Hello,
It has been awhile since I have posted on this forum. I'm going to try to replicate s1r's water explosion engine. For some reason it seemed to make sense to me, now I may be completely wrong and this may not work but so far NO ONE has actually used an ENGINE to try this on. Bench tests will not work here. So, I have a carburettor straight six chevy (I think) down at a junkyard that the junkyard owner will pull out for me for 100$, they will make sure it rolls over and fires so I won't have to worry about getting a dead engine.
The basic plan is to get this engine running on gasoline, disconnect the gas tank, start it to remove the gasoline from the carb, replace the plugs with those Direct Hits that Ironhead recommends, turn it over, and adjust the timing until it fires. Unlike HHO, where you split the water, instead the water is being directly fed into the engine via the carb jets.
I will post pictures and (maybe) video if I can to show once and for all if this system can work! (I think it will) If it works, maybe add some HHO to the mix and see if that helps? Heh, but that is for much later. Pics and videos should come once I get the engine.
Thanks for reading and I hope I can get this thing working!!
KICK ASS! I am so into this! Looking forward to your progress!
HairBear
You can also try to make your own Firestorm plug using cheap sparkplug and save some money :)
Here's a little anecdote:
A few years back, I was driving from Chicago to Minneapolis in a car with a failing head gasket. Coolant was being consumed at a high rate-- basically it was leaking into the cylinders and going out the tailpipe. I must have gone through about 15 gal. of distilled water on that trip. Here's the thing-- I got over 45 miles per gallon of gas for the trip-- in a car that was lucky to get 20 mpg before! Somehow, the water leaking into the engine dramatically improved its efficiency-- in fact, it was more than doubled. I always wondered about exactly how this worked.
Heh, yeah to my knowledge I don't think anyone here has tried this system on the forum here, except maybe Ironhead, because he's like the HHO god lol. Well, I hope to get a video of the engine this weekend so sit tight! =D If not at least a picture or two, or five. =D
-Brian
well it sounds quite similar to the water-carburator that can use either water vapour directly injected into the cylinders, or has the exhaust gases bubble through water and the resulting vapour mix pumped into the cylinders... Drastic fuel efficiency increase...
You may want to look at Jean Naudins pages on that stuff:
http://bingofuel.online.fr/bingofuel/index.htm (look at the "PMC" stuff, not so much the "bingofuel" stuff)
Another interesting read may be http://members.tripod.com/~anon99/water_engine/index2.html,
although that is not directly related to what you seem to be talking about...
Brilliant,
a hybrid gas/steam engine. Lol.
And why not? If you could use the waste heat to boil water.
Quote from: zerotensor on January 23, 2008, 09:30:05 PM
Here's a little anecdote:
A few years back, I was driving from Chicago to Minneapolis in a car with a failing head gasket. Coolant was being consumed at a high rate-- basically it was leaking into the cylinders and going out the tailpipe. I must have gone through about 15 gal. of distilled water on that trip. Here's the thing-- I got over 45 miles per gallon of gas for the trip-- in a car that was lucky to get 20 mpg before! Somehow, the water leaking into the engine dramatically improved its efficiency-- in fact, it was more than doubled. I always wondered about exactly how this worked.
I don't think it is so much a steam engine, I think it has more to do with the fact that hydrocarbons burn,
and waste hydrocarbons from the fuel may still be present in the cylinders, they can evaporate along with some of the water,
and that vapour can be burnt in the cylinders again...
That's why I pointed toward that water-vapour&exhaust-gas carburator...
There is a lot of s1r9a9m9's own discussion and drawings here:
http://www.panaceauniversity.org/D13.pdf
Paul.
Due to my parents not letting me go over and look at the engine because of inclement weather, I'll have to delay getting the engine by another damn week. Shit. I really wanna get this thing going NOW, but it never goes to plan anyway. Should have expected that. Next week though, actually it may even be delayed AGAIN because my bank account is running dry (gas). I'll probably end up having to wait another TWO weeks for my next paycheck, maybe in the meantime I'll get a camera so I can take pictures. Anyone got a crappy video camera they're willing to lend me? =D
Sorry guys, next two weeks should be better.
Paul, it looks like they do not have the file anymore for some reason. Huh, oh well, it basically boils down to a bigger spark and retarded timing. Can't wait to get that damn engine.
I am very interested in your results. I have been wanting to try it my self but I dont have a good donor engine right now, and am a little financialy strapped. I also had an idea of passing highly atomized water through an AC electrical arc. This could be done by using an ac converter and setting up two, or more electrodes, screens or plates under the carb to create an arc and then pass the water through and see if it would convert to HHO and then get draw int the engine. Would be neet if it worked because it would be very easy to convert existing vehicles.
Good luck, cant wait for your results.
Yes it would, very lost cost and simple. Let's hope it works. I myself am a little strapped for cash so my engine test will have to wait. I haven't even picked up the engine yet, once I do I'll post some pictures for all of you and a video if I can find a camcorder.
Quote from: Super God on January 28, 2008, 08:31:41 PM
Paul, it looks like they do not have the file anymore for some reason. Huh, oh well, it basically boils down to a bigger spark and retarded timing. Can't wait to get that damn engine.
That web site has been down for a week with re-vamping. It
works now:
http://www.panaceauniversity.org/D13.pdf
Paul.
I have an engine, its sitting in a dump truck, I'd love to do this with someone. Its a running 1970's v8, carbeurated. I'm located in Niagara Falls/Buffalo area.
Let me know if anyone is interested. One thing that I can't figure out is the vibration box. Has anyone identified the components?
I wouldn't worry about the vibrators too much. They were hooked up wrong anyway. What looks to be happening is a lower voltage higher current jolt to the plugs coupled with the 120v direct current from the inverter (diodes make it direct). Just a high energy discharge. If the directhits Im going to order dont do the job then I'm going to try a capacitor bank for each cylinder to make a stronger arc. This week is pay week I think, yay.
I understand that a lot of whats written says they weren't doing anything. My thoughts are, with the lack of technical information, a starting point would be the exact set up, and then move from there.
Right now I'm trying to exhaust all the reading material available, to see what I can see, its an interesting system. Honestly, my problem is I'm far more mechanically inclined and not so much on the electrical. I'd really like to see this running, and take a pic, and measure some electrics.
This weekend might be it, guys! I think this week is the week I get payed and if so, I should be able to buy that engine this Saturday, I'm hoping. I assure you, once I order the plugs, this experiment will be most exciting, whether it works or not. This is just one idea of many.
I got my engine today! It's a chevy straight six with a carburettor and...uhh...no starter =/ Oh well, that can be bought somewhere. Ooo It's exciting, first I gotta get this thing running on gasoline, then we can move on to water!! =D
Super God
Did you know that s1r9a9m9 started posting again on the waterfuel1978 forum!
This is what he posted yesterday:
The relay I used has two sets of coils and resisters in them. The
same thing can be made by blocking the currents from the plug wire
from going into the inverter and blocking the current from the
inverter going to the plug wire, but leaving an open loop for both
at the plug by grounding the inverter at the plug base and no where
else on the vehicle.
The inverter has a constant current going to the plug except when
the distrubitor sends fire through the plug wire. The inverter needs
to be blocked only for the time it takes the plug to fire from the
distrubitor, and the same for the distrubitor blocked from the
inverter.
What goes on with the plug tip? well the inverter sends a current
to the tip where there is water , the plug tip now has a magnetic
field around it when the plug is fired from the distrubitor the
field is incressed and the extra amps causes a arc to form in the
clyender that expands the water as like a lighting bolt would. You
can expand water but you cant compress it. Yes if to much water is
in the cylender it will lock the engine. Thats why the timeing is
set after TDC .
Gas will not burn, gas vapor will burn. A carberator is designed
to vaporize gas as it inters the intake manifold under a vacummn.
Water will become partly vaporized and the rest is used to incress
the compression in the clyender. A fuel injecter sprays a mist of
fluid not vapor. It will partly vaporize in the clyender before the
plug fires. That is why cars with carbs and cars with injecters have
defferent time even for the same size engines. There is a few
degrees defferents in them.
The relays I used did not have any numbers or names or any marking
on them at all. The parts I found that would work cost $600.00(US)
for each clyender, and I was ask not to give out that info becaused
of what they were used for. Home Land Secuirty Issue's. I dont
ask , I dont tell. Plus how many people would spend their rent
money for the parts. None of this can be patented and sold.
I hope this will help others finish their projects.
Why yes I did! I've been following that forum very closely. However, we already have all information we need! This engine is going to take some work to get running. I need to make a starter mount and get a starter, alternator, and a battery, oh and a radiator. So it's not going to be running RIGHT NOW, but it will run soon enough! If it won't run I'll have to rebuild it, but at least then I can make sure it's like new. Pictures soon, once I get the camera on the cellphone working! =D
The best I could come up with was a crappy camera phone, here you go:
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi246.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg114%2FSuperGodlyGodz%2F021008_12574.jpg&hash=d3c9257e4513e0662f18d4956f6f509998c89300)
My engine is one step closer to being ready for testing. I have an alternator and starter. Now, i need to wait until better weather to snag the fuel pump and radiator (and bell housing) from my grandpa's truck to get this thing running. Before I order the DirectHits, I want to stick to what s1r did, I'm going to get some diodes and an inverter and attempt to wire it up like he did. Now the only problem I have is how to connect everything, how am I going to hook a 120v wire up to a spark plug? What should I use for connectors??
"how am I going to hook a 120v wire up to a spark plug? What should I use for connectors??"
That should not be a problem. Regular spark plug wires have an insulated covering that pretty well keeps in 20kv or 30kv of electrical pressure (voltage) from a standard spark coil so I think they would work just dandy for 120v.
Out of all the things I've read this one actually looks the most promising. After reading up on this for some time I realized that this has not been tried on a fuel injected motor. If that were possible I would be more than willing to try it on my 94 VW jetta. I plan on doing an engine swap in the future anyway. What are your thoughts on combining this system with an HHO generator? Any thoughts? Advice?
Try it on a fuel injected vehicle. I'm going to sometime as well. I think the HHO injection will help out in terms of power and performance, but I have not tested this yet, however, once money and time allow, I will experiment with this also. First thing is to get this thing running on water, which shouldn't be too far off, I've almost got everything to get this engine turning over on gasoline, and once I do that then I can move onto water. I'm expecting sometime in the spring I'll be able to really start working on this project.
I have seen some of the diagrams and I have to confess, I seem to get more confused the more I look at them. This might be a dumb question and I apologize if I sound like a complete idiot, but the way I see it, even dumb people might be able to help figure this thing out with the help of these forums.
My question is where do I start and what should I be picking up from my local hardware and electrical stores to begin experimenting? As I mentioned before I would like to try to replicate what s1r9a9m9 did with his car on my VW Jetta which is fuel injected. From what I understand I will need to pick up a AC inverter, some diodes and a HV DPST relay or vibrator? If your wondering where I'm pulling this from below is the diagram I'm looking at.
Many of you are probably working on your own projects so I understand if helping out a newbie like me might be an inconvenience. If so, at least point me in the right direction. I have a car I would like to use in this experiment, I'm not a complete idiot when it comes to wiring something so If I have someone to help me with my questions, the rest I think I can manage.
Thanks to all for your time.
This document at the end of this link is a compilation of the yahoo group posts where the information originally came from. I hope everyone finds it as educational as I did. http://sdch2o.free.fr/vrac/watercar.pdf
HotRod, what I am going to do is get an AC inverter and some diodes, no relays. Wire it up to that the AC current can only go one way, and so that the AC current does not go back to the distributor. I'll draw a diagram tonight after school. It should help explain what I'm trying to do. If this doesn't work then I'll try plan B, the DirectHits. =D
Finally the snow is starting to melt! Whew, it's been a long wait. This weekend I'm going to pick up an inverter and some diodes. Getting ever closer to that moment of truth!
Hi Supergod, I'm write behind you, I think D13.pdf says it all, and will be building as soon as I can source a few more parts. Keep me posted how you get on.
Hi have you seen this video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs-Uk511S_I
It may can help you.
Regards
Turz
Got the plasma plugs ordered, now it's just a matter of waiting for good weather and my next paycheck so I can get the engine in running order. First thing is to get it turning over on gas. I have a camcorder, so it's time to post a video, once the weather is good and the engine is ready, you'll all get a video! =D
Um what happen? Updates? :'(
Getting ready to run the engine, weather finally cleared. Gonna start in a week or too once I get money (didn't get paid this week =( ) Gonna get that video camera working too.
Got the engine running on gasoline:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0qc93LyzOs
Hi Super God, I will be following your progress with interest. Question, is there any website that covers this in-depth, apart from the Yahoo group? I would rather not join another Yahoo group as my mailbox is inundated with post notifications as it is... I pulled a pdf off of some site but it doesn't really explain the theory behind it, more a how-to guide. It also mentions that no one other than 's1r9a9m9' has managed to reproduce the setup - is this still the case?
I believe Paul Zigouras from the yahoo group has had a little success with it. I don't know the whole story though. The basic idea is you create a (bigger) plasma by ionizing the path between the two spark plug electrodes, the low voltage high current half rectified ac flows through the ionized path along with the high voltage from the distributor volts. The resulting spark somehow causes the water to expand rapidly and very quickly. The amount of energy released related to the amount of energy put in, but Paul did some tests and says it's overunity energy from somewhere. If water will not run it alone, then a little hydrogen should help.
Got the parts ordered:
an inverter, bridge rectifier, some 600v diodes, and a few coils. Recipe for success I say.
Sounds interesting!
Yes, I believe Paul got 300 rpm with his water explosion engine with just a higher voltage to the plug (less than 90kv). This is very encouraging indeed. The distributor's clamp doesn't seem to want to budge at the moment, I'll have to figure that out so I can adjust the timing. The parts haven't arrived yet. I've been working on a way to attach the wires to the plugs and I found that a 5/8" hose clamp will do nicely for the base of the plug and some stranded lamp wire wrapped around the top electrode should connect with the plug wire snuggly. So far so good!
Quote from: Super God on April 17, 2008, 09:54:05 PM
Yes, I believe Paul got 300 rpm with his water explosion engine with just a higher voltage to the plug (less than 90kv). This is very encouraging indeed. The distributor's clamp doesn't seem to want to budge at the moment, I'll have to figure that out so I can adjust the timing. The parts haven't arrived yet. I've been working on a way to attach the wires to the plugs and I found that a 5/8" hose clamp will do nicely for the base of the plug and some stranded lamp wire wrapped around the top electrode should connect with the plug wire snuggly. So far so good!
Watch out for coronal discharge from the lamp wire. Pulsing HV on wire with some kinds of insulation can produce some unexpected effects. I have used lamp wire for High Intensity Discharge lamps, and it worked fine, so maybe nothing to worry about, but still, you might want to observe the engine in the dark to see if st. elmo's fire is creeping across the engine block (it looks really cool). Also watch out for melting insulation. If <when> ;) you get the thing running, it might be a good idea to swap in some proper high voltage wire, for peace of mind.
The relay has nothing to do with it. Only the coil. The hv voltage ionizes the path between the plug electrodes and the lv flows through that creating a huge spark. So, I think I may just solder the damn wire on the base of the plug for now until I can find some spring clamps that would be suitable. I'll do that today probably.
Still working out bugs, the spark seems to be shorting out through the full wave rectifier I used. I get a normal spark when nothing but the ground is connected to the base of the plug, however, when I connect it to my rectifier, even through the coil it shorts out to the positive. Half wave rectification may be the only way to go, unless I use two full wave rectifiers maybe. My inverter is junk, it didn't put out ANY voltage when I got it. Would anyone be willing to donate an inverter ;) Haha! I'll use two full wave rectifiers instead of one to see what I get.
Got that problem fixed, but now the 110 seems to be going back into the auto coil through the distributor. When I turn the 110 on, there is no more spark. The plug is essentially being shorted out. Need to order more diodes. Once I get the blue spark I need I will video it. Also, I may need the help of an electronics guru for an inverter idea I have. Why not replace the coil with a hv supply and 110 in a single unit with a common ground? That would be portable for the newer model cars, maybe add a megasquirt module to control timing on the newer cars. Just a thought for after I get this going. =)
Diodes are here, tomorrow we do some wiring. Things are looking good, thanks to a very generous individual who donated an inverter for my experiments! Wow! I'm glad there are others looking into this technology too!
Keep up the good work Super God, I'm extremely interested in the results as s1r9's design was one I contemplated building too. And watch out for the feds!
I don't know why the government would want to go out of their way to stop me from doing this. After all, it certainly is not illegal and I have broken no laws converting my truck. But, if it does happen I have a backup plan ;)
By the way, the inverter is in transit so I'm going to get a box to wire everything together tomorrow.
Well if it doesn't work hang onto the engine, it's still very useful. Straight inline sixes are great for hydrogen fuel work. In the engine compartment they give you room to mount circuits and hardware you create. The trouble with 4 cylinder projects is most 4 cylinder vehicles are under powered to begin with. There is no power overlap in a 4 banger. I have a small 4 cylinder pickup, ( large 4) and it probably is almost as big an air pump as your six. On gasoline it gives some vibration and is underpowered. It's not the setup that's prime for hydrogen experimentation. I measured the engine compartment and it is to short to take a straight six. As you can tell I've already considered it.
supergod. after learning of this topic a few months back i have been reading as much as i can on the subject including the current camaro replication. after reading his plans again along with others work i will summarize his concept as utilizing an A/C inverted 120V setup without an electrolytic cell to generate a powerful spark that energizes micron sized water droplets in the chamber which instantly converts the water to thermal explosive energy. i will come back to this later.
Stan Meyers created a fuel cell that after closer inspection has three primary functions: 1 it electrolyzes water, 2-the gases are ionized using bifilar coils and UV energy (laser) and 3-introduces micron sized water droplets into the piston chamber and then utilizes a potent spark to ignite the contents therein. He also siphons off electrons to keep the plasma charged.
Herman Anderson created several water cars. in his latest iteration he produced a specially designed spark plug. while his latest car ran on H2 and not an electrolytic cell, the big deal about his work was that he developed a hollow cell similar in appearance to Meyers. at the top he positioned a modified spark plug to generate a potent spark with the electrode running through the center of this tube and residing in the piston chamber. an inlet port was located in the middle of the tube where H2 gas was introduced and allowed to mix with air on it?s way directly into the piston chamber. he and Meyers both had direct injection modified spark plug units. anderson?s unit would allow hydrogen to enter along with ambient air, a fine mist of micron sized water droplets and a spark of up to 70Kv.
now. to keep this as straightforward as i can about successful water cars in general and this is abbreviated. the key as it relates to your project is in number 5.
1 electrolysis alone, it seems, is generally accepted as being insufficient to power a combustion engine beyond that of a small lawnmower. even with a pulse generator to increase production, this appears to be insufficient to power a car motor.
2 hydrogen is a tiny molecule and suffers from having a low mass energy density. hydrocarbon molecules are huge in comparison and their density is sufficient to move the internal workings of a motor. hydrogen is so light it cannot do so as effectively. this is why we hear rumors of hydrogen car conversions feeling like they have less or half power.
3 electromagnetism is a recurring theme in each of the successful water car examples with the exception of ?S1r9a9m9?. this concept of electromagnetism is important because the ionizing of a gas is creating a plasma. this conversion to the fourth state of matter creates more deuterium (D2) and a more powerful combustion than standard combustion of gases alone. deuterium has an added neutron making the atom twice as dense as hydrogen. plasma is a key element in the process as the added power of the gas now compensates for the lack of production ability of plain electrolysis.
4 ionizing or making hydrogen plasma can be accomplished in several ways, IR, UV, X-ray, microwaves and others. the key frequency for each method is documented in research briefs around the net. microwaves were mentioned previously, UV happens around 195nm and above. the excitation frequency for x-rays, gamma rays, etc i haven?t bothered to investigate as they are not practical for the average Joe to dabble with.
5 the high power spark is necessary to ignite hydrogen and deuterium. i have come to discover this is also critical for another function utilized by Meyers, Anderson and S1r9a9m9. the spark is generally in the vicinity of 40-70Kv. What is important with this detail and why Meyers and Anderson inject water directly into the chamber along with S1r9a9m9 using water exclusively is that the extremely high voltage causes the water to instantly steam and ?explode? although it does not combust. this process produces an enormous expansion of the water as it heats and it does so with greater force than the combustion of gasoline.
now i mention all this to say, while i'm not familiar with everything this guy S1r9a9m9 has done because his plans are so cryptic and unprofessional, it seems some of his procedures are not necessary today. in 1999 a guy named bebich was granted a patent for a super spark plug capable of delivering up to 100 volts if i'm not mistaken. patent number 6,581,581. this aside, modern manufacturers use high voltage sparks now. and there is a company you can locate online at www.pulstarplug.com that produces 100kv plugs that may work for you as well.
just wanted to bring this all to your attention and hope it works for you. give them a try. if the spark creates the thermal explosive energy needed to run the car, then that's a big deal. second, if the power isn't so great, you can always add a cell afterwards. the hydrogen would only help in the combustion process. but to really get the power you want, you need plasma or charged/ionized gas. to get this, you need additional energy and there is plenty of reading material out there with the details.
keep us posted dude. and good luck.
suckapunks
Paul has had limited success with just a standard coil and a bigger gap in his plugs. Maybe there really isn't much to this system after all. I'll keep digging around for more information. S1r is about to post what he has been using for his new engine. I'm looking forward to that. Thank you for the information, it really helped!
Man, rained out today. For tomorrow, I'm going to gap my plugs to get a STRONGER spark. This, coupled with the inverter and the diodes should work and give me a stronger spark that I desire. Plus, I can make toast on the road =D Haha!
Hi Brian,
I just wanted to say that all the effort you are putting into this project is appreciated by many of us. Good luck, and I am hoping for your success. It would be great to see this work out for you.
Dave(RR2)
Thanks Dave,
I built the box for the electronics (diodes) and wire connectors. I'm also getting a new starter tomorrow so I can test the spark. Man, can't wait to try out that inverter! My box isn't the best in terms of craftsmanship, but I'd say it turned out pretty good! =D
super,
if you are open to corresponding more conveniently, feel free to contact me at my email and i will be glad to reach back out to you. have some ideas and want to discuss your progress in a more time efficient manner.
thanks,
suckapunks
This is great, alot of people are now on board with this, they all are much further than I at this point! Time for me to play catch up! I hope the weather is good today.
Hi there, nothing to report lately. Just hydrolocked the engine (gasp), I put too much water in. Engine seems to be fine, I may have broken something. It's not a big deal, I can easily find another test vehicle if it is broken beyond repair. I need some non resistor plugs and low resistance wire. Oh yeah, and something to gap the plugs with properly. Tools tools tools! Haha! Another battery too so I can test my inverter circuit! Making progress slowly...I tend to jump the gun and wind up spending more time working on a problem, I've already done that too many times with this project and will NOT do it again!
I have been thinking about htis a little. What distributor are you using in this set up?
Seems the older point type may work best. Some performance type used 2 point setups.
If this is true you may not need 8 relays or 8 diode setups. Just 2. One for the inverter and one for the coil.
If you use a HEI electronic distributor this may not work the same.
Just some thoughts.
By the way How did you hydrolock it? I did see you got it running. Did you change the advance while it was running?
Can you create a "Y" valve so that after it is running on gas slowly change the gas over to water? (after the car is at operating temp)
And was the water warm but not boiling?
Are you just dropping water into carb? or feeding it through the carb like it was gas?
I have a 4.0 jeep from 1980 inline 6 (well it is my father in law) that is being stored and a 1500watt Power inverter I would love the chance at putting the 2 together. I just lack the additional funds for needed parts
600V Diode
New Distributor
I was being stupid and trying to run it with a bigger spark gap and no other modifications, bad idea. I was just dropping the water through the carb with a spray bottle, now I took the carb off so I can spray a finer mist into the engine without the carb being in the way. The engine and the water are both cold. Tonight I'm hooking up the inverter to the diode array and testing the spark. I might not get to it tonight, but hopefully tomorrow. It's a regular points style distributor. I need to figure out a way to "fog" the water into the engine so I don't have liquid in the cylinders that could potentially damage the engine. Any ideas? Anyway, I'm still working on this as time allows, I won't give up until I have this working, you have my word on that. Graduation is slowing things a bit.
First I would get the carb back on. Get gas back into it. Get it running again. ANd get it up to operating temp. Get the timing back to 30degress BTDC. I believe this was where he started at. Then using a "Y" valve setup slowly turn off the gas and change it to water. then let the carb put the water in no pumping.
But non of it will work without the inverter setup. I believe someone figured the coil by itself is about 90 joules and with the inverter on it is around 250 to 300 joules.
I rememeber in early 80's the carbs used a heater plate between the manifold and carb. That could be a thought later on.
I would get the water to a certain temp just above 120degrees, This way it won't take wuch to get it to flash. Also are you using distilled water? Seems regular water that can transfer electric would be better. distilled would take alot more to get it to go.
Walmart has cheap water heaters in the cup, pots and pan sections. You could try that to help heat the water.
Do you have a diagram of the diode setup?
If I lived near you I would lend a hand.
Yeah all this mechanics stuff is bogging me down. I'm contemplating on going to a one cylinder engine until I get my stuff straightened out. Yes I do have a diagram:
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What year and size of engine are you working with? You still will need a timing light
I am not sure it would be any easier in a one cyl engine. Just because there is no easy way to time it.
Also I do not recall him saying anything about the 110 from grounding. Just that he made sure the inverter was not grounded to the body. Meaning the body of the inverter was not touching the body of the car.
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmemimage.cardomain.com%2Fmember_images%2F5%2Fweb%2F2909000-2909999%2F2909782_24_full.jpg&hash=fb6d368a3fb2f9dfb2e2c2e2f377c9b7a80dfb44)
This shows the y feed to the carb. THe water is higher then the engine. but it still feeds into the carb the same way the gas is feed into the carb. This way you can shut one off after it is running.
Hope this can help
I'm looking into electronic ignitions for one cylinder engines, right now I'm teetering on whether to stick with a six cylinder for now. I'm not sure if water and gas can mix, they both operate at totally different timings and one would snuff out the other, unless you mean I should warm up the engine with gasoline. Woo boy, lots of stuff to figure here. Bear with me, I'm still trying to think stuff through. Are you gonna try this out too? That would be cool.
I have a 4.0 jeep engine that I would love to try it on. Being that my budget it very tight right now. It will have to wait.
And Yes I would get that engine up to operating temp. THat should help heat the water.
What year car it that.
It looks like a chevy from the vid. 258maybe?
I've heard that mixing rubbing alcohol can help get rid of water in your gas tank( by making it more volatile.) Maybe you could go from gas to water + rubbing alcohol? I'm pretty new to this stuf with very minimal science background(graduating in a week), so its just a thought.
It's actually a dodge ram 1984 with a rock solid slant six. Indestructible engine.
Quote from: rtsurfer on May 29, 2008, 07:59:47 PM
Also are you using distilled water? Seems regular water that can transfer electric would be better. distilled would take alot more to get it to go.
I think distilled water would be better at this point, since you don't want the minerals build up inside the engine. Down the road, you could install a still inside the car to supply preheated, distilled H
2O to the engine. This would keep the lime and scale inside the still, and out of the valves, cylinders and exhaust manifold.
Quote from: zerotensor on June 02, 2008, 07:03:55 PM
I think distilled water would be better at this point, since you don't want the minerals build up inside the engine. Down the road, you could install a still inside the car to supply preheated, distilled H2O to the engine. This would keep the lime and scale inside the still, and out of the valves, cylinders and exhaust manifold.
Again Slr never said. But flash needs to happen on the water but try a flash on distilled water. Nothing to transfer the Volts to heat.
Just thoughts
I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but if you inject water like you do gasoline, won't gas mileage stay the same, but just with water? From what I understand, we can't really afford to use water like that.
Quote from: jeeperanthony on May 30, 2008, 10:44:17 PM
I've heard that mixing rubbing alcohol can help get rid of water in your gas tank( by making it more volatile.) Maybe you could go from gas to water + rubbing alcohol? I'm pretty new to this stuf with very minimal science background(graduating in a week), so its just a thought.
Alcohol when mixed with Gasoline acts as a "bonding agent" when you have water in your tank...basically gasoline and water do not mix...they can settle apart and do not bond chemically. The alcohol bonds the water molecules and gas molecules together so the water now gets carried through the system with the rest of the gas and the alcohol.
You see this all the time in the winter when your autoparts store pushes those little bottles of "heat" or gas line antifreeze. It's just a small bottle of alky.
Good Luck all...very interesting.
Thanks,
Hankinator
Quote from: jeeperanthony on June 04, 2008, 11:13:56 AM
I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but if you inject water like you do gasoline, won't gas mileage stay the same, but just with water? From what I understand, we can't really afford to use water like that.
It takes more water to idle the engine than gasoline, hence if you ran it on water you would ge less miles per gallon of water unless you recycled it back into the gas tank. In which case, mileage would be astronomical because you would just keep reusing the same water until it evaporated.
Wow, I feel dumb. I forgot that the "waste" is water.
It's ok, I have my moments too.
Quote from: suckapunks on May 12, 2008, 09:28:14 PM
supergod. after learning of this topic a few months back i have been reading as much as i can on the subject including the current camaro replication. after reading his plans again along with others work i will summarize his concept as utilizing an A/C inverted 120V setup without an electrolytic cell to generate a powerful spark that energizes micron sized water droplets in the chamber which instantly converts the water to thermal explosive energy. i will come back to this later.
Stan Meyers created a fuel cell that after closer inspection has three primary functions: 1 it electrolyzes water, 2-the gases are ionized using bifilar coils and UV energy (laser) and 3-introduces micron sized water droplets into the piston chamber and then utilizes a potent spark to ignite the contents therein. He also siphons off electrons to keep the plasma charged.
Herman Anderson created several water cars. in his latest iteration he produced a specially designed spark plug. while his latest car ran on H2 and not an electrolytic cell, the big deal about his work was that he developed a hollow cell similar in appearance to Meyers. at the top he positioned a modified spark plug to generate a potent spark with the electrode running through the center of this tube and residing in the piston chamber. an inlet port was located in the middle of the tube where H2 gas was introduced and allowed to mix with air on it?s way directly into the piston chamber. he and Meyers both had direct injection modified spark plug units. anderson?s unit would allow hydrogen to enter along with ambient air, a fine mist of micron sized water droplets and a spark of up to 70Kv.
now. to keep this as straightforward as i can about successful water cars in general and this is abbreviated. the key as it relates to your project is in number 5.
1 electrolysis alone, it seems, is generally accepted as being insufficient to power a combustion engine beyond that of a small lawnmower. even with a pulse generator to increase production, this appears to be insufficient to power a car motor.
2 hydrogen is a tiny molecule and suffers from having a low mass energy density. hydrocarbon molecules are huge in comparison and their density is sufficient to move the internal workings of a motor. hydrogen is so light it cannot do so as effectively. this is why we hear rumors of hydrogen car conversions feeling like they have less or half power.
3 electromagnetism is a recurring theme in each of the successful water car examples with the exception of ?S1r9a9m9?. this concept of electromagnetism is important because the ionizing of a gas is creating a plasma. this conversion to the fourth state of matter creates more deuterium (D2) and a more powerful combustion than standard combustion of gases alone. deuterium has an added neutron making the atom twice as dense as hydrogen. plasma is a key element in the process as the added power of the gas now compensates for the lack of production ability of plain electrolysis.
4 ionizing or making hydrogen plasma can be accomplished in several ways, IR, UV, X-ray, microwaves and others. the key frequency for each method is documented in research briefs around the net. microwaves were mentioned previously, UV happens around 195nm and above. the excitation frequency for x-rays, gamma rays, etc i haven?t bothered to investigate as they are not practical for the average Joe to dabble with.
5 the high power spark is necessary to ignite hydrogen and deuterium. i have come to discover this is also critical for another function utilized by Meyers, Anderson and S1r9a9m9. the spark is generally in the vicinity of 40-70Kv. What is important with this detail and why Meyers and Anderson inject water directly into the chamber along with S1r9a9m9 using water exclusively is that the extremely high voltage causes the water to instantly steam and ?explode? although it does not combust. this process produces an enormous expansion of the water as it heats and it does so with greater force than the combustion of gasoline.
now i mention all this to say, while i'm not familiar with everything this guy S1r9a9m9 has done because his plans are so cryptic and unprofessional, it seems some of his procedures are not necessary today. in 1999 a guy named bebich was granted a patent for a super spark plug capable of delivering up to 100 volts if i'm not mistaken. patent number 6,581,581. this aside, modern manufacturers use high voltage sparks now. and there is a company you can locate online at www.pulstarplug.com that produces 100kv plugs that may work for you as well.
just wanted to bring this all to your attention and hope it works for you. give them a try. if the spark creates the thermal explosive energy needed to run the car, then that's a big deal. second, if the power isn't so great, you can always add a cell afterwards. the hydrogen would only help in the combustion process. but to really get the power you want, you need plasma or charged/ionized gas. to get this, you need additional energy and there is plenty of reading material out there with the details.
keep us posted dude. and good luck.
suckapunks
Do you think that this is what is going on with the Dingel (and other philipino) projects on youtube? They all appear to be using a cell that generates hydrogen and oxygen sparately.
Obviously they are not generating the 200 liter/ min. or so that it would take to run a car. So, maybe they are generating just enough hydrogen to facilitate the water detonation?
If that were the case, we would probably see some sort of modifications around the spark plug area. I haven't looked on those videos, but this is the best one for details, that I have seen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-xRnDn_WF0&feature=related
Take a look and tell me what you think
p
Running bike on water
I have tried my 14 tube HHO generator with four different Engines.
1. 2 stroke 80 CC bike engine works fine. Uncontrolled accelleration.
2. 2 Stroke 35 CC Engine. could not start at same gas production.
3. 4 Stroke Engine 80CC Engine not working at all.
4. 4 Stroke 125CC Bike every time back fire could not strat.
I have modified spark plug for 4 stroke engine, Its not working please give me suggestion
Photos of spark plug
Brass on the side is NRV (Non return valve)
Please run my 4 stroke engine ???
My observation with two strke bike runs becouse of exhaust gas mix with hydrogen
and due to this slow burning may be. ???
With 35 CC engine we have not used gasoline at all so there may be no cabon inside
Quote from: capacitor70 on June 06, 2008, 12:47:09 PM
Running bike on water
I have tried my 14 tube HHO generator with four different Engines.
1. 2 stroke 80 CC bike engine works fine. Uncontrolled accelleration.
2. 2 Stroke 35 CC Engine. could not start at same gas production.
3. 4 Stroke Engine 80CC Engine not working at all.
4. 4 Stroke 125CC Bike every time back fire could not strat.
I have modified spark plug for 4 stroke engine, Its not working please give me suggestion
Photos of spark plug
Brass on the side is NRV (Non return valve)
UPDATE!!!
I understand what that piece is. It is a plug saver. Designed to keep plugs from fouling in engines that are burning oil. Is that right??
Please run my 4 stroke engine ???
My observation with two strke bike runs becouse of exhaust gas mix with hydrogen
and due to this slow burning may be. ???
With 35 CC engine we have not used gasoline at all so there may be no cabon inside
That's quite a nice bit of engineering. Did you machine that yourself?
how are you metering the HHO supply to that device?
What shape of spark are you getting in that tip? I don't understand how that tip generates a spark.
Can you do a quick video of that unit connected to a running car (out of the engine) and show us how it is firing?
What is going on with your intake track on these engines, when you are running your fuel into this unit?
p
UPDATE!!
I understand what that is. It is a plug saver, designed to keep plugs from fouling in oil burning engines. Very clever.
You might consider machining off that end cap, as you don't need to shield the plug end from oil.
My though is that you need some sort of solenoid to inject your gas. Just allowing it to leak in is too inconsistent.
Did you retard the timing on your 4 strokes?
How much gas is you cell producing?
Quote from: capacitor70 on June 06, 2008, 12:47:09 PM
Running bike on water
I have tried my 14 tube HHO generator with four different Engines.
1. 2 stroke 80 CC bike engine works fine. Uncontrolled accelleration.
2. 2 Stroke 35 CC Engine. could not start at same gas production.
3. 4 Stroke Engine 80CC Engine not working at all.
4. 4 Stroke 125CC Bike every time back fire could not strat.
I have modified spark plug for 4 stroke engine, Its not working please give me suggestion
Photos of spark plug
Brass on the side is NRV (Non return valve)
Please run my 4 stroke engine ???
My observation with two strke bike runs becouse of exhaust gas mix with hydrogen
and due to this slow burning may be. ???
With 35 CC engine we have not used gasoline at all so there may be no cabon inside
can u explain how u use this setup? do u inject water with this plug?or is is used to draw HHO?
I would strongly not recommend using water drawn with fuel in 2 stroker.In 2 stroker charge (air fuel) travels through the crank case,if u add water here ,corrosion of ball bearings is sure and engine will need rebuild(i was working before with 2 stroker cross motorbikes,if they stay outside too long,water condensation in crank case is sure...for winter i runned them first with very much of oil so to assure the crank case will have enough oil to prevent from rusting). If u use this spark plug to inject water with it (and also generate spark) it is a cool idea! In your shoes i would first run engine without any additions,when it is hot start injecting what u want.In that case u give enough thermal energy to evaporate water.Try with a spark that is hotter(smaller number rating),it will be cooled by water anyhow.I guess u get just the water cloaging the spark and loosing the spark.
4 stroker runs cooler than 2 stroker,so again i guess u have not enough heat to evaporate water u r introducing(try hotter spark plug!)
I am preatty sure u draw not enough HHO through this tiny holes if its just by piston suction only.Back fire is a signal of lean mixture or maybe u have waste spark?(what engine r u testing)
i wait for ur response on the working of ur system so i can give some possible causes of problems.
That's quite a nice bit of engineering. Did you machine that yourself?
No, I have only designed it.
how are you metering the HHO supply to that device?
HHO supply is given from NRV, so that high temprature spark can be used to burn lean mixture of HHO and air.
No gasoline or other fuel. Air intake is in controle. The reson for this spark plug is When I mix little air with HHO engine spark
plug is inefficient. See my WFC and Engine Fundamental Video on Youtube "Capacitor70"
What shape of spark are you getting in that tip? I don't understand how that tip generates a spark.
Its not generating spark it generated HHO flame 3000 Deg. C like HHO torch for very short period
Can you do a quick video of that unit connected to a running car (out of the engine) and show us how it is firing?
It gives flame like four HHO torch
What is going on with your intake track on these engines, when you are running your fuel into this unit?
I am not inserting fuel at all, Intetake is only air. in the piston chamber lean mixture of HHO+air and at spark plug tip it is pure HHO
My though is that you need some sort of solenoid to inject your gas. Just allowing it to leak in is too inconsistent.
Same thing i will try when I get some budget. See HAJI system (Hydrogen jet ignition)
Did you retard the timing on your 4 strokes?
Yes, See WFC and Engine fundamentals for simple circuit of engine timing modification, this circuit can be adjested at
any possition and very very simple works nice
How much gas is you cell producing?
I have not measured it, But it is sufficient to run bike at 10Km/Hr, conclusion from running 2 Stroke 80CC bike (uncontrolled acceleration)
use ngk or plasma plugs.
That's quite a nice bit of engineering. Did you machine that yourself?
No, I have only designed
how are you metering the HHO supply to that device?
No mesurement,
What shape of spark are you getting in that tip? I don't understand how that tip generates a spark.
Like hydrogen torch in four directions
Can you do a quick video of that unit connected to a running car (out of the engine) and show us how it is firing?
Ok, I will make it soon,
What is going on with your intake track on these engines, when you are running your fuel into this unit?
Intake is only air, No fuel at all, I want to make complete water powered, NO GASOLINE
My though is that you need some sort of solenoid to inject your gas. Just allowing it to leak in is too inconsistent.
Same thought is in my mind but I am makeing it at low cost, budget is over
Did you retard the timing on your 4 strokes?
Yes, See WFC and Engine Fundamental video on youtube "Capacitor70" for simple circuit, it can set timing to any position
How much gas is you cell producing?
Not measured but enough to run 2 Stroke 80CC bike at 10Km/Hr, conclution from some practical results
can u explain how u use this setup?
During intake cycle it sucks the HHO from Spark Plug and some air from intake, At spak plug chamber it is reach mixture,
In Main Chamber(piston) lean mixture, when reach mixture is ignited easyly, See WFC and Engine Fundamental video on youtube "Capacitor70" Autoignition temprature and other hydrogen properties are given in that presentaion.
do u inject water with this plug?or is is used to draw HHO?
No water injection, used for draw HHO from Sprk plug to maintain reach mixture at spark plug tip
I would strongly not recommend using water drawn with fuel in 2 stroker.In 2 stroker charge (air fuel) travels through the crank case,if u add water here ,corrosion of ball bearings is sure and engine will need rebuild(i was working before with 2 stroker cross motorbikes,if they stay outside too long,water condensation in crank case is sure...for winter i runned them first with very much of oil so to assure the crank case will have enough oil to prevent from rusting). If u use this spark plug to inject water with it (and also generate spark) it is a cool idea! In your shoes i would first run engine without any additions,when it is hot start injecting what u want.In that case u give enough thermal energy to evaporate water.Try with a spark that is hotter(smaller number rating),it will be cooled by water anyhow.I guess u get just the water cloaging the spark and loosing the spark.
4 stroker runs cooler than 2 stroker,so again i guess u have not enough heat to evaporate water u r introducing(try hotter spark plug!)
i wait for ur response on the working of ur system so i can give some possible causes of problems.
I am not running 2 stroke engine for long time, only for experiment, after experiment hevy oil mixed petrol is given for some time to prevent engine damage
Can you do a quick video of that unit connected to a running car (out of the engine) and show us how it is firing?
It gives flame like four HHO torch
ok, i think that this is your problem.
first of all, excuse my ignorance, but can you explain what an NRV is?
If you're gas flow in continuous you are doing just what you are saying above. You are making a torch.
In a combustion chamber, the fuel air mixture has to circulate around the chamber, before it is ignited. If you fire the gas, the first time, you might have residual burn going on after the power stroke. I think that you are depending on the ball bearing to halt the gas flow into the cylinder on the compression stroke, but if you get any detonation (lean hot burning) you are still burning on the intake stroke. Also, I don't know if that plug cap is harboring some residue burn.
There are just a lot of variables going on here. I think that if you are going to design an injector system, you need a solenoid to "inject" Depending on cell HHO generation pressure is too random.
These are all just novice theory.
capacitor i like ur approach :) Very wisely u separated lean from rich,kind of prechamber as in old Diesels mixed with concept of direct injection to create layered charge densities.Nice i will use this in a regular car to test how it goes to economy(u made it from a scrach?or u bought a halfproduct somewhere?).If designed well it should make some nice swirl inside of the chamber when it ignites and fast flame spreading through the chamber=> more rapid burning and allows to run leaner.Good both for economy and high rpm's power with very little HHO needed.
It has a potential as an easy add on system for a standard gasoline ICE.If used only as a ignition helper for gasoline combustion it could run on tiny HHO required and give some real numbers of improvement.
Some brainstorming from me:
The problem could be to get the right temperature rating of the plug.Face of the prechamber will be probably running cold(unfortunately u use no gasoline so i can not say by the look of the surface...)because it is very compact and has a lot of metal to conduct the heat to the cylinder head.Removing some of the metal would make it hotter and allow of self cleaning.
Spark inside will probably also run cold as it is not in contact with a flame for the most of the work cycle as a normal spark plug does(face of the prechamber work as a fire shield here).Hotter spark plug than standard one would be a simple solution here.
Prechamber volume and holes sizing will play a role in a time it needs to stop flaming(at high rpm's it may flame too long if holes are too small and chamber is too big in volume) what would cause a problem with 2 strokers(ignition would overlap the fresh charge induction into cilinder).
4 stroker has a nasty turbulences close to the intake valve seat,with reversing gases and it creates almost no vacuum figures.That is why u have not enough vacuum to draw ur HHO inside.Spark plug is very close to the valves seats and in a region of relatevely high pressure.That could hold if u are not using any pressurization of HHO.Giving some pressure to ur setup may make it work.Also a spring tension in ur reverse valve plays a major role if u see my point.I would suggest to pressurise HHO aspecially when starting the engine(low rpm's in that case gives a lot of time for air to fill cilinder,and there would be almost no vacuum at all to draw any HHO).OR close butterfly to create low pressure inside of the chamber and suck HHO.
2 stroker depends highly on wave phases in the exhaust,there is no pure induction phase in engine cycle.Vacuum in cilinder exists very shortly and is created by escaping exhaust gases mass momentum+ wave tuning.Charge is sucked by under piston chamber(crank case chamber) and also pressurised under the piston to aid introduction of the fresh charge into the cilinder.Spark plug is here far away from turbulent induction ports and exhaust ports,may have some advantage in allowing for vacuum around the spark plug.
Still i suppose u are aware of amounts of HHo needed to run an engine?First step,calculate how much u need(roughly) then assure u actually draw it into ur engine.Still those small holes there looks very tiny for engine needs.Suppy additional HHO through the intake system.
Some tip: if u have a vacuum indicator,like used for motorbikes carburator synchronisation,u can easily read the vacuum on ur spark plug.
Has any one thought to use a CVCC engine?
R
Quote from: Roaster35 on June 06, 2008, 05:32:39 PM
Has any one thought to use a CVCC engine?
R
nice ;D i knew i saw the concept somewhere :) thx! i guess honda had that time too much problems with this extra valve.but yeah it would be really nice to feed this prechamber with HHO .
Nice i will use this in a regular car to test how it goes to economy(u made it from a scrach?or u bought a halfproduct somewhere?).
Use of gasoline in prechamber helps much you can achive 20:1 AF ratio with only gasoline, More can be achived with hydrogen.
If used only as a ignition helper for gasoline combustion it could run on tiny HHO required and give some real numbers of improvement.
This is true thats what I am trying. Use of firestrom sprk plug increases 40% mpg, then this may double it
2 stroker depends highly on wave phases in the exhaust,there is no pure induction phase in engine cycle.Vacuum in cilinder exists very shortly and is created by escaping exhaust gases mass momentum+ wave tuning.Charge is sucked by under piston chamber(crank case chamber) and also pressurised under the piston to aid introduction of the fresh charge into the cilinder.Spark plug is here far away from turbulent induction ports and exhaust ports,may have some advantage in allowing for vacuum around the spark plug.
That may be reson. I am getting result only with 2 stroke.
Still i suppose u are aware of amounts of HHo needed to run an engine?First step,calculate how much u need(roughly) then assure u actually draw it into ur engine.Still those small holes there looks very tiny for engine needs.Suppy additional HHO through the intake system.
I am having too much leaks in the HHO generater nearly 50% goes into air. I have to solve this problem before I take more test.
Quote from: capacitor70 on June 06, 2008, 10:23:58 PM
Nice i will use this in a regular car to test how it goes to economy(u made it from a scrach?or u bought a halfproduct somewhere?).
Use of gasoline in prechamber helps much you can achive 20:1 AF ratio with only gasoline, More can be achived with hydrogen.
If used only as a ignition helper for gasoline combustion it could run on tiny HHO required and give some real numbers of improvement.
This is true thats what I am trying. Use of firestrom sprk plug increases 40% mpg, then this may double it
2 stroker depends highly on wave phases in the exhaust,there is no pure induction phase in engine cycle.Vacuum in cilinder exists very shortly and is created by escaping exhaust gases mass momentum+ wave tuning.Charge is sucked by under piston chamber(crank case chamber) and also pressurised under the piston to aid introduction of the fresh charge into the cilinder.Spark plug is here far away from turbulent induction ports and exhaust ports,may have some advantage in allowing for vacuum around the spark plug.
That may be reson. I am getting result only with 2 stroke.
Still i suppose u are aware of amounts of HHo needed to run an engine?First step,calculate how much u need(roughly) then assure u actually draw it into ur engine.Still those small holes there looks very tiny for engine needs.Suppy additional HHO through the intake system.
I am having too much leaks in the HHO generater nearly 50% goes into air. I have to solve this problem before I take more test.
How much HHO do you think you are generating?
Quote from: Super God on May 29, 2008, 08:17:27 PM
Yeah all this mechanics stuff is bogging me down. I'm contemplating on going to a one cylinder engine until I get my stuff straightened out. Yes I do have a diagram:
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi246.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg114%2FSuperGodlyGodz%2FNewCircuit.gif&hash=cf68641963290fb27ac79aca73cff0151549bca2)
So where you able to get your plasma spark generating? Did you engine fire before it was hydrolocked? What did you break in the hydrolock? Just curious, haven't seen any updates in a while. Did you end up purchasing the Direct Hits or the Pulse Stars?
Can any one please tell me the system of s1r9a9m9 water car.
is it like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs-Uk511S_I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs-Uk511S_I) ?
Please given me steps involve in replication of s1r9a9m9 so that I can strat work on it.
Quote from: dhouse on June 06, 2008, 11:51:37 PM
So where you able to get your plasma spark generating? Did you engine fire before it was hydrolocked? What did you break in the hydrolock? Just curious, haven't seen any updates in a while. Did you end up purchasing the Direct Hits or the Pulse Stars?
No spark yet, that's what I waiting on money for. The engine fired right up on gasoline before I hydrolocked it. I ended up purchasing the pulse stars because I guess they're directhits now. Eh =/
Anyway, what I'm trying to accomplish is piggybacking 110 over the hv spark. That's basically it besides the retarded timing.
Quote from: Super God on June 07, 2008, 07:37:53 AM
No spark yet, that's what I waiting on money for. The engine fired right up on gasoline before I hydrolocked it. I ended up purchasing the pulse stars because I guess they're directhits now. Eh =/
Anyway, what I'm trying to accomplish is piggybacking 110 over the hv spark. That's basically it besides the retarded timing.
Well, I am not sure if it will work by applying and inverter to a spark plug with a resistor in it. Don't you have to remove the resistor to get the spark plug to work properly?
Quote from: capacitor70 on June 07, 2008, 02:57:57 AM
Can any one please tell me the system of s1r9a9m9 water car.
is it like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs-Uk511S_I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs-Uk511S_I) ?
Please given me steps involve in replication of s1r9a9m9 so that I can strat work on it.
Capacitor
There is a PDF on reply 13 of this thread if I remember right .
It has most of the information that people are following here.
gary
Quote from: dhouse on June 07, 2008, 08:31:16 AM
Well, I am not sure if it will work by applying and inverter to a spark plug with a resistor in it. Don't you have to remove the resistor to get the spark plug to work properly?
Yeah, that's what I need more money for, also, I'm going to try a one cylinder engine with electronic timing so I can adjust it easy. Then, once I figure out the flow rate of mist for one cylinder, do it for 6. (Displacement obviously will be factored) This should be much easier to work with. The slant isn't broken even though I hydrolocked it, the starter had some teeth ground off so it is really rough starting which is why I want to use a smaller engine until I get this figured out for sure. Anyone is welcome to join in and help figure out the right combination of parts, water delivery, and spark we need! Not many people are working on this right now, everyone is into boosters. This has the potential to get us off of gasoline for good. It's simple and it works. What more besides a Joe Cell is simpler? I can't think of many solutions that are as easy to understand as this.
Good luck all!
Quote from: Super God on June 07, 2008, 05:21:10 PM
Yeah, that's what I need more money for, also, I'm going to try a one cylinder engine with electronic timing so I can adjust it easy. Then, once I figure out the flow rate of mist for one cylinder, do it for 6. (Displacement obviously will be factored) This should be much easier to work with. The slant isn't broken even though I hydrolocked it, the starter had some teeth ground off so it is really rough starting which is why I want to use a smaller engine until I get this figured out for sure. Anyone is welcome to join in and help figure out the right combination of parts, water delivery, and spark we need! Not many people are working on this right now, everyone is into boosters. This has the potential to get us off of gasoline for good. It's simple and it works. What more besides a Joe Cell is simpler? I can't think of many solutions that are as easy to understand as this.
Good luck all!
I agree with you. We can minimize our use of gasoline by creating boosters but we are still locked in to the energy. We just developed our Plasma ignition today and it works. We need some more fine tuning to get the most ignition. Our next step is to put it in a motorcycle engine and then add hydro.
we have a few larger engine blocks.
Sweet, lemme know how it goes. I can give some ideas or suggestions if you need them when the time comes. I am looking for some non resistor spark plugs and an electronic ignition system for a one cylinder engine. Then I can start fiddling with the spark and water delivery systems.
Quote from: resonanceman on June 07, 2008, 12:34:50 PM
Capacitor
There is a PDF on reply 13 of this thread if I remember right .
It has most of the information that people are following here.
http://www.panaceauniversity.org/D13.pdf This link is broken "page not found"
I found http://waterfuel.t35.com/water_explosion.html (http://waterfuel.t35.com/water_explosion.html)
it shows same diagrams as post
I made this with spark plug. Resistance is removed but no explosion only gas is comming out
How to explode water ?Test taken with Variable DC source 100VDC to 300VDC no explosion
Successful plasma water explosion test at 600 to 1000V DC, Capacitor Bank Discharge
Currently I am using voltage multiplier for this test
Trials with mosquito killer plasma pending. If any one have mosquito killer bat use this cicruit and tell me results, It is possible to
explode water with this bat. I tried this at friends home dropped some water on bat good explosion observed.
What is on the top of blast ? Shock wave ??? every blast have that flying thing on top
Some Pics
Quote from: capacitor70 on June 08, 2008, 01:00:43 AM
http://www.panaceauniversity.org/D13.pdf This link is broken "page not found"
Capacitor
I uploaded the original log that this thread was based on to the downloads section
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=tpmod;dl
gary
Quote from: capacitor70 on June 08, 2008, 09:28:54 AM
Successful plasma water explosion test at 600 to 1000V DC, Capacitor Bank Discharge
Currently I am using voltage multiplier for this test
Trials with mosquito killer plasma pending. If any one have mosquito killer bat use this cicruit and tell me results, It is possible to
explode water with this bat. I tried this at friends home dropped some water on bat good explosion observed.
What is on the top of blast ? Shock wave ??? every blast have that flying thing on top
Some Pics
If I understand the concept right to make the plasma effect efficiently you need both high voltage and high current
A car the ignition system can work well for the high voltage and timing control
A common 110 V inverter is used for the extra current .
Once the high voltage jumps the gap in the spark plug it creates a plasma " channel " that is relativly low resistance ......... the much lower voltage can follow this path as long as the high voltage maintains the channel
The high voltage is in effect the switch for the lower voltage .
It is the lower voltage ( high current ) that flashes the water into steam .
gary
Quote from: resonanceman on June 08, 2008, 11:08:23 AM
Once the high voltage jumps the gap in the spark plug it creates a plasma " channel " that is relativly low resistance ......... the much lower voltage can follow this path as long as the high voltage maintains the channel
The high voltage is in effect the switch for the lower voltage .
It is the lower voltage ( high current ) that flashes the water into steam .
gary
Thank very you. for giveing this very important information. Soon I will make circuit for this effect.
Quote from: capacitor70 on June 08, 2008, 09:28:54 AM
Successful plasma water explosion test at 600 to 1000V DC, Capacitor Bank Discharge
Currently I am using voltage multiplier for this test
Trials with mosquito killer plasma pending. If any one have mosquito killer bat use this cicruit and tell me results, It is possible to
explode water with this bat. I tried this at friends home dropped some water on bat good explosion observed.
What is on the top of blast ? Shock wave ??? every blast have that flying thing on top
Some Pics
Hi capacitor70,
great work ;D can you please share your exact componets you used and how you connected it and what did you use to get your 600 to 1000V DC. I would like to replicate this a.s.a.p.
What is on the top of blast ? Yes, that is the good part ;D I'll explain to you later, once I have it replicated.
Thanks for posting.
Luc
Circuit for water explosion.
Transformer is used for controlling voltage and isolation purpose. It also prevent mains trip
IT is must to use transformer
First transformer is having various tappings from 1.2v to 12V. By adjesting this I can control the output of second transformer
this way both control of voltage and isolation is possible
Do not connect it directly. First charge the capacitor to 600 or 1000V. Then sudden dischrge in water use switch
Take care high voltages
Quote from: capacitor70 on June 08, 2008, 09:28:54 AM
Successful plasma water explosion test at 600 to 1000V DC, Capacitor Bank Discharge
Currently I am using voltage multiplier for this test
Trials with mosquito killer plasma pending. If any one have mosquito killer bat use this cicruit and tell me results, It is possible to
explode water with this bat. I tried this at friends home dropped some water on bat good explosion observed.
What is on the top of blast ? Shock wave ??? every blast have that flying thing on top
Some Pics
Capacitor
Looks very powerful
:)
I am guessing that the thing above the main blast is something like a bubble of plasma ....... If it is ......it would be great for igniting HHO if the direct injection doesn't give enough power.
gary
Quote from: capacitor70 on June 08, 2008, 01:25:47 PM
Circuit for water explosion.
Transformer is used for controlling voltage and isolation purpose. It also prevent mains trip
IT is must to use transformer
First transformer is having various tappings from 1.2v to 12V. By adjesting this I can control the output of second transformer
this way both control of voltage and isolation is possible
Do not connect it directly. First charge the capacitor to 600 or 1000V. Then sudden dischrge in water use switch
Take care high voltages
Thank you capacitor70 for sharing your circuit. I have 3 more questions.
1. I have 4 microwave 1mf 2,000 volt capacitors. Could I not use them in parallel with 2 of the hight voltage diodes from the microwaves to do the same as your schematic or is there a reason to use so many capacitors and must they need to be polarized?
2. did you measure the amps (or better watts) consumed at the 220v input to do one explosion?
3. how much water is on the sparkplug before explosion?
Thanks for your time.
Luc
Very very nice!! This is exactly what I'm aiming to do! You are ahead of me! Haha, I can't wait to get caught back up with this replication, I have fallen behind it seems. Keep up the excellent work!
1. I have 4 microwave 1mf 2,000 volt capacitors. Could I not use them in parallel with 2 of the hight voltage diodes from the microwaves to do the same as your schematic or is there a reason to use so many capacitors and must they need to be polarized?
You can use 1micro fared capacitor,Insted of 4 steps use only two steps of voltage multiplier(requires 4 caps), use 4007 two diode in series insted of single to make it workable with higher voltage. go for higher voltage use both 12V transformer to get more voltage. Higher the capacitance(mfd) higher current discharge
2. did you measure the amps (or better watts) consumed at the 220v input to do one explosion?
No, It is transient current difficult to measure
3. how much water is on the sparkplug before explosion?
I use pen cap on the spark plug top it contains 1 CC of water, It takes two blast to through out complete water
Remove resistance from spark plug(If present). I use meco spark plug No internal resistance present in it. Make sure diode sustane high current discharge, some times it gets shorted.
more experiments can be done with
use TYN612 600V 12 Amps SCR in series 3 nos (1800Volts@12Amps) as switch for discharge. Insted of relay, to prevent pre arcking in relay
high frequency ferrite core transformer can be used for fast charging of capacitor
YOU CAN TRY WITH MOSQUITO KILLER BAT, IT WORKS NICE, it takes very less current and gives very high plasma out
Quote from: capacitor70 on June 08, 2008, 10:08:27 PM
1. I have 4 microwave 1mf 2,000 volt capacitors. Could I not use them in parallel with 2 of the hight voltage diodes from the microwaves to do the same as your schematic or is there a reason to use so many capacitors and must they need to be polarized?
You can use 1micro fared capacitor,Insted of 4 steps use only two steps of voltage multiplier(requires 4 caps), use 4007 two diode in series insted of single to make it workable with higher voltage. go for higher voltage use both 12V transformer to get more voltage. Higher the capacitance(mfd) higher current discharge
2. did you measure the amps (or better watts) consumed at the 220v input to do one explosion?
No, It is transient current difficult to measure
3. how much water is on the sparkplug before explosion?
I use pen cap on the spark plug top it contains 1 CC of water, It takes two blast to through out complete water
Remove resistance from spark plug(If present). I use meco spark plug No internal resistance present in it. Make sure diode sustane high current discharge, some times it gets shorted.
more experiments can be done with
use TYN612 600V 12 Amps SCR in series 3 nos (1800Volts@12Amps) as switch for discharge. Insted of relay, to prevent pre arcking in relay
high frequency ferrite core transformer can be used for fast charging of capacitor
YOU CAN TRY WITH MOSQUITO KILLER BAT, IT WORKS NICE, it takes very less current and gives very high plasma out
Hello and Namaste capacitor70. I am sending you a personal message. Please look for it
Luc
Quote from: capacitor70 on June 08, 2008, 10:08:27 PM
1. I have 4 microwave 1mf 2,000 volt capacitors....
...remember that they usually have a built in 1megohm resistor across their terminals
(to stop repair men getting a shock).
