA NiMh cell rated at 3000 aH and 1.2 V would give (based on the rating) 9,000,000 joules... please check my math too...
I get these for a little less than $0.60 delivered, so the only real advantage to crystal batteries is that we can build them with stuff
from home... in my humble opinion... and they are fun to play with! lol

Quote from: tgraca on December 06, 2014, 04:51:22 PM
Since the pattern of decay is basically flat, it might be more useful to look at one reading per day over weeks or months to get
a real feel for what's going on... looking at a day or 2 with a flat reading doesn't tell us much more than "it ran flat for a day or
2" - I would love to know how it's done over weeks, months, years.... even start date and now readings (just 2) would give
a real feel for how the decay rate is moving along.

For example: If a cell runs under load constantly for 2 weeks and starts at 1100 mA under load and ends up at 800 mV after 2 weeks,
it may look like a flat line in 12 hours, but with just those 2 reading and the number of days (14), we can calculate a daily decay
rate, which is what I think is important over weeks, months and years... in this case, the average decay rate is 1100 mV start
minus 800 mV current = 400 mV total decay, divided by 14 days equals 28.57 mV decay per day.

I know Bedini told everyone to get one of those programs and use it to monitor crystal batteries with it, but imagine having one
for every battery. You would have to have a computer for each battery. It doesn't make sense, UNLESS the load test is just for a
day or 2 or less... am I wrong here? Just my opinion....

That's why I am posting the COMPLETE reading since it started (or was activated). One can do what you are proposing but simply choosing the FIRST voltage (or voltage shown on the meter at the picture time) and average it. This cell once was activated started at 2.581 volts and around 2 mA delivery over that Green 10 mm LED. Today is 2.585??!!!! So far she is winning big time. Let's see in months.


Unfortunately if I leave her for months on the ONLY meter I have, I am in trouble.  ;D

Quote from: tgraca on December 06, 2014, 04:59:35 PM
Looking at those pictures, I still can't determine the total decay rate over the hand-typed 18.5 days. Can you hand type the start and
end voltage so we can determine the daily decay rate? It looks like almost NONE, but I am still not sure.... Thanks Fausto!!!

PS - Awesome Cells... the best I have seen...

That's correct, no decay based on the numbers but the opposite, a gain of around 0.005 volts.


Fausto.

Quote from: plengo on December 06, 2014, 05:06:40 PM
That's correct, no decay based on the numbers but the opposite, a gain of around 0.05 volts.
Fausto.

I am not sure what the cost of the initial charge is, and although we could calculate joules used in the initial charge, and at 60+ volts,
it may come to over a month of running these cells, if some free energy generation mechanism was used, it wouldn't matter...
much...

I looked at your work with something like the Telsa Switch and it looked very promising, but very different from what Patrick Kelly has
documented. I have also seen people work with electrets using just capacitors. Here's Beardon's description of an electret.

http://www.cheniere.org/references/electret.htm

It looks promising, but the few experiments I have tried with this and the Tesla Switch have failed miserably. I use solar panels. Sure
they cost money, but if you calculate the joules produced over a 30 year period and the current cost of electricity, it is a bargain...
and yes... I have a lot of experience as a systems analyst, so I have analysed these costs extensively with solar and that is an easy way
to cheap electricity and free electricity at certain points in a 30 year plan.

Anyway... I am almost ready to build 4 more cells and do the Fausto Sizzle using 2 of my low powered solar panels, which will give
over 30 V and about 800 mA.... I anticipate 20 seconds just to go with what you have said recently. What do you think? Give them
a quick zap?

Here is a update of my f149 3 cells under a 5mm white LED load from epsom solution add tip now, interesting graph to me, i probably made this wrong, but thats ok Im going to let this go til it goes 0 or buffer runs out.


My Alum cell given the F30v sizzle is still going but definitly dimmer. that even got thumbs up from family members ;) .

Here is the kind and size of cell I have been trying to do to replicate my successful cell #149 (the one in the graphs) that only takes 20 seconds zapping.


Fausto.

Quote from: tgraca on December 06, 2014, 05:27:59 PM
I am not sure what the cost of the initial charge is, and although we could calculate joules used in the initial charge, and at 60+ volts,
it may come to over a month of running these cells, if some free energy generation mechanism was used, it wouldn't matter...
much...

I looked at your work with something like the Telsa Switch and it looked very promising, but very different from what Patrick Kelly has
documented. I have also seen people work with electrets using just capacitors. Here's Beardon's description of an electret.

http://www.cheniere.org/references/electret.htm (http://www.cheniere.org/references/electret.htm)

It looks promising, but the few experiments I have tried with this and the Tesla Switch have failed miserably. I use solar panels. Sure
they cost money, but if you calculate the joules produced over a 30 year period and the current cost of electricity, it is a bargain...
and yes... I have a lot of experience as a systems analyst, so I have analysed these costs extensively with solar and that is an easy way
to cheap electricity and free electricity at certain points in a 30 year plan.

Anyway... I am almost ready to build 4 more cells and do the Fausto Sizzle using 2 of my low powered solar panels, which will give
over 30 V and about 800 mA.... I anticipate 20 seconds just to go with what you have said recently. What do you think? Give them
a quick zap?

My Tesla switch work was really for fun. I do have the real Tesla Switch circuit but I never really used.


The zapping should be on small cells. Large cells will take too long indeed. Even my cell #149 (the one in the graphs) took a little bit of time, like 10 minutes, to form it correctly.


Now with small sizes the time goes exponentially faster for the zapping.

Fausto.

@ Fausto..
you built 4 cells(2"long in straws?)
zapped 20seconds each and then sealed in tap?.or was there another step??
from your experience, how long do you expect to last??
my Alum cell is really dim now, so 3 days out of a 1/2" and cap and magnesium fire starter ..
Fausto any suggestions on this?
and yes Jesus is Lord ;D

re: Pete's Video - Pete answered my questions - see QA below
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhOXVIQhhpQ

Q: Nice! How long do they run before you have to add something to revive them, and then how long between
maintenance cycles? My guess is more than once each week. Also, how long does the magnesium last? Thanks! -t 

A: "Some I have doped once a week with a few drops but they stay on 24 / 7.
Another was made into a night light and runs only at night but is also doped with a few drops once a week.
Another one was only doped once and is still going after a month 24 / 7 with a joule thief.
Another has not been used to power anything of duration but I still dope it. Testing shows a very powerful cell.
I will update soon. Thanks for asking."

Quote from: Heavens Pavement on December 07, 2014, 03:02:12 AM
@ Fausto..
you built 4 cells(2"long in straws?)
zapped 20seconds each and then sealed in tap?.or was there another step??
from your experience, how long do you expect to last??
my Alum cell is really dim now, so 3 days out of a 1/2" and cap and magnesium fire starter ..
Fausto any suggestions on this?
and yes Jesus is Lord ;D

That's correct, 2" long or so milk shake straw with Mg ribbon wrapped in 2" x 5" paper with stranded copper wire right in the end of the last wrap of the paper. All like a sandwich "hot dog". Zap 20 seconds OR until no more smoke (vapor) comes out.


I do not expect this cell to run for more than 5 days, BUT, I am trying to achieve here is the "dormancy" step. This is a must for replicating my running cell on the graphs.


My graphs is shown as an INCENTIVE to everyone to see that indeed it is possible to create a cell that stands a long, long, long time running, may be months. I want to create one that stands for years without needing water. Now, this cell on the graph waited months to be reactivated which I agree is too long for anyone.


With this small cell on the picture I am trying to create a base-line of a very cheap and easy to make cell that ANYONE can work with and try to achieve what I have done.


I hear that big cells takes too long, or are too expensive or are too difficult. This one on the picture is very small, simple and easy. Ready available materials that a kid can build. But, it is not easy to replicate my work successfully. Even I am having trouble doing it.


Another reason why THIS THREAD.


I can guide the horse to the lake but not make it drink the water.


Fausto.

I forgot to mention that those small cell in my pictures run for about 5 days without adding water but adding water will stand for much longer time.


Fausto.

Quote from: tgraca on November 28, 2014, 02:31:52 PM
970 mV under load today. I may have not let it recover after the short mA test....

Built November 27, 2014 - start voltage 970 mV - there is a lot of room in the copper pipe, so jiggling the mag strip could increase the
voltage up to over 1100 mV and occasionally I would have to do this to get max brightness. This was the watery electrolyte mix...
December 01, 2014 - 4 days after build, the mag adjustments had opened up one end and had to add water and reseal it.
December 07, 2014 - 13 days after build - had the same problem... took the mag strip out, added a pinch of Epsom, then put the
mag strip back in, added 5 mL of water, then sealed it.  It's showing around 900 mV, but can be jiggled to get over 1100 mV.
Conclusion: pack a dryer electrolyte to reduce maintenance... I'll do something drastic if I have to maintain this cell again in less than
a week from now...

Update on f149 "hotdog" chart..interesting saw tooth

Quote from: Heavens Pavement on December 07, 2014, 07:16:13 PM
Update on f149 "hotdog" chart..interesting saw tooth

Looks excellent. Next time, please, upload pics with 800x600 resolution at least or if you want with higher resolution and I can fix it from my side. I need to see in more detail.


Now, what is the load? and in the end of the graph I see the cell is dying. It is also getting dry??? If not, add more Epson salt solution and FC62 (zap) until smokes and all vapor is gone and amperage is around 10 mA. Let it dry completely and put on graph with a 100 ohm resistor again and let's see the curve.


Please.


Thank you.


Fausto.

load is a white LED of now but the saw tooth pattern is so different that I'm going to let it run til it reaches 0v or buffer runs out.
this was activated is epson and 30v dc sizzle, but too long..like 20 minutes at least each cell...


I updated the graph pic to the resolution asked for. I
would have to scrounge and hope to find a 100 ohm resister.
Ill have to decide weather to do that or graph my alum cell on the oscillator and if i do the alum should   add alum and sizzle again, just alum, epsom, just water????


Is the 100 ohm for the base line measurement or does it have a affect on the cell(s)  (conditioning??)

Quote from: Heavens Pavement on December 08, 2014, 12:02:58 AM
load is a white LED of now but the saw tooth pattern is so different that I'm going to let it run til it reaches 0v or buffer runs out.
this was activated is epson and 30v dc sizzle, but too long..like 20 minutes at least each cell...


I updated the graph pic to the resolution asked for. I
would have to scrounge and hope to find a 100 ohm resister.
Ill have to decide weather to do that or graph my alum cell on the oscillator and if i do the alum should   add alum and sizzle again, just alum, epsom, just water? ???


Is the 100 ohm for the base line measurement or does it have a affect on the cell(s)  (conditioning??)

Thanks for updating the picture. The saw tooth is interesting indeed. 20 minutes is way too long. Please, send me a very close up picture of the cell. If possible make a video showing the zapping in process so that I can tell you what is going wrong.


The zapping with Alum is a totally different thing. For now I want to focus on F149 only. Too many variables to go through.The epson solution is to be used with the zapping only to start the process. Once the cell is under load and dead you should use the Epson solution (a few drops) to "reactivate" the cell and measure the load graph again.


Fausto.

Crystal Batteries #'s 356-357 - created Dec. 1, 2014 (7 days old today)
356 - original reading under load 870 mV - white LED
- current reading 638 mV = 232 mV total loss
- average loss 33 mV per day
357 - original reading under load 930 mV - green LED
- current reading 675 mV = 255 mV total loss
- average loss 36 mV per day
These were the same build and same JT, but different color LED's, which although are rated the same, are slightly different.
There is still enough light for a nightlight, but when they get down to around 600 mV, I will add some water and reseal.

Quote from: tgraca on December 08, 2014, 12:38:26 PM
Crystal Batteries #'s 356-357 - created Dec. 1, 2014 (7 days old today)
356 - original reading under load 870 mV - white LED
- current reading 638 mV = 232 mV total loss
- average loss 33 mV per day
357 - original reading under load 930 mV - green LED
- current reading 675 mV = 255 mV total loss
- average loss 36 mV per day
These were the same build and same JT, but different color LED's, which although are rated the same, are slightly different.
There is still enough light for a nightlight, but when they get down to around 600 mV, I will add some water and reseal.

Thought you graph geeks would like to see a graph! lol

This turned out to be a weak cell. I think it is the borax crystal on the mag strip. I will recycle #'s 344-345 and use a hydrogen
peroxide solution to clean the mag strips from them to see if this makes a difference. I did learn that standard 3%  hydrogen
peroxide does a great job cleaning off copper and magnesium. There was approx. 44" of mag strip in this build. I tuned a new,
really easy to build JT circuit for this cell and it is running really well. No more resistors or caps! Video coming soon! 42+ volts
from this weak cell with the new JT circuit! Stay tuned!

Video: http://youtu.be/A2oIyWrKm8U

PS - I was worried I was going to fry the 3904 transistor, which is rated at 40 volts, but I left it hooked up for an hour before I
connected it to the crystal cell and it seems to be fine after the final build! Note that I gave this cell a 30-second zap too...

So.. using my oscilloscope connected to the new simplified JT circuit between the emitter and collector, I was seeing 20+ volt spikes and
was happy with that, but when I pulled it from the bread board and soldered it together, I was getting over 40 volt spikes. Note that my
new Crystal Battery #361 is very weak and it still does excellent with this tuned JT circuit. I spend the last 3 days on this, so the main
benefit is that I have now ditched the resistor and capacitor so that this JT just has 2 inductors and a transistor. IT's an easy build and
doesn't even need a circuit board to solder it together and fit it on my little shelves. When I shelved it, #361 was showing only 577 mV
under load and it is still my brightest nightlight at the moment. One note... this JT config draws more mA... over 7 when I checked prior
to mounting on the wall....

Video: http://youtu.be/2V2kYAaZ5_E

PS - I am still not sure if zapping the cell really helps. I think just putting it under load right away will polarize the cells and zapping them
may be an unnecessary step. I'll push forward over the next few months to determine that...

@ Fausto I have no doubt your cells are ligit
I don't have equipment for 60v I can do 30v though
I'm going to make new cells and although a 100 ohm resister load sounds very boring to me I'll do it because you asked and I'll chart it
My intuition tells me that zapping speeds the process. In my own cells I've seen where copper turns the Rose color, but it took months For it to happen.. Time will tell. I am enjoying myself in all this

bleach cell with 8.25% NaClO and Espom. So... That bleach smell , which was horrible is finally gone, but so is the cell...
Less than 400 mV under load... it's been dead all day, so I finally tried to pull the core mag out, and it broke right off...
Video on the build: http://youtu.be/BXoVU7P5rHk (http://youtu.be/BXoVU7P5rHk)

See the picture, but my conclusion with sodium hypochlorite (NaClO) and Epsom as an Electrolyte...
ABSOLUTE worst out of my 360+ cells... lol Enjoy the pic! As I said before, when it comes to sodium hypochlorite...
Just say No!!! IT lasted 3.5 days at best.... I don't even want to try to recycle the copper pipe... it's green!

Quote from: tgraca on December 02, 2014, 02:00:47 PM
Here's the video on the complete build... actually.. I have another video I am working on to show the hookup to the circuit I sent Fausto with 2 polarized caps... I'll be interested to see how long this cell powers it.
http://youtu.be/ZnLn2yR7DQU

It stopped working with the JT I had it hooked up to yesterday, so I hooked it up to a really low powered JT and it was
looking pretty weak tonight, so I pulled it... 844 mV withOUT load... zero mA, but that might have been the connection
from the alligator clip to the top of the mag strip. So I pulled the mag core and it was wet... put it back in and the mV
reading was 1158 and it started out at over 12 mA on short and hovered a little less than 3 mA on short for 15 seconds.
I went to pull the core again and it snapped in half. I washed it out and there was almost nothing left of the middle of
the mag core. The taped end was still intact, but there was only 1 strip intact between the top and the bottom... The rest
of it looked like it had been absorbed into the wetness that we left...

Conclusion: I burned up the mag strips in the "Fausto Sizzle"! lol ... It's not near as bad as #360, but might be my
second worst cell ever! lol

Quote from: tgraca on December 06, 2014, 04:59:35 PM
PS - Awesome Cells... the best I have seen... I came up with 8272 joules... for 3 cells, that would be 2757 per cell...
An AAA NiMh cell rated at 3000 aH and 1.2 V would give (based on the rating) 9,000,000 joules... please check my math too...
I get these for a little less than $0.60 delivered, so the only real advantage to crystal batteries is that we can build them with stuff
from home... in my humble opinion... and they are fun to play with! lol

The maths is incorrect. A AAA battery like you mentioned will have 3000 mA/H not 3000 A/H (milliAmp/hour, not Amp/hour). So in the end you have a total of around 13 thousand joules not 9 million joules.
see: http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2001/KhalidaNisimova.shtml (http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2001/KhalidaNisimova.shtml)
btw: I don't think those NiMh batteries give you 3000 mA/h at all. I think they give MAX 1800 mA/h.


