So i took a wack at something i thought was going to be wild but i deff had to satisfy my curiosity, Go stick a small copper pipe or piece of sheet copper like 5 inches or so in the ground, then take a steel screw stick it in the ground about a foot away from the copper and tell me the voltage/ current you get. Copper being positive steel being negative. I got 1.5 v ac or around .9 v dc and i cant tell the current but its in the hundreds of micro amps, charges ac cap real quick.... I Found out two ideas that will help people. First stick your copper in the ground, make an imaginary circle in your head using the copper as the center and plop the steel skrew in around the perimeter of this circle walk the whole 360 degrees and try the skrew in the ground every so often. My conclusion is polar alignment deff makes a difference and produces more voltage and current give how the metals are placed... Doing it near tree roots also had a significant impact on current being higher but no real impact on the voltage. If the freq of this ac power was fast enough, i guess my question is could i step it up to something useful, mabey just enough to make a small solonid motor with flywheel or alternator of sorts to make additional power. Ideas folks ? I haven't tried putting coils on the metal directly to try Stubblefield stuff i wanted to start basic but the crazy part is these two peices of metal can be separated like at least 10 feet and they still form a circuit, or register voltage on my meter, pretty cool. I also found out that i could run a battery in series, plus of battery to - steel screw, copper pipe to load + and the - term on the battery to the loads - terminal, still lit the led which means its deff possible to use the ground as a conductor of sorts at least across a reasonable space of land.
Weird thing.. my analog shack meter shows the ac while my digital doesent but when i tap the probe on the copper or steel it registers a little....
I forgot to mention this is working in a ceramic pot with a small basil plant in it as well, who woulda knew and its on the wood deck so about 4 feet off the ground level. Not as much current compared to being in the actual ground
@Localjoe:
I would think a lot would depend on the type of soil and mineralization of the ground where someone lives as to how well, or if, this might work. A chemistry teacher of mine once showed us that your mouth is actually a battery under the correct conditions....ie chewing on a piece of aluminum foil.
I don't know if you know who Art Bell is....now retired famous host/creator of the Coast to Coast a.m. radio show...well, he is really big into ham radio and he reported that at his Nevada location, he strung up a "super" antenna in an array that was very large and supported off the ground on poles driven into the ground. when he went to hook his equipment to it, it started blowing stuff left and right. He checked the antenna line and had something like 210 volts on it. He ended up putting some kind of filter on it but he said he was always curious as to where that power was from. He lives way out in the high dessert and is not near any radio transmitters.
Anyway, this may be related to your phenomenon. Also, could you not have several setups as you described and hook them in series to raise the voltage to a useful level? Be pretty cool to recharge your cell phone from the earth, or light some LEDs.
Bill
You can make a low power battery using tap water as well as the dirt. I made this a while ago to see if I could light a led. The amps are no good though for powering larger stuff.
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/7892/wc1ki4.jpg
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/737/wc2ax4.jpg
This guy gets a good spark from falling water.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY1eyLEo8_A
@ Freezer:
The last link you posted from youtube is a great lecture series. I enjoyed watching it and am going to look for the others. Thanks.
Bill
@Localjoe:
I am considering trying the pipe in the ground effect that you described. Would this be enough to light a very small LED? I wonder how many pipes you could put in a certain area and how far from each other they might have to be to still work. I would love to hear more about your experiment. Thanks.
Bill
Hey Bill,
Tye Pipe wasn't that long at all and diameter is about quarter inch or so not half tho. I'll take a pic of that and the skrew i used for it. What still boggles me is why my meters are telling me different things about the ac voltage, Im betting the analog one is right either way, but im going to get a new digital one soon so i'll try that to make sure. Moral of the story is that the analog meter showed upwards of 1.5 v ac and about .8 v dc. Digital showed the dc but not the ac.
@Localjoe:
Hey, I just tried this tonight and, right out of the box I obtained .88 volts dc. I used a cleaned copper pipe, 1/2 inch dia. x 8" long, stuck in the ground about 4". I used a zinc coated screw, about 1" long sutck in about halfway along the true north south axis with the copper pipe being the north. I moved it around some and got .94 vdc for the best number thus far.
I just watched a video on youtube where this guy built a coil setup like they did in the 1800's and all he got was .88 vdc. I am going to research this more and try many different experiments with various materials. This was all I had handy at the time. I am going to try the tree suggestion as this was mentioned several times in the google search articles that I read. I just can't believe that I got this high a number on the first several attempts. I am thinking now about two copper pipes in series with two screws...will this give out 1.88 vdc? You were correct Joe in that it does make a difference where, and how deep/shallow you put the screw. Deeper gave slightly lower readings. A little to the left, or right also lowered the readings. I would be very interested to learn of yours, and others experiments in this area. I had no intenetion of trying this as I am working on other projects right now, but this was an interesting break and it works, right off the bat. Keep me posted please.
Bill
This is so easy to replicate and experiment with I propose that everyone should try it. We can compare readings and techniques. I'll bet, with a little imagination, it won't take long before we get the volts up there. Afterall, an AA battery is only 1.5 volts so, this is free and possible maybe to hook up an array in series for useful energy. Free. I am so excited by this I will have trouble sleeping until I can play some more.
Bill
I think the voltage will be dependent on the galvanic difference of the metals used.
This is basically a battery using the wet soil as the electrolyte, right?
I love the idea of just putting rods in the ground and getting some electricity.
Well yes and no... is a battery pulsed dc or ac??? Im not thinking so...yet it can also act in series with a circuit. This leads me to believe something else is going on. If someone can answer this in good faith and tell me why would that metal reaction give more amps of current near dry tree soil separated 5 or 6 feet than in a wet soil a foot apart? If we can answer that it may shed more light on how this is working. I dont know something i'm not telling those are just my observations that don't fit the logical conclusions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_battery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_battery)
The above is a good link to info on this type of device. I have read where the water in the ground may act as an electrolite but I am getting reasonably good results in dry soil. Tesla said that there is enough electricty in the earth to supply all of our needs forever.
I do think it makes a different what type of metals are used, and the position relating to the poles of the earth seem to be important as well. Nathan Stubblefield appeared to use coil types of devices set into the ground as did some others. (See link above)
I have not yet tried to link several in series to see what happens yet...hopefully this weekend will be good for that.
Bill
Good thinking Bill,
I really think that this doesn't have anything to do with a galvanic reaction. Mainly because of the tree factor .. Why is my current 10 times higher near a large old tree with dry soil? If it were real moist ground It could fit possibly, and maybe the tree roots have something that would speed up the reaction or help it but thats a stretch and if the height didn't make much of a difference It could fit too but with this experiment when the zinc screw is raised higher than the copper in the ground you see an increase of voltage and current. So the proximity to the tree and the height of the electrodes regardless of distance I see as factors that don't fit the galvanic cell description. I do understand there is a ratio to the ammts of metal in a galvanic cell but this is too much of an extreme. Consider inserting different amounts of the metals into the conductive medium and theres probably a fall off point where you would see diminishing returns but thats assuming your exposing all the surface aera to that. Why would taking some of the screw out raise the voltage and current instead of making it fall ?
Exactly! My best voltage was with the 2" long screw, which I started almost burried completly, backed out more than halfway. This was once I did as you said and moved it around the polar alignment to find the best spot. I wish I could visualize what was going on here. Common sense would suggest that we could sink 10' long copper rods/tubes and 10' long zink material and get a large voltage when in fact, I'll bet it would be less. This seems to be something just below the surface as if there was a circular field of energy, like a vortex on its side, with the top edge of the field just below the surface. Maybe the other edge of the vortex is just below the surface on the other side of the planet...who knows?
Some early experimenters (1800's) used copper plates and zink plates and burried them just below the surface as well. I don't know how much voltage they got out of them but then, probably neither did they. (No voltmeters at the time) There are a lot of varibles to play with here by experimentation. I even tried an empty aluminum beer can twisted into the soil (dirt, no grass) only maybe 1/16 inch and got .29 vdc between it and my north facing copper pipe. I also set a neo magnet into the dirt about 1/4 inch and between the copper pipe and the mag I got .94 vdc. distance was, in all cases about 16" from the pipe, give or take.
Bill
Remember neo magnet ;D.... I forgot to mention i put one on my zinc screw to start with ... easy way to hold the agitator clip lead on wouldn't bite.. I wasn't testing voltage or current at the time i was out there with a d battery or 2 in a holder and i put the positive from the battery to the zinc screw, negative of battery to the led and a jumper from the copper pipe to the positive side on the led and it ran the current through the ground. Maybe the magnet had something to do with part of it anyways, ive been reading all the patents and every one i find seems to take the outputs and connect them to inductors. coils. One shows two induction coils for the old clock battery so one lead to each but another looks like an ac transformer single wire connects the plate and screw and is wound around an iron core then another wire comes off that for the circuit,secondary we'll say. I think keeping the power in an electromagnetic state.. i know thats not the proper term, but if we transform that earth energy to magnetic then wind leads off of that transformer i think that might be the trick so we would set up and oscillator on the other side that we will be stepping up. I see it common in all the patents just a little different each time. Tell me what you think
I have not read the patents yet, but I will do so. I did see a video (from google earth battery search) that showed a guy with a coil device he said replicated the early experimenters and he only got about what I got from an empty beer can sitting on the ground to the copper pipe.
I don't know a lot about coils. I am familiar with what they do and all, but I am not an electronics guy by any means. Did it mention what was used for the cores in the coils? (I will read the patents) What if we used the copper pipe on the north side and a capacitor, partially in the ground for the secondary metal? We could take the voltage off of the outside of the cap and the pipe and route it into the cap for charging. Maybe a combination of coils, caps...and who knows? I was wondering if a resonance might be involved somehow for tuning for max voltage. The diameter of the copper pipe, length, length in the ground, distance from screw, or other zince or metal. Maybe the variables have to be "tuned" so a type of resonance takes place that matches the eath's resonance, or a fraction thereof, in some way.
I have not found much anywhere on the web about anyone really working on this in modern day. (Except for the video I mentioned) what I mean is, I have not seen anywhere that a university or science foundation has fully explored this and determined it is not viable. It appears the old guys were getting usable electricity from these things. I wonder what happend? Possibly 1 cent a kilowatt hour for electricity delivered to your house made further research not practicle at that time.
I also read that one guy, who also had patents, heated and illuminated his home using only this type of device.
Off to read some patents.
Bill
http://www.flicklife.com/185b45ae4752a1e7d544/Battery_Hack_The_Planet.html (http://www.flicklife.com/185b45ae4752a1e7d544/Battery_Hack_The_Planet.html)
This link is to a pretty good video. He said he is getting 1.5 amps I believe. I think his rods are too close together and he could get more with a little experimentation. He uses it to run an LED in his bathroom...for free. A step in the right direction. Read most of the patents, a few more to go.
Bill
Bill if that dude is right we found out way more than him already and just havent realized it . He stopped with the electrodes that close.... and we just need longer pieces of metal.......... Awesome find man that just solidified this is defiantly worth our while.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmNoLfjIEac (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmNoLfjIEac)
Above link is another video that is a kind of replication of Stubblefield. I am not impressed by the results shown here. Just thought you might like to see it if you have not already.
The other video from my earlier post does not even mention if he aligned with the north/south meridian or not. If not, probably more power there from just this change. Also, I think he said one rod was a grounding rod...are these zinc coated?
The following is a list of metals and their potentials in the earth:
[edit] Metals and Soils
Potential Differences of metals
(Soil Galvanic series)
Metal
... Potential
V Cu/CuSO4 electrode
Magnesium (pure) -1.75
Magnesium (alloy) -1.60
Zinc -1.10
Alluminum (alloy) -1.05
Aluminum (pure) -0.8
Steel (clean) -0.50 to -0.80
Steel (rusted) -0.20 to -0.50
Cast Iron -0.50
Lead -0.50
Steel (concrete) -0.20
Copper -0.20
Brass -0.20
Bronze -0.20
Steel (mill scale) -0.20
Cast iron (high silicon) -0.20
Carbon +0.30
Graphite +0.30
Coke +0.30
Notes:
Non-uniform conditions at node surface
I am not sure, but I think the idea is to choose two that are as far apart on the scale as possible. If I am calculating this correctly....I used a coper tube (-.20) and a zinc coated screw (-1.10) and this gives a difference of -.90 and I achieved .94. If these numbers really correlate this way, then we can calculate, within reason, the potential of our metals. I could be wrong about this. I would like to try carbon or graphite (+.30) and zinc (-1.10) which should be a 1.4 potential. This could get interesting.
Bill
Ive got a few carbon rods left from an electrolysis exp i'll try that one tomorrow too if i have a chance
Quote from: Pirate88179 on November 03, 2007, 12:04:47 AM
http://www.flicklife.com/185b45ae4752a1e7d544/Battery_Hack_The_Planet.html (http://www.flicklife.com/185b45ae4752a1e7d544/Battery_Hack_The_Planet.html)
This link is to a pretty good video. He said he is getting 1.5 amps I believe. I think his rods are too close together and he could get more with a little experimentation. He uses it to run an LED in his bathroom...for free. A step in the right direction. Read most of the patents, a few more to go.
Bill
Hmm, amazing !
1.8 Amperes !
How does he get so much current out of this cell ?
That is really amazing !
Have to try this soon myself.
Maybe the long rods are important ?
Would be interesting to see, if he would get the high
current also after a few days of usage..
Maybe he had just rammed the scratched blank surface
copper rod into the earth and so ithas a big surface in the soil.
Normally this only works as a galvanic cell
having around 0.8 to 1 Volts of voltage and
low milliamps current.
But1.8 Amps is really something, so this seems
to generate already around 1 Watts of power(probably the voltage
breaks down, if you short out the rods via the ampmeter...)
But surely you will consume both rods and spoil the earth with it,
so there will be dangerous copper salts and zinc salts
going into the soils, but I don?t know, how dnagerous they are...
Probably not the zinc salts,but probably the copper salts.
So don?t do this at a places where you draw water from a well to drink.
Regards, Stefan.
P.S: A graphite rod and a Magnesium rod would give
the biggest voltage, around 1.5 to 1.8 Volts,
but the Magnesium rod would be consumed very fast.
I wonder how long this copper-zinc cell will
last,if this guy always draws about 1 amp....
Probably not too long...
Also the oxidation on the surface will after some time
raise the impedance and lower the output current a lot !
But just try it...
Stefan:
From what I have read in the patents (Listed on wiki from a google search on earth batteries)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_battery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_battery)
even after a long time in operation there is no breakdown or errosion of the metals. They can be placed very far apart from each other, some say, the farther the better, so I don't see how galvanic corrosion can occur. But, I am no expert in this, I just discovered this a few days ago after reading Localjoe's topic here. I have been reading ever since and done a few experiments as well. The patents make interesting reading and they allude to some pretty decent power outputs. I think this phenomena is related to Tesla's opinions of earth energy, etc. I will try to get up some video after doing a few more experiments. This is easy to replicate and I think that if everyone tries something a little different, there is no telling how much the power might be increased. Localjoe is talking about the use of coils, etc, like in some of the patents.
Stefan, thanks again for this site. If not for it I would have never heard of this very interesting topic, as well as many others.
Bill
I agree theres not many places now days where you can still have an intelligent conversation with someone. Ok so yea I wasn't kidding about the 6 to 8 foot space between the electrodes,in keeping with that if that redox reaction can still take place through that much soil tell me, I didn't think that was possible especially when its been dry. The common factor i"m seeing in these patents as well is the use of an inductor whether to electromagnets or and iron core to make a transformer off of they all have a flavor of it. And does polar alignment affect a redox reaction if so we could lean towards that, if not id say another strike for this not being a galvanic reaction.
Hi Pirate and Localjoe,
if you ever get more than 50 milliamps shortcircuit DC current
out of your setup constantly for a few hours, please let me know.
If you want higher voltages you would need to put more cells in series, but this is problematic,
as if the earth gets wet all the cells will be just in parallel and not in series,
so you could try to insolate each cell from each other , so for instance put a big plastic foil around the
whole cell up to the top ground .
But then probably you will have a pure galvanic cell and no earth EM currents...
Hmm... if you also get AC on there this would also be interesting,
so try to take scope shots of the generated voltages.
Many thanks in advance.
Regards, Stefan.
Hmmm well i have no scope, and i think it would fry the computer program i have because of the voltage, the ac showes up on my analog meter but not my digital one so if that means anything to ya. What im going to try is a transformer im making on a nail just for a test green radio shack 3 pack wire for the secondary like 100 turns and ive got some romex i striped and i think that it would make a nice primary which will connect to the earth electrodes copper and zinc 10 turns. Now the leads of the green rat shack wire should probably be connected to a cap and a resistor ... so I can make some kinda oscillator. Thats another thing that i remember from many diff docs after the current is tapped you must draw from it at a certain intervals to obtain what they claimed sent raw em energy to the wires. On a side note i plan to try a camera flash circuit with this to see how quickly it steps the voltage up and fills the cap more reports tomorrow.
I did some more experiments today....the results are as follows:
6" long x 1/2" dia copper pipe 2" in the ground on north end
3" long block of magnesium (Fire starter block, 1/2" wide) on south side, 18" apart
1.0 vdc and 2.1 vac (Localjoe, this was using my digital craftsman meter)
2 copper pipes (linked together with jumper) sized as listed above on north end about 10" apart
Magnesium block on south end, about 18" from second copper pipe.
1.51 vdc and 0.0 vac
I don't have a scope either but I would love to know the frequency of the vac. Stefan, is there any other way to determine the freq.? I doubt it is 60 cycles, who the hell knows what it might be.
I am looking for a carbon or graphite rod and will try more tomorrow. I wonder if a golf club carbon fiber shaft would work?
I did not check amps yet (forgot) but will do so in different configurations. More to come and some video, or at least pictures.
Bill
Hi Bill, just a DC voltage will also register on the AC scale, so you dont know, if there is real AC.
Too bad you did not check the current, as this is the most important measurement.
The voltage comes from the galvanic action, but how much current could be drawn from it normally depends on the sizes of the metal surfaces. Normally you only have MilliAmps...
How long were your rods ? inches or foots ?
Please quote also in cm.
Many thanks.
Quote from: hartiberlin on November 04, 2007, 01:22:34 PM
Hi Bill, just a DC voltage will also register on the AC scale, so you dont know, if there is real AC.
Too bad you did not check the current, as this is the most important measurement.
The voltage comes from the galvanic action, but how much current could be drawn from it normally depends on the sizes of the metal surfaces. Normally you only have MilliAmps...
How long were your rods ? inches or foots ?
Please quote also in cm.
Many thanks.
Hi Stefan,
It's not clear if pure galvanic effect is the source of the voltage differential and current density capability.
This maybe of interest and would help clarify a possible reason for the observations, DC vs AC frequencies etc:
"Telluric currents flow in the surface layers of the earth. The electric potential on the Earth's surface can be measured at different points,...
The field varies in time and over the frequency range 0.001 to 5 Hz (Krasnogorskaja & Remizov, 1975).
Electric potential gradients caused by telluric currents are of the order of 0.2 to 1000 volts per metre. (Krasnogorskaja and Remizov, 1975; Vanjan, 1975). At any location, the current density is a direct function of the interhemispheric currents and their potential gradients. It has been estimated that telluric currents overall during twelve hours in one hemisphere are in range of 100 to 1000 amperes"
These are some hefty numbers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telluric_current
The galvanic effect can be a factor, acidity near roots, dissimilar metals etc, but how can a voltage be explained with same metals? Or as some experimenters indicate, when the rods are further apart, the numbers actually improve, higher soil dryness helps etc.
Some more here.
http://www.linux-host.org/energy/tearth.htm
@Mike:
Great info on the telluric currents...thanks. Have you done any experiments on this yet?
@Stefan:
Rod measurements are in inches. (Sorry, you know us backward Americans) So, unless I miss my guess, 6" long rods are about 15.3 cm and 1/2 inch dia which should be about 1.27 cm. (I think)
I want to try this with longer rods on both ends and then, try a series connection or two. I was going to try today to light a blue led but, I fried it when I soldered two wires onto the connections. I didn't know they were that heat sensitive or I would have used a heat sink.
Stefan, what kind/type/size capacitor could we used to store up this voltage? I could get one at radio shack if I don't have one lying around here somewhere already. I know they are measured in picofarrads (I think) but have no idea what size to try. I am going there anyway to get a selection of leds.
I think Stefan is right about the surface area/power relationship but I am not sure going deeper is the answer. I am now thinking of buying some rod material (longer) and laying it down horizontally just below the surface, which is where this energy seems to be...at least in my part of the world. I am very interested to know of others work in this area. I will keep you posted on my efforts.
Bill
Get a big capacitor,
like 10000 uF and at least 35 Volts or so...
If you get higher voltages from telluric currents,
it depends on the voltage rating, but whenyou only
have galvanic effect you could
also just buy a 1 Farad 2.5 Volts Supercap.
The bigger the capacity the better you can draw higher currents from
it.
YOu could try to use a gardenway LED solarlamp to power the
LED in it.
Just throw out the solar cell and battery and you have a nice driver circuit
for the included LED in the lamp.
These lamps are very cheap today, normally you get 3 pieces for around 15 US$.
Good luck !
Regards, Stefan.
Stefan:
Good suggestion on the solar lights. They sell them here at a flea market very cheap. (Made in China and not very good) Do I need the driver circuit to light the led? Sorry to be so ignorant but, at least I admit to what I do not know... ha ha. I have lit an led just by direct contact with some jumpers off the tubes in the soil. Would the driver circuit help me and, if so, how?
Also, does anyone know of a good source for magnesium rods and carbon or graphite rods? I am going to go whole hog and try the most difference in the glavanic scale.
I got 2.6 vdc just using a carpenter's pencil sharpened on both ends (graphite) and the magnesium fire starter block. Neither one was planted deeper in the earth than 2.5 cms and about 30 cm apart. (Not optimal) Oh, and as for amps on this trial: .05. I was just playing around but now I want to get either plates, for more surface area, and/or the rod/tubes mentioned above and really sink them deeper. I believe the power is there, we just need to grab it in an efficient manner.
Bill
I just found an 8 foot copper pipe in the basement ;D, just have to cut that to size and find a grounding rod. I don't think the guy in the video said what the metal was but they must be pretty standard, if i can replicate what he did with 1.8 amps.. Im just going to use the camera flash circuit to start with and see how quick it will step the current up.
Localjoe:
I think, and do not know, that grounding rods are galvanized and therefore zinc coated. Wherever you purchase one, they should be able to tell you, I would hope. So far, I have only milliamperes like Stefan said but, I am only in the ground very little with very little surface area. That is about to change and I will post here the results.
Bill
Cool thanks for the info bill, i had a feeling they were zinc .. side note some guy in another thread took the time to delete all of his postings and then claim he was keeping the idea for himself after others had given input and it was not stated at the beginning. Its amazing how some people have it all figured out ... hell he could probably rob cars for a living and make it huge... ya know :o I told him that most times, servers have backups for several days and even weeks then laughed here for a minute when i thought about how there was a time years ago when people in cities left there homes and cars unlocked at night. Too bad human nature has gone so downhill in some areas.
Localjoe:
Yes, I have read all of that. I also posted (in case you didn't see) that he had already "published" his idea and therefore could not receive or maintain a patent. (In my opinion) a lot of people, including myself, have helped him, which is what this site is all about, or, supposed to be. He will be back when his idea does not work, it is flawed.
I have, at times, thought I was also on the verge of a breakthrough. I asked myself if I would publish my findings and a video here and elsewhere. I hessitated only for a moment and decided that yes, I would like nothing better than to share any success with the people here who just might, not only be able to replicate it, but to possibly improve my resutls. No money for me but, if I were in this for the money, I should just get a second job.
What I am trying to say is that I understand his thought process but, once people here provide input, and someone accepts this input, I think it is too late to decide to "keep it to yourself."
If we have a breakthrough on the earth batteries, I am pretty sure the prior patents have expired. But, for me, this is not the point. I would want to use it for myself, and my friends and, have the people here think of ways to improve it that we never even thought of. Society wins.....that's enough for me.
Don't take my word for the galvanized grounding rod being zinc coated.....if I knew this to be true, I would say I knew....I think this is the case, but check it out. Interesting results I got with a pencil using the graphite. Big improvement in vdc. If I can find a graphite rod about 1" in diameter and a magneisum rod of about the same dia and both about 4' long....I might have a good starting point.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on November 05, 2007, 01:22:38 AM
@Mike:
Great info on the telluric currents...thanks. Have you done any experiments on this yet?
@Stefan:
Rod measurements are in inches. (Sorry, you know us backward Americans) So, unless I miss my guess, 6" long rods are about 15.3 cm and 1/2 inch dia which should be about 1.27 cm. (I think)
I want to try this with longer rods on both ends and then, try a series connection or two. I was going to try today to light a blue led but, I fried it when I soldered two wires onto the connections. I didn't know they were that heat sensitive or I would have used a heat sink.
Stefan, what kind/type/size capacitor could we used to store up this voltage? I could get one at radio shack if I don't have one lying around here somewhere already. I know they are measured in picofarrads (I think) but have no idea what size to try. I am going there anyway to get a selection of leds.
I think Stefan is right about the surface area/power relationship but I am not sure going deeper is the answer. I am now thinking of buying some rod material (longer) and laying it down horizontally just below the surface, which is where this energy seems to be...at least in my part of the world. I am very interested to know of others work in this area. I will keep you posted on my efforts.
Bill
Hi Pirate88179,
Yes, the first thing I tried was to see if it?s pure galvanic effect or not, so I used the obvious. Two same metals. If it?s pure galvanic, then there should be no voltage potential across them.
Well, it measures about 29 milivolts and about 0.012 miliamps across a 2.2k resistance.
The 2 zinc coated nails are about 3/8? dia, 12? long driven in the ground about 2.5 feet apart to a same depth of about 10?. Those two were about N to S aligned. The ground was fairly wet though, due to recent showers. (according to some readings, dryer ground maybe better)
These nails are the common coated nails you can get for your local hardware store garden section or building materials section.
If you want more depth exposure, you may try some common galvanized pipe (eg water pipe ?? or solid electrical zinc coated conduit pipe) for the first rod and maybe some plain copper pipe for the second. and ofc the old mighty sledgehammer
Let us know if you also try same metals to see if you can get any V and A
I hope this helps.
BTW nice work, getting 2.6 V and 50 mA with your setup. It may not be much, but a number of them may make a nice night light arrangement for eg a flower garden at night.
@ Mike:
I am glad to see others here experimenting. I truly believe that no one on this planet at this time knows exactly what can be produced from this. My soil is not anywhere near perfect. (I live in an apartment) I don't have much room and, so far, I have only used items I can find around my house for the tests. I am just amazed that I got ANY positive results and this makes me really wonder what might happen if I purchased materials and spent more time in experimentaion. I really also wonder what others might find in their own areas of the world. This site is obviously worldwide and who knows what might work here, but not in Europe, or, the other way around.
From what I have read in the patents, there are amps available here. One of my friends said to me...."So what, even if you get 2 amps and 50 volts......so what?" So what? It is free and in the earth and, what if a lot of people experiment with this and then who knows what might be realized. He told his wife that if we have a blackout that Bill can run an led in his garden. I say...today an led, tomorrow.....the whole house. (OK maybe need a few more weeks for that, ha ha)
Bill
Bill
2.5 Volts is already very nice, but the magnesium will be consumed very fast, if you drive an LED or other load with it.
Try with two graphite rods. These are very inert and will not be consumed, so then you would only run it on telluric currents, but then the voltage will be only millivolts probably.
Be cautious not to hit ground high voltage lines..! Good luck.
Stefan:
I would love to use graphite rods of any real size. I have not found any locally. Is there some place you know of to get these? I have found several places on-line but I have to order 50 pieces min. We need to get the amps up for this to be useful I think. I am thinking surface area like you said earlier. A lot of the early patents describe using plates, not rods or tubes. Surface area may be the key to higher amps. And yes, I was hoping I would not hit any burried power lines while trying this. Great amps readings for a moment, then death.
Bill
Graphite rods are very hard to come by these days...
Try at your local welder shop... They are still used as electrodes for cutting steel.
You might also try a stainless steel metal mesh. these are also very inert and have a high surface area...
Eds true value baby, 1.99 for the 4 pack of 12 inch ones, if you have lowes or true value try them like steffan said in the welding sections
Excellent! I will check that out. Thanks.
Bill
I was thinking you could use copper and galvanized wool. I have seen some online stores that sell it in a fine mesh or wool form, and I think it would have a good surface area. I'll see if stainless steel or graphite comes in these forms.
You know i thought about it for a second, this replication worked in an insulated pot with dirt and a plant.... showed same voltage .7-.9 vdc but with no current. Curent is present in normal earth tho in excess of 300 micro amperes for me so far and is getting bettter. So in english the current only shoes up in real earth ground not soil in insulated pot. So it might be safe to say the current im getting is not from a galvanic reaction yet that reaction may me necessary on a small level to tap the magnetic field of the earth to then draw current? And to support reports of electrodes not decaying or being used up i bet the magnetic feild protects them to an extent..
Hi guys my firsy post here.
Ive been reading this thread with great interest and tried a little test of my own with a 30mm carbon rod and a small 30mm copper nail and managed 1.4VDC and 1.5VAC with a simple multimeter, so now im kind of hooked on improving these results and sharing any info as i believe this is the only way to progress.
Were do you suppose the energy is coming from, stored solar energy, energy stored from falling rain drops, magnetic field or maybe a combination ....?.
great forum by the way
chad.
Welcome Chad:
Read the post with the link on Telluric Currents. This gives some possible explanations of the origins of these currents although, like a lot of things, I don't think anyone really knows for sure. What I like about experimenting in this area is that it won't take much money or equipment to be getting cutting edge results. I have read everything on line that I could find on this subject and there is not all that much out there. Keep us posted on your results. I'm off to buy some graphite welding rods.
Bill
Thanks Chad and welcome,
Right now i think we've all come to the conclusion thus far that this is a combination of a galvanic redox reaction and some kind of tap for what we could call magnetic current or tell auric current. Since were all trying different electrodes now please keep posting your results and I will compile a table spreadsheet thing of our findings . I'll make 2 columns, one for each electrode and have rows as such. Material or Metal Composition of the electrode, dimensions length and diameter if possible, how far they were inserted in the earth, distance from one another, and results on voltage and current differentiation via depth of electrodes. Thanks folks, hopefully we'll have some free lighting for everyone soon.
My latest results
4 foot copper pipe 1/2 inch in diam i used coarse sand paper to make about 3 foot of it nice and dull and scratched up
i found a small piece of grounding rod ,zinc i had for a coil winding jig and used it about 2 feet quarter inch in diameter
I put the grounding rod in the earth about foot and half or less and copper pipe in about 2 feet. I'm reading 1.2 volts and 1.3 millamps on my meter now ;D ;D. Big improvement from my 300 micro amps with the small pieces i used earlier. I neglected this time to align these with a compass and they were approx 2 or 3 foot apart so around a meter. It started hailing out of nowhere and then lightning.. blue sky all around it too weird i took off running for the deck after I saw the first flash above my head thinking hmmm not a good idea to hold these pieces of metal near this tree during a storm. Hopefully it will clear up soon so i can go back out.
Joe
A couple of years ago I messed around with this a tiny bit just using a couple of nails in the ground and got some voltages. Similar to what you folks are seeing. I'm in the desert so the ground being wet really isnt part of the equation at least for my situation.
At the time what I thought I might be picking up was the feedback loop from the electrical companies. As I understand it they supposedly use the earth to complete the electrical circuit back to their generation stations. I dont know if this is more theory or fact but I wondered if what I was seeing was the energy flowing in the earth back towards the substation.
If that were true I figured I could test the theory out by going way out into the middle of no where away from any electricity and see if I got the same results. But I never got around to testing that part out.
@Localjoe:
Great job! Big improvement in a short time. This is what interests me. Thanks for volunteering to do the spreadsheet, I think this will quickly allow us to compile information to guide us in the right direction. I went out today looking for graphite welding rods. Two places did not carry them but there are many more here to check. I was on a surveillance until 11:00 p.m. CDT so I didn't get a chance to look further. Right now, I am all over the place in my attempts but soon, I will settle down to a more scientific approach with depth, distance between electrodes, compass headings, materials, etc.
@Arioch:
Welcome. I don't disagree with your idea. When I think of all of the electrons that are "pumped" in to the ground every day from all of the electrical circuits, it might have something to do with this. Also, lightning strikes as well. The cool thing is...right now, I don't think anyone knows! We could be as right, or wrong, as a any scientist in the world. I want to max out readings with the rods and then move on to plates for more surface area and then, maybe coil arrangements like Localjoe was discussing.
One more thought...Localjoe, you said during your experiments a thunder storm came up out of nowhere? The same thing happened to me on Sunday. I joked with a friend of mine saying that I must have disturbed the balance of the earth's charge and he laughed. It did not rain, just huge lightning strikes and thunder for about 40 minutes. Coincidence????? I pulled my rods out just to be safe! Chaos theory: we stick rods in the ground here, and somewhere in China a fuse blows.
Bill
http://www.icehouse.net/john34/groundradio.html
Thanks for the warm welcom bill.
Ok did a few tests last night with the following, copper, graphite, carbon, zinc plated screws, steel, brass, i found for me the best combination were "graphite" and "zinc plated screws", the next best were the copper and the zinc plated screws but the graphite seemed a little better in place of the copper.
I also found that the soil doesnt need to be in contact with the earth, i took some soil and isolated it from the ground by putting it in a small container and placing it on the side board in my workshop, the size of the container is 60mm OD X 60mm Height, the voltage was i got was aprox 0.8 VDC. with the graphite and zinc screw about 50mm apart the same distance i used in the garden for the purposes of this test.
Then i toyed with the idea of tryng different earth materials other than soil, well my first test was plain old builders sand (red sand) i did the same proccess of isolating a small sample from the rest and again i got a voltage of around 0.8VDC.
well then i wanted to see if i could gain more by linking a number of small cells together...well it worked, i linked 7 cells together in series and got a initial voltage of 5.60VDC, the voltage dropped at a steady rate until it reached 4.60vdc then it seemed to stabilise.
I wanted to test the cells under load to see how they lasted, well all i have is 6v led's so i hooked one up and the voltage dropped to 1.71vdc it gave a dull but visable glow, so i left this hooked up over night with the meter connected aswell and heres the final readings.
start of the test
starting voltage DC 4.60v
Starting voltage AC 8.4v
Starting voltage under load 1.71vdc
Starting MAh.......1717m (digital meter)
Results 8 hours later
finnishing voltage DC 3.7dcv
finnishing voltage AC 6.3 vac
finnishing voltage underload 1.69vdc
finnishing MAh......1689m (digital meter)
these tests were conducted using ordinary red builders sand!, im going to run more test now but im going to be making a few changes to see what the outcome will be.
not a bad start.
sorry about the post modifications i noticed some mistakes.
Ok thats real cool chad i wasen't able to get any discernible current out of my pot setup with dirt but i will check it out again. Bill, i agree fully and encourage folks testing these things with us to start with rod style electrodes as we are so we can get a good data sheet on it then move to, experimenting with plates, make a data sheet on that and further a few coil setups once we all have a better understanding on the data at that point. I read a few of the tellauric patents last night and i still saw the electromagnet/inductor present strung between them and with a transformer so this must be some kinda pulsed dc or how else would the transformer work?
Chad last question your ampreage rating is that 1770 millaamps or microamps.
Quote from: Chad on November 07, 2007, 05:56:12 AM
Starting MAh.......1717m (digital meter)
finnishing MAh......1689m (digital meter)
Hi Chad,
many thanks for these tests, but what do you mean by these numbers ?
Did you put your ampmeter on the milliAmps scale and measured the
shortout current the cells can give off ?
So does 1717m means 1.721 milliamps ?
So about 1.7 milliamps seems right, when the cell is not very wet
and as you have it in a seperate container, you just have a galvanic cell,
no telluric currents.
But the objective is here to get more power output via the telluric
currents.
I wonder, where they could be got the best way, in a forrest
near trees or near houses were the return wires from the electric power
companies might create them ?
I already tried many galvanic cells and saltwater cells
and only via telluric currents you could get a bigger power output.
so I wonder, how this other guy could get 1.8 amperes from his
pipes,that sounds really very big as the galvanicoutput is mostly
only in the 10s of milliamps at the maimum, normally under 10 milliamps
(DC short circuit current), if you don?t use disruptive chemicals with it like
chlor bleaches or acids or something like this..
Regards, Stefan.
Hi stefan, sorry about that what you say is right 1.7 milliamps, so it looks as though im describing microamps :-[ , im pretty new to all this so il il keep plugging away and promise to get it right next time :D
il be back ;)
1.7milliamps is pretty good. I cut up an old graphite golfing shaft, into 3 pieces and got 3.5 milliamps, but low voltage around 1.9, which barely lit a led. I'm sure I can get it to light brightly if I use more cells. Graphite works a lot better than copper. I think the more (+) material, the more amps, and the more (-) the more voltage, in proportion to one another. My goal is to light my 3 watt luxeon led :).
@Chad:
Great results so far, keep it up!
@Freezer:
Keep up your efforts also. I went to 4 places today to try to buy a graphite welding rod but no one had any. I have a golf club shaft that is some form of graphite, I might try to utilize that.
@Localjoe:
Man, you started a great topic here. I hope it continues to take off and we can publish some great results!!! I am again tomorrow seeking materials.
Bill
I'm sure I've seen more then 5 websites about this ground battery stuff. I didn't pay much attention until I see the plans on ebay. (don't have a link for that either :P) I don't remember it 100% but there was one plan who dug a hole covered it with plastic, then made lasagna using layers of earth and big plates of copper and zinc. Go deep, make it cover a large area. I think they just put them in series and parallel.
If your rods have 1 A and 1 V then you need 1000 times as much surface for 1 kw
If it's only 10 mA * 1V you would need 10 000 times as much surface to make 100V * 10A
The surface of 1x1m plates is quite a bit bigger as that of a single rod. I wasn't really that interested as I thought it was probably some evil chemical reaction I wouldn't want to have in my garden. But if one can isolate the earth that changes everything. :)
Hummm didn't Don Adsitt have plans on his site?
leme search...
http://www.theverylastpageoftheinternet.com/forsale/plans/earthbattery/ebpage1.htm
(note to self: Adsitt with 2 times the t)
@ Gaby:
Thanks very much for the link. This never came up in any of my internet searches. I have not read all of it yet, but I will. This goes with Stefan's premise that the more surface area you have, the more amps you can produce. It is consistant with the patents we have read. Thanks again.
PS Have you tried any of this yet? If so, what were your findings?
BIll
BTW, you can make your own conductive graphite powder from burning coal pellets.
Have a search in the battery section.
My girlfriend gave me the tip to try this.. :)
Then you could also use this conductive graphite powder to make graphite "paper" which has a huge surface and so you could make your own huge surface graphite paper plates.
Surely you need then to make sure the soil is not too wet, so the paper does not dissolve...I am at my PDA at the moment, so I am posting the links later...
But they are all here in the "battery" section.
P.S. Is there any chemical glue , that is not water dissolveable and will still conduct okay, when graphite powder is mixed into it ?
This would be needed to get longer lasting conductive graphite paper plates. Maybe graphite could be mixed with some 2 component glue and this will still be enough conductive ?
Quote from: Pirate88179 on November 07, 2007, 11:23:21 PM
@ Gaby:
Thanks very much for the link. This never came up in any of my internet searches.
Google cant read text from images jet. But if you look at their patent search it's not far away :)
QuoteI have not read all of it yet, but I will. This goes with Stefan's premise that the more surface area you have, the more amps you can produce.
Yeah, up to some point I think the location matters the most. Or maybe it's better to call it the soil if it also works isolated.
QuoteIt is consistant with the patents we have read. Thanks again.
I'm curious what kind of effect charging this battery would have. ^_^
QuotePS Have you tried any of this yet? If so, what were your findings?
BIll
ha-ha, I'm trying to avoid everything that doesn't relate to permanent magnet motors. Just that is already to much work for me alone. I already drew a gravity engine by accident. :-[ It's an awful design, it doesn't seem to want to get debunked. No it appears the invention wants to be build by me specifically. hehehe
You should make a website about the earth battery, having wikipeida as the NR 1 result is pathetic. We should be ashamed as a species. :D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_battery
Earth battery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It's not a bad wiki, it doesn't say
"this innovation was debunked by a 12 year old skepticus who doesn't know anything about the topic" like wikipeida does about most free energy inovations (if it even allows them to have a page.) They merge stan meyer with the waterfullcell? O_O Maybe we can merge Bush with the patriot act? lolzz?? Maybe that's just a weird thing to do? no?
But if you look at the talk page you can see the disinformation brigade spew everything they can make up. Ow how this article needs to be deleted? When listing facts everything needs a source but when debunking things we can just take random opinions and use that. ROFL
Don adsitt correctly says there is galvanic action going on. But some guy on the wiki talk page says he tested it and the galvanic reaction should produce a far smaller current as what he got.
Adsitt's link obviously appeared on the page a hundred times.
My gut says this is the ancient art we are talking about here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomancy
Geomancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I recognize this
QuoteIn recent times the term has been applied to a wide range of other occult, fringe, and pseudoscientific activities, including Bau-Biologie. This article deals with geomancy in its traditional meaning.
This is the handwriting of the disinformation brigade.
on the other page wikipedia says:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bau-Biologie
Quoteis a science that investigates the indoor living environment for a variety of irritants. It is a comprehensive science that considers our living environment as an organism, and considers how its functioning can produce a restful or stressful environment. Far from being "fringe science", its experiential findings provide robust guidelines to use in building a healthy home, or healing one that is sick.
The disinformation brigade clearly was not as interested in Bau as in the earth battery. Surely if it was a fringe science it wouldn't have a page in wikipedia. The page says "FAR FROM BEING FRINGE". Does it need to be more clear then that?
I think our agent bubbie found a great excuse in that to be able to delete a lot of information from the page. Lets have a look....
ah-ha
From the first contribution to the geomancer page.
Quotea kind of divination by means of figures or lines, formed by little dots or points, originally on the earth, and latterly on paper.
This was changed into:
Quoteis a method of divination that interprets markings on the ground.
Now look what happened here:
"little dots or points" is less accurate as "markings" no question about this.
"in the ground and later on paper" has changed into just "ground". Which is less accurate.
Later the word ground is even replaced by dirt. That's probably more scientific right?
It's not a kind of divination that interpreters markings.
It is the means of divination.
It's like saying it's a kind of car mechanic that repairs cars.
they make the markings. They don't just interpret them.
A kind of car mechanic who looks at defective cars??
Now do you see how much lies got injected into that single line? I'm not that confused by this but I bet it's confusing enough for some. I'm at least confused enough not to be able to build an earth battery from the info..... lol
How do we get the numbers on the galvanic action? How many years would it take to show? What to compare it to?
Poking a hole in the ground reminds me of an old story about condoms being promoted in some native place. The next year they return and they see the condom over a pole exactly the way they had demonstrated it. Before sex they pull it over the stick and put it in front of the hut.
The person demonstrating the earth battery probably took his rods with him?
All knowledge that remains is the poking of the holes? We know that part is probably correct, now guess what else did they do?
It reminds me of those wands the ancient egyptians hold. Those are said to be made of 2 different materials and to affect their user in some way.
Would Galvanic action be comfortable in your hands?
I cant imagine....
Well thats an interesting theory but were trying to keep on track with our current experiments so if you have any ideas on how that applies to the rod elrctrode testing phase were in please share your results and how geomancing increased your results vs what has been posted so far. And remember to take the measurements defined earlier in the thread if possible to share and compare.
Thanks
Joe
Aright I cant help myself with this one 8), What would a necromancer do then? Survey the dead.
Well, I have exhausted all of my local sources for graphite or carbon rods so now, I am awaiting quotes from internet companies. This is frustrating!
@Stefan:
I guess one could make a graphite rod but, when you use glue, or any other binder, you will decrease the electrical properties proportionally. the best graphite rods are iso-pressed, isostatically pressed at thousand of psi. My old company, which I lost in my divorce, had a supply room of thousands of ceramic and graphite materials, sorted by size and material compostion. I tested one of my graphite/carbon composite golf shafts and it has a continuity reading of zero, if you scrape off the gloss finish and paint. I am also searching for magnesium rods, or will settle for zinc if I have to.
I want to get on with this!!!!!!
Bill
guys look at http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,948.msg46100.html#msg46100
Quote from: Pirate88179 on November 08, 2007, 11:06:47 PM
Well, I have exhausted all of my local sources for graphite or carbon rods so now, I am awaiting quotes from internet companies. This is frustrating!
@Stefan:
I guess one could make a graphite rod but, when you use glue, or any other binder, you will decrease the electrical properties proportionally. the best graphite rods are iso-pressed, isostatically pressed at thousand of psi. My old company, which I lost in my divorce, had a supply room of thousands of ceramic and graphite materials, sorted by size and material compostion. I tested one of my graphite/carbon composite golf shafts and it has a continuity reading of zero, if you scrape off the gloss finish and paint. I am also searching for magnesium rods, or will settle for zinc if I have to.
I want to get on with this!!!!!!
Bill
Hi Bill,
the advancement of normal or earth batteries can only occur, if we find
a binder, which is not walter solveable and which can bind graphite to
textil or paper or other forms of bigger surface material without degrading the
conductivity of graphite.
So has anyone tried different forms of glue to get this ?
Many thanks.
Quote from: Pirate88179 on November 08, 2007, 11:06:47 PM
Well, I have exhausted all of my local sources for graphite or carbon rods so now, I am awaiting quotes from internet companies. This is frustrating!
@Stefan:
I guess one could make a graphite rod but, when you use glue, or any other binder, you will decrease the electrical properties proportionally. the best graphite rods are iso-pressed, isostatically pressed at thousand of psi. My old company, which I lost in my divorce, had a supply room of thousands of ceramic and graphite materials, sorted by size and material compostion. I tested one of my graphite/carbon composite golf shafts and it has a continuity reading of zero, if you scrape off the gloss finish and paint. I am also searching for magnesium rods, or will settle for zinc if I have to.
I want to get on with this!!!!!!
Bill
Bill have you tied these guys, they seem to have lotts of usefull graphite rods and blocks ......includes prices aswell.
http://www.graphitestore.com/items_list.asp/action/prod/prd_id/70/cat_id/22
chad.
I spoke yeasterday with an engineer friend, who has some
experience with house-electricity connections, rules and reglementations, etc...
He told me, that the earth is very conductive !
About under 10 Ohms for 1 km length.
So he also said, that due to this ,ground currents can easily
flow inside the earth.
Also there are always leaking currents from bad isolation
household devices, which flow via the grounding of the houses back to the transformer
stations inside the earth. Along this path there will be voltage potentials to be able to be tapped.
Also electric train rails and high voltage powerline masts have huge earth currents nearby.
So this guy, who got 1.8 amps must be probably living near a heavy usage
electricity location, where many leakage currents go through the earth.
As the earth together with the rods you want to stick in it
can be seen as a big potentiometer, it depens where you tap
the resistance to get a voltage and thus a current.
So in general, if you just use 2 copper rods,so you have no galvanic action
and just tap ground currents, the voltage will be bigger, if the 2 copper
rods are farther away from each other, cause then you have more earth resistance
between it and thus the voltage will be higher.
But then you need of course a current inside the earth, that also flows
exactly into the direction of the 2 rods.
So all in all, if you want not just the galvanic
action, that consumes the metals,but to research and extract real ground currents,
you need to go to a place,where there are no power lines or transformers
nearby, so you can really test the pure earth currents from natural sources....
But I guess, then these would be pretty small and thus the output power
would be also pretty low...
I spoke again today with my friend and he told me, that
steel inside cement is acting like a copper material in
the dissimular metal chart !
That is very astounding to me.
So you can replace expensive copper by just normal
steel and put the steel into cement "wrapping".
This is probably also one electrode in Steve Ryan?s
www.biosfuel.org
urine battery.
The other electrode was said to be Titanmesh metal.
Regards, Stefan.
I just tried with 2 iron nails being about 30cm long and putting them about 25 cm into the
earth about 1 meter away in front of my house,where I live
and there was no voltage on them.
The soil was still pretty wet from showers the last days..
I also used then one iron nail and a copper pipe and I just had about
0.15 Volts on them, but this is just from the galvanic action.
Normally you need to put these rods at least 1.5 to 2 Meters deep into the
earth,otherwise you will not see any effect at all.
So my rods were probably not deep enough and there were no ground currents
on the surface.
I sticked them into north-south direction also...
Regards, Stefan.
I'm In the Adirondack park, Upstate NY, I think that classifies as out there... So if i have a chance this weekend i have a mountain like 5 mins from my house that i can try this at. However much difference this will make from my house in the city which is still a small town i don't know, but it would show how much leakage penetrates the city.
@Chad:
Thanks for the link. I looked at that site last night and it was the only one I found that actually listed prices. I found a local supplier, who is out of stock, but ordered me a carbon rod 3/4 inch dia x 17 inches long!! ($21.77 USD) That should do it. He said it would arrive in about a week. (sigh) He also had magnesium rod but it was coated with iron powder for welding purposes, not good for us I think.
So, I will put the carbon rod to the north, and on the south side, I guess I will have to use a zinc grounding rod or something like that. I should see at least 1.4 to 1.5 volts from the galvanic difference and, hopefuly due to the depth and larger surface area, a good increase in amps. I know I have been saying this but I will video this and post it once I get the materials. This should be more than enough to light an led pretty well I should hope.
@Stefan:
When I got my best readings so far, I used a pencil sharpened on both ends and a magnesium fire started block and they were each only in the ground about 1/2 inch and about 1 meter away from each other. Make sure you align to the true north/south meridian and not magnetic north. You need to check a detailed map for your area to see what the declination is or, just stab around where you think it is and take your best readings.
I agree there is some kind of galvanic action going on, to a point but remember, when you read the patents and other info posted, that bleed currents from bad electrical installations, which I am sure exist everywhere now, did not exist then as no one had electricity! The earth gets charged and discharged through lightning strikes, etc and some say the spinning molten core is like a generator of sorts, who knows?
@ Localjoe:
Have you tried the welding rods yet? The guy in the video with the led said one of his rods was a grounding rod. I found one at Home Depot that was 8 foot long. It was some kind of metal that was copper clad. No one seemed to know what kind of metal it was. Maybe, being copper on the outside, it acts like a solid copper rod? I'll see what I can find on the net about that. In the meantime, I am on hold for about a week...of course, I will try a few other things here and there while I am waiting. Thanks.
Bill
Hi guys,
Nice to see that research is going on with earth batteries. A year ago I spent several days experimenting with different materials. Unfortunately I threw away my results, but I had some voltage with copper & aluminium. I also used a zinc coated rod. Basically, position in the ground and distance had no effect on voltage. In the end I built 3 trays of soil (topsoil) and connected them in series. I was able to power an LED with 1.6V / 16 mA but when I checked the next day it had gotten dim. It seemed to be purely galvanic.
I do believe that a coil/capacitor that could capture current and resonate at the very low frequencies pulsing through our planet (1-15 Hz) would change everything. I'm no coil expert but 60 Hz ac is quit low and that is simple to resonate. I guess it would not be too difficult to calculate the number of turns for a coil. We could also try a variable capacitor such as is used in tv/radio tuners and then use a scope to look at the output waveforms and determine if there is a point that begins to resonate.
Does anyone want to try that?
@ akashh:
Glad to see you here. I would love to persue the coil approach but, I have no real education or knowledge in this area. A lot of the afore mentioned patents speak of coils. I think now we are all trying to "max out" the differential metals potential and then, we will move to coils, etc. I have one thought on the coil approach. Stefan mentioned that amps were probably proportional to the surface area exposed to the telluric currents and this is most likely the case. A coil would be an easy way to increase surface area. As far as stepping up the voltage and decreasing the amps, I am familiar with Ohm's law but have no idea how to design or calculate the number of turns, etc.
I can't wait for my carbon rod to show up.
Bill
Yes, I've been experimenting with activated carbon (used in water filters) which is a conductor. I was trying to build an aluminium-air battery with it but still didnt get time to finish it. Anyway, that should be easy to come by in particle size - mine are about 3mm grains. You can just pour some out and put some form of wiremesh in-between to capture electricity uniformly by connecting a wire to it. By applying pressure to it you get much better conductivity. Why not try that out?
To maximize the telluric currents capturing, it might be justthe simplest thing
to burry a few stainless steel mesh metal "sheets" vertically into the earth at least about 2 to 3 meters
deep.
Probably the deeper you go the better it gets ?
Hmm, must be tried, but I don?t have access right now for a soil to try it on..
Maybe some of you who have a farm land can try it away from any power grids...
Good luck.
Regards, Stefan.
Update, Initial tests.
But first things first.
I?ve arranged with the Utilities Protection Services to come out to the property, identify and locate (spray and flag) any underground cables and their location. They also do the gas, sewer and water lines.
They?ve located the power cables, the telephone, and TV cable.
May I suggest at this point to anyone who?s delving into digging or driving any conductors in their yard to do the same as a safety precaution. The cables are not very deep. From a couple of feet for power cables to few inches for TV and telephone.
Ok back to the test parameters
Tested first for galvanic effect if any.
Used 2 Zinc Hot Dipped Nails 12? long 3/8? Dia ( 30cm L x 1 cm Dia) ~ 65 cents cost
Driven into the ground to a depth of 10 Inches (25 cm)
Aligned North and South
Distance apart 23 feet (7 m)
Safe distance from any underground cables/pipes etc over 75ft ( 22.5 m)
There are no transformers in this street, the closest drop per the utility ppl is over half a mile away. (.8 km)
Readings
No resistor
Voltage 57 mV DC
Current 0.051 mA
Also shorted the gap and immediately tested again, the same readings shown
Flipped the multimeter test leads and both V and A were reading negative (-) same values. (assured multimeter was not pumping the setup etc)
Across 10.1 Ohm resistor
Voltage 2 mV DC
Current 0.005 mA
Across 1024 Ohm resistor (~1KOhm)
Voltage 28mV DC
0.045 mA
No VAC was detected.
Next planning on using metal conduit pipe ?? OD (1.23cm)
Got a 10 foot (3 m) length cut in half so I can get over a meter into the ground, but it started raining (getting close to freezing point too) so will have to wait and when more time is available. Interested to see the effect if any of more ground contact area. Apparently distance is not much of a factor, if anyhting it seems to help. But only limited testing so far...
Some other combinations may include, metal conduit and copper pipe (both ?? Dia) and
orienting the conductors East-West to see if there is any effects. Also looking into Al pipe.
Again this does not appear to be pure galvanic effect or it should be reading zeros.
Maybe we need to do this, way out in the woods as another member also suggested.
Thanks
G'day all,
Have a look at this article. Could this mechanism offer part of the explanation for the phenomenon?
http://www.biomassmagazine.com/article.jsp?article_id=1363&q=&page=all
Hope this helps in your research.
Hans von Lieven
Hans:
Excellent article. We appreciate your input. I guess it is possible that these microbes are in the ground soil and generating electricity. Since, from what I have read, no one knows exactly where this power comes from, then that means that no one can say where it isn't coming from.
@mikestocks:
Very good recomendation on the burried cable location service. It wouldn't do to drive a conducting rod into a powerline. Possibly free energy for a while if one lived through it, but not a good idea. I obtained similar results with two copper pipes, which should eliminate the galvanic angle. I am still going to use carbon and either zinc or magnesium to see what happens. My best results are in polar alignement N/S not magnetic N/S.
@Stefan:
The mesh sheets you speak of would have a ton of surface area for their size. I had a similar thought when looking through the metals department in a hardware store. I was checking out the expanded metal sheets (with the diamond shaped hole patterns) and I asked what material they were made of and I was told "metal". Wow, that really narrows it down. Stainless should work I would think. I am not sure if you burry it paralell to the n/s meridian or across it? I guess 90 degrees to it would allow for more interception of the currents. A lot of experimentation here. I bought some alligator clips to make some longer jumper wires and a few leds as well. (Radio shack)
Bill
Guys, I just came across this topic. Sorry to bust this topic but it is not new. My cousin in Poland has a neighbor who is selling electricity to the grid using this principle for about 10 years. The only thing is that he sticks his electrodes into big pile of city waste. Everyone is saying that he make electricity from garbage. When asked how it works, he doesn't really wants to talk about it. Hartiberlin, the funny thing is that he learned it, from someone in Germany. Obviously someone in your country knows this for years!
George
@George:
First, welcome to this topic.
Second, no one claimed that this is "new" as evidenced by the patents listed in the early posts dating from the 1800's. That is interesting information about your cousin in Poland. If he is selling them why does his company not come up anywhere in a search for earth batteries? Possibly he is not on the internet. Also, you said he is using waste areas which might be related to Hans's recent post here.
Can we get more information on your cousin? Things like, what is he selling? Kits? How much? How much power is he able to obtain? Any of this would be very helpful I think. I am glad he is working on this idea.
If you cousin can speak/write English, or if you can translate for him...and he has access to the internet, why not invite him to this forum and topic? I know you said he won't give any secrets away, and that's fine. I would just be interested in whatever he might feel like telling us. Thanks.
Bill
Bill,
Just to clarify,
Not my cousin - his neighbor does it.
He is just producing pure AC which he sells to the grid.
He does not sell any kit, or work on it.
How much power he can produce? According to my cousin, his neighbor doesn't work anywhere else. He is just living selling power to the grid.
I will attempt to get more info from my cousin about this technology. However I tried to do this 2 years ago without much of a success. I did some research on the internet and actually found nothing at all either. According to my cousin this technology is used in Germany where his neighbor learned about it.
George
George:
Thanks. Yes please see what you can find out. Maybe we should have Stefan look around in his country to find out about this technology. So, I see, he just sells the power to the grid for money. (Boy, I would love to do that) Sorry I was confused that it was your cousin. Sometimes I read these posts too fast. Please keep us posted.
@ Stefan:
Have you heard of anyone in Germany doing this? Of course, the people that are doing it are most likely going to keep quiet about it like George's cousin's neighbor. Maybe you could make a few inquiries?
Bill
Bill, I just sent email to Poland. Let's see what is going on now.
My original intention posting here was to "redirect" experiments into biological waste. Myself cannot do it as I live in tight neighborhood, and making my own biological waste cell is out of questions because of the smell. Someone who lives in more open areas could try to dump garbage into the drum or hole in the ground for some time and then try to measure voltage.
George
G'day George and all,
Please read the article I have posted above. What your Polish mate does seems to be the same thing. They have been experimenting with breeding these microbes in garbage and extracting electricity from it, albeit in smallish quantities. Perhaps the fellow in Poland found an efficient way of doing this.
Hans von Lieven
EDIT: here is another link: http://www.bu.edu/research/spotlight/2007/biology/microbes/index.shtml
They are talking about 100 watt per cubic meter and are aiming to achieve 10 times that.
forward the video to about 20 minutes and see...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4591847614090637731&q=soil+battery&total=11&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=5
edit - sorry i though it was some kind of soil battery but it turned out to be some kind of vinegar type battery.
also see http://ops.dot.gov/regs/small_ng/Chapter3.htm
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fops.dot.gov%2Fregs%2Fsmall_ng%2Fimages%2FChapter3_img_11.png&hash=d36bdfdfb743dcab981a08d745f870c691540c60)
Thanks for the new input folks , ive almost got the chart structure done and i can finally go out and test a few more things today updates in a few hrs. I did measure the freq and duty cycle with my meter today forgot about the little hz symbol, anyways it said 60 hz fluctuating to 59 and back and a 45.4 % duty cycle. now when i moved the electrodes a little closer it changed to about 40 hz and other sporadic readings but im positive im not hitting anything except dirt and tree roots and theres no power lines above me so just an update.
@ Localjoe:
That's interesting. The information on the telluric currents on google said the freq. of the earth should be 1 to 5 Hz, very low frequency. Your result is dangerously close to the 60 cycle current supplied by the power companies, which, if you meter it, fluctuates as well within certain limits. What did you measure the freq. with? My meter won't do that, I thought it took an oscilloscope but, I am very far from knowledgeable in this area. Good luck with your explorations. I am still in a holding pattern waiting my carbon rod delivery.
Bill
Its the digital one from radio shack that is a step down from the one with a pc interface it says hz right next to contunity and it has duty cycle as a secondary function. the freq changed with depth but didn't stay constant at the 60 when i changed the depths very interesting. The 60 hz didnt show up unless i put the electrodes n to south well i still cant find my compass so i looked at a top down map and made a best guess.
Guys,
Got reply from Poland. Sorry for disinformation. The guy is not using electrodes but pipes to recover methane gas to power converted diesel engine with generator. Well, next time I will check facts first, before I open my mouth.
George
George:
Thanks for the update. Still, he is selling power back to the power company and that should interest some people here on this site. Not an earth battery but....still very useful info.
Bill.
Hi
I'm in on this too.
It was too stormy here all day and when it cleared I put a piece of rebar and a 10 " by 2 " copper plate into the surface of the ground (no deeper than 1"). they were sort of N-S and I got a steady .16V sometimes and a cycling from .18V to 0 . Then I connected between the copper plate and the the shovel I had propped up next to the rebar and got a very steady .18V. I guess the shovel has a lot more surface area than the rebar. This is too low. but I am encouraged to keep going. The day was ending and I could barely read my multimeter.
I have been looking at this for a few years but never tried it.
I have a couple of comments from my previous research.
This is a kind of throw-away because I can't find the source, but I distinctly remember being told that Tesla chose 60 Hz for the AC because that was what he thought the tuning of the earth to atmosphere was. I am putting this out in case anyone else has heard this and can verify it for me.
Several years ago I copied an article onto my computer that has a picture of Stubbenfield's earth batteries. Then the researcher made a point to say that there was a rock layer between the electrodes. I think this may be important in the design. It is actually the reason I never tried this. I was renting.
The telephone company still uses this earth battery. Stubbenfield used it when he was inventing his telephones and this earth battery is evidently one element that makes the land lined telephones work. Have you ever seen the sign on a piece of metal around your house that says "do not remove or disturb" and it is signed the telephone company? That is the connection to the ground. They call it " the ground" and you think it is like the ground of an electrical company circuit. But it is not. When the power goes out (as it did here today) I can plug in my old rotary phone and "dial" a number. If the person I am dialing also has a rotary phone, it will ring and we can talk. This is because those old type phones work without any electric company electricity. It is from this ground wire. !!! So, let's carry on.
jeanna
jeanna:
Welcome to this topic. I hope that more people attempt to experiment in this area and we can compare the results. As far as Tesla goes...I have read several books on him and all of them say he was obsessed by 3's. He lived his life in ways that were either three, or multiples thereof. 60hz is a multiple of three but I don't know if that was an accident or not.
Considering the galvanic differences in your metals you should/could have produced .40 volts. Also, when you align to north/south, it is not magnetic north like you read on your compass. It should, from what I have read anyway, be aligned to the north pole of the earth which can be quite different from magnetic north depending on your position on the planet. Please continue with your experiments and keep us posted. Localjoe is going to input the results to a spreadsheet so maybe we can get a better handle on what works, and what works better.
As for history, have you read where the telegraph folks continued to pass messages long after their (Edison) batteries were dead? This was also attributed to the natural potentials of the earth battery. As far as your old rotary phone working is concerned, and anyone correct me if I am wrong on this, the phone company sends it's own low voltage through the line which can ring the bell, or buzzer, and may, or may not be effected by a local power outage. the reason modern phones don't work is because usually they are cordless and the base needs power for the transmit/receive functions. Please keep up your work.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on November 12, 2007, 11:21:30 PM
jeanna:
Welcome to this topic. I hope that more people attempt to experiment in this area and we can compare the results. As far as Tesla goes...I have read several books on him and all of them say he was obsessed by 3's. He lived his life in ways that were either three, or multiples thereof. 60hz is a multiple of three but I don't know if that was an accident or not.
Considering the galvanic differences in your metals you should/could have produced .40 volts. Also, when you align to north/south, it is not magnetic north like you read on your compass. It should, from what I have read anyway, be aligned to the north pole of the earth which can be quite different from magnetic north depending on your position on the planet.
Yeah it was pretty sloppy. I was pushing the dusk and I wanted something. I went into the shed that has an earth floor. I couldn't dig deep enough to get the metals in more than an inch. I will give it more time
As for history, have you read where the telegraph folks continued to pass messages long after their (Edison) batteries were dead? This was also attributed to the natural potentials of the earth battery.
Pretty cool.
As far as your old rotary phone working is concerned, and anyone correct me if I am wrong on this, the phone company sends it's own low voltage through the line which can ring the bell, or buzzer,
yup and it has to return by the ground not the wire or it won't work.
I may have inserted my remarks wrong. I am new to this forum stuff. (but I love it anyway)
jeanna
Jeanna:
Your remarks were fine. I'm glad your here.
Bill
Quote from: georgemay on November 12, 2007, 08:28:14 PM
Guys,
Got reply from Poland. Sorry for disinformation. The guy is not using electrodes but pipes to recover methane gas to power converted diesel engine with generator. Well, next time I will check facts first, before I open my mouth.
George
I just wanted to post about this, as this was the only case I could imagine he was using it alike.
There seems to be coming a lot of Methane from bio waste.
Some guys over here in Germany also did it by putting pipes somehow into the waste and collecting the
methane gas and then running an ICE to power a generator.
How much waste does it need to do this ?
How big is the land the neighbour of your cousin is using for this and how many
KiloWatts is he producing this way ?
Stefan,
Here what's my cousin wrote:
Landfill is 200x200 meters. He has 2 diesel engines from polish truck Jelcz and 1 generator. He starts engine on disel oil then switches to gas. sometimes he runs 1 engine and sometimes 2 at at the same time - that depends on amount of gas he can recover. There is generator, some sort of transformer and another device before hookup to national grid. The consistence of gas is unknown to me.
He did not specify how much energy the guy can produce but I just checked the HP of the engines. I am not sure which model he has but 1975 model has 185HP; and newer '2000 models are 320HP. from here you can figure more or less how many KW he is capable to produce.
[/quote]
There seems to be coming a lot of Methane from bio waste.
Some guys over here in Germany also did it by putting pipes somehow into the waste and collecting the
methane gas and then running an ICE to power a generator.
How much waste does it need to do this ?
How big is the land the neighbour of your cousin is using for this and how many
KiloWatts is he producing this way ?
[/quote]
I went to the Real Goods Solarfest in 2000. A one of the 20 minute teaching sessions a fellow described his system using 2 plastic garbage cans one overturned on top of the other.
Inside he put only grass clippings and small yard cuttings. probably some water too. he collected methane which went from the cans through another container loaded with steel wool to filter out the sulphur. He wrote a book with this in it. No I don't know the name of the book but I think it was a gardening book. sorry.
This is called biogas. It has been collected in an industrial way in India.
google "biogas" and see what you get. It looks good.
jeanna
I have a few results today.
First - and I recommend this to everyone doing this test- I put a fresh battery into my multimeter. These ever so convenient machines compare what they are finding between the probes to an assumed 9 volt constant. So that was the first step.
Yesterday because of the storm I did a little test in the earth ground inside a metal shed. So, with the fresh battery I rechecked my Cu > rebar as it was in the same place as yesterday. and the results were somewhat lower.
Inside shed
Cu > rebar 0.13v
Cu > Zn 0.6v (galvanized 10 penny nail)
Cu > graphite 0.24v (carpenter's pencil - what a great idea, bill)
graphite > Zn 0.9v
Then I went outside. I wondered if being in a metal shed which has a faraday cage effect (it does not allow the signal of cell phones to penetrate) would dampen any aetheric or electromagnetic effects from the schuman cavity, if that is what we are seeing. I wondered this because Stubbenfield used an antenna for some of his batteries.
outside the shed
graphite > Zn 1.06v (up 0.16v from inside)
Cu > graphite 0.14v (down 0.1 from inside) ???
The only other oddity to report is from disturbing the earth. I couldn't get the graphite deep enough in the ground and I wanted to try getting all these deeper than a few inches so, I dug with a shovel and stuck the pencil into the earth and returned the soil and patted it around the pencil. Now the pencil and the zinc nail were both about 6 inches (15cm) deep.
I guess I forgot to record it but it was almost nothing. something like 0.05v I won't speculate but this is interesting about disturbing the soil, I think.
One more thing, I checked the voltage between the Zn nail and the graphite pencil around in a circle. and closer than 1 meter apart. There was no change at all 1.06v every time near or far, north/south or east/west .
So, 12 graphite pencils and 12 galvanized nails will give me a 12 volt battery for free. I love it. I am taking a welding class and I will see if I can get some graphite from there.
more later. I think I will try to get 2 sets in series and light a LED. Maybe take a picture.
jeanna
Yes jenna the ground can be used for a return path i found that out trying to run a battery in series with the ground rods i have and the power came through. I do know that telephone lines have a pretty hefty voltage that goes thorough them normally. I never thought it was much until i got bit once.... hurts ;D In that sense of a return ground i think there has to be a certain ammt of pressure we could say for it to be worthwhile. I'm still betting the only way to harness useful energy will be with big coils and a ferromagnetic core for a transformer. I guess what is throwing me is all these patents have a version of a strong inductor or coil wired directly off the electrode but the ends are shorted since they only use one peice of wire. Now were all measuring dc but for those transformers or coils that are being used it must be a form of ac or that avenue would have been pointless so mabey with 4 electrodes 2 of each, one of each with a wire wrapped around iron or ferrite core so cu > iorncore> zn and cu> ironcore > zn, wind secondaries and take those leads to a full wave rectifier. Correct me if i'm wrong, but that should be a 6 diode bridge for full wave as opposed to 4 diode for half wave. I remember subblefields real patent name being along the lines of an em amplifier. Ah ha the patent description is starting to make more sense.
"Stubblefield Earth Battery OR Electro-magnetic Induction Amplifier"
@ localjoe:
I have already stated my lack of electronics knowledge in earlier posts. My question is this...if we use coils, won't that raise the volts (dc) and reduce the amps? (Ohm's law) Does a rectifier amplify both volts and amps? I am re-reading my electronics books as we speak but I am behind the curve here. Carbon rod supposed to arrive this Friday.!!!!
Bill
No worries bill ,
Take this for instance when you pass a magnet over a coil of wire it cuts the flux lines of the magnetic field and induces current in the coil, in this stage its still ac but when we take a 4 diodes and connect these two leads of the coil to opposite sides of the diode bridge the remaining 2 have rectified dc voltage now, that usable ect. Now I think the difference between a 4 diode bridge and a 6 diode bridge is rectifying half of the ac wave form vs full wave which should rectify the whole wave form. Hopefully i haven't butchered that description too much but im sure Stefan or others could help further elaborate if needed.
Localjoe:
Thanks, yes I understand about the half wave and full wave from the bridge but, what happens to the amps? Do they go up, down, or stay the same? My local supplier just called and I can pick up my carbon rod in the a.m.
Bill
@Bill Different ammounts of turns will affect wether the voltage is stepped up and current lowered or visa versa, in an ac circuit . For this to work though one needs to use ac or pulsed dc, so it kind explained some of my weird findings with different freq's and there still may be a magnetic component here with the rod exp. because the voltage produced from the potato battery for instance is straight dc and at minimum what we have measured so far is pulsed dc or something our meters cant really read. so even though we haven't achieved great results yet our findings still indicate that its not just a galvanization reaction going on. Secondly, the Stubblefield cell uses coils even differently so as to have two bi metals wound side by side on a carriage bolt, copper and steel for instance, the copper insulated and the battery has one of each end of wire in the ground and the other two leads produce juice. This one is more along the lines of an electromagnetic plug of sorts that uses the earth magnetic energy and transforms it into what he called secondary current to us that could mean ac or pulsed dc so i hope thats more descriptive. :)
Joe
Localjoe:
Thanks for the explanation. As I said, I have been rereading my text books. So, you think we might be seeing pulsed DC? That would be very interesting. Stefan said that, when I got both ac and DC on my meter that typically you can get both. But why? I was raised that DC was DC and ac was ac. Yes, you can use inverters and rectifiers to swap but...at the source, they should be one or the other....right? Pulsed DC is another matter. I know nothing about this but it might explain, like you said, Stubblefield's experiments and patents. We are getting closer.
Bill
(http://)
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Here are some quick pics of the carbon rod that I picked up today. It is 1 inch in diameter (not 3/4" like I thought) and 17 inches long. It also has striations along the outside edge which would give a little more contact surface area. It is time to get to work here now.
Bill
That should leave give a nice voltage tell me how it goes :) And the bedini page with the stubblefield info has some stuff thats useful in understand how the different battery's are doing their thing.
Joe
The following was copied and pasted from a report on Stubblefield in case some of you have not read it. sorry, the pictures did not transfer with it. I really like the part where, when they found he had passed away, his house was heated by to mirrored spheres. Also, his lights were all powered by the earth. (For free) Bill
"This may be the last hope when the power systems go down and there is no more fuel..... We will take the power from the ground and learn how to use the earth for the good of all. This work is based on the book "Lost Science" by Gerry Vassilatos. I have just pointed out the important parts in red, but I have hundreds of hours in the circuit designs. Peter Lindemann pointed out this work to me two years ago. Since then I have worked with the Stubblefield technology and many others.
Go to Peter's pages here http://www.free-energy.cc/
"After the third tribulation, a new source of energy will be discovered that taps the Earth Magnetic field."
-Hopi Prophecy
Stubblefield
This is my research on Nathan Stubblefield.
"Hello, Rainy." - In 1892, ignorant of the wireless inventions of the past 60 years, Nathan creates an electromagnetic induction wireless telephone and demonstrates it to his friend Rainey Wells. A few years later, Nathan develops a superior wireless telephone that uses natural conduction through the earth and water.
Bob Lochte has done an enormous amount of work uncovering papers, notes and pictures, and quotes on Nathan Stubblefield. There is one puzzling thing to me about the Stubblefield device. It seems to me that Tesla is standing in one of the pictures. I have checked the references and, yes, Tesla is in the picture. Now that I understand this, it brings me to the conclusion that the waves Stubblefield used were longitudinal in nature.
Meucci hearing through wires
Even without Stubblefield, Marconi still wouldn't be the true inventor of radio - Nikola Tesla invented it before Marconi. Marconi, in fact, used Tesla's own patents as research materials. Tesla, in turn, was among the curious onlookers in attendance at Stubblefield's 1902 wireless demonstration in Philadelphia.
Stubblefield also developed a battery to power this system and a motor, that we will get into later. Now around 1878 Amos Dolbear files a patent on what he called induction wireless telephone, demonstrated publicly in the us, Canada, and Europe in 1882 and 1883, patented in U.S.1886. What is amazing to me is that the patent uses an elevated capacitance. So this is not the same as a Hertizan wave transmitter. It is very clear that the capacitance acts as the antenna and the return is using the earth as ground. The induction coil is used as a high self-inductance only, creating a very high potential or stress in the aether.
"Now," Tesla writes later on about the transmitter that he was developing, "I attacked vigorously the development of my magnifying transmitter, now however, not so much with the original intention of producing one of great power, as with the object of learning how to construct the best one. This is essentially, a circuit of high self-induction and small resistance ( key words coming up) which in its arrangement, mode of excitation and section and action, may be said to be the diametrical opposite of a transmitting circuit typical of telegraphy by Hertzian or electromagnetic radiations."
What Stubblefield had discovered and what he do with his system.
Stubblefield was experimenting with ground radio since 1882, but did not patent his developments until much later. Credible witnesses saw his ground radio experiments in action during this time frame, establishing the historical priority of Stubblefield. While Marconi could barely send telegraphic "dots and dash" signals with great difficulty through a static-filled medium, Nathan Stubblefield had already transmitted the human voice with loud, velvet clarity. Others would adopt and implement the Collins system (Fessenden, DeForest, Bethenod, Braun), but none could duplicate the Stubblefield System.
Nikola Tesla performed double ground experiments with impulses as early as 1892, reporting these in lectures and patenting some embodiments in 1901. Not one of these later systems ever achieved the same results of clarity, tone, and volume of Stubblefield ground telephony. Tesla apparently never discovered the true powerpoints which powered Stubblefield's device. Priority in all these arts belongs to Nathan Stubblefield alone. In addition, his was the only system in which natural energies were obtained, magnified, and entirely employed as the empowering source. All other inventors used "artificial" sources (batteries, alternators, dynamos).
Following all these ground radio demonstrations, Stubblefield researched "Magnetic Waves" and developed several systems which did not use ground terminals for exchanging signals. Long distance wireless telephone communications were his aim. Many imagined this to be radio as we know it, but several features of Stubblefield aerial are distinctive and different.
First his transmitters and receivers were telephonic, not telegraphic. In his preliminary experiments, the earth battery was used to energize an apparatus to which was connected a long horizontal aerial line. Marconi later adopted this "bent L" symmetry in conjunction with a grounded copper conduction screen. There are no photographs of these arrays, but I have hand-written manuscript copies of certain diary notes in which a progressively greater telephonic distance is reported. Nathan Stubblefield made steady progress in this form of telephonic transmission , but used neither alternators nor spark discharge.
Mr. Stubblefield reasoned that, since electrical waves traverse the whole earth, it might be possible to send signals to distant places. These ground-permeating natural electrical waves might serve as carriers for the human voice. The ground would act as both power generator and signal conductor. Like a gale carrying messages downwind, these electrical waves could bring wireless communications instantly to any part of the world.
These transmissions were made through the ground itself and used the Stubblefield cell for power. In several photographs we see special loud speaking telephones outfitted with (1 foot) horns, designed to act as annunciators. Calls from these annunciators brought his son Bernard to the telephone transmitter. The system was never switched off. Power was limitless and did not diminish with time of the day or length of use.
Natural observations in systems led to unexpected, theory-busting discoveries. Such an effect demonstrates that an articulate quasi-intelligent energy permeates the natural environment.... an energy of which electricity is a minor part.
Two more mysteries have lingered from this latter period of invention in the Stubblefield biography. The nature of each reveals the extent to which he had developed and advanced his new earth power technology. Nathan continued to pursue his experiments, but little was seen of him for long time periods. Alone and tired, Nathan stopped working his farm completely.
Later, Investigators entered his land area and found heavy wires leading from the roots of trees. To these wires were attached small arc lamps, hung in the trees. These were extinguished. They imagined the arc lamps to be the explanation of his hillside sunlight. Their hasty analysis proved problematic from stories which witnesses report. The warm and diffused sunlight which came from the ground itself around his house was not localized in specific lamps. The light came from the ground, not from the trees as before... a "whole hillside that would blossom with light"... "lit up like daytime". These observations indicate that Stubblefield had managed indeed the direct conversion of earth energy to light and warmth. This would acceptable, were Mr. Stubblefield simply working on a newer form of drawing electricity from the ground to light small arc-lamps; a feat which he had accomplished earlier. But these kind persons could never find any evidence of arc-lighting or any other form of known lighting anywhere near the area. In their own words "the light seemed to come out from the ground itself".
In addition to ground sunlight effects, many heard very loud and unfamiliar noises coming from the whole area surrounding his cabin. What could this be? Had he managed to directly transduce the natural impulses of the ground energy into audio?
His last claim two weeks before his death was made to a kind neighbor: "The past is nothing. I have perfected now the greatest invention the world has ever known..... I have taken light from the air and earth.... as I did sound."
Neighbors had not seen Nathan for several days. As they were worried about his health, they attempted to call on him. The lock was secured from the inside. It was a lonely, cold and rainy March day when old friends and neighbors broke the lock on Nathan's cabin and entered. He had passed away in his bed, the probable victim of malnutrition and fatigue. They all noticed that the interior of the cabin was "toasty warm", as if heated by a strong fire. Moved to locate the source of this heat, town officials found " two highly polished metal mirrors which faced each other, radiating a very great heat in rippling waves" This is a great discovery. It fulfills what Nathan reported in his last testimony.
This picture was sent in by Gandolf Gwynn.
He wanted to know who was hiding behind the tree?
The man behind the tree is Dr. Will Mason.
The rods in the picture are about 20 feet apart in a straight line. Nathan Stubblefield receiving a message.
Nathan Stubblefield used earth magnetic currents. this is not current as we know it. Electricity is a wasted product of this magnetic current.
The Electrical Ocean.
If you are building an earth battery it is best to do it as the patent calls out. This means that you should not use anything that causes a forced voltage. It was not until later that people used sulfur cakes and other acids to get the voltage higher with bigger currents. That is a phony system and not Free Energy.
Alexander Bain
We found a good number of earth battery designs in the Patent Registry. The earliest designs appear in 1841 when Alexander Bain applied the phenomenon to telegraphy. While working a telegraph line, he chanced to discover that his leads had become immersed in water. This short-circuit through earthed water did not stop the actions which resounded through his system. Mr. Bain took the next step to greater distance, burying copper plates and zinc plates with a mile of ground between them. When connected to a telegraph line, these performed remarkably well without any other battery assistance. Bain obtained the patent for his earth battery years after his initial discovery (1841), using it to drive telegraph systems and clocks. (real free energy system using earth energy only)
Stephen Vail (1837) observed the same effect, not knowing what caused it. The establishment of the first functional telegraph line seemed to require even fewer batteries with time. Vail began with some twelve large battery cups, reducing them gradually until only two were needed. There came a point during certain operative seasons where he found it possible to remove all the batteries!
J.W. Wilkins in England (1845) corroborated findings made by Bain, developing a similar earth battery for use in telegraphic service. An early English Patent appears in 1864 by John Haworth, the first true composite earth battery. This battery is drum-shaped , having numerous solid discs mounted on an insulative axis, end-braced, and buried. Their power was rated in terms of disc diameter and telegraph line distance: one foot diameter discs for seventy-five miles of line, two foot discs for up to four hundred and forty miles of line.
Composite earth battery
Experimental modulated earth battery
The experiment is to modulate the earth current. It works just like a modulated current source in a solid state amplifier, only this battery supplies the current. An example would be a strain gauge circuit.
This mystery persisted for years. I have talked to some older engineers who report that local telegraph stations remained in operation despite the fact that their batteries had not been recharged for a great number of years. When the battery was examined it was actually dried out and physically corroded. Yet the signals continued.
In devices called "radionic" tuners by those who developed them, numerous investigations revealed the potentials of ground energy for social use. Agricultural applications of radionic tuners produced greater crop yields. Moreover, large ground-connected radionic tuners produced extraordinary effects on the mind and emotions.... relieving tensions and opening thought to new potentials. From this viewpoint, telegraph systems behaved as radionic tuners on a vast scale. We would therefore expect them to produce anomalous energetic effects in several parameters of human experience.
Cosmo-Electro Culture, The Cosmic Forces
Test amplifier to transmit low power signals into the ground
Receiver amplifier with 60Hz notch filter.
In my test of an "earth battery system using grounding rods", when transmitting audio frequencies the weeds grew wildly. The normal weeds were so big that it took a tractor to cut them down.... It was found that tubes work the best.
Ground Radio
Let's try an experiment in earth energies.
Touching a well-grounded iron rod is a good first experiment to try in these regards. Try and find a place where power leakage into the ground is minimal..... such as in a park or wooded area. Take a yard-long solid iron rod whose surface is free of shellac or insulator coatings. Carefully drive the rod into the ground with a hammer. Wetted hands on the iron should produce a mild electrical sensation. These voltages may be measured. They "pin" sensitive galvanometers. The current does not cease after several weeks of activity, when the rods are properly placed.
Most recognized that electricity was simply a by-product or epiphenomenon of a more fundamental agency which entered the grounded lines. Rheostats somehow "tuned" the potential of this earth energy. It was found possible to "match and tune" these energies through the use of rheostats and capacitors. (medical connection) Persons who were weak and infirm actually experienced vitalizing elevations when connected to the ground energy through these special rheostatic tuners."
Stubblefield continued.....
Bill
"We do not know the secret of the earth charge as Nathan Stubblefield determined it. Others since his time have observed fluctuations at certain times of the year in ground energy. It may be that a sudden induction is required before the excess ground charge surges to the surface..... like priming a pump.
So I did some experiments in building different types of cells. I used a 10 inch carriage bolt 3/4 inch diameter between two delron spacers. I used steel wire and copper wire that was coated. I would wind one layer and sand it off, check for shorts, and then wrap it with gauze and start the next winding. I then put the secondary induction coil windings on.
These are the results I got in a one gallon plastic jug filled with water. Volts .07, 250ma into dead short through meter shunt. I'm still working on a better cell to go into the ground at this time.
Stubblefield published an extraordinary brochure in 1898 to attract investors who had expressed interest in consolidating a small corporation around his work. In this brochure, Stubblefield insisted that power for his device was not generated in the cell. He calmly stated that the cell received its surplus energy from the earth. In a less discussed portion of the brochure, Stubblefield stated that "electrotherapeutic" devices had been developed from his earth battery. Other researchers made similar claims for their earth batteries (Hicks, Mellon). During this time, Stubblefield declared that news, weather, and other announcements could be broadcast through the ground across a great territory for private reception. He also added that simultaneous messages and news of all kinds would soon be transmitted through the ground from a central distribution station. (Shades of Tesla!)
In 1902 Stubblefield set up one of his sets in a "Mainstreet" upper office... in a hardware shop. From that point to his farm (some 6000 feet distant) he conducted continuous conversations with his son Bernard. Tapping with a pencil on his one-piece transceiver, Bernard was quickly heard in a loud, very clear voice. This transceiver was a carbon button placed in a tin snuff box. Speech and response were transacted through the same device, which acted as both microphone and loudspeaker. Cells (EARTH BATTERIES) were placed downstairs from the office in the ground. They were never removed and never wore out, though operating twenty-four hours a day around the clock.
Nathan Stubblefield offered to construct a large scale power station for the town of Murray. His quoted initial installation costs were estimated at five thousand dollars. The town politicians declined the offer. As a result, the technique of drawing up electricity from the earth remains a mystery.
The Stubblefield ground radio system was demonstrated for approximately one thousand Murray residents. Photographs of Stubblefield and his family, and a good crowd of witnesses from town, show the cell laying on the ground among all his assembled inventions; and a flower-pot sized coil of good volume. Other devices show motors and large capacitor stacks for aerial voice transmission experiments.
Stubblefield declares it to be an "energy receiver....a receptive cell for intercepting electrical ground waves". Its conductive ability somehow absorbs and directs the enormous volumes of earth energy.
Whether the current derived from this cell is electricity as we know it has been questioned. One indicator is not found when considering his use of the energy in lighting lamps. With this energy Nathan Stubblefield operated a score of arc lamps at full brightness for twenty-four hours a day. There was a definite trigger by which this energy was stimulated and maintained.
The induction coil which bears his name is equipped with three coils which are wrapped around and upon a heavy iron core. Bare iron wire and cotton-covered copper wire are wrapped side by side, comprising a primary coil body. Each layer of the primary coil body is covered by a band of cotton insulation, bringing four wire leads to the coil terminus. Two leads of iron and two of copper are external to the coil. Commercial electrical power is obtained through these connective terminals.
In addition to this bimetallic winding, there is a third winding: the "secondary". This third coil is insulated from the primary bimetallic coil, serving as a trigger device. Presumably, a stimulating impulse shock was introduced into the tertiary coil, after which the upwelling electrical ground response brought forth powerful currents in both iron and copper coils.
Electrolytically (as a battery in acid or saltwater) the Stubblefield coil is disappointing, producing less then one volt according to those who have duplicated its construction. Stubblefield's bimetallic coil was a "plug": a receiver which intercepts the vast and free electrical reservoir of the ground itself. His patent and subsequent company brochures define the manner in which his earth battery was to be activated.
Technically, the Stubblefield device is a modified thermocouple (a bimetal in tight surface contact) but a thermocouple could not supply the degree of power which he reported. While this arrangement could develop a few milliwatts of power in appropriately hot ground spots, the thermoelectric explanation of the device cannot explain the phenomenal output reported in the news reports of Stubblefield's demonstrations.
Furthermore, though the Stubblefield power receiver is wound like an induction coil, it produces a steady direct current output. This poses additional problems for the conventional engineer. Electrical induction only occurs with electrical alternations, oscillations, and impulses.
Nathan and Bernard Stubblefield, with wireless telephone
January 1, 1902
Witnesses describe ground-powered motors which ran unceasingly and unattended for months without need for replacing or replenishing the ground battery. Small machinery, clocks, and loud gongs were run by other ground-buried cells as reported by credible witnesses. Stubblefield may have discovered the auto-magnifying voltage effect of electrostatic induction in coils before Tesla, who later utilized the effect in his special electrostatic Transformers.
Is this the first induction pulse motor?
These buried coils may have become saturated with earth electrostatic energy, which travelled from subterranean depths. In such a case, the mere battery power of the coil was replaced by the electrostatic flow, the coil acting as an electrode. This seems obvious when considering the fact that its ordinary battery current (1 watt) was gradually replaced by continually growing electrical current of far greater proportion.
Observations made at Pittsburgh, Pa., communicated by E.W. CULGAN,
Telegraph manager.
During Aug. 28th the intensity of the current evolved from it varied very much, being at times no stronger than an ordinary battery, and then suddenly changing the poles of the magnets it would sweep through them, charging them to their utmost capacity, and compelling a cessation of work while it continued.
On the morning of Sept. 2d, at my request the Philadelphia operator detached his battery, mine being already off. We then worked with each other at intervals as long as the auroral current continued, which varied from thirty to ninety seconds. During these working intervals we exchanged messages with much satisfaction, and we worked more steadily when the batteries were off than when they were attached.
On the night of Aug. 28th the batteries were attached, and on breaking the circuit there were seen not only sparks (that do not appear in the normal condition of a working line) but at intervals regular streams of fire, which, had they been permitted to last more than an instant, would certainly have fused the platinum points of the key, and the helices became so hot that the hand could not be kept on them. These effects could not have produced by the batteries.?
In 1876, the American Alexander Graham Bell succeeded in developing a practical telephone. The first telephones functioned so that a telephone receiver was installed at both ends of a wire. The earth functioned as the return wire. Batteries were not necessary because the telephone receiver's permanent magnet produced an electrical current in the coil when a magnetically conductive membrane was activated by speech. Finland's first telephone connection was built during December of 1877 in Helsinki."
Some measurments from today's activities with the carbon rod
+ side to the north 1"dia x 17" long carbon rod stuck in the ground 11" deep.
- side aligned on the n/s meridian 3" long magnesium block stuck 2" deep into the ground 4 feet to the south.
1.6 vdc 2.62 vac 1.1 milliamps
+ side to the north same as above
- side to the south 1/4 inch steel rod x 18 inches long inserted into the ground 15 inches deep. 3 feet apart.
1.1 vdc 1.5vac 2.6 milliamps
The first set-up was able to light an led rated at 1.7 volts and 20 mA. It was not very bright so I hooked up a small capacitor which charged from the earth and that lights the led up very nicely. I did not leave it hooked up very long as it was all temporary the way I did just for testing. More work and results to follow.
Bill
Bill,
Great work on the experiments. I'm looking forward to your results. Do you notice any difference when you bury the rods horizontally?
As for the stubblefield coil, is anyone able/interested to try and build one? It would be interesting to speculate on the nature of the triggering mechanism. Possible some magnetic flux generated in the iron coil?
G'day all,
Thanks to localjoe I had another look at Stubblefield's patent. I remembered having put it aside years ago because of the many contradictions it contains.
This time I read it with a different kind of mindset, if you wish, and since learning its history, which was unknown to me then, I am coming to the conclusion there is far more to this device than is obvious.
It is interesting to note that Stubblefield was a contemporary of Keely and undoubtedly aware of Keely's work.
I am preparing a short paper on the device which I will post here when it is done.
In the meantime I am posting the original patent so everyone can have a look at it.
Hans von Lieven
Hans:
We appreciate your input. I didn't know about Stubblefield possibly knowing about Keely's work, this is very interesting. I am not that far (1.5 hours) from where Stubblefield was living (Murry, KY) so maybe I should investigate and speak with some older people there that might know something about him and his work. Probably second hand information but, better than nothing.
I look forward to your paper.
Bill
http://youtube.com/watch?v=BmNoLfjIEac
----------------------------------------description:
This is a demonstration of Nathan Stubblefield's invention, the Earth Cell Battery, patented in 1898 (patent no 600,457). It is a coil that when immersed in the earth's surface taps telluric currents of the earth that can be read with a voltimeter. This is a demonstration only, so please take note of the deepness of the hole that was dug, which was about 11 or 12 inches deep, as large tree roots were below. Also notice the Secondary winding on the battery is not complete, as I was running out of time and needed to get it in the ground before it got dark. This was a camping trip in Grand Rivers, Kentucky. I felt this location to be a great start for my experiment, as the battery's origin was approximately 30 miles south, in Murray, Kentucky. Please excuse the shakiness of the camera, this experiment was performed on a fairly steep hill, it was hard to keep my balance!
This battery is comprised of concentric windings of uninsulated steel wire and insulated copper speaker wire (the speaker wire was a theory of mine that I thought would be suitable for this application, as it has multiple strands of copper wire). I used sterile gauze as insulation in between each layer of windings (including initially in between the 10" bolt and the first winding). The point is to not let the steel wire touch any part of itself as it is being wound. The spacers used are 2" x ?" vinyl with holes drilled through for the four terminals.
As you can see, the initial voltage reading, dry, above ground, is .08v.
Next voltage reading, dry, underground, is .41v.
I poured a bucket of water over the area and waited a few minutes (water acts as an electrolyte). I tested the battery not on film, it was .91v. A moment later I tested it once more while filming, it was .88v.
2 hours later, I did a final testing, it was .92v. I then removed the battery from the ground and put it in a bucket of water, the voltage reading was much lower than when it was in the ground, about .82v. The ammeter function in my multimeter is busted as I found out during the tests, so I could not take a reading on the current, which sucks. One thing I forgot to film is that when the terminals were switched, the DC voltage reading was also switched to negative of the same values. For positive readings, the copper is plus and the steel is minus. This is a fairly simple and cheap project, so do some research and have fun!
The last clip of this film was taken in Murray, Kentucky, as I am currently looking for a new home and good graduate program. The statue is of Rainey Wells, a man that attended many of Stubblefield's demonstrations of his wireless telephone. I say "hello, Rainey" because these were the first words heard by Wells from Stubblefield during a demonstration in 1892. Rainey Wells was 17 years old at this time. The building in the background is the Forrest Pogue Library, an archive of information on Stubblefield and his work. The inscription on the building reads, "The Whole World Here Unlocks the Experience of the Past." The Nathan Stubblefield memorial is west of this location of the Murray State University campus.
This is fantastic Bill,
From what I can gather there is a small local museum where some of Stubblefield's equipment is kept, some of which is not understood by anyone.
This is turning into a fascinating research project, there is some really unexpected stuff turning up.
Hans von Lieven
Feild Trip ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mq9ZKDKDclY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mq9ZKDKDclY)
Above is a link to a video I just posted to youtube on today's experiments. I noticed I made a mistake when speaking of the amps, I said millivolts when I meant to say milliamps. (mA) My led is still buring at this time. This is so cool to be able to extract some energy from the earth like this. Our experimentation continues.
Bill
Led is still illuminated.
@akashh:
Thanks. No, I have not tried any horizontal testing as of yet. I have to admit, it would be easier to dig a trench than try to force a fragile rod into the earth. I think anything is possible here and deserves testing. I think now there will be a growing interest in the Stubblefield type coils experiments. Maybe I can take an antenna coil and core from an old a.m. radio and play with that. This is fun.
Bill
Pirate Bill,
This is way to cool!!
Tomorrow I am going to do some experimenting. (all I have is just a copper and aluminum tubes). I hope you are not going to discharge the earth completely by tomorrow morning! :)
George
After having read Stubblefield's earth battery patent carefully it seems to me to be nothing other than a water battery that uses damp soil as an electrolyte. However, what seems interesting is the use of the secondary coil. He says that sufficient energy may be produced by means of this coil. I am guessing that magnetically it works similar to any transformer. So if we would have 100 turns of primary (iron-copper couple) and say 1000 turns on the secondary, voltage would be 10 X.
Bedini says he thinks the secondary is a trigger coil, but that's not in the patent. I would imagine on the contrary that the primary coil could be triggered via some sort of pulse to create a large magnetic field. Who knows how this would resonate once inside the earth, but if one were constantly extracting energy the earth may interact with the coil beyond pure galvanics after the application of the initial pulse.
Does this sound absurd? I am unable to build this at the moment but in a few weeks I'll be able to do so...
@ akashh:
I think we have shown results thus far that put this beyond pure galvanic reaction. How far beyond is up to debate. If it were just galvanic than the closer the electrodes, the better the power which has not been the case for me. Plus, when it rains, my voltage drops and I get much better as the ground dries out. If you read in the earlier posts about the old telegraph stations, their "electrodes" were hundreds of miles apart, how would pure galvanic reaction apply to this?
If you look at my video I posted earlier, you can see my electrodes are about 4 feet apart. I have not tried 5 feet yet but 4 feet was better than 3 feet, etc. Another point to consider, if just galvanic then why would an alignment of n/s on the meridian make any difference at all? (Which it clearly did for me)
Don't think for a moment that I claim to know all of what this is about, I don't. But, I am gathering information along the way that will help me to decide what it isn't. Do I think that galvanic reaction plays a part in all of this? Yes, I do, which is why I purchased the carbon rod. I did get some smaller voltages off of two copper pipes once they were aligned on the n/s meridian but not as much as I am getting now. I am not totally sure of this but if you made a regular battery with two copper electrodes I don't think it would have any voltage. there is so much more here than we know right now.
I like your suggestion of the coil to step up the voltage but, and here is my ignorance showing, will that not cut the amps proportionately as in Ohm's law? If not, this would be the way to go...also a series hookup of multiple electrodes to add the voltages and the amps is something I intend to explore. Keep us posted of your efforts once you begin. there are possibly a lot of variables here and we need a lot of people experimenting to make some sense of this.
@ George:
Good luck with your efforts, keep us posted. I'll try to leave a few volts in the earth for you. (grin)
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on November 18, 2007, 12:52:28 AM
I think we have shown results thus far that put this beyond pure galvanic reaction. How far beyond is up to debate. If it were just galvanic than the closer the electrodes, the better the power which has not been the case for me. Plus, when it rains, my voltage drops and I get much better as the ground dries out.
G'day Bill,
You are absolutely right, galvanic action has little, if anything, to do with it. There are forces here at work that are at present poorly understood. Stubblefield and some others knew this. For some reason they were not allowed to mention these phenomena in their patents. There are at least two patents that allude to it, I will cover this in my paper.
I am in two minds as to how I should proceed from here. This looks like a fairly lengthy inquiry and I don't know if I should post my findings in dribs and drabs as it were or if I should wait until the paper is finished before I post.
Posting in bits and pieces has the advantage of outside input, bits and pieces as they occur is very frustrating for the reader.
I leave it to you guys, whatever you want me to do, you've got it.
Hans von Lieven
it don't matter, post whatever you have now and whatever you post later we can always compare ;)
Nathan B. Stubblefield 1860 - 1928
It was many years ago when I first came across Nathan Stubblefield?s patent for an ?Earth Battery?. This was in the days before the internet, when looking up patents was a time and money consuming business and all you got was the patent. I cannot remember exactly why I purchased it, the most likely reason being that it was cited in another patent I was researching at the time. I didn?t know who Stubblefield was and what he had done other than acquire a patent.
So I took the patent at face value. It didn?t make sense.
It describes a device which uses a copper coil wound together with an iron coil side by side which is immersed in water. So far so good. The water as an electrolyte would cause the iron and copper to react with each other creating a galvanic element capable of generating electricity. Next he tells us that the copper wire must be insulated! From the iron wire! He also states that insulating the iron wire has no detrimental effect on the operation of the device.
There is no way a galvanic action can take place between insulated wires, no matter what the electrolyte.
And if that is not enough he tells us that one can put a secondary coil over the contraption and extract power from it.
This is impossible. A galvanic cell produces direct current ( DC ). You can wind as many coils as you want around a battery and no current will flow in that coil. It needs to be either an alternating current ( AC ) or a pulsed DC do induce a current in this coil.
Even at that stage I had a drawer full of patents of unworkable and impossible devices which had been sanctioned by patent examiners and I decided it was one of those and disregarded it.
A few days ago Localjoe brought Stubblefield up in a discussion on earth batteries and I vaguely remembered the patent and my reaction to it.
Years ago, when I discovered that I could retrieve any patent I needed at the touch of a button through the internet I had discarded two filing cabinets full of patents, so I could not look the patent up in my own records. This was fortuitous.
In order to retrieve the patent to refresh my memory I had to do a search on Stubblefield. This for the first time gave me some knowledge about the man.
To my surprise he was not the kind of backyard idiot patenting an impossible device he thought would work based on ignorance of the underlying scientific principles as I had assumed, but a man of considerable achievement and learning.
He was also a close friend of Tesla and a contemporary of Keely.
The clincher came when I read this:
Nathan Stubblefield took out a patent for the earth-battery, except, the patent-office demanded he call it "Earth Battery", Stubblefield wanted to call it "Electro-magnetic Induction Amplifier". (Source Wikipedia)
This explained a number of things.
I believe what happened is that the USPTO rejected his original application and forced a number of changes. By having to call it a battery he now had to make it look like one in order to get his patent.
This is why there are two contradictory descriptions of the device in the same patent.
He complied with the requests but left the real idea behind the device in place, hence the confusion.
That the device worked, of that there is no doubt.
He ran massive installations of electrical equipment on these batteries as the only power source for years, he operated a whole local telephone system on it. There are photographs of his various devices, I even found a photograph that shows his ?earth batteries?.
So what was he doing and how did the device work?
Stay tuned for the next exciting episode.
Hans von Lieven
Sorry guys, but you wanted it this way ;D
Hi all,
This is a subject close to my heart. I am not in a position now to do any experiments, but I am enclosing a link to a related subject, underground antennas. This is by Gerry Vassilatos who wrote about Stubblefield in his book "Lost Science".
It seems telluric currents are biodynamic. That is, they respond to our mental attention. Here is the link:
http://www.borderlands.com/newstuff/research/ground-ant.htm
It is rather long, but a good read into the nature of underground currents and how they respond to our wishes. Here is a short quote:
"OBSERVATION 3
There are other effects one notices, especially when tuning faint stations with ground antennas. It seems that tuned stations actually become stronger in the act of being heard, a bizarre effect requiring fine order readjustments. Indeed, continued reception of faint stations evidence definite auto-magnification effects. Obtained only through the use of analogue (variable capacity) tuning systems, the tuning process seemingly magnifies the strength of any faintly received signal. One may thus begin with a signal "granule", and end with a booming volume. Such entuned signal growth only occurs with continued attentive reception, a remarkable phenomenon in which receivers literally draw and automagnify signals on demand of the listening site. This strange connective "supply-response" function does not occur without human agency however. In absence of the human "recipient", no such amplification occurs, a curiosity which will find numerous skeptics and critics. But try the experiment for yourself.
Tune a weak station and leave the room. The signal fades away. Walk in again and quickly tune the signal. Walk away once more. The signal fades. Once more, tune the signal and walk back from the receiver. With very minor waverings, the signal strength will remain unchanged...until you walk directly before the receiver. Stay this time. Tune the signal and wait. You will literally hear the signal gradually rising in volume. The faint signal will gradually, almost perceptibly, grow in strength for you as you remain in the room. Now tune the signal carefully, rocking the dial to the left or right of center. Each readjustment raises the signal strength, until the volume is strong. Periodic minor adjustments will reveal a remarkable volume magnification, one which can reach enormous and fixed volume levels. This observation takes time and patience. With such patience, one can thus literally obtain a "signal bonfire" from a "signal spark". We have observed a signal increase while attentions are being focussed on the signal, with a subsequent complete fade back to faintness after the recipients have been removed.
Why can you tune such a weak station, periodically making "fine adjustments", and obtain a signal magnification? Tuning a weak signal through a ground antenna, and then observing the manner in which that signal actually "grows" in strength for a human recipient, is a demonstration of radionic significance. The same has been observed when radionic currents are selected through tuning instruments, and allowed to stimulate a biomonitored plant. The results are always the same, plant responses indicating the gradual increase of radionic current strength. Unlike aerial currents, ground signals are more intensely radionic in nature. They actively seek to infuse appropriate bio-organismic "capacities". Ground currents enter the receiver and are there entuned. The receiving circuit projects an infusive and thready auric radiance which floods the listening space until its natural saturation has been reached.
Those who are in the listening space add an additional absorptivity, a capacity to allow a continued projection of auric emanations. This continued projectivity into proximal recipients produces several characteristic attributes. Recipients who possess an innate desire, an emotional response for the signals, produce sudden surges in the reception strength. When attention is strongly focussed on some faint signal, then it will grow. The ground emerging signals will therefore intensify for you and those with you in a room, pouring into the listening space and being thus articulated among human "capacities". As radio signals are loaded with the articulation of human attention, the signal will grow more rapidly. It has recently been observed that the very same signal, when later left unattended, will fade back into the crashing background. Desirous attempts made to relocate and raise the same signal are not unsuccessful. The absence of appropriate numbers in the human recipients will modify the rapidity of signal growth. The humanly guided tuning process which engages such signals actually entunes the recipients in a radionic manner.
The refinement and entunement of such signals are very obviously a radionic phenomenon of the deepest significance. Entuned magnification effects are therefore radionic entunement effects, the magnification of human articulations by human recipients. Neither electrical nor radio currents possess the articulate nature capable of exhibiting such a detailed biodynamic function. We have previously demonstrated this phenomenon with biomonitored plants, an effect which experimenters may easily reproduce. The implications of this strange effect are enormous for the theoretician. They compel the examination of every notion of radiosignal causality. The only researcher who has treated this effect is Eric Dollard, whose excellent work describes "energy reciprocation" between Tesla impulse transmitters and receivers.
The fact that signals may be drawn from ground on human demand, and automagnified by human presence, should provoke heated debate. How can one explain the veritable control of a distant transmitter by a small receiver? In a biodynamic sense, we are not required to address distant transmitters, since ground currents automagnify with regularity. The additional energy which feeds radionically entuned and capacity-demanded ground signals is sourced within the great subterranean depths."
*********
I think Stubblefield had a strong mental connection with these forces. I suggest experimenters be patient and leave their projects buried over a longer period of time and mentally suggest the voltages grow to a more usable level. Nothing to lose by using some extra will power.
It might be worth trying a variable capacitor out of an old radio in some sort of tank circuit to fine tune the AC component of the output? That would be similar to the experiments within the referenced article.
Hope this helps,
Tishatang
@hans: Thanks for the insights into the Stubble field patent. Please do keep you posts coming since this seems to be a 'hot' topic. Let's keep up the energy.
In the stubblefield coil, you are right that the insulated copper doesn't make sense. And more so when he states that the battery is electrolytically activated with water - what effect would that have other than shorting out the iron coil? It would seem that the iron coil closely follows the copper one to take maximum flux from it - would that then interact with the central bolt?
Double post see below
@Tisha Tang Um would that have anything to do with our bodies being good radiation absorbers since theres a lot of water in us? And i have read up on the geomancy topic, i just feel it would distract this frourm, from its inital goal untlil the later stages of testing with a working device when were hunting in different areas for current density. But for now most of us are using rods and maybe just endeavoring with the transformer avenue.(Some earth battery patents show plates directly connected to small transformers and or electromagnetic induction coils.
@ Hans V, thanks for the input, I really respect your input and your generation talking the time to help our up and coming one. Most anything I have found on the stubblefield cell shows people stopping at the bimetal winding, now either they didn't look at the patent close enough and wind the secondary around it like it says or some of the info is dissinfo out there because it would not seem to be anything more than a weird thermocouple unless the power came off that secondary coil. The steel and copper wraps under i think keep some kinda pulse train going from the steel getting mildly magnetized and the copper inducting that flux and then i dunno from there, but there has to be some effect so as the copper transfers its flux back to the steel wire and keeps cycling. So by having two bimetals such as these, the copper and steel interacting, it must be creating a rotating magnetic field there fore the secondary could provide polarized ac or pulsed dc , or as the patents says word for word " Secondary Current" . This is the logic structure im working from when i build the stubblefiled plug. I've been real busy doing computer work around town so i haven't posted any results lately but i have a spreadsheet here with plenty of fields that im going to put the data in so whatever you want to post is fine im just going through all the pages in the forum organizing the data so we can compare. Earlier in the thread Hans, I posted a basic measurement request from the experiments and whatever folks have the equipment to provide readings for is appreciated. ;D
G'day localjoe and all,
I know the idea has been bandied around that the Stubblefield coil is a sort of thermocouple. This cannot be with these specifications. In a thermocouple the dissimilar metals have to be in metallic contact with each other, something the patent states explicitly to avoid!
Hans von Lieven
Hello all:
Here are some quick pictures. The "close-ups" I attemped in the video did not work out so well. I shot it using the video mode on my digital still camera, not the best set-up. the first should be a picture of the magnesium fire starter block in the ground on the south end. The next is the carbon rod at the north. The third is the led/capacitor setup. These should be more clear than the video.
@Hans:
Yes, by all means, publish your info as you write it/obtain it. This will give us all more to think about and experiment with while you are continuing to research. I very much look forward to reading your input.
Right now, I am trying to learn more about coils and their operation and functions. A point I see cropping up again and again is the "priming the pump" technique of inputting some energy into the earth which attract/produces/releases a lot more energy.
@Stefan:
I put in a plug for this website on my youtube video. I didn't think you would mind.
Bill
Hans your right about the thermocouple i wasen't thinking clearly but i did read that one end of each steel and copper should be exposed in the ground ... I couldnt find what it said to do with the other two ends on top ... now if we connected those ends on top to the plates or rods were using .. take bill's example with the magnesium and the carbon. The initial voltage induced by the rods goes through the coil then the two ends on the bottom in the earth might complete the circuit making an electromagnet. This could be way off but getting the results were getting now with just simple things and realizing that it is polarized ac or pulsed dc then feeding that into this bimetal coil should make a rotating magnetic feild if the ends in the earth are shorted. Now after realizing i can run a battery in series with the ground rods we've been using and still get the power out on the other side it would be safe to say that two metals such as iron and copper can form a link or path in the ground. I feel that once we understand how the rotating magnetic feild is created in the primary bimetal coil it will be a little more obvious how this plug works and should be easier to understand.
Stubblefield continued:
Before we analyse Stubblefield?s device we must digress here for a moment, for any analysis would not be complete unless we looked at the precursor of the idea.
In 1875 James Chapman Bryan patented an Earth battery which is similar in concept to Stubblefield?s. It is certain that Stubblefield was aware of the patent since he had to list it as ?prior art? in his patent application.
Modern patents list all prior art that had been quoted, on the old patents this is not the case. Nevertheless the requirement to disclose prior art was a requirement then as it is now.
What is here of immense interest to me is that Bryan was a resident of Philadelphia when he applied for his patent. It is certain that Bryan was aware of Keely?s work. I doubt that there would have been any person that did nor know about Keely in Philadelphia in 1875, during these years Keely was big news and his activities were regularly reported.
There are any number of patents on earth batteries, all relying on a galvanic action. Only two of these patents are different in character. Bryan?s and Stubblefield?s.
So what are these differences?
In the other patents two dissimilar metals were buried in the ground which were connected to insulated wires. The moisture in the ground acts as an electrolyte and a direct current develops between the different metals. I will not explain here how galvanic action works, I assume that the readers here in the forum are familiar with it.
The important part is that the resultant current is DC !
DC when connected to a coil generates a magnetic field. THIS FIELD IS STATIC !
As long as the current flows the field exists, when the current is withdrawn the field collapses. We call this an electromagnet.
All other patents accept this as given, Bryan?s and Stubblefield?s DO NOT !
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.keelytech.com%2Foverunity%2Fearthbatteries.gif&hash=e4fd9d222ef23822192638decd0ea3894f7ae4e1)
The obvious difference between these devices and the standard approach is that here we have SECONDARY COILS !
Both Bryan and Stubblefield are clearly expecting an oscillating field of some sort that energises these secondary coils. So where are these oscillations coming from? Not from any galvanic action, that is certain.
To analyse this we must have a look next at Keely and Leedskalnin.
This will be discussed in the next exciting chapter :D
Hans von Lieven
EDIT Sorry guys, forgot to attach Bryan's patent. Here it is:
Hans i don't know if you saw it but i took a freq reading and i posted results some depths were 40 hz some were 60. How would DC give a freq reading? Thats what brought me to the conclusion that using the rods we have as the power source would create a rotating magnetic field as opposed to a static dc one. Now on the topic of the secondary copper coil wound around the whole plug i know there were reports of it having dc output but his patent and other places refer to the output of this cell as secondary current. We do know that some power tools will run off dc and other assorted ac items so maybe somebody got confused along the lines and called it dc when in essence it was polarized ac or pulsed dc. I could be wrong but after reading all the postings here on this forum and evaluating some of the likeness and differences this conclusion seems logical.
Exactly my point Joe,
If the device was dependent on pure galvanic action there should be no oscillations. There aren't any in a galvanic battery. So where are they coming from? This is what we are trying to determine.
Hans von Lieven
@Bill I just saw your video. Awesome man , the same thing happened when i measured amperage, try taking a resistor inline and the measure it meaning positive to resistor then + probe to other side of resistor and - probe to - ground electrode i think that will give you a more stable current measurement. Again great work, folks are really starting to take an interest. ;D
Joe
@hans: it's better than reading a good novel! The coil part is certainly the key, and determining what is happening.
We should build a few of these devices and set up a testing procedure. Would be good to have people in different parts of the world participate so we can see how the earth's magnetic field influences the devices. Either everyone should build exactly the same device or we should come up with a bunch of configurations and let one person try each one to save time. Different wire gauges, different number of turns on primary & secondary obviously make a big difference in the results obtained. Do people agree that with some experimental results we may be able to get a better picture of what's going on?
@Bill
Is your led is still up? I have put 1.5" diameter copper tube about 12" into ground and 1.75" aluminum tube at the same depth 4 feet apart. All I've got was .745VDC and .101 mA.
@LocalJoe
First, thanks for bringing this topic up. I really enjoy it. Can you suggest how to wind the coil? Thanks to Hans I know it is wound on soft iron core like transformer. Primary both copper and iron wire insulated are they going together or one on top of the other. What wire gauge to use on primary what on secondary? you can give me please different specs what yours going to be then we can compare results. Thanks, George
The iron wire has to be exposed but not touch it self so side by side would be the answer your looking for. As well somewhere it said the larger the capacitor you have the easier it flows so a big cap for the initial experiments may be very fruitful. Like the big blue tin can looking ones that folks use for large storage low voltage. Just a thought.
Joe
G'day all,
The way I read it it is irrelevant if the iron wire is bare or encased in some insulating material. According to the patent it is also irrelevant how many windings there are.
What would appear to be important is that the iron wire or the copper wire for that matter do not come into contact with each other or the core.
Stubblefield seems to be certain on that, or he was just hedging his bets against usurpers of his patent. Only experiment will show.
Hans von Lieven
@ Localjoe:
Thanks for the compliment on the video. It was hurried and a little crude with a few mistakes but, I wanted to get the info out there. I will look into your resistor idea. Thanks again for posting this topic. Very exciting.
@ George:
Yes, it is. And the cap is fully charged and will light it on its own also. With your experiment, according to the galvanic chart published here earlier by me, you should have read .85 vdc just by the metal difference. I have always been able to better that galvanic number by a good percentage, and you should too. First, were your electrodes set up so the copper was to the north and the aluminum to the south aligned on the north/south meridian? (NOT) the magnetic north, depending on your location it will be different. I have found this makes a difference which is very measurable. What Localjoe suggested in the very begining, which I did, was to plant your most positive metal to the north (in your case, the copper) and then, probe around along the n/s alignment a few inches deep to obtain the true polar north south by using the area that shows the highest readings. Then, sink your aluminum rod there. I'll bet you find a big improvement by doing this. Also, by reading the articles posted on this thread, I read that the south post/pole should be not as deep as the one to the north. By experimenting with these parameters, you should be easily able to exceed the galvanic chart's numbers. I have in the past but with my current setup, I am only in the ground 2" with the magnesium block so I know I am giving up something there. Still looking for a mag rod of some decent length. Best of luck.
@ Hans:
I am greatly enjoying reading your posts. This is like a treasure hunt where we have a few pieces of a map, and need to fill in the rest. It should be fun. Thanks for your efforts here.
Bill
G'day all,
I think we should get Scotty Lang of Leedskalnin.com in on this discussion. This thing with the bi-filar, bi-metal coil is right up his alley and would certainly interest him. I will write to him and invite him into this discussion.
Hans von Lieven
I have a question. I have been thinking a lot lately (which might be considered dangerous by some) and I want to raise this issue. We can continue in another topic so as to not clutter this thread, but I will ask it here. Have I achieved O.U. by lighting an led from an earth battery? I am obviously not the first, Stubblefield,( and others) localjoe, and the guy on the video with an led in his bathroom, etc. What I am asking is this: Is putting some rods in the earth and obtaining electricity (at any measurable amount) O.U.? I have always thought of O.U. as getting more out of a system than you put in. If this is the definition, I would say, yes we have. But, (there is always a but) if true than what about solar power? Take a few silicon wafers and stick them in the sunlight and...bingo....electricity. Would solar also be considered O.U.? If not, why not?
If both questions above are answered in the affirmative, then what is all of the "debate" in science about O.U. being unobtainable by "known" laws? If the answer to the above questions is no to both, then, what is O.U.?
As I said, this might need another topic created to discuss but, I would like the people working on these experiments with the earth batteries to respond with their opinions.
I am already planning a field trip to Murry, Ky, to check out Stubblefield's museum and possibly view some records and maybe some saved devices. Thanks.
Bill
G'day Bill,
If a light burning because of a solar panel is OU then of course you have it.
The problem with OU is that no-one is game to define UNITY !
Without that definition the label might be politically correct though scientifically it is meaningless. Since we do not know how much potential energy is contained in anything ( all we know is what the theoretical maximum of the energy we are CAPABLE of extracting is ) the whole discussion of overunity is academic.
If instead we apply the idea that overunity is extracting more energy than WE put into it then the problem has been solved long ago, all we are trying to do is to find cleaner ways of doing it.
Setting a match to crude oil is extracting more energy than we put into it. We are simply supplying the introductory impulses to liberate that energy.
With water, for instance, we know it is there. It does not respond to lighting a match, we have to be a lot more cunning to extract it.
It's the same all down the line. Energy from nothing is a wank.
Nothing comes from nothing is a philosophical expression of a thesis first argued by Parmenides, often stated in its Latin form: ex nihilo nihil fit. It was true then and it still is.
There is sooooooo much energy lying around out there, all we need to do is gather it. There is simply no need to create it from nothing.
Hans von Lieven
Here's something off the web on Stubblefield:
---
Nathan Stubblefield's observations of natural electrical manifestations led him to consider the taking of "free" electrical energy from the earth. His excessive study of theoretical literature taught that no such advantage could be obtained by using earth batteries. Writers contended that vast amounts of energy could never be used to drive the engine-works of industry by earth battery power. He saw that, unless a new breakthrough in the art could be found, the theoreticians would be correct.
Older linesmen taught Stubblefield about sensitive ground spots: how "uncommonly great" electrical activity had to be patiently searched out. These electrical hot spots, when compared with most adjoining ground, were like electrical oil wells. Finding the "right spot" would do more than simply insure good ground connection for telegraph lines. Certain ground power points could actually power the lines! Motivated toward deeper research by his own natural observations and intuitive sensation, Stubblefield devised several earth batteries. His own peculiar ability to sense earth energies taught that it was vast in quantity, yet untapped by humanity. The means for drawing out the energy could be found!
Stubblefield knew that ground probes, placed into various spots, reveal an amazing degree of electrical activity. These currents varied across any chosen plot of ground. Wet soils often reverse the expected electrical strength; weakening rather than strengthening their magnitude. Stubblefield knew that a proper placement of metallic ground probes could produce stronger currents for use. But he did not anticipate what he then accidentally discovered. His initial experiments involved the development and examination of simple earth batteries: buried metallic arrangements, which produced weak electrolytic power. Mr. Stubblefield observed a strange "earth-charging phenomenon", reporting that the burial of an "earth energy cell" required time to build up charge. During the first phase of this charge building process, the characteristic weak output was observed. This was usually a volt at half an ampere, the general electrolytic output of buried metals.
From his linesman mentors, Stubblefield knew that placement of any grounded metal was the key toward deriving power. If properly placed, the energetic output of his cell would be phenomenal. Finding such a power point, he buried the cell. The process took a week or more to build strength. Once the cell was "saturated", however, it became (in his words) "a conduit of earth charge". This mysterious transition from weak battery to energy conduit required time.
Typical of his curt statements, Mr. Stubblefield simply stated that the fully saturated coil suddenly "manifested an electromotive force far greater than any known wet-cell". This state being achieved, the cell flowed over in "commercial electrical volumes".
He did not claim complete knowledge of the phenomenon. He observed that the activity "reached into weeks and months of continuous work night and day".
Stubblefield envisioned the energy cell as a "plug", drawing out the electrical charge of the ground. The cell coils acted as a lumped conductor. Charge saturated this conductor and flowed up into it, powering any electrically connected appliance. After repeated exhumations, the copper element of these cells was found "not acted on in any perceptible degree ... even after repeated renewals".
Mr. Stubblefield described means by which such cells could be connected in series at short distances from one another. "With these, acting as electrodes ... you draw from the electrical energy of the earth a constant E.M.F. of commercial value". That phrase... "acting as electrodes..." is the heart of the Stubblefield energy cell. It is not a battery. It absorbs and flows over with the stupendous energy of the earth's charge.
This device, an earthed electrode, drew up enough natural electric charge from the earth to operate motors, pumps, arc lamps, and all the components of his ground telephone system. The implementation of his earth energy technology would have changed the nature of American Society, were it permitted free market expression in its day.
Mr. Stubblefield later stated in very plain language that the earth was filled with "an electrical ocean". This electrical ocean was surging with huge "electrical waves" which could be felt, brimming over in certain places. No doubt, he was one who felt the ground energy. Stubblefield sensed that the ground currents arrived in powerful electrical waves. In Stubblefield's visionary approach, the electrical waves permeated the ground. These electrical waves were like ocean waves: ceaselessly surging and cresting over.
---
Source: http://www.hbci.com/~wenonah/history/nathan-s.htm
Bill ,
I think we could look at it this way. As far as im concerned theres two major alternative energy sources available to the public. Solar and Wind. Were delving into a third, In my eyes, because done right this baby should be self sufficient and not need external input to start producing power, just that of a few ground rods. When i think over unity i think of combining mechanical and electronic ideas to achieve an efficiency greater than 100.00 %
A simple way to start is a magnet motor, most here have dabbled a bit but its defiantly possible. Bedini theoretically layed it out for folks great maybe not all his designs but in essence the guy has a pulse motor which has a few coils that send bemf pulse while running into a secondary sub system that has a motor and spins what he calls an energizer and we call an alternator to produce a bit of power, he then has a switching setup to charge the battery or cap for the initial motor that way the setup would be self sufficient.. Plus nefb mags weren't as prevalent in the 70's and 80's these magnets have way larger flux densities.. And will probably usher in a new gen of pulse motors as were seeing now.... But I say the most promising things out there to work on, are This project just because of simplicity and mother earth, The tpu modled after a particle accelerator, and a real working homopolar motor. My first experiments were with the homopolar motor and it gives off some sort of plused dc or what not when you run it through a coil.. Awsome blue plasma at night tooo :)
@bill
I think the distinction between overunity and free energy often gets blurred in the professional and private sectors. with my limited knowledge on any of these subjects, i have come to an understanding that an object in order to be classified as overunity, energy must have been used to in turn to create more energy from an object. Much like the Newman motor that uses 9V batteries to run a massive water pump.
on the other hand, solar cells and earth batteries are probably better termed as receivers and/or converters. These are tools that are used to tap the energy that is around us already. Isn't this what is called free/zero-point energy?
As the future of energy production evolves, i think that the most ideal path would be learning how to tap into the energy that is constantly around us.
G'day all,
I have written to Scotty Lang of Leedskalnin.com to get his take on the Stubblefield coil. He is the most knowledgeable guy on magnetism I know and I would like to incorporate his thoughts into the next chapter.
So please be patient, I will publish the next installment as soon as I am ready.
Hans von Lieven
@ Hans:
I agree 100%. I also think the term used by BRAHMA is very appropriate..."Converters". Why try to create something from nothing when there is so much out there just begging to be converted.
@Localjoe:
I agree also about going after the more simple, elegant methods of energy conversion or reception. Speaking of coils, correct me if I am wrong, but isn't an ignition coil just a large cap? It works with dc and takes 12vdc to 50,000vdc or more. Would it take my 1.6 vdc to 5,000 volts? Or 8,000 volts? What if the coil were buried in the ground also? So many questions, so little time.
@ akashh:
Good info there. The more information we have, the better. Thanks.
Thanks to all who answered my question on O.U. I feel like I am tapping into a source of power for free energy by reception and or conversion so, I agree it makes the O.U. question moot. Back to work now.
Bill
Sorry Bill,
An ignition coil is not a large capacitor, it does not work with DC, it needs a pulse to fire.
Hans
Hans:
My car runs on 12 volts dc right? The coil there ups that from 12 volts to 50,000 volts doesn't it? By pulse, do you mean (like in the old days before computer controlled ignition) when the distributor lined up with the spark plug wire terminal for a certain cylinder, the coil discharged and then was recharged such that the voltages were released in pulses when sparking from the electrode to the engine block ground? I have seen several "Jaccobs Ladders" constructed from car ignition coils which were only hooked directly to dc power via battery or power supply. They appeared to supply a continues high voltage until the spark climbed up the gap at the top and started again at the bottom.
Pardon my ignorance here, I am still re-reading my electronics textbooks that I thankfully still have on hand. The old ignition systems utilized a condenser also but I thought that was used for the times when the coil was not firing. If you would not mind explaining this, I would appreciate it. I am also attempting to find information on how to make coils which is not so easy to come by thus far. Thanks Hans.
Bill
The DC fed into the coil must be interrupted for the coil to fire. In the high voltage circuits using automotive coils they use some sort of oscillator often a 555 timer circuit to generate the pulses. In the old cars, before electronic ignition the DC was interrupted by a mechanical device (remember the old points?)
For the coil to function you need either AC or pulsed DC. Straight DC does nothing but burn the primary out.
Hans von Lieven
Hans:
Thanks, that makes sense to me now. Yes, I remember the old ignition points. Good thing about them was, you could always file them a bit and get home. Now a chip overheats and you are stuck. So, the points initiated/created the pulse. Excellent, thanks again.
Bill
http://www.cheniere.org/correspondence/032403a.htm (http://www.cheniere.org/correspondence/032403a.htm)
The entire article is at the above link. But here is a most interesting section:
"Voila! By such techniques, one can suddenly get real power out of the earth and ordinary materials in certain structuring, and plenty of it is available as one gradually learns to manipulate those self-orderings. One can power a house, etc. -- and in very peculiar fashion. The WALLS can be made to emit light, e.g., and so can the earth outside the earth itself. One of the pioneers, Stubblefield (before Tesla; we have a photo of folks watching a Stubblefield demo, where Tesla is in the onlookers) powered and lit his cabin this way, and he often stimulated the surrounding hills so the earth in them emitted light and lit up the entire area. He also produced electrical power for his cabin this way."
This guy has a theory about what might be going on but I don't understand it. (I am not sure if he does either)
I also read in another article that Stubblefield somehow vibrated his coils at rf levels which is why he is credited by the town of Murry, KY and a fairly recent court decision, as the original inventer of radio. I can post a link about that one as well if anyone is interested.
Bill
Here are (hopefully) some pictures from earth battery patents.
Bill
G'day Bill and all.
Here is one of my better finds. The picture below is of Stubblefield's school that he set up with the help of Tesla.
The top right hand picture shows Stubblefield with his family and some of his equipment. in the bottom left corner of that picture is a box of Stubblefield's earth batteries. I have enlarged this section a little and posted it underneath.
Have fun.
Hans von Lieven
Ah ha i found the answer to the cap and the tree, check this out Bill and Hans this seems to be more on point for our initial findings here
:)
Source: KeelyNet / Jerry Decker email (12/21/05)
"Unlimited Electric Energy from the Environment?"
An alternative electric power generating system that draws energy from a seemingly unlikely yet abundant, eminently renewable and virtually free power source has been submitted for patenting by MagCap Engineering, LLC, Canton, Mass., in collaboration with Gordon W. Wadle, an inventor from Thomson, Ill. Wadle has invented a way to capture the energy generated by a living non- animal organism --- such as a tree.
Chris Lagadinos, president of MagCap, developed circuitry that converts this natural energy source into useable DC power capable of sustaining a continuous current to charge and maintain a battery at full charge.
"As unbelievable as it sounds, we've been able to demonstrate the feasibility of generating electricity in this manner," said Wadle.
"While the development is in its infancy, it has the potential to provide an unlimited supply of constant, clean energy without relying on fossil fuels, a power generating plant complex or an elaborate transmission network."
Wadle likened the invention to the discovery of electricity over 200 years ago when charged particles were harnessed to create an electric current. "Now we've learned that there is an immense, inexhaustible source of energy literally all around us that can be harnessed and converted into usable electric power," he said. Ultimately, it should prove to be more practical than solar energy or wind power, and certainly more affordable than fuel cells, he added.
Wadle said he got the original idea of harnessing a tree for electrical energy from studying lightening, more than 50 percent of which originates from the ground. This prompted him to develop the theories resulting in a method to access this power source.
Lagadinos then designed circuitry that filtered and amplified these energy emanations, creating a useable power source.
Basically, the existing system includes a metal rod embedded in the tree, a grounding rod driven into the ground, and the connecting circuitry, which filters and boosts the power output sufficient to charge a battery.
In its current experimental configuration, the demonstration system produces 2.1 volts, enough to continuously maintain a full charge in a nickel cadmium battery attached to an LED light. "Think of the environment as a battery, in this case," said Lagadinos, "with the tree as the positive pole and the grounding rod as the negative."
Lagadinos said the system could be enhanced enough to generate 12 volts and one amp of power, "a desirable power level that could be used to power just about anything," he said. It is enough power to charge batteries for any type of vehicle, including hybrids and electric cars, or to use with an AC converter to produce household power, he added. The LED industry is a prime example of a potential user of this power source.
While the basic concept of this invention -- using a tree to generate electric power -- seems too incredible to be true, Lagadinos said it can be demonstrated quite simply. "Simply drive an aluminum roofing nail through the bark and into the wood of a tree -- any tree -- approximately one half inch; drive a copper water pipe six or seven inches into the ground, then get a standard off-the-shelf digital volt meter and attach one probe to the pipe, the other to the nail and you'll get a reading of anywhere from 0.8 to 1.2 volts of DC power," he said.
"You can't do anything with it in that form because it is 'dirty' -- i.e. highly unstable and too weak to power anything," he added. In order to properly harness this potential energy source, MagCap devised two test circuits: one with three capacitors that were connected in parallel by means of a switch and charged to 0.7 volts each.
When fully charged they are switched to a series mode, multiplying the voltage to 2.1 volts and flashing an LED to show that sufficient power could be generated to produce a useable result. The second circuit included a filtering device to stabilize and "clean" the current so it could be used to charge and maintain a NiCad battery.
The battery then could be connected to the LED to keep the LED lit continuously. Wadle pointed out that there seems to be no limit to the amount of power that can be drawn from an individual tree, no matter how many "taps" are inserted -- each produces the same amount of energy, an average of 0.7 - 0.8 volts. Size of the tree also seems not to matter.
Interestingly, while conventional wisdom would seem to indicate that the tree draws much of its energy from photosynthesis via its leaves, the voltage output actually increases to 1.2-1.3 volts in the winter after the leaves have fallen.
@ Localjoe:
Excellent find man! I see what they did with the caps, they got.7 volts and used three caps in series to achieve 2.1 vdc. Heck, we are getting more than that out of the initial tests. (more than their .7 vdc) So, I can hook up three caps to my 1.6 and get 4.8 vdc? My gut opinion/guess is that they are also tapping into the telluric currents by using the trees. I think they are incorrect about the power coming from the trees, I think it is coming from the earth through the trees. But, who knows? I have only one tree here that I can test but since I rent, I don't own it. Oh well, no one will notice a small hole here or there. This is an interesting twist of events. Thanks.
@Hans:
Great pictures. His batteries are smaller than I envisioned them. I sure wish we could get our hands on one for examination.
There is perhaps more to this than meets the eye, some of it not so good.
This is an excerpt from an article about Stubblefield written by one of his grandchildren:
? Grandpa was now once again blamed by his wife of 36 years for accidently poisoning three of their nine children through inadvertencies. Neither, at the time of their experimenting with various mixtures of Pitchblende and salt crystals within their 85 farmland soil, knew it was contaminating Teleph-on-delgreen. From 1881 to 1906, the soil-coil RF antenna "hotspots" -- that made it possible for Grandpa Nathan Stubblefield to develop and patent the 1898 induction earth batteries and 1908 Wireless Telephone? -- did contaminate their foodstuffs and water.
? ? It wasn't until 1906 when their son Tesla died teething on a potato from one of the RF antenna "hotspots," -- that they realized that it could have been the RF antenna "hotspots," mixtures of Pitchblende, salt crystals and other active metals that created the healthy looking but tainted vegetable gardens. The watermelons, tobacco and other vegetation they had commenced growing and selling since their courtship in 1880, when he was 20 and Ada Mae, 16 years of age became an invitation for both invention and the destruction of a family.
? ? They couldn't shake the sense of dread, so Ada Mae on their 36th anniversary, 1917, left Grandpa Nat stranded. He moved his gear to a one room hut and became a stranger than fiction recluse. On summer nights, he would shock his neighbors by lighting up hill sides from his hut, with his buried RF induction transmitting coils.
One wonders what he did to the ground, the batteries as patented could not do this.
Hans von Lieven
The concept of getting higher voltages by charging capacitors got me thinking. After quite a bit of googling, it seems we want something like this:
http://home.earthlink.net/~jimlux/hv/cw1.htm
That's a Cockroft Walton Voltage Multiplier, which uses standard capas and diodes to boost the output. We'd have to see what the diode does since voltages are so low to start with. I was thinking that the output of this could be connected to a battery through a transistor & op-amp with hysteresis. If for example we get 1 V that charges up out voltage octoplier, we'd eventually get 8V at the output. We could then switch on our transistor and pipe this energy into a 4.5V or 6V battery. When voltage reaches say 6V, the op-amp switches the transistor off and the charging starts again.
I'm not an electronics pro but may be able to put this together if it's interesting to all.
Yes deffiantly i was going to tell all that im going to try a small voltge x ing circuit before a stubblefield coil ... and we'd love to see your idea. Ive got a few old computer psu's with plenty of parts i can unsolder ,i think it has a bunch of the 35 v cap's fat ones tho should be a nice test when we arc a screwdriver across the cap terminals. 8)
Joe
Update, tests.
Got a break in the weather for the last couple of days, plus some free time, so following up on the previous test results and additional configurations:
Maintaining control parameters
Test parameters as before but oriented East-West
Used 2 Zinc Hot Dipped Nails 12? long 3/8? Dia ( 30cm L x 1 cm Dia)
Driven into the ground to a depth of 10 Inches (25 cm)
Distance apart 23 feet (7 m)
Readings:
No resistor (open circuit)
Voltage 0.001 mV DC (trickle effect due to multimeter?)
Ofc as expected over a 1k zero voltage and zero current
However:
This is in contrast to the some readings using the same setup North-South, see previous tests, so based on this, there maybe something to telluric currents
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3500.msg58636.html#msg58636
and
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3500.msg57637.html#msg57637
Now some interesting readings using zinc-copper couple
Using 1 zinchotdipped Nail as above and ?? DIA Copper pipe driven to same depth as above and same distance apart, oriented East-West
Readings:
No resistor
Voltage 0.87 VDC
Current 1.02 mA (using multimeter and whatever its shunt is inside)
Over 1k resistor (1024Ohm)
Voltage 0.51 Vdc
Resulting in 0.49 mA
Next same as above but orientation N(zinc)-S(copper)
Open Voltage .877 VDC
Over 1K resistance
0.456 VDC
Resulting in 0.45mA
Next same as above but N(copper)-S(zinc)
Open Voltage 0.834 VDC
Over 1k
0.342 VDC
Resulting in 0.33 mA
Measurments were taken under load (1k) for 2 days sampling . Over 10 readings the numbers were within 0.003 VDC so pretty tight and repeatable.
Some thoughts.
For these configurations the current (even though apparently constant for the 2 day period) is fairly low for lighting up an eg LED with one couple of rods Maybe at more depth and surface area contact plus multiple couples, it would be able to light up some high efficiency ultrabright LEDs all year around. Could be an interesting setup for the flower bed area.
It appears from the Zinc-Zinc tests, that it is not a pure galvanic reaction but some other effect come in play.
It also appears that N-S does effect (positively) the output. And with dissimilar metals, in this case zinc/copper, when copper is positioned N there is a slight advantage.
What?s interesting, is that there is a Voltage across zinc/copper couple when they are oriented East-West, is this galvanic reaction then?
Also tested at 2 .3 ft apart east west z-cu and got similar readings.
Good thread, nice contributions from many members.
Pirate88179, yeah the utility services check is a must do and it?s free, These folks shared some interesting stories, one customer cracked the gas line while trying to install his own fence posts.(code here calls for 32 inch min depth). Another went clear through the power cable had to get EMS involved as he got both a nasty shock and minor burn.
hansvonlieven, good sleuthing on the Stubblefield's work/patents.
Thanks
What actually happens when earth batteries are put in series or parallel? Do they behave like normal batteries?
QuoteIn its current experimental configuration, the demonstration system produces 2.1 volts, enough to continuously maintain a full charge in a nickel cadmium battery attached to an LED light. "Think of the environment as a battery, in this case," said Lagadinos, "with the tree as the positive pole and the grounding rod as the negative."
The above quote is from the article posted by Localjoe on the tree energy project. I went out this a.m. for a minute and used my voltmeter on my tree and learned something. First, they have the polarity backward in the article from what I just experienced. Maybe that was a type of disinformation, who knows. Maybe there are positive and negative trees? I got .17 vdc by stabbing my -lead into the tree and the + lead into the earth. Both probes were only in about 1/4 inch deep.
@Mikestock:
Great work, keep it up.
@ Hans:
This makes it sound like he was seeding his "hotspot" areas with some dangerous chemicals. Or, could it have been the decomposition of his copper that Stefan warned us about in an earlier thread? He was concerned we would poision our gardens. Great research Hans, but I don't really like this news.
@Gaby:
I only attempted to effect a series test one time and once I attached the lead to tie the + -, to the next +- it shorted the whole works out to 0. I probably need some guidance from you electronics guys out there to do this correctly.
Bill
@ akashh:
Cockroft Walton Voltage Multipliers
Thanks for this info. Can you or any of the electronics guys out there tell me how to build one? I see the circuit diagram but it would be helpful to have a list of required components, then I could see if I were up to the task. This sounds ideal for charging the caps....big caps.
Thanks,
Bill
Quote from: gaby de wilde on November 20, 2007, 12:21:05 PM
What actually happens when earth batteries are put in series or parallel? Do they behave like normal batteries?
Yes Gaby, they do.
Hans von Lieven
The electrodes don't know which is primary or secondary in series. You would end up with 1 earth battery and another one that is shorted out. But parallel you get zero. ok, that does explain why one would charge a row of cap's separately. Then when the caps are charged you can discharge them in any grid mix of parallel and series. I'm a bit confused on the overunity forum as I'm always interested in the combination of devices. Then have to take topics off topic it seems. lol I've seen people use pulsed coils and motors using dead batteries, like with no current just a bit of volts. The earth battery seems to deliver much better seed energy to feed this kind of devices. A dead battery does deliver good proof but it would be nice to have a bit bigger input as that. (using some kind of free energy of course) Can't one power a Newman machine with a bunch of caps? Or one of Mr Bedini's variations? Those give enough clean amp to charge a battery do they not?
G'day guys.
I have to go back to my earlier post, I have just remembered something which might be of importance here. When talking about Stubblefield contaminating the earth I quoted:
? ? It wasn't until 1906 when their son Tesla died teething on a potato from one of the RF antenna "hotspots," -- that they realized that it could have been the RF antenna "hotspots," mixtures of Pitchblende, salt crystals and other active metals that created the healthy looking but tainted vegetable gardens.
I missed it on the first reading through but then I remembered what Pitchblende is. It is an old fashioned German term for a mineral that is now known as Uraninite.
IT IS RADIOACTIVE !
Now what the f*ck was Stubblefield doing with radioactive materials and what has this to do with the earth batteries.
This is getting weirder every day! I am having a fine time researching this.
Hans von Lieven
Quote from: gaby de wilde on November 20, 2007, 01:36:21 PM
The electrodes don't know which is primary or secondary in series. You would end up with 1 earth battery and another one that is shorted out. But parallel you get zero. ok, that does explain why one would charge a row of cap's separately.
Have a look at the Dieckmann and Emme patents that Bill listed on the previous page . They show series arrangements of earth batteries.
Incidentally you have a similar arrangement in a 12 Volt car battery where there are several cells sharing a common electrolyte. Galvanic cells typically produce no more than 1.5 Volt.
Hans von Lieven
EDIT Sorry Gaby, I missed part of it. The electrodes DO know which is, as you call it, primary or secondary in series.
Remember we have two dissimilar metals, say copper and zink. copper to copper and zink to zink is parallel, copper to zink copper to zink is series with the first zink and the last copper being the terminals.
@ Hans:
Yes, exactly! Pitchblende was what Madam Curie used as a radioactive source in order to isolate the polonium and radium from uranium in her research. I know that it occurs naturally in North America but, as far as I know, only in the northern lattitudes...upstate N.Y., Canada, etc. I never heard of it here in Kentucky. Uranium would most assuredly have an effect on the potato patch. (NOT GOOD!) Hey Hans, it said "Healthy looking but tainted vegetable garden." I'll be the radioactivity made for some huge, fast growing vegetables no? I'm sorry I missed this the first time around. Glad you caugt it. I'll have to read more slowly and carefully.
It would be interesting to take a geiger counter over to his original site, I'll bet is goes....click,click,click,click....
Bill
This stuff would have been removed by now. From what I can gather Stubblefield's site is now the Murray State University, which incidentally has a collection of Stubblefield papers, letters and so forth, perhaps even the odd device.
Hans von Lieven
pitchblende (radioactive) + copper coils = magnification = William N. Barbat
tak
Thanks for the information tak,
Here is the link to Barbat's invention http://www.rexresearch.com/barbat/barbat.htm
Fascinating stuff, this might explain a lot!
Hans von Lieven
Quote from Barbat:
QuoteThis disclosure introduces a technical field in which practical electrical energy is created in accordance with the overlooked exception to the energy-conservation rule that Herman von Helmholtz described in his 1847 doctrine on energy conservation: "If . . . bodies possess forces which depend upon time and velocity, or which act in directions other than lines which unite each pair of material points, . . . then combinations of such bodies are possible in which force may be either lost or gained ad infinitum." A transverse inductive force qualifies for Helmholtz's ad infinitum rule, but this force is not sufficient of itself to cause a greater energy output than input when applied to electrons of normal mass due to their unique charge-to-mass ratio. However, the increased acceleration of conduction electrons of less-than-normal inertial mass, as occurs in photoconductors, doped semiconductors, and superconductors, is proportional to the normal electron mass divided by the low electron mass, and the magnification of harnessable inductive energy is proportional to the greater relative acceleration, squared.
Magnetic force also satisfies Helmholtz's exemption to the energy-conservation rule because magnetic force is transverse to the force that causes it, and magnetic force is determined by the "relative velocity" (i.e., perpendicular to the connecting line) between electric charges. Magnification of magnetic force and energy was demonstrated by E. Leimer (1915) in the coil of a speaker phone and in the coil of a galvanometer when he irradiated a radio antenna-wire with radium. A 10-milligram, linear radium source produced a measured 2.6-fold increase in electrical current in the antenna-wire in comparing inaudible radio reception without radium to audible reception with radium. This represented a (2.6).sup.2=7.times. increase in electrical energy flowing through the respective wire coils. The possibility of this enhanced reception being attributed to a person's body holding the unit of radium to the wire was eliminated by Leimer's additional observation that, whenever the orientation of the small radium unit was changed to approximately 30 degrees relative to the wire, the energy enhancement ceased.
Helmholtz again!
This gets wilder and wilder. Keely's and to some degree Tesla's work is largely based on Helmholtz's discoveries, so it would appear is Stubblefield's.
We are really opening a can of worms here, the implications of which are at present beyond my comprehension.
Hans von Lieven
Hans:
This is fantastic!!!! My head is reeling and I will need to go back and read all of this again. Who the heck knows what will turn up next? Started with pipes in the ground, electrodes, Stubblefield, Keely, Tesla, Hemholtz, radioactivity, trees, poison potatos, and......?
Localjoe, you may have started something here that might take us all beyond anything we ever even considered before. We can keep the technology open source, but I think we should SELL the book and movie rights...ha ha.
I have to go out on an assignment now but I can't wait to check this topic when I return.
Bill
Don't hold your breath Bill,
I have some serious reading and thinking to do. :-) It might take a while.
Hans
Good sleuthing... however exciting as it is, that's where my interest in experimentation ends. If it turns out we need to use blocks of radioactive stuff, I'll stick with solar and wind. But it definitely does explain a lot about what stubblefield used to excite his weird little coil.
Don't give up on it yet akash,
There is a lot more to it than appears even now. Keely did not use radioactive material neither did Helmholtz or Tesla, and if my hunch is right there are other ways to excite the coils than using radioactivity.
The closest thing to radioactive bombardment is a pressure wave. Just bear this in mind.
It's early days yet.
Hans von Lieven
Hans:
Pressure wave as in...magnetic...acoustic...or...? (any or all of the above) I agree that it is way to early to "give up" or form any conclusions at this point. Hell, we are just getting started. I picked up two book from the local library on my way home that had ref. to Stubblefield in them. Each book only had a chapter each. It was the same old bio/background stuff, nothing new to report. "One book did say that all of his equipment and devices have disappeared." I hope this is not true. I want to see what the Stubblefield museum has in their archives and inventory.
Bill
No Bill, it is not true, I have seen reports of people seeing some of his devices in a local museum. Perhaps someone at the university can tell you where the stuff is kept.
Hans von Lieven
Hans:
I'm on it. This is where being an investigator might really pay off. Also, I am here in Kentucky which I think is fortuitous.
Bill
Here a short quote from my website about Keely's approach to fundamentally the same problem.
Keely observed that huge forces held particles together in 'corpuscular embraces'. He knew this because he had been able to disrupt these 'embraces' and liberated extraordinary amounts of energy whose origin could not be explained in any other way. We know today that this is true. Hiroshima and Nagasaki are stark reminders of that fact.
It is interesting to note that this was unknown to science in Keely's time. That Keely knew this gives his observations and experiments more credit than anything else he did.
He was one of the first to state categorically that there were enormous amounts of energy locked up in atomic and sub-atomic particles that could be liberated.
Ironically, that was also the statement that discredited him most with the scientists of his day.
The only point where contemporary science and Keely differ is that science maintains that the only way to disrupt these 'embraces' is by bombardment with particles, in other words levelling a big gun at it and start shooting it to pieces.
This approach would have seemed crude and brutal to Keely, had he known about it.
We are dealing with essentially the same thing here, I do not believe we need radioactivity, either a sonic or perhaps a magnetic field will suffice. I prefer sonic since it is possible to direct the field with more precision than a magnetic field an since it lends itself to "shaping" more readily than any field of magnetic origin.
Hans von Lieven
Below are some book reviews for a self published book that I will attempt to locate. I thought it might make interesting reading. (The reviews) Bill
I've been waiting for this one since first hearing about the featured inventor way back in graduate school more than 35 years ago. It's surprising nobody has done this before. But this appears to be the first book-length treatment on Nathan Beverly Stubblefield (1860-1928), the legendary Kentucky melon farmer who some (who don't know better) think invented radio years before Marconi. A member of the Murray State University faculty, Lochte has gotten behind years of local community hype to find out just what the man did-and did not-accomplish in a series of 1890s and early 1900s demonstrations.
What makes this self-published volume so useful is that Lochte has gathered more photos, patent reprints, and other information in one place than anybody else has managed over the years. While his findings won't please some of the Murray Chamber of Commerce types (who love to tout their town as the real birthplace of radio), they surely do place Stubblefield where he belongs-as an early telephone entrepreneur who pursued what turned out to be a wireless dead end. While purists might argue with Lochte's reference to his subject as "Nathan" throughout (they obviously did not know one another), that is a minor complaint for what is really a very well done biographical survey separating a bit of wheat from years of chaff.
Appendices include reproductions of Stubblefield's four patents, his 1902 statement on wireless telephony, a reprint of a 1902 Scientific American article, and reprints of an oft-cited speech and article on which others have drawn. Photos include both historical and current material and are well reproduced. This is fascinating and readable stuff.
Christopher H. Sterling
George Washington University
It's the eyes - the windows of the soul - that first attract the reader to open this book. Nathan Stubblefield's eyes stare from the vintage photo on the cover, inviting a curiosity about an early age in broadcast history. Was Stubblefield a visionary Kentucky farmer who invented the wireless telephone, as the title declares? "But was it radio?" the subtitle taunts. No matter what, those very eyes were eaten out by a cat before Stubblefield's decomposing body was found after the hermit starved to death. This fascinating book sorts out the facts from the folklore surrounding Stubblefield.
This richly illustrated book is a lively mixture of odd truths to help both the curious reader and the competent historian. What is found in the book is a compelling tale that is really two tales. First, there is the story of Stubblefield's inventions: What they did, how they worked, and why they failed. And second, the reader sees how newspaper accounts combined with boosterism from his hometown chamber of commerce - complete with songs and plays - and theatrics from a wacky relative, created a fictional, almost mythical image of the man.
Beyond providing interest for the broadcast historian and radio buff, this book makes a distinct contribution to the history of media product marketing. For public relations and strategic marketing scholars, it traces in detail how the press can interplay with paid advertising and staged media events to promote a new technology. In Stubblefield's era, the inventor and his financial backers staged a press demonstration on the banks of the Potomac. Today, public relations firms vie for time on morning network news magazines to push hot new technologies.
This book is a delightful read.
Journal of Radio Studies
The United States has its own homegrown Marconis, inventors who staked an early technological claim on ways of communication that dispensed with the annoying need for connecting wires. Amos Dolbear, Mahlon Loomis, and even Alexander Graham Bell all developed competing systems of wireless communication in the late nineteenth century that ran the gamut from the use of induction to light.
And then there is the case of Murray, Kentucky's favorite son, Nathan B. Stubblefield, an eccentric farmer and self-taught inventor who died in 1928. Legend has grown up around Stubblefield as the result of a series of inventions, experiments, and media coverage he received in his lifetime, as well as some outrageously self-serving claims made by others after his death.
Author Bob Lochte, a professor at Murray State University, has tackled head-on the messy tangle of truth and fiction that surrounds Stubblefield, and attempted to sort out just what's what. The first part of Kentucky Farmer... is a relatively brief factual account of Stubblefield's life and achievements. Ambitious beyond his rural farming background and self-educated about things electrical, Stubblefield made his debut in the fledgling telecommunications realm by supplying telephone services - of a sort - to his neighbors in Murray in the 1880s. His "Vibrating Telephone" was little more than a slightly sophisticated variation on the child's toy of tin cans connected to one another by a taut string. But at a time when Bell's telephone system hadn't yet spread to more rural parts of the country, Stubblefield sold enough of his contraptions to make a living from them for a time.
But the cause of all the controversy that exists to this day has to do with Stubblefield's invention of what amounted to a wireless telephone system that operated via earth conduction using rods inserted into the ground, a device he publicly demonstrated in Washington, Philadelphia, and (unsuccessfully) New York City in 1902. Stubblefield received much media coverage over the system, but Lochte reminds us that others had trod this path before; both William Preece and A. Frederick Collins, for instance, had previously invented (and patented) similar systems to Stubblefield's. At a time when a number of other early wireless pioneers (Lee de Forest pre-eminent among them) willingly engaged in shady stock promotions, Stubblefield, to his great credit, recoiled from the dubious dealings of a promoter with whom he had become involved. Abandoning his efforts to commercially market his earth conduction system of wireless telephony, and after failing to interest the world in an induction coil wireless system, he ended his life a secretive and desperately poor hermit living just outside of Murray.
It is here that the second part of Lochte's story begins: the construction of the mythology of Stubblefield as a misunderstood and neglected wireless genius, a process that began during his lifetime but which took off in earnest after his death from malnutrition in March of 1928. Journalists, the civic leaders of Murray, and even Kentucky State politicians relied heavily on gross exaggerations of a few facts and out and out untruths in their efforts to package and market Stubblefield. Enormous misunderstandings arose, for instance, over the fact that, since Stubblefield's earth conduction system employed telephony rather than telegraphy, it must therefore have amounted to the invention of radio. Accordingly, the community of Murray began to heavily identify itself as the "birthplace of radio." Lochte's account of the entire business makes for a fascinating case study in how legends and myths emerge from embellished truths and simple lies.
Bob Lochte has been studying Stubblefield and his legend since 1990. His research even led him and television engineer Larry Albert to build a working replica of Stubblefield's earth conduction telephone system and successfully demonstrate it. If anyone should get the Stubblefield story right, it should be him. And he doesn't disappoint. The thoroughness of his scholarship is evident throughout his book, and the inclusion of Stubblefield's patents in the appendices, as well as reprints of some of the period articles (including one from Scientific American) that helped get the whole Stubblefield myth started, are particularly useful for those who want to see exactly what the fuss has been all about and how it got started. At a time when Nathan Stubblefield's minor (but notable) achievements in early wireless communication have become so overblown as to rank him up there with Nikola Tesla in the eyes of many contemporary conspiracy theorists, Bob Lochte's Kentucky Farmer Invents Radio! proves to be a much-needed and welcome setting straight of the historical record.
Gil McElroy, QST
Kentucky Farmer Invents Wireless Telephone: But Was It Radio? Facts and Folklore about Nathan Stubblefield appears to be the first book-length treatment on Nathan Beverly Stubblefield, the Kentucky farmer (1860-1928) who some think invented radio before Marconi. A member of the Murray State University faculty, Lochte has gotten behind the local community hype to find out just what the man did and did not accomplish in a series of 1890s and early 1900s demonstrations. Bottom line-Stubblefield did invent a type of conduction point-to-point wireless service, but it was most assuredly NOT broadcasting. What makes this volume so useful is that Lochte has gathered more photos, patent reprints, and other information in one place than anybody else has managed over the years. While his findings won't please some of the Murray Chamber of Commerce types (who love to tout their town as the real birthplace of radio), they surely do place Stubblefield where he belongs-as an early telephone entrepreneur who pursued a wireless dead end. While purists might argue with Lochte's reference to his subject as "Nathan" throughout (they obviously did not know one another), that is a minor complaint for what is really a very well done biographical survey separating wheat from chaff. The peak of Stubblefield's fame came in 1902 when his experiments were written up in several papers. But the story after that is all downhill...to his death from starvation in 1928. Lochte goes an important step further, however, and relates how the myths have grown since 1928, including reprints of oft-cited speeches and articles on which others have drawn. Fascinating stuff.
Communication Booknotes Quarterly
Murray State University professor Bob Lochte has separated fact from fiction in his book about Nathan Stubblefield, the Murray resident who many believe invented radio more than 100 years ago.
In Kentucky Farmer Invents Wireless Telephone? But Was It Radio? Facts and Folklore about Nathan Stubblefield, Lochte has researched Stubblefield's somewhat eccentric past, his claims about wireless signals, and how history got a little distorted through the years.
While the book focuses on Stubblefield (Kentucky Monthly, October 1999, page 24), it also presents a concise history of wireless communications.
Kentucky Monthly
Attempting to interpret the enigmatic mind of Nathan B. Stubblefield is almost certain to be fruitless but in his new book about the Calloway County genius/eccentric/fraud/recluse/legend, Dr. Bob Lochte discovers, speculates, and interprets more fully than any previous endeavor. He certainly is not the first to be so intrigued by the Stubblefield legend, but he is the first to produce a book which so thoroughly examines, and provides such an unprejudiced look at the life and life's work of this uneducated farmer who for a time captured the attention of much of the nation.
Chuck Shuffett, Montage
When a Murray youngster asked Dr. Bob Lochte if it was true that Nathan Stubblefield invented radio, he was speechless. After all the child had heard the lore that the Calloway County melon farmer had bested Guglielmo Marconi, and Murray was the self-proclaimed ?birthplace of radio.?
In 1892, Stubblefield created an electromagnetic induction wireless telephone and showed it to his friend Rainey T. Wells. The first words uttered over the device were ?Hello, Rainey.?
His curiosity piqued, Lochte ... sifted through collections at the Pogue Library and began piecing together Stubblefield?s life and ?the mind-set of 100 years ago.?
Lochte said: ?I don?t think it?s fair to evaluate old technology based on what we know today. People didn?t know that back then. You have to put Nathan into context. Really, most of the people who have found out stuff about Nathan haven?t done an adequate job.?
It?s obvious that a lot of folks want to know. They can start here, and if they want to know more, they can get the real documents and photos.
Paducah Sun
Ask anybody in Murray who really invented radio, and you?ll probably hear it was Nathan B. Stubblefield. But Bob Lochte says in his new book that Stubblefield?s inventions were not the forerunners of radio, an assertion that might seem like heresy in Murray.
Even so Stubblefield was not a failure. He did exactly what he intended all along - invent a wireless telephone system. ?Nathan apparently believed that wired telephone service wouldn?t come to rural America for a long time,? Lochte said. ?He was right.?
Stubblefield showed his wireless telephone to Murray friends and relatives as early as 1892. Marconi sent the first long-distance telegraphic radio signal three years later.
Berry Craig, Associated Press
Two stories are combined in the public?s knowledge of Stubblefield.
Stubblefield invented an acoustic telephone, which probably sounded better than the Bell phone. Once Stubblefield had established himself and was selling telephone systems as far away as Oregon and Washington, a group of doctors in Murray decided to purchase a Bell system, leaving him without a market. Undaunted, Stubblefield came out with a plan to develop a wireless telephone system, thinking if he did not have to run a wire, he could compete with the Bell system. Over the next 20 years, Stubblefield?s only focus was to develop and market a wireless telephone system.
A cousin, Vernon Stubblefield, who had taken care of Stubblefield during that last six years of his life, decided that he was going to connect Stubblefield with radio. At the same time, L.J. Hortin, a journalism professor at Murray State University, was setting up a lab to have student journalists cover events around Murray. Rainey T. Wells, the University President, and Vernon convinced Hortin that Stubblefield was indeed the inventor of radio. Thus began Hortin?s lifelong quest. Despite failed attempts to build a state park in honor of the inventor, he did coin the phrase ?Murray, Kentucky - The Birthplace of Radio,? which could be seen on Chamber of Commerce campaigns until the early 1990?s.
Murray Ledger & Times
According to legend, radio was created in Murray by Nathan B. Stubblefield in 1892. Unfortunately, this simple story has been corrupted and changed into the folklore it is today. Bob Lochte has recently written a book to clarify misconceptions about the life of Stubblefield and his involvement in the creation of a wireless telephone.
Lochte, because of his knowledge, received several calls a month from people who could not find all the information they wanted. ?It seemed to me that it would simplify things if folks had a book like this about Stubblefield.? Lochte said.
For his book, Lochte spent many hours working with Larry Albert, WQTV engineer, collecting information from the Pogue Library and reading through files and folders stored in cardboard boxes. The two took the information and constructed a replica of Stubblefield?s model in 1992.
?We didn?t say whether it was a radio or not,? Albert said. ?The book pretty much tells that.?
The Murray State News
"Kentucky Farmer Invents Wireless Telephone!" was the resounding headline in the St. Louis Post Dispatch of January 12, 1902. The full-page feature went on to describe Nathan Stubblefield?s marvelous invention. Over the next six months, Stubblefield would demonstrate his wireless telephone at public venues in Washington, Philadelphia, and New York. It could even broadcast to multiple receivers simultaneously. Entrepreneurs created the Wireless Telephone Company of America based on his device. But Stubblefield fell out with his backers and lapsed into obscurity as rapidly as his star had risen. The most famous person ever to come from Murray, Kentucky, died of starvation, alone in a dirt floor shack.
A few months later, a young journalism professor and his students breathed new life into the Stubblefield story. With the encouragement of Stubblefield?s relatives and the president of the college, they disseminated the notion that Nathan?s invention was actually the earliest radio and that Murray was thus ?the birthplace of radio.? So began the legend of Nathan Stubblefield and more than a half century of promotion and boosterism associated with it.
In meticulous detail, Murray State University professor Bob Lochte tells both stories - the facts and the folklore - about Nathan Stubblefield. The text is richly illustrated with more than 50 original photographs from the Stubblefield collections at the Pogue Library and Wrather West Kentucky Museum. As an added bonus for scholars, Lochte has reprinted all of Stubblefield?s US patents and several historically significant documents related to his life and legend.
From the Publisher
I found this also...for future refference......Bill
1970s 0613 - THE LEDGER & TIMES - 1970: June 13, 1970; Replica Of Nathan Stubblefield 's First Radio On Display At Capitol; Photo: This is an actual photo of Nathan B. Stubblefield and his wireless telephone taken in the early 1900s - EARLY RADIO - Kenneth F. Harper, Commissioner of Public Information and Jim Kincer, recently appointed Director of News and Promotional Services for the Kentucky Department of Public Information, inspect a replica of Nathan B. Stubblefield's wireless telephone. The replica is on display at the capital rotunda. Stubblefield, a native of Murray is the inventor of radio. *NBSWiTel??AFact
? 1970s 0823 - LETTER: August 23, 1970, from MSU, Dr. Hinds, to Bernard Stubblefield. *NBSWiTel??AFact
? 1970s 1001 - LETTER - 1970: October 1, 1970, from Murray State University, Murray, Kentucky 42071, to Bernard Stubblefield.
??? Mr. Bernard B. Stubblefield, P.O. Box 123, Rural Route 2, Florence, Mississippi 39073.
??? Dear Mr. Stubblefield: You will be pleased to know that your trunk and it contents now reside safely in the Stubblefield Repository at the Murray State University Library. President Sparks, himself, came over to see the trunk as it was brought in and displayed much interest in the trunk and its contents. Some pictures were taken and newspaper stories are planned. I will be sure to send you copies when the stories break the news.
??? My work on your father is progressing well and I am in hopes that I will meet my December deadline. I am compiling a list of questions that I have been unable to answer and will one day soon--meaning whenever I can get away from the University--come down to chat with you and to brief you on the progress at this stage.
??? Again I should like to thank you for allowing your father's things to bo placed in the Stubblefield Repository. Also, strictly personally I send to you my sincerest thanks for your efforts toward helping me with the book on your father. I can't say how much I appreciate your channelling inquires from other people up to me; after three years of work on your father I would be rather disturbed if some "Johnny come lately" were to throw together some slip shod and inaccurate work on your father which would create no end of problems in my research. Thanks to your efforts I am certain that will not happen.
??? I trust this letter finds you in good health and that the weather down your way continues to be fair. I'll keep in touch.
??? All good wishes, Thomas O. Morgan, Director of Radio-TV, Assistant Professor of Communications Murray State University. *NBSWiTel??AFact
Quote from Bill:
QuotePressure wave as in...magnetic...acoustic...or...? (any or all of the above)
What about flowing water? Anyone who tried dowsing knows how powerful that radiation can be. I am preparing to drive electrodes every 12" in my backyard, then compare it with underground water flow to see if there is any coincidence.
Anyone did some research how to connect them in series? Does connecting them in parallel will have any effect?
George
hello guys, ive just read through the entire thread since last night, im immmensely interested in what you guys are doing, nice 1 for the work put in.
ive come up with a number of points id like to raise:
1, definition for over unity could be:- energy taken to create, start and run(all components) i.e in the sum E(tc)
energy outputed from device in lifetime ie in the sum E(ofl)
E(tc) divided by E(ofl) = if this sum equals above 1 surely its plus unity? just a suggestion
2, if stubblefields coil windings are wrapped in cotton and placed in water, would the cotton not absorb the water and therefore still have a electrically connecting effect due to the lower insulating properties of wet cotton??
3. sound and resonances. the last couple of threads are touching on sound, my personal belief is the universe is no more than frequencies, that take on chemical combining properties at extremely high frequencies. this idea is unfounded yet, just one of mine, but i have noticed patterns, but have still to confirm it. but i would like to raise a potential of the properties of resonance. if a soundwave reflects directly off the wall, it will lose a small amount of power(amount dependant on surface density) and reflect back and combine with the next incoming soundwave. if this was tuned to the rm resonances, the amount of power multiplies, massively.
what if on the secondary windings you ran a sound signal, when tuned correctly it may resonate with the earth. i had heard in my looking about, tesla pulsed his coils at 50000hz,
there was guy who raised tuning it to earth, betweeen 0 and 15hz. i reckon this would be wrong, because in those areas of frequency, life cycles and brain waves are tied in. we wouldnt want to mess the planet up any more, by resonating a dangerous frequency. also, the lower the frequency generated, the more power it takes to generate.
im not sure if this is of any help, but i felt i had better mention the ideas rattling around my dusty head, :)
take care guys, keep it up, im looking to go get rods tomorrow, and look into this
Dan
"I'd rather fail by being true to my conscience than make a popular success by being false!"
extra point, in high frequency rf electronics(microwave), they use passive electronics, im not sure if this is the right term, but it has no electrical components, only reaction between different metals, reflected in tuning screws, and gaps in the metalwork, this is tuned to resonate to required bandwidth. appeciably in this system, th rf needs to be generated. but they do use different metals, copper and silver, and resonances.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY1eyLEo8_A
or maybe run walter lewins water battery back into the secondary coil? its naturally pulsed and regulated??
just a idea
Quote from: hansvonlieven on November 20, 2007, 01:52:45 PMThe electrodes DO know which is, as you call it, primary or secondary in series. Remember we have two dissimilar metals, say copper and zink. copper to copper and zink to zink is parallel, copper to zink copper to zink is series with the first zink and the last copper being the terminals.
but if we have: [z]-[c]-[z]-[c] Don't we end up with one big [z]-----[c] and a short [c]-[z] sitting in the center with it's wires shorted? How do the middle 2 know they are part of a series of batteries?
Does the north south placement fix this problem?
It has nothing to do with north south. All galvanic batteries work like this whether they share a common electrolyte or not
Hans von Lieven
Edit call it + and - instead of copper and zink and you see perhaps what I am talking about
How about this scenario:
Wind coils like Stubblefield did. with third exciting coil on top. Connect leads of that third coil to regular pair of electrodes driven into ground to power it up. Test voltage at primary iron and secondary copper coils to see if we get anything. If there is voltage, will connecting them into series create also the same problem we have now with electrodes in the ground?
George
No not really george sorry, umm, we want to step up not down.. now since this primary is contained within the secondary it could be confusing if your use to seeing say 200 turns of gauge 18 magnet wire with say, 10 turns of gauge 12 on top of the 200 turn coil but same concept just different coil geometry. In one of the Tesla coils the patent clearly states that it was a flat would spiral coil single layer and we know what the secondary looks like(the tower part) so it would be safe to say some transformers secondaries can partially or completely contain their (primary) exciter coil. Hope that helps, im soldering my voltage multipler circut now and hope to try that out tomorrow.
Joe
HAPPY Thanksgiving Everyone,
If your not an american which i know a bunch of you arent, I would feel obliged if you indulged in at least one drink today and well if theres turkey thats just a bonus. ;D ;D ;D As well i seriously thought about opening this thread this morning:
" Over unity finally achieved from turkey beak grindings mixed with flour in roster bag" Apparently by spreading the turkey beak shavings with flower in your roasting bag within 2 hrs after starting your turkey will start producing excess heat which at this point can be used for cold fusion. Thank you.
On second thought ... What the hey
On a real note i finished my voltage doubling circuit and hopefully get to try it out later.
Happpy Thanksgiving to all who celebrate it.
Localjoe:
Good luck with your circuit. If it works, let me know I would like to try to replicate it. It is a little cold here today, but not that bad. I was considering getting some glavanized nails and trying something else with my tree. Since we think, so far, that more surface area is good for voltage and amps, what about nailing a pattern of about 10 nails into my tree and then wire wrapping them together like on a breadboard so they act as 1 larger nail. I will then check the potential between the wire wrap and my carbon rod. This would do a lot less damage to the tree as opposed to one large spike.
I now have a bunch of various sized caps slavaged from several boards I was saving for just such an occasion. I hope to experiment with them soon as well. I will drink at least one beer today and toast all of us that are seeking to explore this wonderful area of study. Cheers.
Bill
Hey Bill heres a pic of the diagram i used and the webpage was http://www.coolcircuit.com/circuit/voltage/ (http://www.coolcircuit.com/circuit/voltage/) had some cool stuff i used some black diodes that were 1n4001 similar to 1n914 i think different companies say different names for the same thing and 1n4003 should be fine to i have a bunch of them im only using the same kind of diode with itself not mixing them. I know that any of those three would be fine to use.
Salute
Joe
local joe, can u apply this circuit in parrallel to double current?
Possibly Marga ,
I think more diodes would be involved to prevent leakage of the caps into each other on the v out side, not sure tho.
Joe
localjoe, the voltage doubler circuit will only work for AC, but since that's part of what we are trying to capture it could work for any ac currents in the tree.
Happy Thanksgiving fellas,
I went out to have a drink, even though it is only mid day here, just to be with you " In SPIRIT " :-)
Still catching up on my reading and trying to work out just what we got ourselves into.
Greetings
Hans von Lieven
Quote from: hansvonlieven on November 22, 2007, 09:20:50 PM
Happy Thanksgiving fellas,
I went out to have a drink, even though it is only mid day here, just to be with you " In SPIRIT " :-)
Still catching up on my reading and trying to work out just what we got ourselves into.
Greetings
Hans von Lieven
What are you dumb American talking about shit giving fest? Who gives a shit Dumb ass?
I don't remember asking you for your opinion about me little boy Hans. If you think I need your permission to talk with people here then you really have no clue about the world.
Do not bother me with your dumb insults Hans Von Leberwurst.
Mind your own fucking business ok?
@Localjoe:
Here is a link to a site that has a schematic for a dc to dc voltage doubler working with volts as low as .7.
http://www.reuk.co.uk/DC-Voltage-Multiplier-Circuit-Plans.htm (http://www.reuk.co.uk/DC-Voltage-Multiplier-Circuit-Plans.htm) It uses an ic chip (MAX 756) but does not look too hard to build.
@ Gaby:
Who all were you including in your "dumb American" comment? That is an uncalled for statement and has no place here. If you don't like or recognize Thanksgiving wherever you are, that's fine, but some of us AMERICANS do not like to have our holidays trashed. Just a word of friendly advice.
Bill
Cool bill gotta love the minty boost i thought the other would be simple to try outside, i plan to tomorrow if the weather clears up, it says the circuit can be used for pulsed dc or ac so who knows, worth a shot since i have this one built . If you wanna do the dc to dc one that would be cool to see in comparison.
Gaby ... Hans was replying to ME a , stupid American who apparently has figured out how to type , and do other assorted complicated things like hit my easy button repeatedly when thinking about your mindless comments. You should get one, and next time you decide to speak or post, just hit the button instead! It will save the battery life in mine and I'm sure you will feel the same satisfaction as this happy customer.
Thanks
Joe
Quote from: gaby de wilde on November 23, 2007, 01:39:41 AM
Quote from: hansvonlieven on November 22, 2007, 09:20:50 PM
Happy Thanksgiving fellas,
I went out to have a drink, even though it is only mid day here, just to be with you " In SPIRIT " :-)
Still catching up on my reading and trying to work out just what we got ourselves into.
Greetings
Hans von Lieven
What are you dumb American talking about shit giving fest? Who gives a shit Dumb ass?
I don't remember asking you for your opinion about me little boy Hans. If you think I need your permission to talk with people here then you really have no clue about the world.
Do not bother me with your dumb insults Hans Von Leberwurst.
Mind your own fucking business ok?
Can someone please tell me how that came about?
All I did was wish my friends well, or is that illegal in Holland??
Hans von Lieven
Outrageous, right? What is getting into people now days? :o :o ??? ???
.. Defiantly not in Amsterdam I heard folks there are a bit calmer and enjoy the food.
And well when they write comments like "I mean spiritually we are a bunch of cave men?"
Those words re-instill my fear society is taking a dive.
@ Hans:
I looked back over the last several posts before I posted my earlier reply and, I have no idea what the hell happened there. Maybe a bad beer or two in Holland "Leads Out" this type of behavior. Who knows? Oh, I drank more than a few to my friends here on this site today. Cheers.
Bill
I am quite puzzled Bill,
I have said nothing about the guy here or elsewhere, I have no idea why he is attacking me.
Anyway, I had a couple of beers while thinking of you fellows :-)
Happy Holiday
Hans
QuoteCan someone please tell me how that came about?
I will explain exactly what this is about. I use to talk about what ever I liked on the internet. But apparently some people didn't like seeing this. I have tried to ignore it but wankers invade my discussion to insult my intellect. The result of trying to ignore it was more and more remarks. This is not the answer.
Together you have convinced me to think first before I even dare to take part in a public discussion. First I have to think really really hard!! I have to consider if it's worth getting bullshitted over posting something I enjoy thinking about.
Is it worth reading your crap vomited onto my hobby. But yes, the history of gravity powered walking devices was worth asking Lawrence a second question about this with all the public harassment that would bring.
Now I get email notification so that I can read I am a dumb ass??
I cant be allowed to talk about gravity powered devices in the lee tseung topic without you behaving like a 12 year old. Meanwhile you talk about thanksgiving in the earth battery topic?
No I don't think things work like that at all Hans little boy. Last time I asked Lawrence something you also whined about it? What is that for crap ah?
One more time for the extra stubborn children:
If you are
not going to reply to anything I wrote then you should
not quote me, and you should
not even think about reviewing my personality under my posting.
Quote from: hansvonlieven on November 22, 2007, 09:25:12 PM
Quote from: ltseung888 on November 22, 2007, 08:12:54 PM
Quote from: gaby de wilde on November 22, 2007, 07:50:23 PM
Lawrence,
is there anything important in this valuable speech from shakylee?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sokWZc8R-co
YouTube - æÅ"¨ç‰›æµÂ馬_20070831 寶泰話三åÅ"‹
He was talking about the story of the inventions of the Wooden Cow and the Floating Horse. According to the story, real cows and horses got frightened when crossing narrow bridges. Much of the food for the soldiers were lost and fell to the river.
The inventions of the Wooden Cow and Floating Horse came as a result of such needs. One Wooden Cow could carry food for a soldier for a year. One Floating Horse could carry food for a soldier for 4 years. One speculation of the Wooden Cow was a hand-push Cart with one wheel in front.
*** Other speculations include self-propelling systems. ***
Some people will believe anything! Get real, Godzilla is a myth!
Hans von Lieven
wanker
Quote from: Localjoe on November 23, 2007, 02:27:04 AM...a , stupid American who apparently has figured out how to type , and do other assorted complicated things like hit my easy button repeatedly when thinking about your mindless comments....
Yes, changing the subject to Hans lack of sanity was not very nice. It was a rather nasty thing to do.
I just didn't feel any love reading his posting. You know what I mean?
There was like nothing even remotely related to the text in the reply but jet it was obnoxiously quoting the post right above it using a gigantic font. Then he had something to say about
me! So I come here down to the earth batteries and turkey topics to create a complete and accurate description of the person so that others may use the same.
I feel this is exactly what was asked from me? Is it not?
Advertise his insanity on the Internet as the replacement of his discussion so that it's available for the world to read.
what good fun ::)
@ Gaby
@ Hans
as posted in another topic:
offensive remarks are uncalled for in any topic of this forum.
one can say things in a civilised manner. we are all trying to achieve a common goal: OU !
and as a wonderful french proverb says: "du choque des id?es, jaillit la lumi?re"
There was nothing offensive in what I said, and Gaby, you don't have to pose as eden to make it look as though you have some support fot YOUR offensive behaviour!
Hans von Lieven
As far as this earth battery thread I started, Gaby id applicate it if you left our thread and posted on others, we haven't had this kinda problem in this thread before and i don't wanna get cranky. What happens when computer network engineers get cranky please tell me. Or put two and two together if you like having a working computer . Understand that you have been given a warning here and asked to stop once, Please think about this carefully, because I really enjoy my topic here, as well as others and we've had great contributions from everyone, except yourself only negative poster here.... So Stop or well your pc might magiclly loose the capacity to browse the net.
Joe
Yeah I'm sorry I get pissed off when insulted. I guess now you know about my low tolerance for off topic fish slap clap trap. I promise next time you insult me I will try even harder to ignore it.
huhuhu
Ok I'll give ya that one, but unless your going to replicate something here theres really no reason for you to post any more in this topic regardless of how you feel about our topic. Id say thats fair enough.
Joe
@ Everyone:
Today, I obtained some hot dipped (zinc coated) nails for my tree trunk experiment. While at the hardware store I found some 12" long zinc coated spikes! (Basically look like huge nails) They were less than $1 USD ea. I am not going to use the spikes on the tree but will play with them in the ground maybe see if I can't get this series thing to work.
I am going to use about 5 nails or so, driven part way into the tree near its base. I am going to wrap them with wire to tie them in and check potential between them and the carbon rod. I should also check between the nails and a zinc spike just to prove, if there is any voltage, that it is not galvanic, or at least not galvanic alone. If I get anything worth looking at I will post another video.
@Localjoe:
How is your power amp circuit working? I am very interested to hear about it. I'm sure it is much colder where you are than here in Kentucky. (about 35 f now.) Best of luck.
Bill
@bill
Well i tried it with some batteries just for the fun of it and the batteries voltage was 2.7 v 2 d'cells drained a lil, the output side yeilded 3.09 v so id did something .3 volts . I'm About to go outside with it now so i'll tell ya how it goes with that. I'm just trying it on the rods if i have time I'll nail something in the tree...
Steel wire may be more important here than we thought. Im going to explain something later a little off topic about a nemodium mag exp with a screw and some stray effects. But the wire and contact it makes with the magnet is what will co inside with our experiments here.
Joe :)
G'day all OK fellows, here is the next installment.
Stubblefield continued.
The discovery that there was radioactivity involved in Stubblefield?s earth batteries puts an entirely different complexion on the matter.
My attention was drawn to William BARBAT ?s Self-Sustaining Electrical Generator US Patent Application # 2007/0007844
In it Barbat says:
This disclosure introduces a technical field in which practical electrical energy is created in accordance with the overlooked exception to the energy-conservation rule that Herman von Helmholtz described in his 1847 doctrine on energy conservation: "If . . . bodies possess forces which depend upon time and velocity, or which act in directions other than lines which unite each pair of material points, . . . then combinations of such bodies are possible in which force may be either lost or gained ad infinitum." A transverse inductive force qualifies for Helmholtz's ad infinitum rule, but this force is not sufficient of itself to cause a greater energy output than input when applied to electrons of normal mass due to their unique charge-to-mass ratio. However, the increased acceleration of conduction electrons of less-than-normal inertial mass, as occurs in photoconductors, doped semiconductors, and superconductors, is proportional to the normal electron mass divided by the low electron mass, and the magnification of harnessable inductive energy is proportional to the greater relative acceleration, squared.
And further:
Magnification of magnetic force and energy was demonstrated by E. Leimer (1915) in the coil of a speaker phone and in the coil of a galvanometer when he irradiated a radio antenna-wire with radium. A 10-milligram, linear radium source produced a measured 2.6-fold increase in electrical current in the antenna-wire in comparing inaudible radio reception without radium to audible reception with radium.
He then cites
The same year that the English translation of Leimer's paper appeared in Scientific American, 16-year old Alfred M. Hubbard of Seattle, Wash., reportedly invented a fuelless generator, which he later admitted employed radium. Applicant interprets this as implying that Leimer's energy-magnification was utilized by Hubbard with feedback to make it self-sustaining.
And further
Lester J. Hendershot of Pittsburgh, Pa., reportedly demonstrated a fuelless generator in 1928 that was claimed by Hubbard to be a copy of his own device
Further down:
U.S. Pat. No. 4,835,433 to Brown superficially resembles the drawing of Hubbard's device. Brown's device appears to have the same number and essentially the same general arrangement of wire coils as Hubbard's generator, as nearly as can be understood from the newspaper articles depicting that device. Apparently no information concerning either the Hubbard or Hendershot devices was considered during prosecution of the '433 patent. Brown discusses the conversion of energy of radioactive decay products, principally alpha emissions, to electrical energy by amplifying electrical oscillations in a high-Q L-C circuit irradiated by radioactive materials. "During the absorption process, each alpha particle will collide with one or more atoms in the conductor knocking electrons from their orbits and imparting some kinetic energy to the electrons in the conductor thereby increasing its conductivity."
These are the relevant passages in Barbat?s patent application as far as our current enquiry is concerned.
Since everything that Barbat argues is based on a statement by Helmholtz in his groundbreaking paper ?Ueber die Erhaltung der Kraft? (On the Conservation of Force) I reasoned that the best place to start was right there. Having read the paper in the original German many years ago I needed to refresh my memory, especially since I could not remember any exception to the conservation of energy rule.
No wonder I could not remember it. It is an obscure comment by Helmholtz which he later retracted.
This is an English translation of the passage with a comment by Roberto Torretti in his book ?The Philosophy of Physics? of which this is a photocopy.
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.keelytech.com%2Foverunity%2Fhelmholtzquote.jpg&hash=8696960886e78155a9bfeb7d44e8a5d398f62557)
If Helmholtz had solid reasons, perhaps based on some observation of his, for making this statement we don?t know about it. Be that as it may, it appears that this statement formed the basis of research for a number of people, including Keely, Stubblefield, Hubbard, Leimer, Brown and now Barbat. There is no evidence I am aware of that Tesla used this as well, though he must have been aware of it since he worked with Stubblefield.
I have not been able so far to locate Leimer?s work so I will treat his research as read for the time being.
In my view these people interpreted Helmholtz in this way:
If a flow of force is created by a primary system that creates a flow of force in a secondary system by resonance, the output in the secondary system can be magnified by levelling a flow of force of a different character and velocity perpendicular to it. The resultant output in the secondary system is then larger than the input from both flows.
This is a big statement for it describes perpetual motion.
Or, perhaps more generally: The interaction of the two antagonistic flows creates a beat frequency which heterodynes with a larger field of unknown character and absorbs energy from it by resonance.
Keely did it with pressure waves, Brown, Stubblefield, Hubbard and Leimer used radioactivity and Barbat uses light, which he gets to interact with his secondary coil by coating the coil with cuprous oxide, turning it effectively into a solar cell.
Enough for now, there is more research to be done, but this is the way it looks to me at this stage of the proceedings. Feel free to comment
Hans von Lieven
@ Hans:
Excellent work. I need to back and re-read it once I post these photos of today's efforts. Here are two photos of the tree array attempt using zinc coated nails and some stranded wire (16 ga.) stripped at the midpoints for wrapping around each nail. The ends were connected together and a jumper attached. Results as follows:
7 nail array (- side) Carbon rod in the ground (+ side)
1.25 vdc
1.9 vac
.19 mA
7 nail array 12" long zinc coated spike in ground about 6" deep.
.1 vdc (This was to show some voltage of the same metals)
12" long zic coated spike in ground 6" deep on n/s meridian (-) Carbon rod (+)
1.13 vdc
1.7 vac
2.12 mA (Note, this is the highest amp reading to date )
It was freezing out there. I will leave the nails in the tree and the zinc in the ground and see if the potential increases over time.
@ Localjoe:
Interesting that you amplified dc voltage with that. That gives me hope.
Bill
I was able to stay out for less that 10 mins... Brutal weather. anyways the circuit didnt work that well i think because i used different size caps didnt have 2 of the same as well i used ones in the 330uf to 550uf range and for the effect i think i need to try way smaller caps. It got up to .8 i arc'ed the caps to have a little fun then i gave into the cold. More tomorrorw
(Quote from Hans) "If a flow of force is created by a primary system that creates a flow of force in a secondary system by resonance, the output in the secondary system can be magnified by levelling a flow of force of a different character and velocity perpendicular to it. The resultant output in the secondary system is then larger than the input from both flows.
This is a big statement for it describes perpetual motion."
Yes, it does. Fantastic you finding this information for us, thanks. What I don't understand, as you pointed out to me earlier, this speaks of primary and secondary systems such as in a coil arrangement and, as you said vdc does not benefit from that without the pulse being present. I did some research on line for my own continuing education and, when looking for dc voltage amplifier circuits...all of them employ ic's that, yes, that's right, provide pulses! So, my understanding now is that you can't use coils to amplify dc without it being pulsed, just like you stated. In view of that, how does the above make any sense? What did they know then that we, or at least me, don't/doesn't know now?
I also did some research on batteries in my textbooks on electronics and, once again , you were correct. (I never doubted you, I just wanted to learn this stuff for myself) ALL modern car batteries are made from 1.5 vdc cells in series, which produce 12 vdc. What I can't seem to find is, where do the amps come from? I mean, a regular car battery has over 60 amps available. (not including "cranking" amps which are much higher numbers) I am getting over 1.6 vdc from one of my earth battery setups and still have not resolved the series hookup yet but, even when I do, how can I get the current up to par with car bats.? I still feel this is somehow related to electrode surface area and I will invest in the materials required to prove/disprove this if I feel it has a decent chance of working.
In my above earlier post with today's results you can see that the amps were way up just using a large zinc spike in the ground with my carbon rod, but the vdc was also down a bit. I guess I can try and array of multiple zinc spikes tied together and check the potential with the carbon rod then. If you can think of any way to attempt to boost the volts and/or the amps here, please let me know. Thanks again for all of your excellent research.
Bill
G'day Bill,
A galvanic cell produces about 1.5 V DC, if you want more Volt you have to have more cells. If you want to jack up the amperage you need larger cells, IE larger plates of dissimilar metals.
You are right, where does the AC or pulsed DC come from to create the secondary system.
This is at the moment still a puzzle for me, as I believe I mentioned in an earlier post.
I am far from being able to put a coherent analysis of the system together, I am just reporting what I find in the hope this will map out my next moves :-)
Hans von Lieven
Something I neglected to mention on my tree array data was the distance from the array to the carbon rod. I just now went out and measured it (it is 25 degrees F) and it's 8.5 feet. 1.25 vdc is not bad considering the guys with the "tree" patent application were getting about half that. How could this possible be galvanic when my nails were in wood, granted, a living tree with some moisture inside, but the other end of the circuit was 8.5 feet away??? This is very puzzling to me. I encourage everyone out there to try it to see what they obtain.
Bill
can i ask wat the zinc coated screws are, ie the base metal that the zincs coated on woulkd this have an effect on any properties available?
regards
guys
keep it up
@ Marga dan:
I am using zinc (hot dipped) nails and also spikes. I am not sure what the base metal is although I suspect it is a low grade steel of some kind. Probably the same with screws, although I am just guessing based on the cost.
Today's test results:
7 zinc nail array on the tree (-) jumped to a 12" zinc spike in the ground 12' away (-) to the carbon rod (+)
1.17 vdc
1.8 vac
2.6 mA
I think I finally figued out the problem with my series tests. I will attempt more on that tomorrow. My 30 leds have not arrived yet but by the time they get here, I want to have the power up enough to light them. I know, not an easy thing to do. We will see.
Bill (Reporting from Ice Station Zebra)
G'day Bill,
It'll be really interesting to see what happens to the zinc. By rights is should get consumed in the galvanic action.
What fascinates me more, you report 1.8 V AC! Where the f*ck are those oscillations coming from?
If it was just the galvanic action you should get pure DC.
Keep in touch
Hans
@ Hans:
The ac had me confused also and it still does. I have read up to 2.8 vac in some configurations. But, I read in my electronics text and also spoke to my father, who worked at Bell Labs in Murry Hill N.J. for 16 years (birthplace of the solar cell and transistor) they both said that meters will read ac even if it is not really there. It is a quirk with the way meters, both analog and digital, are set up. Stefan said I should use a scope, which I do not have, to see what is really what. So, as of right now, I don't really know. I am looking around to see if any of my friends have a scope to use for this. So far, no luck.
According to the work by the Russians on telluric currents, they said the freq. should be between 1 to 5 Hz.....very low freq. Localjoe tested with some type of meter and got about 40 to 45 Hz. If there is an ac component to this we should be able to step it up with the coils but, I have no real idea of what is really going on at this point. I will investigate further.
Bill
Sorry, I meant to include in my previous post the results of an experiment my father told me to do. I took a AA battery and checked the voltage:
1.55vdc
2.7vac!!
It showed ac voltage on a dc cell. This leads me to believe that the meter quirk idea is correct. But, Localjoe tested the freq. with a different type of meter and showed the frequency so I am not sure. The readings above are very, very close to what I am getting out in the garden with my electrodes.
Hans:
Try testing a battery for ac and see what you get? I need to purchase a portable scope...i could use it for the test, and return it... ha ha.
Bill
Well last night I promised an explanation on my steel wire comments and magnets. Please note none of this is speculation, I'm commenting my findings from exp.
If you haven't seen a video of a homo polar motor it's just a simple screw with disc nefb mag at the bottom hanging from the battery positive and then driven by a wire connected to the negative and brushing on the outside of the magnet. spins upwards of 3000 rpm. try with copper wire first then try with steel... steel works much better and displays a blueish corona around the magnet. Cool I said... how it applies, wrap say 4 turns of this steel insulated wire around a 40 turn copper coil of whatever you have handy, magnet wire preferable. then touch the two ends as you would have before to - on battery and to the outside of the magnet. connect your meter to the leads of the copper coil and watch the voltage rise proportonally with the speed. this still worked on one half dead nicad that only was reading .8 v the voltage on my meter after about 30 sec was upwards of 6 to 9 volts and kept going but the magnet spun off... This didn't work with copper wire ??? ???. If the voltage and current were getting now are enough to make this little thing start spinning it should increase its speed until... infinitum or until another force interacts to slow it down eg friction or others things at play. Figured id share this idea with you folks.
Joe
Localjoe:
This is very interesting. Stubblefield (as you already know) used copper coils with STEEL wire! Could you please make a rough sketch of this arrangement for me? I think I follow your instructions but I can't quite picture it. I have enough junk materials laying about to give it a try, both inside...and out. I am not sure how to connect the primary and secondary wires together. (I can be a little slow at times) The faster it runs, the more volts? I wonder if it could put out enough volts to "charge" the battery then? And, if hooked up to our earth battery.....who knows?????
Nothing fancy, just a crude sketch with labels for where the wires go and I will do this. Thanks.
Bill
I did this Real quick ,so don't mind the extreme artistic expertise ;D
Localjoe:
Well, that's either the homopolar motor coil set up you talked about, or a naked blonde sunbathing on a beach. (that's the beer typing) Seriously, thanks. You should see my drawings...actually, I can draw but I am limited to using my mouse on ms paint...it's not pretty.
So, do you over lap the primary to the secondary then? It appears from your drawing that you do. I see the ends of the secondary attached to nothing...am I correct? If this works man.......we can not only run motors but make electricty!!!! Well, not make it but, tap it.
What kind of steel wire did you use? I have a lot of wire but none of it is steel. Are we talking coat hanger here? I can improvise if needed. Or, like fence wire? I can get that. Sorry for all of the questions but remember, I have been out of school a lot longer than you........ ha ha.
Bill
@Bill ,
The steel wire is from a power supply i cut apart its insulated stranded and looks similar to any stranded copper and i just wrap 4 turns of it around the copper coil that was 40 turns, the end of the copper is where i put the meter. And yea that was a paint rendition ... seems to be the quickest thing to click on to draw with ya know...
Joe
The aero-planes were just a cool find ,figured you'd enjoy :o Hold the phone those must be ufo's
Localjoe:
Thanks for the info. I get it now. I printed out your drawing and am looking around for "ingredients".
Here is, I hope, an inlarged pic of the one you just posted. What the heck is that? That is not the Avro, which is the only "saucer" I am aware of that the airforce admitted to working on. Those are F-86 fighters on either side which makes this pic from around early to mid 1950's. Also, from the terrain, that looks like Edwards AFB in CA. Thanks for posting it.
Bill
I wish i knew what either of them were ... the one in the back is huge, amazing what they had then and where the public should be now... errrrr. We'll show em yet with our rods and wires...
hey bill
if you need a scope go to a large electrical suppliers in your area and they will loan to you.
probably top of line portable fluke or something fancy
maybee they want a deposit but they all lend stuff like that.
i am interested to see the wave from your experiment.
@ rice:
Thanks!! That's a great suggestion. We have several places like that here but I didn't know they might do that. I will look into that on Monday. Of course, then I will have to learn how to use a scope, but maybe they could give me a crash course. I learn fast I just don't remember anything. Thanks again.
Bill
G'day Bill,
Have you considered using your computer as a scope. There are some excellent free programmes available, I have several and I can send you the links if you want. Perhaps one of the electronics guys here will design a probe for you that plugs into the sound card so you can measure the things you want.
Hans von Lieven
@ Hans:
Thanks!!! That would be great. I didn't know those programs existed. Yes, please send me the links and I will check into what I need for a probe. If anyone on here knows anything about this, let me know.
Right now, I am working on Localjoe's homopolar motor/coil arrangement. The motor works as advertised...spins very fast. I am making the coils right now to see about the voltage boost. If it works inside, I will try it outside on my cell.
Thanks again Hans.
Bill
G'day Bill
Try this one, the demo version is fully functional but limits you to 15 sec after each start. To remove this limitation is expensive (500 bucks)
15 sec should be enough though. I have others but this one is the king!
http://www.hitsquad.com/smm/programs/OscilloMeter/
Hans
Hans:
Thank you very much. I will try it.
Bill
Hans i was going to try myself but someone told me i would fry a soundcard with anything more than half a volt, any ideas?
That's why I suggested to talk to the electronics guys about a suitable probe that prevents this.
Hans
I love you guys..... I didn't realize you could get a probe to protect the pc i thought it was just like a trivial thing that you could use for less than half a volt or something... gotta love it I feel stupid, being humbled at least once once a day seems to encourage mental growth, I like it, and thanks for not being shy Hans. Had you not said what you did i wouldn't have clicked for me ;D
Joe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzUMPklZG3I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzUMPklZG3I)
Above is a link to a video I just put up on my simple homopolar motor replication. The lighting is poor as it is raining here today and I am not able to test anything outside. The video is nothing new I just felt like replicating the simple one before moving on to Joe's coil configuration.
@Localjoe:
I am still working on the coil set up that you posted. I think I can use one of my guitar strings for the steel wire, it should work. Let me know if you find out anything on the probe designs. I agree that this forum is a wonderful place for the exchange of information. With the exception of only one or two, I have found everyone else to be very helpful and knowledgeable. I just hope your coil circuit does not "Lead Out" more energy than we can handle. Ha ha.
@Hans:
I downloaded that software from the Russian guy. Looks like a very nice, detailed program. Thanks. It is going to take me a while to learn and understand it but, that's what rainy days are for....reading.
Bill
G'day again guys.
Below is a picture of a motor built by Stubblefield that he ran of his earth batteries. Has anyone here seen a motor of a similar design?
Hans von Lieven
@Bill
What ive found is if you can get the insulated flimsy steel wire and since its stranded just pry away a single strand at the end where you have it insulated then use that to brush the motor it works way better and you see the effect more pronounced. Just a tip. :)
Joe
if you use sound card or other input on computer use isolation transformer inline. small one is ok and cheap too
it is 1 to 1 should work if it is ac you are getting from ground
An interesting thing that I discovered by building the homopolar motor as seen in my above posted video. The screw with the two neo mags on it as seen in the video no longer turns. I assembled another unit and it worked fine. then, I went back and tried it again...it also no longer worked. Does this mean that the mags magnetize the screw after a time rendering it non workable? Has anyone else experienced this? I now made a third assembly and I will see if it too quits working after a time.
Great photo Hans, I enlarged the photo and I can't see exactly what the heck sort of motor that might be. I am puzzled by the long shaft and the apparatus at the top of the structure. Very interesting.
Bill
Yes bill i did encounter that and my only recourse was to use different metals until i found one that didnt saturate immedatly as well it helps to pulse it slowly like 3 sec on 2 off 3 on 2 off and you will see it revving up like a swing a little energy timed right will increase speed constantly with no extra input , like the swing same energy put in but you keep going higher....
@ Localjoe:
What do you mean by "saturate"? I thought is was magnetization but, when tested, the screws were not magnetized. I swapped out the magnets and it worked again. What possible change could take place in the magnets (neos) that would make this work one minute....and ten minutes later no longer work? They are still very strong as magnets but no longer work for this motor. Very strange. I even tried to reverse the polarity for reverse rotation and....nothing. I swapped bats and....nothing. I swapped mags and...it worked again....for a time. Maybe it does not matter but I would like to understand what was happening here. If your coil arrangement works, we want it to continue to work. This research is like pealing an onion, one layer gone, many more exposed.
Bill
@ Localjoe:
I just wanted to report that I tried my original neos on my original screw (about 6 hours later) and it worked just fine! What is going on here? I don't want to get side tracked but, this could be important if we are able to use coils to up our voltage on the earth bats. What change took place temporarily in the neos? Why did they reset?
I tried what you said and had only one strand, about a .015 dia. wire touching the mag and it really took off! In the video I was getting what I considered to be very high speed. I had to balance the rig so I could go that high. Well, with just the little wire strand it kept accelerating until all hell broke loose. The screw shot across the room and was spinning on the carpet in the other room. This is so very interesting to me. Let me know what you think.
Bill
@bill certain metals after a time saturate when in contact with a magnetic feild. Theres a saturation table somewhere, i'll find it for you.
Usually if you flip the polarity of the battery it'll do it i think theres a possibility that the battery saturates too because while using something else to hold it up i didnt experience quick saturation.
For example stack a few encyclopedias about foot or so apart, put a piece of glass, plexi, plastic whatever you can find and put one of the neo magnets on top of it so the attracting side will stabilize the skrewmagnet, at that point we can stand the thing upright and not up side down. you could put a steel mouse ball or washer upright to hold the skrew thing in the stabilizing feild beter, Now you would apply voltage at the top metal peice whether it be a ball or nut and at the side of the magnet, either polarity should work, its the concept of appliying electricity to a certin point in a magnet or magnetic conductor and the magnet wants to spin to attract. Another cool example i cant figure out was with an aluminum mixing bowl, of you connect a clip lead off of a 12 v dewalt battery or whatever ya got handy from negative to the bowl and the tap the positive terminal down jsut for a sec a sparck flys but the magnet also flys toward this, as well with water involed same thing still happens and if you short the battery to the al it lights up with a small plasma where the + wire is touching the bowl in the water. Those are my findings in the past year with neo magnets. And call me crazy but the only way i can describe what happens when it goes outa control is it seems like its getting swept up its own vortex.. i think this thing creates a pretty wild rotating magnetic feild...
http://www.ladyada.net/library/equipt/diyaudioprobe.html (http://www.ladyada.net/library/equipt/diyaudioprobe.html)
Above is a link to instructions for making a soundcard scope probe that protects the soundcard. I don't know if it is any good or not but looks pretty easy to make.
@Localjoe:
Great idea on the homopolar motor table design. I will give that a try.
Bill
@Bill
Thanks so much for the scope probe diagram i had been looking for a day or so now for one with no luck this will make this easy to use with my laptop im pumped! Thanks again, and the motor design with table stabilizer works real well , that method is what has given me the best results thus far, and highest speed, i didn't want you to think it was some crazy idea that might work. ;D
Joe
@ Localjoe:
No, I didn't think it was a crazy idea Joe. A crazy idea is to put 2 rods in the ground and expect to get electricity!!! Now that's a crazy idea....but it works. I like how you seperated the battery from the direct magnet contact with your design.
As I said about the probe, I have no idea if this guy that designed it knows what he is doing. (Just found it by surfing) It might pay to search on the net a little more and if we see similar designs then, probably ok. I wish I knew more about electronics...which is why I am reading as much as I can. I am more of a hands on type of learner. Kind of like...wow, don't touch that big capacitor, it will knock you on your ass. I know this because I did it....very good lesson. Ha ha. Still raining here.
Bill
G?day all,
As sometimes happens in research fortuitous co-incidences happen that help a great deal. In this case it is a new thread opened up by Stefan http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,844.0/topicseen.html entitled: Amazing nuclear power converter via oscillating tank circuits !
This is a fascinating circuit in that it describes the Stubblefield earth battery the way I understand it now. In fact, other than irradiating the secondary coil with U 238 from the inside, as opposed to Stubblefield who irradiated the secondary from outside with pitchblende, the idea is exactly the same.
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.keelytech.com%2Foverunity%2Fradioactive.jpg&hash=5f7d48496809cef79f45d6495dac227a00124855)
This fits in also with Barbat?s patent. Perhaps we are onto something here, time will tell.
Thanks Stefan.
Here is the original photo with descriptions of the device in question.
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.keelytech.com%2Foverunity%2Fradioactive1.jpg&hash=8dd79de3ddb0640777aa6e74fd744082931561db)
Hans von Lieven
Hans:
Great stuff!!! I downloaded one photo and blew it up (no punn intended) and it appears the uranium is encased in a sealed glass tube of somekind. I am not up on nuclear physics but does glass block the radiation? If it does (to make it safe) then how does the radioactivity influence the circuit? We have many things in our homes that are radioactive, to a point. Americium, in a small amount, is used in our smoke detectors. I wonder if enough of that would work in a replication of the design you posted? I love how this research leads to these type of coincidences as you mentioned. Probably just the tip of the iceberg. Thanks.
Bill
I have been thinking of just that Bill, Americium may be the ticket here. and no, glass does not block radiation, it's just a convenient container and insulates the metal from the coils electrically.
Hans
Hans:
Thanks for the info on the glass, I didn't think it did either but, I was not sure. The reason I know a little about Americium is from a book I read entitled "The Radioactive Boy Scout". This was a true story about a very smart kid going for his Eagle Scout rating. He decided to make a nuclear reactor for his project. Long story short, he obtained 100 smoke detectors in a sale from a store going out of business and rigged up a block of lead with a grove cut into it and put his Americium lump ( he managed to melt it together) and bombarded some pitchblend with the resulting focused rays. He did this at his grandmother's house where he was staying for the summer. He left this experiment in the shed behind the house and all but forgot about it. Well, and, as I said, I am not a nuclear physics person, but after a few weeks, this somehow made plutonium in a very rich state. It set off alarms of those that monitor such things (probably a satelite?) and they had to evacuate the entire neighborhood during the cleanup. It seems his method was very efficient, much more than he knew. He did not get his merit badge. I might be wrong about the plutonium but, it made something so highly radioactive that it was picked up by detectors many miles away. (He was in NY state.) This is a great book and I can find the author if you would like.
Lead is a good shield for radioactivity is it not? Could one make a device and use lead as a shield? The apparatus in the picture was great except, how radioactive was it? Maybe only a small amount? Stubblefield died of starvation not cancer or radiation poisoning so a little bit of this stuff can't be that bad. Does Homeland Security monitor this site? (Too late to ask now, ha ha)
Bill
I just inform you that I am success with Tesla's greatest work 'wheelwork of nature' and 'cosmic ray energy'.
You can found my last thoughts on my page (in bottom part):
http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/02.html (http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/02.html)
It is real source of energy!
For now it is just embryo, and only first step, but I think it is step to right direction.
I think Branko's post was spam. I have seen the same message in like three other topics, verbatum. I went to the site and didn't see anything I would consider useful. but, that is just my humble opinion.
Bill
No, it is not spam. It is my life work with Nikola Tesla experiments. Yes, I put this on some other places, because information is important. System is based on collecting energy from air, but without balloons like in Hermann Plauson system. Only differences is that my (or Tesla's) system has not balloons.
@ Branko:
My sincere apologies. I certainly did not intend to insult your life's work. I went back to your site and did some reading. There are a lot of interesting ideas and experiments there. I am glad you posted your response or I would have passed it by. I guess I am just a little sensitive to "spam" as I have been getting a lot of it lately on several sites. I should not have jumped to that conclusion with your post.
Bill
G'day Bill and all,
This is a lovely story about the kid with the americium, though it is unlikely to be true as stated. (but then it would be, they would not like anyone to replicate what the kid really did)
There are only 0.2 microgram of americium in a typical smoke detector. In this small quantity it is only an alpha emitter. In order to get the required gamma rays for the kind of reaction the kid was creating you would need something in the order of 3 to 4 grams of the stuff. In that quantity it is seriously hot and requires careful handling. Incidentally, critical mass is about 60 kilograms. You can imagine how many smoke detectors you would have to cannibalise in order to get a gamma emitter, a mere 100 would get you nowhere.
But back to the device under discussion.
I am not convinced that you need a large radioactive source in order to get the postulated effect. We are NOT talking about a nuclear reaction as far as I can tell from my studies so far. If Barbat is to be believed you don't need radioactive material at all, photons will do.
According to Barbat if you took the device, coated the secondary coil with cuprous oxide and replaced the U 238 vial with a light-globe it would still work.
But as I said before it is still early days and a bit more studying is required before we can start experimenting.
The radioactive material however would be better since it does not need a power source and will last for about four hundred years or so. (Americium 241, the stuff commonly used in smoke detectors, has a a half-life of 432.7 years.)
Hans von Lieven
Greetings,
Has anyone tried to experiment with coils buried in the ground yet? I am waiting for wire I ordered and want to try it before I start looking for radioactive materials. ;D
George
@Branko: great website! very nice collection of thoughts and diagrams. Do you have any experience with coils? Maybe u could suggest some design for our earth batteries.
@all: two ideas
1) From wikipedia: Granite is a normal, geological, source of radiation in the natural environment. Granite contains around 10 to 20 parts per million of uranium. By contrast, more mafic rocks such as tonalite, gabbro or diorite have 1 to 5 ppm uranium, and limestones and sedimentary rocks usually have equally low amounts.
What about trying to stick a lump of granite at the core of our coil?
2) If anyone else is following the thread on coils & self-runnung LEDs? http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3599.0.html
I have got an LED to blink for 5 minutes on the first try. A tiny charge source such as an earth battery would easily be able to keep this guy chraged provided we can getthe correct voltage using some step-up system...
Akash
@ George:
I have not, as of yet. But, I am getting closer. Has anyone else?
@akashh:
This is very interesting information. I would like to see what Hans has to say about this. I have been following the Dr. Stiffler replication. Is that the link you posted? Some very strange and wonderful things happening there that yes, could prove useful to our experiments. (Sorry, I can't check the link right now, but I will after this post.)
@ Hans:
Yes, I agree totally. I was not sure what the actual materials and numbers were in the book but, you are correct. If he found a way to make plutonium or at least, a very hot material of somekind, they would NOT want us, the public to know about it. (or at least how he did it) Oh and critcal mass of americium is 60 kilograms? So, that means that 61 kg would be bad, right? (Boom!)
I like the photon approach better. Can't we use the sun in some way to get the photons? Or, can we get enough power out to power a "photon generator" that will continue the cycle? This is great, thanks Hans.
Bill
@ akashh:
No, I see the link is to the tpu experiments. I have not viewed all of the posts yet but will do so now. Thanks for posting it.
Bill
G'day fellows,
I was wondering how long it would take before someone spotted the link between our research and the TPU and Stiffler circuits. It is all part of the same phenomenon I think, the fundamentals of which I am trying to track down.
For me it is a bit early to get into this yet, I have not a lot to base it on so far, but the gut feel is there and since I seem to be progressing very nicely following it I will continue to do so.
A bit more research on literature and then I will try to design a series of experiments to determine just what is going on, if anything.
Keep the faith fellows, it's still early days.
Hans von Lieven
Hans:
I very much look forward to any experiment ideas you come up with. Although, I have to say that I hope none of them involve a 4 legged stool. (Smile) In my humble mind, the tie I see here thoughout all of this, Dr. Stiffler, Keeley, Tesla, Stubblefield, TPU, etc, is resonance. I think this is the single thread connecting all of these different technologies. And yes Hans, it is early days for sure. I am glad I am here for it.
Bill
Your humble mind is right on the money Bill.
Just consider one thing though, what if resonance has SHAPE !
Hans
Hans:
That's brilliant!!! I love this. You are making me THINK which is something my teachers and professors could not seem to accomplish. Ok, the radiation thing. Radiation is nothing more than particles being emitted by a substance correct? Well, if you have moving particles then you have rate or a frequency of their emission and, if that freq. happens to be a resonant freq. of the particles (ie electrons) moving in a wire or coil, or, a harmonic thereof, then you get the added boost that we all know that resonance can produce. Could this be what Helmholtz and the others were driving at? I 100% believe that resonance has shape. Resonance is waves and I have seen them in the ocean. We also see "shapes" on the oscilloscope as in the Dr. Stiffler idea, although man made but still a representation of the phenomenon. So, I would say that resonance has "shapes" plural. I really hate to say this but maybe particle emission from radiation "leads out" multiples of electronic current in a coil through resonance. That is why I think your photon idea will work. It probably does not matter where the pulse comes from, but it has to be the right pulse at the right time. If I ever get to Australia, I will buy you a beer.
Bill
OK Bill,
Now take it one step further, what if that shape is multidimensional. In other words more than 3D. Who knows what is out there it could be heterodyning with as long as the shape is right.
Unlimited energy, just as Tesla and Keely said.
Hans
I make mistake, and I send post to Dr. Stiffler topic. I write this:
Akashh,
I know that with radioactive is easy to make electricity. Just use plate in air, capacitance and ground (this is Tesla's system for radiant receiver).
But I more like 'clean' ionization (high voltage and high frequency). My investigation go through that idea. I make ionization around plate in air, and free ions and electrons in air going through that path to ground. Transformer for that ionization need to be without ground, and that HF energy need to be recycle. It could make great virtual area. Highest the voltage or greatest space between two transformer plates, and highest height, will make greatest ionization 'cloud' in the air for collecting air current (stratosphere to ground).
On my pages (you ask about coil) i have my equations for coil. But it is standard air coil, and work in the ground will be little different. Important is to have inductance and parasitic capacitance information (for air coil I have good equation). Problem is with resistance, because it is function of frequency (for air coil I make some equations). If frequency is low (I think it is in that earth battery system), resistance can be just measure with standard instrument. Voltage 'amplification' or Q factor is Q=wL/R.
I think that important is to know Tesla's measurement of thunders part of spectrum (from his patent words its is around 30-70 km wave length).
And his bifilar winding coil, has good properties (because of high parasitic capacitance between winding).
My investigation is little different, but source of that energy is the same.
Hi Branko
In looking at your site, I offer the following link as good reading material.
http://amasci.com/tesla/tesceive.html
If you replace the capacitor just above ground in your circuit with a tuned tank circuit, it might raise the voltage dramatically? Especially if tuned to a harmonic of the received radiant RF energy.
Just an idea.
Tishatang
Good work folks,
Ive been away for a few days and just had a chance to catch up. Two main comments id like to focus on,
Bill you hit it right on the head of the nail and ive been thinking about it for a minute... Take the reactor diagram from hans and what we have is some emmitting em radiation and inducing current in that coil... We have the sun which emmits uv and a few other types i think why cant we design a coil to be affected by those waves... To find this answer we must evaluate exactly what that uranium does to the magnetic feild and then see if theres a chart that rates different isotopes and effects on magnetic feilds, after that we might be able to deduce what determines yield vs coil size and design for where em spectrum this works. Different wavelengths of light/energy no matter how long or short can be caputred by a antenna either the physical length or half wave length or making one electrically the same size...... So theres something there... and were using silicon wafers silly us... Good side topic to start in another thread.. summertime.
Second note- Cuprious oxide is the base for a homemade solar panel.... what does this have to do with everything.. made me think.. It can recieve certain wavelengths after cooked down to that part of the metal.
Third note and most important- The micro tpu idea running off of this is great, and like he said one charge 5 mins or so , if we had that thing constantly filling a small step up circuit connected to a cap, that could then dump into what is there starting cap of there device or possibly power a small function generator.
This is where we need some of the electronics guys help so im calling out, if any of you folks with solid circuit building knowledge can help us we need to design a small dc step up circuit currently the highest voltage is bills readings somewhere in between 1.4 to 1.7 v and a little over 2 milli amps not micro so weve got a little power here, were also able to light up led's with a cap connected. If any folks have any ideas for us on how this could power a small function generator, osiclator, or dc step up for micro or regular tpu, This would be MUCH APPRECIATED :)
Joe
Stubblefield continued
G'day guys,
I know how tempting it is to shoot off right here and start with a series of wild experiments in the hope something will come of it.
Perhaps it is time for a bit of reflection on what we have so far and see if we can draw any useful conclusions from it. We have examined the work of Keely, Stubblefield, Tesla, Hubbard, Barbat etc. and found that there is a lot more than anecdotal evidence that these guys were playing around with a phenomenon that is currently unacknowledged by mainstream science.
Contrary to popular belief, especially in a forum such as this, there is nothing sinister in this.
Science is loath to admit into a body of accepted knowledge anything that does not conform with its standard of what constitutes acceptable proof. That is proper. Otherwise there would be no difference between science and speculation, however well founded.
By the same token mainstream science is painfully aware that current theories are full of holes in major areas and there is a worldwide effort to fill these gaps and arrive at a better understanding of the world around us and its mysteries. We call that research.
So let us not discard everything that science stands for in favour of some crackpot theory that perhaps sounds nice or fits in better with some metaphysical or religious model.
Scientific investigative procedures are quite sound and have stood the test of time. They do allow for the most outlandish and speculative hypotheses though the burden of proof lies with the one putting up the theories. Extraordinary statements in science require an extraordinary level of substantiation and replication before they become acceptable.
Why am I bringing this up here?
Because it is relevant to our current project, not only that, but relevant to the entire OU debate.
Essentially the difference between the OU movement and mainstream science is that science accepts the laws of conservation of energy whereas the OU movement does not.
There is much talk about energy from a vacuum (Bearden) and energy out of nothing (Omnibus). Such notions are of course idiotic.
Logic dictates that if you can pull something out of a vacuum, or a nothing if you prefer, it wasn?t a vacuum or a nothing to start with.
But there are instances where energy appears seemingly out of nowhere in contradiction to the conservation of energy laws (Sonoluminescence is a well documented example of this).
Which brings us to Helmholtz.
Helmholtz?s seminal work ?Ueber die Erhaltung der Kraft? (On the conservation of force) has become a cornerstone of contemporary science and is accepted as fact.
Well, almost.
Helmholtz states in his book that there is an exception to this, which he partially retracted and qualified some 36 years later. This statement is refuted by science. (see my earlier post that contains the full quote).
The work of Keely, Stubblefield, Hubbard, Barbat and to some extend Tesla rest squarely on that premise by Helmholtz.
So why did Helmholtz say it in the first instance and what brought him to retract it partially years later?
Helmholtz was no idiot. Not only was he a great thinker but he was a great experimenter as well. He made a great many discoveries, especially in resonance and acoustics which are part of accepted science today. He furnished impeccable proof for his discoveries.
I think that Helmholtz found something in his experiments that supported this idea but he was unable to furnish sufficient proof to satisfy his peers.
I believe that Helmholtz is right. It is now up to us to prove it and bring the whole OU idea into the realm of accepted and doable science.
Helmholtz worked with pressure waves. So did Keely. The others use different forms of energy to get the same effects. We need to follow this line of approach and find the fundamental principles involved if we want to solve this.
Hans von Lieven
@ Localjoe:
I agree 100%. I was just thinking before I read your post that the Dr. Stiffler replications use a coil, (ferrite coil aka am radio ANTENNA) and, so do the folks over on the micro tpu topic. So, I think the drill here is to not "generate" electricity but to "receive" it. I think that when all is said and done, ALL of this is related somehow. (Stiffler, tpu, Stubblefield, etc.) If I am not mistaken, the sun fires photons at us at an alarming rate. They strike the earth. Do they bounce off? Are they soaked up by the earth? A photon is a unity of energy and, unless it is converted somehow, it does not just go away. The information Hans is giving us is important. It will help to steer us in the right direction. I also agree that we need the assistance of the electronics guys in designing our circuits. (coils)
@ Hans:
Everything in your last post agrees with my thoughts as well. If we could only figure out why Helmholtz retracted his statement so long afterward this might be a key. I agree is was probably pressure of the "accepted" understanding of the time. Everyone here by now should know how I feel about that. (The earth is flat, heavier than air craft can't fly, etc.) I also agree that we need to approach this in a somewhat organized manner. There will be plenty of experimentation to do and we will need all of us to do it. I feel a little bad that I have not been able to achieve higher voltages than my posted results. We just found out this week that my Father has Leukemia and the prognosis is not very good at this point. He and my Mom live in Florida so there is not much I can do right now but, I really look forward to the posts here which help me to take my mind off of things for a bit. I love to think and I would rather be thinking of energy, ou, coils, etc than my Father's condition.
Bill
Tishatang,
Thanks for suggestion. In my circuit, idea is to recycle all high frequency current. But my focus is on direct current from 'antenna' plates to ground. This is extra current which come from stratosphere. It is always around us (around 1800 A for all Earth). With 1 balloon on 100-300 m height, it could collect few kW of power. I try to build replacement for that balloons. I think that high voltage from Tesla's transformer can do that.
When I was working on some experiment, I am surprise with that direct current (because I remove all diodes from experiment).
And it come when Tesla's transformer is not grounded, and when HF is stopped to go to ground with high inductance ( DC could pass through it). If transformer is put to ground, that current will become 'invisible' (going to ground to).
With only 3 W of power, and 150 V of high frequency, and 1 m2 of plates, that DC current charge 470 uF capacitance in less than 1 minutes to more than 10 V. It could be some rectifier effect (without diodes) or that stratosphere to earth current.
My next step is to build more areas plates, and highest voltage on HF transformer.
I measure charging grounding capacitor (but low energy input), only with plate in air, and inductance (for stopping some HF to come to capacitor).
It is good to know all that effect because in Stubblefield's earth battery system is Fe wire and core. It is not the same, but source of energy is the same.
incase anyone is interested
it is some good reading
http://www.hbci.com/~wenonah/history/nathan-s.htm
A bit of Barbat for all that are interested,
A big thanks to Hans for picking up on my cryptic reference awhile back to the patent for a Self-Sustaining Electrical Generator by William Barbat. This patent is my project of choice, but I haven't gotten much further than pulling the patent apart for a list of clues, and coming up with a simplified replication build plan. But maybe what I have done will help others to conceptualize/visualize what Barbat is saying/claiming.
Trivia: Tesla's Self-Sustaining Electrical Generator and the Ether, by Oliver Nichelson (Proceedings of the 1984 International Tesla Symposium) A naming coincidence?
I've concentrated on working with the cupric oxide (CuO) variation instead of the exotic/expensive photoconductors, doped semiconductors, or superconductors as a source of and conductor of low-mass electrons. Need to find a method for oxidizing copper wire to get the cupric oxide coating.
Finally, before you ask me about wire diameters, # of turns, dimensions, variable caps, etc, just don't, as I don't know the answers. I just know this is my interpretation of the minimum it will take to either get a result, or drive yourself crazy.
First, the simplified replication build plan:
Theory - Low-mass electrons must have originated in a thin-film coating of cupric oxide (CuO) on the wire. CuO is a dull-black, polycrystalline, semiconducting compound that develops in situ on copper wire in the course of exposure to oxygen
Image - see attached barbat_fig3a.jpg
20. Sending coil - single layer of insulated copper wire (formed on a dielectric substrate if desired)
24. Energy coil - single layer of bare oxidized (cupric oxide CuO) copper wire (formed on a substrate transmissive to inductive-photon radiation if desired), with a connector 30 to form a continuous conductor
28a. Output coil - single layer of insulated copper wire, coaxially nested inside the energy coil 24 (formed on a dielectric substrate if desired) . 47a and dotted arrow 47b indicate that the internal output coil actually is coaxially inside the energy coil
46. Feed-back loop - insulated copper wire in parallel with the work loop, with a variable capacitor 77 and variable resistor 50 to make an LC circuit
48. Work loop - insulated copper wire with a resistance load 51 (lamp or resistor)
Starting - momentarily expose the sending coil 20 or feed-back loop 46 to a permanent magnet moved rapidly (either mechanically or manually), relative to the sending coil
Note - relative voltage and current of output power can be varied by changing the ratio of the number of turns in the energy-magnifying coil to the number of turns in the output coil
Next, a subset of indexed points from the patent:
[0110] The feed-back loop conducts a portion of the electric power from the internal output coil back to the sending coil. The remaining portion of the electric power from the internal output coil is directed to the work loop where the power is utilized for useful work (e.g., an electrical resistor). The relative proportions of output power delivered to the feed-back loop and to the work loop can be varied by adjusting a variable resistor.
[0111] An initial source of electrical energy is used for "starting" by initiating an oscillation in the sending coil. After starting, it is self-resonant and no longer requires input of energy from the initial source. The inductance and distributed capacitance of the sending coil plus all other capacitances and inductances in the apparatus provide a certain corresponding frequency of self-resonating oscillation. In the feed-back loop is a capacitor that makes the apparatus an L-C circuit that oscillates at its own frequency. The frequency can be changed by altering the capacitance or the inductance of the apparatus, or both. The capacitor can be a variable capacitor by which the frequency can be adjusted.
[0112] The initial source of oscillating electrical energy can be an impulse from an external electromagnet powered by its own energy source (a battery as shown, dc or ac source). The electromagnet can be placed near the sending coil or other portion of the feed-back loop and energized by a momentary discharge delivered from the battery by a switch. The resulting pulse generated in the electromagnet initiates a corresponding electrical pulse in the sending coil that initiates self-sustaining oscillations in the apparatus. The electromagnet can be energized briefly by an ac source. The initial source can be a permanent magnet that is moved rapidly (either mechanically or manually) near the sending coil or other portion of the feed-back circuitry. The pulse provided by the initial source initiates electrical oscillations in the sending coil that produce corresponding oscillating inductive-photon radiation from the sending coil, as shown by thin, jagged arrows. The inductive-photon radiation from the sending coil causes re-radiation of magnified inductive-photon energy from low-mass electrons in the energy-magnifying coil, as shown by thick, jagged arrows.
[0113] Energy-magnification allows the energy-magnifying coil to induce greater energy in the internal output coil than the energy of the corresponding initial impulse. A portion of the magnified electrical energy is returned to the sending coil via the feed-back loop to sustain the oscillations.
[0114] Surplus energy from the internal output coil is available for useful work via the work loop. In one embodiment some of this useful work can be used for illuminating the photoconduction exciter (circuitry not shown) in an apparatus configuration in which the energy-magnifying coil comprises a photoconductor. In another embodiment some of this useful work can be used for maintaining cryogenic (T<T.sub.c) conditions for an apparatus configuration in which the energy-magnifying coil comprises a superconductor.
[0115] After starting oscillations electron flow builds up rapidly so long as the load does not draw off too much of the output energy during startup. Upon reaching operational equilibrium, the output of electrical power from the apparatus is a rapidly alternating current (ac). The ac output can be rectified by conventional means to produce direct current (dc), and the output can be regulated using conventional means as required. Many variations of conventional circuitry are possible, such as, but not limited to, automatic voltage controllers, current controllers, solenoidal switches, transformers, and rectifiers.
And finally, all the clue fragments from the patent:
low-mass electrons must have originated in a thin-film coating of cupric oxide (CuO) on the antenna wire. CuO is a dull-black, polycrystalline, semiconducting compound that develops in situ on copper and bronze wire in the course of annealing the wire in the presence of air.
sending coil, which is comprised of a metallic conductor
output coil, which is comprised of a metallic conductor
energy-magnifying coil can comprise a semiconductive element or compound that has been doped with a particular element or compound that makes it conductive of low-mass electrons without illumination by photon radiation other than by ambient photons.
the "starting" step can comprise momentarily exposing the first coil to an external oscillating inductive force or to an external magnetic force that initiates an electrical pulse
the production of inwardly radiating and outwardly radiating magnified inductive photons from the energy-magnifying coil
an internal output coil coaxially nested inside the energy-magnifying coil to allow efficient induction of the internal output coil by the energy-magnifying coil
a metallic separator, having a substantially parabolic shape and being situated between the sending coil and the internal output coil, reflects some of the otherwise unused inductive-photon radiation to maximize the effective radiation received by the energy-magnifying coil. Also, the metallic shield prevents the internal output coil from receiving radiation sent from the sending coil.
the metallic separator acting as a shield to restrict the back-force radiation reaching the sending coil while allowing the internal output coil to receive a substantial portion of the magnified radiation from the energy-magnifying coil.
also including respective ferromagnetic cores inside the sending coil and internal output coils. Also depicted is a metallic shield surrounding the entire apparatus.
a sending coil of in which a ferromagnetic sleeve is disposed coaxially around the sending coil.
the transfer of energy by electrical induction was found to work in the same manner as the transfer of energy by the broadcast and reception of oscillating radio signals. A transverse force is communicated in both cases, the force declines similarly with distance, and the effects of shielding and reflection are identical.
the output coil can be made of insulated metallic wire. An exemplary output coil is situated coaxially with and nested within the energy-magnification coil
the oscillations in the energy-magnifying coil are initiated by an external energy-input source that provides an initiating impulse of electron flow in the sending coil. the external energy-input source can be an adjacent independent electromagnet or an adjacent permanent magnet moved rapidly relative to the sending coil. Energy from the external energy-input source is magnified by the apparatus so long as the energy-magnifying coil does not act as an independent oscillator at a different frequency. Independent oscillation is desirably avoided by connecting the ends or terminals of the energy-magnifying coil to each other in such a way that it results in one continuous coil
a feed-back loop arranged in parallel with the work loop that includes the sending coil, and with a capacitor located in the feed-back loop to make it an L-C circuit. becomes self-resonating, which allows the external energy-input source to be decoupled from the apparatus without causing the apparatus to cease production of electrical energy.
takes advantage of the fact that the inductive back-force sent from the output coil to the energy-magnifying coil (and hence ultimately back to the sending coil) arrives at the sending coil one cycle behind the corresponding pulse that initiated the flow of electrons. This one-cycle lag of the back-force, as well as a corresponding one-cycle lag in the feed-back, enables small starting pulses produced in the sending coil to produce progressively greater electrical outputs each successive cycle. Consequently, assuming the electrical load is not excessive during startup, only a relatively few initiating cycles from the external energy-input source typically are needed for achieving production by the apparatus of an amount of output power sufficient for driving the load as well as providing sufficient energy feedback to the sending coil in a sustained manner.
a half-cycle of the one-cycle lag occurs between an initial acceleration of electrons in the sending coil and a corresponding initial oscillation in the energy-magnifying coil.
a second half-cycle lag occurs between the acceleration of low-mass electrons in the energy-magnifying coil and the corresponding electron flow induced in the output coil. The feed-back from the output coil boosts the electron flow in the sending coil one whole cycle after the initial pulse.
the sending coil is shown having a desirable cylindrical profile, desirably with a circular cross-section as the most efficient configuration. The sending coil can comprise a single layer or multiple layers of insulated metal wire (e.g., insulated copper wire) forming the coil. One layer is sufficient, but an additional layer or layers may increase operational efficiency. If necessary or desired, the turns of wire can be formed on a cylindrical substrate made of a suitable dielectric.
energy-magnifying coil that desirably has a cylindrical profile extending parallel to the sending coil. the energy-magnifying coil does not terminate at the ends, but rather it is constructed with a connector to form a continuous conductor. desirably is a helical coil. If necessary or desired, the energy-magnifying coil can be formed on a substrate that, if used, desirably is transmissive to the inductive-photon radiation produced by the coil.
the relative amount of the total energy of inductive-photon radiation received by the energy-magnifying coil is determined by the angle subtended by the energy-magnifying coil, relative to the entire 360 degrees of inductive-photon radiation from the sending coil.
of the magnified inductive-photon energy radiating from the energy-magnifying coil, substantially half is directed inwardly, and substantially the other half is radiated outwardly.
the internal output coil and the conductors of the work loop desirably are made of insulated metallic (e.g., copper) wire.
aside from the small amount of inductive-photon radiation lost from the ends of the energy-magnifying coil, the relative amount of the magnified inductive-photon radiation providing the back-force on the sending coil is a function of the angle subtended by the sector, compared to the 360-degree radiation from the energy-magnifying coil.
the conductors of the feed-back loop can be made of insulated metallic wire. The relative proportions of output power delivered to the feed-back loop and to the work loop can be varied by adjusting a variable resistor.
after starting, under usual operating conditions the apparatus is self-resonant and no longer requires input of energy from the initial source. The particular inductance and distributed capacitance of the sending coil plus all other capacitances and inductances provide a certain corresponding frequency of self-resonating oscillation. In the feed-back loop is a capacitor that makes the apparatus an L-C circuit that oscillates at its own frequency. The frequency can be changed by altering the capacitance or the inductance of the apparatus, or both. The capacitor can be a variable capacitor by which the frequency can be adjusted.
the initial source of oscillating electrical energy can be an impulse from an external electromagnetpowered by its own energy source (a battery or other dc or ac source). the electromagnetcan be placed near the sending coil or other portion of the feed-back loop and energized by a momentary discharge delivered from the battery by a switch. the initial source can be a permanent magnet that is moved rapidly (either mechanically or manually) near the sending coil or other portion of the feed-back circuitry.
after starting oscillations, electron flow builds up rapidly so long as the load does not draw off too much of the output energy during startup. Upon reaching operational equilibrium, the output of electrical power is a rapidly alternating current (ac). The ac output can be rectified by conventional means to produce direct current (dc), and the output can be regulated using conventional means as required. Many variations of conventional circuitry are possible, such as automatic voltage controllers, current controllers, solenoidal switches, transformers, and rectifiers.
alternatively, copper oxides are formed in place on bare copper or bronze wire by heating the wire above about 260.degree. C. in an oxygen atmosphere, or by application of chemical oxidants.
a second electron of comparatively low mass may have been liberated from cupric oxide by alpha radiation along with the outer copper electron in Leimer's (1915) experiments, since the measured energy magnification exceeded the magnification calculated from cyclotron resonance of CuO, which most likely pertains only to the mass of the outer electron.
use of a single energy-magnifying coil to capture inductive photons from the sending coil results in loss (by non-capture) of most of the inductive photons from the sending coil. This proportion of captured inductive photons can be increased greatly in an embodiment in which multiple energy-magnifying coils are arrayed around the sending coil. the energy-magnifying coils substantially completely surround the sending coil, and (although six energy-magnifying coils are shown) as few as three energy-magnifying coils of adequate diameter still could substantially completely surround the sending coil.
also depicts respective internal output coils nested coaxially and coextensively inside each of the energy-magnifying coils. the overall energy output can be increased by surrounding the array of energy-magnifying coils with an external output coil, of which the conductors desirably are made of insulated metallic wire. In this embodiment approximately half the outwardly propagating, magnified inductive-photon radiation from each energy-magnifying coil is received by the external output coil. When this externally directed inductive radiation captured from all the energy-magnifying coils is added to all the inwardly directed radiation captured from the energy-magnifying coils by their respective internal output coils , the total energy received by the output coils, greatly exceeds the back-force energy directed by the energy-magnifying coils toward the sending coil. Thus, the resulting energy "leverage" exhibited by the apparatus is increased substantially by including the external output coil.
whenever multiple energy-magnifying coils are used, the respective directions of electron flow in them desirably occur in the same circular direction as viewed endwise. Thus, the flow of electrons in all the energy-magnifying coils is clockwise during one phase of an oscillation cycle and counterclockwise during the other phase.
the energy-magnifying coils desirably are connected together in series, to maintain the same direction of electron flow, which can be clockwise or counter-clockwise . This direction of electron flow in a coil is termed the "handedness" of the coil. If the energy-magnifying coils all have the same handedness, then the termini of adjacent energy-magnifying coils are connected together in a head-to-foot manner progressively in one direction around the group of coils. ("Head" refers to the forward-facing end, and "foot" refers to the rearward-facing end of the apparatus in relation to the viewer.)
connecting the internal output coils together in series is advantageous if it is desired to maximize the output voltage. Alternatively, the internal output coils can be connected together in parallel if it is desired to maximize the output electrical current while minimizing output voltage. \ In this alternative configuration, all the internal output coils desirably are wound with the same handedness, with each coil having two respective leads. The leads at one end (e.g., the foot end) of the coils are connected to each other, and the leads at the other end (the head end) of the coils are connected to each other. The resulting parallel-coil system is connected in a conventional manner in other circuitry
the internal output coils can be connected together so as to provide more than one output circuit (so long as sufficient energy is produced for use as feedback to the sending coil and for use in establishing conditions favorable for producing abundant low-mass electrons). The relative voltage(s) and current(s) of output power alternatively can be varied by changing the ratio of the number of turns in the energy-magnifying coils to the number of turns in the internal output coils.
certain features can be incorporated with any of the embodiments to add functional practicality. a ferromagnetic core can be disposed inside the sending coil, and ferromagnetic cores can be disposed inside respective internal output coils. These cores increase the inductance of the apparatus, which lowers the frequency of the electrical oscillations produced by the apparatus. Although increases in inductance can cause the output voltage and current to be out of phase, the phase difference can be corrected by adding capacitance to the circuitry by conventional means. Also shown is an external metal shield that completely surrounds the apparatus to block any radiation from the device that could interfere with radios, televisions, telephones, computers, and other electronic devices. The shield can be comprised of any of various non-magnetic metals such as aluminum or magnesium.
an alternative means of increasing the inductance, a ferromagnetic sleeve is disposed coaxially around the sending coil.
the respective dimensional ratios of various components generally remain similar with respect to each other for different apparatus sizes, except for the longitudinal dimension, which generally can be as short or long as desired up to some practical limit. The respective gauges of wires used in the sending coil and the output coils are commensurate with the electric current carried by these wires, and the respective thicknesses of insulation (if used) on the wires are commensurate with the voltage.
the outside diameter of the internal output coils desirably is only slightly less than the inside diameter of the respective energy-magnifying coils, thereby ensuring close proximity of each internal output coil with its respective energy-magnifying coil. At a sacrifice in efficiency, the outside diameter of the internal output coils can be made smaller to allow space for heat from the current-carrying wires to escape or be removed by a coolant such as forced air
desirably, the external output coil is connected in series with the internal output coils to maximize the output voltage and to minimize heat produced by the electric currents in the apparatus. The output voltage can be stepped down and the output electrical current can be stepped up to normal respective operating ranges using a transformer, wherein the primary of the transformer would comprise the load in the work loop.
the photoconductive coils desirably are coated using clear varnish or enamel to provide electrical insulation and to protect the photoconductors from oxidation and weathering.
tak
tak,
is this a TPU or what? am i just imagineing this or all of these things being attemted in the TPU thread? it seems to be not only the starting mechanism that has been missing but most of the theory. combined with the earth battery, i guess this takes alot of the guess work out of "free energy" !!!!!
GREAT FIND!!!!!
lol
sam
sam,
no, I don't think it's a TPU or an earth battery, I think it's a missing link ;) I'm sticking with this replication attempt until either I get it to work, or someone else conclusively proves it false. simplicity has to win sometimes ;D
I'll limit my posts here so as not to distract from earth batteries.
tak
Quote from: akashh on November 27, 2007, 08:15:29 PM
@all: two ideas
1) From wikipedia: Granite is a normal, geological, source of radiation in the natural environment. Granite contains around 10 to 20 parts per million of uranium. By contrast, more mafic rocks such as tonalite, gabbro or diorite have 1 to 5 ppm uranium, and limestones and sedimentary rocks usually have equally low amounts.
What about trying to stick a lump of granite at the core of our coil?
Just following along with this thread and the thread about power generated from a pyramid, I suddenly rememberd that in the actual great pyramid, there are 5 huge slabs of granite above the kings chamber. Maybe granite is some sort of magnifier.
just a thought
@brahma: That's an interesting idea. I am also following the pyramid thread but was not aware of the granite in the egyptian ones. I guess one could easily enough wind a coil around a lump of granite and see whether it does anything... :-)
@all... was just reading up on basic electronics and physics. When I came to the section on magnets it said vary clearly that the earth's magnetic field is not understood yet. It then talked about natural magnetism vs electromagetism. In electromagets there's always an electric field and magnetic field present. One does not exist without the other. Now why does that not apply to normal magnets? Maybe it does but the field is closed loop, and we need to find a way to 'break' that?
Another though relates to the tpu. I was thinking about reversible effects. I stuck an LED under a bright light and measured voltage! So I'm wondering whether running the TPU under bright sunlight will show a different run time vs in a dark box.
http://sci-toys.com/scitoys/scitoys/radio/xtal.html (http://sci-toys.com/scitoys/scitoys/radio/xtal.html)
The above link is to a coil calculator that I found. You plug in the wire dia, etc. and it tells you what you the frequency the coil will be, etc. This appears like it might come in handy.
Bill
Good find Bill,
Sorry for not posting much at the moment, there are a couple of reasons for it. I am having to look after the animals of a relative that is in hospital (she is getting much better) and I am trying to find out if the Helmholtz statement about exceptions to conservation of energy has validity. This much you know.
My reasoning is that if it is real there must be evidence of it in other areas, such as chemistry for instance, since I cannot imagine the principles to be confined to electricity and radiation etc. only. If it is real it MUST apply across the board.
At the moment I am looking at Dr. Griffin's and Dave's work and some interesting things are starting to surface. I will write it up as soon as I have a bit more than I have at present.
So please bear with me, I am still at it.
Hans von Lieven
@all
What do you think about this? An earth power module.
Last schematic on the page.
Quote from the page.
"Hey another cool thing I found is that if you earth both the earth of the circuit to ground and the other end of the antenna to a separate ground, you increase the power dramatically, compared to using a normal antenna and coil."
http://www.angelfire.com/ak5/energy21/ambientpower.htm
@ Yaz:
Great link! This appears to me to be combining both the earth battery (telluric currents) and the interception of radio waves in the air, both man made and natural. His voltage output was impressive. We will have to add this into the mix and see what the experimenters can do. Have you tried any of this yet? Can you invite the guy from that link to our topic here? The more minds and ideas, the better.
Bill
G'day all,
Here is something I found on Tesla that is relevant. This is clearly about the project he was running with Stubblefield.
Tesla vs. Hertz
Tesla was not a theoretician by calling, but he made plenty of observations on the electrical nature of the universe that put him at odds with of official theory. In fashion then (and even now) was the theory of Heinrich Hertz, an interpreter of the physics of James Maxwell. Hertz explained radio propagation as transverse waves akin to light. Tesla was convinced that radio disturbances were standing waves in the ether akin to sound. When you drop a pebble into water, the disturbances you see in the form of concentric circles are standing waves.
Both Tesla and Hertz assumed the existence of an aetheric medium, but differed as to its energy transmitting properties. Tesla believed that the ether was a gas like medium, that electric propagation was very much like that of sounds in air, alternate compression's and rarefaction's of the medium, and that Hertzian waves could only take place in a solid medium. Tesla once said that Hertz waves are radiation and that no energy could be economically transmitted to a distance by any such agency. He said, In my system, the process is one of true conduction which can be effected at the greatest distance without appreciable loss.
When quantum physics and particle theory came into vogue, the aetheric medium was dropped out of electric theory altogether, but Hertz's theory was more compatible with the new concepts of propagation and therefore survived. By way of rubbing this in, the unit of frequency, formerly cycles per second (cps), was renamed in honor of Hertz (Hz), while only an obscure unit of magnetic flux density remembers Tesla. It is in respect to Tesla that I have reverted to the old unit in this book. Hertzian radio is straight-line, light-like radiation's that bounce off hills and mountains. Long distance Hertzian transmissions are explained in terms of radiation's bouncing off a radio reflective upper layer called the ionosphere. Tesla thought this was all nonsense and declared in 1919 that Hertzian thinking has stifled creative effort in the wireless art and retarded it for 25 years. Hertzian radio is aerial.
Most of us are conditioned to thinking in terms of aerial radio; the air waves, on the air. Tesla's radio is grounded; the lower end of the energized coil is rooted in the earth. Pure Hertzian radio has no such natural load. Tesla doesn't speak of antennas as such; the element he places aloft is an elevated capacity. Tesla said radio devices should be designed with due regard to the physical properties of this planet and the electrical conditions obtaining in same. Grounded radio is indeed more powerful than the Hertzian aerial. But this is true particularly for the frequencies Tesla was using. The higher frequencies do behave in a Hertzian manner. Yet grounding is all but a lost concept in consumer electronics. Up through the 1940's, AM radio receivers customarily had a terminal one was encouraged to connect to a cold water pipe or other deep earth connection. Ground the chassis of any of today's receivers, and, unless there is some kind of interference coming up through the ground (from fluorescent circuits, light dimmers, which are oscillators, or from the local Tesla coil), you will usually improve signal strength and range.
Among Tesla's contributions to radio was remote control. Tesla demonstrated a radio-controlled boat before crowds at Madison Square Gardens and sent another robot craft 25 miles up the Hudson River. Grounded radio works particularly well through water. Tesla's basic radio tuning tank circuit for receiving (coil plus capacitor between antenna and ground) was, and is, all by itself, a powerful signal amplifier, and a beautifully simple one, at that. But as radio developed over the years, the tank circuit shrank in size and the result was a loss in gain. This was compensated for by the addition of stage upon stage of complex amplification circuitry.
Tesla watched this development with bewilderment. Tesla knew that the most efficient long-distance radio took place in the lower frequencies, especially those close to the earth-resonant frequency. Frequencies well below the AM broadcast band were the favored ham frequencies in the early days prior to World War I. In fact, waves of 600 meters (500 kc) were considered short while considered fairly long were the waves of 1200 meters (25 kc). Like a lot of good real estate, many of these more radio-effective frequencies below the AM broadcast band have been appropriated for military use, but also for navigation beacons, weather stations, and time registers.
Source: http://www.frank.germano.com/lost_inventions.htm
Hans von Lieven
EDIT: On another page on the same website:
These are the words of Nikola Tesla, spoken in 1937; (part of a larger speech)
One of my most important discoveries--terrestrial resonance--which is the foundation of wireless power transmission and which I announced in 1899, is not understood even today. Nearly two years after I had flashed an electric current around the globe, Edison, Steinmetz, Marconi, and others declared that it would not be possible to transmit even signals by wireless across the Atlantic. Having anticipated so many important developments, it is not without assurance that I attempt to predict what life is likely to be in the twenty-first century.
@ Hans:
Once again, excellent information, thank you. From what I have read of Tesla, the earth can and does act as a meduim for signal transmissions. (ie energy?) It is very interesting to me that he knew, even then, the resonant freq. of the earth. (very low)
@mramos:
I agree. I have been following the Stiffler experiments and have always been wondering how we can tie this to the earth battery experiments we are working on here. Please let us know of your results. There are a lot of good minds here and I think we can get a handle on this thing before too long.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on December 07, 2007, 09:20:35 PM
@ Hans:
Once again, excellent information, thank you. From what I have read of Tesla, the earth can and does act as a meduim for signal transmissions. (ie energy?) It is very interesting to me that he knew, even then, the resonant freq. of the earth. (very low)
Bill
It is no surprise to me that Tesla knew the what is called now resonant frequency of earth about 7.8 Hz (Schumann resonance). With his earthquake machine he would have had to go much. much lower than this to cause the effects he did.
I seriously doubt though that Tesla was referring to the Schumann resonance.
According to Wikipedia:
The fundamental mode of the Schumann resonance is a standing wave in the Earth-ionosphere cavity with a wavelength equal to the circumference of the Earth. I think that Tesla was referring to the resonnant frequency of the ENTIRE MASS OF THE EARTH, which would have to be much lower.
How he cottoned on to this and how he measured it with the instruments of the day is an enigma to me.
Hans von Lieven
Hey Guys!
Interesting topic. I was doing some in-depth reading on earth battery experiments awhile back and I remember that they,
( I don't remember who), were sending a charge into the ground to get it going- like a syphon I guess. After that they would get a greater charge that would keep giving and get larger with time. I don't know if it works or helps but I thought i'd mention it.-JT
Good memory JT,
This is indeed what they claimed. The same idea is also reflected in the Barbat patents.
Hans von Lieven
G'day all,
Have a look at this gentlemen and let me know what you think. Interesting document. (about 12 pages or so)
http://www.theverylastpageoftheinternet.com/forsale/plans/earthbattery/ebpage1.htm
Hans von Lieven
@ Hans:
Fantastic find!!! I just read the entire thing. I don't know if this guy is right about everything he says but it gives us more information for our work here. Great job.
Bill
G'day Gentlemen,
Have a look at this one. This video was created by Mark Snowswell.
About it he says:
I came up with this idea a little while back and figured it was time to make it public...
The attached video describes how charge applied to a Toroidal Bi-filar Capacitor (TBC) will result in an electrostatic pulse traveling around the centre of the toroidal path in sync with the TBC charge front.
Classical EM analysis shows that you get complimentary electro static field's (ESF) inside and outside a TBC. These ESF's occur and follow the pulse front as the TBC charges up. The animation depicts the generation of the ESF pulse generated inside the TBC. Not shown is the complimentary ESF that surrounds the pulse front on the outside.
The idea is that the ESF pulse drives a current pulse along a central accumulator. In an operational device the TBC would be made in 4 segments with each segment firing sequentially -- triggered by the pulse arriving from the previous segment. You could also try a segmented accumulator (collector) with each segment connected to the next TBC segment.
To which I wrote back:
Thanks Mark.
Brilliant animation and reasoning.
I take it that this does not only apply to a toroid coil but would equally apply to a standard coil wound in this manner. Like the Stubblefield coil for instance.
Is this correct?
Hans von Lieven
Mark's answer to my question was:
Yes. When pulse charging any bifilar capacitor there will be a ESF pulse that travels down the center of the coil. There is also an oposing polarity circular ESF pulse that travels down the outside of the coil.
Mark.
The video is here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2764.0;attach=15283
This fits in very nicely with my overall idea how Stubblefield's system works.
Hans von Lieven
Hi All,
For those of you who do get 1.1-1.2 volts at low current (5ma or more) - here's how to get it up to 5V.
http://www.talkingelectronics.com/projects/PowerSupply5vSolar/PowerSupply5vSolar.html
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.talkingelectronics.com%2Fprojects%2FPowerSupply5vSolar%2Fimages%2F5vSolarAuto.gif&hash=df4ce1c6c96fa37560c8374d1c8866cd0e198977)
It's stolen from another site made to convert a solar cell to 5V for a data logger.
Actually this is maybe more interesting, it explains how to power a pulsed LED garden light from a very small voltage: http://www.talkingelectronics.com/projects/SolarLight/SolarLight.html
Akashh:
Do you think this circuit would work? Thanks for posting it. Has anyone tried it yet? I'll see if I have the stuff here to build it.
Hans:
In the system shown in the video...where would the pulses come from? Would they need to be manual/mechanical or electronic as from a chip of somekind? If electronic, what type of chip/timer would be required? The more I learn the more I realize what I don't know. The wire coil looked to be using two insulated wires or am I not correct on that?
Bill
@Bill: Yes it should work although I have not built it. The second link is a standard circuit used in most LED garden lights, and the first seems to be a take on that. Just have to get the coil winding right. Let me know how it goes, I'm going to try building one too but I cannot find the right ferrite bead at the moment.
Actually, this is more what we need - the other circuit would only switch on at night.
(http://5vearthbat.gif)
i have not read all of the posts here but i have gotten a good start. i have a lot of random information rattling inside my head but i hope in this daze of sleep deprived drunken confusion i can manage to get it out coherently.
i have been experimenting with the john hutchison crystal battery and started a bit with tesla's wireless. so far i have not been able to harness any wireless electricity from tesla but from the crystal battery i found a couple of interesting points. my setup is a film canister roughly a c-d sized cell battery type full of sand and salt water. this with aluminum foil electrodes (both from non stick aluminum foil in the house) generated a voltage that slowly decreased over the course of about 4 hours (roughly) it started at .8 and reached .2 before i stoped the experiment. i do not know the current i fear my cheep volt meter is fried for current reading. but it did carry a load of 50k ohm for that short time and also generated hydrogen gas (very little) i found later that the aluminum was rusted or oxidized. i believe magnesium reacts with most metals and caused this (magnesium is in table salt if i remember correctly) so what i created was really just a crazy battery. not sure if it helps but to point in a possibly negative area, there are some eliments that will generate electricity even if the electrodes are the same material (not supposed to happen by science according to a high school teacher) i seen mention of batteries and what makes the voltage or current, according to what i have read each chemistry in a battery (the metals used for electrodes and the electrolyte used) determins a specific voltage for that battery. a lead acid has a specific or characteristic voltage of 2 volts (6 cells in a car battery) and alkaline batteries 1.5 nimh batteries are 1.25 i believe. so our chemistry should determin the volts and the conductor or electrode area determins the current. but then this is modern battery science not earth creative science....... they dont account for magnetic flux, solar flares, radio transmitions, if someone turned on a major appliance, lightning or other effects.
on a side note, i like quartz, if you put a fluctuating voltage in it resonates. if you put a radio frequency in it generates a current.. the only sad part is i cant figure out how to get it to generate the current without the antena ??? oh and i did a control experiment, i used salt and quartz sand same as before but without the water, i cooked it on the stove. it didnt generate any voltage. water seems to be needed to do anything here.
also, there was mention of a ham radio operator who got a lot of voltage off of a antena and ground? has anyone played with a combination of antena and ground? seems to me there would be a greater difference available there than with the ground alone.
hope my ramblings are in some way useful.
try this,flat carpenters pencil for positive,zink or roofing nail for neg,solution of regular bleach,and white vinegar,table salt got over 2 volts, voltage with plain water also but not much.
jrader
@ Artic Knight:
I believe I was the one that posted about radio talk show host Art Bell and his Ham antenna set up in the high desert of Nevada. He was getting so much voltage that he was frying his equipment left and right. Also, this was the desert so no chance of water being the electrolite there, as some say all of this is just pure galvanic reaction. I agree that possibly using an antenna array along with the earth "ground" may allow for much better energy collection. I think someone somewhere (Russia perhaps) is doing just that and I believe there is a post or two on here that refers to it. I am getting voltages off of a tree in front of my place in an experiment mentioned on here earlier as well. Maybe the trees are acting as antennas in some way? Funny thing is, my tree at least, is neg. and the earth ground then becomes pos. (Using my carbon rod) I'd have to look it up but I believe I was getting 1.25 vdc. I am still awaiting the arrival of my 40 or so leds I ordered from Asia a while ago. I want to see how many I can light at once and I am also going to attempt to build the voltage amp. that akashh posted.
I have been following Hutchison for years and I like his "energy cells" made from stuff he finds outside and cooks in his oven. I think the sand you mentioned, quartz, is interesting. Have you been following the pyramid experiments thread where they have a coil set up under a pyramid that uses sand in copper pipes and carbon rods? In the end, if there is an end, I think we will discover that all of this is related in some "unified" way.
@Jrader:
Try the same setup outside aligned along the north/south meridian and see what you get. Keep your polarity the same. Stab around in the ground to find the true polar n/s in your area (highest vdc reading) and then try increasing the distance between electrodes and watch the volts go up. At a certain point, around 5 feet for me, it will stabilize or begin to drop off. Let us know of your readings. Thanks.
Bill
ok finished. took me atleast 6 hours but done!
bill since you started playing with this i have a experiment for you. this homopolar motor spun very fast right? perhaps find a way to suspend it (least resistance possible.) and run it but this time do it like the origional homopolar design here is the link
http://alvelda.blogspot.com/2007/04/make-homo-polar-motor-in-five-minutes.html
now you see how he uses one wire? it has a north and south or positive and negative maybe anyways get a couple extra magnets and stick them out to the side. get the motor jump started and spinning and see if the magnets on the side will generate more spin than resistance? an old school electric demo motor on steroids! what im thinking is one side of the wire will be negative from the spinning in the magnetic flux and the other positive and by doing this simple generation of electricity maybe it will be enough to keep spinning the wire? the only thing is i havent figured out yet how to eliminate the battery from this and keep it standing unless a small plastic cylender is used? a little off topic i know but hey im here just to make free electricity and if it runs well that way maybe it will answer a question or two? and make 5 more ;D
i have some loose copper wire floating around, a radio shack special too ;D i will run some experiments trying to harness a combo wireless ground energy shortly.
ps im in GA
Hello everyone,
Sorry to butt in, but I was asked by Jeanna and Pirate88179 to post this video here:
http://s33.photobucket.com/albums/d81/emibre/?action=view¤t=Earthpower.flv
Best regards
2toxic4u
---------------
ok im under the impression we are working on practical free electricity so if i go off topic or reach something we do not want to discuss just let me know and i will try to rectify it :) and im drinking again so hopefully ill make sense.
ive looked at a couple of things related to tesla, since he was our electric father of sorts and since he had the wildest experiments (just down right fun!) maybe theres something there and heres some half baked ideas to toss around.
hopefully my picture is attatched, however in the picture i found they describe the primary source of tesla coils is the resonating of the coil. apparently it pulses the current, so if this resonating of the frequency builds up the voltage radically high then we have radient electricity coming from the coil right? in which tesla said he could light florecent bulbs? and if this is the case how about windings to harness this same electricity produced to power a high voltage low amp heater unit? like one of those steel metal filiment types that get red hot? the way i figure it (trying to do something practical just for fun) if you only get a low amount of resistance and heat from the heater you can leave it on 24/7 and heat your home at a steady temp and light it all powered by this ground source electricity. and the heater wont be too hot to touch even ;)
so ground source electricity goes into a makeshift tesla coil to power lights and resistance floor heater wirelessly. what do you think? do we have enough from our experiments to make this potentially possible?
does anyone have a lotta junk lying around? :P im thinking i might play with the tesla myself.
hey on a side note what if we use this "resonating frequency" to send a pulse back into earth? i wonder if we would get a cumulative bouce back like the swing set theory?
my head hurts..... :-\
@ 2toxic4u:
Welcome to our experiments. Locajoe started this topic and I was busy working away on magnet motors when I instantly switched my efforts to this area. I know it's a long thread but if you can take the time, read over the earlier posts. We have, thanks to Hans and others, a good history of the research and success of this device from the past. Localjoe even offered a circuit that involves a homopolar motor to boost our voltage output. My video posted stinks but at least it gives one an idea that this works. I enjoyed your video and will probably ask for help in a series arrangement of my electrodes. With what you have right now, one could assemble 100 of them and look at the volts!!!!! We are looking at coils, and Stubblefields designs and...well.....everything. I am really surprised you could not light your led. Of course, there are all sorts of them with various ratings. (I am just learning this) We also have amplifier circuits to explore, pulses, electric trees...etc. We look forward to your input and results.
@ Artic Knight:
We have several circuit designs posted here now that I would like to explore. I am still learning electronics but it appears to me that if we could use a trim pot, or something that would allow us to "tune" our pulses, we should be able to find a resonant freq. or freqs that would give us the additive effect that you describe. Stubblefield heated his home with earth batteries with an unknown device. Was it a simple resistance heater? From the description, I don't think so. It was said that it consisted of two highly polished metal spheres spaced some distance apart. I have no idea what the hell that might have been. I do like the idea of finding the resonant freq. and see what that does to the power. Power is everything. With enough power, we could run ANY type of heater we wanted. I love this topic.
Bill
perhaps it was an old old old fashioned microwave oven? ;D
um well speaking of coils heres just a rant, might lead to something tho. no productive information is available.
http://teslapress.com/blackout.html
Artic Knight:
Great article. I really liked the part where they get thousands of volts using hardly any amps. The amps have been slow in coming here with our cells...milliamps is really all we are getting thus far. There was a video I posted way back from a guy that said he was getting, I think 2 amps from his design. I don't know if that was an error on his part or if it was because he was using rods that were about 8 foot long. More surface area should equal more amps I think is what we have decided from our research. Microwave? Hmmmm..... if he was pulsing at very, very high frequencies (microwave freqs.) then I guess that might be possible. Maybe Stubblefield did not die of starvation like they think...maybe he litterally cooked himself????? Interesting idea. The M.E. that examined him said that when he walked into his cabin it was warm. Would not microwaves heat just the humans, or rather excite the water molecules in the humans and not the surrounding environment? Of course, there could have been water vapor in the air...........all this thinking gives me a headache but at least I am using my brain for something useful for a change. Ha ha.
BIll
roast man anyone? LOL well microwaves heat water but then microwave ovens run at 2.5GHZ? the same as your cordless phone in your house (i preferr 900mhz has better clarity and range) and your cordless doesnt heat you so there is definately some energy needed to do this however reflectors make me think microwaves. and ive never tried to cook myself in an oven so not sure how that feels but i would imagine it feels like sitting infront of a fire... heat radiation flying at you from a powersource just sounds like fire and radient heat to me.
any hoot. ive been geeking out over tesla coils and you guys HAVE TO SEE THIS! just some geek fun. some people get all the best toys!! http://youtube.com/watch?v=3ff_AXVlo9U
i think if you dont use the spark gap it becomes a step up wireless transformer... ill try to play with it later. note the florecents glowing or are they neons? ;D
Hey guys, you are getting close and once you get the right frequencies, I believe you will have the key to most all of everyone?s devices that are trying to be built here. I am almost sure of the need for the pulse do to the earths frequencies being retrieved as pulses. I would start with the earths frequencies first which I do believe was said to start at 7.8 and go up in multiples of that number.
I also think that Telsa was trying to transmit the frequency that is needed. Once he was shut down, I believe he figured a away to order the frequency using a TPU device.
hansvonlieven, I to am fascinated with Hutchinson?s work. His accumulation of certain crystallized fossils and the activating the with heat makes a lot of sense. The crystallized fossils order the frequency that is needed and once they are collected, they seam to stay active and I think it is because they form a magnetic field that acts as a receiver for that frequency.
I believe the same is needed for the pyramid design some are working on. The quartz sand they are using my just need to be heated to activate it and once it is heated, the design acts like a antenna.
I believe that same concept is needed with the TPU's some are building. I believe once the frequency is figured out, it is then ordered by the magnetic field causing it to over flow and force its way out of the TPU through the wiring. I am also thinking that once it becomes over flowing, it can be transferred by way of antennas. This would eliminate the need for house wiring.
Another set up was the two rod set up that has me thinking. It was said to have 73 different elements in one rod and 74 in the other. I am thinking that those elements are actually crystallized fossils like Hutchinson was referring to. We know that certain crystals attract certain frequencies and I think it is just a mater of figuring out which ones are really needed so we can duplicate them and or retrieve them from the earth.
I am new to this but I feel that I am starting to figure things out. I am starting to think that there is no such thing as electricity and that electricity is really just a frequency and or a accumulation of different frequencies.
Electrons? The whole theory behind electrons doesn't make sense to me. They say electrons are in wire and moving magnetic fields around the wire will make the electrons flow. Are you serious? If they were to say that electrons are bits of a frequency, then I could make sense of what a electron is.
My theory is that the magnetic field draws the frequencies and the larger the magnetic field, the larger accumulation of frequencies can be acquired. I believe that the movement of the magnetic field only makes the field larger and therefore attracts a larger amount of frequencies.
I am also thinking that the earth is actually a positive source and the atmosphere is a negative source. I get that theory from the certain earth fossils attracting frequencies. I am starting to think that all these laws of physics are used to throw us off from the truth and our education systems are used to brainwash us when it comes to science and physics.
This maybe idiotic but it does make sense to me. Please remember that I am a 9th grade drop out with no other education other then what I have taught myself over the years. This maybe why I have such way of to the left ideas that don?t make much sense to everyone else. I keep getting laughed at about my ideas and I cant wait to start building some designs to prove my theory's and or to prove my ignorance if that maybe the case. I wish I would have thought to study this field long ago so I could have more assurance about the way I feel about these things.
You must also realize that I stand firm on my beliefs unless I can be proven wrong and I can see it for myself and or my common sense understands how I am wrong because it may be explained to me in a way that could change my opinion.
Well I hope this makes sense and if not I hope everyone at least got some entertainment from my ignorance. I also hope no one hurts themselves from laughing to hard.
I am sure that we can all agree that energy is free and it only takes having a way to retrieve and accumulate it so we can use it on demand.
Happy Holidays to all.
Quote from: Artic_Knight on December 16, 2007, 02:36:26 AM
roast man anyone? LOL well microwaves heat water but then microwave ovens run at 2.5GHZ? the same as your cordless phone in your house (i preferr 900mhz has better clarity and range) and your cordless doesnt heat you so there is definately some energy needed to do this however reflectors make me think microwaves. and ive never tried to cook myself in an oven so not sure how that feels but i would imagine it feels like sitting infront of a fire... heat radiation flying at you from a powersource just sounds like fire and radient heat to me.
any hoot. ive been geeking out over tesla coils and you guys HAVE TO SEE THIS! just some geek fun. some people get all the best toys!! http://youtube.com/watch?v=3ff_AXVlo9U
I think if you don?t use the spark gap it becomes a step up wireless transformer... ill try to play with it later. note the florecents glowing or are they neons? ;D
Think about that. They both run off the same frequency but they use different amounts, I will call them amps of frequencies. This is the same concept Tesla had by trying to emit the frequencies in to our atmosphere. It was doing so using great amounts which is where he gets the lightning effect from. It comes out in large amounts and it is attracted to other frequencies and the largest amounts strike the earth because the earth holds most of the frequency and or frequencies he used.
It makes sense to me anyway. LOL
Sorry to have high jacked this thread as well as others with my insanity and I have decided to start a new one just for the subject of either my ignorance, insanity and or quest for figuring out what is needed and most efficient for accumulating and or storing of energy.
[removed, duplicate post]
@nightlife: I guess that a new thread would be good, since we're really focussed on trying to find a way of harvesting the earth's energy here - although it does diverge into other topics in the meantime, but we somehow manage to bring it back to topic.
@all: the copper pipe video is good, but according to me that's purely galvanic - notice the way the plastic is insulating the copper from the ground. Also the fact that he can get double the voltage by putting 2 in series indicates that it is not connected to the earth. The same voltage will be present if you were to remove the 2 rods and place them on a table (I tried it some time ago) but that's all it is - purely voltage.
I would try and set a first goal for us. Let's say getting 10 or 20 mA at 1.2 or more volts. This would allow us to use the circuit i posted earlier for a practical application: garden lights running off earth energy. We could then figure out how to scale up, but for those experimenting this would at least give us a target.
akashh, I believe the earths energy is based on frenquencies.
just got back from the hardware store and here in cumming there is definately 8 ft grounding Rods of copper and a galvanized steel i believe. the rods are about a half inch thick and perfect for hammering into the ground. they look soo beautiful! HEHEHEHE oh yea if you need some copper wire i found some bare copper nice roll of it in the welding section. no graphite rods tho :(
Quote from: akashh on December 16, 2007, 07:44:55 AM
@all: the copper pipe video is good, but according to me that's purely galvanic - notice the way the plastic is insulating the copper from the ground. Also the fact that he can get double the voltage by putting 2 in series indicates that it is not connected to the earth. The same voltage will be present if you were to remove the 2 rods and place them on a table (I tried it some time ago) but that's all it is - purely voltage.
I would try and set a first goal for us. Let's say getting 10 or 20 mA at 1.2 or more volts. This would allow us to use the circuit i posted earlier for a practical application: garden lights running off earth energy. We could then figure out how to scale up, but for those experimenting this would at least give us a target.
Hi guys,
I asked 2toxic4u to post his video here because it is a replication of the paper referred to on this thread a while ago, I think this thread.
Take a look at all 10 pages.
http://www.theverylastpageoftheinternet.com/forsale/plans/earthbattery/ebpage1.htm
On the one hand it seems purely galvanic but as he says and I experienced, if two of these cells are put in the earth as a series set up the voltage drops to ZERO (!) And I only got .7 or .9 volts from each one before I put them in series. I is too odd.
So, please let me understand you. You made 2 cells each using a copper pipe, and filled with damp earth with a zinc plug which you connected in series on an inside table and you got 3 volts?
At this moment I am watching as 2 probes stuck directly into sand wetted (only damp) with 5% salt solution show an increase in volts from 0.001, 35 minutes ago to 0.086 volts now and still rising. This is a control for the pyramid thread and I think this thread too but it is inside the house not either under the pyramid or stuck deep in the ground.
It is funny I was just wondering if my presence was doing something. Thanks Hans for that terrific quote from Stubblefield.
OOPS, not Hans but tishatang
jeanna
Remove double post
@akash and all of rest of you new to this thread... The reason some of the freq activity has stopped here , well snow in my neck of the woods..and the same in others. Anyways you guys need to read the whole thread we've stumbled across a lot of things here and there all not the same. as far as our basic earth battery bill has gotten the best results thus far with his graphite rod or carbon i cant remember which but its here upwards of 1.7 to 1.8 v and a few milliamp s. Just two rods, i use a nice zinc skrew an i mean a quarter inch diam 8 inch long zinc skrew and a peice of quarter inch copper pipe... the cells do work in series and the work better separated further from each other.. As well you need to align them with a compass to magnetic poles read this whole thread and you will see the progress thus far... My intrest lies in single line conductors and earth energy modulation as a carrier base. But i am working hard to devolp a small device for campers that will have abuilt in compass for easy alignment and you just stick it in the ground .. .no bigger than say a 20 soda bottle... with the use of that step circuit i plan to use the 5 v for a usb connector thinking that would be the most versatile thing to make for the socket. It would power either a few led's for a light or a usb socket for ipod/ cell recharging ect.
Keep the good work comming folks
Joe
Localjoe, I think you need to wrap a magnetic field around you poles while ordering certain frenquencies using a wire wrapped around the magnetic field. I believe once you do that, you will find that you will have much higher readings as well as the cure to all our energy needs.
I believe the ordering will require to be done with pulses.
@All,
Is there any place I could buy copper wire insulated with cotton or silk? I know it is antic stuff, but I need it to replicate Stubblefield coil battery as close as possible.
George
The experiment I had done was actually this: I filled a couple of flower seeder trays with earth (topsoil) and put copper & zinc (and I think i used copper/aluminium too). By putting them in series I was able to get 2 V which was enough to light an LED dimly. I was very happy, but the next day the LED was very dim and the day after it had gone out.
From my own experiments I don't remember being able to get more out of the earth by putting batteries in series, but I'll have to try again.
@localjoe - I have been following the thread from the beginning, and I do recall all the experiments that did go on. What I was trying to say is that free energy is definitely out there. However, it may take some more time to find it. Now, if we already have and can easily duplicate a small earth battery of 10 mA or 20 mA @ 1.2 volts, then we *already* have an application for all the research so far, and we can make a product / gadget that works and can be improved upon. I'd have done this already but have a broken arm and am unable to go digging/experimenting.
@ Localjoe:
Good to hear from you. Yes, it's cold here too. (27 degrees f as I write this) Almost too cold for experimenting...ha ha. Best of luck to you on your device, pretty ambitious but, not out of reach in my opinion. My leds from China have not arrived yet!!! My goal is to see how many I can light with what I have, and then, to explore a series circuit, and then, to attempt the op amp or whatever circuits that have been posted with the use of coils and pulses. I could use a little help with the series set up though. I tried it once and, although I know what series and parallel are in theory, I am not quite sure how to apply that to 4 electrodes in the ground with 2 positive and 2 neg. If I cross over and tie the left cell + to the right cell - it will be a short. Should I tie the +'s together and then the -'s and then take a reading? Or, should I put leads on all of the electrodes and bring them together on my meter? I am learning as I go here but, I have made circuits in parallel and series before so I know what that is. I just don't know how to apply that with my electrodes. Any help would be appreciated.
My original led still lights from the single cell and yes, I am using a carbon rod mail ordered from a welding supply shop here in town. I am not a chemist but graphite and carbon are very close to the same I think. I believe the carbon is more "pure" for whatever that is worth.
@ akashh:
I am just guessing but using flower pots, or trays with dirt would be leaning more toward galvanic action rather than obtaining any additional input from the telluric currents alleged to be in the earth. I am watching closely for any deterioration of my electrodes which would mean that they are being used up as in a normal battery. So far, none observed but that does not mean it is not happening. Again, I saw the best result when I aligned the electrodes with the + to the north and the - to the south on the north/south meridian which is different from magnetic north and south. How much different depends on your location on the planet. For me, here in Kentucky at my location, there is a 3 degree difference between magnetic north and polar north. I read this on the internet as part of our research and it is posted in the earlier part of the thread somewhere. It does work for me to do this however, if someone else posts results that are better east and west, then who am I to argue?
@ Jeanna:
I am also following the pyramid experiments as well. I am intrigued by the use of silica/quartz/sand as this also ties into other research being done by Hutchison and others. There is quartz in the earth all over the world as it is the number one most naturally occurring mineral on the planet. Maybe for a reason? Who knows. I read the post, I believe Hans put up (link to 10 pages or so) and I feel like 2toxic4u's video was an excellent example of a good replication of that information. I wish I lived near a beach as I would love to try my cell there and see if it would work in dry sand and just tap into any available telluric currents. That would be a great control experiment to do. Dry sand without any electrolite present...water, salt, etc.
@Artic Knight:
I have seen those grounding rods here in town and no one could tell me what type of metal they were. One guy said "copper" but it was obvious to me they were just plated on the o.d. (outside diameter) He asked how I knew that and I told him..."the price". They were like $8 and if they were solid copper would be more like $100.00. A guy in an earlier posted video used one and a copper pipe and said he was getting 2 amps!!!! I hope this is correct. I have not obtained any real amps as of yet. I do believe that with all of these great minds here, we will press on and figure this all out. Then what? Who knows.....
Bill
Also, @ Nightlife:
I agree with your theories about magnetic fields. How this might benefit us is anyone's guess at the moment. I would suggest that you attempt a simple earth battery cell and apply your ideas to it. I think you might be on to something but I am now following a "plan" based upon my past results and readings. That is what this is for, this forum, I believe. No sense in everyone doing the exact same experiments unless it is for the purpose of replicating/confirming others results. Try it and please let us know of your results. If promising, I have shifted gears before and will do so again and will follow. Thanks.
@Georgemay:
I am not sure that you would need that early example of an insulator to replicate Stubblefield's device. I don't see what would be wrong with using today's, advanced, insulated wire for this. That is what is amazing to me about all of this. Can you imagine what Tesla, Stubblefield, Helmholtz and other might do with the materials and devices available to us today? Let others more up to speed on this advise you but I don't think it would change anything for the worse, only better in my opinion.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on December 17, 2007, 12:44:11 AM
@Georgemay:
I am not sure that you would need that early example of an insulator to replicate Stubblefield's device.
Bill
Bill,
The only difference between todays and earlier insulators was ability of the moisture to penetrate it. I read somewhere that coil needs sometimes more than a week to be buried to allow for the "saturation". What saturation we don't know. That could be moisture saturation. If Stubblefield bifillar coil act as capacitor on the on the other hand (Thanks Hans for suggestion) then todays magnet's wire insulation might be to thin to allow for the proper spacing. I have seen movie on YouTube where a guy use magnet wire and sand off insulation to expose copper wire. The experiment didn't bring any significant effects.
If I won't find the right wire then the only option left would be to wind both wire bare with a fishing line or cotton string between them to act as insulator.
George
@ georgemay:
I see what you are saying. I also agree with Hans that possibly this acting as a capacitor of some sort and by "saturate" Stubblefield might have meant with electricity, building up a charge. As I have stated many times, I am not an electronics or electrical expert by any means and am still learning every day but, please correct me if I am wrong, if you have a cotton insulator that becomes wet with a conductive fluid (water) would that not just short the works as if there were no insulator at all? I know that you can buy cotton tubing in various sizes (I.D and O.D.) and it comes on a roll. We used to have some at our machining facility years ago. You could thread some of that over a bare wire to replicate the older type wire assembly. The size we had would have been perfect for covering say a 16 ga. bare wire. I can not remember what the heck we ever bought it for but we were doing some weird stuff in those days. (1975-1994) Possibly an electrical supply house could order it if you can't find it on the net.
So, maybe the cotton acts as an insulator or semi-insulator when wet and when between the conductors...presto...capacitor. As you start to make your coil, I would love to see pictures of it if you could post some.
Bill
G'day all,
I am not at all certain that the galvanic action is necessary for the operation of the coil. If it is there is a way to make the coil without having to resort to cotton sheathed wire.
You MUST use bare copper and iron wire!
Wind your two wires on a coil former one layer at a time making sure the wires don't touch.
Make up a small batch of paper mache and paint the layer with that. Leave to dry and paint again if necessary to make sure there is a layer of paper mache between the wires everywhere, wind your next layer and repeat the process. This will give you your galvanic element.
Toilet paper makes an excellent paper mache.
Hans von Lieven
Quote from: Pirate88179 on December 17, 2007, 12:35:25 AM
@ Jeanna:
My original led still lights from the single cell and yes, I am using a carbon rod mail ordered from a welding supply shop here in town.
I wish I lived near a beach as I would love to try my cell there and see if it would work in dry sand and just tap into any available telluric currents. That would be a great control experiment to do. Dry sand without any electrolite present...water, salt, etc.
Bill
Bill
What I don't get is how that LED of yours lights up.
Here is some of my experience: I was frustrated with my inabilities to follow Teslas papers a few years ago and took a high school electronics class that was open to adults, In the class I made a bunch of LED candles to learn about circuits and to use. I had to make them for 2 AAA batteries with a resistor because one 1.5v battery won't light a LED. A LED needs 1.65v sometimes more just to begin lighting. The same LED will actually burn up and char with 3 v. I think 33ma is the amperage I aimed for with full batteries but that was a mixture of lasting and brightness. (I bought my LED's from allelectronics.com. good cheap timely.
OK so how did you get that diode to start up with what you got from one cell??? This is serious new stuff, I think.
--
Good thought about the beach. I used to live near a beach. I may be able to get a friend willing to try that out.
jeanna
ok so copper plated steel sounds better to me than just strait copper :p then you have essentially a copper pipe with a iron core for a more magnetic conducting or resonating experience? damn,..... now i have to try! making a trip later i guess to lows :D on a side note if i can find some steel i might try to solder that to the pole later (depending on results) and see if wrapping iron around copper electrode helps? iron conducts magnetics which in theory is just electricity to a certain extent, so both wires soldered onto the electrode if it gets any magnetic current should i would think do a nice magnetic inductance and if theres any electrical potential in it, just add that too :-p
what kind of crazy invention am i coming up with? iron around copper 8ft pole with a crippled tesla coil haha i wonder if it will work! ohh crap im drooling...... :o
edit: oh and why bills cap and poles work? i think because somehow there is a "resonating frequency" or a modulating frequency, rather its amps or volts i think that our readings are just an average because the volt meter cannot read them that fast! i am VERY interested to see what a scope will read like the old school kind with the monochrome screen and the little dot scrolling up and down :p i loved it in school too....
the question is ... does the earth have a heart beat?
if a lightning bolt strikes in tokyo do we get a wave of electricity that bounces in a circular pattern around the world till it finally dies or meets its resistance quota?
maybe what we are getting is a constant lightning bolt trickle effect down our rods? theres a lot of metal in the earth to tap it and we need to find the sweet spot! well im out wife is waiting
@ Jeanna:
Well, I wish I could explain it to you in an intelligent manner but, I don't really know. I do know that when I first hooked up the cell with the carbon rod and magnesium block the led lit but maybe about 25% bright. Then, I soldered in a small cap (which is made in China and I cant read the specs, about the size of a hearing aid battery) which I shorted out by getting the polarity wrong on the first try. I tested it....dead...no volts. When I hooked that up the led was now maybe 50-60% bright and, it was charging the cap while lit. After about 30 minutes, I removed the "circuit" and brought it inside. The led lights off that cap and, still does today even though it has been weeks since I had it hooked up to the cell. No, I did not leave it burning for all this time, total time illuminated is probably in the neighborhood of 4-6 hours. what I am really amazed at is that the cap does not appear to "leak" down like I have read that they do. When my new leds come in from China, I want to see how many I can light up with, and without a larger cap. I am still trying to figure out how to wire the cell in series for two of them. I know it should be simple but, I can't seem to get it. As I said in a previous post, there are all types of leds with different ratings. I paid $5 for this ONE at Radio Shack and now have ordered 40+ from China for $8 which includes shipping!!!!!! (That's total cost) The rating on the box of the led says..."1.7 volts, 20 mA, 3000mcd." I don't even know what the mcd is except I think it refers to the brightness? I also don't know if 1.7volts is the minimum or the maximum or how they rate these things. I can light it from a single AA bat. (1.5 vdc) but it is not as bright as when hooked to the cell outside. I have to say that Artic Knight makes some good points about the possible limitations on modern digital voltmeters, ammeters, etc. My guess is that if I use a larger capacitor and the same thing happens where it will charge while lighting, I believe I can get 2-5 leds burning, maybe more. I guess this shows what a boring person I am because this is my idea of fun. Ha ha.