Paul.
In order to control the intensity of the discharge, would it be better to replace the coil with a hv power supply and just piggyback 110 or maybe even 220 onto that for the output? The distributor could trigger the hv power supply via relay (across the source 12v). Sounds like a good route to travel, as the coil is very inconsistent in it's spark output. I think it would be better to use something more constant. What do you guys think?
Quote from: Super God on June 09, 2008, 10:16:34 AM
In order to control the intensity of the discharge, would it be better to replace the coil with a hv power supply and just piggyback 110 or maybe even 220 onto that for the output? The distributor could trigger the hv power supply via relay (across the source 12v). Sounds like a good route to travel, as the coil is very inconsistent in it's spark output. I think it would be better to use something more constant. What do you guys think?
I think a combination of controling the amount of water and the amount of the low voltage current .
If you replace the coil with a HV power supply you have to find another way to time the spark
Think of the original ignition system as the timing control circuit
There should be some combination of water and current that will provide the right horse power and temp .
The water would not all need to be applied the same way .
It may not be practical to inject enough water at the spark plug ...... mist into the manifold , HHO or both could fill the gap
gary
File
High voltage generation and controled discharge,
Use SCR TYN612M
Do not use triac use SCR TYN612M
All Capacitors 2.2ufd(micro fared) 400 Volts
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=item86
Quote from: resonanceman on June 09, 2008, 11:06:37 AM
I think a combination of controling the amount of water and the amount of the low voltage current .
If you replace the coil with a HV power supply you have to find another way to time the spark
Think of the original ignition system as the timing control circuit
There should be some combination of water and current that will provide the right horse power and temp .
The water would not all need to be applied the same way .
It may not be practical to inject enough water at the spark plug ...... mist into the manifold , HHO or both could fill the gap
gary
You could just replace the spark plugs with triggers to control when the hv fires, it wouldn't be hard to change over.
Quote from: Super God on June 09, 2008, 09:32:34 PM
You could just replace the spark plugs with triggers to control when the hv fires, it wouldn't be hard to change over.
yes but you still will have to get the spark into the cylinder ..... a spark plug is simple and proven way to do that .
I do think that working on ways to get longer sparks is a good idea ....... I am pretty sure that a wider spark gap translates to more plasma once you get it going .
gary
Wow, you guys are all going so well. I have been working on this for a while-  I have built a basic jacobs ladder via a kit sourced from jaycar here in australia, it powers the ignition coil so all i have to do now is plug in some Low voltage AC (220-240v here in aus), only question is what kind of diodes do i need? what are you using Super God?
Note: bigger spark gaps will work great in a bench test however HV low amps doesnt seem to like heat, so once in an engine you may find the breakdown of spark is immense and a smaller gap is required. If you want some good info on hydrocarbons for supplementing fuel, google search bingofuel.
Quote from: ninjadaniel on June 10, 2008, 01:24:38 AM
Note: bigger spark gaps will work great in a bench test however HV low amps doesnt seem to like heat, so once in an engine you may find the breakdown of spark is immense and a smaller gap is required. If you want some good info on hydrocarbons for supplementing fuel, google search bingofuel.
I agree that it might work much different in an engine than it does on a bench ............some expermenting will be required ......
I still think that the high voltage should be used for timing control and plasma channel formation .
It seems to me that if the arc is to unstable one way to fix it would be to raise the low voltage
A 220 V inverter should not be to hard to find .......
gary
test,I just wanted a direct connection back to this thread.Triffid
Quote from: resonanceman on June 10, 2008, 02:47:28 AM
I agree that it might work much different in an engine than it does on a bench ............some expermenting will be required ......
I still think that the high voltage should be used for timing control and plasma channel formation .
It seems to me that if the arc is to unstable one way to fix it would be to raise the low voltage
A 220 V inverter should not be to hard to find .......
gary
The hv is still the trigger, the only thing I'm changing is the coil to a power supply so I can control how much voltage gets to the plugs.
The diodes I'm using are 1n4007's in series to block with hv part from going back into the inverter and one 1n4007 to block the 110 from shorting out the coil.
Quote from: Super God on June 10, 2008, 10:46:14 AM
The hv is still the trigger, the only thing I'm changing is the coil to a power supply so I can control how much voltage gets to the plugs.
The diodes I'm using are 1n4007's in series to block with hv part from going back into the inverter and one 1n4007 to block the 110 from shorting out the coil.
Sorry .........I am starting to sound like a broken record .
In my opinion the high voltage from the ignition should be used for forming a plasma channel and for timing ......
In my opinion if you decrease the high voltage you will very quickly get an unstable arc .
In my opinion the current from the inverter is what needs to be controled .
In my opinion the high voltage determines how wide the plug gap can be .
In my opinion the current from the inverter determines how wide the plasma channel is .
In my opinion more current means more plasma .........more plasma means more heat . ...... more heat means more horse power .
I am assuming that the prosess we are dealing with is using plasma to flash water into steam .
In my opinion I could be wrong about any of this ............but I am pretty sure I am right .
gary
Isn't it cheaper and easier to control relatively low voltage current than it is to control high voltage current?
It seems to me that lower is better . ....... It might be worth testing to see if 12 V is enough voltage to cross the plasma channel .
gary
Yeah, I mis-typed my post up there to make it seem like I wanted to replace the PLUGS with something else, wow sorry about that. Yes, you are correct about everything you said, the fog actually explodes out of the water with a tremendous force as seen in the Graneau experiments. I'll dig up that pdf for you, it was a good indication of what was happening in the cylinder. Basically what I propose is to get rid of the coil and just use a high voltage power supply instead of a coil to generate the hv part of the ignition system. The reasoning is when I gapped my plugs it would only jump some of the time, leading me to believe the coil was inconsistent in it's voltage output. The low voltage system is still the same, 110 volts protected by some hv diodes. I have bought a water mister to experiment with instead of feeding water directly into the intake via carburetor.
Quote from: Super God on June 11, 2008, 10:58:02 AM
Yeah, I mis-typed my post up there to make it seem like I wanted to replace the PLUGS with something else, wow sorry about that. Yes, you are correct about everything you said, the fog actually explodes out of the water with a tremendous force as seen in the Graneau experiments. I'll dig up that pdf for you, it was a good indication of what was happening in the cylinder. Basically what I propose is to get rid of the coil and just use a high voltage power supply instead of a coil to generate the hv part of the ignition system. The reasoning is when I gapped my plugs it would only jump some of the time, leading me to believe the coil was inconsistent in it's voltage output. The low voltage system is still the same, 110 volts protected by some hv diodes. I have bought a water mister to experiment with instead of feeding water directly into the intake via carburetor.
I am glad that we agree on the basics of this idea .....
When I am ready to start I think I am going to start with the regular ignition ........but I have been wondering if something like a transformer could be made to step up the voltage .........like maybe 5 or 6 to 1
I was thinking of putting it right on the top of the plug .......that way I don't have to worry about insulation as much . .....
there wouldn't be much current ........but the low voltage should take care of that once the channel is open .
If nothing else it would be fun to see how wide of a gap I could make it jump .
gary
One thought i had was to use pulstar plugs or nology hotwires, both of these products have capacitors that will prolong the HV and therefore the LV = more plasma. I am going to commence bench tests next week and will post up my results here, perhaps some cool piccys!
Another question Super God, how many of these diodes are you running in series? have you successfully blocked HV from a coil? those diodes are only rated at 1000v, coils supposedly do 20k-50k depending on frequency of engine (rpm). If you did want to have constent HV to the plugs, you could always use a 30kvdc flyback from a crt monitor. Or get a jacobs ladder kit (last night i successfully ran my car using the jacobs ladder kit instead of cars ignition system)
Quote from: ninjadaniel on June 12, 2008, 02:17:06 AM
Another question Super God, how many of these diodes are you running in series? have you successfully blocked HV from a coil? those diodes are only rated at 1000v, coils supposedly do 20k-50k depending on frequency of engine (rpm). If you did want to have constent HV to the plugs, you could always use a 30kvdc flyback from a crt monitor. Or get a jacobs ladder kit (last night i successfully ran my car using the jacobs ladder kit instead of cars ignition system)
Good question about the diodes Ninjadanial
I bet that running an engine using a HV transformer would be an interesting light show if you had a clear distributor cap
gary
Hello everyone,
i am looking to start my own Plasma experiments. But i have some basic questions i would like to ask. I have been looking at other forums and groups, and their seems to be lots of different way to get started.
Super God: your schematics refer to using 110v and 40kv.....
Tero: uses 110vac into a bridge rec, then its similar to Super God's
Capacitor70: 230v into transformer to 12v then into a transformer to 230v (for isolation i guess)
S1r's: Relay with HV (but know one knows where to get the relays..) and does not use a bridge rec.
Remoi: Just like Tero, but more up to date.
mdbreedi: FANTASTIC video on youtube.
So i guess what i am getting at is..what direction to take... i would say that a 230v system is not for me, i would like to keep it to a 110v system. SO do we want straight 110v with low amps or use 110v to make it DC with high amps? I am surrounded with HV, i work on arcade monitors, i used one to make a jacobs type ladder.
thanx!
-bill
I think the s1r9a9m9 set-up uses HV to switch the relay on/off which passes 110v to the plugs, however because of the high voltage, i bet it jumps from inside the relay to the plug which is why he was getting readings of 24,000v with 4amps or whatever. You dont need relays as the spark gap theoretically completes the circuit, protecting the inverter is the hard part.
HV Diodes are available on ebay for fairly high prices, id just really like to know how many amps the ign coil produces with its (so called) 30,000v spark. Based on calculations it would be 0.002 amps or 2mA, therefore a 1amp diode is overkill and 10ma 20kv diodes are very affordable. Anybody have any idea how to measure the amps and voltage of an ignition coil? Ive noted a CRT flyback rated at 30kv makes a far more powerful spark than ign coils suggested to have the same volts.
A car the ignition system can work well for the high voltage and timing control
A common 110 V inverter is used for the extra current .
Once the high voltage jumps the gap in the spark plug it creates a plasma " channel " that is relativly low resistance ......... the much lower voltage can follow this path as long as the high voltage maintains the channel
The high voltage is in effect the switch for the lower voltage .
It is the lower voltage ( high current ) that flashes the water into steam .
gary
Quote from: capacitor70 on June 13, 2008, 12:53:50 AM
Once the high voltage jumps the gap in the spark plug it creates a plasma " channel " that is relativly low resistance ......... the much lower voltage can follow this path as long as the high voltage maintains the channel
The high voltage is in effect the switch for the lower voltage .
It is the lower voltage ( high current ) that flashes the water into steam .
Well I agree almost completely with you, except for one point. The High-Voltage usually doesn't have to be maintained to keep the arc, for the plasma channel, which is a good conductor is fed by the current from the low voltage source, and usually will remain if the current is strong enough and the voltage not too small. Here in the water explosion this could be different for I think the water explosion shockwave could be so strong as to extinguish the arc.
BTW: In my opinion this is nothing else than a Trigatron (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trigatron (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trigatron)) where one does just connect the high and the low voltage source to the same electrode. But then you have to make sure, that the HV-Trigger doesn't destroy your low voltage source. This could be a problem in my eyes, for if you take a diode then it has to be rated HV, but at the same time, it needs to withstand a lot of amps (the more the better) for the conduction of the LV-Current. The more current you can deliver in a short time, the stronger should be the bang...
Well, Britt's AEROPS-Engine is quite the same, but he doesn't use water, but inert gases. But except that, he uses the same principle. But there he uses a "normal" Trigatron Scheme.
BTW, I just calculated for myself how much energy one could use for a working car engine. Maybe some are interested, therefore here are my calculations:
* Let's assume the engine runs at 3000 RPM = 50 RPS = 25 Firings per Second for each cylinder
(a 4-stroke engine needs 720? per cycle)
* Let's assume the car has 6 cylinders, that makes 6*25 = 150 Firings per Second in total.
* Let's assume the alternator has a power of 3kW (= 4HP). Thats makes 3000W : 150Hz = 20 J per Firing
* Let's assume we are in Europe ( ;D) and have an european inverter which gives 230 VAC -> rectified -> 320 VDC
* Then the capacitor size for one firing should be C=2E/U^2=2*20J/320V^2=390uF
This is just for a rough estimate. The capacitor would not become completely discharged in reality, but on the other side one needs power for a HV Spark...
BTW, just an idea.
It could be interesting to test if making a magnetic Plasma Trap during the discharge would increase the Bang.This could be easily done by wiring a coil around the plasma region and letting the LV-Discharge first through this coil, prior to the water. This should compress the plasma and if the coil is wound correctly could even trap the plasma so that it gets hindered at going out of the spark plug, while the discharge is in progress. Maybe this could increase the efficiency even more.
I think I will test this tomorrow...
Another idea:
If one puts a high voltage on the water, (connect only one side of the HV source, so that no current is flowing) the water gets ionized and will then be repelled from the plug. I think if the HV is high enough and the amount of water small it will immediately spray out due to the repellant electrostatic forces. If then one would fire the HV (let current flow) and afterwards the LV (a lot of current) it could also be beneficial for the plasma explosion, if the water is finely dispersed in the room when the plasma is built.
Quote from: ninjadaniel on June 12, 2008, 02:17:06 AM
Another question Super God, how many of these diodes are you running in series? have you successfully blocked HV from a coil? those diodes are only rated at 1000v, coils supposedly do 20k-50k depending on frequency of engine (rpm). If you did want to have constent HV to the plugs, you could always use a 30kvdc flyback from a crt monitor. Or get a jacobs ladder kit (last night i successfully ran my car using the jacobs ladder kit instead of cars ignition system)
Yes they did block the hv, I used about 10 in series as good insurace, the gap will breakdown well below that, at about 2 kv or so under normal conditions, so it never even gets close to 30,000 volts. Each 1n4007 is rated for 1000 volts blocking reverse voltage.
Single Supply HV discharge circuit
Initially all capacitor voltage comes across spark plug, makes plasma channel, then all low value capacitor gets dischared soon,
High value capacitor maintains around 300V High current across plug for longer time this way it gives huge blast.
I tried this once and, all 4007 diodes are blown out in first attempt. I don't have higher rating diodes....
How long does it take the capacitors to charge?
Quote from: capacitor70 on June 14, 2008, 10:52:55 AM
Initially all capacitor voltage comes across spark plug, makes plasma channel, then all low value capacitor gets dischared soon,
High value capacitor maintains around 300V High current across plug for longer time this way it gives huge blast.
I tried this once and, all 4007 diodes are blown out in first attempt. I don't have higher rating diodes....
I think this is a really good idea, doing it like that, to merge the HV and LV part in the same cicuit! (doing it serially with a lot of small caps which are responsible for the HV and one big for the long LV)
The only problem could be, like you saw, that all of the elements have to withstand quite a strong current and surges.
If one would make the same circuit, but in a MARX-Generator layout, one could get rid of the diodes, just as a remark...
And as I calculated above, if your discharge with your current circuit (around 340uF) gets the same amount of bang as some gaz in a cylinder would, then it would be possible to make an easy engine conversion...
It takes 4 to 5 sec for charging, isolation transformer have less current rating this is main reson for larger charging time
6 Stages of multiplier are used
LV Cap = 330uF 400V
HV Cap = 2.2uF 400V
Diodes = 6A4 (400V 6Amps)
See the effect Without cap and with cap
I have put injection on top of spark plug, to check what happen if I give pressure to water
I dont see any pressure which push injection upward.
Pressure is important to drive engine ? I made any mistake.. ???
??? Its only huge light No heating
Wow, spectacular pics capacitor70!!! - excellent workmanship as well :D
Question, given that it is taking 5secs to recharge, and assuming you would eventually generate your HV using an ordinary inverter, would a 'typical' inverter be up to the job of charging a cap bank fast enough to run an engine?
Quote from: Shanti on June 15, 2008, 06:04:03 PM
I think this is a really good idea, doing it like that, to merge the HV and LV part in the same cicuit! (doing it serially with a lot of small caps which are responsible for the HV and one big for the long LV)
The only problem could be, like you saw, that all of the elements have to withstand quite a strong current and surges.
If one would make the same circuit, but in a MARX-Generator layout, one could get rid of the diodes, just as a remark...
And as I calculated above, if your discharge with your current circuit (around 340uF) gets the same amount of bang as some gaz in a cylinder would, then it would be possible to make an easy engine conversion...
Hi Shanti,
I like your name :) it sounds so peacefull ;)
Here is a link to buy 6A10 1000V 6A Power Diode for $3.00 for 10 (ten) plus $6.00 for shipping from Hong Kong for as many sets
of 10 that you want (each extra set is free to ship). http://cgi.ebay.com/6A10-1000V-6A-Power-Diode-10-pieces_W0QQitemZ200209858953QQihZ010QQcategoryZ7287QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247 At this price I don't see a problem, unless you know that the MARX-Generator would work better in this application?
About how many watts do you figure it would take to run a 6 cylinder at 2,000 RPM
@capacitor70, great work ;) thank you for testing and for sharing.
Luc
Quote from: capacitor70 on June 15, 2008, 11:36:01 PM
It takes 4 to 5 sec for charging, isolation transformer have less current rating this is main reson for larger charging time
6 Stages of multiplier are used
LV Cap = 330uF 400V
HV Cap = 2.2uF 400V
Diodes = 6A4 (400V 6Amps)
See the effect Without cap and with cap
I have put injection on top of spark plug, to check what happen if I give pressure to water
I dont see any pressure which push injection upward.
Pressure is important to drive engine ? I made any mistake.. ???
??? Its only huge light No heating
You are right no pressure when it's COLD. When the engine block is hot, it will expand and the piston will be driven downwards. Otherwsie, it will all condense much like a flash steam explosion in a cold engine. Good work.
Quote from: capacitor70 on June 15, 2008, 11:36:01 PM
I have put injection on top of spark plug, to check what happen if I give pressure to water
I dont see any pressure which push injection upward.
Pressure is important to drive engine ? I made any mistake.. ???
??? Its only huge light No heating
What if it is an implosion! :o did you check that???
That could be good!... suck the piston up and no heat ;DLuc
Quote from: capacitor70 on June 15, 2008, 11:36:01 PM
It takes 4 to 5 sec for charging, isolation transformer have less current rating this is main reson for larger charging time
6 Stages of multiplier are used
LV Cap = 330uF 400V
HV Cap = 2.2uF 400V
Diodes = 6A4 (400V 6Amps)
See the effect Without cap and with cap
I have put injection on top of spark plug, to check what happen if I give pressure to water
I dont see any pressure which push injection upward.
Pressure is important to drive engine ? I made any mistake.. ???
??? Its only huge light No heating
Capicator
I would not worry about the heat at this point
You are making plasma in a open space. ....... it will be mostly flash and noise .
Think of a firecracker ....... if you hold your hand open you can light a firecracker and let it explode in your hand .
It stings .....
Now ........if you light a firecracker and hold it tightly in a closed fist you may loose a finger or 2 .
putting the plasma in a pressurized cylinder is like closing your fist aroiund a firecracker .
If that does not make enough power ......then add more water . .
It is hard to judge how much plasma you have by the pictures ...........but judging by the difference in the pictures you my have more plasma than you need ........ if I was you I would scale it back a bit for the first in motor tests
gary
Hi
What if it is an implosion! did you check that???
That could be good!... suck the piston up and no heat
I am sure its not implosion, upward pressure is there, but not much
Addining more water or compressing of water dosent make any differance
No pressure at all >:(
Its just a huge light, very very small rise in temprature
Duration of plasma ?? may be it is important, In my tests it is only 100msec ???
>:( >:( >:(
Quote from: capacitor70 on June 16, 2008, 05:52:04 AM
Hi
What if it is an implosion! did you check that???
That could be good!... suck the piston up and no heat
I am sure its not implosion, upward pressure is there, but not much
Addining more water or compressing of water dosent make any differance
No pressure at all >:(
Its just a huge light, very very small rise in temprature
Duration of plasma ?? may be it is important, In my tests it is only 100msec ???
>:( >:( >:(
I would think that if it was an implosion there would have been some talk about that in the original chat log .
Important points from D13.pdf
1. s1r9a's spark: Bright blue with a white flash up to 1/4 inch around the tip and gap.
2. Tero says : The engine must be warmed up first by running it on gasoline or by heating the cylinder
block otherwise all the produced steam will condense immediatly on the cold cylinder walls.
This happens in my syringe test. I don't get any pressure rise and the inside walls of the transparent syringe are covered
with tiny droplets of condensed water.(Same with me)
3. Tero says: I then proceeded to take a small propane torch and heat the block and cylinder head of the 11hp briggs and Stratton engine.
First I heated it to 180 F and set up the experinent the same as before and dischrged the injector. This time it worked. The engine kiked over
740 Degree of rotaion. At 212 F the results were almost twice as good.
4. The hotter the engine block the better the performance.
5. Tero says: why s1r9a's diodes inside the relay don't break as they were spec'd at 600V, while the ignition coil produces a lot higher voltages (10-30KV)
Ans: the spark plug does not allow the voltage to rise to very high levels, as the air in the gap breaks down well before the ignition coil reaches is highest
open circuit voltage.
The electrical breakdown voltage of air is about 1-3KV/mm at atmosphere. The pressure inside the cylinder increases this somewhat.(Same observation lower voltage is
enough to spark in cylender during pressure)
Now problem is fast charging of capacitor and major problem is water injection in to the carb engine
??? ??? ???
You might try the inverter directly to the capacitor through a load to limit the current to the desired amount. The higher the voltage the faster it should charge. Also, try a water fogger first so you don't do what I did and put too much water in. We could have several capacitor circuits for each cylinder that could alternate chargings. Great job, and keep up the good work. I have some supplies coming in the mail too, then I'll be able to help out again. Don't worry, we can work out all the details! =D
EDIT:
Link:
http://www.mainlandmart.com/foggers.html
How is your new setup wired, is it the same as the old one, only with the 330 uf capacitor? You mentioned 6 stages of multipliers.
Yes it is same as previous, two stages of multiplier added and 330uF capacitor parallel with first 2.2uf capacitor.
I am having problem with this it is running at its peek rating all capacitor charged at 410V. use higher voltage rating capacitor
or add more stages. Second problem is some times its not fire, When air is compressed no problem, this is advantage at TDC automatically
it triggers spark.
I think from the pictures thats what you were using, are they all lined up the same as the 330 uf cap? How are they hooked up polarity wise?
I am using only one electrolytic 330uF 400V capacitor, all other capacitors are 2.2uF 400V AC capacitors. Polarity of 330uF cap is important.
It is shown in previous circuit diagram
Dont use resistor with cap, I put it for further trials, it reduced plasma glow
PLEASE DO NOT MAKE CAPACITOR BASED PLASMA CIRCUIT.
I am taking trials with coil based circuit results are good soon i will give you details
fast charging of 330uF cap is possible with coil based circuit and better control over discharge
so please do not wast money on capacitor based circuit
Quote from: capacitor70 on June 17, 2008, 12:35:16 AM
PLEASE DO NOT MAKE CAPACITOR BASED PLASMA CIRCUIT.
I am taking trials with coil based circuit results are good soon i will give you details
fast charging of 330uF cap is possible with coil based circuit and better control over discharge
so please do not wast money on capacitor based circuit
Great work ;D
All the best to you
Luc
Coil based plasma spark plug is ready for use
12V Oscillator 300Hz >>Transistor TIP122 >> Step up transformer (12V xmer)>> Bridge rectifier >> 400V 330uF cap >> Diodes inseries >> Spark Plug << Diodes << Coil same as s1r9a9's circuit
Pulse to coil is given through switch, thats why you see random trigger
Results on youtube video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvWd_ncd2Qo
Quote from: capacitor70 on June 17, 2008, 01:54:28 AM
Coil based plasma spark plug is ready for use
12V Oscillator 300Hz >>Transistor TIP122 >> Step up transformer (12V xmer)>> Bridge rectifier >> 400V 330uF cap >> Diodes inseries >> Spark Plug << Diodes << Coil same as s1r9a9's circuit
Pulse to coil is given through switch, thats why you see random trigger
Results on youtube video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvWd_ncd2Qo
Capacitor
Looks good ...
Can you post a diagram of the circuit ?
From the parts you mention in your post I have most of the stuff to make this ....... except the oscillator.
gary
capacitor70 looks like you are making some great headway!!
Capacitor charges to 175V DC makes bigger bang
In video it is chrged to only 90 to 100V DC, with 50Hz isolation xmer first circuit
Diodes on negative side for only simplicity of wiring in my circuit you can use it on positive, isolate ground if you are using it on ground side
1N4007 can conduct 4000V @ 1Amps this is coil current and voltage
6A4 (use 6A10) blocks 4000V and conduct 175V DC @ 6 A high current (Diodes have higher transient current capacity)
Problem with coil based circuit is when water touches to the tip of spark plug then it will not work
I think this circuit can run engine without water, only air is sufficient.... ::)
Water on tip gets off becouse of electrolysis but it takes too much time.
Another MAJOR observation is the remained water inside the spark plug (not on tip) makes very huge blast, I am scared to see with naked eyes
I put hard plastic (semitransperent dark color) cover on it to take trials
Make tips wet but do not short it with water and see the major differance, blast is at least 4 to 5 times bigger than dry spark plug
Now it is time to put this into engine. (I am busy with other work please take further trials)
I will take trial on engine after 10 to 20 days.....
;D :D
GO AHEAD ITS TRUE WATER CAN POWER ENGINE.......
THIS IS SIMPLEST METHOD
capacitor70 THANX for the schematics! Does your set up have the ability to recover and recharge fast enough to run a car? (@ 175v per discharge) What type of step up transformer is used in you design?
Would these be usable in your setup Cap70 ?
http://cgi.ebay.com/1-Amp-7-5-kV-High-Voltage-Rectifier-HV-Diode-Tesla-Ham_W0QQitemZ360062454014QQihZ023QQcategoryZ73142QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247
OR
http://cgi.ebay.com/1A-10kV-High-Voltage-Diode-HV-Rectifier-Tesla-coil-Ham_W0QQitemZ360062207891QQihZ023QQcategoryZ7287QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
This should replace the 1n4007's... also in the auction it says "WE OFFER CUSTOM-MADE PRODUCTION OF DIODES ACCORDING TO THE SPECIFICATION YOU SUPPLY."
I am thinkin' "GROUP BUY"...lol
Quote from: capacitor70 on June 17, 2008, 11:37:55 AM
Capacitor charges to 175V DC makes bigger bang
In video it is chrged to only 90 to 100V DC, with 50Hz isolation xmer first circuit
Diodes on negative side for only simplicity of wiring in my circuit you can use it on positive, isolate ground if you are using it on ground side
1N4007 can conduct 4000V @ 1Amps this is coil current and voltage
6A4 (use 6A10) blocks 4000V and conduct 175V DC @ 6 A high current (Diodes have higher transient current capacity)
Problem with coil based circuit is when water touches to the tip of spark plug then it will not work
I think this circuit can run engine without water, only air is sufficient.... ::)
Water on tip gets off becouse of electrolysis but it takes too much time.
Another MAJOR observation is the remained water inside the spark plug (not on tip) makes very huge blast, I am scared to see with naked eyes
I put hard plastic (semitransperent dark color) cover on it to take trials
Make tips wet but do not short it with water and see the major differance, blast is at least 4 to 5 times bigger than dry spark plug
Now it is time to put this into engine. (I am busy with other work please take further trials)
I will take trial on engine after 10 to 20 days.....
;D :D
GO AHEAD ITS TRUE WATER CAN POWER ENGINE.......
THIS IS SIMPLEST METHOD
Good work. This IS the simplest way to do it, tot get us off of gasoline 100%. It can be made to work easily. Good work capacitor70!
EDIT: Wow! After working through the schematic it looks as if only one spark plug wire will be needed! Is that correct capacitor70?
I'm going to pick up my test engine as well tonight.
OK...i will admit to my lack of knowledge :-\ ... can some one help me with Cap70's latest schematic? here is a redraw with my questions in red. I just seem to be missing something (brain fart?) ;D
Thank You
-bill
Does your set up have the ability to recover and recharge fast enough to run a car?
Use 12V 3Amps transformer to charge capacitor. It is like inverter, higher the amps of transformer
faster charging. use higher frequency (500Hz). See Optional circuit, it is inverter.
What type of step up transformer is used in you design?
Ignition coil, 12V 3Amps normal iron core xmer to make inverter. nothing special.
Would these be usable in your setup Cap70 ?
Please do not make things unnecessarily complicated.
After working through the schematic it looks as if only one spark plug wire will be needed! Is that correct capacitor70?
No, Two wires one from capacitor and one from ignition coil. Diode on negative side becouse I dont want to break ignition coil wire.
Dideos on ground side create problem in engine, all body of engine is ground, so put diodes on positive side for engine trials.
Step up transformer?
Its ignition coil, internal diagram.
on/off Switch or just trigger for plasma?
you dont need to do this, if coil is on engine.
It is trigger for plasma.
Where does this come from ?
12V transformer priamary(230V), see bottom picture DSCN2716.jpg.
Ordinary 12V 3Amps transformer connected in reverse, to make simple inverter.
http://www.gocompany.com.au/GOmicrowaveparts.htm
these are what you need guys, prices are in AUD. probably need to wire a bunch of them in parallel to get 4-6 amps passed current and maintain 12kv blocking voltage.
Quote from: ninjadaniel on June 17, 2008, 10:01:46 PM
http://www.gocompany.com.au/GOmicrowaveparts.htm
these are what you need guys, prices are in AUD. probably need to wire a bunch of them in parallel to get 4-6 amps passed current and maintain 12kv blocking voltage.
Do not use parallel combination of diodes to increase current, It is critical to maintain same current in each diode.
WHY YOU GUYS WANT TO MAKE THINGS COMPLICATED AND COSTLYPLEASE DO NOT CONFUSE READERS, i have seen other forums discussion is going on and on more than 15000 posts, new people get confuse
explain to me why diodes cant be wired in parallel
http://ezinearticles.com/?Easy-Method-To-Connect-Diodes-In-Series-And-Parallel-To-Get-The-Desire-Specification&id=502120
Connecting diodes in parallel will increase the current carrying capability. If it is possible to match the diodes so that approximately equal current sharing is achieved this should be done, however, in the event that the exact characteristics are not know sharing resistors (with associated losses) can to be used.
We are putting very high current, transient current during capacitor discharge is very high 1N4007 can sustane 20Amps of transient current, continuous current for 1N4007 is 1Amps, Think if any diode is have less resistance (due to it characteristics) than others maximum current flows through it, In practical
diodes in parallel work for short time slowly it degrades its performance and the same diode start to lower its resistance this increases more current flow through it this chain action damages diode, So you need to balance its current using series resistance with each diode, it is critical to get (and measure) that low value high current resistance. This is main reson why parallel diodes are not used. even connection resistance also plays very important role, for newbies in electronics why to make things complicated.
See this link
http://www.powerdesigners.com/InfoWeb/design_center/articles/Diodes/diodes.shtm
In series connection voltage across each diode is not exactly equal but the maximum differance in voltage is 50V this tolarance is given, so it will work fine
Here is an idea...
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg77.imageshack.us%2Fimg77%2F9660%2Fignitiondiagramug6.jpg&hash=7f01ed2740b0a2774ff1926e169fef96a74b14df)
fantastic drawing mate! very good work- however i dont think the idea will work, looks like you are running the AC into the coil? the coil probably wont work under 110/240v AC.
sure it will! Have you tried?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7JVHYD961M
Capacitor70, thank you for the PM and informing me that my diagram is "its just ignition system, useless for water car
please do not put useless info". Please enlighten us all with your wisdom what this diagram is and why it wont work.
Hairbear
First, we have alrady worked lot on water car, so new diagram you are showing is unkown, we dont know the result, inverter is in series with coil primary
connection, so it is not possible to put high current discharge in spark plug, it makes more voltage not current, video shows plasma arc is passing higher
gap, its useless.
See the results of our design, it is near to final stage.
1. Just spark plug. (spark is very small just a white dot on tip.)
2. Spark plug with DC on plug.
3. Spark plug with DC and water on plug.
The video just shows that you can use an inverter as the input to the ignition coil. The diagram is a rough draw to demonstrate the idea. If you weren't such a "newbie" you would have noticed that there is no ground connected to the spark plugs. I know the circuit looks like it wont work, but, guess what? It does! And it doesn't require the current you claim is needed.I don't recall s1r9a9m9's drawings showing a voltage doubler anywhere. Are you replicating or re-inventing? Maybe you can start a new thread called "Capacitor70's re-invention of s1r9a9m9". I appreciate your input but calling other peoples hard work "useless info" without even a thought in your head is a bit uncalled for.
Nice pictures of water drops on a spark plug! Now let's see you do that with water vapor compressed in a cylinder and fired at 2 degrees past TDC. Even if you get one good bang and revolution cycle, I will be impressed. Till then, your posts are just useless info like the rest of us. Maybe you should read more than you post. And please, stop with the Ohm's law crap. If traditional circuits and math worked for this, we would have figured this out by now.
HeairBear : how do you propose isolating the metal plug from the grounded metal engine for your setup? ???
How great would it be to use a fuel injected car with plasma ignition and put water under high pressure and inject it in, through the stock injectors! ::)
Man, in practice, at least for me, running a ground wire to the plugs that are deep inside the cylinder heads is a pain in the ass. I hope my supplies come in quick, want to see if you can run both grounds (coil and inverter) through the body and save a connection there. Electrically, wouldn't it be the same? I don't know. I need to test that. Capacitor70 and Bear, thanks a ton for your schematics and valuable information and experiments. Now it's time for me to play catch up and get some results. I hate being left behind ;) Haha!
Quote from: HeairBear on June 18, 2008, 02:01:18 AM
sure it will! Have you tried?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7JVHYD961M
HeairBear
You are getting a good spark
I have to agree that you will burn out your coil running 110 V to it .
In my opinion it is working now because it " shorts out " the power to the inverter ........in other words I believe that when the voltage first starts it builds up to very high voltage very quickly .......then arcs over to the input for the inverter ...... once it arcs the current has a low resistance path until the arc starts to break .
Once the arc fails another full power pulse will go to the coil creating another arc . .
If I am right about this .......as soon as you re wire your circuit to do something more than make sparks you will burn up your coil .
gary
Just a word to the wise
I would like to think about everyone here as a reasonably intelligent adult
If I am going to respect you I will need to see you showing respect for others.
Name calling and petty arguments are for children
There may be dozens of ways to actually get the right amount of voltage and current to the plugs .......the only useless post is the post belittling someone .
gary
Quote from: Super God on June 18, 2008, 12:44:11 PM
Man, in practice, at least for me, running a ground wire to the plugs that are deep inside the cylinder heads is a pain in the ass. I hope my supplies come in quick, want to see if you can run both grounds (coil and inverter) through the body and save a connection there. Electrically, wouldn't it be the same? I don't know. I need to test that. Capacitor70 and Bear, thanks a ton for your schematics and valuable information and experiments. Now it's time for me to play catch up and get some results. I hate being left behind ;) Haha!
Super God
Be very careful with this ........ a mistake could very easly be fatal
I would think that all the sparkplug grounds could be relocated to one common spot on the engine .
I would be very careful to keep the inverter insulated from the body
If you make a washer from a loop on the end of the wire as s1r9 suggested it should be relatively easy to connect the wires
gary
The drawing I posted was a real quick rough draft to illustrate the main concept relating to the existing ignition system. It works some what like a Tesla coil but with an Avramenko plug for each spark plug. Basicaly, single wire transmission with a DC converter/rectifier at the plug.
Quote from Wikipedia...
"Tesla coil is an early predecessor of the "ignition coil" in the ignition system. Tesla also gained U.S. Patent 609,250 , "Electrical Igniter for Gas Engines", on August 16, 1898. It used the principles of the ignition coil used today in automobiles. A. Atwater Kent, in 1921, patented the modern form of the ignition coil."
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg169.imageshack.us%2Fimg169%2F8400%2Fteslacoil3cb8.jpg&hash=17ccd6f4e42a3fc4e3cc96975606c8e71c8dcb12) (https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg151.imageshack.us%2Fimg151%2F5696%2Ftcoil2qh9.gif&hash=633a192f6faee10605ba2a016a6d22302a6aa6df)
Quote from Frolov...
"Any motion of charges is electric current by definition. The electric potential field can also move the electric charges and this work of the potential field is not connected with loss of power. So, it is enough to use the electrical field (scalar potential source) to create the power and work in an electric load circuit."
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg301.imageshack.us%2Fimg301%2F2843%2Fswirevo9.gif&hash=ba3904d805366bf0bb0bcb209c48fa5ddec3246a) (https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg215.imageshack.us%2Fimg215%2F1363%2Fsinglevb7.gif&hash=3f505d121c26a0437f25c9dd3e09ad922ec68b91)
For this to work I will need two isolated circuits both using the same chassis/ground. One Battery for the ignition and one for the rest of the car. A little creative wiring should do the trick. Also our chassis/ground can be considered as one wire or earth and has the ability to have two separate signals used in the same wire much like internet access over power lines.
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg171.imageshack.us%2Fimg171%2F9129%2Ftcoil4hq1.gif&hash=23aa302c9f7bcf9bfb8c8c25129cd8c943020d47)
Avramenko replications...
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/afep01.htm
http://www.alternativkanalen.com/s-wire.htm
http://67.76.235.52/DrStiffler/Xenons.asp
Tesla Coil Replications....
Too many too list. Just google Tesla Coil.
One final note about the ignition coil not being able to handle an inverter. In a traditional circuit it would fail eventually but this is not a traditional circuit which uses very little current input to the primary, the secondary has no current, and the load does not affect the primary at all. My tests have confirmed this.
capacitor70,
I have built this circuit and it is very close to yours I used 2 555 timers one for the HV for flyback transformer and
I am getting almost 1" long sparks sereaming it looks very cool. Now I constructed another circuit with a transformer
backwards and got a bridge rectifier hookedd to it just like in your diagram now if I hook up all the diodes and the CAP mine is 400v 470uf but should be good for testing I have found 2 things. The HV circuit works great and great spark on the sparkplug. Curcuit 2 works great charging the cap in very little time and I can discharge it and BOOM! now I connect this all together to complete the circuit, when the spark goes across the spark gap the circuit shorts and the cap discharges well I am not getting a spark when the CAP is in place and I have no clue as to why. As I said both circuit 1 HV and circuit 2LV Cap charger work great seperatly but not when I connect them together I have checked everything all connections and all seems good. when it is all conected together the cap does charge and the flyback rings loudly but no spark I checked all connections and I don't see any leakage anywhere. all I need to do is disconnect the cap and bam spark again!
Any Iedas!
Thanks,
22vision
22vision,
Coil Based Circuit:
In coil based circuit polarity is very important, Normally Coil generates -Ve high voltage and engine body acts as +ve,
This is main reson, check the polarity by putting 1N4007 10 diodes in series on HV wire if diodes are reverse bias it will not produce spark,
If it is -ve, Swap primary connections,
see this link http://www.dansmc.com/bat_coil_ign.htm (http://www.dansmc.com/bat_coil_ign.htm), very little information is given on net.
"If you reverse the low tension ignition coil connections it will reverse the polarity. It takes 40 % or so more voltage to fire the spark plugs on a ignition system with positive polarity. On most bikes you would have to really work at it to do this. However, some four cylinder bikes like the early Honda fours are designed this way with double ended ignition coils. One lead is positive and one lead is negative. This means two of the plugs will require a lot more voltage to fire than the other two. Not much you can do about it, but if two plugs start fouling out on these bikes, this might be the reason. To test polarity put a pencil lead between the high tension lead and the spark plug. If there is a flare from the pencil to the spark plug, the polarity is correct. If the flare is between the lead wire and the pencil the polarity is wrong. "
Diodes are very important, you can use 1N4007 on coil side, coil current does not go beyond 1Amps so it works fine use 7-10 Diodes in series.
For Capacitor use 6A10, or high current diodes, block at least 7Kv.
Check the diodes, diodes may get damaged.
Capacitor Based circuit (Voltage multiplier):
This circuit does not produce very high voltage, some times it does not spark. So don't use it.
----------------------
Here is simple inverter circuit, tested I am using IRF Z55 MOSFET,
mosfet runs cool, no heating is observed I have given 40Watt continuous load for testing
it is now fitted on my bike, due to polarity problem Spark plug connections are pending.
I am using 5Amps Transformer R2=10K VR1=0 C2=104 (0.1uF) it gives around 700Hz output frequency, for fast charging .
Componets used :
16 6A4 diodes
8 1N4007 diodes
5Amps 12-0-12 Xmer for inverter
Cap 330uF 400V
Rectifier Diodes 6A4
I am usine a flyback transformer out of an old 21" monitor. I understand the polarity issues
and I have trsted that and all seems good I also tested my diode's and all seem good. the circuit
is just like your coil schematic the only difference is that I have a 470uf 400v cap in there. I am usinf 555 timers
to pulse it. Now when I turn it on it hums both transformers, the cap charges but no spark on the plug
if I take the + wire off the cap the spark plug starts to spark nery nicely. Seems like I am explaining what is going on again but I am just trying to clarify. The circuit works great but no spark then the cap is in there. and again I tested all the components.
I did notice one thing the fluback transformer has a primary and a secondary like a regular transformer it is not one but like it anyhow the ignition coil you are using has 2 leads and a ground I cannot hook it up as I have 2 wires on pri and 2 wires on sec not like you have the ignition coil in your scama...
I will go over and check everything again the 5th time hehe but I really don't get it the cap seems to be choking the circuit out, I could try a smaller cap and see what happens! or just get an ignition coil but a flyback should work no prob (I get 1" spark nice blue" without the cap")
Thanks for the help!
22vision
22vision,
Your diodes are not capable to block voltage, 21" monitor flyback xmer produce very high voltage and much stronger (little high current) than ignition coil
so the voltage will not drop as I explained in previous post, 3-4KV makes spark and drops the voltage of ignition coil, so the diodes will not see any revese high voltage. you need more diodes in series to block this voltage. I also faced this problem. capacitor gets charged even though the supply to capacitor is turned off if diodes are not blocking HV. Check it. I recommend dont use flyback transformer, you need higher rating (reverse blocking voltage and current) diodes to use it.
Use resistace in HV of flyback to drop voltage. Do not short full charged capacitor, It may damage capacitor, use bulb load to discharge it, I use 200W bulb.
ok thanks for the update I am going to work on it actually after sleeping on it it makes sense now
2 many hours 2 little time. Hey did you get an engine to run yet?
Who needs sleep, ok I got that working I have nice spark and charging the cap all hooked up
but when I measure the cap the v just go up then stay there no discharge hum, think it might
be a diode issue also?
Thanks ALOT for all the help Cap I am going to look over this again and see what I can come up with.
Please find more information on Operation of a capacitor bank for plasma metal forming it is related to plasma water car
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2000Prama..55..941S (http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2000Prama..55..941S)
Quote from: capacitor70 on June 20, 2008, 01:15:44 PM
Please find more information on Operation of a capacitor bank for plasma metal forming it is related to plasma water car
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2000Prama..55..941S (http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2000Prama..55..941S)
Capacitor
If making plasma is an over unity thing ...... there may be some potential there for a big high torque engine
It could be a "liquid piston" design
There could be liquid in the cylinders that flowed directly to a hydrolic motor
@ all
Chapter 10 has a pretty good summery of this technology
Alot of chapter 10 is about HHO . The part relating to this thread starts on page 135.
There is a Ed Grey connection on page 145 that I havn't seen before.
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/
gary
See test on engine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjBkqNc0GrQ
My hat is off too you.
Brad
Quote from: capacitor70 on June 21, 2008, 02:37:08 AM
See test on engine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjBkqNc0GrQ
Great work Capacitor
:)
gary
Sweet. Try warming up the block if have not done so already with gasoline and switch over to water. Just an idea. Keep up the excellent work!
Excellent ;D
you are not far off to having it run. I think SG is right, the motor would need to be at full operating temperature. How about you start it on gas and when it gets hot you use your spray bottle and spray hot water directly in the carburetor and see what it does. If it accelerates then it will work. I recommend to have a long pipe on the exhaust and wrap a copper pipe around it to have the water heated by the exhaust and turn to super heated steam and the pipe goes to the intake of the carburetor. So start on gas and once the steam kick in cut the gas feed.
Have a look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czoxOqZ8rxk
Also the GEET system was able to use 50% to 70% water with the gas mix but they could not go over that. However they did not modify the spark. I think if they did they could have it run 100% on water.
Have a look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeWbzYxRrgI
You now have it all.
Luc
Great work capacitor70, this is starting to look a lot more promising!
One question and at the risk of going OT, but since someone already mentioned it earlier - has anyone here tried re-creating the "Firestorm" sparkplugs? There is a huge amount of work gone into increasing mileage with HHO, whereas just by using spark-plugs of this design you proportedly get a 20-40% increase in mileage, with zero other modifications! Even the developer created his prototypes in the crudest of fashions:
QuoteI took a brand new plug and filed it down to make it look like a dome and fired it and noticed it worked a little better. But I still had a problem with the ground side. So, I whacked the ground off and started putting different configurations of grounding electrodes on it. I held that together with toothpicks to make it easy to change them. And I put a half a loop on and it seemed to fire a little bit better.
Then I took the head off a screw and bashed it with a hammer until it took a dome shape. Then I took the other side and dimpled it creating a concave... an inverted dome really. I sat that dome very carefully on top of the electrode of the new plug that I had filed to accommodate it, then I put a half a ring over it for the negative electrode. I held all that together with toothpicks. And it started firing like crazy and I said, 'Hey! I've really got something here...'
http://www.shoutgreen.com/feature-Make_your_own_Krupa_Firestorm_Spark_Plug.html (http://www.shoutgreen.com/feature-Make_your_own_Krupa_Firestorm_Spark_Plug.html)
Sprocket : here is some animation i made about a year ago on how i think someone could make a firestorm plug.... it s just a thought!!
http://members.aol.com/billman311/firestorm.html
Hey, i just made a animation for a dual anode spark plug! So the HV in keep separate then the LV, untill the tip of the plug, and no need to worry about the cars ground.
This is not my idea, it comes from ATHAL on the waterfuel1978 yahoo group. In the files you can see his PDF. I just went a different way with the insulation material. Carbon fiber should be a lot stronger than broken glass.
http://designstudioexpress.com/dual.html
Quote from: xbox hacker on June 21, 2008, 04:01:42 PM
Sprocket : here is some animation i made about a year ago on how i think someone could make a firestorm plug.... it s just a thought!!
http://members.aol.com/billman311/firestorm.html
xbox, nice animation! I have bought sparkplugs with one of the two Firestorm-type side-to-side ground electrodes in the past, except it did not extend all the say - it was cut in the center, right over the center electrode. (if any of that makes sense!) It may be possible to 'complete the loop' by brazing in a piece of metal to fill the gap. You would still need to add another ground loop somehow though...
It's fustrating to see 'simple' solutions to better fuel economy like this neglected - it's now definely on my 'to-do/try' list...
Quote from: xbox hacker on June 21, 2008, 08:14:04 PM
Hey, i just made a animation for a dual anode spark plug! So the HV in keep separate then the LV, untill the tip of the plug, and no need to worry about the cars ground.
This is not my idea, it comes from ATHAL on the waterfuel1978 yahoo group. In the files you can see his PDF. I just went a different way with the insulation material. Carbon fiber should be a lot stronger than broken glass.
http://designstudioexpress.com/dual.html
Xbox
cool idea .............but carbon fiber is a pretty good conductor .
I think that ceramic tubes would be required .
gary
Quote from: xbox hacker on June 21, 2008, 08:14:04 PM
Hey, i just made a animation for a dual anode spark plug! So the HV in keep separate then the LV, untill the tip of the plug, and no need to worry about the cars ground.
This is not my idea, it comes from ATHAL on the waterfuel1978 yahoo group. In the files you can see his PDF. I just went a different way with the insulation material. Carbon fiber should be a lot stronger than broken glass.
http://designstudioexpress.com/dual.html
Xbox
have you tried to break the ceramic out of a sparkplug?
If it is practical to break the ceramic out and a practical way to replace it with something else can be found you may have given me one of the answers I have been looking for .
gary.
Sprocket: dont try it with "multi electrode" plugs, cause you will need to add you own "bird cage" electrode. So dont waste you money, buy cheap-o's!
resonanceman: DOH!!!!!! your right!!!! Please disregard the carbon fiber dual anode plug! :-\
also...yes i have broken out the insulator in a normal plug... and had just a hollow body... still havent gotten around to even begin to make a dual anode plug yet.... Just a bunch of broken plugs...LOL
as i mentioned...its not my idea! I want to make it fully clear that its ATHAL's idea from waterfuel1978 group! He has already made a prototype for it, its all in the PDF in his folder in the files section. I just thought it would be better to presss tubing in to the body rather than make the insulator out of used bulbs, like ATHAL had done.
EDIT: Sprocket...here is a idea for the "bird cage" ground electrode.
resonanceman: i was also looking into "cold-casting porcelain" ... it would seem that you take 1/3 epoxy, 1/3 hardener, and 1/3 porcelain dust (by weight). I am looking for a epoxy that will withstand the heat and the pressure.
Quote from: xbox hacker on June 21, 2008, 10:34:48 PM
resonanceman: i was also looking into "cold-casting porcelain" ... it would seem that you take 1/3 epoxy, 1/3 hardener, and 1/3 porcelain dust (by weight). I am looking for a epoxy that will withstand the heat and the pressure.
Xbox
I am thinking of procelain or a similar ceramic .
Anyone here have any experience with a HHO torch?
I have heard that they can burn a hole in firebrick ........and weld metal to things like brick .
It seems to me that with a jig that spins the plug at a few RPM a water torch could seal the ends of the plug pretty efficently if the right materials are used .
Quote
resonanceman: DOH!!!!!! your right!!!! Please disregard the carbon fiber dual anode plug!
I think it is a great concept .....just needs a little work on the materials .
gary
Quote from: xbox hacker on June 21, 2008, 10:34:48 PM
resonanceman: i was also looking into "cold-casting porcelain" ... it would seem that you take 1/3 epoxy, 1/3 hardener, and 1/3 porcelain dust (by weight). I am looking for a epoxy that will withstand the heat and the pressure.
Unless there has been some pretty big advances in epoxy I don't think you will find one that can take that kind of heat .
I am wondering about using something like ( if I remember right ) sodium silacate ...... it used to be called waterglass
It used to be used for sealing packages . I also read how it could be used to repair chips in glassware
Repairing chipped glass required a torch .......but not near enough heat to melt the glass
gary
Sweet. Try warming up the block if have not done so already with gasoline and switch over to water. Just an idea. Keep up the excellent work!
I installed inverter on bike and taken trials with plasma plug and gasoline, It gives good power to bike, battray drained complitly, then used 12v 60Amps , but before I take trial with water and hot engine, burnened inverter
Also the GEET system was able to use 50% to 70% water with the gas mix but they could not go over that.
lemonade helps to mix gasoline and water, But high corrosion
but carbon fiber is a pretty good conductor .
Use teflon rods.
have you tried to break the ceramic out of a sparkplug?
Heat spark plug, before doing any machining, it will not crack
Today I am getting 4 Stroke bike engine, for stand alone test.
Use teflon rods....wouldnt that slip out..HAHAHAHA..j/k
What about G10 platics? Seems that might work. here is a quote...
"G10-FR4 / *MICARTA?/ GAROLITE:
SHEETS, TUBES, and RODS plus Machining - Fabricating capabilities.
G10 FR4 laminate grades are produced by inserting continuous glass woven fabric impregnated with an epoxy resin binder while forming the sheet under high pressure. This material is used extensively in the electronics industry because its water absorption is extremely minimal and the G10 line of materials is not electrically conductive. The G10 FR4 is most commonly used in PCB (Printed Circuit Boards) applications. G10 exhibits superior mechanical and dimensional stability and doesn't shrink. Temperature ratings of 180 degrees C.(not enought?) In addition to these properties, G10/FR4 has excellent dielectric loss properties, and great electrical strength. The difference between Grades G10 and FR4 is that FR4 is a fire retardant grade of G10. FR4 (also known as Garolite) can be substituted where G10 is specified; G10 can never be substituted for FR4. G10 is also known as Micarta and Garolite and can be used for structural supports, buss bars, mechanical insulation, gears, test fixtures, washers, spacers and tight tolerance machined parts for electromechanical assemblies."
Quote from: capacitor70 on June 21, 2008, 11:18:49 PM
but carbon fiber is a pretty good conductor .
Use teflon rods.
If I remember right teflon can take around 900 degrees ..... that is probably high enough
The problems with teflon is it is slick and fairly soft ....... in short it is "squishy' under presure ......... with repeated temprature changes the core of the plug would eventually pop out .......possably at great speed
Quote
Today I am getting 4 Stroke bike engine, for stand alone test.
good luck with your engine
gary
Quote from: xbox hacker on June 21, 2008, 11:28:54 PM
Use teflon rods....wouldnt that slip out..HAHAHAHA..j/k
What about G10 platics? Seems that might work. here is a quote...
"G10-FR4 / *MICARTA?/ GAROLITE:
SHEETS, TUBES, and RODS plus Machining - Fabricating capabilities.
G10 FR4 laminate grades are produced by inserting continuous glass woven fabric impregnated with an epoxy resin binder while forming the sheet under high pressure. This material is used extensively in the electronics industry because its water absorption is extremely minimal and the G10 line of materials is not electrically conductive. The G10 FR4 is most commonly used in PCB (Printed Circuit Boards) applications. G10 exhibits superior mechanical and dimensional stability and doesn't shrink. Temperature ratings of 180 degrees C.(not enought?) In addition to these properties, G10/FR4 has excellent dielectric loss properties, and great electrical strength. The difference between Grades G10 and FR4 is that FR4 is a fire retardant grade of G10. FR4 (also known as Garolite) can be substituted where G10 is specified; G10 can never be substituted for FR4. G10 is also known as Micarta and Garolite and can be used for structural supports, buss bars, mechanical insulation, gears, test fixtures, washers, spacers and tight tolerance machined parts for electromechanical assemblies."
This might work good
I think I would trust ceramic more though .......if the details of how to get it done can be worked out
gary
try mcmaster-carr for ceramics
www.mcmaster.com
catalog page 3531 at the bottom
also search the site for ceramic tubes
Quote from: gregs78cam on June 22, 2008, 04:48:23 AM
try mcmaster-carr for ceramics
www.mcmaster.com
catalog page 3531 at the bottom
also search the site for ceramic tubes
Thanks Gregs
That would have taken me a while to find .
At $ 85. for 10 pounds it is a little out of my budget at the moment ..........but it is doable in the near future
gary
OUCH!!! $85....lol but it does seem that the two-part casting compound will work!
"Two-Part Casting Compounds
Easy-to-mix casting compounds capture intricate details when casting prototypes, molds, and linings."
"Alumina Ceramic -200? to +3000? F 1800 psi"
but.... 10 pounds should make you dozens of plug sets...LOL
Cap70: I cant wait till you post details about the latest engine trials!!! I hope all works well for you.
22vision
Here is simple circuit for engine timing modification to any angle.
Engine timing modification circuit is pending for new engine, not yet tested.
Use bridge rectifier and capacitor on magneto to get 12V.
Search for CDI. you can get more ideas.
Cap
I got the cap discharging when it hits about 280V it jumps back I have been playing with the freq and the freq on
the flyback in was abou 5Khz this produces nice plasma spark but the cap does not discharge if i take this down
to 100 - 300 hz the cap discharges. Also the transformer on the other side with the cap the frew is about 5Khz I am
going to try and up that a bit but I need to get another one (I am using a radio shack generic ATM) I did get the cap to discharge
adn I rpt a bit of water on the plug and I am getting blue plasma and some redish glow for a moment then it goed back
to the blue arc again. So the issue was a combination of the freq, MORE diodes and a resister on the + of the cap about
400K then I am seeing somthing different. When I do put some water on the plug NOT shorting) like I said I get some red sparks and poping. How loud should this thing pop? I assume varily loud. I get a very high pitched screaching off the cap also but no loud boom,
bang, just a craclke.
I am going to replace the transformer on the cap charging circuit and allow some more current through I just relized that the transformer
I am using is only 500ma lol this should charge the cap faster and create a better bang! I will let you know how it works out.
Nice Ieda on the timing I started to put together a circuit to do it but yours looks like it should work.
Later,
22Vision
For some of you guys that are working with smaller engines, single piston, Briggs&Stratton ect. If your looking to change the ignition timing, simply remove the keyway in the flywheel and move flywheel to desired setting. Now tighten the flywheel down, tighter than normal but don't get crazy. I did this on racing go-carts for years and never had one slip. Of course if possible use a degree wheel so changes can be recorded. Great work guys!
THIS TOPIC HAS OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAAAAND VIEWS!!!!
Wow :o
How hard is it to change the keys on a small tecumseh engine? I thought it involved welding or cutting off the original key. It seemed hard to me. Maybe I'm mistaken?
Quote from: 22vision on June 22, 2008, 12:33:06 PM
I got the cap discharging when it hits about 280V it jumps back I have been playing with the freq and the freq on
the flyback in was abou 5Khz this produces nice plasma spark but the cap does not discharge if i take this down
to 100 - 300 hz the cap discharges.
Do not use high frequency for flyback, engine gives pulse to ingnition coil acording to its RPM,
If waste spark system is used then Frequency of ignition coil is equal to the RPM of engine, if no waste spark then it is half of RPM.
It will not go more than 6KHz. for idal speed it is below 300Hz
Quote
How hard is it to change the keys on a small tecumseh engine? I thought it involved welding or cutting off the original key. It seemed hard to me. Maybe I'm mistaken?
SG, they do make off-set keyways but they will only change timing a few degrees. I get the impression you guys are going to take a big swing at moving timing and you will need to remove the key altogether. Keep in mind that moving timing just a little on a gas engine affects it alot, meaning it might not start and/or yank the crank rope out of your hand, not sure if this plasma deal will be as tedious. If we knew roughly where piston needed to be in relationship with firing we could use a degree wheel and zero in the correct timing.
To answer your question, take off nut or crank assembly from engine (flywheel). Take a punch and hammer and whack the center of the crankshank, as if your trying to drive the crank through the flywheel. This may take two or three hits but nine times out of ten the flywheel will pop loose, if it doesn't you may need a puller though I\ve never had to use one. The key will be stuck on either the flywheel or crank, take your punch and tap it off and your done.
About 30 - 40 degrees after top dead centre should be an ideal timing setting for a water explosion system like this. 35 degrees atdc should get it firing up smoothly although you should still get a response from the engine of some kind at the default timing setting. Hell, Paul got his to almost idle without changing timing I believe. All he used is an MSD-7, bigger injectors, and more fuel rail pressure (80 psi). This was on a car with all the computer crap (1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse).
Starter motor,
I tried to use my drill machine as starter motor, but it rotates in opposite direction, I swapped brushes to change direction it worked, but brushes become very hot and creating more arc. torque is reduced in opposite direction. I think it is not safe for drill machine.
MUST SEE THIS VIDEO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxGeW4XXowc
FROM chris
he is operating water injector through switch. Water is injected on plsma.
I will try this soon
ChrisPCrunchy :
1. System is working on lawn mower but I have to build three more to make 4 cylinder car run.
2. Do you use a modified spark plug like the firestorm one?
No This system is using carbon electrodes.
3. Yes and to render gas innert by converting the Oxygen into carbon monoxide so that
hydrogen cannot reignite in the plasma arc due to lack of oxygen and the Hydrogen will not ignite until it is in contact with out side air.
4. It runs off the car battery. There is hign voltage pulses as well as R.F. generated by the driver circuit as well as about 5.5 K volts on the (grid circuit but only at about .39mA)
5. I use distilled water so I am sure of its consistant properties.I could use any water (Filtered) But the resistance and other properties would vary with each batch causing considerable tuning and retuning of device each time.
6. It uses plasma to disassociate the water molicules. Gases produced are not just Hydrogen and oxygen. It produces a type of Hydrocarbons, Hydrogen is not suitable for use in an internal combustion engine as it causes Hydrogen Embrittlement of hardened metals damaging engine over time.
7. What is the device your holding in your left hand? Also can you go into more detail on how you constructed the plasma injector system?
I am holding a circuit board with a switch which I press to activate a solinoid valve and release the gas. The solinoid wont activate until enough pressure is generated to prevent any air flowing back into cell. This experiment is very dangerous, It blew up shortly after these videos, so I dont want to give details or plans until it is more reliable and safe.