So comparing the cell on my graphs (cell #149) and counting that they are not going to die so soon, that cell in the graph is really a gigantic winner.


Now, I did test those cells against 3 AAA batteries (all under the exact same watts/load) and in the end I had to recharge those 3 AAA 3 times and my cell was still running. So I got tired and stopped the experiment happy that my cell out ran all the commercial batteries hands down.


Fausto.

Quote from: plengo on December 08, 2014, 09:49:45 PM
The maths is incorrect. A AAA battery like you mentioned will have 3000 mA/H not 3000 A/H (milliAmp/hour, not Amp/hour). So in the end you have a total of around 13 thousand joules not 9 million joules.
see:
btw: I don't think those NiMh batteries give you 3000 mA/h at all. I think they give MAX 1800 mA/h. Fausto.

Mine are rated at 3000 mA/hours... thanks for the correction! That makes me feel a little better about my efforts....
Did you see my video about the crystal cell/JT generating over 40 volts? I am studying the Patrick Kelly documentation
(again) on how to use this to charge batteries... fun!

Quote from: tgraca on December 08, 2014, 12:53:05 PM
Crystal Batteries #'s 356-357 - created Dec. 1, 2014 (7 days old today)
356 - original reading under load 870 mV - white LED
- current reading 638 mV = 232 mV total loss
- average loss 33 mV per day
357 - original reading under load 930 mV - green LED
- current reading 675 mV = 255 mV total loss
- average loss 36 mV per day
These were the same build and same JT, but different color LED's, which although are rated the same, are slightly different.
There is still enough light for a nightlight, but when they get down to around 600 mV, I will add some water and reseal.

356 - was down to 623 mV today, so I injected 3 mL of water and sealed it again.
         An hour later, it is showing 691 mV (under load). It would be nice if the next maintenance would be in 7+ days.
357 - it is showing 660 mV (under load), so I left it alone. We'll see how long it last before it gets to near 600 mV.

Quote from: tgraca on December 08, 2014, 09:56:10 PM
Mine are rated at 3000 mA/hours... thanks for the correction! That makes me feel a little better about my efforts....
Did you see my video about the crystal cell/JT generating over 40 volts? I am studying the Patrick Kelly documentation
(again) on how to use this to charge batteries... fun!

Yes I saw it, it is impressive. What is that oscilloscope you have? I will try to build a JT like that. I ordered the inductors from China.


Fausto.

Quote from: plengo on December 09, 2014, 11:06:15 AM
Yes I saw it, it is impressive. What is that oscilloscope you have? I will try to build a JT like that. I ordered the inductors from China. - Fausto.

The oscilloscope is a DSO Nano V3 (version 3)... I think I got it for around $70 on eBay delivered earlier this year.
It works well, but I haven't figured out how to get a frequency reading... I have to use a calculator to translate uS into kHz.
I had never tested these JT's without a load before and was surprised at how they work without a load. This explains all
of the JT transformer and battery charging effects I have been seeing for the last year. It's a much better way to tune a JT
than the one I have been using... way better...

I am doing my final testing today on the inductor values. When I find what I like, I will start winding them with this 3200'
of 30 AWG that has been calling my name for the last 3 weeks! lol - I think a custom wound bifiler and transistor will end
up costing me less than $0.25 each, which is less than my old JT designs with caps and resistors. Too bad too... I just got
100 caps in yesterday - 100 uF's, 25V - nice and small!

I may experiment with the Tesla Switch idea using caps instead of batteries. That would be really interesting... I have seen
someone doing this as "electrets" but I don't think he was calling it a Tesla Switch... 

Status.


Cell 149 (the one in the graphs) is finally showing signs of decay of power. Since November 16 to today she lost about .001 volt under load with a few drops of Epson solution only. I have not added water since November 10.


The metals inside look just like before and no visible deterioration is present but I have not dissected the cell.


I assume the loss in power having to do with water evaporation since this cell is not sealed. The major reason I started to seal those cells in epoxy resin.


Under short she was showing around 2 mA. Under load on a Green 10 mm LED is showing 2.58v.


I think this cell is the most successful cell of mine to date. A flat graph with only a very small loss of power. I will let her run for longer and later add 1 drop of water to each of its 3 unit cells and graph it again. Very boring work.


Fausto.

Quote from: plengo on December 09, 2014, 11:39:29 AM
Status. Cell 149 (the one in the graphs) is finally showing signs of decay of power. Since November 16 to today she lost about .001 volt under load with a few drops of Epson solution only. I have not added water since November 10.
The metals inside look just like before and no visible deterioration is present but I have not dissected the cell.
I assume the loss in power having to do with water evaporation since this cell is not sealed. The major reason I started to seal those cells in epoxy resin. Under short she was showing around 2 mA. Under load on a Green 10 mm LED is showing 2.58v.
I think this cell is the most successful cell of mine to date. A flat graph with only a very small loss of power. I will let her run for longer and later add 1 drop of water to each of its 3 unit cells and graph it again. Very boring work.
Fausto.

Nice work. re: "Very boring work."
When you get your JT's in order, I hope you consider testing multiple single cells with various configurations. I know you
don't have enough computers to make those graphs for a bunch of cells, but you can just take a cue visually daily of each,
and start taking reading when they are looking low... the way I do it... I am planning on having 20 good cells running by
the end of this month... I can't imagine using 20 computers to manage this.... and taking visual cues and eventually taking
readings takes almost no time. It's not boring at all! ;) -- Plus... now I can roam throughout my home in the middle of
the night without turning to turn on lights... I used to bump into things rather than turn on a light... I have chickens out
side, and when they see the lights come on at 2am, they start crowing! lol

Quote from: tgraca on November 23, 2014, 04:18:08 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MubBsGGtxk

This may be the new winner. I made a graph for you. The major difference in the electrolyte is that I coated the mag strips
with some watered down silicone (latex) caulk and MnO2/Activated Carbon first, there is no hydrate #5, and except for
watering the coffee filter around the mag strips, the electrolyte ingrediants were pinched in dry.

717 mV under load after 18 days.

Quote from: tgraca on December 09, 2014, 11:19:18 AM
I have to use a calculator to translate uS into kHz.

I have built a number of online calculators for frequency, reactance, etc. and am thinking of building a logging system
for crystal cells that creates graphs like I have been posting automatically. Question...

It would take me about 6 hours to clean up the calculators for general use and another 20-25 hours to build a logging
system as described, which would require log in to a web app, but  NO software installation.

Do you think anyone would want to use a system like this?

Personally, I am getting to the point where I need to probably do this or screw a paper clip board log above each shelf
holding the crystal battery and JT circuit. Paper/wood clip boards would take almost no time to make and mount and
would probably be easier to use, but the application might be fun if we had 10+ others using the application.

The last thing I developed like this was for my workouts, but I did a market test for this app and nobody was interested...
I don't even use it anymore for logging my workouts... I just kind of know what's up and think week to week now... it's
all in my head at this point... The basic data is still available here if you want to take a look.

http://lifesgift.org/lg/ExerciseMuscles.cfm

This app has about 12 years of research and about 400 hours of development into the app. I still use this not-necessary-
to-log-in piece once in a while just to check things, like I replaced my plank exercise with another to affect just one
muscle group...

Anyway.... just curious.

Here are the results of my first set of tests... I am compiling another video now on my second set of tests for the new
simplified JT design with no caps or resistors....
http://youtu.be/sZy_SwDk514

Quote from: tgraca on December 09, 2014, 06:15:15 PM
Here are the results of my first set of tests... I am compiling another video now on my second set of tests for the new
simplified JT design with no caps or resistors....
http://youtu.be/sZy_SwDk514

Here are a few more tests without load so you can see how much voltage these JT circuits can generate without load...
http://youtu.be/RWvBIT7IbRw

Quote from: plengo on December 09, 2014, 11:39:29 AM
Status.


Cell 149 (the one in the graphs) is finally showing signs of decay of power. Since November 16 to today she lost about .001 volt under load with a few drops of Epson solution only. I have not added water since November 10.


The metals inside look just like before and no visible deterioration is present but I have not dissected the cell.


I assume the loss in power having to do with water evaporation since this cell is not sealed. The major reason I started to seal those cells in epoxy resin.


Under short she was showing around 2 mA. Under load on a Green 10 mm LED is showing 2.58v.


I think this cell is the most successful cell of mine to date. A flat graph with only a very small loss of power. I will let her run for longer and later add 1 drop of water to each of its 3 unit cells and graph it again. Very boring work.


Fausto.

I forgot to mention that this cell also goes up and down in its voltage on the graph, for example right now, she is back to when I started which is 2.81volts.


I also made a load test of a short using the meter which changes the cell substantially until it stabilizes again to the new load and back.


Fausto.

A few years back I noticed a pattern with those cells that may help you to know if you are on the right track or not.


I was convinced that the power coming out from those cells was not only galvanic.


To demonstrate that here it goes a simple test: Create 3 cells in the exact same way. Let them run for 3 different lengths of times while adding water at different rates/time. One let it run until it simply die without adding water/Epson. The second one let it run but keep adding water/Epson 2/3 more times in relation to the others. The third one let keep adding water/Epson 1/3 more times in relation to others. Do this until second and third cell FINALLY DIE.

Now that second and third cells are dead, start adding water/Epson to only the first one and observe and measure its output power in relation to time.

Example: Cell 1 no water/Epson until she dies. Cell 2 add water/Epson twice every week until she dies for good (it could take a month here). Cell 3 add water/Epson 3 times every week until she dies for good (it could take another month here).

Now that all are dead and Cell 2 and 3 will no longer give useful power even adding water/Epson, take Cell 1 add water/Epson until it dies again and repeat the process being adding water only AFTER she dies or becomes "dormant", UNTIL she finally dies like the rest and responds no more with more water EVER. Open the Cells and examine their corrosion level.

Now, you should see a clear pattern where the one that is watered most frequently is the first to die in total corrosion before the rest but it will not be the one giving the most power ration in relation to length of life. The one with the least frequently water added will be living MUCH LONGER useful life and power ration in relation to life length.


In other words, the one that is "fed" water/Epson only after "dormancy" state will be the winner.
In other words again, the one that is frequently "fed" the least with water until the "dormancy" state comes will be the winner.
In other words again, the one that is "fed" in accordance with ITS "dormancy life CYCLE" will be the winner.
In other words again, the one that is "fed" only when she NEEDS will win.
In other words again, the one that is in sync with its "nature" of growth will win. (This is super important).
In other words again, the one that lives in respect with the "seasons of the year/life" will be the winner.
In other words again, the one that is NOT FORCED will win.


Bedini said in one of his videos that "you cannot accelerate nature. You have to let the battery do its thing at her time".


To see this one will need to measure (empirical data) AND KNOW what is CORROSION indeed with ALSO EMPIRICAL DATA. In another thread I asked people to do a "BASELINE" but I was criticized by the argument that "we all know what corrosion is". Do they really? ???


Teo should be able to easily see when corrosion hits the road and KILLS the cell, so he should be able to determined a BASELINE to compare the cells to and SEE what I am talking about. This should be enough to "itch" your mind and corrode you from inside until you find the reason (pun intended).


Now the reasoning, or should I wait until you guys have demonstrated the empirical data  and convinced that indeed this pattern exists? Well, i guess I will wait first.


Here is the MOST IMPORTANT thing from now on, IF your 3 cells in the end gives the same power output ration in relation to time and frequency of adding water, YOU ARE ON THE WRONG TRACK WITH YOUR FORMULA AND BUILD PROCESS AND GEOMETRY.


The only problem with this experiment is that it takes TIME, patience and endurance. For those that want a quick build and results be ready for big failure unless your objectives are to have a galvanic cell. The benefit of me here is that I ALREADY passed that phase and spent the time doing that so YOU can save yourselves the trouble.


BUT, you will need to do this experiment at least ONCE to KNOW that. Only once, since you already did the galvanic cells and know more or less what to expect to call a cell "dead". In other words, that even adding water that cell will no longer work or it will be totally corroded. The rest I did and take for granted my words and save yourself years of testing. You will eventually even see cells that will be totally dead and still have plenty of electrodes left and make you go like "whattttt? ??? ?!!!!".


Now that you KNOW the life cycle of these cells, you will know if the "formula" is right IF the cells responds to that PATTERN. I say "formula" in quotes because this is only ONE of the 3 necessary things to get it right: The formula, the build process and the geometry. Any of those changed will dramatically change the results.


You may also be asking: Fausto what is the zapping for ?
Well the zapping is another Nature's trick in accelerating the process but in Nature's ways. Have you heard Bob Babcok saying that "Nature has its safe guards but it also can be 'tricked'" ?


Fausto.

Quote from: plengo on December 10, 2014, 12:47:16 PM
I was convinced that the power coming out from those cells was not only galvanic.

Now, you should see a clear pattern where the one that is watered most frequently is the first to die in total corrosion before the rest
but it will not be the one giving the most power ration in relation to length of life. The one with the least frequently water added will be
living MUCH LONGER useful life and power ration in relation to life length.

In other words, the one that receive the least amount of water/Epson will be the one giving the most amount of power AND life much,
much longer than the rest to the point that you will notice that EVEN ADDING the life length of the first 2 it will still win.

Fausto.

Before cell #344, I had made about 20 wood glue cells with 50/50 borax and sea salt. I am still testing this in the way you described.
I accidentally break off the single mag strip once in a while, which to means the cell is volunteering to be dissected, so I oblige. I don't
see any deterioration on the mag strips or copper, unless I accidentally put the salt/borax near the copper or mag. For most of these
cells, I put some tissue between the salt and glue, but for the others, there was some deterioration. More watering and use made those
deteriorate, but not the others. So, insulating the electrodes is key. This is the purpose of making a semiconductor on the electrodes,
but from my experience, you can do this without cooking...

Also, with constant use, they tend to give little power after a few days or a week, but if I let them sit for a day or a week, they come
back to full power. I am not sure if this is what you are looking for, but I have seen this in many many many of my other 300+ builds
too.

I think these are 2 separate issues - galvanic or not, these cells come back to life with a little rest. My goal is to retard the galvanic
process for at least 6 months with constant use. When I get this, a simple solution to giving them daily rest periods is to add a light
sensor circuit to turn them off for about half the day. This will make the cells last probably twice as long, so now we are talking at
least a year before any rebuild is necessary, but the circuit build is a pain.

I am still looking for a simple solution for a light sensing circuit. There are photo resistors that have an open resistance of less than
1 ohm, which would be what I need, but they are relatively expensive. The ones I have start at around 4k to 5k ohms... even with
tuning, they aren't sensitive enough to shut the circuit off with very low light, or even moderate light.

So, I think I have proved what you are saying about these cells coming back to life and I am on the right track since they all work
as you described, except I don't think the galvanic effect is is a separate issue.

Quote from: tgraca on December 10, 2014, 01:36:30 PMFor most of these
cells, I put some tissue between the salt and glue, but for the others, there was some deterioration. ...So, insulating the electrodes is key.

This has to do with the "room" for crystal growth. Putting paper, separators, isolators, none will work really. The two things are invisibly mixed, the reduction in corrosion but also in power and crystal space to growth. One has to envision a test to distinguish the two.

QuoteAlso, with constant use, they tend to give little power after a few days or a week, but if I let them sit for a day or a week, they come back to full power. I am not sure if this is what you are looking for, but I have seen this in many many many of my other 300+ builds too.

This IS what I talking about. I call it dormancy period or state. This is a proof that corrosion is not the only thing here. Use that as a guidance for the fine tuning of your "formula".


Fausto.

Quote from: plengo on December 10, 2014, 01:46:01 PM
This IS what I talking about. I call it dormancy period or state. This is a proof that corrosion is not the only thing here. Use that as a
guidance for the fine tuning of your "formula". Fausto.

I talked to Peter Linderman earlier this year and he gave me his opinion on this, with which I agree. I hadn't thought of it before, but these
cells are partially a thermo electric generator. To test this, I took four of my similar cells that were exhausted from constant use, put 2
exhausted cells in the fridge, and left 2 in room temperature. I took one from the fridge and one at room temperature and hooked up them
up to JT's. They both worked, but the one from the fridge wasn't near as bright and couldn't get it's act together until I finally left it
disconnected from a load for a day, then it came back to life. For the other two, I let the one from the fridge sit for a day and then hooked it
and the last one that had been sitting at room temp up to JT's... the fridge cell had more power than the one from the last test, but it
was no match for the one that had been sitting without load at room temperature for several days.

