Like many here, I have been studying the HES patents and following Solarlab's Lingen development from the beginning and I find the info he has presented quite convincing. As such I feel like I have at least a basic grasp of the requirements, enough to try a build anyway.
The stumbling block has been the cost risk for even a small proof of concept and my lack of skills with electronic circuits.
However, for awhile now I have had a 36 pole Samsung washing machine motor that I was going to experiment with. Last night it occurred to me that if the Lingen/HES method could be applied to it, it could be the solution to get past that stumbling block. The cost risk would be minimal and if successful it would be a budget way to have a stand alone generator that most here could afford to build.
The Samsung motor is a pretty good 3 phase generator right out of the box. 120V 3PH output is no problem. The stator phases are wired in Wye, 12 poles per phase. There are 12 magnets in the rotor, each with 4 poles oriented NSNS. Every stator coil is induced alternately NS as the rotor turns.
Here's what makes me think this build is feasible.
1: Each rotor magnet pole is surprisingly weak. It wouldn't take much in the way of wire and core material to equal the strength of a pole.
2: A 36 pole rotor, if divided into 4 sections, will fit diagonally across a 200mm x 200mm (8" x 8") printer build plate.
3: Rotor laminates can be printed with a thin 3 sided shell filled with polymer bonded iron powder. This will likely eliminate the need for expensive electrical steel and cutting. Depending on thickness, laminates stacked maybe 9 or 10 deep.
Taking inventory, I already have:
The Samsung 36 pole 3 phase stator wound with aluminum wire with a motor rating of 0.6HP, 310V, 2.5A.
Pure iron powder.
Know-how to turn the iron powder into laminates.
A good 3D printer and supplies.
An Eaton 24volt DC PLC with twelve DC inputs and four 24V DC 0.5A triac outputs.
The programming software and the knowledge to use it.
Decades of experience designing, programming and building industrial machine controls with these PLCs.
What I do not have is competent electronic circuit knowledge or real world experience building generators.
IF, after further discussion the project still seems feasible, if a couple of people who I feel are competent with electronic circuit design and or 3 phase / 1 phase generator knowledge will commit to join with me as active advisers I am willing to foot all of the cost and do the construction work to create a 100% transparent open source Samsung motor based generator project.
Do I have any volunteers? Send me a PM, or post here.
I have a box of about 4 of those washing machine PM motors from my days building windmills. Both Samsung and Fisher and Paykel. All 36 Pole models. Some of the older ones have 48 poles, but I don't have any of them. only 36 poles.
I will be watching and deciding if I will silently build along. Please post details as you build as I may want to mirror the efforts.
Great idea
Just so it gets more eyes ..?
Perhaps just post a link back to here in Holcomb topics
at both forums where Solarlab has shared?
Very nice indeed !
Will also reach out to possible assets needed!
Respectfully
Chet
Ps
Jimboot ( moderator) could possibly post a link to this replication discussion thread in first post of Holcomb topic here ?
PPs
IMO
A dedicated moderated build topic here would help expedite progress once decision is made to move forward!
Here is a good resource with info on these 36 pole stators and some modifications. Staggering multiple stators, rewiring, 7 phase config, decogging, etc..
Lots of kool electronic stuff too. Even a plan to build a gauss meter..
https://www.thebackshed.com/windmill/Contents.asp#3
(the page is about the F&P Smartdrive- but the Samsung should be pretty much the same.)
Interesting. It'd be helpful to know SL's progress. But I'm not allowed to ask him. Regarding these posts here, I'll throw out a few comments.
Cogging is irrelevant since there are no PMs and no physical motion.
Powdered iron would be a mistake, IMO. Holcomb's claimed "energy source" is electrical steel. Powdered iron is significantly different in metallurgy and physical structure like grain size vs domain size compared to cold rolled sheet steel.
You could consider using the wound stator as is, sequencing the coils to give a RMF, but only use a sector of rotor (stationary in this case), say around 45°, 60° or 90° to save cost and effort reducing time to test.
bi
bistander,
Please stop now. I'm you asking you nicely. Don't pollute this thread like you have the other Holcomb threads.
Your post is unhelpful, irrelevant, and has one false statement, likely deliberate. The claimed gain is from the alignment of the magnetic domains of iron, as I believe you well know. If you really don't understand the subject...
Educate yourself.
Quote from: Cadman on February 11, 2023, 11:58:45 PM
bistander,
Please stop now. I'm you asking you nicely. Don't pollute this thread like you have the other Holcomb threads.
Your post is unhelpful, irrelevant, and has one false statement, likely deliberate. The claimed gain is from the alignment of the magnetic domains of iron, as I believe you well know. If you really don't understand the subject...
Educate yourself.
Hello cadman,
It is not me, but others who are the cause of difficulty.
And the domains are different between finely powdered iron and cold rolled steel. That's exactly my point. Has Holcomb used powdered iron? And if you're attempting to replicate his device/technology, might it not be good not to deviate in the basic claimed energy source/mechanism?
Take or leave my comments as you wish. I'll post where I feel like doing so. Through private messages I know a number of members do find information and opinions from me helpful.
Carry on and good luck.
bi
{edit to add reference}
QuoteSome empirically obtained relationships have been obtained, for
example the coercive field is usually considered to be inversely proportional to the grain
diameter, d, [8-13]. However, there is not unanimity in this relation and the inverse of square
root of d fits well too [14, 15]. The strong correlation between grain size and magnetic
properties is believed to be due to magnetic domain structure and domain wall motion being
affected by grain boundaries [16] because grain boundaries can be considered as obstacles to
magnetic domain wall motion [17-19]
Modelling the Effect of Ferrite
Grain Size on Magnetic Properties
Lei ZHOU
Thanks for your help and input ramset and floodrod.
Towards the feasibility of this build.
The stock stator phases are connected like this first image. This image also shows one section of what I have in mind for the iron powder rotor lamination.
These connections are unsuitable for this build because the HES excitation method rolls the magnetic field across multiple rotor coils of the same polarity in a wave. This was confirmed and demonstrated by SL's CAE preliminary analysis here.
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4261.msg98977#msg98977
See: Bf-Zxmid-Cont_HES_LinGen_4Coil-ST37_4msON-Time_1ms_SeqLO_01.gif
This roll or wave is the very thing that makes it work where similar builds do not, IMHO.
For any particular group of coils we need to roll the field across them in a first wave of one polarity immediately followed by a wave of the second polarity. This info is taken from one of the HES patents.
So this is the first hurdle towards feasibility:
How can we accomplish this with a minimum of parts and expense?
I have a vague idea of using the PLC's 4 outputs for the required timing sequence, but an Arduino might be easier to use for this. The actual inputs to the coils would be handled by mosfets, perhaps in a half bridge configuration.
I don't recall any mention in the patents of a configuration that uses less than 4 same pole coils in a series. Please correct me if this isn't true.
With that in mind we could connect the stator coil phases as shown in the second image?
I need some experienced input here. Do you think this would be the best way forward?
Thank you for your time and consideration.
bistander,
This is why your comments about the properties of magnetic steel are irrelevant.
Please read https://overunity.com/19375/serious-hes-derivative-project-proposal/msg574064/#msg574064 and consider this project's goals before posting.
QuoteHere's what makes me think this build is feasible.
1: Each rotor magnet pole is surprisingly weak. It wouldn't take much in the way of wire and core material to equal the strength of a pole.
I already know from previous experiments that powdered iron has sufficient magnetic gain to be a viable candidate for this project, up to at least 400Hz.
Build tests will confirm one way or another.
I am still hoping for suggestions and ideas regarding my previous post.Thank you
Quote from: Cadman on February 12, 2023, 10:46:18 AM
bistander,
This is why your comments about the properties of magnetic steel are irrelevant.
Please read https://overunity.com/19375/serious-hes-derivative-project-proposal/msg574064/#msg574064 and consider this project's goals before posting.
I already know from previous experiments that powdered iron has sufficient magnetic gain to be a viable candidate for this project, up to at least 400Hz.
Build tests will confirm one way or another.
I am still hoping for suggestions and ideas regarding my previous post.
Thank you
Hi Cadman,
By "magnetic gain", I presume you mean magnetic permeability, correct? BTW, besides these Holcomb threads, I don't see or can't find articles or definitions stating magnetic permeability is magnetic gain. You might say that is petty, but I actually think it is a core issue. However, let's put that aside.
You say the magnets from the washer motor rotor are weak. No doubt they are compared to neo. There is a large mass of magnet in that motor which needs to be low cost. Other design reasons also dictate that choice of field. But that doesn't mean one should use weak field for a HES replication. In fact, in this case, it will be the the excitation of the coils on the stator teeth (or poles, as some call them) that determine the magnetic field. So the permeability of the material used in the rest of the magnetic circuit needs to be compatible with that used in the existing stator. Powdered iron may be suitable in that respect.
But I suspect that permeability isn't all that is involved with drawing energy from the magnetic domain alignments, as you put it. As I attempted to discuss with SL, the hysteresis characteristics could play a big role. And it is those characteristics, like H
c, which will be affected by the material choice, ie. powdered iron vs cold rolled silicon sheet steel (electrical steel, which Dr. Holcomb mentioned specifically). My opinion is to stick as close as possible to what he did. You, or anybody else, can do whatever.
What is wrong or irrelevant or false about what I've just said?
bi
Bistander,
Ok you've made your point. Enough already. If we were trying to squeeze every last joule out of it, there never has been any doubt that electrical steel is better, and I couldn't care less where Dr. Holcomb claims the energy comes from.
Quote from: Cadman on February 12, 2023, 08:55:12 AM
I have a vague idea of using the PLC's 4 outputs for the required timing sequence, but an Arduino might be easier to use for this. The actual inputs to the coils would be handled by mosfets, perhaps in a half bridge configuration.
It's buried somewhere early on in the HES thread, but basically I stated using a clock chip,
a shift register chip, four half bridge drivers and a bipolar power source. As simple as it
can get. Wire it up, turn it on, and let'r run. Let me dig a little and see if I can find my
post.
Perhaps a 3PH generator is a bit too involved to start with? This image is a possibility. A stator setup like this would be similar to 4 Lingens. We would lose the benefits of 3 phases and drop 4 coils from the stator, but at this point all we are shooting for is a viable method with minimal parts.
Quote from: Dog-One on February 12, 2023, 12:52:11 PM
It's buried somewhere early on in the HES thread, but basically I stated using a clock chip,
a shift register chip, four half bridge drivers and a bipolar power source. As simple as it
can get. Wire it up, turn it on, and let'r run. Let me dig a little and see if I can find my
post.
Thank you sir.
Quote from: Cadman on February 12, 2023, 12:54:00 PM
Thank you sir.
Found it!
https://overunity.com/19222/maybe-possible-idea-for-duplicating-effect-of-holcomb-and-others/msg571050/#msg571050 (https://overunity.com/19222/maybe-possible-idea-for-duplicating-effect-of-holcomb-and-others/msg571050/#msg571050)
I'm a computer embedded systems guy, but I hate overkill when it's not necessary. ;)
Quote from: Cadman on February 12, 2023, 12:52:56 PM
Perhaps a 3PH generator is a bit too involved to start with? This image is a possibility. A stator setup like this would be similar to 4 Lingens. We would lose the benefits of 3 phases and drop 4 coils from the stator, but at this point all we are shooting for is a viable method with minimal parts.
My statement may hold no bearing, but attached is the Holcomb magnetic domain image that they use. It shows divisible by 2.
Nine poles would give three phases nicely, but the magnetic domains would not be divisible by 2, thus forcing two same polarities to be next to each other.
Three-phase should also be possible using six poles. Six groups of six poles to make three phases that are divisible by two. But then it deviates from Holcomb's image in that we have opposite polarities on either side from each other, where his image shows like poles on either side.
If we wish to duplicate Holcomb's exact alignment with this rotor, I think our option would be four groups of nine coils. This would give us a duplication of his image where we have four polarities, and the two across from each other are alike. But then we lose a phase.
Does all this matter? I don't know. Does he use a deceptive image to hide something, I don't know. These are just my observations though
Quote from: Cadman on February 12, 2023, 12:51:47 PM
Bistander,
Ok you've made your point. Enough already. If we were trying to squeeze every last joule out of it, there never has been any doubt that electrical steel is better, and I couldn't care less where Dr. Holcomb claims the energy comes from.
Hi Cadman,
So you're not worried about H
c , but B
sat may have a direct bearing on magnetic performance. That is the saturation flux density of the material. Have you any idea of the value for the powdered Fe bonded mixture you intend to use? It could be 50% or less than that of the electrical steel in the stator. Knowing this ahead of time will allow you to compensate with the design of the shape of the rotor laminate, as you call it. Specifically to make the rotor tooth width sufficiently larger than the width of the stator tooth. Not the tooth tip, but the tooth body width. The other "tight spot" in the rotor portion of the magnetic circuit would be the back iron. Because of the circular area aspect, more real estate is available outside the air gap so features can be thicker (to reduce flux density) without sacrifice of too much winding space. This also will make the parts more ridgid and easier to fabricate and wind.
Take it or leave it. Easier to move a line on the drawing than to remake the part.
bi
Quote from: floodrod on February 12, 2023, 01:37:12 PM
My statement may hold no bearing, but attached is the Holcomb magnetic domain image that they use. It shows divisible by 2.
Nine poles would give three phases nicely, but the magnetic domains would not be divisible by 2, thus forcing two same polarities to be next to each other.
Three-phase should also be possible using six poles. Six groups of six poles to make three phases that are divisible by two. But then it deviates from Holcomb's image in that we have opposite polarities on either side from each other, where his image shows like poles on either side.
If we wish to duplicate Holcomb's exact alignment with this rotor, I think our option would be four groups of nine coils. This would give us a duplication of his image where we have four polarities, and the two across from each other are alike. But then we lose the three phases.
Does all this matter? I don't know. Does he use a deceptive image to hide something, I don't know. These are just my observations though
Thanks for that. I was thinking the number of 3 phase coils had to be divisible by 3.
See, I told you I didn't know anything about 3 phase motor building. ;D
Quote from: bistander on February 12, 2023, 02:53:09 PM
Hi Cadman,
So you're not worried about Hc , but Bsat may have a direct bearing on magnetic performance. That is the saturation flux density of the material. Have you any idea of the value for the powdered Fe bonded mixture you intend to use? It could be 50% or less than that of the electrical steel in the stator. Knowing this ahead of time will allow you to compensate with the design of the shape of the rotor laminate, as you call it. Specifically to make the rotor tooth width sufficiently larger than the width of the stator tooth. Not the tooth tip, but the tooth body width. The other "tight spot" in the rotor portion of the magnetic circuit would be the back iron. Because of the circular area aspect, more real estate is available outside the air gap so features can be thicker (to reduce flux density) without sacrifice of too much winding space. This also will make the parts more ridgid and easier to fabricate and wind.
Take it or leave it. Easier to move a line on the drawing than to remake the part.
bi
Thank you bistander, :)
I have no real idea what the B
sat of the laminate will be ahead of time. I just assumed for a starting point the cross section of the rotor teeth and back iron would need to be close to twice the section of the stator teeth as I can get just to make the permeability better match the stator electrical steel. Working with the powdered iron is going to take some trial and error. There's no way around that when it can't be calculated ahead of time.
It will never be as good as electrical steel but I do know the remanence is much lower than A36 and 1008 low carbon steel, and I believe the coercivity is too.