Carbon monoxide is highly poisonous, I think dont try this...
Steam trials on plasma plug1. Normal Steam. 2. Steam produced after plasma blast.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tb3d_hf7R10
;D
I wish, no this was posted by s1r9a9m9 7 hrs ago I am subscribed to a yahoo grp also trying to replicate this and s1r9a9m9 is talking on it. Here is the grp if you are intrested WaterFuel1978@yahoogroups.com you need to go to yahoo and register.
Also Cap I am getting an ignition coil today yay this flyback is posing issues. will keep ya all posted.
Things just get better and better don't they!? Everybody who is working on a booster: take a break and work on something that can run an engine NOW. It works, this video proves it. And by the looks of it, it's even simpler than I thought, he just runs the inverter wires DIRECTLY to the plug! Looks like the only thing he modifies is the ignition coil lead, which runs into the cup.
Quote from: Super God on June 23, 2008, 10:28:31 AM
Things just get better and better don't they!? Everybody who is working on a booster: take a break and work on something that can run an engine NOW. It works, this video proves it. And by the looks of it, it's even simpler than I thought, he just runs the inverter wires DIRECTLY to the plug! Looks like the only thing he modifies is the ignition coil lead, which runs into the cup.
Woops looks like I messed up again, the inverter lead and ignition coil lead go into the metal cup. I wonder what is in there? Probrably some diodes I would imagine. It is off the shelf so it should be reletively easy to get.
YEAH....whats in the cup?!?
EDIT: This is from s1r9a9m9 @ waterfuel1978 group..
"I made a short video for every one to watch. It is a new 1 clyender
B&S 18 Hp engine that I purchased just for this video. I still did not show the parts I used because of the surging
problem.Once I fix the problem I will post a parts list. Yes they are in
the
silver covered cup where the three wires are. Yes the parts are that
small. Dont give up hope on me yet. It did take two years to get the
relays
right, and maybe it wont take as long with the electronic stuff.The video is in the links section here and it is on youtube. It
is
listed as ( a ) not the (A) . I tryed to put it in the files section
on the group but there is not enough room in there for it.I hope to make a video of the generator with the 305 V-8 engine
soon.
when I fix the surging thing.Watch it before the man takes it away.I expect that I will recieve more visiters now that this has
been
posted.&And yes that is water dripping from the bottle, as you watch you
will
notice that it was dripping every where. wouldn't want gas or alchol
to be every where like that right, much less hold it over the engine
while it is running. Also it is hard to see, but the bubbles that are being sucked in
the
bottle past the hose in the cap as the water is being used in the
engine.Now we move on. soon as I fix the surging the parts list will be
posted.
"
HACKER YOU ARE THE MAN!!!!!! Chet
ramset: LOL.....i didnt do it, it was s1r9a9m9, that was a quote from him on yahoo group waterfuel1978
He said he wont post parts till he figures out the surging....why no post the parts and let us help him with the surging! ???
Over 3 years ago he used relays to make his 1978 le camino run on water. Everyone has been waiting for him to post a part list for the relay version of his setup.......so now, i guess we will have to wait 3 more years for the solid state version part list...LOL
here is another quote from him:
"This engine has not been changed in any way the timeing is stock from
factory. The governer only works with fuel flow in the carb not just
the intake. It came to my attention that 15 percent of the fuel I am
buying at the pump is ethonal. This lowers the carbon content in my
fuel by the same amout. So I replace the lost carbon in the fuel with
one quart of oil per 10 gallons of fuel, I was suprised to find out
that this realy helped, a 1993 jeep grand cherookee 6 banger full
time 4X4 automatic saw and incress in milage ,,, From 14 to 16
before ,,To 22 to 26 miles per gallon after. With no incress in
exhaust emissions. I guess the catverter is working just as they did
in the 70's and 80's..
I am going to make one of those hho bubble makers and see if that 18
horse briggs will handle the stuff on its on. My son said he will
find the surge problem to give me more time for a few other projects
that need to got out."
why would you bother with HHO ....when you can run on pure water??
for anyone who has studied the video from s1r.... at the plug one leg of the AC is at the base of the plug and the white wire goes to the "mystery can" and their is a black wire twisted with it... where do you think it goes?
Quote from: xbox hacker on June 23, 2008, 03:19:12 PM
ramset: LOL.....i didnt do it, it was s1r9a9m9, that was a quote from him on yahoo group waterfuel1978
He said he wont post parts till he figures out the surging....why no post the parts and let us help him with the surging! ???
Over 3 years ago he used relays to make his 1978 le camino run on water. Everyone has been waiting for him to post a part list for the relay version of his setup.......so now, i guess we will have to wait 3 more years for the solid state version part list...LOL
here is another quote from him:
"This engine has not been changed in any way the timeing is stock from
factory. The governer only works with fuel flow in the carb not just
the intake. It came to my attention that 15 percent of the fuel I am
buying at the pump is ethonal. This lowers the carbon content in my
fuel by the same amout. So I replace the lost carbon in the fuel with
one quart of oil per 10 gallons of fuel, I was suprised to find out
that this realy helped, a 1993 jeep grand cherookee 6 banger full
time 4X4 automatic saw and incress in milage ,,, From 14 to 16
before ,,To 22 to 26 miles per gallon after. With no incress in
exhaust emissions. I guess the catverter is working just as they did
in the 70's and 80's..
I am going to make one of those hho bubble makers and see if that 18
horse briggs will handle the stuff on its on. My son said he will
find the surge problem to give me more time for a few other projects
that need to got out."
why would you bother with HHO ....when you can run on pure water??
The HHO can smooth out the performance issues and provide a little extra power I think.
Quote from: Super God on June 22, 2008, 10:54:04 PM
About 30 - 40 degrees after top dead centre should be an ideal timing setting for a water explosion system like this. 35 degrees atdc should get it firing up smoothly although you should still get a response from the engine of some kind at the default timing setting. Hell, Paul got his to almost idle without changing timing I believe. All he used is an MSD-7, bigger injectors, and more fuel rail pressure (80 psi). This was on a car with all the computer crap (1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse).
My gut feeling about the timing is that so far people have been running way to lean .
If we can get it running and get alot more water involved I think the timing should be closer " normal "
It seems to me that retarding the timing that much is giving away alot of power . it took energy to compress the air in the cylinder to the max pressure at TDC ....... 30 degrees later you have given alot of that compression away .
I am not an expert ......but I would think that 5 degrees after TDC should be enough . that way you can be sure that the crankshaft won't kick back
The only reason I can think of for retarding the timing 30 or 40 degrees would be if the water was condensing and forming a vacume before the exhaust cycle . If that is what is happening we need to get the engine temp up. ......... or slow down the burn
gary
Quote from: xbox hacker on June 23, 2008, 01:33:27 PM
YEAH....whats in the cup?!?
EDIT: This is from s1r9a9m9 @ waterfuel1978 group..
"I made a short video for every one to watch. It is a new 1 clyender
B&S 18 Hp engine that I purchased just for this video. I still did not show the parts I used because of the surging
problem.Once I fix the problem I will post a parts list. Yes they are in
the
silver covered cup where the three wires are. Yes the parts are that
small. Dont give up hope on me yet. It did take two years to get the
relays
right, and maybe it wont take as long with the electronic stuff.The video is in the links section here and it is on youtube. It
is
listed as ( a ) not the (A) . I tryed to put it in the files section
on the group but there is not enough room in there for it.I hope to make a video of the generator with the 305 V-8 engine
soon.
when I fix the surging thing.Watch it before the man takes it away.I expect that I will recieve more visiters now that this has
been
posted.&And yes that is water dripping from the bottle, as you watch you
will
notice that it was dripping every where. wouldn't want gas or alchol
to be every where like that right, much less hold it over the engine
while it is running. Also it is hard to see, but the bubbles that are being sucked in
the
bottle past the hose in the cap as the water is being used in the
engine.Now we move on. soon as I fix the surging the parts list will be
posted.
"
Xbox
Congradulations on getting it running .
You have gone along way toward showing how easy and practical it is .
I am guessing you didn't change the timing yet .
I would like to see you let it run for a while just to see if it runs better once it gets warmer
A question ....... what about t the choke ? was it required to get it running . Does choking it change how it runs ?
gary
Quote from: resonanceman on June 23, 2008, 06:55:01 PM
Xbox
Congradulations on getting it running .
You have gone along way toward showing how easy and practical it is .
I am guessing you didn't change the timing yet .
I would like to see you let it run for a while just to see if it runs better once it gets warmer
A question ....... what about t the choke ? was it required to get it running . Does choking it change how it runs ?
gary
OOoooopppppsss
After reading a few more posts I realised it isn't your video .
gary
LOL!!!!! ITS NOT MY VIDEO!!! ::) (i wish it was)
its from s1r9a9m9 himself!
SOOOO.... my thoughts are, in his car he had a mysterious relay....now its a mysterious little can..... i dont think we can wait another 3 years for a part list.
ALL these years and on the 23 of june 2008 he gives us this God bless its from s1r9a9m9 himself yah gotta love it common whats in the can Chet @Loner you got any ideas? looking at @chris vid I see a furnace
Quote from: Loner on June 23, 2008, 10:35:59 PM
PS. Great Video. Schematic looks very close to original with relay setup. I still have all
the original stuff I was able to gather from that. Keep up the great work.
Ummm... what schematic are you referring to? Cap70's or S1r's?
Also, the black wire in S1r's video is a ground to kill engine...
Quote
The black wire was for a cut off, if you look it dont go no where it
just hangs there, just touch this wire to the block and it kills the
spark to the plug. The hose was in the bottle about 2 inches.
Quote"I made a short video for every one to watch. It is a new 1 clyender
B&S 18 Hp engine that I purchased just for this video. I still did not show the parts I used because of the surging
problem.Once I fix the problem I will post a parts list.
Charging capacitor or shorting terminals of inverter without inductor, give surging problem..... Same is with me thats why I am using two transformer to
charge capacitor, it's not charging fast enough....But at least protect tripping of main supply....Relay contact is not important, relay coil is important....
Inverter shown in video is 400VA and
800VA Surge capacity, this is very important...
Why this exploded ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfk8jXVUF34
"Ran this HHO fuel cell on 12 volt -worked well.
Ran at 150volt & cell drew more current than internal connections could handle.
Wires got red hot & ignited HHO gas.
Now we use larger gauge wires,
fill HHO cell to the top(less HHO gas inside cell)install a pressure release valve & any new
test is done with open top fuel cell(HHO will dilute into air-harmlessly).
We learn from our mistakes. "
I think the Bubbler was closed
Today I tried my plasma spark plug with 315V DC but no observable change in blast, it is nearly same as 175V DC previous trials
here is modified circuit, now I dont have any transformer.
You can try this circuit with reduced 1N4007 Diodes
.
Use resistance of 2 to 10 MOhm, parallel with 6A4 diodes to prevent arcing inside the diode. (Conform resistance value)
I have not tried parallel resistance.
See this link
http://www.powerdesigners.com/InfoWeb/design_center/articles/Diodes/diodes.shtm
Also taken trial on engine, not working.. :( with steam
200W bulb is to reduce surge current.
take care ELECTRICAL HAZARD, do it at your own risk
Hello Capacitor !! ..i?m new in the forum... ;D
Question about your circuit :
Is the left side of the circuit correct ?...(at the left of the spark plug).These 230 VAC are rectified to DC , and send via the diodes to a spark plug ...is this a correct idea ?...(you ever have DC over the spark plug)
In another hand ..you have a right side the circuit that send a pulses of high voltage....
But with both sides (left and right) added will obtain a DC with peaks of High voltage..is the idea of the original s1r9a9m9 design ?
Regards
Cap, What kind of spark are you getting with this? I pic would be great!
I have my coil up and running and I have an inverter (I blew up my 555timer inverter circuit) do
to a faulty test board but I do have an in car inverter 110v 750w but I am scared to try it there
not cheep!
22vision
Is the left side of the circuit correct ?...(at the left of the spark plug).These 230 VAC are rectified to DC , and send via the diodes to a spark plug ...is this a correct idea ?...(you ever have DC over the spark plug)
Yes 300 VDC is on plug, when high voltage pulse is given it create plasma channel, plasma have zero resistance it discharges capacitor it makes blast.
Cap, What kind of spark are you getting with this? I pic would be great!
Same as previous pictures, No differance
I have my coil up and running and I have an inverter (I blew up my 555timer inverter circuit) do
to a faulty test board but I do have an in car inverter 110v 750w but I am scared to try it there
not cheep!
DO NOT RUN DIRECTLY WITH INVERTER, USE SERIES BULB TO PREVENT SURGE CURRENT,
I have shown in this new circuit. I am using 200W bulb in series, if anything shorts it glows and protect your inverter. many times rectifier shorts and blow your inverter,
USE BULB IN SERIES
Cap70: on your setup.... are you going to use a common ground to the block for multiple plugs, or are you going to use a wire at each plug base? Also thank you for all your hard work and posts! At least you not hiding it in a tuna can.... ;D
Apph Arrgh! My ignition coil flat out BROKE OFF the engine completely today while I was running it on gasoline! Wow, what a set back. But it's not entirely bad news, this gives me an opportunity to find another ignition system for the engine. But, the engine does run, and it runs well! At least before the coil broke off. Anyone know of an electronic ignition that could be fitted to a small Tecumseh engine? I was thinking of whipping something up myself, I was going to use a hall effect sensor, a transistor, and a small doorbell transformer to do the job. I don't know if the doorbell transformer will be able to put out the volts I need, however. Any ideas?
-Brian
How big of a coil? Would one from a 24 v doorbell transformer secondary or primary be good enough?
Hey everyone....here is new video from s1r9a9m9 !!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBCl3OdM9Y4
LOL...he drinks the water!!! LOL (some peeps thought it was gas in video 1)
ALSO...this is NOT my video and NOT my work, i am just passing on the info :D
are you going to use a common ground to the block for multiple plugs, or are you going to use a wire at each plug base?
I dont have multiple cylender engine, no multiple plugs
SuperGod
You need ignition coil or go for black and white TV flyback transformer.
flywheel >> magnet >> Relay Coil (hall effect) >> rectifier(for relay coil) >> transistor >> ignition coil >> HV
Again, I won't go into the other aspects, as in Cap types, instant current, and all that. I'm
sure that you have been setting this up longer than I have, for this app
For this, I assume a waste spark, unless,
adjust values as needed to get the biggest LV pulse at the desired RPM.
In my video I observed many of the sparks are not visible, but it gives sound, capacitor gets discharged instantly, i need slow discharge to transfer enough heat.
DO NOT TRY MY LAST CIRCUIT WITHOUT TRANSFORMER, IT GIVES ELECTRICAL SHOCK TO ANY WIRE, INCLUDING GROUND
insterting coil in series with LV changed its sound to poof, and duration of plasma is much improved
Hi all,
please have a look at my s1r9a9m9 replication attempt. I also found something that is very intersting (to me amyways).
Have a look at this video first: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3S_PA3RVCY
then have a look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhXPEHM7Cv4
Please let me know what you all think since I seem to be thinking this RE Plasma Flame could be use for the s1r9a9m9 ignition process ???
Thanks for looking.
Luc
Hello Luc,
it would be a good idea to post handwritten diagrams here along with your videos. It is hard to figure out what exactly the set-up looks like only by means of your video-capture.
thank you Luc
Kator01
Luc: I love the second vid...nice light show! You need to get a low resistance plug and see it it can jump the gap, in you vid it looks like you have to make contact to get it to work (i could be wrong)
I think we should all work twice as hard and beat S1r to the punch in releaing the schematics.....LOL
Very good! The coil is limiting the current and thus saving your inverter. I like that flame. Make sure to protect your inverter and the coil with diodes.
gotoluc,
Those are some great videos do you have a schematic of the setup is it simular to cap's original design well the second one with the coil? if you have a wireing diagram
and parts list that would be great!
Cap,
I am still having an issue with feedback with my diodes I am using 1n4948 1500v 1A diodes in series and I am getting HV bleed if I connect 20 in a row then I get no bleed
I am going to connect some 10ohm resistors in parallel with the diodes to even out the voltage I should also use some amall HV caps in parallel with the diode's also
I will post a scha soon when I get somthing worth showing.
22vision
Quote from: xbox hacker on June 25, 2008, 08:30:49 AM
Luc: I love the second vid...nice light show! You need to get a low resistance plug and see it it can jump the gap, in you vid it looks like you have to make contact to get it to work (i could be wrong)
I think we should all work twice as hard and beat S1r to the punch in releaing the schematics.....LOL
Hi xbox hacker, thanks for looking at my videos. I have no dough it can jump the gap with either tests since I tried it with up to a 1/2 inch gap and it still works with cap discharge or Plasma Flame.
I just got to find the currage now to add water. I think I'll test the setup outside. After tests I will post the schematic and the video of the test that works best. However it looks to me that only 2 microwave oven diodes are needed, I get no bleeds with just 2 of these diodes, so if you see a microwave in the garbage which In my city alone throws out about 30+ per day. I have collected many Transformers, Capacitor, HV Diodes and Shaded Pole fan motors from them which I use in numerous projects. I also pickup CRT monitors which are now all over the place, they are a great source for all kinds of diodes transistors and caps. I is a shame to see all the waste of perfectly reusable components in our contries at this time.
Anyways all this to say you don't need to buy anything, just shop around on garbage days.
Stay tuned
Luc
Quote from: 22vision on June 25, 2008, 09:51:19 AM
gotoluc,
Those are some great videos do you have a schematic of the setup is it simular to cap's original design well the second one with the coil? if you have a wireing diagram
and parts list that would be great!
Cap,
I am still having an issue with feedback with my diodes I am using 1n4948 1500v 1A diodes in series and I am getting HV bleed if I connect 20 in a row then I get no bleed
I am going to connect some 10ohm resistors in parallel with the diodes to even out the voltage I should also use some amall HV caps in parallel with the diode's also
I will post a scha soon when I get somthing worth showing.
22vision
Hi 22vision, just use one microwave oven Diode on each side (2 total). It works for me and I get no bleeds.
Schematic is comming as soon.as I have tested what works best.
Stay tuned
Luc
ok great thanks for the info, I am going to go pickup a few microwaves cheap today and take out the diode's I assume there are more than one I can rip out of there
I guess I will find out. Also what caps are U using microwave ones? AC/DC oil filled? ratings?
Thanks,
22vision
I watched the video again and looks like standard microwave cap's!
I hope this dude calls me back for 2 cheep microwaves hehe I want
to get this puppy started!
Hi everyone,
great news to share ;D please go here asap: http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5024.new.html#new
Luc
To anyone that has successfully achieved a "plasma spark" or "plasma flame" can you elaborate on how many amps were used in conjunction with the high voltage?
Capacitor 70,
I noticed your awesome circuit designs are all based on 220-240 VAC 50 Hz mains. We here in the USA are on 110-120 VAC 60 Hz Mains. Not being a circuit engineer, how does one convert your circuits to operate with 110-120 VAC 60Hz? Thank you!
Respectfully,
Geo
I am toying with the idea jerry2000 gave me on waterfuel1978, use a transformer! We could combine and amplify signals very easily that way!
22vision
make sure drop across diode, consider your using 20 diodes 0.7V drop across each diode
0.7X20=14V you need more than 15V to operate it, It may not be probem for your design.
geovel56
Dont wory about 110-120VAC it will give you 155V DC charge to capacitor, no problem
at all. use bridge rectifer. I am reducing it to get 175V DC.
Now I have 6A10 diodes, 1000V 6Amps
Quote from: gotoluc on June 26, 2008, 06:04:40 PM
Hi everyone,
great news to share ;D please go here asap: http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5024.new.html#new
Luc
Why two subject ? and same discussion.... :( :(
See This It is same, but more powerful
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjBkqNc0GrQ
Quote from: capacitor70 on June 28, 2008, 11:55:56 PM
Why two subject ? and same discussion.... :( :(
Cap70, this thread started off as documentation of SuperGod's s1r9a9m9 replication. He has not posted much recently on his status, and we have kind of gotten off that subject. The other thread is Luc's call-to-arms to hammer out a common theory to work from and to open a forum where we can all build on each other's work. I think it would be proper to use Luc's thread to share theories and get back to documenting SuperGod's project here.
I know you have a lot to share as well, perhaps you would want to start your own thread for your project(s)?
-carbully
Hi Capacitor 70,
Now I have 6A10 diodes, 1000V 6Amps
Those ought to work in the can fine.
Hope it's ok to post the same here.
i started following here and saw some awesome work
you guy's are Great! Keep up the good work!
i'm in and out of here.
These are s1r original diagrams i found years ago! on the web.
there are details on these drawings i think he drew it as he saw it.
the contacts look like they touch the coil pole peices i've seen that before
could have a magnetic effect charging and discharging when switching
or coil boosting, need to draw it up energized. that i did. also
unenergized with those thoughts in mind. On drawings and off drawings.
i interperted the can drawing, hope they can work or be usefull.
I think that he was talking about not forgeting the coils. (Relays)
Can't wait to see his car video! or better yet Y'all go and do it first.
Get on it... Yeah!
drawings attached.
Thanks,
mrock
I have been reading s1's material and I'm having a hard time figuring out that two coil-5 "rocker" relay. It would be nice to build one if no one knows where to buy them. But switching the 20Kv would be a challenge for any relay I have ever seen.
Has anyone tried using a heli-arc welder for the plasma arc power source ( across a spark plug)? I may be able to try it in the next few weeks.
Richard
Working S1r replication! (on the bench..lol)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuK80kL6O64
I am so soorrry about the quality, its from a phone....LOL ::)
here is the schematic i used to make it work...the most minimal of parts!
Still waiting on parts. Man this is killing me because I want to get back into this!! I can't wait to try some of the many new ideas posted lately.
Quote from: Super God on June 29, 2008, 09:13:58 PM
Still waiting on parts. Man this is killing me because I want to get back into this!! I can't wait to try some of the many new ideas posted lately.
What parts are you waiting on? I got all my stuff locally, and was up and running that day. I do want to get some big diodes from ebay... but they will come from hong kong... so then i will be waiting too...LOL
capacitors and 6A10 diodes
Waste spark removal circuit.
There is also a waste spark in most DIS engines (computerized) and the like. It uses one coil for two plugs and they both fire at the same time. Maybe we can overcome this somehow.
Quote from: Super God on June 29, 2008, 09:13:58 PM
Still waiting on parts. Man this is killing me because I want to get back into this!! I can't wait to try some of the many new ideas posted lately.
Patience, grasshopper, a virtue given only to the wise.
:D
A virtue I have very little of --- :D ;D
You are going through research withdrawl, a drug you are now hooked on. Take it from a fellow addict - it will bother you constantly. Unfortunately, there is no known cure short of doing more research. LOL!
Good luck Brian, keep up the good work!
xbox hacker :
About your schematic:
You obtain AC 110v of your inverter,yes ?..but this is AC, and you send it to a spark plug whit a serial diode , yes ?. Are one point that your obtain 0 volt at your spark plug....(semi-senoidal signal each 50 hz ...).
That is what we're looking for?
would be wrong to rectify and put a capacitor before the microwave diode ?
Quote from: pablitosax on June 30, 2008, 12:39:07 PM
xbox hacker :
About your schematic:
You obtain AC 110v of your inverter,yes ?..but this is AC, and you send it to a spark plug whit a serial diode , yes ?. Are one point that your obtain 0 volt at your spark plug....(semi-senoidal signal each 50 hz ...).
That is what we're looking for?
would be wrong to rectify and put a capacitor before the microwave diode ?
In the real S1r video on youtube, he would appear not to be using a bridge rectifier...one leg of the 110v to the can and one to the base of the plug.
Cap I am having some issues I had some great spark but never with the inverter connected so I figured I would try
so I went and got a 25$ inverter 400W and reied it and POOF smoke and fire came out of it! I didn't catch anything on fire thank god!
any Iedas as to what might be wrong sorry for the bad pic!
If I disconnect the inverter circuit all works well and I get a nice spark but if I connect well...............poof
or no spark at all!
Quote from: 22vision on June 30, 2008, 07:11:14 PM
Cap I am having some issues I had some great spark but never with the inverter connected so I figured I would try
so I went and got a 25$ inverter 400W and reied it and POOF smoke and fire came out of it! I didn't catch anything on fire thank god!
any Iedas as to what might be wrong sorry for the bad pic!
If I disconnect the inverter circuit all works well and I get a nice spark but if I connect well...............poof
or no spark at all!
Could be that your spark is more powerful than all your combined diodes and is going back to the inverter. Remove the 'dc pos lead' from the bridge rectifier, remove the spark plug and see if you can get the 'dc pos lead' to arc against the grounding point you just took off the plug, this would mean that your diodes are not overcoming the HV from the coil. Please dont touch the terminals like i did.. numerous times. I am having the same issue currently as my jacobs ladder makes the coil run at far greater frequency than a car would.
Hi :
We can found schematics about s1r9a9m9 in this link :
http://sdch2o.free.fr/vrac/ (download the watercar.rar archive )
regards.
Quote from: 22vision on June 30, 2008, 07:11:14 PM
Cap I am having some issues I had some great spark but never with the inverter connected so I figured I would try
so I went and got a 25$ inverter 400W and reied it and POOF smoke and fire came out of it! I didn't catch anything on fire thank god!
any Iedas as to what might be wrong sorry for the bad pic!
If I disconnect the inverter circuit all works well and I get a nice spark but if I connect well...............poof
or no spark at all!
maybe this will help.
thanks,
mrock
just installed waste spark removal system, needs testing.... ;D
Great! Can't wait to see the results!
;D
4000V 16Amps and 160Amps for 8mSec surege configuration,
Advantages
1. Four diodes of 1000V@6A are not capable to block HV. But three SCRs with 600V@16Amp capacity blocks HV successfully.
2. Low drop actross SCR's, low energy loss.
3. Nearly four times High Current and voltage capabily compared to diodes.
4. Small size.
I think this is best, NEED TESTING WITH CAPACITOR, I burned my rectifier circuit...
RECTIFIER NEEDS TO BE IMPROVED, NOT WORKING, BURNED MORE THAN 12 DIODES 6A4. DO NOT USE 6A4 FOR RECTIFIER UNTIL YOU HAVE ENOUGH DIODES.
GREAT WORK cap70!! :)
Keep us up to date on your findings...
Quote from: pablitosax on July 01, 2008, 05:14:34 AM
Hi :
We can found schematics about s1r9a9m9 in this link :
http://sdch2o.free.fr/vrac/ (download the watercar.rar archive )
Are you talking about the watercar.pdf there or did the .rar file go missing?
And although something similar has been asked before, I do get the impression
that what is happening in this thread now and what is happening in Luc's "urgent!" thread
is so similar, that it seems the same stuff is repeated in both threads...
Yes, in Luc's new thread there is clearly also some discussion going on about what
is happening, but the focus is clearly on replicating Luc&Ossies circuits and experiments
there...
And over here, although it started out as someones exact replication, it now looks
very similar, with several people building replications of the circuit that appears to be
basically the same as that discussed in Luc's new thread...
Am I missing something?
Oh, and just out of curiosity, how many have managed to replicate s1r9a9m9's setup
and actually have a car running on water that does not need its battery recharged every day?
'cuz that's what s1r9a9m9 did right? He managed to get OU water combustion going in his
V8 engine and has been driving his car for free ever since... right? :)
About :
Are you talking about the watercar.pdf there or did the .rar file go missing?
I say that you can found another related information but in this link:
http://sdch2o.free.fr/vrac/
and you can download the watercar.rar archive that have various archives inside whit any explanations about.
regards.
Quote from: Koen1 on July 02, 2008, 04:45:53 AM
Are you talking about the watercar.pdf there or did the .rar file go missing?
I could download the RAR File. Don't know what your problem was...
Quote from: Koen1 on July 02, 2008, 04:45:53 AM
actually have a car running on water that does not need its battery recharged every day?
Well, if you manage to drive a car on water and just have to recharge the battery every day, you got it. A car battery doesn't have way enough energy (about 1kwh) to run a car (not only in idle) for some longer time (> 10Min).
I don't know why luc created the other thread. We have gotten excellent results with capacitor70's circuit. User jcbx6 over in the waterfuel1978 group has gotten his volvo to run on water with the same circuit capcitor70 is using. So over here we are making progress rapidly. The postal service is slower than molasses so I still have to wait before I can get mine working too.
By the way, I don't think this system uses THAT much electricity that it would drain a battery. You would need two, however, because the starter motor drags down the voltage so much it would put the inverter in self protect mode.
Looking good so far, full steam ahead.
Quote from: pablitosax on July 02, 2008, 07:10:59 AM
About :
Are you talking about the watercar.pdf there or did the .rar file go missing?
I say that you can found another related information but in this link:
http://sdch2o.free.fr/vrac/
and you can download the watercar.rar archive that have various archives inside whit any explanations about.
regards.
Here are the direct links to download with one click :
http://sdch2o.free.fr/vrac/Watercar.rar
http://sdch2o.free.fr/vrac/watercar.pdf
Hope this helps.
Regards, Stefan.
I guess u can get power from external source for testing, or u can use car alternator (~1 KW @ normal rpm) ..for testing.
But yea idea is great ;). Ur using electrolysis to get some hydrogen and due hydrogen explosions what makes hight temperatures ...water expands (vaporizes) what is needed to run engine. ::)
Atm. im learning thermodynamics at school... And as u know at basic chemistry that u will need extreme conditions to get effective reaction. So it makes that u need very hight temperature ... volume (const) that makes pressure growing up ... and result is faster reaction and more energy.
Although water a steam (vapor) is way good way to run engine coz it is expanding exponentially.
It is very thermodynamical picture on what u can see idea "idea" :o
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fengr.bd.psu.edu%2Fdavej%2Fclasses%2Fthermo%2FFig2_11.gif&hash=16508fb6a4834cd99706f2480f78fd6947f83f4a)
Im pretty sure that there are thermodynamic simulators available on internet.
So u need to find balance between energy u put in and form of energy u want to get out (heat, expanding btw thease2 are pretty much linked ...)
Try to increase input power im pretty sure u will see grater results ::)
Good luck !
Quote from: Super God on July 02, 2008, 12:04:00 PM
I don't know why luc created the other thread. We have gotten excellent results with capacitor70's circuit. User jcbx6 over in the waterfuel1978 group has gotten his volvo to run on water with the same circuit capcitor70 is using. So over here we are making progress rapidly. The postal service is slower than molasses so I still have to wait before I can get mine working too.
By the way, I don't think this system uses THAT much electricity that it would drain a battery. You would need two, however, because the starter motor drags down the voltage so much it would put the inverter in self protect mode.
Looking good so far, full steam ahead.
?? We have gotten excellent results with capacitor70's circuit ??
Is this the circuit with the SCR's or with the diodes he just fried a few post ago ?
Perhaps we can have a sticky with the current working circuit that can be updated as improvements are made.
I think Luc started his thread before the circuit was posted as he was trying to figure out what was in 'the can' for the lawnmower video and was trying different ideas.
If we 'as a group' can come up with common 'off the shelf' parts to replicate running a lawnmower engine, then if one hundred + of us got engines running all over the world and released it on a certain date then the media attention would be too enormous to ignore and would be a lot harder to suppress.
Quote from: hydrocontrol on July 02, 2008, 02:24:27 PM
media attention would be too enormous to ignore and would be a lot harder to suppress.
It is not likely to happen like this .........the media was bought and paid for a long time ago ..
It has to happen by one person helping friends to get free of big energy .
Those friends then need to help their friends .
Once the media notices what is going on ...........and the powers that be see that it is to big to stop ..........THEN the media will get involved .
gary
@resonanceman: Actually I'm not quite as paranoid... ;)
Just as remark.
I saw you people are using Electrolyte Capacitors for the LV part.
If you do this, you have to be aware of certain facts:
* They are not made to withstand sudden discharges over a longer time!!! This means they will not live very long under such conditions!!!
* They have quite a high ESR, Even the low ESR types!!! This means, that even if you short them, the discharge current will not be very big, compared to a discharge cap. This means a good Electrolyte cap discharges maybe at about 10-40Amps and a discharge cap at about 1-4kAmps (1000-4000Amps)!!! Sure the discharge caps do cost a lot more. If you would like to get a good one which can also withstand high frequency discharges in the range of about 300uF they cost about $200 (e.g. 3x100uF of the WIMA GTO Caps, which would be able to yield a 12'000Amp discharge)
The second fact is therefore interesting as with the current circuit in my opinion it would not work with discharge caps, for the amp load on the diodes would be far too big. But if one would change the layout, it could work.
It would really be interesting to see the bang difference between a discharge cap and an electrolyte cap.
Pro for the discharge cap : Much more Amps, is made to withstand high frequency discharges
Pro for the electrolyte cap: Is cheap, Due to the high ESR, the discharge is slow, and therefore the bang will be strechted longer in time.
Capacitors are very very different and they got also very different characteristic charts.
Just look at the basic circuit, lv on one side protected by a string of diodes, hv on the other . This is the basic formula. Discharge cap looks like a good idea.
Quote* They are not made to withstand sudden discharges over a longer time!!! This means they will not live very long under such conditions!!!
* They have quite a high ESR, Even the low ESR types!!! This means, that even if you short them, the discharge current will not be very big, compared to a discharge cap. This means a good Electrolyte cap discharges maybe at about 10-40Amps and a discharge cap at about 1-4kAmps (1000-4000Amps)!!! Sure the discharge caps do cost a lot more. If you would like to get a good one which can also withstand high frequency discharges in the range of about 300uF they cost about $200 (e.g. 3x100uF of the WIMA GTO Caps, which would be able to yield a 12'000Amp discharge)
This is true my 330uF capacitor is now become faulty, internally shorted . But diode on LV discharge side withstand for such high current....
Diodes are not for protection, diodes helps to pass HV towards spark plug, without diode it works if you manage to generate plasma channel at spark plug tip.
HV given to secondry of coil does not affect it, coil resistance is very high. and High voltage spike will not damage diodes and capcitor.
SCR based desing problems
1. It requires proper voltage to make Igt=1.3mA to 5mA
2. Use of Low value of gate Resistance, creates problem of HV goes to LV side, and no plasma.
3. It is not sutaible for engine, once engine gets started voltage required to run goes low, and also current requirement becomes less. It is difficult with SCR.
4. I have not tried it with diodes 1N4148(use 4007), It may help much to solve this problem.
I raised this on the "break-away" thread and got little response so I'll try here as well - granted, we all want our cars running exclusively on water, but given the idiotic fuel prices now, how about trying the plasma-spark idea on an otherwise unmodified car engine - if this were to increase my mpg from its current 30mpg to 60mpg, (hey, I'm an optimist!) I for one would be elated! There is far, far more work put into HHO projects, with little hard data available that it actually provides a significant mileage increase...
Sprocket, I believe with the plasma system you should be able to tune your fuel system to extremly lean values and still keep the engine running smooth. This is the same as the firestorm plugs where they could get ridiculously high air fuel ratios and thus save a ton of gas. So with a little tuning (efie?) you should be bale to lean out your engine and get great results. I have not tested this, someday I will. But for now this is untreaded territory. It may be worth it, though. Good idea.
Quote from: Super God on July 03, 2008, 11:43:30 AM
Sprocket, I believe with the plasma system you should be able to tune your fuel system to extremly lean values and still keep the engine running smooth. This is the same as the firestorm plugs where they could get ridiculously high air fuel ratios and thus save a ton of gas. So with a little tuning (efie?) you should be bale to lean out your engine and get great results. I have not tested this, someday I will. But for now this is untreaded territory. It may be worth it, though. Good idea.
The key here is to "tune your fuel system to extremely lean values" which will be hard to do with newer cars. Basically reprogramming the cars computer for a different 'fuel mixture'. Not going to be easy as the car companies have made it difficult to tinker with the computer. If you got an old car it might be easier. Either way it would be worth a shot since it would use the standard gas fuel and not introduce water that would could change the dynamics.
QuoteThe key here is to "tune your fuel system to extremely lean values" which will be hard to do with newer cars. Basically reprogramming the cars computer for a different 'fuel mixture'. Not going to be easy as the car companies have made it difficult to tinker with the computer. If you got an old car it might be easier. Either way it would be worth a shot since it would use the standard gas fuel and not introduce water that would could change the dynamics.Quote from: hydrocontrol on July 03, 2008, 01:23:40 PM
Yes hydrocontrol you are very correct.
Trying to go very lean is going to be a difficult job on any vehicle, especially fuel injected engines.
A narrow band o2 sensor only has its correct output in a narrow range from the supposed "ideal" 14.7:1 ratio.
I believe you can only add a small amount of voltage to the sensors output with an EFIE before you start going so lean that the sensor is out of its range and you have no idea what the real A/F ratio is except that its either running like crap or the exhaust manifold(s) are starting to glow :o
A wideband sensor can go to about 22:1, but I also read this: "Liquid water kills wideband o2 sensors - instantly." from this website http://www.factorypro.com/dyno/4gasEGAvso2sensor.html (http://www.factorypro.com/dyno/4gasEGAvso2sensor.html). Whether this is true or not, I don't know, but I don't want to spend several hundred dollars on a wideband sensor to find out.
I think the safe way(and possible the only way) to do it is to install an exhaust gas temperature gauge and take some baseline measurements with no modifications and the motor in good running condition then start making the changes. Ideally you will notice power improvement and lower EGT because the heat has done its work in the cylinder instead of coming out of the exhaust. The vehicles computer aint gonna like it though because it will think its running too lean from the feedback of the o2 sensor.
Quote from: mikemongo on July 03, 2008, 03:11:43 PM
Yes hydrocontrol you are very correct.
Trying to go very lean is going to be a difficult job on any vehicle, especially fuel injected engines.
A narrow band o2 sensor only has its correct output in a narrow range from the supposed "ideal" 14.7:1 ratio.
I believe you can only add a small amount of voltage to the sensors output with an EFIE before you start going so lean that the sensor is out of its range and you have no idea what the real A/F ratio is except that its either running like crap or the exhaust manifold(s) are starting to glow :o
A wideband sensor can go to about 22:1, but I also read this: "Liquid water kills wideband o2 sensors - instantly." from this website http://www.factorypro.com/dyno/4gasEGAvso2sensor.html (http://www.factorypro.com/dyno/4gasEGAvso2sensor.html). Whether this is true or not, I don't know, but I don't want to spend several hundred dollars on a wideband sensor to find out.
I think the safe way(and possible the only way) to do it is to install an exhaust gas temperature gauge and take some baseline measurements with no modifications and the motor in good running condition then start making the changes. Ideally you will notice power improvement and lower EGT because the heat has done its work in the cylinder instead of coming out of the exhaust. The vehicles computer aint gonna like it though because it will think its running too lean from the feedback of the o2 sensor.
I feel it would be easier to get a gas powered generator going first and that will be the direction I will go first. Based upon the rising fuel prices the cost of transportation is not the only thing to start spiraling out of control so I figure if I got to sit at home in the future because I can not afford to drive to work then I might as well have some power at home so I am not sitting in the dark. ;D I am starting to get the feel that "Mad Max" may not be to far off. :-[
"Expect to pay more for power"
http://www.kpic.com/news/local/22768929.html
"$250 a barrel if this happens"
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080702/ap_on_re_mi_ea/oil_congress
@SG - exactly my thoughts regarding the Firestorm plugs - this would put them to shame! I would also think getting your engine to run lean reliably is a trivial affair, at least in comparasion to getting it to run exclusively on water! The cars computer is indifferent to what's tied onto the 02 connector, so 'fooling' it is not a big deal - there is just a voltage offset required, and there are a number of circuits already out there to do this...
Speaking of the Firestorm sparkplugs, (and not sure where else to post this...) I bought a few Bosch Super 4's, which having 4 earth electrodes, seemed the easiest way to attempt a replication. Unfortunately, at 6 euro a piece and after butchering one in an attempt to remove the fuse, (not possible - it's embedded in the ceramic) I decided to work with conventional plugs instead - put the three others in the car, but have not noticed any improvement whatever... Anyway, below is an ordinary sparkplug with a washer beaten into a dome-shape, attached to a HV source. The fuse cannot be removed from these either so it is powered from the top, the lead stuck to a small neo which in turn is stuck to the electrode. Not as impressive as it may seem 'cos the voltage is about 200K, mainly because the washer is too small, so the sparkgap is too large. Still fun to experiment with...
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi288.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fll190%2FSprocket_06%2FPhoto-0125.jpg&hash=a32ebc94f113fa70fea75d268877a4c4e0142395)
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi288.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fll190%2FSprocket_06%2FPhoto-0126.jpg&hash=45d5a2bd9b76082baefdb6c0086e49694baf81ef)
Great idea about the dome washer!!
WATCH WORKING s1r9a9m9 REPLICATION
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnUv6M0N6z4
Quote from: capacitor70 on July 04, 2008, 03:03:38 AM
WATCH WORKING s1r9a9m9 REPLICATION
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnUv6M0N6z4
@cap70
Sorry I didn't see anything that was supposed to be working? The lawmover engine spluttered and died several times. Is that what is "working"?
cheers
chrisC
Hello, everybody!
I'm from Romania (S-E of Europe ;) ), and don' know much about electronic or english language.
I don't claim to understand all the stuff you are talking about here, but I'm happy to see that some of you gain good results.
I tried to draw a schematic that is simplier, I think, that other seen here. But I don't know if it is correct.
Probably it takes more than 10 diodes for each sparkplug...
Probably that capacitor could be bigger (100-470uF)...
I'd very much apreciate if you give me your opinions about that.
Thank You!
This is second working trial with engine, It need more modification to get it continuously running.......This video shows engine starts with plasma water
explosion......I suggest start with single cylender engine then once you get result move to car engine, use high compresion ratio engine only.....
Chapeau! I shout a big "Respect" for this video-demo!
It shows, that the motor would run, but has problems sustaining the higher RPMs.
Maybe the motor doesn't get enough water to sustain the higher RPMs?
I personally think that most probabely a Plasma-Water Engine needs much more water than it would need gaz.
(As an example I see the youtube vid where one does see, that you get really quite big explosions if you use quite a big amount of water...)
Another reason could be, that the caps do not get recharged fast enough, but this would be easily checkable with an oscilloscope. But the kind how the motor dies, in my opinion more speaks for the out of water theory...
Maybe trying plugging a humidifier output to the air inlet of the motor would help. Just a guess. If it works better, excellent, if not, one point to draw from the list ;)
And maybe adding a starter motor, would help adjusting, for you have a continuously defined condition.
Quote from: Shanti on July 04, 2008, 03:43:10 AM
It shows, that the motor would run, but has problems sustaining the higher RPMs.
Maybe the motor doesn't get enough water to sustain the higher RPMs?
I personally think that most probabely a Plasma-Water Engine needs much more water than it would need gaz.
Another reason could be, that the caps do not get recharged fast enough, but this would be easily checkable with an oscilloscope. But the kind how the motor dies, in my opinion more speaks for the out of water theory...
Maybe trying plugging a humidifier output to the air inlet of the motor would help. Just a guess. If it works better, excellent, if not, one point to draw from the list ;)
I have taken very little trials with steam, change is obseverd but not confirm. better performs ....
Problems observed with water only (not steam)
many times it needs to clean spark plug, or wait until water on tip gets burn with LV DC, shorting of tip with water creates problem.
Diodes 6A4 gets very very hot and melts solder joints, but does not fail.
capacitor gets little hot, may be diode heating causes this problem...
rectifier must have higher rating...I dont know why 6A4, 6A10 diodes get shorted immidiatly as soon as I turn it on, but 1Amps 600V bridge rectifier worked..
I am using 50Amps rectifier and 330uF capacitor
Quote from: capacitor70 on July 04, 2008, 03:53:23 AM
Diodes 6A4 gets very very hot and melts solder joints, but does not fail.
capacitor gets little hot, may be diode heating causes this problem...
Well that doesn't sound good. What are the switching times of these diodes? Maybe they're too slow...
Or maybe if the plasma is really well developed and the resistance of the arc is almost 0, all energy gets dissipated in the diodes (instead of the plasma), which have quite a high voltage drop inherent.
To get rid of this, the only simple way I could imagine is to switch to a pure Trigatron-Scheme, which doesn't need diodes...
Or to try to damp the HV Spike right in front of the LV circuit with the help of some snubber cap, to protect the lv part without any diodes...
Surely then the HV first hast to reach the plug before it goes to the snubber!
Another idea could be to try to protect the lv part just with a small inductance. But this could be very critical in respect to the correct size for timing...If the inductance is too small, the lv part gets surged, if it is too big, the LV part isn't able to feed the arc soon enough, and no plasma will be made...
Bute these are just some ideas...
@Cap70
Is that small motor on your video a two-cycle motor? It kind of sounds like it is. If so, are you using soluble oil to lube the bearings?
Were you able to adjust the timing of the magneto or are you using an external automotive type ignition?
I have an electric start two-cycle engine, but i am wondering about rust and lube to the bearings in the crankcase. And, also how to adjust the timing in a simple way with an magneto. Of course, I realize each brand of motor is unique.
Thanks
Tishatang
Is that small motor on your video a two-cycle motor? It kind of sounds like it is. If so, are you using soluble oil to lube the bearings?
It is four stroke 100CC two wheeler engine.
Were you able to adjust the timing of the magneto or are you using an external automotive type ignition?
ignition timings are not modified.
I have an electric start two-cycle engine, but i am wondering about rust and lube to the bearings in the crankcase. And, also how to adjust the timing in a simple way with an magneto. Of course, I realize each brand of motor is unique.
Two sroke engine is not sutable for plasma system, water stays at bottom of piston.
These are some photos of carburator.
Which part of carburator is needed to modify to get it continuously running ?
I am not mechnical engineer please explain in detail, dont confuse me...
When I give choke it starts, without choke it dosent work at all....
@Cap70
Thanks for you reply
tishatang
With Choke you reduse the air going to the engine, so it get's more gass. (water)
So the little thing (carb nozzle) with 82 on it should probably be bigger.
i see you got out the whole nozzle but for the 82 one the nozzle can be seperated form the tube its on.
so if you get an other one do not be surprised to get only this
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F7%2F7b%2FSproeier1.jpg&hash=74e065a5e85affd1f962942682958f64ea40f79c)
it think the second tube with 6 or 9 on in is the idle nozzle, i do not know if you can get a bigger one for that?
and srew in the air screw so it gets less air.
Great work Cap70...i cant wait till your next video!
BTW... what design of yours are you running in the video? Is it the one with the SCR's or a older one??
Quote from: Super God on July 02, 2008, 12:04:00 PM
I don't know why luc created the other thread. We have gotten excellent results with capacitor70's circuit. User jcbx6 over in the waterfuel1978 group has gotten his volvo to run on water with the same circuit capcitor70 is using. So over here we are making progress rapidly. The postal service is slower than molasses so I still have to wait before I can get mine working too.
By the way, I don't think this system uses THAT much electricity that it would drain a battery. You would need two, however, because the starter motor drags down the voltage so much it would put the inverter in self protect mode.
Looking good so far, full steam ahead.
Hi Sg, I created the other thread because I found that water explosion could be achieved without a large capacitive discharge and that seems to be very interesting and worth looking at
just that. Also please note that S1R has said
his system does not use capacitors. So, in order to not create confusion in this thread since you are using a different approach I started a new topic. At this time my updated circuit (
on page one) of the topic I started uses only 1uf or 2uf depending on the inverter output.
Are you sure user jcbx6 at the waterfuel1978 group is
saying his Volvo is working on water at this time?
@capacitor70 my congratulations :D to you in demonstrating that it is truly possible to get a ICE to run on water ;)
Keep up this important research :) we will find the way to get this done one way or another.
Luc
Good Job Capacitor70 !! ;D
Viewing your video i'm thinked that wou engine needs more fuel (water)...remember , s1r9a9m9 said : "
ussing carburettor jets two sizes larger than normal".
And another probe that you can do is retard the ignition timming 35? degrees.
Amazing job ...really !!!!
Its not only my work, SuperGod, 22vision, resonanceman, Shanti guided me how to do it, I just followed steps...
WOW !!!
Real Fire Works for the 4th of July!
Awesome work!
ALL YOU GUYS AND GALS ROCK !!!
IT WONT' BE LONG NOW !
lots of hard work but it will pay off.
Congraduations to everyone and cap70.
thanks,
mrock
bigger jets, switch mode ps - hz up
Quote from: capacitor70 on July 04, 2008, 06:47:10 AM
Is that small motor on your video a two-cycle motor? It kind of sounds like it is. If so, are you using soluble oil to lube the bearings?
It is four stroke 100CC two wheeler engine.
Were you able to adjust the timing of the magneto or are you using an external automotive type ignition?
ignition timings are not modified.
I have an electric start two-cycle engine, but i am wondering about rust and lube to the bearings in the crankcase. And, also how to adjust the timing in a simple way with an magneto. Of course, I realize each brand of motor is unique.
Two sroke engine is not sutable for plasma system, water stays at bottom of piston.
These are some photos of carburator.
Which part of carburator is needed to modify to get it continuously running ?
I am not mechnical engineer please explain in detail, dont confuse me...
When I give choke it starts, without choke it dosent work at all....
Capacitor70,
In the 2nd image on this page. The jets need to be enlarged. You may be able to find larger jets which would simply replace these which are in place. These jets supply the amount of fuel to the venturi which meters the spray of fuel into the cobustion chamber. Hope this helps. If you can gain acccess to a schematic of the carburetor, you will see which jets lead to. Here you will be able to adjust the jets for idle, run, and high speed, by enlarging the hole size, orifice of these jets.
GOOD LUCK!
HHHONOW
Please explain me with reference to Jet diagram from above images, I am not mechnical engineer, I need to make big holes to all these three jets ???
Circuit used in working model.
DO NOT FORGET BULBS
@cap70
no not make bigger holes yourself, buy them, if you try to drill yourself you can break them or mess up the flow. or make them to big so you will flood your cylinder.
i replyd to your pm
Quote from: capacitor70 on July 04, 2008, 06:47:10 AM
Is that small motor on your video a two-cycle motor? It kind of sounds like it is. If so, are you using soluble oil to lube the bearings?
It is four stroke 100CC two wheeler engine.
Were you able to adjust the timing of the magneto or are you using an external automotive type ignition?
ignition timings are not modified.
I have an electric start two-cycle engine, but i am wondering about rust and lube to the bearings in the crankcase. And, also how to adjust the timing in a simple way with an magneto. Of course, I realize each brand of motor is unique.
Two sroke engine is not sutable for plasma system, water stays at bottom of piston.
These are some photos of carburator.
Which part of carburator is needed to modify to get it continuously running ?
I am not mechnical engineer please explain in detail, dont confuse me...
When I give choke it starts, without choke it dosent work at all....
Quote from: capacitor70 on July 04, 2008, 12:03:46 PM
Please explain me with reference to Jet diagram from above images, I am not mechnical engineer, I need to make big holes to all these three jets ???
Circuit used in working model.
DO NOT FORGET BULBS
Capacitor70,
YES, but you may be able to buy larger jjets which can simply be screwed into the holes. Use a scewdriver to remove the old jets, and replace with larger sizes. I would try to get larger jets, before drilling the old ones. You may be able to carefully drill the jets out holding them in a vice. HOPE THIS HELPS.
Would you post your electronic circuit clearly for everyone on the group?
HHONOW
QuoteIgnition coil must generate +ve
DOH!!!! I think that was my problem!!!
So... i will take the coil wire form the motor and put it to the base of the plug and then a wire from the block to the top of the plug, where the DC comes in. Do ya think that would solve my problem?
livingwater08
Would you post your electronic circuit clearly for everyone on the group?
It is on page 8
xbox hacker
Ignition coil must generate +ve, It is very simple just swap input wires...
Very Useful info From Unicorn
on this image the middle copper nozzle (tube with little hole)
it has a number on it. if you look good you can read 82 or 83.
this is probably to small, the higher the number the bigger the hole the more gas it will suck in to the engine maybe you can try a nozzle 90 or 100 maybe bigger they should be verry cheap so you can maybe buy 90, 100, 110, 120 and play around a little to get best results. if you find one that works the best you can fine-tune
for example 100 works but not realy stable and 110 floods your cylinder with to much water you can get 101 and 102 and test what works the best with these.
Tommarow I will buy some jets, Numbers are there on each jet
Capacitor70
Hi,
Been folowing this for a while and doing my own experiments, I dont know much about electricity but I own a mechanic shop and know my fair share about engines.
What is beign explained to you is this:
You state your engine only runs on choke, When the engine is choked it is requiring a richer air to fuel mixture. Most motorcycles etc, require a good choke until the cylinders get warmed up to provide a better cumbustion of the fuel. If it will run for a longer time on chojke dont worry about it. Let it be choked and se what occurs, What the person who posted the pics is trying to explain is that those are your jets. The jest provide the passage for the fuel to be delivered to the combustion chamber. By makes the holes in the jets larger you would provide more flow of fuel, hence instead of choking and removing air flow you are just adding more fuel to the air flow you have. When you choke an engine you are decreasing the air flow to increase the fuel to air mix. When you increase the jet size you are increasing the fuel, thus increasing the fuel to air mix.
In order to help you more i need to better understand how the water is being delivered to the engine.
are u connecting the water line to the same hose the gasoline came from?? if so then what i am stating is all correct. If its just a hose pouring water into the carberator than disregard my text.
another thing to ask is did this engine idle and run fine on gasoline. Carburators are funny things and if it didnt run well on gas dont expect it to on water fuel.
You may notice that i accept water as a fuel. Thats because i do, I am also an ASE master tech and accept this, which you will not find many of, congrats on the work, I hope to help you mechanically and perhaps you can help me electronically.
In regards to earlier post about the flywheel coil breaking of engine etc. Perhaps u can use parts off and old car distributor, all that is is a halofect switch and a coil. us the halofect switch from the distributer and a motorcycle coil. or the coil u had that broke off and use the distributer parts to rebuild your ignition system, the nice theing there is that it would eb totally adjustable timing wise
thanks for your time
Tim
and this is my ver first post, so i hope it helps some people
P.S
i see you are posting pictures capacitor70
Is it possible for you to tell me the engine u are using, IE the bike it cam off of. I can then get you some pics of the carbuerator and some better explanations of how it all works, I have allot of things at my disposal as for engine information.
I agree that the carburetor must be tuned for this application.
First thing is to increase the size of the idle jet (for fuel) and test. It is also a good idea to unscrew the idle mixture screw a couple of turns. This will have effect in idling and the transition regime.
The next is to increase the main jet, as the others said before me. Do not confuse the fuel jets with the air jets. The air jets don't need to be enlarged.
The main jet helps engine when throttling from, let say 2000 to 4000rot/min.
Pay attention to the float level as well. If too small, it will be hard to accelerate. If too high, the engine will suck fuel (water) trough the main jet too soon, getting worse mpg.
Yes, we need to know the type of carburetor to talk more specifically.
Maybe is a good idea to treat the water by passing it trough a small HHO cell, prior to send it to carb. That will help the water vaporize better and release easier the Hidrogen and Oxygen to be burned by plasma. Or at least heating the water through a copper pipe coiled to the exhaust pipe or the radiator hose, for better vaporisation, at least in the winter.
Capacitor70, I can't wait to see your engine running smooth, after adjusting the carburetor.
Good luck!
P.S:
What type of water do you use? Distilled? Tap water?
The ignition coil voltage is VERY important. Most of the time it will be nagative, but we need positive otherwise the diodes will hae to be reconfigured. This step should be highlighted. Also jet sizes increased is a must for revving. Good work and congratulations on being the first to replicate, if not second.
Quote from: capacitor70 on July 04, 2008, 12:44:51 PM
xbox hacker
Ignition coil must generate +ve, It is very simple just swap input wires...
Its a magneto...how do i swap the wires? ???
Quote from: xbox hacker on July 04, 2008, 03:48:22 PM
Its a magneto...how do i swap the wires? ???
Then use saperate ignition coil, like I am doing.
What type of water do you use? Distilled? Tap water?Its tap water. (bore water)
WARNING:
CIRCUIT IS OPERATED FROM MAIN SUPPLY, IT GIVES ELECTRICAL SHOCK TO ANY TERMINCAL AND BODY OF ENGINE, GIVE EARTHING TO ENGINE BODY. REMOVE SUPPLY PLUG AND DISCHARGE CAPACITOR BEFORE TOUCHING ANY THING.
I don't think is a good idea to use tap water in the carburetor... Sooner or later, the salts and chemicals in it will be deposited in the carburetor (jets, circuits, transition holes) and will decrease the amount of water delivered to engine.
The best for carburetor would be distilled water, or mounting some sort or demineralizing filter (magnetic ?) for water, before the carburetor.
When I look at your schema you're currently using, something does light up to me.
After the bridge the DC will be a 100Hz only pos-side sine-signal. So if the firing rate gets higher than this frequency, you will have e severe problem, for the loading voltage of the cap will change with the current sine voltage, so you will have a very uneven firing, with some firings at very low cap voltage (could be even near zero!).
So my suggestion would be to use either a much higher freq AC-signal. Or to us some big cap-battery after the bridge to have there a stabilized 320VDC, and to charge the firing cap with the help of a FET from this DC level. And the FET should obviously be in 0ff condition when you want to fire. Otherwise qour whole cap battery gets discharged in the spark...
A simpler solution would be to insert a resistor between the cap and the cap-battery to restrict the amps flowing from the battery, when the arc has established. At the same time, this also restricts the loading current for the cap. Which ist good, for the cap. But the loading time should certainly remain smaller than the firing rate...
Just again some thoughts by myself...In case anyone is interested...
But as I calculated, usually the firing rate of a ICE is not very high, so it most probabely can work directly with only a bridge rectified 50Hz AC, but it would surely then have some 100Hz Power differences overlayed...
Today I have taken trials with my 125CC 4 Stroke bike. Its not starting at all with water, not much bulb glow (may be plasma is not generating properly), not a single fire is observed. Spark plug gives good plasma checked before putting it into bike.
Then I given gasoline to start it normal, but it is not starting on gasoline also.
I have not checked spark plug after trials, Then I started plasma, still it is not running not a single fire, but suddenly it given a very very huge blast, sound came from silencer.... Blast sound is very very loud my neighbour come to my home to see that blast...I am scared to start it again....
Probably residu off gas in exhaust that exploded maybe an Afterfire/back-fire
can it be you have a leaking valve? or maybe the spark is also sparking somewhere it should not?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back-fire
Did your bike work well before starting these tests? If so, then you need to make the same adjustment of the carburetor as said earlier: put bigger fuel jets.
Also check the needle valve in the float chamber.
Could it be a timing problem? Check the proper tuning of this system.
Use another sparkplug outside the engine conected with wires and check the presence of the spark/plasma, trying to start the bike normally.
Try to clean/dry the carburetor after you use water. If water remains in it, the gasoline will pass very difficult to the engine, sometimes beeng blocked.
Could you make a clear photo of the sparkplug electrodes? One that had been used in that bike before testing with water.
The backfire occurs in the manifold. There is another type of problem, that makes big explosion-like sound in the exhaust pipe/muffler. Its cause may be the wrong timing, weak spark or carburetor running rich.
It seems that changing the fuel type recquires a lot of tuning...
Good luck!
Working hard to get it run..... Plasma system is on the bike, tomorrow I will take more trials.
as I told earlier water shorts spark plug, spark plug must get wet but not shorted with water on its tip. this create problem.
QuoteProbably residue off gas in exhaust that exploded maybe an Afterfire/back-fire
same thing is in my mind.
Another idea came in to my mind: what if you put under the carburetor some sort of a fixed turbine, propeller, or something that creates a vortex, that helps vaporising the water, so that the tiny droplets will not short the sparkplug.
Maybe another device like that must be developed to do the job.
Or, how about using this:
http://www.mainlandmart.com/foggers.html
Shanti : I was thinked exactly the same of you..
The frecuency of the inverter must be superior to 50 or 60 hz for
good response at high's rpm.
Look this schematic about a modern CDI...(read the explanation) use mosfets at high frecuency for a
good response of the "inverter" at high rpm and multi spark :
www.molla.org/DIY-CDI/SC-DIY-CDI-article-hires.pdf
I hope this serve.
Yes, a fogger is a nice device, but then you should feed the engine directly in the manifold, avoiding the carburettor.
Carburettors use only liquid fuels. Its job is to vaporize this liquid...
pablitosax and Shanti, you are right.
A big capacitor needs high frecquency to be charged quicly.
A good CDI uses high sonic or ultrasonic frecquency: 20KHz-50KHz. That is why I suggested to use an 555 oscillator instead of the inverter.
It takes only 31.8microsec (0.0000318sec) to charge a 100uF capacitor at 350V, using an oscillator that runs at 20KHz. Think about that.