Bedini has a video of a carbon / mag strip battery - a LidMotor replication - he explains that it is not a galvanic cell, but rather a thermo
electric cell and showed a few degrees difference in temperature between the mag strip and the carbon rod... So, I think that's what's
going on here when there is no galvanic effect.

The MnO2 will give that effect, and possibly the activated carbon, but I get this with all most of my electrolyte mixes, and I am not sure
if this is coming from the crystals or the electrolyte or the electrodes or some combination of those 3 things. Interesting!

PS - LidMotor was calling it an air battery as I remember.

Quote from: tgraca on December 10, 2014, 02:03:11 PM
I talked to Peter Linderman earlier this year and he gave me his opinion on this, with which I agree. I hadn't thought of it before, but these
cells are partially a thermo electric generator. To test this, I took four of my similar cells that were exhausted from constant use, put 2
exhausted cells in the fridge, and left 2 in room temperature. I took one from the fridge and one at room temperature and hooked up them
up to JT's. They both worked, but the one from the fridge wasn't near as bright and couldn't get it's act together until I finally left it
disconnected from a load for a day, then it came back to life. For the other two, I let the one from the fridge sit for a day and then hooked it
and the last one that had been sitting at room temp up to JT's... the fridge cell had more power than the one from the last test, but it
was no match for the one that had been sitting without load at room temperature for several days.

Bedini has a video of a carbon / mag strip battery - a LidMotor replication - he explains that it is not a galvanic cell, but rather a thermo
electric cell and showed a few degrees difference in temperature between the mag strip and the carbon rod... So, I think that's what's
going on here when there is no galvanic effect.

The MnO2 will give that effect, and possibly the activated carbon, but I get this with all most of my electrolyte mixes, and I am not sure
if this is coming from the crystals or the electrolyte or the electrodes or some combination of those 3 things. Interesting!

PS - LidMotor was calling it an air battery as I remember.

It is interesting. Create a new test to prove their theory. Create a cell with LOTS of paper around the Magnesium. All the cells with exact same formula but change ONLY the geometry. Report what you will find.


I bet the one with most "space" between the electrodes and lots of "crystals" will work better.


Thermo!!! Hmmm, why my videos where called "Thermo Static cell" ??


Fausto.

Quote from: plengo on December 10, 2014, 02:36:40 PM
It is interesting. Create a new test to prove their theory. Create a cell with LOTS of paper around the Magnesium.
All the cells with exact same formula but change ONLY the geometry. Report what you will find.
I bet the one with most "space" between the electrodes and lots of "crystals" will work better.
Thermo!!! Hmmm, why my videos where called "Thermo Static cell" ??
Fausto.

Actually... cell #359 has a ton of coffee filter in it and it is very weak. I'll figure a more controlled test... not sure if I will get to it today...
I am working on an easy way to log AND review the performance of multiple cells IN DETAIL and don't want to start more until I have
that done. I guess there is no interest in the application... I have to work it out with paper first anyway... I think a tac and small 2" x 4"
clip board next to each shelf is the way to go at this point... notepad isn't working for me anymore...

I thought you called it Thermo Static because you were cooking it with electricity... I don't think "static" describes thermo "electric",
but I could be wrong...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_generator
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/thermostatic

It looks like this cell may last 3 weeks without maintenance... Winner?
925 mV after 14 days under load...

Quote from: tgraca on December 10, 2014, 02:55:31 PM
Actually... cell #359 has a ton of coffee filter in it and it is very weak. I'll figure a more controlled test... not sure if I will get to it today...
I am working on an easy way to log AND review the performance of multiple cells IN DETAIL and don't want to start more until I have
that done. I guess there is no interest in the application... I have to work it out with paper first anyway... I think a tac and small 2" x 4"
clip board next to each shelf is the way to go at this point... notepad isn't working for me anymore...

I thought you called it Thermo Static because you were cooking it with electricity... I don't think "static" describes thermo "electric",
but I could be wrong...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_generator (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_generator)
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/thermostatic (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/thermostatic)

What I meant about more power is the TOTAL power output over time. Not the initial "cranking amps" capacity.


The thermo static name on my videos has to do with the "thermo reactor" effect (which in one of the videos privately shared here I say it). The electrodes do present one to two degrees Celsius difference indeed. The static comes from the "cooking"/zapping/FC62 process which accelerates the process of crystallization.


I know you don't like the zapping but I will make a video showing how small a cell can be and how much more power it comes out for the same equivalent amount of matter used. The only explanation will be the zapping or as I call it, FC62 (Formula/Composition 62 volts).


If you want to test even further this "crystallization" theory of mine, add more than one crystal to the build process, preferably crystals that have very different growth speeds and water absorption.


The penta hydro meta silicates , that you have tested in a few cells, plays the function of HOLDING water FOR THE CRYSTAL not necessary for the chemical reactions. But to get it to a usable form, one must play correctly and understanding the functionality of each element and their resulting effects.


Fausto.

Quote from: tgraca on December 09, 2014, 01:01:40 PM
This may be the new winner. I made a graph for you. The major difference in the electrolyte is that I coated the mag strips
with some watered down silicone (latex) caulk and MnO2/Activated Carbon first, there is no hydrate #5, and except for
watering the coffee filter around the mag strips, the electrolyte ingredients were pinched in dry.

717 mV under load after 18 days.

Correction... the graph showed 16 days, but I typed 18 days by mistake... I am working on my logging system.
Today (day 17 after build) it showed 712 mV, so I injected 3 mL of water and it increased to over 1020+ mV quickly.
Sealed it and put it back the shelf.

The JT circuits couldn't handle the power of the crystal cells, so I had to add resistors while the cells settle down...
http://youtu.be/coQ8OYUuqBY

Here is a graph 4 cells I made F149 mix i could only zap with 12volt battery because it kept tripping my 30v power supply.
This test is open air meaning not sealed like Fausto's, I'm doing that next.
The load is a white LED, I'll do the same one the sealed one . Next tests will be 100 ohm resister afterwards.
Also have a kit on order from my China friends to measure inductance.[size=78%]http://m.ebay.com/itm/251609065467?txnId=1566142715015 (http://m.ebay.com/itm/251609065467?txnId=1566142715015)[/size]
This is called "Battery 1 F149"Im going to let rest for a week til I activate with the epsom.
@Tgraca Have #30 wire will wind ;) . how to you like you pocket Oscilliscope? I was looking at the DSO 201....

Quote from: Heavens Pavement on December 12, 2014, 03:23:03 AM
@Tgraca Have #30 wire will wind ;) . how to you like you pocket Oscilliscope? I was looking at the DSO 201....

It works great. It's light and easy to move around from work area to work area... and its cheap, so if I fry it, it's not as big of a deal
as frying one of those big machines. I hope you enjoy that kit... I don't have the patience for a kit, plus the blue one is only a few
bucks more and will probably hold up better to dropping it... my meters take a lot of abuse. I think everything I have is "technically"
disposable for that very reason. ;)

Quote from: tgraca on December 11, 2014, 06:41:15 PM
The JT circuits couldn't handle the power of the crystal cells, so I had to add resistors while the cells settle down...
http://youtu.be/coQ8OYUuqBY

10 mH for the inductors is too much for this circuit and requires a resistor... I tested the various inductance needed for this circuit
and this type of battery build, and it seems the best light I get is from 1/2 to 1.5 mH for the inductors. I'll wind a few today to
determine the number of winds needed with 1/4" bolts as a core. I might make a video showing some of my experimental biFilar
coils built around 1/4" bolts to demonstrate how to get more inductance out of fewer windings... thus making easier biFilar builds.

Also, since these 4 circuits won't work with these 2" crystal cells, I may make a 1" crystal cell to see how that works with these 10mH
JT circuits. The key considerations I am working out is cost of JT versus cost of crystal cell. The 470 uH to 10 mH inductors cost
the same on eBay, but when winding them, fewer winds is better.... and obviously, a 1" crystal cell with this type of build will cost
about half as much as a 2" crystal cell.

Quote from: Heavens Pavement on December 12, 2014, 03:23:03 AM
Here is a graph 4 cells I made F149 mix i could only zap with 12volt battery because it kept tripping my 30v power supply.
This test is open air meaning not sealed like Fausto's, I'm doing that next.
The load is a white LED, I'll do the same one the sealed one . Next tests will be 100 ohm resister afterwards.
Also have a kit on order from my China friends to measure inductance.[size=78%]http://m.ebay.com/itm/251609065467?txnId=1566142715015 (http://m.ebay.com/itm/251609065467?txnId=1566142715015)[/size]
This is called "Battery 1 F149"Im going to let rest for a week til I activate with the epsom.
@Tgraca Have #30 wire will wind ;) . how to you like you pocket Oscilliscope? I was looking at the DSO 201....

Isn't interesting how this graph is totally different than the ones I have been showing?


Good work.

Fausto.

I wound a few transformers this morning... here's some fun information on what I have learned over the last year...
http://youtu.be/_36V25kDTEU

I am always looking for a cheap and effective material to mold my own cores for transformers, but this stuff is relatively expensive....
If you decide to experiment with it, please share your experiences!
http://www.tmart.com/HK-ZOYO-Magnetic-Night-Glowing-Kids-Thinking-Putty-Educational-Clay-Plasticine-Toy-Pressure-Reduction-Toy-Silver_p243320.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=news&utm_content=1211op&utm_campaign=Dec11sy

It finally died all at once this morning... It lasted over 2 weeks, which I think is good.
1 week is ok, 2 weeks is good, 3 weeks is great, 4 weeks is fantastic! The cell came right back to life with a little water, which is
what I am going for... if it can last at least 6 months with maintenance periods of 7+ days, that is "fantastic"!

Crystal Battery #354 - Built Nov. 26
Nov 27 - 1.21 volts
Nov 28 - 1080 mV
Nov 29 - 1083 mV
Dec 01 - 1065 mV
Dec 3 -  1056 mV (7 days)
Dec 10 - 925 mV (14 days)
Dec 13 - 413 mV - added 3 mL of water - day 17
- 1203 mV (day 0)

This cell is doing really well. It's the same build as #354, but has a white light instead of a green light - both LED's have the same specs...
but I think the green LED's are brighter and may use draw a little more power... or they are more efficient per lumen.... no maintenance
needed yet....

Crystal Battery #353 - Built Nov 25
Nov 26 - 1066 mV
Nov 27 - 1105 mV
Nov 28 - 1054 mV
Nov 29 - 1084 mV
Dec 1 - 1050 mV
Dec 13, 972 mV - day 18

Had to maintain #357 today after 12 days... #356 had to maintain after just 8 days... I rate these as just "OK" builds....

Crystal Batteries #'s 356-357 - Built Dec. 1, 2014
Dec 08, 2014 (Day 7)
356 - original reading under load 870 mV - white LED
- 638 mV
- average loss 33 mV per day
357 - original reading under load 930 mV - green LED
- 675 mV
- average loss 36 mV per day
Dec 09
356 - was down to 623 mV - added 3 mL of water.  (day 8 )
- 691 mV (under load).
357 - 660 mV
Dec 11
356 - 679 mV
357 - 628 mV
Dec 12
356 - 673 mV
357 - 624 mV
Dec 13
356 - 664 mV
357 - 613 mV
- 871 mV - added 3 mL of water.  (day 12)

@ Fausto after formation do you "seal" your cells, let them run and die, open up to water with epsom solution.
Ya i noticed my graph is not like yours, nor are they like my old ones(which i think is good).

Quote from: Heavens Pavement on December 13, 2014, 09:21:07 PM
@ Fausto after formation do you "seal" your cells, let them run and die, open up to water with epsom solution.
Ya i noticed my graph is not like yours, nor are they like my old ones(which i think is good).

So, formation is the process of letting the cell die until almost fully dried. Then is when you add the Epson solution (a few drops only, may one or two) and voila, she will be alive and better now.

Sealing the cell is another process that is very complicated to replicate. I will not go through that process here yet.


Fausto.

Using a virus around Manganese Oxide nano tubes to grow batteries.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUVrUIV4xu4

Quote from: tgraca on December 08, 2014, 05:38:07 PM
This turned out to be a weak cell. I think it is the borax crystal on the mag strip. I will recycle #'s 344-345 and use a hydrogen
peroxide solution to clean the mag strips from them to see if this makes a difference. I did learn that standard 3%  hydrogen
peroxide does a great job cleaning off copper and magnesium. There was approx. 44" of mag strip in this build. I tuned a new,
really easy to build JT circuit for this cell and it is running really well. No more resistors or caps! Video coming soon! 42+ volts
from this weak cell with the new JT circuit! Stay tuned!

Video: http://youtu.be/A2oIyWrKm8U

PS - I was worried I was going to fry the 3904 transistor, which is rated at 40 volts, but I left it hooked up for an hour before I
connected it to the crystal cell and it seems to be fine after the final build! Note that I gave this cell a 30-second zap too...

It's interesting how this cell increased power with maintenance. I cover my current maintenance method here too.

http://youtu.be/1mCc0eXI2Ss

Crystal Battery #361 - Recycled Mag Strips from #351 - The Build
Dec 7 - 2014 - 1M JT (Built)
Dec 9 - 577 mV over 7 mA under load (day 2)
Dec 10 - 564 mV 3.83 mA under load (day 3)
Dec 15 - 478 mV under load (day 8)
- 668 mV under load after adding 3 mL of water

Ok new cell , "Crystal Battery 2 F149".
Construction.
2.5 inch paper towel with F149.
2 Strips on Magnesium Ribbon together
Bare Copper wire
Formation..
Try as I might my 30V power supply will not play any more in the Formation process..it just trips :'(
So..19V DC for about 20 Seconds(quits Steaming)
4 Cells total in series.
load is a 5mm white LED.
Cells individually wrapped in plastic.
Ill this run til she dies and rest for a week in my dry house 8)


First chart is overall at formation assembly til screen cap.(the green line is where i bumped the clips :-[
Next chart is a close up towards end of chart.

Status 149:[/font]


Pictures in chronological sequence.

1 - Another 400 k samples

2 - Another reset graph to start another 400k samples. At around 90k I did a quick testing with cell shorted to measure current. Observe how she stabilized at the bottom and once load removed how fast it recovered.

3 - Finally cell is dying. Observe that at sample 250 k I added a few drops of Epson solution to see if she would respond and to my surprise there was NO RESPONSE (just like when I used her last year and let it die). A very steady decay. At sample 340 k I disconnected the LED and another surprise, she decayed even faster WITHOUT a load. Now the remaining decay is exponential just like ALL other cells I have seen (like a capacitor discharge).

4 - Cell BEFORE I started this whole series of graphs. Observe the crystal (white stuff) on top of the cell. Grayish is corrosion and whitish is crystal.

5 - Cell After ADDING Epson solution when sample 250 k was reached (pic 3). It simply did not work adding Epson. It only helped to create more crystal without any extra power. Usually adding solutions at later times in cells they have a sharp response and return to where it was. This cell has no response.

6 - Example of another sister cell cast in resin BEFORE this whole graph series was started.


My Observations: Cell was a winner in performance compared to ANY other cell I have made. She was literally flat response until finally sudden death. She died really fast in the end which is not normal. Usually I have an exponential decay from day one, just like other pictures of members here in this forum.


Once I added more Epson salt I was expecting a "sharp bump" on the graph and later resume to where it was, BUT, that did not happened which really puzzled me.


Only after adding more Epson salts I had more crystal (white stuff) appearing and no power. Ultra strange again. Usually with crystal growth comes more power.


Cell is unresponsive to anything now. Adding water or any other solutions will only accelerate corrosion a die for sure. I will let her dry totally and resurrect her again later and put on graph by "activating" with Epson solution.


There is something very peculiar about FC62 (zapping) that allows the cell, after dormancy, to respond like that. I need lots more of experimentation.


Once again learned that once this kind of cell die, DO NOT ADD ANYTHING to it. Let it DRY completely and only then activate with Epson solution.


I "think" the sudden decays has to do with total water evaporation and starving the cell. Now she will need to dry and create a SOLID crystal structure that will allow her to run again, may be, another 1600 k samples. Will see if my theory is correct.


After dying she run even faster death WITHOUT A LOAD. Very, very, very strange.


I am crying again since she is not living for ever.  :'(
Fausto.