Who knows, we may get lucky on the first try.
Quote from: Cadman on February 12, 2023, 05:57:57 PM
Thanks for that. I was thinking the number of 3 phase coils had to be divisible by 3.
See, I told you I didn't know anything about 3 phase motor building. ;D
I assume we have 3 criteria's:
1. 3 phase preferably
2. Like polarities opposite from each other as the holcolmb image
3. And even pole number so we can properly alternate polarities without having 2 polarities next to each other.
Then I think the only configuration that works with a 36 pole stator is 3 coils in series per pole. 12 poles.
Then 4 poles would connect together per phase.
If we want to do opposite poles across from each other- there is other options. I just don't understand all the dynamics yet..
On a side note- Cadman- when you get time-can you explain the pickup part as you envision it? I have been reading the Holcolmb thread somewhat, but so many ideas and predictions have been pitched I would like to hear your breakdown and plan.
@Cadman
Sorry a bit off topic...
you made the following remark...
QuoteKnow-how to turn the iron powder into laminates.
I was looking to create a pure magnetic motor that requires a moderate/high permeability, low conductivity steel rotor. I was thinking of using a simple resin-iron powder mix in a mold.
What you said tweaked my interest, are you able to provide links to the technique you are suggesting it may assist me in my endeavours
Quote from: Dog-One on February 12, 2023, 12:52:11 PM
It's buried somewhere early on in the HES thread, but basically I stated using a clock chip,
a shift register chip, four half bridge drivers and a bipolar power source. As simple as it
can get. Wire it up, turn it on, and let'r run. Let me dig a little and see if I can find my
post.
That's certainly far less expensive than a PLC! I've downloaded the datasheets for the flip-flop and the counter and I'm studying the circuit.
I have some questions about it but I'm short on time, so if you don't mind answering them I'll post them as soon as I can.
Thanks again.
Quote from: floodrod on February 12, 2023, 06:35:27 PM
I assume we have 3 criteria's:
1. 3 phase preferably
2. Like polarities opposite from each other as the holcolmb image
3. And even pole number so we can properly alternate polarities without having 2 polarities next to each other.
Then I think the only configuration that works with a 36 pole stator is 3 coils in series per pole. 12 poles.
Then 4 poles would connect together per phase.
If we want to do opposite poles across from each other- there is other options. I just don't understand all the dynamics yet..
On a side note- Cadman- when you get time-can you explain the pickup part as you envision it? I have been reading the Holcolmb thread somewhat, but so many ideas and predictions have been pitched I would like to hear your breakdown and plan.
floodrod,
I think you laid that out nicely.
I have hopes of ending up with a 3 phase or maybe even a 6 phase, eventually. But since this all a shot in the dark at this point I'm leaning toward the 32 coil setup I last posted. Why? Because it would be the quickest way to see if the rolling fields will be viable for producing a decent output. Also it will keep the costs to a bare minimum since it would only need 4 outputs to the rotor coils. You know, start small and work our way up.
There is plenty of room in the interior of the stator to place a proto-board with 36 wire terminal pairs on it. That way the coils could be connected and reconnected to come up with any configuration imaginable.
On a different note....
The stator I have is wound with aluminum wire so once the existing coil connections are cut there's no going back to a rotating generator. If this project gets off the ground, which is looking more and more likely, I'll get another stator to modify.
QuoteOn a side note- Cadman- when you get time-can you explain the pickup part as you envision it?
I'm sorry, I don't understand what you you mean by 'the pickup part'. Can you clarify that please?
I'll be happy to try to explain anything can.
Quote from: CuriousChris on February 12, 2023, 07:23:03 PM
@Cadman
Sorry a bit off topic...
you made the following remark...
I was looking to create a pure magnetic motor that requires a moderate/high permeability, low conductivity steel rotor. I was thinking of using a simple resin-iron powder mix in a mold.
What you said tweaked my interest, are you able to provide links to the technique you are suggesting it may assist me in my endeavours
The permeability of the polymer bonded powdered iron is inferior to electrical steels. And it's nothing at all like a powdered ferrite that has been bonded and sintered.
The main reason I use it is because it's almost pure soft iron.
That being said, the technique is my own. It's just the powder poured into a mold, the polymer added, and then it's compressed with a weight until it's dry. Heating it to 200F in an old counter top oven for 30 minutes (depends on the thickness) with the weight on it will cure the polymer.
Quote from: Cadman on February 12, 2023, 10:05:27 PM
floodrod,
I think you laid that out nicely.
I have hopes of ending up with a 3 phase or maybe even a 6 phase, eventually. But since this all a shot in the dark at this point I'm leaning toward the 32 coil setup I last posted. Why? Because it would be the quickest way to see if the rolling fields will be viable for producing a decent output. Also it will keep the costs to a bare minimum since it would only need 4 outputs to the rotor coils. You know, start small and work our way up.
There is plenty of room in the interior of the stator to place a proto-board with 36 wire terminal pairs on it. That way the coils could be connected and reconnected to come up with any configuration imaginable.
On a different note....
The stator I have is wound with aluminum wire so once the existing coil connections are cut there's no going back to a rotating generator. If this project gets off the ground, which is looking more and more likely, I'll get another stator to modify.
I'm sorry, I don't understand what you you mean by 'the pickup part'. Can you clarify that please?
I'll be happy to try to explain anything can.
Gotcha...
Regarding the pickup-coil question, I guess I don't understand the concept fully. I thought this was similar to Pierre's build of rotating magnetic fields. And in his, I see what appears to be a pickup coil right in the center of the stator. I assumed the rotating magnetic fields get amplified by the core steel / iron and inducts a pickup coil in some manner.
I guess his build is completely different. I will need to read more on it to grasp the concept before I can be of any help here.
I see. That's a 2 pole rotor in Pierre's setup. Just like in some regular generator heads
I have to work 12 hour days this week so I won't have much time to spend on this project.
I need to come up with some graphics to better explain what I have in mind instead of just assuming interested people understand it already.
Here are some links that Solarlab provided. If you can find a couple of hours to look at the posts it will help with understanding what I'm getting at. His animated gifs are really helpful.
If you take a 90 degree section of my 32 coil stator drawing that has 8 coils in it and think of it as SL's Lingen I think you'll see. His excitation coils are on the bottom, mine are outside of the stator.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Initial thoughts (applications, etc. 2022-04-05):
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4261.msg98375#msg98375
Patent link (initial target patent):
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4261.msg98509#msg98509
Preliminary field roll tests:
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4261.msg98891#msg98891
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4261.msg98892#msg98892
Magnetic Field Gain simulation tests:
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4261.msg98900#msg98900
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4261.msg98901#msg98901
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4261.msg98908#msg98908
Flat Solid-State Rotor WO 2018 134233 Holcomb:
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4261.msg98965#msg98965
Simulation Configuration (various and corrected timing?):
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4261.msg98965#msg98965
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4261.msg98977#msg98977
Timing:
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4261.msg99028#msg99028
Brassboard and CAE results:
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4261.msg99112#msg99112
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4261.msg99113#msg99113
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4261.msg99114#msg99114
ADDED by me (Cadman): https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4261.msg98977#msg98977
See Bf-ZXmid-Cont_HES_LinGen_4Coil-ST37_4msON-Time_1ms_SeqLO_01.gif
Quote from: Cadman on February 12, 2023, 10:18:46 PM
That being said, the technique is my own. It's just the powder poured into a mold, the polymer added, and then it's compressed with a weight until it's dry. Heating it to 200F in an old counter top oven for 30 minutes (depends on the thickness) with the weight on it will cure the polymer.
Thanks, very similar to what I was intending. At least I know I am on the right track.
Hello Dog-One,
Regarding your HES Driver Board Rev: 1B
Firstly, is the shape of the output wave forms the same as this timing image, and is it continuous as long as power is applied?
I think I understand most of the circuit but I can't figure out how the counter-oscillator operates.
In the second image below:
I'm assuming the offsets for coils 2, 3, and 4 are multiples of the offset of coil 1. Correct?
How do we control or change the offsets, on time, and period depicted in the attached timing image?
Also, is the offset, on time, and period static or dynamic during run time?
I sure would appreciate some help to understand this.
Quote from: Cadman on February 13, 2023, 11:40:11 PM
Firstly, is the shape of the output wave forms the same as this timing image, and is it continuous as long as power is applied?
Unfortunately not. My circuit ALWAYS energizes a coil, either positive or negative
polarity. It does NOT have a neutral/off position, also known as tri-state outputs.
It does run continuous yes.
Quote from: Cadman on February 13, 2023, 11:40:11 PM
I think I understand most of the circuit but I can't figure out how the counter-oscillator operates.
In the second image below:
I'm assuming the offsets for coils 2, 3, and 4 are multiples of the offset of coil 1. Correct?
How do we control or change the offsets, on time, and period depicted in the attached timing image?
Also, is the offset, on time, and period static or dynamic during run time?
I sure would appreciate some help to understand this.
The oscillator chip is both an oscillator and clock divider making it much easier to
dial-in the frequency you want. You simply pick a single output and feed that to
the shift register chip. They call it a ripple counter which is basically just a bunch
of divide by two blocks. So the further down the string you are, the more divisions
of the initial oscillator frequency you get.
That link to my earlier post has a video depicting its operation driving LEDs.
If instead of LEDs, you were driving half-bridges with a bipolar power source,
when the LED was on, you would get one polarity and when the LED was off,
you would get the opposite polarity.
I designed this little circuit based on what I saw in Holcomb's patent and
the way he described the timing. For SL's LinGen, this may not be appropriate--
not really sure what he is doing with his micro-controller. If SL is sweeping
back-n-forth instead of just going in one direction as you would with a circular
set of coils, my circuit would need some changes.
Don't you think that there is a fundamental difference between the sinusoidal three-phase voltage that we have from the outlet. And the one that we get with the help of mosfets, relays, switching with brushes and a collector, and so on (meandr) ? And they behave in the stator a little differently. Even from my frequency converter for asynchronous PWM motors, the
signal is not quite clean. One smart person from Odessa pointed this out to me.
Thanks Dog-One,
Even if your circuit doesn't output the wave form in my picture it's helpful and informative now that you've made it more clear to me. The timing diagram that SL posted from one of the patents shows all pulses in the positive direction, but there is also a polarity changer involved that changes the polarity sent to the coils. In SL's timing diagram from the patent, the polarity change is shown as lighter gray lines in the pulse train. That's easy to miss unless the patents are really studied like SL did.
The Lingen pulse train sweeps in one direction. The pulse train left to right starts at coil 1 and ends at coil 4. All 4 pulses are pulsed with the same polarity current. Then you are at the end of the period shown in the diagram. Current polarity swaps, then the pulse train to the same 4 coils repeats left to right with that opposite polarity. Repeat 4 pos, 4 neg in a loop as long as desired. And this one set of pulse trains can be used to signal or supply multiple Lingens too.
The offset between the trains to each coil is there to help roll the magnetic field across the 4 coils. It could be a percentage of the period and vary with the pulse frequency, or everything could be set for a single frequency.
I'm going to build your circuit as it is and maybe try to come up with a way to modify it for adjustable offsets etc. With my skill level that will probably end in failure though. But, the components are easily affordable.
Of course you, or anyone else, are more than welcome to come up with that circuit yourself, ... hint hint :) ...
Quote from: kolbacict on February 14, 2023, 03:16:51 AM
Don't you think that there is a fundamental difference between the sinusoidal three-phase voltage that we have from the outlet. And the one that we get with the help of mosfets, relays, switching with brushes and a collector, and so on (meandr) ? And they behave in the stator a little differently. Even from my frequency converter for asynchronous PWM motors, the
signal is not quite clean. One smart person from Odessa pointed this out to me.
Hi kolbacict,
Yes, you know there's a big difference. SL based his Lingen mostly from the HES cell phone generator/charger, which is for a DC output.
I think it also happens to be the starting point for the excitation of the HES stand alone generators. I'll bet you've read that their generation process starts with a relatively insignificant magnetic field, so that would be from a relatively small supply of current. That current is used to successively increase the output in other windings until it's kilowatts. Holcomb also states that his generators can output currents of any phase, so there has to be a whole lot more to their circuitry from the start.
In hopes of making my vision of this generator more clear. This is for the starting point of the project. Hopefully, better more advanced configurations will follow.
Quote from: Cadman on February 14, 2023, 07:40:56 AM
... The timing diagram that SL posted from one of the patents shows all pulses in the positive direction, ...
Hi Cadman,
Can you post that timing diagram or link to post where SL showed it? I've been through Holcomb's patents/applications and it appeared he was always using North-off-South-off-North-off-South- -- and so on sequencing. Certainly when 3-phase mains are used for exciting the RMF, it swings N to S to N to S to N and so on.
Regarding the configuration of the 36 stator coils, I haven't seen suggested, but think you should consider using 6 or 12 poles. When 6 poles, each pole face has 6 teeth and coils, when 12 poles, each pole face has 3 teeth and coils. That way no individual teeth/coils go unused and there will be no discontinuities when you populate the entire circumference with your powdered Fe sectors. Take or leave.
bi
Hi Bistander,
I posted the link here yesterday but here it is again https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4261.msg99028#msg99028
The only reasoning I have for the 32 coil setup is that it allows for a 4 pulse driver (fewer components and matches the PLC I already have) and is more relatable to the 8 coil Lingen. It's a place to start, and I was hoping that making it as easy as possible would encourage more good people to participate and help get the project off the ground. I realize the output will likely have to be rectified and the ripple smoothed out. I really would like to have 3 phase output, even if it has imperfect sine waves. But that's tabled for later unless someone donates a driver schematic for one up front that I could easily build.
I really do appreciate your expert suggestions and input. Very helpful, thank you.
Quote from: Cadman on February 14, 2023, 10:09:54 PM
Hi Bistander,
I posted the link here yesterday but here it is again https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4261.msg99028#msg99028
...
Thanks Cadman,
That gif vector diagram is from: http://www.ece.umn.edu/users/riaz/animations/sinvec.html
posted by Listener192 back on page 10 or 11.
The other diagram is from SL and contains some images from WO 2018/134233 A2. The timing sequence shown on it I believe is SL's handiwork derived from description found on pages 17 & 18 of the WO document. So I read that again, and it does appear to excite the coils only North or only South. And has the 4 North coils sequenced for an 8 second period then followed by an 8 second off period. To me, it's unclear how this produces a "rolling" or traveling magnetic flux "wave" similar to the RMF found in 3-phase machines. The patent refers to pulsing flux. But it is what it is.
Also I noticed when I read the next page or two, Holcomb described using a frequency generator and PLC to fire the sequencing fet's.
bi
I'll have to study this some more. Something is not quite making sense.
There are eight timing intervals for a complete cycle. We have a positive
polarity or off. The other choice is we have a positive polarity or a negative
polarity. I see nothing to indicate we can have positive, negative and off
all within a single cycle. If that be the case, then my driver should work
just fine for this application.
Quote from: bistander on February 15, 2023, 01:01:49 AM
To me, it's unclear how this produces a "rolling" or traveling magnetic flux "wave" similar to the RMF found in 3-phase machines. The patent refers to pulsing flux. But it is what it is.
The way I see this is each coil that is energized adds to the total flux
saturation in that region.