That PDF presents the "John Clarke CDI". Two, maybe three of my friends in Romania tryed it, and it worked very well, giving more horsepower and better mileage.
If your drawing too much current, I'm assuming you need to reduce the resistance of your water. You could test the current of
1. The spark plug dry
2. The spark plug submersed in tap water
3. The spark plug submersed in de-ionised/distilled water
This could be done on the bench, though I'd take precautions it may be an explosive situation.
Good luck..
can someone tell me exactly in dumb-dumb terms what the light bulb in the circuit does?.....thanks all.
Quote from: whopper1967 on July 06, 2008, 12:28:15 AM
can someone tell me exactly in dumb-dumb terms what the light bulb in the circuit does?.....thanks all.
Prevent short circuit....also surge current, protect inverter, or prevent tripping of mains supply
thank you very much,really looking forward to the next video.....it was really impressive.
let me ask you something else,if using 110v,would it still be a 50 amp rectifier?thanks again.
capacitor70, I am not very skilled in electronics, but I have a few thougts about your schematic.
First of all, let's analise how your capacitor charges.
At 60Hz, after the bridge rectifier you will have 120Hz impulses. At this frequency, your 330uF capacitor has a internal resistance of 1/2 x pi x f x C= 4 Ohm.
Using a bulb, the resistance increases. I have measured a 100W/230V bulb, and it has 30 Ohms.
Let's say yours has 15 Ohms. This is added to the 4 Ohms of the capacitor, resulting 19 Ohm.
The time constant (T) now is R x C= 0.00627s, or 6.27ms.
The capacitor will charge at 98% of your 230V source in 4T=0.025s, or 25ms. That's a lot of time!
At 2500rpm, the engine makes 1 full turn in 24ms. Doubling the rpm, the time for 1 full turn is half than that. If it is one cylinder 4stroke engine, that means the spark fires every 2 turns.
Please measure the resistance of the bulb.
If your bulb has a bigger internal resistance, the results will be worse than that... And we need to add the on-resistance of the bridge too, although is not too big.
In your setup, if ihe capacitor is charged by the electric generator in your engine (bike), then probably it will not run at 60Hz when you try to start it. It probably needs to idle at 800 or 1000 rpm to do this. I am not shure of that, but you need to think about every thing...
The conclusion is that the bulb may protect the inverter, but it works against the capacitor.
The frequency is too low for the capacitor needs.
It would be better to find a way to stop the inverter for that period of time when the capacitor discharges, and to pull the bulb out of the schematic, allowing the capacitor to recharge faster.
These are my thoughts. Hope it will help somehow...
Good luck and don't stop!
I had a problem with the internet conection, and the post apeared twice...
Sorry...
Hello all!
Although it may be too soon to try...
Why don't drive part of exhaust gas directly into carburetor?
Just a more or less long tube to allow it to cool a little, exaust gas mut be mostly water perfectly conditioned to restart to blow.
I know it sound silly but maybe this is is the try-everything-time.
If anyone can try I will report as soon as I can complete test, may delay a little due to lack of time.
Please excuse if any unconvenience, my English and keyboard have their own ideas.
Cheers
Ri
Bulbs are for just experiment purpose, Previously I am using 700Hz 230V 100Watt Inverter, wattage is problem.
Inverter is in my mind, I am having 200Amps 1200V IGBT pairs for inverter, but right now more focus on starting engine in ideal to get all needed conditions.
major problem is right now is spark plug gets shorted with water and engine oil on its tip, many times it requires opening and cleaning again and again. On my table setup I checked different size spark plugs, 0.5", 0.75" and
1" diameter, I got best results with bigger spark plug. It gives both advantages prevent shorting and more area for
water burning. flame size is without water 0.5" and with water 1.5 to 2 inch in diameter. you can see these photos on previous posts it is with only 175V DC
For those of you suggesting doing this on a 2-stroke motor... It will ruin the motor very quickly.
In a 2-stroke engine the oil and gas mixture is pulled from the carburetor and then circulated through the engine crankcase before finally ending up in the combustion chamber.
This works the same in both oil injected and premixed engines. If you substitute water for the gas you will be lubricating your engine with an oil/water mix and the engine bearings will develop rust pits within days.
Also gapping the plug will make it harder for water to short it out.
Quote from: Super God on July 06, 2008, 10:42:21 AM
Also gapping the plug will make it harder for water to short it out.
More gap more HV blocking diodes....
DESIGN IS PAYING ATTENTION TO DETAILS
Quote from: capacitor70 on July 06, 2008, 09:58:51 AM
Bulbs are for just experiment purpose, Previously I am using 700Hz 230V 100Watt Inverter, wattage is problem.
Inverter is in my mind, I am having 200Amps 1200V IGBT pairs for inverter, but right now more focus on starting engine in ideal to get all needed conditions.
major problem is right now is spark plug gets shorted with water and engine oil on its tip, many times it requires opening and cleaning again and again. On my table setup I checked different size spark plugs, 0.5", 0.75" and
1" diameter, I got best results with bigger spark plug. It gives both advantages prevent shorting and more area for
water burning. flame size is without water 0.5" and with water 1.5 to 2 inch in diameter. you can see these photos on previous posts it is with only 175V DC
@Capacitor70, if your HV is shorting out with water try increasing the voltage on the coil, your schematic shows 12v on the primary. Some CDI systems operate the coil at 300v. Once the HV bridges the water you should be good to go and the LV should do it's thing..
Regards
RD
If you are getting oil fouling your plug,it sounds like bad oil rings.Do you have the hottest possible plug you can get for that application?
For those who wondered, how using a Trigatron would make the diodes not needed anymore...
Well a Trigatron is actually just a switched spark gap.
Well if you would like to see the principle of a Trigatron, look here:
http://www.angelfire.com/80s/sixmhz/trigatron.html (http://www.angelfire.com/80s/sixmhz/trigatron.html)
As I mentioned before, Britts AEROPS Engine uses the same principle, but with inert gases instead of water. He also uses a Trigatron for firing.
Just go here www.pat2pdf.org (http://www.pat2pdf.org) and download Patent Nr 3977191
And see for yourself how he did it. He used also the standard ignition coil circuit for triggering, and a capacitor charged to 500VDC for the working current...
The disadvantage is certainly the much more complex spark plug needed, now with 3 electrodes.
But actually I think, due to the fact, that an ignition coil doesn't have much energy per firing (about 50-100mJ), it would be the simplest just to use a good varistor in front of the LV Cap (maybe with an additional inductance in the lv discharge path), which protects the cap from the HV-Surge.
Then you also do not need any diodes in your circuit!
It would certainly need some fiddling until everything works as expected and not too much coil energy gets wasted in the Varistor instead of the spark plug.
BTW: I just bought an old 2kw generator and ordered 4 100uF 600V WIMA GTO caps...Let's see how big the bang goes...
(LOL, one of these caps is 90x97mm and capable of a 3500Amp discharge (that are 14'000Amps total ;D), Sadly they have 3 weeks delivery time...)
Quote from: Shanti on July 07, 2008, 12:23:19 PM
The disadvantage is certainly the much more complex spark plug needed, now with 3 electrodes.
I just saw these this weekend http://e3sparkplugs.com/
I also want to ask if anyone has tried an aircraft type sparkplug.
I work in the marine repair business and Mercury sells sparkplugs that do not have traditional electrodes. instead of an "L" shaped electrode it is more like a disk.
Any idea how this might change the way the circuit functions?
I am not shure, but the differrent shape of the spark's electrodes may require higher voltage. Anyway, a bigger spark gap does it.
I posted this in another thread but it may make more sense posting here where people are actually trying to get engines to run. This is a simple suggestion for those trying to get a motor to run. What if you remove the spark plug ground tab and just use the piston as the 'ground tab'. I would think that this would create an increasing electric arc size as the piston goes down from TDC and would help the water 'ignite, burn, turn to steam, whatever' to push the piston down. Why confine the electrical arc to a small predetermined gap. I know when I arc weld I have to get the arc started by being very close to the item to be welded but once I get an arc started I can draw the arc back a fair amount. Seems the same idea would hold for a piston engine electrical arc. If the piston can withstand a gas explosion then a electrical arc should not effect it. Now you may have to use a slightly longer plug just as long as it does not touch the piston top but I think that this may be very effective in always getting a great electrical arc.
Quote from: capacitor70 on July 06, 2008, 09:58:51 AM
Bulbs are for just experiment purpose, Previously I am using 700Hz 230V 100Watt Inverter, wattage is problem.
Inverter is in my mind, I am having 200Amps 1200V IGBT pairs for inverter, but right now more focus on starting engine in ideal to get all needed conditions.
major problem is right now is spark plug gets shorted with water and engine oil on its tip, many times it requires opening and cleaning again and again. On my table setup I checked different size spark plugs, 0.5", 0.75" and
1" diameter, I got best results with bigger spark plug. It gives both advantages prevent shorting and more area for
water burning. flame size is without water 0.5" and with water 1.5 to 2 inch in diameter. you can see these photos on previous posts it is with only 175V DC
Capacitor
have you changed your timing?
The compression pulse would be very fast at ignition ...........then condensation would happen very quickly ..especally with a cold engine
Your oil fouling might be from the water condenciing out and forming a vacume .......or imploding as some call it .
This would tend to suck the oil from the rings into the cylinder .
gary
Hydrocontro,
The arc will find a return path through the wrist pin, journal bearings and main bearings and also through the piston rings to the cylinder wall and make weld pits at those points. I have worked with rotating welding tables with and without brushes. The tables without brushes burned the bearings. A complex system of brushes could be used to carry the arc ground from the top of the piston to ground, thereby bypassing the weld pitting damage. I heard of this idea many years ago for a gasoline engine, but never heard of anyone trying to implement it.
For a similar effect perhaps two spark plugs in the same cylinder could be made to arc from the center electrode of plug A to the center electrode of plug B with a Tesla coil (large Tesla coils can throw sparks 30 feet in free air) if the entire circuit is made to float and not be grounded at either polarity.
Richard
Capacitor,have you thought about maybe running a hydrogen booster just long enough to get the motor warmed up,then switch to the pure water.I would think something like the smack booster I run would give you enough hho output to easily start your motor.I know that isnt the long term solution,but if you could get it running and warm,who knows,she might surprise you.It is bound to be much easier on your poor leg...ouch..
Quote from: whopper1967 on July 08, 2008, 02:10:45 AM
Capacitor,have you thought about maybe running a hydrogen booster just long enough to get the motor warmed up,then switch to the pure water.I would think something like the smack booster I run would give you enough hho output to easily start your motor.I know that isnt the long term solution,but if you could get it running and warm,who knows,she might surprise you.It is bound to be much easier on your poor leg...ouch..
Yes it is in mind but not tried it yet....
QuoteThe compression pulse would be very fast at ignition ...........then condensation would happen very quickly ..especally with a cold engine
Your oil fouling might be from the water condenciing out and forming a vacume .......or imploding as some call it .
This would tend to suck the oil from the rings into the cylinder .
Gary is very correct and I don?t think many if any are considering that effect that Gary is talking about. Everyone keeps thinking the water will burn. It does not BURN, it explodes from the intense heat of the spark into a vapor and that vapor immediately cools which then causes it to combine back in to water. That recombining process creates a suction and is considered a implosion.
Therefore the timing must be altered to accommodate the implosion that occurs. The common motor is not built to use water and some major changes will have to be made to the common motor design before we could ever think about using water as a fuel to fuel them.
One positive note. To use water, we would need a short two stroke design and it would have to be timed to ignite just before the bottom, or close to it, of the stroke so that the implosion occurs on the up stroke. Another good thing about using water is that it can be reused and water would only have to be injected every so often to replace what is lost thru the rings. No valves would be needed and only a injector would be needed. I figured this concept out after watching a video where a guy used a mixture of gases to create the same effect I am talking about. His motor had no valves and he only had to inject the gas mixture every so often to replace what was lost thru the rings. Water explodes at the ratio of 18to1 and it implodes at the ratio of 1to18. It explodes in to a vapor and it implodes back in to water. It is a bit more complicated then I made it look. There are some other factors that need to be included but it would take more research to find out what they are.
Now HHO on the other hand, can be used in the common motor because the hydrogen is separated from the oxygen before it goes in to the cylinder. We cant have all the oxygen separated because we need the oxygen to help keep the explosion as cool as possible because hydrogen creates to much heat when ignited and it will burn a whole in the piston.
Anyone who has seen what nitrogen does to a common piston knows what I am talking about and hydrogen burns even hotter.
There you go guys, sorry to bust your bubbles but that is what I come up with after doing my research. I did not want to post this on Luc's thread because I did not want to disrespect his wishes of what his thread was focused on.
Nightlife,Can you possibly post a link to the engine video you were speaking of,sounds very interesting?...thanks.
whopper1967, I have been searching for the last hour trying to find it for another member but i have yet to find it. I will send you the link as soon as I do find it. It was either a google video or a Youtube video. He was about 50 with glasses.
Blasted Bubler... Not exploded, see the shape, its implosion... water at the bottom tries to escape due to -ve pressure, and bottom of the bottle is cracked..
Timing modification unit is installed on 2HP engine, taking trials today
thanks nightlife.....
@nightlife
Are you thinking of the Joseph Papp engine?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kQ9MdoKT7I
http://www.rexresearch.com/papp/1papp.htm
Tishatang
tishatang, no thats not the same one. I am tired now and I got to get a couple hours of sleep before I go back to the shop. I will look again later today. It's 5:47 am here.
Sorry guys, just bear with me and I will find it. i should have saved it but I wasn't interested at the time becuase I was to wrapped up with a magnet motor design at the time I cam across it.
Hi every one!
My first post on this forum! :o
So capacitor70 and every one else, if you had farnell as a electronic suplier, what wold be your diode of choice?
I'm looking at this one from International rectifier
10ETS12PbF
10 Amps
Vrrm 1200V
http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/10ets12pbf.pdf
One must consider the volts from the Ignition coil to set the number of diodes to arrange right?
If your 6a4 are running too hot maybe you need a bigger amp diodes with heat dissipator.
hello to all
S1r9a9m9 has released a file on his transformer set up
can get a copy here http://www.4shared.com/file/54437779/9f61909b/s1r9a9m9_Transformer_Coil_Description.html
also on yahoo web sight http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/WaterFuel1978/
thanks
wer
Quote from: weri812 on July 08, 2008, 10:33:04 PM
hello to all
S1r9a9m9 has released a file on his transformer set up
can get a copy here http://www.4shared.com/file/54437779/9f61909b/s1r9a9m9_Transformer_Coil_Description.html
also on yahoo web sight http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/WaterFuel1978/
thanks
wer
Already posted here on overunity and already tried and discussed.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5112.0/topicseen.html
How to trigger plasma without diodes ?
1. Coil Black Wire carries high current, red wire low current for bulb
2. Bulb helps to conduct transformer. Without Bulb How you can make transformer work ?
3. Why we are using diodes, diodes prevent HV from going to battery side, we need spark
at the tip of the spark plug and at the same time DC voltage across the tip. This is achived here with coil.
4. When HV gives spike to the coil, on coil secondery battery is connected which comes
in series with HV induced in its coil, so the votage at the tip of spark plug is
Bat + HV, creates plasma channel. No need of inverter, once plasma channel is created and discharge starts you need to disconnect battery
from draining it completely. Sr1 is taking about some waveforms....
5. Once the plasma channel is created Battery current flows through plasma channel and
bulb turns off, and HV coil is also in off state. This battery voltage is having large current, current is important
for plasma blast this way it works. Plasma have infinity conductivity (zero resistance).
6. It dosent matter how much voltage is why we need voltage is to just to cover voltage drop of our diodes.
I have taken trials with 175V DC and 315V DC both have nearly same effect.
Hear is pic of coil wiring... Make sure coil polarity (direction of turns)
Capacitor70,
Are the second and third coil winding connected to the end of coil one??
We might need a better core than a nail to do the job. For now I'm going to stick with cap70's circuit, because I know that's what works. By the way, my diodes finally came in today! Woo!
Hi All,
I have seen the details of this discussion on watercar1978 forum and could not stop my self to read the entire thread. I have gone through the complete thread and watched the video posted in between.
So far i was doing research on booster and made couple of decent booster, which produce 1 lpm at 12 volt 10 Amps. But let me tell you that you people are doing something amazing. I also have a bike and would love to convert it to Water alone. Ofcourse this is a 2 stroke bike but i can arrange a 4 stroke engine.
I am prety weak in electronics but have desire to learn and understand. After reading the entire post I have following doubts:
1. At most of the places it have been mentioned 230 V input. From where the 230 volt will come on the bike? Are you guys planning to use the bike battery to make such voltage?
2. To my understanding the spark pulg has a voltage of around 20 kV. Will it be sufficient for water detonation?
3. Is there any successful attempt for running the engine on the water alone? Specially bike engine.
Even after reading this thread i was thinking to convert the bike on water alone. But was thinking only about the HHO. But after reading this post i am thinking on following lines;
1. Use some attachment like capacitor70 has designed to inject the Hydroxy to the engine. At this attachment we should have a solenoid valve which can be triggered through by passing the current through megnate of the bike. In this arrangement we should try to avoid the waste spark problem i.e. it should give the signal to solenoid valve to open only once in 2 revolution of crank shaft.
2. Convert the bike fuel tank to water tank and water must flow through carburator. This will be injected inside the engine. However the nozzle alteration can be done depending on the first bench test result.
3. Use the ignition coil of car engine. This will have pretty high voltage compared to the motor cycle ignition coil. But ofcourse it will be needing 12 volt hence for the same we can install 2 small 6 volt battery (one is already there) in series to get 12 volt. This additional battery will help in electrolysis process to without complete drain out.
4. Use the spark plug which are used in small engines which runs on Kerosene. Such spark plugs have very stong spark to burn the Kerosene. I have tested out this in 1993, when i have converted the bike to run on Kerosene. In this set up i have started the bike on gasoline and immidiately after starting was converting to run on Kerosene.
5. Timing of the engine should be adjusted byrotating the megnate as suggested by one member, who used to do the same on sports car. I think 5-10 After TDC will be good engough to get desired result.
6. Attemp can be made to seprate Hydrogen from electrolysis process and Daniel Dingel is doing for his water powered car. With this we can get better results with minimum quntity of Hydorgen.
Ofcourse this is not a new thinking because many members have thought on this in the same thread. I was thinking this to avoid any problems related to big circuits and heating problem of these circuits. To my mind at the start of the engine the Hydrogen / Hydroxy will give the boost to the spark of spark plug and helps the water to detonate quickly. But when the engine will be hot then there will not be much problem in water detonation.
So it will be combination of Hydroxy / Hydrogen and Plasma spark. I would love to know the feedback of the experienced group member on the above before making my hands dirty.
With best regards
Praveen
India
Hi all,
I have almost everything hooked up to replicate cap70 test, but I only have a 2 stroke small 25cc engine, but I only want to test for a very sort period, just to see if it fires up.
But first of all what should be goo results on bench?
For bench setup I will replace the pulse pikup coil, TIP122 and 1n4148 with a switch.
What is to expect when I pulverise water?
I'm thinking about using a plastic syringe, large enough to fit a plug.
Any thought's?
See this video, This spark plug go on engine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjBkqNc0GrQ
Spark plug size is 1 inch diameter, to see the flame take spark plug in sunlight (outside the room) or use video camera...
For test I am using switch, make sure direction of HV +ve must...
Do not short spark tip with water drop, just make it wet...
If you are getting thins kind of result then its time to put it into engine.
I don't know how it behave with two stroke engine.....
Best luck :), If you are using mains supply be careful, place earthing terminal on engine, It gives electrical shock to any terminal, discharge capacitor and remove plug before touching any part of the engine, capacitor gets charged through earthing terminal take plug out before touching any part..
fell free to ask any questions...
I will use a UPS that will give me ~170V more or less. I hope this isn't a problem...
I'm an electronics technician, not very skilled, but I live in constant electric shock risk. ;D
DO NOT FORGET BULBS
I didn't... ;D
So far so good...
Good white and loud sparks. :o
I did another test.
I got myself a epidermic 10ml syringe, cut the tip out and put the plug in the syringe.
The result was that no sound was emitted and just a tiny little bit of trust.
this test did not convinced me but how knows! Maybe water mist in cylinder has to expand with enough trust.
I will post the videos on youtube later.
Quote from: rfsimoes on July 10, 2008, 03:41:59 PM
I didn't... ;D
So far so good...
Good white and loud sparks. :o
I did another test.
I got myself a epidermic 10ml syringe, cut the tip out and put the plug in the syringe.
The result was that no sound was emitted and just a tiny little bit of trust.
this test did not convinced me but how knows! Maybe water mist in cylinder has to expand with enough trust.
I will post the videos on youtube later.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9Xz4p9fHWI&feature=user
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfRi7RrD6bY&feature=user
Quote from: rfsimoes on July 10, 2008, 07:24:30 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9Xz4p9fHWI&feature=user
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfRi7RrD6bY&feature=user
@rfsimoes, nice ! Is your plug running room temperature after multiple discharges like others have reported?
RD
No warm up was noticed. :o
Touch it after the test and it was metal cold.
I need to congratulate you capacitor70 and all of you that are working on this engine project.
I felt the need to do it because know I how hard it is to run the engine without knowing the correct timing of it.
I took of the original ignition coil because it was on a fixed position and it was a all in one pickup HV coil and generator.
My flywheel has too outside magnets so I only had to fixate my pickup coil on top of that.
Finding the timing for running the engine again on gasoline was a 4 hour challenge.
I also found out that the non resistor bosh WS5F spark plug was a litle bit too long and hit the top of the piston and closing the gap.
Put a washer in it but it was a no go.
The NGK plug that I run is as resistor so I need to find another non resistor plug to fit this engine.
Tomorow I will try to get help with the spark plug.
ANY NGK with an R on the plug has a resistor there are many that don't Chet
rfsimoes
im impressed with your vid. Could you send me a quick sketch of your wiring and exactly how you hooked it all up?
I worked for four hours today trying to get a 10hp lawnmower running on gasoline so i could convert it to this system.
stupid me nearly smashed my thumb off between the flywheel and coil, hurt so bad i said nasty words. Funny thing is that was my left hand, so stupid me, mad and determined continued to work on, bleeding and in pain, and wouldnt you know it, i done the exact same thing to my ring finger on my right hand. This time i was nearly crying and sure i was gonna have to go xray my finger thinking it was broke. So here i am tonight one finger typing this in agony WITH BOTH FREAKIN hands disabled because of this project.
What i have is a 10hp tecumpsi engine on a murray lawnmower. I never did get it to run, i found out the intake valve is broke or the cam is broke.
Anyway, it will fire and im getting a decent "regular" spark. I already have the 400 watt (800 watt max) inverter. What would you recommend me getting next to get a decent plasma spark going.
I dont have any of the diodes from cap70 ciruit desighn yet, my radio shack is exactly that, a freakin shack, they have NOTHING.
Where and what do you recomend me getting next for the build.
atlasman
Quote from: atlasman on July 12, 2008, 12:16:12 AM
I dont have any of the diodes from cap70 ciruit desighn yet, my radio shack is exactly that, a freakin shack, they have NOTHING.
Where and what do you recomend me getting next for the build.
www.mouser.com - Everything that you need at a much cheaper price than RS.
Regards, Larry
PARTS:
www.Digikey.com
www.Alliedelec.com
www.goldmine-elec.com
ebay.com too
Old TV's...microwaves...etc
@Capacitor
Hi, I'm trying to test your circuit, but got a couple questions:
6a10 and 6a4 diodes appears to be listed as 6Amp 100V as well as 6Amp 1000V
Same happen with 6a4 that I found listed as 6Amp 40V and 6 Amp 400V
Could you please clarify which ones do you use?
Have you discarded other similar rated diodes or any similar could do?
my electronics supplier must order them for me and it seems to be a big difference in price.
@all
I tested a few times the inverter capacitor circuit, but did not see too much difference with or without water, a big spark in both cases some melted plug when forgot to open contacts, but not too different when water added, as I`m following the charge-cap-discharge-through-by-hand it is difficult to me to see differences and maybe is not the optimal test procedure.
I will try to build a timer with a 555 to perform continuous adjustable sparks, and later try to add Low volts High current also adjustable in some way to try to find the best current on the bench and also, something that seems to been not tested, under high pressure in a compressed cilinder.
as I?m a little rusted in electronic, has anyone already developped such a test circuit?
Just some idea flying around...
This is supposed to be an open source development born after s1r success, who, as I understand want to share, as well as many other are sharing their ideas (maybe I misunderstood that?).
So, why does him not share, as so many people are doing, and only gives unclear ideas that seems to keep us looking around with so difficult research?? is someone keeping us looking in the not too correct direction??
well, maybe is just a stupid doubt, I`ll back to my bench... I have very little time to put hands on.
Best whishes :)
ri
QuoteCould you please clarify which ones do you use?
Have you discarded other similar rated diodes or any similar could do?
I tried my circuit with 6A10 or 6A4 diodes both diodes work well, when you use 6A10 you need little less number of diodes...
diodes gets very very hot after few trials, it melts solder joints, during test on bike engine
Hint for diode less plasma system using coil....
Also, that guy's mpd thruster ignition circuit looked like a good candidate. Need a high frequency power supply though.
Cap 70,
Im about to go hook this thing up on my tecumpsi engine and wanted to clarify real quick a few key questions.
#1, the light bulb you have in your circuit, it is wired straight into the positive side of the AC 230 between the inverter and the bridge rectifier, positive in and positive out, so it serves as something like a fuse, correct??
#2, what is the purpose of the little circuit with the TIP122 and pulse pick up coil on the negative side of the coil, then going to the head or ground side of the spark plug? Is this necissary, what exactly does it do?
#3, this may be a dumb question, but with all you circuit electronics guru's reading this, maybe there someone who can answer, instead of having (12) 6A10 in a row, is there not a company that builds a much larger diode that would replace these 12 and also not get hot enough to melt the solder??
I just remembered, on the coil that is on the tecumpsi engine, it only has one wire exiting it, and it is a ground wire, the flywheel with the magnet on it turns and when it passes the coil it makes a spark and then exits the spark plug wire into the spark plug. There is no positive to hook to a 12 volt supply like an auto coil. What do i do with this setup??
thanks
atlasman
I'm sad :'(
Wile continuing with the tests my 330uf 250V cap shorted.
I'm wondering why? ???
I using the same circuit as capacitor70.
The power supply from my UPS is delivering 170V and the bulb is a 75Wat.
Should I realy use a 400V cap? Another bulb in series?
Quotediodes gets very very hot after few trials, it melts solder joints, during test on bike engine
As I already said. This melting of the diodes is in my opinion an inherent problem of the diode approach for a plasma arc system. Because as soon as the plasma has established, all the voltage will drop across the diodes, which also means that almost all the lv power will be dissipated in the diodes and not the plasma...
I really think that the basic principle of the s1r scheme of using a coil instead of diodes could be the solution...
And there you found a really interesting thing with this plasma cutter circuit. Is there also a webpage about this, for in the vid you can't really see any details of the circuit...
QuoteWile continuing with the tests my 330uf 250V cap shorted.
What do you mean by: "My cap got shorted"?
Sure it should get shorted for every firing...
If it is so very difficult and time consuming for s1r to explain what is done why doesn't he post some units of HV coil s1r coil and a spark plug, put the hole thing already connected in a box and ship it to one of us that could test it and make some videos, take some pictures and draw a freaking decent SCHEMATIC.
AMEN to that rfsimone. ;D I want to see a picture of HIS CAR and system hooked up, and HIM taking his water hose, turn it on FULL BLAST and stick it right over into his CARBURATOR then start the dang thing. Until i see that, im doubtful at best. You can bet your balls that if i had a circuit hooked up and working and it was different that JCBX or CAP70 than everyone here and there would know the details of it with PICTURES, if you aint got i camera, call me and ill send you one!!!!
atlasman
Quote from: atlasman on July 12, 2008, 06:18:20 PM
AMEN to that rfsimone. ;D I want to see a picture of HIS CAR and system hooked up, and HIM taking his water hose, turn it on FULL BLAST and stick it right over into his CARBURATOR then start the dang thing. Until i see that, im doubtful at best. You can bet your balls that if i had a circuit hooked up and working and it was different that JCBX or CAP70 than everyone here and there would know the details of it with PICTURES, if you aint got i camera, call me and ill send you one!!!!
atlasman
i would like to put in a request for one camera... ;D
Hey xbox, off the subject for just one minute. Obviously your named xbox hacker for a reason, i have an old xbox laying here, id like to do something cool with it, you got any suggestions?
atlasman
What a hell does this unit do?
http://www.woodward.com/engine/smartfire.cfm
Quote from: rfsimoes on July 12, 2008, 08:54:34 PM
What a hell does this unit do?
http://www.woodward.com/engine/smartfire.cfm
I saw that that thing befor....100amp spark! BUT...it was designed for F1 cars, so its not going to be cheap!
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.woodward.com%2Fimages%2Fic%2Fdeicircuitsm.jpg&hash=3f01468cfd9a9d77072551c0e8d130138b9c8642)
@atlasman : xobx 1? Ummm... i would say anchor! lol Its been a while sence i modded a xbox 1....
Hi ,
I was checking out S1R's youtube profile, his only subscription is to Capacitor70. This leads me to believe that he is watching for a reason, this must mean that Cap70 is on the right track!!
Just an observation...
HV
Well is his being helping, giving directions responding objectively, documentating, posting some very good proof of concept.
He claims "I did it", the video is here, this is the circuit, I did this and that.
I say, he is definitely on the right on the right path.
GO CAPACITOR
I know that for capacitor get this results he had help from other people and for that I'd like to thank them all.
Thankyou and keep up the good work.
Well I looked a bit closer at the Plasma Cutter Thing. BTW: This circuit is available in a readable version on the "Welding projects" yahoo group.
He's using a conventional stun gun HV circuit, which actually works like a Tesla Trafo cicuit. This he puts on the welder contacts. As the HV is HF (Tesla Trafo have high frequencies) the HV will mostly be blocked by the coil in the LV circuit (which are mainly used to lowpass filter the LV, so that you get rid of the LV ripples, due to the rectification on an AC signal). For additional protection he later added a little snubber cap (not in schematic). The rest is just for switching and air, etc...
As I got interested I read abit more in this group.
It looks as the usual way to have the HV on the LV side is to just put a secondary of the HV in the LV path (sometimes) with an additional HV snubber cap, so than it can also resonate a bit on the LV side, but due to the high frequency the lv is still protected (see above).
I think it's interesting to note, that they all use
HF AC HV circuits. Just a suggestion: Maybe this is the cause why they don't observe the strange effects, as others like Graneau did (and we here too).
One thing about that particular design you posted is the spark gap in the hv line.
I really thought this is a good idea. Why? When the secondary of the ignition coil creates the HV, it needs some time for that (dv/dt). If you now have an additional spark gap, which will say break at 20kv. Then immediately after the break of this spark gap, this gap will have almost 0 resistance, so that now, the HV is on the other gap (plug). This way, the other gap will see a much higher voltage in between and especially also a much higher dV/dt.
But what I think could be really interesting about using a spark gap in the HV is, that the water would see just one side of the potential of the HV until the gap breaks. This means the water will become ionized prior to the firing.
I think this could be the key.
Graneau says in one of his papers:
Quote[...]Accepting the general view that plasmas are quasineutral and therefore do not explode as a result of Coulomb forces, the available evidence seemed little doubt that the explosions had to be driven by electrodynamic forces.[...]
But what if we create a non neutral Plasma!!!
In the plasma state it's almost impossible to make it non neutral without that it immediately tries to expand (explode) (except you have it in a electrostatic or a magnetic trap).
But what if we first heavily ionize the water, due to the strong bonding forces in the water the water will keep together although it is heavily ionized. But as soon as we bring now the water to the plasma state or even just in a state of many very small droplets, it will expand immediately due to its ionization...
Well this is just an idea...
Addition:
This means it could even be beneficial to fire the ignition coil again after the first firing to ionize the plasma even more, even during the firing...so it will try even harder to expand...
But this time, we wouldn't want that the spark gap is closing, for we only want to ionize the water/air plasma...
Shanti, i believe it may be possible that you are the most electronically educated individual on this site. Not saying many others are not, you just seem to really know what your talking about. I myself can hardly spell the word "electronics" ??? So, my question is this, you seem to wait till someone posts, then you analyze the entire thing and post your thought on "if it is ligitimate", "if it will work", "why it will work" or "why it will not work". So back to my question, are you just waiting and gathering information or are you planning on unleashing an ingenious circuit design here that is sure to run a V-8 engine full throttle without missing a lick on H2O? :) I hope your about to let us all see what you have up your sleeve, because i for one believe you have the insight to make a fool proof circuit.
atlasman
;D
Well I'm waiting on my GTO Caps...3 weeks to go...before I will go through some serious testing...
(Until then I will have enough time to modify my generator so that it will have a different NC controlled ignition circuit, for easy timing adjustments)
Well, why I always put my 2 cents? Well especially if it goes about electric ciruitry I have sometimes the view, as if a lot of people here don't know much about it. Therefore I put in as much knowledge as I have, in the hope this is of help and inspiring somebody...
So that one idea is the seed for another one, etc, until we reach the goal. My opinion: Everybody should contribute what he can...But I do not claim in any way, that anything I say is right. For I personally think no brain can know and understand the truth.
And if anybody says I should stop it, it's not really of any help, I will stop. I just don't know if anything I say is of any use for you people...
But I would really have to tell, that if my circuit I already envisioned (very similar to s1r's) would work in the tests, I would not show it publicly. As I think time's not ripe for publishing...(I know, now a lot of people will not understand this, but please don't start a discussion about it, as it would be offtopic anyway...)
Well but this whole post is also Offtopic, so sorry to all!
#1, the light bulb you have in your circuit, it is wired straight into the positive side of the AC 230 between the inverter and the bridge rectifier, positive in and positive out, so it serves as something like a fuse, correct??
Yes. Protect from surge current.
#2, what is the purpose of the little circuit with the TIP122 and pulse pick up coil on the negative side of the coil, then going to the head or ground side of the spark plug? Is this necissary, what exactly does it do?
Its just transistorized ignition system like CDI, I don't have CDI unit on my engine, so I am using this transistor circuit to trigger ignition coil. Its not necessary
if you have CDI unit.
#3, this may be a dumb question, but with all you circuit electronics guru's reading this, maybe there someone who can answer, instead of having (12) 6A10 in a row, is there not a company that builds a much larger diode that would replace these 12 and also not get hot enough to melt the solder??
There very few company's build such high rating diodes, But It is difficult to find supplier for those diodes...
I just remembered, on the coil that is on the tecumpsi engine, it only has one wire exiting it, and it is a ground wire, the flywheel with the magnet on it turns and when it passes the coil it makes a spark and then exits the spark plug wire into the spark plug. There is no positive to hook to a 12 volt supply like an auto coil. What do i do with this setup??
You need separate ignition coil and setup like My TIP122 and magnet....
Wile continuing with the tests my 330uf 250V cap shorted.
I'm wondering why? Huh
Remove your rectifier circuit before checking capacitor, Your capacitor may be OK.
rectifier gets shorted.
I using the same circuit as capacitor70.
The power supply from my UPS is delivering 170V and the bulb is a 75Wat.
Should I realy use a 400V cap? Another bulb in series?
No need of high voltage capacitor...
GOOD NEWS Danial Dingel is releasing details of his water car
http://danieldingel.com/
GOOD NEWS Danial Dingel is releasing details of his water car
Are you sure? I think this may just be another discussion site dedicated to coping Danial Dingels work, the IP is United States - Softlayer Technologies Inc, I dont think Danial Dingel has any involvement unfortunately, I would be delighted if any one can tell me otherwise though!
I'm sure they'll be selling the Dingle details.
anyone watch the video on the dingle site today?? it was posted today, very interesting, he converted the hydrogen to electricity.
any opinions??
capacitor70
how are the trials going, pm me and let me know
Well somebody in the yahoo groups forum just found this patent US 6553981 (get it at www.pat2pdf.org (http://www.pat2pdf.org))
Well, it's exactly what we have here...
It even describes the different spark plug configurations and also different circuits versions (e.g. Circuits without the diodes and just with the coils for blocking, or with snubbers, etc, ...)
See one example here (They just have a CDI System for ignition):
the story repeats it's self... :'(
http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/12/27/1342258&from=rss
Someone should protect this to be public domain like linux.
Maybe we need to stop and think about this...
Well the patent is from 2003 so never mind what I said.
This Sunday I realised that electrolisers are old news. A 50 year old basic school and non internautic guy that I know, knew about that from along time ago...
Capacitor70 thank you for your help once again,
My cap really shorted,
After taken the cap out of the circuit I measured 0hom between the two terminals of it.
Before he was farting like a pig ;D well it was making the same sound of the spark plug.
It is swollen too.
Good thing that bulb! :o ho ever thought about it had a good idea.
I will check bridge and every diode.
By the way, since I couldn't got 6Awhatever diodes I'm using 19 diodes BY229 8A 800V rating
www.nxp.com/acrobat_download/datasheets/BY229_SERIES_2.pdf
I got myself 4 330uF 200V cap that I'm going to connect 2 in series and 2 in parallel so the final cap is a 330uf 400V.
|----+|(----+|(---|
+++| | - - - -
|----+|(----+|(---|
Computer power supplies are a good source of this caps. Computer monitors too!
Keep up the good work people :D
Cap 70, you answered all my questions earlier very well. I have one more though.
When you were talking about the CDI box. I know what a CDI box looks like, i have worked on motorcycles and 4-wheelers for years. My question is: What does a CDI box do in laymens terms.
The way i think a motorcycle runs it this, Flywheel with magnets turns around stater which puts out a small spark, this spark runs up out of crank case under gas tank on most motorbikes into small CDI box, which does ??? and then a wire from here goes into coil, which jumps small spark up into "knock your di%# in the dirt fire" which in turn goes into the plug.
So does the CDI make the thing fire at the exact right moment or what?
jr
new s1r vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucb8cJwIChY
Plasma generation using coil NO DIODES....
Thanks Shanti....
Circuit is not much fast, but it can work fast with CDI ignition system and proper capacitor and transformer,
I am trying to reduce number of turns of coil to get much better results.....
See Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFupa63jY4M
QuoteThanks Shanti....
Your welcome...but why you thank me, didn't do anything...
Well your new circuit is actually a circuit very like to the ones usually currently used for TIG-welding. If you use this setup actually it would be easier just to take a conventional HV generator (electrical gas ignitor, stun gun circuit, ...) and couple it over the HV-transformer instead of the ignition coil. These are quite cheap any readily available...
But I would add something to protect your cap (e.g. varistor or transil diode) for otherwise it can still get some surges as soon as the arc has established.
If you still use the ignition coil, I just would make sure, that the large spark gap isn't too large, so that it's firing voltage is always lower than what the caps can withstand, but on the other hand, the smaller the gap, the smaller the voltage which will go into the transformer...
Here you use the ignition coil to charge the caps. Well I don't know actually how your driving circuits looks like, but if your ignition coil is allowed to ring, efficiency would be far better if you add a HV diode (just a cheap one, doesn't need to withstand much current) between the coil and the caps, so that you make sure, the caps only get charged and not also again discharged by the ignition coil.
You given this link http://www.myelectricengine.com/projects/mpdthruster/ignition/ignition.html
Quoteif you add a HV diode (just a cheap one, doesn't need to withstand much current) between the coil and the caps,
I will try this....
With 12V for LV dosen't make any change in spark (normal spark no plasma with 12V), It needs high voltage ??? it may be because of transformer coil....
Instead of tesla style first part, why not do a simple mosfet connected to 555 timer for high frequency. This wouldn't cause all that EMI interference.
EDIT: Would the normal hv spike emitted by the coil be able to pass the air core transformer? What about if we used iron core?
QuoteInstead of tesla style first part, why not do a simple mosfet connected to 555 timer for high frequency. This wouldn't cause all that EMI interference.
???
What exactly do you mean by that? You need HV in this first part circuit. How do you wanna switch the HV (several kv) with a MOSFET? For that you would need a multi FET stage circuit, very delicate to design and also expensive...
But the principle is just to get a HV to the LV circuit. For that you actually wouldn't even need something oscillating, (although it's more efficient like that). A single shot HV on the primary would be enough, so that this single shot gets to the secondary lv side to arc the plug. Sure you could also wire the transformer so that even a LV at the primary would be sufficient to get HV at the secondary, but for this the secondary would need much inductance. And actually ideally we wouldn't wanna have any inductance at all in the secondary circuit for it blocks the flow of the LV.
@cap: As I looked at your circuit again, something right jumped at me :o
Your are using seveal different sized caps in series. without any additional circuitry. This is very dangerous. For usually due to the different sizes the caps will be charged to different voltages. So it can very easily happen, that one gets a lot of voltage...Well I just wanted to tell this...
As about the 12V. Well I just made a rough calculation, and the inductance you have in your secondary is so low, it should not really be the reason why the 12V isn't going...Maybe the spark gap is too wide for the 12V to sustain the arc...
How did you connect the 12V, from what source?
Soon I am taking trial with Hydrogen + Water + Plasma, and replaced piston rings, oil seals, engine oil.....
For capacitor charging high frequency inverter.... :)
It will make engine like this....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HivxQN_G8tA
Quote from: Shanti on July 16, 2008, 11:26:56 AM
???
What exactly do you mean by that? You need HV in this first part circuit. How do you wanna switch the HV (several kv) with a MOSFET? For that you would need a multi FET stage circuit, very delicate to design and also expensive...
But the principle is just to get a HV to the LV circuit. For that you actually wouldn't even need something oscillating, (although it's more efficient like that). A single shot HV on the primary would be enough, so that this single shot gets to the secondary lv side to arc the plug. Sure you could also wire the transformer so that even a LV at the primary would be sufficient to get HV at the secondary, but for this the secondary would need much inductance. And actually ideally we wouldn't wanna have any inductance at all in the secondary circuit for it blocks the flow of the LV.
@cap: As I looked at your circuit again, something right jumped at me :o
Your are using seveal different sized caps in series. without any additional circuitry. This is very dangerous. For usually due to the different sizes the caps will be charged to different voltages. So it can very easily happen, that one gets a lot of voltage...Well I just wanted to tell this...
As about the 12V. Well I just made a rough calculation, and the inductance you have in your secondary is so low, it should not really be the reason why the 12V isn't going...Maybe the spark gap is too wide for the 12V to sustain the arc...
How did you connect the 12V, from what source?
I was think switching 12 volts and steppng it up to spark plug voltage.
See this some thing strange....
Please collect main points and explain...
lord of the rings, coil like S1r9....
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1872.0.html
Ok wathced the videos, am becoming enlightened , if anyone can please direct me in the correct direction for what we know about s1r's circuit, capacitor, how is the project going, PM me again so we can chat, are you still having the flooding issues?? or are u starting over??
ok so from what i understand s1r uses
car battery
charger to cahrge car battery
inverter to covert 12 volsts to 110
the mysterious windings and a typical spark plug
no timing changes on engine??
any help is great, will be working all hours tongiht to try a few things
Hi,
after reading all the posts and seeing s1r and capacitor70 motor runing something came in my mind, is using 2 strokes instead of 4 strokes engine cycle (like Papp did it, and eliminate wast spark) by closing intake and exaust, adding the amount of water ??? and air needing, setting the piston just before BDC before screwing the plug, since there is no combustion we can use the same air and water again and again.
The only problem is how speed up or speed down the motor.
Maybe its too early to talk about motor, since everybody try to found the best and simple way to get plasma before ICE experiments.
Max ;).
Here is the link to the video I was talking about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8Ztw0nYVS0
Another member, tishatang, has started a thread about this motor as well as he has also posted a link to the patents.
The patent:
http://www.rexresearch.com/papp/2pappats.htm#4428193
The thread:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5154.0.html
Modified coil photo
1. it works much better than previous coil.
2. ferrite core.
3. primary 12 turns.
4. secondary 32 turns.
5. no misfire observed
6. much fast spark generation.....
7. you can reduce secondary winding turns.
8. After increasing LV spark gap no problem at all....
@Shanti
Addition of diode at HV side created problem of misfire, direction of diode is confirmed.....
I don't understand how the coil will isolate the LV from HV.
Well LV since is almost DC,because of the cap, (still using 330uF 400V?) it shouldn't pass through the coil.
The HV from ignition coil, since it is pulsed, it will pass through the coil into the LV circuit.
I'm I wrong?
@Cap70;
I thought you said DONT use magnet wire for the coil?
Questions about the coil and setup:
Is the primary on the HV side or LV side?
Are your caps VAC or VDC?
Could i use a VAC microwave cap?
How do you have the LV side hooked into the transformer? ...i need a little more detail ;D
whats the gap sizes you have on the plugs?
Does the transformer get hot after long term use?
I made a transformer like the one on myelectricengine.com....but i dont have any caps...
I thought you said DONT use magnet wire for the coil?
yes, I said that, but it may wrong statement...I am using green 7 Stand wire for HV coil,
Is the primary on the HV side or LV side?
Primary of green wire is on HV side.
Are your caps VAC or VDC?
2000V 16KHz 7200pf AC Polyester Film capacitor.
Could i use a VAC microwave cap?
Yes, make voltage level 6000V, series combination, anything can work
How do you have the LV side hooked into the transformer?
series with LV.
whats the gap sizes you have on the plugs?
With ferrite core just put plugs, no need to change gap at all. Don't worry about gap it works
Does the transformer get hot after long term use?
This is first time I am using, I don't know, I checked with little trials no heat is observed
I made a transformer like the one on myelectricengine.com....but i dont have any caps...
With air and Iron core it is difficult to get it work...
How it works ?
1. Capacitor charge to HV and first spark plug acts as switch, switch triggers at high voltage
level this plasma channel discharges capacitor in the green winding transformer
primary.
2. If we directly connect HV to transformer(coil) green winding it will not allow
voltage to rise enough to trigger second spark plug. also LC resonance works here
3. Once high voltage spike is given at primary, secondary generates High voltage
and it is connected in series with LV so LV+HV(secondary) makes spark and plasma is generates...
How to test ?
1. Connect primary as shown in figure.
2. Connect spark plug to secondary, Do not connect LV.
3. Once you see spark at secondary, its done,
4. Connect LV in series with secondary and spark plug.
5. Due to low number of turns on secondary it will allow LV through spark plug...
@cap70
rfsimoes had a good point..."The HV from ignition coil, since it is pulsed, it will pass through the coil into the LV circuit.
I'm I wrong?"
You still have HV on the LV side of the transformer, and no protection for the LV power supply......
Am i missing something?
Do we still need the capacitors and spark gap before the transformer? What caps did you use?
Complete circuit diagram, you can try any value of capacitor if you have, otherwise use 7500 capacitors...
It work without any problem just make it...
Once I get my paycheck I will order supplies neccessary for engine trials. Hopefully I have found a suitable engine to test. I have enough parts for an 8 cylinder engine.
It seems that in the video Capacitor 70 posted on youtube he is flicking a switch to discharge his caps? Or am I wrong? I don't see a switch in the latest schematic...I'm a complete amateur, so if there is a switch for discharging the caps, where does it belong in the schematic...I'm trying to replicate but I'm unsure of how to proceed.
@Cap70
I built a toridal coil just like yours and got my setup all hooked up, with out the LV...JUST HV. I am using a .089uf 2100v cap form a microwave. I get no spark at all on the spark gap on the primary side....witch i would guess is why i get no spark on the secondary side...lol
If i unhook the cap wire from the top of the primary plug i get a spark at that plug...so the ignition coil is working. If i reconnect the wire for the cap...i get no spark, its like the cap is eating up all the HV, but it is not storing it because is shorted the cap to see if it had anything, and it didnt.
Any thoughts?
Does the direction of the primary winding matter?
What gauge is that green wire?
I built a toridal coil just like yours and got my setup all hooked up, with out the LV...JUST HV. I am using a .089uf 2100v cap form a microwave. I get no spark at all on the spark gap on the primary side....witch i would guess is why i get no spark on the secondary side...lol
How many capacitors you are using in series, or single ?? you need at least 6KV to get it work, three capacitors in series
capacitance is high it may create problem (Not sure)
If i unhook the cap wire from the top of the primary plug i get a spark at that plug...so the ignition coil is working. If i reconnect the wire for the cap...i get no spark, its like the cap is eating up all the HV, but it is not storing it because is shorted the cap to see if it had anything, and it didnt.
Any thoughts?
Does the direction of the primary winding matter?
No..
What gauge is that green wire?
Gauge is not much important on primary side, insulation is very important, that's why I said do not use magnet winding wire, use high insulation resistance wire...
today I just checked what happen if I increase spark gap, It makes spark on primary winding (insulation break down occurs). and no spark on both spark plug
UPDATE:
I got some positive results form Cap70's coil setup!! ;D
I could not hook it up as shown in his design, i have to mod it... below is what i did. I removed the spark plug on the primary side and just use a spark gap to ground (same kind of thing i guess) But this is the only way i could get it to work at all!
The next problem is that it only works about 5% of the time, but when it does... WOW!!
I will have to admit i was expecting it not to work (because it didnt sooooo many time) but when it did create a plasma spark it scared the shit out of me...LOL ...i was not expecting it!!
@everyone: Correct me if i am wrong...but if you put caps of the same voltage with different capacitance in series, you are not making the voltage of the series bigger, you are just making the capacitance lower...??? Does the voltage value change in series?
Xboxhacker,
where is your first sparkgap in your picture Image 0122 ?
capacitor70 is using 3 capacitors in series to make the capacitance smaller
BUT to have a higher voltage rating of the whole capacitance,
so these 3 caps in series stand much higher voltage
as the breaking voltage will add up, when you put them in series.
So if your single cap is rate for maximum 2000 Volts,
3 put in series can withstand 6000 Volts.
Hope this helps.
Regards, Stefan.
Hmm,
when I look at the circuit some more,
I guess it could be much easier, not to use at all an ignition coil,
but just drive a big current pulse maybe with only 2 or 3 windings
into one side of the toroidal transformer,
so on the other side you will get a much higher induction voltage
to get this voltage to add to the low voltage high current side.
So we could probably reduce this circuit to just use the right toroidal
transformer and pulse one side of the toroidal
transformer with a 12 Volts pulse from the car battery via a transistor or MOSFET
and get rid of the ignition coil and the sparkgap.
This way we could save again many parts and generate the required
high voltage pulse.
Quote from: hartiberlin on July 18, 2008, 09:51:56 AM
Xboxhacker,
where is your first sparkgap in your picture Image 0122 ?
capacitor70 is using 3 capacitors in series to make the capacitance smaller
BUT to have a higher voltage rating of the whole capacitance,
so these 3 caps in series stand much higher voltage
as the breaking voltage will add up, when you put them in series.
So if your single cap is rate for maximum 2000 Volts,
3 put in series can withstand 6000 Volts.
Hope this helps.
Regards, Stefan.
Thanx i just wanted to know for sure! ;)
The spark gap in the photo is just out of frame on the left, i just put the red aligator clip close to ground to make the gap. In the shot, on the left you can see a spark gap tester, i can make the gap on it .010" to 1.5" thats what i was useing originally as the spark plug on the primary side, this way i could move the gap with ease, if i need more or less.
The image is not showing the sparks, its just a image of my coil...thats all ;D
Quote from: hartiberlin on July 18, 2008, 10:00:12 AM
Hmm,
when I look at the circuit some more,
I guess it could be much easier, not to use at all an ignition coil,
but just drive a big current pulse maybe with only 2 or 3 windings
into one side of the toroidal transformer,
so on the other side you will get a much higher induction voltage
to get this voltage to add to the low voltage high current side.
So we could probably reduce this circuit to just use the right toroidal
transformer and pulse one side of the toroidal
transformer with a 12 Volts pulse from the car battery via a transistor or MOSFET
and get rid of the ignition coil and the sparkgap.
This way we could save again many parts and generate the required
high voltage pulse.
You draw it...i build it ;D ;D
Please try it this way.
Surely the green coil then needs to have only about 2 or 3 windings,
so the red coil will have at least 20 to 30 turns, so the
high voltage will be generated.
Also play with the polarities, cause you need
to generate a voltage on the red coil side that adds up
to the low voltage and not opposes it !
Pay much attention to this !
Use a scope to verify the polarities !
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
I will try i laterz when i get home...have to work for "man" to keep the lights on..LOL
Quote from: hartiberlin on July 18, 2008, 10:08:42 AM
Please try it this way.
Surely the green coil then needs to have only about 2 or 3 windings,
so the red coil will have at least 20 to 30 turns, so the
high voltage will be generated.
Also play with the polarities, cause you need
to generate a voltage on the red coil side that adds up
to the low voltage and not opposes it !
Pay much attention to this !
Use a scope to verify the polarities !
THIS WILL NOT WORKV1 N1
------ = -------
V2 N2
if v1 is 12V then V2=(N1 X V2)/N2
Transistor and coil circuit is simple transistorized ignition system to drive HV coil
Hey guys, I think I just found something....... ;D
Check this out: http://www.steamengine.com.au/ic/history/spark-intensifier/ :D
So, can this thing help to produce better plasma?? ::)
Hopes this helps.... ;D ;D ;D
ps: I had read some websites, they says that Pulsar plugs are using this technology.... Please verify... 8)
I really hope that this new circuit works because now I noticed that I blew UP 17 of 19 BY229 (1,5Euro)diodes.
28,5â,¬ shorted >:(
I thinks It was due to using a 800uF cap.
My HV coil was giving me no spark also so I think that cap also did some damage to HV coil.
Full bridge rectifier still ok, but this reminds me of recheck the two 1n4007 at the output of HV coil...
Tomorrow I will get some toroid coils and polyester caps. these will bee free recycled items so it's far more cheap than those exotic diodes. ;D
Well,
I have updated my upper circuit:
ignition04.gif
We need to have a big di/dt current change and so a
big induction voltage what we are interested in the
toroidal secondary coil to fire the sparkplug.
We need to prevent the transistor to be killed...
So either use a transistor or MOSFET which can stand at least 1000 Volts
and put a capacitor in parallel with the coil
or use a neon bulb in parallel with the transistor to
reduce the spike voltage at the transistor to around 90 Volts.
The best thing would be, if you use the contact points of your ignition
system in your engine to switch it, if you still have mechanical
contact points.
I will draw up another diagram.
Hi,
for experimenting you can try first with this simple circuit.
It might be better, if you place about 1 nF cap (2000 Volts rating) still across the
green coil, so you get a better burst and thus better sparking at the sparkplug.
Play with the winding ratios.
The highest voltage on the red coil will be produced, if you switch off the
current in the green coil,
so be sure to have the polarities of the coils right, so when the
current in the green coil is switched off,
the induction voltage in the red coil must have the polarity to
add up on the 330 uF cap voltage and NOT to oppose it.
Hope this helps.
Regards, Stefan.
i got 1500v transistors for arcade monitors ;D
I AM GOING TO START A NEW THREAD...."My Cap70 replication!" ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I got fantastic plasma reaction for the Cap70's latest design!! Below is yet another crappy video form my cell phone...i know, i know....i need a real video recorder!!! LOL
This design cant be any easier!! Setup just like he said, disregard my post on my redraw, that was the only way i could get it to work for me.... but i finally got a series cap bank 6000v @ 500pF and BAM that did the trick!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8ThI0y8Vp8
Now the next problem is that if you watch the coil you can see the inter windings arcing on the secondaries :-\ I origanlly unwound a tolaroid coil to make it less turn for the secondary, so i think thats why it is arcing so bad...but it still works ;D
@hartiberlin : I have tired primary turns form 2 - 6 (cant fit any more in it after 6) Same results for all, no secondary firing, but i didn't try the 1uF cap idea, got to find one first!
Ok...after hours of playing with the coil setup the secondary now has too much arcing to get the plug to fire. So i will have to rewind the ring with insulated wire for the secondaries!!
Just for shits and giggles, i hooked up my monster air core transformer... its just like the one on www.myelectricengine.com ;D It was ok...but Cap70's was MUCH better!!!
QuoteNow the next problem is that if you watch the coil you can see the inter windings arcing on the secondaries Undecided I origanlly unwound a tolaroid coil to make it less turn for the secondary, so i think thats why it is arcing so bad...but it still works Grin
Voltage gets divided on each turn of winding, If we have 10KV and 10 turns then each round of coil have 1KV, copper magnet wire insulation breakdown occurs at around 700V, due to this you can see the inter turn windings arching.
@Stefan
Coil is simple high voltage transformer, nothing special, It is not possible to get arc without HV on primary. You need same turns as HV coil have to get it work with 12V...
Capacitor on primary side are charged to high voltage and discharge through primary once plasma channel is on (Plasma acts as high voltage switch), on the HV side spark plug. See surge tester or LC resonance.
Great news! I got a new 6 cylinder engine and I should be getting a job soon so I can buy the parts to do the conversion. Yay! Then I can finally finish this topic.
Woah. A lot of posts since my last look :o
Quote@Shanti
Addition of diode at HV side created problem of misfire, direction of diode is confirmed.....
Strange...Maybe diode is not switching fast enough? Well if it works without, why bother...
QuoteI built a toridal coil just like yours and got my setup all hooked up, with out the LV...JUST HV. I am using a
.089uf 2100v cap form a microwave. I get no spark at all on the spark gap on the primary side....witch i would
guess is why i get no spark on the secondary side...lol
How many capacitors you are using in series, or single ?? you need at least 6KV to get it work, three
capacitors in series
capacitance is high it may create problem (Not sure)
Well this was exactly the reason why I said you to insert the HV Diode. For I thought that maybe the misfirings in your first vid were, because your coil doesn't have enough energy to charge the caps in one shot. And then the diode would be quite an improvement, for the coil wouldn't be able to discharge it again. But it seems, your coil has enough energy to charge the caps in one shot, then the diode isn't needed anyway. But if you take a 89nF cap, I would guess this is too much capacity for the coil to charge in one shot. then you will exactly get this problem...
But I still would suggest to take one HV doorknop cap, instead of these 3 in series, especially if they do not have the same capacity. For it is really very likely that one of your caps gets much more voltage than the others!
And you can easily get doorknop caps on EBAY for >10kv for $5-10 in this small pF range you need.
Why the toroid core performs better than the air core? Well actually it shouldn't...
Maybe the HV transform works better, but the LV side will surely have a much higher inductance, and therefore gets hindered to let a lot of amps to flow...But as you use an electrolyte cap in your LV anyway, I think it would be the best thing you can do.
@Harti:
What exactly is your intention how you wanna improve this circuit. Your drawing one schema after the other (you're really enthusiastic. Chapeau). But what exactly would you like to improve in the circuit, for it is really a very easy cicuit. And as I told earlier, we want to have as less inductance in the secondary as possible, so you surely don't want to transform from LV to HV with the isolating transformer. I think your actually complexing the schema more and more...(with your HV Fets, etc.)
Offtopic: As I will have to do some other things, I will not post anymore until my GTO caps arrived...
Xbox,
Thanks again for your help!! The one thing I'm not understanding is where is the 12V source coming from on the ignition coil side of the circuit. Is it hooked strait to the battery , before the inverter??
Mahalo Nui Loa ,
HV
The 12v source is the positive side of the 12v battery! that thing that looks like a arrow made out of horizontal lines, at the bottom of the schematic, is the symbol for GROUND...so thats the negative side of the battery.
Xbox,
Your the best.. Thanks a million..
Sorry if I'm a little off topic but there may be some usefull info here...
http://www.supremelaw.org/authors/wine/energdev.htm
Carl
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg176.imageshack.us%2Fimg176%2F9720%2Fcapacitorkc2.png&hash=ff68845a6c3cb41f629d26840bbfcf77035f9557) (http://imageshack.us)
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg176.imageshack.us%2Fimg176%2F9720%2Fcapacitorkc2.a33e3e4909.jpg&hash=551557d1a1c2e1edbbcd538940f9f8fd73ab1c69) (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=176&i=capacitorkc2.png)
thanks again guys, cant wait to be replicating
omg, an accident just waiting to happen ::)
@Park34
the 8 US$ part would be right, 1 uF 2000 Volts,
if these are no electrolytic caps.
Otherwise get some smaller foil or ceramic caps and put them in parallel
to get the desired capacitance,
for instance:
10 x 0.1 uF ( 2000 Volts) in parallel = 1 uF at 2000 Volts
If you put caps in series the capacitance will
drop but the voltage rating will raise like:
10 x 0.1 (2000 Volts) in series = 0.01 uF at 20.000 Volts
But be very cautious with these !
When charged up to more than 50 Volts and you touch them accidently
they could kill you.
