I hope you enjoy my video, I just switched some wires and wow, thing started running on its own.
Now I'm off to try and scale up.
This thing seems to run for hours, we'll see if it stops over night.
EM
I don't know man... Is this for real, or one of your get everybody excited to prove a point... :-\
FAN-F&?&*N-TASTIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tell me. Are the coils controlling the transistor?
How fast is the led blinking at?
Well done EM,
how big are your caps in this circuit ?
Can you please post a high res picture of this setup ?
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
@EMDevices
O.K. Great, now the 64 million dollar question? Are you going to post complete specifications, i.e, schematic, full parts list, brief but accurate description of working circuit, etc, as the wonderful Dr Stiffler and Co have been doing?
If so, really great. If not...........boo hooh for me I guess. :( And anyone else whose curiosity is aroused by your little video!
Looking forward to some follow up from you EMDevices. This TPU idea should be thrown into the same open and forthright light that the thread on Cold Electricity with Dr Stiffler has been receiving. My gut feeling is, that the two lines of research could benefit from a little "cross pollination" of ideas from the groups in each thread.
Anyhow... KneeDeep...will be waiting....KneeDeep..... for more....KneeDeep
Cheers from The Toad who Hops :)
Excellent work EM!
I can't wait to hear how it stays in the operational band and how long it runs. (hopefully forever!)
Hear hear!!
Congrats EM!!
Look fwd to seeing the setup diags mate.
Rgds,
Mikey
Is it still running ;) ?
Hi guys, I'll post a picture and tell you more about it later tonight when I get home.
However, you should know that I checked this morning, and the LED was not blinking, so probably it won't last more then an hour, but I won't be satisfied untill it runs over nightÃ, :)
The cap I'm using is 1000 uF and if I try to run the LED off of the cap alone (through a 400 ohm resistor) it discharges it from 5 volt in less then one or two seconds.
The two things that are very interesting to me about this circuit are:
Ã, 1)Ã, Simplicity (one transistor) and,
Ã, 2)Ã, Efficiency, or seeming self running mode (I do feed the energy back)Ã, Ã,Â
I played a bit with a magnet in close proximity to the ferrite toroid and it made the LED brighter so I need to study this phenomena in more depth.Ã, I just got it running in this super-super efficient mode last night, right before bed time, so I just had to let you guys in on the excitement.Ã, I plan more experiments tonight.Ã, By the way, the ferrite also produces audible clicks, but are a bit to soft for the camera mic to pick up from a distance.Ã,Â
This thing is just awesome to hold in your hand and see it have it's own life beat in it, as if its a beating heart.Ã, I had a sense of wonder holding it in my hand.Ã, I think I'm on the OU border bumping against the "fence".Ã, Ã, I'll break thorough on the other side hopefullyÃ, :)
EM
Hi EM,
how did you start the circuit ?
Just load the cap with 5 Volts and let it go ?
How many hours did it run when you were still awake ?
Many thanks.
Yes, I charge the capacitor to 5 volts and plug it in on the board and off it goes.Ã, I had it running for half an hour and then I had to get to bed.Ã, Ã, I also discharged the capacitor and pluged it in, which is what surprised me when it started running on it's own.Ã, But we know that electrolitic capacitors come back in voltage somewhat, and this thing can run at 1 volt or less, that's how efficient it is.Ã, Ã, I also noticed that at low voltages it enters a mode where the light becomes brighter, seemingly fighting back to stay alive, and charges the capacitor slightly higher.Ã, It's really bizzare.Ã, Ã, Somebody asked what frequency, and it's around a few cycles per second, they are so seldom my digital scope doesn't latch on to the quick spikes so I can't tell what the period is exactly, but I would guess between 5 to 10 cycles per second.
EM
@EM
I had put up a small circuit recently on the Discussion thread using a control coil and a collector coil driven with one transitor or relay. Your device reminds of this as I was trying to see if the coils themselves could control the transistor operation naturally instead of using a timer. Are you using a timer on the transistor or is this action totally dependant on the coils? WOW. Even if this is using some power, this is critical in the potential magnet start up of a TPU. You may try with your cap discharged and add an inductor parallel to the cap and magnet to see if it will start it. WOW again, and again.
There is no timer IC, wattsup,Ã,Â
"..it's a knowledge of the coils (and transistor) and how they interact with each other... "Ã, Ã, :D LOL
EM
Hi EM,
looks like your circuit seems to be simular to the Joule Thief circuit ?
http://www.emanator.demon.co.uk/bigclive/joule.htm
Maybe with some feedback and much lower frequency ?
What kind of core did you use ?
Please don?t let us wait to long with a few answers,
we are already very curious about your genuine circuit !
Wow, if this could be scaled up this would be a real winner !
Regards, Stefan.
yes, that circuit is very simular, it's the basic blocking oscillator topology I've been experimenting with. However, that circuit works at high frequencies like 10 kHz, and it varies depending on the saturation of the core. What I stumbled on is a low frequency mode of operation that's supper efficient.
I'll get home in about 3 hours and I'll take a high resolution photo.
But please understand that I first need to determine if I have something novel or not, and to just understand it's operation, if it's something trivial that's been published before I'll be more then happy to disclose full diagrams.
I also would like to think that we can scale this thing up.
To answer your question, the toroid is just a ferrite, not sure what kind of properties it has. I bought it at a electronic parts recycle shop.
EM
Hi EM,
how many coils do you have on the core ?
2 or 3 ?
How did you do the feedback ?
Do you have some diodes that charge up the el. cap via the back EMF spike ?
Or is the LED the freewheel diode, that is powering back the cap from the coil back EMF spikes ?
Many thanks.
Looking forward to your new tests...
There are 4 coils
Diode is the LED
Kickback spikes are recycled.
Hi EM,
many thanks for the nice picture.
So how are the 4 coils connected ?
Could you make a fast handdrawn schematic
and just make a picture of it and post it ?
If some other people can verify this, this thing could
be scaled up much faster.
Many thanks already in advance.
Regards, Stefan.
Thanks EM,
This is an interesting development. Looks like you might have something there. Can't wait to build it.
Hans von Lieven
Hi EM,
just think about a name for your circuit,
so as you are the inventor you can give "your baby" a name
how we should call it. :D
So everyone knows, that you are the inventor, if you
put your name with it.
Regards, Stefan.
The omega coil tpu system... 8)
Quote from: EMdevices on November 13, 2007, 07:00:55 PM
There are 4 coils
Diode is the LED
Kickback spikes are recycled.
Nice!
Can the audience please have a shot from the back?
--giantkiller.
Unless he modified the breadboard there should be no need for it Giant :-)
Hans von Lieven
Cool find, EM. 8)
I have a few questions about your picture, if you don't mind.
Thank you,
Rosphere
> if it's something trivial that's been published before
> I'll be more then happy to disclose full diagrams.
huh?
@Rosphere
Geez nice work but that's more than a "few" questions. All these would be eventually answered with a diagram.
Just the fact that the system was running longer with the circuit then directly on the charged cap says it's got promise, so let's give EM some room to breath.
@argona369
Can't blame EM for being a realist. He's seen these before only to jump back to say no way. So being the cautious optimist is only the right and responsible thing to do.
Quote from: wattsup on November 14, 2007, 12:37:24 AM
@Rosphere
Geez nice work but that's more than a "few" questions. All these would be eventually answered with a diagram.
Just the fact that the system was running longer with the circuit then directly on the charged cap says it's got promise, so let's give EM some room to breath.
...
Okay, "many questions." I was not asking for answers quickly, I am not in a hurry. EM can take all the time he needs to inhale and exhale and do whatever else he needs to do along the way.
Perhaps it is just a "capacitor relaxation" circuit; working on the caps ability to bounce back after discharge. Maybe after running for a few minutes/hours this circuit can condition a cap to stop bouncing back and this may be why it does not last all night. Even so, it initially appears that I may not need to run out to the store to purchase any more parts to replicate this one for myself. My excitement caused me to look deeper into the photo and come up with some more questions than the average bear.
Patience guys,Ã, my wife monopolized the computer last night so I couldn't get online much.Ã,Â
For a name for this device, I would say we can useÃ, CRS circuit,Ã, meaningÃ, Charge Recycling Strobe circuit,Ã, or something to that effect.
anyway,Ã, I let the CRS circuit run last night with a bigger capacitor and it ran about 2 or 3 hours.Ã, I had the circuit close to my bed and I glanced at it around 1:30 AM this morning and it was still beating, but very faint.Ã, I now have it beating at about 4 second intervals.Ã,Â
So,Ã, I now know what makes it go and I'll be sharing a diagram in just a moment ..... ....Ã, stay tuned
EM
Hi EM,
many thanks for letting us know.
Please be sure, to not change any parts too much, so you might
loose the right circuit.
Please document all details and parts and locations.
Maybe it also depends on the stray capacitance on the connection
pins on your breadboard.
So better get new parts and leave the old unit as it is working
and try to build a second unit, so you can see, if it will work also,
maybe also on just experimenter pcb circuit boards...
Many thanks again for your hard work.
Regards, Stefan.
Quote from: EMdevices on November 14, 2007, 10:22:44 AM
my wife monopolized the computer last night so I couldn't get online much.
Tell your wife you need the computer for your new baby. I am sure she will understand!
AM
Thank you for your patience everyone.Ã, Here's a visual diagram of the circuit operation.
Component Values:
In the 2.5 hour configuration, I used,Ã, Ã, R = 1 Mohm and C = 1.5 uF
The main electolitic is 1000 uF.
Number of turns:Ã,Â
Ã, Ã, 15 for Recapture coil,
Ã, Ã, 30 for Colector coil (2 coils of 15 turns each),Ã,Â
Ã, Ã, 7Ã, Ã, for Trigger coil
The operation depends on two oscillator types in one circuit: Ã,Â
Ã, 1)Ã, Ã, RELAXATION type oscillatorÃ, (RC time constant determines interval between pulses), andÃ, Ã,Â
Ã, Ã, 2)Ã, Ã, BLOCKING type oscillator, for a one time flux driven triggered pulse (Monostable operation)
Uses for this can be quite varied.Ã, But I'm sure most agree it's a neat simple and efficient way to generate timing pulses for driving other circuits, or just as a fun blinker.Ã, However, since it's so efficient, I believe that it will alow us to find OU operation due to it's sensitivity.
EM
Great design EM !
So you are now using only 3 coils.
Maybe just put a few LEDs in parallel so you get more current from the
spike back into the cap.
Did you try more windings on the last induction coil with the LED ?
Did you try to measure voltage spikes from the last LED coil ?
Regards, Stefan.
Hi EM,
could you please post some scopeshots of the voltage at the base to emitter
and at the LED anode versus emitter ?
This circuit would probably work much better with a big transformer iron core
as you would get much bigger spikes from it.
Regards, Stefan.
@EM
Is that a special type of transistor and also can you say what is the ferrit diameter.
I am thinking if there was a small inductor inside the ferrit core, maybe some extra mag field could be again sent back to the circuit in parallel to the big cap. May be enough to have magnet start.
I'll ask z_p_e about transistors on the Faux Pas thread.
Stefan, I played with the coils a bit, in parallel and series.Ã, The smallest amount of coils needed is 3, but more can be useful for experimenting.Ã, Ã, The center tap on the trigger coil was there from another experiment, and I played with that a bit as well.Ã, The spikes voltage from the kickback rises to Vcap + Vdiode.Ã, Ã, So a diode with the smalles drop would also improve efficiency.Ã, Removing the diode makes it work longer, but you can't see it , what fun is that. (there are still losses so it appears to also come to a stop)Ã, If I don't connect the reclaim coil to the cap and instead to a resistor, then the voltage can go realy high, it's just the normal kickback from an inductor.Ã, Ã, The blocking oscillator function involved in triggering the spike, has a very sharp transition (small risetime and fall time) so this can rise the voltage quite high if not connected to anything. (or high impedance)
wattsup,Ã, the transistor is a simple NPN switching type I bought from radioshack,Ã, Ã, It has aÃ, beta = 200,Ã, Ã, so small base current x 200 gives the collector current.Ã, Ã, pese was suggesting using germanium transistors because they have lower Vce drop and lower Vbe activation voltage.Ã, Ã, I would also say to use a transistor with as high a beta as possible.Ã, Ferrite diameter is about 1.5 inches (about 4 cm)
I'll do some scope shots tonight when I get home.
EM
P.S. In my picture of the circuit, you will see a resistor and diode connected to the main electrolitic, that's a zener diode at 5.5 V and the resistor about 400 ohms. I placed that there for safety, just in case I had a runaway even, shows optimism doesn't it ? LOL :D
@EMDevices
Great stuff mate! I'm glad you decided to upload a schematic and some more info. It gives all of us a chance to replicate what you've achieved and to experiment further. Good on you! ;)
Cheers from the Toad who Hops :)
thanks guys,
here's the scope shots. Notice the time scale is different, I had to zoom way in on the pulse so you can see it's width. Notice how rapidly it turns on and off, it's that feedback from the trigger coil.
EM
@EM
Hope you are getting some sleep.
On the photo there are three wires, yellow, orange and red that seem to be from the trigger coil(s). Is the yellow wire center tapped to the trigger coil?
There are also more resistors on the photo then I can see on the circuit diagram.
Last thing I am asking myself is if this is a sensitive circuit, can all those breadboard internal conductors under the circuit act as a receptor, or maybe an added load mass, that is either helping or hindering in some way the final OU aspect. Are the conductors inside a breadboard magnetic or diamagnetic? Since your coil is vertical over those conductors, there could be some unwanted stray north and south fields going around the breadboard. Geez, am I repeating myself.
Hi EM,
is it possible or legal for you to integrate an suction effect to reinsert the lost electrons?
from a grounded wire or a cube of aluminium?
You know where the electrons are gone?
Maybe as photons when it is fully encapsulated in resin.
Rub the resin and let it go again.
Or use a solar panel housing, the you have got an even better heatpump.
It's your development.
Fantastic principle, first place in my charts.
Maybe integrate it in a Distatica.
Nice day
kaRLfunkel
Many thanks EM for posting all the infos.
Too bad I am not at home for the next 2 days, so I wouldhave already tried your
circuit as I have all components lying around at home.
Hope somebody else will soon replicate it.
Regards, Stefan.
Hi EM,
please can you also show a scopeshot accross
the 1000 uF cap ?
And also one across the trigger coil ?
Maybe also directly also across the other 2coils ?
Many thanks.
P.S: Nobody yet tried to rebuild it ?
Would be interesting to see, if the output coil,
where the LED is connected to, if it had more windings, would
also put out more energy in this spike which recharges the capacitor...
EM, what if you change the 1.5 uF cap to 100nF or lower capacitance and so reduce
the losses and might speed up the frequency ?
@All
Geez, this will be my very first circuit I ever build. I feel like American Idol?s William Hung. Hey "No formal training".
Almost all together. Bought the wrong led. The one shown needs at least 8.5 volts. I guess it should light at around 1 volt. Is it possible to light at less?
On the board I am showing one of many little ready made transformer gadgets that I already had. The blank ferrite core comes from one of these ready made ones. Unwinding those wires are dangerous for your eyes and fingers.
Now the windings are confusing me because the diagram shows three coils, but the photo shows 4 and EM's instructions talk of four. So I am lost at this point and need some clarification. If there are two coils and one trigger, what are the turns?
I also added an enlargement of EM's circuit.
Hi Wattsup,
good to see you working on it.
What kind of LED doyou have ?
Just a normal 5 mm or 3 mm will do, which usually have a treshold voltageof around 2.5 to 2.7 Volts,
before they light up.Some might even need around 3 Volts.
And EMdevices posted his coil specs already, so I quote:
===========================
Component Values:
In the 2.5 hour configuration, I used, R = 1 Mohm and C = 1.5 uF
The main electolitic is 1000 uF.
Number of turns:
15 for Recapture coil,
30 for Colector coil (2 coils of 15 turns each),
7 for Trigger coil
===========================================
So he is using for the collector coil 2 coils in series of each 15 turns giving 30 turns.
I guess for the basic oscillation effect you could play with the number of turns
a bit to get it into oscillation.
The question still is, what the best turn ratios are for this selfrunning
operation..?
Excellent job EM...
I have a question for you...what would happen if you added a second control coil in phase with the first control coil
and located on the opposite side (180 degrees)?
Cheers
Calibrator
@EM
I successfully replicated your circuit today.
I'm getting 14 minutes run time which is probably due to a difference in our core material. Used a mps8099, hfe 154. I tried replacing the led with a germanium diode but it didn't make a significant difference.
Neat circuit - certainly merits further experimenting.
-Duff
Quote from: hartiberlin on November 16, 2007, 04:23:02 AM
Number of turns:
15 for Recapture coil,
30 for Colector coil (2 coils of 15 turns each),
7 for Trigger coil
===========================================
So he is using for the collector coil 2 coils in series of each 15 turns giving 30 turns.
Hi,
Sorry for asking a stupid question.
What does it means by having 2 coil in series of 15 turns each giving 30 turns? Is this the same as 1 coil of 30 turns i.e. double the length of wire of the recapture coil?
I got the circuit to work for something like 3 seconds..... :-( Maybe my core is too big and did not go into saturation. It's a 2.5" dia torroid. I'll use a smaller one and see how it goes? Also, I don't have a 1.5uf cap with me. Only 1uf or 2.2uf. Maybe need some retuning....
Thanks. cp
Quote from: sanmankl on November 17, 2007, 03:10:20 AM
I got the circuit to work for something like 3 seconds..... :-( Maybe my core is too big and did not go into saturation.
You probably don't have the your windings connected correctly.
Assuming all are wound in the same direction, reverse the connection of the trigger winding.
-Duff
@EMDevice
I am trying to begin to make a will your circuit, I would want to ask you some things:
1. What transistor are you using?
2. How do you do start the device?
3. it is possible to use a PNP transistor PNP to place of NPN transistor.
Best regards
Adriano
@all
Well I got mine going and the led blinks for about 4 seconds tried reversing the coils and trigger but best result is as stated. Regardless, this is a major step forward for me personally.
I think my coil wires are too big 18 awg, plus the trigger may be to big also. So I just took apart another ready made coil to get another ferrite and will re-wire with smaller wire.
Still do not understand about the 30 turns of two 15 turns. Geez, does this mean two 15 turns in parallel or is the 30 turns bifilar?
These questions should have been resolved before any build.
Quote from: wattsup on November 17, 2007, 11:28:44 AM
@all
Well I got mine going and the led blinks for about 4 seconds tried reversing the coils and trigger but best result is as stated. Regardless, this is a major step forward for me personally.
I think my coil wires are too big 18 awg, plus the trigger may be to big also. So I just took apart another ready made coil to get another ferrite and will re-wire with smaller wire.
Still do not understand about the 30 turns of two 15 turns. Geez, does this mean two 15 turns in parallel or is the 30 turns bifilar?
These questions should have been resolved before any build.
If you are confused, I'm even more confused given that you have must more experience than I have. Just tried winding onto a 1.5" torroid, 1st layer, 30T, then 15T and lastly, 7T of #26 wire. The wierd thing is that I accidentally connect the 7T (trigger) in place of the 15T, the LED blinks much longer...about 30 seconds.
I'd managed to kill 3 LEDs and a BC337 transistor.....:-) Guess this is what experiments are all about.
Still, I'm confused about the 15T x 2 and 30T....
Maybe somebody or EM can enlighten us?
cp
Quote from: wattsup on November 14, 2007, 12:37:24 AM
@Rosphere
Geez nice work but that's more than a "few" questions. All these would be eventually answered with a diagram.
Just the fact that the system was running longer with the circuit then directly on the charged cap says it's got promise, so let's give EM some room to breath.
@argona369
Can't blame EM for being a realist. He's seen these before only to jump back to say no way. So being the cautious optimist is only the right and responsible thing to do.
Quote from: wattsup on November 17, 2007, 11:28:44 AM
@all
Well I got mine going and the led blinks for about 4 seconds tried reversing the coils and trigger but best result is as stated. Regardless, this is a major step forward for me personally.
I think my coil wires are too big 18 awg, plus the trigger may be to big also. So I just took apart another ready made coil to get another ferrite and will re-wire with smaller wire.
Still do not understand about the 30 turns of two 15 turns. Geez, does this mean two 15 turns in parallel or is the 30 turns bifilar?
These questions should have been resolved before any build.
@wattsup,
This is why I tried to ask as many questions as I could, early on. Many were answered in subsequent posts but some are still unknown. This is why I have not started to replicate it, yet.
I really do appreciate EM Devices' contributions here. He has done a lot of neat things. However, trying to keep pace with him has proven difficult for me in the past; like chasing a deer through the woods after you have been spotted. Key questions were unanswered and reproduction of his results with my incomplete or inaccurate replications were unattainable.
I was not happy when it happened to me before. I am over it now, but wiser. This is a part time gig for most of us and it is difficult to keep up with so many postings in so many topics, (and some folks here visit other forums as well.) Time goes by, life brings distractions, we become interested in other avenues of approach, and we move on.
@EM Devices,
No hard feelings, EM, I understand. If you have some time available, and you are still working on this project, can you please post a top down photo and a photo of the back side of that toroid?
I would really like to have a go at this. It looks interesting, (even if it is just a capacitor relaxer circuit.) :)
Thank you,
Rosphere
Guys -
Just wind 40 turns for you collector. I'm not sure why EM made stated 2 coils of 20 turns each. I guess he will clairify this at some point.
One 40 turn winding will work.
How you connect the winding is important. Look at EM's drawing.
It show the trigger being wound opposite the collector and recapture.
If you wind them all in the same direction and then reverse the connections on the trigger it will work.
I used #22 & #24 wire - worked fine. It appears EM used larger wire.
I've found if you leave a regulated supply or battery connected to the 1000uF cap the oscillator is very stable (1/100).
When mine is running off the cap then the osc starts at 6.9Hz and slowly floats upward for 14 minutes and ending at 7.32 Hz.
-Duff
If you look at the photo EM posted you'll see the initial winding consists of a trifilar(3 conductor) wind. The colors are white, black and blue. He then has an added pickup coil at the top. I make it out as seven turns of magnet wire - center-tapped.(the solder blob) I believe he said part of the above was not connected in the final circuit.
So he is probably only using two conductors of the trifilar winding.
Quote from: duff on November 17, 2007, 01:28:16 PM
When mine is running off the cap then the osc starts at 6.9Hz and slowly floats upward for 14 minutes and ending at 7.32 Hz.
-Duff
Fascinating, 7.32 Hz SCHUMANN RESONANCE !!!!
Hans von Lieven
Well I built my EM replication today...
I used 17 winds each bifilar for the control and 9 winds for the trigger. Wire was 20 gauge, silver plated. I could only get 1 minute 15 seconds for the LED to blink after power was removed. I repeated this test four times, using a stop watch. During that time, my collector of three turns around the diameter of the ferrite using #22 stranded, showed just over 1 volt AC when the power was disconnected.Adding the collector was just an idea I had.
I am now rewinding my mini toroid with magnet wire, 20 gauge, more turns and see if I can increase the time.
Cheers,
Bruce
Hello all,
I have rewound my mini toroid with 20 gauge magnet wire. 30 turns, bifilar, and 10 turns trigger. Length of time the LED blinked, 4 minutes 36 seconds. Repeated this three times, and each time almost exactly 4min 30 sec.
I have another idea, and I am about to test is. Will post idea and results as well as a pic in a few minutes.
Cheers,
Bruce
Quote from: hansvonlieven on November 17, 2007, 04:26:04 PM
Quote from: duff on November 17, 2007, 01:28:16 PM
When mine is running off the cap then the osc starts at 6.9Hz and slowly floats upward for 14 minutes and ending at 7.32 Hz.
-Duff
Fascinating, 7.32 Hz SCHUMANN RESONANCE !!!!
Hans von Lieven
Yeh KneeDeep, I noticed that one too. As always Hans, you've got a great way of zooming in on the "coincidentals".!
I was wondering if anybody might stumble across a self tuning circuit running synchronistically with the earth's natural heatbeat.
Duff, your measurements may have revealed more than you realize. Good on ya, .... KneeDeep........
Oh yeh, Hans, speaking of resonance, I haven't had much time to check out your Keely stuff lately.
I hope you're progressing in a manner you'd like to. Interesting stuff. - Not quite my field so I get a little out of depth......KneeDeep.... when I read some of postings on the Keely forums.
Cheers all from the Toad who Hops
Well,
The best time tonight, no power, LED flashing is 4min 45 sec. I tried a wrap around the circumference in different configuration, but no go. I sure would like to get to that 2.5 hours, EM! ;)
I will be attempting the use of many different capacitors and see if there is any difference. If I beat my 4min 45 second on time, I'll let you know.
Cheers,
Bruce
Hi Guys,
I hope you are having fun playing with electronics and trying to duplicate this circuit.
Nice work duff, I see you've got it working. Very interesting observation that it drifts up to 7.3 Hz, the Schumann Resonance.
I see I might have confused people with the number of turns, but BEP is right on. The 30 turn coil was formed from 2 of the windings on the ferrite which each had 15 turns. That's all. Why did I do that? Just because I wanted more turns so I hooked two coils in SERIES.
The center tap on the top coil was from another project so ignore it, it's not being used.
Bruce, If you want to get a long running time, use a high resistor value and capacitor. In my latest results, I used 1 Mega ohm and played around with a 1.5 uF, 3.3 uF, a 10 uF and 22 uF capacitor. I think the 22 uF gave the longest run time, but the others were impressive too. Think about it, with each pulse some energy is lost, even though it's being recycled. So if you space the pulses apart longer, it lasts longer, at least that's how I think about it. It's that RC time constant concept.
I'll make another photo from the top, and I'll remove that middle tap on the trigger coil.
EM
P.S. Added photo. Notice I removed the center tap on the TOP coil (trigger coil) since it served no function, and also I removed the 400 ohm resistor by the large cap (since I'm convinced now it won't run away LOL ) but I left the diode on the board, since it's frail and I don't want to break the leads off. Basicaly, some of you have the circuit running, and that's all there is to it.
Quote from: EMdevices on November 17, 2007, 10:28:32 PM
Hi Guys,
I hope you are having fun playing with electronics and trying to duplicate....
EMdevices, I think that it is time for you to give your discovery a name.
Paul.
I think this new device is the electronic version of the Rene-Rator...
See it Here: http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p51/renerator/freeenergy.jpg
I think I am getting there, now way over 4 seconds but I have a few questions.
1) My transistor is a 2N-2222. Is this OK.
2) On EM last photo is that red dot near the transistor the smaller cap?
3) When I light the led its bright and then it starts going down until I cannot see it anymore from the side angle, but when I look at it from the top down, it is still somewhat lit. Are you guys counting time looking from the top down.
4) What voltage are you hitting the large cap with?
5) When looking at btenzers' photo, I notice his ferrite core is nice anf black and clean. My ferrite is taken from these ready made hit pot coils that I had on hand but the core is very brittle. Cracked one when trying to saw off a small slice of the ferrite to try something else. (Open loop core) So are there qualities in ferrite material.
Quote from: Pegasus on November 18, 2007, 10:06:58 AM
I think this new device is the electronic version of the Rene-Rator...
See it Here: http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p51/renerator/freeenergy.jpg
I think i have to ask acerzw where he edited his pic from ;)
Carpet blinker.
--giantkiller.
@Wattsup,
Quote from: wattsup on November 18, 2007, 10:14:48 AM
1) My transistor is a 2N-2222. Is this OK.
EM recommended a transistor with a beta of 200+
The 2N-2222 beta can range from 35 to 300 depending on the current and the actual physical device itself.
If you have a transistor with a known typical beta (hfe) around 200 or higher then that would be best.
Quote
2) On EM last photo is that red dot near the transistor the smaller cap?
That is an LED that EM left in the circuit I think he said because of fragile leads
Quote
3) When I light the led its bright and then it starts going down until I cannot see it anymore from the side angle, but when I look at it from the top down, it is still somewhat lit. Are you guys counting time looking from the top down.
As long as you see light from any angle then it's running and count the time.
Quote
4) What voltage are you hitting the large cap with?
I hit mine with 13.0V - fully charged battery
Quote
5) When looking at btenzers' photo, I notice his ferrite core is nice anf black and clean. My ferrite is taken from these ready made hit pot coils that I had on hand but the core is very brittle. Cracked one when trying to saw off a small slice of the ferrite to try something else. (Open loop core) So are there qualities in ferrite material.
There is a entire science behind cores.
Look here: http://www.amidoncorp.com/aai_specifications.htm
A cracked core is not a good thing...
-Duff
<removed>
@Wattsup
I forgot to mention another thing about the 2N2222.
You should also consider the Vce voltage of the transistor you select. The 2n2222 only has a 30V max rating.
I'm seeing spikes at my collector of 200V.
-Duff
HI ROBERT THANKS
I SEE HERE IS FORKING SOMTHING OK
IS GOOD
FOR EM..
EJ MAN WAY YOU NOT TALKING WHIT ME WHERE ARE YOU :) :) :)
IS GOOD YOU MAKE THIS SMALL TPU .
I SEE HERE IN THIS FORUM HAS A PROBLEM HM .......
I NOW WHANT TO SAY END REMEBER THIS TO ALL
WORDS OF SM...... MY DIVICES IS LIKE RECIVERS ;D ;D ;D
... YOU HAVE ENRGY ALL OVER YOU IS THERE >>>>> SM SAID EARTH MAG FILD HMMMMMM
THE PROBLEM IS HOW YOU WHILL MAKE A RECIVERS HMMMM
SM SAID
IF YOU MDE MANY OF THAT THEN I GET SOMTHING HMMMMMMMM
EXPLANE
IF YOU ARE GOOD ELETRONICS MAN AND IF YOU KNOW HOW IS WORKS SIMPLE RECIVER THEN YOU MAKE SOME GOOD RECIVER <<<IM STABILITY RECIVER>>>OK
WAY IS NOT FORKING LONG TIME ANSVER
THIS IS TPU OF MY MAN HAS 2 THINGS <<<<<L AND C>>>>> OK
HOW IS MADE SIMPLE RADIO RECIVER .......>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
YOU MADE COIL AND CAP IN THE PARALEL OR SERILA IS NOT VERY IMPORTANT
THEN IN THIS 2 ELEMENTS YOU CAN CATCH THE SOME FREK.
THE FREK IS DEPENDET OF WHAT IS L AND WHAT IS C THIS IS FOR A THE FREKF
OK WAY IM SAID THIS
IN THIS SIMPLE RECIVER YOU HAVE SOME FREK BUT IS NOT A STABILYTI AND PRECISLY ONE FREK ... THE RECIVERS HAD NO STABYLYI FOR CATHCH THIS FREK
WAY I SAY THIS IF YOU HAVE GOOD RECIVER THIS RECIVER HAS THE SAME 2 ELEMENTS<<L AND C>> BUT AND HE HAS ONE THING ELEMENT HO HAS ABLE TO GET STABILITY TO CATCH SINGLE ONE FREK..
;D ;D ;D
I SAID THIS BEACOUSE THIS
THIS TPU IF ;D IS LIKE RECIVER OF EARTH HZ IS OK BUT HE HAS NOT STABILITY
THAT IS REASONS WAY HE FORK 4 OR 5 OR 2 OR 1 MIN
IF YOU MAKE SIM. RECIVER AND YOU LISTEND THE RADIO ON HIM
WHAT WHILL WE HAPEND
HMMMMMM << FIRST YOU LISTND ONE STATION THEN SOME ONE OR 2 SECOND YOU CAN LISTEN ANTHER STATION AND THEN YOU CAN LISTNED ALL STAIONS IS LIKE YOU MOVE SCALE ALL TIME WHIT NO STOP AND IN THE END YOU CAN LISTEND ALL BUT YOU CAN NOT LISTNED THIS STATION YOU WHANT ;) ;) ;)
THAT IS THE REASONS WAY IS NOT WORKING LONG TIME
I LIKE TO HELP SOME THINGS
IF YOU ARE GOOD ELTRONICMAN YOU CAN FIND A HOW TO TUNE EXSACTLY FREKFENCY YOU WHANT <<EARTH>>> AND YOU WHILL MADE WHIT L AND C IS OK
BUT L MUST BE EXSACTLY IN HENRY AND C IS CAP
AND YOU HAD FORMULA FOR L AND C = EARTH
THEN HOW TO GET ALL TIME YOU RECIVER TO BE A STABILITY TO CATCH THIS HZ HMMMMMM
IN THE END YOU CAN GET ALL TIME THIS LED TO LIGHT ;D ;D ;D
THIS LED IS A HAVE LITLE TIME TO START TO LIGHT THEN IS START TO LIGHT SOME MIN. THEN IS GONE THEN IF YOU WAIT THEN WHILL AGAING MAYBE WHILL COME THE LIGHT AGAIN
LIKE SIMPLE RECIVERS YOU TUNE ONE STATION YOU LISTEND THIS AND THEN ANTHER THEN IS BACK AGAIN THIS STATION AND THEN IS GONE AND.... AGAIN THE SAME THING ALL TIME WHIT WATHING SOME TIME ;D ;D
THAT IS FOR NOW SE YOU IF YOU GET SOME PROGRESS
BY THE WAY
HOW YOU WHILL MAKE A ANTENA FOR YOU RECIVER FOR THIS <<BIG TRANSMITER>>
IS LIKE AAAAAAAA AL OR 8) 8) 8) MANY THANK AND THING OF THIS
GREATHINGS FROM POOR COUNTRY <<MACEDONIA>>
Hey there Macedonia CD,Ã, we'll have to try receivers nextÃ, :)
Guys, I tried my circuit with a regular LED and it didn't last nearly as long.Ã, I think the original LED I have is realy efficient, it has a low voltage drop in forward bias, etc..Ã, It's the small type of LEDs, found it in a box of electronics a friend gave me, so I don't have specs on it.
wattsup,Ã, that red dot next to the transistor is the small cap.Ã, I forgot to mention that I also swaped the caps from the previous picture I posted.Ã, Like duff was saying the other red object is the diode I just left on the board.
So what do we do with this circuit now?Ã, :)
well, I've now been playing with interference of two oscillators and magnets, etc..Ã, I got a setup that produces so much random noise and spikes it's incredible.Ã, I take the LED out and hook up another coil on a ferrite and bring that close to the torroid, and they interfere with themselves and cause havok.Ã, It's very interesting.Ã, It's a mixer all right !!!
EM
Hello,
After some false starts (wire too small, etc), I've managed to get this working. Best time I got is 15 minutes 30 seconds. In the course of switching wires, etc I found out that if I put my led in reverse polarity i.e. anode to coil and cathode to gnd, I don't burn up leds anymore.... 8)
I've also put the led anode (positive) leg to between the R and C and the negative to coil, it blinks as well. I haven't check the time yet but it's much better than the 4 minutes + that I got much earlier. I'm not sure what it will do? increase the run?
I'm charging my capacitor with a 9V battery (more like 8.83V)
Measured the frequency with my DVM across the led and I got 3.4Hz. Transistor is a BC337-25 and RC is 1MOhm and 1uF tantalum.
My attempt is as in the picture.
Regards, cp
@sanmankl
Looking good.
Can you state the coil build, turns, wire type if possible so we can continue to have some comparisons. Your ferrite seems wider than the standard. Where did you take it from.
Quote from: wattsup on November 19, 2007, 09:49:22 AM
@sanmankl
Looking good.
Can you state the coil build, turns, wire type if possible so we can continue to have some comparisons. Your ferrite seems wider than the standard. Where did you take it from.
Hi Wattsup,
My ferrite is OD 20mm, height 10mm and 8mm. The wire is AWG #23. Collector coil is at 40 turn, Recapture is 20 and Trigger at 10. I've also made another one (bigger torroid (dunno the composition but it's not a black ferrite) and the turn is Coll: 55, Recap:at 30 and trig: 10. The performance is much better/longer.
The difference between mine and EM original design is the I reversed the LED because I'd "killed" something like 10 LEDs if I follow EM's circuit.
I'll take a photo of the new one when I have got my camera battery charged up.
My fingers are aching from coiling... ;D
cp
Hello People....
Some time ago,a series of videos was realesed by the CTG Lab group,showing probable "Free Energy devices".One of them shows a little toroidal apparatus that ligths a bulb.You can see it in the attachment...
I have the sempsation that developing the "reciclyng" idea we will be able to reproduce it.
If you look close,you can see a vertical coil between two ferrite rings,and another coil,(horizontal this time),made of few turns, wrapped around the entire toroidal form.This last coil is made with TWO WIRES.On the top there is an eletrolityc capacitor.The juice is taken from one end of the horizontal coil and one end of the vertical coil.May be one of the two wire of the bifilar coil is used as recapture coil?And what happen if the device is tuned with the 7,83 Hz?.I think we will end up with a sort of perpetual generator....
These are just some ideas to try to develope....
Regards,
Pegasus
@pegasus,
This video is not real, I was around when Dave (CTGLAbs) created this, he used a magic bulb for this "Trick". Please do not read into this any further.
Marco did a wonderful Tesla transmitter/receiver as well around the same time. you might still find video's of this as well. Marco's is somewhat related to the TPU but is just an example of one of Tesla's patents.
Hello all,
As Carl said, there is no free energy in my videos, despite other people now on youtube showing my videos as their own and claiming REAL free energy devices, lol!
Again, as Carl said, "these are not the droids your looking for, move along..."
It amazes me that having said many times these devices are not real, people do not believe me and think I am hiding a real device! Perhaps a better point here is, do not believe what you see just because you cannot see how it can be faked. Just because we see the SM TPU working in a video, doesn't mean its not a fake! We have no proof of anything yet spend ours and hundreds of $$ trying to replicate!
Regards,
Dave.
Very strange,Dave.....
So was a joke....
I was induced to belive in it because curious is the fact the the video of the small toroid starts with the device upside down.Then your reverse the position and connect the bulb.That induce me to think that you was kicking aganist some magnetic field....the magnetic field of the Earth!.The pulse you send trougth the coil generate a field that oppose the Earth MF,stretching it.Similar to the Rene-Rator work.Upside down the device works because the poles induce by the magnetosphere are reversed,and the stretching dont happen,and there is no extra power to run continuosly the device.....
@Dave, can you share any work you have done on the ECAT, this is what Doc Stiffler calls it. Looking for a schematic with parts list if possible.
Hi,
It was not meant as a joke. I was indeed working on the TPU for over a year, then I saw how it could be faked and so could the videos from SM. It was more an example to show people that you should not believe in what you see just like that and I never claimed there was FE. I told everyone there was no FE from the start. In fact I changed my mind about posting it straight away and took them down mins after, but of course, beady eyes on the forum saved a copy in that brief time and then it was too late!
Yes, I did turn the unit over in the video, but again... NO FREE ENERGY. I cannot be anymore clear can I ?!!
Regards,
Dave.
Hello Carl,
I must say that during the main part of this year I have returned to study and have not performed any experiments, but instead decided to increase my knowledge base.
I have ordered a couple of cores from Dr Lowe though, and they are on the way. However my feelings at the moment is that there is measurement error due to RF frequencies.
For starters a solar panel closed loop will not work even if there is OU present because the panel only converts 15% of the light, so even with a 10% OU, it will still run down because it will only serve to decrease the loses slightly!
Having said that, I do not want to get burned for saying its a load of crap without having tested it for myself, which I will do. But my feelings are that there is nothing there... In any case this is the EMdevices thread and not Dr Stiflers so I shall reserve any further comment on that to that thread.
Regards,
Dave.
Sorry about the following post as ti diverges the thread ... but hopefully there will be not so many of them ...
Quote... I saw how it could be faked ...
What exactly "lighting the light bulb" or the "powering of the TV" or "cutting the TPU" or some of the other experiments. Eventually EVERYTHING can be sad to be possible for faking. Interesting that even people can decide to show "fake Tesla experiments"or "fake powerless transmission" ( Sorry Tesla )
Sorry Dave, do not mean to come hard on you but at least the people here, supposedly who understand the IDEA of OU and who are trying to build something, will have to be more tuned to the possible disinformation and to any consequences of that.
Best
The trouble with decetiopn is that the deceiver can never believe any thing that any body ever tells tem ever again.
Great little torriod experiments going, on they look just like the centre coils almost in all the videos...
Welcome back Dave and Mannix.
yup.....
Just spiked it with 3 vdc and counted 2 minutes 40 seconds. Now I can play, or should I say, "Oh no, not more homework".
@Mannix
Do you think you can re-write your first sentence more clearly.
As for the center coils, I saw that right away, this could be the TPU start up.
@alls
Questions:
1) Since I do not see the led blinking, does this mean that the transistor base is always receiving a current from the trigger coil.
2) If the transistor is acting like an amplifier, what if you put more transistors in a row. I guess you would still need more power to run more bases.
I can't wait to get some real ferrites.
I want to also put open ended collectors or plates, one on each side of the large capacitor. Like the Tesla radiant energy patent uses a cap and some mechanical switching.
Found this guy on ebay from Lithuania. Lots of neat do-dads.
http://stores.ebay.com/KW-TUBES/
Does anyone know what this is? Russian Military Grade klystron K-166B
http://cgi.ebay.com/REFLEX-KLYSTRON-K-113-Military-grade_W0QQitemZ200174270045QQihZ010QQcategoryZ4660QQcmdZViewItem
@EM
About your PS: on the Discussion thread, if this little bugger can really start to move stronger currents, you could make your own vortex.
@wattsup
@EMDevice
@sanmanki
I propose a simple test:
To replace the condenser from 1000 mF with a smaller, for instance 500 mF, so that to verify if it varies the duration of operation on the device and than it varies.
The test can be repeated reducing the condenser more and more.
Is possible to repeat the test with a bigger condenser.
With this test it is possible to clarify the origin of the energy of operation, if the time of operation tightly depends on the consenser capacity, it is evident that the condenser from 1000mF plays a fundamental role. Otherwise it is very probable that energy comes indeed produced by the spool.
is it possible to replace, in the circuit, the transistor with a MOS-FET for instance 2N7000 ?
@abassign
Good idea for later but right now I am trying to stay above water, let alone change my life jacket. I think I need a little more time to work this.
But here's another question added to those above.
3) When I look at EMs diagrams 1 to 3, the step 3 shows the led being lit. But since the led is going through the brown coil straight from positive to negative, is'nt the large capacitor the one driving the led directly, and not really through the transistor section?
Hello all,
Perhaps a minor little discovery. I reversed the transistor, leaving the base the same, but changing the emitter wire to the collector and the collector wire to the emitter. It made the LED much brighter, and doubled the run time.
EM or Duff, perhaps you can try this and verify. Thank you.
Cheers,
Bruce
@btentzer
Is very nice experiment, in an other post you tell that the LED blinked 4 minutes and 36 seconds, the blinking time is cange ?
Is it possible make this simple test:
Replace the condenser from 1000 mF with a smaller, for instance 500 mF, so that to verify if it varies the duration of operation on the device and than it varies.
The test can be repeated reducing the condenser more and more.
Is possible to repeat the test with a bigger condenser.
With this test it is possible to clarify the origin of the energy of operation, if the time of operation tightly depends on the consenser capacity, it is evident that the condenser from 1000mF plays a fundamental role. Otherwise it is very probable that energy comes indeed produced by the spool.
@ abbasign
I will try that when I have more caps. I only have 1000 uf electrolytics that I bought for this experimental circuit and a ton of tiny ceramic caps that I had.
What I have just done is put two transistors in parallel, hooked up the original way that EM drew the circuit. My time is at 8min 19 sec. and still going. Wattsup had this idea and posted it earlier.
I will post the final time.
Cheers,
Bruce
EDIT: I miswrote, I have both transistors hooked up OPPOSITE the way drawn on the schematic. I am at 12 minutes 18 seconds and still going.
2nd EDIT: 15 minutes 30 seconds and still going...
LAST EDIT: Final time 18 minutes 3 seconds. ;D
Yet another member I and many others will never trust or take seriously again.