Single Polarity:All off -- 0%
One on, three off -- 25%
Two on, two off, 50%
Three on, one off, 75%
All four on, 100%
For bipolar it's this way:All negative -- 100% S-N
Three negative, one positive -- 50% S-N
Two negative, two positive -- 0%
One negative, three positive -- 50% N-S
All positive -- 100% N-S
The degree of regional flux saturation is what mimics the rotor position
relative to the stator poles. That's my thinking anyway.
Hi guys,
Watch this gif animation here. It's important.
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4261.msg98977#msg98977
This one Bf-ZXmid-Cont_HES_LinGen_4Coil-ST37_4msON-Time_1ms_SeqLO_01.gif
SL's Lingen is based on Holcomb's patent WO 2018134233 Fixed Planar Generator, which is designed for DC output and uses lap wound generating coils. The important aspect for our project is the method to produce that rolling wave excitation.
This Samung stator isn't lap wound and generates best with an alternating NS magnetic field.
We already know that simply pulsing the 'rotor' coils with a single polarity or NS isn't good enough.
The takeaway is that it will take an actual moving field to succeed.
Again WO 2018134233 Fixed Planar Generator does not use alternating NS excitation.
___________
Enter Patent 11336134B2 SOLID STATE MULTI-POLE AND UNI-POLE ELECTRIC GENERATOR ROTOR FOR AC / DC ELECTRIC GENERATORS
See SUMMARY, section 4
"and wires are wound around each salient pole piece such that when the wires of the plurality of salient pole pieces are sequentially excited by an excitation circuit , the salient pole pieces are energized to provide a moving polar magnetic field in the form of distinct magnetic poles as desired to accomplish power generation"
See DETAILED DESCRIPTION, section 18
"Pole circuits may be excited with a first polarity DC power current in a first cycle and the second polarity DC power current in a second cycle. The first and second cycles make up one AC cycle every 16.667 milliseconds in the case of a 60 Hz current ... The excitation wave progresses clockwise which distorts each pole as it is forming , which pushes the magnetic flux in a progressive clockwise fashion by the repelling flux of the preceding poles. This in effect constantly pushes discrete separated magnetic poles in a clockwise circular fashion ..."
This project will require, "a first polarity DC power current in a first cycle and the second polarity DC power current in a second cycle" and obviously a polarity change is performed between those two cycles. And that is why we need to introduce a polarity change in the timing diagram taken from patent WO 2018134233.
Again, this project is not to duplicate a HES generator of any kind. It only uses the HES method above to obtain a moving, 'rolling' excitation wave.
I hope it's all clear for everyone now :)
Quote from: Cadman on February 15, 2023, 08:28:14 AM
Hi guys,
Watch this gif animation here. It's important.
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4261.msg98977#msg98977
This one Bf-ZXmid-Cont_HES_LinGen_4Coil-ST37_4msON-Time_1ms_SeqLO_01.gif
SL's Lingen is based on Holcomb's patent WO 2018134233 Fixed Planar Generator, which is designed for DC output and uses lap wound generating coils. The important aspect for our project is the method to produce that rolling wave excitation.
This Samung stator isn't lap wound and generates best with an alternating NS magnetic field.
We already know that simply pulsing the 'rotor' coils with a single polarity or NS isn't good enough.
The takeaway is that it will take an actual moving field to succeed.
Again WO 2018134233 Fixed Planar Generator does not use alternating NS excitation.
___________
Enter Patent 11336134B2 SOLID STATE MULTI-POLE AND UNI-POLE ELECTRIC GENERATOR ROTOR FOR AC / DC ELECTRIC GENERATORS
See SUMMARY, section 4
"and wires are wound around each salient pole piece such that when the wires of the plurality of salient pole pieces are sequentially excited by an excitation circuit , the salient pole pieces are energized to provide a moving polar magnetic field in the form of distinct magnetic poles as desired to accomplish power generation"
See DETAILED DESCRIPTION, section 18
"Pole circuits may be excited with a first polarity DC power current in a first cycle and the second polarity DC power current in a second cycle. The first and second cycles make up one AC cycle every 16.667 milliseconds in the case of a 60 Hz current ... The excitation wave progresses clockwise which distorts each pole as it is forming , which pushes the magnetic flux in a progressive clockwise fashion by the repelling flux of the preceding poles. This in effect constantly pushes discrete separated magnetic poles in a clockwise circular fashion ..."
This project will require, "a first polarity DC power current in a first cycle and the second polarity DC power current in a second cycle" and obviously a polarity change is performed between those two cycles. And that is why we need to introduce a polarity change in the timing diagram taken from patent WO 2018134233.
Again, this project is not to duplicate a HES generator of any kind. It only uses the HES method above to obtain a moving, 'rolling' excitation wave.
I hope it's all clear for everyone now :)
Hi Cadman,
Thanks for the last paragraph. I was thinking you were attempting to replicate Holcomb method in this regard.
Is it possible, or practical/feasible, to excite your 36 coil stator with a 3-phase source, like a VFD? I think you could connect the coils in such a way as to get a decent RMF.
Has anyone else noticed in those animations of flux on the LinGen, only half of the magnetic structure is shown?
bi
Rotation of the magnetic field in a three-phase stator on the screen of a kinescope from a TV.
This is much better than using an oscilloscope tube.
In this video, a sinusoidal current filtered from higher harmonics is fed to the stator.
https://youtu.be/WyXYwZmHzgo (https://youtu.be/WyXYwZmHzgo)
And in this video, a three-phase current supplied from a frequency converter, unfiltered from higher harmonics.
See the difference...
https://youtu.be/jww9Hyhh9G0 (https://youtu.be/jww9Hyhh9G0)
p.s. Very bad camera. The good camera in my phone broke. It would be much better.
Quote from: bistander on February 15, 2023, 09:29:28 AM
Hi Cadman,
...
Is it possible, or practical/feasible, to excite your 36 coil stator with a 3-phase source, like a VFD? I think you could connect the coils in such a way as to get a decent RMF.
...
bi
A VFD? Sure, that would be a fine 3PH supply for bench tests, and I happen to have one.
But, can you power it up to a run state when you're without utility power or any means to feed it the AC it needs? The same question applies to any bench power supply or anything else that needs to be fed mains AC.
Now if someone donated a simple circuit that would take DC from a 5-6 volt or 10-12 volt battery and output a usable 3 phase AC sine then that would be wonderful.
I think I already said that somewhereWe can have a battery or some other means of DC current to start it up. That's both a limitation and requirement for this project. Maybe unspoken, but that along with self running and a usable wattage output is the end goal.
kolbacict,
Nicely done, it does demonstrate rotation. Filtering likely would help round out the hex, but I wonder how much that is you needed. Is it a 6 pole stator?
bi
Quote from: Cadman on February 15, 2023, 12:14:54 PM
A VFD? Sure, that would be a fine 3PH supply for bench tests, and I happen to have one.
But, can you power it up to a run state when you're without utility power or any means to feed it the AC it needs? The same question applies to any bench power supply or anything else that needs to be fed mains AC.
Now if someone donated a simple circuit that would take DC from a 5-6 volt or 10-12 volt battery and output a usable 3 phase AC sine then that would be wonderful. I think I already said that somewhere
We can have a battery or some other means of DC current to start it up. That's both a limitation and requirement for this project. Maybe unspoken, but that along with self running and a usable wattage output is the end goal.
Hi Cadman,
Sure, I've used a number of different VFDs on DC (battery) supplies. Commerical VFDs consist of a rectifier, DC link, and inverter. It's typically easy to connect directly to the DC link. Of course a 230 VAC VFD requires ~312 VDC (some can go low as 130VDC). Then you can set the output 3-phase voltage & frequency where you want. But remember your washer motor was for 220V, right? Wonder what the actual coil voltage was.
It might be possible to hack a VFD to lower voltage input, but I've not seen it. I do know there are 3-phase VFDs made for single phase inputs, 110VAC, I think. I've got a standard 3/4kW model where I put a voltage doubler on its rectifier so I can use it in my shop/lab to power induction motors from single phase 110.
As far as your eventual output voltage, that will depend on the turns and coil connections of your armature. (I'm calling the stator the field and the powdered Fe sectors the armature) If you can rectify your output to 200-300VDC, you could certainly use it for a VFD input.
It's easy for me to think the VFD is best because I've got one on the shelf and could have it running in short order. But it's your baby and do what works for you.
bi
ps. Just remembered there are 3-phase motor drives made for low voltage inputs. They are used on battery powered industrial vehicles and golf carts. Even for RC models and probably drones.
Quote from: bistander on February 15, 2023, 02:10:53 PM
Just remembered there are 3-phase motor drives made for low voltage inputs. They are used on battery powered industrial vehicles and golf carts. Even for RC models and probably drones.
Yeap. Take your pick:
https://kellycontroller.com/product-category/kelly-motor-controllers/sinusoidal-brushless/ (https://kellycontroller.com/product-category/kelly-motor-controllers/sinusoidal-brushless/)
I have a 24 volt golf cart unit that does not require hall effect sensors.
Worked great for what I used it for.
Quote from: kolbacict on February 15, 2023, 09:58:05 AM
And in this video, a three-phase current supplied from a frequency converter, unfiltered from higher harmonics.
See the difference...
https://youtu.be/jww9Hyhh9G0 (https://youtu.be/jww9Hyhh9G0)
p.s. Very bad camera. The good camera in my phone broke. It would be much better.
Hi kolbacict,
I see the difference. Good job. Another beer for you.
bi
Hi guys,
Regarding using a VFD powered by DC we need to see what the actual signal looks like. Here is a video I did and posted in my thread about a moving virtual magnetic field.
https://rumble.com/v1hh4ux-driving-an-alternator-with-rc-speed-controller.html
If you watch that video you will see that my RC speed controller worked great to drive an alternator as a motor. BUT the pseudo sine wave is actually generated by PWM modulation and did not work well for induction. So depending on whether or not the output is actually a sine wave a VDF may or may not be a good idea.
Great work guys. I am following along but will only comment if I feel I have something useful to add.
Carroll
Quote from: citfta on February 15, 2023, 02:51:39 PM
Hi guys,
Regarding using a VFD powered by DC we need to see what the actual signal looks like. Here is a video I did and posted in my thread about a moving virtual magnetic field.
https://rumble.com/v1hh4ux-driving-an-alternator-with-rc-speed-controller.html
If you watch that video you will see that my RC speed controller worked great to drive an alternator as a motor. BUT the pseudo sine wave is actually generated by PWM modulation and did not work well for induction. So depending on whether or not the output is actually a sine wave a VDF may or may not be a good idea.
Great work guys. I am following along but will only comment if I feel I have something useful to add.
Carroll
Hi citfta,
Nice demo. Thanks. Of course VFDs use PWM to synthesize sinusoidal waveforms. The voltage will always appear as pulses. But the current is considerably smoother, especially if filters are used or the coils are of high enough inductance. kolbacict's videos show the effects of filters.
The other distinction noted is the RC motor driver has no buss capacitor, that I am aware. The larger VFDs have considerable capacitance directly on or adjacent to the switch bridge. That could be a factor.
What signal was displaying on the scope?
And when you say it didn't work well for induction, what do you mean, or what did you measure to arrive at that conclusion? As in running the former alternator as an induction motor, perhaps?
bi
Hello Bi,
The signal on the scope was the signal going to one of the 3 legs of the y connected alternator. As you could see it worked pretty well as a motor. But when I stopped the rotor to try and draw current from the slip rings as I had done earlier the output from the slip rings was pretty low. So I concluded that was not a good signal for inducing power into the locked rotor from a virtual rotating magnetic field.
Take care,
Carroll
Quote from: citfta on February 15, 2023, 04:12:16 PM
Hello Bi,
The signal on the scope was the signal going to one of the 3 legs of the y connected alternator. As you could see it worked pretty well as a motor. But when I stopped the rotor to try and draw current from the slip rings as I had done earlier the output from the slip rings was pretty low. So I concluded that was not a good signal for inducing power into the locked rotor from a virtual rotating magnetic field.
Take care,
Carroll
Thanks for quick reply. I don't think I'd expect induction into the concentric field coil of a Lundell rotor, even if you used a true sinusoidal 3-phase. Kind of a different animal.
Can you reference or link back to what you did previously?
bi
Hi again Bi,
You're getting forgetful. We had this discussion a few months ago. But here is the video I posted before in the other thread showing the induction into the rotor of the alternator.
https://ugetube.com/watch/OTyaKIHaevI6co9
You can go back to the general builders section and look for the thread called " possible idea for virtual magnetic field" to refresh your memory.
Carroll
Quote from: citfta on February 15, 2023, 05:12:50 PM
Hi again Bi,
You're getting forgetful. We had this discussion a few months ago. But here is the video I posted before in the other thread showing the induction into the rotor of the alternator.
https://ugetube.com/watch/OTyaKIHaevI6co9
You can go back to the general builders section and look for the thread called " possible idea for virtual magnetic field" to refresh your memory.
Carroll
You're right citfta, forgetfulness comes along with age. Thanks for the memory jog. I recall now. But rotation with slip rings open circuit meant the rotor iron had induced current and behaved as an induction motor. I'm still having trouble visualizing how that causes varying flux thru the rotor core in the center of the field coil. Getting too off-topic. Might have to scavenge and play with an old car alternator.
bi
Quote from: citfta on February 15, 2023, 02:51:39 PM
Regarding using a VFD powered by DC we need to see what the actual signal looks like. Here is a video I did and posted in my thread about a moving virtual magnetic field.
I look from my VFD this. I hoped to see something better.
something more like sinus. Do you see the same?
Quote from: kolbacict on February 16, 2023, 04:52:59 AM
I look from my VFD this. I hoped to see something better.
something more like sinus. Do you see the same?
Yet it seemed to produce the RMF.
I see much different PWM with the VFDs that I've scoped. They use a carrier frequency in range of 2 to 20 kHz, or pulses per second.
bi
https://electrical-engineering-portal.com/download-center/books-and-guides/automation-control/induction-motors-pwm-frequency-inverters
Yes you are right. Here is my oscillogram from the current shunt of one of the phases.
p.s. Who deletes my messages here, it's not easy for me to write them in English. >:( :(
It costs you nothing to write thousands.
How kind you are.
Further to a previous post regarding one Controller approach. This is presented again in
a bit more detail since some experimenters might find it of value as their projects reach a
point where a versatile controller is needed and a "quick to assemble" device might be
handy. [No programming knowledge or experience is required]
Controller Development (simplified explaination) Preliminary Rev 0.1 12Sep22
For probably less than $30us a 3 Phase (3 wire - 120deg) or 4 Phase (4 wire - any configuration)
controller can be easily fabricated. It's quite versatile such that a variety of Sequencing and Timing
configurations are available to be tried out when driving a device.
See the attached document for more details, etc.
SL
Attached (pdf):
Thanks for the PDF SL. The videos were very good! Is that you in the videos you linked to? I have some experience programming a picaxe and an arduino so the videos were pretty easy to follow but I can see where they would be very good for someone with no experience in using micro-processors. The explanations were very clear and even with my experience I learned a few things. Thanks for posting that helpful information.
Carroll
Outstandingly helpful information SL!
Watched the first 4 videos and that was all it took to convince me. I'll take in the other videos later.
I've already downloaded the latest 3 versions of STM32CubeIDE (for Linux, YAY) along with some docs and ordered a couple of NUCLEOF446RE boards from Mouser.