Charged up bigger capacitors with high voltage DC on them
are very deadly, so never work without rubber gloves !
Regards, Stefan.
Quotethe 8 US$ part would be right, 1 uF 2000 Volts,
if these are no electrolytic caps.
Do not go for higher capacitance use 1000pf or less for better results.
Higher the capacitance lower the LC oscillations and more number of turns required to get it work,
Lower the capacitance higher the LC oscillation frequency, so less number of turns.......
Thanks for the advice guys, and the words of wisdom. I am trained in the honda hybrids and understand most of high voltage safety issues. Just the different capacitors confused me. I cut up a sheep of plywood last night to put everythign on and try to build a nice setup for testing. So i take it everyone is in agreement that the 8 dollar ones are the way to go. Im not buying from ebay, i have a electronic recycler in town and well they have thousands of capacitors. otherwise i have allot of old parts laying around and will list what i have. i have a motor ready from a lawnmower for testing and also have a old spark plug tester that lets me pressurize the plug out ofthe engine. will post pics and my wiring before doing any testing to make shure i have it right. and from what i understand the higher the farad level the more resistance right??
Quote from: capacitor70 on July 20, 2008, 08:18:43 AM
Do not go for higher capacitance use 1000pf or less for better results.
Higher the capacitance lower the LC oscillations and more number of turns required to get it work,
Lower the capacitance higher the LC oscillation frequency, so less number of turns.......
Well,
in my circuit I wrote 1 nF= 1000 pF.
That is right.
I thought you needed the 1 uF for some other application...
PLEASE...PLEASE...PLEASE!!!! BE VERY CAREFUL IN YOUR EXPERIMENTS!!!!
My system is operating on 6000v @ 500pF...and it works great!!
So for those that dont know.. most non-electrolytic caps dont have the capacitance printed on them.. they have a 3 or 4 digit code (3 numbers or 3 numbers and one letter) You need to "decode" the code to find the capacitance value! I HIGHLY recommend downloading a program called "Electronic Assistant" ..with this program you can decode the caps, calculate parallel and series values, conversions from uF to pF to nF...and TONs of other things dealing with electronics.
http://www.electronics2000.co.uk/download.php <~~download it here!
Here is a link to ebay for some caps that should work for Cap70's design!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/8-x-6KV-470PF-High-Voltage-Ceramic-Disc-Capacitor-Y5P_W0QQitemZ150221264168QQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116
6000v @ 470pF ....that should work! But it ships form Mainland China....lol DIRT CHEAP CAPS!!!! ;D ;D
http://cgi.ebay.com/8x-30kV-500pF-High-Voltage-doorknob-capacitor-Tesla-HAM_W0QQitemZ360072199716QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item360072199716&_trksid=p3286.m14.l1318
30kV @ 500pF
Don't forget to download my free software that just do that ;)
http://www.cncfreak.com/softwares.php
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cncfreak.com%2Ftools%2Fcncfreak_capacitor.png&hash=2984d1f0389380be534c8d141323593bee046c0e)
Kind if a curious question, but has anyone just made a coil out of one side of a lamp that plug in the walll, then wrapped the hv coil around that and sent it to the spark plug, would that cause hv on the lamp side or higher amps on the spark plug side??
just curious, i realize ac is constantly switching, which is why i recon you guys use the bridge rectifier.
just throwing some new ideas out there :)
xbox hacker
so the
8x6kv 470PF one u linked on ebay, would you only need one capacitor then??
i see on the capacitor it says 6kv
hi again
i like your program
thanks for the link
another question:
while dissasebling some of the old arcades, pc etc i have layign around i found some orange capacitors
they say
CM C
.001k
3kv
they are about the size of a half dime i guess, curious if someone could decode that for me as so i can learn as i go here. the 3kv interested me. i have 15 of them
Quote from: Park34 on July 20, 2008, 02:27:28 PM
xbox hacker
so the
8x6kv 470PF one u linked on ebay, would you only need one capacitor then??
i see on the capacitor it says 6kv
Theoretically.....
I got mine from arcade chassis too ;D
The ones you mentioned are 3kilavolt ...but for the capacitance...i dont know
I just sent an email to Aaron asking this (It is his circuit), but can anyone confirm the wiring is correct on this slightly modified version of his spark enhancing circuit please?
http://www.mediafire.com/?nnmjbj9mrjn (http://www.mediafire.com/?nnmjbj9mrjn)
Hi all,
Does any one know if there is a delay between the spark in the HV side of this latest cap70 circuit and the spark in the LV side?
Today I was finally able to run my engine again on gasoline. I found dirt in the low rpm needle...
I was able to start the engine without the circuit, with just a direct connection between the HV coil and the plug.
Then I tried to use the spark of LV side of circuit and... No fire...
After that I tried to return to directly run from HV coil, forgot about groundings and them a smell of burn silicone came to my attention :o
The TIP122 burned me and it was shorted... So tests are over for today :'(
All of this was tried without the inverter on, so no plasma was running. I want to start the engine and then plasmate it ::)
So why doesn't my engine run with normal spark from LV spark plug?
Any Ideas?
Quote from: rfsimoes on July 20, 2008, 05:54:46 PM
All of this was tried without the inverter on, so no plasma was running. I want to start the engine and then plasmate it ::)
So why doesn't my engine run with normal spark from LV spark plug?
Any Ideas?
I would check the polarity ..... somethng must be backwards
plasmate
great word
:)
I can't wait till everyone is using it
gary
UPDATE:
I have uploaded a new video show my cap70 setup...take a look! ;D ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWX31mR3vCE
I couldn't film, trigger and spray water all at the same time, so in the video is running with a small amount of water that was on it prior to filming.
It would seem that the HV polarity is not an issue with this setup. I tried it both ways.
omg the switch u used is from the arcade cabinet joystick ROTFLMA
so is the reason u got arcades due to mame conversions, just curious thats why i do
OK I NEED TO GET ONE BUILT ASAP
Xbox,
Great video, not bad for a camera phone.
Is the coil getting hot?
HV
I am a arcade machine tech!! ;D ;D (thats where is got most of my parts for free!!!)
The new video is not form a camera phone, its form a Kodak Easy Share...BUT ITS STILL NOT FAST ENOUGH TO CATCH PLASMA!!!!! :-\
I got a buddy coming over tomorrow with a HD camera... should be 60 frames/sec... We will see ;D
Coil is not getting hot!
SWEEET THATS GOTTA BE THE BEST JOB EVER
ok so it beats the pants off being a auto mechanic
another question what kinda dc amps u think your using, i am curious if i find a power supply that is dc with enough amps if it would work, so i dont need bridge rectifier etc, since your a tech what is the out voltage of teh transformer in the cabinet, id say its the size of my fist, or maybe a pc pwer supply etc, just curious of teh amps u guys think your using
and are you stateng that its not misfireing??? that we head the sound but dont see a flash cause of teh camera?? if so thats great news cause i been really concerned about the misfiring
Anyone catch the debaucle goin on over at the yahoo water car group
someone basically stated they replicated the whole thing and it dont work, asked for help and now is freaking out because posts are getting deleted from others posting the same thing.
I have been working in the arcade field for awhile...so now its just a JOB...lol
You work in a coffee shop for years...do you want to go home and have coffee? :D
The power supply is now the trickey part to cap70's setup... I can flip the switch as fast as i can with 2 fingers ( like a paintball player shoots rapid fire) it dies not miss....BUT i can see the energy is decreassed form the first fire to the last. So we need a faster charging system. I am unsure if Cap70 has this problem.....
As for the power supply, if you have access to a 220VAC output inverter you are set, other wise you have to use a 110VAC invert and a voltage doubler. I am useing a voltage doubler in all my videos, Cap70 also said to me that he is now using a 470uF cap...and the plasma is much better (than his 330uF)! As for the amps i cant check them, my meter only goes up to 10A...and i need it for work, so i cant take a chance on killing it.
With my doubler i have 290VDC with the inverter and 330VDC with a wall socket. I recently put a 150W lamp inline...like Cap70, just so i can see if the plasma fires when it is in the block, cuz you wont be able to see it then..LOL ;D
Yeah i hate replacing the fuse on my fluke
so am i hearing you correct
you have a battery then a inverter to 110v then a doubler to 240v then the bridge the the capacitors and the wining and back again??
is the double just a transformer, IE windings used to double the voltage
Quote from: Park34 on July 20, 2008, 08:50:41 PM
Yeah i hate replacing the fuse on my fluke
so am i hearing you correct
you have a battery then a inverter to 110v then a doubler to 240v then the bridge the the capacitors and the wining and back again??
is the double just a transformer, IE windings used to double the voltage
NO...the doubler acts as the bridge...A bridge is full wave rectifier...the doubler is 1/2 wave rectifier. Its not a transformer with windings...
Battery>>>doubler>>>plug
UPDATE:
I was bored so i fired off the setup for about 5-8 mins non stop, AS FAST AS I COULD! The coil DID get hot. I am unsure if a coil with different size windings and number of turns,or if it were a toroidal coil, would have the same results ...these are the results of my coil ???
Xbox,
Computer power supplies have a ferrite ring in them, about the size of a 50 cent piece...
HV
Quote from: xbox hacker on July 20, 2008, 08:45:53 PM
The power supply is now the trickey part to cap70's setup... I can flip the switch as fast as i can with 2 fingers ( like a paintball player shoots rapid fire) it dies not miss....BUT i can see the energy is decreassed form the first fire to the last. So we need a faster charging system. I am unsure if Cap70 has this problem.....
I noticed the same effect. I was using my engine ignition to run the plugs. First spark is a loud bang!
The following sparks aren't not near has violent has the first. I think is the repeating frequency rate.
Speed of capacitor charging?
Today I will try to run my engine again, on gasoline, using this circuit but without the power supply turned on, only normal spark.
;D NO MORE PETROL Ha ha ha
No stock...
No petrol...
Petrol pump closed...
From where you get petrol for testing ?...
Not so long ago I had the same picture here in Portugal. We had a truck strike and petrol stations loked like that but with cars...
Now we have plenty EXPENSIVE petrol.
And what about you capacitor70? how are your running tests going? We are all ancious to see another video from you kinking that engine and fire it up. I will give us some more motivation to speed up things.
I hope that the MIB's guys don't come across this post and delete us all... 8)
We need to be faster than them... :D
Today I assembled engine again with new piston rings and oil seals, Tomorrow taking trials again with new coil based plasma generation circuit......
Its not truck strike, demand is more and supply is less , car line is there but on the road sides ,Petrol is too much expensive here in India and we have to wait 2 or more hours at petrol pumps to get it....food prices are going high...No raining....
Quote from: rfsimoes on July 21, 2008, 09:28:31 AM
I noticed the same effect. I was using my engine ignition to run the plugs. First spark is a loud bang!
The following sparks aren't not near has violent has the first. I think is the repeating frequency rate.
Speed of capacitor charging?
Today I will try to run my engine again, on gasoline, using this circuit but without the power supply turned on, only normal spark.
we need a high frequency cap charger...
Here is a PDF i found...we might be able to use this for something..
http://forum.4hv.org/attachments/Capacitor20Charger20Circuit.pdf
Quote from: xbox hacker on July 21, 2008, 11:20:43 AM
we need a high frequency cap charger...
Here is a PDF i found...we might be able to use this for something..
http://forum.4hv.org/attachments/Capacitor20Charger20Circuit.pdf
You are not reading my all posts, It is already there in forum and working with less number of components...
Wow, so you REALLY need this system then =D This is great news for you and your community, now that finally have something that works. I'm glad we could all work together to make this work.
Quote from: capacitor70 on July 21, 2008, 11:31:26 AM
You are not reading my all posts, It is already there in forum and working with less number of components...
I might have missed it...send me a link...
Quote from: capacitor70 on July 21, 2008, 11:11:56 AM
Today I assembled engine again with new piston rings and oil seals, Tomorrow taking trials again with new coil based plasma generation circuit......
Its not truck strike, demand is more and supply is less , car line is there but on the road sides ,Petrol is too much expensive here in India and we have to wait 2 or more hours at petrol pumps to get it....food prices are going high...No raining....
Hi,
Good to hear that your test engine is back again for testing. Looking forward to your new design research results.
Possible test for "Charging water"
Water is different worldwide in the natural concentrations of the electric charge of the calcium and magnesium ions present in nearly all sources of drinking water.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
From: peterfallenbach over at WaterFuel1978@yahoogroups.com:
...You can "charge" the water prior to letting it into the cylinder, or you can do it right before the firing.
If the water will see just one side of the HV prior to the firing it will become ionized. Surely not as strong as if one could outside, but better than nothing.
This would also mean, that it could be a good improvement to fire the HV again and again during the combustion, so that more and more electrons get sucked away from the plasma, and so the explosion would
be even stronger.
There would also be other ways. E.g. like Stan did it by making a circuit which blocks the introduction of the electrons in the water a bit and therefore it starts to get this charge imbalance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Regards,
Michael Randall
If you want charged water find someone with a water ionizer. These things plug into the wall and can easily change the pH down tp 2.5 or up to 9.5 just by the charge. You can find an ionizer like enagic or jupiter on ebay.
Quote from: Gearhead on July 21, 2008, 01:15:13 PM
If you want charged water find someone with a water ionizer. These things plug into the wall and can easily change the pH down tp 2.5 or up to 9.5 just by the charge. You can find an ionizer like enagic or jupiter on ebay.
Hi,
Yes, a separate water ionizer unit is the way to go for personal drinking water and maybe for fueling a small car, but they are expensive and need to change out the filter cartridges after so many gallons.
The method proposed by peterfallenbach was a simple cheap way to "charging water on demand" going into the engine.
The idea being that maybe charged water, by ionizing it, might improve our plasma spark ignition efficiency to fuel an engine.
Regards,
Michael Randall
Quote from: capacitor70 on July 21, 2008, 11:31:26 AM
You are not reading my all posts, It is already there in forum and working with less number of components...
Yes, missed too.
Some more info, please.
Increasing LV voltage?
Not increasing LV capacitor from 330uF up to 470uF, but decreasing down to....?
Thanks
magneto_DC
The woodward is not what we look for. HV discharge lasts for 40 us, but plasma only the first 2us.
Where can I learn more about charging the water? You can burn charged water cant you?
Quote from: Super God on July 21, 2008, 02:35:10 PM
Where can I learn more about charging the water? You can burn charged water cant you?
Hi,
Charging water here is called ionizing water to a range of pH 2 to 12 from a average water pH of 7, with the idea of not adding additional minerial ions. Drinking water already has mineral ions included that can be further ionized.
From Wiki:
A water ionizer separates water into an alkaline fraction and an acid fraction. It does this by exploiting the electric charge of the calcium and magnesium ions present in nearly all sources of drinking water. When a source of water lacks mineral ions -- such as distilled water or water filtered via reverse osmosis -- a water ionizer has negligible effect.
Here is a comparison of Water Ionizers on the market:
http://www.jupiterionizers.com/catalog/compare-technos-Marvello.htm
An Introduction to Dissolved Ions
http://drake.marin.k12.ca.us/stuwork/ROCKwater/Dissolved%20Ions/an%20introduction%20to%20dissolved%20ions.html
Regards,
Michael Randall
Hi guys,
I'm tired of puling that engine cord. >:(
Sometimes I get one single explosion but that's it.
I'm still using gasoline.
When I use a direct connection between the HV coil and the plug it starts right away.
When I use the circuit It just won't start. with or without the power supply on.
I have good HV sparks outside de engine but they are no good to ignite that gas.
Another interesting result. When I try to use the power supply which is a computer UPS:
http://www.apcc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=BK650MI
400W 230VAC... well 170VAC measured. :-\
outside the engine first spark is loud, and the following are much weaker...
INSIDE the engine the UPS just can't stand the pain... it shuts down by overload.
Overload? why? 400W to charge a 330uF capacitor passing throw a 75W bulb????
If I exchange the polarity of the capacitor70 coil in one end the UPS overloads every time.
By the way! after building a coil just like capacitor70 did, I confirmed the sparking between the windings of the magnetic wire used. So today I picked up a HV coil from a 9" monitor, removed the core and did the same coil but with 2,5mm section insulated wire has secondary. Did not notice any sparks at the coil any more and the result was also good.
I'm starting to think that leave the diode arrangement was not viable idea. But it is very economic thow! ;)
I hope these results help capacitor70 and every one else.
Aloha,
I found a champian spark plug made for boats, it's a halo plug . Part # L76V , has anyone tried using one.
I believe it is resistorless...
Mahalo Nui Loa
HV
COIL HEAT TESTS #1
Ok...here is some info about the heat of the coil upon use!
The temp on start of the coil is 99F
The temp on start of the plug is 98F
Both coil and plug were sitting in my un-air conditioned shop all day in the Florida heat ;D
The test is 5 mins long, stopping at one min intervals to take measurements.
120+ plasma fires per one min.
NO water was used during test except for some during the last min interval.
MIN Coil Temp Plug Temp
1 112 100
2 120 102
3 130 106
4 145 110
5 142 108 <~~ I sprayed water on plug during this min!
More tests need to be made with water being sprayed all the time. And longer amounts of time.
Xbox,
Good to see you doing some temp. testing.. I wonder what the max temp will end up at ?
Are you still using the same coil?
Quote from: happyvalley808 on July 21, 2008, 06:51:39 PM
Xbox,
Good to see you doing some temp. testing.. I wonder what the max temp will end up at ?
Are you still using the same coil?
I think 150ish...
The first image is my coil that i have used in most of vids... the second image is the parts i used to make it. Its just a choke on a ferrite rod, then i wrapped a primary onto it using a some coil wire from a microwave transformer.
BTW...the gap on my plug is .060" ...
"The bigger the gap the bigger the snap!"TM ;D ;D
@Xbox Which is your secondary ? Use thick copper wire for secondary , In Xbox image secondary wire looks very thin. It may not pass high current effectively and become hot.
Here is the simple circuit diagram of my 700Hz 250V AC inverter, It works great not much heating of Mosfet....
If you want to go for more high frequency you need to consider following points.
1. MOSFET diver is must.
2. Use ferrite core.
3. MOSFET gate capacitor..
in my engine test I am not using any inverter, Inverter turansformer is burned by mistake...
R2+VR1 and C2 gives you frequency
Freq=1/(5RC)
Quote from: capacitor70 on July 21, 2008, 10:18:34 PM
@Xbox Which is your secondary ? Use thick copper wire for secondary , In Xbox image secondary wire looks very thin. It may not pass high current effectively and become hot.
Here is the simple circuit diagram of my 700Hz 250V AC inverter, It works great not much heating of Mosfet....
If you want to go for more high frequency you need to consider following points.
1. MOSFET diver is must.
2. Use ferrite core.
3. MOSFET gate capacitor..
in my engine test I am not using any inverter, Inverter turansformer is burned by mistake...
R2+VR1 and C2 gives you frequency
Freq=1/(5RC)
The secondary is the small wire...i can not get a toroidal coil to work to save my life! But I have been using the linear coil for days! The linear coil was a choke that i wrapped the primary wire around...so i did have to make the secondary myself...it was already dun ;D
I HAVE AN AMAZING VIDEO TO SHOW EVERY ONE!!! It is a must see....as soon as youtube is dun with maintenance >:(
As for the capacitor charging, i dont think is its a issue (not as much as i thought it was) I fire the plasma rapidly and the spark seems to become less and less.... but if i spray water on it, when it is low, the spark is fantastic!!! All my tests were with no water, but you add the water and it seems to be fine!
Quote from: xbox hacker on July 21, 2008, 11:42:33 PM
I HAVE AN AMAZING VIDEO TO SHOW EVERY ONE!!! It is a must see....as soon as youtube is dun with maintenance >:(
HERE IS THE VIDEO!!!!!
Please watch these videos!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jr_xWnej-gc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3E_dAh5ZRcs <~~~this one is just for fun!!!! ;D
Very nice videos! I hope to make one soon. I have job lined up soon for extra cash for parts.
Another UPDATE:
I made a new coil with wire form a microwave transformer, i used it for the primary and the secondary. It works great and now it barely gets hot! I might do some more heat trials to see for sure........
Hi people,
Has any one taken trials with spark under pressure and see what hapens?
Capacitor70
Because of my results with the coil arrangement I will go back to the diode setup.
Can you please help me understand how did you go for the 6a10 diodes?
6Amps why? How can the diodes stand the discharge of the capacitor since it is a short when the gap is pulsed with HV? The current here is theoretically infinite right?
Now the voltage blocking.
You say 19x 6a4 which gives a 7600V blocking or 12x 6a10 which gives 12000V blocking voltage.
Why did you go for this values?
I don't know what is my coil output voltage but I've read that 40000V is normal.
I'm asking you this not because it doesn't work. It DOES WORK! But I need to find the cheapest diode arrangement to continue the tests, and without this data I'm a bit tied up.
Because of my results with the coil arrangement I will go back to the diode setup.
Why ? What are coil results ?
Can you please help me understand how did you go for the 6a10 diodes?
6Amps why? How can the diodes stand the discharge of the capacitor since it is a short when the gap is pulsed with HV? The current here is theoretically infinite right?
Diode have 400Amps Transient current capacity for 8.3mSec
Now the voltage blocking.
You say 19x 6a4 which gives a 7600V blocking or 12x 6a10 which gives 12000V blocking voltage.
Why did you go for this values?
increase number of diodes until see spark on the tip of spark plug
I don't know what is my coil output voltage but I've read that 40000V is normal.
Yes it is 40000Kv, but 3000 to 6000V is enough to generate spark at the tip
I'm asking you this not because it doesn't work. It DOES WORK! But I need to find the cheapest diode arrangement to continue the tests, and without this data I'm a bit tied up.
There is no cheapest diode arrangement, Diodes get very hot NOT SUITABLE FOR LONGER TEST TIMES, Don't go for diodes, coil solves all problems
@rfsimoes:
I too started with the diode setup and got great results, but my diodes got so hot that the solder melted and the diodes fell apart! The same thing happened to Cap70.
@everyone:
I will be testing Cap70's coil setup in a B&S 14hp engine tonight!!! PLEASE cross your fingers for me ;D ;D
Hello all, I'm Remoi from waterfuel1978 group.
@xbox
I cross fingers for you, you are a nice man, you share all your test and the last one with the sparkplug under water is just wonderful. I hope you will start the engine tonight on water ;)
@capacitor70
I was so close to your diode setup instead that my lub was after the bridge and was 100w. That was my biggest mistake. But as I don't have any knowledge in electronic, I never tried without the lamp. I surely started the engine 2 years ago if I knew that the lamp limits the power of my setup to 100w.
Now the car we was testing on is sold. I just get a lawnmower running perfectly on gas. Tomorrow I will try again my diode setup on it (I tried today but the sparkplug is resistive >:( I need non resistive one). if I get results, I then will go for your coil system.
You talk about 1100pf and 6000v. So i can use 3x 3.3nf@2000v in serie ?
Also can you explain me/us more about your core ? what size, what material ? The green wire, is it just a simple insulated wire we can find anywhere or something else ?
What do you think about the 330?f capacitor (I use 470) ? Will it survive on a long time engine run at high RPM ?
Thank you also for your tests and sharing it.
Best regards
Remoi
Once again thank you for you patience
Why ? What are coil results ?
I couldn't start my engine on gasoline with that >:(
Please check my post about that just a few posts earlier on this page.
increase number of diodes until see spark on the tip of spark plug
I don't know what is my coil output voltage but I've read that 40000V is normal.
Yes it is 40000Kv, but 3000 to 6000V is enough to generate spark at the tip
Right, got it. But then there is still voltage and some low current going back to bridge and power supply!
Not a problem? ???
There is no cheapest diode arrangement, Diodes get very hot NOT SUITABLE FOR LONGER TEST TIMES, Don't go for diodes, coil solves all problems
I did like the coil arrangement but didn't like the result...
@xbox hacker
I think all of us wish the best of luck. We need another video of proof of concept so I think I speak for all of us...
We all want that engine to fart and start. GOOD LUCK
Quote from: rfsimoes on July 23, 2008, 10:06:58 AM
Once again thank you for you patience
Why ? What are coil results ?
I couldn't start my engine on gasoline with that >:(
Please check my post about that just a few posts earlier on this page.
increase number of diodes until see spark on the tip of spark plug
I don't know what is my coil output voltage but I've read that 40000V is normal.
Yes it is 40000Kv, but 3000 to 6000V is enough to generate spark at the tip
Right, got it. But then there is still voltage and some low current going back to bridge and power supply!
Not a problem? ???
There is no cheapest diode arrangement, Diodes get very hot NOT SUITABLE FOR LONGER TEST TIMES, Don't go for diodes, coil solves all problems
I did like the coil arrangement but didn't like the result...
Might i suggest something.....
I did all my vidoes on a bench with a automotive coil... now i am goin to test on my engine witch is a magneto(much less power) When i first hooked it up the magneto, it didnt work!!! AT ALL!!! But i made the spark gap smaller on the HV side and now it works fine! I would suggest to ANYONE to use a spark air gap tester like this for you HV side spark gap switch...
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.toolfetch.com%2Fmedia%2F45298.jpg%3Futm_source%3D%26amp%3Butm_medium%3DGS%26amp%3Butm_campaign%3Dtoolfetch%26amp%3Bcm_ite%3D&hash=212992c93a073f97a4202b345243930225cc540d)
So you can "dial-in" the right conditions to get it to work. If you watch my vids, you will see the tool on the left hand side.
Also i can now confirm that HV spark polarity is NOT important with Cap70's coil setup!!! It works with my magneto. The diode setup would not allow me to have the plug body grounded to the engine with the magneto, the spark would not work at all. With the coil setup it now works 100%!!
Also the HV caps are VERY important!!! I would suggest 500pF and 6kV (or more)!!! I had a hard time gettting my coil to work too because of the caps!!
Quote from: xbox hacker on July 23, 2008, 10:25:01 AM
Might i suggest something.....
I did all my vidoes on a bench with a automotive coil... now i am goin to test on my engine witch is a magneto(much less power) When i first hooked it up the magneto, it didnt work!!! AT ALL!!! But i made the spark gap smaller on the HV side and now it works fine! I would suggest to ANYONE to use a spark air gap tester like this for you HV side spark gap switch...
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.toolfetch.com%2Fmedia%2F45298.jpg%3Futm_source%3D%26amp%3Butm_medium%3DGS%26amp%3Butm_campaign%3Dtoolfetch%26amp%3Bcm_ite%3D&hash=212992c93a073f97a4202b345243930225cc540d)
So you can "dial-in" the right conditions to get it to work. If you watch my vids, you will see the tool on the left hand side.
Also i can now confirm that HV spark polarity is NOT important with Cap70's coil setup!!! It works with my magneto. The diode setup would not allow me to have the plug body grounded to the engine with the magneto, the spark would not work at all. With the coil setup it now works 100%!!
Also the HV caps are VERY important!!! I would suggest 500pF and 6kV (or more)!!! I had a hard time gettting my coil to work too because of the caps!!
Hi,
Nice videos of Cap70's latest design.
Here are some spark plug testers online:
http://www.toolfetch.com/Category--Automotive--Spark_Testers-cat.shtml
Regards,
Michael Randall
Quote from: xbox hacker on July 23, 2008, 09:08:55 AM
@rfsimoes:
I too started with the diode setup and got great results, but my diodes got so hot that the solder melted and the diodes fell apart! The same thing happened to Cap70.
@everyone:
I will be testing Cap70's coil setup in a B&S 14hp engine tonight!!! PLEASE cross your fingers for me ;D ;D
Hi xbox,
Good luck with your testing on the B&S engine! Looking forward to your video of the testing.
WIll the timing have to be changed to 30-40 deg. After TDS?
Regards,
Michael Randall
QuoteYou talk about 1100pf and 6000v. So i can use 3x 3.3nf@2000v in serie ?
Also can you explain me/us more about your core ? what size, what material ? The green wire, is it just a simple insulated wire we can find anywhere or something else ?
What do you think about the 330?f capacitor (I use 470) ? Will it survive on a long time engine run at high RPM ?
Any size and shape of ferrite core works....iron core also works but not efficient....
Yesterday I made coil with simple insulated wires, primary with 8 Turns (green wire low current wire) and secondary 24 Turns (10Amps capacity) on ferrite rod.
It works nice, but you need more capacitors use 5 capacitors of 2000V ratings, so that voltage will not drop across capacitor, and use 500pf capacitors (5 capacitors of approx 4200pf in series) Don't go for single high voltage capacitor, use of multiple capacitors perfectly blocks HV.
If you use high value of capacitor all HV gets dropped across capacitor and no spark at primary side, no spark on secondary.
If you see spark on primary side and no spark on secondary, It means you need more number of turns for secondary or higher insulation resistance of wire.
for LV side 470uF capacitor works nice. We are at the stage of engine starting, not much RPM ::) ....
@vrand:
Not for now, i will try to use the stock timing for the engine. But if i have to change it....i will. My goal is to make this as simple as i can, so others can copy it with ease ;D
Also the total cost for me to set this up using AC main power is $0.00 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D I used all scrap parts i FOUND!
Anyone know what the stock timing might be at on B&S 14HP engine?
This is several videos showing waters power exploding. Blows several things apart in earlier videos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiRqrQC7DJ8&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiRqrQC7DJ8&feature=related)
Darren
Quote from: xbox hacker on July 23, 2008, 11:10:09 AM
@vrand:
Not for now, i will try to use the stock timing for the engine. But if i have to change it....i will. My goal is to make this as simple as i can, so others can copy it with ease ;D
Also the total cost for me to set this up using AC main power is $0.00 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D I used all scrap parts i FOUND!
Anyone know what the stock timing might be at on B&S 14HP engine?
Hi xbox,
From what I've googled, the ignition is fixed on the B&S flywheel with a key, and opens few degrees before TDC. S1R ran his B&S without changing the timing, but the RPM surged a bit and only idled.
Some say that a standard inverter charger at 60Hz cant charge fast enough for higher engine power output.
Great to hear you had all the parts needed to build a unit for free :)
Regards,
Michael Randall
Quote from: Dmoney on July 23, 2008, 12:37:03 PM
This is several videos showing waters power exploding. Blows several things apart in earlier videos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiRqrQC7DJ8&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiRqrQC7DJ8&feature=related)
Darren
Hi Dmoney
Interesting video on the experiment where you submurged the spark plug in lots of water (6min 50sec into the video) and it exploded the water and blew the 1 liter bottle and cap off the mount!
What kind of water did you use? Which circuit used to power the spark plug?
Regards,
Michael Randall
It is not my video. If you notice it is #12. There are 14 videos. In video 2 he starts using just tap water and does not change thru the rest. He is not revealing everything yet, but I think in video 8 or 9 he show inside the box and talks of PWM and frequency.
Darren
hi guys,
ive been reading this thread for a while now, after watching capacitor70's video i cant wait to see what results xbox gets.
i found this whilst searching the net
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=CwmOjUBuBzkC&pg=PA262&lpg=PA262&dq=anomalous+pressure+water+explosion&source=web&ots=evGzj7hPm-&sig=s2QPtVRuzk5B_8jYr5_BiixTwY8&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=8&ct=result#PPA270,M1 (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=CwmOjUBuBzkC&pg=PA262&lpg=PA262&dq=anomalous+pressure+water+explosion&source=web&ots=evGzj7hPm-&sig=s2QPtVRuzk5B_8jYr5_BiixTwY8&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=8&ct=result#PPA270,M1)
i think it's describing what we're seeing.
the reason im posting is this, on the graph on page 270 of the link i posted, is it showing that the kinetic energy (or total energy) released is greater than the energy stored in the capacitor?
or am i not interpreting the graph correctly?
thanks
good luck to all
Quote from: KSW on July 23, 2008, 02:31:48 PM
the reason im posting is this, on the graph on page 270 of the link i posted, is it showing that the kinetic energy (or total energy) released is greater than the energy stored in the capacitor?
or am i not interpreting the graph correctly?
Hi,
Thank you for the url. Yes, output energy > than input. Peter Graneau's water explosion experiments indicate an anomalous kinetic energy. As more ppl run their engines on water, more scientist will be interested in further studying what is this anomalous energy source.
I am leaning toward Orgone energy as being the source. Water attracts and captures Orgone energy and at high voltage/current releases it.
Regards,
Michael Randall
@xbox
So you can "dial-in" the right conditions to get it to work. If you watch my vids, you will see the tool on the left hand side.
Thank you for your suggestions.
It seems to me that you think my coil setup doesn't work on the bench. It works very well on the bench, just like the diode setup. The result on the bench is the same.
With the coil setup I got the spark gap up to 2 milimiters wide and working.
It's inside the engine that I have problems. I cannot understand what is wrong.
You can do just a simple test and take your own conclusions.
Take your engine and a spark plug with normal gap and see how wide can you increase the gap before it stops igniting gasoline.
Do this with the original ignition from the engine, no circuit or modifications.
Maybe I should just pour in some water into the cylinder and push the cord...
@rfsimoes:
Sorry man..i thought you couldnt get it to work at all...lol ::)
Anyway, i tried my setup in an engine...here are the results...
-It didnt run...lol
-Spurattic firing (some times it was fine ???)
-Steam doesnt do anything...not even on the bench!
-The engine and chassis is LIVE....so dont touch it while not wearing shoes...LOL
-Could be a timing issue....its to dark out now to mess with timing
Now here is what i think rfsimoes and i have in common....it would seem to me that it will not fire under pressure!! I had the plug out and it fired every time the magnet passed the magneto or the pickup for the automotive coil. In the engine i can see the waste spark firing... it lights up the inside of the exhaust port. But i looks like it was not firing when it should have for the power stroke. Like it misses the power stroke fire and just fires the waste spark.
So now i will build a small PVC pressure chamber and put the plug in it and put some compressed air into it too.... and see what happens...
Now, not firing under pressure is kinds funny, because it will fire under water!!!! :-\
QuoteNow, not firing under pressure is kinds funny, because it will fire under water!!!!
Same observation, But not sure.....
Engine is not running with gasoline and coil based plasma circuit....
I thought some thing problem with circuit.....
with 125CC engine it gives blast sound on exhaust cycle, but not running the engine with gasoline....
@Xbox,
Nice video of the plug under water, have you tried placing a heavy object over the plug after you fill it with water.
like Peter Graneau's experiments?
HV
@Cap70:
I tried to go back to gas too, it didnt work with gas for me either.
@HV:
No i didnt...to be honest, i didnt even think about it...lol
Quote from: capacitor70 on July 23, 2008, 09:51:05 PM
with 125CC engine it gives blast sound on exhaust cycle, but not running the engine with gasoline....
Hi Cap70,
Sounds like your ignition timing is off? S1r says spark firing should be 30-40 deg after TDC.
Also, do you have a waste spark (ignition coil firing every crank rotation)? That blast sound you hear is the waste spark igniting on the exhaust stroke.
Regards,
Michael Randall
xbox and capacitor,
im a little confused, you say its not running. Are you saying its not running at all even with normal spark and on gas, or are you saying its not running on PLASMA spark with gas???
If it will run with normal spark and gas, i cant figure why it wont run with the plasma spark and gas. Unless the plasma spark is being delayed slightly and its throwing the timing off to "after top dead center"
If i were you guys what i would try is to turn the timing back so it would hardly run with normal spark and then try it with the plasma spark and see if you can get the plasma spark to run with gasoline like this.
Be careful, you can turn a small engine timing back far enough it will cause the engine to run backwards, i worked on a kawasaki racing 3 wheeler one time and we were goofing around with the timeing and finaly got it to run, and my buddy jumped on it, throwed it into gear, and it nearly threw him over the handle bars, it was running backwards and going in reverse ;D. True story, and it ran good too.
atlasman
Quote from: xbox hacker on July 23, 2008, 09:42:41 PM
@rfsimoes:
Sorry man..i thought you couldnt get it to work at all...lol ::)
Anyway, i tried my setup in an engine...here are the results...
-It didnt run...lol
-Spurattic firing (some times it was fine ???)
-Steam doesnt do anything...not even on the bench!
-The engine and chassis is LIVE....so dont touch it while not wearing shoes...LOL
-Could be a timing issue....its to dark out now to mess with timing
Now here is what i think rfsimoes and i have in common....it would seem to me that it will not fire under pressure!! I had the plug out and it fired every time the magnet passed the magneto or the pickup for the automotive coil. In the engine i can see the waste spark firing... it lights up the inside of the exhaust port. But i looks like it was not firing when it should have for the power stroke. Like it misses the power stroke fire and just fires the waste spark.
So now i will build a small PVC pressure chamber and put the plug in it and put some compressed air into it too.... and see what happens...
Now, not firing under pressure is kinds funny, because it will fire under water!!!! :-\
Hi xbox,
Yea, it sounds like your timing needs to be adjusted to 30-40 deg after TDC.
The waste spark sounds like problem when you have to charge up the cap and the cap cant charge up fast enough to fire on every stroke?
Regards,
Michael Randall
Sounds like your ignition timing is off? S1r says spark firing should be 30-40 deg after TDC.
We are saying engine is not running with gasoline.
Also, do you have a waste spark (ignition coil firing every crank rotation)? That blast sound you hear is the waste spark igniting on the exhaust stroke.
Yes we have waste spark, Plasma spark comes at only waste spark, No spark under pressure.
im a little confused, you say its not running. Are you saying its not running at all even with normal spark and on gas, or are you saying its not running on PLASMA spark with gas???
We are also confused, xbox, rfsimoes , and me tried this new coil based plasma system, It works best outside the engine, but inside the engine it is not running engine with gasoline...But the same engine with same timings works with diode based plasma circuit. Without LV on it generates normal spark but normal spark generated after the coil is not running engine with gasoline. It fires at atmospheric pressure but not at engine pressure inside cylinder.
If it will run with normal spark and gas, i cant figure why it wont run with the plasma spark and gas. Unless the plasma spark is being delayed slightly and its throwing the timing off to "after top dead center"
It's not a engine timing issue....
The waste spark sounds like problem when you have to charge up the cap and the cap cant charge up fast enough to fire on every stroke?
Capacitor charging is not the problem it works much fast enough outside the engine....
Spark plug outside the engine, when we kick the engine plasma spark is visible and fast enough, Not a single fire is observed with gasoline with coil based plasma circuit.... ??? ??? ???
http://www.odu.edu/ao/instadv/quest/coldplasma.html
"It?s easy to make plasmas at low pressures, like the near-vacuum of space. It?s much harder to initiate and maintain them at low temperature and at atmospheric pressure,? :o What we see with coil based plasma circuit is cold plasma :o
But I observed temperature, It?s much harder to initiate under pressure.. ???
But previous voltage multiplier circuit triggers plasma discharge when I give pressure ???
Quote from: capacitor70 on July 24, 2008, 12:45:08 AM
Sounds like your ignition timing is off? S1r says spark firing should be 30-40 deg after TDC.
But the same engine with same timings works with diode based plasma circuit. Without LV on it generates normal spark but normal spark generated after the coil is not running engine with gasoline. It fires at atmospheric pressure but not at engine pressure inside cylinder.
Spark plug outside the engine, when we kick the engine plasma spark is visible and fast enough, Not a single fire is observed with gasoline with coil based plasma circuit.... ??? ??? ???
Interesting problem. It looks like there is something special and different is going on with the Diode circuit vs the new Coil circuit, to be able to ignite water in the engine one way but not the other.
Anyway to increase the volts and amps in the Coil circuit? Like increasing the LV cap from 340uf to say 600uf? To also increase the HV side to raise the voltage from 10kv to say 60kv?
Regards,
Michael Randall
Quote from: capacitor70 on July 24, 2008, 12:45:08 AM
But previous voltage multiplier circuit triggers plasma discharge when I give pressure ???
I am thinking the VA is difference in the circuits. S1r says needs 10amps at 20-60kv to run an engine on water. Somehow the coil circuit is not strong enough in either the V or A output vs your voltage multiplier circuit?
Another possible difference is the Dt, the rate of change to discharge. One circuit is faster than the other. Tesla observed that the faster the rate of discharge the greater the effect.
Michael
Hello all
@cap70 & @xbox,
You put 3 capacitor in serie to get 6KV ... OK. But do you think there is also 6KV at the LV sparkplug ? If it's the case, then here is the problem. That's why standard HV ignition coils are 16 to 40KV. HV spark in air pressure is easy to get at 6KV but under pressure you will need close to what a standard HV coil is : 16 to 40KV. So, more and more 2000v capacitors in serie at HV side of the circuit.
Because no HV spark at LV side, no plasma !
What do you think about this theory ?
Best Regards
Remoi
Maybe someone with a scope could look at the 2 spark signals and see the difference between the 2 of them. I may be saying nonsense but maybe there is a delay in the spark.
For now I just want replicate the same result cap70 has with his engine, and since I only have a 2 stroke whit oil mixture for tests, I will buy today some 1N5408 diodes and go from there.
This coil setup maybe just needs some tuning so in the mean while I will try the diodes once again.
@Capacitor70
What do you think about the 1n5408? 1000V 3A DC 200A peak
They are very cheap and abundant around here.
@Remoireturn:
Good idea, you are right, less voltage normal spark WILL NOT fire under higher pressure..... I just bought a 30kv 500pF cap....we will see....
@vrand:
The rate to discharge is not an issue.... with no plug in the engine, it will spin easier...so when i have hte setup hooked up the engine and the coil setup on a small table next to it, i can see the plasma on the plug when i turn it over. So, the engine turns over super fast and the plasma fires EVERY TIME! As fast as the engine can turn!
Also you can plainly see that the system is only firing on the waste spark stroke, i can see the plasma inside the head, through the exhaust port...and that is the only time it fires.
What is reason ? ???
Exactly opposite of ignition coil, performance with resistance test
Quote from: capacitor70 on July 24, 2008, 08:25:20 AM
What is reason ? ???
Exactly opposite of ignition coil, performance with resistance test
Do not understand what you say right here.
But not firing the spark inside the engine (with your less HV magneto ingnition). Doesnt it require to narrow the gap?
magneto_DC
@xbox
I hope it will work inside the engine with your HV cap. Doesn't it takes too much time to charge ?
@cap70
I don't really understand your scheme and result, but the right draw is exactly what happen when we put in place a resistive sparkplug (they have 10K resistor in it). So the LV capacitor discharge in it instead of discharging in the HV spark = no plasma.
Remoi
The coil shown in diagram is secondary of toroidal transformer
At the secondary of my coil high voltage comes and make spark without LV circuit in series.
This HV have some properties, It will not spark when 10KOhm resistance is in series with the coil. But it works if the resistance is in parallel.
Ignition coil with resistance in series generates spark, But if 10KOhm resistance is in parallel with Ignition coil no spark at the spark plug.
In above test I have not used LV.
with gasoline, carbon deposition on the tip of spark plug creates problem with coil based plasma circuit.
The coil shown in diagram is secondary of toroidal transformer
At the secondary of my coil high voltage comes and make spark without LV circuit in series.
This HV have some properties, It will not spark when 10KOhm resistance is in series with the coil. But it works if the resistance is in parallel.
Ignition coil with resistance in series generates spark, But if 10KOhm resistance is in parallel with Ignition coil no spark at the spark plug.
In above test I have not used LV.
with gasoline, carbon deposition on the tip of spark plug creates problem with coil based plasma circuit.
Quote from: capacitor70 on July 24, 2008, 10:26:25 AM
The coil shown in diagram is secondary of toroidal transformer
At the secondary of my coil high voltage comes and make spark without LV circuit in series.
This HV have some properties, It will not spark when 10KOhm resistance is in series with the coil. But it works if the resistance is in parallel.
Ignition coil with resistance in series generates spark, But if 10KOhm resistance is in parallel with Ignition coil no spark at the spark plug.
In above test I have not used LV.
with gasoline, carbon deposition on the tip of spark plug creates problem with coil based plasma circuit.
It is now the situation OUTSIDE the engine, you are describing?
Because before, you didnt get a spark INSIDE the engine?
What I understand, when running plasma spark outside, the spark plug gap of the plasma spark must be wider / larger than the spark plug gap of the secundary, initiating, LV-side spark plug. (You said then, the initiating spark plug gab must be smaller).
Now, the plasma spark is INSIDE engine and in a pressureized atmosphere. So we have to get a smaller gap. Maybe the gap inside (plasma) has to be more narrow than the gap outside (initiating spark plug).
magneto_DC
Here is my material to this afternoon trials.
From left to right
1-? 11 pairs of 1N5408 (2 diodes in parallel x11 in series)
2-? again 11 pairs of 1N5408. Same schematic but with different displacement.
3-? 13 P1000J diodes in series.
I asked for 6A10 diodes and the hawser was:
Sales man: Which voltage?
Me: Well 6A10 are 1000V aren't they?
Sales man: I have 600V rated.
Me OK, give me allot of them! ;)
Sales man: here you go, I only have 13.
Now that I look at the diodes I see that they are not 6A10 but P1000J diodes. I feel deceived... >:(
I now see that this diode is 600V 10A DC 400A peak rated so its similar. BUT IT'S NOT THE SAME ;D
If I ask for a lime I don't want to be given a lemon...
So any way, lets see the results later on.
Sounds like a voltage issue. Or not enough current to maintain the spark. Maybe we need ore turns or a better coupling to the engine plug.
Quote(NOTICE)... ON AUGUST 10th 2008 ALL FILES WILL BE DELETED THAT HAVE NOT BEEN REMOVED BY THE PERSON THAT POSTED IT. THIS IS NESSARY SO A MAIN FILE CAN BE LOADED INTO THE FILES AREA THAT CONTAINS A LOT OF DATA. PLEASE COPY THE FILES THAT YOU WISH TO SAVE AND REMOVE THEM BEFORE THIS DATE.
This is from Waterfuel1978 main page.....lol
@Remoireturn:
Dont know how much time it will take...we will see. But i am sure it will take less time to charge then for me to actually receive the cap...LOL
@Super God:
This is a quote form cap70....
QuoteIf you increase number of turns on secondary it reduces the current flow of LV. with more number of you can see good plasma spark but the effect of water gets reduced. Explosion is weak.
But i think i will try it just the same....i got nothing better to do while waiting for my caps!!!!
Oh men I'm so frustraded... >:(
Everything was ok and expectable until I exchanged gasoline with water.
Got good sparks with diodes.
Got the engine running with only HV then turned on LV and everything was ok.
With the engine running on gas and plasma I removed the hose from the gas tank and stick it in a water reservoir.
Engine died...
After that I tried to revert things to run on gas and... engine never started again.
I think my carburettor doesn't like water. I always find a black crap inside the carb after use water.
I sow a white gely mixture of gas, oil and water stick on top of the piston.
I need to test the mixture outside the engine. maybe its the oil mixture that doesn't go along with water.
I hope nothing is wrong inside the engine... :-\
Someone sent this to me, it's from Sir;
" Well first I want to thank the hacker who just intered my pc world .
thanks for the heads up there. No files in this pc was there. HAHA.
I do know who the hacker is so no problem to stealing no files or
personal info from this pc..
Now One week before I released the first video I was offered 43
million dollars to help develope this project. When I ask where the
money came from, (was it government tax dollars) they could not
answer. I told them that I had given MY WORD that I would release the
info on line. They had no comment.
I then desided to make the video to prove this works, so the first
time was not professinaly shot, nor was the second or third, I'm not
a movie producer so bare with the shabby workmanship.
I do realize that I have only a short time to get the info to every
one.
The file is large and will take a long time to down load. To keep
the file intact it will be down loaded by a server online and be
broad cast world wide at one time. Any web site that is linked to the
topic will resieve the info.
So I ant in it for the money and they know it now.
S1R. "
Power Inverter and relays - $300
1978 El Camino- $5,999
Getting people for 3 years to believe you have it running on water - Priceless
Quote43 million
..............LOL!!!!!!!
QuoteTo keep
the file intact it will be down loaded by a server online and be
broad cast world wide at one time. Any web site that is linked to the
topic will resieve the info.
......sounds like a pay site....LOL ..."get your check book ready, operators are standing by" ;)
Higher the current higher the water blast , I observed video of coil based plasma circuit, it works like plasma welding machine no good effect of water, and eats spark plug at very high rate...
I am making diode circuit again to take trials....
Make some combination of Coil based and Diode circuit to get much better result
as shown in diagram instead of 10KOhm (parallel to coil) resistance place diode and LV in series, one diode in series(to prevent LV flow from coil) with coil to get good result, both advantages comes here less number of diodes required.....
BE CAREFUL DO NOT REPLY TO ANY E-MAIL, Messenger is simplest way to hack PC, This main reason I am not posting anything on yahoo group, no email...
Actually,that quote from s1r was a reply to the post a I put on danieldingeldotcom,it included this group also,thank you all for being able so see beyond the almighty dollar,and even if you do consider s1r a fraud,at least he has peaked a lot of interest in a subject that sorely needed it and for that I thank him as well......if anyone cares...here is the post albeit a little off topic I guess......
by whopper1967 on Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:28 am
Well,obviously alot of people have been working on alternative energy.But much like it looks like this project has headed,when they sell them,if the technology doesnt get burried,who can afford it?My guess the people who really need it right now,the poor people wont be able to afford it anyway,because it will be sold to the highest bidder for profit.Nobody seems to care that the planet goes to crap on a daily basis.Nobody cares that the poor people have to spend half of their earnings just to get to work.Nobody cares about the millions of people who have died throughout the years fighting over OIL in the rich mans war.As long as they have their almighty dollar,they go on happily using poor people for a doormat.I am almost ashamed to admit that until a few months ago I didnt realize just how screwed up things really were.I mean I did have some idea,but wow.I mean really,if daniel cares about the things that his movie clips claim,and if this is real and not some hoax,what in the world are you waiting for?I am definately not rich,just a working man that will have to remain that way until I die.I have never voted,ever,simply because no matter who wins always has their best interest at heart and to hell with everyone else.I have seen a very few exceptions to this.The only way to truly bring this to the poor people worldwide,and there are plenty...WORLDWIDE,is to have it open source,much like the fine folks at overunitydotcom and waterfuel1978dotcom have.If you cannot do this and sell out to the rich men to become one yourself,you have just wasted what could be a gift to all humanity.I mean really,just look at the long long list of great inventions buried by THE RICH MAN.I am not saying this is a hoax,because like many I want to hold out hope that there is something better,but I can see no reason with todays internet why this cant be an open source project.Please tell me how selling this to ethos or any other rich company is going to help your people or my people or anybody elses except the rich people.
Hi all,
I've just tried the diode system without lamp. Very bad idea. Especially if you are testing on the house socket. All my diodes blew up and the L shape of sparkplug as been soldered :-\
The house can deliver too much power, so we absolutly need to limit current in the circuit.
I will try to night with 4x 100w lamps in parallel (for a 400w limitation) to see what happen. Oh yes, my engine runs perfectly on fuel and starts on the first try, so it's a good base to test on water.
Remoi
@Remoireturn
Did only the diode chain blew up or also the rectifying diodes?
Non inductive plasma generation coil, We need more test to confirm effect of pressure, Why you are waiting for me to build it ? ???
Hi cap,
I have been trying to find thing to replicate your circuit but i cant find capacitors, or diodes easily. will be trying again this weekend.
can u explaint he last circuit more.
IE the bipolar wound ect,
and how u anticipate the current flow
Should we use the ferrite core for the bifilar windings and the hv winding? They are all on the same core right?
Maybe the polarity of the spark has something to do with it as well. The polarity of the plasma blast I mean. The diodes force it to go one way, the coil does not. There HAS to be a way to force the current through the plug without using a ton of diodes.
I was toying around with the bifilar coil idea...i think this should work...
LET ME KNOW...
Quote from: Park34 on July 25, 2008, 01:39:59 PM
Hi cap,
I have been trying to find thing to replicate your circuit but i cant find capacitors, or diodes easily. will be trying again this weekend.
can u explaint he last circuit more.
IE the bipolar wound ect,
and how u anticipate the current flow
Its actually Bifilar (ie. two windings) Do a google search for Tesla Bifilar Coil........TONS OF INFO!!!!
The most funny thing is i have mentioned Bifilar coil when GotoLuc had stared his thread, "URGENT..balh blah blah"...and i got flamed..LOL. If you look at that threads first page (thats where the info was), Luc deleted most of my post!! >:(
The direction of the winding of the coil IS IMPORTANT!!!
Stan Meyer also used a bifilar coil for her work. I have made a lawton PWM...useing a bifilar coil i was able to make good amounts of HHO with only 0.8 amps!!!!!
@Xbox and all
The drawing shown by Xbox is wrong, actually bifilar coil is not used here for boosting voltage, it is two coil in opposite direction so that total inductance is zero.
core is same ferrite core, construction also same only difference is in secondary winding, diode should not come in series with LV circuit.
Why we are removing inductance and diode ?
To allow more energy in the plasma, with inductance maximum energy go into electromagnetic radiation,
Across diode energy gets lost as heat.
for waveforms and functional understanding visit http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/bifvsbuk.htm
Quote from: xbox hacker on July 25, 2008, 07:03:41 PM
Its actually Bifilar (ie. two windings) Do a google search for Tesla Bifilar Coil........TONS OF INFO!!!!
The most funny thing is i have mentioned Bifilar coil when GotoLuc had stared his thread, "URGENT..balh blah blah"...and i got flamed..LOL. If you look at that threads first page (thats where the info was), Luc deleted most of my post!! >:(
The direction of the winding of the coil IS IMPORTANT!!!
Stan Meyer also used a bifilar coil for her work. I have made a lawton PWM...useing a bifilar coil i was able to make good amounts of HHO with only 0.8 amps!!!!!
Xbox or Cap70
I need to order some diodes
I was planning on using 1N5404
3A 400V
Would these be a good choice for this coil?
WHat size wire are you using for the bifilar winding ?
I am guessing maybe 14 gage .
gary
Coil effect on plasma spark.
Quote from: capacitor70 on July 26, 2008, 01:28:27 AM
Coil effect on plasma spark.
Interesting, this looks like the "Bucking Coil" design that JLN confirmed on his website:
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/bifvsbuk.htm
"Look at the scope pictures, this is very different from the bifilar coil configuration, this prove that the BACK EMF EXISTS REALLY!!!! So the magnetic energy exists in the bucking coil.
FLux is not canceled, but is distorted by mutual repulsion, so it does not couple to L3. This is NOT flux cancelation, or we could not have the back EMF when the fields collapse!
Clearly there are fields present in Bucking coils...."
Michael
Well I just found out thar my walbro wa-213 carburettor is ruined for good. :'(
Is there any body that want to sell me one?
I built a 5 turn primary and secondary on a ferrite core but did not get any HV or LV spark on the secondary.
So I will try and make trials with 12 turns primary and 32 turns secondary.
I also did some tests like this member:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OTCqws_hsc&feature=user
The results were pretty much the same.
Flywheel sometimes almost did 360?. that power along with flywheel inertia may do the work...
But I need to see with my eyes the result cap70 had to be a truly believer.
@rfsimoes:
I made a Bifilar coil, Cap70's new design with 15 turns for the secondary (15X 2=30) and 10 for the primary, i get NO results with NO LV on the secondary. So i put the old coil back on, and i get spark on the secondary with no LV.....
Cant get the Bifilar to work for me........... ???
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg401.imageshack.us%2Fimg401%2F9260%2Fvid4gs1.png&hash=78b2c37a29359a6998aea124ff95a5c991a4f531) (http://imageshack.us)
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg401.imageshack.us%2Fimg401%2F9260%2Fvid4gs1.0ed9e39ebf.jpg&hash=7a0a78b9ebe9f7683c643b4c0c23616f5ba1869f) (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=401&i=vid4gs1.png)
what u guys think
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg373.imageshack.us%2Fimg373%2F5918%2Fvideo1debunctxj5.png&hash=30b2bc124eab2f580c77443d5887316562142559) (http://imageshack.us)
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg373.imageshack.us%2Fimg373%2F5918%2Fvideo1debunctxj5.089d361b99.jpg&hash=0bceb7eb4d7be0f18e80c32c2052e7fe00f54351) (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=373&i=video1debunctxj5.png)
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg529.imageshack.us%2Fimg529%2F2940%2Fvideodebunct2fx6.png&hash=e513dbb4168dd35f5c528ef079c8b7c7d04b22a2) (http://imageshack.us)
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg529.imageshack.us%2Fimg529%2F2940%2Fvideodebunct2fx6.281eae52ad.jpg&hash=e92487c8009464dcd4b938644fb9b2bfc9dbfd97) (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=529&i=videodebunct2fx6.png)
so i am sorry but either he is lying really bad about how it works or these pics show he is a fraud imo
@Park34:
AMEN....lol ;D
SO yeah i know :)
it leaves u with these questions
1) obviously theinverter isnt hooked up in video 1, but engine tried to run
2) obviously the charger isnt hooked up in video 2 but the inverter is and engine runs
3) how can the coil be the magic thing if it has 4 connnections and in video 1 there are only 3 wires going to it
4) ROTFLMAO if anyone can answer these question go right ahead
and oh yeah if you can have it hooked up so different from vid 1 to vid 2 and it still works, why the hell is it so hard to duplicate some thing that you can obviously just throw together any way and it runs.
I wish it worked but im sorry they way he is STATING it right now is false beyond a shadow of doubt imo
Well no one has got a straight answer out of him for 3 years now, why would he start now. Why do you think he shot it sitting in the grass instead of on a table or on the mower itself? To hide the wires in the grass, my theory. Also there is 4 wires on his "coil", a red, black and 2 bare copper ones. All I see is 2 blacks and a white one, that's 3 wires as you say. Sorry to say but my signature says it all........
@All,
I really think we should start a new thread as XBoxHacker suggested, My Capacitor70 replication!
HV
Quote from: Park34 on July 26, 2008, 11:51:25 PM
SO yeah i know :)
it leaves u with these questions
1) obviously theinverter isnt hooked up in video 1, but engine tried to run
2) obviously the charger isnt hooked up in video 2 but the inverter is and engine runs
3) how can the coil be the magic thing if it has 4 connnections and in video 1 there are only 3 wires going to it
4) ROTFLMAO if anyone can answer these question go right ahead
and oh yeah if you can have it hooked up so different from vid 1 to vid 2 and it still works, why the hell is it so hard to duplicate some thing that you can obviously just throw together any way and it runs.
I wish it worked but im sorry they way he is STATING it right now is false beyond a shadow of doubt imo
Park
You seem to be assuming that both the videos were shot using all the same parts .
As I see it many different setups were tried .
As I see it the setup that S1r settled on was the cheapest and simplest ( to make ) but hard to understand .
gary
??? Do what works, you are not doing work as previously suggesting me how things works and helped me to make this now we have some designs and problem one by one we are solving it and going towards water car :-\, Lets experiment and put results and observations together to make our own design....
Quote from: resonanceman on July 28, 2008, 12:46:05 PM
Park
You seem to be assuming that both the videos were shot using all the same parts .
As I see it many different setups were tried .
As I see it the setup that S1r settled on was the cheapest and simplest ( to make ) but hard to understand .
gary
I agree on that behalf, but watching both videos it would be assumed they would be hooked up remotely the same, and as stated how is the coil he says is in the tin cup work if there is only three wires, this thread i assumed is for the replication of s1r circuit, well its hard to replicate when the information HE provided is incorrect
I vote for a new thread also :) :)
P.S i was just tryingt o show a few things i noticed betweent eh two, so new people trying to do his coil can see the facts
I second the motion for the new thread!!!! ;D
But Cap70 told me that he wanted to keep all the info in one place...ie. this thread. So if anyone should start a new one it should be him!! His work has moved beyond S1r replication (i think).
NOW...back on topic... I should be getting my HV caps soon. I will be testing my theory that more voltage into primary to get a better/bigger spark on the secondary. I will be testing with pressure also. I will also make a small piston and chamber to see results of piston movement.
@Cap70:
Why is it that you say common ground is a issue? What i did is take some solid wire and made a loop in it and put that over the threads and put the plug in the engine, the other end of the wire went right to the neg side of the LV cap.
As a side note, we should be able to run with extremely lean air fuel mixtures and save a ton of gas at least with the ignition circuit.
Capacitor70, have you heated the head and cylinder on your engine to 180F-200F before trying to start your engine on water? If so did it improve the results?
Hi all,
Why are you loosing time with S1r? He has been nothing but a lost of time, staling and not helping.
We are getting results here on this thread. Why flood this thread with s1r true or false coil?
He is not helping and we are getting allot of help here.
Focus people.
So anyway, has anyone tried the new cap70 proposed coil? What were the results?
Newsflash:
I got myself an old Briggs and Stratton 3hp engine to mess up. Here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEs_XF5IWQY
@XBox,
Whats the voltage of the new caps you ordered ?