Artic Knight:
Did you see the video near the beginning of this thread with the guy with the ground rod and a large, bright led running off it? (He used it to light his bathroom at night as a nightlight) If not, check it out. You may be really able to pull some amps out of the earth like he said he did. I live in an apartment and if I drove an 8 foot rod into the earth, I don't know how I would ever remove it. Of course, when I move, I guess I could just hammer it down below the surface? I seriously doubt that you will be able to solder anything to the grounding rod as it will act as one very large heat sink and draw off the heat faster than you could add it. That's why I fashioned a ring out of copper strand wire and tinned it making the inside diameter just the right size to slip over (friction fit) the carbon rod. I know they make grounding straps that are kind of like a hose clamp that attaches to the ground rods so a wire can be attached, you could try that. And yes, the earth does have a resonant frequency, I have seen several number as to what it is but it is very low. Do you think this is "fooling" the capacitor into charging while having a load on it? Maybe it is like charging the cap with an ac component? Or pulsed dc? So many questions, so many experiments to perform. You are right about the scope, I would love to see what it looks like with this voltage and current. I don't even really know how to use one but I will learn. Someone posted that I could rent one which would be cool, as soon as I get some money.
Just a thought...what if the earth is a very large capacitor? I mean, we have an isolated body that consists of both conducting and insulating materials all mixed together don't we? Continually being charged by millions of lightning strikes a day and....what about all of those electrons being pumped into the "ground" from everyone's household circuits?? And, on the battery side, we have a planet that is 3/4 water but, not just water, seawater or....an electrolight. So, it may be both a battery and a capacitor?????
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on December 17, 2007, 06:58:53 PM
@ Jeanna:
Well, I wish I could explain it to you in an intelligent manner but, I don't really know. I do know that when I first hooked up the cell with the carbon rod and magnesium block the led lit but maybe about 25% bright. Then, I soldered in a small cap (which is made in China and I cant read the specs, about the size of a hearing aid battery) which I shorted out by getting the polarity wrong on the first try. I tested it....dead...no volts. When I hooked that up the led was now maybe 50-60% bright and, it was charging the cap while lit.
It is not sposed to be able to do that. When I did the LED off a cap in a self designed experiment in that class, I had to unhook it and juice the cap then rehook it. because I was told that the cap would let the juice out the way it came in only. I had this question when I saw that video too. I wondered how big a set up that guy had to power so many leds in his bathroom.
I think this is potentially something really big. well, subtle too.
I think it was this thread where I got the link to a guy talking about radionics and short wave radios coming from the earth where the signal got better over time. etc. subtle and very big too.
Quote
After about 30 minutes, I removed the "circuit" and brought it inside. The led lights off that cap and, still does today even though it has been weeks since I had it hooked up to the cell. No, I did not leave it burning for all this time, total time illuminated is probably in the neighborhood of 4-6 hours.
wow! Maybe you could see how long it will run if you leave it on.
Quote
what I am really amazed at is that the cap does not appear to "leak" down like I have read that they do.
Not really, they actually recharge and you have to be really careful with the big ones because you can get a big shock when you thought the thing was drained and it can last for a very long time. (I wanna say years.) but they don't discharge by themselves.
Quote
When my new leds come in from China, I want to see how many I can light up with, and without a larger cap. I am still trying to figure out how to wire the cell in series for two of them. I know it should be simple but, I can't seem to get it.
You should just solder the short leads to the long leads and chain them. Use LEDs from the same batch because if some have fewer atoms of doping than others some will take the juice and not the rest. I think parallel is the ticket for a string, but I never tried it.
Quote
As I said in a previous post, there are all types of leds with different ratings. I paid $5 for this ONE at Radio Shack and now have ordered 40+ from China for $8 which includes shipping!!!!!! (That's total cost) The rating on the box of the led says..."1.7 volts, 20 mA, 3000mcd." I don't even know what the mcd is except I think it refers to the brightness? I also don't know if 1.7volts is the minimum or the maximum or how they rate these things. I can light it from a single AA bat. (1.5 vdc) but it is not as bright as when hooked to the cell outside.
So, 1.7v is the minimum start up, but don't pay any attention to that because you are invoking some kind of (magic) just ignore that.
20mA is how many mA the light needs to shine its brightest. I think more than this won't make it brighter??
3000mcd is minicandelas or microcandelas for its maximum brightness.
One thing really interesting about leds is that if there is less juice they will use less. I had a rack of experimental candles going for about a month 24 x 7. Finally I couldn't see the light anymore and stopped the experiment.
Please describe for me how exactly you have put this together. I want to make one. I have lots of leds left over from that class and I need some outdoor lights and I'd love to make them with earth batteries and caps. It is too dark too often and my solar path light doesn't glow enough.
Quote
I fashioned a ring out of copper strand wire and tinned it making the inside diameter just the right size to slip over (friction fit) the carbon rod.
Is that one lead? what did you attach to the copper or was it magnesium that you used? then which side of the cap? + or - and where did you attach the led? eesh! please describe.
So many question is right. Who needs to sleep? ;D
and oh dear I was thinking the earth was a big electric motor not a capacitor, maybe a pot cap? more when there is a sun spot.
jeanna
Jeanna:
This is the third time I have attempted to post this!! It keeps telling me I have already posted this but it does not post it so..I re-write it and...it says I have already posted this. So...one more time.
I am trying to post 3 pics. The first is just a pic of the magnesium block (minus) in the ground with a jumper wire clipped on to it. The second is the carbon rod and copper wire ring (postiive) and the third is the led circuit. The red wire, + comes off the + side of the cap. and will reach the + side of the led but is only soldered to the cap for now. The blue wire comes off the - side of the cap and is soldered to the - side of the led. when I want to light the led I just move the red wire to the + led lead and presto. When attached to the cell the clip from the carbon rod jumper keeps the red wire and the led lead together along with the copper ring. The - side of the cap is attached to the jumper coming off the mag. block (-). If you watch my video maybe it will make more sense to you. If not, let me know and I will answer any questions you may have.
Jeanna:
Now that I got the pics up, finally, I will try to answer some of your other points. Actually, the second pic. was supposed to be the rod but was the circuit but...oh well.
Yes, I read on the Dr. Stiffler topic (I think ) about the batch thing with leds. Thanks for pointing that out. Of course, with the quality control in China, or lack there of, there is not telling what I am going to get anyway.
I know how to wire the leds in series, that is not what I meant. I want to know how to wire the cells in series as I am building another cell next to the first one and I want to get like 3.6 volts or so out of it in series. It is not like sticking D-cells in a flashlight, I tried it that way and it was a dead short. I am sure I am doing something wrong because the way I did it would not have even worked with 2 car batteries and I know they can be hooked in series as well.
Thanks for the warning on the larger caps. I already know that. Want to know how I know????? Learned the hard way.. ha ha. A TV technician friend of mine many years ago warned me, too late as it turnes out, to unplug my set overnight before working on it. He said the caps would discharge overnight. They did. (after I did it his way after my shock) So, I was thinking that these smaller ones would do the same. Another guy told me this was called "bleed down". That is why I am amazed that it still has more volts reading on it now than I was getting with the cell. More experimentation needed.
The guy in the video with the led in the bathroom used only one led. You can see it in the video near the start. I think he mispoke himself possibly when he said he was getting 2 amps...maybe 2 milliamps? I know it is hard when you are the camera man, director, actor and producer as I have mispoken a few times in my vids. I hope he really did get 2 amps.
The small cap I am using came out of a shake flashlight. (you shake it to charge it) I sacrificed it as it only cost $5 and I also got an led, and a great coil and a very strong neo magnet out of it as well. Let me know if you have any more questions. I very much appreciate all of your input. Thanks.
Bill
QuoteI want to make one. I have lots of leds left over from that class and I need some outdoor lights and I'd love to make them with earth batteries and caps. It is too dark too often and my solar path light doesn't glow enough.
OOPS Sorry localjoe. I remember that is your idea. Itsagoodone!
don't worry. I won't make a business out of it. (I already did one business thats enough!)
jeanna
Quote from: Pirate88179 on December 17, 2007, 09:43:33 PM
Let me know if you have any more questions.
Bill
I will have more but I need to eat some dinner first.
I wanted to get this link to you.
http://www.borderlands.com/newstuff/research/superior_radionics.htm
also
http://www.theverylastpageoftheinternet.com/forsale/plans/earthbattery/
It was here before. I had the experience you had trying to put these earth cells in series. I don't know how one would do it either. One or the other of these pages addresses that you will not be able to add to the voltage by putting them in series. You just get zero. So, you and I both got zero by that so, see if the ideas of the array might help. Sorry, I need to eat. I will try to find it if you can't now I know there are 2 of us that got zero, I know I am doing this OK.
jeanna
bill
its hard to predict what the earth will do, it has all the elements we use today in our batteries antennas solar pannels and capaciters. its got bio electrical generators and god knows what else!
my theory is the earth itself will not make much electricity but will store it well and collect it well. i think that the major influence on our experiments thus far some proven some theory is that the lightning is striking the earth in china and its creating a pulse over here but that our amp meters cannot read it to its fullest extent. how many lightning bolts strike the earth any given moment? LOL yea enough. so i think your capacitor is getting charged by a pulsed dc current from the earth and that our .9 or 1.5 volts at 2 miliamp is just an average. im willing to bet we would see some great stuff in a storm !
now as for a capacitor. i learned from the web (wiki pedia) its like a bucket with 2 spouts, theres the in spout high on the bucket and it has a flow control to stop the water coming in after it reaches that high inlet spout. then theres the outlet spout low on the bucket, with ac current or pulsed dc, it will be a fluctuating input into the bucket, it gets full it gets half full it gets full it gets half full but because the out is in the bottom of the bucket it remains constant.
whats the capacitor rated? 22 farad? it should say on it. and i believe the voltage out is what ever the voltage in.
now for the pair (capacitor and led) since we have a 1.5 v in on the capacitor we get that out. its not the full 1.7 so its not a fully bright led. with the capacitor our variable amps is now constant. before it was averageing too low to be a full load for the led but now with the capacitor its a full load and its much brighter. hope this helps if not check wiki pedia they got a really good article!
on a side note my wife is being very resistant twards my experiments, looks like im going to have to please the gods with some house work to get what i want :P
Quote from: Artic_Knight on December 17, 2007, 11:17:32 PM
now for the pair (capacitor and led) since we have a 1.5 v in on the capacitor we get that out. its not the full 1.7 so its not a fully bright led. with the capacitor our variable amps is now constant. before it was averageing too low to be a full load for the led but now with the capacitor its a full load and its much brighter. hope this helps if not check wiki pedia they got a really good article!
The thing is Arctic_Knight that the led should not even begin to light unless there is 1.7v.. Try it. put a led between the ends of a AA battery and see. the only times you can buy a led flashlight or candle or whatever that has only 1, 1.5v battery is when the engineer has added a chip that makes the led flash so fast that the eye misses it.
It is possible that this is what is happening with Bill's circuit. but I don't know. (I mean flashing fast) Given that a diode is a one way entity and a cap is one way in and same way out, I can't get how the charge is circling around to keep the diode lit.
Another thing is that a capacitor has a bizarre speed of filling and emptying. There is a curve that describes each function. It fills up to 66% full very quickly then continues to fill slower and slower for EVER... Then The same curve happens when it empties 66% right away then lots of time to finish emptying. The engineers use this and have most of the activity happening in the first part of the curve both ways to approximate something smooth enough to be imperceptable.
Wow, I didn't realize I had learned so much in that class!
Hope it helps.
jeanna
Artic Knight:
Very good explanation of the capacitor I believe. So, if I read you correctly, the pulsed dc and/or any ac component will not drive the led as well as with the cap which "smooths out" the pulses and feeds back straight dc. This makes a lot of sense to what I am seeing here. I do believe you are correct that a cap. will max out on the input voltage, I have read this in my electronics books. My question is this about caps which I can not seem to find anywhere. What do they do to the amps/milliamps? If you put in 2 mA over time is that what you get out? Or, do they "build up" somehow? It seems to me they should be constant like the volts but I believe I am getting more power out of the cap than what was put in. I can not read the markings on this small cap, but you see it in the picture. I have another larger on that says it is " 200 volt 820 uf" It is almost the size of a "D" cell battery. I want to hook this one up to see what happens. Maybe it won't do anything other than store more juice to burn the led even longer once removed from the system. Your ideas on the earth are right in step with what I believe. I wish I had the balls to be out there in an electrical storm with my meter but, something (survival instinct?) tells me it is not a good idea to mess with well grounded conductors in those types of conditions...ha ha. Did you tell your wife that you are trying to help the world by participating in projects like this? Well, my ex-wife didn't care anything about stuff like that. You need to keep her happy.
Jeanna:
I read fully the second link when it was posted earlier and I will now read the first one. Thanks. I am also learning Google Sketch up so that I can post a diagram of my series attempts so maybe some of the electronics people can point me in the right direction. Did the pictures I posted help you to see what I am doing any better? I don't have much time these days for experiments and the weather is cold but, I will make some time and brave the weather here at Ice Station Zebra for the good of the project. Just wish my leds would get here already.
Bill
Jeanna:
My led will light off of one AA battery. I tried it that way to make sure it was working correctly and that I had the polarity right. It was not as bright as it is on my cell outside, even before I added the capacitor. Hope this helps.
Bill
Bill
does this
Quoteand I want to get like 3.6 volts or so out of it in series.
mean that your carbon magnesium is giving you 1.8volts? I missed that because I missed a bunch of pages while I was trying to get up to speed on that pyramid page. !
I want some of that stuff if it is.
I remember your waiting for the carbon rod (I took a welding class last month and I can probably get some from the teacher) but I don't remember the magnesium. It looks like a brick. I am sorry if you covered this already. Where does one get that or what is it called?
jeanna
Bill
Quote
My led will light off of one AA battery.
How amazing. I wonder how radio shak did that.
cool.
jeanna
bill and jenna,
the only thing i can figure is that the voltage is higher than the amp meter reads and same for the amperage, however its pulsed, that explains why the capaciter can keep it steady (constant discharge until empty). capaciters are good for when the voltage or current is not even, like ac or from a hand crank generator like bills savaged flashlight (i have one too) in bills case the flash light would recieve pulsed dc current spuratically and needed to be stored (arm would get tired fast trying to shake that fast enough to keep constant light!) so really it just smothes things out. but it has its limits. as jenna said it will reach a majority charge and then basically stop accepting any charg at all. but be careful, if the pulse exceeds the capacitors ability to accept and stor a charge it will blow the cap, like a fire cracker! seriously! its fun but can be expensive entertainment! LOL
about those 8 foot rods, i want to use them but im not starting with them, once they are in the ground i can only imagine they are impossible to pull out :P would be bad for experimenting unless we had a generally good idea how we wanted them :P but i bet they will double our amps! maybe more considering they will be deeper and there might be some multiplier effect.... who knows? after all the top soil is very different from the next layer.. i think its 100's of feed down to next layer tho... god i wish i paid attention in geography now :P
heres a little chemistry lesson.
the more water that is between the electrodes the more resistance we will have for our battery because all the electricity potential in the battery area will want to produce hydrogen and oxygen by splitting the water and it takes energy to do that so resistance. if it rains we are probobly screwed. but on a side note, i obtained a radical increase in electricity out put by "charging" my quartz cell batteries.
salt water + sand = .04 volt
salt water + sand + charge from car battery = .75 volt
remember the current is reversed when charging so if you try this put the positive battery head to the negative earth battery head. this might give you a great "jump start" to your battery bill :D
i seen the video on that dude with the leds in the bathroom, i cant imagine what would be giving him all that current unless his appliances are leaking! or maybe he had a thunderstorm near by? dunno, but one amp is to say the least going to be hard for us. and making any useful current out of 2 volt one amp is going to be tougher. my ionic breeze takes 6 watts an hour and its the least hungry device i think i have! and using more of these cells will eventually become more pain than gain. after all how many people wants to walk through a yard of metal spikes? we have to limit the use of them. and find a way to generate some good current.... or tricks around it. i still want to see what my half brained half crippled tesla wireless amp is going to do. probobly nothing usefull.. but what else am i going to do with all this wire? :D
if i can light some florecents from it i would be... well crazy happy! but hey maybe we can get this amped or something so we can make free non solar yard lights for a 3 watt halogen bulb? that would be really cool too! i wonder if they come in 3 watts? hey bill feel like another experiment? :P
The current produced is highest when the two metals are most widely separated from each other in the electropotential series, and when the material nearer the positive end is to the north, while that at the negative end is towards the south. The plates, one copper and another iron or carbon, are connected above ground by means of a wire with as little resistance as possible. In such an arrangement, the electrodes are not appreciably chemically corroded, even when they are in earth saturated with water, and are connected together by a wire for a long time.
It had been found that to strengthen the current, it was most advantageous to drive the northerly electropositive electrode deeper into the medium than the southerly electrode. The greatest currents and voltages were obtained when the difference in depth was such that a line joining the two electrodes was in the direction of the magnetic dip, or magnetic inclination. When the previous methods were combined, the current was tapped and utilized in any well-known manner.
In some cases, a pair of plates with differing electrical properties, and with suitable protective coatings, were buried below the ground. A protective or other coating covered each entire plate. A copper plate could be coated with powered coke, a processed carbonaceous material. To a zinc plate, a layer of felt could be applied. To use the natural electricity, earth batteries fed electromagnets, the load, that were part of a motor mechanism.
---------------------------
it would appear that we are following this verbatim. so in that respect, shall we try an electric motor? i would imagine a special electric motor with an iron core at the windings would be most effecient for pulsed dc and usually not hard to find (old style from rc cars)
i just looked at stubblefields wound battery and its very interesting, we are dealing with what scientists think is magnetic currents (doubt that since magnetic currents have to move to generate electricity) whats interesting is there is an iron bolt through the middle, a coil of wire around that bolt and another coil around that coil (the two coils seperated) it looks like the bolt is intended to be exposed and if thats the case i would like to see it aligned with the bolt tip to top north to south. so the magnetic current flows through the bolt :D what do you guys think?
i bet i could get away with that here :P i think ill try it :D
Hi Arctic night
Quoteso the magnetic current flows through the bolt what do you guys think?
i bet i could get away with that here i think ill try it
yes, please try it.
I just got up to speed here. I apologise for the uninformed comments I have made.
I think I stopped looking in around the time that rude guy was around.
I will be away for a couple of days.
But i will check in on thursday
and yes, please try it.
Bill,
I watched your videos. I think I get it. It is an interesting and beautifully simple circuit. bravo!!
I will try some of this when I get back.
jeanna
You all should read the comments from the "What is elctricity" thread in the half baked ideas forum. My conclusion may have the answer to your problems here.
@nightlife
I like your ideas man but unless they directly apply to your exp it doesent help much.
Ok folks when i said they could be connected in series... i ment additive voltage but not in the hookup sense were use too... as opposed to putting carbon to zinc then carbon to zinc making 2 cells
only connect one lead from 1 of each metal to your load. the reamaing copper or zinc in the ground connect to other metal of the same so for instance copper to copper to load and zinc to zinc to load thats what gave me the results... sorry for not being clear earlier... Ive had a lot going on. And as far as anyone devolping a device similar.... Its open source keep it that way, and if you try to patent it i do have lawyers in the family.... this shit is staying free . I had a guy recently messge me and ask why i didnt want to patent my camping device idea to make money... And i told him once its finished and compacted.... its going to be freely sent to as many places as i have time and money . But at no charge... ususally has the effect of people being happy and sharing... Hopefully all works out well. all i have to say is if you could charge your phone ipod ect anywhere you could stick this thing in the ground ... and have a light... it would cool real cool. Dam you mintyboost for starting a revolution.
Joe
PS at this point were still dealing with replications not fine tuning so any of the frequencey ideas i would appreciate if left till later... once we have the basics then we can use coils and all there inductive properties. But for now we need to find our best arrangement of electrodes and determine if the amperage will be high engough to run the boost circuit. Thanks again folks.
Joe
The current produced is highest when the two metals are most widely separated from each other in the electropotential series, and when the material nearer the positive end is to the north, while that at the negative end is towards the south. The plates, one copper and another iron or carbon, are connected above ground by means of a wire with as little resistance as possible. In such an arrangement, the electrodes are not appreciably chemically corroded, even when they are in earth saturated with water, and are connected together by a wire for a long time.
It had been found that to strengthen the current, it was most advantageous to drive the northerly electropositive electrode deeper into the medium than the southerly electrode. The greatest currents and voltages were obtained when the difference in depth was such that a line joining the two electrodes was in the direction of the magnetic dip, or magnetic inclination. When the previous methods were combined, the current was tapped and utilized in any well-known manner.
In some cases, a pair of plates with differing electrical properties, and with suitable protective coatings, were buried below the ground. A protective or other coating covered each entire plate. A copper plate could be coated with powered coke, a processed carbonaceous material. To a zinc plate, a layer of felt could be applied. To use the natural electricity, earth batteries fed electromagnets, the load, that were part of a motor mechanism.
_________
@ joe
ok the information above is a repost however i believe that will most likely hold true for our best results that we should begin using for reproduction. i will give it a test at a later time when i can but i strongly believe thats going to be our base :)
@ Bill
bill i had a crazy idea that the voltage and current your reading strait from the volt meter might be only half of what it actually is, either that or its the best we have but its pulsed? either way i think you should measure from the cap to the other pole and see what you get. bypass the diode for this.
PS: rumor has it Diodes are photovoltaic. so if your diode is holding a charge check to see if it is generating a current!
@ all
it appears here that the basic setup is to have the positive pole or plate an inch or two deeper then the negative. also they should be kept atleast 3 feet appart, according to what i have read the farther the better per the telegraph people. they seem to need to be just slightly off from magnetic north and we also want the most dissimilair metals possible and apparently as bill discovered a big fat cap to smooth things over!.
if i missed anything let me know :) im taking notes hehehe.
@artic Yea most of that info is dead on but it seems you copied it out of a wiki or a patent i recognized the wording. Well additionally i found this to be true and i think bill did too ... the results stay the same if you put your pipe in parallel to the ground about 6-12 inches down so ___________________________Earth
horizontal
___________________________
{___________________________} COPPER PIPE
You still missed what i said as well in my post. you can take 3 peices of copper and 3 peices of zinc and hook like metals together think parallel buss on a battery bank so the load is only powered by one set of leads from the outer or inner most peices of copper and zinc.. well in my case.
@ Bill idea struck me for you to try this , Take your carbon and hook a peice of copper to it with jumper and take your zinc screw or whatever neg you decide to use and put another peice of that metal to it. this is basicly the same as what i described above but i wanted to see if using 2 different things in the positive case made it better or worse. If the weather permits :)
your right about the copying part joe, its strait out of the wiki for earth batteries, but it seems to be dead on from what we are doing thats why i copied. i think its going to prove to be the best thing available since those old school boys knew what they were doing for the most part. i think the wiki is going to have the best method, and from there we are going to have to tweak it in wierd ways to get home current.
but we were talking about a standard method i thought so :) it was just my thought.
@ All:
I don't have much time to post now and will address the earlier posts after a while. I just wanted to say a few things. The Wiki stuff I believe I posted on or about page three of this topic and have been following that ever since. That is why I try to stress the POLAR north south alligned with the MERIDIAN which is way different from magnetic north. And my angle from the bottom of the magnesium block (Which Jeanna, is a fire starting block you can get at any camping supply place for about $4.) to the bottom of the carbon rod about 4 feet away is about 60 degrees. Probably too much of an angle to be ideal, I am hoping to find a larger, longer magnesium pipe or tube that I can place deeper. My best volts thus far is 1.8 and I agree with Joe who said a long time ago that this was probably pulsed dc of some kind. I also very much agree with Artic Knight's thoughts on why the capacitor is working like it is. (I did find a small marking that said "22 F" on the side of it.) That can't be 22 Farads can it? That thing is so small. I think that so many people believe this is just galvanic action they pass this by. If Joe is correct about pulsed dc with possibly an ac component, we might be able to do all kinds of things as this progresses. We have better materials and more efficient circuits and...transistors to play with than Mr. Stubblefield and the others had. Once I get my reports caught up from today's surveillance cases, I will get back on and address the past few pages of questions and ideas. Oh also, yes open source all the way for me as well. I have seen some on this and other forums that, after getting a lot of good minds to help them along...delete all of their posts and run to the patent office. And I'll bet they didn't name everyone that helped them on the patent either. Patents are a waste of time and money in my opinion based on experience. Free energy should be just that....free. Of course, a little fame might be ok. Ha ha. I'll see you all later on here. Keep up all of the good work. See what you started here Joe?????? Cheers.
Bill
G'day Bill and all,
Checking for AC or pulsed DC is really easy, you don't need any sophisticated instruments.
Simply feed your input into say an audio transformer, you know the miniature things you can buy at electronic stores for a couple of bucks. If you get any electricity at all on the secondary you have the proof.
Hans von Lieven
im not sure about plain magnesium but from what i read its a common alloy for automotive aluminum.
Quote from: Localjoe on December 18, 2007, 02:18:16 PM
You still missed what i said as well in my post. you can take 3 peices of copper and 3 peices of zinc and hook like metals together think parallel buss on a battery bank so the load is only powered by one set of leads from the outer or inner most peices of copper and zinc.. well in my case.
Hi localjoe,
First I want to say I appreciate how you are running this thread. Firm and polite.
now, I just bought a pipe cutter. I plan to cut my 24" pipe into 3, 8" pieces and solder them together as you recommend. I will also solder the zincs together . I am planning to use copper wire for the connecting wire and tin antimony solder (plumbing solder instead of electronic solder) to make the connections. I am seeing a lot of different metals here and I am not sure, but I will do it, I will do it as much like your drawing as I can.
Then I will report.
Quote
Checking for AC or pulsed DC is really easy, you don't need any sophisticated instruments.
Simply feed your input into say an audio transformer, you know the miniature things you can buy at electronic stores for a couple of bucks. If you get any electricity at all on the secondary you have the proof.
Hans, I need some help with this one. Please explain what the input would be and how I put this audio transformer into my (or Bills, for that matter,) circuit.
And how does the proof work? What would the AC look like and what would the DC look like?
------------
I just mail-ordered some parts and I will make a copy of Bills circuit with my metals, then after I get his materials together, I will use his cricuit using the same materials. These both seem very promissing.
As wet and windy as it can be here in the Northwest the ground is rarely frozen and I can continue to hammer pipes into the ground for a while now! ;D
jeanna
It's simple jeanna,
In order to generate a current in the secondary the primary needs to be fed with pulsed DC or AC. If you feed DC into the primary nothing happens in the secondary.
Look up how transformers work, its all in there.
Hans von Lieven
@ Hans:
That's a brilliant idea!!! If ANY voltage shows up on the secondary it must be pulsed!!! I have not seen the cheap audio transformers around. I am sure radio shack has them but, at least at this store, if you don't know exactly what you are looking for, they are not much help. What or how is the audio transformer used? What I mean to ask is....is this device used for hi-fi equipment? Or some other application? If I can identify one I will try it. Excellent!!!
@ Joe:
Here is the problem with what you propose. I tried two "positive" metals and two "negetive" metals and guess what? It makes a subcell between the two dissimilar metals and then shorts. I tried this a while back when first trying to up the volts using series. I did not have two exact metals for + and -. Now, what I think will work is your idea to tie say 3 positive metals of the same type and then have 3 negetive metals of the same type and tie them to a load. This may not up the volts but should be seen by the earth as a much larger single north and south and therefore maybe up the amps, or milliamps. I will try this. If my explanation does not make any sense, let me know and I will try to explain it better. It's like if I use carbon and copper for the plus side, the carbon becomes plus and the copper becomes minus. Thereby creating a subcell situation. But hey, my leds came today so I have something new to play with. I will try your idea of tying an "array" of + and - together to see what happens.
@ Jeanna:
I was playing around with my larger capacitor this afternoon (inside) and it performs like you said it should. I charged it with a D cell for a few moments and, it lit an led but only for a second and very bright. It seems it dumped the volts out all at once. What type of cap is my small one that does not do that? I would like to get the same type only larger. I don't see anything in the specs on them that would tell how fast it discharges. Also, would putting a resistor of the proper value in line slow down this voltage dumping? Back to my electronics books to see if I can figure this out. If you or anyone can tell me, I would appreciate it. And yes Jeanna, that guy giving everyone a hard time was banned by Stefan for raising hell on Dr. Stiffler's thread. It was a shame as he appeared to be an intelligent fellow. (Not a shame he was banned, a shame he could not contribute in a positive manner) Joe evidently knows a lot about computer systems so if anyone else steps out of line, he might just make them disappear into the world of ones and zeros.
I will check out Hans's idea (which is way better than waiting for an ocilloscope to show up at my door) and experiment with a few other things as well. By the way, if there is voltage in the secondary on the audio transformer it should be higher than input right? (if it is pulsed) So, we could still use this device to boost our volts. (probably cuts the milliamps though per Ohm's law)
Bill
@Bill
Yea your dead on i said trying that config earlier in the post like the pic shows the idea i had for you was just an idea to see if it worked so thanks for trying even tho it didnt work. Theres snow everywhere here..... The config with the three metals of the same on either side worked and showed mixed results none worse but higher voltage in some cases for me.
Joe
@Bill,
These are the little transformers they use in cheap transistor radios, but if you have any old transformer lying around it will do, I only suggested these because they are dirt cheap.
Hans
@ Hans
Ive got one here its just this frozen white powder problem everywhere outside.... Either one of them C Eye A jets lost some of their product en route at high altitude or were having a nice snow storm .. I'm leaning towards the later tho :)
Joe
I used to have this problem when I was a youngster. Growing up in mountainous country in Germany in the winter is an experience just like you are having now. :-)
Thank God the only place where I have seen that white shit you are talking about for many years now has been in the fridge, where it belongs.
Hans
Yea theres snow everywhere and don't mind the other comment. It's just i feel like our country is acting like that kid your parents wanted you to stay away from when you were a kid. More and more scandalous affairs in America ... Just plane embarrassing .
Joe
And that stupid Al Gore wants to STOP global warming.
Hans
I posted this in the 2012 fourm but people need to know this planley and pass the word along.
Why can scientists just come out and say hey ... The artic is melting... India is getting snow and the oldest folks there say theve never had snow in india, the us is getting colder... All these things are due to a magnetic pole shift... and no i dotn mean the south pole is now the north pole i mean there axis is getting skewed and is goin to cover different parts of the world . So in English OUR MAGNETIC POLES ARE SHIFTING AND CAUSING CLIMATE CHANGE THIS IS SPEEDING UP. SO next time someone says hey there about that global warming or global cooling.. Tell them why its happening. All this 2012 doomsday shit is nuts the public needs to know that there is a way to evaluate star charts to anticipate this magnetic shift and thats what the pyramids and some of the great incan and myan monuments probably wanted to point us to.Meaning the calender and the zodiac . I think humanity has already done this a time or two....Hopefully third times a charm.... just go with it.
Joe
some scientists did comment on the magnetic polar shift, what we know now as our magnetic north used to be our magnetic south. according to the scientists i seen on the discovery channel this has happened and been recorded in the earth setiment layers a dozen times. they say that its a normal fluctuation just like the ice caps melting. but they also say our green house gasses are not helping :-p
bill, something to look at with your other cell and why it held a charge, i remember some talk about leds being photovoltaic, or generating small amounts of electricity. check it out, maybe its why the cell maintained a charge?
@ All:
Global (some parts) warming is real. MAN-MADE global warming is a farce! As some respected scientist have said...if it is man caused than man can stop it, and guess what? We can't. From what I have read the sun, which operates in 11 year cycles is in a low (supposed to be) cycle right now. The problem is, this low cycle is very, very much hotter and with more activity than in the past 5 "hot" cycles. And, mars is heating up the same as the earth. Exactly the same amount. Well, I don't see SUVs or coal burning plants on mars, so common sense tells me the one thing the earth has in common with mars is....you guessed it...the sun!!!! Remember Greenland? It's on all the maps right? Well, Greenland used to be GREEN and farm land. Now, it is like artic conditions on most of it. The earth is dynamic and has changed, and will change. We just need to adapt. Now I am against wasting energy and resources which is one of the reasons I am here on this site. I don't polute and wish others did not either. But Al Gore is full of shit, plain and simple. I am just surpirsed to see so many uninformed people following him like lemmings. He has 5 mansions and just the one near me, which is in TN has a nearly $5,000/month electric bill. That is one of his houses!!!! A Nashville radio station got one of his bill and published it. So, he wants us to use candles while he flies in his jet and wastes energy. So much for my rant. Forgive me.
@ Hans:
Thanks for the clarification. So, the best way to get one of the transformers might be to purchase a small $3 transistor radio and use it for parts? If so, I will do that.
@ Joe:
Yes, I was once a geology major in college and pole shifts (magnetic) are well documented throughout history and should be well known. The news makes it sound like the end of the world for crying out loud. Oh, and I love when people say.."We need to save the planet." I have news for them. The planet was here long before man arrived, and will most likely be here long after. What they should say is we need to save humanity. My response would be "Why?"
@ Artic Knight:
I mostly run my led circuit at night so I doubt if it is gaining anything from the photovoltaic aspect. But, has anyone researched to see how efficient, or not, leds are in this area? I guess I could stick one in the sunshine and hook up my meter to it. I was trying to see why my small capacitor sends out the volts in a slow manner while the larger one dumps it all at once it seems. I have read in Popular Mechanics that Sears (who never make their own tools) is now selling cordless screwdrivers that only run for 2 hours but, charge up fully in less than 5 minutes! No batteries, they are using capacitors. Interesting isn't it?
I now have my led shipment and I am looking at them not knowing what to do next.
Bill
well if you have a bread board or one of those electronics test boards that are plug and play (radio shack) then you could connect the curcuit and then add the leds in series uh wait i think i mean parellel and see how many get used :D
too brain dead to know which is needed at the moment, series or parallel
im interested to see the current you are pulling with the use of that cap, and to see if a larger cap will reveal theres more current than your currently tapping.
@ Artic Knight:
I don't have a bread board but I know what they are and a small one should not be too much money, I will look into it. I think they need to be in parallel, but, I'm never sure of anything in electronics, ha ha. Just a quick thought. I will check on the power output of these various leds by light input to see what is there but, in following the Dr. Stiffler topic and the micro tpu topic, what if when all those leds are illuminated some of them begin to generate some volts from the light of either themselves or the other leds. I am not saying that it would be self powered at all just thinking that if a single led take x current to run, then maybe 10 won't take 10x but something less, maybe 6x because they start to contribute a little back due to photovoltaic properties. Could this be possible?
Maybe I could go to Sears and try to see what kind of caps they are using for the screw gun? They sound like they would have to release the power slowly over time like my small cap and not dump all the power in like 2 seconds. Heck, if I could charge up one of them for a day on the cell outside, who knows what I could hook up to it?
Bill
yaknow Bill,
What I think is that the cap you first used has some kind of resistor built into it. There are so many really creative people working in electronics anything is possible.
If you were to create a circuit that has a resistor in line with the cap and that continues to have the light attached in a way that looks parallel like the one that you have already wired, you might get the same bizarre result. It isn't how the books tell you to do it.
I'm on my way outside to try the battery again. It finally stopped storming here and I will report later
jeanna
Jeanna:
As far as a built in resistor in the cap. I can't really say. It is so small already I don't know where they would put it but, anything is possible. What size resistor would you suggest for my large (almost "D" sized) capacitor? I have many that I have desoldered from various circuit boards in case I needed them someday. Did you learn anything outside from today's experiments? I leaned that it is very cold and raining!!!! Now I have my led collection and can't do much until I can get outside and play. I do have a few ideas though. I also ordered some flashing leds and was playing with one on my existing circuit. When linked in parallel, my cap will still light the original led and, the flashing one as well. Fairly bright too. This is inside using only the volts stored in the little cap from a few weeks ago. Once I have something, anything, interesting to show, I will make another video. I still want to play with my array on my tree as I am getting 1.25 vdc just from it. Now, if I could just find some uranium.... ha ha.
Bill
my understanding of caps was that they released their voltage into a load until they were used, if this is true then that would make your smaller cap more effecient than your larger :P i dont doubt that but all caps have a farad mark on them like 22uF which would me micro farads? any hoot the amount of usable voltage stored in a cap is marked by farads. perhaps you could take a quick look at the caps and see what they say? i will look into it in more detail later unless someone beats me to it. for now im too busy :( no fun for me.
Finally some results. Replication results
here goes:
Materials and orientations
"Cu" means => North and (+)2 1/2 foot long Cu pipe 3/4" pipe hammered 1 1/2 ft down
"Gr" means =>Graphite carpenter pencil 3 in down
"Mg" means =>South and (-) Magnesium firestarter 3 in down
"Zn" means => South and (-) Zinc rod 1/4 in diameter hammered 1 1/2 ft down
Cu - Mg 1.305v
Cu - Zn 0.98v
Gr - Mg 1.243v
Gr - Zn 1.020v
So, for me Cu - Mg is the winner but not as deep as yours, Bill, and not as far apart either. I have asked the welding teacher for some graphite rod. I may need to order one too. It was very close.
Oh yeah, I also put the probes on 2 pieces of copper and I saw some voltage. It is dark now and tomorrow I will check out the copper to copper voltages and also what they are at different distances. (unless it rains of course.)
@Stefan
I just re-read some of the earlier posts. Did you ever find a glue sealer for graphite powder? The local hardware store has powdered graphite but no rods.
I have some sodium silicate from another group of experiments I am doing on earthen cements. (geopolymers.org) I wonder if this which only dissolves in a strongly alkaline solution will bind the graphite together. hmm. maybe act as a conductor at earth voltages too? This is probably too many variables, but maybe worth a try.
jeanna
QuoteIt is so small already I don't know where they would put it but, anything is possible
have a look at the 555 timer. there is a lot of talk about it on electronics tutorials pages. It has many capacitors drawn in the silicon inside the chip. this is very small :D
I'm not recommending that you spend too much time on those tutorial pages, but maybe a glance will show you how different your circuit is from the others.
Look up 555Timer you will get a lot of explanations of what it is and how it works. but the capacitor is always parallel to a resistor and the load is in line just before or after the cap/resistor.
I have some undecipherable notes from the day I got a led to shine off a supercap. I will transcribe exactly what I made as it appears in my notes. (If I can find something intelligable) I'll do that in a couple of hours.
jeanna
Jeanna:
Great work!!! Is it not amazing that that small magnesium block gives the best volts when coupled to the carbon/graphite material? When you said north and south did you probe and find the best volts which should be alligned with the meridian in your area and not magnetic north? And, correct me if I am wrong, but way back in the thread where some folks were saying "galvanic reaction" I tested two similar (same) metals, copper and copper and I got some voltage, not much but it was there when alinged on the meridian. If you took two copper pipes and put them in salt water or any other electrolite there would be NO voltage...correct? This is what spurred me on to continue because that told me something else is happening here. And Jeanna, your best results are with a pencil (graphite) and a very small mag. block. This is impressive. Yes, I have this big carbon rod (which I need to sink deeper) but what would I get if I had a similar sized mag. rod????? This may not ever amount to anything but it amazes me that you can light a few leds for nothing. I always think in scale and if you can light one, or two...then......? My carbon rod is 100% pure and has no cladding. It was about $20 and yes is used in the welding industry but not very much anymore so they had to order it. Keep up your experiments Jeanna.
Artic Knight:
I can barely read the print on the small cap but it does say "22F" That sounds way too huge for this size but, what do I know. I have many others and some say 22000 uf which, if I read my book correctly really means 22,000 1/1000 of a fared which would be 22 farads also right?? I don't know why they do it this way. All I know is my small cap STILL light not only one led but another flashing one as well. It has not been connected to the earth cell in weeks. The larger caps just really lit up the led for like 2 seconds and then, nothing. More experiments to come.
Bill
Bill and all,
Here is the circuit that I made that lit the light with only the cap:
2 super caps soldered in series. each capacitor says 5.5V also FS 0.047F. (?)
The resistor is 1,000 ohms
First I connect neg to neg and pos to pos cap to battery. I hold it there for 5 or 6 seconds. This gives the juice to the capacitor.
Then I connect the pos side of the cap to the pos side of the led then the neg side of the led to the 1,000 ohm resistor, then the other end of that goes to the neg side of the cap.
The 1,000 ohms gives me about 30 seconds of good light and 2 to 12 more very dim. This will vary with leds. The one I used is green which if I remember, takes the least energy of the leds.
In my notes is a bunch of figuring with the conclusion that says "so, the place to add it is the capacitor... try 36,000 mF
Here are some of the more intelligable lines from those notes:
t=RC Now this aparantly means 1 time constant = 1 mega ohm times 1 microF. or again:
1 sec=1M ohm*1uF
[ if I want 1 second at 15mA per second then I need 15mA. To get 15mA I need 9 Volts and 600 ohms. If 600 ohms gives me 1 second, then will 36,000 ohms give me 60 seconds? -- The light won't work cuz 9/36,000=0.3mA -- So, the place to add it is in the capacitor- try 36,000]
I am afraid that is all there is. He didn't understand why I wanted to do this. He thought I should be happy to plug it in, I think :-\ In away I am glad he wasn't so interested in my projects cuz I had to do the figuring myself.
So, this little circuit I did doesn't amount to much but it is the reason I know there is promise to what you did.
I may (I had better) clear off some space (???) and solder up another circuit to be like this one you made and see what happens with some different voltages and see if I can get it to work the way you have. I just ordered a variety of parts that may fill in what I need from my little electronics box of goodies.
fun
Is there anyone else in this group that wants to duplicate Bills circuit too?
jeanna
@Bill i have a idea that might work since you are able to light multiple led's, if you have a chance see if you can find a disposable camera you dont really care about or if you can find one from the local drug store they usually keep the chassis they take the film out of for garbage so they will commonly give you a few if you ask.. or at least in my dealings . this circuit runs off of 1.5 v and is a great boost transformer. It steps the battery juice up from 1.5 v to up wards of 300 to fill a cap then the circuit lights its neon so you know its charged, this may be a simple one to see if we can get to work with your 1.7 to 1.8 v readings just clip the leads on plus and minus terminals where the battery would have been and your there, hold the charge and see what happens, probably best to diss assemble the thing and take a live meter reading off of the capicator inside it but be real careful if it charges it will arc weld a skrew driver. http://web.instructables.com/id/Disposable-camera-coilgun/ (http://web.instructables.com/id/Disposable-camera-coilgun/) is a simple coil gun but it shows the camera flash board nicley. Just a thought and if anyone else has at least a volt and a half or so i would recommend trying
Joe
Quote from: Pirate88179 on December 20, 2007, 09:27:16 PM
Is it not amazing that that small magnesium block gives the best volts when coupled to the carbon/graphite material?
When you said north and south did you probe and find the best volts which should be alligned with the meridian in your area and not magnetic north?
Bill
yes magnesium and carbon thats the ticket.
The question of N S is curious. I would have to pound the rod into the ground then check then take it out then pound it in another place. I sort of checked the alignment. It is something I will do with the mag carbon combo since they are the easiest to move around. Here on the west coast the declination is about 18 degrees east. It is a lot. This question is worth answering. Patrick Flanagan proved that it is the magnetic field that affects the pyramid. but we may be working with something else here. underground currents may relate to different influences from what we are used to.
jeanna
@ Jeanna:
Actually...no. Joe taught me from the very begining of this thread that, once you place one electrode in the ground you can "probe" around with the second one and move it to whatever allignment works best. That is what I did. If you are using the mag. block then I would position your + electrode (carbon/graphite) wherever you want and then push the mag. block part way into the earth and take a reading...and so on and so forth. That is what I did and it is funny that I am about 3 degrees off of magnetic north and that just happens to be the declination for this area. (I know this from my time flying airplanes here, I still have the charts) This is facinating about your using multiple caps. I would not know how to do so but your description will now allow me to give it a go. I am impressed with your experimentaion Jeanna, keep up your efforts. Is it not amazing that there is ANY voltage at all? and Free???
@ Joe:
I think I have a few of those cameras lying around here as we speak. I would have never thought of that. I enjoy tearing things apart so, I will get started. My only question is, by design, the cap or caps in the camera are meant to charge up and....dump. Will we need resistor/s in line to slow this down? Every other cap I have here does what Jeanna said caps should do. Charge up and.....dump! I am seriously considering buying another shake light to destroy just to get the cap out of it. Then I can wire it like Jeanna did and maybe get more storage. But hey, if I try it and it does not work, at least I got to take something else apart. Ha ha.
Bill
On my way out to move the probe but first:
I hit the neg side of my super cap and left the pos side open to the air. then attached the cap to the light/resistor again and there is light.
Yes, I checked this first by hooking up the light without charging the cap to make sure there was no recharge on the cap and the light was off .
I did this again outside and it didn't work and then again inside and it didn't work again. I will try again I just want to report this right away. arrgh
I got this idea while reading Bill Beaty's stuff. So, it worked - weakly.
I guess it won't matter if we are using earth power but Tom Bearden makes a nice description of how to not use up the power in a battery by separating the fill stage from the use stage of a power set up. This is how he sets up his circuits. but his circuits are still over my head. (but I am getting taller every day ;D)
Bill,
Did you ever read Bill Beaty's description of how a cap works? his site is http.amasci.com. His site takes weeks to read it is so big. also good site. but the page about caps is especially useful, I think. If that link doesn't work tell me I go and find the right spelling.
jeanna
@bill
nahh it shouldn't dissipate that bad bill ive taken readings off the cap before. In the coilgun i made i just put a momentary switch off - on cap leg, connect the coil on one side of the switch and the other leg of the coil to the + on the cap. when the button gets hit it dumps the current through the coil. So being that i can charge it and let it sit for a min or so i i think it shouldnt dissapate that quick.
joe
Quote from: Localjoe on December 21, 2007, 03:49:49 PM
@bill
nahh it shouldn't dissipate that bad bill ive taken readings off the cap before. In the coilgun i made i just put a momentary switch off - on cap leg, connect the coil on one side of the switch and the other leg of the coil to the + on the cap. when the button gets hit it dumps the current through the coil. So being that i can charge it and let it sit for a min or so i i think it shouldnt dissapate that quick.
joe
joe
It isn't a battery is the reason. It is pure charge. There are no chemicals to be made or broken down for the intake or outflow of charge on a cap. (T-RC)
And the charge will last in there for a really long time, but as soon as it is hit it dumps 66% of its charge in 1 time constant and is nearly gone in 5 time constants.
Can someone help explain time constants?
jeanna
Brrr! Its cold outside
So, with frozen fingers I have some more results.
This time I checked for the strongest alignment by using the Cu pipe from yesterday and moving the magnesium block around then put everything on that axis. Plus I did some control type elements.
Cu/Cu 0.047v
Cu/cement 0.179v then I looked again and it had gone to zero so I did it again
Cu.cement 0.264==-->0.15v and still dropping
Cu/Mg 1.232v
Cu/Zn 1.003v
Graphite/Zn 1.020v
Graphite/Mg 1.189v but the mg block was getting dirty so I held the probe hard in place and got
Graphite/Mg 1.388v
all voltages held steady except for the one with cement.
I am intrigued by Stefan's Idea to put the powder onto some material and make a compressed material in the shape of a rod. Is anyone else intrigued by this? Is there a way to make a longer rod.
jeanna
@jenna
If i remember right when a cap dumps its load there may be a time constant created by the ESR of the circuit, Its a fun concept to get used to and i dont fully understand it but think of a sharp increase that can only go so high until a on off cycle or bounce back was completed to let the remainder through it may create a phase differencial because its going through the resistor which slows the second output by 90 degrees.
Joe
PS- Thanks for weathering it i would be if every stupid part of my lawn wasen't covered
jeanna, just wanted to congratulate u with the experiments. I am sure many of us are watching what you do. The results with the voltages are very helpful and make you think.
I have some activated carbon lying around, I wonder if that would work...
Did you notice any difference between lying the rods horizontally vs putting them vertical?
Also, could you check the voltages between the items while they are lying on a kitchen table or some other wooden surface?
This should be a terrible sketch of what I want to try next. (Thanks to Localjoe for the circuit suggestion) I will have to obtain more materials which will take some time. I feel, from my experience, that they have to be the same "dissimilar" (is that possible?? ha ha) metals on the north and south. You know, three carbon rods, three mag. blocks, etc.
I have been reading all I can about capacitors and, except for Sears using them as quick charging batteries for their screw guns, I can't find anything that says they will work like a battery like my little cap has been doing. Still learning here.
@ Jeanna:
Great work out there!!! Thanks for the info on Beaty. I will look that up and read. I love to read. I don't think messing with powdered graphite or carbon is going to work, and if it does it will not work as well as the isopressed and sintered rods. The binder, in this case, some sort of conductive glue, will make up a certain percent of the mixture and thereby weaken the properties. Of course, I never tried it and maybe it won't be the same as a condensed rod of the same size but still might be more than a carpenter's pencil. Who knows? Hey, stupid question here. I have seen where I can buy, pretty cheap, carbon/graphite powder by the pound. what if someone were to dig a hole and say fill it almost up with this powder, no glue, just the powder. Could one stick electrode pick-ups into the pile and take the volts off of that? I guess the rain would raise hell with it after a while but, if it's cheap.....???? Just a thought.
@ Joe:
I am going to rip one of those cameras apart here soon and see what happens. I'll let you know.
@ akashh:
That's a good suggestion about testing out of the ground. I never did that. I would assume there would be NO voltage between them in air but, since I did not do it, I don't really know do I?
Bill
Quote from: Localjoe on December 21, 2007, 07:07:22 PM
@jenna
If i remember right when a cap dumps its load there may be a time constant created by the ESR of the circuit, Its a fun concept to get used to and i dont fully understand it but think of a sharp increase that can only go so high until a on off cycle or bounce back was completed to let the remainder through it may create a phase differencial because its going through the resistor which slows the second output by 90 degrees.
Joe
PS- Thanks for weathering it i would be if every stupid part of my lawn wasen't covered
What do you mean by 90 degrees?
What's ESR?
Are both of those things to do with coils?
anyway I think we're talking about the same thing but I don't know but you may be talking about a more complex and "engineered" version of it.
I'm gonna try to find a graph on line. If I can't find one, I will make a hand drawn version on my tablet. There are 2 graphs. One for the charging and one for the discharging. In the simple way the charging follows one of the graphs and discharging the other. The curve describes the charging and discharging in ohms and farads. T=RC T in seconds, R in ohms, C in farads.
The inductor has exactly the same shape graph which describes current increasing and decreasing in ohms and henries. T=L/R T in seconds. R in ohms, L in henries
I will see what I can find and pass it along.
QuoteDid you notice any difference between lying the rods horizontally vs putting them vertical?
Also, could you check the voltages between the items while they are lying on a kitchen table or some other wooden surface?
I could do it again. I remember when I did this the first time some weeks ago, the voltage was not as high. I can do it again.
Also, yes I did check out the voltage dry in the house - nada
And today since I brought the mag inside for cleaning and checking out I checked it against some copper and some steel. (I had left the pencils in the shed) The reading was 0.000v
This is all very exciting. The earth is making a big difference. I think the big challenge for us is to figure how to double and redouble it. In that regard, I suspect the depth is how we'll get it. I will however, make a set of connected cells like the one joe drew, since that may do it also.
Thank you all for your encouragement! I'm so accustomed to doing these things in a vacuum, it is really nice to be in a think tank.
jeanna
I stuck two copper rods in the earth about half a foot today and managed to get about 36 mV out of them at no current. However, I began to wonder whether the voltage was in fact a reaction between the copper an my probe. Sticking both probes in the earth resulted in 0V most of the time but I also did manage to get a very small voltage (20mV) with just probes in the ground. Then I did something interesting - I put the multimeter on resistance and started to measure the resistance between my probes. I got values of over 20k and sometimes 5 k depending on how well the probe was stuck in the ground. I then did the same with the small copper rods and got about 5k and 10k depending on how deeply I put them in the ground.
I think, although I am not sure, that the resistance between the rods is what gives us the voltage. When u bury 2 copper rods deeply, I am sure there will be no volts (well,not sure, but I think). But the higher the resistance the more the voltage (and less the current). Does this make sense?
on normal science terms the greater the resistance the less the voltage however i have seen a couple free energy devices that claim raising the resistance or load increases their devices ability to increas its output to match... perhaps something twisted like that may be occuring but i dont see why it would work like that. when your measuring resistance from one pole to the next your measuring as if your passing a voltage from one through the ground to the other, in this battery if im not mistaken we need 2 poles only because the voltage has to have a return path (but does not need to reach the other pole) because the voltage from the return path does not need to reach the collecter there is no increase in resistance and thus as bill says he has experienced or was it joe? the farther the poles are from each other the greater the electrical potential, but the greater the resistance as well! however remember voltage has to have an in and an out, with that considered the ground provides the current but when it returns to ground it does not return to the other pole (unless a chemical reaction is occuring)
my question is has someone tried to take a car battery or other 12 volt high power battery and "charge" their earth battery? it only needs a second or two to activate or in my case with the sand batteries increase the voltage by a rediculas 200% ! from .04 volt to .76!
Quote from: Pirate88179 on December 21, 2007, 09:31:27 PM
@ Jeanna:
Great work out there!!! Thanks for the info on Beaty. I will look that up and read. I love to read. I don't think messing with powdered graphite or carbon is going to work, and if it does it will not work as well as the isopressed and sintered rods. The binder, in this case, some sort of conductive glue, will make up a certain percent of the mixture and thereby weaken the properties. Of course, I never tried it and maybe it won't be the same as a condensed rod of the same size but still might be more than a carpenter's pencil. Who knows? Hey, stupid question here. I have seen where I can buy, pretty cheap, carbon/graphite powder by the pound. what if someone were to dig a hole and say fill it almost up with this powder, no glue, just the powder. Could one stick electrode pick-ups into the pile and take the volts off of that? I guess the rain would raise hell with it after a while but, if it's cheap.....???? Just a thought.
G'day Bill,
How about drilling a hole in a lump of coal, insert a wire into it (insulated and stripped where it enters the coal to avoid galvanic action) and burying that. It would be cheap and it might just work :)
Hans
To connect graphite rods electrically it is best to use silver wire or silver coated wire, cause it will not give any big difference voltage due to low dissimular metals...
you could also use a stainless steel screw screwed into the graphite, but the ss screw will be consumed after a while, cause graphite is etching the stainless steel away...
Quote from: Artic_Knight on December 22, 2007, 10:38:36 AM
on normal science terms the greater the resistance the less the voltage however i have seen a couple free energy devices that claim raising the resistance or load increases their devices ability to increas its output to match... perhaps something twisted like that may be occuring but i dont see why it would work like that.
That is sort of what I am looking to find
I am guessing that it is possible because this earth is a giant motor, with the metal magnet inside a magnetic field. The magnetic field looks just like the shavings around a dipole magnet on a table. OK so, the part that all the scientists (not all) seem to ignore is that this magnet is careering through space. So, this magnet with its charge (from the sun ) is moving and spinning. Since motors can be turned into generators I am interested in finding a way to do this.
The biggest problem here is not if we can get this power (lightning rods ;) ), but how to make it small enough that we
survive getting this power.
I like this earth battery cuz it seems a way to get a confined amount of electricity in an orderly and useful way.
One day in that electronics class, I realized that you can't get useful power without a resistor. Too much and it stops everything, but without it you just get a blast of voltage and SINCE it expressed itself as all voltage there were no amps. Also a wire is a resistor. The thinner the wire the greater the resistance. Bills device shows that we are indeed getting amps as well as volts
My electronics teacher never allowed me to use the amp meter. He said it was too confounded by the workings of the meter itself. It is probably there for electricians testing wall plugs etc.
Quotewhen your measuring resistance from one pole to the next your measuring as if your passing a voltage from one through the ground to the other, in this battery if im not mistaken we need 2 poles only because the voltage has to have a return path (but does not need to reach the other pole) because the voltage from the return path does not need to reach the collecter there is no increase in resistance and thus as bill says he has experienced or was it joe? the farther the poles are from each other the greater the electrical potential, but the greater the resistance as well! however remember voltage has to have an in and an out, with that considered the ground provides the current but when it returns to ground it does not return to the other pole (unless a chemical reaction is occuring)
or maybe unless there is another pole and something that draws the power away, thus "directing" this charge to the other pole. (the meter may be just the draw that is needed to direct it to the pole.)
Or, maybe it is because there is more resistance that there is more voltage when the poles are farther apart??
Quote
my question is has someone tried to take a car battery or other 12 volt high power battery and "charge" their earth battery? it only needs a second or two to activate or in my case with the sand batteries increase the voltage by a rediculas 200% ! from .04 volt to .76!
Does it stay there? If you charge an area of earth through 2 poles does it stay charged?
jeanna
G'day all,
Just found this one, http://www.mondovista.com/meyers/ really weird but reminiscent of Stubblefield in a way, except is is not buried in the ground.
Have fun
Hans von Lieven
PS. Still struggling with Helmholtz and Pamenides that is why my promised next essay is so long in coming. Still working on it though.
hansvonlieven, "Just found this one, http://www.mondovista.com/meyers/ really weird but reminiscent of Stubblefield in a way, except is is not buried in the ground."
Absorber, hmmmm, LOL What does my theory consist of? What did my design consist of?
His design didn't even need to attract any certain frequency, it seemed to have worked off all frenquencies. hmmm It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out.
What design? Can you post a sketch?
Hans von Lieven
I will try but I seem to have a hard time posting pictures here. I could probably add it to my web site and post the link if you are really interested enough.
just create your post as normal, then go to the bottom where it says Attach click on the Browse button and locate the picture on your computer, double click on the graphic you want to send and post. Simple as this. You can post more than one picture if you want.
Hans
hansvonlieven, ok, thanks. Give me a few because I am slow at drawing using a computer.
@ Hans:
I'm trying to catch up here today. First, fantastic idea with the coal, easy to get, easy to try and cheap. I wonder if anthracite or bituminous coal makes any difference? And if it does not work, so what? If it does work, then very very easy to make multiple "positive" electrode cells out of them. I wish I had thought of it. Second, that story and patent info on the "Absorber" seems to me to be right in line with all of this. I will go back and reread it as I can't really grasp how it operates after the first reading.. A lot of info there. I don't know where you find all this great stuff. At first glance with the magnets and the zinc plates (in the simple version) it looks a bit similar to the device being experimented with in the pyramid topic. Not the same, but maybe a distant cousin?
@ Jeanna:
Good job in testing the materials in "air". I suspected no volts but, now we know for sure. Always better to know. I still think the earth is a large capacitor but maybe, it is a motor of sorts too? And a giant magnet? All of the above?
@ Artic Knight:
Somewhere near the early part of this topic, one of the posts of an early patent (or a link to it) spoke of just that. "Priming the pump". It may have been mentioned on the Stubblefield stuff, I can't remember. Pretty easy to try and I don't see it cutting down on anything. It would either improve things, or stay the same I should think. Well then again, it might short out or drain my car's battery....oops. Because, in a way, it would be like hooking up both battery (car) terminals to "ground". Of course one is a positive ground and one neg. but both might function as earth grounds to the car battery's operation. Who knows? Maybe I could try it with a nine volt radio battery first just to see?
I only have a few days left to get my outdoor Christmas lights (a few different colored leds) to run off my earth battery. I don't know if I am gonna make it or not.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on December 22, 2007, 06:22:06 PM
@ Hans:
I don't know where you find all this great stuff.
It's called diligent research :D
Hans
@ nightlife:
I have been thinking about a way to convey this to you in a nice manner as I always attempt to get along with people on this forum, and I am not into flame wars. You have this all encompassing theory, I am well aware of it as I am sure most are as you started I don't know how many topics dealing with it. It is so all encompassing that, no matter what anyone comes up with that works it "fits" your theory. That's all fine. A theory of everything is great but only as far as a theory can go. I think I speak for most of us here in saying that we all have what we think is a pretty good understanding of the way things work. Do we know everything? Of course not. Could conventional science have missed something along the way through history that might help the world now? I believe the answer is yes and I think that is why most of us are here.
I like some parts of your thinking but until you can post drawings of devices that work, or almost work, or pictures, or videos, I don't think you will get very far with it. Just look at poor Lawrence on his thread. Lawrence is "all theory" and he even says so himself. I think most of us here are hands on types and if we saw you post something that held any promise at all, many people on this forum would dive in and help you to make it work, or prove that it does not, in which case you could try something else.
A great example is this topic here. Joe posted some crazy stuff about sticking some rods into the ground to get free electricity. I read it and was totally working along another line for over ten years. I gave it a try, even though I kinda thought it was a waste of time. But, and here is the difference I think, Joe not only told of this crazy idea, he told of how he went about testing it in a way that anyone could replicate, which I, and now others, have done. If Joe just said, "I think you can get free electricity out of the earth," and kept repeating it here, and in other topics all over the forum, I don't think many would have paid him much attention. I would not have.
So, please take this in the spirit in which it is intended. Design some experiments based upon your theory...come up with a possible device....and post it. Let others try to replicate it or help you with it. There are a lot of very intelligent folks here that I have seen dive into others work to help push it along. If you turn out to be wrong, better to know sooner than later so you can work on something else, right? Maybe others have a different opinion but this is mine and I am responsible for the contents of this post. (Sounds like a political ad) Best of luck on your projects.
Bill
It is raining again, :-[ , so no meter outside.
So, I collected all the electrodes from the shed and truly checked them out on the wooden table inside.
Cu & Graphite on the + side
Cu, Graphite, Mg, Zn and some steel on the - side
everything came up as zero.
well, no the Cu+ to Mg- showed 0.003v
jeanna
G'day Gentlemen,
This is the bare bones "Absorber" patented by Roy J Meyers in 1913. Even though there are far more complex versions in the patent, Meyers is adamant that it works like this without the embellishments.
Probably quite a few of you will want to try this since it is a model of simplicity and cheap to make.
I have created another one of my priceless works of graphic art :D to show you what is involved.
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fkeelytech.com%2Foverunity%2Fmyersabsorber.jpg&hash=020031f3520918a0c1ee8d40401c2b980fde0a02)
Hans von Lieven
@ Hans:
Great graphics!!! The thing that jumps out at me right away is the north/south alignment We have seen this before have we not? I think he said in his patent wording...."Alignment with the geographical north" or something like that. That's back to Stubblefield and the alignment with the north/south meridian. (as opposed to magnetic north/south) Well if Jeanna can brave the cold, I have no cases scheduled for Sunday so, I may as well drift outside and play around a bit. What did you use to produce the graphics Hans? I attempt to use both ms paint and google sketch up but both seem to require drawing and the only way I have to do that is using my mouse which, will NOT follow where I want it to go most of the time. I am printing out your circuit and it is on my list of experiments now.
Bill
This one was done with MS paint. I find it is very good for basic graphics, when it gets beyond what it can do I use Paint Shop Pro.
Hans
Pirate88179, thank you for keeping your words kind and I was only trying to get some of you to reason with common sense to help steer everyone in the right direction. Hans seems to have the concept for the most part and I was replying to a post he left here.
Since you were so kind, I will do you all a favor that is working on this earth battery theory and that is to tell you all that you must use 2 sets post, 2 Zinc and 2 copper. The first sets copper will have to have one lead attached to the other sets zinc and the first sets zinc will have to have a lead attached to that to be the ground. The other sets copper post will be the positive.
1st set of post
copper (positive) zinc (to second sets copper)
2nd set of post
copper (to first sets zinc) zinc (negative)
Not sure how much power it will create but the do sell kits to build these to run clocks using two flower pots as the power source and you can buy them at Hobby Lobby for about $20.00
As for my theory, I am again sorry to aggravate you all but as I said, you must rely on common sense when dealing with things that no one as ever seen. Most here want to think of a electron as a solid but yet wants to think it can go through brick walls. Then we have everyone here wanting to make electricity or some other form of energy but then they don?t want to start with the basics and find out what energy is. I started several threads to try and get you people to open your minds and let some common sense take over to help you all achieve your goals. Big money has painted the picture most of you have in your heads and I am just trying to get you all to understand that you cant always believe what you read or even what you have been taught because believe it or not, big money controls what you can be taught as well as most of what you read.
Just think about that and I will from now on post drawings of my ideas now that Hans has explained to me how I can post them. I just started a Youtube account so the I can do some experiments and video record them and post them for all to see. I again am not here to piss anyone off but at the same time I am not here to waste my time with ignorance. When I first started I explained to you all that I am a mechanical problem solver by trade. I solve problems that people with years of schooling could not. I achieve my goals by using common sense. I know this is a far cry from what I am used to but I am getting to know what is going on and what is needed to solve our problems with this particular situation.
Good day to you and I wish everyone happy holidays.
G'day nightlife,
You are talking here about a simple galvanic cell which is what they use in flowerpots. This is NOT what we are talking about here though. We appear to be dealing with a totally different phenomenon here though there will always be some sort of galvanic action as a component.
Galvanic action is independent of alignment. What we are doing apparently is not. That should be enough to raise eyebrows, alas not many seem to grasp the significance of this.
Hans von Lieven
Quote from: nightlife on December 22, 2007, 10:21:51 PM
tell you all that you must use 2 sets post, 2 Zinc and 2 copper. The first sets copper will have to have one lead attached to the other sets zinc and the first sets zinc will have to have a lead attached to that to be the ground. The other sets copper post will be the positive.
1st set of post
copper (positive) zinc (to second sets copper)
2nd set of post
copper (to first sets zinc) zinc (negative)
Not sure how much power it will create
Nitelife,
We had a link a couple of weeks ago to theverylastpageoftheinternet.com (Don Adsitt's site) where an extensive array is proposed to produce 120 volts by doing something like your suggestion using 120 copper tubes arranged 12across x 10deep. each copper tube had a zinc nail inside it with earth inside the copper tube, all buried in the earth with a few other details.
I just put a couple of pieces together which I hope will hold up long enough to try this outside the next time the rain stops. I will only be using 2 or maybe 3 sets of copper pipe with zinc inside wired in series like this. I expect to see about 3 volts if it works.
The last time I did this I got zero volts from the combination where I had had around 1 volt from a single cell. I wanted to check it out again being more careful this time and following those details more carefully.
we'll see I bought the torch but I have never soldered using a torch before. It should be easy enough, but we'll see. I will of course report any results here.
Stay tuned.
;)
jeanna
jeanna, I cant wait to hear about your results. I personally will be testing a few things after the holidays. Good luck to you and all and I do hope everyone has a fun filled holiday season.
@ All:
Below is copied and pasted from something I just read about a use for some of the new supercapacitors:
"The new Coleman Flash Cell screwdriver can recharge in 90 seconds flat and it doesn?t use a single battery to do it. How can that be? Rather than rely on rechargeable batteries that can take up to an hour and a half to charge up, the Coleman design relies and a high energy capacitor. Unfortunately, while it can recharge lickety split, users will be charging their screwdriver more often than it?s lithium or NiCad cousins. A basic rechargeable battery powered screwdriver can handle around 35-40 screws between recharge cycles, while the FlashCell gives out after a little over half that (22).
Now while having recharge the capacitor so often may sound like a royal pain, the advantage the FlashCell has is that the capacitor doesn?t have to deal with dying over time (it has a rated charging life of about 500,000 charging cycles) or dealing with memory issues due to inactivity. After remaining idle for months, the maker of the Flash Cell - Products International ? claims that the FlashCell will retain about 85% of its charge. That?s pretty impressive.
What?s cool about it is that while this is a new technology, since tools like this stay idle for a long time with the average household user. And while the power needs of other tools probably render this concept impractical, it could be the next step in focusing on more green technologies that can do the job and keep the environment healthier.
Cost is about $99."
I am pretty sure my little cap. is a super cap. I have looked them up and found several that appear identical to mine. I read that one of the suggested uses for the supercapacitor is to light leds over a long period of time. So, somehow these must not "dump" 66% of their charge at once. This is possibly why they are being used in small hand tools now. No memory problems like batteries and over 1/2 million charge/recharge cycles. I am going to see if my Local RadioShack has some.
@ Jeanna:
Best of luck with your experiments out there. My impression is that you won't get any where near the volts you would get using carbon and magnesium, but, we will see. Best I did here with copper was something like .8 volts or so. Going for three volts eh? I hope I beat you there but, I am not taking any bets on it ha ha. I am wasting a lot of time trying to figure out what to do next while I should just be doing it. I am going to try to crack the 2 volt reading as my next goal. If you hit 3, I guess I'll have to re-think my approach. Best of luck.
Merry Christmas to all who celebrate it and to all of the others I wish whatever is appropriate for this time of year in your country.
Bill
Hello to all,
Just found this group last night. Finally got registered just after trying out a rod of carbon encased in very thin copper, it's what is used to arc-gouge (sp) with a welding machine. The other rod was a plain steel piece. They were placed about 16 inches apart, short leads on my meter, I was instantly amazed by the fact that I got .96 VDC @ .995 amps. This is so far out, I can just see it now, my back yard will look like a porcupine!
Hi sid10,
welcome,
how did you measure exactly the amps ?
Is this a short circuit current with your DVM meter ?
Or analog amp meter ?
On what max settings of your meter did you measure it ?
Does it change on another settings of your meter,
e.g. 2 amps setting or 10 amps setting ?
Current level seems abit high for such a setup...
Do you live near a transformer station or a High voltage line ?
Please try on a real load like a 1 Ohm, 10 Ohm and 100 Ohm resistor.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
Quote from: sid10 on December 23, 2007, 04:06:49 PM
Hello to all,
Just found this group last night. Finally got registered just after trying out a rod of carbon encased in very thin copper, it's what is used to arc-gouge (sp) with a welding machine. The other rod was a plain steel piece. They were placed about 16 inches apart, short leads on my meter, I was instantly amazed by the fact that I got .96 VDC @ .995 amps. This is so far out, I can just see it now, my back yard will look like a porcupine!
Welcome Sid10,
This carbon rod encased on copper sounds interesting to me. As you have probably read, Pirate88179 (Bill) has achieved excellent results using carbon and Magnesium. I asked the welding "teacher" last evening for some of either and he told me he has no access. He teaches in a high school which is where I found him teaching adults to weld. Does this rod have a particular name? Are you in the US?
So, did you try your test with different N-S compass directions to find the best one? (I suspect these will vary according to our location.) Its good to include that in your tests so we are all doing the same sort of thing all around the globe.
At the moment we are trying to add to the effect we are getting from one cell. I had the very surprising result that the voltage went to zero when I tried to put them in series.
Joe made an excellent suggestion which Bill is planning to try. I am too. It rained all day so I did other things. FYI on my list is to use 3 copper tubes and wire them together then tie them to 3 zinc rods that are also wired together and measure the voltage. (That is Joe's suggestion) Also, and using the same pipes and rods I will link up 3 cells of zinc inside copper pipe with dirt also inside the pipe and red paint (?) on the outside of the copper pipe plastic underneath and all wired together in series. (I am not sure who gets the credit for this one, but if it works, I will try to find that person to give credit.)
But I don't want to mess up my meter in the rain so I will do it next non raining day.
Did you set up a control for your test? just do the same thing in the house on a table. and also in water. Thus you have a control for just the metals not touching and a regular wet cell. water or acid or what you think.
welcome to the fun.
jeanna
I guess you must have measured milliamps by mistake... unless copper/carbon is something we did not try yet. Did anyone else test copper coated carbon rods?
Quotenext while I should just be doing it. I am going to try to crack the 2 volt reading as my next goal. If you hit 3, I guess I'll have to re-think my approach. Best of luck.
Right, Bill
I just want to make sure (?) that this series type thing is nothing but galvanic before I give up on it. The 10 pager from Don Adsitt's site claims 12v multiplied to 120v, but at the bottom of the page is written, I assume by Don, that he tried it and it doesn't work. Not much info and it is easy. I can try to get 3 cells to give me 3 v. easy.
I am very impressed with the magnesium carbon results. I bought the last fire brick the hardware store had and these pencils prove the point but are so breakable, I see these as the best combo, but for the series concept the copper zinc will show it. And it will be easy to check the copper for changes.
So, If you put a bunch of glass christmas balls in the shape of a tree and shine a single red led at them will you get a lit up tree? Maybe it needs to have needles ;D
also, I am wondering why the wire between the 2 horseshoe magnets had to be uninsulated?
jeanna
Quote from: jeanna on December 23, 2007, 08:24:03 PM
This carbon rod encased on copper sounds interesting to me. Does this rod have a particular name? Are you in the US?
jeanna
Hi Jeanna,
It is called Air Carbon-Gouging Electrode You can find it at www.mcmaster.com (http://www.mcmaster.com) search for 'gouging'. It is on page 3267 of their catalog. They sell them copper coated or plain.
George
Hello all:
Well today, I actually did a little more experimenting. (cold) I wired my tree array,(I have pictures of it posted somewhere way back) which is -, to the neg. side of the meter and also used a jumper to the neg. side of the meter (probe) from the magnesium block which is also -. The + probe of the meter went to the carbon rod. 1.6 vdc. Disconnecting the magnesium block from the mix it went down to 1.25 which is common for the tree array. Hooking the magnesium block back up and testing just between it and the carbon rod it was back up to 1.8 vdc which is what I have been getting lately. So, adding the tree array into the mix on the - side raised the volts from it but lowered the volts from the carbon rod/mag. block setup.
I am still not giving up on the series stuff just yet. Hans's idea with the coal is great. But, although Kentucky produces a lot of the coal for the US would you believe no one around here even sells it????? I have made many inquiries with no luck as of yet. I am sure I can find some somewhere. The test to do, from my point of view, would be three blocks of coal drilled and wire implanted into it wired together and buried in the ground. Three magnesium blocks wired together and also buried separately in the ground. Then test for potential between the cells as suggested by Joe. I think this is promissing.
Welcome to Sid10. I also think you were possibly reading off the milliamp scale so it would be good to double check that. If not, this would be a huge leap ahead and we, I am sure, would be very interested in your experiments. As Jeanna said, welcome to the fun.
Bill
@ all ... small bit of good news,
I spoke with emdevices from the micro tpu forum and explained to him what our readings were about a week or less ago and he confirms that the potential we have as long as we dump it into a parallel cap bank should be enough to start oscillations in the micro tpu without stepping it up first.
So concept for usable power here is that we fill say 5 to 10 5v large farad number caps... 36000 mfd or higher and connect their terminals in parallel with the electrodes off the other end of the cap bank we would feed this micro tpu- the output of this device should be enough to light a few led's while charging a battery... some of the folks in that fourm have led's running off of one cap and this device for over 2 hrs on a single charge to the cap...
We have a indefinite supply as opposed to this single charge so i see this as being the next goal .. im getting a new soldering iorn with a base and temp control for Christmas ... Then these small soldering projects wont be such a nightmare...
I had my radio shack tip break in half off of the iron while i was barely pushing on some pcb .. i spilled my soda when my arm smaked the table and at that point i broke the iron in half at the plastic joint and threw it.... freakin rs crap. :o
G'day all,
I have not been sitting idle in spite of some difficult circumstances. I am still working on the Roy Meyer device. There are a number of strange aspects to it. I have almost finished another one of my "stunning graphics" ;D to show what I mean. I should be able to post this within a day or two.
Merry Christmas to you all, Muslims, Hindus, Jews and Christians alike even to you Atheists. There is nothing wrong with wishing others well no matter what religion they believe in, so I will NOT do the politically correct thing and qualify it.
I wish you all well, and hope there will be peace on this f*cking globe one of these days.
Hans von Lieven
Quote from: Localjoe on December 24, 2007, 01:22:16 AM
the potential we have as long as we dump it into a parallel cap bank should be enough to start oscillations in the micro tpu without stepping it up first.
So concept for usable power here is that we fill say 5 to 10 5v large farad number caps... 36000 mfd or higher and connect their terminals in parallel with the electrodes off the other end of the cap bank we would feed this micro tpu- the output of this device should be enough to light a few led's while charging a battery... some of the folks in that fourm have led's running off of one cap and this device for over 2 hrs on a single charge to the cap...
We have a indefinite supply as opposed to this single charge so i see this as being the next goal
Hey Joe,
good work on the other thread. Whats a tpu? I didn't get too far on google, I will look some more but...
Would you be willing to draw this nice parallel circuit that gives oscillation? Are you talking astable multivibrator here? or a coil? I need to be studying oscillators. some help would be great.
QuoteBut, although Kentucky produces a lot of the coal for the US would you believe no one around here even sells it?????
Darn!!! I was hoping you would be able to tell me.
Well I'm gonna buy a carbon gouging stick. I'll try that.--Thanks George
So, earlier I was walking around with my meter and I tried this pebble thing I made. It gave me a wild reading up and down I could barely read it. I was reading just voltage. From 0.12v to 0.001 volts and up and down. It was crazy.
A few minutes ago I was at a thread nobody seems to be looking at anymore about John Hutchison effect. There was some talk about his picking up dirt and hinting that he starts there.
Now, backing up some more, last summer I started to learn about sodium silicate and how this french man named Prof. Davidovits first dissolved clay in NaCo3 and water then added crushed limestone and made limestone which hardened at normal temperatures and was indistinguishable from mined limestone. His research continued the work of Kuhlmann another frenchman from 1866 who coined the term "silicatize".
To silicatize something - kuhlmann started with a ball of clay- he painted it with sodium silicate (water glass).
I wasn't getting very far in my replication of making limestone when I read this so I painted some of my too crumbly not really limestone with this sodium silicate. It dried shiny and hard. Kuhlmann added several coats. I only added 2. It didn't seem to have much to do with earth batteries until today.
Hutchison I guess treats his rocks with high voltage as they are solidifying and they retain some charge.
I know this isn't really on our subject and I won't continue, but I thought you guys might be wanting this information so there it was.
jeanna
@ georgemay:
I used to buy from Mcmaster-Carr all the time. I never thought of looking there for our materials. Thank you for directing us to them.
@ Jeanna:
I have always said that Hutch is either a genius or an idiot and I have always leaned toward genius. Interesting that he says in his videos that he has to "juice" the mix to get it going. This sounds familiar. Priming the pump again like some have done with their earth batteries. I have not tried that yet...it is on my list.
@Localjoe:
I finally used two magnifying glasses and read the label on my cap. 0.22F and 5 volt. .22 F is still large so I still think this is a supercap or ultra cap. (you have seen the small size of it) I would like to buy like 5 of these and wire them as you suggested. I have not yet tried to see how long it will burn my led but I suspect it will be longer than 2 hours, and, with no added circuitry. I will time it.
I mean, this thing has not been hooked to my outside cell for weeks and, when I connect the + wire to complete the circuit....still very bright. I know this just means it holds it well but I will time the constant running of one led to see.
Bill
jenna where did you get the water glass? i want that for my sand batteries! (hutchison batteries)
im working on making a tesla coil now (not sure if i said this) i will be able to post some neat experiments in a few days. my verison of the tesla is the main conducting coil grounded to a single pole earth cell and the secondary (charging) coil hopefully will produce large currents.
also on my list is to add a regular cell to charge the tesla and see how this effects things :D
Ho Ho Ho and Merry Christmas. Track Santa with your Kids at this Norad site:
http://www.noradsanta.org/
Led/capacitor test results:
2:18 p.m. I connected the led to the small cap. after charging the cap. on the cell outside for about 20 minutes. I let it burn on my bookshelf inside to see how long it will stay illuminated.
3:20 p.m. Led is still lit but growing very faint as I type this. I can still see it in the dark. It was what I would call bright for well over 45 minutes. This was just with my one cap. (5v .22f) I wonder what would happen with 5 connected together as Joe suggested?
Tomorrow, I might give a few ideas of mine a go outside on the cell. If anything interesting happens I will post a video.
Bill
Bill ... awesome! were making great progress
So now think of this... Your starting to realize the potential we have available here ... The folks in the micro tpu thread started out charging a single cap that was much smaller than bills and letting just that energy oscillate through this device and it allowed led's to be lit for anywhere from an hr and a half to 2 .. thats with a single charge. If This device is supplied power through a few caps in parallel we would be able to light at least 4 ultra bright led's and trickle charge a battery that could be used for a number of things. So say you have these rows of carbon rods in your back yard with some mg blocks running parallel like our latest exp feeding a cap bank consisting of a 3- 5 caps of a large mfd raiting bills are great mine arent even half that big ... .22f is sweet5 of those would give you almost a farad.. That can do some work ... or some sparking .. ha your choice
Joe
Quote from: Artic_Knight on December 24, 2007, 02:34:49 PM
jenna where did you get the water glass? i want that for my sand batteries! (hutchison batteries)
I got the water glass from the chemistry store in South Carolina. It cost about $10 but the shipping was about $20! Lehman's Non-Electric also sells it.( In the 1800's it was commonly used to extend the life of eggs without refrigeration.) also frostic.com has it. I searched google to find these.
Quoteim working on making a tesla coil now (not sure if i said this) i will be able to post some neat experiments in a few days. my verison of the tesla is the main conducting coil grounded to a single pole earth cell and the secondary (charging) coil hopefully will produce large currents.
Excellent. If you decide to post it on a tesla coil thread, please notify me here when you do.
@Joe,
I really can't find the tpu thread you are talking about. Please send me the link so I might read along.
thanks
Also, did I missunderstand?
QuoteSo say you have these rows of carbon rods in your back yard with some mg blocks running parallel like our latest exp feeding a cap bank
I thought Bill was up to now still working with just the one cell? If his single cell is enough to stimulate the charge through a micro tpu with parallel caps etc. Please put it all out including the tpu circuit.
Also, did you make this tpu for yourself yet?
I have a small "astable multivibrator " that I made in that high school class. It was made to run on a 3v or 9v battery (I don't remember) but it should be easy to change if that is all. But, I think your other group must be using a chip ? Please give the details? -or where to find them.
nevermind. I think I found them
The night is still young, I will look some more before R and the sleigh come to pick me up :D
Have a good one.
thanks
jeanna
@ jenna
Here is the link for you http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3599.585.html and a kind member named groundloop has already posted a circuit diagram for us in that thread... sweeet
Merry christmas
WHAT DO I WANT .... I WANT SAMSON
[img]Hello again,
Hartiberlin, I have a el-cheapo digital meter Actron had it set on DCV side of scale on 20 to get voltage and 200 m to get amps. I'm thinking that 200 m means millamps. So does the reading that I got mean nearly 1 amp it was something like .997 ?
Yes there is a power pole in the back yard about 50 feet from my test site. Does this cause problems? Don't mean to sound dumb just haven't had time to read all of the post.
No Jeanna I didn't try for a control but I will before bed tonight.
Thanks Georgemay, it's been a long time since I saw a couple of guys cutting a rather large piece of underground pipe with these rods, didn't really know what they were called and now that you've mentioned it there was a large air compressor being used at the same time.
It's funny that I would come across that piece of gouging rod in the storage shop of the place that we just bought.
Jeanna, we're in SW Louisiana just move here from Mobile Al, Gulfport Ms before that thanks to Katerina.
Can some one tell a dumb cajun how to post a pic of meter and rods?
I promise not to call you dumb but i reserve the right to say "press any key to begin",Hey wheres the any key..
Welcome and hello,
If you look below the text window while you reply you will see the Attach:_________________ thing with a browse button next to it on the right, just hit that and then find the file you wanna attach in the window it pops open for you. Then after you select the file and confirm it just hit post like normal
Thanks and Merry HO HO Day
Joe
sid10:
My understanding of your meter reading would be .997 milliamps if on the 200 milliamp scale. That's the scale I was on when I got about 2 point something mA. If I am wrong about this please, others correct me. If correct, that's still good because we hear all the time that you can get volts and NO amps. Well, you got amps, mA which is nothing to sneeze at in my opinion. Did you also try the ac scale to see what you get? I believe the jury is still out on this one. Some books I read say all meters (digital) will read some ac on dc voltage. Others say no, if it reads ac, there must be ac there. I did check a AA battery and it showed a reading on the ac scale so, I am not sure about this at all. We may be seeing pulsed dc, or possibly an ac component. This is why it is good to have many experiment here to find this stuff out. I look forward to hearing of your experimetal results.
@ Joe:
Which key is the any key? My keyboard does not appear to have one. Can I order one from ebay? (just kidding)
Bill
I think this lady would be a reliable source to help you find the any key
I have been following the Micro TPU thread, but saw Joe's post and decided to check out this thread.. I see that you have both electrodes in the ground.. what would happen if you have one high, like on top of a flag pole and one in the ground??
4Tesla
@Joe
LOL.. Is that your great grandmother? ;D
4Tesla
@ 4Tesla:
In response to your question, I will quote the legendary Albert Einstein and say "I don't know." My guess would be nothing but, since I have not tried it, I can't really say. We have tried "air" tests of the electrodes and got nothing. But, one in the ground....hmmmmm.
Welcome to this topic. I believe we are making some progress here. Unlike a lot of the other topics, this is very easy and cheap to replicate to obtain some results. We need all of the experimenters that we can get. Yours is a good idea, I am just trying to think of how I can test it.
Bill
G'day all,
I have just finished my latest essay in the Stubblefield series, this one looks at Helmholtz and the Meyer device in detail. All I have to do now is format my graphics, upload them to my website and post. Sometime tomorrow perhaps, as it is getting very late.
Wishing you all a merry Christmas and all the best for the new year
Hans von Lieven.
Hey now, you wouldn't want to be talkin about my great grand ma that way. She has a really ugly 12 gauge right next to the sofa. Still meaner than a badger too.
;D ;D ;D
thaelin
I was just thinking, perhaps the ground is acting as a capacitor, so if we take the energy too fast, we drain that capacitor. Maybe if we take the energy in pulses, from each module producing current, then pair all those pulses together into one line. Perhaps the energy will replenish itself fully before the next pulse of energy is taken. Just an idea, I could be way off.
@freezer
The mini tpu would draw from the cap bank at the rate we designed it to .... so thats what it does in a very efficent way. but mind you if our cap bank was even only .22 f worth of capactiance the mini tpu would not drain the cap even close to half from its first needed input so i see this as a logical way to go.
@jenna
Good thinking 99 with that multivibrator circuit, bentzer from that thread had wanted to try that but not for our scenario. So yes try it ! And they are not using an ic 555 or anything like that there are transistors and mofsets tho not real bad stuff to deal with ... Bill is still using one cell but i guess my point was regardless of our starting tension/voltage the current we can store is as big as the resivor we give it to go into , and a device like that mini tpu or a regenerative boost transformer would probably be ideal to get some usable power... ON a small scale we can build this so its back yard worthy and a portable device to bring wherever device.. PLUG AND PLAY
But on a large scale i do not want to pay niagra mohawk for the rest of my life thats why im saying if this initial prototype goes well over what im guessing will take the better part of the next month or so , i will seriously consider an array of cells and multiple boost transformers connected to a battery bank then inverter. The caps needed to make that work may have to be home made ones for that kinda storage so im waiting till a bit down the road to get that ambitious. But thats the game plan.
Joe
Stubblefield continued:
G?day all,
Here is my next essay in the Stubblefield series. As you might remember, what started out as a simple project looking into Earth Batteries turned up Stubblefield. It became evident that the Stubblefield device was more than a simple galvanic battery using the earth as an electrolyte.
The main proof of this was that Stubblefield took his energy from a secondary coil, which indicates the presence of an alternating, or pulsed current, which galvanic action cannot generate. He was not the only one that did this. (see earlier posts)
Following that line of research and trying to track down the origin of these oscillations turned up a number of devices where inventors allegedly made use of this phenomenon in different ways, unconnected with earth batteries. There appeared to be a principle at work that so far is unacknowledged by conventional science.
Starting with the assumption that all these people could not have been ?pissing in the wind? as it were, as many of them had demonstrated working devices which science was at a loss to explain, I felt it necessary to re-examine the laws of conservation of energy.
The concept of conservation of energy was first expressed in detail by Hermann von Helmholtz (1821-1894) in his seminal book ?Ueber die Erhaltung der Kraft? (On the Conservation of Force) published in 1847.
Helmholtz? paper rests squarely on the philosophical considerations of Parmenides (ca. 510 ? 450 BC). Parmenides is best known for his famous statement, here in Latin, which is the famous version, ?ex nihilo nihil fit? (out of nothing comes nothing).
Parmenides reasoned further: Since nothing can come from nothing and since there are evidently things in existence, a nothing as such (a perfect vacuum if you wish), cannot exist in nature. Modern quantum mechanics says the same.
The corollary to this is, that if a something cannot come from a nothing, and since a nothing cannot exist, a something cannot turn into a nothing and therefore must be eternally present.
This applies to everything, matter, energy, thought and whatever else. These things must have an eternal existence though they can change form.
This is the philosophical foundation of the conservation of energy laws. Incidentally, this is also the foundation for Socrates? (ca. 470 ? 399 BC) famous dissertation on the immortality of the soul.
But back to Helmholtz.
Helmholtz, by way of a number of examples of real devices, shows that all of the energy in a system can be accounted for.
This is all well known, so why am I bringing this up here?
Because this is not all that Helmholtz said. In seeming contradiction to his entire dissertation he makes, in the same volume, the following statement:
If the natural bodies also exhibit forces (Kraefte) which depend on time and speed or react in directions other than the straight lines joining each pair of acting material points - eg rotary ones ? then systems of such bodies would be possible in which energy (Kraft) is either lost or gained ad infinitum. (page 19f)
This has been termed by many ?Helmholtz? exception to the rule of the conservation of energy?.
Needless to say that, whilst accepting the body of Helmholtz? work, science refutes this. It is also said that Helmholtz later retracted this statement. This is not true. He merely qualified it in 1881, by saying that this holds only true if Newton?s Third Law of Motion is generally valid.
So what was Helmholtz really saying here?
I do not believe for a minute that Helmholtz meant that there is an exception to the rule of the conservation of energy. His entire dissertation would be pointless otherwise. You do not put out a paper of that magnitude and then invalidate the whole thing with one sentence in the same breath.
Helmholtz was no ordinary academic. He was an experimenter and inventor. He invented amongst other things the Helmholtz resonators, Helmholtz coils and the ophthalmoscope, a device that can look at the retina, which is still used today by doctors worldwide in almost unchanged form. In other words a practical man as well as an intellectual giant.
Because of his outstanding contribution to the sciences the German Kaiser bestowed upon him the inheritable aristocratic title of ?von?, an honour rarely bestowed for reasons other than political or commercial.
Helmholtz never gave any reasons for this statement; if he did, nothing has been recorded, but he would not have said something like this lightly.
Somewhere in his experiments he must have found evidence of this, though probably he could not gather sufficient proof to demonstrate the principle to his peers.
What he meant, in my view, is, that under certain circumstances when forces meet on specific vectors a gate opens which allows energy of enormous magnitude to escape from, or to, an underlying energy field (the ether if you wish) that has the potential of being exploited. Thus, the conservation of energy laws are still operational, though seemingly violated.
This is the mechanism I am trying to track down. There is evidence that this phenomenon is real. Since we do not understand the precise conditions that must be set up for this to occur, many of the discoveries that have been made in this area are not reproducible and have come about by chance.
I have just come across a device which, if real, might give us an opportunity to investigate this very thing and nail down, at least in part, some of the requirements for successful exploitation.
The device is remarkable for its utter simplicity. It was invented by Roy J. Meyers and patented in 1913. He called it an ?Absorber?. It has an interesting history.
Robert A Nelson writes:
Almost 100 years ago, Meyers served a 3-1/2 year sentence in the Arizona state prison at Florence. Before his incarceration, he had already invented an improved trolley wheel head that prevented it from jumping off the wire. While he was imprisoned, he was inspired to invent a device that would draw electricity from the atmosphere. He conferred with Superintendent Sims and Parole Clerk Sanders, and convinced them to give him the opportunity to develop his idea in a wooden shed on the grounds of the penitentiary. Within a few weeks, using easily available materials (chrome steel magnets and iron wire), he constructed the first crude working model, and used it to spark the gas engines of the prison's pump house. His second model developed 8 volts.
Miss Kate Barnard, who was State Commissioner of Charities and Corrections of Oklahoma, was a guest of Superintendent Sims at the time, and she saw the machine in operation. Miss Barnard was so impressed by it and by Meyers' essential integrity (despite the lapse that had gotten him imprisoned) that she told the story of Roy Meyers when later she appeared before the Arizona legislature to address them concerning prison reform. The legislature and Governor Hunt were convinced to grant Meyers an unsupervised leave of absence for 30 days to travel to Washington DC in order to apply for a patent.
Meyers gave this account of his trip:
"When I arrived in Washington and laid my plans before the patent office experts, they merely smiled and told me that I would have to build a model and demonstrate my claims --- that it seemed strange that I, unknown as I am in the electrical world, should have accomplished the things for which Edison, Tesla and other experts have been striving for years.
"They could not grasp the meaning of my drawings nor the explanation I tried to make to them. There was little time to spare, as I had only 20 days left of my leave, but I set to work in a few days was able to take a crude model around to the patent office to make a demonstration.
"Arriving at the patent office I telephoned to a friend who had been so kind as to introduce me and aid me in reaching the proper officials. The absorber was hoisted on two short poles and made to work. While they were as yet unable to understand the principles involved and hardly willing to believe their eyes, they were forced to admit that I had something new and different, and they told me that there would be no further objection; that I might file my application without further delay.
(Technology World Magazine, 1912)
I have tracked down the patent and already published it here in the forum in an earlier post. This is my analysis:
Meyers shows two embodiments in his patent. A basic version that is said to work and a more sophisticated version, somewhat different in design. The drawings in the patent are rather crude and untidy and because of this difficult to understand. I have created new graphics that show more clearly what is involved.
This is the bare bones version:
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fkeelytech.com%2Foverunity%2Fmyersabsorber.jpg&hash=020031f3520918a0c1ee8d40401c2b980fde0a02)
The diagram is self explanatory. Meyers says nothing about the length of iron wire between the magnets though they do not seem to be critical and can be quite short, say 3 or 4 feet. Alignment with the earth?s magnetic field is essential within a few degrees. It does not have to be perfect. The device is said to work better if somewhat elevated but it is a difference in performance, not workability.
The second drawing is far more intriguing and revealing. Here it is:
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fkeelytech.com%2Foverunity%2Fmyersabsorber1.jpg&hash=4b6639d1fcb7743ee812d3381d772dce40c78eab)
In this device we see a departure from the original layout. The left hand side shows the ?antenna? in diagrammatic form, the left is the rectifier circuit as schematic.
The ?antenna? can be used on its own or as part of an array. The units (as drawn) can be arranged horizontally, vertically or both. The zinc plates should be folded as shown and arranged with ?their mouths open? towards North and South. It does not matter which way the magnets face, South to magnetic North or South to magnetic South, the effect is the same. The zinc plate circuit must be electrically insulated from the magnet circuit.
The rectifier circuit is a standard bridge rectifier with a difference. In the patent Meyer uses mercury vapour valves but states that other elements can be used. What makes the circuit different are his ?intensifiers? which consist of bifilar wound coils wound on an insulating coil former or a steel tube. I am not an electronics engineer but I would venture to suggest that the coils, wired as shown, would act as a condenser rather than a coil. If substituting the coils with condensers would give the same effect I cannot say at this stage.
Comments:
The first thing that comes to mind is Meyer?s unorthodox use of magnetism. He insists that his wires are magnetic conductors such as iron wire and then connects them to a point on his magnets where there is no magnetism.
Let us have a closer look at his ?antenna?
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fkeelytech.com%2Foverunity%2Fbecomeone.jpg&hash=2eca6fee65af58b0d6ab599af2cea4346721ab7d)
It is well known that if you join two magnets they become one. Similarly if you cut a magnet in half you will not get one south magnet and one north magnet but two magnets with south and north each. By joining the two magnets with an iron bridge they become one as in the diagram above.
Now let us have a look at the magnetic fields of his two designs:
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fkeelytech.com%2Foverunity%2Fmidpoint.jpg&hash=2685f2f491dcb601b07957adc6c713d31d89e4a5)
This is where my analysis of Meyer?s device becomes speculative. Meyer is evidently connecting the neutral zones between the poles of his magnets with a magnetic conductor. It is as if he is creating some sort of ?neutral channel?. He is clearly expecting the flow he is channelling to have at least partly a magnetic nature. This flow would have to be perpendicular to the magnetic flux of the magnets because this is where the channel is.
If Helmholtz is right with his assertion this is exactly the kind of place where the phenomenon he talks about is likely to occur.
We know Helmholtz invented the Helmholtz coil. It looks like this:
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fkeelytech.com%2Foverunity%2Fhelmholtzcoils.jpg&hash=7b57032c04492378b5c4cc638b24579f48177a6e)
There is some odd behaviour associated with this coil arrangement when the coils are moved to a specific distance from each other. Perhaps he discovered something strange there. From a magnetism point of view there is no difference between the coils and Meyer?s magnet. The arrangement is the same.
In the Helmholtz device as in the Meyer device something strange occurs at the midpoint.
There is another well known device where something strange happens at the midpoint between poles.
The Faraday disk.
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fkeelytech.com%2Foverunity%2Ffaradaydisk.jpg&hash=569f3cc534ddf93e1f197c912618d109b2c0f637)
The Faraday disk presents a paradox that has never been satisfactorily explained.
The paradox is this:
If you turn the disk as shown at the midpoint of a magnetic field an electric current is generated between the axle and the rim of the disk.
If the disk is stationary and the magnet is revolved around the disk there is no electricity, though the relative movement is the same.
And now it gets really weird. If you revolve the disk with the magnet there is electricity again, even though there is no relative movement between the two components.
The question is, where is the electricity coming from?
When you really look at it Meyer?s device looks very much like a Faraday disk except it is stationary.
Maybe in Meyer?s device the earth does the spinning for you.
You see, when you align the device north ? south, as you must, the earth?s spin is perpendicular to the magnetic flux and in line with the ?channel?, just like a Faraday disk spinning with the magnet!
Perhaps, just perhaps, Helmholtz is right and we are on the right track.
Hans von Lieven
Hans .... dam you for being so good.. Stellar report absolutely stellar the end with the paradox is my favorite its physical evidence of vortex theory ...
So your three examples of Faraday's disk show proof of an ether and even more that thats where the energy is released from....
The disk has to spin to move the ether as far as i can tell. And a magnetic field must be present thus the example with the cb antenna magnet with the soft iron shell. That would be the same as example 3
Im picturing a vortex at a 90 degree angle from the disk in between the magnet poles for the first example ...
The second doesent work because the disk has to do one of two things to open the vortex!
Either move by itself and break an existing flux field thus the one existing between the poles of the permanent magnet shown in example 1 from Hans
OR
Move with the flux feild of the magnet in synchronous orbit... Shown in example 3 from hans On this example i guess i would have to say the vortex would be above and below the disc surrounding the perimeter.
Thats my explaination of the paradox if i have solved it merry christmas
Now example 4 for instance im making this one up because i feel it is left out. Just like the disk like in example 3 has the magnet moving around it and it is spinning on its axel but by a motor at a much faster speed and the magnet is kept moving along a circular linear track i think we have antigravity.....
For every action there is an equal and opposite re action wow hans I'm blown away, this really helped me understand some concepts better. My ideas on where the physical vortex placement may be wrong but i believe that the rest is dead on.
Joe
G'day Joe,
Thanks for your kind words.
Did you know that Helmholtz wrote a book called "?ber Wirbelbewegungen (1858)" (about vortex movement) which is the foundation of hydrodynamics and modern vortex theories. Unfortunately I have only found the German original, though translations must exist. I haven't found one yet as I don't know the English title.
As you quite rightly point out, this is exactly where our investigations are leading and in one of my coming essays I will try to get into this subject.
Incidentally, Victor Schauberger's work is based on Helmholtz.
Hans von Lieven
Ok Hans... We need to establish an exact or close time line.. of people an physics direction of their research ether or non ether and people they may have drawn from and discoveries in that timespan .. This may yield even more from our current findings.. Bill as an investigator, I'm sure you would agree. Much easier to follow changes and developments with that tool.
To anyone new to this thread or newer please don't take some of our physics discussions as thinking were not doing the same experiments or changing our direction... We often like to keep this thread open for experiment and Relative theory in an happy way and it has thus far worked exceptional.
Joe
vdc record of 2.19 volts!!! I have tried to post these pics and had written a very long reply that get dummped into the aether when I try to post!! It says," cannot locate overunity.com" Then I hit my back button and try to post and it says"this is a dublicate post" which it is not because it did not post the first time!!!! If this picture comes up ok, I will re-write my other posts.
Bill
duplicate post. 5 attempts to get a post on here, Stefan something is going on.
The Pic is there. The website is acting fruity .. who knows... awesome bill this is getting better by hr If you cant get your post up you can e-mail it to me at that address i sent you and i will try to post it for you. Merrrrrry Christmas!
Merry Christmas all
I am attmpting to re-write this post I have tried many times to get up but keep getting kicked out of the site for some reason.
I wanted to post something special here on Christmas so I took my carbon rod (17" long) and dug it up and cut it in half (2 pieces 8.5" long) I did this because I could not sink the rod any deeper without risking damage and still had about 6" or rod sticking out. Now, I have both rods sunk all but 1/2" to tie on to. I only have one mag. block, looking for another but for today, I used 2 12" long zinc coated spikes. I created two cells side by side (about three feet apart) alligned on the n/s meridian as before. The zinc and the carbon are about 5 feet apart on this line. I tied the two carbons together with a jumper off of each to the plus probe on the meter. I did the same with the zinc to the neg. probe on the meter. 1.10 vdc!!!!!! That's all. But, on each cell alone I get 1.45 vdc and 2.4 mA (Not .24) So, I am sitting there still not knowing how or why this type of series setup is not working when I get an idea. The idea was suggested here a few times by several and I also believe Stubblefield mentioned it a time or two. I took an old 9v battey I had lying around and wired it to my new cell. (the one on the right) I let it charge for about 45 seconds and then waited. I took a reading. (the one in the picture in the above post) Now, don't get too excited just yet. there is good news here and a little bad. The level began to fall off (bad news) but appeared to stabilize around 1.83 vdc. So, now I am thinking about hooking up my car battery charger to the house current and pumping in some 12 vdc and some heavry amps. Maybe the cell will go up to 9 vdc and then drop down to 3 or 4 and STAY there? Maybe I will short out my neighborhood? Oh, the mA actually went down a bit after the 9v battery boost to 2.1 mA. I have a picture I took of the carbon rod after I cleaned it. It showed NO sign of deterioration of any kind after being hooked up in the cell for a few months. This is good I believe. I will post that pic. in a seperate post as I really don't want to write all of this again for the 3rd time!!!
@ Hans:
Great post man, I will go back and read it carefully, I just wanted to get this news up as fast as possible and have been having a heck of a time with the site for some reason. Anyone else having trouble?
Bill
Carbon rod showing no visible deteriation after two months in the cell. This is right before I cut it in half. I tried posting this several times so hopefully it will show up.
Thanks for the offer Joe, I think it is working now...or...we'll see.
Merry Christmas all!!! Today, I will drink a toast to all of my fellow experimenters here on overunity.
Bill
@ bill when was the meter reading from ?
http://www.icehouse.net/john34/stubblefield.html
pese
Quote from: Pirate88179 on December 25, 2007, 05:09:06 PM
So, I am sitting there still not knowing how or why this type of series setup is not working when I get an idea.
Hi Bill,
I did experiments a couple of years ago with electrodes in soil and was frustrated by the fact that I could not get series circuit to work.
What you've got is a common medium so there is no way to setup a series circuit. You have to isolate the medium in one segment from the other.
I also plotted voltage over 500' foot straight line runs sampling voltage every 10 feet with reference to one point and observed reversal in polarities occasionally. If I'm remembering correctly it turned out the clay will cause a reversal of polarity which is interesting.
I mainly used copper clad welding rods and zinc coated rods in the experiments. I also tried 30oz copper plates 15" x 15".
I think if you run your electrodes east and west you will observe something interesting. I believe that the west electrode will always give you a positive polarity (I may not be remembering the correctly).
I also ran across a fairly extensive study pertaining to mapping polarity of regions of the earth. I'll try to find it and send it your way (not at my computer at the moment).
-Duff
@ pese
Thanks but we posted that link in the thread earlier somewhere. There is some great info there if anyone hasn't seen it. As well the modulated earth current and using it as a carrier is a great idea were just not there yet . All with good time thanks again and merry christmas
joe
Quote from: duff on December 25, 2007, 07:47:50 PM
What you've got is a common medium so there is no way to setup a series circuit. You have to isolate the medium in one segment from the other.[
-Duff
Sorry Duff,
but this is not correct. In your typical 12 V car battery you have several galvanic cells in series sitting in a common electrolyte. This is not where your problem is.
Hans von Lieven
@hans: great work on your last post! It's nice to see various technologies using similar concepts, and gives hope to me that we will get to the bottom of it.
I had a thought about the faraday disk - I think the disc itself is made of copper. When there is a changing magnetic field then a current is generated. By rotating the disc there is a changing magnetic field because the outer rim is spinning faster than the inner rim and the whole thing is rotating so even though there would probably be no torque we'd still get current. I remember reading that the faraday disc gave huge amounts of current and about .6 volts (actually, that's the N machine, but isn't the concept similar?)
@ Joe:
The high meter reading (2.19vdc) was taken just after I charged the right cell with the 9 volt battery. I disonnected the battery and then took that reading. Do you think the 12 volt side of the car battery charger is worth a try? I.m sure I'll be back to better regular reading once I get another magnesium block.
@Duff:
Thanks for the info. I look forward to getting the other information as well.
@Hans:
That is an excellent point about the 12 volt car battery. I know you have mentioned that before. So, knowing you are correct on that, can you think of any reason that I can't get this series setup to work over here? I am simply tieing the two plus carbon rods together and then the two minus zinc spikes together and the meter reading is LESS than either cell alone. I am taking the reading from a lead off of each + and minus side after they are connected together. I am totally stumped by this. It should be reading in the 3 volt range with the two cells. I am still not done reading your post but I am amazed on what I have read thus far. Excellent research!
Bill
@ Bill,
if you connect the carbons and the zincs together respectively you are setting them up in Parallel, not in Series. Series would be copper to zinc to copper to zinc. Furthermore I think you should be measuring your output differently.
If you have, as is likely, an AC component in your flow the meter would not give you an accurate reading. I suggest using a bridge rectifier between your earth battery and the meter, to make sure you get all DC. You only need 4 silicon diodes at around 10 cents each and you are in business. Suitable circuit diagram is on the bottom of this page.
@ akash
Bruce de Palma had been playing around with the Faraday disk for some time. It was him that called it the N-Machine. It never went anywhere.
I do not believe the current scientific theories (there are two main ones) to be correct. There is something else in play here which I am trying to nail down.
Hans von Lieven
@bill mabey each cell meaning pair + - needs a cap so you would retain the 1.45 on each cap and the we could discharge them how ever.. theres a few ways anyways hans has a good idea about the bridge rectifier but i still think the resivor so to say the cap should be connected to the leads and then from that cap into the the retifier. Now hans correct me if im wrong but bill should probably try a non polarized cap . Not sure here but will find out..
Joe
@ Hans:
Thanks for the diagram!
First, I want to say that I finally read your latest installment post. I wanted to give it the time your effort to write deserves. That is mind blowing! All different devices yet exploiting the same phenomenon. I agree with your idea that the rotation of the earth might be where the required movement is coming from. Makes perfect sense to me. Thank you for your research and hard work. I know we are all benefiting from it immensely.
Now, about my "series" connections. You are correct of course but I don't see a way to connect it any other way. what I mean is if I go from carbon (+) to zinc (-) I have a dead short. that is what I tried a while back. I go from carbon on one cell to the zinc on the other and it does not know it is two cells and it is like hooking up a wire from the + on your car battery to the -, not good. Maybe I am missing something basic and simple here (probably) but that is why I tried to just tie all the plus and all the minus electrodes together which is, of course (now that you pointed it out) a parallel connection. Any thoughts on how to connect the + of one cell to the - of the other without a short? Thank you.
Bill
Quote from: hansvonlieven on December 25, 2007, 08:53:38 PM
Quote from: duff on December 25, 2007, 07:47:50 PM
What you've got is a common medium so there is no way to setup a series circuit. You have to isolate the medium in one segment from the other.[
-Duff
Sorry Duff,
but this is not correct. In your typical 12 V car battery you have several galvanic cells in series sitting in a common electrolyte. This is not where your problem is.
Hans von Lieven
Are you sure about that Hans? -
You pop the cap on a cell and check the fluid level or measure density level with a hydrometer of individual cells....
-Duff
G'day Joe,
Perhaps a bit premature thinking about caps. We need to establish first if there is an AC component. If there is, the cap is useless.
Hans
another cajun question, a car battery has 6 cells in series to give 12 volts,but when you check the level of water in the battery it can be lower in one cell than it's neighbor. wouldn't this say that it's not a common electrolite?
sid
I was showing everyone at the Christmas get together how a earth battery works and got a reading of 1.2 volts at 1 amp on one of hte test sites. This was about 100 feet from a power line in my inlaws front yard, really wet ground.
If the any button works there should be a picture of my meter there showing the position for reading amps? as well as showing position for reading DC volts.
Quote from: duff on December 25, 2007, 09:45:12 PM
Are you sure about that Hans? -
You pop the cap on a cell and check the fluid level or measure density level with a hydrometer of individual cells....
-Duff
The reason why you top up each cell as it were is that the separators are microporous and it would take a long time for the fluid to fill the entire battery if you only topped up one. The reason for the porous separators is to stop particles building up in one section of the battery and shorting it. The electrolyte is common to all.
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fjgdarden.com%2Fbatteryfaq%2FEurobat.jpg&hash=20c190cbdfdeb7335c0fccb7c55b8c35fddc99d8)
Hans von Lieven
@ Bill
Nice experiments! Hans is correct about wiring in series. I have read the entire thread, start to finish, and my number one question was why no one has attempted to wire in series for more voltage and parallel for more amperage...after all, the ground it the limit! ;D I also think that anyone testing this should indeed use a full bridge rectifier to measure the output.
Now, if it does not allow you to wire in series or parallel, as Duff suggested in his last post, It would make me think "ocean". For example, an ocean battery with say zinc and the other electrode of carbon, will also give a small voltage. But if you put another one next to it and attempt to wire in series it will not work. Now, if you take an egg carton, place small holes into each of the egg holders, add a small sponge and place each electrode in it's own cell, then it will work just fine. The whole point is there still may need to be designed a way to individualize each earth cell.
Also, another thought I have, is after looking at the patents through the thread, the ones that actually seemed to draw real power from the earth all seemed to do so through induction. Perhaps wrapping a coil or even ferrite or iron core, and tapping off of that with a secondary and see if the output is any different, would be a useful experiment.
Anywho, I am on holiday with the family until after the first of the year. The first thing that I will do when I return home, is to make my micro TPU self run forever, using a ground battery. It has me very excited. I am waiting on Litz wire to wind a SM TPU, and this will keep me occupied until it's arrival.
Has anyone tried simple wire, instead of rods? If it is a function of surface area, which still needs to be proved IMHO by more experiments, then using bundled copper wire and bundled carbon or zinc would would give you MUCH greater surface area, than one large piece. Again, here, think of bubbles. One large bubble verses five small bubbles that fit inside the big bubble, which has the greater surface area? The small bubbles. If you used a bundle of copper wire, tied together and placed into the hole the surface would be larger. Of course, if you can find a way to wire in series or parallel, or both, that is the way to go. If it does not allow you to, find the distance you would have to go to do so. That too would be interesting.
P.S. If it is a function of surface area and you prove this beyond doubt, I would suggest using nano particles. These come in zinc or nickel and the company can bake it onto metal objects, pipes, plates, etc. Anywho, these can give you the surface area of several hundred yards on one square foot of material. Just a thought towards the future. Your carbon rod should already have incredible surface area, by its very nature. You may want to take a gander at a little piece under a microscope, if you have one and see what its surface looks like.
Well, Merry Christmas, and thanks localjoe for the idea. I am itching to return home and hook this to my oscillator! ;)
Keep experimenting!
Bruce
darn any button!
Sid10,
??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Hans
maybe i should read to the bottom of the page before i try to correct someone who's been at this probably much much longer than me. I'm still trying to figure out how to read this meter.
I did get a chance to read Stubblefield's patent today and it sent my mind reeling.
Please forgive me if I am just repeating what others have already said, if you could get a steady 1.5 volts at 1 amp out of his electrical battery and feed it to the pulse timer, that was just posted, then feed the output from the timer to a bank of capacitors and use the capacitors to run some super efficient led type home lighting system, or charge a bank of deep cycle batteries that would feed a inverter....
does any of this make sense? or am I wayyy off base?
Sid
whadya no any button worked, That you need to use a fiel format as small as possible to prevent time outs didn't occure to until my 11 yeas old told me so.
Kids what will they come up with next
Sid
someone asked if a led can be photovoltaic the answer is yes if its green. I came across a site that sells sun tracking devices for large PV arrays and it was using a set of three green LEDs as a means of turning the tracking motor on and off.
Humm spell check button wonder what that one does?
@Hans
Ok - you are correct. I arrived at an incorrect conclusion...
Perhaps I should have said that I was never able to accomplish was a series circuit using rods in a common medium.
-Duff
Quote from: Pirate88179 on December 25, 2007, 09:44:53 PM
(snip)
Now, about my "series" connections. You are correct of course but I don't see a way to connect it any other way. what I mean is if I go from carbon (+) to zinc (-) I have a dead short. that is what I tried a while back. I go from carbon on one cell to the zinc on the other and it does not know it is two cells and it is like hooking up a wire from the + on your car battery to the -, not good. Maybe I am missing something basic and simple here (probably) but that is why I tried to just tie all the plus and all the minus electrodes together which is, of course (now that you pointed it out) a parallel connection. Any thoughts on how to connect the + of one cell to the - of the other without a short? Thank you.
Bill
@ Bill
If you take a hypothetical, of two batteries and connect a lead from the positive of one and the negative of the other, and measure output there, or tie them together, it will alway look like a short, until you measure the output from the negative of the one the the positive of the other.
It may indeed not work as I posted earlier, but it must be tried. Just connect carbon to zinc and then measure the output of the other carbon and zinc and see if you have garnered more voltage. You also should attempt an amperage reading while you had them wired in parallel and see if it was increased.
Christmas Cheers,
Bruce
Yikes! three pages in one day as I looked away! where to begin?
First Thank you Hans for a superb article.
I took my wired copper pipes and wired zinc nail outside in the snow flurries today. In a very brief amount of time I checked a few things and then I had to leave for the day, which is why this post comes afterr all those very useful ideas discussed today.
Results report follows:
I have 2 copper pipes and 1 zinc coated spike to which I soldered one copper wire each.
I arranged these elements together to see if I could see any voltage above the zero that I got 6 weeks ago (and again more recently) when I tried to put them together in 'series ' style.
So, the first was another control that I get about o.9v with the cu - zn cell.
Then I put 2 cu pipes with their wires next to the cu pipe that is still in the ground (that's 3 cu pipes connected) and then put the zinc with its soldered wire up against the last cu pipe and I got 0.45v. WHAT? Is that what one leg of a parallel circuit shows? I really want to repeat this with photos. It started to rain so I stopped. I sure hope the sky lets up a bit tomorrow. I am not satisfied that I have done justice to this since I ran it only once before it rained.
I will also repeat something else, ?I think ? I had cu - zn - cu and got a lot of fluctuations from 0.45v to zero and back up to 0.25v -- very active.
Last night and today, I was thinking that if I could set up a cap for each cell and then have the caps somehow join their charges into a single cell, or an array of some kind, it might get us somewhere. (And I come to find out you have been talking about this all day) I find this whole group is thinking together. And THAT is how we will succeed!!!
I also think we should do some coils along with this. Hans has given us a lot to work with and if there is a tesla coil person (was that you Arctic_Knight ) it would be great. It won't be straight up I suspect, but some tesla coil experience in here might help.
I don't know that I ever used a rectifier but it should be easy enough to find out how. It may indeed give some extra voltage.
I also re-read Tom Bearden's treatice about how to get charge from the source and then use the charge without depleting the source. It is so simple and brilliant. In it he makes the point that the amperage doesn't "happen" until there is a way for it to move in a direction. We need only look for voltage in our meters and the amperage will be something we can get from it by running a circuit properly from it.
looking forward to more,
jeanna
Quote from: Pirate88179 on December 25, 2007, 09:05:33 PM
@Duff:
Thanks for the info. I look forward to getting the other information as well.
Bill,
I could not find the exact document I was thinking of but here something you might find interesting.
Patent 3,361,957
Telluric current response device having spaced conductors for positioning adjacent the earth's surface.
-Duff
Wow! So many great posts here on Christmans day. What a dedicated group of experimenters and researchers we have here.
@ Bruce:
I'm glad you joined us. I have been following your work on the micro tpu topic with much interest. Very nice work over there. I will follow your suggestion and see what happens. It is an easy experiment to do. I will also check the amps reading in para. also. I just thought that if I connect + to the - it would short the cell and I would get nothing. I beleive I attempted this a while back but, now that I have 2 exactly the same cells to work with (same materials and same surface area on same allignment) it might turn out differently. What I was picturing in my mind was like taking two car batteries and running a lead from + to _ on each and then measuring volts but, if I did that the wire would melt. In my scenerio I guess one would go from + on one bat. to - on the other and visa versa. That works as this is how they run golf carts on multiple batteries in series, right? But, no way to know without trying and I will do so. Your tpu knowledge will come in handy for us here before it's over I'm sure.
@sid10:
Nice photo of the meter. That is the setting I used (mA) when I measured my amps and I believe my figure of 2.5 (or thereabouts) was in milliamps. I don't recall the figure you had, I think it was like .9 amps? This, on this scale would be .9 milliamps. You electrical guys can correct me if I am wrong about this. Otherwise this would mean I am getting 2.5 amps which I do not believe to be true. Your point about leds being photovoltaic is correct. I tested a few of my red and blue ones and got several millivolts by just using a maglight flashlight shinning on it. Amazing little things these leds. you may be right about the green maybe a better yeild. I don't have any of those and could not try it.
@ Jeanna:
Wow, you are doing a lot of work out there!!! According to the galvanic chart I have here, which was posted way, way back, you will probably get .9 vdc from these materials. I am not saying that this is galvanic, or just galvanic at all. I am doing a bit better than what the chart shows but it is a good base reference. So maybe you will get about 1.1 or so. But, if you are able to hook into series, then, who knows???? The fluctuations you mentioned interest me. This might be exactly what Hans is speaking of when telling us to measure using the rectifier bridge. (Gee, a year ago, if you told me I would be typing the words rectifier bridge, I would have thought you were crazy as I didn't even know what one was) Could it be that my led circuit with the cap is almost acting like a rectifier of some sort? You know, a diode and a cap.? I only have one cap. but am getting more in the near future. (hopefully) I also think that checking for ac using Hans's idea of the audio amp. is a good one to really see if any volts are on the secondary. If so, ac present. I wish I had more money for these experiments.
I hope everyone continues to come up with these great ideas. The more experimenters we have, the better we can do. I am seeing some confusing things out in my little garden, but it is trying to tell me something. Once I understand what is really going on, there is no telling what might happen. More experimentation to come.
Bill
@ All
I am sure that you all have seen this already, but I decided to highlight the parts I feel are most relevant for experimenters. No sense in reinventing the wheel.
From Wiki:
"To obtain the natural electricity, experimenters would thrust two metal plates into the ground at a certain distance from each other in the direction of a magnetic meridian, or astronomical meridian. The stronger currents flow from south to north. This phenomenon possesses a considerable uniformity of current strength and voltage. As the Earth currents flow from south to north, electrodes are positioned, beginning in the south and ending in the north, to increase the voltage at as large a distance as possible. In many early implementations, the cost was prohibitive because of an over-reliance on extreme spacing between electrodes.
It has been found that all the common metals behave relatively similarly. The two spaced electrodes, having a load in an external circuit connected between them, are disposed in an electrical medium, and energy is imparted to the medium in such manner that "free electrons" in the medium are excited. The free electrons then flow into one electrode to a greater degree than in the other electrode, thereby causing electric current to flow in the external circuit through the load. The current flows from that plate whose position in the electropotential series is near the negative end (such as palladium). The current produced is highest when the two metals are most widely separated from each other in the electropotential series, and when the material nearer the positive end is to the north, while that at the negative end is towards the south. The plates, one copper and another iron or carbon, are connected above ground by means of a wire with as little resistance as possible. In such an arrangement, the electrodes are not appreciably chemically corroded, even when they are in earth saturated with water, and are connected together by a wire for a long time.
It had been found that to strengthen the current, it was most advantageous to drive the northerly electropositive electrode deeper into the medium than the southerly electrode. The greatest currents and voltages were obtained when the difference in depth was such that a line joining the two electrodes was in the direction of the magnetic dip, or magnetic inclination. When the previous methods were combined, the current was tapped and utilized in any well-known manner.
In some cases, a pair of plates with differing electrical properties, and with suitable protective coatings, were buried below the ground. A protective or other coating covered each entire plate. A copper plate could be coated with powered coke, a processed carbonaceous material. To a zinc plate, a layer of felt could be applied. To use the natural electricity, earth batteries fed electromagnets, the load, that were part of a motor mechanism."
I learned a bunch from those few paragraphs and think to implement this as soon as I return home. Goal: Forever running micro tpu.
Bruce
.
@ Bruce:
Yes, I believe we have seen that before, I know I have because, except for using the plates, that is exactly what I am doing. (as far as I know) + to polar north, - to polar south. The greatest potential is seen when moving the electrodes apart, to a point, at least for me. I have a very small area to work with here at my little apartment. Possibly, if I moved them 200 feet away it might improve yet again and to a higher degree. I have no way to know or find out. I did some testing involving placing the north elecrrode in deeper than the south and did see some improvement, but not a lot. My best is with the carbon rod (now 8.5 inches long) and the magnesium block (only three inches long) I want to get another mag. block to put into the series tests but for now, I am using 2 zinc coated spikes. They are actually deeper than the carbon now, but I had my meter on them when pushing them in and it got better the deeper I went so I kept going.
@ Hans:
A thought just occured to me about Stubblefield. After reading your research post I began to think about a picture I saw of some of Stubblefields earth batteries all laying in a barrel or bucket. It seems obvious to me that he was using them in series to get useful electricity as they appeared to be wired together. So, what if there turns out to be no ac component or even pulsed dc and his "coil" arrangements are nothing more than an efficient "antenna" to receive the telluric currents? As Bruce posted, the way to get more surface area easily is to use coils. A ten turn coil has probably more surface area than an eight foot long piece of metal. What do you think? I know he used two different types of metal in his arrangement and he did that for a reason as well. I don't know why at this point.
@ Duff:
Thanks for the patent info. I will look at it and see what it is.
Bill
@ Duff:
That patent info is great stuff!!!! The first part of the device just looks like a chain-link fence though, ha ha. The one thing at the begining of the patent wording struck me. The telluric currents have diurnal characteristics and move up vertically from the ground toward the sun. I had to look up diurnal and got three different but similar meanings all having to do with the center of the earth and the sun. IF this is true, then my poles should be horizontal not vertical and we should probably be using plates not rods. (harder to obtain) How does this guy "know" this I wonder? Has this been proven do you think? Does anyone here know about this? Thanks again for the info.
Bill
G'day Gentlemen,
I am glad you like my essay, there will be a few more if you wish.
I have noticed that all of you are using digital multimeters. They are terrific, I own one myself, but they are not very well suited for the kind of work you are doing. For what you are trying to find out you absolutely need an analogue meter. It's the next best thing to an oscilloscope.
Let me explain.
A digital multimeter takes a sample of, say a voltage, every second and displays the result. The result is very accurate, and that is where those meters shine. The reason why the sampling rate is so slow is that the display would be unreadable if there were any fluctuations in say the voltage. The figures just would whizz up and down with the voltage and you could not read the numbers.
In an analogue meter the needle moves with the current in real time. This gives you the opportunity to observe fluctuations and trends. The values are not as accurate as in a digital meter since you have only two inches or three of scale to work with, therefore the resolution is poorer. But for observing movement in the current there is nothing like it. In the old days we had a lot of nicknames for certain needle phenomena. There was the tick, the fall, the long fall, the hiccup, the floating needle and so forth. They all meant something.
I would strongly suggest you guys go out there and get one of those things. It does not have to be an expensive one since all you want to do with it is to observe trends. For precise measurements you have your digital one.
You should be able to find something reasonable for about twenty bucks or so. I guarantee you will never regret it.
Have fun
Hans von Lieven
http://www.icehouse.net/john34/stubblefield.html
on end of this paper.
Pese
P.S.
i am very sceptic about this)
Quote from: btentzer on December 26, 2007, 01:14:20 AM
(snip)
It had been found that to strengthen the current, it was most advantageous to drive the northerly electropositive electrode deeper into the medium than the southerly electrode. The greatest currents and voltages were obtained when the difference in depth was such that a line joining the two electrodes was in the direction of the magnetic dip, or magnetic inclination. When the previous methods were combined, the current was tapped and utilized in any well-known manner.
(snip)
Hello all,
Magnetic Inclination:
What is Inclination (I)?
At a given location, the Inclination is the angle between the magnetic field vector and the horizontal plane (the plane is tangent to the surface of the Earth at that point). The inclination is positive when the magnetic field points downward into the earth and negative when it points upward.
Online calculator to determine true North and South for your location. Just enter your zip code:
DECLINATION CALCULATOR AND INCLINATION CALCULATOR:http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/seg/geomag/jsp/IGRFWMM.jsp
What is Declination (D)?
Declination is the angle of difference between true North and magnetic North. For instance, if the declination at a certain point were 10? W, then a compass at that location pointing north (magnetic) would actually align 10? W of true North. True North would be 10? E relative to the magnetic North direction given by the compass. Declination varies with location and slowly changes in time.
Note: Inclination is the angle you want between the bottom of your North electrode and the bottom of your South electrode.
Example: For me, my declination is 3 degrees East and my inclination is 61 degrees. So, to start I want to find my true north, by offsetting my compass by 3 degrees West and there it will be.
I want to set the angle between my bottom electrodes at a 61 degree angle. I hope that helps! ;)
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
Quote from: mramos on December 26, 2007, 10:05:22 AM
Bruce,
The calculator is broken?
I had true north. If I had the rest (angles), I can get the polls the lengths I need before I drive them in. Will try it again. I would love to see current over voltage. But so far no current on the analog meter..
I was shocked the iron and copper worked best voltage wise.
Thanks! It works now! ;)
@ All:
In case some of you newer fellows have not read all of the previous posts here, of which there are many I know, my best readings are 1.82vdc and 2.5 milliamps. My total highest reading was 2.19 vdc but that was after I charged the cell from a 9 volt battery for about 40 seconds. I believe Hans is right about these digital meters. I have an old analog meter in my electronics toolbox that I used years ago. I will dig that out and re-check some things later today if I get a chance. Possibly, it will not read any milliamps at all...we will see.
@ Bruce:
My angle is 3 degrees (declination) here in Kentucky, USA and my angle on the bottom of the electrodes is about 60 degreees, roughly speaking. What I did in the begining as per Localjoe's suggestion was to place an electrode in the ground and then placed my meter probe on it and stabbed around in the ground with the other probe on angles slightly off of magnetic north and, low and behold, my best reading with the meter was 3 degrees. I sank my other electrode along this line, but farther away which also helped. The meter probes only have a limited reach as we all know, but once I established the line, I just stayed aligned with it only at a greater distance. Also, from what I have read, I should not be able to get more than 1.5 vdc if just pure galvanic action here. Plus, check out my picture posted earlier of the carbon rod after being burried in the earth cell for over two months. No sign of destruction as of yet. Could there be microscopic destruction? Sure, but I don't have a microscope to check this. I'll bet if I had it immersed in salt water for that time period with another dissimilar metal, there would be obvious damage.
My list of tests to perform is growing each day. I will try to get out there and knock some of these out and report back.
Bill
G'day Bill,
You should be able to read mA on your meter.
Years ago I did some work in a factory that built these things. Always curious, I had a good look at what they were doing and asked some questions. From memory they were using meter movements that had a full scale deflection of 100 mA. I was told that this was the type of movement most manufacturers used in their multimeters.
So you should be right.
Hans von Lieven
G'day Gentlemen,
Have a look at this patent. It is a patent for an orgone, motor granted in 2006.
The fascinating thing is the perpendicular arrangement of the coils. The sort of thing I have been discussing lately. I have included one of the drawings from the patent to give you an idea what I am on about.
The plot thickens.
Hans von Lieven
I finally purchased some aligator clips on long leads.
I got a solid steady voltage from my set up which is now 3 copper pipes connected to 2 zinc things. Kinda flaky maybe, but it was not any more than just one but for the first time the voltage didn't drop to zero for some reason?? I clipped the graphite pencil to the mag block and got a usual 1.09v.
Bill, did you get a multiplication from multiple pieces of graphite without the charge? I think not. But you also did not get zero .
I am frustrated that I don't have enough for a led. (I must live in a low conduction area or something) so, I found a little piezo buzzer. I was able to hear the most remote click when connected between the copper and zinc.
Ahh - something!
But not much. I don't want to waste this sunny day but I think I will read the patents.
jeanna
Oh and I moved the mag block around. It didn't make much difference but it was its highest in the East - west as well as the north - south directions. Interesting?
double zip on these last 2 experiments.
I don't have red enamel to paint on my pipes, so, for now, I wrapped the pipes and zinc in plastic bags and I got zero volts. Now, there was no earth inside the pipes and the zinc was not inside the pipes, just 4 inches apart but in series. == zero just like inside the house.
then with no plastic bags (just to be sure) just a series of cu zn cu zn and zero v
Thing is it isn't a short I don't think. a short on my meter shows an "I" for infinity over on the far left of the screen.
I am going to have to buy a graphite rod, I guess. I want to find some coal. maybe charcoal will work...
jeanna
Just a thought on your experiments.
How about using your water pipes as one of the terminals. There are many miles of steel pipe buried in the ground that are electrically connected to your pipe system in the house.
You would not be able to connect your batteries in series, as one side of the circuit uses a common terminal, but a parallel arrangement could work.
As I said, just a thought.
Hans von Lieven
@ Hans:
I just popped in for a minute and read your last post. Do you mean to say to use the miles and miles of underground pipe already there to "soak" up this telluric current on one side of the battery???? That is an excellent idea!!!!! I guess we would have to figure out if it was + or - but that would depend on the materials we are using on the other electrode. My carbon rod would still be + I am guessing. One quick thought, what about all of the ac being dumped into the ground via the water pipes in residential houses? I wonder what we will see? I am going to have to make up a pretty long lead to reach from my plumbing to test but...wow. Great idea. I think we all owe you a beer for this one.
@ mramos:
No, I don't think anyone has hit higher than 2.5 mA SO FAR. Ha ha, we are just getting started. And, that is IF the digital meters are reading it correctly. I am going to check with the analog meter but it was too dark when I got in to do it today. I can already light 2 leds...that's something anyway isn't it? If Stubblefield did it, I believe we can do it. I hope your equipment is ok, sand can be a real pain sometimes.
Bill
@jeanna: Coal won't work. I tried it, but what does work and gives some interesting results is activated carbon (used in filters, etc). It has a huge surface area like a carbon rod, but it comes in powdered or granular form. I sprinked some on the earth and stuck my probe in it, it did give me a voltage when measuring against a copper rod.
We most certainly would like to see your pics mramos so we can compare to our setups. Who said we wouldn't want to see them? Any insight or help is always welcome so if you have a chance post your pics and setup. Thanks
Joe
G'day Ladies & gentlemen,
I came across this thread prior to Christmas and it has taken some time to read in it's interity. The numerous links and downloads did not help, especially when one only has dial up :-[
@Cub... how would you like me to respond to that?
mramos:
I know the power is low, thus far. Thanks for the info on the different styles of meters being the same. That is information we did not have to this point. My led, single is as bright or possibly more bright than one of those keychain led lights. Now, with 2 leds, no, not as bright but, the funny thing is that I can short the cap (discharge) and light 1 or 2 leds and the cap charges, or seems to and lights the leds at the same time. After running them a while, I can remove the circuit and carry it into the house and it will still light 1 led very bright (in my opinion) for about 45 minutes off of the cap. alone. It will continue to light for over an hour but, very dim at this point. That is using a small supercap that is the size of a hearing aid battery. I am amazed at this. I am also amazed that you can pump volts into the ground with a battery and, for a while anyway, continue to get a much higher voltage reading off the cell/s. I was telling a friend of mine about this experiment, which I saw as a failure, and he, who had worked for 20 years at IBM repairing computers and office equipment, said that the ground should never hold any energy like that. So, I may continue with my attempt to dump amps as well as volts into the cell using my car battery charger. He said the cell was working like a capacitor and this should not be at all. (my cap circuit was not involved in this experiment) He thinks this is more interesting than lighting a few leds for a while. What do you think? and yes, please post any and all of your information here. You are working in sandy soil which might mean what? Who knows. the pyramid people are using sand in their cells along with graphite/carbon to produce free electricity. And the angles that Bruce posted, I have already been using, since I read about it in the begining of this topic. I can't really say if it helped as I started out doing it that way. I did really enjoy the NOAH link he posted, that is a great tool. My personal opinion is that we all need to max out the volts and the amps the best we can and then, we can move on to coils, tpus, and who knows what else? I respect ANYONE who is out there trying stuff. I think we all do. We need all the help we can get and I would value your input on this project as I know others would as well. Did you get a chance to read any of the Stubblefield stuff from way back? There were a few references to how he was operating numerous arc lights, a telephone system and heating his house all from earth batteries. Is this fantasy or bad history? Possibly...who knows. I just like it because it's easy/cheap to replicate...fairly easy to get better results by tweaking, and I don't think anyone knows were this might end up. Have you tried the tree experiment yet? If you have a decent sized tree, you should be able to get about 1.25 vdc from that to a ground. Come to think of it, I don't believe I ever checked the amps on that one myself. OK, another item on my list.
My point of the original post I made to you was that I feel it is too early to draw any conclusions as of yet. Jeanna is out there experimenting her butt off in the cold. Who knows what she will discover. Anyway, I hope to see your pictures and results of your tests. Thanks.
Bill
welcome cub. Are you joining us in this grounding adventure?
I agree with joe
QuoteWe most certainly would like to see your pics mramos
Thanks for the confidence, Bill, I was feeling discouraged today.
I'm not sure if I want to buy red laquer and paint those pipes. especially if mramos did it just right and got nothing. I am thinking hard about caps in parallel and series and adding inductors to the trip.
I put together a circuit like Bill's this evening. It is amazing how well it works. No, I don't get the time Bill gets but there is no resistor on this setup I'm trying just a green led and 3 volts and that double supercap. I ordered a single one and I will see if that works when it gets here. Somewhere I think there is a way to make a loop of some sort that circles around and gets bigger. It can be fed each time by the earth battery and just grow steadily. It's what my mind is doing.
I will look away for a while (read a book about something else) sometimes that works best.
jeanna
@ Bill
You need not worry about this being galvanic reaction causing the voltage. This is well known in science as someone mentioned earlier, called Telluric Currents. This is used to locate minerals, leaks in pipes, etc. Also, in Texas, it has in the past caused problems with some of our dairy cows. Them poor moo moo's walking around with voltage at their hoofs. ;D Besides, we could increase the power and sell the earth batteries as hillbilly fishing aids. Just add leads to the pond! LOL
In all seriousness, with the bit of reading time I have squeezed in, late at night, it would seem that there are also free electrons in the ground. This I think is good news. I have considered your test with the little battery, and it caused the received voltage to increase after the battery was removed. I will tell you what I am thinking, and I can hear a few groans now, ;) I am thinking Electron tube. This is what I mean by that:
To put it very simply, electrons are released by the heater. They are repelled by a negative plate. But then potential is added to the positive side, and all of those electrons come running over to the positive plate. The greater the potential, the greater the flow of electrons.
If in the ground, (and I have no way to test any of this until I arrive back home in January) we set our Southern electrode for the negative and travel a distance (I own a farm and have a lot of room) and place our positive electrode in the North. We then complete the circuit with resistor, load, whatever and like a tube, place a high voltage potential on the positive plate, perhaps from stored current in a cap, through a circuit, and it releases this pulse of high voltage on the positive plate. This higher potential will attract free electrons in the ground and increase the overall power. Perhaps this is the part of Stubblefield's patent, not there. Add a high potential to them coils and perhaps all kinds of power starts increasing in flow. It also sounds like some of the reports I have read on the incremental increase of power in his system.
But before we think that big, we need to test this theory. Apply a higher voltage, low current to the positive electrode for a short time and see if the overall power increases as I think it should. If it does, then for how long. Then we configure a circuit to pulse HV from a cap that has stored our captured ground current. And use it to multiply power. This is my thoughts and a path that needs to be tested.
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
My Apologies to all this is what should have come through.
G'day Ladies & gentlemen,
I, came across this thread, prior to Christmas and it has taken some time to read it in it's entirety. The numerous links and downloads did not help, especially when one only has to use dial up :-[
This thread appears to the most stable with input and respect from members, compared to some of the other threads and discussion topics that I have read.
Today, unfortunately I sensed some doubt. This should not be so. Collectively, you all have to put a lot of thought into this project.
Owing to my dial up connection, I have been unable to read and hence understand any of the patents, let alone enjoy many of the video's. Rather, at present my limited knowledge relies upon the post's on this thread.
OK What was the potential of the EARTH/AETHER in the past?
Why, should it be any different today, than in the past? IT has been given (the earth) more over the years. What Do we know now? Whom have we followed! WHY? How do we learn again. What are we doing different!! ??
What, do we no longer know, recognise or see. Surely, we must come back to when their was an empathy with this planet.
There was a time where wo/man kind lived a different life, where we were not so pressured by every day hassles, had time to see and observe the world around us To feel, what we were and why existed.
It is our collective loss, it is not only Science, Government but something more!! Perhaps, a connection with this Planet we call home, how we view it, sense it, feel it, absorb it, are to be one with it, call it home, A sense of belonging and simpatico, we must learn to be part of this planet part of it and not merely walk upon it.
Apologies I digress, and indeed will again our mindset compared to those that we are endeavouring to at present to replicate or see from their point of view ad indeed science of the time. Sit back gentle folk, gather up your thoughts and battle on for their are many perturbations to yet be met and overcome. There was an old saying loose yourself before you find youreself.
In parting, for those that are interested in magnesium, if you have access to an Automotive wrecking yard, in the late 60's to late 70's a lot off high quality after market wheel rims were magnesium, if vehicle wrecked with a damaged rim yours for nix, a lot of Mag. for very little.
Unfortunately life very hard at present, I wish you all the very best and will keep an eye on you. :-*
Keep on Keeping on.
Den.
I came up with this design thinking it may work on towers or above ground, maybe it will for what you all are doing here. Just turn them upside down and bury half of them.
G'day nightlife,
could you please tell us: What is the rationale behind your "frequency attraction device"?
Why is it supposed to do what?
Hans von Lieven
hansvonlieven, attract and collect frequencies and or sound waves. The picture is kind of a cut out version of the design I have stuck in my head. The design would be a circle meaning all the components would be wrapped around each other. It should create a turbine affect.
Yes, but how does it do that, what is the scientific principle behind your layout?
Hans von Lieven
hansvonlieven, I revised the picture because I had the polarities wrong. The design is based on the magnetic flux flow. It flows from the ends to the middle and the downward flow is what I based this design on. The downward flow would create a turbine effect and the ferromagnetic material would limit the upward flows attraction to help allow the frequency and or sound waves to flow thru with out a strong resistance. The cores are used to attract the flow. Copper is used for the positive because frequencies flow more freely using copper then the do using Zinc. Zinc is used as the negative because of it's greater resistance capability.
@nightlife i told you once please don't pollute this thread with nonsense ... Go get a account on instructables.com or something and post there or in another thread please your ideas just don't seem to mesh with our gameplan. Thanks
Joe
Localjoe, this thread is based on extracting energy from the earth and all I did was post a design that I thought may help do that.
We dont post things we dont have evidence for tho ... so my point is in YOUR HEAD Doesn't count unless your one of the senior electronics members and you have a brain storm... say one of the folks at the micro tpu thread... or hans for instance ..
@ mramos:
Great shots! You sure have the right equipment for measuring this stuff. One small correction on your post, I ran 45 minutes off the supercap, not 45 seconds. Actually over an hour but the led was very, very dim by that point. The charge time was about 10 minutes or so I believe. (on the earth cell) I will be glad to "attempt" a drawing of my small circuit with the cap specs and led specs and the cell as well. It will look like a drunken third grader drew it however. I really must learn how to use these sketch programs better. I will post it though. Your 60 Hz makes me wonder. No scope here so I don't know what I have. Sounds like Tesla's ac frequency for residential power though does it not? We have read that the earth's freq. should very very low, like 4Hz to 15Hz I think it was. Thanks for posting your work for us.
@ Bruce:
Interesting. I charged the one cell (using old 9 volt bat.) on the neg. electrode. Now I will have to try doing that to the positive side. Hutchinson's crystal batteries are one-time charged with high frequency burst. I wonder if we need that as well? I was going to try to pump some amps down there but maybe just volts is better? A lot of experimentation needed here I think. Electric cows...? Really? That's amazing. Your electron tube concept makes as much sense to me as anything else we are talking about. I mean, why not? Anything is possible in my opinion. I gave up trying to use reason when I saw electricity coming out of my little tree in the front yard.
@ Jeanna:
I was disappointed that my cell did not hold the charge from the 9 volt battery very long, and was slowly dropping but, according to my friend, it should not have held anything at all. So, there is hope and a lot of experimentation to do for everyone I think. Can you reach a water pipe to try Han's idea? I need to make up about a 50 foot lead to do so...lots of resistance there. My plumbing in my little apartment is about as far away from my cells in the garden as it can get.
@ cub3:
You have my sympathies trying to follow this on dial-up. I just obtained dsl about 6 months ago and then discovered this forum, and youtube, and all sorts of things I had no idea existed even though I have been on the internet from its early beginings. I have ATT dsl here in Kentucky, USA for only $10/month USD. That is exactly what I was paying for dial-up. I tweaked my software and made a few hardware changes and now I run dsl (light) 300kbps at 900kbps download speeds and sometimes a little faster. What a difference. You might check into it in your area. You can go to ATT .com and can check your number to see if it will work with dsl.
Bill
@mr amos
Thank you so much for going outside with a scope ;D ive been wishing i had one this whole time.. The rusty iron bar i saw in your pic barley worked for me i was using 12" zinc skew/ carriage bolt and a copper pipe. Our amprege readings were from dead short not off of a resistor so i dotn know how accurate, but when i put the cap hooked to my leads and then the led directly off of it it does light constantly so thats where my ideas for a biger resivor so to say came from, the rate at which the cap is charged is pretty fast and the rate at which the micro tpu would draw from that might not be as fast as the cap recharging itself. Meaning it would have an indefanite supply. My logic could be flawed but thats what i have so far. :)
Joe
Localjoe, I am a trouble shooter by trade so if i was you, I would consider what I suggest before thinking I am just some idiot. There are plenty of designs posted here that have not been tried and I don't see you telling those who posted them that they shouldn't post things that haven't been tested already.
I was only trying to help and I in no way am here to get in a pissing match with anyone. If you would rather I didn't post in your thread then just say it and I will stop posting in your thread.
@ Bill,
Most apartment buildings have an outside tap. Use this. Failing this, the gas or water meters are connected to underground pipes. There are many places where you can tap into the system.
Hans
Its not that i mind you posting.. but all the other ideas here are from patents, previous experiments that worked, or our own replications.. if you had done that exp and told us what the results were. we could then compare it to ours and evaluate but i do not have time to just start guessing based on your frequency's theory... no offense the last post was harsh its just getting outa hand.
Localjoe, I can respect that and please note my electricity theory is what I was referring to as a frequency and what ever electricity may be, that design should be able to attract it based on the fact that magnetic fields attract and move electricity.
I am not saying it would work and i was only throwing it out there for others to consider and or to help give them a brain storm that may be able to utilize the concept.
@ mramos:
With any luck, here is a diagram (crude) of my phase I single cell. If I can't also fit the circuit picture in this post, I will do it in a seperate one. If anything is not clear, please ask me. I am sorry for the terrible graphics here.
Bill
@ Hans:
Good suggestions but, we have no outside water outlets or gas here. There is even no water meter for each apartment which is why we don't pay a water bill. I will figure something out because I really want to try your idea. An entire network of conducting material placed underground alligned every which way, including some polar north and south no doubt, and running for many, many miles. It has to be tried.
Bill
@Bill
>>> how does that work .. i missed someting when jenna was asking all those questions.. hmmmmm i was sticking my led in parallel with the cap and thats waht i told mr amos to try but yours puts it inline hmmm this is different good too cause its another route for me to try ;) ;D
Joe
OK Bill,
very good, now try this:
Hans von Lieven
@ Joe:
I should have been more clear on my photo of the circuit, sorry. I just went from minus side of cap to minus side of led. The reason for the open plus side wire is so I can use it as a crude mechanical switch. When I connect it to the plus leg of the led, it lights. When I charge it on the cell, I can leave it open. (unconnected) What you can't see in the photo is that on the minus side of the cap. I soldered a very small extension. This way I have somewhere to connect my alligator clip to. When I want the led on and to be charging the cap. I just pinch the circuit closed by connecting the led plus leg to the wire using the alligator clip from the lead from the plus side of my cell. It holds it together ok. I didn't think about it but I guess this is wired in series afterall. It is such a simple circuit that I can get easily confused.
If this does not answer your question, please let me know. Thanks.
Bill
@ Bill if your bending the lead back to the plus side of the cap its in parallel same polarites to each other ... Um but does it work the way the pic looks like carbon to led + lead and mg to the cap plus lead.Thats what i thought you were telling me before and why i asked how is this working? :) But Han's setup is a real good idea to try hopefully that works for us to increase our voltage potential.
Hi all,the book was boring, of course.
I woke up with the next idea.
I am in the middle of making cement "cups" out of big yogurt tubs. I will fill these with earth and use the pots to hold individual electrodes. Maybe there will be enough separation to get some added voltage.
Hans, isn't your last drawing what we have done before? as soon as we put a second set of cells into the earth the voltage goes down , usually to zero. Maybe I missed something in your drawing?
Joe, I think Bills circuit IS parallel. he has the neg leg of the led attached to the neg side of the cap and the pos side of the cap is hanging out in the picture, but it will attach to the pos end of the cap.
I wish my components would get here soon, (I plan to make something with the wires soldered so it is easier to tell.)
Bill,
I wonder about this charging the cell thing. You are only using 12 volts and getting an effect, maybe the AC wires from the grid really are charging the earth? I am out in the country. The grid is here but my set up is easily 100 ft from any power company wires. I get better results with the same better elements, but I don't get the numbers you are getting. I don't remember ever getting a reading higher than 1.09v. ? I will check.
@Jeanna,
I am thinking here of a test with polar alignment of the whole array. I do not know if this has been tried
Hans
Quote from: Localjoe on December 27, 2007, 02:54:11 PM
but when i put the cap hooked to my leads and then the led directly off of it it does light constantly so thats where my ideas for a biger resivor so to say came from, the rate at which the cap is charged is pretty fast
Joe
I missed that you also got a led to light. (so many posts so little time) How many volts are you getting?
Maybe we just need to make a home made cap so we can hold enough voltage. ?
I may try this charging thing too. I never saw much last winter when I was playing with static E. Could be I was doing something wrong or my materials (Al foil and plastic cups) were too weak. Hmm. More likely I totaly forgot to get out the led set up.
Magnesium rims what a great thought! I think I have them on my own car. (late 80's)
jeanna
Hans I will look carefully
I didn't realise it but I missed a whole page before I made my last post
(Yes, 9 volts from Bills battery not 12.)
@Mr Amos
Well what works works.. i had the exact same one from the garden as a post but i only chewed off a little rust with my gator clip i didnt sand it so i may not have had a good connection , the zinc screw astounded me at being only a foot and working so well but i may go back to steel and double check. Thanks for the insight
@ jenna no we havent tried that setup yet because it shows a sub cell in between the two existing ones shorted to each other
... And the last post you had me roaring in laughter... you think i would have sent bill and all the rest of you good folks out on a wild goose chase without actually trying the things myself.. I guess I understand because some threads here are all nonsense but dont think your alone out there as soon as i have a dry spot i'm going back out to continue.
Joe
Theres the Spirt !... Mr amos bill said he it stays bright for a while and is still lit dimly at 45 minutes not seconds.. just a note ;D
Quote from: hansvonlieven on December 27, 2007, 04:34:38 PM
@Jeanna,
I am thinking here of a test with polar alignment of the whole array. I do not know if this has been tried
Hans
Thanks Hans, It is what I have been doing. In fact it was yesterday when I finally got snap hooks on wire leads that I got the true reading of zilch. no up and down just zero.
There is something here but it is not what we are used to so we need to make our collective boxes very large and try wierd things.
I like the pipe idea. I need to re read it.
Also, I thought of the britta filter that needs to be changed anyway. It may give me a good source of carbon.
jeanna
Quote from: mramos on December 27, 2007, 05:31:10 PM
The LED is 20mA, so on the EB does it seem to be bright? Can you take a shot of it hooked up?
Right, and it works on Bill's and I guess joe's but I am not getting enough, I better try again, maybe I missed something before
QuoteI would probably put in many of them side by side (parallel) and a second row in front of them (series). Ramp the volts and current.
good, please try. I have not been able to increase this by adding in series, yet, please come and join the fun.
jeanna
Quote from: Localjoe on December 27, 2007, 05:12:13 PM
@ jenna no we havent tried that setup yet because it shows a sub cell in between the two existing ones shorted to each other
... And the last post you had me roaring in laughter... you think i would have sent bill and all the rest of you good folks out on a wild goose chase without actually trying the things myself.. I guess I understand because some threads here are all nonsense but dont think your alone out there as soon as i have a dry spot i'm going back out to continue.
Joe
I'm glad you laughed. I just forgot or missed it.
jeanna
Wow, I went out on an assignment and came back and look at all the posts. I will answer some now and work backwards and post other answers later.
@mramos:
I have a video of the led burning at night on youtube. It is somewhere way back in this thread (the link) or later, I will post another link to it, or you can search youtube for 0WildBill0 and or earth battery experiments. Sorry I don't have the link handy at the moment. You can dead short the cap. No charge on it. Then hook it and the led onto the cell and the led lights and the cap also charges. Leave it hooked to the cell for about 1/2 hour + or - and then, take the circuit inside (disconnected from the cell) and it has burned bright for the better part of 30 MINUTES, and gets pretty dim by 45 MINUTES and will light for over one hour but not very much light at all. (Sorry for the emphisis but I am proud of this, ha ha) What really amazes me is that it lights the led AND charges the cap at the same time. I can also run 2 leds off of the cap when inside the house and disconnected from the cell. Not near as bright as one though. That is why I want to get more caps just like this one, if I can find any. Let me know if you can't find the video and I will look it up and post another link. I am glad that we have EE guys like you here as my knowledge of electronics is getting much better, but still limited. (Very limited) Thanks.
@ Hans:
I tried that same set up a while back and here is the thing. Even if I go from + on the left cell to - on the right, I can measure voltage there, between the two cells. Not as high as the polar alignment but the electrodes appear to think they are a cell and just not alligned as good. So, when I did that, I got a dead short (or I believe I did) between the left cell + and the right cell -, the same with the right cell + and the left cell -. Does this make any sense? Both cells are polar alligned. What I have not tried was to place them all on the exact same meridian as opposed to left and right. (but still polar alligned) What I am afraid this might do would be, we would have a + to the very north and then a - south say 5 foot away (on the alignment) and then another + and then another -. This would appear to go against keeping the plus material to the north and so on. I have not tried it but can. Did I explain this in any understandable way at all? Thanks for the updated sketch.
@ Joe:
The carbon + goes to the cap + and the mag. - goes to the cap. minus. I guess this is parallel isn't it? That exposed + wire makes it look more confusing than it is but if I soldered it to the + leg of the led I could not charge with and without the led on. I could just put in a switch but I didn't want to add anything that might increase resistance at this point.
I went to three stores today and ALL were sold out on the magnesium firestarter blocks!! The word must be getting out. Ha ha.
Bill
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mq9ZKDKDclY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mq9ZKDKDclY)
@mramos:
Above should be a link that works to the video. I made this a while ago and am getting more volts now. 1.8 vdc is the highest by me so far without charging the cell with anything. I was only getting 1.59 vdc when I made the video. So, the led is brighter now than in the video is what I am trying to say. At the end of the video, there is a nightshot of it.
Bill
So Bill,
I soldered a plain green led - no resistor- to my double cap and it is NOW under the tree in a parallel arrangement between graphite pencil and mag block. I took a reading which is showing 1.6V _ this is very high for me as you know, but this tree is about 5 ft from my power meter and line to house (just beyond the mag block in the same S position).
I am letting it sit for 20 more minutes. I have not yet seen the light on, but the meter says it is going ???
Did you EVER hook this up for a shorter time?
BTW my super caps are.045F which is a whole lot less than yours even in series. (which I read yesterday is like parallel with resistors).
@ Joe:
Sorry for the multiple posts but I have found that if I only place 1 photo in a post and not much else, it appears to work. This is a shot of the other side of my little circuit. Here you can see the little post for the minus side of the capacitor where I hook an alligator clip from the magnesium block. The blue wire also is soldered to the minus side of the diode. (led) The rest is as I explained with the red wire connecting to the plus side of the led and also to the jumper wire from the carbon rod. This should make it more clear to see both sides. Sorry.
Bill
OK I just got nothing again. I put it out as just described. It was hooked up for 25 minutes. I never saw the light and now that it is disconnected, I get a reading of 0.040v across the leads.
So Mramos and Jeanna both get zero and Bill and Joe get a light.
Bill, have you been able to get the light on with another cap yet?
Joe, what is your arrangement that got you a light. what kind of cap were you using? a resistor? Was that on the tree?
jeanna
@jenna
No im not going into the tree but for my meter to show anything more than a few micro amps i had to go near a tree... and started getting like 600 to 700 microamps and after alignment aroudn 1.2-1.3 ma in a dead short on my meter nothing but the leads and the meter. Sometimes pulling one rod up or down in the ground will show an increase or decrease in current .. hence the dip. And Jenna what is the ma reading on your setup before or after a resistor? now i know your not suspost to be able to measure current this way but the readings still work so mabey mr amos would be able to tell us a better way to measure the speed the current fill the cap or is that directly proportional to the voltage built up in it. thanks folks great work
Joe
Quote from: Localjoe on December 27, 2007, 07:48:53 PM
what is the ma reading on your setup before or after a resistor? now i know your not suspost to be able to measure current this way but the readings still work so mabey mr amos would be able to tell us a better way to measure the speed the current fill the cap or is that directly proportional to the voltage built up in it. thanks folks great work
Joe
Well, I have never read the amperage. It is just cuz I was following the rules that the only actual person teacher I had in electronics told me to do. He said it would always be very inaccurate because of what the meter does to get it. I need to jump out of that box, I see. I will check many of my readings with amps. But it is dark now so that will have to wait.
I just got my super caps. I got 2 that are 1F and 5.5 volts and one can type non-polarized that is 1 microF at 100V (seems like wishfull thinking now)
Joe, What voltage did you get from your arrangement?
jeanna
@ jenna
Anywheres from 1.2 to 1.4 v with the cu and zinc, and i was the same way about the ma reading and then i said skrew it and just put the leads on it .. funny think is its measuring someting wether its accurate or not the span of ranges ive seen from the micro amp range into the mille amp range means something, even tho its not proper :)
Joe
@ Jeanna:
I only have one capacitor at the moment. (5.5v .22F, not pico fared or micro fared, .22F) I have seen some others on line but this one works so much like a battery I don't want to get something else that just dumps the charge all at once like all of my other ones here that I have salvaged from some power supplies. I charged up one of my larger ones, larger in size not in Fareds, and it blew out one of my new leds by dumping everything all at once. Fried the poor little thing. So, I am trying to stick with exactly what I found by accident by taking apart my "shake light".
@mramos:
If you go back to the previous page and look at the close-up of the cap. you can almost read the numbers. Do you know where I might find these exact ones?
Thanks!
Bill
Hi all, I just came across this, have not read it yet but may be pertinent, better minds than mine to read it.
Sorry, but better now than later.
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Scalar_Winding_Around_Supercap
I was going to write, in my original post the difference in sound, of a valve radio/amplifier to a transistor driven device.
Tesla's little box with GLASS tubes versus semi conductors.
I would, love to read, an inventory of goods supplied to various past free energy pioneers.
Den
PS I goggled cap. 5.5v .22F
Just came across perfect graphite rods for our experiments. About 1/4" diameter and up to 8B soft.
http://www.pearlpaint.com/shop~ocID~5999~parentID~5992~categoryID~5988~layoutIndicator~vertical.htm
Check you local art stores.
George
@ mramos:
Wow! 1.0 Farad? Would this act "like" a battery as mine appears to do? I have seen ones like these online but I hessitate as I don't know enough about caps to know why mine works like it does, and the others I have do not. Also, my carbon rod was ordered from a company called Airgas. They are here in town and I think on the web. Friday, I will at least post their phone number and/or website. I believe I paid around $20.00 USD for my original rod which was 1" od x 17" long. that included shipping. I have cut it in half now for series experiments as I did not have the funds for another one. With 1.0 Farad, I think I could store a lot of volts, correct? Would that be about 4 times what I am storing now? Also mramos, a question. Why is the "larger" in size cap rated "smaller" in Farads? I have a cap here the size of a D cell battery and it is rated way lower than my little supercap. Is there something in the design of the supercap that allows it to perform almost like a battery? I had posted where Sears, and others, are using caps now instead of batteries for their cordless screwdrivers. Recharge fully in like 5 minutes as opposed to 3 hours. Forgive my ignorance, but this is how I learn. Thanks.
Bill
Quote from: mramos on December 27, 2007, 10:12:43 PM
I have caps. Will these do it.
Mramos,
The 2 that I have soldered together in "series" are exactly the smaller one on the right
The one I just got 2 of are exactly the one on the left. I got 2 hoping one each will do. I will order more if they work.
I am glad to have the same thing to try. It might help understanding.
I got these things from allelectronics.com shipping $7 flat charge.
I didn't get any light today. I purposely used a led without a resistor so I could see even the littlest bit. The resistor is key to a useable light. That is why I think Bill's cap somewhere inside has that function built in, although so far I haven't seen one for sale.
My set up is with 2 caps in series which I think ups the volts and halves the farads, though I can't figure it out now and a 1,000 ohm resistor. So it takes a moment to show the light when I put it up to a battery and it lasts for about 30 seconds bright then continues for another 20 getting less and less.
jeanna
I was just looking in the catalog they sent me along with todays order. The Memory back-up "supercaps" says this: "High capacitance capacitors. Slowly release charge to provide back-up power in temporary shut down situations."
So, they have a design feature just made for us!
jeanna
Quote from: mramos on December 28, 2007, 08:05:22 AM
Also, in parallel, capacitors add in value. So Jeana, put the two caps in parallel with each other, then the cap pair in series with the LED.
I will try that. What is so cool about Bill's circuit is that in putting the load in parallel to the cap is that he was able to charge the cap and run the load simultaneously. I have now done that with a battery which has about 2 volts charge in it, but not the earth battery yet.
Please explain what it means add in value. in amps? or volts? or maybe something else?
Thanks,
jeanna
@ All:
I finally found my receipt for the carbon rod
Airgas-Mid America
3000 Industrial Drive
Bowling Green, KY 42101
270-842-9486
Carbon Rod 1" X 17" Item #ARC 4716-4000 Price=$21.77
They may have other locations across the U.S. but you could call and ask. Hope this helps. They also have other sizes.
Bill
@Jenna
Something weird I experienced was the Dead short showing on the meter... So i guess as far as a flow diagram by having the cap and a diode after the diode/led may be forming a recursive loop not found in most circuits... *** Brings up the idea to put one led on either side of the cap.. mr amos may have mentioned this or hans i cant remember ... but I think that should light both led's and charge the cap if done right..?
Like in one of my first posts i was able to run a battery in series with the ground and light an led from one copper rod to the positive of the led and the battery's negative to the led neg or grnd, but in between the copper rod was the earth and then a zinc screw attached to the plus of the battery. It worked very inefficiently but did so it was an interesting exp. May this exp will give you more ideas conceptually to try with this.
@All- thanks again for all your hard work this project and all the research has been not only mind expanding yet humbling at the same time.
Salute to those who came before and those who will continue on..
Joe
http://www.globar.com/ec/maxcap-double-layer-capacitors.html (http://www.globar.com/ec/maxcap-double-layer-capacitors.html)
Above is a link to some really SUPER caps! 5.5 volt and 5.6 farads!! Yes, 5.6F It says they can keep RAM operating for WEEKS. I think we need these. Have not checked the price yet but will. You electronics guys please let me know what you think about these. Thanks.
Bill
G'day everybody,
Just a quick one for now, seemingly off the topic (sorry Joe) but it does seem to be further substantiation of my theory about perpendicular fields and their ability to increase substantially the energy flow in a system.
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=anandaadhar
This guy is using a small magnet that he uses to create perpendicular pulses in a magnet arrangement. This is not a fake. The principle is known (see Stephen Kundel's motor) but here is a dramatic demonstration of a possible increase in power. I think we are on the right track. A lot further to go yet though.
Hans von Lieven
a couple of notes and i will post more later, as i am still catching up, when i referred to "charging the battery" i intended to hook the positive to your negative pole and the negative to positive earth at the same time, this however promotes electric current between the poles i think, but hey since we are experimenting wanna find out?
i googled farad and the definition is " farad is the amount of a columb of energy obtained by a cap from 1 volt current."
i have a 600 farad cap that is 200 wats from a tv... can you say fun? :D
so in short a farad is how effecient a cap is? im assuming?
Quote from: Localjoe on December 28, 2007, 02:03:41 PM
@Jenna
Something weird I experienced was the Dead short showing on the meter...
Do you mean when the probe touched any part of the earth or even some dirt near the earth?
Thanks
I will look back at some earlier posts to review.
jeanna
I guess no tables :'( oh well
jeanna
@ Jeanna:
What?
Bill
Quote from: btentzer on December 27, 2007, 12:43:37 AM
(snip)
To put it very simply, electrons are released by the heater. They are repelled by a negative plate. But then potential is added to the positive side, and all of those electrons come running over to the positive plate. The greater the potential, the greater the flow of electrons.
If in the ground, (and I have no way to test any of this until I arrive back home in January) we set our Southern electrode for the negative and travel a distance (I own a farm and have a lot of room) and place our positive electrode in the North. We then complete the circuit with resistor, load, whatever and like a tube, place a high voltage potential on the positive plate, perhaps from stored current in a cap, through a circuit, and it releases this pulse of high voltage on the positive plate. This higher potential will attract free electrons in the ground and increase the overall power. Perhaps this is the part of Stubblefield's patent, not there. Add a high potential to them coils and perhaps all kinds of power starts increasing in flow. It also sounds like some of the reports I have read on the incremental increase of power in his system.
But before we think that big, we need to test this theory. Apply a higher voltage, low current to the positive electrode for a short time and see if the overall power increases as I think it should. If it does, then for how long. Then we configure a circuit to pulse HV from a cap that has stored our captured ground current. And use it to multiply power. This is my thoughts and a path that needs to be tested.
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
@ Bill and All
Bill, your little nine volt battery you tied into your negative electrode will not leave my brain.. ;D
I quoted myself, talking about putting a higher potential on the positive plate, creating a dipole and encouraging more free electrons to be attracted to our voltage output.
Well, I also found this, from a link that Pese gave out some time ago. Again, I will highlight the key parts that shouted at me. I will be ordering my carbon tomorrow. Thank you for finding that link. It should be on my stoop, when I return home.
I have a plan formulating in my mind. I predict that I will have that micro tpu, ground powered by January 14th. ;)
Quote:
"The induction coil which bears his name is equipped with three coils which are wrapped around and upon a heavy iron core. Bare iron wire and cotton-covered copper wire are wrapped side by side, comprising a primary coil body. Each layer of the primary coil body is covered by a band of cotton insulation, bringing four wire leads to the coil terminus. Two leads of iron and two of copper are external to the coil. Commercial electrical power is obtained through these connective terminals.
In addition to this bimetallic winding, there is a
third winding: the "secondary". This third coil is insulated from the primary bimetallic coil, serving as a trigger device. Presumably, a stimulating impulse shock was introduced into the tertiary coil, after which the upwelling electrical ground response brought forth powerful currents in both iron and copper coils."From:
http://www.icehouse.net/john34/stublefield1.html
"...after which the upwelling electrical ground response brought forth powerful currents in both iron and copper coils." I think this will be the secret to gain more power!!
IMPULSE SHOCK :o
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
@ Bruce:
Yes, exactly! Just to be clear, I didn't come up with that idea, I read it either from where you posted from, or elsewhere. Actually, I remember reading this in several places, possibly on the patents? I believe they called it "priming the pump". What I don't get, with my somewhat limited knowlege, is why the earth responded a bit like a capacitor when I did this? I mean, we pump all sorts of power/volts to ground every day, right? Mostly ac ok, but some dc as well right? So, where does this go? I searched all over town today for another magnesium block and every store was sold out. I can't believe this. These things are usually all over the place. K-Mart had the exact one I am using on cell 1 for $1.99 but, they were sold out! I really want to do some more research on the "priming the pump" method. Once I have my other mag. block, I will have 2 cells identical in every way. I can use one for a control and pump volts and or amps into the other and see how high it goes and how long it stays there, etc. Without the coil arrangement Stubblefield had, or the TPU device, I don't think it will stay forever in my garden. But, isn't the fact that it stays there at all a little amazing? And, this from a 9 volt. (old one too) I mentioned my car battery charger in several posts. With your experience, do you think this is something to try also? I don't remember what it is rated but, runs off ac of course, and will charge dead car battery (enough to crank over) in like 20 minutes. Should be some amps there I would think. Can you see how Joe's original post got me hooked into this? I more I think I learn about it, the more I find that is not known about it. BTW when you order the rod, it had to be shipped here (to Bowling Green) from their supplier. You might be able to have their supplier drop-ship it directly to you and make payment arrangements with the Bowling Green, Ky people. Would save double shipping. They were very nice to me and easy to deal with. I told the guy I only wanted one piece, not 10,000 and he said "hey, an order is an order." I liked that. Now, if we could find magnisum plates or rods of decent size...who knows?
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on December 28, 2007, 11:01:27 PM
@ Bruce:
Yes, exactly! Just to be clear, I didn't come up with that idea, I read it either from where you posted from, or elsewhere. Actually, I remember reading this in several places, possibly on the patents? I believe they called it "priming the pump". What I don't get, with my somewhat limited knowlege, is why the earth responded a bit like a capacitor when I did this? I mean, we pump all sorts of power/volts to ground every day, right? Mostly ac ok, but some dc as well right? So, where does this go? I searched all over town today for another magnesium block and every store was sold out. I can't believe this. These things are usually all over the place. K-Mart had the exact one I am using on cell 1 for $1.99 but, they were sold out! I really want to do some more research on the "priming the pump" method. Once I have my other mag. block, I will have 2 cells identical in every way. I can use one for a control and pump volts and or amps into the other and see how high it goes and how long it stays there, etc. Without the coil arrangement Stubblefield had, or the TPU device, I don't think it will stay forever in my garden. But, isn't the fact that it stays there at all a little amazing? And, this from a 9 volt. (old one too) I mentioned my car battery charger in several posts. with your experience, do you think this is something to try also? I don't remember what it is rated but, runs off ac of course, and will charge dead car battery (enough to crank over) in like 20 minutes. Should be some amps there I would think. Can you see how Joe's original post got be hooked into this? I more I think I learn about it, the more I find that is not known about it. BTW when you order the rod, it had to be shipped here (to Bowling Green) from their supplier. You might be able to have their supplier drop-ship it directly to you and make payment arrangements with the Bowling Green, Ky people. Would save double shipping. They were very nice to me and easy to deal with. I told the guy I only wanted one piece, not 10,000 and he said "hey, an order is an order." I liked that. Now, if we could find magnisum plates or rods of decent size...who knows?
Bill
Hi Bill,
I do not think the earth is a capacitor. I agree with your friend. I am now thinking of it as a storehouse of free electrons waiting to be attracted...I hope to our electrode.
Again, I think of electrons attraction to a positive plate in a tube. But all the power goes to heat the filament, and that released the electrons. Positive is powered up on the plate and those electrons shoot over to it. Now, with the earth, in this North (positive) - South (negative) allignment, we seem to have all of these free electrons. If we create a "positive plate" more electrons are drawn into our circuit. That is my thinking.
Now, how to safely do this. I would not use a car battery. We do not need amperage.
Check this out:
"Vacuum tubes require two power sources: a low-voltage, high-current supply for the filaments and a high-voltage low-current supply for the plates. ... "
Notice it says the low-voltage, high-current supply for the filaments, this is what is heated to release the electrons in a tube. We don't need that because the electron are already released for us in the Earth... ;D Now look at the next part..
High-voltage low-current supply for the plates!! :o So this is what we want for the Positive electrode in the North! (positive on battery to positive to electrode. You could also test it in reverse and see if there is a difference.) How to get it. Well if you were localjoe, or mramos I would say build a circuit. But the easiest way for you would be to take or I, is to take several 9volt batteries and wire in series. Keep a log and post it.
Example: 9 volts positive to positive for 1 minute and then released. After, voltage reading was n for x amount of minutes before dropping. Then try 18 volts, 36, etc. If we see some real result, we can shoot for stun guy mode and look at Kilovolts. But let's see if there is something to this before we go there. LOL
Lastly, again, think of it not as a capacitor holding charge, but as an electron tubes positive plate attracting free electrons!
P.S. Another idea that I just had, is using some static electricity. Static electricity is about 1000 volts, but no current at all. Maybe figure out a way to produce some of that on the positive electrode.
I can't wait to get home and help out! LOL
Cheers,
Bruce
@ Bruce:
Forgive me for my absentmindedness, I have a lot going on at the moment. I went back over my notes from the other day's experiments and, yes I was sitting near the negetive electrode at the time, but I noted that I had used the 9 volt battery as a complete circuit. What I mean is, I had my lead from the carbon rod attached to the + side of the battery, and the other lead was attached to the negetive side and went to, in this case the - zinc spike. I need to be more clear on posting my results and I am sorry. The cell still held a higher voltage charge for about 10 minutes or longer, thanks to the battery. I tested and posted my picture about 10 seconds after disconnecting the battery from the cell. I still think this means something, I just am not sure what. I believe the reading was 2.19 vdc after the "pulse" from the 9 volt. I did not check amps, or rather mA. I also did not hook up my led/cap. circuit to the cell after this pulse from the battery. If the rain quits here any over the weekend, maybe I can repeat some of this and keep better track of my results. I do have access to a 200,000 volt stun baton. I would not begin to know how to "wire" that to the cell without knocking myself out, ha ha. I like the static idea. Van Degraf generator would be handy for this. Of course, I don't have one. So, car battery charger not a good idea then? I don't recall what Stubblefield used as there was not much grid electricity available in his area at the time of his experiments. I will think about this while I am not sleeping.
@ Jeanna:
Can you reach a water pipe from your cell experimet area to attempt what Hans suggested? I can but need to buy an additional 50' of wire and solder two more alligator clips to it. I think this is a great thing to try. If not, can anyone else?
Bill
@ All:
If anyone else is considering purchasing a carbon rod, here is a photo of a way I devised to attach the leads to them. It appears to work well, although I am sure there are better ways. I first thought about a hose clamp but I wanted something not very reactive and good in the weather. I figured the lead in the solder would not be so bad as having the copper strand wire attached directly. It may not matter, I don't know. I just wanted to save you all from going through what I did to get it done. The one on the top left has been outside in the weather (ice, snow, rain, etc.) for over 2 months. I think it is holding up well. (They are friction fit with a 1" I.D. to fit over the 1" O.D. of the rod.)
Bill
Hi all
Regarding connecting wire to carbon rod or other difficult connections:
I think there is heat shrink tape instead of tubing. You could just wrap bare wire first around rod and then wrap the heat shrink tape around the connection and then apply heat. Should shrink down tight and be waterproof?
Just an idea.
Tishatang
Quote from: Pirate88179 on December 29, 2007, 01:10:11 AM
The cell still held a higher voltage charge for about 10 minutes or longer, thanks to the battery. I tested and posted my picture about 10 seconds after disconnecting the battery from the cell. I still think this means something, I just am not sure what. I believe the reading was 2.19 vdc after the "pulse" from the 9 volt. I did not check amps, or rather mA. I will think about this while I am not sleeping.
@ Jeanna:
Can you reach a water pipe from your cell experimet area to attempt what Hans suggested? I can but need to buy an additional 50' of wire and solder two more alligator clips to it. I think this is a great thing to try. If not, can anyone else?
Bill
I seem to be thinking about this WHILE I'm sleeping! I have been awake since 3: 30 thinking about this.
The question I have for you and for Joe is did either of you test the battery after you charged the earth? I am pretty sure neither of you mentioned it. I gather you did not get an extra 9 volts (or Joe didn't get an extra 1.5 volts) from the battery into the cell. That in itself is saying something. So, I am wondering if it really took all the juice from the battery or just a little that showed up in the earth battery?
No water pipes. just septic tanks and private wells around here.
I better get some more sleep.
jeanna
@ tishatang:
That's not a bad idea. I wanted to isolate the copper wire from the carbon though which is why I used the solder. I didn't want a reaction between the bare copper wire and the carbon. I suppose I could wrap the set up now though. Thanks.
@ Jeanna:
No, and no. But, I only had it connected for about 20-30 seconds. I did not test the battery after, I did not think about it. I should have. I will be doing more tests in this area and will see how high it goes on the cell with leaving the battery connected for like 1 minute, 2 minutes, etc. If long enough, it may well go up approaching 9 volts, who knows? I will check the battery after each test. Good idea.
Bill
@jenna im not home for the weekend so this will be quick
The battery meaning a battery not rods in earth was a 12 v dewalt one and it was a completely separate exp to see if i could run a battery in series with the ground meaning using the ground as a conductor and power a load on the other side. This is not pertinent for you to understand, just a side exp, our results came in no way from hooking up batteries and that is just being tested now for the priming the pump concept from stubblefeild work so stick with the basics im not trying to lead you a stray. Again i took a 12 v battery just to see if i could use he ground as a single line conductor and i used my copper rod on he load side and a terminal directly from the negative of the battery
the plus on the battery was connected to the zinc rod in the ground the ground served as the link between the zinc and the copper as far as i could tell i.. If this is confusing dont bother with that aspect, the led exp i had mentioned was yet another different experiment i will try to organize my thoughts further .
Joe
Quote from: Localjoe on December 29, 2007, 02:14:34 PM
Again i took a 12 v battery just to see if i could use he ground as a single line conductor and i used my copper rod on he load side and a terminal directly from the negative of the battery
the plus on the battery was connected to the zinc rod in the ground the ground served as the link between the zinc and the copper as far as i could tell i.
Joe
Oh I see. What a fabulous idea. Thanks for explaining it. So, you used the ground as a very long conductor and picked up the charge at a distance? Even if it wasn't as good as a direct hit off the battery, I see. kinda like tesla-grounded.
jeanna
Quote from: btentzer on December 29, 2007, 12:20:36 AM
High-voltage low-current supply for the plates!! :o
P.S. Another idea that I just had, is using some static electricity. Static electricity is about 1000 volts, but no current at all. Maybe figure out a way to produce some of that on the positive electrode.
I can't wait to get home and help out! LOL
Cheers,
Bruce
Hi Bruce,
Last winter I was playing around with static electricity some. In the attempts to make a good supply of static E but to not have to make a generator, I learned to make a very simple one.
Here goes:
Take a plastic plumbing pipe around 3-4 ft long (1 meter +) and a woolen or mohair glove. Now, wrap your gloved hand completely around the pipe and run your hand down the full length of the pipe and back again. Do this until the little hairs on your arm start to dance. You may hear some pops. Depending on the humidity of the day this will take 1 to a few times.
I had made a capacitor-Leyden jar by covering a plastic drinking glass with Al foil covering the bottom, and also the inside. The foil stopped about 2 in (6cm) from the top on both sides. Each piece of foil has an Al electrode sticking up about 1 in (3 cm ) above the top of the glass. (If you put some water into the glass it will hold even more charge.)
So to get all that charge onto one of the electrodes start near your gloved hand and gently touch the electrode while you pull the pipe toward you. You can build up more charge with the pipe and repeat the transfer many times- just be sure to always touch the same electrode and always pull the pipe toward you.
You can get a spark that hurts your finger when you touch it. Somewhere there is a figure for the relashionship between the length of the spark and the voltage. I will edit this post if I find it soon.
jeanna
certain iron ores or steels have high carbon content such as "pig iron" rebar made from left over iron and steel that was not deemed top quality. i think the rebar is the best steel or iron to use personally. i have a special box my grandfather made for me that can generate frequencies in electricity and alter voltages ect,. i am going to use it later today on the poles i have one steel one copper. tell you about it later.
@ Jeanna and Bruce:
So, would you hold the plastic pipe (great idea Jeanna) to the positive electrode while rubbing? Or, would you build up a charge of several thousand volts and then dump it into the positive electorde as a pulse? I watched a physics seminar on the web and the guy from MIT said that if a spark can jump 1/2 inch it is at least in the several 10's of thousands of volts range. (20,000, 40,000) Ouch.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on December 29, 2007, 03:22:56 PM
@ Jeanna and Bruce:
So, would you hold the plastic pipe (great idea Jeanna) to the positive electrode while rubbing? Or, would you build up a charge of several thousand volts and then dump it into the positive electorde as a pulse? I watched a physics seminar on the web and the guy from MIT said that if a spark can jump 1/2 inch it is at least in the several 10's of thousands of volts range. (20,000, 40,000) Ouch.
Bill
No, you pulse it. I guess that is the right term. The main thing is not to go in the opposit way or touch the opposite electrode. (which is easy at a distance of 3 1/2 feet.) The polarity will change if you go the opposite way, I think.
jeanna
Well folks,
Todays experiment looks like a bust. Let me explain.
I put cement pots - think flower pots without the little hole- in the ground. I filled these with dirt and added one electrode each. I put these into the ground between the cu pipe and zn rod that have been in the N-S orientation for some days.
There is no voltage anywhere. not between the pots and not between ground electrodes and pots.
I expected something because of the basil plants in separate pots (?) and the person in Texas (?) who used sand in a pot off the ground connected to the in-ground electrode.
This was nuthun. just like putting 2 sets of cells in series, but it was 1 cell.
There is information in this. I don't yet know what!
jeanna
Quote from: jeanna on December 29, 2007, 04:28:34 PM
There is information in this. I don't yet know what!
jeanna
there is a patent of a multi cell battery having common electrolyte. Maybe information is there?
us patent 4626481
George
@ George:
"What is claimed is:
1. A common electrolyte manifold battery, said battery including at least one module having a plurality of cells, at least one common electrolyte manifold traversing said cells for transporting an electrolyte, an anode and a cathode, said one cell comprising
an anode plate having an end proximal to said manifold and an end distal to said manifold, said distal end being connected to said anode;
a cathode plate, positioned parallel with said anode plate, having an end proximal to said manifold and an end distal to said manifold, said distal end being connected to said cathode; and
a layer of insulator enveloping each of said proximal end of said anode plate and said cathode plate, said insulator layers being contiguous with said common electrolyte manifold, whereby
short circuiting of said one cell is minimized."
The above is quoted from the patent you listed. If I read this right it says the anode and cathode are connected in parallel. I don't see how this would generate any more than 1.5 vdc. They mention, very interestingly I think, sea batteries which have been discussed or mentioned here a few times. Maybe someone who knows more than I can look at the patent and see if there is anything we can use from it. Thanks for finding it George.
Bill
Hi Bill,
Thanks for intro'ing me to this blog topic. I'll have to peruse through the other topics for techs of interest later. What is the best proof of concept Earth battery (and other adv energy techs) discussed in the overunity forums for show-n-tell at the event on June 28-29, mentioned online at www.green-salon.com? Once the public knows they're real, it will be easier to secure funding for open source projects.
Thanks, Todd
Ummm I dont trust people in general .. Thats like making a list of thinks to snuff.... Unless anyone else here really thinks we need funding i say stay the hell clear of this convention thing... Let me make this clear again ... any developments in this thread are open source and will be defended as open source .. i have a large Italian family. This topic is not for personal gain or profit, and whatever may come from it will be credited to every member who has contributed .. I say thats the easiest way to put it...
Quote from: Localjoe on December 29, 2007, 09:04:43 PM
Ummm I dont trust people in general .. Thats like making a list of thinks to snuff.... Unless anyone else here really thinks we need funding i say stay the hell clear of this convention thing... Let me make this clear again ... any developments in this thread are open source and will be defended as open source .. i have a large Italian family. This topic is not for personal gain or profit, and whatever may come from it will be credited to every member who has contributed .. I say thats the easiest way to put it...
New Energy Congress posts articles on advanced in alternative energy techs. That's a good way to get the word out. Posting all over the freakin Internet if you don't trust anyone works, and will allow our network to independently validate new open source techs via this forum and other web sites. www.green-salon.com is just a web site...those interested in snuffing out adv energy techs already know what tects are out there and where they're being developed. My little web site doesn't resolve that issue.
Hi again,
So it rained for the rest of the day and I had an idea to put my brand new biggo supercap in parallel with the now-soldered 2 caps in series and LED that has no resistor.
I then charged it with 2 AAA batteries which were giving me a reading of 2.83V. I charged it for 20 seconds then pulled the battery leads away and counted. It went on for 2 full minutes as a good light then continued...
Now, I know one of the things about the LED is that if there is less juice it will use less and so use up what is there slower, so time is not the best gauge when it is running out - but it is impressive to get out 3 times the output in terms of time to charge and discharge.
.( but it is better than zippo outside with the cement pots! ;D)
I made a little avi file to show. It is 10 seconds charging and 20 discharging.
wana see it?
Its boring and hard to see but it does show proof. I may try to make another movie that is longer. I see I have room for 12 mb max.
jeanna
Quote from: Localjoe on December 29, 2007, 09:04:43 PM
Ummm I dont trust people in general .. Thats like making a list of thinks to snuff.... Unless anyone else here really thinks we need funding i say stay the hell clear of this convention thing... Let me make this clear again ... any developments in this thread are open source and will be defended as open source .. i have a large Italian family. This topic is not for personal gain or profit, and whatever may come from it will be credited to every member who has contributed .. I say thats the easiest way to put it...
I completely AGREE with you, Joe well, I do trust people in general. It is just this topic absolutely must be open source.
Jeanna
If you and your group would sign a disclaimer that stated in no way you could take these technologies and patent them for yourself i would think about it , you just have to be careful now days. I say let hans and bill evaluate your integrity if your good enough for them i'll trust you... But i am serious about the large Italian family. I dont like scammers and feel it a personal mission after getting ripped off a few christmas's back for 2 grand to hunt down scammers... so if your legit cool. Otherwise i might have a striation-less projectile with your name on it.. ;D
Jenna
If you have a chance completely discharge the caps and hook them to your earth battery even if its just copper and zinc make sure not and i repeat not to insulate these and see what readings you get after that try what bill has done with the resistor and the led and see what kind of lasting time you get from it ... As well his led may be a 1.5 v one and yours may be a higher rating could be why your not getting light try a diff led maybe. Good work
Joe
We have no intention of patenting anything ourselves but inventors usually put that check in the box with their own patents...don't think open source techs can be patented once the info is posted online, though Tom Valone at IRI is the expert in the patent field since he's been working at the USPTO and fighting with them in court for years until recently when he won his case, so you could ask him about that. Anyway, Nora and I are more than happy to affirm and sign documentation stating that we'll keep open source techs and even potential open source techs out there for all to reproduce at will, since that's what we do with the techs we're funding out of our own pockets for inventors who are willing to open source their projects. It's a small world this adv alternative energy field, so it won't take long for anyone with a phone and email account to determine our intent by making a few phone calls...just talk to people we interact with on a regular basis. A lot of them are with the New Energy Congres and New Energy Movement. Many more are listed online at www.green-salon.com. It's better for researchers to work directly with other researchers than with us, as we can only help network technologies with prospective sources of funding, and it's hard to fund open source projects via investors since they can't lock in projected profits. We can help by providing public awareness to new technologies so open source R&D can garner additional support from the public. The only event coming up where inventors can present techs to our network directly is on June 28-29, mentioned online at www.green-salon.com, and we mention there no RSVP is required so anyone can bring anything they want, and even scope out the place to determine whether it's for them or not. The idea for a tax credit for independent R&D is a good one, and some form of credit for alternative energy R&D may already be available...not sure about that one.
We're involved with DoD because we all have allies within DoD now - www.energyconversation.org is the web site that posts the dates for upcoming events where anyone can show up and meet with those working in DoD. See also www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/040306_discussing_energy.shtml for info on one of the first meetings. It's held at 300 Army Navy Drive at the Doubletree Hotel on Mondays around 6 p.m. - 9 p.m. Speakers vary widely from one month to the next. Even Nora's dad is talking at an upcoming event at Mitzi Wertheim's house in D.C. She's mentioned in the fromthewilderness article somewhere, and helped start the Energy Conversation meetings and the Energy Consensus Group nonprofit. Her house is where Nora and I met over a year ago.
The pendulum is swinging in our favor in D.C...finally. There are too many of us to control, and now we're infiltrating gov't circles in order to gain support for adv energy tech R&D. It's impossible for the U.S. gov't to control open source techs since this is an international initiative, and the more we collaborate, the quicker the adv energy techs will be made available via open source. We are no longer the minority as far as we're concerned.
FYI - I added this www.overunity.com blog in the "Discussion Groups" section a few minutes ago to help get the word out.
Todd & Nora
301-320-3716
Quote from: Localjoe on December 29, 2007, 09:29:59 PM
Jenna
If you have a chance completely discharge the caps and hook them to your earth battery even if its just copper and zinc make sure not and i repeat not to insulate these and see what readings you get after that try what bill has done with the resistor and the led and see what kind of lasting time you get from it ... As well his led may be a 1.5 v one and yours may be a higher rating could be why your not getting light try a diff led maybe. Good work
Joe
Where are you getting these LEDs that work with so little voltage?
Thing is, my cu-zn isn't giving me that much voltage. It is giving me 1,003v. This nice cap set up shows both side of the parallel caps to say 1.18v so that is where the light stops glowing. I am using green. Maybe I should try red, but I think I remember that green is the one that needs the least for start up. see the start up of a green led otta be 1.65v but with these caps whipping the charge back n forth the light is staying on. well, that is my explanation anyway. I will look up to see if I can find some kind of LED that uses less than 1.65v.
I was outside yesterday with carbon - mag under the tree and the meter said 1.65v. Maybe it wasn't well connected or maybe the leads touched the ground or something. cuz I got no light no charge. but it is the reason I soldered the leads of the light to the double cap. I will do it again I need to try it with this parallel addition too.
jeanna
@ todd
Thanks we'll be in contact if were interested otherwise.. you could on a sunny weekend grab a few peices of metal trot out to the yard and tell us your results.. thanks for the input and make sure to read the whole thread if your going to advertise or replicate ;D
Thanks
Joe
;D
144 k of awesome .. thanks
OOPS wrong color
Thanks Joe for pointing the way.
I will change to red right away. corse it still wants 1.6 or 1.9v
thanks
jeanna
I did and it is now going on and on. a 30 second charge has given it enough charge to keep lighting for maybe 4 or 5 min.
Now to the earth battery.
Next sunny day.
Joe, What are you meaning by not insulated? I know to take the plastic off the cu but are you saying no insulation anywhere?
jeanna
@ Joe:
Just to set the record straight here, my "invitation" to Todd came about in a way that I feel needs explaining. If you read Hans's topic about being angry, Todd posted and asked something about why we were all complaining about his energy cartel and yet not doing anything to help promote free energy. I took exception to this comment and you can read my response over on that topic but, basically I told him to look around the forum, and at the earth batteries topic. I feel like we are all doing something by actually attempting to succeed with OPEN SOURCE. His monopoly ideas do not gel with mine and the "invitation" was not extended as if they did. I won't go into more detail here but you can read over on Hans's topic and make up your own minds. I don't trust anyone that wants to buy my technology and then, sell it back to me. Besides, they have Lawrence listed as one of their "experimenters". You all have seen Lawrence's topic have you not? Need I say more? Joe, sorry about the off topic but I felt this needed clarification.
Also, to everyone. I have not used any resistors in my circuit. I have some, many actually, but I would not know which one to use and, I don't think I need one. This supercap discharges very slowly on its own.
@ Jeanna:
This is funny. I have read that the red leds require the least amount of voltage to light. I have also read that about green. Somewhere, someone will write that it is the clear ones that take less. I am using red for now. It's hard to know what to believe sometimes. If you can, order that carbon rod I posted the contact info for. Your volts will go up, I promise you. You should get 1.65-1.82 vdc or thereabouts.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on December 30, 2007, 12:09:45 AM
Hans's topic
Also, to everyone. I have not used any resistors in my circuit. I have some, many actually, but I would not know which one to use and, I don't think I need one. This supercap discharges very slowly on its own.
@ Jeanna:
This is funny. I have read that the red leds require the least amount of voltage to light. I have also read that about green. Somewhere, someone will write that it is the clear ones that take less. I am using red for now. It's hard to know what to believe sometimes. If you can, order that carbon rod I posted the contact info for. Your volts will go up, I promise you. You should get 1.65-1.82 vdc or thereabouts.
Bill
Bill,
How would I go about finding Hans' topic? Do I look up Hans in some way? I am new to forums
Someday I will make sense of those notes on how big a resistor to use to get the charge to go out slowly. It was so difficult to get the information in the first place I am annoyed that I didn't take notes I can understand 3 years later. If I can figure out how to think about I will share it. It combines 2 very commonly used formulas that are rarely if ever put together.
You know, I was out this morning while the sun was shining and after those cement pots didn't work I didn't think about the carbon. It was to be next. I rolled some newsprint paper around my copper pipe (just as a form) then filled it with carbon granules out of my old brita filter. I made 2 of these. so, I will give them a go next sunny hour. I also need a second mag block. Ultimately I will probably buy a carbon rod. Later
Also, I left the cement pots in the ground. Maybe they were too raw. Maybe they need to build a charge.
THAT LIGHT IS STILL ON!
jeanna
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3828.0/topicseen.html (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3828.0/topicseen.html)
@ Jeanna:
Above should be a link to it. The way I find the topics is by selecting the "Home" button near the top left of the page. Scroll down and you can see like the last 50 or so topics that have been posted in. It constantly changes. Mostly, I just hit the "show replies" selection under my picture to check the topics I am interested in. Good luck with your experiments. How long has your light been on now??? These little things are impressive are they not?
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on December 30, 2007, 01:22:02 AM
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3828.0/topicseen.html (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3828.0/topicseen.html)
@ Jeanna:
How long has your light been on now??? These little things are impressive are they not?
Bill
Thanks.
I last charged it at 5:53 german time and when I saw tha light was still bright it was I think 6: 13 so it was bright for about 20 minutes on a 30 second charge. I am very impressed.
Mostly I am impressed with the fact the cap can be charged and the light can shine at the same time. This means there is no need for fancy switching. Fancy switching is fine, but I don't want to be dependent on it. I have 18 or so LED lights that I use all the time. They are in every room. I use rechargeable AAA batteries which last anywhere from 1 week th one MONTH on a recharge. The difference between the week and the month light is merely the difference between a 33 ohm and a 47 ohm resistor.
I love these lights. You can't read by them but soon...
Thanks
jeanna
Hi All - I found a link with some guy's theory that is fantastic: http://www.geocities.com/terella1/
Basically he took Faraday's paradox and thought about it - there are some strange unexplainable things that happen with a Faraday disc. He then does a couple of other experiments and concludes from that something interesting: A magnetic field CANNOT BE ROTATED ON ITS POLAR AXIS.
Which means that although the earth is rotating, the magnetic field is not! Therefore, telluric currents are nothing other than the current induced by the earth rotating around it's stationary polar magnetic axis!! This bring a whole new light to the phenomena and may help us in understanding how to use it. I'm gonna spend some serious time thinking about it.
Quote from: akashh on December 30, 2007, 05:49:17 AM
Hi All - I found a link with some guy's theory that is fantastic: http://www.geocities.com/terella1/
Basically he took Faraday's paradox and thought about it - there are some strange unexplainable things that happen with a Faraday disc. He then does a couple of other experiments and concludes from that something interesting: A magnetic field CANNOT BE ROTATED ON ITS POLAR AXIS.
Which means that although the earth is rotating, the magnetic field is not! Therefore, telluric currents are nothing other than the current induced by the earth rotating around it's stationary polar magnetic axis!! This bring a whole new light to the phenomena and may help us in understanding how to use it. I'm gonna spend some serious time thinking about it.
@ akashh
Thank you for posting that link. I for one, find it of utmost importance. It also confirms what I have been thinking about Stubblefield. I believe he figured this out, so long ago. I am also convinced that this is the only possible explanation for why his device worked. He only tapped it through induction, and the electricity being generated in the coils were a result of a magnetic field moving over his coil. This would allow him to tap that, through induction.
What we have been doing with the earth battery is tap the electrical current, inducted into the rotating Earth, in a moving magnetic field. We will see, but it makes absolute and perfect sense. And this is the way I will experiment, once I arrive back home.
The following segment is the part that speaks to me:
"
For all those scientist, who searched for reasons of telluric currents and explanations of geodynamo process that is creating Earth's magnetic field, please take this fact in consideration. It is of utmost importance. Feel free to forget all theories and hypothesis you know. Just perform these five simple experiments and conclude by your own mind and reason.
To me conclusive experiment is more than any even so beautiful theory. Facts are facts.
"We do leave in sea of energy. Free energy. For if we would be able to construct a simple coil in which only one half would be sensitive to induction and other half noninductive, we could gain almost limitless quantities of electrical energy just from fact that we rotate and move in Earth's magnetic field.Please do not confuse the rotation of magnetic poles around rotational axis of Earth. Earth's magnetic poles relation to any point on the globe does not change with the rotation of the planet. Position of poles rotate of course. But the magnetic field does not."New Year's Cheers,
Bruce
Quote from: akashh on December 30, 2007, 05:49:17 AM
Hi All - I found a link with some guy's theory that is fantastic: http://www.geocities.com/terella1/
Basically he took Faraday's paradox and thought about it - there are some strange unexplainable things that happen with a Faraday disc. He then does a couple of other experiments and concludes from that something interesting: A magnetic field CANNOT BE ROTATED ON ITS POLAR AXIS.
Which means that although the earth is rotating, the magnetic field is not! Therefore, telluric currents are nothing other than the current induced by the earth rotating around it's stationary polar magnetic axis!! This bring a whole new light to the phenomena and may help us in understanding how to use it. I'm gonna spend some serious time thinking about it.
Akashh,
Thanks for the link. I did following experiment:
Put some iron filings on piece of paper, put magnet under the paper rotated with fingers while holding the paper, rotated with drill. The magnet filings didn't move!
It proves that magnetic field cannot be rotated on its polar axis.
Next project: Stubblefield coil. Last Friday I got iron and bare copper wire from McMaster. All I need is to build some support for spools. I will use my lathe to do windings.
George
@akashh:
Great find! This theory makes a lot of sense to me as well. It would explain a lot of things. I am going to start reading up on induction.
@Bruce:
Forgive my ignorance but does the TPU (What exactly does TPU stand for? I have never seen that posted) work by induction? If so, I believe you are at the right place here. And again, if so, maybe you can educate us on the basics of the TPU theory? I have followed some of the TPU topics with great fascination but little understanding.
@ George:
Nice experiment! All of this is telling us something. I think this theory might be why the cells do not appear to enjoy being wired in series. Now if we use inductive coils, as Stubblefield appeared to use, I'll be they can be wired in series for as much energy as you want. This just gets better and better.
Bill
Bill when you get a chance could you tell us how long a 30 second charge on your capicator lasts for the led.. Meaning hook it to the carbon and mg and just let it sit for 30 seconds then see how long that will run your led .. Im trying to figure out the time differential of charge to last time off the earth battery not a double a or any thing like that. By finding this information it will let us build something to draw off some power and have the cap recharging. Wether we build the mini tpu for this purpose a battery charger or just the camera flash circuit. As well a second idea ... if i were to use a small spark gap powered by dc motor ... and put that with a small primary coil. Could i make some hf low voltage dc that could be stepped up tesla style meaning a nice secondary to capture the impulses.. ... That would seem to be an unlimited source of power.... All the spark gap does is set the timing for the pulsed dc if anyone is unfamiliar. Mr amos being the EE, Do you think this would be an good route to go?
joe
Quote from: akashh on December 30, 2007, 05:49:17 AM
Hi All - I found a link with some guy's theory that is fantastic: http://www.geocities.com/terella1/
Basically he took Faraday's paradox and thought about it - there are some strange unexplainable things that happen with a Faraday disc. He then does a couple of other experiments and concludes from that something interesting: A magnetic field CANNOT BE ROTATED ON ITS POLAR AXIS.
Which means that although the earth is rotating, the magnetic field is not! Therefore, telluric currents are nothing other than the current induced by the earth rotating around it's stationary polar magnetic axis!! This bring a whole new light to the phenomena and may help us in understanding how to use it. I'm gonna spend some serious time thinking about it.
G'day all,
This agrees with my findings on the Meyer apparatus.
"When you really look at it Meyer?s device looks very much like a Faraday disk except it is stationary.
Maybe in Meyer?s device the earth does the spinning for you.
You see, when you align the device north ? south, as you must, the earth?s spin is perpendicular to the magnetic flux and in line with the ?channel?, just like a Faraday disk spinning with the magnet!"Page 30 Post 436 in this thread.
Hans von Lieven
Quote from: hansvonlieven on December 30, 2007, 01:13:25 PM
Maybe in Meyer?s device the earth does the spinning for you.
Hans von Lieven
Hans,
I've been thinking for some time already and I want to build it. However I hate to read patents.
George
hey guys i did only a moments of experimenting but i have some results
i live north of atlanta GA, here my amprobe is sensitive enough to find that there is a small electrical charge in the air! not sure why thats happening since i thought it was a fluke and added a new battery it still doing it so i ran some base tests, yep a 9 volt battery is 9 volts! ok so i measured the copper and steel rods i aquired for free, (well thats just a guess of the metals) i accidentally put them in the ground at a reverse polarity + is south, they are only 2 inches deep and not properly aligned, roughly north south. i am getting .6 volt and no amps. i checked and my new amprobe meter does read amps so i will try to rig a more proper setup later when its not raining. also for giggles i connected the 200 watt cap to it, no sparks :( so im guessing its not charged, but i will sacrifice my old amp meter to see the voltage later :-p i have not checked for AC current yet. but im interested to hear if a bridge rectifier makes a difference on the battery :D
i have not finished the tesla coil yet to test on the ground battery but will keep you posted on new results.
on a side note, i would say when we get something substantial, we should fax copies to the media and post it on various parts of the net! no doubt this over unity webside will want to make it front page news as well. i like the idea of living without having to work from an invention but electricity should be free, or almost free at the very least. thats my idea about it.
I agree totally artic knight,
When you find grandparents that have worked there whole lives and cant pay their heating bill and their rx's you start thinking fixing that scenario is more important that making money.. ya know.
Anyways i got similar readings with the steel doesent work well.. You need zinc or mg Bill posted the chart with the values near the beginning of the thread. The current will depend on your depth and distance from one another. I cant believe your not even getting micro amps... Recheck your connections. Thanks
joe
Quote from: georgemay on December 30, 2007, 01:28:52 PM
Hans,
I've been thinking for some time already and I want to build it. However I hate to read patents.
George
You do not need to read the patent George. Everything of importance in relation to this patent is in my post on page 30 in plain easily understood English with simple diagrams to illustrate its function and modern components.
Studying these old patents, or any type of patent, is a tedious matter. That is why I only take the essential elements and publish in a less cumbersome format.
If you have any questions just ask, either here in the forum or by dropping me a note.
Hans von Lieven
Quote from: hansvonlieven on December 30, 2007, 01:45:55 PM
You do not need to read the patent George. Everything of importance in relation to this patent is in my post on page 30 in plain easily understood English with simple diagrams to illustrate its function and modern components.
Studying these old patents, or any type of patent, is a tedious matter. That is why I only take the essential elements and publish in a less cumbersome format.
If you have any questions just ask, either here in the forum or by dropping me a note.
Hans von Lieven
Yes, Hans you make them quite understandable. I thank you for that work.
I asked this qyestion the other day but no one has yet answered. I am wondering why the line from coiled magnet to coiled magnet MUST be uninsulated? Does it become an antenna this way?
Thanks,
jeanna
The sun is shining so I will be brief.
Carbon brushes material is a suggestion made on the TT pyramid site as a source for carbon.
I've been wondering why it would not work to make a ferris wheel out of parallel caps with lights attached to each for a little draw. and movement. then charge up just one of them and leterrip. Don't you think there will be a magnetic field that moves around the ferris wheel growing each time? or maybe not growing because the lights would throw off some, but would the magnetic field allow the re-filling of the charge? or just a little from the earth battery.
My head is in a swirl with this.
I'm outside with my shovel.planting electrodes for spring fruit! ;D
jeanna
@ Joe:
The results I posted somewhere earlier were from doing just that. I want to do it again anyway, under more controlled conditions and pay more attention to the details this time. Last time it ran for around 30 minutes reasonably brite, died down at about 45 minutes (not so bright) and was still illuminated at 1 hour but not much at all. Let me do it again but it may not be as good as this time I would be using the carbon rod that was cut in half. (but burried deeper) I guess I could tie both carbon rods together in paralell and go to my single, one only mag. bllock. that would be interesting to try because with the two shorter carbon rod halves, there is more rod in the ground now than when full length. (when tied together.) I am working on some paperwork here in my home office today but I need a break and will brave the cold to do a few experiments later this afternoon. I will post results.
Bill
joe i believe both metal rods i have are covered in a anti corosion agent which may be stopping my amps, i swapped the poles and got the same reading no difference, granted i have not aligned them properly! but no amps. the one rod is either copper or aluminium coated with a coper color.
ok so the magnetic field of the earth and the earth equals a faraday disk? sounds perfectly resonable. how can we tap this principal better? i doubt copper coils suspended in air will do that well seems the earth is doing a much better job for us if you ask me. perhaps we should combine the faraday principals with the earth battery principals?
we know how a faraday disk works so my question since i joined this forum is what about plates instead of rods? according to science you get more current from a battery when there is more surface area on the electrodes so im thinking we need to play with plates now eh? i have not probed for the best results from my rods yet but from what i gather from the work done here we are going to need to go deeper however not too deep, i believe those 8 foot poles at lowes would be the best but they would not lend them selfes well to being readjusted in the ground so one would have to get it right the first time.
hmm whats the best way to get your hands on a copper metal plate? guess im googleing
yea the steel might be bad even worse if aluminium is what i have for the other but its free and proves a valuable point to me :) now i know and i can hopefully use freebies to find better results without needing other metals just yet,
G'day Jeanna and all,
To answer your question, quite frankly, I do not know why Meyer insists on uninsulated iron wire. It was simply a specification stated in the patent that I took as read.
Only experiment will determine if it does make a difference using insulated iron wire. My feeling at this stage is that Meyer wanted as little interference with magnetic forces as possible. That is of course just an idea I have, not necessarily what he had in mind at all.
At this stage I feel I have taken the subject as far as theoretical considerations and research allows. It is now time to set up some experiments that will validate or invalidate the findings so far.
In my next essays I will show my idea of how such experiments should be set up and what they are supposed to determine. This will take a little time, but I am working on it. I have already started to procure the necessary materials since I want to run the experiments myself, perhaps with some of you joining in so we can compare results.
I love working with you all, you are good people and God willing we will get somewhere with this.
Greetings from Aussie,
Hans von Lieven
I think that TPU stands for Toridal Power Unit,
not sure of the spelling
Sid
@ Joe and all:
I just wired up the cell for the experiment Joe asked me to run. I will post those results shortly but first, I wanted to post my testing of the volts in this setup today.
As I explained about the carbon rod cut in half, I wired the cell as follows:
8.5 " long carbon rod (+) to the north wired to the other carbon rod 8.5" long (+) 3 feet to the east.
Magnesium block (-) to the south aligned ONLY with the left caron rod.
1.90 vdc
2.00 mA (Steady, not falling off like before!!)
3.2 vac
These are some pretty good numbers to start Joe's test. I discharged the cap. Dead. I drained it by hooking my meter to it in the 200 mA setting and watched it drain down to 0 from 1.8 mA.
The test will be how long the led stays lit after a 30 second charge on the cell. If that time is not very good, I will do longer charges and keep track of the results. Man, it's a little chilly out there, but not too bad.
@ Hans:
I think I speak for everyone here when I say that we are very lucky to have you working with us on this project. Your research and insights have been invaluable. I really look forward to working your experiments with you.
Bill
ok i found out i am using galvanized steel and copper painted aluminum, so after some filing and 3-4 inch depth i have gotten .4-.6 volts at 1 miliamp so if i remember right im operating at half to a third of what others have seen with better materials. i will try a cap to see what i can get i did not measure ac at this time but i did before i stripped the pipes and got .06 volt ac its raining here so hard to experiment but will do more later
Hi, I'm in from the rain for a minute,
A_K U think you are doing close to what I was. Do what Bill did. Get a magnesium fire brick, I found mine in the hardware store. (The only reason I use the cu-zn is because it is such a sure connection and I know the base result.) for results get a carpenters pencil and a magnesium fire brick.
Quotemy question since i joined this forum is what about plates instead of rods?
I guess you have to try it. I have a copper plate that looks more like brass to me... You could get copper flashing for roofs. Maybe the hardware store has that too. or junk yard next to the mag wheels.
Thanks Hans. Yes, I too look forward to experimenting with your ideas.
jeanna
@ All:
While I am waiting for my cap. to run down I will post a few pics. I need to do this in several posts as when I attempt to post more than one, it does not appear to work. I may be exceeding the file size.
This should be a picture of how the cell is wired for this experiment. Not too clear (Lens was fogging a bit) but you can see the two carbon rods hooked together and the mag. block toward the bottom charging the circuit.
Bill
This should be a photo of the charged circuit sitting on my table in the dark. I began the led light test at 2:39 Central time. (USA) At 3:03 p.m. led is still lit but has gone down quite a bit. I don't give it much longer.
@ Joe:
I went with a 5 minute charge as the 30 second charge did not get the capacitor charged up enough to fully light the led. So, we are looking at a 5 minute charge to run about 23 minutes or so, depending where you say the led is off.
Bill
edit double post
Good deal bro.... Well consider this a half breakthrough ... this should confirm to any doubters out there..... that there's some real potential here.... Great work
Joe
Sorry, I forgot to post the results after the charge. The cell had:
1.8 vdc
2.0 mA
This was after charging the led circuit for 5 minutes. A bit of a drop but not too bad. The led was NOT connected in the circuit while charging the cap.
You should be able to see that here. The light that is reflecting is off the bottom of the cap. The led + lead (red) was not connected to the circuit. The red jumper wires are off the carbon (+) and the blue jumper wire is off the mag. block,
(-)
Bill
@ sid10:
Thanks, I was assuming it was something like that, but never really saw it explained.
@mramos:
You said you would really like to see an led lit up in the ground using two elements? (electrodes?) Did you mean a picture of it? Or, did you mean at your location? I was going to hook the cap. back to the cell and fully charge it up. I can tie in the led and take a photo of it for you. I may be obtaining more mA than my meter is showing. (digital) I dug my analog meter out but have not tested with it. I will. Also note I am not using a resistor, just the supercap. It definatley lights brighter using the supercap on the cell than without.
Bill
Sorry for all of the posts but, I have a little more info.
Hans suggested a while back to test using analog meter. I have finally done that:
Side by side test of the cell in its current confiuration shows exactly the same on all three measurements.
1.8 vdc
3.2 vac
2.0 mA
Now, I have read about digital meters showing ac when none present. I was not sure about analog but I tested a "D" cell battery with both meters and they both read ac on it. Exactly the same. mramos, what does this mean? I really wish I had a scope, or used Hans's idea of the audio amp. to check the secondary for and volts at all to prove/disprove ac.
I am attempting to fully charge the capacitor as I type this. I am in typing where it is warm and almost time for a cold beer. (All these tests make me thirsty)
As far as the plates theory goes, some of the patents listed throughout the topic involved the use of plates. IF one could find, and afford, carbon and magnesium plates, I am almost sure that, due to the increased surface area, all readings would be better. I would have a question after reading the post about the diurnal charecteristic properties of the telluric currents (mentioned in the patent that looked like a chain link fence) weither to install them horizonally (like some) or vertically. (like others)
I kind of like the picture of the led buring in the dark on my kitchen table. I may use that as my wallpaper on my desktop for a while.
Bill
I was reading about NoPoPo cells which use carbon and magnesium. They are getting somewhere around 500mah in there AA cells. I wanna try these in plate form if I can find it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water-activated_battery
http://crave.cnet.co.uk/peripherals/0,39029462,49292553,00.htm
I was also wondering since we can use copper as a positive electrode, does using copper wire connected to the negative electrode deter the flow somehow?
Quote from: hansvonlieven on December 30, 2007, 03:01:37 PM
I love working with you all, you are good people and God willing we will get somewhere with this.
Hans von Lieven
Hans, I am very thankful, that you are here. I think with your help we can succeed. Maybe you should setup a separate thread for Meyer device to replicate it (just a suggestion) Or if Joe has nothing against it we can run it in parallel with Earth Batteries here.
George
@ Freezer:
Interesting links. Thanks. I am pretty sure these materials are available somewhere for a decent price. We just need to find what industry uses them, and then find a good supplier. Example, the carbon rod I bought is a gouging rod used in the welding industry. It was about 1/10 the price (about $20) than quotes I received on similar rods. I am in the process of finding some magnesium in different forms very cheap. I know someone mentioned auto wheels but, they have to be an alloy as magnesium is way to soft for it to be pure in that application.
Bill
New mA record!!!!
This will be hard to explain, but I will try. I was just outside and got an idea to tie my two 12" long zinc coated spikes into the cell. The spikes are still in the ground from other experiments and are on the south end, spaced about 3 feet apart. So, I had on the north side (+) two carbon rods spaced three feet apart. South side, polar aligned with the left carbon rod, magnesium block. (-) And now, added two zinc spikes which were jumped together. Oh, and north and south electrodes seperated by about 5 feet.
1.45 vdc
3.8 mA and steady!!
Volts went down but mA went up to a new personal record.
Sorry for the multiple posts but I wanted to announce this. Some progress made here today.
Bill
Well I took the first steps towards replicating the Meyer Absorber Patent. I used the simpler form that Hans von Lieven had posted on this thread. The one that uses two horeshoe magnets. Initially I have only done a very quick and dirty test of the setup and I dont have all of the components yet to complete as near a match to his original setup. I have two 6 inch horseshoe magnets (not exactly what Meyer's was using these are steel and each end features a super-strong Neodymium magnet) and two zinc plates. I dont have any iron wire, but Im going to order some. At this point all I have is magwire and soldering wire (lead based). The magnets were only about a foot distance from each other. The zinc plates were were a little longer than the magnet and would stick out past the ends of the horseshoe so at some point Im going to try cutting them down so they are flush to see if this has any affect either. The experiment was done on the 2nd floor of a house so they were not in contact with the earth ground. Anyhow when I tried the magwire I was only seeing around 5-6mvDC and I was not able to see any amps. When I used the soldering wire however the voltage jumped up to 25mvDC but still no amps. So at the moment there appears to be something to it, but the question is can amps be produced as well as volts? I'll be interested in seeing once the iron wire arrives it makes any difference and I may purchase a different type of magnet as well later on. I was having trouble finding any magnets of the type listed in the patent.
I've been replicating the earth battery experiments as well and finding similiar results to what most have posted (stable voltage but no apparent amperage). However I see in the past few pages it looks like some of you might be getting amps out of the earth batteries now so I will have to go back through and re-read how your doing it.
Regards,
David
@mramos:
When I say it is brighter with the cap. here is what I mean. If you just take an led and hook it to the cell, it lights to a brightness level we can cal "x". When you use the cap. and do the same, the brightness level of the led is near 0, at first. But then, and this is what I have been seeing here, it begins to light and almost right away the level is maybe x +2, then +3 etc., untill it is about 1.5 or so times the brightness level with no cap. This is why I have been saying that the cap. charges while the led is lit. I was very surprised by this. And, if you just charge the cap. off of the cell for a while and then disconnect it, hook up the led, very bright, although probably not maximum rated brightness, but still, to me very bright.
Yes, $20 for the rod is expsensive but that is nothing compared to the prices I was getting before someone posted on here about gouging rods. Possibly there is another industry that uses truckloads of these things and we can get them even cheaper? Like Radio Shack, for example, I paid $5 for ONE led and later bought 30 from China for $8 which included shipping! We just have to know where to buy is all. Some people are speaking of uses copper plates. OK wait until they see the price for a copper plate 1' x1' x 1/4" thick. I'll bet it is well over $100 or more.
The more people that are working on this, the better prices we will find I think.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on December 30, 2007, 06:56:23 PM
Yes, $20 for the rod is expsensive but that is nothing compared to the prices I was getting before someone posted on here about gouging rods.
Bill
Bill,
from McMaster: 12" long x 3/4" Diameter - 5 pieces cost $12.70 ( =$2.54 each)+ shipping :)
George
@ George:
Excellent!!! Are these bare or coated with copper? Even if coated with copper, it would be easier to strip off at those prices. Way to go George! That's exactly what I was talking about with everyone working on this together. Now, can we find some decent magnesium rods or tubes or blocks or plates? Thanks George.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on December 30, 2007, 06:56:23 PM
@mramos:
When I say it is brighter with the cap. here is what I mean. If you just take an led and hook it to the cell, it lights to a brightness level we can cal "x". When you use the cap. and do the same, the brightness level of the led is near 0, at first. But then, and this is what I have been seeing here, it begins to light and almost right away the level is maybe x +2, then +3 etc.,Bill
Bill,
Thanks for that. I wanted to ask this. I have my set up outside now. The cells are too close together but it is raining so I am under the tree. so, I am watching the meter which has been steadily rising from 0.041v to 1.002v so far. the light is connected to the set up in series and in parallel to the double cap. So, from a totally discharged cap, does it do this rise for a while? It has been 5+ minutes. to get to 1v. I disturbed the set up and it began again. I think that is strange.
I don't register any mA. at all so far. I think this is right. how could there be any mA if nothing is happening beyond charging the caps?
jeanna
Mramos
the LED is in parallel to the cap. This you are seeing is astonishing. The cap can charge and the light can shine at the same time. You can check this out with a 3 volt battery inside. Wire a LED and a cap in parallel to each other; then charge them for 40 seconds. you will see something you were not taught about.!!
check it out. It makes me smile- even though my hands are really cold :D
jeanna
Quote from: Pirate88179 on December 30, 2007, 07:23:31 PM
Now, can we find some decent magnesium rods or tubes or blocks or plates? Thanks George.
Bill
Ebay - Buy Now # 120203082134 - AZ31B Magnesium Plate .250" x 2.5" x 9" $4.54 + $8.40SHP
there are some bigger more expensive plates. Search ebay for magnesium
George
First to mramos:
please try this. put the neg of the LED to the neg of the cap and charge. you need to use more than 1.5v for most LED's to light up. the forward voltage is the way it is called. unless I am wrong. Don't worry about 3 volts or use a slightly used pair of AA batteries. I have been using 2.85 volts for mine. NiMH rechargeables is what I use and there has been NO problem.
If you study Bills picture from an older closeup picture you will see that it is in parallel. anyway go for it.
Today's report.
Raining so I used the under the tree spot. leads were about 18" (1/2 meter) apart.
Carbon pencil wired to caps and LED then to Mag block.
With one set of green light and caps after 45 minutes voltage rose to 1.002v
with other set of red LED and 2 caps all in parallel, voltage started at 1.3v and in 10 min rose to 1.5v
(but it was too dark to see and just touching this arrangement made it drop to zero again when it then began to rise again. So, I stopped for the night.)
I never had any amperage. always zero.
Inside the first set of caps with green led was at 0.53v after being charged 45 minutes; and the second red was at 0.39v after 10 minutes.
more later,
jeanna
Quote from: Pirate88179 on December 30, 2007, 05:38:36 PM
@ Freezer:
Interesting links. Thanks. I am pretty sure these materials are available somewhere for a decent price. We just need to find what industry uses them, and then find a good supplier. Example, the carbon rod I bought is a gouging rod used in the welding industry. It was about 1/10 the price (about $20) than quotes I received on similar rods. I am in the process of finding some magnesium in different forms very cheap. I know someone mentioned auto wheels but, they have to be an alloy as magnesium is way to soft for it to be pure in that application.
Bill
An interesting related article on magnesium anodes.
http://www.anodesystems.com/pro5.html
@Jenna, are you sure your meter is not blown. You should get current from a 1 galvanized nail, and a piece of copper.
@Mramos ;) I will make sure not to split em up
bills picture of what he has may be deceiving if you don't read his post carefully ... He Connects the led in parallel wtih the cap and it yeilds a brighter result .... not in series... Im next to sure of this.. jenna was just giving you an example... MY point is the larger the resivor ... cap the better results we seem to be getting with a constant load even tho a small light ... it doesent logically make sense
Joe
@Mramos
Thanks for the quick reply. I was just touching on the point that if we hook the led directly to the ground electrodes and it glows a little, why does it glow brighter if we add a cap in parallel to that arrangment >? should make no difference. Thats the answer were after .
Thanks for the advice as well we all appreciate it.
Joe
after watching a movie i had gotten a few mental pictures. someone once posted here about what materials and methods were available to the people in the older days and why did they have better luck?
Hans maybe you can help most of all with this.
talking from vague memories please correct me if im wrong, in the older days i believe they operated from easily smelted items such as copper and iron. in their crude smelting processes piles of charcoal or regular coal would be topped with iron or copper ore and set ablaze! this yielded a high carbon iron alloy known as tool steel or pig iron. pig iron is usually used for iron that has so much carbon and impurity in it that the outer "skin" of the iron is nothing more than carbon!. this is how im sure the older spikes were used for grounding, as they would be easy to cast and as they hardend the excess carbon (steel doesnt like too much carbon) would bleed out forming a skin.
also at thier disposal was the copper and teslas wonderful coils, im sure there was some old forms of coils being used on the telegraph lines right? so if this is true then i can only assume we are indeed getting ac or a form of it and through these old "transformers" they were adding voltage to the lines, i read a report i think it was posted here how after a while no more batteries were needed for the telegraph only ground spikes.
hope this makes some maddening sense. i think they used 2 steel or iron which happens to be magnetic ;) rods coated in carbon essentially miles appart :D
i would imagin these spikes would be very similar to rail road spikes? maybe square one inch thick and a foot long.
Quote from: Localjoe on December 30, 2007, 10:11:25 PM
@Mramos
Thanks for the quick reply. I was just touching on the point that if we hook the led directly to the ground electrodes and it glows a little, why does it glow brighter if we add a cap in parallel to that arrangment >? should make no difference. Thats the answer were after .
Thanks for the advice as well we all appreciate it.
Joe
@ Joe
My guess is because the cap is perhaps filtering the "ac" picked up and this is being add to the output power. Which brings me to my next point. ;)
@ Bill
The simplest way to explain induction, is a magnetic field, "inducing" current into a wire. The big magnet makes makes the electrons that are on the surface of the wire, move. This can be accomplished one of several ways. Moving a coil, through vibration, (or rotation) in a magnetic field. Or moving a magnetic field over stationary copper wire. The TPU is a bit of both. It has rotating magnetic fields that induce DC current into the collectors, with a little AC overriding and it has a lot of coil vibration. If you want to know more about the TPU, go to the thread, and the link that says "Start Here". But be warned, it is like starting a very loooooong game of Monopoly, it just keeps going! LOL
Stubblefield's earth battery was not a battery. It was an induction coil, with a secondary wound on top for greater gain and increased voltage, IMHO. He was probably using the Telluric current, but also, the earth's magnetic field. So, how did we get to the earth's magnetic field? It is part of the cause for the Telluric current, as well as lightning.
Now if that very smart theory is to be believed, which I do, it would explain a whole lot. So we have Earth (induction coil) moving inside of a magnetic field. Now this is where it gets tricky and we have to use our brains.
The earths magnetic field strength is only .5 gauss. .5 gauss is 4 field lines per inch. This is very weak and bad news. BUT there is some good news. The earth's rotation, moving in this magnetic field is rotating at 465.11 meters per second, which is about .46 Kilometers per second. And it is moving all of the time. (Obviously!)
The induction coil has to be designed properly, so that the 4 field lines per inch cut perpindicular to the coils to induce current. We need surface area in our coils, low resistance and Iron in the middle. Similar to Stubblefield. If we can get 1 coil to produce some small wattage, then we can put as many of those in the North/South magnetic line, wire them in series, parallel or what ever. The perhaps will also pick up the Telluric current and that too would be added to the output.
When I get home, (Late next week) my first goal is to repeat your progress on the earth battery to keep my oscillating micro tpu running 4 ever. During this time I will attempt to build an induction coil, that I am even now studying and planning out. I also am going to use my then forever running micro tpu oscillator, to pulse a different type of coil arrangement, looking for more power. That is my game plan for now.
The advantage I see, if we get induction current out of the earth, is the ability to pull out as much power as we want. I am also still interested in seeing what happens if we smack the earth battery electrodes with some higher voltage! (Besides causing all of the earthworms to the top of the soil. ;) )
Lastly, Bill, I would suggest going to Radio Shack and for $2.00 USD purchase a full bridge rectifier, to turn any AC into DC on your output. It is simple to use and the diagram on the back of the package tells you how. This way you will be measuring all of your output as DC and it will be more accurate.
I hope this explanation has helped. Great experiments and great news about the increased amperage. A little drawing of that new circuit would help! Thanks!
Happy New Years to All!!
Bruce
@ mramos and all:
Did you not see my just recent post about the 3.8mA I got this afternoon? That's almost twice what I had before. Not a bad increase. The led is at about 75% brightness as you can see from the pictures I posted of this test. I do not short out the cap. I just place the annode of the led back into the circuit. Let it sit on my table and after a 5 minute charge on the cell outside (after being dead shorted and tested at 0) burned almost 30 minutes. This feels to me like we are getting somewhere. This led is just as bright, if not brighter, than any of my red led keychain lights that I use in my business. I can read with this in a dark room by shining on a page of writing. I realize it is not 100% but, I have no way to measure that. The led is rated at 20mA (maximum) and I am reading almost 1/4 of that, but, I think there is more than I am able to read here, or it would not be near so bright. Would you agree? It would not be pulsing off and on at 60hz or whatever hz when running on just the cap would it? This led is brighter than my neighbors solar garden light, I just don't know how much jusice is really out there. George priced the carbon rods atlike $2.50 ea. for 3/4 dia. from Mcmasters. Check an earlier post, you can save some money.
Series or parallel? That is the question. I thought the capacitor was wired in series but I am not sure now that there is a question. It's all just positive to positive and neg. to neg. (see photo) If this is different, please tell me. the only confusing thing about the photo is the copper wire that goes to nowhere. That is my mechanical switch that I close to the + side of the led to complete the circuit. I hope this helps. All I know is I started with .85vdc and have 1.9. I started with .5mA and now have 3.8mA. If we can keep this up, we will get there. (the blue wire is-, the red wire is+)
Bill
Darn it. It says I have already submitted my post and I did not! I changed the name of the picture so this would not happen and...oh well.?????
Thanks Bill,
Great work!
I (I was too busy with my own documentation to stop and reply)
so the line of electrodes went from N to S 2 graphite rods linked -1 Mag block - 2 zn spikes linked together?
It is so brilliant and so out of the box. Bravo.
I will replicate with my materials in a couple of days. Hopefully it will be clear on tues.
Happy New Year Everyone
jeanna
@ Jeanna:
Thank you, and Happy New Year to you as well!
@ Bruce:
Thank you for your explanation. Here is yet another very crude drawing of todays cell arrangement. Please feel fee to ask any questions as this may be the single worst drawing yet.
HAPPY NEW YEAR to everyone!!!
bill i noticed you are using png picture format, this is a relatively uncompressed and very large format. try opening your pictures and resaving them as .jpg this will drastically cut the file size of the pictures and you should be able to post a couple (if the forum permits) in one posting.i seen one picture at 3 meg in here, jpg could reduce it 6 times to .5 meg.
to the person attempting some coils, i have seen some diagrams of flat coil tesla coils, i wonder if that would perform better than the wire wound around an iron core? if it was bare wire and wound flat it would be a large copper plate sort of speak and would conduct electricity like our pipes is but also tap into the magnetic field perhaps? it would most likely do best burried as ours is.
my replication of a tesla which i will use with my iron pipe is using very fine wire and wound around a wooden pole roughly 1/4 inch thick, its tedious but i think it will produce a wonderful antenna type as tesla was famous for, and i think it may be directly based with the earth batteries and currents, i think it may let us draw more current but we will see what the tests show. at this time im mostly playing with the ground poles as the others have done :)
@ Artic KNight:
Thanks for the advice but, I just checked the properties of my pictures and they are saved as jpegs. They originally come out of the camera as bitmap which this site does not accept so now I save them all as jpeg. Why would this change when uploading????
@ All:
I was just outside looking at the cell in the dark. A couple of things. First, I just remembered that when I first tested with the arrangment as seen in my crude drawing posted earlier, a 6" long earthworm came up out of the ground about 5" from my magnesium block like his ass was on fire! I didn't think they could move that fast. Then, about 2 seconds later, a 3" long centipede came up a few inches away. What does this mean? Or just coincidence?
One big question I have is why did my mA increase when I am tieing my electrodes together in what is basically a parallel arrangement? (2 on the +, 3 on the -) I have one idea. as we have guessed, amps I believe are tied to SURFACE AREA. I think these tests make a good case for it. What do you think? Only thing that does not fit is the volts went DOWN using this setup like you would expect in series. Very strange. does this have something to do with why the earth battery cells do not like series?
Bill
@ Artic Knight:
I just checked the pictures as posted here and they say jpeg. But, I checked the photo as posted on page 42 and it says PNG. I checked the same photo in my pictures and properties says jpeg. This is weird.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on December 31, 2007, 12:20:42 AM
@ Jeanna:
Thank you, and Happy New Year to you as well!
@ Bruce:
Thank you for your explanation. Here is yet another very crude drawing of todays cell arrangement. Please feel fee to ask any questions as this may be the single worst drawing yet.
HAPPY NEW YEAR to everyone!!!
@ Bill,
Thank you for the drawing. It would appear that you have wired your Earth battery in parallel. This would explain the increase in amperage, and is very good news. It shows proof of concept to increase power output. It should let you wire in series also, then, but if not, it is simple to turn amps back to more voltage. By looking at your picture I see three Cathode electrodes (negatives, your Mg and 2 Zn) A simple and easy experiment would be to add three or four more Zinc cathodes, and see if you continue to see more amperage. Of course, true parallel is to increase the number of carbon rods accordingly.
In the original dry cell battery, the zinc is normally the anode (positive) and the carbon and magnesium was combined for the cathode (negative).
What are your present ground conditions? On a scale of say, 1 being dessert and 10 being mud with standing water on it.
Lastly, what is the PH of your soil? This could also have a positive affect, if your soil is acidic. (Like mine is back home. ;D )
Thanks!
Bruce
Quote from: Pirate88179 on December 31, 2007, 12:40:32 AM
@ Artic KNight:
Thanks for the advice but, I just checked the properties of my pictures and they are saved as jpegs. They originally come out of the camera as bitmap which this site does not accept so now I save them all as jpeg. Why would this change when uploading????
@ All:
I was just outside looking at the cell in the dark. A couple of things. First, I just remembered that when I first tested with the arrangment as seen in my crude drawing posted earlier, a 6" long earthworm came up out of the ground about 5" from my magnesium block like his ass was on fire! I didn't think they could move that fast. Then, about 2 seconds later, a 3" long centipede came up a few inches away. What does this mean? Or just coincidence?
One big question I have is why did my mA increase when I am tieing my electrodes together in what is basically a parallel arrangement? (2 on the +, 3 on the -) I have one idea. as we have guessed, amps I believe are tied to SURFACE AREA. I think these tests make a good case for it. What do you think? Only thing that does not fit is the volts went DOWN using this setup like you would expect in series. Very strange. does this have something to do with why the earth battery cells do not like series?
Bill
EDIT:Bill, it means the earthworm and centipede feel the electrons moving and they want out of the way! LOL Have none of you guys ever pulsed the ground after wetting it to get worms to the top to grab and fish with? ;D City Dwellers! ;)
EDIT 2:Bill, parallel increases amperage, and series increases voltage.
earth worms will jump out of the ground like that if there is a current run through it. so my question to you is was this earth worm between the poles? you must be drawing the current and because its now moving through the earth instead of standing still that excited the worm.
i wanted to note something i might not have mentioned from my sand battery experiments. when i made a battery mixture, sand water and salt with the poles inserted, it started to generate a low current that gradually grew, if i jumped it off with a battery it started high and gradually went down.
i believe this is due to the particles in the ground need to be aligned for conducting or something, they eventually find a happy medium and stay there until the energy is depleated and that happy medium would be somewhere between the starting current and the charged current. i will try tomarrow to get my poles properly aligned and see what happens when i run a charge with my portable car starter :D should see some worms hehehehe.
on a side note, get a hand crank generator and 2 skinny long metal ground inserts and you can scare dozens of worms out of the ground, good for fishing so you dont have to tote them around, just get them from the river bank. essential for every outdoorsman kit.
@ Bruce:
on your scale, I would say about 6.5 to 7.0. Pretty wet. I have seen where my volts increase when it is more dry than it is now. I have no idea what the ph is at this time. It rained a couple of days ago. I knew volts or amps could drive worms up, which is why I noticed. I just didn't think we were getting anywhere near enough for them to feel, maybe we are. I would love to drive them ALL up!!! Ha ha. (Makes me feel like a mad scientist) I also knew that parallel boosted amps. but did not know it also cut volts. (Ohm's law?) Yes, I guess it is. I can be dumb, sorry.
Sounds like Artic Knight is really going to boost his cell. I can't wait to hear the results. Good luck with that. I still want to try something similar with either static like Bruce suggested (Jeanna's method seems easiet) and or some other "high voltage" method.
I have a few other crazy things I want to try when I can.
Quote from: Pirate88179 on December 31, 2007, 01:09:41 AM
@ Bruce:
on your scale, I would say about 6.5 to 7.0. Pretty wet. I have seen where my volts increase when it is more dry than it is now. I have no idea what the ph is at this time. It rained a couple of days ago. I knew volts or amps could drive worms up, which is why I noticed. I just didn't think we were getting anywhere near enough for them to feel, maybe we are. I would love to drive them ALL up!!! Ha ha. (Makes me feel like a mad scientist) I also knew that parallel boosted amps. but did not know it also cut volts. (Ohm's law?) Yes, I guess it is. I can be dumb, sorry.
Sounds like Artic Knight is really going to boost his cell. I can't wait to hear the results. Good luck with that. I still want to try something similar with either static like Bruce suggested (Jeanna's method seems easiet) and or some other "high voltage" method.
I have a few other crazy things I want to try when I can.
@ Bill,
Thanks for the wetness reading. Parallel should not cut volts from what you had. We are trying to increase over all power (amps x volt = watts) not transform. I wonder what would happen if you added a third anode (+) to the two. This would give you three and three. Perhaps your volts would be back up if it is balanced, but unknown.
Cheers,
Bruce
@ Bruce:
That's what confused me. Volts down from 1.9 to 1.4 but mA up from 2.19 to 3.8. I don't have any more carbon but, if I can get some money, I want to order some more rods from where Geaorge said. (McMasters) About 1/10 the price I paid!! I think you might be correct about the balance 3+3 instead of 2+3. I would have thought all would have gone up a bit. Many experiments to do but I think with this increase, there may not be a limit like some have said early on. I want to max out both mA and volts and then...move into coils. This is going to be fun!!!!!!!!!
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on December 31, 2007, 01:43:06 AM
@ Bruce:
That's what confused me. Volts down from 1.9 to 1.4 but mA up from 2.19 to 3.8. I don't have any more carbon but, if I can get some money, I want to order some more rods from where Geaorge said. (McMasters) About 1/10 the price I paid!! I think you might be correct about the balance 3+3 instead of 2+3. I would have thought all would have gone up a bit. Many experiments to do but I think with this increase, there may not be a limit like some have said early on. I want to max out both mA and volts and then...move into coils. This is going to be fun!!!!!!!!!
Bill
Hey Bill,
My last post of the night. ;)
1.9 volts x 2.19 mA =0.004161 watts
1.4 volts x 3.8 mA = 0.005320 watts
Watts is total power. As long as we are increasing that number, we are in good shape!
Good night,
Bruce
G'day all,
Try this for size:
You?ll find out that earth batteries work in a very different way that
typical chemical reaction. When I began my testing (using dissimilar metals) I decided to separate the plates, zinc & copper, by a distance of thirty-two feet. The soil was BONE DRY as we were in a drought. The plates worked equally well whether placed next to each other and wetted or thirty-two feet apart in BONE DRY earth.
They will also work if made from similar plate material. Thirty two feet is far too distant to maintain ion stripping as in a standard chemical battery. This is generally how I know whether or not someone is talking "hands on" or "blowing smoke". You certainly CAN cause a chemical reaction with moist earth and dissimilar plates, but the Earth Battery effect transcends standard chemical ion stripping theories.
Try your own experiments and you?ll see!
-------------------------------end of email---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Again this is nothing new. Poor soil conditions result in a difference of potential. This is why in communications one has to run ground tests. Also another reason some places has to put in a ground field.
-------------------------------end of email---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I wonder if depending on your soil if two dissimilar materials can be
put in the soil and the chemical reaction between the two would
produce a small voltage? But can enough be made to be useful if this
is possible.
*
* Firstly, ZINC is not hard to come by at all. Any "galvanized" sheet metal
* is zinc coated and available in hardware stores and roofing supply stores,
* metal siding suppliers, etc. You can also find large sheets of copper at
* the same suppliers. If you wish to supplement a chemical reaction, pour
* liquid bleach over the area of your EB.
*
* Excepting minor diurnal fluctuations, my Earth Batteries are quite stable thru 4
* seasons. I am making use of the "power" as we speak! I live on natural
* energy, the nearest power lines being ? mile away. As far as
* configuration, place them as close to a tree as you can if possible,
* experiment with different configurations. I have found the greatest
* potential by establishing the plates at right angle vectors. I have used
* several combinations, copper, zinc zinc, copper zinc, and have found
* NO difference of potential! But then I?m not trying to re-invent the wheel
* by using the earth as a chemical battery, I?m trying to attract and utilize
* the subtle energies found in all of nature.
found on : http://www.angelfire.com/ak5/energy21/earthbatteries.htm
Hans von Lieven
@ Bruce:
Thanks for the information. Wow, that is lower watts than I thought. Heading the right way but, I never calculated the watts before. and yes, I agree, power is everything. So, as long as watts are going up, it does not matter about anything else. Great point.
@ mramos:
Again, forgive my ignorance, but I was looking over some of my electronics textbooks and I agree that my "circuit" is in series. So, when I remove it from the cell and connect the red + lead to the + anode of the led it then becomes parallel? I am not arguing as I have no knowledge foundation here from which to do so. Can you elaborate a little on that? I know this should not be "Basic, elementary electronics 101" but I am missing something here on this as I think some others may be as well as there has been a little debate (debate is good) over which is which in this circuit. I would greatly appreciate that. I see now from Bruce's post that the watts are still very low here. My point was that at least we are going the proper direction, we just have a lot longer way to go than I had thought. I am liking the induction coil cells ideas more and more. I still think it is good that we approached it this way because if not, we might have built an improper induction cell and got .25 vdc and thought that was good. I mean, the poor fellows over at the pyramid experiments are dealing in milliVOLTS and are happy when they get some. I am still puzzled by the possible (definite in your case) ac component here. Still a lot to be sorted out. Also, why is my cell arrangement as now being used (as per my very crude sketch posted a bit earlier) not in parallel? Would it be if I had added another carbon rod to the mix? I guess I am missing more basic information than I thought. Thanks for your help on this project.
@ Hans:
Another excellent find! So, this guy is running off the grid using similar techniques to ours? Stuff like this is good as it gives me hope. and he does not appear to be using coils. Hmmmm.....Great post!
Bill
I'm going to post a drawing of the circuits that I we are talking about. I hope it is legible and small enough. I go to the co op today so I can not keep on it, but
I am asking which one is series and which is parallel. I have been calling #1 the series and #2 the parallel.
The calculations for caps are opposite those for resistors so I may be calling it the wrong thing. mramos please clarify this for me and/or all of us.
thanks,
jeanna
Quote from: mramos on December 31, 2007, 11:15:26 AM
#1 is a series C R LED cap resistor and LED
#2 is a parallel cap(s) and LED. So if you had two 1F caps, you have 2F in parallel with the LED.
Hope that helps.
Yes, it helps a lot. It is how I have been thinking. So, now that it is clear I will quote myself.
QuoteI've been wondering why it would not work to make a ferris wheel out of parallel caps with lights attached to each for a little amperage draw and movement. then charge up just one of them and leterrip (=let her rip, means let it get started). Don't you think there will be a magnetic field that moves around the ferris wheel growing each time? or maybe not growing because the lights would throw off some, but would the magnetic field allow the re-filling of the charge? or just a little from the earth battery?
I need to buy more caps for this but I have been working on this idea for a long time (since 1991 or so) My electronics teacher was so annoyed by my persistance he started to give me distance. He did admit that this had never occured to him (I mean drawing #1) so after I had made that first series cap-LED- resistor circuit I put it away .
It was when Bill created it in parallel and it worked, that I recognised it and the whole thread heard my excitement.
a magnetic field that moves around in a ring but with no moving parts sounds like a thing that can be tweeked to make power. Maybe not. I will try it myself and see. But I am a biologist. I don't really know how to make a generator or a motor. I also will not mention it again in this thread unless someone else wants to talk about it since we are working with the earth battery.
Again, mramos, thanks for your help.
jeanna
Oh, please tell me the name or web link to that capacitor company down the street from you. Mine cost me $3.50 in bulk. -thanks
@ All:
Here are a few photos of my latest wild idea. I am low on funds and I have to use stuff I have lying around so, I made this "array" of sorts from 49 16D x 3.5 " long galvanized nails. I am going to add this to the minus side of the cell and see if mA goes up a little more. I know I need to add also to the + side for best result probably, but, the only thing I have for that is my carpenter's pencil sharpened on both ends. I may add that to the mix as well if I can find another jumper long enough. I made the photo size smaller and it is in jpeg, but may not upload in jpeg. We will see. I will let you all know what happens. (Looks like a lot of surface area there so, who knows?)
Bill
Sorry, I see it still uploaded as a png!! I have no idea why, if anyone knows, please tell me. On my hardrive-properties it is jpg. I saved it as jpg. Many of my other photos uploaded as jpg. So what is going on???
The top end of the nails are hot glued to help hold them in place while soldering. I left the tie-wraps on for added strength. The connector ring is made same as my other ones and is spot soldered three places around the o.d. I will bury this in the garden today and report back...maybe nothing...maybe something. It's all I have at the moment.
Bill
I have noticed that too Bill,
The overunity server will not accept .jpeg files, it will accept .jpg
Must be one of those server programmes that can only handle three digit file extensions.
Hans von Lieven
EDIT: you have uploaded a file with the extension .JPG It does not like that, should be .jpg (no capital letters) The server that handles my website goes apeshit if it encounters capital letters in a file extension.
guys i just purchased from radio shack a 4 amp 50 volt ac-dc converter i used it on my cell and here are the results,
my cell is currently producing .25 volt at no amps. was a bit higher during the rain at .6 volt and .1 miliamp, after attatching the bridge rectifier it dropped to .017 volt and no amps. not sure what happened here but just something to be considered, the rectifier was less than 3 bux at rat shack
Hi All,
I may have figured a way to add to the battery series-like. I made some cement pots the other day. In a hurried cursory trial with clips and raindrops I got nothing. Today, with the sun shining I did the following.
I linked up Cu In the ground to Zn in a pot then Cu in a pot to Zn in the ground.
I have 2 angles that are better than anything else and I used them. They are N-S and NE-SW
|_
|
Maybe that set of lines will show it. I wanted to have a little separation hence the cement pots and I also wanted to be in different magnetic lines if indeed there are such distinct lines of path from n to s.
Taking just the first N-S leg Cu to zn in a pot the reading is 0.838VDC and 0.9 VAC
the next leg is 2 pipes in pots and there is nothing today. They are both in pots SW-NE.
The last leg is Cu in a pot and Zn in the ground N-S .
Now, all four of these pipes give a reading of 0.934VDC and 1.2 VAC !
So, it isn't much of an increase but it is .1VDC increase and 0.3VAC increase. both increased.
no amps. Maybe I am doing something wrong I have never seen amps.
I will go back later to see if 4 pots in a row will still short out like the other day. I want to repeat this and separate the placement factor from the separation factor.
Another experiment I ran was inspired by Bill's from yesterday:
I had Carbon to Mg running N-S. It gave me a reading of 1.64VDC 0.0VAC
Then I added the caps and LED and the voltage dropped the way it did yesterday under the tree.
It dropped to 0.392VDC 0.2VAC.
Without changing anything else, I pushed a deeply sunken cu pipe into the Carbon to touch it and
the readings changed to 0.678VDC 0.7VAC
Pretty low, but the DC voltage went up by 73% and AC voltage went up 3 1/2 times.
Joe, You are quite right to add the ac voltage. it seems to be showing something.??
I'm glad the co-op didn't need me today!
jeanna
Quote from: Artic_Knight on December 31, 2007, 05:50:03 PM
guys i just purchased from radio shack a 4 amp 50 volt ac-dc converter i used it on my cell and here are the results,
my cell is currently producing .25 volt at no amps. was a bit higher during the rain at .6 volt and .1 miliamp, after attatching the bridge rectifier it dropped to .017 volt and no amps. not sure what happened here but just something to be considered, the rectifier was less than 3 bux at rat shack
What cell is that?
I looked back a little.
Would you please put it all together when you report? It makes reading the reports much easier.
Thanks,
jeanna
Hello everyone,
The following photos are from this afternoon. Could someone PLEASEE help me to decifer what they mean?
I think this one says that I have 956 millivolts.
Does this one say .95 volts DC? or almost 1 volt
almost certian this is 1.3 volts AC
Not sure what this means,
All test were taken by switching the meter without changing anything else. The probes were installed about 16 feet apart in fairly moist soil in the back yard. probes are copper coated carbon in the north and plain steel on the south end.
Hope someone can help.
Thanks in advance
Sid
i will test the rectifier on a battery to see how it performs but my guess from my experiments today is there is no ac current. and if there is we will need an antenna to get it. i used the rectifier and my voltage dropped from .25 to .017 and there were no amps present, not sure if its my meter or what im doing as i got amps the other day. i will perform more tests and report back.
Quote from: sid10 on December 31, 2007, 07:20:55 PM
Not sure what this means,
Seems your readings are normal. ~1volts/ ~.5mA Try downsizing your images, right now they are 3000+ pixels. 640x480 is a good resolution. What materials and setup are you using? I got some copper and galvanized sheet metal to construct a small earth cell for comparative results. I'm gonna try the stubblefields stacked cell. I also have some capacitors and will give those a try. Now if we could light a 5w cree led that would be something. :D
My probes are copper coated carbon arc gouging rod on the north end and plain steel on the south end. Still looking for a capactior to try out. I have a few leds that are installed on a board of a fire alarm that went bad on one of the guys at work. Them were free and all still work at about 2.5 volts. I tried a cap that came from the same board it would charge to about .42 volts whit a 1 minute charge and drain down really quickly when tested on the meter.
I'll have to see if the Christmas camera is adjustable for formatt size.
Does .5mA mean that is about one half of an amp showing up at 1 volt?
Thanks Sid
This is an excerpt from some website:
You can demonstrate to students that the Earth?s magnetic field lines are orientated in a particular direction using a long piece of wire (3-5m) as a skipping rope. When a wire cuts across magnetic field lines a current is produced and can be measured using a galvanometer (sensitive ammeter). The longer the wire and the faster you spin it the bigger the current you will produce. If you align the wire in a north-south direction it will cut through the field lines at right angles and you will see a (maximum) current register on the galvanometer, if you then realign it in an east-west direction you will not be cutting the Earth?s magnetic field lines but will be travelling ?along? them and will not produce a current. If you orientate the wire anywhere in between you will be partially cutting the field lines and will produce a smaller current. Finding the maximum current will therefore find the north-south direction
Just researching ways of getting current from the earth's magnetic field :-)
Retracted post. I misread the numbers. Sorry.
Bill
@ sid10:
I beleive you are correct on your readings. The last reading looks to me like .5 mA. (1/2 milliamp) I think the only difference between your first two is you were on a different scale so, it added and extra place to the number. (better accuracy) I have been measuring my volts on the 20 v setting. Yes, that's almost a volt. (both readings) Good job. Why not post some pictures of your cell? If I am not correct about any of this, anyone feel free to tell me.
Bill
Well my attempt at my first real dirt cell. :) I might make some more to pair in series or parallel, but I will find easier ways to construct it.
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg229.imageshack.us%2Fimg229%2F337%2Fdceller3.jpg&hash=6ff0db8ea78a5871fae6918586532dfed37a3aaa)
you said you had the positive plate aligned north south and the neg east west right? hmm, that sounds like it was aligned to receive best magnetic current from earth on positive and best discharge to positive with the neg. plate. thats interesting. all this makes me eager to attempt my tesla reciever. i think i will use the magnetics of the earth as a factor in creation of it.
now that the theory of the earth as a faraday disk has been mentioned i think we can all agree thats whats happening here! so what method would best tap this energy is the question?
@Artic Knight - if the earth were acting as a faraday disk wouldnt burying one of the poles of the earth battery deeper into the ground create more current? One pole as close to the center of earth as you could get it and one pole close to the surface?
hey guys i know we are exploring the earth battery only at the moment but i just got another great idea to try. if you spin the copper disk of a faraday disk with the magnet it supposedly still generates current right? but at this point the magnet is not stationary creating friction so theoretically you could pile on a bunch of these disks onto the shaft of a low volt low current motor and power the motor off the earth battery, now you got a lot of amps at a voltage similar to what we already have 2 volt :-p we just need a good glue some magnets and copper plates :-p LOL
any hoot i just wanted to throw that out there as an idea. i cant wait to go home and play with the battery!
for the earth battery to raise the current we need to have more surface area, that means deeper and wider. im not sure how deeper will affect it but there are 8 ft copper and zink or galvanized? rods at lowes i believe it was, maybe home depot. they would be great!
@Artic Knight
you might save some $s and not buy large rods until you prove to yourself that "size matters". I've seen nothing yet that conclusively correlates surface area, depth, or distance to energy collected.
I'd get a known stable setup using magnetic inclination and declination first, then start throwing in the variables (close to tree, wet/dry, depth, metals, surface area, distance, depth, etc).
yes this project is on my list come better weather!
tak
G'day Artic,
What you are talking about has been tried many times, though perhaps not with an earth battery powering the Faraday disk. Have a look at the work of Bruce de Palma and his "N Machine".
http://antigravitypower.tripod.com/FreeEnergy/depalma.html
and the overunity thread on the device: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=626.msg66777
Hope this helps
Hans von Lieven
Quote from: sid10 on December 31, 2007, 09:23:25 PM
I tried a cap that came from the same board it would charge to about .42 volts whit a 1 minute charge
Thanks Sid
Interesting that your cap fills to .42 volts. that is what mine has done on 2 different locations even when the voltage before I put the cap in line was 1.64volts. And way more than 1 minute charge. it stayed at that level and never rose after the minute. Does this mean anything?
jeanna
Here are some pictures of today's efforts. I added the graphite carpenter's pencil and my new nail "cell" to the mix.
At first, I got:
1.05 vdc
4.2 mA
Then, since it is so cold, going to 9 degrees here today, I decided to hook up the old 9 volt to the cell and charge it for a few minutes. Results:
1.64 vdc
6.24 mA
I made these pictures in the smallest format my camera allows. We will see what happens.
Bill
Here should be a labeled picture of the set up as used and tested today. Not very clear but you should
get the idea.
Bill
I just calculated today's results in watts. .01025 watts, does this sound correct?
Bill
Quote from: mramos on January 01, 2008, 07:48:31 AM
Nice work. I would plug it in the ground first and take some reading before making many more.
I came home about 1AM (New Years). The LED was not lit for me. Gonna pull my copper out of the ground and clean it and wrap it in plastic. hehe..
Keep us posted on your progress. I when for two large pieves about 6" in the ground. Did not try small strips. You will probably have to rotate it for the best readings. I did. Oddly, my copper was in line with N/S and the zinc was E/W. Both aligned N/S
Yea, I was wondering how to align it, as there's so many combinations you could do with respect to n/s, +/-, and width/ hieght. I wonder if we should try not only north, but using angle to the north star. Where I live, I think its around 37.5. I think I will make a single cell and try these out first, so I won't keep having to dig stuff up.
@Pirate, 4.2mA pretty good!
its either .01 or .1 but it sounds like an improvement!
i cleaned the rods off. reminder im using aluminum and steel (its free) and i got .5 v at .1-.2 amp it fluctuated between 1 and 2 i connected the AC rectifier and again my voltage dropped dramatically to almost nothing and amps nada. connected back to dc and it was back to normal.
even tho we read a AC current in these experiments i have to say from what i have seen there is no ac there in the 2 rod cell. i will test again depending on my results from the earth battery tesla coil combo when that is finished.
@ everyone
Hey this might be a stupid idea but has any one tried to charge their Earth battery with radiant energy? It would be interesting if some one could hook a bedini engine or any other RE generators up to their Earth batteries. Mabey some how it could help you cell grab more radiant energy from the ground. This might be the secret to stubble fields inventions. Mabey a lighting bolt hit near his Earth batteries, lightning is a huge RE burst, Making his battery sync with the earth radiant energy. Also radiant energy charges batteries differently than hot current. Its just an idea.
What do you guys think
Stallman (c)
Quote from: Pirate88179 on January 01, 2008, 04:45:44 PM
Here are some pictures of today's efforts. I added the graphite carpenter's pencil and my new nail "cell" to the mix.
At first, I got:
1.05 vdc
4.2 mA
Then, since it is so cold, going to 9 degrees here today, I decided to hook up the old 9 volt to the cell and charge it for a few minutes. Results:
1.64 vdc
6.24 mA
I made these pictures in the smallest format my camera allows. We will see what happens.
Bill
Hi Bill,
First, good job experimenting. I would again say, that as long as experiments continue to increase wattage we are moving in the right direction.
Now, the big question for you. After using your 9 volt to charge it for a few minutes, you took a reading. Both volts and amperage were up. For how long did the voltage stay up? Do you know how to wire batteries in series? If not, I can draw a diagram. If so, please wire 2 or three batteries in series, and repeat the same exact test for the same amount of minutes and take a reading. IF the reading goes up, then we know that it is the voltage causing this, and that would be confirmation and great news. Batteries in series, will give you the amperage of one battery, but the voltage addition of each battery. Three nine volts in series, give you about 150 ma at 18 volts. Please be sure to see how long you read that higher output on your earth battery. Then, if it drops back down, repeat the same test, but this time put a load on the earth battery and see if it stays up for the same amount of time.
I will be home by the weekend and will be in the fray in no time at all. I ordered one, half inch by 48" carbon rob. This I will cut into several electrodes. I also ordered 2 magnesium blocks. This will get me started. I also have what I need at home to test out my induction coil theory, etc. I also ran across carbon fiber cloth. This will be helpful, should we find that we indeed do need surface area. The guys who ran the telegraphs, claimed that the larger the "disc" in the ground, (in the horizontal plane, not sticking out of the ground, ;) the greater the increase in power, also the greater the distance. I will try all ways. Having a ranch, I have a lot of land to play with.
Happy experimenting,
Bruce
Quote from: Pirate88179 on January 01, 2008, 04:45:44 PM
Here are some pictures of today's efforts. I added the graphite carpenter's pencil and my new nail "cell" to the mix.
At first, I got:
1.05 vdc
4.2 mA
Then, since it is so cold, going to 9 degrees here today, I decided to hook up the old 9 volt to the cell and charge it for a few minutes. Results:
1.64 vdc
6.24 mA
I made these pictures in the smallest format my camera allows. We will see what happens.
Bill
Bill,
How long did this increased vdc and mA last? did you go back out after a while and check?
(1.64vdc x .00624A=0.0102vdc all right. )
Bill,
Did you / would you check the voltage across the LED with cap while it is charging on your earth battery? Twice I got only 0.4 vdc.. Mine never did light but I don't have a carbon gouger rod yet.
jeanna
@ Bruce:
Thanks. And yes, I THINK I know how to wire multiple batteries in series but let me make sure. + to - and + to -...etc., correct? (like in a maglight flashlight) It bleeds down failry fast from what I have experienced. It was so cold and the wind was blowing about 25 knots that I did not check after my initial readings. Last time I "juiced" the cell it bled down to a "stable" reading after about 5 minutes. This reading was higher than the readings I took prior to the 9 volt addition to the circuit. This is what amazes me with my limited knowledge of electricity. I mean, I used to work with CNC grinders and we made seperate earth grounds for all of them to keep the computers happy. Any spikes were dumped into the earth, never to be heard from again. (or so I was taught) The fact that you can "charge" the cells and still have time to disconnect the battery and take some readings, just amazes me. The books I read say it (the charge) should just dissapate into the earth instantly. Why does it stay here? How much will stay and for how long? Which leads to the experiments that you suggested. I can try to do them but it might be a while. I would like to know the answers to this myself. I am looking forward to your experiment results. Best of luck to you.
@ mramos:
I believe that we have almost proven that surface area is important. The pictures you posted showed a lot of surface area but most of which was not in the ground. Some have suggested trying the "plates" lying flat on the ground, or burried underneath it. You are dealing with a lot of sand there and I have no idea what this means as far as results go. The more surface area of electrodes I use, the more amps (mA) and volts go up. Still not much power here, yet, that is agreed. But, we are moving in the right direction even before entering the phase using coils and other circuits to boost output. Do you have an area where you can place those large sheets a few inches under the ground? (horizontally) I would place a bet that the output goes up. Somewhere in the first 4 pages of this thread is a post about the Russians that tested and gave results of a lot of power per square meter. This is why surface area is important. Your soil (sand) might not be helping, or maybe, would be better with different materials and configurations?
Bill
G'day all,
Have a look at this: http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3857.new.html#new
Some of this work cuts right into what we are doing here. The pdf file Dogs offers for download is very good.
Hans von Lieven
I tried a 4 plate cell in water to test the voltage and milliamps. Plate measures 2.5"x4" ~30gauge.
Initial mA - 10.21mA | 0.82 volts
mA drops immediately
At around 3.5mA it will drop .01mA every 10 seconds, so the drop was slowing and stabilizing. (Dropped to 3.5mA within ~3 minutes)
It seems surface area definitely matters, although there might be a lot of other ways to maximize the power. What was interesting is that you can move the cell within the water, and the mA would go right back up. Frictionless generator? Perhaps you could create some water vortex and concentrate it into a collector. I think if you use this in a stream, it would be a stable 10mA generator.
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg124.imageshack.us%2Fimg124%2F1159%2F4pecmv2.jpg&hash=987793b0ffa0ce6356341b3e02d050fca95368ca)
i apologize for the miss information i was getting 1-2 miliamp
i know a led uses 20 at 1.7 volt thats what my clear red led is rated at most likely the same as bills since it was the cheapest on electricity i could find from electronic store.
i can get a steady .52 volt at 1-2 miliamp, and its rate of fluctuation is a pattery, it would switch twice a second i think.
@ Artic Knight:
That's a nice looking cell. I have an idea...maybe. I like the way you used plates to multiply the surface area. What if, you made a cell with one type of metal, and another with another type of metal, ie carbon plates on one and put it in the north position, and magnesium plates on the other? Or, substitute any opposing metals (as far away from each other on the galvanic chart) that you can obtain? What I am getting at is that you have devised a way to get a whole lot of surface area in a small package. I believe that if you used them like we are doing already, you might easily surpass any reading we have to date. If I was not so low on funds at the moment, I would love to try that out. This way, you would have the north/south thing in your favor as well as the distance between the two disimmilar metals which will boost the output. What do you think?
No problem on the readings, it is very easy to mix up while doing this stuff. That is why when I see someone post that they are getting 2 amps, I question it, not that they are lying, but, possibly misread the scale. Let me know what you think.
Bill
@ Hans:
Thanks for posting the link. I read the pdf and saved it for later ref. So, you think that this type of circuit would increase our power? There is a lot about that circuit that I don't understand but, our old friend resonance is involved. Maybe someone else that knows more about this than I can comment. So many ideas here, and so little time.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on January 02, 2008, 08:26:21 PM
@ Artic Knight:
That's a nice looking cell. I have an idea...maybe. I like the way you used plates to multiply the surface area. What if, you made a cell with one type of metal, and another with another type of metal, ie carbon plates on one and put it in the north position, and magnesium plates on the other? Or, substitute any opposing metals (as far away from each other on the galvanic chart) that you can obtain? What I am getting at is that you have devised a way to get a whole lot of surface area in a small package. I believe that if you used them like we are doing already, you might easily surpass any reading we have to date. If I was not so low on funds at the moment, I would love to try that out. This way, you would have the north/south thing in your favor as well as the distance between the two disimmilar metals which will boost the output. What do you think?
No problem on the readings, it is very easy to mix up while doing this stuff. That is why when I see someone post that they are getting 2 amps, I question it, not that they are lying, but, possibly misread the scale. Let me know what you think.
Bill
Bill i think it was Freezer who posted the cell your talking about :)
well im interested in running some more tests, one is with the tesla coil as a antenna, another is to get another aluminium rod and cut the steel in half, now mind you i have done all i can at this point based on what we have here to optimize my output with 2 poles, i probed for best voltage they are only 6 inches roughly in the ground and i sanded the aluminium. the steel is galvanized. these rods are roughly 1 to 1.5 inch thick. i need a proper capacitor and i will make a transformer to step down the voltage and that should light a led for me nicely. but i have not gotten there yet. i can say that to tie a led strait to this cell does nothing for me! no light! i believe its mostly due to the voltage at 1/3 required for the led.
i have read an article about the faraday disks that hanz posted and in it they made mention of waves of electricity carrying more potential than just the electricity. this i believe is relevant to this thread and i will elabrate.
you have one pulse wave of dc (what we are getting) it is rated at 1 volt at one amp. well the volt is how high the wave is and the amp is how long the wave is, riding on this wave is another bit of energy for some reason not seen by our volt meters but harnessed by our capacitors perhaps it is the collapse of the magnetic field of the wave? or maybe just the collapse of the wave just of itself? this wave has that extra energy that turns it from a 1v 1a reading to a 1v 3a potential.
this is something that would be unproven as it is not easily measured and would require a radical invention to prove, hmm i see no shortage of them here all one would have to do is look at the TPU? coil device made mention of earlyer in this thread. it would create a magnetic field and harness the potential from it then the field would collapse violently creating another magnetic wave generating more potential! i believe these waves are of high amplitude and low voltage which would go along with what i have seen on my amp meter, if one of the magnetic "lines" of the planet crossed my battery every second then i would get an amp, after it left and the field collapsed i would get 2 amps and over again!
just for reference i am using aluminium and galvanized steel if anyone has those metals and wishes to try, it was spaced 3 feed apart roughtly and the aluminium was an inch deeper roughly. i by force of my hand stuck the aluminum against the ground firmly till i found the place of highest voltage then hammered into the ground.
Apology to Freezer and Artic Knight.
I am sorry. I did not mean to confuse the two of you guys. It was a very busy day here and it is now 8 degrees F outside. My brain, what is left of it, was not working very well.
@Joe:
Thanks for pointing that out. What do you think of the idea though?
Bill
Quote from: Artic_Knight on January 02, 2008, 09:48:03 PM
well the volt is how high the wave is and the amp is how long the wave is,
Arctic_Knight
Thanks for this explanation. It helps. I understand frequency in music etc but this may be what I need to be able to translate it into circuits.
I can't understand what it is that you tune when you are tuning a circuit for frequency.
I did a little indoors experiment today. It is sort of my next step to Bill's circuit.
I put together the 2 LED circuits that I have. (I drew both of them the other day.) One has a green LED and a series cap made of two 0.047F supercaps in parallel to the light, and the other one has a red LED with two 1F supercaps in parallel. I ran these neg to pos neg to pos then an 8 " piece of wire making a ring back to the first neg. I put the leads of a battery with 2.7V between the legs of just one LED-Caps unit.
Both lights lit up and stayed lit for an hour on a 60 second charge. I repeated this 4 times and checked the voltage on the battery before and after each application. It went down by about 0.01v with each application. Sometimes it went down more than that just after the application but was recovered later. The battery started with 2.73 volts and now is 2.71 volts.
The other thing is that making a loop in the same way but with only the {red plus 2 caps all in parallel} set., the connecting wire got hot and started to burn. Then when I added the other one, the {green LED with one series cap in parallel} set, everything is as I described.
If this is too hard to follow I will make a drawing.
Please understand that the reason I am resorting to using a chemical battery for now is that I have just under what I need to start my circuit with the earth battery and I am just getting my circuit ready while I wait for the carbon rod. And I thought you should know because the results are so promissing.
I think mramos's jule thief might help move things along the earth battery too. I will be putting one of those together to try.
jeanna
@ Jeanna:
Great work. Good idea to test your circuits with the battery before going outside to freeze. What is a joule thief?
I have seen this mentioned a few times on the forum and I have no idea what it is, or what it does, or how to make one. It sounds like a very effieicent circuit but, what do I know?
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on January 03, 2008, 01:44:33 AM
@ Jeanna:
Great work. Good idea to test your circuits with the battery before going outside to freeze. What is a joule thief?
I have seen this mentioned a few times on the forum and I have no idea what it is, or what it does, or how to make one. It sounds like a very effieicent circuit but, what do I know?
Bill
Bill,
It is a small circuit that extracts the unused juice remaining in a battery. It seems to greatly enhance the useability of any voltage/amperage that is there. It may enhance our earth batteries.
Take a look at these 2 sites for a joule thief.
http://www.emanator.demon.co.uk/bigclive/joule.htm
http://www.evilmadscientist.com/article.php/joulethief
The second one is a little video that makes it look easy. (Now that I have a "helping hand" to hold some of the parts while I solder!)
I just saw something strange in my new circuit. I will see if I can figure it out before I describe it. Sometimes I don't trust my meter, then sometimes it seems perfect. I think I expect it to do odd things.
I have a request.
Would you please (did you already?) measure the voltage across the 2 leads of your LED? I am asking for these when it is no longer connected to the battery and is closed in a loop.
The other number I want to know from your circuit is the voltage of the rest of it. The voltage across everything that is excluded from the led-cap part.
thank you,
jeanna
Stubblefield continued
Here is another article I came across on the net that I feel is relevant. It is about an experiment trying to replicate some of Dr. Hooper?s work on what he termed ?Motional E-Fields?.
The author is only known as ?Sparky?.
The Motional E-Field.
This is one of my most interesting projects that I have kept private. While experimenting for several years on this project, I decided to release what information I have concerning this extremely exciting subject. The experiments I will explain could Kill you. Use Extreme caution. You have been warned, proceed at your own risk.
Lots of folks have tried in vain to build a machine that exploits the Motional E Field. The problem is a basic understanding of HOW it works. Notice, I did not say why it works. I don?t have a clue as to WHY it works. I have read everything I could find on the subject, it is vague on what?s out there about it. I will leave WHY it works to Bearden, Sweet, Kaluza-Klien and others who profess to know this. I do recommend reading "Nothing is Something" by Floyd Sweet found with a good search program. But even then he is trying to explain where this mystery potential is coming from, instead of explaining how to actually build a device to produce it.
A normal wound coil has induction. A Bifilar coil connected in reverse-Parallel {Ends Tied} has very little. We will use both in a device to exploit the MEF. The experiment will be just that, not a full time working device ready to power your house or car. Purchase {3} rolls of 24 gauge at 100 feet each magnet wire. I use the GC brand part# L3-612. Gather {2} empty plastic spools with a 1 inch bore. The GC brand comes on these 1 inch bore spools, very handy. Take {2} rolls of the 24 gauge wire and wind them on a empty spool. We are making a bifilar coil. Take your time and wind it carefully keeping the wires together as you wind. You need good balanced bifilar coil. Make sure the wires are the same length, 100 feet. When you get through, clip the ends equal and tie them together. Now test your bifilar wire. It must NOT conduct any electrical potential and or current. Hold it next to a spinning magnet assembly of sorts with a good meter set on AC. Nothing.... it must not conduct anything, this is very important. The bifilar coil will be your pick up coil, but NOT as NORMAL electrical conduction. Take your last roll of wire and leave it on the spool and we will use it as the exciter coil. These coils have no cores, and you will see why later.
Find or purchase {2} ferrite magnets 2" x 6" x 1" will do. We are only doing an experiment.
You will not have a continuous output, so go this route first. Do not use Neo's, their lattice domains are very tight. You will have to demagnetize these magnets to about 10 to 20 gauss. How you do it is up to you. One can wrap the magnets with magnet wire and dump cap voltage against the fields, or use heat. This is common, so I won?t go into that procedure here. Once the magnets are demagnetized, we need to treat them. We need to impress a 60 Hz field in the now loosened domains of the magnets. Wrap the magnets separately with 100 feet of #19 or #20 wire each. Wire these in series and connect them to a veriac on the lowest level. Go do something else for 2 or 3 hours. You can build conditioning coils on forms that slide over the magnets for easy removal and installation. After 2 or 3 hours remove the coils and check the magnets with a scope. You should see a weak 60 hz signal on the magnets. Carefully place the bifilar coil and the exciter coil between the {2} magnets. Space them as far apart as possible without the spools hanging off the edges of the magnets. use plastic ties to keep them in place.
Connect the Exciter coil to a generator at 8 to 12 volts at 2 to 3 ma at 60hz. Place a load across the bifilar coil, such as a light. See if the bulb will flash. If it does, place more bulbs in line with the load. It may even blow the bulb. This field is regulated by load. You may have to experiment with the exciter voltage to get the effect to occur. All one wishes to do is vibrate the magnet. do not overdrive the magnet with the exciter voltage. This will not last long, the magnets will loose the 60Hz signal. Perhaps Barium ferrite IS needed to keep the 60hz signal or the whole design is not shielded properly or it will always run down. Barium has high electron emissivity and promotes electron scattering when excited. The point is: Something of the electrical nature lit the bulbs from a non-conductive coil. The bifilar coil was not connected to anything but the bulbs placed between the {2} treated magnets.
Now, HOW it works. As current flows through a wire the electrons act like magnets when they MOVE. Now if they don?t move, they just have a electrical field around them. If we move this current through the bifilar coil, the magnetism cancels. But moving the electron magnetism will actually add. The magnet domains have been loosened. Their domains are not locked in a position they can shuttle some what within the structure. But they still have a very small amount of magnetism. It is like billions of small magnets vibrating about the domains because of the 60hz exciter coil. They also have a 60hz signal that we supplied to the magnets. Because they have a slight charge on top of being small magnets the E-Field will manifest into the bifilar coil. But this is not the normal conductive current. In fact any normal conductive current abounds, it will cancel the effect. This is the reason the bifilar coil must be made so carefully. You MUST have the least amount of induction in your bifilar coil as possible. This is the reason I use no core. I want a small exciter signal that does not interfere with the bifilar coil, so the exciter coil has no core either.
All the exciter coil does is vibrate the domains which have the 60hz signal placed on all those billions of atoms already that are very slightly magnetized in the domains. Moving a electrical charge against another charge by separate wire cancels the magnetism in both wires and adds.
This is the Motional E-Field.
I have added this graphic to show the experimental arrangement.
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fkeelytech.com%2Foverunity%2Fe-field.jpg&hash=d2480f30bbb4730d0ede0f5c4914f756c0c2d859)
This experiment is of interest because here we see again the creation of a perpendicular field similar to what Stubblefield, Barbat and others are relying on, in line with Barbat?s interpretation of Helmholtz.
Hans von Lieven
@ Jeanna:
I just measured the volts on my circuit which has been sitting in the house since this weekend's experiments posted earlier. (led + lead not connected) From the - side of the cap, which is also the - lead of the led to the pluse lead of the led I got 1.62vdc. I checked mA just for the heck of it and got 6.12mA but it began to fall off as I guess the meter is basically shorting it. It falls off when I check a battery for mA. I am not sure I understand your other question. Tell me what you want to know, and I will check it. Thanks for the great info on Joule thiefs. Just when I think I am learning something, along comes so much more that I need to learn. But, learning is fun! Thanks again.
@ Hans:
This motional E field theory is fantastic. This is the first time I read of a bifilar coil arrangement where they actually tell you what to do with all of the ends of the wires from the windings. I have several coils lying around here but have no idea what to do with them. More to study now. Thanks for finding this great information.
Bill
@ Bill,
There are a number of ways to connect bi-filar coils, each with different properties. More in further posts.
Hans
Quote from: Pirate88179 on January 03, 2008, 05:17:00 PM
@ Jeanna:
I just measured the volts on my circuit which has been sitting in the house since this weekend's experiments posted earlier. (led + lead not connected) From the - side of the cap, which is also the - lead of the led to the pluse lead of the led I got 1.62vdc. I checked mA just for the heck of it and got 6.12mA but it began to fall off as I guess the meter is basically shorting it. It falls off when I check a battery for mA. I am not sure I understand your other question. Tell me what you want to know, and I will check it. Thanks for the great info on Joule thiefs. Just when I think I am learning something, along comes so much more that I need to learn. But, learning is fun! Thanks again.
Bill
Well it may not be an issue with the single set that you have. I think what I am seeing is something that is an interaction between the 2 sets.
If I check the voltage across either set ( cap end to cap end of either the green set or the red set) I get a voltage and they are both exactly the same. However if I check the voltage across "outside of those caps in just the wire that hooks them together, there is nothing. So, I am interpreting this to mean that since there is no load to draw current there is no more movement of any kind. I plan to add a LED just by itself across the plain wire to check this, but I first need to go to radio shack. And I would like verification from your single cap type of circuit set.
Just the wire alone. The part that doesn't do anything but touch the LED/cap circuit.
I will make a drawing, I think.
jeanna
Jenna
A good article on LED's and Joule thief circuts.
http://www.talkingelectronics.com/projects/LEDTorchCircuits/LEDTorchCircuits-P1.html
Den
Quote from: cub3 on January 03, 2008, 06:57:52 PM
Jenna
A good article on LED's and Joule thief circuts.
http://www.talkingelectronics.com/projects/LEDTorchCircuits/LEDTorchCircuits-P1.html
Den
Thanks, Den
I just bought the list for another joule thief. And since it is now pouring rain again, I may just build it. :)
jeanna
i dont know how much knowledge of this topic is known to the people of the forum but the jule thief works because A. it ups the voltage through the coil and lowers the amps, (when voltage is raised this way the amps gets lowered) and B because it is pulsed.
i like coils, for instance since i have .52 volt and need 1.7 roughly to operate my led i could take a coil and on the led side wrap 3.5 times the wire that i wrap for the battery input this will allow my led side with 3 times the wire have 3 times the volts that was put in, but then i will be left with .75 miliamp which means i will need to pulse it to power the led. i dont fully understand how to pulse but thats what the transistor is for. this curcuit could be more effecient i think with a cap but not certain of that. for instance take the current and pipe it strait into a cap then take it out in pulses, this will only work if the cap is going to have the output voltage of 1.5 1.7 volts that i need not sure about that either if a cap can change the energy or not.
what they are using is simply a step up transformer :D they could tap even more current if they add more windings and slow the pulses. then they could light the led after the power is seemingly gone.
Quote from: Artic_Knight on January 03, 2008, 08:20:15 PM
i dont know how much knowledge of this topic is known to the people of the forum but the jule thief works because A. it ups the voltage through the coil and lowers the amps, (when voltage is raised this way the amps gets lowered) and B because it is pulsed.
Thanks Arctic Knight
I want to see. I sort of thought it was the pulses that made it use less but seem like more. But if it reduces the already almost non existent amperage of the earth battery, it won't work. but on the chance I will make one. If nothing else, I will be able to squeeze the juice out of dead batteries to run my LED 'candles'.
I am having trouble understanding what is happening with oscillating currents. I think it is important so I want get my hands on them. I think it is the only way.
jeanna
Quote from: Pirate88179 on January 03, 2008, 05:17:00 PM
@ Jeanna:
I just measured the volts on my circuit which has been sitting in the house since this weekend's experiments posted earlier. (led + lead not connected) From the - side of the cap, which is also the - lead of the led to the pluse lead of the led I got 1.62vdc.
Bill
I think if you connect the thing into a ring it will be what I am looking for??
jeanna
@ Jeanna:
Ring? What do you mean by ring? A frined of mine stopped by today (he is also a PI) and I turned off the lights and showed him my led circuit. His direct quote was "Holly Crap!" He said the led was very bright, as do I. But, according to the numbers, as mramos said, this should be nowhere near full brightness, but, he shined it around my kitchen and said it was brighter than his keychain led that he also uses on surveillance. That keychain light uses three, like mine, hearing aid type batteries. So, this leads me to believe that possibly there is more power here than we are measuring. I know this sounds like false hope, and I try not to do that, but, my led should not even begin to light until 1.7 vdc and I posted ( in response to your question) a voltage lower than that. That is the voltage used when my friend viewed the light output. "Very bright" he also said. I realize that this is very subjective but, interesting non the less. I also showed him how I can power three leds on the circuit, well, the original one and two flashing ones. He was impressed. I could have put this out for my Christmas lights but tried it too late. So, you are getting a carbon rod?
Bill
Quote from article -
[How to cheat!
There is a secret way to make a lemon-cell light up an incandescent bulb. You have to cheat. Buy yourself a "super capacitor" or "memory backup capacitor" via mail-order surplus. They cost a few dollars. You want a value between 0.1 farad and 0.5 farads. Try one of these suppliers:
* All Electronics
* Electronics Goldmine
* Jameco Electronics
To light a bulb, first build a lemon battery and connect it to the terminals of the supercapacitor. (Me, I use alligator clip-leads bought from Radio Shack.) Wait for a few minutes. Now connect your flashlight bulb to the supercapacitor terminals and it should light brightly for a few seconds. (If not, then remove the bulb and try connecting your lemon cell to the capacitor for 15 minutes to make sure the capacitor gathers enough energy.) The capacitor slowly collects electrical energy from the lemon battery, then it dumps that energy into the flashlight bulb over a very short time. You can even use this trick to let your lemon battery run a low-voltage buzzer or turn a small motor (look for "solar cell motors" from various mail order suppliers or Radio Shack.) As with the bulb, you must charge up the capacitor for many minutes, then use it to run your bulb or motor for a few seconds.]
http://amasci.com/miscon/miscon4.html#lemon
I built 4 sets of 4 plate cells in series and tried them in water. It gets about 4.2mA at around 3.2volts. It lights one of my leds pretty bright, and some at medium brightness, which run at 4.5volts. I used a 5.5v | .022f capacitor and it increases the power on only one of my lower power leds. You notice a little increase in brightness, but It didn't work with other leds.
jenna and all
if i implied that this jule thief would not work then i apologize because it will work. how well is the question, and jenna you are right pulsing is part of the way it conserves energy and lights a bulb.
what this device does is raise the energy available to a usable voltage (doesnt matter how many amps you have if the voltage isnt high enough. to do the work) now we pulse it and it turns on and off. but if it does it fast enough it will save power because its not a constant draw and give us the current needed to create a percieved constant light. what the amps is good for i dont know i really cant explain it. in fact with my current knowledge i cant explain why anything draws the amps it does. seems like you could drop the amps to me and it would still work. but then im not a electritian either. my grand father is and he cant really explain it either :P
what im saying is if you want a jule thief take an iron nail and with some math you can up the voltage to what ever you want, but its going to lower your amps. this is a induction coil or transformer of sorts. i will be making one to attempt to light my led later.
bill since you have achieved 1.8 volt at several miliamp i would suggest trying to run several led's in parallel.
if you want to "double" your watt output you can pulse the current, if its off for a second then on for a second you will have stored X amount of power in a cap so when its on you can draw XX amount of current to power your device. however this means the light will flicker, if its fast enough you can "double" the usable power and make it look like the light never turns off. they really should use this curcuit in light bulbs ;) ;D its a gimic but for certain apps like Lights it works considerably well.
@ Artic Knight:
Great information. This reminds me of a device marketed in the 70's which was a simple disc that you put in the base of an incandecent light bulb fixture. They "claimed" that a 100 watt bulb would still be just as bright (to the eye?) and use 50% less power. Looking back I now believe that possibly this device pulsed the light, on and off like you are saying, and it "appeared" to be just as bright. I am now messing with leds that flash. If I could get them in sync then I could have two lit, for the power of one. One off, and one on...etc. Look at Tesla's 60 cycle ac that we still use in our homes today. Any incandecent bulb in our houses turns off and on 60 times per second, right? We don't see that do we? And to me, with my limited but growing knowledge of things electrical, if I have a light and it is off just as much as it is on, would that not mean a 50% power savings? My plan was to sync several flashing leds so some were on while the others were off. Possibly double the light output with the same power. What do you folks think?