I can't thank you enough for this
Sincerely
Cadman
Hi Cadman,
Don't want to derail the thread but what version of Linux do you use? I have been exclusively on Linux for about 1 and 1/2 years now. I started with Zorin OS but for the past year have been on LM 20.3. I'll never go back to Windoze. Once you get the hang of it Linux is so much better!
Take care,
Carroll
Quote from: citfta on February 18, 2023, 11:48:41 AM
Hi Cadman,
Don't want to derail the thread but what version of Linux do you use? I have been exclusively on Linux for about 1 and 1/2 years now. I started with Zorin OS but for the past year have been on LM 20.3. I'll never go back to Windoze. Once you get the hang of it Linux is so much better!
Take care,
Carroll
Hi Carroll,
lsb_release -a returns Linux Mint 19 Tara.
I haven't had time to perform a proper install but it looks super simple. BTW I almost always make a copy of the whole drive before installing any software that's not in the officai repositories.
Download the release you want, unzip it and run sudo filename.sh command on it and follow the further instructions provided through the console window.. There's an installation guide, but that's really all there is to it.
Gotta run.
Hi Fellows,
Glad to hear this driver approach might be of some value - hey, it is kinda of fun anyway!
NOTE: If you go with Spences "Driver-MOSFET Boards" don't forget to add the "Transistor" with an
included "Driver" found at the bottom of the order configuration column. Can add a few dollars but
gets the speed up there.
Just make sure you check the processor output and driver input specs (Output Port configuration, etc.
and Driver input levels, etc.).
Spence has some good information of his page as well re: Drivers, FETS, etc..
(He's a good guy - a hacker for the most part, like us! But a good 4 Channel device at a good price.)
https://www.tindie.com/products/drazzy/4-channel-mosfet-board-with-optional-driver/#product-description (https://www.tindie.com/products/drazzy/4-channel-mosfet-board-with-optional-driver/#product-description)
I found the connectors and heat sinks were good value for the price as well, but you probably won't need them.
Major (rediculous) price increases for the Littlefuse SiC's and TI SiC drivers forced me to look for something else.
Revisiting Soft Metal Compounds (powdered metal)
Also, looking into a way to make the Rotor/Stator from Powdered SMC - from the fab house it's about $800 per pair
when machined (and a custom mold is way too expensive just for testing different SMC blends).
Found some 950MPa rated bolts and nuts that might provide a good - done-by-hand - mold technique [simple flat
steel plates, seperated by bar stock (pole seperators) and bolted together such that 800MPa (Hoganas Somaloy 1P
or 3P optimum compaction about 800MPa, or whatever) can be applied using just a torque wrench and elbow
grease]. Anyway, we shall see.
The Laser Cut thin metal laminations works OK but there are "way too many" pieces when doing it manually,
and it's a very slow and tedious process. Good for trying different metals but it will take a very long time to complete
these tests.
Anyway, back to work - have a good one!
SL
Revised and updated LinGen CONTROLLER pdf attached.
SL
Thanks again SL,
A quick update on progress:
Installed the IDE and ordered a mosfet board.
Finished the design for the rotor laminate and getting ready to print 4 of them to see how well they fit the stator.
Things are finally moving toward the start of construction on this end.
The prints fit well, no mods needed.
It takes an hour and 10 minutes to print one. 5 down and 31 more to go. :o
Also picked up a couple more motors off Ebay today.
Are you guys starting to believe I'm serious yet?
Have a good day everyone.
Got some information from a person (not public) who decided to reproduce Holcomb's patent in miniature. I gave him advice and my vision of how the generator works. The guy already has a control unit with software and the corresponding cores are machined. If I have more information about the results of this experiment, I will definitely inform you. The guy follows the usual logic and I like it.
Sincerely yours.
A small photo collage (https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj5DUuRwPXC_kCFP0iKjbXLfHjYx6Fm6Hq4okcL1wq7PInjInIirAPlE9T4YSCaer_uOk-IwVVEvN3XkmaIf90L008ACpv52UXsotEhWobm21B0BrHJ2eUpTry4guI0BMb8o7BTEsqNzusmCeVSRJcNWHPEN_Ss93AGZ9S489Oh6J8Q3OYDgU4gMB5v/s1408/2023-02-17_094239.jpg)
A Synchronous homopolar Generator shows excactly all parts of a HES, the only changement is that the axle needs to be blocked and fixed.
This kind of Generator has coils instead of permanent magnets
It has an outer static stator with moving magnetic field which can be controled in the speed
It has an inner Rotor only by coils and only wiring needs to be changed.
Could this be not helpful ? By using this we do not need to construct any arduino, because everything is ready. :o
What do you think ?
Quote from: rakarskiy on February 22, 2023, 03:10:51 AM
Got some information from a person (not public) who decided to reproduce Holcomb's patent in miniature. I gave him advice and my vision of how the generator works. The guy already has a control unit with software and the corresponding cores are machined. If I have more information about the results of this experiment, I will definitely inform you. The guy follows the usual logic and I like it.
Sincerely yours.
A small photo collage (https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj5DUuRwPXC_kCFP0iKjbXLfHjYx6Fm6Hq4okcL1wq7PInjInIirAPlE9T4YSCaer_uOk-IwVVEvN3XkmaIf90L008ACpv52UXsotEhWobm21B0BrHJ2eUpTry4guI0BMb8o7BTEsqNzusmCeVSRJcNWHPEN_Ss93AGZ9S489Oh6J8Q3OYDgU4gMB5v/s1408/2023-02-17_094239.jpg)
Thanks mate. Is your book still coming? Are they photos of his work? Love to know more about his cores. That is the biggest barrier for open source builders atm I think.
Quote from: Cadman on February 21, 2023, 12:22:43 PM
The prints fit well, no mods needed.
It takes an hour and 10 minutes to print one. 5 down and 31 more to go. :o
Also picked up a couple more motors off Ebay today.
Are you guys starting to believe I'm serious yet?
Have a good day everyone.
Because of your work it was so hard to drive past an F&P washing machine left for recycle, my wife was with me though and I already have to many rotors and stators. :) Thanks for sharing your progress.
Quote from: skybiker63 on February 22, 2023, 04:23:08 AM
A Synchronous homopolar Generator shows excactly all parts of a HES, the only changement is that the axle needs to be blocked and fixed.
This kind of Generator has coils instead of permanent magnets
It has an outer static stator with moving magnetic field which can be controled in the speed
It has an inner Rotor only by coils and only wiring needs to be changed.
Could this be not helpful ? By using this we do not need to construct any arduino, because everything is ready. :o
What do you think ?
Hi
This has already been discussed at length in the other threads. It will generate, no doubt about it but there's no need to continue the discussion here, at least not yet. I would love to have a self sustaining 3 phase output but the time for debate is over, it's time to build.
Quote from: Jimboot on February 22, 2023, 04:29:15 AM
Thanks mate. Is your book still coming? Are they photos of his work? Love to know more about his cores. That is the biggest barrier for open source builders atm I think.
...
Hi Jimboot,
Wouldn't it be grand if we all had the resources to build something like rakarskiy showed? I'm with you, the steel laminates are the biggest barrier.
If this project succeeds then I think the same methods may work with generator heads and even automotive alternators too.
Speaking of laminates, while holding the stacked laminate forms in my hand and looking at them, I thought of a better and easier way to make the core. I stopped the printing for now while I explore this new method a little more.
QuoteBecause of your work it was so hard to drive past an F&P washing machine left for recycle, my wife was with me though and I already have to many rotors and stators. :) Thanks for sharing your progress.
I'm kind of envious. Where I live we're not allowed to set appliances like that out for recycle pick up. If we were I would probably turn into a hoarder and my house into a scrap yard. :)
Cheers everyone
Great work Fellas! Won't interupt - but thought this was an important
heads-up Caution!
F.Y.I.
LinGen "HIGH VOLTAGE CAUTION"
Just thought this Warning should be posted!
SL
To push this project forward and get usable results an electric motor company who is doing this job for very long time will support us now.
Everything could be manufactured only contact me and I will transfer it, after finishing we will send the testing results.
We need a professional way to get professional results.
By my opinion this technology is not as fancy as everone thinks at the moment
As this technology allready worked 1908 we should be able to get it running in short time.
We've done this before with 3 layers. The middle layer was the generator and 1 and 3 received. The coils are ferrite of course.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOwg-W88W-U
Each coil generated one half of a pure sine wave. The project was very difficult because generating a pure sine wave divided into sections requires controlling each coil individually if we want to have a magnetic field movement as shown in the video. It can be done on Arduino but the generation rate for the channels will be no more than 100Hz. Of course, it all depends on how smooth the sine wave is. I did it only on a mosfet because when using a different coil there are feedbacks and it can not be done so easily. I couldn't, that's why each coil has separate control and controls. This is done on the STM32F4Discovery. It's really very hard when you start from scratch. We have made many different variants for this solution.
Quote from: skybiker63 on February 23, 2023, 03:12:34 AM
To push this project forward and get usable results an electric motor company who is doing this job for very long time will support us now.
Everything could be manufactured only contact me and I will transfer it, after finishing we will send the testing results.
We need a professional way to get professional results.
By my opinion this technology is not as fancy as everone thinks at the moment
As this technology allready worked 1908 we should be able to get it running in short time.
Thanks skybiker63,
Well, there is still a bit of engineering, compliance testing and proper marketing to be done - takes time as
I'm sure you know.
Many applications yet to be explored - both large and small scale.
You will appreciate there are scores of entities capable of doing this type of suff; but it's a bit more complicated
than just selecting a motor manufacuring company.
Thanks for your interest; we'll put your group in the "Q". Not trying to be dismissive but lots going on at the moment.
Have good day, and the project will, and, is moving forward.
SL
Quote from: r2fpl on February 23, 2023, 04:00:35 AM
We've done this before with 3 layers. The middle layer was the generator and 1 and 3 received. The coils are ferrite of course.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOwg-W88W-U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOwg-W88W-U)
Each coil generated one half of a pure sine wave. The project was very difficult because generating a pure sine wave divided into sections requires controlling each coil individually if we want to have a magnetic field movement as shown in the video. It can be done on Arduino but the generation rate for the channels will be no more than 100Hz. Of course, it all depends on how smooth the sine wave is. I did it only on a mosfet because when using a different coil there are feedbacks and it can not be done so easily. I couldn't, that's why each coil has separate control and controls. This is done on the STM32F4Discovery. It's really very hard when you start from scratch. We have made many different variants for this solution.
r2fpl,
Nice, very nice - yea, many variables for sure - "tong-in-cheek" - looks like you hammer the hell out of it on the
input side. Step it a bit and see what happens - not all "electrical metals" are created equal - some have a "sweetspot" from what I've observed.
Pulse it with a good rise time (dv/dt) - sine wave inputs don't give good result IMHO! Hey, looks like your doing great!
If you run out of input power; capture some of it back with a Flyback scheme. Anyway, worth looking at.
Great video BTW!
SL
I've done it in many ways. Variable frequency, power, square wave too. Every variant I could think of. It's similar to Clemente Figuera if you have a big imagination.
pic: There is no more energy here. Why would there be more? What's so significant here?
Quote from: r2fpl on February 23, 2023, 04:40:38 AM
I've done it in many ways. Variable frequency, power, square wave too. Every variant I could think of. It's similar to Clemente Figuera if you have a big imagination.
pic: There is no more energy here. Why would there be more? What's so significant here?
Hi r2fpl,
Nice work. Your video loads but fails to play on this device. I'll try it elsewhere. You say 3 layers. Is there a photo showing them, perhaps without the wood frame?
bi
{edit} rebooted Android device and she plays fine. Good job!!!!
and thanks for answer below
Quote from: bistander on February 23, 2023, 06:38:45 AM
Hi r2fpl,
Nice work. Your video loads but fails to play on this device. I'll try it elsewhere. You say 3 layers. Is there a photo showing them, perhaps without the wood frame?
bi
I don't know why the video isn't showing up for you. Maybe it's a YT problem or maybe you have limitations. I do not know that.
All layers are 100% identical. Only on the 2nd middle layer there is an additional winding that was used to measure the oscilloscope and receive energy but also to generate it. Just all the options on the table.
The video is playing fine for me. It also looks great! I really like the way you found for displaying the moving magnetic field.
Carroll
Quote from: r2fpl on February 23, 2023, 04:40:38 AM
I've done it in many ways. Variable frequency, power, square wave too. Every variant I could think of. It's similar to Clemente Figuera if you have a big imagination.
pic: There is no more energy here. Why would there be more? What's so significant here?
r2fpl,
Do a review/analysis of your device's "Magnetic Circuit." Also consider the material "B-H Curve"
optimal operating points when configuring/setting the Input Signal. Good luck!
To answer your last question you should study the detailed LinGen information that's been
presented previously - many times.
Regards,
SL
You're right. Sometimes one detail changes everything or many do nothing. One difference is the reception method which is different. Maybe it's this detail, but I'd have to run the whole device to check it. I wish it worked but I know how much time I wasted. I know dozens of such projects and none of them is true in the good results.
For now, I do not know what would convince me to return to this concept of the device. Maybe someone wants to do it too.
Hi guys,
This is definitely a better way way to make the laminated cores than what I started to do.
Much thinner PLA separators between the iron layers and between the core and coil wire. The separating layers are down to 0.013" and the thickness of the mold casing is right at 0.020".
The idea is to put down a single layer at a time followed by a separator, compress and cure ... repeat.
It takes about 4 hours to print a mold section for the Samsung rotor core but you only need 4 of them for this. The separating layers take right at 12 minutes each and don't have to be trimmed or anything. Ready to use as soon as they cool.
In one of the images below the light blue-green is on separator sitting at the top of the core mold.
Much easier.
Quote from: r2fpl on February 23, 2023, 01:54:52 PM
You're right. Sometimes one detail changes everything or many do nothing. One difference is the reception method which is different. Maybe it's this detail, but I'd have to run the whole device to check it. I wish it worked but I know how much time I wasted. I know dozens of such projects and none of them is true in the good results.
For now, I do not know what would convince me to return to this concept of the device. Maybe someone wants to do it too.
r2fpl,
Sorry to hear you are giving up on this device.
Should you ever decide to return to this concept of the device using an Analytical (mathematical)
design and analysis or a Numerical approach I've attached a pdf file that you may find of interest.
Sometimes a little up-front engineering work can save a lot of time and expense. Having analyzed
dozens of so called FE discoveries; this is only one of two that showed great promise and has actually
worked out so far.
Anyway; the first recommendation is to find access to a professional CAE Suite (school couse, etc.),
or try an Analytical analysis (using your favourite math program, or whatever). The attached file
might provide some insight and guidance as you engineer the solution.
The first five chapters are generic with respect to developing most devices of similar structure,
including the LinGen. The remaining chapters are specific to designing a "Fault Current Limiter" but
still contain some useful magnetic circuit information.
Both Analytics (Math) and Numbeics (CAE) are covered. Modern CAE has developed quite a bit with
the addition of GUI's, etc. since this writing. Taken from notes of an old COMSOL course.
It's quite comprehensive and well done IMHO. Provides some good reference material as well.
This concludes my contributions and presentations regarding the analysis, development and design of
a specific embodiment found in one of the Holcomb patents.
SL
Just a quick update.
Casting the laminates has been problematic so far. The polymer I have used for smaller laminates is not strong enough for these large ones with such narrow sections and they are cracking when even slightly flexed.