HV
IMPORTANT UPDATE!!!!:
Here are some info on the pressure and firing issues.....
I hooked up a Spark Trak Tester to the secondary of my coil. With no pressure it worked ok... ie. i got a visable spark on the testers gap. But when i added a little pressure it was not sparking!! So i added more pressure.. still no sparks..... The i adjusted the gap on the primary side to make it bigger....THE SECONDARY SIDE FIRED!!!! Soo...i thought, ok make the gap smaller and see what happens. The spark on the secondary went out! I was moving the primary gap while it was being fired and the results is...Their is a DIRECT correlation between the 2 gaps for it to work under pressure!!!!!
If i put a standard plug on the secondary, and adjust the primary gap while it is arching, the secondary fires all the time no matter where the primary gap was. But for pressurized chamber tests, the gaps must "dialed-in". I have 3 coils that i made. It was the same for all 3!
coil 1: 40 turns on the secondary and 10 primary (heavy duty transformer wire form a microwave for both)
coil 2: 38 turns on the secondary and 8 primary (heavy duty transformer wire form a microwave for primary and what looks like 28ga for secondary)
coil 3: 20 turns on the secondary and 10 primary (heavy duty transformer wire form a microwave for both)
@happyvalley808:
30kV @ 500pF "Door Knob style"
Quote from: rfsimoes on July 28, 2008, 08:06:20 PM
Hi all,
Why are you loosing time with S1r? He has been nothing but a lost of time, staling and not helping.
We are getting results here on this thread. Why flood this thread with s1r true or false coil?
He is not helping and we are getting allot of help here.
Focus people.
So anyway, has anyone tried the new cap70 proposed coil? What were the results?
Newsflash:
I got myself an old Briggs and Stratton 3hp engine to mess up. Here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEs_XF5IWQY
I agree...please lets stay on topic (even if the topic does not apply anymore ;D)
Also, you might want to use a socket on a drill to start your motor....its going to kill your arm...LOL ;) I tried the Bifilar coil design it didnt work. here is a quot form him....
Quotebifillar coil not works ! ! !, It creates opposite force on the LV side and on spark plug this prevents spark
Why is it that you say common ground is a issue? anyone tried the new cap70 proposed coil? What were the results?
I hooked up a Spark Trak Tester to the secondary of my coil. With no pressure it worked ok... ie. i got a visable spark on the testers gap. But when i added a little pressure it was not sparking!! So i added more pressure.. still no sparks..... The i adjusted the gap on the primary side to make it bigger....THE SECONDARY SIDE FIRED!!!! Soo
Coil works under pressure If you adjust spark gap. I also tested this and it really works under pressure with proper gap.
As a side note, we should be able to run with extremely lean air fuel mixtures and save a ton of gas at least with the ignition circuit.
yes, you can run engine on 5 to 10% fuel and water, those who are not getting results, start with gasoline RPM of engine changes with plasma. Then put water at gasoline intake and give gasoline vapors (Be careful keep very very less quantity of gasoline back fire may ignite it or use bubbler) or HHO at air intake, this will give you time to tune the engine.
have you heated the head and cylinder on your engine to 180F-200F before trying to start your engine on water? If so did it improve the results?
No, At very first time I did this but due to dripping of water on the cylinder it cooled, But engine is working in cool state also. To confirm that engine is not running gasoline present in carburetor, preheating is not done in any further test.
So to recap, under pressure (in the engine) the gap needs to be "tuned" for this system to work and yo must use trial and error to get it right. Very good find xbox and cap70! Moving along. The leaning of the fuel mixture is a great start to running on water, we can slowly introduce water to get the engine running faster.
X-Box
Is it possible for you to post a current circuit setup, so I can go to the electrnic store today and try to replicate tonight?? it would be so much appreciated, It appears I am becoming confused as to where the current circuit stands
thanks
much
Quote from: Park34 on July 29, 2008, 12:37:00 PM
Is it possible for you to post a current circuit setup, so I can go to the electrnic store today and try to replicate tonight?? it would be so much appreciated, It appears I am becoming confused as to where the current circuit stands
I think, I should make pdf file of important information.
Here are two working circuits.
1. Using diodes.
2. Using coil under testing. (Not properly tested on engine, It works)
Coil 8 turns primary (can be transformer wire) and 24 Turns secondary, use good insulation wire for secondary (don't go for transformer wire as shown in picture) use wire for secondary shown in green color.
Hi all,
Long time out, just arrived and rebuilding circuit (with bulbs)
@ Cap70,
I'm a little confused with your circuits.
1.- Diodes
As far as I understand (I?m far from an expert) the diodes in series are each one subject to same voltage and current, so the first fail will reduce the chain strength (as well as plugs and inverter life :'().
Could it be possible that diodes in parallel can better withstand the high potential?
20000 v / 10 diodes(parallel) = more or less 2000 v each, same distribution might happen on current across diodes?.
--
2.- Coil
I`m confused, you say... primary with transformer wire (The copper colored on picture I hope) and later about secondary, (don't go for transformer wire ""as shown in picture"") use wire for secondary shown in green color.....
which one is each one?
Sorry if too stupid, I?m quite efficient confusing myself.
Concerning bifilar coil setup, I can?t find straight ferrite, do you think it
could be done with a toroidal ferrite?
Best whishes,
Quote from: Ricardoch on July 29, 2008, 02:46:54 PM
Hi all,
Long time out, just arrived and rebuilding circuit (with bulbs)
@ Cap70,
I'm a little confused with your circuits.
1.- Diodes
As far as I understand (I?m far from an expert) the diodes in series are each one subject to same voltage and current, so the first fail will reduce the chain strength (as well as plugs and inverter life :'().
Could it be possible that diodes in parallel can better withstand the high potential?
20000 v / 10 diodes(parallel) = more or less 2000 v each, same distribution might happen on current across diodes?.
--
2.- Coil
I`m confused, you say... primary with transformer wire (The copper colored on picture I hope) and later about secondary, (don't go for transformer wire ""as shown in picture"") use wire for secondary shown in green color.....
which one is each one?
Sorry if too stupid, I?m quite efficient confusing myself.
Concerning bifilar coil setup, I can?t find straight ferrite, do you think it
could be done with a toroidal ferrite?
Best whishes,
1. Diodes in series makes the reverse voltage breakdown higher (i.e. it can block 10000 volts if you use 10 in series instead of only 1000 volts if you only used one)
2. Dont use plain old magnet wire for the secondary as this winding has a crapload of voltage on it. Use high voltage wire from ebay or a surplus supplier.
Quote from: Super God on July 29, 2008, 04:03:50 PM
1. Diodes in series makes the reverse voltage breakdown higher (i.e. it can block 10000 volts if you use 10 in series instead of only 1000 volts if you only used one)
2. Dont use plain old magnet wire for the secondary as this winding has a crapload of voltage on it. Use high voltage wire from ebay or a surplus supplier.
I dont think 30kV HV wire is a good choice. The thickness of it @ 25 turns would be HUGE...LOL. Plus i think it would not induce like we need it to. You best bet is some 1000V wire...you can find that on ebay too.
This stuff should be great...
http://cgi.ebay.com/100-FT-22-AWG-1000V-SOLID-COPPER-HQ-SPKR-AMP-CABLE-WIRE_W0QQitemZ150261994606QQihZ005QQcategoryZ3284QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247
First thing to try before buying exotic wire is to go to a hardware store and just buy some wire...shouldn't cost more than $2, you should be able to get 600v rated with no problem. You want thick wire for secondary because you will have a lot of current on it, and you dont want to restrict that! The next thing to think about is the size of your ferrite...is it toroidal or linear? This will also determine the size of the wire you can make the coil form.....
You cant get 25 turns on a 1" toroidal with 8ga wire... ::)
My coils are made from wire in a microwave transformer.. it is .040" (dont know what gauge that is) I have used it for the primary and the secondary... so far i have had no issues with it. I think it should be rated for some high voltage, coming from a microwave.... AND IT WAS FREE!!!!! ;D ;D ;D
So in order to understand this better, xbox you are not using diodes correct, and that is what u used with the pressure test correct??
Quote from: Park34 on July 29, 2008, 06:13:50 PM
So in order to understand this better, xbox you are not using diodes correct, and that is what u used with the pressure test correct??
NO...i have not used a diode setup in weeks! I ONLY use cap70's coil design!! ;D ;D
Some great stuff here Peoples. I really need to brush up on HV theory to get
on board with these experiments.
Ive started making my FireStorm plugs and got many of the parts at hand.
Hope to be able to contribute something here soon.
Glenn.
@xbox
Great finding! This shows that we need to toy around a little bit more with this coils.
That may be the reason that different engines need different spark gaps for optimal performance.
In my little 25cc 2 stroke engine I couldn't open the gap higher that 0,8mm, 0,5 is the normal gap for that engine. I mean in normal conditions, working with gas. Just opening the gap to see were it could go.
I'm not at home these days so I'm painfully away from this project...
I still have a doubt, what about that bifillar coil? I retained the idea that cap70 got some good results with it!
@xbox
If its not too abusing to ask but I think that a relation between gap and pressure could be very useful.
A pressure gauge is cheap... ;D
@rfsimoes:
The gauge i used was about 65psi.
The gap on the secondary side needs to be big to get a good effect. I have had it up to .065"..and WOW!!!! But that was at normal atmosphere....need more tests and data!!!
I am trying to buy some clear PVC or plexi tube to make a visible chamber to see the normal spark and then the water water spark reaction. I want to try to get it to about 100psi...i hope it dont explode when i do the water test... ;D ...or is that what we want?? LOL
As far as i know, Cap70 told me that the Bifilar coil is a NO GO...it didnt work for him!!! As a side note, it didnt work for me either!
spark gap is having relation with voltage, at what voltage primary triggered is decided by the gap. :), more gap on primary more voltage....higher the capacitance of primary side, it is difficult to achieve higher voltage on primary side so less voltage on secondary. try to use high current ignition coil for this experiment. so that drop across all circuit can be kept minimum. also CDI ignition system gives little better results ;D, I have taken more test with coil, I don't see any disadvantage of little inductance of coil. :) Try to take test with hydrogen, when you add extra neutron to hydrogen it becomes deuterium or can be made tritium as said by the Stan Mayer, I think spark plug designed by Stan Mayer are my first water fuel injector system and plasma.
Nuclear Fusion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDAZsPkTkMM
Stan Mayer Water injector spark plug, (carefully listen to his words)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSDtCkLxQd8
Just for added info for those who may not know
I am a mechanic and here is some info on psi
Running psi is much lower than you think
If you pressure test a v8 engine say u get a total of 145 psi
Running psi would be around 65 tops, so it is not needed to have 100psi spark, not that it would hurt just letting you know that when an engine is running the psi is lower then when u do a compression test.
:)
Quote from: Park34 on July 30, 2008, 01:47:18 PM
Just for added info for those who may not know
I am a mechanic and here is some info on psi
Running psi is much lower than you think
If you pressure test a v8 engine say u get a total of 145 psi
Running psi would be around 65 tops, so it is not needed to have 100psi spark, not that it would hurt just letting you know that when an engine is running the psi is lower then when u do a compression test.
:)
@Park34
I think that was a very useful input info.
For you, what would it be a good psi measurement for a mono cilindric engine like we are testing with?
Running it manually at high rpm? maybe with a drill?
@xbox
Also, you might want to use a socket on a drill to start your motor....its going to kill your arm...LOL WinkI thought about that. I used a drill on previous engine but... you lose the FEEL of the engine starting.
It has his down side.
I still need to see more positive results on video like cap70 did. I hope that what kept me from doing it myself was the wrong engine I had for this.
If my engine tries to start like cap70 did... I think I will quit my job... just kidding ;D
But you got to agree with me a engine running on tap water its so amazing that is hard to believe.
@Capacitor70
I'm not saying with this that I don't believe you.
I believe in you because since the very first day I sow your video and contacted you have replied and been very helpful to me and all of us here.
HAIL TO Capacitor70 :D
Quote from: Park34 on July 30, 2008, 01:47:18 PM
Just for added info for those who may not know
I am a mechanic and here is some info on psi
Running psi is much lower than you think
If you pressure test a v8 engine say u get a total of 145 psi
Running psi would be around 65 tops, so it is not needed to have 100psi spark, not that it would hurt just letting you know that when an engine is running the psi is lower then when u do a compression test.
:)
@Park34
I think that was a very useful input info.
For you, what would it be a good psi measurement for a mono cilindric engine like we are testing with?
Running it manually at high rpm? maybe with a drill?
@xbox
Also, you might want to use a socket on a drill to start your motor....its going to kill your arm...LOL WinkI thought about that. I used a drill on previous engine but... you lose the FEEL of the engine starting.
It has his down side.
I still need to see more positive results on video like cap70 did. I hope that what kept me from doing it myself was the wrong engine I had for this.
If my engine tries to start like cap70 did... I think I will quit my job... just kidding ;D
But you got to agree with me a engine running on tap water its so amazing that is hard to believe.
@Capacitor70
I'm not saying with this that I don't believe you.
I believe in you because since the very first day I sow your video and contacted you have replied and been very helpful to me and all of us here.
HAIL TO Capacitor70 :D
Quote from: rfsimoes on July 30, 2008, 06:43:06 PM
@Park34
I think that was a very useful input info.
For you, what would it be a good psi measurement for a mono cilindric engine like we are testing with?
Running it manually at high rpm? maybe with a drill?
@xbox
Also, you might want to use a socket on a drill to start your motor....its going to kill your arm...LOL Wink
I thought about that. I used a drill on previous engine but... you lose the FEEL of the engine starting.
It has his down side.
I still need to see more positive results on video like cap70 did. I hope that what kept me from doing it myself was the wrong engine I had for this.
If my engine tries to start like cap70 did... I think I will quit my job... just kidding ;D
But you got to agree with me a engine running on tap water its so amazing that is hard to believe.
@Capacitor70
I'm not saying with this that I don't believe you. I believe in you because since the very first day I sow your video and contacted you have replied and been very helpful to me and all of us here.
HAIL TO Capacitor70 :D
I am not sure but most engines need atleast 80 psi to fire a run properly to begin with, so i would say anything that sparks at around 60-75 psi should be fine on running compression, may also explain why s1r says it takes a few turns over to get it to fire, typically the first stroke while doing a compression test is about runnning compression, otherwise if u take the valve out of the compression tester (looks like a tire valve) and start the enigne. (obviously a car engine) u will see running compression
Hello all,
No way for me with the lawnmower engine :
Not enough compression (I think) because of lateral valves, impossible to get +ve : I'm on -ve plasma, and not enough rotation with the hand launcher (hardly 2 to 4).
I tried with the factory carburetor, another one with choke, and like s1r9 with a reversed bottle without hole below (I remoded the carb in this configuration).
The engine never started
So now I'm looking for a 125cc 4 stroke from a motorbike, like cap70's one (with kick or electric starter).
Remoi
Quote from: Loner on July 31, 2008, 01:50:26 AM
Not to butt in, but I have been doing engine work for years, and have never heard of that concept.
(Meaning - low running pressure.) I understand that normal operating conditions is not WOT and
therefore there is intake vacuum, reducing charge density, thereby lowering the pressure, but at
WOT, the instant pressure levels can be even greater than static compression. (No gauge will
show that, due to response of the gauge and the human eye, etc.) I'm sure I don't need to go
into manifold flow design for air at RPM, etc. This is all common knowledge for designers.
The other problem, That I have had to deal with, is that at the instant of firing, there is a localised
pressure wave around the plug. THIS is what can blow the spark out, causing a poor ignition
without a misfire. (Not going into this too deep, water IS different than gas, and I'm no expert in
any way, shape or form, in either case.) If an RE or Plasma spark is desired for a Long time, in
fire terms, then the explosion could blow out the spark easily, if not enough to do most of the work
in the initial "Bang". Best example, the rotary engine. Even with gas, and special plugs, two plugs
are required due to the length of the resulting chamber, and the extinguishing of the first spark from
normal combustion. (You won't find that in the normal specs, but that's why it's there!)
Having said that, I am very unsure of the minimum pressure required at idle, with high vacuum and
a good carb. You could possibly see less than 20 PSI, if all were perfect in a low compression
setup and small quench height. (Hopefully, everyone understands basic ICE chamber design)
For this type of setup, I wonder if the original modified volga design. of perhaps the CVCC original
type from Honda would be nice to try. (Small separate chamber around plug, with separate valve...)
Of course, finding such a thing in a single cyl. engine? Yeah- right. Forget I mentioned it...
Finally, just to show how little I REALLY know, if this is at all an RE effect, the conversion process
will be going from the plug radially to the cyl. walls and piston at the speed of light. (1.5 for RE, but whatever.)
That aspect of operation could only be determined by experiment, but as a recomendation was 30 degrees
retarded (HHO flame front is FAST) I have NO idea of what the True effects, inside a Cyl, will be.
Give me a CNC, raw heads, and standard fuel like gas, nitro, alch, etc. and I'm comfy machining to the
desired effect. This stuff, well, you guys are charting such new territory that I'm just pleased to read, learn,
and offer any little experience I have.
I duno, i agree on what you are saying but i have been doing repair for years also, and i do specifically remember when being trained at GM the whole concept of a lower running compression. I will do some digging in my old books and see if i can find the actual data.
:)
thanks for posting all the help has been great so far
Ok
Gonna do a little paste, cause well i dont feel like typing this much and, they did a nice job
but its called dynamic compression test
here u go
it from iatn, which is a tech repair info swapping dealy mabob, but basically they state about half normal compression is running,
its nice to know this old brain still remebers some stuff
RUNNING COMPRESSION TEST
This is a summary of the responses to a question about a "Dynamic Compression Test" sent out via the i-ATN e-mail list and posted on Compuserve's "For Techs Only" forum. It seemed to ring a bell with the most techs as a "running compression test," so I will use that name here. Call it what you will, this test is an accurate if slightly esoteric and time-consuming test of cylinder breathing. It is in fact recommended by Detroit Diesel instead of a traditional static compression test, it is included as part of Delmar's ATTP program, and several instructors use it as part of their state emission training programs.
HOW TO PERFORM A RUNNING COMPRESSION TEST
1. Start with a normal ("static") compression test. To eliminate rings, valves, holes in pistons, that sort of things. A normal cylinder balance test is also helpful (so you know which, if any, cylinder is presenting a problem). Engine should be warm.
2. Put all spark plugs but one back in. Ground that plug wire to prevent module damage. Disconnect that injector on a port fuel system.
3. Put your compression tester into the empty hole. The test can be done without a Shrader valve, but most people recommended leaving the valve in the gauge and "burping" the gauge every 5-6 "puffs".
4. Start the engine and take a reading. Write it down
5. Now goose the throttle for a "snap acceleration" reading. Reading should rise. Write it down NOTE: Don't use the gas pedal for this snap acceleration. The idea is to manually open then close throttle as fast as possible while without speeding up the engine. This forces the engine to take a "gulp" of air.
6. Now write down your readings for at least the bad cylinder (if there is a single bad cylinder) and maybe 2-3 good ones. Make a chart like this: CYL STATIC COMPR IDLE -RUNNING COMPR - SNAP Cyl 1 150 75 125 Cyl 2 175 80 130 Cyl 3 160 75 120 Cyl 4 160 80 125
7. ANALYSIS: Running compression at idle should be 50-75 psi (about half cranking compression). Snap throttle compression should be about 80% of cranking compression.
EXAMPLE 1 - RESTRICTED INTAKE CYL STATIC COMPR IDLE -RUNNING COMPR - SNAP Cyl 1 150 75 80 If Snap reading is low (much less than 80% cranking compression), look for restricted intake air- severely carboned intake valve, worn lobe on cam, rocker problem, "shutters" mispositioned in the runners. (Toyota, Vortec etc. with variable runner length) Comparing measurements between cylinders is important.
EXAMPLE 2 - RESTRICTED EXHAUST CYL STATIC COMPR IDLE -RUNNING COMPR - SNAP Cyl 1 150 75 180 If snap measurements are significantly higher than 80% of cranking measurements, look for restricted exhaust on that cylinder-such as worn exhaust cam lobe, or collapsed lifter. Or, if they are all high, look for a clogged cat converter.
WHAT IS GOING ON?
When you do a normal compression test, you are checking cylinder sealing, not cylinder breathing. When you check engine vacuum at the manifold, you are looking at the breathing of the entire engine, by checking vacuum at a common (plenum) source. You aren't testing a specific cylinder. This test looks at the breathing of an individual cylinder.
Say the engine is running at 18 inches vacuum. Atmospheric pressure is about 30 inches, so the difference (30 inches - 18 inches = 12 inches) is what the engine is sucking in. 12 inches mercury is equivalent to about 6 psi absolute air pressure. Compressed at an 8 to 1 ratio, you should get 6 x 8 = 48 psi pressure if all the air makes it into the cylinder and then gets pushed out. So your idle reading on running compression is about 50 psi.
When you snap the throttle, the manifold vacuum drops, so the absolute air pressure going into the cylinder increases.
In fact, you can do running compression tests at various constant manifold vacuum readings (by brake-torqueing the engine momentarily), and the running compression should roughly correspond to the manifold vacuum. For example, at 10 inches vacuum, engine should be breathing in about 10 psi air pressure, so you should see a running compression reading of about 80 psi (at 8 to 1 compression ratio).
If one cylinder reads low running compression compared to the rest it means that the air didn't make it in. If one cylinder reads high, the air didn't make it out (and the next pulse of air raised the pressure).
If you look at the picture than the main idea would be this:
1- The capacitor is fully charged, the transistor between +terminal dc source, and +terminal of capacitor is not conducting.
2- The ignition coil fires and the capacitor is discharging threw the spark plug.
3- The negative side of the circuit becomes more positive along with the base of the transistor than the emitter of the transistor.
4- Therefore the transistor opens up for a moment and charges the capacitor, than close down.
5- Capacitor is charged and ready to fire again.
Again it's just theory!
But someone with more skills of electronics probably can develop at.
Of course first thing is to get those engines running with the original circuit!:)
Hoops!
Somehow i managed to leave out the front part of my previous post...
It was like that:
I waiting for my new diodes to arrive.
Capacitor 70 told me earlier that it is some ways to remove the 600 watts bulb but it had no good results.
So i come up with an idea but I don't know if it would work.....
Quote from: tiltfulll on July 31, 2008, 01:02:25 PM
Capacitor 70 told me earlier that it is some ways to remove the 600 watts bulb but it had no good results.
So i come up with an idea but I don't know if it would work.....
In my mind, I want to circulate energy, Once capacitor is charged no need to charge it again ??? like Tesla switch
It is possible to get multiple sparks once capacitor is charged. but I am working on how to circulate properly ::) Using coil circuit and diodes combination. Take two glasses of water and one empty, to understand concept.
UNDERSTAND CONCEPT NOT DESIGN
DESIGNING IS PAYING ATTENTION TO DETAILS
@Cap70,
You said with the orginal diode circuit, the solder was melting during trials.......Do you think an increased number of diodes
lets say -24- 6A10 in series . Would the increased number of diodes reduce the waste heat ?
"HAIL CAPACITOR70"
Mahalo Nui Loa
HV
Oh I see where you going! ;D
You trying to use a Bedini motor to keep the capacitor charged!
Right?
Sounds interesting!
Hi all
Hail Cap70 ;D
I was rebuilding Capacitor coil circuit (after burning some inverters days ago) and testing each step before each other and found something, at least curious. (sorry no camera, but easy to test yourself)
I build HV Capacitor part and started playing some sparks with a 555 timer circuit posted some days ago, nothing spectatular but funny to play with sparks at different pulse speeds
Then I attached the toroidal coil and HV condensers, only the HV side of toroidal coil (The insulated wire) and sent a few pulses to see if coil and condensers keep the sparks going on, and the spaks went MUCH BRIGHTER :o than the usual direct plug conection to the car HV coil. nice!!!
Tried some water and seems a little more brighter sparks, althoug if too much water added and contact went closed with a water drop, there are no sparks at all, (first impression was I have already fused something again).
Cleaned the plug, repeated test, bright sparks again and tested LV side of toroidal coil, BE CAUTIOUS very High Volts on this side either, and what is more interesting...
Closing the LV toroid coil (magnet wire side) results in MUCH BRIGHTER sparks and more water reaction.
I have no opportunity to go further today, unforunately I can spent only short time from time to time to the project, but maybe there is a way to bypass or improve the LV requirement??
As I have not too many tools nor meters here, just a couple cheap MM, for some time I can only advance on the try-error-melt-something-get-some-spares-try-again-and-put-some-attention-next-time "scientific" metodology ;D
But maybe some of you can test it a little further and check some toroid coil configs to see if it's possible to improve spark without LV and the associated problems.
maybe it`s not woth the time, but I have the feeling that playing with coil and HV capacitors could provide interesting effects, I`ll try more test as soon as I can.
I used the initial toroid 32 - 12 ratio, hope this helps.
A last note, for me, making a cheap 555 pulse timer is a must, you can leave the whole thing sparking on it's own and play different test on the fly, I will not have noticed the coil effect on a charge - spark by hand basis.
I`ll try to attach the Cap70 circuit as tested.
Best to all.
R
Cap, how about this circuit?
You said with the orginal diode circuit, the solder was melting during trials.......Do you think an increased number of diodes
lets say -24- 6A10 in series . Would the increased number of diodes reduce the waste heat ?
You trying to use a Bedini motor to keep the capacitor charged!
Right?
No bedini motor.
Its like Tesla switch. (for information : somewhere I read that using tesla switch 4 batteries some one is running his car without charging
batteries) http://www.ctglabs.com/tesla1.htm
Increasing diode dosen't make any difference because plasma resistance is zero so no power loss in the plasma spark plug, all energy goes into the diodes and wires. That's why the charge of capacitor can be circulated without problem. take two capacitors, charge one capacitor, and charge second capacitor from charge of fist capacitor through spark plug acting as switch.
@adamhy
Cap, how about this circuit?
Similar to diode circuit.
@tiltfulll
Reply #609
During capacitor discharge transistor becomes on agin and acts as wire, no difference same as normal circuit. (for trials use SCR for simplicity)
@Cap70,
Thanks for your willingness to help all that have asked for your guidance..!!!!!
Hi,
I think this post from S1R on his yahoogroup Waterfuel1978 explains very well how works his coils setup.
quote
Message #6934 Sun Jul 20, 2008 3:18 am by "s1r9a9m9"
Re: Someone, please please please answer this question for me about S1R's coils....
Ok, I'll try again and start from the begaining.
The relays on the Elcamino have two coils in them, I have no idea of how the relays were working to make the engine run, well maybe some idea or else I would not have used them. The coil that is now being talked about was from the videos I posted on youtube.
The people that have been helping me on this project had figured out that the 2 coils in the relay was the factor in the engine running. so they tryed to replacate the actions of the relay coils and came across the single coil with three windings in it. the new coil is wound so that one winding is slowing down the HV current and the long winding is feeding the HV current more amps to boost the spark to the plug.
The new coil is between the distrubitor cap and the sprak plug as the placement on the plug wire it self would be.
The new coil system dose not need the inverter to boost the power on the new coil. A hot 12 volt power draw through the coil will keep it charged at all times. I am working on a means to find a common hot wire that will be usful on all vehicles to use for this power through the coil.
Dose this answer the question you had.
I was not sure how to answer it any other way.
S1R.
end of quote
So the inverter is not used on the videos, and it's just 12V supplied to coils
MDG
Quote from: stephenafreter on August 01, 2008, 05:24:58 AM
Hi,
I think this post from S1R on his yahoogroup Waterfuel1978 explains very well how works his coils setup.
quote
Message #6934 Sun Jul 20, 2008 3:18 am by "s1r9a9m9"
Re: Someone, please please please answer this question for me about S1R's coils....
Ok, I'll try again and start from the begaining.
The relays on the Elcamino have two coils in them, I have no idea of how the relays were working to make the engine run, well maybe some idea or else I would not have used them. The coil that is now being talked about was from the videos I posted on youtube.
The people that have been helping me on this project had figured out that the 2 coils in the relay was the factor in the engine running. so they tryed to replacate the actions of the relay coils and came across the single coil with three windings in it. the new coil is wound so that one winding is slowing down the HV current and the long winding is feeding the HV current more amps to boost the spark to the plug.
The new coil is between the distrubitor cap and the sprak plug as the placement on the plug wire it self would be.
The new coil system dose not need the inverter to boost the power on the new coil. A hot 12 volt power draw through the coil will keep it charged at all times. I am working on a means to find a common hot wire that will be usful on all vehicles to use for this power through the coil.
Dose this answer the question you had.
I was not sure how to answer it any other way.
S1R.
end of quote
So the inverter is not used on the videos, and it's just 12V supplied to coils
MDG
Tell me how its hooked up with only three wires, You can refer to my pictures on the previous page. He isnt telling the truth about anything imo. It does not work the way he states, and as usual most of his comments are nonesense. For example the " i am working with others to try to find the best wrie to use for the constant power" Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm that should take 3 months or should i say 3 years now shouldnt it.
here let me help you s1r
fuel pump relay circuit
hmmm maybe the ignition circuit side
key on circuit
whatever this guy is smoking he must be running out of, cause he aint helpful or inspiring anymore
Hi guys
couple questions i am hoping x box or cap can answer
In capacitors video of the engine running on "water" what makes the liht flash
I know the answer is staring at me, but i anticipate the light being before the bridge for it to be on constantly
@Xbox have u hade any luck iwth 110v, i have everything for that but no bridge for 220v
@cap70 how is your experimenting going?? i cant wait to se one more video fo the engine firing
@everyone, hows the prgress goin
@loner i was hoping for some sort of reply on the fact you never heard of running compression, us mechanics gotta stay together :) :)
Here is a vid of the secondary spark under pressure....
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=PtGd3sm5BZY
Its about 50-55psi on the gauge. Its hard to see, but the spark on the secondary gets better as i tune it in.
This was just a demo of the fact that the spark DOES spark under pressure. I am making a pressure chamber to test plasma under pressure... it will be done soon. But i could only get orange translucent plexi glass ...LOL :D
@Park34:
I use 110VAC ....but i have it going through a voltage doubler... so the DC out put is about 290VDC
Use a 50amp 400v bridge and you will get about 240VDC from your 220VAC main line.
So i just spoke with an electrotec guy, hoping to get parts needed but basically he aint cool with the use, he says its far to dangerous, and doesnt see how it can be applied to the car engine. Here were some of his comments, and since i havent been able to get everythign needed to replicate maybe x box can help me or cap 70
he said when power is rectified you only get the top of the wave thus you end up with mroe voltage than u started with
so the 230v rectified turn into 400 to 500 volts, which he said the 330uf 400v capaictor makes sense there
he was confused on wether the first spark plug fires constantly, which he figures would burn out the plug rather fast
he was impressed with the torroidial concept and thought that was a great idea.
So in speaking with him i am starting to wonder if we really need the 400 volts, so in turn i need some clarification of what we are trying to do
this was my theory and eprhaps i am wrong
1) have the 30k-40k spark that is normally there
2) piggy back the HV spark with a LV amp
So i am wondering if perhaps there is another way to get that amperage rather than needing 400v
how is your experimenting going?? i cant wait to see one more video for the engine firing
I don't have electricity at day time, I can't take test on engine. rarely taking test with table setup with inverter.My inverter is rated at 600VA no surge capacity it trips immediately during trials on engine. My friend never comes at night time to kick the engine. I am going back to the work to get more money so that proper setup can be made. or purchase old car for experiments
so the 230v rectified turn into 400 to 500 volts, which he said the 330uf 400v capaictor makes sense there
No 400 to 500V,
After rectification you get root 2 times voltage.
Vout=1.4142 X Vin
So i am wondering if perhaps there is another way to get that amperage rather than needing 400v
Yes, you need at least 50voltas to get the plasma spark,
for those who are facing problem of 110V, use two capacitor 470uF in parallel to get same energy level. try with gasoline vapors or hydrogen for quick results, put water at gasoline intake and vapors at air intake, take care of back fire
Quote from: Park34 on August 01, 2008, 12:44:37 PM
he said when power is rectified you only get the top of the wave thus you end up with mroe voltage than u started with
so the 230v rectified turn into 400 to 500 volts, which he said the 330uf 400v capaictor makes sense there
Hmmmmm... thats funny because when i hook up a bridge to 110VAC...it outputs 110VDC.
Ok so now i am utterly confused
Cap70 just said you get 2 times voltage, so 230 x 2 = 460 volts, which is damn close to 400-500
X box says he gets 110 dc from 110ac so man am i confused now
:(
Quote from: Park34 on August 01, 2008, 01:58:36 PM
Ok so now i am utterly confused
Cap70 just said you get 2 times voltage, so 230 x 2 = 460 volts, which is damn close to 400-500
X box says he gets 110 dc from 110ac so man am i confused now
:(
hi!
i was measuring that :-)
my voltmeter says:
@230 Volt AC voltage
about 208 Volt DC voltage without a capacitor
about 230 Volt DC voltage with a capacitor
Quote from: multiuser on August 01, 2008, 02:06:10 PM
hi!
i was measuring that :-)
my voltmeter says:
@230 Volt AC voltage
about 208 Volt DC voltage without a capacitor
about 230 Volt DC voltage with a capacitor
hmmm so whats the answer lol
Quote from: Park34 on August 01, 2008, 02:10:55 PM
hmmm so whats the answer lol
TRY IT YOURSELF....lol ;D
you need one bridge rectifier....or 4 single diodes(to make you own rectifier)
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kpsec.freeuk.com%2Fanimated%2Fbrect.gif&hash=e603b1b936b9b394c1460924f7ddf359862f145e)
Try it and post your results.......Also Cap70 said "Vout=1.4142 X Vin" ...Voltage Out= 1.4142 times Voltage In
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kpsec.freeuk.com%2Fimages%2Fsmoothng.gif&hash=1ee8827242ea0175d6d258ed4190178a987b4152)
Note that smoothing significantly increases the average DC voltage to almost the peak value (1.4 ? RMS value). For example 6V RMS AC is rectified to full wave DC of about 4.6V RMS (1.4V is lost in the bridge rectifier), with smoothing this increases to almost the peak value giving 1.4 ? 4.6 = 6.4V smooth DC.
Below is a VOLTAGE DOUBLER (thats what i use)...
I getting in 242 vac and out 213 vdc.
Noe that is single phase 240 input!
If you have double phase ac input than once is rectified it's probably doubles at.
I think!
I have these things on hand
1 Full-Wave Bridge Rectifier 25 amps 50 volts, (i can get more of these)
4 3 amp 400PIV rectifier diodes (i dont know what PIV means)
i have a bunch of old misc stuff but cant find the proper capacitors
can anyone help me use any of this to build any part of the machine??
wowsa this is cool also
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmsNTbGZ0zE
quite the odd sparkplug also
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_MJhnT-ujw&feature=related
can this help us out at all??
or can anyone tell how it works
thanks guys
and p.s i am attempting a cap70 replication tonight into the weekend, got an old tv gonna gut and see what i can find
i said square root of 2.
when you rectify AC 230V and put capacitor output is VDC = 230 X 1.40 = 322 V DC
230V AC = 322 V DC
110V AC = 154 V DC
What makes the diodes go bad?
Is the heat? Any cooling would help?
Or they just don't like the 30000-40000 v?
Also I got the transistor for the ignition coil.
So I hoked at up.
The negative coming from the coil connected to the collector than from the emitter goes to ground.
And the base suppose receive a signal to make the two disconnect and by doing that collapse the magnetic field and induce the hv.
Right?
But soon as i connected the collector and the emitter the transistor get so hot that it burned my finger!
What is up with that?
Here is another vid....i know, i know....not another vid..... :D
Plasma firing under pressure! Its about 35-40 psi. Watch the gauge move! qiman13 made a vid on youtube that showed an effect of the expansion and re compression, during and after the plasma spark. He stated that the HHO is ignited it creates pressure and when the HHO reforms to water it creates a vacuum....
This can be seen in my video, the gauge goes up and right back down.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=LHJFv29fbCQ
This one is just for fun...it looks like a jet engine...LOL
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=nwooQ-5pzaE
Go through Stan Mayer's water fuel injector, circuit diagram is not shown but in description many similar things can be found like we are doing also You can find design of spark plug.
water car shown by japan uses water mist and hydrogen combination with plasma spark plug.
Stan_Meyer_Full_Data.pdf page no 103 (The birth of new technology) total pages: 234
@Xbox
Thanks for testing and sharing results
Today I have taken little trials on engine, but engine is not firing on gasoline and plasma spark with diode circuit, I think I made mistake during assembly of engine.
Any time when you give gasoline vapors or hydrogen put very less quantity of gasoline and fill the bottle with water and put gasoline on it, gasoline stays at top of water. use bubller
Hi all,
Today I burned my hand pretty badly.
I was handling a bottle that had gasoline in it and it ended up igniting in my and.
You can see the explanation here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjOc6IGGs3E
So please be careful wile handling and storing gasoline. Gas fumes are VERY flamable, they explode like butane gas. I just realised that. For me gasoline smell was nothing more than that, a bad smell.
I thought gasoline mist explodes but it seems that fumes explode even more easily and hotter.
My hand hurts very bad. :'(
@rfsimoes:
OUCH!!!!
After 2 hours of pain because of my hand I regain courage to restart my tests with my B&S 4 stroke engine.
No success at all on water.
Puled the cord until exhaustion. Increased the spark gap, reduced the spark gap, replaced the spark plug and nothing.
Today I used 2 300W bulbs in parallel the diode array and used the 240VAC mains power.
Very laud sparks outside, I had to cover my hears.
So I did the following test:
With spark plug out, I rotated the engine until a few degrees past the TDC. Both valves closed of course!
Then I poured some water throughout plug hole directly into the cylinder.
Screw in the spark plug and pulsed the HV coil to spark
I'm disappointed to notice that not even a tiny little movement was noticed on fly well.
Not enough trust power. I do not dare to increase the 470uF capacitor.
@capacitor70
On your successful engine test did you delayed the timing?
Did you ever made this same test? If so what were the results?
This is not promising at all, is it my water no good?
How do we do a simple water PH test?
@rfsimoes,
You can get thin pieces of paper, from pool supply stores. They come in a bottle that looks like a vitamin jar, each strip is a single use PH test... Hope that helps.....
Mahalo Nui Loa
HV
Quote from: rfsimoes on August 02, 2008, 06:08:56 PM
After 2 hours of pain because of my hand I regain courage to restart my tests with my B&S 4 stroke engine.
No success at all on water.
Puled the cord until exhaustion. Increased the spark gap, reduced the spark gap, replaced the spark plug and nothing.
Today I used 2 300W bulbs in parallel the diode array and used the 240VAC mains power.
Very laud sparks outside, I had to cover my hears.
So I did the following test:
With spark plug out, I rotated the engine until a few degrees past the TDC. Both valves closed of course!
Then I poured some water throughout plug hole directly into the cylinder.
Screw in the spark plug and pulsed the HV coil to spark
I'm disappointed to notice that not even a tiny little movement was noticed on fly well.
Not enough trust power. I do not dare to increase the 470uF capacitor.
@capacitor70
On your successful engine test did you delayed the timing?
Did you ever made this same test? If so what were the results?
This is not promising at all, is it my water no good?
How do we do a simple water PH test?
Hmmmm would it run on gasoline a loan?
Quote from: capacitor70 on August 02, 2008, 11:16:26 AM
Go through Stan Mayer's water fuel injector, circuit diagram is not shown but in description many similar things can be found like we are doing also You can find design of spark plug.
water car shown by japan uses water mist and hydrogen combination with plasma spark plug.
Stan_Meyer_Full_Data.pdf page no 103 (The birth of new technology) total pages: 234
@Xbox
Thanks for testing and sharing results
your welcome.. ;D
Anyway i was looking at the Meyer info you suggested, and i had a thought. How about we take pressurized water and air and shoot both past the plasma event? I think it could look like this...
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmyelectricengine.com%2Fprojects%2Fmpdthruster%2Fdischarge.jpg&hash=f6596933ccdf8cb4f482a90c9132e589eed0f093)
From: www.myelectricengine.com
Now this idea is just plain water and plain air....just a idea.
Here is a another idea i have...take a look and let me know your thoughts :D
We dont even need the HV with this idea... We are currently using the HV to create the low resistance zone for the DC to arc.
@Xbox,
How would the ionized air be produced ? ..... Like Stan Meyer did? ......... I know that ultrasonic water foggers ionize the air.... They are also used in hydroponics to fog liquid chemical / water mixtures........
HV
Quote from: happyvalley808 on August 02, 2008, 08:49:19 PM
@Xbox,
How would the ionized air be produced ? ..... Like Stan Meyer did? ......... I know that ultrasonic water foggers ionize the air.... They are also used in hydroponics to fog liquid chemical / water mixtures........
HV
It was just a thought i had...thast all.................i am not even 100% sure that ionized air can make the DC arc....i am just talking out my ass ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
So someone tell me if the ion air CAN or CAN NOT make the DC arc?
BUT, i guess we could use a system like Meyer did.."laser air ionization"
I know 3M makes a ion air blow gun machine....someone find the schematic for that...LOLÂ ;D
Check this out...
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/200359099/Ionizer_Air_Gun.html
@Xbox,
Really nice pressure test you made in your video!!! Have you tried pluging the end of your plastic test cylinder, mist a little water and then plug end with a wine cork or something, see if there is sufficient pressure to blow the cork out, just a thought.....What size caps are you using, it looked like you had two in paralell....Thanks for sharing your work!!!!!
Mahalo Nui Loa
HV
@HV:
Thank you... the caps are 220uF in parallel, so it add up to 440uF total. I have tried poping off objects from the top of it, just ones resting on it...not like a cork pushed inside.... i even put my hand in front of it...lol (probably not the best idea) ::)
@Xbox,
What is the ion air gun used for i couldn't figure it out? Are you still waiting on your doorknob caps, thats going to be fun to see what those will do, 30KV OUCH!!!! Have you worked with HV like this much before???
Thanks ,
HV
@Xbox,
Thought you might find this interesting. I was checking S1R's Youtube profile, he has listed your plasma plug underwater video as one of his favorites..........?
HV
Quote from: xbox hacker on August 02, 2008, 08:34:49 PM
your welcome.. ;D
Anyway i was looking at the Meyer info you suggested, and i had a thought. How about we take pressurized water and air and shoot both past the plasma event? I think it could look like this...
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmyelectricengine.com%2Fprojects%2Fmpdthruster%2Fdischarge.jpg&hash=f6596933ccdf8cb4f482a90c9132e589eed0f093)
From: www.myelectricengine.com
Now this idea is just plain water and plain air....just a idea.
Here is a another idea i have...take a look and let me know your thoughts :D
We dont even need the HV with this idea... We are currently using the HV to create the low resistance zone for the DC to arc.
Xbox
Now you are starting to come around to what I have been planning .
I have thought for quite a while that the most practical way to go is some kind of injector plug ......... I know it is harder to build than what people have been playing with so far ...............but it shows alot more promise .
The system can be very flexible .......for example . ...... there has been some talk lately of engines overheating if they are ran to lean .
The injector plug could get past that by simply injecting more water than can be vaporised by the plasma ...... the extra water would be flashed into steam ..... in effect slowing down the reaction ..........more steam would also mean more time before the implosion phase .
I had planned on having a narrow opening before the final burn part of my plug .......there would be smaller electrodes just before the narrow section ........ the ides would be to " spray" the water / air mixture into the final chamber .
The excess water droplets that arn't hit by the arc would serve to slow the reaction and cool the electrodes .
gary
Quote from: capacitor70 on July 31, 2008, 01:10:55 PM
In my mind, I want to circulate energy, Once capacitor is charged no need to charge it again ??? like Tesla switch
It is possible to get multiple sparks once capacitor is charged. but I am working on how to circulate properly ::) Using coil circuit and diodes combination.
Take two glasses of water and one empty, to understand concept.
UNDERSTAND CONCEPT NOT DESIGN
DESIGNING IS PAYING ATTENTION TO DETAILS
Hi Capacitor70,
I am following up your this thread and gone through the complete thread in detail. After this i have decided to start the work on this subject along with one electronic expert (as i have limited knowledge on electronic).
To start my trails i did the following;
1. I have taken a flyback transformer of Black and White television. This transformer produces a very good saw tooth spikes (Similar to the spikes described in Stanley Meyer patent document). The voltage at this transformer is around 20 KV with a frequency of 15.7 Khz. I was thinking that this transformer will give me good spark at the spark plug. But unfortunately the spark at the spark plug was pretty weak.
2. The i have taken the flyback transformer of color television, which produces much larger voltage between 30 to 150 Khz. Again the result was same.
3. Subsequently i have decided to take a trail on your circuit but could not understand the following:
a. The positioning of two spark plug. Does it mean that we have to put one more spark plug from where the current will jump and go to the coil.
b. What kind of voltage (AC OR DC) is being produced from the coil used in your circuit. (please pordon me if i am asking to much basic question).
c. When i have opened my ignition coil i have seen only two wires. One was connected to the wire coming out from the Capacitor and other end was going to spark plug. But in your circuit you have shown the three connection, what are those?
I look forward for your usual support, however the answers from other experts are also welcome.
Regards
Praveen
Been bouncing between forums and assembling ideas in my head. ::)
So I'll throw this one out there to "cherry pick" from my favorite concepts
so far.... you never know... until you find out. :)
Ozicell Ball Spark Plug
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/2386-ball-spark-plug.html
June 2, 2008 Robert Krupa interview / discusses newest ball-to-ball plug patent
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/kywaterfuelmuseum/2008/06/02/Robert-Krupa
Hi... I just want every one to see my experiments with gas on you tube www.youtube.com/tsimonin
Quote from: goldenequity on August 03, 2008, 03:46:25 AM
Been bouncing between forums and assembling ideas in my head. ::)
So I'll throw this one out there to "cherry pick" from my favorite concepts
so far.... you never know... until you find out. :)
Ozicell Ball Spark Plug
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/2386-ball-spark-plug.html
June 2, 2008 Robert Krupa interview / discusses newest ball-to-ball plug patent
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/kywaterfuelmuseum/2008/06/02/Robert-Krupa
From what i have seen in my plug tests, i think you 2 ball design on top of each other will shoot at 90 degrees....so place than parallel with each other and parallel the tube, and i think your water mist needs to be sparyed at the gap for max effect...in your image its past he gap, i think you will loses the full effect.
LIKE THIS:
| |
| () () |
| | | |
| | | |@HV:
I think the ion gun is used for antistatic blow gun...not 100%sure. I fix arcade monitors 30kV all day long...lol And i have been bitten! I did get the doorknow caps....they work fine, but no real noticeable improvement, but i will be doing more tests, i have some other caps comming.....i will test for everyone, they are SUPER CHEAP, if they work i will let everyone know...this way we can be all on the same page!
@resonanceman:
So what do you think about my idea for using Ion Gas to arc the DC? do you think it will work.... this would eleaviate the problem of timing the HV/LV with the sparking of the water......
Quote from: xbox hacker on August 03, 2008, 09:01:41 AM
@resonanceman:
So what do you think about my idea for using Ion Gas to arc the DC? do you think it will work.... this would eleaviate the problem of timing the HV/LV with the sparking of the water......
Xbox
SHort answer
I think it will work ...........I am sure that if it doesn't work directlly it can be made to work .
Longer answer
M\y design has the HV from the ignition coil being used to power a pump .
The ignition coil still controls the timing I simply use it to create a pulse at the right time
My plan has always been to trigger the last plasma cycle using the water pumped by previous pulses .
I think that the bubbles created by the ignition coil and LV in my pump is probably HHO .
The HHO should be well ionised
After being in close proximity to quite a few pulses the remaining water should be well ionised .
I think that just water spray in the channel should lower the resistance enough to allow an arc to form .
With ionised water it should be even easier .
If the water doesn't trigger the arc by itself ......... we might need to drive the final circuit with a waveform with a HF spike that would provide a small quick arc ......just enough to ignite HHO ...... Assuming the bubbles are HHO once a few of those are hit by a small arc you will have enough plasma to start the main arc .
If the bubbles are not HHO .......then we would need to go back ......and make the electrodes in the pump larger and leave a bias voltage on them between pulses ........to generate HHO .
gary
Plasma water arc, The flame above the water is hydrogen.....
During plasma test, take video and see it frame by frame many things we miss there..
Quote from: capacitor70 on August 03, 2008, 11:40:21 AM
Plasma water arc, The flame above the water is hydrogen.....
During plasma test, take video and see it frame by frame many things we miss there..
My camera SUX!!!!! I need one that is about 120 FPS :-\
@Xbox
If possible take test like this.
I have taken surface area test no effect on plasma. two electrodes with 6mm diameter surface for plasma arc.
CPVC pipe with bolts as electrodes ;D ;D
You can feel the air more from over a foot away from the opening.......
Ionized air is air which is passed through high voltage plates, voltage multiplier circuit is used for this application, ionization of air takes very very less electrical power.
http://users.otenet.gr/~athsam/air_ionizer.htm
@Xbox
What is different in second picture why flame comes out from it ?
Are you putting air at one end ?
And in your pressure test you have not told how much pressure it shows ?
What happen if we put water on the electrodes ?
What happen if we use multiple electrodes with different gap ?
Give steam at one end of pipe and see the difference ?
Do not put your hand in front of pipe plasma makes hole in your skin, I have seen it with TV flyback transformer...
If you increase the gap you get more stronger arc at same energy level.
@Cap70:
What is different in second picture why flame comes out from it ?
I used a dSLR...not a video camera, so the flames are hard to catch...those images are the only 2 i could get form 53 of the ones i took...LOL
Are you putting air at one end ?
NO AIR...just the air thats is the tube at the time of firing....
And in your pressure test you have not told how much pressure it shows ?
It does not say how much on the gauge....its just a guess, i will make a test with a compressor to make a guide to see how much the video shows...
What happen if we put water on the electrodes ?
The images are taken with water on them...with out water its just a bright blue light...i didnt really see a flame.
What happen if we use multiple electrodes with different gap ?
The bigger the gap...the bigger the effect....I didnt try multiple electrodes....
Give steam at one end of pipe and see the difference ?
Steam didnt really do anything...i had tried that first
Do not put your hand in front of pipe plasma makes hole in your skin, I have seen it with TV flyback transformer...
i kept it away about 3/4"..it is safe, i have done it before
If possible take test like this.
It didnt work verywell...... But oddly enough, iwas able to "eject" the water form the tube with just DC...it seemd to make it "jump out"
GAUGE DATA FROM VID:
The needle in the center of the yellow area, as in the vid is about 40 psi....the needle high point is about 50psi when the event happens..
I can not change the gauge with out destroying the tester...i already tried.......
Cap70 gave me a good idea, below is the image. With all my tests on spark plugs i have noticed that the electrode will "burn down".....so with the image below it should last LONGER! In tests it seems to arc in the same spot, when that area becomes burnt down, it should select a new area of the 360 degree electrode to arc form.....making the life is the device longer!
As always...just a thought... ;D
I fell so idiot :-[
Today I managed to burn my second HV coil and the original coil from the B&S engine.
High voltage coils are to be normally disconnected and then pulsed connected, not the other way around.
I will add a small 12v bulb in parallel with HV coil has a warning light.
Last 2 HV coils were free now I have to buy the next one :'(
Somewhere in the past I stumbled on this:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/WaterFuel1978/files/ATHAL/
I did not see any feedback tests on this plug so as I see that you guys are interested in this field I thought this might come in handy.
@Xbox,
I've found a champion spark plug made for boats. ( L76V)... It is resistor-less, and it doesn't have a normal "J"
cathode.....It arcs in a 360 radius.. This may help if the plugs cathode is getting fried ????
Has anyone used one of these plugs???? ......I got mine from Wal-mart for $2.00 on clearance......
Let me know what you think....................
Mahalo Nui Loa
HV
@Xbox,
Here is a sand blasting attachment designed for a pressure washer, just to ad on to your thoughts of using this part....
being that it's designed to run water thru it... This may be helpful????
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_37202_37202
Aloha,
HV
Quote from: happyvalley808 on August 03, 2008, 05:59:43 PM
@Xbox,
I've found a champion spark plug made for boats. ( L76V)... It is resistor-less, and it doesn't have a normal "J"
cathode.....It arcs in a 360 radius.. This may help if the plugs cathode is getting fried ????
Has anyone used one of these plugs???? ......I got mine from Wal-mart for $2.00 on clearance......
Let me know what you think....................
Mahalo Nui Loa
HV
I mentioned these plugs a few weeks ago. They were mostly used in Mercury outboards and Mercruiser inboard engines. At Mercury school they demonstrated these plugs with the Merc Thunderbolt ignition firing in a bucket of OIL.
@Xbox I have 2 boxes of these plugs that I will more than likley never use. I thought you said you were in Florida. I am in West Palm, if you want them I will send you a box. I am interested to see how these work.
Quote from: happyvalley808 on August 03, 2008, 07:01:25 PM
@Xbox,
Here is a sand blasting attachment designed for a pressure washer, just to ad on to your thoughts of using this part....
being that it's designed to run water thru it... This may be helpful????
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_37202_37202
Aloha,
HV
Making a video soon..stay tuned... ;D
(yes, i know...i am video happy....)
@All,
I've been toying around with this idea in my mind for a few weeks....let me know what you think ....... Paul Pantons "GEET" fuel reformer, it is a plasma reaction with a normal spark...many have run this system using 80% water 20% gas....
what if we added a plasma plug plus HHO into the air intake to increase the flame speed???? With this setup it may be easier to achieve 100% water as fuel??????
@Cap70
Didn"t you say you have used the GEET system...Have you tried it with a plasma spark????????
Thanks to all ,
HV
OK...sand blast nozzle video is up.....
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=wIV_hX4SxnQ
This thing is SOOOOO LOUD!!!!!
The hissing in the vid when i spray water...i am unsure if it was because it was hot (i didnt check) or it was electrolysis.... ???
@Xbox,
Love your video's, keep um coming.......Got any potatoes?? Stick a piece in, see what kind of force you get out......
Plasma potatoe gun....LOL
Thanks
HV
Hi guys
This might be useful - a working design basically......now maybe just re-jig to work as an injection system.
http://science.howstuffworks.com/plasma-cutter4.htm
Cheers,
Steve.
Quote from: Loner on August 02, 2008, 02:59:38 AM
@park34
Thanks for the info, and sorry I took so long to reply.
I am thinking in the wrong terms, as far as this goes. Most of the work I have done, other than basic
repairs for myself and a couple dealer lots, is all been towards MAX HP. All of the work and measurements
I have taken were (Excluding static compression) during Actual FULL LOAD tests. I now realise that won't
apply here, and you'll never see these types of values under partial load, even snapping the throttle, though
that nice info sheet you provided pointed to some of these effects.
I always think along those lines, even though I usually drive like grandma, except at the lanes or the track.
I was always amazed at how much of an increase in compression different intake manifolds and porting
made, at decent RPM's and WOT. In the case of this situation, as in getting it to run, that type of info is
completely useless, and I should have just shut up. You are absolutely correct in the values you gave, for
the way that all of this will operate. Now once this is all working, and you want to bring your water powered
car down to the strip, I'll be sure to chime back in and try and help. Till then, I think I'm just a distraction.
Of course, I will offer NO help on the electronics. People here have a better grasp on what they are doing
and I'm not ready to change projects, and play catch-up, until I get this "TPU" thing working. (Maybe never?)
I really chimed in from some "Spark Blowout" problems I encountered when working on some heavily
modified engines, and the weird patterns that showed up. They looked similar, but now I don't think
they are related. (By the way, have you ever had the chance to use the solid state pressure gauges
for dynamic compression tests. They always amazed me. To see all 8 Cyls at one time charted on
a PC is just a neat thing. Wish I could afford to own one.)
Good luck to all
Art.
Art
Dont go buddy, and info is good info, I totally understand where you are coming from. I have been down the track a time or two also. You speaking up helps allot fo people. What if what I was stating was wrong adn you had better data. You arent confusing in the least, YOu are a very informative person and and input you give would be good.
About the 8 cylinder readout, no I have also only seen it once but wowsa what a toy. I am starting to regret putting 6k into a genesis, adn wish i would have just went laptop based ofr my diagnostics etc.
thanks again Art
Xbox, great vid.
Did you notice the difference in flame characteristics after the electrolysis event? If not, look again. Flame is blue and way above the flame it looks like super heated steam or hot air. How did you insulate the cathode?
I am currently not using Cap coil system but might change over. Please repeat your experiment using different electrolytes. You are still 1 week ahead of me. :P but we are def. on the same mission.
Rgds.
D
you may find ome ideas here:
http://waterfuel.100free.com/plasmatron.html
the MIT plasmatron is very interresting. We could use this architecture, but they have a rotating electrode to reduce wear and prolonge the lifespan of the electrodes. Of course it's not easy to manufacture in a small workshop, unless we use a kind of swirling of the injected water that would give the power to rotate the external electrode, like on a garden water sprinkler ...
a water plasma gun !!!! waoooooow ! it opens a very large new horizon in free energy !!!!
guys you are fantastic !!!! and thanks to overunity.com to give us this internatioal multimedia play ground !!!
MDG
Quote from: plasmastudent77 on August 03, 2008, 10:05:48 PM
Hi guys
This might be useful - a working design basically......now maybe just re-jig to work as an injection system.
http://science.howstuffworks.com/plasma-cutter4.htm
Cheers,
Steve.
Thanks for the link Steve
I didn't know that the plasma used in plasma cutters is around 30,000 degrees F
I think that studying the materials used in plasma cutters might be helpful . If it will work at 30,000 degrees it should hold up to adding enough heat to run an engine .
This is a good time to explain the major difference in what I think would work and how the plasma cutter works .
Where the plasma cutter developes maximum heat to cut the metal quicker I think we need minimum heat .......at least as far as plasma goes .
The plasma cutter uses a steady stream of plasma
I think we need to use what could be called "bubbles" of plasma .
I think that we need use low enough power to get a balance between plasma bubbles and water droplets in the spray going into the cylinder
controling the % of water droplets in the output spray will allow us to tune the system to the right heat range .
The ideal would be for the plasma bubbles to react with the water droplets and and air in the cylinder flashing all the water droplets into steam .but not having enough energy remaining to overheat any engine parts. .
Judging from the latest video from Xbox the range of power needed may be narrow .
I don't know the correct term .......I am going to call it charge density
Water can dissipate quite a bit of heat by conduction and boiling off .
If the heat created by the current flow can be handled by the water .......I am calling it low charge density
If the water can't disapate enough heat then the water starts to break down into plasma . .........I am calling this high charge density .
What Xbox called 300 VDC electrolysis in his video is an example of low charge density .
One way of raising the effective charge density might be to make the anode smaller (more power per square inch .)
Another way would be to use pulses rather than DC.( same power but in shorter time periods )
I am still thinking that something like Allcanadians circuit from the Tesla challenge might work best .
gary
..
Hi all
I'm posting this because I think that these steps made by Capacitor70 are very important to any one ho is trying to run his engine on water.
I also think that this post should be at the beginning of this thread right next to the working circuit.
This was a reply of Capacitor70 to a question of mine.
QuoteBut still this doesn't make much sence to me. Why should we add gas or hho wen you could do it without any of those.
If we don't have any rotation of engine how we can tune it to work alone on water.
at very first day of plasma test on engine I added some gasoline in the carburetor then water is given at gasoline intake. Many times engine stopped immediately, so I adjusted the carburetor screws to get it work properly with mixture of water and gasoline (adjust to higher RPM maximum quantity of fuel or water), Once we got good results with mixture then I have taken test for one hour to confirm that settings are optimum, but still I am having doubt that it is running on gasoline vapors and plasma supports very lean mixture. after tests I opened carburetor to see gasoline quantity in it, gasoline is not present in carburetor but smell of gasoline is coming from it.
After few days I have taken another test without putting gasoline and cleaned carburetor to see that no gasoline present during test to confirm that it is running on pure water. and same video of pure water I have uploaded, It is very difficult to tune the engine to run on 100% water, that's why I am saying start with gasoline vapors or HHO.
What you see in video is little success, I have many videos of failure also....
Regards
Capacitor70
Quote from: Dread on August 04, 2008, 04:08:35 AM
Xbox, great vid.
Did you notice the difference in flame characteristics after the electrolysis event? If not, look again. Flame is blue and way above the flame it looks like super heated steam or hot air. How did you insulate the cathode?
I am currently not using Cap coil system but might change over. Please repeat your experiment using different electrolytes. You are still 1 week ahead of me. :P but we are def. on the same mission.
Rgds.
D
Here ya go... the first one is right after the bubbles...and the second one is what the rest in the video look like...