If anyone else is considering a hoax to prove a point, try calling the topic something like "How easy it is to fake a TPU"
This might actually be productive. Otherwise, please don't bother. Every day the current power brokers of this world are in power is another day one of my brothers is murdered in wars for oil, another day our home on this planet is raped, another day a family member is diagnosed with an incurable disease caused by environmental toxins.
Nice job.
Pardon my venting
I would understand your point if it weren't for the fact I told everyone from the start that it wasn't real and I took it down moments after posting it. I never claimed that it was real though...!
In any case I am sorry you feel that way and I apologise to anyone else who I offended at that time. After a year out to go back to study I was about to re-launch myself back in to experimentation. Perhaps I should re-consider my decision to do this...
(expecting a comment from the infamous Dean McGowan now...)
Regards,
Dave.
Bruce, are you using PNP transistors? It would seem you have to from your description, else, you must have a different connection. You can put the coil in the Collector circuit or the Emitter circuit, but that's different then reversing the Collector and Emiter from my diagram. then you will have an Emitter hooked up to the (+) side, is that what you have?
abassign, I played around with the capacitors, read my explanation. Do you know what a RC time constant is? If you use smaller capacitors they charge faster and hence the frequency is HIGHER. Read up on Relaxation oscillators.
singerxyz, nobody is faking anything here, we are trying to find the "cure", I'm with you on the state of affairs in the world and the need for change.
EM
@btenzer
Good move. I will be trying this tonight. I will also try with a standard Toroid transformer that has 1 primary and two secondaries. I guess the ferrite in there will be better then what I have on hand.
@CTG Labs
Don't bother with anyone saying this or that. Everyone has the right to question the validity. I have also.
Ultimately I asked myself this one question.
With all we know today about the TPU, does knowing it is a fake or if it is real change the difficulty in developing such a device. Probably not. The information given is finite and we push the limits to see more and more. If it is fake, then ours will be real. If it is real, then ours will be better.
@singerxyz
I am sure people here think about those things every day, every time something else is tried, every time something else is discovered, like an internal or subconscious permanent Mantra. Hommmmmmmmmm.
Advice..... if you want change, next time vote for an independent.
@EM
My question #3 (previous page) still giving me some trouble. I seems that LED should be on the switching side of the diagram and not on the side of the large cap. But you know, I have been known to be wrong (at least once). lol
Or, maybe you guys are working off a new diagram I am not aware of.
@EM
Quotenobody is faking anything here, we are trying to find the "cure",
I second that.
C
Wattsup, the LED is only lit when the mag field collapses and it sends a pulse UPWARDS in the diagram, meaning the bottom of the diode becomes (+) positive and then it conducts. Notice the LED polarity carefully, it blocks the DC voltage. The transistor is on it's on coil, separate from the diode. Hope that helps.
EM
Quote from: EMdevices on November 20, 2007, 01:23:47 PM
Bruce, are you using PNP transistors? It would seem you have to from your description, else, you must have a different connection. You can put the coil in the Collector circuit or the Emitter circuit, but that's different then reversing the Collector and Emiter from my diagram. then you will have an Emitter hooked up to the (+) side, is that what you have?
abassign, I played around with the capacitors, read my explanation. Do you know what a RC time constant is? If you use smaller capacitors they charge faster and hence the frequency is HIGHER. Read up on Relaxation oscillators.
singerxyz, nobody is faking anything here, we are trying to find the "cure", I'm with you on the state of affairs in the world and the need for change.
EM
Hi EM,
I am using Radio Shack, NPN 200 type transistors.
It was a shock that two worked so well!
Bruce
Here are the two transistors.
@EM
I totally forgot a LED is also a diode. (Slap on the forehead, eyes rolled upwards.)
@btenzer
From the photo, did you just place the second diode in parallel to the first one.
Also, where did you get your ferrite. I looks really nice and thick.
@ Wattsup
I bought the ferrite from Electronics Parts Outlet (EPO) in Houston, TX. It is nice, for 1.99 US
And yes, both transistors are in parallel and reversed from the drawing, as far as emitter and collector.
Cheers,
Bruce
Quote from: btentzer on November 20, 2007, 11:48:56 AM
Hello all,
Perhaps a minor little discovery. I reversed the transistor, leaving the base the same, but changing the emitter wire to the collector and the collector wire to the emitter. It made the LED much brighter, and doubled the run time.
EM or Duff, perhaps you can try this and verify. Thank you.
Cheers,
Bruce
@Bruce
I spite of thinking it wouldn't work I tried it any way.
Sorry to report my circuit will not run in that config....
-Duff
Quote from: CTG Labs on November 20, 2007, 01:21:49 PM
I would understand your point if it weren't for the fact I told everyone from the start that it wasn't real and I took it down moments after posting it. I never claimed that it was real though...!
In any case I am sorry you feel that way and I apologise to anyone else who I offended at that time. After a year out to go back to study I was about to re-launch myself back in to experimentation. Perhaps I should re-consider my decision to do this...
(expecting a comment from the infamous Dean McGowan now...)
Regards,
Dave.
I always enjoyed your wealth of knowledge and contributions. We all fall of the rails sometimes ;)
Welcome back.
@ Duff
It could be because my ferrite is different and wound differently, I do not know. I am including a full "top down" picture. C is a 1.5 uf. EM suggested a 2.2 uf but I can't get a hold of one of those until tomorrow.
My transistors are indeed reversed. I touch my leads to a nine volt battery for a second and it is off and running. I tried to add a 'third' transistor, but nothing happened at all, that I could see. The LED would not light or blink at all.
I have added two more 1000 mf caps in parallel with the first one. So two are electrolytic and one is not. I do not know if this is "cheating" or not, ;D but it increased my run time from 18 minute 2 seconds to my new record for no battery as 38 minutes 5 seconds.
EDIT: I have removed one of the 1000 uf caps and am testing with only two of them in parallel. I have removed the non electrolytic capacitor. The LED would not light just with it alone, so I speculate it may not be doing any good there at all. I will post the time trial upon completion.
Quote from: btentzer on November 20, 2007, 11:36:01 PM
@ Duff
It could be because my ferrite is different and wound differently, I do not know. I am including a full "top down" picture. C is a 1.5 uf. EM suggested a 2.2 uf but I can't get a hold of one of those until tomorrow.
My transistors are indeed reversed. I touch my leads to a nine volt battery for a second and it is off and running. I tried to add a 'third' transistor, but nothing happened at all, that I could see. The LED would not light or blink at all.
I have added two more 1000 mf caps in parallel with the first one. So two are electrolytic and one is not. I do not know if this is "cheating" or not, ;D but it increased my run time from 18 minute 2 seconds to my new record for no battery as 38 minutes 5 seconds.
EDIT: I have removed one of the 1000 uf caps and am testing with only two of them in parallel. I have removed the non electrolytic capacitor. The LED would not light just with it alone, so I speculate it may not be doing any good there at all. I will post the time trial upon completion.
Bruce,
You can think of your 1000uF caps as the battery, so if you have two in parallel you have 2000uf and that would account for the longer run time...
As for the circuit working with the transistor reversed I really don't understand how.
Can you read the exact part number off the transistor? I know you said radio shack npn 200 but I don't think that is the full number.
-Duff
With the use of only two electrolytic capacitors, rated both at 1000 uf and the removal of the non electrolytic third cap in parallel, the finshed run time was 36 minutes, 44 seconds.
Cheers,
Bruce
EDIT: @ Duff
it says NPN Type switching transistors (pkg of 15)
Silicon: NPN
typical hfe 200
Vce 30V
Ic 800ma
Power dissipation: 1.8W
ALSO, I now have one transistor facing one way and the other facing the opposite direction in parallel and the LED is blinking away. ;D I don't know what this means, either, but it is fun. LOL
nice work guys
i think if you look hard enough you will find a unit verry simple and far more powerful already posted
;D
with 1 flick or 2 i put 100's volts into a cap i could drain off for hours lol!!!
never mine loop a small fraction back in to do it agin ;D
but it is what we learn that matters ;)
keep up the great work !!!!
isteam!!
@btentzer
"I have added two more 1000 mf caps in parallel with the first one. So two are electrolytic and one is not. I do not know if this is "cheating" or not, Grin but it increased my run time from 18 minute 2 seconds to my new record for no battery as 38 minutes 5 seconds."
This is a problem... If do you duplicate the capacity and duplicate the runngin time, there is the suspect that energy is drain from the caps...
- You can communicate me what the frequency of pulsation is.
- Do you last every cycle, which is the time in which the LED has turned on?
Can you measure the tension to the heads of the condenser from the 1000 microF?
- How vary the tension to the heads of the cap ?
My questions are evident, if the cycle is brief, but the LED does only a brief flash, here justified the longer time of operation.
Quote from: innovation_station on November 21, 2007, 02:14:48 AM
i think if you look hard enough you will find a unit verry simple and far more powerful already posted
isteam!!
How about posting a link ?!
Hello All,
Well, I need to report that I hooked up a second LED in series with the first, and both worked with one capacitor for 17minutes 52 seconds. This was with my double transistor configuration in parallel. These are wired the right way. In reverse, only one works. one proper and one facing each other, if the one facing is added after LED starts to blink, and then two in parallel wired according to diagram. Please disregard any other statements. I went back and rechecked and this is what works. Three transistors in parallel will not work.
My next step is to add as many LED's as possible in series and time it. Then to add a second ferrite, like a tuning fork and see if I can receive any oscillations on it.
Cheers,
Bruce
EDIT: Third LED in series added. Total run time for all three was 16 minutes, 40 seconds
Quote from: btentzer on November 21, 2007, 12:32:33 AM
EDIT: @ Duff
it says NPN Type switching transistors (pkg of 15)
Silicon: NPN
typical hfe 200
Vce 30V
Ic 800ma
Power dissipation: 1.8W
ALSO, I now have one transistor facing one way and the other facing the opposite direction in parallel and the LED is blinking away. ;D I don't know what this means, either, but it is fun. LOL
Bruce,
If you have two facing each other then only one is doing the work.
As far as the circuit working with one transistor connected backwards I don't see how.
Recheck you inductor connections and be sure it is wired like you think it is.
Maybe the attached schematic will help...
@all
I get the sense some think this circuit is doing more that it really is.
It is a simply an efficient pulser circuit.
Quote from: EMdevices on November 14, 2007, 11:24:37 AM
The operation depends on two oscillator types in one circuit:
1) RELAXATION type oscillator (RC time constant determines interval between pulses), and
2) BLOCKING type oscillator, for a one time flux driven triggered pulse (Monostable operation)
Uses for this can be quite varied. But I'm sure most agree it's a neat simple and efficient way to generate timing pulses for driving other circuits, or just as a fun blinker. However, since it's so efficient, I believe that it will alow us to find OU operation due to it's sensitivity.
EM
-Duff
@ Duff
I pulled out both transistors from the bread board. I took one transistor, turned it around and replaced it in the same three holes. I fired up the board and off it pulses. But now with three LED's, it only worked for about 1.5 minutes.
@ All
I agree with Duff. No one claims this is OU. But it is simple to build for us who are not electronic engineers, and honestly, it is fun to experiment with.
My next goal is to see how many LED's I can hook in series. Then add the additional ferrite.
Cheers and Happy Thanksgiving to everyone,
Bruce
P>S Duff,
My L1 and L2 are exactly equal as to number of turns. Also my C2 is 1.5uf
@btentzer and @duff
Yesterday I went and got a torroid transformer input 110VAC - two ouputs 8.2 and 12vac. Anyways I took it apart to get the ferrite core. I managed to salvage the secondary winds, but the primary was really a mess to take off.
It is about 2.75'" OD by 1.75" ID and .5" thick.
I will wind this tonight to do some tests.
I hope this new ferrite has a better uH then what I have now. I think Duff mentioned there are ferrites with upto 480 uH and his was around 150 something. My current ferrite should then be a 2. lol
What would you say would be a good winding strategy? If the second coil wound over the first or in between. I see btentzers' trigger is not going over the first two windings, while EMs trigger coil is wound over the coils.
I agree this is not OU also, but it is a good point to start from. I will eventually try my Cook coils on this on the supply side, maybe even one on each side since I have three of them lying around.
Quote from: wattsup on November 21, 2007, 11:37:38 AM
@btentzer and @duff
What would you say would be a good winding strategy? If the second coil wound over the first or in between. I see btentzers' trigger is not going over the first two windings, while EMs trigger coil is wound over the coils.
Wattsup,
I can tell you what I did but of course there are many ways it can be done.
I started winding 10 turns of the collector first.
Then included the recapture winding along with the collector for the next 20 turns (bifilar).
I ended winding the last 10 turns of the collector by itself.
I then went back and wound 8 turns of the trigger winding interspersed between the other collector/recapture at the center of those windings. That way your not winding on top of the other windings and you've layed it down on the toroid.
-Duff
Quote from: wattsup on November 21, 2007, 11:37:38 AM
@btentzer and @duff
Yesterday I went and got a torroid transformer input 110VAC - two ouputs 8.2 and 12vac. Anyways I took it apart to get the ferrite core. I managed to salvage the secondary winds, but the primary was really a mess to take off.
It is about 2.75'" OD by 1.75" ID and .5" thick.
I will wind this tonight to do some tests.
I hope this new ferrite has a better uH then what I have now. I think Duff mentioned there are ferrites with upto 480 uH and his was around 150 something. My current ferrite should then be a 2. lol
What would you say would be a good winding strategy? If the second coil wound over the first or in between. I see btentzers' trigger is not going over the first two windings, while EMs trigger coil is wound over the coils.
I agree this is not OU also, but it is a good point to start from. I will eventually try my Cook coils on this on the supply side, maybe even one on each side since I have three of them lying around.
Wattsup,
I wound bifilar for exactly half the ferrite core, then taped then ends, all very nice. Then wound the trigger on the middle of the second half.
I too have some ideas to test it with.
Bruce
Hi all:
Since this is wound on a ferite core, has anyone here used a ferite magnet in its place yet? I have a few from old MW's around here some place and think I might try that. May be polarity sensitive due to the magnet pole. Guess we'll see.
thaelin
Hi Thaelin,
That sounds like a very good experiment. I look very forward to hearing the results. Remember our "same signals, different source"? I am thinking of building a second circuit and testing that as well.
Bruce
Hi all,
I'm very interested in this circuit, but I need to get the components to build. I joined this forum to get involved with this project.
Here is a test circuit that takes out the coil.. this can be used to measure the efficiency of the coil, by measuring the time the LED will flash with and without the coil.
Replace the coils with a 470 ohm resistor.
4Tesla
Edit: I was looking at the circuit.. might have to turn the LED around... This hasn't been tested. The circuit might need to be modified, but we need a test circuit without the coil for a reference. If someone gets one working can you please post. Thanks.. 4Tesla
Edit #2: EM pointed out the circuit won't work.. I believe there needs to be another resister in series with the transistor.
4Tesla, welcome to the forum.
I suggest you simulate your circuits before you try and build them.Ã, You may find your circuit burns transistors. Might be cheaper for you. LOL :)
EM
LOL.. ;D
I don't have a simulator. Yea, that would be a direct short.. maybe add a resistor in series. I know basic electronics, but my knowledge is not as advanced as you and has been quit a few years since I've played with electronics. Do you have a working circuit without the coil? What I am trying to get is the efficiency of the coil. What gauge wire did you use on the coil?
Thanks,
4Tesla
Edit: Any recommendations on an inexpensive simulator. - Thanks, 4Tesla
@Folks
If you connect a simple NPN tranny backwards and leave the base open you have the beginnings of an NRO (Negative Resistance Oscillator).
If I remember correctly a flashing LED is basically that but includes the 'Light Emitting' part.
Now lets say you have a flashing LED and a common transistor oscillator working together and what do you get? In most cases two frequencies. We all know what happens when you have two frequencies along the same path (generally speaking of course!). The result is a third and very likely more frequencies.
Now if you have a two freqency oscillator it is most likely performing as a Van der Pol oscillator.
I can't say EM's circuit is all of the above but a Van der Pol is quite fun and has very interesting results and so do NRO's.
Things that may be worth considering ^
@btentzer:
Please put your LEDs all in parallel instead of in series. This should increase the running time.
Good luck.
Hello all,
I hooked up 10 LED's in series, two clear, one red and seven yellow. Total run time was almost 7 minutes.
Next I replaced the 1.5uf cap with the 2.2uf cap as suggested by EM. I am testing that with two of my clear, red blinking LED's. The total run time is 15 minutes, 10 seconds and this is still with my double transistors in parallel, hooked according to EM's schematic. This is actually three minutes less run time than with the 1.5uf cap, go figure.
@ Stefan,
Next I will test two in parallel as you suggest, and then all ten.
Cheers,
Bruce
@ Stefan
I have completed the first test, using the 2.2uf cap, and the two LED's in parallel. They ran for 17minutes, 1 second, compared with nearly 18 minutes in series, using the 1.5uf cap. I am going to retest now, with the 1.5uf cap to replace the 2.2uf cap. I will post the results here as an EDIT:
Warm regards,
Bruce
EDIT 1:
Okay, I replaced the 2.2uf with the 1.5uf and ran the identical test. The time finished was 19 minutes, 20 seconds. (Remember, two diodes in parallel and two transistors in parallel) A new record for my device with only one 1000uf cap in place. So my question to you EE guys, "Why didn't the 2.2uf cap give a longer run time, as it should have based on R C constant? ???
@ All
I bought the second ferrite and have some ideas to put it into the loop. I won't bore you with the details unless it works, then I will post it. But that is my next test. It will take a bit to wind the second toroid the way I have in my mind.
HEY
MAY YOU TRAED TO PUT RESITOR IN PARALEL WHIT THE CAP AND TUNE WHIT MORE PRICISLY TO GET MORE TIME TO LIGHT THIS LED ;)
HEY
YOU MAKE MORE TURNS IN YOURS EXIT COILS AND YOU PUT LED IN SERIAL WHIT SOME RESISTOR LIKE 10 OHM BUT YOU MAKE MORE TURNS IN THE EXIT COIL
:) :) :)
YOU MUST TO CHARGE THE EXIT CAP WHIT MORE VOLTAGE 2 TIMES BIGER THEN YOU START WHIT IN ENERGY
THEN YOU CAN GET MORE TIME BUT YOU MUST PUT RESISTOR IN SERIAL WHIT LED TRAED THIS AND SEE
Quote from: MACEDONIA CD on November 21, 2007, 08:32:18 PM
HEY
MAY YOU TRAED TO PUT RESITOR IN PARALEL WHIT THE CAP AND TUNE WHIT MORE PRICISLY TO GET MORE TIME TO LIGHT THIS LED ;)
Hey Macedonia CD,
I tried resistors in parallel and nothing worked until I put a Mega Ohm resistor in parallel, then the LED's started up. I am timing it now. After, I will try the same test with them in series and will post the results.
Cheers,
Bruce
EDIT:13 minutes, 46 seconds. No improvement, but much worse. Good idea any way MCD! ;)
@ EM
I think that I may have proven that the coils are indeed involved in the extended lighting of the LED's.
I had the two LED's in parallel, and then changed two things. This increased my best time by just over 20%. My best time had been 19 minutes, twenty seconds. With the following two changes, it stopped working at 24minutes, 27 seconds.
Change 1: I noticed that my transistors did not have identical numbers on them. I dug through my loose pile of transistors and used two with the number 130 on them, in parallel, wired according to EM's schematic.
Change 2: I took my second ferrite toroid, (a blank, no windings yet!) identical to the first, and simply laid it on top of the other. I used a small piece of 20 gauge magnet wire to wrap one turn around the two of them to hold them in place, then ends wired to nothing.
And my time has increased by just over 20%! ;D Now, I am thinking, if it is just the slow discharge of a cap, neither of those changes would have affected it at all. So, I am thinking this is proof that the ferrite toroid is indeed active. This is really getting interesting, now.
I think that next I will build an exact duplicate of my first coil. Making sure wire turn direction, number of wraps, etc. are identical. I will then place this on top of my first one and wire it in exact parallel. The next experiment will be to wire it in parallel but next to the first one, and see the time differences. Lastly I am building an exact duplicate circuit, that will be powered from a "different" battery. Each coil will then feed back into the other and will have a tap to light a large bank of LED's. Lastly I will add an AM radio coil and "tune" the circuit. But one thing at a time.
Cheers, and good night!
Bruce
EDIT: I have now ruled out the additional ferrite blank above the wound one as to making any difference. It seems, that matching the transistors exactly gave an additional 20% operating time. I need EM or Duff to come up with a replacement type transistor. Something better, so that two in parallel are not needed. They seem to play a big role in "length of operating time".
@btentzer
Great stuff indeed.
I just put my trigger coil on my new big ferrite and wanted to see how sensitive it was. Placing the coil flat so the trigger is a 6 o'clock, I put a compass at 9 o'clock at 1 inch distance. I could move the compass with only .1 vdc. I tried the same thing on my small coil set-up and the trigger got active on the ferrite at .6 vdc. So I am very happy to see this ferrite has alot of capacity (depth to hold and/or transfer a charge).
A toroidal transformer has to have an extremely efficient ferrite if it is too replace the bulky and heavy mass of a regular laminated core transformer while converting the same amount of power. I'm sure this will be an advantage.
Have you tried a 3904 NPN transistor?
4Tesla
In any way.
this will not give mor power aut
that you ahrge in the capacatior before.
this is nothing es than an smal inverter
(even if you think , to becomes back-EMK)
Pese
Hi All!
I built this micro TPU. I changed the 1000uF cap to 0.22F/5.5V memory cap. It's flashing (about 2Hz) more than 10 hours! The collector coil is 15 turn, LED coil is 2x15 turn (serial). The three coils are trifilar wounded. The input current from the cap is 0.018mA (if flashing the LED). But I removed the LED the input current increase to 0.042mA.]
this circuit may well be a relaxer, oscillator or inverter in its current form, but i am seriously interested to see what happens with the double configuration - a.k.a: the renerator
i think btentzer is getting close, but lets not forget the diagram also shows permanent magnets.
this may be of further interest:
http://www.zpenergy.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=2087
i am going to order some parts now!
Quote from: eon on November 22, 2007, 05:36:29 AM
this circuit may well be a relaxer, oscillator or inverter in its current form, but i am seriously interested to see what happens with the double configuration - a.k.a: the renerator
i think btentzer is getting close, but lets not forget the diagram also shows permanent magnets.
this may be of further interest:
http://www.zpenergy.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=2087
i am going to order some parts now!
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1640.0.html
Quote from: btentzer on November 21, 2007, 08:20:27 PM
EDIT 1:
Okay, I replaced the 2.2uf with the 1.5uf and ran the identical test. The time finished was 19 minutes, 20 seconds. (Remember, two diodes in parallel and two transistors in parallel) A new record for my device with only one 1000uf cap in place. So my question to you EE guys, "Why didn't the 2.2uf cap give a longer run time, as it should have based on R C constant? ???
Hi Bruce,
easy answer:
the bigger the RC cap the more charge you waste and discharge the main el. cap.
Keep this cap small and you will not loose too much energy from the main cap.
Maybe this circuitcan be build with a low RDon PowerMOSFET ?
Can anybody redesign it to use an IRF 840 or simular ?
I will try it also with this a MOSFET soon, when I am finished with the Dr. STiffler-circuit.
Maybe one could use the circuit from Marcus Wagner , look here:
http://flickr.com/photos/18346774@N00/412722906/
It has only 2 coils but a third coil could easily be added..
and the also the backcharging via the LEDs could be added.
Regards, Stefan.
Ok, I got an idea... why not use the tpu and change the core (different core) somewhat to run a very small pulse motor that also picks off the backemf and recharges the tpu????? i've built many small ones that take less then 50ma to work, but the momentum and recovery backemf is very cool.
think i'm going to go build one now!
Just a thought... ::)
Quote from: sanmankl on November 19, 2007, 12:56:04 PM
Quote from: wattsup on November 19, 2007, 09:49:22 AM
@sanmankl
Looking good.
Can you state the coil build, turns, wire type if possible so we can continue to have some comparisons. Your ferrite seems wider than the standard. Where did you take it from.
made another one (bigger torroid (dunno the composition but it's not a black ferrite) and the turn is Coll: 55, Recap:at 30 and trig: 10. The performance is much better/longer.
The difference between mine and EM original design is the I reversed the LED because I'd "killed" something like 10 LEDs if I follow EM's circuit.
Here's my latest test/setup.
It's a green colour core, 27mm OD. Collector:33 turns, Recapture 16 turns and Trigger at 10 turns. The odd turns is due to the extra length of wire that I cut.
Transistor is BC548.
LED positive is connected between the 1MOhm resistor and 1uF Tantalum and negative (cathode) to the collector coil. 1000uF main cap.
Charged up with 2 x AA battery (2.76V) and I got 8 min 20s
Second test. Changed the coils from copper winding wires to "iron" single-core insulated wires for both collector and trigger coil. I think the metal is the same as the garden tie wire. The Recapture coil is some sort of alloy (aluminium?) wire. Same charged up with 2 x AA batt. I now got 15m 30s.
Third test.
Charge main cap with a 12V battery.
Run time 33m.
Interesting isn't it? Look's like higher resistance wire gives better results and not proportional to the voltage.....
Need to run more tests, maybe with a 2N7000 FET and a BC337-25 (higher hfe).
Cheers and happy thanksgiving to those who celebrates it.
cp
Quote from: scorpio on November 22, 2007, 05:07:54 AM
Hi All!
I built this micro TPU. I changed the 1000uF cap to 0.22F/5.5V memory cap. It's flashing (about 2Hz) more than 10 hours! The collector coil is 15 turn, LED coil is 2x15 turn (serial). The three coils are trifilar wounded. The input current from the cap is 0.018mA (if flashing the LED). But I removed the LED the input current increase to 0.042mA.]
@Scorpio
Nice run time. Would you please recheck the value of the 0.22F cap. If it were really 0.22F it would be huge...
-Duff
@Duff
Yes, is it really 0.22 Farad! = 220000uF/5.5V
More experiment coming soon...
scorpio
Quote from: duff on November 22, 2007, 10:36:44 AM
@Scorpio
Nice run time. Would you please recheck the value of the 0.22F cap. If it were really 0.22F it would be huge...
-Duff
Hi Duff, here is a 0.22F cap sizes:
http://heter.en.alibaba.com/product/50165398/201192091/Super_Capacitors/Super_capacitor.html
is that huge?
(One more interesting link: http://www.tearsoffire.org/twiki/bin/view/Projects/WindupFlashlight )
Gyula
Hi sanmankl,
higher resistant wires will bring great experiences at high voltages.
Please read more theory in Mr. Newman's Patent.
Do you remember the Newman motor?
It's running with a 1,5V Battery, but only when verry thin wires are used.
The target is near.
Best wishes
Karl
@ All,
Happy holidays!
I want to clarify what I am looking for through this experiment, aside from the good time it affords. I am looking for interaction of the toroid to increase the run time. We can add any number of caps to increase the run time, but that is no different from running with a battery. The run time for scorpio is great, but a result of a super capacitor, not the coil. So please remember, we need coil(s) interaction and/or changes in types of wire to make a difference in run time. Also the use of magnet(s) to affect operation time.
The fact that the Hz is close to 7.3 is also of prime interest to those of us working on the SM tpu.
@ Sanmanki
I think that you are onto something by switching the wire from copper to iron. If you could post a link to where you bought your iron wire, that would be great. You double your time by changing wire. In my mind this is huge. I would also suggest an attempt be made using Nickel wire. Some of us believe SM's first TPU had either iron and copper or iron and aluminum. There were for sure two metals involved, and this from SM.
Cheers,
Bruce
Quote from: btentzer on November 22, 2007, 12:15:40 PM
Sanmankl i think that you are onto something by switching the wire from copper to iron. If you could post a link to where you bought your iron wire, that would be great. You double your time by changing wire. In my mind this is huge. I would also suggest an attempt be made using Nickel wire. Some of us believe SM's first TPU had either iron and copper or iron and aluminum. There were for sure two metals involved, and this from SM.
Hi Bruce,
What got me to change my wire from copper to something else is because I believe that the winding/turn is too few to generate sufficient magnetic field. Also, copper is non-ferrous metal and does not have magnetic properties. I thought that if I change the wire to a magnetic one, the field might be stronger and that my recapture wire can "capture" it? Also, resistance is higher (reducing the current and voltage?), sort of an inline choke?
Sorry. No link from where I buy my wires for I got it at a small electronics store. It's sold everywhere (from where I'm located) If you want, I can post a picture of the wires. I'm going over to the shop to see if I can get the wire in a spool? (I got mine years ago in loose pack, no spool) and if so, I'll take a picture of the spool, hopefully with the label on it. I believe my trigger wire is made from aluminium for when I scratch it, it's still shiny all the way in.
I'm going to rewind the coil with 30 turns of aluminium wire and 15 turns of iron to see if there's a difference?
As for nickel wire, that's a good suggestion. It's on my shopping list.
By the way, I'd tried using a 2N7000 FET. It does blink but the run time is pathetic. Maybe it takes too much voltage to saturate/switch it? I'm limiting myself to testing this TPU under 3V. Going beyond that tends to kill my LEDs. (I'm already short of it after burning sooo many.... >:()
Cheers, sanmankl
P.S. The iron wire is the same type that you get when you buy a breadboard except that it's in cut length. Hope this helps.
@ sanmanki
Yes, please post a picture of your iron wire. Thank you.
Cheers,
Bruce
Hello All,
My first experiment of the day. I wound my exact duplicate coil on my new ferrite. I wired it into parallel, next to the existing coil, still using the same circuit, double diode in parallel and double transistor in parallel. Run time was 20 minutes 28 seconds. No help there.
My next experiment will be two separate circuits, different batteries to kick start each, and feeding back into each other. I need some ideas where to tap into the two, and how to wire the two coils together. A quick drawing would be helpful. Thank you.
Cheers,
Bruce
Hi Bruce,
Here you go.
It's a high res photo. You can zoom in if you want. The lower wire is the "aluminium" type. The middle one, below the roll is the iron type.
Cheers, sanmankl
Quote from: sanmankl on November 22, 2007, 01:48:19 PM
Hi Bruce,
Here you go.
It's a high res photo. You can zoom in if you want. The lower wire is the "aluminium" type. The middle one, below the roll is the iron type.
Cheers, sanmankl
@sanmankl
Thank you for the picture. I sure would like to find some insulated iron wire as you have there. Should you or someone else come across where, please post the link for me.
@ All
I need some help please, trying to figure out how to tie the two identical circuits together. I hooked emitter from one circuit to the emitter to the other. It worked, but no addition of time. Any ideas at all, please let me know. Or draw me a little circuit. Thanks!
Cheers,
Bruce
EDIT: The picture below is for use in the AM Radio projects. Acts as a coil and an antenna. I have ordered some of these as well as a few other things, from the link below. I want to tie that antenna into the circuit and see what happens.
https://www.scitoyscatalog.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=SC&Category_Code=R
I have realized an experiment, but I have not had the good results of other experimenters and I don't understand where I have been wrong:
Transistor is: BC547C
Cond. are identical
Resistors are identica
Spool: 30 + 15
And try trigger loop with from 9 loop to 20 loop.
My LED operates only with the cathode inverted respect the scheme of EMDevice and this is rather strange.
After 3-4 minutes the LED switch-Off
have had the biggest problems in to start the apparatus:
I removed the LED to avoid that it was damaged (I have destroyed 3 of them...) I loaded the condenser with 10V I Inserted again ago the LED, and immediatly the LED start with a strong fast enad bright flash.
After the flsh it begins to pulse.
I have tried up to 12 LEDs in series, obviously the brightness reduced, but it didn't decrease the time of operation
The LED operates only with the cathode inverted respect the scheme of EM and this is rather strange.
I would be really happy if someone can give me some suggestions.
I also attach the images of the apparatus and the diagrams that show the descent of the tension to the heads of the condenser.
You will notice that in the diagrams the worse situation is when there is not the connected LED, when they connect him the everything it works, also increasing the LEDs keeps on working. Up to 6 LEDs with the same (apparent) bright intensity, after the brightness decreases.
I also have to notice that to around 2/3 of the discharge of the condenser, the blinking LED from 4 Hz passes to 2 Hz. The thing is strange I would want to know if someone has observed the same phenomenon.
Best regards
Adriano
Quote from: abassign on November 22, 2007, 05:38:38 PM
I have realized an experiment, but I have not had the good results of other experimenters and I don't understand where I have been wrong:
Transistor is: BC547C
Cond. are identical
Resistors are identica
Spool: 30 + 15
And try trigger loop with from 9 loop to 20 loop.
My LED operates only with the cathode inverted respect the scheme of EMDevice and this is rather strange.
After 3-4 minutes the LED switch-Off
have had the biggest problems in to start the apparatus:
I removed the LED to avoid that it was damaged (I have destroyed 3 of them...) I loaded the condenser with 10V I Inserted again ago the LED, and immediatly the LED start with a strong fast enad bright flash.
After the flsh it begins to pulse.
I have tried up to 12 LEDs in series, obviously the brightness reduced, but it didn't decrease the time of operation
The LED operates only with the cathode inverted respect the scheme of EM and this is rather strange.
I would be really happy if someone can give me some suggestions.
I also attach the images of the apparatus and the diagrams that show the descent of the tension to the heads of the condenser.
You will notice that in the diagrams the worse situation is when there is not the connected LED, when they connect him the everything it works, also increasing the LEDs keeps on working. Up to 6 LEDs with the same (apparent) bright intensity, after the brightness decreases.
I also have to notice that to around 2/3 of the discharge of the condenser, the blinking LED from 4 Hz passes to 2 Hz. The thing is strange I would want to know if someone has observed the same phenomenon.
Best regards
Adriano
@ Adriano
The first thing that I would change is your wire, to 20 gauge magnetic. My first attempt was with silver plated teflon coated, and it only runs a minute or two.
Cheers,
Bruce
@abassign
with a reversed LEDit should not work !
Then you have a discharge of the main cap via the LED-coil !
Try to avoid breaking your LEDs by putting a diac across the tansistor emitter to collector,
this will chop off all voltage bigger than about 30 Volts,
or you can use also a neon bulb, but then the voltage will go to
about 80 Volts at the spikebefore the neon bulb will chop it off..
Hello All,
Tonight I was able to increase my time by an additional 17%! Someone had suggested a small cap between the base and emitter of my transistors. It was several posts back, and thank you. I placed the small capacitor pictured below.
Final run time, with no battery and no power supply was 28 minutes and 4 seconds. Again, this was two LED's in parallel, blinking.
I have ordered my barium ferrite coil cores, two different types, as well as some germanium diodes. I am looking for iron insulated wire, and will also try nickel wire, and aluminum wire in the future.
I did experiment with two mirror circuits, but so far best time was just over 20 minutes.
I have just concluded an experiment with aluminum surrounding steel in the center of the ferrite coil, but no change in length of time running, whatsoever.
Cheers and good night,
Bruce
We have to find out, if this is just a storage circuit which
charge recycling and the stored energy in the cap is just used up,
or if the heat in the circuit and the light from the LED that is produced during the long run
is more energy than was hold in the capacitor at the start...
Maybe some of you can try to put the core near a running spinning disk with permanent magnets
on there, so that during the kickback pulse there will be an additional induction.
This way the voltage in the main cap should rise.
Would also be interesting to"link" 2 circuits magnetically by placing 2 toroids
ontop each other and letting them free run.
Maybe then each cap voltage will rise asboth circuits will also induce into
the other circuit.
Please try to see first, what will happen,
if you move a magnet fast near the ferrite core or
through the bore hole.
Will the main cap charge up then ?
Quote from: hartiberlin on November 23, 2007, 03:34:02 AM
We have to find out, if this is just a storage circuit which
charge recycling and the stored energy in the cap is just used up,
or if the heat in the circuit and the light from the LED that is produced during the long run
is more energy than was hold in the capacitor at the start...
Maybe some of you can try to put the core near a running spinning disk with permanent magnets
on there, so that during the kickback pulse there will be an additional induction.
This way the voltage in the main cap should rise.
Would also be interesting to"link" 2 circuits magnetically by placing 2 toroids
ontop each other and letting them free run.
Maybe then each cap voltage will rise asboth circuits will also induce into
the other circuit.
Please try to see first, what will happen,
if you move a magnet fast near the ferrite core or
through the bore hole.
Will the main cap charge up then ?
thats something I had on my mind too.. Whether it flashes longer or not, there are still plenty of effects people could observe that arn't included in the normal circuit. Possibly, a kick? Maybe it will help us realize just what kind of kick he was talking about... ???
One source of barium ferrite cores would be a speaker magnet.... which seem to have the same porportions as the twin exciters..mag amps ...whatever.... in the centre of the big coils.
One of the earlier experiments I did was to ring two windings on one of those speaker magnets with out of phase sound card out puts...about 11 khz was the sweet spot if i remember right....got some strange ringing ...I did not persue it at the time in light of other information coming to light.
@Harti
QuoteWould also be interesting to"link" 2 circuits magnetically by placing 2 toroids
ontop each other and letting them free run.
I think it's been done, here is a better way---http://rexresearch.com/mckie/mckie.htm
The question we should ask is why this simple circuit can drive an LED for hours from a small capacitor. My answer is that the collapsing magnetic field drives the load, unlike any conventional circuit. The collapsing field will raise its voltage to overcome any resistance, we see this when we try to disconnect from an inductance and get "sparks" across the wire amounting to thousands of volts. Think of it this way---we always encounter a voltage drop across our load because of resistance but what if the load always produces a voltage "rise", in this case we could produce what tesla called "undampened waves". As current travels though the circuit and the load its voltage is always "rising" overcoming all resistance which is exactly the opposite of what we have always done in all our circuits.
@btentzer
Thanks for your suggestions, but unfortunately I have not had any advantage, I must understand where I am being wrong.
Can you publish me your electric scheme, and as you connect the electronic components to the spools? You would do me a big favor and surely I could try to understand my error.
Also want do to you this asks:
In my tests for the first 300-400 seconds the LED pulse to 4 Hz, after (2/3 of the residual change of the condenser) the LED pulse to 2 Hz.
In your tests to which frequency it pulsates the LED?
Best regards
Adriano
Quote from: abassign on November 23, 2007, 02:08:48 PM
@btentzer
Thanks for your suggestions, but unfortunately I have not had any advantage, I must understand where I am being wrong.
Can you publish me your electric scheme, and as you connect the electronic components to the spools? You would do me a big favor and surely I could try to understand my error.
Also want do to you this asks:
In my tests for the first 300-400 seconds the LED pulse to 4 Hz, after (2/3 of the residual change of the condenser) the LED pulse to 2 Hz.
In your tests to which frequency it pulsates the LED?
Best regards
Adriano
@ Adriano
My borrowed scope from my brother in law is out of commission. I am saving to buy a nice scope like both GK and Jason O. are using. So I can not answer your frequency question, unfortunately.
As far as the proper schematic, let's start with EM's original diagram. Where EM has the bottom green wire hooked to his transistor, mine is hooked to the emitter of my transmitter. I use TWO transistors in parallel. Next, I have my bottom red wire, to the left of the bottom green wire, going to the anode side of the LED's.
My top green wire (See EM's diagram) goes to the cathode side of the LED's. My top red wire, just to the left of the top green wire, goes to the negative side of the 1000uf electrolytic capacitor.
The collector of the transistor, goes to the negative between the two electrolytic capacitors.
The top wire of the trigger, goes to the positive side of the 1.5uf electrolytic, this is also the bottom of the 1 mega ohm resistor.
The bottom wire of the trigger goes to the base of the two parallel transistors.
I also have the 221 ceramic capacitor hooked to the base and emitter of the transistor.
My coil is neatly wound, using 20 gauge magnet wire. I am convinced that another type of wire will double my time. Call it a hunch. I am also convinced that once I receive in my barium ferrite coil core and the other items I have ordered, I should see substantial time increase.
@ALL
I went to Radio Shack for more of the identical 1.7 volt 20 ma LED's. Because my run times have gotten so long, ;D I wanted to shorten the time to conclude each test, from its present 28 minutes. So I purchased four more LED's, came back and hooked them as following: 3 rows in series of two diodes in parallel.
- -
+ - + -
+ - + -
+ +
Well, I expected to cut my time, I figured to about 9.5 minutes.
ACTUAL RUN TIME ALL 6 LED's:
23 minutes 51 seconds.Pictures to follow in just a few minutes.
EDIT: My positive lead to jump start the circuit is from the positive side of the 1000uf electrolytic capacitor. The ground lead to jump start the circuit is from the negative side of the 1.5uf electrolytic capacitor. I use a 9volt battery to "kick" start the circuit.
Cheers,
Bruce
@btentzer
Thanks for your clear description. I am having the same problems as Adriano and here is a picture to show the coil types I have been using and all have been not that great. Besides the fun of blowing leds, added to the learning experience, it seems I cannot get past the low results, but with your description, this may be more attainable.
The fat coil in the center background is the one I took from a torroid transformer. The back left and right ones are using the ferrites taken from hipotted coils.
(Revised Build Spec)
The coil on the board is one I just made using a 12" length on 1/4" polyethylene tubing. I cut four 11.5" lengths of bailing wire and pushed them into the tube all at once so the wire is 1/4" inside each end of the polytube . While still straight, I wound 1/3 of the length from center 2" each way the two coils using two identical as bifilar from left 0" to right 4" but stopped in the center to put a center tap (now curled) for future use. The poly tube with bailing wire was rounded and a 1/2" plastic shim was used to connect both tube ends. The trigger was wound 1" long 1/2" L and R from the newly connected ends.
I am thinking that since the ring is not closed, having a 1/2" gap, when the trigger pulses this will reach the opposite point (ring center) and come back backwards, since the whole current can no longer travel in a loop.
I will try your configuration tonight and see how it goes.
My question is about when you say the leds are "blinking". Are they really turning on and off? Please describe what you mean.
Quote from: wattsup on November 23, 2007, 06:22:22 PM
I will try your configuration tonight and see how it goes.
My question is about when you say the leds are "blinking". Are they really turning on and off? Please describe what you mean.
Hi Wattsup,
I think the key is making sure you wind the toroid as I have. I know this works with 20 gauge magnet wire. Wind it counter clockwise and each end should be EXACTLY as EM has pictured in his original circuit. In other words make sure you start your winding properly. I wound other style windings, and they did not work at all, at least on my style ferrite toroid.
And to answer your question, the LED's are pulsing, completely off, completely on, at about 2 or 3 Hz, just guessing. Also, when I first started with this circuit, the LED would not light while the battery was kick starting it. It took a few seconds to oscillate. But not anymore, since I have added my changes.
I am experimenting with a couple of other ideas at the moment. I will let everyone know if any work! LOL
Happy experimenting, ;)
Bruce
EDIT 1:I have added two more LED's to reduce my time. It is still 23 minutes, 30 seconds. So I will have to live with that length of time as my base time for my experiments.
I have purchased several different type of transistors to try. The transistor makes a HUGE difference in run time. I remember SM talking about transistors being slow as molasses compared to tubes. Perhaps SM used tubes in the beginning AS his transistor in the start of his discovery.
EDIT 2:Well, I swapped my two transistors in parallel for a single 2N4401 transistor. Only one was needed, and it
INCREASED my time with 8 LED's by 12% to just over 26 minutes. I am testing others as I type.
EDIT 3:Video of the working unit, shot tonight, in the back yard. First video, so forgive the relative shooting it! ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiIkeFXqRos
<removed>
@ All
Well, I tried out all of the transistors in my little arsenal. I found MPS3904 (Just one needed) NPN Silicon produced the best results thus far, with another 12% time increase, now to 29 minutes 30 seconds. This is with 8 LED's. I had done 28 minutes before, but that had been with only two LED's. So, progress, progress! ;D
I only have a couple of more things that I can try until my parts arrive next week. Then I will be back at it. If any of you have any ideas, please let me know. I would like to try increasing the voltage at some point in the circuit. If someone has a very easy way for me to do this, to try in the loop, that would be great.
Check out the video, made earlier, with six LED's! Forgive the blank blue screen for the first 6 seconds! LOL Amatures!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiIkeFXqRos
Wonder if setting up two transistors in a darlington arrangement for this circuit would be of any advantage?