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on January 03, 2008, 10:05:04 PM
@ Artic Knight:
Great information. This reminds me of a device marketed in the 70's which was a simple disc that you put in the base of an incandecent light bulb fixture. They "claimed" that a 100 watt bulb would still be just as bright (to the eye?) and use 50% less power. Looking back I now believe that possibly this device pulsed the light, on and off like you are saying, and it "appeared" to be just as bright. I am now messing with leds that flash. If I could get them in sync then I could have two lit, for the power of one. One off, and one on...etc. Look at Tesla's 60 cycle ac that we still use in our homes today. Any incandecent bulb in our houses turns off and on 60 times per second, right? We don't see that do we? And to me, with my limited but growing knowledge of things electrical, if I have a light and it is off just as much as it is on, would that not mean a 50% power savings? My plan was to sync several flashing leds so some were on while the others were off. Possibly double the light output with the same power. What do you folks think?
Bill
http://www.techass.com/el/docs/m4zman.pdf
The flashlights these guys sell run on the same principle of using a circuit to adjust the pulse frequency of the leds. It can last a lot longer and appear to have similar brightness, but as you pulse slower it lowers in intensity. Its actually a pretty interesting light, as its fully adjustable. I think if we made some really simple circuit which limits power, and lowers the pulse but not to much, and that would atleast conserve power. I think the goal would be figuring out how to amplify, and if there's some way to speed up the flow by way of pulsing at certain ranges.
bill
to start lets discuss ac. ac is a constant current or constant voltage similiar to dc only that it changes the positive and negative poles 60 times a second. the incandecent light is a wire that gets white hot basically melting but 60 times a second the current reverses in this bulb, it never stops sucking juice and never turns off.
now as far as saving electricity with pulsing that depends on how you work it. if you need XX current then you will turn off the light for X current then turn on for XX so that it can be powered. and this will not save any power but mearly double the workload for the available power. if however you have a light that takes X current and you turn it off as much as it is on or pulse it then when its off it saves X current. in the case of the incandecent bulb if you pulsed it assuming it worked for those bulbs (dont see why not) then you would essentially get a 50 watt bulb for 100 watt brightness. however im fairly sure in the incandecent case it would just become dim. maybe not if its pulsed fast enough.
my goal here is to light the smallest halogen light i can buy, if thats a 5 watt halogen then i want it lit! if i can find a trick to help me like the jule thief transformer then why not? it might not power a house but i get free outside lighting!
maybe this explenation is better:
i have .52 volt at 2 miliamp if i make a step up transformer (the wound wire) i would need 4 windings on the battery side and 14 windings on the led side that would give me 1.82 volt at .75 miliamp (the ratio is 3.5 which adds to voltage and takes from amps) now if i pulse it equal on and equal off it can draw 1.82 volt at 1.5 miliamp when on without draining the cap or exceeding the input. that is what the jule thief does. if you use a variant of this on the batteries (more inportantly the pulsing) you can double the run time. the rate at which you pulse does not affect it as long as it has equal off and equal on.
OK to save on words here is a picture
I charge my circuit by putting the battery leads between points D & E on the upper right. Both lights shine brightly. I hold that and count 60 seconds. Then let go. With the circuit still joined in a loop (ring), It glows brightly for longer than the green circuit has ever kept going, about 10 minutes. Then the green light looks dim but the red one still looks good. I think there are 2 reasons for this.
1- The green light's caps have a much smaller capacity and
2- there is only one cap in parallel to the green light. I believe this makes the green light run the power out faster.
I checked the various attachment places this morning and was surprised.
The voltage is the same exact measurement 1.5V between the legs of the green set and the legs of the red set. This makes sense.
Also between B - D or E - C there is 1.5V
BUT there is no voltage between B - E , A - F, A - E, F - B.
In a way I can see that all charge has stopped moving because there is no unbalance anywhere.
So Bill,
This is the reason I wanted to check your circuit closed in a loop. Close the open points and check all connections for voltage while the light still glows then I assume but please check to see that there is still voltage between some of the points after the light goes out.
I hope this picture helps. It is very hard to describe.
here goes picture
jeanna
@ Jeanna:
The figure I gave you in my earlier response to your question was with the led illuminated and the circuit "closed". Now, to get a reading after the led goes out, by that do you mean to let it burn for an hour or so off of the cap, and then check? Or, do you mean to break my circuit by removing the + lead from the annode of the led and then check? I am sorry to appear so stupid but I want to be clear on what you would like to know.
@ Artic Knight:
I understand what you are saying. The only thing I might not agree with is the ac (house) current at 60 Hz. I , like a lot of people, can actually see some 60 cycle effects. For example, when I got my new computer monitor, it's default refresh rate was 60Hz. I used it for less than 10 minutes and got a bad headache. I then adjusted the refresh rate to 85 Hz and now, no problem. I can't see it in incandescent bulbs but I can see it in flourecent light fixtures. I don't mean the flicker from a bad ballast, I am talking about the on/off of the 60 hz ac. Now, you say not on/off but rather reverse of current flow, which I know is true but, I believe it also has the effect of essentialy turning on and off as well. I don't know this to be a fact, I am only bringing it up for discussion. What do you think? Interesting that you said it does not matter the frequency as long as off as much as on. This makes perfect sense to me. If you were in the woods at night with a flashlight, and so was I, and you pulsed your light on and off at whatever cycles, it would last longer than mine would being on all the time. Like you said, the trick is to find the proper "rate" that gives the "same" light output with extended life. and now enter the joule thief. I have no idea what might happen with one of these on the cells outside, but, I want to find out. Thanks.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on January 03, 2008, 11:23:29 PM
@ Jeanna:
The figure I gave you in my earlier response to your question was with the led illuminated and the circuit "closed". Now, to get a reading after the led goes out, by that do you mean to let it burn for an hour or so off of the cap, and then check? Or, do you mean to break my circuit by removing the + lead from the annode of the led and then check? I am sorry to appear so stupid but I want to be clear on what you would like to know.
Bill
I mean for you to check all the points including with the circuit broken open. I think you have it clipped? I am not asking you to unsolder it, I think.
A - B closed and open
C - D but be sure to get INSIDE the leads so you capture what is going on between the light and cap. and do this with the loop closed and open.
See, what I am thinking is that when you have closed the loop the charge that leaves the light can continue around the loop and recharge the cap. While the cap is recharging the light is still lighting (sooo cooool) then when the cap gets full it begins to discharge and it lights the light and then the charge goes around the loop one more time to refill the cap (while it is lighting the light).
The green one that I have that is made like yours discharges in about 20 seconds. It is really too fast to fumble with meter leads in time to make a reading. This is why I am asking you to do it.
thanks a lot,
jeanna
@ Jeanna:
OK, I got you. I never really thought about this but I think you are right. If the cap. has x power and the led only uses x-whatever, then the rest of the juice continues round back into the cap. A brilliant circuit. Too bad I have to admit I just stumbled into it. (sigh) And, you have said that leds will use some power and when the power decreases they will use that. I have read that elsewhere as well. This is really fun you know it? I will do the tests you requested and get back to you.
A side note: I had this cigarette lighter (cheap, made in China) that had flashing leds on the outside of it. I just wanted a lighter but, it was chaep and it worked, for a while anyway. Well, it tore up and I took it apart. (salvage) I found 2 leds of different colors mounted on a printed circuitboard. They are very small but will flash alternately from the cap. And, my regular led will also light while this happens. I have not yet tried this attached to the cells outside. (18 degrees F here right now) If I can get them all lighting and flashing outside, I will make a short video and post it on youtube. Keep up your thinking and experimenting. I will let you know about the tests on my circuit.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on January 04, 2008, 12:18:35 AM
@ Jeanna:
OK, I got you. I never really thought about this but I think you are right. If the cap. has x power and the led only uses x-whatever, then the rest of the juice continues round back into the cap. A brilliant circuit. Too bad I have to admit I just stumbled into it. (sigh)
But see that is the part about the forum think tank. I have been LOOKING for this for years and when I had begun to get close in that class I got distracted and never even tried it. Maybe the teacher told me to forget it it wouldn't work. I had not considered it was possible anymore. And the all of a sudden thanks to you there it was!!
And, you have said that leds will use some power and when the power decreases they will use that. I have read that elsewhere as well. This is really fun you know it? I will do the tests you requested and get back to you.
Keep up your thinking and experimenting. I will let you know about the tests on my circuit.
Bill
Thanks
Yea this is really fun. I look forward to the measurements AND the video.
I just put together my joule thief. I hope the rain lets up enough tomorrow so I can use it for a light between carbon granules and Mg block. It is set up with a white. I will make it with a red which I just found.
jeanna
Hi All,
I may be very far off topic. Trying to find purity ie % of Magnesium in fire starters.
In Aussie land. the last thing we need are fire starters !!
What is the magnesium composition / % of various automotive components
A site which id rather long, do not dismiss immediately.
http://au.answers.yahoo.com/answers2/frontend.php/question?qid=20071016194934AA0QBBc
Den
@ All:
I found this on the net today.
http://www.anodesystems.com/pro5.html (http://www.anodesystems.com/pro5.html)
Look at this quote from the anode site:
"A 17 pound magnesium anode can produce 1 amp of d.c. current for 1 year; therefore, if it produced 1/10 amp, it would last 10 years compared to 3-1/2 years for a 5 pound anode. A 17 pound anode placed in 1,000 ohm-cm clay would generate 170 M.A. of current and would last only 6 years. If the clay's resistivity is 2,000 ohm-cm, it would last 11 years. In 10,000 ohm-cm dry sand, it would last 52 years. A normal current output is under 100 M.A. However, this engineer has seen the natural current output of a magnesium anode reach 200 milliamps (M.A.)"
Evidently these are used when installing underground tanks but check out that it gives 1 AMP!! Even the 200 mA figure sounds good to me.
I will go back and see if I can find any pricing on these.
Bill
http://www.anodesystems.com/order.html
19a ANODE, 17 lb. Magnesium
With 10 ft. wire - Shipping Not Included ea $ 54.50
IndianaBoys
@ IndianaBoys:
Thanks, I saw that when I went back. I am still checking around and have found some even cheaper. They make magnesium anodes for hot water heaters (rod shape) and they should not be all that much. I wish I knew this a while ago. Thanks for posting it.
This might be a great step forward in upping our power. That 1 amp output for a year quoted on the anodesystems site did not say anything about a cathode spaced away from the anode on the n/s meridian so, maybe we can get even more??? I need to check into this.
Bill
G'day everybody,
To make it easier for those of you who are following my current line of research (the Stubblefield series) I have just uploaded my posts on the subject onto my website. This way everything is presented as a total project in sequential form. I will keep it updated as the need arises.
the URL is http://keelytech.com/stubblefield.html
any comments are appreciated
Greetings from Down Under
Hans von Lieven
@Bill What a fabulous find! I have a lot of clay in my soil here. (But not up in my mountain where all this is going. :) )
Did you see or does anyone know how to calculate the resistivity of one's soil?
I have some mason's lime in the shed. Perhaps if I mix that into the soil I will get more charge?
Hans, Thank you for re-providing your link.I finally got there. Great work and information.
I called Don's welding which I found in the phone book. Don is retired and wouldn't take any money for the 4 carbon rods he GAVE me. So, they are 1/4" and covered with a light coating of copper which I will get off somehow. I will take advice on that from anyone who knows.
Bill, Did you ever take a separate reading on that composite of nails you made? did it seem to be as strong as its surface area would predict?
jeanna
Thanks for the flowers Jeanna,
Go to an electronics store and get some ferric chloride, they use it to etch circuit boards. Just immerse the rods in it, it will take the copper off without damaging the graphite. It is cheap.
Hope this helps.
Hans von Lieven
Hey Guys you gotta try this!!!
i got 0.05 volt at 0.1 miliamp i took a iron nail (plain slightly rusted) wrapped 15 turn copper wire around it, on one end of the copper coil (around the same nail that is in the ground) i attatched the neg to my amp meter, the positive i attatched to the nail itself, it got that reading above!!! why? the coil alone and nail alone did not get these readings but when the coil was around the nail it did this!
on a side note i origionally tried the 2 coils around this nail to get a step up transformer, i got nothing for some bizzar reason. i stripped the insulation off the wire but nada. however while playing with these coils the ground voltage went up (afterwards) by 0.08 volt... odd.
i need to finish that tesla coil, i wonder how it will work.
also i wrapped a piece of wire insulated once around both of my poles and attatched the amp meter, it generated 0.02 volt. that is wierd too! i think maybe the nail was acting as an antenna to tap the electricity and allow it to move more freely into the atmosphere. that makes me feel a little more confident using a coil+antenna like the tesla version.
G'day artic,
Looks like you found that elusive AC component that Stubblefield and Bryan are talking about. Well done.
Let's see where this one will lead.
Hans von Lieven
Hey folks make sure to check this out it doesent directly apply to us but some really interesting things in this page.. http://magnetism.otc.co.nz/EarthGrid.htm (http://magnetism.otc.co.nz/EarthGrid.htm)
This should be a picture of this evening's experiments. Very hard to tell but it is 2 leds flashing, a red one and a green one. I have uploaded a video to youtube which is processing as I type this. I will post the link when it's ready. the video is terrible but you can see two leds flashing.
Thanks Jeanna. I have not done a test using just the nails. I have just been dumping that into the whole deal and it does help with the mA reading.
Bill
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vixrFpm0p_g (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vixrFpm0p_g)
Above is the link to the video I just submitted to youtube. the leds (flashing) were operating off of the capacitor circuit attached to the earth battery cells. I finally obtained another magnesium block, actually, I bought 2 more, so now I am back to using the two carbon rods tied toether and now two magnesium blocks tied together as well. Good volts and decent mA. (1.8 vdc at about 2 mA.)
Bill
Great work Bill!!!
So thats two led's in parallel with the cap hooked to your electrodes?
@ Joe:
Thanks. Here is a picture of the circuit I took during the experiment using the flash on the camera. This is a small printed circuit board containing 2 leds. (1 green, 1 red) I salvaged it from a cigarette lighter (made in China) that quit working. It is wired with the minues lead from the circuit board to the - side of the cap., and the + lead from the circuit board to the + side of the cap. The jumper wires you see in the photo are attached to the earth cells. (Red +, blue -)
Joe, did you check out that magnesium anode I posted a few posts back? 1 amp.!!! For about $50.00 (USD) and it already has a copper wire lead built into it. A guy could make some serious power using this in the earth battery configuration that we have been attempting to perfect.
@ Jeanna:
Excellent job locating your carbon rods!! With Hans's suggestion on the chemical to strip them, you should see some big improvements on your cell when tied to the mag. block. Excellent!! Hans is a great guy to have on the team. We are very fortunate.
Bill
@Bill
Thanks for the video. And a good idea. I think I will look for my 2 way LED or solder a second LED backwards into my crazy looping circuit to see if I can watch what is going on.
Wasn't the other red LED still in your circuit? It looks to be there in the flash still.
@Arctic Knight
Quoteone end of the copper coil (around the same nail that is in the ground) i attatched the neg to my amp meter, the positive i attatched to the nail itself,
Does this mean that one wire is attached to the meter and the other wire is tucked into the coil? Did you attach anything to the pos lead of the amp meter? I'm sorry if I am being a pest. I can't replicate this without knowing these things!
jeanna
@ bill that looks cool ;D I couldn't find where it said 1 amp and how it was used in there corrosion protection sys but it looked huge.... ;D
Hopefully all you folks with good weather are enjoying it.. im in about 6 - 8 ft of snow accumulation . Keep the good work rolling.. and im happy we are all steering towards a jule theif / mini tpu type devices as a simple solution to take small pulses from the cap get some usable power from it. Although with larger plates and or rods and or whatever style electrode your using readings are sure to increase as well so i say both paths be continued by those that have the way or means to. Thanks again folks ;D
Joe
@ Joe:
The below is copied and pasted from my reply (734) on the previous page. This was copied and pasted from the link I posted.
Look at this quote from the anode site:
"A 17 pound magnesium anode can produce 1 amp of d.c. current for 1 year; therefore, if it produced 1/10 amp, it would last 10 years compared to 3-1/2 years for a 5 pound anode. A 17 pound anode placed in 1,000 ohm-cm clay would generate 170 M.A. of current and would last only 6 years. If the clay's resistivity is 2,000 ohm-cm, it would last 11 years. In 10,000 ohm-cm dry sand, it would last 52 years. A normal current output is under 100 M.A. However, this engineer has seen the natural current output of a magnesium anode reach 200 milliamps (M.A.)"
And they were not even considering the stuff we have already learned.
@ Jeanna:
In the photo I took tonight (and posted a few posts back) you should be able to see, maybe, that the positive lead (anode) of my original led is open and not involved in the circuit. (my mechanical switch, crude, but effective) It looks like it is there bcause it is, just not connected to the circuit. I have it soldered and didn't want to heat everything up like the cap and led by desoldering and resoldrering, so I used the + lead to make or break the led (original ) circuit. This help in charging the cap. faster. I should have had this on during Christmas!!!!
BIll
Bill
Quote
In the photo I took tonight (and posted a few posts back) you should be able to see, maybe, that the positive lead (anode) of my original led is open and not involved in the circuit. (my mechanical switch, crude, but effective) It looks like it is there bcause it is, just not connected to the circuit.
Got it.
Thanks
jeanna
@ Jeanna:
I think you posted that you got 4 (free) carbon rods? 1/4" dia? Once you strip the copper off them you could band them together and have more surfce area than my 1" rod. How long are they? You might even be able to mask off about 1/2" at the top of each rod to save the copper so then you can solder your leads to them. Or, you can make a ring type device like I did. I really think you are going to like those rods with your mag. block. I would bet you will have no problem lighting an led using one of your caps in the "crazy" circuit configuration. I am seriously considering obtaining one of the 17 pound magnesium anodes with the bag of chemicals surrounding it. It would be a big hole to dig in the garden to bury it but, can you imagine what we could do with any where near an amp coming out of the cell? Then we bring in the tpu and the joule thief and possibly other coil arrangements. We will probably be shut down from the electric company. Ha ha.
@ Artic Knight:
I am glad you are finding results with coil configurations. I think we will be moving that way soon and will will need all of the hands on experience that we can get. I have no idea what was happening there. As Hans said, this is possibly close to what Stubblefield knew would work. Keep up the great work.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on January 04, 2008, 10:57:40 PM
@ Jeanna:
I think you posted that you got 4 (free) carbon rods? 1/4" dia? Once you strip the copper off them you could band them together and have more surfce area than my 1" rod. How long are they?
Bill
Thanks for mentioning that I could leave the tops copper. I may not have thought of that in time. They are about 12" long.
I got the ferric Cl that Hans suggested. I didn't get it into the shed before dark, however, and now there is a wild storm outside. I may have to wait another day or so. I will be watching you with that Mg anode. It looks really promissing. Look at what we are doing for 2 volts!!
This is going to be good for me to learn about coils. I don't really know more since I wound that toroid in the joule thief yesterday but I feel differently about it. I am ready to wind a nail. Maybe AK can explain that last unhooked wire to me or maybe I will make something up ;D Ha! That is always fun.
Do you have any thoughts about changing the ionic constitution of the soil? Adding limestone is good for plants and good for the soil in general. It sounds as though it may create a more moveable charge as well, according to the anode folks.
Thanks,
jeanna
@ Jeanna:
Quote below from the anode website
The backfill consists of 75% powdered gypsum, 20% powdered bentonite clay and 5% sodium sulfate. This mixture is a low cost, nonhazardous, electrically conductive earth backfill.
I don't know the answer to your question. They said they are using this mixture surrounding the mag. anode in a bag to lower resistance in the earth. I don't know if we really need that or not.
I too am excited by the thought of getting into coils. The problem I have always had with coil schematics and drawings is that, if you wind a bifilar coil (two disimilar metals, like Stubblefield) by definition that gives you 4 ends of wire to be connected somewhere but I can never figure out where. Do you tie them together? Do you tie the same metal wires together and then have 2 wires for connection leads? I know this is my ignorance showing but, I have never pretended to know more than I do and I am not going to start now, ha ha. I also don't understand when someone says "make a coil with 60 windings (turns) on a form." OK, now do theses windings go from one end to the other like a barber pole? Or, do you start at one end of the form, and when you get to the other, then start back over the first layer of wire? (Like a bait fishing reel) And, to add to it, in Stubblefield's design, I believe he said to insulate the two disimilar metal windings from each other. (He was using bare wire I believe) How the heck do you wind a coil like that? I am sure others here can answer these questions which are probably coil winding 101 but I am lost.
It will take me a while to find the $$ for the mag. anode and chemical bag but, the potential (no punn intended) is too good to pass up I think.
One thought to change the conductivity of your soil might be to add some rock salt to it. (like sea water) Or, you could do what Stubblefield did and add some ground up pitchblende, (uranium ore) but I would not advise it. I will be dreaming about that huge anode tonight.
Bill
Well, I have finally arrived home, and my carbon and magnesium have not yet arrived. :(
So, I am going to the local hardware store and pick up a few other things to try in the mean times, and will also test some coil ideas, etc.
@ Bill,
I thought the idea was to garner as much energy from these telluric currents and not have to add ingredients to the ground to garner more power, besides electrodes and coils?
I for one would want something that can be used anywhere, by anyone, without having to purchase large magnesium blocks and additives. Just my two cents. ;) There are all sorts of ways to make your own battery, that would provide some power, but I am interested in only garnering these telluric currents and/or the earths magnetic field.
There are still so many things to try and experiment, with your present setup, before moving on to something new. IMHO.
Keep up the great work!
@Hans,
That last find was a jewel. Notice the Stubblefield patent, where he talks about connecting the iron and copper windings at one end. This would form that exact same bifilar coil written about, but the earth provided the source current perhaps through the secondary windings of the Stubblefield coil. Food for thought.
Bruce
@bruce
Fully agreed, i want a small device in the end that anyone with enough strength to open a cap off of a two litre can push into the ground.. I imagine in the compact device i will sharpen the ends of the electrodes in the ground for easy insertion. Or possible two little electrode inserts to space however one would like with strong connectors to go into a main unit. In hopes of keeping this little guy self contained and Still continuing the larger electrode path for permanent home install or camp ;D
@ Hans quick question on the wrap that is the outermost on the Stubblefeild coil .. say the third one that is always in debate.. It was noted i think that it was steel wire or iron.. If this outer thrid layer connects to the core of this sink... the iron core or steel whatever was used... It is very reminiscent of leedscalins supposed ultra efficient electromagnet.. the key was tying the metal core to a cylindrical metal housing outside the the normal coils... Stublefield may have just used wire so as to excite it ... This seems much too interesting to pass by....
Joe
Awesome work everyone!
I can't wait until the snow melts around here, so I can join in the experiments (fun)!!
I ran across a site today, with 5, "Lost Science" patents from the 1870's on how to make/improve earth batteries. They were making enough electricity to run signaling apparatus and alarms!?
Number 2 patent states that "zinc and copper partly embedded in sulphur, a more intense current will be created". Reminds me.. I read in an old chemistry book somewhere that, "If we pour melted sulphur into an insulated metallic cup, we shall find, after it concretes that the sulphur and cup will be both electrified."
Where can I get sulphur? Same patent also uses magnets wound with coils!
Definite must read! I love "out of the box" thinking!
http://giuli.com/earthbat/
@ Bruce and Joe:
I don't disagree with your points, they are good ones. I just want to get the power up to something anyone could view as useful, and then work on consolidating and compacting it. Kind of like computers, if they tried to build ENIAC (which took up a large room) to fit on a desktop as a design parameter, we would still be waiting for them to build it. I don't have any extra $$ at this time so it may be a moot point.
I had a dream last night that I took my two magnesium blocks and drilled two holes in each block such that my zinc spikes could go through the holes and make a frame. (Kind of like what Freezer was doing) then, I was going to wrap the zinc with bare copper wire, which would give me 4 wire ends , or two, depending if I jumped the wire over to the other zinc spike or not. I am not sure what do do with these ends unless I use them (tied together) as an attachment lead? My thoughts are that both the mag. blocks and the zinc are on the extreme minus end of the scale and possibly the coil arrangement with the copper wire (with zinc cores) might "gather" more mA. You guys think this is worth a try?
Bill
Here is yet another really crude drawing to hopefully explain what I was trying to describe in my last post. I have the stuff here to try this today if I want to. It won't cost anything but time.
ps I did not get Freezer and Artic Knight confused again (Ha ha) I borrowed Freezer's plates cell idea and used
Artic Knight's wire wrapping coil test idea as well.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on January 05, 2008, 01:01:59 PM
Here is yet another really crude drawing to hopefully explain what I was trying to describe in my last post. I have the stuff here to try this today if I want to. It won't cost anything but time.
Bill
DO IT
jeanna
@ Bill
That looks like a great idea to try. I look forward to hearing the results.
While waiting on my magnesium and carbon rod, I tried several experiments today.
I tried using a carpenters pencil, sharpened at both ends as one electrode, and a zinc nail for my other electrode. The reading was 750 mv. No ma. Zero!
I then tried a mini Stubblefield type coil that I wound. I saw 1.2 volts on the primary, which was five layers of thirty wraps each, bifilar 20 awg magnet and uninsulated steel wire, around three zinc nails. Secondary was of 20 awg magnet wire. I am thinking now I should maybe overwrap that with more steel wire.
It only registered voltage, as it went under ground. But, still, NO ma. ::) And that was sad.
So, I think there is something to the bifilar copper and steel, but still missing amperage. I hope that the carbon 1/2" rod and magnesium blocks will provide better.
2008 Cheers,
Bruce
@ Bruce:
That's very interesting. Were you alinged on a global orientation? Or just picked a few spots? I would have thought you would have seen at least some registration of mA. But, interesting that you achieved a pretty good volt reading with the primary. So, in the really terrible sketch of my latest crazy idea, where would you connect the wires from the windings? I guess, all bets are off here anyway so maybe a few guesses and several different configurations are in order. The way I see it, I will have two zinc rods wrapped and I can either join them at one end by jumping over to the next rod, or, keep them isolated. If isolated, I will then have 4 wire ends to do what with? I can make it like series and just continue on down the second zinc spike while winding but then, I will have 2 wire ends. Do I tie them together? Do I "ground" one to a magnisium end block? Should I tie them together (like in the picture) and use them for the connection lead? I guess this is what experiments are for. Any advice you might have would be appreciated. Thanks. P.S. Where is a good source for copper wire? the home stores around here don't carry it unless I buy romex and strip the ground wire out of it. Or, should I use steel wire? I know, too many questions and not enough answers. Thanks.
Bill
Quote from: btentzer on January 05, 2008, 08:45:01 PM
@ Bill
That looks like a great idea to try. I look forward to hearing the results.
While waiting on my magnesium and carbon rod, I tried several experiments today.
I tried using a carpenters pencil, sharpened at both ends as one electrode, and a zinc nail for my other electrode. The reading was 750 mv. No ma. Zero!
Bruce
Did you try wetting the ground around the metals? I believe water might be responsible for the current, while the soil acts as a capacitor. In the pics you posted, the soil seems very dry, while Bill's soil seems moist.
Bill, you can also try to power alarm clocks or digital clocks, as they take small current. Ive managed to power a small digital alarm clock by 4 of my plate cells in series. The clock I'm using uses two AA's in series (3volts).
@ Bill
I was setup polar North and South. When you checked your amperage, did you simply connect the leads to your voltmeter and turn to ma's?
I was disappointed that all I got were zero's. I spent a number of hours working on this. I will try again tomorrow.
How deep are your electrodes in the ground?
@ Freezer
My ground was moist already. And I posted no pictures today. Nothing worth taking a picture of. ;)
I need some amperage. I will try a new spot tomorrow.
Bruce
Quote from: btentzer on January 05, 2008, 10:28:32 PM
@ Freezer
My ground was moist already. And I posted no pictures today. Nothing worth taking a picture of. ;)
Bruce
Ah, I was thinking of mramos's pics, sry. The dirt in his pictures seem bone dry. Maybe its soil content?
@ Freezer:
Yes, my soil is moist now, been raining for a few days prior, but, I get much better results in dry soil. I have read that others do the same. A lot of variables here though. Excellent job that you can run an alarm clock! 2 aa bats are 3 volts like you said and a bunch of mAs.
@ Bruce:
My now cut in half carbon rod(s) are 8.5 " long and are in the soil 8.2" each. The mag. blocks being only 3" long to begin with are in the soil all but the last 1/4" or so. Yes, I used the dvm first checking volts dc, then ac, then mA. I have also checked several set-ups with an analog meter but no longer do that as they match on every test. One thing about water, I have notice when I move around my electrodes or burry some new device is that, after it rains, and dries out a bit, the results get better and better. I believe this to be the result of the rain washing the dirt into place around the new device and compacting it a little and maybe, making a better connection, for lack of a better word. So, I don't think it would hurt anything to dump a bit of water around any new installation to help it settle and become part of the earth. I cannot prove this but I think it is true. Possibly, charging the earth cell accomplishes a similar effect? All I know is that I would have a heck of a time attempting to remove my electrodes now after our rain here over the past few weeks and the drying period after. I would have to dig them up as opposed to just pulling them up. When I first started using Joe's method, smal screw and copper pipe, I did not get any mA either. When my carbon rod showed up, that changed. then, magnesium...etc. If we start using coils, I believe we will see everything go up. don't forget, if you look back at the Stubblefield patents and photos posted a long time ago, his "cells" were pretty large and contained massive amounts of metal windings.
Bill
Hi Group
This is today's report
After stripping and sanding the copper off my 4 carbon rods I stuck them as a group pushed together (impatience) into the N end of my EBatt spot. I used the Mg fire brick at the S neg.
(BTW the clips kept falling off and I was keeping the leads off the wet ground so I couldn't juggle changing the meter all the time to read vac.)
This gave me
Mg- 4 C rods+ =1.67Vdc
Mg- C filter granules in a cement pot + 1.76vdc **
then I tried some knowns for controls and they were a little low
Mg- Cu pipe+ =0.6vdc
Mg- Graphite pencil+ =1.53vdc
** this is 0.12vdc higher than the other way I had done it with the granules in a paper tube in the ground. That was 1.55vdc - I may be seeing the cement getting charged. (The very first reading using cement pots was zero, then there was a little. )
Then I soldered one of the Carbon rods to a copper wire well tinned.
Mg- C rod+ 1.43v
Then I soldered 3 more and made a soldered group of 4 carbon rods
Mg- 4Crods soldered+ = 1.56vdc and 2.4vac hmm that is a lot of volts ac is it not?
I had my LED in my teeth ready to slip into line but there was no point. I was dissapointed.
After I disassembled everything I realized the Mg was attached at a copper wire which I never trusted and I should have had it clipped to the block itself. So, there is a little more hope for improved scores yet. In fact the controls were pretty low.
jeanna
Quote from: btentzer on January 05, 2008, 08:45:01 PM
I tried using a carpenters pencil, sharpened at both ends as one electrode, and a zinc nail for my other electrode. The reading was 750 mv. No ma. Zero!
Bruce
@Bruce,
I also had zero mA with the carbon zinc pair and around 0.7vdc also. Your results look right on to me.
EDIT: Oops I just re read all my results. I usually get 1.02vdc or 1.08vdc.
jeanna
Hello All,
Well, I have gone back and read all of the patents from:
http://giuli.com/earthbat/
And I do see Carbon, or Copper or Zinc as popular electrodes. And surface area is for sure, needed. Pencil only exposed a small amount of carbon to the soil.
Tomorrow I will try copper and zinc and increase the surface area. My goal is to see some amperage, and not just volts!
Bruce
EDIT:
Very Important patent information about connecting couples (pos/neg electrode) in series.
http://www.google.com/patents?id=OcFuAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&dq=patent:329724&as_drrb_ap=q&as_minm_ap=1&as_miny_ap=2008&as_maxm_ap=1&as_maxy_ap=2008&as_drrb_is=q&as_minm_is=1&as_miny_is=2008&as_maxm_is=1&as_maxy_is=2008#PPP1,M1
Jeanna:
Excellent! 1.76 vdc. That's up there in my world. I would bet you also had some mA too. This arrangement will light your led circuit and charge the cap. I believe. Great work. I did not get a chance to work on my new cell today, maybe tomorrow. I thought I had some copper wire but, when I found it, only like 6" on the spool. I have had it forever and don't recall where I obtained it from. Once we start winding coils and and employing other devices known to this group, I believe we will see something.
A side note: I received a reply to my first earth battery video on youtube last night and it said, helpfully, (ha ha) that with the power I am making, I could "recharge a AA battery in like 1.5 years. Wow!" Not a very helpful comment. Let's see where we are this summer and what "they" say then.
Bill
Most seems to have grasped the fact this is a battery of sorts not a power supply from planet earth, what you all get differing results is simple, materials and soil composition.
You are basically building a dual supply battery, one is the reasons batteries work in the first place, a current generated by a chemical reaction with the electrons trying to complete the bridge, some of you will have better results during the sunlight hours, this is because of an old school trick, did any of you ever make a solar cell with leaves?? and oohh guess what else??? you guessed it, copper sheet, the greater the plant matter in the soil or organic matter the greater the effect, even better still, you could use a ceramic pot just like the old ceramic batteries found in Egypt made from clay.
The discovery is not new by any stretch, but it's really cool that someone found it by accident, i proves that without question, if an inventor dies without revealling his secrets, someone else eventually will find the same solution.
Direct ground sheet has more surface area than pipe more like the photovoltaic school toys using leaves, however pots work better then the actual ground, whilst current will still travel in a fairly direct line across a puddle of water on the floor to kill you if a live wire is dropped in it, dissipation is always an issue.
If you like battery tech, probably the most interesting market products available under researched as to their use are uncharged batteries using charged electrolyte, you buy an empty flat battery and fill it with a bottle of electrically charged electrolyte, and instant power, aircraft use them already.
Although a liquid moving battery has a whole lot of potential, forget solid battery cases and think fluid for the battery itself and see what new products you can come up with.
OK guys...how viable is this:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=y9wktSQdyaE
Post Removed.
Bill
@ Leeroy:
Excellent find man. Electric eels and Christmas trees. 800 watts????? That's some pretty good power there. I learn something new here every day. Thanks.
Bill
I'd like to post this diagram with my line of thought, which I did post earlier as well. Basically if the earth's magnetic field is stationary then that means that we are at every point on the earth's surface at the outer rim of a faraday disc. If we could stick a cable at point A (earth's core) and point B (the surface) we should have a tremendous amount of energy.
Since that's not possible my line of thinking would be that a deep rod and a superficial rod would register a current - not sure whether just the end of the rod has to be exposed or not, would need experimentation.
Any thoughts and suggestions on this?
@ akashh:
I have one question for you. If you spin a round magnet, does the magnetic field not move? It may not, I have no idea. If not, then what you are postulating makes a lot of sense. Did you ever read of Tesla's idea (not exactly related, but close) of errecting a ring on pylons that spanned the earth maybe 20 feet off of the ground? Once constructed, his thoughts were that the pylons could then be removed and the ring would "float" as it could not fall in all directions around the earth at once. Then, he said that since the earth was rotating at about 1,000mph this device could be used to harness the rotational velocity or, to transport humans from one point on the globe, to another, by entering a capsule that ran along the ring that could be braked for entering and exiting.
Sorry, long story to make a point. If the earth is spinning (and I think it is) and the magnetic field does not rotate along with it, then your Faraday disk idea could very well be right on the money. This may be the reason for the telluric currents phenomenon. I truly believe there is more going on here than we, as an "advanced" race, realize at this point.
Bill
@Bill: If you read back a few pages, that's exactly what I posted - that I believe that the earth's magnetic is stationary and that the earth spins through it. It can be verified by simple experiments, read back a bit to some of the posts.
I do believe that is the cause of telluric currents.
What we need to do is design a set of experiments to verify whether this could give us what we are looking for.
Jenna
firstly to the person that said it would take 1.5 years to charge that battery, i seriously doubt that, i have heard rumors that a high voltage low amperage would reset the battery better than a trickle charge.
ok about my little nail experiment, you had it right, only one side of the copper coil was attatched to the amp meter, the positive of the amp meter was on the nail (doesnt really matter you will just get a negative reading if backwards) the other end of the wire was stripped and thus conductive so i left it sticking out into the air (one to 2 inch perellel with the ground) however you should know the copper never touches the ground! this for me generated a lower voltage than what we have been gettign and i cant remember the amps at the moment but it was less than what i can get on my steel aluminum. however it just dumbfounds me and thats why i think everyone should try it! its neat.
sorry but my posts will most likely become less frequent, my wife has shown great resistance twards my experiments but i shall not give up entirely! just slow down a little for the moment. cheers
bill if memory serves me right the highes battery capacity for a AA is 3200mah or miliamp, the voltage needed to charge it should be 1.7v and at one amp or amp hour it would take 3200 hours or 134 days to charge, at 2 mah it would take 67 days. so 1.5 years? last time i checked a year was 365 days, not sure what planet this dude lives on but his math sux :-p and thats assuming we dont get some "special effect" from the earth battery. as we have seen funny stuff happens :D
that idea about one electrode much deeper than the other is a wonderful idea, pretty much the same idea that has been in the forum but in light of recent developments i will explain.
if the earth truely is a faraday disk which it seems to be then its the difference in current that will bag us the best electricity, now with that in mind the experiment i propose needs to be done to test this is to take a galvanized steel tube, hammer it flat and closed on one end attatch a long insulated wire to the inside and if needed have a conductor attatched to the soldered wire on the inside to the galvanized outside? so we get the proper conductance, then use a rod or stick to "hammer" this deep into the ground, if this electrode is 6 inches long then i propose a 6-8 inch positive to match hammered into topsoil as we have done. now we should according to the laws of differential currents get a considerable boost in volts, if this works then all we need is more surface area for current according to modern science.
i chose galvanized steel because we can tap 2 aspects with it simultaneously as i am doing now, we can tap the theoretical "magnetic" aspect and the galvanic earth current aspect.Ã, if someone really wants to get fruity we could go one step further, inside this pipe we could add a layer of insulation to protect against electrical shorts and add a copper coil inside the tube, if one end of this tube is attatched to the steel pipe in the ground and the other to our wire then we might see something interesting with the magnetic flux? steel will channel a magnetic current well, steel is to magnetism as copper is to electricity, they both are preferred pathways instead of air!
we cannot use a solid rod deeper than the other however or it will produce a "short" in the curcuit. it has to be insulated from the earth with the tip exposed.
please let me know what you think.
@ Bill and all
So, after reading all of those patents last night, I went outside, first thing this morning, after building two separate "couples" consisting of one galvanized 12" spike and one 14" piece of copper tubing. Both of these electrodes are placed as close together, separated only by the thickness of a rubber band. These are then rubber banded together, to make sure they are not touching. Think underground Capacitor.
I then buried one, leaving 1" above ground, with the Zinc to the south and copper to the North. I measured the voltage of this couple and it was .743 mv
I left that couple there, and measured about 30 feet away and placed another "couple" exactly as the first. I then measured the voltage of the second couple and it read .852 volts.
Next I wired them in series. And the reading was 1.28 volts. a loss of .400 mv because of length.
Now I will fill in the 30 feet with MANY couple spaced 30 inches apart from center to center. This space is needed to keep them from shorting each other out!! ;D
@Bill
With your Carbon, magnesium, do the same, and you can garner as much power as you want. Just keep the couples spaced 30 inches apart, keep them on the North South line and there you go!!
Bruce
here is my nail setup and my idea for testing the planetary faraday disk :DÃ, now the red resembles the copper wire, and black is my positive metal and grey my negative metal.Ã, im skeptical if my copper was positive or not on copper, copper should be positive but i think my tests showed for the nail set up the nail was positive... any hoot,. heres my thoughts.
i wonder if i attatch a lead to the bottom wire in the copper coil of the nail if it would create a sort of capacitor?... hmm
@Bruce
Awesome this proves we can put enough of these in a yard to get some voltage ...
@ Bill
I had never heard the tesla pylon description you gave odd. i thought then it came to me waht you described i have only seen one place... a video game command and conquer red alert.
Funny how movies and games always get the advanced tech before us...
@Bruce,
Bravo
Good work! (unless it is just galvanic)
Around Dec 26 (sorry I don't know the page) I made a similar experiment. And I got similar results. Because of that experiment, I think you are right about this separation. Last night I decided to review this with everyone since no one picked up on it.
Here is how I did it.
I was looking for a way to give enough electrical separation from the +- pairs of electrodes so I could end up with a series type augmentation in volts. I made some pots out of cement because cement is mostly sand which has a good conductivity. My hope was that the cement would pick up the currents in the earth and be able to pass them along, but somehow be separated from the earth itself to not "short out" as everyone is calling it.
My probes went N-S then from that S place proceded NE (chosen cuz that is a good alignment here) then from that spot turned and went S once more. I did it using Cu and Zn because of ease of hook up.
What I got that day was an increase of 0.1Vdc and 1.2vac going through all 4 probes N to S but the S was not in line with the N as yours is. The spacing was no more than 4 feet altogether.
Your results are much higher. I think you are the first one here to be successful in doing this as series.
On the chance that you have a galvanic reaction one could put your pairs into cement pots and keep any poisonous leeching within the pot.
Bravo!
@Arctic Knight,
Thanks for the clarification on the nail. I will do it when the rain stops :D.
Would you be willing to make a drawing that shows that steel with flattened end with something inside ...? same reason - clarity. I think not everybody on this thread is american ;D
I am finding this site unreachable again today. I will make a wee drawing to add to my words here as an edit if that is possible.
Now, this "short" thing. To my mind If you short a battery you do not get a reading of nothing. You get so much so fast that things get very hot and melt or explode. not zero. I may be completely wrong about this but possiblly we are seeing this earth battery incorrectly. If so a modification will be helpful. For instance would the behavior of the faraday disc be like this?
jeanna
with a faraday disk 2 positives equals positive! thats a short, in our case i BELIEVE but have not proven yet that the voltage we are getting is a result in the difference of resistances of the metals also known as galvanic reaction or decay, this difference reacts with the 2 positives of the planet and the difference in hight of the poles that we are using gives us our positive and negative at different voltages. i think i can take my steel pipe and aluminum pipe and get a better reading using this diagram below. this is my future idea i just have to figure out how i am going to pull it off :D especially with the wife being fussy about my science.
please note i am not an artist by profession :D
let me describe in detail my photo and its professionaly painted detail (sarcasm humor)
what we have is the blue dot would be the connection inside the tube where the coil would be soldered, but now that i think of it just a small coil near the top of the pipe or tube would be fine not much wire should be needed to tap the magnetic feild assuming there is one to be had. but the connection in any case should be made inside the wire wound inside twards the outside and perhaps glued into place, then that wire (needs to be insulated) would extend several feet to the surface (several feet should be enough to prove a point dont you think?) simply hammering one side makes it like a stake to pierce the ground and also gives us something to hammer against for instance insert a wooden or metal rod and hammer it in :D i happen to have just such a piece of steel currently and will be trying this if i can get time. now your positive rod or metal needs to be on the surface of the ground only a few inches into the ground, (we want atleast a foot between the top of the steel "spike" and the bottom of positive pole but more space preferred. this would increas our electrical difference at the poles which should also increase our current assuming the principals of the faraday planet are true the deeper we go the more negative the soil is, but the difference in potential will only be as good as the nearest Conducting portion of the pole to the surface so if part of this springs a "leak" closer to the surface we loose part of our difference.
let me know if you have any questions about my design and theory :)
Strange behavior today. I got popped out.
Here is that drawing of sort of series in cement pots.
jeanna
@Arctic Knight
Sorry about the wife thing. I don't have one of them. ;D
Thanks for the picture. It really helps.
It seems to me that if there is a loss of voltage with any leak, then perhaps it should be glued after being soldered to the steel pipe to maintain isolation.
How many turns. And how do you figure how many turns? I can look it up to study it if it is too complicated to explain. What would I look up? what key words?
I hope is it possible to think about this without calculus?
jeanna
any number of turns seems to work, i would use close to ten or more tho.
i did some studies, the coil itself cannot tap any usable electrical magnetic energy flowing through the steel pipe when the steel pipe is in earth battery series, however when the steel rod is the onyl thing used i can get 1 miliamp AC at .005 to .05 volts! interesting isnt it?
i tried my one pole isolated and lower than the positive and that generated the same results i have been getting .5v at .1 miliamp.
i noticed when you close the battery and let it run short curcuit it seems to build energy?
later.
Quote from: Artic_Knight on January 06, 2008, 04:44:26 PM
any number of turns seems to work, i would use close to ten or more tho.
Thanks for the number.
I guess this is where the tuning thing happens. Maybe there is a sudden rise with the right number of turns? Is this how to tune?
Quotei noticed when you close the battery and let it run short curcuit it seems to build energy?
So you have this rod with coils and you are using it as a single probe that is part of a + - battery? I am unsure of this theory, I guess. The joule thief uses this coil wound magnet as a transformer but all of a piece. Not separated into primary and secondary. I assume this is related to what you are doing, but you are only using one coil, I spose it is a primary. And it is in a straight line. Why should it transform anything? I thought the transforming part of the toroid was its shape, the secondary is just a part of it.
I am sorry if I am being a pest, I want to understand this, because I think the toroid and winding the magnet and a few other things are important, here.
jeanna
i took an iron rod and wound a coil around it ive used 2 different numbers of turns that doesnt seem to matter, the wire is insulated so it doesnt make electrical contact, really theres no math no tuneing just wrap a wire around it and go, its so simple its silly! theres no tricks or nothing
@ Artic Knight:
Are you saying that I can take one of my carbon rods and wrap it with wire and, by itself, no other electrode, will produce some good power? I purchased three spools of bare copper wire today (25' ea.) but you are using insulated wire correct? Did you say the wrappings do NOT go into the earth but are on top? I am in the process of winding my zinc rods for the magnesium blcok and zinc assembly. I was planning on using this as the minus and tieing into the carbon rods for the positive. But, if I understand you correctly, a wire coiled around a steel rod is a cell in and of itself then?
Sorry for all of the questions. Hey, if your wife gives you any more trouble, sign her on here and we can tell her how important this work really is. Heck, we can have Jeanna and Hans talk to her. (smile) but, I am divorced (14 years) so don't take any relationship advice from me.
If what you are showing works for us all then, I believe we could plant a bunch of these as there would be no conflict as they seem to be stand alone cells.
@ Bruce:
Congratulations! You appear to have solved the series mystery. I never thought of trying it that way. Excellent job! With all of the creativity on here, we should be able to produce some interesting results. What do you think of Artic Knight's approach? I will await his answers then maybe change course here and try a zinc rod with some windings.
Bill
@Arctic_Night: Glad you are also excited about faraday! :-) Your idea about the coils is not entirely clear to me, but I think the key here is the difference in height between the probes in the ground. Once we prove there is a current (I would almost use the same material, 2 copper electrodes) then we can see about resonating a coil.
Can't experiment yet, broke my arm and have 1 hand otherwise I'd be trying this out.
Uh, you said 1 AMP at .005 AC - is that correct? Please clarify because that is very important...
the difference in hight for the probes didnt work for me but maybe i didnt do it right, i still think it should work.
yes bill you have the idea with the coils its ontop above ground and use the zink rod to test it, i think the zink will have an iron core, try your carbon too while your at it just put something between that bare wire and the probe, i shorted mine out and it didnt really work that well but still got voltage, just no current! wierd eh?
im sorry if that is what i have said, ive been getting .1mah sometimes .2mah on all of my experiments :) if i break that barrier you will here a lot more than a passive comment about it here, ill be making a fit of it :-p
what i feel is important with this coil set up is it is mostly ac based!Ã, dc doesnt do that well with this set up
also worth noting this wire around the rod in the ground, i tried this approach with the aluminium and it worked but was not as satisfying, i believe the iron (and steel) has something that helps
bill somthing to look at, i thought my wire was bare, its enameled, it has a clear plastic coat :D
Hi Bill,
My setup worked on increasing the voltage, but still no amperage. My 1/2" carbon and magnesium will be here this week and I will be hoping for some ma readings.
I would suggest you try putting your carbon and magnesium as close to one another as possible, without touching. Perhaps put a plastic knife, or something between them. Make two of these couples, spaced about 15 feet apart (To make sure they don't short each other out) and wire them in series as I showed in my drawing. Your voltage should now be doubled!!
All of those old patents were always carbon and zinc and one mentioned "excellent" magnesium. ;) Also, I am feeling confident that this is telluric current, because the south is always negative and the north positive, as it should be if it is telluric current being tapped. So that too is a positive thing.
I would suggest the following: Try two couples in series. If it works at fifteen feet, continue moving one couple closer to the other, and see how short of a distance you can get, before series no longer works.
Then, once we determine that, we can wire in series to reach 12 volts and then start another row in parallel to give us much more current. Then we test and see how long the magnesium and carbon last, and power some real lights!! ;D
Let me know what you think.
Cheers,
Bruce
Artic Knight:
Thanks for the answers. How are you measuring ac amps? I have both a digital and analog meter and I don't see any settings or scales for ac amps. I can pretty much get 2.0 mA (DC) on a consistant basis but I hope to do better once I finish winding this new device. I have already wound 25 feet of wire on it and am a little less than halfway done!! If this doesn't do any good at least I'll have a very, very long copper slinky. This is bare, no coatings which may turn out to be a bad thing. I will see. Thanks.
Bill
@ Bruce:
I agree about the telluric currents. My neg. is always to the south also. If just pure galvanic, it would not matter where it was facing right? I keep trying to explain this to several friends who think I am nuts. I am going to try this new device which if it does not give me a decent improvement I will go back to the "standard" set-up and use your arrangement. About 6 feet apart (n/s) is as far as I can go in my little garden here. This is all the room I have to work with at the moment. but, I believe your idea will work even that close, and I will try it. Wonderful thinking there.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on January 06, 2008, 10:01:41 PM
This is bare, no coatings which may turn out to be a bad thing. I will see. Thanks.
Bill,
Wind it in parallel with fishing line to separate turns. This way turns won't be shorted.
George
akashh.
Can't experiment yet, broke my arm and have 1 hand otherwise I'd be trying this out.
That sounds awfully painful, hope you didn't fall over while experimenting :(
Heal well and quick.
Regards Den.
Arctic Knight
Is your wound nail inside?
It may be a good scientific idea to make some control tests. (I always try to mention mine. I'm sure you and others do them but don't bother to mention them.)
For instance, with DMM leads as you have them outside, measure the voltage and amperage doing some comparable exercises. For instance with sand or some dirt in a jar put the wound nail in series or whatever with a piece of steel. If your results are coming from telluric currents or some earth currents you should get nothing by doing this inside.
Also, just to check further, run a magnet by it back and forth. You should have a good strong reading by doing this and both of these can be something you can use to check your EBat results next time you go outside.
@everyone
It would help me and I assume it would help everyone if we all shared the controls we do while we are experimenting.
jeanna
Quote from: Pirate88179 on January 06, 2008, 10:01:41 PM
I have already wound 25 feet of wire on it and am a little less than halfway done!! If this doesn't do any good at least I'll have a very, very long copper slinky. This is bare, no coatings which may turn out to be a bad thing. I will see. Thanks.
Bill
Bill,
How did you know how many turns you want to make? (was that in the dream too?) How do you calculate turns needed? Or length of wire?
jeanna
@ Jeanna:
Well, this was a very complicated calculation. Just kidding. I am just wrapping the total surface area of the zinc spikes as tightly as possible with 18 ga. bare copper wire. This got a little more complex in that I added another magnesium block in the center for a total of three. This is slow going winding this. If I get it done tonight, I will try to post a photo. It may do nothing more than just be a good neg. electrode as it has 3 mag. blocks and 2 12" long zinc spikes. By adding over 60 feet of this copper wire I was hoping it might "collect" more of the telluric currents. Maybe a total waste of time but, at least I will have learned what does not work. I have been thinking about how to present it into the earth. Vertical? Horizontal? On its side? There are also several ways I can align it n/s as well. Well, back to winding.
@ Georgemay:
Thanks for the idea. Since this is bare wire I believe it will short out to the zinc "core" anyway if there is going to be a shorting problem. Great idea though. Thanks.
Bill
All
quote betanzer
All of those old patents were always carbon and zinc and one mentioned "excellent" magnesium
I asked before of the composition off your fire starter blocks.
Camp fire starter.
Commonly used fire starter: You carve off some shavings of magnesium from the block using your hunting knife, then strike the flint with the back of the knife to ignite the shavings. I removed the striker bar (see Cerium for a video of this bar being sparked with a knife). This one was purchased from Walmart in April 2002.
How pure is the magnesium you get at Walmart? Analysis by x-ray fluorescence spectroscopy at the Center for Microanalysis of Materials, University of Illinois (partially supported by the U.S. Department of Energy under grant DEFG02-91-ER45439) gives the following composition:
97.24% Magnesium
1.21% Zinc
1.11% Manganese
0.44% Iron
So, not too bad. It's not reagent grade, but it's decent technical grade magnesium.
Source: Walmart
Contributor: Theodore Gray
Acquired: 15 April, 2002
Price: $4
Size: 3"
Purity: 97.2%
or http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4770669.html
Just out of interest
http://www.periodictable.com/Elements/058/index.html
There IMHO has to be some reference through posts as to purity of materials and a reference to solid state components used. ( I would love, to have a knowledge of these let alone how vacuum tubes did the same thing but produced as far as radios and turntables are concerned a far richer and to me true sound.
I am still trying to find out the magnesium content of mag wheels, the wheel well gives one a huge area to wind a coil.
Den
Quote
I am still trying to find out the magnesium content of mag wheels, the wheel well gives one a huge area to wind a coil.
Den
Den,
Do you have a rim? Why don't you just try it out? Maybe it doesn't matter too much how much mg it has.
I just tested my second jule thief winding, since I just made a case for A K to do it, and I found just hanging from my hand, it delivers 0.014vdc-0.021vdc pretty amazing for nuthin!
I'm gonna finish this second joule thief but I am thinking after I wind a nail and a couple of other dozen things that have been suggested here, I will look around for some bigger round metal things with holes in the middle so I can wind them and see. it might not be a bad thing, if it is magnetizable, either.
jeanna
jenna
unfotunatley only have access to a garden plot 4ftx 3 in the wrong direction. I am tapping into a mango tree at present with a screwdriver 3/16 shaft dia and a woven wire brass mesh 4 " into ground 2 '" away . Very confined.
I get 0.9 acv. and unfortunately have wiped out record of dvc. no ma
will be moving in 6 weeks :) with more room but will take me more time to catch up and hopefully be of more assistance.
Den
Here is a picture of my new device. I just need to solder some leads and connectors and I can try it out.
Bill
I am considering wrapping the copper wire, where it is exposed, with electrical tape. This would make it easier to clean once I dig it up again. Had I used insulated wire, this would be the same in some repsects, right? Anyone have any thoughts on this? I did a continuity test on every point I could think of and my connections are all 100% between the wires, blocks, and spikes.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on January 07, 2008, 01:43:34 PM
I am considering wrapping the copper wire, where it is exposed, with electrical tape. This would make it easier to clean once I dig it up again. Had I used insulated wire, this would be the same in some repsects, right? Anyone have any thoughts on this? I did a continuity test on every point I could think of and my connections are all 100% between the wires, blocks, and spikes.
Bill
It certainly looks beautiful.
Since the Meyer? patent calls for uninsulated wire, I thought you should try it just as the dream told you without any suggestions from me. ;D
But if it doesn't work, the first thing I (!) would change would be to rewrap it in insulated wire. Right now, you have copper, zinc and magnesium all touching each other. And lots of surface area of copper.
I'm looking forward to hearing what comes of this.
jeanna
I took some rough readings from my yard this time, to compare with tap water.
Distance between plates (1"x1") / Milliamps
Wet Soil - 0.81 volts
1/16" - 0.78mA
1" - 0.29mA
2" - 0.24mA
3" - 0.21mA
Tap Water - 0.80 volts
1/32" - 1.43mA
1/16" - 1.21mA
1" - 0.68mA
2" - 0.51mA
3" - 0.43mA
I didn't see any increase with polar alignment, or any orientation for that matter. The soil reading for the most part were inconsistent, so I approximated as best I could. I was surprised to see such an increase in mA with distance between the plates in the water cell. I was thinking about putting some type of cloth between the plates and then put it in a clamp with some major pressure to see if I can get even more mA's. I'm also thinking about some type of copper disc hooked up to a motor to spin it in water to increase mA's, if I can find out how to keep a connection while its spinning.
well thats an interesting wound um... thing.. definately not what i did! but hell i hope it produces one hell of a current!
my control? i had it connected to the amp meter before i inserted into the ground and got 12 to 187 Milivolt. however my amp meter is sensitive enough that it gets electricity in milivolts when you wave it wildly in the air! if the electrods are laid out on a table it does 12milivolt if you dangle it and let it move 100+ cool eh?
for the amps on ac its the same as dc theres only one amp reading and it works with both. er i think it does..... yea mine has one option for amps.
@ Artic Knight:
Thanks for your best wishes. I know that this new design does not represent what you have been talking about. This was just an idea that came to me in that strange region between sleep and being awake. This will be the first time I have tied all of the mag. blocks and the zinc rods together. The copper windings? I have no idea what they might, or might not do. There is only one way to find out, right? I was thinking a little more on your theory.. If I take an "air coil" and run a magent through it, I generate an electrical current. (like the shake light flashlights) Possibly an easy way to test your idea might simply be to use an air coil by itself and place it in the ground. If oriented correctly, and, if your ideas are correct, we should see something yes? At this point, I am inclined to give some weight to your ideas of the telluric currents. Picture a copper coil burried in the ground at the proper alignement (of which I don't know what that would be for a coil) and being of decent size. If this is placed such that the magnetic field passes through it due to the earth's rotation, then, we have an answer to your postulation. Simple coil as was in my flashlight. No core at all needed.
I added the copper windings in the hopes of capturing more of the telluric currents but, I may have it wired wrong and it may short out to the mag. blocks. If this is not a decent improvement, I will try the coils alone, a decent sized one, just to see. What do you think?
Bill
G'day artic and all,
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3500.0;attach=16235;image
As to your coil experiments, have a look at another Stubblefield device. Looks as though you are heading in the right direction.
Hans von Lieven
This is a better picture, right hand side, foreground. This picture has an excellent resolution. If you download it and magnify it you will get a better look. Cheers,
Hans
Ahhh so thats why he patented a speaker thingy too ... i was reading that one the other night..... Round thing with brass bead in middle or whatever it is ive seen it in a few pics now
G'day Joe,
I have never heard of a PATENT for the speaker, any details??
Hans von Lieven
@hans here it is
i found it searching for patents of his.
Sorry, I was not explicit. I know about this one, this is NOT the device in the photo though. The device in the patent is a mechanical device, similar to the "telephones" we built as kids with two tin cans and a taut string. The device in the photo is of an electrical nature, it gets talked about in his writings but I have not been able to get any further information on it.
Hans von Lieven
Hans:
Great pictures. If this works today, this should be an enlargement of the coils. I tried to clean it up a little but my software is limited. It looks like fine wire wrapped around some brass assemblies of some kind. I want to read the patent on these things. Thanks.
Bill
G'day Bill and all,
I am not so sure about the brass. To me, on first impression it looked like an old fashioned porcelain insulator used by the telegraph companies at that time. Hard to tell. Perhaps they still have one or two of these things in the museum where they exhibit some of his devices.
Hans von Lieven
It would appear from your photo, Bill, that Stubblefield's coil(s) were on top of a rod. So he inserted the rod into the ground and the top coils never went into the ground. They look nothing like his patent.
Bruce
This is NOT his earth battery btentzer,
This is a different device.
Hans von Lieven
Just to give you guys something more to chew over.
Hans von Lieven
@ Hans:
Wow, I am going to have to study this latest picture.
If you look closley at the enlargment I posted of your picture, you can see the horizon reflected in two of the spheres. you can see trees and what appears to be an open field. Even the glazed ceramic insulators won't do that I don't think. This is what led me to think brass or aluminum maybe? The M.E. that examined Stubblefield's body said that there were two metalic spheres in the room providing heat. I wonder if they were larger versions of these devices? I didn't want to zoom in any more as I wanted to show the coils but, if you enlarge it yourself and look into the reflections I think you will see what I mean. What do you think? From what I have read on his telephone patents, might these be the "earth transmitters" and "receivers" In other words, antennas? I have not made it to the museum as of yet, but I am going to go.
Bill
@ Bill,
The ceramic insulators at the time were made from glazed porcelain. They were shiny when new. Depending on how the light hits them they will give a mirror effect. Polished brass however would not last long in the open with a shine. They would dull very quickly. At this stage it is still anyone's guess.
Hans von Lieven
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg153.imageshack.us%2Fimg153%2F5444%2Fsrda0.jpg&hash=994f79fe460c71feb656c1b5dc4a68aa7f3f1c50)
Enhanced it a bit more, still hard to see exactly whats happening there. Seems like there's only one wire? So it looks as though a rod is placed through a coil, but whats the function of the domes? If we have the right image we could perhaps tell what direction north is in the picture based on the sky, if that helps.
On another note, I finished 8 cells, and am waiting to get some containers to link them all. The distance between the plates made a good deal of difference, now giving 16mA per 4-plate cell. I think with about 100 of these cells I could actually have a real battery. :D
Quote from: hansvonlieven on January 08, 2008, 04:29:21 PM
The ceramic insulators at the time were made from glazed porcelain.
Hans von Lieven
Hans or anyone,
Do you know what those ceramic insulators had inside them? Not Stubblefield's I mean from the tel company when it started? I think I remember seeing some things like that when I was a child. What was the purpose of the insulation? Was this a capacitor of some sort?
these pictures are great. What comes to my mind immediately is something Dr. Who might step into. ;D
Thank you, Hans. And Bill and Freezer for the magnifications.
jeanna
@ Jeanna:
We used to machine ceramics for the electronics and defense industries. We made many styles of stand-offs (using much higher tech materials) which were used as insulators. Generally, they had an ID that a fastener could pass through, like a bolt, and the dielectric strength of the material insulated the voltage from passing to the bolt from the O.D.
Now, in the old days, they used porcelain, which is a very low-tech porous material which is why they needed to glaze it (coat it with glass) to keep moisture out of it. Over time, the moisture would reduce the insulation value of the stand-off.
So, my guess, if Hans is right about them being ceramic, is that they just have a hole in the center through which he (Stubblefield) passes what appears to be a rod. All of this is just a guess, except for my ceramic experience with the insulators.
@ Freezer:
Great close-up and enhancement.
Bill
Thank you Bill,
I'm gonna drop back and punt. I want to describe what I see. Maybe if we all do that we can pass around ideas. ?
I See 4 coils like chokes. 3 are one size and 1 is shorter. I can not see the ground but it appears that they are stuck in the ground. On one of them the wire extends to the top of the black box and I see another shorter coil at this top spot but I can't see if it is from a separate wire but it looks to me like the end of one of them. On the top does one of these wires become that antenna looking thing?
On the other side of the black thing, next to his son, are 4 straight poles. Again probably but not shown to be stuck in the ground. 3 look similar in that they have a globe on the top above the "beer can" and one is shorter and has only a hemisphere on its top part.
I see one wire from each of these and on the 3 taller ones with globe tops, I see the wire attached to the very top and circling around to attach again at the bottom of the globe. (I see this mostly in front of the child's arm.) On the shorter one the wire is just attached at the bottom of the upper hemisphere. In all cases, I see them no longer touching the pole and appearing to go down. Maybe they also touch or go into the ground?
What else do you see? There sure are a lot of wires and things
jeanna
altho i have not proven it yet and it may already be known knowledge, i believe i have a way of turning a multi coil assembly into nothing more than a capacitor that is unlimited in its capacitence! its a theory at this time however.
i think that perhaps what we should be exploring as far as coils are concerned is iron wire coils. thats my personal opinion. as far as your device, it looks fine, please test it and see what happens! but in the spirit of testing if it fails or if you get a wild hair, alter it while your there and see what else you can do!
on all of my experiments i intend to do one thing and eventually mix it up and try many things, lets take the step up transformer or makeshift jule thief for instance, i took a nail and wrapped 2 coils around it, tried them in different configs with the nail then tried them as air coils nothing worked, out of bordom i left one coil on it and stabbed the nail into the ground, with the coil dangling above the ground i started to get something, i then tried adding the other end of the coil to ground ect and found that a coil plainly wrapped around a form of iron makes a nice ac current! all from frustration because one experiment didnt work LOL.
i say dig a hole and bury it, lets see what it will do, after your done, modify it and see if you can figure something out that works! once we get enough working devices perhaps we can find what is actually happening and optimize one device to work better :)
the spirit of inventing and experimenting is to modify and change something till we get results, then go back to the desk and devise more!
a comment about hanz ceramic pole items. it looks to me like its rebar with a material that acts as a capacitor and a coil to tap the usable current from the capacitor.
the pole in the center is positive tapping from earth, like the large cap i have here, the outer rim is resistive and the coil takes the radiative energy and turns it to something amplified and more usable. for instance the old beer bottle capacitor. if you research tesla coils you will see some home made caps out of glass beer bottles aluminum foil and an electrode inside the bottle. same basic idea slightly different results.
however remember we are dealing with volts and amps multiply the two and you get watts, there is no electrical device known at this time to take a watt and increase it, so if hes making this current more usable hes simply upping the voltage and lowering the amps respectively.
Quote from: Artic_Knight on January 08, 2008, 10:20:15 PM
it looks to me like its rebar with a material that acts as a capacitor and a coil to tap the usable current from the capacitor.
the pole in the center is positive tapping from earth, like the large cap i have here,
Which cap is that? Are you calling the nail in the ground the cap? (Or did I miss a page?)
the outer rim is resistive
Outer rim?
and the coil takes the radiative energy and turns it to something amplified and more usable. for instance the old beer bottle capacitor. if you research tesla coils you will see some home made caps out of glass beer bottles aluminum foil and an electrode inside the bottle. same basic idea slightly different results.
Yes, I have made a couple of this type of cap. but I am missing the part where the coiled wire comes in.
however remember we are dealing with volts and amps multiply the two and you get watts, there is no electrical device known at this time to take a watt and increase it, so if hes making this current more usable hes simply upping the voltage and lowering the amps respectively.
And I remember the time I took a cap and juiced it then connected it to a resistor and a light. Without the resistor there would have been NO amps and no light, but with the resistance the amps happened. Well the light happened. I started out with just volts no amps then through the resistor I got a light. It is this that makes me not worry about not getting amps in my earth battery. If I can just get enough voltage into a capacitor I can rig it up to get amps.
I think these coils are very interesting because they may be able to bring down some voltage in a less than lightning size quantity.
Thanks Arctic Knight. You go very fast and I have a time keeping up with you, and I think you have good ideas. Please explain them more fully.
Thank you.
jeanna
Hey Guys,
I received my Carbon rod via UPS today! It is a hollow rod. This should give me more surface area, if that matters. I will try it tomorrow and hope for some ma's. ;)
I am still waiting on the magnesium fire starters.
I want my micro tpu ground powered by the end of this weekend.
@ Freeze
I saw the picture of your cells, and as close as they are to one another, they are capacitors with the earth as a dialectic, no? This is how my copper/ zinc couples are set up, but the plates may be the way to go.
I saw four plates per cell, is this correct? Have you tested with only two plates, or six plates, to see if it matters?
What metal type are your plates made out of??
@ Bill
Have you tried your coil yet?
Cheers,
Bruce
Quote from: jeanna on January 08, 2008, 09:40:02 PM
Thank you Bill,
I'm gonna drop back and punt. I want to describe what I see. Maybe if we all do that we can pass around ideas. ?
I See 4 coils like chokes. 3 are one size and 1 is shorter. I can not see the ground but it appears that they are stuck in the ground. On one of them the wire extends to the top of the black box and I see another shorter coil at this top spot but I can't see if it is from a separate wire but it looks to me like the end of one of them. On the top does one of these wires become that antenna looking thing?
On the other side of the black thing, next to his son, are 4 straight poles. Again probably but not shown to be stuck in the ground. 3 look similar in that they have a globe on the top above the "beer can" and one is shorter and has only a hemisphere on its top part.
I see one wire from each of these and on the 3 taller ones with globe tops, I see the wire attached to the very top and circling around to attach again at the bottom of the globe. (I see this mostly in front of the child's arm.) On the shorter one the wire is just attached at the bottom of the upper hemisphere. In all cases, I see them no longer touching the pole and appearing to go down. Maybe they also touch or go into the ground?
What else do you see? There sure are a lot of wires and things
jeanna
It's not all that complicated Jeanna.
Get your clues from the first picture I posted. Consider Stubblefield to be on the receiving end of a line as the picture says. Then go back to the larger picture. To me it is simple. The second picture is a shot of a base station with four subscribers. Whether it actually worked or whether it was especially set up for the photograph is anyone's guess though I favour the second. His real base station would have had many, many wires, far too confusing to show to anyone. I think this is a picture taken to promote his service.
I am having second thoughts about the ceramic insulators.
I come from a small rural community in Germany. I am also quite old. When I was a kid, and for quite a few years after that there were still many telegraph poles around that had been set up during Stubblefield's time. Many of them still had their original insulators.
I have racked my brains trying to think whether they had holes that went through them or not.
I do not think they did. If that is what Stubblefield used he must have drilled the hole to the top himself, not a difficult task, but I think he would have had to do it.
I'll do a bit of checking but I have a feeling this is right.
Hans von Lieven
Con-tseung-tious say: Only diligent contemplation and investigation will Lead Out truth in scientific investigation. :D
Flying Saucer here we come!!!
Quote from: btentzer on January 09, 2008, 02:39:27 AM
I saw the picture of your cells, and as close as they are to one another, they are capacitors with the earth as a dialectic, no? This is how my copper/ zinc couples are set up, but the plates may be the way to go.
I saw four plates per cell, is this correct? Have you tested with only two plates, or six plates, to see if it matters?
What metal type are your plates made out of??
I'm just using copper and galvanized sheet. The plates don't do well when 90 degrees to each other, only parallel, where the surface area is most effective and close. I tried the clamp, and it wasn't much better than 1/16 to around a millimeter, in mA's. I've been testing out different shapes to see, and am still testing different ways to do it. I did test that 12 plate cell and it wasn't very good, mainly due to the distance between, so I changed it. Its like two magnets, the closer they are the more force.
If you surround the electrode with the other it gives better mA's, which is why I guess its good to sandwich the plates, as you have two plates which are covered on both sides. I read through more cell patents, and all of them have the two metals close together as possible. For instance I read one where the zinc, and copper sheet were rolled into a spiral with cloth separating them. Got me thinking maybe the golden section done with zinc/copper could yield more. When you wrap it in that such way you also cover both sides with the other metal. If you are putting it into the soil, the distance between the plates will be limited, unless you surround the outside with soil, and use a special material separator in-between, which doesn't block the energy. I guess you would have to test it to see. Some earth patents I read even use sprinkler systems hooked to it as well.
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg72.imageshack.us%2Fimg72%2F8018%2Fcell2jv1.jpg&hash=971c69afa24d425fc5f191ca2caf8bde1071ef2b)
Quote from: hansvonlieven on January 09, 2008, 03:14:35 AM
The second picture is a shot of a base station with four subscribers.
Oh yea. I was thinking about earth batteries and completely forgot about telephone switching stations.
I am having second thoughts about the ceramic insulators.
Many of them still had their original insulators.
I have racked my brains trying to think whether they had holes that went through them or not.
I'll do a bit of checking but I have a feeling this is right.
Hans von Lieven
Con-tseung-tious say: Only diligent contemplation and investigation will Lead Out truth in scientific investigation. :D
Flying Saucer here we come!!!
Yeah , I'm ready! -- HA!
I am remembering the blu-ish thick glass insulators the electric company (I think electric) used. When they were no longer used, people collected them. You can still find them in yard sales in places like Maine, USA. They are very thick, maybe thicker than the old coke bottles. They are hemispheric on the top and are only slightly bell shaped with a couple of ridges on the sides of the bell. I suppose they prevented coronal discharge sitting on the top of tel/electric poles. There is something about them that reminds me of the ones S used.
He used the hemisphere or was it a hyperbola? to radiate the Infra red heat in his house. (according to that coronor's report.) Same shape.
The thing that is going on in my mind is a thought generated by that frequency driven motor that (was it) Dayton C Miller? had in his collection. If you can generate a sound and direct it to the focal point of a hyperbola I think it would then be redirected straight out from all points of the curve. I am not sure what I think it would do then but it may be what S was doing. Maybe he was redirecting the frequency back to theground then ultimately to the coils. I am quite ignorant about these telephone and telegraph things. Probably there is a simple and standard use that anyone skilled in the art would immediately see.
I am just free associating. It is how I get good ideas. :D
So, what I am seeing together is the shape, maybe hemisphere, maybe hyperbolic - probably not parabolic but maybe, and frequencies. In his house the frequency was IR and in the tel system it was sound which is the same thing as IR and colors only much slower.
OK done for now
jeanna
@ Freezer
A fine job! Thanks for the info and pictures.
Would you test a "miniature" cell, and see if it reads the same? If it does, we can shrink the whole thing, if perhaps surface area does not matter??
@ All
Well, I have a small bit of good news to report! I am finally getting ma's!! It turns out that I have been all along and did not know it. The fuse for the ma's in my NEW voltmeter was burned out. ;D I have been spending all morning redoing my previous experiments, plus some.
My Carbon tube rod, 1/2" od is in the ground about three feet. Polar south of it, in the ground about 9 inches is my galvanized spike (nail) 1.04 volts @ .133 ma's.
My old experiment of "couples", similar to Freezer, but using spike and copper tubing, yielded .770 mv @ .156 ma's.
I am about to go and re test my coil I built. I will let you know what it reads.
So, based on what we think we know, Freezer's set up, using carbon and magnesium plates might be the way to go, if we can't get some type of coil working.
Magnesium and carbon seem to be the ticket for amperage.
Cheers,
Bruce
@ Freezer,
Lovely job. Allow me to make a suggestion for improvement. Instead of arranging the plates as in Fig A in the attached graphic I suggest you try the layout in Fig B. The gap between the centre plates serves no electrical purpose as the two plates are electrically connected. It will work to your detriment as any galvanic action between those plates will not only corrode your plates but go "against the stream" as it were.
By putting the plates hard against each other and perhaps even sealing the edge so no moisture can get between the plates you should get superior performance.
Hans von Lieven
@ All:
OK. A new mA record here with the new cell! I will be making a few posts to show some pictures of today's experiments.
Results: 8.98 mA
This is my best thus far. This picture is of the meter on the mA setting and it was actually a bit higher (9.3) but quickly fell to 8.98. As you will see in the following pictures in the next few posts, I wired everything together for a major test the first time out. I was going for broke. I tested the new cell in many different configurations while hooked to the meter reading vdc. I finally found that I got the best vdc reading with the cell vertical, so I burried it that way. I dumped a little water on the newly burried cell as I always do to help the soil conform to the area of the cell. If it holds as it has in the past, my readings will go up as it dries out some. Plus, the soil is still wet here from a lot of rain several days ago and as that dries, things should get better.
Not as good as I was hoping for but, my best to date.
Bill PS Freezer: nice work on your fabrication.
Here is a shot of the meter with :
1.45 vdc
I obtained this along with the 8.98 mA.
(sorry for the multiple posts but if I attempt more than 1 photo per post, it times out on me)
Bill
This is a shot of the top of the new cell as it is in the ground at this point. I have a general overall shot of the entire setup which I will use paint and label so it is more clear to all. (I am still excited here!)
OK I'll try to post this again. It said "cannont find overunity.com"
Bill
@ Bill
Bravo!! That is awesome news! But you never gave the voltage. What was your voltage? ;)
EDIT:
Found it!! We posted at the same time.
So, 1.45 volts @ 8.98 ma gives us .013021 watts.
But to build another one would cost you what, $30 USD?
Cheers,
Bruce
This is a drawing/photo of the test layout used today. If it is not clear, or anyone has any questions, please ask. Thanks. I am going back out to see how many leds I can light, etc. I know it's still not a lot of power, but, still heading in the right direction.
@ Bruce:
I am glad you are getting mA now. Blown fuse? Hey, it happens.
Bill
@ Bruce:
Thanks! Actually, to build the cell I used today on the minus side (there is a good photo of it a few pages back) would not cost that much. The zinc spikes are like $1 ea. (2) and the mag blocks are about $4 ea. (3) and I had some 18 ga. copper wire lying about that I finally found. I still think we can do better on the magnusium blocks from another source like mcmaster or something. If we can find plate stock of both carbon and magnesium then freezer's design would be the best I think. Surface area is what gives amps, I am just about sure of that from my experience here. I got good volts using carbon/mag. but not much mA until I greatly increased surface area. And, as you see, my volts are down a bit but, mA is up and power is everything right? I also like Hans's idea for Freezer about placing the plates together and sealing them as he said. Once your magnesium get there, you will be an order of magnitude better with mA I believe.
@ All:
I know I have probably missed some posts here so I will go back and read. I am just thrilled that my idea worked, to an extent, when I have no "theory" other than surface area to explain it. I have not yet tried "juicing" the cell with the old 9 volt but may do that later to see what happens. The copper wire may play a part in this, or maybe not.
Bill
QuoteThe thing that is going on in my mind is a thought generated by that frequency driven motor that (was it) Dayton C Miller? had in his collection.
G'day Jeanna and all.
You have really intrigued me with that comment. A frequency driven motor? This I would like to see. I cannot find a reference to it in Miller's writings. Can you remember where you heard about this?
I shall go down on my knees and cyber-kiss your toes if you can point me in the right direction. ;)
Hans von Lieven
Quote from: hansvonlieven on January 09, 2008, 04:49:34 PM
QuoteThe thing that is going on in my mind is a thought generated by that frequency driven motor that (was it) Dayton C Miller? had in his collection.
G'day Jeanna and all.
You have really intrigued me with that comment. A frequency driven motor? This I would like to see. I cannot find a reference to it in Miller's writings. Can you remember where you heard about this?
I shall go down on my knees and cyber-kiss your toes if you can point me in the right direction. ;)
Hans von Lieven
Sorry Hans,
Not Miller but Rudolph Koenig. It is on the forum page on your site. And He called it an acoustic turbine. Which after it went through a few circuits in my own brain came out as frequency motor. Sort of similar. I tried to find it when I was writing but it just evaded me. :( As I mentioned I was reeling with multiple associations going on in my brain!) so sorry.
jeanna
I love you Jeanna,
I thought I had really missed a major thing in my research and you are telling me you got it from my site. WOW the boost to my ego.
Consider your toesies kissed anyway. ;D
Hans
WAYDAGO Bill!!
You are the great inspiration here.
Just to sooth my envious heart, I put together 2 of those carbon and Aluminum in a sodium carbonate solution to get a light. I was wondering if I had forgotten how to wire a led or something. It works, so I guess my wiring is OK.
I have 3 (wired for surety) cells in the back yard. 2 of them give me an increase but the 3rd either shorts out or makes the voltage go down. But at no time do I ever get more than 1.64vdc. The carbon rods are only a very small amount better than the carbon pencil and the carbon filter granules are better than either. I wired everything out there and still not enough for a light. by a hair. Once I got 1.8vdc. but no light on the led.
I am keeping them outside to charge up from the currents. That seems to help with the cement pots. Next thing to do is dig some deep holes and do what Bruce and Freezer are doing.
jeanna
I really did enjoy your site, Hans
I gotta go help a friend
jeanna
Hey guys,
I think that I have hit upon a little something! ;D
Using my carbon rod north, as the positive electrode, and then I used my galvanized spike as the negative electrode. .7 mv at .123 ma.
Next, I took more spikes, going from East to West (This is the only way it gives decent results!) at a distance of about 8" each. I wired all of the spikes in series to the original neutral spike. EVERY time I added a spike, the ma's increased. I got up to .302 ma.
It is not the amperage amount that is interesting, (very small compared to others) but it is the percentage of increase that is amazing, and that this is nothing at all like wiring batteries in parallel.
@ Bill
If you took another of your coils and connected it in series to your neutral line, Your ma's would again increase dramatically. I would bet anything on that, after seeing what I have seen this afternoon.
Nothing like the sweet smell of progress! Small incremental increases will add up.
I remember you did something like this, Bill with another electrode, also. I think this is an important principle to remember.
Cheers,
Bruce
@ Bruce:
Great job! I did, as you have done by tieing in your electrodes which yeilds better mA. I believe this is a case for the increased surface area = more mA. My "coil" arrangement most likely did nothing more than in crease surface area. I have read of your work with the tpu and I respect your knowledge on coils. Mine is next to non-existant. Having said that, I want to propose that, possibly, Stubblefield was using coils of two dissimilar metals in an effort to increase surface area, ie amps, in as small a package as possible. There still remains the effect of ac on the coils which also may be coming into play...I don't know at this point.
What I am trying to say is, if I could learn how to wrap 2 metals together in a coil arrangement ala Stubblefield, AND learn what to do with the 4 ends of the wires from the 2 coils, I would bet that, even if we just used materials that he had used, we would see increases in our power output. So, the coils MAY not be to up ac current at all, maybe just a way to "fool" the earth into thinking it has very large annodes and cathodes stuck into it. What do you think? Essentially, I think this is all we have been doing by connecting our + electrodes together and our - electrodes together. Making them act as larger electrodes.
I also did east west with my multiple electrodes, not out of any scientific reasoning, but purely due to area constrictions here at the little garden. There still maybe an ac component to all of this which we can exploit using your tpu devices. but, for now, I am convinced that surface area = amps.
@ Jeanna:
Thank you for your kind words. I am not disappointed in my results although I had hoped for a bigger leap than this. But, it is still heading in the correct direction. I told a friend of mine about my results and he said..."Wow, at this rate, in 2 years you might be able to light 5 leds." I detected a note of sarcasm in his voice when he said this. I guess he was not impressed. The work continues. I can't wait to see what Freezer's cells will do. He has a supirior design in my opinion. If we can replicate it with mag. and carbon, look out.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on January 09, 2008, 09:11:27 PM
the increased surface area = more mA. My "coil" arrangement most likely did nothing more than in crease surface area.
What I am trying to say is, if I could learn how to wrap 2 metals together in a coil arrangement ala Stubblefield, AND learn what to do with the 4 ends of the wires from the 2 coils, I would bet that, even if we just used materials that he had used, we would see increases in our power output.
but, for now, I am convinced that surface area = amps.
@ Jeanna:
Thank you for your kind words. I am not disappointed in my results although I had hoped for a bigger leap than this. But, it is still heading in the correct direction. I told a friend of mine about my results and he said..."Wow, at this rate, in 2 years you might be able to light 5 leds." I detected a note of sarcasm in his voice when he said this. I guess he was not impressed. The work continues. I can't wait to see what Freezer's cells will do. He has a supirior design in my opinion. If we can replicate it with mag. and carbon, look out.
Bill
I think you are correct about surface area = amps. I will just have to dig some deep holes and put these electrodes down into them. And I will make them 30" apart and I will do it as a series of 4 since I have 4 carbon rods.
The glacier dropped a heap of 2" rocks which later got infiltrated with soil. It is almost as hard as digging hardpan, and to pound a stake into this especially a breakable one like carbon, just isn't possible. So, since I have tried everything else without much success, I am now willing to dig up 18 inches of rocks then strain them then put back soil without rocks. I have been trying to avoid this, but oh well, now's the time.
I feel much more confident about winding with 2 wires just from having gone through the steps to make a joule thief. Radio shak has the transistor for 69 c. and some lousy magnets but cheap and it worked. I recommend it mostly because there is some sense to it and where the ehds go etc. now that my hands have done it once.
Oh, and my opinion about friends who don't understand the sheer joy of creating is "It is their loss" ::)
Tomorrow is another day, and it will be a perfect day to do some good digging. So say I!
jeanna
@ Bruce, yes carbon and magnesium would probably yield the most. I went with copper, and galvanized sheet cause the store near my house sells it. I think you could probably find some carbon and magnesium on the net in sheet form. That new water cell from Japan uses carbon and mag sheets. They are selling these AA sized batterys which can yield in the 500mA range.
@Hans, I will test that and see what happens. I read over stubblefields patent again, and what I was getting is that he used a voltaic coupler to increase the power, or thats what I'm interpreting it as. I tried hooking a quick voltaic stack of copper and galavanized sheet in this config shown here, and it killed the mA, and the voltage increased 2 fold from about .8v to 1.7v, and ac volts were 3.1. I also read that stubblefield used iron wire with copper wire, and states that the copper creates a magnetic field, where you can add a additional coil to ride up against this field.
Stubblefields patent.
http://www.google.com/patents?id=Q19NAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA4&dq=600457#PPA4,M1
From the patent, it seems he used copper wire, copper coils, iron wire, iron rod, water and soil.
@Bill, good job, seems like it can only get better. You have a nice area to do these experiments, as I have either grass or weeds to get through. Did you try putting the electrodes near trees? I read somewhere stubblefield used his setup near a tree, and others have said they gain power when closer to trees. I still trying to understand what stubblefield did to increase power more than a normal cell. As Bruce stated, these cells don't act like normal batteries, which is interesting.
Quote from: Pirate88179 on January 09, 2008, 09:11:27 PM
@ Bruce:
Great job! I did, as you have done by tieing in your electrodes which yields better mA. I believe this is a case for the increased surface area = more ma. My "coil" arrangement most likely did nothing more than in crease surface area.
(Snip)
Thank you Bill. But..... I am not yet sure we have proved it is surface area. ;) Let me explain my reasoning. I took all of the negative electrodes and placed them together. Hardly any increase at all. I spread them out a few inches, and still not much increase over baseline, of mA's. I continued to increase the distance for each one until I found the sweet spot for each.
I think coming up with a cell/coil/rod that gives us max amps. Then run this east to west on the neutral side. Then experiment with carbon combinations, and run this east west for max Voltage. Just my initial thinking.
I also think we need to find out if the AC volts you are picking up are real. Using an inverter from Radio shack and see if your DC volts increase when measuring the output from the inverter. I am not getting any AC, but my meter is mainly for DC. AC readings of 200 v. and 500 v. only. So not very sensitive to lower ac voltage.
We are making progress, I think.
I would suggest, stripping the wire off of your coil (I know you will hate that) then rebury it. See if there is any change in ma's. If so, then we know the wire coil is having some effect. If not, strip another piece, until you see a change. This way you will know which part (or all) of your coil is the reason for the increased ma's.
This is a pain, but we do not want to jump to any conclusions on anything, just yet. IMHO.
Cheers,
Bruce
@ Bruce:
Yes, wow, that would be a pain. It took me like 4 hours to wind it in that configuration. but, possibly I have already tested what you have asked. Earlier, I had tied the 2 zinc spikes together with the 3 mag blocks and got a decent mA reading. (posted earlier) the only difference as I see it is the copper windings now added, and the fact that all of the above are burried in the same hole. Not a perfect control but still relevant I think. I think an easier test would be to buy antoher , or 2 zinc spikes and wind one with copper wire (very easy to do in that configuration) and test it against a bare zinc spike. What are your thoughts on this? Every time I add more surface area by tying the +'s together and the -'s I get a decent increase in ma. Freezer's design with the sheets is the way to go I think. I mean, if you look back at what I started with and what I get now, that is good progress but, not the progress we need. I still want to learn how to wind a bifilar coil using copper and steel wire to see what happens.
@ Freezer:
My garden is about 10 feet from a tree and the roots are everywhere in the ground of the garden. I can't (not allowed) to dig near the tree as I am a renter here. Also, the gardener would run over my wires with the lawnmower. I like the sheet idea of mag. and carbon. Let's all look to see what we can find out there. both are easily machinable with hand tools so, no problem there. I do have to caution people about drilling magnesium. I took a handful of my shavings and hit them with a spark....poof...5,000 degrees F!!! The blocks are safe, the shavings are not. And yes, I also found these do NOT work like regular batteries. I found that out when attempting to hook into series. (The standard way)
@ Hans:
Hey, I think I may have finally found a way to test your idea of the underground pipe system. Here, where I live, the water pipes are the ground for the home electrical boxes. So, I have an outlet inside my front door which is only about 10 feet from my experimental garden. I can make a pin to fit into the "ground" part of the outlet and wire that to the cell outside and see what happens. Of course, if I get great results and make a video on youtube, when people see a wire coming out of an outlet they will think I am a fraud. Ha ha. Anyway, I will run this test soon and post. It was too good an idea to give up on.
Bill
Bill,
QuoteThe blocks are safe, the shavings are not. And yes, I also found these do NOT work like regular batteries. I found that out when attempting to hook into series. (The standard way)
What's that? What happened? carbon -mg- c -mg didn't act like series? What DID you get from that?
jeanna
@ Jeanna:
0! That's what I got every time I attempted what I believe to be series. I took it to be a short. That is what I thought you were attempting to avoid by using your pots as a seperator of sorts.
Here is a tip for you. I believe you said you were using 1/4" rods (carbon) right? what I did was to get a broom handle and cut it off. This was the same 1" dia. as my rods. I used that to pound down into the ground and then, instaled my rods. Then, I dumped some water over the instaled rods to help the soil decompress from the broom handle. (real high tech here) you could find some 1/4" steel rod or something and do the same. Just try not to go deeper with the steel than you need for your carbon. Then, pour water over it to help it "seal" to the earth. Thought this might help a little. better to hit rocks with the steel instead of the carbon. I believe we are on the verge of a giant leap in our little battery experiments. I think i have gone as far as I can go with my setup so, I am l looking into a "Freezer" style plate configuration next.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on January 10, 2008, 12:21:56 AM
@ Jeanna:
0! That's what I got every time I attempted what I believe to be series. I took it to be a short. That is what I thought you were attempting to avoid by using your pots as a seperator of sorts.
Here is a tip for you. I believe you said you were using 1/4" rods (carbon) right? what I did was to get a broom handle and cut it off. This was the same 1" dia. as my rods. I used that to pound down into the ground and then, instaled my rods. Then, I dumped some water over the instaled rods to help the soil decompress from the broom handle. (real high tech here) you could find some 1/4" steel rod or something and do the same. Just try not to go deeper with the steel than you need for your carbon. Then, pour water over it to help it "seal" to the earth. Thought this might help a little. better to hit rocks with the steel instead of the carbon. I believe we are on the verge of a giant leap in our little battery experiments. I think i have gone as far as I can go with my setup so, I am l looking into a "Freezer" style plate configuration next.
Bill
Thanks I will try your broomstick Idea. These rocks are something else.
I guess I thought you got 0 in series but not in the earth. I have no excuse. I was probably looking at my led being powered by a piece of Al foil and a carbon pencil in some washing soda. I must have gotten carried away with some indoor success. nevermind
My cement pots are still charging a bit so I don't want to give up on this yet.It took about 5 days the last time I moved them. I am thinking I could make them deep and put 2 electrodes in each and maybe not need to use the whole back yard to do the battery.
The hardest thing for me now is the connections. The carbon pencil just doesn't want to keep the solder. I may need to tear apart the carbon rods to make 4 cells. They aren't giving me as much voltage as the other things. I washed them after etching off the copper, Iron Chloride - maybe there is a little still on there. maybe I need to scrub them.
jeanna
Jeanna:
Maybe try something a little closer to the diameter of your carbon rods for the "probe" to make your holes. Also, cement is very porous, as you know, so I would also try the water treatment once planted to help them get better connected to the surroundings. I have always done this. Once it dries out a little, the results go up and appear to continue to do so.
P.S. I sent you a video.
Bill
Morning Bill,
I am in definite agreement on testing a Freezer type cell, made of magnesium and Carbon. I am still awaiting my own magnesium blocks. When they come in, I will put them into my East West neutral line, and cut 12" off of my carbon and place that on the Positive line, and see if I get a bump in voltage. I also want to replace my 12" spikes with smaller, thinner diameter and see if the ma's are affected.
So we need to find some thin sheet carbon and magnesium. Hmmmm..... I wonder how tough that will be.
Cheers,
Bruce
@ All
Alright i dont even have dry ground and im goin out to build this thing today
http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2007/11/make_a_joule_thief_weeken_1.html (http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2007/11/make_a_joule_thief_weeken_1.html) If you guys have the money for it , no more than 5 bucks this is a real easy joule thief and a tutorial video ... Thanks to all for your continued efforts and i only wish i could be out there with ya.
Joe
Quote from: btentzer on January 10, 2008, 08:43:50 AM
Morning Bill,
I am in definite agreement on testing a Freezer type cell, made of magnesium and Carbon. I am still awaiting my own magnesium blocks. When they come in, I will put them into my East West neutral line, and cut 12" off of my carbon and place that on the Positive line, and see if I get a bump in voltage. I also want to replace my 12" spikes with smaller, thinner diameter and see if the ma's are affected.
So we need to find some thin sheet carbon and magnesium. Hmmmm..... I wonder how tough that will be.
Cheers,
Bruce
I could be way off here but do you think hardwood ashes ... or lots of paper ashes with a little moisture in a hole... I guess thats not technically carbon but maybe a cheap alternative.
also i found this hunting http://www.acp-composites.com/acp-gp.htm (http://www.acp-composites.com/acp-gp.htm)
@ Everyone,
Bill is telling me that the wetness is significant. Others elsewhere have also mentioned that dryness does not make it worse but seems to make it better. I am wondering if the constant rain and very wet soil now are conspiring to make the low voltage and non existent amperage I see.
Is anyone else noticing the effect of wetness on their batteries?
(This is for information, it won't matter in my mountain where it is very dry.)
thank you
jeanna
Quote from: Localjoe on January 10, 2008, 02:12:15 PM
I could be way off here but do you think hardwood ashes ... or lots of paper ashes with a little moisture in a hole... I guess thats not technically carbon but maybe a cheap alternative.
Oh Joe,
I am so glad to hear you're going to do some battery. " snow-battery?" experiments.
Your idea brought up a I thought have been rolling around.
The very first exercise in my first electronics book was th make a measured line and rub a pencil darkly and thickly over the line. This was then used as a demonstration for resistance. I was to measure the resistance for 1 inch 2 inches... of this thick black line. This was a true resistor.
Carbon is already used in the battery industry, so, perhaps this question is already well answered, but I find it curious that we are measuring currents that are supposedly going from South to North through a whole lot of resistance in the soil. And with a strong resistor actually being the northerly electrode. So, the resistance begins right away with the southerly electrode and continues to the point where it meets the ultimate resistor, which is carbon. I am thinking. Is this, or how is this a battery?
(Indeed the moisture thing probably relates to the resistance of the dryness of the soil.)
Always pushing my boundaries,
jeanna
ps if you mix ashes with water you get KOH along with other things. It is good for making soap (and good to know since obtaining that soap making chemical is hard to get nowadays). I think it will probably add a lot of electrolite to the immediate area of the soil, It is worth a try, Joe - you probably have a good supply about now ;D. I would wonder how long it would last. but in any case it would probably add to any galvanic reaction we are seeing. I would love to know your result if you try it, Joe.
jeanna
I have been watching this thread for some time and have a 1/2 cents worth of comment.
You are trying to intercept some current flowing in the earth? Hopefully not trying to make an earth battery as a Lemon or Potato will work better. Okay you are looking to capture some current in the earth so how would one go about it?
Electrode type should not be an issue (if you are capturing and not creating) a current. So maybe forget the electrode type problem. Except for DC do not all currents have frequency? Indeed they do, and that would present the concept of wavelength (how far to space the electrodes). But is not the earth somewhat like the human body?, a mass of currents flowing in all directions from synapse to synapse? Yes indeed you can place a voltmeter (sensitive) across any two area's of the body and measure a current, but it is only a very small current as each individual current flows in a different direction and many cancel, yes some add.
So what am I saying? Why not forget the DC concept, look only into varying currents. Now we still have the wavelength issue, but what about building a coil with a variable capacitor and placing it in the earth on a plastic pipe handle so it can be rotated. This would allow the coil to be turned and pickup the best of the tuned earths variable waves.
Look at it this way, if a home has a connection to the grid, currents flow from the home out in all directions to find the least resistance path back to the generator. They mix with other currents, add and subtract, often cancel, but spots are found where they are very large. Now you pay for current flowing into your home thought the meter, used in the devices you use, and out through a ground (neutral) connection. Once past the meter what you pick up is free :-). So from every home for example flows free energy, just waiting to be tapped with the right coil and capacitor.
A little thought gives an answer here. Use what you have, forget the Lemon and Potato, if you pull 200amp through your home, you expel 200amp, where?
Quote from: RStiffler on January 10, 2008, 03:09:13 PM
Electrode type should not be an issue (if you are capturing and not creating) a current.
So what am I saying? Why not forget the DC concept, look only into varying currents. Now we still have the wavelength issue, but what about building a coil with a variable capacitor and placing it in the earth on a plastic pipe handle so it can be rotated. This would allow the coil to be turned and pickup the best of the tuned earths variable waves.
A little thought gives an answer here. Use what you have, forget the Lemon and Potato, if you pull 200amp through your home, you expel 200amp, where?
RStiffler,
Would you like to join us?
Your 1/2 c makes it sound as though you already have the answer and you are guiding your students to learn it for themselves. While I respect that as a way to teach, I don't think it has a place here. If you with your good sounding ideas would like to join in the experiments I am sure we would all appreciate your sharing your results and thoughts and 2c for that matter.
jeanna
G'day all'
Have a look at this:
GROUNDWAVE RADIO
The late part of the Nineteenth Century was a rich and productive time for the empirical researchers, those who explored the deep mysteries of ground conduction radio. Such investigation produced a new world of possibilities in the Wireless Arts. Experimenters found distinctive differences when varieties of geometric shapes were simply buried, a series of discoveries having no satisfactory conventional explanation. A great many highly specialized ground "antennas" were developed and patented during this time period, a technology which provoked both disbelief and criticism on numerous counts.
The very first vocal radio broadcast was engaged by Nathan B. Stubblefield (1872). Mr. Stubblefield employed special "earth cells" and long iron rods to transmit strong vocal signals "with great clarity". These signals traversed a mile or more of ground, a coordinated conduction wireless system providing telephone service for a hardworking farm community. The Stubblefield Radio Method represents an essential technological mystery. His "earth cells" never wore out, never produced heat in their telephonic components, and provided "signal ready" power at any given instant of the day. Being neither activated or assisted by additional battery power, the system was fully operational around the clock.
Later critics attempted the reduction of the Stubblefield Radio System to mere "subsoil conduction" mode of transmission, but remain completely unable to reproduce the performance to this day. Mr. Stubblefield repeatedly stated confidence in the fact that his Radio System was performing an act of modulation, not a transmission of signal power. The preexisting "electrical waves in the earth", he firmly stated, were the real energy carriers for his Wireless Telephone Exchange. The special "earth cells" were connective terminals, not power antennas; a means by which direct connection with the geomantic energy stratum was obtained.[/b]
For the full article:
http://www.lauralee.com/antenna2.htm
Hans von Lieven
@ Rstiffler, I wondered in the beginning to whether the current from the ground was just simply the power from the home ground lines. I have no idea how to capture this as far as the electronic circuits. We need guys like you to show us, or give some direction and maybe we can figure it out. I don't speak for all here, but my goal was to create any usable power that doesn't depend on man-made current, basically I wanted a power source which would work during power outages or any other type of emergencies. Even if its just to slowly charge a battery for lighting. I liked the water cell since water will always be available pretty much anywhere you go, and is free. As Bill has said, it would be great to couple your device with a natural power source.
With the coil/variable capacitor, will that be to capture energy from ground lines from homes? Can currents from the earth alone not be amplified in some way through circuitry?
@hans, I think you are on the right track, as I believe there was no or very slow breakdown of stubblefields battery which was the beauty of it. In his patent it describes this a bit.
@ Freezer:
I agree with you except, just remember, there were no power companies in the area at the time of Stubblefield's successes so he must have figured out something else. That is what I am looking for. I have not attempted his coil setups as of yet as I wanted to just get enough free electricity from the earth to light several leds which I have done. I will now be shifting gears a bit. I disagree with Dr. Stiffler that this is just the same as a lemon battery. Do lemon batteries produce amps? Can they light and heat houses and run a city telephone system? This is what Stubblefield has done. I very much agree that Dr. Stiffler has much expertise and knowledge that would help us here. We might already be getting close to making enough power to run his circuit. That would be something to see.
@ Hans:
After reading your post I now have to re-think my ideas. I was thinking of these cells as "antennas" of sorts but, this clearly says that is not the case. More learning on my part to do. Thank you for posting that and putting me back on the right road.
Bill
I agree Bill, as I saw that video posted of the earth cell being done out in the middle of nowhere and it worked just as well.
Woa....guys! A lot of assumptions. This is a well known item, called Telluric Current. I am not interested in taking current from the house. If I wanted to do that, I have outlets. ;D
I tried this far from anything, in a field, and you still get readings, North and South. I live far from any neighbors and further from any town. So it is not that. ;)
Also, the type of metal is indeed important. You can not tell me that carbon spaced 10 feet away from zinc is caused by galvanic interaction. No way, no how.
Also, beyond that, if true, then any old direction would work, not North and South. And South would not ALWAYS be negative and North positive, as it is now.
The Telluric Current is DC according to the scientific papers I have read. It is well known. It is untapped.
@ All
I cut a foot of carbon from my long pipe, and placed it on the same line as the neutral zinc line running east west. NO increase in ma's at all. I then tried Copper pipe in line with my neutral zinc and the ma's went down by 1/2.
I placed the carbon in series with my other carbon and got a small bump in voltage, now up to .875 volts @ .248 ma's. Waiting on the magnesium. I think that magnesium plates and carbon plates is the way to go.
@ Dr. Shiffler
"Now we still have the wavelength issue, but what about building a coil with a variable capacitor and placing it in the earth on a plastic pipe handle so it can be rotated. This would allow the coil to be turned and pickup the best of the tuned earths variable waves."
This is a good experiment to be tried. What type of coil, made from what. On an air core? Iron core? Any ideas would be helpful. Thank you.
@ Jeanna
Carbon is typical for a positive electrode.
http://electrochem.cwru.edu/ed/encycl/art-c01-carbon.htm
Cheers,
Bruce
Quote from: btentzer on January 10, 2008, 07:40:51 PM
Woa....guys! A lot of assumptions. This is a well known item, called Telluric Current. I am not interested in taking current from the house. If I wanted to do that, I have outlets. ;D
I tried this far from anything, in a field, and you still get readings, North and South. I live far from any neighbors and further from any town. So it is not that. ;)
Also, the type of metal is indeed important. You can not tell me that carbon spaced 10 feet away from zinc is caused by galvanic interaction. No way, no how.
Also, beyond that, if true, then any old direction would work, not North and South. And South would not ALWAYS be negative and North positive, as it is now.
The Telluric Current is DC according to the scientific papers I have read. It is well known. It is untapped.
@ All
I cut a foot of carbon from my long pipe, and placed it on the same line as the neutral zinc line running east west. NO increase in ma's at all. I then tried Copper pipe in line with my neutral zinc and the ma's went down by 1/2.
I placed the carbon in series with my other carbon and got a small bump in voltage, now up to .875 volts @ .248 ma's. Waiting on the magnesium. I think that magnesium plates and carbon plates is the way to go.
@ Dr. Shiffler
"Now we still have the wavelength issue, but what about building a coil with a variable capacitor and placing it in the earth on a plastic pipe handle so it can be rotated. This would allow the coil to be turned and pickup the best of the tuned earths variable waves."
This is a good experiment to be tried. What type of coil, made from what. On an air core? Iron core? Any ideas would be helpful. Thank you.
@ Jeanna
Carbon is typical for a positive electrode.
http://electrochem.cwru.edu/ed/encycl/art-c01-carbon.htm
Cheers,
Bruce
Hi all!
I signed up hoping Dr. Stiffler signs on? "Please"
The normal earth currents are of such wave length that I am under the impression that the electrodes would have to be 10's of km apart?
When I was a kid I ran a single transistor radio off two rebars in the ground so I know something is there but maybe not much unless you tap it properly. If it is okay with the group and the Dr joins in I would like to join in?
@onhold
Theres always room for more.. but i hope i understand you right when you say you'd like to join us not just because another member has commented... that might freak him out a bit and he seems to be a nice guy
I'd be interested in trying this idea of coils in the ground. We have power outages at least once a day here so it would be easy to verify if the output current was affected or not. Would it just be a standard coil set to resonate at 60Hz?
Quote from: btentzer on January 10, 2008, 07:40:51 PM
Also, beyond that, if true, then any old direction would work, not North and South. And South would not ALWAYS be negative and North positive, as it is now.
The Telluric Current is DC according to the scientific papers I have read. It is well known. It is untapped.
right!
@ Jeanna
Carbon is typical for a positive electrode.
http://electrochem.cwru.edu/ed/encycl/art-c01-carbon.htm
Cheers,
Bruce
Thank you, Bruce. That is a long and complete article. Lots to think about. It also explained about these supercaps.
jeanna
@ Bruce:
I agree 100% about telluric currents and it NOT being pure galvanic. I won't go into the details as I have posted them many times earlier, but the reasons you mentioned were right on in my opinion. I have not read the link posted but will here shortly.
I think we are headed toward coil configurations next as Stubblefiled had done. I just need to understand a little more about what he might have been doing. His museum is only about 2 hours from here and I have been saying that I am going to go and have not yet done that. I will.
I still say that when your magnesium gets there, it will be a whole new ball game for you. How much power does it take to run a tpu? Does it depend on amps alone or volts as well? I doubt that I have enough here yet to run one, BUT, I will. (optomistic thinking)
I have to say this, I tried not to but, to all those that think this is just galvanic action, if you take 2 SIMILAR metals and put them in an electrolite (salt water, vinegar, ect.) I don't believe you will get anything. People have done that here in the earth, 2 copper pipes and have obtained readings. N/S increases the readings. There is more to this than we know.
I will leave it at that.
Bill
Finally I was able to post this picture after trying all day. I had posted this photograph before but this one has a better resolution and you can see here clearly that Stubblefield used two of his "spikes" to work his device.This requires a major rethink of the modus operandi
Talk to you tomorrow, it is getting late.
Hans von Lieven
Does anyone know what Stubblefield had on the top of the rods in the picture? Who was he supposed to be receiving messages from?
Also note that this set up was used to receive sound waves and it is said to contain electrical currents from the earth but yet they are used for both with nothing added but a receiver and a round piece on the top of the rods that the wire looks to be attached to.
This confirms my theory of electricity. The rods in the pictures are nothing more then antennas that are being used to collect sound waves. I would like to see the receiver he used and I would bet that it is nothing more then a horn style speaker.
Where is the museum located?
John Kanzius device proves my theory as well by the way it lights up a florescent bulb. We need to stop trying to find electricity and focus on ways to collect frequency?s. Once we find a way to attract mass amounts of frequency?s, that?s when we will get usable amounts of electricity.
Night life... the signal is coming from the base station... please continue collecting frequencies in your head and not here until you have some results remember this isn't the thread for your theories.. and it does de rail it from real members sometimes please do not clutter this thread. Thanks again
Joe
So hans looking at the pic i say it would be safe to say that with the two inserts its just a path in and out from the mic/ receiver. Now if im not mistaken this system was full duplex as explained.. To folks who don't know the term full duplex as opposed to half duplex would mean that both parties can talk at the same time and hear each other at the same time. Vs one party listening and then speaking. Now im curious to the lc calculations he used to determine the coil sizes on the two rods vs the base station output ... Secondly with two inductors ... I bet there are 2 different size coils for each "mobile unit" smaller is the in to one side of the mic and a larger coil on the other side .. i could be wrong but what else would the purpose be for the different sizes on those spikes... The patents describes a square wire/coil around the perimeter of your service area and apparently dropping these rods in within that area and connecting to the mic/receiver is the jist of it.
G'day Joe and all.
The system you are describing is a patent that Stubblefield patented after he had lost the rights to the system you see displayed here.
Apparently he signed over the rights to the original system to a company in return for stock. The company was involved in a share swindle and Stubblefield wound up with nothing. He then tried to recover his losses by patenting a new system which never took off.
The two systems have nothing to do with each other.
Incidentally, those spikes you see in the photo reach deep into the ground. They had to drill holes for them before they could be inserted according to some new information I just received.
I have to re-think the entire system in light of these new revelations. I wish someone could gain access to Stubblefield's papers. There is a whole trunk full of this stuff In the university archives. There is also some museum there where they keep stuff. I wish someone would have a look. A bit far to go from Australia. >:(
Hans von Lieven
Hmm Hans,
looks like a job for a private-I to me!
;D
jeanna
Hans:
I was doing some surfing a while back and remember reading an article (which I will try to relocate) that said Stubblefield's son, the one in all the pictures with him, was still alive and living in TN. This article was about 5 years old but, I will see if I can locate him. Would that not be interesting to speak to his son? He could possibly answer many questions, if he is alive and willing to do so that is. I will look into this again.
Bill
I am ready to put away these simple battery parts. I think by insisting on getting more by putting the parts in series is the wrong approach. By staying in that mode I am thinking in galvanic-think even though I am sure we are seeing something else.
Personally I think the thing I called a beer can which is between the sphere and the inverted hemisphere is a wound thing. I bet there are a lot of turns too. Any ides anyone?
I actually think it is time to begin working with oscillations. The trouble is I could wind coils but I don't know where to connect the ends.
I think I might try to make a copy of the Meyers patent as drawn by Hans, and there are enough horses around here I can probably get a couple of horseshoes to magnitize with some neos etc. but I still don't know what I'd be seeing if I see it.
I will see if I can find out something.
jeanna
goodness, I hope this site stabilizes!
Stephan- Keep up the good work!!
Quote from: jeanna on January 11, 2008, 05:49:00 PM
looks like a job for a private-I to me!
;D
jeanna
@All,
Could we help Bill by covering some expenses (like gas, lunch, etc.. ) when he decides to take a trip to museum?
I am ready to chip in. How I don't know. Pay-Pal account?
George
Localjoe, I replied to a comment that was posted by another member so there for it was not off topic. I asked a couple valuable questions in regards to the comment and picture left by another member that did in fact have a impact on this threads topic. I would appreciate if you would allow those questions to be answered without you getting upset. I have not been posting much and I only asked those questions because they are of interest to me.
"please continue collecting frequencies in your head and not here until you have some results remember this isn't the thread for your theories."
Please reread what I quoted you to have said to me and also please note how I disrespectful it sounds. I hope it was not your intention to disrespect me and if it was please know that I am not one to take kindly to that type of wording.
Well as far as im concerned if you want to post here, just leave your theories on frequency out of it. None of us agree, and its obvious you dont grasp the concept of lc circuits and that we might tune our circuit to bring in a resonate frequency but its not some random signal collector and its not gonna be turned into a joke because you post dribble. either learn the basics were working with or stop posting in this thread please. If this sounds harsh for a second time sorry but this next sentence is utter nonsense .
"We need to stop trying to find electricity and focus on ways to collect frequency?s. Once we find a way to attract mass amounts of frequency?s, that?s when we will get usable amounts of electricity."
Please do not direct the thread to do things as you have no clue to what were doing. I would hate it if some new member joined found this topic read your reply and thought we were stupid and passed right by it...And nightlife... im a network tech by trade ... dont test me.. No one else on this thread through all its pages has said the nonsense you have.... thats why im acting this way about it...
Joe
@ All
Few updates on my end
If anyone has endavoured the joule thief that i posted earlier in the thread i have some results from it..
After building it with a small toroid and a 2n3904 transistor and a 1k resistor this little thing is awesome.. ive had it powering 2 3v led's all of yesterdays afternoon and through the night and well its noon here now... so almost 24 hrs solid on a dead aa battery. Starting voltage .6v now its down to .5 v the current draw seemed to be somewheres around 25 to 30 ma when i put the amp meter between the battery + and the center coil wind.. Now something cool happened when i stuck a neo magnet on the toroid at the top of it, it made the led's a little brighter... Why i have no clue but it was cool and the effect is still lasting. Anyways i think this little oscillatory circuit is worth everyones time to try out.
Joe
@ georgemay:
Thank you for your thought of helping me to get to the museum. My father is very ill at the moment and it does not look good. I will get to the museum eventually, I promise. Yes, money is tight like it is for a lot of folks at the moment. But, while I greatly appreciate your thoughts in this area, just know that I have always done what I said I would do, which anyone can look back over the many posts here and see. Please do not misunderstand what I am saying here. Prior to my father's illness, if I had a government grant I would have been there already. Yes, finances are a problem but now, not the biggest problem. Please accept my gratitude for your suggestion. I really appreciate it.
Bill
snip<
Anyways i think this little oscillatory circuit is worth everyones time to try out. >
wouldn't this be something like frequencies.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but will a DC voltage run a transformer? I think it is the sine wave of AC that causes it to either step up or down according to the way it's wound.
Could it be that Stubblefield was using the AC portion of the voltage, that we've all reported, in his coil.
@sid
Pulsed dc as in tesla style transformers (impulse driven) is a way of transforming electricity, as well as buck or boost transformers in an ac sense.. >>> The readings you referring to were used as a carrier and modulated by the earphone or mic depending on which way.. kinda like and audio impedance transformer.. Hense the inductance of the coils on the beer cans would be specific to the mic/earphone he was using and voltage of the carrier expected. This is concerning his wireless phone system.
As far as the battery its a whole different ballgame....
The initial bi-metal couple of the copper and iron wires are bifilar and wrapped around a carriage bolt. Bare iron and insulated copper... The Patent states at this point all that is needed is water to activate the voltaic action... the third coil wound outside all the rest considered the secondary is where the real power can come from with one stipulation.. i found this note towards the end of the patent
Two of the leads from the internal bi metal coil have to be shorted to allow for the cell to be self sustaining.
I think that the impulse that people refer to charging the cell would be given on these windings to saturate the core initially and then when you short the wires theres a little flux to play with/ energy stored in the bolt.
Joe
Apoliges for the links,
http://patimg1.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid=00155209&homeurl=http%3A%2F%2Fpatft.uspto.gov%2Fnetacgi%2Fnph-Parser%3FSect1%3DPTO1%2526Sect2%3DHITOFF%2526d%3DPALL%2526p%3D1%2526u%3D%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25252Fsrchnum.htm%2526r%3D1%2526f%3DG%2526l%3D50%2526s1%3D0155209.PN.%2526OS%3DPN%2F0155209%2526RS%3DPN%2F0155209&PageNum=&Rtype=&SectionNum=&idkey=NONE&Input=View+first+page
http://patimg1.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid=00329724&homeurl=http%3A%2F%2Fpatft.uspto.gov%2Fnetacgi%2Fnph-Parser%3FSect1%3DPTO1%2526Sect2%3DHITOFF%2526d%3DPALL%2526p%3D1%2526u%3D%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25252Fsrchnum.htm%2526r%3D1%2526f%3DG%2526l%3D50%2526s1%3D0329724.PN.%2526OS%3DPN%2F0329724%2526RS%3DPN%2F0329724&PageNum=&Rtype=&SectionNum=&idkey=NONE&Input=View+first+page
http://patimg2.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid=00160152&homeurl=http%3A%2F%2Fpatft.uspto.gov%2Fnetacgi%2Fnph-Parser%3FSect1%3DPTO1%2526Sect2%3DHITOFF%2526d%3DPALL%2526p%3D1%2526u%3D%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25252Fsrchnum.htm%2526r%3D1%2526f%3DG%2526l%3D50%2526s1%3D0160152.PN.%2526OS%3DPN%2F0160152%2526RS%3DPN%2F0160152&PageNum=&Rtype=&SectionNum=&idkey=NONE&Input=View+first+page
http://patimg2.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid=00600457&homeurl=http%3A%2F%2Fpatft.uspto.gov%2Fnetacgi%2Fnph-Parser%3FSect1%3DPTO1%2526Sect2%3DHITOFF%2526d%3DPALL%2526p%3D1%2526u%3D%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25252Fsrchnum.htm%2526r%3D1%2526f%3DG%2526l%3D50%2526s1%3D0600457.PN.%2526OS%3DPN%2F0600457%2526RS%3DPN%2F0600457&PageNum=&Rtype=&SectionNum=&idkey=NONE&Input=View+first+page
Den
Thanks for the links cub3 .
Kind regards Ian
Hey folks,
this is the small circuit im working with if any questions please ask ;D
Joe
Quote from: Localjoe on January 13, 2008, 01:50:52 PM
So what does this circuit do? Recirculate the power back into the loop?
I found this simple circuit and might try this as well. I'm gonna see if I can make the second one on this page, what do you think?
Seems like this shouldn't work, I mean if someone could tap energy from the air...Hans might know if this is something worth trying.
http://keelynet.com/energy/prentice.htm
I found an interesting quote on the web - I'm not religious but its interesting.
"And the Lord God formed Adam out of the soil of the earth, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being."
Genesis 2:7.
G'day Joe,
Have a look at the "rectifier and enhancer" in the Meyers circuit. Take your Youle thief, take out the resistor and use a diode instead of the transistor, put four of them together as a bridge and there it is. Same idea, bifilar coil and all. Fascinating.
Hans von Lieven
Good call hans i just bought a 50 pack of low loss 1n914 diodes think i should use those or the rectfing ones like the 1n4001?
Joe
Thanks Freezer for the link.
A bit or research on Frank Wyatt Prentice turned up some amazing stuff. He was a Canadian electrical engineer who had his own company and had a number of patents to his credit. He was no dreamer.
About the circuit in the patent I found the following comment:
Frank Wyatt Prentice was granted Canadian Patent No. 253,765 that detailed his invention, which lighted fifty sixty-watt carbon lamps with an input of only five hundred watts. His invention utilized a spark gap driven high frequency tuned resonant system.
Worth studying in detail.
Hans von Lieven
Hi everyone,
I made 2 of those last week. Funny, I don't get the ability to use it to light a led on .8vdc but I can run 2 led's on 1.3 vdc which by itself won't run even one. I like it. And the little vid with the link helps too. ;)
I checked on my earth battery today.
C4 rods - to Cu pipe - to mg 1.39vdc,2.1vac
I still get the very best results with the carbon granules.
That reading was C granules - mg brick 1.63 VDC; 2.6VAC . C granules in cement pot
There is something going on with these cement pots. as I have mentioned, they seem to charge up over time. I have 3 of them aligned E-W because that is giving me the best reading. The first 2 give me a good multiplication almost a true series effect, but the third is low and brings the whole series down; BUT it is coming up. It has been very stormy lately so I can't be regular with my tests but this last pot is getting charged more with time, but slower than the other 2. odd.
I made a rough try at a coiled connection. got zero. nothing was touching the ground but 0.00.
Here is what I did. I perfected the east west heading for the day. I even used a trowel to make a nice groove in the soil. then I unwound but kept the spiral of some insulated hook up wire - about 20 feet and connected it to the mg brick on the west, and on the east to a 3 ft piece of copper (1/4 inch diam) that I had spiraled around the broomstick to look like one of those that Mr. Stubblefield had twirling out of the ground. EESH not even galvanic! and nothing (I mean none of the leads) was touching the ground. The whole thing was roughly 8 feet long.
It is sunny and warmish. Maybe I will think of something else to try later.
jeanna
So jenna you built that joule thief and it wont light the led's off of 1.6 v dc your reading on your earth battery? You might need to hook it to a cap in parallel with your earth electrodes for it to build a little current but it should work. Tell me how it goes and if you used the same transistor ;D
Joe
Quote from: Localjoe on January 13, 2008, 03:07:34 PM
So jenna you built that joule thief and it wont light the led's off of 1.6 v dc your reading on your earth battery? You might need to hook it to a cap in parallel with your earth electrodes for it to build a little current but it should work. Tell me how it goes and if you used the same transistor ;D
Joe
I think you are right, Joe,
Trouble is that the good reading comes from a damp heap of carbon from a used filter and the magnesium connection is there and solid but hard to get even a probe onto. So, it is just logistics, soon, but not yet. As soon as I get the caps near it the connectors wobble out of place.
I will take suggestions.
I just am not getting the volts on the carbon rods that have a nice connector spot. That is too bad. I thought the carbon rods soldered together would make things easier.
Do you mean the joule thief AND the cap wired in parallel to the led that is wired to the transistor? hmm didn't think of that.
jeanna
the transistor is from Radio shack MPS3904 The h
fe is 100.
Here is something you all may want to try. I found that flat metal works better then the round metal for the post. Out of 15 cups I used, I got almost 4 more volts using frat metal insted of round metal.
@ Jenna
i mean from the electrodes in the ground to a super cap or other cap and off those leads to where the input from the battery would normally go on the circuit. Hope that helps
Joe
Quote from: nightlife on January 13, 2008, 03:49:00 PM
Here is something you all may want to try. I found that flat metal works better then the round metal for the post. Out of 15 cups I used, I got almost 4 more volts using frat metal insted of round metal.
4 volts!
wow
How did you set this up?
15 cups? do you mean you are doing a cement pot type of thing?
I have a couple of flat pieces of steel I could try. I have an Aluminum can I could fill with earth and try. 4 volts!
jeanna
jeanna, that is was the difference I got from using water in cups. It may help with what you all are doing using the earth.
Quote from: Localjoe on January 13, 2008, 03:51:34 PM
@ Jenna
i mean from the electrodes in the ground to a super cap or other cap and off those leads to where the input from the battery would normally go on the circuit. Hope that helps
Joe
Yup. It does.
I may want to solder a new cap arrangement.
thanks Joe,
jeanna
OK a new little report.
Still no light though. :'(
I changed the fuse in my voltmeter. (thanks, Freezer)
Cu pipe to mg block
1.35vdc, 2.3 vac, 0.038A
C4 rods to mg block
1.27 vdc, 1.8 vac, 0.016A
C filter granules to mg block
1.4 vdc, -.8 vac 0.035A
I jabbed the + end of the jule thief mit light into the carbon granules and clipped the other side to the clip that goes to the mag block. NOPE.
It's 2PM here now, (10 PM in Germany) I still have another hour. and it is sunny :D any things I forgot?
jeanna
We need to have bill try this he's the only one with enough current to use this probably. Good work jenna, ps did you have the cap in line with your electrodes powering the thief?
Joe
Quote from: Localjoe on January 13, 2008, 05:17:32 PM
We need to have bill try this he's the only one with enough current to use this probably. Good work jenna, ps did you have the cap in line with your electrodes powering the thief?
Joe
no,
my supercaps are all soldered to other things and I KNOW they take too much for this. I will need to solder up a cap with a resistor I think if I want to use it this way, don't I? I think it would cycle too fast to be useful. so, no, I didn't. I just used the new joule thief that is soldered with a red led.
thanks
jeanna
I just bought one, maybe I will clip it up and try it while the sun is still out.
sorry all i have been on vacation.
what i meant about stubblefield and those ceramic insulators on top of his rebar metal rod is well think of a capacitor, it is to electrical plates with an insulating core, if you look at home made capacitors they have a oil or salt water mixture in a glass bottle surrounded by aluminum foil or a coil of wire, one electrode goes inside the salt water the other electrode is outside the glass jar all over the outside face of it! somehow this makes a capacitor or allows the store of an electrical charge! im sure hanz can find some materials to elabrate, time is short for me at the moment, ceramics is a common capacitor material tho, if he used that or even glass then in that setup in the picture he would have a capacitor with one of the "legs" or electrodes strait in the ground conducting or gathering some kind of current :) why he has 2 i dont know.
Quote from: mramos on January 13, 2008, 09:14:50 PM
If Bill can light the LED from the ground he does not need the joule thief.
I found also that flat metal had more voltage a couple weeks ago. But the problem here is lack of current.
All should do what Bill is doing as that is the only one that has 10+ milliamps out at 1.5+ volts.
It is true, Bill does not need the joule thief.
I am sure we would all like to do what Bill is doing.
Did you do that yet?
jeanna
Quote from: ian middleton on January 13, 2008, 05:01:14 AM
Thanks for the links cub3 .
Kind regards Ian
Hi Ian, thanks for reply,
Below 2 more, that you may be unaware of. 1st one lot's of info. please scroll (on both sites). The links of various sites will keep you busy. :)
The 2nd. has, many other, may I say idea's :-\ if you can work your way through it, there is information as well.
http://www.panaceauniversity.org/
http://www.panacea-bocaf.org/
Best regards Den
ps Dial up is a pain :-[
http://www.hbci.com/~wenonah/history/nathan-s.htm (http://www.hbci.com/~wenonah/history/nathan-s.htm)
@ All:
The above link is to some information I have not read before ab out Stubblefield. It is a long paper but really worth looking at. Below, I have copied just a few paragraphs that I believe you will find most interesting. This is the first time I have heard of his induction coil (bifilar coil) having a third coil called a "secondary". For those seeking amps, this says he was able to gather many many amps. It also said the power did not decrease over time, but increased! I was just doing some reading on the net and wanted to pass this link along. Thanks.
Bill
"Stubblefield envisioned the energy cell as a "plug", drawing out the electrical charge of the ground. The cell coils acted as a lumped conductor. Charge saturated this conductor and flowed up into it, powering any electrically connected appliance. After repeated exhumations, the copper element of these cells was found "not acted on in any perceptible degree ... even after repeated renewals".
Mr. Stubblefield described means by which such cells could be connected in series at short distances from one another. "With these, acting as electrodes ... you draw from the electrical energy of the earth a constant E.M.F. of commercial value". That phrase... "acting as electrodes..." is the heart of the Stubblefield energy cell. It is not a battery. It absorbs and flows over with the stupendous energy of the earth's charge.
Mr. Stubblefield developed a peculiar bi-metallic induction coil which, when buried, draw up sufficient electrical power to operate lamps and other appliances which he designed and tested. A great length of both cotton-insulated copper and bare iron wires were wound together in a "bifilar" arrangement on a large iron stove bolt. The windings were held side by side throughout the coil. His patent specification describes the device as a "terminal, which draws electricity out of the ground".
The induction coil, which bears his name is equipped with three coils which are wrapped around upon a heavy iron core. Bare iron wire and cotton covered copper wire are wrapped side by side, comprising a primary coil body. Each layer of this primary coil body is covered by a band of cotton insulation, bringing four wire leads to the coil terminus. Two leads of iron and two of copper are external to the coil. Commercial electrical power is obtained through these connective terminals.
In addition to this bimetallic winding, there is a third winding: the "secondary". This third coil is insulated from the primary bimetallic coil, serving as a trigger device. Presumably, a stimulating impulse shock was introduced into the tertiary coil, after which the upwelling electrical ground response brought forth powerful currents in both iron and copper coils.
Electrolytically (as a battery in acid or saltwater) the Stubblefield coil is disappointing; producing less than one volt according to those who have duplicated its construction. Stubblefield's bimetallic coil was a "plug": a receiver, which intercepts the vast and free electrical reservoir of the ground itself. His patent and subsequent company brochures define the manner in which his earth battery was to be activated.
Technically, the Stubblefield device is a modified thermocouple (a bimetal in tight surface contact) but could not supply the degree of power, which he reported. While this arrangement could develop a few milliwatts of power in appropriately hot ground spots, the thermoelectric explanation of the device cannot explain the phenomenal output reported in news reports of Stubblefield's demonstrations.
Furthermore, though the Stubblefield power receiver is wound like an induction coil, it produces a steady direct current output. This poses additional problems for the conventional engineers. Electrical induction only occurs with electrical alternations, oscillations, and impulses."
G'day Bill,
This article is not bad in some respects, lousy in others. The author had little idea what he was talking about. Have a look at that bit about a thermocouple effect, absolute nonsense. In a thermocouple the two dissimilar metals have to be in metal to metal contact, Stubblefield specifies otherwise. There is no thermocouple effect if there is electrical contact between the metals via moisture or an electrolyte.
Hans von Lieven
bill did the coil of wire around the 2 nails do 8 ma by themselfs? what did that coil configuration do by itself?
@ Hans:
I agree about the article in general and the part about the thermocouple business specifically. I worked with some various thermocouples for some IBM contracts we had. My understanding is that a thermocouple uses dissimilar metals yes, but only dissimilar in their coefficient of thermal expansion which is what causes the movement or bending action.
I was more intrigued by the mention of the "third" coil as the secondary. You have been saying this right along that for a secondary to do any good, we have to be dealing with pulses. This was also the first time I have read (that I remember) how the bifilar coils were wound. If accurate, it said that the cotton coated copper wire and the iron wire were wrapped side by side, and each layer was insulated as well. It also mentioned that the 4 wire ends you end up with are where the power is taken from. I have always wanted to know what to do with those ends and could never seem to find out. According to this article, all 4 ends stick up out of the ground for connections to a load. But, when a secondary is added, how is that connected? Or, is it just induction with no connections? I would like to attempt to build one of these one day soon.
PS
In my research to locate Bernard Stubblefield (Nathan's son) I have his last known address in Nashville, Tn
but I also read that he was 14 when helping his father in like 1910 so, I don't have much hope that he is still living. the address I have for him is as of 1970.
Bill
@ Artic Knight:
I did test the coil/zinc spike/magnesium block configuration by itself and got 0 on everything. It put out a little over 9mA for several days and....dropped to zero!!!! I have no idea why. I have not had a chance to dig it up and see what might have happened. It's probably not a good sign.
bill for reference i tested my tesla coil today, i used foam board insulation as the circular frame at the top and a wooden rod as the shaft, i wrapped about 8 inches of coil around the shaft then made 3 circles around the insulation. the whole thing looked like a giant lolipop.Ã, the only conducting material was my copper coil, i tried to use this with the aluminum rod as one pole and the tesla coil as the other no current. i tried grounding the coil and pulling some electricity from the secondary coil (a coil around the coil on the shaft) no current, i cut the top off and stuck it into the ground and got .4volt at no amps. mind you my coil is insulated.
perhaps what we need here is iron or its cusin steel?Ã, i pulled 2 miliamp off of the steel rod and aluminum rod.Ã, and coils like the steel rods.Ã, i want to try this metal rod with the ceramic top and coil around the outside but i dont have the materials. does someone else have a glass or ceramic object that might could be used like the ones in the photos?
bill why use the magnesium blocks? why not use 2 nails with coils around them like you had in wood? seems like it would work. it might be a good base to see if the magnesium is interacting with the coils and nails or not!
@ bill i think i answered that a few pages back with my explanation to sid10 you should check it out. ;D
Joe
@ Joe:
Yes, thanks, I found the post you mentioned. You said 2 of the wires from the bifilar coil have to be shorted, which I guess means joined? But which two? One from the copper and one from the iron? Or, iron wire to iron wire? Maybe we won't know any of this until we build such devices and try all variations. He said he used an iron carriage bolt for the core. Must be a pretty large bolt for the size of the coils I have seen in the pictures.
@ Artic Knight:
Those insulators, if indeed they were ceramic would have been porcelain. You could find a lot of things to "simulate" that arrangement. A coffee mug for example or flower vase perhaps? Just check with the meter to make sure there is no continuity. (Some imported China products use some weird additives that might decrease the insulation value) For these lower voltages, I believe that any insulating material might do. Just find one that suits your configuration. Stubblefield used iron cores on his windings and this is probably important. What the composition of the iron in those days was is any body's guess. My little experiment with all of the various metals was just to see if I could up the mA, which I did. As it turns out, probably at a cost to the materials involved. I am going to change gears towards coil research now. I think your experiments show this is the right direction also, this is what Stubblefield did. You got 2 mA? That is a good number in this world of ours. Some don't get any, and I think I started with point something mA. My high record is better than I have ever received prior but, it appears galvanic action may have destroyed my experiment. Still 0 mA today.
Any one have any idea of the wire gauge Stubblefield might have used?
@ Joe:
Do you think it is time to shift to the "induction coil" arrangement that Stubblefield's patent described? This would be interesting in that, induction should only work with a "pulsed" power source, right?
Bill
@bill
I still think the series couple that was posted a few pages back is worthy of more investigation. As well as building an induction coil like stubblefeild's but with just the primary windings to start.. I wish i could be out there so whats your opinion.
Joe
Did I already say I want to add that induction coil direction to my experiments? I do.
I also just found an efficient way to review posts. I hit the print button under the reply button and the whole thread showed up on a new browser page. It is much easier to scrool down many pages back.
cool, thanks Stephan
jeanna
co-op today catch you later
Don't know if this has been addressed yet, but I've had good results from using a galvanized bolt (12'') with masking tape as insulator and wrapping bare copper wire #14 gauge around it. I got 0.9 VDC. This will eliminate the need to find north/south. Also, having the two dissimilar metals tightly wound in close proximity creates voltage (@ .5V) even without being in the ground.
BTW here's a link on earth batteries
http://www.icehouse.net/john34/earthbatt.html
if we are going to explore stubblefield wound coils i would suggest watching the way you coil your iron, for instance, when you wind a single nail if you stick it strait down what is the lower lead wire negative or positive? and what is the top?Ã, if you do a dual wound be careful of how the windings face, for instance your winding clockwise down one nail and winding counter clock wise up the next? what about 2 nails parallel but one after the other, both wound clock wise from top to bottom then clockwise top to bottom?Ã, the windings may alter the behavior! after all we are dealing with a planet and magnetic current a subtle difference could mean the world like say..... north and south alignment?
and consider the material of the core verses material of the windings.
and to answer the questions about iron, (i used to play with blacksmithing) i think you will find that iron is just iron, steel is iron and carbon mix, pig iron is high carbon mix (strait from smelting the iron ore usually) and tool steel is the highest carbon where they have to specially manufacture it to hold the carbon. steel only wants to naturally hold so much carbon and thats pig iron, unaturally high carbon is tool steel, and they have to cool the steel soo fast it cant loose the carbon, just like a drink it holds more carbon hot, and when it cools it "sweats" the excess out. giving pig iron a natural black finish that doesnt corrode or rust.
my 2 cents.
check back later.
@all
if you want to build something really interesting to bury in the back yard and confuse the neighbors, then check out these mammoth earth constructs that Louis Rota was building back in the 1930s:
http://www.wikirota.org/en/Earth_Antenna (http://www.wikirota.org/en/Earth_Antenna)
and here's construction pic of one of the many triplets in a Rota block:
something wierd but i think might be useful. this seems to be a similiar side effect we are getting. i cant explain it but something is just bugging me about this and i had to post.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=G4Mr_0S7zqw&feature=related
G'day all,
Have a look at the drawing below. Should be easy to replicate. Instead of the copper rod shown (which is difficult and expensive to get) I suggest using a length of copper pipe as used in plumbing.
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.icehouse.net%2Fjohn34%2Felectrocul1.jpg&hash=5580baba19c33cb4c4b618ec34f7d0c7150a7aaf)
Source: http://www.icehouse.net/john34/groundradio.html
Hans von Lieven
EDIT: Whist following up on ground wave radio, which is along the lines we are researching, I found this:
http://www.borderlands.com/newstuff/research/ground-myst.htm Fascinating read.
well we know iron likes magnetic current, if that is whats happening here. perhaps if we spun a copper coil plain in the air we could find out if the magnetic current is whats to play? this could be done by air alone. a good breeze and the coil in the right orientation and it would spin maybe get some volts? i noticed a couple volt spikes from the tesla coil but i couldnt replicate it. waiving it in the air didnt do any good and the little rotation i did didnt do much.
i wonder if we use hanz information about the iron pipe and the copper pipe inside, what if we add a nail with a coil around it? hmm.... id try it if i had copper.
oh i found out why i was pulling 2 miliamp with my aluminum and iron! i accidentally stabbed a root of a tree with both..... not sure if thats going to help our earth batteries or not. i think its particularly funny that we get 2 miliam voltage from a tree yet i cannot get any miliamp from myself?
what would happen if we put a giant copper coil around a tree! it has current right? maybe its getting its current from the radio bands in the area and grounding it, after all some radio bands dont pass through water and thus vegitation! heh this is wierd.
Hi everyone,
Here is what I did today. BTW the ground and all its water is frozen today.
I took a 12 " long 3/8" diameter iron spike.(steel?) I wrapped it with 8 feet of wire bifilar style with bare iron wire and insulated copper wire. I attached the top end of the iron coil to the bottom end of the copper wire using a separate copper wire going straight down the nail.This left me with an iron wire at the top of the winding and a copper wire at the bottom. I stuck a magnet onto the head of the nail. I also had a second 12" nail and magnet with me.
Outside, I got zero from most readings. These are the readings.:
I placed the wound nail in the E-W trough I made the other day so the telluric currents should be passing perpendicularly to this coiled nail. - zero between the 2 free wires on the nail and .2vdc between the wound nail (probe touching the nail itself) and a copper pipe in the ground.
Then, I stuck the wound nail into a hole in the ground (well first I stuck the other nail with its magnet into the hole then I propped the wound one on top of that) and checked wound coil again with the copper pipe. zero vdc, vac
I have left the cement pots outside in place with their electrodes in place. I checked them again today. the 3rd pot seems to be getting charged.
I decided that the frozen ground cannot respond or maybe it is the meter that cannot respond. I got very low readings on everything. The highest reading (almost normal 0.65vdc) was using that last pot so, I think it is charged and the next time the weather warms up and the ground dries up, I may see something from these cement pots.
Just so you are with me on this cement pot thing. I have already mentioned that I wanted to have something in the earth that is effected by the currents of the earth but that is separated from being in the same "sea" as the next set of electrodes. Bruce did this by moving away 30 inches, I was looking to do this with this other separate yet connected container.
There is another reason. It is more a hunch and less easy to articulate, but Sand in a glass inside gave me a reading of 0.05vdc (maybe higher) which grew then diminished. It was very active over about 2 hours. I think there is much electrical potential (pun- I mean it both ways) available in sand. The cement is charging and this puts it into a possible petrovoltaic category. I am looking at that too while I am doing this.
So, I basically think it is too cold to tell. The things that showed voltage the other day did not today or the voltage was down. I will try this again.
Since I have this spike wound I will keep it that way and I will take suggestions from you.
One more thing. I don't understand this. Inside before I started I waved a magnet back and forth along the length of this wound nail, and I also got nothing. I think I really don't know how to connect the wires in this thing, Shouldn't I have seen something from that?
jeanna
jeanna,
could you please supply a drawing or rough sketch of how you wound your spike.
also by have one wire of the coil insulated you are ruling out any galvanic effect, was that your intention?
Kind regards Ian
Good Thread, very interesting read.
- Schpankme
Quote from: ian middleton on January 16, 2008, 07:22:39 PM
jeanna,
could you please supply a drawing or rough sketch of how you wound your spike.
also by have one wire of the coil insulated you are ruling out any galvanic effect, was that your intention?
Kind regards Ian
Very rough very quick. Please see drawing below.
Yes, Ian, this was the idea. Also, I am pretty sure the Stubblefield patent went into some description of how one of the wires was wrapped in cotton cloth to separate it. I just used stranded insulated copper wire at close to the same gauge as the Fe wire, so they would come out close to the same number of windings. The insulation added a bit of girth to the cu wire so there was enough for 3 more times around with the fe wire, but I wound it just so the same length of wire was on the nail and wound.
G'Day all
@mramos: You will find that your cell phone signal is being absorbed by the moisture in the tree.
The signal isn't going anywhere. Some theories suggest that the absorbed phone signal increases enzyme activity
in the leaves and may warm them up by a micro degree or two.
Ian
I tested that rod (either carbon or graphite) in soil with some zinc strips. 1.02dc volts | 1.2AC volts | 2.2mA. The soil was pretty moist, so I will test again when dry. I think I could get a led lit with about 3 of these in series. I laid these in horizontally, as there's no way I could pound that shaft into the ground that far.
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg175.imageshack.us%2Fimg175%2F4762%2Fczcmy4.jpg&hash=54b5c328d71348ddd8d51ecda61377ce2ebeac03)
@ freezer
Awesome electrodes! You could probably cut those in quarters that would be about the size of the electrodes i used and my amperage was close to yours i think the highest i got before the snow was 1.3 -1.8 ma and the voltage was about 1.2 to 1.4 depending i was just using a copper pipe and zinc screws. Anyways cutting those pieces should still yied the same result individually and then you will have 4 couples to put in series. Just a thought :)
Joe
mramos i believe i said 2 miliamp and neglected to say voltage, my reading was .5+ volt at 1-2 miliamp fluctuating, the fluctuations occured half second 1 half second 2 and repeated steady.
jenna do you have more concrete left? perhaps make one last "pot" and in this one have 2 electrodes spaced nicely appart, when the concrete is poured run a 12 volt battery current through it? you may find you will need to pulse it to keep it from generating too much hydrogen in the water mix. what im thinking is this may align the quartz crystals in the pot for better electrical conductance... just an idea if your bored :) i dont have any concrete handy.
G'day all,
Still studying up on ground antenna I found the following passage. It it is interesting because we found out earlier that Stubblefield was doping the earth surrounding the batteries with metal salts and pitchblende. He could have very well used copper sulfate, in fact this is extremely likely. Anyway, see for yourself:
Added articulate dimensions made their appearance in a regime of improved ground antennas. Some designs employed chemical saturations to produce greatly clarified and intensified signals. The revolutionary approach began as a chemical treatment to existing ground terminals, a treatment giving superior empirical results. Chemically treated terminals brought a complete eradication of static.
The chemical of choice for these "treatments" was copper sulfate, the watery solution being liberally poured upon the buried terminal until the soil became a slurry. Allowed to dry out, these terminals displayed their enormously improved outputs. In other such experimental arrangements, copper sulfate solution was placed in a large porous cup. Contact was made with the solution with a metal rod. This design completely eliminated common static and other crackling noises, a significant improvement which also provided new insight into the nature of ground signals themselves.
The performances of chemically treated ground antennas was not well comprehended, it being simply assumed that the earth-permeating solutions projected a conductive horizon beyond the antenna itself. Poured into the ground and allowed to dry in situ, such solutions were thought to extend a wonderfully articulate matrix of "fingerlets" beyond the metallic antenna framework. Crystalline, complex, and replete with dendritic projections, such arrangements became ?woven into the earth". How did such an underground crystalline complex manage to multiply signal conductivity, while depressing all of the expected levels of static? Ensheathing the metallic framework, the crystallized solution represented a non-conductive envelope. How conductive was the crystallized "matrix" at all? Electrically unresponsive in its dried crystalline form, any such copper sulfate sheath should have blocked the entrance of all purely electrical currents. What carrier was then delivering its obviously improved signals?
Let me know what you think
@ Jeanna, As far as I know Stubblefield never mentioned cotton insulation for his iron and copper wires He simply called it insulated.
I believe the cotton idea was a later addition because of the assumption of galvanic currents being involved.
Hans von Lieven
@mramos
So, Mramos, why don't you ask the trees to take your messages for you? ;D
@Arctic Knight
Yes I am leaning in the direction of eventually adding a charge that I control. However, first, I want to see what the currents will add to the crystalizing cement, naturally. I think there will prove to be a lot I/we can learn by just watching what nature does herself.
Yes, I have a lot more cement and there's more where that came from. There is a long list that is growing of ideas. No, I am not bored and not likely to become bored, thanks. And I like your suggestion. (Have you been looking at the crystal battery thread too?) I will try to perfect this series effect a little more if I can control myself! Later I will add pulses and straight charge and coils to charge (if I can figure how to wire that up! YES, I WILL take suggestions on that).
Thanks everyone for sharing ideas and suggestions :D
jeanna
Hans - Thanks for the correction
Hans,
Was that a quote from Stubblefield himself?
As I read it I thought I smelled disinfo. Maybe not.
jeanna
Very interesting about the copper sulphate, almost sounds like a "natural" rechargeable Daniell Cell battery, with the earth currents replacing the lost copper ions. Something like this:
http://www.chrisspages.co.uk/MyCrazyIdeas/Practical%20Suggestions/OrganicLayerDanielCell/index.htm (http://www.chrisspages.co.uk/MyCrazyIdeas/Practical%20Suggestions/OrganicLayerDanielCell/index.htm)
Keep digging Hans ;)
tak
@ Jeanna,
I am only going by the patent
Hans
Quote from: hansvonlieven on January 17, 2008, 01:50:04 AM
@ Jeanna,
I am only going by the patent
Hans
OK It was in the patent? I wasn't clear that it came from there. Thanks for the clarification.
jeanna
G'day Tak and all,
This copper sulfate thing has me intrigued. It talks about eliminating static. Now these are proven results as many radio hams can confirm. But what do you get when you eliminate static?
Obviously improved resonance as any antagonistic vibration diminishes or kills resonance altogether.
So we are talking a resonant circuit again, NOT galvanic action. We have to get away from this idea of galvanic action, this is not what earth batteries are about in my view.
Hans von Lieven
hansvonlieven, I found that the galvanic action seems to be the reason for all these experiments for the most part. We get .44 volts from water, .6 from Pepsi, .75 volt from an orange, 1 volt from either the earth, a pickle, potato and or a tree. The problem is that I cant seem to get any real usable amperage. I did find that when pouring more fluid in the containers with the probes attached I do get a voltage increase but only while the fluid is being added, once the flow stops, the voltage drops back to the same. I also noticed the same effect when swirling the fluids. I do still get more from using flat iron instead of round.
I think I need to start using some caps and diodes, do you think they would help? If so, do you have any suggestions as to which ones I should use?
I am curious about what the elimination of static would do. Couldn't we use some sort of resistor to eliminate static? What do you think about attaching a resistor in between the probes and the earth? Or having a probe in the ground beneath the surface and then attaching a resistor from it to a probe that is in the air?
Sorry about all the questions.
Good morning everyone,
A guest popped in today. I would like to introduce you all to "STEELHEAD SALMON BATTERY".
He is as you can see operating at 1.14vdc and is the cousin of "TURKEY CHOKE" who made your acquaintance in November. Turkey Choke lives in the posh Coil section of town. Steelhead lives across the tracks in the more run down galvanic ghetto. ;D
(Sorry, american jokes)
jeanna
Edit; I have come to realize that this is not a copper salmon. It is much 'whiter' than other copper bowls and pipes etc. in my house. It is an alloy of some sort. Copper and iron are way too close to each other electrically to produce this much reaction. I will edit again if I ever find out what this metal is, but for now it is unknown.
G'Day jeanna,
Love your combination of art and technology. lol. Anyway I'll see your STEELHEAD SALMON and raise you a TIMMY TIN TART TRAY . Only he'll be on the crystal battery side a little later on when I get back from work. ;D
Ian
G'day Jeanna and all.
Well done.
For your next trick you should try pushing a couple of dissimilar electrodes into an Australian meat pie. Probably works too, which is just as well, for the damned things are barely edible. About time someone thought of something useful to do with them. ;D
Hans von Lieven
Welcome to the electric cooking show.
Hans, whatever you do, don't forget the SAUCE with that pie. That would probably be the only improvement you could make, ;D
Ian (ACT)
Bang on Cobber ;D
Hans
LOL electric cooking show, you guys are nutz ;D
jenna yea i have experimented with the crystal battery but i have not looked at any of their threads here. i did my own experimenting. i think youll find i have a little knowledge about a lotta stuff but not enough to work with :P
When I offered my 1/2 cent worth I received a reply that I was welcome if I came bearing gifts, well I must come back one more time with the gift of learning A teacher can not force one learn, a teacher can not love one to learn and worst of all a teacher can not impart knowledge by reward. Knowledge is not a commodity, it is rather a unique thing to every individual, no matter what one invests, the only thing that counts is inner desire and dedication.
Okay enough of the rebuke of my initial offer, here is my second and last post here, take it for what you wish.
If the earth had massive currents flowing through it that you could capture (in the magnitude you desire) why would not every worm, mole and bacterium surface?? Have any of you ever placed a couple of rods in the earth to cause the night crawlers to surface?? If you get in the right area all kinds of things surface. So what?? Hey if there were current channels flowing that all you had to do was tap the pipe and plug your house into, I would have been there years ago, but alas there are no current channels. It is not that simple, and what is available will not power a home, unless you own a many thousand acres. If you have that kind of resource you can do better by running a pair of wires in a big circle above ground (no transposition) and will get far greater 'Energy'. Hey I wish, boy if it were so simple, 'Plug into your yard'.
YES! I am being negative, yes I am saying there is nothing to your approach, hey just see the feedback I get!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
God love you all and keep at it, I have been wrong more than I have been right.........
G'Day all,
@ RStiffler: In a round about way you have correctly highlighted the dilemma the we in this forum face. The point you make about worms, moles and other bugs not coming to the surface because the earth current are not there, is not strictly correct. Having said that, it does illistrate very nicely what is going on. Take for example a powerline engineer who has to work on transmission lines. These power lines can have over 30Kv and hundreds of amps running through them. Big current.
But when he attatches himself to the line and becomes the same potential he can stay there all day without feeling a thing. In fact a flock of birds may also land on the same line and likewise not be affected. However should the linesman touch a tree of building that is of a different potential then he is in serious trouble. Then he would feel the current and yes he would move, very quickly indeed.
The worms , moles and bugs are all at the same potential and therefore feel nothing.
Earth currents are there in a big way, it is the potential between these currents, be they magnetic, electrical or whatever, that we are trying to tap. Natural potentials occur in the earth because of the earths magnetic field, differing rock stratas and densities, moisture content and also differing mineral deposits.
These potentials , produced by earth currents, can be detected. A cat, for example, is very sensitive to these and will only sleep in certain spots. The types of vegetation will change from one potential to another. Evidence of the effect of earth currents can be seen all over the world.
The purpose of an earth battery in to artificialy greate a usable potential from the currents it is emersed in. The you wouldn't expect to find many worms hanging around it.
Thanks for using the worm analogy.
Kind regards Ian
ps How do you weight a bucket of water under water?
I am flabbergasted,
Why this sudden outpouring of venom from RStiffler? What brought that on? I cannot recall anyone here on this thread ever having said a bad word about him or to him. In fact, if I remember correctly, he was warmly welcomed into this forum. There was nothing conditional about it.
This is all a bit strange to me.
Hans von Lieven
Quote from: RStiffler on January 18, 2008, 03:10:20 PM
A teacher can not force one learn, a teacher can not love one to learn and worst of all a teacher can not impart knowledge by reward. Knowledge is not a commodity, it is rather a unique thing to every individual, no matter what one invests, the only thing that counts is inner desire and dedication.
Here is what I said Jan 10:
QuoteRStiffler,
Would you like to join us?
Your 1/2 c makes it sound as though you already have the answer and you are guiding your students to learn it for themselves. While I respect that as a way to teach, I don't think it has a place here. If you with your good sounding ideas would like to join in the experiments I am sure we would all appreciate your sharing your results and thoughts and 2c for that matter.
jeanna
I apologize if what I said made you feel rebuked. I as always am only doing this to see how things work.
jeanna
Quote from: RStiffler on January 18, 2008, 03:10:20 PM
I have done some more testing recently, and it seems that there could be massive amounts flowing over a large area. The problem is a confined owned space to work within. What if it were possible to funnel this energy into collectors within a small area, and pull large amounts from the surrounding area?
If I read it correctly this guy uses a method of having least resistance for the energy pass from - to +, less than flowing through earth so more energy is pulled through his configuration (probably using electrodes at a medium to small distance). If we can exploit that and push it to the point that all surrounding energy want to flow through this configuration, then it can be achieved, I believe..
http://www.google.com/patents?id=xzs_AAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&dq=690,151
Quote from: hansvonlieven on January 18, 2008, 04:56:22 PM
I am flabbergasted,
Why this sudden outpouring of venom from RStiffler? What brought that on? I cannot recall anyone here on this thread ever having said a bad word about him or to him. In fact, if I remember correctly, he was warmly welcomed into this forum. There was nothing conditional about it.
This is all a bit strange to me.
Hans von Lieven
Boy! Now I have to break my word and make another post. Venom? Gee who was it in the early days of the thread on my work that popped from nowhere 'Questioning my credentials?" Was it Hans?
Hans. don't say something I did not say, you right to view my post is your right, but - you are so off base here it is silly........ Maybe you need to read it again! I said I was upset by a post when I offered a small amount of help, how did that cause your response? Still hung up, are you?
Quote from: ian middleton on January 18, 2008, 04:07:57 PM
G'Day all,
@ RStiffler: In a round about way you have correctly highlighted the dilemma the we in this forum face. The point you make about worms, moles and other bugs not coming to the surface because the earth current are not there, is not strictly correct. Having said that, it does illistrate very nicely what is going on. Take for example a powerline engineer who has to work on transmission lines. These power lines can have over 30Kv and hundreds of amps running through them. Big current.
But when he attatches himself to the line and becomes the same potential he can stay there all day without feeling a thing. In fact a flock of birds may also land on the same line and likewise not be affected. However should the linesman touch a tree of building that is of a different potential then he is in serious trouble. Then he would feel the current and yes he would move, very quickly indeed.
The worms , moles and bugs are all at the same potential and therefore feel nothing.
Earth currents are there in a big way, it is the potential between these currents, be they magnetic, electrical or whatever, that we are trying to tap. Natural potentials occur in the earth because of the earths magnetic field, differing rock stratas and densities, moisture content and also differing mineral deposits.
These potentials , produced by earth currents, can be detected. A cat, for example, is very sensitive to these and will only sleep in certain spots. The types of vegetation will change from one potential to another. Evidence of the effect of earth currents can be seen all over the world.
The purpose of an earth battery in to artificialy greate a usable potential from the currents it is emersed in. The you wouldn't expect to find many worms hanging around it.
Thanks for using the worm analogy.
Kind regards Ian
ps How do you weight a bucket of water under water?
What you say is correct for specific conditions. To help you understand, what is gradient? If you think you can not get worms or moles out of the ground by placing a couple of rods connected to 120VAC, then you better get the rods out. Its a fact any fisherman knows that needs the next days bait supply. No use arguing this, 'Gradient' it applies to your HV Lineman and a worn in the ground. Just try it, but hey you need worms or moles or spread your arms out wide and grab and hang from that HV transmission wire.
I took a good look at that joule thief schematic, today. I realized that I didn't connect the right dots when I was testing it.
In that (JT) circuit, the ground (-) is the twisted pair of one of each wire from the two. The other 2 wires represent a compartement so to speak of neg and pos but they are both on the + side of the ground and the operating circuit happens between those with the diode and the resistor and transistor doing its thing.
So, I hooked these up to the Cu and Mg then to the C and Zn. I got voltage. It was about what I can get for the pairs using a straight hook up.
Cu - Zn .9vdc
C4 of them - Zn 1.0 vdc
My fingers were too cold to continue.
Would anyone like to comment on what I should expect from this hook up?
I suspect the toroidal shape of the magnet in the joule thief is making the big increase. If so, maybe I sould make a giant joule thief with rebar.
Do you suppose I need a much stronger magnet to get this to amplify? (I am using 2 radioshack ceramic back to back.)
jeanna
G'Day all,
@ RStiffler: Of course I won't argue with you about putting rods into the ground to get the worms out.
I used to own a 4 acre worm farm running 100 meter long by 3 meter wide piles of manure. Instead of rods we used chicken wire as the electrodes. That way, 30 minutes or so, most of the worms would collect on one side of the line. Yes it made collecting them easy.
A gradient is a slope, a change in a value over time or distance. Between the top of the slope and the bottom of the slope is the potential. This may be voltage, current, pressure or temperature just to name a few.
The gradient in the ground is so slight that a potential may not even register with the worms. By putting rods in the ground you are artificially creating a steeper gradient and therefore a greater potential over a small area. Then I agree the worms would feel it.
If a linesman is electrically connected to the powerline there is no gradient, he won't notice a thing.
Thanks Ian
Quote from: ian middleton on January 18, 2008, 06:56:22 PM
G'Day all,
@ RStiffler: Of course I won't argue with you about putting rods into the ground to get the worms out.
I used to own a 4 acre worm farm running 100 meter long by 3 meter wide piles of manure. Instead of rods we used chicken wire as the electrodes. That way, 30 minutes or so, most of the worms would collect on one side of the line. Yes it made collecting them easy.
A gradient is a slope, a change in a value over time or distance. Between the top of the slope and the bottom of the slope is the potential. This may be voltage, current, pressure or temperature just to name a few.
The gradient in the ground is so slight that a potential may not even register with the worms. By putting rods in the ground you are artificially creating a steeper gradient and therefore a greater potential over a small area. Then I agree the worms would feel it.
If a linesman is electrically connected to the powerline there is no gradient, he won't notice a thing.
Thanks Ian
Great, we have an understanding, except, are you a HV Lineman or have you been? In other words you never experienced a coronal discharge into something as simple as the moisture laden air? Okay in the desert that would not be the case. Guess my imagination got to me in my early years.....
Okay thanks for the reply.
Quote from: Artic_Knight on January 18, 2008, 11:12:42 AM
i think youll find i have a little knowledge about a lotta stuff but not enough to work with :P
ya know, Arctic Knight, what I think is the most important thing is willingness to learn - not knowledge.
You clearly have willingness indeed excitement to learn. I appreciate that; and I think most of the folks in this thread do too. because with willingness to learn you can learn it all (so to speak). It is when you think you already know something that you close the door on more.
I particularly like this thread (this forum) because people are here to experiment with and find out stuff they didn't already know. It is why it is so alive.
just my 2c
jeanna ;)
Hi all,
@ RStiffler: Yes, I once had the pleasure of receiving a 60,000 volt zap. All my own fault. (in 1972)
But I seem to remember it was a pretty purple coloured coronal discharge. Also I found out that PAIN HURTS. LOL. But that's what you do as an apprentice..... isn't it?
Anyway no harm done...... lets get back on topic.
Ian
Quote from: jeanna on January 18, 2008, 08:30:42 PM
It is when you think you already know something that you close the door on more.
I think no one person can know it all, and I agree, if you think you have everything figured out, you are only deluding yourself. Reminds me of one of my teachers in college. This guy knew how to use every single program I could think of, even worked on building some of the programs we used, worked in engineering, and nano-technology, and the guy was always wanting to know more. He would even learn ideas from the students. You would think this guy would act like a know it all, but funny thing is, you couldn't tell him from the students.
@ Dr. Stiffler:
"but alas there are no current channels. It is not that simple, and what is available will not power a home, unless you own a many thousand acres."
The above is quoted from one of your posts. As I posted earlier, I respect your work on your resonant circuits and welcomed you to this topic. If you had read any of the earlier posts relating to Stubblefield and his results back at the turn of the century, you would have not said what I have quoted above. Stubblefield DID power his home. He also operated a phone system for Murry, Kentucky using only his earth cells. He, reportedly, operated over 50 arc lamps and HEATED his house, all from his cells. Granted, the power requirements for a home back then was way less than now, BUT, we also have access to things Mr. Stubblefield never dreamed of....transistors, ics, leds, circuit boards, etc. And, hopefully, more knowledge of the way things work. He did not use thousands of acres to do this. If you read any of the scientific papers posted previously, you would see that that is not required. There is great power in the earth and, just because we can only light 3 leds from it at this time does not mean that is all that can be done. We can light these leds forever, as far as I know, ant No cost. Not much I agree, but something nevertheless. In time, I believe we will be able to replicate Mr. Stubblefield's work and perhaps, surpass it. There are countless newspaper accounts of his working devices and their power if you care to read them.
I am in no way slamming you. I am just suggesting that before you post "absolutes" you read what has been posted prior to your comments first.
@ mramos:
Same thing. Read above response. Thank you.
@ All:
Keep up the great work. I will be back experimenting and posting soon, I hope.
Bill
@Rstiffler
To be frank .. I started this thread and I never asked for your help... when i welcomed it you never responded to me and now because Jenna has said something that made you uncomfortable you assume thats the view of all here. I assumed you were an adult, and well those comments you made were kinda rude and unthoughtful. If something is bothering you in life you should make sure to resolve it and not let it flow into other avenues of your life... Thats how this happens most of the time. Thanks for your time
Joe
Now thats what I call a lunch box. ;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: RStiffler on January 10, 2008, 03:09:13 PM
I have been watching this thread for some time and have a 1/2 cents worth of comment.
You are trying to intercept some current flowing in the earth? Hopefully not trying to make an earth battery as a Lemon or Potato will work better. Okay you are looking to capture some current in the earth so how would one go about it?
Electrode type should not be an issue (if you are capturing and not creating) a current. So maybe forget the electrode type problem. Except for DC do not all currents have frequency? Indeed they do, and that would present the concept of wavelength (how far to space the electrodes). But is not the earth somewhat like the human body?, a mass of currents flowing in all directions from synapse to synapse? Yes indeed you can place a voltmeter (sensitive) across any two area's of the body and measure a current, but it is only a very small current as each individual current flows in a different direction and many cancel, yes some add.
So what am I saying? Why not forget the DC concept, look only into varying currents. Now we still have the wavelength issue, but what about building a coil with a variable capacitor and placing it in the earth on a plastic pipe handle so it can be rotated. This would allow the coil to be turned and pickup the best of the tuned earths variable waves.
Look at it this way, if a home has a connection to the grid, currents flow from the home out in all directions to find the least resistance path back to the generator. They mix with other currents, add and subtract, often cancel, but spots are found where they are very large. Now you pay for current flowing into your home thought the meter, used in the devices you use, and out through a ground (neutral) connection. Once past the meter what you pick up is free :-). So from every home for example flows free energy, just waiting to be tapped with the right coil and capacitor.
A little thought gives an answer here. Use what you have, forget the Lemon and Potato, if you pull 200amp through your home, you expel 200amp, where?
versus:
Quote from: RStiffler on January 18, 2008, 03:10:20 PM
When I offered my 1/2 cent worth I received a reply that I was welcome if I came bearing gifts, well I must come back one more time with the gift of learning A teacher can not force one learn, a teacher can not love one to learn and worst of all a teacher can not impart knowledge by reward. Knowledge is not a commodity, it is rather a unique thing to every individual, no matter what one invests, the only thing that counts is inner desire and dedication.
Okay enough of the rebuke of my initial offer, here is my second and last post here, take it for what you wish.
If the earth had massive currents flowing through it that you could capture (in the magnitude you desire) why would not every worm, mole and bacterium surface?? Have any of you ever placed a couple of rods in the earth to cause the night crawlers to surface?? If you get in the right area all kinds of things surface. So what?? Hey if there were current channels flowing that all you had to do was tap the pipe and plug your house into, I would have been there years ago, but alas there are no current channels. It is not that simple, and what is available will not power a home, unless you own a many thousand acres. If you have that kind of resource you can do better by running a pair of wires in a big circle above ground (no transposition) and will get far greater 'Energy'. Hey I wish, boy if it were so simple, 'Plug into your yard'.
YES! I am being negative, yes I am saying there is nothing to your approach, hey just see the feedback I get!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
God love you all and keep at it, I have been wrong more than I have been right.........
Bit of a contradiction here wouldn't you say?
Hans von Lieven
G'day all,
Back to business. I have been re-reading some of the work of Prof. Dr. Eng. Jan Pajak. In some ways the guy is an absolute nutter. He believes the Tsunami and Hurricane Katrina were manufactured events, he sees evil forces and Changelings everywhere etc. etc.
Nevertheless, when he talks about technical matters he appears to have profound knowledge about a lot of things.
This is an article I feel you should read, it contains a number of interesting ideas that are of relevance here.
Hans von Lieven
The reversal of friction:
In 1924 the great French physicist, Louis DeBroglie, published his important discovery, which is sometimes called the "principle of the symmetry of nature". According to this principle, in our universe everything is strikingly symmetrical in many ways. DeBroglie's symmetry principle provided philosophical and scientific foundations, which allow us to understand a number of natural phenomena, thus opening them for explorations, discoveries, formulation of new theories, completion of new devices, etc. For example: the Periodic Table of the Elements (also called the Mendel?ev Table), the existence of a mirror duplicate for each elementary particle (e.g. electrons and positrons, protons and antiprotons), and the similarities between atoms and solar systems - all these document the symmetry existing in the structure of matter. The similarities between equations that describe different physical phenomena (e.g. Navier-Stock's equation describing flow of fluids and Laplace's equation describing heat transfer) express symmetry in the laws of nature. In turn the technological correspondence between e.g. pumps and hydraulic motors, or electricity generators and electric motors, reflect the symmetry in the operation of technical devices.
One of the vital implications of the DeBroglie's symmetry, which has a direct bearing on the creation of free energy devices, is the postulate that "every phenomenon must have a corresponding counter-phenomenon". So far a large number of phenomena and corresponding counter-phenomena has already been discovered, which confirm the correctness of this postulate. For example, the existence of electrical luminescence utilized in fluorescent bulbs and in various light-emitting diodes to transform electricity into light, has a counter-phenomenon in the form of the photoelectric effect that in photocells and solar panels transforms light into electricity. The so-called "left-hand rule", also called the "motor effect", which describes phenomena used for the transformation of electricity into motion, has its counter-rule in the form of "Fleming's right-hand rule", also called the "generator effect", which works in reverse, i.e. it transforms motion into electricity. The Seebeck Effect, which produces a flow of electrons through a junction of two dissimilar conductors being heated, has its counter-phenomenon in the form of the Peltier Effect, which causes the heating and cooling of materials in a similar junction when a current is flowed through it. The piezoelectric effect, which converts the deformation of a crystal into electricity, and which is utilised e.g. in piezoelectric lighters to produce an igniting spark, has its counter-partner in a phenomenon which also is called "piezoelectric effect", although it works in a reversed manner - i.e. it converts the electric impulse into a deformation of a crystal (this counter-phenomenon is utilised for example in piezoelectric vibration generators).
However, contemporary orthodox physicists claim that there is an exception to this postulate. They indicate friction to be this exception. According to all to-date claims of orthodox scientists, friction is considered to be the irreversible phenomenon, which has no counter-phenomenon. But in 1985, due to the formulation of a new scientific theory which I named the Concept of Dipolar Gravity, I was granted the privilege of discovering the phenomenon which represents an exact reversal of friction. Because in the natural form this phenomenon is manifested during telekinetic (or psychokinetic) motion, I named it the "Telekinetic Effect". In the same way as friction spontaneously converts motion into heat, the Telekinetic Effect spontaneously converts heat into motion. Not long after the Telekinetic Effect was discovered, I also managed to found technical ways of releasing it (through an acceleration or deceleration of magnetic field force lines).
The discovery, that the Telekinetic Effect represents a reversal of friction, and a subsequent discovery of the technological ways of activating this effect, provide the theoretical foundation for building various free energy devices. The reason for this is, that according to the mechanism of the effect discussed here, all what is required in order to generate such free electricity, is to subject a section of an electric wire to the action of such an effect. In the result, all free electrons that are contained in such a wire, are going to be put into the telekinetic motion from one end of the wire to the other end. In turn such a mass relocation of electrons in a wire, is nothing else but a flow of electric current. The thermal energy that sustains this flow originates from the environment, from which it is spontaneously extracted by the mechanism of the reversal of friction. The Telekinetic Effect is spontaneously extracting this energy from the environment just on its own. So this energy does not need to be supplied to the device which generates the free electricity (i.e. hence the expression "free energy").
@ Hans:
Back to business is correct. Very interesting theory by this guy. I believe this is just another way of stating Newton, which I believe. I mean, separate water into hydrogen and oxygen takes electricity but, combine the two and you get, electricity. (As powered our American space flights via fuel cells) This is fascinating.
Shifting gears a bit. I have been thinking about what my experiments have been trying to tell me. (I can be a little slow) Thinking back over my formal education in this area, I remembered that electrons always carry a negative charge, and protons always carry a positive one. Fine, as far as it goes. Why then when we have a "current" in a wire it is always electrons moving and not the protons? Why not both? And, also why not both interchanging at some frequency which mimics our "ac" which might explain some of our readings, and why Stubblefield could use primary and secondary coils which we know should not work with dc. Just some food for thought because I have seen in my experiments that one electrode that is ALWAYS positive can easily be made to become negative, but yet, you are still using the same materials.
@ Jeanna:
I commend you for your forward and out of the box thinking. Finding something new NEVER happened because someone else did it just the way "they" have always done it. This is exactly why I enjoy being here so much.
Bill
QuoteI have seen in my experiments that one electrode that is ALWAYS positive can easily be made to become negative, but yet, you are still using the same materials.
Bill,
Thank you for restating this. It is the reason we know we are seeing non "galvanic" reactions in the earth.
QuoteNot long after the Telekinetic Effect was discovered, I also managed to found technical ways of releasing it (through an acceleration or deceleration of magnetic field force lines).
Hans,
Thank you for bringing this to this thread. Jan Pajak, as you know, works with the pyramid form. There is a kind of heat produced inside the pyramid. I was at a whole life expo once where someone was selling pyramid corner joints. They had an 8 ft pyramid on display and there was a line of people wanting to experience sitting in the chair. After sitting for 10 min (it was an expo) everyone was asked what it had felt like. The survey showed that there were many similar reactions but the one everyone had experienced was the sensation of warmth. Now, there is no thermometer that registers this warmth (that I know of) but all the human bodies registered it. The other sensation that was almost universal was the feeling of tingling. Now, tingling would mean nerves and nerves operate chemically to produce electricity in our bodies.
----------
I think these things are related by magnetic events.
The electrons (or charge) going down a wire create a magnetic field around the wire - An inductor coil uses the magnetic field produced by something (usually an adjacent coil that has electricity going through with its consequent magnetic field) to produce electricity.
If we can sidle up next to a magnetic field and make the right size and shape of inductor coil, we should be able to see electricity on some wires.
A related event:
Something happened to my joule thiefs. I made the first one then 2 or 3 days later I made the second one with a red led. Yesterday I couldn't get the red one to light. I even recharged some batteries and it didn't work. Then I went into the room where I had put the first one, and I found that it doesn't work anymore either. - I may be making the wrong conclusion, but I decided that I think it is that the magnet that I used is too big and too strong and it eventually blasted the transistor and or the LED.
So, I woke up this morning thinking about the +'s and the "holes" as they are described in transistors, and I have been wondering if the way a magnet can blast a transistor is that it just fills every bit of potential in the doping of the Si and so nothing has any reason to move.
In the galvanic part of what we have been finding on our earth batteries, I think the doping is from the local soils and their conditions. It is like the inside channels of the transistor with little pockets of more or less. In the transistor, once you have achieved .7v the electrons move out, but they are always replaced from the other side so the transistor continues to function as it was designed to. (unless too much voltage or too much magnetism blast it)
Our earth and its magnetic field is so big compared to us maybe we need to be isolating our systems like transistors, somehow so we are on the edge of the field so we can get the effect of it. I don't know how to do this, but I wanted to share my morning musings with everybody. Maybe someone else will know or have more ways to try to get at this.
Tesla was always talking about the dielectric. The dielectric could be seen as the separator. In a way, maybe Bruce's 30 inch spacing and my cement pots are enough of a way to separate.
aaugh!!
jeanna
G'Day all,
@Hans: Thanks for the reminder about Pajak. Interesting stuff.
All those who believe in telekinesis...... raise my hand. ;D ;D ;D
Ian
@ ian:
Good one!! Ha ha. I'll have to remember that one.
@ All:
Some potentially (pun possibly intended) good news. It is like 12 degrees here but I wanted to check on the new cell
that produced my highest results and then stopped. Well, everything I check on for mA was 0. Every combination. I got to thinking about when someone posted about the fuse on their meter being blown, and once repaired, he obtained mA, so I
went inside where it is warm and, low and behold, blown fuse!!!! My dvm is only about 4 months old but I must have "overloaded" it in some manner to have blown this. Now, I will have to try to find a replacement fuse (very small weird kind) but at least, I am still producing mA.
Bill
Here is a picture I am uploading for my symbol. I don't know where else on the web to put it but here. ;)
jeanna
@ Jeanna:
That's a great idea! I had to use the icon from my youtube account as that's the only picture on line of me. Now, my only question for you is....what the heck is that a photo of???
Bill
Bill,
I don't know. It doesn't seem to have worked?
I was hoping you would be able to help. I guess not
Anybody else?
What do I do to identify this picture to my profile?
Joe did this He knows, Hey Joe- what do I do?
jeanna
Jeanna:
All I know is that I think you just copy from the address bar (all info) and paste it as your link to your picture. That's all I did from my youtube account. So, go to your message above where your picture is and note or copy the address and see if that works. Otherwise, it might use the entire message as your avatar and not just the picture.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on January 20, 2008, 03:05:43 PM
Now, my only question for you is....what the heck is that a photo of???
Bill
It is a picture of me taken out of time, so to speak. I traveled forward in time about 6 months and saw me take my picture. I didn't realize I was so close to the ceiling. ;D When the "Time" arrived, I took a picture in the direction of the fireplace wall. Later, I noticed. I had forgotten (for a time at least ;D)
jeanna
Jeanna,
Right click on the picture here in the forum, select copy location and paste that into your profile.
Hans
Thanks Hans. I didn't realize that was so easy.
I am going to try to change my profile photo as well. (Sorry for the off-topic post)
Got it,
Thank you, Hans
jeanna
Quote from: jeanna on January 20, 2008, 02:37:51 PM
Someone posted a link earlier, and in there earth battery design they insulated the bottom of each cell using plastic, but not sealing it from moister or ground water so the soil on the inside would replenish, but the two pairs would not be shorted out, and thus multiply in voltage like common batteries do. I think Stubblefield's cell was larger than we think, it could have had a massive amount of these copper and iron windings, and to think each layer could be separated with cotton, you would probably get a large magnetic field and a good amount of volts and amps. If you look at his main cell, its very wide, using thick massive lengths of wire. I haven't seen anyone try this so far with that amount of wire. Of course it would be pretty costly to make a cell that large.
I'm still trying out different configurations, and it gets more interesting as you try different ways. I can also confirm that two of the same metals like zinc will produce mA/ voltage which I think comes back to resistance, and the wire being the least.
Have a look at some earlier posts freezer,
I did post a photo of a box of Stubblefield coils. They look about 6 inches high and about 3 inches in diameter.
Hans von Lieven
Quote from: hansvonlieven on January 20, 2008, 04:16:31 PM
Have a look at some earlier posts freezer,
I did post a photo of a box of Stubblefield coils. They look about 6 inches high and about 3 inches in diameter.
Hans von Lieven
Hard finding stuff in this thread. :-\ I will try..
I wonder does anyone know exactly how much power each of his cells produced?
enough to run a small motor for 60 days
There is a picture of the motor he used somewhere in this thread too.
Hans
Quote from: Freezer on January 20, 2008, 04:12:08 PM
I'm still trying out different configurations, and it gets more interesting as you try different ways. I can also confirm that two of the same metals like zinc will produce mA/ voltage which I think comes back to resistance, and the wire being the least.
Freezer,
Would you be willing to tell us of things you try as you try them. It doesn't matter if they don't work. Just hearing the ideas can tweak a seemingly unrelated thought to produce an idea in somebody else. - the think tank approach.
Thanks,
jeanna
Quote from: jeanna on January 20, 2008, 04:28:49 PM
Freezer,
Would you be willing to tell us of things you try as you try them. It doesn't matter if they don't work. Just hearing the ideas can tweak a seemingly unrelated thought to produce an idea in somebody else. - the think tank approach.
Thanks,
jeanna
Well, I have just been using 4 electrodes, 2+ and 2 - using distance, depth, and amount in relation to each other. I think the two different metals you are tapping energy from have to be closest to each other, while the others you maintain as much distance to gather from a as wide of an area as you have. You can still feed energy back to the starting south point as well for an increase. I think its like tree roots. Tree roots spread width-wise. I think voltage is to width and amperage is to depth and amount of copper as others have said. The trick is how do you create a huge draw and super low resistance to the north, and back to the south again. I think it would be easy to get 12 volts if you are separating the cells as in that link. The more I encapsulated each cell the more increase in voltage. So if its really sealed then it wont short itself in a small area and you can put them right next to each other. They also have a circuit diagram which looks pretty easy which will do away with having to seal the bottom and prevent the shorting out. I need to get some diodes and stuff for that. Stubblefield however used some additional method if he's getting that type of power.
Quote from: mramos on January 20, 2008, 04:57:40 PM
I am still lost back at the joule thief that died due to a magnet? Mine have no magnets (and nor should it). The are HV OSC (pump/boost) circuits to light an LED from a voltage too low where there is plenty of power (current).
And the bricks in an avatar that are supposed to mean something (that really lost me). But like Freezer, can not go back and read all that as well.
And far as the .7vdc on doping, that is an ideal number for silicon. I use germanium on most stuff here as there is never any current. Ideal is .3vdc.
Thank you for replying to the joule thief query. I am a beginner in electronics. When the list said ferrite bead I took that to mean a magnet. I will be getting some ferrite beads next week. Thanks for the correction.
Nevermind the bricks. It was a result of a different kind of experiment relating to time.
I just have the Si type transistors. But the point was the line that forms where the 2 doped sections meet is where the action is. and the separation I am thinking about comes in the form of the little plastic housing that makes the electrical world inside the transistor have different rules and pathways from the larger circuit on the outside. It is why it works as a switch and an amplifier etc. It is a world of its own, sort of.
@everyone
So with that (separation line) in mind I went outside (brr) and checked a few things that have been in the ground for a while. On a lark I stuck the probes into the dirt of one cement pot and the loose carbon in another pot. The reading started at .090vdc and went down then went below zero to about -0.048vdc. I went inside for my camera. I repeated it . this time it stayed above zero at about 0.044vdc. Then I swung the dial to ohms and there 637,000 ohms.this between the 2 pots one with dirt one with carbon. I guess that is pretty good separation? :D
jeanna
http://youtube.com/watch?v=vixrFpm0p_g (http://youtube.com/watch?v=vixrFpm0p_g)
@mramos: Above should be a link to a video I uploaded to youtube a little while back. Yes, it is very difficult to locate stuff once a topic gets as long as this one is. I was thinking we should start another topic and move just the links, patents, circuits, photos, etc there for easier access. In this video, I am lighting 2 flashing led's from the earth cell. Not long after, I added my original one back into the circuit and had 2 flashing and one solid led running. I am up to 9mA but have not been able to get higher yet. I have some ideas, just need some time and money.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on January 20, 2008, 06:51:17 PM
Yes, it is very difficult to locate stuff once a topic gets as long as this one is.
Bill
I posted this last week. I found it by surprise.
I clicked onto the print button at the bottom of the page. A new windo came up - it took a little time- then the entire thread from beginning to present showed up on one browser page.
Maybe it doesn't work on all browsers. I would just do that once and keep it in a text file for easier reference. Then later again when things get too long again.
jeanna
@ Jeanna:
Yes, I read when you posted that but, it drops out all photos and circuit diagrams, etc. I guess someone could read it and, make a note of the page number where someone posted a photo of a device and then go to the forum and look it up. It just seems cumbersome to me. I had to post the picture of my little circuit three times before I could explain to you all what I was doing. (It's hard to explain when you are not sure yourself) Someone just reading the "print" page would never see that or any of the patents that Hans, and the rest of us posted. What do you think of a second topic to be used just for the technical stuff? Of course, I guess we could not stop people from just posting anything there. I just thought it might be easier to say "See my op-amp circuit diagram on page 3." (Not 300, ha ha) Just a thought. Is your fish done yet?
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on January 20, 2008, 08:10:18 PM
@ Jeanna:
Yes, I read when you posted that but, it drops out all photos and circuit diagrams, etc. "See my op-amp circuit diagram on page 3." (Not 300, ha ha) Just a thought. Is your fish done yet?
Bill
Bill, what you say is true. Now, look at this
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 02, 2007, 09:15:20 PM
That is not the page number, but it is the date and time of the post you made with the list of metals with their galvanic differences.- or whatever that is called. You don't know what page that is but you can find it way faster than trying for page 10 then 20 then 5 etc. Plus it doesn't take bandwidth at the time you are doing it. once you get close you can go find the page, It does have links. Anything that is text. I dunno, I thought it was easier.
I also don't think you can control what people are going to do. take yesterday for example... ;D
jeanna
I spent the day on some of the tpu threads.
At the end of my eyes, I saw this
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3547.105
Marco did some single wire experiments that are cool AND may relate to what we are seeing with these earth batteries. I am thinking about the no voltage spot. ???
jeanna
@ Jeanna:
Thank you for "discovering" the print option. Yes, it has its limitations as I have pointed out, but, it is still way better than searching back pages looking for something we missed. I will check out the link you just posted. As I have said before, I believe a lot of the topics here are related in ways we all just don't see....YET! But we all will.
I am very excited that I have a blown fuse in my dmm and my new cell did not self destruct. I will report more as soon as I am able to do so. I was telling a friend about that and he said it was interesting that I could capture enough power to blow that fuse. I had never thought about it that way before. I have never used this new digital meter for anything other than the earth battery experiments. So, maybe that failure was not so bad afterall.
Bill
Quote from: jeanna on January 22, 2008, 12:05:30 AM
I spent the day on some of the tpu threads.
At the end of my eyes, I saw this
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3547.105
Marco did some single wire experiments that are cool AND may relate to what we are seeing with these earth batteries. I am thinking about the no voltage spot. ???
jeanna
Good Girl,
This is where my thinking lies at the moment. The Midpoint, the point of equilibrium. All these things we have discussed have at the crux of it the use of a midpoint, be it magnetic, electric or mechanic.
Whatever you do at that point affects the whole and with a minimum of energy to boot.
Keep it coming Jeanna, we are progressing, I feel it.
Hans von Lieven
Greetings all. I stumbled on this forum while doing research on earth batteries, and find a lot of people are in the same boat as I am trying to get electricity from the earths magnetic field. After reading a lot of the posts, I cast about for what materials I had around the house and came up with a handfull of copper pipe and a few zinc rods. I took them outside to my garden spot and aligned them on a N/S axis with the copper pipe being North, planted them about 2-3" deep standing up and around 18" apart. Bear in mind here that my soil was damp from a recent snowfall of 3 days ago, so I wasn't working with dry soil. My readings were a steady 1.3 volts DC on the first try. I then decided to see if I could connect them in series, so I planted 3 copper pipes and 3 zinc rods, took bare copper wire and hooked all the copper pipes together and all the zinc rods together and got a reading of .9 volts DC, hmmm somethings not right here. I then removed the wire from the zinc rods and touched one zinc rod to the three connected copper pipes and got the same thing, disappointed I the took the wire off the copper pipes and touched each individual set by itself and got the old reading of 1.3 vdc. Couldn't figure that one out, they don't seem to work in series at all, maybe its the damp ground, I'll go back and try again when its good and dry. That reading should have been 3.9 vdc not .9 vdc. I have other plans to try planting things like plates and TV antennas to see what if anything might happen. I'd also like to try Tesla's antenna device where he put a collector in the air, a plate in the ground, and hooked them to a capacitor to see if that works. This is a great thread, keep up the good work.
Quote from: MrSpates on January 22, 2008, 01:27:22 PM
Welcome to the thread Mr.Spates. The reason the voltage is not adding, is that they are shorting out as you expected. The soil is a decent conductor, maybe too good, so you will have to isolate one electrode as to not short out the other cell. I just finished 2 isolated cells, but its been raining lately, so I can't test it out yet. I'm sure if they are isolated they will add together like regular batteries.
Looking more at Stubblefields cell, I noticed he has wrapped his iron and copper windings in a tesla coil type fashion in the horizontal plane. I think he was creating a decent rotating magnetic field, which is run by magnetic earth current. My next cell when I get enough money will be to wrap windings in this way and see what it does. I wonder if the winding were wound in opposite directions?
@ MrSpates:
Welcome to our efforts. First, I don't think you were wiring in series if you connected all the copper together, and all of the zinc, this is parallel I believe. What you should have done was check your mA readings when doing that. I think you will see your vdc dropped a little but your milliamps would have increased. I would bet on it. This is how I am able to raise my mA readings. Good luck and keep it up. Keep us informed of your experiments.
Bill
How would you isolate the cells? The electrode has to be touching the earth doesn't it? so anything you covered the electrode with would have to be nonconducting and thereby blocking the flow of electricity to the electrode. I saw on one website where someone painted the copper pipe with red lacquer and placed the zinc inside the pipe. I don't know how the zinc was held in the pipe wheather it was touching the pipe or not. I tried holding the zinc first hanging it then touching it and got no reading at all. How can the current flow through paint or maybe plastic without shorting out everything else or can it? The guy claimed 1.5 volts per cell with his set up.
Someone posted this earlier, it has the instructions. I think you want the moisture to enter, but no contact with the outside soil.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3500.0;attach=15689
I think they do paint the outside of the pipe giving the outside soil no contact with the inside, with plastic on the bottom. In my cell I covered only the bottom, so I will see at least if there is an increase in voltage. I found that amperage is easily achieved with more copper and zinc, although the hard part is multiplying the voltage to allow for more power to flow through. I'm trying something like a voltaic pile to try and increase voltage.
@ Freezer,
You wanted to know where you could find a photo of the Stubblefield earth batteries. I could not find the picture in the thread, so I'm posting it again.
Hans von Lieven
Looks like he uses a ton of cells. I think its something like 50 cells in that box and they are in sacks? So he just uses dirt as electrolyte? Maybe he has a connection to earth, then goes through the cell bank, and then back to ground?
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi29.tinypic.com%2F332bk87.jpg&hash=2fbc4aa5b60a4a660cf3fd06d8e9407118231e5d)
Has anyone read the book on Stubblefield by Bob Lochte? Is it worth getting?
@ Freezer,
I think this is just a box full of batteries he put there for the photograph. I don't think it is part of a working circuit.
Hans von Lieven
Quote from: MrSpates on January 22, 2008, 02:26:40 PM
How would you isolate the cells? The electrode has to be touching the earth doesn't it? so anything you covered the electrode with would have to be nonconducting and thereby blocking the flow of electricity to the electrode. I saw on one website where someone painted the copper pipe with red lacquer and placed the zinc inside the pipe. I don't know how the zinc was held in the pipe wheather it was touching the pipe or not. I tried holding the zinc first hanging it then touching it and got no reading at all. How can the current flow through paint or maybe plastic without shorting out everything else or can it? The guy claimed 1.5 volts per cell with his set up.
Welcome, MrSpates,
You have just summed it up.
I went after this problem by making something that could be in the ground and yet be kind of separated from the exact soil that makes the whole thing become one cell again (or cells in parallel- sort of) I made cement pots that can be at a close distance to the other pots. In series there is an additive effect, but they need to be charged I think. I got double my first reading from the first added cell. What I must do with these is keep them in the same place in the earth. They charge up, but if I move them around they lose their charge. Freezer, (I think) is making cells separated by 30 inches to get the series effect.
I don't and I think many on this thread don't want to be making a galvanc jar out of the soil. I think we are seeing something that is very different from what we thought we would find when we started. It is very intriguing.
You seem to have good soil. Bill is the only other one here (I think the only one) that can get 1.3v from Cu and Zn. (I get from 0.9v-1.1v)
Anyway, we have a lot of fun in this thread. Please try some things and let us know of your failures as well as your successes - as you have today- and...
Maybe if you got a Mg fire brick and graphite rod like Bill, you could light a LED too. :D
jeanna
Quote from: Freezer on January 22, 2008, 01:46:47 PM
Looking more at Stubblefields cell, I noticed he has wrapped his iron and copper windings in a tesla coil type fashion in the horizontal plane. I think he was creating a decent rotating magnetic field, which is run by magnetic earth current. My next cell when I get enough money will be to wrap windings in this way and see what it does.
Freezer,
Could you explain this again to me? Or can you make a drawing? (with mouse, or on paper then scan it onto your comp?)
this part especially, In the tesla coil type fashion in the horizontal plane.
Thanks,
jeanna
@ MadDog:
Welcome!!! It was great to see you the other day. I have heard of this book but have not read it. Our local library does not have it. (I looked) Jeanna has discovered that if you hit the "print" button at the bottom of the page, you can get the entire topic in an easy to read form. (You don't have to print it out, you can copy and paste it to a word document for later reading) there are some great photos and circuit diagrams and other things that will not show up with the print option, but you can make a note of them, and look for them in the topic pages later. It's great to see you here!
@ All:
MadDog is a good friend of mine that I invited to this topic. He and I have done many crazy experiments back over the years while working in the precision ceramic machining industry. Most of those experiments we will not talk about, ha ha. He has a great mind and an open one. He will be an asset to our efforts here. He has already contacted the person at Murry State University who is in charge of the Stubblefield stuff. There will be a field trip to see what we can grab, I mean learn from the museum items.
Bill
Quote from: jeanna on January 22, 2008, 07:15:27 PM
Could you explain this again to me? Or can you make a drawing? (with mouse, or on paper then scan it onto your comp?)
this part especially, In the tesla coil type fashion in the horizontal plane.
Thanks,
jeanna
The coil on the top is what I was gonna do, alternating layers with iron and copper wire.
http://www.thunting.com/geotech/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=506&stc=1&d=1139522747
Here Stubblefields cell. You can see he wound his wire horizontally outwards in layers. I was thinking this might create a field which can be used or added. It could also be that the layers were done in series and acted like a voltaic pile which is more mundane. I think he used cotton to separate the layers.
http://www.google.com/patents?id=Q19NAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA4&dq=nathan+stubblefield#PPA4,M1
This was just a idea, I don't know how Stubblefields cell actually worked.
Quote from: Freezer on January 22, 2008, 07:55:22 PM
Thanks, Freezer. It is a funny thing. I looked at that patent every day a bunch of years ago. I just didn't know what to do with it. It makes a lot more sense to me now. I will study it anew!
Thanks a lot,
jeanna
@maddog,
Welcome. No I will look for the book.
jeanna
Quote from: Freezer on January 22, 2008, 07:55:22 PM
Quote from: jeanna on January 22, 2008, 07:15:27 PM
Could you explain this again to me? Or can you make a drawing? (with mouse, or on paper then scan it onto your comp?)
this part especially, In the tesla coil type fashion in the horizontal plane.
Thanks,
jeanna
The coil on the top is what I was gonna do, alternating layers with iron and copper wire.
http://www.thunting.com/geotech/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=506&stc=1&d=1139522747
Here Stubblefields cell. You can see he wound his wire horizontally outwards in layers. I was thinking this might create a field which can be used or added. It could also be that the layers were done in series and acted like a voltaic pile which is more mundane. I think he used cotton to separate the layers.
http://www.google.com/patents?id=Q19NAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA4&dq=nathan+stubblefield#PPA4,M1
This was just a idea, I don't know how Stubblefields cell actually worked.
Sorry Freezer,
Stubblefield did not wind the coils in the flat Tesla bi-filar fashion. He simply wound the coil conventionally with the iron and copper side by side.
See attached detail from his patent.
Hans von Lieven
Hi everyone,
I just got this information from Ian Middleton in a response to a ? I asked him. That he is having trouble getting onto the forum is perhaps the reason he is not doing this himself. I think it is terrific. here goes:
QuoteDo you have a set of old crystal earpeices. If you have then hook them up to your + and - of the earth battery setup you have at the moment. Then listen. You should hear pips and crackles. You may even hear a constant hiss.
It will only work with the high impedance earphones.
Don't worry if you can't hear them, they are there and they are made by the action of your dissimilar metals in the ground. Better still if you had an oscilloscope you would be able to see the masses of spikes generated in the ground.
These spikes go + and - and they are multi-frequency sine waves.
Now back to ol Stubb. You know that if you take 2 metal rods, iron and copper and put them in wet earth or a salmon dish, you will get a galvanic voltage. If those rods were say 10 foot long you would still get the same voltage but more current. :)
The current only comes when you short out the rods through a light or DVM or anything that draws current. When the current flows, a magnetic field is set up around the wires. If the voltage and current were true DC then the magnetic field would remain stationary in magnitude. And as you know over a period of time the galvanic action would break down the metals into their respective salts and the battery will go dead. :'(
This is where Stubblefield got crafty or was just plain lucky. He took those 10 foot rods (wires) and wound them around a soft iron core. Bifilar style. He would have known this from Tesla's experiments.
The galvanic battery now became an electro magnet at the same time. If the galvanic voltage was, as said, true DC then the induced magnetic field in the iron core would also remain static at a given strength.
For the outer solenoid to function an oscillating magnetic field would have to be induced in it. This oscillating magnetic field was brought about by the rapid making and breaking of the primary galvanic circuit.
In Stubblefields day most of the apparatus he used were inductive. Morse key tappers and electro magnetic bells were common. This explains why the batteries lasted so long and were not so quickly destroyed by galvanic action.
When a momentary contact was made across the two wires a current was drawn and a magnetic field was set up in the center core. When the contact was broken, the magnetic field in the core collapsed inducing a back emf. This would create a reverse voltage across the wires enabling the elemental metals to be deposited back to their original electrodes. A bit like electro plating. Much of the success of his batteries was due to the equipement he used them with.
jeanna please feel free to cut and paste this into one of your posts.
Cool, There is a lot of information in this piece.
Thank you Ian!!
jeanna
Now I wonder what old crystal headphones are. How old? I have some from the 80's. Or how can I tell. I bet lots of you guys know.
I used a piezo speaker/mic? thing from my bag of tricks one day when I couldn't see a led but thought I should be able to. I hit the zinc rod to my left and heard it hit over to my right where the piezo thing was. So, maybe this was the right idea. The grass is still frosty - maybe I will have a chance to try this later on today.
Freezer and Arctic Knight, Bruce you are in warm country yes? Hans - it is summer where you are... ;D Anyone else?
smiling today,
jeanna
@localjoe
Hey sorry for not getting back sooner, but have my own thing going on.
Hey brother, you got one problem dude. I fell so sorry for you...
Keep up the great work people, I have nothing for you in your quest......
???
@docstiff
That was taken when i was six the lunch box was 45 dollars and it was a rough time in life for me... or i found it in my funny pictures folder cause you had an uncalled for outburst.. in other words forget what i said if it was offensive just leave the drama outa this thread ... you know we'd all like your two cents just dont be sensitive when reading stuff here were ball busters. ;)
Joe
@ Hans:
Thank you for posting that coil sketch from Stubblefield's patent again. You know what? With my recent reading and attempting to learn more about electronics, I saw for the first time (this time) how this coil is wired. This is very do-able. I still disagree strongly with anyone that persists in saying this type of electricity is "galvanic" action. We keep seeing that over and over and I am almost tired of attempting to correct this idea. The idea that Stubblefield's coils were able to "last longer" before being destroyed by galvanic action is incorrect in my opinion. I thought my experiments had proved this. but now that we (I) am moving into coil research, I do not expect anything different as far as galvanic destruction is concerned. I mean, just think of all the dissimilar metals in the ground from pipes, to posts, to stakes, etc. They are not "consumed" because they are not close enough to do so. I can place electrodes 30, 50, 100 feet apart and I really doubt that "they" know the other electrode is there.
Field trip to the Murry State University achieves is being planned as we speak. My cell is still producing and I will keep all updated.
Bill
G'day Bill,
You are right. I have been saying for a long time that galvanic action plays but a small part in the Stubblefield coil. Stubblefield's circuits ran COLD regardless of load.
Let us not forget here that Stubblefield and Tesla were life long friends that worked TOGETHER on the Stubblefield project.
In my view the galvanic action in the coil serves only to provide enough current to set up a weak magnetic field in the coil that is meant to interact with something larger. In the coil I am building I make no use of galvanic current at all but provide the necessary bias with a small battery instead. Below is how I am building it.
Hans von Lieven
Quote from: Pirate88179 on January 24, 2008, 12:44:38 AM
Field trip to the Murry State University achieves is being planned as we speak.
Bill
@All,
Could we help to expedite that trip by sending Bill some donations to cover his expenses?
I mean it will benefit everyone in the process and I am sure Bill will appreciate this too.
For me, it will give a great satisfaction that I helped in the development of the Earth Batteries!
George
G'day,
I'll repost this here since it belongs here too. I posted this today in Single wire experiments.
G'day all,
On this one I need help from you electronics guys. I am only a humble mechanical engineer and though I can read and understand circuit diagrams I don't know enough to design a circuit. What I am trying to do is feed complex pulses (a la Keely) in opposing directions through anything from a single wire to coils to electrodes in an electrolyte to study the effects.
I intend to use my computer as the frequency generator, I have the necessary programmes.
I intend to optically isolate the test rig from the computer using optocouplers. You can see in the attached diagram what I have in mind.
What I need is a circuit that drives the LED's with my audio output. How do I go about this. Any suggestion gratefully received.
Obviously in my proposed setup anything you wish can be connected to the terminals A and B.
Hans von Lieven
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.overunity.com%2Findex.php%3Faction%3Ddlattach%3Btopic%3D3547.0%3Battach%3D16811&hash=ed808cd0ee15d129eebb27ae73b69c3840d9d197)
@ George:
Thank you for your thought. I should be able to make it there on my own. Also, our new member Mad Dog is going with me so we can split expenses. Very thoughtful of you to suggest this though. Thanks.
@ Hans:
Your coil diagram is very clear to me, nice drawing. My only question left is this...the two wires are wound as shown around the soft iron core as per Stubblefield from say, the top to the bottom. Once you get to the bottom, do you start back up again creating a second "layer" of double windings? Or, is it just a single layer? Your explanation in an earlier post (battery) reminds me once again of Stubblefield's comment of "priming the pump." By this, possibly he did not mean charging the cell as I first thought, maybe he just meant to create an electromagnetic field around his coils? I think you are on the right track, but then, what do I know??? I am going to try to replicate a very similar design over the next few weeks. What are you using for the iron wire? Fence wire? Something else? Is your copper wire stranded or solid? sorry for all of the questions. Optocoupler...excellent idea there.
Bill
Hi All,
I made a post that I think is relevant to our findings in earth batteries. I made the post over at
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3547.new.html#new (post 147)
This is about getting way less voltage in the middle of 2 completely operating currents that are using the same wire simultaneously but in opposite directions. Because the earth has some currents that we are trying to catch and that seem to be traveling in differing directions simultaneously, I think those who are here might really want to look at this concept.
I burned the tip of my finger getting the battery out! It got the batteries really hot.
jeanna
@ hans
I have a somewhat solution for your light problem
I hooked up my joule theif to my pc to try and do what you were talking about. Heres the results
Alone with the signal generator i got somewheres around .450 volts ac no dc from the 3.5mm cable hooked directly to meter
i hooked up the leads to the joule thief to play for a little.... Hot to the positive input on the toroid and ground to the -
I got blinking led's between 1 and 8 hertz 3 - 7 seemed to work the best, i had to set my duty cycle to between 1 and 5 percent for results the amplitude was set to .6
i had two led's in parallel and their blinking nicely. I by mistake shorted my base of my transistor the middle pin to the ground of the led's and for some reason it makes this brighter, doe sent in normal operation .
Secondly the voltage across the diodes is about 1.6 v DC hope this helps im still playing around. And feel free to ask any questions as to the hookup
Joe
Has anyone tried building the earth capacitor and had any luck with it compared to the earth battery? You take a copper pipe and wrap paper around it then wrap a coil of aluminum wire then paper then wire till you get up to 10 layers (you can also use an aluminum pipe and copper wire) says its pretty powerfull compared to the earth battery. I've begun work on one but figured I better check around to see if anyone else has done it as I'm using a 1" by 2 ' copper pipe and 10 gauge aluminum wire and winding it by hand and its taking me nigh on to two hours to wrap one layer, any input on this?
Quote from: MrSpates on January 24, 2008, 11:50:13 PM
Has anyone tried building the earth capacitor and had any luck with it compared to the earth battery? You take a copper pipe and wrap paper around it then wrap a coil of aluminum wire then paper then wire till you get up to 10 layers (you can also use an aluminum pipe and copper wire) says its pretty powerfull compared to the earth battery. I've begun work on one but figured I better check around to see if anyone else has done it as I'm using a 1" by 2 ' copper pipe and 10 gauge aluminum wire and winding it by hand and its taking me nigh on to two hours to wrap one layer, any input on this?
Sounds like it looks like tht stubblefield battery (the one with those many layers.)
How do you plan to connect it?
jeanna
The copper pipe is negative and the aluminum wrap is positive. You bury it in the ground in the vertical just like the earth battery. According to the instructions a full size one puts out around 89 vdc. Mines a medium size, so I'm hoping for 35-40 volts but would be happy with 12. Just wanted to know if anyone else had done it and had it work.
Quote from: MrSpates on January 25, 2008, 08:17:41 AM
The copper pipe is negative and the aluminum wrap is positive. You bury it in the ground in the vertical just like the earth battery. According to the instructions a full size one puts out around 89 vdc. Mines a medium size, so I'm hoping for 35-40 volts but would be happy with 12. Just wanted to know if anyone else had done it and had it work.
G'day MrSpates,
Could you please post those instructions you speak of so we can all have a look?
Thanks
Hans von Lieven
@Hans
Did you have a chance to try what i posted earlier for your led idea?
@ Hans
Link is on page 67 of this thread in Freezer Fulls reply to me on how to isolate earth batteries so they work in series. Many thanks to Freezer for directing me to it, theres a world of interesting stuff on that link.
its also right here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?
action=dlattach;topic=3500.0;attach=15689
My link isnt working as it should, best try the one on page 67
For those of you who wind coils, heres a link to a neat build it yourself coil winder made from an old microwave motor. Its strong cheap and easy to build and wood cones can be substituted for the metal fins.
http://solomonsmusic.net/coil_winder.html
Good morning y'all.
Sorry for my absence, I have been very busy, working on the OCAL Magnet Motor. But, because of a parts snafu, I have several days free, for other things, while I await the proper sized rotor.
@ Bill
I finally did get in my two magnesium blocks, but have had no time to test, and when I did, it has been raining.
@ Freezer, Mr. Spates and All
I read through the entire .PDF Freezer posted.
I think that it has a wonderful place to start and experiment, using a coil as a ground capacitor. I would suggest pages 12 through 14 and page 21. This is fairly easy to wind and has full instructions. If it works as said, then that is it.
I have reposted the .PDF for download below, for convenience.
Cheers all,
Bruce
@ Bruce:
Thanks for reposting Freezer's link. I guess I missed it the first time around. I downloaded it and it looks interesting if it is true. An order of magnitude improvement on my results appears possible with this set up. I suppose the north/south alignment is not required with this type of coil as it seems to be a self-contained unit in and of itself. 80 volts? With 10 of them 800 volts? I will re-read it but I don't recall seeing any amp readings. If there are any there, this could operate a lot of things. This is great, thanks Freezer and Bruce.
Bill
I'm pretty sure the article meant 0.89 volts, not 89 volts. I think the capacitor idea is a good idea to try as well. I read another story that said this guy built a wooden box, with layers of steel wool, sheets of foam, and two copper rods. He claims it put out 100's of volts, and thinks it works similar to a layden jar.
Here's some more related links.
http://www.geocities.com/tasosmit2001/electricity.htm
http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?isbn=0309036801&page=232
http://www.roymech.co.uk/Related/Electrics/electrostatics.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water-activated_battery
http://www.thelenchannel.com/1galv.php
http://www.smeter.net/grounds/soilskin.php
Carbon sticks
http://www.unitednuclear.com/chem.htm
@ Bill,
In the Stubblefield patent it shows the coil as wound in a conventional manner, except it uses one iron wire and one copper wire side by side instead of the usual single wire. This actually smacks very much of Tesla, since it was Tesla who was so interested in bi-filar arrangements. I think Stubblefield worked much more under Tesla's influence than is commonly believed. I think the whole Stubblefield thing were early experiments in "Radiant Energy" developed by the pair of them under the direction of Tesla.
Hans von Lieven
It is snowing today. Made me think of something.
Joe, do you still have your spike set up in the tree? In Vermont there is an expression called 'snow-eating fog' well not an expression, a kind of foggy day. It happens around now to mid Feb. and when it happens the maples give forth an abundance of their sweet juice. I would think that during the snow eating fog you would get some voltage. Just wondering. If you are still set up to check it when it happens.
jeanna
Sorry jenna .. i never had my spike in a tree, just near the roots. bill had one directly inn a tree tho. My stuff is burried at the end of my yard covered in snow so i will hope it holds up when i dig it out in spring. :)
Hello to everyone,
I've been lurking and studying patents for the last few day, weeks and have decided to try and wind a Stubblefield coil/battery. I got a 2 pound roll of .023 solid MIG wire from Harbor Freight. ($5.00) That works out to about 23 gauge according to Wikipedia. I've also got a 75' roll of 24 gauge magnet wire that has a insulating finish of some sort on it. Must be varnish or something like that. I'll wrap this on a 4" galvanized carrage bolt. I'll be using brown wrapping paper (from local butcher) to separate the windings. The plan is to follow the patent as closely as possible. I'll try and take as many pictures as possible as I go.
I think that it's finally going to quit raining at least for a while.
Does anyone know how deep Stubblefield buried his coils and if he used more than one if so were they oriented in any special way?
Sid
@sid10
Let us know how it works out, I'd be very interested myself. I thought about using MIG wire but figured it was too brittle for a small core. I'm on the 4.5 layer of my own where I'm wrapping a 1 inch by 2 ft. piece of copper pipe with 10 ga. aluminum wire from an electric fence, using plain brown shipping paper. I plan to wrap 10 layers. I'll try the aluminum wire by itself first then later I plan to try different kinds of wire. Have fun wrapping that thing, its slow going.
@MrSpates
I got the MIG wire at harbor freight, but saw reels of aluminum at Tractor Supply can't remember the price but was very reasonable. The MIG wire is anything but brittle I'll probably have to heat it to anneal it and make it less stiff this should also remove any coating it may have. Although it seem not to have any real coating. It rusts fairly quickly if left in the rain. I'll be using some .25" plexiglas as the end caps.
Sid
@ Hans:
Thank you for the explanation. The patent looks like it is just a single layer of windings, do you agree? Yes, I believe that Tesla and Stubblefield were more closely tied than most history books would have us believe.
@ Jeanna:
I tried the tree experiment after reading a post Joe put up about a new patent related to this. I used 9 galvanized nails placed about 1/4 inch deep into the tree and tied them together with stranded copper wire. From the tree, which was -, to the "ground" (+) I was getting about 1.25 volts dc. The nails are still in the tree and still wired. I have not done anything with that for a good while. There is a posted picture of that arrangement buried here somewhere.
@ Freezer:
Really? Man, I am disappointed. I thought it said like 89 vdc. Maybe a typo on their part then. Too bad. I was getting really excited.
@sid10:
I don't think he placed them very deep and as for orientation of the multiple cells, Hans put up some pictures and it does not appear that they are placed any special way. I guess only experimentation will tell. If they are operating as induction type coils, I can't see any reason n/s or any other arrangement would make and difference. Just my opinion though. good luck on your experiments.
@Mrspates:
Also, best of luck to you as well.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on January 28, 2008, 11:57:02 PM
@ Freezer:
Really? Man, I am disappointed. I thought it said like 89 vdc. Maybe a typo on their part then. Too bad. I was getting really excited.
Bill
That would've been nice to get 90 volts hehe, but that would be too easy. ;)
I added some plates in 3 planter pots, to the 3 cells I had in the ground, and am getting about 3.2 volts dc, and about 3mA. I mounted a blue led on a rod just to have it going as long as it lasts. Not much so far, but the cells add up much better when Isolated of course.
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg211.imageshack.us%2Fimg211%2F5231%2Fledlu3.jpg&hash=73c6eaef719a33ee05a071c72207c6fd289b353b)
Good going Freezer!
So, would you please be more specific? Like added 3 pots so a total of 4 in series? And the blue light. very nice. Blue wants more volts n amps, I think.
@Bill. I remember the picture, I forgot whose picture it was. I apologise. I don't think you get that snow eating fog that Joe will soon get. Maybe you will know when the sap is beginning. (It is a long time before any buds show up.)
@All I've been starting to think that those beer cans are the wound part of the battery that is the picture that Hans just reposted for us. The one with is it 5 rows of coiled wire with layers of cloth in between? Maybe not. I have seen the drawing looking very long. There is something about the drawing that looks just like the top part of those things with the globe and hemisphere 'resonators'.
jeanna
Quote from: jeanna on January 29, 2008, 01:00:54 AM
Good going Freezer!
So, would you please be more specific? Like added 3 pots so a total of 4 in series? And the blue light. very nice. Blue wants more volts n amps, I think.
jeanna
I have 3 regular cells in the dirt in series added to the ones in the 3 pots. The ones in the ground are zinc sheet rolled into a tube with graphite rods inside. Then I just stuck some zinc and carbon rods in pots. I think the more you add the less increase you get. I think to get 12 volts, you need about 25-30 isolated cells. I think you are right that the cool end of the led spectrum takes a little more that the warm color temperature leds. I think to at least get some usable lighting using leds, you need something like a 3-5 watt led. Thats gonna take quite a bit of milliamps.
Hi everyone,
I?d like to hereby submit a very small contribution that I consider it might lead to something.
A bit of intro for the beginning:
I?ve watched the general evolution of this thread and look forward. It happened that electrochemistry was at some point brought into discussion and some nice experiments were conducted by Jeanna on Al-NaCl-Ag battery. It also happened that a close friend of mine was asking for a little help in preparing her MSc graduation and final dissertation paper. The work is customary to be often only theoretical but I thought a little bit of practical hand-on approach can help.
To make the story short, in connection with free energy, I was also long having in mind digging on cheap batteries (recovered Al being one of promising candidates) and it was just the right conjecture to do something about.
Unfortunately, I don?t have access to a chemistry lab (I?m physicist) but fortunately after surprisingly few crude home-made experiments, I found what I consider is worthy to be eventually further explored. Here it is:
Starting from the concept of Al-air battery, I ended with an Al-NaOH-MnO2-Graphite battery.
NaOH was impure (taken from commercial chemicals) and it may contain some additives contributing to the outcome.
What I firstly found as relevant was an initial voltage in excess of 2V (2.1 and over, actually) which is high for a crude battery and quite promising as a start. Remember that Zn-carbon is having around 1.6V and not many batteries go close to 2V or beyond. Unfortunately the voltage was dropping in time. For the time being I can not say if voltage dropping can be countered but I guess it may be hope.
What I secondly found also very promising was a short circuit sustainable current of about 18mA. Al active surface was less than 6cm2 (quite small), height less than .5cm (all layers) and so a small total volume.
Overall power is not yet significant (several mW only) because voltage and current given above were not simultaneous (current was measured on short) but I could let the battery on short for 10+hrs and still find it delivering around 10mA (subject to fluctuations mainly due to mechanical vibration/movement and electrolyte evaporation) . After removing the short load (around 10ohm), the battery is quickly recovering to 1.3-1.4V which is also not very bad considering the chemical pollution with by-products, an issue that was not addressed.
During tests was easy to notice that there are some intriguing transients (observable at all times) both in voltage and current that indicate the setup has to be carefully clean out of un-desired mechanical factors and of chemical perturbations but from those transients and from the whole behavior I?d say it transpires that maybe there is room for great improvements.
Now, I?ll continue with some experiments but for the moment I have to take care of several real-life issues. Tests are messy (that?s for sure, if anyone asks) and beyond some point it will probably need a lab. I wonder if someone would be interested.
Cheers,
Tinu
P.S. Sorry for interfering into the middle of Stubblefield discussion.
I was curious as to wheather the earth capacitor would really work as claimed 89v from 5 windings on a 7 inch core, so I wrote the company and asked. This was the reply I got:
In reply to the e-mail you sent us below...
Thank you so much for bringing this to our attention. It has been many years since I have worked on this project. I have discovered many odd
and amazing things that work, but should not. I can not remember the 5 layer earth cap outputing 89 vdc, I am sure this is a typo error.
It no dougbt is about 1 volt or less. I do remember making something very similar to this with many layers and the voltage went very high.
I did not make notes of what I did and forgot, I since then have been trying to figure out what it was I did do get me so high of a voltage
and amperage rating. I am sure it was not the 5 layer method. I did something differant to the coils and layers?? I wish I could remember,
I can not believe I was so busy I did not make notes.
Thank you
David Waggoner
Research and Development
@MrSpates,
Thank you for writing that letter.
I am disappointed in the contents of the answer, but I am glad for the honesty.
It now becomes believable (in light of our own research here.)
nap time the co op was long today :D
jeanna
Great work freezer !
Progress is being made more and more. I insist this line of testing continued along with the inductive coil avenue because i feel in the end we may find a working device with the combination of the two :)Maybe not but ya never know
A few questions if you dont mind
1)What were the readings without isolation
2)did you try a series couple chain meaning positive terminal + copper no wire connecting zinc wire connecting copper no wire connected zinc --
3) have you attached a capicator of any kind to test the rise time or how long it takes to charge
4)Do you have a joule thief and or could you make one to see how many led's it could drive from this / A disposable camera flash circuit may be easier to get your hands on and thats a real nice boost circuit.
Joe
Quote from: Localjoe on January 29, 2008, 10:09:59 PM
Each of the cells puts out about .80 volts/ 1mA. I did have to raise the pot off the ground cause they were shorting from the hole in the bottom of the pot. If they weren't isolated it would raise the voltage about .2 to .3. With it being isolated the voltage would raise .3 to .5. I think as I added more, I didn't get as big of an increase. That might have something to do with the current I guess.
I don't have a joule thief, but probably have some stuff to make one lying around. I do have some capacitors to try as well. The 3 cells in the ground alone would put out about 1.3 volts/5mA. So as I added more to up the voltage the current went down. The whole thing puts out 3.2vdc, and 7.1vac at 3mA. I was thinking about digging up 2 of the 3 cells and just leave one in the ground, and put the others in pots to optimize the power. I didn't try the series couple chain, is that like a voltaic pile?
@ Freezer:
Well done! That is a beautiful blue light you have there. I love to see light that is powered for FREE!!!!!! We are moving in the correct direction I believe. There is a lot of great input by everyone here and I know we will do something great. I hope to get back to the experiments soon. I miss it.
Bill
@ All
Im still at a loss with the ac readings... why is there an extra volt. I mean if we have 3v dc a meter could be fooled and think 6v ac but not 7v ac. Does anyone have any clue to this phenomenon, this has happened with everyones meters so im starting to think its not an error.
@ Joe and mramos:
When I first encountered the "ac" reading on the digital meter I asked my Dad about it. He gave me a great suggestion. He said to take a AA battery and take readings on it, so I did. 1.5 vdc and 2.4 ac! I am not saying we don't have a pulsed dc or an ac component on our earth batteries but this told me that what I have read about digital meters seems to be correct. Try it for yourselves and see if I am correct. I think I tried this with my analog meter but to be honest, I don't recall the results. I will test it again and report back. Hope this helps. PS This assumes that there should be no ac reading on an AA battery which I believe is correct.
Bill
@mramos
:( I use to have a fluke to play with at my old job.... there network testers are also awesome. Anyways freezers setup had isolation through flower pots and that seemed to allow for a greater voltage effect otherwise there was a short undergound. But he has to have more than 3ma of current .. look at that blue led kinda bright. Once my weather clears up a few months or so i will be able to go finish my own initial tests to confirm things. Also as we have learned in other threads electrical isolation in respect to ground can be achieved through using relative grounds and separating the circuits . Look at the single wire exp thread and take for instance the ground as a conductor for this example.
We could have a battery wired in series with just two ground terminals one of the ground terminals the copper positive one connects directly to load the zinc spike say 10 feet away is connected to the batteries positive and the - on the battery is connected to the load. After my initial tests i determined that the ground could work as a leg of a circuit in that sense. Not very well but i repeated the same test with a complete second set of the first experiment approx 10 feet away from the first setup and got the same results still on both. So assuming they operated independently from each other, as long as each set of zinc and copper had a relative ground the distance between them and there placement shouldn't matter. Im guessing that a polarized cap might do the trick for each set and then some how discharge them in series into a transformer. The quicker the better so small caps would need to be used. Those are my latest thoughts.
Joe
@ All
This was easy enough to check, don't understand why but I get readings both ways.
Sorry about the size I'll figure it out sooner or later.
Sid
only one loaded last time
@ sid10:
Great job!! That is exactly what I observed. I just checked again tonight with my analog meter and got the same results. (On a D cell bat.) This is why it is so confusing to me. Does this mean the meters are wrong? Or, does it mean there is an AC component on DC? I read what mramos said and he has better equipment, scopes, many meters, etc. to check with. I am glad I am not the only one seeing these results. Thanks for posting this. Nice pictures by the way.
Bill
Has anybody ever tried charging the ground first perhaps with something like a high voltage generator? I read somewhere, I think it was something Stubblefield did where he charged the ground and it acted like a siphon for his earth batteries after the charger was turned off. I don't have a high voltage generator to try it with but would be worth looking into.
@ MrSpates:
I have read that also. I "charged" my cell with a nine volt battery for about 10 seconds and got some interesting results. Everything went up, for a while. (vdc, mA) When I told an electronics friend of mine, he said that the "charge" should have been dissipated to the "ground" right away. I found that, yes it does slowly go away but, it remains for a lot longer than discharging to ground. The higher readings lasted about 5 minutes or so. My friend said that this should not happen. I have documented this here before and I am not sure what it is telling us, but, I think it means something. This was a nine volt (old) battery I had lying around and somehow, the earth/cell stored the energy for a bit. This needs to be explored more by others I think.
Bill
Well, I don't have battery results but in my metals class tonight I made almost one horseshoe for the 2 horseshoe magnet set up. (is it Moray? I forgot who ;D, ) When they are shaped I will magnetize them so they're ready for tests come spring.
jeanna
@ mramos:
Yes, my little meter (digital) only has 2 ac settings, 600 and 200 volts. I have tested my finger tips with the volts setting and got a few millivolts from them, but did not ever check ac. I still have a blown fuse and it is hard to find the correct one in this town. No one seems to carry the small ones here. Years ago, while working in my Dad's machine shop, I tested my fingertips with his Fluke meter and also got millivolts. We tested my Dad, and my brothers as well as several employees but no one else registered any millivolts except me. Possibly my skin is more acid or something, who knows. In an earlier post, you asked for a diagram. A diagram of what? My earth cell? Just tell me what you would like and I will attempt to get it to you.
This digital meter was like $50 US. How much money is a good one? I really wish I had a scope. I have seen small, hand held scopes in some catalogs for about $200. They were about the size of my DMM. Would they be any good at that price?
Bill
GOOD NEWS ;D
I Built a mini replica of the stubblefeild coil tonight , i'll call it stage one .
I took a 12 inch zinc screw and insulated it with a peice of cotton fabric from some old garden gloves then taped the top so there was still a little metal exposed. Second i took approx 3 feet of iron bailing wire and insulated it the same way wrapping the cotton fabric around it the whole length. Third i took a 3 foot peice of bare copper romex 12 or 14 gauge not sure i wound those two wires with the copper on the inside and the iron on the outside in a bifilar wind all the way down the screw and back up it partially. I think a key is to insulate the copper from itself each layer of windings not just for the indivudal wraps tho. So The results , in plain tap water because that is all i have to work with it gets approx .8 to .9 volts and about 10 to 16 ma of current in a dead short... Now this is a small little rinky dink thing that is probably shorting the copper on itself between winds and thats a nice result for power i think. This could be scaled up huge and i dont even have the secondary wind on this just the bimetal couple now the wires all 4 leads 2 each are open not connected in series or parallel i have 2 leads one of each hooked to a meter and the other two in free air . Questions please folks as i would like someone with soil to try this ;D ;D ;D I also tried a similar exp, where i insulated a 12 inch zinc screw with fabric as before and wound just bare copper over it, say a foot and a half peice. now this resulted in the same voltage readings positive to copper lead and neg to exposed screw in air but only had a meager 3 to 4 ma that dropped down quick. Food for thought folks.
Joe
@mramos
yes all of that is right i had both leads from each wire exposed at the top insulated from one another with tape just for the top. how i held it all on the screw. now the copper wasent insulated just the bailing wire and the zinc screw .. note after i got a complete layer done meaning from the top to the bottom. i should have put another piece of cloth over the whole layer, and then continued to wind my second layer on top of that, i didn't i just tried to make sure my copper didn't touch tat of the first layer and i suspect some did and some didn't. When i said cotton i mean fabric like cheap cloth i used cut up old white garden gloves that have the stretchy blue wrist thing. cut the blue nylon off and the proceeded to cut strips of the fabric.. i did this the hard way im sure you can find some thing fabric or whatever else you think would be good for the electrolyte to pass through easily. Water being my electrolyte. The readings once again were from one lead of the copper wich is positive and one lead of the steel as negative no connection to the center screw other than the common electrolyte, The remainig two leads were in mid air. i'll be glad to answer any thing else i can. Thanks so much for your interest and help.
Joe
@ localjoe
1. i wound those two wires with the copper on the inside and the iron on the outside in a bifilar wind all the way
2. I think a key is to insulate the copper from itself each layer of windings not just for the indivudal wraps tho. So The results , in plain tap water because
I didnt understand these two: Number 1 Are you saying you wound them on top of each other or side by side together?
And number 2 what are you saying an individual wrap is compared to a layer? Are you saying it might be better to use insulated copper wire?
Great work though.
@MrSpates
I wound them counter clockwise with the copper as the inner wire and the iron as the outer wire
Only insulate the iron wire with fabric and the screw/bolt
Once you were to get all the way from top to bottom winding im calling that a layer
and at this point is where i would take a piece of fabric and wrap only one thin layer around all of that layer
then continue winding the wire from the bottom to the top creating a second layer. I feel it imparitive that the only type of insulation used for cell is fabric or something comparable to that so the water can permeate it easily.
I used electrical tape at the top to secure my leads to the bolt while insulating them at the same time.
*** the two wires never touch throughout the whole coil *** just side by side with the iron insulated from the copper
***copper is bare and that is important as well***
hope this helps
Joe
Gj Joe, 10-16mA sounds pretty good. Can you take a photo of your windings?
@freezer,
I'll make an attempt with my cell phone in a little bit. I had the novel idea to hook it up to my joule theif and its lighting an led not real bright but enough.
Joe
Edit: Pics tomorrow its getting late and im getting to bed
@ Joe:
Excellent!!! The materials are what Stubblefield used except I think he used an iron core but your mA readings are very promising. Since this is an isolated cell, I am sure these can be wired in series in the ground. Fantastic! I am awaiting the photos with great anticipation. I am not sure from your description what happens to the 4 ends of the wires. (2 copper, 2 iron) I know you said you had two of the ends at the top, but what about the other ends? Are they tied together? This is the one thing I could never figure out on his patent drawings. Mad Dog and I are still going to Murry although I am not sure when. Things have been crazy here. If your cell phone does not give good detail, might you produce a drawing? Does not have to be pretty, we will get the idea. In my experiments, the ground gives much better readings than in water so, I think we will see some wonderful readings from your design outside. Great work Joe!!
Bill
@ bill
Im about to go to bed and i dont want to go back to the bat cave for photos. But the wires are not connected in series! one iron one copper in mid air not in water and one iron and one copper connected to the multimeter . I tried both sides so to say and they gave the same reading. just make sure the free ends are not touching. ;D
Joe
To all
These two sights always have really great deals and cool stuff i think this is like kbtoys for people like us .. take the time to check it out they have led's for dirt cheap i got a 50 pack for under 5 bucks
check out the gold packs section ;D enjoy ;D http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/default.asp (http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/default.asp) http://www.surplusshed.com/ (http://www.surplusshed.com/)
Joe
This is a great thread, it gives me all kinds of ideas. I'm still wondering what will happen if you charge the ground. While I don't have a high voltage generator, I do have a 50 amp boost battery charger, so one day soon when the weather gets better I'm going to hook it up to my 1.3 volt cell and see what happens. On that line of thinking I wonder what would happen if you were to seed the ground with some conductive material, small plates of copper or aluminum or even metallic dust? Didn't Stubblefield use Copper sulfate in the ground to amplify his batteries? This also brings to mind the earth itself as a capacitor with the earth being negative, Space being positive and the atmosphere being the dielectric. We are on the negative side, so what we need is a way to draw the positive from the air and a dielectric compatible with both sides. I'd like to try to build a bunch of small capacitors with copper on the bottom, mica in the middle, and aluminum on top and bury these around the cell. You can see I'm still interested in Tesla's radiant energy collector and I feel if he did it someone (or one of us) should be able to crack the secret one day.
@ Joe:
No, I meant that we COULD wire them to a load in series outside, like Stubblefield did. Because they are stand alone electrodes/cells. Thanks for the wire end explanation. I have got to try this!!! That is a record for us for mA output I believe.
Bill
I want to post this before everyone closes off for the night.
This was just the control.
Remember that iron stake I wrapped bifilar style? I wrapped it with an uninsulated piece of iron wire and an insulated piece of copper wire. Mostly just cuz it is what I had. Now I am not finished with that thing but in case I do take it apart I wanted to check out some indoors things.
First of all the battery is 2 AAA reading 2.58vdc.
So, on the dry kitchen table I hooked the unjoined iron piece to the neg side of a battery and the pos to the copper wire and left the joined iron/copper wire hanging. Between the battery terminals I read 1.26vdc which is half of the battery. OK but then I read between the joined wire and the copper wire and I get 0.53vdc which is 20% of what is in the battery.
Then I hook the joined fe/cu wires to the neg of the battery and leaving the Fe open I hooked the copper to the pos side and got 0.89vdc
then reversed and left the copper hanging and read the iron at the pos and I read 1.06vdc.
Someone recently made a good case for why I don't get vac readings so nevermind the scale is the problem. Thanks for that!
This is so amazing there are parts of this circuit that are hanging and there is no water but there is a bunch of juice going through. - around 33% to 41% And the battery did not short and drain or anything.
Good night joe. ;D
jeanna
sorry for all the edits. haste, you know :'(
nevermind
Jenna remember that insulation to them in the old days was cloth while insulation to us is plastic... im using fabric/cloth just a note :)
Quote from: Localjoe on February 01, 2008, 10:16:18 AM
Jenna remember that insulation to them in the old days was cloth while insulation to us is plastic... im using fabric/cloth just a note :)
Yes, thank you. I have been thinking about the fabric idea. I didn't realize or think that the old insulation was fabric.
Fabric has a lot of holes. so it gives distance. And from the atom size point of view the space created by the cloth is a very large electrolyte-filled container. (scale thing again). So, the charges are free to move from one metal to the other in a big way yet still not touch. This means that the old style materials may be very important to follow.
I plan a trip to the hardware store today.
I am first gonna post a picture of that spike. It has some details that I think are important to us.
jeanna
Notice that the 2 wires are in series. the iron (red) is uninsulated and the copper (green) is insulated with plastic. I got some readings from various spots on this wire that were LESS than the input voltage. Particularly at that midpoint where the 2 wires join.
Here is the drawing:
Yes, I believe Stubblefield used cotton insulation of some kind.
@ Joe:
I am still not clear on how you insulated the wires from each other. I understand the initial wrap around the core. Then, when winding the bifilar arrangement, which to me is placing both wires side by side and winding, how do you use the cotton material to separate the copper from the iron wire? Do you place the cotton in between as you wind it? Or, did you say you wrap the copper wire with cotton before winding? I think this is all I need to know before having a go at it. Bailing wire is iron? I took a magnet to the hardware store and they pointed out some "iron" wire to me on the shelf. Funny thing is, the magnet was not attracted to the wire at all so to me that means it was some other sort of metal. If I am not mistaken the old BX cable used cotton insulation for the wires. (Before it was replaced with ROMEX) Possibly I could find some of that somewhere. Sorry for all of the questions Joe but you just made a big leap for us here and I want to understand how to replicate it. Thanks.
Bill
G'day all,
On the wire debate, here are my 2 cents worth.
Having examined and repaired in the course of my career a number of devices from the Stubblefield era, the most common insulation for copper wires was spun silk. I believe you can still buy this, it is called litz wire these days though I believe they are all multistrand now, which shouldn't matter.
Rather than using such hard to get stuff or trying to make your own, let us examine what we are trying to do here. What you want to do is to prevent the two metal wires touching each other while allowing the electrolyte to circulate. In the individual layers this is not a problem since you can wrap a piece of cotton material between the layers. the real problem is how to keep the tightly wound wires from touching each other while they are lying side by side.
My suggestion is to put a nylon fishing line between them. so you have in your layer copper-nylon-iron-nylon-copper and so forth. This way the wires don't touch, yet your electrolyte can circulate. It is easy to do and it will work.
Hans von Lieven
@Hans
Yes i guess it should work, but with the gauge wire im using the nylon might be hard to use. Main concept is an insulation for only the bolt and the iron wire. use someting like cloth, silk, fabric, old garden gloves, white tee shirt cut up. I taped mine in lengths piece by piece directly on the iron wire, with a little electrical tape at each joint. Im trying to get pics here but for each one i send from my phone its 35 cents and ive got like 7 .. no transflash adapter errrrr im working on it.
Joe
Quote from: hansvonlieven on February 01, 2008, 12:53:38 PM
the most common insulation for copper wires was spun silk. I believe you can still buy this, it is called litz wire
Hans von Lieven
Hans,
Did you ever ACTUALLY SEE the spun silk. It sounds like not cloth to me. hard to say, language changes so much.
Nylon is probably a good substitute for silk. silk is a protein and nylon is polyamide made to be structurally like a protein fiber. They would be closer than cotton is to either. I think they would allow the passage of electrolyte similarly. (Cellulose would work but differently, I'm sure.)
jeanna
@ Hans:
Thanks for the nylon line information, good idea. I have one thought perhaps.....when you place a non-conductor (fishing line) between 2 conductors (copper and iron wire) would you not in effect have a capacitor? I wonder if this plays any part in the way it works? Perhaps Stubblefields coils (using his cotton or whatever) were not only working by induction but also as a capacitor as well? Just a thought. Off to locate some iron wire.
Bill
Quote from: jeanna on February 01, 2008, 02:11:31 PM
Hans,
Did you ever ACTUALLY SEE the spun silk. It sounds like not cloth to me. hard to say, language changes so much.
Nylon is probably a good substitute for silk. silk is a protein and nylon is polyamide made to be structurally like a protein fiber. They would be closer than cotton is to either. I think they would allow the passage of electrolyte similarly. (Cellulose would work but differently, I'm sure.)
jeanna
Yes, I have handled wires like this many times, you could still buy silk spun wire in the 1950's. It was often used in RF coils for detector circuits and the like.
Hans von Lieven
@ Jenna Bill Hans Freezer Mramos or anyone else following closley with us
I was wrong in my design after re reading the patent the copper wire needs the cloth insulation along with the central bolt. Repeat the copper needs the cloth insulation, it can be on the iron too but the iron wire should be bare
Secondly
NOTE WELL .. the patent clearly states Cloth as the insulation material here is a screen cap from it
@Joe,
Thank you. I was just looking all over my comp for that reference. :D
@Hans,
I wanted to ask you for a description of this spun silk. I am going to use silk from a pulled apart silk cocoon I just happen to have. ;D so, it won't matter, but I wondered if this spun silk as you saw it was orderly like cloth and wound around the wire like the modern litz wire probably is (I only saw a pic on the net) or a sort of disorderly matrix of fiber. (the modern equivalent would look like 'remay', if you know what that is.)
I have it all here, I think, so I am off to the kitchen to make this.
Fe-silk-Fe-/-silkCuSilk hmm may take a while. :D
jeanna
@jenna
You dont have any old white t shirts that are rags you could use...?
@ Joe:
Good info. Wrap the core and then the copper copper wire, leave iron wire bare.
Bill
@bill
Yup :) Once you get from the top to the bottom them put a layer of cloth over that whole bifialar layer we could call it , then continue wrapping back up the pole. That way the iron doesent touch itself from the first layer of wire windings.
Quote from: Localjoe on February 01, 2008, 01:57:20 PM
Im trying to get pics here but for each one i send from my phone its 35 cents and ive got like 7 .. no transflash adapter errrrr im working on it.
Joe
You might want to try this. I think its free, although I haven't tried it yet.
http://tutorials.photobucket.com/tutorial_6.html
@freezer
Thanks .. I know i could do that i could use pix place too .. im just stubborn and cant find the little sd adapter for my micro sd/transflash memory card. i broke down and sent 3 of them to my own e-mail once im done eating im going to scale them down from the 1600/1200 and post them.
*****@ALL If everyone could do me a favor and have the patent handy theres a VERY important part i would like us to all dicuss and be on the same page with. I didnt realize what it was acctual saying until li read it 9 times so i want to make this easy and just explain my new found discovery.
OK Joe, I got the patent out and printed so I can leaf through it easily.
I think I will go take a dry reading then a wet reading before we start. My coils are too far apart to have the effect he describes. I will rewind after I take these readings.
jeanna
Thanks jenna
Here are the pics i took the first is the little joule theif i built followed by a top view then a side
For anyone that doesent have the patent or wants one that they can do word searches with here it is in "searchable pdf format" meaning you can select text and search for words numbers ect
Thanks Joe, you read my mind. Since I switched to Firefox for my browser a few weeks ago, I lost a good many of my bookmarks and links. I just got back from the home supply store. (Lowes) I got 2 more zinc coated iron spikes 12" long, 55 cents ea. and 100 feet of iron fence wire that my magnet is attracted to. That's all I needed, I believe I have everything else. Time to go to work.
Bill
@ All
lines 62-85 Of the patent are the most important part to understand i feel after the construction is completed. Unless you read this section very carefully its easy to pass over a few key points.
He described physically 2 configurations of his device
1) ***practically*** a self-generating induction-coil- practically is the part i will get to in a moment - practically meaning almost!
I cant believe i finally figured this freakin patent out this was defiantly hidden in a way so the normal person would pass over.
in lines 63-75
The magnetic field produced by the current traversing the coil-body 4**(the inner bifiliar wind) induces a secondary current in the solenoid or secondary coil 12,
when the ordinary make and break of the primary current produced within the coil 4 is made between the terminals of said coil 4. It will therefore be seen that the construction
of the battery illustrated in Fig. 4 is practically a self-generating induction-coil..
In english We need a mechanical spark gap driven by a small dc motor or something that will accomplish the same task of mechanically doing this task as quoted "When the ordinary make and break of the primary current produced within the coil 4 is made between the terminals of said coil 4" It will therefore be seen that the construction
of the battery illustrated in Fig. 4 is practically a self-generating induction-coil.. THAT IS WHAT THE PRACTICALLY IS.. Something that makes and breaks the connection with the primary therefor inducing a secondary current in outer secondary wind...
So what this patent says is you can have a self generating induction coil as long as you preform the normal make and break of the primary terminals DUH..
2) a self-sustaining electromagnet
Lines 76 -86
It will also be obvious that by reason
of the magnetic inductive properties of
the coil-body 4 the core-piece 1 will necessarily
be magnetized while a current is going
through the body 4, so that the battery
may be used as a self-generating electromagnet,
if so desired, it being- observed that to secure
this. result is simply required connecting
the extended terminals of the wires 5 and
6 together after wetting or dampening the
coil-body.
This makes sense this version is how the wireless phone worked .. yay two for 1 yay anyways the difference is this one has one set of copper and iron wires from the inner coil shorted so as to make this an electromagnet. When you connect a microphone to the secondary wires or a telephonic relay ... it will transmit .. this must be the base station model..
Lines 58 -62
***the solenoid or secondary coil may be connected up with any instrument usually operated by secondary
currents?such, for instance, as a microphone
transmitter or telegraphic relay.***
This Is describing the latter invention the Self Sustaining Electromagnet
Now hopefully everyone sees how clever he was when he hid how to make it a self generating induction coil.. within the instructions for the base station transmitter...sneaky sneaky
It took a while because the workings of the two separate inventions are not in order when you read the patent and are mixed up.. weird.. classic tesla :)
Please respond and tell me what you think folks
@ Joe:
Excellent deduction there. I never would have seen it. If you are correct, and I believe that you are, then could we not use something Stubblefield did not have at that time to "make and break" the current such as an ic timer or other such electronic device? A motor or something mechanical yes, but we could go for the solid state approach could we not? Your find here changes everything. Great work. I would like to see what Hans thinks about this also.
Bill
@Bill i made few edits so make sure to re read the end its important :)
Very good, Joe,
I do think this is the key. This is why I need to remake mine with lots of good windings.
Why don't you think the pulses of earth's currents are what is giving the make and break. If there is no inherent reason for this to be in the earth and not just moist in a room somewhere, then why is it called an earth battery? I mean what is the earth providing if not this make and break? He says you can put it in a jar. but if you did, then YOU would have to provide the make and beak?
Didn't people say these batteries worked long after they had been abandoned?
good work, joe.
jeanna
PS
So, Joe and Bill,
Is there a reason you are using zinc and not the iron that stubblefield describes?
@jenna
zinc was all i had handy
Now listen close :) And think like a detective ... half the point of that whole thing I typed was so everyone understands why he used the words "Practically Self Generating Induction coil"
One thinks to themselves.. practically what the heck is that suspost to mean practically.. The prior sentace explains
"When the ordinary make and break of the
primary current produced within the coil 4 is
made between the terminals of said coil 4. It (one iron one copper terminal)
will therefore be seen that the construction
of the battery illustrated in Fig. 4 is practically ****(Figure 4 Sows the battery with all terminals open not shorted)*****
a self-generating induction-coil
So in response to this speifically
"Why don't you think the pulses of earth's currents are what is giving the make and break. If there is no inherent reason for this to be in the earth and not just moist in a room somewhere, then why is it called an earth battery? I mean what is the earth providing if not this make and break?"
I say this- WHEN you make or preform the ordinary make and break of primary - when imply's that its an action that is preformed
So when you do that you can see in figure 4 ***look at it*** all the wires are open that it is **practically** a self generating induction coil because there is no apparatus or person shown makeing and breaking the connection :) hopefully you agree now
Note well Nathan did not want to call his patent earth battery ... it was suspost to be a means for a self generating induction coil .. this is touched on somewhere on bedini's page So that should answer your second question too :)
As far as why is it in the earth .. we can call that variable x .. bill will agree that theres something else there we cant explain and hopefully this config will let us capture it.
Im pumped this is all fitting into place
@ Joe:
I re-read your post. It is all there all right. Still, I never would have caught that.
@Jeanna:
I am using the zinc coated spikes (galvanized) for several reasons. They are readily available and cheap. I used my magnet in the store when sampling materials and my magnet is very strongly attracted to these spikes, much more so than their "iron" rods which were about $10 ea. as opposed to 50 cents. So, I believe there is plenty of iron in the zinc coated spikes. also, zinc is further away from copper on the galvanic chart than is iron. The bigger difference helped in my earlier experiments so, I figured it could not hurt to try it again. If you can find real iron somewhere locally, then you might want to go with that. I found the same with "iron wire" I tried to buy the other day. It pays to place a magnet in your pocket, which is what I did. the first iron wire was obviously made from some other material as it was not magnetically attracted in the least. The wire I purchased today was. Hope this explains my reasoning.
Bill
OK so,it is not necessary to add something to make and break. I thought you were saying this needed to be added.
I see the word practically meaning 'practically speaking' not 'almost'. I wasn't sure how you were taking that meaning.
I see make and break as a sort of forward and backward pulse- "ac" before the term was widely used -across the wire.
Electrodes 10 sticking up in the patent may be attached to the wires that go down into the earth in the picture because they are the ones that "preserve the character of the wires as the electrodes of the voltaic couple". (Lines 18-20 p2)
I didn't get much for volts in my spike in the kitchen an hour ago, but it sure did go up and down from 0.035 pos to 0.035 neg. so there is a pulse going on.
I guess we just gotta build them to find out.
I am sure if you want to add something of your own doing, it will work; probably be stronger.
I am so glad you brought this all up. I never noticed the 2 part nature of the thing. I never read it really thoroughly.
Thank you.
@Bill,yes, it does. I will try the magnet thing with my wire. the spikes are pretty good and 39c so they must be just plain soft iron. :D
This is sooo cool
jeanna
@ Jenna .. I hope im not speaking greek
IM saying we do i repeat do need something to preform the make and break... thats what the patent wants you to infer on your own .. Thats the whole clever part
@all
The negative terminal of my battery is the spike. I get the best reading fluctuating between 0.100vdc and -0.066vdc between the twisted lower wires and the spike while leaving the 2 top wires (10) untouched. In fact I get nothing between those 2. I must touch the spike.
And this a really bad looking winding.
jeanna
PS OK I hear you, Joe
Hey Joe,
There isn't anybody in this farming community that can tell me what a ferrite bead is. Even the radio shack folks just look blank at me. ugh.
From what mramos said it isn't magnetic. It must be just iron??
So, could I use a hex nut? It is iron with a zinc coating so that should be OK and the little edges don't stick out too much. I'm hoping???
jeanna
@jenna
So do you have any bailing wire/iron wire you could wrap with this and insulate the copper from it via cloth?
The iron wire in that case would be your negative electrode there should be no connection to the center bolt/screw.. although that will yeild a reduced figure if bolt is used as neg, not how he intended. still cool tho ;)
@All
**The play between the copper and iron wires surrounding the iron core is what produces the effect.. every time i touch my amp meter to it at first it reads between 16- 20 ma... awsome .. but it goes down quick... note well when i take my grnd lead of my meter and touch it on and off on and off of the steel wire it shows the strong 16- 20 reading each time ... so i can see how a spark gap driven by other means could repeat this process much much faster and in turn we would then take the power of the single wire that is called the secondary wrapped around this whole cell #4 which is recieving the flux from the mechanical pulsing of the primary.. . im thinking the rate at which the spark gap fires the circuit will be the freq of the secondary current, call it pulsed dc or ac at that point. thats what were going for. And im sure that certain freq/speeds of the gap will yeild far better results in our secondary so lots to play with folks once we get there.
@ Jeanna:
From my ceramic machining days.......ferrite is fe2O3, iron oxide. This is much different than iron. We machined many different ferrite configurations for waves guides. (microwaves) To me, a ferrite bead is like you would find on a circuit board in a toroid shape with copper wrapped around it. I have salvaged several of those while taking apart no longer needed electronics stuff here. Maybe the electronics guys here can set you straight but, I am sure about the first part, but guessing on the second.
@ Joe:
When Hans was telling me about the old points used on cars for the spark with the coil, he said that now they use the computer which makes use of an ic, I think he said 555, to "make and break" the circuit so the volts can be stepped up by the ignition coil. Do you think this might be an option for us? This is what I meant when I said a long time ago that we have stuff available to us that Tesla and Stubblefield did not have. Otherwise, we could use something mechanical which, from your analysis, is most likely what Stubblefield used. I am working on my coil as we speak. I have plenty of old cotton socks I am cutting up. I am not going to concern myself with the secondary coil.....yet. Self-inducting coil. Gee, that almost sounds like over unity does it not? I also agree now that you have made the patent information clear to me, that Tesla's fingerprints are all over this. I truly believe that he and Stubblefield were much more than just acquaintances. Hans has alluded to this many times also.
Bill
This is just the beginning of something big, I can feel it.
@Bill
A 555 might work but remember the description of a blue corona coming off of the secondary wires.... Im thinking that a Physical make and break might be needed for at least inital tests i could be wrong but easier to start the old fashioned way and work up. Electro statics and other fields sometimes have laws of their own which make semiconductor components useless when trying to achieve a desired effect sometimes. But i would say try both in the end.
This is looking more and more like a little Tesla coil....Thoughts folks
In essence we would be synchronously discharging an inductive capacitor(the earth battery) into its own primary bifilar coil. which would create a large current in the secondary amazing ..
To all
I just got through reading bedini's whole page... even he didnt understand there were two seperate devices... amazing ... i feel like i deserve gold star..
On bedini's page it says
In addition to this bimetallic winding, there is a third winding: the "secondary". This third coil is insulated from the primary bimetallic coil, serving as a trigger device. Presumably, a stimulating impulse shock was introduced into the tertiary coil, after which the upwelling electrical ground response brought forth powerful currents in both iron and copper coils.....
This is completely wrong he mis understood the patent .. because later he writes..
Furthermore, though the Stubblefield power receiver is wound like an induction coil, it produces a steady direct current output. This poses additional problems for the conventional engineer. Electrical induction only occurs with electrical alternations, oscillations, and impulses.
Poor guy answered his own questions... we provide the oscillations in the primary and the power comes out the secondary ..... not visa versa.. what was he thinking.. That dis info must have made it to 20 other pages and people took that to be true without reading the patent... shame on him.
what he does bring up that is very important but not entirely true because we know Tesla and Stubblefield worked together at some point is
Stubblefield may have discovered the auto-magnifying voltage effect of electrostatic induction in coils before Tesla, who later utilized the effect in his special electrostatic Transformers.
hence the real accounts of intense surges after a rain storm......
@ Joe:
I think everyone missed it except you. You should be proud of yourself!! Hans suggested early on that Stubblefield did not reveal all in his patent, and, as it turns out, he did not. You put it together. Nice going there.
My spike is now covered completely with cotton. I cut a strip and stitched it together with cotton thread. No metal is exposed. Now come the decision time. I have some .062 dia. nylon cable (think thick fishing line) and I like Hans's idea. But, what if it makes a difference to have the cotton in between which would hold some moisture? I was just now thinking that I could use cotton thread. I could wrap the copper wire with it as I go. (barber pole style) This would take a long time but might be worth the extra effort. Any thoughts on this before I commit? I thought about trying to use my cotton material but I don't see a good way to do it. My material is pretty thick (socks) and I am not sure if I could make it work to wrap the copper wire with it. Also, I guess I could use the nylon line and later, go over that part with the cotton thread. Best of both worlds maybe? I opened another beer and am ready to wind.
Anyone who has any thoughts on this please let me know soon. Thanks.
Great job Joe!!!!
Bill
@ Bill
I did the same barber pole wind accept my strips of fabric were about an inch and a half wide and say 10 inches long i should have used something much longer so i didnt have to tape as many joints but i would recommend using long narrow pieces of fabric barber pole style :) Just tape your first peice down about 3 inches o the copper to leave a little for the top and start twisting that fabric around the copper. once done secure at other end with tape. after youve insulated it by itself take the top of the wire where you taped it initally and put more tape over that joint and put the iron wire next to it so as to secure them together.. once done with that secure that joint to the bolt on a part covered in fabric remember nothing touches.. then you can wind it around the bolt much easier and not have the top be all flimsy and have to hold it.. you have the general idea tho dont worry about the thickness for now . i got by with garden glove fabric and it still worked looks liek a wad of mess... but she worked just remember once you get a whole layer done meaning top to bottom to insulate that from the second layer of wrappings and third if ya get that far.. i only had one and half layers... not much at all so anyones is probably going to be better than mine... i just wanted to test the principal once i got it.
@ Joe:
I understand. Will do. I was thinking that since this is basically a primary winding, is it more important to have many layers? Or, are we just dealing with the total length of the wire would would translate into surface area? I think I have enough materials for two layers over 10". My spike is 12" long but I saved a little at the top end for connections if needed. This is great Joe, We will see what happens.
Bill
@Bill
Yes eventually after our first test models , many many winds on the primary would proportionally produce a much greater secondary current to a point. Not sure of the curve yet but i do know the speed we run the spark gap or interrupter at is going to have to be tuned to rpm's so folks in the group can replicate easily . Eg When we find our peak output on the secondary we coorliate that speed to freq and will be able to do equations to find our potential results. This will make the later stages go much easier.
@joe, I have all the ingredients. So, what is wrong with silk? It is kinda nice to have an excuse to touch it. ;D
Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 01, 2008, 08:08:56 PM
From my ceramic machining days.......ferrite is fe2O3, iron oxide. a ferrite bead is like you would find on a circuit board in a toroid shape with copper wrapped around it.
Thank you for this info. I bought some tiny chokes in my last order but they don't have the right shape. I think Joe told someone to take apart a disposable camera for the flash part?
Joe is that right? I guess that is cheap enough. Too bad to have to throw most of it away.
I bought one of those wall transformers the other day thinking I would get a ferrite toroid from it . It is put together so no one can take it apart. I could try that again, but I think they are too big for a joule thief, anyway.
QuoteTesla's fingerprints are all over this. I truly believe that he and Stubblefield were much more than just acquaintances. Hans has alluded to this many times also.
I agree with this too. Now that the thing makes sense many things are clear. I have learned so much in doing the things related to this earth battery; way more than in that so called electronics class. ;D :P
OK I guess I will go and wrap!
jeanna
Yikes everyone is writing at the same time!!
I think the cotton thread is a good idea, button thread something thick.
I also think from many times repeated in the patent that it needs to be wrapped very closely. The magnetic field needs it to be able to form from the primary. He doesn't say but he repeats in every point of the summary that it is closely wound.
Mine looks a little like joe's and I am going for closely wound. I have only 25 ft of copper wire unless I splice it which I think is not to be done, so for now I will be going to the end of my copper.
I better post this or you guys will write more!!
j
Quote from: Localjoe on February 01, 2008, 08:15:45 PM
In essence we would be synchronously discharging an inductive capacitor(the earth battery) into a primary bifilar coil. which would create a large current in the secondary amazing ..
Exactly. well said
j
@ jenna
"So, what is wrong with silk? It is kinda nice to have an excuse to touch it". :)
...Note well **People without significant others... that are male in gender... buy "touchable" clothing women apparently flock to pet it.. i found this out years ago but it worked all to well as ive been with the same girl for about 5 years.. ***Thank you for confirming this verbally Jenna ;D
Yea the camera part is easy that elec goldmine store i posted a page or so back has the
http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G16329 (http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G16329) camera circuit meaning only the guts for .99 cents some transistors for .12 cents
http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/products.asp?dept=1094 (http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/products.asp?dept=1094) along with led's dirt cheap
http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=GP62 (http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=GP62) and we cant leave out toroid suprise :)
Anyways the joule theif was just a side thing i was playing with for the hell of it .. at this point for the exp id say dis regard it unless you have time to play, it was not needed for the results and meter readings i took
hope this helps
basically i had a sub concious kick in the ass after i built that little test model i re read the patent ...and whalla good vibrations what can i say. Good coolabrative thinking folks we wouldnt be here without everyone! ;D
Joe
In regards to fishing line and cotton thread, could'nt you use just plain cotton string? it comes in many sizes and on large spools and would be great at absorbing water, Just a thought.
@Mr Spates
It all depends on how long you want to sit there with thread and wrap a wire... i still say a real long thin strip of fabric is way easier . ;) Cloth is directly mentioned in the patent make sure to read the last 2 or 3 pages.. great importance
Joe
Hi All,
I unfortunately, have not yet read all of the last 2 pages, though thought it is getting to bed ay by time for you guy's& gal's.
I should mention, soft iron wire!!!!!!!!!
Fence wire/mig/tig is all high tensile contains nickle chrome etc, Goggle.
Have experience with Silver Ghosts from 1911.
Ignition coil core made from multiple lengths of 1/16" (0.0625" diam)Ã, soft iron wire approx. 5/8" dia (0.0625"). Bundle.
Besides, the differences in metallurgical composition between Hi Test and soft iron is the ease of ability to form. That is little or no spring back.
The unfortunate point is avilability. For cores yous oxy welding wire available at welding suppliers in 1 yd lengths ( will have to buy a pack)
I do not know if this is available, on a spool like mig wire, though I do remember years ago buying tye/tieÃ, wireÃ, at a hardware store that was 1/32" dia (0.032")
Soft Iron wire IMHO was what was used. Much more capable of being worked and accepting a magnetic field)
An Email that IÃ, sent to Hans @ Keely
Dear Hans, you're one very clever and an erudite bastard. Your explaniton shows a different perspictiveÃ, on Keely.
I wish to learn, I am not silly.
Wishing to learn more on OU, though so many paths. Presently following earth battery expirements.
You areÃ, old enough to have enjoyed the pleasure of listening to a valve rado, the sounds so produced are so entirley diffeerent
from a modern solid tate device?
So many, Tesla, etc. had tubes in their devices. does our modern solid state technology deprive us of true frequency?
The resonant freuency of what we are endevuring to captureÃ, was I believe so done in the past..
Our new found technology may be a hinderance!
Kindest regards
Dennis
Hans, did indeed kindly reply, though I believe he did not entirley pick up upon last sentence.
This is where I become lost but feel it must be mentioned, first try originality (spark gap mechanism) then move on to 555 timers.
yada 2nd last line
I hope this comes through, thunderstorms nice.Ã,Â
Regards Den.
@cub3
Thunderstorms?
@ All:
I just walked to the store to get some cotton string. I had what I thought was a great idea to use some 22 ga. insulated solid copper wire for my separator. This worked great except that because I am using a bifilar arrangement, I have two gaps that need separation, not one. I wound the insulated wire in between for the entire length and realized, I need to do it again from a different starting place. I ran out of the insulated wire so I am going to use cotton string for the remainder. This is harder than it sounds. I am just about done with a very tight wind over 10" and will start the next layer in the a.m. I was also wondering if we should cover the last layer in cotton as well. To me, the photos of Stubblefield's cells looks as if they are done this way. If nothing else, it will keep dirt out of the windings in case we need to dig up and repair or re-wire. I can't wait to see what this might do.
Bill
Quote from: Localjoe on February 02, 2008, 01:35:28 AM
@cub3
Thunderstorms?
Apologies Thunder storms = hail and lightening, negative ions. A possible relief from the humidity without the tennis ball sized hail stones. Sydney Aussieland. I prefer the northern hemisphere though only in the summer ;D
Den
Guys,
And Gals, Why not use cotton kite string as a spacer for the iron and copper. As far as the layer of insulation between the layers of the coil, someone else has already suggested nylon window screen. It will insulate as well as alow passage of electrolite. When I think of make and break or on and off I think of pules with modulation and this is where the 555 ic chip really shines. Try a site that I looked at yesterday
http://www.cpemma.co.uk/555pwm.html
Sid
@ all
Please bear with me... can we just stick to the patent now that were here... forget waht people are saying and please use some form of cloth and actually wrap bare copper wire with it... otherwise were not following the patent.. not a spacer but completly insulate that copper along with the central bolt with fabric not nylon! Please were close folks i dont want this to go astray. Someone please enlighten me if im missing somethign but who wants to sit aroudn and wrap a small peice of string around a larger wire 5000 times to insulate it instead of getting some large cotton fabric strips from an old tee shirt or sock.. the later will take 10 mins the string version will take forever ... forget wrapping wire with string please. dont even freakin bother you will be there all day!!.. im using 12 g wire ... does that make more sense>?
Joe
Quote from: jeanna on February 01, 2008, 03:27:52 PM
@Hans,
I wanted to ask you for a description of this spun silk. I am going to use silk from a pulled apart silk cocoon I just happen to have. ;D so, it won't matter, but I wondered if this spun silk as you saw it was orderly like cloth and wound around the wire like the modern litz wire probably is (I only saw a pic on the net) or a sort of disorderly matrix of fiber. (the modern equivalent would look like 'remay', if you know what that is.)
I have it all here, I think, so I am off to the kitchen to make this.
Fe-silk-Fe-/-silkCuSilk hmm may take a while. :D
jeanna
The way this was done Jeanna, they took a number of silk threads and, using the wire as a central core platted the silk around it. It looked like a kind of stocking if you pulled a length off the wire. I don't know if they still do it, but the same technique was used using asbestos yarn in electrical circuitry where you had a lot of heat, such as hotplates and electric irons.
Hope this helps
Hans
@ Hans and all
I had a technical writer meaning person who edits/writes manuals fun stuff like that evaluate the patent and then i showed her my findings. She fully agrees that the usage of "practically a self generating induction coil" in stubblefields patent is to mean "almost" . And that it is deliberately written cryptically.. I showed her an older patent of Tesla's and she was amazed at the vocabulary and detail compared to the Stubblefield patent.I strongly feel 100 % now that all my findings are completely legit and this information needs to be spread please read this post if you haven't already i even outlined patent line numbers so people could follow along easily. Thanks folks http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3500.msg74747.html#msg74747 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3500.msg74747.html#msg74747)
Joe
Just above the post in the link is an attachment of the patent file in searchable pdf so word searches can be done.
Quotei think ive solved a crucial mystery.. page me back when you have a little time, thanks again
Joe
G'day Joe, In answer to your mail:
You are starting to catch on as to what this patent of Stubblefield's is all about. He actually describes two devices. Perhaps you remember what I said in one of my first posts on the subject Nov. 18 2007. Here it is in part:
Nathan Stubblefield took out a patent for the earth-battery, except, the patent-office demanded he call it "Earth Battery", Stubblefield wanted to call it "Electro-magnetic Induction Amplifier". (Source Wikipedia)
This explained a number of things.
I believe what happened is that the USPTO rejected his original application and forced a number of changes. By having to call it a battery he now had to make it look like one in order to get his patent.
This is why there are two contradictory descriptions of the device in the same patent.
He complied with the requests but left the real idea behind the device in place, hence the confusion.I think the galvanic action is only a small part of what he was doing. On page 68 in my post 1019 you see a diagram of how I think this works without any galvanic action by using a small battery instead. If you really look at it what you have is some kind of a TPU without using a toroid. The iron wire running parallel to the energised copper wire must react along its length to the magnetic field generated by the copper wire. I cannot find any data on similarly wound coils which means we just have to find out for ourselves.
There is a really complex interaction going on between electricity and magnetism in this coil, the implications of which I do not understand at this time.
Hans von Lieven
Good morning all,
I woke up thinking:
QuoteIf you really look at it what you have is some kind of a TPU without using a toroid.
Thank you Hans!
The thing I am wondering about now, is if those spheres on top of the beer can (which is surely this doublewound device) are capacitors?
Is there a historic type of capacitor that is built in spherical shape? (One that we might copy?)
Hans, Thank you for explaining about the cloth surround for the wires. (I can see thousands of little children making the knitted string around the wire using spools with nails and a hook. ;D
;D )
My hand got sore last night but it is not hard at all to wrap a 3/4 in wide strip of silk around the copper wire as I wind it next to the iron and down and back. I am on layer 4 now. So, I will continue ... and check back in periodically.
ciao!
jeanna
The closest thing to a spherical type capacitor is this (quote from a post of mine in single wire experiments)
Quote from: hansvonlieven on January 25, 2008, 04:11:32 PM
A Van de Graaf generator is a kind of spherical capacitor.
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcontent.answers.com%2Fmain%2Fcontent%2Fwp%2Fen-commons%2Fthumb%2F7%2F74%2F300px-Van_de_graaf_generator.svg.png&hash=0fc2a9e93e01bd789ad27631e617ad9fa6e8e387)
Hans von Lieven
WOW, Hans,
Could you please itemize the parts? eg. the whisker - I assume. how does it move? does it move? what are the materials or relative materials? oooooo yes!
nice kick.
hmmmm
jeanna
Here is the complete article where this picture came from, it explains it all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_de_Graaff_generator
If you want to build one there are any number of plans on the net, shouldn't cost much more than about 50 bucks to build one that packs quite a punch.
Good luck
Hans von Lieven
@ hans
when you tell me im starting to catch on... I knew it was some form of induction coil from the start.. i just wanted to play with rods and metal in the ground for the hey of it because all the other pioneers did the same thing.. now... DO you know something i don't or would you care to share? if im starting to catch on .. i get it you have known this for a while or something? please come out and tell us whatever your interpretation of this is... ;) ;) :D ??? ???
I solemnly believe that the action of making and breaking the primary connection at a given interval will yield a strong secondary current. In the outer wind and that is what were going for. as well did you see my post in reference to bedini's site about a page back .. he got it all wrong and that dis info has spread far. tell me what you think. thanks again
joe
@ Hans i just read the post from pg 68
My take is by pulsing/making and breaking the primiary bifilar wind we would be sending a breif electromagnetic pulse into the earth. Many of times in tesla's work its spoken that if you pulse the earth she will sing back to you.. Thats why im insisting that the the rate or freq in which we pulse that primary .. meaning just touch the two wires together and pull apart will determine the power output of the secondary coil .. Could be wrong but fits in my perspective.. The galvanitic action may not be needed your right if we were to pulse a copper and iron bifiliar primary coil with a battery it should in logic have the same effect on the secondary and not have to be wet... but were still not accounting for factor x.. physically being in the earth theres somthething there and this may act as an energy sink once the primary is pulsed at the proper freq...
******Think of the concept of the energy sucking antenna.. they had to oscillate the freq they wanted to receive.. and once that was done a physically small antenna like ours could act electrically as a huge antenna to receive power*******
Localjoe,
I have seen proof that you are right. (experimenters usually have to see things for themselves! ;D )
The American Dictionary of 1898 had many examples of the USE of "practically" to mean 'almost' - I didn't find nor did I need a pure definition. the proof was in the language of the dictionary itself!
thanks,
jeanna
G'day Joe and all,
I have all along believed, and stated in my posts, that I suspect the Stubblefield coil is some sort of resonating circuit that heterodynes with an unknown energy field of some kind and draws energy from it.
Back to fundamental physics: A resonant body will accept energy at its own level of resonance and reject energy far removed from its own level of resonance.
So the idea that the circuit draws energy from some related field of the same resonance has a very solid foundation in physics.
If you read a synopsis of my posts again at http://keelytech.com/stubblefield.html you will find that this has been the core of my research to date. I have held nothing back. This is where my covering a whole host of seemingly unrelated devices all ties together.
My special field of interest is vibratory physics and resonance. Following the path of galvanic currents in relation to Stubblefield has always appeared to be a distraction from the real device to me. I would liken it to analysing a transistor radio by only examining the battery that powers it.
A transistor radio will work regardless of what is being used as a power source as long as the voltage is correct. Examining the power source will not tell you anything about the workings of the radio.
I see the Stubblefield coil in very much the same light.
Hope this helps
Hans von Lieven
@ hans..
Im roaring in laughter right now... im sorry to have asked you that question about holding something back...
I must have missed where you said you had all your posts on your site, i apologize but i hadn't visited since the early "i need help with a keely project days" shame on me :-[.. Im real sorry for not being more thorough .. having your knowledge a month ago may have sped this along.. :-[ And it was all there.. well at least everyone has made the connections we have now since i spelled it out and you complied all your data which is great i might add. :) T
But about this ?
"A transistor radio will work regardless of what is being used as a power source as long as the voltage is correct. Examining the power source will not tell you anything about the workings of the radio.
I see the Stubblefield coil in very much the same light."
I think i missunderstood- I take that as you think the coil is not real important but only the transmitter/receiver guts.. ?
I still think the self sustaining electromagnet is the base station model because he clearly states you can hook up a telegraphic relay or microphone to its secondary. Makes sense right?
I wish the best to all in these up coming days of fun,
Joe
Quote from: hansvonlieven on February 02, 2008, 03:14:15 PM
Here is the complete article where this picture came from, it explains it all.
Hans von Lieven
Yup it may explain a lot of it anyway. Here is a quote from the wiki article:
The first machine used a silk ribbon bought at a five and dime store as the charge transport belt. In 1931 a version able to produce 1,000,000 volts was described in a patent disclosure. This version had two 60 cm diameter charge accumulation spheres mounted on Pyrex glass columns 180 cm high;
So, silk is a flexible dielectric. It is not a moisture absorber!
Pyrex glass columns eh? see p2 of patent lines 50-52 about the secondary, it says "and encased within a pretective covering of mica, celluloid or equivalent material." hmmm
Maybe Mr Van de Graf was in that group shot too!
;D this is fun ;D
jeanna
QuoteI think i missunderstood- I take that as you think the coil is not real important but only the transmitter/receiver guts.. ?
No Joe, the coil is the guts of the resonant circuit. It only needs a capacitor and a power source, but, depending on how it is wired, the bifilar coil might act as the capacitor. I don't know yet. I think the coil needs few, if any, external components.
A resonant circuit (or tank circuit, if you wish) needs only a coil and a capacitor in order to function.
Hans von Lieven
@Hans
Ok thats what i thought originally i was just trying to understand.
This is in reference to the electromagnetic self sustaining model
A microphone or telegraphic relay would modulate the secondary coil in turn stepping down voltage and upping the current in the primary which would in turn send that modulated pulse through the bolt into the earth.
The bolt being polarized like a magnet since this version states that in the patent must serve a purpose..The bifilar coil is most likely to act as the capicator. See tesla's ozone patent
maybe over saturation of the core results in the magnetic energy going elsewhere. Meaning more energy coming in to the core that was present from the shorted bimetallic couple.
Joe
@ALL , Any suggestions on how to know if this is made right?
I could add a picture. I got 3 1/2 sets of wraps made when I ran out of copper. The dielectric cloth is silk. It is dry. I am not convinced that I should wet it.
I charged the inside wires with some static charge then using 'the little bit of foil' as a detector I detected no charge on any of thie device. [ the little bit of foil is a piece of al foil stuck to a straw and hung from a silk thread. It bounces back and forth from probe to probe of a cap charged with static e-.]
For DMM readings :
if I put 2.5vdc battery terminals on the inside pair of wires I get 2.5 volts on the outer pair.
With the battery on as before, I shorted the outside wires and checked the area with a compas/galvanometer. I didn't see any deflection of the compas needle. I don't know where to attach the wires of the galvanometer, so it was really just a check with a compass. If there is any magnetism in the bifilar, it is too small to see a change.
jeanna
@ jenna
what gauge wire?
Touch your meter to one copper and one iron terminal .
Quote from: Localjoe on February 02, 2008, 07:12:51 PM
@ jenna
what gauge wire?
Touch your meter to one copper and one iron terminal .
The copper is 18 gauge and the iron is 19. its all there was.
I started out by touching the meter to one of each both ways then shorting the end of one pair and touching the meter to the free ends. nothing. But it is dry.
That is why I used the battery. I figured I'd see what this baby would do with some known voltage at the inside terminals.
The total length of wire was about 17 feet. It is what was left from the 25 ft after last night's first run.
Any more ideas?
jeanna
I was just checking the wire for resistance. A long shot but... and one of the pieces of wire from the end of the battery holder broke. I will do the battery tests again.
Hang on
jeanna
-----
I did the battery test again. See above. just as the wires should be.
The other thing I just noticed is that with 2.5v on the inside wires, there is 15mvdc between the copper wire and the spike.
j
@jenna
You need to wet this part if you want any voltage..
Joe
Quote from: Localjoe on February 02, 2008, 04:39:24 PM
@Hans
Ok thats what i thought originally i was just trying to understand.
This is in reference to the electromagnetic self sustaining model
A microphone or telegraphic relay would modulate the secondary coil in turn stepping down voltage and upping the current in the primary which would in turn send that modulated pulse through the bolt into the earth.
The bolt being polarized like a magnet since this version states that in the patent must serve a purpose..The bifilar coil is most likely to act as the capicator. See tesla's ozone patent
maybe over saturation of the core results in the magnetic energy going elsewhere. Meaning more energy coming in to the core that was present from the shorted bimetallic couple.
Joe
This is exactly along my lines of thinking, the earth is being charged. I don't think the earth by itself will give you any useable charge, you need an antenna for a postive and a big grounding plate for a negative isolated from each other and the coil acting as a tank or capacitor to hold and build the charge. We all know a capacitor has two sides a + and a minus - and the earth is the minus and the air is the plus. I honestly don't feel your going to be able to take two minus and make it work any more than you can make a magnet with two South poles. Not meaning to sound negative, just my way of thinking.
I think there is something going on that the digital meters are not going to pick up. I made a galvanometer last year. It is 60 wraps of varnished mag wire around a compass with the ends sanded and separated for connections. It reads electrons flowing through its wires by a change in the direction of the point of the compass. You can see the direction by the left hand rule and 'watch' the current.
I have had this out at moments but I have never seen much of a response with the earth battery so I almost missed this.
Of course this might have been the main tool someone in 1898 had to check current. So, anyway, it was on the table when I was taking pictures for records. I had to move it once and when I passed it over the spike it reversed polarity. ??? I am not using it as a galvanometer, just a compass, right now.
I took pictures and made records of the behavior of this compass around each of the 3 spikes I have made.
There is something happening that is changing the magnetic field around these spikes. And this is without any galvanic reax because they are all dry and there is no battery involved.
I will put this together and report tomorrow.
jeanna
Hey all:
I will post a couple of pics.
15 mA!
.79 vdc
1.0ac
This was tested by simply wetting the cotton. I am not done with it yet, just could not wait to see if it works, and it does.
This one is a close up. Here you can see the single layer of copper, iron wire, insulated copper wire and cotton string. All possible connections have no shorts to each other, or to the core.. I did not count the windings but it is as many as you can fit winding bifilar over 10" long coil area. This is just the first layer. Excellent results here Joe. Anyone can replicate this. I believe I am getting the exact same readings a you did Joe. (or very close) I also read .25 vdc dry, just sitting on my table. I can't wait to finish this and stick it in the ground.
Bill
@ Joe:
You were correct. I did a quick test while seeing if the new cell works. I noticed that in a dead short on mA readings on the meter, they seem to slide off slowly. Much more slowly than my other earth cell set-up. But, as fast as you can disconnect/re-connect the test probe, it is right back to 15 mA. It is like instant recovery. Probably a very useful feature for priming the secondary don't you think? Man, if we used a secondary winding of a few thousand turns, we will probably get knocked on our ass testing the things. Ha ha.
Bill
@Bill Glad to hear success ;D
Very similar readings to my own. Hopefully everyone can get this far. Remember to insulate that whole layer from the next one you wind with some form of cloth ;D
One note of constructive critisim- the second copper wire your using for sepearation may be impeeding the effect were desiring for the cell.. The tightly coupled meaning next to each other looses a little of its effect when you spread it out like yours, not much but i figured for your next one it would better to only stick to the two wires and find a way to insulate without the spacer. Just a thought
I just wound a closer version to the patent the proper way with my copper insulated with fabric not the iron.. I'm surprised i read it backwards the first time, but hey ya cant win em all. And ive got two layers on a 9 inch bolt it started bubbling in water when i set my meter to amps and initally i watched the amperage grow... weird i had the meter on it in a dead short after about 10 mins its stopped that an started going down but i was skrewing with it so who knows.. the first ten mins when it was going up tho bubbles were comming from the coil
Joe
@ Joe:
Yes, I understand what you are saying. It's all I had here at the time though. When I ran out of that, I went with the cotton string. Both the string and the insulated wire are about the same diameter as my bare copper and iron wires. Do I really need another layer/layers? what would be the effect do you think? More vdc? More mA? Both? I'll take some more pictures on Sunday to show you but I tried another little experiment a little while ago. Remember when I said I took apart that shake flashlight to scrounge the super cap? I also got a very strong magnet from it and an led and a coil section of a huge amount of windings of very small diameter copper wire wrapped around a plastic (dielectric) spool. well, I noticed that the inside diameter of that spool is just a few thousands of an inch larger than my coil cell outside diameter is right now. So, I slipped it up onto the windings and just for the heck of it, I attached two of the leads (copper +, iron -) to the old 9 volt battery. The instant that I did this, the secondary coil began to sing. I mean, it puts out some high frequency buzzing which stops as soon as you disconnect a lead. I don't know what this means, if anything, but it was weird. I was afraid to touch it thinking I may have just made a stun baton. I know without the make/break cycle it should not have any high voltage but, I didn't want to take any chances. If I thought my camera would pick up the sound, I would make a quick video of it and post it on youtube. It is not very loud, but just strange. I don't know why I slid that over my spike but it fits nicely.
Yes, I know about the insulation for the second layer of windings. If I add another layer, I will use the same material (cut up cotton sock material) and method I used to insulate the original spike core. Just let me know how important you think an additional layer might be and what they should do. Thanks. This is tons (In my world) more mA than I get on a regular basis with the outside cells.
Not to jump ahead and start changing things but I had a thought for another experiment I might try in the future. What do you think about trying what we just did with a carbon rod core instead of zinc coated iron? I would have to wait on that one for a while as I am almost out of copper wire anyway. Just a thought. I can't wait to see other experimenter's results on this to compare.
Bill
Bill
@bill
For the real deal we would need approx 7- 10 layers for the primary and maybe half that with a little smaller gauge wire for the secondary. The more layers the more current it will produce i don't suspect the voltage will go up much but the current magnifies by a large factor the more layers you have. hope this helps :)
Joe
I tried to make text for all the compass readings but photoshop bonked out.
These are 3 different spikes and all are wound slightly differently. The bunch on the right are the newest one with the 3 1/2 rows of windings with silk using copper and iron. The upper iron wire (10) on the patent seems to have become a strong north. This is WITHOUT any galvanic reax going on. just dry. I don't know where this is coming from It isn't showing up on my meter as volts. Just magnetism!
picture is lousey
I will try again tomorrow
I think this is important. I have very little galvanism which is what I would expect between copper and iron. Only 58 mvdc. and the copper is on the minus. This is why I stuck with the patent materials. Something wierd. Can't you guys get some iron and copper?
jeanna
Good day to everyone,
attached are pics of my effort. The first is of 4"x3/8 plated bolt, nut and 1/8"x1 3/4 nylon washers.
Oh yes and a roll of soft wire.
Sid
This one is of the holes in the washer for the lose beggining ends of the wires. I later had to redrill the holes a little farthe out to keep the wires from shorting on the bolt head.
Were using iron and copper Jenna... ???
Anyways quick note.. i wasted 2 hrs winding one of these with plastic insulation on the copper .. and nada so that confirms that the insulation has to be water permeable for the action to take place.. however with the third coil ive built (Copper insulated in fabric in this one ) the effect is instant and lasts for a while.. i mention that the amperage started growing and it bubbled right ?
The larger our primary coils. The larger pulse. A short duration .. duty time will be needed to disrupt the secondary appropriately. so we've all got some work in front of us.. Im still working on a pulse controller that will be mechanical folks.. maybe a little buzzer relay or something hmmm. once the electronic guys finish with this dam magnet motor im sure a few will be back to help since weve done the groundwork :)
@ Sid.
Nice work bud if you have any questions before you start wrapping feel free , just make sure to insulate your copper in fabric .. and not plastic :)
Joe
This one is of shop rag being cut into strips. When my wife saw me doing the cutting this way she reminded me that there is a pizza cutter type tool that is used to quickly cut cloth. I'll have to find one as this took about 15 minutes to cut 13 strips from one rag.
Sid
Before someone says anything yes that's a bandaid. you should always push the knife that is removing the plastic insulation from the romex. I found that if you over lap the last strip with the beginning of the next the tape can be eliminated.
Sid
First is the bolt to be wrapped.
Sid
@ Sid
Nice the cloth should work real well, i ended up finding the jackpot in my basement.. my father had a huge spool of the carpentry cloth one would lay down when they did drywall or what not.. it was nice because id didn't limit the length of my strips.. Have fun The copper was a little tedious to do i think it took me about a half hr to secure all the insulation on the copper and then attach it to my other wire to wind, yours should be a bit easier with your pre drilled spool holes.. they will hold that puppy snug.. Again good work
Joe
The wires are not of the same diameter, which will probably give me greif.
Sid
All the way to one end, Insulate that layer and start back up.
Sid
2 1/2 layers befor I ran out of copper.
Sid
@ sid10:
Nice work there. Great idea with the delrin (teflon?) washers.
@ All:
I just got back from working a case. Once I finish my reports, I hope to get back to my second layer. Yes, the winding is a real pain. I was turning the spike as I went along to keep everything uniform and then I looked over at my spool of copper wire, and my spool of iron wire, and they had made a nice rat's nest of themselves and were twisted together. It was worse than a Rubic's cube trying to untangle them! This only took an hour.!! It would be nice if we could make a spool feed rack to allow the wire to roll of the two spools as we need it. Ah, if only I had a machine shop again.
@ Joe:
Thanks for the info. So, like in the patent, if we have many layers of primary, we should see more mA and have more to drive the secondary with. Makes sense to me. I wonder if it adds in a linear fashion with each layer or increases exponentially? Maybe it is good I tested with one layer, I will test with 2, etc. to see. (As I go) This should be very interesting.
I think it's great when people post their pics of their efforts. I think Joe and I are using about the same length but I think it will be helpful to compare other lengths and results. Possibly shorter with twice as many layers is better? Only one way to find out. I don't know how much copper I have left but should be enough for one more layer anyway. I am really enjoying this. (This is a shot of the coil from a slightly different angle. Single layer)
Bill
After the assembly I did several tests all with the coil dry. I got 1.1 ohms resistance on the steel wire and .7 ohms on hte copper. No shorts between any of the components. Next I soaked in a glass of warm water for about 5 minutes. As was expected all elements were shorted to each other at this point. I did get .01 volts DC sitting in a glass of water, no AC at all at least not with this meter. I was actually dissapointed with this reading, thought it should be higher. Now out to the back yard. The leads that I've ended up with are pretty short so I could not bury completly. I'll get some shrink wrap and extend them tomorrow. Readings from freshly planted coil were .51 volts DC and 215 millapms. Again no AC component was found. The amp reading is my best guess at reading this meter. However it dropped off real quick every time that i probed with the meter but was instantly back at the same reading if I probed quickly.
Iknow that I talked about using TIG wire and magnet wire but both posed probles. I took me about 2 hours to do what you see here.
Question, comments?
Sid
@sid
Great work , Im suprised you didnt have the same readings in the water tho ...i don't understand why mine would and yours wouldnt. anyways did i read that right 250 ma? compared to our 15 - 20 thats awsome man.
@ Joe
Joe if you could help me understand is this reading millivolts or what?
Dumbas a rock I am about meters.
Sid
@ Sid
Thats reading milli volts. Under the DCV Section towards the right side of your meter you should see DCA go for the 200m the last click on the dial for that section . and that will be amperage in a dead short :)
@ All,
If we're going to pulse our coils the the link the I posted the other day is one of the simplest that I've seen.
http://www.cpemma.co.uk/555pwm.html don't know the guy and have no association with him other than liking his site.
If you have a jouel theif you already have a pulsed power source. Take the carbon and steel rods that we've all been playing with and feed the jouel theif and feed the Stubbelfield coil primary and see what you can get out of the secondary.
Sid
@ Bill and Sid
The voltage seemed to peak out for me at .9 v almost a volt
For large readings this thing should be long and thick Thinking a real model would have been a foot and half tall and probably 3/4 of a foot wide. Im going to go for one half those dimensions next, remember thats including the secondary wind too, as well thats why im using thick steel wire/iron not sure acctualy and large solid copper, i figure it would take the space up easier and he says whatever gauge wire you want to use.. but its obvious there big. I think the secondary may be wound with the same gauge copper you use for the primary but you can use the regular peice of romex wire with the plastic insulation on it , they say mica or celluoid insulation but i think the regular plastic will be fine for the secondary. Anyone Know what mica or celluiod insulation might have looked like back then?