The insulation is just several layers of heat shrink tubing. I just layered it until it fit.
Here is another image i got from the pressure test vid...
You can see the start and the high point. It starts just over 40psi, and the high point is between 50-55psi ;D
Cap70 we should exaimine the event in detail....i hope these images will help......
I got more to come ;D
@Xbox,
Wow!! 10-15 psi increase in pressure, just using two screws as a spark gap....
are you able to do a pressure test with a spark plug, i wonder what the pressure difference might be??
HV
Wow, just with the spark we are getting pressure increase? Or did you have water in there? What does this mean exactly?
@HV:
It is a double edge sword...the pressure goes up, but it goes back down. quiman13 said that the HHO explodes and causes expansion, but when the HHO recombines to H2O it creates a vacuum.
@supergod:
It DID have water in it...i dont remember if the gauge moved without water...i will redo it...
QuoteIt is a double edge sword...the pressure goes up, but it goes back down. quiman13 said that the HHO explodes and causes expansion, but when the HHO recombines to H2O it creates a vacuum.
This is very important point, for adjusting engine timings, last night I am thinking about why two stroke engine worked with HHO and not four stroke, Stan Mayer also have this problem so he adds argon to reduce burning speed of HHO, same thing comes in my mind.
@Xbox
Adding inductor in series with capacitor helps to reduce current flow, this may reduce burning speed of flame. (in between spark plug and capacitor +ve terminal)
But it may create problem of glow discharge (cold electricity).
DEFINITIVE PRESSURE TEST w/ PLASMA SPARK.
I made a jig with a real gauge this time!!!
The start pressure is at 35psi.. and with plasma event with water it jumps to 75psi !!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
View the video here!!!!!!
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=He26yOULGu4
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Nice Work X
Plugs are en route
@Xbox,
Great video!!! Thats some serious pressure for a single spark!.......I'm happy to see "gettinwet" is sending you some of the boat plugs to try out , they look promising....Have you seen what they look like?
Best Regards,
HV
Quote from: happyvalley808 on August 05, 2008, 09:21:02 PM
@Xbox,
Great video!!! Thats some serious pressure for a single spark!.......I'm happy to see "gettinwet" is sending you some of the boat plugs to try out , they look promising....Have you seen what they look like?
Best Regards,
HV
I have not...but he is on the other coast, so i will see in one to two days...LOL
I made it to the post office right at closing. It will prolly be Thursday. I sent you 4 so you have extras to "blow up" ;D ;D ;D ;D
@gettinwet,
What can you tell us about the plugs, you said you went to mercury school ... Why were these plugs used on mercury engines rather than a reg. plug ?..........How long have you worked on boat engines?......I never would have thought that a spark plug could fire, submersed in oil...what did it look like firing in oil??? Any info is appreciated..........
Mahalo Nui Loa,
HV
Xbox,
You have a great opportunity with your current test rig to see if electrolyte (just use salt in the water) will 1. increase pressure. 2 maintain pressure. Please please please repeat and report.
Thanks.
D
@Xbox,
This is the best picture and description of the L76V marine plug that I could find..... just to give you a visual....
http://www.sparkplugs.com/more_info.asp?AAIA=&pid=8790
HV
;D ;D Excelent work , xbox !!!
You?re in the right way !
Regards !!
Quote from: Dread on August 06, 2008, 03:49:02 AM
Xbox,
You have a great opportunity with your current test rig to see if electrolyte (just use salt in the water) will 1. increase pressure. 2 maintain pressure. Please please please repeat and report.
Thanks.
D
I have to make some modifications to the jig.....it has some problems, it does not fire every time, and only real noticeable gauge movement is when the water is right on the gap. So i need to make a injector like thing to spray some water on the gap.....need more tests!!!!!!!
The pressure is steady in the vid.
As a side note.... i was messing with it had 40psi at start and fired it.......the pressure bottomed out the gauge!!!! OVER 160psi !!!!
@everyone:
If anyone is still using the diode designs....cap70's, luc's, mine.....please build a jig like i did, its cheap. And do a similar test! I dont have any diodes anymore.....
@HV:
thanx for the image, that looks very promising......
@gettinwet:
thanx for the plugs!
Does anyone know how to convert psi to Joules?
Guess you need to know the diameter of the cilinder?
I have done tests igniting the cell itself. Might be some info that will help.
http://www.youtube.com/user/CarbideTip
Quote from: happyvalley808 on August 05, 2008, 10:27:23 PM
@gettinwet,
What can you tell us about the plugs, you said you went to mercury school ... Why were these plugs used on mercury engines rather than a reg. plug ?..........How long have you worked on boat engines?......I never would have thought that a spark plug could fire, submersed in oil...what did it look like firing in oil??? Any info is appreciated..........
Mahalo Nui Loa,
HV
Merc likes these plugs because 1. no gap to mess with. 2.They dont run as hot as a standard "L" electrode plug when higher voltage is applied.
When immersed for the oil demonstration it looked like a normal ignition spark with some bubbles being created.
xbox, can you do multiple blasts as fast as you can to see if we can spread out the pressure to a longer time frame? Instead of one blast try 3 or more. If we can get water to mimic the burn time of gasoline, why, we'd have a much more powerful fuel wouldn't we? Who needs gasoline when you can use fucking water? Lol, this is rediculous. I never thought it would be so easy to propel an engine using STRAIGHT water. I can't wait for my paycheck this week.
Quote from: Super God on August 06, 2008, 11:29:08 AM
xbox, can you do multiple blasts as fast as you can to see if we can spread out the pressure to a longer time frame? Instead of one blast try 3 or more. If we can get water to mimic the burn time of gasoline, why, we'd have a much more powerful fuel wouldn't we? Who needs gasoline when you can use fucking water? Lol, this is rediculous. I never thought it would be so easy to propel an engine using STRAIGHT water. I can't wait for my paycheck this week.
No i cant.... i need to redesign the jig to "inject water" in to the gap....one shot and its gone. But i can do multiple sparks, almost as fast as i can. But not with the same POWER as the video... :-\
I have a idea for the HHO recombining vacuum problem....i will let you know...
Hey X, did you get your injector figured out yet? If not I have and idea if interested ( using your current rig)
Quote from: gettinwet on August 06, 2008, 08:42:05 PM
Hey X, did you get your injector figured out yet? If not I have and idea if interested ( using your current rig)
I have been too busy to think about it....but i would love suggestions!!!! ;D
X check your PM
Quote from: xbox hacker on August 06, 2008, 08:55:59 PM
I have been too busy to think about it....but i would love suggestions!!!! ;D
Hi,
Congrates man, you are close to hit the target and change the world completely.
I was just thinking about adding up small quantity of Hydroxy along with water / water steam. This i am thinking based on one video on youtube where they claim to run the car on water (supplying Hydrogen and steam).
To my mind using the water steam along with Hydroxy will give us flexibility in supply the mixture to the engine cylinder as both are in gas form.
Just an thought. Because after my initial setup (Cap70 circuit), i am planning to try out this.
Regards
Praveen
@Pvar06,
I think you are correct, a combo system would give more flexibility.... Have you thought of using a GEET set-up with a plasma spark ( Cap70 circuit)...Lets hear what you think??
Regards,
HV
@pvar06,
Is this the circuit your looking at........Hope i was some help......
Quote from: xbox hacker on August 06, 2008, 08:55:59 PM
I have been too busy to think about it....but i would love suggestions!!!! ;D
Xbox
for your test jig getting the plug wet should be very easy .
Just put a LITTLE water in it and seal it up
Shake it .
lay it down .
connect the wires .
fire it.
each time you shake it up , the water will take a certain amount of time to flow back to the bottom of the jig
gary
Quote from: resonanceman on August 07, 2008, 07:30:42 AM
Xbox
for your test jig getting the plug wet should be very easy .
Just put a LITTLE water in it and seal it up
Shake it .
lay it down .
connect the wires .
fire it.
each time you shake it up , the water will take a certain amount of time to flow back to the bottom of the jig
gary
AHHHHH...not that easy! I tried that ;) The main problem currently is is can spray the water on the gap, but when i apply pressure i think the air removes the water form the gap...and probably shoots the water into the gauge too. So i think i need water applied AFTER the unit is already pressurized....at the gap.
Hi Xbox....
I suggest a capillary tube to the electrode gap....
I suggested this awhile back on Luc's "urgent" thread...
the idea would be to simply "hang" a drop of water right where you need it.
The water "source" bottle would have to share the same pressure that you would maintain in the cylinder.
Then a slight "squeeze" (or something "like" it) on the bottle would "hang" the drop.
.....just a thought ;)
p.s.-- perhaps same idea with capillary tube...use hypodermic instead of bottle... plunger has a "stop" to hold pressure...
the "stop" is threaded so a small "turn" would slightly depress the plunger and "hang" the drop (or protrude a "bulb" of water)
something like that... :)
Hi Xbox...!
I suggest the following : An gasoline injector (a monopoint or multipoint fuel injector) that you can use as send the water presurized , with a water pump (gasoline fuel pump serve ?? ) .And pehrhaps also need a caudal regulator valve as an electronic fuel injection (same schematic).
The injector can receive 12 v pulses secuencially of a pulse of a ignition (as same of a electronic fuel injection).You must know the caudal of the injector (lbs/minute) , and the WIDE of 12 volt pulse will be a "richment" of gasoline .....?gasoline said?..sorry ... WATER say !!!
very confused ?..sorry ..
;)
@Xbox
I am at work and have taken an old Detroit Diesel injector apart and removed the nozzle. I am working on silver soldering it into a fitting that you can screw into your jig and spray away. I am trying to get it to fit into an 1/8" pipe tap fitting to keep it small. I'll let you know how its going later on
Wet
PS If you dont have your plugs yet they should be there today.
Quote from: pablitosax on August 07, 2008, 10:08:48 AM
Hi Xbox...!
I suggest the following : An gasoline injector (a monopoint or multipoint fuel injector) that you can use as send the water presurized , with a water pump (gasoline fuel pump serve ¿? ) .And pehrhaps also need a caudal regulator valve as an electronic fuel injection (same schematic).
The injector can receive 12 v pulses secuencially of a pulse of a ignition (as same of a electronic fuel injection).You must know the caudal of the injector (lbs/minute) , and the WIDE of 12 volt pulse will be a "richment" of gasoline .....¿gasoline said?..sorry ... WATER say !!!
very confused ?..sorry ..
;)
i had thought of that...but i dont have any laying around...and i dont have the money to buy one....lol I guess i will have to wait till payday......
@gettinwet:
THANX for all your help!!!!
@Xbox
No problem man. Have to contribute how I can.
The Detroit nozzle didnt work. The holes in the tip are too fine. It takes over 100 psi to get water to spray out.
Plan 2. I have an old cutting torch tip I am trying right now. If I can get water to spray out with resonable pressure I'll send it to you.
This tip is going to require a 1/4 npt hole in your jig.
Wet
Quote from: gettinwet on August 07, 2008, 11:55:51 AM
@Xbox
No problem man. Have to contribute how I can.
The Detroit nozzle didnt work. The holes in the tip are too fine. It takes over 100 psi to get water to spray out.
Plan 2. I have an old cutting torch tip I am trying right now. If I can get water to spray out with resonable pressure I'll send it to you.
This tip is going to require a 1/4 npt hole in your jig.
Wet
1/4" not a problem! The gauge and air inlet are 1/4".....
I wish i was still working at the machine shop i worked at...this would have been done WEEKS AGO....LOL
@ Xbox
ok 1/4" wont work It will have to be 3/8 npt
I just took some crappy pics with my phone and I'll upload them in a minute
Wet
Quote from: gettinwet on August 07, 2008, 12:09:15 PM
@ Xbox
ok 1/4" wont work It will have to be 3/8 npt
I just took some crappy pics with my phone and I'll upload them in a minute
Wet
Cant wait to see them!!!
@gettinwet :
i also wait for :
ok 1/4" wont work It will have to be 3/8 npt
I just took some crappy pics with my phone and I'll upload them in a minute
@xbox :
I?m thinking about my idea....is not for use now....beacuse this injectos that i saw is for an INDIRECT injection .But it maybe will serve in a future for a inject water in a intake maindold of a engine.
For this experiment can serve a DIRECT injection of a Diesel Engine....but is TOOOO EXPENSIVE !!!!
Rather of this , i?m waiting for a pics of gettinwet.. :-)
I think you guys getting of topic with these injectors!
For injecting plasma indirect injection is not going to work because is indirect!
Diesel is not going to work because you will fry the injector pump with water!
The only injector system that could work is direct gasoline injection in a highly modified way.
But if the real s1r was done this with carbulator than I suggest to stick with at.
Than move on for injection....
Quote from: tiltfulll on August 07, 2008, 02:11:03 PM
I think you guys getting of topic with these injectors!
For injecting plasma indirect injection is not going to work because is indirect!
Diesel is not going to work because you will fry the injector pump with water!
The only injector system that could work is direct gasoline injection in a highly modified way.
But if the real s1r was done this with carbulator than I suggest to stick with at.
Than move on for injection....
The injection topic is for the injection of water into a pressure test jig that i have made, water needs to be placed at the spark gap, thus the need for the injection of the water, thus the need to talk about how the best way to do it.......
I think the carb will work fine, but it WILL NOT work on the bench! We need to find out more about the Cap70 coil system, tune it in, then move into a engine....I made the mistake of skipping steps and place the setup in a engine... i fell flat on my face, it didnt work. Thats why we need more bench tests! :)
Ok I see where you going now!
Hmm...
I liked that pressure test but it's not imitating the engine correctly!
In the engine the water air mixture is hot because the fast compression.
And the space is a lot smaller in the moment of the plasma discharge.
That can make a big difference in the length of the pressure spike!
I know that you sad that you tried in the engine and fell on your face but it's may be some timing issue!
Would be nice to get an engine running with gas and plasma sparks first!
When I tried that it was not good, but the engine was not reliable!
Had mechanical issues...
I think that is the way to go: get it running with gas first!
@tiltfulll:
The engine didnt run because we didnt understand all the variables!
So i will list some variables, so we can conquer them. ;D
-Their is a certain primary spark gap setting to allow the secondary gap to fire under pressure, i have documented that in a video.
-Chamber size (as you stated, you 100% right)
-Chamber temp
-Secondary spark gap size... the bigger the gap the bigger the event!
-Secondary spark gap shape... Blunt, pointed, or round
-Water amount added
-Water temp
-Water type...tap, well, distilled....ect
-Water type in another form....steam, fog, mist....
-DC voltage
-DC amps
-Chamber pressure at fire
-Spark gap electrode material type
-Cap70 coil turn ratios
-Capacitor size on the primary
-Amount of cold beer on hand ;D
I am sure their is more.......
As for the primary gap to secondary gap relationship, i took to BRAND NEW plugs, one for primary and one for secondary. Both with stock gap setting, the secondary did not fire under pressure. More tests needed!
Quote from: happyvalley808 on August 07, 2008, 02:18:09 AM
@Pvar06,
I think you are correct, a combo system would give more flexibility.... Have you thought of using a GEET set-up with a plasma spark ( Cap70 circuit)...Lets hear what you think??
Regards,
HV
No I have not thought of using the GEET system with Cap70 circuit. But in any case i am planning to use the combo system. I think such combo system should make out life easy.
Today i have tested out the Cap70 circuit but could not get spark at both the plug. I dont know what is the problem. Any way i will send you PM on my trail as dont want to disturb the advance stage discussions happening here.
Happy testing.
Regards
Praveen
Quote from: xbox hacker on August 05, 2008, 08:10:39 PM
DEFINITIVE PRESSURE TEST w/ PLASMA SPARK.
I made a jig with a real gauge this time!!!
The start pressure is at 35psi.. and with plasma event with water it jumps to 75psi !!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Great to see progress Xbox.
Well it seems that plasma ball is doing 75-35 = 40 psi
Could you try the next:
- gasoline drop with the HV spark only
- gasoline drop with the full circuit
and see what is the pressure then
that will save a lot of time for analyzes of what power is required for engine running :D
thanks again for sharing your observations.
@vlindos:
I already tried a drop of gas on hte plug while it was on the bench....a VERY small amount was suffeicent for a nice effect. I also made a vid with some gas on the plug, too much gas was used and it just started a fire. I dont think i want to try it under pressure with gas in a PVC test jig....LOL
Here is some info i would like to share.....
-Secondary spark gap shape
I have been useing 2 SS bolts for tests, they naturally have blunt ends. So i got 2 more and ground them both to a point (like a pencil).
With the 2 normal bolts the plasma flame seems to to arc out of one spot (its going to be hard to describe) Picture a propane torch that is lit, thats what the plasma flame looks like when it shoots out of the gap.
With the 2 pointed bolts the plasma flame COMPLETELY ENCOMPASSES the gap....360 degrees!!!!! I have burn marks on the bench to prove it...LOL
I have not tried it in the jig yet.....
Of course i have NO WAY to record the event with a camera, but you can see it with your eye! But dont look too long...lol
Quote from: xbox hacker on August 07, 2008, 04:55:16 PM
@tiltfulll:
The engine didnt run because we didnt understand all the variables!
So i will list some variables, so we can conquer them. ;D
-Their is a certain primary spark gap setting to allow the secondary gap to fire under pressure, i have documented that in a video.
-Chamber size (as you stated, you 100% right)
-Chamber temp
-Secondary spark gap size... the bigger the gap the bigger the event!
-Secondary spark gap shape... Blunt, pointed, or round
-Water amount added
-Water temp
-Water type...tap, well, distilled....ect
-Water type in another form....steam, fog, mist....
-DC voltage
-DC amps
-Chamber pressure at fire
-Spark gap electrode material type
-Cap70 coil turn ratios
-Capacitor size on the primary
-Amount of cold beer on hand ;D
I am sure their is more.......
As for the primary gap to secondary gap relationship, i took to BRAND NEW plugs, one for primary and one for secondary. Both with stock gap setting, the secondary did not fire under pressure. More tests needed!
Well, i suggest the diode circuit for testing since that gives us less variables!;)
I know that is what I going to do....
I got 40 diode for 14 bucks including shipping! ;D
I hooking up two series of twelve in parallel, that way they maybe last longer. :-\
Also need to get more cold beer ;D ;D ;D!
Cap70 say's increasing the number of diodes will not help......But you never know till you try for your self...
HV
I thinking that if the lv current can split down beat vine the two set than it maybe works better...
I also thinking of putting the diodes into an oil bath for cooling! ::)
Like an oil cooled pc.
Try it at your own risk, This circuit makes plasma spark without discharging capacitor (may be little discharge can be observed)
It is not tested I don't have same rating capacitors, USE ALL THREE CAPACITOR OF SAME RATING. KEEP VOLTAGE RATING DOUBLE THAN THE CHARGE VOLTAGE. relays can be used to change the position of capacitor.
I have taken test with 1000uF 25V capacitors,
during test capacitors are charged at 12V, after first step I measured voltage across each capacitors
capacitor 1 and 2 voltages are 5V and capacitor 3 is having 10V
as per Q=CV
initially I am having total charge of Q=24m
after step 1 total charge is Q=20m :o (this gives me little arc also and consider self discharge of capacitor It menace that it is possible to get plasma at very low current or without discharging capacitors)
Those who have electric bike :D, I don't know how to switch four batteries to get this effect. If any one want to discuss more PM me. don't think bottom sentence written by me I born in 1985.
Hi all,
I thought that I was late on replicating cap70 idling engine on pure tap water. But I still don't see any successful replication yet. 8)
I'm writing today because I need help from a mechanic.
I have a B&S 3HP 127CC engine and i have it set up with and external car HV coil.
Since this engine has dry contacts, I think it is called points and condenser ignition, I used them to set the timing to my HV car coil and then used a 12V battery to feed the coil.
Today I fired up my engine on pure gas and it idle quite easy, has always! :P
But!........ it just idles and it doesn't rev up like this guy here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAlGfIzbfc8
Could it be that since I don't use the original HV coil, the timing has changed and now is offset?
More Test Data!
Gettinwet had sent me some plugs for marine engines. WOW!!!!! They work great!!! Nice plasma flame shoots straight out of the top! ;D ;D
So here is a test i did, i put the gettinwet's plug in the jig i made, with NO pressure and a small amount of water...plug on one end and the gauge on the other. Completely sealed! I started firing it... the gauge didnt really move too much at first a few psi...but over time (about 10mins of firing, total test time) The pressure started building up...a little at a time. I got the thing up to 40PSI!!!!!!! JUST WITH THE PLASMA FIRING!!!! The more the pressure in the tube the higher the gain when the plasma fires! Then it started leaking air :P
But the gauge still goes up on fire and back down after, but somehow i was able o make the pressure stay just enough to add more to it on the next fire. Rapid fire is still not close, but this plug fires 3 times faster then the last vid i did!
Now i had tried this setup in the jig with a normal plug and 2 bolt electrode setup and it didnt even come close to these results....
SO...who wants me to make a vid of it...LOL
@HV:
you said they were on sale at walmart for $1 ...BUY THEM ALL......lol ;D
Quote from: rfsimoes on August 08, 2008, 04:49:04 PM
Hi all,
I thought that I was late on replicating cap70 idling engine on pure tap water. But I still don't see any successful replication yet. 8)
I'm writing today because I need help from a mechanic.
I have a B&S 3HP 127CC engine and i have it set up with and external car HV coil.
Since this engine has dry contacts, I think it is called points and condenser ignition, I used them to set the timing to my HV car coil and then used a 12V battery to feed the coil.
Today I fired up my engine on pure gas and it idle quite easy, has always! :P
But!........ it just idles and it doesn't rev up like this guy here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAlGfIzbfc8
Could it be that since I don't use the original HV coil, the timing has changed and now is offset?
I not familiar with that engine but if you just using a different coil I don't see how would be your timing off.
Unless you loosened up the "dry contacts" or the plate that the contacts are mounted.
Usually the plate that holds the contacts are turnable, that is how you adjust the timing.
about the "pressure" topic:
Here http://mb-soft.com/public2/engine.html is written that in normal internal combustion engines the pressure is arised 5 times during the explosion. So from 120 psi (at TDC) the piston driving force goes up to 500 psi. And that is for let say 2l engine, 4 stroke -> 0.5l cylinder chamber.
@cap70,xbox:
would you reveal little more details about the latest circuits that you are using (about the coil based).
what is the toroid size? does the coil needs to be toroid (i saw pictures from xbox using PVC :)? what is the capacitance of the capacitors included after the coil 2200, 3900, 7000 - nanofarads ? what is the purpose of the first spark plug and how the electricity goes through the gap, because the voltage after the inverter seems to be no more than 315 V? How ofter you successed "plasma sparks" in second?
@xbox:
I remember you'd said that you achieved pressure 160 psi from 40 psi - 4x times pressure increase. This is a good sign, isn't it? The thing is how to constant and make happens more often? what is the size of your pvc chamber?
@cap70:
about your latest invention: from the schema you'd posted it isn't clear what and where is destined, is this schema intented to fire a plasma spark at all ;D ? how do you charge discharge the capacitors ?
thanks!
@Xbox,
This is great news , i knew when i saw these plugs they were special. I hope they work in a motor.....WE WANT MORE VIDEO'S !!!!!!!!
@All,
These are "Champion" marine plugs # L76V
Aloha,
HV
@ Xbox
Glad they got there!!! Can't wait to see the video!
@vlindos:
The schematic is here.....
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3977.0;attach=25503
The size if the toroidal does not matter, i use a linear ferrite rod! I am useing 500pF @ 6000V cap onthe primary side. Cap70 siad the primary spark gap is like a switch, and the secondary gets its HV from the inductance of the transformer. I have many images, i dont know what one you are looking at that has PVC, but if you tell me what one i will tell you what it is....
@everyone:
I made a vid, and it is prossising now....but i FUCK UP...the camera died and i didnt know!!!!! LOL so i kept testing, then i figured it out, and started rolling again, but the data is off because the laps of time... :-\ But it still shows what i was talking about...AND THEN IT LEAKED AGAIN....LOLOLOL!!!!!!!!
I have to run to Lowes to get new PVC...
Quote from: xbox hacker on August 08, 2008, 07:08:33 PM
The size if the toroidal does not matter, i use a linear ferrite rod! I am useing 500pF @ 6000V cap onthe primary side. Cap70 siad the primary spark gap is like a switch, and the secondary gets its HV from the inductance of the transformer.
Thanks for the explanation (silly me). So the new capacitors are just for the raising the switch on and the lesser capacitance lesser jaules be stolen from the HV spark. Wondering how much farads would be enough to raise switch enough to discharge the big cap.
Quote from: xbox hacker on August 08, 2008, 07:08:33 PM
I have many images, i dont know what one you are looking at that has PVC, but if you tell me what one i will tell you what it is....
The one that you've claimed you having 160 psi (i think no video was posted about that).
BTW you didn't mentioned how much is the current rate of successefuly "plasma sparks" per second (or period if not possible to count ;D )
Thank you again.
@vlindos:
The PVC thing is a pressure testing jig i made.......
@Everyone!!!!!
I completely encourage everyone to make one of Cap70s coil plasma sparker!!! Try to make it to specs and then experiment and try new things!!!!!
@Xbox
Where's the vid dude... I wanna see my plugs in action!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
OK...new move is up...here it is....
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=j7hXLvjL_ZY
Sorry it took so long, i had to paste 2 movies together.
It seems that the more pressure the better the plasma pressure!! BUT i have to do some more tests!!!!
Please let me know you thoughts and observations...THANX!!!
@Xbox,
I'm lovin it! Can we please see a close up of the plug firing out side the chamber ?....Does it miss-fire like the normal plugs?
Thank you,
HV
Quote from: happyvalley808 on August 08, 2008, 09:53:05 PM
@Xbox,
I'm lovin it! Can we please see a close up of the plug firing out side the chamber ?....Does it miss-fire like the normal plugs?
Thank you,
HV
NO YOU CAN NOT!!!!! NOT EVER!!!!!!!!!.....lol
But really, i cant catch the plasma flame with my camera....if anyone wants to lend me a high speed camera..... ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D
But i will say the flame is FANTASTIC!!!!!!!
I will try to catch it and see what it looks like. And i will make sure the camera is charged!!!!! LOL
@xbox
Good job! I didn't have time to work on the injector today. I was going to go into the shop tomorrow AM for a while and try to sort it out but I now have to captain a boat tomorrow morning so maybe in the PM I will swing by the shop and finish.
Hi All,
Yet another sad day for me. As i could not get the plasma spark on my plug using the Cap70 circuit. I would be glad if some body can pin point the error. I did the following:
1. Did not used the pulse pickup coil and attached diaod / transistor as i have taken the HV directly from my bike, which already has the Pulse pickup coil, capacitor and ignition coil.
2. Primary coil 32 turns using Aluminium / copper wire of 16 gauge and on secondary side it was 12 turns.
2. Rest all circuit is same as Cap70 circuit.
I had following obervations:
1. The insulated wire coil (12 turns) was getting the charge from ingition coil and returning the same to the earth side of the plug. Since the positive and earth were shorted out hence no spark at plug when place in the circuit.
2. No heat is observed at coil or any other component.
3. When removed the ground connection on the plug coming from the coil there was a spark on the plug as this time there was no sorting and plug was getting the HV from ignition coil.
4. When the wire connected to the earth side of the plug is removed and taken to near to the bike body then it was showing the spark. I think the positive charge coming out from the plug and going to the other end through insulated wire, but was not in position to energize the primary coil having 32 turns.
I dont know the mistake i did. Any help in this matter is highly appriciable.
Regards
Praveen
Hi All,
Although i could not get the first plasma spark using the Cap70 curcuit but still i am thinking about various solutions. I hope i will get the desired help to get the first spark.
I was thinking of removing the ignition coil and capacitor from the system and was planning to use the Color monitor flyback transformer. The reason for using this was on following account:
1. It modulates the power at 15.7 Khz which is close to the 14.3 Khz (the best frequecy described in Stan document to detonate the water).
2. It has constant and good high voltage at all the time but unfortunately with low current.
3. We can use the point system to retard / advance the ignition timing and this switch will be on 12 volt side.
We can use the coil side circuit of Cap70 to add up the current. I think this can give us the desired result. One schematic for the same is enclosed herewith, would like to have the view of the members.
Regards
Praveen
Quote from: pvar06 on August 09, 2008, 02:47:27 PM
Hi All,
Yet another sad day for me. As i could not get the plasma spark on my plug using the Cap70 circuit. I would be glad if some body can pin point the error. I did the following:
1. Did not used the pulse pickup coil and attached diaod / transistor as i have taken the HV directly from my bike, which already has the Pulse pickup coil, capacitor and ignition coil.
2. Primary coil 32 turns using Aluminium / copper wire of 16 gauge and on secondary side it was 12 turns.
2. Rest all circuit is same as Cap70 circuit.
I had following obervations:
1. The insulated wire coil (12 turns) was getting the charge from ingition coil and returning the same to the earth side of the plug. Since the positive and earth were shorted out hence no spark at plug when place in the circuit.
2. No heat is observed at coil or any other component.
3. When removed the ground connection on the plug coming from the coil there was a spark on the plug as this time there was no sorting and plug was getting the HV from ignition coil.
4. When the wire connected to the earth side of the plug is removed and taken to near to the bike body then it was showing the spark. I think the positive charge coming out from the plug and going to the other end through insulated wire, but was not in position to energize the primary coil having 32 turns.
I dont know the mistake i did. Any help in this matter is highly appriciable.
Regards
Praveen
Hi Praveen!
Here is a fyu things you could think about.:
- I'm not sure if its mater but try at with resistor free spark plug on both side.
I was able to get that circuit fire with plugs like that.
- On my mover i have a coil and two magnet on the flywheel so I guess it's sparks twice rapidly one after a another, if your bike has that kind of ignition that may be a problem. I don't know because never tried that circuit with the mover.
- Your primary is the one with 12 turns, the secondary is the mag wire with 32.
Always the primary coil gets energized first than the secondary from the primary's magnetic field.
8)
Hope it's helps!
Quote from: happyvalley808 on August 03, 2008, 05:59:43 PM
@Xbox,
I've found a champion spark plug made for boats. ( L76V)... It is resistor-less, and it doesn't have a normal "J"
cathode.....It arcs in a 360 radius.. This may help if the plugs cathode is getting fried ????
Has anyone used one of these plugs???? ......I got mine from Wal-mart for $2.00 on clearance......
Let me know what you think....................
Mahalo Nui Loa
HV
Testers can get non resistor spark plugs at this site for testing. http://www.summitracing.com/ :D
Hi
Peter here,
New to this group ,i have been following progress keenly and have begun building a test unit that i will need help with, but for now I would like to give you all a good link that will i hope speed up the experimenting so that we can all drive around with just water in our tanks. See-- http://www.woodward.com/engine/gaseng/smartfire/smart.cfm (http://www.woodward.com/engine/gaseng/smartfire/smart.cfm) .It seems to have very advanced circuitry ,and looks very promising-------------p :o
Quote from: peteroks on August 09, 2008, 11:34:22 PM
Hi
Peter here,
New to this group ,i have been following progress keenly and have begun building a test unit that i will need help with, but for now I would like to give you all a good link that will i hope speed up the experimenting so that we can all drive around with just water in our tanks. See-- http://www.woodward.com/engine/gaseng/smartfire/smart.cfm (http://www.woodward.com/engine/gaseng/smartfire/smart.cfm) .It seems to have very advanced circuitry ,and looks very promising-------------p :o
Yes it does...but someone had mentioned that it was like $20k...........LOL
Quote from: peteroks on August 09, 2008, 11:34:22 PM
Hi
Peter here,
New to this group ,i have been following progress keenly and have begun building a test unit that i will need help with, but for now I would like to give you all a good link that will i hope speed up the experimenting so that we can all drive around with just water in our tanks. See-- http://www.woodward.com/engine/gaseng/smartfire/smart.cfm (http://www.woodward.com/engine/gaseng/smartfire/smart.cfm) .It seems to have very advanced circuitry ,and looks very promising-------------p :o
Peter,
Thanks for the link.
HV
@All,
I just found these coils that attach to the top of each spark plug, there designed to make a plasma spark......AND it doesn;t cost $20K....LOL............Check it out..........http://subydriver.com/okadaprosp.html
Regards,
HV
@All,
Check it out..........
http://subydriver.com/okadaprosp.html
Regards,
HV
Quote from: tiltfulll on August 09, 2008, 03:18:07 PM
Hi Praveen!
Here is a fyu things you could think about.:
- I'm not sure if its mater but try at with resistor free spark plug on both side.
I was able to get that circuit fire with plugs like that.
- On my mover i have a coil and two magnet on the flywheel so I guess it's sparks twice rapidly one after a another, if your bike has that kind of ignition that may be a problem. I don't know because never tried that circuit with the mover.
- Your primary is the one with 12 turns, the secondary is the mag wire with 32.
Always the primary coil gets energized first than the secondary from the primary's magnetic field.
8)
Hope it's helps!
Thanks for reply. Today again i have tried out my luck but ???. My parameters are as follows;
1. Primary with 12 turn tested out with 18 gauge copper plain insulated wire, 20 gauge enamel insulated copper wire, 18 gauge enamel insulated Aluminium wire. These test have been carried out by keeping the secondary with 32 turns Magnetic wire (16 gauge Aluminium with enamel insulation).
2. I have tested out all the combination of primary coil with 12 turns using 14 gauge copper enamel insulated copper wire in seconday with 32 turns.
3. Checked out both the spark plug and there was no resistance observed on multimeter.
4. The connection from the ignition coil taken out from the bike itself.
5. For testing the bike circuit supplied 40 volt AC to capacitor of bike (before ignition coil) and observed a weak spark when the coil circuit is removed. That mean at ignition coil side every thing is ok.
6. Supplied 230 volt AC with bulb in series at Primary to check the megnatic field in the secondary but did not observe any magnetic field there, also there was no reading on multimeter at secondary side.
With the above test it is clear that there is some problem in the coil winding. Shown the coil to transformer winder but he could not give any clue as this was a coil which he has seen first time in his life .. haha.
My analysis / obervations;
1. Is there any problem in the ferraite core, where i have wounded my coil?
2. Is the type of wire used for testing (Aluminium / Copper) are not of desired specificaitons? I have checked the wiki and as per the information provided there the Magnetic wire are Aluminium / Copper.
3. Or there may be some problem in the electronic component used in the circuit? As far as i know the component used by me are as per the specification given in the circuit.
I dont know what is happening. But wanted to see the huge spark, if not today then tommorrow. Enclosing herewith the picture of my coil.
Look forward some help on the above.
Regards
Praveen
@Praveen
1. Which wire you are using for primary ?
If it is red color aluminum wire with 12 Turns then it will not work.
2. Which wire you are using for secondary ?
If it is copper wire with 32 turns then it will not work.
3. Give capacitor specifications.
Primary must be with copper wire 12 Turns
and secondary with thick insulation wire 32 to 50 turns range, increase secondary turns to 50 turns.
Some where I mentioned testing procedure read previous posts.
@pvar06:
This seems to be a similar problem i had when i first started using the coil setup....i couldnt get it to spark. It turns out that a very important key to getting my setup to work was the HV capacitor on the primary side!! I finally used a 500pF @ 6000V and it works every time...with every coil i have made!! I also have had much better luck with linear ferrite coils rather than toroidal style....but that is just my opinion! (and they are MUCH easier to wind!!)
Here are a few test steps that might help you and anyone else....
1.connect primary side components to transformer coil, and connect secondary output to a spark plug.... One wire from the secondary to the top of the plug, and the other wire from the secondary to the base of the plug. (this setup will not have the DC) We are simple testing the spark on the secondary. You should see a "normal spark" on the secondary plug. Continue using this setup until you have successfully achieved a spark on the secondary plug. At that point, you can move on to adding the DC to the secondary.
2.Using the same setup from step 1....turn off all the lights and see if their is any arcing in you windings of your transformer coil. This will test for breaks in the enameled wire....you will see spark on the transformer itself.(this is a bad thing...lol)
3. I suggest using a adjustable gap tool for the primary side spark gap.
Quote from: capacitor70 on August 10, 2008, 10:57:40 AM
@Praveen
1. Which wire you are using for primary ?
If it is red color aluminum wire with 12 Turns then it will not work.
2. Which wire you are using for secondary ?
If it is copper wire with 32 turns then it will not work.
3. Give capacitor specifications.
Primary must be with copper wire 12 Turns
and secondary with thick insulation wire 32 to 50 turns range, increase secondary turns to 50 turns.
Some where I mentioned testing procedure read previous posts.
@Cap70
Thanks for your reply. The details are as follows:
1. The wire shown in the picture for primary is 18 gauge plain insulated copper wire. Normally used for house hold wiring. I had given 12 turn at primary.
2. For secondary, I have used 16 gauge Aluminium enamel insulated wire with 32 turns. This wire is normally used for big transformers like welding machine transformer.
3. Following capacitors have been used in the circuit.
a. 300 uF 400 Volt Aluminium Capacitor
b. 2.2 nF 2000 Volt, 16 KHz
c. 3.9 nF 2000 Volt, Vishay Make - MKP Type, 1841-75 series, Frequency rating not mentioned
on capacitor.
d. 7.5 nF 2000 Volt, Vishay make, MKP Type, 1841-75 series, Frequency rating not mentioned
on capacitor.
As I know the 7.5 nF capacitor is normally used in Television sets on Flyback Transformer circuit. I am sensing some problem in the capacitor rating. Now searching the web site of Vishay and will find out the same. I would be gald if you can give the part number and make of these capacitors.
As suggested i will also try out the circuit by increasing the number of turns on secondary with the Aluminium wire having enamel insulation. What do you mean by thick insulation?
Thanks again for reply as this has given me some hints to test further and i know soon i will acheive it.
Regards
Praveen
Quote from: xbox hacker on August 10, 2008, 12:18:16 PM
@pvar06:
This seems to be a similar problem i had when i first started using the coil setup....i couldnt get it to spark. It turns out that a very important key to getting my setup to work was the HV capacitor on the primary side!! I finally used a 500pF @ 6000V and it works every time...with every coil i have made!! I also have had much better luck with linear ferrite coils rather than toroidal style....but that is just my opinion! (and they are MUCH easier to wind!!)
Here are a few test steps that might help you and anyone else....
1.connect primary side components to transformer coil, and connect secondary output to a spark plug.... One wire from the secondary to the top of the plug, and the other wire from the secondary to the base of the plug. (this setup will not have the DC) We are simple testing the spark on the secondary. You should see a "normal spark" on the secondary plug. Continue using this setup until you have successfully achieved a spark on the secondary plug. At that point, you can move on to adding the DC to the secondary.
2.Using the same setup from step 1....turn off all the lights and see if their is any arcing in you windings of your transformer coil. This will test for breaks in the enameled wire....you will see spark on the transformer itself.(this is a bad thing...lol)
3. I suggest using a adjustable gap tool for the primary side spark gap.
@Xbox
Thanks for your reply.
You mean to say that you are using only one capacitor on primary side i.e. 500 pF @ 6000 V in place of three capacitor shown in Cap70 circuit? Is that AC or DC capacitor? Can you give me the part number and make?
Tommorrow i will source these capacitor also along with other capacitors, which Cap70 has suggested. Then i will test out the circuit and will let you know.
Fortunately i have one old radio where a linear ferrite coil is available. So it will be a nice idea to test this out too.
Thanks for the test steps. That will be a gr8 help. Can i know what transformer you are referring to? Is that normal 12 volt to 230 / 110 volt transformer?
You have mentioned about using the adjustable spark gap tool at primary side. I think you are referring to secondary side i.e. DC side. Is that correct?
With yours and Cap70 inputs, i think i will be soon reaching to stage of testing the plasma spark for various other tests like pressure test, Hydroxy test, Tero plug etc etc.
With best regards
Praveen
Here there is some people following the s1r9a9m9 replication too :
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/2242-water-sparkplug-7.html
;D
Quote from: pvar06 on August 10, 2008, 04:34:53 PM
@Xbox
Thanks for your reply.
You mean to say that you are using only one capacitor on primary side i.e. 500 pF @ 6000 V in place of three capacitor shown in Cap70 circuit? Is that AC or DC capacitor? Can you give me the part number and make?
Tommorrow i will source these capacitor also along with other capacitors, which Cap70 has suggested. Then i will test out the circuit and will let you know.
Fortunately i have one old radio where a linear ferrite coil is available. So it will be a nice idea to test this out too.
Thanks for the test steps. That will be a gr8 help. Can i know what transformer you are referring to? Is that normal 12 volt to 230 / 110 volt transformer?
You have mentioned about using the adjustable spark gap tool at primary side. I think you are referring to secondary side i.e. DC side. Is that correct?
With yours and Cap70 inputs, i think i will be soon reaching to stage of testing the plasma spark for various other tests like pressure test, Hydroxy test, Tero plug etc etc.
With best regards
Praveen
I am using 4 - 2kV caps in series..the total capacitance is 500pF and total voltage is 6kV....i do have some caps on order for china, they should be here soon and i will test them to let everyone know that these caps will work for Cap70s Coil!
The transformer i am referring too is the ferrite coil you have made...
The adjustable spark gap is on the PRIMARY side...the HV side!
Quote from: Ursine on August 10, 2008, 11:17:03 AM
I'm doing some pressure experiments with Luc's circuit. I recently shorted out my coil primary. Is it a problem feeding a coil 140+ volts when it's designed for 12-14? How can I protect it?
Thanks,
Dave
This is from the URGENT topic.....this is why i use Cap70s Coil design!!!!! ;D
Hi, All!
I am trying to replicate the cap70 coil circuit design too. And I having problems too. ;D
Any help would be great. Here is the problems (see attached picture of my setup):
If I connect B and C no spark apear anywhere. Guess the HV get "shorted" ?
If I leave B and C separated and get close D to B a spark apear betwen B and D and at A point.
If I turn the LV circuit on the lamp bulb (A) appears be "shorted" (from somewhere not having clue ??!) and lights on constantly. The capacitor doesn't seem to be charging/discharging. If spark occurs at point A no "bangs" gets out on the seconds spark.
Thanks!
@Xbox,
I was reviewing your pressure tests, and i'm curious why you did not achieve better results with the new plug,,,,
I know your new jig is larger, more volume and you said it was leaking air.....Have you done more pressure tests??
Is the jig still leaking??...........Were did you get your adjustable spark gap......
Thanks ,
HV
@HV:
I know your new jig is larger, more volume and you said it was leaking air.....
My last vid was with the old jig, the one that leaked was the old jig, it leaked because of the bolts in the side....MY new jig is much smaller. I made a new one because i needed a 3rd port for adding air. The original jig had 2 bolts taped through it to make the spark gap.
Have you done more pressure tests??
Not yet....
Is the jig still leaking??
yes...but i made a new one, so now its not....LOLÂ ;D
Were did you get your adjustable spark gap......
AutoZone
The marine spark plug does not provide the same power a 2 bolts ground to points (pointing at each other) With the marine plug in the jig and about 30psi, i get very poor results. So i will drill and tap the new jig and try the 2 bolts again...in the new jig
@xbox,
I think building a test cylinder the same size as ( or close ) to the test motor you will be using after the circuit is perfected, this would give more accurate test results.........just a thought , since you will not be using 2 ss bolts in the motor, do you see a good reason to proceed in pressure testing using bolts???
Mahalo,
HV
@HV:
since you will not be using 2 ss bolts in the motor, do you see a good reason to proceed in pressure testing using bolts???
What makes you think i wont be using them in the motor? ;)
Yes i see good reason....PROOF OF CONCEPT! And i just fun!!! The marine plug and a normal plug did not have the guts to move the gauge a few psi...the bolts was 40psi +.....do you see a reason not to continue using SS bolts? Soon i will try my hand at making my own plug.... it will look kinda like this....
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.overunity.com%2Findex.php%3Faction%3Ddlattach%3Btopic%3D3977.0%3Battach%3D25346&hash=54b45b8f7eb48c11021a1cd4a2dd72d9c73a8165)
I didnt want to go the rout of making a plug.....but i guess i might just try one...or even a firestorm.
I have many other ideas in the works too....we will see what the best direction will be....
@Xbox,
I see... That makes perfect sense, please proceed ......What size and make of engine will you be using to conduct your trials after circuit is complete ?? .............Do you think it is appropriate to have a test cylinder close to the size of the motor cylinder that you will test the completed circuit on??????
Best Regards,
HV
Quote from: happyvalley808 on August 11, 2008, 08:39:29 PM
@Xbox,
I see... That makes perfect sense, please proceed ......What size and make of engine will you be using to conduct your trials after circuit is complete ?? .............Do you think it is appropriate to have a test cylinder close to the size of the motor cylinder that you will test the completed circuit on??????
Best Regards,
HV
Its a B&S 14hp i think....the new test jig is a 3/4 Tee fitting, so the volume of that is the size of the jig. I am not sure as to the volume of the head of the B&S.............
Good news for anyone wanting to know what cap to use!!
I just got these in today and they work fine! And they are stupid cheap ;D
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=150221264168&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=005
@xbox,
So using one cap will do the trick?
HV
Quote from: happyvalley808 on August 12, 2008, 06:25:18 PM
@xbox,
So using one cap will do the trick?
HV
For now, yes!
Always room for improvement ;D
@All,
I've found this in "The Plasma Dictionary".......
Bootstrap Current -
Definition: Currents driven in toroidal devices by neo-classical processes (see entry). They may amount to a substantial fraction of the net current in a tokamak reactor, thus lengthening the pulse time or decreasing the power needed for current drive.
http://plasmadictionary.llnl.gov/terms.lasso?-MaxRecords=1&-SkipRecords=12&-SortField=Term&-SortOrder=ascending&-SortField=Term&-SortOrder=ascending&-SortField=Term&-SortOrder=ascending&-SortField=Term&-SortOrder=ascending&-SortField=Term&-SortOrder=ascending&-SortField=Term&-SortOrder=ascending&-SortField=Term&-SortOrder=ascending&-SortField=Term&-SortOrder=ascending&-SortField=Term&-SortOrder=ascending&-SortField=Term&-SortOrder=ascending&-SortField=Term&-SortOrder=ascending&-SortField=Term&-SortOrder=ascending&-SortField=Term&-SortOrder=ascending&-SortField=Term&-SortOrder=ascending&-SortField=Term&-SortOrder=ascending&ABC=B&page=detail
Hi guys!
I'm not trying to distract anyone but take a look at this pdf of the Bojce electrolizer.
I find some interesting info that can be affecting us...if we tying to modify the timing on a one cylinder 4 stroke engine.
look at bottom of page 38 under "Waste Spark"
http://pesn.com/2007/09/29/9500450_BobBoyce_Electrolizer_Plans/d9.pdf
cap 70,
i have been reading this board for a while and i havent heard any more news from you getting your motor bike running on water. Have you given up on the diode chain??
I feel we need to go back to what we KNOW runs and get several more of our own running and then try to modify to make it better.
I have not seen one other video other than cap 70 with a car running. There was one that had 4 light bulbs flashing but i never figured out who's it was. I believe SR1 is a fraud and i dont think his vid is legit. I know for a fact if i got my engine running i would post CLEAR vids showing EXACTLY how i done it. That SR1 is a load of crap.
atlasman
@tiltfull
What happens when back fire comes in GEET plasma system. We want to work on this system, Dose it improve performance If we use plasma spark on engine ? How much is fuel consumption ? ???
Running engine on 100% water is difficult for real application, So we are planning to start with real application of plasma spark plug, hydrogen booster and GEET system to reduce fuel consumption....
My bike silencer is damaged so I am planning to install plasma spark plug and geet system on it.
Hydrogen booster installation work is going on on my car.
@Cap70,
I have watched many GEET videos and i have not observed any back fire....From what i understand the "fuel" is under vacuume, but I think a flash back arrester just like that used on WFC would work as a safety feature.....
Let me know your thoughts....
Best Regards,
HV
@Cap70
Well the geet system...
I know someone who had a backfire he sad that his bubbler swelled up, but it was no kaboom.
Now if you feed vapors like I did on my videos that you want to use some type of backfire arrestor!
I had built one, the kind that has bronze whole in it.
But it was choking the system down. It was to much resistance, so instead sucking the fumes in, it was just sucking air from the air intake port.
Also I have serius doubts about using this type of arestor on the geet system because the oily fumes probably would condensate on the whole and cause failure one way or another.
So I brought a swing check valve in home depot it has 1/2" npt female ports and it's made of brass.
This valve is very sensitive! I was unable to blow threw any air from the reverse side!
So I was using that on the geet at my last run.
Backfire can happen! Specially if you messing with the timing!
What you guys think about my previous post?
Any idea how to get rid of the waste spark?
Once I tried to run the geet with the diode circuit but it was not running good.
I gotta say that the mover was not in perfect shape that could be the problem two.
I personally never tested the fuel consumption but I was told that it's the same.
I have a hard time to believe that!
Is your bike is a two or four cycle?
QuoteWhat you guys think about my previous post?
Any idea how to get rid of the waste spark?
Once I tried to run the geet with the diode circuit but it was not running good.
I gotta say that the mover was not in perfect shape that could be the problem two.
I personally never tested the fuel consumption but I was told that it's the same.
I have a hard time to believe that!
Is your bike is a two or four cycle?
My bike is four stroke. During hydrogen test every time when I kick it immediately back fire comes and exploded bubbler...
For removal of waste spark this circuit is suitable, As per concept its not having any problem , But practically its not working, may be it need schmitt trigger at input side. But It requires setting every time when power is given, It may fire at only exhaust stroke .
@cap70
I don't getting this drawing!
Can you draw it up differently?
???
For those that wanted to see the marine plug blast...here are some images....this is the best i could do ;D
Xbox,
Great photo's, That's an awsome looking plasma flame.......Can you make note of the different effects observed from this plug, compared to a regular plug.........You da man!
Thanks,
HV
@ anyone
I looking for a voltage doubler circuit!
Would like to go from 110 to 220!
Can anyone help?
Thanks!
Quote from: tiltfulll on August 15, 2008, 06:04:01 PM
@ anyone
I looking for a voltage doubler circuit!
Would like to go from 110 to 220!
Can anyone help?
Thanks!
This is what i use.....
Thanks Hacker!
Here is something interesting..... notice the images below. The white one is form a normal plug, and the purple on is from the marine plug.
The frame grabs are from 2 videos taken just a few mins apart...same setup, same voltage, same camera.....
Why would one be white and one purple???
All shots from both vid are the same result! Also notice the marine plug has MUCH more spread!
@tiltfulll:
No Prob
@XboxHacker
Great spark!! ;D I wondered which one is hotter, blue or purple?? ???
@Capacitor70
Thanks for sharing the circuit... ;D ;D
@All
Hi y'all!! I just replicated Capacitor70 circuit design, but I'm having misfire problem... :-\
Any ideas?? :D
;D Thanks!! ;D
Quote from: lon92 on August 16, 2008, 04:21:04 PM
@All
Hi y'all!! I just replicated Capacitor70 circuit design, but I'm having misfire problem... :-\
Any ideas?? :D
;D Thanks!! ;D
Hi, there, I've managed to replicate the cap70's circuit too finaly.
Currently there is no visible misfires at my setup, but there are there most probably. The misfires occurs because HV not occuring at the second spark plug or not enough energy for the big capacitor. For the first i recommend to enclose the distance of the electrodes of the second spark plug most near each other. For the second - how much charge can take your capacitor (farads, voltage) ? Try adding more bulbs for it in order to charge faster.
I am using 470uF/400V and with 150W bulb there are not visible misfires. I am thinking about using powerful mosfet transistors instead of bulbs, so charging wil ll be more accurate and faster, but controlling them is still question to me, as well the number. I've calculated that for the my capacitor (the 470uf one) to make the engine idle I need 250W source for the capacitor.
Talking about something like that:
@vlindos
Thanks for the idea... ;D I will try it... ;)
I will post soon!! ;D
Quote from: vlindos on August 16, 2008, 04:50:38 PM
Hi, there, I've managed to replicate the cap70's circuit too finaly.
CONGRATULATIONS!!!!! ;D
Spark plug eating problem is solved or not with marine spark plug ?
@Xbox,
Thanks for showing the different effects from the two plugs........ purple and white flames that is very interesting, have you noticed any other differences other than what you stated, faster, brighter...............Thanks
HV
@Cap70,
Have you been able to do more tests with the coil circuit ????
Regards,
HV
I have not taken more test with coil circuit, But I have build small DC to DC converter for efficient plasma spark generation no need of bulb. circuit is for bike and capable to charge 30uF capacitance at 300Volts.
White spark is not useful it is cold electricity and maximum energy goes into making bright light.
Purple spark gives high temperature.
How to get rid of spark plug eating problem ?
Which insulating material (high temperature) is suitable for making spark plug at home ?
@vlindos
Put capacitor of same value in series, (instead of mosfet put capacitor) to remove bulb, but you get half voltage across capacitor. MAKE SURE POLARITY
@Cap70,
I have a marine plug like Xbox, "Champion L76V" this is the plug giving purple spark...I'm waiting for caps and I will replicate....
Xbox says the marine plug fires three times faster .....You can make one by cutting the cathode "L" off your plug, then file the center anode level .....they look like they will last alot longer....Did you post the DC-DC circuit ?
Quote from: capacitor70 on August 18, 2008, 12:38:56 AM
I have not taken more test with coil circuit, But I have build small DC to DC converter for efficient plasma spark generation no need of bulb. circuit is for bike and capable to charge 30uF capacitance at 300Volts.
White spark is not useful it is cold electricity and maximum energy goes into making bright light.
Purple spark gives high temperature.
How to get rid of spark plug eating problem ?
Which insulating material (high temperature) is suitable for making spark plug at home ?
@vlindos
Put capacitor of same value in series, (instead of mosfet put capacitor) to remove bulb, but you get half voltage across capacitor. MAKE SURE POLARITY
Thanks cap70 for the ideas. I would go with them soon after I made the test with 2stoke engine.
At the moment the capacitor charging seems to be fast and accurate enough. See my video: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=kVXKF_7ALNg
Btw there's no spark plug eating at my setup - how much time spark was running before you notice a damage on the spark plug?
Another question to cap70 finally as I did understood the coil circuit I understood the Tesla switch solution you proposed. It's look like very good idea. How far did you reach there ? Using my very limit EE knowledge the only problem is the switcher which should "carry" the big charge using transistor won't happen (?) using relay might be not fast enough.
Did you see this site (its gather info from thread from this forum):
http://drspark.com/idea003.php
@Cap70:
Th marine plug will ware eventually.
I am going to make the DC -DC circuit also soon. Is it fast enough for charging?
@HV:
Just cutting off the ground electrode wont work very well, not as well as the plug thats made for it. The gap might be a little too big. I have done it, but it misfires too much.
Is it fast enough for charging?
Yes, circuit is operated at 40Khz frequency it charges 330uF capacitor fast enough as fast as we can push the switch,
but the transformer I am using is not designed for such high current it becomes very hot immediately with 330uF capacitor,
But it is working best with 10 to 30uF capacitor.
I made mistake in selection of mosfet, mosfet must have high frequency operation with MOSFET driver otherwise gate capacitance of MOSFET creates problem at high frequency heating of mosfet is observed...circuit is same as previously posted.
I have taken trials with TL494 it gives control on duty cycle and output voltage, use of TL494 circuit gives more advantages, but It is giving me trouble.
TL494 advantages
1. Charging of capacitor when needed.
2. Maintains constant voltage. regulated output.
3. Load regulation and line regulation is possible.
4. Once the capacitor charged to desired voltage it goes into very low current consumption level. (When engine is off)
5. Soft start.
At present I am using CD4047 for DC to DC converter
@XboxHacker
Hey X, did your voltage doubler causes any misfire?? :-[
If not, what about voltage tripler??
I wondered what will happen if the voltage is multipled to 2300V... ::)
What will happen?? :-\
Quote from: lon92 on August 18, 2008, 02:12:09 PM
@XboxHacker
Hey X, did your voltage doubler causes any misfire?? :-[
If not, what about voltage tripler??
I wondered what will happen if the voltage is multipled to 2300V... ::)
What will happen?? :-\
No misfires. ;D
Triple? HMMMM I think it would eat the plug faster....i would like to keep my setup around 300VDC, But if anyone is willing to try, go ahead...lol
First off, my biggest cap is 400V....so 2300V, might not work...plus it would probably would take a long time to charge. Plus it would kill you instantly!
I am working on a setup like Caps to charge the cap, its a DC-DC converter. Is going to be adjustable freq from 2kH to 100kH....got my parts on order ;D
@Xbox,
I've just received the caps, thank you ...i will start building tonight....If there's any thing I can send you from hawaii let me know....
Regards,
HV
@everyone:
If anyone is interested in Stan Meyer workings....please view this post and tell me what you see in the scope shot.......
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3079.msg122159.html#msg122159
@HV:
Like the note said...just "pay it forward" ;D
@Xbox,
I will do as the note say's........Nice lawton PWM....
HV
Quote from: happyvalley808 on August 18, 2008, 07:17:07 PM
@Xbox,
I will do as the note say's........Nice lawton PWM....
HV
Thanx!!! ;D
yep just managed to finish a modified version of cap70 design a have got a working unit with regular plasma discharges.This design is great ,no diodes ,running off wall ac for the lv circuit ,just was a matter of getting the right combo of caps,in the right size/rating.This circuit has an ignition switch and manually controlled points setup -- Now the next step those marine plugs and a switching device for the [points] and onto a b&s motor . i would like to give cap70 a gold medal for his efforts,the key to his design is the cross over coil and the way you build it ,do a good jod and you get the big bang every time
Off topic
I am installing hydrogen booster on my car first task to monitor behavior and fuel consumption of engine with different conditions then modification to O2 sensor.
for monitoring fuel consumption I am making fuel injector, MAP, TPS, Engine RPM, Speed data logger,
I am making this type of system for industries first time for myself...
here is performance of starter motor at -10C with diesel engine.
ok i have experience with hho boosters and they are good and easy to use on diesels here is good link--http://waterfuelforall.com/forum/index.php?topic=328.0 (http://waterfuelforall.com/forum/index.php?topic=328.0) regarding your circuit i have good comments the wattage size of resistor [ bulb] on ac does matter as it controls the firing of the points /switch - less watts and miss fire - more watts = regular fire on plug -- can u tell me why you are interested in pwm and controling frequencies regarding plasma-----------p
regarding your circuit i have good comments the wattage size of resistor [ bulb] on ac does matter as it controls the firing of the points /switch - less watts and miss fire - more watts = regular fire on plug -- can u tell me why you are interested in pwm and controling frequencies regarding plasma
Bulbs to prevent short circuit, no relation with miss fire. only difference is charging level of capacitor depend on bulb wattage.
PWM and controlling of frequency is for DC to DC converter no direct relation with plasma.
Here is DC-DC converter with 6uF capacitor.
Make sure rectifier diode must be and use high frequency transistor or mosfet with mosfet driver.
1. BA159 for low current (low value capacitor)
2. BY399 for high current ( high value of capacitor)
Initially use bulb to protect mosfet and transformer. small 25Watt 12V bulb is connected between center tap of transformer and +12V.
@capacitor70
Very nice pics. Do you use CD4047 IC like my attached schematic? To protect MOSFET we can connect a resistor serially with a capacitor across primary coil. I suppose you took the transformer from a computer PSU?
Thanks!
Very nice pics. Do you use CD4047 IC like my attached schematic?
Yes
To protect MOSFET we can connect a resistor serially with a capacitor across primary coil.
It's not necessary If coil turns ratio and operating frequency is proper, MOSFETs which I used are having low frequency operation, It works best at 1KHz but transformer required for this is having big size.
Higher the frequency lower the number of turns.
I suppose you took the transformer from a computer PSU?
No, Old TV
Here is some images of my latest coil...i bought the secondary wire on eBay, its rated @ 1000V...so i will make tests and let everyone know if the wire is good to use.(in case you were looking to buy some wire)
First image is the secondary
Second image is the primary on top (its transformer wire form a microwave)
@xbox,
Thanks for sharing your coil pics, what gauge is the wire ?
Regards,
HV
The wire from ebay is 22ga solid.
Check this vid out
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YR7eIbL1Ffc
Simple simulator ;D, for testing circuits without investing money....
http://www.linear.com/designtools/software/switchercad.jsp
Quote from: capacitor70 on August 20, 2008, 12:20:19 PM
Simple simulator ;D, for testing circuits without investing money....
http://www.linear.com/designtools/software/switchercad.jsp
Thanks for the link Cap. This will really help using different designs.
Quote from: xbox hacker on August 19, 2008, 08:56:52 PM
Check this vid out
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YR7eIbL1Ffc
Did you check out this guys website?
It shocked me a little .