Quote from: Heavens Pavement on December 16, 2014, 02:47:54 AM
Ok new cell , "Crystal Battery 2 F149".
Construction.
2.5 inch paper towel with F149.
2 Strips on Magnesium Ribbon together
Bare Copper wire
Formation..
Try as I might my 30V power supply will not play any more in the Formation process..it just trips :'(
So..19V DC for about 20 Seconds(quits Steaming)
4 Cells total in series.
load is a 5mm white LED.
Cells individually wrapped in plastic.
Ill this run til she dies and rest for a week in my dry house 8)


First chart is overall at formation assembly til screen cap.(the green line is where i bumped the clips :-[
Next chart is a close up towards end of chart.

Interesting how your graph has changed dramatically. What do you think is the cause?


Are you using a JT? Usually with JTs it creates those saw tooth wave.


Let it really die WITH the load and take a picture of the cell with as much detail as you can. If you could (without destroying) open a cell also and take pictures and share here it will be great.


Fausto.

Crystal Cell 1 and 2 did not use a blocking oscillator
Crystall cell 1 was open, meaning cells not wrapped in plastic.
Crystal Cell 2 is wrapped in bubble wrap(insert veggie tales bubble wrap son here lol)
I think i will make another set..Crystal Cell 3 made same as 2 and if it behaves the same ill dissect that one.
Got a USB Micro scope to play with ;)

This is the kind of response I want people to replicate when creating a cell using F149 and FC62. Notice the stability of the cell under load.


Also look at the size of the cell (second picture). This cell is composed of 5 little cells. Each little cell is one strip of Magnesium ribbon of 3" in length, 3" length copper wire (probably 26 ga, those used for soldering electronic components) and 1/8" thick cupboard paper cut in 3".

The third picture is the diagram structure of the cell.


Note that when applying FC62 positive of power supply goes to positive of the cell (copper).


Fausto. 

I still have the other 3 builds - #'s 362-364 running on a bad JT design and they are fairly dim...
For #365, I am testing it with a 470 uH JT circuit like the one I used with crystal cell #359
- added 2 mL water today
- it gained over a volt of power under load - from 571 mV to 683 mV - low to descent light

I have been planning some new builds for a week now with just 1" of 1/2" D. copper pipe. My goals are:
- no use of hypodermic needle for maintenance...
- less copper pipe and mag strips
- no caulk for sealing the cell

I will publish a new technique on the builds soon and put the cells into long term testing...
My current issue is that I am out of 1 mH inductors, which I think are the best for this type of JT circuit,
so I will be winding them until then, which takes time to wind and longer to assemble into the JT circuit...
I have 500 1 mH inductors coming in next month. I have a full stock of 3904 transistors in stock too, so...

If anyone wants some of these to test their SINGLE crystal batteries, let me know through a private message
and I will send you some when the 1 mH inductors come in... I would like to see you guys test individual
cells instead of 2 or more in series since your builds will NOT be exactly the same per crystal cell.

For example: If you make a bunch of crystal cells, which will definitely be different from each other, and then
connect them in series to a single LED, there is much less to be learned than if you connect each one up to a
single JT circuit and monitor all your cells separately... I would be willing to invest the postage and cost of the
components if you are willing to share how your cells perform. Thanks!

Talk about a "dormant" stage... This cell has experienced many...
http://youtu.be/xO8iG_6_Va4

Interesting his AA battery build:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ts34IWziqo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ts34IWziqo&feature=em-uploademail)


Fausto.

Interesting how this cell lasted so long before the first maintenance cycle and then came back stronger...
The Build Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPi8fkn1qFA

Crystal Battery #353 - Built Nov 25 (white LED - dry build w/Borax)
Nov 26 - 1066 mV - day 1
Nov 27 - 1105 mV - day 2
Nov 28 - 1054 mV - day 3
Nov 29 - 1084 mV - day 4
Dec 1 - 1050 mV - day 6
Dec 13 - 972 mV - day 18
Dec 14 - 903 mV - day 19 - disconnected JTC to create a better connection, then forgot to reconnect it...
Dec 18 - 989 mV - day 23 - reconnected JTC
Dec 21 - 446 mV - day 26 - no light
- 961 w/no load, 0.8 mA on short, and climbing...
- 1.01 mA after a few minutes and climbing
- reached 1.09 mA after a few more minutes and began dropping
- 890 mV w/no load after short and climbing
- added 3 mL of water, quickly rised to 1600+ mV w/no load
- shorted, it started at 19 mA and quickly pegged the meter to over 200 mA
- set to the mV reading and it was showing over 1700 mV and climbing
- reconnected JT circuit, 1200+ mV under load, climbing
- after a few minutes, it is 1270 mV and still climbing under load
- JT amp draw is 5.9 mA... nice and bright!

Quote from: tgraca on December 21, 2014, 11:49:02 AM
Interesting how this cell lasted so long before the first maintenance cycle and then came back stronger...
The Build Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPi8fkn1qFA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPi8fkn1qFA)

Crystal Battery #353 - Built Nov 25 (white LED - dry build w/Borax)
Nov 26 - 1066 mV - day 1
Nov 27 - 1105 mV - day 2
Nov 28 - 1054 mV - day 3
Nov 29 - 1084 mV - day 4
Dec 1 - 1050 mV - day 6
Dec 13 - 972 mV - day 18
Dec 14 - 903 mV - day 19 - disconnected JTC to create a better connection, then forgot to reconnect it...
Dec 18 - 989 mV - day 23 - reconnected JTC
Dec 21 - 446 mV - day 26 - no light
- 961 w/no load, 0.8 mA on short, and climbing...
- 1.01 mA after a few minutes and climbing
- reached 1.09 mA after a few more minutes and began dropping
- 890 mV w/no load after short and climbing
- added 3 mL of water, quickly rised to 1600+ mV w/no load
- shorted, it started at 19 mA and quickly pegged the meter to over 200 mA
- set to the mV reading and it was showing over 1700 mV and climbing
- reconnected JT circuit, 1200+ mV under load, climbing
- after a few minutes, it is 1270 mV and still climbing under load
- JT amp draw is 5.9 mA... nice and bright!

That's very impressive.


Fausto.

Quote from: plengo on December 21, 2014, 01:21:13 PM
That's very impressive. Fausto.

I just gave it another test since I know the water is settling. It's bouncing around 1080 mV and 5.3 mA under load.
To give you an idea of how this same circuit performs with standard batteries, I hooked it up to brand spanking new Energizer AA
- 1608 mV and 9.5 mA under load.
Then I hooked it up to a AA 1.2 V Ni-MH battery... it's about 6 months old, but has never been used... I don't think it is at full power...
- 1160 mV and 4.7 mA under load.
I think this is a great standard for testing the real power of these cells, which we could ask experimenters to do.
It gives a much truer baseline on the power of these cells than anything I've seen other experimenters do.

Publish that JT in detail so I can build one, please.


Fausto.

Quote from: plengo on December 21, 2014, 04:03:36 PM
Publish that JT in detail so I can build one, please. Fausto.

It's the one in the care package I sent you, minus the 3F cap...
http://offthegridsolar.net/Solar/REC_images/JT2c.png
Just pull the 3F cap, and you have it already built!

Quote from: tgraca on December 21, 2014, 04:22:04 PM
It's the one in the care package I sent you, minus the 3F cap...
http://offthegridsolar.net/Solar/REC_images/JT2c.png (http://offthegridsolar.net/Solar/REC_images/JT2c.png)
Just pull the 3F cap, and you have it already built!

Oh great, THANK YOU.


Fausto.

Fresh:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGT48R1_P8Y&feature=youtu.be


Fausto.

Here's a little nostalgia before Christmas!
This cell has sat for well over 6 months with no water and still comes back to life.
http://youtu.be/FtlEO1hDk-g

Quote from: tgraca on December 22, 2014, 01:24:57 PM
Here's a little nostalgia before Christmas!
This cell has sat for well over 6 months with no water and still comes back to life.
http://youtu.be/FtlEO1hDk-g (http://youtu.be/FtlEO1hDk-g)

The first number on the meter (021) was the voltage of the cell WITH load or without load?


Fausto.

Quote from: plengo on December 22, 2014, 01:31:46 PM
The first number on the meter (021) was the voltage of the cell WITH load or without load? Fausto.

That's no load. I was surprised to see anything but zeros....

Quote from: plengo on December 22, 2014, 12:59:45 PM
Fresh:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGT48R1_P8Y&feature=youtu.be - Fausto.

So... it looks like he likes Mn2O3... it's dangerous for us home experimenters... I like the MnO2 we are using... it's not dangerous and
from what I have read has been used to color skin - pigment...

Marcus seemed a little nervous there, but it is so wonderful to see him out and about and I love that he is moving forward and getting
at least some attention! I am a big fan of his!

More nostalgia.. these OLD crystal cell's aren't strong, but they show how they can sit around for a long time unused and still come back to life.
http://youtu.be/2ijbcdjLWg0

This old crystal battery came back to life with a surprising 1.9+ volts!
http://youtu.be/pAxtsJjAqQ4

Just clearing out my inventory of old crystal battery experiments... trashing some... putting a few back on the shelf...
This is an interesting 21 cell IBPointless2 build I used to test variations in the builds while trying to make them all the same...

Lessons learned...
#1 - I can't build these things exactly the same... it would take multi-million dollar operation to get something in place like that...
#2 - I CAN work with what I build. A JT circuit and one crystal battery cell works fine for the variations.
#3 - These IBPointless2 cells NEED to be watered to work... I don't care what IBP says! lol
- I think the video speaks volumes on this last lesson learned...

http://youtu.be/LCJtTmcm64k

The light died after about 10 minutes and was completely dead after 15 minutes... no power with these little bits of electrodes...

I've been playing with this for several days now, but it looks like the resistance in these little inductors is the key to keeping things simple.
I like the 1 mH the best, so I have a bunch coming soon! 10 mH don't work with regular AA and AAA batteries... too much power...
Less than 1 mH starts having issues with the brightness of the single LED's I use in the circuit. Let me know if you learn anything on this,
but for the moment, I am done with this and waiting for my inductors....

http://youtu.be/tH4uaErdBHk

I started work yesterday designing a AA and AAA battery charger using the new simplified joule thief with a low powered crystal battery.
I will probably do this in many parts and end up with a solar power option... I chose this project while I am waiting on my 1 mH inductors.
http://youtu.be/64gQubKk7x4

Quote from: tgraca on December 24, 2014, 03:42:26 PM
I started work yesterday designing a AA and AAA battery charger using the new simplified joule thief with a low powered crystal battery.
I will probably do this in many parts and end up with a solar power option... I chose this project while I am waiting on my 1 mH inductors.
http://youtu.be/64gQubKk7x4

Here's part 2... http://youtu.be/-w9BR14vm-c
The cap charge is at 1382 after another hour...

Here's an update...it works, but not well enough... charging capacitor and first maintenance cycle for this little crystal cell #363.
http://youtu.be/QktI4Vp_2W4

Crystal Batteries #'s 362-365 Builds w/JT Circuits December 11, 2014
Dec 24 #363 - first maintenance cycle - Day 13
- drilled hole, inserted 2 pinches of epsom, added water/straw/wick/glue/water

Quote from: tgraca on December 25, 2014, 07:58:12 PM
Here's an update...it works, but not well enough... charging capacitor and first maintenance cycle for this little crystal cell #363.
http://youtu.be/QktI4Vp_2W4

Crystal Batteries #'s 362-365 Builds w/JT Circuits December 11, 2014
Dec 24 #363 - first maintenance cycle - Day 13
- drilled hole, inserted 2 pinches of epsom, added water/straw/wick/glue/water

Here's another update. Not shown here, it is about 26 hours after the first maintenance cycle of this battery and the charge is showing
1193. We'll see how high it can get....

http://youtu.be/tO3K396ZntE

Quote from: tgraca on December 25, 2014, 09:13:03 PM
Here's another update. Not shown here, it is about 26 hours after the first maintenance cycle of this battery and the charge is showing
1193. We'll see how high it can get....

http://youtu.be/tO3K396ZntE

It's currently fully charged and showing 1227 mV. I'll see if I can set up a much faster charging system.

http://youtu.be/Q6zltvpgpwo

I am still waiting on some inductors for my next generation of crystal cells, so I am revisiting Jes Ascanius' Version of
Nikola Tesla's Aerial System. I thought a short video on how I use an LC meter to test components before the circuit
build might be helpful to some.

http://youtu.be/eNBr8a8i69o

Quote from: tgraca on December 26, 2014, 09:53:54 AM
I am still waiting on some inductors for my next generation of crystal cells, so I am revisiting
Jes Ascanius' Version of Nikola Tesla's Aerial System. I thought a short video on how I use an
LC meter to test components before the circuit build might be helpful to some.
http://youtu.be/eNBr8a8i69o

I got my inductors and LED's yesterday and will try some more cells. In the mean time, I am trying to
resolve my maintenance system. This is a video that covers my 3 generations of systems. I am currently
thinking that a large diameter syringe would be the best, but am having trouble locating them. Eye
droppers, etc. have the same problem I have documented here with my 3rd generation system. Injecting
and sealing water seems to be the best system. I have seen magnetman2010 and others use a wick
system with a bowl of water, but that requires additional components, more space, and can be messy as
stuff grows in standing water, and then there is the quick dry out issue. Any suggestion is appreciated.

http://youtu.be/2Q77s_-OkZE

Also, a little more nostalgia with my first crystal battery EVER - #1!

This seems to be my best running cell so far... 17 days before first maintenance.. it's been running fine for 20 more days.... still running strong.
Crystal Battery #354 - Built Nov. 26
Nov 27 - 1.21 volts
Nov 28 - 1080 mV
Nov 29 - 1083 mV
Dec 01 - 1065 mV
Dec 3 -  1056 mV (7 days)
Dec 10 - 925 mV (14 days)
Dec 13 - 413 mV - added 3 mL of water - day 17
- 1203 mV (day 0)
Jan 2  - 855 mC (day 20)

My second best cell - 17 days before first maintenance cycle... still running another 23 days after that.
Crystal Battery #352 - Nov. 23, 2014
Nov. 23
Nov 26 - 1081 mV under load
Nov 28 - 1057 mV under load
Dec 1 - 1014 mV under load
Dec 9 717 mV under load after 18 days.
Dec 10 712 mV added 3 mL water (day 17)
- 1021 mV (day 0)
Jan 2 - 683 mV under load (day 23)

Almost forgot about this one... ran 26 days before first maintenance cycle and still running strong 12 days after that. Maybe this one is the
best. 352-354 were similar builds and are running on the same JT circuit design.

Crystal Battery #353 - Built Nov 25 (white LED - dry build w/Borax)
Nov 26 - 1066 mV - day 1
Nov 27 - 1105 mV - day 2
Nov 28 - 1054 mV - day 3
Nov 29 - 1084 mV - day 4
Dec 1 - 1050 mV - day 6
Dec 13 - 972 mV - day 18
Dec 14 - 903 mV - day 19 - disconnected JTC to create a better connection, then forgot to reconnect it...
Dec 18 - 989 mV - day 23 - reconnected JTC
Dec 21 - 446 mV - day 26 - no light (day 0 - maintained)
- 961 w/no load, 0.8 mA on short, and climbing...
- 1.01 mA after a few minutes and climbing
- reached 1.09 mA after a few more minutes and began dropping
- 890 mV w/no load after short and climbing
- added 3 mL of water, quickly rised to 1600+ mV w/no load
- shorted, it started at 19 mA and quickly pegged the meter to over 200 mA
- set to the mV reading and it was showing over 1700 mV and climbing
- reconnected JT circuit, 1200+ mV under load, climbing
- after a few minutes, it is 1280 mV and still climbing under load
- after an hour 1080 mV and 5.3 mA under load
Jan 2 - 987 mV - day 12

I built a bunch of these cells with 2" pipe and they lasted less than half as long between maintenance cycles.
I built a bunch of these cells with 1" pipe and they had even more frequent maintenance cycles.
So... with my goal of fewer maintenance cycles, it looks like bigger is better.

Also, I have tried a number of ways to maintain these crystal batteries besides a syringe, but so far the syringe is the best method.
The problem with leaving them open to air in any way is that the maintenance cycles go to a matter of days, and some of these
methods involved watering around the mag strips, which made them deteriorate and fall off.

I am waiting for some single AA battery holders to build the final version of this and do a video, but here's the schematic.

Quote from: tgraca on January 02, 2015, 02:38:24 PM
I am waiting for some single AA battery holders to build the final version of this and do a video, but here's the schematic.

Nice circuit.  Just use magnetic battery holders that you can easily build.  These work better and, they are universal and will stick to any size battery...AAA, AA, C, or D.  I have a video that shows how to make them.  It is cheaper than buying a limiting battery holder.  I get the feeling that you and I are alike in that money is tight for experimenting and this is a good savings.