@ Liberty
I Googled it and found the circuit. Wired it in. It is working and I am timing it. Will post the results. Thanks for the idea!
Now if you can tell me how to further amplify the signal, that is what I would like to try.
Cheers,
Bruce
@Btentzer,
Your welcome. I don't know if it will help, but it gives the pair of transistors higher gain while acting as one transistor. The base circuit can be switched on with less current and the output circuit likes a low impedance load. Here is a diagram of a couple of NPN transistors connected as a darlington pair. PNP can also be hooked up the same way.
@ Liberty
Thank you for the drawing. My last test, I had it wired wrong. I connected according to your drawing, but left the collector off of the lead transistor. The circuit would not work with it in. Please don't ask why! LOL
The LED's blinked, very brightly for 2 minutes and three seconds and then went dark. Good try, keep thinking!
Cheers,
Bruce
I have now tried this also,
but just with 3 litz coils on my ferrite rod.
I can get a steady oscillation going for over 3 Minutes and
then the 1 blue LED I am using still
shines about 2 minutes more...
But I have to compare it with a to 12 Volts charged 2000 uF
capacitor hooked up via a 4.7 KOhm resistor to the same
blue LED. This DC discharge will light the LED also about 3 minutes...
and this is then only the cap and the resistor and LED...
so as these LEDs are pretty efficient, wehave to find out,
if the MicroTPU circuit is really giving us more energy
or if only the energy of the cap is used up in
a much longer time...
So as I am very tired, I am going to sleep now and continue
later... It seems , my circuit can go with a bit tweaking still
a bit longer, maybe 10 minutes...
Have to check it out...
At least it will work also with litz coils
oscillating in the 1Mhz range.
Oscillation looks quite like a sine wave.
I am using a BC 555 C transistor and about 2050 uF
as the buffer caps.
Regards, Stefan.
@all
How about tuning the RC circuit to 7.5hz... does that increase run time?
Edit: I used a RC filter calculator and I think that you can tune this frequency with a .33uf capacitor and a 100K pot
@btentzer
Edit#2: I thought the 3904 would be a good transistor. :)
4Tesla
The circut is a duel feed bak royford .. the coil as a duel repleniching diminching looop. you got a foching loop .... wil publish more later ... this is getting eal hard maybe i won't publish after i read stefans remarks on the th ... mayby we should not have this tecknowlegy
Getting in here a bit late, But I am a bit curious if most are running at 7 Hz or if that changes depending on the toroid size.
I will wrap up a few cores later today and see what I can come up with.
@hakware
Hi hakware,
Welcome... I'm a newbie too. I think most are running at 2hz, but I hope someone will try 7.5hz to see what happens. I believe the frequency depends on the RC circuit. I don't have a ferrite core, but plan on getting one soon.
@all
Anyone recommend an online site for getting cores?
I recommend using one transistor and one LED to keep the circuit simple and reducing the size of the supply capacitor to reduce run times. I think we should focus on the frequency, coils, and cores. Speaking of coils, can someone explain to me what the "trigger" coil does? It seems that the transistor is the trigger. Has anyone tried the circuit without the "trigger" coil to see if it is doing anything?
Thanks,
4Tesla
Edit: accidentally posted same post twice.
Quote from: btentzer on November 24, 2007, 01:03:56 AM
Now if you can tell me how to further amplify the signal, that is what I would like to try.
Cheers,
Bruce
burce did you try a magnet to amp the effect? put a magnet on the feroitte then smak it at the right speed
i still dont think much of this is needed in a tpu maybe in a steven mark tpu ;)
ist
Quote from: 4Tesla on November 24, 2007, 05:52:53 AM
@hakware
Hi hakware,
Welcome... I'm a newbie too. I think most are running at 2hz, but I hope someone will try 7.5hz to see what happens. I believe the frequency depends on the RC circuit. I don't have a ferrite core, but plan on getting one soon.
@all
Anyone recommend an online site for getting cores?
I recommend using one transistor and one LED to keep the circuit simple and reducing the size of the supply capacitor to reduce run times. I think we should focus on the frequency, coils, and cores. Speaking of coils, can someone explain to me what the "trigger" coil does? It seems that the transistor is the trigger. Has anyone tried the circuit without the "trigger" coil to see if it is doing anything?
Thanks,
4Tesla
@4Tesla
I could not agree with your statement that I bold faced, more! ;)
I will gladly try your tuning to 7.5 Hz. Please draw me a diagram and
placement idea.
Need values on Pot (saw, 100K) and
type of cap. (ceramic I suppose?) Thanks!
@IS
Thus far a magnet(s) have no effect whatsoever.
@ALL
Reminder, I am using only a 1000uf cap, and a
nine volt battery. I have
8 LED's that self run for nearly 30 minutes.
Cheers,
Bruce
EDIT:@4Tesla
I have tried no trigger, and it will not work. Also, I have my Transistor complete opposite from EM's original drawing! Everyone says it should not work, but that is the ONLY way it works in my setup. You can read the description I wrote to Wattsup as to where everything is hooked up. My emitter is where my collector should be and the collector where the emitter should be.
@ bruce lol
do you know why??
it has no effect ?? the magnet ??
lol
ist
@btentzer
Tried your set-up but with my present 2N2222 transistor and still no go. I am going to get a few other transistors.
It has to be my coils so I will make some others this weekend. I think my trigger coils are too big or long and are hoggy up all the juice.
I tried spiking with 9 volts but just keep blowing leds. If I only use one led, should I still spike with 9 volts or must I use like 3 volts instead?
Do you have a part number for your ferrite?
In the tests that I have actually done to I have noticed, that the device doesn't probably produce any OU, in how much the LED pulsates with brief flash that a few milliseconds duration.
For example, with 1000uf electrolytic capacitor, if the LED pulse 4 times at the second (4Hz), if the duration of flash is 2 mSec (The pulse time I have been able to measure through an oscilloscope), we have 8 m/sec * sec of working time. After 4 minutes with 240 Sec the total time in which the LED has been turned on is 0.08 * 240 = 1.92 Sec.
For example i simulate the circuit:
a generator of impulses with a basic frequency of 4 Hz and once of impulse of 2 mSecs, This means that the LED stays turned on for 2 mSecs every 0,25 Sec. With a button I have simulated the loading of the 1000uf electrolytic capacitor.
I start the simulatro circuit, loading the capacitor by pressing the button and I verify with what speed goes down the voltage to the heads of the capacitor.
In my simple experiment the voltage of the condenser reduces him of around 1/10 V every 15 seconds, Therefore later around 800 seconds (12 minutes) the led is not more visible. If the frequency of pulsation of the LED is smaller, for instance 2 Hz, the time doubles (24 minutes), if 1 Hz, 48 Minutes.
This simple experiment brings to the following considerations:
1. When you verify the time of operation of the LED, it is fundamental to verify the frequency of pulsation.
2. Is opportune to verify, with an oscilloscopio, the real time when the LED is on that to make best verifications.
3. During my experiments I have built only a nice pulsating LED, whose energy is only due to the energy of the condenser.
4. I would not want that who declares an increase of the time of operation, in reality, you is reducing only the frequency of pulsation or the time when the LED turned on.
5. For times of operation under 30-60 minutes is extremely unlikely to have produced some energy from the device!
@EMDevices
I would like to know from @EMDevice if the frequency of pulsation were always the same one and if he has measured the current absorbed by the LED during the cycle.
You have succeeded in repeating the experiment other times with superior times to 2 hours (7200 sec...) ?
Has calculated the real energy absorbed by the LED ?
Best regards
Adriano
You excuse a small note:
If they are inserted more LEDs it doesn't change a lot. The circuit of EMDevice is regulated in automatic way with the current. Simply the LEDs will be less bright. And as verified in my experiment with 12 LEDs, the time of operation is identical, only that the LEDs are less bright.
@ Bruce and Manix and Stephen - I have been observing this thread If possable change the Barium ferrite rod to Barium titanate , these have special properties in the Electrict feild. this coil may inhance the output if the coils due to the natural power of this matreial. Acctualy you can add a charge to the rod or ring and let set over a piord of a week or two to stablize. ounce you do this the rod or ring will nevr lose the charge. I have been studying the Swiss machine with much enthuseasium and this looks promiceing too. good luck and have fun- oh by the way i use a small bycycle LED safty flasher to drive my coil and the best part it has 5 settings on a premade board I bought from Wallmart 9.95.
@btentzer
Thanks for verifying the trigger coil. I still don't understand how it works though. I have attached the modified schematic. I'm not sure what type of capacitor would work best. Are you using iron wire for the coils?
@wattsup
Try putting a current limiting resistor in series with your LED and see if that keeps it from blowing up (470 ohms). Are you pulling the capacitor out of the circuit to charge? If not, that may be the problem.
@all
Edit: Is the trigger coil recharging the capacitor in the RC circuit?
Thanks,
4Tesla
<removed>
@4Tesla
Thank you very much for posting your schematic. I have been traveling all day, and I am very tired. Tomorrow, I will try to hunt down all of what is needed to try it. Also, please calculate what is needed to bring it down a touch further, to 7.23 Hz and/or 7.3 Hz, and I will get what I need to try that also. This is very important to me to try your 7.5 and my 7.23 or 7.3 if we have to round it up.
Also, I am using 20 gauge, copper magnet wire on my coils. I am buying some iron wire, insulated next week and also some nickel wire insulated to wind cores. Also my other parts arrive next week, and I can't wait!
@ Wattsup
The phone number to E.P.O in Houston, Texas, where I found the ferrite for $1.99 each is 1-281-286-5510.
It took me several times, winding different ways, at first, before it worked. Further proof for me that the coil has interaction in the circuit.
I have just kicked mine off, at first with 5 volts off the board and later a 9 volt battery, because I wanted to be portable. I have not smoked any LED's. Pay special attention to which wire I said goes where to the transistor.
@ All
A reminder that no one here claims that this is OU. The goal is to learn, experiment, have fun, and see if it can be pushed that way, and then scaled up. I am sorry I do not have a working scope at this time. It is frustrating for me as well. But, having started our at 4 minutes run time, with no battery or power hookup, and then making several changes and tunings and increasing the load and now having a run time of 29 minutes, 30 seconds, I do see a little progress. Looking at the LED's, they seem to be the same brightness with two, as with 6, as with 8. The pulse starts to slow down during about the last 3 to 4 minutes. And believe me when I say I have watched enough blinking LED's to last a life time. SM said to study toroids and learn their strange principles. I am learning a lot. Especially how important a fast transistor is and what a HUGE difference it makes on this type of circuit. I now think that is why he wanted us to start with tubes. I think tubes as transistors is now what he might have meant. I would like to test a "super fast" transistor. I would bet money if would give more 'on' time.
@ Liberty
I am going to retry the Darrington. I will hook it in reverse, like my transistors are reversed from the original circuit. Talk about strange. That is why I think it did not work last night.
Holiday Cheers to All,
Bruce
@btentzer
Since the circuit uses a pot, you should be able to get a good range in frequency.. including 7.23 and 7.3hz. The calculations are based on a conventional RC filter circuit.. I don't know if the trigger coil has an effect on the frequency or not.
Good Luck.. I can't wait to get the cores so I can join in on the fun! :)
Edit.. I was thinking maybe the direction the coil is wound effects witch way the transistor goes in the circuit. Also you will need to measure the frequency somehow to adjust the pot to the right frequency.. does your DMM measure frequency?
Edit2.. I calculated the range for 100k pot in series with 1k res.. 101k - 4.8hz and 1k - 482.5hz
Edit3.. If you can't measure the frequency, I calculated the values needed.. you can use your meter to measure the resistance of the pot.. 64k - 7.5hz, 66k - 7.3hz, and 67k - 7.2hz... Also you can replace the 1k res with a 62k res and the 100k pot with a 10k pot for finner tuning.
Edit4.. I almost forgot, you need to subtract 1k because of the 1k resistor.. so for 7.5hz the pot resistance would need to be 63k and not 64k.
Edit5.. RC parts list:
Potentiometers - 10K, and 100K
Resistors - 1K, and 62K
Capacitor - .33uF
Edit6.. What is the diameter of your toroid?
Thanks,
4Tesla
There is no way to have OU with this circuit without applying an outside input, which is why I mentioned it a couple pages back that a pulser motor was needed to maintain both charging and recycling charge. I'm almost done both the pulser/flywheel and the circuit. should be interesting. This circuit is unique in that it uses least amount of parts to get the job done (efficiency) and configurable. The pulser/flywheel should produce that extra time increase by maintaining the charge duration in any case.
P.S. does anyone know of an electronic circuit equivalent of a mechanical flywheel? is there even one? I was thinking of capacitor/coil combinations, but it does not exactly show both mass, centrifugal force and angular momentum ? or do I have the wrong idea here?
@quantum1024
I like your avatar!! :)
4Tesla
A quick way to see if its getting excess power is to calculate how much power the led is using. is that not the load?
it seems that a 22uf capacitor should not blink an led for that long under any circumstance. The problem is that every led is different and not a precision device as far as current drain forward voltage drop etc. That could be reasoning that were seeing such wild and varying run times.
anyone have a current probe on their scope to figure out what the power factor on this is?
Yep, the LED is the load. You can hook your meter in series to get the current.
4Tesla
Quote from: quantum1024 on November 25, 2007, 01:36:13 AM
There is no way to have OU with this circuit without applying an outside input, which is why I mentioned it a couple pages back that a pulser motor was needed to maintain both charging and recycling charge. I'm almost done both the pulser/flywheel and the circuit. should be interesting. This circuit is unique in that it uses least amount of parts to get the job done (efficiency) and configurable. The pulser/flywheel should produce that extra time increase by maintaining the charge duration in any case.
P.S. does anyone know of an electronic circuit equivalent of a mechanical flywheel? is there even one? I was thinking of capacitor/coil combinations, but it does not exactly show both mass, centrifugal force and angular momentum ? or do I have the wrong idea here?
I believe the idea of the TPU is to use the Earth's magnetic field as the outside input.
@All,
After playing around with multiple coil configurations (torroid size, wire size, wire type, no. of turns) my best resulst is about 28m 52s with 2 x 5mm white and 3 x 3mm Blue LEDs hooked up in parallel. Single 3mm Blue LED gives me approx 28 minutes as well.
I won't bore all with the details for what I really want to put it to all is
"EMDevices has his circuit going to 2+ hours with only single blue 3mm LED"
and none of us (or that I know of) has match his performance. I want to replicate his setup as close as possible, get to as close the run time as possible (maybe 80% of his run time? 1.5 hours?). EM run time and circuit is my base line for now.
I see a lot of discussions going about improving circuits to get better times, etc but to me, I would not want to do that simply because I have not achieved what EM got for his. So, I'm sticking to the original circuit/plan.
Questions for EM are
1. What wire is he using?
From I can see from his picture, it's an insulated one. Is it multi-stand or single core? Copper, alloy?
2. What about the torroid core?
EM says that he got his from a recycle shop and it's about 1.5" diameter.
But based on his photo and I measured 11 plugpoints on his board, it's more like .75"?
From what I can see, it's black? Maybe it's not a pure ferrite core? His coils of 30 turns/15 turns/7 turns do not wound all the way round the core.
Does this matter? Also, the 15 turns x 2 for collector wire in series. Again, would this matter?
3. NPN transistor.
I have tried, 2N2222A, 2N3904, BC237, BC548, BC337. All similar results. I have even tried FET 2N7000 with even poorer result than the NPNs.
4. Cap.
1000uF (normal? low impedence?)
5. EM says he charge his capacitor up with 5V.
Did he get better run times with 9V, 12V?
Given the hugh quality variance with electronics components, I would be happy if I can get past the magical 1 hour run time. Once I have that, I'll move on to incorporate some of the ideas posted here. To me, EM has proven that his circuit is sound to go 2+ hours. That is my replication goal. After all, the term replication means "to duplicate", right?
Cheers, sanmankl (cp)
Quote from: btentzer on November 24, 2007, 08:02:52 PM
@ All
A reminder that no one here claims that this is OU. The goal is to learn, experiment, have fun, and see if it can be pushed that way, and then scaled up. I am sorry I do not have a working scope at this time. It is frustrating for me as well.
Hi Bruce,
If you replace the condenser in a cheap audio microphone with a CdS cell, set it in proximity to the LEDs and record it in Audacity or some other audio recording software, you'll get a slightly more objective measurement of light output, rate, etc. Shouldn't cost much more than $2. If you have an old mouse around, you can rip the phototransistor out of the internals to get a similar effect.
(Of course the other option would be to wire the output directly to the microphone input, with something to regulate the voltage if it's going to exceed 5vdc by too large a margin)
@samnakl
Please remember that EM stated that his LED was some super efficient hybrid type, and that is why it ran so long. He used a regular LED and he said it ran for "a little bit" but never gave a time.
I want to stay away from increasing the efficiency of the LED or increasing the Main 1000 uf cap size and learn how to make this thing rock using "other" methods, such as coils, types of wire, frequency close to shumann's, etc. This is the base line I have set for my self. Just blinking an LED for a length of time does me no good, unless the coil is directly involved.
Your test with the iron wire core was "inspiring". can you also test 4Tesla's circuit, to bring the circuit down to around 7.3 Hz if you have a scope. Also a current reading would be awesome. Thanks!
@ Mr. Ramos
A quote from Scorpio about his super cap. "Yes, is it really 0.22 Farad! = 220000uF/5.5V."
It ran so long because it was 220,000uf. With my configuration I could get about 110 hours run time with that. ;), with 8 LED's.
@ 4Tesla
The diameter of my toroid is 2". Also, please post a revised schematic, since you have added more resistors and a second pot. Thank you!
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
I understand that the original TPU was to use the earths magnetic field as an outside power source, which is what got my attention, however it's simple enough to check and see if it is an influencing factor, shield the toroid in a small metal can and check the run time.
Duty cycle (on/off periods of load and circuit-frequency) plays a large role in the efficiency of the circuit. The trade off is less light to more light.
You could also use Litz wire which will increase your run times/efficiency. Super caps are an excellent way to optimize as well.
Increasing the voltages would increase the efficiency and decrease losses, the trade-off is down conversion.
I have seen leaky capacitors have electrolytic reactions (acts like a battery due to chemical reactions, crystal formations between plates), just take an electrolytic cap and short it, then wait a minute and look at the voltage, this i would say is a large contributing factor in the different results.
# 4telsa - current check with meter will be out to lunch in ac circuit. must be dc to do a proper check. in this circuit you are dealing with oscillations, hence ac. no use. I high five your paw and raise you a paw.
I agree that that circuit should be kept holy electronic if possible, I'm just looking at all options and keeping an open mind. ::)
LITZ Wire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litz_wire
Capacitors
http://www.ami.ac.uk/courses/topics/0136_ec/index.html
@ quantum1024
As of now, this is nothing more than probably just an efficient circuit, so there is no involvement of the earth's magnetic field. But that is why we want to change the frequency to 7.3 or 7.5 Hz. Please refer to Marco's dancing magnets to see the wave that can be tapped there.
@All
I believe three things are needed here, to even approach using the standing wave.
1. The right frequency
2. Higher voltage (equals speed)
3. Counter Clockwise windings.
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
Do you have a link for this..... Marco's dancing magnets
Quote from: btentzer on November 25, 2007, 10:38:30 AM
@samnakl
Please remember that EM stated that his LED was some super efficient hybrid type, and that is why it ran so long.Ã, He used a regular LED and he said it ran for "a little bit" but never gave a time.
I want to stay away from increasing the efficiency of the LED or increasing the Main 1000 uf cap size and learn how to make this thing rock using "other" methods, such as coils, types of wire, frequency close to shumann's, etc.Ã, This is the base line I have set for my self.Ã, Just blinking an LED for a length of time does me no good, unless the coil is directly involved.
Your test with the iron wire core was "inspiring".Ã, can you also test 4Tesla's circuit, to bring the circuit down to around 7.3 Hz if you have a scope.Ã, Also a current reading would be awesome.Ã, Thanks!
Hi Bruce,
Yes, I do understand that EM is using super-efficient LEDs (so am I, bloody expensive too.)Ã,Â
So far, I've "revert" to my copper-only coil (I have recoiled the iron coil since) and the run time I got tonight was kinda strange.
Based on 4Tesla's circuit, I have "tuned" the freq to 7.5Hz by adding a 2M2 pot. and below are the test results. I ran the each tests twice to verify result.
Configuration
- Torroid core .75" Ferrite (dark grey)
- AWG 23, 30T, 15T and 7T (as spec'ed by EM)
- 220nF cap, 2M2 pot tuned to 7.5Hz (drift + - 05Hz). Measured with DVM across the LEDs. Main cap charged to 9.17V with 9V batt.
- 3mm Blue LED, super-efficient (over here, they called it super-bright). I don't know if it's a "hybrid" thing or not?
-Ã, 1 LED, 29m30s
-Ã, 3 LEDs, 31m10s
-Ã, 5 LEDs, 31m
So, I guessed that the run time is better with a "load"? I'm still trying to figure this out.
Next, I'll measure the current consumed by the single LED and also use my "iron-wire" coil (wound onto a 1" torroid) and post the results.
Cheers, cp
EDIT: I'd got a business trip to make next week so I can only do all these testings when I get back.
Maybe EMdevices circuit was running so long, as he used a trifilar coil and as he had 2 windings of it in series, he is also using the Tesla flat coil effect to enhance the capacity of the coil.
If capacity rich coils are switched they might generate more BackEMF power and thus recharge the main cap much stronger....
So it is wise to use this trifilar coil setup...
Maybe even multifilar and putting all windings in series...
@ Samankl
A very interesting post. If you can tweak your frequency up to about 7.8 Hz for me and try that, also 7.3, with the same set up and see if the times are the same. It does indeed like a load. Are your LED's in series, parallel or both?
Also, looking at EM's original circuit, the bottom green wire going to the transistor. Do you have that going to your collector or emitter? Mine goes to my emitter. It is the only way it will work for my circuit.
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
Quote from: btentzer on November 25, 2007, 12:15:36 PM
@ Samankl
A very interesting post. If you can tweak your frequency up to about 7.8 Hz for me and try that, also 7.3, with the same set up and see if the times are the same. It does indeed like a load. Are your LED's in series, parallel or both?
Also, looking at EM's original circuit, the bottom green wire going to the transistor. Do you have that going to your collector or emitter? Mine goes to my emitter. It is the only way it will work for my circuit.
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
@Bruce,
I have tweaked my frequency to 7.8 and then to 7.5 with my copper wire coil. 7.5 seemed to work better. Difference of about 3 minutes. LEDs are in parallel.
My LED positive goes to the 15T wire and the other end goes to gnd. The bottom green wire that goes to my Transistor collector. If yours goes to the emitter, then what have you hook up to your collector?
What transistor are you using? I'm using BC548 and the pin-outs are CBE (looking at the transistor, pin pointing downwards with the marking facing you). The 2N3904 are EBC (same orientation).
Funny thing is I 'can't' tune my iron wire coil to the frequency. Tried just now. With even a 4M7 pot (set to the highest), I'm reading 27Hz with my DVM...... I don't know why. The LED look's to be blinking even slower than I have it with my copper wire coil. Strange.
sanmankl
@sanmankl
To answer a couple of your questions. I am now using NPN Silicon MPS3904 transistor, after having tried out about 6 different ones. It gives me 29 minutes, 30 seconds, with eight LED's.
The bottom green wire of EM's circuit goes to my emitter. My collector goes to the negative side of 1000 uf cap. It only works this way on my circuit.
/ | Emitter 1
| | Base 2
\ | Collector 3
Right now I am running several experiments with a second coil in series. I will let you know if anything interesting happens. I also want to try ALL of my LED's in parallel.
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
EDIT:
An interesting side note, is that if I touch ground of my kick start to the positive of the battery and the positive of my kick start to the ground, the LED's light up so bright as to hurt my eyes. But then releasing the wires from the battery, they will not blink.
Also, on my board, hooking them up, ground to the ground and positive to the negative 12volt 100ma supply it will also light very brightly and then when the wires are removed, it will not blink.
Any ideas why from you more experienced electronic guys?
<removed>
@btentzer
It is the same circuit.. just using different values. replace the 1k resistor with a 62k resistor and replace the 100k pot with a 10k pot. This is just an idea to be able to have more control over the frequency. The original circuit that I posted should work fine. Also as you can see by what sanmankl used, you can use a different RC values.
@sanmankl
Cool! Glad you're trying the circuit in the 7hz range. Did the circuit run longer than when running at 2hz? Have you tried other frequencies?.. what happens at 20hz?
@acerzw
The cap in the coil sounds like something worth trying!
4Tesla
I had a bunch of cores laying around, I thought maybe I should check them sorta magnetically, so I played with about 15 cores and stuck a neodymium magnet on them, interestingly they where all different strengths, when I tried to remove the magnet from the cores. There where stronger and weaker cores. Try this test yourselves.
I got a transistor that is equivalent to the MPS3904 which is a MPS6514 and the LED is now BLINKING. (Applause accepted). I can see on my scope that there are large spikes but taking a picture of it will be difficult on my old Hitachi V-650F cause the spikes are moving really quick.
1) Can any of the EEers here explain to me why this circuit is blinking the LED. Does this not mean that the base is getting zero voltage - then voltage - then zero voltage. But how is that possible?
2) My large cap is a 1000uF 25V. Does this mean that if I only charge the circuit with let's say 3 volts, I won't have 1000uF, or do I have to charge it for a longer time for it to reach 1000uF.
Quote from: wattsup on November 25, 2007, 06:36:06 PM
I got a transistor that is equivalent to the MPS3904 which is a MPS6514 and the LED is now BLINKING. (Applause accepted). I can see on my scope that there are large spikes but taking a picture of it will be difficult on my old Hitachi V-650F cause the spikes are moving really quick.
1) Can any of the EEers here explain to me why this circuit is blinking the LED. Does this not mean that the base is getting zero voltage - then voltage - then zero voltage. But how is that possible?
2) My large cap is a 1000uF 25V. Does this mean that if I only charge the circuit with let's say 3 volts, I won't have 1000uF, or do I have to charge it for a longer time for it to reach 1000uF.
Great job, Wattsup! (Applause!) It seems to run longer with a larger load of LED's, so you may want to start with at least two in parallel.
Is your transistor hooked in reverse as mine is?
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
In regards to 7.5Hz resonance, an LC circuit to resonate at that frequency with a toroid core of the sizes were using
would be around 200 winds of wire and about a .4F capacitor. So there must be some other mechanism at work here.
we don't have near enough wire or cap size for it to have the resonant frequencies that it appears to be exhibiting here.
just my .02
@EMdevices
Do you have a part number on that core your using? numbers printed on the outside circumference?
Here is a site that sells both ferrite and iron toroid cores.
http://www.oselectronics.com/ose_p88.htm
I would like to buy 2 of each kind. What size do you think works best?
There are 4 different mixes - 43, 61, 75, and 77.. Which do you think is best?
Thanks,
4Tesla
My Guess would be an FT140 or an FT240.. in a mix 77 it has the highest permiability. It would be nice to try some at each end of the scale
low and high permiability like a mix 61.
.
@4Tesla
Thanks for the link.
I think @hakware is right about the Mix 77 since is has the lowest MHz rating, although it is probably higher then we are going, it is the closest.
If you look at my photo of my multiple coils, located here;
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3599.msg60877.html#msg60877
the FT240 would be like the back center coil although mine is slightly fatter, and the FT140 would be close to the back left and right coils. I don't think the FT 240 will be good for this circuit but it may be good for the same circuit working at higher voltages, simply because the saturation current required would be greater. I would say the best choice is the FT 140 77. But I will get a few of both also (just in case).
@ hakware and wattsup
Thank you!
@all
What do you think of the iron toroid cores? Should I buy some?
Thanks,
4Tesla
cap in coil:
1500uF 16v inside 30/15/7 x 0.6mm insulated tinned copper on unknown core (from pc psu similar to the original em devices model); RC: 1M & 1uF Tantalum, Switching: 2 x BC337 (safety in numbers); LED: blue unknown spec
6v: 5.49min, frequency steady (unknown), more rapid toward the end
9.6v: 7.47min, 0-2 mins slightly faster and dim, 2-7.3mins steady, brighter; last 10secs, brightest and slower.
its like it kinda tunes in as it goes, dont know if this is cause cap is in core, or just the voltage.
components are ripped from old pc for the moment, and i will make two duplicate halves when i have ordered better components. interested (as others) in different frequencies (not just schumann, but higher?), but also fast switching, bemf and two capacitors...
@Tesla
I am not sure how the Iron cores are going to work out. they design the ferrite mixes to have the lowest eddy current losses possible. Iron, as I have read would display higher core losses.
Most ferrite cores are an iron, molybdenum nickel mix.
It is up to you. and it sure is worth a try on one. dont leave anything to chance I say.
@eon
The aluminum can/core in the capacitor is changing the resonance of the circuit as the field flux changes in strength.
im down to my last bc337 and i blew up my large blue led. anyway ive now got to grips with swapping things in and out without damaging them. as you can see, ive got no breadboard (yet), so its all a bit of a fiddly solder job. im an electrical fitter or electro-mechanical engineer so electronics is not my forte.
im not going for length of operation until i have a greater range of components, but more to establish a model and vary it.
im happy to report that
identical cap outside the core at 9.6v gave run of 7.06, 7.08, 7.07 mins
identical cap (minus wrapper) inside core, gives 7.47, 7.43, 7.47mins
Interesting! So having the cap inside the core adds about 40 seconds!
One thing I would like to know is run times at 2hz, 4hz, 7hz, 14hz, and 30hz. If the runtime shortens by about half each time upped then we can conclude that the frequency doesn't effect the efficiency of the coil.
Edit: or 2hz, 4hz, 8hz, 16hz, and 32hz
4Tesla
I went shopping! :)
I bought 2 of the FT114-77 1.14" ferrite toroids, 1 of the FT140-77 1.4" ferrite toroids, and 1 of the T106-26 1.06" iron toroids.
Site: http://www.oselectronics.com/ose_p88.htm
I also bought some red and green 20 gauge colored magnet wire (copper).
Site: http://www.bulkwire.com/colored_magnet_wire.asp
I'm going to buy some 20 gauge iron wire from my local Grainger store.. Grainger Item # 6A852
Site: http://www.grainger.com
4Tesla
@ 4Tesla
I think you should try the iron core. I have it on good authority, that good things can come from iron cores, but not sure if so with this set up. ;)
@ All
Hey guys,
I have been working feverishly to increase my time past 30 minutes and to no avail. I have burned out all but three LED's and my best transistor. I replaced the transistor tonight, and saw that my barium ferrite am radio antenna core coils have arrived! ;D Now this will be fun! And we need to boost the voltage, but not the total wattage. High voltage equals speed, and we need speed. So any ideas to easily bump the voltage, would be helpful. I am thinking of adding some part of the cold electricity circuit to this circuit. That is my plan.
I will let you know when something good comes, and I hope that it will!
Happy experimenting and happy holidays,
Bruce
EDIT:
@ 4Tesla
Please post the link to the iron wire, I could not find it on the grainger site. Thanks!
@btentzer
WW Grainger #6A852 is 'J' type thermocouple extension wire. It is composed of a positive leg of iron and a negative leg which is 45% nickel and 55% copper.
Select 'Grainger item number where 'keyword' is shown and put the 6a852 under that and click 'go'.
Interesting use of T-couple wire. Never thought of that! Might be interesting. Other types may be more interesting :)
Quote from: BEP on November 26, 2007, 09:13:40 PM
@btentzer
WW Grainger #6A852 is 'J' type thermocouple extension wire. It is composed of a positive leg of iron and a negative leg which is 45% nickel and 55% copper.
Select 'Grainger item number where 'keyword' is shown and put the 6a852 under that and click 'go'.
Interesting use of T-couple wire. Never thought of that! Might be interesting. Other types may be more interesting :)
Thanks as always BEP! ;)
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
Hi Hakware:
You have based your calculation on LC and you have to add the R. I think if you use a calulator and run your values for all three, you will see a difference.
thaelin
Quote from: hakware on November 25, 2007, 10:50:07 PM
In regards to 7.5Hz resonance, an LC circuit to resonate at that frequency with a toroid core of the sizes were using
would be around 200 winds of wire and about a .4F capacitor. So there must be some other mechanism at work here.
we don't have near enough wire or cap size for it to have the resonant frequencies that it appears to be exhibiting here.
just my .02
@EMdevices
Do you have a part number on that core your using? numbers printed on the outside circumference?
As Stefan mentioned, please do not overlook the contribution of distributed capacitance of bifilar or trifilar windings in EMdevices original 2X15T series'd winding.
@Bob
I was just thinking of that when looking at one of my coils. I will put these two in bifilar and wind one over this to try.
@ All
Well, tonight I hooked up my barium ferrite coil core and fried nearly all of my LED's and my brand new transistor.
Found one working LED, a blue one, and decided to test a bit slower. First test with LED and a different transistor was 35 minutes.
Earlier, I had wound a seven turn trigger coil on top of the barium ferrite. I hooked one lead from the bottom winding, to the anode side of the LED's, in parallel with the power input from the toroid. To the other bottom lead, I hooked a 1 yard (meter) 20 gauge wire, and left hanging. I also left the trigger winding leads open (until tomorrow night! ;D)
The LED blinked VERY brightly and went for 37 minutes, 29 seconds before stopping. (new best time, and this without my good transistor! ;D )My thinking, is that this is part of SM's secret, an open end on the collector, which was pulsed and then the control wires were the output, and could be fed back to the collector. I see the bottom coil on the barium ferrite as the collector. When this was hooked up tonight, I read between 25 and 83 38 mv DC on the top trigger wires. This was pulsed, as the cap/oscillator discharged into the LED. Tomorrow night I want to feed back those top trigger wires and see what happens. Maybe nothing, maybe another few minutes. The quickest way to stop a charge is to end the wire. The electrons then radiate perpindicular to the wire, and end up on the control wires. Perhaps we should indeed be pulsing the collectors of our cores, open ended, and look on the control wires for inductive power.
@ Bob
Thank you for the reminder. I think a trifilar winding would be interesting. I hope to try it when I finish my present course of experimentation.
Happy Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
and some of you eleite think your done :o
lol
miles to go ;) we will get there lets scale it up ;D
ist
Quote from: BEP on November 26, 2007, 09:13:40 PM
@btentzer
WW Grainger #6A852 is 'J' type thermocouple extension wire. It is composed of a positive leg of iron and a negative leg which is 45% nickel and 55% copper.
Select 'Grainger item number where 'keyword' is shown and put the 6a852 under that and click 'go'.
Interesting use of T-couple wire. Never thought of that! Might be interesting. Other types may be more interesting :)
Oh.. I thought it was one iron leg... I'll keep looking.
Thanks,
4Tesla
@btentzer
I'm not clear how you had your 37 minute circuit hooked up, can you draw a schematic of it? Thanks!
Would more windings on the collector coil (secondary coil hooked up to the LED) increase the voltage (like a transformer)? This way still using 9 volts to start. If it did, would we need to add a current limiting resistor in series of the LED? Maybe add a current limiting resistor anyway to protect them from blowing up. Maybe try putting a 470ohm resistor in series with the LED. That might keep them from blowing up. I don't think it will effect the efficiency of circuit, but can test to see.
@all
Edit: Does anyone have or used a MPSA18 transistor in this circuit. The specs look good. Here is the site:
http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&productId=210681&pa=210681PS
4Tesla
i dont have a freq counter so best estimates here
2M & 1uF: approx. 3/4hz, 12.34min
1M & 1uF: approx. 6/7hz, 7.44min
0.5M &1uF: approx. 10hz, 4.25min
Hi, I have been watching this thread and tried replicating it using copper coils but to no avail. I found some speaker wire that is multi-stranded and used that for two coils, and used copper for the 3rd coil. Windings are: 24 turns, 14 turns & 6 turns. Run time with 3 LEDs is 5m10s. I'm using 1000mF, and 1mF with 1 meg resistor.
How can I improve the run time? I'm charging it with 12V.
@akashh
Those are good results to start that's for sure.
@all
Still no good. It seems something went wrong with my circuit for some reason as nothing works now. Will try other components.
Once I wind a coil over the bifilar, this will leave me with a coil that is bifilar plus the two other coils. The bifilar having four wires, I will try a mobius loop by putting the opposing wires together and connect the two coupled leads to the circuit. This should cancel the resistance of that coil. Maybe good, maybe not.
Just to get this straight one more time, btentzers circuit is the same as EMs expect btentzers transistor is switched around so the emitter is at the collector and vise versa. All I do is switch the transistor one way or the other but still no go. Geez. Now I am convinced the ferrite is very important.
If you guys look at the Faux Pas thread last few posts there are a few links that are totally great. One on general electronics that you can download 6 volumes and the other on magnetism, etc.
In the magnetism pdf, it says that with an iron core the coil magnetism and the iron magnetism is "additive". Say whaaaaaat?
So I guess the ferrite types are made to hinder to a certain degree the total magnetic saturation allowed to give certain input/output results. If at the low voltage levels we are working at, ferrites still do some cancellation, then maybe iron is the best way to go.
@all
What happens if you replace the trigger coil with a 150ohm resistor?
Thanks,
4Tesla
@wattsup: Try an old torroidal transformer core from a computer smps - that worked fine. And most important is the wire - make sure it isn't copper...
http://wires.co.uk/acatalog/iron.html
any good?
@eon
Does that wire have insulation?
@all
Know of any online sites that sell 20 gauge iron wire?
Thanks,
4Tesla
Iron wire is used to repair plastic coated ringlock fences....also it is used to tie vines and branches..plastic coating is to protect the plant ...iron is for strength ...it used to be used a lot to hold large hay bales together..
Gardening supply stores and fencing supply stores are sources that should have it in one form or another.
You could make your own using any Iron wire and painting it...
Thanks Mannix!
Here are some mods I made to the circuit that might work.
Note: If the first one doesn't work, then the 150ohm resistor in the second circuit would need to be replaced with the trigger coil.
Edit: I have been thinking about the second circuit and I don't think it will work. I was trying to think of a way to isolate the RC circuit while the capacitor in the RC circuit discharges. I do think that the first circuit still can work. If not with 150ohms, try 470ohms and 1k and then 10k and so on. - Thanks
4Tesla
Hey Guys!
I tried to post this in the morning, but OU.com forum would not allow me for some reason. Anyway, it is not hard. I am using only copper 20 gauge magnet wire at this time I will wrap another toroid, when I run out of ideas on this setup and can no longer improve my time.
Here is my circuit. Also I think the Toroid chosen is critical. I think I lucked out in finding these nice ones.
Tonight I try feeding back the barium ferrite secondary and see if it adds time.
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
Cool thanks Bruce! How does the 220 capacitor effect the circuit?
Thanks,
4Tesla
Quote from: 4Tesla on November 27, 2007, 07:04:36 PM
Cool thanks Bruce! How does the 220 capacitor effect the circuit?
Thanks,
4Tesla
It was something that added self running time. I posted the details some time ago and can't remember the exact number. I have tried others there, but it works the best. (give me the best run time.)
I have tried and will continue to try as many nutty ideas as I can think of! ;D The "Edison" way! LOL
Tonight I will test the secondary fed back with and with out diode, in series, just one of the secondary, and also both leads of the secondary. Tomorrow night I will test the coil core in the center of the toroid. That should be interesting!
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
I edited my earlier post. I don't think the second circuit will work.
Thanks,
4Tesla
@ Bentzer hahahaha ( the Edison way ) now thats funny I was thinking on the barriom farrite if you put a secondary winding on it and used it as a pump , mmmÃ, ( arm Chair ) the pump recharges the cap - diode is needed
@btentzer
LOL.. My ideas are "The Edison Way" also.. but admire Tesla, hence the user name.
4Tesla
Quote from: Motorcoach1 on November 27, 2007, 08:26:38 PM
@ Bentzer hahahaha ( the Edison way ) now thats funny I was thinking on the barriom farrite if you put a secondary winding on it and used it as a pump , mmm ( arm Chair ) the pump recharges the cap - diode is needed
Hi Mike!
That is a very good idea and will be my third and last series of test's tonight. A good idea indeed! ;D
Thanks!
Quote from: 4Tesla on November 27, 2007, 08:34:53 PM
@btentzer
LOL.. My ideas are "The Edison Way" also.. but admire Tesla, hence the user name.
4Tesla
Yep, try everything under the sun and see if it lights! LOL
I ran my first test of the secondary fed back to the anode side of the LED, no diode and no extra time. 36 minutes 52 seconds.
I am now running the next test with both leads, no diode. Will let you know.
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
@MANNIX, AND ALL,
has anyone heard of the recall on christmas wreaths? it appears the iron wire that they have been made with have been coated with "LEAD" to prevent oxidation before they were coated with plastic. i wonder, what lead might add to this wire?
lol
sam
Hello All,
Well, I have run my last test for the night. No joy from any of my earlier tests, BUT on this last test, I took the wire going from the anode of the LED to the primary bottom winding on the barium ferrite coil core, and moved it to the negative side of the capacitor. I have one lead of the secondary from the barium ferrite coil, going to a 1N4007 diode and from there to the positive side of the 1000uf capacitor.
The LED lit MUCH more brightly per flash. To the point that it hurt my eyes to look at it! ;D
Total run time was still just over 37 minutes, though.
A new round of tests tomorrow night.
Holiday Cheers and good night,
Bruce
This topic is amazing.!!!!
Bill
The newest torch design use super-cap. to replace the battery. So there is no special to use Capacitor to power your circuit. It is a good start to have a close loop circuit for O.U. research. Because it could prevent wrong result of getting energy from power supply or battery. Some guys waste long time to develop their devices, finally they realize the energy actually from power supply or battery. This close loop circuit is very good to evaluate where can get the energy, From vortex, ether, schuman resonance etc. I think it is wrong to increase the Capacitor to get the longer life time. It should be decrease the Capacitor, and tap to where possible energy source to extent the life time. This is more sensitive to find out the external energy. This circuit should be used as a (Energy- Probe). We don't need a Super Cap. Torch.
Bill perhaps you could amplify a little and tell us why you think this is amazing. I think 37minutes with this setup is significant.If it can be tuned to the point that it does not run down without recharge then Bingo -truely amazing and in fact seriously significant. Until then I adore the approach of these dedicated experimenters
Using the precharged energy to run the circuit is nothing new. More important is to use close loop circuit as an (Energy-Probe) to do research like a compass show you the way to O.U. Only a very little charging energy to startup. Then running forever.
hello all, ive just signed up!
ive been reading these boards for around 6 months now and following various projects in other threads, congrats to hartiberlin for starting a fantastic forums for subjects such as these...
this thread has made me sign up, as i wish to play around with this circut aswell....
@all
i have some questions:
running the circut WITHOUT the coils do you get MORE or LESS running time?
running a DIODE just with a charged CAP gives you more or less running time that running on the circut (with coils) ???
do you have higher or lower running times if you put like a faraday cage over the circut? thus blocking outside electro sources?
answering this question will prove weither or not we have something "special" here....
recapturing the magnetic field from the TRIGGER and putting back into the circut VIA the capture coil is the aim of the game right?
then we use resistors to step down the voltage so we dont fry our transistor yes?
this then recharges the main cap?
then smaller cap then pulses the transistor and starts the circut up agian?
sorry my electronic skills are very weak.... i only know the basics, calrification on this would be great, on a step to step basis on what happens would very much help me understand this...
thanks :)
I was looking at a schematic of a full-wave rectifier and it gave me the idea to try with our toroids. Has anyone tried this?
4Tesla
Attached schematic:
Quote from: supersam on November 27, 2007, 09:17:24 PM
@MANNIX, AND ALL,
has anyone heard of the recall on christmas wreaths? it appears the iron wire that they have been made with have been coated with "LEAD" to prevent oxidation before they were coated with plastic. i wonder, what lead might add to this wire?
lol
sam
China seems to be a primary exporter of lead lately.