There is a list of features that his car has
The last feature on the list is
Water Fuel
made from S1r plans.
The site says that there is still some problems with regulating the power.
He has my vote for the prettiest watercar on the planet
:)
http://www.rolls-royce.150m.com/mycar/indexen.html
gary
Quote from: resonanceman on August 20, 2008, 04:58:18 PM
Did you check out this guys website?
It shocked me a little .
There is a list of features that his car has
The last feature on the list is
Water Fuel
made from S1r plans.
The site says that there is still some problems with regulating the power.
He has my vote for the prettiest watercar on the planet
:)
http://www.rolls-royce.150m.com/mycar/indexen.html
gary
This video is posted by the same guy.
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=HivxQN_G8tA&feature=user
A Japanese company is now doing OFFICIAL test on a water powered car .
gary
Over Unity ;D
Simulated Tesla Switch, Useful for plasma generation and electrolysis. ;D
Over Unity is real
Frequency and load resistance matters.
USE SAME LOAD R5 AND R6
ALSO USE HIGHER CAPACITANCE 4700uF TO 10000uF
Glowing lamp is R6
Dim lamp is R5
capacitor used are 1000uF
and driving circuit using CD4047
@cap70 ,
So you only have to charge it one time and it will keep running ? What voltage are the caps?
HV
QuoteSo you only have to charge it one time and it will keep running ? What voltage are the caps?
This is first running I have tried to remove or increase R5, it turns off R6 lamp. It needs little charge to keep it running
Four times less charge is required than direct charging.
circuit is operated at 12V.
I did simulation with 4700uF and practically I am using 1000uF capacitor so I am getting near double output than input.
In simulation with 1000uF it gives 2.5 times more output.
may be It is possible to keep it running......not tested or simulated
WOW...Great work Capacitor70!!!! :D :D :D :D
Good Job Capacitor70 !! ;)
There is some schematics .Perhasps serve us :
There is about a CDI that early mentioned in another post (Silicon Magazine CDI) .Note that the DC-DC inverter have a peak control with serials DZ 75v :
http://www.divshare.com/download/4816462-7e5
http://www.divshare.com/download/4816468-d22
http://www.divshare.com/download/4816528-ced
http://www.divshare.com/download/4816473-12d
And there is an interesting note about igbt's :
http://www.gavner.se/files/igbt.pdf
http://www.gavner.se/html/ignition.htm
Mosfet I used for Tesla Switch are P55NF (it is having approx 50V 55Amps rating) and CD4047 with 2uF capacitor and 50K pot for frequency adjustment, capacitors are of 1000uF
input current is 85mAmps and output current is 122mAmps flowing through R6
I have tried circuit with bridge rectifier to make feed back so that it can become self runner. But It dosen't work when I put rectifier at R6.
May be initial starting is not overunity and it start slowly and becomes overunity after few mSec, bridge rectifier may be blocking initial start up voltage...
Use of transformer to pick up the voltage from R6 is also not works because inductance of transformer blocks current flow from one capacitor to another...
need more research... ::)
My friend given me
3300uF 350V four capacitors
and three IGBT
SKM200GB123D
having rating of 200Amps at 1200Volts
I am little scared to use such high rating devices....capacitor size is 6 inch taller and 3 inch diameter :-\
Hello Capacitor70,
in order to measure exactly what is going on you have to replace the lamps with 10 Ohm - resitors, because lapms change inner resistance dependent of their thermal condition.
A red-glowing lamp at a higher voltage can have less power-consumption than the same lamp a lower voltage.
Please look here :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incandescent_lamp (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incandescent_lamp)
and scoll down to paragraph : Electrical characteristics
Quotation :
Electrical characteristics
Incandescent lamps are nearly pure resistive loads with a power factor of 1. This means the actual power consumed (in watts) and the apparent power (in volt-amperes) are equal.The actual resistance of the filament is temperature dependent. The cold resistance of tungsten filament lamps is about 1/15 the resistance when the lamp is lit. For example, a 100 watt, 120 volt lamp has a resistance of 144 ohms when lit, but the cold resistance is much lower (about 9.5 ohms) [32] [33]. Since incandescent lamps are resistive loads, simple triac dimmers can be used to control brightness. Electrical contacts may carry a "T" rating symbol indicating that they are designed to control circuits with the high inrush current characteristic of tungsten lamps. For a 100-watt 120 volt general service lamp, the current stabilizes in about 0.10 seconds, and the lamp reaches 90% of its full brightness after about 0.13 seconds.
Sorry, but no proof of overunity at this point.
It is a long known trap which many inventors have fallen into.
Kator
@Kator01
You are right about resistance change with temperature.
Practical tests:
I have taken test with 150Ohm resistance overunity is there but less with higher resistance.
With 10 Ohm resistance Only R6 become hot and R5 stays cool,
then next test is with series resistance from source power supply But same result no heating observed at input but at output heating is much more. ::)
Simulation:
In simulation same results are visible in graphs with higher resistance overunity goes down. with less value resistance overunty goes up.
simulation shows voltage rises with time but in experiment it stays at certain point may be it is increasing at very slow rate.
@vlindos
Hey vlindos, I've tried your idea about decreasing gap size and bigger caps.......... 8)
It still misfiring very very badly... :-[
The result that I get is if the caps is higher, bigger spark is observed... :D
And if I lower the gap size, the misfire rate increase... :o
Any ideas?? :D
Anyway, thanks!! ;D ;D
Quote from: lon92 on August 25, 2008, 08:29:27 AM
@vlindos
Hey vlindos, I've tried your idea about decreasing gap size and bigger caps.......... 8)
It still misfiring very very badly... :-[
The result that I get is if the caps is higher, bigger spark is observed... :D
And if I lower the gap size, the misfire rate increase... :o
Any ideas?? :D
Anyway, thanks!! ;D ;D
I was talking about setting up more bulbs for the bigger capacitors (not adding bigger charge capacitors). Are the misfires in the same rate when the capacitors circuit is off (ie. only HV spark) ?
@vlindos
Whoops!! Sorry for the misunderstanding!! My bad... :D
The spark is normal without the Capacitor70 coil. :D (Maybe the my coil is bad?? ???)
Now, I'm using a ferrite from a 4" speaker (the round magnet)...
Any advice on building coil?? ;D
Thanks!! ;D ;D
@ion92
the coil must be ok if you get any sparks on the first spark plug (using the cap70 coil circuit). might be a problem if it has too much turns on the coil. how much do you have? another thing is the energy coming for the capacitors series - how much of them you had putted on ? can you put a picture of your setup?
@everyone
I have a problem with the explosion thing. It was not enough for moving my engine's piston down. Today I was trying to increase/observe the explosion effect of the spark/water, so added more capacitors (96J in total). Instead I had made welding machine :) . capacitor70 told me the he also was unable to move down the piston using screwing the spark plug at TDC. I was thinking it might be because of compression problem... (because he had been able to get engine running). Also Xbox pointed me to allcanadian video where he was able to move the piston but with compression (moving manually the engine wheel to TDC). Unfortunately it apeared that the old 2stroke engine I bought was with crannied head. So I am going to try my new welding machine ;D
good luck to every one!
@All
Thanks vlindos for your help... ;D
My coil is 20:50 ::)
Any ideas anyone??
Quote from: lon92 on August 25, 2008, 02:44:14 PM
@All
Thanks vlindos for your help... ;D
My coil is 20:50 ::)
Any ideas anyone??
Try a coil with 12:38...thats what i use :)
Is you coil toroidal or linear core? I found that linear worked much better for me. ::)
Also your misfire might be due to arcing inside of the secondaries...turn off all your lights so its good and dark and fire the primary, look for arcing INSIDE the coil.
Here is a video I did of a marble in a close fitting plastic tube with plasma arc and water. For an ignition system (high voltage) I am using a 1980 vintage GM HEI ignition coil powered by a strobe light discharge. The low voltage side is a 120 volt mains voltage doubler circuit. As you will see the energy to drive the marble out of the cylinder is not very predictable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzpsOdllv2w
Enjoy,
RD
Seems like there might be an air fuel ratio for the water, too much it doesnt do anything, but when the right amount is there, boom.
Quote from: Super God on August 25, 2008, 07:43:54 PM
Seems like there might be an air fuel ratio for the water, too much it doesnt do anything, but when the right amount is there, boom.
Yes, good observation. I'm thinking actual engine compression may also have a quenching effect on the plasma. Quenching at a precise point in time may help release more of what we are looking for (big boom) ;D.
RD
On the compression idea, if the spark is fired after TDC, the pressure in the will be lower than at TDC as the volume inside the sylinder is expanding...but....( and this is where my mechanical engineering knowledge is stretched ) even though the volume inside the cylinder is increasing, as the valves are shut, the cyclinder is a closed system.........um....its not a vacuum, but I'm not sure what the effect of "stretching" a volume of water vapour would be in these conditions as to whether it would do enough mechanical work on the water enough to start breaking the H20 bonds.....
@capacitor70 : some interesting links :
Inverter with mosfet and a TL494 closed loop !!:
http://www.richieburnett.co.uk/sstate.html
theory and schematic about Tesla Coil:
http://www.richieburnett.co.uk/parts.html#schematic
@capacitor70 (and all guys ): some interesting links :
Inverter with mosfet and a TL494 in closed loop !!:
http://www.richieburnett.co.uk/sstate.html
theory and schematic about Tesla Coil:
http://www.richieburnett.co.uk/parts.html#schematic
homepage:
http://www.richieburnett.co.uk/tesla.shtml
author e-mail :
tesla2@richieburnett.co.uk
Anyone can send an invitation to him to participate whit this project ?? ;D ;D ;D
Greetings all.........
take a look at this.... a plasma circuit (Tero design) running a 4 stroke motorcycle..
plasma demo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5zh12n0lEg
engine running (smooth!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXFMIfcOo_I
no, not water.... gasoline on plasma
Congrats to revizal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
S1r has just released new circuit. I uploaded here http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=system1001ji4.jpg for your viewing.
Its another very unclear diagram........
Hey Guys!!
I've just try your Capacitor70, XboxHacker and Vlindos suggestion:
i) 8:24 & 12:38 Ratio Coil
ii) Toroid and linear coil
iii) Smaller spark gap size
This is what I found:
*Only use ONLY ferrite as core (NOT nail, steel washer, magnet, steel rod, pipes, etc) ;)
*Don't use magnet as ferrite core (This is the main cause of my misfire!! :o)
*Linear coil works best (Its prevent from leaks) :D
*Use smaller coil turn, like 12:38 (I'm using 20:50 before :P)
*Silicon Sealant is a good insulator ???
Hopes this help!! ;D ;D
It's Works!! Thank y'all!! ;D ;D
Quote from: capacitor70 on September 01, 2008, 06:43:46 AM
Its another very unclear diagram........
AMEN!!! But would you expect anything different??
Quote from: lon92 on September 01, 2008, 07:06:55 AM
Hey Guys!!
I've just try your Capacitor70, XboxHacker and Vlindos suggestion:
i) 8:24 & 12:38 Ratio Coil
ii) Toroid and linear coil
iii) Smaller spark gap size
This is what I found:
*Only use ONLY ferrite as core (NOT nail, steel washer, magnet, steel rod, pipes, etc)Â ;)
*Don't use magnet as ferrite core (This is the main cause of my misfire!! :o)
*Linear coil works best (Its prevent from leaks)Â Â :D
*Use smaller coil turn, like 12:38 (I'm using 20:50 before :P)
*Silicon Sealant is a good insulator ???
Hopes this help!! ;D ;D
It's Works!! Thank y'all!! ;D ;D
Great job! I found the linear had less leakage too ;D
so... who's got an engine running on this now? Besides S1R9A9M9?
Hello All.
I've been lurking from the beginning of this thread.
I would simply like to see a detailed schematic and a parts list with part numbers/values.
Like has been done with the Boyce unit.
This seems much easier to do.
Anyone capable and willing?
With details... I can replicate it. But I don't have the knowledge to fill in the blanks.
I really appreciate the efforts put forth here.
Thank Ya'll
h2odiesel
Greetings all
This is my first post here, and a have a few questions.
Here is a video of my set up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqSq3jVlMHA
so far we have built a pair of firestorm spark plugs and we have put together a combination of the Tero water explosion circuit and the JCBX circuit.
We cant get the engine to run however, so i am curious about a few things, especially from capacitor70 or s1r9a9m9
- what is the best air to water mixture
-what is the optimal way to bring the water into the engine
-what is the optimal timing of the engine
-what is the optimal voltage coming from the inverter, and end result through the diodes ( as diodes to consume some voltage, there is a voltage drop when using certain diodes)
- is there a good way to charge the water before bringing it in to the motor, with magnets, or ionization or joe cell etc
any more help or comments would be great
thanks for all the good work everyone!
Hello Destino1320,
Welcome to the Machine.
This my 3rd post? I'm mostly a lurker
Questions
Have you run the engine on gasoline with the modifications?
What kind of Distributor did ya use?
I would like more info on how you adapted it to the engine.
Variable timing would be very useful for me... I'm running a 10 hp Briggs on Woodgas and it would be much better if I could advance the timing (woodgas has a very slow flame front)
I'm guessing you may want get the engine running and then transition to the charged water...
For example when I'm running Woodgas... I start the engine with propane (I use propane a torch with orifice removed) let it warm up. Then I ween the engine off the propane while I open the Woodgas valve. It works very well.
I figured this out while running HHO on a small motor... By transitioning to HHO from propane I didn't have to worry so much about waste spark and blowing up bubblers. :)
If I could advance the timing I might not need the propane start.
I believe, in you're case retarding the timing as much as possible before trying to transition to water might be helpful.
You might find this interesting, you were asking about charging water... This is doing just that, don't know if it will be useful to ya.
I would like get my hands on one... and see if helps water go bang!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evouyVOvO-Q
Good work guys and much luck to ya.
h2odiesel
Limit less power coming soon...... ;D
under test......
Hi Guys!!
I've just install Capacitor70 Coil in my father car... ;)
I tried to it run on gasoline...
It WORKS!! ;D ;D But, it's misfire very BADLY!!
Before turn the inverter on, it was about 1100rpm...
After turning on the inverter, it jump to more than 4000rpm!! ;D ;D ;D
But as I said before, its misfire badly, very very badly!! :( :(
Any ideas guys??
After solving the misfire problem, I will try to run it on water... ::)
I'm very happy now!!
THANKS GUYS!! Especially to who replying to my post!! :) ;) :D ;D
@Ion92,
How many turns do you have on your coil ? did it miss fire before you installed it in the engine ?
HV
@lon92:
You may need to adjust the primary gap size to find a sweet spot.
REF: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=PtGd3sm5BZY
@cap70:
I CANT WAIT!!!! ;D
Quote from: xbox hacker on September 02, 2008, 04:57:28 PM
@lon92:
You may need to adjust the primary gap size to find a sweet spot.
REF: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=PtGd3sm5BZY
@cap70:
I CANT WAIT!!!! ;D
Me either.
Quote from: xbox hacker on September 01, 2008, 10:31:31 AM
AMEN!!! But would you expect anything different??
Not really, it's pretty much expected. My sig says it all.
Hey X-box and everyone else , great job and thank you for sharing your work.
this is my first post and i have replicated CAP70's circuit. i am just wondering if you are getting the 2 plugs to fire plasma or just the secondary one. If yes, what do i have to do to get the primary one fire plasma.
thank you very much
Big E
Quote from: xbox hacker on September 02, 2008, 04:57:28 PM
@lon92:
You may need to adjust the primary gap size to find a sweet spot.
REF: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=PtGd3sm5BZY
@cap70:
I CANT WAIT!!!! ;D
Quote from: happyvalley808 on September 02, 2008, 03:57:37 PM
@Ion92,
How many turns do you have on your coil ? did it miss fire before you installed it in the engine ?
HV
@HappyValley808My coil ratio is 12:38... As suggested by XboxHacker... ;)
In my bench test, the coil works perfectly... ;D
Its misfire very very very badly only when I install it in the car... :(
Quote from: xbox hacker on September 02, 2008, 04:57:28 PM
@lon92:
You may need to adjust the primary gap size to find a sweet spot.
REF: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=PtGd3sm5BZY
@cap70:
I CANT WAIT!!!! ;D
@XboxHacker
Nice vid.. ;D
I tried to adjust it, it works better now... ;D Thanks...
But its still misfiring badly... :(
Now, it has a new symptom...
The plasma wont spark if the engine is lower than 2500rpm.. This mean, it only sparking normal spark... :o
But after the engine is over 2500rpm, the plasma start to spark... ;D
The plasma spark is extremely increase engine rpm... ;D ;D Very very high...
The exhaust is very clean... :D
I will post some pics soon... ;) ;)
@Capacitor70
I will wait for you!!
;D
@lon92
When i tried the plasma on my engine (on gasoline), it simply runs smoother, no more rpm. But it was the diode setup. (link : http://sdch2o.free.fr/vrac/plasmaSpark/essais/ )
If your engine rpm rise up of about 3000 rpm it is a real good news !! Is it injection or carburetor engine ?
Just a thought about your misfiring : In a car ignition, you have already a lost spark in the distributor. So I think you can put the cap70 system without the lost sparkplug. BUT this way, no way to adjust the gap. Just try and tell us.
Do you put lamp to limit current in the circuit ? Have you got a picture of your setup ?
Best regards
Remoi
@lon92
Can you draw how you connected Cap's circuit to car. I haven't tested with a car yet.
Thank you.
Test Results
1. Initially I have used relays instead of MOSFET. And relays worked for few seconds during this battery voltage raised to 12.41V from 12.37V.
2. Now I am having isolated power supply for mosfet drivers.
3. Batteries used are 12V 65Amps.
4. Transformer is 5Amps 12Volts for inverter.
5. CFL 15Watt as load.
6. It works like efficient inverter.
7. Battery drain is observed with MOSFET circuit, (relay circuit dosen't work more than few seconds.)
8. Battery voltage drops 0.03Volts per hour with 15Watt CFL.
Please suggest some thing.... (no limit less power :()
This is my first post, that is because I am not smart enough to know, what to ask, but I have a program that helps me with circuits and run them on the computer. It is called Electronics Workbench it is from Interactive Image Technologies Ltd. In Canada. It is like using a test board but not making all those connection and changes. It also lets you turn the the test on and see what is happening. I haven't been able to simulate a spark but I am sure there is something would work in it. I just thought that I would share this information with you all because your wellness to share is amazing that in this day and age their are still great people out there that are more interested in the helping than making the all might dollar.
Now, it has a new symptom...
The plasma wont spark if the engine is lower than 2500rpm.. This mean, it only sparking normal spark... Shocked
I think you are experiencing dynamic compression reduction. In other words, below 2500 RPM on your engine, the energy required to create the "explosion" is greater than you are providing. To confirm this:
1. Loosen the spark plug at start-up until you hear a "squishing" sound, when turning the engine over.
2. Connect the ignition system and start the engine.
3. DON'T rev. the engine with the loose plug. You could strip the threads.
If the plasma fires at start-up, you will have to increase the discharge of the spark for it to work <2500 RPM.
Rgds.
D
Quote from: Dread on September 06, 2008, 07:57:09 AM
Now, it has a new symptom...
The plasma wont spark if the engine is lower than 2500rpm.. This mean, it only sparking normal spark... Shocked
I think you are experiencing dynamic compression reduction. In other words, below 2500 RPM on your engine, the energy required to create the "explosion" is greater than you are providing.
If the plasma fires at start-up, you will have to increase the discharge of the spark for it to work <2500 RPM.
high voltage travels easily in vacuum, Under pressure you need more voltage on plug to get it work.....
Consider that in a DIS ignition system, half of the pulses are positive and the other half are negative. This could be the reason for the misfire. Positive pulses require more voltage to bridge the gap than negative ones do.
Quote from: capacitor70 on September 03, 2008, 12:55:38 PM
Test Results
1. Initially I have used relays instead of MOSFET. And relays worked for few seconds during this battery voltage raised to 12.41V from 12.37V.
2. Now I am having isolated power supply for mosfet drivers.
3. Batteries used are 12V 65Amps.
4. Transformer is 5Amps 12Volts for inverter.
5. CFL 15Watt as load.
6. It works like efficient inverter.
7. Battery drain is observed with MOSFET circuit, (relay circuit dosen't work more than few seconds.)
8. Battery voltage drops 0.03Volts per hour with 15Watt CFL.
Please suggest some thing.... (no limit less power :()
Hi capacitor70. I am very glad you are continuing your experiments. But let me do some remarks
1) I assume you are talking about the Tesla Switch here
2) Why are you using CFL as load why not the discharge gap as resistance thing?
3) AFAIK Tesla switch isn't a overunity thing. It just gets the wasted current after the load back in to the battery - which is good enough.
4) You are observing power drain using MOSFET design may be because of the higher frequency of the mosfets operation against the relays. So there is in the end more power wasted on the LOAD. What is your frequency for MOSFETs and what frequency for RELAYs? When did you'd measured voltage increase from the relays attempt ? What circuits use for both ? How much would be the voltage drop without the circuit plugged in, just the load to a one battery? Are you sure design are you using is OK (your picture isn't very clear)?
Hope that would help you. Don't dispirit yourself you are on the right track :)
Just a thought of mine: you need to find way to use tesla switch on your previous discharge circuit.
Wish luck to all of us!
1) I assume you are talking about the Tesla Switch here
Yes
2) Why are you using CFL as load why not the discharge gap as resistance thing?
Yes, that is next step
3) AFAIK Tesla switch isn't a overunity thing. It just gets the wasted current after the load back in to the battery - which is good enough.
If Load resistance is zero (Plasma) then all the voltage drops across battery (Charging) same as input given so No need to charge batteries for plasma generation, It is better to use CFL (Vacuum for plasma channel) This way we can make Light and heat without putting energy (Overunity). Plasma may help to extract electrons from space...
My observations are power from battery is drained in proportional to load, We can flow very high current without putting too much voltage so current is doing our work and we are taking voltage back into battery.
4) You are observing power drain using MOSFET design may be because of the higher frequency of the mosfets operation against the relays. So there is in the end more power wasted on the LOAD. What is your frequency for MOSFETs and what frequency for RELAYs?
Mosfet and relays are operated at 50Hz and below frequency.
When did you'd measured voltage increase from the relays attempt ? What circuits use for both ? How much would be the voltage drop without the circuit plugged in, just the load to a one battery? Are you sure design are you using is OK (your picture isn't very clear)?
Same triggering circuit is used for relay and mosfet so same frequency of operation. For mosfet I am using mosfet drivers to make sure proper switching.
With mosfet I don't see charge balancing, But with relays It balances charge (voltage) and also charging is observed.
@Cap70,
Have you given up on the diode and coil circuit's ? ............Have you been able to do any more trials on your original motor bike motor ?
Regards,
HV
QuoteHave you given up on the diode and coil circuit's ? ............Have you been able to do any more trials on your original motor bike motor ?
No, I know how much energy is required to fire plasma plug to run engine, Need new spark plug every half hour to run it on water, I am finding ways to get rid of these problems.
@Cap70,
Good to hear you don't give up............Have you ever tried using water sucked strait out of a water fuel cell....Rather than just water ....
Being that the water in a water fuel cell has alot of HHO trapped in the water, I figure this would make it easier to ignite the water....
I know that with HHO alone in a 4 stroke, the waste spark is a big problem......
Would this be the case if HHO was enriched in the water ?
Regards, HV
Quote from: capacitor70And relays worked for few seconds during this battery voltage raised to 12.41V from 12.37V.
Hmm... how that (voltage raise) could happen ? I really thought that whole effect is just transfering energy from battery to battery
Quote from: capacitor70If Load resistance is zero (Plasma) then all the voltage drops across battery (Charging) same as input given so No need to charge batteries for plasma generation
Never thought that actually the plasma is having zero resistance...interesting thought that might be very close the throught.
Quote from: capacitor70
This way we can make Light and heat without putting energy (Overunity). Plasma may help to extract electrons from space...
I think that the resistance of the LOAD is transferred energy into something (light or heat), however there is still current after that, and in the plasma case it should be a lot of current.
Quote from: capacitor70 on September 06, 2008, 11:00:56 PMFor mosfet I am using mosfet drivers to make sure proper switching. With mosfet I don't see charge balancing, But with relays It balances charge (voltage) and also charging is observed.
Well it really smells like the mosfet drivers aren't synchronized :D. What other can explain that it works with relays and not with mosfets? However if Tesla Switch is _really_ pump for electricity - see what the people here had written:
"When using solid state components, PNP transistors are widely preferred over NPN transistors, however, the reason for this has only recently become apparent: atmospheric electrons from the local environment can enter the circuit in a PNP device, but not through an NPN"
From http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Tesla_Switch_-_Geovoltaic_Energy_Pump_(GVEP)
Hi xbox hacker,
does the voltage doubler circuit work at 230V too? From AC230V up to DC550V? Same 30uF capacity or little bit different? What voltage rating for the caps?
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3977.0;attach=25819 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3977.0;attach=25819)
Tanks
magneto_DC
Quote from: capacitor70 on September 06, 2008, 11:54:29 PM
No, I know how much energy is required to fire plasma plug to run engine, Need new spark plug every half hour to run it on water, I am finding ways to get rid of these problems.
I sure that many of us would like to see your engine running on water for 30 minutes long.
I'm even more sure that we like to see our own engines running as far has 1 minute or even less...
@capacitor70 : " high voltage travels easily in vacuum, Under pressure you need more voltage on plug to get it work....."
I acoording with this too..because of this ,the turbocharger cars need a ignition of more energy , a Capacitive Discharge Ignition of a lot of Milijoules are ideal.
In this site of an Brasilian Engeniering named Cesar Marques there is some tips about this:
http://www.cmracing.com.br/
He make a Capacitive Ignition more powerful of the world (360 milijoules and 500 milijoules) ...The spark are of 2 inches of long !! ..
the especifications are here :
http://www.cmracing.com.br/iecm.htm
And here you have some tips for INSOLATING wires and spark plugs , and how make a correct electrode for same energy !! ...(VERY IMPORTANT sayÂÃ,´s he)
Perhaps serve to resolve : "Need new spark plug every half hour to run it on water, I am finding ways to get rid of these problems." :
http://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-79875825-ignico-cm-racing-alta-potencia-turbo-aspro-q-msd-mallory-_JM
Quote from: magneto_DC on September 10, 2008, 02:40:40 AM
Hi xbox hacker,
does the voltage doubler circuit work at 230V too? From AC230V up to DC550V? Same 30uF capacity or little bit different? What voltage rating for the caps?
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3977.0;attach=25819 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3977.0;attach=25819)
Tanks
magneto_DC
Yes it should work fine. In my setup using 110VAC, i use 33uF @ 250V.....so i would use a 400V cap if i were you.
@everyone:
S1r clams to have a second car running on water. He said he will drive the car to the alternative energy meet in Florida in October....LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I live in FL so you can bet your sweet ass i will be at the meet from open to close on every day!! So i dont miss this!!
The advanced alternative energy device show-and-tell weekend event
will be October 18-19, 2008 at the Little Harbor Resort in Ruskin,
FL. Admission is free. Rooms at the resort are available at a
discount. If you want to just show up, that's fine. If you want a
room or to be a presenter on the program, it would be good to let
them know now. Here is an interview with Mr.Spodie Odie about the
event:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/kywaterfuelmuseum/va/2008/09/05/spodie-
odie
This is the quote from S1r
QuoteNo. Its been to long time trying to copy the relays on the thing so I
built another car with a deferent set up on it. You will know it when
you see it. My wife is pissed because its another one of her cars.
She hase been wanting to sale it for over a year, and no one seems to
want it as is so I changed it over and its still for sale for the
right price, and it ant cheap. I'll name the price at the get
together. I have some people following me down to video the vehicle
as we go to show road speeds and how well it goes up hills, so there
will be no question as to its preformance issues.
I have a couple of sponcers paying for the trip so maybe I'll have
enough money to get a room to stay in. Maybe set up a cott next to
the car.
I am sure that there will be an interview of some sort on it and I do
plan on bringing a second system with me to show how it is put
together and how it works. This time there is photos and other stuff
that go with this system.
I plan on leaveing the car running all weekend just to show it will
run for a long time.
I hope to see all of my non fans there, as well as fans. But I'll be
happy to just get this out there to every one. Maybe then I can
start getting some sleep.
The relays on the Elcamino can be copied but not to the point of
running a car on the road. Maybe a generator or some thing small, but
not a car. All the stuff I have put together has been the same. The
engine still surges and that ant good enough for me and not worth
giving out for others to fail at. A change was needed and I changed
the whole thing so it would work, and be easy to build.
I will show the system at the get together in Florida on the week end
of the 18th.
Want to see it? Be there,or chatch it on the web.
S1R.
I saw what S1r posted too, it gets more hilarious by the minute. Xbox, please take a camera to take pictures and/or video in case he does indeed show up. I bet something happened to the car or his wife wouldn't let him do it. We know there will be some excuse, there usually is. ::)
Quote from: Area 51 on September 11, 2008, 01:12:35 PM
I saw what S1r posted too, it gets more hilarious by the minute. Xbox, please take a camera to take pictures and/or video in case he does indeed show up. I bet something happened to the car or his wife wouldn't let him do it. We know there will be some excuse, there usually is. ::)
I got a hand held 720p HD video camera charged and a 2GB SD card ready to GO!!!! ;D
I will also be attending to make sure Xbox video's the car and not pretty girls walking by.
X-Box,
Hi, I finally received my Ferrite rod cores (No local Radshack has them).
I wound a coil, to your winding specs. yesterday and tried to test it. I ran power from variac to FWB to relay to cap (400V 100uf) to primary side of the coil. Then from secondary (shielded wire) to spark gap tester. I got nothing. Tried varying the voltage. Still Nada.
To make sure everything was working (up to the new coil) I connected my MSD ignition coil and it ran fine. So I reconnected the new coil and again got nothing.
Am I testing this right?
The gauge of both the solid shielded and unshielded wire is a little higher than your tutorial, so I had to superglue two 1'' rods together (info on the net says that is OK) Again, trying to get specialized wire here locally is impossible.
Any Idea's?
Thanks,
D.
@Dread,
Old tv sets have 1kv-50kv pieces of wire in them....Hope this helps...
Regards,
HV
Happyvalley,
Good idea. I'll try a TV repair shop (no end of them here ;D)
I suppose I can't just use another car ignition coil because of the turns ratios?
D
@dread:
When you say "unshielded" wire....do you bare, normal copper wire?? Bare copper wire WILL NOT work!!! If you were looking at my coil from my images and you saw copper wire, thats because its a transformer wire, its insulated with a clear enamel....like magnet wire. DO NOT USE BARE WIRE!!!! lol
50kV wire will be too big in diameter to make a good coil, the 1kV might work good. But i fix arcade monitors (just like TVs) and their is not enough wire to make enough turns form a monitor (TV might be different)
Here is how to start:
-Connect your HV/primary side to the coil.
-Connect a spark plug to the secondary side of the coil...one leg goes to the body of the plug and the other leg goes to the top of the plug... DO NOT WORRY ABOUT DC VOLTAGE FOR NOW. We just want to see if we can get a spark on the secondary plug!!!! If you get a good spark...with no missing, then move on to adding the DC to the secondary.
X-box,
Nah, I figured that out all by myself.
So, I'm getting 300V going in and 30V coming out (primary windings, to power source and secondary to spark gap).
I need better wire.
I don't think I'll find 2 yards. of wire in an old TV, even a big one.
Miami is great if you want to eat, sunbathe or look at pretty women but EVERYTHING else here is vacuous.
X-box, wanna make me coil if I send you some $$'S, food, sun or pretty women?
D.
Would this work?
http://shop2.frys.com/product/1616282?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG
Thanks
Dread.
Quote from: gettinwet on September 11, 2008, 06:55:21 PM
I will also be attending to make sure Xbox video's the car and not pretty girls walking by.
Get pictures of them too !!!!! ;)
@dread:
DEAL...I WILL TAKE THE WOMEN (mush have "big guns" ;))!!!!! ;D ;D ;D
Look like that wire might work!
@Area 51:
Dood....its a alternative energy show and tell....how many hot chicks do you think will be their?? LOLOLOLOLOL
A working plasma ignition setup in a Volkswagon van :) Using Luc's low current circuit ...... Plasma generation, under compression, using 1/2 amp!!!! Nice. ;D
circuit
http://skyhero.com/Cozzco%20Plasma%20Arc%20Circuit.pdf (http://skyhero.com/Cozzco%20Plasma%20Arc%20Circuit.pdf)
video
NexusPlasma01.wmv (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1149735778386216742&hl=en)
Quote from: goldenequity on September 13, 2008, 11:20:54 AM
A working plasma ignition setup in a Volkswagon van :) Using Luc's low current circuit ...... Plasma generation, under compression, using 1/2 amp!!!! Nice. ;D
circuit
http://skyhero.com/Cozzco%20Plasma%20Arc%20Circuit.pdf (http://skyhero.com/Cozzco%20Plasma%20Arc%20Circuit.pdf)
video
NexusPlasma01.wmv (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1149735778386216742&hl=en)
Wonderfull!!!!
Quote from: xbox hacker on September 13, 2008, 11:01:24 AM
@dread:
DEAL...I WILL TAKE THE WOMEN (mush have "big guns" ;))!!!!! ;D ;D ;D
Look like that wire might work!
@Area 51:
Dood....its a alternative energy show and tell....how many hot chicks do you think will be their?? LOLOLOLOLOL
Hopefully lots.;)
Quote from: goldenequity on September 13, 2008, 11:20:54 AM
A working plasma ignition setup in a Volkswagon van :) Using Luc's low current circuit ...... Plasma generation, under compression, using 1/2 amp!!!! Nice. ;D
circuit
http://skyhero.com/Cozzco%20Plasma%20Arc%20Circuit.pdf (http://skyhero.com/Cozzco%20Plasma%20Arc%20Circuit.pdf)
video
NexusPlasma01.wmv (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1149735778386216742&hl=en)
I saw that video earlier on one of my other sites. He doesn't show it actually running on water but hopefully he will post a video of it doing so soon.
Yup.... no water yet but a breakthrough nevertheless to get plasma working
under compression w/o melting electrodes!
Working on getting a "clear" diagram of his circuit over on Luc's "Urgent" thread....
It will be nice to get it nailed down and then work on getting rid of the
inverter. :)
Guys can this principle be replicated with a fuel injected engine.Like honda civic's VTI 1.6 engine.I think it has 4 Cylinders so 4 spark plugs,right.
Has anyone even tryed it on a fuel injected engine.Easyer to tune the timings.
so quite
Make sure your diodes are rated for the voltages you are using and if you can't find them for high enough
voltage you will have to arrange them in series and this mens from both directions.
Hi Eddio
Glad to see you here.
professor
Quote from: Eddio on September 25, 2008, 12:44:27 PM
Make sure your diodes are rated for the voltages you are using and if you can't find them for high enough
voltage you will have to arrange them in series and this mens from both directions.
Hi all,
So 23 tread pages and still no other replication. :'( Even worst! this tread seems to be dyeing.
Don't know what to think any more.....
A working model should never be messed with. It belongs to the shelf. A new working model should be made for improvements.
I really hope this is nothing like this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj6SZgbBuSQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOZZ6dJiIgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElpuKRWOtQ8
sorry double post...
Quote from: Super God on January 23, 2008, 07:26:21 PM
Hello,
It has been awhile since I have posted on this forum. I'm going to try to replicate s1r's water explosion engine. For some reason it seemed to make sense to me, now I may be completely wrong and this may not work but so far NO ONE has actually used an ENGINE to try this on. Bench tests will not work here. So, I have a carburettor straight six chevy (I think) down at a junkyard that the junkyard owner will pull out for me for 100$, they will make sure it rolls over and fires so I won't have to worry about getting a dead engine.
The basic plan is to get this engine running on gasoline, disconnect the gas tank, start it to remove the gasoline from the carb, replace the plugs with those Direct Hits that Ironhead recommends, turn it over, and adjust the timing until it fires. Unlike HHO, where you split the water, instead the water is being directly fed into the engine via the carb jets.
I will post pictures and (maybe) video if I can to show once and for all if this system can work! (I think it will) If it works, maybe add some HHO to the mix and see if that helps? Heh, but that is for much later. Pics and videos should come once I get the engine.
Thanks for reading and I hope I can get this thing working!!
Hello I am new to this and somewhat clumsy, so if I goof up it is not intentional. We have just moved to a new location and are still living out of boxes and all my shop is still in boxes and not set up, and being so I will be somewhat slow in getting out pictures on my progress, but I will be giving some pictures from my projects at our previous location and yes it was very crowded in a one car garage, yet I sympathise with those who must work out of their home. I have dismatled spark plugs to see how I can make them into a plasma plug, I think the best way is to make a sub unit that is able to be screwed into the spark plug hole of the engine head and can accept a adapted spark plug into it. The unit must have dilled holes in it with check valves for the injection of pressurised ultrasonic water vapor, this vapor would be timmed for injection by a solinoid valve. My electronics are based on some of my experimentaion back a few years combining High voltage low amps which is gated to a low voltage high amps using capacitors and plenty of diodes in order to get the right values. I don't think that relays are the way to go, but rather using SCRs and electronically timed circuits. (Anyone out there with good timing circuit with isolators between the plugs and the pulsed current. I have some drawings I have made, but some things I am working on are in AutoCad and some others I must scan. What is the best format? is jpeg ok?. Ed.
Its been a while scene my last post, i have been working on too many projects at one time..LOL and i have not had time to play Halo3. Anyway i have been working on some things and i hope to bring them to light soon!
One of which is a PWM with a automatic current limiter, LCD screen and 150 AMP continuous rated!!
I will be attending the FL show and tell on Oct 18th.... i hope to see and meet some of you their. But as expected S1r will not be their.....
Quote
Due to a problem with the vehicle that I planed to drive to the event
haveing blown the top of the engine off, ( intake busted, haeds
cracked, pistons drove down through the oil pan, fan through the
radiator, and other stuff blown off the engine.) I will not be
attending the event as planed.
OH WELLL!!
Welcome back xbox!
;D That S1r is too much. Did his head fell of too? Too many movies seen for that guy. Fan trough the radiator hahaha thats to much for me. ;D
Now realy, what is the joy of that guy? doesn't he have nothing better to do?
Woo boy it's been awhile. Now that I have a job and my financial situation has calmed a bit, I can start serious work on this project, although the timing wasn't too good (WINTER of all times!). Good thing I can get a workshop going downstairs. Not much activity around here anymore. I wonder where cap70 went?
Quote from: xbox hacker on September 13, 2008, 11:01:24 AM
@dread:
DEAL...I WILL TAKE THE WOMEN (mush have "big guns" ;))!!!!! ;D ;D ;D
Look like that wire might work!
@Area 51:
Dood....its a alternative energy show and tell....how many hot chicks do you think will be their?? LOLOLOLOLOL
It's 20-Oct isn't it? Any update of "hot chicks" at show-tell conference on FL?
OK...hot chick update....LOL!!!!
YES, their was several hotties!! BUT only because it was at a nice resort on a beach...LOL (not for the show)
I tried to get some pix and some vid, but i wife wouldn't let me... :-[ ROFLMAO!!!!
As for the show, it was ok... i thought the turn out was low, lots of empty tables. I just wanted a weekend with my wife and away from my kids ;)
These are not excellent news but at least is some positive result.
I'm still using capacitor70 diode circuit witch he used on is working model.
Today I manage to idle my engine with 50/50 water and 96ºvol ethilic alcohol.
I'm using alcohol because It mixes with water but the moving parts of the engine tend to get stuck.
The choke gets stuck and a valve got stuck open once too. I guess alcohol does not lubricate and gas does.
The engine only got to start after it was a little bit warm. The heat only came after allot of pulls of that cord.
The head was warm and the plug was too.
Quote from: rfsimoes on October 23, 2008, 05:26:02 PM
These are not excellent news but at least is some positive result.
I'm still using capacitor70 diode circuit witch he used on is working model.
Today I manage to idle my engine with 50/50 water and 96ºvol ethilic alcohol.
I'm using alcohol because It mixes with water but the moving parts of the engine tend to get stuck.
The choke gets stuck and a valve got stuck open once too. I guess alcohol does not lubricate and gas does.
The engine only got to start after it was a little bit warm. The heat only came after allot of pulls of that cord.
The head was warm and the plug was too.
Maybe mix a bit of mineral oil in for lubrication. Not sure if it would mix well, just a thought.
Mike
@rismos,
Is your test engine 2 stroke or 4 stroke?
Quote from: AhuraMazda on October 24, 2008, 03:00:04 AM
@rismos,
Is your test engine 2 stroke or 4 stroke?
It's a 4 stoke 127cc 3HP briggs & stratton:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEs_XF5IWQY
I know that in brasil, alcohol is used allot in cars but don't know what kind of alcohol.
Maybe try an extremely lean mixture of gasoline, it may be all that's required to keep the valves lubricated.
rismos, I doubt that the fuel mixture is related to stuck choke or valves. The choke doesn't require any lube, which valve is sticking, intake or exhaust? The intake valve might get some lube or cooling effect from the fuel while the exhaust valve lives in a brutal atmosphere, dry, extreme heat, yet it survives. I think I would pull the valves out and clean them up along with the ports.
I was looking over the circuit today and I was contemplating replacing the ignition side of the circuit (the side with the coil) with a high frequency current generator and the transformer with an air core transformer, much like in the original design. That design seemed to work much better to the author of it, and he never mentioned misfires. Maybe an opto-isolator for interface to the distributor coil. The ignition coil would not be needed, the distributor could act like a rotary switch, triggering an transistor to turn on the hf current. Just an idea. The air core transformer could step up the volts to whatever value we desire.
Hi Folks,
I have been reading this thread as fast as I can for several days to try to catch up. I don't like to jump in before I know what is going on in a thread. I am on page 19 now and have also read the last two pages.
When you put water in the carb, it will plug some very fine holes inside it. I have spent most of my life working on ice's. When we suspected water in a carb, we would rev up the engine and hold the choke shut, if it was not efi, and keep the engine running so the vacuum from the engine would hopefully suck out the water or trash.
The best way I have found to get water from a fuel system is to add isopropyl alcohol. The brand I liked best for water dispersant is "ISOHEET". It is similar to "HEET" except it smells like rubbing alcohol. If I remember right "HEET" is methanol, whereas "ISOHEET" is isopropyl alcohol. That is the reason iso smells like rubbing alcohol. The main difference between ISOHEET and rubbing alcohol is that rubbing alcohol has been watered down a lot already.
I watched a demonstration where they put about a teaspoon of water and gasoline in a bottle and put methanol in it and shook it and it didn't mix all that well. Then they took another bottle the same amount of water with gasoline and put isoheet in it and shook it and the water completely blended with the gasoline.
I said all of that to say this, when you put water in the carb and then can't get the engine to run on gasoline again, try mixing isoheet with the water and gasoline mixture and see if that will clear the water out.
I also want to say my hat is off to all of you for the work you are doing and also for how you are all cooperating with each other on this project. I have been following capacitor70 since I saw his first video. And the rest of you all have good ideas and are good at carrying them all out. I could mention each of you, but I have already took up too much space.
I am crippled and can't do much work, but when I get caught up with the reading, I may can come up with an idea or two that may help.
Thanks for all that you are doing, and someday, I will be able to say, "I knew these guys before they were famous for inventing the Plasma Fuel system."
whizwheel
Hello everyone,
It's been a long while since I posted. We got extremely busy with and now we have been able to get back at it. We did build a 600v plasma system and was able to get it working on a gas lawnmower at idle using just gasoline, but the voltage was too high for our switch and we lost spark at the switch. We are going to get a higher voltage switch and try it again and then see if we can increase the idle.
Hi all
@provelless
I guess you are right about what you said but this is 1980 briggs & stratton. Excess fuel can go down a tube to the crank oil. I've seen that happen before... :'(
This carb choke is a metal piece that goes in and out the carb and has direct contact with the fuel and some excess fuel comes out of the choke too.
I don't know what valve got stuck but my guess is that it was the intake. But it came loose with some heavy "bangs" on the engine.
Today I'm disappointed again. :'(
That 50/50 mixture I so happily told you about was not that great of an acheavment.
I found out that with that even mixture, my engine can run on regular spark, without plasma...
With 40% alcohol 60% wather I could also run with regular spark. At idle only and opening and closing the choke.
Fuel was coming out the exaust because it was flooded.
Then I tried another 20cc of water making 33,33333333% of alcohol and 66,6666666% of water and with plasma I could not start that engine.
So for me, the conclusion is that this plasma cannot do nothing that a regular spark cant.
Well maybe a litle of cold start easiness but nothing furder...
I'm tired of this. No one was able to replicate capacitor70 results, not even himself has far has I know...
I guess I will stick here and watch you guys and see if I missed something here.
It was so simple. A bunch of diodes, a big capacitor and a 4 stroke engine. I have all of those and even added an adjustable spark timing.
@whizwheel
Your input was very important and valuable to me and I think to allot of us. For that, thank you
@Super God
Go for it...
Best of luck to you guys
I'll be here...
rfsimoes
There is some key aspect we are missing in order to implement this system properly. There is more to it than just piggybacking 110 over high voltage it seems. Could it be polarity? The diode system works but the coil system seems to fail. Why? One user I recall gettin 4k rpm spikes from the coil system, maybe the tuning is the key.
Ok, we are using a diode system with a 15000 dc coil and using a 641ac supply. It creates one heck of a spark outside of the engine. When installed on the 4-stroke, single cylinder engine it will barely idle with gasoline, but it acts as if it is starving for fuel. As soon as we switch off the ac bridge, the mower engine runs fine. What are we missing with just regular gasoline? We don't want to try water yet if we can't get past the gasoline. We created an adjustable ignition switch on this as well. Any input would be great. Thanks
Maybe the voltage isn't high enough in the cylinder for the ac to run accross or the ac is snubbing out the hv spike.
By voltage do you mean the DC side? We are currenlty using a 15000vdc coil. We have 641vac, which I assume would be plenty. We have a 45000vdc coil, but it was shorting out our diode bank, so we put the 15000vdc coil back on.
@rfsimoes:
Have you tried to use HHO as the fuel with the plasma spark?
Quote from: rfsimoes on October 24, 2008, 01:28:08 PM
It's a 4 stoke 127cc 3HP briggs & stratton:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEs_XF5IWQY
I know that in brasil, alcohol is used allot in cars but don't know what kind of alcohol.
Must be bioethanol distilled from soya, for which the(ir) precious rainforest is being destroyed :(
Quote from: xbox hacker on October 28, 2008, 09:59:47 AM
@rfsimoes:
Have you tried to use HHO as the fuel with the plasma spark?
No I did not. I did not manage to build a efficient enough HHO tank.
In adition I think it is dangerous and It adds another complicated and variable to the system.
I don't see the advantage on using HHO in this.
Quote from: destino1320 on September 02, 2008, 02:36:41 AM
Greetings all
This is my first post here, and a have a few questions.
Here is a video of my set up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqSq3jVlMHA
so far we have built a pair of firestorm spark plugs and we have put together a combination of the Tero water explosion circuit and the JCBX circuit.
We cant get the engine to run however, so i am curious about a few things, especially from capacitor70 or s1r9a9m9
- what is the best air to water mixture
-what is the optimal way to bring the water into the engine
-what is the optimal timing of the engine
-what is the optimal voltage coming from the inverter, and end result through the diodes ( as diodes to consume some voltage, there is a voltage drop when using certain diodes)
- is there a good way to charge the water before bringing it in to the motor, with magnets, or ionization or joe cell etc
any more help or comments would be great
thanks for all the good work everyone!
Hi All,
this is my first post, so I wanted to read up to make sure somebody hadn't said the same thing already. The water feed to the sparkplug seems to fire best when it's atomized finely, so how about using an ultrasonic mist generator like is used around ponds and such? The circuitry of the ultrasonic generator could even be included as part of the sparkplug firing circuit. The generators I've seen have all used AC voltage, but since you're using an inverter already that's not a problem. The problem of how much air to mix with the water would be easier to solve with the mist than with liquid water. I think two separate power supplies, one DC, and one AC, are key to getting this working in an ICE. I also think the capacitors should be duplicated for each plug on a multi-cylinder engine, in order to give them more charging time between firings. I have a 3 cylinder Suzuki metro engine sitting in my garage that would be ideal for a plasma-fired, water powered conversion. The question remains, do I have to use it on mains current, or can I make it portable then get out and drive it?
Joel
This year we don't have winter season. Its raining in winter season and temperature is much much high :( 15 Centigrade more than previous years.
read this:
ORMES the Secret WATER FUEL CELL ingredient:
By: Jeremy William VanHaitsma
making of ORMES
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68jtnuMAa00
Have fun and happy, safe research....
Any one knows name of stone which is used in welding machine. when we drop water on it, it generates explosive gas ?
Quote from: capacitor70 on November 23, 2008, 10:22:13 AM
Any one knows name of stone which is used in welding machine. when we drop water on it, it generates explosive gas ?
calcium carbide (CaC2)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_carbide
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbide_lamp
Quote from: Gustav22 on November 23, 2008, 12:44:08 PM
calcium carbide (CaC2)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_carbide
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbide_lamp
aka redneck fireworks :)
Lately I've been hearing that this system uses more power than the engine can supply back to the battery. If this is the case, then we can simply use a variation of Thane's perepitia device to reduce the load on the test engine. No big deal. Input power is no longer a concern, this means we can supply any amount of power (within reason) to the plug and gather data on different voltages and currents.
hello everybody
i know there is many people that want to misslead you from owes reason .... but don't gave up !!!
to run 1 cycle of 1 cylinder you need less than 1 ml of water to be explode, because its 1800 ml of vapor right? and even if the mixture is 50/50 cylinder is 800 ml so we need 400ml vapor so its 0.22 ml of water
in my opinion regular spark can easily explode 0.22 ml of water so i think we souled leave a plasma spark for a while and concentrate on the way of exploding water (small amounts 0,2 ml) with regular spark , something like meyer or pucharin did (injector)
there is a video on the youtube that shows that guy explodes water with voltage doubler
its small amounts but that's just what we need
cheers from poland
Hello from the Wet Coast (not a mistype) of Canada.
This is my first post ever on any forum and I hope I haven't chosen a thread that has 'died'. The work that's being done here should be kept alive and well!
I stumbled across S1r's video while surfing the net and was hooked instantly. So I decided to look into to it a bit further. After many nights of reading till my eyes bled and meditating on the info absorbed I was struck by a VERY strong mental image. It has taken me several weeks to read this thread and others (along with links/related articles) to get caught up to speed as to what it would take to make an ICE run on water. The more I read, the more this 'vision' I had is reinforced. There has been a couple of comments along the lines of what I've been thinking but they have not been given much attention. My friends and family are getting quite sick of hearing me rant on about this so I thought I'd overcome my shyness and share my thoughts here. This topic seems to have ground to a halt so whats the harm in giving it a kick in the butt. Well...here goes nothin...
There seems to be 2 problems with the plasma spark:
1) The spark isn't strong enough. This "brute force" approach seems to work well for gasoline(petrol) but it's not enough to explode water. From what I've seen/read so far this method seems to be a power hog and has a tendency to eat plugs.
2) The "event" happens too fast to be of any use.
Being and avid believer in the K.I.S.S. principle it would make sense to slow the "event" down. How? IMO vacuum is the answer. Just look up into space. It is just one giant vacuum where plasma can be sustained indefinitely. Joseph Papp understood this and used it in his motor. Cap70 proved this too when he said the engine in his video was in need of a rebuild. Could it be that blow-by past the rings was venting pressure on the compression stroke creating negative pressure when the plasma was being fired ATDC? Someone else (can't remember who now) mentioned they could fire their motor on water with retarded timing too but only for a short while. Could the heat caused from friction (causing air to expand) as the engine warmed up be counteracting the vacuum?
Another piece of evidence for this vacuum theory is the sound of the engines in Cap70 and S1r's videos. I've heard this before trying to start an engine with the timing too far advanced. It will preignite and counter rotate sending fuel vapor/pillar of flame out the carb. It will also suck the exhaust valve open as the piston travels backwards down the exhaust stroke, causing that funny noise. Is that why S1r claims his El Camino runs with reduced power? Cause the valve springs aren't strong enough to keep the valves closed? It would also be a good reason to explain why the oil dosen't turn grey from water contamination (ever blow a head gasket?) caused by blow-by past the rings (which is inevitable in an ICE)
The final straw for cementing this theory into my heart and mind (making that little voice in my head say: "I told you so") is even Stan Meyer uses the vacuum principle in his patents. This little secret is not mentioned in words but it IS there.
"A picture is worth a thousand words"
Have (another) look at patent #5,293,857 http://www.google.com/patents?id=fPEbAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&dq=stanley+a+meyer (http://www.google.com/patents?id=fPEbAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&dq=stanley+a+meyer) scroll down to fig. 3 and tell me what is fundamentally WRONG with this picture.
Are these guys using neg. pressure+plasma to create pos. pressure near BDC?
Sorry this post has gotten so long but this has been building up in me for quite some time and I needed to get it off my chest. I am quite broke atm and can't afford to replicate. Also my electrical skills are not up to the level needed to build the plasma circuit. I am slowing gathering the materials/knowledge needed to test this theory myself and I call upon those who are set up already to try this out.
Any feedback of any kind would be appreciated.
TYVM,
Red
Hi All,
Seems to be this thread is dying or already dead. But with this all 93 pages there are so many things to learn & information to where we need to go to find zero point energy (Free Energy). Most of the threads belong to this subject has been started around 2006 & reach to the peak by end of 2006 & mid 2007, but suddenly 90% of those threads has come to the end & most of the web pages also disappeared by now.
So if somebody or group can summarized all the succeeded Experiments in one place it will really helpful others or the new researchers who are very rarely find these days.
There are few method experimenting & still I’m confused what will be the best or what is actually correct as we can’t find any decent proofs.
1) Water Fuel Cell â€" (HHO, Brown’s gas, H2 generators, H2 Boosters…Ect)
2) Plasma Technology - (Plasma Spark)
3) Joe cell â€" (Organ Energy)
4) Proton Cell â€" (Proton Energy)
Above no 3 & 4 might be same, but some people claim this is similar but there are differences.
So appreciate Somebody can fine-tune all this information & it will be a great work (Even the info on this thread, as I can’t understand the end result or successfully completed one)
Sorry if I’m wrong, this is only my personal opinion & I’m bit of a confused due to the mismatch info can find in different article/ threads/forums.
Still looking for an updates from Cap70 / Xbox hac / Super Good.
Thanks & pls help others.
Hi guys
plasma spark is not dead see water burning
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LMRIcx-pm0&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn9-ZK9y2Uk
aussepom
Hi Aussie,
good to see you at it still. I like your video.
Where abouts in Australia are you , I travel to Adelaide, Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane at least once amonth...would be good to catch up for a coffee. or give me a call 0427245375
Mark
Yeah this isn't dead, just took a long hiatus from it. I'm starting back up though, so check back! Best of luck to those still experimenting!!
hi mark seen the latest
3.16 to 5kW input output 95kW to 254kW of heat energy.
and it is only at 1/20th of full power.
aussepom
Hi Aussiepom,
No I havnt seen the latest ..where should I look. Thanks for letting me know.
Drop me an email markdansie@bigpond.com.
Kind Regards
Mark
Oh.. Thanks God, it's moving again. nice to hear that we can have a 20 times grater output against input.
Good luck.....Keep it up.
Sathika.
Yup still waiting on a PCB. Hope my circuit design works.
Quote from: Super God on August 26, 2009, 06:13:34 AM
Yup still waiting on a PCB. Hope my circuit design works.
Yes.... I'm also believing that you are very close to the target.
Best of luck...... Don't give up until it works.
Hi, Whats going on ? ;D
Hi Capacitor !!
are some progress with the s1r9a9m9 replication ?
Regards
Winter! How are ya?
You know, it's the little things that just put my work to a stop. lol. The engine I have has the brake engaged, I'm trying to find some sort of level I can use to disengage and reengage the brake. The throttle control is something else to contend with too.
Still working! (slowly)
I have everything set up aaaand I can't get the 110 to jump the gap. I need to rethink my strategy...
Hi!
capacitor 70 coil variant video(s)....
400V LV DC : 25-30KV on primary HV circuit. Secondary HV DC 10-15KV
Spark gap 1.2mm
exploding water. with tap water.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=fgab2a&aq=f
fgab2a
Rednekhippy:
i according to me, good your thought!
OK, I've got the system setup. Exact capacitor70 circuit, with a 250v 1000uf capacitor. Impressive spark, and an even louder spark in water. Fighting with the engine to get it to fire... Im using a drill to turn it over currently. This thing just doesn't want to fire up! I'm getting spark, maybe just not enough or too little water.
More to come, maybe a video if I can get to walmart tonight and buy a camera.
I finally got a video camera...Here is my progress thus far:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6nj0EU9wbU
Timing now works:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atOtriQFpWE
Nice! Interesting about the negative working better on the spark. Good luck on the next step.
A major problem once you have the system operating is the corrosion of the engine itself. This will be solved in two ways: first I will use a water mist maker to atomize the water, then I will have tightly spaced electrodes to split some of the water mist into HHO (more surface area when we are dealing with mist than liquid water). The HHO should keep the system dry, if not, we can always put a minute amount of gasoline into the system to eliminate the corrosion issue. The atomized mist water and HHO combination will be fed into the engine intake.
You can use crystals to obtain HHO too, like was Power To Be is doing in his thread.
It may not be worth doing for a small test engine (unless you have a use for it like a generator) but you might consider using a ceramic product like Cerma. I plan on trying it as I'm slowly working toward trying some HHO in a car. Web site here:
http://cermastore.com/cart1/index.php
I do not expect the single cylinder engine to be able to produce enough power to run itself. If it does, awesome!
Quote from: Super God on April 09, 2011, 08:03:28 PM
A major problem once you have the system operating is the corrosion of the engine itself. This will be solved in two ways: first I will use a water mist maker to atomize the water, then I will have tightly spaced electrodes to split some of the water mist into HHO (more surface area when we are dealing with mist than liquid water). The HHO should keep the system dry, if not, we can always put a minute amount of gasoline into the system to eliminate the corrosion issue. The atomized mist water and HHO combination will be fed into the engine intake.
You can use crystals to obtain HHO too, like was Power To Be is doing in his thread.
Wow, you're still at this - it's been years! :D
Seriously though, I have an old car that just gathering rust that I've often considered trying something similar with. Thing its engine is still 'in situ', and it has an electronic ignition, so I'd have no idea about how to go about retarding the spark. What I have started playing with is one of those 'foggers' you were referring to, but I'm just using it to fog gasoline in the hope I will see some improvement.
I look forward to following your progress.
PS - I remember reading in Powers* thread that you were also trying that crystal thing - have you had any success, or anyone else for that matter? Slovenia I think mentioned that there was also a thread on this on EF, and though I looked I couldn't find it.
Quote from: e2matrix on April 09, 2011, 09:20:15 PM
It may not be worth doing for a small test engine (unless you have a use for it like a generator) but you might consider using a ceramic product like Cerma. I plan on trying it as I'm slowly working toward trying some HHO in a car. Web site here:
http://cermastore.com/cart1/index.php
I actually bought this 'gunk' for my 'good' car and was none too pleased with the result. After the first-treatment, I saw no improvement at all. When I came to use the second and final treatment after the allotted time/mileage, I found that the whole bottle had turned to something with the consistency of treacle - it wouldn't even pour from the bottle! I even took photos of it with the notion of getting my money back but decided not to bother...
I have crystals, just haven't adhered them anywhere yet. I will do that later; right now I want to get this replication working and stable. The crystals will help lower the energy input once I start adding HHO to keep the engine dry. (At least I hope HHO can keep the engine dry, testing is needed to know for sure)
Edit: Also, I can't apologize enough for the delay. Real life for a 20 year old is hectic, trying to balance out a job, friends, family, and this work. :) I will work my fastest! I hope to have a more scientific method to test this device sometime in the future. Even if it isn't 100% self running, if it can run for a day on just batteries, I'd call it a success.
I really admire your tenacity here - keep it up!
btw, presuming your ICE has 4 spark-plugs, do you plan on replicating your existing setup for each plug? My engine will barely run off 3 cylinders with gasoline, let alone one, so it would be more than successful if you could get it to run for any length of time on just one!
Sorry to hear the less the stellar experience with Cerma. Another member on another energy forum said he was a mechanic for many years and tried it in his wife's car. He had nothing but good to say about it.
Sprocket, I think he's using a single cylinder lawnmower type engine right now or at least that's what I saw in his video.