I'm switching to a two part fiberglass resin now and hopefully that will solve the problem.
Laminate experiments continue. Up 'til now I've only managed to keep from reducing the density too much below the 2.52 g/cm3 apparent density of the loose powder.
I may have found the ideal composite powder for DIY though, ATOMET EM-1. If I can purchase small quantities and also figure out an economical way to compress it to about 420 MPa. That pressure would give it a density about 6.8 g/cm3 which is better than ferrite.
Its most attractive feature for DIY is that it cures in 30 minutes at 200 C. No expensive kiln needed.
The fiberglass resin works well and pops right out of the waxed PLA mold.
The best casting so far has a density of 3.66 g/cm3, including the resin. This is with the IRON100 powder and 6mm thickness.
It's totally non-conductive so I'll keep lowering the resin ratio as far as practical. Right now it's 50/50.
I was checking out by own experiment.
The current of generator rotor don't change,not increase,nor decrease if change RPM or value of load. From the load current, only the load on the motor changes. ;)
Quote from: Cadman on March 15, 2023, 03:23:19 PM
Laminate experiments continue. Up 'til now I've only managed to keep from reducing the density too much below the 2.52 g/cm3 apparent density of the loose powder.
I may have found the ideal composite powder for DIY though, ATOMET EM-1. If I can purchase small quantities and also figure out an economical way to compress it to about 420 MPa. That pressure would give it a density about 6.8 g/cm3 which is better than ferrite.
Its most attractive feature for DIY is that it cures in 30 minutes at 200 C. No expensive kiln needed.
Hi Cadman,
Great information/discovery -
THANKS X 1K...
Finally found some time to revisit SMC's.
ATOMET EM-1 by QMC (Quebec Metal Products) Rio Tinto
is quite exciting to say the least; plus it's a Canadian company. Their web site contains so much
information and documentation it will take a while to digest but it's the best I've ran accross so far.
Haven't checked the pricing and availability yet, that's still a TO-DO. Compression might be easier
than first anticipated by just using an inner mold (3D Printed as you did) with AL bar side supports
and AL bolted Top and Bottom plates. Lots of ideas to sort through.
LinGen design is easy however. Thought about using "Machinable Wax" as a re-usable Mold but will
have to check the compression limits, etc. Many advantages if it works.
Anyway, thanks again. Take care and good luck!
SL
Quote from: Cadman on March 27, 2023, 12:01:11 PM
The fiberglass resin works well and pops right out of the waxed PLA mold.
The best casting so far has a density of 3.66 g/cm3, including the resin. This is with the IRON100 powder and 6mm thickness.
It's totally non-conductive so I'll keep lowering the resin ratio as far as practical. Right now it's 50/50.
Thanks Cadman for the update. I'm still fabricating when I can work is keeping me busy. Your updates are helpful and appreciated.
Hi SL,
THANKS X 1K right back at ya..
I just happened to have a casting and mold in front of me when I saw your post and it gave me an idea.
You know, this iron/resin casting is pretty strong stuff, even at 50/50 ratio, and it's machinable.
I'm going to print PLA molds for a punch and die set, cast a pair, and attach a thick mild steel base to each. Grade 8 bolts & nuts to apply the pressure.
I think there's a good chance this will work since the part I'm compressing is small and only a few mm thick.
Hey Jimboot,
I'm in the same boat. 60+ hrs every week is a PITA.
Hi Cadman,
If you don't mind - can you share where you got the powder, etc. and the cost?
No problem if you can't but thought I'd ask. You can PM me if you are concerned
with the possibility of some interference with your sources, etc. TIA
SL
Quote from: SolarLab on March 31, 2023, 01:47:46 PM
Hi Cadman,
If you don't mind - can you share where you got the powder, etc. and the cost?
No problem if you can't but thought I'd ask. You can PM me if you are concerned
with the possibility of some interference with your sources, etc. TIA
SL
Sure, glad to. They are in New Jersey and have several types of powders.
https://sciencekitstore.com/metals/iron-powders/
These are the two I chose to start with.
IRON100 10lbs for $54.00
https://sciencekitstore.com/iron-powder/
SM101 5lbs for $65.00
https://sciencekitstore.com/soft-magnetic-iron-powder/
They were delivered in heavy plastic bags inside of quart size cans, boxed of course. Fast delivery too.
Cadman
PS the calculated weight for my Samsung outer rotor iron is ~6.3 lb
Quote from: Cadman on March 31, 2023, 05:15:48 PM
Sure, glad to. They are in New Jersey and have several types of powders.
https://sciencekitstore.com/metals/iron-powders/ (https://sciencekitstore.com/metals/iron-powders/)
These are the two I chose to start with.
IRON100 10lbs for $54.00
https://sciencekitstore.com/iron-powder/ (https://sciencekitstore.com/iron-powder/)
SM101 5lbs for $65.00
https://sciencekitstore.com/soft-magnetic-iron-powder/ (https://sciencekitstore.com/soft-magnetic-iron-powder/)
They were delivered in heavy plastic bags inside of quart size cans, boxed of course. Fast delivery too.
Cadman
PS the calculated weight for my Samsung outer rotor iron is ~6.3 lb
Thanks again Cadman.
Just backed-off a $10K MOPA Laser purchase (wanted to speed up the
lamination cutting process) - to focus on the SMC powder forming
approach again.
Found 50 Ton hydralic cylinders on Amazon (~$100) so two of those
(opposing) should be more than adequate for >800MPa compression.
Put my CNC Mill to work machining molds and $10K worth materials
hopefully will yield better bang for the buck?
More versatile as well - thin metal sheets are only cheap in ton rolls,
therefore a bag of iron powder at 10 lbs at $50 makes more sense!
Oh - gotta go - big black snake just went into the greenhouse...
SL
Compression Mold Idea
Here's a bit of detail regarding the "Compression Mold Idea."
Links are found in the pdf attachment.
SL
Here's a 30 Ton heated hydraulic press ($1399us) 30 tsi ~ 463 MPa [?]
https://www.amazon.com/Ton-Lab-Heat-Plate-Machine/dp/B09C7JDRJ2?ref_=ast_sto_dp (https://www.amazon.com/Ton-Lab-Heat-Plate-Machine/dp/B09C7JDRJ2?ref_=ast_sto_dp)
Or, a 50 Ton manual Bottle Hydraulic Jack ($99us)
- Search: "XtremepowerUS 50-Ton Capacity Hydraulic Bottle Jack Automotive Low Profile Shop Axle Jack
Hoist Lift / Red" [url is too long]
[/url]
Quote from: SolarLab on April 01, 2023, 04:30:56 PM
Compression Mold Idea
Here's a bit of detail regarding the "Compression Mold Idea."
Links are found in the pdf attachment.
SL
Here's a 30 Ton heated hydraulic press ($1399us) 30 tsi ~ 463 MPa [?]
https://www.amazon.com/Ton-Lab-Heat-Plate-Machine/dp/B09C7JDRJ2?ref_=ast_sto_dp (https://www.amazon.com/Ton-Lab-Heat-Plate-Machine/dp/B09C7JDRJ2?ref_=ast_sto_dp)
Or, a 50 Ton manual Bottle Hydraulic Jack ($99us)
- Search: "XtremepowerUS 50-Ton Capacity Hydraulic Bottle Jack Automotive Low Profile Shop Axle Jack
Hoist Lift / Red" [url is too long]
Be careful there it's easy to fool yourself. The tonnage rating of a hyd press is the total piston force or hyd pressure x piston area. Then you divide that by the square surface area of the part being compressed to arrive at the compression force applied to the part, either psi or Mpa. Without looking it up I think 1 MPa is about 145 psi. 400 Mpa is ~58000 psi.
So for example, if you're compressing a part with 2 square inches of surface with a 400 Mpa press you're only applying 200 Mpa or 29000 psi to the part.
If you're thinking about making a hydraulic press, leverage can be your friend.
Quote from: Cadman on April 01, 2023, 06:47:17 PM
Be careful there it's easy to fool yourself. The tonnage rating of a hyd press is the total piston force or hyd pressure x piston area. Then you divide that by the square surface area of the part being compressed to arrive at the compression force applied to the part, either psi or Mpa. Without looking it up I think 1 MPa is about 145 psi. 400 Mpa is ~58000 psi.
So for example, if you're compressing a part with 2 square inches of surface with a 400 Mpa press you're only applying 200 Mpa or 29000 psi to the part.
If you're thinking about making a hydraulic press, leverage can be your friend.
Cadman,
You're correct - 1 MPa = 145 psi, however I used "tsi (tons per square inch) - but not sure if I know what I'm doing!
However, I did not account for the area since that will vary - so the whole thing is better done in Solidworks Mech.
Some of the SMC papers talk about a 60 Ton Press for 800 MPa, but it's not well explained.
BTW, the strongest bolts I could find are Metric rated 12.2 at about 9500 MPa (again ?). Still working it...
In the "Convert" I used "tsi" or "tons per square inch" and MPa. It comes out to 1 tsi = 13.6 MPa or 30 tsi = 410.9 MPa.
Not sure if that's correct however; so I'd better do a bit more study! Anyway; I'd like to convert MPa to Tons to get a
ballpark figure to use between the "powdered SMC" spec sheets and the "Hydraulic Cylinder" requirement. From memory
I think it was around something like a 50 Ton hydraulic jack should give about a bit less than 800 MPa.
Trouble is I have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to compression pressures and conversions (?).
SL
Quote from: SolarLab on April 01, 2023, 04:30:56 PM
https://www.amazon.com/Ton-Lab-Heat-Plate-Machine/dp/B09C7JDRJ2?ref_=ast_sto_dp (https://www.amazon.com/Ton-Lab-Heat-Plate-Machine/dp/B09C7JDRJ2?ref_=ast_sto_dp)
[url is too long]
A quick tip for Amazon URLs...
You can remove most of the URL except the /dp/XXXXXXXXX part and
the link will take you straight to it. An example for the above would be:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09C7JDRJ2 (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09C7JDRJ2)
SL,
Maybe this will help. Apologies in advance for the simplistic wording.
You have a hyd cyl (press) rated at 50 tons. Just imagine that as a big block of steel that weighs 50 tons. That's all there is to it at this point, you have 50 tons to work with.
Underneath that you place your punch and dies. The punch, which is the shape and area of your part, has a punch face surface area of 2 sq. in. Then you lower your 50 ton weight onto the punch. The punch face will have a distributed pressure of 25 tons per sq in, or 50,000 psi, or ~345 Mpa.
We're talking about a thin flat part so just divide the punch surface area by the press pressure to get the compression force on the SMC powder.
Hi all,
You might consider this approach to getting useable cores for first attempt prototypes which I've used recently. I am just experimenting with behavior of "wires in grooves" as member rakarskiy would say, or coils in slots to satisfy my own interpretation of theory. My investigation is on going but indications so far don't surprise me. Anyway, for your consideration, I'll attach a photo of my fixture. Made from sawing and grinding an old MOT, uWave Oven Transformer. For a piece of scrape, it turned out pretty good in my opinion. It does not heat at all, coils do occasionally. A second portion of the core fits on top for the tests. Good luck.
bi
Dog One - Thanks, good tip.
Cadman - Great explaination, thanks. Really helps a lot. Looks like my "Convert" conversions
are correct which makes "ball park" figuring significantly easier and understandable!
BTW - Just purchased the 30 Ton press in the above link; should be here Thursday. Their engineer
claims it's overbuilt but how much he didn't want to say. I'll reverse-engineer it in Solidworks
when it arrives. Hey, who knows! Maybe easily upgraded to 60 Ton with some major added support?
Bistander - nice work, curious as to how it will work out.
For Ref: A few fellows in Nigeria (Tech School) built a 40 Ton press for about $400us and
documented it (attached pdf). It's quite good since they included all the calculations.
SL
Quote from: SolarLab on April 03, 2023, 12:11:53 PM
...
Bistander - nice work, curious as to how it will work out.
...
SL,
It works great as a core. I have no problems with it. Here I compared 4 coils (one per tooth) to coil surrounding the 4 teeth for induction using 60 Hz from variac excitating the original primary. I'll share after I figure a good way to present data. Been using Excel. I'm rusty at that.
bi
Quote from: bistander on April 03, 2023, 05:00:57 PM
SL,
It works great as a core. I have no problems with it. Here I compared 4 coils (one per tooth) to coil surrounding the 4 teeth for induction using 60 Hz from variac excitating the original primary. I'll share after I figure a good way to present data. Been using Excel. I'm rusty at that.
bi
When will we finally get more active power at the output than we fed at the input ?
Quote from: kolbacict on April 04, 2023, 01:42:20 PM
When will we finally get more active power at the output than we fed at the input ?
I think you know.
bi
Cadman,
Before beefing-up the 30 Ton press I'm going to follow your lead re: "resin & iron powder mix."
May have considerable merit IMHO - for example, see the attached paper.
SL
Quote from K - "Are you done yet, are you done yet?" ;) Quote from SL - "Give it a rest!" 8)
Q.: If I thought for a second that this method didn't work, would I spend >$2800us on machines
to make and test laminations and substrates?
Quote from: SolarLab on April 04, 2023, 02:29:57 PM
Cadman,
Before beefing-up the 30 Ton press I'm going to follow your lead re: "resin & iron powder mix."
May have considerable merit IMHO - for example, see the attached paper.
SL
Quote from K - "Are you done yet, are you done yet?" ;) Quote from SL - "Give it a rest!" 8)
Q.: If I thought for a second that this method didn't work, would I spend >$2800us on machines
to make and test laminations and substrates?
That's what I want to avoid, expensive tooling.
I continue to experiment. I tried a cast with two 1-1/2" dia N42 neos under it to see how that would work. The iron was pulled down strongly and I thought Oh boy! Did a few other things while it set, came back and discovered a porcupine casting! :o Funny looking as hell.
Quote from: bistander on April 03, 2023, 10:21:17 AM
Hi all,
You might consider this approach to getting useable cores for first attempt prototypes which I've used recently. I am just experimenting with behavior of "wires in grooves" as member rakarskiy would say, or coils in slots to satisfy my own interpretation of theory. My investigation is on going but indications so far don't surprise me. Anyway, for your consideration, I'll attach a photo of my fixture. Made from sawing and grinding an old MOT, uWave Oven Transformer. For a piece of scrape, it turned out pretty good in my opinion. It does not heat at all, coils do occasionally. A second portion of the core fits on top for the tests. Good luck.
bi
Hello, nice booth. Personally, I have already gone through this in various forms.
https://rakatskiy-blogspot-com.translate.goog/2022/12/1902.html?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=ru&_x_tr_pto=wapp
Answer yourself one question: how do you get the necessary magnetic induction in a slot with an induction winding?
Quote from: rakarskiy on April 04, 2023, 04:38:37 PM
Hello, nice booth. Personally, I have already gone through this in various forms.
https://rakatskiy-blogspot-com.translate.goog/2022/12/1902.html?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=ru&_x_tr_pto=wapp
Answer yourself one question: how do you get the necessary magnetic induction in a slot with an induction winding?
Thanks Rakarskiy,
I left another reply to your EF post.