Quote from: hakware on November 28, 2007, 05:22:58 AM
Quote from: supersam on November 27, 2007, 09:17:24 PM
@MANNIX, AND ALL,
has anyone heard of the recall on christmas wreaths? it appears the iron wire that they have been made with have been coated with "LEAD" to prevent oxidation before they were coated with plastic. i wonder, what lead might add to this wire?
lol
sam
China seems to be a primary exporter of lead lately.
LOL
Quote from: 4Tesla on November 28, 2007, 05:21:17 AM
I was looking at a schematic of a full-wave rectifier and it gave me the idea to try with our toroids. Has anyone tried this?
4Tesla
Attached schematic:
Looks like it will short pretty quick on the primary with diminishing return from the secondary going into the capacitor. I dont think its going to work.
need to put a transistor on the primary transformer lead and have it switch from the secondary. Might work much better.
Isn't it a common parallel LC circuit? When the primary collapse it will assist in recharging the cap.
Edit: Might need a diode on the primary to keep from going negative.
4Tesla
to induce a magnetic field in the core you need to switch the current on and off, this is what the transistor does in the original design. without it the cap
will completely discharge in the primary within a few moments. it is an LC but since the capacitor is discharged through the loop it is just a matter of the LC time till the capacitor is discharged.
The transistor or switch or something needs to be in place to commutate the flow of electricity to the primary in your diagram. Im pretty sure it would work and I like the design.
The but I think the secondary needs to be on the order of 80 winds with a center tap this should keep the voltages up and hopefully increase run time. Maybe today I might wind up a core like your diagram and throw a transistor in there see what happens. I wish I could find some leds with very low forward voltage drop. like less than .5V . (I wish)
Another possible problem is that the full-wave rectifier is based on a +/- sine wave on the primary... but this circuit modified somehow may work.
Idea: After making the toroid with the center tap. Hook up the primary to a DC pulse ran by a battery, power supply, or function generator and with the secondary unhooked see what the output looks like on the scope and then add the components for the closed loop circuit based on the the output of the secondary.
4Tesla
Hi alexnz,
Welcome to the forum and the MTPU thread! I also only know the basics and would like a detailed explanation of how the circuit works. Besides the current flow schematics from EMdevices, there hasn't been been much discussion on how the circuit works. I understand most of it, but not all. I still don't get the trigger coil at all and why it is needed.
You're the 3rd new member, including myself to join this forum because of this thread.. It's cool, because the circuit has only a few inexpensive components, so the circuit doesn't cost much to build! The only expensive part is getting a scope. I was lucky to get one from my father.
Look forward to your discussion,
4Tesla
In this circuit when resonance is achieved does the cap disappear and then become part of the reactance of the LC circuit. I found that bit of info in one of the old tesla pages it says when this effect happens the inductor L1 and the cap effectively disappear and a large voltage is created across the resistor. This may not apply here but its always easy to forget to tie your shoe when your working on rocket science ;D..
Joe
Hi all there are my thoughts not from any body else or my horse
I think of these circuits like a piston in a motor that goes backwards and fowards...never being able to rotate itself. but driving a crank
If it were possible to syncronise the back wards and fowards into rotation then we would have the field accellerating in one direction....the challenge is to take the back and forth action and convert it into a spin in one direction that is why i think that the centre torroid is an oscillator but it is used to drive correctly phased outer coils which are wrapped the racetracks (collectors). If we could do this then we could have a magnetic jet turbine. or shouldi say 2 turbines in different directions....now would there be a potential difference that was independant of its driving source?
Just a thought that may be useful ...or not!
Lindsay
so mannix
you show up to add but when you preach tubes lol
and i ask you to help with the tubes you hide.......
so be it
this is a joke lol
here is a question for everyone on this site !!!!
DOES NATURE HAVE ELECTRONIC CONTROL ???
NO !!!
need i say more ........
and some of you laugh at me when i say 0 control
now i laugh at all of you ;D
i already told you guys where the answer lies
just incase you all missed what i said i say it agin
TESLA
ist
just ask yourself how long my coil will run for lol ;) hummmmmmm ..... i aint telling why??
cuz i have not even tryed to build it yet :) i dont have to to know my answers
Quote from: innovation_station on November 28, 2007, 04:55:23 PM
so mannix
you show up to add but when you preach tubes lol
and i ask you to help with the tubes you hide.......
so be it
this is a joke lol
here is a question for everyone on this site !!!!
DOES NATURE HAVE ELECTRONIC CONTROL ???
NO !!!
need i say more ........
and some of you laugh at me when i say 0 control
now i laugh at all of you ;D
i already told you guys where the answer lies
just incase you all missed what i said i say it agin
TESLA
ist
just ask yourself how long my coil will run for lol ;) hummmmmmm ..... i aint telling why??
cuz i have not even tryed to build it yet :) i dont have to to know my answers
I used to smoke that stuff but whan i realised that it did my head, in I stopped...just in time..or was it??
@ 4549Raymond:
What I meant when I posted that this topic is amazing was how much related all of this might be to our Earth Batteries topic. I didn't have the time then to post more on the subject. I am just very glad that there are people working on all of this type of experiments.
Bill
@innovation_station
I agree that Tesla's work is a good reference, but no one has gotten OU from it. Are you saying you have?
Please quit LOL at our work and if you know something that would help improve this circuit, please tell us and don't say I'm not telling.
Thanks,
4Tesla
if someone could answer some of my newbie questions on page 17 i would really appricate it ;)
keep up the goodwork everyone, ill be looking to start replicating this myself this weekend or next
cheers
alex
Quote from: alexnz on November 28, 2007, 05:21:12 AM
hello all, ive just signed up!
ive been reading these boards for around 6 months now and following various projects in other threads, congrats to hartiberlin for starting a fantastic forums for subjects such as these...
this thread has made me sign up, as i wish to play around with this circut aswell....
@all
i have some questions:
running the circut WITHOUT the coils do you get MORE or LESS running time?
running a DIODE just with a charged CAP gives you more or less running time that running on the circut (with coils) ???
do you have higher or lower running times if you put like a faraday cage over the circut? thus blocking outside electro sources?
answering this question will prove weither or not we have something "special" here....
recapturing the magnetic field from the TRIGGER and putting back into the circut VIA the capture coil is the aim of the game right?
then we use resistors to step down the voltage so we dont fry our transistor yes?
this then recharges the main cap?
then smaller cap then pulses the transistor and starts the circut up agian?
sorry my electronic skills are very weak.... i only know the basics, calrification on this would be great, on a step to step basis on what happens would very much help me understand this...
thanks :)
I dont understand how you anyone can run it without the coils.
I think runtime is increased without an LED as mentioned in previous posts.
I dont think anyone has run a faraday cage yet.
The resistor is part of the circuit to charge the transistor bias capacitor at set rate.
One think that has not been mentioned is that the placement of the coils on the ferrite seems
critical to me as the phase difference between on and off times would change accordingly. This is a factor I dont think anyone has been taking into consideration when building them.
Hope that helps.
yup...
Well said
I'm not saying Tesla didn't get OU, but no one has got OU, based on his work, meaning no known working replicas.
4Tesla
Hello All,
Tonight I continue experimenting. I tried reversing the primary and secondary as to their input into the circuit compared to what I had last night, but it died about 4 minutes sooner.
Right now I am testing a very strange setup ;D indeed! If anything comes of it I will let you know here, shortly.
I also purchased this evening from Radio Shack, several other type of transistors to test tonight, and ordered (they were out) my best time transistor with my old setup, the MPS3904. But now since I have added the barium ferrite coil core, I want to find a transistor to match, and improve time.
If someone wants no electronics or controls, buy a solar panel. 8)
@ Mannix
Thank you for your thoughts. They are always welcome. I agree with what your are thinking, but I am so far from that step with this circuit of EM's, the CSR. I will say that a tube used as a hyperspeed transistor on a setup such as this would be spectacular. You have tubes, it would make for a meaningful experiment perhaps. I reread the words the other night, and it is about speed with the switching and high voltage speed. Just my holiday penny's worth. ;)
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
My theory in the last circuit was to remove the components that eat up power.
4Tesla
i aint here to argue lol
nor am i hear to spoon feed i said what i had to
do as you will i have done as i have
implementing
hummmm
that is the least of my worries ;)
btw tesla made many ou devices and when you discover the real tpu im just guessing here all his ou devices will make sence in an instance
but im just a grade 9 drop out that works constructiion ;D
what do i know
ist
btw mannix i also guessing if you didnt stop smokeing --- it sure would have not taken you 10 years to get it to run on ss lol and even maybe you could have built it right in the first damm place
it has also been said why reinvent the damm wheel why fix somthing that was never broken hummmm
why not just understand and do what he told you to in his pattends
hummm
1 more thing in the tesla finished tpu unit i bet there is nothing more then metals
not even a cap ;) but this is far from proven YET!! never the less i will get to the bottom of it all i am not worried it has been public domain for the last 100 + years lol
too bad some never understood it years b4 this world would be a whole diffrent place
dont get me wrong i can not build this yet fear and understanding on how and why it works are the only things that hold me back
this i will over come
You're so thoughtful! :)
wise as i call it
knowalage in the wrong hands spell 1 word
DISASTER
we each earn our own answers get it there is no free ride
i was given no free ride
no i am not finished
and i have added all i can at this point in time :)
ist
Quote from: btentzer on November 28, 2007, 12:03:44 AM
Hello All,
Well, I have run my last test for the night. No joy from any of my earlier tests, BUT on this last test, I took the wire going from the anode of the LED to the primary bottom winding on the barium ferrite coil core, and moved it to the negative side of the capacitor. I have one lead of the secondary from the barium ferrite coil, going to a 1N4007 diode and from there to the positive side of the 1000uf capacitor.
The LED lit MUCH more brightly per flash. To the point that it hurt my eyes to look at it! ;D
Total run time was still just over 37 minutes, though.
A new round of tests tomorrow night.
Holiday Cheers and good night,
Bruce
Hello Bruce,
I have been following this thread after being captured by search engine into the "Mike Motor Forum".
I spent ten straight hours reading the "Mike Motor Forum" It is sad that Mike never returned to help out, and the forum dried up. (Why did you sell out Mike?)
Oh well, this is crackable without him.
Do you mind if I brainstorm a bit? I am only hoping to inspire you and the others.
Nature's 'expression' of mathematics has always fascinated me. And nature Is The 'Spiral'.
Have a look at this spiral motor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13JW-Ifg4wA
Now, mathematically, the spiral is related to the hexagon and the pentagram. Is this why Mike's motor was hexagon shaped?
It this why Saturn has a hexagon at it's pole?:
http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2007/03/27/hexagon_spa.html?category=space
http://www.goldenmean.info/fractalgravity/
Please understand, I do not subscribe to Dan Winter's views of philosophy or religion; but he may be on to something with his 'implosion' theory relating to gravity and electricity.
Note Mr. Winter's discussion on 'cone shaped' capacitors on this site:
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:BqXgWt7TNToJ:www.zayra.de/soulcom/thrust/+spherical+dodecahedron&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=Nds&gl=us&strip=0
With All That said and done... You better have a look at this coil:
http://www.matter.org.uk/Schools/Content/MagneticFields/fields_3.html
http://www.matter.org.uk/Schools/Content/MagneticFields/fields_3.html
Now the way I understand OU/befm. When a magnetic field collapses, it 'implodes' on itself fractally. Reaching into another dimension, reaching into the very machinery that runs the universe.
I just can not help but think that a key to this project lies in sacred geometry / and or frequencies.
Keep up the good work Everyone.
It looks like you have something there with that extra coil.
Can you get "this" LED to run?
http://www.techchee.com/2007/10/08/gigantic-led-is-a-lamp-that-is-made-from-dozen-of-leds/
You will eventually!
Ritchie
Hi FreqShift,
Welcome! Cool Avatar! Thanks for the links!
@all
Here is another schematic... as soon as I get my toroids, I'll test these circuits before I post, but until then, everyone is welcome to try them.
Edit: Not sure about the bottom diode.
4Tesla
@ FreqShift
You wrote, "I spent ten straight hours reading the "Mike Motor Forum" It is sad that Mike never returned to help out, and the forum dried up. (Why did you sell out Mike?"
I was not a part of that thread, nor a part of whatever transpired there at all. So if you were meaning others, it should be made clear, because it sounds as if you are speaking of me. Thank you for correcting this statement in advance.
@ 4Tesla
I have tried 4 other transistors tonight. Some are close with their time, one was far worse, by 10 minutes less on the run time. And one did not work at all.
The transistor that works the BEST so far (unclear how my MPS3904 will do, when it arrives) is NPN 9011I. What I would like is an experienced EE to figure out WHY this one works the best. ??? Is it the frequency? The others were stated at 200Mhz, 250MHz, and 300Mhz. is it the voltage, amperage, what? Then I can look for an even better transistor based on that criteria. Thanks in advance for someone's help.
I think some diodes may indeed be in order. I will think on and try some ideas, when my current test is complete. If current test works, I will let you know and the details
This is the specs:
ALH
9011I
Si
npn
310mW
20V
18V
3V
50mA
135>C
50MHz
3.5
132MIN
HIN
TO92-2
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
Quote from: 4Tesla on November 28, 2007, 07:38:42 PM
I'm not saying Tesla didn't get OU, but no one has got OU, based on his work, meaning no known working replicas.
4Tesla
Oh, I think many, many people have gotten OU from his work. Just because they do not post there results on every forum or call a press conference does not mean they are not getting results. Look what happened to Eric Dollard - crushed by the Power Mongers.
:)
he was not called the fore father of free engery for no reason was he ??
ist
@ 4Tesla
Thank you for the welcoming. Hello.
@ btentzer
I do apologize, as my statement was unclear.
I did not mean to infer you were a part of that forum.
The message in that particular sentence,.... was to Mike, if he is watching.
So, I beg your pardon on that wording mistake.
Looking forward to future updates from you and the others.
@4tesla
Perfect! love the new diagram with the tranny in there. I got a toroid wound with a center tap on it putting it together now. Will give it a whirl and see what becomes of it!
Hello All,
Last update for the night. My blinker is tired and I'm seeing flashes of blue. ;D
I tried the circuit with a AA 1.5 volt battery, and had a run time of 14 minutes 40 seconds. I tried diodes in different spots, but anywhere you put it, it kills the effect, with this circuit anyway. I think because as EM said at the first, polarity is constantly switching.
I await my transistors I ordered today, and go to LOWES for some iron insulated wire from the garden department. I also am waiting on some more parts, including a crystal from a crystal radio, germanium diodes and a few other goodies.
Tomorrow, I have only one test planned, and that will be to tie the circuit into earth ground, outside and see what happens. ;)
Holiday Cheers and good night,
Bruce ;D
As for transistors I look at the "Min. hFE @ Ic" . The 2N3904 has a rating of 100 @ .01A and the MPSA18 has one of the best ratings at 500 @ .001A. That is that it looks like it is more efficient.. I don't understand the hFE value. The more efficient the transistor is the less power it eats up.
I found this free software for making schematics:
http://www.expresspcb.com/
I found this free SPICE simulator:
http://www.analog.com/en/content/0,2886,0%255F1206%255F162825%255F0,00.html?ref=ASC1285
I haven't tried the simulator yet but the schematic software works great (haven't posted any yet)! The simulator might support making schematics.
4Tesla
Good odd ball refrence i found that design looks similar to stiffler's circuit just because of the coil ends... figured it might be helpful conceptually
Joe http://leedskalnin.com/Magneticinductionclip.html (http://leedskalnin.com/Magneticinductionclip.html)
Thanks Joe,
That is a very strange circuit!
@all
The simulator didn't handle inductor/transformer coils well, but still worth the download.. very cool simulation of basic circuits! This free version allows up to 25 components and has a lot of advanced features.
Edit:
@hakware
No luck? Try with the original circuit by adding the trigger coil instead of the resistor at the base of the transistor.
4Tesla
My copper magnet wire came.. now just waiting for the toroids! 8)
4Tesla
yup...
Quote from: Localjoe on November 29, 2007, 12:30:11 PM
Good odd ball refrence i found that design looks similar to stiffler's circuit just because of the coil ends... figured it might be helpful conceptually
Joe http://leedskalnin.com/Magneticinductionclip.html (http://leedskalnin.com/Magneticinductionclip.html)
@ All
Did you notice the Iron wire he used on his coil? ;D That is soon, going to be a test for me with this circuit, I promise! Iron wire wrapped toroid.
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
Thanks for checking that out folks i figured it would be useful, when the time comes if anyone has a free moment we need a little help in the earth battery thread in the sense that we now have readings of 1.4-1.7 v and about 2.3 miliamps of current its constant and our electrodes are seperated to the point where redox isnt taking place but there producing a little power. We were wondering if we could design a micro tpu or something similar to make better use of the energy were recieving. So if anyone has a free moment it would be appreciated just check out the earth battery experiments thread. Im working on replicating your micro tpu and ive got a few transistors here that i just cant find part numbers for them for specs so im tinkering. Computer psu that are old or what not are great source for big toroid ususally :)
Joe
Yep, maybe the MTPU can be used someway to boost the power for the Earth ground battery... good idea! :)
4Tesla
Quote from: btentzer on November 29, 2007, 04:02:36 PM
Quote from: Localjoe on November 29, 2007, 12:30:11 PM
Good odd ball refrence i found that design looks similar to stiffler's circuit just because of the coil ends... figured it might be helpful conceptually
Joe http://leedskalnin.com/Magneticinductionclip.html (http://leedskalnin.com/Magneticinductionclip.html)
@ All
Did you notice the Iron wire he used on his coil? ;D That is soon, going to be a test for me with this circuit, I promise! Iron wire wrapped toroid.
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
When you get the iron wire are you going to have one iron coil and one copper coil or both of the coils going to be iron... or are you going to try both ways? The other thing is which coil would be iron the primary or the secondary.. another thing that can be tested both ways.
4Tesla
Quote from: 4Tesla on November 29, 2007, 07:45:44 PM
When you get the iron wire are you going to have one iron coil and one copper coil or both of the coils going to be iron... or are you going to try both ways? The other thing is which coil would be iron the primary or the secondary.. another thing that can be tested both ways.
4Tesla
@ 4Tesla
Yes to your first and second question. I will keep my 20 gauge copper coil I am using now, and rewind another toroid ferrite core. I have three of them. I will then test the iron wire with this set up, and then test both of them together, and about 4 or 5 other experiments teasing my brain. ;D
@All
I have just arrived home and I am about to go outside and test earth ground in two or three configurations. We will see what happens. I will let you know.
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
EDIT:I ran three separate experiments tonight, two being hooked to earth ground. Three minutes and five minutes LESS run time. So that is a no go.
Tomorrow I look for iron wire locally and rewind my barium ferrite coil core secondary. I will also seriously research transistors.
<removed>
yup...
now those are some powerfull words there grumpy
:)
espicialy when you hook up a diode and a cap ;)
lol
ist
<removed>
@ All
I have a little bit of good news this evening. I received by mail everything I have been waiting on, both from Radio Shack with my 3904 transistors (4 of them), and from UPS with my crystals, adjustable capacitors, gemanium diodes and a few other goodies. I also purchased today from Lowe's, some floral wire. It is either zinc or iron with a green coating. Perfect for wrapping a toroid! ;D
Radio shack replaced their MSR3904 with the 2N3904. Stock number 276-2016. Well, this transistor had worked the best with my old setup before I burned it up. I tried it with this new set up and just completed the test. New BEST time: 38 minutes 15 seconds
Details:
Collector-Base Voltage VCBO 60 V
Collector-Emitter Voltage VCEO 40 V
Emitter-Base Voltage VEBO 6 V
Collector Current IC 200 mA
Base Current IB 50 mA
Collector Power
Dissipation
Ta=25
PC
625 mW
Tc=25 1.5 W
Junction Temperature Tj 150
Storage Temperature Range Tstg -55 150
I will be rewinding my barium ferrite coil core tonight. I then have a couple of experiments in mind. I will let you know if anything interesting turns up, tonight.
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
@IST
Nature has its own type of electronics or your brain would not function and your heart would not beat. I know what you mean though.
The transistor is a good thing in that it permits some type of control, but the downside is it does not permit flyback to return back to source or the void. That damn diode. There's no turning back.
All Tesla had was commutators, slow. medium and fast rotations and Caps freak galore.
Macedonia has a BUZZ11 or something diode that comes from computer power supplies. You should look it up. I think his circuit permitted a cap recharge every 10 seconds or so. Search Macedonia CD.
Honk has the tech savvy to push, then slide to recapture, push, then slide again. Sort of like a three step. Hope his next circuit works on Jacks device. So do some of the RV guys who are starting to capture the drive motor flyback to re-charge batteries.
Most of the EEers here have not really delved in circuits that require a 4 step or more logical sequence. Most projects are linear based design. Put in the orange, get out the juice. Not enough juice? Ram in more oranges. Most have not used Teslas method of actually juggling the fields, swooshing them out, capturing them back. Thinking of the entire system as a loop.
SM's system is a loop. This circuit is a loop, although somewhat aloof.
Once we know where and when the flyback is generated and how to capture it and then how to put it back into the system, this loop will be less aloof.
I think one of the main hold backs is we are trying to do this with very low voltages and the coils are hogging it up and the transistors have a power dissipation rating that is self explanatory, plus resistors always cost a few watts here and there. If you simply pull out the transistor, does the led still light? What if we started to up the anti. Larger coils, real f*&?k&n 12V bulbs instead of these furty LEDS. Some nicer sized caps, more meat. Something I can put my DC clamp-on ammeter around.
I just got this transistor that's in a metal cylinder. Supposed to handle a little more "juice". Did I say that? Here we go again. lol
Keep on pushin guys. My current ferrites are the sh*ts. I'm winding a dual bifilar mobius coil on some iron.
I was thinking about reversible effects. I stuck an LED under a bright light and measured voltage! So I'm wondering whether running the TPU under bright sunlight will show a different run time vs in a dark box.
The coil material would have a bearing on this effect though.
Hello All,
This is my rewound barium ferrite coil core. Secondary wound in the same direction as Primary, also, more turns. Also, HV electrical tape separating the primary and secondary, instead of the tissue paper I had been using. I expect good results with this coil core. ;D Cudo's to Dr. Stiffler for proper winding instructions.
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
yup...
Hello All,
I have added my rewound barium ferrite coil core. I have one lead of the primary not connected. ;D The other lead of the primary goes to the positive + side of the 1000uf capacitor.
Both leads of the newly wound secondary goes to the negative side of the 1000uf capacitor.
I then placed another 221 ceramic between the leads of the secondary.
New BEST time: 38 minutes 52 seconds
Total time gained tonight: 1 minute 22 seconds.
Good progress for the night.
Tomorrow night, I will hook EM's version of DR. Shifflers circuit to the oscillator. It should be interesting. I also want to experiment with placing a primary in a different place in the circuit. Tried putting it on the positive side of the 1000uf cap and forgot to use a diode (just realized) ;) and it did not work (will try a new germanium tomorrow night!).
Holiday Cheers, and good night,
Bruce
Hi all,
I haven't gotten my toroids yet, but found a couple in an old PC PS I had.. going to wrap one tonight and try the original MTPU circuit. I'll let you know when I get it working.
Edit: I haven't been able to get mine working. :-[ When I get my other toroids, I'll try again. Man, winding toroids isn't easy. :) Since the TPU uses the Earths magnetic field, which isn't very strong, has anyone tried a stronger magnetic field by putting magnets on both sides of the coil?
Edit2: Got it working :) but short run time - about 4min.
4Tesla
<removed>
why not set this aside and go study??
after you learn there will be no guessing
ist
as i hear it electricty as we call it is extreamly smart lol
the best of luck
Quote from: acerzw on December 01, 2007, 08:50:08 AM
@4Tesla
Since you built the original circuit you want to turn the transistor round and do all the rest of btenzer's mods to get a decent run time...
Acerzw
The transistor doesn't work backwards for me like it does for btenzer. I'll work on efficiency.. I think having a better core will help.. I'll be getting more soon.
@4Tesla
Hi everybody,
I have replicated this, works!!!
Used transistor bc547, 1000uF, toroid with 20,10,6 turns...
blinks for a long time, but...
led blinks are very weak, what should I do to make it blinks brighter?
seems it needs more current
ps. last few blinks are much brighter :o
;D
I remember now, put battery instead of capacitor and you have
electronic candle which works for months
http://www.allweathercandles.com/product_zoom.php?tipsvece=G300
ps. this is going to my bicycle wheels ;)
Hi all,
I completed my circuit as well.
1.5uF, 1000uF, BC550C
I used 0.6mm iron wire (bought at gardening shop), bifilar 30 turns.
Trigger is 0.54mm copper enameled wire. (this is probably too thin)
It seems that it works better when trigger is on top of the iron wires. Operating time is quite short, like not really more than 10 secs, but I have a kind of spin-up effect. So led starts out with a strong blink, than it goes faster and faster before it dies out.Its like almost continuously on, but at this time it is really dim.
I am following this thread from the start, but I don't remember anyone talking about this. Is it some common thing?
I'll try other wires, magnets and another transistor too.
Explications are welcome for the spin-up effect. :)
Cheers,
Greg
@Gregi
Mine is at a constant rate.. but haven't tried iron wire yet or two types of wire... that would be my guess of what is causing this effect.. but I don't know why it is happening.
@Silvije
Mine is also weak. I think it has to do with the core. One thing I am going to try is to add more windings of the coil going to the LED (secondary coil) and see if that increases the current.
Edit: Extra winding on the secondary didn't work.. let me know if you get the LED brighter. - Thanks
4Tesla
Hello All,
I tried placing one lead of the primary of the bfcc (barium ferrite coil core) and ran it to a germanium diode and then to the postive side of the 1000uf Capacitor. I LOST 11.5 minutes run time. Go figure. ???
I have wound a second barium ferrite and placed it in parallel with the first. I am testing that now, as I type.
Two other experiments I hope to accomplish tonight. Rewind one of my toroids with a copper trigger, 10 turns and then a trifilar winding with my new iron (or Nickel. Pkg does not say) floral wire. And to wrap a third bfcc with a iron secondary, and see if any difference in run time. I will let you know, as always if I can increase run time! ;D
Also, everyone should know that my LED is not just barely there, but is bright blinking the entire time, except the last few minutes. ;D
@ EM
I attempted to build your modified Dr. Shiffler's circuit, but I have had a difficult time. Please give me the transistor number, and values for the pot, C1, etc. This would be very helpful.
I want to use your oscillator to kick start the good doctor's circuit and then feed back that to the oscillator. The efficiency of the CSR combined with the perhaps OU from the Doctor's circuit, might just give us enough to make this thing self sustaining! ;D Thanks!
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
Bruce, I used the same NPN from Radio Shack with the hfe=200 (15 per box) that you have. Potentiometer is 2K ohms. But I'm sure others will work or can be made to work with a resistor in series.
EM
Quote from: EMdevices on December 01, 2007, 09:12:19 PM
Bruce, I used the same NPN from Radio Shack with the hfe=200 (15 per box) that you have. Potentiometer is 2K ohms. But I'm sure others will work or can be made to work with a resistor in series.
EM
@ EM
Thank you very much. I just need the recommended capacitor value for C1, please, and I should be good to go.
How are your own experiments progressing?
@ All
It took me forever to wind that iron coil. I was very sad that the Trifilar wind did not work with this type of wire on my core, at all. :( I then tried it wound the exact same way as my copper 20 gauge magnet wire, and the LED only self sustained for 1 minute 10 seconds. I tried it several times, and it was always at that, give or take a few seconds either way.
This proves several things to me:
1. The coil is most certainly involved in the 38 minutes, 52 second run times with my other copper wound coil.
2. That this metal wire I used, (either iron, nickel, or steel) was not useful for my modified circuit.
I have one experiment left to run for the night. I will let you know what comes of it, if any success.
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
@All, could you measure current which goes through LED?
Also it would be helpfull if you provide voltage drop for you LEDs,
and minimum current for lets say enough bright operation...
so we could compare these super bright LEDs performance...
I am using yellow 4-legs superflux led from lumileds i think..
thnx.
ps. how come noone commented this link http://www.allweathercandles.com/product_zoom.php?tipsvece=G300
hi all
been very busy with work commitments, but been doing a few experiments. i started looking at winding a moebius coil and found this (further down on the page) on a toroidal. i know a little about moebius coils but it doesn't look like 'the typical moebius' setup.
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/tripole.htm
i have free time this week and will be producing two identical halves as a little test. anyone else tried this yet?
i have taken apart my original 'cap in coil' setup but i can say that with different loads and a higher starting volts, it did some strange things like the very bright blips at the end (slower). it sometimes didn't start for 10-15sec after charging but then started suddenly after a very bright flash. i notice that sometimes the led just starts flashing and other times it just lights until i remove the battery then off it goes.
i cant find insulated iron wire for love nor money round here, so i may just get some bare and coat it. does it have to be insulated?
i have modified original schematic and added second LED, to the collector circuit
this one blinks much brighter than one in recapture circuit, so it seems much higher
current pulses live there
this explains my 4 dead transistors so far
Quote from: eon on December 02, 2007, 07:41:30 AM
hi all
been very busy with work commitments, but been doing a few experiments. i started looking at winding a moebius coil and found this (further down on the page) on a toroidal. i know a little about moebius coils but it doesn't look like 'the typical moebius' setup.
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/tripole.htm
i have free time this week and will be producing two identical halves as a little test. anyone else tried this yet?
i have taken apart my original 'cap in coil' setup but i can say that with different loads and a higher starting volts, it did some strange things like the very bright blips at the end (slower). it sometimes didn't start for 10-15sec after charging but then started suddenly after a very bright flash. i notice that sometimes the led just starts flashing and other times it just lights until i remove the battery then off it goes.
i cant find insulated iron wire for love nor money round here, so i may just get some bare and coat it. does it have to be insulated?
@ Eon
To answer your question, yes it needs to be insulated. I tried it without, and it does not work. I too have seen all the things you described, but with modifications, it simply blinks from the second it is kick started, until it becomes so dim it fades out in the final seconds.
Quote from: Silvije on December 02, 2007, 07:43:07 AM
i have modified original schematic and added second LED, to the collector circuit
this one blinks much brighter than one in recapture circuit, so it seems much higher
current pulses live there
this explains my 4 dead transistors so far
@ Silvije
Good work. Please be kind enough to post your modified circuit, it may help me with an idea I have not yet thought of.
I am using a standard 3.7 volt, 20 ma LED from Radio Shack. All colors work, though BLUE seems to be the absolute brightest. I think it has more phosphorus in it, thus more mcd rating.
@ ALL
I have increased my run time consistently by 10 seconds. (baby steps) I have added a 1N4007 diode (I tried it with a germanium, but not the same run time) on the negative side of the 1.5uf capacitor, with voltage going to this cap. Today I will try it in reverse and a few other experiments I can think of.
New Best Run Time: 39 minutes 7 secondsGoal: To continue to increase the run time, as much as possible, until I have run completely out of ideas. (I have a lot of them) Then I want to use this oscillator to kick start EM's Dr. Shifflers modified circuit (yes, I know it will only flash) and then feed that back to the oscillator and self sustain. Big goals, I know! ;D
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
Hi,
@mramos
Here is a pictures and schematic from my micro TPU. It really rans 10 hours and 52 minutes!
You need charge the supercap (0.22F) till 30 seconds. Charge voltage is 5.5V.
scorpio
Quote from: btentzer on December 02, 2007, 09:17:05 AM
Good work. Please be kind enough to post your modified circuit, it may help me with an idea I have not yet thought of.
I am using a standard 3.7 volt, 20 ma LED from Radio Shack. All colors work, though BLUE seems to be the absolute brightest. I think it has more phosphorus in it, thus more mcd rating.
here it is,
i am thinking about replacing LED from the recapture circuit with plain 1n4148
8)
now we are talking
and use that power for..... hummmmm
do it agin and agin then take off ;D
there ya go
ist
how ever i still see circurity that is not required lol
did tesla have fets or trannys lol
ist
I just have to say that i am not expecting any OU or free energy here,
I simply want to have nice led blinker which will blink long enough time and bright enough...
...to put it on wheels of my bike...
little magnet will charge capacitor through an extra coil and rectifier,
then when i stop the bike, my leds will blink for few more minutes...
that is my goal, leave the tesla out of it :)
ps. i use 2M Ohm pot, and various capacitors... for now i am not really satisfied
with frequency shift during discharge, so i am thinking maybe zener diode will help,
or maybe i should drop this circuit, and make my blinker with 555 ;D
Quote from: scorpio on December 02, 2007, 09:26:32 AM
Hi,
@mramos
Here is a pictures and schematic from my micro TPU. It really rans 10 hours and 52 minutes!
You need charge the supercap (0.22F) till 30 seconds. Charge voltage is 5.5V.
scorpio
@ Scorpio
.22F = 220,000uf and for your set up you ran it nearly 11 hours.
My modified setup uses 1000uf. 220 times less than your super cap. Using straight math, my circuit with your super cap would run 143 hours. Add some more super caps in parallel and it will run as long as it want. But it is still using the battery to charge the cap. The idea is to make it self sustaining. I hope that help put it into perspective.
Quote from: Silvije on December 02, 2007, 09:54:13 AM
here it is,
i am thinking about replacing LED from the recapture circuit with plain 1n4148
@ Silvije
Thank you. That is an interesting spot to put another LED. I will try that right away.
Right now, I have added a second transistor near my barium ferrite coil core, and added a ceramic 221 in another spot. I will let you know if it gains time. I will add anything, but I will not increase the 1000 uf cap. I am thinking about replacing it with a 450uf to cut my run time down, for testing. 39 minutes is a long time to wait between experiment! :D
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
<removed>
@all,
Just got back this morning from a long flight and right now, I'm back tinkering this micro-tpu. :D
This evening, I'd noticed something odd.
I had my "all-copper" tpu running with just 1 blue LED and at around .8V, the blinking stops and when I put my fingers to the LED legs, it starts blinking again right down to .4V...I haven't tried a separate grounding for the circuit yet....but I think I will....Don't know what's going on but certainly the human body aids the LED blinking.... ;D
Secondly, I rewound my iron wire (recycled from previous "iron coil" to another torroid. It's my biggest I have. OD is 72mm and I "suspect" it's a "pure" iron one. It's definitely not a composite. Coil turns are as follows: Collector: 22 turns (iron wire) , Recapture: 14 turns (iron wire) and Trigger at 12 turns. All turns comes to fill up about 1/3 of the torroid and my run time is 26 minutes. Did the test twice. Verified correct. Modified EM's circuit in two areas. My LED + goes to coil and the negative goes to GND. Changed cap to 220nF instead of 1uF. Run time longer with 220nF. Played around with 470nF. Result is almost the same with 220nF.
EDIT: Winding for the above is straight (no overlay) Collector, Recapture and Trigger. Equally spaced between these three coils.
I've been examining my stash of torroids and after going through the torroids with many coillings; I can only deduce that the composite ones performs poorly when compared to the iron ones.
By the way, I picked up 2 rolls of iron wire at my local tesco. It's called "garden wire" Comes in 60 feet roll. It's not the same quality as my white-coated iron wire but I'm not complaining paying about US$0.80 per roll.
Managed to kill another 2 Blue LEDs and a 2N2904 in the process.....
Next stop: wound the big torroid and test.
Cheers, cp
@guys
When you mention cap values, please include the voltage rating also since this can change dramatically the device performance.
Also, I think each builder should chose one of their former posts and keep a build spec updated there and include the location of the build in your slogan section like @Acerzw has under each of his posts. This way we, you can still add new posts of changes, etc., but have a link to your standard build somewhere on the thread.
Just a suggestion.
I have a lot of radio ferrite antennas (rod and flat types) that already have one two or three coils wound on them as standard design. Tried a first one having three coils and the led blinked right away, but only lasted 12 seconds with a 4 volts charge. I'm only charging to 4 volts cause I'm tired of blowing my leds and putting a resistor before the led just eats more juice.
here's a new run time target for you .... 1000 years ;)
from Everyday Practical Electronics, December 2006
"this circuit will brightly flash an ultrabright LED at 0.5Hz for more than twenty years ââ,¬â€œ drawing 12μA off six high capacity AA batteries. If the component values are used, it will flash, although more dimly, for close
to one thousand years ââ,¬â€œ drawing just 0.3μA"
just a little humour, or maybe something to learn from ...
tak
So does the length of the wire around the torroid have any relation to the frequency of the led flashing?
Quote from: acerzw on December 02, 2007, 01:08:28 PM
@btenzer
If you reduce your cap it will be interesting to see if the run-time drops in exact proportion or differs...
Have you tried placing your cap in your coil?
Acerzw
@ Acer
I haven't tried the cap inside my toroid yet. I will get to that experiment soon though.
And I too was wondering if the run time would drop in direct proportion to the uf reduction of the main cap. I will stop and Radio Shack tomorrow and buy an electrolytic 450uf or 500uf depending on what's available.
Quote from: sanmankl on December 02, 2007, 01:26:58 PM
@all,
Just got back this morning from a long flight and right now, I'm back tinkering this micro-tpu. :D
This evening, I'd noticed something odd.
I had my "all-copper" tpu running with just 1 blue LED and at around .8V, the blinking stops and when I put my fingers to the LED legs, it starts blinking again right down to .4V...I haven't tried a separate grounding for the circuit yet....but I think I will....Don't know what's going on but certainly the human body aids the LED blinking.... ;D
Secondly, I rewound my iron wire (recycled from previous "iron coil" to another torroid. It's my biggest I have. OD is 72mm and I "suspect" it's a "pure" iron one. It's definitely not a composite. Coil turns are as follows: Collector: 22 turns (iron wire) , Recapture: 14 turns (iron wire) and Trigger at 12 turns. All turns comes to fill up about 1/3 of the torroid and my run time is 26 minutes. Did the test twice. Verified correct. Modified EM's circuit in two areas. My LED + goes to coil and the negative goes to GND. Changed cap to 220nF instead of 1uF. Run time longer with 220nF. Played around with 470nF. Result is almost the same with 220nF.
EDIT: Winding for the above is straight (no overlay) Collector, Recapture and Trigger. Equally spaced between these three coils.
I've been examining my stash of torroids and after going through the torroids with many coillings; I can only deduce that the composite ones performs poorly when compared to the iron ones.
By the way, I picked up 2 rolls of iron wire at my local tesco. It's called "garden wire" Comes in 60 feet roll. It's not the same quality as my white-coated iron wire but I'm not complaining paying about US$0.80 per roll.
Managed to kill another 2 Blue LEDs and a 2N2904 in the process.....
Next stop: wound the big torroid and test.
@ sanmankl
If you could post a picture of your newly wound coil, that would be appreciated. I must try to locate pure iron insulated wire. I suspect the wire I used the other day was an alloy. It was made in china, and does not say. It was probably lead wire! LOL ;D
You may want to try higher voltage rated LED's and Transistor if you keep frying them. That may turn out to be a good thing!
Touching the LED and it comes on, well, that is just strange. I will try that tonight when mine dies.
Welcome back to the hunt. ;)
@ All
This afternoon I spent a great deal of time carefully reducing all of my circuit wires, by at least half, and sometimes eliminating them altogether. I am now testing to see if this has increased my time. I will let you know if it does.
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
By the way, I picked up 2 rolls of iron wire at my local tesco. It's called "garden wire" Comes in 60 feet roll. It's not the same quality as my white-coated iron wire but I'm not complaining paying about US$0.80 per roll.
Managed to kill another 2 Blue LEDs and a 2N2904 in the process.....
Next stop: wound the big torroid and test.
[/quote]
If you could post a picture of your newly wound coil, that would be appreciated. I must try to locate pure iron insulated wire. I suspect the wire I used the other day was an alloy. It was made in china, and does not say. It was probably lead wire! LOL ;D
You may want to try higher voltage rated LED's and Transistor if you keep frying them. That may turn out to be a good thing!
Touching the LED and it comes on, well, that is just strange. I will try that tonight when mine dies.
[/quote]
@all,
Here' a cellphone picture (sorry about the quality but it's convenient)
I have already rewound my big torroid so here's the picture of the new coil. Below are 3 more coils. The one on the left is an all iron wire and the two smaller ones are all copper.
I'm going to try some coil configuration this evening to see if I can get better run times. Looking at my testing notes, many more turns may not give better run times........so many configs to work on....
Cheers, cp
@guys
I did some tests with my first Cook coil that I made some time ago, which for those who are not familiar, is a pair of secondary/primaries on 2 straight iron wire cores or iron rod cores. Anyways, this gives me two secondaries and two primaries to work with. I connected one secondary as the recapture, one as the other coil. This leaves me with two primaries as trigger. These are big winds compared to the ferrite coils and light times are very short, but I have seen something crazy.
I connected the primaries in series and time was about 8 seconds and could see the blink. I connected them in parallel and time was about 4 seconds. I then connected one side of each primary to the trigger locations and left the other sides open and time was about 20 seconds. Pretty crazy.
I wonder if each open end was connected to a collector plate, if this would help more.
There is a direct and noticeable relationship between the trigger length and run time and if you have two triggers with only one side connected, this doubled the time. So guys, maybe try to wind two shorter triggers and try connection combos.
Today we have a major snow storm, so best thing is not to go to work and do some more testing. Ho Ho Ho.
@all, good job guys, I'm pleased so many people like the circuit and are replicating and having fun.
@bruce, I used different cap values, but the larger the cap and the larger the resistor, the longer the interval between flashes. (I'm talking about the small cap not the main 1000 uF cap) I think my longest results were obtained when it flashed every few seconds ( I think I used a 22 uF cap and 1 Mohm resistor, or maybe it was a 10 uF cap.) With each flashing, even though we recycle the magnetic energy that has built up in the torroid, there are small losses. I like your idea of using a smaller capacitance for the main cap, so you don't have to wait so long. :D By the way, I've been taken with the Stiffler project for now, but I plan on returning to this one shortly.
Here's a bit of engineering, make sure you opperate in the linear portion of the inductor, before the IR losses take effect, in other words, if the small cap value is too high, there will be enough charge in it to drive the base current for longer then necessary and the collector current will increase linearly at first but then the resitance of the windings will start to become significant and losses will result. So, use lots of turns of wire if you want to scale up to bigger caps. But, I like the idea of working with smaller cap values so we can quickly gage whats happening. (A scope is a good thing to have :) )
EM
@EM
I will try like you say.
@Guys
Look at this site for toroids. Kind of makes your mouth water.
http://www.beverlymfginc.com/
I think I'll send them an e-mail and ask them to visit this thread at OU.com. Maybe one of them can give us some pointers.
@ btentzer
OK. You have right. What can I modify the circuit for more efficiency with 1000 uF cap?
scorpio
Quote from: scorpio on December 03, 2007, 01:27:35 PM
@ btentzer
OK. You have right. What can I modify the circuit for more efficiency with 1000 uF cap?
scorpio
@ Scorpio
Reread my posts of modification made. Try them or make your own. It is all about experimenting and see what works. Everyones result will always be different because of different toroids and different winds on said toroid. Then post your results, good or bad.
@Wattsup
I liked your idea of trying out the cook coil. Now that was creative. Put the two, perhaps connected the mobius way and then retry?
I gave you the phone number and name where I got my toroid. You can call and order from them if you like. At least we know their toroids work.
Quote from: EMdevices on December 03, 2007, 09:36:55 AM
@all, good job guys, I'm pleased so many people like the circuit and are replicating and having fun.
@bruce, I used different cap values, but the larger the cap and the larger the resistor, the longer the interval between flashes. (I'm talking about the small cap not the main 1000 uF cap) I think my longest results were obtained when it flashed every few seconds ( I think I used a 22 uF cap and 1 Mohm resistor, or maybe it was a 10 uF cap.) With each flashing, even though we recycle the magnetic energy that has built up in the torroid, there are small losses. I like your idea of using a smaller capacitance for the main cap, so you don't have to wait so long. :D By the way, I've been taken with the Stiffler project for now, but I plan on returning to this one shortly.