I have never made a crystal cell but your work has me very interested in this device.  I followed Hutchison's work on this a while back.

Bill

PS  I invented these about 7 years ago and Lidmotor, in one of his videos, credited me with coming up with these universal connectors.
Keep up your good work.

Quote from: Pirate88179 on January 03, 2015, 01:30:48 AM

Nice circuit.  Just use magnetic battery holders that you can easily build.  These work better and, they are universal and will stick to any size battery...AAA, AA, C, or D.  I have a video that shows how to make them.  It is cheaper than buying a limiting battery holder.  I get the feeling that you and I are alike in that money is tight for experimenting and this is a good savings.

I have never made a crystal cell but your work has me very interested in this device.  I followed Hutchison's work on this a while back.

Bill

PS  I invented these about 7 years ago and Lidmotor, in one of his videos, credited me with coming up with these universal connectors.
Keep up your good work.

re: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d31iEWBMh3M
Great video! I have done something similar, but it's kind of clunky at best in that the battery isn't stationed in one place.
The battery holders for AA's and AAA's are really cheap now. I have a full collection except for the singles, which I found for
$1.82 USD for 10 delivered, which is in my budget.. I don't know how they do that. It would cost me over $2+ just for postage
to mail something like that to someone in the US.

I started work yesterday on another version of that circuit to charge my lead alum batteries (about 9V) from a 12V battery bank.
I have built many SS SSG's, but I think a JT circuit would work just as well. I believe all that is needed for good battery charger
is pulsed DC. I have been working in the realm of 1/4 watt resistors for too long and bit the bullet yesterday to order some
2, 5, and 25 watt resistors. No more breaking out the calculator to run a bunch of 1/4 watt resistors in parallel! lol

Yeah... money is really tight, but it seems I can come up with a little here and there to get a few things. I am really struggling on
finding a reasonably priced source for magnesium and carbon. For example: magnesium sells on the futures market for a little over
$1 per pound, but the best price I can find is for magnesium rods, which equates to $28/pound. I don't get it, and at that price, I
can't get it. It would be really nice to have a bunch of 1oz bars of magnesium to play with, but I am guessing it would cost about
$10k+ to take delivery on the $1/pound magnesium on the futures market. That's the plan... don't hold your breath!

PS - today I am making a heat sink from an aluminum sheet I have here for my 2n3055 for this project.
I imagine it will be really ugly like my others... any suggestions?

Quote from: tgraca on January 03, 2015, 05:23:26 AM
PS - today I am making a heat sink from an aluminum sheet I have here for my 2n3055 for this project.
I imagine it will be really ugly like my others... any suggestions?

Hey... here's an idea I found for copper heat sinks for transistors... I hope my circuit will look that good! lol

Quote from: tgraca on January 03, 2015, 05:52:28 AM
Hey... here's an idea I found for copper heat sinks for transistors... I hope my circuit will look that good! lol

Nice.  But unless they are pre 1982, they are copper plated zinc.  Hence the term "Zincolns" used by metal detectorists.

I make my heat sinks out of used adult beverage/soda cans.  I can cut them to shape, fold them over for added thickness, and then bend them into whatever I need.  This works really well with the TIP 3055s I used on the Jeanna circuit. (See photo)

Of course, the zinc pennies might also have high thermal conductivity...I have not checked that.

Just my 2 cents....get it?  Ha ha.

Bill

Quote from: Pirate88179 on January 03, 2015, 05:58:49 AM
Nice.  But unless they are pre 1982, they are copper plated zinc.  Hence the term "Zincolns" used by metal detectorists.

I make my heat sinks out of used adult beverage/soda cans.  I can cut them to shape, fold them over for added thickness, and then bend them into whatever I need.  This works really well with the TIP 3055s I used on the Jeanna circuit. (See photo)

Of course, the zinc pennies might also have high thermal conductivity...I have not checked that.

Just my 2 cents....get it?  Ha ha.

Bill

Damn that's ugly... I love it!

I am working with this type of 3055 for this project and will be pumping a max of 2.5 amps at 12 volts through it, which is well
below the rated voltage these are supposed to handle. With the coils I made yesterday, it will run at less than an amp, but I will test
this with a bunch of coils until I find what I like. I know the math, but I end up testing stuff to see if the math really works. And yes..
I still stick the knife in the socket once in a while to make sure that it really hurt last time!

Any idea how much current it takes to get these things warm and then hot at 12 volts?

Quote from: tgraca on January 03, 2015, 06:15:52 AM
Damn that's ugly... I love it!

I am working with this type of 3055 for this project and will be pumping a max of 2.5 amps at 12 volts through it, which is well
below the rated voltage these are supposed to handle. With the coils I made yesterday, it will run at less than an amp, but I will test
this with a bunch of coils until I find what I like. I know the math, but I end up testing stuff to see if the math really works. And yes..
I still stick the knife in the socket once in a while to make sure that it really hurt last time!

Any idea how much current it takes to get these things warm and then hot at 12 volts?

I don't know how many amps it will take to generate heat.

Like you said...testing is the way to go.  Like TK said, there are tons of counterfeit components out there, especially the 3055 in this case/style for some reason.  I mean, there are so many fakes out there that the odds are very high against getting the genuine deal, even if it has a "brand name" printed on it.
(Just google counterfeit 2N3055 and you will be surprised)
So, unless you have opened one or two of them up to make sure, I would just test them as you suggested.  As TK pointed out elsewhere, you can get 5 totally different results using 5 of these fake 3055's.  There are Youtube videos on these copied components.

Good luck,

Bill

I got a little impatient waiting for my 25 watt resistor and wound a coil as a resistor. It gets very hot. Tried several configurations today.
Have any of you guys successfully used a coil as a resistor?

Quote from: tgraca on January 03, 2015, 02:59:33 PM
I got a little impatient waiting for my 25 watt resistor and wound a coil as a resistor. It gets very hot. Tried several configurations today.
Have any of you guys successfully used a coil as a resistor?

Wires work fine as resistors at low frequency. 

Quote from: MarkE on January 03, 2015, 03:15:03 PM
Wires work fine as resistors at low frequency.

Not sure what the issue is... I will wind one with 20 AWG instead of 23 AWG and see if that helps. I just tried it without the resistor for fun.
Got my 3055 transistor caught on video burning up with 22 amps! lol

This seems to be my best running cell so far... 17 days before first maintenance.. ran 25 more days until today's second maintenance cycle.
Crystal Battery #354 - Built Nov. 26
Nov 27 - 1.21 volts
Nov 28 - 1080 mV
Nov 29 - 1083 mV
Dec 01 - 1065 mV
Dec 3 -  1056 mV (7 days)
Dec 10 - 925 mV (14 days)
Dec 13 - 413 mV - added 3 mL of water - day 17
- 1203 mV (day 0)
Jan 2  - 855 mV (day 20)
Jan 7 - 386 mV - light still on dimly - added water with syringe/sealed - day 25
- 1005 mV under load

I was working with Polymer, Iron powder, Activated charcoal, Water, Vermiculite and Salt about a year ago and have revisited that
over the last 2 weeks. I have added the MnO2 and hydrate 5. I think using magnesium and carbon instead of magnesium and copper will
work much better, but am waiting on some carbon fiber rods. I'll make a video on this when I begin these new builds.
Magnesium and carbon have the best potential for the highest volts as DiveFlyFish showed a few years back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLfNB_dQE_Y

We'll see if it is his electrolyte or the electrodes that proves 3 volts from one cell... I don't have easy access to some of the ingredients
in his electrolyte mix, so I have used my notes on Bedini's chemistry lessons on my new electrolyte mix, primarily to absorb off-gassing.
I really don't think the electrolyte matters much, except for off-gassing and galvanic effects... the same power could come from just
Epsom salt... we'll see...

NO I am not dead.   ;D


Testing takes forEVERrrrrr. 


I have being testing this casted in resin cell that is about 1 year or more old running without adding any water at all. I cannot add water even if I wanted to because it is inside the resin cast.


She is running an incredible stable voltage of 1.49v+ running an LED. It is not bright to quit my job but in the night can really bother you. After this one year (or so) testing like that I decided to kill her by changing the load from the LED to a short with a 100 ohm resistor. The cell dropped voltage substantially until stabilized at a certain level. I removed that load and put it back to the LED where she reached the level of 1.47+v and she is slowly climbing up.


I hated to have to do this final "shorting the cell" test but it is science and one must do it. I learned a very important fact that was bugging me for years.


If a cell (that works) presents a constant voltage under load, this cell will continue on that level UNTIL you apply a different load where it will try to balance it out again. Unfortunately if the new load is higher, in other words, lower resistance load, the cell WILL SUFFER a CORROSION effect until a new balance is found. The new balanced level will be lower than before but still steady again.


Once you form the cell for a particular load you MUST leave it as it is now until the end of the daysssssss.


Well, that was one cell. I replicated this one cell twice more and all are running the exact same. They run forever without changing the voltage in any substantial way under load. I am talking about a guaranteed constant voltage up to 3 digits. While at the 4 digit and on it will simply go up and down constantly but remaining same overall average voltage.


Off course all this testing is running on my only graph meter and my laptop recording this months of boring test BUT hey, it is showing by empirical data that the cell indeed works.


Lessons learned:


1 - Water must be retained. Not too much, not too little.
2 - Some initial corrosion will happen but it must be limited until crystal forms and all the water content is merged to the internal structure of the crystal.
3 - Lower internal resistance is better but also causes the final voltage balance under load to be reduced.
4 - The load must be CONSTANT and the cell MUST be formed for the load only.
5 - Avoidance of contact with air is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT.
6 - Violent vibration/shocks can destroy the crystals inside and make the cell useless.
7 - The most important, NEVER ADD ANY WATER AGAIN.


Soon I will show some pics of the cell and the graph.


Fausto.

Plengo:

Nice work! I like the sealed cell idea except for one possible exception.  If it keeps the air out, which appears to be a good idea from your tests, then will it not keep any gasses formed inside?  This also may be good and why it works as it does.  What I am wondering about, is the possibility of an explosion if the pressure inside gets too high?  I mean, if pressure were building up, you could not really tell could you?

Other than that, it appears to be a great step forward and I wish you the best with your work.

What if this cell lasts forever?  The Duracell folks might want to take you out, ha ha.

Bill

Quote from: Pirate88179 on April 28, 2015, 11:39:04 PM
Plengo:

Nice work! I like the sealed cell idea except for one possible exception.  If it keeps the air out, which appears to be a good idea from your tests, then will it not keep any gasses formed inside?  This also may be good and why it works as it does.  What I am wondering about, is the possibility of an explosion if the pressure inside gets too high?  I mean, if pressure were building up, you could not really tell could you?

Other than that, it appears to be a great step forward and I wish you the best with your work.

What if this cell lasts forever?  The Duracell folks might want to take you out, ha ha.

Bill

I don't think it will explode, even if it was it would be more like a girls tiny little fart (purfrf), that's it.  ;D


I have one  that is about 2 years old now and she is pretty much the same size as in the beginning. There is some expanding to a limited size and it stopped. It always happens with open cells.


If this runs forever?!! I hope so and I wish the battery companies would take me for a ride. I would tell them about Jesus love for the lost.

Fausto.

Hi Fausto, I have noticed that it has been almost 18 months since you posted results of your sealed cell tests.  How did you get on with these cells?  I have been following crystal cell development for several years now and am interested in getting into making some myself in the near future. I appreciate you sharing your insights on what to do and not do in construction and operation of cells.

I have noticed that there are lots of gems of information which are scattered throughout the forums, but with so many pages it does make it hard to follow along and glean information about what works and what doesn't.

It would be very useful to future experimentation if each of you guys could post in a single summary, what you have learned concerning composition of cells, what works and what doesn't concerning electrodes and electrolytes, coating of electrodes etc. for wet cells and dry cells. By what works and doesn't, I mean what things give the most power output for a cell and also what gives the longest life.

I have done a similar thing to what I am proposing here with another area of research I am involved in, and it was very beneficial for helping others to break into the field of research.  It may be of benefit here too.

Kind Regards,
Tim.

Forgive me for taking so long to respond. Believe it or not, I just came here TODAY after years to post my findings that i published at my facebook account a few weeks ago: https://www.facebook.com/fausto.gomes/posts/10210124053596741


I think I got a very good result, in specific and coincidental, about that cell that you are asking. This cell's name is FLASHY. I did one for my son. I moved to another house and lost her. Finally I found her in a box somewhere. She was totally dead. I was very happy to find her.


I decided to revive her using my best methodology which is what I published in FB. I have to make another post in English. The results are wonderful. Unfortunately that one needs constant water adding although no corrosion will be seen.


I do have a WORKING cell, I do. It is simply incredible how can something run for soooooo looooonnnng on water. One terminal's metal gone into a different color and consistency and YET still runs. Absolutely externally dried and sealed cells also works, although, again, water inside ONLY. Water does not leave, water does not enter. This is the cell you are asking.


I am sharing ALL in FB. You can replicate one yourself. So let me waste no time and share my findings.


Thanks for asking btw.


Fausto.

Quote from: Macgyver7 on November 01, 2016, 10:32:02 AM
Hi Fausto, I have noticed that it has been almost 18 months since you posted results of your sealed cell tests.  How did you get on with these cells?  I have been following crystal cell development for several years now and am interested in getting into making some myself in the near future. I appreciate you sharing your insights on what to do and not do in construction and operation of cells.

I have noticed that there are lots of gems of information which are scattered throughout the forums, but with so many pages it does make it hard to follow along and glean information about what works and what doesn't.

It would be very useful to future experimentation if each of you guys could post in a single summary, what you have learned concerning composition of cells, what works and what doesn't concerning electrodes and electrolytes, coating of electrodes etc. for wet cells and dry cells. By what works and doesn't, I mean what things give the most power output for a cell and also what gives the longest life.

I have done a similar thing to what I am proposing here with another area of research I am involved in, and it was very beneficial for helping others to break into the field of research.  It may be of benefit here too.

Kind Regards,
Tim.

In this year of 2017 great progress I have made.


My crystal cells are running for so long that I decided to publish what I think is relevant for others to replicate, create, expand and be happy with an LED running in the night every night for free, or almost so.


I use Copper and Zinc. Other metals works but the process of formation is totally different and also the results. I will focus on the one I have the best data so far. A proper made cell composed of Copper and Zinc should run for years. Simple.


The crystal in use is Epson Salts, readily available in pharmacies. Copper can be cut from pipes, or even use thin Copper foil. I've done both. I like the copper rings because they can sustain pressure although my Zinc cell that I will describe here uses Copper foil.


I also use Carbon Activated, the ones used in home fish tanks.


The only element that needs careful handling is MnO2 (Manganese Di-Oxide). It is black, very heavy and goes into the skin easily. Use gloves or wash your hands frequently.


The geometry is simple:  Copper Plate - Paper Tower impregnated [/size]with Epson Salts saturated solution - Paper Towel impregnated with MnO2 - Zinc Plate.


The formation process is the key. I use a camping oven of magnetic induction and a power supply capable of delivering 60 volts at 5 to 10 amps.


Once the cell is assembled I connect the positive terminal of the power supply to the positive (copper side) of the cell. Negatives the same. I apply a 60 Volts and let the current flow. It will go from 10 Amps to 5 to 3 to 2 Amps and so on until the cell goes dry. The cell will be ready for next phase when there still current going through while dry as it can be and room temperature. If running the power supply for more than 15 minutes does not change the current dissipation then it is done.


On this second run (second phase - ""cooking"") I add plenty of saturated Epson Solution to the cell to make it very, very wet. Turn on the Oven and keep it at 120 Celcius temperature ON THE CELL SURROUNDINGS. Apply voltage and let it cook and sizzle. I Keep adding Epson Solution and observe how the crystal will grow quickly and become very hard pure white powder. I may have to repeat this process many times until you see this very white powder inside the cell. IT IS A MUST.


At the same time I observe the CURRENT going through the Cell and how it is reflected on the CELL ITSELF while cooking. This gives me a sense of how electricity is helping the formation of the CELL'S "tunnels" where water will flow and GIVE ITS ENERGY to the Cell.


This process might be repeated many times. I proper totally dry cooked formed cell will allow current going through of about 30 ma for a 60 V applied pressure. If current flows below 5 ma it means that the cell is dead and needs to go to the "cooking" again.


Once I create about 5 cells I put then together in series and connect an LED. It should light it up. 10 Cells in series will give a good light. This group of cells will die. Now comes the next phase - feeding and growing and forming NATURALLY.