On your first post there today you link to this which I hadn't noted before:
"A similar principle is implemented in the patent of the inventor Park Jae-sung " A device for generating electricity using a DC source brush that rotates with a field pole generator, a device for generating a DC source US8629588B2 "
Very similar to Holcomb in the primary, or field, winding scheme that I find disturbing. I've eluded to it several times. It does involve your wires in grooves. I am using the test fixture to double check my comprehension of Ampere's Law and related theory. It's served me well for decades. But doesn't hurt to witness it again. There is more which I intend to test, but as mentioned, so far, nothing weird happened. I still have yet to understand your problem with winding in slots. Been working great for a couple hundred years, when done correctly. I intend to post more information about it. If you see something you would like me to try, I'll consider.
BTW, a while back, you showed a 'miniture' replica of the HES device in the build process. Did it complete and test? Care to share?
Regards,
bi
Quote from: Cadman on April 04, 2023, 02:48:14 PM
That's what I want to avoid, expensive tooling.
I continue to experiment. I tried a cast with two 1-1/2" dia N42 neos under it to see how that would work. The iron was pulled down strongly and I thought Oh boy! Did a few other things while it set, came back and discovered a porcupine casting! :o Funny looking as hell.
Cadman,
Agree - but it appears pretty much any form of usable SMC requires some level of compaction.
So far I have not found many SMC formulations with modest compaction (a few hundred MPa),
but there is light at the tunnel hopefully, as shown in the article attached earlier. Quote:
"
Conclusions[/font]
Magnetic composites based on bulk amorphous alloys on an iron basis are used in many branches of electronics and[/font]
electrical engineering.
This work shows that it is possible to produce these types of materials using a simple uniaxial[/font]
press and a relatively low compression pressure. It is worth adding that the composites were made with only a small[/font]
proportion of non-magnetic binder. Composites were made of alloys differing significantly in the coercive field value.[/font]
However, the properties of the composites themselves are very similar. This is due to the separation of magnetic powder[/font]
particles with a non-magnetic binder. This separation weakens exchange interactions, magnetic properties are[/font]
determined by the arrangement of magnetic particles, their size and degree of separation."
[/font]
[/font]From the text: "[/font]
The material was pressed under a pressure of 25 MPa for 30 minutes."
[/font] [25 MPa ~ 1.82 Ton]
[/font]
Anyway, if it doesn't work, the resale value of the Press is quite good - at the local Merry Jane outlets! [/font] :P
Plus, it might have some irony - "MJ Press Solves the Energy Crisis!" How Ironic would that be? :)
SL
Quote from: bistander on April 04, 2023, 07:36:38 PM
Thanks Rakarskiy,
I left another reply to your EF post.
On your first post there today you link to this which I hadn't noted before:
"A similar principle is implemented in the patent of the inventor Park Jae-sung " A device for generating electricity using a DC source brush that rotates with a field pole generator, a device for generating a DC source US8629588B2 "
Very similar to Holcomb in the primary, or field, winding scheme that I find disturbing. I've eluded to it several times. It does involve your wires in grooves. I am using the test fixture to double check my comprehension of Ampere's Law and related theory. It's served me well for decades. But doesn't hurt to witness it again. There is more which I intend to test, but as mentioned, so far, nothing weird happened. I still have yet to understand your problem with winding in slots. Been working great for a couple hundred years, when done correctly. I intend to post more information about it. If you see something you would like me to try, I'll consider.
BTW, a while back, you showed a 'miniture' replica of the HES device in the build process. Did it complete and test? Care to share?
Regards,
bi
Hello! Unfortunately, I have no more information about the Holcomb patent minigenerator. The guy came to me to clarify the details, I voiced my vision and explained it to him. As for the function of the groove in the stator, I describe everything in detail in the book. I did not expect such a turn.
Quote from: rakarskiy on April 05, 2023, 03:58:17 AM
Hello! Unfortunately, I have no more information about the Holcomb patent minigenerator. The guy came to me to clarify the details, I voiced my vision and explained it to him. As for the function of the groove in the stator, I describe everything in detail in the book. I did not expect such a turn.
Hi Rakarskiy,
Any update on the Book release yet, and the price? Would like to add it to the course.
(several dozen copies minimum at this point - and these are corporates so their not stingy!)
Best regards,
SL
Here's the paper again for the B-H Curves above:
The inner rotor of suitable size was found. It was placed into stator 1.1 kW And nothing again.
Barely lights a light small bulb. What should I do, then ...
But an increase in the exit was discovered if one the output winding(probably both can)
falls into resonance. It was a single -phase motor with a phase shift capacitor.
It was soldered on the conclusions of the engine, and an effect accidentally discovered. :)
Do the members have the same pole count?
bi
Not. stator have 36,rotor 24.
p.s. And I'm also wondering if this will work as a frequency multiplier?
If the number of poles is different. I'll try to measure it tomorrow. :)
Quote from: kolbacict on April 06, 2023, 03:16:49 PM
Not. stator have 36,rotor 24.
36, 24 sounds like # of teeth (or slots), not magnetic poles, which are typically 2-pole, 4-pole, 6, but seldom much if any higher on that size. The point is, running, for example, a 2-pole member with a 4-pole member may cancel induction between the two. It's easy to tell pole count if the machine used a salient pole field, like 2 or 4 PMs. If it is a distributed wound machine, like induction motor, you can determine the coil pitch (radial distance between coil sides).
bi
Quote from: bistander on April 06, 2023, 03:38:32 PM
36, 24 sounds like # of teeth (or slots), not magnetic poles, which are typically 2-pole, 4-pole, 6, but seldom much if any higher on that size.
I have understood now. I think that the number of poles can definit from that, motor have 1380 rpm. on 50 hz.
And the little motor have one phase, 50hz. and 800 rpm.
The output frequency does not increase or decrease compared to the input.
Only when the rotor is rotated inside by hand, does the phase change relative to the stator current.
Have you inserted the motor stator into the motor stator and wanted to start the system?
See the hint, you need to simulate the operation of a permanent magnet magnetic rotor. Where did you see a permanent magnet working on a sinusoid?
The second clue in the generator is the magnetic field from the phase current and the magnetic field of the rotor must be summed up, it is this moment that forms the electromagnetic braking force.
I already wrote here that a good motor is a useless generator, and a good generator is a useless engine.
Quote from: rakarskiy on April 07, 2023, 03:20:08 AM
Have you inserted the motor stator into the motor stator and wanted to start the system?
Yes, I want it very much.
https://youtube.com/shorts/C6SMwxh-Mvw?feature=share (https://youtube.com/shorts/C6SMwxh-Mvw?feature=share)
Why my copper foil or pipe placed into stator with current. And my pipe isn't making short circuit for stator's windings ?
The foil should create one short-circuited turn for the stator windings.
But however this copper foil placing between stator and my yesterday rotor decreased its induction a bit.
B-H Loop Operation Efficiency (Several Methods)
Reference: Steered Flux Generator - US 20140265709A1
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20140265709A1/en?oq=US+2003%2f0168921+A1 (https://patents.google.com/patent/US20140265709A1/en?oq=US+2003%2f0168921+A1)
[0239] Additionally, the overall efficiency is also affected
by core loss. This occurs due to hysteresis and eddy currents
in magnetic material. Such as 3% silicon steel laminations.
For simplicity, the BH loops shown in FIGS. 1, 4, 44, 45, 46.
and 47 are shown as straight lines. However, they are actually
loops as shown in FIGS. 38 and 39. The loops are caused by
the energy required to reverse the individual magnetic
domains within the laminations. The area enclosed by the
loops is proportional to the energy required. This lost energy
shows up as heat in a generator.
An equation that expresses loss in watts per cubic-meter when
frequency is expressed in Hertz and flux density is expressed
in Tesla:
P=5.63*(Freq 1.532)*(B11904-B20.904)
[0243] CEPG generators have bipolar flux and saturate the
material in both directions. In that case B2=-B1 which results
in a large flux density change of B2+B1 and therefore there is
lots of loss.
This can be seen in FIG. 38. The large enclosed
area as 1 represents the loss for a traditional generator.
In contrast, the Switched flux generator of the present invention
uses unipolar flux operating on a minor loop. In that case, B2
is the same sign as B1 for a small flux density change of
B2-B1 and the loss is substantially reduced.
This can be seen in FIG.39. The small enclosed area identified
as 1 in FIG.39 represents the loss.
From computer simulations and the equation noted above,found
that B1 =1.329 Tesla and B2 =1.142 Tesla. Therefore, it is believed
that the ratio of loss for traditional generators to switched flux
generators could be as high as 7.104.
In other words, because of operating on a small minor loop, and
based on the above equation, it is expected that structures of
the present invention can achieve up to a seven-fold reduction
in core loss for each kilogram of material.
NOTE: Eddy Current Loss is reduced by using compressed powdered materials (SMC)
and Hysteresis Loss is reduced as shown above.
SL
SMC Press Update
Very impressed with the fancy 30 Ton Press (expensive and heavy [~90lbs] but well worth it).
Busy doing some adamix compounds, etc. and testing - but becoming convinced this is a GO!
Easy to use and the preliminary results look good - cost effective powders and much quicker
than cutting, stacking and clamping laminations. Plus, the results, so far, are remarkably similar.
Attached a paper that sheds some light on why this 30 Ton (~420 MPa) might just do the trick.
Note the included "Final Pressure" and "Three Phases" graphs. Going to 60 Ton (~ 820 MPa) may
not be worth it for lab development work; production, probably worth it.
Well, this kind of wraps things up for me with respect to the "LinGen" fabrication approaches.
Hope Ya'All had a great Easter break!
SL
Hello SolarLab
Quotehttps://overunity.com/19375/serious-hes-derivative-project-proposal/msg576334/#msg576334
I think my material will be useful to you:
https://rakatskiy-blogspot-com.translate.goog/2022/11/blog-post.html?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=ru&_x_tr_pto=wapp
*****
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flux_switching_alternator
The generators OU at Flynn (USA) and Kornilov (RF) are built on this principle. Currently, both are dead and the technology is classified or destroyed.
the first machine on a similar principle was built in Germany (1934-35):
https://patents.google.com/patent/US2116353A/en
Well,here is picture of magnetic field within stator having single winding.
Maybe anyone will be interesting. There is nothing rotating,but rotor nevertheless rotate.
the gap of line on the scope is where placed short circuit winding.
p.s.
Quote
the first machine on a similar principle was built in Germany (1934-35):
I have that on the benzin electric generator. :)
Quote from: SolarLab on April 10, 2023, 08:52:26 PM
SMC Press Update
Very impressed with the fancy 30 Ton Press (expensive and heavy [~90lbs] but well worth it).
Busy doing some adamix compounds, etc. and testing - but becoming convinced this is a GO!
Easy to use and the preliminary results look good - cost effective powders and much quicker
than cutting, stacking and clamping laminations. Plus, the results, so far, are remarkably similar.
Attached a paper that sheds some light on why this 30 Ton (~420 MPa) might just do the trick.
Note the included "Final Pressure" and "Three Phases" graphs. Going to 60 Ton (~ 820 MPa) may
not be worth it for lab development work; production, probably worth it.
Well, this kind of wraps things up for me with respect to the "LinGen" fabrication approaches.
Hope Ya'All had a great Easter break!
SL
Hey SL,
Are you pressing laminations or a solid core? Any tips to share?
My build is almost ready to take take off. The laminate molds are done and the coil bobbins are printed and will be ready to wind as soon as the support material is cleaned off.
The rest of the powdered iron has been delivered, both kinds, and the 26ga wire is in transit.
Quote from: Cadman on April 12, 2023, 09:02:48 AM
Hey SL,
Are you pressing laminations or a solid core? Any tips to share?
My build is almost ready to take take off. The laminate molds are done and the coil bobbins are printed and will be ready to wind as soon as the support material is cleaned off.
The rest of the powdered iron has been delivered, both kinds, and the 26ga wire is in transit.
Hi Cadman,
Looking forward to hearing how your laminate molds work out - a "first pass" is always exciting and a major step! Be it :)
or :( - either way...
Tried a slab with some sample powder mix (a bag some firm sent me but don't really know what it's composed of; you know, the old
proprietary, super secret stuff) but it worked out ok. Except a bit of mold sticking; probably due to not an even PAM spray mold coating.
Cut the slab and briefly measured the square blocks B-H - encouraging so far.
Will be tied up for a few (likely) weeks as I move into a new Lab with a seperate Fab area. PITA since the CNC Machines have to be moved,
tramming can take a few days or more; plus, sorting (playing) with all the stuff I'd put in the corner and forgotten about. Should be quite
nice however so it will be worth the time taken.
Good Luck (fingers crossed for ya) !
SL
Cadman-
How's she coming?
Hi floodrod,
Slowly making progress.
Narrowly avoided disaster last weekend, I screwed up the resin mix by thinning with too much denatured alcohol. It took 4 days for the castings to harden enough to remove from the molds. For awhile I thought the molds were ruined for sure. I hope to restart casting this weekend.
More electronics have arrived and the pole changing, pulse/pwm/recovery circuitry is nearing the assembly stage.
Finished winding the coils just last night. 36 coils, 4 'pies' per coil, 100 turns per pie, 14,400 turns total.
Still have to learn how to use the STM32 but I don't anticipate any difficulty with it.
Getting there. Thanks for asking.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/TH26SWhE7Bc (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/TH26SWhE7Bc)
For what do all these motors have an iron laminated ring between the stator and rotor?
After all, this shunts part of the stator magnetic flux.Making the magnetic flux weaker.
Quote from: kolbacict on May 21, 2023, 03:48:10 AM
For what do all these motors have an iron laminated ring between the stator and rotor?
After all, this shunts part of the stator magnetic flux.Making the magnetic flux weaker.
Hi kolbacict,
Verify pieces are ferrous. Look like Aluminum alloy to me.
bi
Nope. Tried with a magnet. iron.
I will even say more, I removed this ring.
As a result, the current consumption has doubled, and the motor began to rotate poorly.
Quote from: kolbacict on May 21, 2023, 02:11:24 PM
Nope. Tried with a magnet. iron.
I will even say more, I removed this ring.
As a result, the current consumption has doubled, and the motor began to rotate poorly.
Interesting. Rotor appears to be cast cage type for induction motor. Perhaps interpolar shunts cause delay flux simulating RMF. How are the 4 coils wired to source? AC or DC? No clues from where it came?
bi
{edit}
It is a shaded pole induction motor. Google search (images) displays examples of iron surrounding rotor like that. It is not obvious where the shorting(shading) coils are, perhaps cast into the housing end caps on the rotor bearings. Single phase AC fed.
Quote from: bistander on May 21, 2023, 02:34:20 PM
Perhaps interpolar shunts cause delay flux simulating RMF. How are the 4 coils wired to source? AC or DC? No clues from where it came?
It don't have interpolar shunts.
Very often used in tape recorders and record players.
Quote from: kolbacict on May 22, 2023, 02:57:18 AM
It don't have interpolar shunts.
Very often used in tape recorders and record players.
Want to check if the pump will work? ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZX0m6BV_v0&t=1s
There is no EMF again in my white wire. Why?
There is a rotating magnetic field, but there is no EMF from it.
Where is the EMF promised by Dr. Holcomb ?! >:(
Only 1 volt on 40 turns.
Because your white wire has to be wound over the inner tube, from side to side.
Not over tube wall.
The way you did it- cancelling EMF will be induced in the loop in both sides of the tube wall.
PS.
No ferromagnetic inside the tube. Air gap is huge. Expect large current in the drive windings to create B field.