Here's a bit of engineering, make sure you opperate in the linear portion of the inductor, before the IR losses take effect, in other words, if the small cap value is too high, there will be enough charge in it to drive the base current for longer then necessary and the collector current will increase linearly at first but then the resitance of the windings will start to become significant and losses will result. So, use lots of turns of wire if you want to scale up to bigger caps. But, I like the idea of working with smaller cap values so we can quickly gage whats happening. (A scope is a good thing to have :) )
EM
@EM
Good to hear from you! Thanks for the info, but actually, the cap values I need for C1 and C2 are
from your modified circuit of Dr. Shifflers Circuit. Thanks in advance!
@All
I am testing a 1uf Tantalum cap right now. Then I will exchange the 1000uf cap for a 470uf cap. I will determine my new base time and then continue from there.
My first LED's were 1.7 volt/20 ma. I have for sometime now, been testing with 3.7 volt/20ma LED. Tonight I will add a second one of these in series, and parallel and test both ways. They are blue, rated at 3700 mcd! VERY bright. VERY expensive. :o
Last night, I was seeing which LED's were not burned out, plugging it into my system and one exploded. Not burned, but the glass top broke and flew across the room with a pop. Wife wasn't fond of my experiments producing flying shrapnel in the house! ;D
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
Anyone tried an iron core yet?
Still haven't gotten my toroids yet. :( The ones I got from the old PC PS are the yellow type and didn't work well. You all keep up the good work!
Later,
4Tesla
14 minutes 10 seconds run time, using a 470uf to replace the 1000uf cap that lasted 39 minutes 7 seconds. Straight math does not work here. The 470uf is rated 35volts, and the 1000uf is rated 16volts. perhaps the cap with lower voltage allows less loss??
Nothing is adding time anymore. But I still have an idea or two.
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
@all
I am impressed with the progress for this tiny device by EMdevices.
As I was doing an old experiment of mine where a 7ah lead acid battery runs my circuit and charges itself up I ran into this weird thing that Is kind of related to this thread.
I have a few coils connected, some LEDs (some in parallel and one in series with the parallel ones) and a few more parts (basically it is an oscilator with a mosfet and coils and utilizing the BEMF). As I was running the cuircuit I connected a 9v NIMH battery to be recharged at the output of the circuit. I notice that when I would turn off my circuit the 9v battery would now feed my LEDs (they are there as a visual load). So, I decided to discharged that 9v baby and connect it again. And again my LEDs would be up. So I discharged it again and again connected it and the LEDs again light up.
So, I decided to short the 9v bat and let it sit for the night shorted. Next day I connected it to the circuit and slowly it would come up in voltage and light the LEDs again. So again I shorted it many, many, many times until I would see it dead BUT it still light the LEDs up. So I put a amp analog meter in series with the LEDs (no battery on this meter just the needle meter) and it is steady for 2 days now at .3 ma (point three milliamps, it is a one milliamp range meter).
So, I did the same with a regular 9v battery, shorted it and I could sucessfully kill it, BUT the NIMH bat does not die and my LEDs are up and running as I type this message.
Sorry for the long explanation. I could post my circuit but I think it is the battery really that is doing that. I will run more tests with a more simplified version of my design later but for now I want to see how long it will light the LEDs. BTW the LEDs are lit in constant current, no pulsating. Steady voltage accros of 1.681v and current of .22 milliamps. No other meters connected to it only the batteryless amp meter (which is by itself eating even more current). I can not kill that 9v battery. I could come up with a video.
This is SO WEIRD!!!
Fausto.
@plengo
Wow that is cool!.. Please do post a schematic and a video. -Thanks
@scorpio
I noticed that you have put your cap inside the coil... I think that may be partly why you had such a long run time!
Later,
4Tesla
@4Tesla
I posted a video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtgleFVnHGU. Please, laught at it. I know, it is stupid BUT that's how things go. I make one design, see things that are strange, change things, remove other, put some others. Test again, see more weird things, think, change again, remove some variables, try it again, next thing you know you have something totally absurd and the best of all, working.
I will clean up the mess and come up with something that I think is really making a difference than I will post the schematic. Definitely the coils are important. The LEDs and resistor are very important and the battery is even more important. I will say though, it is not the battery charge that is running this LEDs, because I killed them many, many, many times. I even left it overnight shorted.
I does not matter it comes back. Now, looking at my scope I have a sine wave signal that is about 1vpp that is really intriguing me, why and from where? It is not a magnetic field because I can move magnets around and nothing changes, not even a little bit on the scope and the LEDs.
It is additive because I put now two 9v NIMH in parallel with another one in series, total 3 bats, so voltage is steady at 1.7+v and current steady at .6 milliamps. Would that be them .15 milliwatts? or 1.5 milliwats? Sorry for the bad math. One thing that is interesting is I can not KILL for good none of this rechargable batteries really once connected to this circuit. ???.
Fausto.
@plengo
Maybe put the battery in the freezer for a while, let it thaw out and try it again. This may give a better dead effect. Otherwise, it will simply simulate me starting my car this morning. lol
@plengo,
Try putting it in a faraday cage to shield it from local radio stations.
@ 4Tesla
If I pull the cap to outside the runing time is the same...
I just use for compact size.
scorpio
perhaps a silly question however what if the current and voltage vary from a powersource? how would you go about stabalizing that? the main question i have is can a capacitor do this? im looking for a small simple curcuit that will stabalize a current and voltage. mind you its not expected to be very wild but there are some fluctuations expected possibly between 1v and 3v with 1-5amp
i have a basic knowledge of electronics but sadly i have not fully grasped it yet.
thanks!
@plengo
Great work.. I see that you're using a lab. Are you sure that there isn't power hooked up via the lab batteries? IMO no circuit, experiment, or idea is a stupid one.. keep up the good work!
4Tesla
Quote from: scorpio on December 04, 2007, 06:26:50 PM
@ 4Tesla
If I pull the cap to outside the runing time is the same...
I just use for compact size.
scorpio
Thanks for checking!
4Tesla
@ 4Tesla
you're right. I checked the lab. I removed the lab. I caged it inside an aluminum container connected to ground and the light goes on. I will make another video showing that (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2lNNOZ-y78). I simply can not kill the battery. I dont have another explanation why the LED goes lit. I connected now 3 9v NIMH bats to see how I can scale this thing and it worked. Now I have more current .04 milliamp and 1.7+volts. It is amazing. I left it running again today the whole day and it simply does not change it just lights there without even blinking or going down in voltage or current. Simply runs.
I am simplifying the circuit to the point that I think the batteries ARE the most important part of the whole circuit. Somehow the coils and the battery are charging the battery and draining the energy on the LEDs therefore balancing everything.
I also tried inside a cage and still works the same. On my video I show that inside the cage the osciloscope will not see any RF but outside the cage it does shows signs of RF on the circuit although very irrelevant. Magnets do not affect anything. Shorting the Batteries as the thing runs will have no long term effect. It restores itself up to the same point that it was.
Replacing the Battery with any kind of Capacitors will not work.
Fausto.
ps: I am sorry for bringing this experiment of mine here. It is not my intention to deviate from the Micro TPU it is that the output goal seams to be pretty similiar: running a LED for as long as one wants. I think my approach is proving itself to be the most amazing and durable. Can someone try that too?
Photo explanation:
B1 = is the 9v NIMH dead battery. You can buy one, short it for days and connect to the circuit.
The resistor can be any value as long as allows the amp meter to be inside its range.
My amp meter is a 1 milliamp range.
D2 and D3 are there just to see if voltage is still enough to go through the LEDs after having some load going through D1 and Resistor.
L1 is a hand made coil with 1500 turns bifilar with 23 and 18 awg (from an Bedini SSG project).
L2 is a relay that I am using only the trigger coil. It affects the final voltage somehow.
The "Not connected" part of the circuit was where I had the second part of another experiment where I would cause the B1 battery to be charged.
That's it. The LED will go lit for a long time (4 days now).
@plengo
Thanks for the update.. I think your posts are fine here.. same concept, coils to collect the power to light the LED. Someone could try to use a rechargeable battery with their toroid.
4Tesla
Will this work?:
@plengo
I have some doubts on your scheme, it looks at the picture, the red line is equivalent to a knot, as in the second figure. Does it seem a system of transmission with one wire, but in direct current as it can work ?
Verifies well, because it seems an error, if you are able send us a vertical picture of the circuit.
Best regards
Adriano
@abassign
That puzzled me too as it would be shorting out the coil. I think it is an error.
@all
I think if it was rewired as shown in the altered schematic I made it would work.
4Tesla
<removed>
Quote from: plengo on December 04, 2007, 11:20:37 PM
@ 4Tesla
you're right. I checked the lab. I removed the lab. I caged it inside an aluminum container connected to ground and the light goes on. I will make another video showing that (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2lNNOZ-y78). I simply can not kill the battery. I dont have another explanation why the LED goes lit. I connected now 3 9v NIMH bats to see how I can scale this thing and it worked. Now I have more current .04 milliamp and 1.7+volts. It is amazing. I left it running again today the whole day and it simply does not change it just lights there without even blinking or going down in voltage or current. Simply runs.
I am simplifying the circuit to the point that I think the batteries ARE the most important part of the whole circuit. Somehow the coils and the battery are charging the battery and draining the energy on the LEDs therefore balancing everything.
I also tried inside a cage and still works the same. On my video I show that inside the cage the osciloscope will not see any RF but outside the cage it does shows signs of RF on the circuit although very irrelevant. Magnets do not affect anything. Shorting the Batteries as the thing runs will have no long term effect. It restores itself up to the same point that it was.
Replacing the Battery with any kind of Capacitors will not work.
Fausto.
ps: I am sorry for bringing this experiment of mine here. It is not my intention to deviate from the Micro TPU it is that the output goal seams to be pretty similiar: running a LED for as long as one wants. I think my approach is proving itself to be the most amazing and durable. Can someone try that too?
Photo explanation:
B1 = is the 9v NIMH dead battery. You can buy one, short it for days and connect to the circuit.
The resistor can be any value as long as allows the amp meter to be inside its range.
My amp meter is a 1 milliamp range.
D2 and D3 are there just to see if voltage is still enough to go through the LEDs after having some load going through D1 and Resistor.
L1 is a hand made coil with 1500 turns bifilar with 23 and 18 awg (from an Bedini SSG project).
L2 is a relay that I am using only the trigger coil. It affects the final voltage somehow.
The "Not connected" part of the circuit was where I had the second part of another experiment where I would cause the B1 battery to be charged.
That's it. The LED will go lit for a long time (4 days now).
@ Plengo
Thank you for sharing this with us here. It is not a problem.
Please redraw your circuit and repost. Also, a photograph of your circuit, please. There is agreement that the other one is in error. Please confirm this.
4 days run time with one LED, not blinking, with a "dead" battery seems impressive. Let it continue to run!
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
@all,
thank you guys for checking this stuff out. I did post the wrong pic at the beginning. I made a second circuit and was copying from the old "lab". Too many wires ;D.
The new pic should clarify the schematic and you all were right I was shorting things. The idea of one of the LED with a meter is to see If it is a real current under a load (resistor) and still keep the voltage necessary to activate the other LEDs. In one of my earlier designs I had about 10 LED in parallel and they were all lit. This design is the minimum I've got and still runs. It is still running non-stop since I started posting.
@acerzw
replacing the bats for capacitor, as I stated before, will not work. The magnet wire is enameld.
The reason I still left the coils was when measuring with the osciloscope I notice that the voltage cross the LEDs would be higher with them there. I know, nothing here makes sence. It is not only the batteries it is the whole thing.
Fausto.
ps: in this picture I by mistake disconnected the L2.
Deep down inside I always knew the battery was a source of power, but this just totaly nails itÃ, ....Ã, LOLÃ, :D
I'm just having fun plengo.....Ã, good work man, keep it up !!
I have these alkaline 9V batteries and they just don't want to die. I short them out and then they spring back up to 6.5 volts or so. It's all about chemistry here.
EM
Hey EMdevices, you could be right, BUT how can it be. Try it yourself, kill some batteries, let them shorted for a few days and try it. They will comeback to live. I notice that with the coils it comes back faster.
I am also LOL. This is at the least very fun!!!!
Fausto.
@btentzer
I am in the proces of changing the circuit diagram and testing other set-ups while I wait for my new toroids. I actually want to recreate Erfinders circuit but with transistors, something I wanted to do for a long time but did not have the EE savvy. Now that my feet are wet, the water is fine and I am seeing so many new ways.
Since my present torroid quality is very bad, any circuit changes that make a difference are seen right away, much more then if my set-up ran as long as btentzers. So actually having a bad coil is good if you want to see effects of changes in the circuit mods.
Guys, if you can, try to double the trigger winding on your current set-up and see if this is better. You can also try with less and this will give you the ranges.
Added
@plengo
It is possible that a good dead battery will always have some charge because of the chemical reactions inside the battery will still be active. Once the chemicals inside the battery lose their total activity and the battery is really deadsville, maybe this will stop. Tyr freezing one. But still a good find. Now I have to find 1 million dead batteries to run my car. Just jokin or course. lol
What we need here is the time honored EGs Principle !!Ã, Ã, LOLÃ, :D
(or is that splitting the Negative LOL)
@wattsup
I will try the fronzen bat. You're right I even started already looking for prices of batchs of 1000 9v batteries. If they never died I could run my computer ;D
Why would a frozen bat kill it?
What made me have courage to post here for such a stupid circuit (it makes me look really beginner here :-[) it is the fact that that reminent of energy in batteries would even be possible. Another thing is the fact that the voltage and the current does not change a bit even after running for days. That' is strange, it should, even being so small power, still run down with time which is not happening. Figures.
Fausto.
Quote from: EMdevices on December 05, 2007, 11:33:10 AM
What we need here is the time honored EGs Principle !! LOL :D
(or is that splitting the Negative LOL)
LOL, LOL, LOL. Oh man. Thank you. That one made my day!
Fausto. ;D ;D ;D
Fausto, there was another cirucit posted by Stefan early on in this tread, the "jewl light" or something like that. It uses a blocking oscillator to suck more and more power out of a dead battery and build up the voltage a little higher, but just hooking up an LED, which draws very little power after all, seems to be even better, if we're going to use semiconductors after all. I would just let that thing run of years, see how long it takes.
EM
Fausto, so you're saying the coils and the diode bridge make a difference? Nice! You could be picking up some EM fields there, low ones too. As in 60 Hz from the lighting. On an open loop of wire in my room I get 10 to 15 volts sometimes. You might want to check into that.
EM
Watch this guy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNeshiY4ixI&feature=related. At least I am not that craizy :P
I am using real batteries he is using Rocks.
Fausto. LOL
@EMdevices,
cool I will search for the "jewl light" (Stefan? can you show me where maybe?).
I will also try this device at other places in and out of the house inside its cage. Lets see. But if you righ about the "jewl" thing than it may be the answer.
Fausto.
it is called joule thief not jewl light ;D
and it is about 50% efficient, or less...
Quote from: plengo on December 05, 2007, 11:58:23 AM
@EMdevices,
cool I will search for the "jewl light" (Stefan? can you show me where maybe?).
I will also try this device at other places in and out of the house inside its cage. Lets see. But if you righ about the "jewl" thing than it may be the answer.
Fausto.
For an accurate test you might short out the battery before each test.
4Tesla
Quote from: 4Tesla on December 05, 2007, 04:14:43 PM
Quote from: plengo on December 05, 2007, 11:58:23 AM
@EMdevices,
cool I will search for the "jewl light" (Stefan? can you show me where maybe?).
I will also try this device at other places in and out of the house inside its cage. Lets see. But if you righ about the "jewl" thing than it may be the answer.
Fausto.
For an accurate test you might short out the battery before each test.
4Tesla
@all,
I suggest plengo start a new thread on this.
Cheers, sanmankl
Quote from: plengo on December 05, 2007, 11:55:15 AM
Watch this guy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNeshiY4ixI&feature=related. At least I am not that craizy :P
I am using real batteries he is using Rocks.
Fausto. LOL
Hi,
It is a rock but not your "garden variety" rock....:-)
Cheers, sanmankl
@sanmankl
actually it is. There is another video where he shows how he does it. He walks around the block, grab some rocks, grinds them, cook them, put on a container and voila, a new battery is created.
Fausto.
Seems more chemical than zero point. I don't care if he claims that they have exploded from the "massive" power. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
Of course, a few wild claims like this and you will end up as a consultant for the history channel as an "expert" in the field.
This topic has nothing do to with the TPU. needs to be moved elsewhere.
Hi guys,
here is a picture that might be something to think about hooking your little torroids to .....and see how and if it is possible to get the little back and forth torroid to make a racetrack in two single directions top and bottom....Diodes ?
it looks a bit like the first unit that has no mass electronics.
Beautifull graphics Lindsay,Ã, I love it!!!
Here's a TPU related simulation to get you all excited.Ã, Ã, LOL :)Ã,Â
(click on it and it will animate)
EM
well, i'm missing alot in that coilddd image....
@ Manix : what program did you use to draw the coil setup ?
Thanks EM!
Marco, all the middle is missing!
we would need to work out exactly how to wire this it could be interesting
just trying to get that first one sorted....ignoring 3 at all times
I use lightwave
these images aren't going to take us anywhere.....we really need to make them out of metal...
@Mannix,
The open unit coils contains two wires each segment your drawing only shows one.
Also let us not forget that there may exist thin magwire around them all.
M.
this 1
ah yes that one...
that to me is a modified replication of a general electric defyoke.
i bet he even took the round coil on top off from an old rca picture tube.
it will be verry hard to replicate that one...
if you are intrested,i heve the schematics of the GE company on how they were driven back in the days.
if you want my opinion, the last one is the most easy one to do.
that is afterall the one he showed us after 400 builds so i guess they sure had some main guide
lines by then.
M.
@mannix
what program did you use to draw the toroid coils. very nice :)
@all
Sorry for posting this second time. The fist time no one commented on it ... and I ( maybe mistakenly ... :-\ ) think that it has high relevance to the common effort of build the TPU ...
"Energy Sucking Antenna" http://amasci.com/tesla/tesceive.html ( the extraction of energy referred there is in SLF/ULF/VLF/LF range where the size of the antenna is A LOT smaller than the wavelength of the signal - as the signal, apparently, can be man/natural made oscillation )
I can see some correlation with SM's words ( hopefully this is not my imagination ) and although it seems to operates on different principle ( Tesla magnifying transmitter ) it seems that a lot can be learned about energy collecting antennas ...
From the page:
"If we use a metal loop-antenna instead of a metal capacitor plate, then the current in the loop can perform a similar task as the voltage on the plate in figure 3: the oscillating current should grow huge and surround the coil with an intense, volume-filling AC magnetic. If the phase is correct, this b-field should "suck energy" from the transmitter (or from the local b-fields of the incoming electromagnetic waves.) Keep in mind that all this applies to SMALL ANTENNAS. If your wavelength is 150MHz and your antenna is 1 meter across, then "energy sucking antennas" cannot be used to improve reception. The idea applies to the longwave bands, to long wire antennas, and to VLF power transmission using the Earth-ionosphere Schumann resonant cavity."
Do not forget ... "THE SEA OF ENERGY IN WHICH THE EARTH FLOATS"
... the knowledge of the coils ...
Best
<removed>
@ep.
welcome aboard!!
have you concidered the other part of the partial quote, "and how they interact!" just a thought. yea all this was covered in the initial thread. maybe it is time to revisit.
lol
sam
2
Quote from: acerzw on December 07, 2007, 12:10:53 AM
@Marco, Mannix
This is the Micro-TPU thread, you are going off topic, posts regarding the full size TPU would be better posted on the TPU General Discussion Thread or one of the other threads dedicated to it...
@epwpixieq-1
The Transmit to Receive documents were posted ages ago on the Lord of the Rings Thread...
Acerzw
This is what you might do with your micro torriod so that you might convert a to and fro to a spin...GET IT?
its the middle bit.....of most of the units
Relevant?.absolutely..... did you think these little things would run by themsleves going back and forth?
we already know a little bit about conventional transformers.
How's your build going?
thought not
[quote
Relevant?.absolutely..... did you think these little things would run by themsleves going back and forth?
we already know a little bit about conventional transformers.
[/quote]
in fact mannix im sure they will lol
run by them selfs if you go about it the right way!!
ist
OK, everyone back to work. lol
But before we do, here is some eye candy. Incredible video of a femtasecond pulse photon captured on film. That's fast. 10-15
The article is here...
http://www.laserfocusworld.com/display_article/313465/12/none/none/TECHN/Japanese-scientists-record-3-D-movie-of-femtosecond-pulse-propagation-(WATCH-VIDEO
The video is here.
http://mfile.akamai.com/24605/wmv/pennwell.download.akamai.com/24605//vod/lfw/Kubota_femtopulse_512K_Stream.asx
Wiki What's a femtosecond. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultrashort_pulse
Light is energy.
@btentzer
Still waiting to get my other ferrites. But I have been experimenting with adding a small 3vdc relay dpdt. Now to marry it with the trans. This is totally freaky that I'm doing this shit. Maybe the relay will permit some more flyback into the cap.
@hakware
Mannix said his software is Lightwave 3D (LW3D). http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/
@EM and @Mannix
Nice designs. Looks like everyone is using LW3D as otto has also shown such a design and others too like Mark. Mannix, can you add your actual Lightwave file to your post (probably in ZIP) so some can use it as a learning tool. Just got LW3D and it looks really complicated.
@All
Have any of you Mini TPU builders tried with a different trigger coil (double length or half the current length)? See the differences?.
Hello all,
@wattsup
I only showed - posted this drawing nothing else. Its not mine.
Otto
Lightwave 3D (LW3D) $900 :o
:)
4Tesla
Has anyone bought anything from the site below? I still haven't gotten my toroids.. starting to get frustrated with this company. I sent them an e-mail and no reply.. I guess I try calling them next. >:( >:(
4Tesla
Edit: I checked their contact info and they are in RI and I am in WA.. ground shipping and I-5 closed for a few days from flooding.. I'll give them a few more days, probably Tuesday, before I call.
Quote from: 4Tesla on November 26, 2007, 07:45:46 PM
I bought 2 of the FT114-77 1.14" ferrite toroids, 1 of the FT140-77 1.4" ferrite toroids, and 1 of the T106-26 1.06" iron toroids.
Site: http://www.oselectronics.com/ose_p88.htm
Hello All,
I am still here! ;) I have run experiments every night, but to no avail. Still stuck at 39 minutes.
Tonight I over wrapped each half of the toroid with a second set of control wires, and hooked them up mobius, but using diodes to make the racetrack. Idea is a spin off of Mannix's graphic and thoughts.
Induction kick starts the racetrack and around it goes, inducing more current into the wrapping under it, and thus it continues...(in my head anyway! LOL ;D) If it doesn't work, it should! LOL
I will let you know if anything comes of it. It took a while to set up.
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
EDIT:
Okay, I have a brain tease for some bright person out there...
My second set of control wires, wrapped over the other wires, and connected with mobius and diodes. If I connect one diode opposite direction (Where it kills the race track) the LED will not light at all! Now remember, none of these wires are connected to the circuit at all in this experiment. Why is that? What is your answer?? ???
Hi Bruce,
Is there a diagram? Perhaps the diode in this direction is allowing the isolated coil to act as a "shorted loop" and absorbs all the energy? If the diode is reversed it does not conduct, because perhaps the signal is pulsed DC not AC and has only one direction?!
D.
@btentzer
I think CTG Labs is right. I saw the same thing with my CBC as mobius just makes a short. You have x volts coming in but most is consumed by the mobius looping leaving not enough for the led. Did you try increasing the applied voltage but put a resistor before the led if you do this since it will blow.
I don't think mobius is useful here since it will cancel the field especially is the winds are one on top of the other. You need the field to impart magnetism through the ferrite, back and forth to the trigger.
Mannixs' design is somewhat mobius but the coils are not over each other. This may have a different effect.
I just got myself one good sized transformer and will try this on my Mini TPU circuit. Just by pulsing 3 volts DC on the 110volts primary and releasing sends sparks out about 2 inches from the spark point. Never saw that with the regular toroid. This transformer has a lot of mass and I want to see how it will react to the circuit. Will let you know.
Bruce,
Have you tried 2 cores like in the graphic?
4Tesla
@plengo
Have you done anymore testing with you rechargeable battery circuit?
4Tesla
Hey guys,
No I haven't tried this on two separate cores yet. That will be for another day.
I had my circuit, as shown in the schematic several posts back, except I wound over the bottom windings with two top windings. Each winding having two ends. I then hooked the ends, crossing in the middle with two IN002 diodes. NONE of the new winding wires were attached anywhere on the circuit. Circuit runs fine, but no extra time gained. I reversed one of the diodes, and the LED would not light. I then removed the diode, and the LED starts to blink, without the cap needing to be recharged. Somehow, the second windings stopped the flow of current in the windings underneath.
On a side note, my son's light sabre broke beyond repair this morning. I slid out the 21 LED stack and plugged it into the circuit, ;D all 21 blinked away, with no power hookup. I went to recharge the system and time it and when I touched my leads to the battery, some of the LED's glowed then smoked. Yet one LED is fine. Any thoughts on why a stack of 21 would possibly have some fry when 9volt is touched?
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
Too much current.. I isolate the cap from the circuit when I recharge it.
4Tesla
You need at least 420 ohm resistor 1/4 watt to limit the current to the LEDs . So is the LED a visual aid to let you see it's running or is it running without the LED and you don't know it .
Hi Mike,
There is a 1 Mohm resistor to limit the current, already.
The 1M resistor is for the RC part of the circuit and isn't a current limiting resistor.
4Tesla
mmmm tapping finger on laptop .....what was the organial power source in the light sabber . and as i understand that you hooked it to a 9 volt battery ..... I think the way you have it hooked up is limiting the transistor not the LED
Quote from: Motorcoach1 on December 08, 2007, 07:59:40 PM
mmmm tapping finger on laptop .....what was the organial power source in the light sabber . and as i understand that you hooked it to a 9 volt battery ..... I think the way you have it hooked up is limiting the transistor not the LED
Three AA batteries, powering 21 LED's wired in parallel. (actually stacked and soldered. It is pretty cool.)
@4Tesla
thanks for asking. It let it ran the 7 or more days. The LED was lit. Voltage accross the it was 1.6+ and current was .2ma. I concluded that the battery is the main factor. It will hold a 1 volt no matter what one do to it (despite someone destroys it with fire or something like that).
On my second version I tried if it could stack up in quantity so that I could have, lets say, 3 bats with 1 volt either so I should have a constant voltage of at least 3 volts plus the current. I also tried some in parallel and they also stack up pretty good. SO, now I am trying many in series and in parallel and they produce a very very steady voltage and current and it does not matter what I do with this babies.
Now, my next step it to reproduce the 4 tesla switch with this setup and see If I can run a bigger load with less batteries. I think there is something here. Is it worthy to open a new thread just for this? I posted some videos at youtube and another guys emailed me saying he did pretty much the same experiment and He also had his LED running for more than a week (no longer because, like me, he got tired and dismantled the thing to go furher). This guys was using a 4 testa swtich and thats where some ideas came from.
I bought some 25 more of this NIMH to see how much can I stack and may be use them as a input source for my Bedini SSG to charge real bigger batteries to run real big things!!!
Can someone come up with a circuit that will pulse at a certain choosen frequency 90/10% duty cycle but at each pulse really switch 4 "relays"? and this has to run at about 20ma max 3v max.
BTW, resting those "killed/dead" batteries will recharge them back to a 3+volts no matter what. Real usable energy. I can see this approach to run this mini TPU forever!!!
Fausto.
@ btentzer:
3 AA bats have 4.5 vdc and you put 9 vdc into the LEDs. This might explain why they went poof. there is also probably some circuitry involved that might limit power to the LEDs in the light saber configuration. I was testing one of my bright LEDs from my earth battery experiments (see topic) and yes, I used a 9 volt bat. Guess what? I fried it!!!! It was a shame as it was the brightest one I had. (sigh) I am not an electronics wiz but my guess is that was too much for them.
Bill
Hi Bill,
I had thought of that, but the only problem with that, is this same 9 volt has no problem with 1 LED, or 2, or 8 (8 is the most I have tried.) But give it a stack of 21, and it blinked for a while, but I was not timing it, and had removed a blinking LED to plug in the stack. Touched the 9 volt and POOF! LOL
@ All
Right now I have hooked two leads of my second set of control coils to an earphone. Everytime, the LED lights, you can hear the audible click. It is like an electronic heartbeat. Just a weird thing I wanted to try. I told the wife it was a toroid stethescope! LOL ;D Woman, they will believe anything! ;)
Right now I am testing with it.
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
@btentzer
LOL :)
@plengo
I recommend using a 555 timer IC for your DC pulse or use this simple circuit and tap off the collector of the transistor:
http://wild-bohemian.com/electronics/flasher.html
4Tesla
Quote from: btentzer on December 08, 2007, 03:32:08 PM
Hey guys,
No I haven't tried this on two separate cores yet. That will be for another day.
I had my circuit, as shown in the schematic several posts back, except I wound over the bottom windings with two top windings. Each winding having two ends. I then hooked the ends, crossing in the middle with two IN002 diodes. NONE of the new winding wires were attached anywhere on the circuit. Circuit runs fine, but no extra time gained. I reversed one of the diodes, and the LED would not light. I then removed the diode, and the LED starts to blink, without the cap needing to be recharged. Somehow, the second windings stopped the flow of current in the windings underneath.
On a side note, my son's light sabre broke beyond repair this morning. I slid out the 21 LED stack and plugged it into the circuit, ;D all 21 blinked away, with no power hookup. I went to recharge the system and time it and when I touched my leads to the battery, some of the LED's glowed then smoked. Yet one LED is fine. Any thoughts on why a stack of 21 would possibly have some fry when 9volt is touched?
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
@Bruce,
Which schematic are you referring to? There's a few running around. Can you give me the link or repost?
I'm also like you, stuck at 33m (best time, with an all CU coil). What kind of mod did you do?
Thanks and happy holidays. sanmankl
@ Sanmankl
Here is my latest schematic update.
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
@plengo
I made the following circuit on a simulator based on the circuit linked in my previous post. It works in the simulator, but didn't build the circuit on my breadboard to test it.
To your specs that you need.. 3v in, 2.7v out, and 18.3mA with a duty cycle 90/10 (90 on / 10 off).. to switch to 10/90 (10 on / 90 off), swap the 1k and 10k resistors and for 50/50 use two 10k resistors. To change the frequency change the size of the caps (both same size).
4Tesla
Two Transistor Oscillator
Edit: Don't need the diodes
Quote from: btentzer on December 09, 2007, 01:23:17 AM
@ Sanmankl
Here is my latest schematic update.
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
@ Bruce,
Thanks. I'll give your circuit a go. See if I can do more....?
Cheers, sanmankl
@4Tesla
what software are you using for the simulator?
Fausto.
@plengo
The diodes aren't needed in that circuit... cleaner output. Increase collector resistor value to 220 ohms to keep under 20mA. Here are the links to the free schematic and SPICE simulator software that I am using.
I found this free software for making schematics:
http://www.expresspcb.com/
I found this free SPICE simulator:
http://www.analog.com/en/content/0,2886,0%255F1206%255F162825%255F0,00.html?ref=ASC1285
4Tesla
@ Sanmankl
I forgot to add the diode on the negative side of the 1.5 uf cap. It is facing the negative. Weird I know, but it added time. ;) I posted some time ago about it and forgot to update it to the circuit.
@ All
I am out of town for a short bit, and then I will be back experimenting. I have some more experiments to run with my two control wires still. After that I will tie in a mini 1-3volt motor I found today. I will glue a magnet on the shaft and attempt to spin that in the center of the toroid while the LED blinks, with no battery hooked up, just used to kick start. Also, I will be purchasing a small solar cell, and place this above the LED's and then tie that back into the starting position. It should make for some fun experimenting if nothing else! ;D
Once I have finished with all of the above, I will unwrap my control wires from the toroid, and wrap two additional toroids in the configuration that Mannix gave. The only difference I will make is that the wrapping will be bifilar, and I will but some other type of wire around the circumference, underneath. (You never know, eh? LOL)
I still say that SM's secret is in the very specific frequencies and their intersection. IMHO. There is more than that, but that with tubes, is really the starting place. But for my non EE self, this is fun, and educational.
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
Bruce,
Have a safe trip and talk to you when you get back.
4Tesla
@btentzer
Have a good trip.
@4tesla
Did you get any word form your parts supplier. I ordered some stuff there also a week ago and still no news. Anyways, they did not touch my credit card yet, so I guess they will when they ship my order.
@Bruce,
Thanks for the diode update. I haven't got round to duplicate your setup yet but will soon enough. Have a safe trip.
So far, my best times based somewhat on EM's circuit (RC cap changed to 200nF, LED to negative) is 34m 50s.
Seems like there's still a way to get longer run if the torriod size/type-wire size/type gets into proper "harmony"?
My latest is a torriod core of about 40mm size, Fe (black in colour) with AWG#20 wire. I'm in a way lucky. I can walk into one of my regular electronic component shop and pick various size torriods for cheap. Paid something like USD1 for the 40mm Fe ring.
Cheers, cp
@wattsup
Not yet.. I'm going to call tomorrow and see what the status is.. I never bought anything from this company before.. I found them through Google.. I hope they are real.
4Tesla
@plengo
I built the two transistor oscillator circuit.. It works.
4Tesla
Hey guys,
Thank all of you for the traveling wishes.
I am back at home and at the bench. First experiment was a bust, with the mini motor. It ran fine while the 9volt was connected, but died the moment the leads were released. So that is a no go, no way. Just not enough current available. I had tied it into the same location as my LED.
Right now I am testing a LC setup with the two control wires. I want to try this set up again, using only one turn of each wire, a bit larger diameter wire, for less resistance. ;)
I also picked up my mini solar cell today. That will be a fun future test also!
I will keep you posted if (when) something interesting develops.
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
@ btentzer >Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?tt=url&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fdigilander.libero.it%2Faltraenergia%2Fmarinov.html&lp=it_en&.intl=us&fr=b1ie7Ã, you may find this arcive interesting , It seems to have been lost but someone posted it on the net I would make a copy before it's gone again. The date is interesting too !!
Quote from: 4Tesla on December 11, 2007, 12:21:53 AM
@wattsup
Not yet.. I'm going to call tomorrow and see what the status is.. I never bought anything from this company before.. I found them through Google.. I hope they are real.
4Tesla
Didn't call in time.. they close at 4pm EST and I'm in the PST zone, so I have to call before 1pm.. I saw on their site that it can take up to 15 days before they ship.. plus shipping time.. up to three weeks to get the parts.. only two weeks for me so far.. If I remember, I'll try to call before 1pm tomorrow.
4Tesla
I don't have my toroids yet.. but have been playing with LED circuits and just verified that running LEDs in series takes less current to run.. each time I add another LED it takes 2-4 less mA to run the circuit.. I have reduced the current by 10mA by just adding more LEDs in series.. it doesn't seem to effect the brightness of the LEDs. I found that running the LEDs in parallel doesn't reduce the circuit current. I would have thought since you are lighting more LEDs that the circuit current would go up and not down. Does anyone know why it goes down? Something to do with the diode voltage drop?
Thanks,
4Tesla
Quote from: 4Tesla on December 11, 2007, 10:13:07 PM
I don't have my toroids yet.. but have been playing with LED circuits and just verified that running LEDs in series takes less current to run.. each time I add another LED it takes 2-4 less mA to run the circuit.. I have reduced the current by 10mA by just adding more LEDs in series.. it doesn't seem to effect the brightness of the LEDs. I found that running the LEDs in parallel doesn't reduce the circuit current. I would have thought since you are lighting more LEDs that the circuit current would go up and not down. Does anyone know why it goes down? Something to do with the diode voltage drop?
Thanks,
4Tesla
@ 4Tesla
Thanks for that info. I now have placed four of my LED's in series. One blue, one red and two yellow. I will eventually have all blue, rated 2600 mcd in brightness.
@ Sanmankl
I have an interesting experiment going on right now, last one of the night. I realized I had made an error in how I had the diode I had mentioned to you, hooked up on the board. Tested it hooked properly into the board and the circuit did not work at all.
So I wondered why I had gained time when I had improperly connected it to the board. Then I realized it was acting as a resistor there. So I removed it from the circuit and placed a resistor in it's place.
ALL of the 4 LED's are flashing about
three times brighter. I also have the two control wires hooked very different. (each set of leads simply goes to a small ceramic cap) So, over the next several nights, I will go through my arsenal of resistors and see which one gives the best time. If none, I will remove it and put it back the way it was.
Then I will unwind these control wires, and rewind, using one turn connected to itself, with unshielded silver plated wire, and going to a cap. I will do this twice like tuning forks. ;D So, no lack of experiments here for the next several days.
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
Bruce,
Your welcome.. did that increase run time?
Thanks,
4Tesla
Quote from: btentzer on December 12, 2007, 12:09:04 AM
Quote from: 4Tesla on December 11, 2007, 10:13:07 PM
I don't have my toroids yet.. but have been playing with LED circuits and just verified that running LEDs in series takes less current to run.. each time I add another LED it takes 2-4 less mA to run the circuit.. I have reduced the current by 10mA by just adding more LEDs in series.. it doesn't seem to effect the brightness of the LEDs. I found that running the LEDs in parallel doesn't reduce the circuit current. I would have thought since you are lighting more LEDs that the circuit current would go up and not down. Does anyone know why it goes down? Something to do with the diode voltage drop?
Thanks,
4Tesla
@ 4Tesla
Thanks for that info. I now have placed four of my LED's in series. One blue, one red and two yellow. I will eventually have all blue, rated 2600 mcd in brightness.
@ Sanmankl
I have an interesting experiment going on right now, last one of the night. I realized I had made an error in how I had the diode I had mentioned to you, hooked up on the board. Tested it hooked properly into the board and the circuit did not work at all.
So I wondered why I had gained time when I had improperly connected it to the board. Then I realized it was acting as a resistor there. So I removed it from the circuit and placed a resistor in it's place.
ALL of the 4 LED's are flashing about three times brighter. I also have the two control wires hooked very different. (each set of leads simply goes to a small ceramic cap) So, over the next several nights, I will go through my arsenal of resistors and see which one gives the best time. If none, I will remove it and put it back the way it was.
Then I will unwind these control wires, and rewind, using one turn connected to itself, with unshielded silver plated wire, and going to a cap. I will do this twice like tuning forks. ;D So, no lack of experiments here for the next several days.
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
@Bruce,
This is interesting development indeed. I would need to read this post carefully (not that your description is bad but English is my second language) so that I really understand what you are trying to say.
Thanks. sanmankl
@plengo
I took a 9 volt battery that had 8.45 volts on it. Connected it to a 110 volt light bulb for two days. No, the bulb did not light. With the load on, the voltage went down to 0.008 and stayed there. When I remove the bulb, the voltage jumped to 0.346 volts and started slowly going up in .001 increments. Left it for a day and a half. Checked the voltage just now, 3.207 volts steady. lol
Zinc and carbon. I wonder if the LTPU wall material could be made of such a mix of material. SM already said it once, "if this was a battery, it would be a very big battery".
@EEers
If any EEer on the board can go through a step-by-step explanation of how EMs original circuit works, especially when the transistor base is activated and what actually happens in that instance. In layman terms. No reversed bias lingo. lol
@ 4Tesla
I am not sure. It was very late last night when I found this. Tonight I will begin proper testing and see if there is any merit to it
@ Sanmankl
Here is my circuit as of last night. I just need to figure out a) what size resistor at the question mark will increase my time, or b) what resistance value was my diode I had there giving that increased my run time?
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
@wattsup
I know. If you connect to an LED it will keep it on for days and days. Mine was on for more the a week. Very interesting and when connected to the LED it will stop at 1.605v and run .1ma current. Thats why I was saying I could not "kill" that battery no matter what.
Now, I experimenting with another circuit (4 tesla switch) and I ran into something even more interesting. I was able last night to have 2 batteries connected, one at 8.5v and the other one was "dead" (like 2 or 3 volts - the voltage that comes back to) and I let it run the circuit for the whole night. Results were impressive. The dead battery is now 7v and the source battery is STILL the same 8.5v no change. And in this circuit there is an LED in series with ampmeter and another series of LEDs in parallel also running.
Tonight I will try an experimenting replacing the batteries with Caps. Here why I am posting this: The circuit is very similiar to what this mini-TPU is also but I think the secret is in this 4 tesla circuit ( or at least part of it - the proof of concept) and if we could have 2 caps one charging the other and running the load there we go we have the mini-TPU running forever!!!
As soon as I come home I will prepare the schematics and post it and where is the source of info for the 4 tesla switch proof of concept that i am working on.
Fausto.
Quote from: plengo on December 12, 2007, 01:49:08 PM
Now, I experimenting with another circuit (4 tesla switch) and I ran into something even more interesting. I was able last night to have 2 batteries connected, one at 8.5v and the other one was "dead" (like 2 or 3 volts - the voltage that comes back to) and I let it run the circuit for the whole night. Results were impressive. The dead battery is now 7v and the source battery is STILL the same 8.5v no change. And in this circuit there is an LED in series with ampmeter and another series of LEDs in parallel also running.
Tonight I will try an experimenting replacing the batteries with Caps. Here why I am posting this: The circuit is very similiar to what this mini-TPU is also but I think the secret is in this 4 tesla circuit ( or at least part of it - the proof of concept) and if we could have 2 caps one charging the other and running the load there we go we have the mini-TPU running forever!!!
As soon as I come home I will prepare the schematics and post it and where is the source of info for the 4 tesla switch proof of concept that i am working on.
Fausto.
@ Fausto
Now that sounds like a brilliant idea. I look forward to seeing the schematic. If you could peek up at my circuit and suggest where and how to add that second capacitor, that would be great!
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
Quote from: btentzer on December 12, 2007, 07:51:32 AM
@ 4Tesla
I am not sure. It was very late last night when I found this. Tonight I will begin proper testing and see if there is any merit to it
@ Sanmankl
Here is my circuit as of last night. I just need to figure out a) what size resistor at the question mark will increase my time, or b) what resistance value was my diode I had there giving that increased my run time?
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
Bruce,
When you hookup a diode in reverse it can act as a varicap depending on the reverse bias, so you will have resistance and capacitance as well depending.
@plengo
Please also post just the 4 Tesla circuit you're using... is this one of N. Tesla's circuits or one I posted? Confused because of my user name.
Thanks,
4Tesla
Quote from: starcruiser on December 12, 2007, 05:25:45 PM
Bruce,
When you hookup a diode in reverse it can act as a varicap depending on the reverse bias, so you will have resistance and capacitance as well depending.
@ starcruiser
What I actually did was place the diode in the same line on the bread board as the power. So the power kept flowing, right under it. A novice's mistake! ;) LOL
@ All
Testing resistors and looking for results. I love Plengo's idea. We need a way to add that idea to this circuit.
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
@btentzer
Regarding your barium ferrite coil (antenna) here is a very nice page that may provide some great ideas.
http://www.bentongue.com/xtalset/19mstry/19mstry.html
hi guys,
I made some changes to my setup:
1. changed yellow leds for blue ones (now i get much brighter light)
2. connected circuit to a little dc motor with gear transmission and crank which acts as a generator
so i don't use battery to charge cap any more :) I just turn handle few times and it starts blinking :D
cheers,
s.
Quote from: btentzer on December 12, 2007, 08:38:23 PM
Quote from: starcruiser on December 12, 2007, 05:25:45 PM
Bruce,
When you hookup a diode in reverse it can act as a varicap depending on the reverse bias, so you will have resistance and capacitance as well depending.
@ starcruiser
What I actually did was place the diode in the same line on the bread board as the power. So the power kept flowing, right under it. A novice's mistake! ;) LOL
@ All
Testing resistors and looking for results. I love Plengo's idea. We need a way to add that idea to this circuit.
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
That will do it :D
I have posted in youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk5VB2g5vOk) another video showing the proof of concept from Tesla 4 switch battery. I think it is very similiar to what this mini-TPU is. If you look at the picture you will notice the coil at the base of the transistor and its emitor.