This Zinc cell loves water. All the Zinc will eventually be gone and transformed into something else and the cell will die. Now, that is the real death of the cell. Usually people stop here.


Now that i have a cell that is dead, it is time to revive her and let her live with the only thing she needs, WATER. Add a few drops of distilled water with Epson Salts (the concentration will depend in how fast crystal grows and temperature - I start with 1/2 volume of each). I put them into a warm place in the house, in my case in the HEAT machine in the basement. The crystal will grow and so her ability of producing power.


Feeding the cell with water is crucial in for the SLOW NATURAL FORMATION of the crystal of the cell. A LOAD MUST BE ATTACHED otherwise it does not work. I noticed that while the crystals grow while current is flowing causes the water to be the FUEL. At least this is what I THINK. I am probably ultra wrong!


Unfortunately the normal galvanic reaction that does exist masks everything. I do have cells that do not go through the galvanic process but for this Zinc cell it is different. Once the Zinc is GONE you will finally have a non-galvanic crystal cell.


This same cell process described here will perform 10 times better inside a sealed water proof container with a limited initial amount of water added before sealing. Those are the cells I used with Resins.




I will post pics and videos soon. So much to do!


Fausto.

"The geometry is simple:  Copper Plate - Paper Tower
impregnated [/size]with Epson Salts saturated
solution - Paper Towel impregnated with MnO2 - Zinc
Plate."

Interesting.this setup will burn through many stages 1st Cu2+ e-,2nd MnO2 + H+ e-,3rd O2 + H+ + e-,finaly O2 + h2O + e- it'l burn longtime yes

Could you elaborate in more detail please?


Fausto.

Quote from: profitis on July 07, 2017, 06:55:16 AM
"The geometry is simple:  Copper Plate - Paper Tower
impregnated [/size]with Epson Salts saturated
solution - Paper Towel impregnated with MnO2 - Zinc
Plate."

Interesting.this setup will burn through many stages 1st Cu2+ e-,2nd MnO2 + H+ e-,3rd O2 + H+ + e-,finaly O2 + h2O + e- it'l burn longtime yes

Soon I will post some very interesting things. Well, sharing now, I have officially passed the 5 years mark with 3 cells running inside an epoxy brick without any contact with air, water or even anything coming out.


I am studying a phenomena in these cells that shows a "heart beat" when the cell is completely dead.


I am preparing a series of videos about this phenomena.


And no, i have not stopped this research for even a day in all these years. I am having very promising results.


Fausto.

Today I am very happy with my research. Finally after almost 10 years I got my first 1 milli-watt cell running an LED for 3 years, and this cell is OPENED.


My other cell is running for 5 years and it is casted in epoxy. I cannot open it.


Guys, this is something but I think no one cares which is ok.


I am very happy because with 1 milli-watt I can finally run an electronic device such an oscillator or joule thief.


Fausto.

Hi Plengo,

Thank you for this interesting subject (including Marcus Reid's thesis, to which you referred a few years ago).
This thread having started a long time ago, it's difficult to find our way around. Could you summarize your experiments and measurements (possibly in texts rather than video, it's more synthetic)?

Here are pictures and measurements and graphs.


First pic is the cell running an LED and performing load tests. This cell was created on June-3-2015 and unfortunately cracked open which literally kills the cell. I revived her (third and final forming process) and now here she is running forever an LED very brightly.


Second pic is its voltage and current over 1k resistor. Left gray meter is on micro-amps scale showing an almost 1 ma current. Voltage is 1 volt +.


Third pic is a load test graph. The higher voltage (pulse) is a 5 minutes time run and shows the voltage across the terminals of the battery while running an LED. The next 5 minutes shows the cell under a heavier load of 1k ohm. Observe the response time. Almost instantaneous response no matter what kind of load i put. Regular commercial batteries do not behave like that.


Fourth pic is the third pic zoomed.


Fifth pic is the hearth beat of the cell.


Sixth pic is a close up of this old running cell under load.


Seventh pic is showing the mother of all proofs, a extremely steady cell running an LED. This graph is only a tinny piece of YEARS like that. Those cells get stronger with time.


When the cell is DEAD it shows this hearth beat with pulses of 4 volts running indefinitely.


Fausto.

First pic is a close up of one cell.
Second pic is showing a "before formed" cell (you can see the Mg rod very shinny) and second cell is formed and running.


Fausto.

I need to patent this invention to protect it from evil people. I have no problem having people creating products of it and making money without paying me anything BUT if a COMPANY tries to do the same I will certainly look for my rights.


After watching how patent wars work I decided that I have to protect this invention. Patent wars are very damaging to inventors and the public in general. If someone else find out how I do it they will patent it and send me a letter of cease and desist forcing me to stop all this research and lose my rights.


So, if anyone here has a better idea, please, let me know. Running 1 milli-watt is very useful.


Fausto.

How much power does the battery deliver and how long does it work?

1 milli-watts and indeterminably.

The power you supply is 1 mW. Over 3 years, this represents an energy of 3*365*24*1*1*1/1000=26.2 Wh. You are within the range of a non-rechargeable R14 battery, and since the volume of your cell seems to be of the same order as that of an R14, this is an excellent result in terms of energy density.

Nevertheless, this performance is on the order of what ordinary chemical reactions could produce, and since the instantaneous power is much lower than that of R14 batteries, it could be assumed that the reactions here are more complete.

Is there something that lets you think that this is not the result of ordinary chemical reactions in the cell unlike any pile? I mean do you think there is a new process at work, or do you think it is the result of an obviously very smart engineering design and reaction products choice, but based on a conventional principle?

Quote from: plengo on December 01, 2018, 11:17:14 AM
I need to patent this invention to protect it from evil people. I have no problem having people creating products of it and making money without paying me anything BUT if a COMPANY tries to do the same I will certainly look for my rights.


After watching how patent wars work I decided that I have to protect this invention. Patent wars are very damaging to inventors and the public in general. If someone else find out how I do it they will patent it and send me a letter of cease and desist forcing me to stop all this research and lose my rights.


So, if anyone here has a better idea, please, let me know. Running 1 milli-watt is very useful.


Fausto.

   Fausto:  Can you show just what you are using a "1 milli-watt" cell for?  Why do you think that this amount of voltage with very little current is useful?
   I also have totally dry aluminum carbon cells that are years old and still can output over a volt, and a couple of mAs. 
However, I don't see any point in trying to use their output of obtain any use able amount of light from them. And is why I ask you in what way are those cells useful?

Quote from: F6FLT on December 02, 2018, 06:17:50 AM
The power you supply is 1 mW. Over 3 years, this represents an energy of 3*365*24*1*1*1/1000=26.2 Wh. You are within the range of a non-rechargeable R14 battery, and since the volume of your cell seems to be of the same order as that of an R14, this is an excellent result in terms of energy density.

Nevertheless, this performance is on the order of what ordinary chemical reactions could produce, and since the instantaneous power is much lower than that of R14 batteries, it could be assumed that the reactions here are more complete.

Is there something that lets you think that this is not the result of ordinary chemical reactions in the cell unlike any pile? I mean do you think there is a new process at work, or do you think it is the result of an obviously very smart engineering design and reaction products choice, but based on a conventional principle?

I think it is not conventional. First I know what corrosion is by looking at others cells with same mass and materials.


Second, cells get 1 degree celsius below room temperature.


Third, the cell is outputting more and more energy as it is used.


Fifth, the graphs, the graphs and the graphs.

Quote from: NickZ on December 02, 2018, 10:05:26 AM
   Fausto:  Can you show just what you are using a "1 milli-watt" cell for?  Why do you think that this amount of voltage with very little current is useful?
   I also have totally dry aluminum carbon cells that are years old and still can output over a volt, and a couple of mAs. 
However, I don't see any point in trying to use their output of obtain any use able amount of light from them. And is why I ask you in what way are those cells useful?

1 mW is enough to run an LED and a Joule third.

    Fausto:
   Can you show it doing so, along side of a normal LED? Perhaps you can convince me that the cell's lumen level thus obtained is useful. In any case it would be good to also show what you are referring to, like in a video, along with some meter readings.   
   I'm not asking to disclose any secrets, but if you'd like some comments or interests from the forum, it would be good to show some results.
   The fact that you mentioned that one cell cracked open makes me wonder about oxidation, and the old galvanic reaction.
As salts absorb water in open cells, which helps any type of salt crystals to grow, while it eats away at the magnesium and the copper, providing an output. The drier the cell, the longer it lasts. Hermetically sealed cells work the longest, yet have the least output in mAs. 
   Does this all sound familiar?  What has changed, then?
                 NickZ   
   
   Remember me?  I was on the crystal cell thread, for quite a while, as you were, as well.

Quote from: plengo on December 02, 2018, 12:25:47 PM
...Second, cells get 1 degree celsius below room temperature.
...

Of course, this is the most critical point. How did you check this temperature and how many times over the 3 years?
Karpen has patented a possible process for converting ambient heat into electricity (http://exvacuo.free.fr/div/Sciences/Dossiers/MaxwellDemon/N%20Vasilesco-Karpen%20-%20Pile%20permanente%20(Electrical%20battery)%20-%20FR577087A%20(english).pdf) without a chemical reaction, but a mix of both processes is still possible. Could it be related to his cells?

See here  (https://www.greenoptimistic.com/karpen-pile/)also.

and a long time coming video packaged with findings in a very simple 3 steps progress showing the potential of this technology.


https://youtu.be/2m57x2CE0kk

Nice.   I couldn't quite understand what the center piece is made from in the video.  What type of metal and is it coated or treated with something?   
    Ok I see after reading back a bit you may want to protect this process.   I have a question about the 'heart beat' you mention.   Are you seeing pulses from the battery as I see on your o-scope?   If so I have to ask if it is possible you are picking up EMF from your home?   Are the pulses the same rate as your power grid?   Just asking and not trying to reduce the discovery you have but since it is not mentioned I had to wonder if it has been considered.   In other words can you take your cell out in the wilderness away from any strong EMF sources and still see voltage on it from your meter.   I'm guessing you have already considered that but it would be good to state this is not the case - i.e. an antenna cell of sorts.

It is not 60 or 50 hz, so no, it is not the house.


I do carry my cell with me in my car when I drive for Uber/Lyft.


The black piece of metal is Magnesium (Mg) processed via Electrolysis. A 2 ml solution of H2SO4 (Sulfuric Acid) (car battery electrolyte), plus 300 ml of distilled water. Add Epson Salts until solution saturates at room temperature (25 Celsius).


Magnesium goes to the negative terminal and positive terminal goes to a Copper pipe touching the surface of the solution inside a container.


You have to perform the electrolysis many times in sections of 20 seconds. Clean the surface of the Mg until dry using a kitchen paper towel on each bath.


The final result will be similar to what you see in the picture. The one in the picture is very wet, just come out of the bath.


This piece once formed correctly will generate power, although extremely small, indefinitely.

Quote from: plengo on November 04, 2019, 03:03:16 PM
and a long time coming video packaged with findings in a very simple 3 steps progress showing the potential of this technology.


https://youtu.be/2m57x2CE0kk (https://youtu.be/2m57x2CE0kk)

Wow I have to have a play with this. Thank you for sharing. Very interesting.

Please do participate and try. I am here to help everyone to get it running. It will run for decades.

And finally after 8 years, here it is my own replication and vindication that I am not crazy.


Now that I have a replication of my running cell since March 2013, I can go to the next level confidently that it will work and it is working.


Well, this is silly but it is real science work, or at least as I call it "Monkey Science".


https://youtu.be/7a9w5bv_fIw


Fausto.

Fausto
There is no doubt you inspire , You're "little motor"  that Makes power
Or harvests from ?


Truly needs more investigation , and like Jim above I will also be experimenting
And share here and wherever open source is welcomed !


Tremendous gratitude
Chet
Vids again
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2m57x2CE0kk&feature=youtu.be (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2m57x2CE0kk&feature=youtu.be)


https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=7a9w5bv_fIw (https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=7a9w5bv_fIw)

My crystal cell works by this one simple little statement:


   Chaotic behavior of the water polarized molecule catapulting electrons out of SZ (semi-conductor zone layer).


Causative force: ambient heat, chaos
Motor force: vibrating water polarized water molecules


This screenshot is from a conference where Marcus Reid (I think the real creator of this technology) is explaining the working principles of his quantum theory of how his cells possibly work.


It was very clear to me that he is dead on the correct track. I am using that principle in my cells too. (edit: or perhaps I am just a confused man :) ).

Quote from: plengo on November 09, 2019, 10:43:12 AM
And finally after 8 years, here it is my own replication and vindication that I am not crazy.


Now that I have a replication of my running cell since March 2013, I can go to the next level confidently that it will work and it is working.

What makes you beleive that it's not 100% galvanic ?

The fact that it works for many years does NOT rule out that it's a galvanic cell.
I have a calculator which is running on the same little Lithium cell for more than 25 years now. And i'm using it almost daily.

Your battery from 2013 has 1000 times the volume of the Lithium cell in my calculator.

   Plengo:   Thanks for your update.   There are probably several of us that still have what we were calling "Crystal Cells". And some cells still show a volt or so after some years of running a small load. But due to a practically useless output current, they have been forgotten in time. Even John Bedini had giving up on them, although some of his cells could produce one amp or more, of current. But, that was not enough for him, even when connecting them up to his oscillator circuits, to light some leds.
  Yet, my dry cells only provided a few mAs, (on the dry cells). And of course, the wet electrolyte cells showed higher outputs. But still not worth the effort, nor could compete with solar cells, etz.
   So, after all these years, can you show us what your cells can actually do? Regardless of whether they are galvanic, or not...

 Well I see a nano scale test bed
And I know Fausto is a very smart cookie


And we have resources to see at the nanoscale  and study what is actually happening

I also did some experiments with crystal cells years ago but i did not see anything extraordinary.
In my opinion they are 100% galvanic, there is nothing which can not be explained by galvanic effects.
The fact that they hold their voltage for many years is because of the fact that they have a very high impedance.
That's also the reason why they can not deliver high currents.

The only use case for such cells would be calculators, electronic clocks etc. but that's not really helpful.

Anyway, they don't deliver energy forever, so the energy is not 'free' and IMO it's not even cheaper than energy from normal batteries.

 Sky watcher there is so much more to this science of Marcus Reid
Gerald Pollack
And many others


I am not at my computer now with the applied science YouTube video where glass takes a charge from water ?
I believe it was posted in the Stanley Meyer thread from member master plaster


Plasma and water also amazingly interesting area


I predict in the not too distant future a few weeks perhaps
they'll be many more interesting things to discuss about water on these open source forums
and I repeat something I've said before the resources available to this us ...in open source community are stupefying
people want to be a part of this change at all levels


There's something very very special about water as well as these people who share


I apologize if this text is hard to read I'm voice texting and on my way with my grandson to pick up an ultrasonic transducer....which will be harvested from Humidifier

Unfortunately Marcus Reid has not open-sourced his crystal cells so his work can not be reproduced and checked by others.

 8 to 9 minute mark in this video
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zzVa_tX1OiI (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zzVa_tX1OiI)


Glass and water makes ?


So Marcus isn't sharing?


When did that ever stop us
Doesn't seem to be slowing Fausto down

http://rexresearch.com/reid/reid.htm (http://rexresearch.com/reid/reid.htm)
September 1999 to December 2006 totally 60 Wh output from the 900 Gr.  Cristal cell,

this are 10 Wh per year  !

For 1 KWh per year : 100 x 10 Wh = 100 x 900 Gr.= 90 Kg Cristal cell
For 1 KWh per day : 365 KWh /0,01KWh = 36500 x 900 Gr.= 32850 Kg Cristal cell



"open source" production 2 US$ per Kg ( recycled aluminium ) :  65700 US$ for 1 KWh daily delivery

                     Over 34 cents/KWh electricity costs  ! It is not cheap ! By 1000% improvement : okay !


It is actually uneconomical/-ecological :

when we calculate for a aluminium battery with 200 Watth capacity x 3000 charge cycles =

     600 KWh per Kg aluminium x 32850 Kg = 19710000 KWh mass energy storage capacity

The Reid cell  with 32850 Kg mass : 365 KWh energy storage delivery
                                  good/bad engineering performance :

                       365/ 19710000 = 0,00000185 mass output ratio 


   2250 cars with aluminium battery or                                              32850 Kg mass
          1 private household with 1 KWh per day electricity               32850 Kg mass

Interesting everyone's point of view. Some are down right earth and critical to make me cry and stop BUT, nooooooo. This research has been a delight in my life. All I do is have fun, learn, experiment, thinker it, study chemistry like crazy. This is fun.