I have been reading past posts on this thread
I still have quite a few to go .
Is anyone here still looking for carbon rods?
I bumped into some on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/NATIONAL-CARBON-SPECTROSCOPIC-ELECTRODES-GRAPHITE-RARE_W0QQitemZ150211520775QQihZ005QQcategoryZ67038QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
gary
@ Sid
Your kinda right but not completly.
The primary coil is the power source it creates voltage, so we dont need a power source to pulse the primary.. We need a mechincal device to make and break the connection of the primary to it self ..
so the pulsing is only say you touching a copper and iron wire together and apart together and apart.
My gut says the easiest way to do this is a small hobby motor with a thin plastic disc or wooden disk attached to it with 4 strips of foil cris crossed on the top and extending to the edge and over it.
So picture this little motor with the disk horizontal and a terminal from each wire on either side of it just barley touching the disk. when you turn the motor on the disk with foil will make and break the connection for you and all we need is a little pot . potentiometer or variable resistor so we have a knob to physically control the speed it makes and breaks the connection.. this should be the most effective to start, i dont want to try the 555 yet i really want a mechanical solution, to just secure minimal results with proof of concept then we can go ss but until we know it mechincally works like we want it we'd be pissin in the wind with a 555 timer or any other ic. Im going this slow with each phase of this because I really feel it helps us all understand the nitty gritty conceptes behind this stuff. lets not make the mistake the tpu people did.... They could have been where otto is now log ago.... Focus folks. I'm very proud of everyone and excited! Make sure you ask about anything your unsure of because no question is ever stupid..
In the words of a great man
SPOCK Written in blood on the wall appeared a quote- "From The Naked Time" Star Trek The Original Series
LOVE MANKIND
Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 03, 2008, 11:56:15 AM
rat's nest of themselves and were twisted together. It would be nice if we could make a spool feed rack to allow the wire to roll of the two spools as we need it.
I think it's great when people post their pics of their efforts.
I am really enjoying this.
Bill
I am really enjoying this too.
Try this for the spool holder. Put your 2 spools around a paper towel cardboard (or short piece of plumbing pipe) then feed a string through the inside of the same cardboard tube/pipe and hang it all from something. ;)
@all, Woven cloth is easy to tear straight cuz of how it is made. Just clip 1/2 in at the edge to start it and RIP. It is best if you rip it fast. (The dielectric properties of silk are made aparent by this action! )
@all
If the dielectric properties of an insulator are important then why do you get it wet? doesn't wetness stop the dielectric action of the cloth? This is a theory question and has nothing to do with my building today, but I am thinking along these lines a lot.
I will post 2 pics of my spike. first is the spike with silk covering the spike and one round of 2 wires. Second is how it is now after 3 1/2 rounds which is where it was at the end of the copper wire.
jeanna
Quote from: Localjoe on February 03, 2008, 01:32:15 PM
My gut says the easiest way to do this is a small hobby motor with a thin plastic disc or wooden disk attached to it with 4 strips of foil cris crossed on the top and extending to the edge and over it.
So picture this little motor with the disk horizontal and a terminal from each wire on either side of it just barley touching the disk. when you turn the motor on the disk with foil will make and break the connection for you and all we need is a little pot . potentiometer or variable resistor so we have a knob to physically control the speed it makes and breaks the connection.
Joe,
I like this idea a lot.
Would you post a pic of this once you have the logistics worked out? (I am sure it is easy but I don't know the tricks of building with metal and wires.)
jeanna
thanks for straightening me out on that. So when i set the meter right i get 6.5 milliamps.
Dang I really thought i was going somewhere.
Sid
@ TO ALL
I stretched out the complete length of wire i used , Then cut it so i wasn't wrapping off the spool much easier let me tell you. Basicly once you insulate your copper you should secure the iron wire to the right of the copper wire side by side and then use a libral ammt of tape to secure them together. Then Tape that joint securely to your bolt and make sure this one is tight that way you can twist the bolt in your hand while forming your wraps. Im right handed so i held it in my right and twisted clockwise. Thats the easiest way ive found so far, my wire is large tho the smaller gauges might not be that hard to wind.
@Jenna
You said
"@all
If the dielectric properties of an insulator are important then why do you get it wet? doesn't wetness stop the dielectric action of the cloth? This is a theory question and has nothing to do with my building today, but I am thinking along these lines a lot."
The reason here is this.. for our primary coil to also be a power source, we need the galvanic action.. hence the water electrolyte.. This is crucial for this self generating induction coil because other wise it wouldn't work by itself you would need a separate power source. Normally youd be right about wire insulation for high voltages .. you dont want to break down the dielectric in that case. But since this "inudction coil/ transformer" makes its own juice to start we want a mock battery setup where the electrolyte is allowed to pass freely between the electrodes yet not have the electrodes metal physically touching..
In the first few paragraphs of the patent he makes an important point.. The concept of this galvanic action/ voltaic pile with metals is not new.. but the idea of winding them side by side in a bifilar fashion on a iron core is new...
He later states this secures two results, One to provide the necessary power to be self generating and two this is the clincher,
The effects of the galvanic reaction on the metals are reduced because of the inherent magnetic field setup by primary coil and the central bolt.. I don't understand how this works but i know its a key part as to why these things worked for ages and the wire didn't get corrosion.
hope that helps a little in your endavours
@Sid
Dont be discouraged yours was just a little small, Id say something about twice the length of that would work much better for you. There are going to have to be at least 2 or three layers on the primary so as to secure a strong voltaic couple meaning the more balls our primary has the larger the disturbance in the secondary will be .
Good work folks
Joe
@ Jeanna:
Great idea for the wire feed holder!!! I think I can actually adapt a coat hanger to your idea. Wonderful!
@ Joe:
I am with you on the learning curve prior to the ss 555 timer ic. An idea to help might be to solder some stranded wire to both the end of our leads and use them as "brushes". This way, contact would be maintained through a larger parameter of spacing and, the wear on the "foil" or conductor on the spinning disk would be minimized. What do you think?
@sid10:
I agree with Joe on both counts. First, I have not worked with digital meters in a long time and it took me a while to figure out what I was reading so, welcome to the club. A lot of us (most?) are not electronic experts and are quickly trying to learn what we need to learn to work on these projects. I never knew learning could be this much fun. Second, I agree that longer and bigger is better. (more surface area) I am glad you are working with us.
@ Jeanna:
Your cell looks better dressed for a night out on the town than mine does. Must be the silk, ha ha. Great job!
Bill
@ Bill
Your supernatural detective powers have taken the words right out of my mouth
"An idea to help might be to solder some stranded wire to both the end of our leads and use them as "brushes". This way, contact would be maintained through a larger parameter of spacing and, the wear on the "foil" or conductor on the spinning disk would be minimized.
I was about to say something very similar along these lines
Two things-- The wire that we use for brushes should be stranded and of thin strands .. not small wire just fine stranded not thick stranded or solid core The wire we use for the brushes should be the same metal as the wire its attaching to as to preserve the essence of the voltaic couple.
Im making a small diagram in publisher to upload in a little while.. it will make the rotary gap easier to see visually.. well hopefully since i cant extrude solids or anyting fun without a modeling program.. i lost my light wave disk.. kicks the desk.
G'day all,
I received a PM this morning:
Hi Hans,
I have very much enjoyed all the work and posting that you have done on the Earth Battery. I have a question , have you ever heard of a Timothy Thrapp? The reason I ask is because I just heard a radio interview and he was talking a lot about Stubblefield earth battery, He give a very simple description of it at about 17 min into the hour show and tell how the AC is made. http://www.blogtalkradio.com/WaterFuelMuseum/2007/09/29/timothy
I went to the link and listened to the broadcast. There is some fascinating stuff in there. Worth listening to. I have lready written to Timothy Thrapp, we'll see what comes out of that.
Hans von Lieven
@ hans
Someone just called him a scam artist in another thread here... weird coincidence .. id still like to hear what he has to say
supposedly he has an address with the name of witts and wants people to send 100 dollars to him for every hr of phone help for his 20 megawatt power generator instructions. hmm could be legit probably not , for the "plans" that is. But that broadcast looks interesting if its what it says it is. im going to listen now while i eat dinner
EDIT:
Alright - The money thing still bugs me but this guy is pretty much dead on about the coil.. notice how he always says tune to the dominant or tune to receive power... He also mentioned High Frequency.
This is completly wild.. this guy figured the patent too... And my assumption thus far are backed up by this guy to the t and also explained our timing system or what he used. I'll elaborate more in the next post.
Quote from: hansvonlieven on February 03, 2008, 04:13:38 PM
a radio interview and he was talking a lot about Stubblefield earth battery, He give a very simple description of it at about 17 min into the hour show and tell how the AC is made.Hans von Lieven
Wow Hans,
Fantastic. You just saved me a whole bunch of trial n error. { got a little of the sunday meeting thrown in there too. ;D )
2,000 to 3,000 turns. I would probably never have wound that much, certainly not at first. Also #6 gauge wire. I wonder why he said the good wire is hard to get. spose that is the litz wire?
Anyway a bit of juice for the ideas is great.
Do you know about that spring switch that he describes? does it have a name? I kind of have the idea from the description but I also got the idea this fella wants the donations for more information. an inductance switch. must be available.
Thanks so much. Again,
jeanna
Interesting progress so far. I'm still trying to locate the correct materials to build mine. I'm also building it in 3d before I put it together to understand how exactly how its wound, and the directions.
I read this from wiki about induction coils -
"Most induction coils utilized a magnetically activated vibrating arm to rapidly connect and break current flowing into the primary coil."
I guess digitally would be preferred, but maybe we could try a manual way like this for starts.
@Joe. How do you believe the Stubblefields modified induction coil was oriented? In the patent it shows it on the inside, therefore the bifilar wraps wouldn't be so close in proximity to the main rod which I guess would be the north and south at each ends. In his cell it shows the core being made of wood, but maybe air would do just as fine, Idk.
@ Jenna
All it is is a crude self timed spark gap.. Although a very novel construction. Since they couldn't tune theirs easily he says that used different lengths of wire ect to achieve the desired effect of tuning the primary to a certian speed or freq... i think my idea is just as good because or better because the way i described we can adjust our freq of the primary at will so all those other physical elements wouldn't be needed once we find the sweet spot.. and since he mentions hf i dont think its a certian freq at all I think he built different size batteries so that the desired freq was achieved through the wires internal resistance and whatever other calculations were made that determined the secondary's freq which in turn was proportional to the voltage being created in it.. which probably led to many different size coils speifically made for things such as the heating system, hf lightings systems.. ect
@ Freezer
The center bolt is iron and the bimetal couple is wound around it then insulated each layer, the copper is insulated with fabric iron wire is bare. You have to insulate the bolt with cloth too..
Nice idea for timing, Thats exactly what that guy in the broadcast show says stubblefields coil was timed.. good thinkin. make sure to read my last post tho i made a few conclusions.
Joe
QuoteDo you know about that spring switch that he describes? does it have a name?
@ Jeanna,
give me a couple of days and I design one for you, should cost no more than 5 bucks or so to make.
Hans
@ Hans:
Great info on the broadcast. I think he went off the deep end a few times but his info on Stubblefield was very interesting! I think all he was describing for a make/break was a simple door bell device as he said it used a small electromagnet to break the circuit and then once broken, spring action closed it again. Door bell type devices are well known and open and close at 60 times per second. This is easy to do. The trick would be to design one that uses little power to operate. I would like to see what you come up with Hans.
@ Joe:
I am still winding. Yes, I believe your approach would be better for fine tuning, ie, adjust the rpm of the motor. By varying the number of "pick-up" points on the disk, a large number of on/off frequencies can be explored. Excellent idea. This also would most likely run with less power than an electromagnet set-up. Some of those small modern motors for rc stuff draw very little. Plus, it can be a really, really small motor for what it needs to do. We could run it from a super cap no doubt.
@ All:
I was a little dubious of this guy on the broadcast at first as he was saying how he got into free energy when he was like 6 or so years old and was on a swing set. I thought for a moment he was going to be describing the Lee-Tseung Lead Out Theory. Ha ha.
Bill
Quote from: hansvonlieven on February 02, 2008, 01:43:08 PM
On page 68 in my post 1019 you see a diagram of how I think this works without any galvanic action by using a small battery instead. If you really look at it what you have is some kind of a TPU without using a toroid. The iron wire running parallel to the energised copper wire must react along its length to the magnetic field generated by the copper wire. I cannot find any data on similarly wound coils which means we just have to find out for ourselves.
There is a really complex interaction going on between electricity and magnetism in this coil, the implications of which I do not understand at this time.
Hans von Lieven
This brings me to something that I noticed last night. I took compass readings of the spikes . In the following pics the north point of the compass shows at the top of the pic. All the spikes are lined up E-W. However please look carefully at what happens around the various windings and the end points.
The green spike is a series bifilar where the end of the iron joins the beginning of the copper. The other 2 spikes - 3 pics are the most recent . One with 2 layers and widely separated.
The last 2 pics are the one with silk and 3 1/2 layers closely wound. The iron wire that corresponds to (10) in the patent has a very strong North pull. Just the wire. If I get on the inside it makes the needle turn out and from outside the needle turns in.
This effect seems to be draining over time. This spike had a 2.58v volt supply running through it for maybe 2 minutes. I was taking readings but using a battery holder that had a broken wire and not really working so it may have been even less, like maybe 10 seconds of 2.58v running through it..
I sort of think this is something folks otta try and I think there is something here to think about.
jeanna
That pic is almost as unclear as the one I took off the page last night!
@Joe,
I am all for a pot with the motor It looks like a good way to start.
@Hans, I accept. A couple of days is fine. ;D ;D
jeanna
@ All
More excitement on my end.
I took my newly wound coil thats 2 layers done properly, and i had a little single strand cat five left over meaning 1 of the 8 wires in a cat 5/network cable . That wire is good size wire for a secondary coil so i wound from the top and i only made it a quarter of the way down the bolt with what i had left. not that good still leaves 3 quarters without a secondary wrap but i figured i would see some result on my meter. Lo an behold by just touching the wires together on and off a very small ac voltage shows up and a small ac current shows up.. I said hey cool! so the faster i did this the higher the numbers for the respective readings. I must be tired or someting from all this excitement, my bolt is only 6 inches long.. all my wire lengths are the same tho as what i posted before.
@ Bill
The real cool part about that guys knowledge was how stubblefields coil was self exciting and self tuned to the desired output by wire length.. Lets deal with both these aspects.
This invention is very novel... So the self exciting part is obviously the start voltage produced by our couple, but the timing device was the coil .. he didnt come out and say it but he hinted..The guy from the radio show said that he removed his bolt or the top part wahtever that is suspost to mean and then he stated used a electromagnetic coil to acuate the make and break..
So basically he said that without the bolt you can use the center of the coil as a mini coil gun that gets turned on and off faster and faster till it reaches its resonate freq. The coil will suck in or pulse out depending on the direction of the dc current in it .. how a solenoid works.. he used something (magnet) so that each time the make and break was completed it sent the magnet pushing back to a spring and the process repeated itself, because the spring the pushed the magnet back out.. this would achieve a speed relative to the lengths of the wire and the size of the capacitor "the bimetal primary" This is very genius for the day let me add.. Self resonate power sink depending on construction.
But after realizing he had to go through all that to achieve a desired frequency the rotary spark gap seems like a much better choice.. Tesla thought so later as well but i know a few of Tesla's patents used this concept to set freq in the early days.. Did you guys all see armageddon03's video he used a solonid to make and break his gap the same way i think , his was in reference to Tesla's o zone patent. Not saying his was bad in any way shape or form i just want you all to associate the same procedure so you can visualize it better. He made a great video of it.
Im still convinced that this method of making and breaking the circuit is inferior to the variable rotary gap , quenched magnetic spark gap, and or any other comparable later methods.
Joe
thanks for straightening me out on that. So when i set the meter right i get 6.5 milliamps.
Dang I really thought i was going somewhere.
Sid
Checked again befor nightfall was up to 10.5
@all
I found a tesla patent that very closely resembled teh method of commutation the guy in the broadcast did check this out. pat 382,845
Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 03, 2008, 07:10:46 PM
@ Hans:
Great info on the broadcast. I think he went off the deep end a few times but his info on Stubblefield was very interesting! I think all he was describing for a make/break was a simple door bell device as he said it used a small electromagnet to break the circuit and then once broken, spring action closed it again.
This is exactly what I had in mind Bill. ;D
Hans
@ Hans:
Do you think we will have enough power to run such a device? I guess it could be a very small electromagnet and a very thin piece of metal for the spring (less energy to move) but I don't know how to calculate how much power this would require. I was just re-reading my book on Tesla's inventions, specifically his work on inducting and self-inducting coils. This is exactly what we are into now. It's all there and has been for many, many years. This is incredible.
Bill
@ Jeanna and all:
Here is a photo of a simple make/break system. I can't wait to see what Hans has in mind. This picture is for those of you that have never seen this type of device. We can adapt this like Hans said.
Bill
Thanks for posting that, Bill,
I am glad to see this. It makes some sense.
I gave Hans a couple of days so I will have to wait! ;D ;D ;D
Should we invite crash_uni8 to join us? There is probably a good reason to split the thread for people just beginning to play with these earth batteries, but we have learned so much. Maybe we would help maybe we would not.
I think I will give him this address.
jeanna
Bill, Joe, Sid10, anybody else who has built the stubblefield device ,
Do you have a compass?
Here is what I am asking you to do.
Put your device facing east. Now move the compass around the device getting closer then farther. See how far away you need to hold the compass to have the needle point to the north again. and be sure to focus in on the iron lead that is (10) on the patent. This is the one that is the starter wire that is inside and at the top.
Next energize the device with a battery for one minute. Remove the battery and get it out of the way so it doesn't mess with your readings.
Then do the readings again.
What I thinkis that this design is such a powerful electromagnet design that it takes next to nothing to get it going, AND it seems to stay there. My first one was dry so if you happen to have one that is dry try it before you get it wet. this way the external battery effect can be seen.
Thanks,
jeanna
@ Jenna
The iron wire might be riding dirty with the bolt... Maybe getting there thang on, inducing a little flux in each other. the system Stubblefield used to time this beast or what the guy on the broadcast desscribes at least, Is much easier than what you guys are saying .. The electromagnetic coil is the earth cell with the bolt removed...Or so he says.. in place of the bolt a contact point is installed one terminal must be connected here and the other terminal of opposite metal electrically connected above the contact point to a mechanism on a spring. The speed this mechanism fires or repeats a cycle will be determined by the physical properties of the coil its connected to...
That is a down right ingenious way to create a self powered self timed system... but with the stuff we have now days this "process can be done much easier" via a spark gap or ic chip. that way our mechanism of "timing" isn't Dependant upon physical dimensions of our coil. Hence how the freq of the secondary is determined
Joe
@ Jeanna:
I did your test and the cell influenced the compass needle at about 6" away. If I got closer, the needle began to spin in a clockwise direction.
@ All:
I just screwed up big time over here. After doing Jeanna's test, I decided to wet my cell again in the sink. Numbers were about the same as before. Then, I got the "brilliant" idea of seeing what would happen if I added a little salt to the water in the sink. I figured I could rinse it off later, no big deal. Well, everything went to 0. I now have a total short between the coper and iron and the copper and the spike and the iron and the spike. I rinsed it very well....soaked it....and...still nada. I am going to try to let it dry out but, I may be winding another one if the salt got into the cotton at all. Interesting thing though that the "electrolyte" which is too conducting will cause a total short. I am sure this would not happen in the ground. Anyway, do not try this! I will know more tomorrow.
Bill
G'day Jeanna and all,
Here is the el cheapo design I promised. You can make the base out of wood or plastic or anything else insulating that is at hand. This is the same type of mechanism that Tesla used for his original coils. The spark that is generated radiates energy across a very large part of the frequency spectrum as it creates a lot of electrical noise.
The idea is, as I understand, to establish resonance with some telluric field. Until we know exactly what kind of frequencies we are dealing with a shotgun approach such as this is the most promising.
I would provide this initial stimulus with small bursts of power through the tertiary coil. I do not thing that Stubblefield used the other two coils since they were used to produce some galvanic current to keep the device alive.
Good luck, If there are any questions, you all know where I am ;)
Hans von Lieven
I made such an interrupter when I was in the summer between nineth and tenth grade back in the 1960's.I was needing a project to pass the time.It worked real well using a 1.5 volt battery.No voltmeter at the time but managed to shock myself several times.I used a nail for the iron core.Paper and tape to to keep the primary and secondary apart.triffid.
@ Hans:
Beautiful design! That is so simple even I can see how it works. I also understand what you said about the noise so, this would be a very good shotgun approach for our, as of now, unknown frequency we are searching for. Excellent drawings too. I think I can build this for less than $3.00. Bruce gave me a great idea for my salt problem. He said I should boil the cell in water for a bit to dissolve any salt left in the cell. I am going to try this. If not, it's rewinding time. Hans, one question on your design. From the power source, could we use some sort of potentiometer to vary the power input? If so, would this change the frequency of the open/close cycle? Or, would varying the length of the hacksaw blade do the same thing? I could cut a slot in the blade to allow for this adjustment perhaps.
Bill
@ All
So let me get this strait...
Hans posts a diagram that works like tesla's model.. Thats a great place to start... But im a little disappointed that ive posted TESLA's VERSION directly from his patent TWICE NOW and no one has commented i even took the liberty to cut the thing in half for the pic i posted on this page and explain it.
@ Hans
Do you not think the device i posted would closely resemble what was actually used in the top of the cavity/core where the bolt would be. ? It seemed as tho thats exactly what he described.
Plus this requires no power source... the voltage needed to energize the secondary is stored in our primary " Bifilar capicator. When we short that wire from our primary it induces current in the secondary therefore acuating or starting the spring mechanism Internally. The speed it vibrates is dependent upon the size of the lengths of wire and there resistance. Plus i dont see why we would want the wires from our secondary involved in timing mechanism..
Joe
Quote from: Localjoe on February 05, 2008, 02:11:34 AM
@ Jenna
The iron wire might be riding dirty with the bolt... .. in place of the bolt a contact point is installed one terminal must be connected here and the other terminal of opposite metal electrically connected above the contact point to a mechanism on a spring.
Joe
Joe,
I have made 4 versions of something like this and they are not touching the bolt. I asked folks to do this test to check on my test. The differences are too stunning to be explained by inherent magnetism in the bolt or touching. I am only bothering you to do this, because I think it will help us proceed.
Everybody: please please please refer to Stubblefield's patent item numbers when you talk about it. I can't tell which terminal you are talking about. one of mine has 6 terminals now. They are (10, 5, 6, 16) .
Thank you
jeanna
can't wait to be back from co op today. have fun everybody
Here's what I drew up so far. Don't come down to hard on me, as this is just a start, and lots of things can change. I'm not stating this is the correct way, I'm just looking for feed back. I want to get it right before I even start to build.
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/145/cellstub2ll3.jpg
@ Joe:
Sorry man. I saw the patent diagram when you posted it but, without my machine shop equipment, I would not know how to go about building one. I think the idea of it being "self powered" is better for us. Maybe we could replicate a reasonable facsimile from some tubing, springs, coil, etc.? Maybe the tolerances don't have to be all that close for it to work. Maybe we can make Hans's design work from the power of the primary somehow? That would be beyond my present understanding. I don't really care which way we go as long as it works and can be readily built and replicated. And, also for me right now, it has to be cheap or I will need to wait to proceed. But, that is my problem so don't let it influence the rest of you.
I am still soaking my coil in hot water. It is getting better. Now, there is only a short from the iron wire to the core. All other connections are isolated once again. Thanks Bruce for your idea. It appears to be working.
Bill
@Joe,
You never PM me your mail so I reposted my lead acid charger circuit here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4057.0/topicseen.html
This charger will work on almost any input voltage (up to the max. transistor limit).
Best input voltage to circuit for charging 12 Volt lead acid batteries is 9 Volt.
Groundloop.
@ all
Whatever is easiest i guess..
@ jenna i know there not touching, but if you tape a magnet on the table and tape a bolt an inch a way from it ,,, it residually magnetizes the bolt.. no touching but proximity. Thats what i meant about riding dirty .. sorry i hate rap music and ive been waiting for a place to interject that phrase.. its kinda funny. :) o and wires 5 and 6 are the terminals on either side of the inturrupter,when shorted
@Freezer Great model except for one thing... Your primary is wrapped on the outside of your secondary... IT goes . BOLT INsulation Primary Insulation secondary.. It threw me at first two... Every tesla coil ive seen or impulse transformer of the sorts has had a small turn primary outside the secondary coil.. not within it circumference... So that is something special about this little earth battery as well.
@Bill
I agree if it works to start with cool. I have just about finished my crude spark gap model.. Now all thats needed is a novel way to attach a small disc to a hobby motor and hold it in place.
Best luck to all, and in the words of bill .. remember "NOT " to use salt. :)
Joe
G'day all,
@ Bill,
I don't see any point in inserting a potentiometer. The frequency is generated by the physical structure of the device. When the magnet energises, the hacksaw blade is attracted and breaks contact. The hacksaw blade springs back, closes contact again and the cycle starts anew.
Now either the magnet pulls, or it doesn't. You cannot influence the cycle by changing the power supply. Any power source sufficient to attract the hacksaw blade with enough force to break contact will do.
@ Joe,
The commutator in the patent has been specifically designed to suppress the formation of sparks. (See below) In my humble view this is not what is needed here, nor do I think that this was in Stubblefield's mind. Let us not forget that all the early radio transmitter circuits relied on the spark as RF generator.
Hans von Lieven
@ Hans:
Yes! I should have known that. Thank you. The magnet is either on, or off. It is either energized enough to attract, or it isn't. I should have thought that through more before I posted. Thanks for setting me straight.
Bill
can i make suggestion?
take it or leave it-just a half baked idea
some years ago i studied under a chi master in los angeles
he showed me how to find power spots using a pedulum or divining rods
some people use forked branches
can find water, oil etc
these power spots give good, powerfull chi energy very healing
can find also bad chi spots (perhaps theres water running directly beneath which makes you ill
power spots may put out a lot more voltage
QuoteThe iron wire might be riding dirty with the bolt... Maybe getting there thang on, inducing a little flux in each other
Now I see . Yes, this is what I was thinking might be happening. Hoping might...
If this is already inducing some magnetism, I think we are really on the right track.
I assume we have all made slightly different versions so we have a lot of information available already.
On my 12 inch spikes, the influence seems to be 12 inches beyond the top and bottom. The biggest influence is around the tops where the 4 terminals (10 Fe, 10 Cu, both ends of each) are.
Also, I think the guy on the radio said some bizarre things.
1) He said to use #6 size wire. #6 wire is as thick as car jumper cables. I don't know that I believe that this patent calls for that thick a piece of copper and HOW would you wrap a piece of iron that thick and the patent picture shows 5 but the number of wraps must be an even number so 4 or 6 This #6 wire sounds very wrong.
2) Did he start this idea that the core is removed or made of wood? I don't believe it is at all. In fact because of the magnetism I am seeing, I think the core spike is a very important part of the build up which produces the current that will go in the secondary. (I vote to call it the secondary because it is in the customary secondary config. and bifilar is the primary.
which brings me to this.
Hans, Am I understanding that you are proposing that we excite this by shocking the secondary? I am reading that the secondary is the load carrying element of this design.
please see page 2 LL 76 to 86:
QuoteIt will also be obvious that by reason of the magnetic properties of the coil body 4, the core piece 1 will necessarily be magnetized while a current is going through the body 4 so that the battery may be used as a self generating electromagnet, if so desired, it being observed that to secure this result is simply required connecting the extended terminals of the wires 5 and 6 together after wetting or dampening the coil body.
(coil body 4 is the bifilar coil) (and outside pair of terminals 5 and 6 are to be used for a load in the case that it is being used strictly as a galvanic device, which it is clear to us that it is NOT his intention of the patent.) However, once the outer terminals of 5 and 6 are connected to each other, the magnetic field begins to spontaneously occur and the iron core keeps it going for some reason.
What is obvious to me more and more is that NS never intended this to be a galvanic device or he would have used zinc covered iron. He clearly stated iron. We who have poked and prodded our patches of earth have learned that iron and copper only produce around 14 millivolts of galvanic action. I assume NS knew this as well as we do. (Joe and Bill instinctively grabbed zinc bolts because the experience has taught us that if it is galvanic reaction we are producing we would be better served by zinc plated iron than by plain iron.)
---------
so, what does all this mean? I don't know but here are some clues.
1) The iron core (1) is magnetically very important.
2) The core piece( 4) , which is the bifilar windings which are around the iron stake is what starts the reaction once the outside terminals (10 outer labeled 5,6) are connected to each other.
3) and the reaction although initially slightly galvanic turns quickly into a
4) magnetic reaction which then fires up the
5) solenoid. The solenoid is what has the real load applied to it.
All comments are welcome.
jeanna
@Hans,
Thank you for this easy looking switch. I need this kind of begging stuff to put my hands on. It really looks do-able.
Quote from: jeanna on February 05, 2008, 09:17:20 PM
1) He said to use #6 size wire. #6 wire is as thick as car jumper cables.
Jeanna,
Is #6 and AWG 6 is the same thing? I just checked here : http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm
and gauge 6 wire is 0.162" or a little over 4mm. It still looks a little heavy though. If we could peek at the real Stubblefield battery only for a second that would help us a lot. It is really difficult to decide what diameter wire to use at the moment.
George
Quote from: jikwan on February 05, 2008, 08:36:28 PM
can i make suggestion?
take it or leave it-just a half baked idea
some years ago i studied under a chi master in los angeles
he showed me how to find power spots using a pedulum or divining rods
some people use forked branches
can find water, oil etc
these power spots give good, powerfull chi energy very healing
can find also bad chi spots (perhaps theres water running directly beneath which makes you ill
power spots may put out a lot more voltage
Jikwan
In my opinion the energy you are talking about is a whole different ball game.
I have never heard of a way to directly create what we call usable physical energy with chi.
However ..... It is my theory that part of the way that Stubblfield got as much output as he did from his earth batterys is that he " conditioned " the batterys and the ground around them with chi
I have read that after this conditioning the usable power that the battery produced went way up .
gary
Quote from: jikwan on February 05, 2008, 08:36:28 PM
power spots may put out a lot more voltage
Jikwan,
That can be easily tested. I know how to use both - pendulum and divining rod. When I have coil working I will definitely test it and report the results here.
George
Quote from: Freezer on February 05, 2008, 12:41:32 PM
Here's what I drew up so far. Don't come down to hard on me, as this is just a start, and lots of things can change. I'm not stating this is the correct way, I'm just looking for feed back. I want to get it right before I even start to build.
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/145/cellstub2ll3.jpg
Frezer,
I see that you cut and wound as each separate layer. What would be advantage or disadvantage of such method? one advantage is that I think it is easier to wind it as I experienced that returns are bi*ch to do without shorting the whole damn thing.
On another hand could it be possible to wind only iron layer then only copper layer e.t.c. - Any comments?
George
Quote from: georgemay on February 05, 2008, 10:54:58 PM
I think we want to closely resemble the original design as possible, and in the patent it seems as if it is done that way. It seems it acts as a electromagnet in the vertical, and when charged it might accelerate this energy through the rod, and the making and breaking could cause a pump type flow of this current, thats just my guess.
This is the revised image with the secondary wrapped along the outside. I still have some revisions to do. I know the guy stated 6 gauge wire, but I have no idea where I would get that, I can't even find it online.
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg155.imageshack.us%2Fimg155%2F1379%2Fcellstub3om7.th.jpg&hash=105a39bb4ef350a01aa26b0b3d54c5b446ba237f) (http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cellstub3om7.jpg)
@Jenna
you wrote
"please see page 2 LL 76 to 86:
Quote
It will also be obvious that by reason of the magnetic properties of the coil body 4, the core piece 1 will necessarily be magnetized while a current is going through the body 4 so that the battery may be used as a self generating electromagnet, if so desired, it being observed that to secure this result is simply required connecting the extended terminals of the wires 5 and 6 together after wetting or dampening the coil body.
(coil body 4 is the bifilar coil) (and outside pair of terminals 5 and 6 are to be used for a load in the case that it is being used strictly as a galvanic device, which it is clear to us that it is NOT his intention of the patent.) However, once the outer terminals of 5 and 6 are connected to each other, the magnetic field begins to spontaneously occur and the iron core keeps it going for some reason."
Dont confuse this with the induction coil version were working on. This is the other device. You probably know that i just want to make sure newcomers dont get confused.
When you connect terminals 5 and 6 that creates the electromagnet. .. this is important.. for the base station transmitter model.
when you make and break them as opposed to constant connection as prior you create impulses in the secondary. our self generating induction coil :)
in your second question you state
"2) Did he start this idea that the core is removed or made of wood? I don't believe it is at all. In fact because of the magnetism I am seeing, I think the core spike is a very important part of the build up which produces the current that will go in the secondary."
This could be partially right but the core shouldn't matter in a resonate transformer...Eg Tesla Coil. what matters is driving the primary coil at the proper freq in relation to the length of the secondary and desired result
Now without a bolt there, just think for a minute.. every time you shorted the primary coils together and apart. you create an impulse in the secondary coil .. Use the hand rule for current and thrust and you realize that the thrust is in the center just like normal in an induction coil ... That motion then actuates the spring mechanism in the coil.. i can see this happening.. so think about it as to no one really knows yet and i feel this theory holds stock.
To further back that up. i feel that the purpose of the bolt is for the base station transmitter / SELF SUSTAINING ELECTROMAGNET because here the secondary is attached to a microphone or telegraphic relay. Now picture the process of the audio transformer, the secondary will send an impulse into the primary whose wires are shorted and that energy will be forced into the core . Here is where this device gets tricky. I think that whole process has something to do with the core already being saturated from the primary and then applying a hf pulse to it but im still working on theory for it. In the mean time stick with the induction coil model the other one and hopefully we can get some usable energy. Then we can move on to long distance chats with each other :)
Hi all
@George,
I am not really sure about the thickness of wire. I wrote it down when I heard that radio broadcast because I wanted to have that secret of success. When I was at the radio shack and asked the guy what #6 wire was he told me it was way thick etc. If there is a different numbering system where a 6 could make sense, I'd like to have a look. I thought awg was the one the radio shack guy was talking about but maybe he wasn't.
@Freezer
I agree with you that we should be making this as close to the patent as possible.
@Joe,
I am afraid I am pretty confused. Why are you talking about a base station? Is that your way of describing what is happening here or is there a page I am missing?
QuoteDont confuse this with the induction coil version were working on. This is the other device.
Which is what other device?Quotei feel that the purpose of the bolt is for the base station transmitter / SELF SUSTAINING ELECTROMAGNET
I agree that it is a self sustaining electromagnet but what do you mean by base station transmitter? do you mean because you plan to create a spark gap here?
Maybe you could put it out step by step in order for me. I doubt I am the only one not sure of what this transmitter is. or why we are not talking about an inductor.
jeanna
QuoteHans, Am I understanding that you are proposing that we excite this by shocking the secondary? I am reading that the secondary is the load carrying element of this design.
Yea Jeanna,
this is exactly what I am proposing, except I would call it a tertiary since you already have two coils in the bifilar iron-copper combination.
The way I understand this thing is supposed to work is like this:The bifilar coil is there to provide initially an energised field of some sort. Personally I think a small battery would do better than galvanic action, but we will have to see about this.
Next the introductory impulses trigger a resonance between the telluric field and the device. (something like Keely spinning a syren, howling through the frequencies in order to get all the components to vibrate).
Once harmony is established between the fields energy transfer can take place.
It really does not matter which coil is used to provide the introductory impulses, though logic would suggest it to be the output coil, which has nothing to do at startup. Once resonance is established the impulses from the sparks are no longer required and the device can be switched to output only. I will draw a new schematic showing the switch, if necessary.
This is ,of course, dependent on the assumption we are not pissing in the wind here. Only experiment can establish this.
Overunity or pissing in the wind - this is the question. Hans von Shakespeare
Quote from: Localjoe on February 03, 2008, 05:08:17 PM
@ hans
Someone just called him a scam artist in another thread here... weird coincidence .. id still like to hear what he has to say
supposedly he has an address with the name of witts and wants people to send 100 dollars to him for every hr of phone help for his 20 megawatt power generator instructions. hmm could be legit probably not , for the "plans" that is. But that broadcast looks interesting if its what it says it is. im going to listen now while i eat dinner
EDIT:
Alright - The money thing still bugs me but this guy is pretty much dead on about the coil.. notice how he always says tune to the dominant or tune to receive power... He also mentioned High Frequency.
This is completly wild.. this guy figured the patent too... And my assumption thus far are backed up by this guy to the t and also explained our timing system or what he used. I'll elaborate more in the next post.
G'day all,
This is what I received. Why am I not surprised?
Hans von Lieven
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Theres a lot of activity in this forum!.When I built my interruptor back in the 1960's
the design I saw said a capacitor could be put between the contacts to reduce the sparking,ie noise.But of course I don't remember the value.triffid
@ All
If you type in wire gauge size into wikipedia's search bar it will give several possible sites. Since I'm in America I used the "American" tab. Gives quite a lot of good info including diameter of wire compared to gauge. And yes #6 is a fairly thick wire. Along with the heavy gauge or dia. you get current carring capacity. Big wire more current small wire less current.
When I was working in the plants around here we used a lot of soft steel #9 wire for securing different stuff, think of tieing down a large piece of pipe with wire. This stuff comes in large coils of several hundred feet. This will be my next effort to get a long piece of this sire and a long piece of similar sized copper wire for my next test cell.
@ Joe
Do you think that it would make a difference if the copper was stranded rather than solid? Stranded will be easier to get.
Sid
@jenna
Yes regardless of what anyone else thinks.. theres two devices in that patent
1) It states a practically Self generating induction coil
and the other
2) A self sustaining electromagnet
I wrote this whole thing out maybe you did miss it.. the whole point is the devices are opperated opposite of eachother,
the fist one is our earth battery, while the second is something compleetly different... were not hooking a microphone to our battery are we.... this version states that a mic or telegraphic relay connects to the secondary... we induce a disturbance in the secondary in the electromagnet... we recieve power from the secondary in the self generating induction coil
Two completely different animals
Joe
@hans
Theres a small part of me that wants to use my proxy server and bot to harass this guy just for his incompetent e-mail back to us. Freakin tool GOD Bless .. give us your money..
joe
@ All:
OK, maybe it's just me but after hearing the broadcast and now reading the response to Hans's e-mail, I would not believe a single word this guy said. I say we find our own diameter wire that is optimum through experimentation. If this guy wants to charge a consulting "donation" fee for ANY information, why should we think he would give any real info away for free? I seriously doubt he has any real info anyway. I would bet that in many ways, we have a better collective understanding of these devices than he does. I say we carry on and not get sidetracked by some clown who "claims" to have all of the answers when in fact, he has none. Also, using God to attempt to raise money for his energy cause is pitiful in my personal opinion. God placed the answers all around for us to find. We just need to look. Ok, speech over. Sorry.
Bill
G'day all,
I agree with Bill, leave this joker alone.
Actually what the guy is doing is very clever, though morally reprehensible. He does not charge for his plans he simply demands you make a donation to a religious group. This way he cannot be accused of fraud and he can claim of his devices what he wishes without getting into trouble.
Funny is also that donations go to a post office box or to an anonymous e-mail account.
QuoteOr send donations, by pay pal to our treasurer John Miller, Wits2011@ yahoo.com
I wonder how that works.
Hans von Lieven
I know that Joe could take this guy down. But, why bother? I very much believe in Karma, or something like it, and our best retaliation to this guy, and his kind, is to find our own successes and GIVE them to all via open source. This guy could be the poster boy for why we need open source. Unfortunately, as we are all painfully aware, he is not alone in this type of scam.
I am still in the process of "de-salting" my coils. I am in the drying process now. I may just have to unwind it, wipe off all of the wire, and change all of the cotton. I have a second spike standing by so I might just start winding it only using the cu and fe wire and cotton. I don't have a lot of cu wire left so I will need to use some off of the first coil attempt eventually.
Does anyone know if the iron wire can be soldered? If so, then I can "join" the wires when I run out to another spool of fresh wire. I know you can solder to galvanized nails as I have already done that. (Didn't know it until I tried) I know it can be brazed, but I have no equipment here for doing that.
Bill
@Bill
I know a little harassment is worthless in the end.. then your lowering yourself to their level.. doesent mean we dont think about it ;D
I think that a map gas torch and a some plumbing solder might do the trick for you . map gas burns a little hotter than the normal handled torches and its pretty easy to deal with you might need a little liquid flux too to coat it with. Hans should have some input here too hopefully, he always has a nack for finding good bonding substances/tape/ and other assorted random shit that is hard to find.. I think thats why this thread is so much fun ... each of us come from a pretty different background yet all communicate well with each other, and freely share our talents only wishing to help.. Thanks to all.
Joe
I found some cool shit folks ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
http://www.diyaudiostore.com/cotton/cotton.htm (http://www.diyaudiostore.com/cotton/cotton.htm)
this should be the easiest way to insulate the copper
@ Joe:
First, yes I agree about thinking about it. (retaliation) I do it all the time. I agree with your comment about stooping to their level also.
Next: That is exactly what I tried to describe many posts ago!!!!! My Dad's machine shop had rolls of that stuff. Some of different materials but that is perfect for our purposes!!!!!! Excellent find man. This would make our winding a lot easier to be sure. I have been using a dab of hot glue to hold things from unraveling such as the "sock" I covered my spike with. Just a dab here and there to hold it in place. I figured it would be weather proof in the ground and all.
Any idea of the pricing on these wire cover rolls? I didn't check your links yet, probably listed there.
Great job!!!!!!!!!!
Bill
@jenna
Do you see how i mean there two devices in that patent? i just wanted to make sure before we went further that way your on the same page with us. The post a few pages back just after my initial photo of my first test cell i think page 74edit here it is http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3500.msg74747.html#msg74747 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3500.msg74747.html#msg74747)
@all As far as that broadcast tim thrapp did bring up some interesting points that may be plasuable but its probably dis info for all we know after his other dealings..
@Bill
The link right there in the post is a direct link for the company :)
Joe
Quote from: Localjoe on February 06, 2008, 10:41:46 AM
@jenna
Yes regardless of what anyone else thinks.. theres two devices in that patent
1) It states a practically Self generating induction coil
and the other
2) A self sustaining electromagnet
I wrote this whole thing out maybe you did miss it.. the whole point is the devices are opperated opposite of eachother,
the fist one is our earth battery, while the second is something compleetly different... were not hooking a microphone to our battery are we.... this version states that a mic or telegraphic relay connects to the secondary... we induce a disturbance in the secondary in the electromagnet... we recieve power from the secondary in the self generating induction coil
Two completely different animals
Joe
Thank you, Joe.
I pasted this on a text file along with Hans' answer for my reference so I don't need to bother you about it again.
Somehow in my spacially oriented mind I equate the magnetic part of both of these elements and so I mix them up.
Thank you for your patience and clarity.
jeanna
Bill,
Are you using galvanized iron or plain iron wire?
Please before you take it apart, check and mark the magnetic effects this shorted thing has on a compass. It will be easy to do. It may not ever help but there probably is a change in the compass reading from before it got shorted and if there is it might provide us all with a quick check for shorts on our devices.
About this cotton tube. It may be a great find, but I think the wire will be hard to load into the tube. Maybe not harder than wrapping which gets pretty tricky starting with the 2nd row. Probably worth a try. I think after a few first tries I might buy some litz wire.
I bought some surgical cloth tape at a drug store the other day. I will try it and report.
It is nearly noon so I better eat some breakfast. ;D
jeanna
@ Jeanna:
Plain iron wire. I still have a short so, no effect of any kind is noticed. I am still letting it dry out but, I am going to start another coil anyway.
@ Joe:
Yes, the mapp gas should be hot enough. I may have to give that a try. That way, I can clean and re-use the copper wire from my "salted" experiment if it does not come back. I have 2 soldering irons, one for small work and one large weller for big stuff. Gets hot but probably not hot enough for the iron wire. I guess I could do a mechanical splice but I didn't want to mess up the symmetry of the windings.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 06, 2008, 02:33:11 PM
@ Jeanna:
Plain iron wire. I still have a short so, no effect of any kind is noticed. I am still letting it dry out but, I am going to start another coil anyway.
Bill
Cool, so if we check with a compass after we wind each row, we should have a good check for any shorts!
jeanna
Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 06, 2008, 11:53:52 AM
Does anyone know if the iron wire can be soldered? If so, then I can "join" the wires when I run out to another spool of fresh wire. I know you can solder to galvanized nails as I have already done that. (Didn't know it until I tried) I know it can be brazed, but I have no equipment here for doing that.
Bill
There are several ways to do it, silver solder works fine but you need a torch, as a soldering iron does not get hot enough. You can also use lead-tin solder but you must use an acid based flux such as plumbers use.
Hans
@ Hans:
Excellent! Thank you. I have plumbing solder and the appropriate flux as well. I will give that a shot.
@ Jeanna:
I would not rely on that method to determine shorts. My cell is drying out and it now moves the compass needle, but I still have 1 short left. The better way, at least the way I have been using, is to check for continuity as you go, between cu and fe and each lead and the core. Hope this helps.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 06, 2008, 05:30:42 PM
My cell is drying out and it now moves the compass needle, but I still have 1 short left. The better way, at least the way I have been using, is to check for continuity as you go, between cu and fe and each lead and the core. Hope this helps.
Bill
oh of course,
next ?:
If the metal wires are so close that they will short out when they get wet, can you tell in advance by checking for continuity? I think it is curoius that your cell will only? short when wet.
The other thing I keep thinking about regarding wetness in this device is that it must be moist, but the outside must be protected with celluoid or mica.
I assume he is protecting it from excess water. Althiugh probably not an enemy of electric field, water and moisture is an enemy of static electricity. That is my reason for assuming NS is protecting the whole device from water, (like drenching rain) It makes me think this spark idea is right on.
@all,
I also am thinking the 2 terminals called 10 are antennas. He never connects them at all in the patent, in fact he says they must be kept separate to preserve the character of the electrodes. Well yea but these electrodes aren't touching anything. The earth is on the other end.?? Just a thought. -- But I guess this thought is the reason I was thinking you would be sparking the terminals called 10 since it is here that the process seems to begin- or begin again in the self sustaining action.
jeanna
Jeanna:
Don't forget, I had no shorts at all even sitting in the bathtub under a foot of water. It was only after I added a few shakes of salt that everything went to hell. So, water is a good dielectric, distilled water is a better one,salt water is not. I learned my chemistry lesson the hard way.
Bill
@ Jenna
Be careful with your insulations .. all the insulation on the primary has to be fabric or cloth or cotton ect. The secondary can be normal insulation plastic or varnish or what not. :)
Joe
Quote from: Localjoe on February 06, 2008, 07:49:52 PM
@ Jenna
Be careful with your insulations .. all the insulation on the primary has to be fabric or cloth or cotton ect. The secondary can be normal insulation plastic or varnish or what not. :)
Joe
yup it is, thanks.
I just wanted to try the cloth tape cuz it would be so nice to have it stick to the wire while I wrap. It makes it easier to pack it close.
jeanna
metals class tonight. working with a forge. (I have way too much fun!)
@ All:
OK. I have now wrapped my second coil with 1 layer. Everything 100% cotton insulated this time. (no salt) I have 2 questions. I started at the top of my spike (the head of the "nail") and wound down. How the heck do you reverse and go back up and still keep from shorting? Do you get to the bottom, then re-insulated the first layer, and then wind back up?
Next, when I wind the secondary. What do you do with the 2 wire ends of that? Do they become the leads for the load? Does it derive its power through induction and does not have to be connected (wired) to the primary? Stupid, basic questions I know, but, I am at a loss here to find anything in any of my books to tell me this. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
I believe I have enough materials for a complete second layer over my 12" long spike. This should give me better results than my first attempt at only one layer. No shorts as of yet. I hope everyone else is doing well with their cells.
Bill
Bill
Yes put a layer of cloth over the first layer of winding and then work your way back up. Again yes the two ends of secondary are the leads to the load. Wrap from one end or the other doesn't matter. No you don't connect to the primary with your secondary it is strictly induction.
I think that water is a very good conductor of electricity ,remember shocking fish, the only way water would not conduct is if it was chemically pure.
Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 06, 2008, 09:31:45 PM
@ All:
OK. I have now wrapped my second coil with 1 layer. Everything 100% cotton insulated this time. (no salt) I have 2 questions. I started at the top of my spike (the head of the "nail") and wound down. How the heck do you reverse and go back up and still keep from shorting? Do you get to the bottom, then re-insulated the first layer, and then wind back up?
Next, when I wind the secondary. What do you do with the 2 wire ends of that? Do they become the leads for the load? Does it derive its power through induction and does not have to be connected (wired) to the primary? Stupid, basic questions I know, but, I am at a loss here to find anything in any of my books to tell me this. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
I believe I have enough materials for a complete second layer over my 12" long spike. This should give me better results than my first attempt at only one layer. No shorts as of yet. I hope everyone else is doing well with their cells.
Bill
Bill,
I am winding third layer as of now. All the leads will be at the top of the coil so I can experiment in the future by connecting them in various configuration. My coil is bare copper and iron wires with two cotton strings. Between each layer I have wrapped around piece of old t-shirt. My next coil will have braided insulation on copper wire. I have ordered 100' of braided tube. The problem is what diameter of wire to use. Is there any way to contact that person in the NS museum and ask about approximate wire sizes on the coils?
George
Great looking setup Georgemay
@ sid10:
Thank you for your response and the information. I kind of thought that was how it was but now I know. Thanks.
@ George:
Wow! That is one heck of a setup you have there. You can have actually have fun winding the secondary on your lathe. I read that Tesla used a lathe also for his windings. Three layers should work well for you. I think I only have enough wire to do two. I am also using cotton string in between as you are. It compresses very tight and it allows for a closer clearance between the wires than I could ever obtain with any cotton material I have. That is a nice looking lathe you have there. I sure miss mine.
Bill
@ Bill,
If you have still problems getting the residual moisture out of your coil, soak it in methylated spirit. This will combine with any water that is left and it will dry out very well.
Hans
@ Hans:
Thank you for your suggestion. I will give that a try.
Bill
@Georgemay
Nice coil jig, Your Earth battery looks like it will be nice. I cant wait to hear your first readings
@All
Anyone that can make the wooden part of what georgemay has can take a old cordless screwdriver and put it on its side.. if you can manage to get your bolt in its chuck it will work as a makeshift winder to save your hands some toil.
@Bill
Im sorry you had to go through all that with wrapping and unwrapping but at least we learned about the salt. your new one should be real cool. And sid was right in saying top to bottom , insulate layer then back up to top from bottom.
Great Work folks
Joe
@ All:
I completed winding my second layer on the second cell. I have a short somewhere in the second layer only. Once I track that down and fix it, I will test and post results. This thing looks dangerous. I would hate to have this in my van and be pulled over by the cops. They would never buy my explanation to what it really was. Ha ha. It will look even better with the secondary. And once we add the make/break contacts, well, homeland security might get suddenly interested.
Off topic story:
I was pulled over once in a very small town where I was working a week long surveillance. One cop shoved me up against my van and stuck a Glock into my spine while the other searched my van. They found all kinds of "contraband". I had 35mm film canisters in my glove box. (I used 35mm film in those days) They found zip lock baggies which I use for evidence bags. And the really major thing they found was a cooler, which they emptied out onto the street. This contained my lunch, dinner, and a two bottled water containers. They said I was using the cooler to steal anhydrous ammonia. (for making meth) Once the sheriff got there, he looked at my stuff and my PI license and apologized for his deputies actions. He told me to leave town. I stayed and completed my investigation. Glad I didn't have this cell with me, they might have called the bomb squad.
Bill
@ bill
I commend you with for your patience with those animals. Dont get me wrong ive met normal cops and there out there.. its just when you get to the small towns they think there judge court and jury....
Often times ive thought about electrifying the hull/chassis of my car meaning the steel frame and all outside metal. In so doing this not only would the animal be taken down the second they touched metal on the exterior of the car.. it would be possible to pull my vehical up next to theirs crank the juice a little and make sure the av equipment in the cruiser had a little zap for breakfast.. With a side of esd. That hand held Tesla coil from hack a day is starting to seem like a good idea. It screams Back the hell off.
Hi guys, i was just wondering if there was a limmit to how many layers of
copper and iron windings i can use, would it increase the current the more
layers are added..or is this pretty much unknown territory?.
cheers
chad.
@ Joe:
Thanks. Most cops are good and very helpful. Turns out, these deputies were not even sworn officers, kinda like volunteers. Nice Tesla coil there!
@ Chad:
My thoughts are that the more windings you have in the primary, the better. More surface area. See what others here say as well. I also think that the larger the gauge wire, the smaller and less layers you would need to accomplish the same result with smaller wire. I don't know this to be a fact but we can compare our results here with everyone's coils and see. I know we are using different wire sizes and layers so we might get a good idea about this. Again, I really enjoy being on this forum and working in this topic. I think we will have some interesting data to work with in just a few days.
Bill
@ Chad
Bill is right abot the number of coils and about the size of the wires on the primary. If i remember the Stubblefield patent shows maybe 5 layers on his primary although that doesn't mean that that is the only nuber of layer that can be used. The more layers on your secondary you have the better as well as using smaller wire on it too.
Sid
Quote from: sid10 on February 07, 2008, 03:11:36 PM
@ Chad
Bill is right abot the number of coils and about the size of the wires on the primary. If i remember the Stubblefield patent shows maybe 5 layers on his primary although that doesn't mean that that is the only nuber of layer that can be used. The more layers on your secondary you have the better as well as using smaller wire on it too.
Sid
The way I read this, the number of windings and the size of the wire are only relevant in relation to the capacity of the device to generate the
field strength. It will function with any number of turns according to the patent.
Hans von Lieven
Well well,
In my innocence about winding coils and in spite of watching Don Adsitt's how-to on windings, I somehow got the idea that the bifilar coils were to be wound in alternate directions. top to bot then bot to top. So, in alarm, after reading the post that says "then back to the top then down again, I looked very closely at the pictures.
Please look at fig 1 and 3 of the patent. the top row of wires is very clearly showing that they come off from the top and extend upwards. This can only mean that they were wound from the bottom to the top at least on the last row.
Perhaps I was wrong or perhaps my innocence stumbled upon something??
I am after all getting those interesting magnet compass readings.
jeanna
@ Jeanna,
There are a number of ways to wind a coil. The conventional way is to wind a layer forward and the next layer back in even spacings, normally side by side. The next is to wind one layer forward, then bring the wire back in a single turn to the starting point and the next layer is wound in the same direction as the first. Some people claim you get a stronger magnetic field this way. Then there is scramble wound which winds the coil in an irregular haphazard fashion. A true bifilar coil a la Tesla has two wires parallel, connected in such a way as to have opposing current flow through the wire. Stubblefield's coil is conventionally wound with two wires of different metals instead of one. It is NOT what Tesla would have called a true bifilar coil. This is a very unusual arrangement on which no real data can be found.
I think that Stubblefield tried initially to build a galvanic element of some strength with minimum volume. Instead of having large plates he chose to put two dissimilar wires wound next to each other in the form of a coil thereby getting a large area of galvanic interaction in a small package.
He then found that a coil wound in such a way displayed unusual properties that no other coil had.
I do not believe the galvanic action to be the cause of this unusual behaviour. If you send electric current down a wire you automatically get a magnetic field surrounding the wire. If that current is pulsed you have a rapidly changing magnetic field. Any iron wire next to it would have to react to this field in some way. Combine this with an iron core inside the coil and you would have to wind up with a complex magnetic field about which we know little since no-one else has really been doing this sort of thing. We need to find out what the properties of this field are if we wish to progress beyond where we are now.
But this is only my think, I am not an electronics engineer. Having said this I have not found an electronics engineer that can tell me what the behaviour of such a field would be, they simply don't know, so I might not be all that handicapped with my incomplete knowledge of electrical and magnetic phenomena. There is something of interest to discover here of that I am convinced.
Hans von Lieven
@ Hans
You bring up a very interesting point. I think that can be interpreted two ways, id like to know your thoughts on this. Here goes
1) "and it will of course be understood that there may be any number of separate coils or layers of the wires according to the required size and capacity of the battery"
You wrote- "The way I read this, the number of windings and the size of the wire are only relevant in relation to the capacity of the device to generate the field strength"
I agree only half with this statement it can be seen two ways. In the case of the self sustaining electromagnet- i agree completely that the size of the primary is directly coorlitaed to the field strength induced in the central bolt. that makes complete sense. But here comes the other side of the coin
2) "and it will of course be understood that there may be any number of separate coils or layers of the wires according to the required size and capacity of the battery"
Now in the case of the Self generating induction coil / battery I take that to mean something completely different
Required size may be just what it sounds like/physical dimensions whether big or small for where the battery is to be placed.
Capacity of the battery- meaning capable to support the load its going to be used for.. so say a double a battery as opposed to a d cell both 1.5 v but much larger current in the latter
Now Those Two phrases have very special meaning when we take into account that there is a timing mechanism which determines the ac freq output on the secondary.
Now in laymans terms ..I Take that sentence to mean the lengths of wire you use in the primary will determine how fast the vibrating timing mechanism turns on and off.. The primary coil is a capacitor that gets fired at a self timed rate determied by the length of wires used in the primary. The speed at which that happens determins the output on the secondary. So if depending on the load your going to use.. a different ammt of wire in the primary will affect the output.
tell me what you make of this hans and all In the end the goal should be to drive the secondary at resonance.. this should get interesting
Joe
@hans
edit you must have posted while i was writing
you wrote "I think that Stubblefield tried initially to build a galvanic element of some strength with minimum volume. Instead of having large plates he chose to put two dissimilar wires wound next to each other in the form of a coil thereby getting a large area of galvanic interaction in a small package."
The key here is that This primary coil is a capacitor in the induction coil -
This is backed up by all of our meter readings so far.. why would the amperage drop at a fast rate and then be completely restored every time i would take a probe lead off one of the wires and put it back on.. its recharging itself in an instant. I think he designed the primary like this maybe knowing it wasn't the most efficient process to get the auto magnifying voltage effect tesla went for but that it would work reliably if built properly and could easily be configured into the self generating battery or another device for telecom use -the electromagnet. That would make sense for a inventor looking to get into the game and show the many benefits of his product.. i kinda got that feeling through the whole patent.
@ Joe,
QuoteThe key here is that This primary coil is a capacitor in the induction coil -
I don't agree with this. If the primary is used as a galvanic element it does not act as a capacitor, it is a battery.
If you use my suggested arrangement that uses a battery to power the dissimilar wires it does. I need to run a lot more experiments to determine the implications of this. I simply don't know at this stage. :(
Hans
@ Hans
Your design is flawed in your diagram .. as far as i can tell it does not make and break the primary wires - you show the 9 volt hooked to the secondary wire. This makes no sense to me you would want something that will make and break the connection between the primary wires copper and iron. i dont see how your device would work for the self generating induction coil thats why i keep stressing the variable speed rotary disk with contact points or your setup with the battery biasing the the copper and iron wires respectivly would should work . but not how its drawn .
I have the same reservations about calling it a capicator.. but two coils wound side by side not physically touching as we are doing for the primary acts could be considered two plates of a capicator as far as ive been told.
Anyways this was really here nor there because were not there yet i was more interested in what you had to think of the first few paragraphs in reference to the size and capacity. that is stuff i think we should come to a common ground on. I have verified that with my coil barley moist when i short the two ends of the primary coil together and apart quick enough i can see ac voltage and ac micro amps showing up on my meter. I tested 3 times to make sure.And again on a very poorly wound secondary which isn't even all the way down the bolt, maybe half way down.. all the wire i had. but i figured right in thinking that i would at least see some disturbance in my meager secondary coil, meter leads connected directly to it.
Joe
QuoteI have the same reservations about calling it a capicator.. but two coils wound side by side not physically touching as we are doing for the primary acts could be considered two plates of a capicator as far as ive been told.
Yes Joe, this is correct, but if they are electrically connected via an electrolyte they are not anymore a capacitor.
As to the rest, I do not know what to make of the AC stuff, not yet anyway. Clearly Stubblefield expects AC or pulsed DC or his secondary coil does not make sense. As to where this comes from is anyones guess at the moment.
Hans von Lieven
@Hans
-Yes Joe, this is correct, but if they are electrically connected via an electrolyte they are not anymore a capacitor.--
But were missing something here think real simple- also i did a seperate exp to prove this :)
water has a very high dielectric constant / strength -Yet it is a fluid not a solid like paper for instance. We know this is a good property or one we want because when we.. Increase conductivity eg Add salt it completely ruins the effect. And breaks down the dielectric strength. To the best of my understanding in a battery you want a conductive electrolyte.. dont you? I feel this gives merit to it being considered a capicator that dissimilar metal seperated by a strong dielectric.
Ahh now for the clincher
I wound a coil like so- Took a 6 inch bolt insulated in cloth, wound the primary over that of insulated copper (plastic) and the same iron wire ive been using, made two layers so all the way down and all the way back up i made sure to insulate the layers from one another.. this showed me the coolest thing in the world...
When i connected my meter to the leads of the iron and copper i registered a small but negligible dc voltage and no amperage.. i left my meter on it in a dead short set to ma while testing the amperage- heres the cool part for whatever reason the iron wire started flaking bits off and changing color a little darker and looking worn so to say.. in only 5 mins time.. it was a mess to unrap .
The point here is that the iron wire started decomposing in water.
the other coil i have properly wound with fabric insulation on the copper not plastic .. shows no wear.. i repeat no wear and i left it in a container filled with water overnight running my joule theif.
so why does the wire de compose in the first test with insulated copper and not in the second with the proper winding like the patent states..
I think the magnetic field preserves the character of the electrodes.....
On that assumption we know the voltage were reading is because of the galvanic action of two dis similar metals, but why are they not de composing in a common electrolyte like a normal galvanic cell would. I though the process of the breaking down of one metal and moving its whatevers to the other was how this effect works.. but if our metals are not breaking down how would one explain this?
@ Joe and Hans:
This is a bit over my head, but here is my two cents anyway. I agree that with two conductors and a dielectric in between you have a capacitor. But, Stubblefield uses two dissimilar metals as conductors which leads to the galvanic end of things. He wants an insulator in between the two dissimilar metals (conductors) but, it has to be porous as to allow contact with the electrolyte but yet it does not short. (unless you use salt) What this tells me is that there is a combination of things going on here. Add the secondary and the magnetic fields appear to do some very strange things. I am convinced that resonance is a factor here. We also know that Stubblefield knew Tesla and we have to keep that in mind while examining this coil arrangement. Stubble also traveled to Philadelphia, home to Keely, and this might have also influenced this designs in some way.
I guess what I am saying here, or trying to, is that it is too early to draw any conclusions as of yet. Soon, we will all have coils putting out some amount of power. Maybe then we can reverse engineer a little bit to come up with a theory on why they act as they do. I am excited and looking forward to comparing the results of all of our attempts. That I believe will give us some great clues about layers, wire size, number of turns in the secondary, etc.
Still tracking down my one last short.
Bill
@ Joe,
I am not certain I completely understand exactly what you did, but here is my take on it.
Iron wire, in the absence of any galvanic action will show signs of decomposition (Rust etc) after a very short time of immersion in water. If the copper wire has a plastic covering there should not be ANY galvanic action. Just take a short piece of iron wire on its own (the same stuff, if you can) and put it in a jar with the same type of water you used in your experiment and have a look. Let me know what pans out, I am interested.
@ Bill,
I agree, only trial and error will get us somewhere on this, there are just no data to check out.
Hans von Lieven
Quote from: hansvonlieven on February 07, 2008, 04:58:18 PM
A true bifilar coil a la Tesla has two wires parallel, connected in such a way as to have opposing current flow through the wire. Stubblefield's coil is conventionally wound with two wires of different metals instead of one.It is NOT what Tesla would have called a true bifilar coil. This is a very unusual arrangement on which no real data can be found.
I think that Stubblefield tried initially to build a galvanic element of some strength with minimum volume. He then found that a coil wound in such a way displayed unusual properties that no other coil had.
There is something of interest to discover here of that I am convinced.
That's for sure!
Hans von Lieven
First, Thank you for your well considered reply.
I assume that my first experience with bifilar winds which was the joule thief is what gives current going both ways at once. If either of the iron copper pairs is twisted together the result could be this (if the twisted pair is at either end of the circuit) , although NS only described these terminals being connected on either side of a load and not together and one pair specifically left open and unconnected [p2, LL 17-26] , so I am not sure if he saw the joule thief in his plan.
The galvanic thing is remarkable in how
little should be expected from galvanic action between iron and copper. It is one of the first things I learned with this earth battery. Iron and copper are at the same end of the galvanic spectrum and even at that very close to each other. He had to know to expect very little.
So, please explain what you mean by "some strength but minimal volume". The voltage across these 2 metals that I expect is only 14 millivolts. Is that what you mean by volume?
BTW, what would Tesla have considered bifilar, the joule thief?
Thank you
jeanna
@ Jeanna,
I apologise for not putting it more succinctly, what I meant was minimum device volume for enough energy production for his purposes.
Is that any clearer?
Hans
Quote from: hansvonlieven on February 07, 2008, 07:20:36 PM
@ Jeanna,
I apologise for not putting it more succinctly, what I meant was minimum device volume for enough energy production for his purposes.
Is that any clearer?
Hans
I'm afraid not. Unless you mean physical size?
jeanna
yes, maximum galvanic action in the smallest physical size possible.
Hans
@ Jeanna
This is Tesla's idea of a bifilar coil
Hans
Quote from: hansvonlieven on February 07, 2008, 06:19:34 PM
As to the rest, I do not know what to make of the AC stuff, not yet anyway. Clearly Stubblefield expects AC or pulsed DC or his secondary coil does not make sense. As to where this comes from is anyones guess at the moment.
Hans von Lieven
I probably shouldn't be saying this (at my level of engineering experience :D ) but it makes sense to me. It is why I kept getting confused with Joe's comments. I see pulsed DC or AC in this bifilar wind.
As I see this 'coil body' (4) is setting up a moving charge in the copper wire which causes a magnetic field in the surrounding space which magnetizes the iron wire (read the compass at the very end of either iron wire) which in turn continues to stimulate the electric field in the copper wire and so on. The heavier iron stake maintains the magnetic something and is there as a repository for this induced magnetism. I think it kicks itself.
I think the galvanic part since it is miniscule is there to butter the works a bit in the beginning.
BTW silk is way thinner than cotton. The wires are so close on the ones I made with silk you could hear them hitting each other through the cloth. Silk is also a better dielectric than cotton. Bill has probably proved this advantage with the salt problem.
So, LETS BUILD EM!
jeanna
You are amazing Jeanna,
This is exactly the way I have been thinking all along ever since I studied the patent in detail.
Hans
@ hans
the rapid decomposition only happened when i hooked the meter to it set to the ma reading amperage.
So this is where im commign from with the capicator idea
An electrolyte is any substance containing free ions that behaves as an electrically conductive medium, electrolyte solutions are normally formed when a salt is placed into a solvent such as water .
Further -Galvanic corrosion is a process that degrades metals electrochemically. This corrosion occurs when two dissimilar metals are placed in contact with each other in the presence of an electrolyte, such as salt water, forming a galvanic cell.
If this is a galvanic cell salt water should increase output . Not hinder or negate it.
Now this galvanic process is an electrochemical process - my mind wanders for a moment and comes back with .. can i form a magnetic path for the ion current in water?as opposed to the electrochemical one which is usually formed in a conductive electrolyte through lets say the salt's ions ?
Ion current is that which allows the electrical process to happen. Here is my theory which may be right or wrong as to how this works.
Water Has dipole movement... this may be very very important...... water can become polarized. I think there is a chance that this cell polarizes the water dipole movement kind of re routing its normal path CREATING MAGNETIC ION CURRENT FLOW and is able to do this because of the two different kind of metals. As opposed to the Electrochemical Ion flow of a normal galvanic cell.
I may have opened up a can of worms because technically we have a combination of a galvanic cell and a electrolytic cell. The galvanic cell states that the electrodes are in seperate containers connected by a salt bridge for the ion current to move through.. this is not our case both our electrodes are in the same container and not isolated by a conductive bridge. So while we have to metals producing a current and voltage its not the classical galvanic cell. The electrolytic cell is not suspost to produce power, and it is said to have the same electrode material. i came to the conclusion that the primary part of this earth battery coil body 4 just the primary coil and bolt, are a self generating electrolytic cell .. instead of putting voltage in and splitting the water or electroplating The wires are producing voltage while submerged in a strong dielectric this shouldn't happen... the only way i was able to even come up with a theory as to how it did was when i started thinking about the water and its dipole movement and how a magnetic feild could influence that or direct it. Whether right or wrong the above still doe sent quite fit so its worth investigation.
Just to keep eveybody happy
@ Jenna
You said-
"I probably shouldn't be saying this (at my level of engineering experience Cheesy ) but it makes sense to me. It is why I kept getting confused with Joe's comments. I see pulsed DC or AC in this bifilar wind.
As I see this 'coil body' (4) is setting up a moving charge in the copper wire which causes a magnetic field in the surrounding space which magnetizes the iron wire (read the compass at the very end of either iron wire) which in turn continues to stimulate the electric field in the copper wire and so on. The heavier iron stake maintains the magnetic something and is there as a repository for this induced magnetism. I think it kicks itself."
Here is the view i have when describing this in regard to your questions
1)" -I see pulsed DC or AC in this bifilar wind." --I have strait dc normal in excess of .8 volts 800mv not pulsed . i have no leads from either copper or iron wire connected to each other so just two wires sitting there.. i take one end of the copper and put my + meter lead on it and i take one end of the steel and put my - meter lead on it . There was no voltage present without the water .
So i dont understand how you see pulsed dc or ac in this bifilar wind please explain further where you are comming from. This is coil body 4 im refering to. if i short the opposite two ends together then the meter reads nothing.
2) The output comes from the secondary . there is no output when the leads of coil body 4 , Wires 5 and 6 are just sitting there open or if two of them are soldered together tested.
3) when i take wires 5 and 6 and touch them to each other and pull apart quickly over and over.. on off on off i get ac power readings voltage and amperage on the secondary coil .. so when you take wires 5 and 6 and make and break them you create a synchronous (the speed at which i made a broke the connection primary) disturbance in the secondary. Hence the freq of the ac output of the secondary coil.
Now you see why we need a timing mechanism to make and break wires 5 and 6 so as to be able to control the ac output.
Ive tested and confirmed all the above results
Hopefully this helps.
@ Sid
Please think about editing your above post so folks dont get confused.
Water is a strong dielectric as far as i have read and it is due to its inherent dipole movement of the water molocule. Check it out i googled and found most of those answers. and yes the Its some form of coumpound cell were getting there.. we just keep finding out more about stuff as we go along. :)
Joe
@ All
This will make my case a little more clear
Dielectric Material
A dielectric material is a substance that is a poor conductor of electricity, but an efficient supporter of electrostatic fields. If the flow of current between opposite electric charge poles is kept to a minimum while the electrostatic lines of flux are not impeded or interrupted, an electrostatic field can store energy. This property is useful in capacitors, especially at radio frequencies. Dielectric materials are also used in the construction of radio-frequency transmission lines.
I think that radio frequencie ranges of switching our primary coils on and off is where we will find the SWEET SPOT for power output
MORE ON THIS TOPIC
In practice, most dielectric materials are solid. Examples include porcelain (ceramic), mica, glass, plastics, and the oxides of various metals. Some liquids and gases can serve as good dielectric materials. Dry air is an excellent dielectric, and is used in variable capacitors and some types of transmission lines. Distilled water is a fair dielectric. A vacuum is an exceptionally efficient dielectric.
Once again distilled water
This came from one of my Google searches
Sid
@ Sid..
So your saying you agree with me now that water is a good/fair dielectric.. before you stated it wasn't and thats wrong. I would like it if you removed that from the above post. And yes distilled even better dielectric.. heres the governments answer kind of
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/phy99/phy99099.htm (http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/phy99/phy99099.htm) Im not trying to be a pain i just know this to be fact.
@ All
From Wikipedia,
Radio frequency (RF) is a frequency or rate of oscillation within the range of about 3 Hz to 300 GHz. (60 Hz is standard in the US.)This range corresponds to frequency of alternating current electrical signals used to produce and detect radio waves. Since most of this range is beyond the vibration rate that most mechanical systems can respond to, RF usually refers to oscillations in electrical circuits or electromagnetic radiation.
Please everyone I'm not poofooing anyone's ideas about how to switch, if we switch mechanically we need to turn a small wheel with, ? 6 contact strips, at exactly 600 RPM to hit 60 Hz. AC mains type power. This puts us toward the lower end of the range.
Also remember that Tesla did a lot of his work at very high frequencies.
Hope I'm not going off the deep end. It's just that it take very little power to run a electrical oscillator.
Sid
@ Joe
No what I am saying is that water conducts electricty unless it is pure.
And unles Webster is Wrong dielectric means nonconductive.
edit,
I should have said a poor conducter.
Sid
@ Sid
Your wrong Im sorry to say again. Skrew websters go test it like i did..
There is a breakdown point But your still completly missing what i am saying..
A dilectric constant would imply that there are different levels of conductivity leading to non conductive.
Ok The reading i get from the two metals in my primary should not be .8v and some 20 ma.
I'll get distilled mineral free from price choopper tomororw and prove it. you can do the same.
The reason it is such a good dielectric is that it is a polar molecule - the h-o-h bonding angle is not straight. This means that it can be polarized by an electric field - and this is the main characteristic of a good dielectric.
Take a small cup of water take a double a battery hook a small flashlight bulb to it on the postitve side take the neg side of the bulb and jumper it to a small peice of tin foil take the - side of the battery and jumper it to small peice of tin foil. Now heres the deal when you put both peices in a little bit.. nada little more nada all the way .. maybe a dim light , now try the light with just the battery. nice and bright. Now go back to putting the peices in the water and add some salt.. awsome works great... bright light. ya right
Why would our cell short with salt in the water.. and not work.. Here in bills mistake lies the key, Water is barley conductive at all unless at high voltage and thats a different set of rules.. So the water here is a strong dielectric whether you want to admit it or not. If it were conductive as you say our apparatus would not work. the water serves a different purpose than an electrolyte here even tho he calls it that. Either way if my cell shows the same or better readings in distilled that should do it for you.
This looks to be a galvanic action yet is not setup like one the only real answer is that that there is another unknown process creating these voltage readings... you got .4 volts i got .8 volts we should not gain voltage from increased surface area or more of the same wire.. at least not a half a volt difference , i could see the amperage being different but something else is happening between the water and the two primary wires which is allowing them to generate voltage and current without and apparant ion current.... this should not happen in these facts lie our answer.
Not meaning to be a sore thumb or anything, but if you throw a plugged in electric fan or hair dryer in a bathtub, well, I wouldn't want to be in the bathtub.
Joe, I will answer your questions, but I need to put the answer together. I believe if you are seeing .8v with iron and copper you are seeing something remarkable.
I actually thing there is some zinc in the mix on the iron side. You have the fingerprint voltage of cu-zn. This is the coil body 4 alone - Or you have something remarkable.
I don't care how much salt is in your tap water. A saturated solution (one where there is a little undissolved salt at the bottom) isn't enough to make .8v from iron and copper.
this is the only answer I can give for now.
I am measuring.
I'll be back
jeanna
Yes just like we used a tractor battery to shock up fish in a pond. Admittaly a large battery but still just 12 volts.
Sid
@ Mr spates
you are right.. But i said low voltage thats high voltage...... not low were dealing with less than a volt here. Try the simple exp i said you'll see that tap water is not a good cunducor at all under low voltage circumstances.. again this is not the typical galvanic action we all thought it was...
@ Jenna
I ohmed each connection just to make sure that .. i didnt have a short.. theres no short.
@ Sid..
Were not putting electricity into the wires.. its comming out of them already get it. so were not doing what your describing. your breaking down the dielectric of water when you do that to a pond were doing the opposite!
@ Joe
I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass I'm just trying to understand how something can be a conduter and a nonconductor at the same time. If I'm wrong it's not the first time and hopefully wont be the last. Thinking out of the box so to speak.
Sid
@ Sid
Water for instance can be a conductor when you put tension on it or dissolve a salt in it.
Meaning trying to move an electrical current through it like one side of a battery. hense my experiment with a double a battery and light, until i put the salt in the light did not light brightly or at all.
So thats someting being real conductive and not real conductive.
when you put both terminals of a battery in water you put put tension in the water and electrolysis happens
all those processes involve inducing a current in the water
were using a current that is present in the primary coils wires. how i dont know, but its pure dc.
Now as far as water being conductive or not conductive or ammts between those two that is not impotant right now.. We already know that coil without water = no readings
moist coil or coil in water =.8v 20 ma
when i stated the comment about the dielectric nature of water i knew i was right i wasent talking out my arse..Member checked that its an 80 on the dielectric constant table. but that was only to support my theory on the primary bifilar coil acting as a capacitor as well .. there has to be a dielectric if its a cap... and then i realized that i was right and it was a capacitor and a voltaic cell!
Quote from: sid10 on February 07, 2008, 10:13:58 PM
I'm just trying to understand how something can be a conduter and a nonconductor at the same time.
Sid,
welcome to semiconductorland. cool stuff.
But really everything has a breakdown point. Things are good or bad conductors because of the number of electrons in the outer shell of the atom . It is what Tesla talked about all the time. the dielectric. He was looking for the perfect ones for his uses.
When I first read things about Tesla (in the late 80's) then tried to understand the man himself, I was stopped by 2 non modern words. they were dielectric and condenser. They are still used but not like before. Anyway it is a cool topic, There is a constant used called the dielectric constant........
and
@joe,
I think you have a very interesting idea about how water can disassociate with the magnetic field that this device creates. It may be a good thing to think about.
jeanna
@ sid here is the w section of the dielectric table notice just water says 4-80 and then water at different temps shows there releative numbers .. i find it funny that water rates an 80 at 80degres farenheit vs wood at a 30.......
Water 4-88
Water (32? F) 88.0
Water (68? F) 80.4
Water (212? F) 55.3
Water (390? F) 34.5
Water (80? F) 80.0
Water (Steam ) 1.00785
Wax 2.4-6.5
Wheat Flour 3.0 - 5.0
Wheat Flour (Dry Powder ) 1.6
White Mica 4.5-9.6
Wood, Dry 2-6
Wood, Pressed Board 2.0-2.6
Wood, Wet 10-30
@ Sid i would really appreciate it if you could change your posts stating water is not a dielectric so folks dont get confused. please :)
Quote from: Localjoe on February 07, 2008, 08:24:13 PM
@ Jenna
You said-
Joe, I need to know if these tests were done on a device with AND without the secondary windings or if you were just reading or not reading the secondary.
jeanna
confusing question?
How many devices do you have and how many are you testing?
See, I get nothing on a lot of the same places you do. It is just on the one that has a secondary that the inner core 4 shows voltags. It shows 60.9mv between the terminals 5,6.
@ Jenna
yea kinda confusing.
Just the one i am describing the prior models i built had improper insulation and weren't wound with love.. nicely.
The readings i took were from just the wires on the primary coil no secondary was present while i was taking those readings. copper to + iron to - on the meter. those readings ranged between .7 -.9 v and between 16-20 ma.
ok then i wound some wire real thin probably 24 plastic insulated from the top down i only got about half way or less because i ran out of wire. next i take the leads from my meter and connect them to either end of the secondary doesent matter. then i take in my hands the wires from the primary and make and break them myself.. i see a small AC voltage and AC current on the meter.. this should help you understand my logic :)
So
If I now understand the water is what holds the voltage or power or whatever it is that is creating our meter readings in the primary, until we probe them with a meter? It's working as an insulator?
Sid
@ Sid
We dont know how yet but we do know what we've found and what makes sense and what doesn't so time will tell. No one really knows what happens magnetically here other than ive found about the ac readings in the secondary after pulsing the primary on and off.. if you have the ability to build a rotary gap like you described earlier with 6 points or 4 that should work great for inital testing once you have your secondary wound. :)
@ jenna
You did put it in water to get it moist right?
Quote from: Localjoe on February 07, 2008, 10:46:31 PM
@ Jenna
yea kinda confusing.
Just the one i am describing the prior models i built had improper insulation and weren't wound with love.. nicely.
The readings i took were from just the wires on the primary coil no secondary was present while i was taking those readings. copper to + iron to - on the meter. those readings ranged between .7 -.9 v and between 16-20 ma.
ok then i wound some wire real thin probably 24 plastic insulated from the top down i only got about half way or less because i ran out of wire. next i take the leads from my meter and connect them to either end of the secondary doesent matter. then i take in my hands the wires from the primary and make and break them myself.. i see a small AC voltage and AC current on the meter.. this should help you understand my logic :)
I don't know what happened to my reply so this may be a repeat or something.
I think I do understand some of your logic. I don't think it is logic that is such a question. It is the actual readings. I also get zero with the terminals shorted and a lot of the same results.
Here is where our results are differing:
I get a strong magnetic attraction at the terminals 10 and 6 made of iron whether with or without a secondary. You have not mentioned it or I missed seeing your mention of it.
I don't ever get .77v unless I am touching probes to a zinc bolt and copper terminal. (I made one with a zinc bolt so I could be making a similar experiment as you and Bill)
I am unable to see anything from the secondary. I actually think it is there, just the wire I used is so thin I can't get a reading from it without touching the probes with my hands. (But THAT shows my personal GSR which today is around 20 mv which is more than the secondary probably would be showing)
But and here is where our results really do agree, On the device that has it all: moisture, inner core and secondary I get 60.9 mv between leads 5,6 and
If I check between a cu terminal (either one) and the zinc bolt, I get a cycling that goes from a high of 190mv to a low of 46mv and cycles in between up and down from a cycle at the high end to cycles at the low end.
This is also why I said lets build them. I think there is really nothing going on until you add the secondary.
And just because I think this is more magnetic than electric and therefore MY reasoning says it is a self kicking doesn't mean I am right or you are wrong.
Lets just keep on truckin
jeanna
@jenna
dont take this the wrong way ummmm if you have some cheap rags or cotton t shirts you could use.. how ever crude i think your results will go up dramatically. Bill got the same readings i did .
What gauges are your wire as well i never asked you that.. My copper is bare about 10 or 12 gauge from a romex wire. my iron may be a little bit larger than that like 8 but i think its 10 or 12
your not going to see anything from the secondary unless the primary making and breaking happens at a fast speed.
Wow! I go away for a few hours and, a lot of posts.
@ All:
Bruce from the TPU topic pm'd me and said that, like Joe is saying, water is a good dielectric. Distilled water is even better. This makes sense to me. Possibly my "salt" experiment has shown us something. I artificially increased the conductivity of the electrolyte and, the whole works shorted. This alone tells me that water, as comes out of my tap, is acting like a dielectric of sorts. My first attempt at this cell I obtained .8 vdc and 15 mA. This was just after wetting the cell a bit. That also tells me something. (I am still trying to figure it out) I know we are on to something here people. I feel we are getting beyond the point where we can look to the "books" and hope to explain things that are happening.
Now, someone posted about not wanting to be in a tub with an electric fan, and I agree. Why is this dangerous? I don't know, but he is correct, it is. But, this scenario might not be directly correlated to the results we are seeing here. I was always taught that water was a GREAT conductor. I have since learned otherwise. I have to agree with Joe on this one.
@ Jeanna:
I am not sure why you are not seeing the same, or similar, results that Joe and I have once you "wet" your cell. Does the zinc play a part in this? Maybe, hell I don't know. I just used what was available to me at the time. My core is mostly iron though as proved by my magnet experiments at the store. We are breaking through to another level here. It is not, and will not be easy. We don't all have to agree on everything all of the time. Any information , either by experiment, or personal knowledge, that propels us forward is welcomed by me.
I have re-wrapped my second layer to eliminate my short. I still have my first "salt" cell, which shows no short now that it is dry. (Thanks Hans) I have no wire available for a secondary at this time but I will see what I can do. I will post test results on the 2 layer cell in tap water, to compare. I am very impressed with every one's efforts here. With all of the talent, and out of the box thinking we have here on this topic, we can not fail.
Bill
@ Bill
Thanks for the vote of support and thanks to bruce as well. I also concur that we are delving into areas of science that books only test can help us with so good luck folks.
Joe
welcome back Bill,
QuoteI am not sure why you are not seeing the same, or similar, results that Joe and I have once you "wet" your cell. Does the zinc play a part in this?
Sure it does. We found that out outside. Whatever is on the surface of the bolt is going to give a galvanic response. I did make a zinc bolt version and it works well.
I am quite sure and maybe even wrote it down that before I wrapped the secondary on the zinc bolt plus inner core 4, it gave a voltage of .77. Another one here in the kitchen did by itself with a piece of copper in a glass jar.
Thing is, the thing does this interesting cycling when I touch probes to copper terminal 5 or 10 and the zinc bolt.
I am not worried about these readings.
QuoteWhat gauges are your wire as well i never asked you that.. My copper is bare about 10 or 12 gauge from a romex wire. my iron may be a little bit larger than that like 8 but i think its 10 or 12
Joe, Is your wire stranded?
both my wires are single strand gauge Cu18 and Fe19 The iron is dark annealed. It is pretty stiff and hard to bend but it was the only one I could find that was not galvanized. I could not find any other iron wire that was fence or stove or otherwise outside wire that was not zinc coated and shiny silver colored.
The other day I bought some even smaller 24 gauge of each and some more 18 gauge of each and the iron of BOTH of these sets are galvanized. also 2 zinc coated bolts and 2 iron nails. I will make inner core 4's out of these.
Also Joe, I did make one with cotton. It is heavy and bulky and the wires don't get very close to each other. I think because of needing to induce a magnetic field it is of paramount importance. Getting them close is a priority for me.
I guess all of us are out of mag wire. I need to order some, so, I can only make the inner cores for a while. I have some but it is either too short or too skinny. I will use up what I have.
off topic
BTW I got a kodak disposable camera but there is a small choke but no toroid.
Bill, I can saw a ferrite bead shorter with a hack saw can't I.
jeanna
@Jenna
I left you a link right when you asked for the torroid suprise its a multi pack for a few bucks and the leds and what not.
Ive seen the cycling and i have seperate readings between the copper and the bolt lower than with the iron i might add. i dont want to bring these up now because i don't want folks confused. :)
My coper is solid not stranded its larger than the diameter of the ink tube inside a bic pen..
Here this is a photo of my latest cell the one i've been taking readings from
@ Jeanna:
If it is really ferrite (iron oxide) you will need diamonds to cut through it. All of our tooling was diamonds. Ferrite is not as hard as aluminum oxide (al203) but it is close. Put it this way, on the Mohs' scale of relative hardness, al203 is 9, ferrite is like 8.7 and glass is 5.5. Diamond is 10. Way harder than glass.
@ All:
I completed re wrapping my 2nd coil and, tah dah, no shorts. I need to get to bed but i will wet it in the a.m. and see what happens.
Bill
Hi to all you builders.
A suggestion for a source of soft iron wire. In the USA, if you go to the building material outlets like Home Depot or any builders supply, in the construction dept, they have iron wire for tying rebar together. Rebar is short for reinforcing steel in used in making poured concrete forms. They rebar varies in diameter from 3/8 inch to one inch.
The tying wire is very soft because it is made to wrap around the rebar to hold them together before the concrete is poured. I don't think it is coated except for maybe a thin layer of paint. It rusts very easily after getting wet.
So, don't look for wire just where the wire dept is. Go to where the construction supplies are and ask for wire to tie rebar together.
Hope this helps,
Tishatang
@ All:
First tests with the new cell: (This test was one with just wetting the cell in the sink)
.79 vdc
15 mA
1.0 vac
This is identical to the results from my single layer coil. This one has two layers. No difference that I can see. Interesting.
I blew out another fuse on my digital meter while testing this. (I have no idea why) I had to use the analog to measure mA. It is a .5 amp fuse and should not have blown from what I am measuring here. (I would love to have .5 amps)
Has anyone else achieved more volts and/or mA with additional layers?
Bill
@Bill
Nice! The more you do the higher the amperage will go but the voltage peaked somewhere around .9 for me so the volts probably wont go much higher. Ive got a few things to do today but if i have a chance im going to try to make some form of interuppter/ on off switch thats self propelled. ;D
@jenna
you said
Lets just keep on truckin
were you referring to the song or just moving along with our projects.
If you were talking about the song.. id say take a 5 min break and listen to a little truckin ! ;D Great inspiration RIP JERRY followed by some dark star
After your done trucking if your getting mad at your primary coil theres this song from steelers wheel called stuck in the middle with you.. i find that relieves stress - you might get some exercise if it drives you to dance as well. Music the gift that just keeps giving.
Joe
PS- If your a rap lover sorry you may not agree with any of that.
@ Joe, Hans, or anyone:
Another stupid question. If I can get some thin copper wire, I am going to try to wrap a secondary. Do we need to insulate the primary from the secondary as we did the layers? In other words, do I need to put a layer of cotton over my second layer prior to wrapping the secondary? As I posted before, my books here all show coils and how they work, but not how to wrap or wire one. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
@ Joe:
I was listening to some Jimmy Buffet while winding the coil. He went to Paris, Son of a son of a sailor, etc. Great tunes.
Bill
Quote from: tishatang on February 08, 2008, 01:57:39 AM
tying rebar together. The tying wire is very soft because it is made to wrap around the rebar
Tishatang
Thank you Tishatang,
What a good idea. It is just plain soft iron. (I even have it in short pieces, :-[ But the roll of it is available at the same place.)
Thank you - my sore fingers thank you!
Jeanna
http://www.crystalradio.net/cal/indcal2.shtml (http://www.crystalradio.net/cal/indcal2.shtml)
Above is another link to a coil calculator. This will tell us the inductance of our coils. The one I posted way back seems to have a bad link. At the bottom of the page, there is a great chart with wires sizes, etc.
Bill
Quote from: Localjoe on February 08, 2008, 12:42:56 AM
@Jenna
I left you a link right when you asked for the torroid suprise its a multi pack for a few bucks and the leds and what not.
Yes, you did. And I will use it. I was hoping to get started right away by getting something here in town
Ive seen the cycling and i have seperate readings between the copper and the bolt lower than with the iron i might add. i dont want to bring these up now because i don't want folks confused. :)
That's cool. (and I am glad to hear about the cycling anyway)
My coper is solid not stranded its larger than the diameter of the ink tube inside a bic pen..
pretty fat. maybe why T shirt cotton puts it close enough to the iron I assume the iron is the same gauge??
@Bill, Thanks for saving me the fingers.
I guess I will buy the surprise from goldmine.
also Bill
QuoteDo we need to insulate the primary from the secondary as we did the layers?
Just the primary from the secondary. This is where the patent shows a wooden spool. thin wood I guess. He even says the word spool, so, I assume he thought that info would be helpful.
I was also thinking the top of the spool would be a nice place to mount the screws and wires for tha spark gap arrangement esp. since everything needs to be close and it is overbalanced and awkward when it is all on the top.
I just re read the patent and I am going to go back and properly identify the numbers of the wires. I may have mixed them up.
Quotewere you referring to the song or just moving along with our projects
both.
I've been listening to Venezuelan Tangos and French jazz :D
jeanna
@ Jeanna:
Jazz? I have been listening to a prison jazz quartet called "Con Fusion."
Just kidding.
Bill
*Duplicate Post Removed*
@ All:
I just soaked my new cell a little longer in the sink and I was showing a friend of mine my results. It now reads 19 mA! He could not believe it. I used my analog meter as my fuse is still blown on the digital. the wetter it is, the more power seems to be there.
Bill
@bill
yea deff insulate the primary from the secondary with a single layer of cloth or what not.--Cool results ;D
@jenna
the iron wire is a larger gauge then the copper the copper has a smaller diameter than the pen and the iron a larger.
Rock on folks
@ Joe:
Thanks for the info.
I think we posted at the same time. Did you see my post about the 19mA? It is the post just prior to your latest. This is a great little cell, even without the secondary!
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 08, 2008, 03:21:05 PM
@ Joe:
Thanks for the info.
I think we posted at the same time. Did you see my post about the 19mA? It is the post just prior to your latest. This is a great little cell, even without the secondary!
Bill
Yea nice results :)
Your getting the same readings i have been. I took the secondary off mine to start rechecking and its all there
the secondary winding has no consequense on the output of the primary reaction between the two wires in terms of taking meter readings :)
Im heading back downstairs to the miter saw some fresh wood ,im trying to build both versions of the interrupter's - hans's wired differently and my rotary idea . back to the bat cave
Peace
Joe
@all
has anybody else tested different temp water on the primary?, i made a quick crude coil around a piece of reinforcing bar i had and it gave .4v DC and 7ma, then i placed it in hot water and it dramaticaly canged..i know this is probably common knowledge but i thought it mighy shed a little light on what is happening.
The new reading of the coil in hot water was 1.2v wich dropped to .93v and 26ma wich dropped to 15ma and held pretty well.
well il keep fiddling
chad.
Bill,
Thanks for that radio website. I had just been there yesterday but I never saw that calculator page. I made some sample calculations and I learned a few things but....
@anyone
Am I looking for higher henry count or lower?
My guess is higher, but I can make up good reasons for both directions so I need to know from someone who does.
jeanna
@ Chad:
Interesting observation. I gave it a try and with very hot water, my numbers actually went down a bit. But, you have me curious so now I am going to try ice water, just to see. Maybe yours went up for some different reason and mine went down so maybe the ice will make mine go up. I have no idea why this would make any difference. Might be telling us something.
@ Jeanna:
My GUESS would be higher also. But, I don't really know.
Bill
Bill,
Yes, higher. How to aim for that, I will need to study. I just received some info and I need to think about it a while.
I see something I can copy right out.
Quote... As a guide, think of thin wire, lots of turns, for primary and wire 4 times as thick for the secondary. It's an arbitrary thing. ...
So, I will now post some results that should conform with yours and Joe's
I am using a 3/8 in diam galvanized iron bolt.
18 gauge galvanized steel wire
18 gauge copper wire. covered with cloth tape. (This is surgical tape. I thought the glue might breathe and it looks like nylon cloth but doesn't state.) The tape made it a lot easier and I was sure that it was not slipping off.
Total length of coils 2 3/8 in.
4 complete coils each having about 20 Cu and 20 Fe winds
terminals 5,6
0.54vdc
0.5vac
0.01ma (9-10ua)
terminals 10 Cu, Fe
0.6vdc
0.7vac
0.01ma (12.5ua)
This is just the wetted primary.
ah it feels good to report!!
jeanna
@Jenna
Well the voltage is there but you have minimal amperage we really are getting 16 to 20 ma not uh so i do recommend some fabric cloth when you get a chance for the copper. You should see a diff just a thought ;) :)
joe
@Hans
I just built your model and i need some help. I cant get it to work . Any thoughts?
@Jeanna:
Joe is correct. Your mA should be higher. My latest coil has 2 layers of 55 winds each of cu and fe. My first coil has 1 layer of 55 winds of each. Possibly you need more length/winds to get better mA? I have not cracked the 20 mA mark yet, but very close at 19.
Are you soaking your coil in water? (the sink) My measurements were taken while the coil was under water. It continues to put out the same as it dries out, then gets less and less as it does so.
@ All:
I have been thinking about something. (Yes, I know that can be dangerous) If Stubblefield could achieve his maximum volts/amps by placing his cells in water, he would have done so. He could have easily used buckets instead of burying his cells in the ground. My thoughts are that we will see much better readings out in the field than we see in water. Does this not make sense? I mean, why dig holes when a container of water was much easier to do, and easier to move around? I think now when we have our coils outside in the ground we will see something of the teluric currents coming into play here as well. This guy (NS) was using many different phenomena to achieve his results. I am wondering if I should bury a coil before I wind the secondary on it just to see? It might take me a while to locate and purchase the secondary winding materials. I am just putting this out there.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 08, 2008, 11:44:17 PM
@Jeanna:
Joe is correct. Your mA should be higher. My latest coil has 2 layers of 55 winds each of cu and fe. My first coil has 1 layer of 55 winds of each. Possibly you need more length/winds to get better mA? I have not cracked the 20 mA mark yet, but very close at 19.
My gauge is 18 for each. the winds are 40 of each all together. I just have a smaller device than either of you. Less metal surface, less amperage.
Are you soaking your coil in water? (the sink) My measurements were taken while the coil was under water. It continues to put out the same as it dries out, then gets less and less as it does so.
Yes, I soaked it this time. Then I took it out and it is still leaving water in the bottom of the jar it is propped up in.
we will see much better readings out in the field than we see in water.
I believe you are right about this.
why dig holes when a container of water was much easier to do, and easier to move around? I think now when we have our coils outside in the ground we will see something of the teluric currents coming into play here as well. This guy (NS) was using many different phenomena to achieve his results.
Bill
When I got up this morning, I decided to read the patent again. It made a lot more sense than yesterday just because the hands on of yesterday informed me and parts of sentences popped out at me that I had totally missed.
I could tell you what I learned today by reading the patent, but I think the same thing will happen to all of us as we continue to build, certain parts of the patent will make more sense. I plan to read it again before I start tomorrow, too.
I personally do not think NS was trying to hide any secrets from people to make them buy batteries from him. I think it is all there. It is as he says a "novel construction, combination and arrangement of parts". it really is. *
And that is the reason I am trying my best to use the materials that he had available to him in the way he describes. There is plenty of time to make it my or our way later if we can just get his thing going his way.
Anyway, I will make a bigger one in a few weeks. I need to be at a retreat next week and I don't want to buy anything from the net until I return. So, I am trying to make do with what I have here. So, I am making small devices. But they still show something.
jeanna
* I agree there is a good possibility that he neglected to go into detail about how he best liked to allow the device to short and unshort, but we don't know yet.
@jenna
you wrote-
"I personally do not think NS was trying to hide any secrets from people to make them buy batteries from him. I think it is all there. It is as he says a "novel construction, combination and arrangement of parts". it really is. *"
Who said he wanted to hide stuff so people would by product... >? I think you got confused
I said earlier that the patent office made him re word his patent and wouldnt give it the proper name hense the two devices described in the patent.. Ive had others confirm this, the descriptions of the devices are not in order with there counterparts we also evaluated other patents at the same time period and they didnt show the odd disorganization his did.But anyways it was just a metaphor sometimes great inventors dont always spell out their whole story tesla is famous for this in his patents but he is much more organized.
Secondly i stated the novel combination of devices and arrangements are indicative of a multiuse product and when people sell things in this world.. they love more options for the same device they have bought.
In those two statements i in no way shape or form meant he was hiding things to sell batteries. :)
Joe
@ Joe:
I agree with you. I think the patent office has done this type of stuff many times before, and since. If you applied for a patent for an "anti-gravity" device, they might kick it back to you and say that you have to re-name it. So, you come up with: "A device for minimizing the gravitational effects on a stationary body at 1 g." and they grant you the patent.
I think the government should establish the United States Open Source Office. (USOSO) This would be a clearing house for all open source devices in order to insure the original inventors received credit for their inventions. Nothing else, just the credit. Ah, if only the government would listen to me once in a while.
Bill
Joe:
I found this on the link you posted on the surplus shed. Is this what you had in mind? check out the specs. It says it will run on .5 volts, 10mA. We have that and more. The price is right too. This would work for your interrupter idea. Of course, you probably know all this already and have several of these motors. I posted this in case you didn't see it.
Bill
QUALITY MABUCHI HOBBY MOTOR
(select photo for larger views)
Item No: M2022P
Price: $0.99 or 10 for $6.00
QTY:
This is perfect for toys, robotics, solar power demos, and science projects. High quality model RF-500T-10750 by Mabuchi. Marked 5.9VDC, 10ma, but will run on 1.5v battery and on voltages up to at least 9VDC. These are low inertia, low current drain motors that are perfect for solar applications. One ad we saw indicates that they will run one month on a single "D" cell. Very versatile motor as we have seen claims that it will run on 0.5 volts up to 12 volts. 1950 RPM. We have large quantities of these so build them into your product and we'll supply them. Shaft is 2mm diameter by 10mm long. Motor is 31mm diameter by 20mm thick with 130mm long leads. Unused.
@Bill
Sure those would be good little motors to use but , the power req shouldnt be of issue with this..
The Primary coil on the earth battery does not feed power to the motor , remember this is important. I think some folks are getting confused as to the operation of the induction coil version.
We need to make and break the primary meaning on and off so the disk with the foil strips would do that well it would connect the wires and unconnect them just like you said we could use more strips for quicker on off's..
But this motor rotary disk gap would be powered by its own battery hooked to a potentiometer, or variable resistor, i think either would work, a speed control basically.
So this what folks need to know about the power readings were getting on our primary right now ,
1) higher is better. im thinking the volts will peak around 1.2 to 1.5 and as much amperage as possible.
2) The two wires in the primary arent acctually hooked to anything other than brushes that would be on either side of the disk with foil strips
3)After that part is done you will be able to have disk spinning at whatever speed you want it to eg the speed control knob
*** This is just the primary were talking about still ***
Next wind a secondary coil with normal plastic insulation of as many layers as you can.
Hook a meter set to ac ~ volts not dc to either end of the secondary coil so one lead doesent matter which on either side of the secondary coil
now comes the fun - Turn on your motor and bring the speed up slowly while watching the meter you should start to see immedate results and as well we will be able to easlily find if different freq/speed of motor yeild more power in the secondary. :)
If everyone already gets this im sorry i just wanted to be real clear
@ Joe:
Thanks for the clarification. That is what I thought we were doing with the exception of the separate battery. What would be the harm in powering the motor and pot circuit with the induction coil primary? I like the idea of self-contained. Wait, let me attempt to answer my own question. If we use 80% of the power generated by the primary to run the motor, we only have 20% left to feed to the secondary via induction and therefore our output will be much less. Is this correct?
I believe the info on the little hobby motor said you could run it 24/7 for over a month on a single D cell. That seems pretty good to me.
I have an idea for an easy interrupter disk configuration that would allow for many on/off in a single rotation. I will attempt yet another crude drawing later.
PS Thanks for saying the secondary could be insulated, I was not aware of that. Does it need to be solid or stranded or does it matter?
Bill
@ Bill
Yes your right about the power consumption :)
as far as the secondary its only interacting magnetically so any kind of regular plastic insulated wire is worth a shot. If you have ever seen a pbx room or phone closet in a business you might recall a bunch of different colored thin copper wires some striped and some solid of the same colors. The same wire is present inside a cat 5 network cable 8 wires i just used a single wire out of the bundle i had this wire already on a spool it was called hookup wire or something along those lines but anything of a smaller meaning thiner grade with many turns should work great.
Joe
@ Joe:
Thanks for the information. I should be able to find something suitable.
Here is a crude drawing of an interrupter disk idea. It can be whatever diameter desired. I was thinking of using a cd. You just simply glue (super glue) bare copper wire of suitable dia. in the spoke like layout and then alternately glue some dielectric material in between each "spoke". The insulating material could be the same size wire as the bare copper but insulated. This way when the brushes (flared stranded wire ends) come in contact with the copper wire, as it rotates, it will make/break many many times per revolution. Using your idea for a potentiometer, we would have a wide range of frequencies to play with. One has to be careful when using super glue on the copper. This does not conduct so you have to keep it off of the top contact surface, or sand it off later before gluing on the dielectric material. There are many ways to construct something like this, I just wanted to submit one idea.
[ The two leads from the primary could be presented side by side such that they complete the circuit on the same
spoke of copper wire. ]
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 08, 2008, 11:44:17 PM
Are you soaking your coil in water? (the sink) My measurements were taken while the coil was under water. It continues to put out the same as it dries out, then gets less and less as it does so.
Bill
The sink?I just put it so the bottom of the bolt touches the stainless steel of the sink. My pipes are black plastic coming and going (Cheap manuf home from 70's). Maybe yours are iron going into the ground? anyway the uA count is rising. slowly but it has not stopped and it reads 29.3ua.
I got a meter from the hardware store that reads amps better than the other. It also does a transistor H
fe check. It still only has a high ac range, but it was $10. much better. This is the first time I can read mamps at all.
It's now 30.8ua
So, what do you read on the table in a jar, for instance?
thank you,
jeanna
@ Jeanna:
I used my bathroom sink. It is ceramic and I checked, it does not conduct at all. I have no jars or buckets large enough to fit the entire coil so I used the sink. The stainless might be shorting something for you possibly. Maybe not.
It was so funny when my friend was over here. He had been a tech at IBM for a very long time. He said that with my leads sticking up out of the water, they were going to short out. They, of course, did not. I set the meter for a continuity check and he told me to place the probes into the water. I did. No connection at all. (I did this to prove that the water would not complete the circuit between the test probes) With the coil completely under water and with my friend watching is when I obtained 19mA. He was astounded.
My pipes are copper and pvc. No connection to ground from the bathroom sink at all. Once wet, I can carry it in and lay it on a table and it still keeps putting out, for quite some time too.
Sounds like a great deal on your new meter. I have seen nothing like it in my area.
Bill PS On the table, once wet, it reads between 12 and 14 mA.
@ Jenna
Mine has been in a plastic ricotta cheese container with water from the start i never used a sink or anthing bills is fine because its ceramic but jenna you might be shorting yourself out.. with that bolt to ground how i dont know but try in plastic container on table and if still no luck breakdown and use cotton fabric :)
@Bill
That idea looks nice in concept a lot segments is the main point you described , but i think its gonna be a pain in the ass with wire for now jsut try the foil if your making one and smooth it the best you can i think that will be much easer just to get started with . :)
Joe
@ Joe:
Thanks. "A pain in the ass"? Hey, after winding this new coil and keeping everything insulated and untangling my wire spools, making this thing will be a walk in the park. Ha ha.
An easier method might be to use something similar to a pc board kit. Place the electroplated mastic material over the cd, or whatever, disk and etch out the interruption lines as you would when making a board. It would be flatter and you could easily keep everything symmetrical. Just a thought.
@ Hans:
I have not seen you here lately. I hope you are doing well.
Bill
Quote from: Localjoe on February 09, 2008, 04:01:56 PM
@ Jenna
Mine has been in a plastic ricotta cheese container with water from the start i never used a sink or anthing bills is fine because its ceramic but jenna you might be shorting yourself out.. with that bolt to ground how i dont know but try in plastic container on table and if still no luck breakdown and use cotton fabric :)
Joe
All right, Joe
What exactly am I supposed to be trying to find. I have similar but lower readings. I think it makes sense because I have less metal.
You don't think it makes sense for some reason.
The idea that I am shorting out by using the steel of the sink does not make any sense to me. I cannot understand what it is that you think is so unusual about what I am doing?
Please explain yourself. And don't assume anything, just tell me what you want to tell me.
thank you,
jeanna
jeanna,
i know it doesn't make alot of since, but i ran into a situation in my manufactured home, doublewide, as they call it here in alabama, where i got a shock, like a static shock, only contstant, from a small cut on my arm, to the stainless sink. i never really worried about it, or really thought about it at the time. have you checked the voltage on the sink? if there is any, it might be throwing your readings out of whack. just give it a try.
lol
sam
ps: keep up the good work!!!
Hello guys and gal,
I couldn't help myself, and while waiting on other parts for the magnet motor, I have begun to wrap my earth battery. I am very excited about the direction of things and Joe's revelations of the Stubblefields patents.
What will happen on the output side of the secondary when these babies are in the ground is anyones guess. I will be a part of finding that out. I will be wrapping my secondary with LITZ wire, 675 individually insulated strands of wire. I already have it.
I have nearly finished my first layer of wrappings, and I am planning five layers. It is the mother of all earth batteries, being 18 inches in length, with a 1/2 inch core made of Iron. I wanted to be true to the patent and see if I see a difference compared to the Zinc bolts that others are using.
Cheers all,
Bruce
Quote from: Bruce_TPU on February 09, 2008, 09:00:12 PM
being 18 inches in length, with a 1/2 inch core made of Iron. I wanted to be true to the patent and see if I see a difference compared to the Zinc bolts that others are using.
Cheers all,
Bruce
Thank you, Bruce
jeanna
Quote from: supersam on February 09, 2008, 07:09:37 PM
jeanna,
have you checked the voltage on the sink? if there is any, it might be throwing your readings out of whack. just give it a try.
lol
sam
ps: keep up the good work!!!
Thanks Sam, I have been taking most of my indoor tests using a jar (various jars cuz I made 4 cells) on my table. It was only that last one that gave slightly higher mA readings that I used on the sink just to see if it meant anything.
Thank you,
jeanna
PS How would I check the voltage on the sink? between the sink and the stove about 2 ft away it is about 225mv. The sink is attached to the septic and ground by plastic pipes coming and going. The stove is electric. The house rests on 2 steel I beams that are anchored to a concrete base. It is a faraday cage too - covered in metal. Cell phones turn off and declare there is no signal when they are inside my house.
If you can figure out what it means please say. I haven't a clue. Thank you j
@ Jenna
Ive told you 5 times what i think ;D again use some fabric and forget the tape i think that is hindering your results adhesive forms a minimal watertight barrier when it is pressed on to a surface. I would really try something like fabric, cloth or those tube things i found at the diy audio store. I think your current readings meaning amperage are being limited by your insulator on the copper. and i would just use a plastic container to rule out the sink thing. Since we dont know what the bolt does yet i would assume that it may not be a good thing to let other metal come in contact with it.. For control reason's while testing.
@Bruce
Im happy you have rejoined us- coil looks good and hopefully you secure some great results.
@bill
Good thinking about the pcb stuff... what about that little pen that looks like paint but is conductive ink. so you can draw circuits, radio shack sells them i think.
Joe
Quote from: Localjoe on February 10, 2008, 01:29:25 PM
.. what about that little pen that looks like paint but is conductive ink. so you can draw circuits, radio shack sells them i think.
Joe
WOW what a good idea
One of the old time recipes for ink is iron and tea.
The mixture of the tannic acid with the iron make dark black stain. but if it is iron it will be conductive or magnetic.
cool
I got some materials today, so I will give it a try. I couldn't for the life of me find bare iron wire, or pure iron rods, so I got the regular bolt. (I know Jenna..hehe)
I've been very interested Leedskalnin lately and rereading his book over and over.
I found these two paragraphs interesting..
"Transformers and generators are making the currents in the same way,
by filling the iron core with magnets and letting the iron core push
them out and into the coil."
"Connect the battery with electric magnet for a little while, now
disconnect the battery, connect the light bulb with the electric magnet the
same way it was connected with the battery, now pull off the six-inch long
bar, do it quickly, then you will see light in the bulb."
Its interesting he also states that the energy is already in the wire, relative to what SM said about "kicks".
@ Joe:
That might be an even easier thing to do! Great idea. That might be the same stuff you can buy at an auto store to repair the rear window defroster. It is a thick conductive paint that you re-connect the broken lines on the window with. Our brush pick-up idea will/should not put much wear on the surface. I think I am going to go with your idea on this one. I can easily mask some lines on a cd surface and paint and voila. Excellent.
@ Freezer:
Yes, I am a big fan of Ed's as well. I have copies of his book and some of his writings here. He was another one that was way ahead of his time. Try what I did. Take a magnet to the store with you when shopping for materials. This helped in many ways. First, when I thought I found some bare copper wire at a hobby store, it was labeled "copper wire", the magnet stuck to it readily. so, that told me it had an iron core and was NOT copper. Next, I went to a home center and asked for iron wire. The "iron wire" they directed me to would NOT react with my magnet at all. I found some fence wire that my magnet was very strongly attracted to so I bought it. I found some "iron" rebar but, it was very weak on the magnet test so I bought a galvanized spike, 12" long, that once I placed the magnet near it, I could barely pull it off. This told me it was very high in iron so that is what I used. I know you know all this already, but I am glad I just happened to think of carrying one with me otherwise I would have copper coated iron wire instead of solid copper and very little iron in my iron wire and core.
@ Bruce:
I am concerned that you will break all of the records here with your large coil. (Big grin) Actually, I hope you do, then we can be sure we are going in the correct direction. Based on the size and windings of Joe's and my coils and results, I will make a guess/prediction for yours: 33 mA and 1.2 vdc for the primary. I have no idea about the secondary output. Too many variables as far as the frequency of the interrupter mechanism is concerned. Best of luck with it.
@ Jeanna:
Did I read your post correctly? You have voltage between your sink and the oven? Be very careful over there. you may have some internal short in the stove's wiring or something bleeding back into the neutral or ground circuit. Did you check it for amps? It is lucky you discovered this. I would have a good electrician check that out. It could be caused by a number of things, none of them good. I think Joe is right about your tape sealing off the copper too much. I know your coils are smaller than ours but, based upon loosed and wild guessing, I think you should be seeing at least 8-10 mA or something in that neighborhood. I agree that maybe we should not have tossed the zinc coating (galvanized) into the mix but since there is no contact, I was hoping that the fact that my core is very high in iron would be all that mattered. It will be interesting to see what Bruce's device puts out. If nothing else, you could try the cotton string like George and I are using for separating the wires as you wind them. This also is not on the patent, and if I had more money available right now, I would stick closer to it. I am not straying to be creative and get ahead, it is only out of necessity. But, necessity is the mother of invention, right? :)
Bill
Quote from: Freezer on February 10, 2008, 02:03:13 PM
I got some materials today, so I will give it a try. I couldn't for the life of me find bare iron wire, or pure iron rods, so I got the regular bolt. (I know Jenna..hehe)
I've been very interested Leedskalnin lately and rereading his book over and over.
I found these two paragraphs interesting..
"Transformers and generators are making the currents in the same way,
by filling the iron core with magnets and letting the iron core push
them out and into the coil."
"Connect the battery with electric magnet for a little while, now
disconnect the battery, connect the light bulb with the electric magnet the
same way it was connected with the battery, now pull off the six-inch long
bar, do it quickly, then you will see light in the bulb."
Its interesting he also states that the energy is already in the wire, relative to what SM said about "kicks".
@ Freezer
It is called "magnetic remnance". Nothing new. Sorry. ;)
Now, take that transformer or two of them and pop opposing signal into them and... Or take two of these, wired in reverse of one another, buried in the ground, and the imagination goes to dreamin...
Cheers,
Bruce
@Bruce
My core is only six inches long and im peaking 20 ma .... with only two layers.. yours should be upwards of a couple hundred ma if the output is proportional to surface area ;D
Joe
I was about to send in a synopsis of all my readings so far. (It is easier to understand when they are all in one place.) But I got a very low figure in the last coil battery I made, and waited til this morning to be sure of a short.
full report to date
I have 4 spikes. only 3 are worth much but I will describe all four with their numbers.
1) 12" iron spike ~ 3/8 inch diameter
covered with COTTON cloth
Wrapped 'bifilar' with open Fe wire and plastic insulated Cu.
2 rows cotton cloth separating the rows, not closely wound. DRY
This was from the first night of Joe's 'discovery'.
There is zero everywhere. Only when I connect the probes across the Cu wire and the Fe stake, then I get 24mvdc
2) 12"iron spike ~3/8" diameter
covered with SILK cloth. All Cu wire is covered with SILK cloth and the rows between layers are SILK cloth.
Closely wrapped bifilar with iron wire 19 gauge and Cu wire 18 gauge.
3 1/2 layers, about 4 in coil length.
No Secondary. WET
286mvdc
100mvac
12uamp
Later after I added a secondary on a spool so it could be removed
240mvdc
0.0mvac
10.6uamp
3)6" galvanized iron bolt 3/8" diameter
covered with SILK cloth. All Cu wire is covered with SILK cloth and the rows between layers are SILK cloth.
Closely wrapped bifilar with iron wire 19 gauge and Cu wire 18 gauge.
3 1/2 layers, about 4 in coil length. WET
60.9mvdc
if terminals are shorted zero
222mvdc Cu wire to zn bolt
(53mvac ? - not written down ac or dc )
The last layer of windings was uneven so the secondary is uneven. As much as possible many layers of mag wire are piled on top of each other but spnning around 3 inches. ~200 wraps 24gauge mag wire. WET
394mvdc
300mvac
150uamps => going down slowly but steadily
ABOUT THIS TIME I DID A WIRE CONTROL TEST
Cu pipe - Zn bolt = 780mvdc
Cu wire - Zn wire = 290mvdc
4)6" galvanized(zinc) iron bolt 1/2" diameter
covered with cloth TAPE. All Cu wire is covered with cloth TAPE and the rows between layers are cloth TAPE.
Closely wrapped bifilar with galvanized (zinc coated) iron wire 18 gauge and Cu wire 18 gauge.
3 1/2 layers, about 4 in coil length. WET
terminals 5,6:
540mvdc
500mvac
9-10 uamp
------
Terminals 10 galv iron/ Cu:
600mvdc
700mvac
12.5uamp
Added a cardboard tube wound with 70 turns of Cu mag wire WET
685mvdc
800mvac
0.03mamp (26.3uamp)
but this has produced a short. over time. I suppose it is the wet cardboard:
22mvdc
0mvac
17uamp
Cu - zn bolt 150mvdc
ALL, REPEAT ALL THESE READINGS WERE MADE IN GLASS JARS. (THERE WAS NO SINK)
jeanna
This is a photo of my 12" long primary. 2 layers of bifilar windings of 55 turns each wire. (110 total for the coil)
@ Joe:
My guess on Bruce's output (it was just a wild guess) was based on my 19mA at 12" with 2 layers. His is longer and has more layers so hopefully, your guess will be more accurate.
Bill
Another view of the primary. All 100% cotton insulated.
Bill
OK I didn't want to make a whole post about my name but oh well,
Joe, and now Freezer,
I call myself Jeanna. You could write it jean-na, but don't bother. It is pronounced like the Italian Gina.
OK?
jeanna :D
Fine then
My name for all future references on this thread is Johnny Foongats
Quote from: Bruce_TPU on February 09, 2008, 09:00:12 PM
Bruce
Bruce,
NS states on p1 lines 13-15 that he is making a constant primary current but also an induced momentary secondary current.
Is the presence of the heavy iron bolt keeping enough magnetism going in the system to make the secondary the essentially useful part? or would you say that the secondary is there just to feed back to the primary?
Do you suppose the momentary secondary current is so fast that it would seem constant?
jeanna
@ Bill & Jeanna
I hope it does produce some power. But the real test is with the secondary being pulsed under the ground. It makes me think of an AC transformer, self powered, mixing with the Telluric currents under ground. How it will all shake out is anyones guess. Later we should tune the coils with a cap, to resonate at the frequency we are pulsing the primary. I also have some other simple ideas, but first things are first. ;)
I have completed three layers of wrappings and I am starting on the fourth layer. I am off to buy one more thing of copper wire. Total copper and iron wire will be 63 feet, each type of wire, at the end of the fifth layer. Very tedious work wrapping the copper wire, but I have high hopes! (as always! ;D )
Cheers,
Bruce
@ Bruce:
Yes, tedious is a good word for it. You are building the largest mass we have tried thus far I believe. This will be interesting. I hope you have checked each layer for shorts as you go. I did and I am glad. I found one little one on my first layer before I wrapped it and began the second. Of course, with your tpu experience, I am sure you knew this already. Anyway, a little late for me to say it now right? Ha ha.
I agree about the telluric currents when we get them in the ground. If we can hit the resonance frequency of our coils who knows what we might see? I have followed Dr. Stifflers work some and I see many leds illuminated but, only at the specific and correct resonance freq.
If you are buying more wire, how are you planing to add to the existing wire? I mean, I know you can solder the copper, no problem there, but if I want to add another layer, I would also need to somehow solder the iron wire as well. Some folks have said I could maybe silver solder it, or use the mapp gas and regular plumber's solder and flux. I very weel might want to continue my windings at a later date.
Again, best of luck with your large induction coil. This will be fun.
Bill
Anybody ever tried to bury a real transformer and test it? I got a couple from old microwaves that were given to me. Think I'm gonna bury one and see if I get any voltage or current, then if I dont, maybe build one of these coils like yall are building, hook it to the transformer and see what I get if anything. Worth a try.
Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 10, 2008, 08:28:38 PM
@ Bruce:
Yes, tedious is a good word for it. You are building the largest mass we have tried thus far I believe. This will be interesting. I hope you have checked each layer for shorts as you go. I did and I am glad. I found one little one on my first layer before I wrapped it and began the second. Of course, with your tpu experience, I am sure you knew this already. Anyway, a little late for me to say it now right? Ha ha.
I agree about the telluric currents when we get them in the ground. If we can hit the resonance frequency of our coils who knows what we might see? I have followed Dr. Stifflers work some and I see many leds illuminated but, only at the specific and correct resonance freq.
If you are buying more wire, how are you planing to add to the existing wire? I mean, I know you can solder the copper, no problem there, but if I want to add another layer, I would also need to somehow solder the iron wire as well. Some folks have said I could maybe silver solder it, or use the mapp gas and regular plumber's solder and flux. I very weel might want to continue my windings at a later date.
Again, best of luck with your large induction coil. This will be fun.
Bill
Hi Bill,
The copper came in 25' sections, and I wrapped the ends and used silver solder. For my iron wire, it is that soft iron wire used for rebar ties in concrete work, and comes in a several hundred foot roll from Lowe's. So, my iron wire is one continuos piece, no breaks.
@ Mr. Spates
IMHO placing a transformer in the ground would have to be powered by something. Remember, that Stubblefield's is self powered by the different metal reaction of the transformer itself. What will happen on the secondary, is anyones guess...but I am hoping for good things. We are approaching new ground... (all pun intended! LOL)
Bruce
@Jeanna
Good catch on the patent..That is exactly how i think the base station transmitter works ive been putting together a theory as to how this works and had not really caught that quote but now looking at it .. "NS states on p1 lines 13-15 that he is making a constant primary current but also an induced momentary secondary current."
This is how i keep describing the base station transmitter to yall.....
Now to be a little technical
@ Bruce
Here goes part two of the theory i need to find out how the reverse operation works tho so here goes
- In the transmitter/base station model I know one thing for sure. The wires of 5 and 6 the copper and iron from the primary are shorted , this creates " a magnetic field inside and outside of the primary coil..
*** Key point *** Shorted primary wires = self sustaining electromagnet
I yell a ha
So by having the primary wires shorted we have induced a static mag field in the secondary. A microphone or telegraphic relay modulates this static field present in the secondary from the primary.
If this would be true so would the converse
- In the self generating induction coil the making and breaking of the primary coil is creating a magnetic feild thats going on off on off in the secondary not staying static.. this seems like a tesla coil in theory to me please correct me if im wrong but once we "fire" the gap at the proper freq-the resonate freq of the secondary or 1/4 wavelength ive seen both we should be able to achieve the electrostatic magnification effect so famous of his.
So thus far i could equate that the base station transmitter has a electromagnetic magnetic field that is static not changing and is modulated by the user physically speaking into the microphone
and in turn the induction coil has a rapidly changing magnetic field that is turned on and off by any of our various means. It would make complete sense that he achieved the power desired out of his secondary by winding it to a specific length and driving it to resonance through a built in relay....
How do relay's work think real hard folks. our primary coil could be used as a relay.. every time we make and break the wires or something preforms that task its like shooting a coil gun a pulse goes in a direction.. Remember magnetic field inside and outside is created when the primary wires are touched together .the small inherent power were seeing now in the primary coils wires is enough to drive the relay action. Now this again is old school and i would much rather use a rotary gap in this day in age. But I feel we should try both types rotary gap and relay to see which suits best :)
Hi Joe,
I will be using a relay for my make and break. I do not think we want a continuos voltage on the primary, or else the secondary is useless.
I do not know what will happen when we induce this transformer under ground. One could speculate. So I will.
Possible things that may happen:
A. Nothing. We see the same output from the secondary as we will in a tub of water.
B. We see the Telluric voltage and current we have seen before, of about 1 volt and a ma or two added to the output.
C. These earth batteries will be isolated and able to be wired in series and/or parallel.
D. We see the Telluric current sucked into the magnet collector on the secondary in large quantities.
E. We may need to add a cap to our coil (L/C) to bring it to the resonant frequency match of our make and break for greater output.
F. We may need to add a cap to bring our coil to the resonant frequency of the telluric current, to act as a receiver. And perhaps set our make and break to the identical frequency. This would give us same signals (identical frequencys) but with different power sources, colliding with one another over a self powered transformer. (You all know I am a big fan of this. I believe it is how Tesla powered the electric car. I think it is how the TPU works and I think it is what will make the Cook coil work.)
G. We wind two of these, and connect them in mobius fashion similar to cooks coil and see what happens. Both with make and breaks.
H. Without make and break you will have straight DC and nothing unusual. IMHO.
Anywho, we walk before we run, and test every scenario, several times and hope for something to be seen that is unusual.
Cheers,
Bruce
@ Bruce
Ive tested the the things which i have spoke of and they are reproducible effects. As well its ac in the secondary as i stated before have meter readings to prove it/ no scope tho. and nothing shows up on the secondary dc or ac until i make and break the primary - so consider that a path worth while ::) For the self generating induction coil
Joe
I have a request. I just don't think people understood what I was talking about when I talked of this before.
Yes, I have wimpy volts, but I have a magnetic field that is constant.
I know this because a N compass needle swings to the Fe wires 10 and 6. This happens on coils 2,3,and 4 but not at all on #1 which is the one that has 2 rows of windings but the wires are too far apart to produce a magnetic field.
It is there all the time wether or not 5 & 6 are shorted.
So, My request which is for everyone:
Please stand the coil up.
Move a compass toward the Fe wires of the primary and when you have a draw, move the compass around the coil 360 degrees, see if the N needle will circle this coil.
I think this is a magnetic field that is already constant. (yes, my voltage drops to zero for a short if I connect 5 to 6 and read the 10's)
I really don't know what to do with this, but I really want to know if everyone else is getting this magnetic field.
thank you,
jeanna
I just want to add this.......Tesla had a 6 foot antenna on the back the car he built., that means he was getting his energy from the air and not the ground,( I can only speculate what was in those tubes he used) sure the car was grounded by the car itself, so what he did with that car is exactly the opposite of what we are attempting to do here.
@ Jeanna:
That makes sense to me. If you take a nail and wrap copper wire around it and attach a battery to the wire, you have an electromagnet. (I know you already know this) So, what we have here is the small galvanic action or possibly something inherent in the bifilar windings that will create a magnetic field. My coil also influences the compass. I believe I posted that earlier somewhere when you first brought this to our attention. I have not tried shorting the cu and fe leads but it moves the compass anyway. If I read what Joe is saying correctly, the two Stubblefield devices are similar, but different. The transmitter/telephone is a shorted (as your experiment one was) coil which used the input from the microphone as an external driving device. The battery, is not shorted and therefore puts out the power from the primary to the secondary once the pulses are created by the make/break device. (My apologies to Joe if I did not state this exactly correctly) As I said, this makes sense to me. The only question I have for you Jeanna is this: Do your coils influence the compass even when dry? Mine do not. Only when wet and producing electricity.
@ MrSpates:
Do you have any links on the Tesla electric car? I am not familiar with this device at all from any of my Tesla readings. I knew about his remote controlled boat, and submarine, but not the car. I would love to read something about it.
@ Bruce:
Forgive my ignorance here but, how would a relay operate as a make/break device? The relays I am familiar with have 2 sets of coils and only close the circuit when power is applied, and release when power is disconnected. It seems one would still need a device to open and close the power to the relay. If this is not the case, I would love to learn about it. I have several small relays of the automotive type lying around. Could an automotive relay be modified to operate in a way similar to the device Hans posted?
Bill
@ Bill
I'm sorry Bill, I lost the link. The story was about where he took a friend out to an old barn somewhere, and there was this car ( a bearcat?) anyway it had a 30 hp electric motor in place of the gasoline engine and it had a six foot antenna on the back. He wouldn't tell his friend exactly how it worked, but he put some cylinders in a box under the dash and turned it on and let his friend drive it around the countryside and through the city. Claims it went 90 mph. They then returned the car to the barn and Tesla removed the cylinders, put them in a suitcase and left. That is the best I remember from the story. Perhaps someone here can direct you to a link. The best I can gather is he was getting energy from the air much like the drawings of his free energy generator, and running it through those cylinders and that was what powered the car.
Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 11, 2008, 12:28:03 AM
@ Jeanna:
That makes sense to me. If you take a nail and wrap copper wire around it and attach a battery to the wire, you have an electromagnet. (I know you already know this) So, what we have here is the small galvanic action or possibly something inherent in the bifilar windings that will create a magnetic field. My coil also influences the compass. I believe I posted that earlier somewhere when you first brought this to our attention. I have not tried shorting the cu and fe leads but it moves the compass anyway. Bill
Yes, thank you,
I think that if the people trying to make and break a magnetic field (Joe and Bruce at the moment) assume that there is not one, they will possibly be thrown off by the fact that there is one. I don't have a clue how to break up a magnetic field that persists, but that may be a necessary part of the break part of the design.
Yes dry-ish, It may be that they are only barely moist, but I think I noticed this before I wetted the #2 coil which is only a primary with 3 1/2 layers. and mine produce so little voltage. What about the rest of you with more substantial voltage. I assume the more voltage, the more force in the constant magnetic field that must be considered in the break design.
Any questions anyone? It is confusing to talk about these coils. I think there is built into these devices an inherent constant magnetic field. I would like to hear if this is true for everyone's devices.
thank you,
jeanna
PS I think the car story is on icehouse or cheniere websites
Thanks Jeanna and MrSpates. Here is a link I found to the Tesla electric car. fascinating reading.
http://keelynet.com/energy/teslafe1.htm (http://keelynet.com/energy/teslafe1.htm)
Bill
I am OK guys, thanks for your concern, just a few issues to battle with at the moment.
Be back full on shortly.
Hans
@ Bill
You are quite correct about the relay.
I want to attempt to use my micro TPU to power it. It has a runtime of 39 minutes from the touch of a battery. I can increase this time to days, simply by switching the cap to a super cap. I can loop back the earth battery power to keep the thing running forever, it requires such a small amount. Anyway, it may not be the best way, but it will be the quickest for me, to give a proof of concept.
EDIT: The micro TPU pulses DC. at low frequency.
@ Joe
Of course I understood you tested it and showed voltage on the secondary. My whole little premise was: What happens under ground? None of us know that yet, so I was simply speculating on what might or might not happen. I know we will see voltage on the secondary. But will it be considerably more buried? That is yet to be seen. I hope so, of course. ;)
Cheers,
Bruce
Quote from: MrSpates on February 11, 2008, 12:55:04 AM
@ Bill
I'm sorry Bill, I lost the link. The story was about where he took a friend out to an old barn somewhere, and there was this car ( a bearcat?) anyway it had a 30 hp electric motor in place of the gasoline engine and it had a six foot antenna on the back. He wouldn't tell his friend exactly how it worked, but he put some cylinders in a box under the dash and turned it on and let his friend drive it around the countryside and through the city. Claims it went 90 mph. They then returned the car to the barn and Tesla removed the cylinders, put them in a suitcase and left. That is the best I remember from the story. Perhaps someone here can direct you to a link. The best I can gather is he was getting energy from the air much like the drawings of his free energy generator, and running it through those cylinders and that was what powered the car.
@ Mr. Spates
No antenna! ;)
Wire, 12 Vacuum tubes and resistors!"At the appointed time, Nikola Tesla arrived from New York City and inspected the Pierce-Arrow automobile. He then went to a local radio store and purchased a handful of tubes (12), wires and assorted resistors. A box measuring 24 inches long, 12 inches wide and 6 inches high was assembled housing the circuit. The box was placed on the front seat and had its wires connected to the air-cooled, brushless motor. Two rods 1/4" in diameter stuck out of the box about 3" in length.
Mr. Tesla got into the driver's seat, pushed the two rods in and stated, "We now have power". He put the car into gear and it moved forward! This vehicle, powered by an A.C. motor, was driven to speeds of 90 m.p.h. and performed better than any internal combustion engine of its day! One week was spent testing the vehicle. Several newspapers in Buffalo reported this test. When asked where the power came from, Tesla replied, "From the ethers all around us". Several people suggested that Tesla was mad and somehow in league with sinister forces of the universe. He became incensed, removed his mysterious box from the vehicle and returned to his laboratory in New York City. His secret died with him!"
EDIT:@ Jeanna
You are correct. My core is bone dry and magnatized. That is interesting... I have to think about that. I have one more layer to wrap, tonight.
@ Bruce
Thats a different story from the one I read, most of it was the same but in my story, he and his friend rode on a train to get to the town where the barn was. Tesla already had his cylinders in a suitcase with him on the train, also in my story theres was a 6 ft pole antenna (wonder if he tied a raccoon tail on the end of it?) and his friend drove the car not Tesla. The box with the 3 inch rods sticking out was the same and everything else seems to match up, or maybe it was a different article about the same car, but no matter. :)
@Hans
Glad to hear your ok and all is getting back to the norm for you :)
@Bruce
Sorry if i repeated myself, so you confirm as well as jeanna that this thing is magnetized not wet. hmmmmmmmm Ok the only thing that comes to mind yet again is that this thing has to be a capacitor. in part. Jenna showed small readings with the thing dry , it was just milivolts but weird to have dc at that point. Air is a dielectric just like water except its constant is a little higher. Waters is lower and therefore lets more charge appear on the primary terminals..
Note to all
When i have tried putting power into my battery via a 3v battery pack in a relay setup shit started bubbling so im going to say be careful. I dont think it was the intention of ns to have any extra power fed in this primary, the way im seeing this it would change the type of reaction that is happening.
Just a thought
The Stubblefield battery might be doing the same thing as the antenna that this URL describes
http://www.amasci.com/tesla/tesceive.html
gary
@ Joe:
Yes, I posted a little while back that I, for some reason, decided to hook up a 9v battery to my first coil. (single layer) It made what sounded like a high frequency squeal and also, some bubbling, sizzling noises as well. I did not leave it connected long. I have no idea what that was. This was before my salt trick. I might just be behaving like a resistance heater of some sort. I don't think this is related to our efforts anyway, but it was interesting none the less.
@ Hans:
Good to see that you are ok. I was beginning to worry that the CIA, or the like, had taken you into custody or something. (Grin)
@ Jeanna:
I just re-ran your compass test with my second coil not that it is totally dry. Yes, it spins the compass! when presented with the top to the left (Head of the spike) it rotates the compass clockwise, and when presented the opposite way, it turns it counter-clockwise. This is the first time the coil has been totally dry but it does still show a magnetic field. Interesting.
@ Bruce:
That would be fantastic if you were able to have a self-contained system with the coil and the TPU! I have been wanting to bury this new coil with just the secondary windings to see if there are any increases in primary output. If I get the time, I might give that a try.
Bill
Here is a link to a helical coil calculator from a Tesla site. This looks really good for our uses.
http://deepfriedneon.com/tesla_frame6.html (http://deepfriedneon.com/tesla_frame6.html)
Bill
Sorry. I just tested the link. You have to click on the helical coil icon once you get to the page I posted. there appears to be some other useful tools on the first page as well.
*Duplicate post removed*
Hey all,
I am at work, and when I get home, I may post some photos.
I want to retest the core. When I laid the coil flat/horizontal, I tested the top left core and the compass turned to the core. I tested the top right of the core and nothing!?
I then tested the bottom right and it spins the compass, but the bottom left does not. I want to retest as soon as I get home, because it makes no sense to me at all.
I tested for volts and it read .002 and zero ma's. Strange that it is magnatized at all, and the top north and south of the core seems to be opposite of the bottom north and south and seems to be diametrically magnetized. Is that even possible? ??? :o
Anyway, I will restest and then post photo's showing the compass.
Cheers all,
Bruce
hmm... so a magnetic field is produced? Just a wild thought... does attaching a permanent magnet
to the magnetic core have any effect?
(probably not, but hey it seems an easy test ;))
and about that Tesla electric car, I seem to recall reading that he had the electric motor specially made for that car...
Since he was the guy who basically designed most of Westinghouse's generators and motors and invented AC generators
and motors, I think you should consider the possibility (or should I say probability) that Tesla designed the motor to work
as a motor/generator, with the box mainly used as a controller/regulator unit.
Now if we then consider the (alleged) connection between the Tesla switch schematics and the Brand switch, and the connection between
those and the Bedini switching circuitry, then it doesn't seem very farfetched to suppose that Teslas box with what clearly were various
germanium "diode" tubes and an adjustable inductance coupler (the two "rods" that could be moved in and out of the box, most likely
coils with cores) to control throughput current... But hey, that's just a thought ;)
Quote from: Bruce_TPU on February 11, 2008, 03:32:29 PM
Hey all,
I then tested the bottom right and it spins the compass, but the bottom left does not. I want to retest as soon as I get home, because it makes no sense to me at all.
I tested for volts and it read .002 and zero ma's. Strange that it is magnatized at all, and the top north and south of the core seems to be opposite of the bottom north and south and Bruce
Thank you so much for doing this test, BruceI tried to make pics last week but they are so small.
here is the set of pics for easier comparison with Bruce's:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3500.1190.html (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3500.1190.html)
Notice that all the spikes are aligned east-west so not to be confounded by the earth's north.
(Later I decided that it is less confusing to put it upright, but you may not agree with that)
Notice I
drew the compass readings to make it easier to see. The flash was in the way.
After Bruce posts his, I can repost the most relevant ones in bigger format, if that makes it easier to compare.
jeanna
PS Koen 1 It is not a bad idea to add a magnet just to see, but FOLKS,
please do the compass check test first, you don't want any residual magnetism to be confusing your results.
@ All:
I have already added a neo to my core and did not realize any noticeable changes. I did this last week for yet another "what if" experiment. I did not check with the compass while doing this as it seems obvious to me that it would effect the compass as it is a very strong magnet.
Bill
Hello all,
Back to the bench. I retested my voltage (dry) and it is .02 volts. No ma's. The following pictures make no sense to me, especially where the compass points away from the coil on the right side where you see most of the fourth tier of winding. Each picture is titled with it's description.
I need to finish winding now. Will check in later.
P.S. I bought my relay from Radio Shack tonight.
Cheers,
Bruce
Edit:
Well, I have run out of copper wire, again. :( I have one half of the fifth and final wrap to go. I have so far used 75 feet of iron and copper wire. I probably will use about 15 feet or so, more to finish. I also have used 2 yards of 100% cotton and need 1 more yard of material.
I will finish tomorrow night and place it into some water for a voltage and amperage test. I will then remove it and wind my secondary onto it.
Winding this thing is hard. :-[ Weird that it can hold voltage being seeming completely dry. I'm getting about .3 volts without having even wet it. Maybe its the moister in the air or capacitance.
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg86.imageshack.us%2Fimg86%2F8094%2Fsc1aq5.jpg&hash=f3c7036542f6ab7ed9a43e937383894fd028cdc8)
Quote from: Freezer on February 11, 2008, 10:37:24 PM
Winding this thing is hard. :-[ Weird that it can hold voltage being seeming completely dry. I'm getting about .3 volts without having even wet it. Maybe its the moister in the air or capacitance.
Nice job. It looks authentic!
I agree winding them is hard.
Before you add any magnets, Freezer, please take readings all around the thing the way Bruce, did. This way we will be able to compare similar compass readings.
Beautiful job esp with the spool.
Thanks,
jeanna
It looks good Freezer!
I see that you are not running your layers in series. I think this is good. You will be able to test with them in parallel. I am curious as to what the differences will be. Mine are all in series as everyone knows.
Cheers,
Bruce
Thx guys. I hope its worth the winding hehe.
@Jeanna
I will take some readings all the around once finished.
@Bruce
I was thinking that each should flow in opposite directions to each pole at the ends. I will try hooking it up each of the 4 ways to test. I could go on forever with the layers, I guess I will max out the two wooden ends though.
Something interesting happened.
I think the upshot must be that my tap water lacks electrolyte.
( yesterday I received a pm from an EE who suggested adding salt in increments. The results were too strange to know how to report. but now that the coil is out of the salt water and moist It looks the way I think it should)
Have a look:
Right now the #3 coil which is silk insulated cu and zn-galvanized fe, and a zn bolt with a secondary of about 200 winds, has some normal looking results.
The voltage across the wires 5,6 is about 359 mvdc as before, but the voltage across the
cu wire 5 and the zn bolt is 700mvdc. This looks right to me.
To add to that there are 300uamps between 5,6 and there are
1.5mA between the cu wire 5, and the zn bolt.
(this contrasts sharply with 150uamps and going down from the earlier reading)
I have a recycled modem speaker that makes a crakling sound when connected to the cu wire 5 at its + side and the zn bolt on its - side.
The compass snaps into position S pointing to the bottom of the bolt and N pointing to both the bolt at the top and to the separate Fe wires 6, 10 at the top. It snaps sharply into place where before it swung into place. I would like to have a definitive way to measure this.
jeanna
@ Jeanna:
Oh no!!! Do not use salt!!!! I used very, very little and it shorted the entire works and all the reading went down near 0. Not only that, it will eat up the metal eventually. I soaked mine for several days in hot water, and all kinds of chemicals. It is just now starting to act like a normal coil again. (This was my # 1 coil, single layer)
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 12, 2008, 12:37:48 AM
@ Jeanna:
Oh no!!! Do not use salt!!!! Bill
I remember, but I was getting such low readings and folks were thinking I had a short anyway, so, I just tried it.
It is fine. I think. The readings are continuing to decrease as it dries. It is no longer .7vdc. it is a strange little puppy.
But that compass is amazing. I mean it snaps into place. What a strange thing we have here. ;) ;)
jeanna
PS I am adding phone wire 1 strand as Joe recommended as the secondary to my #2 coil. I split and separated the six wires out today, then started wrapping. Lotsawork. :D
@jeanna
Im sorry they sell that stuff on a small spool w/o the grey sheith but i used network cable i think you have cat 3 there still should be interesitng, i wouldnt bother with a secondary tho untill you have the ammt of layers bruce and freezer have on theirs, im still not winding one as i need longer legs of wire for my primary
@Freezer
Your's looks great , cant wait to hear results
@bruce
Only conclusion im coming two with your compass readings is that theres two feilds and its getting confused try like 5 inches away from the bolt in all the same positions you did and tell me if theres any difference this should shed a little more light on it.
:)
@ Joe
Reading is the same, just slower for the compass to adjust.
I am convinced that there are at least two magnetic fields. It is facinating.
Question:
How can a magnetic field be formed with no voltage or by using another magnet to magnetize the iron?? ???
That is a something for the lurkers to ponder, and myself as well.
Cheers,
Bruce
@ Freezer:
That is one heck of a coil there! That thing is going to weigh 20 pounds by the time you are done, ha ha. If that does not put out some serious mA, I don't know what would.
@ Bruce, Joe and Jeanna:
I was thinking more about the magnetic fields generated by our primary coils. This opens up a lot more possibilities I believe. It/they are very weak fields but, thanks to Jeanna, at least we know they are there. I wonder if we could take some very fine iron powder and lay a sheet of thin paper over our coil and sprinkle the iron dust onto the paper...would this show us the fields do you think? It would have to be very fine iron as I do not see, or feel, any magnetic attraction to iron by using my hands and fingers. Mine reacted similar to Bruce's which is very strange for the field to reverse by rotation along the axis or from end to end. Does this mean there is a null point or points where there is no field? What we have here is a weak electromagnet with no outside electric power. They sure didn't teach me about this in college physics.
@ Joe:
This will be very interesting to log the test results from the primary coils built by all of us. They are all similar but different. We may find that shorter and fatter, like Freezer's cell is better. Or, Longer like Bruce's cell might be the way to go. What I am trying to say is that we should keep track of our results which may change once outside and buried. This way, we can find the optimum configuration. Results should be coming in soon from everyone.
@ George:
How is your coil coming along? Yours also looks to be a thick wound coil which I may try next time around. You have a lot of surface area there. Keep us posted.
Bill
@Bill
They sell this stuff too i think it might be worth while its called magnetic viewing paper example at bottom http://scientificsonline.com/product.asp?pn=3082237&bhcd2=1202838753 (http://scientificsonline.com/product.asp?pn=3082237&bhcd2=1202838753)
@ Freezer
. Im kicking myself now for not breaking down and cutting two discs like that or at least what sid did with the plastic but i still need more copper so i'll have to do that on my next build, maybe not in sections but the discs should hold a nice wide coil real tight :)
Joe
G'day all,
I would not attach too much significance to your compass readings. Any piece of iron, magnetic or not, will influence a compass when in close proximity. This is why you cannot expect a true reading from an off the shelf compass in a steel boat. special adjustments have to be made first. It is quite an art.
You can test it for yourself. just take a small quantity of iron wire, wrap it around something or roll it in a ball and go near a compass with it, alternatively a steel bolt or anything else will do.
This is because the compass needle is a tiny bar magnet in itself and therefore will be attracted to iron in its proximity.
Hans von Lieven
Edit: The magnetic viewing film will give a true reading, since it is a passive device, unlike a compass needle.
@Joe Yea, to wind more you need support on the sides. I'm actually kicking myself for not making it bigger :-\ If people get decent results from this way, I will build another bigger cell in the same fashion with super wide discs, maybe like 2 feet, and with 6 gauge stranded. I think the way georgemay did it with the string and cloth is the best way. I did it the same as that as well. Basically I wound the copper first, then wound two cotton threads on each side, and then the iron wire between the space left between the two strings. Then I covered each layer with 2-3 turns of cheese cloth (100% cotton) which happened to be the exact width I needed. I used a glue gun to help keep the edges of the cloth secure, all you need are small little dabs. I still have some ideas on how to construct it better and easier, so maybe next time. I think the way Stubblefield did it was a good way too as his design you detach it self for repair.
@Bill, yes its starting to weigh a good amount. It feels good just holding it in my hand. I almost don't want to stick it into the dirt.
Quote from: hansvonlieven on February 12, 2008, 02:12:10 PM
G'day all,
I would not attach too much significance to your compass readings. Any piece of iron, magnetic or not, will influence a compass when in close proximity. This is why you cannot expect a true reading from an off the shelf compass in a steel boat. special adjustments have to be made first. It is quite an art.
You can test it for yourself. just take a small quantity of iron wire, wrap it around something or roll it in a ball and go near a compass with it, alternatively a steel bolt or anything else will do.
This is because the compass needle is a tiny bar magnet in itself and therefore will be attracted to iron in its proximity.
Hans von Lieven
Edit: The magnetic viewing film will give a true reading, since it is a passive device, unlike a compass needle.
Hi Hans,
Magnetic viewing film is a good idea.
And not to throw water on your theory above, if you look at the pictures above, you will see that the right side of my coil does not attract the N of my compass, but actually repels it.
I tried this again today, with half of my fifth layer and it is still that way. If the compass need were attracted to the iron, it should do so on the right side of the coil as well as the left. Anyway, one of those weird anomolies. IMHO.
Lowe's was out of 18 awg wire, (of course.) So I have purchased some 14 awg for the last half of the fifth winding. I am determined to finish it tonight and post some tests. I will soak mine in distilled water. It is an 80 rating for a dielectric constant. So I hope to see some great results. Of course, in the ground it will not be distilled water, but rain water keeping it moist. But it will make for a good experiment.
Then I will wrap my secondary. This should go pretty fast.
Cheers,
Bruce
QuoteIf the compass need were attracted to the iron, it should do so on the right side of the coil as well as the left. Anyway, one of those weird anomolies. IMHO.
I am not saying something strange is not happening here, it is just that in the vicinity of iron compass needles behave erratically. It really does not matter which pole is attracted, the south pole of a magnet will pick up iron exactly the same as the north pole. It is only when two magnets are involved that they repel each other with like poles.
Hans von Lieven
@ All:
You all might be thinking this way already but, in case not......I am going to wrap the last (2nd layer) wind of my coil with cotton material before I stick it in the ground for a primary test. This will not keep it spotless but it will help not to have all of the dirt in between all of the windings so when we dig up to wind the secondary, it will be a bit easier to clean. Just a thought.
Bill
@Bruce @ ALL
Sweet , im anxious to hear your results. Here is how i think this coil could provide its own voltage to actuate the relay.
Joe
@ Joe:
Nice drawing. Where is the electromagnet that will pull on the springy metal to close the circuit? And then, don't we need to have a contact that breaks the circuit (the power to the electromagnet) once the circuit is closed so it starts all over again?
Or, are you using the primary coil as the electromagnet? I am just trying to understand. Looks easy enough to do.
Bill
@ Bill
Yes the primary coil is the electromagnet no separate coil needed .. what happens when you short the wires momentarly is the central bolt in coil body 4 pulls the springy metal towards it then the metal springs back since the connection is broke and the process repeats on its own over and over..
This is what i keep trying to tell people when i say the primary coil itself is a modified induction coil with its legs pre energized.. no need for a battery . the patent clearly states when you short the wires 5 and 6 together that it turns into an electromagnet and when they come apart the effect would be nullified. on off on off. This is how i feel ns interrupted his primary . Yet a rotary gap would work just as well powered by something different. so im still going both avenues. The pictured relay's freq would depend on the length and gauge of wires used .. there resistance ect whereas the rotary gap could be made to run at whatever freq we want . so either way
well ive been tinkering again and tried a few more tests with water temp, well i placed a 400v 2uf cap between the terminals and plunged the whole thing in hot water again and got a small increase of about 20mv, then i plunged it in the cold water and there was a slight fluctuation, then came the strange thing... i took it out the water and the voltage started dropping slowly then rapidly crashed all the way to "0 vdc" then the voltage imediatley began to rise again but it had switched polarity?.
I removed the cap and tried but couldnt get the polarity to switch back, no matter what i did the copper had become the negative terminal and the iron was positive, so i replaced the cap and repeated the proceadure and the voltage crashed and then recharged and switched polarity once again?.
Any ideas on how or why this would happen?.
@ Joe:
OK. I got it now. Thanks for the explanation. The only reasons I might lean toward the rotary method is first, the variable range of freqs. and second, it would not draw down on any energy production to send to the secondary. I am not sure if the design in your drawing would lessen the energy we would have to pass to the secondary or not. I like looking at all approaches anyway. We can see which works best.
Bill
Quote from: Localjoe on February 12, 2008, 06:44:41 PM
@Bruce @ ALL
Sweet , im anxious to hear your results. Here is how i think this coil could provide its own voltage to actuate the relay.
Joe
I am pretty sure I am with you Joe.
If I understand this,
this is a nice simple spark gap type of thing.
(Simulatneous posts again!)
!!!!!!!!!
Isn't high voltage the thing we need to make this spark the gap?
Is a spark going to happen with 1 or 2 volts?
I think we need to look for a way that inherently activates some 'static' right here in the design. I think it is all right here.
@ Am I the only one that thinks that those beer cans on the stakes are these batteries? I mean the part under the sphere and over the hemisphere?
Also, NS said the secondary needed protection. From what? Could it be driving rain? or could it be the coronal discharge?
jeanna
@Bill
Exactly ;D
If we were to use the diagram hans posted with a separate induction coil and a battery i think we would incur those losses, but if the way i show in the diagram is used its should not affect the strength of it so to say. I agree with you about the rotary gap for ease so hopefully i will find an easy way to mount something light to the motors i have here ready to go. :)
Joe
Quote from: Chad on February 12, 2008, 07:56:49 PM
... so i replaced the cap and repeated the proceadure and the voltage crashed and then recharged and switched polarity once again?.
Chad,
I am not understanding the relevance of your tests to this NS battery.
Although I am also looking for a capacitance building a spark, I don't see what this hot water and reversed polarity is doing for you.
I am sure you understand why you are saying these things and trying these things, but I am not following.
Could you please explain the connection?
thanks
jeanna
@Jeanna
Yes your wrong about the relay..Not about a static air spark gap but thats not what were doing. Relay's will operate on low voltage its the speed they operate at that will affect the freq of the output in the secondary. anyways i have a little relay i built here like shown in hans's diagram and changed a little and it works off of 1.5 v aa nice and fast with a a cool little blue spark ;D
The insulation eg mica ceulloid for the secondary is real insulation so the wire isnt exposed. Plastic insulation or litz should do fine nylon is a plastic .. Mabey some other covering over the whole shebang once done :)
I dont think the beer cans have anything to do with this self generating induction coil i think they are part of the wireless transmitter setup
Hope that helps
Quote from: Localjoe on February 12, 2008, 08:15:28 PM
Yes your wrong about the relay.. they will operate on low voltage its the speed they operate at that will affect the freq of the output in the secondary. anyways i have a little relay i built here like shown in hans's diagram and changed a little and it works off of 1.5 v aa nice and fast with a a cool little blue spark
O K excellent
The insulation eg mica ceulloid for the secondary is real insulation so the wire isnt exposed. Plastic insulation or litz should do fine nylon is a plastic ..
Is that the nonmetallic contact?
I dont think the beer cans have anythign to do with this self generating induction coil i think they are part of the wireless transmitter setup
O K
Could you go into some detail about the nonmetallic contact? I see copper and a metal screw in your drawing, yet it says non-metallic contact.
Thanks
jeanna
I just went to wiki on electronic relay.
I do not have the answer but I see that I keep asking the same question.
I will try to study up a bit and not bother with these questions.
But
If someone could point the way for an easy to build relay so I can do it and watch it, I will try it before continuing.
Maybe Hans already did?
Joe, is yours an easy design? I have a tiny bit of experience building circuits - just lots of holes in experience and understanding esp AC.
thank you,
jeanna
@ Jeanna:
I'll try to help. First, look at Joe's drawing. (I am going from memory here as you can't see drawings while posting) What you have is a connection being made between the copper and the iron wire via a flexible conducting material. When that connection is made, it turns the primary into an electromagnet which then draws the flexible metal strip back down toward it which then breaks the copper/iron wire connection which allows the strip to go back and make the connection again, and so on. Very similar to the bell picture I posted a while back. Same principal. Joe's design is exactly like Hans's except that it does not use and external battery or coil other than the one we built for the primary.
Also, as Joe said, this design is very dependent upon the coil configuration (wire dia. length, number of layers, etc.) to determine the frequency at which the make/brake takes place. The rotary design allows for more variance in this area. I hope this helps. (Edit: it is a non-magnetic contact, not non-metallic)
Bill
@ Joe:
How do you plan on starting the make/break cycle? Moving the metal strip with your finger? A switch to close the circuit initially? Jeanna raised this question to me and I was not really sure. I can see how it could be done, but did not know what you were planning. Thanks.
Bill
Evening all,
Well, after long hours, and several sore fingers, the coil is complete and soaking in a water bath to test it. I have decided to wait a day or two before winding the secondary. I want to do as Bill, and test it in the dirt first, pull it, and wrap it with a secondary.
Water Bath test:
Submerged
Voltage .410
Amperage 11.3 ma's
I think it will climb as it continues to soak. I used a Rebar Iron for my center. Even though my totals seem less then some using zinc core, I hope that it will assist with the voltage on the secondary , having an iron core, when pulsed underground.
Testing:
1) My copper wire is the positive and my iron wire is the negative.
2) When touched together, and held shorted, the voltage and amperage go to zero. When touched quickly, the ma's drop to between 2 and 4 and then straight back up.
When let loose, of course the amperage and voltage goes back to what it was.
Picture below is of completed coil. Except for the outer wrapping of cotton fabric that I have since added.
Cheers,
Bruce
@ Bruce:
Nice large coil there. I am somewhat shocked that your numbers were not higher. Did you try a magnet on your core at any time prior to winding? The reason I ask is that when I went to Lowe's Home center, the "iron re bar" they showed me had very little iron in it. My "zinc" coated iron spike has mostly iron, very high content. That is why I went with the galvanized iron spike. But, we don't know what will happen in the ground do we, so possibly the re bar is better and the zinc coating may muck things up. Remains to be seen. It is freezing rain out now and about 23 degrees going even lower tonight. I might not be able to bury anything for a few days.
Let me know if/when your readings go up after soaking. You have many more layers than I so possibly it takes time to saturate. Best of luck to you Bruce. (Edit) PS where are your other two wire ends? I was just re-looking at you photo and only see two leads? I think there should be 4 correct? (2 ends of cu and 2 of fe)
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 12, 2008, 11:23:44 PM
@ Bruce:
PS where are your other two wire ends? I was just re-looking at you photo and only see two leads? I think there should be 4 correct? (2 ends of cu and 2 of fe)
Bill
Hi Bill,
Yes, I tried a magnet on the rebar. Pretty confident it is iron. Same with the wire.
As far as there being four leads, I have two buried at the start of my first wrap. From what I understood, those were not used for anything. JOE is that correct, or not? I thought the make and break goes between the one iron and one copper, is that wrong or right?
Bruce
@ Bruce:
Yes, let Joe answer that question. I will say that my understanding is that you tie both cu and fe together and then those are the make/break leads. that is why I started my second coil at the top so, with the second layer, I would end up back at the top. (My first coil has 2 leads at the top, and 2 at the bottom) I guess they could be left open. All of my tests for voltage, etc. have been only with any 2 leads, not with them tied together, which I have not done yet so, it probably will not matter. I just wanted to make sure you didn't tie them together or something. Nevermind.
PS These are a pain to wind are they not?
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 13, 2008, 12:11:14 AM
@ Bruce:
Yes, let Joe answer that question. I will say that my understanding is that you tie both cu and fe together and then those are the make/break leads. that is why I started my second coil at the top so, with the second layer, I would end up back at the top. (My first coil has 2 leads at the top, and 2 at the bottom) I guess they could be left open. All of my tests for voltage, etc. have been only with any 2 leads, not with them tied together, which I have not done yet so, it probably will not matter. I just wanted to make sure you didn't tie them together or something. Nevermind.
PS These are a pain to wind are they not?
Bill
Hey Bill,
Don't scare me like that! LOL I was picturing myself trying to dig those two ends out.
And yes they are a pain to wrap. I think I will try it your way next time. Wrapping the copper all around with the cloth was very tedious.
So Bill, is you center core one of those galvanized nail spikes? How long is it, and I think I read you have two layers. What size copper did you use (gauge)?
Cheers,
Bruce
@ Bruce:
Sorry for the scare. My iron (galvanized) spike is 12" long and 1/2" dia. I used 22 ga. cu and close to the same iron wire. (There was no number on it) Yes, it looks like a giant nail. I think they are used for nailing landscape timbers together or something. Well, I just measured the wires with a micrometer and the copper is .040" and the iron is .045". Like I said, I really did not want to throw the zinc coating into the mix but, when you test this with a neo it jumps to it and does not want to let go. The re bar they had would not even hold the weight of the small neo magnet itself when placed on the side of it. I guess we will see. I hate to think of wrapping another one but, I am sure once we figure out what is best, I will be doing so.
Bill
deleted post
@All
Had some stuff going on i had to deal with sorry i wasn't back earlier.
Well i'll go back a page and start answering here
@jeanna
What bill said was right and non magnetic contact so the springy metal doe sent stick on its way back up. I actually labeled the wires like in the patent for my drawing. Only thing bill said in error was that the wires 10 were shorted.. gave bruce a pretty good scare but they are just buried in the ground not shorted.. Thats why when your looking at induction coils this isnt going to look normal yet it still works.. The secondary will be connected to a load so it has nothing to do physically with the primary or relay except the lengths to determine freq, dont worry about your length right now just wing untill you get enough amperage to start the relay. somewheres around a couple hundred milliamps should do.
@Bill
Thanks for listening :) The relay should start on its own and all that should be needed to stop it is to disconnect one of the primary wires from where i show them being connected the other ends leads 10 are left open to preserve the character of the electrodes.
@Bruce
hmmmm im assuming that my wire is iron but im starting to think im wrong ..maybe steel? this stuff is shiny silver and has about 10 strands twisted together. at min .125 inches in diam but its a lil bigger i think theres no freakin markings anywhere on this old spool ive looked so i guess the best i can say is i will post a close up pic of the wire im using with ruler , its about the same diameter as a bic pen. and the copper is a little smaller in diameter.
Joe
Hi Joe,
Your wire looks like steel cable. Iron wire would be black. It looks like you have one winding over your nail. I will get some steel wire today, and try the same thing. This way I can test both coils. If we can make it work with steel and galvanized, that would be better. I am already seeing rust marks on the cloth on my coil. I have taken it out of the water.
Tonight I will wind a second coil to test with.
Iron may be all that Stubblefield had access too. Or it may turn out iron is what is needed underground. We will see.
Cheers,
Bruce
@ Joe:
When I said " You tie both cu and fe wires together" I meant to each other, meaning both my copper leads will tie together and both iron together, not copper to iron. Sorry for any confusion there. Check your wire with a magnet Joe and see the level of attraction to it. This should give you an idea of the iron content. I have the feeling we will all be winding more coils in the future, so I might as well get used to the idea.
So the switch will self start? OK, that is good. I know we have talked about this before, but do we want solid wire for the secondary? Should it be enamel coated as in the Tesla coils? Plastic insulated? I have read opposing views on this on various sites. I could not see exactly what NS called for in the patent for the secondary. Thanks.
Bill
@Bruce
There are two layers there the bolt is insulated first in that cloth then i did my mummy style wrapping around the bare copper romex wire. then i taped taht to the silver/steel wire(insulated still)and secured taht on the bolt on some insulation so nothing shorts. What i have noticed is ive had this wet 6 times and dry each and no stains/rust is left on white cotton cloth so im willing to say this electrode is being preserved pretty well.
The wierdist thing happened the first time i put a load to it a few days ago bubbles started comming around the coil in the water but it wasent hho or h just air.. I think it filled its own space with water somehow and pushed the air out remaining in the cotton or inbetween...
@Bill
O i see what you were saying now.. but no you want one cu end free and one fe end free and the the opposite pair is what you use for juice in the relay. I can hang the wire off a magnet if that helps its pretty strong attraction
I finished up 11 windings, and tested my cell in a bucket of tap water.
It hit 57ma at its highest, @ around .72 vdc, and around 1.1 vac. I was wondering if I should wrap more, but decided I should just try start wrapping the secondary. I left it submerged for around 2 minutes, but can't tell if it soaked all the way through. I'm just glad none of it shorted out. I'm anxious to see what it does in the soil, and if we can get a response in the secondary. I want to try 2 to 3k turns of wire, if I can fit it on there.
@Freezer
Rock out with your box out ! Cool brother close to 60 ma..... that might be enough to start the relay if you go that way but im gonna recommend the rotary gap until more becomes clear.
You will deff get ac readings on your seconday ;D I was getting couple milli volts and a couple micro amps while i touched wires 5 and 6 of the primary on and off on and off.. so your should give some noticeable results on the secondary as long as the speed of the primary make and break is fas enought.Higher speed in the primary relay/gap = higher volts/current ac in the secondary. Again cool at least we know that were gonna need a bit more wire, the thickest we can get and results should increase steadly for the primar's current output.we went from geting 5 or ten ma to 20 then to 60 at least we know that with enough wire i could have someting close to half an amp yea it woud be 4 times the size but were getting there folks slow but steady! Thanks everyone for making this a great project ;D
Joe
@ Joe
What I don't understand is how Bendini got 250ma @ .07vdc. I think he used magnet wire for his + side, and wound a good amount. I'm wondering why he got .07 volts though. I'm also wondering, which should we try for voltage or current for the primary, cause I could hook the layers in series but sacrifice the ma's.
@Freezer
i don't know if you missed it but i had a small writeup on how bedini mi interpreted the patent i would not go by any of his stuff he got it completely backwards and the dis info spread.
Yours is our best so far and i know our path is right i would not worry, my cell is about .8 to .9 v almost a volt and 20 ma if i had one twice the length with 6 or 7 times the layers im next to positive i would have a little more than half an amp .500 ma or so. same voltage.. reason im saying this is i tested my fist layer in water and got approx 8-11 ma then wound my second layer on the primary and got 20 ma so it was proportional in my view. your doing great id wrap your secondary wire as many turns as you can. im sure you'll be able to secure some good ac readings if you fire the gap fast enough.
Bedini never caught the two devices in the patent and there separate instructions for use. even smart men make mistakes :)
@ Freezer
Great results!
1.) What size is your center bolt and is it just zinc plated steel?
2.) What type and gauge steel wire are you using?
3.) What gauge copper are you using?
4.) Your results were with all of your ends wired in parallel?
5.) Have you tried to wire them in series and see the difference?
Thanks!!
@ All
I think the problem with my coil is my core. I am going to purchase two new cores this afternoon, and wrap only one layer and test, before adding more layers.
@ Joe
The Radio Shack relay that I purchased, only requires 18 ma's to operate but at 5 volts.
Cheers,
Bruce
Quote from: Bruce_TPU on February 13, 2008, 03:51:12 PM
Its a 1" x 12" bolt, but I'm not sure what its made of. Its seems like its zinc plated. I sanded it, and it came to a dull silver color. I'm using 14 gauge wires for the primary which are about 6.5" wide on the bolt. Not sure what the zinc coated wire is made of either. I just tried it in parallel, but will try later in series. I used marine epoxy to hold the ends on the bolt. You don't want it to stretch and short out later.
G'day all,
Why are you guys not using a ferrite antenna rod for your core? Mine is round, is 18 cm long and is 9mm in diameter. These rods are soft ferrite material (They will not become permanent magnets after use in an electromagnetic coil as hard ferrite does) and have virtually the same specs as soft iron. They are available in two lengths here. Should be available at Radio Shack or equivalent.
I have put a piece of shrinkwrap tubing over mine, shrunk it and wound my coil on top. Works a treat.
Hans von Lieven
@Hans
Come clean.. Where did you hear to use a ferrite core? Im sticking with the iron for now but would love to hear your results what have you got going there>? ;D
G'day Joe and all,
Ferrite stands to reason. I have been trying unsuccessfully to obtain soft iron of sufficient diameter for my coil. I do not want to use steel as steel becomes magnetised after a while and I need a new field like a hole in the head.
I know that some coils and some transformers use ferrite as cores (High voltage transformers in TV sets are a good example) So I decided to try it.
As to my results, you have to wait a little while as I am pursuing a different line of inquiry to you guys. I do not use galvanic current, my coil is plain iron wire and lacquered copper wire (0.5 mm diameter) wound bifilar. I have not added the secondary coil yet. Instead of using galvanic current I use a 1.5 V small battery to energise the coil.
Early days yet, so have patience, I will let you know if I strike something out of the ordinary. Time is a limiting factor at the moment unfortunately.
Hans von Lieven
G'day all,
@Hans. There is a big tool and metal suppliers somewhere near Blacktown, I can't remember their name at the moment. They can cut you any length of soft iron rod up to 5cm diameter. But I agree ferrite would be a better choice. I think if Stubblefield could have got hold of ferrite he would have used it. Perrigo used bundles of thin rods to make his cores, similar to laminates in a transformer. Sharper hysteresis too.
Ian
G'day Ian,
I had thought about using a bundle of fence wire for the core, that would have worked, but it is messy to do. That is why I settled for the ferrite. I agree with you that if ferrite had been available then, Stubblefield and Tesla would have made extensive use of it.
Hans
@ Freezer:
Fantastic! That's a new record for us here. 56mA! Now my coil looks like a little toy compared to yours.
Great job!
@ Hans:
Ferrite eh? Ferrite is nothing more than iron oxide and I don't understand why this should work. I had thought earlier about trying a carbon core (from my cell outside) but I have no idea why this would work either. I do agree that we have many things now that Tesla and NS would have loved to have had. I have machined a lot of ferrite in my day for wave guides for microwaves and other such devices. I was not aware of soft or hard ferrite. All of the materials we had required diamond tooling as did the rest of the ceramics we machined. I will have to check on this somewhere. Do you have any way to post pictures of your device? I can't wait to see the results. I am hoping to find that beer increases the output of my coil.
Bill
Newcastle gave me a new record bill ;)
G'day Bill,
The main difference between the ferrites colloquially known as soft and hard ferrites (this does not refer to the hardness of the material) is that the "soft" one magnetises and demagnetises quickly, which is why it is used in transformers, RF coils and so forth, while the "hard" ferrite, once magnetised, holds its magnetism, which is why it is used to manufacture ceramic magnets. Because both materials are a ceramic and very hard, rehaping them is very difficult, if not impossible. Diamond tools are needed.
I think the terms soft and hard come from a time when people talked about soft iron and hard iron (steel), which have the same respective magnetic properties.
Hans von Lieven
Hello all,
Well, I have wound a baby coil, one layer. It gave me .710 volts @ 1.25 ma's. I will wind another tomorrow. I want to test an idea outside with them.
Then I started on my second coil, taking apart my first one. This has a 5/8" core by 16" in length. Galvanized bolt. I wrapped it with damp cloth between layers, and only wrapped two layers before testing. I am using 14 awg galvanized wire with my copper. Galvanized works. and is rust proof. My other coil has already put rust stains all over it's wrapping. Galvanized will not rust. Hmm....How long will it put out power? Years? Not too shabby. ;)
Damp cloth reading:
Volts
.770
Amps
35.2 ma
Wet bath
Volts
.725
Amps
32 ma
The amperage increases when standing on end with wires ends to the bottom. increased by about 7 ma's. ;D (This is when it is out of the water!)
Tomorrow I will wrap two more layers and then test again. ;D
Slow but steady progress. I can see the instruction booklet now, "When planting earth batteries, mulch well." LOL
Cheers,
Bruce
Hey guys and gal,
I just wired my baby coil with my mega coil, in series, and got 1.56 volts! Tomorrow I will try two baby coils in the ground and see if they can be wired in series or parallel underground, without shorting each other out. I will wrap each completly in cotton. ;)
Cheers,
Bruce
@ Bruce:
35 mA.....nice going! I can't believe you took your other one apart already. That's one heck of an improvement though. I don't think we will have the problem with shorting in the ground in series because these coils are self-contained units not depending on another electrode some distance away. When I can get the time and materials, I will wind another larger one and keep my other two for series experiments. Great idea with the galvanized wire. Mine is also showing signs of rust. (Rust never sleeps) So, galvanized core and wire should give long life. Of course, if Hans's ferrite core works, that will never rust or break down. Great progress being made here. We will get there.
@ Hans:
Thanks for the explanation of the hard and soft ferrite. In our machining world we were just concerned with actual hardness for fabricating the parts, not the electrical properties. I learn something new here every day. Thanks.
Bill
@ All:
Below is copied and pasted from 2 responses to my earth battery video on youtube. I think we ought to try this as well sometime. It is similar to what Joe did a while back but, I didn't know the battery would not run down. This appears similar to the effects seen on the micro tpu topic. What do you all think? I invited him to join us in our efforts over here.
Hey bill if you hook any Battery to the earth batt. and hook a light not an LED. it will burn and not run the battery down as long as it is hooked to the earth battery.tesla new this I bet! I just had to tell you what I learned from you aaaand stumbling across this phenomenom ! Thanx Again! Go Earth Power! Take what you need and the earth will replace it.
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Hey Bill I put copper plates in the ground 20ft. 1/2in. copper wire 24ft.long run south then I plundged a 3ft long 4in aluminum pipe into the earth only2ft.deep. I then placed a 12volt batt.between the pipe and the end of the wire.between the +batt and the pipe A sm. elec. motor the same between the -batt. and the copper wire. both motors spin. I then hooked up three 12v. lights to the battery still 12.5 v. Its like pumpig out a boat with a big hole in it the battery is a cap. equal reaction US
Bill
This is fascinating stuff Bill
Well Done !
Let's see what we can do with this little puppy.
Hans von Lieven
Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 13, 2008, 11:39:02 PM
@ All:
Below is copied and pasted from 2 responses to my earth battery video on youtube. I think we ought to try this as well sometime. It is similar to what Joe did a while back but, I didn't know the battery would not run down. This appears similar to the effects seen on the micro tpu topic. What do you all think? I invited him to join us in our efforts over here.
Hey bill if you hook any Battery to the earth batt. and hook a light not an LED. it will burn and not run the battery down as long as it is hooked to the earth battery.tesla new this I bet! I just had to tell you what I learned from you aaaand stumbling across this phenomenom ! Thanx Again! Go Earth Power! Take what you need and the earth will replace it.
uncleshorty (1 hour ago) Show Hide Marked as spam
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Hey Bill I put copper plates in the ground 20ft. 1/2in. copper wire 24ft.long run south then I plundged a 3ft long 4in aluminum pipe into the earth only2ft.deep. I then placed a 12volt batt.between the pipe and the end of the wire.between the +batt and the pipe A sm. elec. motor the same between the -batt. and the copper wire. both motors spin. I then hooked up three 12v. lights to the battery still 12.5 v. Its like pumpig out a boat with a big hole in it the battery is a cap. equal reaction US
Bill
thanks for the info! :o
Morning all,
OK, that Post of Bill's is pause to stop and think for a moment. So it would seem that both of these guys took the original experiments to new heights, eh?
They placed a rechargeable battery in their circuit with regular lights, and the batteries remained charged. If true, then the original earth battery only provided a small amount of power by itself, but when connected with a rechargeable battery to a load, the circuit acts as an electron pump from earth to battery. Is that what it sounds like to the rest of y'all?? :o
I wonder if these will work out to be the same? Much easier than our old way. We must remember to try a rechargeable battery and regular lights in our circuit with these coils.
Cheers,
Bruce
EDIT:
Does my drawing below look correct as to what was described?
@ Bruce Hans or anyone else that can answer this one
Quick question - i turned my relay into a step up transformer/ boost ciruit and i dont know how i did it. Great right.. anyways i took a signal diode 1n914 lo loss connected to the lead at the bottom of the relay coil going to the arm that vibrates. The other side of the diode goes to the plus side of a 200v cap from a disposable camera. - on the cap to - battery. The effect becomes more prononunced when the spark becomes more visable at the contact point. it charges the cap to 60v in about 2 seconds i repeatedly arc'ed it with a skrew driver to see the time it would take to swing up again i was mildly amazed, It was next to instant.. make a long story short the skrew driver was arc welded to the cap by the end of the night and i tore the legs out so then i went and got a bank of 3 of those caps wired in parallel 200v 980 mfd total and boy that sounds like a freaking gun shot. figured id share :) i was operating my relay with half dead doubll a's just 2 so 3v or a lil less they were on there way out.
Joe
.
Here this is folks deff worth some side investigation .. one thought was once that cap fills enough to dump that into a pimary coil at a sync rate and see what kind of results were to be had on a secondary.. Two rehostats are needed to tune but if you got the relay firing fast enoguh to charge the cap in a second or less. im almost there limited by physical matierals, you could then fire the cap much quicker into a transformer and have it ready to go again. this is not directly for the earth battery just something interesting i found along my way ;D The cool part is this thing charges the caps for my coil gun in about a quarter of the time the camera flash circuit takes.. interesting
G'day Joe and all,
Can someone tell me what the diode is doing in this circuit?
Hans
@Hans
I think its filtering back emf from the spark and captuing it but im not sure., I'll try it without quick. Have you ever seen a step up circuit like this one ?
Joe
EDIT-Tried with out diode and no go.. didnt work meter swung other way
@ Bruce:
I think your diagram is an accurate description of what the respondent to my youtube video was saying. I also think that with our single cell/coil design we might be able to substitute them for the separate electrode approach. If I get the time this weekend, I can try both ways. My electrodes are still in the ground and I plan on burying my newest coil also. I guess what I am trying to say is that if our coils tap into the telluric currents, we can use them in place of the two electrodes in your drawing. I think this is worth exploring. The ramifications would be enormous. Anyone using solar cells could wire their storage batteries in conjunction with the earth cells and, at night, or on cloudy days, would still have power in the batteries. (If this turns out to be correct) This could change everything!
@ Hans:
What do you think about my above remarks? I realize this branch of research may be a little off topic but then again, maybe not. How is your coil coming along?
@ Joe:
I wish I knew enough to be able to make an intelligent comment on your last two posts. This sounds to me like yet another interesting and potentially useful phenomenon that has been discovered while on our path of learning with these experiments. Like I always have said, the more I learn, the more I realize that there is to learn.
Bill
Thats how i felt as a computer guy next to broadcast rf engineeres. No worries bill ;D
@ Bruce:
Here is a modified version of your drawing showing how I believe we can use the coil cells for this.
Bill
Quote from: Localjoe on February 14, 2008, 01:31:41 PM
@Hans
I think its filtering back emf from the spark and captuing it but im not sure., I'll try it without quick. Have you ever seen a step up circuit like this one ?
Joe
EDIT-Tried with out diode and no go.. didnt work meter swung other way
Interesting,
Thanks Joe
Hans
Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 14, 2008, 02:22:22 PM
@ Hans:
What do you think about my above remarks? I realize this branch of research may be a little off topic but then again, maybe not. How is your coil coming along?
Bill
G'day Bill,
I don't think you are off the topic at all. This area must definitely be investigated further.
Hans
BTW I am trying to get my hands on a camera so I can show you my coil.
Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 14, 2008, 02:41:31 PM
@ Bruce:
Here is a modified version of your drawing showing how I believe we can use the coil cells for this.
Bill
Hi Bill,
Yes, your drawing is exactly what I hope works also. This is something we must investigate right away.
Do you remember yours and my test, where we hooked a nine volt battery to the earth battery and the voltage and amperage jumped?
With no diodes, I see the current not only flowing to the load, but also flowing to the ground and then from ground back to the battery. Almost like a capacitor on an L/C coil.
If this turns out to be true, it would be incredible....!
Now we must verify. (So little time, so many experiments!) Remember to use a regular low voltage bulb and not an LED.
Tonight I will finish winding three more layers on my coil. I am hoping for 75 ma's. I do not know how many we need, but that should be a good start.
@ Joe
I wonder what would happen if you placed your little discovery, between your primary and secondary of your Earth battery. Then you would be sending High voltage pulsed into your secondary. It would be a good test, since the rest of us have low voltage, high current to pulse. We can see which is more effective, underground in garnering those Telluric Currents. What kind of relay is it? Did you get it from Radio Shack? If so, what is the number and type?
Cheers,
Bruce
EDIT:I am speculating now, but perhaps the way Stubblefields battery works is the same, as if we hooked up a battery as we plan on testing to see if it stays charged. Perhaps as the secondary is pulsing, it begins to act as an electron pump as well? We will see.
@ Bruce:
I agree 100% with what you said in your last post. I think the guy's (who replied on youtube) analogy might be brilliant: Like bailing out a boat with a hole in it, the more you bail out, the more water flows in. I have been thinking lately of experimenting with some solar cells along with our earth battery experiments. I have been reading up on the latest in the solar area and this little discovery, again if true, could put that technology out in front of many others as it fixes a main drawback of that technology; no power generated at night or on cloudy days. At one of the electronics supply/surplus sites Joe posted a while back, I found some amazing little cells that put out .9 vdc @ 2.0 amps! These only cost like $4.00 ea. I have seen solar panels (consisting of many cells) costing many, many dollars that don't put out that much. Anyway, like you said, so many experiments, so little time, and $$.
Bill
@hans
Anytime ;)
@Bruce
The relay is homade just like shown, i used 4 layers of the green "magnet" wire from Radio shack for the 4 inch bolt i wound it on, i think that was steel. The metal thing that resembles a spring board is a coping saw blade about an eight of an inch wide and probably 5 inches long
the contact above it looks like a nail but i dont have a nonmagnetic metal to use in skrew or nail form so i was just holding a peice of thin copper wire (stranded) gently on the saw blade and it starts vibrating rather quick never hits the electromagnet below it either just up and down in mid air. It only took like 20 mins to build .. umm i have power tools that helped me a bit tho :)
Joe
@ Bill
Please repost that link for that cell, or PM it to me. I would appreciate it very much.
@ Joe
Thanks! It sounds like a great little relay. I can't wait to see how it does hooked to your coil.
@ All
I just ran a great little experiment!
Setup:
Carbon tube is North - Positive
Galvanized Spike is South - Negative (both have been in my yard for awhile. )
Voltage reading from this "couple"
.824 volts
Amperage reading from this "couple".
.12 ma
My "baby" coil, (Completely wrapped in cotton, to insulate!!) Buried 6 inches North of the carbon tube.
Voltage reading of "baby" coil
.710 volts
Amps reading of "baby" coil
.6 ma
NEXT:
I wired the "baby" coil in SERIES with the carbon and galvanized couple.
Volts
1.4 volts ;D (Cotton is the perfect insulator for these things! We should be able to put as many in the ground as we want!!)
Amperage
2.2 ma's (WHERE DID THESE EXTRA MA'S COME FROM? ??? :D ;D ;D )
SPECULATION:
The small baby coil, acting like a battery hooked to the "couple" in series put power into the couple and MORE power came back!
Of course we need many, many more tests, but I can not tell you how encouraged I am!
Cheers,
Bruce
@ Bruce
Wow Bruce that was really interesting! wonder what might happen if you put a few wraps on the Carbon tube and the galvanzed one and hooked them all in series? I'll be glued to this thread from now on.
@ Bruce:
Great job! We are finding out more and more about these things and it is great!
http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/products.asp?dept=1174 (http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/products.asp?dept=1174)
Above is the link to the solar cells page on the site that Joe posted.
Yes, the cotton and the design of the NS cells will allow for series wiring. This is why I feel that we can do the battery experiments we have been discussing earlier. I think they have a great chance to work. (The single cell coil) So, you added more mA's than would be had from adding the two separate cells together? This is important. This is telling us something. Fantastic! I will try the same this weekend and report. I still believe we are into much more than we ever imagined here.
Bill
@ MrSpates:
I have been thinking about the very same thing. Why not wind my carbon electrode to see what happens? If I get the chance, I will look into this as well. Yes, please stay tuned here, some great things are about to be discovered.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 14, 2008, 09:17:58 PM
@ MrSpates:
I have been thinking about the very same thing. Why not wind my carbon electrode to see what happens? If I get the chance, I will look into this as well. Yes, please stay tuned here, some great things are about to be discovered.
Bill
Hi Bill,
I honestly don't think that winding the carbon will suit a purpose. The reason we need to wind over the iron (galvanized) is to enable it to be used as a pulsing transformer underground. I think that the real experiments should be along both of the following lines, IMHO.
A.) The continued work on our N.S. coils
B.) Verifying that putting power into our other North/ South Earth Battery electrodes, allows more power to be output.
This can be tested using batteries with a load, as those two posts made to your youtube video, or our coils, measuring the amperage of each and wiring our N.S. Coil in series with our E.B. Electrodes, as I did, and see if there is an "abnormal" increase in current.
Cheers,
Bruce
@ Bruce:
Agreed.
Bill
I agree with putting power into the earth to get more out, thats always been along my line of thinking, just like putting an antenna into the air to draw positive down to negative, but on the other hand if you could get enough power from the earth and channel it back into itself, you'd probably see some good results there. I'm fascinated with the fact you can bury copper plates 20 ft in the ground and keep a battery charged, I don't see how that could be done unless you have a well boring rig as the majority of backhoes won't even go that deep. As soon as I have time I plan to hook my 1.3v earth battery up to a microwave transformer which is 2 copper coils put together enclosed in a steel frame ( I have no idea what the copper is wrapped around) and plant it, hopefully I'll get something worth mentioning.
@ MrSpates:
My interpretation of the guy's comment was that he buried the copper plate, and used 24 feet of wire to the other al electrode. This tells me that he just buried the plate and went 20 feet to the south, otherwise, he would have needed much more than 24 feet of wire to connect. I am guessing that he did not bury the plate 20 feet deep. does this make sense?
Bill
@ Bill
It would just about have to, but then again I've seen plans for earth batteries that call for copper pipes to be buried 8-10 ft for best results. Now this is just off the top of my head, but do any of you live in an area where there are caves? (I don't) bury some copper in a cave, hook up a wire and run it out. You'd be down there where stronger currents run.
Evening All,
I don't think we will have to go very deep to tap the telluric current.
I have finished winding my coil. It has five layers as did Stubblefields. I will stop there. I simply sprayed it down with water and did my power test.
Volts -
.709
Amp -
81.8 ma's ;D
Tomorrow, I will connect it in series with the N.S. Electrodes and take readings before and then after, and see. I will not be burying it, for tomorrow's experiment, but will use it like a battery. I don't think these coils will do anything when buried, UNTIL they have their secondaries and the make and break, to pulse it.
Slow steady progress. My coil is rust stained from my previous coil, and is not pretty, but it should work.
Cheers,
Bruce
@ Bruce:
Gee, 81.8 mA? Is that all? That's only like FOUR times the amount my coil puts out!!!!!! Ha ha. Nice work. That is almost 1/10 of an amp. We are playing in a much different ballpark now and that is the record. Fantastic. Interesting that the volts do not seem to increase with the additional windings and length though. This is the same range Joe and I have.
Hypothesis: If one built a coil 4 feet long with 20 layers, we might have several amps of power. To me, power is everything here. I still think we will see increases when buried, but, you might be right about the secondary too. Time, and experiments, will tell. Incredible Bruce, great job!
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 15, 2008, 12:46:12 AM
@ Bruce:
Gee, 81.8 mA? Is that all? That's only like FOUR times the amount my coil puts out!!!!!! Ha ha. Nice work. That is almost 1/10 of an amp. We are playing in a much different ballpark now and that is the record. Fantastic. Interesting that the volts do not seem to increase with the additional windings and length though. This is the same range Joe and I have.
Hypothesis: If one built a coil 4 feet long with 20 layers, we might have several amps of power. To me, power is everything here. I still think we will see increases when buried, but, you might be right about the secondary too. Time, and experiments, will tell. Incredible Bruce, great job!
Bill
Hi Bill,
You are right in noticing no increase in voltage. I ended up wiring mine completely in series. And almost identical voltage as Freezer's coil, and his was wired in parallel.
This tells me that that it makes zero difference, wiring layers in series or parallel. I urge series, simply for ease of winding.
Right now my coil is simply a galvanic battery (though pretty cool.) What I need now, is to figure out what I want to wrap the secondary with, and work on connecting my relay and testing it. I think the secondary will pump the telluric currents.
I am also ordering, in the morning an analog meter for volts and one for ma's.
@ Joe
Where do you reckon the "output" of our coils will be, once they are finished? The output to load, that is? Looked at the patent, and I have got it.
Night all,
Bruce
Nice job Bruce! It seems like vertical is the way to go. They should get even more power in the ground, so I hope it goes well. My water battery also acted like as you say, it wouldn't really matter whether in series or parallel.
Morning all,
Well, I tried my large coil hooked in series with my N.S. Electrodes and all readings were normal. In other words it behaved just as you would expect.
In series, 1.45 volts @ .12 ma's
In parallel .823 volts @ 60.8 ma's (coil had dried out some, over night, so lower ma's.)
Conclusion:
This evening, or tomorrow, I will repeat my experiment with baby coil. If same results as yesterday afternoon, I will conclude that there needs to be a much higher ratio of volts to milliamps to see the effect. If that is the case, I will hook some 9volts in series with my large coil, with the N.S. electrodes and see if there is a bump in amperage.
Also, tonight I will begin work on the secondary. I have changed plans on that. In the patent, I count seven layers of wire. I will start with magnet wire and end with Litz wire.
Cheers all,
Bruce
Quote from: Bruce_TPU on February 14, 2008, 07:31:24 PM
@ Bill
Please repost that link for that cell, or PM it to me. I would appreciate it very much.
@ Joe
Thanks! It sounds like a great little relay. I can't wait to see how it does hooked to your coil.
Ceers,
Bruce
@Bruce
Something you should think about, at frist i was with you on puttng a little extra juice in the primary but i really dont think its a good idea, when i did it i got weird bubbles ..... no bubbles when just the wires 5 and 6 to load so id be willing to say that by putting power into this with a relay would not be a good idea yet the graphic i drew a page or so back shows the earth battery with a built in relay powered off of its own wires so that may be worth a shot since it is passive and the rotary gap would be passive as well but the relay i was testing here for the step up circuit is acitve and probably should not be used.. Please dont mind me using audio terms active and passive as i didnt know how elese to describe what i was saying ;D
Joe
Hi all,
Well I had an hour to spare this afternoon and my curiosity got the better of me, so I buried one of my microwave transformers about 4 inches in the ground and covered it up with all connecting wires sticking out of the soil, and hooked it to my copper pipe-zinc rod earth battery. I was a bit disappointed with the results:
.70 volts DC and .12 milliamps
I had quiet a start at first when my multimeter was set on microamps instead of milliamps (200u) as the meter jumped to 124 then continued to slowly fall over the next 20 min to 90.1 microamps. I had to quit as it was growing too dark to work with it. I left the transformer in the ground just to see if it might charge. I plan to work with it as time allows, plans include building a coil and hooking it up to that as well as to build an 8ga. antenna and setting it on top of my 7ft patio fence. I really have no idea what I'm doing, just trying to see what I can get from the different setups. Its an interesting hobby even if I never accomplish anything.
Quote from: MrSpates on February 15, 2008, 09:19:59 PM
Hi all,
Well I had an hour to spare this afternoon and my curiosity got the better of me, so I buried one of my microwave transformers about 4 inches in the ground and covered it up with all connecting wires sticking out of the soil, and hooked it to my copper pipe-zinc rod earth battery. I was a bit disappointed with the results:
.70 volts DC and .12 milliamps
I had quiet a start at first when my multimeter was set on microamps instead of milliamps (200u) as the meter jumped to 124 then continued to slowly fall over the next 20 min to 90.1 microamps. I had to quit as it was growing too dark to work with it. I left the transformer in the ground just to see if it might charge. I plan to work with it as time allows, plans include building a coil and hooking it up to that as well as to build an 8ga. antenna and setting it on top of my 7ft patio fence. I really have no idea what I'm doing, just trying to see what I can get from the different setups. Its an interesting hobby even if I never accomplish anything.
@ Mr.Spates
Try pulsing a transformer, while it is underground, and see if the output is more than the input. That might prove to be an interesting experiment.
Just burying an un-energized transformer won't do much of anything.
Cheers,
Bruce
@ Bruce
What do you mean by pulsing it? using a wrapped coil? It was charged with .70 vdc little as that is.
@Bruce
Any tests today on your coil ? Need to find a good separator for the secondary from the primary that is removable. Should probably do like the patent says but hollow peice of wood that wide is a pain in the ass im going to have to bribe the stump guy..
joe
Quote from: Localjoe on February 16, 2008, 12:18:34 AM
@Bruce
Any tests today on your coil ? Need to find a good separator for the secondary from the primary that is removable. Should probably do like the patent says but hollow peice of wood that wide is a pain in the ass im going to have to bribe the stump guy..
joe
Hi Joe,
Just the test this morning that I posted. I hope to run some Saturday. It is raining, but that is good, eh? LOL As long as there is no lightning tomorrow, I will proceed.
I simply wrapped a couple more layers of cloth over my finished primary, (Bigger sponge to keep the whole thing wet.) Then wrapped two secondary's. One of magnet wire, 20 awg and one of Litz wire, 675 strands of individually insulated wire.
I used alligator clips as a hand relay make and break to pulse the coil. I saw between 12 mv and .9 mv AC at each touch. I don't know why, but numbers greatly varied at each touch. The average seemed between 3 and 4 mv's. Not a lot of juice to pulse the ground, but hey, maybe it grows and then you are pulsing with more and more. Kind of like a "wind up effect", to get the ball rolling. Was there ever any report of that, anyone??
Cheers,
Bruce
@Bruce
Cool
I think before going in the ground, you should try a high speed make and break im next to positive you ac readings will increase proportionally with speed ;) ;D
Joe
@ Joe:
Just so you understand....based on that guy's response to me on youtube, we were talking of not exactly putting juice into the coils but, and it may only work with the separate electrodes, by having a regular rechargeable battery in the circuit he claimed that this battery charged more than it was drained by the load. (lights) The idea (theory) is that whatever the load takes from the rechargeable battery, the earth (from the electrodes) puts back in, and then some. I think this is what we are talking about investigating. I didn't know if you were clear on that. I am still hunting around here for a rechargeable battery large enough to light up a small incandescent type bulb so I can try it with both the electrode style, and coil style earth battery in this arrangement. It would be fantastic if it works.
PS I just had a thought about your other post Joe. Do we need a high dielectric material between the primary and the secondary? I was just going to use cotton but, now that I think about what you said with the wood, if the voltage gets high enough, it could easily pass back to the primary through the cotton could it not? Maybe we need like heat shrink tubing or some other stronger insulator here? If somehow we get into the 10,000 volts or so range, that spark could jump a long way and the primary is just sitting there very close-by. What do you think?
@ Bruce:
Nice secondary. Did you wind two separate/different wire types so you can see which performs better? I think most of the Tesla type coils use enamel coated wire for secondaries. It looks good. I like Joe's idea that the faster you pulse it, the higher the voltage will be. Also, if we can hit the "resonance" freq. somehow (it will be different I am sure for all of us due to the variance in materials used and windings and size) I bet we would see a huge jump in the output. I can't wait to get to that step.
Bill
This link shows where someone built a coil that recharges its own battery, Thought it might be of interest to some of you.
http://www.theverylastpageoftheinternet.com/ElectromagneticDev/davidmason/timepump.htm
@mrspates
Thanks but the jnl labs page goes a little more in depth.
I made one of those joule thiefs, and it works pretty good. So I guess these leds run off ac just as well. I used a 1 watt luxeon and it seems like full brightness off a 1 D cell so ill test it with the earth batteries and see.
D cell battery -
Without thief
1.34vdc
2.4vac
149mA
With Thief
1.11vdc
43-35vac
131mA
Quote from: Localjoe on February 16, 2008, 12:41:54 AM
@Bruce
Cool
I think before going in the ground, you should try a high speed make and break im next to positive you ac readings will increase proportionally with speed ;) ;D
Joe
@Joe
I sure hope that you are right about that. And I will for sure test it, as soon as I figure this relay out. I also have analog meters coming for DC ma's and for DC volts. I still need to order an AC analog. I do not trust these digitals all that much.
Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 16, 2008, 03:11:46 PM
@ Joe:
Just so you understand....based on that guy's response to me on youtube, we were talking of not exactly putting juice into the coils but, and it may only work with the separate electrodes, by having a regular rechargeable battery in the circuit he claimed that this battery charged more than it was drained by the load. (lights) The idea (theory) is that whatever the load takes from the rechargeable battery, the earth (from the electrodes) puts back in, and then some. I think this is what we are talking about investigating. I didn't know if you were clear on that. I am still hunting around here for a rechargeable battery large enough to light up a small incandescent type bulb so I can try it with both the electrode style, and coil style earth battery in this arrangement. It would be fantastic if it works.
PS I just had a thought about your other post Joe. Do we need a high dielectric material between the primary and the secondary? I was just going to use cotton but, now that I think about what you said with the wood, if the voltage gets high enough, it could easily pass back to the primary through the cotton could it not? Maybe we need like heat shrink tubing or some other stronger insulator here? If somehow we get into the 10,000 volts or so range, that spark could jump a long way and the primary is just sitting there very close-by. What do you think?
@ Bruce:
Nice secondary. Did you wind two separate/different wire types so you can see which performs better? I think most of the Tesla type coils use enamel coated wire for secondaries. It looks good. I like Joe's idea that the faster you pulse it, the higher the voltage will be. Also, if we can hit the "resonance" freq. somehow (it will be different I am sure for all of us due to the variance in materials used and windings and size) I bet we would see a huge jump in the output. I can't wait to get to that step.
Bill
@ Bill
Yes, I used to different types of wire to see any difference. The magnetic wire is the winner (for this application. ;) )
I hope that Joe's theory hold true, as well. Resonance can be worked on, once we have a proof of concept of this whole thing.
It has rained and thundered here all day. Not much experimenting outdoors. That battery test with load, connected to the earth battery electrodes is extremely important. That and getting a relay to work on my coil are this weeks objectives.
P.S. Winding the secondary reduces your ma's seen on your primary.
Cheers,
Bruce
@Bruce
Sweet things are coming together nice. Ive seen multiple references to ns earth battery being used to run High Frequency ac devices eg the heater and the one im most "secretly" interested in .. the pith ball 3d apparatus depicting movement in a given area. This guy had a something resembling a wooden table with pith balls hanging inclemently in rows and it some how represented the topo of the land he was on and movement within its confines.. those crazy turn of the century inventors.. Those wild sparks and streamers people claimed were reminiscent of the batteries sure sound like some HF sparks one may see shooting off a tesla coil ;D Can i help with the relay in any way..?
@Freezer
what were those readings from?
Joe
Quote from: Localjoe on February 16, 2008, 08:38:10 PM
@Freezer
what were those readings from?
Joe
I used a 1.5v d-cell. Its a nice simple circuit for small power. I want to mess with it more to see if I can get more out of it.
I'm also interested what your readings from your joule thief on a 1.5v cell?
@ All:
I am going out to attempt the electron pump experiment today. I could only find a regular 9v battery to use, it is not rechargeable and this might not work. All of the other batteries I have that are rechargeable are not powerful enough to light my bulb. I am using a tail light bulb from a car. (12 volt) I will see what happens.
Bill
@Freezer
The input from my original earth battery was about .5v under load just enough to turn on the transistor and the ma dropped to 4ma but that was directly off one copper to pos and one iron wire to neg. No battery. a half dead double a batt lit about 4 led's for me for a few days untill they got dim. I never saw a voltage change i think it just turns it off and on at a high freq faster than we can see so it looks like its always on.. It was cool for the first part but i think the real earth battery circuit controller whether relay or ss or rotary gap, still needs to be passive and not put power into the leads 5 and six only allow them to make and break. Great work man! Hopefully i'll be cutting my large circular wood ends later today and trying to secure a long enough length of romex to strip for my copper. Now i just need that sweet insulation from the diy audio store in Australia there.
Take care
Joe
i made a little earth battery today and my multimeter says .700 dc volts,
but is it actually dc power?
also if i had 5 or so in series would i be able to run a tiny motor?
@Crash
Cool ! ;D if you could take a pic or explain better how you constructed it id be glad to help you as much as i can.
Joe
@ Bill
Radio Shack has mini bulbs, rated at under 9 volts. I bought some today, as well as the sockets. I also think that we have to use rechargeable batteries. But, every experiment is a good one.
I am set up for the same experiment, but I am having to recharge my rechargeable 9 v's. They were all dead from trying to recharge them using my micro tpu oscillator.
So, Tomorrow evening I will test it out.
@ Crash.
They can be hooked in series only if insulated in cotton, from the dirt. Series will give you more voltage, but still not much amperage.
Cheers,
Bruce
i attached the pic....
it's basically a cup of dirt with a couple of screws in it...it gets around .7 volts or so my multimeter says...
and it's connected to the simple little motor...
i can get a reading at the motor end...
my bet it's just not enough juice to get the motor running....
Quote from: crash_uni8 on February 17, 2008, 03:46:03 PM
You want to use two different types of metal for your electrodes to get current. The common metals would be zinc and copper, but there are other metals which do pretty well. To gain more voltage you need to separate the individual cells and hook them in series. If you place it in the ground you will have the problem of the cells shorting out. If you insulate each cell you will gain a little voltage although not very much and the more moister or rain water in the ground, the more they will short out. If you use cups of dirt, that will increase the voltage properly so long as it is completely isolated. I still have cells outside in the dirt which when relatively dry, they put out 3.3 volts, and if raining it falls way down, not even enough to power the led. If turning that motor is the goal, figure out what minimum voltage it takes to turn it and also the milliamps, then try and achieve that amount of wattage with the cell.
well it turns pretty well with a AA battery...so maybe 1 volt is the minimal amount....
i still have no idea how many mini amps i need....
[edit] is their someway to increase the amps?
Evening all,
I have every thing tested and prepped for tomorrows evening experiment. I will be using a 6.3 volt 150 ma bulb, incandescent, in a mini holder. For the picture below I am using a regular 9 volt battery. Tomorrow's experiment will use a rechargeable 9 volt that is even now, being recharged.
I have spaced my electrodes apart by 20 feet. My Carbon rod is to the North, and galvanized spike is to the South. A nice 1.23 volt reading between the two, at .12 ma's. I have 8 awg wire going 19 feet from the positive back towards the spike.
The bulb will be placed in the jar, as seen. The battery placed in a second jar, to protect them from the elements. The jar will be slightly lifted up to allow air flow and cooling.
We will see how long it will burn... ;)
Cheers,
Bruce
@ Bruce:
My experiment today did not work out. But, I think I know why. First, I am sure now that I need to use a rechargeable bat. and will obtain one as soon as I am able to do so. But, and think about this, I believe we are going to need a diode in the circuit. My old electrodes were putting out:
1.7 vdc
6mA
The 9 volt is old and was showing 8.2 vdc. I think what happened was the 8.2 volts lit up the bulb (12 vdc taillight bulb) for a while but why wouldn't the electrons from the 8.2 volts flow into the 1.7 volt earth battery? I think they would, and did. What I am saying is that we need a one-way valve (diode) in the circuit so this can't happen. It seems to make sense to me that the 8.2 volts is going to flow to the 1.7 volt electrodes and not the other way around. Does this make sense electronically? I feel like the higher volts/current will flow toward the lesser volt/current.
I will repeat the experiment with a rechargeable bat. in the future but we need a diode, maybe not in the form of an led, but something to stop the flow in the "wrong" direction.
The tail light bulb was illuminated for about ten minutes. 9 volt bat. is "dead" now.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 17, 2008, 07:06:39 PM
@ Bruce:
My experiment today did not work out. But, I think I know why. First, I am sure now that I need to use a rechargeable bat. and will obtain one as soon as I am able to do so. But, and think about this, I believe we are going to need a diode in the circuit. My old electrodes were putting out:
1.7 vdc
6mA
The 9 volt is old and was showing 8.2 vdc. I think what happened was the 8.2 volts lit up the bulb (12 vdc taillight bulb) for a while but why wouldn't the electrons from the 8.2 volts flow into the 1.7 volt earth battery? I think they would, and did. What I am saying is that we need a one-way valve (diode) in the circuit so this can't happen. It seems to make sense to me that the 8.2 volts is going to flow to the 1.7 volt electrodes and not the other way around. Does this make sense electronically? I feel like the higher volts/current will flow toward the lesser volt/current.
I will repeat the experiment with a rechargeable bat. in the future but we need a diode, maybe not in the form of an led, but something to stop the flow in the "wrong" direction.
The tail light bulb was illuminated for about ten minutes. 9 volt bat. is "dead" now.
Bill
@ Bill
That is a great first experiment. I will first try mine without a diode and can add one on the next go around. I have a theory, but it is useless to say, I will know tomorrow.
At your youtube video, click the poster's name, who posted that awesome reply. Then hit message. It will send him a PM to his youtube account. ;D We need more info!
Good job!
Bruce
well i have 5 "cells" in series and am getting 4 volts...but their isn't enough amps still... :-\
if i put the cells in parallel would i get more amps?
@ Bruce:
Thanks for the youtube messaging info. I copied and pasted your list of questions to "Uncleshorty" and hope to get a reply. I again invited him to join us here. I checked out some of his saved videos and he appears to have many of the same ones I do. I think he would like it here. I will let you know if/when I get a reply.
@crash_uni8:
Yes, I believe that if you wire them in parallel you will increase the mA. (milliamps) 4 volts is a good number for your series arrangement. If you search back to about the first 5 pages of this topic, you will see where I posted a table on the galvanic materials and their numbers. Carbon/graphite and magnesium are about the farthest apart on that table so you will get the most volts/mA. You will also be able to see some other more easily obtained materials and figure out which are best for you to use. If you can't find it, let me know and I will search for it and post again.
Bill
@Crash
All the folks have given some good advice but if your looking for real power i suggest endeavoring to wind a Stubblefield coil as we are. ;D
Joe
@Bruce
How'd the bulb exp go?
Joe
Quote from: Localjoe on February 18, 2008, 06:50:07 PM
@Bruce
How'd the bulb exp go?
Joe
I'm sorry all. I have been in bed all day sick with fever. I missed work also. Hopefully I will feel better tomorrow. :-\
Cheers,
Bruce
so this may be known but i felt i would share.
a while back a zen teacher once told me, the trueth rings true. (if its true you will know its true) i have been following a different experiment that i know a little better, pulse motors. on this forum one man said that the common teaching is that a electron a peice of matter flows through other matter to make the electric current, this to me sounds wierd. the person went on to say that one science talks about this energy, not matter that is like water, surrounding the electrons as they spin around a nucleous, essentially like water in the sea and how it is inside the porous stones on the bottom of the ocean. the electric current is a de-stabilization of the atoms, causing them to expand and contract and during the contraction the next one expands. this goes on down the wire until all energy is spent. apparently this energy preferrs direct contact with another atom of a certain type which if we look at electrical conductors is soft metals :) i hope this is understood.
sorry i havent been around much, i have been following a desire of mine to have an electric car. we know how hard it is to get one to travel a decent distance so i have been working on a electric motor of super effeciency.
something to try, there has been talk of different coils having different properties. a normal coil is wound up a metal shaft and then back down and back up,. a better coil is would only up and to bring the copper back down they take the wire strait down the side and wind the next coil over it all the way up. the best coil does the same as the second only you decrease the return distance but continue winding up and eventually when your done it makes a cone shape. aim the large end of the cone at a magnet or in the earth battery sense aim it at the north pole i believe and you will get best reception of the current.
cheers.
@ ArticKnight:
Interesting post. I have read similar things as well. I wound my NS coil in a clockwise manner and, I have also read that it makes a difference on clockwise or counterclockwise windings. So, winding from top to bottom, and then, running the wires back to the top and continue? There are so many variables here but I think we need to try as many different ways as we can. See what works best.
Electric car? I have some ideas on a design I would love to work on one day. PM me and maybe we can talk in another topic and swap ideas. I know I can build one that would beat anything these "new" designs from GM are supposed to do in about three years. I also like the idea of super caps instead of exotic batteries that have to be replaced every few years at a large expense. I have an old van that needs transmission work to the tune of more than the it would sell for. I have been holding on to it in hopes that someday I can pull the engine, transmission, and everything else not required and put in a 50 hp electric motor. A few batteries in the back and a gas powered generator and, poof, a hybrid that would have over 400 mile range by my calculations. This would not even take into account solar cells on the roof or any other ideas.
@ Bruce:
I hope you get to feeling better. Being sick sucks.
Bill
@ all
Thank you for the best wishes and pm's. Very kind. :)
I ran a base test this morning (I'm still under the weather, but feeling better.) Indoors, just rechargeable battery and lamp, run time was just under 1 hour.
I hope to hook it up outside this afternoon and do the test.
Cheers,
Bruce
EDIT:
Well I ran the test outside and it lasted 1 hour and 9 minutes. Honestly, not much difference, considering the bulb looked dimmer to start with then the inside test.
@ Bill,
Have we heard from our youtube buddy yet?
@ Bruce:
No, no responses from the pm's I sent him on youtube. I also invited him here so I hope we hear something from him or see him here soon.
Bill
@ All
found a site today www.wickstore.com
they have wet bulb wick by the roll. This is the stuff that you slip over the instrument that does the wet bulb temperature test. The roll works out to about 4 cents a foot for braided cotton covering for the iron wire of our coils. Can't wait till payday.
Sid
edit
Should have said copper wire.
Great find Sid, thanks for posting the link.
Bill
Quote from: sid10 on February 20, 2008, 10:21:55 PM
The roll works out to about 4 cents a foot for braided cotton covering for the iron wire of our coils. Can't wait till payday.
Sid
edit
Should have said copper wire.
@All
Actually I used similar insulation for BOTH wires. Copper and iron. This way I didn't need to insulate between layers. Just wind the both wires until the end. My coil used 5 twisted wires .023" dia. insulated with nylon braided tube 1/8 in diameter. 50' each wound on 3/4" iron core.
I never finished coil with 2 cotton strings wound between wires. To many shorts to fight with. Decided to buy on ebay nylon braided tube to insulate wires instead.
George
Nice georgemay, did you test the power output in water? Looks real good. I just finished winding my secondary, and need to figure out the switching. I used about 2.5 pounds of 24g magnet wire, but don't know how many turns that is. I had to use a drill, as I don't have any access to machinery to do that. I'm wondering if we need to insulate or wrap a material around the final coil body. On another note, I was getting weird reading with the continuity setting, and had to unwrap a layer, but it turned out it wasn't really shorting.
I read another story on Stubblefield, and it said that he used a form a dowsing like others have said, and if you just put it in the ground anywhere you will get regular current such as the 1 volt at 1mA. It said that Stubblefield would spend atleast two weeks looking for this "hotspot" to bury his battery. I'm thinking we need some type of meter or use dowsing to find these areas, or we aren't gonna produce the current Stubblefield had.
@ Georgemay:
Nice looking coil!!! As Freezer asked, have you tested it wet yet? I just hope the nylon works like the cotton does. As long as it passes the wetness it should put out more than we have seen thus far. Good luck and let us know.
@Freezer:
Yes, I read the same piece on NS. I do not buy that, however. I believe it was written by people that did not understand what he was actually doing. But, until we get these in the ground and do some testing, we won't know. Bad ice storm here today. Over 75 car wrecks in the morning. We usually don't have any. What unusual readings were you getting? (continuity) I had two shorts to take care of that did not show up until wet. I was able to track them down and fix them but the only unusual thing I observed was the shorts were not always constant. It seemed like they would come and go. Once fixed, no problems now. I am interested to hear about what you observed.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 21, 2008, 11:31:57 PM
Yes, I read the same piece on NS. I do not buy that, however. I believe it was written by people that did not understand what he was actually doing. But, until we get these in the ground and do some testing, we won't know. Bad ice storm here today. Over 75 car wrecks in the morning. We usually don't have any. What unusual readings were you getting? (continuity) I had two shorts to take care of that did not show up until wet. I was able to track them down and fix them but the only unusual thing I observed was the shorts were not always constant. It seemed like they would come and go. Once fixed, no problems now. I am interested to hear about what you observed.
Bill
I think there is some truth to this, and it may be found by talking to people who specialize in grounding systems. They talk about the hotspots and how its not the same everywhere. If thats the case we probably need to survey a wide area to find what were looking for.
As for the continuity, I think perhaps the wires were too close but not actually in contact, and the resistance was low enough to get a response from the meter. It wouldn't beep, but give me a value. Maybe it had to do with the magnetic field. I think the cell will always be in the on position because of moister in the air even if you have never wet it.
I was messing around with a magnet to get some current in the cell. Its interesting I can snap the magnet to the north polarity end of the cell and induce current in the secondary through the joule thief and it lights up as it comes in contact, with no light as I take it off. I snap the other pole of the magnet to the end of the cell and no light, but when taken off it lights. I was wondering how we want to orient this cell with respect to the polarities and earths surface. Also the directions of the windings have to be a factor ccw/cw no?
@ Georgemay
Did you say e-bay?
If so how much on a roll and how much did it cost? If you don't mind that I ask. The only kind that I've been able to find that was priced right was nylon braid around a nylon core. Guess that the core could be removed, but that seems like a real pain
Sid
Quote from: sid10 on February 22, 2008, 09:21:41 AM
@ Georgemay
Did you say e-bay?
If so how much on a roll and how much did it cost? If you don't mind that I ask. The only kind that I've been able to find that was priced right was nylon braid around a nylon core. Guess that the core could be removed, but that seems like a real pain
Sid
Sid,
Yes, e-bay. at 12c per foot.
I think that wick you found is a better solution. Cotton will retain moisture while nylon actually allow water to go trough the whole coil in an instant but also doesn't keep it there. Water flows out quite quickly. In the ground perhaps it may be good it may collect water and keep it there. we will see when I'll bury it.
I did water test on the coil but I am not happy. It generates just .5V and few mw. I used iron wire with black oxide coating and in all excitement of wrapping it with new nylon braided insulation I
totally forgot to sand it off. Now I need to unwind it and redo iron wire.
Here there is a link to e-bay store where I got it:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1-8-BRAIDED-EXPANDABLE-SLEEVING-PET-loom-RED-per-ft_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742Q2em153Q2el1262QQcategoryZ38636QQihZ023QQitemZ360010138344QQtcZphoto
George
DOES ANYONE KNOW WHERE 3 PAGES OF THIS THREAD WENT? I cant be that nuts we were at page 100 or 101 a day ago or so
Quote from: georgemay on February 22, 2008, 05:04:55 PM
Sorry to hear that man.. I wonder if there is a way to dissolve the black oxide without ruining the rest of the cell. Unwrapping is a real pain..I guess its not too bad if you can use that machine you have.
@ Joe
I don't think this thread broke a 100 posts yet, but were getting there. I'm still trying to figure out how the make and break occurs, and or how Stubblefield did it. I guess he might have made a homemade type of circuit making it out of common materials like that Thrapp guy said. I guess the goal its to make it switch 1,000's of times per second or as fast as possible. I guess I will just have to experiment and see if anything works, but seems like a needle in a haystack.
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/2491/cellstub6ki1.jpg
@ Joe:
I believe you are right. 3 or so pages gone, but, see if you agree. I think the pages are longer now, for some reason. I noticed this the other day, they just keep going on and on before jumping to another page so my guess is that Stefan changed something that made the pages a little longer, but less pages total. You could pm him and ask.
Just look at the previous page...I don't recall them being that long before. Just my thoughts.
@ George:
Man, that is terrible. All of that work. I went through something sort of similar with my first coil but, thankfully, much smaller than yours with only 1 layer at that time. I feel your pain. I wonder if you could chemically etch it off while still wound? Soak it in a bucket of some solvent? Best of luck George. I am still looking forward to seeing the results of that monster coil. It will be worth it for you I believe.
Bill
The site was down for maintainence this morning when i tried to log on.
Sid
edit
I don't think any of the posts are missing.
Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 22, 2008, 09:15:22 PM
@ George:
Man, that is terrible. All of that work. I went through something sort of similar with my first coil but, thankfully, much smaller than yours with only 1 layer at that time. I feel your pain. I wonder if you could chemically etch it off while still wound? Soak it in a bucket of some solvent? Best of luck George. I am still looking forward to seeing the results of that monster coil. It will be worth it for you I believe.
Bill, Freezer,
It is not that bad at all. Winding 6 layers takes about 20 min. Insulating both wires really helps here. ;D Worst part is feeding 50 feet of wire into the braid which takes an hour and a half.
If I find some time this weekend I'll will redo it.
George
@Georgemay
Nice coil !!! But i do think you may encounter problems with the plastic insulation . It may restrict the water from doing its thing. Ive noticed that makes a huge diff.. And as far as putting thread between it is a pain in the arse and i don't recommend it. I do recommend the cotton/cloth sheath or tubing from the diy audio store or that other place sid posted. The effect is more pronounced when the iron/steel is exposed . It may be insulated but i wouldn't do plastics or acrylics. Hope this helps a bit. Thanks for your hard work again.
joe
Just messing around with a reed and trying to pulse it with a spinning coil. My cell is almost completely dry so its not putting out barely any measurable power. Just having some fun. :P
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg206.imageshack.us%2Fimg206%2F9459%2Fscl3sp1.jpg&hash=e5504445357688d12bfa778fba15281b5622d9d2)
G'day all,
@Freezer: That's a pretty smick piece of engineering you've got there, good work!
@Georgemay: I not sure if this will work , It is just a thought. How about putting your coil in an electrolyte and just using the iron coil ( copper not connected to anything) as one electrode and a separate piece of ferrous metal as another and try and electroplate the oxide layer away from your coil.
It may be a way of cleaning up the coil without disturbing the whole assembly.
Anyway as I said it was just a thought. Good luck with it dude.
Ian
Quote from: ian middleton on February 23, 2008, 07:29:01 PM
Ian,
The coil is in pieces. I am cleaning the wire now. ;D
LocalJoe.
The 'plastic insulation' I have is a see through mesh. Actually you can see the wire. Water runs through the coil like there is nothing there. It may not retain water like cotton insulation does. Anyway the wick is on the order.
George
@Georgemay
Sorry i didnt realize that about the mesh but ... The second reason im sticking with the cloth is just what you have mentioned. The cloth insulation will act as a siv in moist ground and retain a certian level of moisture. just enough to energize the coil. This guy was clever for his day. :)
Joe
Just a thought,Maybe this post really belongs on the first ten pages of this forum but here goes.Did anybody here every think of using panes of glass(small ones) to electrically isolate the cells from each other?You know,copper/zinc/glass/cupper/zinc/glass/copper/zinc in a straight line and try to add up the voltages?Make sure the electrodes are not deeper or larger than the small panes of glass.I think an idea size of glass would be 6"x10" like from a picture frame(s).triffid
@ Joe:
I found this video on youtube for a simple/kinda crude make/break device. I think we can do better and it can be much smaller but, I thought you might like to see it.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Lw7V_harFQU&feature=related (http://youtube.com/watch?v=Lw7V_harFQU&feature=related)
Bill
G'day all,
I am posting this one here as well, as I think it has relevance here. Remember how I have been talking earlier about the use of the neutral mid-point between magnetic poles that has come up over and over again in researching this topic in depth. Here is another example of this, this time not a forgotten patent lurking in the archives but a real device that has been manufactured by the millions and to some extend still is.
I hope this post will not annoy anyone but I do think it is relevant here:
Hans von Lieven
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...G?day all.
Today I want to put a subject into the arena that to my knowledge has never been discussed here, though it should be. The device I am talking about is from the early days of radio and may well have exhibited overunity.
There is little detailed information of it on the net (one wonders why), so at the risk of boring some of you that are familiar with the history and technology I will start at the beginning.
I will leave aside the very early forms of wireless transmission via spark gap transmitters and coherer circuits as receivers, for they have nothing to do with the subject under discussion other than being a historical precedent.
The real revolution came about as the result of the researches of a man with the unlikely name of Greenleaf Whittier Pickard.
Greenleaf Whittier Pickard (born Feb. 14, 1877, in Portland, Maine) discovered that certain crystals, when touched by a fine wire (called a cat?s whisker) in certain spots, were capable of detecting RF waves and converting the signal into audible form. Thus he discovered semiconductors. Pickard patented his device in 1906.
This led to the development of the crystal receiver, or crystal radio as it was later known, which made its general appearance in around 1920 when it became a fad to build these receivers amongst radio amateurs.
The first sets were almost unbelievably simple. Here is a picture of the most basic form. You can build one of these today, it will still work.
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fkeelytech.com%2Ffreischwinger%2Fdetector.jpg&hash=46042614d30701eace2cd680666f093e050614f1)
As you can see it consists of an antenna, a tuneable coil a crystal detector (commonly a Galena crystal touched by a very fine silver wire) and a set of high impedance headphones. Antennas were usually between 30 and 100 feet long and about 10 feet or more off the ground. A good earth and a good antenna are crucial. There was no power other than what the antenna could drag in, which was typically in the Micro-Watt to small Milli-Watt range.
The next real trick was to convert these very small currents into a pressure wave to make them audible. Luckily the device that could accomplish this was already invented. Telephones were then in existence and the telephone earpiece made a good starting point.
So how did this work?
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fkeelytech.com%2Ffreischwinger%2Ffs1.jpg&hash=7a53f19fba8a19cba1336403099f5464c1188834)
The feeble current was fed into the coil of an electromagnet A. This in turn magnetised the soft iron core B in harmony with the strength of the signal, attracting the steel membrane C accordingly and creating a compression and decompression zone adjacent to the membrane, allowing these pulses to be perceived by the human ear.
For convenience and to cut out extraneous noise two these devices were employed in parallel and clamped to the ears of the listener. A contemporary headset is pictured in Fig.2. Although the device pictured is from around 1930, they were available in almost unchanged form from around 1910 until the late 1950?s.
Coil impedance was generally between 1000 to 2000 Ohm, although coils with up to 4000 Ohm were in use at some time or other. This is very high by today?s standards where 8 or 16 Ohm are common. The coils were wound with incredibly thin wire, thinner than a human hair, often silk insulated, which was quite an engineering feat in itself at the time.
OK, so much for background history and technology.
Headphones, at the best of times, are a pain in the butt. The headsets of early times were a hundred times worse. The metal membrane kills virtually all bass and has a tinny, grating sound which is hard on the nerves for extended periods. On top of this searching for a station would, in between signals, pick up static that screeched in your ears and send you almost deaf. Not a really good experience I can tell you. Apart from this, the things are uncomfortable and do not allow sharing of the broadcast, as two headsets on a single receiver are too much for the signal to drive.
The race to make it audible to more than one person was on. Thus the loudspeaker was born. A number of avenues were explored, including the use of a gas flame but since they are only of peripheral interest I will leave them aside.
The breakthrough came when some bright spark came up with a novel idea.
History appears to be strangely silent on the events leading up to this monumental discovery, in fact the whole thing appears to have disappeared from the text books, except in nondescript allusions. Again, one wonders why.
Instead of using an electromagnet to energise the membrane by direct influence he did the following:
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fkeelytech.com%2Ffreischwinger%2Fpartial.jpg&hash=052ded6e91b12049ac09ecb271d217aefff9e5e1)
He placed a soft iron reed B mounted on a support H via a piece of spring steel G, put it inside the coil A instead of a traditionally rigid core and found that the reed vibrated with the magnetic fluctuations.
Thist would not have given him much sound, but he went further.
Next he placed a permanent magnet around the device in such a fashion that the iron reed moved between the jaws of a permanent horseshoe magnet. To make the effect more pronounced he added pole shoes to the magnet to concentrate the field in the vicinity of the iron reed. He then added a connecting rod and a paper membrane to the device.
Like this:
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fkeelytech.com%2Ffreischwinger%2Ffs2.jpg&hash=c49c05a9294d6cdba85f8dca189898afa7fb99e8)
The effect was stunning. Suddenly the signal was amplified many times, to the point where it could drive a 7 inch paper cone and make the signal audible way beyond what a headset could produce, without additional input of energy. WOW! Hello There! (I will come back to this later.)
The trouble with this device was its poor performance acoustically. If the signal got too strong the soft iron reed hit the permanent magnet and got stuck there for an instant before the signal dropped to a point where it let loose again. This meant that the device could only be run at low volume.
I don?t know who invented this device, in spite of all by best efforts I have not been able to find out. There MUST have been a patent, if it still exists, as it should, I have been unable to find it. Make of that what you will.
Patents aside, this is not where development stopped.
The next development in this area was what German literature calls the Freischwinger. English literature is strangely silent on the matter.
Again, I have trouble locating who was responsible for this. One would have thought that in relation to a device like this, which was used by countless manufacturers from around 1925 to 1945 at least, and is still being used in some devices today where quality does not matter as much as very low current consumption, the relevant patent should be readily locatable, but no such luck.
Anyway, here it is:
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fkeelytech.com%2Ffreischwinger%2Ffs3.jpg&hash=b4ba8cb17b105eaf59f5248674f1d870fd7a02bf)
So, what are we looking at here?
Someone, perhaps the original inventor, took the system one step further, Instead of placing the electromagnet and its sphere of influence inside the horseshoe magnet he put it outside. Though still within the field of influence of the horseshoe magnet, the soft iron reed was now free to move outside the limits of the pole shoes. (Thus the German term Freischwinger, which means ?free to swing?) This allowed for much bigger amplitude. The result was much increased volume. In fact optimum volume since the device has never been improved upon.
Leaving its poor acoustic performance aside, I think we are looking here at a genuine amplification phenomenon. Energy is entering from somewhere. Keely talks about this, so do a lot of others. Rather than following a lot of dead avenues such as the Tasnierius device, the Perendev or Minato wheels, which have not produced anything of value, I suggest you look at this phenomenon. At least it works. Is it overunity? I don?t know for sure, but I would say it is likely.
Just to show how real this is have a look at the following photos:
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fkeelytech.com%2Ffreischwinger%2Ffs4.jpg&hash=31e7ea3c0f2e932b6dcd854bfd4c42c7c46cf150)
This is a photo of the real thing. Notice the horseshoe magnet, the coil, the soft iron reed and the connecting rod that goes through the wall energising the membrane.
Here is the whole device, the Fl?chenlautsprecher Nora L 10 - Jahrgang 1926
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fkeelytech.com%2Ffreischwinger%2Ffs5.jpg&hash=fbab71c6861adc6bceeedb1f62f262dd26061aa8)
(sold and manufactured in 1926 in Germany) The German Volksempfaenger produced before and during the war had a similar loudspeaker.
G'day all,
@ Hans: hooray! another crystal radioer, come check us out in the crystal battery room.
The connection is obvious.
Ian
G'day Ian,
crystal battery room.?
Where is that? Google is strangely silent on the matter.
hans von Lieven
Sorry Hans, I should have said Crystal power cell by John Hutchison, next door lol
;D
Ian
Great post Hans, very informative, but it still has to be powered doesnt it?
@ Hans:
I agree with MrSpates, great post!
I was just thinking. (which can be dangerous) This speaker design was limited in fidelity right? I take that to mean it was limited in the frequencies it could reproduce. What if one took that system and designed a rotating device that responded to a particular frequency, ala Keely, and drove it with this speaker? What I mean is this...if it is limited in frequency range, it is probably very efficient in a small particular range. (compressed so to speak) therefore, one may be able to use this limitation to an advantage and make it do even more work by exciting a resonant sensitive device to do "work". Now that would definitely be OU in my opinion. Remember that small device that looked like a turbine you have posted on your website? (four cans with an opening on one end only that spins when hit with the correct freq.) I was thinking of a very small device similar to that one. Tuned to resonate at the optimum frequency that this antique voice coil design generates. As I said, dangerous when thinking here. What do you think?
@MrSpates:
Hans can correct me on this but I believe this device operates as does the radio from power obtained from the antenna and the earth ground only. Not energy from nothing of course, but free energy just the same.
Bill
Hans,
Thank you for a well written article. (again)
I am reminded to purchase a crystal radio kit. I had planned to do this on my return.
Bill,
Way back somewhere, I was wondering how to be able to detect a signal too small to show up on a LED and Ian Middleton told me that a small old type earphone, one like the ones used with crystal radios should do well. - (That is the reason I wanted to buy the crystal radio kit.)
I think this is a low input way to see what we are getting with the battery as we progress. Also, as a matter of fact, even though I was unable to get much in the way of amps or volts from my wee NS battery coils, I was able to hear a scratching sound from a speaker that was hand applied to various places of my batteries, as long as my batteries were moist.
so, I do think this is AS IS a straightforward way to detect the "information" that comes from our earth batteries.
Thank you again, Hans,
jeanna
hello hello ;D
I was just wondering if anybody has scoped the earth battery to see if it has a certain frequency component ?
I can remember i was reading a while back about this guy who had designed the ultimate Schumann-Resonance reciever.
But it was too sensitive, the device picked up all sorts of signals including driving by cars and the grid hum.
So he decided to replace his coil with some iron or copper rods and he sticked them into the ground in the back yard.
The result was superb as he got a nice clean signal out of the rods...
No more driving by cars etc.
Lightning sure can contribute to earth currents.
Also i have read about Tesla actually pulsing into the ground to get more out of it, in some sort of regeneration process similar to a regenerative reciever.
That might be worth a try too.
Nice topic guy's :)
M.
Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 27, 2008, 12:24:09 AM
Hans can correct me on this but I believe this device operates as does the radio from power obtained from the antenna and the earth ground only. Not energy from nothing of course, but free energy just the same.
G'day Bill and all,
These kind of speakers were generally built for 1 and 2 valve receivers mostly regenerative feedback types, though some of the real early ones used a crystal detector followed by a single triode amplifier if I remember rightly.
In a good reception area with a good antenna the speaker could be driven with a crystal detector only, albeit at low volume. But here we are talking about really feeble currents.
You are correct in that this arrangement favours certain frequency bands.
Hans von Lieven
Quote from: -[marco]- on February 27, 2008, 09:33:13 AM
hello hello ;D
I was just wondering if anybody has scoped the earth battery to see if it has a certain frequency component ?
I can remember i was reading a while back about this guy who had designed the ultimate Schumann-Resonance reciever.
But it was too sensitive, the device picked up all sorts of signals including driving by cars and the grid hum.
So he decided to replace his coil with some iron or copper rods and he sticked them into the ground in the back yard.
The result was superb as he got a nice clean signal out of the rods...
No more driving by cars etc.
Lightning sure can contribute to earth currents.
Also i have read about Tesla actually pulsing into the ground to get more out of it, in some sort of regeneration process similar to a regenerative reciever.
That might be worth a try too.
Nice topic guy's :)
M.
Yeah, I've always been curious as to wheather the earth would give back more than you put into it, same with the air. If you recall Tesla's greatest idea was to charge the air with aether to generate free power so people could put a simple receiver in the ground and have free electricity.
Hello Mr Spates
I believe Tesla build the great tower to transmit the energy to the recievers placed at far distance.
So it would not be free energy because it is being transmitted elswhere, but it can be recieved for free sort of like we recieve radio waves etc. you just need the reciever.
He also found out he could tap into huge magnetic waves so there might be some energy present.
I see nobody responded to my question about scoping the earth battery terminals.
Pherhaps i need to stick some rods into the ground myself :)
M.
;D double post
G'day all,
@Marco: yes, a number of years ago I attatched my old tektronix scope to 2 electrodes (iron and aluminium) in the ground
about 15 feet apart. The scope had an input impedance of 50Mohms and I got a reading of about 0.5V DC. On top of that there was about 100mV random noise with the occasional spike. This noise could be heard as a strong hiss with high impedance ear phones. If I placed my hand on one of the electrodes the random noise increased to over 200mV. The noise was of course AC
This experiment was done in England and the soil type was London clay.
Cheers
Ian
Quote from: ian middleton on February 28, 2008, 11:25:24 AM
G'day all,
@Marco: yes, a number of years ago I attatched my old tektronix scope to 2 electrodes (iron and aluminium) in the ground
about 15 feet apart. The scope had an input impedance of 50Mohms and I got a reading of about 0.5V DC. On top of that there was about 100mV random noise with the occasional spike. This noise could be heard as a strong hiss with high impedance ear phones. If I placed my hand on one of the electrodes the random noise increased to over 200mV. The noise was of course AC
This experiment was done in England and the soil type was London clay.
Cheers
Ian
Hello Ian
That is quite intresting....
This hiss sounds like lightning strokes to me.
Intresting you note it increases when you put your hand on top.
Capcitive coupling to the atmosphere of some kind?
I need to do some testing now ;D
M.
@ marco:
Also, I believe mramos scoped his attempt. It was posted back about a month ago or so. I don't know how to tell you where it is. I don't think he observed anything like Ian did but, he wasn't really getting any volts or mA out either. I believe he said he was in sandy soil in Florida possibly.
If I had a scope, I would be all over my electrodes and my new coils to see what was actually going on. Most of us have been reading ac all along with our digital meters and I have also shown ac with my analog one. It may be fooling the meters somehow or it is really there. I don't think we know for sure at this point except for what Ian just posted. I don't think a scope can be fooled like the dmms. I believe Ian's information is our first confirmed report of an ac component on these devices. Anyone can correct me here if I am wrong about this. Oh, and welcome to our group of experimenters. I think you will find it interesting.
Bill
Hi Pirate
At first i did not find this earth battery thing intresting becuse of the low power output.
But my intrest indeed is growing as we can switch more cells in series to get to a greater voltage.
I once had a pdf file about constructing a 12.8 volt earth battery but i cannot find it anymore.
I will try to look it up it was a very nice document.
Time for me to start sticking rods in the ground too :)
M.
@ Marco
You mean this?
http://theverylastpageoftheinternet.com/forsale/plans/earthbattery/ebpage2.htm
@ Hans
Hans, do you know how much electricity it takes (took) to vibrate the soft iron reed on that early loudspeaker? I'm not interested in making sound but real curious as to that reed moving up and down. I'm considering building one and was just wondering how strong and how far that reed could be made to work.
Thanks
David
Hi Mr Spates
That looks like it but i have somewhere a high quality document.
I will try to look it up this evening.
M.
Quote from: MrSpates on February 28, 2008, 02:41:44 PM
@ Marco
You mean this?
http://theverylastpageoftheinternet.com/forsale/plans/earthbattery/ebpage2.htm
Quote from: MrSpates on February 28, 2008, 09:23:11 PM
@ Hans
Hans, do you know how much electricity it takes (took) to vibrate the soft iron reed on that early loudspeaker? I'm not interested in making sound but real curious as to that reed moving up and down. I'm considering building one and was just wondering how strong and how far that reed could be made to work.
Thanks
David
Moving coil ammeters are based on the same idea. They are capable of picking up microamps.
Hans von Lieven
Hello Folks,
Sorry ive been mia my girlfriend broke her ankle and got a concussion so I've been playing mom. At least they gave her ample pain killers.
Ive finally got a little time this weekend to perfect the relay im working with so hopefully i'll be on my way to integrating that soon. As for the rotary gap im still acquiring parts.
@Marco
Welcome . I don't know how much of the thread you've made it through so far so heres the long and short. We started with a galvanic table and different metals in either sheet or rod form . The farther apart on the table the better the resultant voltage. A few here have successfully isolated cells meaning two pieces of metal with a flower pot, but those were our early experiments. A side focus has been constant throughout on the Nathan Stubblefield "Earth Battery" and wireless phone system. In the past few months our main focus has been on the Stubblefield earth Cell and the results have improved greatly. Make sure to not get confused when reading the bedini page and others about this cell because half of them are wrong and cant read. After exhausting reading of this patent we all came to a better understating of it and built our cells from that principal. He describes two physical devices in this patent. The cool part is this cell has great potential.
"The Primary" Coil is a bifilar wind of iron/steel wire and copper wire wound on a zinc or iron bolt/ threaded rod. The primary wires are insulated from the bolt/core with cloth as well so no electrical connection is made. The wires wound side by side all the way down and then back up no 90 degree cut like one would use in other circumstances. The iron wire must be insulated with cloth or fabric eg something water permeable , Theres a few audio stores that sell cloth tubing like a sheath at any diameter to suite your wire. The larger the gauge wire the better , more metal in essence. Im using The uninsulated strand of copper from a length of romex and some steel stranded wire/thick cable i found on a large spool in the basement. Make sure to insulate the separate layers meaning once wound from top to bottom take a piece of cloth and cover that whole layer and the wrap back up the iron bolt.
This will yield a reasonable ammt of power as it is if one wets it. Our highest readings were somewheres around .9 v 80 ma so plenty to run a few novelties but here is the good part.
A layer of insulation cloth should be placed around the primary when completed and the the secondary should be wound on that. Single peice of wire most of us are using magnet wire if that far, and bruce has some litz left which should be cool. after that is wound with as many layers as wanted the secondary should be secured. The secondary wire can be insulated in mica, varnish plastic or any of the normal ones.
So you wet the thing down, take one lead of the copper from the primary and one lead of the steel wire and touch them together. if this connection is held it makes what NS reffered to in the patent as a SELF SUSTAINING ELECTROMAGNET. the secondary in turn is hooked up to a mic or telegraphic relay .
The EARTH BATTERY is actually what he refers to as a PRACTICALLY SELF GENERATING INDUCTION COIL. It states All that is needed to Make This device work is the normal make and break of the connection between the wires 5 and 6 in the patent which are the copper and the steel/iron wires from the primary their other ends are just left free not touch to preserve the character of the electrodes it states. Now when you make and break that connection in the primary it disturbs the secondary and ac voltage/ current shows up on the secondary wire ( Litz or magnet wire).. The faster i did it the higher the ac readings were from the secondary. So with a relay to preform this function or a passive rotary spark gap this can be achieved.
This is where were at now and working on both avenues, The relay can be built into the cell itself on the top with a springy piece of metal and a contact point. when the connection is made the center bolt will act as an electromagnet momentarily and suck the springy metal towards it breaking the connection and releasing it back to the contact point for the process to happen over and over again. The "relay" is self powered from the copper and steel/iron terminals from the primary. This is one testing route im working on.
I think it would be more promising if someone were able to use a rotary gap on a hobby motor powered by a double a or something with a potentiometer on it to adj speed/freq that way the output of the secondary could be tuned since it directly relates to the speed of the making and breaking of the primary.
Feel fee to ask us for pics or whatever else you need to get started if you want to build one. But electronics knowledge is always appreciated even if you don't have time to build ;) :)
Thanks for your interest,
Joe
@ Joe:
Excellent synopsis of our progress thus far. I am still experimenting.
Bill
Hi All,
As some of you may know, my scientific background is as an experimental biologist. I only used this in my career for 2 years and that long ago, but some attitudes die hard. ;) I was having a hard time with the 'spray' of new elements that were suddenly added all at once when we shifted to making the NS bifilar coil with a secondary wrapped over that. I just needed to isolate some of the elements for myself. And so, I will share with you what I did today and what I found as results.
Here goes:
The following is a NON-GALVANIC, BiFilar winding both without an iron core and WITH an iron core. (reflecting the coil body 4 without and with core piece 1)
I wrapped a plastic drinking straw with a bifilar winding of 24 gauge copper and 24 gauge galvanized steel. The copper is a piece of plastic coated telephone wire.
There are 50 winds of each wire per layer and 4 layers. I imperfectly covered each layer with tape to make a separation of the layers and to make winding easier. (I probably should have make a more perfect separation, but since it is dry I may have escaped trouble here.)
I attached DMM probes with clips onto Cu terminal 5 with Red + and Fe terminal 6 with Black -.
1- touched Terminal 10 Fe with a magnet.
=zero volts or amps
2- Shorted terminals 5, 6
= zero
Edit: for clarity, I touched these terminals with one hand on the Fe wire 6, the other on the Cu wire 5
3- with DRY fingers, I pinched terminals 5, 6
0.050VAC-0.100VAC (50-100 millivolts ac!)
0.205VDC
0.3u(micro) Amps
4- with WET fingers (saliva) I pinched terminals 5,6
0.700VAC
0.500VDC
2.9-3.0 uAmps
Now, I added a galvanized sheetrock screw inside the straw. It is almost as long as the winds. I repeated the tests.
5- with DRY fingers, I pinched terminals 5, 6
0.100VAC-0.200VAC
0.220VDC
0.1-2.0 u(micro) Amps (this slowly rose over 10 seconds)
6-with WET fingers (saliva) I pinched terminals 5,6
0.400VAC
0.500. 0.470, 0.450 VDC in 3 successive hits
3.7, 2.7, 2.5 uAmps in 3 successive hits
There are also 2 results using a compass.
(Remember the whole thing is non galvanic and dry.)
The bottom of the coil pulls the S pole of the compass to itself.
The sheetrock screw that I tested and which showed ZERO effect on the compass before going into the straw had a very strong effect on it when I removed it from the straw after only a few minutes of pinching and testing!
The head of the screw that was for a short time at the top of the coil by the terminals, now has a strong N magnetism.
Ahh, I feel so much more informed. (Don't you? ;D ;D )
Thanks for your time reading this,
jeanna
Edit:
P.S. There seems to be an amplifier effect. If I pinch the probes of my dmm I see around 0.020 VDC (this changes with my brain chemistry, of course ;) ) BUT when I pinch the terminals 5,6 I get 0.200vdc. This is an amplification of 10 times. Of course, I could be misunderstanding what I see.
I also do not read any amps or vac which could just mean they are too small to read.
I also do not read any resistance from my fingers which I had expected.
G?day all,
Here is the motor design I promised. I have posted it elsewhere but I thought I want to share it with my friends here also, since it is in a way applicable to this thread.
Anyway, I hope I am not annoying anyone.
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Before we go into the design concept for a motor, let?s have a look at the principle involved here.
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fkeelytech.com%2Ffreischwinger%2Ffreischwingerprinciple.jpg&hash=cb90c78778f635f62b46a27da31810d7ab04d6c7)
Fig. 1 shows the device at rest. There is no power supplied to the coil. The soft iron reed sits at the midpoint between the poles, held in place by a spring. Since un-magnetised iron gets attracted by either pole there is equal pull from both sides, therefore the device is in a state of equilibrium.
Fig 2 shows the coil being energised by a forward current. The soft iron reed has now become an electromagnet. The illustration shows the forward current forming a south pole facing the horseshoe magnet. The reed is now attracted by N and repelled by S giving it sharp unidirectional movement.
Fig 3 shows the current being reversed in polarity resulting in movement in the opposite direction.
What is remarkable here is that it needs very little power for these reactions to occur. The slightest magnetic bias in relation to the magnetic field of the horseshoe magnet triggers a reaction. The real work is done by the permanent magnet.
I see it like putting up a sail in a breeze. The more sail you put up the more power is delivered to your boat because you catch more of the wind.
Similarly here, the stronger the bias the more of the energy latent in the permanent magnet is caught.
Now this is where I get into trouble with conventional physics. Conventional physics sees the permanent magnet more like an anchor against which the electromagnet pushes or pulls itself toward dependent on polarity.
My leaning is more in line with Leedskalnin and Keely who see magnetism as two opposing streams of very real particles which cannot be created but only channelled by such things a permanent magnets and electromagnets and a whole host of other things where the effects are not as readily observable.
I see the permanent magnet like some sort of a canal where the particle flows are determined by the physical constraints of the channels, whereas I see the electromagnet as a sort of two way valve controlled by an electric current.
Of course what I am saying here is pure heresy as far as conventional physics is concerned, but I have been called a heretic before, so it does not distress me unduly.
But back to our subject. The two main questions that need to be answered are: Can a motor be built using the Freischwinger system? and Does such a motor exhibit overunity?
The answer to the first question is: Yes a motor along those principles can be built with comparative ease.
As to the overunity question: Perhaps it can, experiment will tell.
So how would one go about designing such a motor?
Playing around with the fundamental principle I came up with the following approaches:
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fkeelytech.com%2Ffreischwinger%2Fdevelopideas.jpg&hash=4e9957446a1cb9c0393d9f746e58c1cc8a6cce21)
Fig. 4 is just a extension of the original device. I have put two discrete magnets here, though a horseshoe magnet can be put in its place. At the moment I don?t know if discrete magnets work in the same fashion. Something to find out.
I extended the reed upwards from the pivot to get more horizontal movement in order to drive a simple Faraday generator. The springs are still required to keep the device centred when quiescent. I did not like this as it costs energy. I decided to do away with it.
Fig. 5 shows a pendulum arrangement. This was a bad idea! I decided to try a pendulum to get rid of the spring. The problem with this is the natural frequency of the pendulum.
The natural frequency of a pendulum is solely dependent on the distance between the fulcrum and the centre of gravity. In most places on earth (as gravity varies with latitude) that means that a one peter pendulum completes one cycle every two seconds, a 25 cm pendulum has a natural frequency of 1 cps and so forth. Since 1 cps was far too low for any practical application and 25 cm was about as small as you can get that meant that whatever pulses I fed into the device would have to overcome the natural frequency and force the vibrations. That would have cost a lot more than a spring in terms of energy, so it was back to the drawing board. Besides, I was unhappy with the reciprocal action of the device. Converting reciprocal movement into something usable is always inefficient and cumbersome. That is when I decided to try a wheel.
Fig. 6 shows the next arrangement. It became immediately clear that here was a far more elegant solution. I could try for rotation.
The result was the following design.
Sorry fellows, on this one I am reserving my copyright, because I think here is a very real chance for something worthwhile, perhaps not overunity, but at least a fairly substantial motor that can run on very little energy. You can build the thing for yourself and play with it as much as you like, power your house or car with it if you can, I wish you well. Only where commercial exploitation is concerned I reserve my rights.
So here it is:
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fkeelytech.com%2Ffreischwinger%2Fmotorconcept.jpg&hash=c6bf676601201bc2a92cebb4349f87f554cbdc16)
Now this looks suspiciously like a common garden electromotor. So why should this thing be any better?
It requires only small pulses of energy to run.
Here is the animation:
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fkeelytech.com%2Ffreischwinger%2Fmotorconceptanimation.gif&hash=0f62af3ae71ed8eeb5444826ea35a47a62a42bb8)
Now we come to the pulsing required to get the device to work.
Before we get into this though we must take another look at the Freischwinger system in its original form. Because the energised soft iron reed moves between the poles of a magnet there is a definite limit to the amount of movement available. No amount of power will propel it beyond this.
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fkeelytech.com%2Ffreischwinger%2Flimit.jpg&hash=7e349704516f4ac56c8b9234b0203bae194dbc3d)
Fig. 7 shows the limits of movement.
In position
A the iron reed is un-energised. Since iron is attracted to either pole both poles exert equal pull, the forces balance each other out, and the system is in equilibrium.
If we now energise the reed by turning the coil on, it will become an electromagnet with two distinct poles. We can reverse the polarity of the electromagnet by reversing the flow of current through the coil.
Shall we say a forward current polarises the reed with the north pole facing the permanent magnet. Since like poles repel and unlike poles attract the reed is propelled by both poles to the right, up to the strongest point of attraction (point
B). There it will come to rest, having found the point of equilibrium of all participating forces.
Reversing polarity will move the reed in the opposite direction and stop at point
C.
If we switch the power off at the extreme points the iron reed will just stick there since it is still attracted, albeit with diminished power. That is why the spring is necessary to bring the reed back to the neutral mid point.
In the design of the motor we have to deal with these ?stick points? in some way before we can induce rotation. This we can do with well timed pulses.
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fkeelytech.com%2Ffreischwinger%2Fpulses.jpg&hash=bddf73c581fcf234d103822395b9c6f0e9f79f04)
Fig. 8 shows the pulse sequence.
The first pulse is applied as the reed reaches the limit of the magnetic sphere of influence of the horseshoe magnet (
A). Strictly speaking this pulse is not required as the soft iron reed is attracted naturally, but an energy injection at this point is advantageous.
The polarity must be reversed when the ?stick point? is reached (here indicated by the black line). This polarity must be kept up until the next ?stick point? is reached (black line in
B).
Now we must reverse again (
C) until the reed is outside the sphere of influence of the horseshoe magnet.
Needless to say that all four magnets in the motor are energised simultaneously.
Thus we have rotation.Hans von Lieven
@ Hans
Another great post. My question is how are you going to charge the four magnets while they are all spinning? Would you use brushes? and my guess is you'd have to use alternating current to get the magnets to reverse fast enough. I had basically the same idea but was thinking in terms of direct current and was under the impression that the reed would move back and forth quickly in a vibrating sort of way (it wouldn't do that with DC but probably would using AC). It would be great if you had a way to get some free AC.
David
@ David
What about the AC that we've al measured on our cells?
Or have we all come to the conclusion that our meters are wrong?
Sid
@ All
Does anyone think that the laminated iron core of a transformer would make a good "soft iron" core for a coil?
Sid
@Sid
I don't think it would help with this exp but feel free to try. The welding rod people commonly use for core material in bedini motors is a possibility tho.
Joe
Quote from: sid10 on March 01, 2008, 10:32:05 AM
@ David
What about the AC that we've al measured on our cells?
Or have we all come to the conclusion that our meters are wrong?
Sid
I don't know as I have yet to try it. Still looking around for a soft iron reed. By the way you mentioned laminated iron cores off of transformers. Are all transformers made this way? I got a bunch of them but can't tell if they are steel or iron.
@ Sid
Old transformer sheets are an excellent source of soft iron, but why not use soft ferrite instead? You can get soft ferrite rod (antenna rods) from any electronics store. They are about 9mm in diameter and come in different lengths. They also do not rust. Better than welding rods, I can assure you. I make my coils by taking a piece of suitable heatshrink tubing, put it over the rod, use a hair dryer to shrink it on and wind my coil straight on top of this. Works a treat. You can also wind your coil straight on top of the rod as it is not electrically conductive.
Hans von Lieven
Hans,
After last night's experiments, I am wondering if you will get an extra pulse or charge if instead of using straight copper for your coils, you were to make and use a bi-metal, bifilar coil?
jeanna
@ Jeanna,
That is a very interesting question, one that can only be settled by experiment, since there are no data available on these type of coils.
Hans von Lieven
@ Hans:
Very elegant design indeed! Simplicity in itself, but then, all great designs are in my opinion. (Or should be.) If you get that to rotate with such a small input, and then, possibly pull the input from the N.S. cell/s to power it, wow. No one has done anything like that to date that I am aware of. It could be self powered totally! If that is not OU then I guess I don't know what would be.
@ Jeanna:
It seems every time we do an experiment, it opens the door and the need for more experiments. That is good because that is my favorite part of the research anyway.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on March 01, 2008, 03:09:00 PM
That is good because that is my favorite part of the research anyway.
Bill
I agree, of course ;) .
I don't have the machining skills. My best shot at making a disk is to take one of those old maybe Joan Baez vintage records I insist on moving with me and add stuff to it. I don't think I am at the level where I could actually make this beautiful design -yet. I would be asking how to create the necessary timing if I were.
But you are.
:D
I would like to see this be made.
@Hans are you building one now?
Meanwhile, I am very intrigued by the amplification I discovered last night. I think it can find a place in many of the designs we already have.
This bi-metal bifilar thing got lost. More lost than tesla's things. I been thinking it can have immediate application in the tpu designs.
jeanna
@ Jeanna,
The Stubblefield coil IS a TPU without the toroid. Same idea.
Hans
Yes, I am going to build this, as soon as I have my switching mechanism sorted out.
Quote from: hansvonlieven on March 01, 2008, 05:33:58 PM
@ Jeanna,
The Stubblefield coil IS a TPU without the toroid. Same idea.
Hans
Yeah, I have been thinking just that - only NS didn't do the other coils around the ring etc. I think it should be tried by the tpu folks.
Quote
Yes, I am going to build this, as soon as I have my switching mechanism sorted out.
Good. Does this mean you haven't decided on the best swithing for this? Or, perhaps the best placement?
I am looking forward to see this.
:D
jeanna
I just bought a carriage bolt that fits inside a straw. I am off to make a better version of last night's marvel.
@ Jeanna,
The timing of the pulses and the pulse-width is critical and needs to be accurate. By nature this needs to be an electro-mechanical device. There are a few options, hall effect sensors, opto-electronics, reed switches, point contacts and so forth. Each one has advantages and disadvantages. I have not made up my mind yet which one is best suited for this kind of motor.
There is no rush, I just want to get it right.
Hans
@ David
All the ones that I've scavanged for the wire have been.
@ Hans
Do you mean the type of antenna that I would buy if I wanted to replace a broke one. Like the one on my transistor radio?
Sid
@ all
Just to inform you, l built a coil using air insulation and a carbon rod out of a battery and it didnt work at all. What I did was cut out two disks and drilled a hole in the disk the size of the rod, next I made some streamers from balsa wood and connected the two disks the length of the rod and wound my coil over this using #30 magnet wire. I guess there was 1/8 of an inch air gap on all sides. My reading was .04 dc but I think the reading was more from the sweat of my hands than anything else.
Quote from: sid10 on March 01, 2008, 08:11:43 PM
@ Hans
Do you mean the type of antenna that I would buy if I wanted to replace a broke one. Like the one on my transistor radio?
Sid
Yes exactly, this is the right kind of soft ferrite. They come in round rods and in flat bars.
Hans von Lieven
@ all
Found this today while surfing around. Its a low voltage dc booster. I dont know where you can buy a single unit as the only ones I've seen so far come in lots of 100 at around 2.65 each. Claims a start-up voltage of 0.5dc and runs off a minimum of 0.3 dc which most of our home built coils can easily do.How much it boosts it to, I have no idea, but looks interesting.
DALLAS (March 27, 2007) -- Texas Instruments Incorporated (TI) (NYSE: TXN) introduced today the industry's lowest input voltage DC/DC boost converter, which will enable portable electronic end-equipment to draw power from new energy sources, such as solar and micro-fuel cells. The tiny power circuit can operate with input voltages lower than 0.3-V with high efficiency, allowing designers to overcome the low-voltage design barrier of incorporating these alternative energy sources in applications, such as mobile phones, portable medical devices and media players. See: www.ti.com/sc07062.
Hi all,
I just have a small bit to report now.
I made a 6 layer bi-metal, bifilar 'coil body 4' and tested it in the same way as yesterday. At first it was confusing. My results seemed to be lower, then I realized that my GSR is lower today.
So, I tested each configuration with each 'coil body 4' and found that they are exactly the same. 2 layers is the same as 6 layers!
Thats all for now!
jeanna
G'day all,
Sad news.
The motor, as designed DOES NOT WORK ! The results of some tests I did it show clearly that it is not a goer in its present form. I will write my tests up. I just want to issue this warning now already so no-one wastes time and money on a dud.
Back to the drawing board, and haven't we all been there before. >:(
Hans von Lieven
G?day all,
Well, as they say: ?The best laid plans of mice and men?.?
As it is the motor is a dud. I should have known! I have no excuse other than getting carried away with what turned out to be a stupid idea
Let me tell you how I found out.
When I published my first test concept I used discrete magnets instead of the horseshoe magnet as specified in the Freischwinger. Post 19, page 2 in the original thread.
Tak22 expressed doubts about this. He said: ? I'm still not sure this can be done without a horseshoe style magnet. Can't know for sure until tried I guess.? Post 20, page 2.
I decided to test this. In my tests I used several configurations.
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fkeelytech.com%2Ffreischwinger%2Ftestconfigurations.jpg&hash=d8e5a9dcc556562ba30182561b7753310ac096c7)
Here are the seven configurations I tried.
Fig. 1 shows the horseshoe arrangement as in the original Freischwinger.
Fig. 2 shows the use of two discrete magnets in horizontal alignment.
Fig. 3 shows the use of a bar magnet.
Fig. 4 shows the use of two discrete magnets in vertical alignment.
Fig. 5 shows the use of two discrete magnets in vertical alignment with a steel bar.
connecting the magnets, thus mimicking a horseshoe magnet.
Fig. 6 shows the use of a magnadur magnet. (Magnadur magnets are ceramic
magnets with their poles on their flat faces).
Fig. 7 shows the use of two magnadur magnets connected with an iron yoke.
In contrast to the Freischwinger the reed did not move inside an air coil. I simply wound the coil directly on the reed itself as I was not interested in the detrimental effects in relation to sound fidelity. All I wanted to test was movement.
This is where it showed up that the motor as designed does not work. In all instances the application of a forward or reverse current sent the reed in the appropriate direction up to the strongest point of attraction, the dreaded ?stick point?. At this point, I erroneously thought, that the application of a reverse current will propel it further. This worked well, but only in one direction, in the direction away from the midpoint!
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fkeelytech.com%2Ffreischwinger%2Freversepolarity.jpg&hash=2755b71a106163f13f7073e69e6ec987c8b96e4c)
This means of course that the horseshoe arrangement in the motor is out. As the reed approaches the magnet there is a counter force which cannot be eliminated with a pulse. Perhaps this could be overcome with inertia from a flywheel, but that is not the idea here. On the other side of the magnet it is an asset, since a pulse applied there aids rotation.
Does that mean the motor is doomed?
Not at all. It just needs a bit of revamping. My tests indicate that this can be done. I will write up my test results and the changes to the design shortly. I just wanted to show now why it does not work as designed before someone tries to build it.
Hans von Lieven
Quote from: jeanna on March 02, 2008, 01:06:22 AM
Hi all,
I just have a small bit to report now.
I made a 6 layer bi-metal, bifilar 'coil body 4' and tested it in the same way as yesterday. At first it was confusing. My results seemed to be lower, then I realized that my GSR is lower today.
So, I tested each configuration with each 'coil body 4' and found that they are exactly the same. 2 layers is the same as 6 layers!
Thats all for now!
jeanna
@jeanna
Thats not consistent with results thus far if you have some pics maybe we could evaluate and help you see whats going on with it as well whats the gauge wire you using?
Joe
Quote from: Localjoe on March 02, 2008, 06:13:31 PM
results thus far if you have some pics maybe we could evaluate and help you see whats going on with it as well whats the gauge wire you using?
Joe
Joe,
Did anyone else make one of these and specifically try to avoid galvanic reax and JUST look at the 2 metals wound together without the secondary?
I didn't think so, my apologies for adding nothing new. ;)
I described this thing in detail last page. It is 24 gauge wire for both etc. check out last page's (maybe feb 29- just after your description to marco and before Hans' description of his motor) post for details, please.
jeanna
@ hans
Good to read your results. I'm in the process of building the Freischwinger device not for a motor but for an entirely different project. Your posts saved me a lot of time. As long as I know I can get the back and forth motion from the reed, I'm home free and will continue to build the device.
Hi All,
I did the last (!) of my experiments on the straw made into a 'coil body4' today. The findings are easy, but hard to explain clearly.
I made a little circuit 3 times.
These are the components in all 3 of the circuits:
2 AAA batteries 2.45VDC.
11.6 ohm resistor,
a little motor that wants 3.5V at 20mA but works with less.
1-The first circuit is only those parts listed above. I took readings everywhere, even in the piece of wire between the motor and the battery.
2- The second circuit is made as above with the addition of the straw wound with bimetal bifilar in 6 layers. where the Cu leads 5 and 10 are attached to the rest of the circuit.
3- The third circuit is made as above with the addition of the straw wound with bimetal bifilar in 6 layers. where the Fe leads 6 and 10 are attached to the rest of the circuit.
All the readings were pretty normal. The Fe wire has more resistance than the Cu wire so the voltages were down a little.
Here are the parts that seem unusual.
If I now connect the motor circuit to one Cu and one Fe (terminals 5,6) the motor stops, (no surprise, there is no circuit there) and with the dmm probes on the remaining Fe and Cu wires, the voltage reading is 2.43VDC (If there is no circuit,,, where did that voltage come from?) and I can unhook the Cu and the voltage of the Fe will be 2.43V but I cannot unhook the Fe wire. The Cu wire will not show a voltage.
Also, within the circuit that makes the motor run, the
FE wire of the Bimetal coil has a resistance of 7.2 ohms and a voltage of 0.130V and the
Cu wire has a resistance of 1.4 ohms and a voltage of 0.020V.
So with a little E=IR action, this means there are
18mA in the Fe part of the coil and
14mA in the Cu part.
This is in addition to what is in the plain circuit because nothing else has changed.
The last thing I wish to include in this is that at the end of all this with the battery running through the coil for a couple of hours on and off, there is NO magnetism that makes the coil do anything to a compass.
EDIT: Today Mar3. I've managed to magnetize this like all the rest. I am just using it in series with a supercap circuit to run the motor. Maybe I will try to demagnetize it somehow later. ;D j
I made a drawing, but it is not as complete as these words. Sorry :'(
here it is anyway:
jeanna
okay guy's i found the document :)
I did also find " free electricity from the sky" and "The Manual of Free Energy Devices and Systems (1991)" and a "Battery Reference Book" but these are too lage to upload.(above 10 Mb)
M.
Quote from: -[marco]- on March 03, 2008, 09:52:25 AM
okay guy's i found the document :)
M.
Go ahead, Marco,
It is good experience to try this. I don't think the authors of that ever actually tried it before they published it. Try it for yourself, maybe your experience will be different from mine.
Would you mind quoting the link to the other references that you found? (the ones that were too big)
Thanks
jeanna
hi Jeanna
I saved the bigger ones on my hard disk a few years back.
They are too big to upload so i have asked Stefan to expand the upload limit of 10Mb to 15Mb
He reduced the limit to 100Kb....yesterday and now i see it's even more reduced to 50Kb.
I don't know how to upload them.
Marco.
G'day all,
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebook3000.com%2FImage%2F2008225128549377801.jpg&hash=1856ddc8298660b47f0431d0598cda50a11923a0)
free download here:
http://www.ebook3000.com/Battery-Reference-Book--Third-Edition---REPOST-_9710.html
Hans von Lieven
Hi, my first post...
I was reading the Stubblefield info on John Bedini's site at:
http://www.icehouse.net/john34/stubblefield.html
and saw this:
Later, Investigators entered his land area and found heavy wires leading from the roots of trees. To these wires were attached small arc lamps, hung in the trees. These were extinguished. They imagined the arc lamps to be the explanation of his hillside sunlight. Their hasty analysis proved problematic from stories which witnesses report. The warm and diffused sunlight which came from the ground itself around his house was not localized in specific lamps. The light came from the ground, not from the trees as before... a "whole hillside that would blossom with light"... "lit up like daytime". These observations indicate that Stubblefield had managed indeed the direct conversion of earth energy to light and warmth. This would acceptable, were Mr. Stubblefield simply working on a newer form of drawing electricity from the ground to light small arc-lamps; a feat which he had accomplished earlier. But these kind persons could never find any evidence of arc-lighting or any other form of known lighting anywhere near the area. In their own words "the light seemed to come out from the ground itself".
I believe that the Brown Mountain lights:
http://www.xprojectmagazine.com/archives/paranormal/brnmntlights.html
may be a manifestation of the telluric current.
My apologies if I have overlooked a post about this association.
Hans:
That looks like a great book. I tried to get it. Your link worked but their download link says "File not found". I will try again later.
Was anyone else able to download it?
Bill
Sorry about this, I did not try the link until now, same result.
All I can suggest is if marco sends me the two files by e-mail, hans@keelytech.com , I will upload it to my website and you can all download it from there. Best I can do I'm afraid.
Hans von Lieven
Hi ya'll.
Inspired by this thread, I drove a 1/2 "copper pipe into the ground (south, it turns out) about 20-25 yards from my backyard wire garden cage, which is very grounded due to a bunch of t-posts around the perimeter. I ran some old phone line from the cage to my copper pipe and my first measurement was .458 DC at .01 amps. I drove it down a little further to about 15" and it now initially reads .452 DC. My last measurement before I sank it lower was .459 DC. There's a very small AC component, and I'll need to check that out with my scope.
The amps reading is iffy as it reads that on ac and dc and seems to want to read that unterminated too. It's a fluke handheld meter. I tied the green and red wires to separate points on the cage and both individually are reading the same. I checked an unterminated wire and it read zero volts. I'll be changing the configuration around, but it's pretty exciting so far.
I need to see what a load will do. I have some solar powered lights (LED) that have dead nicads that I will attempt to light later on.
I wanted to thank everyone for their input here. I've been lurking for sometime now, mostly on the Steven Mark TPU threads.
The post about the Brown mountain lights (and there are plenty of 'supernatural' sites all over the world with unexplained lights) just rings so true for me. I see 'Ley Lines' explained by this too. Maybe it all ties in? I do not think it's a stretch.
When we moved here, I was looking for a buried gutter drain back there by dowsing with 2 L-shaped bare copper wires. I found this weird area that I proceeded to dig (there's no power, cable, phone, water or anything back there). I dug pretty deep, and saw nothing. The dowsing always sees something though. Using the dowsing method, I can find the phone wire easily, and have found a PVC water line (pressurized) before, which surprised me as I thought it needed to be metal.
I think, from reading further, that night time with an infrared scope or something might 'illuminate' the kind of hot spot mentioned by Stubblefield. I don't have anything like that as I've had no need for it before.
Quote from: epiphany on March 04, 2008, 07:12:22 PM
Welcome to the thread epiphany, I look forward to your input. If you could post some images of your scope shots, that would be great. I'm also interested in dowsing, and wonder if you could describe your process of finding stuff. I think there has to be hotspots, along with dry spots as well given that all the terrain is different and composed differently.
The Brown mountain lights is an interesting phenomenon, I've always thought is was piezoelectrics, but who knows, from the descriptions it could be something a lot more strange.
Quote from: Freezer on March 04, 2008, 08:16:30 PM
Hi Freezer and thanks for the welcome.
About the dowsing: I have 2 pieces of copper ground wire (I was told any metal will work) that are 24" long and bent into an 'L' shape. I hold these in front of me so my hands are up, elbows comfortably to my sides, and my hands are comfortably holding the rods so that one leg of the L is pointing at the ground and the other leg is parallel to the ground. The rods are held so they can pivot easily but are pointed forward initially. You walk forward and when you come across something the rods cross. It's almost like a stud finder. You can back up, straighten out the rods, walk forward and they will cross dependably in the same spot. I've shown the technique to others as it was shown to me, and it seems to work for everyone so far. I watched a water department guy here use the technique on his own. Same thing: two L shaped rods, only his 'down' rod was shorter, so I guess that isn't so important as the horizontal rod.
I'll be back on the ground voltage tests tomorrow!
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg249.imageshack.us%2Fimg249%2F1682%2Fharharev5.jpg&hash=2f83f09f6a7080809a42860dd832f8c65452deb2)
Loads and loads of digital book on all sorts of things,
however direct link to download the Battery Reference Book, Third Edition click on link below this sentence alone,
http://www.mediafire.com/?f3mtnmm5m0l (this mediafire link is to download the Battery Reference Book 3rd ed , size 26.9 mb needs winrar to open)
or if your interested in the huge collection click on this link (you need u torrent or other torrent client)
http://isohunt.com/torrent_details/20751537/T+R+CROMPTON?tab=summary
over 1gb.
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg249.imageshack.us%2Fimg249%2F7153%2Fyayzt6.jpg&hash=cf1114c73c10aad3d62afa41375e41a3ac14c682)
My plan for today was to make a good secondary on a spool and an ordinary choke to use for some of the same tests I have been using to test this bimetal bifilar coil.
But instead I found the tool I have been looking for. In Forest Mimms111 mini electronics book I noticed he had a magnetometer design.
It turns out that I was pretty close when using the compass.
Forest Mimms111 says you can make a device to check on magnetism. A compass when used as a galvanometer is wrapped with 60 turns of mag wire. (This is what I had in my hands when I saw all those wonky compass readings.) FYI the ends of the mag wire get attached to a battery or a coil's leads and the needle will deflect according to the magnetic field that is produced in the coil surrounding the compass. Polarity changes with winding direction or external coil, too.
But he says there are a couple of other ways to make a galvanometer. One way is to have an EXTERNAL COIL near to the compass and when the coil gets a charge running through it the compass needle will deflect showing magnetism (and direction, too)
The other way is to use a REED RELAY. Now, I am not sure how to use the reed relay here, and Mimms goes on to suggest a circuit that uses a 555 timer and a cap and some resistors to pulse the charge which will have the compass needle swing back and forth like a pendulum.
But, I do think that Joe and/or Hans (Ian, maybe?) has already made something close.
Please step up anybody who has ideas on this.
I think ALL this is very significant for us.
He also mentions a MAGNETIC EARPIECE which works (thanks, Ian ;D ) , but doesn't quantify very well.
So, what I did so far today is I went through 4 of my coils and checked them with a compass. I made the coils and compass stay in the same spot but changed the charge I put on the terminals from an external (known voltage) battery.
Wow.
I want to finish and write it up all at once, but I also wanted to say these things cuz I think they will get some more ideas flowing.
Very basically, then, if I hit the copper terminals 5,10 with the leads of a battery, the compass will move and stay where it gets to. If I reverse the polarity the compass will reverse and stay in the new place. BUT when I hit the Fe6 and Fe10 leads and get the compass to reverse, when I remove the battery, the compass swings back to North.
When I tried this on the secondary it would do a similar permanent reversal to the Cu5,10 reversal.
At first I was holding the coils upright in a jar, which I think is better, but some of the wires were hard to reach and I just shifted to put the coil with the head of wires facing south and putting the compass about 4 inches to the west. just close enough to see the effect.
So, anybody else with a compass, please give this a try. Please try to replicate my findings.
My way to go about these type of things is to see what we can know about what we have then play with it to push it elsewhere.
I need to wind a good secondary and a normal solenoid type coil.
BBL
jeanna
Jeanna
Your post on taking magnetic redings got me thinking.
I have been following this thread for a while , I never got all the way through it though.
If I understand right . When you wrap your bifilar primary then connect one set of the copper and iron wires together you get what Stubblefield calls an electromagnet
Any ideas about how to make this electomagnet effect stronger ?
I think I read that winding more than 2 layers does not change the voltage ......but does it change how strong the electromagnet is ?
If you disconnect the original pair of copper and iron wires and connect the other ends of the pair ....... does the electromagnet switch polarity ?
If so, it seems to me a motor is possible.
Maybe not a powerful motor ......but if it can turn a compass a few of them can turn a rotor.
gary
Quote from: jeanna on March 05, 2008, 06:50:22 PM
I just finished a 555 reed relay today. The circuit takes about 4.5 volts to activate the reed. The 2 resistors and capacitor determine the 2 timings. I used a potentiometer in place of the resistors, to have it adjustable. There is also another way to do it which would be ss. It doesn't actually use a relay, but a photo-transistor.
http://www.uoguelph.ca/~antoon/circ/solidstate.html
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg108.imageshack.us%2Fimg108%2F6057%2F555reedap8.jpg&hash=431bdfa0b87cb5e68f59823b6a7b7c73243d1f18)
Hi folks,
@Gary
QuoteAny ideas about how to make this electomagnet effect stronger ?
I think I read that winding more than 2 layers does not change the voltage ......but does it change how strong the electromagnet is ?
If you disconnect the original pair of copper and iron wires and connect the other ends of the pair ....... does the electromagnet switch polarity ?
If so, it seems to me a motor is possible.
I think stronger is possible. I am going this less modern way in a personal effort to observe things that NS might have observed. In this way, I am hoping to get some of the same insights, which I believe have been lost.
I am not really sure that more than 2 winds doesn't increase the voltage. It didn't on the 2 I tried the other day. Maybe thicker wire will do it maybe a longer or larger diameter coil will do it.
I have a little motor which will switch direction if I switch the polarity of the battery leads, so, I am quite sure running an AC device (if that is what you meant) is possible.
@freezer,
QuoteI just finished a 555 reed relay today. The circuit takes about 4.5 volts to activate the reed
Excellent!!
4.5 volts to activate the reed sounds like a lot, but we'll see. ;)
Good work!
---------
So, today's work is to make 3 coils with the same size elements and compare them.
1), 2) I already made
3) I just need to finish an ordinary coil made with the copper going down then straight up (Joe, is that what you call 90 degrees?) for 6 layers. Then they will be comparable and I can test them.
So, I am off to do that,
Thank you
jeanna
There are some great ideas on this thread. I'm not ready for pursuing electronics just yet, although I've had experience.
Yesterday, I decided to see if placing the copper pipe north of my cage would make a difference, with the idea of an N/S alignment happening eventually. Since this cage is so big, I think I'd have to be some distance away from it to get a meaningful alignment. Anyway, I plastic tie wrapped a piece of wood to the copper pipe so that I could hold onto the wood instead of the copper (and remove myself from the circuit). My meter's plus lead was alligator clipped to the 1/2" copper pipe, and the negative lead was alligator clipped to the red/green pair of my phone line of which the other end was terminated on the wire cage.
I initially dowsed the area and found a couple of prospects and started probing around there with the pipe. I found that I only had to touch the pipe on the ground to get a reading. I was getting .4 something DC all around my little 'hot spot'. I got one reading at .7, and my alligator clip fell off the pipe right after, which made me move the pipe and I lost the spot. Ha ha!!
I went back to the south side and the initial spot I dowsed is actually part of a line going towards the house. This line was the one I tried digging up before, but nothing was there. Touch probing this line gives .4 something DC and if I touch probe outside of that line, it drops off.
(start digress)
A few years back I worked for a water department in their electronics shop (I have a 2 year degree in electronics). We took care of the telemetry, control and monitoring equipment. One of our tools was a pair of headphones. At the time, the telemetry equipment worked over the phone lines and a typical signal would be a carrier of say 1k hz, then a mark/space (ie +25 hz/ -25 hz) about that carrier would send the data. We often listened to the signals with our headphones. On occasion, when the telemetry was hosed, we'd hear a real low frequency hum and know that the line had a ground on it, so we'd have to call the phone company and the special circuit guys would come out and clear it up.
(/end digress)
After reading some more of this thread (I intend to finish it and am on page 23 now :) ), I'm wondering if headphones would be the best way to find the hot spots. I read Stubblefield spent a lot of time in finding his hot spots. If I believe Stubblefield figured it out, I guess you will always get something putting your electrodes in willy nilly, but it's all about finding the hot spots to get some meaningful current.
I'm going to see if I can't do better than having my copper pipe on a stick to find the place to work from. I saw a picture of Stubblefield standing with an oddly shaped 'cane' and didn't know if it was a detector of some kind or part of his phone system.
I wonder how he found his hot spots is the whole idea here.
@ Freezer:
Nice work there. We could run that with 4 of the smaller sized coils in series I believe. Can't wait to see what happens on the secondary then.
@Epiphany:
According to what I have seen in my multiple electrode experiments, the only "hot spot" you need is to have the north south alignment with the positive material to the north, and the angle of the bottom of the implanted electrodes to match the magnetic dip angle for your area. This gave me the best results. I do not believe Nathan went around looking for spots better than others. I only read that in one small writing and I am dubious as to the information's accuracy. Of all of the many other documents I have read, this is not mentioned at all. It does not mean it is not true of course, but I think it is unlikely. I can get over 2 volts dc using the above mentioned process using just 2 electrodes. All experimentation is good however and I am fascinated by your dowsing techniques. I would love to attempt that sometime.
Bill
Bill,
Has someone tried to put some of these coils in series yet?
jeanna
Quote from: jeanna on March 06, 2008, 11:51:40 AM
I think stronger is possible. I am going this less modern way in a personal effort to observe things that NS might have observed. In this way, I am hoping to get some of the same insights, which I believe have been lost.
I am not really sure that more than 2 winds doesn't increase the voltage. It didn't on the 2 I tried the other day. Maybe thicker wire will do it maybe a longer or larger diameter coil will do it.
I have a little motor which will switch direction if I switch the polarity of the battery leads, so, I am quite sure running an AC device (if that is what you meant) is possible.
Thanks Jeanna
I remember reading somewhere that for this kind of coil bigger wire is better.
I was thinking of 1/4 " copper ground wire . and maybe a dozen or so strands of that iron wire used for tying rebar (twisted into a cable )
Another idea using that iron wire.
I wonder what would be different if a toroid was made from a pound or 2 of that iron wire and used as the core .
I have another project to work on first ...........but in time I hope to do some expermenting with some of the ideas on this thread .
gary
@ Jeanna:
You mean besides Nathan Stubblefield? (Grin) Yes, I have and they add up volts in series and mA in parallel. Tests not done in the ground but wet, as the other tests have been done thus far. Since these are in effect, "self-contained" I don't anticipate any shorting when wiring in series as we saw with the multiple electrodes. I just have not tested mine in the ground as I am waiting for some money to get some secondary winding wire, otherwise I would have to dig back up and clean it before winding the secondary and I think that might be a mess. I believe that NS used these in both parallel and series. I am not sure where I read that exactly. Good luck with your latest efforts over there.
Bill
Hi Everyone,
I did a little more testing today .
My test instruments were 2 compasses, one with 60 wraps of mag wire around it which makes it a galvanometer. The plain compass is a stand alone and it gets effected by the magnetic field of a coil in its vicinity.
So One I call a galvanometer, the other I call a compass. Today's results are mostly with the compass. (I only used the galvanometer when I used the secondary)
I tested 3 coils by themselves and also with a secondary which I wrapped around a nylon tube that can slip over the primary.
I have 3 cells that are similar in components. They all have a 1/4 inch x 4 inch long carriage bolt. and a 1 inch washer at the top covered with tape and a drinking straw over the shaft to insulate the wires from touching the bolt. The copper wire is phone wire which is 24 gauge.
#1) is wound the way Don Adsitt describes winding a coil. I wound 60 turns just copper wire going clockwise looking from the top. At the the bottom, I brought the wire straight up to the top and wound 60 more turns in the same clockwise direction. It has 6 layers. I called the outside wire the #5 wire.
#2) is also just copper wire but it is wound down clockwise then at the bottom it continues up again then down etc. It has 6 layers of 60 winds. I called the outside wire here #5 also.
#3 Is bimetal bifilar as we have been making them for this NS battery EXCEPT the copper wire is this phone wire which is plastic coated. Both wires, the Cu and the Fe are the same gauge 24 gauge. The outside wires, of course, are called 5 for the Cu and 6 for the Fe.
The battery is 2 AAA NiMH batteries at about 2.5volts
The experiments:
I placed the head of the bolt with the terminal wires to my left.
I placed the compass 12 inches away to start. This is well away from any influence by this small coil.
I charged the wires with my battery. I moved the compass to where it fully responded, which in most cases was a full 180 degrees shift.. I measured the distance to the compass. I also found a place where the compass pointed 90 degrees. This is still under some influence but not over or under. I think it is a good spot to use for measurements in the future.
(Now remember I wound all these the same direction from the top)
#1) (conventionally wound)
With + on5 the N of the compass points N
With - on 5 the N of the compass points S (they are all like this)
The needle swings COUNTERCLOCKWISE. It returns back to N as soon as the battery leads are off the coil wires for a few times. After a few hits with the battery, the polarity is established, and the
compass stays fully reversed at 4 1/2 inches distance from the coil.
At 5 3/8 inches the S of the compass points 90 degrees.
#2) (all copper but wound down then up)
With + on5 the N of the compass points N
With - on 5 the N of the compass points S then backs off to 150 degrees and holds there.
It swings clockwise ?? ??
At 7 1/2 inches the needle goes S but also turns back when battery leads come off.
At 3 1/2 " the N stays at 90 degrees.
At 2 1/2 " the N stays S but at 150 degrees. It never really stays at 180 degrees.
#3) Bimetal, bifilar
With + on Cu5 the N of the compass points N
With - on Cu5 the N of the compass points S
It gets there Counterclockwise.
At 6 1/2 " the needle returns to N when the battery leads come off the wires.
At 5 3/4 " the N is at 90 degrees.
At 5 1/2 " the N stays at S a full 180 degrees.
I hit the Fe leads and got the reversal of the N to go back to N. If I switched hands the N would switch S again then N again for a while, then it stopped switching. Where it had responded a lot in the beginning, it stopped responding at all.
This is what I am not sure of. I recharged my batteries to be sure, but they were really OK. I think the iron just maintains the magnetism from these few hits. I am not even able to get the coil to return to its normal uncharged state by reversal as I can with both the other coils.