I left this baby running for over 24 hours now. The starting voltage of the battery was 6.16v. The brightness of the LEDs are 3/4 of its full potential (at least in my perception). If I disconnect the battery it will show a voltage of 6.30v and after one minute it will go to 7+volts.
I think this switch from Tesla/Kromrey really works. Interesting that trying to see the signal on the base of the transistor on an osciloscope seams to be very difficult. Very, very faint signal.
I will also later test the input/output using my new toys: Power Analyser PRO from West Mountain Radio (http://www.westmountainradio.com/Whattmeter.htm) and the Cmputerized Battery Analyser (http://www.westmountainradio.com/CBA_ham.htm). Them I want to see of this will demonstrate OU or not.
Now, here is the resemblance to mini-TPU: look at the transistor in my diagram and what you guys have on the toroid! If we could somehow use a small battery or something similiar it may work. Here is the bad thing: changing the battery with a Cap did not work. Something about the variable impedance or the battery that makes it work!!!
Fausto.
ps: the second battery on the right is NOT connected. It is there just to show the complete "should be" setup.
ps2: photo edited to show correct PNP transistor.
@plengo
@scorpio
no it is not a mistake. They ARE shorted. The battery on the right is NOT connected. I draw it to show how the original schematics (that you can see on the video or here http://www.esmhome.org/library/john-bedini/report_on_4_battery_switch.pdf (goto page 11) (also on another post http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3160.msg46339) is designed.
Simply I removed the second battery and I am using the source battery as the destination battery too. It is just a proof of concept of the whole 4 tesla switch design.
And the reason for the LEDs on the right and the resistor is because by working on it I came up with this impedance matching (at least somehow - monkey science ;D) would allow the battery to charge itself up.
Fausto.
@Plengo,
It seems you are doing very good work!
What happens if you disconnect the transistor base? The reason for my question is:
1. Like said before a diode can act as a varactor under certain circumstances.
2. No base connection or next to nothing on the base may allow NRO action (negative resistance oscillator)
Thanks,
bep
http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/oddosc.html
check this out
@BEP
thanks.
QuoteWhat happens if you disconnect the transistor base?
No current, no light and no drop in voltage or increase on the battery.
I tested today under a power load computerized device and interesting is that it showed that frequently there is an opposite current in order of .1ma returning to the battery. I would say about once per second.
Fausto.
@plengo
It is very interest and strange. I try build this...
scorpio
@plengo: did you already try to replace the battery by a charged cap? does it work "forever"?
@Silvije: had a look on your page. what do you mean by: "once started will continue oscillating indefinitely." I asume you did not disconnect the 3.5V power supply. Only the input pulses, didn't you? thanks...
@Joh70
Replacing the battery with a Cap will NOT work. You can put a "dead" battery and it will raise in voltage on this device. The battery has a varying resistance that changes as the voltage increases and the device oscilates. The cap will not do that so it will just discharge to the regular conventional theories of Cap and Resistors.
Thats why I replaced the second battery on the right of the diagram with a short so that the battery source on the left will "react" to a input current whereas a Cap would simply add or subtract from its current charge.
The oscilator presented by Silvije somehow works similiar to my circuit. I tried adding in series to the transitor another NPN or Mosfet and both will, once presented a voltage on the Base/Gate, will oscilate too. But for that to happen it has to be in resonance the whole circuit. You see, my circuits that I present here are not just "bad" circuits they are in fact transformations of original solid engineering designs that I just work on until it works and voila they no longer seams very logical or correct.
Ah, almost forgot (the reason for this one post). This circuit presents some of the characteristics of Radiant energy, why, because as I approach my body/hand to the circuit the voltage across points Vcd will decrease. Approaching into the coil produces no effects. The area around the transistor is where the focal point is the most sensitive. Now, how is that possible with so little voltage and current? And also, I have been running this thing with this same battery for 3 days now and the voltage goes up and down. When it goes up I try different designs than I see that it does not work and the voltage goes down, so I put back with the design that works (in this picture and the previous one) and it goes up again and the cycle repeats.
Fausto
ps: S1 on the picture is a switch that I use to "trigger" the gate and cause the locked oscilation described by Silvije .
ps2: photo edited to show correct PNP transitor. Also works with PNP 3906.
@ plego no problem some folks never get it they just pic at whats not there because they can't e inovative har har har thank you you don't have to tell everything ,,daah that way some onee hass to do some brain farts
@plengo
QuoteI left this baby running for over 24 hours now. The starting voltage of the battery was 6.16v. The brightness of the LEDs are 3/4 of its full potential (at least in my perception). If I disconnect the battery it will show a voltage of 6.30v and after one minute it will go to 7+volts.
When is detaches a 9V battery from the circuit, this it suffers an increase of tension of some tenth of volt. This makes difficult to measure the residual tension of a battery.
What I have not succeeded in understanding is if the tension 6.16V always been constant for 24 hours ?
Best regards
Adriano
Quote from: plengo on December 14, 2007, 11:11:01 PM
The area around the transistor is where the focal point is the most sensitive. Now, how is that possible with so little voltage and current? And also, I have been running this thing with this same battery for 3 days now and the voltage goes up and down. When it goes up I try different designs than I see that it does not work and the voltage goes down, so I put back with the design that works (in this picture and the previous one) and it goes up again and the cycle repeats.
Fausto
@Plengo - "The area around the transistor is where the focal point is the most sensitive. Now, how is that possible with so little voltage and current?"
Is the transistor a FET type?. If so, then this is exactly what one may expect. Anything affected by an electric field can also affect an electric field.
But it is also to be expected to a lesser degree with any transistors. At all frequencies the power of the resonating circuit is still being switched by a very small unshielded package, that is, the transistors. The effects of voltage and current changes are always most pronounced at the point of switching, and is most evident in the arcing that occurs in an extending air gap when switching high voltages with mechanical contact switches.
@Plengo - " When it goes up I try different designs than I see that it does not work and the voltage goes down, so I put back with the design that works"
Have you tried letting the supply battery just keep charging up until it levels out at whatever voltage it may settle on, then use it to drive a resitive load, e'.g. a globe until it is fully discharged again?. Then let it rise and settle into its residual tension after being drained before reconnecting and charging it all the way up to its highest voltage again?
If you could achieve this a number of times, then I think you might be onto something very interesting here!
P.S. Could you post all the specs on the battery?
Cheers from Hoptoad
Quote from: Joh70 on December 14, 2007, 10:50:55 PM
@Silvije: had a look on your page. what do you mean by: "once started will continue oscillating indefinitely." I asume you did not disconnect the 3.5V power supply. Only the input pulses, didn't you? thanks...
this is not my page, I just found it by searching net, and thought it might be interesting...
@Plengo
I am making a your new device, these they are the results for the first two hours of operation:
Number of Test LED: 9 in parallel, tension less 1,6 V, the transformer is torroid with 40 coils + 10 coils.
Time - Volt
10.13 - 7.884
10.19 - 7.955
10.46 - 8.045
...
11.37 - 8.086
11.52 - 8.089
Using a group of 9 LEDs in parallel, that must give the same brightness of the 9 LEDs in test, I have measured an absorption of 7 mA for a reduction of tension of 1,6V.
I have noticed a certain difficulty in to start the system, it is necessary to make a connection with an enough long wire, it seems that these make as trigger for start depart the spike.
From my oscilloscope I notice the spike in 50 Hz Signal. The spike is near 60V, but this measure is not reliable, in how much possible to insert to mass the oscilloscope, is not, otherwise it finishes the phenomenon of oscillation.
I would want to know from @ Plengo if also he has a waveform of this type. The probe is put at transistor base.
@abassign
thank you man. It is good to see that I am not the only craizy guy here. So you are having the same effects that I see Correct? Voltage increases if you leave it on the device.
The pictures are the osciloscope signals that I got from different versions. One probe on the base of the first PNP transistor. Tdiv=5ms. Vdiv=.5.
Concerning another question of yours: my 6.16v was the steady voltage of the battery after 24 hours BEFORE I put on this device than it increase its voltage as time passed.
@hoptoad
I would accept that too (the electric field altered by my body). It is difficult to accept thought because I have not seen this effect on other oscilators that I have built.
I will run some tests on my new load tester toy. Charge the battery and discharge over the load. Actually I am measuring the output of the battery as it runs the system and will measure on the load CPU tester.
@all
concerning specs of the battery: it is a NIMH 9v rechargeble battery.
Fausto.
@plengo,
Thank you for openly sharing your designs with us here in the forum. I think that you are doing a great job. You need not be so critical of your own work; other folks will do this for you. ;)
Quote from: Motorcoach1 on December 15, 2007, 02:07:16 AM
@ plego no problem some folks never get it they just pic at whats not there because they can't e inovative har har har thank you you don't have to tell everything ,,daah that way some onee hass to do some brain farts
I am having no brain farts today. I tried to make your circuit last night and it failed to light the LEDs. So, I hope you do not mind my picking on you but I have two areas that I would like to ask you about.
Is your PNP symbol correct with regard to arrow direction; you are not using an NPN, are you?
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.overunity.com%2Findex.php%3Faction%3Ddlattach%3Btopic%3D7.0%3Battach%3D15347%3Bimage&hash=f72b3f5f71fc11dcbfa29417d459990417ae075f)
Secondly, can you provide some more details about your coils? I see that you are using a custom coil wrapped on a bolt. It is hard to see the coils in the images because of all the tape. I am probably wrong but it appears that the two coils are wrapped in a side-by-side fashion?
Sometimes I do not record wire length and number of turns when I make a quick coil. If you have that information, that would be great. If not, may I ask for the ID, OD, and length of the coils?
Oh, and wire gauges would be nice too. :)
Thank you,
Rosphere
(Sorry if you have some of this information already posted here. I looked over the many pages here in this Self Running Micro TPU, with closed loop topic and could not locate the answers. It would help, as others have suggested, if you started a new topic. Your design merits a new topic. I have seen newbies post brand new topics every time they have a question about something. Then I have seen folks, like yourself, post interesting new projects but buried inside someone else's topic. Go for it; start a new topic. You deserve it.)
@Rosphere
oh my goodness. I am totaly embarrased :P ;D. Thank you for correcting me. I updated the other posted photos.
The coils are the same for the Bedini SSG project at yahoo. They are 23 and 26 awg. Bifilar and about 1800 turns. I know it is a lot and I dont think you need that. Most probably a much smaller coil will do. I also tried with one side coil of my relay (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2049722&cp) and it worked too. Thats why I have not said anything about the coils. Any coild will do but than you will have to find the resonating point and base transitor point where it will trigger. It seams that with my big coil it start right away.
Concerning another topic, I thought about it, but this thread here seams to be very related to what I am doing which is make it run for a long time. If we could make the cap or even a very small battery run itself up we could make this mini-TPU work but if members here really think I should open another topic I will. I could create a survey!!!! ;D
Fausto.
PNP symbol is PNP. Cool. Thanks! :)
Quote from: plengo on December 15, 2007, 03:01:07 PM
...The coils are the same for the Bedini SSG project at yahoo. They are 23 and 26 awg. Bifilar and about 1800 turns.
I assume that the thinner, 26 AWG, wire is the one that is attached to the base of the PNP?
That should be my last question... oh, wait, are the wires twisted together before wound on the bolt?
There, that should be my last question. :P
[EDIT] Deleted.
@Groundloop
you are correct. The top is the positive (big plate). NPN will not work but I have not tried it with battery polarity inverted.
@Rosphere
the thinner wire is at the base of the transistor. The coil is air core wound on a spool.
@all
Once you get the circuit built you will have to play with it until you find the correct spot for the base resistor (not used on my circuit) to trigger the transistor and keep it oscilating.
Fausto.
[EDIT] Deleted.
Try to replace the capacitors with non electrolytic ones. Polypropylene or similar, and see if it runs then.
br.
Vidar
Quote from: plengo on December 15, 2007, 04:19:27 PM
the thinner wire is at the base of the transistor.
Thought so. Thanks again, plengo. :)
Quote from: plengo on December 15, 2007, 04:19:27 PM
The coil is air core wound on a spool.
I am confused. What about the bolt in this image;
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.overunity.com%2Findex.php%3Faction%3Ddlattach%3Btopic%3D7.0%3Battach%3D15356%3Bimage&hash=4025ca5541360e3e559e962c3a657fff93d090c4)
did you insert this after winding your wires on a hollow spool?
Oh, and did you twist your wires together before winding them on the spool?
It looks like you have inspired folks here to test your design. Why else would we be asking so many specific questions. Thank you for keeping up with us. :)
@Plengo
Is very important that you public a table with battery tension and time, in this way is possible to do a cleary evalutation of the real system performance.
[EDIT] Deleted.
@abassign
not very professional but I have these numbers but no timeframe - 6.16, 6.80, 717, 5.83, 5.78, 6.11, 5.64, 5.91, 5.63, 5.68, 5.73. Those numbers are since when I posted the first version. When the number get high I tried different designs including the one on the last picture. Than I put it back to the best version (number 5.64 and on).
I will start tomorow a new test with a real computerized power load tester (Power Analyzer Pro from WestRadio). This way I will be able to publish the real data sample collected to everyones scrutinity.
@Rosphere
I think you are looking at the wrong coil. That coil is from another older experiment. For this pictures that I posted I use the coil on this new picture below.
Look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk5VB2g5vOk
Fausto.
ps: Second picture is the running circuit. Dont pay much attention to the mess of wires and extra components not in use. Most of the wires are to connect to the osciloscope and two multimeters that I use. I keep all off and only turn them on when I need to take measurements. I also replace some of the LEDs with new white 15000mcd LEDs and removed 2 other ones.
Notice on the gate of the mosfet (the one on the bottom) a red wire that I use to touch with my fingers to get the transitor on the top to oscilate to the correct frequency. It is necessary to touch many times until the right brightness and energy consumption happens otherwise it will only drain the battery. Yes I know, it is a little trickier than you think to get this baby running just right. But that science isn't it?
:-X
Quote from: plengo on December 15, 2007, 06:25:56 PM
I think you are looking at the wrong coil. That coil is from another older experiment. For this pictures that I posted I use the coil on this new picture below.
Look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk5VB2g5vOk
Thank you. My bad. I must have blinked when you showed the coil from 01:05 to 01:07 in the video. That was two seconds of my life that I will never get back. :D
[EDIT] Deleted.
@EM
You said on the Faux Pas thread that the circuit was not over unity.
What is the design goal of the circuit?
ERS
You can make the design goal whatever you want. Mine was Over Unity. LOL :)
@ERS
On the Faux Pas thread, I had asked if any of you could come to this thread to explain step by step what is happening in the circuit. I did not make reference to OU as per say although you already know the intention of most threads on this site. No, this is not OU, until it is, so we know this obviously. We also know that is should not or cannot lead to OU, but when did that ever stop us? lol
EM has explained how the circuit works but there are still questions such as.
1) How come the LED is placed backwards on the circuit and it still lights. Even though the LED could get a positive from the other side, the negative side of the LED is still and always on the positive side of the large cap.
2) What is happening in the coils themselves.
3) When is the trigger excited.
4) Is the trigger supplying the voltage to the transistor base that is then supplying the voltage to the emitter to light the LED, but this does not change the fact that the positive side of the circuit is still on the negative side of the LED, and the collector is connected to the negative side also.
What I was hoping to have is a complete forensic type analysis (but understandable in layman terms) of the circuit workings, point by point, condition by condition, so we can then take it from there and really understand this circuit, however simple it may seem, it looks like it is doing something else, like it is switching polarities at one point and switching back.
@btentzer
Did you ever measure the ohms of your best toroid coil? Maybe this can be recreated to the ohms values you have regardless of the wire types.
@ Wattsup
I will do that and post it this evening.
@ All
I have been experimenting with a lot of different things. I have combined two other oscillators to this circuit, including the one that plengo is working off of. A lot more to go.
I have also tried some things out of a Tesla patent drawing.
Three Strange Anomalies: (To me, anyway! ;D )
1. Exact same run time, with one Red LED rated at 1.7 volts as three Blue LED's in parallel, rated at 3.7 volts.
2. When the LED goes out, there is still some voltage left in the cap. Short the cap to 0.00 volts, and give it some time and the voltage will come back up to .048 ma at the cap and entire circuit. No matter how many times you short it, it comes back.
3. Wrap loosely a one turn piece of silver plated wire around the wound toroid, and join the loop to it's self. Touch the battery and the LED burn brightly. Move the circle to the trigger side and the frequency increases greatly. move it around and I can adjust the frequency that the LED blinks.
I have changed out the 1000uf cap for 250uf. The time is exactly 1/5th! So I am happy with that, for it increased the number of tests I can run.
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
Hello everyone, I am joining this adventure too. I have been following the videos all month.
I also build one of Dr. Stifflers circuits and had 40 blue LED's lighting up using 12v 22mA..
I ordered some Litz wire to wind my own coil for his circuit, hope to get it soon.
I am planing on using ready made transformers for this circuit though, to see what results I get.
FYI,
I built a second circuit based on the first one but this time I used another coil that I had. It did not work. Interesting enough!!!
It must be related to the coil I or may be my second mosfet is not working right. I will buy a new one let people know if it will work. I am also working on a version where "anyone" will be able to use out of shelf parts and make it work.
Fausto.
[EDIT] Deleted.
@Groundloop
good job man. You are correct. This is the cigar box, but did you notice on the pdf about how they measured and that Brandt and Bedini tried step by step of each node (transitor, coil and batteries) and he had the 2 batteries and the second one was charging from the first and the whole node was only the 2 batteries, 1 transistor and 1 trifilar coil?
That's what I am playing with. Not the whole circuit yet. I noticed that with just what I presented, which is a ultra-simplified and modified version of one node, it will recharge the battery.
Your circuit could work and is probably a more modern design of the whole switching stuff. But we need to test one node at a time before trying the whole circuit, which will probably not work, and than we will have to hell test it. Do you see?
One more point: what I end up with is recharging the battery. You see, when I see anything from Bedini where he uses a transistor and a coil I never look at it as if it was just a transistor and a coil. That guy (Bedini) is a very smart fella. He sees things and design things in a way that it is not that abvious and neither trivial. Just a transitor and a coil can do so much that we dont know. My circuit variation is a clear demonstration of that (if my circuit is indeed recharging the battery).
Fausto.
[EDIT] Deleted.
@abassign
how is your circuit going? You showed some battery charging voltages before. Are you still working on that?
Fausto.
@4Tesla
Any news for your parts. I'm really getting pissed off with these guys. No e-mail, nothing.
Since no descent ferrite in sight, I am starting to try different transformers. That's one of the reasons I asked btentzers' for the ohm values of his coils.
@plengo
Just to let you know, I took EMs circuit but put two toroids, my big one and the small one and put them both on the circuit in parallel. I then took my 9V battery that was dead days ago and that went back up to 3.456 volts, shorted it again, also added a large cap 41000mfd 25vdc, that was shorted out and that never goes up on its own, connected in parallel to the battery and then connected this to the circuit. It has been running now for two days with the LED still lit but very low and voltage at the cap is steady at 1.547 volts. Goes down a tad, then goes up again, down, up, etc.
I think this is the first thread in a long time that is dealing with two devices in one thread. Kind of crazy but hey, birds of a feather flock together.
@ Wattsup
Each of my three windings on the toroid measure 00.2 Ohms. This is with the meter set at the lowest of 200 Ohms.
I hope that helps you! ;)
@ All
I am still messing with one wire wrapped over the toroid in different areas and its effect. I also want to lessen the number of turns on my trigger by half and see what effect it has on my run time.
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
EDIT:
I lessened my triggers winding from 10 turns to 5 turns. The frequency of the blinking lights greatly increased and thus the time was decreased by almost half.
I increased the trigger windings from 10 turns to 13 turns. The time was still less by 1/7th. It would seem that for my toroid, the optimum wind for the trigger is indeed 10.
@btentzer
Thanks for the ohms. If I remember correctly, you are using the same wire AWG on all three of your coils and maybe that's why you have the same ohms. This is important to note. My coils range from .9 to .2, but none have all three equal.
Also, thanks for trying different trigger lengths as I had mentioned a few posts ago. Even though my LED on time is the pits, this enables me to quickly see the slightest difference in windings and I had noticed that more trigger worked better, but this just means more for that coil. This proves the relationship between the coil and LED on times, plus it now proves that there has to be an optimal trigger length. Now imagine if the optimal trigger turns is matched to the optimal coil turns.
That would mean keep the trigger turns and vary the coil turns and test. This would then answer the question from both sides. Unless of course by some freak chance you wound this the first time the right way for all coils also. In that case, you should give me some numbers to play the next lotto 6/49.
I am going to test with ready made transformers, but I need to find small ones that have one primary but two separate secondaries (four wires) and not with two secondaries via a center tap. (That's only three wires.)
Geez I can't wait to get my ferrites. Maybe Santa will take care of it.lol
Quote from: wattsup on December 17, 2007, 09:50:43 PM
(snip)
That would mean keep the trigger turns and vary the coil turns and test. This would then answer the question from both sides. Unless of course by some freak chance you wound this the first time the right way for all coils also. In that case, you should give me some numbers to play the next lotto 6/49.
(snip)
@ Wattsup
That was funny! :D
I actually think that I did hit it right for my small coil. But I wound about three coils before this one. I am a winding dude.
On my Santa wish list I want the following:
1. To find the resonant frequency of my coil
2. To set the current frequency to that resonance
3. To test a multi vibrator circuit and connect to this oscillator
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
EDIT:A strange thing during some experimentation. If you recall, I said that one turn of exposed silver plated copper, joined together over the trigger coil, has a reaction of increasing the LED on/off frequency.
Well tonight I tried some of my steel wire, exposed, all insulation stripped off, and it had ZERO effect over the trigger, whatsoever. Then I tried some aluminum wire, with the insulation on, but the ends stripped, made one turn and joined the ends, over the trigger coil, and it nearly shorted the LED's out. Different metals have different effects with the ferrite core.
@btentzer
I was posting to z_p_e about some EE stuff and thought of this.
What if the resistor is replaced by a small pot and the capacitor is replaced by a small variable capacitor? This would permit you to find this resonance, like I was doing with my RV set-up and my capacitor bank.
Also, is it possible to put a pot in front of the LEDS to adjust or match the output.
I will try it with mine. Maybe it will enable me to find the resonance of my coils or other coils.
@wattsup
No, still nothing. >:( >:( :( I'll never order anything from them again.
@btentzer
Can you please post photos of your toroids so I can see how you wound them.
Thanks,
4Tesla
8)
@All
Have anyone tried using ferrite/ceramic magnet that is shaped like a ring .
Food for thought.Have anyone thought magnet holds almost unlimited amount of latent power.
Imagine this in power station,there is always generator size of man maybe.
In this generator there is magnet.For simplicity imagine electricity indirectly created by 1 magnet could create thousand more magnet that have the similar strength or better depending on material used.
So after spending the afternoon reading this forum from start.
I've managed to build the micro tpu in less than 2 hours base on old resource which i had.
Instead of using Ferrite core ,knowing that this will never create extra electricity unless or maybe the circuit was design as receiver to obtain natural 7.xx Hz frequency(with luck).I choose weak magnet.
Anyway instead of using the original circuit design shown somewhere in the forum.
I just used 30,30 and 10 turns wound for trigger for the transistor(2N3904).
I only tested with capacitor value .15uf to 4.7uf .
I repeat twice do not reverse the transistor for this circuit .You will see smoke.
I connected a diode IN4004 in reverse from emitter to collector in order to protect transistor,to obtain more power from back EMF (I noted the led appear brighter after placing the diode in e & c of transistor) and to improve circuit over all efficiency.
To make this circuit somewhat stable to prevent frequency run (normaly increasing speed) which happen randomly i dunno why.To prevent the transistor from be becoming hot during first charge for few second.
I just placed 470pf ceramic cap between emitter and base of transistor, please do not go lower than this(almost as good as without capacitor).I initially started with 5nf or 5000pf or 503 all the same.
As i've mentioned i used [Ring magnet which] i 've obtained from some coreless motor(From my 1 head vcr player).
Instead of wounding the trigger coil opposite of the ring magnet,i merely wound 10 turns on top of the 30(duct tape),30(duct tape).
I think i'm using the idea from the MEG generator.But instead of using a magnet in a core to obtain electricity(base on crushing magnetic field of the core or EMF).For laziness i simply used a ring magnet in an attempt to obtain electricity base on crushing field within a magnet this time round.
I have not tried using proper copper wire for coil making .Since i was using existing resource i merely used small copper wire the kind that is coated with rubber .
I think i got around 5 min for this setup on 1000uf cap.Remember i'm using a lousy 3mm width ring magnet for the core .
Since i have not connected one of the output the 30 turn meant for led to the circuit.
Since this output is a/c i think.
I noted a strange behavior the led lit brightly on one side then the another.
Since i'm not using proper core,ring magnet .The magnet width is only around 3mm thick(Which way to thin for this experiment) ,which is the same from top down and width for outside to inner core.
The diameter is around 2.5 inch.
The reason this experiment-
To attempt to obtain overunity from crushing field within a magnet(Which i 'm not sure anyone tried before) and concept from MEG project but much smaller version.
Things to improve on
To get a proper width(much thicker than the lame 3mm) for the ring magnet.
To stick with core from original design and put a small magnet rod in center to see if there is any difference.
I have not tried this yet,the original design the trigger coil is placed directly opposite the main coil.
I'm not sure if the efficiency will improved if trigger coil is place 90 deg or 120 of main coil.
I noted one thing most overunity project are using lead battery.Since we know cap discharge quickly over hours why not use weak battery and see if it causes the battery to increase in voltage.Just a suggestion.
I like where you are going with this magpwr. It is a lot like MPI's solid state generator as well. But instead of adding magnets to a ferrite core the core is the magnet. Should make for a simpler approach. Keep going. I think you might find some interesting results to report.
Take care.
nap
@magpwr
First post. Congrats.
Good idea. I am just wondering about the duct tape. Seems rather thick and too heavy duty but trying is learning.
Once your coils are wound, leave the trigger coil with long enough wire so you can try a few more or less turns as this is making a difference.
Quote from: 4Tesla on December 18, 2007, 01:30:31 AM
(snip)
@btentzer
Can you please post photos of your toroids so I can see how you wound them.
Thanks,
4Tesla
@ 4Tesla
I posted some very good pictures, in the start of this thread, of my toroid and what was my setup at that time. I hope that it helps.
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
Thanks Bruce.. I found it..
Are the coils wrapped like this
101010101010
or like this
11111110000000
Thanks,
4Tesla
Quote from: btentzer on November 17, 2007, 09:30:47 PM
Well,
The best time tonight, no power, LED flashing is 4min 45 sec. I tried a wrap around the circumference in different configuration, but no go. I sure would like to get to that 2.5 hours, EM! ;)
I will be attempting the use of many different capacitors and see if there is any difference. If I beat my 4min 45 second on time, I'll let you know.
Cheers,
Bruce
I have some good news. I have created a reproduction of my design with a simplified coil and two transistor instead of a mosfet. The coil is just a small spool, about 2" width, 1" high, 1/2" hole, with 51 turns of 23 and 26 awg wire. It is running beautifully and battery is steadly charging. It started with a 3.5volts and now is 5.35v. It is inside a Faraday cage to guarantee is not RF or something else feeding energy to it.
I also decided to run a test with my older device (the one posted here and on video) using a fully charged 9v regular battery and it is lighting up four LEDs fully bright. Here is the cool thing: it is NOT running the battery down at all. It instantly dropped the voltage from 9.17v to 7.80v (because of the LEDs voltage drop) and it is running for over 24 hous now and the final voltage my wife told on the phone (im at work now) is about 7.95v. So. It is not only running full force but is also charging itself up.
What I was looking for into this test is to know if this will discharge the battey to a very low voltage first and then go up or if it would run full power and then go up.
I think this is something to be explored in more deph. If you guys agree and are willing to participate I would like to know if should I open a new thread or here is fine?
Fausto.
Quote from: plengo on December 18, 2007, 04:32:16 PM
I have some good news. I have created a reproduction of my design with a simplified coil and two transistor instead of a mosfet. The coil is just a small spool, about 2" width, 1" high, 1/2" hole, with 51 turns of 23 and 26 awg wire. It is running beautifully and battery is steadly charging. It started with a 3.5volts and now is 5.35v. It is inside a Faraday cage to guarantee is not RF or something else feeding energy to it.
I also decided to run a test with my older device (the one posted here and on video) using a fully charged 9v regular battery and it is lighting up four LEDs fully bright. Here is the cool thing: it is NOT running the battery down at all. It instantly dropped the voltage from 9.17v to 7.80v (because of the LEDs voltage drop) and it is running for over 24 hous now and the final voltage my wife told on the phone (im at work now) is about 7.95v. So. It is not only running full force but is also charging itself up.
What I was looking for into this test is to know if this will discharge the battey to a very low voltage first and then go up or if it would run full power and then go up.
I think this is something to be explored in more deph. If you guys agree and are willing to participate I would like to know if should I open a new thread or here is fine?
Fausto.
@ Fausto
Wonderful work! Please continue in this thread. It sounds as if you have achieved the goal of this thread, and that is a continuous running LED.
I would suggest several things.
1. Post an updated circuit, including all values for caps, etc.
2. Post a picture of your coil. Post a picture of your battery, and of your circuit.
3. continue to run your LED's. IF it is truly charging itself, it will continue to light the LED's as long as the battery is good.
4. I am purchasing a rechargable battery today. Have you tried this with different types of rechargable batteries?
I would like to replicate this, also, using my 2" toroid.
Quote from: 4Tesla on December 18, 2007, 04:28:32 PM
Thanks Bruce.. I found it..
Are the coils wrapped like this
101010101010
or like this
11111110000000
Thanks,
4Tesla
@4Tesla
101010101010 ;D
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
@plengo
Stick around. The party has only started.
@4Tesla
Finally spoke with OSE and my order left there yesterday. Dashing through the snow.....
My snowblower is on the blink. Guess my chiro will hear from me soon.
@ Plengo
How well did you short your rechargable battery? I am shorting my new one with 120 ohm resistor. But when I remove the resistor, when voltage is zero, the battery will quickly recover it's voltage.
So, knowing this, my question is, are you sure it is the circuit recharging the battery, and not just a function of the battery recovering as it does, due to its chemical nature? And, how do you know that? Have you just left the battery alone, and see if it recovers voltage over time?
Thanks!
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
EDIT:
I may not need to replicate Plengo's circuit, and let me explain why. I measured my new rechargable battery, whose voltage read 7.54 volts. I placed it on a 130 Ohm resistor for several hours to discharge. Voltage was at 2.54 volts. I then wrapped my one turn silver plated wire around the trigger, to increase the brightness and frequency of LED's on/off times. I used my rechargable battery to start the oscillator and left it connected.
Now, about 1 hour later, the voltage is 5.95 volts and climbing. I will keep everyone posted.
EDIT:
9:27 CST 6.34 volts
9:37 CST 6.47 volts
@plengo and bruce,
interesting to say the least. great work!!!!
lol
sam
9:27 CST 6.34 volts 11:07 6.93 volts
9:37 CST 6.47 volts 11:17 6.95 volts
9:47 CST 6.58 volts NOTE: I am running 5 LED's. The first three are in parallel,
the second two are in series. Also, as the charging slows
9:57 CST 6.66 volts I am more and more encouraged, because as the battery
charges, its resistance increases, so it may take the rest
10:07 CST 6.71 volts of the night to charge to its full capacity. We will see! ;D
10:17 CST 6.76 volts 11:27 6.97 volts
10:27 CST 6.81 volts 11:37 6.99 volts
10:37 CST 6.85 volts 11:47 7.00 volts ;D
10:47 CST 6.88 volts NOTE: I am heading for bed as charging slows to a trickle as
resistance build. I will leave it to run all night and post
10:57 CST 6.91 volts what it is reading in the morning.
When the battery is fully charged, I will place it again on
a resistor and drain it and do it again.
Also, I have been using the 250uf cap for tonight. A
future experiment would be to use the 1000uf cap and
see if that changes the speed of the charging effect.
Good night!
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
I found this great site for buying magnets:
http://www.kjmagnetics.com/categories.asp (@wattsup - I trust this site ;))
Using a ring magnet for a core.. interesting idea.
4Tesla
Quote from: btentzer on December 18, 2007, 10:51:17 PM
...........NOTE: I am heading for bed as charging slows to a trickle as
resistance build. I will leave it to run all night and post
what it is reading in the morning. ..........Good night! Holiday Cheers, Bruce
Along with Plengo and abbasign, you have some very interesting Supply Voltage figures there......Can't wait till you post your next lot of results.
Keep up the good work all of you, you've posted some very interesting developments in this thread! ;)
Cheers and KneeDeep from the Toad who Hops.
Quote from: btentzer on December 18, 2007, 10:51:17 PM
9:27 CST 6.34 volts 11:07 6.93 volts
9:37 CST 6.47 volts 11:17 6.95 volts
9:47 CST 6.58 volts NOTE: I am running 5 LED's. The first three are in parallel,
the second two are in series. Also, as the charging slows
9:57 CST 6.66 volts I am more and more encouraged, because as the battery
charges, its resistance increases, so it may take the rest
10:07 CST 6.71 volts of the night to charge to its full capacity. We will see! ;D
10:17 CST 6.76 volts 11:27 6.97 volts
10:27 CST 6.81 volts 11:37 6.99 volts
10:37 CST 6.85 volts 11:47 7.00 volts ;D
10:47 CST 6.88 volts NOTE: I am heading for bed as charging slows to a trickle as
resistance build. I will leave it to run all night and post
10:57 CST 6.91 volts what it is reading in the morning.
When the battery is fully charged, I will place it again on
a resistor and drain it and do it again.
Also, I have been using the 250uf cap for tonight. A
future experiment would be to use the 1000uf cap and
see if that changes the speed of the charging effect.
Good night!
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
great work guys!.
@btentzer
Why dont you deplete two identical batterys and only hook one to the circuit, you can compare the two batterys
periodicly to see if its not just the batterys recovering as they can do.
just a thought.
chad.
I'm not sleeping well tonight... ;)
1am 7.08 volts
2:30 7.12 volts
4:14 7.14 volts (Here I decide to remove silver wire loop over trigger, reducing the draw on the
circuit)
4:17 7.17 volts
4:34 7:18 volts ;D (After I drain the battery again, my next test will be without the silver wire.)
EDIT 1:
9:54 7.23 volts
@btentzer
great question. I have pondering over it for a little while too. My approach to "know" that is quiet simple: if the battery is just adjusting itself to a certain voltage because of its internal workings It should always return to a specific point and always deplete itself as we use it. So let's say, I use it for 2 days running LEDs no special circuits. It will draw its power out and after 2 days I have, lets says, 2 volts less. I let it sit for a day and it comes back 1 volt, BUT it will stop there.
So after 2 days I lost 1 volt. So the battery will deplete somehow and should not return if given enough time for it to settle.
Now, let use this battery with a higher load, one that really pushes the baby. It will draw more energy and, lets say, it will lose 3 volts now. I let it sit again for awhile and its voltage comes back 1 volt. If I do that long enough and repeated enough that battery will drop considerably. I notice though that the battery usually stays at 3.5v evey if you deplete it with a short for days. But that 3.5v is of not good when put on a load anylonger, so you can consider it "dead".
Now here is my real test: deplete the battery, let it sit for a day, voltage should stabilize at a certain level. Put on the device with the load. Voltage should drop and slowly should run down until LEDs are no longer on. Now on my device it is NOT going down and actually it is going up, slowly but surely with the LEDs lit. My last voltage reading was at 8.04volts and It was started with 7.15v (in this one test).
It is inconceivable that this battery would go up during usage. I would accept a little fluctuation but not after days (tens of hours). I also replicated the prototype that I have and I am testing with other 4 batteries and the results are very similiar.
So I must conclude a few possibilities (please jump in to help me here):
- 1 - battery is very strong and it is only running as it is designed and eventualy it will run dow for good and die. The question is how long it will take (the packaging of the battery says it will provide 150ma hours).
- 2 - battery in usage produces an unexpected reaction in its working which produce an extra energy but again it will run down and die. Almost the same as 1 the only difference is the curve of discharge that seams to be flat but at a certain point will have an avalanche decline and suddenly die.
- 3 - the circuit is producing a "deceiving" signal that make the battery believe it is not being discharged which causes its inner workings to lose at an atomic level (which can be a huge amout of energy - EMC2?) (aka Bedini/Bearden theories about heavy ions and flushing electrons in the battery)
- 4 - the current getting out of the battery is in effect going back in again restoring itself up and not losing anything (kind of what the 4 N. Tesla Switch experiment is all about), but that should still loose something after days of usage. Question is again as point 1, how long it will take.
- 5 - the frequency of the transistors are in fact causing a space/time fluctuation which extract enery from the ether and recharges the battery (aka Tom Bearden theories - Pointing and Heavyside EM potential)
- 6 - there is some energy coming from outside entering at the coils or even the capacitance of the board or even the wire. I am testing against that one using one of my circuits running inside a Faraday's cage (and it is also working good)
- 7 - the frequency is causing the point 4 but in such an efficient manner that the battery will simply run for a long, long, long time if it is under an specific matching impedance/load/current, but still acting as point 1. If this is true, it is still great. The question is: how much can I use for my load and for how long.
I am in favor of point 7 and 4. That's why I am letting this thing run for days to see if anything is changing in a way that I can see it running down, but again, the experiments are confusing me even more.
What I want to do now is really replicate my first original prototype but not using my Bedini SSG coil (it is too big, about 315ft of 23awg and 18awg wires). I also would like to have a more scientific approach to setting the resistors for the transistors base so that it will always run with any setup without the need to "play with it".
Fausto.
@ Plengo
A very well thought out post. Very refreshing.
I opt for your number 4. We simply need to prove that is what is happening, beyond reasonable doubt.
I changed the frequency on my circuit in the middle of the night, and it still charges the battery. Right now about 0.01 mv an hour.
10:53 7.24 volts
@ All
Remember that the battery is in the oscillator circuit powering it since early yesterday evening. And up to 7.14 volts of charge, I had placed additional load on the circuit, by use of the silver wire one turn, over the trigger.
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
ah one thing I forgot to mention on my previous post. One of the batteries I used on my tests where it started with 6.16v and end-up with 6.80v. I let it sit for 2 days now and its voltage is the same as when I left. So, it seams that one of my hypothesis is correct where the battery after some usage would comeback up to a certain level and stop unlike what is happening when we leave it running on the the circuit.
Very intriguing indeed.
I also, a long time ago, with another circuit of mine (I have youtube videos of that one) ran a Lead-Acid 12v 5ah battery SLA with another circuit of mine and I had even better results where the battery would go up and stop solidly at 11.29v.
I could run the circuit for days and it would simply stop there. I would totally discharge it to the point of damaging the battery (about less than 2v) and still it would work and stop at 11.29v.
So it seams that this effect is very relevant to the whole frequency/oscilation thing on different kind of batteries. It is in my plan to once seattle this NIMH battery tests I will go to the bigger one and hopefully extract even more power out of it.
Fausto.
ps: Last reading is 8.12v (I started it yesteday at 7.15v at 9pm with a brand new 7v NIMH out of the box battery - I just bought 25 of those on ebay for one buck each).
Great stuff Fausto! ;D
I was thinking either larger batteries, or dead 9volts in parallel would make for a good test.
If I were not seeing this with my own eyes, I would be very skeptical. It is very strange, that the longer I run my circuit the more the battery charges.
As of :
11:46 7.25 volts (as expected!! ;D )
What would happen if you wound the coils like this
01000111010011110100010000100000010100000100110001000101010000010101001101000101
001000000101011101001111010100100100101100100001
Bruce now has a self charging battery system complete with blinky lights. :D ;D :o
thaelin
Now I know why I cant get anything done, you guys keep comming up with new things to do.
8.13v now and 4 LEDs lit.
Fausto.
Quote from: hakware on December 19, 2007, 02:48:20 PM
What would happen if you wound the coils like this
01000111010011110100010000100000010100000100110001000101010000010101001101000101
001000000101011101001111010100100100101100100001
I think this one would be better..
00001110011101000001111010100100100110101000011110101110011001100001110101
:) ;D
4Tesla
Quote from: Thaelin on December 19, 2007, 02:51:57 PM
Bruce now has a self charging battery system complete with blinky lights. :D ;D :o
thaelin
Now I know why I cant get anything done, you guys keep comming up with new things to do.
Hey Thaelin, that was funny!! ;D
@ All
The energizer rechargable battery I am using, I think is a
Nickel Cadmium. It is a Ni-MH!
I just went and purchased a Metal Hyrdride rechargable from Radio Shack. I will try this one next. It would seem that my Charging is slowing to a real trickle, but it is still charging.
3:30 CST 7.26 volts
My new Ni-MH 9 volt is reading 8.35 volts. I will now be putting the resistor to it. The time is 3:32pm.
I will let my
Ni-Cd Ni-MH continue to charge, for as long as it will. It has now been running for about 22 hours straight, and counting. Starting voltage was 2.54 volts. Right now is 7.26 volts. With lots of "blinky" lights in between! LOL
I will short the Ni-MH for several hours and then let it alone and see how much it recovers, to determine a base line.
@ hakware
Unknown, you just have to experiment with your ideas and post the results. ;)
@ 4Tesla and Wattsup
I can't wait for your circuits to get built, to join in figuring this out.
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
EDIT #1:
5:15 CST 7.27 volts ;D (I have decided to let it run all night, again, since it does continue to charge.
Under "NOTE:" on the back of the battery package, it reads, "A fully charged 9V nickel-metal hydride battery will measure approximately 8.4 volts."EDIT #2:After leaving the new battery on a 120 ohm resistor for an hour, I changed to a 60 ohm resistor for the second hour.
When I took the battery off of the resistor it was at 1 volt and climbing. I will check its voltage, until it stops climbing (recovery) on it's own, and post where it stops.
EDIT #3In 41 minutes it has climbed to over 6 volts, by itself. I have placed it back on the resistor, this time a 30 ohm to short it. I will leave it on the resistor all night. In the morning I will take it off of the resistor and see if I can get a steady, non climbing voltage. Then I will put this on the oscillator for a test. I want to know beyond a shadow of a doubt, that it is not the battery simply recovering. It recovered over 5 volts in forty minutes. ;)
Fausto,
Is there any chance you can post the latest circuit you are using, as well as a photo of the circuit and the coil? I'd really like to have a go at replicating this one as well.
- James
Hello All,
I have changed my game plan for tonight! ;D
I wanted to make sure that the battery held some actual amperage, and that I was not just reading volts. I got worried when I hooked my amp meter to the lowest setting, put it between the positive lead of the battery and the positive lead of the oscillator and it read 0.00 :o
So, I took my super mini motor and connected the positive and negative lead to it, and it ran at full strength for about 30 seconds, and then died. Also the LED's died at that point. I disengaged the mini motor pictured below and the oscillations started right back up. The voltage reading on the battery was 1.45 volts. Now, with the battery on the oscillator, it's voltage is back up to 6.72 volts after 45 minutes.
Now, as a base test, I hooked up a standard alkaline battery reading 8.5 volts. I ran the mini motor for over 4.5 minutes, and quit the test, because the motor was getting too hot. So, based on this test, I would say the charge is weak and not putting in much amperage. Of course this would be negated, if it keeps the lights burning and the motor spinning in 30 second intervals for 30 days straight. I will let it charge over night, and try the motor test again in the morning. I will either drain this battery dry, or prove to myself, that it is indeed charging (wattage) and not just raising volts, with no amperage.
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
@zaydana
the new device is still in testing-testing phase. I dont want to give false indications to anyone (but I am showing a quick picture though). The picture #2 is the same circuit I posted earlier with the mosfet and the big SSG coil. It is running now for over 50hours and the battery voltage reads 8.12v (it lowers a bit because I put 2 more LEDs in parallel just to see if it will still go up in voltage).
I am also running another one in the faradays cage and thats a new circuit. I dont want to open now and show pics before it ran for a long time and voltage increases so no false alarms here. But here is the tip. It is the same design as in my first post without the mosfet where the transistor was shown to be wrong and I corrected it later with photoshop. It is just playing with ideas on the same design.