Man, these cells have free energy all right. We don't know how they work. I found the bare bone effect which is well demonstrated on my recent video. The first in 7 years i think.


I look at this as a learning experiment. If, a big if, if that source of free energy , although extremely small, if that effect can be amplified to 6 orders of magnitude, we are talking big power.


Today's open air batteries (Mg air battery , Al, etc) are extremely promising but how come they are able to produce so much power by simply converting Mg to Mg Oxide?  (Mg = Magnesium).


In my case I have a nice little beautiful light running 24/7 until the day I die for the cost of $3 and a learning experience.


So, science is not about making money and bringing a revolution to the world. I really don't care about that anymore. I care about learning, discovering and teaching my kids and friends that FREE ENERGY IS REAL and we are the dumb ones to not know how it works. Science locked everyone out when they designed the 1st and 2nd thermodynamic laws, which are not laws at all.




So, to answer one, Yes, I have a little light running every day/night shinning the hallway of my house.
The power is very useful since I don't have to buy a light device, buy batteries, many times. I have my light, my eternal light running since 2013 and all she needs is a place, no water or air. Casted into an Epoxy Resin.


How I know it is not galvanic? That is very complicated to answer. Not all my cells are non-galvanic. Some are, some are not. Some are extremely efficient and some are the opposite. Once I made a cell and the electrolyte (my formula) and it devoured a 12", 4" diameter rod of Magnesium in one week. I never saw something so strong. Just Alum. John Bedini's favorite electrolyte (I am said he passed away).


One of my very old running cell is presenting a constant steady voltage and no sighs of decay. No access to inside the cell either. It is inside a resin. I know that one is not galvanic because I already tested extensively different quantities of the elements in the cell to know how long they should run. They passed that calculated time by many times now.


Besides, my Mg plates now are only 1 mm thick. They go very fast when the reaction is galvanic.


Now, here is my question back, why it has to be galvanic?




Fausto.

Great info. Thank you.


And, that link you gave is the only thing I had 8 years ago, or so, when I looked into Marcus's cells.


Fausto.

Quote from: lancaIV on November 11, 2019, 11:06:49 AM
http://rexresearch.com/reid/reid.htm (http://rexresearch.com/reid/reid.htm)
September 1999 to December 2006 totally 60 Wh output from the 900 Gr.  Cristal cell,

this are 10 Wh per year  !

For 1 KWh per year : 100 x 10 Wh = 100 x 900 Gr.= 90 Kg Cristal cell
For 1 KWh per day : 365 KWh /0,01KWh = 36500 x 900 Gr.= 32850 Kg Cristal cell



"open source" production 2 US$ per Kg ( recycled aluminium ) :  65700 US$ for 1 KWh daily delivery

                     Over 34 cents/KWh electricity costs  ! It is not cheap ! By 1000% improvement : okay !


It is actually uneconomical/-ecological :

when we calculate for a aluminium battery with 200 Watth capacity x 3000 charge cycles =

     600 KWh per Kg aluminium x 32850 Kg = 19710000 KWh mass energy storage capacity

The Reid cell  with 32850 Kg mass : 365 KWh energy storage delivery
                                  good/bad engineering performance :

                       365/ 19710000 = 0,00000185 mass output ratio 


   2250 cars with aluminium battery or                                              32850 Kg mass
          1 private household with 1 KWh per day electricity               32850 Kg mass

This video doesn't answer my questions about the Marcus Reid crystal cells.

There is no information about:
- which materials he is using
- how to build the cell

I also don't see any new developments. Did he present anything new (improved) in the last 10 years ?

  Yea, perhaps in another 8 years Fausto might be able to actually get some where.
Some say that crystal (salt "crystals") cells, get better with time... 
   Or dissolve into dust.  Whether the cell is galvanic or not, is not as important, as it's real usefulness, at only a few mAs output.   

Do you fellows understand that the 1mil sheet can be opened and examined for Galvanic reaction

and if Fausto has touched on a mechanism to harvest with no input power and if this mechanism is found to not be ambient noise harvesting ?
the Keys to a much bigger city !!

Masterplaster mentioned Titanium Dioxide coatings with Water and Glass
these "aligned chain" water molecule configurations ...are all the rage these days
here the Vid again from applied science.. the 9 minute mark shows Glass harvesting charge from Water [nano scale] with no power
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzVa_tX1OiI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzVa_tX1OiI)


and we can experiment here ??
nothing but gratitude and Hugs for the messenger !!

https://www.google.com/search?q=marcus+reid+cristal+cell&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-m (https://www.google.com/search?q=marcus+reid+cristal+cell&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-m)
www.breakthru-technologies.com (http://www.breakthru-technologies.com)  11 mW/Kg/25°C

if this is the per hour delivery :

11mW x 8766 hours ~ 96,5 Wh/Kg/year


compared to 1999-2006 10 Wh/900 Gr/year

96,5/( 10/0,9) ~ 8,7  the output or 770% improvement  !


32850 Kg /8,7 ~ now 3775 Kg cristal cell material for 1 KWh per day electricity delivery ~ 1 cube metre

Here the Reid cell development company :
https://vakuumenergie.de/?by_user=66.249.66.140&ref_url=%2Fdoc%2FThe_Crystal_Cell.pdf (https://vakuumenergie.de/?by_user=66.249.66.140&ref_url=%2Fdoc%2FThe_Crystal_Cell.pdf)

Economical-/ecological view :

3775 Kg and 1 KWh( 41,5 W x 24 h)
compared

12 V and 1,5 A = 18 VA x 24 h = 432 VAh or Watth per day

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=5&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19280203&CC=FR&NR=633752A&KC=A# (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=5&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19280203&CC=FR&NR=633752A&KC=A#)
Weight/portability dis-/ad- vantage. ? Production costs  ?


3x Meredieu capsels ~ 1x 3775 Kg Reid cell cube

Meredieu disadvantage : the periodic water as ionic fuel refill

Quote from: ramset on November 11, 2019, 03:11:53 PM
Do you fellows understand that the 1mil sheet can be opened and examined for Galvanic reaction

Has this been done ?  If yes, and there were no signs for galvanic reaction, this would change my mind.
The problem is: the average experimenter (without a deep understanding of chemistry) is not able to do such an examination. This has to be done by a lab.

Skywatcher
Accounting for ...or auditing all the energy from assembly /manufacter time until years later invasive/destructive analysis ?


I am certain data logging the output at maximum load
Long enough to make obvious galvanic particulate trace (if that is part of analysis
Protocols ) in conjunction with energy output audit (for sample comparison against galvanic "control" cell
Of similar/same composition and weight size etc (within reason?)
Can very easily be done !
Member Gotoluc recently did this for 3 or more months with an "Attempt " at a Rick Freidrick battery
Conditioning claim (no magic found tho in comparison to standard batteries ( as of this writing ...that
One may still be ongoing ...not certain)
Fully automating test apparatus with arduino or similar for autonomous data logging  (set test protocols ??


Below entertainment /education??

Charge can do funny things ....here an unrelated (or is it) vid of a guy showing just how odd a charge
Effect may be (energy field)
From member Jim  Boot https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I2B6j4MCpOg&feature=youtu.be (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I2B6j4MCpOg&feature=youtu.be)

The problem is that most of the crystal cells deliver so little power that you have to wait for years or even decades to rule out galvanic reaction.
Also the 'they don't die when shorted' argument is problematic because they have a high internal resistance so you can not really short them externally.

@Plengo:
How do you 'treat' the surface of your electrodes ?  I didn't find any info about this in your videos.
To replicate your results every detail how you make them is important.

Another question:
If the cell is not galvanic, why does it only work when two different metals are used ?
Why does it deliver more voltage when Cu/Mg is used, and less voltage if Cu/Al (or other combinations) are used ?

Skywatcher
Quite certain in the proper hands with electron scope
Things can be interpreted quickly and concisely.


And we do have this available


May not need electron scope either
I will find out


Also certain Fausto will have more input on his procedures
And vetting techniques over the years .

Well, i have been pondering about this question for a long time.


It is tricky because all my cells are contaminated. I don't have a lab so my techniques are far from what I would like to have. 


Since I only replicated my own work now, just this last week, which I published a video showing my A5 (that's her name), I am still not work in progress. Now I am on another level. At 1 mm Mg plates. Corrosion is very fast and very obvious. A simple magnifying glass shows it. Also how long it runs is important. Usually at 1 mm I can see corrosion in 4 hours.


So all my tests now are quicker than before. Before every test took weeks and months and all in one machine to log only. Now I am doing faster, many, many quicker tests.


So to answer our questions here it is what I am doing:


- Each set of cells that I make I take pictures/videos and put it to run under load and on the computer logging voltage and time. Load usually is a resistor. So i infer current. Too bad I don't have two sensors at once.
- After each quick run I open and inspect the plates.
- The run is based on how long water content will completely evaporate/dry from the cell.
- if no corrosion present, replenish the cell with FUEL and run it again.
- stop when corrosion is present.



Very simple. I test almost hundreds of cells this way. Previous years my methods were difficult because I cannot open the running cells anymore. They are set in stone now.

With this technique I can test many different materials and formulas. My work is almost 100% empirical. I don't care what the book says if it does not help. Just repeating that " it is REDOX " means nothing to me because none of the numbers and experiments that I do are equivalent to what the books are saying. It is a game. So I don't take the reality of "chemistry" as being absolute.


Another issue I see is that many are trying to make a BATTERY that is rechargeable. I am NOT. I want a MACHINE that produces electricity. A Transistor is not a BATTERY but a MACHINE. That is more like my line of thought. This crystal cell have more to do with semi-conductors than chemistry.


Now, here is a question that I would love to know. I have a copper plate and a magnesium plate with an oxide layer on top of it. Just putting this 2 dry plates together we have a voltage. How come? Voltage means it has some current even in the pico level. Where that infinity supply of pico current comes from? Don't that bother you? It does not die, ever. It is there always. Different layers or chemicals, different voltages. All of those cases have no power under a load. Interesting. Those 2 plates are capable of producing an infinite amount of pico current under a certain load. If you change this "load" even that pico current is gone. Interesting. Dynamic behavior or related to the load some how.


Well, that is leading me to another investigation that has been masked by the long running cells, galvanic or not. The EFFECT (as I call it) is present but it is so small that no one sees it when a galvanic reaction is happening.


Would be possible to isolate that little energy and amplify? I think so. I am working on exactly that.


Concerning Marcus Reid, no info to share. He seams to only publish a few videos marketing style then anything else. Frustrating but hey, his baby, his ways.
I want to share and have people helping.


Fausto.

Quote from: skywatcher on November 11, 2019, 06:19:04 PM
The problem is that most of the crystal cells deliver so little power that you have to wait for years or even decades to rule out galvanic reaction.
Also the 'they don't die when shorted' argument is problematic because they have a high internal resistance so you can not really short them externally.

@Plengo:
How do you 'treat' the surface of your electrodes ?  I didn't find any info about this in your videos.
To replicate your results every detail how you make them is important.

Concerning the "treatment" of the plate.


Nothing special, just plain electrolysis. You can use vinegar as an electrolyte and also Sulfuric Acid. I use both.


I build many layers of "stuff" over the Mg plates and test them all. Voltage and current changes the outcome substantially. Millions of tests to perform. Of course I am following a certain intuition logic of my own.


Monkey Science.


Fausto.

Hot vinegar can be used to dissolve any metal
Which can then be electroplated onto your Mg


I've been solidifying every metal i can, into a solid salt crystal
They each have their own color, they are identified as organo-metallic
and you don't want to touch most of them.

@plengo:

Thanks for sharing your information about making your cells.   :)

At least you are aware of the fact that most of the effects (maybe all ?  we don't know for sure) are galvanic.
This makes experimenting so tough because you need to do many experiments.
Experimenting (the 'Monkey'-component  ;) ) is important because new effects can only be found by experimenting.
But we also have to be realistic. The chance to find anything new is very low because there have been millions of experiments in the last 150 years.
Every battery manufacturer tries to improve his batteries, and they have professional equipment etc.

The ultimate test for 'galvanic or not' would be to calculate the maximum energy output for the case that any metal in the cell has been corroded away, and if your cell has delivered more than this amount of energy, it has to be something else. But if you get only microwatts this experiment would run for decades even with small cells.

Sometimes i hear 'the cell is completely dry so it can not be galvanic' which is complete nonsense because most of the salts which are used contain plenty of water, which can be seen if the salt is heated up and then the water comes out. If you boil out the water completely the cell will not show any significant voltage, but maybe it will slowly build up some voltage as it's absorbing some humidity from the air.

Yesterday i did a small experiment. I used a piece of PCB material (with 35 um copper) about 5x7 cm and a piece of aluminium of the same size. Between them i put some Rochelle salt, and a piece of glass fibre fabric (as spacer). Then i put it into the oven, with a weight on top to press it together, and i baked it at 230°C for 1 hr. After cooling down i measured the voltage and there was nothing. 0.00 mV. Also some time later, there was only 0.04 mV. Then i connected a 10 k resistor to both plates and waited for some time. I measured again and i saw some small increase of voltage. I removed the resistor and measured some 20 mV but it decreased rapidly. I connected the resistor again, waited some hours, then i measured almost 200 mV... interesting...

But maybe that's the effect i described above: the cell is absorbing humidity from the air. Because the cell is flat the contact surface (electrolyte to air) is very small so this could take some time.


Unfortunately my time is limited so i have to set priorities, so i will not have time to do hundrets of experiments. But i will continue following this thread. Maybe some interesting effects will be found some day...

Or may be it is indeed free energy those 200 mv. Can you amplify it?


I know there is more to it than just galvanic.


But you're right. Too small of energy. Almost useless, actually monetarily speaking it is a waste of time and money but I am doing because I love it and there nothing wrong with keeping the mind busy and learning new things and of course, having some beautiful lights around the house.


Fausto.

Quote from: skywatcher on November 12, 2019, 04:58:13 AM
But maybe that's the effect i described above: the cell is absorbing humidity from the air. Because the cell is flat the contact surface (electrolyte to air) is very small so this could take some time.

Hello friends!
It is strange that the topic of obtaining energy from a neutrino flux is not present on the forum. Maybe I missed something? On the Internet, there is now a massive advertising campaign in this direction. These gentlemen promise to make Pi - electric car, that does not need to be charged.
I hope that the forum members from Germany could tell in more detail what is happening there.
October 8, 2019:
https://youtu.be/vTCNtI3DsQk?t=459

and other info and resource:

https://neutrino-inside.com/#link2

https://neutrino-energy.com/scientific-advisory-board/

https://neutrino-wiki.com/

My current opinion is skeptical.
Neutrinos can pass through planets and stars and not interact with anything. How can they affect the thinnest graphene layer on the foil?

I think that this is closer to this forum topic, "Сrystall cell".
If someone thinks differently, it would be nice to create a separate topic on the forum for "neutrino energy"

https://peswiki.com/directory:water-powered-batteries (https://peswiki.com/directory:water-powered-batteries)
Really impressive : Larry Kostiuks 2 cm diameter tube : 1/2 Million channels = " tubes in a tube"


https://peswiki.com/directory:batteries (https://peswiki.com/directory:batteries)
https://phys.org/news/2009-12-digital-quantum-battery-boost-energy.html (https://phys.org/news/2009-12-digital-quantum-battery-boost-energy.html)  " nano vacuum tube"

There are some effects, disclosed in the last 10 years, in Angstroem-layer density relationships  !
For us,without nano-sphere measurement instruments and operating tools by hand,we are only - well equipped - lab visitors !