--
Next, I connected 5,6 . I pulsed the battery leads on terminals 10. I first put the secondary around the primary and I found that I could see a small pulse on the galvanometer attached to the secondary's leads. The needle deflected a little then went back so it was a pulse kind of response to the pulse on the terminals 10.
I did this kind of thing with the secondary over the first 2 coils, also.
What I saw makes sense but after a while the action stopped. I saw the galvanometer turn first one way then the other. It did it less and less strongly until it finally stopped doing this at all.
I want to repeat the tests but I don't know if this will ever show up again. For a while I could reverse my hands when the action seemed to slow down on its own, but after 5 or 8 times even that stopped working. There also seemed to be a great deal of hesitation then the compass of the galvanometer would let go and swing.
I am unable to repeat this. Whether it is because it was some strange thing I was doing or the coils themselves, I do not know. If someone else sees this AC type swing and then it stops then I will know it is real.
OK
Thats it for now.
jeanna
Quote from: Pirate88179 on March 06, 2008, 08:07:11 PM
@ Jeanna:
You mean besides Nathan Stubblefield? (Grin) Yes, I have and they add up volts in series and mA in parallel.
Bill
Cool, I missed that you even had multiple coils!
thanks,
jeanna
@Jeanna
"Next, I connected 5,6 as I think Joe did . I pulsed the battery leads on terminals 10. I first put the secondary around the primary and I found that I could see a small pulse on the galvanometer attached to the secondary leads. The needle deflected a little then went back so it was a pulse kind of response to the pulse on the terminals 10."
I did not do this and it is not described that way in the patent be careful not to mislead people. terminals ten are left open with nothing done to them to preserve the character of the electrodes terminals 5 and 6 are where the make and break happen but its just the action of them making and breaking connection.
When that action happens .. the speed it happens or you preform the make and break act will determine the secondary's freq. The load or thing you want to power with ac is connected to the secondary coil the outermost wind .. This is the "earth battery" were working on.
***If you short the wires 5 and 6 permanently of the primary bi metal couple it becomes a self sustaining electromagnet!!!!*** PLEASE REMEMBER THIS*****This is not the current project were going towards in this thread Let me be clear..
All efforts dealing with the stubblefield coil should be focused on the self generating induction coil. it shows the most promise and chance of usable device. The electromagnet/basestation transmitter model i feel should be dealt with later or in a sister thread to this one but we should not focus new folks on this now lets stick to the power and then work on the communication end.
Thanks
Joe
Yikes! for 2 hours I have been re-reading this thread from 2 days before I left to catch the parts about the series connections I missed!
I am sorry, Joe, I don't mean to be off topic.
I will try to explain answers for you just a little.
Quotebut its just the action of them making and breaking connection.
I was trying to make a 'make and break' with a known voltage to see the effects. I only have 2 hands so I pulsed the battery terminals as the make and break and once I connected 5,6 to watch where the pulse went, with an eye to see what the make and break is directed toward.
And, as you no doubt saw, I did get a nice AC effect in the galvanometer which is attached to the secondary and which went backwards and forwards. (I'm just disappointed that it slowed down after a while.)
QuoteThe load or thing you want to power with ac is connected to the secondary coil the outermost wind .. This is the "earth battery" were working on.
Yup, that is why I had the galvanometer on the secondary - to see what is expected in the AC for the load.
Quote
***If you short the wires 5 and 6 permanently of the primary bi metal couple it becomes a self sustaining electromagnet!!!!*** PLEASE REMEMBER THIS*****This is not the current project were going towards in this thread Let me be clear..
All efforts dealing with the stubblefield coil should be focused on the self generating induction coil. it shows the most promise and chance of usable device.
Umm so a self sustaining electromagnet and a self generating induction coil are 2 very different things? I thought an induction coil was an electromagnet?? I am sorry for being so confused.
Quote
The electromagnet/basestation transmitter model i feel should be dealt with later
I have been thinking I was working on a battery all this time. I had no Idea I was working on a transmitter station! How could I have missed that? I don't even know how a transmitter station works!
My apologies,
jeanna
@jeanna
How your pulsing the circuit is incorrect you dont want the ends of 5 and 6 connected permanently thats where the relay would break the connection or the brushes would be attached for a rotary spark gap.
Yes those are two very different things
The Self Sustaining electromagnet has a microphone or telegraphic relay hooked up to its secondary you speak into that to transmit.
THe Self Generating Induction coil provides power from its secondary in the form of ac current.
The wires ends one steel/iron one copper #10 are just left free in the air for testing or in the dirt in the earth if outside no electrical connection
ends 5 and 6 are where the make and break occurs ****the whole purpose of the primary is so these two wires create their own voltage to send em pulses into the secondary. No separate voltage source eg batteries is needed nor should be used in the working primary circuit, it changes the character of it!!!!!!!.
Hope this makes things more clear.
The power is already in the wires of the primary as soon as its wet then the terminals 5 and 6 are switched on and off rapidly the make and break, whether using a self powered relay or rotary spark gap(completely passive, just conductive strips on disk).
The ac is then developed in the secondary in relation to the speed of the primary switching :) then we use the power :)
Localjoe, "This is the "earth battery" were working on" "This is not the current project were going towards in this thread Let me be clear.."
Let me be clear! Everything jeanna has done and said in this thread has been something to do with earth battery experiments. She has brought a lot to this thread with her testing and involvement.
There are some things you need to under stand about the earth and the energy it produces. First of all the earths energy is nothing more then vibrations weather they be under the earths surface or above as long as they are in the earths atmosphere,
With that said and due to the testing she just posted about, I have to say her post did have a bearing on this thread and I for one feel this was a good thread to post her findings in.
This thread is using both the energy above and below ground, other wise there wouldn't be any probes sticking out of the ground and the probes would be completely underground. You sir need to open your mind a bit and understand that what happens above or below ground has everything to do with each other. You have to have one vibration coming from under and one coming from above and if you don?t focus on both or at least keep a open mind about how both interact with each other, you will get nowhere.
jeanna, keep up the good work because I for one feel your findings are valid and trustworthy and all pertain to this thread as well as some others.
All right Joe,
Just please have patience with this biologist. You never know... ;D
I am probably going to be some confused about the difference for a while, but worry not, I will keep at it.
My confusion is in the part of the electromagnet that needs to have electricity to keep it going - and this is the very biggest thing we have been dealing with all along. - getting enough voltage and amperage to keep the thing going.
the relay is cool and I am looking forward to learning about that. But that is a very externally applied item and not a self sustaining thing at all.
Do you see my confusion here?
I am not trying to destroy your thread or cause extra confusion for others. I am apparently confused myself. I very much enjoy this topic and the people who work together on it.
jeanna
PS thank you nightlife for your kind words.
Everyone,
As I was just re-reading this thread looking for series examples, I came across someone saying that the terminal wires should be hanging down.
Is everyone in agreement?
Also, I did a bunch of different types of winds in today's tests.
I am wondering if there is a consensus about how to do the winding? And did my findings go along with anyone else's experiments about which way to wind this thing?
thank you
jeanna
@ Jeanna:
Maybe I can help you. I don't think you are as confused as you think. As Joe said, the self-inducting coil with the primary and secondary is the earth battery. The electromagnetic coil (ie door bell buzzer) I think you are talking about is for the make/break device which I don't think we have yet determined the best way to go as of yet. Freezer has a design, Hans as well, I have a few ideas and so does Joe. They all may be a little different but will accomplish the same thing. So, the earth battery (NS style) has none of the cu and fe wires tied together. Only 2 of them are involved in either side of the make/break device whatever that ends up being.
Now, you mentioned about where the power is coming from to operate the coil? (I am assuming you mean the coil such as Hans proposed for the make/break device, or Freezer's 555 ic design) I hope that the power can come from the earth battery "system" itself. By system, I am imagining an induction coil with primary only which will put out enough dc to operate the most efficient make/break device we can come up with. Then, another induction coil with the secondary added can use the make/break device to generate ac at various freqs. In the meantime, I am guessing that some are using other power sources to experiment with their own make/break devices which, when perfected, can then be possibly powered by the earth itself as well.
I hope I am explaining this ok here. One point I left out. As Joe said, you do not hook up a battery or other power device to the induction coil. It will power itself. (Self-inducting) The external battery would only be used for experimenting with, say Joe's design of a very small hobby motor spinning a disc with make/break conducting paths picked up by stranded wire brushes of some sort. I believe Freezer said his design, at this time, requires about 4 vdc. So he powers that with a battery or other power supply for experiments with the secondary and ac readings. The battery (dry cell, 9 volt, etc) or other external power supply will (I hope) not be needed down the road.
If anyone here does not agree with my understanding, feel free to jump in here. Jeanna, if I have confused you more, let me know and I will try to correct that. Feel free to im me if you want with any additional questions.
Bill
@ Jeanna:
As far as the terminal wires go, my understanding is this: In my first wound coil (1 layer) I started at the top and wound down leaving me with two terminals (1 ea cu and fe) at each end. I decide this was not going to be very handy to place in the ground this way. so, the next coil I started at the top, wound down and back up (2 layers) so on that one I have 4 terminals at the top (2 ea cu and fe) Joe can correct me on this but I don't think it matters as long as they do not touch each other when planted in the ground. I just found it easier to have them end up all back at the same place. So as long as I have an even number of layers, I can have all my terminals at the top end.
Bill
Thank you Bill,
See, I am a scientist by nature. I question everything and when I am unsure I devise an experiment to satisfy my curiosity.
This is the impulse for yesterday's and today's experiments. I think I stated it a little at the time, and I don't need to repeat it now, probably. Some of my curiosity has to do with the mind of the inventor of this device we are dealing with - not in a historical aspect, but as a way to get into the invention and Really understand it.
As folks have been experimenting here they have made assumptions about what will be a good substitute for the materials and methods of the inventor. I have too, but I have made a strong effort NOT to do that. I have checked my assumptions many times to make sure I am not adding one that could make an unnecessary failure. For instance, silk has always been a very expensive and was a very hard to get fabric. The fact that it was used as Hans said, rather than the ubiquitous and inexpensive cotton says to me that it was for a good reason. I don't know what, but silk has properties in its chemistry and structure that make it quite different from cotton. It is for this reason that I made 3 coils using silk. There are other things too, but that is a good enough example because I made a joke of it earlier.
As I see it the small voltage produced by the galvanic action in the moist combinations of the materials of this coil is the source of the electricity for the electromagnet. I have been waiting to see what this make and break device will be. I have no ideas of my own. (unusual) but I have no experience with anything like that so I will wait to see what others do.
Putting 5 and 6 together was only one of about 25 configurations I tried today. Since it produced some kind of effect, I reported it. I am actually not confused about how that is not supposed to be shorted. NS says very clearly that 5,6 is a place for a device that would use the galvanic charge being produced by the coil. (I think of it as a load - but not the real load which is the AC load).
The question I had about the terminals being upside down came from maybe Bruce or Freezer's report on around page 95. I had never noticed it before but also I hadn't heard other comments about it so I asked.
Thank you, Bill, Your comments are always kind and often quite helpful. I appreciate them.
jeanna
@jeanna
I never try to be rude if it comes off that way just sure in my factual statements
In the patent the load is said to be hooked to the secondary, the voltage and current produced on the primary could be used to power something simple but thats nothing new and not the good part of the invention... the highest results should be secured in the primary leads so when shorted intermittently they have ample punch to stimulate the secondary... Where the actual load is hooked..
EARTH BATTERY = SELF GENERATING INDUCTION COIL
BASESTATION TRANSMITTER = SELF SUSTAINING ELECTROMAGNET
@nightlife.. go read what i wrote again for the last time... i described 2 devices there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! shoot yourself before contradicting me again.
Anything that causes that many exclamation marks is the wrong place for me. Is there a way that I can be removed form or quit this group? Or do I just stay away?
Sid
@Sid
Night life has had prior incidents in this thread. His outbursts are usually so far in left field it leaves people lost. As well he knows better than to start an argument here. I'm more than willing to repeat myself till im blue in the face for folks like Jeanna or bill or hans , freezer, folks that have been helping since the beginning and want to learn . Even yourself i have had nothing but good things to say! but nightlife has been warned before about cluttering this thread. If he had taken the time to read the statement he might recant his comments. If you feel you need to leave please feel free to do so. Sorry if you feel offended. But where im from they tell folks to grow some hair and shake it off. Best i can tell ya
Thanks again
Joe
Quote from: Localjoe on March 07, 2008, 10:36:19 AM
In the patent the load is said to be hooked to the secondary, the voltage and current produced on the primary could be used to power something simple but thats nothing new and not the good part of the invention... the highest results should be secured in the primary leads so when shorted intermittently they have ample punch to stimulate the secondary... Where the actual load is hooked..
EARTH BATTERY = SELF GENERATING INDUCTION COIL
BASESTATION TRANSMITTER = SELF SUSTAINING ELECTROMAGNET
OK,
In the patent terminals 10 of the copper and iron wires 5&6 are left "disconnected so as to preserve the character of the wire as the electrodes of the voltaic couple". (lines 17-20)
So, that means the 10's are not to be connected, but the patent goes on to say, "but the other or remaining terminals of the wires [5&6] are brought in contact through the interposition of any electrical instrument or device with which they may be connected to cause the electrical currents generated in the coil-body 4 to flow through such instrument or device.
So, that means to me that the wire terminals 5,6 are connected to a load, because what else is an electrical instrument...that has electrical currents ... flowing through the device?
"Electrical currents generated in the coil-body 4" means that coil-body 4 is the source of the power that flows through the [load] instrument or device.
And, yes, it is not the big output of this device. I assume that would be the AC generated in/by the secondary.
NS:
QuoteSo that the battery may be used as a self generating electromagnet... to secure this result is simply required connecting the terminals 5,6 TOGETHER after wetting...
coil-body 4 drives the whole thing.
Now, I thought you saw the amps in the secondary when you briefly connected 5,6 together. Is that not right? Is this not why you are creating a pulser? to pulse the current at 5,6 in order to produce the payload at terminals 16?
That means that in a moist coilbody4 (or in my case yesterday some battery voltage entering at 10 and being the current in the coil-body 4) while 5,6 are connected should produce sizable, or useful amperage in AC form at the terminals 16 of the secondary. no?
In fact it did make a small deflection on the galvanometer. I don't think I have enough wraps on my secondary. I will re-do my secondary asap. to see this.
I have more tests to do around the changing polarity of the secondary. I saw it change back and forth, without any change of my input. I need to clear the circuit of the elements that might confound the answer, and I need to think about it for a while.
I apologise again if I am wasting YOUR time with my experiments. I am not wasting MY time. I need to know the answers to the questions I am asking.
jeanna
(I love the way NS writes - so eloquent!)
Localjoe, "@nightlife.. go read what I wrote again for the last time..."
I did and it is very rude and you should apologize for treating her the way you did.
"I described 2 devices there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! shoot yourself before contradicting me again."
I don't care what you described, you were rude and it was uncalled for.
"His outbursts are usually so far in left field it leaves people lost."
I am sorry for that and maybe some people will get what I have been trying to say.
" As well he knows better than to start an argument here."
Are you serious? Careful there tough guy.
"nightlife has been warned before about cluttering this thread."
By who? you? LOL Now I am getting pissed. I never cluttered this thread and this thread is part of a public forum that I just happen to be a member of. I have contributed to this thread as well as others. You may not agree with what I have said but none the less I still have tried and to me that a contribution.
"If he had taken the time to read the statement he might recant his comments."
I did and I will not take them back. You sir need to stop biting peoples heads off and realize that this is a public forum and you cant say what can and can not be said in any thread. Open your mind a bit and stop being so rude. You are more then welcome to sit down with me over a cup of coffee anytime you want to.
I still read postings here and I have been to tied up with other experiments and threads to get involved but I like the contributions members have made to this thread and jeanna is one of them and for me to read a post with you being rude to her just pisses me off. I will stand up for those that I feel is in the right and she is and you again are not. You do what you do and let them do what they do and please don't ever try and stop them from telling the rest of us results from testing they have done. It may not mean much to you but it may to others.
@jeanna
yes he is very elequoent and this is my veiw on this quote
"but the other or remaining terminals of the wires are brought in contact through the interposition of any electrical instrument or device with which they may be connected to cause the electric currents generated in the coil-body 4 to flow through such instrument or device" pg.2 lines 20-25
definition of Interpose
-1. To come between things; assume an intervening position. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/interposition (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/interposition)
So now examine it in this sense
The remaining terminals of wires 5 and 6 are brought in contact through an electrical device which they are connected to and this device " assumes an intervening position" between the two wires yet allows the current to pass.
Now put that together with .
"The magnetic field produced by the current traversing the coil-body 4 induces a secondary current in the solenoid or secondary coil 12, when the ordinary make and break of the primary current produced within the coil 4 is made between the terminals of said coil 4. It will therefore be seen that the construction of the battery illustrated in Fig. 4 is practically a self-generating induction-coil"
What my logic was leading me to is this
The magnetic feild in the secondary is produced by the ordianary make and break of the primary wires 5 and 6 therefore the design shown in all the descriptions is practially a self generating induction coil. We know the practically know its a device that preforms the make and break of the primary current.
Now this below would seem to be a description of a device which has the ability to make and break the connection between wires 5 and 6 ;D
"The remaining terminals of wires 5 and 6 are brought in contact through an electrical device which they are connected to and this device " assumes an intervening position" between the two wires yet allows the current to pass."
I could be wrong but i stick by this because its my most logical intreptation.
Tell me what you think
Joe
@ Joe
I'm not offended, but I am put off by the fact that you seem to think that you know it all and anybody who thinks otherwise is wrong. If you think that I need to grow some hair then I'll post a pic of myself and you'll see that I have more than enough. I'm also put off by the fact that you threatened another member of this forum with a bot attack if he didn't back off of his position. If I remember right it was all about him thinking that frequency's should be involved in out experiments. Well guess what when, and if ,the earth battery, reaches the point where power is to be produced, you will find that frequency's is what AC is all about, and is also what our fellow member is talking about the 555 time circuit for. If you will reread my past posts you'll also see that I talked about the same sort of setup. And since you know it all anyway why don't you just build the perfect earth battery and save us all the trouble of trying for ourselves?
Consider me gone.
Sid
@Nightlife
Jeanna is a big girl and im sure she knows how i feel about her and contributions in this fourm.
As for you have fun vibrating. I dont know what else to really say to you. People can tell others there wrong or they think things should be done another way if they have a reason behind it or a working applyible theory there sharing and making a dicussion about yet you have brought neither here. They dont hesitate to tell me no joe i dont think thats right and i take it instride to see what i have missed or see their point of view . Whats a good discussion without a little debate. Hell it even drives some further into research to find answers.
You think about it buddy.. And if your serious about the coffee i prefer arabian mocha sanani from starbucks its a rich extrabold with great flavor. Make sure to get whole bean as well so we can have it fresh.
Many Thanks
Joe
Quote from: sid10 on March 07, 2008, 06:42:21 PM
@ Joe
I'm not offended, but I am put off by the fact that you seem to think that you know it all and anybody who thinks otherwise is wrong. If you think that I need to grow some hair then I'll post a pic of myself and you'll see that I have more than enough. I'm also put off by the fact that you threatened another member of this forum with a bot attack if he didn't back off of his position. If I remember right it was all about him thinking that frequency's should be involved in out experiments. Well guess what when, and if ,the earth battery, reaches the point where power is to be produced, you will find that frequency's is what AC is all about, and is also what our fellow member is talking about the 555 time circuit for. If you will reread my past posts you'll also see that I talked about the same sort of setup. And since you know it all anyway why don't you just build the perfect earth battery and save us all the trouble of trying for ourselves?
Consider me gone.
Sid
This is funny... Here let me be more clear..... The secondary of the earth battery will produce ac at a FREQUENCY determined by the speed of the make and break in the primary circuit..
Where do you get Frequency's from ive never heard of an ac circuit running at 110 hertz and 220 hertz at the SAME TIME this is what night lifes claim is similar to he thinks all these "frequency's" are being attracted by the earth battery or something close. I could understand if he said when firing the primary circuit at a given speed the secondary would produce this many volts at XXX frequency but the pluarl he keeps using leads me to believe he doesent have a base understading of electronics just a small one im not right all the time and barley know much EE myself but i dont make claims havent backed up or tested ect.. maybe i just didnt understand him but i do remember some wild ones.
As far as the bot attack.. That was the guy thats trying to sweep up new energy technologies/clean ones and patent them under some large company.. you know how that one goes im very defensive of jerks like that.. My intent for this exp was for folks to share things freely and never make money off of it unless for the intent to produce more and give them away to folks who cant afford electric. If i see peopel coming here trying to say hey lets slap a corporate sticker on this im going to be angered. Those of us that use the internet know there are easier ways to disseminate info when the time is right therefore we can give it away freely . Thats why i threatend a bot attack.
Take care
Joe
Localjoe, please refer to me as nightlife and Starbucks is fine with me.
As for vibrations, you really should be opening your mind a bit to them because frequencies are based on vibrations and if are trying attract energy, you better find out what it really is so you can properly work towards trying to attract it.
Earth battery's are based on vibrations beneath the earths surface. Tree roots put off vibrations as do all living and moving things. Vibrations are what energy is.
I have already proved that to myself and I will be posting some results, on the subject, in another thread soon.
Open your mind and don?t believe everything you have been taught. Common sense is the key to reality.
@Nightlife
Fair enough but take this into account. Some forms of other earth batteries are said to do what your talking about our inital expermients support that theory to an extent. But
The NS earth battery doesent use that same concept to derive its power. The vibration in this battery is that of the magnetic feilds produced from the primary make and break withen itself. This yeilds ac at a freq related to the speed of the primary interposition. The other batteries have been speculated to be rf sensitive so now i get what you were saying about collecting frequency's ( That would be a good idea for a modified crystal radio reciever that provided small power output as well as radio) we were talking apples and oranges. Im sorry, Thanks for being more descriptive.
Joe
Localjoe, magnetic fields? Those too are vibrations but we don?t have the technology to properly detect them. So you see, even your NS earth battery has something to do with vibrations. You all are experimenting with vibrations that we can not detect just like DC current, it is said to be a flat wave but it really isn't. We just don't have the technology to detect it's vibrancy. If it moves, it has a vibration, if it's alive, it has a vibration, if it's heard, it has a vibration, if it's smelt, it has a vibration.
We are finding that we can couple magnetic vibrations with coils and man made vibrations and get more out then put in.
I do appreciate your different tone in your reply and I don?t want to have any hard feelings between us or anyone else for that matter. The world is full of hate and sorrow and I would like this to be a place to get away from all that so we can focus on what we are all here for.
I just don?t like seeing people get hurt. Good luck to you and I am done with my 2 cents. Can I get my change back? LOL
I got a question. Can you make an electromagnet with a graphite core? That is, if I wound a piece of graphite in copper and applied current, would I have an electromagnet?
or does graphite lend itself to these properties? What about Zinc?
Thanks
David
Quote from: MrSpates on March 07, 2008, 11:47:37 PM
David,
The quick answer is probably. You don't need the iron core at all. It just makes the magnet effect much stronger. So, since you can have air as the core, you probably can have carbon or zinc as the core.
The part to keep in mind, however, is that NS was doing something very special and we aren't too sure EXACTLY what it was. Many of us have tried things that are not exactly defined in the patent.
My only thought is if you do vary what you make from what the patent defines, that you don't forget that you did something different.
Go for it.
I used a drinking straw to make a sleeve that easily slips off the 1/4 inch carriage bolt core. (but that is really too thin for the diameter.) There is a thing in the electric home department of Home Depot or such that is a sleeve replacement for a candelabra. I got one that is 1 1/4 inches diameter. So, if you can find a non conducting sleeve like that you can easily add or change the core. NS recommends a construction like that anyway. It is a good plan.
Carry on, man. And have fun. This is a total gas.
jeanna
MrSpates:
I was curious about the same thing with carbon, as in my carbon rods. I think an electromagnet requires iron but, I was thinking about our induction coils. Would this also require iron? Sorry to not be able to answer your question but I have similar ones.
Bill
Joe,
I have been trying to think of how to answer your request to tell you what I think.
What I don't get is how we can get into such trouble understanding what we are saying. After 'sleeping on it', I still only see one difference.
I think you make a separation that I do not make.
But first I want to be sure about the following:
Because the 5,6 junction is the place of interposition, I see that as the place to put a motor or the spark gap, relay etc. I think that is where you are planning to interpose it.?? yes?
OK now for my answer.
As I posted last night to Mr Spates, electricity running down a wire creates a magnetic field. You can not stop it. Magnetism is intimately connected with electricity. What you do with it may make the difference in what you call it.
So, if you have a coil and run e- down it and use the magnetism to pick up paper clips or cars, you call it a magnet. Because it stops when you stop the e- you call it an electromagnet.
Now take that same coil and at one end of the wire place a nail a wee bit away so that when the e- goes down the wire it jumps across to that nail you get a spark and the coil is now called a choke, I think. I don't know if an induction coil is also called a choke.
Now, take the same coil and run e- down it but this time place it pretty near another coil but do not let them touch each other. The e- will produce magnetism in the coil as before. But NOW, the magnetism that the first coil produces, induces e- in the second coil. Now this first coil is called an induction coil.
One coil 3 uses 3 different names.
All these coils induce a magnetic field around them no matter what they are called. So, I consider all of them to be what they are according to their use.
I think this is the basis of the trouble in our communications.
I think of them all as a variant of the same thing according to their use and you have separate names for them and the names define their use.
This is probably because I was never forced to learn the names in a classroom.
Does this sound right to you?
I would like to not have to go through a repeat of the other night. I think we have gone over this a couple or 3 times before and that is enough. So, does this sound right to you?
thank you,
jeanna
To answer my own question, I took a graphite rod this morning and wound it with about 8 layers of 30 awg. and applied 14v alternating current. The graphite rod did not magnetize at all, all it did was get real hot. Seems to me that the only kinds of materials that will magnetize are the ones that attract to a magnet like iron and steel(ferrous). Materials like Copper, Aluminum, Graphite, Zinc,etc while great electrical conductors will not magnetize as they are nonferrous, oh well, ya learn something every day.
G'Day all,
@MrSpates: Did the coil get hot before the graphite rod got hot? And what was the frequency of your AC voltage?
@jeanna: I think you summed it pretty well, the type of use of a coil definately has a bearing on what it is ultimately called.
Cheers
Ian
@jeanna
"But first I want to be sure about the following:
Because the 5,6 junction is the place of interposition, I see that as the place to put a motor or the spark gap, relay etc. I think that is where you are planning to interpose it.?? yes?
YES exactly, i plan to run a relay from the existing power in the two wires while there moist, passive is the key, as well if i used the rotary gap that would have to be a seperate power source so it was not in the primary circuit just a disk wtih insulation strips for on off conductive path.
Biggest thing to grasp here is were not running e- electrons/power into our setups. we want to use the exisiting power in the primary from the voltaic action of the water. So in essence when the wires are on the off cycle of the timing there is no connection and they just sit when on the on cycle the disk provides a conductive path from wire 5 to wire 6 and then breaks that connection. So i guess you could say its a temporary electromagnet because of the tempory interposition imposed by the device conencted to terminals 5 and 6. The SECONDARY is the INDUCTION coil in its classic form.
When i hear those words i think this
Electromagnet- coil with iron core
Choke- Coils ususally wound on a ferrite toroid to filter rf can be built other ways tho.
Induction Coil- Air core'd coil possibly bifilar depending on self inductance attributes desired
If you have time build yourself a mini coil gun and some of these properties will be easier to see right on the table. Take apart the cheapest kodac fun flash you can find solder a switch on the - leg of the cap after the switch is your coil that is the barrel for the gun and the other end of that wire goes to the + lead on the cap. Charge the camera like normal when the flash light is on for ready you can fire the coil gun with the switch make sure its at least rated for 120v. This is where i had my first experience building coils and testing inductance properties and such as well it cost me 5 dollars for the camera guts of 5 boards, and 3 bucks for the radioshack mag wire. the 3 pack use the red sutff. I wound my coil on a pen tube from abic and locked that pen tube in the chuck of my skrewdriver for easy winding. ;D Joe
Quote from: Localjoe on March 08, 2008, 02:16:25 PM
Biggest thing to grasp here is were not running e- electrons/power into our setups.
Of course, I do know that.
I am not sure however the juice will stop when the gap is open.
My tests are making me think otherwise. If anyone is looking for a good project this weekend, it might be time to see if you can make the charge stop once the battery is wet.
When i hear those words i think this
Electromagnet- coil with iron core
Choke- Coils ususally wound on a ferrite toroid to filter rf can be built other ways tho.
Induction Coil- Air core'd coil possibly bifilar depending on self inductance attributes desired
Good, now we won't bark at each other. I may still use the words my way and I will keep a copy of this for cross reference :D
Joe
I have been thinking of making a coil gun. Thanks for the instrux.
jeanna
@jeanna
I agree that the magnetic pulse may not compleetly stop when the terminals are disconnected- I Think of pulsing the secondary as pushing a swing same push higher result each time. So the variables to work with are
the intensity of the repeated push "power in the primary"
the time between pushes - how quickly the gap fires makes and breaks the connection
Now eventually if the person on the swing was light enough and the person pushing was doing so syncronosly the swing would start going in a 360 degree circle not just swinging back and forth anymore. The same push is accelerating the "particle " in a circle now not just a swing up and down. Now think of inerta when an object/particle moves in a circle ever increasing in speed/voltage... and retaininig a little spin until the next push because of centripical force. this applies to our exp. :)
@MrSpates: Did the coil get hot before the graphite rod got hot? And what was the frequency of your AC voltage?
I don't know, they both got hot all I know is I unplugged it when the electric tape holding the wire ends on the rod started to melt.I also built one with an iron core and while it worked fine as a magnet, it too got hot. I don't know enough to test frequency on AC. i.e I don't have an oscilloscope. I was using power from an old old toy train transformer which runs from about 5.6vac to 15.9vac.
Hi all,
Last week I had the suggestion to make a regular induction type coil to compare with the NS type things I was testing. I did. I didn't get much for results which made me realize my secondary needs more wire etc.
But the other thing about it is that with only copper wire, I couldn't do some of the more bizarre tests that I had done with my bimetal bifilar coils.
So, in the last couple of days I took apart that control and made another control, but this time a bimetal bifilar. This has the wires wound clockwise down to the bottom then straight back up as is conventionally done with electromagnets with multiple layers. I used the same amount of copper wire and ran it bifilar with an equal amount of iron wire. I was then able to make some tests.
Without going into the detail I will say that this performed about the same as the wound down and back.
Since it has the 4 wires, I was able to do the squeeze test on this also. And it also showed an amplification of voltage.
--------------
I would like anyone else interested to try this squeeze test on your NS coil with and/or without secondary. It is a simple test to do. Here is how:
With the dmm set to mVDC squeeze the black probe with your left hand fingers. and the red probe with your right.
Do it again with moist fingers.
Now clip the dmm probes onto the 5,6 . Clip the red probe on copper and black probe on iron. Squeeze the loose wires the 10's and read the voltage.
Repeat this with fingers moistened.
(I used saliva because it is readily available :D )
I think you will be impressed.
I am asking someone to do this for a repeat of the test.
Is anyone game?
jeanna
@ Jeanna
How much voltage did you get from the squeeze test?
Jeanna
Its a cool effect but on the same token. Take a inch by inch peice of copper sheet and hold a zinc skrew in the other hand while squeezing you'll find upwards of .7 volts or more. ;D Ive wondered for a long time how this plays into ancient Egyptian jewelery. The pharos depicted with crystals and different rare metals ...... See what im getting at. Theres a whole separate leg of science with electricity and crystals that has yet to be endeavored . Maybe fun for after this but cool exp. I guess main thing with the ns battery here is to keep ourselves out of the loop.
Please dont take this as me not thinking your exp was cool because i imagine those elaborate coiled bracelets in the olden days of the dissimilar metals gold and another had another use than style .
If you take me up on the coil gun exp. Remember theres no primary or secondary involved here just a coil on a pen tube one peice of wire. It just let me get equated to where the magnetic pulses were really going when i dumped the cap into the coil. ITs cool because you find out that even though the pulse 's peak is relative to the polarity of the juice your sending through the wires, thats what determines what end the projectile shoots out. Theres still a smaller pulse that comes out the opposite end at the exact same time. As well i took some bismuth and layed slats of it under the end of the barrel just enough to prop it up and it gave me added range and velocity, as well i Plugged my opposite end the end i wasn't shooting out of with bismuth. IT will reflect a magnetic pulse from the weak end And create a greater punch on the shooting end. Kinda like shooting a rock from a sling shot then having a second invisible projectile smack it from behind and accelerate it even faster than normal out of the barrel.
Take care and enjoy
Joe
PS if anyone ever wants to chat on a messenger thing i have skype and i use a windows messenger acct same as msn
It's been hard getting on this site today. I hope all is well again.
I can't copy paste on firefox today! so I am just answering
@Mr Spates
I got around 450mvdc. but see below.
@Joe
So, do you think I am seeing a skin effect of the voltage going from one hand to the other? I would be a resistor in a circuit from left hand to right hand.
It is sort of like the earth battery itself isn't it. There is no contact with the metals but a big ocean of resistance that allows voltage (DC, AC, and some uA) to occur between the probes.
If the metals touch each other I get zero voltage. I suppose that is what it is- the circuit is happening across my skin).
Oh well.
I was hoping we had an amplifier. I guess not.
jeanna
(my arrow keys don't work today either. Is it possible that they made changes that prevent these functions? arrgh!)
@ Jeanna:
I too use firefox and am having no trouble. My arrow keys work and I can copy and paste just fine. Try exiting out of firefox and restarting your computer to reload everything. If that does not work, download and use CCleaner (free) you can find free downloads on a google search. This program cleans up a lot of left over stuff and frees up your system. You may already know this but, in case you didn't I wanted to post it. Good luck.
The OU site has been acting up a bit again today though. I am almost getting used to it.
Bill
Thanks Bill,
I think it is the site. Just now it took 5 -6 tries to make a reply. I switched to the browser I prefer to see, and it i.sn't any better. (but it behaves normally arrow keyswise.)
I just went outside with my meter and my 6 layer bimetal bifilar that I have been using for pure configuration checks. It is made with plastic coated tel. wire instead of cloth coated and moist.
There is no surprise, but if the site allows I will say that with the 10's attached to one magnesium block and copper pipe the terminals 5,6 read 1.14vdc. this is as it sould be. just checking.
I guess I was thinking if there is any real reason to want more than the .7vdc you could get from the galvanic reax of the coil wires themselves, this is a way to do it. This is an idea that came from the squeeze test.
Of course the terminals are not in their "preserved" state as they are being used to connect to other terminals, but they are terminals.
Another question:
I FINALLY got the mag wire I've been waiting for.
Bill,or anyone else,
Is there a consensus about how many turns I should use?
I was planning on using the whole thing (75 ft green RS mag wire, Or should I use the whole red spool-200 ft)
Any advice about this?
Any EXPERIENCE about this?
thank you,
jeanna
@ Jeanna:
I have read, in several places, to use 3,000 turns for the secondary. I think this would depend on a lot of variables but, it is probably safe to say that the more the merrier. Joe can jump in here to see if this is correct or not, but, everything I have read about Tesla coils say, the more windings on the secondary, the higher the output. I don't see why this should be any different. The radio interview with that guy that wanted to charge $100/hour for phone call info on Stubblefield coils said 3,000 turns also. I hope this helps.
Bill
@Bill,
I guess I will use the red since it is longer. It is sooooo thin. 30 gauge slips through the aligator teeth on the clips.
I'm gonna try to make a sleeve out of a bottle to make it closer than the 1 1/4" inch candelabra form I used before. It will have a taped seam, but I guess closer fitting will induce more magnetism.
What did you do for your secondary? (I don't remember many details from the coils people made.)
Lots to do.
Thanks,
jeanna
Jeanna:
I am in a financial situation that, at the moment, will not allow me to purchase any wire or other experimental materials. I have not yet wound or attempted a secondary. But, I will. That is why I have not buried my coil yet because I don't want to have to clean it off and then wrap the secondary. A few more cases have come in and, hopefully, I will be back to experimentation. I can't wait.
Bill
@ All:
I took apart a vibrating toothbrush and salvaged the tiny motor from it. It operates on a AAA battery and seems to run forever. I am going to try to run it from my multiple cells outside and my new NS cell/s. This might be a good candidate for our make/break motor. I will keep all posted on this. I am pretty sure the vibrating razors also use this same motor. It is a tiny motor that has a weight off center to make the vibrations. We could easily remove the weight and use it to pulse our secondaries. If I can run this motor outside, which I should be able to do based on the numbers, I think that would be cool. If it works, I will make another video. Just passing this on.
Bill
Has anyone gotten anything to run off the secondary of this NS coil?
I just wound my secondary with 394 turns. I was planning to match the primary which has 360, but it was almost out so I finished the spool with 394. Also, I used the 1 1/4 in diam plastic tube for a candelabra.
Primary has
360 copper wire winds and
360 iron wire winds
Secondary has
394 winds of 30 gauge copper mag (varnished) wire.
I checked the resistance of the primary
copper is around 1.7 ohms and the
iron about 7.5 ohms.
the resistance of the secondary is around 28 ohms.
My assumption is that if the galvanic action produces a voltage of .7vdc in 5,6 then if I put a known battery voltage across the 10's it might send charge out the 5,6 terminals in a way that is similar.
The battery has 2.65 vdc attached at the 10's
I connected a cap and tiny motor in series to the secondary. nothing moved.
I attached the secondary to the 5,6 terminals just to see what would happen, the voltage showed 1.76vdc and it went down to 17vdc.
The motor started to jit back and forth.
The cap definitely filled up because when I checked later, it was full.
Later, in a sort of make and break I snapped the battery in and out of place. It sometimes turned on the motor. Once the motor was on it went for a while, then the voltage went too low and it stopped.
So, if the motor is on just the secondary, nothing happens. Sometimes a capacitor helps.
I hit the 5,6 together a few times with the motor on the secondary. nothing happened and anyway the amperage read 1.6 uA. - pretty minor.
Its lights out time and I am tired. I will try more tomorrow.
Any ideas?
jeanna
@jeanna
Why would it move? I don't think anyone here is even close to being ready to use any kind of AC off the secondary.I applaud your effort but slow down a bit. To put it in perspective remember two things. Putting power into terminals 10 is not a good idea when using the ns earth battery design.It will do harm to your primary wires if there moist.
If your just doing bench tests tho with normal insulation and no moist i dont see the harm in putting a battery on the primary wires and then pulsing 5 and 6 on and off. Hans showed a similar exp earlier in the thread. :)
In The NS Battery the power is existing in those two wires already once moist. All that is needed is the make and break. Now with our small coils were not going to see sparks but when we eventually build larger ones i imagine seeing something like shorting a battery wire. The speed you make and break the primary wires 5 and 6 will determine the ac freq like standard us grid is ac 60 hz 120 v. Thats 60 make and breaks a second. As well, the voltage and current In the secondary will be induced proportional to the existing power in the primary during each on off cycle.
In contrast dc motors don't run well off of ac and a mechanical switching upwards of at least 5 to 10 hz is needed to show noticeable results on the secondary. -well meter readings at least
Id have to say the main goals right now are
High output on the primary bimetal couple the higher the better current that is the voltage will prob level out.
And an efficent timing/switching mechanism for the terminals 5 and 6
Once we have those completed then we can think about winding a secondary to a certian length(or however you can to start) to be resonatly tuned to the primary circuit(Includes both wires 5 and 6 and the switching mechanism) by measuring the primary bimetal coil's inductance, finding the primary circuits resonate freq while operating and winding the secondary to a quarter wave or half wavelength classic tesla. The reason i want a passive rotary spark gap is because it will allow us to change the ac freq output on the secondary by adjusting its speed. ;D
Joe
@Bill & All
While working on my rotary gap last night i found a cool way to secure whatever to a small dc motor well mine is 12 cordless drill replacement/hobby motor but same diff.
I had an old soldering iron and the tip was long gone so i unscrewd the single screw that holds the tip in and yanked the tip housing out. I then stuck that thing upside down the motor head and used the screw to tighten it to the shaft the same way you would a tip. its holding pretty secure when its up to speed and now im looking for a light material for the disk maybe i'll cut apart a cd spindle and put foil strips on it but im trying to find something a little nicer. Either way its always hard to find gear heads or attachments for motors axel so i figured this would help.
Joe
@Joe,
Thank you for your clear explanation (again).
You and others were way ahead of me in experience when we started. I had the ability to follow what the concept was from the beginning, but I never had enough hands on to KNOW what was really going on. All this which I have been doing has given me that. I have a much better understanding of what you just said than I did before.
So, thank you for your patience.
-------------
I want to offer one more oddball observation right now:
In studying the reactions with a battery a very important element is left out.
It is the core bolt.
In the end it may make no difference, because 60 sparks is 60 sparks and that ought to do it. If, however for some reason there is a problem getting the sparks to let fly, I want to mention this:
I have a modem speaker which responds to a very small voltage. so, using that speaker, In the battery voltage being introduced through the dry 10's there is a sound produced at 5,6. (makes sense-it closes the circuit)
In the galvanic coil (moist) , however, the sound is utterly silent over the 5,6 wires but quite audible when I connect the 5(Cu) to the central bolt.
Who knows, I certainly don't, maybe leaving the 6(fe) free and the magnetism produced in the whole iron wire unconnected will bring a better result, maybe not. And it may not be needed.
I just wanted to repeat this observation, because it does not show up very well on a dmm.
EDIT: CORRECTION:
I just got the crystal radio earpiece (see below) and this is a high impedence earphone-I don't understand this word yet- but IT can hear from both places, the 5.6 terminals and the cu-bolt connection. So I guess it is happening on the 5,6 too only weaker since it takes the stronger speaker to make the sound
same subject, different angle:
I asked about the capacitor yesterday, and then I got to thinking; maybe this is the capacitor.
The grounded iron stake which is magnetized, to the copper wire that has electricity flowing in it and yet physically separated - "...by a similar layer of insulating material 9 ..." from the copper. (also, maybe not) [8 and 9 are both insulating materials but 8 is for covering the copper wire and 9 is specifically pointed out as an insulating material used to insulate the iron core from the rest.]
OK enough for now, My crystal radio kit has just arrived and I am gonna play with that!
jeanna
Quote from: Localjoe on March 12, 2008, 12:47:44 PM
@Bill & All
While working on my rotary gap last night i found a cool way to secure whatever to a small dc motor well mine is 12 cordless drill replacement/hobby motor but same diff.
I had an old soldering iron and the tip was long gone so i unscrewd the single screw that holds the tip in and yanked the tip housing out. I then stuck that thing upside down the motor head and used the screw to tighten it to the shaft the same way you would a tip. its holding pretty secure when its up to speed and now im looking for a light material for the disk maybe i'll cut apart a cd spindle and put foil strips on it but im trying to find something a little nicer. Either way its always hard to find gear heads or attachments for motors axel so i figured this would help.
Joe
@joe
Joe i think a good material to use for the disc is what i used for my comutator in a newman motor i built!.
I used blank pcb board, i cut out a circular disc and ground away the sections i didnt need, this gave me a good comutator
with multiple contact points that was/is very durable!.
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi76.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj7%2Fbumchuckney%2Fpcbboard.jpg&hash=46714799d5249b93b4e2dae0279384b59976b07a)
@ Chad:
I was thinking along these same lines as well.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on March 06, 2008, 07:06:22 PM
@Epiphany:
According to what I have seen in my multiple electrode experiments, the only "hot spot" you need is to have the north south alignment with the positive material to the north, and the angle of the bottom of the implanted electrodes to match the magnetic dip angle for your area. This gave me the best results. I do not believe Nathan went around looking for spots better than others. I only read that in one small writing and I am dubious as to the information's accuracy. Of all of the many other documents I have read, this is not mentioned at all. It does not mean it is not true of course, but I think it is unlikely. I can get over 2 volts dc using the above mentioned process using just 2 electrodes. All experimentation is good however and I am fascinated by your dowsing techniques. I would love to attempt that sometime.
Bill
Hey Bill,
sorry it took so long to respond. Been real busy here on projects. I've since read the whole thread as well and wish I'd waited to wade in. I saw Freezer's earlier post on dowsing on page 98 and Jeanna mention more than once of using headphones to detect something. I'm glad to see the experiments with the NS earth battery patent reproductions. This is some great stuff. I'm still intrigued by the hot spot idea and the idea of a 'more potential to capture' area being found. Hot spots and dead spots affect where a 'ground' plane (as in ~sink) might be established for communication equipment as I understand it. So, that's all there is to that. While some folks are looking for the good ground spots (dead), we might be interested in the other end of the spectrum. The 'Ley Line' thing may just be associated with the hot spot areas. While I'm imagining, I think the kind of juice one could expect from these cells will be the kind to light bulbs and heat elements (as said earlier in the thread by someone else I think). Perhaps it has to be conditioned to run motors, even DC motors.
Wide band electricity? I wonder if the leaders that you see coming out of the ground just prior to a lightning strike are in anyway the same juice? In that case, a huge potential difference exists between the atmosphere and the local ground area. I would also call the area (talking about the ground you would be standing on here) highly charged with respect to the ground not far away. You always hear that in a thunderstorm, if you can feel the hair on your arm stand up, you better find cover fast.
I wonder if NS decided he would attract smaller leaders by creating a local potential difference?
I've heard stories of potential differences existing between telephone central offices in the multiples of 10 volts (like 30 volts). So, ground is not always ground. It's just a collection of molecules that look similar to dirt. :)
@ epiphany:
I don't disagree with anything you said in your post. Since we all really don't "know" what is causing the electricity in the ground, all we can do is speculate and experiment. I am just amazed that we have anything that works at all. It is still very amazing to me. When I read about the old telegraph batteries that had long since "died" and the telegraph was still operational, that tells me something. I think the electric and phone companies think this "additional" power is just a pain to them and design ways around it. They have for years. I don't believe that anyone since Stubblefield has really taken the time to seriously study this effect...until now of course. I have not had the guts (maybe too much common sense?) to test my electrode's power output during a close thunderstorm. I would bet it would be much higher. I almost tried it during one very large storm but it didn't make sense to be standing on wet ground holding copper wires that were well grounded to electrodes implanted in the wet earth. Maybe next time, ha ha.
Bill
@ All:
After replying to epiphany's post I just had a crazy thought. First, I started thinking about a safe way to see what happens during an electrical storm with my electrodes outside. I thought about hooking up a bunch of leds to the circuit and then sit inside and see if they all light up during a lightning strike. (or burn out) Then, I was thinking about what would happen if one were to hook up a larger capacitor to the electrodes, or several of them. Would they charge? And, if they did, it would make everything my physics professor told me about lightning incorrect. Might this be a safe way to tap into just a little bit of lightning's power? A lightning rod would obviously blow out anything we attempted to capture the power into but, our electrodes in the ground might be the key to actually doing this. So, if I were to wire up a bunch of super caps during a storm and they charged, would I then not have tapped electricity from lightning? My physics professor said this was impossible to do as lightning was "static" and not "real " electricity. I think otherwise.
Like I said, it was just a crazy thought. Any comments?
Bill
@Bill,
This reply is about Static electricity.
Bill Beaty has a whole lot to say about it too. Seems the EE's have it all over the physicists. (but we already knew that, didn't we? ;) )
A couple of years ago I found this page. I downloaded the pdf and watched all the little Quicktime movies. Then the page disappeared. R.Morse must have had a lot of requests to reload it because here it is,
It is a lot of fun and works on a very small budget. Instead of the big generator he uses, I found the pvc pipe generator I described to you before.
Doing those experiments then reading Ben Franklin's writings is very informative. I Think you and lots of folks here will enjoy it.
http://www.tufts.edu/as/wright_center/personal_pages/bob_m/ (http://www.tufts.edu/as/wright_center/personal_pages/bob_m/)
Oh, and relevant too. If we are to use a spark we are right in the middle of the subject of 'static' electricity. ;)
jeanna
@ Jeanna:
Cool videos and info...thanks.
Bill
Hi all,
I spent today studying coil guns. It seems that it is the perfect study for where I am in this NS coil design.
I will pass on one of many good sites. This one has good explanations of the math but it also sums it if you don't want to follow along with a pencil.
No page is too long but every page contains valuable information of some kind so here it is:
http://www.coilgun.info/home.htm (http://www.coilgun.info/home.htm)
jeanna
PS Yes, Joe, I did make one sort of like the one you described to me the other day. It is fun. Even when I missed the coil wires and got a BIG BANG instead of a nail being sucked into the coil. ;D ;D
MMMMM this is a funny thing,
After yesterdays foray into coilguns and thoughts about same, I had an idea. ;D
I was seeing how it is possible to augment what is in a wire or maybe the circuit? by wrapping another secondary coil around an iron core that already has a primary and a secondary. I guess this idea isn't new, the flash power augmentation is based on it.
(I am thinking it might help to get that spark.)
So, I decided to wrap another secondary around the Fe10 wire. (I could have used the 6 but in the case of this coil it is crooked and the 10 is a good subject for wrapping.-no other reason for the 10)
BTW this coil is still moist from some tests done a few days ago, but I added no water today.
I measured ohms volts and amps before and after. In the following readings the probes are on the cu10 and the secondary, which is wrapped around the Fe10. (the cu 10 or 5 to this secondary is the only place that gave a reading- on this new secondary)
What happened is:
the dc voltage dropped (from 132 to 87mvdc)
(The vac are not within the resolution of the meter.)
The amps drop while I read them so the range of the coil without the 2nd secondary were
1.09mAdc to 0.97mAdc and they went UP to a range of
1.70mAdc to 1.13mAdc
now that is cool. not much but up.
So, then I fired up a supercap with 2.5 volts and shorted it across the 10's.
And in that bittersweet arena where you don't know if you had something until you lose it... It is gone.
There is nearly zero on every reading except resistance.
In the last 30 minutes the amperage has risen to 20 uAmps.
bitter but sweet ;),
jeanna
Edit: About 1 1/2 hours after that last post, I came back into the lab ;D ;D and put the probes back onto the same wires and the whole thing was restored.!! Then before my marvelling eyes, the reading dropped then returned then dropped again. It cycled from hi to low 2 times in maybe 5 minutes, then cycled 2 more times but much slower, maybe over 45 min to an hour. I was looking at voltage but when things got slow I looked at amps too and they were running parallel as far as I can tell.
I am going to rewind this and put more winds on it. (this one has about 50 in 4 layers.)
More next time :D )
@jeanna
"I spent today studying coil guns. It seems that it is the perfect study for where I am in this NS coil design."---figured youd like it ;) ;D
Sorry i didnt warn you better about being carful with the photo flash circuit.Ã, Its given me quite a jolt before.Ã, The 300 v off the cap isnt that bad it will hurt a little and startle the hell out of you but the 4kv from the flash side.. will make ya jump back and possibly skrew with your nerves for a sec.Ã, Dont complet the circuit with you handÃ, ;DÃ, Anyways soldering connections to the little board for the charging switch and the rest is the way to go so as to not get shocked.. I found just the camera flash boards for about .79$ on http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G15800 (http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G15800)Ã, Direct link. The last coil gun i built i put 3 of the photo flash caps the 300v 200mfd in parallel to give me 300v @600mfd of storage.Ã, Charged them off a single photo flash board. It will send the head of a roofing nail through stryfoam or cardboard... Pretty cool. Gives you a better respect for electricity too.. A double A battery can be deadly , well not really but the energy stored in it is much more than one would think ;D
Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Joe
Hi people, this is my first venture in your section on earth batteries so I hope it ends up in the right section.
I have been browsing the last few days and have noticed a very common problem, where can one access carbon rods, stainless, material etc etc.
CARBON RODS
Well I once took apart the insides of a 6 volt lantern battery setup, these are the biggish heavy square ones used in a plastic lantern torch, they have the spring contacts on the top of the batteries.
The battery has 4 dry cells which are a bit longer than the old D size battery, just peal away the tin cover with pliers, then separate the battery cells, cut the base of the battery off with a hack saw, tip out the black stuff.
You are left with a zinc outer casing and a central carbon electrode. (ha ha wear gloves) pry out the carbon electrode and scrape off any gunk sticking to it. There is a nice shiny top cap that one can use to solder a wire to access the power coming from the carbon electrode.
ZINC
No doubt the zinc casein could be put to another usage also.
Another way is to look for carbon arc electrodes that I used to use in the cinema projectors lamp housings, there were long and short electrodes, they had a coating of thin copper plate which can be peeled back with pliers, if you are careful.
OK hope I solved the carbon access problem.
By the way, I live in out back Australia west of the great dividing range, and I also read 1/2 a volt on the copper 1/2 " 4' pipe I drove in the ground, which is connected to a 24" aluminium tube I took from my vacuum cleaner, ha ha.
I also read AC voltage as well as DC.
MAGNESIUM
Haven't tried this yet,
Another place to find Magnesium is from a broken MAG wheel rim, try your local car wrecker, I'm sure he will be only too eager to let you have one for about nothing, it's no good for it's original purpose. Every nowandagain I see one at our local dump, going to keep my eyes peeled now for more.
STAINLESS STEEL
Try your local scrap metal bloke, they always have the stuff, ask for old sinks you might get it cheep.
LOCAL PAPER
Put a advert in your local rag, maybe someone has metal junk they would be happy for you to take away for free.
SOFTWARE
Well I think I will make some program .EXE it will be nothing fancy, just so I can record my findings using various metal electrodes, what does what, which is more efficient etc etc,
Let me know what you think by sending me a message to, jdudgeon at big pond dot com . just leave out the at and replace the dot with a dot, join up the big with the pond. Type EPower in the topic or it will get tossed out.
if I get enough responses I'll do it for zilch
Hope I have been of some help
Jim
Your always welcome to stay here and replicate wtih us for ZILCH too... :D :D
Joe,
Quotei took some bismuth and layed slats of it under the end of the barrel just enough to prop it up and it gave me added range and velocity, as well i Plugged my opposite end the end i wasn't shooting out of with bismuth.
I forgot to ask you before, Where are you getting slats of bismuth?
Some guy on the net describes melting bb shot into a form. Is this what you are doing?
jeanna
Listen to this talk show that talks about stubblefield and his earth battery.
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/WaterFuelMuseum/2007/09/29/timothy
esaruoho
Full Member
Posts: 106
Re: "Self Running 900 Watt Fuelless Electrical Generator" Is this new?
? Reply #217 on: Today at 04:32:14 AM ? Quote
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Quote from: nightlife on Today at 04:08:03 AM
Be sure to listen to the talk show posted by esaruoho, it talks a bit about the earth battery and I think you would take interest in it. I will post it in the earth battery thread too.
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/WaterFuelMuseum/blog/2007/09/29/timothy
now please be sure that whenever you give that url to someone, that yuo tell them (so that they dont wast etheir time) that the first sound coming from the webpage is not the thrapp interview. the sound is the newest interview conducted by mr. robey, and you have to press PLAY on the thrapp interview on the left for it to start. i had 3 people go through some pantone/geet / waterfuel interview before i realized that they weren't responding to anything that thrapp was saying, and they weren't because they hadnt actually heard the thrapp interview!!
weird.
anyway yeah theres quite a bit about stubblefield earthbattery and the stubblefield parabolic mirrors, and hydroxy boosters, radiant energy boosters and their forthcoming website and how he got started etc. i'd love for there to be a continuing "thing" on the 31st march sterling d. allan interview. lets see.
Thrapp is a con man in my opinion. Do some simple research people and you will no doubt agree.
Bill
@ All:
I have sad news to report. David Mcgrath, known on here as MadDog, a great friend of mine and fellow earth battery experimenter, was killed this morning, along with his wife, and 15 year old daughter, in a terrible car accident on the interstate. They are survived by their son, Chris, 20, who attends the local university here. I still can't get my mind around this. He was very interested in our efforts and had a very creative mind. He, and his wife and child, will be missed.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on March 19, 2008, 09:11:37 PM
@ All:
I have sad news to report. David Mcgrath, known on here as MadDog, a great friend of mine and fellow earth battery experimenter, was killed this morning, along with his wife, and 15 year old daughter, in a terrible car accident on the interstate. They are survived by their son, Chris, 20, who attends the local university here. I still can't get my mind around this. He was very interested in our efforts and had a very creative mind. He, and his wife and child, will be missed.
Bill
I'm sorry for your loss Bill. What a terrible way to go too.
@ epiphany, Jeanna:
Thank you.
Bill
@ All:
Has anyone seen Hans lately? I have not seen him posting here, or on any other topic for a while now.
Bill
@bill
ive not seen anything of Hans just latley either, lets just hope he's descovered something great and is giving it his full attention. :)
Sorry to hear about MadDog bill.. our thoughts are with his family.
Chad.
@ Chad:
Thank you.
Bill
A small voltage can be made using the same metals if those metals are not from the same batch of molten metal.two tin can lids placed in vingear will give a voltgage of one tenth volt.the steel lids while similar are dissimilar enought to generate a very small voltage.Since they likely came from different batches of steel.I have done this repeatly.one-tenth volt is what I always get.triffid
@Bill
Sorry to hear about maddog. Life is short and the time is now. I guess thats our lesson learned. Send our best to the child and please tell him of his fathers notable efforts. It might mean a lot to him. Ive been busy with life shit so ive been mia but im wondering about hans hope all is well we dont need 2 deaths.
Joe
@jeanna
I got the bismuth from united neuclar after that i used al cans and a map gas torch to melt it how i waneted it. The bismuth wont stick to the aluminum so its easy to use for a mold. ;) :)
@stefan
I remember this thread being over 100 pages is anyhting lost now tis at 41 or so pages?? Or just backed up somethow?
@joe
i think theres more posts per page now joe....unless im mistaken?.
chad
I thought that too last time this happened,... but the pages dont seem more than twice as long this time
Hi Joe,
I noticed the same thing (diminishing page numbers) occurred on another thread: the one talking about Jack Durban. Anyway...
I just read this interesting article: http://www.highdesertshaman.com/Schuman_Resonance.html (http://www.highdesertshaman.com/Schuman_Resonance.html)
There's maybe some woo-woo in the article, but the lightning/ionospere information (which I'm sure everyone has read about before) is a different flavor.
P.S. I'm not a tin foil hatter (but maybe I should be :) ).
P.P.S. I do think that the juice we're looking for may be related to the displays seen during a lightning storm, just smaller scale?
@ Joe:
Thank you. I am having a hard time with this. But I know life goes on. I can't imagine what his son (19) is going through. I too hope that Hans is ok also...I will e-mail him in a bit. We were well over 110 pages last time I remember checking. I also thought that the pages were longer but, as you said, no way over twice as long. Possibly Stefan deleted many of the photos that were over the new limit? I know we had quite a few on here. I guess one of us could ask him.
I will be back to experimenting in a little while. I still have some ideas that I want to check out.
Bill
I went back to page 40 and counted the posts. There were 49, with 9 of them adverts. So 40 pages at 40 posts gives 1600, but the last post says 1599 (I think), so the post count maybe starts at zero?
Anyway, it looks like the post count per page is 40, ignoring the adverts.
I have purchased some 7/8 " zinc plated all thread with nuts and washers and a length (not sure yet) of 14 guage galvanized wire. A magnet is attracted to all of that. I also have some 14 guage romex, but don't think the length will match. I'd like to wind the whole length of steel wire, so I'm waiting on some bare copper right now. The all thread is 3' long.
I'm wondering if a couple of winds on this length would be equivalent to multiple winds on a shorter piece? If the thinking was to create a stronger field (whatever that is...), maybe more winds on a shorter piece? If it's a weak field and it's more about dissimilar metals, then the longer rod would suffice and be easier to wind.
Initially, I will wind the whole length. I know that NS used stove bolts in his patent, but maybe he used what was available at the time? He also built them to be serviceable, I think.
I just wanted to make one more comment about the lightning/juice analogy. I'm trying to imagine what the mechanism would be that would draw the kind of potential that NS was able to produce.
I'm inclined to think NS was creating a local net potential (positive charge?) that created an imbalance that 'nature' was trying to correct. Perhaps he was using the incoming juice that would normally be correcting the imbalance and having that assist in producing an even greater imbalance? Like Joe mentioned that the coils need to be excited somehow.
Either that, or NS had a whole bunch of these little coils in some very specific locations ('hot spots'). You've probably already read that it takes awhile for the coils to become effective once they've been installed in their chosen location, like a week or so?
I understand that Tesla's magnifier had a huge undergound array. Ultimately, was his potential going to come from the earth (or through it, like it was some kind of cheesecloth)?
Quote from: epiphany on March 25, 2008, 04:54:32 PM
I just wanted to make one more comment about the lightning/juice analogy. I'm trying to imagine what the mechanism would be that would draw the kind of potential that NS was able to produce.
I'm inclined to think NS was creating a local net potential (positive charge?) that created an imbalance that 'nature' was trying to correct. Perhaps he was using the incoming juice that would normally be correcting the imbalance and having that assist in producing an even greater imbalance? Like Joe mentioned that the coils need to be excited somehow.
Either that, or NS had a whole bunch of these little coils in some very specific locations ('hot spots'). You've probably already read that it takes awhile for the coils to become effective once they've been installed in their chosen location, like a week or so?
I understand that Tesla's magnifier had a huge undergound array. Ultimately, was his potential going to come from the earth (or through it, like it was some kind of cheesecloth)?
Hey good thoughts mang. But there still speculation even tho i may share some. What we do know is this
-anythign kept in the earth in a non arid climate usually stay's a little damp.
- all that is needed to excite the primary is a little moisture and it starts producing voltage
-Curiously our inital metal tests of those with carbon zinc copper graphite and other assorted metals yeilded potentials higher than the galvanic table showed.. yet when just in water these electropotential differentces showed up according to the chart- Bill and i have said many times .. theres something else there we jsut dont know what yet.
-The real power comes from the secondary winding of lots of wire and its ac
-Ã, Some form of make and break decvice /relay operates the primary coil makeing and breakign its connection
-The speed of that make and break is proportional to the juice in the secondary producedMy un substaitented theory is this-Ã, The ground is enough to A - keep the primary coil wet and B- is a source of increceased potential for metals.Ã, Ã, In my head i see the primary relay/rotary gap winding up and when at speed creating a magnetic pumping action in the central bolt as well as the seconday coil .. This phrase curiously exists in the patent for some reason.. " A magnetic feild will be created inside and outside of the primary coil"Ã, This senstances importance may yet be unknown.Ã, This is a transformer of sorts and i think the bolts purpose is a magnetic sink.Ã, What if this device redirects the normal EM FlowÃ, on top of or through the earth and acts as a funnel of sorts.. The phrase Self Generating Induction coil seems to have a means to an end after looking at that fact.. Great work as always i just wanted to share my opinion as well.
Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Joe
Quote
Hey good thoughts mang. But there still speculation even tho i may share some. What we do know is this
-anythign kept in the earth in a non arid climate usually stay's a little damp.
- all that is needed to excite the primary is a little moisture and it starts producing voltage
-Curiously our inital metal tests of those with carbon zinc copper graphite and other assorted metals yeilded potentials higher than the galvanic table showed.. yet when just in water these electropotential differentces showed up according to the chart- Bill and i have said many times .. theres something else there we jsut dont know what yet.
-The real power comes from the secondary winding of lots of wire and its ac
- Some form of make and break decvice /relay operates the primary coil makeing and breakign its connection
-The speed of that make and break is proportional to the juice in the secondary produced
My un substaitented theory is this- The ground is enough to A - keep the primary coil wet and B- is a source of increceased potential for metals. In my head i see the primary relay/rotary gap winding up and when at speed creating a magnetic pumping action in the central bolt as well as the seconday coil .. This phrase curiously exists in the patent for some reason.. " A magnetic feild will be created inside and outside of the primary coil" This senstances importance may yet be unknown. This is a transformer of sorts and i think the bolts purpose is a magnetic sink. What if this device redirects the normal EM Flow on top of or through the earth and acts as a funnel of sorts.. The phrase Self Generating Induction coil seems to have a means to an end after looking at that fact.. Great work as always i just wanted to share my opinion as well.
Joe
I know I am not part of this group ...... just thought I would add my 2 cents worth....
I was looking for a quote that I read before about Stubblfield attaching wires to tree roots for another thread ......
I found a site that I find interesting.
http://www.hbci.com/~wenonah/history/nathan-s.htm
It is a pretty long page .......but in my opinion it contains alot of information about how Stubblefield gained some of his knowledge.
almost half way through the page I found this .
Quote
Mr. Stubblefield observed a strange "earth-charging phenomenon", reporting that the burial of an "earth energy cell" required time to build up charge. During the first phase of this charge building process, the characteristic weak output was observed. This was usually a volt at half an ampere, the general electrolytic output of buried metals.
From his linesman mentors, Stubblefield knew that placement of any grounded metal was the key toward deriving power. If properly placed, the energetic output of his cell would be phenomenal. Finding such a power point, he buried the cell. The process took a week or more to build strength. Once the cell was "saturated", however, it became (in his words) "a conduit of earth charge". This mysterious transition from weak battery to energy conduit required time.
Perhaps you are farther along than you realised
:)
gary
@ Gary:
I have not read that. Thank you. As Joe has said, we don't really know what happened back then, or how he did it. This might prove to be yet another piece in the puzzle. Good find.
Bill
@One or anyone else
Your welcome to be part of the group i dont mind additions never did i just like to tell folks where were at and my best idea of where were going with the project that way when new ideas are added regardless of there place int he scheme of things everyones on the same page to make there own evaluations of where it might fit in. The more help the marrier ...
But this device is is different than the other "free energy devices" in my eyes becuase eveythign in the patent works the way it should and says so far.
We just need to scale it up. You wont find people hiding things here like in a tpu thread or any head games JUST ASK and we'll tell you all we know. Hopefully this will make a nice atmosphere for newcomers and others hiding out without logins yet : ;) :)
Joe
@Gary, thanks for that link. It's the most verbose page on NS so far that I've seen.
"In addition to this bimetallic winding, there is a third winding: the "secondary". This third coil is insulated from the primary bimetallic coil, serving as a trigger device. Presumably, a stimulating impulse shock was introduced into the tertiary coil, after which the upwelling electrical ground response brought forth powerful currents in both iron and copper coils. "
"His patent and subsequent company brochures define the manner in which his earth battery was to be activated."
The above from:
[urlhttp://www.hbci.com/~wenonah/history/nathan-s.htm][/url]
From the 600457 patent:
The terminals 10 of the copper and iron wires 5 and 6 are disconnected so as to preserve the character of the wires as the electrodes of the voltaic couple; but the other or remaining terminals of the wires are brought in contact through the interposition of any electrical instrument or device with which they may be connected to cause the electric currents generated in the coil-body 4 to flow through such instrument or device.
The patent (600457) doesn't actually describe the stimulating impulse shock. I wonder if a company brochure survived and is at the museum? The stories all seem to say that it takes awhile for the cells to become useful, but after they activate, they become quite powerful. It seems to me that the power is supposed to be tapped from the primary windings, not the secondary? My impression is that there may be an initial 'activation', but then you just wait? My gut tells me that there would be a slow ramp to useful potential. I wonder if a load is placed on 5 and 6 from the get-go? Perhaps it might assist the cell in pulling more power?
I apologize for all of the speculation from me, Joe. So far, that's all I have. ;)
@epiphany & Gary
Let me get you guys up to speed. Ive written lots of these things out here i will find them all and put them in pdf for you gimme an hr or so. As well The upwelling comment is from bedini's page and from my research ive found he was wrong and possibly didint understand the paten. Theres a lot here so get ready ;D
Joe
Quote from: Localjoe on March 26, 2008, 04:27:27 PM
@epiphany & Gary
Let me get you guys up to speed. Ive written lots of these things out here i will find them all and put them in pdf for you gimme an hr or so. As well The upwelling comment is from bedini's page and from my research ive found he was wrong and possibly didint understand the paten. Theres a lot here so get ready ;D
Joe
Thank you Joe. I wrote an email to Bob Lochte to ask him if he knew anything about the cell excitation method. I also mentioned this thread. He has written alot about NS.
Here's his website:
http://campus.murraystate.edu/academic/faculty/bob.lochte/1stpage.htm (http://campus.murraystate.edu/academic/faculty/bob.lochte/1stpage.htm)
So far, the email hasn't bounced back...
Here ya go guys this is a collection of my stuff and should be a good guide for ya. :)
@all
Has anybody else had a cell buried for as long as a week or so?.
I buried just the primary part of my cell 6 days ago to see what or if anything would happen, the cell was dry and reading a voltage of around .3v with no current but now the cell is reading .512v and just over 7 Milliamps, ive took readings over the course and noticed the current is increasing by a small amount each day.
one more thing i must add, my kids kicked a football and dead shorted my cell for around 2 days so i believe the progress of the current build up could have been effected?.
I will leave the cell for a few more days to see if the current continues to rise, i will then remove it and wind the secondary ready for more testing.
just thought id let you guys know.
still no word from Hans yet?.
Chad.
Quote from: Localjoe on March 26, 2008, 05:35:48 PM
Here ya go guys this is a collection of my stuff and should be a good guide for ya. :)
Nice work up Joe !
I'm thinking the make/break on the primary to induce something in the secondary (or tertiary) is only one of the applications. I'm thinking the main juice out of the 5 and 6 leads is more or less a DC and is a 'focused emanation', in which case the tertiary winding isn't needed, buuuut I could be wrong. :-\
I've got to get something in the ground, and get out of my armchair, huh? :)
@Chad, thanks for that info.
Quote from: epiphany on March 26, 2008, 06:27:56 PM
Quote from: Localjoe on March 26, 2008, 05:35:48 PM
Here ya go guys this is a collection of my stuff and should be a good guide for ya. :)
Nice work up Joe !
I'm thinking the make/break on the primary to induce something in the secondary (or tertiary) is only one of the applications. I'm thinking the main juice out of the 5 and 6 leads is more or less a DC and is a 'focused emanation', in which case the tertiary winding isn't needed, buuuut I could be wrong. :-\
I've got to get something in the ground, and get out of my armchair, huh? :)
@Chad, thanks for that info.
Thanks !
Anyways As far as the make and break a self powerd relay or rotary spark gap powerd on a hobby motor will will work great. The third coil is needed He puts a statement in his patent so the novice will pass by the real potential it goes something like this - A usable voltage and current will be produed in the primary when moist and those curretnts can operate a electrical device or flow through it.
That is the device preforming the make and break. The real power comes from the secondary coil in the form of ac voltage and current, tested and sure. the speed the primary makes and breaks is the speed the energy dumps from the primary into the secondary the freq . Its hard if your not into electronics to see the importance of those things but we all learn sometime. :) Thanks for your interest.
Joe
@joe.
do you think that the physical vibration caused by the make and break could play a part in drawing extra current in to the cell?, the reason i ask is because i saw a video of a guy with 2 aluminium discs were he attached one on either probe of a multimeter and rolled the discs anlong the soil and a voltage was produced, but when the discs were stationary no voltage was recorded, this was a while ago as i remember it.
this just got me thinking if the physical vibration could play a part....how much of a part im not sure?.
Chad.
@Joe,
When you first started talking about the make/break, I thought that a distributor from a v8 might work (the old point kind). 8 make/breaks per revolution. There'd have to be some metal work done to get the thing to spin, but I recon if it's designed for easy 3k revolutions a minute, it would mean 3k times 8 make/breaks or 400 cps. At 5k it would be 666 cps. I don't know how fast you planned on performing the make break.
Working back the other way, for 60 cps (HZ), the thing only need to turn 450 rpm, so you get 8 make/breaks per revolution, so 8 times 450 = 3600 make/breaks a minute divided by 60 seconds.
Quote from: epiphany on March 26, 2008, 07:12:42 PM
@Joe,
When you first started talking about the make/break, I thought that a distributor from a v8 might work (the old point kind). 8 make/breaks per revolution. There'd have to be some metal work done to get the thing to spin, but I recon if it's designed for easy 3k revolutions a minute, it would mean 3k times 8 make/breaks or 400 cps. At 5k it would be 666 cps. I don't know how fast you planned on performing the make break.
Working back the other way, for 60 cps (HZ), the thing only need to turn 450 rpm, so you get 8 make/breaks per revolution, so 8 times 450 = 3600 make/breaks a minute divided by 60 seconds.
My vote is for a passive meaning self powered from small battery motor with disc on its end segmented with copper in the normal fashion for make and breaks.Ã, The battery on the motor plays no part and has no connection other than to the motor and a poteiometer to vary its speed or whatever is novel for a speed controller.Ã, That way the ac output is tunable so to say. A relay can be powered off the device itself or built in so theres the best i can say . We want it variable in my eyes to test stuff out first, find the optimum freq of the timing circuit for production in the secondary and diff lengths on the secondary. This all comes after the build tho so dont be too concerned with it untill your at the point where youve put all the wire into your primary you can. ;D 8)
Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Joe
@chad
I dont think so but you never know at this point stick to the description i gave in the summary and your gaurenteed results as we have.
Joe
Thanks for the link for your condensed version of the work so far
I have been planning and getting ready for testing some theorys for a few months now .
I have been working on ways to test my theorys with out spending tons of money on equipment and stuff .
The basic earth battery primary may be a good " foundation " to start from .
I have a few questions
I read in the condensed version and somewhere else that bigger diamiter wire is better.
Has there been any results here that show if this is true?
About coil geomitry
From what I have seen on this thread it looks like most of the primarys are long and skinny ....... usually 2 layers.
I remember reading about Stubbfields coils as being described as flowepot sized , to me that implies it is close to flowerpot shape ......to me that means almost as wide as it is tall .
Anyone here know if a short stubby coil makes a stronger or weaker magnetic field than a long skinny coil?
The stronger the magnetic field my primary makes the more likely it will work with my other theorys.
Any other observations or ideas about how to make a the primary a stronger electromagnet ?
thanks
gary
Quote from: epiphany on March 26, 2008, 07:12:42 PM
@Joe,
When you first started talking about the make/break, I thought that a distributor from a v8 might work (the old point kind). 8 make/breaks per revolution. There'd have to be some metal work done to get the thing to spin, but I recon if it's designed for easy 3k revolutions a minute, it would mean 3k times 8 make/breaks or 400 cps. At 5k it would be 666 cps. I don't know how fast you planned on performing the make break.
Working back the other way, for 60 cps (HZ), the thing only need to turn 450 rpm, so you get 8 make/breaks per revolution, so 8 times 450 = 3600 make/breaks a minute divided by 60 seconds.
epiphany
I think Joe was thinking of something more on the lines of buzzer type make or break .
On the other hand a rotory version with a variable motor would be a great way to check out how it works at many different frequencys
The main problem I see with using an automotive distributor is that it is built for high voltages . The rotor doesn't actually touch the contacts as it passes them.
For low voltage the rotor would have to be modified with some kind of spring like contact that extended just slightly above the normal surface of the rotor contact .
The material that came to mind for the contact is a piece of bronze door weather stripping .
gary
Edit
After thinking about it ...... if you are using a fairly powerful motor and you don't mind a little noise.
It might be possable to carefully twist the trailing side of the rotor contact up just a little .
By just a little I mean if you can see that it is twisted you probably went to far . :)
@ one:
There have been several photos of NS earth batteries posted here...I could not even begin to tell you what pages to look at, those batteries were much longer than they were wide. To me they kind of looked to be about the size of a 2" OD pvc pipe and about 18" long. Stubblefield had many of these batteries in wooden boxes in one of the pictures.
I am still a fan of the rotary make/break (self-contained) device controlled by a pot as Joe has described. Easier, cheaper, and much more flexibility in speed control.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on March 26, 2008, 09:03:45 PM
@ one:
There have been several photos of NS earth batteries posted here...I could not even begin to tell you what pages to look at, those batteries were much longer than they were wide. To me they kind of looked to be about the size of a 2" OD pvc pipe and about 18" long. Stubblefield had many of these batteries in wooden boxes in one of the pictures.
I am still a fan of the rotary make/break (self-contained) device controlled by a pot as Joe has described. Easier, cheaper, and much more flexibility in speed control.
Bill
Thanks Bill
I spent an hour or 2 a day for a couple weeks reading the start of this thread ....... then I saw how many pages it has..... it would take me monthis at the rate I was going .
I have also been trying to keep up with the posts here for a month or 2 .......so I have seen some of the pictures
I did notice that long and skinny seemed to be the trend .... just wondering if I missed a reason for this.
Personally my gut feeling is that short and wide with a good sized core would work best .
gary
@Gary,
The old point set distributor was in wide use before the inductive electronic ignition came about. The point sets have an adjustable base. There's a little fiber (or something) rubbing block that follows the distributor central gear. The gear has as many lobes on it as cylinders of course. Those lobes would force the points apart. When the points were forced apart, the secondary wnding of the coil was interrupted, and the coil's magnetic field would collapse into the primary winding, which 'saw' ground through the spark plug gap via the distributor cap. The points also have a spring on them to return them to their normal position. There was a condenser involved to reduce arcing of the points.
Sorry for the long explanation. I was seeing this being driven by a battery powered drill or something. That, and maybe they could handle a little more current. It might make for a quick proof of concept without too much overhead. :D
Quote from: epiphany on March 26, 2008, 09:29:31 PM
@Gary,
The old point set distributor was in wide use before the inductive electronic ignition came about. The point sets have an adjustable base. There's a little fiber (or something) rubbing block that follows the distributor central gear. The gear has as many lobes on it as cylinders of course. Those lobes would force the points apart. When the points were forced apart, the secondary wnding of the coil was interrupted, and the coil's magnetic field would collapse into the primary winding, which 'saw' ground through the spark plug gap via the distributor cap. The points also have a spring on them to return them to their normal position. There was a condenser involved to reduce arcing of the points.
Sorry for the long explanation. I was seeing this being driven by a battery powered drill or something. That, and maybe they could handle a little more current. It might make for a quick proof of concept without too much overhead. :D
I guess I assumed that you were talking about about using the whole distributor
Using just the cam and points is a better idea
gary
Quote from: one on March 26, 2008, 09:19:33 PM
I did notice that long and skinny seemed to be the trend .... just wondering if I missed a reason for this.
Personally my gut feeling is that short and wide with a good sized core would work best .
gary
Hi Gary,
I think if truth were told that the reason for the 2 layer coils is that we ran out of wire!
I tried to make a couple that were fatter and I just kept coming up with 3 1/2 layers when I ran out again.
This design is very complex and I think we may be a while sorting out what we should do to make it work better. Or, how to go about what we plan to do......
Give it a go and get the longest wire you can find.
My next one will use litz wire cuz I have about had it with hand wrapping all the copper.
Please let us know what you get no matter what you get. It all informs and helps.
jeanna
Bob Lochte replied to my email. He wasn't aware of the mechanism (~process) of the earth cell battery tertiary coil excitation method, and suggested reading the patent. He is of the opinion that the earth cell battery only produces low voltage. Bob, if you're reading this, I hope that this is a fair summary. :)
I still feel like it's going to take a hot spot placement to get the results NS was able to produce.
I saw a reference to 'Hartmann knot' somewhere, and wonder (there's that word again) if these are related, or just more woo-woo:
Hartmann Grids were discovered in 1950 by a German medical doctor, Ernst Hartmann. The lines form a grid around the earth, running north to south and east to west, and extend to a height of 60 to 600 feet. The north-south lines appear approximately every 6' 6", and the east-west lines appear approximately every 8' 2". According to Dr. Hartmann, the worst place that a person can sleep or work is over a Hartmann knot, where two Hartmann lines cross, as harmful radiation is intensified at this juncture.
from: http://www.explorepub.com/articles/geopathiczones1.html (http://www.explorepub.com/articles/geopathiczones1.html)
@epiphany
Maybe bob needs to read my work .. tell me what you make of these phrases .. i know im right and how easly others could have passed over the stuff ;D
"it will of course be
understood that there may be any number of
separate coils or layers of the wires according
to the required size and capacity of the
battery"-- Reffereing to the size of the primary wires and end product
******It has been found that by reason of winding
the couple of copper and iron wires into
40 a coil-body the current traversing the windings
of this body will produce a magnetic
field within and around the body of sufficiently
strong inductive effect for practical
utilization by means of a solenoid or second-
45 ary coil 12, as illustrated in Fig. 4 of the
drawings.
.. If one doesent realize theres two devices in the patent it may be hard to grasp how an magnetic feild inside and outside the primary is useful.. its created each time the primary wires meet through the "interposition"device and broken each time the device seperates the primary wires. Thats what creates the ac in the secondary rise collapse rise collapse ... Most of the "free energy guys" we admire have not gotten this patent right and hopefully we can share with them ;D
@Epiphany
In contrast his second device describes one set of ends of terminals 5 and 6 being permentatly soldered together no make and break. This creates a static magnetic feild that is disturbed by a mic or telegrapic relay on the secondary wires. See how there basicly opposites in operation
Self generating induction coil-- primary wires make and break through interposition device periodcly and stimulates ac in secondary
Self sustaining electromagnet- Primary wires are connected perm and mic is hooked to secondary for transmission or reciving.
Joe
@Joe
I hope you are right.
I placed the link to the overunity site (and this thread) in the email to Bob and said that the technology is being pursued. I hope he will chime in. I really was hoping to find a description of the coil excitation method that NS used. At this point it's a guess, and your guess is as good as anyone's ! :)
My guess is that NS may have excited the tertiary coil to affect an output onto a load tied to the 5 and 6 leads. This would be the 'raw power' mode? There maybe more than one way to get it going, but there will still be a need for the coil to become an earth energy attractor.
The stories talk of cables coming from the ground, so he could have had an ongoing excitation of the cells, but the excitation method was maybe remotely controlled? I say this, as I'm having trouble imagining burying an exciter mechanism.
This is a great mystery, and great thread that you have started!
Thank you!
@epiphany
Its worded very carefully i dont have time to explain now but i will later. The word interpose.. to assume a stance to interupt thats the key it says the primary wires 5 and 6 are interposed by a device so the currents can runt through them.. in english
The device interposes/interrupts the connection and allows it .. Make and Break ;D
Joe
Quote from: epiphany on March 27, 2008, 02:02:06 PM
The stories talk of cables coming from the ground, so he could have had an ongoing excitation of the cells, but the excitation method was maybe remotely controlled? I say this, as I'm having trouble imagining burying an exciter mechanism.
This is a great mystery, and great thread that you have started!
Thank you!
Hi Epiphany,
I will be away tonight and can't 'chat' but I want to throw out 1 or 2 thoughts.
1) As soon as the cell is moist there is a galvanic reax going on. You can play with it (collect it in a cap, use it for make and break etc.) but you will not stop it until the coil dries out.
2) I have had an idea for a while now about those cables from a distance. I think it is possible that NS added one galvanic amount (0.7vdc or so) to a coil's juice by connecting the stake of the coil to one a distance of 30 ft away. I haven't been able to try it so I didn't mention it. but anyway,
If you have a coil with a zinc coated spike, and you connect just the spike to a copper pipe 30 feet away you will have a starter of 0.7vdc. That is voltage running to the core piece 1, which becomes the magnet "holder" if you will.
Now add to this the current and voltage produced by the 'convolutions ' of the coil and you have just given your coil a bit of a boost. (theory only-remember) Now you have extra magnetism and possibly extra voltage.
OK, am going to a lecture tonight. I will check in tomorrow.
jeanna
EDIT
OK It is now tomorrow ( ;) ) and I want to add one more thought.
It is very likely that the
magnetic currents of the earth system will be what adds to the electricity available from the coil, and that just putting the stake into the earth will be enough to increase this. I don't want to throw anyone off, it was just a "what if" I have on my list that I mentioned above, because it seemed relevant.
j
@Jeanna,
I'm not clear on that. Are you proposing an excitation method using another earth battery cell? Sorry for being so dense here... :-\
@epiphany
Theres alot of stuff going on here. Jenna just wants to test something out we dont know if the rods pictured seperate from the patent are for this device or not. As far as the normal direction of things tho.. Jeanna is right we ran out of wire thats why all our coils were only a few layers.. and i have a bit of snow where i am. Anyways build the model as described in teh patent and my pdf.. That will get you a base to work with it shoudl make a little more sense after that.
Joe
@Joe
Okay. Thanks. It looks like I may be away for a bit. :)
Quote from: epiphany on March 29, 2008, 01:09:58 PM
@Jeanna,
I'm not clear on that. Are you proposing an excitation method using another earth battery cell? Sorry for being so dense here... :-\
Yup, I was wondering about that. (but it's not the first thing to do or think about.)
Joe's right. Just build one to start. Many questions will clear up when you do that.
jeanna
Quote from: epiphany on March 29, 2008, 01:45:21 PM
@Joe
Okay. Thanks. It looks like I may be away for a bit. :)
Well you dont have to go away... make sure to ask for help on whatever you have question on .. doesent help if ya dont get it right ;D .. plus we all have a lil experience with it now so im sure anyone here wil answer questions. Post pics as you build if you can.
Thanks
Joe
@Joe and Jeanna
Thank you and I will take pictures. If I am to believe the NS stories, correct placement of the cell may be more critical than the excitation method. I think I have speculated this to death now and need to get UP and do something.
@ All:
I have been studying the Bedini motor for a little while now and want to build one. Why am I posting this here? For a few reasons. For those of you that are familiar with this motor, you know that it uses a primary and secondary battery. It also uses a BIFILAR wound coil. (Like NS and Tesla) I want to build one and then try to use my earth battery as the primary. I have also seen nothing in my research if anyone ever tried using a secondary winding on this motor. So, I am thinking about using a secondary in later experiments to see if the pulsed ac can be inverted to dc and also used as an energy output as well. This might easily push it into OU which some claim it already is. Now, using the earth battery as the primary, I think OU will be a moot point as there will be no "expense" to the primary energy introduced to the system.
Also, another side reason, I have read that I can use a regular SG motor to charge my cell phone battery, and laptop battery, and bring them back to life well beyond what they were when new. This alone will help to recover my initial cost of building the motor. Plus, I can do this inside until the weather breaks and I can experiment with the earth cells as I have said.
Still no response from Hans, I hope he is ok. I have not had a reply from my e-mail or pms.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on March 29, 2008, 04:02:41 PM
@ All:
Also, another side reason, I have read that I can use a regular SG motor to charge my cell phone battery, and laptop battery, and bring them back to life well beyond what they were when new. This alone will help to recover my initial cost of building the motor. Plus, I can do this inside until the weather breaks and I can experiment with the earth cells as I have said.
Still no response from Hans, I hope he is ok. I have not had a reply from my e-mail or pms.
Bill
Bill
be careful with those batterys
I am not sure that LI battersy can be fixed once they go bad .
If I am understanding what I have been reading lately about the new nanowire technology the problem with the lithiem is that it swells as the battery is charged . .....and eventually breaks down and stops conducting
I have watched videos on U tube showing people blowing up old LI batterys .....pretty impressive bang :)
One guy blew up a cell phone battery by connecting it to his car battery .....so at times at least 12 V is enough to set them off.
I am sure that the flyback frm the motor you are talking about is well over 12 V
About the motor
If it is the one I am thinking about one of the windings is used to to triger the pulse .
As I understood it ........that winding was not used to capture flyback . .....it would seem to me that it would have as much flyback as the other winding
gary
Here Bill and Gary
When you short the terminals from the coils of a motor a large spark occurs - a current of strong electromotive force. That is what is accepted by his capicators as "flyback"...
Joe
Quote from: Localjoe on March 29, 2008, 06:09:55 PM
Here Bill and Gary
When you short the terminals from the coils of a motor a large spark occurs - a current of strong electromotive force. That is what is accepted by his capicators as "flyback"...
Joe
Joe
are you saying I was wrong about the flyback?
As far as I can see what you describe as flyback fits my understanding of flyback too .
My understanding is that flyback is when a magnetic field suddenly collapses it creates a spike of voltage that can sometimes be be very high.
It is my understanding that the design of the Bendini motor creates the conditions for large flyback spikes.
The point I was trying to make was that the flyback woiuld be created in both windings of the coil ..... I don't think that it is captured in the trigger coil .
gary
@gary
No i wasetn saying you were wrong just a comment.Ã, You guys should start a thread if you want to get into the bedini stuff.Ã, Alothough i like it i dont want this thread misguided by it, in the sense of straying from the end goal. ;)
Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Joe
My understanding from my reading is that this is back EMF. I am not sure what that is exactly but, maybe no one knows. Thanks for the warning about the batteries. Yes, caution is always a good thing. I just love to learn and by doing stuff, I learn....for good or bad. I can post links to videos here if anyone is interested. I still think that all of this is related in some way or another to our final goal.
Bill
Quote from: epiphany on March 29, 2008, 01:09:58 PM
@Jeanna,
I'm not clear on that. Are you proposing an excitation method using another earth battery cell? Sorry for being so dense here... :-\
Hello all i was just trying to help out with this project. take a look at this link?
http://w1tp.com/perbuild.htm
you will find out how to make a Telegraph key with a spark gap and a buzzer for this NS coil/Battery.
it's very easy to build. just hold the key down and the buzzer will work until you let up.
@Pardon,
Thanks for the link. That looks like the drawings Hans and Joe have suggested. I am glad to have a how-to. It looks like a thing I could build, if I need the outside voltage.
----------------
I went to a couple of calculation sites just now to get an idea of what the potential is for a circuit like the ones I have in my kitchen.
Since my coils max at about 400mvdc, I plugged that in. 1 ohm is what the copper in the coil is (actually 1.6 or 0.6) . It is hard to figure the henries because of having the 2 wires, so I ignored the iron wire and plugged in the copper only and that is around 63uH. I have a couple of cap sizes I could use but you will see the difference may be large but will be hard to tell. I plugged in 1uF and 10uF.
So, with all that said, the results of a simple RLC circuit (and this is not simple ;) ) look like this
Using 10 uF the
Time between sparks on my coils will be 36u seconds or 6.38KHz frequency
yielding 36 mA at the peak of the time graph which I believe is the point of the spark.
Using the 1 uF cap, the
Time between sparks on my coils will be 12.8u seconds or 20.2KHz frequency yielding
46 mA at the peak.
This is my understanding of these values. I will take all well considered corrections. ;D
Also, it is likely that having the iron wire in there etc will change all this a lot, but it is a place to start when figuring frequency of our coils.
36 or 12 micro seconds is a really short period of time. - that is the quarter wave. the full wave is 156 or 48 microseconds. - still a really fast pulse.
I do not have a coil that has a frequency of 60 Hz. To achieve that I would need this:
1800 turns on a coil with an average diameter of
1/2 inch. using
24 gauge copper wire.
(This assumes a standard RLC ciruit.)
I also saw today a pic of a spark gap made of 2 pointed pieces of copper tape (slug tape) The points were facing each other and were REALLY close to each other. the set up was made on plastic tape. It may be all we need for a spark gap.
the 2 calculation web pages are:
http://www.crystalradio.net/cal/indcal2.shtml (http://www.crystalradio.net/cal/indcal2.shtml)
and
http://www.coilgun.info/mark2/rlcsim.htm (http://www.coilgun.info/mark2/rlcsim.htm)
the page and pic of the simple spark gap is
http://www.emcesd.com/tt2001/tt060101.htm (http://www.emcesd.com/tt2001/tt060101.htm)
jeanna ;)
Quote from: Pirate88179 on March 29, 2008, 11:49:44 PM
My understanding from my reading is that this is back EMF. I am not sure what that is exactly but, maybe no one knows. Thanks for the warning about the batteries. Yes, caution is always a good thing. I just love to learn and by doing stuff, I learn....for good or bad. I can post links to videos here if anyone is interested. I still think that all of this is related in some way or another to our final goal.
Bill
Bill
There is a thread somewhere on this site about back emf and flyback.
I really like the name back emf better , but from what I understand back emf is actually the what slows down the flow of power as a coil is charging ..... If we could eliminate back emf a coil would charge instantly ...........
I agree that we really don't understand what happens when a magnetic field collapses quickly ......... and that to me makes it interesting .
I agree with Joe that we should not fill this thread up with talk that is unrelated to earth batterys ........so this is my last post here about back emf
gary
G'day all,
@one: On the contary, back emf is essential to the operation of a NS battery. It is what gives you the AC in the secondary. Back emf (electro motive force ) is the result of a collapsing magnetic field in an inductor after the current and voltage has been removed. Yes it does change the charging characteristics of the inductor, or in this case the primary bifillar, but when you approach resonance there is little impedance to the charging in either direction.
When a magnetic field collapses quickly in an inductor a voltage and current is produced in the opposite direction. It's like reclaiming the energy from the first make and break cycle.
I am happy to give a deeper explaination if you wish.
Kind regards
Ian
double post
deleted
Quote from: ian middleton on March 30, 2008, 07:04:44 AM
G'day all,
@one: On the contary, back emf is essential to the operation of a NS battery. It is what gives you the AC in the secondary. Back emf (electro motive force ) is the result of a collapsing magnetic field in an inductor after the current and voltage has been removed. Yes it does change the charging characteristics of the inductor, or in this case the primary bifillar, but when you approach resonance there is little impedance to the charging in either direction.
When a magnetic field collapses quickly in an inductor a voltage and current is produced in the opposite direction. It's like reclaiming the energy from the first make and break cycle.
I am happy to give a deeper explaination if you wish.
Kind regards
Ian
Thanks Ian
My original comment on back emf was because I was trying to follow conventions being followed by many others on this site.
Here is the thread .......the video is only a few minutes and explanes most of it.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3247.msg66761
My commment about people not really understanding it was intended as general . EE people tend to work around the voltage spilkes rather than using them to do useful work .
An example is a starter motor for a car. As far as I know they are still ONE winding . They use one winding because it creates less flyback . Flyback tends to eat the comutator . ( I don't think I am wording this right , If you take a starter apart you will find one flat conductor on each side of the rotor . The conductor is close to 1/8in thick and 1/2 in wide . ...... the current goes around this loop once . )
Because most EE people in the past have worked around the spikes rather than harvesting them I feel it is a prime area for OU reserchers
gary
@Ian
Thanks for putting my tesla comment in contex.Ã, What is interesting is that the power is self induced in this primary coil. I wonder how that effects the resistance.Ã, In theory The Primary bifilar coil is a capicator of sorts which regains its charge each time after its shorted.Ã, So in essence were just shorting the leads on a cap repeatedly.Ã, and collecting the changing flux(ac) in the secondary coil. If we were to do lc calculations im curious how i would treat the wires as a cap for one part of the equation and and inductor for the rest.Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã,Â
Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Joe
@Gary
Yes exactly it will eat the comutator unless it has a place to go ... like a cap and inductor in parallel to the motor but in series lc to eacheother
Quote from: Localjoe on March 30, 2008, 12:58:23 PM
@Ian
Thanks for putting my tesla comment in contex. What is interesting is that the power is self induced in this primary coil. I wonder how that effects the resistance. In theory The Primary bifilar coil is a capicator of sorts which regains its charge each time after its shorted. So in essence were just shorting the leads on a cap repeatedly. and collecting the changing flux(ac) in the secondary coil. If we were to do lc calculations im curious how i would treat the wires as a cap for one part of the equation and and inductor for the rest.
Joe
Joe
I am courious about what would happen if the windings were tuned to the same inductance and a cap was placed across the 10 leads,, could there be a way to make this core into a self resonating self sustaining electromagnet?
gary
@Gary
No cap is needed the wires are the cap when wound in a bifialr fashion. And all that is needed to transform this device to the "self sustaining electromagnet" it to connectet permentaly the leads 5 and 6 from the cell terminals 10 stay open and in the groun to preserve the character of the electrodes. This creates a permenate electromagnet. Not what were shooting for tho , im working on perfecting the "Self Generating Induction coil " the second device in the patent. ;D
Joe
Quote from: Localjoe on March 30, 2008, 01:23:12 PM
@Gary
No cap is needed the wires are the cap when wound in a bifialr fashion. And all that is needed to transform this device to the "self sustaining electromagnet" it to connectet permentaly the leads 5 and 6 from the cell terminals 10 stay open and in the groun to preserve the character of the electrodes. This creates a permenate electromagnet. Not what were shooting for tho , im working on perfecting the "Self Generating Induction coil " the second device in the patent. ;D
Joe
Joe
I am aware that the patent says that nothing is connected to the 10 leads to preserve the charactor of the coil ...... In my opinion that does not mean that ANYTHING that is connected to the 10 wires will change the charactor of the coil .........although I would agree that most things connected to those leads would change the nature of the coil . A cap would not be taking anything from the 10 leads ......only allowing a different flow of energy .
I am not asking anyone to do anything with these ideas ......just thinking out loud .
In general I don't like the idea of mechanical contacts . remember changing the points on a car? Electronic ignition is MUCH better.
If the electromagnet can be made to self resonate it would much more reliable than if it had a machanical contacts
My guess is that if it can be made to resonate it would have the same average voltage ..........but it would have a spike at the resonant frequency that could be used to drive the secondary .
gary
@Gary
I understand what your getting at. Some properties of this coil are different than normal for instance it has a strong magnetic feild not even moist.. jeanna found this out we dont know what to make of it yet.
Anyways I belive when the device is configured as an electromagnet it serves as a base station wireless transmitter.. Only logical conclusion after the patent states that a microphone or telegraphic relay can be hooked to the secondary terminals also states to connect permentatly wires 5 and 6 for this config .
Then a few sentences later it says that a secondary current will induced in the secondary coil when the make and break happen at terminals 5 and 6.. It describes earlier in the patent that in this con fig the terminals 5 and 6 are hooked to a device which interposes them.
These statements are contradictory unless you assume the patent describes two devices. plus on the last page in the patent you can see the two summaries second collum. Tell me what you make of this, im more than willing to chat on skype or msn if anyone wants a to chat to further this effort ;D
Joe
Quote from: Localjoe on March 30, 2008, 02:24:51 PM
@Gary
I understand what your getting at. Some properties of this coil are different than normal for instance it has a strong magnetic feild not even moist.. jeanna found this out we dont know what to make of it yet.
Anyways I belive when the device is configured as an electromagnet it serves as a base station wireless transmitter.. Only logical conclusion after the patent states that a microphone or telegraphic relay can be hooked to the secondary terminals also states to connect permentatly wires 5 and 6 for this config .
Then a few sentences later it says that a secondary current will induced in the secondary coil when the make and break happen at terminals 5 and 6.. It describes earlier in the patent that in this con fig the terminals 5 and 6 are hooked to a device which interposes them.
These statements are contradictory unless you assume the patent describes two devices. plus on the last page in the patent you can see the two summaries second collum. Tell me what you make of this, im more than willing to chat on skype or msn if anyone wants a to chat to further this effort ;D
Joe
Joe
I reread the patent early yesterday
It did make alot of difference understanding that it was about 2 different configurations of the basic coil.
The way it is worded it is not clear at all that he is actually describing 2 setups .
Great catch :)
I think Stubblefield knew there was something different about the coil .......I am not sure he could explain it.
He called it a couple a few times ......I think he was thinking along the terms of a thermocouple
I remember in one of the TPU threads someone was trying to explain that magnetic fields are attracted to iron. The concept didn't seem to go over very well . I think it is true though .
If it is true it would explain why this coil can hold a magnetic charge even when dry .
gary
Hi everybody,
I went back to those 2 calculators today, after some sleep. The problem with the numbers from last night was the resistance. I already have 1 to 1.6 ohms -NOT 100milliohms.
So I plugged in 1.5 ohms and .7V since most everyone else is getting .7 volts, and I just changed the C and L sliders.
So somewhere between
500uF-599uF and
300uH-350uH
will produce 50 - 65 Hz
I live in the US so 60Hz is the most convenient number. Since I am going through all this I figure I might as well make it easy. ;D
So, the next thing to figure is How many turns, how fat and what gauge.
So, 360 turns of 24 gauge copper over a diameter of .85 inch will give 308uH
or, 360 turns of 24 gauge copper over a diameter of 1 inch will give 423uH
I used that telephone wire along with some zinc plated iron to make those dry test coils. They fit well and 360 turns was do-able using 100 ft. It was 60 turns per layer 6 layers.
I am posting these numbers to give anyone who wants them a place to start winding.
One thing I saw on the RLC calculator is how easy it is to get to a very high frequency and how the graph goes below zero oscillations before it gets down to 60Hz very readily.
The resistance jacks the oscillation rate to the KHz range very quickly and so the fat wire that radio guy mentioned is not so hard to believe after all.
Now the only problem is to get the bolt diameter to work. .85-1 inch diameter I guess average.
I am wondering about using a piece of steel pipe then maybe filling that with iron wires or something to make a solid iron core.
@Joe and Gary,
The cap will help us tune this. In fact, I am going to look for a variable cap.
I know I said it a while ago, but I asked Hans about a spherical capacitor and he said theVandeGraf sphere is the cap part. I can easily see the sphere enclosing the terminals 10 and the spark happening inside the sphere. The sphere would keep the thing dryer and safe from movement, etc.
If we time the turns and diameter etc, we may not need an externally driven relay switch at all to make the make and break. It just might be a part of this design when it is tuned.
I urge people to play with those calculators.
One shows the Hz and Henries, the other shows the turns and wire gauge needed to produce the Henries.
jeanna
Quote from: jeanna on March 30, 2008, 03:55:58 PM
Hi everybody,
I went back to those 2 calculators today, after some sleep. The problem with the numbers from last night was the resistance. I already have 1 to 1.6 ohms -NOT 100milliohms.
So I plugged in 1.5 ohms and .7V since most everyone else is getting .7 volts, and I just changed the C and L sliders.
So somewhere between
500uF-599uF and
300uH-350uH
will produce 50 - 65 Hz
I live in the US so 60Hz is the most convenient number. Since I am going through all this I figure I might as well make it easy. ;D
So, the next thing to figure is How many turns, how fat and what gauge.
So, 360 turns of 24 gauge copper over a diameter of .85 inch will give 308uH
or, 360 turns of 24 gauge copper over a diameter of 1 inch will give 423uH
I used that telephone wire along with some zinc plated iron to make those dry test coils. They fit well and 360 turns was do-able using 100 ft. It was 60 turns per layer 6 layers.
I am posting these numbers to give anyone who wants them a place to start winding.
One thing I saw on the RLC calculator is how easy it is to get to a very high frequency and how the graph goes below zero oscillations before it gets down to 60Hz very readily.
The resistance jacks the oscillation rate to the KHz range very quickly and so the fat wire that radio guy mentioned is not so hard to believe after all.
Now the only problem is to get the bolt diameter to work. .85-1 inch diameter I guess average.
I am wondering about using a piece of steel pipe then maybe filling that with iron wires or something to make a solid iron core.
@Joe and Gary,
The cap will help us tune this. In fact, I am going to look for a variable cap.
I know I said it a while ago, but I asked Hans about a spherical capacitor and he said theVandeGraf sphere is the cap part. I can easily see the sphere enclosing the terminals 10 and the spark happening inside the sphere. The sphere would keep the thing dryer and safe from movement, etc.
If we time the turns and diameter etc, we may not need an externally driven relay switch at all to make the make and break. It just might be a part of this design when it is tuned.
I urge people to play with those calculators.
One shows the Hz and Henries, the other shows the turns and wire gauge needed to produce the Henries.
jeanna
Jeanna
From what I have been seeing in my reaserch trying to start resonance at 60 HZ might not end up being the easy way .
I see you have found some of the reasons .
If I was you and you had a few caps laying around I would check out what frequencys I could get my coil to resonate at with parts on hand .
Once resonance is achieved it is easy to use a diode bridge to charge a battery . ( Or cap ) An inverter can provide easy 60 HZ power from the battery
gary
Quotein my reaserch trying to start resonance at 60 HZ might not end up being the easy way .
I see you have found some of the reasons .
Thanks for your comments, Gary,
I am not sure I understand why I would want to fill a battery then invert it into 60 Hz when there is the opportunity to go directly to the 60 Hz. I admit to being quite naive about all of this, but as you probably can tell, I am very willing to learn.
I can easily get KHz range of frequency of oscillation with the caps I have on hand. I can also easily get 600 Hz.The voltage being produced by the galvanism of my coils is around 400 mvdc at the moment. Changing the volts is the only thing that didn't change anything in the frequency chart . (The amps went down as the volts went down.) The only big block seems to be the resistance. - It is hard to get it low enough - lower than the wire itself.
I would think I could wind the secondary to transform the power to 60Hz after it comes off the primary. So, I guess if I had it come off at 600Hz a 10:1 transformer winding would be easy enough.
Please explain why your research indicated to you that starting at 60Hz might not be the easiest way to go. Perhaps I am thinking about this the wrong way.
Thanks,
jeanna
Quote from: jeanna on March 30, 2008, 08:28:32 PM
Quotein my reaserch trying to start resonance at 60 HZ might not end up being the easy way .
I see you have found some of the reasons .
Thanks for your comments, Gary,
I am not sure I understand why I would want to fill a battery then invert it into 60 Hz when there is the opportunity to go directly to the 60 Hz. I admit to being quite naive about all of this, but as you probably can tell, I am very willing to learn.
Jeanna
one of the main reasons for storing energy in a battery like this is alot of applications are high demand for short periods of time .
Storing the power in a battery allows you to use energy stored over time in a short time period .
Quote
I can easily get KHz range of frequency of oscillation with the caps I have on hand. I can also easily get 600 Hz.The voltage being produced by the galvanism of my coils is around 400 mvdc at the moment. Changing the volts is the only thing that didn't change anything in the frequency chart . (The amps went down as the volts went down.) The only big block seems to be the resistance. - It is hard to get it low enough - lower than the wire itself.
I would think I could wind the secondary to transform the power to 60Hz after it comes off the primary. So, I guess if I had it come off at 600Hz a 10:1 transformer winding would be easy enough.
Please explain why your research indicated to you that starting at 60Hz might not be the easiest way to go. Perhaps I am thinking about this the wrong way.
Thanks,
jeanna
Both the cap and coil have to be physicaly large enough to handle the current.
lets say you want to handle 3 amps ....... the size of the cap and coil that will handle 3 amps is going to be pretty big .
Each time you raise the frequency you drop the physical size requirements .
Raising the voltage will help with the size problem too .....less with caps than coils
Finding equipment to measure very large caps and coils can be a problem too .
gary
@ Gary:
What about super caps? I have some and I can get very small ones that are 5 farad. I posted this in another topic and was told that a fared is a huge amount and I must be mistaken. I am not. I have already been using a .22 farad cap with my first earth battery experiments. It works better than a battery and will store enough juice to light my one led for over two hours after being disconnected from the cell. I have not seen any large size super caps (physical size) so I was thinking of using several 5 farad caps wired in either series or parallel. That should be a lot of power storage for me I think. what are your thoughts?
@ All:
I rescued an old mac monitor from my community dumpster this weekend and salvaged a lot of components from it. Besides the flyback transformer and a bunch of caps and resistors, I found a large amount of magnet wire near the end of the picture tube. Now here at Radio Shack (my only local electronics seller) they only sell magnet wire in spools of 25 feet. Not enough to do any of the things I want to do. I got about 200 feet from the monitor. I have read that you can't splice magnet wire when wrapping a coil. I don't understand why not as I think it could be soldered, which would melt away the enamel insulation, but that could be reapplied could it not? I will still probably have to order a large spool on-line. It looks like we are going to have plenty of uses for it.
Bill
I got my coil finished enough to test.
I still have some things to do . like cut the copper winding shorter.
I am going to try to match the inductance with the iron winding .
I am going to wait a few days ...........mostly because my thumbs hurt
:)
I learned alot about how NOT to wind a coil ....
one of the things I wanted to test is if bigger wire is better.
I used # 6 copper
I got some Iron wire for tying rebar
I made a cable with 12 strands . It was a little oversized .. I think I would use 10 strands next time .
I am thinking that larger wire has less resistance .......so the small currents generated will carry through easier .
I was shooting for a cable of iron wire about the size of the insolated copper
I wanted the iron larger because it is higher resistance , ......
I see that my voltage is low compared to others .
I think that may be in part that my outer windings are pretty loose .
If you can't read the meter the voltage I got was .54 V
The current started out at 3.55 mA
after running at least an hour it has dropped to just over 3. mA
QuoteBoth the cap and coil have to be physicaly large enough to handle the current.
lets say you want to handle 3 amps ....... the size of the cap and coil that will handle 3 amps is going to be pretty big .
Each time you raise the frequency you drop the physical size requirements .
Raising the voltage will help with the size problem too
OK Gary I guess you haven't built one yet. (OOPS you just did. Bravo!)
Most of us are reading micro amps and nobody gets more than .7 vdc on the
dc part of this item.
I appreciate your comments, though and will tuck them away for when too much amperage might be a problem. ;D
@Bill,
I have been using a supercap too (just to collect the charge so I can measure it accurately.), but I think the other regular kind are better, or will soon be better for an oscillating effect because we need it to pick up and dump the charge quickly.
Ususlly this is done with a resistor to sort of guide the charge. In the case of the numbers I was looking at today, I think I will try to skip it and hope that works.
You do have one don't you? That monitor probably has some. I just got a nice capacitor from a small thrift store radio. (cheap thrills. ;D )
jeanna
Another idea I was testing was Aethers core idea
I chose to use painted iron wires for the core instead of a solid iron core.
The idea is to reduce the losses from eddy currents .
This is a picture of the core .
The length is 4 3/4 the diameter turned out to be 7/8 in ............ same size as a quarter.
I didn't count the wires . ....
I would have used a smaller core ............but didn't think I could get the wire to bend that much.
Quote from: jeanna on March 31, 2008, 01:23:23 AM
QuoteBoth the cap and coil have to be physicaly large enough to handle the current.
lets say you want to handle 3 amps ....... the size of the cap and coil that will handle 3 amps is going to be pretty big .
Each time you raise the frequency you drop the physical size requirements .
Raising the voltage will help with the size problem too
OK Gary I guess you haven't built one yet. (OOPS you just did. Bravo!)
Most of us are reading micro amps and nobody gets more than .7 vdc on the
dc part of this item.
I appreciate your comments, though and will tuck them away for when too much amperage might be a problem. ;D
Jeana
the 3 amps was just I number I picked ........ I know it is not possable at this time .
Personally the only reason I can see to design it to run at 60 HZ would be if you had enough power to run something you would normaly plug in .
60 Hz for "battery " power levels doesn't make much sense to me.
gary
All the insilation in my battery is fiberglass drywall joint tape
when expermenting with winding the copper I noticed that the sticky stuff tends to smear .. so I would it sticky side out.
It still stays put pretty well .......and is relativly durable.
I tried to progress 1/4 in per turn when winding . giving me 4 or 5 layers
Gary,
I think your voltage is more like mine. It is because you used iron wire that is all iron. Copper and iron are pretty close on the galvanic scale. (I think there is a word for that scale???)
The folks who are getting 0.7v are using zinc galvanized iron for wire.
The jury is still out on that one.
It is great to have another builder here, welcome welcome.
jeanna
from your next post:
I agree it only makes sense to make 60Hz only with enough power. I was working on the tuning angle since that was a new bit of learning for me.
Quote from: Pirate88179 on March 31, 2008, 12:50:02 AM
@ Gary:
What about super caps? I have some and I can get very small ones that are 5 farad. I posted this in another topic and was told that a fared is a huge amount and I must be mistaken. I am not. I have already been using a .22 farad cap with my first earth battery experiments. It works better than a battery and will store enough juice to light my one led for over two hours after being disconnected from the cell. I have not seen any large size super caps (physical size) so I was thinking of using several 5 farad caps wired in either series or parallel. That should be a lot of power storage for me I think. what are your thoughts?
@ All:
I rescued an old mac monitor from my community dumpster this weekend and salvaged a lot of components from it. Besides the flyback transformer and a bunch of caps and resistors, I found a large amount of magnet wire near the end of the picture tube. Now here at Radio Shack (my only local electronics seller) they only sell magnet wire in spools of 25 feet. Not enough to do any of the things I want to do. I got about 200 feet from the monitor. I have read that you can't splice magnet wire when wrapping a coil. I don't understand why not as I think it could be soldered, which would melt away the enamel insulation, but that could be reapplied could it not? I will still probably have to order a large spool on-line. It looks like we are going to have plenty of uses for it.
Bill
A super cap would be great for storing energy on a small scale .........and probably be alot better for proving OU .
As long as it has a battery connected some people will think that it is running off the battery .
How much are they asking for those 5 F supercaps?
I have never seen anyone try to splice a piece of magnet wire in and wrap it into a coil .................but you can always run both ends outside the coil to connect them .
If anyone asks what the extra wires are for .........you can tell them it is a center tap just in case you need one later
:)
gary
Quote from: jeanna on March 31, 2008, 01:49:47 AM
Gary,
I think your voltage is more like mine. It is because you used iron wire that is all iron. Copper and iron are pretty close on the galvanic scale. (I think there is a word for that scale???)
The folks who are getting 0.7v are using zinc galvanized iron for wire.
The jury is still out on that one.
It is great to have another builder here, welcome welcome.
jeanna
from your next post:
I agree it only makes sense to make 60Hz only with enough power. I was working on the tuning angle since that was a new bit of learning for me.
Jeanna
So I guess that my numbers come pretty close to others here??
I have noticed that if I connected and let it run a while the current drops and the voltage rises
it started at 3.55 mA after a couple hours it was down to 2.45 mA
Then I changed the meter to voltage . it started at .53 V it has been about a half hour , it is at .63 V now
Also the water is turning orange . is this stuff normal ??
The resonance part is new to me too ...........but that is a direction I want to explore
radiant energy resonance and flyback are the areas I am interested in .
gary
@ One:
Just for the record, I am getting .9 vdc and 30 mA from my two layer NS coil. (Primary windings only) I used bare iron wire (per the patent) and bare copper wire (per the patent). The only thing in my set-up that is zinc coated is the iron core. I used this only because with my magnet tests in the store, this was the only thing that had a huge amount of iron in it. I used cotton cloth to insulate the core from the windings, and cotton string to separate the iron from the copper. I believe it is important to use cotton as said in the patent. Why? At this point I don't know but those that have used cotton are all getting similar numbers and those using plastic or fiberglass are getting much less. Someone on here, sorry I can't recall who, was getting like 80 mA and they also used cotton. I also covered the outside of my second layer in cotton as well.
I'll check on the 5F supercaps cost. I have not bought any yet but someplace I have bookmarked a supplier of them. Good idea on the splicing outside the winding...thanks.
I think the color you are seeing might be rust. (oxidation) My cotton has turned a bit brown from this as well. I think it might be possible to use insulated iron wire but have not tested that yet.
@ Jeanna:
Yes, I have all kinds of regular caps from salvage efforts. I have a large tupperware container that I keep all of them in. there were many in that monitor, and a little while ago, I salvaged an old color tv and got a bunch of components from that as well. With the price radio shack charges for this stuff, it was like finding free money in the dumpster! My friend also saved me a capacitor that is the size of a beer can. This was from his old heat and air unit. I have no idea what the rating on it is but he said it was enough to kill a person (hopefully not me) so that sounded pretty big to me.
Bill
@Gary Great work Bud !
Bill is right i stressed the cotton / fabric insul for a reason. It speifically says it in the patent and has to be able to be saturated in water yet insulate the metal, possibly let the ions pass from wire to wire not sure but cloth insulation is a deff.. mines somewheres around a volt .8 sometimes 1.2sometimes and upwards of 20 ma. We all just ran out of wire early after finding the proper design.. must have been excitement. but our goal for the primary is not high voltage just a good current punch and as weve seen from others results the voltage will peak aroudn 1 v or so and the current will still go up wtih more surface area. ;D So theres a few tips to help you get yours producing well.
again great work,
Joe
Quote from: Pirate88179 on March 31, 2008, 11:16:32 AM
@ One:
Just for the record, I am getting .9 vdc and 30 mA from my two layer NS coil. (Primary windings only) I used bare iron wire (per the patent) and bare copper wire (per the patent). The only thing in my set-up that is zinc coated is the iron core. I used this only because with my magnet tests in the store, this was the only thing that had a huge amount of iron in it. I used cotton cloth to insulate the core from the windings, and cotton string to separate the iron from the copper. I believe it is important to use cotton as said in the patent. Why? At this point I don't know but those that have used cotton are all getting similar numbers and those using plastic or fiberglass are getting much less. Someone on here, sorry I can't recall who, was getting like 80 mA and they also used cotton. I also covered the outside of my second layer in cotton as well.
I'll check on the 5F supercaps cost. I have not bought any yet but someplace I have bookmarked a supplier of them. Good idea on the splicing outside the winding...thanks.
I think the color you are seeing might be rust. (oxidation) My cotton has turned a bit brown from this as well. I think it might be possible to use insulated iron wire but have not tested that yet.
Bill
One reason that I used fiberglass is because it is what I had .
I didn't want to mess with stips of old t shirts or anything like that.
I wanted a way that I could apply the insulation then wind the coil.
My gut feeling about all this is that it is not as much about the type if insulation but the thickness of it .
On that coil that you mentioned did he use THIN cotton? Was the coil wound nice and tight?
As far as I can tell magnet wire is used for making coils and electromagnets becuase it is covered with a very thin insulation . because of that thin insulation you can get windings per inch .
As I said ..........this is my gut feeling ...... If there is evidence from from other coils that I am wrong I would like to hear about it .
I did think of one way to apply insulation to the thinner wires .
Sewing it on.
A sewing machine set on zig zag should work great . it would leave a lump on each edge ........
You would need some guides to keep the wire in between where the needle is going .
There might be a problem getting the wire directly over the piece that drags the cloth back a little with each stroke,.
With the right set up you would just have to straiten out the wire and stomp on the gas
Also the type of insulation you could apply would only be limited to the kinds of thread you can find .
So far it looks to me like wire size is not that important ........and large wire makes things alot more difficult and expensive .
The wire I used was alot thicker than most here use .... it didn't seem to make much difference
I agree that the orange color is probably rust . My iron wire is starting to look a little orange
gary
@gary
Yes we have confirmed the cloth once again. The audio stores sell it i'll search online again but they sell the stuffon a spool and its a mini fabric tube that slides on the wire so basically the same as sewing just alot lsess time.. As well ive built a few of theses so far probably 4 and tested diff insulation tightness wire gauge thickness. Here is the consensus the size wires your using are good Bigger the better it seems. Magnet wire will be used for the secondary. The primary needs large wires like we have not small, i had someting similar to 8 stand rebar tie wire abou the diameter of a bic pen and romex bare copper wire from houshold leftovers.
Joe
@ One:
I understand about using what you had lying about, I do that all the time myself. I also agree that wrapping cotton around the wire must be a real pain. I did not do that. My way deviates from the patent but seems to work thus far. I insulate the core with a cotton sleeve sewn from a sock or T shirt, then wrap one layer in bifilar style, nice and tight. Then, I took cotton string or cord and wound that in between the copper and iron wires, this has to be done twice as there are two sides to insulate. You just simply wind the string as you had just wound the wires. Then, another cotton insulation between the next layer, and repeat. I don't think the string was my idea, someone on here posted it and, yes, I had some lying about so, I used it. It is nowhere as thin as the enamel would be on magnet wire, but way thinner than wire wrapped with cotton strips would be. But, just beware that this is a deviation from the patent and might have a bad effect later on down the road. I have no idea what that might be, but then, I still don't really know why this works in the first place so I am not qualified to recommend any deviation.
Joe is right about the cotton though, there may be something happening with the wet cotton that is a large part of this phenomenon that we, or even mainstream science does not know about. The guy with the large Ma readings used cotton I am pretty sure. It was, of course, a huge coil (especially compared to mine) and as we suspected, more surface area equals more power. (Ma.) This also fits in with your gut feeling about tight windings, they would give more surface area of wire per inch, so that is consistent with our findings here. I think it was Hans who said he believed the iron wire could be insulated as in "normal" modern wire. That would make things easier but I don't know how he knew that or if it was just speculation. Hans has a lot of good information on many subjects so he is probably right, but I am not sure as I have never tried that.
I agree with Joe's approach in that if we all stick to the patent, at least in the beginning, and achieve similar results, then we can establish a baseline from which deviation can take place, but at least we know we can go back to what worked. I know one of his concerns is that, someone new coming in here that has not read all of the previous posts, and who could blame them, might see one of our deviation ideas and think that is how everyone is building the coils and then when it does not work for them, they will not be happy and think we are idiots. I don't know about you, but I have been trying to hide the fact that I am an idiot my entire life. Sometimes with limited success. Ha ha.
Bill
Thanks Bill and Joe
Would it be possable to find a way to keep the current information in one place ?
A forum like this is good for talking about what you are doing. but it sucks as a way to store information.
I wanted to find some readings that others have taken from their coils .
I went through 2 pages of posts before I found one post with readings .
I just didn't have time to look for more .
WHat about if we all kept a file of our current info and posted it at or near the top of even numbered pages ?
I think we are on page 43 now ....... there are 40 posts per page .
Joe could put his primer with his info ........ all anyone would need to do to get caught up is to go back to the last even numbered page and start reading ............80 posts max
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sorry if I am not a good follower
I do respect the work all of you have already done
But I am an expermenter ......... when I get both of my brain cells working at the same time I like to go with what they come up with .
:)
gary
Good idea about the most recent readings.Maybe we could get them to Joe somehow and he could post them on the very first post of his that started the thread. ??? ???
I was thinking of making a really big and fat one today, but now, I think I will make one like my others but with cotton cloth rather than silk. The one that I made with surgical tape because it is porous and nylon works very badly, and I think the cloth does matter. NS only said cloth, My copy does not say cotton. I was just wrapping 1-2 feet ahead then winding. It worked OK.
I am glad to hear others have made more than one coil too. :D
QuoteBut I am an expermenter .........
I guess you are in the right place! :D :D
off to the store,
jeanna
@ All:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWnMReMXq5Q (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWnMReMXq5Q)
Above is a link to a new earth battery video I just found on youtube. It is using two electrodes and a long wire. Not what we are working on now but interesting none the less. Thought you might want to see it.
@Jeanna and One:
I thought about this for a while now. I was thinking of opening a related topic where we could repost our schematics and photos only. I think a topic for just the things you mentioned would be a good idea as well. This way, a person could get up to speed much faster than reading all of the old posts from the beginning, which most will not do. (who has the time?) The only problem with this would be that, the topic could easily be over run with non applicable posts, ie a topic for drawings only might very well end up with a lot of discussions and I don't think one could prevent that totally. I would hva started a topic for that but I did not want to take away from this one or confuse anyone.
Bill
@all
ok i wound my secondary and thought id do a quick test by shorting wires 5 & 6 to see what happend in the secondary, well sure enough there was a small amount of voltage produced!, ok now as i could only get bare copper wire in 15 foot lengths i could only do one layer at a time and join all the bottoms of all the copper wire together....i did the same with the iron wire aswell, now when i shorted the top iron wire with the bottom copper wire the voltage produced was still pretty small but at least 10 times stronger than when i shorted the 5 & 6 that were both on top of the coil.
I dont know if all the primarys that are built this way will react the same or it may just be mine :D
I know my description is alittle hazey at best so i could do a quick drawing to show you what i mean if need be.
Hi @ all I have been reading this entire discussion and I am fascinated with the experimentation and replication of the Stubblefield Coil that everyone is working on. There was a video that Bill posted on you tube where this guy said he hook up a battery to the Earth battery ran two loads and the battery did not run down. I believed two people tried to replicate it but it did not work. I can be wrong because I know next to nothing about electronics, but what I think he did was hook the load to the + side of his battery and the ? side to the earth battery and the other load to the ? side of his battery and the + side to the earth battery. I wish I could build a Stubblefield Coil also and try this experiment myself right now, but it will take sometime before I can. I hope my two cents helps a little and I can?t wait to build one for myself.
Kevin
kevolts:
Welcome to our little group. Yes, I remember the video. I attempted to contact that guy several times with no luck. I too tried his arrangement, well, sort of, I did not have rechargeable bats so maybe I didn't really try it. It did not work for me the way I did it but I will try it the right way soon. Too many experiments, too little funding. Check out the latest video I just posted a link to a few posts back. This would be a simple, cheap way to get involved. I invited that guy to our group as well. He used a 60 foot wire and two electrodes and got about1 volt. It still blows my mind that there is all this energy just waiting out there and hardly anyone knows about it.
Bill
Well Chad it sounds to me like a parallel set of wires? This will be interesting, please report the voltages etc when it is wet etc.
On my way out to get this tie wire stuff, I stuck my favorite coil into the ground. It is a 12 inch iron stake with 3 1/2 layers of copper and iron. There is no zinc on this one. Fabric is silk.
Inside it gets around 250mvdc.
I stuck it in the ground up to where the coils begin. I put a supercap across the 5,6 to see what it would collect and left.
I returned about an hour later. (In the kitchen the cap fills up in 2 or 3 minutes - this was plenty of time)
Instead of around 250mvdc I only collected 74mvdc ! (This is also what the dmm reading was across the 10's with the cap in place.)
I took the cap off and took a reading of the NS coil in the ground. Now it was 185mvdc.and slowly rising.
This means to me that the ground is sucking the voltage that the coil is producing. Or something along those lines, like the mag field of the earth is in conflict with the coil...
Next, I took a wire lead that is still connected to carbon rods only 20 inches away from where this NS coil is in the ground, and touched the copper 5 terminal and the reading across the 10's jumped tp 315-330mvdc. then the reading went down to 250 when I let go of the carbon lead (like the amount I get inside before it went into the ground).
I didn't report any of this in my kitchen test, but I did a similar test inside on dry wires and the result is similar.
Once again, with the stake in the ground and a lead from a distant carbon probe in the ground, the reading across the 10's was enhanced (by close to 200mvdc.)
whadayathinkathat?
jeanna
@jeanna
yes you are correct about the wires being parralel.. i was a little lazy in its description sorry, my cell is a 9 inch by 3/4 inch steel bolt with 4 layers of bifilar windings of copper and iron wire.
Brief description of my cell
Readings after 2 days of cell being buried
.564 vdc
14ma
winding my primary
i would cover the bolt with a layer of tightly woven cotton fabric then secure it with tiny amount of tape then wind the copper wire down the length of the bolt leaving an even space between the coils (around 3mm) then i would cover the winding totaly with a new layer of tightly woven cotton fabric, then i would wind the iron between the copper coils were i had left the 3mm gap, then i would repeat this process, i know its not like the patent but i had to improvise and it seems to work as expected.
I connected the secondary wires to my meter and shorted the 5 & 6 wires repeatdly and the voltage went from 0 mvac to 143mvac the faster i shorted them the higher the reading was (cell buried during testing).
The testing goes on.
Chad.
Thanks Bill It?s good to see people trying and getting some power from the earth, the best part is it is 24/7 and can be hook up in series, it just takes a lot of land to separate each pair, and hopefully the NS coil will solve that problem. I think someone had a rechargeable battery and hooked up the + and ? of their battery to the earth battery and then ran the load from their battery. But what I think the guy did was split the ? and + of the two loads between his battery and the earth battery. I have to go shopping this weekend for some wire, magnesium, and some carbon, or some copper and zinc, also a voltmeter and a compass. I will try the rods first before I move on to the NS coil.
@ Chad:
I follow your description except for how many turns you have on your secondary? I think that is what is holding a lot of us up at this point because you need a bunch of magnet wire for the secondary....and all one piece. I have read 1,000 turns and also 3,000 turns, etc.) I believe Joe did kind of what you did with a manual make/break just to see if any ac and he also was reading some. Once we can make/break this at reasonable frequencies, I believe we will see hundreds of vac if not in the thousands. I am not there yet, but almost ready to begin.
Bill
Quote from: jeanna on March 31, 2008, 02:23:17 PM
Good idea about the most recent readings.Maybe we could get them to Joe somehow and he could post them on the very first post of his that started the thread. ??? ???
I
QuoteBut I am an expermenter .........
I guess you are in the right place! :D :D
off to the store,
jeanna
Jenna
I don't think it would be fair to expect Joe or any one person to do it each time .
I also don't think it would be practical to try to make sure it is the first post of the page. .......no one wants to watch the thread to see when it is time to post .
I think if each builder kept a file of the basics that he or she was working with .... like wire size readinngs taken and what you are doing different
If the goal was to have each copy and paste our file to the thread at specific places ....... could be odd pages or even pages ..or multiples of 5 ....... even if everyone forgot on a particular page ......... you would always kinow where to look for info ...........any info that someone thinks may be useful could be posted there ....
gary
Quote from: Pirate88179 on March 31, 2008, 02:53:02 PM
@Jeanna and One:
I thought about this for a while now. I was thinking of opening a related topic where we could repost our schematics and photos only. I think a topic for just the things you mentioned would be a good idea as well. This way, a person could get up to speed much faster than reading all of the old posts from the beginning, which most will not do. (who has the time?) The only problem with this would be that, the topic could easily be over run with non applicable posts, ie a topic for drawings only might very well end up with a lot of discussions and I don't think one could prevent that totally. I would hva started a topic for that but I did not want to take away from this one or confuse anyone.
Bill
Bill
We can't control what others will post in a new thread
Many forums provide the ability to select modorators for seperate threads . If this board can do that Stephan is not using that capability .
Also ..... you never know when an interaction will spark a brilliant idea ........even skeptics have been known to cause others to have an AH HA moment once in a while :)
gary
Quote from: Pirate88179 on March 31, 2008, 08:33:07 PM
@ Chad:
I follow your description except for how many turns you have on your secondary? I think that is what is holding a lot of us up at this point because you need a bunch of magnet wire for the secondary....and all one piece. I have read 1,000 turns and also 3,000 turns, etc.) I believe Joe did kind of what you did with a manual make/break just to see if any ac and he also was reading some. Once we can make/break this at reasonable frequencies, I believe we will see hundreds of vac if not in the thousands. I am not there yet, but almost ready to begin.
Bill
It seems to me that what works will work on other scales
Why not keep things small for a while .
If you can induce a few volts in a seconday around a small coil ....... THEN it is time to start scaling it up .
make a mistake on a big coil .....it could be a big mistake . $ $ $
It is kind of hard to make a big mistake on a small coil
gary
duplicate post
Chad,
I like your method of laying the cloth down and squeezing the wire into place between the windings.
I think you have a very different coil here. The rest of ours are wound similarly and we have a diversity of results. Adding this to the mix is probably good for later. Is there no way you can make one with the windings wound like ours?
We have , I think, decided to wind down then up the coil which is unusual enough. There is reason to believe this should be checked out before we go and wind the primary in a parallel way.
Please try to wind one like the rest so there is some way to compare/contrast your results.
-----
With that said, I went out to repeat this morning's weirdness. And unfortunately, I did.
I'm gonna try to make it really clear.
First everything except the NS coil has been in the ground for a couple of months or more.
There is a copper stick - a wire that is 1/4 inch thick.
A copper pipe pounded about 6 inches in the ground. And right next to that pipe is
A bunch of carbon rods tied and soldered together with a copper wire soldered to them as a lead.
The copper stick is about 30 inches away from the copper pipe/carbon rods.
In between I stuck my primary NS coil down to where the coil part begins. (It is moist)
the voltage readings across the controls are:
5 mvdc - cu stick to cu pipe
94mvdc- cu stick to C rods
the voltage readings across the 10's are:
235mvdc - 25uA -> 14uA - Cu10 - Fe10 (leads of NS coil)
355mvdc - 9uA - Cu10 - to cu stick
435mvdc - 15uA - Cu10 - to Carbon rods
Added a supercap between the Cu5,Fe6 and continued to measure across the 10's
the voltage readings across the 10's are:
631mvdc - 13uA Cu10 - to Carbon rods
Remove cap and reading drops to
187 mvdc 10cu - 10Fe
( perhaps this is because the sun is setting and the temp is dropping or the coil is drying.)
Then the really weird part. The supercap only contains 6 mv
As I was writing this I thought I must have made a mistake so, I just repeated it. The readings are slightly different but basically about the same. With the boost from the carbon rods the voltage across the 10cu and the C rods was 697vdc and the super cap only reads 14 mv.
If I do the same boosting thing but connect across the Fe10 to the C rods the voltage is 580vdc. 100mv less than from the cu10.
So, all the weird stuff aside for later or for enquiring minds and thoughts, the voltage on my coil outside today was
189mvdc where inside it was
268mvdc.
jeanna
;D ;D
Gary
QuoteI think if each builder kept a file of the basics that he or she was working with .... like wire size readinngs taken and what you are doing different
I can easily do that. I only need to go into my own past posts to get all of it.
I have kept records in a text file as well. It is easy enough. I can post it but it will take up a lot of room, maybe I could post the dates of the results posts.
In fact I think this is a good idea for all of us. I hear folks refer to posts I think I missed.
jeanna
@ One:
But how many windings did you have on your secondary? I am not talking about building a big one just yet, but I believe the patent calls for what is, to me anyway, a large number of windings on the secondary. That is why I asked how many you have. I have some magnet wire here salvaged from a monitor which is about 200 feet or so and I can use that. I don't/won't know how many windings that will be until I do it. As you said, whatever that turns out to be will at least be something to start with.
@ Jeanna:
I don't understand why you are not getting better results as in higher volts and mA's. Especially when you tied into your other electrodes as well. This is curious. It should be about 1 volt and, depending on the size, 20-80 mA's. Did you wet the soil when placing it into the ground? Or was your coil still "wet" from a good soaking? I think I read that, at first, NS would water his earth battery garden to get it started. Maybe the soil there is too dry? I also do not understand the business with the caps. This makes no sense to me but, what do I know. Maybe someone else can explain this to us. I never did check my super cap for amps only volts. I probably should have. We will get this figured out.
Bill
Hi All,
Has any one tried duplicating Snow's patent on how to stack cell's in the earth to up the voltage.
http://patimg1.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid=00155209&homeurl=http%3A%2F%2Fpatft.uspto.gov%2Fnetacgi%2Fnph-Parser%3FSect1%3DPTO1%2526Sect2%3DHITOFF%2526d%3DPALL%2526p%3D1%2526u%3D%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25252Fsrchnum.htm%2526r%3D1%2526f%3DG%2526l%3D50%2526s1%3D0155209.PN.%2526OS%3DPN%2F0155209%2526RS%3DPN%2F0155209&PageNum=&Rtype=&SectionNum=&idkey=NONE&Input=View+first+page
Thanks Vince :)
Hi Bill,
Quote from: Pirate88179 on March 31, 2008, 10:34:22 PM
@ Jeanna:
I don't understand why you are not getting better results as in higher volts and mA's. Especially when you tied into your other electrodes as well. This is curious. It should be about 1 volt and, depending on the size, 20-80 mA's.
All the components of this coil are galvanically very close. It has only iron and copper which gives about 20 or 30 mv when just using the 2 of them. even in salt water. The presence of zinc makes it go to .7v and above.
QuoteDid you wet the soil when placing it into the ground? Or was your coil still "wet" from a good soaking?
It has been raining and snowing here. Today was the first day with 3 hours of sun in 2 weeks! But it is not inside the soil just the stake up to the point where the coil begins. I wetted the coil before I went out.
I have no secondary for this one and I want to make that before I dig it into the soil. I don't want the dirt to be in the way yet.
QuoteI also do not understand the business with the caps.
Nor, do I . The reason to put a cap across the 5 and 6 is to see what is going on without the added input of the meter. It doesn't actually allow current to go past its own fill point so it is not really like a short of the wires there. Does this make sense?
QuoteI never did check my super cap for amps only volts.
Me either.
QuoteWe will get this figured out.
And we will have fun learning about it. Have you thought about how much you have learned since September? I am very happy with all this. :D
jeanna
I want to bring this forward. this following is from 3 posts of the past that were at the very beginning. When I didn't even know that cu and fe were close to each other galvanically.
Quote:It was too stormy here all day and when it cleared I put a piece of rebar and a 10 " by 2 " copper plate into the surface of the ground (no deeper than 1"). they were sort of N-S and I got a steady .16V sometimes and a cycling from .18V to 0 . Then I connected between the copper plate and the the shovel I had propped up next to the rebar and got a very steady .18V. I guess the shovel has a lot more surface area than the rebar. This is too low. but I am encouraged to keep going. The day was ending and I could barely read my multimeter inside the shed.
Then Bill replied:
QuoteConsidering the galvanic differences in your metals you should/could have produced .40 volts
on another day I posted this:
Cu > rebar 0.13v
Cu > Zn 0.6v (galvanized 10 penny nail)
Cu > graphite 0.24v (carpenter's pencil - what a great idea, bill)
graphite > Zn 0.9v
I think there is very low salt content in my soil. My soil is silt and rocks. Glacial till it is called.
I will see this summer on my mountain retreat where the pH is 10 and the soil is full of CaCo3 and sand.
meantime, I am accustomed to low readings and I just compare my readings with mine, no anyone else's.
I hope this clears up some random questions,
jeanna
Quote from: jeanna on March 31, 2008, 10:14:46 PM
Gary
QuoteI think if each builder kept a file of the basics that he or she was working with .... like wire size readinngs taken and what you are doing different
I can easily do that. I only need to go into my own past posts to get all of it.
I have kept records in a text file as well. It is easy enough. I can post it but it will take up a lot of room, maybe I could post the dates of the results posts.
In fact I think this is a good idea for all of us. I hear folks refer to posts I think I missed.
jeanna
The extra space might be a problem ...... I know Stephen has already made some changes to limit bandwidth
gary
Quote from: Pirate88179 on March 31, 2008, 10:34:22 PM
@ One:
But how many windings did you have on your secondary? I am not talking about building a big one just yet, but I believe the patent calls for what is, to me anyway, a large number of windings on the secondary. That is why I asked how many you have. I have some magnet wire here salvaged from a monitor which is about 200 feet or so and I can use that. I don't/won't know how many windings that will be until I do it. As you said, whatever that turns out to be will at least be something to start with.
Bill
I still along way from doing a secondary
I need a get the electromagnet part of the inductive coil right . before I even think about a secondary
gary
@bill
there are 4000 turns of 28g wire on the secondary.
This is one of the reasons i believe that you here the description of the cell being plant pot sized, the primary may just be 5 layers or so but its the sheer amount of secondary windings that give it its bulky description.
@jeanna
as ive built my cell in paralell i believe this is why i am having to short the bottom iron wire on the cell with the top copper wire on the cell to see the best results.
Im in the process of obtaining more bare copper wire, il leave the first cell in the ground and take periodic readings and get to work on a simple make and break in my spare time.
Il get to work on a cell thats described in the patent, i have about 9lbs of 28g copper wire for the secondary so il put all this on and see what we get.
I didnt have the funds at the time to buy material to make a cell like the one in the patent so i had to improvise a little.
Chad.
Cool Note,
I left my copper rod in the ground all winter its a good 5or 6 feet long and its had the weirdest effect. It seems the snow has melted arounnd it in a bout a 5 foot diameter circle, i mean thres a foot or so less snow there compared to the rest of the lawn, wierd right?
@ Joe:
I have observed the same thing with my electrodes out in the garden. When it snowed, there was about an 8" dia. circle around the positive electrodes where the snow was melted away. This means there is heat, and to produce heat means....yes...ENERGY! Remember my story about me putting a load on the cells and earthworms flying out of the ground? A lot going on under the ground out there. Still no word from Hans, I really hope he is ok.
@ One:
Sorry, I guess I did not understand your post a while back. I thought you said you were pulsing the primary to see what you would get on the secondary. My error. I am just very interested in what will happen when we all wrap secondaries and begin the pulse attempts.
@ Chad:
Thanks. I remember it seemed like a large number to me when I first read it. 4,000 turns is still a large number. I was going to attempt to calculate the length of the wire (magnet) needed but it is not so easy to do. We have a starting outside diameter of X which using pi we can figure how much wire is used per turn but, X increases with each layer and then requires more and more wire to do each turn. I guess we could figure in the diameter of the magnet wire and see how much larger the coil dia. is getting per layer but, that would assume perfect layering and winding with no overlap. If anyone has a good idea how to figure this, I am all ears. (I think Spock said that once) I would hate to think I had enough wire only to run out halfway through.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on April 01, 2008, 01:17:50 PM
. If anyone has a good idea how to figure this, I am all ears. (I think Spock said that once) I would hate to think I had enough wire only to run out halfway through.
Bill
Hi Bill,
I think this is what calculus does well. I don't remember how to work a dif. or int equation, so that's not happening here. But this ought to work:
Use 3 or 4 diameters (lets say 4) and work out what the circumference of one circle in that diameter is. This is the length of wire needed to go around that one wind. then multiply that length by the number of winds possible in an inch of that
then multiply times the length/inches of the coil.
Do this for each layer then add them all up.
If you then divide by 4 you will have a kind of average length of wire for each layer.
Multiply this average by the number of layers.
Add another half length and you ought to be close enough to buy the right quantity.
I hear folks talking about pounds of wire not length so you (we ;)) may need to calculate the weight somewhere along the way too.
If this doesn't make enough sense, I will try again, so please tell me if you want to hear another version. ;)
jeanna
PS. Joe and Bill,
That is really cool about the copper melting the snow. (Maybe that is the real reason copper used to be used in roof flashing, to keep the ice at a minimum.)
@jenna
You could also measure the length of your wire, take a set ammt record that length gauge ect. Use the coil calc to get the MH inductance and then make a proportion for a larger wire size
set length x
-------------- = -----------------------------------------------------
set inductance desired inductance for desired freq
Joe
Quote from: Localjoe on April 01, 2008, 03:05:09 PM
Joe
Hi Joe,
I think I was answering a different question.
I thought Bill was trying to figure how much wire he would need to buy after he figured how many winds and layers to turn.
Perhaps, I misunderstood his question. sorry.
Oh wait, maybe this is what you are answering too. I am not sure, because the diameter changes each time you add a layer and so pi times that makes the number grow a lot faster than a simple proportion.
I think what you are suggesting here will only work for one layer.
jeanna
@jeanna
yea your right same question, i was just thinking down a future path. It would be advantageous after inital models to wind the primary coils to a set inductance that way we can calc freq easliy when the time comes. I figured it a step in the right direction.. The diameter shouldnt matter in the end just the inductance calculation for the freq. ;) :) IF we go the relay way, if we use a rotary spark gap powered seperatly all this becomes in concenquencial after we secure a viable ammt of current in the primary becuase that would set the freq a diff way.
Joe
Quote from: jeanna on March 31, 2008, 05:07:30 PM
This means to me that the ground is sucking the voltage that the coil is producing. Or something along those lines, like the mag field of the earth is in conflict with the coil...
Jenna
My gut feeling about this is that you didn't choose a " good " location
It would be interesting if you could try a few other locations .
I remember reading somewhere about Stubblefield connecting large wires to tree roots
and something about under large oak trees being a preferred spot
gary
Quote from: one on April 01, 2008, 03:51:44 PM
My gut feeling about this is that you didn't choose a " good " location
It would be interesting if you could try a few other locations .
gary
OK Gary,
I guess you got me to critical mass.
I checked 3 new spots. They are all a little different and none very much 15mv the most from the usual spot.
There is a test I do but don't report which is I put the cu 5 wire onto the head of the spike in the ground and continue to read the 10's. The voltage changes. .
Now, in my regular spot this action makes the voltage drop to 0 then maybe -3 or -6 mvdc. strange, I thought but maybe just a meter thing.
In one of the spots that I just tried (I have a geodesic dome frame there) this voltage drop goes all the way to -38mvdc!!!
Now that is NOT a meter thing.
What I think we are missing by just checking the 10's is the spike in the ground.
I think this spike is a very important part of the whole invention. It is insulated with insulation that according to the wording
could be different from the cloth around the cu wire.
This opinion is what gave rise to the idea to see if touching a copper stake or carbon rods a distance from the original coil would have much effect.
The fact that it did, makes me think even more that this is important. It added to my total voltage yesterday by a good bit.
Shorting the 5,6 takes away the voltage all the way to zero if you leave them shorted.
Using a supercap does almost the same thing as shorting but not completely.. (BTW I checked to make sure I had not blown up the cap. I had not.)
This is a pretty good list of interesting properties to check out.
Please someone with a working coil do the replication thing here. I am willing to stand forth with a new idea, but since this is a new idea forum, please, folks, feel free to join me.
Does anybody with a working coil have an oscilloscope? That instrument may tell the tale here.
Bruce??
Jeanna
Quote from: jeanna on April 01, 2008, 07:01:20 PM
Does anybody with a working coil have an oscilloscope? That instrument may tell the tale here.
Bruce??
Jeanna
Jenna
It is interesting that you asked this question
I received the answer to this question earlier today just beofore 3 PM eastern time
It was addressed to you ..........but it was emailed to me for some reason.
Quote
Hello Jenna,
This is a very long email, please bear with me for someone who you have not heard from before, but I have posted 1time.
I am electricme, I live in Australia and have been following the group you are in, looking at NS earth cells, very interresting indeed.
I have decided to contact you because you seem to be the person who has the most consisted posts in this forum and I wouldn't mind putting my 2 cents worth in.
Up to today, I have been measuring my own project using 2 DMM meters but as I see, no one seems to have done any measurements using an "OSCILLOPE" I had better get my behind into gear and start the ball rolling.
Most people don't have a CRO, so I recommend everyone that is on this forum go out and invest in one, they range from "giveaways (rarely like mine) to very expensive items, but Dick Smith Electroniucs in Australia has a very basic model going at a very cheep price, I might get one this weekend, to verify my initial readings. (E-Bay might have them also)
Jenna, today I fired up the old B&W 511 CRO (oscillope) and attatched it to the copper and Aluminum pipes I have driven in the ground, and I got a result, a very surprising one indeed. I'm lasy at heart, so I took a old extension lead, cut the plug and socket off, connected the output of my earth probes to one end, fed it through my kitchen window and connected that end to the inputs of the CRO.
Before I go into this, I will explain very briefly in laymans terms how the cro works.
The CRO works almost the same as a TV set, basically, the electronics inside the CRO puts a beam of electrons in a single point or "beam" which looks like a "DOT (.)"
This dot can be made to be stationery or be able to be moved at verious speeds from the Left side of the screen to the Right side of the screen.
YOU control the CRO and beam speed, it dosent control you. Don't be frightened of all the controls.
There are various knobs and switches on the CRO to let you alter the intensity, focus and speed of the beam.
You can make the beam move slow to fast or very fast or blindingly fast from left to right on the screen.
Now depending on what you want to meassure, you alter the switches to see whats hapenning inside the circuit you are testing.
I need to explain how a CRO works so you or anyone reading this can follow my own earth testing results.
To begin, lets test a simple 1.5volt DC battery D cell
"Fire UP the CRO" which means to turn on the power switch. (cheeky technical speek) lol.
In a couple of minutes you should see a moving line going across the centre of the screen, we want to stop its Left to Right movement, so look for the TIME BASE switch, turn it backwards until the beam begins to slow then stop until the beam is stationary.
Lower the brightness control because the beam will become intense in a stationary position.
Now find the VOLT switch and move the knob until it is showing 5 or 2, this sets the "voltage range" (same as on your DMM), if you were to measure a 12v DC battery, set the range to 20.
So to test a simple battery, say a 1.5 v DC cell, on your DMM, you select the DC scale, then connect the probes, POS to POS and NEG to NEG. You can see the reading of 1.5 on the DMM
Now swap the DMM for the CRO.
Connect the POS cro probe to the POS terminal of the battery, the NEG probe to the NEG battery terminal, the beam will rise upwards (1.5 divisions on the scale)showing the result, eg 1.5Volts.
Release the battery probes, the beam will return automatically to the center of the screen.
Now connect the probes back to front, (it wont hurt the CRO) the beam nows dropps below the centre line, and downwards and shows a negative result -1.5 volts.
Now remove the 1.5 DC battery, if you have a mains power transformer and know what the primary and secondaries are you can do the next experiment, but take care, if you have the wrong setting you could burn out your new CRO.
OK a transformer has a PRIMARY and a SECONDARY, the energy from the 110 or 240 volts AC go into the PRIMARY (we will NOT be measuring this side), only the SECONDARY output which has a much lower voltage.
Set the VOLT scale to read 50 (the highest on my cro), now using alligator clips, connect your probes to the SECONDARY leads, (they should be much thicker transforler wires) now look at the screen on the CRO, you should see the beam going wildly in very small steps up and down 60times a second, if you are in USA or 50times a second if you live in Australia.
Now adjust the CRO to make the image bigger or smaller with the VOLT knob switch.
SEE its easy.
You will see the green beam go VERTICAL, now go to the TIME BASE switch and begin to turn it, the "waveform" should now appear, the beam going up and down quite fast, see the SINE wave?
SEEE you got control of this thing called a CRO, you can have a LOT OF FUN with a CRO.
OK so now, by experience you can see how the "waveform" appears on the CRO screen, that was an example to get you familiar with what you might see on a CRO.
There are several controls, too many to explain to you right now what each one does, so only the simple ones I will point out to you.
There is the "FOCUS" control, this can make the "BEAM" a wide round disk to see on the screen or a fine pinpointed DOT
(everyone has a "focus" pot inside their TV set), to get to it take off the back cover, look for the thick RED wire ffrom the top of the picture tube and track it back to a big black 3inches high, thick thing on the main board.
Look on its side, you will see 1 or 2 small adjustment screws, don't touch them with your finger, if they are leaking you will get a coronial discharge. Use a insulated screwdriver to adjust while looking at the front of the screen.
If you see a bright line 1 inch apart appear (thats the BEAM current maj adj), back it off untill they dissapear,
(Wrong pot go to next one).
Now turn the next pot with your screwdriver again, look at the TV image, if it gets out of focus, turn the screwdriver the other way until the picture is in focus.
Thats how to adjust the focus on your TV set and I saved you $100 bucks for a tech call out.
OK back to the cro
There is the BEAM control which let you decide how much brightness you want the beam to have, be careful with it, if you have it turned on full it can burn the phosphor on the screen leaving a perminent burn mark.
Turn it down so it is a good image, not too bright, and hasnt got any flaring.
OK now, remember we can use the cro to take a reading of our two pipes we have in the ground.(or our Bi Fillier wound NS cell).
One is a copper pipe, which is the + POSitave and the other is the Aluminium pipe which happens to be the NEGative.
Before we connect the CRO to our earth experiments, we need to figure out what CRO settings to set it at.
As we know, by previous measurements, the cell output shown on a DMM is anything from .00000volts DC or AC to say 1.5 volts AC or DC.
As I know my own earth rod readings fall in the below 2 volt range then I can lower the VOLT on the CRO to 2 (actually I have it on .2 of a Volt, the TIME BASE switch is on 5mS which is 5 milli seconds right now)
Now I connect the CRO probes to each of the pipes, and take a look at the screen.
And there is a slight reading, to take a better look at it, I move the VOLT range lower to .2 of a volt and the TIMEBASE range to 5mS. (this makes the image bigger)
OK, I can now see the displayed "waveform" on the screen of the CRO. and by "reading" it I am getting very excited because I can see a complex waveform.
OK looking from the right to the left of the screen.
The waveform enters from the middle left, goes to a short spike upwards 1/4", downwards 1/2", travels upwards and out 3/4", slopes downwards to the right 1/2", goes up to middle, then rises higher 1/2", falls rapidly 3/4" rises and falls rapidly in a ringing fashion, then repeats the same again, except it is a oppersate mirror, (but the ringing waveform does not change) then it reverses to the discription I first gave, then does the same again and again and again infinitemum.
I will take a photo of this shortly after I figure out how to knobble the flash, mabe some thick duct tape. grin
My diagnosis is this. There is the DC component which is indicating a slowl rise and lowering with some spiking, there is the AC component which is indicated by the RINGING comoponent. The AC seems to be comprised and a part of the DC which is interspaced between the DC component.
Very interesting indeed, It could be a product of the internals of the CRO, but I dont think so.I have not seen this before.
I disconnected the POS connection and the CRO displayed a flat line, the waveform only appeared when I reconnect the POS connectioon.
Will it do the same if I remove the NEG probe lead?
Well Well Well I get a triangle waveform. 1/"up 1/2"down, 1/2"up, 1/2"down ad infinitum.
jenna, I reconnect the NEG probe lead, I adjust the VOLT to .05v and TIME BASE to 1mS (milli second) and get another amazing surprise, I see a waveform comprising a Ringing component and just behind the ringing after it tapers to an end there is a waveform which appears and dissapears every 3 seconds like the letter M.
Now folks, I just don't know what I'm looking at here, but this is very interresting ground breaking information.
I havent any idea what it is or what is causing this, has anyone else decided to do this?
jenna, you may post this in the forum if you wish, I'm a bit shy.
This just might answer some questions some of the forum techno heads have.
Jim
are time warps part of the earth battery bag of tricks ?
:)
gary
Quote
I think this spike is a very important part of the whole invention.
I think you are right .
I have heard several times that Stubblfield spent alot of time looking for good spots .
My theory is that if you find a spot that is pretty good but still want more power , you feed the extra power in from external stakes..
It looks like you still have to be careful were you place the stakes .......as you have seen bad placement can drain power from the core.
As I was typing that , It hit me that there is probably posative and negative to this energy too .
Just maybe you might need to tune the energy by choosing what kind of rod ( copper ,Iron or carbon ) .........or inductive matching .
If it was matching inductance that would explain the funny looking stuff on top of the spikes in some of the pictures of Stubbelfield
gary
Wow:
A lot of info on here and I am going to have to digest it a bit.
@ Jeanna:
Yes, you got exactly what I was talking about when winding the secondary....it grows each layer. But, it grows in diameter each layer by a "known" amount. Of course, that is only if you do a very neat wind with no overlaps. So, it grows each layer by the diameter of the magnet wire, but, actually, it grows by 2 times the diameter of the magnet wire because it is on all sides. (I am seeing this more clearly now) So this could be calculated and yes, added just the way you said. I don't know how to do this any differently. My rough calculations show that yes, I do not have enough wire. And you are right, if we buy by the pound, we have to take a sample and see the weight/foot and figure that. I hate math!!!!!!! I am still working on it.
As for the other posts, I will review and see if I have anything constructive to add.
@ Joe:
I swear I am not this stupid in real life. Ha ha.
Bill
Hello to the forum, I'm electricme.
I made a boopha that I have to put right. :-[
First to Jeanna, ;D
Hello jeanna, I have to apologise to you for spelling "jenna" wrong, I was toooo involved in my CRO item, sorry jeanna.
I tried to send it to you but Gary ended up with it.
Gary has posted my item to the forum, thats OK mate, I don't mind at all. 8)
I hope I can be of some help to you all, don't know how right now, but I have seen a need already in the last post on how to work out the amount of wire needed to make a coil so I'll get my thinking cap on and try and make a program in Clarion for you.
I have been in touch with Localjoe who has given me the incentive to peek around the door and post in the forum,lol.
Personally, I think you all are in the cutting edge of something that will be very great.
HooRoo :)
Quote from: electricme on April 02, 2008, 12:56:24 AM
Hello to the forum, I'm electricme.
I made a boopha that I have to put right. :-[
First to Jeanna, ;D
Hello jeanna, I have to apologise to you for spelling "jenna" wrong, I was toooo involved in my CRO item, sorry jeanna.
I tried to send it to you but Gary ended up with it.
Gary has posted my item to the forum, thats OK mate, I don't mind at all. 8)
I hope I can be of some help to you all, don't know how right now, but I have seen a need already in the last post on how to work out the amount of wire needed to make a coil so I'll get my thinking cap on and try and make a program in Clarion for you.
I have been in touch with Localjoe who has given me the incentive to peek around the door and post in the forum,lol.
Personally, I think you all are in the cutting edge of something that will be very great.
HooRoo :)
Welcome Jim
I agree .......
I think we are getting close to something big
gary
Quote from: Pirate88179 on April 01, 2008, 09:21:09 PM
I hate math!!!!!!! I am still working on it.
Bill
I often make mistakes but with a calculator I kinda like math. Buit if Jim is going to make a program, that will be great for us all to use. Fabulous.
@Jim electricme,
Welcome to this thread.
Thank you for your clear and extensive description of the oscilloscope. I understood everything you said almost without questions (very unusual for me ;D ;) ) I will just skip the television part if I ever get one.
I am not completely sure you were measuring a NS coil, though. Did you make one? Did you use Cu and Al?
Al not Fe?
I would like to "see" what 'ringing' looks like.
Your descriptions are very clear. I would LOVE to see the unusual waveform from the NS battery if that is what you were describing.
Please don't be shy. I was sure I was going to have to buy a flame suit after today's post but instead look at all the responsive terrific posts. This is an excellent group of investigators, everyone is different and everyone is actually interested. So, welcome.
Does clarion work on a browser? I use a mac 8) so a pc specific program wouldn't help me much. ;)
jeanna
Quote from: one on April 01, 2008, 08:37:35 PM
.....as you have seen bad placement can drain power from the core.
As I was typing that , It hit me that there is probably posative and negative to this energy too .
Just maybe you might need to tune the energy by choosing what kind of rod ( copper ,Iron or carbon ) .........or inductive matching .
If it was matching inductance that would explain the funny looking stuff on top of the spikes in some of the pictures of Stubbelfield
gary
Yeah pos and neg. It is what has been going through my thoughts about this thing on the primary.
In the kitchen I was testing with the galvanometer and pushing the needle around in opposite directions using a small battery -2.5v- on the 10's.
After 3 times swinging in one direction then back, the needle would stick in the opposite position (N or S) and if I reversed the polarity (leads of battery) it would swing to the opposite direction for 3 times then get stuck again.
Over and over.
Sometimes I saw a spark bridging between the terminals and the battery leads when I switched the direction of the leads. In Jim's description just now of the shape ot the wave, I could see the translation of what I was doing into waveforms. (why I asked to see it)
I think NS is very clear that we are to use iron for the "core piece1". When I was boosting the voltage I was adding a line from an outside probe to the copper wire. I only got a little boost from adding a line from an outside probe to the iron wire.
This meant to me that a circuit of cu probe to cu wire of NS coil with the earth as resistor is added to the coil.
By touching this same cu wire directly to the core piece1 the voltage plummeted. So, I said the ground was sucking out the voltage. What I am thinking now is that there was a circuit that was formed from the cu wire to the core piece1 through the ground and away. But in that one spot it went to -38v or something. hmm
I need to sort this out a little more.
Quotematching inductance... explain the funny things on the top...
Could you please explain?
Thanks for your thoughts,
jeanna
hmmm in regards to, am I working on a NS cell, sorry, no, not yet, I have everything except a big enough bolt and the cotton tape.
I found about 20 odd bolts at the dump a couple of years ago and gave the lot of them away to a farmer in this neck of the woods, siiii.
My current project is poking about with copper rods etc etc. "sorry", but don't dispare, I want to make one of those cells.
In my electrical apprenticeship days almost 40 years ago, we used cotton tape to wind around starter motor field coils, cotton tape was also used on Lucas C40 and C45 generator field coils, now there is a supply of copper wire in those coils. hint hint.
Starter motors have very thick copper coils, double hint.
Starter motor solenoids have 2 different size copper coils in them also.
Now here is the good part, cotton tape can be bought on rolls from a ladies lar-de-dooo-da shops, I think it is hemming tape .... not sure, I'm checking this out as I type. AHHH its called bias binding, so the wifie who lives in another town says. (shes crook)
OK I got out my lap top several hours ago and fired it up, and made a start on the software program, so far it is going OK.
I have made 6 levels of entries, if you have 1 layer, thats fine, if you have 3 or more, it will still compute
It will go like this
Enter in the name of the cell or project, enter the bolt size (so you can find it later on in a selectable menu)
Enter in the number of turns of the number of coils counted on the 1st layer in 1 inch, the enter in the length of the wire (after you have removed the coils and measured its length), add in how many 1 inch coils will fit on this 1st layer.
Then go and do the same for as many layers of coils up to 6 layers.
(I could increase this to 12 if need be but we should see how it goes first).
I have to compute the method of division and subtraction for Lbs to Kilos, inches to feet etc etc, so it might be a little while.
mucking around making software keeps me sane ha ha.
At the bottom of the screen will be the computed answers, how much copper or windings in weight or feet etc you need to get to make a NS cell.
It wont cost anything, see there are free things you can pickup lol.
Now, as I don't have a web address, anyone want to put their hand up to have it available on theirs?
I'll send the .exe to them and they can test it out and let me know any improvements to make.
jeanna, to your question, will it work on a mac? I don't know, it is a DOS able program, which means it probably won't work on a mac but I have not tried it as I haven't got a mac, you can try it but I recommend you put it on a PC separate using windows so you don't muck up your own mac setup.
I think I saw a mac to Windows emulation conversion program but not sure, I will do a search shortly.
BTW you use just ARROW keys to move to Wheaver, press Enter key to access and enter in the info on keyboard, to escape, just press ESC, pretty simple to use.
Later on I will make another program to record what the outputs of the NS cells you get, would you like that also?
Gotta go and eat dinner, the skeeters are eating tooo.
Jim
Quote from: jeanna on April 02, 2008, 02:02:12 AM
Quotematching inductance... explain the funny things on the top...
Could you please explain?
Thanks for your thoughts,
jeanna
Jeanna
I probably shouldn't have said anything about the inductors ....... it was part of a flash that hit me as I was typing up that post .
I don't really understand it ........... All I understand is the funny looking things on top of the stakes in some of the pictures of Stubblfield are probably coils to tune the energy tapped by the stake to be a closer match with the core . ...... kind of like a matching transformer or SWR matching
Given Jims findings with his scope it could be a resonant circuit too .
Just had another flash ................ there is a Tesla patent with an elevated coil and cap .......... it would have to be tuned to the right frequency .
In the patent the cap is a flat plate .
maybe Jim can figure out the frequency with the waveform on his scope .
I will have to spend some time looking for the patent tonight .
gary
gary
Quote from: one on April 02, 2008, 01:43:47 PM
Jeanna
I probably shouldn't have said anything about the inductors ....... it was part of a flash that hit me as I was typing up that post .
..... the funny looking things on top of the stakes in some of the pictures of Stubblfield are probably coils...................... it could be a resonant circuit too .
Just had another flash ................ there is a Tesla patent
Please always type the flashes that come in when you're typing. (as you did above. I believe this is where true brilliance is to be found.)
I think that there is a pic of the thing of the patent in the picture of father and son standing next to a tall wooden box. Down by their knees is an array of posts that look to me exactly like the spool on the spike of the patent. but with a globe on the top and a half globe below.
There are also wires that are going from this thing that go toward the earth and dissappear from view. (Although of course they could be the secondary output wires,) I suspect these are connected to 5,6.
This is where I got the idea that one of these (flash... or both!) are attached to external distant probes to increase the overall voltage. I am thinking that this is to give better ability to produce a good spark.
I think this thing can produce its own sparks if the tuning is right. [I have often referred to those globes on top of the pics of the NS coils, I think the globes are a capacitor.]
I noticed the other day that the resistance of the wires made the threshold of oscillation higher than what I wanted.
This made me see that the threshold of oscillation is resistance dependent for coils of the size we are making. By adding voltage from outside the coil, there is no need to add many more turns and thus add more resistance in the coil.
but it seems that you are referring to something else when you say weird things on top of the stakes...
If you are looking at a different pic would you please bring it here?
I am looking forward to seeing the tesla patent too. (information/experimentation junky, I am! ;))
I can also repost a small copy of the one I am referring to. - separately
jeanna
Oh Gary, the programming on a mac is "object oriented" this means the syntax is Subject verb object, which is the reverse of MS programming. so, forget trying to make the two combine. Sun made a bridge for the two with java. more improvements have been made since they did that. That is why I asked if clarion worked with a browser. I like math logic enough that I actually enjoy working out things like this if I must. I am glad you are doing it for the group. What a gift you are providing!
j
Here is that picture made very small. ;)
jeanna
Quote from: jeanna on April 02, 2008, 03:10:28 PM
Here is that picture made very small. ;)
jeanna
Jeanna
Yes that is a good picture of what I was talking about .
I have a list of Tesla patents that is suposed to be complete ........I looked through it twice and didn't find the patent I was thinking of ..
I did find one with similar configuration .
In the patent I was thinking of where P is in this patent there was a flat pllate of metal used as a cap
Where r & d are there was a coil
There were several modified versions .
one had a spark gap another had a comutator
I remember it said that the cap should be elavated the higher the better..
gary
Edit
It turns out that I can't get the picture here at this time
it is patent # 685 957
I can't seem to select it from PDF
I did a screen shot .......MS Paint won't accept it because it is not the right format .
I tried to upload it to an online image editor I use sometimes ........it timed out .
I am going to let it go for a while .
Quote from: one on April 02, 2008, 07:08:57 PM
it is patent # 685 957
thanks for the number
Here try this
http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl (http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl)
go there and plug in the number - take out the space first.
it will be a pdf
then bookmark that page - it is great to have it.
jeanna
@ All:
The picture Jeanna just posted (good job Jeanna) was discussed a million posts ago or so. I think, and am not sure, but I think that since the photo was part of the larger picture with NS's telephone "system" I think it is safe to say that these unidentified items are not the earth batteries. I believe they are the electromagnetic coil part of the patent that Joe has pointed out to us several times. (good catch Joe) What are those things on the top of the rods? We discussed this as well and I don't think we have any idea. The only reason for my saying this is because it goes along with what Joe discovered in the patent and, the several photos we have had here on the actual earth batteries. There are several other photos that have been posted, maybe I can repost some, that show these same unique rods in the earth when NS is in the woods in a picture called "Receiving a message" or something like that. I am just urging caution that I, along with others, believe this was part of the telephone system and not the power source. (earth batteries)
Hans posted a picture or two of a box of earth batteries which some of us zoomed in on (as best we could) and they did not look anything like these others at all. Am I sure about this? Well, I am sure they looked totally different but I can't really say anything for sure. Just keep an open mind and remember Joe's discovery that there were two totally different devices described in the patent. The thing I do not understand is that if these were just for the telephone system as electromagnets, why did he need so many of them? I mean, if he just needed a relay or solenoid, why so many? I think there were like 5 or so in Jeanna's blow-up shot.
So, what am I really saying here? I don't really know.
Bill
Bill,
Would you mind reposting the results you have on your NS coil?
I would like to see a list of whatever you have from the pot of water and comparable measurements of the same coil once it went into the ground.
I think this will be cery useful at this point, and really what the new folks are asking for.
Thanks,
jeanna
@ Jeanna:
Yes, I will dig up my results from the wet experiments with the two coils but, I have not yet buried any as I too am trying to keep them clean until I can wind secondaries. So, I have no in the ground experience with the coils.
Do you think I should repost links to my earth battery video series on youtube here for the new folks? Of course, these were all made with the multiple electrode approach using carbon rods and magnesium blocks.
It might take me a little while to find my coils results, but I will. Thanks Jeanna.
Bill
Yes Bill,
I would like to know the difference between the inside in a pot of water as contrasted with outside in the ground.
I didn't remember your results in the ground, and now I know why.
Did anybody put a coil in the ground and test it both ways, or am I the only one?
Yes, the youtube link on the same page would be OK too. I just think everything should be sort of compact. So, if you wait on the youtube link and put it together, we can copy the entry and paste it to a text file of results on a battery documents file/folder of our own. This will help now and in the future, they will be already compiled when a new person wants a list of facts.
------------
Now, as far as I can tell NS only had the 2 patents. This one which was his power source, and one for wireless telephone. (well the speaker of the telephone itself too.)
I think that while he probably used this as a transmitter he also used it for all his electrical devices as the power source. I am positive (of course perhaps incorrect too) that those things on the poles were a version of this power source. Yes, in the case of that picture, it was being used for powering his wireless telephone.
Joe's brilliant observation that the make and break is the key led me to look for the make and break in the pictures of the thing while being demonstrated.
Hans, verified that a spherical ball was often used as a capacitor with an internal spark gap; and there is it. The spark gap is inside the sphere. Some wires make and break and other wires come from it and go to the thing it is powering. (I can get you a link that can help calculate the sparks of a sphere too).
Why am I the only one that sees this as the likely design? Oh wait Gary sees it too. Am I making an obvious error here? Where is the patent that talks about the transmittor which is not using this as its power source?
Having said that in my hotheaded italian way...I will now study the transmitter patent to see if the circuit drawing could be this. ;)
jeanna
@ Jeanna and all:
If I can compress it small enough, here is a picture of the box of earth batteries at the Stubblefield farm in 1902. I tried to zoom in so you can see there are no spheres on top of them at this time. It is clear on my computer but I have no idea what will show when posted. I have Han's pictures, a few of them I download, but they are too large to post anymore. Make of it what you will because I don't know.
Bill
***EDIT*** I believe that is a single EB just off to the left. It looks like a larger coil. The coils in the box appear to have
wires attached to them and may be all linked together in series. What do you think?
What strikes me is the proportion of what looks like a spool on its side. (on the left by itself) One of the coil gun sites I went to the other day had the coils made thick and short for the best propulsion. This looks a little like it. But it is hard to see.
Bill, can you try to make it bigger? it is 14k and you are allowed 50. What if you cropped it lower - cut the folks off at the waist >:( then it would be smaller to start with then maybe the resolution would be better. I may look for that pic somewhere on my computer if you cannot.
jeanna
@ Jeanna:
That's about the best I can do with my free picture editing software. The resolution on the original is not that great to begin with. You could try to download it from my post and play with it on your Mac. They are supposed to be better for stuff like that right? ***EDIT*** See post below
Bill
Here is another try. A little better maybe. There are a couple of items just off to the left of the box. One large, fat coil standing vertically...and something laying on its side. Wonder what that is?
Bill
Quote from: jeanna on April 02, 2008, 10:41:59 PM
Why am I the only one that sees this as the likely design? Oh wait Gary sees it too. Am I making an obvious error here? Where is the patent that talks about the transmittor which is not using this as its power source?
Actually I think everyone is right .
I think it has been shown that it is possable to feed power into the coils from other " hot " spots
I am pretty sure that for maximum efficency the stakes driven into the " hot" spots would need too be tuned for the specific site .
I also remember pictures of the the phone setup being used . there was clearly 2 stakes set a distance in front of the main part of the phone .
I also believe that those stakes would have to be tuned for maximum efficency
Maybe they are tuned in different ways ( as the power stakes ) ..........maybe almost the same .
gary
Quote from: Pirate88179 on April 03, 2008, 01:24:46 AM
Here is another try. A little better maybe. Bill
here is a different one-I'm getting kicked off
another try
I don't think the improvement will help but here it is:
same shot as Bill's
Quote from: jeanna on April 03, 2008, 02:33:52 AM
Quote from: Pirate88179 on April 03, 2008, 01:24:46 AM
Here is another try. A little better maybe. Bill
here is a different one-I'm getting kicked off
Jeanna
still 3 stakes .......... but look at them close .......it looks like cloth around the top of the rod ......then that cloth wrapped with wire ..........and not very neatly . ........
Has anyone tried taking readings of a dry coil?
I have been drying mine out a few days now.
I was checking it to make sure it was dry ( 5 & 6 )
No amps No V DC ...........but the polarity indicator kept flashing .
I switched to AC .05 V
I played with it for a while trying to figure out what was causing the reading .
No matter what I did I kept getting getting readings in the same range ........from .05 to just over .1V
For a while I thought it was acting like a hall effect sensor ........ I could change the reading by holding a magnet near it ..... I could get a stable reading by holding the magnet a set distance from the coil ....... but when I would leave the magnet in contact with the coil and step back the readings would go back to the same as no magnet at all .
Then I kind of gave up .........and put the magnets away .......When I reached to turn the meter off .......... the readings jumped up exactly as they did when I was holding the magnet.
Then I noticed that as I step closer to it ..........the readings get higher ...... standing about 18 in away it reads about
.05 ....... if I lean over it ......the readings start to rise .
If I cup my hands and hold them just above it I can get a reading of .15 V
If I touch it .......I get a reading of around .175 V
I don't think it is static charge because after touching it it goes right back to the same numbers ........and rubbing my foot on the carpet while holding my had a fixed distance from the coil maintains a steady reading .
connecting caps to the coil didn't change much ........ the caps seem to dampen the effect a little .......but that is all .
Anyone have any ideas about what I am reading ?
Anyone else getting similar readings?
gary
@ jeanna
@ bill
Thanks to jeanna for posting the group photo which has the box of equipment, did anyone notice the image of an unknown person looking through the window, (might be my crook eyes)ha ha. I think I also saw a very faint wire exiting the top left window frame.
Now to another photo which shows the roundly things on the top of the poles poking in the ground, I remember reading somewhere that to accumulate a charge (static energy) one has to have very smooth and round metal objects, it seems if you try to pump a static charge into these objects, if there is any sharp protrusion, the charge accumulated will bleed away from the sharp point. BUT, looking at the photo closely, it appears the 2 hemispheres are able to be pulled apart, I think there is a large nut on the top with a bit of a central rod poking through.
If this is the case, then any charge would bleed away.
Soooo, I think they serve a different and double purpose in this instance, Looking at the lower section, there is just a "half" of a hemisphere, but it is upside down, now I think that this some type of "energy" focusing amplifier, that can focus or intensify earth currents/energy into a top standing coil. I may be wrong, any one got another theory?
But Hans is right about the object being a capacitor, just a wee bit smaller than the one Tesla built on his wooden tower.
PS I bought my second scope today, its a 10MHz job, hope it will come to good use.
Talking about that, I left my older scope running all day, didn't touch any settings, but oh boy oh boy, the wave forms are doing things all by themselves, no wonder everyone is having trouble trying to nail this down, there is energy spikes coming and going, some last a while and go, others stay. The ringing waveform is vibrating in the middle.
I tried to post an image to the forum last night but got knocked off, mabe it was too big to post lol.
Jim
PS software is coming along nicely
@ Gary
Hey Gary, I stumbled onto some info that might link up with your experiance in your last post.
Yesterday I was in a site that did a strange thing with short wave radio, the aerial was berried in the ground, the earth was burried a fair distance away, the person tuned the radio to a distant station. He found that the ground radio signal became loud as he approached the radio, as he moved away from the set, the volume became almost lost. Approaching the set again, it became louder.
He could "pump" the signal by tuning backwards and forwards, this gave the signal more energy. very interresting.
OK, it seems somehow you have also been able to do the same by your setup, but you can register a result by observing the actual voltages themselves. Good work.
Jim
sorry I dont have the http address right now
Quote from: electricme on April 03, 2008, 06:34:33 AM
@ Gary
Hey Gary, I stumbled onto some info that might link up with your experiance in your last post.
Yesterday I was in a site that did a strange thing with short wave radio, the aerial was berried in the ground, the earth was burried a fair distance away, the person tuned the radio to a distant station. He found that the ground radio signal became loud as he approached the radio, as he moved away from the set, the volume became almost lost. Approaching the set again, it became louder.
He could "pump" the signal by tuning backwards and forwards, this gave the signal more energy. very interresting.
OK, it seems somehow you have also been able to do the same by your setup, but you can register a result by observing the actual voltages themselves. Good work.
Jim
sorry I dont have the http address right now
Jim
I can't see anything like a pumping effect.
I did just notice that I can get a reading on DC it is positive when I step closer and negative when I step away .
The DC reading only last while I am moving .......the AC changes as I am moving then stays te same when I am stopped .
I am not sure if the radio thing you were talking about is the same effect but it is interesting
gary
@ Gary,
Yep, but that's what makes this forum so interresting, the people here don't really care if the world thinks we are crazy, after all they once said that man could never go faster than sound and live, look at the SR71, it broke all known records, and in it's turn the space shuttle broke them all again. lol.
If ordinary man relied on ordinary man, then man would still be thinking the world was flat and there would be no electric toasters.
So thumbs up to all the Tesla's, Stubblefields, Morna's, Keeley's etc etc & Garys ;D
Jim
@ electricme:
I don't know what window you are looking at in the photo posted by Jeanna. (Good find Jeanna) There is a window frame off to the very right of the photo as posted. You can't see the window itself so how can you see someone looking in or a wire going out? Are you looking at a different photo? What is directly behind them in the photo is a painting (check the frame) and if that is what you think is a window, I see a small line that you thought was a wire. I think this is just a line in the old photo. What do you think?
@ All:
What is being described here reminds me of am radio, which I listen to a lot. If I walk closer to it, it gets louder and visa-versa. I think I am just assisting the antenna in some way and this may not (probably not) be related to what one has been reading. Both of my coils are bone dry and have been for weeks. I will take some measurements both dry and wet and see what happens. I finally found a fuse for my digital meter that I blew out when testing my electrodes outside. Actually, I got it from radio shack and it is slightly a smaller value which should be ok. No one in this town had the correct match.
@Jeanna:
I think I have seen that photo before but it was a while back and I did not notice the things we are looking at now. That is a pretty sloppy winding on the outside of them isn't it? Of course, since they are in the house they are not in the ground which makes sense as they were posing for the photo and not operating the unit. Maybe we can blow up some of the rods in this shot as well to see if we can look a little closer at what they might be. Right now, I agree with the others and am leaning toward them being some type of early capacitor or possibly a rectifier to smooth out the pulsed dc from the make/break device? If so, then why so many needed? If capacitors then, it make sense for the multiple rods. This is like working on an old mystery isn't it? Well, I guess it is an old mystery. I will report back the numbers you asked for very soon. Sorry for the delay.
Bill
Here is a little closer shot (hopefully)
Bill
Here this might be a little higher res
Quote from: Localjoe on April 03, 2008, 01:57:47 PM
Here this might be a little higher res
Good close ups joe and bill.
Thank you jim for giving this boost of information from your oscilloscope. This is very valuable.
Behind the curtains I only see leaves.
BTW I grabbed this pic from bedini icehouse site. thanks, john B
Hans answered a query of mine about the number of units by saying each unit in these pictures is a separate phone number. Without being able to build one myself it sort of makes sense.
I noticed that the secondaries here are scramble-wound. I read on a page that taught about winding a secondary that it still works if not neat. lots of variations too, like make the first layer perfect and scramble wind the rest.
One of the things I also notices is that they are holding the secondary of one each. It looks like a way to display them, but it may also be part of talking on his phone.? I noticed the coiled wire leading away from the one the boy is holding. there seem to be 4 here. two for the boy, two on the other side for NS.
Gary, I think you are thinking along the lines I am too. No, I would rather not make a decision about what this means for now. Please keep it up, I am getting more ideas from your posts.
I have certainly tried and I have found NO way to simulate and therefore replace the galvanic action that starts up this fascinating coil. I think it must be moist. NS says it is better not too wet.
Yesterday late in the afternoon I visited my primary in the ground and threw some water on it because I was sure it was too dry. didn't check.
The basic voltage was down from the noon figures. so, I don't know if that is the too wetness or maybe the time of day. That seems to play a big part in this.
Gary, I think you saw that a cap didn't help.
Can you be more specific? like numbers?
I think you are seeing some interesting effects.
I got stumped by squeezing the 5,6 and seeing a nice bunch of voltage, but that was using me - my skin like a sea of earth energy. useful to see, but not coming from the coil.
I may have missed something.
You all did a lot while I was asleep!
Bravo everybody.
now it is my turn to play,
jeanna
@ Joe:
Yes, I forgot about that one. Much neater windings there eh? I think I am more confused than before.
@ One and Jeanna: (very strange results)
Readings of the dry coils: Readings of the wet coils:
Large coil: Large coil:
cu to core=.24 v 0mA cu to core= .92 v 2.0mA
cu to fe wire= .02 v 0mA cu to fe wire=.3v 1.5mA
fe to core= .7 v 19 mA
Small coil: Small coil:
cu to core=.22v 0mA cu to core=.52 v 8mA
cu to fe wire= .06v 0mA cu to fe wire=.17 v .99mA
fe to core=.55 v 10.6mA
The polarity seemed to reverse since my last tests. My best readings, as you can see, are now from the iron wire to the core. This was not true in the earlier tests. what gives??
Bill
http://youtube.com/watch?v=mq9ZKDKDclY (http://youtube.com/watch?v=mq9ZKDKDclY) Earth battery experiments on youtube.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=vixrFpm0p_g (http://youtube.com/watch?v=vixrFpm0p_g) Earth battery experiments II on youtube
@ All:
Above should be the links to two of my videos dealing with earth batteries. This is for some of the newer folks that might have missed it buried back in the topic somewhere. Do not get confused. These are the older experiments I did using electrodes and NOT coils. I just thought I would bring them forward in case anyone wanted to have a look. Thanks.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on April 03, 2008, 03:10:11 PM
cu to fe wire=.17 v .99mA
fe to core=.55 v 10.6mA
The polarity seemed to reverse since my last tests. My best readings, as you can see, are now from the iron wire to the core. This was not true in the earlier tests. what gives??
Bill
@Bill,
When you say cu to fe wire I am assuming you mean you have the probes on one pair of terminals when you record these numbers and this is that number. - I mean, this is NOT a figure fir shorting the wires is it?
Well, this is the curious stuff of this coil. reversing the polarity seems to be part of what happens.
Iwas seeing reversing of polarity with the compass needle as a galvanometer. I am so glad jim has an oscilloscope. I am going to keep going back to that thrift store until I can find one. ;)
Thanks,
jeanna
Hey Bill, what would happen to the coil if you poked the end of it in the earth (not buried, just an inch or to the bottom of the windings) and touched the cu to the core and the fe to the core?
Quote from: one on April 03, 2008, 04:46:08 AM
Has anyone tried taking readings of a dry coil?
I have been drying mine out a few days now.
I was checking it to make sure it was dry ( 5 & 6 )
No amps No V DC ...........but the polarity indicator kept flashing .
I switched to AC .05 V
I played with it for a while trying to figure out what was causing the reading .
No matter what I did I kept getting getting readings in the same range ........from .05 to just over .1V
For a while I thought it was acting like a hall effect sensor ........ I could change the reading by holding a magnet near it ..... I could get a stable reading by holding the magnet a set distance from the coil ....... but when I would leave the magnet in contact with the coil and step back the readings would go back to the same as no magnet at all .
Then I kind of gave up .........and put the magnets away .......When I reached to turn the meter off .......... the readings jumped up exactly as they did when I was holding the magnet.
Then I noticed that as I step closer to it ..........the readings get higher ...... standing about 18 in away it reads about
.05 ....... if I lean over it ......the readings start to rise .
If I cup my hands and hold them just above it I can get a reading of .15 V
If I touch it .......I get a reading of around .175 V
I don't think it is static charge because after touching it it goes right back to the same numbers ........and rubbing my foot on the carpet while holding my had a fixed distance from the coil maintains a steady reading .
connecting caps to the coil didn't change much ........ the caps seem to dampen the effect a little .......but that is all .
Anyone have any ideas about what I am reading ?
Anyone else getting similar readings?
gary
Quote
Gary, I think you saw that a cap didn't help.
Can you be more specific? like numbers?
I think you are seeing some interesting effects.
Jeanna all the numbers I have are in the quote .
the range is not that much ........ what is getting me is that there should not be anything there at all .......but something is going on ........
I was at a loss for answers before ............ then a few minutes ago I moved the meter a little and one of the clips going to the copper winding popped off ....... I replaced it ...... it is still doing the same things ...........but the readings are about 1/4 what they were before the clip came off .
``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
Thanks for posting the numbers for your coils .
I can't take readings that match yours with this coil because of the way I made my core.
If you have a dry coil, can you check between the copper and iron windings for AC ?
If you get an AC reading does it change as you move closer to or farther from your coil?
thanks
gary
Quote from: one on April 03, 2008, 09:46:16 PM
If you have a dry coil, can you check between the copper and iron windings for AC If you get an AC reading does it change as you move closer to or farther from your coil?
thanks
gary
I have 3 coils that cannot get wet because they are made with plastic coated cu wire. without an externally applied voltage from a battery they read nothing anywhere. The resolution on my meter is only to vac and it will say 0.0 vac, but you know that last number is not a number you can count.
My guess is that there is enough moisture in the air that you are getting those very small amounts grom the cloth picking that up..
I live in an area of lots of moisture especially in winter. Removing all possibility of galvanic reaction was one of the reasons I made those coils using telephone wire. My reasoning was that, then I could add a known amount and look at it. the trouble was that I couldn't really add it anywhere that was comparable. maybe. ;)
Our bodies have electricity running through them all the time. all nerve and muscle actions are electrical and bones are peizoelectric etc... I am sure your body can have a field effect on this and if you can properly read it it could show ambient effects caused by proximity to your body, but I don't know what to do with it either.
anyone else?
maybe jim with his o scope can add to this when he makes a coil.
Joe, don't you have an oscilloscope for your work?
jeanna
Quote from: jeanna on April 03, 2008, 10:15:35 PM
My guess is that there is enough moisture in the air that you are getting those very small amounts grom the cloth picking that up..
I don't think it is moisture in the coil ......... the DC readings from my coil went to 0 days ago . ( across 5&6 )
It does seem to be reading something like body electrical activity .
gary
Jeana
How big are your coils ?
I am guessing that mine is bigger .
The voltages I am getting are small . with a smaller coil they probably wouldn't register .
My coil weighs 5.2 pounds .........my core is almost a pound of that.
( 2330 Kg )
Quote from: one on April 03, 2008, 10:40:16 PM
My coil weighs 5.2 pounds .........my core is almost a pound of that.
( 2330 Kg )
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
All my coils put together don't weigh that much!
50 or so turns per layer
3 1/2 layers
about 3-5 inches in coil length
I am working on a big one today. As I check each layer the voltage stays good at about .7vdc to .8vdc and the amperage is up to 15 milli amps (not micro) I think I will go til I'm out of wire. Maybe it will be a heavy too.
I am wrapping it las I think it was you putting a layer of cloth after each wind of metal and squeezing the pair wire in between. very smart. it works much better.
jeanna
@ All:
Did you all notice that I am now getting 19mA from the iron wire to the core? (Yes Jeanna, all the posted tests were done by putting the meter in between each wire or core....no shorts) where before, it was from the copper, which used to be positive, to the core. I called this a polarity reversal but maybe that is not exactly correct. But, to get the meter to read without the "-" sign, I had to use the + probe on the iron wire and the - on the core. This is 180 degrees from my earlier results. I am dumbfounded here.
I am also impressed with the "dry" readings. I did not think to test those before. They are low as you can see but, still there. These things just sit there and put out volts on their own. Probably not OU but interesting nevertheless. About a quarter of a volt for just sitting there. I did some series hook-up and tests with both coils (wet) and I did not see anything worth reporting. It seemed to just "assume" the highest number for both volts and mA from the best coil in that configuration. Nothing added that I could detect.
Bill
@ Jeanna:
I just re-did your compass experiments with my two wet coils. They are not really dripping but still wet from my earlier tests. Call them moist +. Bringing them one at a time (it made no difference) toward a compass the compass would spin away from the north position. I rotated the coil with no effect, still in repel mode. Then, I placed the head of my coil (the top) toward the compass and.....it was now attracting the north setting! This means the head, or top of my coils are south, and the body of the coils are north. This was a great test you dreamed up. I still don't know what it is trying to tell us but it is trying to tell us something. Thanks.
Bill
Quote from: jeanna on April 03, 2008, 11:08:30 PM
Quote from: one on April 03, 2008, 10:40:16 PM
My coil weighs 5.2 pounds .........my core is almost a pound of that.
( 2330 Kg )
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
All my coils put together don't weigh that much!
50 or so turns per layer
3 1/2 layers
about 3-5 inches in coil length
I am working on a big one today. As I check each layer the voltage stays good at about .7vdc to .8vdc and the amperage is up to 15 milli amps (not micro) I think I will go til I'm out of wire. Maybe it will be a heavy too.
I am wrapping it las I think it was you putting a layer of cloth after each wind of metal and squeezing the pair wire in between. very smart. it works much better.
jeanna
Thanks Jenna
I think I am going to forget about the strange readings for now
I am going to assume that it is just a function of a big coil
`````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
@ all
Any ideas about how big Stubblefield made his coils ?
I see the patent shows 5 layers
My coil was 4 layers it was just over 4 in but not wound very tight.
I am guessing between 4.5 to 5 in for a nice tight 5 layer coil ( assuming 1 in core )
This is based on using # 6 copper wire and similar sized iron.
anyone have anything on how long to make it ?
I think my next project will be to make a simple jig for winding coils
winding the first layer of my coil went pretty well .
The second layer was a little harder .
The third layer got pretty nasty ..
The 4th layer was just plain out of control the whole time .
I think with a jig I can tear apart my old coil and rebuild it ....... maybe a couple times if needed .
Trying to wind it by hand with wire that is less than straight would be almost imposable .
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
The strange readings I got has made me courious
I am pretty sure it is a result of making a big coil with 2 kinds of metal
I know Stubbfield specifies copper and Iron ........but I don't think that aluminum was available at that time.
Aluminum has some strange quirks ........ copper is non magnetic .......aluminum is para magnetic.
Aluminum alloy is -1.05 on the chart .......it should provide alot more voltage .
I am going to rebuild my original coil.......probably buy another 25 feet of copper and try to make at least close to a full sized coil .
Then ....... probably an aluminum Iron coil
The power line going to your house is probably aluminum and about the right size . .................. so if your power goes out in a couple weeks ............................ :)
gary
Quote from: Pirate88179 on April 03, 2008, 11:51:49 PM
@ All:
Did you all notice that I am now getting 19mA from the iron wire to the core? (Yes Jeanna, all the posted tests were done by putting the meter in between each wire or core....no shorts) where before, it was from the copper, which used to be positive, to the core. I called this a polarity reversal but maybe that is not exactly correct. But, to get the meter to read without the "-" sign, I had to use the + probe on the iron wire and the - on the core. This is 180 degrees from my earlier results. I am dumbfounded here.
I am also impressed with the "dry" readings. I did not think to test those before. They are low as you can see but, still there. These things just sit there and put out volts on their own. Probably not OU but interesting nevertheless. About a quarter of a volt for just sitting there. I did some series hook-up and tests with both coils (wet) and I did not see anything worth reporting. It seemed to just "assume" the highest number for both volts and mA from the best coil in that configuration. Nothing added that I could detect.
Bill
Bill
I don't see how the dry readings could be anything except overunity .
With the wet readings we know that it is acting like a normal battery ...... the wires will eventually be used up in the process of creating electricity
With the dry readings ...... there is no know deterioration that I know of.
The power level is low enough that it is not practical to try to use it as a power source ..........but maybe someday .
gary
@ One:
Just so you know, I used over 75 feet of copper wire (and another 75 of iron ) for my coil and it is a small one with only 2 layers. I used 23 ga. for copper and 24 ga. for iron. There are pictures on here somewhere, I can repost if you want but possibly too large a size for the new restrictions. Well, I will try to reduce the size and post here. Let's see.....
Bill
@ One:
I agree with you on both counts. Yes, very small but free and probably will never run out as you said, it is not "using up" anything like when wet or in acid like a regular battery. Lower initial cost than solar and, solar has a 15% (or thereabouts) COP while these are, well, I don't know but whatever comes out is 100% OU as we put nothing in. OK, well at least 100% COP. Gary, my core, which you can't see much of in the photo, is an iron nail (spike) that is zinc coated. It is the kind of spike you would use to nail landscaping ties together. It is about 12" long. Very high iron content. Probably 1/2" dia. or thereabouts.
Bill
@ All
Hoo boy there are some posts here to catch up on
I was feeling a bit sad today because I still see jeanna has not got a CRO, and is pining :'( so off I went and I did a search and found something that everyone could use if they feel they can, the following web address has "software" scopes, ;D I haven't tried them out, some are 30megs some are small, some you pay for, others are freeware. http://www.softpedia.com/downloadTag/Oscilloscope
(I bet Jeanna's keyboard is smoking)
Might be an idea to burn the Zips to a CD as the freebies sometimes get pulled if they go popular or updated with knobbled ones you have to pay for to get em working again.
.
My personal recommendations are, if you have a spare PC, set it up on that one.
Now, there is a web site that shows you how to make a probe with instructions in jpgs http://www.ladyada.net/library/equip/index.html
If you decide to go down this track, always put the lowest voltage into your PC sound card, my AUX input wont work anymore so I have only the microphone working.
Somewhere in the shed I have a roll of 1/8inch bare copper wire I used to use as an aerial, might take a look for it in the next couple of days.
@ bill
Thanks for posting your U tube experiments, I will go and take a look right now, I need an incentive :).
Quick announcement, just saw on Ch9 TodayTonight (aust) on Monday night, they doing a story on "magnetic water" and they say plants thrive big time with it, Stubblefield rods and plants go wild on it. I betta ty a big string on my pinkie not to forget to watch this.
Jim
@ Bill
I went to take a look at your videos you put on E Tube owildbillo, :) they are very good, actually Bill, it was because you put them on the web that I found this forum, so thank you, I took a look at the homopolar screw you did on a rainy day as well, very interresting.
There appears to be a lot of energy locked up in magnets, I must got my hands on a couple soon.
A friend of mine out this way once said to me, put 2 steel ball bearings on a steel rod, mount that in a housing, then put 12v DC from a car battery on each bearing via jumper leads, and it will take off at high speed. The bearings dont last too long, but you can get incredable energy out of it.
good night all, Im off to bed
Jim
I have a little thing or 2 to report.
For the last couple of days I have measured the primary coil outside in the ground. Yesterday I added a second coil that has a secondary on it nearby.
Bizarro.
The first coil is the 12 inch iron spike which is only a primary.
The voltage inside and moist is around 250mvdc and about 12 uA .
When I put this primary only coil into the ground the voltage dropped to 189vdc.
I tried adding a cap etc. I reported this stuff the other day.
Well, that was Apr 1st. On Apr 2, the voltage rose to 203mvdc, then Apr 3 (warm sun?) the voltage was up to 245vdc - normal. Today, Apr 4 in the light rain, it has dropped again to 200mvdc.
13uA seems to be pretty steady.
Yesterday, Apr 4 I put a small coil that has a secondary scramble wound around it halfway stuck into the ground.
Inside and moist this reads
394mvdc
0.3vac
159uA and goes down - I never recorded to what. :(
outside and halfway stuck in the ground
Apr 3 when it went into the ground
79mvdc (way down)
later that day
25mvdc (down even more)
25.4uA and absolutely steady
just before dark
18mvdc
18uA
connect cu wire to secondary one side (-)380mv!!! {Fe to 2dary is + 380mvdc}
April 4 cold and rainy
10mvdc (can it go any lower?)
10uA
(-)300mvdc - cu to 2dary wire.
So, with only these 2 coils as samples, I can say that putting the coil into the ground at least at first the voltage goes down. The purely iron core Primary only, recovers pretty well and output seems to be fairly steady. BUT the little one with a zinc core and a secondary has not begun to recover yet after 24 hours.
And what is this where I can connect the cu5 to one of the leads off the secondary and the voltage goes way up to 30 times what is found on the 5,6 terminals! ???
(BTW this works the other way too, ie. the fe6 to the secondary wire gives about the same number of volts with a reversal in polarity. - also, I forgot to double check which way it was pos and neg.)
EDIT: I did check and corrected this. the cu gives the (-) and the fe gives the (+) both around the same value.
It seems stranger every day.
So, Bill, just wait till you get yours out in the yard!! ;) ;D
jeanna
@Bill,
QuoteDid you all notice that I am now getting 19mA from the iron wire to the core?
yaknow bill, I was noticing a potential between the 5 or 6 wires and the bolt indoors also. This is the reasoning behind doing the same thing when the primary got stuck into the ground. The fact that it plummeted only means to me that this is a very active place and we should all be looking here to see what happens.
(Apr 2, the day I checked this the voltage went from 103mvdc to 15 mvdc ) I will record the results of this connection from now on.
I found a hand held digital o-scope for $279. lots but lots less than many others. Is it an OK kind to buy? I really want someone who already owns one to test some coils.
jeanna
@ Jeanna:
Confusing results to be sure. You gave me an idea the other day when you asked for a clarification on if I were shorting the wires or reading between them. (I answered I was reading between them) so, anyway I was a little bored and I started to wonder what would happen if I did short them. Without using a meter I did not notice anything unusual UNTIL I shorted the iron wire to the core on my larger cell. (This had given me the highest mA readings now) Well, the iron wire began to get warm...then warmer and then even warmer still!!! I would not call it hot exactly but way warmer than the copper wire that had been in the same room at the same initial temps. So now, I am going to hook up some thin copper wire (magnet wire) and bridge between the core and the iron wire to see if it gets hot enough to glow or burn through like a fuse or what ever happens. The coils were both damp but had not been wet since my tests earlier yesterday. I know if you short a AA battery like this, the same thing will happen but, it will kill the battery pretty fast also. After my initial attempt at this, I did test the larger cell and it still showed 18mA from iron wire to the core even though it had just been shorted for a while and was not very wet at all. I don't know what this means except that these little cells have some power. I will let you all know how it turns out.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on April 04, 2008, 05:14:05 PM
QuoteSo now, I am going to hook up some thin copper wire (magnet wire) and bridge between the core and the iron wire to see if it gets hot enough to glow or burn through like a fuse or what ever happens.
Wow, I love it. Or maybe a spark bridging the gap? and then the next question is how many and how frequently and can we tune them?
QuoteThe coils were both damp but had not been wet since my tests earlier yesterday.
It is damp in the air here, but my coils take a full week to dry out bone dry in the inside.
QuoteI know if you short a AA battery like this, the same thing will happen but, it will kill the battery pretty fast also.
I did check this out with a battery and those truly dry coils of mine, but with more than 1.6 ohm resistance, the coil doesn't drain the battery very fast.
QuoteAfter my initial attempt at this, I did test the larger cell and it still showed 18mA from iron wire to the core even though it had just been shorted for a while and was not very wet at all.
That is the really exciting part.
QuoteI will let you all know how it turns out.
yes, please.
jeanna
Bill,
You actually did a test I was trying to do but couldn't prove it without a real galvanic coil.
I was using the dry coils I made of tel wire and galvanized steel wire.
Instead of introducing the meter across the 10's I just put a capacitor there. I figured whatever change went on in the 10's could be preserved in the cap.
I had a 2.5v battery connected to the base of the core bolt and the fe 6. There was no voltage that showed up in the cap across the 10's,BUT the bolt got hot
The funny part is I had made this one in the customary way of winding coils - wrap down then straight up. On my one made the way we are making these, it didn't get hot.
so, I wondered and you did it. good going.
I guess to me at the very least it means there is a whole lot of juice going through the system. Again, I will add it is so cool that the coil amps recover right away.
jeanna
I found a hand held digital o-scope for $279. lots but lots less than many others. Is it an OK kind to buy? I really want someone who already owns one to test some coils.
jeanna
@ jeanna
Having a hand held digital O-Scope is OK, for those jobs where a big scope is difficult to be used, and is handy to throw in the car to go to another persons house to compare results.
Does it have a cable that you can hook up to your PC to keep a record of the measurements? some do some dont. If it does, then get it, as the display on the PC will be much bigger. (Check if there was software to drive it also)
I bought another cro, acouple of days ago, when comparing the images, they were the same, but I found the older scope a lot lot easer to read than the new much smaller image.
By all means, get it if you can and if there is no other cro avaliable, did you check out the free software scopes? be careful, some are knobbled to 15 or 30 days, some are only display ones, but there are some that really can do the job.
I have ADHD hence the fast switching and mixing up of topics.
Hoo roo
Jim
BTW, when you short the windings out, and the bolt gets hot, my thinking is it is not electricity you are shorting, but the actual energy stubblfielf accessed, so this tells me that you are on the right track. Might be an idea to get one of those outside temperature sticks (digital thermomiters) that displays outside and inside temperature, put the outside temp thermister onto the top of the bolt with a bit of sticky tape and compair it to the ambient room temp.
Short the cell leads, record the rise in temp every 10 minutes or half hr or so, then when it has peeked, remove the short and see if it returns to normal. Do it all again, to see if it wasnt a fluke reading.
electricme:
Great idea on the temperature comparison. This could be done fairly easily I bet. Then, at least we could quantify our results and compare the recovery time, if any, of the cells.
@ All:
I received news from the other topic I started that Hans is alive and well. No other details are available at this time. This is great news.
Bill
@ Bill
Thanks Bill, I was a little concerned abt Hans.
I will be away for abt 4 days, my grandson is visiting.
Hoo roo
Jim
This is one.
I just thought I would let you know that I am changing names .
It seems that most people capatalise he first letter of a name
In my case that puts me using the exact same name as another person here .
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
Bill and Jeanna
About parts of your batterys heating up .
Did you know that in the big induction furnaces that they use for melting iron there are only 2 windings ?
The primary fills a good share of the furnace ...........the iron they are melting is the secondary .
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I am glad to hear that Hans is OK .
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I hope to have more to post soon .
I am out of here now .
Next stop ...... Lowe's ......in search of copper and stuff
gary
Quote from: resonanceman on April 05, 2008, 12:28:53 PM
Did you know that in the big induction furnaces that they use for melting iron there are only 2 windings ?
The primary fills a good share of the furnace ...........the iron they are melting is the secondary .
gary
No, I did not know that!! wow.
Because of that information the stuff folks say about eddy currents makes a lot more sense.
ALSO, I had an idea the other day to use not an iron stake for the core piece, but an iron pipe. I was thinking about letting the shape do more of a tpu type action. But, now I get what I was thinking that for. If the core piece can let megacharge through and not melt because it is a hole with earth in it...
and the induction will be much better on a bigger circumference...
and you say it is the secondary that heats up and becomes the iron in the furnace? That means they are using iron for the secondary not copper...
wow
Thank you gary this is great information.
jeanna
also,I like your new name - very appropriate.
Quote
Because of that information the stuff folks say about eddy currents makes a lot more sense.
ALSO, I had an idea the other day to use not an iron stake for the core piece, but an iron pipe. I was thinking about letting the shape do more of a tpu type action. But, now I get what I was thinking that for. If the core piece can let megacharge through and not melt because it is a hole with earth in it...
and the induction will be much better on a bigger circumference...
and you say it is the secondary that heats up and becomes the iron in the furnace? That means they are using iron for the secondary not copper...
wow
Thank you gary this is great information.
jeanna
also,I like your new name - very appropriate.
Jeanna
I am not sure that you are gettinng the right picture here .
with the furnace they don't use an iron secondary ...........the iron that they plan to melt IS the secondary.
It works kind of like it is one big single wrap.
Or in your case ......... it works like a spike in the middle of a coil :)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
yes I am sure that eddy currents play a big role in creating the heat
gary
Hmm Gary,
Instead of letting the language get confusing I am going to stay with NS choice of words. Thanks for the clarification. If I understand now, there is only a primary wound around a core in those furnaces, and the iron core melts out/down from the middle rather than a winding around the outside of the primary melting down the outside.
Still, it is relevant and interesting.
thank you.
--------
I see that my small coil that has a zinc coated bolt and a secondary has begun to pull up the voltage.
It now reads
across 5,6
27mvdc
26.6uA
0.00vac as usual.
cu5 to 2dary
399mvdc
5uA
for some reason I never checked shorting the cu5 to the bolt in the ground on this one, today it reads
+35mv to -4mv to +10mvdc
-------------
The nearby iron core with only a primary has settled but now I will take readings when I short the cu to the core too so:
across 5,6
202mvdc
20uA~~> 10uA ~~>? I stopped looking there
Short cu5 to iron bolt:
+15mv -> -14mvdc
+6uA -> -4uAmps
It seems to be the grounded bolt from the coils above ground that gives the plus and minus fluctuations. I will continue to watch this.
jeanna
@ Jeanna:
+35 vdc? Or was that supposed to be 35mv when shorting cu to the iron core? (bolt) If correct that is a huge number! If it is a typo, well, sh*t happens.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on April 05, 2008, 06:46:37 PM
If it is a typo, well, sh*t happens.
Bill
It was a typo. thanks for correcting me. I think I fixed it in all spots.
Quotesh*t happens.
yup it sure does,
I just wrapped another double row and did it real nice.. but it was shorted, so I unsewed 4 layers of cloth and unwound it all just to find out one of the clips had fallen off my meter !!!
aaaarrrrgggghhhh!!!!
jeanna
@ Jeanna:
I am sorry to hear that. I was going to replicate whatever you were doing to get that voltage!!! Oh well, our work continues.
I did a few brief experiments but no results noteworthy to post as yet. I am still doing my taxes over here. I would rather wind coils than do taxes!!!!!!!!!!
Bill
Hi all I did some experimenting today I had a 12? (305 mm) long by ? ? (6.35mm) wide copper pipe north about 7? in the earth and a aluminum 8? (203 mm) long by ? ? (6.35 mm) wide spike south also about 7? in the earth. I got .377 V and .005 MA not a lot of power. I read that someone hook a 9V battery to the earth battery and the power in the earth battery increased for a short time so I did the same for 1 minute and got .775 V and .015 MA after removing the 9V battery. After about ten minutes it drops down to .467 V and .006 MA. I remembered that the copper was supposed to be deeper in the earth then the aluminum so I pulled up the aluminum about 2? (50.8 mm) and got .789 V and .015 MA then it drop to .506 V and .007 MA ten minutes later. Now that I have bored everyone to death let me get to the good part. I saw anytime I moved the aluminum spike up and down I would get more V and MA, so I pulled it in and out of the earth like a piston and cylinder for like 30 seconds, and then I got 1.10 V and .030 MA. After ten minutes it drops to .567 V and .015 MA. I don?t know if it was just static that gave me higher readings or something else. But I think if there is a super cap and a device that can make one of the rods vibrate we might be able to keep the cap full vibrate the rod and get more power. It?s just a guess but I think this is what the make and break does in the NS coil. On a side note, my 9V battery had 8.82 V when I started and 8.84 when I ended experimenting, it might be nothing but I hope there is something to it.
Kevin
Quote from: kevolts on April 05, 2008, 10:01:03 PM
I had a 12? (305 mm) long by ? ? (6.35mm) wide copper pipe and a aluminum 8?
Hi Kevin,
Along while back Bill gave us this information. It really helps. I copied it one day. I haven't a guess as to what page it is on, so here:
The following is a list of metals and their potentials in the earth:
[edit] Metals and Soils
Potential Differences of metals
(Soil Galvanic series)
Metal
... Potential
V Cu/CuSO4 electrode
Magnesium (pure) -1.75
Magnesium (alloy) -1.60
Zinc -1.10
Alluminum (alloy) -1.05
Aluminum (pure) -0.8
Steel (clean) -0.50 to -0.80
Steel (rusted) -0.20 to -0.50
Cast Iron -0.50
Lead -0.50
Steel (concrete) -0.20
Copper -0.20
Brass -0.20
Bronze -0.20
Steel (mill scale) -0.20
Cast iron (high silicon) -0.20
Carbon +0.30
Graphite +0.30
Coke +0.30
Notes:
Non-uniform conditions at node surface
So, you won't expect much from cu and al or fe but you will see a good voltage difference with Zn; and a galvanized nail, bolt or pipe all work.
I wonder what pumping will give you when you start with .7v instead of .3v ?
Quotelet me get to the good part. I saw anytime I moved the aluminum spike up and down I would get more V and MA, so I pulled it in and out of the earth like a piston and cylinder for like 30 seconds, and then I got 1.10 V and .030 MA.
I'll bet your neighbors loved it. ;D ;D I am sure mine have just given up on me.
QuoteOn a side note, my 9V battery had 8.82 V when I started and 8.84 when I ended experimenting, it might be nothing but I hope there is something to it.
That sounds familiar. Didn't one of the guys get a recharge in the source battery? Maybe that person will step forward.
...but .02 on a scale that only reads to 2 decimal places isn't anything you can count. It is considered not a significant number, but keep watching it anyway. You just might watch it go up!
Good going Kevin.
jeanna
I rewound that bolt and it looks pretty good.
I sprayed water on the cloth. cotton this time
The bolt is 1/2 inch diameter and about 8 inch long
690mvDC and still rising
0.8mvAC
10.25 mAmps - yes, milliamps.
The voltage was higher on the first rows but the milliamps was lower.
I can't remember who but I think someone else has a primary like this.
I will wind a secondary tomorrow and stick this into the ground!
jeanna
@ Jeanna:
Heck, don't spray it. Stick it in the sink or the tub. I even measured some of my readings while it was under water. That way, all of the cotton will be soaked through. It just seems you should be getting more juice than that with your size primary there. Seems like it's off by a factor of 1,000 on the volts? mA seems about right with my one coil. I would think you would have ,5 or .7 volts. This is curious. But, mA is better than volts I have heard. mA is power!!!!!
Why are you going to wind a secondary? Unless, have you devised a way to pulse the secondary like we were all discussing? The secondary won't (shouldn't) put out anything unless pulsed with a make/break device. (This is my understanding anyway)
Good job on the mA's Jeanna!!!!!
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on April 06, 2008, 12:27:53 AM
@ Jeanna:
Heck, don't spray it. Stick it in the sink or the tub.
I have always found that it is a bit stronger if it is not completely submerged.
This AM, I filled the jar it is in with water - I use filtered water to remove too many variables - and the reading went down. It was at
645mvdc before soaking.
595mvdc in up to its eyeballs in water. Now after I dumped the water out
647mvdc and still changing.
(the amps went along with the volts this time)
The amount of wetness is crucial, it seems. not too much not too little.
Just to clarify. If I were making a galvanic cell like a couple of silly jokes I posted on this thread, I would be looking for the optimum amount of salt of some sort for the electrolyte in this cell. NS himself says it needn't be submerged but moist is enough, (on p.2 lines 27-37 of the patent he says this.)
QuoteSeems like it's off by a factor of 1,000 on the volts? mA seems about right with my one coil. I would think you would have ,5 or .7 volts.
Tag -- you're IT!
I made this mistake yesterday and you caught it. 645mvdc is 0.645vdc so you see, I am in the same range as you and others with this coil.
Now, please don't make this mistake with your taxes! they don't like that much. ;D
QuoteWhy are you going to wind a secondary? Unless, have you devised a way to pulse the secondary like we were all discussing?
I guess it is a chicken egg thing. I can't go there unless I begin to wind secondaries and play with them in different places. They do change the results of the primary. I am trying to measure and look at how much or how. (I need a few chickens to see if they make eggs) ;D ;D
NS suggested making a secondary on a spool. I have a couple of spools wound with wire that I can slip over a primary. - fit is the main problem with this idea.
On a scrap of paper somewhere, I recorded the volts n amps that this latest coil produced by layers as I was winding it. ( I was just checking for shorts as I went along-- The wound coil was still attached to the packages of wire) But the second layer had more volts(like 895mvdc) and some small number of amps, the fourth layer had less volts but more amps. I think the fourth layer had the highest amps like 13mA, but I need to find the scrap of paper to say. Then voltage kept going down on the next layer but the amps did not increase and on this last layer which is 6th or 8th layer the final reading is less on both counts. I kept winding because I want to see what will happen over time when it is in the ground.
Now, I will check on my chickens outside. ;D
jeanna
@ Jeanna:
Duh! I stand corrected. 645 mvdc does equal .645 vdc. What was I thinking? Gee I hope I did not make that mistake on my taxes either....crap So, you are in the range of the rest of us....that is great.
I just checked my coil (larger one) this morning and it is still putting out over .5 vdc and it feels totally dry! I still can't believe it is just sitting there as a power source. Let's see...is this more volts out than I am putting in? Hmmm....
Input voltage to dry coil: 0.000 vdc
Output voltage from dry coil: .53 vdc.
This looks amazingly like I think overunity would look like. What do others think? This is doing this for days.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on April 06, 2008, 04:38:47 PM
This looks amazingly like I think overunity would look like. What do others think? This is doing this for days.
Bill
Bill
It seems to me that if there is a galvanic reaction going on it is not overunity
I don't think it takes much water to get a reaction .
I am working on testing if I can find anything except galvanac reactions
No luck so far
gary
@ Gary:
I was thinking overunity not perpetual motion. It must be some type of galvanic action but, my coil is dry. (Maybe not 100% deep inside the cotton windings of course) In a galvanic reaction the materials, or at least one of them, gets used up. This may happen but with just water as an electrolyte, it may take years. Also, I am not sure if we should even call the water an electrolyte as I can't measure any conductivity of the water in my sink. (Not pure water, of course) Water, generally speaking is an insulator but yet it is acting more like an electrolyte here.
They are calling the SMOT overunity yet the magnets will only (only?) last about 300 years. The SMOT is not perpetual motion because the magnets will stop in time. This is why I see a difference between overunity and perpetual motion. We are not putting any power into the coils yet pulling power out.
I was just throwing this out there and have no set feelings one way or the other. I just other topics where O.U. is claimed and we are getting more out than they are and not putting anything in. As you might be able to tell, I am still quite amazed by this. Maybe we should construct a super huge coil and apply for Stefan's prize. (grin)
I know people will say that they can stick two electrodes into a lemon and extract electricity but, those electrodes will be eaten by the acid in the lemon and the lemon will not last very long at all. (depending on the load) I think this is different. How different? I don't know. As I said...just tossing this out there for thought.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on April 06, 2008, 10:08:28 PM
@ Gary:
I was thinking overunity not perpetual motion. It must be some type of galvanic action but, my coil is dry. (Maybe not 100% deep inside the cotton windings of course) In a galvanic reaction the materials, or at least one of them, gets used up. This may happen but with just water as an electrolyte, it may take years. Also, I am not sure if we should even call the water an electrolyte as I can't measure any conductivity of the water in my sink. (Not pure water, of course) Water, generally speaking is an insulator but yet it is acting more like an electrolyte here.
They are calling the SMOT overunity yet the magnets will only (only?) last about 300 years. The SMOT is not perpetual motion because the magnets will stop in time. This is why I see a difference between overunity and perpetual motion. We are not putting any power into the coils yet pulling power out.
I was just throwing this out there and have no set feelings one way or the other. I just other topics where O.U. is claimed and we are getting more out than they are and not putting anything in. As you might be able to tell, I am still quite amazed by this. Maybe we should construct a super huge coil and apply for Stefan's prize. (grin)
I know people will say that they can stick two electrodes into a lemon and extract electricity but, those electrodes will be eaten by the acid in the lemon and the lemon will not last very long at all. (depending on the load) I think this is different. How different? I don't know. As I said...just tossing this out there for thought.
Bill
Bill
I am not so sure that there has to be a galvanic reaction
Stubblefield was doing alot more with these batterys than we understand .
He was getting WAY more power than can be explained by ganvanic reaction
Clearly he was doing something else along with the normal battery action .
I am looking for the something else .
gary
Quote from: resonanceman on April 06, 2008, 11:52:54 PM
Stubblefield was doing alot more with these batterys than we understand .
He was getting WAY more power than can be explained by ganvanic reaction
Clearly he was doing something else along with the normal battery action .
I am looking for the something else .
gary
I agree with you.
I am assuming that he was always just starting with a little galvanic. Just to get things going.
Once the tpu was moving it could continue on its own and feed back into the system enough to keep it starting up.
yes?
jeanna
I try to understand those folks in the tpu thread, but I need more physics and EEing and math and... I just figure if NS could do it 100 years ago, we can figure it out too if we work together.
j
Quote from: jeanna on April 07, 2008, 12:33:43 AM
I agree with you.
I am assuming that he was always just starting with a little galvanic. Just to get things going.
At the moment I am assuming that the other effects will at least start out small .
like the AC I was getting on my coil
Right now I am reading everything I can about radient energy
Quote
Once the tpu was moving it could continue on its own and feed back into the system enough to keep it starting up.
yes?
jeanna
I try to understand those folks in the tpu thread, but I need more physics and EEing and math and... I just figure if NS could do it 100 years ago, we can figure it out too if we work together.
j
Jeanna
When I first found this site I looked around and found the SM TPU videos ........I was really impressed
It was my original first choice for a project .
It is kind of hard to follow thhe people there. .......but except the the math I can get through most of it.
I quickly found out thath the people there were following a couple leaders ........and no other ideas were really accepted...........especially from someone with a limited education .
I didn't agree with most of what they were doing.
I am pretty sure that the TPU had an iton winding .
I remember seeing a photo of a piece of a TPU that had been cut up . ...... It did looke like it had an Iron winding.
I think that there is a "special "effect that happens when a magnetic field interact with BOTH Iron and copper windings
The Iron winding would heat up much more than the copper ........I think it was the cause of the reported 19 minute limit
I agree with your idea about adding secondarys .
If I am right about the Iron/copper thing ........any voltage in the secondary will add more magnetic field around the core ........probably amplifying the effect .
I am not saying that just any magnetic field in the secondary will help ........but if it picks up a natural resonance ( AC ) from the copper/iron part of the coul ........it should help feed that resonance
If I am right about this, making the secomndary a LC cercuit would make a big difference ...... so far I have only been able to register that AC is there .......not enough to pin down a frequency
gary
Quote from: resonanceman on April 07, 2008, 09:53:04 AM
I am pretty sure that the TPU had an iton winding .
I remember seeing a photo of a piece of a TPU that had been cut up . ...... It did looke like it had an Iron winding.
I think that there is a "special "effect that happens when a magnetic field interact with BOTH Iron and copper windings
magnetic field in the secondary will help ........but if it picks up a natural resonance ( AC ) from the copper/iron part of the coul ........it should help feed that resonance
If I am right about this, making the secomndary a LC cercuit would make a big difference ...... so far I have only been able to register that AC is there .......not enough to pin down a frequency
gary
Gary,
These are right in line with some of my thoughts. Thank you for joining this thread.
Have you seen NS's patent 887357 ? It is his cell phone invention.
There are 2 very large and he says powerful coils. One is the cell around an area of land and the other is the coil on the vehicle that has the mobile phone installed.(pretty amazing guy, NS)
Fig.3 is a cross sectional view of these (or at least the cell) coils. He does not describe them except to call them large and powerful. This is all he says about them "This coil... consists of an outer casing, withinwhich is placed a conducting wire comprising a plurality of convolutions, each of which is insulated from the other."
Now, having studied this first coil of his, I think the core piece of wire in the drawing is likely to be iron. He has bundled 20 of these "conducting wires" in fig 3 and I suppose fewer but similar in the coils on the vehicles.
My first thought when I saw the cross section was that "plurality of convolutions" was our good friend this NS primary. the center wire in each wire is drawn darker than the rest.
Then he arranges the whole thing in a very large loop - either around a town -or 'cell'- and also on the roof of a vehicle which makes it a tpu like arrangement. It is also somehow its own secondary. (This is coming from my very spatial brain, I cannot really say why I see it as its own secondary, but I
must describe it this way. (Maybe a tpu IS its own secondary.)
So, This cell phone patent may include an advancement of the basic NS battery that we are replicating.
I wonder about the heating in this arrangement.
QuoteThe Iron winding would heat up much more than the copper ........I think it was the cause of the reported 19 minute limit
Perhaps making the iron much thicker or thinner than the copper will help with the heat.
I also wonder about an easy way to find the resonance. Is it time to buy that o-scope? Will I be able to dial into the resonance of my various coils? I am willing to spend a little money on the cheapest hand held one IF it will do this for me.
Does anybody out there know?
Cool thoughts for the day. wow.
now to wind another layer or 2.
(After finishing this one, my next coil is on a pipe - to be hollow - just to see what happens.
Thank you,
jeanna
Quote from: jeanna on April 07, 2008, 01:30:11 PM
Gary,
These are right in line with some of my thoughts. Thank you for joining this thread.
Have you seen NS's patent 887357 ? It is his cell phone invention.
There are 2 very large and he says powerful coils. One is the cell around an area of land and the other is the coil on the vehicle that has the mobile phone installed.(pretty amazing guy, NS)
Fig.3 is a cross sectional view of these (or at least the cell) coils. He does not describe them except to call them large and powerful. This is all he says about them "This coil... consists of an outer casing, withinwhich is placed a conducting wire comprising a plurality of convolutions, each of which is insulated from the other."
Now, having studied this first coil of his, I think the core piece of wire in the drawing is likely to be iron. He has bundled 20 of these "conducting wires" in fig 3 and I suppose fewer but similar in the coils on the vehicles.
My first thought when I saw the cross section was that "plurality of convolutions" was our good friend this NS primary. the center wire in each wire is drawn darker than the rest.
Then he arranges the whole thing in a very large loop - either around a town -or 'cell'- and also on the roof of a vehicle which makes it a tpu like arrangement. It is also somehow its own secondary. (This is coming from my very spatial brain, I cannot really say why I see it as its own secondary, but I must describe it this way. (Maybe a tpu IS its own secondary.)
So, This cell phone patent may include an advancement of the basic NS battery that we are replicating.
I wonder about the heating in this arrangement.
QuoteThe Iron winding would heat up much more than the copper ........I think it was the cause of the reported 19 minute limit
Perhaps making the iron much thicker or thinner than the copper will help with the heat.
I also wonder about an easy way to find the resonance. Is it time to buy that o-scope? Will I be able to dial into the resonance of my various coils? I am willing to spend a little money on the cheapest hand held one IF it will do this for me.
Does anybody out there know?
Cool thoughts for the day. wow.
now to wind another layer or 2.
(After finishing this one, my next coil is on a pipe - to be hollow - just to see what happens.
Thank you,
jeanna
Jeanna
I have not read that patent yet
I will have to spend some time looking at it.
I have downloaded it now ...... Stubblefield was way ahead of his time ...... mobile phones about 150 years before the rest of us even thought about them
Something I am confused about is how it is possable to make the phones recieve onlly the right calls
I remember a picture of a box of coils ......someone said that they were all different numbers
The only way that I can imagine selecting a distant phone is by resonance .
If each seperate line is given a frequency ...... there could be many calls but each phone would only hear one .
It would also mean that you would have to have a seperate coil for every phone you wanted to call .
............................... unless Stubblfield had a way to " dial in" the right variations to a standard coil
I am not even going to guess at the wire construction until I study the patent a little .
I don't have a good way to find the resonant frequency .
I have heard something called a dip meter .
I was thinking of trying to make one .
I haven't found anything about how they actually work yet .
Ham radio people use dip meters for quite a few things .... mostly related to resonance and transmition of RF
The dip meters available are for radio frequency ......I don't want to get into frequencys high enough to get the FCC knocking on my door.
Time to study for a while
gary
I need to make something clear.
I do not know how a tpu works.
Nor, do I know how the NS battery works.
I don't want to steer anybody the wrong way by what I said before.
The other thing is that in the cell phone patent, there is a separate 'powerful' battery for each mobile unit like horse drawn carriage or boat. One assumes a house would also have a unit on its roof. also. The cell wnich is the large loop in the town, has one too. This battery is stated to be used for transmission of the signal.
Each of these things has a battery and a larger loop made up of this complicated wire (fig 3) with multiple strands of many convolutions of wire around a central core wire. Each battery is part of a circuit that looks to me a lot like the joule thief circuit with its own loop and battery..
I don't think he recognized the ability of the large loop as anything more than an aerial at the time of this patent. (And, maybe it isn't anything more than that, but I think it is and I think he used it as the basis for many other inventions that he never patented.)
I do not want to steer this thread away from the NS battery. For one thing, it was his first step. It should logically be ours too. I only wanted to mention it because it is ultimately where NS went with it. until he went silent, that is.
jeanna
Jeranna
I think we have reached almost the same conclusions about the mobile phone system
One thing that we may be seeing differently
Quote
Then he arranges the whole thing in a very large loop - either around a town -or 'cell'- and also on the roof of a vehicle which makes it a tpu like arrangement. It is also somehow its own secondary. (This is coming from my very spatial brain, I cannot really say why I see it as its own secondary, but I must describe it this way. (Maybe a tpu IS its own secondary.)
What you are saying here to me would mean that all the separate wire pairs in the cable are in parallel .
I am pretty sure that they are in series . ......... figure 2 clearly shows the same reciever, transmiter , battery combination ........ it also shows the coil ........it is clearly a continous coil .
This could be done very easily by stringing the from one corner all the way around and back to the starting corner ..........then a simple continuity test will show you the both ends of the same pair .
Find both ends of 2 pair ....and connect them in series
The way I am seeing the secondary is based mostly on my theory but this seems to support it .
Stubblefield never specified more than one conductor .
I agree that the center is probably iron ......... and one copper wire is wound around it as if wrapping a string around it for insulation.
According to my theory ....... the iron will pick up a little bit more of changes in the magnetic field .
This would make it the primary . any flow of current in the iron will be induced into the copper because of the large mumber of turns around the iron .
The coil seems to work exactly in reverse of the furnace we talked about before ....... single primary .......many turns secondary .
DId you notice that both coils are passive except when transmitting ?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
The phone part is interesting ...... and in my opinion at least seems to support my theorys
but I don't want to focus on it .
For now I am focusing on the AC in the iron/copper pair
If I can get enough AC then I can go to step 2 ( a different theory )
To me the DC is just galvanomic . .......the AC is different ......... the AC is uncharted ground
:)
gary
@ Gary:
If I missed this than I am sorry. Did you look at the primary with an O scope? Did that show ac? I have measured ac all along on my electrodes in the garden and we had some discussion about that. I have read, in multiple places, that meters will show ac when none is there. To prove this to myself, I used an analog and digital meter to test....both showed ac. Then, at my father's suggestion, I checked an AA battery and it too show ac at the same amount/ratio as the earth cells. I have not checked the coils for ac as I thought we had gathered/assumed that it was not really there. Someone else a while ago, many many pages back, check with his scope and no real ac.
So, if you have scoped it and it is really there, I will check my new coils also. As you may have guessed, I have no access to a scope at this time.
@ Jeanna:
Remember that Hans had told you that the NS coil was a tpu? He said that the only difference was the NS coil was straight and the tpu (obviously) was a toroid shape. I believe he said something like that...my memory is not so good and there are too many pages for me to want to go hunt for it. Do you remember something like this? Can you help me to remember who checked the ac with a scope back in the old days on our topic? Was it mramos? I believe he said no ac but again, I could be mistaken. Thanks.
Bill
Bill,
QuoteRemember that Hans had told you that the NS coil was a tpu? He said that the only difference was the NS coil was straight and the tpu (obviously) was a toroid shape
I do. I think I will look for it, but my memory is that I said something about it looking like one and Hans said it IS one. and that was all.
Gerry Vassilatos on his web site maintains that NS got pulsed DC.
Ian Middleton made one once and I think he thinks we are seeing ac. Remember how he described a reversal of the galvanic reax into electrolysis?
He didn't actuallysay ac.
Here is part of Ian's explanation:
"...over a period of time the galvanic action would break down the metals into their resective salts and the battery will go dead.
This is where Stubblefield got crafty or was just plain lucky. He took those 10 foot rods (wires) and wound them around a soft iron core. Bifilar style. He would have known this from Teslars experiments.
The galvanic battery now became an electro magnet at the same time. If the galvanic voltage was, as said, true DC then the induced magnetic field in the iron core would also remain static at a given strength.
For the outer solenoid to function an oscillating magnetic field would have to be induced in it. This oscillating magnetic field was brought about by the rapid making and breaking of the primary galvanic circuit.
In Stubblefields day most of the apparatus he used were inductive. Morse key tappers and electro magnetic bells were common. This explains why the batteries lasted so long and were not so quickly destroyed by galvanic action.
When a momentary contact was made across the two wires a current was drawn and a magnetic field was set up in the center core. When the contact was broken, the magnetic field in the core collapsed inducing a back emf. This would create a reverse voltage across the wires enabling the elemental metals to be deposited back to their original electrodes. A bit like electro plating. Much of the success of his batteries was due to the equipement he used them with." - quote from Ian Middleton
------
Last night I finished coil #10 by running out of cu wire :( at row 5 so I went half way down row 5 and back up to the top. So, it isn't really 6 rows.
It gets
750mvdc
13.8mA
pretty good. If I touch it to my little motor that runs on 30 mA of .6 volts, the motor jumps a bit but doesn't turn. I probably need to not run out of copper!
Then:
I wound about 150 winds in 3 rows of green radio shack mag wire
directly onto the stake at the bottom. scraped the ends then I connected one end to the stake itself and the other to the meter and clipped the other side of the meter to the 5cu wire. I saw 1/2 the amount of volts on the cu wire and more than the full amount on the vAC and I think the same amount of amps as without the secondary. When I switched the meter to clip to the iron6 wire the voltage was less than half. I assume this is because of the greater resistance in the iron.
This has to be inductance from the iron stake producing a mag field . The other ends of the wire were hanging in the air!
The idea for this came from the flash circuit which I think this part of the NS battery could be made into.
I will check this more carefully today.
Gary,
QuoteDId you notice that both coils are passive except when transmitting ?
Except that in the words of the patent the coils are responding to the transmitter coil with a comparable wave which is what produces the accurate sound. So, it that is passive, yes.
I hadn't really thought about that complex wire being a series wire, but it sure could be. It is definitely something to look at next.
jeanna
@ All
Got back home again, over the weekend I spent more hours on the NS program.
The main section is ready, have a little work to do in the 2nd section relating to conversions, theres a couple of bugs to iron out, a bit of a tidy up, arrange a final arrangement and it will be ready for you all.
Jim.
I've heard ya'll talk about hotspots and I just wonder if old Stubblefield wasnt in an area with low grade uranium or perhaps even Tourmaline in the ground.
@ MrSpates:
Long ago in the topic (I have no idea where) Hans uncovered an interesting fact relating to your post. It seems that NS used pitchblende to increase the output of his cells. Well, with a little research, Hans discovered that pitchblende is uranium ore!!!! The reason, according to historical records, that NS's wife left him was because three of the children died of then "unknown" illnesses from eating vegetables out of the family garden. A statement from NS said that the same stuff he used to increase the output of his cells also increased the size of the vegetables. This is probably the main reason he died alone. Hans also posted a picture of a light being illuminated by a very small amount of uranium. I will post it here if I can find it in time. This is a sad story but it is probably true. The kids died of what was later termed cancer. So, I guess he was able to make his own "hot spot", but at a terrible price. Murry University sits on the old location of his farm. I have always wondered if anyone has taken a Geiger counter over the area before building the university. (Probably not)
Bill
@ Bill
Thanks for that post Bill. That proves my theory that you can't get any usable power from a coil just by burying it in the ground no matter how its wound, it has to have something more. After all a coil is really nothing more than a transformer and that has to be powered by something. That brings to mind mineral dielectrics. Certain stones like granite,quartz, and tourmaline won't pass electricity but they will hold it if a strong enough current is applied to them. I don't know how they would act as a gathering device for aether in the ground or even if you could tap the stored energy. I don't have a high voltage DC generator yet. An interesting experiment would be to drill a hole in a piece of granite and insert an electrode, then charge the granite with say 20k vdc and bury that in the ground to see if the pre-charged rock might be able to gather currents from the ground and keep it charged, and if your wondering if my way of thinking is pointing toward electrets, you'd be right. Interesting things those electrets.
Quote from: MrSpates on April 09, 2008, 09:31:18 AM
@ Bill
Thanks for that post Bill. That proves my theory that you can't get any usable power from a coil just by burying it in the ground no matter how its wound, it has to have something more. After all a coil is really nothing more than a transformer and that has to be powered by something. .
Mr Spates
Please explain how Bills post is proof of anything.
I see in Bills post evidence that Stubblefield used uranium ore in some of his coils and paid a vary high price fir it .
I see no PROOF in the post that he actually used uranium ore . Just evidence that he did,..
I see no way that even if it was proven that he did use uranium ore how that would prove that no coil anywhere could pick up energy from the earth .
I am always amazed that any shred of evidence that something can't be done is so often taken as sweeping proof ..............but even fairly strong proof that it can be done is picked to pieces ........then disregarded .
I was planning on posting some details of what I have been testing .
Because of your post and many others on this site with similar attitude I have decided to wait a while.
gary
@ MrSpates:
Well, notice I said that NS used the ore to INCREASE the output, not to create it. Heck, I am getting output from my little coils with them just sitting in my living room in a dry condition. Earlier, I posted the numbers both wet and dry and that is a real usable output with no input. So, respectfully, I disagree with your conclusion that the coils will not have any usable output without an input. These are small coils I am playing with and I am confident that once I build larger ones, the power output will go up accordingly. Others on here with larger devices have indeed had much higher power output than I am getting, and that makes sense to me.
As for the NS history I shared (from Hans's research) being accurate, well, I can't really say because I was not there. I have since read several accounts that speak of the same things so I tend to believe it is, or was, true. We are dealing with history here and the information is only as good as its sources. One account I read was written by NS's son, Bernard, he is the little boy in the photos with NS, he survived but recalled the deaths of his siblings. He died not too long ago, (1980's) and was there at the time of the experiments so I consider him a decent source for the info. I guess everyone will have to make up their own mind.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on April 08, 2008, 11:12:07 AM
@ Gary:
If I missed this than I am sorry. Did you look at the primary with an O scope? Did that show ac? I have measured ac all along on my electrodes in the garden and we had some discussion about that. I have read, in multiple places, that meters will show ac when none is there. To prove this to myself, I used an analog and digital meter to test....both showed ac. Then, at my father's suggestion, I checked an AA battery and it too show ac at the same amount/ratio as the earth cells. I have not checked the coils for ac as I thought we had gathered/assumed that it was not really there. Someone else a while ago, many many pages back, check with his scope and no real ac.
So, if you have scoped it and it is really there, I will check my new coils also. As you may have guessed, I have no access to a scope at this time.
Bill
I don't have a clue about the AC
I understand that meters can sometimes have incorrect readings ..
My meter seems to favor .007 volts AC I see that reading alot when checking for AC .
The AC I was talking about was MUCH higher.
WHat was more interesting than just getting AC was that it was sensative to how close I was to the coil .
I didn't write most of the mumbers down .........but I was getting a wide range of voltages .
The variable seem to be me. ........the closer I got to the coil , the higher the AC voltage went .
IF i remember right if I held my hands around the coil it read around .2 V AC
Several times I watched the meter as I backed away .
My movements were still affecting the voltage when I was 10 feet away . ....that was as far as I could get and still read the meter.
I was going try a few other measurements ..... when I bumped my coil and it fell a few inches . That ended the AC readings ........and created a problem in my coil .........now between 5 and 6 I get a reading of around 10 K ohms
The AC readings lasted around a day and a half .
Yesterday I had just changed some connections . I was getting AC for a couple minutes ..........then it stopped .
Yesterday the AC was only .014 V
gary
About the AC voltage:
I find AC voltage that is equivalent to the DC voltage when I measure between the 10's or 5,6. My meter has a low resolution on AC so I cannot get a reading as accurate as the dc or uAmps, but when the dc voltage is over .5vdc, I can see the same thing on the ac.
Now, in my latest 2 coils I got a higher ac than dc reading a couple of times. (That is just to pique everyone's interest) I don't know if it will repeat. I will make a full report, later and it will be there.
I do want to say this interesting thing, I have noticed.
I have been checking for shorts at the end of every winding with either metal in either direction.
(I am using this excellent methid of separating each layer of metal from the next
with a layer of cloth. It makes a secure separation and the galvanic
electricity production seems undisturbed. and for me it is faster. Thank you (is it
Gary's idea?)).
I have found that I can get an accurate reading of the voltage across the coil by checking the terminals even when the rest of the wire is still in the package on the floor!! So, it is possible to know all along how this coil is and potentially when to stop.
----------
Remember the bit of secondary I wound around the spike? and how I got a voltage by measuring across the cu5 wire and one end of the secondary when I shorted the other end end of the secondary to the iron core piece 1? I unwound that wire from the spike and rewound it and therefore used the same amount of wire over a bit of the primary winding. then I shorted it the same way again. Again I got voltage from doing this. I am repeating it here and I will again in a full report later, because this may be coming from inductance caused IN the core piece 1 by the galvanic reaction. (but in itself it may not be galvanic.)
Gary,
I will try again to get those ac readings. I didn't see any yesterday. - low res meter.
jeanna
Quote from: jeanna on April 09, 2008, 02:04:22 PM
About the AC voltage:
I find AC voltage that is equivalent to the DC voltage when I measure between the 10's or 5,6. My meter has a low resolution on AC so I cannot get a reading as accurate as the dc or uAmps, but when the dc voltage is over .5vdc, I can see the same thing on the ac.
Now, in my latest 2 coils I got a higher ac than dc reading a couple of times. (That is just to pique everyone's interest) I don't know if it will repeat. I will make a full report, later and it will be there.
I do want to say this interesting thing, I have noticed.
I have been checking for shorts at the end of every winding with either metal in either direction.
(I am using this excellent methid of separating each layer of metal from the next
with a layer of cloth. It makes a secure separation and the galvanic
electricity production seems undisturbed. and for me it is faster. Thank you (is it
Gary's idea?)).
I have found that I can get an accurate reading of the voltage across the coil by checking the terminals even when the rest of the wire is still in the package on the floor!! So, it is possible to know all along how this coil is and potentially when to stop.
----------
Remember the bit of secondary I wound around the spike? and how I got a voltage by measuring across the cu5 wire and one end of the secondary when I shorted the other end end of the secondary to the iron core piece 1? I unwound that wire from the spike and rewound it and therefore used the same amount of wire over a bit of the primary winding. then I shorted it the same way again. Again I got voltage from doing this. I am repeating it here and I will again in a full report later, because this may be coming from inductance caused IN the core piece 1 by the galvanic reaction. (but in itself it may not be galvanic.)
Gary,
I will try again to get those ac readings. I didn't see any yesterday. - low res meter.
jeanna
Jeanna
If you are talking about winding a layer with one wire leaving gaps then covering it with cotton then winding the second layer in the gaps ........it is a good idea ..............but it is not my idea
It is interesting that you have found that you can take measurements as the coil is wound . That might come in very handy some day tuning coils ........ assuming we find something to tune them to.
I wouldn't expect much AC from a small coil ............but it would be interesting if adding a secondary created more AC in the original windings .
gary
@ All:
About the ac readings. Outside on my multiple electrode set-up I would get about 2.2 vdc and 2.8 vac. If I got (in the beginning) 1.8 vdc I would get about 2.4 vac. There seemed to be a ratio that was pretty consistent. I never paid much attention to it as I figured it was just a meter anomaly, especially when I measured a similar ratio on the AA battery between vdc and vac.
This goes beyond my current (no pun intended) knowledge of electronics but possibly we are seeing pulsed dc at whatever our particular coils natural frequency is? Maybe pulsed dc will show up on a digital or analog meter as an ac reading? This still does not explain the ac reading on a AA battery though. Anyone can try this, take a normal AA bat. and check for ac.
@ Jeanna:
Interesting discovery about the readings when some of the wire is still on the floor on the spools. I think Gary is right in that this might come in handy later on down the road. I just wish I had access to more wire so I could wind a much larger coil. I will one day. I have a fantasy of an NS coil the size of a 55 gallon drum!!! I'll bet that baby would put out some power. I have some pre-wound secondary coils I have salvaged and I might play with them on my smaller coil today. I will let you know.
Bill
Quote from: resonanceman on April 09, 2008, 02:24:30 PM
........it is a good idea ..............but it is not my idea
Maybe Jim, anyway it works well.
QuoteI wouldn't expect much AC from a small coil ............but it would be interesting if adding a secondary created more AC in the original windings .
gary
It is very hard to repeat a test because a little variance in the amount of moisture in the coil makes a big difference to the voltage/amperage of the coil.
I didn't make note of the voltage when I added the secondary to the coil. Too bad. it would be nice to say it stayed the same. Right now the voltage and the amperage are both down a lot like 1/2 the amount I saw before the secondary went on.
It could be moisture, but it could also be that the secondary is messing with the mag field and slowing things down.
Yaknow even if that is true, even tho it is oppostie what we want, it shows something and for such a little secondary (80 turns because the primary is so fat) it is significant to me.
jeanna
Alright folks .....
Can we get back to the earth battery patent and self generating induction coil discussion. Although i enjoy reading speculations id like to stick to the the important things in our current project at hand.
1) Plotting size of coils with just bifilar primary wind and their respective dc outputs
2) Getting a timing mechanism working whether be rotary gap or relay
3) Winding secondary coils and measuring inductance and length
4) starting the primary circuit and running it at different speeds while measuring the AC output on the secondary
These steps will get us to where we need to go. stick with it folks and dont try to run before we can even walk! just slow and steady please stay on topic and we'll get there :)
Joe
Quote from: Localjoe on April 09, 2008, 05:22:21 PM
Alright folks .....
Joe
Hmmm. Joe, that is what I thought I was doing.
I am on coil #10 right now. Did you not see what I said about the secondary? and the comments about measuring while winding?
I have 3 coils in the ground, which I measure every day. one has a secondary on it.
I do not know how to put together this rotary gap thing you are talking about, but many of the things folks have said yesterday and today have given me ideas and have helped.
I would really like to hear about your coils.
I know you have snow, but a couple of coils and a little talk about what you are doing in the bat-house might just help. share some ideas.
Maybe if you start to put together some parts to this gap thing and post your troubles and discoveries etc will be very helpful. - to me anyway.
jeanna
@ Jeanna
That was a general satement so ya know ;) But the order we do those things is critical and without steps 1 and 2 the latter are irrelevant because we cant create the conditions needed for them.
Maybe im taking this for granted that everyone knows this but -- The larger the primary coils are the more dc output will be available on their terminals for the impulse. Without a larger ammt of current in the primary coil there wont be real noticeable results in the secondary coil when we get to running the device at speed.
My current coil reads .859 v and between 15 and 18 ma it has two layers and is approx 8 inches long. There is no reason to be winding secondaries at this point.. i did it before to prove a point and make sure i was leading you all in the right direction and my concept was right confirmed by the ac readings i took. The were small in the .100 to .200 v ac range and some ac current as well. This is small .
It was limited by two factors me not having enough output in my primaries to start with, and the speed limitation of my hands touching the wires and separating them rapidly.
Hope this helps
.. remember others are getting upwards of 80 ma which is 5x my output but still not enough for the real deal , 250 ma - 500 ma .5 amps would be optimal for a good starting point so when i have a little more money from my next job i'll be getiing a bit more wire and doing the same thing did before only ordering the cotton tubing for audio cables this time... should make it 90 percent quicker
Joe
Quote from: Pirate88179 on April 09, 2008, 03:35:49 PM
Interesting discovery about the readings when some of the wire is still on the floor on the spools. I think Gary is right in that this might come in handy later on down the road. I just wish I had access to more wire so I could wind a much larger coil. I will one day. I have a fantasy of an NS coil the size of a 55 gallon drum!!! I'll bet that baby would put out some power. I have some pre-wound secondary coils I have salvaged and I might play with them on my smaller coil today. I will let you know.
Bill
A large on like this?
@ Jeanna:
Yes, that is just about right.
Bill
Quote from: Localjoe on April 09, 2008, 06:41:49 PM
.. remember others are getting upwards of 80 ma which is 5x my output but still not enough for the real deal , 250 ma - 500 ma .5 amps would be optimal for a good starting point Joe
I actually don't remember that and I cannot find where it was posted. I have just looked back for an hour. If you have that information, please quote the date for me - all of us.
I do have a record of how much the amperage rises every row and I very much doubt the reading was not a mistake and that it was microAmps instead of milliAmps. The coil would have to be very very large and fat. I have a few 6 layer jobs here, now. Who was it? was it Sid? or Bruce? or Freezer? I remember those guys having fat coils but I cannot find them today. And they haven't been around for a while.
jeanna
When I run out of copper on this latest coil I will post my indoors results. This latest one is on a piece of pipe to allow a flow of something through the center. I can theoretically fill it later to see the difference between a solid core piece1 and a hollow one.
@Bill,
I was afraid it was. ;D ;D
Quote from: Pirate88179 on April 09, 2008, 03:35:49 PM
@ All:
About the ac readings. Outside on my multiple electrode set-up I would get about 2.2 vdc and 2.8 vac. If I got (in the beginning) 1.8 vdc I would get about 2.4 vac. There seemed to be a ratio that was pretty consistent. I never paid much attention to it as I figured it was just a meter anomaly, especially when I measured a similar ratio on the AA battery between vdc and vac.
This goes beyond my current (no pun intended) knowledge of electronics but possibly we are seeing pulsed dc at whatever our particular coils natural frequency is? Maybe pulsed dc will show up on a digital or analog meter as an ac reading? This still does not explain the ac reading on a AA battery though. Anyone can try this, take a normal AA bat. and check for ac.
Bill
I had a AAA battery handy so I measured the AC
.007 just ike the "normal for no AC with coil .
HOWEVER .............. I had just checked for AC on with my new test . It had measured .007 too.
When I unclipped the leads for some reason I unclipped one then did something else.
WHen I came back I noticed the meter was reading .023 V AC
I got courious and took a few more readings .
AAA battery B lead .012 R lead .055
5 uF cap B .016 R .092
1 uF cap B .010 R .013
From the copper winding of my first coil I got B .012 R 9
Same readings for iron
When connected across these windings I got .007
SO ....... connecting across the winding cancels the effect ..
To make things more interesting ....... I connected one side of my old coil with one side of my new one .
The voltage ADDED
Maybe these are all just meter error readings ......
I don't think so.
I took each of these readings several times ........ if there are errors why are they so consistent?
After thinking about it a while . I think that the readings are not exactly errors .......but probably baseline readings of AC in general ........including RF
As a way of checking out if these readings might be RF I hooked a TV up to my coils
My first coil didn't work good at all .......but then again it is shorted
With just one side hooked up my new coil is one of the best omni directional antennas I have seen.
Does the fact that it is picking up RF change anything ?
I don't think so .
My theory is that the copper and Iron pick up magnetic fields at different rates .
I think that the earth battery does what it does because of these differences .
gary
@jeanna
The layered material separating the layers was my lazy idea, but never the less still an effective one.
i will be using the same method of layered cloth inbetween layers for my next cell but i will be using the winding method from the patent, i will have wire in longer lengths this time around :).
Chad.
Quote from: Localjoe on April 09, 2008, 05:22:21 PM
These steps will get us to where we need to go. stick with it folks and dont try to run before we can even walk! just slow and steady please stay on topic and we'll get there :)
Joe
Joe
Sorry but I don't plan on being on topic according to your list.
In my opinion YOU are trying to run before you learn to walk .
My focus right now is in trying to understand the interaction between the materials .
You created this thread ....... if you want all of us to stay on topic as you define, them I will simply keep my results to myself .
gary
@ Gary:
I just measured another old AA battery and got the following:
1.36vdc
2.2vac
See that? It is the same, or similar ratio I was getting outside on the cells. This may just be an anomaly with my particular very expensive (almost $30.00) super scientific engineering grade (not quite) digital meter. (Craftsman)
OK, so it's not the most expensive meter out there (probably not in the top 1,000) but it is consistent. I never checked a AAA battery but it should be close to 1.5vdc and maybe 2.4vac?
Bill
Chad,
Thank you for your wonderful - hardly lazy- very effective at keeping the thing UNshorted method. A brilliant idea and worth everyone's try.
Gary,
QuoteYou created this thread ....... if you want all of us to stay on topic as you define, them I will simply keep my results to myself .
The person who starts a thread does not own it. Many a thread has gone a way not intended by its starter. I think all of us are grateful to Joe for giving this thread a start- even if he doesn't think we are going where we should.
Your input is vital. Please continue to experiment and share.
This is an
inventors forum. Nobody actually knows what the design was or what exactly was going on in NS's mind . We don't know what less novel inventions NS played with that informed him to be able to arrive at this one. We must find a path that arrives at understanding our own way.
We only need to stay away from devisiveness and internal arguements in this group. We are all important to the outcome. (Did you hear that, Sid?)
Also, anyone else who will try to replicate this after we do get it to work, will benefit from some of the creative digressions. you know, and maybe go and build a cell phone system for a local neighborhood.
The sky is the limit with creation.
;D ;D
jeanna
Quote from: Pirate88179 on April 09, 2008, 08:42:15 PM
@ Gary:
I just measured another old AA battery and got the following:
1.36vdc
2.2vac
See that? It is the same, or similar ratio I was getting outside on the cells. This may just be an anomaly with my particular very expensive (almost $30.00) super scientific engineering grade (not quite) digital meter. (Craftsman)
OK, so it's not the most expensive meter out there (probably not in the top 1,000) but it is consistent. I never checked a AAA battery but it should be close to 1.5vdc and maybe 2.4vac?
Bill
Bill
I checked another couple of batterys ........ still the same .007 on AC
Now I am almost compleatly sure that it is background RF
My meter reads .007 to .010 without anything connected to the leads .
I held my meter close to the computer ....... without anything connected to the leads it was reading .020
DId you try connecting only one lead to a battery ?
gary
Quote from: jeanna on April 09, 2008, 08:53:28 PM
The person who starts a thread does not own it. Many a thread has gone a way not intended by its starter. I think all of us are grateful to Joe for giving this thread a start- even if he doesn't think we are going where we should.
Jeanna
I agree Joe does not own the thread .........but he did create it for specific reasons .
I know that most people don't given much thought or any thought at all to what the person that started the thread intended ................................I think this site would be much better if more people gave it at least a little thought .
SO ...... if Joe wants us to stay on his topic according to his definition I will do so .
gary
You guys minus bill just dont get it
Im not try to start arguments or be condescending. But since i have solid proof of how this works why not replicate like im telling you and enjoy what i have. I guess im trying to share too hard because no one seems to listen.
@Gary
I said the comment about running before walking because i came back after a long weekend to find half shit we have already figured out and half speculation..
All im saying is i wouldn't have gone to this kind of trouble and to keep this going in this direction if i didnt know what i was doing..
i have a great girl ive been with for 5 years a personal computer buisness and a gaming hobby so yea ive got plenty of other stuff i could be doing but im trying to make a difference here. The design i describe works end of story it needs to be scaled up and freq tested. its not rocket science and im just trying to explain to folks that are wasting there time winding secondary coils with no timing mechanism on there primarys.. Just trying to save people time and help everyone discover what i have . So my list is a great place to start if you want results otherwise speculate its no prob but start another thread for the specualtions and keep this one for the updates on the builds this has been said many times before.
Thanks
Joe
Thanks for your last post i jsut caught it , its more a respect thing and im happy you see... im an anal prick at times because im a computer guy, when i see a path that works i like to stick to it if its reliable. I guess thats the same logic i let carry through here.
I know were all here for the same reason but just bear with me in this thread so it doesent get tooo clutterd for newcomers.. imagine what you guys have learend in the past months .. no one wants to read all 46 pages so i guess tahts where im comming from.
@ Gary:
Just tried it with the AA bat. and one lead each.....no reading (0) on both tries.
Bill
@ All:
I think Joe is right. I started another related topic "Stubblefield coils and speculation" where anyone can discuss whatever may be related to our work in this area. This way, we can stay on topic over here and not get side tracked from the goals that Joe started. I see what he is saying and it makes sense. Who knows? We may accidentally discover something that will benefit us over here. Anyone is welcome but please, let's still try to keep the efforts to earth battery systems, Stubblefield coils,etc. or at least things we think might be related in some way.
Joe is right, we need to get the power up on these things. It was either Sid or Georgemay that had the 80 or so mA's. (I think) I think this separate topic will help keep the efforts here more streamlined. See you there, and here.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on April 09, 2008, 09:39:42 PM
@ Gary:
Just tried it with the AA bat. and one lead each.....no reading (0) on both tries.
Bill
Thanks Bill
I guess the differences we are seeing with this is because of the way our particular meters are made
Quote
So my list is a great place to start if you want results otherwise speculate its no prob but start another thread for the
specualtions and keep this one for the updates on the builds this has been said many times before.
Joe
No problem
I have no problem with respect
This will be my last post here until I finish speculating .
gary
QuoteThis will be my last post here until I finish speculating .
gary
Darn.
That is NOT where this should end!!!
I need the input. Maybe you will continue at Bill's thread. I hope to continue to be able to hear your thoughts. I have had a lot of ideas since you started to post here.
I am in fact NOT able to get the results Joe gets.
I wrote this following post this morning then decided not to post it because Joe might feel offended and maybe I am not doing what he is describing etc.
Here it is:
quote from Joe on feb 1
Quote
@All
**The play between the copper and iron wires surrounding the iron core is what produces the effect.. every time i touch my amp meter to it at first it reads between 16- 20 ma... awsome .. but it goes down quick... note well when i take my grnd lead of my meter and touch it on and off on and off of the steel wire it shows the strong 16- 20 reading each time ... so i can see how a spark gap driven by other means could repeat this process much much faster and in turn we would then take the power of the single wire that is called the secondary wrapped around this whole cell #4 which is recieving the flux from the mechanical pulsing of the primary.. . im thinking the rate at which the spark gap fires the circuit will be the freq of the secondary current, call it pulsed dc or ac at that point. thats what were going for. And im sure that certain freq/speeds of the gap will yeild far better results in our secondary so lots to play with folks once we get there.
Joe, I just never get antthing more than the same number of amps I get when clipping the ground lead of my meter to the steel wire. In other words, I can get 20 uA from a single wind or 5 mA from a 2 layer wind or ... all the way up to 13mAmps on a 6 layer NS coil body1, but I never see a pulse that is higher than this. And, I get this number wether I hit it or clip it.
I think this is a big part of my confusion with your thesis.
I am NOT saying your thesis is wrong.
I just can't get this part of it to work the way you have described it. The only time I can get something to drop is when the
spike is in the ground and I short the cu5 wire to that spike. Then the voltage drops. If I just hold it , then it seems to cycle. If I clip it the voltage and amperage both drop
down to a number that stays there until I UNshort it then it returns to normal.
---------------
If a spark gap that cycles the charge to zero is all there is to this invention, then I submit that we could take 2 pairs of probes in the ground (cu-zn, cu-zn) and instead of fully connecting them in series, set up a wire that has a very small gap that will short and unshort x times/sec to a series connection and get the same results. Because we know that instead of series giving us an addition, we get zero voltage/amperage. We could set up a lot of these in a parallel way and jiggle the connection with a switch. It may be a thing to try for folks who want to stick metal in the ground and take it into another direction, but IMHO, I think it is more limited than this coiled up thing.
jeanna
@ Hello All
Woke up this morning with a head-ake, feeling yuk. :(
I feel left out not having wound a NS coil, but am reading the posts trying to understand whats happenning, in some ways that is good as I can look at results from a distance and have an unbiased opinion. You are all interresting people. ;D
I can see the frustration you all have, but keep going......if you need a couple of days to take a break, do so, but dont stop.
Every weekend I try to take a break from home and get away to recharge my batteries :) and I feel much better to tackle the next day.
@ Bill, I havent heard from you, did you get my message?
I saw the monopolo video you posted on U tube, very nice, the bolt and magnets must a became a gyro as it did not flick away but just hung there at those huge RPMs. Bill, could you paint a white line on the magnetics to make it more easier to see it spinning up or down? I like your commentary, you explain them well.
Some days back, I read those who had no snow around their in ground connections, I found that fasenating, I said to myself, hmmmm what was happenning here? Obviously there is some force reacting with physical snow, I wonder what?
(I havent ever seen snow) our winter time is approaching and it gets down as much as -5 some nights.
Im getting fustrated with my software, ::) hence the delay, carnt seem to get 1 section to calculate right and clarion user group is not returning my requests for help, the only person I could go for ideas has left for other pastures, so It's up to me, myself and I. lol
Just had a brain wave, has anyone ever magnitised their iron wire, "before" winding it. :)
@ jeanna, how are you going with the hollow iron pipe?
hay everyone, this is a very very special group, In the very short time I have been involved with you all, I have seen astounding results from every member of this group, every single person (past & present) is special and a specialist in their very own way, and in their own right.
Some have degrees, some dont, like me. Some are highly educated, some are not, like me.
If someone makes a mistake, or miss reads a figure, and posts it on the forum, then so what, we are all big enough to know a mistake has been made, the way one answers to rectify that matter is called diplomacy.
Being gentle in pointing out a mistake is an art form in itself.
If you think someone is having a difficult day, send them a personal note to cheer them up.
Thats what makes learning so interresting.
PS, after reading my 1st 2 posts, I thought, opps, I made a mistake, because of the length of those posts I thought I was hogging so please accept my apology.
lets keep our eyes focussed on Nathan Stubblfield.
Jim
Quote from: electricme on April 09, 2008, 10:42:48 PM
@ jeanna, how are you going with the hollow iron pipe?
Jim
The hollow pipe is the one called #11.
I am getting slightly better readings than I got with the prevoius one/s. I think it is because the windings are fatter not because it is hollow. There is more inductance (higher henries L ) with a fatter diameter. I assume that is the reason for the slight improvement now.
I made it hollow to see what happens when it is stuck into the ground. But, this one is getting the whole package of 100 ft. of the wire. I am guessing I will be able to wind 9 or 10 layers with this cu wire.
I posted the pic on Pirate's new page. not sure where to continue.
jeanna
Jeanna the whole point of this invention is a solenoid coil that is self generating with a primary consisting of a bifilar coil arrangement. How would the steaks and timing mechanism produce the same results? or the embodiment of the invention to be either or the battery or transmitter.
That statement i made is only applicable when using a meter set to amperage reading , The way it reads amperage is the current flow through the meter so by touching that lead on and off i was making and breaking a circuit as well as reading amperage. If i had done this on voltage it would have been useless as the voltage measurement function does not complete the circuit.
The repetitive making and breaking of the primary induce a magnetic feild inside and outside the primary coil , the speed the field is created and collapses is what the timing mechanism controls . These properties are unique to solenoid coils wound in this fashion / Transformers. The reason this thing is self generating is because the earth keeps the cloth moist to provied the inital voltage in the primary for the relay to start and thus the ac power in the secondary is created via the expanding and collapsing magnetic field. The field strength is determined by the dc output in the primary.
So no the rods and the rotary gap arent all thats too this device . none of this is speculation just physics and quotes from the patent. Yet i do agree that something along those lines should be studied further.. hence my inital exp where one rod was placed then walked in a circle to find the hot spot for the second rod testing along the way.. there must be a reason for that so if you have ideas for it feel free to keep them here
Joe
@ Jim
Thank you for the kind words and im sure the rest of the folks share that notion.
@ALL
Did i mention that i have real bad adhd and find myself pacing sometimes when frustrated.
Sometimes I find I need to write a rare Unkle Jim letter
This one of those occasions.
@ Jeanna
Hi there jeanna, this is unkle Jim here now, ;D I read you.
I think you have reached the point of, "whats the bother with it all!!!"
Dont' give up mate, it's worth the prize in the end, and that prize is knowing that you were actually involved in the research. Jeanna, we all have a low spot and you are no different to myself or any other person.
In my apprentiship days (about 37 years ago) I once saw a fellow worker do this.
He had been working on just one truck starter motor all day long, everytime he went to test it, it had a fault, it just would not run.
About 2.00pm, with a loud shout that came from deep down inside himself, he wrenched the starter motor out of a vice with all his strength, lifting it high above his head, and hurlled it right through the luver glass panes in front of himself. c u r a s h, t i n k l e t i n k l e went the glass.
Of course, what he did was wrong, he agreed to repair the damage, cleaned up the shards, and afterwards over "smoko" we had a good old laugh about it all.
Even the boss saw the funny side of this incident.
So Jeanna, you (and others) may be feeling the blues just now, it will pass.
I for one have been taking a lot of interest in the results you have been getting with your coils, you are consistant, you don't give up, you are like a terrier, once you get hold of something, you don't let go until you get the result.
You present new idears, suggest new ways to try and back up your statements with results.
That is appreciated by all of us.
Without a doubt, everyone on this forum respects your work and the effort you take, so chin up jeanna.
It is mainly because of you that I am writing this program, it is almost ready.
unkle jim :)
@electricme:
I'm sorry. I will go back and check for the message. If, for some reason, I can't find it, feel free to send it again. I look forward to seeing the program. Thanks.
@ Joe:
Thanks for re-explaining your experiments. I think I followed you the first time but, now it is more clear. (I need all the help I can get) I agree about the secondaries. They "should" produce nothing unless pulsed. (make/break) I am going to read up more on pulsed dc as well as bifilar coils and transformers. Do you think there is a better core material than iron? I was thinking of trying ferrite. Do you think a larger core would play a bigger role here? There are so many variables I just don't know which way to go.
Bill
@ Joe
Hello joe,
Thankyou for admitting about your ADHD, it takes guts to front up and say so.
Yep having ADHD is a blessing, or curse, it just depends on how we cope with it.
I know all about ADHD, someone can talk to you about a topic and in 10seconds flatt have forgotten it.
I also have ADHD, was the dunce in the class, repeated grade 1 and grade 5 in primary school, didn't do any better in high school either.
If someone tells me their name, 10 seconds later it's as though I have never been told it.
For my final exam in HS I decided it wasn't all worth the effort, so I asked the teacherr for a A4 sheet and drew up a cutaway profile of a terbo prop jet engine instead. The teacher just nooded at me, but several times he came back to me to see how I was doing.
Yep, I know exactly where folks are with ADHD, I was diagnosed when I was 50.
I don't mind folks know this, its as though I have a leg or hand missing, and I just take it in my stride.
I believe Tesla and Einsteign had this also, so we are in good company.
One thing about ADHD, is, the person suffering from it will excell in the profession they have taken up, they will be very very good at it, some people won't be able to work logically how they think or do things, but things get done their way.
For instance, I see no problems in having a diet of biscuits or lollies, we swap the topic at the slightest instant, we can have several projects going at any one time, nothing seems to get completed, but thats just us.
At my house, there is chaos big time, books piled up in piles everywhere (another symptom) nothing is logical.
Both my cros are doing their thing in the kitchen, the wife is being looked after in another town as she is crook, the kids are all grown up and have their own lives, so I got the rain of the house, ha ha.
I take medication for this the morning, by now, well hmmmmm ha ha.
OK Joe, I betta hop off and get to town.
So there you have it, some times we go overboard but usually it takes a lot for a reaction.
So those who are reading this, have a ADHD search on the web and you will begin to know why we react the way we do.
This is way off 1st base so I'll better go while the going is good.
Got a 50klm trip to buy some milk and tukker.
hoo roo
jim
@electricme:
I searched and did not find any message from you. This may easily be my fault. Please resend it and I will be happy to reply. I agree with your post about the adhd. Everyone has something they have to deal with. I too have something that helps me to be very creative, but does not help me to fit into society easily. I have suffered from anxiety attacks for almost 18 years. The good news is that people with this that have the hardest time are very creative (which I would not trade for anything) the bad news is that it sucks. I agree with the statement you made about coming out with it in the open. As I said, we all have something and this is life so we have to deal with it. I am not complaining. Just sharing. You all are good people and I like that about this site.
Bill
Quote from: electricme on April 10, 2008, 12:37:43 AM
Thanks, unkle jim
I must say that I probably won't be buying a pc to run your program. I am sure others will use it.
You are such a hero for making it.
If I could find an older laptop for the price of that hand held o-scope (200) I might buy one but 595 at wallyworld is the cheapest and I just don't want to do it.
thank you,
jeanna
Quote from: Localjoe on April 10, 2008, 12:26:45 AM
Jeanna the whole point of this invention is a solenoid coil that is self generating with a primary consisting of a bifilar coil arrangement.
yes, I realize that
QuoteHow would the steaks and timing mechanism produce the same results?
They wouldn't I was just seeing that it could have been a precursor idea.
Quoteor the embodiment of the invention to be either or the battery or transmitter.
I don't understand what this means
QuoteThat statement i made is only applicable when using a meter set to amperage reading , The way it reads amperage is the current flow through the meter so by touching that lead on and off i was making and breaking a circuit as well as reading amperage. If i had done this on voltage it would have been useless as the voltage measurement function does not complete the circuit
.
I get zero when I do that. I have tried it with every coil I have made. Over time I have also tried every possible combination of wires to try this with in case I misunderstood you.
I get zero. no make and break. It sounds good, but I haven't been able to see it with my coils.
I am pretty sure I get the theory. --pretty sure.
thank you,
jeanna
@ Bill
@ Joe
need you both to email me your contacts as they are blocked. :D
Got the software ready for evaluation for you both. ;D
I'm hitting the sack 11.16pm here
jim
@jeanna
Send me the model number of your mac as in g4 g5 wich are power pc or is it a new intel mac. If its a new one i can send you a free copy of parallels that will let you install linux or xp in a virtual program on your mac, otherwise if you have an older mac i would say the new virtual pc program would work well for you and a windows 2000 install should suffice. im assuming your running osx 10.4 or above if not tell me.
@Jim
Thanks i sent you my info.
Joe
Quote from: Localjoe on April 10, 2008, 01:12:57 PM
@jeanna
Send me the model number of your mac as in g4 g5 wich are power pc or is it a new intel mac. If its a new one i can send you a free copy of parallels that will let you install linux or xp in a virtual program on your mac, otherwise if you have an older mac i would say the new virtual pc program would work well for you and a windows 2000 install should suffice. im assuming your running osx 10.4 or above if not tell me.
Joe
Oh how sweet. Thank you.
Powerbook G4 1 GHz OSX10.3.9
Other info that sometimes helps:
(512 MB DDR SDRAM I got it in 2004
I have 18Gig left available)
jeanna
@ Jeanna:
I have an old panasonic toughbook with similar specs. Heck, last year I bought, from Walmart, an e-machines pc with intel chip and board for $300.00. It is 3.2ghz and I am over-clocking it to 4.2ghz and has 1.5 gig of ram and two drives. (160 gig ea.) I added the other gig of ram and the second hard drive but, for not much money, I have a decent, fast machine. This was reduced as it was when the dual-core processors were just coming out.
Of course, now if someone told me I could get an even better one for $50.00, I would not have the $50.00, so I understand about budgets. If Joe can help you with that software that would be cool. I was just posting this to show that someone can get a decent machine, put a little into it, and not spend a lot of money.
Bill
Good for you bill .. at least one other tweaker here. Check out newegg.com if you dont mind piecing together a system there the hands down best site ive ever dealt with . Awsome prices .. none are listed with rebate included .. which is cool. I order all my parts for custom builds there and the service and reviews are awesome.. highly recommended.
Joe
@ Joe:
Thanks. Yes, I know about newegg....fantastic prices on everything! I have used them before. If I try to buy something locally, they are close to half the price so even with shipping, still a huge savings. One of these days, I want to build a system with one of the dual core chips. (Intel code name: Conroe) I don't really do any gaming but the new boards that work with this chip are very flexible and tweakable. That machine would probably last me into the next 5 years or so, even though they now have released the quad core chips which to me are redundant as not too much software out there that knows how to utilize them. I'm far from an expert but I fool around and try things. I was just amazed that when I tested my cheap e-machines system on pc pitstop's benchmarking tests, it said it was one of the fastest systems they had tested to date. I know people who have spent $6,000 or more on "super" gamings systems that don't score that well. Of course, I don't keep it overclocked all the time, no need for it. It probably is not doing my chip and good, ha ha. It only went up like 2 degrees according to my software that monitors all the temps. (HDD Thermometer and Speedfan)
Joe, a thought. Would it be possible to use a PROM chip instead of a 555 for our make/break solid sate devices? We could program multiple speeds or frequencies into the PROM could we not? I'm over my head but I was just thinking about the way the cars use them for a lot of functions.
Bill
@ Joe
@ Bill
@ Jeanna
yep in the mid 90s I put together my own PCs it's a bit difficult on a pension, :D but I make doo, I travel around a bit and do the dumps.
I phoned the local council years ago, and asked them would they mind? when I was making my telescope, they said thats OK, as long as you wear industrial boots, it helps if they know you also, one of the councilers I knew in New Guinea before (54 or 5) I came south for good in 73.
People out this way just throw PC gear out in the dump when they update, or if the town is having a council roadside cleanup, (rich pickings) the latest thing is to buy new LCD wide screens, so it's the turn for all the CRT monitors to be chucked away, amazing as it may seem. Could be the trend in USA?
It always pays to keey one spare monitor for emergency on standby, bit like a spare mouse n keyboard.
After the farmers get their twice yearly check, they go and buy up big time, amazing.
Two weeks ago I found 5 PCs in one dump, in 1 day. 3 had 40G HD, 1 had 15G drive, other didnt. there was RAM, 2 were P4 MBs. Most were missing something, but I got enough to make at least 2 complete PCs. No Monitors, except for 2 which were totaled.
So I left them.
Abt 4 weeks ago I got a BIG 21" IBM monitor, it has 2 scratches on the screen coating, but works, I had seen it and thought it was a TV set, and so was about to pass it by, you can get lucky.
It smelled a bit so off came the back, washed the stink away in sudds, dried it and put it back on.
2 years ago I found a 3 wheel gopha (people mover) at my local dump, made some enquiries, found out it really had been dumped, soldered a couple wires back on the controller board, put second hand batteries on it, and away it went, nothing like the real flash ones, but it works. Got it registered and gave it to the wife to use.
Jeanna, I've given about 7 PCs away in the past, wish there was someway I could help you with a PC, but I can see Bill and Joe are much closer for help. Yes, try that emulator, get in touch with a local computer user group if you need fast help, or better still, search them out and send their email or web site address to me.
Hey boys, have you got the program working yet?
I'm going to take a look at this newegg site right now.
hoo roo
jim
All right group,
I have not been able to make the table button produce a meaningful table. I don't remember how the html rule for tables goes maybe, or maybe the button doesn't work.
So, the best solution I can think of is to make a spreadsheet and take a screen shot of it and post it as a pic. Maybe someone can suggest a better solution?
So, this is one screen page worth. I want to get your take on it please.
Is it readable ?
Is it too boring to bother to read?
stuff like that, please.
Thank you,
Jeanna
a gif and a pdf:
Its a nice progress chart Jeanna, very clear and readable. You could have added a couple more columns saying if it was wet or dry or buried or above ground........wait a minute! I was referring to the post. The link now is sorta blurry and not really readable.
Quote from: MrSpates on April 12, 2008, 12:18:33 AM
.......wait a minute! I was referring to the post. The link now is sorta blurry and not really readable.
o darn! I just made another blurry one. here is more of the chart anyway,
jeanna
BTW all these are moist and outside in the ground about half way up. #3 is only 3 1/2 inches long. look at how it is starting to come up. charging if you will.
really fuzzy, huh?
Again, a gif NO pdf
@ Bill,
I just sent you a Beta of CELLINFO
There is just 1 set of entries, for an example
I need to know approx just how many entries everyone makes during the day.
If you make 3 set of entries, then 3 it is
If you need more then no probs.
@ Joe,
I like your spread sheet, not bad at all, I never could figer them out ha ha.
jim
somehow I remember someone telling me if you attach a (just one) AA (standard Walkman battery) to the toes and at the other end to the fingers the person dies... (kind of a electrolytic function or so) would you really wana do that to earh....
Someone got you good...
Quote from: Jestrue on April 12, 2008, 08:44:02 AM
to the toes and at the other end to the fingers the person dies.
no way.
try it! ;D ;D
jeanna ;)
jest it surely is true ;D
but jeanna
your still alive did flaming lightning bolts emmit from the battery terminals .. thats all i could envision
@ Jim:
Thank you. I received both of the programs but have not had a chance to try them as of yet. I have some financial issues I am taking care of at the moment. I appreciate your taking the time to make them and I will give them a try. Thanks.
@ All:
In case you have not seen the "Where is Hans" topic today, ecc posted that he saw Hans and had a beer with him the other day. Hans is fine and just taking a break. He was out in the bush for a while but said he will be back on the internet soon. This is more good news and I just wanted to pass it on.
A single AA battery can kill you? I don't think so. They use like three of them in a 200,000 volt stun gun and that won't kill you. Besides, we are taking the power from the earth not putting power in.
Bill
mmm joe, lightning bolts coming from my fingers? sounds like fun. wave your hands around and ...
I was rewriting the coil spreadsheet and saw that I made a mistake on the micro amps. I have been changing it for the last while. Here is today's gif. see if it is better
jeanna
I have changed the previous posts with the other spreadsheets on them. just gif's but bigger print.
Quote from: Jestrue on April 12, 2008, 08:44:02 AM
somehow I remember someone telling me if you attach a (just one) AA (standard Walkman battery) to the toes and at the other end to the fingers the person dies... (kind of a electrolytic function or so) would you really wana do that to earh....
Are the fingers and toes connected in series or parallel?
I took some pics of coil 9 before I returned it to the garden, ;D
The red secondary has 390 turns and is made over a 'candle' which is a thing sold to look like the candle in a candelabra light fixture. It is nylon (polyamide) plastic, if I remember. It fits snuggly over this number 9 coil.
After I put the secondary over the coil, I covered it with plastic bag material and taped that down. (not exactly mica, but it will have to do. ;) )
The big 'washer' is made from a cottage cheese tub lid.
In the pic with the white plastic over the coil you can see coils 10 -with the black tape- and 11- which I posted on the Stubblefield bifilar thread.
Number 9 is already in the earth and numbers 10 and 11 are waiting for their secondary's.
You can follow the progress of number 9 on those spreadsheets. The wire size details etc are there.
jeanna
@ Jestrue
nice to hear from u
is that a flatttt batt or have we got a liveee one ha ha
@ Joe
skype is now on the system & web cam installed
try electric.me
@ Jeanna
Nice coils you have there, oh I like the work bench, just like mine
go na think about making a winding jig shortly, used to use one back in my electrical app days.
but to make it to accept different length rods, it'l have to have a sliding top end, hmmmm
I'll finish the SW first though, if I have too many things going at once, it wont get done.
Jestrue:
What the heck are you talking about? No one is hurting the earth here. Exactly the opposite. I have no idea what you are talking about.
Bill
***Duplicate Post***
%%/.Removed by author %%/.
Error code 47
G'day all,
Ok guys, problem solved. I worked out how to kill someone with a AA battery. It took a while but I knew I could do it.
Load the battery into a muskette. The thing will be lethal at 20 yards. ;D ;D ;D
Mind the re COIL though. :D
Ian
@ Ian:
That's genius!!!!
Bill
@ Ian
Way out man, just drop batts on the enemy, make sure thay are flatt
jim
@ hello All
well I have just been doing a little experimenting with the cu & Al pipes in the ground
I have the scope connected to them, I decided to connect the ordinary old run of the mill garden LED light to it, similar to what Bill did on his UTube video.
There was NO 1.5 v battery, the solar cell is removed, the white LED lit quite brightly and was pulsating, haven't measures the current its drawing, but the voltage is .50 volt.
Now the exciting bit
I got a ordinary X mas tree light (1 bulb) and connected it along with the LED setup, while the LED was lit up, and the "bulb" began to glow, ever so weekly.
The bulb pulsates weekly alongside the LED and I can see the waveform on the cro pulsating at the same time.
current drawn 2.0ma
If I connect the Xmas light on its own, nothing, no light, it seems only to occur when the LED is connected in the circuit.
The LED circuit must be "pumping" or "exciting" the NS setup outside.
Jim
Quote from: electricme on April 14, 2008, 09:59:02 AM
cu & Al pipes in the ground
I have the scope connected to them, I decided to connect the ordinary old run of the mill garden LED light to it, similar to what Bill did on his UTube video.
There was NO 1.5 v battery, the solar cell is removed, the white LED lit quite brightly and was pulsating, haven't measures the current its drawing, but the voltage is .50 volt.
I don't get it. Is it possible for the scope to be putting electricity through your probes? In the first place, there is very little potential difference between Al and Cu - a lot less than 0.5V- so, I can't get to the rest of what you are saying, yet.
Quotecurrent drawn 2.0ma
If I connect the Xmas light on its own, nothing, no light, it seems only to occur when the LED is connected in the circuit.
The LED circuit must be "pumping" or "exciting" the NS setup outside.
You said like what Bill did. Did you use a supercap too?
And, did I miss your description of a NS style bifilar coil body1 ?
Please clarify this for me. It seems that you are describing 2 different battery set ups. But I am not sure.
thank you,
jeanna.
@Pirate88179
&
@electricme
ok guys what your trying is honorable but are you sure that it is the right approach? Do you really think that you can get energy out of the earth without having some chemical reaction?
I would say the chemical reaction which happens in the earth is probably something like that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolysis
Or how else can you enplane that???
And about the Battery killing thing... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolysis read the part Electrolysis of water. (to remind you... the human body persist mostly out of water... )
@jestrue
Are you scared to wipe your butt after you poop for fear of infection?Ã, You seem to lead life in fear from your comments .. Open the door to that big sunny world and start living man..Ã, Ã, What were doing here is not harming the earth .. Im a Dead head/ phish loving hippie i enjoy the culture and party i'll be real as well as cleaning the concert grounds after a festival.. I do computer work for real life money and work (if ya enjoy it and it pays.. mine as well) and this electronic stuff on the side for fun .. so trust me im not out to harm the enviroment bro......Ã, We'd acctually be helping people create less harm on the enviroment by using this power souce.. The NS EARTH BATTERY
The rods in the ground..... your nuts dude how may people have you seen with metal posts for there flowers to hold them up strait.. do you say that stuff to them.. its just wild if you really think and believe the stuff youve said to us.Ã, Please be constructive here.
Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Ã, Joe
PS .. Go touch a 9v batt to your tounge STAT !!! Only for a second. tell me if you explode.. i wonder mannn maybe right
Sorry if this sounds harsh but im ROTF Laughing my ass off if your serious
@Jeanna
He exlplaind that pretty well .. read it exactly how jim wrote it ;) :-X
@jim
Cool ! how close is your local substation for power and what freq range was that repeating ringing wave spaned across
on your scope. Just want to double check before i go asking ya more questions about it :)
Joe
Quote from: Localjoe on April 14, 2008, 01:54:20 PM
@Jeanna
He exlplaind that pretty well .. read it exactly how jim wrote it ;) :-X
@jim
Cool ! how close is your local substation for power and what freq range was that repeating ringing wave spaned across
on your scope. Just want to double check before i go asking ya more questions about it :)
Joe
If you think so, tell me please,
does he JUST have 2 pipes in the ground? Al and Cu?
does he have a NS battery TOO? (I didn't think he made one yet) yet he refers to a "NS battery setup".
jeanna
@Localjoe
Did you even read the wiki entry... I never sad that you explode... do i have to spell everything out for you...
Ok, hold a nine volt battery to your Tongue... can you tell me what happens there?