It is a little trick to get it going. You have to touch here, and touch over there, keep watching the voltage and than voila, it runs and runs good.
My new design and test proof tonight is a much easier to replicate by everyone with very little fuss. It is using the same coils as in the other thread with Dr. Stiffler. THe reason I chose that coil is because it is very well documented already and everyone can buy it from ebay and add the secondary onto it. I will not have to explain.
Now, my best design so far IS the one posted before with the mosfet and my big coil. THe coils has 315ft of 2 wires, 23awg and 18awg, bifilar. So just put together two magnet wires and wind it up until you use a full 315ft. I dont think it is really necessary to use that big coil and that's why I am trying different coils, shelf made, or in other threads explained (such as the Dr. Stiffler old antena coil from the COld Electricity thread).
I really dont think it is the charge of the battery or its self-recharging that is doing it. Because I already have many batteries that I "killed" and they all come back to a low voltage and it is not good to run anything more than 30 minutes max. But when connected to this circuits they run for days and charge up.
Tomorow if everything goes good with new device I will post it with more details.
Fausto.
Fausto:
Great results!!!!! This is incredible. Thanks for posting the lastest pictures. Keep up the great efforts.
Bill
@ Fausto
Your circuit indeed may turn out to be more efficient. You have your lights steady on, and not blinking. This would be very good indeed for a number of applications. I look forward to your making it work with Dr. Shifflers barium ferrite coil, as I have 7 of those on hand.
The batteries amperage must also be tested and compared.
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
sorry guys. I just could not resist after all it is almost Christimas.
Fausto.
One more thing. First picture is probe 1x at gate of mosfet with 5us Time Div at .5v Div. And second picture is same signal at .02us Time Div.
Fausto.
@plengo
Is that your last schematic diagram or is the newer one you were talking about. and could you re-post your most current schematic diagram to this circuit as well as showing how your hooking two of them up. also does the second circuit run without a battery in line? I just want to keep the smoke factor down when I build this. Thanks
@hakware
this one is the old schematic with the mosfet. But this has two circuits one connected to the other so that one feeds the other back instead of having two separate circuits. I dont want to give more details until tomorow after it is running for the whole night. I have to make sure voltages will not go down after 24 hours than I will be pleased to help others without misleading anyone.
But because I am not perfect, I just wanted to give some pics up so to keep everyone "inspired" to do good work. ;D
And since I am here posting. I noticed that the new design has exactly the same level of luminescence of my succesfull first circuit. If I play with it I can make it go very, very bright, but than voltage goes down. So I have to find the best spot and it has some correlation.
Fausto.
@plengo
Sure, I understand. I will look forward to your upcoming data.
@ Fausto
I hope that you have very good news in the morning. I look forward to trying your circuit as well. Fooling with these batteries, now for 2 days, I am worried about the amperage. I have seen in these new ones, that the volts can go up, but there is very little amperage. Enough to keep the LED's lit, but for how long, is the question, for you and me. That is why I continue to test for amperage, not just reading the volt level.
Also, with these new batteries, they do recover, very quickly, in voltage reading. I drained my newest battery to .45 volts and it recovered in voltage by itself to 5 volts and climbing in 10 minutes. I then put it back onto the 30 ohm resistor to drain it some more. Just by themselves, these are incredible batteries. But, let me add, that the 5volt reading, had very, very little amperage. Not even enough to start my mini motor. I am encouraged that you have been running the LED's all of this time. I would suggest taking a volt and amp reading of each LED and multiplying that by LED's and hours run. These batteries are rated at 150ma @ 8.4 volts. This is 1.26 watts. I think we would all be interested to see those numbers, if you would be kind enough. I can not do that with mine, because of the on/off of the LED's. It becomes a guessing game.
@ All
The battery I drained with the mini motor, went up to 7.02 volts. This charged much quicker then last night. I have removed all but 1 LED. The flashing LED's look cool, but are useless. Unlike steady on LED's, that can be used for a flash light, etc. The goal is to have the battery self charge. And now there is more power for that...I hope. ;)
When the battery reached 7.02 volts, I disconnected it and hooked it to the motor and it ran for about 20 seconds and then died. I then have reconnected it to the oscillator and am letting it charge (I hope) up again. I just need to be convinced this is not the batteries. These batteries are incredible by themselves.
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
@btentzer
you are absolutely right about this batteries. That's why in this new test I am doing I connected 40 LEDs so it MUST drain the hell of the batteries. My older test is still running pretty good. Now at 8.13v and LEDs are bright as when I started. I will run more tests where I will hide this things under somewhere far away from any interferance of any kind so that I will be 100% sure it is not radio waves or something like that feeding the circuit. One test at the time.
I already see this new circuit drainning down very fast the batteries but lets see where it will stop by tomorow morning. The same happened with my good running baby. It went down to 3.5v then slowly climbed back to 8.13v.
My last measurement of current in one LED was about 5ma. I have 40 in parallel. So I am really pushing this guys. I can also see already that the big coil is a huge factor here. I dont know why but it is leading me to believe that.
Fausto.
ps: video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3DsUTpdnDM
What I would like to know is the Inductance of the 2 windings.
If we know how many Henrys the coils are we could try duplication them with smaller coils.
You are using air core coils, how would ferrite cores work.
The coils would be a lot smaller for the same inductance.
The core of an old flyback transformer could be used.
Hi Fausto,
what is exactly the MOSFET doing inyour circuit ?
Is it acting with its gate like an antenna for the oscillations
and then the MOSFET also oscillates ?
2. Why are your scopeshots so "blurry" ?
Is there much radiofrequency overlayed inside
the traces ?
Or can?t you sync the scope to the fastest oscillations ?
3. in your 2 circuits setup, how do you feed
each circuit with each others ?
Many thanks and keep up the good work.
Regards, Stefan.
dear plengo
there is a posibility to make a nice diagram of your device?
i was trieing to folow your old diagram, but i couldent, there was no windings Nr. and so on
i find your device beutiful, while loadind up the battery, so please make a nice diagram, you know how much we want a nice replication
ilan
Hi All,
This is a beautiful thing to see.
7.8Hz resonant circuit right?
Sync'd up nicely with Schumann Resonance?
35 pages here, I guess I'll see if theres a schematic in there somewhere.
Cheers,
Harvey
@btentzer and @all
Good going.
I went to my EE surplus place and spent a good 20 minutes rummaging through a mixed transformer bin and found this small transformer ($1.50) with two primaries and two secondaries, all isolated.
Used one primary and two secondaries.
Put it on EM's classic circuit.
Gave it 9vdc for three seconds and it ran and ran and ran for a whooping 9 minutes 10 seconds. For the first time, I could see it flicker fast although very low intensity, but 9:10, wow, that's my record. It lit for longer but the LED was really really low.
I can try with both primaries in parallel or in series or in mobius.
There is potential here since having this working circuit, I can now test with adding an aerial plate on the positive and a ground plate on the negative. Or other tests. Great.
This is great because it gives me a standard and any tests deviations will help me learn. Just great. I put a photo below.
@btenzer, how did you start your non-battery trials. I used 9 vdc for 3 seconds.
I think this would have to be standardized also.
****************************
I have a story about a battery, but did not know which thread to put it in, so here goes.
This was told to me by a guy that was at my home with three other inventors for four days of working on an potential OU device. (Big gears, motors, etc.)
It is about a guy in Quebec that invented a battery about 12-14 years ago. He could charge up cars continuously until the battery was too low, recharge it for 10 minutes and it would go back up to full, then continue like that, day in day out. He told me that the inventor had made and sold some of these batteries but eventually he was told to stop everything because the authorities were afraid the batteries would blow up. Yeh sure.
Anyways, he gave me some places to look for the inventor in the Montreal area, so the next day I called a few major battery stores that were in the vicinity and spoke with the president of one of these. I related this observation to him and asked about this inventor.
He said the inventor was not from his company but that he remembered also some guy that was making super power batteries. He said he had died but that his son took over. He also mentioned that what he would do is take marine grade deep charge batteries, remove about 1" of the acid solution and replace with 1" of vegetable oil. Apparently this mixture gave the battery extreme power and durability plus fast charging. Maybe I should try this but first I would need some protection, just in case the authorities were right.
@all,
Wow! 10 days away and all these development. Certainly needs some fast catching up. So, there's at least 2 circuits that I would like to follow?
1. EMDevices or it's variant. Maybe the one from Bruce being the latest?
2. Plengo's.
@Plengo,
Understand that this is a "living" circuit subject to changes and modification but looking at your photos only serves to confuse me.So, would it be possible to at least draw up a circuit diagram and use that as a base for us to replicate?
Great work.
Regards and happy holidays,
sanmankl
Quote from: wattsup on December 20, 2007, 07:59:59 AM
@btentzer and @all
Good going.
I went to my EE surplus place and spent a good 20 minutes rummaging through a mixed transformer bin and found this small transformer ($1.50) with two primaries and two secondaries, all isolated.
Used one primary and two secondaries.
Put it on EM's classic circuit.
Gave it 9vdc for three seconds and it ran and ran and ran for a whooping 9 minutes 10 seconds. For the first time, I could see it flicker fast although very low intensity, but 9:10, wow, that's my record. It lit for longer but the LED was really really low.
I can try with both primaries in parallel or in series or in mobius.
There is potential here since having this working circuit, I can now test with adding an aerial plate on the positive and a ground plate on the negative. Or other tests. Great.
This is great because it gives me a standard and any tests deviations will help me learn. Just great. I put a photo below.
@btenzer, how did you start your non-battery trials. I used 9 vdc for 3 seconds.
I think this would have to be standardized also.
(snip)
@ Wattsup
Congratulations on a working circuit! That does give you something to work with, for sure.
My base time was holding the battery to the circuit for 20 seconds and then release. It was just a time I had chosen, and stuck to.
@ All
I measured my battery this morning, the one plugged into the circuit, and it reads 7.16. I am not going to drain it, for I want to see if it will charge past yesterday's high.
My other battery has been draining on a 30 ohm resistor, now for about 18 hours. The voltage has already climbed, by itself, to 3.40 volts. I will wait until I see it hold steady before testing it. If it will hold steady.
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
Guys this is as simple as it can be. This first picture is the one that I have total success. It is now 8.18v. Six LEDs up and running non-stop for what, now, 4 days? and voltage only increasing.
The other replications are still in no good progress. So no need to fuzz anyone with wrong designs. But this one is working good. The coil I think is the special stuff that balances out. It is a 315ft magnet wire, 23 and 18awg. Bifilar. I said that already a couple times. It is as simple as anyone can wind a wire into a spool. The spool is 2.75" width, 2.5" height and 1" hole. Plastic. No core just air. Just take two wires and put them together and wind the baby until your 315ft goes out, simple. If you need more info goto the yahoo group of Bedini_Monopole3. They have in scruciating detail how to build one.
The mosfet is only helping me to get to the right voltage and balance. I tried a miriad of transistors and mosfets and the IRF510 is the one that works the best. You will have to touch the gate a few times until this gets to the rigth place, where the LEDS will be about 1/3 lit and will run and the battery will charge. There is a video at youtube that shows that (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXtafVgJW_M).
The second picture is the osciloscope at any of the LEDs terminals. It took me a little awhile to get it clean and steady for me to be able to take the picture. That answers hartberlin question. Tdiv = 2us and TVdiv = .5volts.
Everything that I am doing is just playing with that design and testing the hell of it.
Fausto.
Sorry for interrupting but have any of you realised that all you do is to play with Back EMF.
Back EMF cannot provide overunity and it's well understood and is just a transformation of voltage and current levels, not energy.
@Honk
I think you are almost right Honk. You see, Bedini has demonstraded the opposite (at least it is my opnion). BEMF is just as conventional EE as it can be, BUT its effects on batteries is not.
Look at Bearden and Bedini explanations why the BEMF (or gradient as Bedini calls it) works at http://www.icehouse.net/john1/index101.htm.
Fausto.
If there's magnets involved there might a possibility to harvest some of the forces from this source.
Like the bedini motor, but without magnets there is no OU from Back EMF, but I'm still sceptical on this matter.
Back EMF is simply: Input Energy - Losses = Output Energy in reverse polarity but no gain of free energy.
The losses can be pretty big if not taken into account, e.g saturating the coil core, copper losses, eddy currents, and so on.....
@ Plengo
Thank you for the drawing. One question. Which wires are the 23awg and which are the 18awg? Also, the gate to the Mosfet is not connected to anything?
I know that the LED's are rated at 20 ma but if you could give an exact amperage and voltage reading of an actual LED that would be helpful. Working with the 1.26 watts as stated by the battery, that would be helpful.
@ All
After draining my newest battery for 18 hours, the voltage has recovered, by itself from .01 volts to 6.48 6.95 and still climbing. These battery are very, very, very difficult to drain. I am not trying to be a skeptic, just reporting the facts, so far. That is why I want to do the Ohms law calculation on Fausto's circuit and see how long it would have to run to surpass stated wattage of battery. This would be based on actual voltage, amperage measurements of the LED's.
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
EDIT:
After draining my newest battery for 18 hours, the voltage has recovered, by itself from .01 volts to 6.48 6.95 and still climbing.
Voltage of battery connected to circuit has gone up to 7.17 volts.
EDIT #2:
I think that I have hit on a good plan for a test.
Step 1: When the drained battery that has self recovered itself to 7.17 volts, I will connect it to my mini motor and time how long it runs (if at all, my guess is very little amperage) I will post that.
Step 2: I will then remove present battery from my oscillator and put in the drained battery. When it's voltage, attached to the oscillator once again reads 7.17 volts I will remove it and again connect it to my mini motor and time how long it runs. I will post that. If it runs longer after being attached to the circuit then it did by simply being left alone to recover, I think will be indisputable proof that there is indeed something to this, and that it is not just the super battery doing it's thing.
@btentzer
man I hate to be sick. Having fever.
The D2 voltage is 1.64v and D1 is 2.48v. Current going through all of the D1s is .2ma (point two milliamps) (it is between the Source of the mosfet and the first D1). Voltage cross battery now is 8.18v. Very steady current. I assume the current was always like that or higher.
Note: This circuit has been running NOT in the faraday's cage. I am going to add some more LEDs and if voltage still does not drop than I will hide it under a cage and leave it there for a good week. Cross the fingers.
I started another version, again ::), this time I made a bifilar coil using 200 turns of 26 awg and 30 (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2036277&cp=&sr=1&origkw=magnet+wires&kw=magnet+wires&parentPage=search). Same circuit but much smaller and compact coil. 27 LEDs (D1) plus one 3mm LED (D2) (referencing the drawing again). Lets see if this will work.
Fausto.
@ Plengo
I hope that you get to feeling better! ;)
Based on my math, and the figures you have provided, I come up with a run time of 126 hours based on a fully charged metal hydride battery. If someone else can do the math and see if you come up with the same number. I am basing it on 1.26 watt capacity of these batteries as stated on the package.
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
[EDIT] Deleted.
@Groundloop
so if you right, does it means that If my circuit run for more than a full week it passed the capacity of the batery? This is a 150mah battery. If I am consuming .2 milliamps I would say it will take 150/.02 = 750 hours to run, so I need one full month, no? (I am horrible with mathematics ;D).
Fausto.
@Groundloop
cool man. Very nice. Yea, it will be helpfull if you watch my video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXtafVgJW_M. There I show that it is a little tricky to make it run "right" where there is a balance where it will run and not run down. The interesting thing is once you get it right you can disconnect the battery and connect it again and it will "remember" that last setting. I know, it is craizy but again, thats monkey science, I am only stating the facts.
Another thing that happend to me was, as I am trying to create new designs I notice too that using the same specs I got totatly different results concerning that "sweet spot" where it runs good. I tried about 5 mosfets already only one worked. (I am not trying to trick anyone here, sorry for the difficulty).
Fausto.
[EDIT] Deleted.
Hi Ground,
I cannot see a 10-12cm long piece of wire connected to the gate of your MOSFET (maybe you have it under the circuit board?) what can be seen in Fausto's video he refers to touching it to start (this is connected to the gate electrode of the MOSFET if I am right?).
I think it is somehow an important part and may function as an antenna to the otherwise open circuit of the gate and may modulate the gate / or keeps the MOSFET in a just switched on state by feeding its gate by some input voltage picked from the stray field coming from the big bifilar air core coil. And when you first touch the gate, you charge up its gate-source capacitance to open the drain - source channel.
So I think it would be worth experimenting with the length and the position of this wire with respect to the bifilar coil.
Gyula
@ Plengo
I was figuring total wattage, not amp hours. I think that wattage is more accurate. we know the total wattage of said battery is 1.26 watts. 150 ma X 8.4 volts
You are using .02 ma at a total of 4.12 volts. .002 X 4.12 = .01 watts per hour
1.26 watts/.01 wph = 126 hours run time
Someone please correct this figure if it is not correct. Thank you.
@ All
I have unplugged my battery from the oscillator (until tonight!). It had gone up to 7.18 volts
I took my drained battery that had shown a recovered voltage of 7.11 volts. I hooked it to my mini motor and it did not run it, at all, not for a second. As I suspected, no amperage, or not enough to move the motor.
Now I have plugged that same battery into the oscillator. When it reaches 7.11 volts again, after having been on the oscillator, I will try again the mini motor. If it moves, I will be convinced that it is receiving a charge from the circuit and that it is not battery recovery. We will see... ;D
[edit: my computer crashed as I was typing]
@Groundloop
I am impressed that my monkey science can intruigue and Engineer. Iam an engineer myself just of a different kind (computer software). I glad you have some toys to play. ;D
I have an excellent news. I have finally reproduced my best baby and it is the same circuit but it is running 20+LEDs and voltage is going up. Oh boy, thanks to you Groundloop I forgot that I must use the D2s correctly because they drop the voltage just right so that the battery will not drain to death but just enought to light the LEDs and the oscilation (I think) does the trick of "tricking" the battery. Later tonight I will spec the differences.
@gyulasun
the gate of the mosfet on my original circuit is not connected to anything (see the pic). But in the new one I do connect to the base of the PNP transistor. Again, science monkey here trying until I find the "sweet spot".
Fausto.
[EDIT] Deleted.
@btentzer
my amp meter is 1ma total and it is showing .2ma so I think it is .00002ma? Right?
Fausto.
@ Plengo
At that amount, of .00002 ma it would have to run for 525 days. That does not sound correct! LOL
Can one of the EE's reading this figure the math please?
How much amperage are you drawing on the 20 LED's?
@ ALL
Okay, I am becoming more convinced that here is something strange happening. Here is what happened.
At about 8:30 this morning I took off the resistor from the 18 hours it was draining. I allowed the battery to recover voltage until it reached 7.11 volts. This occurred after a total of about 8 hours.
So it took just over 8 hours to recover voltage (very little amperage).
After testing with the motor, the voltage dropped back down to about 3 volts.
Placed on the oscillator it has already gone past 7 volts to 7.09 volts showing, after less than one hour.
Also a side note: I added back to my circuit the smaller cap of 250 uf and the 5 LED's. It seems with a load, the voltage rises faster, in the other battery I am testing.
[EDIT] Deleted.
Quote from: Groundloop on December 20, 2007, 06:20:10 PM
@Plengo,
No, if the amp meter has a full scale of 1mA then what you read is what you use = 0,2mA.
There is a lot of light going on for such a low current. LOL
Ground.
@ Groundloop
I agree. That is a lot of LED light for very, very, very low current.
@ Plengo
This does help to explain why the voltage was not dropping on this. It would have to run for 525 days straight, to run the battery out at the amount of wattage you are using. This is what, day two or three? LOL
With such small current being used, one can not say quite yet, based on the volts rising, that the battery is being charged. My metal hydride battery, goes up super fast in voltage when hooked to the oscillator. The oscillator speeds that rise time up. But does it add amperage to the battery? We need to find some controlled test to determine that. From what I have seen today in testing, these batteries will never show zero volts, and it is very easy to see the voltage rise, when not hooked to any circuit. When hooked to an oscillator, the rise time is much, much quicker. But we need amperage in the battery to convince that it is being truly charged, IMHO.
@ All
I took my drained battery that I then hooked to the oscillator, until it reached 7.13 volts, and hooked it to the motor. Nothing. Volts rise up, but no amperage in the battery.
I have decided to let this same battery charge all night and again retest for amperage in the morning. LED's are to small of a load to test.
NOTE:
On a side note, using Plengo's super efficient circuit to light many LED's, say for a flashlight, that can run 525 days straight would be a great thing in itself. I would want one for sure! ;)
If we are to know the battery is being charged and not just tickled, something OTHER than the voltage reading must be the indicator. Please feel free to post some ideas for tests. Thank you.
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
Hi Fausto,
great new circuit.
0.2 mA means 0.0002 Amperes,
that is 200 MikroAmperes.
At this current level these bright white LEDs already have a nice
luminance , but they don?t yet light up the room ! ;)
;D
You are right with your 750 hours run time,
so you would have to wait about a month to see,
what is going on.
It will probably run much longer...
All these pulse circuits and especially
the Bedini and Newman circuits have the effect to
change the internal structure of batteries.
Due to the high backEMF voltages they pulse onto the
battery poles, the inner plates or electrode material will
become more porous and this way it will get more surface.
But more surface also means this battery will be able to
release more energy to the output.
Tom Bearder says, that the Bedini pulsers convert ZPE this way directly
inside the batteries and charge them up this way, but I have seen no long time study yet,
how long the batteries last and what batteries wouldbe best for this ZPE converter
effect.
But I have seen it too, when I played with the Markus Wagner circuit,
that I could enhance the capacity of my NiMH batteries very much
and charged via this circuit they lastest in a camera much longer
than before by using a normal battery charger.
Fausto, can you only get the battery charging effect at 0.2 mA or
can you get it also at a different higher current level ?
Does it onlywork,if you have insertedthis analog amperemeter
or does it also work without it ?
Where exactly did you connect into the circuit the amperemeter ?
This could be important as it acts like a choke...
Also the gate of the MOSFET works as a capacitive antenna, especially
in your breadboard experimentation board,where it has around 20 to 50 pF
capacitance versus your source and drain,
so maybe you just try to use such a capacitor to couple it directly to another
part via it...
Use a twisted wire pair capacitor, if you need low capacitances...so you can
control the capacitance in the pF range.
What is this circuit doing, if you remove ( shortout) the MOSFET ?
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
Hi, I am new.
Finally go something in the correct direction. It's very intresting device.
I saw the movie from Joseph Newman. He is running car on same way.
I have to praise everybody who are doing somethig good for humanity.
Best to all
@hartiberlin
I think your explanation is the one that pleases me most. After trying many, many different designs this was the one the stands the most.
QuoteFausto, can you only get the battery charging effect at 0.2 mA or
can you get it also at a different higher current level ?
For this one yes. I am trying another one with 20+ LEDs to see exactly that, if it can run with much higher current and still charge up. THis way, if succesfull, I could run may be my TV? (Connectin 50 of those together).
QuoteDoes it onlywork,if you have insertedthis analog amperemeter
or does it also work without it ?
Where exactly did you connect into the circuit the amperemeter ?
This could be important as it acts like a choke...
It works without the meter better. I only inserted the meter so that I could satisfy our inquiries.
I connected between the source of the mosfet and the first D1 (see my diagram) , in other words, all the LEDs are fed through this meter. So real current measurement.
QuoteAlso the gate of the MOSFET works as a capacitive antenna, especially
in your breadboard experimentation board,where it has around 20 to 50 pF
capacitance versus your source and drain,
And you are right. I tried that two. Many different capacitance up to picos. My hand was the best. For the new circuit I connect the gate to the base of the transistor. But again, this only worked after trying at least 5 different mosfets. This circuit is not a very good for mass production since it depends on very specific qualities of the parts.
QuoteWhat is this circuit doing, if you remove ( shortout) the MOSFET ?
It will simply stop. Now, another version of mine is running inside a cage and in that version I have no mosfet but 2 transistor one PNP and the other NPN.
[EDIT] now looking at my notes I see that at first it will not run, but touching here and there, changing caps and voila it will run full power. Drainning the battery like a river.
With the other version using PNP and NPN I could find a sweet spot where it runs just enough to not drain the battery and still light the LEDs.
@btentzer
QuoteWith such small current being used, one can not say quite yet, based on the volts rising, that the battery is being charged. My metal hydride battery, goes up super fast in voltage when hooked to the oscillator. The oscillator speeds that rise time up. But does it add amperage to the battery? We need to find some controlled test to determine that. From what I have seen today in testing, these batteries will never show zero volts, and it is very easy to see the voltage rise, when not hooked to any circuit. When hooked to an oscillator, the rise time is much, much quicker. But we need amperage in the battery to convince that it is being truly charged, IMHO.
I think you right. But hey, LOL, if it will run my LEDS for 500 days I could put 100s of these dead batteries and may be run my computer. ;D ;D ;D
I am definetly having fun. Thanks to you guys. This forum is very fun.
Now, Lets see the voltages: .... 8.14v Ops I better remove the meter. It is draining more than it should. LOL again.
Fausto.
[EDIT]
Voltage now is 8.16v and rising. I removed the meter. BTW the other one with 20 LED has on voltage on D1 = 2.47v, D2 = 2.67v and current on all is 1ma.
@ Plengo
I like the idea of 20 LED's lit, using only .0053 watts per hour! LOL
Are they lit about a third of their brightness, also?
Each LED under full power of 3.4V will draw on the average 25mA that is 1/2 Amp or 500mA or .5AH (thats 20 LED's)
If the LED's are under FULL power draw at 3.4V that equates to 1.7Watts Draw
[EDIT] Deleted.
@groundloop
I was thinking of trying a multi megohm resistor for the gate so that it would never require a human touch to operate. but this will require some experimentation of course. seems to me any power used to operate the gate is power wasted :)
[EDIT] Deleted.
@groundloop
Yea, but even that voltage would change depending on the battery voltage and at a certain point cause the battery to drain through the two resistors used to provide the voltage divider. I was just thinking of logic circuits where it would be pulled up or down. Hmm, going to have to think about this for a minute.
I just want to take that floating gate problem out of the equation.
[EDIT] Deleted.
this looks like a "prank" PM device we made in college.
we designed it to pick up the EMF from the electrical wiring in the building, to light up a few LEDs and turned a motor/fan
Hi @All,
I know it's almost Christmas.
To @Groundloop and @plengo
I have discovered a site that uses mosfet for a Crystal Radio which doesn't requires antenna(Yep no Antenna it's optional and no batteries needed).
I think this project is almost similar to the link below. Especially the 2nd Circuit diagram using mosfet in place of crystal.
http://www.arrl.org/qst/2007/01/culter.pdf
[EDIT] Deleted.
@groundLOOP ;)
sorry about the nick.
Your quite right, we try to improve on things, so much so that we might break things in the process. at any rate my circuit is the same as yours except the transistor is the 2N3905 and I am using an IRF740 and 3 UV LED's. I am using a dead alkaline battery at the moment which I pulled out of the drawer at 4.3V. it is now at 6.25V after 6 hours on circuit.
Im going to build a couple more and try 3 lithium button cells as well as a ni-cad just to see what happens on each type.
Quote from: magpwr on December 21, 2007, 02:49:08 AM
Hi @All,
I know it's almost Christmas.
I have discovered a site that uses mosfet for a Crystal Radio which doesn't requires antenna(Yep no Antenna it's optional and no batteries needed).
I think this project is almost similar to the link below. Especially the 2nd Circuit diagram using mosfet in place of crystal.
http://www.arrl.org/qst/2007/01/culter.pdf
Strange I did not even see that and I get that magazine :( I will have to order some of those fets and try them out, but I dont exactly see the relation here as that circuit the Fet biasing is different and an alternative to a 1N34 germanium type diode. (although a heck of a lot more efficient.
Neat idea though.
[EDIT] Deleted.
Quote from: Groundloop on December 21, 2007, 03:08:43 AM
@Hakware,
Thanks for the info. I will see if I can find another FET that work. My IRF540 does not do a good job in this circuit.
Groundloop2003
well the IRF740 might not be the best FET either, I should be able to run more LED's that 3 according to everyone else's reports here. Let me know if you get any better results with any other FET styles. It seems the FET is a key ingredient in higher output on this design.
For reference:
IRF740 Specs http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/pdf/67495/INTERSIL/IRF740.html (http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/pdf/67495/INTERSIL/IRF740.html) hakwares fet
IRF540 Specs http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/pdf/22392/STMICROELECTRONICS/IRF540.html (http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/pdf/22392/STMICROELECTRONICS/IRF540.html) groundloops fet
IRF510 Specs http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/pdf/67483/INTERSIL/IRF510.html (http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/pdf/67483/INTERSIL/IRF510.html) plengos fet
IRF840 Specs http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/pdf/22404/STMICROELECTRONICS/IRF840.html (http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/pdf/22404/STMICROELECTRONICS/IRF840.html) Original TPU speced mosfet
Seems lower resistance should be key but the 540 shows lower internal resistance than the one that plengo is using.
[EDIT] Deleted.
@groundloop
I have some IRF840's I will try them next and see if higher internal resistance makes magic on a different unit.
I am also going to dig out some 1:1 audio transformers I have around here and see if they will work. maybe take some of the coil guesswork out of it
with a standard off the shelf part..
Quote from: Groundloop on December 21, 2007, 02:22:40 AM
Attached is a drawing of my circuit as it is now.
Regards,
Groundloop2003
@ Groundloop2003,
What software do you use to draw the diagram. Looks good!
Cheers, sanmankl
[EDIT] Deleted.
Quote from: Groundloop on December 21, 2007, 09:37:02 AM
@Sanmankl,
You will probably find this hard to bellive but I use Windows Paint! ;D
Groundloop.
@Groundloop,
Hmmm, you must have build up a set of "library" of icons/symbols, etc....... ;D
Cheers, sanmankl
[EDIT] Deleted.
wow, how much I missed since yesterday. Dont you guys sleep? ;D ;D
Last night after leaving the meter connected to my ONLY device that works the battery voltage started to drop and I thought that that would be the end of my baby. But, this morning its voltage is climbing again it is now 8.19v my record breaking. ;D
All the other versions are not a success, they all drain the battery for good and never return. Except that if you leave the battery it returns to a certain level, just like some others have reported nothing special about that, but this one and my first is still running good.
I am kind of thinking that it is not only ghost voltage or just 500+ days of power left in the battery because it does not make sence why the voltage would EVER go up, specially if the battery that I am using was steadly in its initial voltage for a long time. This is really puzzling me.
@Groundloop
i think your theory about the mosfet is correct based on my experience where when I find the sweet spot I can disconnect the battery and connect it back and it "remembers" that setting so I dont have to play with it anylonger. Very strange. And thanks for the picture.
Fausto
[EDIT] Deleted.
@Groundloop
I only connect probes when I need to see the wave and the voltage meter is off all the time and on only when I take the voltage.
Looking at your design I see you use a ultra bright LED red, in my design I only use the 3mm LEDs (the two in parallel) because they give a nice voltage drop that helps regulate the power consumption. It seams to me that there is a balance of how much power can I use and how much power is restored in the battery.
Is it possible that the coil is receiving energy from sameplace and recharging the battery?
Fausto.
[EDIT] Deleted.
[EDIT] Deleted.
@Fausto, Groundloop,
I have tried with the following MOSFETs.
IRF510, IRF530, IRFZ44, FQP50N06 and this is what I learned.
All of them will start with drain i.e. running the battery down. Some of these MOSFETs only require a 'touch' of the gate in order to put them into 'charge mode' but some requires more than a touch. The 50N06 requires touching the gate and the drain (tab) simultaneously in order to light up the LEDs. Once lighted up, I'll 'prick' the gate wire with my finger and each time I do that the LEDs will reduce the brightness a tad and hopefully, it goes into 'charge mode'.
My best performer so far is the IRF530. So, I suppose your mileage may vary.....
Cheers, sanmankl
Quote from: Groundloop on December 21, 2007, 11:41:40 AM
I did not have a 3mm LED but I found one 3mm DUO LED (Red/Green) so I soldered in that LED in parallel.
Now I have a week glow in the ultra bright leds and a week glow in the duo led. My NiMh battery is drained down
to 4,5 Volt. The battery is now so drained that I'm having problems starting the oscillator.
Attached is a drawing with the type number on the LEDs I'm using.
Groundloop.
The attached picture is called"Tesla Switch", and, as far as I can see, it isn't a Tesla Switch
http://www.panaceauniversity.org/D3.pdf (bottom of page 3 and page 4)
I wonder if there is a place in your work for a Tesla Switch which seems to extract radiant energy.
Paul.
@Groundloop
may I suggest you try with a fully charged battery like 9v? The reason being that when I found this one that is running good I tried with drained batteries but the best was with a battery above 7v. So give it a try!
My voltage now is a record breaking, tada........ 8.22v WOW. When I removed the meter I did another quick touch on the gate to set it to the sweet spot (most probably a swettER spot) and now voltage is increasing even faster. Man this circuit is kicking my butt.
Now I am playing with a version that does not use a battery but a series of capacitors in a "very weird configuration" (you know, I am a monkey scientist ;D).
@Paul-R
you almost correct Paul-R. This design of mine came when I was playing with this document (http://www.esmhome.org/library/john-bedini/report_on_4_battery_switch.pdf) and look at Figure T2 - Test 11A and Test 11B. I was trying to test just one node of the N.Tesla 4 Swtich (like Bedini and Brandt did) and voila here we are.
Fausto.
@Groundloop
voltage this morning was 6.45V which higher than the 6.25V from last night. It is slowly charging that alkaline battery. Going to radio shack today and getting a NIMH battery :)
Quote from: Groundloop on December 21, 2007, 10:47:17 AM
I have changed my FET to IRF840 which has a higher internal resistance compared to IRF540.
I can get the circuit to run at ease by touching the gate but I can not get the battery to gain voltage.
The difference between your circuit and mine is that you use a bread board (with a lot of parasitic capacitors)
and I use a vero-board with soldered components. I see no reason why my circuit does not charge the battery.
Groundloop.
I am using a bread board as well, I suppose I could make a circuit with some perf board and see if i have the same non results as well.
@hakware
can you post a picture of your circuit and an schematic?
Fausto.
@plengo
sure when I get home I will post a picture. Schematic is the same as your last post yesterday.
@ groundloop
Basically, we had this equation in one of our EE classes, for coil design.
using 10ga insulated wire, and a pair of caramic-ferrite rings (that we had stripped the wire off of)
we designed the coil to pick up the ambient 120v/60Hz (U.S.) EMF that was circulating throughout the building.
the rest of the circuit was just a resistor/cap to ground to balance the load and a square-wave rectifier to give us a D.C. output.
i think our final outcome was around 3.5v @ 150ma, hardly any power to speak of, but it lit the 2 led's and made the small fan turn.
It may have nothing to do with the device in the video, his is a lot smaller than ours, it just made me think of that the way he was holding it close to the wall when its working.
[EDIT] Deleted.
I think I figure out how this thing works and why the voltage "seams" to go up. Thanks to Groundloop, the gate of the mosfet is holding a capacitance which holds, as when we touch the gate, some voltage that eventually runs out. As it runs out the drive-source current diminish and current consumption goes down and the voltage goes up (because of the battery "ghost" voltage restoration) and we don't notice anything because those LEDs seams to not change in brightness since they are very good in showing light with very little current.
As the brightness goes down very little per mili-mili volt and it is not noticeble by human eyes but the meter is very sensitive and we only notice that therefore the phenomena seams to be that the battery is recharging itself up.
Now, with all the being said, aside from the fact that I am very piss at it, but hey, that science, inst it?!!! Unless someone come up with a real voltage gain with measurement with the battery disconnected from the device I think my explanation is the final explanation. All the tests that I have been doing, duplications and trials I concluded that thats the case.
Some of my tests demonstrates that with 5 IRF510 with only 2 I was able to replicate well the device, I think there is a huge difference in those parts concerning that capacitance in the gate and its leakage. Groundloop?
Anyone?
Well, at least I am happy that I figure out how to make a device that is definetly hell of efficient in keeping low self-consumption and good light control.
Fausto.
ps: [EDIT] but because I am very persistent and I am to make sure my theory is backup by data. I am now leaving connected the amp meter in series with all the LEDs and make notes of the amperage too, so that brightness of the LEDs will be irrelevant (only for entertainment). Voltage cross battery, current going through the LEDs are now my data. Let's hope for a better future.
[EDIT] Deleted.
Quote from: plengo on December 21, 2007, 08:32:08 PM
I think I figure out how this thing works and why the voltage "seams" to go up. Thanks to Groundloop, the gate of the mosfet is holding a capacitance which holds, as when we touch the gate, some voltage that eventually runs out. As it runs out the drive-source current diminish and current consumption goes down and the voltage goes up (because of the battery "ghost" voltage restoration) and we don't notice anything because those LEDs seams to not change in brightness since they are very good in showing light with very little current.
As the brightness goes down very little per mili-mili volt and it is not noticeble by human eyes but the meter is very sensitive and we only notice that therefore the phenomena seams to be that the battery is recharging itself up.
Now, with all the being said, aside from the fact that I am very piss at it, but hey, that science, inst it?!!! Unless someone come up with a real voltage gain with measurement with the battery disconnected from the device I think my explanation is the final explanation. All the tests that I have been doing, duplications and trials I concluded that thats the case.
Some of my tests demonstrates that with 5 IRF510 with only 2 I was able to replicate well the device, I think there is a huge difference in those parts concerning that capacitance in the gate and its leakage. Groundloop?
Anyone?
Well, at least I am happy that I figure out how to make a device that is definetly hell of efficient in keeping low self-consumption and good light control.
Fausto.
ps: [EDIT] but because I am very persistent and I am to make sure my theory is backup by data. I am now leaving connected the amp meter in series with all the LEDs and make notes of the amperage too, so that brightness of the LEDs will be irrelevant (only for entertainment). Voltage cross battery, current going through the LEDs are now my data. Let's hope for a better future.
@ Plengo
I am sorry. This too is what I was speaking of yesterday. No true charge of amperage. But it was fun!
Back to the trenches.....
Merry Christmas!
Bruce
@btentzer
and the worse is that I am still working on it measuring to have a proof that it does not work. That's my love for science. ::)
I still have another one that works a little bit different and is still running inside my Faraday's cage. It too can run for 500+ days or even more but that one there is not problem with the gate thing because there is not mosfet.
I guess, I am back to the next level onto the N.Tesla 4 Switch device. >:( ;)
Fausto.
[EDIT] Deleted.
Quote from: Groundloop on December 22, 2007, 02:32:10 AM
@Plengo,
I do not know where you got the +500 days from. If you run the LEDs ( I use 5 leds) at full strength then
you will draw approx. 100mA/h from the 160mA/h battery. The battery will then last for under two hours. In your case where you are drawing 0,2mA/h from a 160mA/h battery then you will drain the battery in approx. 800 hours. This is close to 33 days of run time.
Groundloop.
@ Groundloop
That was my bad, I had figured total battery wattage vs. discharge, not simply amp hour usage.
Hi @All,
Is this project busted? Quote from Myth Buster.
I am about to embark on a a new project related to overunity early next year.
This time it has nothing to do with magnets,coil or electronics.
I 've discoverd this site www.glopaint.com where they recently discovered Litroenergy - a new form of light source which doesn't require battery at all.It will produce light for 12 years without batteries as they say it's non radioactive.
My plan to purchase this early next year and stack solar cell (eg: on both side of A4 size product.
The cost as mention to light up 8 ? x 11 piece of plastic 1/8? thick is about .35 cents.
I believe this thing may have the potential to generate small amount of power to tricke charge my phone or laptop for many years .
I'm sure somebody or myself will start a new post over at overunity.com related to this project on litroenergy,no soldering or electronic experience may be required.
Quote for the day.Remember to keep information open unruled by EGO, it will benefit mankind in long run.
@Plengo
Keep your chin up.
I'd take 33 days over 500 days.... any day. So the goose is not cooked yet. Plus it is not really 33 days but the days it would take for the voltage to arrive at a non-usable level, so that would be less then 33 days.
Imagine all the 9 volts batteries that run devices that require 9 volts and once the battery goes below the usable level for that particular device, people just throw them away. What a waste.
@all
I have plugged my last circuit that lasted 9 minutes onto my super dead 9 volt battery plus a super dead 41,000 mfd 25 vdc capacitor, plugged them in parallel and put them on the circuit. Voltage is now up to 2.964, the LED is lit but very lightly, but voltage is going up. It has been over one day.
Again, this just shows the circuit is living. This is a good base to expand from and try so many other things so it's all great for me.
What if instead we send the LED output to the primary of another coil and the secondary back to the circuit input via a diode. Maybe that would loop the loop. Then put the LED on the negative of the primary and the positive of the secondary.
Question for the EEers. Is this circuit working with AC or DC. On another thread we had discussed already that DC to DC transformers do not exist because you need a an alternating current to create the secondary outputs, so this has to be AC, or is it DC. I mean I am measuring in DC 2.94 volts, and on AC there is only .3mV, so why does the transformer work, or why would a toroid work?
@btentzer
Nice post on ottos' new thread. Lit'z spread the word. I am preparing a post for there but I feel it is too long. I can't believe otto is posting so often these days.
800 hours is better, I can wait for that, after all it has been running now for at least a full week, so 3 more to go and a little bit more than what? If it runs for 40 days what does it prove? (no pun intended).
I am still testing some more and watching the voltage and current.
Is there anyone with a battery that was dead for a long time and once on the system would go up? I am about to test that too.
I am not 100% convinced of my own findings because my first version is running pretty good and the light intensity does not seam to change at all, it is very stable. Again it is subjective the perception of light intensity but after 7 days?!!! I will let that baby run for 40 days.
Only time will tell the whole story once I collect enough data and again I will publish it without concerns for my feelings, after all we are looking for the thruth and thats what science is based upon.
Fausto.
Hi Fausto, in your last Youtube video you showed the batteries that worked and some that did not work.
Please can you post here the exact specifications of the batteries, which work ?
Many thanks..
P.S. If the working batteries were really the nonrechargeable Zinc-Carbon type batteries, then I wonder if the effect is due to hitting the graphite electrode with high voltage pulses...
Batteries with graphite electrodes are always special with high voltage pulses...
[EDIT] Deleted.
@hartiberlin
Now it is running on the carbon zinc and it is still running good. I am totaly confused with this thing. I also tried before with the rechargeble 9v NIMH and it also woked and the final reached voltage was steady and with good charge. So basicaly the good one (let me call it - SRLC "Self Regulator LED Controller") was used with a 9v NIMH and success and now with the 9v Carbon Zinc.
Another replication did not work well with another 7.2v NIHM but seams to be working with another Zinc one.
The zinc one is: Powercell no. 1604P. Manufactured by Gold Peak Industries Limited in China. BTW. I dont think there is HV spikes on this device.
@Groundloop
I did exactly the same as you did and it will keep the gate open. The one that is running good (SRLC) is doing exactly that (edit: keeping the gate charged with an intial voltage and leaking until a certain level) and thats why I said a few posts before that it did not change the brightness in a perceptible way because it has been in the "minimun mode" for a few days already.
Fausto.
If there was a way to make the little oscillators spin it might be more interesting.
at this stage the fields are going back wards and fowards....like a normal transformer...thats why you get better results with a radio antenna.
Perhaps a larger coil/transformer outside the little ring would be a better way to pick up the timing pulse?
Of course this only would only spin up like a gyroscope if electrons had inertia......Im not sure that many could agree on that one way or the other.
Google ...cross field antenna...and bhibas...
@Groundloop,
super dumb question: If I have a pulsating device that is delivering about 40ma for 1/2 hour and it goes down to 39.5ma in the next 1/2 then 39ma in the next and so forth, how long will it deliver 150ma?
I have this new thing now that is delivering that from a 9v battery. I want to know how long it should run until all the power is gone. I really appreciate your knowledge.
[edit: I forgot to give the most important: 20hz frequency at 10/90 duty-cycle. Reason in on the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nii18Imr-A8]
Fausto.