"billions of (nano- )capacitors" to "billions of ( nano-) MOSFET/capacitor circuits x operation velocity
- here not more pulses/Hz,but "f.l.o.p.s" velocity

floating point operation per second  https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floating_Point_Operations_Per_Second (https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floating_Point_Operations_Per_Second)

      Quantum energy process : magnitude and plenitude


To understand lab prototyping in micro-/nano-scale and transducing this " Unikat production process " to mass production machinery :
by same" average" quality,  calculateable lifetime and endconsumer affordable production costs to market price
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/futuristic-high-density-m/ (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/futuristic-high-density-m/)
1 myW per circuit output x 1000 circuits work = 1 mW

                                             x 1000000 circuits work = 1 Watt 


                                             x 1000000000 circuits work = 1 KWatt

We had here somebody in the forum whose claimed to have such a solution : Hardcastle/"quenco"



1 nano-full integrated- circuit as nano-drop= " dot" as liquid ink and the 3d roll-/print-on-demand technology


https://www.greenoptimistic.com/thermopower-wave-mit-20100309/ (https://www.greenoptimistic.com/thermopower-wave-mit-20100309/)  carbon/graphene nano tubes/channel

https://peswiki.com/directory:paull:thermodynamics  (https://peswiki.com/directory:paull:thermodynamics)
matter infrared wave emission

And what is with Neutrino?  ;D

https://www.google.com/search?q=neutrino+falle+st+bernhard+massiv&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-m (https://www.google.com/search?q=neutrino+falle+st+bernhard+massiv&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-m)
https://www.spektrum.de/magazin/blick-in-eine-neutrino-falle/1516461 (https://www.spektrum.de/magazin/blick-in-eine-neutrino-falle/1516461)"protoDune" as small neutrino trap version : 500 cube meters full with argon-gas
Cooling costs per month. ?  ???
This are such stupid and bad informed scientists, why they do not use a " neutrino energy foil" ,is it not, Sergh. ? ::) ;)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2d2h-SyPQqM (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2d2h-SyPQqM)
https://neutrino-wiki.de/ (https://neutrino-wiki.de/)
Upps(-ala),  a well known "Putzfrau/cleaning maid"-Affaere Prof. Dr.Guenther Krause as scientifical consultance  !
https://m.tagesspiegel.de/politik/casdorffs-agenda-guenther-krause-ist-ein-fall-tiefer-tragik/23684794.html (https://m.tagesspiegel.de/politik/casdorffs-agenda-guenther-krause-ist-ein-fall-tiefer-tragik/23684794.html)
https://www.ots.at/presseaussendung/OTS_20181217_OTS0005/energie-aus-neutrinos-ist-heute-messbare-realitaet (https://www.ots.at/presseaussendung/OTS_20181217_OTS0005/energie-aus-neutrinos-ist-heute-messbare-realitaet)
Somebody means unvisible radiation spectrum ~ neutrino ;D


Now in future Ex-"Infra red heater" gets the new commercial term  8) :

                                                    Neutrino- heater  :)
https://m.german.alibaba.com/goods/infrared-foil.html    2,5 US$/sqm "Neutrino-foil"from South-Korea  ::)


A wayback to " stupid science "- level  :P    :'( :
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=1&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20181113&CC=DE&NR=202018004708U1&KC=U1# (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=1&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20181113&CC=DE&NR=202018004708U1&KC=U1#)

http://translationportal.epo.org/emtp/translate/?ACTION=abstract-retrieval&COUNTRY=DE&ENGINE=google&FORMAT=docdb&KIND=U1&LOCALE=en_EP&NUMBER=202018004708&SRCLANG=DE&OPS=ops.epo.org/3.2&TRGLANG=en (http://translationportal.epo.org/emtp/translate/?ACTION=abstract-retrieval&COUNTRY=DE&ENGINE=google&FORMAT=docdb&KIND=U1&LOCALE=en_EP&NUMBER=202018004708&SRCLANG=DE&OPS=ops.epo.org/3.2&TRGLANG=en) 
                                           
http://translationportal.epo.org/emtp/translate/?ACTION=description-retrieval&COUNTRY=DE&ENGINE=google&FORMAT=docdb&KIND=U1&LOCALE=en_EP&NUMBER=202018004708&OPS=ops.epo.org/3.2&SRCLANG=de&TRGLANG=en (http://translationportal.epo.org/emtp/translate/?ACTION=description-retrieval&COUNTRY=DE&ENGINE=google&FORMAT=docdb&KIND=U1&LOCALE=en_EP&NUMBER=202018004708&OPS=ops.epo.org/3.2&SRCLANG=de&TRGLANG=en)

Quote from: lancaIV on November 13, 2019, 07:34:34 AM
This are such stupid and bad informed scientists, why they do not use a " neutrino energy foil" ,is it not, Sergh. ? ::) ;)

ich habe keine Ahnung in diese Richtung, aber..vielleicht etwas Neues aufgetaucht?I have no idea in that direction, but maybe something new has opened?
z.b.:
Coherent Recoil Detector

QuoteAt low energies, a neutrino can scatter from the entire nucleus of an atom, rather than the individual nucleons, in a process known as "Coherent Neutral Current Neutrino-Nucleus Elastic Scattering".[10] This effect has been used to make an extremely small neutrino detector.[11][12][13] Unlike most other detection methods, coherent scattering does not depend on the flavor of the neutrino.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutrino_detector

World's smallest neutrino detector finds big physics fingerprint

https://www.ornl.gov/news/worlds-smallest-neutrino-detector-finds-big-physics-fingerprint (https://www.ornl.gov/news/worlds-smallest-neutrino-detector-finds-big-physics-fingerprint)

   Guys:  8 years back I made dry crystal cells by filling an aluminum capacitor can with aquarium carbon, and used a carbon rod for the center electrode. That was by best cell. Why? because...
No electrolyte used, and sealed on top by epoxy, to keep the air out. This cell has run and run and run and run and run, and still runs. If I could only find it. It can also take in a charge, as well, but normally has about one volt at all times.   I used an oscillator  connected to a Tesla coil set up, powered by the cell. I was able to light an led wireless.
  The video was made by me, but was placed under my wife's name. YouTube uploading problems.   Please turn your volume all the way up to hear this better. 
   https://youtu.be/Xur_VChGdzE (https://youtu.be/Xur_VChGdzE)

Quote from: Sergh on November 13, 2019, 01:18:50 AM
Hello friends!
It is strange that the topic of obtaining energy from a neutrino flux is not present on the forum. Maybe I missed something? On the Internet, there is now a massive advertising campaign in this direction. These gentlemen promise to make Pi - electric car, that does not need to be charged.
I hope that the forum members from Germany could tell in more detail what is happening there.
October 8, 2019:
https://youtu.be/vTCNtI3DsQk?t=459 (https://youtu.be/vTCNtI3DsQk?t=459)

I know Jo Conrad and i think he is honest enough to not participate in any hoax... which does not necessarily mean that it isn't a hoax.

Mr. Schubart was involved in some cases of fraud in the past. Which doesn't prove that this is also a fraud, but we have to be careful.
I would not recommend investing any money unless i could test this stuff myself.

I don't think it has something to do with neutrinos. Also Mr. Schubart seems to relativize his claim when he says in the video that the neutrino has an energy of 1 ev and 60 billion of them are going through one cm2 every second. It's easy to calculate that this could only give some microwatts per square meter, even if 100% of the neutrino energy could be converted. He also contradicts himself by saying that the foil can be stacked but if it would absorb 100% of the neutrino energy this would not be possible.

So we can be almost 100% sure that it's NOT neutrino energy. Maybe it's something different. Or it's simply a scam.


It it's a scam i would like to know how they faked it. Because operating a LED from a small piece of very thin foil is not so easy to do.

Here are some guys who are trying to replicate it, although with no success yet:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a628YkCa2fs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a628YkCa2fs)

Quote from: NickZ on November 13, 2019, 09:11:31 AM
   Guys:  8 years back I made dry crystal cells by filling an aluminum capacitor can with aquarium carbon, and used a carbon rod for the center electrode. That was by best cell. Why? because...
No electrolyte used, and sealed on top by epoxy, to keep the air out. This cell has run and run and run and run and run, and still runs. If I could only find it. It can also take in a charge, as well, but normally has about one volt at all times.   I used an oscillator  connected to a Tesla coil set up, powered by the cell. I was able to light an led wireless.
  The video was made by me, but was placed under my wife's name. YouTube uploading problems.   Please turn your volume all the way up to hear this better. 
   https://youtu.be/Xur_VChGdzE (https://youtu.be/Xur_VChGdzE)

No electrolyte ?  What's the material between the aluminium and the carbon rod ?  How did you make it ?

1V and several mA for more than 8 years sounds not too bad.   :)

   NO electrlyte. Just air and sealed on top. The cells can be placed in series, for higher voltage.
Carbon does not oxidize, like metal does. Aluminum is cheap, or free.

Quote from: NickZ on November 13, 2019, 06:16:20 PM
   NO electrlyte. Just air and sealed on top. The cells can be placed in series, for higher voltage.
Carbon does not oxidize, like metal does. Aluminum is cheap, or free.

So you took an aluminium can, filled it with aquarium coal (that's also called 'activated coal' ?), then stuck a carbon rod into it, and that's all ?
No other materials (except of the epoxy for sealing) ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium%E2%80%93air_battery (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium%E2%80%93air_battery)

But an aluminium-air battery also uses electrolyte... so it's also a 100% galvanic cell.

BTW the aluminium is not free because the energy you get from it is the energy which has been used to produce the aluminium.
It's the reversal of the same chemical reaction.

   Of course you can use an electrolyte, for higher output, as well as a higher break down of the aluminum/Mg used.   Aluminum was or at least has been free, for me. Activated carbon can be at bit expensive, but worth using.   It was all fun, at one time...

Using like electrodes is one way to eliminate galvanic deterioration
This does not prevent oxidation in certain metals, and thus is not always the answer.


If the energy is coming from an outside source, due to physical properties
or is stored in the electrolyte itself,
Inert electrodes, (such as carbon rods used in the center of lead-acid batteries) are
the certain method to eliminate galvanic reactions as the source of potential.


outside radiation is almost inherently absorbed by spacing, or thickness of the layers.
as a multiple, equivalent, or fraction of specific wavelength(s).
in this manner, energy can enter into the cell and appear as potential on the terminals.
One such example is a non-polarized electrolytic capacitor
many of these are sized to available environmental radiation
and will "self charge" when placed across a high impedance


some electrolytes catalyze when a circuit is closed between the terminals.
These batteries are generally "chargeable".
Supplying an electric potential across the terminals will reverse the reaction.
These electrolytes are combination solutions. Containing multiple chemicals, or at least one
compound that releases energy when it breaks down and absorbs energy to facilitate recombination.
Molecular and ionic fuel cells operate by this principal.


There are other ways energy can enter into the cell, as well.


The first step is to eliminate electrode degradation.

Wie ein Dichter/Like a poet:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dpv99nvUtzY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dpv99nvUtzY)

It seams I have a perfect group of people here.


I have a question. It is complicated so I have to describe the model and then the question. This is fantasy land.


Ok, I have a PN layer. Classical electronics junction, diode stuff. Electrons are there hanging in between the 2 layers. In one usage we have a diode, flow of current to one direction only. If we add another PN layer some how there we can make a transistor.


Cool, great stuff.


Is it possible that we have a system similar to that of the above having electrons expelled out of that PN jail by an external force?




Question 2:  How can I calculate the possible composition of elements of chemicals by the differential voltage?


Fausto.

In most of your silicone based semiconductors :


Boron is used as the P-type dopant


While Phosphorus is generally the N

Quote from: plengo on November 15, 2019, 10:34:51 PM
Ok, I have a PN layer. Classical electronics junction, diode stuff. Electrons are there hanging in between the 2 layers. In one usage we have a diode, flow of current to one direction only. If we add another PN layer some how there we can make a transistor.
Is it possible that we have a system similar to that of the above having electrons expelled out of that PN jail by an external force?
Question 2:  How can I calculate the possible composition of elements of chemicals by the differential voltage?
Fausto.

Electrons are  expelled out by another electrons. Or pulled by "holes".  :-\
Your question is not entirely clear. Want to get free energy?
Search by keywords:
1. Detector diodes; Zero drop diodes; RF energy harvesting
2. Molecular Diodes; Molecular currents
3. Natural Background Radiation:   https://youtu.be/i1NMreOUo_k?t=210 (https://youtu.be/i1NMreOUo_k?t=210)
:-\

The molecular diode is perfect. Thank you. I knew you guys are good.

Quote from: Sergh on November 16, 2019, 01:29:40 AM
Electrons are  expelled out by another electrons. Or pulled by "holes".  :-\
Your question is not entirely clear. Want to get free energy?
Search by keywords:
1. Detector diodes; Zero drop diodes; RF energy harvesting
2. Molecular Diodes; Molecular currents
3. Natural Background Radiation:   https://youtu.be/i1NMreOUo_k?t=210 (https://youtu.be/i1NMreOUo_k?t=210)
:-\

Seems a Gold element might be useful for experiments
Molecular diodes ?
https://m.phys.org/news/2017-04-single-molecule-diode.html (https://m.phys.org/news/2017-04-single-molecule-diode.html)

Mg Nano layer deposited into a silicone diode layer
Covered with a single-atom (thick) gold lattice

Plengo, this was shared elsewhere by member Ansis
hope your New Year goes Great
Snip , Ansis quote Good morning!
I discover interesting thing relaited with old LiPo batteries!
Batteries about 10-15 years old, when they are lose capacity, is turning in to SuperCapacitors with capability to recharge themself. Of course energy density after "recharging" period of 12-20 houres drops down, but it is amayzing. My setup is made from 3 old+1 old, but not compleatly dead LiPo 18650.
I watch this YT video about quantum battery.
Very interesting.
https://youtu.be/7fM4e0cx5zU (https://youtu.be/7fM4e0cx5zU)
Thats all for now.
Yes, for better results 3 batteries must be dry and we must go and destroy elements by charging them with 25Hz DC impulses and Voltage must be around 9Volts and Voltage on the batteries in that moment must be 5V DC.
Good luck!end quote,
respectfully Chet K ,PS sorry if this info is old news or inappropriate for topic please remove if ??

Yes, don't throw away old LiPo 18650 batterys. This is interesting observation.
Old batteries can be used like SuperCaps.
Idea was, what can I do with "junk"?
I take 230V to 9V transformer and made simple charger with Schotky diode in between.
Then I destroy old batterys by big overcurrent.
Result was very surprising for me.
Thease broken batteries after sitting some time a side was self recharged.
Of course "capacity" is tiny, but if I take and add 1 not so dead cell it recharges in usefull state!
Interesting.
:)

a young lady from Brazil is making "cheap Electricity" You would like how she does this
Brazilian Student Creates Cheap Electricity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdoYb8vS3MA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdoYb8vS3MA) 

thanks to member MasterBlaster for the link
respectfully  Chet K

Her name : Kelly Schneider Moreira( Universidade Federal de Santa Maria /Universidade de Campino )
and she won 2019 "Premio Bernard Gross" (for the second time after 2017)
for this graphite + paper  research development ( + professor de fisica Thiago Burgo )"Hydroelectric generator based on nanostructured carbon and cellulose for energy harvesting devices "

"Com 10 discos de papel,com menos de 2,5 cm de diametro ,podemos gerar uma tensao de quase 5V,suficiente para ascender 30 LEDs ..."
patent applied !

http://docplayer.com.br/135760217-Universidade-federal-de-santa-maria-centro-de-ciencias-naturais-e-exatas-departamento-de-quimica-curso-de-quimica-bacharelado-kelly-schneider-moreira.html

Quote from: lancaIV on January 30, 2020, 08:32:36 AM
http://docplayer.com.br/135760217-Universidade-federal-de-santa-maria-centro-de-ciencias-naturais-e-exatas-departamento-de-quimica-curso-de-quimica-bacharelado-kelly-schneider-moreira.html (http://docplayer.com.br/135760217-Universidade-federal-de-santa-maria-centro-de-ciencias-naturais-e-exatas-departamento-de-quimica-curso-de-quimica-bacharelado-kelly-schneider-moreira.html)

It's not a battery. It's some sort of generator which converts mechanical energy to electrical output.

Can be useful for some applications, but it's not really new and certainly not 'overunity'.

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=pt&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ufsm.br%2Funidades-universitarias%2Fccne%2F2019%2F12%2F02%2Fmestranda-da-ufsm-ganha-premio-no-maior-congresso-de-materiais-do-brasil-coletando-energia-do-ar%2F (https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=pt&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ufsm.br%2Funidades-universitarias%2Fccne%2F2019%2F12%2F02%2Fmestranda-da-ufsm-ganha-premio-no-maior-congresso-de-materiais-do-brasil-coletando-energia-do-ar%2F)

".....  EVERY TEN SECONDS THE BATTERY RECHARGES.... "
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=pt&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fg1.globo.com%2Frs%2Frio-grande-do-sul%2Fnoticia%2F2019%2F12%2F14%2Fmestranda-da-universidade-federal-de-santa-maria-produz-energia-eletrica-com-vapor-papel-e-grafite.ghtml (https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=pt&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fg1.globo.com%2Frs%2Frio-grande-do-sul%2Fnoticia%2F2019%2F12%2F14%2Fmestranda-da-universidade-federal-de-santa-maria-produz-energia-eletrica-com-vapor-papel-e-grafite.ghtml)
It is a converter, it is a capacitive pump, it is......