The (salt) water on your tongue splits to hydrogen and oxygen witch isnt bad becaus its not in you blood stream just at the surface of your body. But the same reaction would happen in your blood streem and im sure you wuldend have gas in your blood streem. (else ask a doctor to give you a "air" Injection. (he wouldent, because he would kill you!) see my point with that??
The other thing. If you can produce electricity out of "nothing" your a magician... Im also not a physician or electrician but ther must be some kind of chemical reaction and in most of the chemical reactions there is waist...
(is there anyone out there who understands what I mean an is able to explain it in a proper English? for stuff like this my English isnt good enough!!!!
I haven?t read the 47 pages that this post has. Little by little, I will be reading all. I only can contribute to this, showing a device that I have thought and I have designed in the picture program.
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg296.imageshack.us%2Fimg296%2F3318%2Fwaterblockjpgdt5.th.jpg&hash=385df6e0efb4d9c7f00d2934725a9499f147d852) (http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=waterblockjpgdt5.jpg)
I?m writing about this in Half-Baked Ideas.
Quote from: Jestrue on April 14, 2008, 02:40:50 PM
@Localjoe
Did you even read the wiki entry... I never sad that you explode... do i have to spell everything out for you...
Ok, hold a nine volt battery to your Tongue... can you tell me what happens there?
The (salt) water on your tongue splits to hydrogen and oxygen witch isnt bad becaus its not in you blood stream just at the surface of your body. But the same reaction would happen in your blood streem and im sure you wuldend have gas in your blood streem. (else ask a doctor to give you a "air" Injection. (he wouldent, because he would kill you!) see my point with that??
The other thing. If you can produce electricity out of "nothing" your a magician... Im also not a physician or electrician but ther must be some kind of chemical reaction and in most of the chemical reactions there is waist...
(is there anyone out there who understands what I mean an is able to explain it in a proper English? for stuff like this my English isnt good enough!!!!
Ive tested 9v 's that way my whole life to see if they were dead or not...... im still kickin
Besides ... weve been through this electrolitic dicussion our cells produce less when salt is added to the water which concludes the water is acting as a dielectric not a electrolyte
Quote from: electricme on April 14, 2008, 09:59:02 AM
@ hello All
well I have just been doing a little experimenting with the cu & Al pipes in the ground
I have the scope connected to them, I decided to connect the ordinary old run of the mill garden LED light to it, similar to what Bill did on his UTube video.
There was NO 1.5 v battery, the solar cell is removed, the white LED lit quite brightly and was pulsating, haven't measures the current its drawing, but the voltage is .50 volt.
Now the exciting bit
I got a ordinary X mas tree light (1 bulb) and connected it along with the LED setup, while the LED was lit up, and the "bulb" began to glow, ever so weekly.
The bulb pulsates weekly alongside the LED and I can see the waveform on the cro pulsating at the same time.
current drawn 2.0ma
If I connect the Xmas light on its own, nothing, no light, it seems only to occur when the LED is connected in the circuit.
The LED circuit must be "pumping" or "exciting" the NS setup outside.
Jim
@jeanna
He was just describing a possible action of how the cell would work.. Let me simplify his exp for all it shows two good points
1) The voltage present in the two rod setup must be ac , this is confirmed by the scope shot to start and the real conformation is this
2) The reason the christmas light will only light up with the diode in line with it is because the diode is rectifing the ac current to dc. Still we could take this further hes only rectifing a quarter or half wave with 1 diode full wave rectifiers have 4 to 6 diodes. The light from the led is just a pleasent byproduct.
So waht we have learned here is that diodes will rectifiy more power here because its ac current and voltage were reading from the ground. Where as unrectified the freq was not resonate of the christmas light so it did not light.
Quote from: Jestrue on April 14, 2008, 01:11:26 PM
jestrue,
Do you need a copy of the Stubblefield Battery Patent?
What we are doing now has pretty much nothing to do with sticking probes into the ground. I stuck a LOT of probes into the ground and I have learned a lot by doing it, but this thread is on to something more now.
I recommend that everyone should start out by sticking a few probes into the ground, rather than
just reading the thread, but that is just my preference for learning hands on.
The NS battery is very complicated. I think we have an idea where it is going, but we
also don't have a clue where it is going. It is always giving surprises.
So, if you want to join in the fun, please do.
If you just want to throw peanuts from the peanut gallery then please either stop, or go somewhere else.
Thank you,
jeanna
let me know if you need the patent
Joe,
Thank you for that explanation.
The truth is, however, that I was unable to either light a led with cu to zn at .7vdc nor collect it and throw it into the circuit using a supercap the way Bill did .
jeanna
@ Jeanna,
Q Can the scope be putting electricity through the probes.
A No, I just tested the CRO probes with my bigger an better DMM, it showed 0v so the circuit it isn't getting voltage from there.
Just aside from this but related to the bulb it self
It is just a ordinary run of the mill Xmas tree light, taken from a Xmas light set, glass bulb has a green coating.
This is the results of the bulb test.
The filament resistance is 12.8 ohms, current draw at 12.0volts DC is 96.6ma (very bright, pretty green) the bulb can cope with a higher voltage but I didn't want to blow it.
Now with the bulb still connected to the test setup, I backed the power off to simulate what the bulb was looking like last night and I read off in the order of 31.1ma
So this is what I will need to be coming out of the pipes in the ground to run it in the future.
In the second part of your Q Jeanna,
Q Did I use a super cap like Bill did?
A No, but it appears to me the circuit board of the garden light (LED) is doing a very similar thing.
It has 5 resistors, 1 diode 2 transistors, and 1 ceramic capacitor I would say that the Ceramic cap is switching the transistors, on and off in a flip flop manner and between switching the ON -OFF states, it is able to charge up and then when the TR switches on it supplies power to the LED, it switches off, recharges and does the cycle over and over again.
Now as transistors weren't invented in Stubblefield's days, I would say to replicate his experiment, one would have to wind a second coil to do the same as the LED garden light thing.
(not the secondary coil wound on the iron and copper coil) this is another much smaller coil with many turns of very fine wire.
When the power builds up enough, it pulls an armature (flat steel strip) down, to break the circuit, then it flips back upwards, re connects the circuit etc etc.
The back EMF (electromotive force) of the magnetic field feeds energy back to the pipes in the ground. hmmmmm theory only.
Now this is a CU & Al pipe setup in the ground, I think it could be converted to the NS coils you are all making.
Is it possible to feed the back EMF from a collapsing coil into the "secondary" of your coils, giving it the energy it needs to amplifier the iron wires output?
Thanks Jeanna
Jim
@ Jim:
The back emf, bifilar coils, and transistor switching are all connected to what I am learning about the Bedini motor I am working on. I can get into more details elsewhere but, this is all related in my opinion.
Bill
@ jeanna
Sorry jeanna, I missed replying to your last part of your question.
Q It seems you are describing 2 different battery setups. but not sure.
A I am assuming you may be thinking I have a Stubblfield cell like the ones you and Bill and Joe have, no, I only have the ancient method :) the Cu & Al pipes in the ground.
But, what is happenning with my experiment, could give you all pointers for your own setups.
@all,
did you get the CRO jpgs and the mov files I sent to you all?
Jim
@ Joe
Q how close is the local SUB station? about 50klm away, but, the lasgest power $billion dollar station in Aust at Brigalow is 30klm away as the crow flies, BUT, it hasn't been commissioned yet. So these test results of mine I will compare against any I make when it starts up full time. Will be interresting.
Q Freq on scope, hmmmm I'm embarresed here, didn't write it down gulp. sorry joe, I'll see what I can doo soonest for you. but the photo dosent lie.:)
Jim,
Yes, I got the movie and the jpegs. I love the looks of that singing ringing. thank you.
Quote
It has 5 resistors, 1 diode 2 transistors, and 1 ceramic capacitor I would say that the Ceramic cap is switching the transistors, on and off in a flip flop manner and between switching the ON -OFF states, it is able to charge up and then when the TR switches on it supplies power to the LED, it switches off, recharges and does the cycle over and over again.
wow, am I glad I asked. thanks for the details.
So, I am assuming you wired a lead from the cu probe to the pos conx in the garden light and a lead from the al probe to the neg side. And that is all there was to it? until you added the other bulb.
QuoteNow as transistors weren't invented in Stubblefield's days,
no, but they used tubes, I think.
Jim, I think you are on to something.
QuoteBut, what is happenning with my experiment, could give you all pointers for your own setups.
I agree so,
QuoteWhen the power builds up enough, it pulls an armature (flat steel strip) down, to break the circuit, then it flips back upwards, re connects the circuit etc etc.
Is this something on your garden light? or is this your explanation of the make and break of the circuit in general?
See, We have his patent but we don't have how he used it. And that may be an important part of its strength.
What you just described sounds a lot like his phone battery device, which is a lot like a joule thief in its design and which does what you are describing. (It also sounds like what Joe is talking of maybe making, and a pic that Hans sent us.)
I hope you will build a Nathan Stubblefield (NS) battery soon. I am looking forward to what you think about it once you have your hands on one.
thank you,
jeanna
The truth is, however, that I was unable to either light a led with cu to zn at .7vdc nor collect it and throw it into the circuit using a supercap the way Bill did .
@ jeanna
Hello jeanna
Yea, after I saw Bills post on Utube, I wanted to do the same, so I found some Cu and Al pipe, drove them in the ground, hooked up my multimeter, saw the .xxx voltage, then that evening, hooked up a LED, and nothing happened.
I was dissapointed just like you.
Then I thought, hmmm whats going on here, I have seen it work, but my setup didnt work, so I browsed the net and arrived here, sat back awhile, let it soak in, and tried again. but it took until yesterday before I came up with a working setup.
About the digressing from the NS cells back to the Cu & Al pipes in the ground, I believe my information relates to both situations, both NS energy divices have access to the earth currents, it is only we are using different methods to come the same conclusion.
you are right in saying I dont have a SN cell, if I gave the impression by saying "my NS setup" I'm sorry. NS did have a similar setup and I slipped up in my explination by saying it was a NS setup, not a NS Cell setup:)
I should have clarified it better.
jim
@ Bill
yes bill, it does seem to all be related, havent been to the bernini motor web site thing but one day there will be a huge breakthrew and when that happens, wow.
2 all
I'm just about have the SW ready to keep on PC results you have with the NS cells, in a day by day form, I'm fiddling around with an installer program that can zip it up in a smaller file to send, it will also come with an uninstaller if needed.
I need to make a install icn and a user icn to click on, on the desktop to open it. Could any one send me an icn of a picture of a coil as a icon size file? Need at least 2
jim
Quote from: electricme on April 14, 2008, 10:36:21 PM
NS did have a similar setup and I slipped up in my explination by saying it was a NS setup, not a NS Cell setup:)
I should have clarified it better.
jim
Is that the cell set up as in the cell phone set up?
One day I got it in my head to draw the circuit as it would appear in a diagram when using the NS battery for power. I tried a few things, but kept coming back to something like the joule thief. (do you have that one?)
Then I came upon a website that had all 3 of his patents. So, I printed the cell phone one. While I was reading it I realized that the little circuit diagram he drew for the power source of that phone system was very close to what I thought the diagram would be. And, it in its variations is very like the joule thief circuit.(which has many variations too.)
That is why I am asking. As I said, we have his patent but not really how he uses it. (except possibly in the cell phone system ;) ).
thank you,
jeanna
I might have an icon drawing for you. I will see
how's this?
@ magnethos
hello to you
welcome from
jim
@jeanna.
He just put to rods in the ground like we all did .. different aeras of the earth may be em hotspots.. only explination to why our readings were much higher than yours. Possibly when visiting relatives try there plot and you might have better luck with the rods at least.
@Jim
take your time no rush here :) Its nice to see a confirmation on the ac current in the ground. The relay you described is what im working on along side a small rotary gap for the on off cycles i want to try to keep it mechincal at first then if ss is possible we can go for it.
;D
Joe
@ jeanna
Yes, thats right, jeanna, it's the cell phone setup type of thing.
I have seen several references made over time about the jewell thief, but I don't know what this is.
Could you send me the patient and circuit for it please so I can read up on it.
and if you have a icon, that would be great
TA muchly
Jim
Quote from: Localjoe on April 14, 2008, 11:25:47 PM
@jeanna.
He just put to rods in the ground like we all did .. different aeras of the earth may be em hotspots.. only explination to why our readings were much higher than yours. Possibly when visiting relatives try there plot and you might have better luck with the rods at least.
except mine are a lot smaller too.
I do plan to try it in my mountain this summer. The pH is 10 ought to show something there!
Jim seemed to be refering to a coil too. It sounded like he wanted to wind something around one of them. I was glad I asked about the garden light as there was more to it, so I thought I would push my luck. Maybe there is more explanation.
Jim,
check back a post to my last post. Is that a good icon for your SW?
jeanna
Quote from: electricme on April 14, 2008, 11:30:52 PM
Could you send me the patient and circuit for it please so I can read up on it.
Jim
go here
http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2007/11/make_a_joule_thief_weeken_1.html (http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2007/11/make_a_joule_thief_weeken_1.html)
there is a pdf so you can study it. the video is great. there are also a couple of links for more.
jeanna
@ joe
where did you get the fancy blue suit from ha ha (nice)
Yup, if you look closely at the MOV I made, you can see the AC moving quite fast, I think NS new this was in his inventions and to think he picked it up without the instruments we have today is quite amazing.
My theory is, if we can harness the ac to pulsing DC then feed it to a seperate coil it might just work.
After looking at the CRO at home aver a long period of time, I have come to the conclusion that the wave is composed of AC and DC, it is influenced by unknown interference, because it is never stable. It changes its shape, I mean it goes almost flatt, then later on, it goes into a sine wave, it can reach hi peaks and very low peaks, it has steps or high spikes and inverted spikes, it is crasy stuff.
Dosnt make any sence at all on some days.
When my LED is lit up, it changes brightness slowly or sharply, it might be very dimly lit, then goes extreamly bright.
Nothing is constant.
What I'm saying, the cycles of the energy are all over the place, if we use a accurate pulse rate to try and lock into its frequency, we wont be able to do it, we have to come up with a method to lock freq by using its own changing freq to do this.
But, did you notice that the top left of the wave form, there is something that appears and dissappears on and off, (like a lobe) don't know what it is.
Has anyone ever found an original NS circuit that has his coil connected to any device he made?
Jim
@ jeanna
Your Q on my setup at home, here is how I have it setup.
I have the copper pipe (3f long) in the ground, about 10 meters away I have the 3f aluminium pipe in the ground, next I connected a extension lead to the pipes, ran it via the back yard, inside the house to the kitchen, (cause I'm lasy n donna wanna get cold or wet) :) then I connected the LED with its circuit to the end of the extension leads. Pos to Pos, Neg to Neg. I connected the CRO probes, Pos to Pos Neg to Neg (earth). I waited a while until it settled down, then I bridged the Pos and Neg with the ends of the leads coming out of the bulb.
Thats the basics.
============================
If you can, get a garden solar light, take it apart, look out for insects/bugs, (some twist off, others have phillips head screws).
The best place to get solar lights is to ask a neighbor who has had a few and ask them if they have one that dosent work.
(I found 18 in the dump last week)
Take a look inside the housing, it will have a small PCB (Printed Circuit Board).
Remove the Ni-Cad cell, then disconnect and remove the solar cell.
Next remove the red wire from the PCB going to the battery holder, "at the battery holder", do the same with the black negative wire.
Then put the POS lead that was going to the battery to the positive wire on your NS cell. Put the NEG wire that was going to the battery to the Neg side of the NS cell.
If there is enough energy in your NS cell, it just might turn on.
Hope this helps
Jim
@ jeanna
Thanks for the icon, TA muchly indeed ;D
I only just found it.
Jim
@ all,
This is embarrassing, deeply embarrassing, its 9.00pm, I got more energy coming out of these rods now tonight.
Yesterday I reported about the single LED being lit up and 1 filament bulb, but the bulb was extremely dim.
Tonight I hooked it back up, almost nothing, LED hardly glowed, then after a while I went back in the kitchen and I'll be blowed, it was really bright, so bright it hurt the eyes, I thought it would burn out, double checked and triple checked for anything unusual.
No, same as last night, so I added another LED unit (lighting 2 LEDs in parallel (yippee) and kept a eye on it, man, it too got even brighter than the 1s LED. (I'm getting dizzy)
I took a photo of it to prove it, in room light.
I then decided to add a 1.2 v DC Ni Cad battery to it, (Bat is dead flatt) joined a 12v Xmas tree globe in series and attached it across the line, it didn't collapse the feed coming in from out side, and the bulb was twice as bright as last night. After a half hr, the LEDs began to loose brightness very slowly, so I over did it, (too much load).
I removed all except for 1 LED and it started to come up to full brightness again. I couldn't look at it it was so bright.
My heads spinning. I think I'm on the right track.
Both CROs are hooked up to it, the B&W511 is keeping an eye in the power input, the new one is hooked up to the earth and to the + leg of the LED, as the energy gets more and more, the cro reflects that happenning also.
Turned off all the house lights, had no trouble looking around the kitchen, by the single LED lit the roof it was pointing at.
By the way,discovered something, that might have a bearing on the usage of globes, accidently by the way.
The setup gives out a half volt, it only seems to work with a 12v filament, but only dimly so far.
I tried connecting a 2.5v torch globe (.1 ohm) and it registered a instant short, it seems the circuit will only work if there is a higher resistance,(12 ohms or more) I will have to rig up a 9 pole switch I have somewhere, solder some bulbs in series and start experimenting with what will be the best setting.
hoo roo
Jim
@all
Ive been trying to think if we have missed something very simple in the operation of our earth cell, i remember Bill using salt in his water as an electrolyte with very bad results for his cell so i think we basicaly ruled out galvanic reaction as the main source of the cells power, this got me into thinking if there were something else that could be done that stubblefield may have done or unknowingly done to make his cells put out more power than ours?.
Well i was reading about NS and was given the impression he lived in or near woodlands/forests, this then got me thinking of something we may have all overlooked.. the actual soil makeup itself!, what if the acidity of the soil plays a role in the output of the cell?.
I thought id sacrifice a small cell that i first made when starting this project, so i placed it in a tall glass of cold water then took the following readings:-
.534 vdc
00.15 ma
Then i added ordinary malt vinegar at a ratio of 1% then left for 15 minuites to soak, then i came back and took the folowing readings:-
.723 vdc
22.00 ma
i couldnt believe how much power the cell was now producing and this cell is 3 layers.. wound on a 4" x 1/4" iron rod, so its very small.
so maybe as NS may have lived in the woods (can someone confirm this?) and as i understand it woodland has very acidic soils caused from rotting organic vegetation, ive also read that pine forests have very acidic soil so maybe NS buried the cells and had to wait for the soils acidity to soak through the entire cell for them to reach full power?.
just thought id throw this in here for more discussion as maybe a galvanic reaction could play a bigger role than we first thought?.
Chad.
Chad
Awsome find with the acid , hadent thought of it yet. But obviouslly it worked. did you see your wires deteroiating at all or did they stay intact pretty well?
Joe
@ Chad
sounds good, I had read that somewhere but forgotten it.
vinegar as an eletrolite, your readings are much higher with it.
I know that caustic soda, (an alkani) is the electrolite for Nife wet cell batteries, I have a few out side.
@ all,
well I have some bad news, :-X :'(
last night after my last post I decided to check up on my LEDs etc before retiring for the night, it was as quiet as a mouse, no traffic so it was ultra quiet.
I had just a globe connected, (I had removed the LEDs to see if there was a sustanable current). The globe was very dimmly lit, it was burning for about a half hour, didn't vary. I went for a bath (a clue) and came back to recheck the globe, it was off.
I Tested the setup, no current, so I put the LEDs back on circuit, they came up slowly, then they jumped to full brightness very quickly.
I stayed watching them for some time trying to figure out what had done this. :-\
Then they dropped instantly to low dimness, and I hurd the hotwater system start to cool down, afta a while, the leds came on to full brightness, the hot water system I could just hear. ???
I turned off the hotwater sys, and the leds went dim. :'(
This is a BIG problem, I wanna hide unda de bed, ha ha ha, a big oooops. :-[
Anyway, I disconnected both CROs and re-tested, it looks like the (NEW) CRO earth lead is conducting a return somehow, by passing the Aluminium pipe in the ground. :o
My old CRO dosnt do this.
Sooo my next step is to check out my earth on the hot water system, measure with a DMM, and put a Test Light in series with the earth to the hot water sys.
Don't worry guys, I did an electrical mechanic course as my apprentiship, so I should be able to find the cause of this hickup.
Now someone did say, had I ruled out the scope leads putting any influence, I had, but when I did the test, the hot water sys must of been off. :(
In my favour I live 75 meters from a major highway, the traffic ranging from cars to B Tripples (Prime mover towing three semi trailers) makes an awful lot of noise, the ground shakes at times, the noise drowns out the hot water sys noise.
OK all Im open to suggestions. :)
Jim
Jim
Quote
Sooo my next step is to check out my earth on the hot water system, measure with a DMM, and put a Test Light in series with the earth to the hot water sys.
(no hiding under the bed in this group!)
Well Jim, you made an experiment that may show what has up to now been a conjecture. You may have shown something Hans mentioned and we all wondered about but didn't really show.
So, please keep investigating this, because we really need to know this.
And, also, bye the way, I now have a garden light all cut up and ready for use as a testing device. (plus a small solar panel and a photodiode, ;) ) so it's ok by me. :D
jeanna
PS Magnethos, I love your picture.
@ jeanna
Thanks jeanna, those kind words have boyed me up.
glad you got a garden light all cut up, watch for the polarity when connecting.
I found I could sometimes get it to work by opening the + wires on & off like a switch, every 1/2 to a full second.
If you could send me the 2 extra icons that would be great.
@ all
Found the fault with the hot water system, the internal earth strap had rusted off where it connected to the internal steel tank.
Made another connection and its all fixed, running OK.
Havent connected up any NS stuff yet, will take a cuppa n think a bit.
Jim
PS Thanks Stefan.
@ jeanna
I went to that joule thief web page, that was interresting, I printed out the information
recommended reading for newbies that one, goes in the top draw.
Thanks
Jim
jim
Quoteglad you got a garden light all cut up, watch for the polarity when connecting.
It works great. just not on the NS battery, even 2 in series, but it is cold and rainy so I am talking about kitchen batteries,
not the real ones. that will be tomorrow, maybe.
jeanna
@ anyone
A mystery within a mystery.
OK got myself into gear again, connected up the LEDs to the rods in the ground, and they are working again, still got a problem, related with the 1st one. :-\
I repaired the hot water system earth strap, thats fixed, then when I reconnected the CRO, the LEDS brightened up again. :)
Then I noticed it was only brightning when just the earth clip from the CRO was touching the NEG or Al lead. :-\
Disconnected the CRO and unplugged it, Made up a 3 prong power plug, with just 1 wire going to earth, (No Active or Nutral wires) plug the plug in the power point. connect this single earth wire (representing the CROs earth) to the LED earth and bingo, the LEDs lit up full brightness, so ...
Am I picking up earth currents from the "mens earth 240v ac wiring earth or telleruic earth currents?
Tomorrow I will test the Earth at the meter box, check its connections, if their tight, I'll throw a gallon of water on the earth post and see what happens.
I either have a problem or not, dont know.
If there is nothing wrong with the earth at the meter box, I cannot use the new cro,
I have the answer to one thing, all the measurements I made previously have been tainted by the earth through the new CRO, interresting, I wonder if it will happen to anyone else if they use any equipment that is energised by the usage of their power supply earthing system?
jim
@all
After my tests last night i decided to see if the acidic soil from pine forests had effect on our earth cells, so this afternoon i went to our local pine forest and took around 5-10kg of soil including some dead material from the surface, i removed my cell from the earth and dugg out the hole to about 10-12 inch diameter and around 10 inch deep then reset my cell in the hole sourounded by the pinewood soil, Il leave the cell here for around 7 days and take further readings to see if there are any improvements.
readings before i removed the cell were:-
.575 vdc
12.00 ma
@joe
i didnt see much deterioration of the wires probably because the acid to water ratio was around 1% acid and due to the short time scale the cell was in the solution, so maybe if it were there for a lengthy amount of time then maybe the deterioration would have been noticable?.
@all
well after i notice the power went up conciderably with the acid at 1% i decided to see how much power i could gain by increasing the ratio, i upped the ratio to around 20% vinegar (i ran out of vinegar :( )and the power went from 22ma up to 60ma, and this was all from a very small primary mentioned in my previous post.
I dont know what effect the acidic soil will have on the cell but maybe 1 amp of current could be produced from my cell if it were submerged in acidic electrolyte solution, il go the way of the acidic soil to start with and see what.. if any results come from this.
chad.
Chad
Thanks for the update, i cant tell you how happy i am that someone presued this line if testing. Once we get the big ones wound it might be advantageous to dump a bottle of vinegar in the ground around it once.
Secondly
@All
IS pine pitch acidic? Remember the sap reports im starting to wonder if it was a catylist............
As of now i know this, if i had enough wire i could easliy increase my readings on my primary coil to .8 v which is still the same and i approximate 100 ma or more with say 6 or 7 layers and a bolt thats a little longer. This is cresting on enough usable power to feed a relay and operate it. Although it is going to have to be homade. Now taking into account chads latest findings he achieved almost a 500% gain in output from the 20 percent vinegar mix. Thats substantial. This needs to be peresued and tested further. Chad thanks again for the great addition.
So again i is pine pitch or sap acidic? i cant find info on it , if anyone can answer this that would great
Thanks to all
Joe
Quote from: Localjoe on April 16, 2008, 01:48:52 PM
it might be advantageous to dump a bottle of vinegar in the ground around it once.
So again i is pine pitch or sap acidic? i cant find info on it , if anyone can answer this that would great
Thanks to all
Joe
Yes, pine is acidic. It's forest 'litter' is anyway.
Caution folks,
vinegar is a fabulous
herbicide. It kills on contact and leaves no residue.
The implications of that are that it could kill lots of plants in an immediate dumping of vinegar around a coil, and it won't last long enough to continue to add to the charge.
The way to test the soil (of the pine trees for) pH is to scoop up the dirt add distilled water then after 30 minutes minimum stick a pH stick into it to read the pH. Oaks are acidic too. the acid is called tannic acid.
jeanna
Quote from: jeanna on April 16, 2008, 02:04:16 PM
Quote from: Localjoe on April 16, 2008, 01:48:52 PM
it might be advantageous to dump a bottle of vinegar in the ground around it once.
So again i is pine pitch or sap acidic? i cant find info on it , if anyone can answer this that would great
Thanks to all
Joe
Yes, pine is acidic. It's forest 'litter' is anyway.
Caution folks,
vinegar is a fabulous herbicide. It kills on contact and leaves no residue.
The implications of that are that it could kill lots of plants in an immediate dumping of vinegar around a coil, and it won't last long enough to continue to add to the charge.
The way to test the soil (of the pine trees for) pH is to scoop up the dirt add distilled water then after 30 minutes minimum stick a pH stick into it to read the pH. Oaks are acidic too. the acid is called tannic acid.
jeanna
I didn't know that vinegar will kill plants .....I guess it makes sense ......
I agree that oaks make the soil acidic .........I remember reading that Stubblefield favored placing coils under old oak trees ..
I am not a gardener ...........but I remember that tomatoes like acid soil ......my father used to buy something at the garden center to make the soil more acid .
gary
Edit ....... after thinking about it a while ......I think my father used potash to raise the acid level in the soil .....
if you don't wanto to go buy some at a garden center ....... wood ashes from a fireplace should work
Quote
....... wood ashes from a fireplace should work
Yes, vinegar is a herbicide. I have used it. It leaves no residue. (brilliant. A friend shared this with me and I tried it and it is true.) It takes a lot but vinegar is cheap.
Wood ashes are Basic, not acidic. They may work. (I am planning to try a basic land in my mountain land this summer.) but not because they are acidic. They are the opposite. KOH is drawn from wood ashes to be used for soap making. throw some wood ashes into a paper bag add water to make a slurry, then catch the liquid that drips out. It is a solution of KOH and water. (very basic--alkaline battery. ;) ) - the foxfire books tell more details on how to make soap.
Stay tuned for more recipes from jeanna's kitchen lab. ;D ;D
jeanna
I got this idea from some recent posts. Last fall, we all noticed a difference in voltage between probes of the same metal but separated from each other in the earth.
The idea is that we all have different soils with different pH and chemical content. I am thinking that we could do a control test every time we check any other probes by marking the voltage between 2 probes of cu or maybe whatever bolt material we are using. This will give us a control for comparison around the earth (different ones of us) and a control for our own soil as it relates to the core piece 1 which is in the ground.
I have some probes still in the ground from before and today cu to cu gives me 0.016vdc.
I will look back to see what I got last fall.
what do you think about this as a way to give us a reference for comparison?
jeanna
soil is apparently made acidic by decomposing organic matter giving off hydrogen gas, so maybe we can make a concoction made from fast decaying plant material we could blend and line the hole were we are going to place our earth cell in, this would give us a steady acidic base to act as an electrolyte.
We just need to find wich plant materials would be suitable, it would be great if we could just dump all our old patatoe pealings and cabbage leafs in there....bit of organic recycling :)
i could do with buying some litmus papers asap.
Chad.
@ All:
I was going to urinate on my cell to see if it boosted the output but, decided against it. (smile)
@ Jeanna:
I think that is a great idea for a control or base line with the exact same length and diameter of two same metals. We should all be able to lay our hands on some 3/4" copper pipe and cut it to whatever length is decided. Place them all oriented the same (north-south) and same distance apart and same depth. This would tell us right away the variances, if any, of output due to local conditions be them soil content and ph, bleeding electrical grounds, rock formations and etc.
I love this idea!
@ Joe:
I know Jeanna's idea may seem geared toward our older electrode methods but, I think this will really give us a giant snapshot of the varying conditions that will carry through for any and all of our coil experiments. Count me in. This could actually give us a good control. (I know Jeanna was thinking about the coils too when coming up with this great idea)
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on April 16, 2008, 06:12:31 PM
Count me in.
This could actually give us a good control. (I know Jeanna was thinking about the coils too when coming up with this great idea)
Bill
I was, indeed.
I just moved my 3 NS coils to a new spot and pounded 2 cu pipes into the ground too. Then I pounded 2 more coils into the ground near them. One of them lost all voltage between 5,6 but it is the one with a secondary that reacts strongly with the fe of the primary, so I will give it a day or 2 to see what happens. They all went down some. I think I remember pounding does something to magnets? I will wait a day before I report on this so it doesn't get confusing.
Yes, my whole focus for some time now has been on the NS coils. But also,I have been trying to think of a way to have a base line for control and comparison between our different soils, weather, telluric currents etc... I think this is it. If everyone goes along. ;)
jeanna
All right folks,
I have accumulated enough data to make another whole screen.
First I will describe some things. I was finishing coils 10 and 11 when I started this chart thing.
I took measirements of the primary while I made them. The one made from a pipe had 19.5 or so mamps until I added the secondary.
This has happened. Every time I add a secondary the volts n amps drop. They might recover somewhat but never to the full primary only amount.
The other thing I want to point out is that the amps measurements particularly on the coils with secondarys at least drops to zero. Sometimes it goes fast enough that I see it cycle up and down. Now, it is still cold and I don't feel like bending over the ground waiting 10 minutes to see if the amps is going to cycle. But it just might. Sorry, but that is how it is. 8)
Yesterday, I moved all the coils to a spot under the tree. (I have other things to do with the back yard.) Every coil dropped way down. This evening they are all coming up again.
The one I call 3 got broken. maybe it has dirt inside the windings. I may try to fix it. It is one that gave me interesting phenomena so I don't really want to lose it...
Here goes. (I hope I didn't make too many mistakes this time. ;) )
@ jaenna,
Your chart looks good, and has given me some idears to be included in my setup.
@all,
I'm in the middle of making an instrument to give an indication of any energy that is coming from a coil or Cu pipe setup.
You are aware of the trouble I had with earth leakages, so during my "siesta" over the last few days, I did some thinking.
Make my own test gear.
I have a plastic rectangle about 15" long and 7" wide, I got a long spring, anchored it to one of the 7" ends in the middle with araldite, glued a small magnet to the far end of the spring. Glue is hardening, so I will take a few days off.
I will connect to the magnet end a nylon line and tension it to the other 7" end.
Are halfway making a pickup coil which will go close to the magnet.
I'm hoping any current no mater how small will move the magnet and so I could then read off via a pointer on a scale.
If it swings backwards and forwards, its AC, if it moves either way its DC.
The further it swings, the stronger the energy.
If the spring is too strong, I'll change it witha softer one.
jim
@ Jeanna:
Great chart! This makes me look lazy, ha ha.
Electricme:
Good luck with your new measuring device. This sounds like a very good idea to me, very creative.
Bill
@ All:
Well, I finally got outside and buried the larger of my two coils. Results as follows:
vdc: .83
mA: 39 (This number falls off quickly to about 32 mA.)
vac: 1.1
All in all, the numbers are a little better than when wet sitting on my kitchen table. We will see what happens over the next few days.
Bill
@ All:
I have a new personal record after burying my coil all the way:
AC Volts: 1.3 vac
DC Volts: .93vdc
Ma: 56mA (drops to 47 mA pretty fast)
OK so, well, I added a little distilled white vinegar (5% solution) to the hole before inserting my coil. The readings are staying consistent. I also added some water while inserting my coil so we will have to see what happens.
Bill
@bil
nice work bill, how long did you leave your cell in the ground before you took your readings?.
@all
Well i decided to take my larger cell and submerge it it a 10% solution of malt vinegar and tap water, well the best readings i got are below:-
.637 vdc
63ma
i left it there over night in the solution and took the reading again in the morning and there were no improvments?, i also connected the terminals 5&6 to a magnetic reed switch and used a motor with a disc mounted ontop with 4 magnets mounted at 90 degree intervals so a total of 4 magnets.
I hooked the motor to 9v battery and took readings at terminals 10&11,well the best readings were:-
.437 Vac
the voltage dropped to around:-
.230
It remained stable at this voltage.
ok so the cell didnt impress me as much as id expected but i did get a surprise about an hour ago!
I took the cell from the solution and took it back outside to the hole i removed it from, i decided to dig the hole deeper,now the top of the cell is sitting 6 inches lower that the ground level, the pine soil is still in the hole.
The cell was in the ground for around 4 hours only!, i went outside an hour ago to check the readings and got the highest readings i ever had from this cell?, the readings are below:-
.710 Vdc
82ma
Going to test again tomorrow after work.
Chad.
Quote from: Localjoe on October 19, 2007, 02:42:39 PM
So i took a wack at something i thought was going to be wild but i deff had to satisfy my curiosity, Go stick a small copper pipe or piece of sheet copper like 5 inches or so in the ground, then take a steel screw stick it in the ground about a foot away from the copper and tell me the voltage/ current you get. Copper being positive steel being negative. I got 1.5 v ac or around .9 v dc and i cant tell the current but its in the hundreds of micro amps, charges ac cap real quick.... I Found out two ideas that will help people. First stick your copper in the ground, make an imaginary circle in your head using the copper as the center and plop the steel skrew in around the perimeter of this circle walk the whole 360 degrees and try the skrew in the ground every so often. My conclusion is polar alignment deff makes a difference and produces more voltage and current give how the metals are placed... Doing it near tree roots also had a significant impact on current being higher but no real impact on the voltage. If the freq of this ac power was fast enough, i guess my question is could i step it up to something useful, mabey just enough to make a small solonid motor with flywheel or alternator of sorts to make additional power. Ideas folks ? I haven't tried putting coils on the metal directly to try Stubblefield stuff i wanted to start basic but the crazy part is these two peices of metal can be separated like at least 10 feet and they still form a circuit, or register voltage on my meter, pretty cool. I also found out that i could run a battery in series, plus of battery to - steel screw, copper pipe to load + and the - term on the battery to the loads - terminal, still lit the led which means its deff possible to use the ground as a conductor of sorts at least across a reasonable space of land.
Weird thing.. my analog shack meter shows the ac while my digital doesent but when i tap the probe on the copper or steel it registers a little....
This sounds like a great geology experiment. I'm going to try this, hope you don't mind. You can make your own compass by rubbing metal wire that's a good conductor against your leg, put it on a leaf on water and watch it point north/south (since we're talking about a wire) http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomag/declination.shtml
But watch the declination. Thing is the Earth through convection (magma in the Earth) makes an electromagnetic field within. The corialis force and this field causes magnetism of the Earths Iron rich plates. They all have a polar direction too. Look up magnetic declination for more info on this. The Earth apparently has a 2nd electromagnetic field outside that sustains the Earth's inside electromagnetic field and protects us from harmful solar particles . This Effect is known as the Dynamo effect. There's an equation and law of Lorentz about this effect. http://abyss.uoregon.edu/~js/glossary/dynamo_effect.htmlsee
The energy of the Earth is magnificant..check out the volcanic eruptions and earthquakes and plate tectonics due to this energy force. You might be just tapping into that somehow, but my knowledge on Physics is about as much as peanut butter spread on a pea plant when it comes to exact laws and equations, etc. I'm still looking into it, but I'm going to ask my geology professor the question about the tree to see if he knows something. I'll get back with you as soon as I can find out anything. Keep us posted.
Cheers
Beck
BA student, Geosciences,GIS
Quote from: one on March 31, 2008, 01:08:08 AM
I got my coil finished enough to test.
I still have some things to do . like cut the copper winding shorter.
I am going to try to match the inductance with the iron winding .
I am going to wait a few days ...........mostly because my thumbs hurt
:)
I learned alot about how NOT to wind a coil ....
one of the things I wanted to test is if bigger wire is better.
I used # 6 copper
I got some Iron wire for tying rebar
I made a cable with 12 strands . It was a little oversized .. I think I would use 10 strands next time .
I am thinking that larger wire has less resistance .......so the small currents generated will carry through easier .
I was shooting for a cable of iron wire about the size of the insolated copper
I wanted the iron larger because it is higher resistance , ......
I see that my voltage is low compared to others .
I think that may be in part that my outer windings are pretty loose .
If you can't read the meter the voltage I got was .54 V
Sorry about your thumbs.
I'm confused. Is the larger wire more resistance, or the smaller wire?
I found things went faster (setting up something to revolve around..did not measure output) when I used thinner wire, but I didn't think about the length of it. However I remember someone else mentioning cutting the wire shorter and he got better voltage. Do you mean by larger, thicker, or longer? Or could it be both?
Are you wanting more resistance? What does this achieve?
Interested,
Beck
Quote from: GeoscienceStudent on April 20, 2008, 06:50:59 PM
Quote from: one on March 31, 2008, 01:08:08 AM
I got my coil finished enough to test.
I still have some things to do . like cut the copper winding shorter.
I am going to try to match the inductance with the iron winding .
I am going to wait a few days ...........mostly because my thumbs hurt
:)
I learned alot about how NOT to wind a coil ....
one of the things I wanted to test is if bigger wire is better.
I used # 6 copper
I got some Iron wire for tying rebar
I made a cable with 12 strands . It was a little oversized .. I think I would use 10 strands next time .
I am thinking that larger wire has less resistance .......so the small currents generated will carry through easier .
I was shooting for a cable of iron wire about the size of the insolated copper
I wanted the iron larger because it is higher resistance , ......
I see that my voltage is low compared to others .
I think that may be in part that my outer windings are pretty loose .
If you can't read the meter the voltage I got was .54 V
Sorry about your thumbs.
I'm confused. Is the larger wire more resistance, or the smaller wire?
I found things went faster (setting up something to revolve around..did not measure output) when I used thinner wire, but I didn't think about the length of it. However I remember someone else mentioning cutting the wire shorter and he got better voltage. Do you mean by larger, thicker, or longer? Or could it be both?
Are you wanting more resistance? What does this achieve?
Interested,
Beck
Beck
this was one of my posts before I changed my name here.
The copper for my coils was 25 ft of #6 wire .....usually used for ground wire for electrical boxes and things like that.
As I undersand it ........any voltage will travel farther in a larger diameter wire than in a smaller one ..........
I am not sure if larger wires will pick up more energy in an earth battery ...... I am guessing they will
Also ..... with the galvanic reactions going on ......a large wire will last longer than small wire.
I see I ididn't explain things very well ..........I said .
Quote
I wanted the iron larger because it is higher resistance , ......
What I meant by this ......... Iron has alot more resistance than copper ....... to make up for this ......I wanted to make the iron wire larger diameter to help lower the effective resistance a little .
I also tried to trim the copper wire to tune the windings to the same inductance ........ it turns out both wires went down in inductance when I trimmed the copper.
gary
@ Chad:
Nice readings! I began checking the cell within an hour of fully burying it. One thing I did notice, it took me a while, when I left the test leads hooked up and walked away for a bit...the vdc kept increasing, little by little, bit by bit. I got my best readings after being hooked to the meter for about 30 minutes. Once I checked the mA, which was very high for me, then the volts were back down a bit, but came back as before, over time.
Bill
PS: I just checked again and, for a brief moment, I saw 69 mA on the meter! This dropped quickly to about 57. I hooked the positive lead to my carbon rod and negative to the core of the Stubblefield cell and read 1.3 vdc. Funny, hooked up this way, the mA's were below 10. I am able to add the volts but, this is hooked in parallel this way, not series so the mA's should go up not the volts!!!!! I have no idea what is going on out there.
Quote from: resonanceman on April 20, 2008, 07:48:40 PM
Quote from: GeoscienceStudent on April 20, 2008, 06:50:59 PM
Quote from: one on March 31, 2008, 01:08:08 AM
I got my coil finished enough to test.
I still have some things to do . like cut the copper winding shorter.
I am going to try to match the inductance with the iron winding .
I am going to wait a few days ...........mostly because my thumbs hurt
:)
I learned alot about how NOT to wind a coil ....
one of the things I wanted to test is if bigger wire is better.
I used # 6 copper
I got some Iron wire for tying rebar
I made a cable with 12 strands . It was a little oversized .. I think I would use 10 strands next time .
I am thinking that larger wire has less resistance .......so the small currents generated will carry through easier .
I was shooting for a cable of iron wire about the size of the insolated copper
I wanted the iron larger because it is higher resistance , ......
I see that my voltage is low compared to others .
I think that may be in part that my outer windings are pretty loose .
If you can't read the meter the voltage I got was .54 V
Sorry about your thumbs.
I'm confused. Is the larger wire more resistance, or the smaller wire?
I found things went faster (setting up something to revolve around..did not measure output) when I used thinner wire, but I didn't think about the length of it. However I remember someone else mentioning cutting the wire shorter and he got better voltage. Do you mean by larger, thicker, or longer? Or could it be both?
Are you wanting more resistance? What does this achieve?
Interested,
Beck
Beck
this was one of my posts before I changed my name here.
The copper for my coils was 25 ft of #6 wire .....usually used for ground wire for electrical boxes and things like that.
As I undersand it ........any voltage will travel farther in a larger diameter wire than in a smaller one ..........
I am not sure if larger wires will pick up more energy in an earth battery ...... I am guessing they will
Also ..... with the galvanic reactions going on ......a large wire will last longer than small wire.
I see I ididn't explain things very well ..........I said .
Quote
I wanted the iron larger because it is higher resistance , ......
What I meant by this ......... Iron has alot more resistance than copper ....... to make up for this ......I wanted to make the iron wire larger diameter to help lower the effective resistance a little .
I also tried to trim the copper wire to tune the windings to the same inductance ........ it turns out both wires went down in inductance when I trimmed the copper.
gary
Thank you Gary. That makes sense. My thinner wire (Cu) did not do so well in another experiement over the long run, so you're right about lasting longer. I'm learning alot here.
Now , have any of you done this around something that involves movement and got different readings? I keep wondering about that tree. It has sap and water, and osmosis and diffusion involved...??? You've got me thinking.
Second, do any of you know the type of soils you are working with and are marking these down? There are shapefiles available through many university GIS sites and state GIS sites, and even Country GIS sites. Many of them are free. You can get a free 60 day version of GIS from www.esri.com >go to products>go to ArcView> find free 60 day version and fill out the info. They have sent me 3 of them without question (they know I'm a student though) and they include discs to teach you the basics of using it. It would be great if you added that data to your experiment so you would know the soil type, then you could look up that type and know the metals in those soils. Some are aluminum rich esp in rain forest areas, some are high in iron, like Georgia. Would this help? If you need anymore info on GIS just send a note. I'd be glad to help.
Beck
@ Bill
I see you got 1.3v Ac reading on the cell you buried, thats pretty good.
How are the readings progressing, are they going up, are even or falling over the last few days?
I just hooked some fishing line to my spring and tensioned it.
Having done this, I think the spring is way to strong, if so, I'll replace it with a re-verb spring.we shall see.
Over the weekend I made a driver coil, using ultra fine copper wire I took off a 12v horn relay coil.
I wound 430 turns on a 1/32" steel wire as the iron pole (couldn't find a small enough nail)
I have glued all this together so tomorrow I'll test it out and see if it will work.
Jim
@ Jim:
Yes, but that was with my one carbon electrode in the mix. The plus from my carbon rod was tied to the copper lead on my coil, and the minus was the iron core. Otherwise, just the coil alone was .93vdc. Alone it gave the best mA readings also. Good luck with your experiments. I can't wait to see how they turn out.
Bill
Quote from: GeoscienceStudent on April 20, 2008, 08:28:07 PM
Now , have any of you done this around something that involves movement and got different readings? I keep wondering about that tree. It has sap and water, and osmosis and diffusion involved...???
Beck
Beck
I get some strange readings with my cap. ....... I can't explain them .
It might be a quirk of my meter ...........but I don't think so .
With my cap ....... If I connect only one lead I get a reading on AC V
The reading changes if I move in relation to the cap .
The readings are hard to explain ........ but consistant .
They are very small . ........ If I connect the leads to both sides of the cap I get .007 V AC but I also get .007 V AC if I don't have anything connected to the leads.
With a lead connected to one side of the cap I get around .01 V AC .........If I move the AC voltage jumps up as high as .035 .......then usually but not always settles back to .01 .
magnets don't seem to affect the readings ....... It does not seem to be reading static charge .
I really don't have a clue about what it is reading .
I am doing non galvanomic stuff right now ..... I won't be planting any coils in the near future ..........so knowing the soil type doesn't help me any right now ................but it seems to me that it might be very helpful in finding hot spots in the future ......... or it might be helpful in defining exactly what a hot spot is .
gary
@ Bill
I tested my "instrument" with a 1.2v Nicad, the coil attracted the magnet, then when I reversed the polarity, it was repelled.
I was not expecting a push/pull reaction, rather a rotating momention was what I was looking for.
I might take the spring out, and glue the magnet onto the nylon fishing line, but I will have to have the line extreamly tight to prevent it being attracted to the coil.
I'm open to suggestions anyone
Jim
Quote from: resonanceman on April 21, 2008, 03:13:05 AM
Quote from: GeoscienceStudent on April 20, 2008, 08:28:07 PM
Now , have any of you done this around something that involves movement and got different readings? I keep wondering about that tree. It has sap and water, and osmosis and diffusion involved...???
Beck
Beck
I get some strange readings with my cap. ....... I can't explain them .
It might be a quirk of my meter ...........but I don't think so .
With my cap ....... If I connect only one lead I get a reading on AC V
The reading changes if I move in relation to the cap .
The readings are hard to explain ........ but consistant .
They are very small . ........ If I connect the leads to both sides of the cap I get .007 V AC but I also get .007 V AC if I don't have anything connected to the leads.
With a lead connected to one side of the cap I get around .01 V AC .........If I move the AC voltage jumps up as high as .035 .......then usually but not always settles back to .01 .
magnets don't seem to affect the readings ....... It does not seem to be reading static charge .
I really don't have a clue about what it is reading .
I am doing non galvanomic stuff right now ..... I won't be planting any coils in the near future ..........so knowing the soil type doesn't help me any right now ................but it seems to me that it might be very helpful in finding hot spots in the future ......... or it might be helpful in defining exactly what a hot spot is .
gary
Since certain soils have variations of minerals , metals, and other substances, would variations of minerals or metals cause variations in readings?
And what about land use and leaching that may be involved? If you have high slope or the land has been developed or used for tilled farming, more leaching occurs, thus less minerals. I wonder if that would make a different effect?
We'd have to have something to use as a control, then try different slopes, land use areas, and soil types with the same coils, or other equipment used to varify whether this really makes a difference. Thing is, one person could not do the whole test because there are not enough soil variations in one yard to make a difference. But if several used the same method then each took readings on soil in his/her area and reported findings and included soil type...???
You've got my curiosity peaked. Something for future thought.
Have you taken readings around anything that would cause interference? taking magnetic direction has interference if you are near a fence or electrical wires? I wonder if this would cause interference with your tests too?
Tell you what, for future reference, I'll look into GIS to see if I can find soil types of all the US. If I can I'll check the minerals and see if I can come up with a map/database to post for everyone to use. Is there anyone here from other countries on here? It's harder for me to find other GIS sites but they are out there, and I'll just have to do some research. I'll get back with you on this if I can come up with something. Meanwhile, I'm going shopping for the equipment. Still sounds like a neat geology experiment. Maybe we'll learn something about our earth. Maybe this has already been discovered and there's an explanation for it? Best way to learn is do it for yourself though. My opinion.
Quote from: GeoscienceStudent on April 21, 2008, 10:19:08 AM
Since certain soils have variations of minerals , metals, and other substances, would variations of minerals or metals cause variations in readings?
And what about land use and leaching that may be involved? If you have high slope or the land has been developed or used for tilled farming, more leaching occurs, thus less minerals. I wonder if that would make a different effect?
We'd have to have something to use as a control, then try different slopes, land use areas, and soil types with the same coils, or other equipment used to varify whether this really makes a difference. Thing is, one person could not do the whole test because there are not enough soil variations in one yard to make a difference. But if several used the same method then each took readings on soil in his/her area and reported findings and included soil type...???
You've got my curiosity peaked. Something for future thought.
Have you taken readings around anything that would cause interference? taking magnetic direction has interference if you are near a fence or electrical wires? I wonder if this would cause interference with your tests too?
Tell you what, for future reference, I'll look into GIS to see if I can find soil types of all the US. If I can I'll check the minerals and see if I can come up with a map/database to post for everyone to use. Is there anyone here from other countries on here? It's harder for me to find other GIS sites but they are out there, and I'll just have to do some research. I'll get back with you on this if I can come up with something. Meanwhile, I'm going shopping for the equipment. Still sounds like a neat geology experiment. Maybe we'll learn something about our earth. Maybe this has already been discovered and there's an explanation for it? Best way to learn is do it for yourself though. My opinion.
Beck
it would be great to have access to a database of soil type and things like that .
We really don't know much about what soil works best yet ........but we will learn .
Jeanna and Bill talked a little about coming up with a standard way to measure . like what kind of metal rod and how deep
I think having a standard protocal is important if we are going to put together information that is useful for all of us .
The protocal should be as simple as possable ........something like one rod ......or one earth battery wound in a standard way .
I was going to say one measurement .........but I have read that the readings change with time of day and other factors ...........so maybe we need some averaging on each site .
To be honest I don't think we are far enough along to even figure out how to make a good standard probe.
My intuition tells me that what we need is a simple earth battery with a simple charging system added to it . This charging system could charge a super cap .
I am thniking of a coil with the core extending 6 in or a foot out of the bottom . you could ram the end of the core into the ground .......... so it looks like the coil is just sitting on the ground . .then come back in a specified time and check the voltage on the cap .
We will need quite a few reading from different kinds of rods and coils to even have an idea what kind of test works best . .....or how to start making a standard measuring probe .
`~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
About the strange AC readings on my cap ........ I did my best to rule out the possibility of interference or the possibility I was picking up AC from the house wiring .
gary
Bill
Each time I navagate to this page I see this comment
Quote
@ All:
I was going to urinate on my cell to see if it boosted the output but, decided against it. (smile)
It might be a valid experment . but I am sure we would never hear about it .
After all a gentleman doesn't piss and tell .
:)
gary
Yes, Jeanna had the idea of just using two standard copper pipes of "X" size and placed "X" distance apart on the north/south meridian. Everyone interested could replicate this and then we can compare measurements of volts and amps. Also, we would all put them in the ground "X" deep". This would give us a very good baseline. PS Since both pipes are the same material, it would rule out any galvanic action. Some of us tested this before and you still get vdc, vac and mA's from them.
Bill
Gary: Bear with me because I'm going to hunt down the shapefiles and then get my minerology book out to add in the major metals/minerals of the types of soils. (they usually say Aridisols Oxisols, (Al Fe) Alfisols, Ultisols....like that. I'll post as soon as I can.
Beck
Quote from: GeoscienceStudent on April 20, 2008, 08:28:07 PM
Now , have any of you done this around something that involves movement and got different readings? I keep wondering about that tree. It has sap and water, and osmosis and diffusion involved...??? You've got me thinking.
Beck,
Welcome geoscientist!!!
I just moved all my coils to a spot under a tree.
I did not notice anything immediately, and there is a reason for that.
A coil needs to build up something. It will grow for a while then hold and make a daily fluctuation based on some daily parameter(s).
I am watching that too. I don't point out all these things when I make a report cuz there is too much going on, but you can see it, because I do report when a coil is inside and just moved out or added a secondary, etc.
It is buried (not the coil just the info ;) )in those charts I have been posting.
jeanna
Oh we talked a little about soil types. The thing about it is that the galvanic primary is only the beginning of the real deal here. So, I would rather not focus too much on improving that aspect with more than water since NS himself said his coil doesn't need more than moist. It probably doesn't need more than .7v. That is MY guess about it.
Gary,
QuoteI am thniking of a coil with the core extending 6 in or a foot out of the bottom . you could ram the end of the core into the ground .......... so it looks like the coil is just sitting on the ground . .then come back in a specified time and check the voltage on the cap .
We will need quite a few reading from different kinds of rods and coils to even have an idea what kind of test works best . .....or how to start making a standard measuring probe .
Mine are all sort of like that. That is how I think they are buried. the stake is buried to capture the mag field only in the core piece 1. Right now, they are in fact partially buried because the core piece is too short on most of mine.
What I have noticed over and over is that the amount of moisture in the cloth will create more difference in the voltage than moving it or changing anything else. - by a factor of 10 - (there is a word for this which I need to remember. something like resolution?)
So, even this idea I had, to plant cu pipes and check them is below the range that the moisture alone will change it.
So, I agree we are not far enough along yet to even have a way to standardize ourdelves. Maybe soon we can come up with a coil for everyone to make that is standard??
I think the mag field and the compass might offer something, as Beck, I think, suggested.
jeanna
@ Jeanna:
You wrote: "So, even this idea I had, to plant cu pipes and check them is below the range that the moisture alone will change it."
I don't understand what you mean by this? Below what range? I thought, and still think, your two copper pipes idea is a very good one. When I attempted, way, way back when, the two copper pipe method, the soil was very dry and I still got about .7 volts dc. That is what first convinced me it was not galvanic, it couldn't be. Maybe, if you mean, you don't get a very good or high enough reading, then this is EXACTLY what your idea would tell us. Maybe Joe get 2 volts, I get .7 and you get millivolts. If all done the same, then we can compare.
Sure, later we can "standardize" a coil but a lot more variables with doing that. Although, I think we should eventually try it. This way, if Joe got the highest copper pipe readings and then his coil is higher too, we can maybe then assume it has something to do with his area be it the soil, rocks, etc. My two pipes did not improve with added moisture. (I tried it) That was as it should be if not galvanic.
If I totally misunderstood you, then I am sorry. I am just a big fan of your idea.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on April 21, 2008, 02:55:44 PM
My two pipes did not improve with added moisture. (I tried it) That was as it should be if not galvanic.
If I totally misunderstood you, then I am sorry. I am just a big fan of your idea.
Bill
Maybe you're right. It is true that it will give the individual range.
I was just thinking that since my coil can go from .065v to .65v by the mere addition of moisture (a difference of .585v), the standard of the 2 similar pipes might not be enough.
If my 2 cu pipes show .005v and yours show .045v, that is a big difference.
But will it be significant when the moisture can cause a difference of .585v no matter where it is located?
Maybe, but I am not sure.
Jeanna
I think the word I wanted was significance?
@ All:
I just checked my coil outside today and the numbers are still pretty good and holding as follows:
.94 vdc
1.3 vac
68 mA
@ Jeanna:
I see what you are saying. The moisture difference won't affect the pipes but, if it rained here last night, and you didn't have rain for two weeks, our numbers on the coils would be way different. An easy way around that might be (for test comparison purposes with the coils) for each experimenter to soak the ground around the coil prior to the test. My coils, when wet put out the same amount if very damp, or under water. Maybe this will eliminate (or reduce) what you are speaking of for testing purposes?
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on April 21, 2008, 03:34:05 PM
to soak the ground around the coil prior to the test. My coils, when wet put out the same amount if very damp, or under water. Maybe this will eliminate (or reduce) what you are speaking of for testing purposes?
Bill
MMM probably you are right.
wow, that is a great coil!
I will look up how many turns and what gauge wire etc. If it is within the last 2 pages, that is.
It just snowed again today. that is 4 times in the last 3 days.
jeanna
@ Jeanna:
Don't forget, this is the one I added a bit of salad dressing to before I buried it. (5% white vinegar)
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on April 21, 2008, 04:12:24 PM
@ Jeanna:
Don't forget, this is the one I added a bit of salad dressing to before I buried it. (5% white vinegar)
Bill
MMMM yummy coils great salad ! spring mix? (good joke, ian ;D )
Bill,
Do have a notebook of previous readings and specs for these coils?
How many turns etc? or, do you remember when?
I just looked back a few pages. I didn't see the specs. (it is much better with these long pages even with the ads. less waiting for the site.)
I am just thinking about a standard size for us.
jeanna
Are you making an earth battery? Or something similar. I made an earth battery after I saw a video
on youtube, he got 1.46 v I think.My recreation of the battery was 30 ft long, and consisted of 5 3/4 in pipes 4' long, and 1.5' in the ground.
on the other end 5 1' (un-cleaned) rebar. Hooked up for more voltage got 0.284 v.
Then I thought that this effect was similar to zink and copper salt water battery.
so I hooked it up this way, and got more voltage. I orderd a 1/2 lb zinc bar got it this morning.
I am going to electro plate the rebar in zinc.
I've been working on the GIS project. Bad news good news, and let's see how we can solve it.
The government sites are the best and SSurgo data is better organized than data mart because the shapefiles include explanation of the codes they use on the soils. It also includes the slope data and consistencies of the soils.
The bad news is that you have to download ONE COUNTY at a time. The files are huge and slow down my computer. Then they are hard to read if I just post a picture because you need to see your area close up.
However, another option is... Go to esri.com then hit products tab click on ArcView and you'll see an option on the page to order 60 evaluation disk. (for education use only, not business)
(you can order another disk when the first runs out)
http://gis.esri.com/emails/av92cd/index.cfm
If you tell me your county and state, I can download it and organize the file, set up the .mxd map, add relational data like cities, roads and grids so it's easier for you to find your site,add a note what steps you need to take to find your site, how you can look at both picture and pull up the identify tool for the data of that particular place, Zip it up then send it to you.
We'll have to use my university e-mail because mine doesn't use high speed (the files will be around 3 MB)
If your'e still interested let me know.
Just a thought, knowing GIS is helpful in future jobs because so many companies, engineers, military, and government are turning to the use of GIS and so few people know how to use it.
Beck
@ all
Patent # 495,582 inventor claims 3,015 watts from ground generator. Fig. 5 indicate internal circuit direction. Perhaps helpful. Cindy
@ Cindy:
Welcome! Wow, that is something we will look into. Do you have a link to this? Or, I can find it. I hope you join us in our research here. Something new everyday it seems.
Bill
***EDIT*** I have seen this before. (I just looked it up) It talks of adding nitric acid and salt to the soil every few days to keep it going.
@ Pirate
thankyou pirate
Take a close look at Fig. 5. It may explain what is happening in a tpu configuration.
cindy
Thank you Cindy,
Emme says some remarkable things toward the end like it takes more time between application of the solution.
Also, he describes thee cleaning process as just moving the rod around a bit etc. now that is a lot less than the expected sanding etc.
He also says the ground around the device becomes charged etc. "which probably assists in some way to prevent the polarization of the negative electrodes as the battery acts with great constancy." MMM
I looked at the list of chemicals and although they are cartainly too 'rich' for plant growth,none of them is dangerous in the sense of leaving poisonous residues. so, 3KW wow. I am low use enough that this is in my range!
very interesting.
thank you
jeanna
thanks cindy wow http://www.google.com/patents?id=_212AAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&dq=495,582#PPP1,M1 this is amazing.
@pirate
i wonder if mixing lime into the soil would increase the acidity for more voltage.
i know that you can use it to increace the acidity for certan plants to thrive.
@ Server:
I don't know, it is possible. Right now, I am having pretty good luck with just a bit of distilled white vinegar. (5%) It brings the readings up a good bit and it totally safe. The effects seem to go away after a few days but I really didn't use all that much, and then I added water as well. Give it a try and let us know.
Bill
Quote from: serveradministrator on April 22, 2008, 11:06:04 PM
i wonder if mixing lime into the soil would increase the acidity for more voltage.
i know that you can use it to increace the acidity for certan plants to thrive.
Well, actually it is very basic not acidic.
You add ground limestone to increase the alkalinity of soil. It is called a sweetener.
In that patent you will notice he said to add hydrochloric acid (to make acid, ;) ) or carbonate of soda or potash. Those terms are old fashioned terms for sodium carbonate which is washing soda and potassium carbonate. I don't know the pH of the potassium version but I think it is stronger than the sodium carbonate which is very alkaline. A teaspoon will turn a half cup of water to a pH of 13. very basic.
I have a feeling the limestone may not be basic enough on its own, but it would perhaps be not hurtful to anything to try even if it doesn't work as well.
BTW the word lime is used for some very different things, one of which is old fashioned cement. It isn't what is used for building these days but it used to be. It gets hot enough to boil the water you add it to. So don't confuse this. You want ground limestone or agricultural lime.
Play away!
please let us know.
jeanna
@pirate
thanks i will try it out. oh and also is this simlar to what you are working on http://youtube.com/watch?v=r-lt63Si8IU. do you have a patent#. i love to read tesla's patents and build his devices, i am in the process of trying to build a small model of wardencliffe tower.
the small cell i used for testing a few days back has managed to produce a starting power reading of:-
.656vdc
162ma (yes realy that high!)
i am going to make a larger version of this cell later, if i scale the size up making a 9 inch long cell and have around 20 times more wire than the small cell then i hope the power will follow suit, this could be impressive.
ive tried the same idea of power boosting on my large NS cell and the results were only half of what the small cell was putting out.
it isnt far from the original design in the patent so i think its still relevant
il keep you posted
chad.
@ Chad:
Wow! That is an impressive mA number alright....good job! I too believe that whatever we are getting with these "small" coils will be better with the "larger" ones. Possibly, just the amps will go up and the volts remain about the same, who knows? Amps are better anyway so, I can't wait to hear of your results.
Bill
@Jeanna, Pirate, Serveradn & all
Thankyou for acceptance in your forum. Will try to update myself to the latest.
Emme used several series [b]connected[/b] metal couples in a straight line to achieve 3,015.60 watts. In Fig. 5 Emme shows 3 couples in a straight line:
1(+)(-)------2(+)(-)------3(+)(-)
Electrons flow inside the three couples from (+) to (-); electrons also flow from (+) to (-) outside the couples in the reverse direction. Further out couples 1& 3 exchange electrons, (+) seeking (-).
Couples placed too close together will have current flow forward and reverse nearly the same resembling ac current, further apart is dc but pulsating.
Couples placed in a circle will have electron flow along the edge of the circle as well as cross in the middle as in a tpu.
Salts and acids help induce the geomagnetic current but as Emme indicates they are less and less needed as time goes. As I understand a dc current and/or magnetic field will also induce.
Will try couples in a circle or semicircle and try to induce a current to substantiate.
cindy
Cindy:
I am going to have to go back and re-read that patent yet another time. Please let all of us know whatever you find out with your experiments. We share the ones that work, as well as the ones that don't, thereby, hopefully, saving someone else from going down a dead end path. There are a lot of very intelligent folks here (except me, of course) that may be able to add to your efforts.
Bill
Quote from: cindy on April 23, 2008, 02:38:47 PM
Couples placed too close together will have current flow forward and reverse nearly the same resembling ac current, further apart is dc but pulsating.
hmm where was this explanation in the beginning?
Thank you Cindy for bashing it into my skull. ;D ;D I think Hans tried, I sort of remember seeing this but...
QuoteCouples placed in a circle will have electron flow along the edge of the circle as well as cross in the middle as in a tpu.
this is very cool.
QuoteWill try couples in a circle
cindy, Are you making the holes as wide n deep? 20 in x 30 in each?
Thank you again,
jeanna
Quote from: Chad on April 23, 2008, 12:47:04 PM
the small cell i used for testing a few days back has managed to produce a starting power reading of:-
.656vdc
162ma (yes realy that high!)
Hi Chad,
So, let me get this right,
You made a bifilar pancake with one copper wire covered in cloth, one iron wire bare. You soldered the B to the A (as the Tesla patent 512340 calls the wires) then you added malt vinegar, hold the chips ;D, and measured the V n A. and what you got is posted above?
Now you are putting that pancake into or onto the ground? Any other insulation to or from the ground?
Jeanna
@ Jeanna:
Maybe we don't need schematics for this stuff, maybe we just need menus.
Bill
@all
Sorry guys been busy winding again.
i was testing different electrolytes to see what effect they had on the cells, i tried malt vinegar and tap water (hold the chips ;) ) and i tried 5% sulphuric acid and tap water on both cells, the large cell aprox readings were as follows:-
.656 vdc
86mA
Then i tried the small cell in the same solution and the aprox readings were as follows:-
.656vdc
160+ mA
i know the electrolyte vastley improves the power output but it doesnt explain why the small cell has more power?.
I have looked closely at the first cell (smaller cell) and remebered i wound this one different to the large cell!, i remember that the copper wire was only 28g and the iron wire had a greater diameter of 2mm, i decided to loosley twist together 2 equal lengths of cu wire to increase the overall mass and diameter, i then wound these in bifilar fasion down the bolt along side the iron wire.
I dont know if this is the sole reason for the power gain over the large cell or not but i will wind yet another cell using this method to see if i can replecate the original small cell.
sorry if my methods go little ofcourse but once i have an idea i cannot let it go without testing it, i suppose this is how many big descoverys are made :-\ :D
Chad
Quote from: Pirate88179 on April 23, 2008, 04:57:59 PM
@ Jeanna:
Maybe we don't need schematics for this stuff, maybe we just need menus.
Bill
@bill
lol this might not be to far from the truth :D
I was again thinking as i do and maybe we gain power from acidic soils like i first stated.. but also the hydrogen gas that is given off from the rotting vegetation, what if the hydrogen recombines with oxygen to form water wich creates a small electrical charge in our cell, if this process is happening all through the forrest floor then it would be like one giant cell with lotts of amperage....wouldnt it?.
maybe we could bury our own waste to create electricity?.
weres my spade :D
Chad.
Quote from: Chad on April 23, 2008, 07:16:41 PM
sorry if my methods go little ofcourse but once i have an idea i cannot let it go without testing it, i suppose this is how many big descoverys are made :-\ :D
Chad
Yaknow chad,
we are all experimenters and this is exactly how experimenters operate. schoolteachers don't like it much but it is just how we are. And, I agree this is how I, at least, invent things.
Also, it is why I am sooo insistent on getting good descriptions of what someone does right away. You might go off on a different tangent and forget this next week. I do that all the time.
So, Thanks for your good description of what you did to your NS coil.
Wow it is amazing
please keep us apprised!
Thank you,
jeanna
@ hello all
Joe kindly sent me the stubblefield patient, (thanks Joe), I spent all day yesterday reading it, trying to figure it out.
I became quite overwhelmed with the close spacing of words, and it was very difficult to follow numerals on Figs, so in the end I decided to start from scratch.
I retyped the patient, (shock horror) word for word myself, spacing it into paragraphs, spreading it about, now it is much easier to read and understand.
I then made a 2nd copy of the one I typed out, changing all references to "battery" to CELL (in green), now it became even clearer and much easier to read. I also added some more modern terminology to it with my own interpetration (in blue) on the Stubblefield cell, however the actual patient wording (in black) is still there.
Lastly I made a check sheet, putting the coil numerals 1-16 with an item next to each number.
During this exercise, I think I came across several items, some of you will know, some new to the forum might not understand.
1/ looking at the top of Fig1, there are 2 stubby wires (10), they are shown almost clipped flush with the top of the coil former.
I have seen this done in older valve radios, in the tuning section of tuning coils (early Phillips 6 band radios).
Got to thinking, "why", then I read further down, Stubblefield is indicating (not actually stating) they are not connected to anything, to keep the coils as electrodes. I think if anyone connects them, the coil will not resonate. If you put 2 electrodes in a beaker containing an electrolite, then bridge them out, they will not function. It stops the process.
It seems the coil windings (Cu & Ir) have to resonate, to work.
On section 15 to 20 on the patient is where it is stated
2/ The materials which were available at the time are a clue.
Copper wires, in Stubblefield's days, he didn't have access to "varnished" copper wire, he used cotton insulated, copper wires.
If the iron wire was not insulated, so the cotton wire was insulated.
As the cell was intended to be immersed in water or damp soil, then the dampness would have seeped through the cotton insulation, allowing a resonance to take place.
In section 35 to 40 on the 2nd page of the patient.
3/ The patient also indicates that the IRON wire could be insulated with cotton, this also implies to me, that the copper wire could be bare instead. Because, of this, there is an implication, that the copper wire was not varnished, but, bare it's entire length, wound on the cell former.
In section 95-100 on the 1st page of the patient.
This also indicates to me, if anyone winds a (modern varnished copper wire) alongside the bare iron wire, it will not react properly with the iron wire, because the wrong insulation is used. (a victim of time and modern practices)
4/ The power output is proportional to the size of the Stubblefield cell, in other words, the longer, wider the cell is (adding many layers), the more energy is available.
indicated at 5 - 10 on the 2nd page of the patient
5/ Ordinary iron will be magnetic and work, but if a Soft iron core piece is used, it will work better.
Modern transformers have laminated iron cores, specially treated iron is used to soak up as much magnetism as possible to reach saturation, more carbon is added in the making of the iron. (example, Bill's carbon and zinc electrodes in soil perform better)
I think if we used the soft iron (E-I) pieces, then we would see better results.
I suggest electric stick welder laminations, (you could use tin snips to trim them).
indicated at end of 100 on the 2nd page of the patient
6/ The windings must be wound very tightly next to each other.
We see this in the drawings Fig. 1, 2, 3, 4. the patient says "closely and compactly wound together".
(I know from personal experience only a winding jig will give this)
I have seen some coils wound with a gap between turns, must be tightly wound.
Has anyone ever seen a photograph of Stubblefields workshop, if so please post it here, it will give a clue to his way of doing things.
indicated 100-105 on the 2nd page of the patient
Has anyone been able to come up with better quality photos of the 4 cell drawings as shown on the patient? I want to take a really close up looksee at it, better still, has anyone got a quality photograph of a stubblefield cell they can let me have?
Has anyone un-wound an "original" stubblfield cell, and can email me the turns, size wire and data?
So there is my input of the day, if anyone wants to take a look at the "modified" patient, I will email it to you.
Joe, what do you think of the above, and, could you make/start a new thread which asks anyone who has unwound any stubblfield cell, coils, photos even notes to send the info to that thread?
Jim
forget it
;)
@ jeanna
I stand duefully corrected using the word "cotton" as the insulation medium. :) but then I havent seen "silk" or "linen" either mentioned in the patient.
I can only surmise what it is from previous posts, and examining photos of Stubblefields equipment, hense my request for anyone to put them on the thread.
When silk or cotton for that matter, is wound on a bear wire, it is done in bi-fillier or tri-fillier fashion, (even higher) several bobbins of silk/cotton is spun around the bare wire as the wire is drawn through a central hole, the speed of the rotating bobbins has to be matched to the speed of the wire being drawn, to keep the width of the insulater 1 layer thick.
The bobbins are similar to overlocker cotton reels in size.
Not impossible but difficult for amateurs to do.
Jeanna, my thinking process has been tuned to cotton as the insulating medium being mostly used by cell constructers, but if someone can front up with some silk covered wire, and where to get it, then well and good, until then, we are stuck with using cotton as the insulation, and I certainly aint gonna be feeding silkworms with mullbery tree leaves to get silk.
I might ring my old tech friend I know out this way, and see what he has to say.
@ all
Aside from cells a moment, I was just speaking to Microsoft in Australia, and have it from the horses mouth, that XP SP3 is to be released on 29th April, via Windows Update, 580megs.
For those using slow old Dialup, these people (like me) are alowed to download from another PC connected to Broadband, then save and burn to a CD, to be installled back at the old PC that has the dial up connection.
Jim
@ Jim:
I guess I always assumed it was cotton insulation in the patent as well. That is what was used on the wires in those days. I actually owned a house that had some original wiring in it and it had cotton insulation. I think it is the perfect insulation for our purposes as it lets the moisture through, and yet maintains electrical isolation. I think Jeanna tried silk and it did not work as well. I am not sure about this, she can tell us. I know some tried plastic screen and that did not work so good. It is easy for me to wind with the cotton string (cord) and use cotton material wraps between layers. Joe posted earlier a place to buy the cotton tubing that is made to slide over the wires for stereo applications. The link is posted way back somewhere. You could do an overunity.com search and it will come up. I used to have rolls of that but, over the years, it is gone somewhere...lost in one of my moves I guess.
Great news about sp3. Maybe microsoft is finally realizing that xp is still better than Vista. People are actually paying a premium to buy new computers loaded with xp as opposed to Vista. That should tell them something. I just hope the "update" does not mess up xp. SP 2 is working very well for me right now.
Bill
Greetings, I just discovered your great thread & find it all very interesting. I notice that you are getting a different meter reading on AC than on DC.
I am wondering if that is due to your Coil TRYING to tap into the AC Aether Vortex (about 100 KHz AC), rather than plain Galvanic DC action. Here is a way to determine if it is AC:
1. Make your Coil with insulated wire, NOT bare wire. Magnet Wire is fine.
2. Wind the Coil on a non metal core, such as cardboard or plastic.
3. The larger the diameter (at Least 3" or 7 mm), the HIGHER the Voltage.
A round cereal box (like Quaker Oats) is great.
4. Try placing a Plain, Non Polarized capacitor in SERIES between your meter & Coil.
A Cap will pass AC, but block DC. A Plain, Non Polarized Cap does NOT have a + or - markings.
5. Turn your Meter to AC Volts.
6. Try placing the Coil in different places, such as a hole in the ground, in a plastic bucket of water, etc.
7. Give it AT LEAST 30 MINUTES in each place to maximize the voltage in each place.
Floyd Sweet just had a rotating Aether Vortex spinning between the 2 flat magnets. Edwin Gray had it spinning inside his special tube. Hubbard had it spinning inside his circumference of pulsing electromagnets. The TESTATICA Device has it spinning inside the two large cans. SM had it spinning inside sequentially pulsing control coils arranged in a Toroid. These are just different ways of accomplishing the same thing.
It is entirely possible that your Earth Battery Coils are TRYING to tap into the Aether Vortex Spin?
.
FatBird:
Welcome aboard! You raise some good questions. My initial response is this: Since we don't really know what is happening, then we can't really say what it isn't. We had a couple of folks use a scope but I think the results were inconclusive on the ac being actual ac. (If I remember correctly)
I, personally, don't think that our coils would function with insulated wire. But, I have not tried it. I am low on wire, and a lot of other supplies at the moment. They sure would be easier to wind if they did. Why not give it a try and let us know? I suggest an attempt on a smaller scale first, just to see. I like the idea of a Quaker Oats sized coil...that's for me, ha ha. Actually, to rule out galvanic on the coils, only one wire need be insulated, like the copper, easier to get. I think this was discussed way back somewhere and Hans had some good thoughts on this.
The more folks experimenting, the better off we will be. Again, welcome to our group.
Bill
Quote from: FatBird on April 24, 2008, 11:41:01 AM
Hi fatbird,
It happens that some time ago I made a non0galvanic series of coils, and I have 1 that could work so
Quote1. Make your Coil with insulated wire, NOT bare wire.
tele wire ~24g plastic insulated bifilar with 24g steel wire
Quote2. Wind the Coil on a non metal core, such as cardboard or plastic.
wound around a drinking straw. now this is only 1/4 inch diameter not 4 inches like the oatbox.
Quote5. Turn your Meter to AC Volts.
my meter only reads to .1 volt ac. but it is on now.
Quotebucket of water
It is small so it is in a glass of water (filtered) on the kitchen table.
Quote7. Give it AT LEAST 30 MINUTES in each place to maximize the voltage in each place.
t is entirely possible that your Earth Battery Coils are TRYING to tap into the Aether Vortex Spin?
ok we'll see
here is a ? 4 u: Is there a direction I need to put the cap to get the ac and not the dc? and I assume you are talking about a regular polarized cap that dumps fast?
jeanna
A Non Polarized Cap can be inserted either way, as there are NO + or - Markings on it. This is what I am recommending here.
Caps with a + & - are called Polarized Caps & they DO have + & - markings on them.
As for value, I recommend a .01uf or larger value.
.
Thanks for that fatbird,
I needed that cleared up in general, so thanks.
My meter is reading a steady 00.0vac Of course it there is anything below 50mv nothing will show up.
I want to ask you why the ether vortex should notice this thing. and why it needs to be in water? if there is not even any galvanic reaction going on, why would there be any movement of anything at all?
I could concentrate on it, but I think I will let it be just see what happens 8) .
jeanna
@Fatbird
Welcome and thanks for your opening thoughts. Were all pretty much convinced its not just a galvinc rx becasue of the difference in readings from a standing cup of water vs teh cell in earth. The earth always wins with the same cell. This device is a transformer what were workign on currently. It takes the inital voltage and ampreage from galvinc rx and when those wires are switched on and off they create and impulse of alternating currents in the secondary coil wound around the whole thing.. Simple concept, now were just filling our measuring cups with the right lengths of wire ect for a ballsy output, as well a switching device prefreably passive has yet to be devoloped so doors are open for that one.
Joe
nathan stubblefield pat = 600 457
Quote from: FatBird on April 24, 2008, 11:41:01 AM
Greetings, I just discovered your great thread & find it all very interesting. I notice that you are getting a different meter reading on AC than on DC.
I am wondering if that is due to your Coil TRYING to tap into the AC Aether Vortex (about 100 KHz AC), rather than plain Galvanic DC action. Here is a way to determine if it is AC:
1. Make your Coil with insulated wire, NOT bare wire. Magnet Wire is fine.
2. Wind the Coil on a non metal core, such as cardboard or plastic.
3. The larger the diameter (at Least 3" or 7 mm), the HIGHER the Voltage.
A round cereal box (like Quaker Oats) is great.
4. Try placing a Plain, Non Polarized capacitor in SERIES between your meter & Coil.
A Cap will pass AC, but block DC. A Plain, Non Polarized Cap does NOT have a + or - markings.
5. Turn your Meter to AC Volts.
6. Try placing the Coil in different places, such as a hole in the ground, in a plastic bucket of water, etc.
7. Give it AT LEAST 30 MINUTES in each place to maximize the voltage in each place.
Floyd Sweet just had a rotating Aether Vortex spinning between the 2 flat magnets. Edwin Gray had it spinning inside his special tube. Hubbard had it spinning inside his circumference of pulsing electromagnets. The TESTATICA Device has it spinning inside the two large cans. SM had it spinning inside sequentially pulsing control coils arranged in a Toroid. These are just different ways of accomplishing the same thing.
It is entirely possible that your Earth Battery Coils are TRYING to tap into the Aether Vortex Spin?
.
Welcome Fatbird
I am trying to focus on the non galvanic reaction in the Stubblefield earth battery .
I have been playing with the Tesla electromagnet configuration ........ very little output dry ..... No AC when wet
Joe started this thread ..... and has stated in the past that this kind of stuff is not what this thread is about so we try to keep it on the Stubblfield speculations thread .
I have to go now ............hope to talk to you more about this non galvanic stuff
gary
I have read almost every possible article on Aether Cold Electricity. The unaminous opinion from experts is that you can't measure Aether Electricity directly, without a RESISTOR as a LOAD. Nor can you see it on a scope without a Load Resistor.
Therefore, I recommend a Load Resistor with a starting value between 100 & 1,000 Ohms.
Without a Load Resistor you will not be able to measure any AC Voltage. It will APPEAR that there is NO AC present.
.
@ Fatbird
Welcome to the group :D
Interresting stuff you suggest there, I can see what you have discribed is a type of test, this is what we need here in this group.
The more test instruments and variety, the better.
Yesterday I got in touch with a person who is very knowledgable on this type of topic, he is working with earthquake recording equipment, I was thinking some of the work we are doing here may be involved with earthquake activity.
"DD" has suggestered a test along the very lines you suggest, using a resistor coupled with an "analog" moving field meter, just as fatbird has suggested.
Part of his email to me states, and I quote "A DMM has such a high input resistance that it can show every insignificant voltage change. Try putting a 10k resistor in parallel with the DMM or, use an old fashioned analogue meter. This will then read the REAL usable voltage between your electrodes. It will also discharge any static charge between the plates", end of quote.
Put the resistor at the base of the metal leads where they plug into the DMM.
I will have to find a 10k resistor, I think a 1/4 watt one should do the job nicely.
My reason of contacting "DD" was to ask him about the avaliability of any earthquake equipment, he might have laying about not being used, and let me borrow or give me one. (even an ancient item).
Later I will ask what modifications are needed in the preamplifier, etc etc.
@ all
In my post earlier yesterday I said that cotton is the medium NS used on his coils, I also mentioned further in it, I would like anyone who has an "actual" Stubblefield cell to take it apart, then post here the results, no doubt there will be some surprises in it's actual construction, one of these will be what he actually used as an insulator for his windings.
In his patient he mentions "cloth", cloth to a bloke can be cotton, nylon, silk etc etc. Cloth is a discription of a flexable membrane, woven material. Hayyyyy, Stubblfield may have even used indian hemp, hemp in his days was not illegal to have or use, it was plentiful, they made the best clothing "cloth" out of it, hemp is the softest against the skin, so I am told, even ropes for ships, string have been made from hemp.
Hemp "was" used in 3 core leads and the thread seal for metal pipes, it was used to make hessian bags.
So what I'm saying here, because the patient, does not state what was the "actual" insulator, we as human beings need to call the insulator "something", so I called it cotton, as far as I am concerned, so what? (someone pushed my button). ;D
Until, someone can get an actual stubblefield cell and examine it, we wont know what he used.
Thats why I suggested Joe setup another thread where that info can be placed (as a library), and only have that info on it, or it can be posted on this thread, I really don't mind at all..
This morning in Australia, it is 25th April, it is ANZAC day, here we remember the dead who died for our freedom and are greatful to those who gave their lives for our countries.
hoo roo
Jim
Hi Everyone,
I can't believe I made it to the end of this thread,... Some 2 weeks of interesting non-drama free reading at times, lol. You all saved me at least a few movie rentals :)
I've found it quite interesting all of these discussions and I hope I can add some value here as well.
1) I found it interesting that Bill and at least one other person were blowing fuses in their digital meters. There has got to be some reason for that. Some mystery and unmeasured form of power perhaps....
2) Along the same lines your previous notice about the snow melting around some of the earth batteries and someone's finding that shorting the iron wire to the iron core was causing it to heat up. Did anyone get into this, I know there was mention of monitoring the temperature, etc. Me thinks that might be worth while to follow up with as it's perhaps a hint to the power your tapping into.
3) Bill , Did you ever make it to the NS Museum? I checked online but didn't find any references to it. On my next road trip, perhaps I can deviate and go take a look if I know where it is....Jim's comment about trying to find a NS earth battery to look at sounds like it would be worthwhile, assuming there is one to be found.
4) Did anyone ever read the book about NS? I know some of you have previously contacted the author... There is a little info here about the contents of the book, if you have not read it, it's worthwhile. http://www.nathanstubblefield.com/contents.html
More later, but I just wanted to say "hello"
Steve
@ Steve:
My friend (He posted on here as Maddog) and I were planning to go to the Stubblefield museum located in Murry, Ky. Stubblefield's old farm was located on what is now the Murry University campus. My friend, and his wife and daughter, were killed in a car accident a few weeks ago. I kind of lost my desire to go there at this time, but I will get there.
My friend spoke to someone there who said they didn't think any of the actual earth batteries survived. Mostly, Stubblefield's local fame was centered around his telephone system and earth radio cells so they might not have considered the importance of his earth batteries when deciding what to keep, and what not to keep. She did not think they had any in the collection.
I discovered that I was blowing fuses when measuring my coil on the 20 mA scale. I had always used that scale on my earlier work with the electrodes (around 6-9 mA) so no problem. Inside, and dry, no problem. Wet inside (about 19mA) still no problem. Outside.....poof! Like an idiot, and three fuses later, I decided to use the 200 mA scale. Now I have seen up to 80 mA's on a semi-regular basis. I can be a little slow at times. It was my fault and ignorance. A lot to learn here. Good to have you with us.
Bill
Quote from: canada765 on April 26, 2008, 11:38:23 AM
I can't believe I made it to the end of this thread,...
... I hope I can add some value here as well. ...
good job. welcome oh Tenacious Determined One! ;) ;D
with your ability to hold a focus you surely will be adding to this.
Quote4) Did anyone ever read the book about NS?
Not yet. I just read from your link. Thank you.
I didn't realize Lochte found so much information so I was dawdling. This week (or whenever they reply) for sure.
Thank you for that and all the other reminders!
and welcome, Steve.
jeanna
@jeanna
Some of the tesla things your reffering to are taken out of contex and really dont apply to this. In some circumstances with high voltage a disruptive discharge from a spark gap was wanted and in others it was dampened by magnetic or dilectric means. This is here nor there tho in the scheme of building this stubblefield cell . If you have time read up on basic ac and dc setups uses and differences. It will help you understand this a lot better. As well readings on basic transformer design as i said before. Not trying to be rude , i just see you making comments i know dont really fit and i think your just lacking a little background knowledge to help you further.
Joe
;)
@jeanna
jeez i must be mistaken
take care
Joe
PS
It was a bit of nemesis to Tesla and part of his reason to change to ac (or something like that. He saw people die because of this burst or something). The regular amound settles in and you never see this burst again unless you restart the dc generators...
That is completly wrong and false info you should remove it , tesla commonly used the current of strong electromotive for created by the shorting of a motor or generator in his working circuits and timing circuits. Refrence pat 568177
I just made myself behave while I took today's readings.
By behave, I mean I was very systematic and I only turned on the dmm once at the beginning. then I put the clips of the probes to the various spots.
Yes I saw plenty of spikes.
So, I am convinced they are there at the beginning of the reading and not because the meter just turned on.
And they still resemble those curves I made pix of from Barry's coilgun site when the oscillations are almost there or not at all-but just one high point.
jeanna
Joe, I will check out that patent to see if that is what I was talking about. I pormise to remove anything misleading if I think it is. (for the same reason I jump on cotton cuz it is not in the patent and is misleading - I do understand the importance of not being misleading. ;) )
j
EDIT: No, that is not it.
I was talking about DC. When the DC (as in Edison ) generators turned on. I will still look, but I will also be in the yard today back n forth.
@ Bill, Jeanna
Thanks for the warm welcome! Bill I hope someday you can still visit the museum. I was sorry to hear about your friend also. Maybe someday you can visit and in his honor, I am sure he would want you to do that... So even if there are no earth batteries in there it might help to see what type of other materials he used in his experiments.... Also if you manage to find an address/phone number for the museum please pass it along
I found this link on NS. Mostly talks about the wireless radios but it is still a good read if you have not read it.
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Nathan_Stubblefield
NS's relationship with Tesla and others is talked about. Also this little tid bit quote from Bedini I found interesting, addressing the "heat" produced by metals...
Bedini: Two highly polished metal mirrors, which faced each other, radiate a very great heat in rippling waves.If you take a piece of copper, and you polish it highly and then you take a piece of steel, and you polish it highly, and you face these two things together, so that there is a doppler-shift in the light, you get heat, you can actually feel it. So there is no reason, why we can't pull the energy right from the earth, and heat the house.
cool huh? I hadn't seen this before !!! Anyone tried anything like this? Might be worth an experiment or 2 ?
Joe,
ok, I've got some comments on the "make n' break" but I will post again in a little bit :-)
Regards
Steve
@Steve
Welcome and great. talk to ya soon. :)
joe
Quote from: jeanna on April 26, 2008, 04:25:20 PM
I just made myself behave while I took today's readings.
By behave, I mean I was very systematic and I only turned on the dmm once at the beginning. then I put the clips of the probes to the various spots.
Yes I saw plenty of spikes.
So, I am convinced they are there at the beginning of the reading and not because the meter just turned on.
And they still resemble those curves I made pix of from Barry's coilgun site when the oscillations are almost there or not at all-but just one high point.
jeanna
Joe, I will check out that patent to see if that is what I was talking about. I pormise to remove anything misleading if I think it is. (for the same reason I jump on cotton cuz it is not in the patent and is misleading - I do understand the importance of not being misleading. ;) )
j
EDIT: No, that is not it.
I was talking about DC. When the DC (as in Edison ) generators turned on. I will still look, but I will also be in the yard today back n forth.
Jeanna
Im going to be real. I know waht you were reffering to the whole tesla story of him overloading the generators and it was for a completly different reason than you think. i mentioned the patent to give you a way out to just say yes but now im gonna be blunt. That has nothign to do with what were workign on with with this patent. Unless youd like to dicuss high voltage transietnt currents in the other thread i see no relevance. please dont tell new comers waht to post here and what not to. And id like the folks in this thread trying to replicate to use cotton insulation because its worked the best thus far so were going with it. Ok if you want to push another view and back it up with higher readings please present it but unitll then id like folks not to get confused spenend hrs windign and get results like yours as opposed to some of the higher ones with cotton .
Joe
@ Joe, everyone,
From one of Chad's previous postings ,
"i also connected the terminals 5&6 to a magnetic reed switch and used a motor with a disc mounted ontop with 4 magnets mounted at 90 degree intervals so a total of 4 magnets."
I think this was/is a really good idea for the "make n' break" device, very clean connections and you can control the RPM of the motor much easier to affect the frequency of the pulses. Joe, I know you were working on a relay based device previously for the "make n' break". Although this should work ok eventually you may find that the relay/contacts burn out etc. Also more difficult to control the on/off pulse frequency. I wasn't sure you were still going to use the relay device but I wanted to throw in my 2 cents. As a kid I experimented with using relays a lot and I burned many out by overuse. :-[
Joe I think you also figured out a lot about the "make n' break" device that was not in the patent so good going there. I was saying "yea man" many times when reading your ideas about it. 8) But one thing still bothering me a little bit, For one, if NS didn't talk about this device then "what else" wasn't mentioned in the patent or possibly further research proved otherwise. I'm bothered a little by the 2 supposedly "unused" primary contacts (10). Even though the patent says they were unused or left open he still made the effort to bring them to the top of the coil exposed so that they could be accessed if they needed to be. ..
Ok, here is a theory, pure speculation but, If you do the "make n' break" just with terminals 5 & 6 you get a resulting field in the secondary, I can buy that just fine, but if you were to do a "make n' break" with 10 (so 10 "make n' break" to 10 opposite to when you "make n' break" 5 & 6 ) you would or should get an opposite force magnetic field in the secondary which would make it twice the original amplitude. Does any of this make sense ? Hopefully you understand what I mean. I'm just referring to the possibility of adding the 10's to the "make n' break" circuit but they would "make n' break" opposite to when 5 & 6 "make n' break"
So I'm not saying or even implying that this was done, - it may not even work - but It's just a thought, could it effectively not double the size of the field induced in the secondary? Again, just thinking out loud here, it may or may not make sense I realize. :-\
Regards
Steve
@Steve
Somethign to try deff. After the tests ive doen so far tho it shorts em if you do anything with the 10's. Worth a try tho. Great idea with the reed switch too i hadent thought of that and it is much cleaner than contacts ;D
Cheers
Joe
@ Joe,
So the 10's are one of the copper and one iron of the primary if I am not mistaken. Ok there should be no short in the circuit if the 5&6 are connected when the 10's are open and vice versa. It should produce more of a sine wave pattern in the secondary I would think but double the amplitude. We'd just have to build a new "make n' break" device so that when the 5&6 is connected the 10's are not and when the 10's are connected the 5&6 is not connected. It would be fairly easy to build, if you want a schematic I can do it. If my logic is off please let me know ::)
Cheers
Steve
@Steve
I gotcha now i thought you meant both at the same time, not alternating back and forth. i think a dpdt relay would do that nicely.
Joe
@ Joe,
That is correct. Sorry if I did not explain it well, I wasn't wearing my 3d sunglasses 8)
There is so much about this "make & break" circuit that we don't know about that it literally (no pun intended) can make or break the operation of the device. Someone may have to experiment with a pulse generator of some sort to try to narrow down specifications that cause the device to work as designed. (So a pulse generator powering relays or something....) It would be so cool if anyone can find more on what NS was using for this "make n' break".... Otherwise it may take a lot of experimentation to see what it takes to make it work as he had intended. But maybe it will be easier than I think and I hope so ;D
Cheers
Steve
@Steve
Yes for test taht would be a good setup. this thing creates its own power without any external so id like to keeep to the passive ideas or ones like the reed switch with spinning mags.
Joe
@ Joe
I do agree with you in that we should try to stick to materials commonly found at that time for attempting to duplicate his experiment whenever possible. If for whatever reason the device does not work as you expect then some modifications may be necessary. The "make n' break" device for example we don't know the frequency and duty cycle (on versus off time of the pulse) and worst case scenario we could employ some more modern devices to try to narrow it down and back engineer to a device that will produce the correct pulse and frequency; that is what I was getting at more or less. But I think using the KISS method is the best starting place with something like the motor and spinning mags with the reed switch...
This article about Tesla is interesting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnifying_Transmitter
particularly this part,
Using low frequency harmonic Maxwellian oscillations, Tesla attempted to develop standing waves of extremely low frequency in the Earth's electro-magnetic circuit. Based upon observations made with the device, Tesla reported that a type of Earth resonance - involving the Earth's telluric energy - could be excited with the magnifying transmitter. He discovered that the resonance frequency of the Earth was approximately 8 hertz (Hz). In the 1950s, researchers confirmed that the resonance frequency of the Earth's ionospheric cavity was in this range. See Schumann resonance
So perhaps 8 hertz is the answer for this freqnency for the make/break circuit. Anyone have any other ideas?
The other thing is if NS was using pitchblende to alter/enhance the operation of this device then that definately throws a wrench in this whole thing. I get the feeling he experimented with it "after the fact" so to speak. He may have just been trying to get more voltage or current through the primary but of course there may have been more to it. It's also possible he could have connected more cells to the 10 connections of the primary coil to get more power going through the device but I'm just speculating here. I also think placement of the cell is important and we shold look at dowsing for "hot spots" before inserting some of these cellsl; it seems like a worthwhile experiment anyway. I need to re-educate myself more about coils, induction, L/C circuits etc. I've forgotten too much... :-[
Steve
@steve
Easiest way ive foudn to do taht is this, Put a pot or rehostat in line with the motor thats doign the timing operation so we can adjust its speed wtih a knob. then scope the output of the ac on the secondary to see waht timings produce the largest spikes.
Joe
@ Joe, Everyone
Yea the rheostat in line to the power of the motor should work fine. Also it's possible to adjust the duty cycle (on and off time) of the pulse by adding or removing magnets to the disc. One way to have a 50% duty cycle (where the on pulse = off pulse) just line up enough magnets to cover 1/2 the circumference (end to end) on the disc. That can be played with and adjusted fairly easily. How important the pulse width will be ultimately I don't know but at least it can be adjusted if necessary by moving the magnets around. I think Chad just had 4 magnets equally spaced on the outter part of the disk if I'm not mistaken and that could work just fine... The only thing you have to remember is where there is a magnet you will have an "on" condition when it passes the reed switch. (which is connected to the 5 & 6 contacts)
The only problem about determining the frequency (of the make n' break) is that most people don't have scopes or frequency counters and for those who don't they can just adjust the rheostat slowly and monitor the output voltage of the secondary with a meter. They won't be able to determine the frequency of the "make n' break" but should be able to see if there are any increases in voltage while playing with the rheostat. Clear as mud hopefully ? If anyone is confused I'll attempt to clear it up, hopefully I'm not losing anyone...
Cheers,
Steve
@ll
Been away again and refreshed.
Jim
@ steve
welcome, I read your info on the making and breaking of coil contacts, thats correct about them burning out, I was once told by one of my bosses in telecom, if you don't want them to arc, then set up a series of switches in the circuit. He was right, it stopped the arcing.
But to use that method in a rotrary magnet, wouldnt work unless it was precicely setup.
Looking at my cro, the wave form is not constant like the usual sine square wave, it varies considerabbly, in fact the peeks and lows have the wobbles all over the place, the amplitude, goes up and down, nothing is constant.
In fact, to be honest, it appears there is a multiplude of signals, I'm just being swamped with signals, what it is, is anyones guess.
I was thinking of another way to do this, (all thery mind you).
Setup 2 NS cells, using one to be the controller of the other NS cell, as the pulses arrive, they could be collapsed at the top of the pulse by a transister (BC458) which could in turn drive a (2n3055) to take the heavy current, in the 2nd NS cell.
Have reverse diodes to prevent any Trs being blown.
I also think a resisteor has to be in the primary somewhere, dont know why,just a hunch, I think at some stage, someone said they are getting warmth in their cells, this is "excess" energy being radiated as heat. If anyone shorts a secondary output on a ordinary transformer, the iron core saturates and it gets hot, sometimes they burn out.
Just a thought.
@ jeanna,
All is happy in the camp, chin up mate.
Remember my 1st post? I mentioned you were the one who was the most determined, sometimes we need a rudder to keep us on line, (I do at times) so dont give up.
@ all
Who loves to dive into the device when it says, break the seal and the warranty is broken? I sure doooooo, I lov v v e it.
Why, because theres nothing like hands on experience to find out what and how it works.
Whats a transformer? Grab a redundant plug Pak that goes in the wall, tap it all around the black side where the seam is (breaks the glue) with a hammer. Then prise it apart with a screwdriver. (wear safety glasses). watch the pinkies.
You should see a square thing, thats the transformer, the primary winding is the wires going to the wall pins, the secondary is the wires going to a small diode and capacitor which feed the long wires going from the plug pak.
This is an exercise for those of you who have never looked into a plugpak lol.
I found a microwave at the local dump, got the transformer, micro switches, HV capacitor (.95F AC) fast switching diodes (2) and some relays etc etc.
@Bill n Joe
Take a looksee at sillicon chipp this month, big article on super capacitors, I got the full info so to speak, let me know if you need more enlightening.
wow theres a lot on this post [51] n [50]
PS don't put the wires feed from the rods in the ground, on the tip of your tongue, it hurts more than a 9v batt ouch big time.
lol
jim
@ Jim
Thanks for the welcome Jim.
>I was once told by one of my bosses in telecom, if you don't want them to arc, then set up a series >of switches in the circuit. He was right, it stopped the arcing.
>But to use that method in a rotrary magnet, wouldnt work unless it was precicely setup.
>
>Looking at my cro, the wave form is not constant like the usual sine square wave, it varies >considerabbly, in fact the peeks and lows have the wobbles all over the place, the amplitude, goes >up and down, nothing is constant.
>In fact, to be honest, it appears there is a multiplude of signals, I'm just being swamped with signals, >what it is, is anyones guess.
Are you talking about looking at the voltage (with the Cro) on the primary winding or what? I'm a little lost if your not. It's my feeling that the on/off puse generated using a motor with a spinning disc with magnets would produce a pretty clean on/off pulse. I also think, for this thread anyway, Joe's intent was to try to build this thing using materials that could be found when NS was building it. True that reed switches did not exist that I know of but it's relatively simple technology still and just replacing the idea of using copper brushes to make the contacts instead with the rotating disk. Nothing wrong with your transistor idea, just that the technology hadn't been "invented/given-to-us-by-aliens" yet (I'm not saying don't pursue it however) :)
>wow theres a lot on this post [51] n [50]
Ah I was having some difficulty sleeping and my hand would not shut up so thare you go, lol
>PS don't put the wires feed from the rods in the ground, on the tip of your tongue, it hurts more than >a 9v batt ouch big time.
>lol
Now that was a worthwhile experiment ! lol . If it seemed like there was more power than what you get from a 9V that is interesting, your mouth never lies right (at least I hope not), lol
Steve
@ Steve,
Yop, I have no probs building the Stubblefield cells using the original methods, in fact I encourage it, when there is a working cell, then I think thats the time to make it different, but only when we have reached that position Steve.
I would love anyone reading this, to post a photo (close up) of an original NS cell, I want to take a close up look at the insulation, see if just the iron wire or copper wire is insulated with cotton or silk, etc, or both are insulated. If only there was one.
Using reed switches, Steve, I have no experience with them, but im sure they could give some results, if the 7 or 8 hz freq alters or jumps around, then I was thinking it would be difficult to speedup or slow down a spinning disk to keep frequency lock.
I saw only photo where a NS cell was hooked up to a phone, but, I think Stubblefield was using the coil as a frequency locking timing device, but not having been there to actually see this, I cannot say yes for sure.
Steve if you take a look back about 5 eposodes, you will see I claimed some readings with my cro, well it seems they were tainted by the earth return from my house, so I have to begin all over again.
This time, I am reading the CRO without cliping the earth, only using a probe. Not much to report about them.
BTW, if you live in the neighbourhood of Bill, why dont you two get together and make that trip to the mesumn, like Bill was going to do with Maddog? Two heads are better than one, two sets of eyes may not miss seeing something just one set might have missed.
I believe there is a trunk of Stubblefields there somewhere hidden away.
Jim
Â
@all
Cheers,
very nice to come back and see so much thoughtfull thingking about switchign devices. Hopefully i can use my stimulus check to buy some wire and assorted goodies to get my big model on the road.
Joe
My feeling on the switching, considering the materials they had at the time, is that he used a simple switch that is opened when the bolt becomes magnetic for the brief second when they were closed by a spring. So when the bolt is magnetic the circuit is opened and the bolt is not magnetic and the spring takes over and closes the circuit and I suppose it would go at a speed relative to the length of the primary winding. The longer the primary winding the slower the pumping?? Also I recall dr. timothy talking about a capacitor in there somewhere. Maybe it was also involved in regulating the pulse timing?
Soon I will duplicate the NS battery as close to the patent as possible and put a normally closed reed switch between one of the copper and one of the iron leads and try to get the distance to the bolt right so as to create this pumping.
@ storre
Hello and welcome to the group.
What you say is right about the working of the magnetic principle on the iron core, I know that we are playing with very small currents and voltages, it is very difficult to setup a relay coil to match them.
I suppose it would go at a speed relative to the length of the primary winding.
This again is variable, it would also be affected by the springness of the armature, the type of very fine adjustment if fittered, to allow one to fine tune. The "gap" distance between the armature contacts at rest & closed.
On one hand, it is very easy to make a relay work on 12v dc powered by a car battery, but on the other, quite difficult to do the same with the voltage & currents from a Stubblefield Cell.
I have a number of PCB mounted "miniture" relays, I might muck about with them a bit today and see if I can get one to thro at a voltage lower than 1/2 volt.
@ bill
I havent got back to my instrument making yet, will have to sort that out later also
Jim
@ all
I stumbled onto a site that is involved with VLF, they make reference to magnetic fields, etc they have made circuits to detect them, anyhow, I think it is worth a look and see if we can use anything in our setups, could be nothing as well.
http://www.techlib.com/electronics/VLFwhistle.htm
Theres a lot of other technical stuff in this site as well. :)
Late today, I made up another lead going from another set of cu & Al pipes connected in series, the lead comes into the kitchen along with the previous setup.
Its getting too cold here now to go outside to measure (onset of winter), I'll do it in the comfort of the house.
(working smarter is brainer)
Jim
I came across this following video and I thought that the circuitry may be of interest to some of you.
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/915226/free_electricity_from_thin_air/
@nightlife
Thanks for the offer ive seen it and i think its already being dicussed here on antother thread. But if anyone hasent seen it its a cool little circuit that guy shows ;)
Thanks
Joe
Localjoe, thanks for letting me know it has already been discussed. It saves me the time and money trying to replicate it.
Maybe folks will realize what were replicating here now
@jim
I Checked that site, pretty cool. ;) I Recently did some test in the ground with the cells i made during winter and wanted to share the results. As well the X factor held tru the readings in the ground vs the readings in the water were higher.. Something is there but it's still an x factor. hopefully not an ac motor somewhere in the house ;) As well what if we made a small realy i mean really small for the top of this thing. Say 30 gauge mag wire quarter inch or less diameter, real small contact.. i think .7 v should be enough to drive that. Before i had wanted to use the natural action of the existing primary winds as a relay and just make contact peices but i think this smaller coil relay method might suite our small voltage and current req.
Joe
@ all,
Back again, yes Joe, I have some really small dia insulated cu wire, I was thinking also to put graverty to use with it to.
Im thinking on the lines of using a vertical setup, winding some turns on a hollow former, then hang a steel armature in the middle of it and see what happens when it is connected to the earth rod setup. Connect a diode in series with the windings and see what happens here too.
The thing is (I think) just to get some type of mechanical action, no matter how small, then proceed further.
Later on work out some form of switching do put on it.
jim
Over the weekend I got brave n took a aaa dry cell apart, undid the pos top of the cell, cut down one side of the cell, cut the bottom off, and unpeealed it. Removed the carbon rod, flattened the zink outer casing.
Put the carbon rod in the ground (cleaned it first), put the zink in the ground about 14" away from each other, and measured 1.2 volts.
Last 3 days it has been putting out 1.2 v DC, will be going back there on sunday so will recheck my setup then.
BTW, this setup is about 50Klm from where I live.
jim
I have been thinking of ways to make what is in effect a real soft spring for the contacts .
my best idea for contact that is both soft and relatively stable I was thinking of taking a piece of sheet metel about 1/4 by 1/2 in
solder your contact lead to the piece of sheet metal
fold the piece of sheet metal in half and fold it flat " clipping " it to a rubberband .
A piece of wood or plastic would have to be attached to the end of the coil
It would have to have a hole for the core ...... through it ......and maybe 2 inches on each side of the core .
the rubber band could be placed around this piece of wood or plastic so that the sheet metal contact was flat on the core bolt .
I am thinking that about 1 inch is needed on each side (of the bolt) for free movement up and down . so outside of that one inch you could use shims made of plasitc , thin cardboard or maybe tooth picks to space the contacts just far enough away to break the contact .
the rubber band should not be real tight ....
I hope that this makes sense .
It was about 5 times harder to explain than I expected
gary
.
@ Gary
yeah, your idea could work OK, might have trouble with the wire soldered to the 1/2 X 1/4" armature, a solid cu wire will work, but it will fracture sooner than my suggestion here, what do you think of this gary? use the loud speaker wire, the one which goes from the cone to the soldered contact, they are platted or wovern?
These are designed to withstand millions of flexture as the voice coil goes in and out of the speaker magnet.
jim
Quote from: electricme on May 06, 2008, 04:32:16 AM
@ Gary
yeah, your idea could work OK, might have trouble with the wire soldered to the 1/2 X 1/4" armature, a solid cu wire will work, but it will fracture sooner than my suggestion here, what do you think of this gary? use the loud speaker wire, the one which goes from the cone to the soldered contact, they are platted or wovern?
These are designed to withstand millions of flexture as the voice coil goes in and out of the speaker magnet.
jim
Jim
your loudspeaker wire sounds good .
My idea for the wire was to have it a couple inches long at 90 degees to the rubberband ......it would help keep the contact from swinging both side to side and on its axis
I agree that the wire will eventually break also the rubber band will decay and break
This is not a put it in the ground and forget it for years idea .
This is a test to prove it can work .
then make a bigger coil
once the coils are large enough we can switch to " standard " components
gary
@Gary & Jim
Great suggestions.  I took a 4 inch wrapping paper cardboard roll and cut a section down to sizesay twelve inches tall, i then proceded to wind a single layer solonid style coil with the green radio shack magnet wire. First i can use this as a modular secondary for testing, second i think the group should pull in some more material science knowledge so we can get a small design set to just give new folks to start with. I really like .. i wanna say it was freezer or another gentelmen here who used the wood end caps like stubblefield did and a long bolt to secure them.  As jim mentioned before a small cordless skrewdriver or corded with a hex head in the chuck for the bolt would work well as a mini lathe for us to wind with. Anyways i have two questions to throw out there, 1 i dint think ac was suspost to show up unless a load was present in a transformer sense.. that brings me to is my meter acting as a load in a dead short on the secondary winding. Im thinking yes but i could be wrong. it would act like a resistive load either way not an inductave one so the readings should hold true but should i put a resistor in line like a 1k ohm or somethign is wahts eating at me?
                                                     Joe
Quote from: Localjoe on May 06, 2008, 12:38:52 PM
@Gary & Jim
Great suggestions. I took a 4 inch wrapping paper cardboard roll and cut a section down to sizesay twelve inches tall, i then proceded to wind a single layer solonid style coil with the green radio shack magnet wire. First i can use this as a modular secondary for testing, second i think the group should pull in some more material science knowledge so we can get a small design set to just give new folks to start with. I really like .. i wanna say it was freezer or another gentelmen here who used the wood end caps like stubblefield did and a long bolt to secure them. As jim mentioned before a small cordless skrewdriver or corded with a hex head in the chuck for the bolt would work well as a mini lathe for us to wind with. Anyways i have two questions to throw out there, 1 i dint think ac was suspost to show up unless a load was present in a transformer sense.. that brings me to is my meter acting as a load in a dead short on the secondary winding. Im thinking yes but i could be wrong. it would act like a resistive load either way not an inductave one so the readings should hold true but should i put a resistor in line like a 1k ohm or somethign is wahts eating at me?
Joe
I am not sure I understand your question about AC
I was getting small AC reading on my first coil ...... none on my pancakes.
I remember reading that the secondary ACTED like there was AC , or something along those lines
My guess is that it is that it is probably another form of electricity
gary
Quote from: resonanceman on May 06, 2008, 12:58:23 PM
Quote from: Localjoe on May 06, 2008, 12:38:52 PM
@Gary & Jim
Great suggestions.  I took a 4 inch wrapping paper cardboard roll and cut a section down to sizesay twelve inches tall, i then proceded to wind a single layer solonid style coil with the green radio shack magnet wire. First i can use this as a modular secondary for testing, second i think the group should pull in some more material science knowledge so we can get a small design set to just give new folks to start with. I really like .. i wanna say it was freezer or another gentelmen here who used the wood end caps like stubblefield did and a long bolt to secure them.  As jim mentioned before a small cordless skrewdriver or corded with a hex head in the chuck for the bolt would work well as a mini lathe for us to wind with. Anyways i have two questions to throw out there, 1 i dint think ac was suspost to show up unless a load was present in a transformer sense.. that brings me to is my meter acting as a load in a dead short on the secondary winding. Im thinking yes but i could be wrong. it would act like a resistive load either way not an inductave one so the readings should hold true but should i put a resistor in line like a 1k ohm or somethign is wahts eating at me?
                                                     Joe
I am not sure I understand your question about AC
I was getting small AC reading on my first coil ...... none on my pancakes.
I remember reading that the secondary ACTED like there was AC ,  or something along those lines
My guess is that it is  that it is probably another form of electricity
gary
\
Im sorry i wasent that clear after re reading it. Im reffering to my secondary as the green magnet wire spool i wrapped on the tube described above and i just fit that over waht im calling my primary wich is the bimetallic couple of the copper and steel/iron wires woudn side by side on a cloth insulated bolt, my copper is insulated with cloth steel is bare. i was intermittently touching the ends of the terminals 5 and 6 of the copper and steele/iron wire and had my meter connected to the secondary wire the green magnet stuff on the cardboard i made so no connection between my primary couple and the meter other than in the transformer sense between the secondary and primary coils secondary being single wire primary being bifilar copper and steel. :)
                                                                                         Joe
              Â
@ Joe:
I know now you are speaking about ac off the secondary...right? But remember, most of us got "ac" off the primaries alone. At least, ac readings. Have we yet settled this as being meter anomalies or is there real ac there? I sort of remember we did, but then we didn't. I recall two checks with o'scopes by some folks but I can't recall if we really learned anything from them. What do you recall? I get about .8 vdc and about 1.3 ac off the primary alone. I wish I could tell what this really is, or is not.
Bill
@Bill
My readings are very close to what you have a little less .8 vdc 1.1 vac. ;D I am reffering to ac on the secondary tho yes in the above example. I still dont know waht to make of it either but im trying to not let it bother me. As far as the transfomer function of it the "make and break device" / device of interpositon just simply makes and breaks the connection so wether were transforming ac or dc i do not know but the end result on the secondary is ac not dc. Thats as far as ive gotten with it. This new secondary accutaly shows higher readings than the cheapo wire i hadbefore and it isnt even tight to the coil body at least an inch away in all directions plus the thickness of the cardboard which isnt much.
Joe
@bill,
I have an answer (i think) to your question to joe.
"Have we yet settled this as being meter anomalies or is there real ac there?"
I have just been reading my latest copy of Silicon Chip Magazine and I quote from P 37 SC May 2008,
"Note that the voltage measured across the generator coil will not be anywhere near the voltage that it develops when running.
That's because the multimeter does not respond well to the low-frequency voltage fluctuations that occur when kicking the engine over.
In addition, most multi-meters do not respond to the peak of the waveform but to the average of a sinewave" unquote.
Now this is news to me, I will ring the staff and get some more info about this shortly, bill, this was taken from an article which allows one to build and replace the ignition module on a lawnmower, motorbike etc.
The reason I posted this is mainly because of the middle "quote" line, multimeter does not respond well to the lo-frequency voltage,
Do we need an even more sensitive test instrument? I don't know.
jim
@ Jim:
Great information! I have always wondered about this. As most know, we have seen "measured" ac on almost all of our experiments. I have read in my electronic textbooks that this is a meter anomaly. But then, I have read many things similar to what you posted. A few have used scopes, which should be able to "see" but, correct me if I am wrong, the results were inconclusive. I know all measuring equipment has its limitations. I am not pulling for one way or the other. I would just like to "know". (if possible) Keep us posted. Thanks.
Bill
Thanks bill,
this is one of the reasons I have wanted to make my own measuring eq, but wanting to and getting something actually working is 2 totally different things lol.
I wonder what instruments stubblefield used, hmmmmm
jim
@all
I had a long talk with an "expert" over the weekend and it seems that bills suspicions and jims are right. What were measuring is not showing up completely or at all.. Jim if delving into replication of measuring device consider the tesla patent that describes his device for measuring currents. i think that what its called , pm me and i will send it to u or link if you want. Lets take a look a the doppler shift phenomon and consider what nathan may have been doing with ac current feeding two polished plates one copper and one iron.. not parabolic mirrors. Also any info on a gravitational waves that are measurable or trappable along ley lines. Think of a constantly moving wave that if we could channel it might do some work for us .. that was the concept i was given If there is a carrier wave that constantly travles these lines ect we would could ride it and let it do some work for us as well we could demodulate it and use some of the noise in it. The pith ball apparatus as well as the plates Ideas are welcome even if crazy for this request so have at it.
Joe
Quote from: Localjoe on May 10, 2008, 02:05:52 PM
@all
I had a long talk with an "expert" over the weekend and it seems that bills suspicions and jims are right. What were measuring is not showing up completely or at all.. Jim if delving into replication of measuring device consider the tesla patent that describes his device for measuring currents. i think that what its called , pm me and i will send it to u or link if you want. Lets take a look a the doppler shift phenomon and consider what nathan may have been doing with ac current feeding two polished plates one copper and one iron.. not parabolic mirrors. Also any info on a gravitational waves that are measurable or trappable along ley lines. Think of a constantly moving wave that if we could channel it might do some work for us .. that was the concept i was given If there is a carrier wave that constantly travles these lines ect we would could ride it and let it do some work for us as well we could demodulate it and use some of the noise in it. The pith ball apparatus as well as the plates Ideas are welcome even if crazy for this request so have at it.
Joe
Joe
You are probably going to hate me for this ...............but I would describe what you talk about in this post as the non galvanic part of the stubblefield battery .
That is what I have been looking into all along .
It is what the speculations thread was started for .
gary
Well gary we all come to our own answers in different ways, maybe my bad day and talk with another inventor opened my eyes a bit so no i dont hate ya at all for saying that , i commend you for pointing it out.
Joe
Quote from: Localjoe on May 10, 2008, 03:56:12 PM
Well gary we all come to our own answers in different ways, maybe my bad day and talk with another inventor opened my eyes a bit so no i dont hate ya at all for saying that , i commend you for pointing it out.
Joe
Joe
I am glad that you are not mad
Any ideas on how to tap this "other " energy
I am out of ideas at the moment .
gary
@ Joe:
I agree. Remember way back in the early part of our efforts with the electrodes? It seemed we had new folks coming in every other day and saying that all this was is a galvanic reaction. We then, repeatedly, explained the many reasons for it not to be so.
Now, with the coils, I think most, if not all, of the same things we were seeing back then still apply. There is no electrolyte, per se, and no real contact between the dissimilar metals due to the cotton insulation. So, I still believe that not much, if any, of what we see is galvanic. I think Stubblefield found a way to simulate our north/south electrode set-up all in one device. It somehow has its own north and south and + and - all in one. For all we know, he may very well have started out as we have done, using separate electrodes and then discovered a new, better way.
Bill
@ bill
nice new id picki, cool shades ;D
just lettin u all know, my HD had problems, somehow XP Pro went into an endless boot on friday, I think it's sorted but I will reboot 3 times to make sure.
If you dont hear from me 4 a while, Ill b saving up 4 a HD :D also I gotta go have a barium swallo test tomorra, been having troubles in swallowing, hope nothing serious here, but 1 good thing, I gotta see what happens if I connect a + wire to a meter, the - wire to a barium metal thingie :D,,,,, ha ha. rofl only way to get barium metal cheeply. :P
its tru I kid you not. OK gotta think up how to connect on barium doos
comments welcome...................
OK gotta go an reboot 3 times, hope it works OK
If the pc stalls, then I'll post on my laptop.
here goes.
jim
Quote from: electricme on May 11, 2008, 12:47:09 AM
@ bill
nice new id picki, cool shades ;D
just lettin u all know, my HD had problems, somehow XP Pro went into an endless boot on friday, I think it's sorted but I will reboot 3 times to make sure.
If you dont hear from me 4 a while, Ill b saving up 4 a HD :D also I gotta go have a barium swallo test tomorra, been having troubles in swallowing, hope nothing serious here, but 1 good thing, I gotta see what happens if I connect a + wire to a meter, the - wire to a barium metal thingie :D,,,,, ha ha. rofl only way to get barium metal cheeply. :P
its tru I kid you not. OK gotta think up how to connect on barium doos
comments welcome...................
OK gotta go an reboot 3 times, hope it works OK
If the pc stalls, then I'll post on my laptop.
here goes.
jim
Jim
good luck with your test tomorow
Hope it all gets better
Was that the first trouble you have had with this hard drive ?
I usually reformat once or twice before I give up on the drive .
gary
@ Jim:
Thanks. Same picture, I just zoomed in a bit and played with the contrast.
Best of luck to you on your test! I guess you will be radioactive for a little while then. Hey, if we poured barium on our cells I wonder if..........
If you can get another drive, I would suggest installing the new drive as a slave and then ghosting the primary drive to it and then switch them out. This will save you from installing everything again, unless, if you are having severe software probs, a clean install might work out better. I run two drives for this reason. I ghost from one drive to the other as a back-up (including boot files) and if my primary crashes, I just swap out to the secondary. Although I will admit to not backing up as often as I probably should.
Again, good luck on the tests.
Bill
@all
I just defragged and rebooted 3 times, all went OK.
and thanks everyone 4 the good wishes, dont mind saying im a bit frightened, but that is life.
Gota duck off now, see you all about wednesday.
might have a handfull of silver nuggits later on ;D
hoo roo
Jim
Quote from: Pirate88179 on May 11, 2008, 01:38:23 AM
@ Jim:
Thanks. Same picture, I just zoomed in a bit and played with the contrast.
Best of luck to you on your test! I guess you will be radioactive for a little while then. Hey, if we poured barium on our cells I wonder if..........
If you can get another drive, I would suggest installing the new drive as a slave and then ghosting the primary drive to it and then switch them out. This will save you from installing everything again, unless, if you are having severe software probs, a clean install might work out better. I run two drives for this reason. I ghost from one drive to the other as a back-up (including boot files) and if my primary crashes, I just swap out to the secondary. Although I will admit to not backing up as often as I probably should.
Again, good luck on the tests.
Bill
Bill
is ghost a program ?
I have an external drive that I don't use
I should be backing my drive up on it .......but I havn't been ...... I guess I am to cheep to pay for backup program that I think really should be free or almost free .
gary
Yes, Ghost is a Norton product. There are several others out there that work fine as well. Possibly Joe could recommend one over the other as he knows way more about this than I. I thought about setting up the drives in the RAID configuration that mirrors the drives constantly, which is probably the best way, but I would have to purchase additional hardware and software which costs much more than the $40.00 or so for Norton Ghost, or similar product.
With your external drive, you could just copy your files for a back-up using XP's existing methods. The only problem with this is, if the primary drive crashes, then changes, updates or tweaks you made to the OS will not be copied and will be lost. Like I said, ask Joe. I would be also interested in his opinion on this.
Bill
PS: I am a Hack when it comes to computers. I can usually get them to do what I want, and can modify hardware too, but, I do a lot of trial and error (mostly error) before success. In other words, take computer advice from me at your own risk, Ha ha.
Quote from: Pirate88179 on May 12, 2008, 12:32:47 PM
Yes, Ghost is a Norton product. There are several others out there that work fine as well. Possibly Joe could recommend one over the other as he knows way more about this than I. I thought about setting up the drives in the RAID configuration that mirrors the drives constantly, which is probably the best way, but I would have to purchase additional hardware and software which costs much more than the $40.00 or so for Norton Ghost, or similar product.
With your external drive, you could just copy your files for a back-up using XP's existing methods. The only problem with this is, if the primary drive crashes, then changes, updates or tweaks you made to the OS will not be copied and will be lost. Like I said, ask Joe. I would be also interested in his opinion on this.
Bill
PS: I am a Hack when it comes to computers. I can usually get them to do what I want, and can modify hardware too, but, I do a lot of trial and error (mostly error) before success. In other words, take computer advice from me at your own risk, Ha ha.
Thanks Bill
I don't like microsoft or norton ...... I have been planning on switching to linux because of them and other overly money hungry companies .
back up programs and antivirus are free or very cheep in linux
my only hold up is I use a cell phone card as my modem ......I havn't found a distro that supports it yet .
I am like you ....... I have learned all that I know about computers at the school of hard knocks ..... I can ususally get what I need to done ........if my computer crashes to bad I just reformat the drive .......
it may be getting near that point again .......it has been close to 2 years sense I have reformated if I remember right ........and firefox is starting to freeze at times
gary
@bill
Your right who knows we could have. Quick note the last good version of ghost was 11 corporate it still had a boot cd that was dos based and did all the normal functions- i hate the new gui in windows for it its next to useless because the drive is still in use , i use that version personally and professionally so that would be highly recommended. ;)
Joe
@all,
Hello everyone, I am back, had the test, bill, Im dissapointed in the Drs, they didnt give me the stuff to make me eyes glow ha ha, I got a white thick gluey stuff to drink, and it wont turn to silver nuggits, "bother" :-\ ha ha, ;D.
I took a peek at the xrays, they seem to indicate all is ok except for the bit that goes into the stummach, its a bit narrow there, I recon icecream is the answer!!!! ;)
I had the mother of all headachakes after that lot, whew, what a bonza, ??? an it is still trying to snap at me 1 day after the test.......
OK ... I want to thank everyone for their concern, public and privately expressed, thanks fellas, you R all good mates.
I'll keep you all updated as things develop if necessary. :D
jim
@ Jim:
Very glad to hear the tests were ok. Too bad about the barium, that might have increased the cell output by an order of magnitude, ha ha.
Bill
Diy audio store in australia sells the cotton insulation tubing ive mentioned these guys many of times but here it is for newcomers. This is the cotton insulation for the copper wire.
http://www.diyaudiostore.com/ (http://www.diyaudiostore.com/)
@ All:
Here is a link to a source for cotton covered copper wire. 20 and 22 ga. Kind of expensive but easier than what I have been doing.
http://www.angela.com/catalog/wire-and-solder/Angela_Vintage_Cloth.html (http://www.angela.com/catalog/wire-and-solder/Angela_Vintage_Cloth.html)
Bill
@Bill
Do you think the was coating might stop the electrolyte from getting to the wire?
@ storre:
Crap!! I did not notice that is says tinned and WAXED! Hmm......I don't know how that might effect the coils. Kinda expensive to take a chance. Thanks for noticing that. I was about ready to order some.
Bill
http://www.wickstore.com/
wetbulb wick
Hi all,my first post,I think,but have been following this thead with great interest,a few comments on the simple test I have done.
My scope shows the voltage from my ground probs to be ac,about 8hz,but my meters will only read the amp and volts set at dc.
If I set at ac I get 0,Idon't understand that,I getting about 1 ma and 1/2 a volt.
Also, I found that a pipe,copper,steel etc.hammered into the ground fills up with soil and reduces the output,so I take out the pipe and empty it then replace it for a better reading.
I have tried a 2in dia steel pipe 3in long 2in in the ground scoop out the soil in the centre and put a copper pipe in the middle of the steel one,getting a decent reading.
just thought I would pass it on.
happy hunting.
peter
@peter
Welcome pete, any imput will be read and remarked on with humor (at times) ha ha.
Seriously, we are a great bunch here, we all do things a bit differently, and pull each others legs with gusto. ;D
I see you have a scope, great news, could you let us know how you got to see the 8hz on it? I have a 10mhz scope, but it seems because it is line powered, the earth is interferring with the results. Is your scope a battery powered one?. What is your scope set to?
Regarding your rods in the ground, the method you use to get more energy is probably what I need to use here, I will try and replicate your experiment and get back with the results shortly.
@ all
Has anyone tried using a brass tube as the + in a setup?
BTW I'm in the middle of making a doova to convert water to power my charriot, I'm using nickchroom wire I took off a small room air heater, I have a TENs, which has adjustable intensity and pulce with modulation, maby this will work with it.
I checked my rods in Dalby (my second site 50klms away) over the weekend, the voltage was 1.2v on my DMM, no load, in a week it has fallen to .9volt just sitting there doing nothing.
going outside now to try peters experiment.
jim
Quote from: petersone on May 14, 2008, 06:11:25 PM
Hi all,my first post,I think,but have been following this thead with great interest,a few comments on the simple test I have done.
My scope shows the voltage from my ground probs to be ac,about 8hz,but my meters will only read the amp and volts set at dc.
If I set at ac I get 0,Idon't understand that,I getting about 1 ma and 1/2 a volt.
Also, I found that a pipe,copper,steel etc.hammered into the ground fills up with soil and reduces the output,so I take out the pipe and empty it then replace it for a better reading.
I have tried a 2in dia steel pipe 3in long 2in in the ground scoop out the soil in the centre and put a copper pipe in the middle of the steel one,getting a decent reading.
just thought I would pass it on.
happy hunting.
peter
@ peter
I am feeling that putting it in the ground is more for just keeping it moist to help the electrolysis. It could be working with the natural south north flow of energy but it make not make a big difference if the ns battery is in the ground or above the ground. It just needs to be wet the same as wet cell needs to be wet to function.
Hi folks
good news
I just got a copy of the brochure made by Love and Stubblefield (with some notatinos in his own handwriting)
Thanks to the pogue Library at Kentucky State Univ. for this
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4455.480.html (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4455.480.html) reply 505 and 506 will allow you to get it all. I had to make screen shots into pdf's. the prefixes are in order as they appear in the brochure. (1a-1j)
jeanna
My scope is mains powered,I forget the settings I had it on,but will set it up again and report back,I can get a about 1/3 volt and 1/3ma but can't seem to set up 2 pairs to double the volts,can increase the ma a bit to 1ma with about 4 pairs.
happy hunting
peter
Quote from: petersone on May 15, 2008, 06:36:12 PM
My scope is mains powered,I forget the settings I had it on,but will set it up again and report back,I can get a about 1/3 volt and 1/3ma but can't seem to set up 2 pairs to double the volts,can increase the ma a bit to 1ma with about 4 pairs.
happy hunting
peter
I think per battery the volts will be determined by the electrode potential of the 2 metals iron and copper.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_standard_electrode_potentials
The amperage we can increase by using bigger wires or longer ones. Using longer ones may help the electromagnetism of the coil but to get higher amps we just need bigger electrodes (wires in this case).
We can connect in series the batteries to get more voltage or in parallel to increase the amps but I don't think it's necessary because we can up the volts by using the secondary like the patent suggests. If we want more power, just need to increase the amps of the primary enough to activate (open) the NC reed switch. Once that is pulsing then put a secondary around it and use induction to get whatever volts you need. Amps will always be determined by the amount of metal in the primary plates.
I have'nt looked at coils yet,I'm stiil trying to understand whats going on under the ground,but not getting very far!
happy hunting
peter
I made an earth battery cell out of 10 12" galvanized spikes and THHN/THWN 12 AWG Solid Copper Wire wrapped around it. Each cell gets @ .90VDC but when I try to connect them in series to increase the voltage I get the same voltage as if I ran them parallel. Anybody else experience anything like this?
Any suggestions?
Quote from: singerxyz on May 19, 2008, 07:12:32 AM
I made an earth battery cell out of 10 12" galvanized spikes and THHN/THWN 12 AWG Solid Copper Wire wrapped around it. Each cell gets @ .90VDC but when I try to connect them in series to increase the voltage I get the same voltage as if I ran them parallel. Anybody else experience anything like this?
Any suggestions?
You might be getting the same volts but maybe higher amps if they are all near each other in the same electrolyte. Otherwise your 10 rods are just acting as one really big rod. This also reminds of something looking at the NS patent. One of the wires is cotton wrapped so will not have a problem if the ending or beginning lead of the coil wire is touch any of the rest of the windings. The bare iron wire could run into this problem. That is why he has the wires coming ot where they are coming out. It might be also important to not let the iron wire touch up against the top of the bolt that is connecting it all together. The end end of the winding to go straight out at where it finishes. Because the iron or whatever wire is not insulated touches itself anywhere along the windings then it could effect the electromagnet effect or would it?
@storre
Thanks for the response. You're right- it seems it was a case of the same container (rainwater in a bucket) and probably too close when in the dirt @10" apart. When put in seperate bottles, the series connections worked.
Question: How long would a cell like this maintain a charge in rain water?
Quote from: singerxyz on May 19, 2008, 11:47:14 AM
@storre
Thanks for the response. You're right- it seems it was a case of the same container (rainwater in a bucket) and probably too close when in the dirt @10" apart. When put in seperate bottles, the series connections worked.
Question: How long would a cell like this maintain a charge in rain water?
I can't really say with confidence because I haven't built one but I'm sure there are many threads about it here. I recall reading some. Better we keep this thread more related the the reproduction of the NS battery to not get off track.
I've been offline for a bit but just a quick update. I'm going to be passing through Kentucky in the next couple days and I will try to stop in and see what they have at the museum. Hopefully I can find some clues about what NS was using for some of his materials.
Regards
Steve
Quote from: canada765 on May 20, 2008, 10:19:25 PM
I've been offline for a bit but just a quick update. I'm going to be passing through Kentucky in the next couple days and I will try to stop in and see what they have at the museum. Hopefully I can find some clues about what NS was using for some of his materials.
Regards
Steve
And PLEASE take some pictures!!!! Could be very helpful!
steve
For those looking for NC reed switches I found this. I have some coming from meder but got these to try also.
http://cgi.ebay.com/NIPPON-ALEPH-HYR-1003-REED-SWITCH-N-Close-15-35-AT_W0QQitemZ180234036111QQihZ008QQcategoryZ58169QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247
I have not posted to date as I preferred to finish reading the entire thread prior to doing so. Very interesting thus far.
I do not have a NS cell yet but I do have 12 CU pipes (.5 inch x 4 inches) and Zink nails (around 4inches long) wired in series and in parallel(2 rows of 6). Eventually I will have 3rd row soon. I currently get between 3 to 3.2 volts from it. I will tweak this as I am certain something is amiss as the initial readings were around 4.25 prior to covering them up with dirt.
My DMM will not register amps from it but will from a battery, so my method of measuring is not flawed I dont think and the DMM does function. I did hook a resister (982 ohm) to it and measured the voltage(2.77, prior voltage before I had a full 12 pipes) and calculated the Amps to be 2.8 ma.
Under load of my led circuit (green LED 3.2 or 3.4 volt 21 ma) It drops the cells output from 3 volts to 2.71-2.62 volts. The LED is not full brightness as it would be under battery power.
Individual pipe readings nets me between .96 and .5 volts in or out of the ground. Again the DMM will not measure Amps. I did not attempt a manual calculation on the individual pipes. I suspect my meter incapable of measuring amps from this source.
At some point I will redo the .5 volt ones and attempt a higher voltage. I see no reason the pipes should not be of uniform output with uniform material. Each pipe is filled with dirt and the nail driven in the center and all are buried so the lawn can be mowed and my stuff isnt tore up.
The 6 in series go nail to pipe the 2 in parallel are connected by the end nails and the end pipes, CU + and Zinc Nail -. They are in a grid about 3 inches by 10 inches and are not precisely spaced apart. Too many rocks in the ground. I may or may not dig a section at some point and fix them accordingly.
These are buried outside my window and I run wires into the house and into my breadboard for circuit testing.
I obtained from: http://www.alliedelec.com/Catalog/Indices/Products.asp?sid=48336600C23E17F&No=0&N=4294821930+4294820496
a couple 1.5 Farad 5.5 volt capacitors and a couple 2.3 volt 22 Farad capacitors (yes that is Farad) and emulated the circuit for a shakelight with one 22 farad cap. I tested it by charging it with a battery. The circuit does work, however the Earth battery I crafted will not charge it. Let me rephrase that, It does charge it however it is so slow it would take weeks to charge it to something useful and I can not tell how much it would charge up to. When I say charge I do mean hooking + meter to + Capacitor lead and ?Meter to ? Capacitor lead and measuring the Voltage in the cap. I will experiment again as I do not have the details fresh in my head as to why I quit that line of experimenting.
Gota run so ttyl.
Quote from: Thnder on May 21, 2008, 04:37:14 PM
I do not have a NS cell yet but I do have 12 CU pipes (.5 inch x 4 inches) and Zink nails (around 4inches long) wired in series and in parallel(2 rows of 6). Eventually I will have 3rd row soon. I currently get between 3 to 3.2 volts from it. I will tweak this as I am certain something is amiss as the initial readings were around 4.25 prior to covering them up with dirt.
Welcome Thnder
If I remember right with the kind of cells you made I believe that it said to keep the tops of the cells above ground .
I think your lower voltage and current are a result of leakage between the zinc nails and " other " copper pieces
If you want to cover your cells I would suggest taping a piece of plastic over the top .....
or better yet ....... with the nail and dirt still in the pipe ..... stick a piece if sting into the dirt .( one piece of sting in each end )
Then securely tape up the ends of the copper pipe leaving the end of the strings and wires out
The cell is actually only inside the copper pipe ..... the outside of the copper pipe does not add to the cell ....... except if it is picking up other earth fields, so I would leave much of it exposed .
Enough water should wick in through the string to keep the battery working ..........but the strings should not be a good enough conductor to let the cells short out .
I would test this idea out on a couple of the cells that are closest together ........ that is where the greatest losses should be .
gary
Quote from: singerxyz on May 19, 2008, 07:12:32 AM
I made an earth battery cell out of 10 12" galvanized spikes and THHN/THWN 12 AWG Solid Copper Wire wrapped around it. Each cell gets @ .90VDC but when I try to connect them in series to increase the voltage I get the same voltage as if I ran them parallel. Anybody else experience anything like this?
Any suggestions?
I had the same thing happen to me. i think you need to remove all your cells and add to the outside an insulator like a plastic bag- glass jar- paint the outside of the cell, something so your cells don't short to the next cell. then plant them again and you can wire them in series for more voltage.
I never figured out the work around for Parallel and more amp's good luck there. but then maybe i didn't test all that i could have tested.
hope this helps you out
Thanks Gary I appreciate the input.
I did read about the covering of the exterior of the pipe however I have not attempted to do so. At this point I am not sure I will. I think, as you apparently do, that it would in effect smother them. I may perhaps explore the tape and string, but not until I have what I got planned put in place and I know that my connections and Nails are solid.
As to the buried pipes voltage and leakage, it is possible I suppose but I have to disagree and here is why:
What I had not mentioned is the process I took to my current point I will detail that to the best of my recollection. I have been playing with these since winter. I will be up front before I proceed; I have no more understanding of the forces at work here than anyone else and maybe less than some. What I have gathered, as many here, is that galvanic reaction is NOT the underlying reaction between the metals and the power does not seem to be seepage from my house as far as I can tell. Thus I can have a Zink nail outside the confines of the pipe and say in a fir tree 30' away from my house and still get similar voltage (between .7 and .9) connected to a cu pipe and DMM, next to the tree or outside my window, the same nail can be in the ground the same distance, Six feet or in the top of the pipe it matters not. So in my mind the cell is not limited to the inside of the pipe you can get activity in other ways. This is why I admit the possibility of leakage.
I have hooked a few pipes to one nail and each to their own nail but I have only done them in series with the nail in their centers. Everything else prior was connected with a preceding diode. I used the diodes to keep things separate on the breadboard. I did the nails in the center mainly to neaten things up and to cut down on wire usage. A pleasant side affect was the ability to hook in series. I do not know why the nail inside the pipe allows for series connection and only parallel when it is outside of the pipe. Perhaps it is because the pipe surrounds the majority of the nail completely and perhaps not. Anyways it was easier to manage and kept a buttload of wires from having to come in my window. I have to many wires coming into my window now. Some to my roof, I have voltage there, a 42? coax cable suspended from a tree ( some voltage there) 500? of magnet wire from my house straight out into the woods elevated a good 15? (more voltage). The coax and magnet wire are hooked to air caps and germanium diodes. Nothing special to note there and is unrelated to earth bats. Best so far are my 2x6 pipes and nails. My reasoning for them was dropping a neodium magnet through a 1? copper pipe and it dropping real slow. This seemed far easier then winding a coil to me and I lack the proper wires anyways. I figured it to be a good learning tool. Eventually I will make a real NS coil but funds are tight and I had the pipe and nails.
Back to my process. I first started with 1 pipe and 1 iron rod. Got something and got excited. So I came across this forum and proceeded with zink nails as I have them in abundance 4? long and about 1/4? wide in the middle. These determined my pipe length.
My first real experiment involved Six 4? pipes and nails each separated by six feet approximate and not exact, a visual gauge. The sixth pipe and nail was actually a 12" bolt and the pipe was 1" X 12 ". It was my one test on size and I deemed size irrelevant not being able to test amps. This first batch is 2 in parallel x 3 in series. I toyed with singular pipes and nails, nothing to note aside from an inability to hook in series unless the nail was in their centers. They are comparable to my above 2x6 set when it was 2x3. I then determined distance in this range be it 6? or 1 to 2 inches was irrelevant the voltages were comparable and unable to test amps. Now I am 34 and I live with my father and I am sure this relieved him as now I will not be digging up his entire lawn :P.
I must of course re-plant my first set of six as I wish to have them uniform with my new batch of 12.
Note: I will have an analog amp meter soon from a friend on loan soon. I can then test my 12 incher and my first and second sets of pipes for amps and in my eyes legitimately determine if size and distances matters.
Anyways the first three of the original six I left a bit sticking out of the ground as we still had snow then and I was not worried about lawn mowing. I needed easy access as I had not the wire at the time to bring them inside. Towards the tail end of winter and beginning of spring when the rest of the snow melted I buried them and added the second three. I was also then able to wire them and bring them inside. I had no notable effect in voltage as I recall from the burying. Of course I am terrible with written logs I have none. However I do recall that my voltage was comparable with parts sticking out of the ground and comparable again to being out of the ground and held in hand. These were also separated by more distance.
Once that first six was layed down and toyed with I began my current project. The 2x6. This was done to start with 2 in parallel by 3 in series, I had a few problems with soldering but I was able to get them up and going and buried with no anomalies, meaning the initial voltage was the same once I had them completely covered. I could be wrong of course but I am positive that I have a couple nails out of whack however I have new method for putting the nails in that allows me to observe them in my room prior to burying. The anomaly did not appear until I expanded to 2 in parallel and 6 in series. I had a few busted connections and re-soldering episodes during the expansion?
My third row of 6 is currently sitting in a plastic tub of dirt, in my bedroom and hooked into my breadboard in parallel to my 2x6 outside :P. Once I have the time I will move it outside of course as I do not wish for it to die a premature death. I seem to recall someone did an inside experiment that died eventually?
In summary I had buried a 2x3 set completely side by side no more than 6 inches and no less than 1 inch between any one pipe. I would think I would have noticed an anomaly of leakage with this set and is why I am leaning towards a whacked nail or connection. I hope that clarifies my leaning towards the anomaly being a whacked nail or a soldering connection. I am open to being wrong of course and I will find out once I reset them. At least now once I reset them I won?t be banging my head against the wall if it does not work lol thanks.
One side experiment I got some copper tubing 1/4 inch about 4? long, I wound it in a spiral leaving around a half inch gap and elevated the center about an inch, I then placed a pipe 4? by .5 ? on the center wired that up it reads around 2 volts with my Negative lead from 2x6 group of pipes. I have not a clue why. Originally using its ?own? zink nail planted elsewhere it varies between .7 to 1.05 volts. It sets outside my window on the grass.
My last side experiment was 15 connected aluminum sheets separated by cloth layered over inbetween15 connected copper sheets wood top and bottom and buried produced .25-.37 volts. That was a disappointment. However the aluminum as positive connected to my 2x6 pipes negative was around 1.8 volts likewise the copper sheets was 1.9 volts.
Eventually I may dig it up and see what they do when made into individual cylinders with copper on the outside and aluminum in the center.
Now I realize this is not all Stubblefield coil data however I wanted to bring you all up to speed on what I have done and observed earth related. Maybe it has some relevancy and maybe not I dunno. Perhaps I will move to the speculation thread. Anyways that is where I am at.
What?s cool is all my crap wired into a circuit with my new indoor set of six pipes and nails lights my green led nicely, eventually if left as is, I expect some lightning will ruin my day. I need to figure out something to fix that while being able to play with it inside.
I read something about hotspots a few times in this thread, here is an idea about finding them.
I took some time and researched dowsing, my father has an ability to do this with a branch in the shape of Y. As I have not been able to get that to work the times I tried I found out what it was called and conducted my research. Fascinating topic.
Dowsing I learned has many tools one of which I discovered I could use. L rods or Dowsing rods. They come in many shapes and sizes and you can make your own from simple wire hangars or buy them. Some cost a buttload and some do not. It so happens we had a flood in our basement my father thought was related to a PVC pipe that runs outside the house, lots of snow melt, lots of rain and a plugged pipe = flood. So I needed a method to find the pipe as it has been 30 years and he forgot its exact location.
My test was two hangars cut into a L shape using the full length of the bottom and a hands width part of one side. bent into L. I made two, one for each hand. As my dad can use the Y branch to find water, he was not sure he could find the pipe with it. I think he can but I decided to try it myself. We have 2 wells so it was very simple to test finding their pipes. I succeeded. I went on to mark the suspect pipe, we have yet to dig it up and prove me right. However I know where it starts so I am very confident I traced it out. Further testing over a electric current in my house, I picked up with out realizing it. Our dishwasher was running and the wire I found out runs under where it is located. I was looking to see if I could pick up the water pipe going to it, little did I know the pipe ran the length of a side of the house. This worked untill the washing stopped and drying cyle began.
How the rods work:
The rods are held in your hands straight out in front and held loosely so they can move. When you pick up a pipe or say water vein and you walk across it the rods will point in opposite directions (making a T with your arms held out). This should work for high current underground lines, water pipes or water veins. Specific points say an underground spring or buried copper pipes :P the rods will cross each other in an X either just after you cross or before (some people, I read, have a delay some do not). Try it out.
I also read that people can locate something called ley(sp) lines or geodesic zones basically areas of some sort of swelling energy supposedly its all interconnected I dunno. I do not know much about this as I have not tried it but I do know they work for finding my buried pipes, an electrical line that?s in heavy use in my house (likely buried ones as well) and buried PVC pipe with water in it. I also suspect I can pick up water veins as I went out around my house looking for water :P and found something I know that was not part of the drainage or leech field and it ran a good ways before I stopped tracking it.
Have fun with it and I hope it helps.
@all
Been stranded in another town, car broke down, Ignition key got stuck in the barroll, engine wouldn't start, had to hot wire my own car so I could get to help, then when I turned off the key, that was it, kaput stuck in another town. Couldn't get home, took 4 days to get parts, but it's all fixed now. :)
Wow, so many posts to catch up on.
@peter, I sent you that item you pm-ed me 4.
@ jeanna, good find that pdf item, I haven't read it yet but will do so shortly
I read a few post back, there was a chap who said he was going to pop into the NS museum, please doooo, and take your camera double please, we really need some very hi quality closeups of cells or anything relating to stubblefield work.
jim
Quote from: electricme on May 22, 2008, 07:55:12 AM
@all
Been stranded in another town, car broke down, Ignition key got stuck in the barroll, engine wouldn't start, had to hot wire my own car so I could get to help, then when I turned off the key, that was it, kaput stuck in another town. Couldn't get home, took 4 days to get parts, but it's all fixed now. :)
Wow, so many posts to catch up on.
@peter, I sent you that item you pm-ed me 4.
@ jeanna, good find that pdf item, I haven't read it yet but will do so shortly
I read a few post back, there was a chap who said he was going to pop into the NS museum, please doooo, and take your camera double please, we really need some very hi quality closeups of cells or anything relating to stubblefield work.
jim
Jim
Sorry to hear that you got stranded
I am glad it is all fixed again
:)
Quote from: Thnder on May 22, 2008, 12:24:41 AM
In summary I had buried a 2x3 set completely side by side no more than 6 inches and no less than 1 inch between any one pipe. I would think I would have noticed an anomaly of leakage with this set and is why I am leaning towards a whacked nail or connection. I hope that clarifies my leaning towards the anomaly being a whacked nail or a soldering connection. I am open to being wrong of course and I will find out once I reset them. At least now once I reset them I won?t be banging my head against the wall if it does not work lol thanks.
Thnder
You may be right ........ you may have nail out of place or a broken wire .
The fact that you got normal voltage for a while after burying the cells does seem to imply that they are not shorting out .
There still is one possible explanation of all this having to do with shorting out .
If I was to burry some cells and wanted to make sure that I didn't damage them . I would not pack the dirt down on top of them .
Loose dirt would be a pretty good insulator . With time and rain the dirt would settle and become a better conductor . In this case the shorting out might take weeks or months to reach its full potential
What ever the cause of the power loss I am sure you will figure it out .
I do agree that there is something else out there that the cells can sometimes pick up .
For me that something else is what makes them interesting .
gary
@ Steve
Hope I'm in time, Steve, when you pop into the musem, could you please take some close up photos of the actual wires stubblefield used in his equipment (if they have it on display). I have a theory which says he did'nt have any copper wires insulated as it is comonly done today, I think the copper wires of his day were bare copper wires, but, they were insulated in silk or cotton, not in varnish as is the norm today.
If you can find someone who has some clout, might be an idea to explain to them about our group, and the research we are all doing, it might open some doors where you could get hands on access to his papers etc etc.
If you carn't then thats OK also.
jim
I have posted this before but when I contacted the museum, they told me they had only his papers no devices like the earth battery. Just thought I would mention this again.
Bill
I have just been searching the www for any reference to Stubblefield relating to his papers
I came across a web site where they say the inventors name is Stubblefield, Vernon C.
Further on in SUMMARY: it says Nathan Stubblefield bla bla bla etc etc
So my question is, did Nathan ever use a non-de-plune of Vernon C. Stubblefield?
Has anyone else come across this before?
http://invention.smithsonian.org/resources/mind_repository_details.aspx?rep=102
Jim
@ bill,
yep, I had forgotten and was mixed up the same time.
It would be very interesting if someone had access to NS notes there.
I wonder if they will ever see the light of day again, if I lived there I would pop in and ask. :D
jim
@all
BREAKTHREW ;D ;D ;D
As we all know, getting access to NS records has been very difficult.
I spent just about all day yesterday trawling the net, looking for more NS stuff, and in the end I got a breakthrew. ;)
I came across one site and I emailed them about NS, they replied giving me permission to access NS trunk which has been microfilmed.
I have replied thanking them and have requested how to access the information, if I cannot access it from my place, then I have made recommendations to allow another person to access it on my behalf, and have pointed them to this forum.
I have pm joe and bill, sent them both the email with the invite, I got back, and if bill is able to go instead of me, he is most welcome. Take your camera bill, :)
If bill carn't go, is there anyone else prepared to fill in, or even a couple of people, so items-info can be varified.
OK I'm pritty excited about this, wish I was in USA to take a baupeep for myself.
As this is important stuff, and Joe is forum moderator, I'm turning this baby over to him to delegate.
jim
Quote from: electricme on May 24, 2008, 12:03:19 AM
@all
BREAKTHREW ;D ;D ;D
As we all know, getting access to NS records has been very difficult.
I spent just about all day yesterday trawling the net, looking for more NS stuff, and in the end I got a breakthrew. ;)
I came across one site and I emailed them about NS, they replied giving me permission to access NS trunk which has been microfilmed.
I have replied thanking them and have requested how to access the information, if I cannot access it from my place, then I have made recommendations to allow another person to access it on my behalf, and have pointed them to this forum.
I have pm joe and bill, sent them both the email with the invite, I got back, and if bill is able to go instead of me, he is most welcome. Take your camera bill, :)
If bill carn't go, is there anyone else prepared to fill in, or even a couple of people, so items-info can be varified.
OK I'm pritty excited about this, wish I was in USA to take a baupeep for myself.
As this is important stuff, and Joe is forum moderator, I'm turning this baby over to him to delegate.
jim
Congradulations Jim
this could be a very big step in the right direction
gary
Everyone sorry for the late reply. I'm still on vacation and only have limited access to the internet. Yes I did get to the museum and had somewhat limited success; as Bill stated, there is no earth battery's or even any of his wireless telephone inventions there. (This is consistent with what I previously read that NS destroyed most of his inventions before his death ). There was some equipment of his but limited to very few items. I asked if they had any more of his stuff tucked away but was told "not that they were aware of".
I see the reference above to a trunk, is this the trunk that is in the museum? There was a trunk of NS's there but I did not attempt to open it (I assumed it was empty but I may have been mistaken). Of the items that were there (I have some photos I will post ), some photos were not so great since they were in a display case and it messed up with the camera's focus.
One photo was of a "telegraph sounder and telegraph key", another of a "vibrating telephone", and a "telephone ringer" that was used by him. There were 2 photos of some wire, one "coil wire, wound and insulated" from 1881 and another "early transformer box and coil" with green insulated wire (or so it looks). I could not tell what was used for insulation and I did not ask to get inside the case
(they may or may not have allowed it) but not sure I could have told what the insulation was in any event. All of his patents (documents) were there and other people donated used radio equipment but none belonged to NS or was from that period. I took some photos of some of the documents and need to go through them to see if there is anything else of benefit. Since I can only post photos of 50K in size I will post the photos of the wire and I will have to post individually. Next week I will be going back home and if there is more there I could possibly drop by again but I would need to make sure there is something in that trunk if that is what you are referring to?
Thanks
Steve
Descritpion read "coil wire, wound and insulated , used in 1881"
"early transformer box and coil"
"telegraph sounder and telegraph key used by NS"
"vibrating telephone"...looks like a crank to an early telephone to me but not sure....
"telephone ringer".
This was all that was in the display case for his inventions or items that he used....
interesting photo I had not seen before, no doubt part of his telephone system...
If anyone can try to get this it would be worthwhile as it had some good information about NS and the Earth battery. There was a copy at the museum but I only got some photos of some relevant pages; If not, I will try to go through it later and post what I find. . Magazine was called "Borderlands, volume LI, Number 3: from the third quarter of 1995.
FOUND IT!
Here is a website where you all can find your soil types and even print a map of your area. It also defines what the letters mean for you so you know if its eroded, etc. Go to:
http://websoilsurvey.nrcs.usda.gov/app/
Follow the directions it will send you to:
http://websoilsurvey.nrcs.usda.gov/app/WebSoilSurvey.aspx
then you just select your county, or address and state, then you can define the AOI (will put a rectangle around your area and show your soils by pushing Identify available soils. Just follow the instructions on the first page and you'll be able to save your map with descriptions on a pdf.
Good Luck! Hope this helps.
Wow i feel stupid now.. thanks GeoscienceStudent
My Gf worked at a local nrcs for years doing this stuff and it never clicked. Good catch
Joe
@ Steve
You have done us all proud man, take a bou.
All those nice photos, wish I had been there with you. ;)
The photos with the blue horse shoes, they look like something we used in the telephone wind the handle days here in Aussie, in the 1960s. We had them in the wall hanging phones and the old Bakelite ones as well. (got one on my kitchen floor to stubb my toes lol)
There is a photo that looks like a old morse keyer, I think it is a sounder.
Loved the rolls of wire, at least there is something physical of Stubblefields experimenting days.
Well done Steve ;D
jim
@ Jim,
Thanks, I wish I had looked in the trunk - I feel dumb about that, geeze. I'll see what I can find out about it in the meantime and if it's worth a trip back to look I'll see what I can do.
Rgs
Steve
@ steve,
did you get my PM
jim
Hi Jim, no I did not get anything from you.
Rgs,
-- Steve
Quote from: resonanceman on May 22, 2008, 02:25:33 PM
Thnder
You may be right ........ you may have nail out of place or a broken wire .
The fact that you got normal voltage for a while after burying the cells does seem to imply that they are not shorting out .
There still is one possible explanation of all this having to do with shorting out .
If I was to burry some cells and wanted to make sure that I didn't damage them . I would not pack the dirt down on top of them .
Loose dirt would be a pretty good insulator . With time and rain the dirt would settle and become a better conductor . In this case the shorting out might take weeks or months to reach its full potential
What ever the cause of the power loss I am sure you will figure it out .
I do agree that there is something else out there that the cells can sometimes pick up .
For me that something else is what makes them interesting .
gary
Gary just an update, I went out and played with my pipes and nails. It would seem I did have a few loose connections; however it would also seem that there is indeed leakage. I have noted a steady decline in voltage. I do not have exact measurements but I watched my 3 rows of six in parallel drop from around 2.5 volts to 1.8 the last couple days, always lower if they are wet to.
It would seem the exterior of the pipes have to be insulated in some manner. I went out and played with each pipe individually, reset a few nails, redid a few wires then set them back in the ground once satisfied. I then tested my results and observed I had achieved nothing significant, my voltage I had gained from ?fixing them? was gone. They steadily declined back to the previous low level. At this point pulled the row out and laid them on the ground with my leads still attached and watched the voltage rise. Further I placed some pieces of cloth (bed Sheets cut up) under them and watched the voltage rise more. I concluded that the exteriors should be insulated. I had some plastic, sticky on one side and wrapped them then reset them and joined them back up to the rest. I had a gain of voltage that seemed steady for the one row. Not as high when it was out of the ground the row I am sure needs to be moved and the rest of my pipes insulated.
This brings me to a patent I read sometime after our conversation and what clued me in with the help of your post. Now I understand what you and the patent was getting at :P
No 329,724 GF Dieckmann he states that the couples (I assume pos and neg) must be placed close together in a line while the rest in the circuit in the same line should be farther apart. Thus the Six feet spacing you referenced somewhere else. In this case 6 feet between cells of one positive and one negative.
So I guess what it boils down to is insulating the outside or spacing them far apart increases the resistance of one cell to the other cells thus allowing a more effective series or parallel circuit. People with small land to play with would have to use the exterior insulation to increase a cells resistance to others. Probably a good bet to tape or paint the outside and use your wick idea for the top if they bury them completely as I do. I had not noticed this when conducting my prior experiments this may have occurred exactly as it did this last time however this last time I was looking for it :P
For the Stubblefield coil experiment I think my observations here seem to imply the exterior cloth insulation is a good idea if you plan to use them in series or parallel or even individually. Who knows how they would react to grounding rods outside the house.
Thanks again gary, had you not suggested the leakage I probably would have given up and called it quits.
Quote from: Thnder on June 03, 2008, 12:57:55 AM
So I guess what it boils down to is insulating the outside or spacing them far apart increases the resistance of one cell to the other cells thus allowing a more effective series or parallel circuit. People with small land to play with would have to use the exterior insulation to increase a cells resistance to others. Probably a good bet to tape or paint the outside and use your wick idea for the top if they bury them completely as I do. I had not noticed this when conducting my prior experiments this may have occurred exactly as it did this last time however this last time I was looking for it :P
For the Stubblefield coil experiment I think my observations here seem to imply the exterior cloth insulation is a good idea if you plan to use them in series or parallel or even individually. Who knows how they would react to grounding rods outside the house.
Thanks again gary, had you not suggested the leakage I probably would have given up and called it quits.
Thnder
I am glad that I could be of help in some small way .
As far as calling it quits ........ that is not allowed ............didn't you get the memo?
;D
gary
@ All,
As we all know, replicating a previous invention is difficult to do at the best of times, especially if one hasn't got all the information one needs at the time, that is one of the reasons I still haven't made a coil yet, but I am not resting on my laurels.
I do know of a couple of people who have or are now stuck in a rut, (me too) it seems to them it's getting a bit too much (lack of results), don't worry, it's all a part of researching and building, as one wise person said in a long way back post, you learn not only by success, but by the mistakes you and others make. So don't despair.
All these past months, I have been quietly reaching out in the aether lol, contacting people, and this morning have just found out there is a second roll of microfilm on Nathan Stubblfield, notes, info etc etc, and a copy is on its way to me. :-X
My information is, it seems when the person who made both rolls, didn't make exact duplications of the 1st roll, although some info on the 1st roll appears on the second roll, some info is rather blurry, sooooo there might be some more new "stuff" to read up on. :-\
I am hoping, there will be circuit diagrams or at least notes on the way NS connected up his cells (wishful thinking) and also if there are photos!!!
I'll keep you all posted on what takes place when I take a look-see at it all. :P
jim
@ steve, I got your PM, Ta
@ hello All
The Nathan Stubblefield photocopies have arrived, yippee.
My thanks publically to the people who arranged this at Margaret I. King Library.
OK, everything that came were ALL laser copies of originals, photos are lasered no colour, B&W only, the photos seen in previous posts are much better, I suggest we stick with them.
Some information is easy to read, others very difficult.
Info ranges from patients, hand written notes, typed notes and newspaper clippings, and drawings photos.
A good deal of this I have not seen before.
All up there are 67 x A4 size pages to troll through.
I have noticed immediately, on InfoKat Page 1 of 3, 2 of 3, 3 of 3, 3 of 3 is not there, however this is just a tail end, something like you get when an extra page goes through with nothing relevant on it, P 1 and 2 have all the detail.
OK Jeanna, there is one you will drool over (as we all will do) it has a stubblefield coil in various stages of it being made, it is very similar to everyones coils, seems to me everyone is on the right track making their own.
I will scan it and see how I go posting it here.
OK I will start posting from time to time with info.
I will be scanning this lot then burn to a CD.
jim
@ All
Photo of Stubblefield coils, as examples of the different stages of winding them.
Left to right 1 is the bare iron former, with two wooden ends, next I think should be item 4, showing the "primary" 2 being next stage and 4 the finished coil.
Now 5 is a stubby squat coil, at a guess, the same amount of winding wire may have been used for it, but all this is guess work from me.
Any opinions anyone?
Do we know this is at different stages of winding or possibly just different coil experiments at different levels of completion?
@ storrie
I wouldn't know, I can only surmise, if I said they were at different stages of an experiment, I think that would be incorrect
As the displayed items are as a display, it suggests to me the intension is to show the different stages of the cells construction.
Aside from the above photo, as I mentioned previously, the material I have has been made on a laser printer, some of it is very old, some photos are in a bad state, tonight I have seen the perfect example privately emailed to me, so if anyone has better copies than the ones I have, please post them as better copies are able to tell us more info.
jim
Finally started my replication and took some photos. The cotton tubing is from wickstore. 1/16"
http://www.wickstore.com/wetbulbwick.html
Copper is 2mm 12M
Bare Galvanized wire 1.9mm 12M
I used a cotton shirt for the insulation of the and each layer of winding and made careful there were no shorts between the galvanized wire. The wire ended up at the other end of the coil than what I started. Shouldn't make a difference though. If I don't get any results from this, I can just splice on more wire and wind probably another 15-20M.
Will start testing the coil dry and wet tonight.
I added another nut on the inner part of the coil and also a washer so I could tighten down good the wood end since I would use it for turning. The other end fixes itself. I attached the wires to the coil first and then pulled as tight as possible by holding onto the wooden ends of the coil and turning and keeping the wires tight at the same time. The other ends of the wire were 12M away attached to a wall about 1M separated so I could vary where I stood to make sure each wire was equally tight. I wanted to make sure the coil was as tight as possible to increase the voltaic response. Definitely want to motorize this for next test!! I have a slow speed drill press that I think will work good.
The rest?
Did some testing using a extech 22-816 rms multimeter
All 4 wires open, coil dry
.801 volts dc (positive probe on copper, negative on iron (same end))
0mA
Immersed in spring water
.942
0mA
Not sure if those are good results. Will test tomorrow to see if it's enough to drive the nc reed switch. If I need to add more to the primary, I have more room and can just splice in more wire.
Man, that is a beautiful coil you have there!!! The vdc seems about right but you should have a decent amount of amps I would think. Please don't take offense to this but, have you checked to make sure you have not blown a fuse on the mA part of your meter? I was reading "0" mA's on several tests before I finally figured out that I had blown one of the 2 fuses on my meter. Later, I again read "0" and it still took me a while to test the fuse and found out I had blown yet another one.
Maybe try testing a "AA" battery for mA's just to see? You have a lot of mass there and it is wound very nicely, I would suspect that you should see at least 20-30 mA's wet, possibly a lot more.
I read in another topic that the mA fuses on our meters are very prone to blowing at the slightest provocation. It might have blown when you first tested it if it was set too low. Trust me, it does not take much.
I hope this helps.
Bill
@ Storre
Nice coil, nice tight turns, should be a bonza coil when finished.
Bet the fingers feel a bit saw after winding that lot :D
I like the wooden former ends, same as stubblefields.
Storry, you havent mentioned how you made the wooden ends, but I believe a hole saw is a suitable tool to do this, for those who don't know what that contraption is, it is a circular saw used to cut holes in a door before mounting door locks etc.
Nice sink also, well done storre
Jim
Quote from: Pirate88179 on June 18, 2008, 12:12:08 AM
Man, that is a beautiful coil you have there!!! The vdc seems about right but you should have a decent amount of amps I would think. Please don't take offense to this but, have you checked to make sure you have not blown a fuse on the mA part of your meter? I was reading "0" mA's on several tests before I finally figured out that I had blown one of the 2 fuses on my meter. Later, I again read "0" and it still took me a while to test the fuse and found out I had blown yet another one.
Maybe try testing a "AA" battery for mA's just to see? You have a lot of mass there and it is wound very nicely, I would suspect that you should see at least 20-30 mA's wet, possibly a lot more.
I read in another topic that the mA fuses on our meters are very prone to blowing at the slightest provocation. It might have blown when you first tested it if it was set too low. Trust me, it does not take much.
I hope this helps.
Bill
I would defininatley check the fuse, as bill mentions the fuse can easily be blown ive done this many times myself.
well spotted bill :)
Chad.
Quote from: Pirate88179 on June 18, 2008, 12:12:08 AM
Man, that is a beautiful coil you have there!!! The vdc seems about right but you should have a decent amount of amps I would think. Please don't take offense to this but, have you checked to make sure you have not blown a fuse on the mA part of your meter? I was reading "0" mA's on several tests before I finally figured out that I had blown one of the 2 fuses on my meter. Later, I again read "0" and it still took me a while to test the fuse and found out I had blown yet another one.
Maybe try testing a "AA" battery for mA's just to see? You have a lot of mass there and it is wound very nicely, I would suspect that you should see at least 20-30 mA's wet, possibly a lot more.
I read in another topic that the mA fuses on our meters are very prone to blowing at the slightest provocation. It might have blown when you first tested it if it was set too low. Trust me, it does not take much.
I hope this helps.
Bill
Thanks Bill and I was hoping you were right on that fuse but my meter only has a 500ma and 10A fuse and both are ok. Doesn't seem to have a separate fuse for mA and I tested some batteries and it reads correctly. Will test the coil more but if I don't get anything I will splice on more wire instead of rewinding with longer wire. Shouldn't make a difference if I do a nice mend with some solder right? Winding this is a hand and arm killer! I can see several ways to motorize it. I have a vertical drill with slow speed that I could rig up for winding. Today I will see if it has any effect on a compass when I short it out using the opposite ends. So copper to iron but using there opposite ends.
Quote from: electricme on June 18, 2008, 02:30:44 AM
@ Storre
Nice coil, nice tight turns, should be a bonza coil when finished.
Bet the fingers feel a bit saw after winding that lot :D
I like the wooden former ends, same as stubblefields.
Storry, you havent mentioned how you made the wooden ends, but I believe a hole saw is a suitable tool to do this, for those who don't know what that contraption is, it is a circular saw used to cut holes in a door before mounting door locks etc.
Nice sink also, well done storre
Jim
Yes I made them with a hole saw. I live in a granite and bamboo house and we use all size hole saws to cut the bamboo. My idea with the cool was to duplicate the patent as close as possible and the form ends I would use to hold onto to wind the coil. It was the best way other than using a motor, to make sure the coil was wound very tightly. I used all my wait throughout all the turning and the coil as is tight as it can be. I recall reading somewhere that it should be a tight cool so the distances between the two metals is close as possible. Also the cotton tubing is very tight on the copper.
Does anyone know of a good wire stripper. I need to strip about 20M of 12 gauge copper. I guess the standard type for stripping wire ends will not work for the whole length.
Today the coil is still wet but not submersed and is reading .635V (it gradually climbs if I leave the meter connected) and .00mA by reading the copper and galvanized from one side or opposite sides but with no connection between the copper and galvanized wire ends.
@ Storre
A stone and bamboo house??? now that is different, I have seen bamboo used as water pipe when I lived in New Guinea, I have even lived in a paper house, it's true, thats a long time ago.
OK how to remove varnish off copper, back in my days when I wound coils for rewinding motors, we had to burn the burntout copper wires to get scrap value back in aussie.
Take 20M of copper, put in a galvinised rubbish bin, throw in a half cup of petrol and light it. That removes the varnish. (smokes a lot, stinks a lot also, neighbours panic a lot too:) Take out the bare copper, blackened with soot, and wash it in soap and water.
But the cupper might now be brittle, or too soft to use it.
We had to use an oxy welding flame to melt the ends of the copper to steel 240v leads, so you never know, it might work.
Anyone else got a better way to do this, other than setting fire to the joint? ;D
Jim
Quote from: electricme on June 18, 2008, 09:18:25 AM
@ Storre
A stone and bamboo house??? now that is different, I have seen bamboo used as water pipe when I lived in New Guinea, I have even lived in a paper house, it's true, thats a long time ago.
OK how to remove varnish off copper, back in my days when I wound coils for rewinding motors, we had to burn the burntout copper wires to get scrap value back in aussie.
Take 20M of copper, put in a galvinised rubbish bin, throw in a half cup of petrol and light it. That removes the varnish. (smokes a lot, stinks a lot also, neighbours panic a lot too:) Take out the bare copper, blackened with soot, and wash it in soap and water.
But the cupper might now be brittle, or too soft to use it.
We had to use an oxy welding flame to melt the ends of the copper to steel 240v leads, so you never know, it might work.
Anyone else got a better way to do this, other than setting fire to the joint? ;D
Jim
Yes and with half meter thick walls, it's like sleeping in a cave!
It's not varnish I want to get off the copper but the plastic insulation. Maybe I can buy it already bare but don't think so. For this coil I used a pocket knife which was almost as fun as winding the coil and just as hard on the hand :-/
I was thinking of some kind of wire stripped that would maybe cut it length wise so I could just pull it off. Like you can do with softer insulation buy just getting it started and then pulling back.
@ storre
I just thought of the answer, but it will mean some drilling and tapping a screw hole, if you are up to it, here's a method on how to strip long lengths of insulated copper wire.
Grab a bit of steel, 1" square about 2 inches long, mount it vertically in your drill press, drill a hole all the way through to the other end, the diameter of the hole to be just slightly bigger than the size of the insulated wire.
Counter sink each end of the new hole you just made.
Take the steel billet out of the drill vice, mount it so you can now drill another hole say about half an inch from one end on the billit, make the size to suit a long threaded small screw, but the next size drill bit smaller.
Drill downwards to intercept the previous hole.
Tap a thread, same size of the screw
Take the long screw, wind the nut all the way to the top of the head of the screw.
Grind or file the end of the long screw on a angle and flat (like a very very sharp screwdriver), screw this long screw into the hole you just tapped, look into the hole the wire will be fed through, and adjust the height so it will protrude only to cut into the insulation, not the copper wire. Lock the screw into position with the nut you threaded all the way up the top of the screw.
Mount the whole jig in a vice, poke the wire into the other end until it comes out the other side, now you can pull and strip the wire with ease.
Hope this helps
Jim
@ all A Wire Insulation Stripper Jig
@all here is a jig to make to wind a NS Coil
you got to be able to cut steel and use a stick welder, if you want to power it by a motor, just get a battery powered drill, take the winding handle off and put the drill chuck on the handle shaft. The idea is, there is a sliding rear end, which has a hollow pipe the bolt end goes into, the other end of the bolt fits a socket which goes on a mating extender bar, which goes through a loose fitting pipe. The whole lot can be bolted to the top of a table, or make a wood table from scrap and use that, or use G clamps to hold the jig down.
jim
@all
This probably dosent fit in here but just to let any doubters think the above 2 items wont work, here is one of my projects I took on by myself. The heaviest 8" telescope in Australia, weigning in at 2 tons, Took about 1-2 years to build. 1 locomotive drive wheel, someones fence, bulldozer clutch plates. It can be checked out at www.yowee.8m.com/dadyjim.html one of my hats is amature astronomy :D
Quote from: electricme on June 19, 2008, 02:42:57 AM
@all
This probably dosent fit in here but just to let any doubters think the above 2 items wont work, here is one of my projects I took on by myself. The heaviest 8" telescope in Australia, weigning in at 2 tons, Took about 1-2 years to build. 1 locomotive drive wheel, someones fence, bulldozer clutch plates. It can be checked out at www.yowee.8m.com/dadyjim.html one of my hats is amature astronomy :D
Great suggestions. I simplified your wire stripping idea. Just took a block of hard wood, drilled it like you said. Didn't bother counter sinking the holes. Drilled a side hole and put in a wood screw that was already pointed. Worked great! I fed in the beginning of the wire then fasted the wire to something fixed and then pulled the block of wood down the wire as it cut it down the middle. Even straightened out the kinks in the wire :) Thanks! Now I will add another 12M or so onto my coil and see if I get any more POWER! :D
Quote from: Pirate88179 on November 20, 2007, 01:03:00 PM
@ Hans:
This makes it sound like he was seeding his "hotspot" areas with some dangerous chemicals. Or, could it have been the decomposition of his copper that Stefan warned us about in an earlier thread? He was concerned we would poision our gardens. Great research Hans, but I don't really like this news.
Bill
I don't remember these soil treatment methods being mentioned in 'Lost Science' by Jerry Vassilitos?
It would be interesting to read more of these comments from relatives, if available. Doesn't Pitchblende have a radioactive component, by the way?
silverfish
Quote from: silverfish on June 19, 2008, 01:14:34 PM
I don't remember these soil treatment methods being mentioned in 'Lost Science' by Jerry Vassilitos?
It would be interesting to read more of these comments from relatives, if available. Doesn't Pitchblende have a radioactive component, by the way?
silverfish
Pitchblende IS radioactive. Today's name for pitchblende is Uraninite See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uraninite
Hans von Lieven
silverfish:
If you read on a few posts past the one you copied here, you will see that Hans identifies pitchblende as uranium ore.
Madame Curie used pitchblende to isolate and extract radium, for which she is famous for today. Later, Hans posted a photo of a device lighting an incandescent bulb using nothing but a tiny amount of radioactive material. We have, I hope, progressed far beyond this type of research in our efforts. It is just something that came up early on about his kid (Nathan Stubblefield's) dying from eating poison/contaminated vegetables from the garden. (Potato) His wife left him after that and ...anyway....it was just part of the history that turned up. Hope this helps.
Bill
@storre
Good jig there, it works like a dream ;D
Had a few hickups with the NS pages, scanner not to my liking, gota figure it out.
Will be making progress next week I hope.
jim
@ storrie
How you going with your new NS coil, any progress?
jim
Quote from: electricme on July 02, 2008, 08:50:53 AM
@ storrie
How you going with your new NS coil, any progress?
jim
I wound it with an additional 12M of 2.1MM wire but still not getting any useable mA and about .7V. Really though, I need to burry it. As an opportune test, I have some guys building a big 2M deep fish pond so when they get to the bottom I will bury it there just to see if depth makes a difference.
@storrie
Hmmm, this sounds interresting, the part about how deep you intend to bury the coil, I'm very interrested to know the outcome.
I'm in the middle of a huge slack attack right now, when winter thaws me out it will be time for a big tidy up so I can get to my steel working bench to make some jigs to wind a NS coil.
@ bill
I came across a big triple spring re-verb unit, it has the driver coil and a pickup coil, so this time I will see if I can modify it to give any indication of what is coming out of my copper rod setup in the back yard.
Snippit of info, petrol is $1:75 a litre in my neck of the woods, grrrrrr.
@Hans
Going to make a start today on my NS diary stuff. (deep scanning), you should be getting some pages very shortly.
@all
About a month ago, I sent a email to the people who kindly sent me the NS stuff, asking about copyrite etc, haven't heard back from them yet. As most of what I have is already in the public domain I may post only rough copies here so you can see the quality I have to work with.
Hans and I have negated the resting place of the NS info, as he is willing to make it available on his web site, with links straight to it
Thanks Hans
hooroo
jim
@ Jim:
That's a great idea with the reverb unit. I have one in my amp and it never crossed my mind to do that. This should be interesting.
@storre:
I still find it hard to believe you are not getting any mA's from your coil. It looked good to me...wound very well, insulated, etc. Just wetting the cotton insulation should register some decent mA's. IF you used iron wire, and IF you used an iron core, and IF you used copper wire, this should produce mA's. I know you did you these things as you said you did. Did you test the wire and the core with a magnet to show iron content? That's the only thing I can think of is if something were mislabeled as I ran into searching for iron wire. I tested some that was labeled "iron wire" but the magnet said no. Same thing with "iron" re-bar. The magnet showed very little iron content. That is why I went with the iron spike as I was testing many different things in the store with my neo. That showed the best (actually very good) results as I could hardly pull the magnet off of it. What I am trying to say here is that, if your meter is ok, and you said you checked it, then the only other things it could be is either a short of some kind, (which I know you most likely did a continuity test) or poor iron content in the wire and/or the core. Even coils much smaller and less dense than yours were putting out like 10-20 mA's. I wish my coils looked as good as yours does. Oh well, you will figure it out.
My guess about the depth of the coil in relation to the ground level would be that it will not change anything. This is just a guess on my part, I have done no experiments relating to this. It will be good to see what happens, then we will know. Best of luck to you.
Bill
@bill:
I just checked them with a magnet. Zinc coated iron and iron (possibly galvanized also) core. The both tested out with the magnet so I'm sure they are iron.
Now to where your PI skills really shine ;) I tested continuity and at first it looked fine. I was reading millions of ohms when I tested copper against iron wire but then all of a sudden (still don't know how) the meter started reading practically 0 ohms when testing across copper to iron and even testing with the bolt against either wire. It's completely shorted out and the only thing I can think happened is the individual cotton overlays that go between each layer, did not close completely. Still doesn't explain though how the copper is shorting out since it's completely inclosed in the tubing.
Well I had the idea to use the cotton tubing on the iron wire also to avoid the headache of placing the cotton between the layers so I'm going to rewind this thing and try to do it on a bench so I don't kill my hands again! I know in the patent he says it's preferable not to use tubing on the iron but I think it's not any more insulation than the cotton between the layers which I will not use. At least I will not have any shorting problems. I just tested again and it's showing only .23V. I've been testing this coil daily and it's always showed between .60-.70V so something definitely shorted it this morning. Seems like the damn thing shorted out right in the middle of my continuity tests. So strange!
Now testing again it's showing 10M ohms where it should be! When I connect the meter and switch to VDC I get about .23V Then, without removing the test leads, I switch to ohms and it reads about 14K ohms. If I just remove one of the test leads and immediately reconnect, it reads 1M ohms. If I disconnect and remove again, it shows 10M. If I think switch to VDC and then back to ohms without removing the test leads then it goes back to about 13K ohms.
Is this some meter weirdness or something I don't understand about using it? The meter is a Extech True RMS MM 22-816.
@ storrie
A shorted turns tester would be the instrument of choice to use to find shorted turns, next best thing would be to get a add on kit for the multimeter that can read really low ohms.
jim
Quote from: electricme on July 03, 2008, 09:16:36 AM
@ storrie
A shorted turns tester would be the instrument of choice to use to find shorted turns, next best thing would be to get a add on kit for the multimeter that can read really low ohms.
jim
Thanks Jim. I will get one of those. Any suggestions on a good internet store in the US that sells them?
@ storre:
Well, I'm no expert with a meter but I would have to agree that it appears you have a short, or two, or more. Why the ohms change I have no idea unless, multiple shorts along the length of the coil with some of them being intermittent. In other words, if you have a short halfway down the coil and another 3/4 of the way down the coil, and you test....then the short halfway down the coil suddenly is no longer shorted, I believe the ohms would then read differently for the short 3/4 of the way down the coil. Or something like that.
I agree that as long as one wire is insulated from the core and the other wire, I can't see how it would make a difference. On my coil, in effect, both wires are insulated from each other with the cotton string, and insulated from the core with cotton cloth, also cloth between layers.
When you get your shorts fixed, you will see decent mA's, I truly believe this.
Bill
Hi all :) - you've got a newbie here
i'm just a mr nobody who messes about in this crazy world in the free energy gig - lets do it! - and I must say how humble i feel to be here with such great minds.
ive done a few earth probes myself and found pretty much the same using just a (approx) 4mm diam copper wire and a 9inch piece of corroded iron, a stainless steel knife and more ive forgotten!
lol but have found similar results - .74 - .95 dc and oddly 1.1 ac always using digital tester and yes polar orientation affects results too (I'm southern uk)
tried to rig them in series using diodes but i think my lack of knowledge is maybe doing something wrong!
oh anybody done a scope probe on the frequency? might be useful electric for something else? especially if it were amplified
but there definately seems to be a pattern the world over with our data - dare i say it so we all seem to be tapping the same wave - thats good useful data perhaps?
hope my ramblings make some sense to people hehe!
@ Anothertruthfinder (newbie lol)
Hello and welcome aboard :D
Good to have someone from the UK in this group now, dont be shy asking for advice or sharing ideas, tell us what you are doing, something you have done may help others.
Loved the bit of using a good old stainless steel knife and 4mm copper wire as electrodes, prity good idea.
Must do this sometime to.
I have about 5meters of 13mm copper wire which was on a buss bar just lying about, didnt even think to use it.
Word of causion using scopes, just make sure you have no earth leakages from anything around the house cause it will give falce readings, the cro earth alters it. Seems not to occur with battery powered cros.
@all
Yesterday afternoon, I moved my rod setup from the back yard to just in under the house, didnt seem to make any difference to readings, but I noticed the bottom of my 13mm X 3ft long copper pipe it was corroded at the bottom for the first 6" and it was eaten away in some places, looks blue in colour.
My ally pipe 3' x 1" has no corrosion
Snippert of info, just discovered the gas flexable hose has a stainless steel protecting outer sheath, (like the braid on a TV coax) checked it with a magnet, no iron in it at all, going to use this in my water doover test jar. ;D
jim
thanks for the welcome electricme :)
i find it strange we all pretty much get the same efftects all around the world, shame we cant up the voltage somehow - some factor is missing in our experiments i believe
but point taken about the scope - cheers
ive done the water jar one as well, that got me about .89 volts dc using various electrodes, in the end i put a standard piece of copper wire and some aluminium foil hooked over the jar - which makes me think, is the ac on ground tests just current leak from pylons or our homes cause the earth must be saturated with leakage in this day and age, or something different - electric at a frequency of nature's notation and my digital meter interpreting it as ac......hmmm
sing the right note - smash the wineglass, get the right antenna - recieve the right wave, talk to nature in the right way - it talks back (goodness knows what language though! lol)
the earth's got unknown amounts of power to offer and it seems utter craziness we inefficiently tap its resources and inefficiently use them and the wrong resources we use
man has always been at the forefront of technology when it comes to killing himself - and we live in a supposed sane world?
ATF
i seen someone winding a bifilar coil with iron and copper, nice work :)
i havent been around much ive been sticking my nose in the bedini systems as i think i might have an edge there however i will say this after you try your bifilar coil out i recommend making 2 seperate coils and trying that as well. a known problem with bifilar or 2 wire coils is that if the current is allowed to flow in one wire it will create an opposite flow in the other. this will make for some interesting experiments with trying the copper as its own filiment, IE one end of the copper wire is positive and the other negative with the iron doing the same (all be it opposite direction) if hanz is around he could possibly elabrate on this as i think i saw him watching over the bedini sites too :) altho the opposite flow in the secondary wire is usually with copper and its induced from a magnetic field perspective. this may indeed have some interesting results with the iron wire :)
@Artic Knight
Welcome,
Thanks for your input, I must read your post again tomorrow when the old grey matter is fresh as a daisy, it seemed a bit confusing tonight to me.
@ all
Update on NS papers, I spoke to Hans today and by now he should have a complete copy of what I have, all 69 pages.
This weekend I hope to rescan in high resolutions and see what I can do about making them more easy to read.
@ Storrie
I apologise for not answering your question relating to Shorted Turns Testers, you might be able to pick up one on EBay or one of the electronic shops in your neck of the woods, other than that I dont know. Another instrument that could help us is a "megger" which is a meter device that measures the breakdown of insulation around a conductor. There are two types, the ones one winds up with a handle, the other type one pushes a button.
Warning using meggers, dont drop the leads if a smartie winds the handle, one gets a fair size wallop if they do, a bit like the chicken handles that a electric shock game uses.
jim
Jim
Hello everyone, I'm a newbie too. I at first for thirty years tinkered with the hho concepts. After my last and final blast I swore it off till the tech. makes it safe. I saw Wild Bill,s You Tube video and saw something that I could try right away. I buried two copper plates hooked to a half inch twenty foot cable insulated. Oh yea I dug the hole for the copper plates till I hit the water table salt tidal. twenty feet soul th I put an aluminum three foot pipe two foot in the ground. I got about 3/4 volt dc.I could not get an LED to light. I took two strands of #10 insulated wire and ran it over a trellis. At one end I hooked up a green Led. The otherends went to the ends of the half inch copper between the plates and the pipe. I took a jumper from the aluminum to one wire to one side of the led. the returning #10 wire was hooked to the neg. side of a stone cold dead 12 volt alarm battery. The 1/2 inch cable from the copper plates went two the pos. side of the battery.The green LED lit and has been burning since. I also Bought a carbon rod and a magnesium rod only ten foot apart smaller wire same result except that has six red LED lights hooked up parallel also a circuit I found that says how to make a three volt LED work off of a 1.5 volt battery. These have been burning since April. Unlike other parts of the US we are in a drought But last week lightning storms are starting to show up. I look at the light in the morning And it got really bright it then returned to its regular glow Then a large lightning strike happened. the LED blinked bright twice and then two lightning strikes. The LED seemed to pick up the energy moving toward the place where it happens. I just had to witness to you all that Good things are coming and it just around the bend. Cheers Bob!
Bob:
I am WildBill on Youtube. I am glad to see you here. Interesting effects with the lighting. I am still working back and forth between the electrodes and the coils. I get more usable output from the electrodes at this point. I like the carbon rod approach. I am glad you got leds to light. It is fun isn't it? When my led was lit up I loved that it was running off the earth with no other power source, and would do so for as long as I wanted. Welcome to our group here. Please keep up your experiments and keep us posted. There is a lot of knowledge here and if you read all of the back posts (good luck) you can see where we are at now.
We have another related topic in the Stubblefield coils and speculations topic. These experiments are mostly dealing with the coil approach as well and there is a lot of information there too.
Anyway, I am glad to see you here. Welcome.
Bill (Pirate 88179 and 0WildBill0)
Bill
@ Hans, Joe Bill and Jeanna
I have sent you all the NS stuff, better recheck your emails, I might have filled them up chokablok ;D
@bob
hello from the land down under, nice to have you along as Bill says
Happy to know someone is getting a positave responce from their setups, just dont hang onto the key like franklind ina storm he he.
Its a lota fun the NS stuff.
jim
@Jim
Thanks bud just got it a few days back.
@all Nice ideas in the other thread i just got through reading and tossed up my coler patent and pics i have more here somewhere but if nazi shit offends ya dont take it to heart the material is just ridden with it because of the timeframe and location of mr coler .. I want to say riche of the black sun had some good info too i googled it.
Joe
Joe:
I think we can handle the Nazi stuff. This was the environment that this guy worked in and we can't change history. Hopefully, everyone will look past that and stick to the science of it.
Look at Von Braun, for example. He had many ties to the Nazi's, some say more than was originally reported. All I know is that without him, we would have never got to the moon. In that environment at the time, you either went along, or were shot or sent to a camp.
Otherwise, if people can't handle it, maybe you could e-mail to a few of us that can. Great finds!
Bill
Yea i agree. I just didnt want to offend any folks. Thats a touchy subject for some and i completely understand. Bad time in our worlds history genocide and all.
Joe
Hi all,
I just sprinted over localjoe's thread and saw many pictures of your Stubblefield coil and I see a big problem with your replications so far.
Your coils are wound much too loosely, you must have the ferrous wire wound as close to the copper wire as possible. You will not get a good magnetic medium transfers if not. The field here is not big. Remember that those old folks may have been backwards for our time but they were proud in what they were doing and would never wind a coil in a disorderly fashion.
At page 32 now and will report any more observations.
Take care,
Michel
@ all
Boy it's been cold downunder, coldest on record for ages :D
I remembered some while back a couple of us spoke about shorted turns testers, I found a reall CHEAP one, at http://www.electro-tech-online.com/electronic-projects/14619-project-transformer-checker.html
Heres the circuit for those who carn't wait.
How it works, It seems you need to energise the tranny, then when it is disconnected, a pulse of EMF is detected by the neon, if there is a internal short in the output winding, any energy is wasted at the short, so the neon dosent light.
jim
ps I havent been checking for a while, I was relying on the joggers I get notifying me of anyones postings.
edit: removed as it was off-topic.
edit: removed as it was off-topic.
Very interesting. Have you tried non-insulated wire? I'm thinking of attempting something similar using
bare copper wire just to see. I don't have much room to work here outside. How long was your antenna?
I might be able to rig up a 10' one here.
I am just guessing but I think the insulation may be blocking/filtering some of the energy. Maybe get some amps
with the bare wire?
Just a thought.
Bill
edit: removed as it was off-topic.
edit: removed as it was off-topic.
@ Epiphany
Could you draw up a circuit about your last 2 posts, thanks
I would like to try your post out :)
Jim
edit: removed as it was off-topic
Just a thought, But you might try peeing on your earth battery many times and see what happens?
You would get zapped.
Bill
Ha Ha, might get zapped, ;D yep I heard stories out this way about gents at the local going outside for a relieve, and someone decided to hook a ign coil to the fence. Aparently electrons can travel up against the flow of stream peeeee and Im told it does hurt a bit. ROFL
Saw mythbusters trying to prove or dis-a-prove this one, the bauldy headed 1 was holding his jewels in a pain full way in this episode, so it must be true. :o
Now, back to stubblefield stuff, I came across something (whilt I was looking 4 PWM stuff and made) that us all might be interrested in.
As we know, NS wound his coils in a biffiar action, I saw in a post in stan meyers PWM stuff by another chappie, he had taken a single wire, doubled it over and wound it on a former biffiar just as NS did. Only thing is, it was just copper, not copper and iron wire.
Gotta find this addy and will post it here.
BTW dont get vaccinated, read this, http://www.loveforlife.com.au/node/754
jim
@ all
Knowing we in the past have mentioned about CROs, and the cost of them, etc, I kept my eye out for a simple circuit for making a very simple CRO. Nothing fancy.
All you need is a working tube, then go to this web site http://www3.telus.net/chemelec/Projects/Oscilloscope/Scope.htm and download it.
jim
edit: removed as it was off-topic.
Free is always good! At least, it is to me.
Bill
@all
Over the last weekend I did a bit of browsing and came across a certain Daniel Cook from 1871 vintage. What took my attention, is his methods, similar to NS, he must of been in touch with him, anyway, I downloaded the pdf, which has a lot of other stuff as well.
He was working on a similar setup to Nathan Stubblefield, but not the same. Reading here on pages 11-40 to 11-42 at the following web address http://www.free-energy-info.com/chapter11.pdf he says he has better results by winding on his coils at least 1000 turns of wire on a iron core. Ther iron core can be a solid core or it could be made of several smaller iron lengths.
He mentiones a resistor connected to sustain the "battery" so it will not have to be restarted, there is a mention of "iron cores" and be insulated with "silk" or shellak, (jeanna you may be correct,( remember our silk and cotton postings :D ) and on the right parth).
Now he also connected a pair of his "coils" crosslinked fashion, it seems to create a self generating oscillating coil. although he managed to get just 1 coil running.
Reading further he mentions that the size of the coils, (crossectional area) also has a big bearing on the current output.
He mentions there are Primary and Secondary coils, same as NS.
Anyway, its just my 2 cents worth, but we have all been looking for anything that could give us a clue for our setups.
jim
@ bill
This is also relavent for those at your site, if you want to copy it to there, please do. after all we are all working for the same outcome, jim
@ epiphany
I have been reading your areial wire setup, nice. The extra length is working, what would happen if you made up a couple of big flat disks and put them at the top of your aerial, I wonder if that would give you some capatance.
I think if you wanted to tap into radient energy, if you drive some nails in a length of wood, then use a free wire end, drag it fast from each nail, from left to right, the making and breaking of the contacts forms a square wave giving sharp pulses.
Maybe that could kick start it.
jim
Hi Guys,
This is my 1st post here...so be gentle :)
I am very interested in this topic. I notice these posts are all from some time ago. Has anyone made any recent experiments?
I found another site that lists some info about this. And if I am reading correctly they have achieved Very large currents.
The page is very repetitious, and a bit hard to follow...but check it out I you are interested:-
http://www.angelfire.com/ak5/energy21/earthbatteries.htm
Some of their claims sounds too good to be true (that's if I am reading correctly.)
I have been trying to get out in the paddock for the last few weeks, and do some testing. Hopefully I will get a chance in the near future.
Any one have anything new to add?
Cheers!
Paul.
Hello PrePo and welcome to the site.
I'll be gentle, :D you are right about not much been hapenning, we all got a bit slack, me thinks its because of all the diss a pointments result wise, an most here have jobs to go to, not like me, old white haired slack and lasy ;D
Its 12.48 am here so I gotta go n get some sleep, but I will take a bau peep at that web addy you provided in the morning.
Feel free to put in your 2 bob's worth, it just might be the "key" we need an itl make u famous ha ha
Jim
Hello,
Has anybody used an ionizing coating on their antenna? Potassium chloride is relatively easy to acquire (salt substitute in grocery store). This should aid collection of charge. Simply set up a ground insulated sheet of mylar or aluminum sheeting (aluminum foil), horizontally, Then check the charge with your multimeter. Then mist the foil with a solution of pure water with as much potassium chloride you can disolve into it and take another reading. (not sure if it has to dry)
I have also read that metalic, Christmas tree garland will act similar to the ionizing needles on Plauson's 1922 collection balloons. You simply add the garland to the end of your antenna. You could test this with the addition of the potassium chloride ionizing mist (not sure if it has to dry)
Can anybody test these ideas?
Thanks,
Tom
@hello all
It's nice to read about all these "other" discoveries, and it makes a change to the Nathan Stubblefield forum, however this site was developed for the Stubblefield research group.
Now please don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to put anyone off, and I certainly don't want to offend anyone reading this, but I think we need to keep the Stubblefield stuff on track.
Those who have posted reciently, have done this in good faith with a view of trying to join in and helping with suggestions, which is appreceiated, and please continue to do so.
If you want to help with Stubblefield "stuff" then the best suggestion I could make is to ask nicely, to take a look at all the posts.
Browse through them, then take a indepth look through, just maybe we older posters have missed a previous vital clue.
(we are not perfect)
This will give you the reader a good grounding of what we have been doing. Many previous posters have provided many helpful links.
There is another Stubblefield forum started by Billo, which is appreciated as it takes a bit of strain off this group, and we seem to see saw between the 2 groups. Bill passes by here from time to time, hello Bill.
I apologise if I have ruffled any feathers, but we should get back on track.
Jim
@ tolenio
Hello Tom
Welcome to the forum, ;D
I havent even given it a thought, about using an ionizing process, (this is something I want to do one day) I believe you must be referring about the process that is used to coat the cathodes of valves, when they get hot they emit electrons to travel towards the plate, being "modulated" by the grid.
I have been thinking of using a Triode between the mosfet and my SS cells, saves destroying my transisters. (but this is for another forum)
But your suggestion may be a key for us.
Jim
Bentonite is great for getting an excellent conductive ground.
Link to article: http://www.hard-core-dx.com/nordicdx/antenna/ground/bentonite.html (http://www.hard-core-dx.com/nordicdx/antenna/ground/bentonite.html)
The bentonite idea sounds good.
Charcoal powder has been used for many years to help create a better ground too.
I've seen it in old text books for grounding crystal radio sets.
They showed a copper plate surrounded with charcoal powder.
@ epiphany
and abbarue, welcome to the group.
Bentonite
This sounds like a good item of information to be included in the Stubblefield site, I had better get some bentonite soon and try it out.
I saw a post some where back in one of the patients, someone had done the same thing using sulphur cake as a grounding medium.
Looks like I will have to dig up my electrodes and plonk them in this stuff :D
I didn't know about the usage charcol either as a grounding substance, but then charcol (or graphite) has conducting properties.
Making a magnetic rod
I had an idea the other day (last week) about magnetising a steel rod or bar, then bifillar wind on the bar. My theory is the "iron" wire wound on the iron rod becomes magnetic, ans as we know, if a magnetic field collapses it induces an EMF pulse through the secondary, but it occurs in any coil wrapped around the iron bar.
If the magnetic field can be made to resonate with the magnetic field in the iron bar, it should be able to have a continuous output.
The trick is to find the trigger to create the process. NS did it and if he did then why can't anyone else?
Anyway I found a 1 inch wide, 1 foot long iron bar and I managed to magnetise it by stroking it with a strong speaker magnet I had. I held the bar in my left hand and placed the magnet about half way, then draw-ed it towards and off the end of the iron bar. It's a booring bit of work, so I walked around outside, I stroked the iron bar about 100 times. In the end the iron bar became magnetic, but the magnetic field was very very weak, but it's a beginning.
jim
Jim:
If you go back.....waaaaaay back into the very beginning of this long topic, Joe and I discussed something similar to this magnet idea. I just got the crazy idea of placing a very powerful neo magnet on top of my - electrode in the ground. This was in the early days of multiple electrodes as opposed to the coils. As I recall, my results went up a bit, as did Joe's.
I don't know how this might apply to the iron core in the coils but, like I always say, why not try it and see? To me, whenever I see iron, it is just begging to be magnetized. This will either disrupt the electron flow, or enhance it. There are very powerful neos to be had for cheap prices. I took this one out of a shake to charge flashlight when I stole the supercap and the led out of it for making some of my video experiments on youtube. The entire light cost me $4.00 and the magnet is about 1/2" dia by about 1 and 1/14" long and very strong. This is the same magnet I carried with me into the stores to "test" iron materials for my core. That is why I ended up using the zinc coated spikes because the magnet would hardly let go of them. The other "iron" rods I tested were weak on the magnet.
I still have not given up on all of this. I have, fortunately, been very busy with work which means maybe some possible disposable income to use to buy supplies...wire, magnets, meters....etc.
I kind of like the antenna idea, I have seen this before. I would like to make one and wire it in series with one or more of our coils. No telling what we might get. Probably not good in an electrical storm though. Take care Jim.
Bill
@ Bill,
Hello Bill, nice to see you again, it's good to have a break from the NS stuff and recharge the cells :D.
I had better go and read up, wayyyyy back lol, I had,nt realised you and Joe had done this experiment, I know where to get my hands on one of these torches, if I can't get that one I'll buy another one and try it next weekend.
I hammered a iron bar vertically into the earth a few months ago and wrapped about 350turns of insulated fig8 wire around it, but nothing seems to be happening there.
I had my eyes opened today Bill, I was repairing the windings of a foreign made aircompressor, the start windings were open circuited, the ends looked like there was solder at the ends, so I got out the soldering iron, tried to solder the ends. Nope, no chance, then I twisted them, the wires felt very "soft", taking a closer look, they were made from aluminium varnished coated wire. I used a nylon cable terminal block, and the motor worked. Copper being the price it is today, the electric coils seem to be made of ally, does the same thing, but I wonder if it would stand up to the temperatures some of these motors operate at? Time will tell.
On another topic, I came across a electric fence tester meter that can measure from 0 to 10 Kilovolts, this has a moving coil magnet arrangement, but the coil movement is jammed with dirt, it has 1 transformer, 4 x 1n4004 diodes, 2 resistors, 1 Tpot and 1 x 6.8uF 250v capacitor.
I'll do a reverse engineering on the circuit later on and post it on the forum here. Maybe "others" making SS HHO cells might like to replicate it?
Chemtrails have hit our place now, weather has been awful since then, took some picks.
Did my washing, then the chemtrails appeared, wonder if that stinking rotton stuff gets into fresh washing?
In regards to the aerial experiment, I have thought of using MIG welding wire, this comes on spools, sometimes there seems to be several spools thrown out at the dump, the wire seems to loose its protective coating and can't be used. I thought of making a aluminium foil disk, for the top end of the wire and pull the lot upwards in a hydrogen filled balloon, connect the other end to a sparkplug n earth, just to see if it would work. Could get it to go pretty high using that method. I suppose one could do the same thing by dropping the wire end over a cliff face. ;)
I better be off I talk to much
jim
@all
Here is the 10KV HV tester I have been reparing, after a little sloothing, it turns out to be made by Daken Electra, after speaking to them on the phone they wern't willing to depart with any info as it was too old. ;)
However I have managed to get it working.
OK the transformer has 1200 ohms on one side, 8 ohms the other side, those who are able to figure it out (audio) should do OK assembling it.
Attatched are the home drawn circuit and scale artwork.
Seems to me the HV goes to the 1200 side of the T1, the output goes to the "bridge" which are 1n4007 diodes, the 0v connecting to a moving coil meter. Resisters are 1/2 to 1 watt, cap is 6.8uF polyester 250v, meter adjust is 25k Tpot.
See the "scale" for meter type to use.
Usages, could be used on HHO SS cell setups if driving with bifilar on graphite rod, mabe testing the alternator PWM tooo.
jim
Here is the circuit, sorry 4 the roughness
helo all, i am new to the free energy world and have just finished reading this entire thread.i noticed intrest seemed to drop off or moved to bills other room. just found while researching other stuff an intresting popular mechanics article that correlates with collecting energy wirelessly via frequency. heres the link http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2008-01/electricity-air. just bought some copper rod and magnesium to give me a chance to experiment until i catch up on how coils work. dont give up.
ps: i noticed a few have been following hans research @ another site/blog, can you post a link to it,his research helped fill in all sorts of holes thanx
@ lbnc3992001
Welcome to the forum, nice to have you along.
Bill has done some excellent work with stubblefield cells, he has posted a video on U tube about his setup and findings.
I will go and take a look at the web addy you posted tomorrow.
jim
thanks for the e-mail, it apears as if even bills thread has taken a break,any chance you could e-mail me NS's patent you "updated". thanks
LB
hello all, went out and played with hollow copper poles about 2ft long with 1/2 inch diameter and magnesium blocks like bills(from the walmart camping section). tried them in multiple point around the yard orientated positve north and magnesium south and got 1.34 vdc. no matter where i placed them.couldnt get a milliamp reading, but i am using an ideal digital multimeter that only has a single setting for amps so it may not read amps this low. I live in town and have 3 grounding wires at three of the four corners of my yard for the power lines so that may give me potential for a variety of experiments to see if the discharge from them mean anything. i did try using the powerline ground for my negative and copper for my positive and got .44 vdc, then tried copper to magn. block by the ground rod and got 1.34 vdc again. also tried orientating by cu & mg in between the two grounds and got1.24 vdc, the orientation was east to west for this. plan on playing some more tommorrow sometime, if there is anything anyone wants me to try using the grounding wires let me know.
LB
Quote from: lbnc392001 on October 19, 2008, 12:43:25 AM
hello all, went out and played with hollow copper poles about 2ft long with 1/2 inch diameter and magnesium blocks like bills(from the walmart camping section). tried them in multiple point around the yard orientated positve north and magnesium south and got 1.34 vdc. no matter where i placed them.couldnt get a milliamp reading, but i am using an ideal digital multimeter that only has a single setting for amps so it may not read amps this low. I live in town and have 3 grounding wires at three of the four corners of my yard for the power lines so that may give me potential for a variety of experiments to see if the discharge from them mean anything. i did try using the powerline ground for my negative and copper for my positive and got .44 vdc, then tried copper to magn. block by the ground rod and got 1.34 vdc again. also tried orientating by cu & mg in between the two grounds and got1.24 vdc, the orientation was east to west for this. plan on playing some more tommorrow sometime, if there is anything anyone wants me to try using the grounding wires let me know.
LB
Welcome lbnc
If you decide to experment on a larger scale here is a few links for magnesium anodes.
http://www.farwestcorrosion.com/fwst/anodgalv/farw05.htm
http://www.victormfg.com/bin/f.wk?vm.product.display+PRODUCT=vmanodes
http://www.galvotec.com/magnesium-anodes.htm
We were also thinking that carbon would be cheaper and put out more voltage than copper for the other electrode .
gary
@ LB
Well, I havent tried those "earth" pole experiments :D but take care you dont hook to a live one, especially in a storm as those pole wires are supposed to earth faults.
I will take a look for the "patient" and forward it to you, it is bacially the same, I just wrote it in everyday english to make it eassier to read.
@ gary,
Hello there mate, havent seen you for awhile, are you ok
Nice to see you again.
@all, the wife has been in hospital again, so had to down tools for a while, she had a small stroke, infection in a lung, and a headake, she is back home and on the mend.
For those who have read far enough back, I once reported some breakthrews with my scope, and it turned out my hotwater system earth strap came adrift, well last week several holes appearred in the top of the hot water system, it got almost as bad as the "flood" needed web feet to get around, drilled a 1" hole through the floor (always wanted to do that ;D ) to drain the water, there is a new HW system on the front verrandah ready to go in.
jim
Electricme:
A bit off topic but, that is why everyone should replace when failure their water heater with on demand system. No big
tank of water to go all over. I dont like the idea of wading around in water with electric wires close. :o
thaelin
@ thaelin,
Thanks for your remarks, :D I had to get some thread seal tape today for the threads, tomorrow, out with then old and in with the new.
jim
Quote from: electricme on October 20, 2008, 05:21:40 AM
@ gary,
Hello there mate, havent seen you for awhile, are you ok
Nice to see you again.
@all, the wife has been in hospital again, so had to down tools for a while, she had a small stroke, infection in a lung, and a headake, she is back home and on the mend.
Jim
I have been watching this thread .. I just ran out of money for expermenting
The stuff related to this thread that I would do if I had the money would not be cheap
I would try a large stubblefield coil . I think we have the basics down but we don't have enough power to make a magnetic switch . Once the switch is working then it would be time for a secondary .
Another thing I would do is try the large magnesium annodes and carbon cathodes to see how much usable power they could provide . I think the larger ones are rated at 1 A
If I remember right they can be wired in series as long as they are far enough apart to not short out . I would wire them to provide between 12 and 15 V then hook them directly to a couple of deep discharge batterys .. an inverter could be used to power stuff in the house . It would be interesting to see how much real power it would provide .
I hope you wife is getting better fast .
gary
@ Gary,
I agree totally with your theory, I think we need to pile the turns on, then see how the cell performs.
Making small coils has given everyone a lot of experience, and sore fingers, but like you said, it takes money to make a big coil, me being a pensioner dosent leave me with much to go and buy everything I need but I cope ok.
But, and its a big but, when someone gets a breakthrew, and gets some current from his (her) cells, then whacko.
In the middle of december I'm going to shell out on a frequency meter, but this is for HHO stuff, but then again, NS coils operate on frequencies also, so I can justify the expence.
Now I got to get my hole punch out and make a few hundred holy rubber washers for the above, its for another bloke.
I duck into Bills thread from time to time to take a look at it
I see jeanna has changed her avatar, it looks OK.
Wife is on the mend
Jim
Hello,
Could you guys give me the specs on a large NS coil (or point me in the right direction)?
Thank you
Carl
@ Carl,
Hello and welcome to the group.
Carl, 1st off most people have made only very small coils in this group, that said, there is no limit in theory to how big a coil should be, but this depends on how much ready cash one wants to spend, the price of copper wire being the biggest outlay.
As the size of the coil increases, so does the weight relating to the amount of copper and iron wire turns you put on.
The same also amounts for the length of the iron rod you begin with, then there is a limit on how big the whole thing will be, and I'm talking about how much weight you can handle on 1 hand while winding the bifillar winding, and not mucking it up.
Then there is the fingers, they get sore, and I mean sore with the constant handling of holding 2 wires together while winding them.
If all that dosent faze you, then go for it.
My 1st job as an apprentice in about 1967-8 was to hold 6 copper wires together in 1 hand, to make up a rectangle profile whilst wrapping cotton tape arround them, each completed length was about 10' long and I had to do about 30 sets, to be used on a huge starter motor for a generating plant, phew, that was a superman effort which took me quite a while.
If you intend to use or make up a winding jig, then go for the big coil.
I reccomend you get a copy of the Nathan Stubblefield Patient and read up on it, there are previous posts where you can find it.
There is Bills Nathan Stubblefield web forumn which is also very good, click on the HOME icon, and look for Pirate88179 entry.
You will need a lot of patience, as this one (NS coils) is not giving it's secrets up willingly.
But first off, take a look at Billo's UTube on his experiments he has posted, (see below addies) its very good and try your own setup with copper and aluminium rods, see what happens with that. Just to give you some experience. Read up on earth currents etc etc.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=mq9ZKDKDclY
http://youtube.com/watch?v=vixrFpm0p_g
jim
Any one know some sites to get deals on copper and iron wire for the coils, and advise for the wooden spool stublefield put betwenthe primary and secondary windings?
Hi everybody,
I just had to participate after reading (only a part) of this thread because this is a fascinating issue. I actually started yesterday by reading some NS stuff, and then I found Bill’s Youtube video (that really got my full attention on this subject). Good work!
I am an electronic engineer, so there are some things I can help with, like the measurements part:
An AC measurement is actually a tricky thing due to the equipment. There are various “false†measures you can make. A “true†AC measure would use a “true RMS†multimeter, and they are a bit expensive. Normal multimeters just correct the AC tension and apply a filter to get a DC part, this is later multiplied by a factor (the so called “form factorâ€) that is valid only for a sinewave. So, if you measure a square wave you will have a wrong value for AC tension, a different frequency also wields “wrong†results.
It would actually be a good thing to see the measured wave by use of an oscilloscope. And as the earth battery is very weak, there must be some degree of isolation; a lower impedance would interfere with the measure.
And this morning I had this notion that we are dealing with earth’s magnetic field. It changes with time and is not geographically uniform. (Check this page: http://www.geomag.bgs.ac.uk/earthmag.html).
It would be interesting to link the current of our worldwide observations with this map http://www.geomag.bgs.ac.uk/images/fig2.pdf.
I say this because a vertical component of the magnetic field would result in eddy currents at the earth’s surface (a good conductor). Such currents would be as inherently chaotic as the magnetic field itself.
More on eddy currents: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddy_current
A simulated picture of the magnetic chaos: http://www.es.ucsc.edu/~glatz/field.html
A simple measuring tool (check 3d compass video): http://www.wfu.edu/physics/demolabs/demos/avimov/byalpha/mnvideos.html
However, if you disturb the magnetic field you may rearrange it locally; how much energy would you use or what level perturbation you would cause, I simply don’t know. But for sure is not a question of raw power, but more of a feedback oscillation in some resonant frequency (and the use of coils conforms to this idea).
In a first glance I think it could yield huge results, and the NS story seams to confirm it.
I am going to do some experimenting with the plain battery poles, and then go for plates. I am thinking of measuring to understand the phenomenon before going to the coils.
The problem with replicating what others have done is that we sometimes miss the path they used to get there. For sure NS didn’t just put the coils in the ground without having some idea of what he was trying to achieve.
Ram
Hello again,
I hope this group’s interest is not down at this time :-\ I have some new info.
I started testing with electrodes, however things got better when I used 2 identical electrodes (Cu). There is a charge that keeps building up (I gave up measuring at 20 mV). I know this is not much, and initially I suspected the multimeter was charging the cell, but that was until I changed polarity and it kept charging with a negative sign.
I am using the same type of electrodes because we are not interested in a galvanic action, but in that mysterious X factor from the earth.
I used to teach chemistry in high-school, and the principles of batteries are something I know well. With 2 identical electrodes in the same electrolyte, you do not have a battery cell anymore: you have an accumulator, if anything. This means you must charge it before use. Would our elusive earth power be charging this accumulator?
It is not the case yet, because we do not have a uniform electrolyte. A simple test with a water jar does the same thing, and shows that the electrodes always get the same polarity (apparently one of them has a slight different in composition that causes this). However, in earth, this is not the case. Sometimes one electrode is positive, others is negative. It depends on the chemistry of the spots you use.
So far I tested with a flower box and a large flowerbed made over cement. This was on purpose; I will test with “real†earth tomorrow.
I also wanted to mention something about the NS telephone pictures. I was always bothered by the number of rods he inserted on the ground. Why 3? Either for power or induction of the signal, you would only need 2. Then it hit me: if the signals travel in parallel or perpendicular to the alignment of two rods, then you would have a blind area to each side. To avoid this you would need, at least, one more rod. In a triangular configuration there are no blind spots and 120 degrees of coverage for each 2 rod’s transmitter/receiver. Its time to check the pictures…
Hi Ram,
If you want to test electrodes in soil, I suggest you test the South-North orientation then the East-West orientation, then redo the same test with one electrode deeper than the other and the other way around.
You should come up with many answer to this way of producing electricity. The rest is mainly different type of metal used and size of electrodes.
Take care,
Michel
Hi Michel,
Thanks for the suggestion; it was in line with my idea. If a difference exists between electrodes only due to orientation, then we have something that is attributed to the earth itself, and not just soil composition.
However, this is just a preliminary test. What I will be locking into is that transient component that was talked about, and how to influence it.
The bimetal device may be useful or not. Maybe is just a way of generating the low power required for the device; maybe is the essential of the device… Who knows? To answer the question we must capture the mysterious transient with both systems and see if there is a difference.
BTW, regarding AC measures: there is a simple trick to know if you have AC or not, that is to reverse the polarity of the amp meter. In a 2 metal electrodes earth battery we find that, in reserse polarity, it wields zero. That is because, as I said, the equipment rectifies the signal using diodes, applies it to a filter (capacitor) and them multiplies by the form factor. If the signal has a DC component greater than AC, then it will never read AC values in reverse polarity. In general, when you have AC+DC, you cannot measure the AC at all, except if you remove the DC part using a decoupling circuit. And even after that you have the problem of not reading low values (where is the mVac selection in your equipment?) because the measuring circuit must overcome the diode voltage drop before he can read anything.
Ram:
Your post was interesting to me on several levels. First, way, way, way, way back I did a test or two with two copper pipes and got both volts and mA's which is when I concluded this was not galvanic as some claimed back then. I believe Joe did a similar test series as well. I also found that, per Joe's suggestion, if you plant one electrode in the ground, then hold the other one some distance away, say three feet, and hook up your meter to the pipes you can "scan" around the compass circle to get the highest readings, then plant the other electrode. According to the literature we have read, the north should be deeper and the angle between the bottom of the two electrodes should equal the magnetic declination angle for your area. Again, I did the above tests and found that, yes, north/south gave the highest readings and then I began tapping the other electrode into the ground while measuring the output and, low and behold, when I got to a certain depth the readings began to drop off. They had been climbing. I crudely measured this angle from the bottom of each electrode over the separation distance and I believe it was about 30 degrees, which is about right for my area according to the chart someone published on here a long time ago.
But, do your own testing for the best position. Your location, soil composition etc., all might like something else.
Now, about the meters and testing for ac. Both Joe and I got ac "readings" right off the bat. We all had a lot of discussion of if this were really ac. Hans suggested using an analog meter, which I did, and it confirmed exactly all of my other digital readings in both ac and dc. Whenever polarity was reversed, in either ac or dc testing, the only change was a minus sign was added to the readout in digital, and in analog, the meter tried to go the wrong way. I did not notice any difference in testing either ac or dc with respect to reversing the polarity. This was all the same for my copper and copper pipes, my carbon rod and magnesium electrodes as well.
Another argument against it just being galvanic, not that we need any more as you said, I believe (I can go back and look it up) the limit for galvanic is supposed to be 1.5 volts, like in a battery cell and yet I consistently got over 2 vdc out of the carbonrod/magnesium block arrangement. I think it went as high as 2.3 or 2.4 vdc. I will check.
I look forward to hearing about your experiments. The electrodes are fun because you plant them, and energy just keeps coming off them. It is so simple it is beautiful to me. I really need to make an updated youtube video before winter sets in. I probably need a better camera to do that though. Best of luck with your experiments.
Bill
Hi Bill,
Thanks for the reply, you just told me a lot of stuff that I didn't find in the thread, and I finished reading the whole of it!
But the fact that we use the same metal does not discard the galvanic reaction, because the soil is not uniform, and as such you have a different chemistry for different spots... Any battery cell needs 4 things: one reduction equation, an oxidation equation, a salt bridge and the electric circuit.
The electrode may or may not be the used in the redox equations, there are cells with different electrolytes and both electrodes are inerts, like the standard battery cell:
- Platinum electrodes (non reactive)
- Iron ions electrolyte ( equation Fe3+ + e- â†' Fe2+)
- Copper ions electrolyte ( equation Cu+ â†' Cu2+ + 2e-)
- salt bridge
This is why I think is important to clearly prove that orientation matters: that is not galvanic.
I did the following test: I placed one electrode with several others every 45 degrees around it. The central one is the reference. I measured the difference of potential and recorded the results. Then I got a second “ring†and repeated the process.
I have some results, but I will keep measuring daily to get to a conclusion.
The second thing I did was to place an oscilloscope in the ground. I only had a few minutes of daylight, so it was a “fast†scan. I failed to investigate the lower frequencies, because of a strong 50 Hz interference (remember that I am using a very low voltage at millivolts level). It was a portable scope with a bad battery, so it was plug into the mains: it doesn't work well for low frequencies and low signals.
But at high frequencies, I got something. There where some sporadic pulses (ringing of sorts) with (at least) 2 distinct frequencies of 10 MHz and 1.4 MHz (I have a picture of it). I need to capture the wave to treat the results, but I didn't have time to install the software in a PC.
About measures: I did not make myself very clear about the AC issue. If you invert the polarity at AC measures you will get exactly the same thing and not negative. There is no such thing as a negative AC value, because it has no polarity. AC translates to a current that goes periodically from positive to negative.
The difference between an analog multimeter and a digital, when AC is concerned, is that the digital needs a filter to stabilize the rectified AC signal. Then it measures it as if it where DC.
The analog multimeter is a different animal, because it is mechanical and cannot react fast enough. This makes possible to forget the filter: the coil assembly *is the filter*.
Now, this is good for 50&60 Hz sine waves, and nothing more. A weak signal is a problem, a DC component is a problem, a shape different from a sine wave is a problem, and frequency is a problem.
So, in this case, forget the AC completely. Its meaningless.
Do not trust me on this, check it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimeter#Alternating_current_sensing
I actually had to learn how to build these equipments, either analog or digital.
Ram:
Thank you for the info. If you have read the topic then you know I never claimed to know very much about electronics or meters. I do have to say that I have come a long way by reading and experimenting. I know one hell of a lot more now then when I started but, I still am no expert on any of this.
I will have to try the ac readings again just to make sure. I have no reason to doubt what you say however. We have had several educated folks on here over time telling us the ac measurement was useless as you have also said. Thank God you have a scope. I think a few scope measurements of various set ups will tell us quite a bit. I have always suspected that this is either pulsed dc at an unknown frequency or frequencies or some other kind of ac. I am still leaning toward pulsed dc although I have no scientific reason to do so. I am glad you have joined our efforts here. I have to admit, in the beginning, I liked the "ac" measurements because they were always a little higher than the dc readings. I always reported my results in both ac and dc but it was nice to see about 10-20% higher numbers on the ac settings.
I can't remember but I believe Jim took some scope readings. Maybe not...my memory is so bad these days. I do recall that he had some leakage from some home circuit into his results. Jim, If I am remembering this wrong, please correct me.
I do believe we will see multiple frequencies because why would the earth just emit one? Of course, we are pumping in 60hz into the ground all over the world these days so that would not surprise me to see that one....but, I believe there will be others as well. If we can focus on these frequencies or frequency, maybe we can design something that will work with resonance to up our output.
Anyway, glad to have you aboard.
Bill
Bill,
I know, from the thread, that people are learning a lot of new stuff. Actually this is a good thing, because when you already “knowâ€, it is difficult to “learn†new things. Hell, most people who are professional in this area would promptly dismiss this issue as galvanic without thinking for more than a second.
What separates the inventors at the 1800's from today is that little was known at the time, everybody was experimenting and analyzing things without preconceptions.
Like someone already said on overunity, lets keep our eyes open, be prepared to revise what we know, but we cannot throw everything overboard.
I dont have high hopes for that pulse, because there are lots of possible interferences. A good thing NS had in his time was a clean electromagnetic environment. To learn what he learned, we must see things a bit like it was at his time. So, I doubt he could “see†the pulses at MHz level, but maybe he could hear the “popsâ€. I am going to make some measurement at a remote location to check for this.
I already noticed something that makes a lot more sense and would be noticed with the equipment NS had: when you *make* the circuit to measure the earth battery's voltage, the measures jump around for a while. I would love to see this in the scope, but when I plug it to earth I have the 50 Hz component blocking everything. I really hate this scope! I wish I could change the battery, but I cannot open it without losing the oficial calibration seal.
Lots of rain today, so there is little I can do.
As for AC measures, he is some more info:
The “form factor†for sinewave is 1,11 times the average of the rectified signal, that is what the multimeter's should use. The trouble is, that the equipment can only rectify half the wave, so it will only get half the average. To make the calculations it must multiply the resulting average by 2 and then apply the form factor.
This means that, if you measure a DC value of 1,551 V, after rectifying it you would have an average of 1,551 V â€" Vd (diode voltage drop). Lets say the diode has 0,3 V drop, then you really measure 1,251 V that is multiplied by 2 and by 1,11. That gives you a 2,77 reading at AC.
Thats what I get for my multimeter, and thats what you had with yours (a while back).
Best regards,
Ram
@ lbnc392001
Deals on copper and iron wire differs between places, I suggest you look around for a place that "repairs or rewinds" electric motors, they will have on hand giant spools of every size copper wire, ask them for a kilo or a Lnb of the stuff. Then again, ask them if they have any on a roll that they carnt use as it's too short to make a set of windings ;D I once worked in one place rewinding 3phase motors, and we often had almost empty spools lying around.
On the second question you posted, of "wooden" spool, the only wooden bits NS used was to use wooden ends.
These are placed at either end of the iron bolt, they "contain" the windings, keeping them all lined up and tight.
What you are meaning I think is the insulation used between the primary and secondary coil layers, you could try cotton, or oiled paper.
If using the oiled paper, wrap a couple of turns of paper around the "finished" primary coil, glue the leading edge down, then you could impregnate it with oil, or varnish. Varnish would be the preferred choice, varnish could be used on the cotton as well.
Hope this helps.
jim
I posted a reply but didn't see it so I will try again, if the orig appears I will remove it.
@ RAM
I also would like to welcome you to this Nathan Stubblefield forum.
It's good to have someone who is willing to help with the electronic side of things, especially theory.
Bill was right about my scope readings, seems there was involved a stray 50hz leakage in my house wiring, but I also discovered it was also being fed to the scope via the 3pin 240v plug, (as well of the probes). I took a look around the net and it also is apparent that all scopes which use town power has this effect, so what ever you do, stick with that battery powered scope, (If you leave your employer, offer to BUY it) even if you have to make up a big battery pack so you can extend the time of usage. Hot swappable batteries, like used by an UPS springs to mind as a good idea.
I also got very confused from the huge differences of waveforms, sometimes it would seem to be static, other times it would change at will, othertimes the waveform would dissapear, reappear, other times it would shimmer, even saw some ringing going on.
I thought all this might be caused by a faulty scope so I went out and bought another one, just to verify the originals waveform, but no, both scopes were showing the same waveforms in unison.
So ram, there is something (earth current voltage) and it does exist, the hard part is to harness it and get some jucy amps :D
@ all
I have been fiddling around a bit, trying to make my own instruments, however, today I had a bit of success.
I have 2 VU meters I took off an old amplifier found in the local tip (free store), I soldered a fig8 lead to one of the meters, connected to my zinc and carbon in the back yard,and the needle barely lifted off the stop.
BUT for the first time I got a result from something other than using a digital meter.
This got me all fired up so I did the same thing with a much bigger meter.
I had a old exhaust moving coil meter that I salvaged from the dump, disconnected the printed circuit board and connected a 2 meter length of insulated fig8 leads to the + and - terminals, connected 2 alligator clips to the ends and clipped them to zinc and carbon rods.
I got a result, well what I mean is the needle woke up and moved about 1/3 of the way along the scale, (much further than the 1st VU setup), my digital multimeter says 80.0mv so I'm happy with this.
I reversed the connections and the needle went backwards, good, now I have a analog thingie that is capable of working with ultra low earth currents. ha ha.
I took a photo of this so I will post it after downloading off my mob ph.
I am using zinc plates as - and carbon rod as +, being buried vertically, I have a series of 4 setup in a Nth to Sth line in my back yard, each bank gives out similar readings, however connecting in series seems to increase the voltage out but every time I connect another cell set, it to the previous set, seems to increase but lowers the voltage. There seems to be a reduction when each earth cell is placed in line with the one infront of it. I see others have had this effect also.
for example 1st cell = 6v. 2nd cell = 6v. 3rd cell = 6v. 4th cell = 6v in total one would think = 24v .... Nope not with NS stuff
in practice 1st cell = 6v + 2nc cell = 9v + 3rd cell = 12v + 4th cell = 15v. a loss of = 9v .... (EXAMPLE only)
There appears to be a continuous reduction as one places more cells together in the series circuit
BTW the old HW system is no more, the shiny new one has taken its place at long last. ;D
jim
Here are the photos
28.jpg = VU meter
29.jpg = 1 zinc + Carbon in earth
32.jpg = Large scale analog with digital readout in MA
Hi all have been reading info on this site the last number of days it is great. I have been using
copper and galvinised steel for my electrodes multimeter back this way is analog also have been
using a bit of flat galvinised tin plate for my negative electrode I seem to get a small improvement in
the voltage not much will no more when I get the digital meter.
Electricme,
Thanks for the welcome and the info. I am looking forward to see what you described: since I am working with very low signals I wasn’t able to see anything.
I also reached the same conclusion about the oscilloscopes connected to the mains power: they will always show the AC component in small measures. That is because we reading something connected to the ground, and the power supply also is referenced to the ground.
To overcome this I am making an amplifier supported by batteries, if we have the signal at Volt level, then the AC component becomes too small to hinder the measures.
I was also looking for a PC oscilloscope, the kind that stores internally the measures and then transfers to the PC by USB. There are some cheap ones on ebay (about 50 euros), but they will only go for low speeds (100 kHz). The good ones are expensive (but still, a lot less than an oscilloscope).
I have access to a lot of measuring equipment in my job, and they are ok with me using it because I am careful with it. But I needed something connected to the computer for another project (the alkaline battery recharger), and it also would be a good help to register the waves we are getting in the earth battery.
Regarding those high frequencies pulses, I found out that they came from my Wifi router. The earth is not picking up the signals, but the oscilloscope leads are working as antennas. Maybe I should bury the oscilloscope also… Not sure if my company would like that ;D.
Regards,
Ram
@ nightshade,
Welcome aboard,
I have thought of using "tin" also with my copper pipes, this is a difference on the periodic table of 21, but then again I think if you used a "lead" plate, you would get a better result, this being a difference of 53 points on the periodic table.
@ Ram,
When you say you are making a amplifier, would I be correct in thinking the probes plug into the front end, with the output to the Y input?
If your idea works, I wouldn't mind making one here, just email me the circuit, it would be good to compair results.
Last night we had a couple of storms here, I made a point of looking at the "analog" gauge (in my kitchen) which is connected via a long lead outside to the Carbon and zinc setup outside, (im a lasy coot, dont wanna get wet too ;)) the needle went almost fullscale for about a 1/2 hr, then retracted to about 1/2 scale as the earth was saturated, then htis morning it showed a bit higher scale as the ground dried out.
I must calibrate this thing soon, put a "range" switch in it via a few resistors in series with the MC "moving coil"
But first I have to repair my adjustable power supply, the primary in the T1 has let the smoke out, and it don't work anymore :D
cheers all
jim
thanks for the welcome there electricme and thanks for the info on trying lead that would be
interesting. well went back out again to day and used a different metal a graphit rod for the positive
from the local arts store. but I left the negitive rod as tin the setup was from south to north north being
A graphite rod and south tin. these were spaced 1 foot 21 inches from each other I obtained
readings on the multimeter of 1.13v but very poor current next I will try that lead and see the
difference.
electricme
I tryed your setup using the led circuit from a garden solar light. my setup south to north using
steel galvinised plate for the negative electrode and a copper pipe as positive electrode.these
were 10 feet apart wired in the led circuit it worked a nice white glow. also tryed this 2 feet apart and it
still worked also I noticed that alternating brightness you were talking about very interesting.
this was done from 6.00 pm to 11.00 pm the led was very bright at 6.00 pm then from about 10.00 pm
it started to dim down and stayed at this level to about 11.00 pm .
@nightshade,
I apologise for the late reply.
It's good you are getting some results with your Cu and Fe setup, have you been able to charge the 1.2v nicad as well?
I'm going to try using a steel plate as the - (neg) just to see what will happen.
Last week
Been fooling around with some solar garden cells, I soldered 27 single tiny cells in series.
Each cell is about 2" square and in sunlight got about 45volts in milliamps on a very overcast day.
Seperated this string into 3 sets, each putting out around 18volts, connected up a 12v drill nicad battery pack which charged up OK after about 12 hrs.
Yesterday
I had a bit of thin flat copper laying about, 454mm x 180mm so I burried it vertically, found a 12" diameter lead anti turmite shield used on wooden stumps in this area, so this became the - electrode. Hooked up my meter and read 0v ha ha.
Next I placed my 5 carbon electrodes, (wired in parallel) next to the copper sheet, then beried a zinc plate next to the lead - and read off .2 climbed about .3 volts.
A storm came through later on, as the ground got wet, the readings went up to .5v as the ground dried out the reading went down.
I connected a LED to it but there wasn't enough current to even make it glow.
The Lead and zinc share a commom earth connection
The Cu and Carbon have a seperate connection.
I bring the energy into the house via a 3 core extension lead, thats where I connect my led and meters to it.
Sure beats being in the sun or rain or fiddling around with a torch.
Green wire = (neg) Lead + Zinc 0v or earth connection.
Brown wire = (pos) Carbon
Blue wire = (pos) Copper plate
jim
Hello all!
I haven't had time to read through all 200+ pages so I thought I would just ask and apologize if this has already been posted. I'm running a little thin on funds to buy materials. I have some nails and screws and a small spool of #18 Copper wire and the requisite soldering iron etc. Can I rig something up with what I currently have so I can play around with earth batteries? Would making a spring-like coil from the copper wire substitute for the pipe? I have a high-brightness LED. Would that work to test this since I do not have a meter any more?
Quote from: RAM on October 31, 2008, 08:07:17 AM
Bill,
I know, from the thread, that people are learning a lot of new stuff. Actually this is a good thing, because when you already “knowâ€, it is difficult to “learn†new things. Hell, most people who are professional in this area would promptly dismiss this issue as galvanic without thinking for more than a second.
What separates the inventors at the 1800's from today is that little was known at the time, everybody was experimenting and analyzing things without preconceptions.
Like someone already said on overunity, lets keep our eyes open, be prepared to revise what we know, but we cannot throw everything overboard.
I dont have high hopes for that pulse, because there are lots of possible interferences. A good thing NS had in his time was a clean electromagnetic environment. To learn what he learned, we must see things a bit like it was at his time. So, I doubt he could “see†the pulses at MHz level, but maybe he could hear the “popsâ€. I am going to make some measurement at a remote location to check for this.
I already noticed something that makes a lot more sense and would be noticed with the equipment NS had: when you *make* the circuit to measure the earth battery's voltage, the measures jump around for a while. I would love to see this in the scope, but when I plug it to earth I have the 50 Hz component blocking everything. I really hate this scope! I wish I could change the battery, but I cannot open it without losing the oficial calibration seal.
Lots of rain today, so there is little I can do.
As for AC measures, he is some more info:
The “form factor†for sinewave is 1,11 times the average of the rectified signal, that is what the multimeter's should use. The trouble is, that the equipment can only rectify half the wave, so it will only get half the average. To make the calculations it must multiply the resulting average by 2 and then apply the form factor.
This means that, if you measure a DC value of 1,551 V, after rectifying it you would have an average of 1,551 V â€" Vd (diode voltage drop). Lets say the diode has 0,3 V drop, then you really measure 1,251 V that is multiplied by 2 and by 1,11. That gives you a 2,77 reading at AC.
Thats what I get for my multimeter, and thats what you had with yours (a while back).
Best regards,
Ram
"keep our eyes open." Most definitely. I don't know what I'm doing so I figure any result will be exciting to me and even more so because I don't know what "isn't possible." Great things have been accomplished by people who didn't know that those great things weren't possible.
electricme
thanks for the reply no I havent tryed charging a nicad. but iv had the copper pipe and the galvinised
steel plate in a new area for the last two weeks
noticed that the voltage seems to jump around abit from about dc volts 0.96 to 1.02 and the current at
the moment is 2.25ma and the ac volts are 1.4 funny thing is went out the
other night and attached the circuit and the white led lit up and it was as bright as you would get if you
were using a 1.5 volt battery. now I have seen close to this in
the past but never this bright.now before this happened I was up on you tube and came across a video
some one filmed about a meteor that landed over
canada at about the same time. I came across an article a while ago on the internet a scientist was
talking about objects hitting the earth and the kenetic energy
that is transfered talking small scale here and he was speculating on the affects of the magnetic
currents flowing in the earth. info just seemed to spark the gray matter.
Hi there timmy1729
your post seems interesting on trying the copper coils give it a try and see what your results are
back this way just using the circuit out of a garden solar light setup this setup runs through a grove of
trees could be helping with the brightness from the led.
@ timmy1729
By all means, try the copper wire in the earth and see what you get back out, I think you will get something but not much.
Make sure you have another metal as a negative also.
A HB High Brightness LED takes more voltage and current to work than the usual green LED as found in pc cases, the green LED would light up before a RED or HB Led. If you need a green led, visit your local PC repair man and ask him if he could spare one off a old 386 or 486 case etc, :)
@ nightshade, I just picked up a Adj PowSupply 0-30v 0-20amps for $165 at Disk Smith, they had $100 discount on it. whackoooo
my old PSU went down about a month ago. Now I can get back into the experementing again.
@all
Over the past week, the output from the Cu and Carbon rods have been getting higher, still not enough to light any leds, but the needle on my modified anolog meter is pinned to the right, it really snapps over to full on and bounces off the stopps.
~|~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ = ground
|fe | pb |c |cu
|______|__________(0)neg wire to house | + | + seperate wires to house
fe plate is iron/steel is connected to pb lead disk as the earth or negative
c Carbon rods (5) and cu Copper plate are seperate + pos
Hope the above made sence to U all
@timmy1729
If you have a junk yard man, have a talk to him, these people usually don't mind people scavenging around to see if there is an old meter laying about, I have got a couple here I freed up the movement to get it working, take a look at some of the last 5 posts.
There is a storm brewing here so I better get this off
jim
@nightshade & electricme
Can I make the coil like a cork-screw and just leave one end of the coil in the ground and hook up the other end or do I need to make it in a solenoid style and set it in the ground horizontally and solder the two ends together that stick out of the ground? Also, the copper wire has that plastic/rubber/whatever insulation. Do I need to strip it first or can I just wind the coil with the insulation intact?
@ Jim:
I hope you are well. Did you see my post on the Stubblefield topic about my new Joule Thief's? If not, let me know and I can post here. A very simple (and very cheap) circuit to build. I got designs from instructables and metacafe. I can light a very very bright (28,500 mcd) 10mm super bright led (requires 3.5-4 volts) with an old AA bat. (1.5 volts) I have not tried it outside yet but I want to hook it to my carbon rod/magnesium set-up. My guess is it will light this led brightly and possibly, I can add several more.
I think this is a great way for folks that are not quite getting enough juice to light an led to get to light an led. It is a nice feeling of accomplishment to actually light something up from the ground. I am not sure when I can try this but I will report on both topics my results. I just bought another transistor (2N3904-NPN) so I will make another circuit. I want to try two in series and possibly parallel. I will try to post some photos here, don't know if it will work or not.
If anyone is interested, I will post the links to the joule thief circuit. My total cost was about $4.00 including the high priced super bright led from Radio Shack.
Bill PS The photo with it lit is NOT from my earth battery, it is running on an old single AA battery.
timmy1729 and electricme
was wondering about the readings on my cheap digital multimeter and seeing as those white leds
need about 3 volts and up I went and attached my analogue meter to the copper pipe and zinc plate in
the ground they are about four feet apart and set it to the 2.5 volts setting
and the needle went right up to over 3 volts hovering half way between 3 and 4 volts that digital meter
only has a 20 volt setting at it`s lowest so im getting more volts then I thought I was first i tested this
by attaching a 1.5 volt battery and the needle went to just a tad over 1 volt so out with the digital
I think im going to trust the needle meter more in the future .
If anyone is looking for a copper tube, Home Depot has inexpensive copper tubes that are(per the website) "3/8 inch rigid copper in 6 foot length" for $6.81 each! I might have to go by there this afternoon and get one so I can start on my earth battery.
Oh, Lowes has:
JMF
1/2" x 6" Copper Repair Coupling
Item #: 24706 Model: 24000001
for $2.57 here in Montgomery, AL.
@ Timmy:
You would be much better off with a carbon rod on the + side and magnesium on the - side. This would give you a usable output. The copper set-up you are speaking of will give you measurable output, but I don't think you will be able to do anything with it. I am going back to my original configuration (as mentioned above) to attempt to lite some Christmas lights (LEDS) using also my joule thief.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on December 08, 2008, 12:44:19 AM
@ Timmy:
You would be much better off with a carbon rod on the + side and magnesium on the - side. This would give you a usable output. The copper set-up you are speaking of will give you measurable output, but I don't think you will be able to do anything with it. I am going back to my original configuration (as mentioned above) to attempt to lite some Christmas lights (LEDS) using also my joule thief.
Bill
Can you suggest somewhere to get the magnesium? I can get a carbon rod at Hobby Lobby. It's the only place around here I've found that carries them. I've quickly checked for magnesium, but I don't know where to find any. ???
@ Timmy:
I have been using the magnesium fire starter blocks which can be found in the camping section of Walmart and many other stores. There are some close-up pictures on this topic way back somewhere if you don't know what I mean. The price on these vary greatly depending where you buy them but I paid about $4.00 US ea. and bought 3 of them. They are about 3" long and 1.5" wide x1/2" thick of pure magnesium. These are designed for starting a campfire, even in the rain, by shaving off some of the magnesium and then hitting it with a spark to set the little chips ablaze. 1 worked fine for a while but I got higher mA's when I zip tied the 3 of them together. (more mass I guess) The carbon rod I used I bought from a welding supply company. It is 1" dia x 18" long and cost about $20.00. It is pure carbon and had no copper cladding on it at all.
I just bought a string of 100 LED lights on sale for $9.00. Heck, if I bought them at Radio Shack, I could have only bought about 5 LEDs for the same money.
If the carbon at Hobby Lobby is small diameter and not too expensive, you might try banding some of them together with some plastic ties to increase the mass amount. Then remember to place in the ground on the north/south meridian, which is probably not magnetic north in your area. Carbon + to the north, magnesium- to the south. you should see some decent output. (I hope)
Hope this helps.
Bill
edit: removed text to limit bandwidth.
The following two links are interesting to me and I feel relate to the ever changing earth potentials.
About "lightning" in clear weather:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/fort/land/land31.htm
About a flux transfer event between the earth and the sun:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27525165/wid/17621070
I am wanting to get a multi-meter for xmas. What would you recommend? I am no electrical engineer. I simply have started to mess with Earth batteries and other free energy ideas. I just need something for that. Cheap would be wonderful! :P
TIA for any help ;D
Hey Timmy,
Harbor Freight has some cheap ones that work okay.
Here's a link:
http://search.harborfreight.com/cpisearch/web/search.do?keyword=mutimeter (http://search.harborfreight.com/cpisearch/web/search.do?keyword=mutimeter)
edit: I've seen these for $3.99 on sale.
David
http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G12847
Timmy:
I got one of mine at K-mart but it is a craftsman (Sears) meter and it is pretty good. I paid like $29.00 (US)
Above is a link to a great site and, specifically on this page is a meter for $10.00. It should get you started.
I also have an Omega meter (digital) that is very expensive. (over $200.00) that I got from my late father. I have 2 analog meters as well.
If I were you, I would try the $10.00 meter. I am sure it is probably as good as my meter from craftsman. All digital meters have their limitations but we are not building a Spacecraft here, so I think it will be great for your tests.
Bill
@ all,
Sorry I haven't been here for a while, I have been over at bills juel thief site he setup learning about how to drive fluro tubes on a single 1.5v battery. Amazing stuff there, one chapp was driving a 20watt tube, I delved into bifilier torid coils. Learnt a lot.
I ducked there to see if I could pickup anything that could be used on the Nathan Stubblefield site, as we have so very low voltages and currents.
@ timmy1729
In relation to your copper wire, I noticed no-one has answered, should you remove the insulation? answer, "yes" strip it off then see how much you can get berried in the ground, see how it goes.
A meter, well it might be time to take a trip to a radio-TV repairmans place, don't ring up, just front up, ask to see him, tell him what you are doing and ask him if he has a redundant multimeter, a old ANALOG one would do for starters. If he says no, at least you tried.
@ Nightshade
hows you going with the experiments?
I must confess to a booboo, I said in about 4 posts ago that green LED lights up before a RED one, opps, the RED LED lights up before a green one, so use the RED LED as it will glow before a green LED.
@ Ram
I got my frequency meter at long last, but to be truthful, dont know how to use it properly, so I will read up the booklet and get stuck in it and get some results posted. Had to get another miniture multimeter also last weekend, I put 240v AC throught the DC side, (I forgot to move the switch), it didn't smoke, just smelled slightly hmmmmm Ha Ha.
@ bill
I been taking a look at some of the stuff Ironhead has been doing, got to the end of his forum posts and they end, do you know where he is posting from now? He and others were getting amazing results with HHO.
@ to all who read these posts, Happy Christmas
jim
@ Jim:
Thanks for the mention of the Joule Thief topic. Tonight, I just lit up a 40 watt 48" long tube with just a single AA battery!!!! I posted some pics on that topic, check them out when you get a chance. Merry Christmas.
Bill
electricme
The testing is going good back this way have just put a new setup in the ground.
went and brought five sheets of galvinised zinc roofing metal second hand picked it up at the local
demolition shop five sheets four four dollars they are 1 foot 3 high by 2 foot 9 long. I buryed them 1
foot in the ground and used copper pipes as well wacked these 3 feet in the ground
picked these up second hand as well so the setup goes zinc steel
sheet then copper pipe only put in to sets so far getting 0.80 volts at 8.00ma . seem to be getting a
nice amperage but volts still low at the moment had a good amount of rain back here in new zealand
the day before christmas. I had tested each set and was getting 0.95 volts on each set but at the time
had not jumpered each plate so when the ground dries out some more ill post a update.
merry christmas all
Anyone seen this video..interesting..Free Energy Machine claim
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj3bL8Rl7EM
smithandwes:
I just watched the video....it was a bit strange. I guess he did not speak English? I wish he would have outlined a little more about how his device is supposed to work. I have never seen anything like this before. Thanks.
Bill
Anyone that tries to keep a free energy device proprietary will have a lot of proving to do for people to believe it. I mean, if you're going to have something that violates known laws of physics, or at least appears to violate known laws of physics, keeping it to yourself will not work. Nobody will take it seriously because there is always the possibility of it being a trick. Being open about that kind of discovery is the only way to ever get it accepted as real. I think it's a fake, personally. Even Dr. Moray was open about his technology. The only thing he kept secret was his handmade tubes. I wish this guy the best of luck, but it is a wrong move to keep technology like this proprietary. Doing so sends off bells of it being a fake.
@Bill
I got a Craftsman multimeter for xmas! Now I can actually measure things! Ahhh, the simple things in life...
@everyone
I also got 3 magnesium fire starters. So, I have a good bit of magnesium(pure) to play with. Should I sandwich them together and bind them or should I set them side-by-side and make a plate from them? Also, if I were to wrap some cotton fabric around them and then some copper, would it still work since the Earth would only be touching a tiny part of the magnesium? I don't understand how those cells like Stubblefield's work in that manner. I can grasp the concept that it works if the copper is buried separately from the magnesium so there is ground contact on all sides of both, but I can't picture how it works making them into a cell. Anyone care to help me out here?
@ Timmy:
Meters are fun, I'm glad you got one, you will need it.
As far as the mag blocks go, I am not sure. I bound mine together to create more mass (I used plastic tie-wraps) but, it may be better to expose more area to the earth, I don't know. It would be a good thing to try both ways and compare results.
As far as making a cell, I am not sure exactly what you mean. Do you mean a cell where everything is in close proximity as in like a regular battery cell? If this is what you mean, than all you will have is just a galvanic battery which will only give you 1.5 vdc max until the magnesium is used up. (Like any other battery) Sticking the electrodes in the ground a good distance from each other, and aligned properly should allow you to see more volts than just galvanic and hopefully without the deterioration of your electrodes. At one point, I was up in the 2.2 vdc range. If you are talking about the Stubblefield coil, that is a different animal all together. That is a bifilar wound coil with an iron core with cotton, or similar moisture "transparent" material separating the different metals. That is a self-contained cell that works when buried in the ground.
As far as the laws of physics goes, everything I am doing on here for "free energy" or "overunity" complies with the known laws of physics and thermal dynamics. All I am hoping to do is to tap into either unknown energy sources or known but little used energy sources. Kind of like if you had a solar cell 100 years ago. They would think it was magic, or violating physics laws, etc. but all it is doing is converting the energy from the sun into electricity, a then unknown power source. Some of my friends think I am nuts. (they may be right, who knows?) I have tried to explain what I am doing, or trying to do and they laugh. Oh well, I am having fun and learning a lot. It keeps me out of trouble.
Good luck with your experiments.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on December 26, 2008, 03:17:19 PM
@ Timmy:
Meters are fun, I'm glad you got one, you will need it.
As far as the mag blocks go, I am not sure. I bound mine together to create more mass (I used plastic tie-wraps) but, it may be better to expose more area to the earth, I don't know. It would be a good thing to try both ways and compare results.
As far as making a cell, I am not sure exactly what you mean. Do you mean a cell where everything is in close proximity as in like a regular battery cell? If this is what you mean, than all you will have is just a galvanic battery which will only give you 1.5 vdc max until the magnesium is used up. (Like any other battery) Sticking the electrodes in the ground a good distance from each other, and aligned properly should allow you to see more volts than just galvanic and hopefully without the deterioration of your electrodes. At one point, I was up in the 2.2 vdc range. If you are talking about the Stubblefield coil, that is a different animal all together. That is a bifilar wound coil with an iron core with cotton, or similar moisture "transparent" material separating the different metals. That is a self-contained cell that works when buried in the ground.
As far as the laws of physics goes, everything I am doing on here for "free energy" or "overunity" complies with the known laws of physics and thermal dynamics. All I am hoping to do is to tap into either unknown energy sources or known but little used energy sources. Kind of like if you had a solar cell 100 years ago. They would think it was magic, or violating physics laws, etc. but all it is doing is converting the energy from the sun into electricity, a then unknown power source. Some of my friends think I am nuts. (they may be right, who knows?) I have tried to explain what I am doing, or trying to do and they laugh. Oh well, I am having fun and learning a lot. It keeps me out of trouble.
Good luck with your experiments.
Bill
@Bill
Yeah, I am talking about the Stubblefield cells. I just wonder how it works because there would be a good bit of surface area of the wire exposed to the Earth and very little of the iron exposed to the Earth. Just curious about how that works.
My little rant on "free energy" and "overunity" was in response to a video posted a couple posts prior to that. The guy in the video basically said he had a closed system that would never run down but refused to tell how it was done.
I played around with my 2 foot copper pipe & galvanised spike setup and I managed to get 1.052vdc at 1.5mA and moving the spike gave me .890vdc at 3.1mA. I couldn't light an LED using my Joule Thief, but maybe using my magnesium blocks as a replacement for the spike will give something better. It's odd though. Some places gave me 1.035vdc with the spike maybe an inch in the ground, but when I sank it deeper, it would drop to .9 or .8 vdc or less. It's an 8 inch galvanised spike. I would figure more surface area in the Earth would give more voltage. ???
Quote from: timmy1729 on December 29, 2008, 01:25:32 AM
@Bill
Yeah, I am talking about the Stubblefield cells. I just wonder how it works because there would be a good bit of surface area of the wire exposed to the Earth and very little of the iron exposed to the Earth. Just curious about how that works.
My little rant on "free energy" and "overunity" was in response to a video posted a couple posts prior to that. The guy in the video basically said he had a closed system that would never run down but refused to tell how it was done.
I played around with my 2 foot copper pipe & galvanised spike setup and I managed to get 1.052vdc at 1.5mA and moving the spike gave me .890vdc at 3.1mA. I couldn't light an LED using my Joule Thief, but maybe using my magnesium blocks as a replacement for the spike will give something better. It's odd though. Some places gave me 1.035vdc with the spike maybe an inch in the ground, but when I sank it deeper, it would drop to .9 or .8 vdc or less. It's an 8 inch galvanised spike. I would figure more surface area in the Earth would give more voltage. ???
Timmy:
I know this topic is long and hard to find stuff in but, if you go way back, (somewhere) it is explained that the magnetic declination of your areas comes into play. Someone posted a US Geological site that had all of the figures for the US. it was stated on yet another website that we want the angle from the bottom of our carbon rod, to the bottom of our mag. blocks to be the same as the magnetic declination for your area. (the plus material is deeper than the minus) In my case, that was about 60 degrees and I had to approximate that when I planted my electrodes. Obviously, the depth of each electrode is a variable when the distance between them is changed. You can figure a right triangle using the distance and known angles to get close to what you are looking for. Does this really make that much of a difference? I can't say as I did not really try it any other way. This was described by some Russians that were researching the earth's telluric currents.
As far as the iron in a Stubblefield coil not being in much contact with the earth, this is not correct, unless you mean the iron in the core. Don't forget, half of the bifilar windings are made with solid iron wire so you have just as much iron as copper seeing exposure to the earth. Depending on the design of your coil, the core may also come into contact at the top and the bottom as well. The more we all got into this, the more to it there really was. But, any one can stick two metals in the ground and measure voltage at some level which is why I think this is so cool. Did you check out my youtube videos on my earth battery experiments? The links are way back somewhere but just go to youtube and search either "Earth battery experiments" or find my channel. I am on there as 0WildBill0. I made 2 videos on the earth battery stuff I was working on last year.
Bill
Hi all.
Have some one seen this video from
http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4557437/free-energy.geo.avi
(torrent file about 370 M ) invent by Georgia (ex USSR) . I will help to reseed for the the whole week. Can some one understand Georgia language?.some part of them
look like Tesla spark gap and used car radiator, water tap pipe for ground.
Hello Veera and welcome to the Stubblefield thread.
I will go and take a look at the web address you posted and get back.
jim
@ Veera
Im back, that is a long torrent about 370megs in size, far too big for me just now.
One day this stubblefield cell will be cracked open, but until then we just have to plod on and hope for the best.
The stubblefield cell when dormant puts out very low voltage and current, thats why we are all over on Pirates forum on jeule thief web site trying to see how we can get it working with tiny voltages.
jim
Hi Jim .
Thanks and Happy New Year, Happy long Holidays.
Hi,
I don't mean to come the wrong way here, but from the last couple of pages I read (did not read the whole thread) it did not appear there was any discussion on the subject of the subtle energies, which is essential in my humble opinion, in getting the Stubblefield effect. If this is common knowledge and I'm beating the dead horse on the head, then please accept my sincere apology.
My understanding of the subject is that you can't just stick two rods into the ground and hope to replicate what Stubblefield had done back in the days. Stubblefield was a "sensitive" and as such he was looking for Odic currents in the ground, to use Reichenbach's terminology, which he could tap into and convert to usable electricity.
Also, If I recall correctly, Stubblefield himself said that his coil was not a battery, even though the patent examiners insisted calling it a battery. It was more of a converter/interface/initiator between the Earth "subtle" energies and whichever electrical device it connects to.
The least that needs to be done is a bit of dowsing on the area first before you stick the rods into the ground. Find the spots that "feel" right or where the pendulum swings the right way (whichever way that is for you, ask first) and then pierce the Earth. Of course it's not that simple and you really need to research a bit of Radionics before you engage into dowsing.
Lastly, here as an idea to try without needing to develop your "sensitive" skills or dowse the area (if you are not into Radionics):
Obtain two crystals which have vertical axis of symmetry and are mono polar (one tip), ie. http://thmb.inkfrog.com/thumbn/prettyasd/4884-2.jpg=600 . Bury them into the ground right underneath the rods. I guess you will dig a narrow hole, place the crystal first then place the rod on top of it. Whether there's a bit of ground between the rod and the crystal will probably not matter but the rod and the crystal should be on the same vertical axis. You might need to give it some time before if/any effect becomes apparent...
Crystals are foci of Odic currents and if I'm understanding what Stubblefield really did, they should enhance any area that has not been "prospected" for the Odic currents and "proper" spots found the "right" way, through ESP. In time (couple of days/a week) you might see some sort of a result, better than the usual 1.5 V that you get when you stick the rod randomly in the ground.
There's no guarantee this will work, it is just an idea how I would go about it if I had the right environment (I don't since I got dozen floors separating me and the ground). :)
Quote from: amigo on January 02, 2009, 01:52:36 PM
Hi,
I don't mean to come the wrong way here, but from the last couple of pages I read (did not read the whole thread) it did not appear there was any discussion on the subject of the subtle energies, which is essential in my humble opinion, in getting the Stubblefield effect. If this is common knowledge and I'm beating the dead horse on the head, then please accept my sincere apology.
Welcome Amigo
I agree that the Stubblefield coil requires subtle energy of some kind to work properly.
I don't think anyone has any ideas on how to make those subtle energy work for us.
So you have any ideas on how to use these subtle energies?
gary
@ veera,
Thanks for the new year wishes.
PS most of the chaps from this forum are studying up on pirates juel thief forum to see how they can use JT on this forum.
Might be an idea to take a looksee to see what is happenning, eg we are up to trying to get 2 JT worknig on 1 torid.
Interresting stuff.
@ amigo,
Yes, Nathan Stubblefield had a working system, no doubt at all. Unfortunatly he wasnt very liberal with the way he did things so after he died, the towns people got stuck into his stuff, trashing it. Some survived, but it seems not a single cell made it, so we are struggling to replicate his cell.
I agree with your thoughts about the patient office, they just couldnt see this was a different technology so they forced him to call his cell a battery.
Amigo, if you know any thing that we could use, please let us know, any small bit of info may be a key.
About the Rods in the earth, some of us just don't have enough earth, "acerage" to dowse, so what you said about using a "mono" crystal should be a welcome bit of info for us all. I have heard of this crystal being used in "cloud busters" or chemtrail destroyers, although I havent tried it, but I have seen chemtrails over my town in outback australia.
@ gary,
hello my friend, long time no see, maby thats because I have been over on the other forum, lol.
Nice to see you here, I havent forgotten NS stuff, just taking a break whilst Im on the JT forum with bill, jeanna and a heep of newbies.
jim
So we are in the same situation ground wise, since I'm dozen floors off the ground and the only earth I have is the pots my plants sit in. :)
Therefore let's look at some related theory. I have recently spent some time researching the works of Baron Karl von Riechenbach who wrote about subtle energies and Odic currents back in the 19th Century.
I warmly recommend (and above all encourage) everyone to read the following text because it is very informative (I personally found it amusing and you might as well):
http://www.hbci.com/~wenonah/history/odenergy.htm
Don't be shy because it's long, you can come back to, several sittings is fine just keep an open mind.
You will find many similarities between Od and modern day Orgone energy, for example when you read about materials that isolate and conduct Od from Baron Reichenbach's experiments, then recall what Dr. Reich used to create his Orgone accumulators.
I hope this sparks the interest and lights some (virtual) bulbs about connections between things in Nature and great many possibilities that lay ahead. :)
@amigo
Thanks for the link about the book
I tried to download it but it was too big 17megs, I got 20 percent downloaded when their system booted me off, so I will try again later when I get to a broadband connection.
I just might go and post this http address on the JT forum, it seems it could be used there also.
Thanks again Amigo, a good find this one.
jim
Okay guy's ive got two simple schematics :)
The first is what i have doped Avramenko's radio and it uses just 2 OA95 Diodes, a piezoelectric earphone and a ground connection.
When you attach the thing to ground you can hear all stations at the same time. 8)
Ive picked up some real far stations on AM and some local FM stations too.
The germanium plug deliverd about 0.5 volts.
The second is a graetz bridge of 4 1n2148's and this thing deliverd a whopping 1,5 volts :)
One end was connected to ground and the other to my metal bed :D
I was intrested in the signals so i analized the spectrum and there was the "Grid Buzz" dominating the spectrum, but there was also a ton of other suspicious signals, like the early reported "Hiss" that goes like WhOOsh WhOOsh and my bet is that it is lightning, i still need to analize it further.
The nice thing about these setups is that you can actually start experimenting without a local power source :)
They are low cost too.
I am building a portable unit to take it outside for analizing outside environments :)
M.
Hi marco,
isn't it 1N4148 type instead of 1N2148?
rgds, Gyula
good question :P
I will look it up when i get home. :)
@electricme
That page I linked to can't be 17MB, it's only text?! I saved it here as HTML and it's 160KB...
Were you referring to some other link I posted?
Also, here's another interesting book
Otto Rahn - Invisible Radiations - http://www.mediafire.com/?4qemem5nmzn
@-[marco]-
Ah, simple stuff is always the most elegant. :)
I'm afraid if I tried that setup where I live (big city) I'd get lots and lots of signals and it would only skew the results we are hoping to get. But I will try anyways, although I do not have a real Earth ground available...not sure how will that impact everything.
Hi Amigo :)
If you could amplify the signal comming from the 4 diode Graetz bridge you can listen to it with head phones and analyze it on the spectrum analizer.
I am trying to find out if this "Whoosh Whoosh" is everywhere and if it's orgin is lightning.
The lightning strokes are continously Charging up the earth and i this should also work in reverse.
M.
Quote from: -[marco]- on January 05, 2009, 04:43:12 AM
Hi Amigo :)
If you could amplify the signal comming from the 4 diode Graetz bridge you can listen to it with head phones and analyze it on the spectrum analizer.
I am trying to find out if this "Whoosh Whoosh" is everywhere and if it's orgin is lightning.
The lightning strokes are continously Charging up the earth and i this should also work in reverse.
M.
Hmm, would you hook the spectrum analyzer directly into the circuit (physical connection) or would you use an antenna near the circuit to pickup oscillations? What about environment interferences and such, where I live I got radio towers around me with strong FM signals?
The lightning strikes are a very interesting notion, they say over 300 storms at any moment around the planet. That's a lot of energy indeed...
Hi AMigo
I have hooked the circuit directly to the analyzer most of the time.
In some cases i have put the signal trough an amplifier but it is not nessesary.
I have some strong radiostations here too.
M.
Hello all,
I am a new member and trying to get up to speed. I notice this thread started as 'Earth Battery Experiments' and hope I am addressing an appropriate group at Overunity forums or that someone will refer me to a more appropriate thread.
I have a question regarding the inclination angle (dip angle) of the bottom of the two electrodes. If a person at 35.5 deg North latitude with a magnetic inclination of 65.5 deg. draws an imaginary line from the bottom of the more Northerly positive electrode to the bottom of the more Southerly negative electrode, does this form a 65.5 deg angle with the surface of Earth to the South? To gain horizontal distance and prevent electrolytic action, this implies a thin horizontal sheet for the more negative electrode and a long rod for the positive. Attached jpg sketch.
-Greg
@ Greg:
Somewhere in this topic there is a link to the us geolgical survey's site that you plug in you town or zip code and it gives you both the dip angle and the deviation for your area. I just briefly tried to find it but could not. It is here somewhere probably within the 1st 50 pages or so. If i can find it later, i will repost it. Thanks and welcome.
Bill
@ Bill, Jeanna, Local Joe, and others from way back, ;D
Found some cotton insulated copper wire, it was inside a very old Ammeter I found at a local dump out my way in Australia. ;)
OK, there is probably a couple of feet in all, wound on a central bobbin.
The copper wires are wound in parallel, OK, there is 2 layers of cotton insulation, bottom layer is wound from the right (start) to the left.
Top Layer is wound from the left, and goes towards the right.
This bare copper wire would have to have been wound in one direction at a time, then reversed through the cotton winding machine to get it wound in the other direction. ;D
@all,
there has been a view on this NS thread that iron wire was cotton covered/insulated in cotton, but we needed to know how it was done, and that info has not been forthcoming, until now.
If anyone reading this thread, does know more about the process of putting the cotton insulation on a wire, please post that info here.
jim
Photo 0356.jpg = Ammeter with 3 shunts, 2 heavy duty ones in parallel, and 1 sprial light duty one.
Photo 0354.jpg = Close up of cotton insulated wire, both cotton layers, counter wound on bare copper wire.
Photo 0355.jpg = Cotton insulated coil, what it looks like.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Hi all:
I have 3 1.5 v .25 mA leds i parallel light up the six magnesium bars in a planter, anyway I tried the joule thief from the fuji camera and got nothing a regular JT gave me nothing as well, 20 turns of magnetic wire on a cilindricall ferrite core...Thank you for the tip
Bill I am ordering a bigger core but I can't wait to ask more questions I was kind of dissapointed about the JT despite nowing would be like that , interesting enough even jumping from .60 mA up to 1 amp due to a storm the thing doesn't work, I don't know how to recalculate the inductor for an even lower amperage just yet , other than that I will continue with the induction coil , but is so cool to have free electricity even at this low voltage .....any sugestions??
Best Regards
I would not use magnet wire for the primary bifilar windings as the resistance will be too high and you won't get as much power out of it. I use no smaller than 22 gauge on all of mine. (stranded, insulated wire) and many in our JT group have lit leds using the JT off an earth battery. I have not tried the Fuji yet but I think I have a decent chance of getting that to work if I can get my amps up high enough. Try heavier wire on the primary and see what happens. Plus, where you place the electrodes in the ground makes one heck of a difference as it is the telluric earth currents that you want to tap, not just any galvanic action of the dissimilar metals in a pot. And, the alignment of the north/south meridian (NOT magnetic north/south) and the bottom of the electrode angle (matching the dip angle for your area) was the key to me getting my power way up from where I was before.
The type of soil, or how wet or dry does not matter as much we have seen, the key thing is the right materials and the alignments. Otherwise, I could take a bucket of salt water and place my electrodes in it and it will light a bunch of leds until the magnesium was destroyed. This is a regular galvanic battery and NOT an earth battery. The telluric currents are the key. I hope this helps.
Bill
Bill
Thank you for your advice ,is great to know others made it work I've been reading dozens of posts but haven't gotten to that part nor the one about checking on the dip angle for my area I couldn't wait for my order of toroid beads a magnesium rod of considerable dimensions, so Im definitelly trying bigger wires around a radio shack transformer core step down type that is, hopefully this core will give me some results I haven't been able to calculate that angle as per greginthewoods excellent squematics but I do absolutely agree that height and angle all of it plays a very important part but I don't have much ground to play with, amperage or no amperage that's the question, a bedini motor made out of a printer is in order and which in my view would be the topping of an already exciting research.
I will keep posting my results , thanks again for the feedback
Hi
I got put my old car battery in series with my earth battery set up at only 8 volts due to long period of not used it, so with a blue 12 volt light I m discharging it .....yes need a bigger load but dang bunny day is on the way....Tell you what though, the earth battery put double of milliamps from 30 to 60 and voltaje of 1.450 up to 1.5 something , after I disconected the car battery.
No success at lighting up leds with joule thief nor running a small 1.5 volt 25 mA up dc motor ,any ideas??
So begs the question what to do to get the joule thief to work?.
An exciting thing is that Im getting a 1.5 inch 14 inch long magnesium rod to avoid loses in the series connections of my magnesium firestarters, yes by the way amps and voltage increase by wiring this way my arrangement is vertical on plastic angle every mg block adds to the equation the plant pot works for me for is the only way to keep the true magnetic orientation of my set up .
I will try the coil battery at some point and make many if necessary, special trip to wire up a bridge if possible
Best Regards
Wow, can I ask for your source of the mag. rod? Also, how much? I have not been successful in finding a company that would sell me just one. Thank you and, good luck! That rod with the carbon will give you great mA's I am sure.
Bill
Bill
I got on ebay apparently "charles" sales them for 42 bucks which makes sense ,is more expensive to buy piece by piece at walmart, I didnt tell why it was for so hopefully prices stays reasonable, yes companies are thoroughly complicated I hate that, Im quite sure I will get though ma and voltage and I will try longer distances with wire , also going for earth battery I think is cheaper and more practical better technology in it, Sorrry to report that the lead acid car battery died with a 12 volt light bulb the rods were not able to sustain the voltage as claimed by others conection and all replicated. Still trying to get feedback on how to get the Joule to work at this voltage amp with my rods
Have a good one
Heyas:), a little bit off topic, i have been experimenting with telluric currents for a few years on and off, I have 12 high bright leds running, sometimes during the day they go dim for 10 min spells, otherwise there quite bright, best time is around 10.00pm to 5.00am.
the conductors consist of 1 copper pipe at one end of my section, a 3 inch galvanized pipe (in a meter) 50 foot away, a 2 inch galvanized pipe (in a meter) 40 foot away, and finally a 1 inch galvanized pipe also dig in a meter (35 feet away).
the copper pipe i use to reference the respective pipe voltages, these are coupled to a torroid transformer i wound.
on the scope is not much to look at, just a mess of AC signals combined....no radio/transmitter stations nearby :)
the primary on the torroid is 200t tapped from 80 to 200 every 20 turns and single wound
the secondary is bifilar wound 700t, then taken to rectification
torriod size is 80mm dia and 50mm hole.
the taps on the primary are quite necessary to implement as at different times a given pole will yield better results from a different tap.
you can also couple 4-5 ground stakes into various taps to increase the current slightly,
the output voltage varies considerably between 3 and 14v on the secondary, under load (12 leds) usually 2v approx.
i have wound another torroid slighty different, and can combine the 2 rectified secondarys in series, to up the stagnant voltage to avg 20v
anyway enough babble:)
good to see other experimenters doing well here & have enjoyed reading the entire thread
best regards
@ all
I am running TWO Jt's from a simple earth battery of copper pipe and galvanized pipe 11 inches apart . Have been lighting white leds from both of the jt's now for several months . I have a small electrolytic capacitor in parallel with with the earth battery . She light all the time but when it rains the output drops. I am now in the process of experimenting with one Magnesium rod and one carbon rod . reports are that 4.2 volts are attained at 20 foot apart . You want to rectify this output with a Bridge to use the ac mixed up in the output . The Goal is to light 1000 leds . Testing is also being done with 2 volt lead acid batteries and Very Large Super caps as a storage Medium and with control Electronics to only light the Leds at night . Furthermore the results once obtained will more than likely be published in some Major Magazines like scientific American or Green living . etc..
Using a Jt Will be a Viable Source of usable voltage/power from an earth battery . test are being done with the Lay lines Verse out of them . Output is higher on a ley line and true magnetic NS . I await permission to post visual results of Graphs made by Very Expensive Test Equipment bought for The study of this Earth battery and magnetic Flux ..These are real time minute by minute Electronic Measurements comparing two earth batteries 15 foot apart , one in the Magnetic Ley line the other not .
EDIT: ok here is the most current measurements . thanks to Greg at Alternative Systems in the Black hills who is supplying me with the data and parts for this Major Project ,soon to be a reality and a viable Alternative power source Using Gods Green Earth and non polluting Rods . Totally ECO friendly
Gadgetmall
@ All
here is the NEW Earth battery and Parts Sent to me By Greg at Alternative Systems for EarthHaven
.for me to Obtain the results and Goal : theses are Nice Magnesium and carbon rods with leads and Various Electronics for the control and a Know Value of torroids . Nice~~ Look at the super cap and Small Lead acid Battery .Notice on the Graph above that two identical earth batteries except one is in the ley lines and has higher output !!! ;D Both cells are magnetic north . I am setting up mine next week and tuning My special Jt to run at least 500 leds (thats lall i have ) .. the control electronics will consist of a very small solar panel to shut down the circuit to the leds in the day and also provide a regulated voltage to help boost the output of the earthbattery . haven't decided yet to do that . will see how long the cap and or battery charge with just the EB .The Consideration was done to not use cadnium cells due to hazzardus materials that might be released from them them the earth . We want TOTAL ECO FRIENDLY with NO CONTAMINATION . All the materials have been selected to insure no pollution . I have designed My own circuit to shut down the leds and boost the Eb with just a Tiny Solarpanel 5 volts 80 ma CIS and therefor no current will be used from the EB to power the Control Electronics . .
Gadget
Quote from: Pirate88179 on April 10, 2009, 01:15:12 PM
Wow, can I ask for your source of the mag. rod? Also, how much? I have not been successful in finding a company that would sell me just one. Thank you and, good luck! That rod with the carbon will give you great mA's I am sure.
Bill
Bill I have plenty of them and a local source for the carbon and Magnesium . i sell them as an earth battery kit for 55 dollars +freight they are 1/2 inch diameter and 12 inches long . about a pound of magnesium .
Gadget
Hi All, Apologies if I’m a bit of subject, I tried posting as new topic, prob wrong place!, this is my second post on this fascinating site recommended by a regular contributor.
I live on a boat in the UK I run mostly 12 volt systems. The water Pump a Par max 4 model 31620-0292 keep failing, they don’t seem to burn out just stop working. My system consists of 6 Hawker powersafe 12v105f (105amp) power cells a silverline cb20-1 charger set to min 12a. This is charged to a stephill generator putting 220volts of fairly stable modified sine wave power, run for on average 2.5 hours a day. The max draw of the pump is 6amp at 10PSI and fuse rated at 10 amp. I think I need a put a 10 amp Diode in line on the positive, do you think this solve the problem? If so and ideas where I could buy one in the UK I’ve looked on line but to be honest, always best I find, I’m not sure what type of diode I need. Any advice with problem or potential suppliers would be greatly appreciated.
Hi all
OK here is the latest Graph from Alternative Systems Research In the Black Mountains of NC . Showing that the last Graph was not a mistake . The Test was done over and over to be sure the Doused Magnetic Meridian Ley Line's are giving More Power than not !!!! Well its looks like Greg At ASRF has proved that indeed you will get more voltage from rods in the Ley lines .. Stubblefield rediscovered . Now its a matter of Converting that power to storage and then using a JT to run 1000 leds ;) I am also curious as to wheather mass of the electrodes have anything to do with Power . I am going to bury a Magnesium car rim and find out later this week in comparison to a 12 inch magnesium rod .. I will also find out how far apart are the Ley line's 10 feet 20 50 100 200 whatever . Happy EARTH DAY
Gadget
Hi all thought I would add somethink interesting iv found out
about my earth battery setup. using four sets of roofing iron
and copper pipes had my jule thief running with four white leds.
the weeds around the setup were turning into a jungle so
thought id do a bit of gardning i wish i had not now after
pulling those weeds the out put on my earth battery dropped
from a nice 0.95 volts to only 0.88 and the jule thief stopped
working so from now on ill just let those weeds grow ha ha
i will add another set of plates and see if the volts go up again
crossing my fingers back this way one good thing though the
little circuit out of my solar garden light still goes nice and
bright dosent need as much juice.
I find your observation of the outmost importance , for I have the same discoveries in our small garden the more plants my wife grow and place in it the more energy is harvested , say a planter where my rod was lost power as I put it away from the garden then again to rise up at its proximity and the cluster of flowers, also the planter has been on on concrete the whole time now its "planted" on the very same ground as the plants giving me this time a stronger current and voltage on the order of 2.035 volts and 1.03 ma ...still can't make a joule thief work, still trying to find out what winding size and so forth will make it for me . ???
hi there kukulcangod
about getting more current or voltage I have my setup wired in paralel so im getting more current on each plate the size of the corucatted iron sheets are 8 meters 50 cm by 3 meters 70 cm was getting 9.00 ma it's dropped to about 6.00 ma
the jule theif still works if a battery is used I think the circuits they have in the solar garden lights are designed to use a lot less current so thats good for us all have
managed to get four white leds going with the jule thief your right there about using more plates in the ground wish I could find flat sheets of copper back this way as with more surface area on the positve plate would most likely see a big
improvment. also back this way I use about 10 turns on my jule thief just use the standared jule thief circuit this way have also found that the first try I had the white leds I was using would not work i had tryed to use one red and two white leds as thats all I had at the time was a dud had success using all red or all white.
@ All:
Here is my latest earth battery video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEr6-4TeCTA
Here I am lighting seven 10mm, high output leds. (28,500 MCDs each) Each has a forward voltage of 3.5-4.5 volts at 40 mA's. I am using a basic joule thief circuit and 2 supercaps. (10 Farad each)
To see the wiring of this earth battery, you can check out my 2 earlier videos on my new battery set-up.
Thanks.
Bill
So are you charging the supercaps with the JT that's running off your EB? Sorry if the vid explained this I have no sound on this particular comp.
Ys, the caps are empty when I start. I hook the earth battery to the JT circuit and the leds light. While they are lit, the supercaps are also charging as well. I can have them light for, say, 10 minutes, and disconnect the circuit from the EB and the leds stay lit for about 5 minutes or so. That is how I know the caps are charging.
Bill
I am now lighting 100 leds from the earth battery:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaUBxUJrGzY
Bill
Here is a video of me lighting an 18" long 15 watt tube from my earth battery:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fV-xjRy3I4
Bill
Nice Going Bill ! Cool Vids too. The EB research is still going strong over here . I can Light a Green laser up directly from the ground no super caps no Batteries just magnesium and carbon rods and a Little Jt . My Idea is to Illuminate a very long length of plastic clear tubing from the Green laser directly from the earth running At night for trail Lights with the help of a small light sensing Solar panel ....I know you have tried your spiral tube with uv stuff but the laser florescence tubing lights up on its own with Coherent laser light .. My eb output by itself is 1.9 volts at 3.5 ma and drops as the ground gets wet in between the electrodes . It gains when just the electrodes are wet with a glass of water on each . as soon as the water it "connecting the rods it drops until it dries out . Its kind of like the water is shorting them out i think ... More laser i mean later :)
Gadget
Gadget:
Thanks man! I was having a hard time getting it to do this for a while and the supercaps made the difference.
A laser? I never would have thought of that! Great idea man. Glad to hear the EB trail lighting is progressing.
Yes, early on, a lot of folks told me that the EB will only work when the ground is wet and the water is the electrolyte but, I have found the opposite to be true. When it rains heavily, my output is still there but it drops. As it dries out, it goes up and stays up. Still a lot to be explored here on these I believe.
I would love to see what that tubing and laser working looks like sometime. Keep up your good work. Take care.
Bill
@Gadgetmall
SO as i recall the green lasers are the ones taht can burn through paper easly... i have an idea.
remember the small mechincal sterling motors that worked off of heat
....
Could you use the laser powered from the earth battery setup, to heat a modified sterling motor with say a copper sphere with salt or something in it to hold the heat .. that would allow us to transform the electrical to mechanical in an efficient fashion possibly enough to run a small dynamo or alternator
Remove the flame element and add a laser or two aimed at the heating chamber... Im a visual learner i figured this would help put my idea across a lil better
Quote from: kukulcangod on March 29, 2009, 11:27:47 PM
Hi all:
I got it!! finally got my 3.5 leds to light up it is exciting ,thank you for sharing the info my father in law is amazed.....He is a descendant of stephen vail partner of morse ,stephen besides finalizing both the code and the final iteration of the telegraph also experimented with the earth battery, me ? just amazed at the coincidence of getting into this ,Im glad of being part of this , your results are amazing thing is Im working on something else based on my own discovery the earth battery will be crucial info for my research confirming all of this amazing natural effects my thing is related to curing us from certain aflictions think aztec and pyramids they used to gather this energy and it was for a reason.Best Regards
Best Regards
"the last of a line of lasts"
What do you mean?
Bill
Here is my earth battery lighting a 48" tube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kL8ys8m0-4
Bill
Bill
did you further modified the fuji camera circuit? what voltage ,ma are you getting from your battery??
Best regards
Further modify it from what? I modified it from the point where josepino left off. Gadgetmall further modified it by adding a vr and a small cap. I have not done that. I will probably switch to a regular joule thief as our group now has them putting out 1,300 volts from a AA battery.
Right now, my EB puts out 1.95 volts and about 12 mA's.
Bill (If this is not clear, let me know, I am a bit tired and not thinking very well.)
My earth battery lighting 200 leds:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLzdHRovnbo
Bill
Bill:
I wasn't clear myself I apologize, thank you for taking the time to explain I was having a hard time lighting up my 3.5v blue leds and also just to confirm what you already know a capacitor of any value will make my led brighter ,from my EB Im only getting 2.5 ma at the most before the magnesium rod and the walmart blocks I was getting .700ma -.400ma I think then I need one more carbon rod or cells hook up in series to get more ma's .
So you are talking about thirteen hundred volts out a Joule Thief? but that's with and AA battery isn't it? I'm more into getting the fuji circuit to work with the EB , so my 4 supercaps of 2.5 and 10F be here next week so I can get that 40watt neon lamp to work.
I have observed that my EB puts out more ma and voltaje during and after raining its been raining here for 3 weeks georgia that is, my opinion is that we get both effects the galvanic and the telluric currents .
Again your results are remarkable keep up the good work.
The Smithsonian Museum holds the inventions of Alfred Vail(stephen was the brother vicepresident of at&t)whom also experimented with the EB,probably a battery remains among the relics, I know that he was the one finalizing the code and the design of the telegraph, more "practical" matters probably made them forget about the EB.....whom in 1837 partnered with F.B. Morse,he was a mechanical genius, I haven't had the chance to check it out myself(even ancestors despite the trades inherited go in a very different way) despite the fact that im close to his ancestors just a tremendous coincidence ,hopefully this info will bring more light into the subject.