Hi Fausto,
you don?t see the High Voltage spikes, cause they are "sucked in"by the battery capacitance.
If you would redraw your circuit like a normal circuit diagram with the coils at the collector
of the PNP transistor you would see it better.
The small spikes are still visible with your scope shots, but if you would
reconfigure your circuit you would blow your transistors with the spikes...
Maybe you did already blew your MOSFET with it and this is why only
this "destroyed" MOSFET from your 1st circuit works with it and not many more ??
@hartiberlin
very interesting hartiberlin. I managed to blow 3 mosfets. The ones that are running are the ones that I did not scrow up. So that explains why I got the mosfets and in 2 seconds they stopped working and I was wondering how is it possible with dead batteries with about 3v or less.
Thanks for the info.
Fausto.
Okay, I'm Pretty bummed out. After a long day putting out some fires at work I came home to check on my little units battery voltage and see how it was coming along. Yes the voltage on my unit was still holding out but the LED's are almost so dim that you cant see them. So, basically the batteries will hold a nice voltage but the current eventually gives out and does not perform any regenerative charging of the battery.
Was about the only thing I thought I had going today, now its not working out very well (sniffle)
Hi All,
if you would introduce a spark gap into the circuit
and use one electrode from gaphite material and
another dissimular metal electrode like copper
you could generate additional charges, that come into
your circuit and be able to charge up your batteries.
This would be the "external" source by using electron clustering
at the spark gap and direct conversion of carbon(conductive graphite)
to generate new electrons as charge carriers and produce external
energy, that comes into your circuit and will charge up your batteries.
Of course this spark gap has to be tuned for maximum
performance,but as in my Newman machine research you will
seeback spike currents, which will charge up your batteries,
if you have the right arc burning at the spark gap excited via
a high voltage BackEMF pulse making the spark jump.
Regards, Stefan.
P.S: I see, that Fausto is already doing something like this
with his burning relay contacts.
but if you will use better contact materials, like copper-graphite
the effect will bemore dramatic and a real charge up.
[EDIT] Deleted.
@Groundloop,
thank you. That's what I thought too. I just wanted to make sure with the words of an EE.
I am playing with my next proof of concept of the N.Telsa 4Switch (I see you are into that too on another thread) and I notice something very interesting. Pulsating with a relay I have a huge difference in the brightness of the LEDs (90+ LEDs now) and it will run for a much longer time. Off course with the relay I have the spark gaps (like Hartiberlin is mentioning) and it really makes a difference.
If anyone see my video they probably will laugh their as*$% of it. ;D (Hey proof of concept is just proof of concept, quick and dirty).
I had it running for hours delivering about 40ma until it dropped slowly to 30 then to 20 then to 10ma and still ran for 2 more hours with 4ma and I turned it off because I have to sleep and wife and baby dont like the tic-tac-tic-tac-toc, tic-tac-tic-tac-toc of the realys. Oh boy I am so ready to play with it today. My best performance speed is not what one would expect, not megahertz but mere 20hz (at least it confirms what Bedini said).
Fausto.
[EDIT] Deleted.
@EMDevices ,
So after a bit of pondering, I need some input from you guys when you have time whether after the holiday or whenever's clever. Im going to build a mini tpu and i'm wondering whats the best replication or set of specs thus far to start from. For input a cap or a bank of 5 5.5v supercaps filled to 1.8v full capicatiance and have it be able to power a few led's and have an output for usable power whether im trickle charging a nimh or some form of usable constant dc . The source of the 1.8v approx 2 ma is our earth battery config and they dont get used up... I kept telling myself man that isnt much juice then a new memeber of our fourm reminded me of a simple point .. the earth battery we have is not a battery of variable resistance its a sink that has a pure charge output so i figured charge a cap bank directly off of it since it has a very fast time constant for filling them and draw from that bank at whatever interval the micro tpu would need to do its thang... Thoughts and design specs would be appreciated and again this is EM's thread so i mean in no way to change the topic here i just figured i could round up a little help when you folks had some free time. Thanks again
Joe
[EDIT] Deleted.
@ Groundloop
Thanks for the quick reply i will pass the circuit along in the earth battery thread, I figured somethign along these lines would be my best chance to get a usable ammt of power from what alone is just a small unlimited potential... its all how fast ya sample it. Any suggestions are welcome and this can be replicated with just one peice of mg block and a carbon or graphite rod as well zinc and copper work too.
Thanks again
Joe
Hi All (first post here)
Please allow me to express my sincerest admiration to you all for all your continued quest for truth and discovery of OU for the betterment of mankind, I've read about and tried all kinds of different things over the years and so here is my first post about the closest to near perfect of an experiment I've tried over the years :)
@ Plengo - I put together your 4 Tesla switch circuit today and so far I am very impressed at the results!!!
I messed around with several different configurations and found the best light versus NO voltage loss, actually the battery is a used normal alkaline 9 Volt transistor down to 7.47 volts for a long time now, but the thing is that after messing around with different configurations and bringing it down to as low as 2 Volts it has sprung back up to 7 and stayed steady for the last 8 hours while maintaining the best light output that I could find without dropping the voltage over time :)
I'm using a BUZ271A Transistor and a coil from an older Bedini SSG (see pics) and got it to work without any fiddling around except for removing the resistor in place of the 2 X 1N4004 diodes back to back on the negative in a + - - + configuration between the coil and the negative feed to the diodes to get a better light off the first diode, oddly I had the same setup for the diodes on the positive side of the diodes but after changing configurations I couldn't get back to that setup without using a 1N4001 and a 1N4004 - + + - on the positive side of the diodes, seen that type of behavior in a couple of Bedini type experiments too, something about spitting the positive (gotta get it just right) ;)
I haven't added the diode setup to the first pic as I'm only working with mspaint here and didn't want to mess up your diagram any worse than I already have :) You should be able to see the diodes in the other pics.
Merry Christmas to all, may the OU Santa be as good to you as you all deserve and that's plenty lots of OU EXPERIMENT GOODIES that he can afford :o
Paul
Welcome to the forum Goat!
4Tesla
[EDIT] Deleted.
Hi Groundloop
I know it's hard to believe but I've double checked the circuit and it's as I drew it, the battery stayed stable for over 8 hours when I posted but in the morning I found it to be down to less than half the voltage down from 7.5 to 3.5V. I made some changes to the original led's in the circuits layout with only 2 LED from 5 plus a couple of changes in the other diodes in the positive and negative connections and it's been running for over 6 hours now at 3.5 Volts without going down, I'll let it run overnight again and see where its at tomorrow.
Don't ask me why but this circuit doesn't behave as it should, after reading some previous posts on the micro tpu where someone mentioned an LED that was installed backwards in the circuit and still worked, I've purposely switched diodes backwards to what they should be and the circuit still runs??? I think that there maybe some leakeage in these breadboards that allows things to happen that shouldn't or that there is something else going on.
I'm attaching a close up picture but unfortunately my camera is only a run of the mill and doesn't take very good close ups, I hope you can see the first pin (PIN 1) is connected to the positive of the battery, PIN 2 is going to the positive lead of the first diode which is also connected to the first side of the coil, that same coil conductor is then going to PIN 3 of the FET.
I hope that I'm not throwing more variables into this thread than was necessary as that was not my intention, I just had the FET lying around and no other PNP transistors to try so I took several approaches until it worked and after seeing run for such a long time I decided to show it in case it was something of interest.
Speaking of which, I'm off to get some more transistors tomorrow to try and properly replicate Plengo's original and later designs but this configuration sure is strange.
Thx, Paul
[EDIT] Deleted.
@ Groundloop
You were right, I took the FET out of the circuit and tested it and it's defective, guess all the reconfigurations led to an ESD discharge at some point, thought I had everything grounded ok but I guess I was wrong, one can never be to careful with FET's :P
Please accept my apology for wasting your time, and please feel free to delete my drawings and posts if you feel it's detracting from this thread.
PS: Funny thing though is that the 2 red 5mm LED's were still lit this morning and the voltage was still holding at 3.5 Volts. Unfortunately I'm down to my el cheapo VOM as seen in my previous post because my 30 year old Beckman RMS 3030 DMM bit the dust the other day so I can't cross check my readings using at least 2 different meters. Oh well off to get some more transistors and hopefully a decent DMM :)
Thx,
Paul
[EDIT] Deleted.
@all
Since my post on Page 39, Reply #582 on: December 22, 2007, located here
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3599.msg65692.html#msg65692
the circuit is still running straight and there is a little light on the LED. My multi-meter blew so I will take measurements soon. But when checking over the days, the voltage would go up to around 2.9 then down to around 2.5 then back up again to 2.9 and so on.
We had a pretty lengthy power failure and seeing that little light in that little led gave me hope. We're so dependent, it isn't funny.
Oh yeh, when I remove the transistor from the circuit, the led stops, put it back in and it starts again. I"m letting it run more as a curiosity.
Still waiting for my ferrites but I'm building something new to test with.
@wattsup
what we do for the love of science. Good job man.
Just for the fun here my pics to show what is happening. ;D
I could not get my house out of the grid (as I promissed to myself this year, BUT.....).
There is a saying in America (in Brazil too), strive for the moon so that you can get the top of the mountain (Marshal Silver).
Fausto.
@plengo
Is this original circuit which running since 20. december?
Happy New Year!
scorpio
Hi all, I have followed this thread for a while on my mobile phone!!! bad part is no pics or diagrams, good part is my knowledge of electronics. so being somewhat frustrated at times like no credit ,I seem to get by. I have now have use of a pc at librarys, this helps greatly!!. the original micro power TPU i have built from text definitions and have utilised every aspect of my thoughts but can only get the required power consumption down to 2.5 microamps. this is not an OU device but it is good for the brain. without returning BEMF the circuit drains around 60 microamps. I hope not to of resurected the dead but I wish to get involved with a TPU for OU and this website is MASSIVE.It may take a while for any responses from me until I can sort out a pc of my own!!
first post nerves but got here!!!
@scorpio
yes thats the schematics. This picture is my first duplication of the original. The original is also running good. So in total I have 3 running in each corner of the room.
@szaxx
welcome to the group. No need to be nervers.
Fausto.
HI JUST LIKE THIS
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJI6iW_qsk8
Hey guys, i got the thinking last night, and i want to drop this idea out here.
We should figure out a way to incorporate this principal
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3855.msg65809/boardseen.html#new (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3855.msg65809/boardseen.html#new)
into the TPU. This may just be the extra "nudge" we're looking for.
@ plengo @all
i have a replication that works :D
made of
96 meter of bifilar 0.6+1mm, 25cm inner circumference(900g!?)
2907 transistor and irf840 mosfet
(started)5 white LEDs and 2 red ones
after installing new battery last night, today morning i saw the battery on 6.29, so i took 2 white LEDs out, and sadenly it drived up to 6.31, i couldent beleave it, so i waited until now (2230)and it raized up to 7.05, so lets see what will be in the morning (looking for my camera)
HAPPY NEW YEAR
ilan
sorrydeletedcausednomorepurposewkr
Quote from: Goat on December 25, 2007, 10:05:13 PM
Hi Groundloop
I know it's hard to believe but I've double checked the circuit and it's as I drew it, the battery stayed stable for over 8 hours when I posted but in the morning I found it to be down to less than half the voltage down from 7.5 to 3.5V. I made some changes to the original led's in the circuits layout with only 2 LED from 5 plus a couple of changes in the other diodes in the positive and negative connections and it's been running for over 6 hours now at 3.5 Volts without going down, I'll let it run overnight again and see where its at tomorrow.
Don't ask me why but this circuit doesn't behave as it should, after reading some previous posts on the micro tpu where someone mentioned an LED that was installed backwards in the circuit and still worked, I've purposely switched diodes backwards to what they should be and the circuit still runs??? I think that there maybe some leakeage in these breadboards that allows things to happen that shouldn't or that there is something else going on.
I'm attaching a close up picture but unfortunately my camera is only a run of the mill and doesn't take very good close ups, I hope you can see the first pin (PIN 1) is connected to the positive of the battery, PIN 2 is going to the positive lead of the first diode which is also connected to the first side of the coil, that same coil conductor is then going to PIN 3 of the FET.
I hope that I'm not throwing more variables into this thread than was necessary as that was not my intention, I just had the FET lying around and no other PNP transistors to try so I took several approaches until it worked and after seeing run for such a long time I decided to show it in case it was something of interest.
Speaking of which, I'm off to get some more transistors tomorrow to try and properly replicate Plengo's original and later designs but this configuration sure is strange.
Thx, Paul
Well I think that the only reason for the led to run regardless of the direction it is inserted is becuase the output power is ac.
Tell me what you think, but for this to happen woulndt ground have to go positive. Which is possible, there is no diode on the cap energy source.
This thread seams to be dying BUT not my LEDs. Some more pictures of the same thing. Note the dates written down and brightness on some of them. They have been separeted and not touched by anything since I started posting about them.
I kind of even need the coil that is used by the brightest, but you know, I love science so I will keep it there running until it dies its hopefull death. I am as puzzled as you guys are why this babies are still running. I know, I need 30 more days (or 500+ hours), but If I get that I KNOW someone will say, not OU here, it is just a very powerfull battery.
I think there are two ways to look at things: one is the conventional, impossible to be broken and we ALL are right. THe second one is, jeee, this thing does not fit in the conventional, it must be a , a, a, let's say, a simple deviation.....
Well, I love science and the Thruth, so I will keep posting the pics until they either, DIE or LIVE. Let's see how long it will take. One of them is very bright I tell you. It is good to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night and see those little, tinny little lights making the room bright (and bothering my wife) for free (or almost free).
BTW, thank you guys for this wonderfull forum (Thank you Hartiberlin). I must be a little bit drunk now. ;D ;D ;D
Fausto.
ps: Each one is a different design. Only one has been published (the brightest).
@ Fausto:
I must commend you on your efforts. This is really amazing!!! Already, even if you don't make it to 500 hours, you have proven something. That one set of leds is very bright! If this turns out to be "just" an efficient battery circuit, it has to be, at this point, the most effiecient battery circuit I have ever even read or heard about. And, if still on after 500 hours....? Then someone needs to re-write some text books I think. Very well done indeed.
Bill
@Plengo,
!st of all, happy hoildays.
I'd got your circuit running with various MOSFETs but I the best result is from an IGBT. It's difficult to kick start it and I have to put my fingers on both the gate and drain in order to get it working.
I've also put 2 SSG coil in series and the results are nothing short of amazement esp. when the ampmeter is reading >0.05mA lighting up 5 LEDs. It's not lighting brightly but visible indoor. Best part of it all, the voltage did not drop, hovering around 8.45V about 15 hours ago.
Maybe it's the super low current comsumption of these LEDs??? (and these LEDs are the cheapest transparent 5mm ones; please read it as requiring higher current.......)
Yes, even though the thread may seem to be dying but I'm like you, continue to work at it. In fact, I'm "revisiting" EMDevice circuit since I have it in a separate breadboard, setting up groundloop's tesla switch replication, low current electrolysis, etc.....:-)
Below are cell phone pictures of my setup.
Cheers, cp
@sanmankl
That's so good to hear that I am not craizy. What you talked about in touching the mosfet to get it running I documented on this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXtafVgJW_M
Keep showing us your results, please.
Fausto.
@Plengo,
We are never crazy enough.... :D
People like us are the "trail-blazers", never take the beaten path and when others don't understand, they say you are crazy. We question the conventional and explore the unconventional.
I, for one don't care what others call me. Hopefully, let our effort/work speaks for itself when we achieve something.
Like Tesla say "the present belongs to them but the future is mine" ;D
I'll post my results when I have achieve sufficient run time.
Cheers, cp
sorrydeletedcausednomorepurposewkr
[EDIT] Deleted.
Well mine is still dimly lit since Dec 22nd 2007. And voltage goes up and down as usual.
I just got my order of torroids, small ones, big ones and lots of wire gauges. I think I will get another breadboard so I can leave my present system in place and try other configs.
Not posting does not mean a dead thread. By the way this circuit works, we can say nothing is ever really dead.
Quote from: Groundloop on January 05, 2008, 07:06:39 AM
@Newton2,
You are 100% right about semiconductors that works as soler panels. I discovered that back in 1980.
Attached is a image of the output from 100 IR diodes. 10 diodes in series is connected to 10 rows.
This image is taken in normal indoor lightning.
Groundloop.
@all,
I get approx 1.1 volt off my 10mm (the big one) Green LED. Reading taken in heavy overcast sky. This fact is well known amongst solar tracker builders.
Take a look at this. http://www.redrok.com/electron.htm#led3x
Cheers, cp
@ all,
Here's the latest result of my run.
Plengo's circuit. 6 White LEDs, 1 Green, 1 Yellow. IGBT is a IRG4PC50U (Ultra Fast IGBT. Datasheet avail. from www.datasheetcatalog.com). PNP is a 2N3907. Battery is a GP 9V NMh rechargeable rated at 170mAh. Single SSG coil. It's a 150 feet bifilar #18 and 19.
Battery is charged and first measurement is at 9.81V. Voltage drops to 8.99V upon connection to circuit. Amp draw is at 0.3mA. 5 White LEDs are lighted up but dim (shines greenish tint).
6 hours and still running, voltage remains at steady 8.99V (no flucuation).
In other tests, I changed the MOSFETs to IRF510, IRF530, IRF240, FQB50N06 and all show voltage drop. So far with IGBT, voltage remains at 8.99V.
Let's see if the voltage remains steady, dip or rises.....
Will keep all posted.
Cheers, cp
@ All,
Here's my test results.
After 12 hours, the voltage drops down to 8.98 from the start voltage (with load) of 8.99. The amp consumption remains steady at 0.2mA. Added another SSG coil (identical to the first) in series and the result is similar i.e. 0.01 volt drop after 6 hours.
Don't know what it proves but I guess I have to look at the circuit from afresh?
Cheers, cp
Nice work guys, glad to see you're exploring.
I'm curious to see how long the Fausto's experiment will last. One 9V battery that just keeps going and going!! I understand you started with a "discharged" battery, is that right?
EM
@EMdevices
I have 3 running. One started at 9.17v, the other at 5.21v and the last at 7.66v. All 9v NIMH. They are still running good.
The one that started with 9.17 now is around 7.85 but it does not change at all. Good brightness and I have no idea the current consuption. The one with 7.66v is now using only 0.1ma and started at 1ma. I would say the brightness diminished a little bit but not much very stable so far. The third is inside a faraday cage and is a different design then the others.
I tried to upload pics but the site is not permitting.
Fausto.
@ Plengo,
Last night, I changed the coil a bit.
I'm using 60 feet of "garden wire" which is made of iron. It's sold in a nice coiled up bundle and I use that to replace the SSG coil (connecting to the C and E of the PNP) and I've got 2 x 5mm red led lit up. There's another 5mm blue led connected in series to the 2 red ones. All three are dimly lit up. Amp reading taken from the 9V battery is 0.005mA. Reading done off a 1mA meter. It's almost no amp at all but the leds are lit.
It's been running for about 15 hours now without any drop in voltage (starting at 9.40V and it's still 9.40V now.
Maybe somebody like you can explain this? I just don't know what to make out of this circuit?
Regards, cp
@sanmankl
Oh boy. At that current level (0.005ma??) it should run "forever". No I can not explain it. I wrote my theory about it a few posts ago where the capacitance of the mosfet gate keeps it open and slowly diminish in level as time passes and as it does that the current between the source and drive goes so small and the LED goes down in brightness. What I dont understand still is why my batteries after so long running (since december 14) and the voltage seams to not be used up at all. It goes up and down. That's is the strangest thing for me.
May be is some chemical reaction in the battery that allows it to run so well for so long but eventually it will die (assumptions made here).
It could be that the coil is picking up some extra "energy" from the air/space where it sill feed slowly and "smally" (if that word exists) to the overall battery energy level. That's why I also have one running inside a Faraday's cage.
What is interesting is that if you remove the transistor and just connect things directly it will not work and if you connect the battery directly to the LED it will eventually die a slow death but it will die (I did that).
Fausto.
Is somebody familiar with this:
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg100.imageshack.us%2Fimg100%2F9128%2Fringpowergeneratorlp1.th.png&hash=2397506f6b5251e1bf24424bcfa54aa40e950e30)
Source: http://img100.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ringpowergeneratorlp1.png
Can this produce overunity ??? ::)
@Plengo,
What I think I should do is to hard solder the circuit (my breadboard is not in it's best health after poking it with #20 wires) and there could be intermittent contact problems.
Once done, I'll set the circuit to run and see how long does it last? I'll set it in a corner and move on to Groundloop tesla switch....:-)
Cheers and thanks for introducing this fun circuit....:-)
cp
sorrydeletedcausednomorepurposewkr
Is anyone building it on a bigger scale ??
@all
Ive been playing with a joule thief circuit and had a weird encounter , i figured you guys might help me answer it. After building it with a small toroid and a 2n3904 transistor i was hooking things up on my bread board and letting it run 2 led's i accidentally got my toroid too close to a neo magnet and the magnet flung to it... now the cool part is here when i position the magnet at the top of the toroid or a steel mouse ball with magnet on the other side to the top of the toroid my visible light increases.. ??? ??? ???
Why would sticking a magnet or a steel ball with a magnet on the toroid of a joule thief make my led's brighter.
Now there was a sweet spot for this no real science i just moved the thing till it got brightest then continued to let it go for 10 mins and put the magnet back on to check again .. every time the magnet makes it brighter( not more than the prior attempt but still greater than normal) these two led's have been running all night on a dead aa that started at .6v and is at .5 v now .. the led's aren't real bright anymore but i still can do the magnet test and see an increase in luminosity. As well the amperage draw is somewheres between 20 and 30 ma and doesn't change noticeably with the magnet or not. Any idea to why that would happen folks or if it could be used to help something... I envision that the somehow the toroid is now interacting with the magnet during its kick back and possibly breaking the feild lines on its own from the toroids back and forth movement.. just a thought but i would like to know if anyone here had any thoughts. Thanks again folks
Joe
@Localjoe
Good find. I would say the cause of this is the fact that you are running at such a low voltage, and the leds are so dim, that the effect from the magnet "is" noticable. If you were running this at let's say 4-6 volts, the LED would be brighter to start with and the magnet, although it would provide the same effect, would not be noticed.
This is what I meant by having such a great circuit like this that is sensitive enough to show differences in the slightest variances that would be very hard or impossible to see at the higher voltages.
I got my second breadboard cause I don't want to touch my current build that has been running since Dec 22. This is not even with a toroid but a small isolated transformer I found.
Quote from: Localjoe on January 12, 2008, 01:44:20 PM
@all
....... i accidentally got my toroid too close to a neo magnet and the magnet flung to it... now the cool part is here when i position the magnet at the top of the toroid or a steel mouse ball with magnet on the other side to the top of the toroid my visible light increases.. ??? ??? ???
Why would sticking a magnet or a steel ball with a magnet on the toroid of a joule thief make my led's brighter.
@Localjoe
The magnet will increase the "Q" factor and induction of the toroid which increases the inductive reactance of the drive/output coils, which in turn increases the Collapsing EMF voltage output of the drive coil and consequent induced voltage of the output coil. With increased inductive reactance, there should also be a very minute decrease in current consumption. You may not notice this however as you are driving the coil with very low voltage and current as it is. But a sensitive and accurate meter set in the micro-amp scale will probably show this slight reduction in consumption.
Cheers from the Toad who Hops :)
@sanmankl
Please, when you do in PCB post a picture for us. I am glad you like the little toy. It is fun for me too.
And just for the fun, some still running pictures...
Fausto.
Quote from: plengo on January 13, 2008, 12:41:17 AM
@sanmankl
Please, when you do in PCB post a picture for us. I am glad you like the little toy. It is fun for me too.
And just for the fun, some still running pictures...
Fausto.
Hi Plengo...
Are you planning to build a bigger version ?? Scaled up for a normal lightbulb...
The topis of this thread is "Self Running Micro TPU, with closed loop."
But I can't see any signs of successfully closed loop TPU:s here.
I'm afraid all of you guys are just running your leds at a very narrow duty cycle and this
requires very low current. But eventually all of your batteries or capacitors are getting drained.
It's more obvious on a capacitor than a battery. It seems to me that the Micro TPU is nothing
more than a self oscillating circuit at very low power consumption.
Perhaps I'm wrong here, but I belive you could accomplish the same timeframe using a
self oscillating 74HC14 logic inverter set to very short duty cycle.
@Ergo
I know where i was on Christmas do you? ;) :D
@wattsup and hoptoad
Thanks for the quick replies and the interest. Ive learned too many times not to pass by the simplest of observations.
Joe
Here's an idea, what if you could incorporate a Crystal Radio type setup
to the circuit? Crystal radios have some power but require no input power.
No batteries or anything. And it's tunable. Maybe you can step up the power
using the toroid's your already using. An adjustable capacitor might also work
in tuning in the devices resonant frequency?
Just a couple of thoughts.
Brad
Its good that it works. But you'll never know until you make a scaled up version, just sufficient to rule out ambient EM pickups.
There is enough EM pollution to light an LED in a city. Just hold the leads of a scope with bare hands and watch the screen....
I'm hopeful :)
And for keeping the progress of this baby....
@newton2
very interesting thoughts newton2. Keep bringing them. I see also that your English has been improving somehow!!! Thank you!
Fausto.
Quote from: Uri on January 11, 2008, 11:36:26 AM
Is somebody familiar with this:
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg100.imageshack.us%2Fimg100%2F9128%2Fringpowergeneratorlp1.th.png&hash=2397506f6b5251e1bf24424bcfa54aa40e950e30)
Source: http://img100.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ringpowergeneratorlp1.png
Can this produce overunity ??? ::)
This is a very interesting picture, and i think that it can be someting like SM TPU.
If you have a accelerating charge, it radiates. With a correct shape of radiation pattern around, in a nested, cylindrical form, it can collect charges from the environment.It is one kind of trap, to collect charges.
Esa
sorrydeletedcausednomorepurposewkr
Hi,
I have been keeping track of this topic for some time now.
I wonder if there is remote possibility that the current circuit might be getting the
additional power from any form of available light source via LED.
I understand this type of circuit is able to power led even with below 1 volt supply.
The only way to find this out is coat the top of led with dark marker,hence blocking out any direct incoming light to led reflector.Led monitoring might be possible from side.
I've a made a strange discovery recently.I discovered that i'm able to get 1.5V from single IR transmitter(yep transmitter (standalone) strangely i get much lower voltage output with IR receiver) when expose directly under the sun.In the sun i was able to charge 100uf capacitor to 1.5v in around 15seconds.
(I am very sure i am able to charge the capacitor much quicker if i were to connect more IR or maybe LED in parallel)
In the shade with i was able to obtain around 0.9v from IR transmitter.
I'm not sure if this simple discovery could debunk or assist current TPU project.
@all
Well my miniTPU started on Dec 22nd is now dead. Will try other formats, and do some other toroid winds with my new stock on hand.
Also found a guy selling these transistors on ebay and am wondering if they could have some use in the miniTPU set-up.
http://cgi.ebay.ca/Philips-BFR96S-3GHz-NPN-RF-Amp-Osc-Transistor-Qty-6_W0QQitemZ370016638478QQihZ024QQcategoryZ105799QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
The same seller is selling this huge toroid core;
http://cgi.ebay.ca/T520-2-Iron-Powder-Toroid-For-the-Ultimate-HF-Balun_W0QQitemZ110216913439QQihZ001QQcategoryZ4672QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Plus on the same page there are some great links to toroid info. I am sure most of the real EEers here would find some great insight and ideas.
I will also be working on Erfinders challenge. Battery, relays, transformer, diodes, low EE is right up my alley. Thanks Erf. I will get all of the missing parts today and stat to play.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3972.msg73403.html#msg73403
There are so many things to work on and learn.
sorrydeletedcausednomorepurposewkr
@newton2
Thanks for your posting this information. So maybe those transistors are good to buy and test with.
Please excuse all of us if we may have not understood all your comments as it is in a style of writing that is not regular so our brains have to adjust to catch your meanings. That's OK. You are better off saying something important then not saying it. With all due respect I would like to ask you a delicate question which you do not have to answer. Here goes. Are you having a condition of mild Autism as your style of writing is very close to that of some autistic persons having great specific knowledges and discussing via computer in the same type of style. Sorry for the question but I just had to know. It does not matter anyways.
Regarding RFI and other influences in my home office where I do my thing, yes there is a TV usually always on. I can see the screen sometimes showing static when I do tests on certain things. Also I have a telephone, a cell phone, a computer, a fan blowing air out of my office, etc. I realize that some of these may contribute to erroneous OU observations, but when I need to really confirm something, I will always turn all electrical devices off before doing any other measurements. I have also made myself a long static sensor that I connect to my scope to make sure there is no outside influence when I do such checks. Otherwise we would have to work in lead lined rooms.
All the best.
@newton2
yes, thank you newton2. Very interesting observations and poinst about the anoumalies possibly being from external factors that are considered "non existent" in some circles that could possibly explain some of our findings.
@wattsup
I was curious too and since you asked newton2 about his writtings, I also will kindly ask: Would you newton2, be using a translator by any chance?
@all
just a refresher, this thread is really about EMdevices on the mini-TPU with his original device and my device was just a conicidence in some aspects which later i embedded here and members asked not to go to another thread. So we really have here 2 things going on somehow related but not really.
My devices are going down in voltage but interestingly enough extremelly slowly and still running so far.
Fausto.
sorrydeletedcausednomorepurposewkr
:)Hello All Honoured Profiles of this long going on continued Discussion !
Might I kindly just mention this LINK to a SURPLUS-DMM-SAlesPLace :
http://www.multimeterwarehouse.com/vc9808f.htm
well-then , might so happen , that You allready since long knew about such "Sites"
and more "Sites" else ! Then just I kindly mentioned such a LINK !
Well-then, yesterday I got suddenly even-more-busy having even-more-extra-Science-Works to should "do"..........
thus I have to write only this brief text !
WKR & have All Yourselves a nice Day and Weekend & fruitfull Results from all of Your various many hardlabored Doings/Experiments !
And my Thanks about Your respective hardlabored aimings for getting Results in
Theories and Experiments !
Your Science/Technics Skills are most needed for gaining more Knowledges to The Mankind ! ;)
The schematic please !
@Caracole
Welcome to the board.
You should maybe modify your post and expand on exactly what you mean by "the schematic please!".
@newton2
Thanks for clarifying the basis for your writing style. It is a bit harder for people to understand though and maybe there is a midway between this since I know from what you are saying that you have more to offer us here, it would be a pity if such information was lost based on writing style. When we give information or state things, it is not for the writer to understand, but for the reader, so usually, we are writing in a way for the reader. In any case, whatever churns the butter is alright I guess.
As for the LEDS attracting energy into themselves, Plengo had a circuit that was totally covered with an aluminum sheeting to minimize such potential.
Since I saw my name here again, some status of the lights:
They are almost all dead. Very fainty light is there.
I think, since the batteries are not dead, this device proved itself to be a very efficient one but nothing special.
Sorry for the bad news, but that's what science is all about, experimentation, observation and repitability. Theories will come and go and the ones that stands are the closest to perceived reality.
I think I can conclude this one experiment saying that it does not produce any OU or extra energy from anywhere. The circuit demonstrated to be very efficient in controlling the amount of energy is transmited to the LEDs and nothing else.
Fausto.
ps: Note the amout of current going into the LEDs (almost 0 ma) and they are still lit. Very impressive LEDs indeed.
@plengo,
still seems, damn, impressive to me!!!!! not that counts for anything!!!
lol
sam
ps: keep up the good work. don't think people aren't watching. some of us are just not on this level yet.
Quote from: plengo on February 02, 2008, 09:21:23 PM
... I can conclude this one experiment ... does not produce any OU ... - Fausto.
Fausto,
Excellent study. I'd be interested in knowing if your Circuit can re-charge batteries.
- Schpankme
:)Hello All You Honoured Profiles !
THanks this continued for long going on Discussion including the Original interesting Topic?s Theme plus the lots of interesting Replies !
Thanks about Your various interesting important contributions to such necessary Forums-Discussions !
I suppose , that You allready know about this WebSite of FREE-ELECTRONICAL-COMPONENTES-Informations/Specifications-DATA-Sheets :
*************************************************************
***
*** http://www.datasheets4u.com
***
**************************************************************
WKR & have All Yourselves a nice Day and Weekend & fruitfull Results from Your respective various many hardlabored Science/Technics Experiments and Doings !
PS:
perhaps I will be back here in this interesting Discussion of Original interesting Topic?s Theme...perhaps NOT....
for I have to busily-prepare for Public-Announcing some of my mere Results !
So for present : Adieu and Farewell , maybe WE will meet some Time in Some Place in some WebForum or in some Science/Technics-Seminarium or even in some Public-TV-Channel-Program!
;)
@Schpankme
that's the million dollar question. What I have observed on my circuit is that the battery fluctuates back and forth until it just run down. Now, one of my devices has a 6v left and started at 9.17v (or around that). Somehow the 6v is not enough anylonger to light up the LED very brightly, but a new battery at 6v would. So somehow the battery "energy" has changed ( I know it is craizy what I am saying, but I can not think of something else to explain that).
The same is happening with my second running device which shows the current (see some pictures of previous posts) being used by the LEDs and it is now about less than 0.1ma and the LEDs are still lit. Very faintly but still there. The battery voltage is around 5v and I simply can not make, with this battery, the circuit to light the LEDs more brightly than it is. A new battery of 5v would light them up very bright. So I am really puzzled.
Aside from all that, I dont think this is really charging the batteries up but it is not working as normal either. I did an experiment in parallel to this one using just a battery and LEDs and the battery simply ran down to 1v and that was it.
I tested to see if these LEDs I am using generate energy under strong light (light a solar cell) and it did not. I do see a relationship in the brightness of the LEDS and the size of the coil. Bigger the coil, brighter and the LEDs are but they all run down in an equivalent manner.
I think these LEDs have some unique properties that helps to this behavior which older LEDs don't.
I which a lot more people would build this babies and let them run in the corner of a room and see how long it will take for them to go down and how they go down.
Fausto.
Thank you for those experiments Fausto, sorry to see the lights go out.
These white LEDs are so efficient.Ã, I got a pair recently and was amazed they lit up from 6 volts with a 1M ohm resistor in series,Ã, that's close to 5 uAmps, wow.Ã,Â
So, pulling very little power to light an effiecient LED, will make a battery last a long time.
To further extend the battery life, the LED can be Pulsed,Ã, and to the eye it will seem like its continuous lighting (make sure frequency is high enough).Ã, My bike light does that, and it has lasted for years now with moderate use in the evenings. Your experiment does the same, pulsing the LEDs fast enough so the eye can't tell the difference.
Regarding batteries,Ã, Ã, a 6V charged vs a 6V discharged battery is quite obvious when you try to draw current from it, so that should not surprise you.Ã, Even some what discharged batteries will still have enough current sourcing capacity.Ã, But when the battery can't even light an LED, you know it's hosedÃ, !!Ã, LOLÃ, Ã, :D
EM
Hey EM what did become of your micro tpu?
If you ask me these things are just LC noise fiters....you will find them in any power supply.
They look exactly the same too.
Offcoure they have to be placed inside the collector otherwise they would respond to all the magnetic and mind blowing hash radio outside the ring.
He swipes with magnets just to let us think these things have to do something with the RRFF or RMF.
I have just finished my new tube power supply and it utilizes 6 of these things.
Ive started with orange drops and a .47 filter on to orange drops and a .33 filter on to more orange drops and a .22 filter and then on to the the SS bridge with orange drops and from there on to the 4 plates of two 5u4's in paralell to the power caps ;D
M.
I think you're right marco, some sort of filter of maybe even a 1:1 Dc blocking isolation transformer.
Carefull with all that high voltage man :)
EM
Hey i love that high voltage..the higher the better :D
At particular levels it makes the air conduct and the ionization is healthy :)
It does something to the charge of dust paticles so they fall towards the ground or something like that.
Can't be bad.
M.
@marco and emdevices
i was reading this patent midly realated to what your doing and thougt hey ... this is sort of along those lines. worth a quick read :)
wow, reread the patent title again if you haven't got it,Ã, LOL.
Reducing attenuation,Ã, or pharsed another way,Ã, ADDING GAIN.Ã, [edit: nah, I checked it out and it just reduces the lossyness of the toroid, but it's still lossy]
I got to check that out.Ã, looks very interesting the way it's wound
thanks Local joe
EM
Here ya go EMDevices read the second one.. i posted too thats a prior to this patent
@localjoe
Good catch ;)
This is pure Tesla ----- the undampened wave, even more interesting is the date- june 19, 1900. 1900 !! 108 years ago they understood how to do this -- something we have yet to understand, simply amazing ;D.
Today I finally decided to terminate the so long since December 2007 test. The picture below is with the battery (the same one off course) BYPASSING the circuit showing what was left as energy after a long run with the LEDs being so dim.
Interesting is that there still enough energy left to run it for a little awhile.
Fausto.
ps: sorry the battery is behind the circuit. Not trying to cheat here :-[
@plengo
Which type of battery have you used ?
The led always turned on or pulsating, if pulsating with which frequency ?
is it possible to see the circuit scheme, and to know the type of used wrapping ?
best regard
Adriano
@Adriano,
Hello Adriano. To be honest dont bother about this circuit. There is nothing new or interesting here. I only posted the pics just for the completness of the whole experiment so others can see the end results even though they were not really what we want.
Schematics here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3599.msg65327.html#msg65327
Explanation of the behavior here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3599.msg65604.html#msg65604
But, if you experiment, please post pictures too and the results.
Fausto.
Hey guys I am new here and indeed new to this whole thing....
I only have higher grade physics behind me and I am rusty at that... However it would seem that permanent magnets are in use when looking at S Mark's devices see link below..
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=333661567309752927&q=free+energy+Steven+Mark+solid+state+4&total=10&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=333661567309752927&q=free+energy+Steven+Mark+solid+state+4&total=10&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0)
Also do you think it is a good idea to be introducing DC current in to the circuit as that as far as I can see would be changing the whole behavior you are looking to create.
Again if none of this makes sense it would not surprise me this is just an observation... however. In order to get the "kicks" you need AC (correct?) and you mimic a DC current by using diodes to allow one way traffic. If you insert a DC current you remove the very thing you need to get the kicks. Would it not be safe to assume you would need to convert the DC current to AC B4 introducing it to the circuit? i.e an inverter
Also would it be a good idea to insert a variable 555 timing chip in b4 it hits the inverter?
Also I believe the device below could help you to amplify your signal...
Graham Gunderson?s Solid-State Electric Generator shown in US Patent Application 2006/0163971 A1 of 27th July 2006.
This can be found here....
http://www.panaceauniversity.org/Chapter3
Well thats my 2 cents for now,
ps
However I would apreciate a full and detailed schematic of everything so far including an equipment list, if some one could make me an idiots how too I would be very grateful...
Loving all your work and have my fingers crossed for an energy independent world. ;D
also guys did you know theres a dude on ebay selling these things? is he for real? If so we could maybe just ask him? lol naive statement maybe.
again just to reinforce the above if you get the 555 timing chip to hit on and off at 5000 - 6000 times per second, send tht signal in to the inverter and then in to your circuit?
I am only making guesses here at some thing I know little about but that seems like the logical thing to do to me. Maybe this bridge has already been crossed.
I did note that you stated your LED's increased in brightness with a magnet near by... maybe try sticking magnets in there at 90 degrees to each other like in the google vid I linked to above.
Sorry if everything I have said makes no sense. lol
that video is interesting, im curious as to what is in that box under the device-coil
as far as i know, noone else is reporting 91v @ 1.3Amps from this type of device?
but he clearly lit those 2 lamps, and they appear to be as bright or brighter than they were in the wall socket. 120W out of nowhere is impressive indeeed.
@spacemonkeyjazz
could you share the link to where in ebay they are selling this?
Fausto.
As requested the ebay link is
http://cgi.ebay.com/FREE-ENERGY-DEVICE-120-VOLT-ENERGY-FROM-MID-AIR_W0QQitemZ110225195067QQihZ001QQcategoryZ3188QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/FREE-ENERGY-DEVICE-120-VOLT-ENERGY-FROM-MID-AIR_W0QQitemZ110225195067QQihZ001QQcategoryZ3188QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
So what do u guys think about using an ac input instead? also have you made the voltage amplifier as even this would be a great thing. check out my previous links on the last page for patent info.
A regular con man. Please don't post crap on here. I am sure EM will give you a piece of his mind too when he reads the above scam.
have any of you got his plans? does it even work?
I think think he is on to something... look at the iron ferite device patent I posted on the previous page
spacemonkyjazz, looks like you already found the other thread where this is discussed. Why not ask your questions there? Or better yet, read what was posted. You may find your answer.
EM
yeh I was wondering if you guys had seen it etc and what the hell is he actually selling?
so what do you think of this below
Graham Gunderson?s Solid-State Electric Generator shown in US Patent Application 2006/0163971 A1 of 27th July 2006.
This can be found here....
http://www.panaceauniversity.org/Chapter3
spacemonkyjazz,Ã, It looks like this is now discussed over here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4110.0.html
Personaly, I don't think the Gundersol patent reflects what SM has done.Ã, Have you watched the videos?Ã, It should be obvious they're two different devices.
EM
@spacemonkeyjazz
oh, I know that con. I bought it and it is totally a BS. The coil needs a lamp wire going throwgh it while the lamp IS RUNNING. In other words it is only a toroid coil reusing energy from a running lamp via magnetic induction. Off course as soon as you put a load on the coil you are going to use more energy from the power feeding the lamp.
If you look carefully the video you will see that there is a black wire with 2 turns inside the toroid, that's the lamp wire.
Beside, his "plans" were in 4 pages print out with capital letters, bad English and no way you can rebuild the thing on his instructions. It is an absolute scam.
I would even advice that you to remove the link from the thread and post something in place explaining the edit.
Fausto.
hi, all
This is a my first experiment, build charging alkaline battery 1.5 V with source battery only 1.2V Nimh battery 900mAh. I don't understand why charging battery can be more voltage than source battery. Where did come from ?
zon
Note: if you take out the charging battery, the led will on (lid on)
(sorry for my poor english)
Tonight i have done my replication of Mircro TPU, and it works! I've recorded video, you can see it on youtube, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xav6hfAD3zg
i used 2 MegOhm (2 x 1MOhm) Resistance, ~1 microFarad (directly 920-927 nF). Impulses flashing 2-3 times per second (2-3 Hz)
Sheme from this topic. This work took about 3 hours :) Thank You for Schematics, and sorry for my English )
По - РуÑÑки было бы проще :D
Quote from: Starlight on January 14, 2010, 07:08:50 PM
По - РуÑÑки было бы проще :D
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Quote from: Starlight on January 14, 2010, 07:08:50 PM
Tonight i have done my replication of Mircro TPU, and it works! I've recorded video, you can see it on youtube, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xav6hfAD3zg
i used 2 MegOhm (2 x 1MOhm) Resistance, ~1 microFarad (directly 920-927 nF). Impulses flashing 2-3 times per second (2-3 Hz)
Sheme from this topic. This work took about 3 hours :) Thank You for Schematics, and sorry for my English )
По - РуÑÑки было бы проще :D
Congratulations on your working build! It is one of the most efficient circuits that I know of and so simple. Very fun project.
4Tesla
It seems that Im older and older and blinder and blinder.....what was lighted in the video??? Sorry I cant figure it out!
Otto
EMDevices,
Good work bringing electricity to life !!! Looking forward to seeing the schematics for what you've done so far, and more importantly, I'm looking forward to see what all these brilliant minds will come up with once they find out how you did it ! ;)
EMDevices,
How about changing your battery to a small Li-Ion battery,(it will charge easier than a standard lead acid type) and surroud the led with minature photo voltaic cell to send the led's pulses back into the circuit or back to the battery.
EMDevices,
Oh !! Iforgot, you're not using batteries! My Bad !!! :P
why no one work on this ? i sow one man run 100W lamp on this device for month.