Cheers,
Pix
Quote from: kolbacict on May 22, 2023, 05:59:26 AM
There is no EMF again in my white wire. Why?
There is a rotating magnetic field, but there is no EMF from it.
Where is the EMF promised by Dr. Holcomb ?! >:(
Only 1 volt on 40 turns.
Hi kolbacict,
I don't believe Holcomb.
The single phase induction motor rotor when in motion in the pulsating flux from a singly excited stator field does create a RMF, but you'll never see the RMF without the rotor in motion. Point is that when you take various parts from different equipments, you should not necessarily expect to see what you think was there in the original entirety. It may be fun and learning experiments, but to search for Holcomb effect in a moving magnetic field, it would be more fruitful to start with a known moving magnetic field such as the RMF from a 3-phase stator or sequence pulsed coils. Just my opinion.
And to Mr. Rakarskiy, have you had any success in finding this "Holcomb induction" in any physical experiment? Please share.
bi
Hi everyone.
I think my experiment was more like this.
Quote from: rakarskiy on May 22, 2023, 05:55:26 AM
Want to check if the pump will work? ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZX0m6BV_v0&t=1s
I think this is брехня. :) IMHO
Nope.
That's why your EMF isvery low.
And because there is no ferromagnetic inside tube, don't expect efficiency out of it.
Quote from: kolbacict on May 22, 2023, 11:30:38 AM
Hi everyone.
I think my experiment was more like this.
I think this is брехня. :) IMHO
Hello Kolbacict,
As Pix is saying...
You have it WRONG Friend!!
I already pointed out your issue a while back.
Coils MUST BE FACING COILS...Inductor>>Induced face to face.
Not side ways!!
Take care
Ufopolitics
Quote from: kolbacict on May 22, 2023, 05:59:26 AM
There is no EMF again in my white wire. Why?
There is a rotating magnetic field, but there is no EMF from it.
Where is the EMF promised by Dr. Holcomb ?! >:(
Only 1 volt on 40 turns.
Or it could be that your 40 turns are divided 10 - 20 - 10 and the two 10 turn groups cancel the 20 turns because they are wound wrong direction. Try it with only the 20 turns.
bi
Quote from: bistander on May 22, 2023, 01:59:11 PM
Or it could be that your 40 turns are divided 10 - 20 - 10 and the two 10 turn groups cancel the 20 turns because they are wound wrong direction. Try it with only the 20 turns.
bi
At first I had only one winding of 15 turns between two poles. EMF was exactly the same, about 1 volt.
Just measured the phasing of opposite coils with help a permanent magnet. Where am I wrong? The magnetic flux moves along the steel ring inside my winding. However there is no EMF in the winding. I can change the phasing by soldering the ends of the winding. It's not a problem.
Quote from: kolbacict on May 22, 2023, 03:21:45 PM
At first I had only one winding of 15 turns between two poles. EMF was exactly the same, about 1 volt.
Just measured the phasing of opposite coils with help a permanent magnet. Where am I wrong? The magnetic flux moves along the steel ring inside my winding. However there is no EMF in the winding. I can change the phasing by soldering the ends of the winding. It's not a problem.
Looks like it is a 4-pole machine. Original coils should produce N - S - N - S on inside pole faces with DC applied. Then steel tube between N & S face should be flux path and if coils are excited with AC, should induce transformer secondary voltage in added coil between original pole faces.
But as I said before, this is not a moving magnetic field, just varying, or alternating.
When there is the solid rotor, magnetic field vector is radial. But when rotor is replaced by tube, field or flux path follows the short cut connecting poles N to S.
The standard RMF is a radial directed vector which rotates around circumference, but always has direction along radius across air gap. Once you remove/replace parts, all bets are off.
bi
Quote from: rakarskiy on April 11, 2023, 02:10:51 AM
Hello SolarLab
I think my material will be useful to you:
https://rakatskiy-blogspot-com.translate.goog/2022/11/blog-post.html?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=ru&_x_tr_pto=wapp (https://rakatskiy-blogspot-com.translate.goog/2022/11/blog-post.html?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=ru&_x_tr_pto=wapp)
*****
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flux_switching_alternator (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flux_switching_alternator)
The generators OU at Flynn (USA) and Kornilov (RF) are built on this principle. Currently, both are dead and the technology is classified or destroyed.
the first machine on a similar principle was built in Germany (1934-35):
https://patents.google.com/patent/US2116353A/en (https://patents.google.com/patent/US2116353A/en)
Hi Rakarskiy,
Thanks - Have been following your Blog and videos (including your commentaries) for a while now and find them all
extremely "technically" useful and very interesting. You demonstrate some great insight into CE, and such, as well, IMHO.
Looking forward to your book, even if it's sold at the typical high tech publication price! Have a feeling it will be well
worth the cost (even at 5_X !) and it's desperately needed, especially now.
Also, thanks for translating/publishing your Blog in EN - my UKR/RU is poor at best. Plus - found the Google page link quite
well done - that's the kind of format (subject - text, animations, videos, etc.) I'm trying to do using a VPS (server scheme).
Take care and stay safe...
Regards,
SL
Quote from: SolarLab on May 22, 2023, 05:29:38 PM
Hi Rakarskiy,
Thanks - Have been following your Blog and videos (including your commentaries) for a while now and find them all
extremely "technically" useful and very interesting. You demonstrate some great insight into CE, and such, as well, IMHO.
SL
Hello!
At one time, I was strongly recommended not to popularize this technology (magnetic flux switching).
Today it is the most closed technology for the production of electricity and super-efficient motors.
This is my new blog post: https://rakatskiy.blogspot.com/2023/05/blog-post.html
Sincerely!
PS
To understand how Holcomb or Figuere systems work, you need to understand how a synchronous generator works with wire laid in a groove or wound on coils.
It works exactly like a transformer, to make a generator you need to force the main field in the core to form - phase current.
I have understood my mistake.
Real magnetic field is moving as my second picture.
I removed one extra winding that was turned on towards and interfered.
And EMF was raise in two time. :)
But I did not find a virtual rotating field, divorced from reality. :(
Quote from: kolbacict on May 23, 2023, 02:55:05 AM
But I did not find a virtual rotating field, divorced from reality. :(
You've made good progress! Now learn everything there is about magnetically conductive circuits. You do not put a wire 0.1 mm in diameter for a current of 10A. Electrical and magnetic resistance, it is very similar in principle of operation.
You have an excitation field, but you don't have a field from the phase. These two fields in one magnetic circuit must match.
PS. your piece of iron is not the best option for a generator magnetic circuit, but as a rake, if it comes, even very much.
Quote from: rakarskiy on May 23, 2023, 03:55:58 AM
You've made good progress!
:)
With all that said, pay attention. Take for example my four-coil motor.
If you switch the coils in a circle in turn with a mechanical switch to create a rotating field, for example, yours.
It is necessary that the current was simultaneously available in two adjacent coils.
This is necessary so that the magnetic field moves only forward, but does not return back.
Quote from: rakarskiy on May 23, 2023, 02:31:43 AM
Hello!
At one time, I was strongly recommended not to popularize this technology (magnetic flux switching).
Today it is the most closed technology for the production of electricity and super-efficient motors.
This is my new blog post: https://rakatskiy.blogspot.com/2023/05/blog-post.html (https://rakatskiy.blogspot.com/2023/05/blog-post.html)
Sincerely!
PS
To understand how Holcomb or Figuere systems work, you need to understand how a synchronous generator works with wire laid in a groove or wound on coils.
It works exactly like a transformer, to make a generator you need to force the main field in the core to form - phase current.
Hi Rakarskiy,
I know what you mean about not popularizing magnetic flux switching, I'll say no more.
Question - I don't understand when you say "force the main field in the core to form - phase current."
Could you explain, or elaborate a bit more, on what you mean by "
phase current?"
TIA - Also, see this post for some reference information on Magnetic Circuit:
https://overunity.com/12794/re-inventing-the-wheel-part1-clemente_figuera-the-infinite-energy-machine/msg578168/#msg578168 (https://overunity.com/12794/re-inventing-the-wheel-part1-clemente_figuera-the-infinite-energy-machine/msg578168/#msg578168)
SL
Quote from: kolbacict on May 23, 2023, 02:55:05 AM
I have understood my mistake.
Real magnetic field is moving as my second picture.
I removed one extra winding that was turned on towards and interfered.
And EMF was raise in two time. :)
But I did not find a virtual rotating field, divorced from reality. :(
Another thing to realize is that you're dealing with vector quantities so the angle is cheating you severely I think. You attempt to make
v along same line as
B. I tired to describe this yesterday, perhaps a graphic will help.
bi
from: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/magnetic/genwir2.html
Quote from: SolarLab on May 23, 2023, 01:56:53 PM
Hi Rakarskiy,
I know what you mean about not popularizing magnetic flux switching, I'll say no more.
Question - I don't understand when you say "force the main field in the core to form - phase current."
Could you explain, or elaborate a bit more, on what you mean by "phase current?"
TIA - Also, see this post for some reference information on Magnetic Circuit:
https://overunity.com/12794/re-inventing-the-wheel-part1-clemente_figuera-the-infinite-energy-machine/msg578168/#msg578168 (https://overunity.com/12794/re-inventing-the-wheel-part1-clemente_figuera-the-infinite-energy-machine/msg578168/#msg578168)
SL
Hi Rakarskiy,
In an attempt to answer my own question, I reviewed a few things (see links below).
The "phase current" appears to relate to the system loading (reactive vs resistive) and how it might affect the output of
a synchronous generator. Since the load will likely feed a fixed input (likely an inverter) it shouldn't be a problem in the
final design - the inverter I'm using for test has a fixed super capacitor input which feeds the rest of the inverter circuits.
Anyway, here's a couple of videos you might find interesting, especially this first one:
Complete understanding of Armature reaction through animationhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BXgi5lIxA0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BXgi5lIxA0)
Note; when the presenter split the generator circuit in half for explanation purposes; I found it interesting that it looks
almost exactly like the LinGen! He presents some interesting "data curves" and analysis.
How Does Synchronous Generator Works https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8zJKXkU_yM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8zJKXkU_yM)
This video is more of an indepth explaination of the synchronous generator - a good review.
Have a good day...
SL
Quote from: bistander on May 23, 2023, 05:12:05 PM
Another thing to realize is that you're dealing with vector quantities so the angle is cheating you severely I think. You attempt to make v along same line as B. I tired to describe this yesterday, perhaps a graphic will help.
bi
from: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/magnetic/genwir2.html (http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/magnetic/genwir2.html)
If we are going to explain absolute basics, it is better to leave that site.
Let's leave it for individuals like Nix85 , with esoteric BS, pyramids, aliens ect.
Cheers,
Pix
Quote from: SolarLab on May 24, 2023, 01:08:03 AM
https://overunity.com/19375/serious-hes-derivative-project-proposal/msg578263/#msg578263
It is this pirouette that I do not perceive.
There are two types of EMF:
For a conductor in a magnetic field - when the magnetic lines are crossed by the conductor (E= Bm*l*v)
For a conductor with a change in magnetic flux - transformer EMF (E = 4.44Фf)
These are absolutely two different types of induction EMF.
The first one does NOT enhance the external magnetic flux, but hinders it. Applicable to the frame generator and the like.
(I have more details here in the material "The resulting force of Ampere (https://rakatskiy.blogspot.com/p/ampere-force.html)". By the way, this material proves that the Lorentz force as an actual component simply does not exist, but the Ampere Force works). In principle, this is a unipolar way of generating EMF.
The second is just the opposite, the magnetic flux arising from the phase current is added to the excitation flux. The question of how EMF arises in a groove or in a transformer window, physicists still do not know, they cannot explain. It's just a fact because this formula (E = 4.44Фf) is called engineering. For that, everyone is being pushed into the unipolar formula in explaining the operation of synchronous machines, which engineers calculate exactly according to the engineering formula.
Quote from: pix on May 24, 2023, 05:19:22 AM
If we are going to explain absolute basics, it is better to leave that site.
Let's leave it for individuals like Nix85 , with esoteric BS, pyramids, aliens ect.
Cheers,
Pix
Hi Pix,
Please explain. Do you see problem with material on that attachment, or elsewhere on that site, or just disgusted with other crap on this forum, or with me? Shouldn't we always consider "basics"?
bi
Quote from: bistander on May 24, 2023, 08:02:54 AM
Hi Pix,
Please explain. Do you see problem with material on that attachment, or elsewhere on that site, or just disgusted with other crap on this forum, or with me? Shouldn't we always consider "basics"?
bi
Absolutely no.
I just stated that if we have to explain to people absolute basics, elementary school knowledge as you did presented in your nice attachement- then there is no hope for that site and we will be overhelmed by trash like Nix85 is posting.
Cheers,
Pix
Quote from: rakarskiy on May 24, 2023, 05:55:33 AM
It is this pirouette that I do not perceive.
There are two types of EMF:
For a conductor in a magnetic field - when the magnetic lines are crossed by the conductor (E= Bm*l*v)
For a conductor with a change in magnetic flux - transformer EMF (E = 4.44Фf)
These are absolutely two different types of induction EMF.
The first one does NOT enhance the external magnetic flux, but hinders it. Applicable to the frame generator and the like.
(I have more details here in the material "The resulting force of Ampere (https://rakatskiy.blogspot.com/p/ampere-force.html)". By the way, this material proves that the Lorentz force as an actual component simply does not exist, but the Ampere Force works). In principle, this is a unipolar way of generating EMF.
The second is just the opposite, the magnetic flux arising from the phase current is added to the excitation flux. The question of how EMF arises in a groove or in a transformer window, physicists still do not know, they cannot explain. It's just a fact because this formula (E = 4.44Фf) is called engineering. For that, everyone is being pushed into the unipolar formula in explaining the operation of synchronous machines, which engineers calculate exactly according to the engineering formula.
Hi Rakarskiy,
The two perceived types of EMF generation might also be perceived (solved) by looking at:
Maxwell's 4th Law, Ampere's Law The fourth of Maxwell's law is Ampere's law. The Ampere's law states that the generation of magnetic fields
can be done in two methods namely with electric current as well as with changing electric fields. In integral
type, the induced magnetic field in the region of any closed loop will be proportional toward the electric
current and displacement current throughout the enclosed surface.
The Maxwell's amperes law will make the set of the equations accurately reliable for non-static fields without
altering the Ampere as well as Gauss laws for fixed fields. But as a result, it expects that a change of the
magnetic field will induce an electric field. Thus, these mathematical equations will allow self-sufficient
electromagnetic wave for moving through empty space. The electromagnetic waves speed can be measured
and that could be expected from the currents as well as charges experiments match the light's speed, and
this is one type of electromagnetic radiation.
∇ x B = J/ε0c2+ 1/c2 ∂E/∂t
Thus, this is all about Maxwell's equations.
From the above equations, finally, we can conclude that these equations include four laws that are related
to the electric (E) as well as magnetic (B) field are discussed above. Maxwell's equations may be written in
the form of equivalent integral as well as differential.
Both the integral and differential forms are shown below.
BTW - That's one of the reasons why using 3D CAE Analysis (it employes all 4 Maxwell's Equations) can be
very useful when looking at complex structures. But this is just IMHO.
SL
Quote from: pix on May 24, 2023, 12:29:36 PM
Absolutely no.