Best Regards
@All
This is the latest Data Graph Showing Difference in Spacing and also the pseudo-sine fundamental frequency with lower frequency bursts from Greg in the Black hill NC c/o ASRF research file. HE analytically overlayed an ideal sinewave, confirmed the test, and did not pursue . ASRF-EC-X22, lower graph. The Test are done using one inch Diameter one foot long Magnesium rod and one Pure carbon rod of equal size . What We have determined with scientific data logging is the output decreases with rain and moisture .Its Like battery terminals shorting out when water gets between them . On the other hand i have done the same test with two glasses of water and noticed when i put the water directly on the rod the amperage increases as does the voltage but when water is put between the rods and the moisture "connects" it drops the current and voltage dramatically . When the Ground drys out then the voltage and amps return. . I have done a 7 day test With My earth battery with dual mag rods and one carbon fiber rod and one pure carbon rod charging a very large Ultra cap(650 farads 2.7 volts) that i sell in My store and it has lit two jts up with several bright leds on and the voltage remaining today the 8th day is Exactly one volt steady. The Amperage is off the scale as these caps when even the slightest charge have enough amps to pop a 10 amp fuse . When fully charged without a Jt and the voltage reaches 2.7 volts the cap can burn lamp wire in half if shorted !! My Next Test will be a week long test with My day night circuit that turns off the Jt in the daytime using a small solar panel rather than a Cadmium photocells these are hazardous to the environment if they break or water washes the cadmium in the ground. . the Advantage of using a solar cell is that if there is any direct light it will be routed to the ultra capacitor as an extra kick . I suspect this setup will run forever but my test will be for 7 days . Anyone interested in My Circuit its posted in Pirates jule Thief thread and if interested in replication i have all the parts in My store and i can post My Schematic here . Just give me a pm .
Gadget
No apology needed.
I want to be clear about something with the leds and the EB. First, our research (on the EB groups and the JT groups) have discovered that leds will light from mostly voltage and it can be ac or dc they don't seem to care. My Fuji circuit powered only by the earth battery puts out about (depending on the EB's mood at the time) 350-400 volts. This is what you are seeing on my videos. Also, supercaps, which I found out about 2 years ago, act like a battery that can charge very fast and hold both volts and mA's (or amps.) So, I can use the 2 volts from the EB to charge a supercap. While it is charging, the mA's are building. When the supercap is fully chasrged, I can run whatever I want from it.
My 650 F cap is due in this week. I will make more videos showing this approach. to me, it is no different from solar charging batteries during the day, and running stuff at night from the batteries except, the supercaps charge up fast and are good for millions of cycles.
That sounds like a really good famly connection you have there. I would be very interested in any informatoin you are able to discover via tis route.
These devices are good, working FE (to me anyway) that need to be explored fully. Thanks for this post.
Bill
I took a scope shot of my plain EB today. Dipped zinc spike and probably gold but I dunno-- from a used cellphone. I will resolder later again. It did not want to take the solder.
It still isn't any higher than last year... maybe lower. 0.664v
but
I did manage to take a scopeshot. at 2.5MHz.
Have a look.
jeanna
@ Jeanna:
Nice job!! As you know, I am very new to this scope business. i think I see as much or as many peaks above the baseline as I do below. So, does this mean that is AC or pulsed DC like we have suspected for some time? 2.5 mHz is pretty high! This is very interesting and useful information. Excellent job!
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on May 27, 2009, 07:37:01 PM
@ Jeanna:
Nice job!! As you know, I am very new to this scope business. i think I see as much or as many peaks above the baseline as I do below. So, does this mean that is AC or pulsed DC like we have suspected for some time? 2.5 mHz is pretty high! This is very interesting and useful information. Excellent job!
Bill
After reading all those lectures from Tesla, I pretty much think it doesn't matter. But for those who insist it matters, if it goes below the line it is ac. If it is half and half like yours and like the one I posted today on the 2 tier jt, it is truly ac all the way. theNOP convinced me that if it doesn't get caught in the cap, it is ac. I am not sure if pulsed dc would get caught in a cap. hmm. anyway, tesla himself made little to no distinction between the two. I kind of trust his opinion....
What I thought was interesting about this one is how much it resembles the one gadget has posted. It is so much less voltage, but the same kind of action. It is way too bad the teluric currents are so low in my back yard. 0.66v won't even start up a jt with a cap. All I can do is read a meter!
thanks Bill,
jeanna
i'm still getting caught up on this thread, so forgive me if this has been covered already.
jim's mag wheels he showed in the jt thread reminded me of this.
if you can get your hands on an early VW bug or super bug block it is mostly magnesium. for those interested, magnesium isn't commonly used on engine blocks because it reacts badly with most coolants used, causing corrosion. bug engines were air cooled. AS21 and AS41 are the blocks.
the cam covers on dodge vipers are magnesium but you can find them on commonplace vehicles as well like the ford triton 4.6l used in f-150's. cylinder head covers on most audi v8's are magnesium too.
love the thread, hope to have an EB setup at the lake cabin soon.
Here is a video of me running a One magnet No Bearing Bedini Motor from my Earth battery and a 650 Farad 2.7 volt supercap:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rauOlhNK0iY
Bill
Inspired by Bill's video, and aerticKnu=ight's reply about the 2.4MHz... I took a new reading this evening.
The scope said 2.5MHz and 21.2mV
The other day the multimeter said 0.664v tonight it said 0.000v. hmmm. I checked the contacts, hmmm.
Then I went under the tree where the 2 copper pipes have been planted for well over a year. The voltage difference between these similar pipes on the dmm is 0.023vdc. well that is pretty close to what the scope claims for the ac peak to peak at 2.5MHz. on 2 dissimilar probes.
hmm.
Scope shot follows..
jeanna
@ Jeanna:
Great job with your portable scope there. From what you have reported, as well as others, it appears these EB's have a mind of their own for both frequency and output. Soon, I will scope mine and see what happens. Nice work.
Bill
Thanks Bill,
What I am wondering is if that bit with the 2 similar metals is the AC/Random Current in the earth. If that is the number the scope is picking up over the level the dmm picks up, it might just be the true ac of my back yard.
Yes, the other day I saw 0.664volts on the dmm, but the scope saw something similar to this... something in the mV range at 2.4MHz that day.
It isn't enough samples to make it a rule, but I am going to test this a few more times.
I got some germanium transistors today from the gadget. I tried one out on the breadboard with the Berry. ooooweee. It is nice to have it start sooo low.
Now, I need to make some good probes for my EB. 0.000v is pretty darn low if you ask me! ;D
jeanna
Jeanna and All
The discovery of 2.5Mhz on the EB if of major importance. It has been a long time since my basic electronics circa 1957, but you can do many things with AC.
Make a tunable series resonant circuit and a parallel resonant circuit. Make them tunable around the 2.5 Mhz range probably with an old variable inductor used in old ham transmitters. Or, maybe a variable capacitor out of an old radio?
A series resonant circuit will amplify the amps of the ac wave and a parallel resonant circuit will amplify the volts of the ac wave. The multiplication factor is limited by the Q of the circuit. One way to get Q up is low resistance wire. Some of the old variable inductors used high silver content wire. These can be had on Ebay.
The multiplication factor normally can be anywhere from 50 to 200 times the input voltage or amps. That means instead of working with .6 volts you can be working with 30 to maybe 100 volts?
Connect the series res circuit to one leg of the EB and see if the amps is multiplied?
Put the parallel circuit across the two legs of the EB and see if the volts are multiplied. Maybe the two could be mixed together somehow with two EB's and get a significant gain of power. With higher voltage, you can now extract the power through a standard full wave bridge rectifier instead of trying to capture small amounts of voltage with a JT?
A resonant circuit will work like an energy pump. As each cycle of the earth energy hits the circuit it gets rebounded back much the same as pushing a swing to get it higher and higher. Maybe this is how Stubblefield did it. In some of the old photos it shows the cords are not straight, but long coils (inductors) of cotton insulated wires This is connected with the capacitance of the EB. Tuning could be as simple as uncoiling some of the coils on one end of the wire.
Just some ideas that might work?
Tishatang
Hi Tishatang,
Thank you for that thoughtful reply.
I think I will copy your reply and study it since I need to learn a bunch of practical things before I could put those pieces together.
I would do all except the full bridge part since my interest is to take advantage of ac and learn about it at the same time. I am not interested in rectifying it back into dc as I believe that creates a limit to what can be used. - not that I know how, but it is what I am exploring.
--
On the N Stubblefield topic, you might like to read what I said in a post about 2 months ago on pirates stubblefield thread. It is long and I won't repeat it here. Briefly, I think he made a galvanic battery augmented by earth currents that charged a joule thief which was switched on and off by a spark gap into the ball that is often shown at the top of his devices. He always seems to have 2 devices connected together.
thank you,
jeanna
Hi everybody,
I fixed the loose connection today. I have 0.818v on the EB with unknown shiny yellow metal (au?) from thrift store cellphone on North + and dipped zinc nails on South (-).
I took some scope shots and If I get it all on this post they go from farthest away (lowest resolution) to closest and highest resolution. I took a movie but it is 885K so too big for here.
jeanna
Sorry about the straw hat. ;)
What I think is so interesting about this as well as the joule thief scope shots is that the waves repeat their pattern at different resolutions. This must be harmonics. I cannot think of another explanation.
So, the "lowest res", the one that is 500khz between those markers might just be the fundamental for the one at 2.2Mhz... I do not know.
BTW, I did not adjust the markers for each picture. The scope says, for instance, 2.2Mhz between the markers and that includes whatever is shown between them.
I took a movie which has a lot of straw hat but shows the progression from lowest to highest. I may try to find a place to upload it and get you the link.
I uploaded both of them here
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=278 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=278)
and here
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=279 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=279)
I hope the upload worked and you can see them.
They are avi files from my camera.
quicktime opens avi's on my computer.
jeanna
@Jeanna
Your last scope shots show what is a classic radio carrier wave being modulated by another wave (voice, music, data?).
I now suspect your leads from the scope are acting as an aerial and picking up a standard broadcast AM station. 2.5 Mhz is near the top of the AM radio range. Take a portable radio to your EB site and see if there is a strong station coming in at the 2.4-2.5 Mkz range? If there is, I suspect your scope is picking it up. If there is no strong station, try and put some kind of Faraday shield around the scope, leads and EB and see if that eliminates the AC signal. Maybe you could take an old microwave oven to the site and put most of the leads and scope into it and take your readings? If the readings go down, suspect that the in your area is some kind of radio transmitter nearby. If no change, than more likely the AC is from the EB which is good news.
Here is chart of radio freq band off the web:
-----------------------------------
" by xmatt Sat Apr 28 2001 at 21:52:43
The radio spectrum is divded into several "bands" which were, to the best of my knowledge, defined at an international conference on radio communication in 1959.
The bands, and their uses as best I know are as follows:
Frequency Nomenclature Uses
10 - 30 kHz Very low frequency (VLF) ?
30 - 300 kHz Low frequency (LF) ?
300 - 3000 kHz Medium frequency (MF) Commercial AM radio
3 - 30 MHz High frequency (HF) shortwave radio, citizen band radio, some amateur radio (ham) operations
30 - 300 MHz Very high frequency (VHF) commercial FM radio, commercial broadcast television,
marine VHF radio, some ham operations
300 - 3000 MHz Ultra high frequency (UHF) commercial TV (channel 14 and up), cellular phones,
analog cordless phones (900 MHz), two-way radios (government/civil)
3 - 30 GHz Super high frequency (SHF) SETI, Experimental
30 - 300 GHz Extremely high frequency (EHF) Experimental
300 - 3000 GHz Tremendously high frequency (THF) Experimental "
----------------------
The encouraging thing is that radio interference is usually in the microvolt range and not the millivolt range. So, looks like something positive is going on.
Tishatang
@all,
As this is the NS thread I will post my new discovery here, which relates to my Earth Battery.
Just a bout a half hour ago I happened to go into my kitchen where I have my EB setup via leads.
Connected to the outside leads is a 55 Farad SC which has been under EB charge for a couple of days.
Counnected to this setup is a CRO, a multimeter and a single 1 watt Luxon Star LED.
Just now I saw my 1 Watt Luzon Star LED, being lit up by my earth battery.
To my knowledge, this is the very first time a 1Watt Luxon Star LED has ever been lit by a Earth Battery.
The proof is in the 3 tiny weeny videos.
Please excuse the over exubiance, I was very excited lol.
I just checked the size of the 3gp file, it is too big to post here, ohhh no.
jim
@all
Actually there are many Ac signals mixed up in a good earth battery as logged by Greg at arsf . The most can be picked up at 20 feet apart . carbon to the north . In a Magnetic LEY line . Ley Lins are about 10 feet apart and move thru out the day .If you can Make a Dousing rod from some stiff copper wire and fin water you have hit a ley line . Water Follows the Magnetic Ley .
Bill you got a good one there . Is your Carbon north ? I bet it is .
I have carbon and magnisium rods of all sizes now here is a picture of a few .This is pure carbon in the first two pics and made just for me and you .
@Jim / Yea ! You see the Magnetic Flux Increase and light a powerfull led . that is something . My 1 Watter i just got won't light at all . it takes over 3 volts :( . Thats fantastic Flux you got there .I wish you had a logger so you see when it repeats , It also might have something to do with solar flares shifting our magnetic Ley . Cool . have you Buried that rim ? I am trying to cut the tire off mine . I came it sweating like a pig drenched . can't take it no more today . I did move My rods and looked at the Magnesium and see how much it ate up . a tiny bit on the end . i reset the rods again and got 1.7 volts at 5 ma today so far . . I am using a germanium diode now to test the charge on the ultra cap . Also when you get telluric current less degradation occurs on the magnesium or negative electrode you have to have Two Dissimilar Metals to see any good voltage and the deeper you go the more you see .
Albert
Quote from: tishatang on June 05, 2009, 01:10:24 AM
@Jeanna
Your last scope shots show what is a classic radio carrier wave being modulated by another wave (voice, music, data?).
I now suspect your leads from the scope are acting as an aerial and picking up a standard broadcast AM station. 2.5 Mhz is near the top of the AM radio range. Take a portable radio to your EB site and see if there is a strong station coming in at the 2.4-2.5 Mkz range? If there is, I suspect your scope is picking it up.
NADA
In fact there is one very weak station at about half or 1200k which I can hear but full of static.
This could be the first harmonic of that.
Today the waves look different.
QuoteIf there is no strong station, try and put some kind of Faraday shield around the scope, leads and EB and see if that eliminates the AC signal.
um no, the whole thing is 25 feet long.
They may be picking up a station, but I was under the tree taking a scopeshot of the cu to cu pipes and there happens to be a stubblefield generator planted there.
I put the lead on the Fe wire and on my way with a lead to the cu wire I picked up a very big signal... But not all the time. It is not a constant wave with carrier wave that showed there, but something else, maybe. I am not a radio guy, so I know I do not know.
I live near a military installation and there may be a bunch of waves from their stuff too.
Quote
...in your area is some kind of radio transmitter nearby. If no change, than more likely the AC is from the EB which is good news.
----------------------
The encouraging thing is that radio interference is usually in the microvolt range and not the millivolt range. So, looks like something positive is going on.
Tishatang
@All,
Here is a pic I took of the scope connected to the NS generator giving us the waves of whatever it is in the air and on the ground here. ;)
jeanna
@ Jim:
Good going man!! A 1 watt led lit from an EB!! This is incredible. I can't wait to see who runs what next. These caps really opened the door in my opinion. Can you post the videos on youtube? Then just post a link here like I do. Nice going.
@ Gadget:
Yes, carbon to the north. I am using the North/south meridian as close as I can figure it to be for my area. Those are some great rods you have there. I wish I had more room to experiment.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on June 05, 2009, 03:17:49 PM
@ Jim:
Good going man!! A 1 watt led lit from an EB!! This is incredible. I can't wait to see who runs what next. These caps really opened the door in my opinion. Can you post the videos on youtube? Then just post a link here like I do. Nice going.
@ Gadget:
Yes, carbon to the north. I am using the North/south meridian as close as I can figure it to be for my area. Those are some great rods you have there. I wish I had more room to experiment.
Bill
Your setup is Ideal . Have you tried to recharge that cap since you discharge it and is it still recharging to over 2 volts ? I Don't Get that kind of recharging that fast and it don't charge over 1.3 volts here . . Or at least the spot they are stuck in . I did try the rods 100 feet away and got 1.9 volts but its too far to run a wire to the house where i want the power so until i find a 150 foot drop cord i can chop up i'll live with the charge i get now . Its still very usable .
@Bill, Gadget and Jeanna,
Nice of you all to thank me, it was an amazing experience, but it was just a fluke I saw it.
Quote from: Pirate88179 on June 05, 2009, 03:17:49 PM
@ Jim:
Good going man!! A 1 watt led lit from an EB!! This is incredible. I can't wait to see who runs what next. These caps really opened the door in my opinion. Can you post the videos on youtube? Then just post a link here like I do. Nice going.
@ Gadget:
Yes, carbon to the north. I am using the North/south meridian as close as I can figure it to be for my area. Those are some great rods you have there. I wish I had more room to experiment.
Bill
I have the oppersate to you Bill, plenty of room, but carn't access carbon or mag rods lol.
Back to my EB.
Since that video, the LED has been off, and it hasnt even glimmered at all, but the EB is still putting out juice..
I have been sitting here and thinking about this, and I think I know what occurred.
The SC had been on the earth battery all last weekend and every day, but there was no load on the whole EB circuit.
Early that afternoon, I was in the back yard and I setup a second EB there.
(I plan to set up a couple more later on today)
To do this I took my analog Earth Current meter outside (I made it from an old engine analyser moving coil movement), and to get the best placeing I kept looking at the meter as I choose different spots.
I noticed something that I hadnt seen before.
To get one of the rods out of the earth I had to swing it backwards and forwards, lasy me had left a meter connection on the aluminion rod, I noticed the needle on the meter would swing backwards and forwards at each swing.
The deeper the rod went, more energy was produced, the faster I did this, the more vilent the meter needle swung.
I did this to almost position of the rod as I was trying to find the best final place for the rod.
I was outside for a good 3 hours at least mucking about.
OK, all this time back in the house, the ends of the lead in wires from the earth battery were connected to my 55Farad sc.
I think the wild swinging gave my Super Cap an extra cherge which topped it off, and later, after I connected the !1 Watter LED, (it did not light up stright away, but it lit up several hours later.
When the SC discharged, the LED went out.
All afternoon I was swapping Earth Batteries wires in the house, so somewhere there is a combination of what I did, and stumbled on the right connection, which so far I havent managed to do again.
I remember I had 2 x 1N5408 (1000v 3amp) diodes connected up (which I mentioned to you Bill when I spoke to you on the phone), but havent a clue how they were arranged, dum uh.
At the present time the same 1 watt LED is lit up by my special JT, the one with the 4 parallel secondary windings, there are 3 that are not connected to the LED.
So Im a bit reluctant to post anything on the YouTube just yet, until I am certain of its working, I once was caught out, and I just want to be really sure this time.
jim
Here is a video I made tonight of my earth battery and Fuji Joule Thief circuit lighting 400 leds:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agqKEed7AOI
It is not a great video but, remember I am using a $50.00 video camera on all these videos.
@ Jim:
I still believe that, when placed under a load, the EB will respond in kind and put more out....for a while anyway. Stubblefield indicated the same thing and I have seen it happen here. I will try to find you a source there for the rods you really need to make this really crank up. Good going Jim.
Bill
@Bill
Excellent video Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on June 07, 2009, 02:07:42 AM
Here is a video I made tonight of my earth battery and Fuji Joule Thief circuit lighting 400 leds:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agqKEed7AOI
It is not a great video but, remember I am using a $50.00 video camera on all these videos.
@ Jim:
I still believe that, when placed under a load, the EB will respond in kind and put more out....for a while anyway. Stubblefield indicated the same thing and I have seen it happen here. I will try to find you a source there for the rods you really need to make this really crank up. Good going Jim.
Bill
I have been racking my brains so much they are worn out, lol, in regards to my Earth Battery, never mind the answer is just hiding from me just now.
Bill, you have done really well with your EB, I am wondering just what you might be able to do with it next.
If I remember, you have 2 identical Super Caps, try this for me please.
Put the 1st SC in the EB and charge it for 1 day. Remove it after 24 hours
Then put the second SC in the circuit and recharge this one.
After the next 24 hours, remove that SC, then connect both SC in series, you should have double the volts, but just the same amps to play with.
Once again Bill this is a good EB video.
jim
@Gadget
I have only just realised you posted some words for me here, sorry mate.
Quote from: gadgetmall on June 05, 2009, 03:07:16 PM
@all
Actually there are many Ac signals mixed up in a good earth battery as logged by Greg at arsf . The most can be picked up at 20 feet apart . carbon to the north . In a Magnetic LEY line . Ley Lins are about 10 feet apart and move thru out the day .If you can Make a Dousing rod from some stiff copper wire and fin water you have hit a ley line . Water Follows the Magnetic Ley .
Bill you got a good one there . Is your Carbon north ? I bet it is .
I have carbon and magnisium rods of all sizes now here is a picture of a few .This is pure carbon in the first two pics and made just for me and you .
@Jim / Yea ! You see the Magnetic Flux Increase and light a powerfull led . that is something . My 1 Watter i just got won't light at all . it takes over 3 volts :( . Thats fantastic Flux you got there .I wish you had a logger so you see when it repeats , It also might have something to do with solar flares shifting our magnetic Ley . Cool . have you Buried that rim ? I am trying to cut the tire off mine . I came it sweating like a pig drenched . can't take it no more today . I did move My rods and looked at the Magnesium and see how much it ate up . a tiny bit on the end . i reset the rods again and got 1.7 volts at 5 ma today so far . . I am using a germanium diode now to test the charge on the ultra cap . Also when you get telluric current less degradation occurs on the magnesium or negative electrode you have to have Two Dissimilar Metals to see any good voltage and the deeper you go the more you see .
Albert
Thanks Albert, you have some good shops in USA, a lot more to pick from than here.
OK I been reading what you have said here, and taking it all in, your right I need a drum recorder, to have some thing I can sink my teeth into, not just theory, I need a drum recorder, setup for a week, and record the amplitudes/waves, mabe a preamp connected to a set of rods will suffice for the pickup, and pass the output into a amplifier, to drive a solonoid on a BIC pen attatched to a rod, and a drum which makes 1 RPM in 24 hrs.
I havent burried the rims yet, tooo much hard yakka, itl get done when I get fed up enough lol.
OK this is for the boffins, I had another idea, grief said someone.
I'm sitting here and thinking about something you mentioned,you pulled your magnesium rod and seen it had a little bit missing, welllll find a small anode that is more sensitive to corrosion, and attatch that to the bottom of the Magnesium rod.
Tomorrow I'll try that water dowsing thingy.
jim
Jim:
Thanks for your kind words on my latest video. Yes, I have 2 10 farad sc's. I can short them, and place one on the EB and it will be fully charged in less than an hour. I have hooked them in parallel to increase amps and series to increase voltage, either way works fine. That why I used them in parallel when I ran the Fuji the first time. I did not want higher volts as that might fry the Fuji so, I need more grunt and got it.
I have to say those 10F caps which I used to think were huge storage devices, now seem like small toys compared to Gadget's 650F cap I am playing with now. I hope you can get one of these sometime Jim.
Thanks again for watching my videos and commenting. I really do appreciate that.
Bill
@ Pirate88179
Have you run a test where you completely discharge the 640 F cap and the see how fast the earth battery can recharge it to 1 or 2 volts?
I find it hard to believe that your EB is providing enough power to charge such a big cap in a few days.
Xee2:
A few days? This cap will charge up in a matter of hours, not days. Yes, that is from shorted out 0 energy in the cap. My guess from what I have seen is maybe 6 hours, give or take. I will look into this more and post the result where I actually time it.
Bill
Pirate:
On that camera, could you give me some specs as to its brand and model. I am impressed with the output. I bought one and it looks like I am filming from the back woods somewhere its so far away. Cant do a close up for squat.
thay
@ Pirate88179
Quote from: Pirate88179 on June 08, 2009, 12:19:45 AM
This cap will charge up in a matter of hours, not days.Bill
Wow! That EB must be generating a lot of current. Thanks.
Quote from: Thaelin on June 08, 2009, 02:55:44 AM
Pirate:
On that camera, could you give me some specs as to its brand and model. I am impressed with the output. I bought one and it looks like I am filming from the back woods somewhere its so far away. Cant do a close up for squat.
thay
Sure. It is the Traveler 5MP HD Digital Video Camera. If you have the same, or similar model, there is a macro switch on the right side of the lens as viewed from behind the camera as you are using it. One way is macro for close-up, the other way is for distance which with my lens is anything over like 4 feet.
Now that you mention it, I just realized I videoed my 400 led vid with the macro switch on which may easily explain why the light is cut down and the leds in the distance (about 6 feet) look out of focus. Damn, I learn something new every day.
Let me know if your is this one and I can tell you a few things I have learned about it. It really is the best bang for the buck camera I have seen I just don't like it for low light conditions but, maybe if I had the macro switch in the correct position.......
Bil
Quote from: xee2 on June 08, 2009, 03:14:21 AM
@ Pirate88179
Wow! That EB must be generating a lot of current. Thanks.
It really isn't. I believe the secret is these supercaps. I think the energy, as seen in some of the scope shots posted by Jeanna and Jim, spikes here and there...comes and goes, ebbs and flows...and I believe these caps charge to the highest volts and current they are exposed to. It is hard to explain since I don't really understand all about it but I think these caps fill with whatever the EB can put out at various levels and then the cap gives it back what we need when we need it. I am getting much more out of the caps than the EB could ever keep up with alone. Of course, that means I will empty the cap eventually so I need bigger and many more caps, ha ha.
Bill
@ Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on June 07, 2009, 03:55:08 PM
Jim:
Thanks for your kind words on my latest video. Yes, I have 2 10 farad sc's. I can short them, and place one on the EB and it will be fully charged in less than an hour. I have hooked them in parallel to increase amps and series to increase voltage, either way works fine. That why I used them in parallel when I ran the Fuji the first time. I did not want higher volts as that might fry the Fuji so, I need more grunt and got it.
I have to say those 10F caps which I used to think were huge storage devices, now seem like small toys compared to Gadget's 650F cap I am playing with now. I hope you can get one of these sometime Jim.
Thanks again for watching my videos and commenting. I really do appreciate that.
Bill
Thats quite allright Bill, I enjoy see your YouTube videos on your NS and JT research.
excellent mate.
jim
@all,
Today I decided to do something, that no-one has done to my knowledge in the last couple of years on this NS forum.
I decided to make one of those Stubblefield Composit Earth Batteries. ;D
I traced a circle on the copper plate and the steel plate, then cut them out with my trusty tinsnips.
The hole is doug, the disks fit snuggly.
Tomorrow it will be assemble time, due to the lack of daylight.
Here are a few photos.
Help needed with this, I need to ask some questions later.
0884 = The hole
0873 = Coppersheet with 10 1/2" dinner plate as the former
0877 = Starting the cut in the copper sheet
0880 = Drawing the disk onto the steel sheet
0882 = Beginning the cut in the steel plate (thin steel)
0884 = Last of the cutting (until next time)
0885 = Both disks, what they look like flat on the ground
0886 = How this composite battery should look like, just the two disks
hmmm this is the profile, last photo
jim
@Bill,
It won't be long before you are able to run all those LEDs for 24 hours 7 days a week.
Quote from: Pirate88179 on June 08, 2009, 04:36:34 AM
It really isn't. I believe the secret is these supercaps. I think the energy, as seen in some of the scope shots posted by Jeanna and Jim, spikes here and there...comes and goes, ebbs and flows...and I believe these caps charge to the highest volts and current they are exposed to. It is hard to explain since I don't really understand all about it but I think these caps fill with whatever the EB can put out at various levels and then the cap gives it back what we need when we need it. I am getting much more out of the caps than the EB could ever keep up with alone. Of course, that means I will empty the cap eventually so I need bigger and many more caps, ha ha.
Bill
Reading this you are able to charge your SC in less than an hour, (wicked that), ok if you had a timing device that could automatically switch between 3 caps, working on a rotating cap basis, then thats it.
have 2 caps on the EB charging, the other is discharging, at the end of the hour, it is switched back to the EB, then next in line is switched through to the JT etc.
jim
@all,
OK, I'm looking for ideas on what to use to assemble this thing.
How much spacing is the best between plates.
How deep should it be put in the ground.
I have 4 of 1/4" x 2 and 3/4" long, nylon bolts, but three might be better,adjustment wize.
Instead of using the center hole mount, I was thinking of using the above bolts.
I was thinking of either soldering a wire to each disk or driling a hole and fasten the lead by a small bolt and nut assembly.
jim
It takes 3 or more days at my 2volts 1.23ma to charge to supercaps of 2.5volts 10 farads that is in parallel mode , series I just started volts go up much faster and I have now 4 supercaps of same capacity in series I will check in the morning 5 am so five hrs later that is to see how much the charged.....exciting! , the idea of the rotating supercaps sounds brilliant someone proposed the same for the bedini generator to constinuously do the same with its batteries don't know if someone ever done it, I do remember seen it years ago in bedinis old site , hopefully you electronic gurus will help us out on this one I m not an expert at adapting diagrams probably will take me weeks if Im lucky so in exchange I will post pictures from my wife's next trip to washingtong .......They are going to the smithsonian !! I will be working :'( .....So I asked her to look for her descendant's(Alfred Vail) inventions /artifacts to try to find out if he left an example of an earth battery!! ......I can't believe the coincidence she was invited to the trip so Im trying to convince them to go there ........But is my goal as well for whenever I have the time .......So Bill and all thanks to your efforts and intelligence I get to put togheter in the future hundreds of tiny "fireflies" made out of small leds programed to behave as such ......That you can find in "instructables" website if interested , the program in the circuit lasts up to 5 months so her garden will be a very interesting place in the next days a lot of welding and researching about those circuits cause only one Jar is considered, thing is I want at least 400 like you Bill, distributed strategically in green her favorite color and in blue my favorite since it is the color of Bionergy as well........It will remaind me of the light that will guide me back home .....It will be my gift of love to and expecting mother of our first child....It remainds me of Manhattan in beautifull happy days of december full of lights.
Great Job guys Best Regards
Quote from: electricme on June 08, 2009, 07:11:02 AM
@all,
OK, I'm looking for ideas on what to use to assemble this thing.
jim
Hi jim,
this is not about how to assemble it, but instead a reminder that we found that a greater separation like 12 feet made a better eb.
Not a galvanic, but something that used the teluric currents.
This design seems pretty straight galvanic, which is fine, especially if the microbes of the earth provide the electrons to the Fe that are lost in the galvanic currents exchange.
Do you remember when I made the pots of cement? I was trying to make a separation because we could not get a series connection to work. If I remember it right, it only added about 0.1v to the 0.9 volts I was getting. So, yes it added, but not very much. I did not have much separation either... maybe 4 feet from neg to cement pot to copper pos.
I wish you good luck with this.
jeanna
@Jeanna,
Quote from: jeanna on June 09, 2009, 02:15:04 AM
Hi jim,
this is not about how to assemble it, but instead a reminder that we found that a greater separation like 12 feet made a better eb.
Not a galvanic, but something that used the teluric currents.
This design seems pretty straight galvanic, which is fine, especially if the microbes of the earth provide the electrons to the Fe that are lost in the galvanic currents exchange.
Do you remember when I made the pots of cement? I was trying to make a separation because we could not get a series connection to work. If I remember it right, it only added about 0.1v to the 0.9 volts I was getting. So, yes it added, but not very much. I did not have much separation either... maybe 4 feet from neg to cement pot to copper pos.
I wish you good luck with this.
jeanna
Thank you, I think I am about 15 feet away from my other EB.
Tomorrow morning I will measure the distance to be sure.
jim
@all,
Here is the second and final jpgs of the making of my EB, to see the previous set, go back 1 page, TA
0889 = Drilling the Positive copper plate
0890 = Drilling the Negative steel plate
0891 = Making sure the nylon bolt will fit the hole drilled
0899 = Copper electrode needs a copper connector, steel needs a steel connector
0900 = Both disks completed, holes drilled, connectors attatched
0901 = EB cell is assembled, leads attatched
0903 = EB cell is seen side on view
0909 = Lead out wires go underground to fence.
In the summer the mower goes over the lot with ease
0912 = The EB cell is in the ground, a last view and checkup
0913 = All done
A 2-D view of Pirate88179's future. Off the grid.
LOL!
Can we all see it folks.
LOL ;D ResinRat,
He should be OK as long as he doesn't drink the coke, right? ;D ;D
jeanna
@ResinRat2
I loved the CAD cartoon, its the 1st 1 seen so far.
An two SC at that lol ;D
Well done chum
@Jeanna,
My 2 EB are 17 feet 3 inches away from each other.
@all,
I have enough copper sheet left over to make 4 more 10 1/2" disks, if I squeeze it I should be able to get 12" disks but will have to go outside and see later on.
It's cold outside, been snowing down in the snowies, glad I don't live there, burrrr.
jim
Have any of you experimented with a vertical orientation as opposed to your horizontal ones?
I think it's like using a 30' ladder in the street to climb up onto the curb: you are only getting a 6" vertical rise.
Take that same 30' ladder and prop it up against a building that is 25' high and you can get onto the roof. That is a much more efficient use of the ladder.
How about suspended in the air? have any of you tried setting up your units in the air as opposed to in the ground? How about in a pond?
When experimenting, you have to use your imagination to think of as many variations as possible to determine which things may or may not be causing certain results.
@Yortuk Festrunk
I have a set of earth batteries inter twined, this was/is my first one.
All electrodes are plates, not rods except for the carbons I pulled from 6v lantern batteries.
The Negative is a steel plate, 20" 1/2" x 10" see pic I have more than 2 left.
The 1st Positave is a Copper plate 21" 1/2" x about 8"
The 2nd Positive is Carbons x 5 (qty) x 3" long each.
Both positaves share a common Negative.
jim
0914 = My EB setup, this EB has Vertical plates for Copper, Lead and Steel
0915 = Positave sides of EB, Pink wires (were red) go to Carbons (5 of them)
0916 = Single steel plate, vertical Negative (shared negative)
0917 = Lead Disk 12"
0918 = 2 steel plates, I have more stashed someware, just dont know where right now.
these are the ones I have setup in my original EB.
The black/shadow is me, fat old fart I am, lol
The white vertical extension lead used to be orange, connects to the EB and takes the "juice" inside my house, carnt see any sence of frying my head off in summer or freezing to death in winter.
voltage has risen on my new EB disks from .771v to .808v since late yesterday afternoon
jim
@ Jim:
Those are good readings my friend. This site and the calculator there will help you increase them:
http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomagmodels/IGRFWMM.jsp
This helps you calculate the magnetic deviation and dip angle for your location. It is international and not just the USA.
The separation of the electrodes is important to getting more volts and amps out of them but does not fix the series hook-up problems we have seen. The further apart your electrodes, the better it gets. Now, I don't know how this translates with the single disk approach which you are now using. One way to tell.
Keep up the great work down there....or up there.....ha ha.
Bill
Quote from: electricme on June 09, 2009, 05:28:01 AM
@Jeanna,
Thank you, I think I am about 15 feet away from my other EB.
Tomorrow morning I will measure the distance to be sure.
jim
ANSWER is 17feet 3 inches.
@PIrate,
Thankyou Bill for the link and the kind words.
This afternoon I decided to shuv one of those mag wheel rims in the ground, ummm it dosn't look promising, and the REB I put in yesterday has stopped its output, mabe I had betta pullout the wheel rim tomorrow and see if this is the problem ha ha
Jim
Quote from: Pirate88179 on June 10, 2009, 01:48:39 AM
This helps you calculate the magnetic deviation and dip angle for your location. ..
Bill
Hi Bill,
I wonder if you could explain how to use this? Or is there a quick link?
It tells me my decl is 16 deg 55 min east. I figure that is 17 east of the north on my compas, right?
Now, it also says
18,800 nT North
5.700 nT East
Those look like magnetic field amounts to me.
What do yours say?
Are you in a much more magnetic area than I am?
Thank you for that link.
jeanna
Jeanna:
I tried to copy and past me results here but it did not work.
My declination is 3 degrees to the west so i have to move 3 degrees to the east for the true meridian.
My inclination is 65 degrees and this is the angle that should be formed by the bottom of your electrodes with the north being the deepest. Of course, this angle varies with the distance between the electrodes so you have to also change the depth to keep this correct if the separation value is changed.
My north nt value (whatever that is) is 21,296
My horizontal intensity is 21,334
My vertical component is 47,595
And my total field is 52,158.
When I used this I was mainly concerned with the alignment with the meridian and the dip angle for the bottom of the electrodes. It make a huge difference. I can repost the link to where all of this is explained if you, or anyone wants me to.
Bill
Quote from: electricme on June 09, 2009, 10:15:51 PM
@Yortuk Festrunk
I have a set of earth batteries inter twined, this was/is my first one.
All electrodes are plates, not rods except for the carbons I pulled from 6v lantern batteries.
The Negative is a steel plate, 20" 1/2" x 10" see pic I have more than 2 left.
The 1st Positave is a Copper plate 21" 1/2" x about 8"
The 2nd Positive is Carbons x 5 (qty) x 3" long each.
Both positaves share a common Negative.
jim
I'm not sure if this is an answer to my question. Maybe you misread it.
My question is for any of you who have been working on this. So feel free to answer.
Quote from: Yortuk Festrunk on June 09, 2009, 09:33:19 PM
Have any of you experimented with a vertical orientation as opposed to your horizontal ones?
I think it's like using a 30' ladder in the street to climb up onto the curb: you are only getting a 6" vertical rise.
Take that same 30' ladder and prop it up against a building that is 25' high and you can get onto the roof. That is a much more efficient use of the ladder.
How about suspended in the air? have any of you tried setting up your units in the air as opposed to in the ground? How about in a pond?
When experimenting, you have to use your imagination to think of as many variations as possible to determine which things may or may not be causing certain results.
I am using vertical orientation on my rods, aligned as mentioned to the north/south meridian with the angle on the bottom of the electrodes as close to the magnetic dip angle for my area as I can get. Way back in this topic many other possible alignments were tried including horizontal, but after much research and experimentation, I went with the method that consistently puts out the most juice. My methods are based, in part, on Nathan Stubblefield's approach with the exception that I am not now using his coils, and also on the work done by the Russians in their telluric current research and experiments.
Bill
Quote from: Yortuk Festrunk on June 09, 2009, 09:33:19 PM
Well, Yortuk,
the best way to find out is to try it yourself.
Nobody ever really does your ideas the way you do anyway. At least that is what I have noticed here on the forum for the last few years.
Earth battery air batteries. sure.
Pond batteries, I do not think so. You will just get limited by the galvanic limits, and that is very limiting.
But don't take my word for it.
Try it.
Always try it for yourself.... and have fun.
jeanna
@Bill,
Quote from: Pirate88179 on June 10, 2009, 01:48:39 AM
@ Jim:
Those are good readings my friend. This site and the calculator there will help you increase them:
http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomagmodels/IGRFWMM.jsp
This helps you calculate the magnetic deviation and dip angle for your location. It is international and not just the USA.
The separation of the electrodes is important to getting more volts and amps out of them but does not fix the series hook-up problems we have seen. The further apart your electrodes, the better it gets. Now, I don't know how this translates with the single disk approach which you are now using. One way to tell.
Keep up the great work down there....or up there.....ha ha.
Bill
Thank you for the web addy, II have been there and checked it out, however, I'm having trouble understanding it.
Do I need a protractor and read off the angle the rods need to be in the ground?
I'm a little confused.
Mabe its because I'm down under lol
jim
@ Yortuk,
Quote from: Yortuk Festrunk on June 10, 2009, 09:24:15 PM
I'm not sure if this is an answer to my question. Maybe you misread it.
My question is for any of you who have been working on this. So feel free to answer.
Mabe I did, hard to tell, but
my first earth battery I used a steel plate and a copper plate.
I put them Vertically in the earth.
*******************************
With my last earth battery I made from Copper and Steel,
I made a copper disk 10 and a 1/2 inches in diameter
I made a steel disk 10 and a 1/2 inches in diameter.
I used three, 2 inch spacer from a yellow rubber hose.
I screwed them together with plastic/nylon bolts
Then I planted them HOROZONTALLY in the earth, about 6 inches below the top soil
Hope this helps you make the same.
jim
Hi everybody,
I was describing (and showing my pics of) my success to someone last night. (The success is with the joule thief and fluoro tube.)
He has a friend who has been experimenting with eb's and using vinegar.
As calmly as I could, I explained that as soon as you add the vinegar, you force the eb into galvanic mode and out of the magnetic mystery mode that it is in.
Then he said...
He understood that if you put a series of magnets between your probes you can enhance the eb.
We were interrupted at that point and there was no more said.
I think this is a good possibility and a great subject for investigation.
Anyone want to try it?
jeanna
Is this tapping the earth's magnetic field?
From what I've been able to learn from this thread, you have one electrode in the ground, then a second electrode is placed in the ground at some distance from the first, with nothing else in between. And it is aligned north to south in line with the Earth's magnetic field.
If this is so, I have an idea that could potentially increase the output of your units many times over.
E.g., if you are presently reading 1 volt, this could boost it to 10 volts.
Talking about series connections for this EB's I came across the fact that you must have a one shot one kill situation ,one big rod on north and south not separated ones if they are too close cause they don't work as Jeanna put it, so what I did after connecting in series and losing voltage was to add those 7 blocks of magnesium from waltmart to my round magnesium rod and from 1.5 volts I now get 2.5 volts some days some other hot days only 1.5 and under a load of 2 3.5volt leds drops to .545 through my joule thief, a thing of beauty, so amperage increased up to 1.50 ma where before I had .500 ma or less, the blocks are attached to a plastic angle and interconnected on top of the magnesium rod being attached with screws to the angle adding vertical length therefore getting a better output reading, homogeneus union sturdy connections are a must a small short or loose end and you get nothing,but of course mine is funky looking with radio shack alligator cables hooked up through the blocks screws, thing is other metals will take away from the output it has to be as much pure magnesium as possible , a copper wire through them for better contact works just fine,but I have my doubts about that flint on the side, my 4 ft. long 2'' carbon rod all the way into the ground , so I would suggest to just either join this metals to the top, south is out a foot or more, and of the same composition or just adding to the diameter underground same deal with the carbon rods a bunch of them as a unit will work better Im going to add one more rod or five of the same if finances permit to keep getting stuff powerfull enough for some practical use , can wait to find out and this is for the folks whom have a limited area like me I haven't even used pirate's suggested site for magnetic angle aligment another thing to test thank you for the link it saves an awfull lot of time, and I hope I can save you some as well, working in a team is better, at the same time Im working in a huge bedini wheel ,and somehow I pretend to hook it all up to my battery, one coil now with just a 4'' diameter pvc pipe and 7 single radio shack ceramic magnets gaining .5 volts at .100 amps at the secondary battery after 5 hrs with a 19 volt input not much but that's why adding more coils is critical on that 43'' diameter table top wheel and doubled magnet sets, still going on weak ceramics , 20 sets of them at least ...crazy for Im not near the output required to run such thing from the EB...But we shall find the way right folks?........so how did you say we boost the output Yortuk??
Keep up the good work
Quote from: Yortuk Festrunk on June 12, 2009, 07:01:29 PM
Is this tapping the earth's magnetic field?
From what I've been able to learn from this thread, you have one electrode in the ground, then a second electrode is placed in the ground at some distance from the first, with nothing else in between. And it is aligned north to south in line with the Earth's magnetic field.
If this is so, I have an idea that could potentially increase the output of your units many times over.
E.g., if you are presently reading 1 volt, this could boost it to 10 volts.
It is aligned with the earth's Polar grid lines. (Meridians) Not magnetic and depending on where you are located on the planet, this can be a huge difference. That is why I posted the calculator link. The bottom of the electrodes are aligned to match the magnetic dip angle for that particular area. Read up on Telluric currents (google) and the work done by the Russians.
Bill
FreeEnergy said:
Quote
guys look at http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,948.msg46100.html#msg46100
@all,
Just an idea, possibly good for the Half Baked Ideas Forum:
Would it be feasible to combine the link above with this,
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=5778.0 ?
Might make a spaceship if the cone coil has antigravity properties? Just food for thought, as it were...
The Moderators may decide that's where this post belongs. Or not. Either way.
--Lee
the_big_m_in_ok
A buddy of mine on Youtube posted this and asked me to bring it to your attention:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mxa_G4X8Y7k&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mxa_G4X8Y7k&feature=related)
He did not film this and it is in some language I do not recognize but it is what appears to be an earth battery, joule thief, spark gap (Jeanna will like this) and God knows what else and they are lighting about a dozen incandescent bulbs from it.
It is a 7 part series (the link above is for part 1) and maybe someone here will be able to figure out what they are saying. It is very interesting to say the least. I can't quite figure out what they are doing even though I recognize some of the components.
Bill
Great find Bill...a lot of potential and a lot of unknowns there...somebody here must know what language they are speaking.
Regards...
I find a resemblance of the joule thief with this kapanadtze's setting our joule thief needs to be scaled up and correct me if Im wrong but we are missing the part where we send high frequencies into the ground to obtain as an eco a bigger output , it also remains me the way a bedini charger works, bedini did mention on his energy cd series that Tesla discover this during the turn on of the generators at Niagara falls, also , today I hooked up my ground battery in a simple way to obtain more current ...see...I was going crazy studying the patents and the only thing we have to do is connect in aligment say the negative side a completely separated setting no series with the carbon and so forth , and then the positive a bunch of carbon rods just connected together the terminals of both negative and positive then provide the voltage and amperage magnified no loss so I combined magnesium with zinc and graphite with carbon small rods on the other side...I was dumbfounded, I vaguely remember probably someone mentioning something like this, so in that case my apologies if I was just repeating this
Best Regards
Hi all. I am a newbie, yet not a newbie...as I have been following for a long time. I have now read through this entire forum of Joe's for the second time. :o I figure if I read it through one more time, I just might understand what I am reading. I marvel at Jeanna's ability to pick it up so fast. Same for Bill and the rest. I have also read through Bill's site once, and will now go read through that one once again. Then it will be on to the joule thief forum. Just wanted to thank you Joe, and all others, for what you have given us with this knowledge. ... protonmom
Quote from: protonmom on July 26, 2009, 06:05:56 PM
Hi all. I am a newbie, yet not a newbie...as I have been following for a long time. I have now read through this entire forum of Joe's for the second time. :o I figure if I read it through one more time, I just might understand what I am reading. I marvel at Jeanna's ability to pick it up so fast. Same for Bill and the rest. I have also read through Bill's site once, and will now go read through that one once again. Then it will be on to the joule thief forum. Just wanted to thank you Joe, and all others, for what you have given us with this knowledge. ... protonmom
protonmom:
Thank you for your kind words. Wow, if you have the patience to read this 2 times, and the other one 2 times and are now going to tackle the JT topic, I take my hat off to you. If you have this kind of patience, you will be a good experimenter. Feel free to jump in on any of the topics and if you have any questions, do not be afraid to raise them.
What I have learned in my almost 2 years on this forum is still amazing to me and it is all because of the really intelligent, helpful folks here. We look forward to seeing you here, and on the other topics.
Bill
Thank you. I am thrilled to have found this site. I did make two coils, and have been testing them periodically, but have yet to light up any LEDs. I will, though...eventually. I wont be posting too much on either forum until I feel I know more of what I am talking about. However, I have learned so much from all of you, just watching from the side line. I don't think any of you realise how important you have been to those of us who have been lurking around. Again, thank you. Now, back to speculations forum. I have a lot more reading to do. ;D
Has anyone actually made an NS EB without a joule thief or cap? Please direct me to the appropriate post if there is one.
Also, in the NS Farm photo....why is the black man's legs cut off on the far left? Is that one of those smudged out photos like you see in the Mars anomolies? I know he wasn't just floating there in the air. Anyone have the original photo for comparison?
Quote from: protonmom on July 29, 2009, 05:56:29 PM
Has anyone actually made an NS EB without a joule thief or cap? Please direct me to the appropriate post if there is one.
Also, in the NS Farm photo....why is the black man's legs cut off on the far left? ...
I will put this one up. It is not the original. Hans provided that, I think.
I believe what is in front of this man is a device. It looks to me to be a telephone table with 2 speakers on it or 2 similar things. See what you see.
BTW
There were a few of us that built stubblefield coils. Mostly we were going for higher galvanic before we went for the action off the secondary. So, we never got much past winding the primary . I now think that was a mistake.
I made a dozen or 11 or so. I made a few that now have secondaries. But, all but one of them have more primary turns than secondary turns on them. And that one is very small and gives unusual responses and has since I wrapped the secondary around it..
So here is a gif I made without the words Hans put there.
Edit:
I found it. This is my copy of the one Hans put up. It does appear to be altered, but it is just what is below the device that is missing, I guess.
jeanna
also did you see my new video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_wAsAeUIHA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_wAsAeUIHA)
the first green one is the small one with the green secondary.
Last time it was in the ground it got shorted out.
Do you remember all those tables I made? They were all of stubblefield coils without joule thief and no cap except once when I gave that a try.
edit - 2
I found a page from March 10 2998 where I gave a synopsis of the first 4 coils I made as NS generators. Here is a link to that post. I left this thread about 2 months later.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3500.msg76449#msg76449 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3500.msg76449#msg76449)
I don't know, Jeanna. It still looks like there is something missing from in front of that man. Perhaps someone wrote on the picture and they tried to fix it...I don't know. I only hope it was not another invention, covered up.
Sadly, I am not able to see any videos at this time. Maybe one of these days I will use the other computer to view them.
So, I have now made two NS EB's and one pancake. I have no idea how to read my DMM. Can someone tell me what these readings would be?
On the pancake: WET
Under V 200 = .8 20=.83 2=.835
Under A 20m=4.33 and up 200m = 4.7
Under Batt 1.5V= .270 to .248 9V = .64 to .66 12V = .68 and up
I did take readings on my other coils both dry and wet but have to find where I put the notes. I used a heavy type cotton on those two coils.
One more thing. How do I tell the difference between soft and hard iron? Thanks in advance.
P.S. Jeanna when did you learn to time travel into the year 2998??? ha ha. Wouldn't that be nice!
One last edit: That black man is carrying two baskets of what appear to be more earth batteries (in my eyes, that is) There is no reaon for his legs to disappear as they would if that were a retaining wall in front of him. I think they smudged something out they did not want us to see. If anyone has a clearer photo I would sure like to see it.
Quote from: protonmom on July 29, 2009, 07:58:05 PM
I don't know, Jeanna. It still looks like there is something missing from in front of that man. Perhaps someone wrote on the picture and they tried to fix it...I don't know. I only hope it was not another invention, covered up.
Me too, but my guess is that it was the legend of names that goes with all those numbers over the heads.
He was so thoroughly crushed; my guess would be that there was no need to cover his inventions up. He did invent the cell phone and it was never covered up. It was not necessary. Nobody wanted to pay for it....
Quote...
On the pancake: WET
Under V 200 = .8 20=.83 2=.835
Under A 20m=4.33 and up 200m = 4.7
Under Batt 1.5V= .270 to .248 9V = .64 to .66 12V = .68 and up
OK you have 0.835 volts dc
When the dmm is on the 200 it doesn't bother to go into the detail of the 35 part, so it tells you there are .8v
You might have 4.33 milliamps (=mA)
those are the only places to bother reading earth batteries...
until... soon.
I have a feeling we will soon be putting all these pieces together, so keep up the good pace and welcome to the fun!
QuoteOne more thing. How do I tell the difference between soft and hard iron? ...
I was told the plumbing pipe I used was soft. It really seemed to operate differently from the others. I had them grouped together under the tree for a while and that one always stood out differently. In fact it was the one I put the cap on just to see.
I think the black annealed wire and rebar ties are all soft.
I think cast iron fence stock is soft.
QuoteP.S. Jeanna when did you learn to time travel into the year 2998??? ha ha. Wouldn't that be nice!
I did go back into his office 3 days in a row. He walked over to the 5,6 wires and twisted them together. My mind immediately took over, so I am not sure about what I saw, imagination or true past... but It could have been true. I have hooked it up like that......... ;)
Quote... If anyone has a clearer photo I would sure like to see it.
the pogue library at the university in KY, bowling green, I guess, has it.
jeanna
@JOE
I seem to be having a hard time getting answers to my questions, so I thought I would try my luck over here. Can you tell me whether or not the wire that is used for "invisible radio wave pet fencing" could be used successfully as the secondary winding on a NS EB??? It is the stuff you buy in a kit with the little flags. I don't have the kit nor the box it came in, just the wire and flags. I was hoping to use it on my coil, but was waiting to see if ANYONE would answer my questions. I thought I read somewhere that the secondary wire was supposed to be thinner than the primary, and have a lot more windings. This wire is definitely thinner than my primary.
So, in YOUR opinion, would this work? I thank you in advance.
what about something like this, although I am not really into batteries you could hook up an array of large battery cells to power your house or sell power back if you had enough cells.
you could also make a sludge drain for the Iron Oxide to keep your electrolyte clean once in a while.
Jerry
protonmom said:
Quote
Has anyone actually made an NS EB without a joule thief or cap?Please direct me to the appropriate post if there is one.
Yes, I did. I bought a plan from Creative Science and built a system from their recommendations.
I alternated heavy gauge steel and aluminum wires 15 feet apart. With co-ax cable I found, I connected the steel wires to each other and the aluminum ones, too.
The negative side(I forget which one) went to a solid earth ground. The positive side went to the positive terminal of a battery. Open voltage was 2 V after 2 hrs., whereas it should have been logically grounded.
Further experiments by dedicated individuals might improve on this.
--Lee
Quote from: protonmom on July 29, 2009, 05:56:29 PM
Has anyone actually made an NS EB without a joule thief or cap? Please direct me to the appropriate post if there is one.
Also, in the NS Farm photo....why is the black man's legs cut off on the far left? Is that one of those smudged out photos like you see in the Mars anomolies? I know he wasn't just floating there in the air. Anyone have the original photo for comparison?
I have and so have many others. Now, as to where those posts are....I have no idea but they are there. I know you have read all of them....twice no less, so you know what I mean when I say that I would not know where to begin to find them. I never used a supercap or a JT on any of my NS coils, and they all worked very well. My larger one worked much better, of course.
Bill
Bill, thank you. Well, then, I suppose it is time for a third reading only this time I will take NOTES!!! It is just wonderful that you actually got one to work all on it's own. I will search for those posts until I find them. I started taking notes on the Joule forum, and wish I had taken notes on THIS one, and on yours also.
So much to learn. So little time. So many projects I would love to do...and I am so far behind the rest of you. If you happen to find the post where you talk about your working EB please let me know. Thank you very much.
Here is a re-post of a photo I took of one of my NS coils putting out 472 mA's. That is almost (note I said almost) 1/2 amp of power. Another shot of it putting out 1.9 volts on the ac scale.
Bill
I betcha the date would be sometime around the date of the youtube video regarding the working eb. I think the winter of 07. I remember Bill telling me sometime that it was very important that his eb was successful, because the fact that it worked charged HIM up to keep going, so it was early in localjoe's (this) thread.
Or find that first youtube video...
Maybe this helps.
jeanna
Thanks for your post Bill. That's nothing to scoff at. Do you have another meter as to measure both milliamps and volts simultaneously? I have the same meter from Sears. Love that store.
Dave
Thanks. I now have 4 meters, the one from Sears, 2 really cheap ones from online ($8 ea.) to monitor my Bedini motor outputs. (Way cheaper than gauges) and a really expensive Omega from my Dad. Back when these photos were taken, I only had the Sears meter. It has been a good meter so far but, thanks to the NS coil, I had blown 3 fuses on the amps side and they are very hard to find around here. I was used to my small electrode set-up and had the meter on that range and then tested the coil and.....poof. Oh well, it was (and still is) all part of the learning curve. But, to answer your question, no, I have never used 2 meters at the same time. I could now but I would have to wind another working coil. Another project for the future.
Bill
Jerry, here is a pic of the pvc battery from Creative Science. I hope it turns out okay. Never know for sure until it posts.
I have started on two of these. Just need to add the alum cans to it, and it should be ready for the electrolyte, whether that be bleach or what.
Good luck on making yours. Be sure you get the right size pvc so that your beer/pop cans just fit inside. I bought pipe that is too big and now have to figure out how I will fix that little problem. Cannot solder alum...unless I buy that stuff they advertise on tv. Cant remember the name of it, but it looks and acts like aluminum.
Bill, thanks for posting that. I am just simply amazed. It gives me encouragement. Now I will have to stay up all night searching for the actual post so I can study up on it. I guess once I get some mag wire and put a secondary on mine, maybe I will also have a working coil. Off to study some more now.
Quote from: protonmom on August 03, 2009, 11:29:12 PM
Bill, thanks for posting that. I am just simply amazed. It gives me encouragement. Now I will have to stay up all night searching for the actual post so I can study up on it. I guess once I get some mag wire and put a secondary on mine, maybe I will also have a working coil. Off to study some more now.
In the interest of full disclosure, I actually found ( a miracle in and of itself) some of my old notes from that time. It is all coming back to me...very slowly, that this high amp reading (mA's) was after someone on the forum suggested adding a little vinegar to the soil. I did, and it worked great, as you can see.....BUT...after about a week.....it stopped working at all. After many rains I tried again with the meter and.....nothing. This is why I no longer have this larger coil.
Protonmom, the size coil I saw that you have made (nice job) should do way more than anything I ever did with the NS coil. I did not, at that time, have the money for materials and the patience to wind a large one like yours. As Jeanna said, yours looks more like Nathan's in the photos. He had a huge mass of wire there and I believe this is where the amps/power came from. So, do NOT add vinegar to the soil, even if it gives you a temporary higher output on the mA's. I have always wanted to make a coil the size of a 55 gallon drum. (Jeanna might remember me posting this) I believe, if made correctly with no shorts, that it would have some serious power. And then, add the pulsing part and who knows what it might do.
Bill
This is the alum weld rod I was talking about:
http://www.alumiweld.com/
Stronger than aluminum
Harder than mild steel
Non-toxic to humans
Low working temperature
No flux or fumes
Excellent corrosion resistance
Low cost
Repairs approximately inch for inch, as little as five cents per inch
Minimize problems of distortion and loss of tensile strength
1 lbs $34.95
protonmom:
What is the melting temp.? Would a propane hand held torch do it? Did they say? I had always read that you need a mig welder to do al. (or maybe tig?) If this works as advertised, I could weld all of my beer cans together and build a house. (Empty ones of course)
Bill
yeah bill,
I bet you could run a whole town on one of those.!
Bill, what was your old youtube name? did you remove it and all the old videos? I just searched and didn't find it. Once before I did find it, so I am asking you. In them, I think you SHOWED some details PM would like to see.
jeanna
Jeanna:
It was 0WildBill0. I think one of those videos has now 26,000 views. That is why I left it there. Once I got my digital HD (49.00) cam, I figured it would be easier for continuity to use the same name as here.
Bill
Bill, I also would love to make a huge one the size of a 5 gallon pail or so. Sure would take a lot of wire, time, money, and patience, not to mention sore hands. I have no wire winding jig, and not sure I could make one. I just might try to build a large coil very soon. Will have to start gathering the materials.
On this last coil, I used interfacing to cover the fe wire, even though it says to leave that wire bare. The interfacing is so thin, and I don't think it will affect it adversely. It sure made it easier to wind and to make the rows pretty much the same size seeing as how the cotton cover for the cu makes that wire so large.
Jeanna, I didn't know Bill used another name other than the Pirate one. I just did a quick look in the beginning of this forum for Bill's coil, but have not located it yet. If there are notes on construction that would be great.
The alumiweld is done with a hand held torch, by the way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mq9ZKDKDclY&feature=channel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mq9ZKDKDclY&feature=channel)
Bills other videos.
I am confused about the construction you are talking about.
Did you get a copy of the Stubblefield Patent?
It is what we all used for making ours. Since yours looks so much like the patent, I assumed you had a copy and were using that. I read the patent every day. Each time I read it I got a better idea of what it was about.
I do not believe anybody made a "how to" for any body else. We were all stumbling along together so there was no opportunity to do that.
I think you will make great coils.
About the secondary.
I made 6 coils with secondaries.
The two best ones have the secondary touching the other coils... not through a wooden spool.
I don't mean shorting touching.
The 2 worst ones the secondaries are made on a plastic (thin) spool of some kind.
I don't know what it means, perhaps nothing.
But you do need to have more turns on the secondary or you will never get any good results.
You need 3 times as many turns as on the combined number of the primary.
I used to make 30+30 on each row for 6 rows. That is 360 Turns.
I really needed to make about 1,000 turns for my secondary. egads.
I never got close to that.
Nor did anybody else.
I made a non galvanic one with plastic tele wire for the copper part. It has the same 360 turns, but an off the shelf spool of red magnet wire from Radio Shack, gave me some good results.
BUT, and this is REALLY important.
I do not see much of anything unless I use the scope.
All those beautiful waves etc are in the millivolts. That is 0.068v on a dmm, if it can see them at all.
It is when you see them on the scope, that you start to get different thoughts. But, I digress.
I had forgotten the sore fingers. You just reminded me!
jeanna
protonmom:
Thanks for the torch info. Just to be clear, I have always used Pirate88179 here on OU.com. It was Youtube back in the early days that I used the 0WildBill0 name.
Bill
Jeanna,
>>I am confused about the construction you are talking about.
Did you get a copy of the Stubblefield Patent?
<<
Sorry about that. Sometimes my words come out without my brain functioning. I know what I am talking about but when I go to write it out it comes out bass-ackwards. Yes, I do have the patent and construction. And also I see now that Bill said he had used the vinegar. Slow brain, again. When I go to post a reply it is hard to remember exactly what was in the post I was wanting to reply to. What I meant was it would be nice to have a picture in my head as to just where the EB was located, in relation to his probes, etc....but it really doesn't matter now as he said that was the vinegar coil.
(even now I am trying to recall your post and I cannot. Wish we could see the posts - more than just the last one - so that we could respond in accord. I will have to post this, and then I will probably see something else I wanted to reply to...oh well.) I will just edit.
EDIT: How can you tell if a wire is designated as mag wire? Doesn't that just mean it is attracted to a magnet? It is copper so it is...Oh heck! I just got up and checked it with a magnet. I cannot believe it...it is NOT attracted to the magnet at all! What in the world? I thought all copper would be magnetic. Boy oh boy...talk about learning something new every day. Sheesh.....
I agree. We could in the early days.
Here is a tip.
If you are replying to many things you can use the quote button, but you kind of need to watch the tags or the whole thing will be incomprehensible.
I like to push the button that opens the link in a new page. that way I just need to move the current page out of the way to read the thing I am replying to. Sometimes it can get nuts. tonight I have been posting on 4 threads. nuts.
Are you using firefox?
jeanna
protonmom:
From Wikipedia:
Magnet wire or enameled copper wire is a copper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper) or aluminum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminum) wire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire) covered with thin insulation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_insulation). It is used in the construction of transformers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformer), inductors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductors), motors, headphones, loudspeakers, hard drive head positioners, potentiometers, and electromagnets, among other applications. However, it is not usually magnetic itself.
The wire itself is most often fully annealed, electrolytically refined copper. Aluminum magnet wire is sometimes used for large transformers and motors. However, because of its lower electrical conductivity, an aluminum wire must have 1.6 times the cross sectional area as a copper wire to achieve comparable DC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_current) resistance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_resistance). Smaller diameter magnet wire usually has a round cross section. Thicker magnet wire is often square or rectangular (with rounded corners) to permit more efficient use of available winding space. Older insulation materials consisted of cotton, paper, or silk and were only useful for lower temperature applications (up to 105°C).
Hope this helps. Don't feel bad at all. I have learned so much here AND I also learn something new at least once/day.
Bill
Bill;
I DO feel bad. I feel like an IN-complete idiot! I have ALWAYS thought all copper was magnetic! Now I see it is NOT. I also just looked up the meaning of the word and it says:
magnetic wire definition
a fine wire of a ferromagnetic alloy, used as a storage medium for magnetic recording
ferromagnetic definition
ferro·mag·netic (-mag net'ik)
adjective
designating a material, as iron, nickel, or cobalt, having a high magnetic permeability which varies with the magnetizing force
So now I need to look for the real stuff before winding any more secondaries. Thanks for the info and for not laughing at me. (you didn't laugh at me, did you???) ::)
I should have gone to bed hours ago, but then I wouldn't be having all this fun!! And besides, I am learning...big time now. ha ha.
Okay, so SOME copper wire is magnetic wire...some aint (aint...means "is not")
Here is some info I just located on magnetic wire.
Copper mag wire is used in OIL IMMERSED TRANSFORMERS AND OIL FILLED MOTORS.
Aluminum mag wire is used in HIGH FREQUENCY TRANSFORMERS, COILS AND INDUCTORS.
So, even though some copper wire is mag wire....we had better use the alum mag (or even iron mag if there is such a thing) if we want our COIL to work properly.
protonmom:
Maybe my ignorance will be showing here but, what the heck. My understanding is that it is called Magnet Wire, not Magnetic Wire. It does not have anything to do with being magnetic. I have no real idea why it is called this but, it is. Copper is never magnetic under any conditions I have ever heard about.
Forget magnet wire...just think of it as (like the Wiki thing said) enameled coated copper wire.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on August 04, 2009, 02:12:08 AM
....My understanding is that it is called Magnet Wire, not Magnetic Wire. It does not have anything to do with being magnetic. I have no real idea why it is called this ....
I think that is a correct description
That misleading name must have come about because that wire is used to wind electro-magnets (solenoids).
edit: and it is used because its insulation (enamel coating) is so thin. That makes it easy to put the copper-strands closely packed next to each other, which is good in order to merge the magnetic fields of each strand (when a current is flowing) into one big field (= the field of the finished electro-magnet).
And this (merging the field of the individual insulated strands) is why Stubblefield calls for a
densly wound primary. It is stipulated in the patent. And this is why insulation of the copper wires of the primary is important but if you use t-shirt cotton strips the wires will be too far apart for the field to merge properly, imho.
The strands of the primary of a NS coil need to be packed as densly as possible, that is to say the insulation of each strand must be as thin as possible. This is why I also think that pvc-coated copper wire (like protomom's red wire) is not ideal to wind a NS primary, as often the insulation layer of such wire is thicker than the copper strands, making close packing of the metal strands impossible.
BTW: I think we can more or less check if a NS coil is good: It is good
if the current created in the primary is able to magnetize the iron core.Then we have to do as Pirate88179 says: attach an automatic switching mechanism (inverter/multivibrator - I think one needs two transistors)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multivibrator
in order to continuously switch the field in the primary on and off so that it changes (flux change) and as a result an alternating current will be induced in the secondary. Then we can draw power from that secondary.
That's how I think it is meant to work.
But must admitt: all theory until proven.
Thank you Oscar. You and Bill have helped me a lot. I had just assumed it meant magnetic wire. And then, to top it off...after I uploaded those pics of the cu and alum "mag" wire spools, I went back out for another search and found that most places say to use the copper mag wire. Erghh....why isn't there ONE standard? We are already having enough trouble trying to pick Stubblefield's mind that we don't need MORE confusion and conjecture. I have an idea that most businesses that sell the wire will say anything for a sale. If I had the money, I would make one coil using the aluminum wire and one using the copper...just for comparison.
So, on the magnetic core......are you saying that unless there is some magnetic properties in the core bolt IMMEDIATELY upon completion of wiring the primary, (before attaching the secondary) then it is NOT made right??? How much magnetic properties? Enough to attract a paper clip ...or, more???? Thank you again for your help. I sure need all I can get.
Quote from: protonmom on August 04, 2009, 10:55:24 AM
are you saying that unless there is some magnetic properties in the core bolt IMMEDIATELY upon completion of wiring the primary, (before attaching the secondary) then it is NOT made right??? ..
Let's hear what the pirate says, but Yes, I think so.
my feeling is, that the primary alone should be able to attract a paperclip, even a heavy one, if properly made.
;-)
Otherwise how should it power a secondary?
from the patent line 70
http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?CC=US&NR=600457A&KC=A&FT=D&date=&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP
Quote...so that the battery may be used as a self-generating electromagnet ...to secure this result is simply required connecting the extended terminals ...5 and 6 together, after wetting or dampening ....
The problem I see, is that with the small coils we are all winding, compared to the monsters on the images from the Stubblefield farm, we would probably have to use quite fine wire to get enough turns, with the thin wire unfortunately being much harder to handle and work with. But I think it may be worth it.
But the best would be, to build one of these giants.
Maybe you get an idea how to rig up some kind of improvised winding-jig with a hand-crank or something, so that you are able to place the turns as neatly as possible.
That would be much better than twisting the coil/spool by hand on a table to wind it.
Good luck
I agree with Oscar. When the primary is working it should basically make the core an electromagnet. This is why the core should be soft iron. (soft not in hardness, but this is a term for how it handles being magnetized, if I remember correctly)
Jeanna had some good posts a long time ago and, thanks to her, we found our little coils did some weird stuff to a compass so, we were getting some electromagnetic action out of them. It is the pulsing of this electromagnet, and the collapse of the field that induces the voltage in the secondary. (As Oscar said) The rest is left for experimentation as we never figured out the way Nathan created his pulses.
Bill
QuoteThe strands of the primary of a NS coil need to be packed as densly as possible, that is to say the insulation of each strand must be as thin as possible. This is why I also think that pvc-coated copper wire (like protomom's red wire) is not ideal to wind a NS primary, as often the insulation layer of such wire is thicker than the copper strands, making close packing of the metal strands impossible.
You probably could use the stranded pvc but it would make the coil much thicker as the pvc jacket adds considerably. There would still be a uniform magnetic field with it. The overall magnetic field intensity with multiple windings may not be as strong as with mag wire though.
Ah yes,
These old folks have heard this before, so I am only addressing those who have not heard it yet:
I always believed that NS was not manipulating the pulses.
Lately I believe it even more. I think those millivolts of spikes I see are coming from the earth itself and the NS coil uses them to create the back emf that makes the power. (It is possible that this earth pulse is combined with the antenna action I saw last week) I think this idea fits with his language too.
I am not saying I am right.
I am just wanting this thought to be spoken in case it is right.
Stubblefield "inductive" earth battery operated on
the beta-voltaic effect. There is a missing component.
As are in so many other "free" energy devices.
Otherwise it would be very easy to replicate.
http://keelytech.com/stubblefield.html
sorry to be negative on the project...
Nice DrSpark! The glowing earth is what I always worried about. I was thinking some type of sulfide solution but the pitchblende makes perfect sense. We know Madam Curie died from it. It may have killed Stubblefield also from the looks of it. This puts a new light on the way to proceed with it.
The pitchblende was only used in one of his experimental locations...it was NOT a part of why his device worked. He, like us, was always looking to get more power and this was but one of the many methods he tried.
When he went on tour to Philly and NY and Washington, his devices all worked in each location. (without pitchblende) He was also the first person in recorded history to make a ship to shore call. He did not use pitchblende in any of these locations including the water in the river.
Bill
QuoteThe pitchblende was only used in one of his experimental locations
Well thats good news.
Was the pitchblende location where he had the ground glowing?
From my readings, that is not exactly clear. He did use the pitchblende on his farm where he did a lot of his experimenting. The glow was reportedly coming from his farm so if that had anything to do with it, I don't know one way or the other. I just wanted to make clear that I am of the opinion it was not needed or required for his cells to work evidenced by his success on the road trip and in the river.
I don't think that pitchblende would glow although I am not an authority on any of that stuff. (or much else, ha ha) It is radium ore and is not refined radium. Radium is what they used to paint on watch dials so they would glow in the dark so...we may never know.
Bill
Thanks Bill! The glow could come from the electric current going through the pitchblende. Certain chemical compounds will glow when an electric current passes through it.
Maybe a phosphorous angle too...due to the natural affects being manifested.
Regards...
Greetings,
I'm new to posting here but have been reading over this site for many years now. The problem I find, it's bigger then a phone book and who has time for all that? Just smack me if I repeat anything already suggested or otherwise mentioned, but I can't sit an read for weeks at a time..... I'm a doer, not a reader! The novels are for my wife, not for me,,,, I'll just wait for the movie! But in the mean time, I run my own experiments which is what I want to talk about here. I hope you understand that I don't have perhaps the genetic make up that might allow me to sit through endless reading. I'm half blind now, if I read any more I won't be able to type! Better to quite while still functional.....
I imagine that everyone here realizes this earth battery of sorts is something Nikola Tesla realized in the late 1800's. But there is an anode and a cathode to it all which is not located all in one spot or location. We all know that when we move a magnet across a copper wire that a transfer of energy occurs, right? We can cause or force an electron flow by using a magnetic field which gives us voltage in return via the copper wire. That's basic electrical "generation" which is an incorrect term. It should be named "convergence",,,, not generation, since it's the combination of multiple elements which cause or forced the reaction. Anyway, Tesla had it right, some believe this as fact and the rest fail. He designed and built Wardenclif tower which Is a brilliant concept, but it all worked on a resonant factor.
This tower could pull energy from the earth and the atmosphere otherwise know as the ionosphere, aether, etc. This would have been the ultimate earth battery of it's time. I too have stuck some rods in the ground and got results, but I quickly got to the point of diminishing return. The real power/energy lays between the earth and the outer space. Instead of going horizontal, how about going vertical? I do this now with varied results, but I can recharge any battery for free using the method I described.
Are any of you using areal's?
The interesting thing to me at least, when you go up wards, you find new power/energy. After a great deal of research and experimentation, I know the earth resonates at about 6HZ. The funny thing to me is, so does the human skull. The ionosphere resonates between 106 - 108 MHZ, or so I have read. Tesla was more or less in tune with nature, so for us to duplicate his reported results, we have to do what he did, use what he used and try for ourselves.
Everything he did relied on a resonant factor. We loose almost any possibility of resonance when we use the so-called "chip" due to resistance, power factor, and the fact that a chip can't vibrate well, if any at all. Resonance after all is nothing more then breaching or reaching the mechanical threshold of said component. At least as I see it that is.... A chip won't move, but a tube will. I know it sounds old and antiquated, but to do what Tesla did, shouldn't we be using the same components he used?
Perhaps I just see things differently, but Tesla did all of this at least 114 years ago, so what is taking us so long to catch up? I'm not there yet myself, but I think I'm on the right track.
Anyway, it's just food for thought. But I believe, if you tune a Tesla coil at two distinct but resonant frequencies, you can/could "pull" energy from the vacuum, aether or Ionosphere as I prefer to call it. This term is only negative pressure because there is a lack of pressure, that does not equate vacuum to me. It's like speaking of light when no light exists. You can't have a negative when there is no positive to counteract. So my thoughts: there is no vacuum in space, there is just space and the conditions by which it exists.
I do my best to break everything down, take it apart to examine the counterparts. So the above is only my theory of work already done.
We'll see where this goes I guess, but thanks for listening to my $0.02 worth.
t3t4
=====
OOPS wrong thread!!
My apologies. This belongs on the stubblefield speculations thread!
I will leave it because is is mostly relevant anyway.
=====
Hmm I wonder if I am getting really close to the mark.
I want to repeat that the earth vibration has been showing itself to be 2.22MHz to 5.5MHz (the 5.5MHz is when I use 2 stubblefields and may indicate a doubling of phase, so 2.22MHz is a sure thing.)
This is NOT speculation or coming from some obscure source, it is coming from the earth battery every day I go outside and look at my probes.
It matters NOT whether the earth battery is 2 simple probes in the earth or augmented by a Stubblefield coil and touching a geodesic dome frame (a kind of ariel).
The voltage and mA changes with those details and differences, but the frequency is the same on a given day on either set of probes.
I find that at least an indication that the earth has a daily pulse.
If more people would join in the datalogging experiment we could see if my numbers in the west usa are the same as in the east usa or in Europe or russia, australia.
welcome t3t4,
This thread was quiet for over a year and just picked up again. I suggest you read the last 2 months of posts to see where we are working now, so you can be in sync, if you want to.
There are a few drawings I have made and some scope shots too.
At the moment MY personal thesis has moved to think as you indicate that the changing magnetic field which is changing without cost to us, is something we can use.
It is, however a changing magnetic field and as such will be beneficial to us only if we use an AC approach. (ac, or pulsed dc over time is the same thing afai am concerned.)
So, please join in the fun.
Make a pair of stubblefield generators (induction coils of a certain type) and lets go for it!
I will add 2 pics of 2 scope shots here from today.
The lower voltage one is the plain eb the higher voltage is the one with 2 Stub coils appended. The frequency setting of the screen should be the same.
jeanna
BTW
If what I said made little sense it may be that the context belongs on the Stubblefield speculations thread... sorry again.
Thanks jenna for the reply,
I know I should keep reading, but either it's the lighting in this room or the LCD monitor I'm using that is honestly causing me blurred vision or blindness as I call it.. Either way, it's not a good situation.
But now that I have a reply, I will continue explaining what it is that I am doing. But first, I'll start with my results. Yes I can light LED's, but more importantly, I can charge or re-charge any battery, even alkaline batteries!
I do this using a thin piece of wire in the sky. It's just the three pack radio shack wire, nothing special. But I run this through a charge/dis-charge circuit which has netted me over 35 volts DC. All it takes is a simple circuit with an aerial and a ground. I'll get into particulars if any are interested, but I live here in the East in PA, so I am 180* different then you jeanna and that's a good thing in terms of location. What you do I can test and vise versa. But this resonance is the key in either case.
I too see about 5 MHZ through my circuit on my scope. All this tells me is that I am still way too far off to extract any real power. I have nothing resonating properly, yet. But it only takes coils and capacitors to make my apparatus function. The same basic devices Tesla had available in his time. I am beginning to experiment with tubes, but these are fragile and burn out easily. It seems strange to me, but when you get close, you burn things up. The power is there, it's real and it can do real damage!
I did not know this was more or less a dead topic. What I do know is from what I have read throughout this entire forum thus far, when playing with the earth or the sky, we're all simply re-discovering Tesla's work. I can certainly understand where some of the conspiracy theories come from. This is all but 200 year old technology, and we're still to this day dead in the water. Enough already!
This system works on a resonant frequency. You don't have to use coils or caps, but you won't get anything that can do more then simply light up LED's. The joule thief is a good beginning, but this is not where it ends!
Keep your rods in the ground, but drive them deeper. Then erect some sort of areal. I did this on my rain gutters because I have an "L" shaped building. Leave one end open and the other end to feed a capacitor via wire or whatever. Attach the opposite end of the capacitor to a diode leading to ground. Then note your results.
I have gained as much as 35vdc doing this simple experiment. It can also be done in the home. Use the water spicket as ground or, modify a power cable for the ground only, then erect some sort of areal within your home. It works always and kicks the crap out of solar, simply because it never ends! This is something I have been playing with for years now. But my math skills are lacking severely. I'm having a hard time learning how to wind a coil that resonates at my desired frequency.
Jeanna, I know you see 5 MHZ or so on your scope, but keep in mind there is math involved here. What you see is only the beginning, and I can verify here in the east that I too see the same thing. Albeit a wave form I have never seen before, until I touch the oscilloscope probe to my head in the temple Reagen. My wife seems to have higher output then I do, but the point is, the wave form remains almost the same! Try it, a scope is an input device, not an output component, so you have no worries. But I'm sure you will see that you are emitting the same basic pattern as the earth.
By this test/measure alone, I have no doubt we are all from earth, and not from the so-called planet X.... :o.... ;D I have tested several people thus far and it would seem that us mere mortals exhibit the same basic wave form as the earth itself. Pretty interesting huh?
Anyway, that's enough for now.
Thanks,
t3t4
Oh, one more thing I forgot to mention. you should be using analog scopes and meters, not digital.
t3t4
Welcome t3t4!!
First, let me say this is def. NOT a dead topic. We "newbeez" are just busy reading the other posts and trying to get caught up. Not just the other posts here in this forum, but also the other forums that deal with the earth battery and earth energy receiver and earth probes...or the joule thief. At least that is how it is for me.
Is there any way you could post a drawing of how you have your arial set up? I would much appreciate it. Thanks.
Have not seen Local Joe around lately. Joe are you still here?
Quote from: t3t4 on August 22, 2009, 04:08:51 AM
Oh, one more thing I forgot to mention. you should be using analog scopes and meters, not digital.
t3t4
According to the box, the Velleman personal scope is not a digital scope, just the read-out is digital and being portable makes it much easier and more reliable than using a wall powered scope.
There has been more than one instance of bleed-through from the ac line in the reports of fellow testers. So, pick the walnut with the best pea inside. You have a battery run analog/digital scope that goes outside to the site, or you drag wires out the window and wonder if the 55hz is from the line or if it is real.
My scope readings this year are explaining many unexplainable questions from 2 years ago when I only had a DMM. Anyway. the DMM doesn't even SEE these waves I am talking about.
I tried to use a galvanometer but the swing was very fast and I could not read it. All that is in past posts.
thank you for mentioning this,
@protonmom, did you get your order together ok? I am excited to see what you do when it comes.
jeanna
@ t3t4
How do you do it? I have tried this many times because others have reported similar results to yours. But every time I try this I only get millivolts. Not even enough to rectify with a diode. Please note, I do not doubt your results. I am just frustrated I can not get similar results. Thank you for sharing your results.
Hey guys
I need help here , recently I traveled to a location where I was able to prove that the aerial/antenna set up from Tesla gives out energy, thing is ......how do we get this to be of use?
Sorry if it is the wrong topic but I was too excited , the joule thief is great with my earth battery by far the best in comparison say with water batteries but then again I am just getting a couple of volts from the joule thief, how do we get a small electric motor to run from it and the earth battery? a regular battery delivers about 6 amps, so no wonder it will light up a lot of stuff , but what about increasing the milliamps of the rods?, the earth battery is great and that kapanatze gen is fantastic but seems really far away due to the elements not identified, anyway take a look at this please :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qd2mSkQ_uog
My apologies t3t4, I missed this but saw a later one.
I have lots of comments, here are some...
Quote from: t3t4 on August 22, 2009, 01:26:24 AM
... but I live here in the East in PA, so I am 180* different then you jeanna and that's a good thing in terms of location. ...
But this resonance is the key in either case.
Thanks for the confirmation on the frequency. You are the first in 2 weeks of asking!
I agree, but resonance with what?
I think we should be aiming to resonate with what is naturally occurring.
Why would we aim for something a rumor told us?
I see 2.22-2,5MHz from a single wave every time.
QuoteI too see about 5 MHZ through my circuit on my scope. All this tells me is that I am still way too far off to extract any real power. ...
Why does it tell you that?
Why not optimize your coils for that or a subharmonic.
There are many less fast waves that show up.
The slowest wave I have seen is around 22Hz. but never 6Hz. I am beginning to question the 6 and unless someone can put 6 out there for sure instead of from a rumor, I think it is not so.
QuoteThis system works on a resonant frequency. You don't have to use coils or caps, but you won't get anything that can do more then simply light up LED's. The joule thief is a good beginning, but this is not where it ends!
Have you used coils? You are using a cap. Why not add a coil? Don't you want AC?
QuoteKeep your rods in the ground, but drive them deeper. Then erect some sort of areal. I did this on my rain gutters because I have an "L" shaped building. Leave one end open and the other end to feed a capacitor via wire or whatever. Attach the opposite end of the capacitor to a diode leading to ground. Then note your results.
So far any time I add a diode anywhere in any direction it kills it. dead.
nothing . as soon as I go inside the diode I can detect something.
Right now I have a capacitor connected to the earth south probe and it is collecting 0.065v egads,. not much!
Are you sure you are not getting a bleed through from your electricity line?
Quote...probe to my head in the temple Region. .. But I'm sure you will see that you are emitting the same basic pattern as the earth.
I did that on the first day I had my scope, and that is how I was sure my scope functioned. I agree it is heartbeat-like, but ony when I have the 2 NS (Nathan Stubblefield) coils attached. Using only one gets a less complicated wave at 2.2-2.5 Mhz not 5 MHz.
jeanna
The vellman 10 MHz sample rate has a 2 mhz analog bandwidth
The vellman hps 40 has a sample rate of 40mhz and 12MHz analog bandwidth
The analog bandwidth should be higher than the max bandwidth you measure. Trying to look at a signal that’s too fast for a scope’s bandwidth will introduce errors in amplitude and/or time-interval measurements. 5 times the max bandwidth you want to analyze gives greater clarity.
A digital scope with a Horizontal trigger allows you to capture what a signal did before a trigger event and an analog scope doesn't. A digital scope with a good sample rate and bandwidth would be just as good in my opinion.
@ t3t4
If your getting 35 volts your circuitry and setup detail would be welcome.
Thanks IY for that clear info on my scope.
I looked it up and followed up a couple of words etc.
I have stopped reporting the highest curve on the scale because although the peaks and valleys agree with other resolutions, those on that last resolution are like jello instead of mountains,
Now, I also understand why the voltage seems to uniformly drop on the 0.5us/div resolution.
I do not think this has proved my posts to be meaningless; but, I will stop posting any pictures of screens at the 0.5us resolution also. I might look myself, because it is easier for my eyes to determine where the markers should go and thus see if the day is faster or slower than other days.
Thanks for the inspiration to enquire,
And, yes I agree t3t4, please show us some more details.
Telling me what I must do to get your results is fine, but IMO it should follow you showing me what you are doing.
thanks again,
jeanna
Quote from: jeanna on August 22, 2009, 05:20:38 PM
There are many less fast waves that show up.
The slowest wave I have seen is around 22Hz. but never 6Hz. I am beginning to question the 6 and unless someone can put 6 out there for sure instead of from a rumor, I think it is not so.
jeanna
I don't have a scope but my EXTECH meter has an option to read a frequency.
Usually I don't get any readings. Someone told me in a post that if the frequencies are changing too fast my meter won't be able to zero in on them.
But certain times of the day I can get frequecies to show up.
I've seen as low as 400mHz - yes milli. I didn't know frequecies would go that low. I've seen frequency readings as high as 1.4kHz.
Usually they are between 300Hz - 800Hz.
I have an EB of copper pipe & zinc rod, spaced over 20' apart, adjusted for the degrees off of magnetic North for my area and adjusted for the angle of earth magnetic waves for my area.
At 8:20PM EST I was not able to get frequency readings.
I will continue to check throughout the day tomorrow and try to determine what time of day I can get readings.
@T3T4 - please post a schematic of your circuit with a list of components and the size and type of each componet so I a reproduce your findings.
Thank you,
DonL
It has been discovered that the frequency of the lowest electromagnetic waves is on the order of the 10-3 Hz (millihertz or mHz) and are known as micropulsations.
Quote from: IotaYodi on August 22, 2009, 08:36:31 PM
It has been discovered that the frequency of the lowest electromagnetic waves is on the order of the 10-3 Hz (millihertz or mHz) and are known as micropulsations.
Very interesting because I've seen as low as 400mHz.
So I could actually see much lower with the proper equipment. :)
DonL
Wow, sorry guys/gals, but I have not been notified of all these new posts. I wish I had been, all I did today is sit around. I could have been more productive had I known.
I am not prepared to answer all of the questions asked, but I'll do my best to answer some or at least reply to some.
I'm not sure where exactly this fits in to any one answer, but here we go. The ground rod is one of the most important items. "Going Deeper" is part of the solution. If you think about the core of this planet in terms of molten lava, then what elements comprise the lava? It's mostly iron as science has determined. Science also says the lava if flowing in somewhat of a circular form. So, spinning metal moving fast creates a magnetic field. (I took that from a movie--The Core) The point is, it's true. albeit for reasons I do not fully understand.
What I do understand is this, the higher you go from ground, the more potential energy you can find. I see it like this:
The core of the earth spins, but so does the earth itself. When you take into account the seemingly endless amount of magnetic potential via stars and other bodies in outer space, you can see spinning magnets all over the place, providing they do similarly as the earth itself . Well, this spinning magnet is how our current generators work today. It's a rotating magnetic field. And inductors just love to suck up this energy. So, getting deeper to the core of the earth and reaching higher to the stars will net you the best results since you are closer to the magnetic field at it's point of origin. It's not lay lines, it's not surface conditions, but rather the source of power that we might want to consider in greater discussion or depth. So that is my theory of Tesla's Wardenclif tower.
This tower was basically two coils and a capacitor, all tuned to resonate with something. It's this something that has been driving me half nuts for years now.
@jeanna:
I do use coils, I do use caps, but honestly speaking, my math is so bad that I cannot tune to frequency. I can only tune by experimentation. But to duplicate my results, well, that's easy! You, RadioShack, a hardware store and I can make that happen.. Buy the 3 pack of enamel wire they sell at RadioShack, then take the shinny copper spool of 20awg and string it up horizontally. You can run this across anything really, you can even use the rain gutters on your home instead of wire. Although the wire does seem to give better results, I don't know why.
The point is, you need some conductive material that can attract or otherwise server as an electron collector that will not allow the electrons to escape once collected. Then all you have to do is give these electrons a place to go once they have been collected. It's the where to go, that's the interesting part. The electrons can go to a coil, a capacitor, or both. Either way, they will go nowhere unless tied to ground.
Here is a basic view in PDF form which describes what I'm talking about.
http://www.geeman-headquarters.com/TeslaRadiantEnergySystem.pdf (http://www.geeman-headquarters.com/TeslaRadiantEnergySystem.pdf)
This is another good read for those that like to read:
http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Radiant_Energy_Antenna_System (http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Radiant_Energy_Antenna_System)
Here is a simple test to prove theory:
http://www.pbs.org/tesla/tt/generate_electricity.html
The schematics of the circuit I use are simple, but I have to draw it out which I have yet to do. Sorry, but had I been notified earlier, I would have been somewhat prepared for this reply.
Anyway, long story short, I'm focused on the real earth battery, not the earth so much as the earths interactions between other bodies in space. There is real magic here, but also scientifically explainable. And please, I mean no offense to all the hard work done by all of you. All I'm saying is, the true power is vertical, not horizontal.
Someone, and forgive me for not naming names, but I can't do all this at once, there are too many questions that I'm backed up on. Anyway, someone gave a link to a video on youtube that showed a guy receiving 80+ volts. Now as we all know, voltage is nothing without amperage. If you want 2000+ volts, then dry the air and rub your socks across the carpet. Then touch something grounded and you will receive a round about 2000+ volt shock. But is this real power?
NO!
It is tremendous voltage, but no current, so you don't die in the process. But it is fun to tease the wife with it. So at least you get an amusement factor out of this energy.
I have the same issue with my areal as the guy in the video. Yes I can store energy, but I can't do any real work just using capacitors. However, if I dump this energy into a battery, a man made battery that is, then I can do real work. Just my opinion here, so please take it for what it's worth: I believe you guys should use that joule thief coupled to a regulator of sorts to charge today's batteries. Then run that current through a power converter and then run anything you like as long as the converter is large enough to handle the load. This is perhaps the most inefficient use of the power, but it is also practical. Since you pay nothing for it, this power is available to do with as you see fit. Use it any way you like.
I do things this exact way, only because I have not built a Tesla coil, nor have I tuned any of my coils to the proper frequency as of yet. I got close once and burned things up. This is how I know the real power is available, not just some stupid electrostatic shock....
Anyway, that's enough for now, the questions asked in earlier posts will be answered to the best of my ability. But I have to take this one step at a time and one person at a time.
Please be patient. But also keep the question coming. Your questions cause me to think, my answers cause you to think in opposite or in like kind. But together we progress!
Thank you,
t3t4
Here is my basic circuit. You can start with this and do amazing things if you wish. The value of the caps are not important for anything other than tuning. Just use two of the same value and you'll be fine. Super caps may be beneficial, I have not tried them as of yet.
Download pic here: http://rapidshare.com/files/270421698/Radiant_space_energy.zip.html (http://rapidshare.com/files/270421698/Radiant_space_energy.zip.html)
Sorry, but I don't know how to get this simple image into this post. At least all my attempts have not shown up in preview, so I assume the image is not present, hens the link.
Thank you,
t3t4
Well, I guess it did show up in the post. Why could I not see this in preview?
t3t4
I like this, so I'm going to start in the middle and work forwards and backwards from this point.
Quote@ t3t4
How do you do it? I have tried this many times because others have reported similar results to yours. But every time I try this I only get millivolts. Not even enough to rectify with a diode. Please note, I do not doubt your results. I am just frustrated I can not get similar results. Thank you for sharing your results.
@xee2I do this perhaps by location, so the more that try, the more we can rule this theory out. But mostly I do this by perseverance and determination. I want it bad enough and won't let it go until I reach my objective. Or until I reach a point of diminishing return. There is no payday for the time I have already spent on this, but the many amazement's along the way as well as the smiles or smirks, that right there makes this endeavor more then worth the hardship. At least for me they do.
Thank you,
t3t4
Greetings,
@jeanna specifically.I will do my best here to focus just on you. I know I have mentioned many things to many people, mostly non-specific. I will do my best here to just speak to you.
It sounds from what I read in your post, that you know what your doing. All I can suggest to you, is always keep an open mind. By doing so we all benefit. Be careful of what you read. The human mind is very impressionable!
Test and prove, that's what science is all about and is exactly what I have read from you thus far. Good job!
In regards to the scope you are using, I apologize, I did not mean any offense. I did not know it was analog based since I could not see the model number. But from what you and others have reported, my opinion is this: You don't have enough resolution with that scope. If you are digital in any way, then you should be in the GHZ range to get proper reading in the MHZ range. Rule of thumb for scopes, shoot for 5 time more then the sample you want to capture, if not more.
My scope is a TEK 2235 which is a 100 MHZ unit. It's nothing special, but it is analog, almost purely. But still not enough for the tests I'd like to perform. I too need to be in the GHZ range, but this you won't find by analog means let alone at a reasonable price. So we use what we use, plain and simple.
QuoteThanks for the confirmation on the frequency. You are the first in 2 weeks of asking!
I agree, but resonance with what?
I think we should be aiming to resonate with what is naturally occurring.
Why would we aim for something a rumor told us?
I see 2.22-2,5MHz from a single wave every time.
My thoughts here are basic, nothing more. I have been working on this for a long time now and I still do not know! But I'm thinking in terms of the Tesla coil. So resonate with what? Another coil, or another body?
My best guess, these coils should resonate with two terrestrial bodies. But which two? I think the earth and the sun would be a firm place to start. Given all space in the region, we (earth/sun) are the two closest bodies. So why not use that to our advantage? We already know that both exhibit severe magnetic fields, right? So as I mentioned in one of my first posts, run a magnet along a copper wire and you induce an electron flow. The planets seem to work as magnets to me. I am drawn to them by means of theory, but they or something else return the favor in terms of energy. My bet is the planets/stars out there is where the bulk of this energy comes from. I see it all as spinning magnets. If this is true, then there truly is endless power at our finger tips. We then just have to reach for it!
What I do know is this: Drop a coin into a pond, the point of impact creates a splash, but at the same time a ripple is also created. This ripple is small at the point of impact, but grows in accordance to the size of the pond. The further away from the point of impact, the slower the waves become. Yes? You can see this in your mind, right? Well, then spread this out over the entire surface of the world. That's one gargantuan pond! But the further the wave traves, the more is slows. It does this because the wave is expanding in all directions. The further you go, the weaker and slow the wave. How much energy can you expect from a coin? It only has just so much mass, it can only displace just so much water. The energy displaced wears out over surface area. Hens the ripple in the pond.
But what if you had multiple coins and multiple ponds? What if you dropped one coin in one pond every millisecond of every day? Could you get a consistent frequency from an event such as this? Now, imagine the earth is just a pond, but it's being hit with magnetic coins or pulses from all over the world. Can you imagine the ripple this creates? The problem is: you have to remember the coin in the pond scenario. The ripple is small at the point of impact. What this wave turnes into over the surface of the planet is something else entirely. Hens, the 6 HZ theory. This is also known as the woodpecker something or other, or constant heart beat of the planet. It's real, you just have to test in the correct way to see it.
QuoteHave you used coils? You are using a cap. Why not add a coil? Don't you want AC?
I do use coils, that is where I began this project. but unless you have at least one coil resonating with something, you equal nothing in the end!
No, I do not wan't AC. I say this because any store bought equipment cannot function on 5 MHZ let alone 6 HZ AC. That would all be useless to us unless we can capture the energy and store it for a later time. We need batteries or resonance and then a converter in either case to make this system work for us using modern day equipment. Everything we buy is either powered DC or AC. If it's AC, then it either runs on 50 HZ or 60 HZ. If it's DC, the frequency does not matter since the energy is simply stored. Even power supplies store the energy before they feed it to you. There simply is no way around this fact as of yet!
I choose to store and use, not to use directly, since nothing we currently own can run on this power from the sky or from the ground. It's all a convergence of energy, but where to put it? I dump it into batteries for later use, but that's just me. Yes you can run LED's from this, but you guys/gals are already doing that. But is this real work? It's real light, sure, but is it doing work for you or is it just providing an illuminating service?
Yeah, that's a thine line, I'm not about to cross it. But it is something I ponder at times.
QuoteSo far any time I add a diode anywhere in any direction it kills it. dead.
nothing . as soon as I go inside the diode I can detect something.
Right now I have a capacitor connected to the earth south probe and it is collecting 0.065v egads,. not much!
Are you sure you are not getting a bleed through from your electricity line?
I/we can never be sure that we are not inducing at least something from the electric company! But since they won't quite, neither will I... Can't honestly say that I'm too proud to steal from them. I certainly know how to do it, but that is not what this experiment is about. So you'll have to take my word that I'm being honest and thorough with my tests. But in all honesty, unless we eliminate the electric company in all areas, how could we ever know for sure this energy is just from the earth and not one of the earths industrial facilities?
Just food for thought....
QuoteQuote
...probe to my head in the temple Region. .. But I'm sure you will see that you are emitting the same basic pattern as the earth.
I did that on the first day I had my scope, and that is how I was sure my scope functioned. I agree it is heartbeat-like, but ony when I have the 2 NS (Nathan Stubblefield) coils attached. Using only one gets a less complicated wave at 2.2-2.5 Mhz not 5 MHz.
I'm not using coils when performing this test. This may be the difference in resolution between our two scopes. But I perform this test un-grounded using the positive probe only. I find this interesting, maybe you will too. Just take the positive tip of the probe and touch your head. I prefer the temple region, but anywhere seems to work. Take a base reading while watching the screen, then, think about something and note the difference. If you think hard enough, you can get a reading of 1 volt or more.... Your thoughts can change the wave form as well as voltage. A little bit of concentration is all that is required for this test.
But in a relaxed state, we humans look the same to a scope as the planet earth, at least on my scope we do. I find this infinitely fascinating. As I'm sure you and everyone else knows already, never touch the probes while testing, it screws up all readings because the human body induces voltage into whatever it touches. So always stay insulated while testing anything.
Ok, that's enough for now.
Good night everyone.
t3t4
Jeanna
Thank you for giving me that shopping list.
I have not yet placed my order but plan to, soon. I am also interested in the scope. I am not sure which scope to get so could use some help here in which scope is the best.
Digital vs. Analog? Ghz???
Also, has anyone used the scope in a deep hole yet? Would it make any difference?
kukulcangod said:
Quote
Hey guys
I need help here , recently I traveled to a location where I was able to prove that the aerial/antenna set up from Tesla gives out energy, thing is ......
...but then again I am just getting a couple of volts from the joule thief, how do we get a small electric motor to run from it and the earth battery?
...anyway take a look at this please :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qd2mSkQ_uog
I looked at the video and saw the output readings.
I'd say:
1) The narrator is in a fairly large city in Latin America(by his accent) or Spain with 50/60 Hz power everywhere. This would affect his reading to some extent, I think. He's getting part of his output from somewhere, right? Lot's of watts available in the house wiring.
2) The tower looks to be about 50' high on the roof, with another 20-25' to the copper pipe beaten into the ground. He says he gets 85-120 V @ 1-3 milliamps.
This looks a lot like electret static electricity to me. He needs several hundred feet and a spark plug to a HV transformer to obtain useful power output.
Otherwise, it's a really simple setup. Anyone can do it. I have a small digital VOM, 200 feet of 28-30 Ga. Radio Shack magnet wire, and a stiff piece of steel from a busted windshield wiper blade for a ground connection.
I'll start looking into places like hilltops here in San Francisco to run my own test(s).
--Lee
I myself have been looking at these 2 units. If someone sees something better let me know.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360144935966&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
50MHZ 3 year warranty. Sample rate is 1 GSa/s (Single Channel), 500 MSa/s (Dual Channels)
This is strictly an AC benchtop and not portable. Just about $400. Cheapest price Ive seen on the net for this unit as its straight from the overseas manufacturer.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170361338511&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
25 mhz 3 year warranty. It can be made portable as well as AC. $320 Sample rate is 100MS/s
Given the price difference plus a big difference in bandwidth and sample rate as well as rise time, The 50MHZ seems a much better deal. You lose the portability but I have a portable generator, so if need be I could use that. As it stands my bench is in the garage and the eb setup is right outside on the same wall. So I can have mine hooked up constantly. The 50 Mhz would also give you an edge if doing higher frequency's for other projects.
Lee,
I am so glad to hear you will be able to join in with the datalogging!!
Please remember to report that part to the datalogging thread. It makes it easier when it is all together.
DonL,
interesting about the very slow frequency. I will look for it more
@Kukulcangod,
I know it is a long read, but the joule thief thread is all about exactly that.
Maybe if you were to watch my videos and see what I am doing with just the pulses from the secondary of a joule thief, that would help some.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4IMgDRGpHE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4IMgDRGpHE)
That is the first of 5 related to this.
I hope it helps some, but there is really no substitute for reading the whole thing.
sorry, but that is because there is so much that relates to the use of the pulses and the use of a secondary.
t3t4
I am having a terrible time reading this thread because the picture you posted is so enormous,
that I must scroll left and right to read the words because stephan un-did something that used to prevent this.
So, from memory,
I did exactly what you did when I got my scope. I was not getting 5Mhz from me, that is from the earth. I watched with fascination at my own frequency and waves. just the probe.
I did not know for weeks what the ground clip was for.
I may not be able to see a scope window that shows the high MHz frequency up close,
but it is easily seen when viewing the whole wave from a lower frequency.
What I have never seen is a wave at 6-8Hz.
I will look again.
I have a capacitor outside collecting from the geodesic dome frame plus the NStubblefield battery.
It is collecting 1mv per 2 hours and overnight went from 65mv to 74mv. Pretty slow. Pretty low.
I believe the 20 foot dome frame should work.
What it did, is it made the volts show less and the amps show more on the dmm.
The peaks on the scope might have gotten a little higher too.
I won't say that for sure for a while, but maybe.
I am not interested in collecting the naturally occurring AC from all around and rectifying it and storing it to later be inverted.
Thank you for your drawing.
I can try it once again.
I just suspect that the reason I don't get the volts is because I do not have the bleed that you and others have.
If the power grid were to go down for 3 weeks in the winter, would you be without any lighting?
I would not be.
@protonmom,
I would buy the HPS40 since the sample rate is 40MHz.
I did not realize that when I bought mine.
It has other advantages for a person running MS op sys. it can be used and viewed through the computer.
It is more expensive, and yesterday I learned why.
So, it is very portable and priced really well, but instead of 189 for the HPS10, I would say spend 250 or whatever for the HPS40.
Or look at what iotayodi is recommending. I just stopped at the end of the pocketbook so, I really do not know.
jeanna
Quote from: IotaYodi on August 23, 2009, 01:09:17 PM
The 50 hz would also give you an edge if doing higher frequency's for other projects.
Is this going to give you the proper frequency read-out?
I thought the internal working formulas of the scope would be based on 50 hz.
So when you are feeding it 60hz, and it thinks it is getting 50, it would give the wrong numbers?
Like having a dying battery on a DMM, you see higher voltage readings on the screen because there is some kind of internal comparison formula??
jeanna
QuoteIs this going to give you the proper frequency read-out?
Thats a typo. It should read 50 Mhz. I fixed it.
I was getting those readings I just added a second video I recorded 2 days later and I remember now getting more than 200 maH , my time was limited due to traveling schedules , so I got what I could ,it is basically the same but I need to add that I know that the wall hook was isolated from the wall and that the support wire from the tower more surely not, anyway , can you help me out with a diagram to try to get some usefull energy out of this set up? thanks for the suggestion about a coil? to get a spark ? not quite sure about how to set it all up, Thanks
the video is here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjEXS8BC8iU
jeanna said:
Quote
Lee,
I am so glad to hear you will be able to join in with the datalogging!!
@jeanna
You betcha. I went out this morning and scouted two sites with hilltops(one very high---the locally famous Strawberry Hill, 500-600 ft high. Also, another smaller one further away on the same bus line. I'll string 200-400 ft of magnet wire in a line up the hill and measure from there. Privacy is key. Homeland Security and the cops are always suspicious of everything nowadays.
Quote
Please remember to report that part to the datalogging thread. It makes it easier when it is all together.
Okay. I'll do it on a foggy day and a clear day(less humidity). This could be important. In the desert winter where I used to live; Tucson, AZ, static electricity from very dry, cool air in the Wal-Mart shocked me and others
Just walking down the aisle pushing an aluminum & steel shopping cart. Really! That stings. >:( ::) Just be more careful pushing the cart. :-\
Just a heads-up for everyone: Dry air usually means more electricity from an aerial system.
--Lee
That is true, the more moisture the less voltage/current you receive. But if you just want to run experiments on a very small scale without getting noticed, you can use your current ground rods and a simple piece of aluminum foil on top of something like a bird feeder.
I don't know why, but geodesic shapes don't work well for aerials, at least not in this case. I've used everything from my car to my gas grill on the receiving end, but nothing I've tried works as well as horizontal wire in the sky. Although I have noticed that shinny metals such as aluminum foil are almost just as good. To get more power from the aerial, simply go higher. Even on a very small scale set up, you will probably see this voltage/charge build up exponentially and it doesn't stop until you create a load or until the capacitor can't handle any more and gives way.
It only takes 0.010 of a volt it seems to accumulate many volts worth of charge. It's like a leaking faucet really. You put a bowel under the leaking faucet and go to bed. Even though the faucet is just a slow drip, you wake up to a full bowel in the morning. This system works exactly like that which is something I still can't quite understand.
Have fun with this, I think you'll like it!
t3t4
Quote from: kukulcangod on August 23, 2009, 03:41:30 PM
I was getting those readings I just added a second video I recorded 2 days later and I remember now getting more than 200 maH , my time was limited due to traveling schedules , so I got what I could ,it is basically the same but I need to add that I know that the wall hook was isolated from the wall and that the support wire from the tower more surely not, anyway , can you help me out with a diagram to try to get some usefull energy out of this set up? thanks for the suggestion about a coil? to get a spark ? not quite sure about how to set it all up, Thanks
the video is here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjEXS8BC8iU
Youtube is so slow today.
Great job on the video, K-god,
So, you have hooked the circuit to the radio tower receiver.
There are many frequencies that are all around that are not that particular radio station.So, I assume you are just picking up everything from all around. This should mean that if the grid goes down, you will still have power from this source. (not the ether, but the cosmic radiations that are all around and coming at us from other galaxies.)
So, your circuit has capacitors on the antenna side and on the ground side too?
the diodes. I guess this is like what t3t4 showed last night?
So, you can buy a lot of batteries and store it in them, then buy an inverter, or
maybe you could learn about coils and how to make the 90 volts oscillate .
Once you get that oscillation going you can think more about how to get it to 110 volts.
Is that what your country uses? 110v?
You have 90 volts! are so close!
jeanna
edit
@Iotayodi,
Thanks for the correction. (I am a bad typer... I understand :D)
Quote from: t3t4 on August 23, 2009, 06:09:56 PM
I don't know why, but geodesic shapes don't work well for aerials, at least not in this case.
It only takes 0.010 of a volt it seems to accumulate many volts worth of charge. It's like a leaking faucet really. You put a bowel under the leaking faucet and go to bed. Even though the faucet is just a slow drip, you wake up to a full bowel in the morning. This system works exactly like that which is something I still can't quite understand.
t3t4
I sure would like to see a (small) picture of your set up and the volts and what it powers.
(I am not sure how big the page is but my guess is 300pixels wide would fit into the screen pretty well.)
I am game to add aluminum foil to my antenna, but I wonder if you have watched the volts go down as the amps go up?
I am seeing that and Bill got that last year, so I do not question my results on that.
I guess the drip on my faucet is really slow. 1/2 millivolt per hour.
Each time there is a positive pulse from the wire to the cap the cap collects it. If it is a spike it collects that higher voltage. There was some discussion about leaving it there longer and you pick up more farads so it seems like amps because they (farads and amps) both measure the passage of joules over time.
I will check my bowl and see what it has collected since this morning. It will be quite useless if it only collects 0.9v which is what the meter says is there. I won't know for a long time, I think. Meantime I am learning about coils...
jeanna
@ kukulcangod
That looks like an AM station transmitting tower that you are next to. Have you gone over to see how much power they are transmitting?
Sure, I can get a picture package together so you guys can see exactly what I'm doing. I'll work on that tomorrow. But I'll just load them into a .ZIP file and you guys can download it. This way I won't cause a site issue or show crappy low res pic's. I wish I had a video camera, then I could show and tell in real time.
Anyway, jeanna, if your not using a diode in your circuit, then you won't be able to store a charge. The source of energy is also a load, so if you can't trap it, the earth/sky will just give it to you and take it right back. Just build the basic circuit I posted out of any junk parts you have around the home. This is really all it takes to charge batteries. I'm working on going beyond this, but I've been working on it for a couple of years now. Point is: don't spend more then you have to. This half dumb little system works really well and typically can be done for zero cost out of junk laying around the home.
Just remember, the earth is a spinning magnet, so it's both positive and negative. I do believe it's quite possible to store both sides of the wave. The circuit diagram I provided is the least complicated and lowest cost way I can think of to make this happen. So give it a shot and let me know how you make out. But if you do what I'm doing and add it to what you guys are doing, it should be like compounded interest in the end. Show me da money.....
That's why I began posting in this thread, I can take what you have learned and apply it to my little project and you can do the same. I'm quite sure this system will compound together nicely. But it's easier for you guys to adapt my project, since most of you already have Magnesium and Carbon, and I do not. I'll see if I can thief some somewhere, otherwise I'll have to buy it I guess.
t3t4
@ t3t4 & ueanna
If you happen to have a chance to get some germanium diodes such as the 1N34A, you should get even more voltage into your capacitors.
OK t3t4,
we will see.
jeanna
========
edit add
OK
I see an increase already!!!!!
I posted that when I finished the setup then 15 minutes later checked.
2 AAA's
one 1169v this has more voltage so it probably won't charge until the other catches up.
one 939v at beginning
then 948v after an hour
now 956v after another hour
Sun's down. Maybe I will be able to see one more check in half hour.
Wow, finally I got this idea to work!
Thank you
t3t4 !!!!
jeanna
@Xee2,
Thanks for the suggestion. I have been working to optimize my component set (albeit slowly) by using more and more efficient parts. I am also making this system adjustable using variable caps and inductors. Yeah, I guess I'm building a half assed radio of sorts, but I'm shooting for an adjustable receiver and resonator. I want to get this device tunable at two different frequency levels. I had forgotten about the germanium diode, I was thinking in a different direction. Thanks for the reminder!
@jeanna
Are you charging batteries already?
If so, that's awesome! But no need to thank me, thank Tesla. This is his work, I'm just mixing in a little bit of "Thomas Henry moray" with it. These two guys had fully functional systems. We're just playing around with something they perfected years ago. But even when we get it wrong, it's still useful power and can certainly do real work. If you ask me, it's pretty much the ultimate free energy machine. You can get the parts required for free, the circuit is simple enough, it's fun to play with and easy to replicate the results. And, we can all charge batteries with it right away. It just works, always!
So keep playing with it and see if you can find a better design. I have been working with a lot of coils and different capacitors. The smaller the Uf rating, the faster the charge. I think a .01 -10 Uf cap is ideal. But this system works on any cap really. I have been able to smooth out the wave from the aerial to achieve a nice looking 33 Hz AC signal. But that's only just one part of it, I'm still working on it. I wish I had unlimited resources, this would all be much easier then!
Anyway, have fun and do please keep me updated.
Thank you,
t3t4
@ t3t4
Quote from: t3t4 on August 23, 2009, 11:56:40 PM
I have been working to optimize my component set
You may already know this. But just in case. Capacitors, especially eletrolytics, have internal resistance that drains charge over time. The capacitors that will hold a charge the longest are mica caps.
Quote from: xee2 on August 24, 2009, 12:23:08 AM
@ t3t4
The capacitors that will hold a charge the longest are mica caps.
Tesla's Radiant Energy patent calls for the use of a good quality mica capacitor. Following patents precisely is important.
DonL
Thanks Xee2,
I'll take any info that anyone want's to provide, I am an electronic tinkerer, not a guru or a master and I have probably forgotten more then I will ever know again. Reminders and/or new information are always welcomed. I have used a pair of silver mica caps in this experiment, but I only had two and their the ones that blew out. I'll get some more one of these days, but I doubt I'll be able to recreate the experiment the exact same way.
I'm good at typing, but very bad for not writing things down. You know what I mean? I have also played around with making my own caps, albeit with varied results. However, beer bottles work well for dielectric purposes and their a lot of fun to acquire... Yeah, I really like the beer capacitor.
@Dllabarre
I don't remember the patent being quite so specific. But it has been well over a year since I have read it, so that's plenty of time to forget. Are you running this experiment? If so, then with better or worse results?
I don't recall Tesla mentioning this system can do what I'm trying to do with it, but Moray did. The secret to Tesla's electric car and ball lightning, as well as Moray's 500+ watts must lie somewhere in this simple experiment. Or at least that is what I have deduced, which does not make it fact at all, but to me, it just makes sense. I have followed the recipe/patent to the best of my ability. That is why I am using old age technology as much as possible. But learning 100 different ways to fail is more educational and brings greater understanding when you find the one way to succeed.
So I'm trying everything I can think of to learn in the process. Like I mentioned before, even when you get this system wrong, it still provides real usable power and can do real work. So even a failure is a success.
I am certainly open to any ideas or suggestions that anyone might have, so let know your thoughts and we'll go from there.
Thanks,
t3t4
@ t3t4
Quote from: t3t4 on August 24, 2009, 02:07:04 PM
I have used a pair of silver mica caps in this experiment, but I only had two and their the ones that blew out.
They will take 500 volts, so they must have been out in a thunderstorm. Eventually you may want to put a surge protection diode around your circuit for protection in storms.
But that is not why I am writing. You showed the capacitors connected to the antenna in your diagram. I would have put the capacitors to ground. Have you found it works better when the capacitors are connected to the antenna?
That might be what I was doing wrong.
@t3t4
I assume you're regarding patent 685,957....
When referring to the condenser (capacitor's were called condensers back then) N.Tesla states: "I use, by preference, the best quality mica as dielectric".
Being that mica capacitors are easy to obtain these days I feel they should be used in following the patent.
Just MHO... no offense to anyone.
DonL
Quote from: t3t4 on August 23, 2009, 11:56:40 PM
@jeanna
Are you charging batteries already?
If so, that's awesome! But no need to thank me, thank Tesla.
Yup.
And I
will thank you. I have already thanked Tesla for other things.
I was not able to get this to work any other time.
So, thank you.
I used 2, 47uF can electrolytic caps. I got a bunch of caps once to satisfy a minimum order. I have been able to use most of them. So, I used these because they are rated for 100v
I also have some cameras that have the foil cap, but I prefer knowing the part so I can repeat my results. (I have a hard time repeating even my results because the urge to tweak is very great in me! ;) )
QuoteAnyway, have fun and do please keep me updated.
Oh yes, I nearly forgot.
I grabbed a 2 AAA battery holder and used it as is, so I put 2 AAA in it.
One battery had
1169v
and the other had 939-940v
at the start.
I checked in 15 minutes, and found an increase had already begun.
The high one as expected had not changed, but the 940v was now at
948v
After the sun was down it really slowed down a lot!! Much more than I had expected from other people's comments.
At 8:21PM the 2 batteries showed:
1169v (still unchanged) and
960v --- so this had increased by 20mv in 2 hours.
I got up really late today and the sun had been on the al plate for 2 hours at least.
1177v (so it did change by 8mv) and
990v -- up 30mv since 8:20PM
then at 12:30
1179v
and
1003v
So, this is a total of 10mv in the one and
64mv in the other = 74mv in 16 hours
This is very cool.
It may be the only way I can light a led from the earth source.
Now,
What inductors and where?Tell me about the inductors, please?
jeanna
If you literally turn this circuit up side down, you lose the bulk of your potential. It's the earth and the ionosphere that are the positive and negative of this device. But the bulk of the energy seems to come from the sky, not from ground. Since this circuit basically does nothing more then capture energy, all you want to do is capture as much as possible. Voltage is energy, and the further away from the surface of the earth you go, the more voltage you get. So in this circuit, we're using the voltage as energy to be collected, but we're using the capacitors as a storage bank for the current.
Current is what does the real work, the voltage just looks cool on a meter, but otherwise does nothing. So, if I am correct here in my theory, by turning this circuit up side down, you cut it's capacity in half. Anyway, I have tried this and it didn't do well at all. I have tried probably 1000 different combination's thus far, some work and most don't. In the Tesla Radiant energy patent, he shows in pictorial form, a plate leading to a capacitor, then leading to ground. It does not show how to capture the energy within the capacitor aside from a spark gap which is still a crude capacitor. So I have to wonder sometimes.... But he loved to use spark gaps which is something I do not currently use.
I know from experience now, what the earth giveth, it takes away! Unless you can capture it somehow. This little circuit does well, very well in fact, because it stores and/or pulls energy from both sides of the magnetic field. This circuit provides a conduit for an electron flow in two directions, and it captures electrons in the process. But it is nowhere near the solution as to how we can all live from this energy. This circuit is only one way of doing it, and if you charge enough batteries, then I guess you could live off this system. It's just an easily repeatable experiment that actually works every time.
But anyway, thanks for thinking about this. Your question made me think about how this all works again, and that's a very needed thing. Sometimes I get so stuck on just one part that I lose sight of the rest.
Also, keep in mind the difference between polar and non-polar caps, I'm sure you are quite aware of this. But what I am not sure of is if they are helpful or hurtful, but it's a theory I am currently exploring. A polar cap is resistive to electrons in one direction but conductive in the other. Could a polarized cap also serve as a diode? I don't know, but it's a thought I'm working on.
Anyway, keep the ideas coming, run this experiment cheaply and have fun with it. I've been having a great deal of fun with all this and now that I seem to have a think tank on my side, maybe we can make some real progress aside from simply charging batteries.
Thanks again,
t3t4
I took my good old time in the last reply, but I didn't realize there were replies sent in the process. So let me back up a little so everyone know who I'm speaking/typing to.
My last reply was to all, but was in reply to Xee2.
@DonL (aka) dllabarre
Yes, patent #685,957 is what I am referring to, among others. What I focus on specifically as best I can describe here, is not any one specific invention or discovery, but rather the entire "culmination" of Tesla's work. But I take no offense to you simply asking a question or to you offering an opinion. If we're not all here on this site to think, discuss and to learn, then why are here?
No worries DonL....
@jeannaQuoteAnd I will thank you. I have already thanked Tesla for other things.
I was not able to get this to work any other time.
So, thank you.
Well, I accept, but only humbly so. This is my working field currently, but it is not my work. I have only combined and modified what some others have long since already done. And honestly, that might not even be true. I can't read everything ya know, so who knows how many others have already perfected this device. All I know right now is, none that I am aware of in current day times or otherwise still alive have perfected this devise for public use.
So all I'm still doing is using the dead guys work. And by guys, I mean it in the plural sense, meaning multiple people.
QuoteI used 2, 47uF can electrolytic caps
I use electrolytic caps now, but I use 220 uF in my original build. There is a trade off with capacitance, this is something that needs further exploration. But for a fast charge, use caps rated between .001 and 10 uF. That's just my advice, which does not mean it's correct!
QuoteNow,
What inductors and where?
Tell me about the inductors, please?
Honestly jeanna, you have already caught up to me. You have the basic circuit and the basic understanding. Now all you have to do is play! This will take some time to fully explain, so I'll get to the specifics in a later post. But for right now, all you really need to experiment with is different aerials and different material. It may sound a bit depressing right now, but wait, I'll get to the particulars in a later post. You live out west and I'm here in the east, the fact that we both can do the same thing tells me it's not location dependent.
That right there is a wealth of information to me, since I have only been running on theory and speculation verses my own test results. Now at least I have a few to back me up.
The more the merrier! Anyway, your results are good, but it sounds like the charge is slowing down, hopefully I can help you do much better. After-all, you are closer to a major body of water then I, so you can extract more easily things that I cannot. I'll do my best jeanna to help you exceed my results. This is exactly why I am concerned about location. We all have different elements available to us in different points on the globe.
Thanks to all,,,,
t3t4
Hi everybody,
It seems that I have maxed out my voltage pressure at about 2.2volts.
I have 2 batteries which have not gained more than 1mv each for the last hour, so 1.178v and 1.012v.
I guess I need to get the al plate higher to fill these batteries to be full.
I will wait til tomorrow, however and let the farads come in so the charge will last. Then I will get a ladder (I don't like going there) and put the foil up to the roof level , which is only about 10 feet. The problem there is checking the battery because it will be to high for me.
I don't know how deep I am.
I dug a hole and lowered a galvanized pail into the hole and filled the pail with the dirt then affixed the wire to the bail. I don't know if it is the bail at the surface or the bottom of the pail 16 inches below the surface that counts for pressure. I am hoping/assuming it is the bottom of the pail.
I wonder if I should wet this??
Any ideas t3t4?
But,
I will wait for another day in direct sun to see if and how much more will go into the batteries before I change any of this.
The supercap connected between the EB N and S is creeping up 1/2v/hour.
I better take it off and do some datalogging. Maybe I will do that tomorrow too. Unless Jim has more to share today and we can check it out simultaneously. I like that global idea.
jeanna
QuoteAfter-all, you are closer to a major body of water then I, so you can extract more easily things that I cannot.
How close do you have to be? Im about 50 miles from the gulf. I do have a pond.
When I get my scope I may try a different kind of aerial scheme but it may not work.
I have about 8 acres of galvanized barb wire fence which is tied into another 100 acres of barb wire fence. Fence lines are usually 4 to 5 strands. Im thinking I may use jumpers to tie all 5 strands together. On 8 acres thats about 1664 feet just in one strand.
hmm
roasted wild rabbit all over!
:D ;D
jeanna
Greetings to all fellow experimenters, but to all in general as well. This will be a rather long post, so I will do my best to simply stick to the point.
This experiment is simple as I understand it, but that does not mean my theories are correct. I can only speak of what I have tested thus far. I simply start with the highest AC voltage I can obtain and then feed that into storage capacitors, and then from that, simply charge batteries. That's all there is to it. But maybe there is more then meets the eye. I have looked over all the Tesla patents, all that are available anyway. I see a common pattern within them. Maybe I'm smoking crack, but everything he did mostly relied upon a resonant factor. So, this is my theory below.
The aerial in the sky came from Moray when I say to use wire, the rest is pure Tesla with a bit of Moray mixed in here and there. These two researchers/experimenters alone are all we need. But focus is required. There are so many "so-called" free energy devices out there today that it's totally ridiculous.... I'm all for over-unity! But not at a cost!
True over-unity to me at least, is when you put nothing in but time and gain something truly usable in return (also known as free energy). Time does not equal energy, so if you look at things from that perspective, you gain everything you need, but only lost a few heart beats in return as the total cost. Perhaps my view is twisted, but this is the place to share viewpoints, is it not?
So let's cover the basics here. The earth has a rotating magnetic field. Is it the earth itself or is it the earth in correlation to or with other planets in our solar system that causes this reaction? Truth is as I see it, I just don't care which is what.... All I know and focus upon is the fact that we know there are magnetic fields on or within this planet. We also know that if we draw a magnet across a copper wire that it will induce an electron flow in terms of an electrical output. Correct?
So, if this is true, then by using an already existent magnetic field, we should be able to attract or otherwise capture this energy!
So in my humble opinion, this is exactly how the radiant energy device functions. It just simply attracts or otherwise captures electrons. Regardless of weather or not these electrons are free radicals, they all have either a positive or a negative polarity. If that is true, then a positive will be drawn into a negative and vise versa. When you have a greater potential in any one area, you see the weaker of all potentials are drawn to the strongest. I don't know why it is, but it just is that way!
You can see the same thing in nature, within animals, insects, trees and even water. It all moves towards the strongest force. Again, I don't know why, I only know that it happens. So if we can attract a weak electron, then we should be able to attract a strong one in like kind. This is where the real power lies, if you ask me that is. This is all just theory, so do please correct me if I am incorrect! But what we see on an oscilloscope is something quite interesting. What you find are multiple wave forms, some from the earth, some from the sky and some from man made industry. So how do you discern one from the other?
The answer goes beyond the scope of this post.
I can only tell you all what I have seen along with my own theories. I cannot and will not tell you B.S. I have nothing yet to prove concept that I can show to you, so I guess you'll just have to trust me on this. But I'm working on it, I will have a packet of pics you can download soon. Point is: If the theories are correct and you know some of them already via your own earth battery experiments, then going from earth to sky should be easy for the most part.
So the spinning magnet (the earth) creates a magnetic field which our receiver/aerial can attract. This attraction of energy must have some place to go, otherwise it will not be attracted. So now we need a load. This load can be anything, but what we are using in the diagram I previously provided, are the capacitors as the load. These are what draw the energy in, not the aerial. The aerial is simply a conduit to the source of the load. So if this is true, then all we have to do is attract a few weak electrons in order to attract some strong electrons, which in turn attract more weak electrons and then some more strong electrons.
I'm sticking to the point as best I can, but I just want to make sure everyone understands my theory! It's coming up, no worries....
Here we go, and this is what I'm focused upon right now: "If" these electrons all have different vibrational frequencies due to the physical size of the molecule or electron, then what size molecule equals a strong electron? Are they all the same size? If so, then why are some stronger then others? And most importantly here.... Does size equal strength? Yeah size matters I guess in terms of (), you know what I mean, but how about molecules and/or electrons? How much potential truly exists? You see, I'm full of questions as well! My theory is: electrons are variable in size and therefor in frequency as well. I don't know what some of you have read let alone what you know, but if this theory is un-true, then why does a difference in weather condition change the results of this simple little device? I have many theories that might explain this, but that's another story.
So, if we all understand there is a gigantic magnet beneath our feet, then what can we do with it? As I see it, we can attract the electrons from both the earth and the ionosphere and collect them to use for our purposes. But if the electrons are all different sizes and with different potentials, then what? This is where resonance comes in.
If you find the strong electrons on the correct vibrational frequency, you can then attract them. All you have to do is tune your device to their vibrational frequency, but slightly out of phase so as to be weaker then they are. Don't look for them, force them to come to you! Then, simply collect these electrons someway, somehow. And then the question, so how to do it all? I don't know, this is what I'm working on currently among other things. I'm just trying to tell you all exactly where I'm at and how I got here, all the while sticking to the point as best I can. It's hard to do I assure you, as I tend to ramble a bit!
All I do know is this, every molecule has a vibrational or resonant frequency. If you can find it and prove it, then your way beyond me! But what if you do find it, what then? There are so many ways of doing this I can't even begin to mention them all. But I'm thinking in terms of a simple tank circuit just as Tesla used. Now, what if you used multiple tank circuits? What then? You know a tank circuit resonating at the proper frequency acts like a voltage multiplier, correct? Either voltage or amperage, I can't remember cause it's been so long since I've hit resonance that the numbers in my head are gone! What I can remember is this: If you hit resonance, you can feed that into another circuit that will resonate at a slightly different frequency, and then again and so on from that point....
Each time stepping it up. Until you reach the point of diminishing return that is. Which is to say that when you begin to lose something, you stop! Efficiency is not my concern at this point, but utilization is the prime factor. But never spend more then you have to, and I'm not speaking in terms of pure money. I talking about pure energy. Even a sloppy system works, why is that? Are my theories correct? This is only "my" extrapolation from things I have read verses my own test results, I don't know for fact in either case. All I can tell you are my theories. Even in pictorial form I cannot prove some of the things I have mentioned above. However, prove my results I will do! But I have told you guys enough for one post. But rest assured, there is no magic here. It's all science to the best of my understanding. So do please correct me if I am incorrect with anything I've said above.
There will be a "part two" for this post, but in the mean time.... I need a break....
t3t4
t3t4
Thank you for going to all the trouble to explain yourself.
I think it opens up a big can of sometimes nasty worms to even begin to discuss someone's theory.
I appreciate your efforts and I am sure others do as well.
I am curious about what you have been able to gain in your battery.
Mine stopped well short of 3 volts. I had 1 square foot of Al foil on the outside east facing wall of my house and I added 3 more square feet to that and as of one hour later, there was no increase. This additional acreage of foil brought the top up by one foot as well.
I checked the caps and they were working away but each cap topped at the voltage I was seeing in its respective battery. Then later, because I do it all the time, I added a little water to the ground in and around the zinc coated pail.
My total is about 2.2volts for the day with my set up.
How does that compare with what you get?
You have not yet actually said what you are getting. (unless I missed the post.)
thank you for your work and your sharing it with us,
jeanna
jeanna said:
Quote
Lee,
I am so glad to hear you will be able to join in with the datalogging!!
Please remember to report that part to the datalogging thread. It makes it easier when it is all together.
@jeanna
Okay, here goes:
I went to a small(75 yd X 75 yd) urban park on a hill surrounded by houses in S.F. and then uncoiled 200' of enamel magnet wire onto well-watered, grassy ground that was soaked in spots. Got nothing on my digital Radio Shack VOM, as I expected(AC, that is). This was practice to see how much effort would be required to achieve test results.
I didn't stick around long, since people were walking their dogs after I arrived. What I'll do next is: pick a path in a bigger park
and drape the wire over things like bushes and dead weeds so it's not touching the ground. On a weekend like Sunday, too, when people get ready to turn early for work the next day.
(Bear in mind that Californians are a peculiar bunch and I don't trust their unpredictable reaction to seeing what, potentially, they wouldn't understand. They might call the cops on me out of fear. Human nature, I think.
There are other, better places to do this.)
I should post my next
definite test result on the datalogging thread when I put my Mandriva disk in the disk drive. It has no 'Net Nanny' on it to bother me on this computer. Other computer I use aren't a problem.
--Lee
@jeanna,
QuoteMy total is about 2.2volts for the day with my set up.
How does that compare with what you get?
You have not yet actually said what you are getting. (unless I missed the post.)
thank you for your work and your sharing it with us,
You are quite welcome! All I can say is this: I'd tell you here, but I prefer to let the pic's speak for themselves. If I spit out too many numbers in one shot, most won't believe, let alone listen. But I will show my basic/first completed circuit as well as my location. There will be keynotes and all pertinent information will be included in the description.
I hope you understand, I'm not being cryptic, I'm not hiding anything at all. But I want my first real demonstration of principal to be backed by fact/results. Not by speculation or theory. That may sound lame, but I have years in this project, so I take pride in it!
I will give you all that I know or have learned, but the discovery part will be in my second lecture. To me, when writing something as long as the first explanation, it's a lecture......... but I fealt it was important, so I did only what I thought best to do. So thank you for tolerating it, to whomever reads it in it's entirety.
@LeeQuoteOkay, here goes:
I went to a small(75 yd X 75 yd) urban park on a hill surrounded by houses in S.F. and then uncoiled 200' of enamel magnet wire onto well-watered, grassy ground that was soaked in spots. Got nothing on my digital Radio Shack
VOM, as I expected(AC, that is). This was practice to see how much effort would be required to achieve test results.
This is an aerial, not a ground rod, do not let it touch the grassy knoll but, do try adding water and note the results. The best way to learn is from experience. So my only advice is to try everything at least once!
If you listen to science, it will tell you that 50v are available per every meter or 3' give or take. I have not seen this kind of voltage until I reach altitudes of 100' or more. I don't know how many meters since I'm terrible with math. And I'm not looking it up, I will only tell you the truth! But play around with trees in your experiment, then note the results. But always go higher as long as you can do so safely. And also go deeper into the ground. You need to reach this energy as close to it's source as possible.
t3t4
@jeanna,
If you believe anything from my lecture at all, then, get your foil off the side of the wall since it's conductive, and place it on the peak of the roof. We must reach upwards, not sideways. But you have proven there is potential energy all over the place. So how do we harness it properly?
I'll get into that later along with theory, but until then...... Reach for the sky and drive your ground rods as deep as you can get them. On the peak of your roof you should be getting 7 - 12 Vac with a 12" square sheet of aluminum foil. At least that's what I receive, and then some depending upon position. But only ever go as high as you feel comfortable. I have a fear of heights, but I'll talk more about that in my next lecture. In the mean time, don't put yourself at risk. It's just a damn experiment, so play at your leisure. The point is to have fun and maybe learn something new. It's all old if you ask me, but always fun to re-discover.....
t3t4
OK later.
The peak of my roof is 3 or 4 feet higher that the side wall of the house. And that makes it 10' off the ground. But, it will be horizontal. The military planes will love this. Ha!
The voltage has not budged, so I will probably get the ladder, which I need to do anyway.
btw 100' is about 35 meters. A meter is a large yard but call it a yard and you will never be too far off.
jeanna
t3t4 said:
Quote
@Lee
This is an aerial, not a ground rod, do not let it touch the grassy knoll but, do try adding water and note the results.
I'll take your advice. My next test will be off the ground wherever possible---although dry pine needles and artificial bark mulch might be okay. Wood is cellulose and a fairly good insulator
if it's
dry.
Quote
If you listen to science, it will tell you that 50v are available per every meter or 3' give or take. I have not seen this kind of voltage until I reach altitudes of 100' or more.
Okay. I remember that. But since I'll be working on the side of a hill, I have no experience whether or not the hill's height or the proximity of the ground under me takes more precedence.
Also, I take a meter to be 3.3 feet as a rule of thumb.
--Lee
Quote from: the_big_m_in_ok on August 25, 2009, 06:57:47 PM
t3t4 said:I'll take your advice. My next test will be off the ground wherever possible---although dry pine needles and artificial bark mulch might be okay. Wood is cellulose and a fairly good insulator if it's dry.
Okay. I remember that. But since I'll be working on the side of a hill, I have no experience whether or not the hill's height or the proximity of the ground under me takes more precedence.
Also, I take a meter to be 3.3 feet as a rule of thumb.
--Lee
Being on the top of a hill and sticking your antenna 10' into the air is similar to being in the valley and sticking your antenna 10' into the air.
It's about the distance above the ground you're standing on, not the elevation above sea level. There may be more radio waves on top of a hill compared to the valley but I'm not sure. I never tested it.
The minimum height is over 10' off of the ground to get serious voltage.
The wire (antenna) cannot touch anything. Use insulators when attaching it to trees, fences, buildings, etc.
DonL
I slapped this antenna together last night to test the difference between a bare sheet of aluminum vs a sheet of aluminum with plexiglass covering it.
I inadvertantly created a capacitor by having the aluminum sheets insulated and so close to eachother. This proved to be real interesting. I didn't need a ground connection. One plate produced positive voltage and the other produced negative voltage. Once I realized I had a capacitor as an antenna, I tried to connect from one plate to one side of a mylar 4.7uF capacitor and from the other side of the capacitor to a ground rod to capture voltage. I had to use 1 sheet of aluminum at a time when using the ground rod. I could use both sheets (1 positive and 1 negative) connected to the same capacitor, at the same time and no ground rod.
DonL
@DonL
That's excellent! You just gave me a new idea to test, but the capacitor I have already tried with nothing beneficial to report as result. Yeah it works, but at least for me didn't seem to do good or bad, but rather it fed me the same basic results instead.
I have a picture package together that I'm currently uploading to 3 different sites. I finally got it done today, but man do I suck at photoshop. This took way longer then I thought it would. But it will show how simple this device can be using what we already have. And also it will show the leaking faucet I described in an earlier post. It only takes a little to get a whole lot more. Anyway, the packet is about 56 MB worth, so when it's done uploading, I will reply again with more information along with the download links.
t3t4
t3t4
Forgive me if you know this already. I use photoshop all the time especially to lower the size of the pics.
After you get what you want go to Image> resize then resize it to 72 pix/inch (our screens) and make the total 4 or 5 inches max. Also check the box to constrain proportions.
Then when you like what you see, go to file> save for web and make a gif out of it. This 2 part procedure usually removes about 2MB from each pic.
For what it is worth.
BTW
Thanks to DonL I just realized my mistake. Thanks DonL
I taped the alu foil covered tupperware lid to the house. I should have only had the alu foil on the outside side.
(I live in a metal house, which of course, is grounded.)
I will fix that in the morning.
jeanna
Okay, here is my crude experiment. This is not how I did it first, but this is how I achieved my worst results. I was going to do this a little different, but I thought it best to show how you can totally screw up and still succeed. So, the picture packet below is my worst case scenario.
http://rapidshare.com/files/271575450/Aerial_test_1.zip.html (http://rapidshare.com/files/271575450/Aerial_test_1.zip.html)
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=KNX6R0UZ (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=KNX6R0UZ)
http://www.filesend.net/download.php?
f=a2711a1068f9bcff866bacf15be04d2f (http://www.filesend.net/download.php?%3Cbr%20/%3Ef=a2711a1068f9bcff866bacf15be04d2f)
It get's better from here, but I decided to take this one step at a time for those that care to follow along. I'll keep stepping it up with each post, but the pics and the set up take quite a bit of time, so be patient. I'll try to do this in 3 or 4 phases, starting with the worst which you can see above. But the tear down and rebuild takes time, but it's extremely beneficial for the sake of ruling out a glitch or freak of nature. If I can repeat my results 3 times minimum, then I know it's not a fluke. So the tear down and the set up is a pain, but also a needed thing if you ask me.
Besides, I have a camping trip planned for the middle of October, and I want to light the camp ground from my system. So, practice makes perfect, I guess.
Anyway, I hope you like the pics. If you have any questions, you know where to ask them.
Thanks,
t3t4
Sorry, but I forgot to mention that my aerial is 16 feet from ground in the pic's and the meter reading from my circuit was after "one" hour.
t3t4
@ dllabarre
Wow. This is very interesting. I have made a drawing to see if I understand what you are doing. Is this correct? How much voltage do you get?
I too would like to see some data. But no Xee2, that's not what he's doing. Although, you made a very nice diagram. Good gob!
t3t4
t3t4
Some of us who have crappy, outdated, useless computers (well, not too useless) would appreciate it if you could do as Jeanna said about re-sizing the pics and then PLEASE post them to this forum instead of supplying links. I cannot always get to those links. Could you do that for us?
Perhaps what you might want to do is go ahead and leave your "blooper photos" at the links and then post the "working photos" here? I am not really interested in the bloopers all that much...sorry. I would much rather see what actually works. Others, though, might very well be interested in them. I just don't have time for too much side-tracking. ;D Please consider??? Thanks
t3t4
As an example: I tried to download the first file. At Rapidshare it said "You are not a Premium User and will have to wait. Please note that only Premium Users will get full download speed." I don't have the $16.99 for 90 days of Rapid share Premium. So I waited. And waited. Then when it was finally time to download...it says it will take 5 hours and 42 minutes. Well, my computer would have been booted long before that. I cannot get those files. I do not have a fancy new computer. I and 'puter are old. Please post what you will, here at the forum... for us old ladies.
Thank you.
Sorry about that, I wasn't at all thinking about those who still use dial up. It would be an almost impossible download at those connection speeds. I don't have a premium RS account either, I only use them because most others use them as well. If you have a preferred hosting site, just let me know and I'll upload the packet there also.
I had a long day yesterday, so I didn't bother resizing the pics to post. I was going to do that, but had already stared at my computer screen for way too long. Can someone tell me, does this site respond well to HTML in posts? I'm new to posting here, so I have to learn.
Thanks,
t3t4
Quote from: t3t4 on August 26, 2009, 02:35:46 PM
... so I didn't bother resizing the pics to post. ...
How about resizing 3 or 4 pics of the current set up and see how it goes?
QuoteCan someone tell me, does this site respond well to HTML in posts? I'm new to posting here, so I have to learn.
If you mean in the reply box...
The reply box is php. You cannot even add an underline.
But you can change the predesigned color highlight to yellow by typing that in to replace the red, so I believe your leeway is very limited.
But if you were not so new, you would probably understand the reason for that.
For now, to help with your eyes... on the left edge is a choice to make for the "theme selector"
The pretty hot red and orange will pale to light blue and white. It might be easier on the eyes.
And finally, you are aware that you should be using firefox aren't you?
jeanna
@ jeanna
Quote from: jeanna on August 26, 2009, 03:06:57 PM
The pretty hot red and orange will pale to light blue and white. It might be easier on the eyes.
This must only work in Firefox. I have tried to change it in IE and it won't change. If anyone knows how please help. I do not like that orange and red.
Quote from: xee2 on August 26, 2009, 02:22:37 AM
@ dllabarre
Wow. This is very interesting. I have made a drawing to see if I understand what you are doing. Is this correct? How much voltage do you get?
I was comparing one sheet of aluminum covered with plexiglass to another sheet of aluminum NOT covered with plexiglass. The aluminum sheets were 6"x24". Both sheets of aluminum were attached to the same piece of particle board 20"x32"x3/8" as you can see in the picture. Only one sheet of aluminum had plexiglass on it. Then I ran the 2 wires (1 from each sheet) down to the bottom of the pole to play with.
Today I replaced the aluminum sheets with aluminum foil cut into the same 6"x24" pieces with one covered with the same plexiglass I used before and the other with nothing covering it.
The mV's with the aluminum foil today were very low compared to what I got from the aluminum sheets yesterday.
Aluminum sheets 200-400mV.
Aluminum foil 20-34mV.
Everything else being equal.
DonL
Actually the plexiglas was as thin as the aluminum sheets.
Not thick like in the above pictures.
Sorry, I'm not getting notified of every post, so I have missed a few replies. I'm new here so still learning, bare with me please.
@protonmom,QuotePerhaps what you might want to do is go ahead and leave your "blooper photos" at the links and then post the "working photos" here? I am not really interested in the bloopers all that much...sorry. I would much rather see what actually works. Others, though, might very well be interested in them. I just don't have time for too much side-tracking. ;D Please consider??? Thanks
I'm afraid your missing the point. This system works even when it's a so-called blooper! The simple reason I'm trying to show and tell in phases, is because some may want to follow along and the more that actually do this experiment, the more we all can learn. I'm only one man, I can't think of everything. But you are many, you may think of something I didn't whereby obtaining better results. I feel I have already peaked, which I will show, but be patient please, this is not a race, it's science.
I too am re-running my old experiments, that's where the pic's come from, but I'm doing it mostly so you guys can think of something that I did not. It's me helping you helping me, that sort of a thing. To just watch the end of the movie means nothing if you don't understand the story.
@jeanna,QuoteHow about resizing 3 or 4 pics of the current set up and see how it goes?
I'll try that later tonight, thanks.
QuoteIf you mean in the reply box...
The reply box is php. You cannot even add an underline.
But you can change the predesigned color
highlight to yellow by typing that in to replace the red, so I believe your leeway is very limited.
But if you were not so new, you would probably understand the reason for that.
Sorry, I'll learn all of this sooner or later. In the meantime, thanks for tolerating my mistakes. The best part about screwing up is, if done correctly, the whole world gets to see the mistake....LOL
Quoteyou are aware that you should be using firefox aren't you?
Been using FF for longer then I can remember.
But thanks for the tips in using photoshop and this site.
t3t4
@ dllabarre
Thanks for correcting the diagram.
I could not understand how the diagram I make could work. But, in your diagram I think maybe the Plexiglass is acting as an insulator and preventing ions from going into the air from one aluminium plate. While on the other aluminium plate the ions are not prevented from going into the air. I would suspect that Plexiglass between the plates and the particle board might help a little.
t3t4
Don't get me wrong. I know there are SOME people who would like to see those bloopers and that is fine. But for ME...and I speak ONLY for ME.....I really need to see the working product. Surely you must have a couple of photos of the real deal by now, sized and ready to upload. If you are online right now....it only takes a reply and an attachment to show us the photos....jpegs....gifs.
I am sorry that I cannot get to those links you offered. That is the only reason I asked that you please post the pics here on the forum. I cannot be the only one in the crowd who has dial up or who cannot see the link pics.
But if that is not something you are prepared to do, then so be it. I guess it is Back to NS EB for me then.
Quote from: xee2 on August 26, 2009, 03:31:04 PM
@ jeanna
This must only work in Firefox. I have tried to change it in IE and it won't change. If anyone knows how please help. I do not like that orange and red.
Yeh... I figured it out. You need to click on the sample to get it to work.
@ dllabarre,Nice diagram, but the pic's of your set up along with explanation is what gave me an idea. For years now I have been trying to figure out how Tesla could have created a vibrating/resonant power supply that actually has enough power to run a car, without touching ground! After-all, it's not like you can simply drag a ball and chain behind you when you drive, right? So if you pull the energy from the air, how do you send it to ground without actually touching ground, all the while being mobile? It could be done exactly the way you show in your pic's, if tuned. One plate can be positive and the other negative. I just never thought about that way before, so thank you!
@ protonmom,QuoteI guess it is Back to NS EB for me then.
I am sorry you do not have the patience for science. But do please continue to read at your leisure. The pic's I have already provided (via download) are of a
working system or product! But I apologize that I have yet to provide these pictures in accordance with everyone's preference. But no, I do not have pics of where I ended! I believe I think logically, but I do not always "do" logically. I'm not a secretary, so I don't keep records laying around. All of this is just an experiment and is something I do for leisure, to relax and have fun with, "not" to document every little thing.
I'm sorry, but I'm just not made that way. I hope you understand. Give me some time please,,,,, I'll get some pic's up someway, somehow.
t3t4
t3t4,
I am glad to have helped.
Please understand something.
We are all different and we all have wonderful ideas and many many things we want to try.
But they differ from each other.
So, you might find that even though you believe that your direction is the most sensible and truly the only obvious direction to take, others only want to look and watch.
Since they are full of their ideas, they do not have any more extra time to look at and read other people's ideas than you do.
It will probably help you get your ideas across faster and better if you make it really easy. And, that might make it more difficult for you.
On the other hand, I have found that when I was forced to explain myself again just to get any response, I found that the process helped me a lot. So, even though it is more work, it may in the end benefit you as well. (it may not, of course.)
Most of us are here for scientific reasons.
Anyone who has read both earth battery threads AND the joule thief thread in their entirety is a very sincere researcher (or completely crazy ;D )
Protonmom did not even notify us of her presence here until after she had read both earth battery threads entirely and I think twice at that time. Not only that, she had already made a Stubblefield generator. I am very impressed with this approach and I suggest you might acknowledge the effort. But, that is up to you.
I will soon go to those sites you linked to see if I can view them or if I must download them. I prefer viewing them. Photobucket is where stprue used to post very large pics.
thank you,
jeanna
@ protonmom
Just to give you something until t3t4 posts his reduced pictures, here is his photo of the basic circuit. He has already posted a diagram for this circuit.
@ jeanna,
QuoteWe are all different and we all have wonderful ideas and many many things we want to try.
But they differ from each other.
Yes, that is exactly why I am here!
QuoteSo, you might find that even though you believe that your direction is the most sensible and truly the only obvious direction to take, others only want to look and watch.
Since they are full of their ideas, they do not have any more extra time to look at and read other people's ideas than you do.
I do understand and I do my best to simply stick to the point.
QuoteIt will probably help you get your ideas across faster and better if you make it really easy. And, that might make it more difficult for you.
I honestly don't know how to make this any more simplistic! Place a wire in the sky, use the circuit I posted, then stick a rod in the ground. That's all there is, really.
QuoteOn the other hand, I have found that when I was forced to explain myself again just to get any response, I found that the process helped me a lot. So, even though it is more work, it may in the end benefit you as well. (it may not, of course.)
The benefit of us all is exactly why I'm doing this in phases. I do honestly apologize if most do not believe this fact. But what is the point of sitting in a class room if your not allowed to ask a question, let alone offer an opinion in hopes of a reply?
QuoteProtonmom did not even notify us of her presence here until after she had read both earth battery threads entirely and I think twice at that time. Not only that, she had already made a Stubblefield generator. I am very impressed with this approach and I suggest you might acknowledge the effort. But, that is up to you.
I hope I have not been taken the wrong way. As far as I am aware, I have not disrespected anyone, all I have done is explain my theory and show some results which support my theory. If I am mistaken, then do please correct me. If this is not the place for experimental discussion, then do please tell me where to go. And yes I do mean that literally! Like you and most others I'm sure, I do not want to waste time on those who will not listen let alone participate.
So for those that have actually tried the experiment, I do commend you for your efforts! But I hope all can understand, I need help too. I have peaked and I will show this along with how I did it. But I desperately need new ideas in the process. Again, if this is not the place for such things, then do please tell me where to go.
Maybe it's the age old story, men are from mars and women from venous, or something like that. But unlike most, I at least will listen, which doesn't mean I will do, but only means I will hear you. Unless you tell me, I'll never know. So again I thank you. I'll do my best to appease all parties.
So here are some pic's that hopefully will show up in this post. I don't know, it's only a test and not even half of the total package.
But here we go. I hope it looks Okay, but I think I can go bigger. I'll learn, just give me time.
Thanks,
t3t4
t3t4,
Those pics and annotations are perfect.
I am getting 2.1v in the total of the 2 batteries.
I see the difference is in both the depth and height, but I find it interesting and disappointing that you are getting only 1 more v than I am.
Are you storing this in a big or little battery?
I am using a 2, AAA battery holder.
thank you,
jeanna
@ jeanna, QuoteI see the difference is in both the depth and height, but I find it interesting and disappointing that you are getting only 1 more v than I am.
Are you storing this in a big or little battery?
Thanks jeanna, for the understanding. Yes, as I have been saying form the beginning, go deeper and higher. We (in my opinion) need to reach this energy as close to it's source as possible. But my pic's only show storage in the caps, not a battery. All that's coming up. But I can say right now, what you see in the pics are my worst results. But I wonder if this stone building I live in has any affect.... I have been able to do this in other locations, but all of this will take time to show. Please bare with me.
I'd just like to know if others can duplicate it. This will test, show and prove the same basic results are obtainable regardless of location. And like DonL, may just give me a new idea in the process if people show and tell.
Thank you,
t3t4
@ t3t4:
Good job on the pictures.
I have a few questions for you. Are you getting any power out of this arrangement? My set-up here typically (although it does fluctuate) puts out about 2 vdc at 20 mA's or so. I don't know if you have read of my work and experiments with supercaps but, you may want to try using some of them. Also, I can hook up my modified Fuji to my electrodes and get about 400 volts dc out. You probably have enough to run one of thiese as well.
Somewhere, way back in the early days of our research here, someone suggested using a helium balloon with light guage mag wire tied to it to get it up to about 200 feet to get some real juice. Now, this sounds pretty simple and is a good idea unless there is much wind, or a thunder storm.
I would like to try this in combination with my electrodes to see if I can put them in series to my 650 F supercap. This would be a very good base increase for me.
I appreciate your work and your efforts here. The photos are a big help as I guess a lot of us are visual and, even though someone can explain somethnig ot me like 10 times...I see a photo and say..."so that is what he means."
I will try this as soon as I can.
Bill
Can I ask each of you to respond to these questions regarding the type of wire you are using for your aerial?
It will help us all reproduce your results.
Type of wire - stranded, solid, coax, other:
Size of wire in AWG:
Length of wire - feet or meters:
Height of wire at highest point - feet or meters:
Thank you,
DonL
Quote from: dllabarre on August 26, 2009, 10:46:27 PM
Can I ask each of you to respond to these questions regarding the type of wire you are using for your aerial?
It will help us all reproduce your results.
Type of wire - stranded, solid, coax, other:
Size of wire in AWG:
Length of wire - feet or meters:
Height of wire at highest point - feet or meters:
Thank you,
DonL
Type of wire - stranded, solid, coax, other: Aluminum Plates
Size of wire in AWG: each of 2 plates is 6" x 24"
Length of wire - feet or meters: Not applicable
Height of wire at highest point - feet or meters: Bottom of plates are 11' above ground
DonL
Quote from: dllabarre on August 26, 2009, 10:46:27 PM
Can I ask each of you to respond to these questions regarding the type of wire you are using for your aerial?
It will help us all reproduce your results.
Type of wire - stranded, solid, coax, other:
Size of wire in AWG:
Length of wire - feet or meters:
Height of wire at highest point - feet or meters:
Thank you,
DonL
I'm starting to look at coax cable now along with aluminum plates.
Type of wire - stranded, solid, coax, other: coax
Size of wire in AWG: TV cable type
Length of wire - feet or meters: 50'
Height of wire at highest point - feet or meters: 11'
DonL
@ Pirate88197,
Thanks for reading, no I have not followed all of your posts, but I have seen all of your videos. Nice work by the way and nice to hear from you.
This is all Tesla with a bit of Moray mixed in, so do please take it for what it's worth. Most of this is just my opinion as far as theory is concerned. But even a bad experiment leads to positive and to usable results. I will post everything, but since I have to re-perform the experiments, it will take time. Please bare with me. I believe this is a good thing! Others may differ in opinion, but if I can do it once, then I should be able to do it twice, correct?
QuoteAre you getting any power out of this arrangement? My set-up here typically (although it does fluctuate) puts out about 2 vdc at 20 mA's or so.
Yes, I get enough to charge batteries with this circuit, but if you take what I have learned in combination with what you already know, then you should have a kick a$$ system on your hands. That is why I began to post in this thread. My system works stand alone, and so does yours! So what happens if you combine the two? It should be compounded interest.......correct? But somebody needs to try it. I'm not properly equipped, (no pun intended) but you guys are.
So what happens if you combine an earth battery along with a radiant energy receiver? I don't know! I'm hoping you guys can answer this for me and gain some interesting results in return.
QuoteAlso, I can hook up my modified Fuji to my electrodes and get about 400 volts dc out. You probably have enough to run one of thiese as well.
I can't receive anywhere near 400 VDC, but I think I could power one of the Fuji circuits... Just a guess though! I have yet to try it, so that's all I can say. I am re-running all my basic experiments in hopes that someone will find something I missed, all the while learning this site and posting proof as best I can. Thanks to all that bare with me in the process!
QuoteSomewhere, way back in the early days of our research
here, someone suggested using a helium balloon with light guage mag wire tied to it to get it up to about 200 feet to get some real juice. Now, this sounds pretty simple and is a good idea unless there is much wind, or a thunder storm.
Thunderstorms are good! Not for the sake of attracting lightning, but for the sake of results. This devise seems to repel lightning! I don't exactly know why, but you can rest assured that I have a theory. Metal rod or wire high in the sky never get's hit by an electrical strike while tied to this circuit, why is that? All this to come later, but for now, always go as high as possible, and also as deep into the ground as possible.
But do please feed your ideas in the process, humor yourself as well as others. I assure you, I will not be the one to criticize! But I am the one asking for thoughts......
QuoteI would like to try this in combination with my electrodes to see if I can put them in series to my 650 F supercap. This would be a very good base increase for me.
Yes, "A" men! This is exactly what I am hopeful that people will do. But on their own terms.
QuoteI appreciate your work and your efforts here. The photos are a big help as I guess a lot of us are visual and, even though someone can explain somethnig ot me like 10 times...I see a photo and say..."so that is what he means."
You along with the rest are quite welcome. But I hope all can understand that I'm new here. So I just need a little time to figure it all out. But I will have many more pic's to post coming soon.
All I ask is this: if you have an idea, do please throw it at me. Your thoughts cause me to think, and hopefully vise versa.
So thanks again to all.
t3t4
@DonL,
In the pic's I provided, I am using 14 awg via a very old extension cord of 100' (or 100 feet). Sorry, but some live in other places, so if they want to do the math, then so be it. I flat out suck in math, so bare with me, please.... So without getting into greater discussion, I'll let it rest here.....
QuoteI'm starting to look at coax cable
now along with aluminum plates.
I have used this as well, but it actually does a good job. If you are speaking of cable television coax cable. Just remember, if you wrap it in a coil, then all will say it's pure induction, for those that understand. Even though that's exactly what I did in some tests, all will either say it's cool or it's a fluke by pure induction! Do please keep in mind that I have years in this, not days!
What none realize yet, is the fact that we need induction to make this system work. That is not to say we steal from the grid or from the AM/FM radio band waves, but only to say we need to draw in these electron in either case.
So play! have fun in the process and report all findings. That's all....... But try everything at least once, but twice to make sure it wasn't a fluke the first time around!
t3t4
Quote from: t3t4 on August 27, 2009, 03:56:06 AM
@DonL,
In the pic's I provided, I am using 14 awg via a very old extension cord of 100' (or 100 feet).
t3t4
We need to remember to be very detailed with our descriptions of our systems.
Just to clarify. You are using an old extension cord. Most extension cards in America are made up of 3 wires. A Load, Common and Ground. Is this what you're using? Which of the 3 wires are you using? What are you doing with the other 2 wires?
Thank you,
DonL
QuoteMetal rod or wire high in the sky never get's hit by an electrical strike while tied to this circuit, why is that?
Possibly the circuit is draining the negative charge that builds up on the metal. If there is an earth ground in the circuit that helps drain the negative charge also. A direct or close proximity hit would still take it out. Pvc coated wire doesn't build up a negative charge like bare wire.
Florida is number 2 in the world for lightning strikes next to Africa. I have a 32 foot galvanized mast for my weather station out in my pasture. It has 4 guy wires and each has its own ground rod as well as the mast itself. Its been up for about 5 years without a hit.
Xee2
Thank you for the pic upload. I very much appreciate it!
Doni
Thank you for your idea!! It made me think of another idea which I decided to add to yours. It was a jolting experience to say the least! ;D But now I will go back out and this time wear some rubber boots and rubber gloves and try again! You have a good mind for putting things together. Glad you are here.
Quote from: protonmom on August 27, 2009, 10:41:48 AM
Xee2
Thank you for the pic upload. I very much appreciate it!
Doni
Thank you for your idea!! It made me think of another idea which I decided to add to yours. It was a jolting experience to say the least! ;D But now I will go back out and this time wear some rubber boots and rubber gloves and try again! You have a good mind for putting things together. Glad you are here.
What is your idea?
DonL
@ DonL
QuoteWe need to remember to be very detailed with our descriptions of our systems.
Yeah, sorry about that. I did mention before that the aerial in the pic's was 16' from ground, those who download the packet can clearly see the two conductor extension cord/areial.
Specs:Aerial = 100' two conductor 14 awg extension cord.
Aerial height = 16' from ground.
approximately 60' of the cord is tied to rain gutters, the rest leads to my work bench.
Ground rod = 4' long mild steel bar pounded 4' into ground.
Ground wire = 50' extension cord leading from ground to work bench.
Charge circuit = two 100uf capacitors and two common diodes.
And I think that's it for this experiment, if you see something in the pic's I forgot to mention, please point it out.
Thanks,
t3t4
Quote from: t3t4 on August 27, 2009, 12:38:16 PM
@ DonL
Aerial = 100' two conductor 14 awg extension cord.
Thanks,
t3t4
are you using both conductors in your aerial?
If so, how are the 2 connected at each end of the wire?
Another words: are the 2 at the top of the aeriel connected together or left separate?
Are the 2 at the lower end connected together before being connected to your circuit or left separate. If separate, which one are you using and what are you doing with the other connector?
All this is important in order to replicate your system.
Someone may have read your post and think you're using 1 solid wire as an aeriel. By using a 2 conductor wire you may be "accidentially" changing your circuit for the better or worse.
Sorry to be so "picky" but this is science. ;)
DonL
QuoteWhat none realize yet, is the fact that we need induction to make this system work.
I do and I have been working to use it.
And, I agree most people even many trained ones miss this.
The natural world presents us with an alternation of E and M and we are wise to use it which to me means get out the inductors.
This is the reason I have been spending time taking Prof Lewin's 8.02 physics class. wow!
DonL
I am glad you asked about the wire. I did assume a single strand of wire. I suspect Lee did too since he went right out with a single strand.
Thanks.
In fact, although there is little inductance, I used what remained of a spool of 22awg single strand wire and played out what I needed to get to the ground and the rest is still wound.
thank you,
jeanna
I've been working on using inductors for months with this setup.
This will need a lot more control and switching but here is where I'm going now:
DonL
I like that DonL!!
What if you put the inductors in series.
One inductor per plate each one going to a cap as t3t4 has described?
I noticed with my secondary from joule thief that with those parallel secondary lines (which are essentially the same as 2 wires from an earth battery or probably an "air" battery)
that putting an inductor in series with the load made more available to the load.
My scope batteries are recharging again, so I need to wait to check some of these ideas.
here is a pic. just look at the upper right hand stuff. the secondary S1 which is the upper one is the simplest one. It got a boost from a bigger inductor. It still has power to spare.
I think this is what we can do with the EER and air/radiant collectors because what they are presenting us is pulsed dc in all cases.
jeanna
@ dllabarre
Quote from: dllabarre on August 27, 2009, 03:27:29 PM
I've been working on using inductors for months with this setup.
This will need a lot more control and switching but here is where I'm going now:
DonL
Your design is much like a loop antenna. In a loop antenna the gain is higher if the wires between the inductor and capacitor are far apart. I suspect you have them close together. You may want to try separating them and see if you get any improvement.
Remember, as far as I can tell, these 2 plates together act as a capacitor. If i touch the 2 wires coming down together (1 wire from each plate) it shorts out the 2 plates like it would short out a capacitor.
The 2 plates are ~3 inches from each other.
I need to do more experimenting.
DonL
@ dllabarre
Quote from: dllabarre on August 27, 2009, 04:15:38 PM
Remember, as far as I can tell, these 2 plates together act as a capacitor. If i touch the 2 wires coming down together (1 wire from each plate) it shorts out the 2 plates like it would short out a capacitor.
The 2 plates are ~3 inches from each other.
I need to do more experimenting.
DonL
The gain of a loop antenna is increased as area of loop increases. Something like this would increase area of your loop.
Quote from: xee2 on August 27, 2009, 04:53:04 PM
@ dllabarre
The gain of a loop antenna is increased as area of loop increases. Something like this would increase area of your loop.
I should be able to test this easily enough.
DonL
@ DonL,Quoteare you using both conductors in your aerial? If so, how are the 2 connected at each end of the wire?
Yes, via a 14 awg jumper wire at the female end of the cord. Then connected to the input of the circuit via radioshack jumper leads. Although, one or two wire in my experiment made no difference in charge rate. It was actually much better until I place the aerial in a "V" configuration. But I wanted to show worst case results and I have never tried a "V" shaped aerial before, so I figured it was about time I did.
Most will probably find that a straight line works best, although, you might want to try everything regardless. You may get better results using a bizarre shape that I never thought of, so try everything.
Thanks,
t3t4
Quote from: dllabarre on August 27, 2009, 03:27:29 PM
I've been working on using inductors for months with this setup.
This will need a lot more control and switching but here is where I'm going now:
DonL
@DonL
Wow. That's about as simple as it gets.
But, the experimenter side of me asks these questions:
1) Do the plates need to be the same material? Is there any advantage to using different materials?
2) Is
very high voltage developed on the plates? Is plate area a factor?
3) No ground is required? Would using a ground improve the system?
4) Would using
very lengthy wire aerials be of benefit?
--Lee
Quote from: the_big_m_in_ok on August 27, 2009, 05:48:36 PM
@DonL
Wow. That's about as simple as it gets.
But, the experimenter side of me asks these questions:
--Lee
The picture is an idea. That's all.
Tesla's patent calls for an aluminum plate high up in the air.
I started with 2 aluminum plates that are exactly the same size in all demensions and put them on a pole 11' (feet) in the air.
I'm only getting 300-400mV at 11' in the air.
You're welcome to try "any and all" combinations that you can think of and we'll keep posting and comparing notes here in the forum.
DonL
dllabarre said:
Quote
I started with 2 aluminum plates that are exactly the same size in all demensions and put them on a pole 11' (feet) in the air.
I'm only getting 300-400mV at 11' in the air.
Is that AC? 300-400 mV is pretty good for a relatively small setup.
Is that without any single, diode 1/2 wave rectifier or 4 full wave diodes to DC?
--Lee
Quote from: the_big_m_in_ok on August 27, 2009, 10:49:14 PM
dllabarre said:Is that AC? 300-400 mV is pretty good for a relatively small setup.
Is that without any single, diode 1/2 wave rectifier or 4 full wave diodes to DC?
--Lee
It's DC.
Just a 4.7uF mylar capacitor.
No diodes.
DonL
Quote from: xee2 on August 27, 2009, 04:53:04 PM
@ dllabarre
The gain of a loop antenna is increased as area of loop increases. Something like this would increase area of your loop.
Upon further testing (stimulated by xee2) it appears that 90% of my potential is coming from the wires going from the plates down the pole.
My next test will be to spread the wires as xee2 suggested and measure the potential
with and
without the aluminum plates connected.
DonL
@ DonLQuote
Upon further testing (stimulated by xee2) it appears that 90% of my potential is coming from the wires going from the plates down the pole.
Yep, it's pure induction, for some reason plates don't make very good inductors, but wire does.
Thanks for the update.
t3t4
@ dllabarre & t3t4
The plates do not make good inductors, but they do make a capacitor. I suspect that the capacitor is needed in order to make a current loop. A loop antenna works better with the capacitor.
Also, if the power source is magnetic then the magnetic field probably runs north - south. In that case the loop should work better if it is in the east - west direction (perpendicular to magnetic field).
Quote from: t3t4 on August 28, 2009, 03:09:36 AM
@ DonL
Yep, it's pure induction, for some reason plates don't make very good inductors, but wire does.
Thanks for the update.
t3t4
Would building or laying a copper wire/rod/pipe grid across a roof help in generating more power? It would have considerable area covering the whole roof.
--Lee
@ Xee2
Yeah, that's something I forgot to mention in the spec section of my first experiment. My "V" shaped aerial due to it's shape was pointing at 3 different directions. West, east and south east.
Although I thought the same thing once, that going against the grain (east/west) would be better, I have later found nothing beneficial to speak of by doing so. But give it a try in both directions and note your results. Yeah, I'm one to speak, I don't write anything down myself........ But my next experiment will show the capacitor in the sky effect. This weekend I'll get to that.
@ --Lee
You and Xee2 gave me a very interesting idea. This is something I have never tried, let alone ever thought about. But let me start at the beginning. I too think surface area is important, but have not been able to prove it. I have gone as far as lining the peak of a 100 (?) foot long roof top with stainless steel tin foil. The foil was 12" wide. I was sure this increase in surface are would net me much greater voltage. I was WRONG! But it did server to provide an amusing situation when the wind kicked up!!
But going on the same theory of surface area, what if we built a grid style aerial as Lee suggests? We could obtain surface area without using much space at all. But I can tell you from my experiment, the grid will have to be constructed in such a way as to allow or to force an electron to move in only one direction. I'll explain:
If you swipe a magnet across a wire, you induce an electron flow or a momentary charge. But this energy will not stay in the wire, it want's to move. It's the weaker of all potentials being drawn to the strongest. This wire will have an electron flow on both ends, but with nowhere to go, it simply fly's off when it reaches the end. The electron was not trapped, nor utilized by the wire itself, so the energy is gone. But what if direction of flow doesn't matter? We can force an electron to go anywhere we want by simply changing the potential of the conductor at one point or another.
I do not want to get to far ahead of myself here, this has already worked better then I could have hoped. Your ideas have definitely given me things to think about.
So this would be the basic construction. Make a grid out of whatever, but copper pipe will work very well I think. You should have two layers so as to make a sandwich. The tricky part is, no pipe can physically touch the other, so use PVC or nylon based stand off's. PVC would be ideal since you could gain a little static surface charge as well. This will essentially be like two plates in a sandwich form, but made as a grid using copper pipe. The way you tie it all together "electrically" is by using capacitors.
So picture it like this, a pipe, then a cap, then a pipe, then another cap all tied in series, but formed to create a grid. I don't know if two grids would be best, but that's what I'm thinking anyway. Point is, now your telling the electron exactly where to go without forcing it to do so. It will want to go to the caps, your just giving it conduit. But you will still need a load to pull the energy from this aerial.
Anyway, this is the basic idea I received from the rest of you so far. Thank you very much!
t3t4
@ t3t4
I would think that when working with the vertical voltage gradient above the ground, that a certain height will only give a certain voltage. Thus increasing area will not increase voltage. BUT, I also think that increasing area should increase the current. Thus more area will not charge capacitors to a higher voltage, but should reach that voltage quicker.
The loop antenna design works off the changing magnetic field rather than the voltage gradient. It is like a wire next to a moving magnet.
So I think there are two ways of getting energy. One uses the electric field and one uses the magnetic field.
But, I have not built anything. So these are just wild speculations.
Quote from: the_big_m_in_ok on August 28, 2009, 09:47:38 AM
Would building or laying a copper wire/rod/pipe grid across a roof help in generating more power? It would have considerable area covering the whole roof.
--Lee
Hi Lee,
I think that is one of the reasons for the loop arrangement.
The area within the wire is one major part of the volts produced when a mag field goes through it. You get many sq ft of area inside a closed loop of many turns.
W Lewin (sorry) says to help picture this, imagine sticking a loop of wire into soap and the spiral surface that runs between all the loops is the total area. This is why more turns gives you more volts, because more turns increases the area of the surface that the mag field goes through.
I once saw an article which I cannot find today which describes making many loops out of one telephone wire by connecting the wires by color so they connect in a spiral inside the cable.
Does this sound easier? It sounds like less space or less obvious to me.
jeanna
QuoteSo I think there are two ways of getting energy. One uses the electric field and one uses the magnetic field.
But, I have not built anything. So these are just wild speculations.
Well current always puts out a magnetic field in a wire. The two cant be separated. Using a magnetic field to produce current takes you back to the electric field. Thats why you can magnetize metal with dc current.
Im wondering if anyone has tried to magnetize a nail with an earth battery. Im going to have to try that out.
@ Xee2,
QuoteI would think that when working with the vertical voltage gradient above the ground, that a certain height will only give a certain voltage.
That is exactly true! But I didn't know then what I know now, so I had to learn the hard way. Voltage in this case is all in relation to altitude.
QuoteSo I think there are two ways of getting energy. One uses the electric field and one uses the magnetic field.
A-men, your dead on!
QuoteBut, I have not built anything. So these are just wild speculations.
Well, for just guessing, your doing a hell of a job. All I have have given are wild speculations thus far. Remember back when I said I was trying to optimize my component set? You guys gave me a couple suggestions to improve the circuit with different parts, but I said I was thinking in a different direction. The point is to get the most natural component set, not necessarily the most efficient.
I'm hoping some of you can prove this for yourselves, otherwise, my explanation would make me sound like a total wacko rather then just half wacked!
t3t4
jeanna said:
Quote
I once saw an article which I cannot find today which describes making many loops out of one telephone wire by connecting the wires by color so they connect in a spiral inside the cable.
I also remember reading an old source that maintained connecting the twisted pairs in a multiconductor cable would then create one long wire in effect. If it was in a circle, the effect was described as being 'like having free energy', or, it may have acted like a capacitor when power was applied to it.
Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity was said to be responsible.
Quote
Does this sound easier? It sounds like less space or less obvious to me.
The description above did help, yes. I'm acquiring more Radio Shack parts for a larger project that may be coming in the future.
--Lee
I'm glad it helped. :D
I was thinking of a free old discarded extension cord, myself. I just got back from the thrift store is why!
I will ask my Q here, although it probably belongs elsewhere.
I was thinking of using a wallwart transformer to increase the volts of my EER.
Lets say I am getting 80mv if I use the 220uH inductor added to my EER.
So, if I use the 120/3v transformer I just took apart, and if I use it in reverse I should be able to get 24v out of it.
Well, I am gonna try, anyway.
My question is about the 2 diodes. I assume I should just solder a wire across them so the EER can go in either direction.
Right?
Or, maybe I should remoe the little circuit board and just hook up the wires. Has anybody else done this?
thanks,
jeanna
jeanna said:
Quote
I was thinking of a free old discarded extension cord, myself. I just got back from the thrift store is why!
Be careful. If it's garbage, then someone threw it away for a reason. Check the continuity first.
Quote
Lets say I am getting 80mv if I use the 220uH inductor added to my EER.
So, if I use the 120/3v transformer I just took apart, and if I use it in reverse I should be able to get 24v out of it.
That should work, as long as low current levels aren't critical.
Quote
My question is about the 2 diodes. I assume I should just solder a wire across them so the EER can go in either direction.
Right?
Make a rectifier? If so, that should be okay. But are the diodes connected to the transformer output? If so, soldering
that connection as a short will cook your transformer, right? The secondary coil output leads would be soldered at the diodes, yes?
Quote
Or, maybe I should remoe the little circuit board and just hook up the wires. Has anybody else done this?
The wires seem simpler to me, but it depends on what you want to do with them? I never took apart a wallwart to see what was inside.
--Lee
Yes jeanna, I have tried this.
I would remove any circuit boards utilized by the transformer. Chips don't resonate, caps and coils do. But you'll need more then 80mv to build a field in the transformer. From my experiments, the transformer can only help you as an inductor at such low voltages. Current is really what it takes, it's the inrush until the field is established.
What you could do is take the stored current from the caps in small pulses, then that transformer will give you something usable. But give it a try either way, I'm sure you'll think of something I did not.
QuoteMy question is about the 2 diodes. I assume I should just solder a wire across them so the EER can go in either direction.
I don't think I understand what you mean.
t3t4
Thank you both,
My math was a decimal off too.
80mv is not the same as .8v! ;D
I would be getting 2.4v ac out of it if it works.
I gather the diodes are because the wall wart doesn't want to let any backup so there are diodes. I never opened one of these before so I was surprised to see them.
I could use just the wires, it is just cut close there and I left about an inch of wire.
there is no chip, t3t4, just the transformer and 2 diodes.
I guess for 79 cents if I break it ... what's to break anyway? just 2 levels of wires.
OK I will first short the diodes on the board and if that doesn't show up as 2.4v on my scope, I will cut the board off and add some wire to the very short wire ends.
thanks,
jeanna
@ jeanna
Quote from: jeanna on August 28, 2009, 06:35:42 PM
Well, I am gonna try, anyway.
My question is about the 2 diodes. I assume I should just solder a wire across them so the EER can go in either direction.
Right?
Or, maybe I should remoe the little circuit board and just hook up the wires. Has anybody else done this?
I would recommend opening the case and removing just the transformer. The diodes are on the wrong side of the transformer if you are using it to increase voltage.
@ jeanna
I did have the wide screen problem. But I was able to fix it by logging off and logging on again.
Thank you xee2,
I did take it apart anyway.
I first shorted the diodes then one wire popped off so I just cut the whole thing away.
This is now a transformer with 2 big wires from the 110v connection on one end and 4! wires on the other.
So, I took my LC meter out with me. I sanded down the wire ends and with the help of the meter determined which ends were one wire and connected the end to beginning. I assume I did it in the right direction.
I find it strange that there are 2 wires for the 3v side of it. There should only be a few turns for this side and many turns on the other. Maybe there are 2 wires on the 110v side too.
Anyhow,
On the scope, I saw moments of 1.55v
Then I also saw some big pulses.
The wire leads are too short for any real connection here, but it proves the concept. I am in fact getting an ac or a pulsed dc that can be used like the secondary output from a joule thief.
I may need to get another one of these things, but first I will try to make this one work even if I destroy it.
Xee2, what is the grey square for?
Is it just a holder? or does it have some electrical function that has to do with the transformer?
It is on the outside of the 2 wound spools.
There are also 2 pieces of plastic that contain guides for these ever so short wires. It is a little in the way. I doubt if the plastic matters, but if the grey square is ferrite or something I don't know about, I guess it needs to stay, so I am asking.
thank you.
It never occured to me to log out. I suppose someday I should do that. :D
I used firefox instead of camino and the problem was solved and also there were updates. It is fine and the objection I had to firefox (a cursor thing) is not so bad with the update.
jeanna
# jeanna
Quote from: jeanna on August 28, 2009, 09:26:13 PM
Xee2, what is the grey square for?
Is it just a holder? or does it have some electrical function that has to do with the transformer?
It is on the outside of the 2 wound spools.
I am not sure what you mean. There may be a square package that holds the 4 diodes. Other than that I have no guess.
Here lets try this
thousand words...
BTW the little short wires are on the lower right. I say this cuz you cannot see them!
j
@ jeanna
Quote from: jeanna on August 28, 2009, 10:08:48 PM
Here lets try this
thousand words...
I would guess that the dark grey rectangular pieces are part of the transformer core assembly.
They seem heavy.
I will leave them as they are and try to solder the short wires together.
thank you,
jeanna
I can't tell, is that transformer center tapped like a 24-0-24v? It kinda looks like 3 wires on the secondary.
t3t4
4 wire ends (2 wires) on the secondary.
1a, 2a,...1b,2b like that
They were soldered onto the board that had the 2 diodes. there was a drawing for 2 more diodes but there were only 2. One of them is now behind the sofa somewhere! :D.
It is made by wahl clipper corp.
It is a step down transformer from 110vac to 3v dc 1.6A
class2 transformer
That's all it says on it.
There is not one of those drawings with the pos indicator. It uses the brand name and model number..
jeanna
Quote from: jeanna on August 28, 2009, 10:08:48 PM
Here lets try this
thousand words...
BTW the little short wires are on the lower right. I say this cuz you cannot see them!
j
The gray square around the outside is the core and I bet it goes through the middle also. They are called "E" cores with an added "I" to make what would look like an "8". A square with a bar throught the middle.
If you look at the picture you can see where the right hand side looks like a separate bar, an "|", that is added to the other piece which is an "E".
If you have 4 little wires, check their continuity to see if they share each other. As someone else said, I bet there is a set of taps so you could get different voltages out of it depending on which wires you used. Most devices have multiple "possible" features that aren't turned on unless you pay for the better model but still has the features built in.
DonL
Ah, that is right, thank you.
There probably is a bar that is the center of both spools of wire.
I wonder about the 2 wires still.
I soldered the end of one to the beginning of the other and will check the EER in the morning. (It is drizzling now so it must stop that first.)
If it is looking like a 6:110 transformer instead of a 3:110 transformer, I will unsolder and resolder the 2 ends and 2 beginnings together. assuming this is for more amps.
Thank you DonL
jeanna
This may help you to visualize.
http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_9/5.html
Quote from: IotaYodi on August 29, 2009, 08:26:30 AM
This may help you to visualize.
http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_9/5.html
Scroll down the page of the above link to the example of boosting.
This is what I believe is happening with the Joule Thief.
DonL
PS: I posted this on the JT forum also.
jeanna said:
Quote
BTW the little short wires are on the lower right. I say this cuz you cannot see them!
I looked at your picture(Reply #2493). The transformer appears to be an industry-standard-type that allows for center tapped secondaries. Radio Shack used to sell them, and may still do. I can barely see two wires on the right side. The other side has inch long, heavy wires for the 120 VAC primary, right? This transformer type is also useful for printed circuit boards, or they were years ago, from my memory.
That grey silvery thingy to the right? Isn't that a printed circuit board? Something convenient to mount stuff like rectifier diodes on?
--Lee
Quote from: the_big_m_in_ok on August 29, 2009, 11:45:14 AM
... The transformer appears to be an industry-standard-type that allows for center tapped secondaries. ...
Oh so, maybe that is the reason for the 4 wire ends.
I destroyed the circuit board when I tried to remove it and the part where the centertapping would be clear shot off somewhere and I have not yet found it. I am glad you explained this. Perhaps this is the meaning of the type 2 or class 2 transformer?
I guess I am now making it the way I want it by soldering end to beginning.
Quote.... The other side has inch long, heavy wires for the 120 VAC primary, right?
Yes, the thick red/orange ones.
Quote
...This transformer type is also useful for printed circuit boards, or they were years ago, from my memory.
Really? as a center tapped secondary?
QuoteThat grey silvery thingy to the right? Isn't that a printed circuit board? Something convenient to mount stuff like rectifier diodes on?
I am glad I did not crop the board from the pic. ;)
thank you,
jeanna
@ jeanna,QuoteOh so, maybe that is the reason for the 4 wire ends.
That's why I asked if this was a center tapped transformer, but I could only make out 3 taps (maybe) from the pic. It could be anything, but it depends on the number of turns on the secondary as well as the number of taps (connection point). Just because it's only using two taps, does not mean it can "only" use two. Do you know what I mean?
But you will probably only find multi-taps on the "secondary" of any transformer, not on the primary. The primary typically has multi-windings for isolation and for different input/output voltages. I currently use a massive 2400va toroidal transformer for power conditioning. It has dual individual primaries, and 5 center tapped secondaries. Which primary I use depends on what voltage I want on the secondaries.
t3t4
It rained all last night so I have nothing else to report.
So, I will add this pic.
I think you misunderstand what I bought.
I think it is just a wall wart. no adjustment is possible.
I had to break it to enter it, so to speak. ;D
But, maybe I misunderstand.
I will have another go at this when the threat of rain has passed.
I am thinking about the unthinkable and opening up a camera circuit to get at that transformer that has 2700 secondary turns.
The thrift store had 2 microwaves the other day. I didn't even look for the price.
Either of those might be able to do something with 45mv... but the camera transformer is sooo tiny.
Talk about feeling blind!
a pic. I stuck the innards back inside for this portrait.
jeanna
QuoteI think it is just a wall wart. no adjustment is possible.
Some are adjustable. Yours may have just been manufactured not using the center tap. Your 2400va toroidal transformer is a plus.
doublepost
I think there is a short.
But there is no evidence of one except when I touch the wire sometimes I see a very very high spike.
I went out again this afternoon and I do not see enough amplification.
But, maybe it is not a short...
Could the frequency be getting in the way?
I bet it is.
I got a beautiful sine wave at 25kHz. like it makes me think there is a leak from a radio station, but without this transformer the lines are all jagged. And there is no clear wave at 25KHz today... sometimes there is.
Here is what I am thinking about this.
There is no free lunch, meaning I cannot go the the thrift store and find an easy way out, because everything is made to work at 60 hz.
A transformer is a double inductor in a way.
If I have any inductor on this that has too much mass, it will be too slow for any oscillation to happen.
So, I think I not only need to wind my own, but I need something that will be happy at very high frequencies, or it will do nothing.
What do you guys think about that?
thank you,
jeanna
@ jeanna
While it is raining why not measure the coil resistance of the transformer. You will want to use the coil with the most resistance for the high voltage output (that should be the original 110 volt input) and the coil with the lowest resistance for your low voltage input.
Today is a bad day for reasons that I have yet to understand fully. I completed my second phase of testing to show you all, but I'm embarrassed by the results. Keep in mind that I don't keep notes, I don't document nor do I have a pictorial or a video log of any kind. So I am simply trying to repeat my previous experiments from memory. Just bare with me, okay?
I will show you below in pictorial form, the capacitor in the sky, but since it sucked so badly, I decided to move on to the inductor in the sky. All of which sucked (enter your own metaphor here)....
From memory, the cap in the sky did quite well. Also from memory, the inductor in the sky did much better.
This day was terribly humid as we have been having a lot of rain/thunder storms here lately. I know why humidity can change results, but not like this it can't, and I won't blame my failure on the weather! My system works rain or shine, day or night, so why do the individual components fail to function today? I can't remember ever receiving such poor results before today.
But, on the plus side of things, this is why I am re-running all of my previous tests. If I did it once, the I should be able to do it twice, correct? But I want to make sure it wasn't a fluke in either case. Well, today's testing consisted of all brand new components, not my originals. All were hand made as before, but all failed "unlike" before! I'm not going to blame the weather, so take the results for what you see.
All tests were performed the same as the last, the same ground, meter, connections, as well as the height. Ground to gutter is 16', same as the last.
I said that I would only tell you the truth, so, here we go. Think what you will, but keep in mind I have one more demonstration remaining. I hope these pic's show up well, their larger then the last batch.
t3t4
Quote from: t3t4 on August 29, 2009, 11:27:22 PM
Today is a bad day for reasons that I have yet to understand fully. I completed my second phase of testing to show you all, but I'm embarrassed by the results. Keep in mind that I don't keep notes, I don't document nor do I have a pictorial or a video log of any kind. So I am simply trying to repeat my previous experiments from memory. Just bare with me, okay?
I will show you below in pictorial form, the capacitor in the sky, but since it sucked so badly, I decided to move on to the inductor in the sky. All of which sucked (enter your own metaphor here)....
From memory, the cap in the sky did quite well. Also from memory, the inductor in the sky did much better.
This day was terribly humid as we have been having a lot of rain/thunder storms here lately. I know why humidity can change results, but not like this it can't, and I won't blame my failure on the weather! My system works rain or shine, day or night, so why do the individual components fail to function today? I can't remember ever receiving such poor results before today.
But, on the plus side of things, this is why I am re-running all of my previous tests. If I did it once, the I should be able to do it twice, correct? But I want to make sure it wasn't a fluke in either case. Well, today's testing consisted of all brand new components, not my originals. All were hand made as before, but all failed "unlike" before! I'm not going to blame the weather, so take the results for what you see.
All tests were performed the same as the last, the same ground, meter, connections, as well as the height. Ground to gutter is 16', same as the last.
I said that I would only tell you the truth, so, here we go. Think what you will, but keep in mind I have one more demonstration remaining. I hope these pic's show up well, their larger then the last batch.
t3t4
Hey, do not ever feel bad about posting results that worked one day, and not the next. In this, lies the information we all need to understand. Why did this work before and not now? What might be different? You mentioned different components, etc. Understanding stuff like this is why we all are here. There are clues here that will help us in our understanding.
I have posted in different topics about things that worked one time but not now. All information is good and, since this is basically a think tank, maybe someone will come up with a reason and this will lead to a better understanding of what might be going on.
So, carry on and, I know myself and many others are glad you are here. It takes guts to post stuff that does not work up to expectations.
Bill
I've been watching what others do here on posting pic's. I just placed 400 x 400 give or take and I think it can go more. Has anyone tried 600 x600 pixels?
Thanks,
t3t4
Thanks Bill, I appreciate the vote of confidence as well as confirmation of what this site is about.
t3t4
@ t3t4
Quote from: t3t4 on August 29, 2009, 11:35:01 PM
I've been watching what others do here on posting pic's. I just placed 400 x 400 give or take and I think it can go more. Has anyone tried 600 x600 pixels?
Thanks,
t3t4
With the new larger posting limits I usually use 640x480. A while back the size of posts was more limited and then I used 320x240.
Quote from: t3t4 on August 29, 2009, 11:35:01 PM
I've been watching what others do here on posting pic's. I just placed 400 x 400 give or take and I think it can go more. Has anyone tried 600 x600 pixels?
Thanks,
t3t4
I like the size you are using.
I have a smallish screen.
Yes, I could probably be ok with a larger pic, but these are very viewable.
It is really nice to see a pic without needing to move the cursor.
And there are some people who use really small screens.
I think the size you are using is great.
jeanna
@ Xee2
QuoteWith the new larger posting limits I usually use 640x480. A while back the size of posts was more limited and then I used 320x240.
Thanks for the confirmation, so I can go larger yet. So I should be able to do 700 x 700 give or take and still fit the page.
I'm a pic fanatic, same as audio/video. Quality is what I'm after and what I would like to show. I can give that to all in download form, but most have expressed a great dislike to downloading pic's. So I'm doing my best to find the happy medium.
Thanks,
t3t4
t3t4,
I think some of the change in results has to do with daily fluctuations which are often 60% from one day to the next, but can be more than 100%.
My results from today showed lower inductance related voltage than previously. The plain EB which only varies a very small amount doesn't show much that is different, or it may even be a little higher since it rained all night and the powdery dryness was replaced with conductivity.
But, the EER with the 2 coils at the ends was down today.
There is a lot to this.
I am glad you are sharing your results.
thank you,
jeanna
edit,
btw, the stubblefield coils both have 360 turns.
60 might be better, but it might not be.
EDIT
PLEASE keep it below 600 x 600!!
I cannot stand the sideways scrolling that is needed when a very large picture controls the width of the page. The word wrap is not handled properly anymore.!!
My findings today are most strange.
We had a lot of rain yesterday and last night.
My 2x4x11' pole for my aluminum plates was really soaked (wet).
While measuring the voltage potential of the wires from my 2 plates I accidentially touched one wire to the wooden pole itself.
To my surprise the voltage potential went from 200mVolt to over 900mV.
So I started measuring the wooden pole and it showed over 700mV itself.
I started measuring the wooden fence, fence post etc. and they all showed over 700mV. After moving the ground rod a little I was able to get over 900mV from the fence post to ground rod.
My first thought was "why use aluminum plates when wooden 2x4's work better". As the 2x4 dried out from the sun today the voltage potential went down some.
This needs more testing.
If any of you have a wooden post or fence please try to measure the voltage potential between it and a ground rod.
My ground rod is 3 foot by 5/8's threaded zinc rod driven 1.5 feet into the ground and is ~4 feet North from the fence post.
DonL
@ jeanna,
My original coil/inductor was made of TV coax cable which is much heavier but also different wire. I had no were near as many turns on it. This original coil is over at my shop in a box, so to be "green" I didn't think it was all that important to waste the fuel. Truth be told, I didn't feel like running over to my shop to get it!
But I have a question, what exactly do you mean by EER? I only know this as an "energy efficiency ratio", but I think you mean something different when you use this abbreviation. Can you clear that up for me?
Thank you,
t3t4
Quote from: t3t4 on August 30, 2009, 12:39:59 AM
@ jeanna,
My original coil/inductor was made of TV coax cable which is much heavier but also different wire. I had no were near as many turns on it. This original coil is over at my shop in a box, so to be "green" I didn't think it was all that important to waste the fuel. Truth be told, I didn't feel like running over to my shop to get it!
But I have a question, what exactly do you mean by EER? I only know this as an "energy efficiency ratio", but I think you mean something different when you use this abbreviation. Can you clear that up for me?
Thank you,
t3t4
EER= Earth Energy Receiver.
We came up with this after many experiments and research. The earth battery (E.B.) as we have been using it is not really a battery at all. We are attempting to receive earth energy so, hence the name. Especially the work with electrodes, antennas, etc. If you have a better description, submit it here and we will look at it. So far, I think this describes what might be going on better than Earth battery.
Your work, I believe, makes this even more evident.
We like to come up with names here so, don't feel bad about not knowing about it.
Actually, the real name is BEER. (Bifilar Earth Energy Receiver) But, this really only applies to the Stubblefield coil replications, ha ha. So, we use EER for now.
Bill
@ DonL
This is not currently going like I had hoped it would, but results are results, plain and simple. I was going to show as best I can that is, there is potential energy in everything. Wood is typically considered a poor conductor, so it's used as an insulator. Problem is, when moisture is present, all bets fly out the window! Wood will suck up moisture because that's what it want's to do.
I will show you sometime what I can receive out of my deck, it might surprise you, or maybe not. Point is, there is potential energy in everything under the right conditions, but sometimes, that's not even provable!
I don't know how many of you study quantum physics, but the basis for all existence is nothing but energy if you can take it apart far enough, analyze thoroughly enough. It all comes down to a dot on a page, without a page at all. I know it sounds ridiculous (maybe), point is, we are all just energy. Everything around us is just energy.
Yeah, I know how ludicrous it sounds. But is it true? Science say's yes....
I can show the dead wood on my deck produces voltage. Why is that?
t3t4
QuoteSo I started measuring the wooden pole and it showed over 700mV itself.
@DonL
I betcha your wooden fence was wet. I betcha the water which has capacitance and adds to the conductivity of the meter probes is doing this. Although .7v seems like a lot. After all .6 is what I often get with a whole earth battery.
@t3t4,
Yes, and thank you Bill for filling in,
EER = earth energy receiver.
I have been using
EB for copper and zinc probes in the ground and
EER for the one with the 2 stubblefield coils at the ends, because it is clear to me that there is some receiver business going on.
And BEER is the real deal, for sure! ;D
Thanks for asking. I am glad you asked.
jeanna
edit add.
I was just watching lecture 22 from Prof Lewin at the mit physics course 8.02.
He was just calculating the current inside a stick of wire and he got 1mA.
The speed of the electron going around is 5 million miles per hour!
If you want to hear my secret idea it is that this is the true source of amps in an ac circuit.
That is because in an ac circuit the amps don't go anywhere the way they do in a dc circuit. but the puzzle has been what is the source?... and it must be the electrons of the material itself. this is why I am so insistant that ac or pulsed dc over time, is the only way to free energy. because the energy doesn't go anywhere in this type of circuit...
j
@ BillQuoteEER= Earth Energy Receiver.
We came up with this after many experiments and research. The earth battery (E.B.) as we have been using it is not really a battery at all. We are attempting to receive earth energy so, hence the name. Especially the work with electrodes, antennas, etc. If you have a better description, submit it here and we will look at it. So far, I think this describes what might be going on better than Earth battery.
Your work, I believe, makes this even more evident.
We like to come up with names here so, don't feel bad about not knowing about it.
Actually, the real name is BEER. (Bifilar Earth Energy Receiver) But, this really only applies to the Stubblefield coil replications, ha ha. So, we use EER for now.
Bill
Thanks again Bill, now I get it!
t3t4
@ jeanna,
QuoteAnd BEER is the real deal, for sure! ;D
A-men, I hear that and will drink to in like kind!
t3t4
@ jeanna,
Quote
If you want to hear my secret idea it is that this is the true source of amps in an ac circuit.
That is because in an ac circuit the amps don't go anywhere the way they do in a dc circuit. but the puzzle has been what is the source?... and it must be the electrons of the material itself. this is why I am so insistant that ac or pulsed dc over time, is the only way to free energy. because the energy doesn't go anywhere in this type of circuit...
I wonder if you know how close to the truth you really are. Can you prove it? If I do my best to prove what you have said, I will be diligently named "wacko" as the result. So who want's to go first?
Like I said before, non of this has quite gone the way I had hoped, especially with my latest results!
The source is the planet and the ionosphere along with man made gadgets in between. It's complicated now because of what has been done. But do try your best to understand this if nothing else....
DC is not natural, it's man made or man's conception of harness or utilization. AC is "natural", and comes form where ever!
t3t4
I agree 100%. Also, we are used to ac at 50 or 60 Hz. That was Tesla's doing and may or may not be the optimum freq. Actually, as I have seen on my scope shots, there are multiple freqs in the earth, none of which are 50-60 hz.
This is why I love being here with you folks. It makes me think well beyond whatever I THOUGHT I knew.
Bill
@ Bill,
I love being here as well, but I wonder sometimes how well I am tolerated.... I know I reach for the stars, so let's just put it that way.
Have you heard of the Schumann resonances?
If not, this may be something you might care to look into, but it's your call. Anyway, if interested, here is a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schumann_Resonance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schumann_Resonance)
This is a basis for some of my theories. But also what I have seen on a scope. Due please keep in mind, (at everyone who reads this) that I have been working on my little experiment for a couple of years now. It's not Tesla specifically, but he is the prominent figure in my studies. The link is a good read and not terribly long, at least I could tolerate it if that means anything. I think I mentioned before that I hate to read! It's the absolute slowest way to obtain information!
But anyway, that's my $0.02 worth.
Thanks again Bill and I do appreciate your work as well as the works of others! There have been many ideas thus far. And I hope to see many more I know it's a cliche, but together we stand, divided we fall.
t3t4
QuoteI started measuring the wooden fence, fence post etc. and they all showed over 700mV
Not surprising. Stubblefield did this with tree roots. Capillary action of wood holding the water until the sun dries it out. Tree roots are much deeper drawing the water up into the branches and leaves through the tree bark. You gradually should lose voltage height wise as the post drys out. I measured a 6 inch square hollow wooden pedestal. Had rain yesterday. The shadowed part had voltage and increased closer to the bottom. The sun side had no voltage as it was dried out. We have had steady rain here in Florida and the voltage on the eb (to me its not an eer until a load is present) has been low. The excess water is creating a voltage drop. From what Ive read water has different ionic reactions with different materials. Maybe the right material or chemical composition would raise the voltage. But how about amps? We need more amps!
Frank
Can someone give me a link where I can SEE the different components and find out just exactly what they are used for? For instance, how do I tell the difference between a resistor and a diode once they have been de-soldered from their board? Is there a chart that tells what the numbers/letters mean that are written on the items? Sometimes there is NOTHING written at all. Remember that computer monitor I was going to take apart and then changed my mind? I opened it yesterday, and finally found the ferrite toroids! Lots of them! So, I had a field day collecting my goodies. However, on this board the resistors and diodes (and all the other parts for that matter) have certain numbers on the board...but that does not tell me anything. It does not say 1K resistor, etc. It just has numbers which I suspect are proprietary to that manufacturer. If I could see a page that showed the part, and told it's value, and what it is used for, that would be most helpful. Remember, I am just starting out in electronics...I have not had YEARS of experience like some of you...so I could use a lot of help if there is anyone so inclined to offer that help.
Another thing.... can anyone tell me what the magnetic caps are used for? I assume they are caps as they look like the others, only they are magnetic.
Lots of questions. Thanks in advance.
Start out with this.
http://www.hobbyprojects.com/general-theory.html
Most resistors are color coded. Larger resistors usually have the value printed on them.
http://www.elexp.com/t_resist.htm
http://itll.colorado.edu/ITLL/index.cfm?fuseaction=ResistorChart
Printing charts and such out will give you a quick reference.
Diodes
http://www.learnabout-electronics.org/diodes_01.php
Learn how to solder also.
http://www.aaroncake.net/electronics/solder.htm
From what I've read, Tesla had it right from the beginning with AC. I never read where he decided to use 60Hz in the US and 50Hz in Europe. I believe that came later at some point. Tesla talks often of high frequency.
I agree everything is made up of energy at some level or rate of vibration.
Now getting into Spiritual concepts, the rate an object vibrates dictates it mass. Example: material objects vibrate slower and spirits vibrate faster. To raise your spritual awareness you have to raise your vibration.
This is enough deviation from the topic.
Back to the fence post that WAS giving me 700mV.
The sun has been out all day today and the post is very dry thus I'm only able to get 25mV.
If nothing else this proves how important it is to insulate our aerial wires from EVERYTHING. Even from things that are not supposed to be able to conduct electricity. So far pvc pipe and plastic hasn't been able to conduct electricity (yet).
DonL
Quote from: dllabarre on August 30, 2009, 01:40:52 PM
From what I've read, Tesla had it right from the beginning with AC. I never read where he decided to use 60Hz in the US and 50Hz in Europe. I believe that came later at some point.
I think that is true, but I cannot find a reference for it, either.
I believe the main reason we are using the sinusoidal 60 (or 50) Hz AC system is because it is better for charging for the amps.
So, we are stuck with it because all our appliances use it.
But, if we could get to figure out how to make heat without the amps, we can use that heat for stuff like the toaster etc.
I 'downloaded' the realization that tesla also got a bunch of months ago and told Bill and Gary and some others, but that was just to tell someone.
I was not ready to argue the reasons yet, so I kept it quiet.
I had this wonderful thought the other day... and it is the reason I have been studying prof Lewin.
I see he comes very close to the explanation but ignores it. I am not finished yet, so he may say it.
Here it is not in a differential equation way, but the old ohm's law way.
E=IR
At the moment of the back pulse there is clearly no R or not much.
The inductor of the system has just let go.
And for that one moment between the up and down of the spike, the resistance is nil.
This means E=I x 0, which means E=0 which is nonsense because it goes way up.
However, if the resistance is almost nothing, the E=I
That means that when the voltage spikes to 200v, the current is almost 200A.
But the time is very small.
E/R=I means that the current in amps is the voltage divided by the resistance (nil)
See?
QuoteTesla talks often of high frequency.
Right.
So, to continue...
In Faraday's law (differential and integral equations) the time factor is how it is expressed and the change of time is what approaches 0.
So, the only time you get into the situation of needing lots of amperage for use is when you have a slow time,
like 60 hz. and you
need that to do any work at low 110v volts.
If you picture those very skinny spikes pushed together 50k or 200k times per second, you can really see why he was telling us to get high frequency.
It is because the amps are available in a more steady way when the high spikes are happening a lot.
whew!
jeanna
@ jeanna,
QuoteIf you picture those very skinny spikes pushed together 50k or 200k times per second, you can really see why he was telling us to get high frequency.
I see the same thing! In my system, I'm tuning to a very high frequency, but also a very low frequency as well. If my understanding is correct, then by making this device sing, we should be able to extract all the power we need. It's just damn hard to do.
t3t4
QuoteI never read where he decided to use 60Hz in the US and 50Hz in Europe. I believe that came later at some point. Tesla talks often of high frequency.
60 hz transformers were more economical to build than 50hz. Distribution power lines were more efficient at 50 hz. It was just a matter of money as to how the standards came about. AEG from germany had a virtual monopoly and their standard spread to the rest of Europe. They first operated at 40 hz but flickering lights dictated a higher frequency to 50hz. Tesla didnt have a say as far as having 50 or 60hz for a standard...
Quote from: t3t4 on August 30, 2009, 03:47:55 PM
@ jeanna,
I see the same thing! In my system, I'm tuning to a very high frequency, but also a very low frequency as well.
Cool.
How is it you are tuning?
Are you using the caps to tune?
Or, inductors?
Have you made a conical inductor yet?
QuoteIf my understanding is correct, then by making this device sing, we should be able to extract all the power we need.
Maybe the singing can do enough.
But, maybe not.
I have seen many singing waves on my joule thief circuits, but it didn't mean I could extract anything I wanted.
QuoteIt's just damn hard to do.
It sure is!
I think after we get through the damn hard to do part, we are still gonna need to modify the toaster.
We are not going to be able to transform it back down... I think.
Maybe we will be.
...
Bring out the inductors.
I think Stubblefield was closer to extracting from the earth than Tesla was.
They had a different idea of what to do... Sort of like all of us here!
There was an example of what Tesla needed to do to get the slow and heavy dc motors to go once the world had been converted to ac.
Or, maybe it was to convince people they could use the same motors and switch to ac.
He had to use a cap to send out a strong burst in order to start it up.
It always reminds me of the radiant from the air patent we are talking about here.
I think the info is in that book Mark found from scribd.
jeanna
@ jeanna,
QuoteCool.
How is it you are tuning?
Are you using the caps to tune?
Or, inductors?
Have you made a conical inductor yet?
Both, but I try my best to use free air devices as much as possible. So in other words, I build variable air capacitors and inductors. I think I mentioned before that basically, I'm building a half a$$ am radio receiver. But it's not the radio waves I'm looking for, it's something else as I'm sure you already know. But no, I have not built a conical inductor, I actually try to stay away from earthly shapes. I just don't receive good results when I have used some of these shapes. A resonating straight line, now that seems to work!
QuoteMaybe the singing can do enough.
But, maybe not.
I have seen many singing waves on my joule thief circuits, but it didn't mean I could extract anything I wanted.
This is my concern also. All I have been able to do well so far, is charge batteries. Where I ended does make a kick butt battery charger, but that is not what I'm after. I'll show you then, but for right now, I'm re-running my old experiments to see if there is something I missed. Apparently I did miss something as per yesterdays results. I'm only finding now that this experiment is not as easy as I thought it was to obtain something usable. I wonder if I just got lucky the first time around. Either way, I'm going to prove it!
I have a beautiful day to work with today, low humidity, bright sunshine and a cool breeze. So I'm re-running yesterdays tests, and I'm still getting crap for results!
Tomorrow I'm going over to my shop to find my original components. In both cases, what I built shouldn't matter, but it does for some reason. I just gots ta know why!
Quote
I think after we get through the damn hard to do part, we are still gonna need to modify the toaster.
That's freekin hilarious! LOL.... But probably true.
QuoteBring out the inductors.
Yes mam!
QuoteI think Stubblefield was closer to extracting from the earth than Tesla was.
They had a different idea of what to do...
I don't know, from what I have read, it sounds quite similar to me, principle wise that is.
t3t4
Quote from: jeanna on August 30, 2009, 04:45:41 PM
I think the info is in that book Mark found from scribd.
jeanna
What book mark? URL?
IotaYodi,
Thank you! All of that is of MUCH help! I wont forget those few who have actually answered my questions and helped. Some people seem to forget that (just like me) they were once just starting out, too.
I appreciate you taking the time to give me the links! Again, thank you!
Here are the basic results from today's re-test of yesterday's failure. I only focused on the inductor since I already know it does better then the capacitor from previous tests. Maybe you guys can prove otherwise, but I have not. So do please try everything at your leisure. This inductor is the same one I used yesterday on the same tripod, set up the exact same way as before.
I had a thought that the iron in the stone wall was stealing from me, I proved it today by getting away from the wall, but still with lack luster results. So, I resorted to my old stand by, when in doubt, go higher and deeper! In this example, I only went higher, but also away from the wall. The distance is greater then it looks, but you'll get the basic idea from the pic's below.
Thanks,
t3t4
a couple more
last one..
I learned today that the maximum posting limit is 300Kb. That's the reason for multi-posting. The pic's were too large for one post.
t3t4
Quote from: dllabarre on August 30, 2009, 05:31:54 PM
What book mark? URL?
Sorry,
this one:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/4560179/The-Researches-and-Writings-of-Nikola-Tesla-518pp1894 (http://www.scribd.com/doc/4560179/The-Researches-and-Writings-of-Nikola-Tesla-518pp1894)
My original link was deleted, but this is on there now.
If you can, I suggest you get a copy.
It is 514 pages and well worth every page.
I found it remarkably easy to get into the mindset of his times just by reading his lectures.
I noticed things like his reference to
"The common inductor coil".
Wow, the world has changed.
We no longer have a novelty in the front parlor called an inductor coil.
enjoy.
jeanna
Quote from: t3t4 on August 30, 2009, 07:09:48 PM
last one..
Maybe your meter is not reading the vac properly.
We found that out last year when we were sticking probes in the ground.
I never saw any real ac until I had my little scope on this stuff.
What my meter told me was an interpretation extrapolated from the dc that was present.
Maybe it is the same for you??
What did you get last time?
jeanna
@ jeanna,
QuoteMaybe your meter is not reading the vac properly.
We found that out last year when we were sticking probes in the ground.
I never saw any real ac until I had my little scope on this stuff.
What my meter told me was an interpretation extrapolated from the dc that was present.
Maybe it is the same for you??
What did you get last time?
Yes, this is why I said in the beginning that we should be using analog meters and testing equipment. I'm doing my best to show results by using what we all have and typically use every day. I'll get into some heavier stuff later, but right now, some of my equipment is out on loan. I have to get it back before I can show otherwise.
From memory, with a very crude inductor, far less then what I showed here, I received almost 7 VAC at the same location as well as altitude. I would think that more turns would be better, however, I'm quickly learning the opposite. I don't have it all figured out either, but I'm learning.... I can tell you this though, every-time I stick to basics while doing it naturally as far as component selection is concerned, I get results. There is something to that I believe.
By the way, thanks for posting that book, I did download it and have scanned it briefly. I see a lot in there so far to support many theories as well as designs. It will take me a while, but I might actually read through this.
Thanks,
t3t4
@protonmom
Your quite welcome. I had been on dialup at home for about 20 years until recently so I know how it goes.
I added a Diode page to the above post. At the bottom of the page there is "next". It basically shows you different diodes and what their purpose is.
There isnt a lot of images on one page so it should help with the dial-up.
http://www.learnabout-electronics.org/diodes_01.php
Quote from: jeanna on August 30, 2009, 07:32:28 PM
Sorry,
this one:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/4560179/The-Researches-and-Writings-of-Nikola-Tesla-518pp1894 (http://www.scribd.com/doc/4560179/The-Researches-and-Writings-of-Nikola-Tesla-518pp1894)
jeanna
Thanks Jeanna
This is a very good read.
PLEASE everyone.
Copy important files and patents to CDs for backup in case it gets deleted from the Internet and your computer crashes.
Also try to print the really important documents "just in case".
DonL
protonmom:
What I do with resistors I have salvaged from a board is to just check them with my meter. There is a color and band code but my way is easier and faster than looking them all up. Just set your meter on ohms and check each resistor and record the resistance. I put them all into little containers sorted by resistance.
Bill
I have in my collection, the total works of Tesla, among others. But some have expressed a great dis-like towards downloads. I would be happy to post my collection if at least some are interested.
I have 101+ Tesla patents in .pdf form, along with movies and video documentaries. Also, I have Moray's work on file, as well as Steven Mark's TPU devise. From all I have seen, tested and read about, it all comes back to Tesla. But if at least some of you are interested in a rather large download, then just tell me where you would like me to place this stuff and I will upload it. I have it all backed up on 3 different drives as well as DVD.
So just say when and what you have interest in as well as where you want me to put it.
t3t4
@ bill,
QuoteWhat I do with resistors I have salvaged from a board is to just check them with my meter. There is a color
and band code but my way is easier and faster than looking them all up
A-men, me too!
t3t4
Jeanna, thanks for the link to the book. Now if I can just find the time to actually READ it.... ;D
DonL Yes, it is very important to copy things off to cd's or even to jump drives or externals if that is the way you need to go. I have cd's with all sorts of information. Again, it is just a matter of being able to get to them one of these days....at least I do have them for the days when I can take the time to look at them.
Iota Yodi, thanks for that added link for the diodes. All of that information makes it look clear (or at least MORE clear!). I am one of those people who need pictures instead of just words.
Bill, Thank you. I was wondering about checking them but was not sure how. So I just hook it up to ohms. Sounds okay. I will give it a try.
So, does anyone know anything about those magnetic caps? Also there is one that looks like a coil which is also magnetic. I have a pic which I could upload if that would help. The two which look like caps are rubber coated, and have these numbers on them...(1) has ... 2034 LAE on the one side. On the other side it says: 301 LAE 6119006
(2) The next rubber coated one has 2031 LAE and other side says 00 LAE 61190063
The one which looks like a coil (with a cap on top)? (looks like a cap to me...probably is not)... it says 28177601010 CMX 0241
Anyway, all three are magnetic.
Any clue???
QuoteSo, does anyone know anything about those magnetic caps? Also there is one that looks like a coil which is also magnetic. I have a pic which I could upload if that would help. The two which look like caps are rubber coated, and have these numbers on them...(1) has ... 2034 LAE on the one side. On the other side it says: 301 LAE 6119006
(2) The next rubber coated one has 2031 LAE and other side says 00 LAE 61190063
The one which looks like a coil (with a cap on top)? (looks like a cap to me...probably is not)... it says 28177601010 CMX 0241
Anyway, all three are magnetic.
Any clue???
I too would like to know more about what you describe. To the best of my knowledge, there is no such thing as a magnetic cap, that is if we are speaking in terms of a capacitor. You might be looking at a photo flash cap, these are a little different then the standard.
But a pic would be beneficial, can you show us?
Thanks,
t3t4
I've read and downloaded about half of Teslas patents (ones that interested me), all of Morays and Stubblefields plus all the technical notes, paper clippings, etc. I could find.
This last one from Jeanna has a items I've read elsewhere but its always good to reread things a few times.
The one item we really need from Tesla is his last invention.
A motor that runs on radiant energy. Too bad he was murdered before the technical information was released to the public.
DonL
QuoteThe one item we really need from Tesla is his last invention.
A motor that runs on radiant energy. Too bad he was murdered before the technical information was released to the public.
His last invention to the best of my knowledge was the death ray. The radiant energy patent you already have, which is the utilization of radiant energy which shows how to run a motor, gadget, etc. I used to be stuck on just one thing, but after reading over the patents many times now, I later came to realize the answer is in all of them, not just one! And no, that's not some conspiracy theory or anything like that. It's just what I see, which is a pattern.
But that's just my $0.02 worth.
If you have a specific patent your after, give me the number and I'll see if I have it. I'm fairly certain that I have all which are publicly available and maybe some that are not.
Thanks,
t3t4
Quote from: t3t4 on August 30, 2009, 09:05:35 PM
I have in my collection, the total works of Tesla, among others. But some have expressed a great dis-like towards downloads. I would be happy to post my collection if at least some are interested.
...
So just say when and what you have interest in as well as where you want me to put it.
The total works?
Maybe the greatest gift you could give would be to upload it in sensible chunks to scribd.com
Each book by title.
The total patents.
Like that.
Then give us the link!
That way others could get the goodies too. I am sure there are plenty of people who have given up on this site who might like it.
I too have many things Tesla.
There is a website with all of his patents.
I doubt if I have more than 20 of them, however.
So, I suggest scribd.com.
I have not tried to upload anything, but it must not be too hard. Esp since you have a fast connection.
Just my thought.
jeanna
@ jeanna,
scribd.com would not be my first choice. I have taken from there a few times now and not given anything back. There is a reason for this. The simple reason is time! If I break all this stuff down, can you imagine how much time that will take alone? Then to post individually each item? I'd be looking at weeks, not hours. I mean no offense whatsoever! But I'm just one guy, so I can't give you all weeks in one shot, but I can do it slowly over time.
I would prefer something like rapidshare.com in a simple and quick zip file. But again, that's up to the rest of you.
t3t4
Quote from: t3t4 on August 30, 2009, 10:04:55 PM
His last invention to the best of my knowledge was the death ray.
Thanks,
t3t4
If you read the newspaper clipping from his last birthday celebration, he announced he finally accomplished his long dream of inventing a motor that ran on radiant energy. Then he was killed....
DonL
QuoteIf you read the newspaper clipping from his last birthday celebration, he announced he finally accomplished his long dream of inventing a motor that ran on radiant energy. Then he was killed....
DonL
This "is" news to me. I cannot say one way or the other except, thanks for the info.
t3t4
Quote from: t3t4 on August 30, 2009, 11:43:16 PM
This "is" news to me. I cannot say one way or the other except, thanks for the info.
t3t4
Tesla states:
"More than 25 years ago I began my efforts to harness the cosmic rays and I can now state that I have succeeded in operating a motive device by means of them."
http://www.geeman-headquarters.com/TeslaRadiantEnergySystem.pdf
http://www.nuenergy.org/alt/tesla_energy.htm
DonL
Quote"More than 25 years ago I began my efforts to harness the cosmic rays and I can now state that I have succeeded in operating a motive device by means of them."
Now that sounds familiar to me, but motive device is my point and is shown in the patent. Not a motor specifically, but close to it by conventional terms.
Thanks for the links, I appreciate them all!
t3t4
Quote from: t3t4 on August 31, 2009, 12:08:19 AM
Now that sounds familiar to me, but motive device is my point and is shown in the patent. Not a motor specifically, but close to it by conventional terms.
Thanks for the links, I appreciate them all!
t3t4
True. But it took until he was 75 until he was able to operate that motive device using just radiant energy. This my point. And I believe this is what got him killed.
DonL
@ DonL,QuoteTrue. But it took until he was 75 until he was able to operate that motive device using just radiant energy. This my point. And I believe this is what got him killed.
Perhaps, or perhaps not. Anyone who has read the story of Tesla should have no problem in understanding the government/military interest in this man. I don't know that he was murdered, but that is only one of many things that I don't know.
The culmination of his work is what I focus upon, it's not any one thing specifically. Either I will be correct or I will be proven as a fool. But either way I at least will know. I have no interest in putting 75 years to waste, so with that said, I also have no interest in wasting the rest of my remaining years. I do firmly believe that I/we can duplicate his results. We just have to try harder, and by harder I mean letting go of what we all read in books and online. It has long since been proven that science is not always correct. Tesla has proven even Einstein wrong!
The answer lies in nature, you just have to see it for what it is! That's all I can say about that.
t3t4
Quote from: t3t4 on August 31, 2009, 12:57:46 AM
@ DonL,
Perhaps, or perhaps not. Anyone who has read the story of Tesla should have no problem in understanding the government/military interest in this man. I don't know that he was murdered, but that is only one of many things that I don't know.
The culmination of his work is what I focus upon, it's not any one thing specifically. Either I will be correct or I will be proven as a fool. But either way I at least will know. I have no interest in putting 75 years to waste, so with that said, I also have no interest in wasting the rest of my remaining years. I do firmly believe that I/we can duplicate his results. We just have to try harder, and by harder I mean letting go of what we all read in books and online. It has long since been proven that science is not always correct. Tesla has proven even Einstein wrong!
The answer lies in nature, you just have to see it for what it is! That's all I can say about that.
t3t4
I totally agree!
DonL
Thanks Don,
I hope you believe and understand, that I mean no disrespect to anyone! I'm just doing my best, as best I know how to do. But thank you for agreeing with me Don, it really help to know that I'm not alone. I have many friends as well as my wife, but none can hang with me on this subject, let alone this level. I'm sure some of you at least know what I'm talking about.
Thanks again,
t3t4
I hope this shows up correctly. All three are magnetic. I tied a string to only one and it lifted the other two. I doubt the little one would lift the two big ones, but it is still magnetic on its own. Why would they be magnetic and does anyone know what they are? I call the two big ones caps because on the board the first letter was a C.
Quote from: protonmom on August 31, 2009, 10:31:42 AM
I hope this shows up correctly. All three are magnetic. I tied a string to only one and it lifted the other two. I doubt the little one would lift the two big ones, but it is still magnetic on its own. Why would they be magnetic and does anyone know what they are?
I'm just throwing this out because one looks like my variable inductor I bought from Digikey. The numbers and letters don't match but they could be manufacturer specific.
Is there a slot on top that you could use a screw driver with to turn the inside? This is how my variable inductor works anyways.
Don
Hi protonmom,
The little one with the copper wire exposed is an inductor.
(In some of my posts I have been saying, "I added a 220uH inductor". It looks exactly like that.)
It must be a magnet because it was magnetized by being used?, but I didn't think ferrite kept the magnetization.
Maybe the other 2 are also, but I do not know about them.
You could put the copper one in series with a pulsing circuit and see if it enhances it.
That could happen if it is the right size. And since computers or tvs are in high frequency levels it might be.
Then you will want a meter so you can know what it is!
Ah, it never ends, does it?
But get the scope first!
:D,
jeanna
I believe they are all inductors, one variable and two fixed. Being obviously magnetic, now that's interesting. Nice pic's by the way, now I understand what you are talking about.
My best guess, these are iron core inductors which could retain a magnetic polarity. I think iron cores are used typically in low frequency applications, but don't quote me on that.
t3t4
I thought they would have lost their magnetism by now, but they are all three still going strong. Now on the large ones there is a neg and pos side. On one I found a number of(160) only the zero looks like it has a slash line through it. The other one has the number125 (degrees) (I don't know how to put the degree mark in here) And then there is a V and the rest is covered with that former label of 2031 LAE. Actually that "V" might be a "W" since it is covered I cannot tell. Just past the label there is what appears to be a minus sign.
There are NO screw slots for adjustment on any of the three. The material on the little one which Jeanna says is an inductor looks to be plastic, but the material inside the large ones almost looks like ferrite. There is a very large negative push when you put the two side by side. Wonder how that might be useful to me.
Quote from: protonmom on August 31, 2009, 10:31:42 AM
I hope this shows up correctly. All three are magnetic. I tied a string to only one and it lifted the other two. I doubt the little one would lift the two big ones, but it is still magnetic on its own. Why would they be magnetic and does anyone know what they are? I call the two big ones caps because on the board the first letter was a C.
Hi all,
These coils are so called linearity coils used in television sets and computer monitors with CRT tubes, in the horizontal output stages. The magnet is used for fine-tuning possibility for the coil's inductance, normally by a cylinder ferrite magnet magnetized through its diameter and attached to one end of the coil ferrite core. This way the magnet's flux closes via the core and can change the core's permeability when you slightly turn the magnet mechanically.
http://news.thomasnet.com/fullstory/464468
See here for instance
http://www.premmagnetics.com/3500.html
http://www.premmagnetics.com/82xx.html
rgds, Gyula
I learned something today that some may find interesting. I've been re-running my previous tests as you know, some of which have shown lack luster results. I'm finally getting to the source of the reason.
The answer is, wire size and type of wire. I honestly thought these minuscule details to be unimportant, but apparently the opposite is true.
Originally I was using 2 conductor phone cords as extension cords. In all pic's shown by me thus far, I have used real electrical extension cords, not phone cords. Also, I used magnet wire as extension cords in my original tests. Here in lies the difference. When I go back to basics, I get much better results. I had no idea this little change could make such a difference, but I'm here to tell you it means everything. It's all induction and resonance. You will see that I do end with magnet wire, but I'm not ready to show that yet, the set up will take time.
So take it for what it's worth.
Thanks,
t3t4
Quote from: gyulasun on August 31, 2009, 06:13:52 PM
http://www.premmagnetics.com/3500.html
http://www.premmagnetics.com/82xx.html
rgds, Gyula
Thank you gyula,
Those curves are interesting.
DC current to inductance.
I would not have guessed.
@protonmom,
I will check mine to see if I have a magnet in mine.I bought them as simple inductors which are 220uH.
They weigh too much to be plastic which is what I was going to mention to you as the way to tell, however, if gyula's inductor with a magnet inside is what you have, then it will weigh more than plastic too.
@t3t4,
This is very interesting information.
Thank you so much for sharing it.
I have always wondered about
a- the need for the special magnet wire and
b- stranded vs unstranded wire.
I am using stranded this year on both my EB and BEER's in the ground because I got such low results last year using 24g tele wire.
I won't switch again this year but I am glad to know there might be a difference in the ariel part at least.
I remember Bill used 14g hook up wire which was stranded last year. I have been assuming he still is this year.
thanks everybody,
jeanna
T3:
Do you think it might be because the additional magnet wire is like an antenna extension? I too have used regular extension cords of fairly heavy gauge as connector wires. It is convenient and, the larger wire size keeps resistance low.
But, as you said, a change like that could and would effect the resonance a lot.
This is very important and I have seen this a lot on here, and other sites. If someone does an experiment and then others "replicate" it, except instead of a 1k resistor they used a 400k, and instead of a 300 volt cap they use a 40 volt cap and instead of copper wire they used aluminum....well...you get the idea. I just really detest when this happens and then folks say hey, I tried your experiment but it does not work.
My point is, that this is your experiment and you made what you thought was a slight change and it does not work as before. So, I think there is an important lessen here for all of us. One change, no matter how small we think it is at the time may alter the experiment and therefore the results.
I also hate when folks have a great device working, and then take it apart to "improve" it and then can't get it to work again. (I am not speaking of you here)
I applaud your efforts here and thank you for sharing this information. A lot of folks would not admit to not having as good results as before. Knowing all of the information is key to understanding how a system or circuit might be working and why.
Please keep us posted on your efforts. We are all in this together.
Bill
Ditto Pirate. Research like this requires details. If you have a working model its better to leave it alone and replicate it again. Even a manufactured identical part from two manufacturers may cause a difference. This is scientific research and it needs to be approached as such. Documentation along with images is not that hard to do.
Still raining here and my bare Eb is still around 60 v
@ Bill,
QuoteDo you think it might be because the additional magnet wire is like an antenna extension?
Yes, that is exactly what I'm thinking, but I can also prove it.
QuoteBut, as you said, a change like that could and would effect the resonance a lot.
Yes it does, and this is why I wonder if I just got lucky the first time.
QuoteI just really detest when this happens and then folks say hey, I tried your experiment but it does not work.
I do so sincerely apologize for my mistake, and I mean that to all! But like I said before, if you screw up correctly, the whole world get's to see it.
QuoteMy point is, that this is your experiment and you made what you thought was a slight change and it does not work as before. So, I think there is an important lessen here for all of us. One change, no matter how small we think it is at the time may alter the experiment and therefore the results.
I also hate when folks have a great device working, and then take it apart to "improve" it and then can't get it to work again. (I am not speaking of you here)
I absolutely agree, along with keeping notes and writing all this stuff down in detail. That is something I don't do, but I need to start doing exactly that. However, where I end, I have been able to duplicate many times now, so nothing is really lost, but there are some things I am learning along the way. It's only the individual components that have failed to meet expectation, but now I know why, and so do most of you.
My first demonstration worked, and that was honestly the first time I have ever used an extension cord. Again I apologize to all, but I honestly never thought that such change would occur by using a standard household extension cord. It worked as an aerial alone, and that was the first time I tried using it as such. I should have known better, but I didn't. I'm sorry... I guess it was just my time to be the idiot.
QuoteI applaud your efforts here and thank you for sharing this information. A lot of folks would not admit to not having as good results as before. Knowing all of the information is key to understanding how a system or circuit might be working and why.
Please keep us posted on your efforts. We are all in this together.
I said before that I will only tell you all the truth. Although, I never thought I would receive such poor test results as I did. Point is, results are results and truth is truth. I may be a bit eccentric, but I'm always honest. I thank you all for your tolerance in every way. Where this ends may or may not be interesting to you all. Some may think there is some kind of a secret that I'm hiding, but I assure you that is not the case. I have told everyone truthfully how this system works to the best of my knowledge.
It's not magic, it's just induction and resonance. That's honestly all there is to it! Some may want to take it all apart even further, but I personally have no interest. Anyone that tried to duplicate my first demonstration should be able to see the basis of operation. All you have to do in order to get more power is go higher/deeper and tune it to induct more in either case.
The ionosphere resonates between 106Mhz and 108Mhz, but the planet resonates on it's lowest frequency at about 6 Hz. Simply marry the two in one system. I have said all this before, I think anyway. But in either case, again I thank you all for the tolerance you have shown. Do please bare with me, even when I think I know something, this simple little glitch pops up to make me rethink it all.
I'm still at the same point I began, but now I have greater understanding due to my mistake. That's a good thing if you ask me. And you all can learn with me without the public embarrassment. So, it's all good if you ask me.
Thanks again to all. Give me some time, but I can recreate my results. I did it today, or rather, I got close to it. Point is, I know why I failed the second time. And now, so do all of you.
t3t4
Heres some good points from Bodkins. This applys to more than Eb's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFg_eSOz3EQ
I have a question...
Have any of you tried to marry the earth battery to the radiant energy receiver by using them in combination? If so, can you tell me, was it good or bad?
Thanks,
t3t4
Also, whenever your doing experiments, only change ONE variable at a time. No matter how insignificant you think a change is, only do 1 change at a time and fully test it. If it doesn't improve your results, change it back and retest to verify you're actually back to the original set up before making a new change.
It's extremely important to document what your doing. With computers now it's so easy to make a list of items in NotePad or WordPad.
A chronological list of every change and result. It doesn't have to be a 500 word essay everytime you change something. Just 1-2 lines.
I actually like using power point and creating a picture with documentation added to the picture explaining my setup and test results.
DonL
Quote from: t3t4 on August 31, 2009, 10:34:42 PM
I have a question...
Have any of you tried to marry the earth battery to the radiant energy receiver by using them in combination? If so, can you tell me, was it good or bad?
Thanks,
t3t4
A simple test I did was bad because they are both positive for my setup.
DonL
Quote from: t3t4 on August 31, 2009, 10:34:42 PM
I have a question...
Have any of you tried to marry the earth battery to the radiant energy receiver by using them in combination? If so, can you tell me, was it good or bad?
Thanks,
t3t4
I think that was my reasoning behind adding the 2 stubblefield coils to the ends of the EB.
My results went way way up.
The eb typically gets 7.5mvAC I am referring to AC since that is what I believe you are talking about.
When I added the first stub to the south end the mv went to about 25-35mv and then with the one on the north they went to 48 to 55mv.
Now, in the past week I have been trying to find a good inductor to add to the middle and the best I can find so far is the storebought 220uH inductor.
If I add that the numbers go up another 20mV. and average around 75-85mv.
But just to say the peak voltage I got yesterday was 115mv.
So the total is low, because it is all in the millivolts range, but the fluctuations are natural, and I am hoping to find a better combination in the near future.
I made a youtube video to show how the stubblefield coil acts as a radiant receiver.
I had the
secondary of the stubblefield coil connected to the scope when I turned on a joule thief and the scope showed that the stubblefield coil was receiving 105mv. This time it was without much variation.
BTW the coils that I am using on the BEER do not perform as well as the one in the first video. But also, the
BEER is not using the secondaries of those coils.
If you missed that video here it is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_wAsAeUIHA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_wAsAeUIHA)
(the next video shows 2 more with the same effect, but smaller voltages.)
Oh I must add my bit about making mistakes in public.
I really appreciate that you have the courage to show the mistake.
It helps us all and, really what is a mistake?
nothing.
but mistakes are a way to move forward as much as successes are.
so thank you t3t4,
jeanna
Interesting, I have seen this similarly which makes me wonder what is positive and what is negative.
In the automotive realm when dealing with DC voltage or current, you find the negative moves towards the positive. All current flows from negative. Why is that?
I don't claim to know. I can only say, that seems to be how it wants to move. I have found both positive and negative potential within the earth. Which is greater? I still do not know.
Thanks for the update.
t3t4
My results from the 2 aluminum plates got worse when I unattached the wires from the pole and insulated them from touching the pole and even worse by separating the 2 wires from each other.
So my conclusion is that most of the mV I was getting came from the wires being attached to the pole and the wires being together even though insulataed from each other. I was using a standard 12/2 with ground house wire. The kind of wire that's in the walls of houses.
Now I'm moving on from using the pole and aluminum plates.
DonL
Quote from: t3t4 on August 31, 2009, 11:23:07 PM
I have found both positive and negative potential within the earth. Which is greater? I still do not know.
Thanks for the update.
t3t4
My EB...
1/2 inch copper pipe 4 feet long, 5/8 inch zinc threaded rod 3 feet long.
22 feet of 12 gauge copper insulated wire between them.
Aligned North copper pipe to South zinc rod, adjusted for 12 degrees off of magnetic North and adjusted for depth of magnetic lines in my location.
The ground here is 8-12 inches of dirt then all sand below that. I've dug a hole over 4 feet deep and its all sand.
1,000 years ago (or more) there used to be a river here hence all the sand.
I've never got more then .9 votls. I've read where people get 2-4 volts with very similar set ups. I average .6 volts. I think it's the sand because sand doesn't hold water very well.
The copper pipe is always positive thus the zinc rod is always negative for me.
DonL
No, thank you jeanna,I'm quite used to being looked down upon, so I have no fear of that. Actually, the only thing I fear anymore is spiders and heights. Only because I can't seem to kick the habit I guess! Spiders just freak me out cause their the ugliest looking things I have ever seen. Heights scare me, because I know how bad it will hurt when I hit the ground. It's funny though, I've gone sky diving to beat my fear, and what I found was, falling is the most fun you will ever have! It's getting into the plane that makes your butt pucker up, and then the take off! But falling is easy, and a lot of fun if you ask me!
QuoteI think that was my reasoning behind adding the 2 stubblefield coils to the ends of the EB.
My results went way way up.
The eb typically gets 7.5mvAC I am referring to AC since that is what I believe you are talking about.
When I added the first stub to the south end the mv went to about 25-35mv and then with the one on the north they went to 48 to 55mv.
Now, in the past week I have been trying to find a good inductor to add to the middle and the best I can find so far is the storebought 220uH inductor.
If I add that the numbers go up another 20mV. and average around 75-85mv.
But just to say the peak voltage I got yesterday was 115mv.
So the total is low, because it is all in the millivolts range, but the fluctuations are natural, and I am hoping to find a better combination in the near future.
I made a youtube video to show how the stubblefield coil acts as a radiant receiver.
I had the secondary of the stubblefield coil connected to the scope when I turned on a joule thief and the scope showed that the stubblefield coil was receiving 105mv. This time it was without much variation.
BTW the coils that I am using on the BEER do not perform as well as the one in the first video. But also, the BEER is not using the secondaries of those coils.
If you missed that video here it is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_wAsAeUIHA
(the next video shows 2 more with the same effect, but smaller voltages.)
Oh I must add my bit about making mistakes in public.
I really appreciate that you have the courage to show the mistake.
It helps us all and, really what is a mistake?
nothing.
but mistakes are a way to move forward as much as successes are.
so thank you t3t4,
jeanna
I had to quote your whole post because I feel it's important. The Ac is what I am personally most interested in, but not when trying to charge batteries, for obvious reasons. If we want power to run our homes or whatever, then focus on the AC. Otherwise, if we want to charge batteries which is where I began, even dead ones that have been declared junk, then we want to focus on DC. It's easy to transform AC into DC, but it's not so easy to understand how you can put 1.6 VAC in and receive 3.2 VDC out. And actually, it goes beyond that. But, how do you receive more out then what you put in? All of which is free mind you. It's not stealing, but rather harnessing or otherwise utilizing.
It's all about frequency and resonance, as simple as it sounds, it's still true.
Thank you jeanna as well as the rest who have been able to participate. I tell you all honestly, I have interest in jeanna. No, not because she is a woman, but because she is some 6000 miles away from me on the same continent. We are about 180* degrees different. That means something to me. If she can do there what I can do here, then it seriously limits the number of variables.
I don't quite understand why your not receiving the same results as I am. Even my first demonstration showed well over a volt, and I did it sloppy. So, could you show me what your doing please? I'd really like to see it. I have no doubt whatsoever, that with your current understanding, you can far exceed me. All I ask, is that you look at what you see, don't hit the books every time you have a question. Just take it all for what it is. I will help in every way that I can.
And thank you for the video jeanna. Yes, there may be something going on there. But I said before, inductance, inductance, inductance, and then make it resonate! I will honestly do my best to show this. But I do so wish I had a video camera. I used to, but I sold it. Yeah, not one of my best moves, I know.
But thanks again to all,
t3t4
Can some one with an inductance meter and a bifilar toroid try this for me?
I was measuring some of the toroids I have taken out of devices like TVs and computer power supplies when I came across something strange.
First I measured the inductance when connected to the beginning and end of the first wire and got 36.8uH. Then the beginning and end of the second wire and got 36.6uH.
I'm always for trying something really strange just to see what happens.
I then measured connected to the beginning of the first and to the end of the second wire and got 239.1H.... Yes Henries. Not mH or uH but Henries. I don't know if I could actually connect this toroid like this in a circuit and have it work this way but it would be really cool if it did. This does not work with ferrite core rods. I tried.
Here's the toroid I measured:
What is the core on this toroid?
What you just described sound so much like my air coils.
t3t4
Quote from: t3t4 on September 01, 2009, 12:59:44 AM
What is the core on this toroid?
What you just described sound so much like my air coils.
t3t4
I'm not sure. It's heavy like a ferrite core. Not plastic or anything light like that.
DonL
Well, chances are, that you just found the beginning to the end in either case. I too play with bi-filer coils, but I choose to use them where they can resonate most freely. Actually, I just wrap the coil around an empty beer bottle. Yeah, no kidding! But I do this in such a way as to make it adjustable. But that's just me...
Thanks,
t3t4
@ Don,
QuoteMy results from the 2 aluminum plates got worse when I unattached the wires from the pole and insulated them from touching the pole and even worse by separating the 2 wires from each other.
So my conclusion is that most of the mV I was getting came from the wires being attached to the pole and the wires being together even though insulataed from each other. I was using a standard 12/2 with ground house wire. The kind of wire that's in the walls of houses.
Now I'm moving on from using the pole and aluminum plates.
Sorry Don, I just got the email about this post. I do commend your efforts, but do please keep and utilize the pole! The aluminum plates work well under different circumstances, but the wire in the sky seems to work much better. I am having a hard time backing up what I have said. But rest assured, I will prove it!
What I would like to know is this: Why are you and jeanna having difficulty duplicating my results?
More pic's please, or video demonstration.
I know now from re-running my previous experiments, that it's not as easy as I once thought is was. But I still don't understand why none have matched me, let alone exceed my results. So in this case, please help me help you! I will do my best, as best I can do.
Thanks,
t3t4
@dllabarre
I apologize to ask but what kind of inductance meter (make/type) do you use that has a higher than 200Henry measuring range?
Because I suspect there is a wrongly calibrated meter...
I base this on seeing the photo of your toroidal coil and simply I am not aware of any toroidal core taken out from mass produced monitors etc that would have an extremely high permeability which would give Henry inductances with those number of turns.
In the past I also took some measurements on such bifilar coils either with toroidal or closed E cores, both in the some ten to some hundred uH and to some ten mH ranges for any one of the coils. And when I also connected the two coils in series as you did (i.e. measured between the beginning of the first coil and the end of the second coil, the other end and beginning was joined of course and left floating).
What I found was that such closely coupled bifilar coils gave a resultant inductance of roughly the four times of any single coil, so in case one coil from a bifilar has 26mH, then the two coils in series (joined as described) gave around 100mH or so (but definitely not in the Henry range).
Respectfully,
Gyula
Quote from: dllabarre on September 01, 2009, 12:25:12 AM
Can some one with an inductance meter and a bifilar toroid try this for me?
I was measuring some of the toroids I have taken out of devices like TVs and computer power supplies when I came across something strange.
First I measured the inductance when connected to the beginning and end of the first wire and got 36.8uH. Then the beginning and end of the second wire and got 36.6uH.
I'm always for trying something really strange just to see what happens.
I then measured connected to the beginning of the first and to the end of the second wire and got 239.1H.... Yes Henries. Not mH or uH but Henries. I don't know if I could actually connect this toroid like this in a circuit and have it work this way but it would be really cool if it did. This does not work with ferrite core rods. I tried.
Here's the toroid I measured:
gyulasun
Thank you for the links. However, the pics there showed the inductors to have three legs and mine only have two. Does that mean mine are just a smaller version, or for a different purpose? I know if I keep searching the net I will eventually come across the correct picture showing these same items I have described. Hopefully I will also learn how to use them.
DonL,
For some reason when you posted your picture of the toroid, it covered the words so I was not able to read what you were saying. I did eventually get to read it when gyulasun posted your quote, though. Are you using a laptop? Just wondering why the picture covered the words as I have seen that once before in one of these forums.
Quote from: gyulasun on September 01, 2009, 05:23:56 AM
@dllabarre
I apologize to ask but what kind of inductance meter (make/type) do you use that has a higher than 200Henry measuring range?
And when I also connected the two coils in series as you did (i.e. measured between the beginning of the first coil and the end of the second coil, the other end and beginning was joined of course and left floating).
What I found was that such closely coupled bifilar coils gave a resultant inductance of roughly the four times of any single coil, so in case one coil from a bifilar has 26mH, then the two coils in series (joined as described) gave around 100mH or so (but definitely not in the Henry range).
Respectfully,
Gyula
EXTECH 380193 - it works fine - i've double checked it with caps, resistors and inductors.
Yes I agree with you when I connected the bifilar wires together and measured them.
But I'm doing something that is very unorthodox here.
Do NOT connect the end of wire 1 to the beginning of wire 2. Just connect your meter to the beginning of wire 1 and to the end of wire 2. This shouldn't work well because the 2 wires are not connected but just try it.
DonL
@protonmom
I'm not using a laptop.
I've never seen the pictures cover the words.
Have you seen this with other postings or just mine?
Maybe I'm doing something different then everyone else.
Since last week, when I try to post, the posting window acts very strange jumping from the bottom to the top so I can't see what I'm typing unless I keep scrolling the input window down. Quit annoying but it is the way it is.
DonL
Quote from: t3t4 on September 01, 2009, 02:31:47 AM
@ Don,
What I would like to know is this: Why are you and jeanna having difficulty duplicating my results?
Thanks,
t3t4
I haven't used your circuit or any circuit yet. I just use a capacitor connected between the aerial and a ground rod. I'm focusing on what aerial is the best that is also cheap and easy to construct.
I'm moving to "wire suspended in the air" type of aerials.
DonL
Quote from: protonmom on September 01, 2009, 06:45:01 AM
gyulasun
Thank you for the links. However, the pics there showed the inductors to have three legs and mine only have two. Does that mean mine are just a smaller version, or for a different purpose? I know if I keep searching the net I will eventually come across the correct picture showing these same items I have described. Hopefully I will also learn how to use them.
Hi,
The third pin is an empty pin, no electrical connection is involved, only they use a more universal bobbin with three pins that is all.
All of such coils with a permanent magnet are meant for fine adjustment possibility for the coil's self-inductance, no other purpose. The current they should handle is at least from a few Amper up to 7-8 Amper, at 15.6kHz and higher (line frequency) the wire and core properties are chosen according to this requirement.
Here are some more links: http://ahtckelin.en.alibaba.com/product/244041047-209083000/Linearity_Inductor_Coil.html
http://www.litai.com/coils.htm
http://southsea.manufacturer.globalsources.com/si/6008800058425/pdtl/Choke-coil/1013510650/Choke-Coil.htm
rgds, Gyula
Hi Don,
It is good you mentioned you did not connect the end of coil 1 to the beginning of coil 2, thanks. For me this means that your otherwise excellent meter actually oscillates somewhere with the two coils that has a coupling of a distributed capacitance only, I think this is a false operational mode for your meter... and indicates that very high 200Henry+ self-inductance. You may agree here that is not a real value.
I have never tried testing bifilar coils with inductance meter when the two coils are not connected in any combination that has a measurable low value DC resistance i.e. wire resistances either in series or parallel. For your case I normally use a capacitance meter.
Tonight I will try to test this, though I have a meter able to measure up to 20 Henry only (Maxwell MX-25 304).
rgds, Gyula
Quote from: dllabarre on September 01, 2009, 08:08:22 AM
EXTECH 380193 - it works fine - i've double checked it with caps, resistors and inductors.
Yes I agree with you when I connected the bifilar wires together and measured them.
But I'm doing something that is very unorthodox here.
Do NOT connect the end of wire 1 to the beginning of wire 2. Just connect your meter to the beginning of wire 1 and to the end of wire 2. This shouldn't work well because the 2 wires are not connected but just try it.
DonL
Here is a circuit I was playing with last night.
I shorted the cap to discharge it.
Checked it with my digital meter and there was zero mV.
I left it on and this morning (8 hours later) when I connect my digital meter the reading went up to 2.2v then started to come down.
The meter is draining the potential so I have to make quick readings.
I need to get a mV analog meter again. My old one died.
Any recommendations for a good analog meter that can read mV?
Yes the positive side of the battery is not connected.
It seems to be pulling the energy from the negative side of the battery.
This doesn't work if I disconnect the battery completely.
Without the battery, the potential across the capacitor slowly goes to zero.
I need to try this with a ground rod instead of the battery and maybe use larger capacitor and inductor.
DonL
.
Quote from: t3t4 on August 31, 2009, 10:34:42 PM
I have a question...
Have any of you tried to marry the earth battery to the radiant energy receiver by using them in combination? If so, can you tell me, was it good or bad?
Thanks,
t3t4
@all,
I have an idea specific to my experience...
Take my steel/aluminum earth battery described elsewhere on Overunity(simple system) and add: To the positive, ungrounded end, an overhead wire, say, strung between two or more trees---if they're available nearby.
--Lee
@ dllabarre
Quote from: dllabarre on September 01, 2009, 09:12:14 AM
I need to get a mV analog meter again.
I think that an analog meter will drain the capacitor faster. I think most analog meters are less than 1 meg input impedance. I would suggest you use a digital meter with 100 meg input impedance. If you want to trade money for convenience you can find digital panel meters for about $10 with 100 meg input impedance. I may be wrong but it is something you should check.
@ dllabarre
Slayer007 was getting similar results with a similar circuit (see Joule thief thread). There seems to be something happening that is not well understood.
@xee2
Tesla or Moray or Gray or Bedini or someone like that, has made reference to being able to connect to a ground rod or the negative terminal of a battery to pull negative potential into a circuit.
This was the first time I tried to connect to the negative of a battery instead of a ground rod.
Its working....
DonL
@ dllabarre
What seems strangest to me is that the inductor is a short circuit at DC and therefore I would expect it to short out any voltage in the capacitor.
@ dllabarre
Just some speculation. When one side of the capacitor is charged negative, it forces electrons out of the opposite plate so that it will become positive. The electrons forced out of the positive plate of the capacitor create a current flow. If they flow through a resistor there will be a voltage drop across the resistor while the positive plate is being rid of some of its electrons. If this is true, your circuit may work better using a resistor instead of an inductor.
from t3t4QuoteI don't quite understand why you're not receiving the same results as I am. Even my first demonstration showed well over a volt, and I did it sloppy. So, could you show me what your doing please? I'd really like to see it. I have no doubt whatsoever, that with your current understanding, you can far exceed me. All I ask, is that you look at what you see, don't hit the books every time you have a question. Just take it all for what it is. I will help in every way that I can.
I am not sure if you were addressing me?
I am certainly aiming to get resonance. It is the reason I bought the LC meter... so I can know what the heck the L part is. I am glad too, because with all the centertapped bifilars, I was really having a confusing time.
@gyula,
I also found the same numeric relationship between the inductance of the single parts and the full bifilar winding.
That is,
When measuring one of the filamants alone, I get a figure that is roughly 1/4 the amount of the entire inductance.
So, you get double your money back so to speak when using a center tapped bifilar on a toroid.
Xee2 pointed out that this is because you are dealing with N
2turns rather than double.
I am not able to follow the reasoning on that formula yet, so I throw it out to you all for thoughts.
I have been watching prof lewin's reruns again and I have been looking at the 22-25 lectures, which are about LC and RC and RLC circuits. Now he is strapped with the 60 Hz but the interesting thing I caught today is that he shows how to back into resonance when the frequency is given.
In his case it is always about some cosine of something because it is about the wall 60 hz, but the point is that somewhere inside this is a way to find the L or C or both necessary to make the resonance sing from the air or the earth.
There are so many resonances that I wonder if we should pick one?
I see one high one at around 22khz.
The one at 2.4Mhz is a much lower amplitude, so maybe it is not the best to be aiming for.
As I have already said, I have not ever seen a wave at or around 7hz or the so called schuman resonance. So, My vote is against picking that one.
But who knows from what I learned today, if I raise the inductance I am aiming for a resonance that is lower than what I have at the moment.
I am wondering if I should look hard at the stubblefield coils I have made, and make a matched pair of a better LC amount.
I will be roofing my shed tomorrow. This ought to give my brain a break and some fresh air. I will check in in the evening.
I was very tempted to say galvanized when the tin man asked me if I wanted that or painted. I got dark green. BUT I now have a good source for a big galvanized panel I can stick up high if I want to do that in the future! :D
jeanna
Quote from: xee2 on September 01, 2009, 07:54:52 PM
@ dllabarre
What seems strangest to me is that the inductor is a short circuit at DC and therefore I would expect it to short out any voltage in the capacitor.
I would agree if the positive was connected also. Being only the negative is connected it performs differently.
Also, isn't the resistor going to want to use the current and drain the capacitor? With the inductor replaced with the resistor I don't get any charge in the capacitor.
I now removed the inductor leaving just the capacitor. The capacitor is charging all alone with just one lead of the capacitor connected to the negative side of a 9V battery.
DonL
@Jeanna
I use this resonance calculator.
It's nice because you can supply any 2 of the 3 variables and it calculates the 3rd. So I usually enter a capacitor value, and a frequency to see if the Henries are within my variable inductor. If it is then I just hook my variable inductor to my meter and adjust it to the correct value from the calculator.
It's also great for "what if" problem solving.
http://www.whatcircuits.com/lc-resonance-frequency-calculator/
DonL
Thanks DonL,
It makes me laugh (with delight).
I have sooo many coils with unknown flux values and most of them are also toroids...
I am sooo glad I bought that meter.
:D happy
PLUS I can actually know what the L is for a stubblefield which is an inductor with one copper and one iron wire separated by wet cloth and driven into the earth at about 18 inches high... And that is not even the part you are supposed to use.
I like Barrys coil gun site with sliders so you can move one thing and see what happens to the curve. And they are all air core so there is no fooling with unknown fluxes, but there just is no substitute for actually knowing what the thing in the ground is.
Did you ever work out that odd reading on that toroid of yours?
After the roof is done, I could wind a little toroid like that and see what kind of reading I get, if you have not found out yet. It sure would be an easy way to get lots of Henries if you think they are real.
jeanna
@ dllabarre
Quote from: dllabarre on September 01, 2009, 11:28:06 PM
I now removed the inductor leaving just the capacitor. The capacitor is charging all alone with just one lead of the capacitor connected to the negative side of a 9V battery.
Well that is simple enough. I hooked one end of a 0.47 uF capacitor to the negative terminal of a 9 volt battery. I will check the voltage tomorrow.
Quote from: xee2 on September 01, 2009, 07:20:37 PM
@ dllabarre
Slayer007 was getting similar results with a similar circuit (see Joule thief thread). There seems to be something happening that is not well understood.
Xee2:
Your statement quoted above is an example of one of the many reasons I have great respect for you. Even with all of your knowledge and electronics experience, you are still willing to keep an open mind about stuff that "is not well understood".
I have several friends that are electrical engineers or electronics technicians and, they "know" everything and there is no more room for learning. All of my experiments to them have just been "some form of anomaly caused by my screwing up something because the book says that is not possible."
I am glad you are with us on the forums and I just wanted to say that.
Bill
Quote from: jeanna on September 01, 2009, 11:58:43 PM
I am sooo glad I bought that meter.
Did you ever work out that odd reading on that toroid of yours?
After the roof is done, I could wind a little toroid like that and see what kind of reading I get, if you have not found out yet. It sure would be an easy way to get lots of Henries if you think they are real.
jeanna
My inductor/capacitance meter is second only to my volt meter.
Also test any capacitor you're going to use in a resonant circuit.
I've found many capacitors are a little off and that difference could be adjusted with the inductor being changed a little. This is where that resonant calculator comes in handy.
gyulasun was going to measure the inductance of a toroid to see what he gets. Probably won't know for sure if this turns out to be an easy way to get Henries until it's tested in a circuit. Our meters could be doing something "wierd". But you're welcome to test a bifilar wound toroid to see what your meter says. I only found this to work with toroids. Probably because the flux stays in the core of the toroid would be my guess at this point.
DonL
Quote from: dllabarre on September 01, 2009, 11:28:06 PM
I would agree if the positive was connected also. Being only the negative is connected it performs differently.
Also, isn't the resistor going to want to use the current and drain the capacitor? With the inductor replaced with the resistor I don't get any charge in the capacitor.
I now removed the inductor leaving just the capacitor. The capacitor is charging all alone with just one lead of the capacitor connected to the negative side of a 9V battery.
DonL
If your circuit is just a capacitor connected to a 9V battery it will charge the capacitor slowly.
If you add a 6 inch piece of solid insulated wire to the other side of the capacitor it charges faster.
And if you stand back and look at this picture you'll see the same setup as an aerial system... antenna to capacitor to ground (neg. battery term.). This is just a miniature aerial system. ;D
DonL
@DonL
I have checked my inductance meter with capacitors and a resistor
plugged into the L measurement ranges and was surprised a little.
The L measurement range is 0-2mH, 20mH, 200mH, 2H and 20H (Maxwell MX-25 304)
If I test a 1uF (non-electrolytic ERO MKT 250V) capacitor in the L ranges,
the display shows -0.127mH in the 0-2mH range
-OL in the 0-20mH range (OL=overload)
-6.1mH in the 0-200mH range
-0.061H in the 0-2H range
-0.61H in the 0-20H range
This 1uF capacitor measures 1.032uF in the normal 0-2uF C range.
If I test 0.1uF (non-electrolytic ERO MKT 250V) capacitor in the L ranges,
the display shows -OL up to the 0-200mH range and shows
-0.063H in the 0-2H range
-0.63H in the 0-20H range
This 0.1uF capacitor measures 96.2nF in the normal 0-200nF C range.
If I test a 1.6 kOhm 1W rated (metal film) resistor in the L ranges,
The display shows OL up to the 0-20mH range
2.2mH in the 0-200mH range
0.004H in the 0-2H range
0.000H in the 0-20H range
If I test this 1.6 kOhm resistor in the C ranges,
the display shows OL (instead of 0.00) in the 0-20nF range
1.3nF in the 0-200nF range
0.001uF in the 0-2uF range
0.00uF in the 0-20uF eange
00.0uF in the 0-200uF range
This resistor shows 1.608 kOhm in the normal 0-2 kOhm resistance measurement range.
So I consider all this as erratic behavior of instruments and close down this from my part.
rgds, Gyula
@gyula, thank you.
I'm try to set up a circuit to see what happens in real life.
DonL
Hi Jeanna,
I also think the 4 times as much inductance enhancement in case of bifilarly wound coils comes from the doubled number of turns (i.e. two times as long wire length). Look at this link
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/magnetic/indtor.html
where you can see the number of turns, N is squared in the nominator of the inductance formula so if you write 2N instead of N, the result is 4*(N squared) instead of (N squared). This is the explanation.
rgds, Gyula
Quote from: jeanna on September 01, 2009, 11:12:53 PM
@gyula,
I also found the same numeric relationship between the inductance of the single parts and the full bifilar winding.
That is,
When measuring one of the filamants alone, I get a figure that is roughly 1/4 the amount of the entire inductance.
So, you get double your money back so to speak when using a center tapped bifilar on a toroid.
Xee2 pointed out that this is because you are dealing with N2turns rather than double.
I am not able to follow the reasoning on that formula yet, so I throw it out to you all for thoughts.
Quote from: dllabarre on September 02, 2009, 10:08:16 AM
@gyula, thank you.
I'm try to set up a circuit to see what happens in real life.
DonL
Ok, but do not expect to find a real 200+ Henry inductance between the beginning and the other end, what you will find is some 10-30pF capacitance between those two wires... what you may wish to check first in the capacitor measurement range lol :)
rgds, Gyula
deleted in afterthought
@ DonL,
QuoteProbably won't know for sure if this turns out to be an easy way to get Henries until it's tested in a circuit. Our meters could be doing something "wierd". But you're welcome to test a bifilar wound toroid to see what your meter says. I only found this to work with toroids. Probably because the flux stays in the core of the toroid would be my guess at this point.
I don't believe anyone has mentioned yet, how exactly does a meter measure inductance? It sends out some AC voltage at a certain frequency, usually 1000HZ, but some meters are adjustable. If memory serves me well here, knowing the frequency and the voltage, you just have to find the resistance to calculate inductance. I think that's how the meter works, or something along those lines. But it does use a wave and voltage to extrapolate inductance. You can also use a computer based sound card.
Anyway, remember when I said that you may have found the beginning of the end. Well I meant it, and I hope you keep playing around with what you discovered. I have seen the same things, but I wasn't looking for inductance, you just found it in a different way. Point is, think about the Tesla coil "also" when you think about bi-filler coils.
QuoteAnd if you stand back and look at this picture you'll see the same setup as an aerial system... antenna to capacitor to ground (neg. battery term.). This is just a miniature aerial system. ;D
Yes sir, but thanks to all of you running these tests and talking about ideas, I'm beginning to see the aerial is almost irrelevant for extracting real usable power. The circuit is the aerial, or at least it can be.
QuoteI'm try to set up a circuit to see what happens in real life.
So am I, but something very very different. I'd just love to try and explain to you all what I'm talking about, but I can't. I'm not sure I understand myself, I can just kinda see it all working in my head. I'm not thinking electrically at all, but rather magnetically and mechanically, if that makes any sense.
t3t4
@ dllabarre
Quote from: xee2 on September 02, 2009, 12:47:55 AM
@ dllabarre
Well that is simple enough. I hooked one end of a 0.47 uF capacitor to the negative terminal of a 9 volt battery. I will check the voltage tomorrow.
After 12 hours I measured the capacitor while it was still attached to battery and it was about 0.10 volts. When I disconnected the capacitor from the battery and remeasured it the voltage was down to my voltmeter noise level of about 0.02 volts. I will try again with the antenna wire but that will have to wait because I will be using the 9 volts battery for some other things today.
Ok, well today was a good day so far. I have been able to prove some of what I was thinking today, but what is most impressive to me is that I have never been able to do it at this altitude. I now realize (and hopefully understand) that altitude will only give you voltage, but not amperage. However, it's very easy to make one match the other and then to multiply it without ever depleting the source.
Keep playing with those coils. Where I ended before was basically an aerial and two tank circuits which does make for a kick butt battery charger. But this is different. I'm seeing it differently now! What I hope to show soon is something else entirely. But so can you. I said before, inductance inductance inductance, believe that! There are some really cool things going on, but I'm off to retrieve my scope. I need to examine this in much greater detail.
Please forgive my enthusiasm. :o
Thanks,
t3t4
@ dllabarre
I connected the following circuit with the capacitor voltage reading initially at 0 volts. As soon as the circuit was connected the voltage began to rise at a steady rate until it reached about -44 millivolts after about 15 minutes. Then it just bounced around going plus and minus about 5 mv. The way it just steadily climbed to 44 mv was impressive. Perhaps with a longer antenna wire the voltage would go higher. I shorted the capacitor and it again climbed steadily to -42 mv.
Using a 9 volt battery the voltage climbed to +8 mv and bounced around a little.
I saw similar results.
Thank you for checking.
BTW. What software do you use to create your schematic images?
DonL
Seems to me using a multi strand cable with shielding would increase the capacitance of the wire. Using one wire for the positive and the rest would be tied together for the negative. More Q could be upped if the positive wire charges all the negative wires. Current in a capacitor is proportional to the rate of change of voltage across a capacitor. When the voltage goes up current is flowing into the capacitor. When the voltage goes down current flows out of the capacitor. Fast voltage changes should increase the current. Pulsing the voltage on this circuit in this manner should up the current. Just an idea to try.
I am thrilled you guys/gals are playing with this, but there is something more to it all. Depending on how you see things verses what you do, you will find difference in either case. Point is, the bifilar coil has some rather unique properties depending on how it's wired together within a circuit.
For example: I'm currently working heavily with bifilar coils, and for good reason. Point is: you can wire the coils in such a way as to cause or create an amplification affect. This is really cool, and in My opinion, this is what Tesla saw in his time, but more then this which I won't get into here. I don't remember who it was that had two plates in the sky, but whomever you are, you are the one that got me thinking in this direction, and the rest contributed to making me think in this circle.... You can be "both" positive and negative! But you can do it all in one system while not tied to a physical ground, although you can be. I think I have explained this before, so I won't go into greater detail.
But when you can get a Tesla "PANCAKE" coil to resonate being bifilar wound, you will find if you play with it, that the affects multiply, and they do so with frequency. It's were I ended before, but not like this. In this case, I'm simply adding coil upon coil, to use the magnetic field without ever touching the source, and therefor never depleting the source. I conclude that I "could" build as much power as required based upon needs, and I could do this by adding coils.This is what I see from my test results. It's completely additive with no subtraction. So yes, that's a very cool thing! Just think of a transformer without it's core, then it should all make sense.
Are any of you playing with bifilar coils aside from testing inductance? I know those of you that have built the jouel thief have built the basic coil. But I think it should be an air coil, and also sandwiched between other coils. At least that is what my test results can show.
My only question to you all is this; What do you see? You see a massive boost with the jouel thief, but why? It's the coil that makes the day, not the circuit.
But that's just my $0.02 worth.
Thank you,
t3t4
Hello,
I brand new here and interested in the earth battery concept. I'll begin by admitting that I am not an electrical person. I do have 7 years experience in the battery industry however.
I did some experimenting last weekend using 1ft x 1"diameter copper pipe and 8in x .125"diameter zinc nails. Various placements tried. Copper pipe placed 10" into ground. Zinc nails placed from 1ft away down to 1in away. Voltages pretty steady at about 0.9VDC. Amperages in the .005 - .010 range. At closest spacing amps initially higher but did fall off rapidly from what I am assuming is a load coming from my analog multimeter. At more distant spacing, amps were lower but the falling off was less and total sustained amps was greater.
I also placed nails inside the dirt within copper pipe. Worked even better.
(note: all initial experimentation done on extremely wet ground. I have a natural spring just below ground level in a portion of my property. This area really never dries out even during dry summer months so I figured it would be a good location to start with)
I then drove a copper pipe 4ft into the ground, and also a 4ft galvanized iron pipe into the ground. Spacing was only 1ft apart. Various depths of each were used. Voltages = 0.9 to 0.95VDC. Amperages = .020 sustained (again w/ whatever load my meter creating).
I then went back to my 12" copper pipe and used a 1inch diameter galvanized steel pipe, only this time I spaced 30ft apart. This was an interesting one because I still had slightly less than a volt but the amperage was nearly equal to what I had when spaced only 1ft apart.
OK, being new to all of this I have millions of questions.
1) Is this really just a weak chemical battery here? I can make batteries in mason jars using water electrolytes that seem to perform in similar fashion.
2) I have read the Stubblefield patent and would like to build one of these.
a. I have a 10.5" steel cap screw w/ 0.5" diameter.
b. I am not sure what AWG wire sizes to use for copper or iron.
c. Because the copper is insulated and only iron core + wire exposed,
this does not seem like a standard battery having electro-chemical
potentials. Is this right?
d. Iron core seems magnetized. Thus I would assume a current in the
copper windings. Is this right?
e. I am familiar with copper windings moving through a magnetic field and
thus moving electrons, how does this cell move electrons while remaining
stationary?
f. I need help in understanding the possible uses of secondary coil. This coil
looks like it uses a thinner AWG copper wire than primary coil copper/iron.
I am assuming that this wire is of the insulated variety.
g. Patent states that insulated iron wire may be used. What impact does this
have on performance.
3) Has anyone tried making a Diekmann configuration? In reading about it, I am reminded of the spiral wound batteries I used to make. We did them in a Mercuric Oxide-Cadmium chemistry. Many lithium batteries like 2/3A up to AA size use the same construction.The extremely high surface area really helped discharge performance under heavy loads.
I have seen information on copper/aluminum variations that are deemed earth batteries. They remind me of capacitors. It would seem that they could hold a lot of energy. Do they really utilize underground energy or are they just electrolytic/electro-potential batteries?
My main interest is constructing something that catches naturally occuring energy in the ground and uses it for something useful. Like lots of LED lights! I have no idea what the best earth system is for this sort of thing, or even how to build one correctly. Oxidation based systems not really what I am looking for... Earth currents yes!
I have setup a new pipe scheme based on trees being better. I happen to have a 180ft line of Blue Spruce Trees running north-south on my property. The trees are only small, perhaps 4ft high right now. There are 20 of them. My copper pipe is to the north directly under one of these trees. My galvanized pipe is to the south right under this tree. Both pipes 1" diameter and only 1ft deep. I have to get 200ft of wire and will report any measurements I get from this. Soil through this stretch = hard red clay.
On a side note, in reading Bedini information, there appeared to be a plant growth side effect to these underground energy systems. I have come accross this before and have seen people build strange collectors that get buried into ground. I used to think it was hocus pocus but in reading about earth batteries and underground energy, it looks like the real deal, especially with a non-agricultural person like Bedini making note of it. I am very-very interested in this because making my pastures recover faster after cattle grazing would greatly help my operation.
Any and all help/education much appreciated!!!!!
On another side note (off topic) has anyone investigated using capacitors as an aid to wind generator operation at super low wind speeds? I know there isn't a whole lot of energy possible at low wind velocities (in smaller generaltors) but something is better than nothing!
Quote from: MW383 on September 29, 2009, 11:48:45 AM
Hello,
... I do have 7 years experience in the battery industry however.
Welcome MW383,
Your battery experience will be very helpful here, I expect.
Quote...
OK, being new to all of this I have millions of questions.
1) Is this really just a weak chemical battery here? I can make batteries in mason jars using water electrolytes that seem to perform in similar fashion.
These don't seem to lose anything over time as the mason jar equivalent always does.
We used copper for both electrodes and found a voltage which changed daily too.
I think all of us think this is about magnetic earth currents.
Quote2) I have read the Stubblefield patent and would like to build one of these.
a. I have a 10.5" steel cap screw w/ 0.5" diameter.
b. I am not sure what AWG wire sizes to use for copper or iron.
c. Because the copper is insulated and only iron core + wire exposed,
this does not seem like a standard battery having electro-chemical
potentials. Is this right?
We experimented with all these things too and never found much difference that we could quantify.
The copper and iron are insulated from each other.
I think NS thought there was an advantage in leaving the iron uncovered.
Quoted. Iron core seems magnetized. Thus I would assume a current in the
copper windings. Is this right?
e. I am familiar with copper windings moving through a magnetic field and
thus moving electrons, how does this cell move electrons while remaining
stationary?
It is the changing magnetic currents that cause the electricity to flow. That is the theory. That is happening all the time around the earth. You just need to find the right place or something...
This item s very complex induction coil and magnetic radio receiver and also a tiny bit a galvanic battery.
NS was forced by the patent office to call this a battery when he really wanted to call it an inductor and a couple of other things.
Quotef. I need help in understanding the possible uses of secondary coil. This coil
looks like it uses a thinner AWG copper wire than primary coil copper/iron.
I am assuming that this wire is of the insulated variety.
I believe I am still the only person to get any result from a secondary and I did not get it from the earth. I stuck a NS generator into a joule thief circuit and also held one up near to a joule thief and in both cases I got voltage off the secondary.
You need a LOT of mag wire to make the secondary. I stuck a spool of red mag wire from radio shack around the one in the joule thief circuit and got fair results.
Quote.....
My main interest is constructing something that catches naturally occurring energy in the ground and uses it for something useful. Like lots of LED lights! I have no idea what the best earth system is for this sort of thing, or even how to build one correctly. Oxidation based systems not really what I am looking for... Earth currents yes!
You have a lot of company here.
...
wind generators have their own area here. I bet you will get more expert answers by asking there.
jeanna
jeanna,
thank you very much for your kind reply. i have been studying this patent for a bit now and make the following observations.
1) assuming you start each copper and iron wiring using terminals marked as 10 on patent, you would make your first layer downward (in picture), 2nd layer wound upward, 3rd layer back downward, 4th layer back upward, and 5th layer back down again. Thus the 5 and 6 terminals would be on the opposite side of the coil from terminals 10. The diagram not clear in exactly how 5 and 6 are brought back up to same side as the 10's. Does this mean anything? I do not know.
2) diagram shows alternating copper and iron winding pattern within a layer. diagram also shows that all coppers and all irons line up through subsequent layers.
text says to wind this alternating way in each coil or layer. what is coil? what is layer? earlier in the description of item 4; coil body compactly formed by closely wound coils. what I am getting at here is that it may be useful to wind the multi-layerd coils so that not only do they alternate copper-iron within a coil of same layer BUT ALSO alternating copper-iron between the layers themsleves.
i see two benefits for this. 1=since this is a totally wet cell (assuming insulation on copper wire was water permeable cotton - then electrochemically it is better to have more direct electrolytic pathways between the anode and cathode. by alternating copper-iron in each direction this could be achieved. the diagram does not show this. 2=i read somewhere that when winding copper coils, it is sometimes useful to wild wind. this 2 directional plan would somewhat accomplish this.
3) this is a real sneaky design in that the primary coils (that seem to operate as an electromagent in relation to iron core), and also the voltaic couple generating the required current. So one set of wire length does both functions thus keeping total resistance at a minimal. looking at other earth batteries - they cannot generate current AND create an electromagnetic field at the same time thus making SB battery sneaky.
4) from a battery perspective, i would consider this a high surface area design. higher surface areas (anode and cathode) will improve battery's current performance. So whatever Iron and Copper produce in voltage (i measure 0.8 on simple constructions), amperage should be real good in the SB.
5) it is uncertain what galvonic activity takes place between copper wires and the central iron core. i would expect there to be some voltage/current between iron core and either copper lead 5 or copper lead 10.
6) being able to connect 5 and 6 to not only flow current but to also energize magnetic field is decidedly convenient. (one switch only)
7) i am assuming that a commonly available wire guage at the time is about equivelent to our modern AWG14 (.064" diameter). if this is true and there is some accuracy in drawing scale of figure 3, then both copper and iron wires are of the same guage.
5) again, assuming accuracy of drawing scale in figure 3, then iron core is about 3 times the thickness of primary coil wires. that would only be 0.18" diameter for the iron core. this is pretty damn small and would make wrapping 14ga wire a real chore.
i am not certain what relationships exist between magnetic field created by coil and the dimensions of the iron core. i am assuming that the more magnetic the core gets, the better. can you confirm?
6) i wonder about the iron core itself. a bolt is nice and convenient but would using smaller iron rods bundled together be more useful? Such rods would each be coated thus electrically isolating them from one another. i only mention this because many motor projects I have seen that employ coils around iron, all seem to use the many rods approach.
7) in reading this forum, it seems like the 2nd coil is inductively activated. So collapse of the primary coil inductively transfers energy to the secondary coil. About the only way for this to work is to cycle primary coil on and off. i looked at various antique medical patents and there is this same induction coil scheme present (only its primary coil is externally powered). in fact, i wonder if they really differ in the modern day. anyway, the old devices simply had a hand turned mechanism that opened/broke the contacts of the primary coil. so how did Stubblefield do this? was it an above ground device of sorts.
i wonder if something could be construced by using a modern magnetic reed switch. they are dandy little devices i have used in commercial appliance designs i have done. basically if you get them near a magnetic field the contacts close. pull the magnetic field away and the contacts open. they are rated to jillions of cycles so would last a long time...
or, is there some electronic oscillating type circuit that would do the same thing? I suppose it would have to be tuned to the timing required to properly energize the SB primary coil.
8) in constructing crude electromagnets at my desk using 1.5V alkaline cells to power up a coil, battery achieved great heat due to an essential dead short. i must admit that I never guessed an AA battery powering a tightly wound copper coil over 12" x .500" iron core would have created that much magnetism.
i wonder if the SB battery gets warm during its cyclic operation. if so, then buried in the ground it may have enough heat to avoid freezing of its electrolyte. this is just a guess on my part. this somewhat dependent on what wire guages actually are. super thin stuff I would expect to get hotter than heavy guage materials. this is just another guess.
------------------------------
so at this point i am very intrigued by this battery. it would appear it is exactly like claimed, a long life self regenerating induction coil. i would very much like to build one and would appreciate any input you may have in those regards. wire guages and iron core diameter are my biggest unknowns. once the voltage/current portion of this device working it should be possible to optimize iron core design thus optimizing electromagnetic field. if a set strength and dimensioned electromagnetic field exists, then optimizing secondary coil properties (at least physical size limitations in diameter) should be possible.
thanks again !!!!
i have attached coil configuring spreadsheet i found. maybe it could be useful to the cause.
Quote from: MW383 on October 01, 2009, 04:51:03 PM
i have been studying this patent for a bit now and make the following observations.
1) assuming you start each copper and iron wiring using terminals marked as 10 on patent, you would make your first layer downward (in picture), 2nd layer wound upward, 3rd layer back downward, 4th layer back upward, and 5th layer back down again. Thus the 5 and 6 terminals would be on the opposite side of the coil from terminals 10. The diagram not clear in exactly how 5 and 6 are brought back up to same side as the 10's. Does this mean anything? I do not know.
The patent refers to the pic but the pic cannot be correct. I just made 6 layers in mine so the 5,6 ends and the 10 ends were near each other. BTW we called the ends 5,6 and the beginnings the 10's.
Quote...... what I am getting at here is that it may be useful to wind the multi-layerd coils so that not only do they alternate copper-iron within a coil of same layer BUT ALSO alternating copper-iron between the layers themsleves.
Give it a try.
It is not so easy to wrap the cloth and wind the wire and control getting the wires in an alternating way, but if you are up to it, please try.
I did a lot of these and the only one I was able to control the placement on was the one without galvanic properties. It was telephone copper. It works very well as a joule thief coil bye the way.
I personally believe that NStubblefield (NS) made a kind of joule thief circuit. I believe he used a spark gap inside a silver ball. Others have disagreed. In fact not one of us ever got any results.
I believe I am the closest with the joule thief, but the battery in the ground is only giving 50mv and nothing from the secondary.
The fact is I have never made one with enough secondary wire.
I had 360 turns of both copper and iron wire- combined. I never had enough length of mag wire to step it up.
This research is still going on and I am very glad to have you with us!
Quote...they cannot generate current AND create an electromagnetic field at the same time thus making SB battery sneaky.
yes,
very clever and
very novel!
Quote...amperage should be real good in the SB.
We never found that to be true.
It is a lousy galvanic battery.
It may be that it is not a battery at all.
The patent office would not grant his patent unless he claimed galvanic properties, and I do not know if there was more than just a touch to start the induction coil going.
Quote..
6) being able to connect 5 and 6 to not only flow current but to also energize magnetic field is decidedly convenient. (one switch only)
Yes, I kind of see it looking like a transistor.
7) i am assuming that a commonly available wire guage at the time is about equivelent to our modern AWG14 (.064" diameter). if this is true and there is some accuracy in drawing scale of figure 3, then both copper and iron wires are of the same guage.
Quote5) again, assuming accuracy of drawing scale in figure 3, then iron core is about 3 times the thickness of primary coil wires. that would only be 0.18" diameter for the iron core. this is pretty damn small and would make wrapping 14ga wire a real chore.
yup, it is.
And 19 gauge iron wire which is what my hardware store had is very stiff and very hard to manipulate.
Quotei am not certain what relationships exist between magnetic field created by coil and the dimensions of the iron core. i am assuming that the more magnetic the core gets, the better. can you confirm?
I cannot, but I do agree with you.
He wanted his neighbors to be able to make these with anything on hand and he used a carriage bolt. I am not sure the diameter matters much, except it gets thick really fast with many layers of wire and cloth.
I used silk on some of mine and they remain the best ones.
Quote
7) in reading this forum, it seems like the 2nd coil is inductively activated. So collapse of the primary coil inductively transfers energy to the secondary coil. About the only way for this to work is to cycle primary coil on and off....so how did Stubblefield do this? was it an above ground device of sorts.
I have been looking at 2 NS coils separated by 30 feet. I see a lot of pulsing activity coming across the wires as seen through a scope. None is higher than 100mv on my property, but it is free and comes from the magnetic field of the earth.
That field may have been stronger 150 years ago.
....
You can try a reed switch, but I was seeing pulses at 2.4-2.5Mhz in the ground. I think using that is what it was about.
He used the words Normal make and break. We do not know much about that. I noticed in a lecture given by Tesla in 1892 that he said, "take an ordinary induction coil..." This means that it was a commonly used device. We no longer use this in the common way.
I welcome your input.
Quote8) in constructing crude electromagnets at my desk using 1.5V alkaline cells to power up a coil, battery achieved great heat due to an essential dead short. i must admit that I never guessed an AA battery powering a tightly wound copper coil over 12" x .500" iron core would have created that much magnetism.
Nice.
I found a lot of altered compass activity after it was wound.
...
I never noticed any heat.
He was said to have heated his home from an invention of his and maybe there is a way to do that.
------------------------------
Go ahead and build one or 2.
We never had the answers to gauge.
I got my best results with annealed black wire and copper wire which I covered in silk. The silk is very thin and this may be a good reason for its use, but cotton is easy to get. I recommend thin cotton.
Protonmom used a fabric used for lining clothing and may be just fine.
Please make a few and take pix and report your results.
thank you,
jeanna
I agree with Jeanna. Try some and see. I never attempted a secondary. I did manage to get almost 1/2 amp out of my larger one but, in the real scheme of things, it was still a very small coil.
I think Jeanna is also correct about the amount of wire on a secondary. I think he used a bunch. Check out the work Kapanadze has been doing with his replications where he uses a spark gap, inductors, Tesla and Stubblefield to get over 100kw from the earth.
Jeanna was always curious back in those days about the term "make and break" and, as she has said, we now use a transistor to do that but back then, a spark gap was a simple make and break system and I agree that this was what NS meant. Kapanadze uses one to great effect. Watch the videos on that topic and see what can be done. He can run a house from his set-up easily.
As Jeanna said, nice to have your input.
Bill
MW383....Welcome! I am so glad to see another NS EB maker. I hope you will continue to research Stubblefield's work and not get sidetracked, (which is very easy to do). I have still not buried my latest EB as I have not wound a secondary on it yet. As soon as I do I intend to experiment with it until I succeed. (I hope, I hope) I agree with Jeanna that Nathan must have used some kind of spark inside a silver ball. If you look at his pictures you will always see this "ball thing on a stick". (for lack of better words)
I wish someone, somewhere, would find one of his earth batteries that someone stuck up in a loft of a barn or somewhere like that, and would post pictures of it, inside and out. That might be the only way we ever learn the truth, unless someone gets lucky and "discovers" what Nathan did. After all, we all have brains (some more, some less) and just maybe someone will hit on the same idea that Nathan did so long ago. Perhaps that will be YOU.
Anyway, Welcome to the group.
Thank you all for the very nice welcome here. I was up at 4am this morning and had some time to further contemplate this system. I have so many questions so the only way to start answering them and to gain experience with this baby was to construct one and start playing with it. So I made a simple desktop unit of single layer coil design; no secondary coil just yet. For the sake of humor, I'll call it the "mini-Nate"
1 1/2" OD iron pipe nipple. (has about 1/4" ID) x 5.5" long
2 16ga copper wire. 27 turns. coil length = 3.5"
3 16ga iron wire. 24 turns. coil length = 3.0"
4 single layer coil only
5 paper towel wrapped around iron core
6 copper wire applied 1st with very slight gap between winds.
7 paper towel added over copper winding
8 iron wire applied over outer paper towel such that its coils fit neatly side by side with
copper coils. paper towel over copper trick worked great
9 being that this is a single layer coil, i just ran each end wire back up to be on same
side as others. so i essentially have #5 copper, #6 iron, #10 copper, and #10 iron
wires exiting the cell
10 checked continuity between coils = none , so nothing shorted out
11 placed in 16oz jar and filled with tap water
My approach is simple. I want to get experienced with the copper iron electrochemistry and with this particular primary coil / battery construction. By breaking entire design down into fundamental pieces, hopefully I can learn about how each works.
I will be testing this afternoon and posting whatever results / conclusions I come up with. For starters I will be measuring everything in a no current scenerio. All measurements to be taken with standard Fluke 77 multimeter. I will have to look in its manual to determine what impedance this will place on the battery. I will report whatever this is with my test results. I'll also post some pictures of this little squirt.
Time for some lunch and then time for some testing!