I just stated that if we have to explain to people absolute basics, elementary school knowledge as you did presented in your nice attachement- then there is no hope for that site and we will be overhelmed by trash like Nix85 is posting.
Cheers,
Pix
I agree. Thanks.
But sometimes a reminder to use an angle is helpful.
bi
Quote from: rakarskiy on May 24, 2023, 05:55:33 AM...
(I have more details here in the material "The resulting force of Ampere (https://rakatskiy.blogspot.com/p/ampere-force.html)". By the way, this material proves that the Lorentz force as an actual component simply does not exist, but the Ampere Force works). In principle, this is a unipolar way of generating EMF.
...
Hi Rakarskiy,
Ampere's Force equation again. You might, and others also, benefit from this article.
http://www.ampere.cnrs.fr/histoire/parcours-historique/lois-courants/force-obsolete/eng
bi
Quote from: bistander on May 23, 2023, 05:12:05 PM
Another thing to realize is that you're dealing with vector quantities so
Hi.
Of course.
I just wanted to say that a conventional three phase current not the best fit for rotating magnetic field in non moving core. Let's notice that in circular core magnetic field move as forward and back.
Maybe it good for motor. I believe that it is necessary to have current in two of the three coils at any given time.
And probably it will be better meandr. ???
Continued, the beginning of the experiment at the link: https://overunity.com/12794/re-inventing-the-wheel-part1-clemente_figuera-the-infinite-energy-machine/msg578333/#msg578333
Basically what I expected. The secondary winding of a conventional transformer does not function as a generator winding.
I conducted the experiment, got what I was looking for, current waveforms Screen1 (https://photo.i.ua/user/3692128/552750/16227149/), Screen2 (https://photo.i.ua/user/3692128/552750/16227150/). Period for two parts excitation from the source 12.8V in yellow 1, reset back to the source in blue 2.
I checked two frequencies, the indicator at 200Hz, that the current does not fall below 0.4A, says that the core is not demagnetized. At 70 Hz, the degaussing is already at its best, but still not completely. In principle, I have several ideas on how to solve this, while the current should still increase.
On the slides there is no over unity, there, the figure is at best 99.9%.
I suppose that magnetic field will be rotating if make as this way as the picture.
That is, not switching the current in the coils in a circle, but switching the absence of current.
On the example of a six-coil. But i don't made it yet.
kolbacict,
If you need help understanding how a 3 phase rotating field can induce current into a fixed stator you might want to spend some time reading this thread:
https://overunity.com/19222/maybe-possible-idea-for-duplicating-effect-of-holcomb-and-others/
In that thread I have videos showing how power can be gotten from a rotating 3 phase field.
Several things have come up preventing me from getting back to that research right now but I do plan to continue it later.
Carroll
Quote from: citfta on August 19, 2022, 04:00:12 PM
If we then turn the alternator with a small DC motor like one of the scooter motors many of us have used in the past we now have a 3 phase source of power that can be adjusted both in frequency and power out.
Yes, I did that.
Quote from: citfta on August 19, 2022, 04:00:12 PM
And then maybe we could take power from the brushes of the second alternator. Of course we would need to lock the rotor of the second alternator as I believe it would probably try to turn with the 3 phase rotating field from the stator. any increase in power going to the brushes of the first alternator. Only testing will show if that is correct.
Carroll
I was feeding three phase current in stator car alternator.
For some reason there was very little EMF. The Lundell rotor is apparently not designed for reverse power production. Could this was done to improve the efficiency of the car's alternator?
Maybe this Lundell was a smart dude? ;)
There is good news for today!
The slide shows the amplitude of a pulse system with a parametric winding on the core of the transformer (the winding is different from the transformer). The system receives from source to source and returns (DC 11.8V). The resistor (0.1 Ohm), from which we measure the current in the circuit, is located in the parametric winding circuit. On the slide is the most optimal mode. While I was working with the transformer topology system, there was no way I could cross a line greater than 1. Therefore, all my achievements in understanding how a synchronous generator works are most likely correct.
Слава Україні!
Quote from: rakarskiy on May 26, 2023, 03:18:08 PM
There is good news for today!
The slide shows the amplitude of a pulse system with a parametric winding on the core of the transformer (the winding is different from the transformer). The system receives from source to source and returns (DC 11.8V). The resistor (0.1 Ohm), from which we measure the current in the circuit, is located in the parametric winding circuit. On the slide is the most optimal mode. While I was working with the transformer topology system, there was no way I could cross a line greater than 1. Therefore, all my achievements in understanding how a synchronous generator works are most likely correct.
Слава Україні!
DO you have a link to your circuit or a blog post on this design? I'm not quite sure what you're doing but thanks for sharing. :)
Quote from: Jimboot on May 29, 2023, 06:39:27 AM
DO you have a link to your circuit or a blog post on this design? I'm not quite sure what you're doing but thanks for sharing. :)
Hello! I'm checking. I assembled a reverse test circuit, on a transformer. Got a picture that miscalculated. Current readings are taken from the resistor on the negative terminal of the DC source.
I put two resistors in my new circuit, one in the transformer circuit, the other in front of the negative terminal of the DC source. A strange scene takes place. On the resistor through the negative terminal of the source, the current has the same twist as when excited, although this is impossible. The combination of diodes must not allow this. As a result, the transistors burned out. In any case, a buffer capacitance is most likely required to discharge the circuit. I'll deal with this later.
(transformer and windings are the same)
Screenshot of the operation of a traditional flyback circuit (https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhMQ517J0T4uhzgQdbCr50r3058qidZBaRDWydFY12p8OwNv4Lda14gyhyDDZICDMSEshr3lurRH3mJhHG4oCgGiG0vFcn4qHl4I1tYwQ0e4waDumMGKv3vp-QGSvADEqgxG3t81NGG0y1nzTwkyhKYEJMP35iFrIx5tOxxCCwONLfhv_Q65JcjiCVh/s1361/2023-05-30_103730.jpg)
Screenshot of the new scheme ???????? (https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhy3-a9O3X7qN2UYmJBTb3J-_O9iTxfj9oiHUa2x3-CcovKwrr-eFNmVkDp1e_rqkRgU5aZK02xBrfSHXhr5Do1MmdIrl0JS3EiqxGFJogWwFEWhkiV1UQX19SXxOGGa9XAdGm9N-xOJd_fEeV8i68sQouLwjqHht_wtPqNwW10PlPrmQmSoO0R8E7B/s1145/2023-05-30_125527.jpg)
PS
I am very good at diagrams. Checked the assembly several times. He made positions when the excitation went through the keys and there was no return (the current was locked in the core and windings). What happens in this combination, I still do not understand. There are various crazy assumptions. I will redesign the circuit and use two sources to excite and reset the reverse pulse! Let's get a look.
I set up my "flyback converter" circuit with primary and secondary windings and got an interesting picture. If we compare the "amount" of current in the excitation pulse and the charge, we get one.
Screen watch (https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgl3_HC3kBHPwi79TtgmozHxPSaPkfkMYKxZjTsJlZCjWt2ZUO2_lO-vajBZmFKhVbuPs2LSiZteNr3KhkMxQnJG0xpL0ZSygk6DRr2aeikKTOMa-J066kLgc81N8rINCxf1HLtExwy0FAIdCGjwvdM02ydI_NP1D5a3VqOkhQ24BVUDe4PbIKyCxh6/s1358/2023-05-30_143233.jpg)
I checked my converter. The winding parameters have been specially changed (logically, the system should move away from Unity). And so it happened. The concept is fully operational and coincides with the topology of the synchronous generator, and the Holcomb installation (Figer and others) considered in this topic. The transformer will not be Over Unity, it must be made a generator.
FIG.1 (https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgYoiFpMeEne-nk3KOe30jBUTiTW5tS7FWAswtqHZbyLnildbwmLdmCU-k3FnWUhNlXTtxC9_DtkhROKWXjpsAx7Z0KyqqOJDSQiw5baYjZatFwHmEfBipMa6MdSoZh50ZAn-7F3JEBZTADolAgeKmMjYj77WA1p9kDORVhnQBNvrRdphKLY74JaZJ0/s1359/2023-06-02_130335.jpg) FIG.2 (https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgm341hziaUqoWEprvWLWz2zrqcvl7vN6XHMlfRV_4c5pg_th52KuIB_wFTxbfIdO5kcp4gwHVIOZ_Nfe9GoTMLvyw4oqW1AQ1EM4X-Y7RHW8EWYdNLB-yApqhsttXP8DZbtGTCZwKK2XpyRtY1eskE6IZK_giehlhfq3R7rkCAD6CF2mwzbg36Pvrb/s1005/2023-06-02_134904.jpg)
I did another calculation test, I entered the data into the circuit of the electronic simulator. The simulator is ideal and gives a linear calculation. See how close the point is.
The simulator does not take into account the features of the transformer. The topology is completely simplified in electronic simulators for very simple circuits.
Anybody will answered me,for what need this ring?
;) Everything will be in the book, "Unity" is shown here, and then Over-Unity
Diagram (https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhiRuiPwyLw2dA2S46uqzrM0qyibNbu_HXOZpHp1hEd19C6Pn6F4iXnJX74AiRThzxosg8BcTIkAxEPt_uObzXVGVxVy5ImAGFpL-1SkFw7djOMD3agRJN2qz8PjzU0EJm9YxPSx30P5MrBL_cHS6qkVO0BFVit_h37-L5pDFeWVa5UT7FQD3ZXoORc/s2483/2023-06-03_125357.jpg)
To all,
If you have any interest in the original topic of this thread, it has been moved to https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4475.0
Quote from: rakarskiy on June 03, 2023, 06:47:23 AM
;) Everything will be in the book, "Unity" is shown here, and then Over-Unity
Slightly corrected the placement of the 1 ohm resistor, from which the readings were taken with an oscilloscope.
The operation of a flyback converter with the return of energy to the source with the effect - Unity is shown.
Diagram (https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgZC8N22_bBjSnrVrV37V7nXwUGW67izQ6_2zoVp2kmUTZKauZ4Dy4Ovy6mj6dV_Vsfi9rKlfKGUNFTu05c1IxngnfdwzwEGPHsoKartzYY8GEcB9aV23mFvwplNjDpcsY2kuBUeFBU0oDhD4YuWaPYnZNy1tpVSxNxjK0QoKCJS6UbnpNIwkyUR2-h/s2483/2023-06-03_125357.jpg)
Once again a photo of the scheme FIG1 (https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgm341hziaUqoWEprvWLWz2zrqcvl7vN6XHMlfRV_4c5pg_th52KuIB_wFTxbfIdO5kcp4gwHVIOZ_Nfe9GoTMLvyw4oqW1AQ1EM4X-Y7RHW8EWYdNLB-yApqhsttXP8DZbtGTCZwKK2XpyRtY1eskE6IZK_giehlhfq3R7rkCAD6CF2mwzbg36Pvrb/s1005/2023-06-02_134904.jpg)
There is no COP>1 in flyback.
Unless you will utilise permanent magnet, air gap and switching path MEG style.
Quote from: pix on June 05, 2023, 07:33:05 AM
There is no COP>1 in flyback.
Unless you will utilise permanent magnet, air gap and switching path MEG style.
Who told you that traditional flyback converters should have Over Unity.
Here is the question in principle. Make the secondary winding work as a generator phase. (the secondary of the transformer and the phase of the generator are different according to the principle of interaction with the magnetic flux).
The gap is needed for the linearity of the change in the magnetic flux, I already wrote about this here.
As for the Magnet, it is a different device and more than real. More real than you can imagine.
I contacted Ellen Holcomb with a question about legal claims against their company and the like. Got a relevant response, I quote an excerpt of her response :
"This lawsuit was an affair by people trying to steal our technology. It was so weak that even before the first trial, they asked our legal team for a settlement. Their partners filed another lawsuit in Florida trying to steal our building. They lost in court and have to pay our legal fees. This is what happens when you invent something of value - greedy people try to steal it. We are fighting them and winning."
She also said that they have confirmation of the technology's performance from SGS and DNV GL. I have no reason not to trust Ellen. I have already said that the Holcombe Energy System is a commercial project, the details of how the technology works is commercial information, admission to which is subject to the appropriate legal procedure.
I believe that blocking threads on the forum where we discuss this technology is in the interests of unscrupulous people who are working off vested interests, even in their misconceptions of physics. Holcomb's project with its static generator refutes the claim that a mechanical generator is a converter of mechanical energy into electrical energy.
This system works on the well-known principle of a synchronous generator with a core. In this system there are technical solutions that allow to simulate the work of /rotation/ of a mechanical magnetic rotor in the commutation system of a static electromagnet, which creates a constant magnetic flux that repeats the work of the mechanical magnetic rotor without physical rotation.
____________________________________________________
My explanations of the operation of Holcomb's static generator:
https://rakatskiy.blogspot.com/2022/06/overunity-holcomb-energy-system.html
____________________________________________________
Cross-over solutions with electromechanical commutation of static rotor solenoids only:
https://rakatskiy-blogspot-com.translate.goog/2022/06/blog-post.html?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=ru&_x_tr_pto=wapp
If you know exactly how EMF is induced in the simplest core generator, you will definitely know how Dr. Holcomb's static electromagnetic generator works.
rakarskiy,
Here we go again, just because you talk to a women who would never tell you the truth in the first place doesn't make it legit.
The real facts are the people who got one of these system that don't work at all, in fact they use more energy then less.
Till this day, nobody has a working system that can show the world it really works!
(Everything will be in the book, "Unity" is shown here, and then Over-Unity)
Rakarskiy, Sounds like you're trying to sale BS on this open source forum!
Tom
TommеуReed, if you purchased a non-functioning device, there are legal avenues to resolve the issue. Bring up the fact of fraud, if not, then the fraudster may be you who speculates with the phrase "trust me, I know someone who was defrauded". Woman or man they are both owners, with the legal issues just in her control. I am not interested in the commercial side, only the technical side. It is not decent to discuss legal aspects on the forum. Holcomb do not disclose their decisions without proper legal formalization. So if there is a fact of non-working installation, it would be a court verdict. Can you provide it? If not, you better watch and chew your drool. According to the information, two lawsuits have been settled in favor of Holcomb. That is a fact.
Although I'm skeptical about the content of the design of Holcomb, I do agree with Rakarskiy .
Skepticism is very much the right tool in any evaluation including my own.
It is also a tool speeding up progress, as it puts a pressure on the promoters motivation, resulting in more detailed information and/or their faster response.
Let's legal action end, and we'll see what's next
Wesley
Quote from: stivep on November 11, 2023, 09:54:21 AM...
Let's legal action end, and we'll see what's next
Wesley
According to the recent quote attributed to Ms. Holcomb, the legal action has ended.
Still no replication.
bi
Quote from: bistander on November 11, 2023, 10:19:29 AM
According to the recent quote attributed to Ms. Holcomb, the legal action has ended.
Still no replication.
bi
Replication would help, Holcomb,
verified presentation of working devices would help even more along with testimony of satisfied customers..
-but there is no patent defending their rights to targeted technology yet.
Holcomb didn't fulfill expectations of involved parties .
Lawyers and plaintiffs are there till the defendant becomes totally dry despite who is right or wrong.
Historically homeless people are unlikely to face allegations.
The outcome is quite predictable, but it is not up to me to announce it .
Stick to official science my friends, you may not gain but you are safe.
Wesley