I don't think the paper towel approach will work. The EB needs to be in a moist environment, and we all know what happens to paper towels when they get wet. You are going to have a major short. You should use the cotton or silk as per instructions. Hope you don't have a lot of re-winding to do, but if so, then join the club. We have all torn apart our "babies" to start anew. But I reallly must stress, I think you should re-think the paper towels. Do you have an old cotton sheet, or some silk shirt that has seen better days? Could you not try that instead? Be sure to cut the material into strips for easy winding.
Or just do what I did (several others too) and get cotton string about the same diameter as your wire and wind that in between the copper and the iron wires. You can actually wind it first, and then add the string by pulling it tight and it will force itself into the slots between the wires. Saves a lot of time and does not short out.
Bill
OK built the little prototype described above. it did have paper towel. i had built before i read the new posts! oops. Anyway the unit went together quickly and without issues.
open current voltages various places on the cell. (all values = DC)
5 to 6 0.495V 1.75mA after 1 minute
10 to 10 0.495V 1.60mA after 1 minute
5 to core 0.195V 0.23mA after 1 minute
6 to core 0.297V 0.46ma after 1 minute
So not a real high performing device but everything nice and steady. I think that after some light discharge conditioning of the cell, it should possible perform a little bit better.
I connected 5 and 6 to check and see what kind of electromagnetic field i might have.... nothing discernable but my detection methods pretty bad. I'll try holding a compass near the unit and see if I can deflect its needle with the field. I have my doubts though, there just isn't enough current here to do much. So I'm thinking that the cell is too small and underpowered with just a single coil of these meager dimensions.
What voltages are you guys getting out of your similar iron-copper systems?
....here is something interesting. i went back to cell and measured 5-6 for the hell of it. cell now reads steady .526 VDC. Since cell had plenty of time to presoak the 1st time, it is looking like my little multimeter load did some conditioning for me. Either that or the shorting of 5 and 6...I'll condition for longer periods and see what happens to my readings.
So this is what I have been up to today. If I am still thinking clearly, a strong primary field is what we need here for good saturation of secondary coil during collapse of primary.
The patent clearly says useful voltage possible with primary coil... So I will probably rebuild this little Nate into a multi-coil system (1 coil added at a time to see effects). Volts will probably remain low in this electrode set but more amperage could certianly be had with larger coil.
This is a neat little battery. Somehow, someway I want to get up to snuff in order to create a useful magnetic field. step 2 = optimize secondary coil. step 3 = cycle the primary coil really fast and get steady output of secondary coil.
I'll keep experimenting and also posting.
I charged the mini-Nate via 1.5V AA alkaline between posts 5 and 6. I did this for about 10 minutes. Seeing some slight bubbling on both copper and iron wires. This is good. Basically I am trying to burn off any exterior wire impurities. I am also trying to establish some electron flow. The alkaline battery took it all in stride as did mini-Nate.
after charge voltage betwen 5 and 6 was 0.676, amperage was 3.00mA after about a minute of small load multimeter inducing. Going back to check volts showed 0.630 and climbing.
i think i will give this a heavier charge and see what happens. 2*AA cells in series.
I am in process on another charging operation. I thought about using 2*AA cells in series but discovered that it was easier to just prop a 9 volt alkaline upside down on my 5 and 6 leads.
Voltage is measuring 7.5 during this operation. Amperage = ??? (maxes out 300mA scale and does not register on the 10A scale. My analog meter at home so I cannot say what issue with Fluke is at the moment.
There is more activity in the form of bubbles on coil wires now. This is a very robust battery because of near indestructible electrode materials (solid wire). My little overcharging operations do not phase it. If anything, the mini-Nate is experiencing a good preconditioning that was much needed because the iron pipe I used had surface rust, the iron wire is of the dark annealed variety which in my mind tells me has been treated with very high heat. Both copper and iron wire also further contaminated by oils from my fingers when I assembled this thing. Hence my desire to burn through all of this crap. When I worked in the battery industry all materials were 100% clean at assembly.
I'll let this go another hour or so and then disconnect the 9v and discharge the Nate back down to its normal voltage which should be near 0.78 (-.44 Fe : +.34 Cu)
I'm thinking that a copper aluminum chemistry may be much better than this one. (-1.67 Al : +.34 Cu should yeild voltages of 2V) aluminum wire not that hard to find and still fits with this style cell construction. Magnesium wire would be even better.
OK charge up #2 over. Voltage 0.87 but this is artificial, let me discharge it a little - allow it to recover from this and see what voltage really recovers to..... mA starts at 25.0 on attachment of meter (again this is artificial)...falling....falling..... still at about 5.5mA after 5 minutes with the multimeter attached. It certainly has more staying power now. OK where is voltage? .739 so not too far off theoretical. After repeated discharge cycles I am holding .740 volts with 4.5mA after a minute of multimeter load. So this is certainly better than what I started with.
It is also about all I am going to get out of this baby. I do not think any more conditioning will help it. That's ok, I am having fun with this crude little copper-iron cell.
I recommend that others with these batteries perform this same preconditioning. If anything, it will show you what true potentials of your batteries are without the negative distortions of electrode surface problems. I would also imagine this could be sped up by use of a weak acid such as vinegar. Since I am doing this all at work in a cubicle, I had no access to vinegar. On a side note, back during my battery career, we used to regularly condition mercuric oxide cadmium batteries that had sat around static for any length of time. In that case oxide films collected on the barriers between the electrodes thus showing crappy cell performance. After a short discharge beating those cells were back to their normal selves.
According to an earlier report by Bill, vinegar will short out the cell.
I also agree that there is a magnetic quality involved with the NS cell.
You may want to try pulsing the cell in incrementally to see how it interacts with the earth's pulse.
I wonder if the magnetism of the iron wires provide amperage, and the copper carrying the voltage.
Your winding idea along with pmom's cotton sheet contribution is the perfect way to copy the specs of NS.
Great to have you here btw.
Regards...
MW383,
Those are very interesting things you did .
I had a single layer and tested it with each layer added.
To my chagrin the voltsNamps went down with the additional layers.
I think if you actually change something from the patent, please do NOT change the annealed wire.
The good NS coils of mine are all made with that wire. I think because it is soft iron, it can perform.
If you can find a soft core, (rebar, perhaps) I expect you will get even better results.
Not in the primary, however. I think you are getting what I expect a good version of this will give you.
Bye the way, I found your paper towel method worked on 6 layers when I used a thin cotton cloth.
I think it is a better method than some (wrapping the wire as you turn it) because there will never be a short.
(I would quote the source for the idea, but I forget who suggested it.)
In the end, you want a secondary and I am convinced that you want to stick the thing into the ground so that the coil is about 6-18 inches above the surface.
And you will want some of the wires to stick up into the air, I think.
The pulses originate from the ground. I have been watching them.
It is possible that there is a spark that discharges the coil and causes a collapse, but I have been watching the waves.
(I have also been watching the waves from just 2 probes in the ground.)
They are greatly enhanced from the plain probes in the ground, but on any given day, the frequency is identical however the peak voltage coming off the NS primary coil is much much higher. (Most of my posts with scope pix about this are on the datalogging or bifilar threads)
The earth currents are pulsed dc not steady dc, and this is something we have only begun to explore.
I just ran into the identical problem with my extended joule thief.
I have a given frequency and I am trying to raise the volts.
Adding more turns does not do it. ... but something will.
thank you,
jeanna
What is the latest diagrams or schematic including explanations available so I have something to chew on?
I use to make Earth Capacitors when I was a kid, is that the same? Is this an attempt at re-inventing the battery? the Earth battery has been around for over a hundred years now. telegraphers used them all the time way back when.
MW383... If Jeanna used the paper towel method, and it worked for her, then by all means go ahead with it. I just could not see it working, but Jeanna has a lot more experience with the EB than I. I have been wrong before. If it works I would be very interested in knowing about it.
By the way, it never dawned on me that the oils on our hands would have any effect, but it does make sense. However, something tells me that Nathan Stubblefield never bothered about it...or, maybe I am wrong again.
Hello On the Cutting Edge. Welcome to our group. That is one long name. Got a nickname we can use?
The best thing to do if you and MW383 are serious about making the EB, is to go back and read ALL the posts in ALL the forums that deal with it. Read every word, and TAKE NOTES! I had to read it all a couple of times, and I am still learning a lot. Most of your answers will be found that way, but when the occasional question does come up where you cannot find the answers in the posts, you can usually bet someone in the forum will come to your rescue. Mark my words, though...if you go back and read it all... you will find a lot of information...and you will be glad you did read it.
I actually know quite a bit about batteries, I have two years of chemistry that's pretty helpful.
why not try something like this.
make sure your Flouride tooth paste doesn't have sodium already in the ingredient. the result is a sodium Flouride at the end of the reaction along with any stannic which will be Tin Salts.
But how is that battery tapping into the telluric currents of the earth? This is where the real power is. Over 100 kw.
Bill
Quote from: protonmom on October 02, 2009, 07:36:55 PM
MW383... If Jeanna used the paper towel method, and it worked for her, then by all means go ahead with it....
Don't get me wrong ..It was the method...not the paper.
I used sack cloth which was a cheap and porous cotton.
I wrapped the core then put down a layer of wire spaced a little then another layer of cloth then the other wire.
The turn around at the bottom was a little tricky and I ended up sewing a few stitches to keep the wires separate from each other. This was easy enough since the needle was already threaded cuz I had sewn the cloth around the previous layer. It worked well and went much faster than wrapping strips around the copper.
@onthecutting edge,
Welcome to you.
How great to have another experienced earth probe experimenter with us.
You probably want to read the thread.
This thread started with probes in the ground which is perhaps similar to what you did as a kid, however we learned (the hard way) that we never introduced anything else into the earth.
Later this thread progressed to be a Nathan Stubblefield replication thread.
NS made an induction coil that somehow worked on the changing magnetic field of the earth and he produced useful electricity from it.
I am convinced that the earth delivers a fluctuating magnetic pulse, because I have seen it with my scope.
A very little dc voltage is available by putting a pair of probes into the ground.
A very little dc voltage is available by using different metals for the wires.
I am making an effort to use both of these elements to produce some useful power.
Bill has been able to use mostly dc ( enhanced by the field where he lives) to turn on his fuji camera mod to light a fluorescent bulb.
This is very impressive, but unfortunately not possible everywhere on the globe.
Maybe you will be intrigued with some of the N Stubblefield coils and make one or five and join this effort.
jeanna
Jeanna:
What you said is true but I do want to point out that I am getting pulsed dc according to my scope. This may be the total secret to NS's coils. We always wondered about the make and break, needed to produce volts on the secondary and now, I believe that the earth provides the pulses, as in pulsed dc. This is no different than what happens in our cars using 12 volts and a coil and a computer or points for the make and break which produces high voltage on the secondary. I really think this is what NS discovered.
Bill
The best battery that can be made is the Cesium Fluorine Cell, since Cesium is so expensive it is not even brought up as a conventional chemical battery at least for use in the general public, plus the Cesium is explosive around water and reacts violently with it, even high humidity can generates some good heat.
fluorine, well lets just say it is the most reactive substance known to mankind and needs to be treated with just as much respect as Cesium especially if they are combined all at once.
as far as Earth batteries are concerned they are great for someone who is experimenting but all in all, there isn't anything better than what I mentioned above, the labs use Lithium Sulfate batteries because they have high energy density and are much cheaper than the ladder.
if you have soils containing high amounts of Lithium and or Sulfates then you could make some serious Earth Batteries.
and like you said it is limited to the types of isotopes in your local area.
Quote from: Pirate88179 on October 02, 2009, 10:43:39 PM
Jeanna:
What you said is true but I do want to point out that I am getting pulsed dc according to my scope. This may be the total secret to NS's coils. We always wondered about the make and break, needed to produce volts on the secondary and now, I believe that the earth provides the pulses, as in pulsed dc. ...
... I really think this is what NS discovered.
Bill
I am glad you have pointed that out.
I completely agree.
I have been trying to make the mv go to higher levels.
Tell me Bill,
On your scope, What are the highest voltages peak to peak that you are getting?
Your area is higher in minerals, I think, but I wonder if it is actually higher in those magnetic pulses?
With my simple earth probes mine are around 4.5mv, I think... I will check and edit this if I am wrong.
With the NS coils appended to the probes, I am getting 45mv which is 10x as high and with another inductor in SERIES with one of the wires I got about 85mV.
All my experiments these days are leading to my learning how to match a coil to the existing pulses.
I wonder if anyone knows a formula for that one???
edit
I guess I need those calculator pages and maybe a few plug ins. I remember now, I got the LC meter so I could do this, but it was so much fun to go through all my coils and learn what they were, I completely forgot about using it to match given frequency with needed inductance.
I better switch computers before I forget again! ;)
end edit
thank you,
jeanna
Here is my model of a true Earth Battery.
The Stainless Steel plates must come from the same sheet of metal.
the two soils, Soil A. and Soil B. must be dissimilar soils usually from two different regions.
the stainless steel plates serves no other purpose than to transport electrons from the soils ionic exchange. the stainless should not react in this model.
Jerry ;)
Quote from: onthecuttingedge2005 on October 02, 2009, 11:26:48 PM
Here is my model of a true Earth Battery.
The Stainless Steel plates must come from the same sheet of metal.
the two soils, Soil A. and Soil B. must be dissimilar soils usually from two different regions.
the stainless steel plates serves no other purpose than to transport electrons from the soils ionic exchange. the stainless should not react in this model.
Jerry ;)
I guess you COULD call that an earth battery.
I am not sure where the notion of 'true' comes from, however.
Have you made one yet?
I am not about to add metals to my soil even if it is contained in a stainless box, so I will wait to hear from you.
jeanna
Quote from: jeanna on October 02, 2009, 11:33:50 PM
I guess you COULD call that an earth battery.
I am not sure where the notion of 'true' comes from, however.
the true Earth Battery uses only Earth soil as the destructive anode and cathode elements for ionic exchange.(only thing that needs refilling when depleted).
the stainless steel plates take no part in the chemical reaction other than to transport electrons as a nondestructive anode and cathode.(reusable over and over again).
Quote
Have you made one yet?
not since high school science class was in session.
Quote
I am not about to add metals to my soil even if it is contained in a stainless box, so I will wait to hear from you.
you're not really adding any metals to your soil, your soil already contains metals and metaloids and transitional elements, the best setup is to use dissimilar soils, get some good screened soil from your back yard then get some soil 10 miles from your house and then screen that soil and then assemble your ingredients, the higher the dissimilarity between the two soils the better, if you know what elements are already in your soil then you can look them up on the electronegative chart and get some good data to help you increase your Earth Battery efficiency.
Jerry ;)
All real earth batteries or EER's are placed in the earth itself. Containers of dirt are not earth batteries as they can not receive the earth's telluric currents. Maybe you could call it a dirt battery but, if you read what has been done here so far, as well as the work of Tariel Kapanadze, you will see the real potential (no pun intended) of earth batteries or earth energy receivers.
100 kw out of the earth is nothing to sneeze at. It is free and does not use up anything. It is, of course, not really a battery which is why we have been calling them earth energy receivers.
I have been able to light 400 leds as well as two 48" tubes from my EER and, so far, both electrodes are just fine. My carbon rods have been buried in the ground for over 2 years now.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on October 03, 2009, 01:44:31 AM
All real earth batteries or EER's are placed in the earth itself. Containers of dirt are not earth batteries as they can not receive the earth's telluric currents. Maybe you could call it a dirt battery but, if you read what has been done here so far, as well as the work of Tariel Kapanadze, you will see the real potential (no pun intended) of earth batteries or earth energy receivers.
100 kw out of the earth is nothing to sneeze at. It is free and does not use up anything. It is, of course, not really a battery which is why we have been calling them earth energy receivers.
I have been able to light 400 leds as well as two 48" tubes from my EER and, so far, both electrodes are just fine. My carbon rods have been buried in the ground for over 2 years now.
Bill
Hi Bill.
do you have any current videos that I can chew on?
Jerry ;)
I have watched some of Tariel Kapanadze's videos, I might say that it should be called an Earth Transformer not an Earth Battery.
Jerry,
You can call these what you want to, but we decided to agree on our terms because by doing that we save a lot of time and many misunderstandings.
Sometimes this helps us progress.
I do not have Bill's utube channel on this computer, but I think he is called pirate labs.
You can search for that or...
You can probably find his channel by searching for earth battery or joule thief or joule thief lights a fluorescent bulb or something like that.
jeanna
edit,
Your idea to make a stainless box and 2 soil samples from different areas is so different it probably warrants a new thread.
I will watch your progress as you make these, if you do.
My Youtube name is the same as here: Pirate88179
Here is a link to my channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/Pirate88179
I have about 40 videos up and 99% of them deal with our experiments here on Overunity.com.
Bill
Thanks bill, I have subscribed to your channel.
Jerry ;)
here is the HDCC model, it is pretty easy to make, you can decide how many layers and plates you need by testing the cap with a MFD meter.
Jerry ;)
desktop cell update:
Well I left the copper/iron cell I built in my cubicle over the weekend. In returning to work I noticed that the iron wire was significantly rusted. I am talking real bad. So I placed the 9v alkaline cell back on and managed to 'react' off most of the rust. I now have a pile of rust particles at the bottom of the jar. This is very interesting because the amount of iron oxidation I observed would have certainly grown worse and penetrated the fibrous seperator 'in time' and created a direct continuity path the the copper anode.
So in an unloaded state, this will corrode significantly. BUT... the iron should stay real clean if the battery was operating in a state of discharge. I think I read a thread here that described the Stubblefield battery electrodes as being in excellent condition despite being underground for significant periods of time.
Obviously the switching mechanism of primary coil a critical design requirement to a battery that lives a long life.
I think I am about finished with my desktop observations of the cell I built. I think I will bury it just to see if I get any different electrical results. Exactly what orientation should this be placed in the ground? I have seen videos of people putting them in vertically. I also read a post that stated to put it in horizontally. If horizontal the way to go, should it be placed parallel to field lines. I visited the field line website and have data for my location. I have no idea what the actual terms refer to though or how to put them into practice. So instead, I have been using simple copper - galvanized pipes to manually determine best orientation that makes highest voltage. The line typically created is more or less a slight southeast to northwest orientation (or slighty off from magnetic north-south). Any suggestions would be appreciated!
I have the parts for a full scale battery on hand. I will start building this week. It will generally be as long and of similar diameter to ones shown in the old picture (sitting in wooden box).
I have to state that these things do not work well in jars. So while I will test the big one I build in water, most testing will be conducted in the ground.
Jeanna, I see you mentioned a below ground - above ground scenerio. This is interesting because in my agricultural activities I did come accross what are termed as quantum agricultural broadcasters. I have seen pictures that have a device that operates below and above ground all contained within PVC piping. Part of it uses copper wire wound around a quartz crystal. All freaky to me but who knows, maybe they are onto something. These seem to be based of the work of a guy named Hugh Lovel. This is all fairly controversial stuff at least in the ag industry. The only reason I remain intersested in it is because Bedini made note of significant weed growth associated with his experiments. Perhaps a thorough read of what these agricultural people have discovered can be applied to what we are doing? I'll try looking into it.
What is the deal with Stubblefield reletive's following description of his EB operation?
"Each coilcell was placed within a mix of dampened rare earth and iron particles, that was laden with radio active pitchblende soil."
Rare earth as in the 25 or so elements in this category?
Mixed with Iron particles = creating a magnetic field around the battery?
Is this to say that in order for this design to work it needs the assistance of these other factors?
I do not know about any of you guys but I will not be burying radioactive stuff on my property. I would suppose we could get some rare earth ores, mix with iron shavings and throw in the battery hole.
Jerry,
I have to agree with Jenna. Your battery system seems to be a good idea, but I think it would be best if you opened a new thread just for IT alone...just as THIS thread is about the N.Stubblefield Earth Battery. I, too, will follow your thread if you open it.
SOME of us, really like trying to find ways to make the NS EB actually work. We WANT to use the directions as given to see if we can accomplish what Nathan did. But sometimes other things come along, which we are also interested in, and we get side tracked. That is okay as long as it is carried in its own thread, and does not clutter this one. Please do not take this the wrong way....my words are probably not coming out the way they should. I just ask that you consider opening a new thread. Thank you.
MW383,
I believe it should only go into the ground straight up and down...according to the pictures we have seen and the patent. It sounds as if you will be contributing a lot to this forum. I am hoping you come up with some good results. I plan to bury my latest one soon. The mag wire is on the way, so as soon as it gets here I will be adding the secondary. I have already done the experiments without any secondary. Now it is time for some action.
As far as the radioactive materials the "family" says he uses...sometimes I wonder about that. I have a feeling that at the last, he may have used some such thing, but I don't believe he did at the beginning. Of course that is only my opinion, so take it for what it is worth. I just think that sometimes the "family" is trying to throw us off. Again, MY opinion only.
Quote from: MW383 on October 05, 2009, 10:48:26 AM
...
Obviously the switching mechanism of primary coil a critical design requirement to a battery that lives a long life.
I had a discussion about this with an EE friend. He felt sure and so managed to convince me that this is doing a combination of battery and electrolysis. One per cycle and so whatever was oxidized in one part of the cycle got reduced in the next.
QuoteExactly what orientation should this be placed in the ground? I have seen videos of people putting them in vertically. I also read a post that stated to put it in horizontally. If horizontal the way to go, should it be placed parallel to field lines. I visited the field line website and have data for my location. I have no idea what the actual terms refer to though or how to put them into practice. So instead, I have been using simple copper - galvanized pipes to manually determine best orientation that makes highest voltage. The line typically created is more or less a slight southeast to northwest orientation (or slighty off from magnetic north-south). Any suggestions would be appreciated!
If you look at any photographs of Stubblefield using his devices, you will see that they are always stuck into the ground and the coil part is about 18 inches above the ground.
Do what you think you want to try, but save the one that is hard to build for the 18 inches above trials until you have finished using the other one.
(Mine and Bills and maybe others ended up with shorted coils when they got literally buried.)
Quote
I have to state that these things do not work well in jars. So while I will test the big one I build in water, most testing will be conducted in the ground.
Jeanna, I see you mentioned a below ground - above ground scenerio. This is interesting because in my agricultural activities I did come accross what are termed as quantum agricultural broadcasters.
lousy galvanic battery
quantum agricultural broadcaster!! ;D I love it!
Quote...
Mixed with Iron particles = creating a magnetic field around the battery?
Is this to say that in order for this design to work it needs the assistance of these other factors?
I agree that it is very curious.
My thoughts are that microbes can reassimilate and refresh the wires if there is a need, but I have not seen a need yet.
I agree... no radioactive stuff here either.
I have been stewing a theory about Nathan Stubblefield.
We know 2 things in his dealings with the powers.
1- the patent office refused to grant him a patent unless he called it a galvanic battery AND they did not permit his use of 'magnetic' at all in the description.
These are from his own hand written notes on his brochure.
2- The 'town fathers' declined his offer to install his less expensive wireless cell phone system for the town.
--Now, Why would they do that?
I have been thinking his work was also being blackballed. We know that Tesla's work was blackballed.
Stubblefield was wealthy and did not NEED any backers so the powers could not stop him the same way if they felt threatened by his work.
I think there is every reason to think they might have felt threatened.
Isn't it curious that the notes we do have make no mention of anything that we can use?
He surely kept notes, but there are no notes on his experiments.
He died a bitter man.
Many inventors who cannot understand why no one finds their work acceptable get bitter, so there is no mystery there, But why are there no real notes?
One of our experimenters went to the museum and brought back pictures.
All the notes had to do with newspaper clippings. No experimenter's notes??
HE did not say he used pitchblende and iron filings, so, if he actually used it, then why didn't he mention it?
jeanna
I just did some scopeshots and measurements of my
EB and various combinations of EER with EB etc. whatever all that means! ;)
The reason I want to mention this is because when I started there was nothing I could do to get the dmm volts dc to be higher than 25mv And this was on either set-up.
But since I had set it all up to read it, I went ahead with the scope.
The scope shots seemed to be unaffected by the low dc volts below it.
I have never had the opportunity to see this so dramatically.
But then here is the extra surprize.
Since I had not photographed the the very low dc voltages, I hooked the meter up again and to my surprise, they were normal!
This reminds me of the kapandanze bit where he first charges his EER then get a really big response.
I am just reporting this. I do not know what it means, if anything.
-----
What I was planning to look for today, was to see if I had an inductor I could add to the NS system (or whatever looked best) to augment the voltages. I do not think anything added enough to count.
So that hair clipper wallwart is still the best.
... More on that later when there is something to share.
-----
jeanna
Just some stuff I was reading about these things.
1_ placement critical. needs to be in magic place. no info on how to identify them.
under trees looks to be a popular scheme.
2_ placement obviously vertical over a magic spot. electrical leads above ground thus will
not short out.
3_ soak time required.
4_ secondary coil used to trigger things. primary coil used to collect. makes sense because
primary coil has the heavy guage materials in it and therefore capable of carrying high
currents.
5_ seems to operate like a pump. trigger event causes an earth response in magnitude.
so here are the various quips I collected. My apologies if this is repeat information
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
involved the development and examination of simple earth batteries: buried metallic arrangements, which produced weak electrolytic power. Mr. Stubblefield observed a strange "earth-charging phenomenon", reporting that the burial of an "earth energy cell" required time to build up charge. During the first phase of this charge building process, the characteristic weak output was observed. This was usually a volt at half an ampere, the general electrolytic output of buried metals.
Stubblefield knew that placement of any grounded metal was the key toward deriving power. If properly placed, the energetic output of his cell would be phenomenal. Finding such a power point, he buried the cell. The process took a week or more to build strength. Once the cell was "saturated", however, it became (in his words) "a conduit of earth charge". This mysterious transition from weak battery to energy conduit required time.
Mr. Stubblefield simply stated that the fully saturated coil suddenly "manifested an electromotive force far greater than any known wet-cell". This state being achieved, the cell flowed over in "commercial electrical volumes".
Stubblefield envisioned the energy cell as a "plug", drawing out the electrical charge of the ground. The cell coils acted as a lumped conductor. Charge saturated this conductor and flowed up into it, powering any electrically connected appliance. After repeated exhumations, the copper element of these cells was found "not acted on in any perceptible degree ... even after repeated renewals".
Mr. Stubblefield described means by which such cells could be connected in series at short distances from one another. "With these, acting as electrodes ... you draw from the electrical energy of the earth a constant E.M.F. of commercial value". That phrase... "acting as electrodes..." is the heart of the Stubblefield energy cell. It is not a battery. It absorbs and flows over with the stupendous energy of the earth's charge.
This device, an earthed electrode, drew up enough natural electric charge from the earth to operate motors, pumps, arc lamps, and all the components of his ground telephone system.
Knowing these truths, Stubblefield arranged ground rods in very specific locales in order to intercept the electrical waves for power. He knew that these electrical waves would only appear in very specific places, so he did not expect to find them everywhere in abundance. Stubblefield constantly spoke of "working the ground" before power could be taken from it. Stubblefield observed the natural tides and boundaries of the electrical ocean in and around his lovely rural hometown.
Mr. Stubblefield developed a peculiar bi-metallic induction coil which, when buried, draw up sufficient electrical power to operate lamps and other appliances which he designed and tested. A great length of both cotton-insulated copper and bare iron wires were wound together in a "bifilar" arrangement on a large iron stove bolt. The windings were held side by side throughout the coil. His patent specification describes the device as a "terminal, which draws electricity out of the ground".
This successful operation of the device required very specific ground placement. It would not work with equal effectiveness in all locations. A very precise placement of the device required a precise knowledge, which only dowsers have. Stubblefield shared this particular fact with only one person.
I spoke with an academician who had the extreme privilege of speaking with Mr. Stubblefield's son, Bernard Stubblefield. Bernard, by this time himself quite aged, told that his father's method in locating the "right spot" was deliberate and time consuming. His father referred to the device as a "receptive terminal" and not a battery. Despite the insistence of Patent Officers in calling the device a "battery", Stubblefield declared it to be an "energy receiver ... a receptive cell for intercepting electrical ground waves". Its conductive ability somehow absorbs and directs the enormous volumes of earth energy.
The induction coil, which bears his name is equipped with three coils which are wrapped around upon a heavy iron core. Bare iron wire and cotton covered copper wire are wrapped side by side, comprising a primary coil body. Each layer of this primary coil body is covered by a band of cotton insulation, bringing four wire leads to the coil terminus. Two leads of iron and two of copper are external to the coil. Commercial electrical power is obtained through these connective terminals.
In addition to this bimetallic winding, there is a third winding: the "secondary". This third coil is insulated from the primary bimetallic coil, serving as a trigger device. Presumably, a stimulating impulse shock was introduced into the tertiary coil, after which the upwelling electrical ground response brought forth powerful currents in both iron and copper coils.
Electrolytically (as a battery in acid or saltwater) the Stubblefield coil is disappointing; producing less than one volt according to those who have duplicated its construction. Stubblefield's bimetallic coil was a "plug": a receiver, which intercepts the vast and free electrical reservoir of the ground itself. His patent and subsequent company brochures define the manner in which his earth battery was to be activated.
Furthermore, though the Stubblefield power receiver is wound like an induction coil, it produces a steady direct current output. This poses additional problems for the conventional engineers. Electrical induction only occurs with electrical alternations, oscillations, and impulses.
These buried coils may have become saturated with earth electrostatic energy, which traveled from subterranean depths. In such a case, the mere battery power of the coil was replaced by the electrostatic flow, the coil acting as an electrode. This seemed obvious when considering the fact that its ordinary battery current (1 watt) was gradually replaced by a continually growing electrical current of far greater proportion.
Experimenters have observed the "slow accumulation and creep" of current up through vertically buried coils and large solid rods. This current has growth characteristics, which gains strength with lengthened burial time. Buried coils and rods do not give their full output until they have "developed" power over a few hours of time.
Witnesses convey that Mr. Stubblefield's batteries were usually buried at the roots of certain very old oak trees. From these sites it was possible for him to bring small arc lamps to their full candlepower. Tremendous amounts of energy are required for this expenditure of power. Not only was he remarkably able to draw such volumes of current from the ground reservoir for lamp lighting, but the power was available to him throughout the day.
Certain conventional thinkers claimed that the Stubblefield simply used wetcell power for his telephones. Later demonstrations indicate the fundamental error of this conventional view. Stubblefield ran most of his apparatus nonstop for days; without turning off the power. It is more than likely that charged wetcells were used to "jump start" the ground electrode during certain seasons, since the patent reveals that an outer third coil could be added to the copper-iron bimetal.
We do not know the secrets of the earth charge as Nathan determined. Others since this time have observed fluctuations at certain times of the year in ground energy. It may be that a sudden induction is required before the excess ground charge surges to the surface ... like priming a pump. The arc lamps could have been low-pressure gas arc lamps of the kind demonstrated by Daniel MacFarland-Moore; but these required high voltages. Nathan did not utilize such excessive voltages.
When properly placed, the weak power of the Stubblefield "battery" becomes an electrode for the powerful earth charge. But arc lighting and battery charging was not his only specialty; there were other marvels, which he began developing in methodical succession. His bimetallic coil receiver intercepted electrical waves and produced enormous power outputs, which could be modulated: superimposed with additional signals, sounds ... and voices
MW383,
What is the source for all that?
Some seems to contradict itself, like the secondary not being a secondary but instead a trigger on one part then being the regular secondary on the other.
Also, he did write his own brochure and in it he states that it IS an induction coil as well as a magnetic device. (I want to say fluctuating magnetic, but I am not on the right computer.)
Please let us know how your coils work and any new thoughts you have.
thank you,
jeanna
@ MW383:
Great post. Of all the Stubblefield stuff I have read, I do not recall reading this before, maybe Jeanna does.
Stubblefield declared it to be an "energy receiver ."
I am glad to read this as it means our new term EER (Earth Energy Receiver) is more accurate. We pretty much knew it was not a battery back in our early days but we called it that because that is what everyone was calling it. I think we should continue calling it an EER, especially now that we read that Nathan himself called it that.
Maybe Jeanna could re-post the lay lines or earth energy map that she posted somewhere before. On that map, a lot of the lines crossed at the location of Nathan's farm, or at least in that general area. I seem to remember Jeanna thinking those lines crossed in my area, which might explain my success but actually they crossed about 2 hours drive to the west of me...right near Murry, KY.
Bill
@All
out of habit from the beginning of when I joined in the discussion, I have been calling it an NS EB. I believe I should be calling it a B.E.E.R or at least a E.E.R as the rest of you do. I do like the BEER name, heh heh. It is, after all, a Bi-metallic Earth Energy Receiver...but I can go with EER also. I believe it was either Bill or Jeanna who came up with both of those names.
Now I have a question about placement, too. If I were to "bury" (up to the neck, perhaps?" the EER in a hole which is already about 10 feet deep, I would still have it in the ground. Do you think it would capture any of the earth waves that far down? I was thinking I would make a box that had all kinds of contraptions to test and hook the box up (in the house) to the buried EER down there in the hole and see what all happens. (I would have easy access to it all winter) This is an area where the water pipes come into the house. No electric wires, just the water. Would that (the water pipes) have any effect on the EER?
I thought I would also see about getting an oscillator and try that out too...as soon as I can afford one, that is. And as soon as I finally make a JT, I will also see if that can be incorporated into the whole setup in some manner.
I plan to draw out the schematics and make a homemade type "breadboard" of sorts for each different component to test. Therefore I can see just what an inductor does, or an additional coil or capacitor etc., might do. And it would all come off from the same "buried" EER. And of course, take pictures of each test. That is my plan. Do you think it will work that far down into the ground?
Quote from: protonmom on October 05, 2009, 07:02:20 PM
Now I have a question about placement, too. If I were to "bury" (up to the neck, perhaps?" the EER in a hole which is already ab...
... Do you think it will work that far down into the ground?
There is only one way to know!! :D
Quote... Would that (the water pipes) have any effect on the EER?
I thought I would also see about getting an oscillator and try that out too......
water pipes are usually a ground for something and often for the telephone... out west anyway.
A joule thief IS an oscillator... a darn good one too.
They usually run you about $2.50. Can't beat that price!
@Bill,
I really want to know the source for that.
I have seen in the brochure reference to things I missed, so it may even be there.
Here is the ref to magnetic/ inductor:
These 2 parts of the brochure contradict some of MW383's references.
I would like to see the source??? please?
jeanna
Sorry...I meant Oscilloscope, not oscillator. I must be tired tonight.
Edit: aside from my spelling mistake, my main concern was whether or not burying the EER that deep in the ground would work or not. The reason I ask is because a while back someone said that most of the earth waves were near the top of the ground. Not sure who said that or where. Yes, the only way to find out, I suppose, is to go ahead and do it.
And so I will.
I don't remember who said it either, but all the pics show them above the ground so I think that is where they go.
Mine are on bolts which determine how far above ground they can go.
I buried one and ruined it .
It is fine if it is dry, but it got shorted and never worked when wet again.
So, my opinion is they should be above the ground.
My best result is 85mVac not much. Certainly not what all those words sound like, so I am not the person to ask.
I just made a lot of em and tried hard... ;)
jeanna
Edit
MW383
Maybe you have not seen these videos?
I had a NS EER connected to my scope one day and turned on a joule thief circuit and the NS EER made the scope do a dance at 100mV
This is the reason for my new experiments with 2 of them in the ground.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_wAsAeUIHA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_wAsAeUIHA)
This is the first one.
The little green one is the one that can no longer get wet, but it still does something as you will see.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9ZFKDSxFTE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9ZFKDSxFTE)
This is with 2 more generators both of which are now in the ground.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjgldKgRU9w (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjgldKgRU9w)
This one is the little green one and one big pipe one (now in the ground) and The really cool part is that the NS EER ia picking up as much as 350mv from a joule thief which is at the same time lighting a fluorescent light.
The joule thief is providing 450v for the fluoro tube, and at the same time the NS EER is 'receiving' 350mv from the air!
They are short, but youtube is slow for me these days. Just let them buffer to the middle then you will see them through.
jeanna
Jeanna,
very nice videos of your experiments!
the more I think about this thing the more I am intrigued. I remain convinced that, from an electrochemical standpoint, this device will never produce useful current. I sincerely believe that the voltaic electrode pair is just there to attach a voltage.
What I am intrigued with is the bifilar aspect of the coil. We need an expert opinion regarding this part of the design.
I'm going to build a simple iron core - bifilar copper test coil for starters and start getting a feel for it.
I think I am gaining on this thing and just need to keep experimenting !!
Here are a couple of websites I found. They may be repeat from prior posts though.
http://www.hbci.com/~wenonah/history/nathan-s.htm
http://www.smart90.com/tvimagazine/2005/2705/107GrandpaNat&Firewire01.htm
the second website is a disaster to navigate through but it did have some nice historical information....
Quote from: MW383 on October 06, 2009, 11:07:12 AM
very nice videos of your experiments!
thanks.
QuoteI sincerely believe that the voltaic electrode pair is just there to attach a voltage.
What I am intrigued with is the bifilar aspect of the coil.
I agree about the voltaic bit.
I think we are the experts.
So, there is a lot more to do.
QuoteI'm going to build a simple iron core - bifilar copper test coil for starters and start getting a feel for it.
Bifilar copper? Do you mean like a joule thief but on a cylindrical core of iron?
I think it will work, then you can make one just the same with copper and iron and see the difference??
That is a very good idea if I am following you.
In june, I stuck a non galvanic ns eer into the slot of a breadboard (when I made the scope movie I was planning to repeat it.) I first made the wires connect as they are in a joule thief.
It worked very well.
My opinion is that NS was the first to invent the joule thief.
I noticed in the brochure snippet I posted yesterday that he said the primary need only be 100 feet.
I have never made one that large.
The longest I ever made the copper wire was 30 feet because that is how it came from the hardware store.
I did take apart a 100 ft tele extension cord and I have used that for jumpers etc.
eesh...
I don't really want to make another but IF I were to do that, I would start with a 2 foot piece of rebar and wind a 100 ft piece of tel wire along side a 100 ft piece of rebar tie wire from a roll, and maybe that would produce something from the earth currents.
I will wait for some cold rainy week to do that! :D maybe in january.
I will follow those links. Thank you,
jeanna
Well I built the bifilar test unit. It is very crude, basically iron bolt about 8 inches long (about 3/8" diameter) x 2 copper coils side by side (both insulated) x 3 layers of coils. Wire guage for each was 16 because I wanted to remain in NS construction scale. So coil construction similar to NS, I just removed galvanic aspects from the equation. I will be applying voltages from external battery source.
I am in process in adding a secondary coil to the outside of primary. I'll probably use 30ga wire for this.
What will any of this teach me (if anything)? Not sure but I remain very interested in bifilar coil operation. There has to be a reason he specified this very particular coil arrangement.
Quote from: MW383 on October 06, 2009, 04:00:02 PM
... I just removed galvanic aspects from the equation. I will be applying voltages from external battery source.
Good timing.
I just finished gerry vassilatos' treatise. I remember reading it years ago. I believe this is the one that made me want to try this device myself.
Thanks for the link.
I just want to point out that you may have removed another part from your coil beyond the galvanic.
There very well might be a magnetic activity that goes along the iron wire because it is coupled magnetically with the copper wire.
I do hope you make another one with one strand being iron.
We can then compare ours.
I made a few non galvanic ones and one of them is quite good.
I am glad you are bringing these things up again. I had forgotten to address them and now I understand more, they seem important!
It is great to have you (and protonmom) adding to the Stubblefield experiments.
thank you,
jeanna
Anybody try burying a joule thief yet ?
When considering whether the NS coils should be above ground or not for energy purposes, keep in mind that he had different arrangements for various applications.
Also his "make and brake" comment may refer to a switching mechanism which when synchronized with the pulse of the earth can be made to intensify the return pulse, and in so doing drawing more energy from the earth.
Regards...
Quote from: jeanna on October 06, 2009, 04:12:12 PM
There very well might be a magnetic activity that goes along the iron wire because it is coupled magnetically with the copper wire.
I do hope you make another one with one strand being iron.
You are right! I will rewind this unit to have copper and iron. I like this breaking things down into pieces approach. I think once we have a good understanding of coil / magnetic field behavior, other aspects will more easily fall into place (hopefully)
I'm glad to be here. This is really fun. I just wish I was more electrically knowledgable. I'm more from the mechanical side of the fence with a dash of electrochemistry thrown in. I can wire a house or an appliance but these types of circuits are crude compared with the stuff you guys are used to. I will try to be as useful as I can here at any rate.
.........
ok, i just built another unit; copper + iron. 3 individual layers. by this I mean that each layer has its own set of leads. all leads open ended right now, not attached to each other or anything else.
*iron 1 -------------------------coil----------------------- iron 1
copper 1 ----------------------coil----------------------- copper 1
-iron 2 -------------------------coil----------------------- iron 2*
copper 2 ----------------------coil-----------------------copper 2
+iron 3 -------------------------coil----------------------- iron 3
copper 3 ----------------------coil-----------------------copper 3
if I attach a 1.5v AA battery (positive to iron 3 left side, negative to iron 2 left side, see above +/- markings for battery attach points) I can measure 164mA current between iron 1 left side and iron 2 right side (see * marks above for multimeter attach points). On another note, AA battery doing fine, not dead shorted or overheating. AA battery by itself measures 207mA.
I have no shorts in the system. what am I seeing here?
Looking for any designs and shematic on earth batteries, especialy those usind a layed sheet design.
Mezalon
I am still playing with the dry coil consisting of iron and copper coils. Again, there are three layers of coils here, one on top of another. Coils each have iron and copper wound side by side. Each coil layer has open ended wires at each end, not connected to anything - just hanging out in the breeze.
So I am basically supply power to various coil ends on its left side wires only. All coil ends on right side open ended and hanging in the breeze.
Various combinations of power input points produce interesting interesting mA readings at same or different location in regards to power input points. All from powering only one side of coil. I would love to have an expert explain this to me. Build a three layer coil like this one and try it out! Meanwhile I will collect data and attempt to summarize.
...
introducing external magnetism to this coil when powered also creates interesting results.
well in applying voltage to the copper leads and measuring things, nothing is out of the ordinary. I didn't think anything would be.
My problems lie in inconsistent iron results. I am going to build yet another dry coil. iron only. like this current coil, 3 layers w/ all open leads.
Either I have a problem with my current coil in its construction, or something new is happening here. I can't say which without further confirmation. Hence rebuild iron only coil and try to duplicate anomoly.
I'll post later.....
Quote from: MW383 on October 07, 2009, 11:59:54 AM
introducing external magnetism to this coil when powered also creates interesting results.
like the earth mag field, perhaps? ;)
Quotewell in applying voltage to the copper leads and measuring things, nothing is out of the ordinary. I didn't think anything would be.
But it might if you connect some wires.
QuoteMy problems lie in inconsistent iron results. I am going to build yet another dry coil. iron only. like this current coil, 3 layers w/ all open leads.
Maybe instead of a problem it is a clue?
I just told myself that one today, and I need to suss it out.
---
These are very interesting things you are doing.
What happens if you connect the end of one (Fe3) to the beginning of the other (Fe2)?(orCu2)
This is what a joule thief does and how I have had interesting things happen with my stubblefield coils too.
In one of those brochure posts above, he indicates that you might connect the outer one to the inner one. He leaves it a little vague, but, it is close to what you are already doing.
Please keep trying things and report the un success as well as the success. This always helps.
thank you,
jeanna
add:
Mezalon,
Someone recently visited with beaucoup ideas about this and we suggested he start another thread.
THIS thread migrated to be a stubblefield coil thread a loooong time ago.
His name is onthecuttingedge2005. Maybe he has started the new thread or maybe joined another?
j
MW383,
What happened? I thought you wanted to build a NS EER. It seems you want to build an entirely new version. That might be okay, but it kind of threw me off there for a bit. Why not try to build a coil exactly as is instructed in the patent? Bi-filar all the way down, then layer of cotton fabric, then bi-filar all the way back up, layer of cotton fabric, etc., etc.
Two ends beginning, two ends ending. NS made several layers. Then add the secondary. Take the time to actually READ the instructions. If not in the patent, then read what has been written by the members of this forum who have actually tried to do just as the patent said to do. Just my opinion, so take it or not.
@all: Well, my mag wire came in today. Boy, was I ever disappointed. The actual product looks a whole lot different than what was shown in EBAY. It is a lot smaller, so the picture he used to sell the product must have been made to look larger. (sigh... Buyer beware!) Oh well, at least I have SOMETHING to start with to make the secondary now.
protonmom,
I absolutely intend on building a straight up NS battery. I have been in an exploritory mode for the past week attempting to understand various aspects of the design; hence my narrow scope of experimentation. There is more to this patent than meets the eye. Critical small details that I have yet to fully comprehend. Therefore I will continue my segmented research before building a real deal battery I can bury in the earth and power my farm with!
Patents are funny business. They tell you concepts but lack in details. I am actually party to this type of thing via my own latest patent application. What happened is I wrote a very detailed paper on how my design worked. This in turn was rewritten by patent attorney representing the company I work for. In reading what patent attorney wrote and comparing to my original information; it is clearly seen that the two bodies of information are very differently written. Attorneys are professionally trained to craft words, craft concepts based on an assembly of words, and thus craft a percieved truth. A document may appear as if written in English but the 'legal' definition of words differs from the Webster's definition in many cases. There is a difference between straight English and 'legal' English. I have to assume that the same process is used in any professionally prepared patent including Stubblefield's.
I have to believe that there is design merit with the Stubblefield battery. One does not go through the efforts he did for something that was not up to par. It is up to us in re-discovering the various aspects of the design as they are not at all explained in the patent.
jeanna,
i continue to experiment with my jar battery, copper iron dry battery, and also all iron coil configuration. since I am not electrically savy, I will post a myraid of different results in a few days with the request that electrically minded people that are a part of this thread may interpret. I have laid to rest electrochemical aspects of this design since I believe they only play a minor part. As stated previously, my highest interests lie in the coil design, especially the iron portion of it.
I have built a battery that has the customary iron/copper primary coil configuration in addition to smaller wire guage copper secondary coil. Results here are not all that impressive so far. Sure I can energize the primary coil, de-energize it, and then capture energy in the secondary but this mode of output appears inconsistent with what Stubblefield was achieving.
He was dealing with power to run heavier loads which tells me that a rugged coil was being used, not some light weight guage wire with a million turns. The photographic geometry of his very own batteries is interesting to me. What I am getting at is; there may be credence to the comments that it was the primary coil that supplied useful power to externally attached devices. Which is the main reason I have backtracked a little in order to make a study of the iron portion of the coil design. As simple as this thing looks, I have to believe there is more here than meets the eye.
I'll keep playing and also keep posting!
MW383, I am glad you posted again. That is good that you are experimenting but at the same time keeping the patent in mind. I agree, there is a lot more to it than meets the eye. And yes, Nathan would not have powered his home nor built so many of his ""EER's" if they did not work. We just have to find what the missing "ingredient" is. Sometimes some of the members think they have found it, but it does not pan out. But if two or more ideas were melded together, perhaps than we would find the key. Also just so you know...we have had a few people come in who seemed to want to hi-jack the thread, so I (for one) am a little testy at times with someone like that. If they have a good idea, but it is not Stubblefield related, THEN they should make a new forum. I did not mean to upset you in any way. Glad to know you want to follow the patent and will in good time. Also, there is nothing wrong with adding to the patent, as there might be something you will stumble on that should have been told to us in the first place. Just as long as it is mainly along the lines that Nathan gave us, then it should still be a NS EER. Have you finished wrapping the primary yet? Will you be adding a secondary? Did you ever get a chance to read the first fifty pages or so of the forum so you could see what others have done? It really does help. And it might save you from making some of the same mistakes others have made. Good luck in your quest, and don't forget to share with the rest of us if you should be lucky enough to discover something. :D
To all readers.....
Thank you for your thoughtful replies since I have been here in the past week.
(protonmom/Jeanna)
Since this seems to be a multi-faceted design, I have chosen to examine each of its facets individually in the hopes that something comes to light when all connected back together. As you know I have moved well past the electrochemical nature of the design. As I stated to Jeanna, I believe that the copper-iron voltaic couple are just there to attach a voltage to the currents flowing through the system. So technically speaking, the voltage producing aspects of the design are no more advanced than a baghdad battery.
So what does this leave us? Well obviously we have a coil design here. Coils as we know have very interesting properties especially where magnetism is concerned. Hence my complete shift into these aspects of the design. Since electromagnetism and electrical engineering are outside my technical mastery, I have been taking a research - experimentation approach here; baby steps if you will. I have some logical ability and the ability to follow a scent and right now the scent is leading me directly to the coil/magnetic aspects of the design. In several instances in the Stubblefield patent, the words induce and induction are associated with the word current.
So for the past 2 days I have stopped my desktop experimentation in order to become educated on inductive coils. And I believe I have found a trail of breadcrumbs that is enabling me to understand not only inductive coils but Stubblefield's adaptation of them. It is appearing that Stubblefield built on then known principals of inductive coils. His main contribution to this earlier body of knowledge (earlier by as much as 30 years, maybe more...) seems to be that he included voltaic production into the inductive coil design. This is innovative in my opinion, and for its designed purpose, a nice compliment to the original induction coil technology developed by other people at this time.
So we have 3 primary concepts here.
1) inductive coils and their inherent properties. (before Stubblefield)
2) incorporating voltage production into the inductive system. (Stubblefield)
STOP! : 1 + 2 will not = sustainability. are we therefore screwed? NOT AT ALL.
3) introduce a compliment into the 1+2 system. In this case the complement is earth magnetism. So in my opinion this is another nice touch by Stubblefield.
Now it is time to discuss a new line of thinking.....
A self oscillating, multi-coiled inductive system sounds great in theory but I believe not purely obtainable in reality. Too many physical laws (mainly the primary thermodynamic variety). BUT....
I theorize that by capitalizing on small amounts of naturally occurring earth magnetic fields, the sustainability threshold can be reached, and sustainable magnetic field oscillation within an inductive system can be maintained. Such a system will not violate thermodynamic laws because we simply add in an auxillary force to help things along, and it happens to be naturally occurring and free to use. Let's discuss.....
Let's say you have built a very, very efficient multi-coiled inductive system. Cool, this is a good start. Such a design involves a number of parameters; overall size aspects, distance aspects, wire lengths, wire guages, magnetic field properties of the various coils, various thresholds, energizing-collapse aspects, and all of these individual items combined. Let's decree that you had a system that was 90% efficient (i'm just picking a number here). Such efficiency would involve both excellent theoretical design and very good construction aspects of that design. This in itself is not sustainable.
So....with an external boost (like naturally occurring earth magnetics), the lost 10% can be recovered. No laws are broken here. Stubblefield had to know this. AND SO DID THE PATENT OFFICE, hence their requirement that the device be labelled as an earth battery. I absolutely do not mean to detract from the very nice thinking behind this design, in fact I think it a very practical idea regardless of inventor claims / patent office categorizations... In theory this is just plain COOL!
Since I believe that the naturally occurring magnetics are both weak and variable; finding the right place to put the induction coil / battery would be critical in making up the difference (10% in my above analogy). Hence the very deliberate process taken on identifying the right locations. Coil/Battery (whatever we term his device as) location had to literally be a pass/fail scenerio. It seems that Stubblefield ran into problems during a communications demonstration in New York due to what he determined as poor earth conditions. The demonstration was cancelled. This may have been the point in time that the rumored earth enhacements came into play (rare earths, radioactive ores). With competing communications systems existing at the time, it is quite possible that they became dominant instead of Stubblefield's. (all guesses on my part as the recorded history I have read is vague at best).
And this is where I am at today. What is needed here is expert induction coil design along Stubblefield ideology / parameters (plus others like Cook perhaps!) AND a properly located hole in the ground. Should we run into ground issues, we should have plenty of ability to compensate through other methods not available during Stubblefield's era (another guess on my part). The other thing I think we have going for us is general design optimizations that have been done on inductive type coils since the late 1800's. I would think that we should fundamentally be able to construct better devices that are more efficient and thus maybe not as sensitive to ground conditions like the original's may have been (yet another guess) The point I am making is that despite a few potential limitations, I think we can power through them. There are a lot of electrically minded people here who I am sure can have good input.
I have to believe that with a good induction coil design, this idea has to work well. I would also assume that if a 'make/break' resistance introduced to the system, it will start electron flow and exhibit cyclic characteristics identical to those of the earth in which the 'battery' is buried.
If we were to work this out from 1800's available information only; I would take Daniel McFarland Cook and combine with Nathan Stubblefield. The question I have is, exactly how much power are we talking here?
Think about it.... :)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hopefully I do not offend with any of this. I am very interested in this design! If I am completely off the map with any of this, then please let me know :) I've been off the map before and will not be offended if told so. Thanks for allowing me to participate in the discussion and theorize.
Don't forget that Stubblefield and Tesla were friends at that time. I am convinced after seeing Kapanadze's work that the spark gap was the make and break part of the device and Stubblefield knew it would adjust itself and really, if you want to look at it as I am at this point, the spark gap was used by Stubblefield the way we use transistors today. I think he and Tesla used these even before the vacuum tubes of radio fame.
So, I believe, and of course I could be wrong, that this was actually a precursor of sorts to the transistor circuit. His EER put out tremendous amounts of power and, as he said, without any deterioration of the metals used. This told me that it is not a galvanic battery and not really a battery at all.
Take my electrode experiments...If I put the metals (carbon and magnesium) into a pot of water or other electrolyte, I would get volts and amperage but only for a while. Being in the ground now for about 2 years and aligned properly, I can still see no real effect on any of the electrodes and they still light up stuff.
Now, how do you align an NS coil when you are only using one? I have no idea. From the photos of his farm, it appeared to me that he used some of these devices in a grouping as they could be seen in a box all connected together.
Still a lot for us to try here for sure. I just wish I knew more about how the Russian kapanadze was making his device work. I'll bet we could get a real clue from that.
Bill
MW383,
Wow, what a great bunch of thoughts.
First, please give me the Cook reference.
I believe tesla referred to him in some of his lectures, and I would like th read or re read him.
I think your summary is an excellent one and worthy of some experiments.
I have been making experiments on an interesting circuit for many reasons, and I think the one reason that keeps me going is to learn - with my hands- how to take an existing pulse and use it as it is to make something useful.
It happens to be accumulating many inductors to achieve this. yeay!
Have you seen some of professor Lewin's lectures?
He is a brilliant teacher at MIT who has kindly allowed non MIT students to take part in his lectures.
It is one of the finest examples of open source I can site.
If you go to lectures from the spring 2002 8.02 physics lectures and perhaps start at lecture 16 you will be getting a lot of wonderful help.
Bill had recommended it, but not until recently was I able to watch the whole lecture.
I am not saying this to make you get busy, just it is incredibly helpful.
I believe this is the lecture which most closely deals with Faraday's laws and it explains so many of the elements we are dealing with that researchers of the late 1800's knew well. ... oh do check it out.
The only other piece I want to add is that in 1890-1910 the world had not yet grown accustomed to electricity and to say someone powered his house probably does not mean he had enough to run a dishwasher and hot water heater while he watched a dvd.
All those things were no part of a home until later.
But we do know how to conserve, don't we?
---
The power grid went off in my substation today. A teen ran into a main pole and it was out for 12 1/2 hours. They were quiet and calm hours, but if I were unable to detach from the life electric, it may have been hard.
I took advantage of this and made some scopeshots of the EER probes with and without the Stubblefield coils.
The basic probes although they were so dry they said 0.00vdc, gave me actually MORE ac volts than when the grid is up.
The stubblefield coils were very active as they always are - and I THINK not as high as usual.
Later, I rechecked and the stubblefield coils had a higher reading. One more like the usual.
The trouble with all these comparisons is that there is an overlap because of differences in time of day and other things.
I will try to put this info together and post it on the datalogging thread in the next day or 2.
Gotta catch up.
Now, I better make that food. It is 7:15 and grid or no grid, that food needs to be cooked!
thank you,
jeanna
MW, Pirate, Jeanna and Protomom,
I read your last page of posts with great interest. MW, I really like your idea of the Stubblefield battery as an inductor. Way, way back in the misty recesses of this thread, there was mention of the inductive properties of crystalline structure of rusted iron windings in the SEB, I think. However, given the general crystalline structure of most metals (oxidized or not), might the idea of tapping into a coil's inductive properties in relation to the earth's magnetic field (and in play with energy from the sun) have merit?
Interesting work has been done to show that the crystalline structure within clear diodes has inductive properties. I wonder if Tesla's Radiant Energy Collector (US Pat 685 957) was based on his knowledge of the crystalline property of metal in his collector (laminated sheet of metal). Perhaps a laminated sheet and SEB coil may be tapping into similar inductive phenomea. Just a thought...
I posted a similar comment re coil winding and the Stubblefield battery here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8138.msg204201#msg204201
Regards,
Bob
Jeanna,
Well I have went back to experiementation. The one copper-iron coil that had the strange iron readings was verified to be defective. I switched to an analog meter and sure enough, it showed the problem. Strange deal that the digital meter didn't show things more clearly but live and learn....So with that out of the way I have been building simple coils and generally playing around.
Best magnetic results of a multi-layer coil are always when flow is unidirectional. So I will wind a layer, run an external lead back up to starting point and then wind the next layer. This always stronger than the ones where I simply wind the next coil in reverse / the opposite direction. These experiments based of Daniel Cook's patent. (real basic...but good for a beginner like me).
So in doing this, I went back to Stubblefield and realized that with open ended copper and iron coils (#10 wires), the only thing remaining to close the loop is the galvanic reaction itself through the water electrolyte. So you apply a resistive load across 5 and 6, this gets chemistry moving and we get our less than 1 volts and some milliamps. I am assuming that a weak magnetic field is being created here because of the electron flow through the coils. On my small battery, I get no detectable magnetic field. My battery way to small and only a single layer at the moment.
What kind of magnetic field are you observing with your full sized multi-layers batteries?
So the other thing I am looking at is optimizing my coil construction itself. I see many coil designs that have a deliberate space between magnetic core and the inner-most layer of windings. Everything I have done has had no space, other than paper insulator I am starting my first layer essentially right on the core shaft. I'll look into this further but it looks simply like the field need not have deep penetration into the core, surface contact with minor penetration seems to be a very popular configuration in the world.
Well I have to go for now. Will post later. I just wanted to announce that the strange iron results were no anomoly and strictly the result of a defective iron winding.
I'll dig out the Cook stuff and send when I get back to other computer. Your mention of conservation is important. I have a lot of people contacting me about alternative energy (mainly wind) and asking what system they need to power their house. When I tell them they need a unit in very high kW range that costs $30,000 they freak. This is where I lecture on conservation. If we meet alternative energy 1/2 way with some conservation, then the situation is more realistic. Some things are easy like switching to LED lighting. Other things like washing machines and furnace blower motors are a different story. Now if you mix alternative energy with conservation and also lifestyle changes, then you can still have some modern conveniences and also be sustainable. This is what I tell people anyway... Somehow I do not think they will be hand washing / air drying their laundry anytime in the future. :)
Thanks again!
Quote from: MW383 on October 10, 2009, 01:25:05 PM
...
Best magnetic results of a multi-layer coil are always when flow is unidirectional. ... This always stronger than the ones where I simply wind the next coil in reverse / the opposite direction. These experiments based of Daniel Cook's patent. (real basic...but good for a beginner like me).
I did not find this to be true.
I have mentioned that I made several nongalvanic coils and one was wound as you describe.
It flunked.
I was using an external battery and do not recall how I figured it flunked, but I never destroy my coils (intentionally), so I will try it again as a joule thief.
Quote...
...
What kind of magnetic field are you observing with your full sized multi-layers batteries?
How are you doing this?
All I have ever tried was a compass and a bottle filled with babyoil and iron filings.
I never saw anything with the bottle. But if it is changing make and break by its design it would be too fast to make its field show in the oil.
Quote...I see many coil designs that have a deliberate space between magnetic core and the inner-most layer of windings. Everything I have done has had no space, other than paper insulator I am starting my first layer essentially right on the core shaft....
It works a lot better on a joule thief when the turns are wrapped on the toroid directly. Later turns can be away but the more you can get to actually touch the toroid core, the better the response, for a joule thief secondary.
Quotethe result of a defective iron winding.
Does that mean it was shorted?
QuoteI'll dig out the Cook stuff ...
Thanks,
jeanna
Jeanna,
my magnetic strength measurement is quite crude; how many paperclips can i lift with it! I have been able to create decent magnetic fields using test coils with 1.5V supplied to a simple copper coil wrapped around a 1/2inch diameter bolt that is 8inches long. Tests were with 1 coil layer only comprimised of #16 AWG insulated copper wire. Things were even better when I took (2) 1.5V AA batteries and ran them in parallel.
So generally speaking, assuming magnetic field big enough for inductive effect, collapse of this primary field inductively transfers the energy to the secondary coil. So this is why I have been so interested in magnetic aspects of the design. So it would seem that we need a strong magnetic field to utilize the inductive effects Stubblefield mentions.
I'm getting to the point that the battery itself will never self generate magnetic fields of useful nature. My experiments with externally powered coils have shown me that lots of volt-amps needed to do this. (at least with materials / apparent dimensions listed in the patent)
If the magnetism were naturally supplied by earth somehow, then some problems seem to get solved. I think I am going to run my next experiements geared at supplying external magnetism to the system. I just can't seem to make any of the design's other aspects explain the results Stubblefield achieved.
In the end, I have a lot more to learn over here :)
thanks!
So it would seem that a constantly fluxuating / strong magnetic field is what we need. I have read about various methods to oscillate (from mechanical means to spark gap means).
To me a Stubblefield battery of value would need the following aspects:
1) strong magnetic field that oscillates. such field strong enough to allow for induction to occur through coils.
2) either lots of amps in the cell or lots of volts in the cell - so that through induction games, a useful voltage AND current is produced. My particular goal would be 12-13VDC at .5-1Amp. (enough to slow charge a car battery that operates a household array of LED lighting)
3) integral voltage production (already present)
4) long term / constant operation
I am now reading the very nice induction coil book written by Frederick Collins (circa 1909). This is a great book full of nice coil constructional information. I recommend this to everyone here. It is available through Google Books and is a 12MB file.
MW383
Please provide an actual link to that book.
I was not able to get it from a google search.
Thanks
jeanna
Jeanna, I believe he meant this one:
http://www.archive.org/details/designconstruct00collgoog
I have the actual hardcover book by Collins on radio waves. It is very interesting. Here is my bookmarked google link to a list of his books to download.
http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22Collins%2C%20A.%20Frederick%20(Archie%20Frederick)%2C%201869-%22
protonmom,
yes this is the link! what is interesting so far in my readings, is that the book deals with standard inductive coil designs and not necessarily Stubblefield's version of it. but for beginners like me, it is good book to read. if anything, there are various materials tables there that indicate various relationships/dimensions/quantities between parts. there is also a very nifty way at visually displaying the magnetic field created by the primary (jeanna seems to have a similar method). based on what the field looks like, the secondary coils are then built in such a fashion (multiple discs) that allows maximum absorption. this can be seen by smaller coil discs on ends where field is weaker, and progressively thicker coil discs towards the center where field is stronger and extends out further. all real nifty stuff. primary coils seem uni-directional in this book. bifilar winding schemes also increase magnetic field. all neat information for a beginner like me...
Stubblefield patent and pictures pretty vague in my opinion. it basically says to create the windings like the picture. we already know that some aspects of the picture are inconsistent; like # of coils in relationship to wire end location (all one side). Nothing in the patent necessarily says to wind one layer in one direction and wind the very next layer in the opposite direction. it just says to do it like the picture. if we were to also do things like the picture then i guess we would have to make sure that all copper and iron wires were precisely wound on top of each other throughout the various layers; something I find impossible to do at this point. so i am thinking of various small experiments that hopefully clear things up.
IF we were to subscribe to the various statements that state:
1) useful power to be drawn from the heavier guage primary coil
2) auxillary secondary coil used as a trigger.
3) system acts as a pump, actions in the 'battery' trigger a very strong earth response.
etc...
THEN i assuming that there is much more to the primary coil i do not understand (especially its exact construction) and that while induction seems to be a part of things, it is not necessarily the usual standard induction coil design.
polarity is another thing that intrigues me. especially where it oscillates between the 2 sides. this could possibly be linked with the pumping action / strong earth responses. maybe it can be linked to coil construction?
i like a good mystery and this 'battery' definitely fits the bill :)
more random thoughts:
1 - Stubblefield had, more or less, vertical placement of his batteries.
2 - The battery's primary coil probably induced a N-S polarity onto the iron core.
3 - So if you were collecting energy with this coil, I would assume that the energy would want to attract thus a specific polarity in core / primary winding direction?
4 - What if secondary coil was operated in a fashion as to have an opposite iron core polarity?
here is what i am trying to grasp:
use a weak coil to push against naturally occurring earth magnetics. it will be a weak push.
meanwhile, earth says no way to this and pushes back in an effort to re-establish equilibrium. it pushes back harder. at this time we have a much stronger coil ready and waiting to recieve this push back.
it's like throwing a stone into water, the water will want to re-equilibrate and fill the temporary void created by the stone. so in effect, our little magnetic games are being played in 'an ocean' of energy. this energy ocean will want to equilibrate if disturbed. we just need to disturb it enough....
oscillation (make break) obviously needed and vaguely discussed in the NS patent. I can vaguely see/understand this system getting stronger with time until enough earth force redirected-directionally retrained to the problem area cause by pesky humans... I can also vaguely see/understand that depending on strength of pesky human device, large distances of reacting earth force may ultimately be involved. Wave machines (water) are interesting to me in these ways. electrical condensors are also interesting to me in these ways.
well, these are my wild thoughts for the day..... I'm sorry to diverge into abstracts lately but I cannot seem to get past physical properties / limitations of straight up induction coils. There are too many laws, equations, etc... that confine them. So in the case of Stubblefield, there has to be an external force involved here. I think once we understand this better, we should understand the coil constructions needed to start useful interactions.
jeanna, would any of your scope/other observations come into play here? you seem to be taking a look at earth aspects....
Thanks protonmom.
That link is easy to download
I am missing a whole lot of the pictures...Not all but kinda strange.
MW383,
I do not want to add too much because I really like your wild ideas.
I do however, want to remind you that whoever has written about the stubblefield coil/generator has not been able to reproduce it either.
To my knowledge, I have, to date--as seen here, achieved the highest readings from some of my NS coils... and they are in the millivolts.
Some guy named thrapp claims to have it but he won't tell you unless you pay a donation to his religion.
hmm... this approach let alone this use of religion is very contrary to my way, so forget it.
Please carry on.
I will jump in if you are doing something I did that was a dead end.
I might have a pic of a scope shot that shows the sea of energy we are tapping into, cuz I am not sure you have seen that.
jeanna
EDIT ADD
I located 2 pages which are good places to begin to read.
It will give an efficient catch up for some of the elements.
This is from Bill's thread first page:
I posted a couple of pics there and gave the details.
I continued to post there and gave more info...( But my research leading up to it is found on this thread.)
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4455.0 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4455.0)
This is from this thread but it is around the time I left it.
If you go up a little you will see my last posts before moving over which were charts of data and a lot of information I gathered to answer some of the same questions you are asking.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3500.1800 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3500.1800)
j
Quote from: jeanna on October 13, 2009, 03:47:13 PM
I do however, want to remind you that whoever has written about the stubblefield coil/generator has not been able to reproduce it either.
exactly, i am basically giving Stubblefield the benefit of the doubt here and assuming the patent office at the time was on the up and up. (patent office a debatable entity now adays in my opinion). third party accounts of this battery (some of which were family) also keep me interested.
Quote from: jeanna on October 13, 2009, 03:47:13 PM
To my knowledge, I have, to date--as seen here, achieved the highest readings from some of my NS coils... and they are in the millivolts.
I believe it. my own little contraption is definitely confined to its construction and electrochemistry. hence my temporary abandonment of this design aspect.
Quote from: jeanna on October 13, 2009, 03:47:13 PM
Some guy named thrapp claims to have it but he won't tell you unless you pay a donation to his religion.
hmm... this approach let alone this use of religion is very contrary to my way, so forget it.
agree. let's figure it out ourselves, give it away for free, and see how thrappy like this.
Thanks for the links. the coils you make look real nice!
I have contacted several wire manufacturers in regards to getting copper wire with water permeable cloth insulation. I will let you know if anything pans out of it. I did this because I have become frustrated in keeping things insulated. The method I first proposed is ok but only with thin materials. Even then it is not optimal. maybe I am too picky but I too like neat constructions. The faulty coil episode was definitely a short but not a direct one or consistant one. So who knows, maybe this new wire expedition will pan out.
my biggest question now is if we opposed the earth's magnetics, will we get a response. I am trying to think of an easy way to try this out.
MW383
If you check on Ebay, you can find vintage cloth covered wire. But be careful, as there is at least one seller who tries to sell it by the foot. Get the whole vintage spool! I am not sure if the one I looked at is still going or not, as I have been too busy to check, but it might be. And if not, there is always someone else with that stuff.
I think the best thing any of us can do is to make several versions of the NS coil and compare our own results...and then compare to each other's results.
Make a coil as per patent, and then make one as per MW383, and put them both in the ground. And then watch to see what happens. And if you want to make the probes, do that also. I don't know where you live, but winter is almost upon us, so we had better start digging the holes now before the ground gets too hard to work.
Jeanna,
Did you download the pdf file? I did, and then I printed off the pages I wanted. All my pictures came out fine. Amazingly, it did not even take too long to download...even with dial up.
Here are some old photos of my early experiments with the NS coil.
1.9 volts and 472 mA's. These are not millivolts but volts. (AC) Didn't you remember this Jeanna? (smile)
Bill
Quote from: MW383 on October 13, 2009, 04:34:43 PM
...
I have contacted several wire manufacturers in regards to getting copper wire with water permeable cloth insulation. I will let you know if anything pans out of it. I did this because I have become frustrated in keeping things insulated. The method I first proposed is ok but only with thin materials. Even then it is not optimal. maybe I am too picky but I too like neat constructions. The faulty coil episode was definitely a short but not a direct one or consistant one. So who knows, maybe this new wire expedition will pan out.
Quotemy biggest question now is if we opposed the earth's magnetics, will we get a response. I am trying to think of an easy way to try this out.
I have learned something from watching prof Lewin and today repeated by this terrific book.
Lenz said oppose and he was only talking about the direction.
It is used as resistance by everyone who refers to this here, it seema, and wiki and everybody else...
But Lenz was talking about the direction of the flow of electricity- not the reactance or resistance to it.
So if you apply a mag field in one direction, say up, the electric field will go in the opposite direction so down. There are many things that have been subtly changed or the emphasis has been changed. I am grateful for this book link.
@protonmom, I followed your second link and I am reading it online and I see all the pics. I will try again later.
I am also finding these old definitions very illuminating!
~~
anyway, I found that the modern facsimile of the old timey wire is first coated with varnish then covered in cloth.
In fact, I do not see it right now, but collins refers to silk being better not for any properties of silk, but because it allows you to get the wires closer to each other. (This was a big bone of contention here for a long time.)
I must say this is true.
Those that I made with silk as covering are still by far the best.
jeanna
The sources I have found for the cotton insulation are a little misleading. I found some for making old time radio restorations and guitar pick-ups, etc. This "new" old tube cotton actually has a teflon inner liner so it will not work for our coils. Just make sure to call and check it out before ordering.
If someone does find a source for real cotton (only) tubing, let me know.
Thanks,
Bill
PS
I think I posted this a long time ago but, think about cotton shoe laces. The kind on tennis shoes is really just a cotton tube that has been pressed flat. Now, I am sure this stuff is made on a big roll and cut off to the proper lengths needed. if we could find a source for this, it would be cheap and, be just what we need.
Quote from: Pirate88179 on October 13, 2009, 06:12:59 PM
Here are some old photos of my early experiments with the NS coil.
1.9 volts and 472 mA's. These are not millivolts but volts. (AC) Didn't you remember this Jeanna? (smile)
Bill
Yes, but I also remember that these diminished over time and could not be restored.
There seemed to be a certain level of galvanic reaction built in which worked for a while, but stopped.
I had milliamps in one too, but only for one or 2 days- and it was never to return.
I too got 0.97v the other day as shown on the EER, but I should have said I don't count what the dmm shows any more. I am so aware that it cannot see what the joule thief secondary can make, so I don't believe it on the EER either, since the earth oscillations are so fast, even the scope is unable to pick up a lot of it. (my scope, that is).
jeanna
Here are 2 screenshots adding to one sentence with what collins has to say about silk and why. I included the page number too.
Quote from: jeanna on October 13, 2009, 06:25:52 PM
Yes, but I also remember that these diminished over time and could not be restored.
There seemed to be a certain level of galvanic reaction built in which worked for a while, but stopped.
I had milliamps in one too, but only for one or 2 days- and it was never to return.
I too got 0.97v the other day as shown on the EER, but I should have said I don't count what the dmm shows any more. I am so aware that it cannot see what the joule thief secondary can make, so I don't believe it on the EER either, since the earth oscillations are so fast, even the scope is unable to pick up a lot of it. (my scope, that is).
jeanna
Good point.
Bill
jeanna,
good info on silk. it certainly makes sense that coils will be closer together thus more windings possible over a linear distance. i also like it because it also decreases the distance between the copper-iron voltaic couple.
glad you like the induction coil book. i am still reading it. if anything, maybe we can use the secondary coil construction technique listed in the book on a Stubblefield to improve this aspect of it.
Has anyone tried a bundled iron wire main core in a Stubblefield? I see this technique all over including in the Bedini motor. I reread the NS patent yet again and remain convinced we need to have the primary coil produce the best magnetic field possible.
Has anyone also tried using the sheet style condenser with a Stubblefield? It looks interesting to me. if anything maybe we can further improve action to the secondary. not sure how good it will work with low voltage Stubby though... charge is charge however so i wonder.
jeanna, what are your thoughts on directionality? I am still trying to come to grips with this one because I remain under the impression that magnetic fields are stronger when flow through a coil body is uni-directional. I am half tempted to make a Stubblefield that has 5 layers connected in parallel. Volts should always be say .75 - 1 in this electrochemistry no matter what we do with the coils. Parallel them and the fact there is bifilar effect in each layer should make a better magnetic field.
,MW
Quote from: MW383 on October 13, 2009, 07:00:28 PM
jeanna, what are your thoughts on directionality? I am still trying to come to grips with this one because I remain under the impression that magnetic fields are stronger when flow through a coil body is uni-directional. I am half tempted to make a Stubblefield that has 5 layers connected in parallel. Volts should always be say .75 - 1 in this electrochemistry no matter what we do with the coils. Parallel them and the fact there is bifilar effect in each layer should make a better magnetic field.
,MW
I'm gonna try the bundle soon.
I think it is a great idea. Collins is very clear about it's being much much better.
Quotemagnetic fields are stronger when flow through a coil body is uni-directional.
Well, it is, but the(magnetic) flow
must be changing in value to have any magnetic to electric effect.
As soon as the reactance is overcome the induction effect is lost and it is time to switch directions.
So, you need a fluctuating magnetic field to produce any electricity from an inductor coil = beyond a straight battery current..
The faster (sharper the changes) the better. The EER is showing from 22.7KHz on the whole wave, to 2.4MHz in the ripples, which is pretty fast.
But, you also need to match the field strength and timing with its size and number of turns so that the coil and its magnetic growth are just at the peak when you change direction.
We did a lot of this in what we called tuning the joule thief.
It was that we changed the resistor so that the changes were optimal.
When we got it right... wow pow!
Some differences with the EER are
1- the changing mag field is free and,
2- we are starting with the magnetic field and not making it.
I believe we need to find the right...?? ??
We also need a way to bring the amounts up.
It is possible that the chemical electricity part is a very smart way to increase the peaks of the magnetic field.
Do your 5 layer parallel. I am not too sure what I would predict, but maybe when you get something it will start some new ideas.
I even looked at wire yesterday.
I think I will make one more of these when I get a big spool of magwire.
I will sand off about 20 feet of varnish and use the first part of the wire covered with silk next to some annealed wire. When the varnished part starts I just won't need to cover it and it should be very close. I will use some welding rods for the core too.
I will cut most of them to the size of the spool but leave one long as a stake that can get stuck into the ground.
(Just thinking about making a bedini motor has given me these ideas.)
jeanna
( sorry for so many words!)
Quote from: jeanna on October 13, 2009, 07:49:11 PM
I'm gonna try the bundle soon. I think it is a great idea. Collins is very clear about it's being much much better.
Me too! My plans moving forward are to optimize magnetic field generation produced by Stubblefield's integral voltaic couple. There are design balances here that we need to establish. About the only way to do this is to start building variations and learn from them. Since Stubblefield states that aspects of the primary coil construction may be changed to suit, this optimization process should be relatively straight forward. So assuming a bundled iron core, some of the variables will be total formed diameter, diameter of each internal rod, #rods, and length. I am going to build my first core as follows (based on some info I have collected from successful builds by Wm. B. Eddy)
"composed of a bundle of No. 22 iron wire well annealed"
I am unsure about core diameter and length becuase Eddy has a design that seems optimized to the 110VDC he was applying to it. I may revert back to a scaled Stubblefield system based on patent and actual photographs of his units.
Applied to this core will be Stubblefield's bifilar voltaic couple windings of Fe and Cu. I am still trying to determine what AWG size I will use for these...
I might just stay with #16 because I have a supply of it already. I plan on winding each layer as individual entities for starters (each having their own start and end wires). This allows me to experiment with various wiring configurations of the primary coil (like parallel, series, or perhaps a combination) As far as number of layers, this will be achieved through successive addition of layers as to maximize flux through the core (somewhat dependant on what I can produce from voltaic aspects). The etch-a-sketch method will be used to actually look at the magnetic fields produced.
Goal#1 create best primary coil possible based on Stubblefield's voltaic couple and standard/optimized induction coil designs. Once perfected, add a mechanical set of points to the top and get self oscillating via movable contact being repulsed from top of iron core - combined with weak spring that forces contact back down.
Goal#2 create a secondary coil system optimized to the primary. (at least geometrically through use of slice method). Wiring games can also be played here such as series-parallel-combination of each.
Goal#3 determine if there are advantages with condensers.
Quote from: jeanna on October 13, 2009, 07:49:11 PM
But, you also need to match the field strength and timing with its size and number of turns so that the coil and its magnetic growth are just at the peak when you change direction.
Absolutely. I am under the assumption that we collapse the field just as it reaches its maximum flux. Cycling too fast would be wasteful on the primary end, cycling too slow would be wasteful on the secondary end.
Quote from: jeanna on October 13, 2009, 07:49:11 PM
When we got it right... wow pow!
I expect the exact same result with an optimized Stubblefield.
Quote from: jeanna on October 13, 2009, 07:49:11 PM
(Just thinking about making a bedini motor has given me these ideas.)
This is usually what happens to me; as in looking at other similar things and then applying them to the original.
Quote from: jeanna on October 13, 2009, 07:49:11 PM
( sorry for so many words!)
No aplogies necessary. The more we share ideas and hammer on this thing, the better it will get. I think we have discussed any number of things here in the past several days that should keep us in the experimentation business for quite a while!
On a side note...
I was reading the urban legend materials associated with this battery and certain things are mentioned. batteries located above quartz deposits a potential good thing. batteries having mild radiocative ores placed in their vicinities possibly used. and basically the voodoo subject of finding the right place to put one of these things (hot spots).
So using Google Maps and a magnetic field anomoly plugin I started poking around the US. I looked at my location in Wisconsin and it is a very dark blue on the scale ( a negative anomoly; whatever this means...). I looked at Murray Kentucky and it too was a darker blue. Then I looked at places with quartz mines (both in Arkansas and Colorado) both of these were very dark purple on the scale (a positive anomoly). Mildly radioactive ores are also located in Arkansas and these have stong positive anomolies. Just for kicks I put in Detroit, Michigan because of its immense underground salt deposits. This came up dark blue (extremely negative anomaly). Does it mean anything? I have no idea. I'm not real clear on what the magnetic survey people define as anomoly or what negative and positive actually mean. I'll find out though.
On a more serious note, I have started construction on a full sized battery. Am constructing iron core at the moment using bundled rod approach. Core diameter to be 2", core length to be 24". I have also heard back from a wire manufacturer I have been talking with in regards to cotton insulated variety. He is sending me samples of cotton directly over wire (no additional plastic layer like some cloth wires have). His material is water permeable so no problem here. There may be another issue though because he uses an adhesive in his manufacturing process. This adhesive is water soluble. I have no idea what it is composed of but am certain we do not want it in our system. Perhaps some runs through a dish washer will get rid of the stuff? I will keep everyone posted on what happens here. Who knows, maybe this will work. I am more than ready to stop this layered cloth silliness.
So I have been reading and experimenting in the past few days.
As far as experimenting, I have found best magnetic fields when multiple coil layers are all wired in parallel. This is probably due in most part to the resistance being less but I will let more qualified electrical wizards comment on this. Wiring in series (unidirectional) was less field strength, wiring in series (bidirectional) was last place in field strength.
I still believe that a strong magnetic coil is critical. Thus when I finish the large coil I am building, it will be fully tested in it's primary windings and have verified strong magnetic field before secondary is even considered. I am waiting for supposed cloth insulated wire samples so I am holding off construction just temporarily although a core is nearly complete at this time.
More reading thus improved understanding (I typically read and research heavily before application efforts)......
So like an induction coil that follows the 'right hand rule', the earth operates in exact same fashion. Magnetic portion horizontal / Electrical portion at a right angle to this thus vertical. Obviously we are all in the business of the attempted harvesting of this vertically inclined electricity.
We can always build a simple aluminum foil capacitor, place below ground, and then collect natural charges already eminating to the surface. This alone wouldn't be a lot of energy usable for large things but it does demonstrate that the earth operates inductively all by itself and per all established rules.
Stubblefield increased local magnetism through electromagnetic coil, earth energy responded accordingly and delivered up energy in some proportion to the increased magnetic field. And this is the game in a nutshell.
Further readings have taught me many things I did not know, of which I will be appying to future experiments and hopefully a finalized design construction. I am currently looking at a much different construction that could potentially solve a lot of little issues because of its static nature and improved locational aspects of components. So I have a double approach at moment; a Stubblefield in purist fashion, and this other thing which is, in principle, the same thing just a little different...
Hi MW383,
QuoteAs far as experimenting, I have found best magnetic fields when multiple coil layers are all wired in parallel. This is probably due in most part to the resistance being less but I will let more qualified electrical wizards comment on this. Wiring in series (unidirectional) was less field strength, wiring in series (bidirectional) was last place in field strength.
Your tests may have shown the exact right order of these things... however, the magnetic effect might be moving at the khz to Mhz levels and in that case, I think you could miss it, so please do not rule that one out.
jeanna
Jeanna,
This system will need a strong magnetic field not only to induce current into a secondary coil, but to also generate an earth response of electrical nature (the vertical component of the natural earth system) The primary coil I am building will eventually do this. In fact I will build and test primaries until I succeed. I am certain the first one will however..... I really could care less about the voltage as it will always be low in this electro-chemistry. The game will be amperage and this is a game I know I can win through construction. Construction that is hinted at (but not specifically described) in the NS patent.
As far as frequency goes, this will be a key factor in making the battery work well when in earth. Stubblefield was working in the low audio range. To me this means 20Hz through say several KHz. Obviously slower frequencies can be handled by various mechanical or magnetic make/break type devices. faster frequencies will require something solid state / electronic. Because of varied ground characteristics for each unique battery location (ranging from surface through depths into the thousands of feet), the frequency will be unique. Therefore one would plant the battery, vary frequency until the sweet spot is identified. There may be further adjustments necessary due to system gain of strength over time, and climatic variances.
Here is a picture of what I was talking about in prior posts.....
^
-------------------------------------------------------------- ground
l
---------------->--------------------->---------------------> natural magnetic field (2.5MHz?)
l
l
l
natural electical
component at right
angle to natural
magnetic field
There are other frequency things to consider and I suspect these were noted by Stubblefield at the very end of his life when he was living in the shack. Rest assured I am on the case here too. Actually I am further with this subject than Stubblefield's battery right now.... but a new thread should be started for this topic. I may do this after I am successful with the battery project.
So make a good magnetic field and pulse it just right and allow the earth to do the rest because as stated previously, it will react in order to seek equilibrium.
Happy experimenting !!!
Other things to consider:
air based energies
l
l
l
l
(cancellation zone) near or at ground level.
l
l
l
l
ground based energies
Stubblefield was reported to have buried his earth batteries underneath old oak trees. This is interesting to me because a tree lives in both air energy and ground energy environments. I will have to think further on this in regards to effects on an earth battery..... There are some other significant aspects here that I am currently researching.
Stubblefield also demonstrated his devices in Washington, DC in the Potomac River which has no trees so it still works without them. There is a photo of that somewhere either here, or on my topic. Actually, that was the first ship to shore communication by voice in World history. (He was demonstrating his telephone system which really was a cell phone system)
Bill
In a bundled iron core, is it ok to use paint as a method of dielectric insulation of the individual strands? I read somewhere about nailpolish but this seems like a lot of effort as there will be many strands in my core....
@mw383,
Probably, but I do not see how it would be easier to paint it.
Nail polish dries in minutes and paint in hours or days.
Welding rods are covered in copper.
They are perfect soft iron.
(I keep thinking we can use the copper in this, but anyway)
welding rods are a good source for soft iron.
Maybe a short experiment would inform you and us as well.
Paint one and nail polish another and check for insulation value and drying time etc.
I would certainly appreciate knowing this by experiment... especially if you do it for me! ;D
jeanna
Quote from: jeanna on October 21, 2009, 02:21:04 PM
@mw383,
I would certainly appreciate knowing this by experiment... especially if you do it for me! ;D
jeanna
lol! that's pretty good. I will of course share whatever I come up with. On another note I have been playing with high frequency inductive fields 25KHz-50KHz. I am beginning to understand that frequency is critical to the mission.
:)Hello everone, Can someone give me instructions to build only a simple small Stubblefield Earth battery, the one that you wind copper wire around a iron pipe etc. and you put it in the ground, and the volt/current suppose to build up or something !
One that produces at least 20 ma+ please...
Just a simple small one, so i can then start making a bigger one after experimenting with a small one, thanks !
I do not mean to offend you, freepow, but if you really want to learn how to make a Stubblefield earth "battery" then go to page 1 and start reading, and continue until you are done. You will learn all the mistakes others have made, and you will learn how to make a working model that you can then develop into something bigger. You seem to want to learn, but there are no shortcuts. Sorry. Someone MIGHT tell you how he made his earth probe, but unless you go back and read the posts...all of them...you will miss out on a lot. Your choice, of course.
Quote from: freepow on October 22, 2009, 08:18:37 AM
:)Hello everone, Can someone give me instructions to build only a simple small Stubblefield Earth battery, the one that you wind copper wire around a iron pipe etc. and you put it in the ground, and the volt/current suppose to build up or something !
One that produces at least 20 ma+ please...
Just a simple small one, so i can then start making a bigger one after experimenting with a small one, thanks !
We worked on that for a long time.
I cannot give you the recipe.
The patent US#600,457 is somewhere here and it describes it pretty well.
Use this site to get a copy of it
http://www.pat2pdf.org/ (http://www.pat2pdf.org/)
It is 2 wires -1 copper and 1 iron separated by a cloth, wrapped on a soft iron core.
Soft means that it drops its magnetization immediately when the magnetic influence is gone.
I don't think any of us were able to be sure we had soft iron. (That may have been our only problem.
Welding rods are soft.
I think if you forge some iron and hit the end to a point and let it cool slowly you will have a soft iron stake.
I think the date for joe's introduction which included the patent is around feb of 2008, so you could read a few pages from around then.
no freepow lunch yet... sorry ;)
jeanna
Quick update to previous winding experiments. Ranking of magnetic field strength better clarified.
1) multiple layers : individual but all wired parallel
2) multiple layers : all one winding ; down-up-down-etc... same clockwise (or counter clockwise turn direction) maintained for each layer. Just pick one and stay consistent.
3) multiple layers : all one winding ; down-external lead back up-down-etc... This is wasteful when compared to #2 because of added resistance. It also makes a messy construction.
4) multiple layers ; all one winding ; down-up-down-etc... alternate winding direction clockwise-counter clockwise-clockwise-etc... Worst thing you can do because of cancellations occurring.
So bottom line is stick with universal wind direction. There is also the option for parallelism but requires some planning to make it efficient. In the Stubblefield outlined construction, this will not work very well if one is after both maximum efficiency and a clean construction. One can still parallelize and keep clean construction but it would result in added resistance and thus voltaic inefficiencies.
Different constructions can be accomplished which can 100% optimize parallelism but this will have to wait until I get Stubblefield's version working first.
The nice thing about original construction is that magnetic field is present in the primary windings due to the iron wire. A flux path from core through iron windings also probably exists. So it would seem that Stubblefield was making best possible use of an otherwise weak voltaic system at least when it came down to magnetic field creation.
Cloth wire update. I have recieved samples of both 16 and 18ga cotton covered wires. Bottom line = they will work perfectly. I have asked manufacturer to quote 16ga bare copper wire covered in cotton. I was told to prepare for higher cost and minimum order quantities though because this is not a standard configuration for them. Preliminary estimate on cost is hurtful....$0.50/ft. Maybe this can improve when official quote generated. On the plus side, I did create some windings with cotton wire sample and bare iron, the result was a 100% totally clean construction. Vastly superior to the b-s I was doing before. Winding is also super easy and fast to do. The adhesive used was nothing like I was expecting. It is more of a weak starch that blanches right out when made wet. No integrity loss to the cotton noted by doing this.
Today I will be investigating various experiments in process outside. Wild and crazy stuff I will report on at some other time.
@all:
I think I have found a source for both cotton and silk tubing that is just the right size for our wires. I will let you know as soon as it gets in.
So I just returned from checking on some of the outdoor stuff. Most of what I am doing out there currently is non-Stubblefield or earth battery related. I plan on possibly starting a new thread for this stuff as it is fairly half baked in nature.
Anyway, I checked on some of my original pipe batteries I put in several weeks ago when I started this little earth battery adventure. Obviously the copper pipe - zinc nail deal is fairly low tech compared to a Stubblefield. So in measuring DCV it is 0.75. There is a measureable ACV of 1.5. So obviously there is some frequency at play here. It also seems sensible that DC would be 1/2 of AC because I am only seeing 1/2 the waveform with this measurement. Unfortunately I did not have my frequency measuring multimeter so could not see what it actually was. It seems to be there none the less.
So what is the deal here and what similar measurements have others observed here? Have any conclusions been made?
In checking my original single layer Stubblefield, it was essentially a goner. We have had rains for weeks now and the original paper towel insulation strategy didn't make it. I didn't think it would but put it in the ground anyway. The iron windings on the battery were absolutely and significantly rusted. I almost tend to think that if one of these batteries was sitting idle for extended periods that this would always happen to the iron. I wouldn't expect an issue if current were flowing on a constant basis. Has anyone pulled up long term Stubblefields out of the ground and looked at iron windings?
I am now resuming some indoor experiments in preperation for the official Stubblefield full scale unit I am in process on.
In regards to core, I used 16ga annealed wire pieces, straightened them out, hung them all in the air by a piece of horizontal tape, and spray painted them. It was a 2 minute affair. Once dried overnight, removed each piece from the tape, reversed vertically and painted just the bottoms (that were in contact with tape for 1st painting operation).
I will get bundled and take to work for official diaelectric measurements. There is no way in hell there will be electrical contact between these rods that have been painted provided I am careful during bundling process.
Protonmom, I am interested in costing for your wire source. My source has the right stuff but is looking to be quite expensive.
Next question; has anyone had success with oscillating the primary coil on their Stubblefield batteries? I'll have a jim-dandy full sized battery built soon but it will be useless if I can't pulse the magnetic field (via primary activation).
So has anyone thought about how Stubblefield's batteries picked up the extra power? Accounts state that the batteries in a static state were essentially 1 watt. This is a believable number based on all of our own replications. Yet in operation, this 1 watt increased in magnitudes according to the urban legend lore. Legend's also state that slightly higher voltages reported in Cu-Fe system itself. This leads me to believe that earth energy entering his system was definitely getting in through the voltaics. This is cool because with water being a near useless electrolyte, any additional help is appreciated. Voltage should top out due to the chemistry but amperage would be wide open to increase limited by wire size and more than likely related to how much magnetic field present.
Let's here some other theories here.
Additionally - think about magnetic field aspects. Diagram shows aligned iron windings from core out to secondary. Would this not be a more organized flux path than something wild wound in which iron's did not match up? I once stated to alternate Fe to Copper from core outwards. I made this from an electrochemical standpoint. I am thinking this to be incorrect now and that keeping everything aligned (iron) has a purpose. This will be a challenge to execute but I am going to do precisely this on my in process full scale unit.
Let's here some theories here too.
Quote from: jeanna on October 22, 2009, 06:45:57 PM
We worked on that for a long time.
I cannot give you the recipe.
The patent US#600,457 is somewhere here and it describes it pretty well.
Use this site to get a copy of it
http://www.pat2pdf.org/ (http://www.pat2pdf.org/)
It is 2 wires -1 copper and 1 iron separated by a cloth, wrapped on a soft iron core.
Soft means that it drops its magnetization immediately when the magnetic influence is gone.
I don't think any of us were able to be sure we had soft iron. (That may have been our only problem.
Welding rods are soft.I think if you forge some iron and hit the end to a point and let it cool slowly you will have a soft iron stake.
I think the date for joe's introduction which included the patent is around feb of 2008, so you could read a few pages from around then.
no freepow lunch yet... sorry ;)
jeanna
Jeanna,
I have been reading this forum for some time now, but I still haven't caught up to page 273 yet. LOL! When I read your post, I was just curious if anyone had tried a piece of structural rebar yet. It is widely available, (Home Depot, Lowes, etc.) and I believe it is about as soft as any Iron rod could be. It's just a suggestion, and might have already been mentioned before, and if so, I apologize.
For now I will go back to reading, and hopefully I can contribute something meaningful when I catch up. At the pace I am going, it will be a while. LOL!
From what I have read, you guys are doing a great job working through the details. Good luck, and I hope I can join you on your quest soon.
Take Care,
Jimmy
Quote from: bigred262626 on October 25, 2009, 03:10:25 PM
... I was just curious if anyone had tried a piece of structural rebar yet. It is widely available, (Home Depot, Lowes, etc.) and I believe it is about as soft as any Iron rod could be.
Take Care,
Jimmy
Hi bigred,
First may I say
WELCOMEI do not think anyone has used rebar. Unless, maybe protonmom has. I forget now.
I tried a very plain stake before I knew what soft iron meant , but it is not as soft as rebar.
The only real drawback to rebar is that it has ridges which would serve disserve to direct the first layer of wire to follow the ridges.
I have a piece of rebar, ( and I also have a piece of weldable iron but that was no better than the spike.) I agree with you and if you can get around the ridges or even if you cannot, please give it a try and report.
I am leaning towards the welding rods because even though they have copper around them, they are soft with a smooth surface.
It is funny how much that was basic in 1900 has been replaced, effectively eliminating the plain and basic.
jeanna
A word about the rebar. I checked into using that in the early days. What I found, at least in the local supply places like Lowes and Home Depot, was that there was not all that much iron in them. I had my trusty large neo mag with me and tested various materials. The magnet stuck to the rebar to be sure but could be removed very easily as if it were a weak refrigerator magnet, maybe even weaker attraction.
When I tested those galvanized 12" long spikes, it took both hands to remove the neo so I knew the iron content was high. That is what I ended up using.
But, as Jeanna has pointed out, just because my spikes had a high iron content does not make them soft iron. There is no reason they would make those from soft iron so I doubt they are.
Hans had said long ago that you can find soft iron cores in transformer coils because it gives up its magnetized state very quickly (Like Jeanna pointed out) and therefore can switch on and off (for lack of better terms) faster. So, maybe we need to check for large transformer coils or, google soft iron but, google might confuse the word "soft" to mean lack of hardness which has nothing to do with the properties we are seeking, at least to my understanding.
Jeanna may be right about our cores being the reason we did not have the success that Mr. Stubblefield was able to achieve.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on October 25, 2009, 03:46:45 PM
A word about the rebar. I checked into using that in the early days. What I found, at least in the local supply places like Lowes and Home Depot, was that there was not all that much iron in them. I had my trusty large neo mag with me and tested various materials. The magnet stuck to the rebar to be sure but could be removed very easily as if it were a weak refrigerator magnet, maybe even weaker attraction.
When I tested those galvanized 12" long spikes, it took both hands to remove the neo so I knew the iron content was high. That is what I ended up using.
But, as Jeanna has pointed out, just because my spikes had a high iron content does not make them soft iron. There is no reason they would make those from soft iron so I doubt they are.
Hans had said long ago that you can find soft iron cores in transformer coils because it gives up its magnetized state very quickly (Like Jeanna pointed out) and therefore can switch on and off (for lack of better terms) faster. So, maybe we need to check for large transformer coils or, google soft iron but, google might confuse the word "soft" to mean lack of hardness which has nothing to do with the properties we are seeking, at least to my understanding.
Jeanna may be right about our cores being the reason we did not have the success that Mr. Stubblefield was able to achieve.
Bill
Hello Bill,
I have watched all your you tube vids, and I admire your work.
If the result is to catch magnetic fluctuations, how about using a Ferrite rod? (http://cgi.ebay.com/Large-balun-ferrite-rods-10x200mm-Lot-of-4_W0QQitemZ380169451474QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5883dd77d2 ) Wouldn't it give the Iron like quality's, without the residual magnetic problem? Just a thought.
Take care,
Jimmy
Quote from: bigred262626 on October 25, 2009, 05:45:09 PM
Hello Bill,
I have watched all your you tube vids, and I admire your work.
If the result is to catch magnetic fluctuations, how about using a Ferrite rod? (http://cgi.ebay.com/Large-balun-ferrite-rods-10x200mm-Lot-of-4_W0QQitemZ380169451474QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5883dd77d2 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Large-balun-ferrite-rods-10x200mm-Lot-of-4_W0QQitemZ380169451474QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5883dd77d2) ) Wouldn't it give the Iron like quality's, without the residual magnetic problem? Just a thought.
Take care,
Jimmy
Jimmy:
Thank you.
Hey, this is a good idea here. Yes, this is exactly why ferrite is used for cores and toroids. Stubblefield did not have access to ferrite back then. But, as Jeanna said, what was very common and used all the time was soft iron. So now we here in the future do not have that as a common material but, as you so wonderfully pointed out, we do have ferrite, which may actually be better!
Great idea man, I wish I had thought of it. What does everyone think about this possibility?
Bill
The interception of natural earth magnetics and potential frequency of has been a large source of my latest outdoor experiments of late. Systems have been constructed and some interesting results observed. Ferrite an interesting idea too. As stated previously I have been achieving some interesting results in this area along a different approach.
In regards to soft iron, I think it is time for me to go out into my old dairy barn and grab some long carriage bolts I have out there. Barn is pre-1900 along with these bolts. Bolts I have range in size but are typically 1/2" OD by 12" long which is good enough to construct a test coil with. Regarding cotton covered copper wires; order placed. So as far as historical materials; between pre-1900 bolt and cotton covered copper wire, things are getting more antique by the minute. I do have some very old iron wire out in barn as well but I do not know if it will be enough for a decent sized coil, I'll check when returning home. Basically it is very old electric fence material, probably pre-1940's based on dating of the things it is attached to. All of this stuff was saved during recent restoration efforts being done to this building. I'll play around and see what transpires. Chances are high that there will be little interest to this audience but to satsify my own curiosity I will proceed.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In reviewing some figures - 33 comes up for 'this' geographic. The question is "x". as in 33/x. Is x = 33? This needs to be answered. So I now introduce variable "t". "t" will be a decreasing value that is allowed for the measurement process. The measurement process will then determine the unknown "x". only p m will pass
QuoteWhat does everyone think about this possibility?
It sounds really possible.
I think I will try welding rods first.
I actually have a ferrite stick, but it is extremely low permeability high flux, and I do not think I will be winding a stubblefield on it just to see.
In fact I bought it at the size that it is in the hopes that it would fit inside the straw I used for some of my non galvanic stubblefield coils. (it turned out to be too fat. aargh!)
I am so glad there are fresh ideas here.
Keep em coming guys!
thank you,
jeanna
@MW383,
Quote from: MW383 on October 26, 2009, 11:12:00 AM
The interception of natural earth magnetics and potential frequency of has been a large source of my latest outdoor experiments of late. Systems have been constructed and some interesting results observed. Ferrite an interesting idea too. As stated previously I have been achieving some interesting results in this area along a different approach.
In regards to soft iron, I think it is time for me to go out into my old dairy barn and grab some long carriage bolts I have out there. Barn is pre-1900 along with these bolts. Bolts I have range in size but are typically 1/2" OD by 12" long which is good enough to construct a test coil with. Regarding cotton covered copper wires; order placed. So as far as historical materials; between pre-1900 bolt and cotton covered copper wire, things are getting more antique by the minute. I do have some very old iron wire out in barn as well but I do not know if it will be enough for a decent sized coil, I'll check when returning home. Basically it is very old electric fence material, probably pre-1940's based on dating of the things it is attached to. All of this stuff was saved during recent restoration efforts being done to this building. I'll play around and see what transpires. Chances are high that there will be little interest to this audience but to satsify my own curiosity I will proceed.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In reviewing some figures - 33 comes up for 'this' geographic. The question is "x". as in 33/x. Is x = 33? This needs to be answered. So I now introduce variable "t". "t" will be a decreasing value that is allowed for the measurement process. The measurement process will then determine the unknown "x". only p m will pass
I was very interested to read you have placed an order for some cotton covered wire, would you mind if I ask how much wire you ordered and the cost? as you made reference it was 0.50 a foot in a previous post, it could be expensive, mabe they will sell you a full roll, works out less in the long run.
I agree with you implying going bigger may be better, I have held a hunch for a while about sizes.
Smaller bolts produce smaller magnetic effects whilst larger bolts produce larger magnetic effects.
So, I think, using bigger diameter bolts and wire will make it easier to make a breakthrough, once this is achieved, then its a matter of making it smaller until it ceases to operate.
I agree with you about this, that the magnetic fields interact with each other, I also know that if you have a single iron wire it has its own very weak magnetic field, when the iron wire is wound, every iron turn, interacts with the turn next to it, also to the turn below it and the turn above it, it also stands to reason when the current stops flowing the collapse of the magnetic field produces a EMF (force) the pulce rebound sets up a current flow in the copper wire turns.
I have some iron plastic coated wire outside I found at the local dump, about time I put it to good useage, got some 1" diameter bolts to wind it all on, this thing I want to make is going to be big, siiii.
@freepow,
I got your email, TA muchly, sent you a reply. ;)
@Jimmy
Nice to see you here.
@all, my LED is still lit up from my EBC experiment, hurts the eyes lol tomorrow is a new day, for experiments.
jim
I dont know if this info is important or not but NS lived west of a mountain range that is rich in zinc. His location was rich in coal bordering the mountain range.
There is also a good bit of quartz. The quartz is the pink type as if there is some iron oxide in it. at first i thought it was just dirty with red clay but it is iron oxide. The entire region of this part of the country contains what would make a battery. If at the time period NS was developing his EB there was a lot of rain for a couple years. Maybe he was just tapping a natural battery. I dont know how to check on the rain fall for the time period. Where I moved to they are just coming out of a 4 yr drought. When it rains it rains very hard and there is not much soil for it to soak into along this mountain range. The zinc in the rock beds of the rivers and streams stains the rocks black. With a little bit of elbo grease and a wire brush the rocks are white under the black coating like white marble. At least along look out mountain part of the range. The cavern operators told me the zinc runs in vanes in the fractures of the mountains. Oak trees and Pine trees are the dominant trees which are very acidic in the sense that their leaves and sap leave the soil very acidic as well as the run off. Just a first hand observation I wanted to pass on.
Quote from: Doug1 on October 27, 2009, 07:49:48 AM
I dont know if this info is important or not but NS lived west of a mountain range that is rich in zinc. His location was rich in coal bordering the mountain range.
There is also a good bit of quartz. The quartz is the pink type as if there is some iron oxide in it. at first i thought it was just dirty with red clay but it is iron oxide. The entire region of this part of the country contains what would make a battery. If at the time period NS was developing his EB there was a lot of rain for a couple years. Maybe he was just tapping a natural battery. I dont know how to check on the rain fall for the time period. Where I moved to they are just coming out of a 4 yr drought. When it rains it rains very hard and there is not much soil for it to soak into along this mountain range. The zinc in the rock beds of the rivers and streams stains the rocks black. With a little bit of elbo grease and a wire brush the rocks are white under the black coating like white marble. At least along look out mountain part of the range. The cavern operators told me the zinc runs in vanes in the fractures of the mountains. Oak trees and Pine trees are the dominant trees which are very acidic in the sense that their leaves and sap leave the soil very acidic as well as the run off. Just a first hand observation I wanted to pass on.
Just for the record, I live about 120 miles east of Stubblefield's old farm (Murry, KY) and there are no mountains at all between Murry and my town of Bowling Green. It is basically flat and all of the coal country is a long way off to the north east of Murry. Others can check Google Earth on this if they like.
As a former geology major in college, I can tell you that this entire area is loaded with limestone bedrock. It is everywhere and that is the reason there are so many caves in this region. (Mammoth cave, world's longest cave, is 25 miles to the north from me) I never heard of any zinc in this area at all, but that does not mean it is not here.
I agree with you about the clay, the soil in this area is loaded with it and a good bit of it is red which I would agree means high iron content. Pink quartz is pink due to trace amounts of phosphate or aluminum. Rose quartz is pink due to trace amounts of titanium, iron or manganese. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartz)) I have seen very little pink quartz in my area but there may be more to my west, I don't know.
I still believe NS's devices worked independent of local conditions because he put on successful demonstrations in Washington and Philly. This is my opinion.
Bill
I have an idea I have been mulling over for a little while. I may even have mentioned it, but Jim's reply jogged it awake again.
My next stubblefield coil will have plastic or varnish covering the whole thing, on both wires... - up until the last layer which will have the copper wire made bare then covered with cloth.
This should give enough galvanic influence to all the wire, since that aspect, although surely is necessary, is not a very big player in this coil.
Therefore a big galvanic current is not likely to be needed.
Then the remaining interior of the coil can be very long and wound bifilar with lots of iron wire to give the rest of the multiple effects that we should be getting.
I will first try all the suggestions from tishatang, though and not even that for a while. My handyman friend called and needs work so, on sunny days, I will be doing (d)home improvements. ;)
I just wanted to remember to say my idea to all those who are actively building NS coils.
thank you,
jeanna
Jeanna:
Man, if you are correct that would sure simplify winding these things. I hope for all of us that this works.
If not, we now have a supplier of cotton covered wire which would also make things waaaay easier too. As soon as I get the time, and a little money, I want to try this. It has been a while since I tried an NS coil.
Bill
Hi guys once I saw on internet an aluminium rod with insulation and coil wire winded with it.
As I remember this gave alot of voltage.
One have to experiment with this to verify.
Thanks
The specific content or alloy composition of the iron used may be critical. A Spectrometer test of a genuine NS coil should be taken to find out its properties. Pure iron is soft. This may make a big difference on how the iron was processed. The use of "iron" rebar should not be used. Rebar itself is steel.
Pirate mentioned NS did this in different locations. If the geology was similar then it may still make a difference on how it works. Another question I have is the type of wire used for the loads. Were both wires copper or one copper for + and one iron for - coming off the NS coil to the load. Really cant see the iron wire being used at only 17% conductivity.
Quote from: Pirate88179 on October 27, 2009, 02:01:01 PM
Jeanna:
Man, if you are correct that would sure simplify winding these things. I hope for all of us that this works.
...
Yeah,
It sounds so much easier I can even imagine going for #13... maybe it would be the lucky number.
@IotaYodi,
Trouble is nobody has ever seen a real stubblefield coil in the flesh...I think. There were random things in pics in boxes but in the museum I think there is nothing. I think it was alcanadian that went there, wasn't it?
I am sorry to hear rebar is not plain iron. I sure thought it was the way it rusts so thoroughly and well. ;)
I may write an email to the high school metals teacher who taught me some welding and ask him about a source for soft iron.
I know that I made some cast hooks for a door and they are not able to cause a compass to respond to them after I was finished. The teacher kind of knew this would be true..
I must be tired... all my sentences are circles!
@Bill, I got my magnets today. I gotta try n see.
jeanna
@Jeanna,
When you contact your metals teacher, ask what happens to the iron, when a iron bar is heated up in a hot flame, I think the metal becomes weaker, but, does it soak up magnetism better?
Remember that huge iron ring I found ages ago, it had been extreamly hot, probably red hot as it had turned grey in colour, and it rusts very quickly indeed, something changed in the metal when a certain temperature was exceeded.
jim
@All,
hooo boy oh boy, I have decided at looooooong last to make my stubblefield coil, so I hunted around in my shed, found my longish bolts (450mm long x 25mm wide shaft), then I realised, to wind this thing I will need to make my stubblefield winder, so here is what is going to happen in a nut shell.
Modify an old exercise machine, cut it up and re-weld it in a different configuration, add a reduction pully gear set, and drive the whole shebang with a motor, DC or AC, not sure at this point in time.
I saw the big plastic wheel/cover has a flat 1" wide edge all the way around, so I just might fit a fan belt there, makes sence to use what is there.
Mount the SW (Stubblefield Winder) onto a steel table top (got to make it), then fit controls to it (which I will need to make) and Bobs yur Unkle. ;D
After you all enjoy the pickies and video, let me know what your opinions are, how I should power this thingie.
jim
bicycle it? ;D ;D
jeanna
(sorry, I haven't made this new system able to see those 3g's yet.)
I just tried to post another jpg but something went wonky, OK will try again.
I put a tape meassure, 9volt battery and a Mug next to the Bolts to show comparrison between them.
I also bought some giant biscutt cutters to make the ends of the stubblefield coils, I will soon scratch of fthe shiny red paint ha ha.
I found my fan belts (V belts) and a reduction pulley, dont know what motor to use to drive it with.
jim
@all,
Quote from: jeanna on October 28, 2009, 01:03:02 AM
bicycle it? ;D ;D
jeanna
(sorry, I haven't made this new system able to see those 3g's yet.)
That's the way Jeanna, nice to know there is a volunter in the camp, ha ha.
Try googling .3gp and unix or puppy, see if this will show up a driver for it.
Might take a looksie later myself.
jim
My biscutt cutter below
@Jeanna,
Here are several 3gp players for the MAC, take your pik. :D
http://www.downloadatoz.com/3gp-player/3gp-player-for-mac.php
Hope this helps.
jim
How much volts and amps this stubblefield battery produced?
Anyone can tell me please?
Thanks
guruji:
Enough for Stubblefield to run the telephone system of Murry, Kentucky, light his farm and heat his home. We, of course, did not achieve these kinds of results...yet.
Tariel Kapanadze, using a somewhat related but different approach, is achieving 100 kw output thus far. (See our topic on him and his work for more info)
Some of us are gearing up to give it a go once again to see what we can do. Join us here, it should be fun.
Bill
@guruji,
I agree with Bill.
join us and we can all accomplish this together.
I want to repeat the part where the farm he powered did not have a dishwasher dvd player and hair driers or washing machine in it.
So, powering his farm might be a little less heavy on the volts and amps than we use today.
In fact, in the mid 1900's people used way less than we do now and they did have all those things (not the dvd) even though tubes used a lot more amps than transistors do.
@jim,
I am using the acer with ubuntu on overunity these days. I will try again, but last time I didn't see 3g on the ubuntu list.
I totally switched my overunity use to an acer booting ubuntu. I got tired of seeing that the last place I uploaded from was my documents folder. (It never is cuz on a mac you do not have to store your data in a documents folder.) It made me laugh... I have some old knitting patterns and a random pic or 2 in there. I hope someone likes knitting! ;D
@All,
In the back of my mind I am becoming more and more convinced that the only reason we use and need to count amps is because we use such incredibly low volts at an astoundingly low frequency.
At these rates high amps is really the only way to power anything.
I am further thinking that we are going to need to invent a way to use the high frequency high volts for the toaster and other things we are using amps for.
Thanks to tesla the lights are already invented. Now, what did Mr. Stubblefield actually do??
To me that is just more fun.
@ guruji
The question we would all like answered.
Quote from: guruji on October 28, 2009, 04:47:28 PM
How much volts and amps this stubblefield battery produced?
Anyone can tell me please?
Thanks
Short answer is, in this present day, the answer is NO.
No-one alive today has been able to make it work the way Stubblefield was able to do.
This does not meen to say it will never be done, but, if you think about this a moment, Stubblefield was able to run his household appliances with his invention, I believe the voltage in his part of the world was 120volts or so, how much wattage, well that depends on the cross sectional area of the wire he was using, the thicker the wire, the more amperage is avaliable, so since we have not seen any originals, we simply dont know for sure.
@All,
I have been busy with my cut off wheel and hacksaw, turning a bit of gear into something it was never designed for, ohhhh I love it.
@Bill,
I enjoyed the conversation yesterday morning with you.
@freepow
It was great speaking to you last night for the first time too.
What is electricme doing? being destructive, eeeee ha.
jim
Jeanna:
Just a thought. High freq. and high volts would almost describe our microwave ovens. Really high freq. and fairly high volts due to the MOT. I don't think they do toast well though, ha ha. (Very good for reviving stale bread and rolls.)
I saw a Youtube video of a toaster that runs off a USB port in a laptop. (It was a product review) That can't take too many amps to run I would not think. Maybe we should try playing with one of those.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on October 28, 2009, 11:52:37 PM
.... describe our microwave ovens. Really high freq. and fairly high volts due to the MOT.
Oh yes, this is right!
And the ha*rp is a microwave heater according to Nick Begich.
So, it does sound very plausible, then.
QuoteI saw a Youtube video of a toaster that runs off a USB port in a laptop. ... That can't take too many amps to run I would not think.
Wow... that is pretty amazing. That was all dc, but still going in the right direction with low amps.
QuoteMaybe we should try playing with one of those.
I keep finding my thoughts are turning to immersion heaters.
These are a very thick coil of copper or aluminum wire made into about 7 or 8 turns at 1 inch diameter with each end connecting to one plug end. (fused probably too.)
My mother always had one when we went on a skiing vacation so she could make hot tea in the hotel room. You had to be very careful to only plug it in after the coil was immersed in the water.
All I can ever find is that they need alternating current to make the center get hot.
Of course we know eddy currents make heat. But unless immersed these are air core.
So, my thoughts keep wondering if we could make one of these that runs off a joule thief secondary.
Could the center (of the induction heater where the eddy currents are) can get hot enough to give off a continuous high amount of heat which could then be transferred to heat water hmm or maybe toast? ;D etc.
And of course, in his later years did Nathan Stubblefield make heat enough to cook with his?
Thank you, Bill,
jeanna
Regarding induction heating....
I have 1st hand knowledge of these and do play with commercial units of this nature. Basically they take an alternating current and throw into a pancake coil. The circuitry is complex but along fundamental lines that Tishatang discusses. These are high frequency devices 25-50Khz. Assuming proper cookware placed on them (something ferrous), the circuit senses current draw on particular piece of cookware and applies current to the coil accordingly. Circuit is tuned from impedance aspect to recognize ferrous cookwares. I have heard that they can be tuned for other materials such as aluminum but this is not done in the industry as of yet.
I have buried a pancake coil and ran at a 400w power level. Frequency decreases as power increases with these things. It is my craziest experiment so far. The problem here is that I believe 25K frequency way too high. The other problem I have is in tricking the circuit into thinking it has a piece of cookware on it because if it doesn't sense cookware, it will not operate. I got around this eventually. I have noted that as long as I have a field running, it decreases in frequency the further you move away from coil. So indeed I can have frequencies below 10Hz at certain distances away from the coil. This is still not an ideal experiement though but I will post any interesting findings I may come up with.
As you move up the frequency scale you get to devices like microwaves. I worked on designing a combination microwave / convection oven once. It was a nasty combination because you cooked food placed in it internally via the microwaves and used the convected heat for browning purposes. We used to take frozen pizzas and cook them perfectly inside and out in 2.5 minutes. And that was from a cold start of the cooking unit. Thinking back though, I hate microwaves because no matter how much faraday type caging is done, I can physically feel them whenever I am near them. This is the same reason I hate commercial induction cookers, I feel them too.
MW383,
I know what you mean about feeling these things.
Now, are they not using a standard wall outlet and transforming it to higher voltage?
If so, that means to me that the wave is still a sine wave, and the rate of change is slow. (which means shape not really speed.)
A straight up then straight down spike is what we want.
You won't feel a bad feeling from that either!
So, can this kind of thing make a ferrous coil get hot enough to cook?
Or, I don't care aluminum would be ok too, cuz you can use tankless hot water heat transfer once you get the heat.
I have wanted to try this for a while, you can tell.
Do you still have this set up? If you do, I guess you haven't made a joule thief yet... darn! always something! ;D
thanks,
jeanna
Quote from: jeanna on October 29, 2009, 04:38:40 PM
Now, are they not using a standard wall outlet and transforming it to higher voltage?
I will get back to you on exact circuit function. I am under the impression that the main portion of the circuit is supplied by 18VDC after conversion from higher AC input. I also know that there is ultimately an alternating current going into the core. What happens in between I will have to check.
Quote from: jeanna on October 29, 2009, 04:38:40 PM
A straight up then straight down spike is what we want.
Circuit above does have a resonance circuit within it but I have to get the details. From what I know it switches at a zero point (not sure if voltage or current being = to 0) Rumor has it we are getting an oscilliscope. When we do you can be sure I will be checking out waveforms.
Quote from: jeanna on October 29, 2009, 04:38:40 PM
So, can this kind of thing make a ferrous coil get hot enough to cook?
For general cooking in the kitchen it works fairly well. It is 90% efficient which is above standard resistive heating systems and also above gas based systems. Through controls, you have essentially 100 unique power increments so if making candy, an omelette or something tricky like this, then induction would give precise control of the process. Inexpensive consumer units can be had for less than $100 (single hobb). These are generally of very poor quality and have a high failure rate. The ones we make at work are for commercial cooking industry and are way more rugged.
For screwing around, the pancake coil can be dumped and replaced by tubular coil (like we are familiar with). In this case an induction cooker drawing only 100watts @ 120VAC, will take a piece of ferrous metal up to 800F. Run 1000watts and the metal will glow bright red. One must be careful when swapping coils like this because the induction circuits very complex. One needs to stay within a few general parameters otherwise you will most likely ruin the unit. There are a few youtube videos where people have hacked them to these effects. I reproduced their results quite easily. Heating the end of a screwdriver to cherry red not my bag but this method of heating metal very popular in industry for quite some time now. I have something much cooler in plan...
Coil still in the ground. Basically I sealed it within a vacuum seal bag. I didn't really have to do this because all copper windings are coated. I did it because once I am done in the dirt I want to reconfigure it into the cooler thing I mentioned. So basically I didn't want dirty. I can get all kinds of strange things to happen in ground and around simple EB's. It's so inconsistent and finicky though that I have little sound results on anything yet. Basically an induction cooking system very unoptimal for ground work. We need ULF interaction not this high stuff.
Main problem with my test unit is the circuit is not easily hackable. Way too complex and way too many inter-relating things going on, not to mention a ton of logic held in a CPU. I have hounded our induction engineer about many of its aspects, like dumping current sensing option, its ferrous detection scheme, lowering its frequency, having manual adjustability to frequency, etc.... Basically you can't do it easily because every aspect of it is optimized for cooking. I also asked about just isolating/modifying the switching circuit in order to pirate it into our sort of uses but got the same reply 'not easily done' Oh well....
Meanwhile, I think Tishatang has made some very interesting posts of late....
For what it is worth, I too can "feel" when the microwave is on. I can also "feel" when I put my cell phone in my hip pocket, which I hardly ever do now.
These are great posts you guys (and Jeanna) and I hope to be able to contribute more soon.
Bill
@MW383,
QuoteThe problem here is that I believe 25K frequency way too high.
I would agree if you want to keep using high amps draw.
What I am working on in my mind is that since the frequency goes down when the voltage goes up, it might be doing something similar to amps when in a pulsed circuit.
Frequency is not really a thing, but if you look at it as the number of times the voltage passes by an 'amp' spot then many of them and fast, might do the same work.
(I also think the 'amp spot' is the moment of change from one direction to the other which as we know creates very high volts- -- Now,because at that moment the resistance is also low , then, I=E/very small number which also means I is also very high at that short moment)
So, I want to avoid the lower frequency to start it. (25k is possibly high enough.) I have also seen that the
frequency will drop as the draw pulls power from the pulses.
So, I am trying to steer you ;) into trying this too. (rude of me but if you know about it then maybe it is not so rude.)
Thanks for all this information.
Do you have a suggestion about a ferrous material?
Should I use one of these welding rods I got for the bedini? (soft iron)
or...
My hardware store has this really thick copper wire. 1/8 and 1/4" diameter. expensive, but an immersion coil only would take a little, Do you think this is the right direction? or do you think iron is?
I know there is only one way to know... I'm just asking while I am wondering.
thanks for your valuable input.
jeanna
Jeanna,
I really need to come up to speed with voltage-amperage-frequency relationships. I promise to learn about these things real soon so I can begin interpreting the many things you have mentioned.
Quote from: jeanna on October 29, 2009, 10:11:38 PM
Do you have a suggestion about a ferrous material?
I'm not sure in what context you are asking me this (Hacked Induction Cookers?)
For hacked induction cookers, again a simple soft iron = the best. You will see that the pretty induction cooking pots/pans are stainless steel on the outside for corrosion-cleanability purposes, but integrated into the bottom surface of pan is a ferrous disk and aluminum disk. The aluminum is just there to even out heat transfer into the stainless. Ferrous there just for inductive field purposes. It has been my experience that weakly magnetic grades of stainless steel such as 430 will work with these cookers. I have used .048" thick plates with limited success. Observations in this case : weak field created, far less heat generation produced as compared to more ferrous materials. At the end of the day it was really a demonstration of inefficiency.
Quote from: jeanna on October 29, 2009, 10:11:38 PM
My hardware store has this really thick copper wire. 1/8 and 1/4" diameter. expensive, but an immersion coil only would take a little, Do you think this is the right direction? or do you think iron is?
I take it you want to inductively heat a liquid? Easily accomplished -- it is just a question of getting construction into a format usable to you. An induction cooker with compatible pot/pan will very efficiently heat a liquid contained in it. A non-ferrous container can also be used (even plastic) just as long as it is temperature rated to above whatever you substance you are heating (+ a safety margin if you are dealing with non-metals). So in this case you can have an aluminum vessel in the field which by itself is useless. By simply sticking some ferrous material in the vessel, just this material will heat thus heating your liquid. Note, this all accomplished with an unmodified induction cooker employing its standard pancake coil. The chunk of ferrous material you have in your vessel literally becomes the immersion heater only in this case it is wireless! The bottom line is that this is a neat thing to modify in order to perform whatever unique task one has in mind. There will be limitations in distance of field (coil to ferrous object) and maybe a few others. So long as you trick the induction cooker into thinking it has a ferrous pot on it, it is quite flexible to heat just about anything.
I have successfuly tested several more radical hacks to these things. I cannot mention all of them as they are due to be employed commercially but rest assured that these things can very creatively replace a bunch of heavy electrical consuming entities in your home. I think you can see what I am getting at.
I should maybe start a hacked induction thread somewhere. It isn't exactly overunity though is it?
Regards,
MW383
OK back to Stubblefield. Let's blow things apart a tad. Hopefully the readers find some of this useful. Basically this is a copy of a letter I sent out recently. I'm presuming its original recipient does not mind my desire to get more people thinking about some of these things.
Cheers!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
…In regards to Stubblefield; you are on the right track in regards to organized windings. As we have discussed there is the magnetic aspect of the primary itself. I have thought about this a bit and am certain that aligned irons the only way to go. Basically you have a more organized flux path traveling from core (or inner diameter of primary) to secondary (or outer diameter of primary). Now let’s look at copper for a bit. Pass a current through just a copper coil, now visualize the cross section of this copper wire, there is a localized field around this wire. If you have a magnetized iron next to it, there should be a magnetic effect between the 2. <I employ others to give a more expert opinion on this> Wild winding not only wrecks direct flux travel from ID to OD standpoint, but could induce localized confusion in regards to potential magnetic effects occurring between adjacent copper and iron wires.
Think more on magnetic fields in the primary. Do we really care how magnetized the core itself is? I do a little but really care more about the actual saturation of primary windings more. Having iron present is a cool way to help this situation. So it pulls flux from the core and puts it where it is needed most (uniformly through the core). This can only help the inductive process into a secondary. So keep those irons aligned and make a neat flux path through the system.
There is another very good reason for aligned Irons and that is electrolytic path. We want an organized electrolytic path through the cross section of the cell and also coming into the cell from the outside earth surroundings. One must not forget that we are really in the business of collecting extra electrons from the earth. Electrochemically Iron is being oxidized (losing electrons) while copper is being reduced (gaining electrons). This is critical in understanding the operation of the cell and also its organized construction. So running in a jar of water, the iron is the only thing that loses its electrons. The electrolyte (water in our case) is the means of exchange. The OH- aspect of the water is what really does the moving of electrons, the missing H is liberated as a gas. If you look at standard commercial electrochemistries, a salt enhanced water electrolyte is most common. For example alkaline cells utilize potassium hydroxide (KOH). The salt is there to improve conductivity thus greatly widening the electron flow bandwidth. SO.....if you had an incoming supply of free electrons (earth), they will end up attaching to the OH- component of our plain water ; probably near to the surface of the Iron. Now there still is the straight up Iron-Copper reaction occurring but the earth electrons greatly (in theory) outnumber the Iron supplied electrons, so for a high electrical output scenario, there is still only a small internal chemical reaction because of free stuff we collect thus a possible truth to the urban legend that the electrodes look very un-reacted after extended periods of operation. I would expect only extremely slight voltage increases in ground compared to in jar because ultimately we are still bound by voltage potentials associated with this chemistry. I would also expect there to be an amperage increase (and hopefully to the magnitudes Stubblefield describes).
We definitely want the widest door possible between the earth and the cell. Think of the door in surface area terms. Bottom line, we want a great big 'electron flow door' to outside world and we want a shrieking neon light at the door saying "welcome nice little earth electrons!" Another thing to consider; do not strangulate the primary coil electrolytically by secondary coil construction. Obviously you want the secondary close but we need an electrolytic gap between the 2. One can use a battery grade polypropylene separator layer which should promote decent capillary action from main opening below (directly open to earth). I would also suppose that a layer of plastic mesh could also be employed for this purpose (I think capillary action would be worse with this though). As long as there is some way in.
We can make a great fundamental cell of this there is no doubt. This eliminates 1 of 3 things I see. The other 2 biggies will be earth placement and the frequency aspect.
I have made contact with a local dowser group about this but they have not returned my inquiry so I guess I am on my own. I can either learn their black magic or find some other way to detect a good spot. I have been reading a lot of geomagnetic prospecting patents lately. Basically they have what appears to be a greatly improved metal detector. Metal detectors are basically tuned to detect electrical dipoles around underground objects within a small depth range. They are obviously limited in their scope and ability. The geo-prospecting people are able to penetrate thousands of feet deep via various frequencies. They then measure a voltage response thus telling them not only where the dipole is, but how deep it is. Dipole being oil, ores, etc... in this case. This technology was widely employed at one point in time and eventually replaced by much more sophisticated systems.
As far as the frequency thing, I remain interested in recent posts by Tishitang. Great battery construction good but without harmonious earth interaction, we will not have much. I think we have a great direction with Tishitang's input.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: MW383 on October 30, 2009, 01:06:18 PM
I'm not sure in what context you are asking me this (Hacked Induction Cookers?)
For hacked induction cookers, again a simple soft iron = the best.
thanks for that.
Quote
I take it you want to inductively heat a liquid?
I want to use the secondary from a joule thief that produces voltage spikes up to 450v at 5khz from and 90v at210kh to create the necessary influence to the wire fe or cu to make it hot enough to cook something.
Quote
I should maybe start a hacked induction thread somewhere. It isn't exactly overunity though is it?
Not at the moment, but after we break through the walls in our minds that tell us we can't, it will be. Or, it will take so little and give back so much, it doesn't matter.
Thank you, MW383
Again, you have brought in otherwise unknown material.
jeanna
Quote from: jeanna on October 30, 2009, 09:24:52 PM
I want to use the secondary from a joule thief that produces voltage spikes up to 450v at 5khz from and 90v at210kh to create the necessary influence to the wire fe or cu to make it hot enough to cook something.
I am not familiar with joule theif and am quite surprise by what you can make it do in regards to what you can make it do. Cool. As far as the 5Khz I think this will be to low in being able to produce eddy current required for heating. Is there a clever way to increase frequency? The voltage is certainly there, I would shoot for at least 20Khz somehow. I wish I knew if it were possible but am just beginning my crash course in electrical schooling. The 210Khz is quite a bit higher than a commercial inductive cooking unit but I need to look into this because maybe with a different material, it could be used. More questions I can pose to the induction engineer on Monday!
As far a joule thief goes, what kind of power is associated with your voltage / frequencies? Another thought I have is to consider smaller, perhaps unique coil constructions as opposed to big pancake which requires lots of power. Which now reminds me of another trick induction cooker people play in regards to their coil. On the bottom side of it there are mu-metal pieces applied. This acts as a sheild for pile of electronics directly below the coil but also has field strengthening abilities on the opposite side (field being used). Mu-metal basically a highly magnetic permeable material. Since magnetic fields can only be redirected and never outright blocked, mu-metal sits there and justs soaks everything up coming near it so in the case of induction cooker it grabs everything thus nothing left to travel downwards to freaky electronicy things.
Cheers!
MW383
Quote from: MW383 on October 30, 2009, 09:44:41 PM
As far a joule thief goes, what kind of power is associated with your voltage / frequencies?
... Mu-metal basically a highly magnetic permeable material. Since magnetic fields can only be redirected and never outright blocked, mu-metal sits there and justs soaks everything up coming near it so in the case of induction cooker it grabs everything
...
The very sweet thing about the joule thief is that it is an easy pulse width modulator. A little turn of the potentiometer at the base of the transistor and the frequency changes.
The thing that I noticed this year is that when the frequency goes one way the voltage goes the other. And it is not linear.
But, if I can get 450v at 5 kh I am sure I can get 200v at 20khz, (I think it is in my notes somewhere.) but I do not know if that is enough to heat up a heating unit.
What is exciting me from what you are telling us is that there is a chance.
I think maybe we should start a new thread, so we can try some things and not interrupt these great EER experiments. Ist said he was then he disappeared. Maybe his thread is the place.
jeanna
@all
I have to remove two protruding axles, and cut off other larger sections, all necessary to get this Stubblefield winder going.
1641 = the offending item to be cut off
1642 = made a start, almost done
1643 = Done, offending item removed
1644 = Getting ready to remove one of the old end supports
1645 = Done, time 4 a cuppa T :D
I was up untill the weeee small hours of the morning, Im tired so I'm calling it a early night
Catch you all tomorra
jim
I have an internet friend who is a sculptor. From time to time he sends out links to his list. Today was a whopper.
This is the write-up from live leak.
From the exhibition Sculpture in Motion at the Atlanta Botanical Garden on view through October 2008 and curated by Brigitte Micmacker from Sculpturesite Gallery. Courtesy the Curator's commentary: "Morpho Tower, Sachiko Kodama's mesmerizing synthesis of science, technology and art rises like an eccentric, thorny, botanical form within a world of most peculiar botanical forms housed in the Desert House of the Fuqua Conservatory.
Employing electromagnets and magnetically-charged microfine particles suspended in oil set in motion through a computer controller, Kodama, who is associate professor at Tokyo's University of Electro-Communications, explores an entirely new territory where the seductive glossy black liquid seems to turn into rows of solid spikes impeccably organized around a spiraling cone, only to dissolve abruptly into obvious liquidity once again --a rhythmic flow and ebb, an alchemic dance where the artist playfully communicates basic principles of physics without elucidating them."
and here are 2 videos of the sculpture.
yer gonna luvit!
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3ad_1233021969 (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3ad_1233021969)
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8e9_1233801331 (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8e9_1233801331)
wow a great demo of magnetism in motion!
jeanna
I have a technical question relating to the production of DC from a big transformer.
This question I am directly asking mw383 and tishatang for their responce.
but others may answer if they so wish.
Here is my problem.
I have a NiCAD battery bank setup on my side verrandah, it consists of 20 ALCAD MP 300 individual 1.2 volt cells
I have a old Lead Acid battery discharge tester which is designed for the 2 volt wet cells, not these 1.2 volt cells, but it can still give the Ni-CAD cells a workout.
These I want to drive my UPS which powers my PC and a range of other stuff.
A couple of these cells are rather low in output, although they do come up with a good recharge, but they don't hold their charge as long as the other cells.
What I think they need is a single or a couple of BOOST charges to get them going properly again, but I currently don't have a DC rectifier that is capable of handling the punishment I want to meat out to then for about 1 hour or more.
-----------------------
OK, I have a MOT where I have modified the Secondary output, I removed the original secondary winding and rewound it with 4 loops of the usual size lead that runs from the car battery down to the starter motor.
Now I have avaliable hundreds of amps avaliable, at 4 volts, but this is AC, not DC
Here is what I suggest to alter the AC output to a DC output, I have not tried this, but it stands to reason it will work.
If I place a heavy diode on one leg of the 240 volt input to the primary side of the MOT, would I get DC out, by driving the primary with DC pulces.
It would have to be of sufficient wattage to be able to drive the primary coil. What size should I use?
My thinking is, as the AC drives the MOT, the secondary reflects the AC sine wave in the output of the secondary coil.
So we get the same sine wave on the output of the secondary, albeit the voltage is much lower but the AMPs are much much higher.
Now, if the MOT primary was fed only the top half of the 240v AC, then the output of the secondary would reflect it's output as the same, so would only the top half of the sine wave be presented, and would the AMPs reflect this also.
If this is so, would this be a way I could get hundreds of DC amps without using a ultra heavy duty diode on the output of the MOTs secondary coils.
I think a stream of DC pulces will be able to really give the offending cells a bit of a workout and perhapse recover them back to a resonable capacity, or at least recover the cell somewhat.
Now, the AC here is 50 cycles, so if I place a diode on the imput, I should get 25 pulces in and 25 pulces out.
jim
@electricme
My quick answer is that it will not work. An inductor will kick back what you put in just like a capacitor. Even though you pulse the primary, as soon as the pulse stops, the inductor will push back the current you put in. The secondary will see a distorted AC input signal. The secondary will tend to smooth it out even more. The end result will be AC. You will need the heavy duty diode on the output.
There may be another way to condition the weak cells by radiant conditioning using a Bedini type charger? Use the search function on this forum and search conditioning batteries, or reconditioning batteries or something like that. Somewhere I have an article or link. I will look for it.
Here is a schematic of a radiant charger. Unfortunately I don't know where I found it? It may not work for nicad? However, in my readings, some posts indicate success with nicad batteries. Research it before trying on your batteries. Otherwise find a heavy duty diode.
OK All,
Time to get back to the Stubblefield coil machine I am making
Modifications update.
I also found the bottom square steel was far too long, so I grabbed my cutoff wheel and chopped it off.
1672 = Drive side is in the vice, the deed is done, severed.
Next item is to fit a socket onto the tapered square shaft, luckily for me there is a center bolt I can feed through the socket to attach it to the shaft.
The idea I am going with is, it makes no sense to do all this work for only 1 size bolt, so I decided to design the winder jig to accommodate any size bolt and shaft, this gives me much more scope, possibilities are endless now.
1673 = The center bolt can be seen poking through the center of the socket, I am about to screw it to the bearing shaft assembly.
1674 = Socket and bearing and shaft assembled (only hand tightened), I can remove this socket and replace it with a smaller or larger socket.
1675 = This is a side view of just this section, just to give everyone a better idea what I am on about.
1678 = Grab the bolt you are using to be used to wind the bifilar coils on and place the "head" of the built into the sockets end. As you can see, this is what you will end up with if it all goes to plan.
The next step will be to to cut the slide rails for the end securing slide assembly. Before making the slide assembly I need to make the slide structure itself, so I decided to use 2 long sections of square steel as rails, which need to be made before the slide itself.
jim
Thankyou tishatang
Quote from: tishatang on October 31, 2009, 10:06:24 PM
@electricme
My quick answer is that it will not work. An inductor will kick back what you put in just like a capacitor. Even though you pulse the primary, as soon as the pulse stops, the inductor will push back the current you put in. The secondary will see a distorted AC input signal. The secondary will tend to smooth it out even more. The end result will be AC. You will need the heavy duty diode on the output.
There may be another way to condition the weak cells by radiant conditioning using a Bedini type charger? Use the search function on this forum and search conditioning batteries, or reconditioning batteries or something like that. Somewhere I have an article or link. I will look for it.
I am currently modifying a small plug pack iron transformer, I will produce the results, with my findings, DMM and scope screens.
1679 = Here is my small AC 240v in and AC out, the PCB with bridge and smoothing cap has to be removed.
I am open to what ever results are seen.
Thankyou
jim
@all
I have an answer to my question of, can I feed pulses of DC into the 240 volt primary of a transformer and get a DC pulse output.
The short answer is, I can feed 240v DC pulses, BUT the effects are disastrous indeed.
I soldered a silicon diode 1N4004 on the active side of the input, neutral to the other end of the primary.
Connected DMM leads and CRO leads to the output.
At switch on, I see on the secondary 0.01 to 0.04 volts DC, but I see 18.0 volts AC, quite amazing and this backs up tishatang's post exactly. As events transpired, I did not have time to take a photo of the DMM readings
I managed to take 1 scope shot before HEAT took a hand in things.
The primary winding went open circuit, I could not hold the transformer, it was far too hot to touch let alone hold.
Surprisingly, the DIODE is quite OK, I am amazed with this experiment, thank you tishatang for your input.
The outcome is IT WONT WORK, proven without doubt.
I submit the scope image which I managed to take just seconds before failure took effect, your remarks will be interresting.
I was in the process of swapping the cro leads to see if the wave form would alter when it went kaput.
My theory is, the energy pulse cannot be transferred to the secondary properly, I don't know why, but the extremely fast heating points me to the collapsing core magnetic field has nowhere to go, it builds up and up and up, the iron becomes saturated and it alters from a magnetic field to heat energy.
This experiment ran for about 2 minutes maximum.
I could have fried an egg on it. lol.
jim
@electricme
Serendipity plays a part in life, especially in science. You may have just discovered a way to prove excess heat in to an inductor using timed pulses. See the the Rosemary Aimslee thread. That thread is a barrel of snakes and a big pissing contest if it is OU or not. Partly because they are using small resistor inductors. The small currents and heat are subject to measurement errors. You, on the other hand may have found an experiment you can grab onto. Or not, if it's too hot! WE all need an efficient heater. It's already starting to be a cold winter. You might want to tell Rosemary what you did and let her see if it is related to her patent?
tishatang
Quote from: electricme on November 01, 2009, 12:44:12 AM
The short answer is, I can feed 240v DC pulses, BUT the effects are disastrous indeed.
I take it this is a rectified pulse from a wall outlet?
QuoteI managed to take 1 scope shot before HEAT took a hand in things.
That shot is very much like a wave I see on the earth battery a lot.
It is a little crooked. The earth battery one is more symmetrical, but more like it than anything else I have seen.
Quote...
The outcome is IT WONT WORK, proven without doubt.
I submit the scope image which I managed to take just seconds before failure took effect,
I could have fried an egg on it. lol.
Hmm we were just talking about using pulses to make an immersion heater.. ;D
----
If this came from the wall, I would say I am not sure it is proved.
Until you take a joule thief or something else that cannot in any way borrow from the power company, I am not convinced.
On the other hand, I too have had very little success using pulses across a transformer to do anything.
But I would have thought I had something if my earth battery produced heat somewhere!
I have had results by using those pulses in series with a coil.
-Pulses into the wire of a coil in series with the pulses, not across the coil.
You could try that. It is an interesting experiment,
thank you,
jeanna
edit
Good idea Tishatang!
@MW383 and All re dowsing
Its like the realtors say, location, location, location. For the EB to work, we must know to best places to put the rods. In the old days, people were more in tune with the earth. I will say if you have a skeptic mind, dowsing won't work. You have to believe it will work and ask for what you are looking and the earth currents will respond. A lot depends on your emotional state and need. Here is my experience with my only attempt at dowsing:
In 1969, my small town experienced a major flood. About 14 people died in mudslides and about 60 homes destroyed and maybe 200 badly damaged including mine. It took about one year afterward for me to get the energy to rebuild my house. I needed to find the water meter. After one year the ground had dried rock hard with the flood debris about two feet deep. I dug about three holes where I though the meter was. I could not find the meter.
I have a bad back and digging is very difficult for me. I thought I would try to dowse for it. I got two welding rods, bent them in an L, and walked in a straight line and got a feeble reading. Not being sure it was a reading, I came in from a slightly different direction and got another small reading at the same spot. I said OK, I will dig another hole. Lo and behold, I hit the meter head on. Even though I had never dowsed before, had no lessons, I did have a great emotional need to find that meter. It has been said that earth currents are semi conscious. They will respond to your needs. If the dowser wants water, his mentally asks for it. If he wants gold, he states his need and the currents respond. I wanted my meter and I found it. Ask for the best place to put the rods.
Here is the best doc on dowsing as an attachment:
My opinion is that the alignment is more important than the location. Of course, I could be wrong but it works for me.
I used to do a lot of metal detecting with a White's metal detector. Never tried dowsing but I do believe in it as not too long ago folks hired one before digging wells and they were correct most of the time. I may cut up some coat hangers and give it a go. It would be a fun experiment.
Bill
@Bill
In the beginning, I am sure dowsing ability played a major role with Stubblefield. However, I've come to the conclusion, that later on, he was able to condition the ground. At that point he could have put the rods anywhere within the conditioned field and drawn energy.
I hope my intuition is correct. As I develop theory of his EB, I will reveal how I think he did this. My idea started on the other thread and I will continued my thoughts there. That way a year or two from now, a new person may find the thread and everything will be in the same place. I may be wrong, but it could be a piece of the puzzle. If I am right, it would be nice if we did not have to worry about where to put the rods. We just put them in the ground and condition the spot where they are.
Chris
I have the property to try this conditioning. Im thinking Zinc powder or a Zinc solution. If you guys can give me your opinion on how to set the experiment up for an EB with Zinc Ill try it. Should Zinc powder be used or a solution.? What mesh? Dimensions for a viable experiment? How deep? Should another element be used that doesn't destroy the earth for vegetation? Im in South Central Florida.
How would you know when dousing with branches or metal if your picking up water,metal,or a magnetic field? I know there are magnetic field detectors but they sure are expensive. I found this unit that is supposed to pick up metal,pvc or magnetic fields for $25.
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_1054_1054
Chris:
You might be correct. All we have is what we can read and we have to decide what is correct and what may not be. As I have said before, if it was something specific to Stubblefield's farm area, or conditioning he did to the ground, how did he make his system work when he took it on the road for demonstrations in Philly, NY and Washington DC? One of these, he did in the Potomac river itself from a boat. His system still worked. That is what I can't figure out.
Bill
Quote from: IotaYodi on November 01, 2009, 07:58:30 AM
I have the property to try this conditioning. Im thinking Zinc powder or a Zinc solution.
Hi Iotayodi,
I am glad you want to do some of this.
I think that the metal content of the ground might make a difference, but it would more likely be the iron content than anything else, since it is a magnetic inductor.
He put those words together, I believe. I posted it a few weeks ago, from his brochure. His own notes told that he wanted to include the magnetic element but the patent office would not allow it.
There was a tone to those notes that makes me believe that the magnetic component was very important to the design, and he was heartily annoyed.
So,
Perhaps if you made a matched pair with welding rods at the center, a coil of copper and mild iron wire (black annealed wire 19gauge at my hardware store) and put the stakes into the ground 30 feet apart, and see what you get as seen through a scope if you bought that one.
Then we would have the opposite corners of the usa covered!
Tishatsang could try it in china and bill is in kentucky and jim in aussie. Maybe we could find something out!
Where is protonmom these days? I think her location is upper midwest?? I am not sure.
A few others who have dropped out might renew their interest.
It would be cool to do it before the frost on the pumpkins is too thick. ;)
jeanna
@tishatang,
Ha ha, I begun to get excited when I read your post Chris, about the excess heat I discovered from my little experiment, here I was, doing an experiment to see if I could get DC out of a small transformer and all I got was heat.
This could be put to good usage, by you all in the winter time, me too but I will have to wait a little longer.
OK, I put my DMM on the primary and got zero, this indicated a open circuit, but before I threw the trannie in the bin I decided to use a sharp knife to slice open the green HV electrical tape, and I found a thermal fuse there.
It was rated to 115degrees. I remeasured the primary again, and I have continuity, it was the thermal fuse that failed (did it's job) so the transformer is still OK.
Now I need to find out how much heat the insulation inside this transformer can safely handle and put some kind of sensor on the iron to switch off the 240v AC to allow the iron lamination's (transformer to cool down.
I think I have accidentally discovered a very very low powered source of heat, capable of putting out a lot if this was coupled to a fan to push air over a set of heatsinks, it just might be able to be used as a heat radiator source.
Lets just think about this a while, the primary wires are very small, they carry hardly any current, the diode was a 1N4004, its rating would not allow high amps to pass if it was used in series with a electrical bar element heater, but it didn't fail, but the heating was fairly rapid and it took a long while for the transformer to cool down.
If this can be married up to some sort of control circuit to monitor its heat and drive a metal bladed fan, then we all got a more efficient heater.
I was very amazed at this whole experiment, this effect was not what I was looking for, it was an accidental discovery.
Mw383 has also done work with electrical cookers, perhaps he could shed some light on this for us all.
looking at 1684 jpg, the thermal fuse can be seen, its smaller than a grain of rice, I placed a staple on the top of the transformer for comparison purposes.
Could a set or couple of sets of heat pipes be used to transfer this heat away, one placed on top of the iron, one placed under the iron transformer, all four sides, wow.
I'm getting ahead of myself.
jim
So jim,
I could use a circuit diagram on this one!
please?
And the power source was a NiMH battery? or was it your house wiring?
thanks,
jeanna
Jeanna,
I was just about to post this and something deleted my work grrr.
OK, I didn't use a JT or EER cells to power this transformer, only the regular 240 volt power.
Get a DMM with a heat/temp probe to see if you can pull up a temp range, might be useful in working out BTUs etc.
Disclamer. for (everyone who reads this)
I don't give anyone permission to do this experiment as it involves high voltages, current and might be injurious to your well being.
Only persons who think they are sufficiently trained and understand what they are doing in a research environment should carry out experiments in a proper setup laboratory.
As I cannot know every persons situation, qualified to experiment, with low or higher voltages or currents, I absolve myself from any outcome, which might transpire.
The reader alone accepts full responsibility of risk to his / her person or any property.
Be careful around any exposed live wires, don't come back and blame if you kill your self. :D
jim
OK jim,
We were just talking about that somewhere around here.
I know about those immersion heaters that are basically a shorted wall mains plug with a coil in between. They boil water in about 30 seconds, but be careful never to use it out of water.
BUT I was wanting to try to make this work using pulses that act like ac but are pulses from a joule thief secondary for instance.
We all have tonnes of ideas waiting for trial, and this is one of mine. It would be nice to use a AA to make a cup of tea, wouldn't it?
(I am going to try it, but tomorrow is a sunny day and I have some out door obligations planned.)--- SO, if YOU have a battery run pulsing circuit and would like to give it a try, I know what a good cup of tea requires, you can just tell me tea or no tea.!
:D,
thank you,
jeanna
@ Jim:
I just replicated your circuit and it killed me by electrocution. My attorney (Barrister) will be in touch with you...Ha ha. Just kidding. That was a very good disclaimer you wrote and, sad to say, that type of thing is needed these days. I really think you are on to something here mate.
@ Jeanna:
We all know that you can coil a copper wire and put the ends on an AA battery (short) and it will heat quite a bit, even glowing, right? But, now you bring the JT circuit into it and, maybe the short is intermittent? Like the way we light leds, on and off so fast we can't tell but look how long the bats last. So, if I read you correctly, applying the JT technology to this resistance heater would be a great experiment to try. Maybe an AA bat. would only do one cup of tea, maybe more. Maybe, if it is like our other experiences, a "dead" AA battery would do several cups of tea. Now that would be something and, it could be scaled up.
I have seen your posts along this line of thinking for a while now and I totally agree. Start with tea and then we move on to toast?
Bill
@ tishatang
Quote from: tishatang on November 01, 2009, 05:23:35 AM
@Bill
In the beginning, I am sure dowsing ability played a major role with Stubblefield. However, I've come to the conclusion, that later on, he was able to condition the ground. At that point he could have put the rods anywhere within the conditioned field and drawn energy.
I hope my intuition is correct. As I develop theory of his EB, I will reveal how I think he did this. My idea started on the other thread and I will continued my thoughts there. That way a year or two from now, a new person may find the thread and everything will be in the same place. I may be wrong, but it could be a piece of the puzzle. If I am right, it would be nice if we did not have to worry about where to put the rods. We just put them in the ground and condition the spot where they are.
Chris
Conditioning the ground, arrrr harrrrr, this is ringing a big bell with me now. Let me explain
I must digress back to the time when I thought I had a breakthrew and it turned out I had a voltage leak from my hotwater system.
I had my oscilloscope across the output of my 1st earth bat cell, and I did notice I could somehow play with the waveform being displayed, sometimes, the wobbling line could be influenced by me just shorting out the POS and NEG leads, but it didn't seem to work sometimes, other times I got it to move around quite violently, but it never seemed to me to be anything other than me causing this effect.
I must of been getting close to the hi of the wave to influence it, but pulsing by hand is a give and miss affair, its gota be in sync
I can remember we all talked on the forum about rigging up a set ot rotating contacts with a electric motor, but no one made up any thing to do this. We spoke of make and break vibrating springs, contacts etc etc.
Maybe we should have done so.
This is like we have been saying this time here, we need to switch open the circuit at the right moment to collapse the magnetic field, using a coil that can seance when to do this, but it must be self regulating in itself, using the earth energy as its switch.
@jeanna,
What can I sayyyyy, I will need a BIG cup of T to morrow if you replicate my experiment, and if fails........... :o
Remember my disclaimer or I might have to get hold of my bush lawyer via the outback overland party line......lol
OK, now I am going to announce here on this forum, a new mechanical engine I have been thinking about for several years.
There is NO crankshaft, only a flywheel with a rotating central drive shaft.
I have drawn up its main mechanical components, it is completely revolutionary, is capable of some new breakthroughs in the efficient burning of fossil fuels and any other fuel for that matter.
It has NO conrod flying around a crankshaft, because there is NO crankshaft.
I have managed "on paper" to marry up the 4 stroke 2 revolution principle of the everyday engine to work in a new design where the 4 stroke principle is carried out in a SINGLE Revolution.
Are you ready?
jim
Quote from: Pirate88179 on November 01, 2009, 11:39:55 PM....
..... (short) and it will heat quite a bit, even glowing, right? But, now you bring the JT circuit into it and, maybe the short is intermittent?
.....
..... applying the JT technology to this resistance heater would be a great experiment to try. Maybe an AA bat. would only do one cup of tea, maybe more. Maybe, if it is like our other experiences, a "dead" AA battery would do several cups of tea. Now that would be something and, it could be scaled up.
I have seen your posts along this line of thinking for a while now and I totally agree. Start with tea and then we move on to toast?
Bill
Yes, Bill
You do have my idea.
I am not quite able to try it yet.
I was hoping someone else would,
and maybe you would like to try it.
I was thinking I would find either a ready made immersion coil to modify or make it from some thick copper wire. I keep forgetting to buy the wire. I am going to the hardware store today... maybe I will remember since I am making this post.
IST made hot sparks on a piece of carbon then virtually disappeared. I am hoping for a follow up soon.
jeanna
Quote from: electricme on November 02, 2009, 05:33:24 AM
@ tishatang
I can remember we all talked on the forum about rigging up a set ot rotating contacts with a electric motor, but no one made up any thing to do this. We spoke of make and break vibrating springs, contacts etc etc.
Would an old fashioned commutator work? They are available new and real cheap.
Quote from: electricme on November 02, 2009, 05:33:24 AM
This is like we have been saying this time here, we need to switch open the circuit at the right moment to collapse the magnetic field, using a coil that can seance when to do this, but it must be self regulating in itself, using the earth energy as its switch.
Something I have been trying to duplicate in ground experiements. Not successful as of yet. Tishatang is getting all over this subject now and I work overtime in building an understanding.
Quote from: electricme on November 02, 2009, 05:33:24 AM
OK, now I am going to announce here on this forum, a new mechanical engine I have been thinking about for several years.............Are you ready?
Yes, because I have been busy collecting waste cooking oil from restaurants. Burning it in Turk Burners cool but using it in something like you propose would be better use of the fuel. I admit to having way too many alternative energy hobbies..... You may have already guessed this but judging by your many pictures you are in the same boat!
Regards,
MW383
Jeanna,
I believe the heat from my iron core transformer the other day was caused by frequency.
The transformer was designed to operate at 50cycles (Hz for the miss led world, somewhere I have the article that proves cycles is not Hz), by putting a diode in the primary circuit, this only allowed one half of the cycle to get through, it then could function as it was designed to do, so heat was the by product.
I think the following happened on the secondary side.
The top half of the 240v pulsed the transformer, the magnetic field went one way, the secondary showed this as the top of the wave. Then a gap occurred between the pulses, this gap was wide enough to allow the magnetic field to collapse, which produced the bottom side of the ac to form on the secondary, so by pulsing the ac side primary, we can get an ac output out also.
I must try this just with a DC power supply or use a battery some time and see if the same effect occurs, if I use a PWM I should be able to get a result one way or another.
Ps, those of us who are older can remember "cycles, kilocycles, megacycles" this is the terminology used by the people who were mucking about with electrical stuff, before Mr Hertz name was given to the electrical industry, the word cycle pops up from time to time in older patients.
jim
Quote from: jeanna on November 01, 2009, 06:23:38 PM
Then we would have the opposite corners of the usa covered!
Tishatsang could try it in china and bill is in kentucky and jim in aussie. Maybe we could find something out! Where is protonmom these days? I think her location is upper midwest?? I am not sure.
And MW383 in Wisconsin along the shores of Lake Michigan....
By the way, immersion heaters nice from the fact that their efficiency is so high. I have much hard test data in these regards with commercial cooking appliances. In fact I will be travelling to a large power company down in the southern USA in a few days to oversee some of these very tests.
There is something better though and that is inductive heating. I am able to do more heat transfer work (into water) inductively with much less energy when compared to resistive heating elements that are submerged.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim,
In regards to your latest experiences with heat..... All I can think of is that you are inducing eddy currents. That is why it is heating the way it is. About the only place for an eddy current to develop is on any magnetic material in the system (iron laminations of core) What is interesting is your methods. They are quite simple when compared to commercial induction cookers.
I continue my hacking of these nasty little devices. Basically I use the induction circuit to drive a cylindrical coil instead of pancake coil. Located inside the coil is a galvanized pipe. This pipe will heat to 400F with just 100W power from 120VAC. Passing water through the pipe via natural percolation circuit creates a deadly effective steam heater. I am ducting steam output into an old refrigeration system evaporator. This evaporator is housed in a simple sheet metal enclosure having an inlet at bottom and outlet on top. 2 fans are utilized to pull air through the system (better to pull through evaporator coils than push). The result? The most power efficient space heater known. So steam is entering the evaporator, and recondenses to water upon leaving the evaporator. I have a variable transformer on the fans so I can adjust fan speed. Fans running full on take exiting evaporator water down to room temperature. I have lowered fan speed so water output a little higher than room temp. Note this system is not pressurized although it could be easily adapted into one. I will take some pictures and post upon returning from my power company expedition... This system could also be easily adapted into a conventional baseboard hot water heating system for a home.
I made mention to Jeanna of the many applications that can be done here. It is strictly up to the imagination. The missing link is a simple circuit. Right now I am definitely tied into mis-using cooking based circuits. There is a chap out there who knows how to build these things from scratch. I will have to hunt up his contact information. In the mean time, it looks like you are doing the same thing via alternate methods.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeanna,
In researching commercial induction circuits I have on hand.... AC supply voltage converted into DC. Once in DC circuitry, the system is isolated from spikes/problems that may occur on AC input side. Ultimately, the power is manipulated back to AC for distribution into the coil. Apparently an all AC system has a high failure rate in the field due to inconsistent power. Playing all of the DC games like we do achieves high reliability but also at a higher price. So if you ever want to hack up a commercial induction cooker, get one with the DC middle man.
Tishitang,
Again thank you for the dowsing handbook. I didn't mean to refer to it in a negative light. Along with the long list of other things I do in life, I run a small hobby farm. In my many reams of agricultural readings, I came accross a very unique form of agriculture that utilizes air and ground based energy systems in unison and at some frequency. This apparently modifies energy fields at ground level with the result being profound growth of any plant thing in the effected area. If I am not mistaken, Bedini himself reported similar results in some of his own EB experiments. Quantum agriculture is the phrase being used and the devices called quantum agriculture broadcasters. Such concepts in agriculture are shunned in the USA but more readily accepted in Australia / New Zealand. In reading all of these things initially, my opinion was low. I have changed this opinion since my education of ground energy. So my mind is quite open to things in general. I am glad to hear of a common person (you) having success with it. I will certainly try this. Show me the gold, show me the gold.....oops, I meant ground energy :)
Best regards to all,
MW383
MW383
Quote from: MW383 on November 02, 2009, 05:50:15 PM
Would an old fashioned commutator work? They are available new and real cheap.
Something I have been trying to duplicate in ground experiments. Not successful as of yet. Tishatang is getting all over this subject now and I work overtime in building an understanding.
Yes, because I have been busy collecting waste cooking oil from restaurants. Burning it in Turk Burners cool but using it in something like you propose would be better use of the fuel. I admit to having way too many alternative energy hobbies..... You may have already guessed this but judging by your many pictures you are in the same boat!
Regards,
MW383
The answer is "Yes", BUT you would need to make alterations to the communicator copper segments.
If you were thinking about using a starter or generator (Lucas gear comes to mind), then you need to understand the wiring configuration to modify the communicator so adjacent segments do not short out each other.
The Generator communicator is configured in such a way that there is a slight overlap occurs as the copper segments rotate under the carbon brush, the brush will bridge both segments for a split second.
This is done to avoid sparking, but its main function is to keep the magnetic field under the N and S poles from misplacement.
If the magnetic field was allowed to change at the wrong position while the armature was revolving, then it just would not be able to function, so the communicator rotor does all this switching automatically.
To use the communicator as a make or break only as a switch, then we need to do is to cut away adjustment copper bars, this will allow the rotating armature to become a simple switch.
Once you have removed the difficult to remove bars, (remember they are designed to overcome high centrifugal forces), you must fill the space with an insulator so the rotating "gap" as it were, does not allow the carbon brush to fall into the vacant space, snapping the brush off in the process and breaking everything.
Then if you have managed to do this successfully, there is the huge problem of keeping a rotating mechanical device at the required sync with the telleric waves as they pass by your pickup coil/s, a spinning mass has kinetic energy, depending how fast the switch is rotating will depend on how much energy you need to alter at any given instant in time.
Forget about the system the Tesla coil builders use, I refer to their rotating spark gaps they use to set frequency by RPM speeds, this simply will not work on a stubblefield system unless one finds a very steady stream of telleric current stream.
So Stubblefield settled on the old solenoid principle of a vibrating metal switch, held vertical.
As the teleric wave passed his coils, it was sensed, the output would have travelled up to his small switch arrangement and triggered it to open at just the right moment in time.
So think the best device is the to use the principle that stubblefield used, at least you will know for sure you should get somewhere.
Once, I really did manage to use a joule thief to power a highly modified relay coil.
I looked for a very sensitive relay, the coil was wound with the smallest wire, many many turns, then I took it apart and using fine needle nose pliers I rearranged the contacts to be closed at the closest I could get it physically to the iron pole of the electro magnet, with out actually touching the pole itself.
I got it to work just a couple of times, with the finest air gap and I saw a tiny spark, then it stopped working.
The above photo of yours is the way to go, as you have a adjustment screw, this will give you a head start, but you will also need some adjustment of the tension as well, there will need to be a balancing of the amount of spring tension, the stronger the spring, the harder the coil must work to overcome this tension.
jim
@ All
MW383 is on the way to achieving his goul, as he has understood we all need a make and breaker to run the Stubblefield coils.
See his photo he has supplied, well done. :D
The below photo shows my idea of a suitable way to setup a home made relay that can switch on and off when used with the Stubblefield coil.
This when made, MUST be held in the vertical position for it to operate correctly as gravity is used in its operation as well.
Build this on a sheet of wood or plastic to keep stray magnetic fields from influencing it.
The long pointer (beam) is made from any very stiff or solid material as long as it is NOT iron or steel.
The longer and lighter the better, as it becomes more sensitive with length.
Make a hinge hole on this beam arm, about 1/3 length from the top.
Make a small hole at the top of this beam arm. Later you secure either 2 horizontal small springs or a single vertical spring with an adjustment for tension purposes.
Glue a tiny weak magnet at the extreme end of the beam.
Make a coil up from a small nail, experiment with different sizes to get the best effect.
Make some brackets, from hard plastic, heat with flowing steam over a jug spout, (find a kettle to boil continuously), or make them from thin plywood and brass screws and wood glue.
You need to make up at least 2 small bits of tin about 1/4" inch by 1/2", if you cam make them smaller then all well and good.
These are soldering points and voltage transfer points. (make a few more while you are at it, save doing it all again).
To do this, grab a tin of cat food, throw the food at the kitty, well you are in a hurry, you are excited to make this, (gently lol), wash the empty tin, grab the scissors/tin sheers, try to cut a sliver of tin.
(A tin of Peas, spaghetti) is another source etc etc.
Using your soldering iron wet solder a small area on only 1 side, glue the tin to the beam arm where you decide is the right spot.
Place the this contact up fairly close, but not too close to the fulcrum point where the arm axle is.
Get the "idle jet" adjustment screw out of an old lawnmower or car carburetor, if it hasn't got a sharp point on it, file one on the end, then make up another rightangle bracket , drill some mounting holes and another hole for the adjustment screw.
If you got a nut with the idle screw, its even better, as you can glue the nut to the bracket.
Tin a small section on the nut.
Place this bracket assembly so the point touches the tin you glued on the beam arm.
------
HOW TO MAKE A FLAT COPPER SPRING
Make a small tiny spring, like old clocks have under the tic/toc action flywheel, ask a watch maker if he can let you have a bamboo spring out of a broken old time watch.
If you can't get one, make your own.
Grab some very fine copper wire and gently twist in a single flat spiral.
or, grab a long threaded small bolt with nut.
You need 2 wide washers the same size.
and 1 small washer smaller that the 2 bigger ones, and as thin as the copper wire.
Grab a Big washer and drill a small 1mm hole in its side very close to where the smallest washer outside edge would be if the smaller washer was placed directly over the large washer. De-burr the hole.
Put this washer on the bolt loosly.
Next, put the small washer onto the threaded bolt
Put the last big washer onto the threaded rod,.
Put the nut all the way to the end of the threaded bolt, tighten the nut.
Grab the small wire, feed about 3" through the hole in the 1st washer, and wind 7 to 10 turns on the middle washer.
over the outside edge of the small washer.
leave about 3" of free flying lead
Carefully undo the nut and dissemble the washers, the spiral copper coil will present itself to you.
------------------
Tin contacts, attach one end of the copper spiral to the tin on a separate bracket, the inside spiral end is glued to the pivot central, don't block the hole with glue.
Solder a small wire to another small tin section and glue this on the beam arm where you think you will be placing the idle screw bracket assembly.
You need a brass adjustment screw that actually touches the contact on the beam arm
Make the actual solenoid itself now, the easiest way to do this is to gutt a tiny solenoid or relay, a surface mount relay should be suitable, but it must have a rating of 1 volt at most or even less.
Remember this coil is being powered by the output of the stubblefield coil, which is almost nothing.
I might dream up a very high gain circuit to do this later on to help this coil to switch on.
Now fit the tiny coil on a small bracket and put it close to the tiny magnetic.
Now here is how I want it to work, say for instance the tiny magnet is glued to the end of the swinging beam arm, say the "S" pole is glued to the beam arm, so the "N" pole is presented to the electro coil, being iron the magnet is attracted to the iron armature, the brass idle screw must at this stage be making contact above the the coil, to complete this circuit.
As the teleric field passes the stubblefield coil in the ground, it sends a tiny voltage up to the relay coil via the contact and spring you wound, as the field passes the stubblefield coil, it intensifies the output, which makes the coil field stronger and stronger until the magnetic field in the tiny coil overcomes the magnetic attraction of the magnetic and so it pushes the beam arm away.
In the process the contact points on the beam arm open, there should be a tiny spark, the circuit is broken and since there is no opposing field in the tiny coil, the tiny magnetic is attracted again to the iron in the tiny coil, which pulls the swing beam arm back towards the coil, and so the whole action is repeated over and over again.
This will become self regulation, and will keep automatically in sync with the output of the stubblefield coil.
All the adjustments of the spring tension-er, electrical gap adjustment, and the magnetic gap adjustments are necessity, so you have total control on the working of this critical Stubblefield starter.
jim
Hi everyone,
I just posted my design for a new engine here on this thread.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7769.new#new
I did it here to keep it out of this thread, maybe Stefan can make a separate thread for it when he is ready, as I don't know how to do it.
jim electricme inventor of the DUDGEON ENGINE
Jim:
I started a topic for you here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8247.new#new
Bill
@electricme
I just took a look at your heating experience with wanting DC out of a AC input. I think it is related to Rosemary Ainslie patent in a certain way. I have not looked at that thread for a long time. It is too technical for me. I am a simple guy. I am old school. It was about vacuum tubes not solid state. Over there they are using solid state switching devices to control pulse width to the circuit. The circuit rebounds with excessive heat, supposedly. The problem is measuring feeble inputs and outputs dealing with higher hertz than normal 50 hz.
You have the advantage of no fancy equipment or triggering needed. The heat is unexpected becuase on the face of it, you are only using half the energy via a diode. If you only have half going in, it should run cooler, you would think?
This may be what is happening? Only a guess from a layman's point of view. In normal mode the transformer gets a full cycle input. There is some heat in the core from hysteresis. But the core is not doing any work. It is coasting. The hyst. currents circle one way and then the other following the the ups and downs of a normal AC input. Now, what happens when you only put in the upswing? Instead of coasting, energy is drawn out of the core to supply the downward part of the cycle. It is made to fill in the missing part. It pulls energy out of the core to supply the backwards flow of current. But, it may not be there for free. Since the core is depleted from this action, the next cycle may have to recharge the core?
So, maybe there is no savings in power input. Perhaps it is compensating by taking more power in on the half cycle? To test, no fancy equipment needed. Get a wattmeter, maybe an old one from local utility. I bought one for $5 once. Hook it to you wall outlet. Then to a variac transformer to reduce voltage to the test transformer. We want the test transformer to run hot but not burn up.
Run the setup with no diode for a long enough period to get a reading on the watt meter. Then install the diode and run the setup for the same period and see what the wattmeter says. Remember to put a small load on the test transformer. The only thing you are going to change is the diode. Since the wattmeter is designed to work on your 50 hz, there can be no error in reading power consumed by meters not designed to work on high hz. This should give a rough idea of efficiency.
Anyway, my 2 cents.
tishatang,
I just got around to seeing your post here about a Wattmeter, I'm in the middle of making a bat file to recover the 3 main windows boot files.
Now, do you mean the watt meter that is connected all the time to the house power supply?
Like this one below? (I got 3 of em)
or a wattmeter as used in RF
or use a amp meter.
BTW, I think I filled up your mail box, the Stubblefield stuff you wanted I found and sent it to you late last night.
jim
Jim
Yes, that is the wattmeter. It measures power consumed. Mount it on a board to hold it vertical like it would be on your house fuse panel. Have a big hole to give access to the connectors on the back. I think there are four bladed copper connectors here in the US. One pair for each side of the 240 volt supply. In Australia there might only be two because everything is 240, not 120 on one leg and 120 on another leg. Maybe also a ground connector? Everything on your experiment will go through this meter. You might have to let it run 24 hours to get an accurate reading on the counter dial? If you don't have a variac voltage reducing transformer, then use power resistors to drop the voltage so the diode config does not melt fuse link. Run it Hot but not melting. Let it run so the meter counts one digit accurately. Then make note of the time running.
Then remove the diode and let the setup run for the same time. Make note of the meter digits. Is it less than the diode setup? If yes, then setup is pulling extra power in on the half cycle of the diode to replenish the core. If it is more, then you have OU. If it is equal, you have OU because you just got a bunch of free heat. Just a quick check to what you have. If it passes this test, than everyone should replicate this to see if something is being overlooked.
Yes, I got your email re Stubblefield notes, Thanks. I am going to post a comment on your engine thread.
Chris
Jim
I forgot the wattmeter has a wheel that spins. No need to wait a long time to count digits. If they experiment has low power consumption, just see how long it take for the wheel to complete one revolution. This will compare diode or no diode much quicker.
Jim
I have another thought about the heating experiment. I looked at your circuit again and you show the secondary open, no load. Did this heating take place with the secondary unconnected? If so, there is always the possibility that somehow this circuit pulls in energy from the aether through the open wires. You did not close the loop in Bedini speak.
If heat occurs with no load, do this. Place a very light load like a 1 megohm resistor across the secondary ouput as a load. This closes the loop. If the heating is much less, there is the chance that the exra heat comes from the aether thru the open leads of the output?
:) Can someone give me detailed instructions on how to build a small simple stubblefield coil battery, just a simple small one to experiment with...
thanks
Quote from: freepow on November 08, 2009, 04:11:48 AM
:) Can someone give me detailed instructions on how to build a small simple stubblefield coil battery, just a simple small one to experiment with...
thanks
Here is a link to the post localjoe made for a pdf of this patent.
The patent is clear.
In the pages following thi link, you will find our discussions and problems, and you will find out a lot, but
You will find out more by just making one.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3500.msg74742#msg74742 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3500.msg74742#msg74742)
(Back then the thread was called earth battery... and I see that on that page it still is!)
Please make a bookmark to that page so you can help the next person who wants the info.
thanks,
jeanna
@ tishatang,
Quote from: tishatang on November 05, 2009, 05:03:57 AM
Jim
I have another thought about the heating experiment. I looked at your circuit again and you show the secondary open, no load. Did this heating take place with the secondary unconnected? If so, there is always the possibility that somehow this circuit pulls in energy from the aether through the open wires. You did not close the loop in Bedini speak.
If heat occurs with no load, do this. Place a very light load like a 1 megohm resistor across the secondary ouput as a load. This closes the loop. If the heating is much less, there is the chance that the exra heat comes from the aether thru the open leads of the output?
I seem to be getting mixed up between threads again, my fault, sorry.
I will do this experiment as soon as I take apart another plug pack.
jim
Hi all,
Thanks to gravityblock for this topic of this wiegand wire:
====
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Wiegand effect is a nonlinear magnetic effect, produced in specially annealled and hardened wire called Wiegand wire.
Initially, Wiegand wire is low-carbon Vicalloy (an alloy of cobalt, iron, and vanadium) wire, fully annealled. In this state the alloy is "soft" in the magnetic sense- that is, it is attracted to magnets (it is ferromagnetic and so magnetic field lines will divert preferentially into the metal) but the metal retains only a very small residual field when the external field is removed.
Then, the wire is subjected to a series of twisting and untwisting operations, to cold-work the outside shell of the wire, while retaining a soft core within the wire, and then the wire is aged. The result is that the magnetic coercivity of the outside shell is much larger than the inner core. This high coercivity outer shell will retain an external magnetic field even when the field's original source is removed.
The wire now exhibits a very large magnetic hysteresis loop - if a magnet is brought near the wire, the high coercivity outer shell excludes the magnetic field from the inner soft core until the magnetic threshold is reached, at which point the entire wire (both the outer shell and inner core) rapidly switch magnetisation polarity. This switchover occurs in a few microseconds, and is termed the Wiegand effect.
The value of the Wiegand effect is that the switchover speed is sufficiently fast that a significant voltage can be output from a solenoid using a Wiegand-wire core. Because the voltage induced by a changing magnetic field is proportional to the rate of change of the field, a Wiegand-wire core can increase the output voltage of a magnetic field sensor by several orders of magnitude as compared to a similar coil with a non-Wiegand core. This higher voltage can easily be detected electronically, and when combined with the high repeatability threshold of the magnetic field switching, making the Wiegand effect useful for positional sensors.
Once the Wiegand wire has flipped magnetization, it will retain that magnetization until flipped in the other direction. Sensors and mechanisms that use the Wiegand effect must take this retention into account.
The Wiegand effect is a macroscopic extension of the Barkhausen effect as the special treatment of the Wiegand wire causes the wire to act macroscopically as a single large magnetic domain. The small high-coercivity domains in the Wiegand wire outer shell switch in an avalanche, generating the Wiegand effect's rapid magnetic field change....
(there is more...)
=====
jeanna
Greetings to all,
I've been offline for a while now, so I'm trying to catch up. I just have one simple question right now....
Heat is otherwise wasted energy, right? If that is true, then how much heat is required to be truly useful? (ok, maybe a sub-question along with the actual question, but you get the point)
I can think of about 6 ways to utilize wasted heat energy off the top of my head, but how many are truly useful? The most useful is obviously above 220 degrees, since steam has a motive force, it can do real work. So what about temps that are not so motivated?
Quote from: electricme on November 03, 2009, 01:00:36 AM
Hi everyone,
I just posted my design for a new engine here on this thread.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7769.new#new
I did it here to keep it out of this thread, maybe Stefan can make a separate thread for it when he is ready, as I don't know how to do it.
jim electricme inventor of the DUDGEON ENGINE
I'm curious about this new engine, but I went through 6 pages from the link you provided and saw nothing engine related. Can you provide me a direct link please?
Thank you.
t3t4:
Here is the correct link: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8247.0 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8247.0)
This should take you to page 1.
Bill
Hi Everybody,
After reading through this whole thread I decided to build an Earth Battery. My first try resulted in 1.7 volts 13 milliamps. I was able to light a LED directly off it continuously. I also ran a calculator off it. I have built a lot of water, lemon batteries, etc. None of them worked nearly as well as this. I charged a completely empty bcap 650f overnight on the earth battery and then ran a small electric motor off it for over four hours. Here is the video link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAHmHm5vNA4
I look forward to participating on this great forum. I will continue to share my findings.
Merry Christmas,
LaserSaber
Excellent video!!
Your output is up there with the best of them, that is nice work. Now that you are using your b-cap, you will be able to do amazing things.
A word of advice on Youtube...just ignore the naysayers that will post things like..."fake", "that's not free energy" etc. You will also get a lot of good comments from folks that know this can be done.
Can you explain your set-up? Materials, alignments, etc? Your output is up there in the range of the best I have seen. If you just started using it, it will probably go up in a little while.
One other question: Your volt output is 1.7 volts, when you fill your b-cap, do you see a much higher voltage on the b-cap than your 1.7 volts like I do? If so, then this is another confirmation of the spikes being stored in the b-cap as usable power.
I am glad you are here with us and look forward to seeing more of your experiments.
Bill
Hi Pirate88179,
Your videos are what inspired me to start experimenting with this in the first place. Thanks for taking the time to post them.
I am on the road right now, but when I get back I will take a video showing and explaining my earth battery setup. I will say that I used a bundle of half inch carbon rods and one copper rod on the north end. On the south end I used a 1 inch magnesium rod stuck vertically in the ground. Attached to the magnesium rod I laid down 75 feet of magnesium ribbon 6 inches underground running south. Prior to adding the ribbon I was getting 1.5 volts at 3 milliamps. Adding the ribbon really upped my milliamps.
I have not left the capacitor on the earth battery long enough to establish how high it will charge in voltage. Do you use a joule thief to charge your capacitor off of your earth battery? I just connected my capacitor to the + and â€" leads of my earth battery. What are the dangers of getting shocked with one of these capacitors?
@lasersaber:
There is a danger with these big caps, to my knowledge, as they can store and produce amps, a lot of them, even if only for a short time. I believe it is like 3,000 amps if I am not mistaken so, please be careful when working with them.
I did not use a JT when charging my big cap. It was connected directly to the electrodes. Now, when running experiments for some of my videos, I did hook a JT to the circuit in parallel to the load.
What I have seen is that my 2.7 volts cap charges to about 2.6 volts, which in a cap means there are amps and volts, and this was with only 1.9 vdc input. Once I put the EER (or EB) on the scope, I saw all of these spikes that went off of the screen they were so big, I just figured that the cap sees these spikes as real energy and it fills the cap, much easier than a battery could.
Thank you for your kind words about my videos. I too was inspired by others on here and have learned a lot thanks to them. If you are doing this well out of the gate, I look forward to your results after you play with it a while. I believe that it is entirely possible that you will raise the bar for the rest of us. That was a very impressive video you made there. Thanks for joining us on our quest and I do look forward to you next experimental results.
Bill
@ Lasersaber,
Wellcome to the earth battery forum, please post any questions, results etc. ;)
I have a question for you.
You mentioned you have used magnesium ribbon, whats that stuff? do you get it in a roll of something?
How much was it?
I was thinking it would be possible to wrap some of it around a steel bar and see if it would work as the magnesium electrode.
what are your thoughts on this? :)
jim
@Jeanna,
Quote from: jeanna on October 28, 2009, 10:29:11 PM
I want to repeat the part where the farm he powered did not have a dishwasher dvd player and hair driers or washing machine in it.
So, powering his farm might be a little less heavy on the volts and amps than we use today.
In fact, in the mid 1900's people used way less than we do now and they did have all those things (not the dvd) even though tubes used a lot more amps than transistors do.
Ahhhh words of wisdom here.
jim
electricme
Here is a link to the ribbon: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380174293622&rvr_id=&crlp=1_263602_263622&UA=WXI6&GUID=b1498f001250a0b583967fc6ff970187&itemid=380174293622&ff4=263602_263622
I am going to try using it in different configurations in the ground and see what I can come up with.
Hi Bill (Pirate88179),
When you get a chance, would you please send me a private message with your personal e-mail. For some reason I have not been able to send out private messages for weeks now. I don't know what the problem is. I can still, however, receive PM's just fine. Very strange.
I need to get some personal advice from you about a project I am working on. I have not posted anything because there is nothing really too interesting to post about it yet. I really don't want to post my email address on this forum.
Thanks for your help in advance. If you don't want to send me your personal email address then let me know. I will figure something else out. Thanks,
RR2
Hi Everybody,
This morning I decided to try adding some copper wire running horizontally just under the ground to my north connection point. Guess what! For every few feet I added I gained milliamps. I added about 12 feet and now have 1.6 volts at 21 milliamps. This allows me to now run my motor with propeller continuously off my earth battery alone. I am not using a capacitor and the motor has been running all day. I even tried disconnecting my carbon rod and it just kept running. I am now going to do a bunch of experiments to establish my magnetic field lines, learn how to keep stepping up the milliamps etc.
I will post a video of the motor running with no capacitor later. It looks so cool to see a motor turning a propeller that is just connected to two wires running into the ground.
Merry Christmas
Laser:
Man that is great! Can you post a simple drawing of what you describe? Was this copper wire bare or insulated? Was it run in parallel from your south to the north, or just by itself? This is an interesting development here. 19mA's is what I get with my carbon and large block of magnesium so these are great numbers your cell is putting out.
Merry Christmas to you too.
Bill
Wow lasersaber,
I just need to cover my long copper wire instead of having it run on top and I will get more milliamps!
It is the simplicity of it. I love it.
Thank you for doing this and posting.
Please continue. I am up north and while it is not frozen this week, it is unpleasant to go out to do this, (but I might anyway.if you keep showing this...wow)
thank you,
jeanna
@lasersaber,
Excellent discovery you have made here, all this copper wire just running under the top soil, wow.
I wonder what would happen if I did the same with my roll of copper pipe I bought a couple of months ago, this is exciting stuff.
@all,
I have my satellite broadband dish and modem installed, guess what, it doesn't work, rather it's the networking card, boooohooo, and it's Christmas time, shops are shut, good thing I know someone who might be able to loan me a networking card, ha ha.
I got to be away for a few days over the Xmas break, ohhhhh no, and all these new discoveries and I have to wait, grrrrrrrr, not fair lol.
Merry Xmas's everybody.
jim
Here is a video showing my continuously running motor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr9eEaldcnY
I used bare copper wire.
Laser:
Great job there man! Now I see how you have it set up. Thanks for the video. Keep it up.
Jim:
That sucks about the broadband. What kind of idiot installer did they send out there to you? Well, Merry Christmas my friend. Maybe Santa can hook it up for you, ha ha.
Bill
The motor is still running. I have only disconnected it a few times to check voltage. I have added more distance on the north connection. I am now at 1.636 volts and 38 Milliamps. I need to test this running east to west and see if it works the same way. I will be making a detailed video showing exactly what I am doing. I have faith that I will easily be able to keep gaining milliamps as I have more time to work on this after the holidays.
I have made a bulk order of magnesium ribbon and special motors that start running at 10 milliamps. I should have plenty left to sell to anybody who wants some.
Has anybody noticed the effect frozen ground has on these? For the last two days the ground has frozen over hard. My voltage stayed the same but my milliamps dropped to 31 milliamps. I had 38 milliamps back when it was warm and rainy. Maybe I need to bury my wire deeper than a couple inches.
@ Pirate88179 (Bill),
Thanks, lol, I just got back home, and read your post.
No the chappy just made a honest mistake me thinks, anyway I have managed to download and burnt the LAN driver to CD, I will see what happens when I set it up later on.
I also bought a D-Link plug in card to try out if plan 1 dosent work.
Apparently my email address alters so I will need to head into my OU setup to alter that too.
I will keep you all informed on what happens, one way or the other.
@ Lasersaber,
Try boiling your jug/kettle, then poor hot water along the length of the ribbons, then see if your current goes up higher (simulate summer heat days).
That would be a good test to see if heat plays a role in our experiments.
jim
@ lasersaber
Hi, from freepow, have you tried enamelled covered copper wire ?
I tried 3x copper pipes joined together buried in ground running north from my verical copper pipe, made no difference in the mA's, dont know why ! Yet your copper wire seems to build up the mA's...
We need to build a EER (Earth battery) that can put out about 100 mA's (nothing is impossible) then maby feed into a Joule thief and run about 50-100 LED's for the house lights !!!
I went out a bought some 3/4 inch copper pipe thinking that I would see a huge increase in milliamps. I connected it up and noticed nothing. ??? The small 18 gauge bare copper wire seems to work best for me so far. It is also much cheaper. Right now my goal is 50 milliamps. Once I get there I will start trying for a 100 milliamps.
I think I will try the hot water idea and see what effect it has.
Hello Lasersaber from freepow in Australia, I'm trying to get high ma's out of 1x cell, dont know if it can be done...
Have you tried to make your own solar cells?
Quote from: lasersaber on December 27, 2009, 06:38:40 PM
Has anybody noticed the effect frozen ground has on these? ... Maybe I need to bury my wire deeper than a couple inches.
Yes, it sure does.
Since you are burying the wires why don't you top them off with 2-3 inches of peat moss instead of hot water. I suggest this because the peat moss will prevent freezing to a deep level and the hot water will soon freeze too. (It is an interesting test for heat, though.)
I am glad to hear it is the cheaper 18g wire.
I am also curious if enamelled wire will work as well. It is important to know it is not galvanic.
@freepow,
If you are able to start a joule thief at all from your EER, then you can run an infinite number of leds from its secondary by soldering them together in parallel. The higher number of secondary turns on the toroid will give you higher voltages, but you probably do not need more than 10 turns on the secondary if you do it this way.
I would love to see you and lasersaber do this!!
I will not be out in the back yard until april or may, so I need to watch you!!
thank you,
jeanna
@ Jeanna, Sorry for a dissapointment but as you will see in my photo's...
PLEASE READ ALL THIS CAREFULLY, THANKS
Photo 1, 1x EER lights only 1 LED EER output = .7 to .8 vdc at 4 mA's
Photo 2, 1x EER wont light 2 LED's EER output = .7 to .8 vdc at 4 mA's
Photo 3, 2x EER lights 1 LED brighter EER's output =.7 to .8 vdc at 7 mA's
Photo 4, 2x EER lights 2 LED's EER's output =.7 to .8 vdc at 7 mA's
Photo 5, 2x EER wont light 3 LED's EER's output =.7 to .8 vdc at 7 mA's
Photo 6, 2x EER wont light 3 LED's a clearer picture of 3 LED's EER's output =.7 to .8 vdc at 7 mA's
Photo 7, 1x AA battery lights 4 LED's very brightly AA output = 1.1 to 1.2 vdc at heaps of mA's
Photo 8, 1x AA battery lights 4 LED's clearer picture AA output = 1.1 to 1.2 vdc at heaps of mA's
As you can see the lower the mA's in a EER = less voltage at the output of a Joule thief
2x EER's had more mA's so I could light more LED's
1x AA has plenty of mA's and I know i've measured the output on a similar Joule thief which had 50+ vdc,
but my 1x EER only has .7 to .9 vdc at only about 4 mA and through the Joule thief it spikes at only...
3.8 vdc, so as far as I can tell then the more mA's you have in a EER = higher voltage output from your Joule thief.
Hi freepow.
I am not disappointed yet.
wrap 10 more turns around the toroid secondary for the EER.
I will look, but did you tell us how many secondary turns are on that toroid?
It does not take amps to light mine or my meter is lying which is possible.
Please let me know.
jeanna
@ Jeanna
30 turns on secondary and bif of 13,13 turns, I have found that the more mA's I have = the more voltage output I get out of my Joule thief, Am I wrong ?
Great info.
Are you ready? lets start here for 1 more post but since this is joule thief instructions it should be over there.
So, you probably need to "tune" the joule thief.
13T and 13T are way too much I bet.
Start by taking the 13T,13T down to 10T,10T.
If that doesn't work lower it more and more.
There is a way to wind the bifilar that is much easier to mess with which is a straight center-tapped way. Try this drawing:
/////||////////
that is supposed to be center tapped 5T,8T. Do you see?
If you do I will continue to use it.
Let me know if you need help with that part.
My guess is that the best tuning will be around 5T,8T.
If that is a tor-23 from allelectronics, that is exactly the tuning you want.
Also, get a variable resistor in the base resistor place so you can reduce or raise that.
The base resistance can go from 20r (lots of amps draw) to over 12K (gadget has said this or even higher, I forget.)
So, please let me know.
jeanna
Thanks Jeanna, I tried a 10,10 turn with 1x EER connected, but wont light 1 LED, when I connect 2x EER It lights 1 LED, so I tried 5,8 centre tapped with 1x EER and it lights LED very dimly, 2x EER it lights good, but with 2x EER and 2 LED's they both light very dimly...
what do you see in all of this?
Oh by the way, I forgot to mention I tuned the Joule thief in the photos above with a variable resistor, and best was at o ohms, so i just used a wire instead of resistor.
freepow,
I have done a little bit of solar panel experimenting. I know almost nothing about it.
Jeanne,
I have just started building joule thiefs. I get totally lost in the joule thief thread every time I start reading it. Is there a joule thief that you would recommend for me to use with my earth battery? I have the 5 for 1 toroid from electronics goldmine. Right now I'm pretty happy just lighting a single bright LED. If I could get lots of them lit then my earth battery might have some practical usefulness right now. I have over 30 milliamps to play with so I should be able to do it. Any advice you might have would be greatly appreciated. If I get it working I will post videos of it here on overunity. Maybe we should start a thread for earth battery specific joule thiefs.
Thanks
Quote from: freepow on December 28, 2009, 09:21:41 PM
Thanks Jeanna, I tried a 10,10 turn with 1x EER connected, but wont light 1 LED, when I connect 2x EER It lights 1 LED, so I tried 5,8 centre tapped with 1x EER and it lights LED very dimly, 2x EER it lights good, but with 2x EER and 2 LED's they both light very dimly...
what do you see in all of this?
Oh by the way, I forgot to mention I tuned the Joule thief in the photos above with a variable resistor, and best was at o ohms, so i just used a wire instead of resistor.
OK this is very interesting for other reasons, but for now please use something at the base resistor. 10 ohms is fine
Also just stick with the 1xEER for now. You may need to beef it up some, but since it does light with 5T,8T and 1xEER, this is the place I would start.
First, add another 10 turns of the secondary.
Also first put the pot back with 10 ohms, because you have some EER oscillations going on and you will need to tune the toroid to those as well as all the rest of it.
Take the primary down as far as 2T,8T,
If the light goes out or gets dimmer anywhere on the way to 2T stop and add the last turn back.
then start to reduce the 8T and watch the brightness.
The amps draw is related to the initial transistor switching, but if it is too little the volts off the secondary will be too low.
(I am coming to this realization:)
The amps are not being drawn by the leds off the secondary, but they need to have a high spike.
That high spike is derived from the initial amps draw that makes the first JT oscillations.
So, the higher the spike you can get for the least joule thief input the brighter the leds will shine.
The leds are drawing the frequency down, and when that gets too low, the lights will be too dim.
As the volts go up, the frequency goes down, and with an EER you have high frequency, but lets see what happens first.
Please let me know and I will respond from what happens.
jeanna
ps, what is the volts/mamps from the 1x and the 2x?
QuoteMaybe we should start a thread for earth battery specific joule thiefs.
Good idea... lets do that here. I will start it now.
@ Jeanna
Ok, 1x EER = .7 - .9 vdc at ~4 mA
2 x EER in parallel = .7 -.9 vdc at ~7 ma
I will now try to do what you said, I will post results tonight Australian time over at the Joule thief topic.
here is the new EER joule thief thread
So please post the info
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8540.0 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8540.0)
thank you,
jeanna
moved to new thread
@All,
Good idea for a EER Joule Thief Thread Jeanna.
--------------------------------------
Sad news here from me, I still cannot access Satellite Broadband, got a major problem with my Gigabyte Mother Board 8IG1000 Pro, the Ethernet Driver I need for it, I carn't find the exact driver, I carnt use the automatic driver finder as dialup is way toooo slow.
So if anyone feels like sending me the http address of the driver, please do so.
Also to compound the issue, I cannot install any printers, the Spooler wont start, I think I had better run sfc /scannow and see if this will fix my system files.
---------------------
@freepow,
Good observations you have been making there.
jim
Jim
Try here for driver:
http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Support/Motherboard/Driver_Model.aspx?ProductID=1760
Chris
Hi Chris,
I gave that to him a few minutes ago. I should have said so here. He is trying it out.
I hope it helps.
Now, you are next in line for high speed?
meanwhile those 2 guys trying out their new EER's should be up soon.
I look forward to their results.
It is too cold here to even think of doing anything without gloves.
jeanna
Jeanna:
Hey, I just had an idea. Maybe we can send high speed internet through the ground the same way Stubblefield sent his telephone conversations? No need to worry about the curvature of the earth or line of sight for WI FI, or bouncing off sats in the sky or cable run on poles...just through the earth. Anyone anywhere in the world could access high-speed internet by just sticking a rod or two in the ground and using the circuit that we will design.
I think this is possible.
Bill
Hi Jeanna
Yeah it's cold. No end in sight, just keeps getting colder, no warm breaks like Calif. Looking at 19 degree F high with low of 1 degree for New Year day. Good news is that maybe in a few months we will be moving. Maybe I will get a better connection to get around China FW?
Bill
I agree with you re receiving signals. After all, the ground connection is the other pole of all fixed antennas. In case you don't have it, here is a good link for ground antennas.
http://www.borderlands.com/newstuff/research/ground-ant.htm
It is frustrating for me because I have large rolls of coax cable sitting in my tool shed back home.
Chris
Quote from: Pirate88179 on December 30, 2009, 02:43:55 AM
Hey, I just had an idea. Maybe we can send high speed internet through the ground the same way Stubblefield sent his telephone conversations?
... using the circuit that we will design.
I have a long list.
And that is definitely on it.
And I think tishatsang and jim and gadget ... the radio guys.. can help.
;),
jeanna
@ Jeanna
Thanks for the Gigabyte links, it took me about 4 hours to do a scan and download the recommended software, no joy so far, it wouldn't setup.
@ Tishatang,
I have just downloaded from your web add site you recommended, I will try this and see what happens shortly after I send this.
I just remembered it is Chinese New Year, very colourful celebrations, lots of fireworks, I love those huge gigantic red firework strings with the ginormous top which goes off with a huge firework display.
You are in for a real treat Chris.
jim
Still havent done a SFC/scannow, will do this if all else fails.
@all,
Aerial Energy Observation.
Having been around batteries all my life, I have noticed something particular interresting with them, this is the white powder corrosion that formes only around the negative terminal.
When I have asked why this occurs, I have been told everything from A) it is just dirty terminals, to B) we just don't know.
Please look at the photograph, as we know, any electrical circuit needs whats is termed as a earth return.
I think the air is carrying out some function here, maybe it is aeather which is able to form a connection between the + and - terminals, and the circuit has the effect we see here.
Now, what would happen if the positive was connected to a earth stake, and the negative was connected to a aerial?
What would happen if several batteries were connected in series?
I might do this later, but I got to fly into town now.
Why did the pommies use Positive earth in their vehicles and everyone else used a negative earth?
jim
@Jim
Yes, China fireworks exciting. This will be my third winter here. I put on youtube before it was blocked of the fireworks in my city. Search under my user id tishatang. Whole city lit up for hours and hours. Really cold zero degree C. Now I can't access. Broke my camera anyway.
The early Ford six volt systems were positive ground. Maybe you have something here?
Chris
Jim:
First, best of luck to you on getting your internet set-up completed. I was going to do a search for you but Tishatang beat me to it.
I wish I could remember where I read this but, I did read that dc batteries can have the polarities reversed with no detrimental consequences. Maybe it was on the instructions for the 2 batteries (motorcycle) I bought for my Bedini replications, I really wish I could remember where this was. It said something to the effect that if you use a NEW battery one way, you must continue to use it in that manner but it did not matter which was "ground" and which was the + in the beginning.
Maybe some other smart folks here can shed some more light on this for us. Of course, with our Stubblefield research, we see that the "ground" (earth) can be both positive and negative which really blew the mind of one of my friends who is an electronics tech. when I showed him my set-up.
What does the government guy who hooked up your dish say about your situation? Seems to me like he should not have left UNTIL it worked and you were online with it. But hey, that's just my opinion.
Bill
electricme,
Just today I was out testing a lot of different configurations. I learned a lot that I will share later once I retest my findings. One thing I did was to run a galvanized steel wire about 6 feet up in the air on the south side of my earth battery. I had no ground connection at all on this south connection. My north connection was copper wire in the ground. I measured 1.010 volts on it. It had almost no milliamps. I tried burying this south wire and the voltage dropped to .900 volts but I gained milliamps. I found it fascinating that I could get over 1 volt by just running an air born wire to a grounded wire.
@Bill
I have seen a brand new lead acid battery dry charged to reverse polarity, I can happen.
But If you accidently reverse charge a battery, just put a lamp load on it for 24 hours, then recharge it the correct way, but make sure the battery is really dead flat first or it will fight the charger.
About the Activ8me tech installer, yep, he should have known better, I got his phone number so if all else fails, he will be rung.
This system is so new in Australia, that there is only a single web site avaliable for help, this is SATMAN in South Australia, turns out he is quite knowledgable with this system. I spoke to him yesterday and he has told me how to configure the satelite connection at my end, but I need to get the LAN or Ethernet up and running in the first place.
If anyone is reading this, and is willing to setup a web site dealing just with Activ8me Satellite Broadband hints on what to do when we run into trouble,,,,, that would be a huge help for people running into problems as the Activ8me just don't seem to want to do anything except take your money every month and provide NO backup, winge winge winge.
@tishatang
Just a very belated happy birthday to you,,,,,,,,,,,,now thats cheeky ;D
I have downloaded the file at the end of the Gigabyte tunnell, looks like Marvin 8001 has something to do with this, also EasyTune v6 seems to be the utility to inject it into the Marvin LAN chip. (from what I have been reading).
@lasersaber
I have been following your experiments with eager expectations, you are doing very well
I think you had capatacance reaction with your steel wire, while it was in the air, when you buryied the wire, then it, reverted to a EER cell, which was able to harness some miliamps.
If you take a look see at that link tishatang posted above it will explain it better.
jim
@All
Well it's all most midnight here, 2009 is at an end, 2010 is peeking around the door, there is a new years eve dance going on next door and I can hear the music, which isn't too bad at all I might add. ;)
I just got my Ethernet driver installed, ooooooha it's a good feeling, that sucker was giveing me greef big time, no mater how or what I did it just would not stick itself into windows system32, I had to crow bar it in.
I downloaded every driver (with help from everyones http links, thank you all) I could see from the gigabyte site related to my MB, unzipped them all, burnt them all to a single CD and told windows to go fetch. There was over 200mb of the little rotters.
It did, It found the correct driver and viola, I got LAN, yippee i O. ;D ;D ;D
The "yellow" Ethernet warning turned "Green".
Wouldnt it have been nice if Gigabyte had posted the above info on its web site? too easy huh! ???
Tomorra I will go and annoy the Activ8me chappies in india, u know, the ones I/we carnt understand how they speak when they try and explain "HowToInstallOrSetupTheSatelliteBroadbandConnection".
-------------------------------------
HAPPY NEW YEAR TO EVERYONE, even the phamptoms ;)
jim
Happy New Year 2010 Card to all
QuoteI found it fascinating that I could get over 1 volt by just running an air born wire to a grounded wire.
In his Lectures on Physics, Richard Feynman stated that as you go up from the surface of the earth, the electrical potential increases by about 100 volts per meter. Thus a vertical electric field gradient of 100 volts/meter exists in the air. This naturally occurring 100 volts per meter electric field gradient exists everywhere in the earth's atmosphere and can even penetrate inside most buildings.
http://www.imagineeringezine.com/e-zine/efield-1.htm
@electricme. A bummer having to use sat. Really overpriced for its capability's. Wireless towers are better and can transmit 50 miles and more. Its just finding an Isp who would do it. At least your not subjected to dialup any more!
@IotaYodi,
Thanks for those words of sympathy, he he, guess what, I think I have figured it out, how to use the Satellite Broadband, I am making my very first post here as I send this off on the forum, using Satellite.
I have disabled the Dial up, and lets see how it goes now.
As I did a spelling check, I noticed for the first time the ipstar modem TX/Rx blue LED was winking rapidly at me, lol, oh boy I sure hope it works.
I will take a look see at the http address you posted as a test also.
jim
@all
It seems to be working, ha ha ha, I took a look at the 2 tiny computer lights, double clicked on them, they havent registered any uploads or downloads in bytes yet, did I accidently figure out to get it for freee. hmmm prob not.
jim
Jim:
How is your speed? If you use Firefox as your browser, it will work even better. Way to go man!
Happy New Year everyone!!!!
Bill
Quote from: electricme on December 31, 2009, 09:28:35 PM
@all
It seems to be working, ha ha ha, I took a look at the 2 tiny computer lights, double clicked on them, they havent registered any uploads or downloads in bytes yet, did I accidently figure out to get it for freee. hmmm prob not.
jim
Congratulations Jim!!!
Probably the downloads are so fast the box barely flashes on the screen then is off.
That happened to me in california when I switched from dial up to dsl. (My dsl was faster there)
How is youtube? That will show you the speed by how much you can watch with no buffering.
:D
Happy New Year!!
jeanna
@Jeanna,
Yes, looks like I have sorted the Satellite Problem out at long last, (with the help of a lot of kind people) Just had a 6 hour Skype session with Bill, even managed to say hello to his cat too, lol, don't think the cat was too impressed with the Australian accent ha ha.
I have looked at 1 youtube, what a difference this was, the red down line going faster than the viewing play knob.
Now I have a new saying, "got to play Overunity UTube catch up"
I have a idea on how to use a switch arrangement to tune the joule thief, which I discussed with Bill, so I will post that on the JT forum.
Hooroo
jim
I went fishing in the freezing cold yesterday with my son who picked up some hand warmers. I had to read the package it's just my nature. Listed in the package was iron powder charcal salt vermiculite water. All the things you would know about if you were a farmer which you might learn will develop heat if you screwed up and mixed them together. Could the EB have also been a basic pelteir junction using disimular metals as part of it's operation to increase it's output. People are getting an output in ordinary soil maybe that extra umph to get it up to 1.5 volts could be realized with a bit of soil tweeking. Many things are considered a salt besides table salt but if any one has a extra EB sitting around they were not happy with can that person toss it in the ground with the materials from a hand warmer for a quick read. The ground here is too frozen and it is way too cold out to be chipping a hole in the ground with a hammer and chisel.
If it proves fruitful then you could have a series of eb's with every other in ordinary soil and string them together to make a useful battery.
@ All I haven't posted in this tread for a better part of a year, it took me about a week to catch up. I am also like on page 800 on the Joule Thief tread which is a fun challenge. I am amazed at the discoveries that Jeanna, Bill, MK, and many others have discovered. Also I am amazed at what lasersaber is able to accomplish. I knew that more mass equaled more MA from the incident when my carbon rod got shattered by a lawn mower and I used a piece and got the same voltage but a significant drop in MA. My thoughts where to buy the largest carbon rod I can find to gain enough power to create an electrical magnet; but that plan I had would call for me to have multiple carbon and magnesium rods to create multiple electrical magnets; Which would get expensive to say the least. Thanks to lasersaber discovery of using copper wire and magnesium ribbons, more mass which in turn means more amps can be added to the EER. Now for the crux of this post and to explain why I wanted to create multiple electrical magnets powered by the EER. An idea came to me last year to connect multiple EERs to their own super cap, then in turn connect each super cap in series. Though this approach is not impossible, it is problematic because of balancing voltage when hooking more than three super caps in series. So my new idea is to hook multiple EERs to their own soft iron, steel, ferrite, or anything that can make an electrical magnet rod. Use 555 timers to collapse the magnetic fields on each electrical magnet to induce electricity on multiple secondaries. My next step is to hook each secondary in series to get useable power. The important part is not to let any of the secondaries have any physical contact with the electrical magnet. This will in turn "fool" the EERs to act as individual cells yet combined their power. My knowledge in electronics is extremely limited so if anything I write here is incorrect or impractical please let me know. Also not to offend anyone who is not religiously incline but some of these ideas came to me while praying my rosary; that being said I would like to name the circuit of hooking multiple EERs to generators then hooking the generators together to get usable power; the Blessed Virgin Mary circuit or The BVM circuit. Also lasersaber spinning motors can be fitted with magnets; each hooked up to their own EERs then use multiple secondaries hooked up in series to get usable power. As I stated before my knowledge in electronics is extremely limited so let me know if anything I stated is incorrect or impractical. I just can't wait till winter ends so I can build one of these.
Kevin
Quote from: Doug1 on January 02, 2010, 07:41:29 AM
I went fishing in the freezing cold yesterday with my son who picked up some hand warmers.
.... Could the EB have also been a basic pelteir junction using disimilar metals as part of it's operation to increase it's output. People are getting an output in ordinary soil maybe that extra umph to get it up to 1.5 volts could be realized with a bit of soil tweeking. Many things are considered a salt besides table salt
...
What a good idea!
I love those things and would like to have the recipe for hard times... if you know it.
I would be very willing to sacrifice one of them to a NS generator.
I won't be doing it in the rain or cold either.
QuoteIf it proves fruitful then you could have a series of eb's with every other in ordinary soil and string them together to make a useful battery.
, however, so it will have to wait til spring.
Unfortunately the ground is all shorted and you cannot get them in series, but stubblefield might be workable with a little iron/perlite boost.
thanks.
@jim,
Quote
I have a idea on how to use a switch arrangement to tune the joule thief, which I discussed with Bill, so I will post that on the JT forum.
That will be great.
I look forward to seeing it.
jeanna
kevolts,
So far in my experience more mass has not increased milliamps. I tried using large copper pipes instead of wire and it produced the same amount as my small copper wire. What does seem to increase milliamps is extending the wire in length in a northern direction. I will be doing another experiment soon on my south connection to see whether mass or length has the greater effect on increasing power on that side. So far mass and even surface area has had a lot less effect on power than distance. I would love to hear what others have found. I have done nothing to my soil to try and increase the power of the earth battery. I really do not like the idea of messing with the soil to get more power. It seems to me that it might make the system more galvanic.
Quote from: lasersaber on January 02, 2010, 04:46:36 PM
So far mass and even surface area has had a lot less effect on power than distance.
THAT
is really good to hear.
I was wondering about surface area.
So, all you did was extend the wire and the mA got higher.
If you drop the roll of wire into a place near the meter, the nA do not improve.
It is so good to know... It makes me want to try to go out in the cold rain
(... not really)
thank you,
jeanna
@ lasersaber; ah so distance is the key. I really hope that is the case even though that would be a disadvantage for me (not a lot of land) but it would make increasing MA cheaper than mass. When it gets warmer in my neck of the woods New York City, I will go to the beach and test if sand can give off a charge as well.
In my limited experience distance has been what has got me up to 40 milliamps. It seems strange that after spending $50.00 on copper pipe I had no improvement over my $5.00 worth of copper wire. I did run out of property going north so I can understand what you are saying. I have a lot of room heading south so I am hoping for major improvements going that direction. I will keep you posted.
Quote from: lasersaber on January 02, 2010, 04:46:36 PM
kevolts,. What does seem to increase milliamps is extending the wire in length in a northern direction. I will be doing another experiment soon on my south connection to see whether mass or length has the greater effect on increasing power on that side. So far mass and even surface area has had a lot less effect on power than distance.
Hello everybody
It has been a long time sense I have been on this thread.
I have been reading alot lately trying to get a handle on what is going on with Teslas Hairpin circuit
I bought a book that also had a chapter in it about earth batterys and Stubblfield
It turns out I had read it before online..... so I am sure that there is a link to it somewhere in this thread.
I reread it today..........I got some new ideas based on what I have learned lately about radiant energy.
It is now very clear to me that Tesla and Stubblfield were both using non conventional power......
It is electrostatic rather than electromagnetic
I do not have time to read all the posts that I missed here.......so I am going to ask a question and hope that you have not been over this a hundred times already.
If I understand bifilar windings ....... I believe that they have more capacitance than a regular coil ....... if this is true.........just maybe Stubbfield mostly made a better capacitor.
Has anyone tried thinking of the currents in the earth as purely electrostatic?
A simple ground rod would work to tap a small amount of electrostatic energy from the earth
A larger ground would be better.
My theory is ......as the electrostatic waves pass a given point ........ they charge everything. in the ground........then they move on.
This leaves a small AC signal on a wire or ground rod
The ground rod could be thought of as an antenna in this application.
The better your antenna ......the more power you can pick up.
The problem with tapping this energy........at least as long as we are thinking of electromagnetic energy is the beter the antenna ( our ground ) the better it drains off any signal it does pick up.
I think the solution is to remember that it is electrostatic in nature.
All we are looking for is a small AC signal
We would need a capacitor connected to the ground ( antenna )
This cap would have to be the right size......to big and it will dampen or eliminate the voltage fluctuations
If it is to small it will block part of the power...... like a current limiting cap.
The idea is to block all DC and let the AC pass
Now ........ at first glance it may sound like if I am right about this......it would be good to drop the bi metal thing.
I am not sure that would be good.
I once read about making a small antenna that worked like a much larger antenna by powering it .....simply adding a small DC voltage to the antenna.........it somehow " sucks " the signal to it.
This article said that the antenna can function as if it was up to 100 times larger.
Of course with a regular antenna we are talking about electromagnetic waves.
If electrostatic waves do the same or are even more attracted to the DC signal ( galvanic voltage ) ...... it would explain how Stubblfield drew so much power from his units.
Anyway ..........it is a theory.
I would love to test these theorys .............but I don't have any land to plant wires in.
gary
Quote:
"The idea is to block all DC and let the AC pass "
"I once read about making a small antenna that worked like a much larger antenna by powering it .....simply adding a small DC voltage to the antenna.........it somehow " sucks " the signal to it. "
Gary, could it be that NS collected the earths DC voltage with either the copper or iron portion of his coil, and then added it to the AC collected with the copper or iron in a pulsed manner, to produce a stronger current ?
Regards...
Quote from: Cap-Z-ro on January 16, 2010, 06:34:03 AM
Gary, could it be that NS collected the earths DC voltage with either the copper or iron portion of his coil, and then added it to the AC collected with the copper or iron in a pulsed manner, to produce a stronger current ?
Regards...
Cap-Z-ro
He could have been doing that .....sense his coil was also his capacitor .......if my theory is right.
The point I was trying to make was not about that though
My intent was to bring up what now seems very clear to me......Stubbfield was using what Tesla called radiant energy......
The connection with the galvanic voltage occurred to me as I was writing the post ........probably because I was refering to the ground as an antenna.
Charging an antenna to increase its gain is fairly well know......but not really understood.
I had no idea how Stubblfield caused his coils to "pull " current up from the ground ......now I have a theory .
It is just a theory......... but it is like many pieces of the puzzle are just dropping into place. .
gary
@all
I never quite got why this battery still seems to elude most .
Its simple ?
MK1 did you try this? If yes how much power you're getting?
Thanks
Quote from: Mk1 on January 16, 2010, 02:41:56 PM
@all
I never quite got why this battery still seems to elude most .
Its simple ?
Try it.
It will be excellent to have your creative excellence join this endeavor!
It doesn't work as well as stubblefield evidently got it to work.
I have had the 5,6 connected together on my EER and I get nice results but they were still millivolts of jagged AC. And even then, I did not get any results from the secondary.
It is wired like a joule thief yet we are not to connect the outside wires to anything,
It is a magnetic inductor
an induction coil
galvanic battery (but a really bad one)
wired in the center tapped way of the joule thief.
It is very intriguing , and it eludes us all...so far!
There is a faint possiblity that what I did last summer will work if only I make it with a 2000 turn secondary!! But there was little indication that this would work because even with a low power joule thief you get at least one volt per turn on the secondary pick up and the secondary was like dead.
So, it might work, but we have still not been able to make it do that.
Some of us keep trying. ;)
@Gary,
your ideas are intriguing and add to this.
hmmm. :D
jeanna
@jeanna
Iron .85 copper .35 potential of .5v the electrolyte needs to be good ,it may have been done on purpose to not swallow earth kick.
It should be easy the use zinc plated iron , and silver plated copper .
Silver .15 zinc 1.25 potential 1.15v good electrolyte ,
anode must be covered not direct contact with electrolyte. That why you need cotton to cover it.
After that the battery need to be massive , there is no comment i see on the secondary material .
Line 65 on the patent , it is said :
when the ordinary (make and break *)of the
primary current produced within the coil 4 is made between the terminals of said coil 4
(make and break) On Off , connection of the battery generates current in the secondary.
You need to switch it , it was invented for the telegraph and that is a on off switch.
So how do you like this ?
Mark
http://www.google.com/patents?id=Q19NAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA1&dq=nathan+stubblefield+earth+battery&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=1#v=onepage&q=nathan%20stubblefield%20earth%20battery&f=false
All I can say now, Mark is that you must not have read much of this thread or the other one that Bill started about stubblefield bifilar coils.
I love this patent. I used to read it once per day as I was able to understand one more thing each time I tried.
It is very easy to SAY that it must be big, but it is not an easy thing to wind.
The cloth gets in the way and it becomes frustrating because you must make sure the cloth never moves away from the copper wire... ;)
You have the right ideas. Many people disagreed with me when I said the things you have just said.
Please make one and wind a secondary.
I know the ground is frozen where you live, but it makes an excellent joule thief with secondary. Now, is that not interesting?
Make one! you will like it, and you will be a most welcome addition to this thread.
And, yes it also picks up radiant energy too. It is an antenna. It is a little bit of everything that works!
jeanna
@jeanna
I would really do it if i had material for it , i still don't see how we we can't see that first it is made for a telegraph , you send impulse from the secondary .
When ever the lead 5 and 6 connect together like when the transistor on the joule thief , the core turns into an electro-magnet , like the ns battery to produced pulse on the secondary , that can only be seen on connect end disconnect. Edit :And most likely need to be rectified to be seen , just to be sure put a cap to see if it charges up.
So lets learn from this iron need a large enough to first produce enough magnetism at low current level and be easily coupled to the secondary .
Now the real fun would be to put a small transistor that would work on the same battery , and we would have a self run jt...
I will check what i have laying around.
But my budget is less then zero.
I hope this time it is clearer .
Mark
edit also i usually get better result from home battery after dipping the metal in metal javel.
Quote from: Mk1 on January 16, 2010, 08:07:49 PM
@jeanna
I would really do it if i had material for it , i still don't see how we we can't see that first it is made for a telegraph , you send impulse from the secondary .
When ever the lead 5 and 6 connect together like when the transistor on the joule thief , the core turns into an electro-magnet , like the ns battery to produced pulse on the secondary , that can only be seen on connect end disconnect. Edit :And most likely need to be rectified to be seen , just to be sure put a cap to see if it charges up.
I believe this IS what I was seeing last summer.
It was only millivolts. It also had a very wide variation and when I added something I thought might help the variations overlapped so much it was very hard to say for sure.
QuoteNow the real fun would be to put a small transistor that would work on the same battery , and we would have a self run jt...
How would you connect this?
I used the twisted 5,6 in the pos of the battery like a jt toroid and it worked really well., so it works well with a transistor, but I used an external battery.
You have 5 wire ends if you count the twisted 5.6 as one.
What would you connect/
I have a few of these lying around, and if you want to draw it, I could try it (inside, please... for now!)
Quote
edit also i usually get better result from home battery after dipping the metal in metal javel.
What is metal javel? Is that something that takes away rust?
jeanna
MK1:
We had discussed many possible ways to make the make/break device. I don't think anyone made one that worked, at least I know I didn't.
But, last year, I was thinking, like you, once I started making JT circuits. I thought, here is a make/break in a small package (transistor) that Stubblefield never had access to. It might (probably) have to be a germanium to work on low output but....this may be just the thing.
Bill
@jeanna
First step i would take would be to rectify the secondary , and put a cap on it.
Then pulse it by hand (connect 5 and 6 and disconnect several times).
I think we also need to be sure we have the wright design, how to do so.
First the bolt most of the time it is steel (tend to stay magnetic not bad but not the best) .
Lets say we built a jt around this bolt would it induce a spike in the secondary placed over it . and how many turns is needed.
Once the bolts and proper numbers of turn have been determined , we need to build the battery with those wires , we can assume an output of around 1.2 volts , same working range as the jt .
then we need a circuit to make and break the 5and 6 connection, not unlike a jt , i still have not figured it all but when NS went to the white house with his battery he also went with Nikolas Tesla , tesla saw the potential for a pulse on demand he most likely put his rotary switching system on it .
The problem we have his to separate the battery and electro magnet parts to see how they work together .
So we have one secondary , one electro magnet , and one battery , the question is how to induce a a pulse in the secondary , then it become obvious .
Now galvanized wire and bare+cotton permeable to electrolyte copper , it need to be strong enough to make a jt work on that bolt.
It is also said that we need electrolyte or earth , so no need to go outside.
Now we always look for magic in those old device , and yes you can pickup waves from many source at milivolt range , so it may be a wild goose chase .
It was also convenient to put those cell in the ground at the telegraph station .
Javex sorry starting the oxidation process. http://www.clorox.ca/products/usage.php?prod_id=clb
Mark
edit maybe we could use a ferrite rod instead of a bolt , maybe the same specs we use for the jt...
I tried the ferrite rod but I only had the one I got from cwx.
I think a welding rod will work.
Anyway, try something
and
read this thread from february '08 forward.
At some point not long after that like june '08, bill started another thread and there were 2 lines of thought and experiences.
It is worth reading both and much easier than reading the joule thief thread.
This way you will see results of many of the kinds of the things you have been thinking about.
jeanna
Here are a couple of links...
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3500.msg72680#msg72680 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3500.msg72680#msg72680)
That is the time when the plain earth battery thread began to look more seriously at stubblefield's patents
and
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4455.0 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4455.0)
This is the thread Bill started in April to focus on bifilar variants.
@Jeanna
Referring to my switchable JT primary windings
I apologise for this very late post regarding the below info, you have been very patient, I have had unforseen events occur which have held me back.
Quote from: jeanna on January 02, 2010, 04:21:50 PM
@jim,That will be great.
I look forward to seeing it.
jeanna
In the below photos there is a single toroid.
The left winding has 5 turns, the right winding has 6 turns.
Pass the wire over the top of the toroid, pass it downward and under-neath, when it comes to the outside edge of the toroid, pull the wire out to about 2 inches long, then fold the wire back along it's length. Don't Cut the wire. (This is turn 1).
Now twist this long "loop" all the way to the outside edge of the torid, so it will become tight against the toroid.
Wind "one" more turn around the toroid (turn 2), then make the 2 inch loop (same procedure as the 1st loop).
Now wind more turns around the toroid, making sure you have 2 inch loops to every turn you wind around the toroid.
How many loop ends you want to wind is up to you, but just remember you will need to buy the right rotary switch to reflect the number of loop ends you will have protruding from the toroid itself.
-------------------
The Center lead to the transistors base
OK, remember there is a loop end that you will need to preserve to solder a wire to, because this wire goes to the base of the transistor.
See photo.
------------------
Next, solder or "tin" the wires loop ends, about 1/2" from the toroid itself.
Cut the loop ends off so you have just short stubby copper wires.
-------------------
Next step is to get a "rainbow" ribbon cable wire, or even just single insulated wire, cut each wire about 6" long, strip and tinn the ends.
-------------------
Next solder the "rainbow" or single wires to the ends of the toroid copper wire ends.
------------------
Next get a "multy" gang switch, you will then have to "tin" each loop end and solder each "end" onto seperate switch terminals.
-------------------
Lastly, you must solder a wire to each "feeler contact" that feeds to the "ring" on each rotrary switch, each wire goes to seperate areas on the JT circuit.
Where the battery feeds into the JT toroid (in the circuit) this battery wire goes to the 1st rotary switch center contact.
Where the end of the wire which goes to the collector on the transistor, this goes to the center contact of the 2nd rotary switch
The single loop from the toroid, goes to the transistors base.
jim
more photos coming to make it as clear as mud. :D
More info on how to make a switchable input toroid Joule Thief.
JPG 2013
Here is the toroid with the finished turns, each turn I have "looped" by folding the copper wire, then twist this loop until it draws up towards the outside edge of the toroid.
jim.
thank you Jim,
This is very excellently explained. Very nice.
Now, please explain why you put it onto localjoe earth battery/ stubblefield thread?
I think some people who only look at joule thief would not see it here; and also, Is this a toroid instead of stubblefield? or maybe is this being fed specifically by an eer?
Did you mean to post it here?
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8540.0 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8540.0)
jeanna
Quote from: Mk1 on January 16, 2010, 08:07:49 PM
I just saw this website.
It relates here, and who knows maybe you first posted it last summer on the jt thread? Someone was using florist wire...
jeff cook coil
wow.
I need to keep reading the how to build page.
http://www.jeffreyncook.com/jeff%20cook%20effect/jeff%20cook%20coil%202.htm (http://www.jeffreyncook.com/jeff%20cook%20effect/jeff%20cook%20coil%202.htm)
hmmm
jeanna
Jeanna:
Wow! I got up to page 5 and I got totally lost. That is some pretty deep physics going on there. I am glad you posted this. I will have to re-read it a few times to see if it sinks in.
Bill
@Jeanna,
Quote from: jeanna on January 17, 2010, 02:08:12 PM
thank you Jim,
This is very excellently explained. Very nice.
Now, please explain why you put it onto localjoe earth battery/ stubblefield thread?
I think some people who only look at joule thief would not see it here; and also, Is this a toroid instead of stubblefield? or maybe is this being fed specifically by an eer?
Did you mean to post it here?
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8540.0 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8540.0)
jeanna
Hmmmm, you are right, it is on the wrong thread, sorry all.
Ever since Stefan changed the JT thread over to his new web system, (last year) I have been quite confused.
It used to be very simple and easy to get around his previous web site system, it had short headding names, and every page number was displayed at the bottom of each page, where I had been, it was highlighted, now it's impossible, especially as my sat broadband is slowed to even below dialup speeds, I have better speeds from 11pm at night, to 6am, but I have to sleep sometime so Im knobbled.
This makes it much harder to keep up.
I had more photos to post about the above item, made 2 attempts to post, just gave up in the end.
I will headover to JT and try there.
jim
Quote from: Pirate88179 on January 17, 2010, 04:56:00 PM
Jeanna:
Wow! I got up to page 5 and I got totally lost. That is some pretty deep physics going on there. I am glad you posted this. I will have to re-read it a few times to see if it sinks in.
Bill
Yes, isn't it cool?
I just pm'd him on his youtube account to ask if the wire needs to be covered.
I think making one of these is going to inform me of the next step in the stubblefield progress...I hope.
@jim,
I am sorry to hear your sat broadband is even worse.
Those crooks!!
jeanna
Hello everyone. I have not posted in a while, but that couldn't be helped. Anyway, I did not like my last NS EB, so I decided to make a new one, following the patent just as close as I could. I am thinking it might have turned out to be promising, but thought I would ask your opinion. Just for the heck of it, I thought I would see if I could charge my Boostcap (Maxwell 650F 2.7Volts) with my coil. First, I tested the cap and it read zero all around. (Brand new from Gadget) I have NO secondary on this coil as of yet, so I am only using the 5, 6 wires. I hooked up the boostcap and my first reading was at 5:30 tonight. Now, I don't know how to read a multimeter yet, so I will give you what it showed, and perhaps you can tell me how it is doing. It is definitely doing something. This first reading was taken perhaps about 30-40 minutes (I think) after starting the charge: 5:30 p.m.
Under Volts
20 = 0.22
2 = .228
200m = 1
Under Amps
20m = 7
200m = 106.8
Under Battery
1.5 V = .220
9V = 0.21
12V =0.21
****************************
Next reading was at 7:15 p.m.
Under Volts
20 = 0.26
2 = .268
200m = 1
Under Amps
20m = 1 (why would it go from 7 down to 1?)
200m = 125.4
Under Battery
1.5V = .260
9V = 0.25
12V = 0.25
I don't dare leave it charging all night, but I am thrilled it is doing something.......and this is with ONLY the coil primary, NO caps, NO diodes, NO resistors, NO battery, NO Secondary, NO JT, NO pulsing, NO Nuttin' but the coil. I think that is amazing, but that is just me. Now, in YOUR opinion is this good? Once I have the boostcap charged I will see what it will light. I have not gotten anything to light off the coil itself yet...and still don't have the secondary on. Weren't we supposed to only get useful energy off the secondary? Well, I think I am getting useful energy off the primary. :D
Edit: BTW the coil is damp only, and NOT in the ground!
Quote from: protonmom on January 24, 2010, 07:57:22 PM
Under Volts
20 = 0.22
2 = .228
200m = 1
Under Amps
20m = 7
200m = 106.8
Under Battery
1.5 V = .220
9V = 0.21
12V =0.21
****************************
Next reading was at 7:15 p.m.
Under Volts
20 = 0.26
2 = .268
200m = 1
Under Amps
20m = 1 (why would it go from 7 down to 1?)
200m = 125.4
Under Battery
1.5V = .260
9V = 0.25
12V = 0.25
I don't dare leave it charging all night, but I am thrilled it is doing something.......and this is with ONLY the coil primary, NO caps, NO diodes, NO resistors, NO battery, NO Secondary, NO JT, NO pulsing, NO Nuttin' but the coil. I think that is amazing, but that is just me. Now, in YOUR opinion is this good? Once I have the boostcap charged I will see what it will light. I have not gotten anything to light off the coil itself yet...and still don't have the secondary on. Weren't we supposed to only get useful energy off the secondary? Well, I think I am getting useful energy off the primary. :D
Edit: BTW the coil is damp only, and NOT in the ground!
Hi protonmom.
I think the readings are normal.
What you are giving us is different resolutions of the meter when it is reading the volts or amps etc.
Basically go to the last category before it says 1
The 1 is a way for the meter to complain that it is reading something off its chart.
Well... off the chart of the resolution.
So, if you are getting 268mV
You will be able to read 0.268 when the top allowable number would be 2 volts
but it would cry 1 when you put the dial onto the 200mv scale because you have 68 more than it can read on that scale.
So, in that amps reading, it didn't go down from 7 to 1, instead it went up from 7 to 125.4mA so it said, "1" meaning, "I cannot read this".
[I made a mistake in my answer but it is a good explanation so it stays.
I suspect it said 1 not 7 because it was in fact 106mA and the meter should be saying 1 at that point.]
It will be very interesting to see what you can collect in that bcap. Also how long it takes, which is also significant.
Then start the test over and see again.
In every case, my NS coils got lower results the second time, but I cannot remember if I was connecting the 5,6 into one twisted wire, and that might make a big difference.
I personally think this is showing the galvanic potential of your particular coil.
This is an important control test which should always be done before any ground tests.Thanks and carry on!
jeanna
Jeanna,
Thank you for explaining that about the 1. That has always bothered me. And what does a Negative 1 mean? ( Still so much to learn...) You are right about the 7. Maybe it WAS a 1. (????? not sure as I was certain at the time it said 7)
I agree that I am probably just getting galvanic juices from the coil at this time, since it is still damp. However, none of my other EB's charged up any caps...at least not like this one is doing. It makes me wonder how much better it will work once it is IN the ground and properly aligned. (or how much better it would work if I put it into a jar of water as Nathan suggested)
You mentioned not remembering whether or not you had twisted 5 and 6 together. Wires 5 and 6 would be connected or twisted together ONLY when you want to make an electromagnet. But for power they need to be separate.
I have a second Boostcap (brand new, uncharged) and will try that one too, later. I only hope I can remember how to make this coil for the next time because I didn't write a lot down. I know approx. how many turns for each layer, and I guess I know the size wire since I still have some. Yes, I do believe I can make another matching coil. If I can actually charge up this boostcap and put it to use, isnt that pretty good, seeing as how I did not put anything INTO the coil except water? Gadget said we have to make sure not to charge those boostcaps over 2.7 volts. I will be delighted to get it TO 2.7 volts!
I did notice that if I turned the coil a certain direction, it seemed to be more powerful. (Northwesterly) As soon as the ground thaws enough, I plan to bury the coil (s). Will take pictures if and when I start to make a new coil.
I just checked the boostcap again, and it is STILL climbing!!!! Hurrah!! Sure hope this works!
Wow, this is cool. You are doing great.
And to be able to have the documentation of the galvanic part is important.
I did not realize this until my last couple of NS generators.
I do hope you will make a very big secondary. None of us did that.
I have 2 with secondaries, both of which work, but they are both step down transformers, as they have fewer turns than the primary wires.
I realize now that I told you I had never gotten anything from my secondary.
For one thing it was because I had no scope.
Also, it was when they were in the ground that this was so, and also,
You will not see anything either if you do not have a scope.
This is what you are doing with the bcap that none of us ever did.
The way to account for the oscillations from the coil when there is no scope, is to collect them in a cap!!!!!!
It is coming together now for me.
Wow.
In the early joule thief days MK1 showed me how to collect the output in a cap so I could measure the output.
He and xee2 both still use this method.
So, make a full bridge rectifier,
This will take the oscillating stuff from the secondary and make it into a pos and a neg. then add another diode in the right direction to the pos side and another to the neg side, then connect this to a cap. (I used a fuji camera cap). wow it was amazing how it showed I had something that did not show up on the meter.
So, yeah, make another, but before anything, write down how many rows of wire the thickness and the materials anything you can think of then cover it up with hundreds of turns of a secondary, and then get it in a cap and maybe you have cracked this thing.
wow,
jeanna
Jeanna,
On that last EB, (the one I don't like) I did make a secondary...but did not get much usefulness off it. I think in order for a secondary to work well, it needs to be VERY CAREFULLY wound as neatly as possible. No scramble winding, just neat straight rows. (my opinion) Also, scraping off the ends until you are quite certain they are clean is important. You might THINK you have the ends clean but sometimes that enamel is still there. I saw someone burning it off, but I am not sure that is the best way to do it.
I do have an old clunker of a Tektronix scope, but I have not yet learned how to use it. I should have just bought a new one like you did. I think yours is hand-held, isn't it? It might take me years to learn to use the one I have. Not sure how to hook up the probes as it did not come with a manual, and the papers I found on it, online, are not much help with the probes either. I guess it will have to be "hit and miss" for awhile.
You wrote:
>>So, make a full bridge rectifier,This will take the oscillating stuff from the secondary and make it into a pos and a neg. then add another diode in the right direction to the pos side and another to the neg side, then connect this to a cap. (I used a fuji camera cap). wow it was amazing how it showed I had something that did not show up on the meter.<<
Can you post a drawing of how you connect the rectifier, and how you used the fuji? Thanks.
As far as "cracking" this coil, we probably have a lot more to learn. I am still not happy with the interpretation of his patent. The way they talked and wrote back then is so different from the way we do today. We have to learn to think as HE thought and try to imagine what he might have done given his circumstances. He surely had no Maxwell Boostcap, but he might have had some kine of homemade device that worked just as well...or better.
I will have to wait a bit before I can make any more coils due to finances, but will make them as soon as possible. Meanwhile, the cap is still gaining.
[/]
Hi Protonmom nice results that you managed to charge that cap.
I did a piece of aluminium with a cloth on it and rounded a coil to it. It is giving me around 0.5v at 0.7ma.
What setup you did to acquire such results?
Thanks
I have always believed that the silver globes always shown atop the NS device were a capacitor
The van de graff generator was a static generator which used a globe like those as caps.
So, I will have to say the bcap placed on those top wires is the way to go IMHO.
Also, the 2 secondaries that gave some results were both scramble wound and made without a sleeve between them and the primary.
When I made the secondary like the drawings they produced nothing and still do.
I have a bcap and a NS gen outside. It is sunny today so I may clip the bcap to the 10's and see what comes of it today.
Thanks for doing this and sharing it. It is so important.
Back a ways on this thread shortly after he arrived on the scene, jim electricme made an excellent description of ow to make a full bridge rectifier. I made one using his instrux and it worked really well.
If you look at his profile and look through his posts, you will find the text then you can click the link at the top of that post and get to where his whole post including picture is.
Once you do that it will be clear how the diodes need to be placed to continue the direction of what has been produced. I just collected it in the fuji cap because I did not have a bcap then.
jeanna
Hi Jeanna do you know what protonmom did to acquire these results please?
Thanks
Hi guruji,
I do not.
I think she was just very careful.
Maybe she is the one to ask.?
jeanna
==============
edit add
-------
I just put a cap across the 10's and I got 250mv
The ground is still so wet that the basic earth battery is all shorted...I think, or the copper wires are wet and dirty and need cleaning. The copper to NS North shows 650mv as EER, but the south side shows nothing really as EER from the center point of the 2.
The south side NS coil by itself is what made 250mv at the cap. But without moving the cap to the north side coil, I checked the ends straight with the meter, so I think there is something going on here.
It all is so close to what we were all doing last year.
I am amazed we never actually stuck a cap across those wires even though the meter said don't bother!!!
Well, I did put a cap across the top wires but it was the non can type. This is the can type that can collect something and accumulate it.
j
Guruji, Sorry it took so long to answer you but I was not online, and then it took forever to get BACK online for some reason. Slow internet....slow server.
Anyway, on the coil...I just took my time to make it as close to what I saw in the patent as I could. Once I get the money together to buy more materials, I will make some more coils and then take pictures and notes this time. I have most of it in my head, but I will know it better when doing hands-on. As for hooking the coil up to the Boost cap...that was just a lark. I figured it wouldn't hurt anything to try it. I am glad I did. I am pretty sure the readings I am getting right now are only from galvanic action, but if that is the case while it is OUT of the ground, then it will most likely give great results once I get it buried and aligned properly. Then if I make several of these, and hook them up together I should be able to get some decent power/energy of some sort. Jeanna thinks these are normal readings, and I am sure they are, too. Nothing spectacular except that I am gathering the little bits and pieces of electric juices and storing them in a capacitor. It is going slowly, but that might be good, too, especially for the boostcap. Time will tell. To me, the amazing thing is that I am actually seeing something happen with a coil that I MADE!!! with my own hands!!
Jeanna, yes, I have the picture of the bridge. I just wanted to see how YOU were hooking it up to YOUR coil. Then I can see how I can use it in MY coils. Remember, you are MUCH advanced in this, and I am only starting out. Anything I can SEE in pictures is a great help. Words are only words, but pictures are a thought come to life.
As for the Van de graf generators, I have some doubts. You are probably right, but I keep thinking of all the Stubblefield Farm pictures I have seen, and some other ideas pop up in my head. I am most likely wrong, so I wont say anything about it yet.
If you make some of those globes then please post a photo of them. Thanks.
Good to see you are still here Protonmom! Just to add a little to Jennas info.
You will see a Neg reading if the probes are reversed as to polarity. Check an aa battery with the negative or common probe on the positive end of the battery.
NS coil thoughts:
Stubblefield knew that being damp or wet increased the power. He may or may not have known why. Its the oxidation creating the rust which is iron oxide. Over time it increases in depth on the wire. Its the iron content that helps build up the field. Thats why the coils were so potent after many years. Being immersed in water keeps the oxidation going and the iron oxide formation at a constant rate. Same story on the core or bolt. The more iron content in the bolt the better. Back then the bolts may have had a higher iron content than todays steel bolts. Soft iron will give the max efficiency. You can heat up a steel bolt and steel wire and then expose them to water and air which will accelerate the rust quicker on the surface. Then wind the coil.
The coil: A current carrying wire will induce capacitance when 2 wires are running parallel close together like in the Ns coil. The wires should be wound as tight together as you can make it and its shape maintained tightly together. Hence the nut and bolt he used. This makes the em field more uniform also. Over time I would think the capacitance or charge would increase in the coil relative to the depth of oxidation on the wire. This seems evident when they pulled out these old telegraph coils.
Lasers experiment: Great work! The statement of surface area not being relevant is wrong in my opinion. There is more surface area being energized on the wire running east and west as the north and south telluric currents run into it broad side. This deserves attention. Running the wire east and west at 90 degrees to the local magnetic deviation may produce more power. A wild idea would be putting a Jt at the south end of the wire and "tune" the wire to see what happens. This may already have been mentioned.
Just a few thoughts fwiw!
Quote from: protonmom on January 25, 2010, 06:50:47 PM
Jeanna, yes, I have the picture of the bridge. I just wanted to see how YOU were hooking it up to YOUR coil.
I am afraid I do not have that going anymore.
It was for a joule thief secondary.
I connected the ~ sides to each secondary and the + diode side as jim drew it had the stripe in a certain direction, so I added another diode to that juncture then from that to the pos side of the cap. (not the boost cap since this was 60 volts or more)
Then I did the same to the - side with an additional diode reinforcing the direction there too.
Quote...
As for the Van de graf generators, I have some doubts. You are probably right, but I keep thinking of all the Stubblefield Farm pictures I have seen, and some other ideas pop up in my head. I am most likely wrong, so I wont say anything about it yet.
If you make some of those globes then please post a photo of them. Thanks.
About the vandegraff globes, it was just that it made me think that putting a capacitor there was what he was doing and using the globe too... maybe not, but the cap working seems right.
About not saying what you are thinking about.
I truly believe that the reason I learned so much so fast, is because I said my thoughts.
From there, I got a lot of ideas and feedback which allowed me to have more ideas and then I tried things I thought of from those ideas. The thread acted like a real think tank where ideas fed each other's ideas. When it got to be too many ideas, I just tried a bunch of them, etc.
So, please let me encourage you to speak your ideas.
Even if they are "wrong" they might spark an idea in someone else.
Remember we have not cracked this one yet!
So far all our ideas have been "wrong". but there is no such thing as wrong in an environment of experimentation... please remember that.
We are still interested in new ideas.
jeanna
IotaYodi...Hi! Yes, I am still around. I have been reading and trying hard to get caught up, but I think it is hopeless. The faster I go, the behinder I get.
So, is the negative ALWAYS an indication of reversed polarity or could there be a problem with the dmm? The reason I ask is because the numbers come out pos on most readings, and then neg on only a couple. I think it was the 20m and 200m where it showed as negative. I will check my fuse on the dmm tomorrow just to make sure.
Quote from: protonmom on January 25, 2010, 09:01:59 PM
IotaYodi...Hi! Yes, I am still around. I have been reading and trying hard to get caught up, but I think it is hopeless. The faster I go, the behinder I get.
So, is the negative ALWAYS an indication of reversed polarity or could there be a problem with the dmm? The reason I ask is because the numbers come out pos on most readings, and then neg on only a couple. I think it was the 20m and 200m where it showed as negative. I will check my fuse on the dmm tomorrow just to make sure.
With my experience with the EB and the EER I have seen that when you get a minus on the DMM it means you need to reverse the leads. (polarity) when i was testing trees for energy, I saw this a lot. Some trees were positive and other negative.
I hope this helps.
Bill
Quote from: protonmom on January 25, 2010, 06:24:22 PM
Guruji, Sorry it took so long to answer you but I was not online, and then it took forever to get BACK online for some reason. Slow internet....slow server.
Anyway, on the coil...I just took my time to make it as close to what I saw in the patent as I could. Once I get the money together to buy more materials, I will make some more coils and then take pictures and notes this time. I have most of it in my head, but I will know it better when doing hands-on. As for hooking the coil up to the Boost cap...that was just a lark. I figured it wouldn't hurt anything to try it. I am glad I did. I am pretty sure the readings I am getting right now are only from galvanic action, but if that is the case while it is OUT of the ground, then it will most likely give great results once I get it buried and aligned properly. Then if I make several of these, and hook them up together I should be able to get some decent power/energy of some sort. Jeanna thinks these are normal readings, and I am sure they are, too. Nothing spectacular except that I am gathering the little bits and pieces of electric juices and storing them in a capacitor. It is going slowly, but that might be good, too, especially for the boostcap. Time will tell. To me, the amazing thing is that I am actually seeing something happen with a coil that I MADE!!! with my own hands!!
HI Protonmom I read the patent too but sometimes it's not that easy that one understand things exactly as written.
I tried to wind a bare coil to a piece of aluminium and a cloth in between but as said before it's only givimg me .5ma and .5v . What I'm doing wrong so?.
Any help please Protonmom?
Thanks
I am definitely the wrong person to be asking questions of since I am new at this myself. However, what is this with a bare wire and aluminum???? Doesn't that sound like a short to you? I don't get that one at all. If you are wanting to make a coil such as Nathan Stubblefield had then it is best to do exactly as he says in the patent, and that patent does not say anything about bare wire on aluminum. Or are you just pulling my leg?
Checked my cap reading this morning. It is still rising, steadily albeit slowly. At least it has not stopped. I am allowing the coil to dry out as it charges the cap to see what happens...(how long it continues to charge). Then I will test it with a constantly damp coil. I plan to bury this in a spot where it will be sure to keep damp all summer and winter. Actually for three days now the coil has been drying out, and it is still charging the cap...so that looks promising to me.
Edit: I also plan to make a large secondary for this coil.
Quote from: protonmom on January 26, 2010, 09:58:55 AM
I am definitely the wrong person to be asking questions of since I am new at this myself. However, what is this with a bare wire and aluminum???? Doesn't that sound like a short to you? I don't get that one at all. If you are wanting to make a coil such as Nathan Stubblefield had then it is best to do exactly as he says in the patent, and that patent does not say anything about bare wire on aluminum. Or are you just pulling my leg?
Hi Protonmom no I'm not pulling your leg ;D. You're making me laugh as if you're keeping a secret lol.
Ok ok if you feel that way it's ok but it's very nice to share too.
I did aluminium and copper cause that what I read on other earth batteries. Nathan Stubblefield mentions copper and iron bolt as I remember with many layers with cloth in between.
Does anyone tried with a secondary as he mentions?.
Thanks
Quote from: guruji on January 26, 2010, 02:43:39 PM
Hi Protonmom no I'm not pulling your leg ;D. You're making me laugh as if you're keeping a secret lol.
Ok ok if you feel that way it's ok but it's very nice to share too.
I did aluminium and copper cause that what I read on other earth batteries. Nathan Stubblefield mentions copper and iron bolt as I remember with many layers with cloth in between.
Does anyone tried with a secondary as he mentions?.
Thanks
Guruji,
You must have decided there is no point in reading this thread!
Many of us made some kind of secondary and I reported my results.
I know a lot more now than I did then, but my results are still there for anyone to read.
Bill started another thread aboutNathan Stubblefield, and this patent and used the word bifilar in the title.
Again, if you read this thread [as protonmom did more than once through!!], you will know where that link is.
Also by reading this thread, you will have many of your questions answered.
And, very possibly you will be inspired with new ideas as protonmom has been.
So, please keep on reading and experimenting.
jeanna
Guruji,
I suppose there ARE other earth batteries out there that may use aluminum. And I guess I mis-read you because I thought you had said you were putting the wires together bare, and clearly now I see that is NOT what you said. My mistake. The only thing I can tell you is that if you follow Stubblefield's patent then you should come up with the same as I. Just be very careful and take your time winding. This is my 4th NS EB, and I was determined to do it right this time.
As for you thinking I am hiding anything:
I am not sure what to say..... ??? If I had wanted to hide anything I never would have said a word. Rest assured that is NOT my intention.
Now an update: Remember I said take your time and wind carefully? Well, guess what? I found a short! So now I am in the process of un-winding the whole shebang and starting it anew. But that is good, because now I can take notes....and I am sure that short is the reason the cap was charging so slowly. I will have it all back together, hopefully by tomorrow...and then will start charging again. I think it might be best if I totally discharge the cap and start fresh with that, too. (or use the new one) Anyone know HOW I should go about discharging the 650F boostcap? Gadget are you there????? Or, should I just leave what little juice is in there and continue where I left off, as soon as the coil is back together? Advice, anyone?
protonmom:
Please be very careful with the boost cap when discharging it. That thing can exceed over 3,000 amps (not mA's) and if you short it to discharge, it will melt even a very heavy gauge wire in a millisecond!!! (Plenty more than is needed to kill you as only 1/10 of an amp will do it)
While you are rewinding and fixing your coil, why not just hook your b-cap up to a jt circuit or something similar and let it run some lights for you? Or, just leave it charged as it is until you get the other coil back up?
Gadget knows more about these caps than I do. You could try to pm him. I just wanted to warn you of the dangers in case you were not aware, which you probably were which is why you were asking how to discharge it.
Bill
I was reading a book on Terslas work studying for my hairpin thread.......I stumbled across something that gave me another theory about the Stubblefield battery
This book had a page of pictures of armatures from motors Tesla invented........it breafly explained some of them.
One of them was described as Iron bars cast into a copper cylinder
It said that it worked because the PHASE of iron and copper were different.
This phase difference is clearly enough to drive a motor.
If it applies to currents in conductors ......then a Stubblfield cell might work exactly like a Sterling engine.
I will explain
Assuming we start with a pulse across the copper and iron coils.
The pulse will induce a pulse in the metal that has leads the other in phase ......the pulse will then be drawn into the other winding because it following just behind the first coil
Now.........BOTH of these coils will be creating a magnetic field and flyback as the fields collapse
When BOTH coils are at their combined peak .... The voltage may be high enough to create a powerful pulse in the secondary.
I am thinking that the 3 coils have to be connected in series ........ faster primary metal........ slower primary metal ......secondary
IF the secondary is large enough that the flyback pulse from the pulse collapsing is enough to induce a pulse to the primary winding then we have a complete loop .......an electrical sterling engine
The output would be between the end of the secondary and the start of the faster metal primary
I am thinking that this thing would produce pulsing DC ........because it looks to me like the pulses would be sucked into the next stage as it rotates around the circuit.
If all these coils were tuned to earth energy frequencys a starting pulse might not be needed.
I have no idea if the galvanic effect of the battery is needed for this process ...... clearly if it would run well without the galvanic process the cell would last longer.
gary
Edit
It would be nice if someone with a dual trace scope and a Stubblfield battery could test this theory for me.
All that would be required is to apply a signal to the seconmdary of a stubblfield coil ( maybe from a JT )
The scope leads go to the copper and iron windings.
It would be ideal if one of the metals lagged behind by around 90 degrees ......like a sterling
resonance man;
You said:
>>I was reading a book on Terslas work studying for my hairpin thread.......
I stumbled across something that gave me another theory about the Stubblefield battery
This book had a page of pictures of armatures from motors Tesla invented........it breafly explained some of them.<<
What book was this so I can look it up? It sounds interesting, and perhaps I could understand what you are saying if I read the book/article.
Thanks in advance.
Pirate;
Thanks. Yes, I was aware of the dangers as Gadget had told me about that. I just didn't know exactly how to discharge it. I don't need any fried fingers, or worse!
I had company all day, so tomorrow I will start on the new coils...and the repair of this one too. All newbeez would be wise to learn from my mistakes or the mistakes made by any of the other members...so then they can avoid making those same errors.
All;
Anyone seen or heard from Gadget lately?
@ Protomom,
Good work on your stubblefield project, don't worry about not knowing it all at once, as you will follow your own instincts and this will reveal more secrets we all have missed.
Keep those results coming.
--------------------
To discharge a capacitor you can make up a couple of "tools" that can do this in a safe manner.
Method 1
Look at the caps voltage rating, for instance if it is 16v, then grab a couple of 12v festoon trailer light globes, solder them in series together, then take 2 separate wires, solder one wire to one of the ends, solder the other wire to the other end of the other light globe.
Attach alligator clip to the free ends, put one clip onto one of the caps terminals, out the other clip on the other terminal, the bulb should light and discharge the cap. Leave it across the cap after the bulb goes out for at least a minute, as residual voltage within can recharge the cap by itself.
Don't short out supercaps or even the ordinary electrolytics, they might not be able to take the huge discharge currents in a split second.
I have had the learning experience of an exploading cap (1000uf 16v), it does hurt when the flying can hits you, broke the skin also, so be careful with them.
Method 2
Get a 5 watt 20 ohm resistor and solder a wire to each end, etc etc.
You can put a small switch on one wire, so it can be left in circuit forever, just turn off the switch when using the cap, turn it on after all tests are over.
--------------------
Iron wire with Aluminium wire, should work OK, aluminium and copper not being Ferris in nature, you just need to insulate one or the other.
Neatness of windings is paramount, and difficult to achieve, a pain in the derry air..
------------------------
@all
Sorry to have been away, got some rather huge issues here I am dealing with.
1 "a" daughter discovered with cancer, had 1 opp and more to follow.
2 "a" wife in hospital with extream dizziness, cant even sit up.
3 Two flat tyres in 1 week, small screw in 1 tyre, nicked valve stem in the other one,
4 Brother flying out to another country today as I type this out and send, wont see him for at least 2 years.
5 very crappy Activ8 satellite service, 1 hour waits are normal, phone on hold, discovered all my uploads reflect 2/3rds of my downloads.
Speed knobbled from 500kb (should be 100megs as the advertisement says) to at times below 2k when you go over the plan.
This is lower then "good old dial up" should have stayed with the old provider lol.
6 F&P washing machine has a bearing seized on its shaft, I can wash clothes but no spin, so that's another thing to fix, hanging wet washing on the line feels cool on a hot day, so it's something OK lol..
No 1 takes all priory just now.
Have been burning the midnight oil looking up Rife machines, (gota build one) found a chap in Sydney who is willing to loan her one.
---------------------------
Very interresting the last 2 pages on tubblefield stuff, as Jeanna said, wow, is correct, more KEYs here being "revealed" to get a protype working, must get back into making my Stubfield winding jig machine.
jim
Here is a discharge thingie.
jim
Hello ALL,
I came across this little gem of a patent and thought I would share. It is dated 1984...
http://www.google.com/patents?id=XjcuAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&source=gbs_overview_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q=&f=false
Cheers,
Bruce
http://energyfreedomreport.com
@jim
Hi , sorry to hear about your stroke of bad luck , all my best wishes ...
But the satellite i maybe able to help.
there has to be a way to see the signal strength , it usually needs 25 % to start receiving it will work but if it rains up north ( aussie other wise south for northern hemisphere) but the sun is bright at home it will not work, the signal need to be set the 95 % and up for reliability. Ok now look where the dish is aiming is there anything in front of it. I have seen wood electric pole swell in the heat of summer and the satellite started working 30 after dark.
so never assume is ok , make sure . Most of the winter install do not work in summer , because of the leaf grown since.
Other wise the right cable don't substitute rg59 for rg6.
Otherwise maybe sunspots at solstice .
I hope this will help .
Mark
Joe,
Sorry that you did not understand my experiments as I was not interested in the coil stubblefield had. I was only interested in the transmission aspect of stubblefield. and yes I did know how the coil worked. I had all of borderlands research papers and much more. You also missed how the coil is really connected that he did not show in the patent, you read well. You also missed what the actual energy is or you would have it working by now. The most important thing is how it modulates "the magnetic currents of the Earth", power is not the problem here. The power comes from two points in the system and yes it does generate useable power to do things with, Use a galvanometer you might see something. normal meters are giving false readings. So yes I'm a poor soul as you say. The other thing the earth currents work with very high impedance coils and work well if you have the right metals.
So please do not sell me short, as I do not think that way of you. Nice to meet you too. I never understood what it is with you people with current meters as they do not apply to these systems at all. you can not measure radiant current that way, try an electroscope you would have better luck.
John B
Quote from: Localjoe on February 01, 2008, 08:38:52 PM
To all
I just got through reading bedini's whole page... even he didnt understand there were two seperate devices... amazing ... i feel like i deserve gold star..
On bedini's page it says
In addition to this bimetallic winding, there is a third winding: the "secondary". This third coil is insulated from the primary bimetallic coil, serving as a trigger device. Presumably, a stimulating impulse shock was introduced into the tertiary coil, after which the upwelling electrical ground response brought forth powerful currents in both iron and copper coils.....
This is completely wrong he mis understood the patent .. because later he writes..
Furthermore, though the Stubblefield power receiver is wound like an induction coil, it produces a steady direct current output. This poses additional problems for the conventional engineer. Electrical induction only occurs with electrical alternations, oscillations, and impulses.
Poor guy answered his own questions... we provide the oscillations in the primary and the power comes out the secondary ..... not visa versa.. what was he thinking.. That dis info must have made it to 20 other pages and people took that to be true without reading the patent... shame on him.
what he does bring up that is very important but not entirely true because we know Tesla and Stubblefield worked together at some point is
Stubblefield may have discovered the auto-magnifying voltage effect of electrostatic induction in coils before Tesla, who later utilized the effect in his special electrostatic Transformers.
hence the real accounts of intense surges after a rain storm......
John:
I am a big fan of yours and have built many of your motors. have you seen the work done by Jonnydavro (here and on youtube) and Lidmotor (Youtube and Energetic forum) with the no bearing one magnet Bedini motor?
I was able to run one of these from my earth battery. Your original design is brilliant.
I look at the Orbo work and see your motor. I am sorry but, that is what they are doing. Please keep up your excellent work and continue to post here on OU.com.
Bill
Hi Bill,
Yes I have seen that by Johnny D,
He did great work on that it should show everybody something and yes I have transmitted for miles until I was stopped by the FCC. The major point is Stubbelfield had three coils The patent office made him or did not allow him to show the interrupter in the coil, that is how he produced the Arc lighting.
I was very lucky the FCC did not fine me so I put the work away. When transmitting with that system you must worry about the low frequency bands., That is what got me into trouble. I have read all the posts, The meters are the problem make you own to measure with. Think High impedance here the higher the better You will see the potential then it will light anything you want and run motors. And I have seen your vids, excellent work on your part.
John B
Quote from: Pirate88179 on January 29, 2010, 01:21:43 AM
John:
I am a big fan of yours and have built many of your motors. have you seen the work done by Jonnydavro (here and on youtube) and Lidmotor (Youtube and Energetic forum) with the no bearing one magnet Bedini motor?
I was able to run one of these from my earth battery. Your original design is brilliant.
I look at the Orbo work and see your motor. I am sorry but, that is what they are doing. Please keep up your excellent work and continue to post here on OU.com.
Bill
Quote from: john_bedini on January 29, 2010, 01:13:23 AM
.....
So please do not sell me short, as I do not think that way of you. Nice to meet you too. I never understood what it is with you people with current meters as they do not apply to these systems at all. you can not measure radiant current that way, try an electroscope you would have better luck.
John B
Hello John,
I am very glad you have peeked in here.
Those early posts were unfortunate.
Most people here respect you and your work.
I and many others were/are just learning about electronics.
I insist on doing it by experimenting. This is how I learn.
And I have been holding out to get my NS generators to work.
It helps a lot to have a scope. I actually did use my galvanometer (self made) on the wires, but I did not make any with a secondary that was long enough.
What is an electroscope? Can I make one of these?
I would dearly love to know how to make these NS generators produce something.
BTW, you and your website are the reason I knew anything about NS at all. I even have a copy of all of your website on a very old computer from (I think 1999- unless 1997).
I am now in the process of making a ssg and recharger, and figuring how to make a stand for a bicycle wheel.
thank you,
jeanna
Jeanna,
Thank you very much.
This is how we learn, your work is extremely good and I'm just hoping for you to lower the current on your Joule Thief.
And yes you can make that with tin foil strips in a glass jar. when the electrostatic potential is near to it the tin foil strips will repel and you will know the high potential is there.
Earth Batteries use very high impedance, that means that the coils have many turns in the thousands, hard to wind.
Google the electroscope they show you how to make them.
Happy to meet you Jeanna.
John B
Quote from: jeanna on January 29, 2010, 01:49:04 AM
Hello John,
I am very glad you have peeked in here.
Those early posts were unfortunate.
Most people here respect you and your work.
I and many others were/are just learning about electronics.
I insist on doing it by experimenting. This is how I learn.
And I have been holding out to get my NS generators to work.
It helps a lot to have a scope. I actually did use my galvanometer (self made) on the wires, but I did not make any with a secondary that was long enough.
What is an electroscope? Can I make one of these?
I would dearly love to know how to make these NS generators produce something.
BTW, you and your website are the reason I knew anything about NS at all. I even have a copy of all of your website on a very old computer from (I think 1999- unless 1997).
I am now in the process of making a ssg and recharger, and figuring how to make a stand for a bicycle wheel.
A,
jeanna
Oh thousands. That will be hard.
I had the idea recently that on my next NS generator I would use mag wire and sand off the varnish on the first one or two rows only.I figure the galvanic start is not needed throughout the whole coil and this would make it easier to wind a bigger coil because I would not need to cover all of it with cloth.
I could make a smaller one like the others first and compare before I make one with thousands of turns. ;)
Did you ever try something like this?
I will look up electroscope.
thank you,
jeanna
EDIT
I have parts to an electroscope hanging from my fake candelabra in my kitchen!
Cool.
Now, I am really puzzled how NS would have used this.
I live in the soggy northwest, and I need to rub a pvc pipe with a mohair mitten in the winter just to get the hairs on my arm to stand up!
I cannot imagine using static to show anything around here!!
Hey everybody check this out.
Here is a good start. I will check back for more in the morning!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j4piAI_igE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j4piAI_igE)
an electroscope (a fancy one, not like the one I made!) and a culomb meter!
Charging something by induction!!
wow cool!
(and I am thinking about those balls atop the NS generators again- ha!)
jeanna
QuoteEarth Batteries use very high impedance, that means that the coils have many turns in the thousands, hard to wind.
This seems to be right in line with my observations. I have run well over a thousand feet of wire and the current just kept getting stronger.
I have decided to start my own Stubblefield replication. I have read over his patent for the last few months and I think I know exactly how his design works. I will build one exactly as I understand his design and see what happens.
@John Bedini:
Hello and welcome. I hope you will stay here with us and direct us in the making of these Stubblefield coils. Is there any way we can get copies of the Borderlands articles? Or, could you make a pdf and post it in the downloads section for us? On the Stubblefield photos there are posts in the ground with globes on top of them. What were they used for and how do we make them? Any help would be much appreciated by all of us.
To all,
Just remember that earth currents run one against each other in streams so choose your area correctly. Semiconductor devices are based on current flow, low impedance. Earth batteries work the other way around with very high impedance, high resistance. The galvanometer must be wound with very fine wire to react to this feeble current. where does the radiant electricity show up? It shows up in a high impedance without the use of current.
People like to call this back emf. The back emf of the system is always much lower then the input voltage. The spike is the true Radiant energy and it can do things current can not do. It can charge batteries, run motors, light lights and so on. Converting the Radiant energy must be converted in the collector circuit with a semiconductor and not the emitter. You must drain that off to charge something like a capacitor, and then only is it real measurable electricity. So you must understand the system you are trying to build first.
Earth batteries must be converted through capacitors then be switch in the arrangement of capacitors for the proper voltage to power things. The SG is an example of collecting Radiant energy and converting it by chemical reaction into a second battery. "Get an Earth Oscillator running and collect the Radiant energy into a capacitor". Stubblefield is just a starting point for this energy. You have posted about collecting energy from trees, you just do not have the switching circuits. Remember it takes some power to run that switching, but they did not talk about that.
John B
Quote from: lasersaber on January 29, 2010, 06:43:48 AM
This seems to be right in line with my observations. I have run well over a thousand feet of wire and the current just kept getting stronger.
I have decided to start my own Stubblefield replication. I have read over his patent for the last few months and I think I know exactly how his design works. I will build one exactly as I understand his design and see what happens.
Protonmom,
I will ask for the information from the guy that had all this. I do not know if he will let me scan it. But I will be posting some links to some circuits that will help. The most important thing is building an "Earth Oscillating Circuit" as I just said in one post. Do not look for much in the beginning as this takes allot of work to do. Stubbelfield had the first Earth Pulse Motor, I did point that out on my pages, I could not say everything as Time did not permit me to do that as I was more worried about my wife with her kidney transplant. Thank God everything worked out. You here have made great progress in learning about Earth currents, you have most of it. I was lucky that I live very close to the dense forests here and had friends who showed me old telegraph stations, the Earth batteries are still working here. They measure about 1 volt and no current but yet things still work for no reason receivers still click away, no one at the other end. They used the old Daniel cells, dead but still working. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniell_cell
The plates in the ground are 8 feet by 16 feet by 2 inches thick and were miles apart, so this should give some indication of the impedance involved. These stations are no longer used and the plates have not corroded away at all. These are all old mining towns up here. The old timers here say that at certain time of the night they see sparks jumping across the ground. All this stuff is on forest service land all gated now and a fine if you get caught trespassing on the government land. And what Stubbelfield should have called it was self powering earth oscillator for generating usable power.
John B
Quote from: protonmom on January 29, 2010, 01:20:30 PM
@John Bedini:
Hello and welcome. I hope you will stay here with us and direct us in the making of these Stubblefield coils. Is there any way we can get copies of the Borderlands articles? Or, could you make a pdf and post it in the downloads section for us? On the Stubblefield photos there are posts in the ground with globes on top of them. What were they used for and how do we make them? Any help would be much appreciated by all of us.
@ MK1
Thank you Mark for the kind words, it's very appreceated, and to those who PM'd me, my thanks to you all also.
Quote from: Mk1 on January 28, 2010, 10:00:00 PM
@jim
Hi , sorry to hear about your stroke of bad luck , all my best wishes ...
But the satellite i maybe able to help.
there has to be a way to see the signal strength , it usually needs 25 % to start receiving it will work but if it rains up north ( aussie other wise south for northern hemisphere) but the sun is bright at home it will not work, the signal need to be set the 95 % and up for reliability. Ok now look where the dish is aiming is there anything in front of it. I have seen wood electric pole swell in the heat of summer and the satellite started working 30 after dark.
so never assume is ok , make sure . Most of the winter install do not work in summer , because of the leaf grown since.
Other wise the right cable don't substitute rg59 for rg6.
Otherwise maybe sunspots at solstice .
I hope this will help .
Mark
Theres no foilage in front of the "dish" it's signal strength is very good
The cables are of TLC RG6 Quad Shield 75ohm Coaxial Cable 169M
I'm using LanSpeed2 to monitor the Downloads and Uploads, as it display this in real time
Activ8me has its own Up/Dn monitor, but it only gives a reading once an hour, in 1 hour it is possible to download 1Gig
You are right about the summer info, its the sun streeming, as it aproaches the zenith, more errors occur until theres a black out as the sun overloads/swamps the front end of the amplifier drowning out the sig from the satellite, but this is an extreme only.
I also think there is a "new" substance affecting the signals, theory only mind you, and that is the submicron stuff being sprayed over the top of us here in the form of chemtrails. Some of it is metallic and might be scattering the satellite sig, (as it scatters sunlight and the result is glair) carn't prove it as I have no datalogger and if I had one, I would need at least 20 years of base data to see what is hapenning above.
Thanks Mark
jim
@protonmom,
How is the level of your bcap today?
I got this thought after reading John's post about getting an oscillating ckt going. And also the part about using a cap to store it temporarily for later (momentary) release.
I am wondering if you are getting the beginning of that right now.
@All,
To get an oscillation going there must be something to oscillate, right?
So, collect it in that bcap, then when the cap is full enough let it go out, this will go down the wire and around both coils and return to the other side of the cap .
I said all this 2 years ago, and an EE friend told me that I needed a Non electrolytic can type cap. I am wondering now if that was incorrect.
I also remember in the astable multivibrator, the cap is controlled by a resistor across its leads, parallel to them.
The cap fills until its resistance is higher than the resistor and it stops filling and then empties because there is a load of some kind...
Or, maybe the only thing I did wrong was stop with too little wound. I never had more than 180 turns of each wire which is all I could get from hardware store bare copper.
Well, for me there is more time to ponder this. It is too wet and cold to hover over the back yard!
Thank you,
jeanna
Jeanna,
Yes, my re-wound coil is doing well and cranking away! But I think I know a better way yet, so will try that with the next coil. I have just now gotten the wire prepared to start winding a new one.
Will wait until morning for a new reading on the bcap. Do you think we need a diode in between the coil and the cap? You said: "To get an oscillation going there must be something to oscillate, right?
So, collect it in that bcap, then when the cap is full enough let it go out, this will go down the wire and around both coils and return to the other side of the cap ." How would I do that, exactly? I have the 5 and 6 hooked up to the cap at this time, so how would I "let it out" that would be any different in the wiring? Diagram??? (You know pictures help...especially for us who are just learning)
It is hard to describe.
And, I am not very experienced with it.
Normally we have a battery with a strong pos and strong neg.
What is happening at the wires atop the NS generator is about coils and pulses and not really a dc circuit at all,
But there is a little dc in the galvanic of the coil and also in the 1v in the ground.
You are capturing what is galvanic from the coil.
None of us ever got anything higher than you are getting now inside.
I call it galvanic if it is inside only because while it may not be purely galvanic, it is certainly not magnetic from the earth.
Well, I think those balls at the top were capacitors just like the capacitor at the top of the van de graf machine.
Start with wire end 5
At first the currents from the wet wires moving to the top of the coil cannot go anywhere, but they will build up until they are high enough to jump across the gap to the silver ball, this is what tesla called a disruptive discharge.
That discharge from one of the wires will cause the other to collect it and to change polarity. The charge will now go down the other wire to the 6.
But at the same time,
When that disruptive discharge occurs at the top there will be a pulse that flies back down the 5 wire to where it all began.
That will cause currents to happen in the 6 wire because they are so closely wrapped all the way.
(I assume that with each cycle this could grow because of the mutual inductance from one wire to the other.)
Basically every time there is a stop this flyback will happen.
This is the source of the spikey volts I am using with such delight from my joule thief circuits.
Last summer I made a lot of posts of the daily data coming from my EER which has one NS generator primary 5,6 coil at each outside end and the meter in the middle.
I saw plenty of millivolts activity (100mV) which is certainly giving me spikey volts in my secondary, but my secondary is too short and too distant from the primary, so I never saw peep from it.
I am learning this from all directions and not put together at all, and I am glad you asked me to explain. I have no idea if it helped you, but it helped me to have to describe what I am thinking at this point. ;D
So, thank you,
jeanna
Jeanna,
I think I will lay this out for you all. Here is what must happen in building an Earth Oscillator. The first stage is almost built like your SG or Joule Thief oscillator as you know what is lighting your led is the Radiant spike.
You do not need very much current for the first stage. Off the collector of this oscillator is a diode a one way gate so it can't flow backwards. The diode moves the charge to a capacitor say 5000uf this then supplies the second oscillator that does the same thing except the second oscillator is adjusted for a little more recovery through the second diode to another capacitor this time 15000 uf and this is how it is done, just like a Moray receiver. It just can't go backwards once the energy is flowing it can't return to the input. This moves forward just like water from bucket to bucket. in the end you will have a big potential to play with. I do not know how to explain this better then this, I'm really trying to keep this simple.
John B
Quote from: jeanna on January 29, 2010, 10:50:20 PM
It is hard to describe.
And, I am not very experienced with it.
Normally we have a battery with a strong pos and strong neg.
What is happening at the wires atop the NS generator is about coils and pulses and not really a dc circuit at all,
But there is a little dc in the galvanic of the A and also in the 1v in the ground.
You are capturing what is galvanic from the coil.
None of us ever got anything higher than you are getting now inside.
I call it galvanic if it is inside only because while it may not be purely galvanic, it is certainly not magnetic from the earth.
Well, I think those balls at the top were capacitors just like the capacitor at the top of the van de graf machine.
Start with wire end 5
At first the currents from the wet wires moving to the top of the coil cannot go anywhere, but they will build up until they are high enough to jump across the gap to the silver ball, this is what tesla called a disruptive discharge.
That discharge from one of the wires will cause the other to collect it and to change polarity. The charge will now go down the other wire to the 6.
But at the same time,
When that disruptive discharge occurs at the top there will be a pulse that flies back down the 5 wire to where A began.
That will cause currents to happen in the 6 wire because they are so closely wrapped all the way.
(I assume that with each cycle this could grow because of the mutual inductance from one wire to the other.)
Basically every time there is a stop this flyback will happen.
This is the source of the spikey volts I am using with such delight from my joule thief circuits.
Last summer I made a lot of posts of the daily data coming from my EER which has one NS generator primary 5,6 coil at each outside end and the meter in the middle.
I saw plenty of millivolts activity (100mV) which is certainly giving me spikey volts in my secondary, but my secondary is too short and too distant from the primary, so I never saw peep from it.
I am learning this from all directions and not put together at all, and I am glad you asked me to explain. I have no idea if it helped you, but it helped me to have to describe what I am thinking at this point. ;D
So, thank you,
jeanna
John:
Thank you for remaining here with us. My question about the Stubblefield system is that I always wondered if he used a spark gap? Those dome shaped objects on the top of his rods that Jeanna, and me, and a lot of others always wondered about might have been a way to achieve a small spark gap?
I am trying to think of the devices and techniques he would have had access to at that time. I don't know if you have seen any of Tariel Kapandaze's work but he was getting kilowatts using his earth battery and a spark gap to make the pulses. He was able to light many incandescent bulbs from his system.
You mentioned something we have long suspected in that the Joule Thief circuits we have been studying are related to this in some way.
I also totally agree with you about the caps. I saw a while back that, even though my earth battery (or earth energy receiver) was putting out only about 2 volts but yet could charge a 2.7 650 Farad B-cap to its maximum. Once I put the EB on my scope I could see why. There were all sorts of crazy spikes everywhere and the B-cap was storing them as usable energy, which I have been able to use.
We are really thankful that you are here posting and sharing your knowledge and ideas with us. This might lead to something big.
Bill
Quote from: john_bedini on January 29, 2010, 11:35:36 PM
Jeanna,
I think I will lay this out for you all. Here is what must happen in building an Earth Oscillator. The first stage is almost built like your SG or Joule Thief oscillator as you know what is lighting your led is the Radiant spike.
You do not need very much current for the first stage. Off the collector of this oscillator is a diode a one way gate so it can't flow backwards. The diode moves the charge to a capacitor say 5000uf this then supplies the second oscillator that does the same thing except the second oscillator is adjusted for a little more recovery through the second diode to another capacitor this time 15000 uf and this is how it is done, just like a Moray receiver. It just can't go backwards once the energy is flowing it can't return to the input. This moves forward just like water from bucket to bucket. in the end you will have a big potential to play with. I do not know how to explain this better then this, I'm really trying to keep this simple.
John B
OK thanks.
This makes a lot of sense and is simple.
I have never been able to get a diode to do anything but stop the charge in my earth batteries.
I often have the same problem with non earth batteries, but I do follow your explanation.
It reminds me of the way the fuji circuit gets the extra high boost in the big cap to flash the xenon.
I see also, why we have never been able to make any of this happen.
5000uF and 15000uf is a couple of big capacitors.
I would have hoped it could have been done in miniature. darn..
Is there a diode you would use for this, or is any 1N4001 or 1N4007 ok to use?
thank you for your help, even if it is discouraging to me.
jeanna
edit.
I need to learn this, because I believe it is the same method needed to make warmth from my jt cold electricity.
I am game, but I do admit I do not know what I am doing.
@ Jeanna,
I think John is saying the radant energy is flowing, the diode channels it into the capacitor, forcing a one way flow, if he diode wasnt there it may flow backwards cancelling itself.
Then using a switch to transfer this same charge into a larger capacitor, the origin of the radant energy is pushing from behind, and a suction effect from the capacitors in front draws it into the capacitors.
Using a series (group) of capacitors we should get enough radant energy to power something with.
@ John,
Just how high can radant voltage go to? is there a limit? can it be as a thin streem or like a broad river?
Also, should we some time be thinking of using HV diodes as is used in microwave ovens? or use just sharp cutof diodes?
jim
@John
I think I have dreamed up a circuit that could receive the energy and pipe it into a number of caps, then the whole lot is dumped into a single larger cap, I drew this up about a couple of years ago and put it on the Joule Thief Thread.
Bill has collected a large circuit collection, on the JT in a separate section, you are welcome to take a look see at the below description and see if it would be suitable in radant energy.
I used a 4017 IC as the main series switcher, just instead of driving LEDs 1-10, I instead used the Hi + to drive the base of a BC548 to switch in turn each Cap.
The IC mark/space ratio can be configured with T-pots to allow for the difference between caps and energy delivery amounts.
There are 8 caps
When the 1st cap reaches full, the IC switches to cap2, and then proceeds to the next one, when the last cap is done, pin 9 goes high, switching a second set of transistors in parallel and dumps the lot into the final larger cap.
when pin 10 goes hi, which it is connected to the reset pin on the IC so this cycle rotates.
Everything depends on the amount of energy available though, the faster the flow, the better the circuit will perform.
Unfortunately I am not at my regular PC so I haven't got access to my circuit, but you and any one else are welcome to use it if they wish to do so.
jim
Bill,
You know that sometimes in semiconductors we get what is called popcorn noise. This noise is just like this a series of little spikes that do some funny things to circuits. I would tend to look at earth batteries as semiconductor materials instead of galvanic action. I have made semiconductors from copper and steel so looking at stubbelfeilds battery is nothing more then a rectifier diode for earth currents. some of the materials could be inductive capacitive and resistive at the same time,
Although my experiments were about transmission I still saw batteries were possible if you could oscillate it out of the earth, just like a beat frequency. Sometimes when the weather permits here I have seen along side small streams flowing from the mountains a light that seems to be in the center flowing upwards, what type of energy is this? I have shown people this in the camp grounds and they have no answer as to why.
My Idea is to build a Earth Oscillator using the earth as the coil in the system. The devices must be Germanium transistors as they work at a much lower trigger voltage. I think it would take four electrodes to do this.
I think we are looking at this all wrong for some reason. I must think about this now and change my view on this.
John B
Quote from: Pirate88179 on January 30, 2010, 12:39:06 AM
John:
Thank you for remaining here with us. My question about the Stubblefield system is that I always wondered if he used a spark gap? Those dome shaped objects on the top of his rods that Jeanna, and me, and a lot of others always wondered about might have been a way to achieve a small spark gap?
I am trying to think of the devices and techniques he would have had A to at that time. I don't know if you have seen any of Tariel Kapandaze's work but he was getting kilowatts using his earth battery and a spark gap to make the pulses. He was able to light many incandescent bulbs from his system.
You mentioned something we have long suspected in that the Joule Thief circuits we have been studying are related to this in some way.
I also totally agree with you about the A. I saw a while back that, even though my earth battery (or earth energy receiver) was putting out only about 2 volts but yet could charge a 2.7 650 Farad B-cap to its maximum. Once I put the EB on my scope I could see why. There were all sorts of crazy spikes everywhere and the B-cap was storing them as usable energy, which I have been able to use.
We are really thankful that you are here posting and sharing your knowledge and ideas with us. This might lead to something big.
Bill
John,
I have a couple of links to some posts I made last summer in the datalogging thread.
In the first post I outlined how I set it up and how I wanted help with a tank and diode set up.
No one actually came forward back then, so my request still holds in a way.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7769.msg195645#msg195645 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7769.msg195645#msg195645) and the post following
This is separated by a few other comments and is on the next page, but it has the best pictures:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7769.msg195649#msg195649 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7769.msg195649#msg195649)
I made a funny drawing to show what the EB with a NS generator appended to it looks like and where I am reading the meter and which wires are connected.
I will post that here now.
thank you.
I would really like some help with the diode+cap issue,
jeanna
Quote from: protonmom on January 27, 2010, 08:21:41 PM
resonance man;
You said:
>>I was reading a book on Terslas work studying for my hairpin thread.......
I stumbled across something that gave me another theory about the Stubblefield battery
This book had a page of pictures of armatures from motors Tesla invented........it breafly explained some of them.<<
What book was this so I can look it up? It sounds interesting, and perhaps I could understand what you are saying if I read the book/article.
Thanks in advance.
Protonmom
The name of the book i " Inventions, Research and Writings of Nikola Tesla"
I do not think that the book will help you.
I find it very dry.
It seems well written but written by a researcher not an expermenter.
There is alot of information but as far as I have seen so far......no first had experience.
It was just an Ah Ha experience for me.
I have often wondered exactly how the 2 metals interacted in a stubblfield battery.....this gave me an idea if how it might work.
gary
Quote from: electricme on January 30, 2010, 05:40:42 AM
@ Jeanna,
I think John is saying the radant energy is flowing, the diode channels it into the capacitor, forcing a one way flow, if he diode wasnt there it may flow backwards cancelling itself.
Then using a switch to transfer this same charge into a larger capacitor, the origin of the radant energy is pushing from behind, and a suction effect from the capacitors in front draws it into the capacitors.
Using a series (group) of capacitors we should get enough radant energy to power something with.
@ John,
Just how high can radant voltage go to? is there a limit? can it be as a thin streem or like a broad river?
Also, should we some time be thinking of using HV diodes as is used in microwave ovens? or use just sharp cutof diodes?
jim
Jim
I am not sure that bigger caps are the way to go.
From what I have been learning the energy we are dealing with is electrostatic........ ( scaler waves )
I tried to talk about it a little back on reply 2860
I think that the a large ground is critical.
As I understand it ......scaler waves travel though the ground with little or no resistance.
They would charge everything in their path for a very short time.
The ground is fairly high resistance..........a wire in the ground or a large metal plate is very low resistance.
The metal plate or wire would act as a capacitor ......the larger the mass the bigger the cap.
This is probably why the plates for the telegraph John was talking about were so large.
With a massive ground..........all we should need is a diode and a capacitor above ground to catch some energy.
Now............if you assume that there is high voltage in the upper levels of the atmosphere as Tesla did......... you can add an elevated metal plate above your cap and diode.........then we have a modern version of Teslas radiant energy reciever.
It is all starting to make sense
I have heard that Tesla was a fanatic about grounds
I would think that with a large ground system you could power a large JT directly......... then use the JT to charge something along the lines of a set of car batterys
gary
Quote from: resonanceman on January 31, 2010, 09:51:44 PM
The name of the book i " Inventions, Research and Writings of Nikola Tesla"
I do not think that the book will help you.
I find it very dry.
It seems well written but written by a researcher not an expermenter.
There is alot of information but as far as I have seen so far......no first had experience.
Hi Gary,
I am glad to see you are here on the site again.
I must disagree.
That is the very book I have read that has inspired me so much.
It is a book that includes transcriptions (word for word- stenographers could do that in the past) of the lectures tesla gave himself.
These were the lectures of 1891-1893 and the book was published in 1893.
In it Tesla describes in a great deal of detail how he did his experiments and the conclusions he was forced to make based on the results which he also describes.
If the author is a dry read, I suggest you turn directly to the lectures themselves.
Just another opinion.
jeanna
Quote from: jeanna on February 01, 2010, 12:12:57 AM
Hi Gary,
I am glad to see you are here on the site again.
I must disagree.
That is the very book I have read that has inspired me so much.
It is a book that includes transcriptions (word for word- stenographers could do that in the past) of the lectures tesla gave himself.
These were the lectures of 1891-1893 and the book was published in 1893.
In it Tesla describes in a great deal of detail how he did his experiments and the conclusions he was forced to make based on the results which he also describes.
If the author is a dry read, I suggest you turn directly to the lectures themselves.
Just another opinion.
jeanna
Jeanna
I am glad to hear that.
I have not got that for yet.
Even the dry stuff can be of value..... who knows when 3 or 2 words will connect with some idea in the back of your head and sudenly you understand. ( that is what happened with the words..... " copper and Iron have different phases .)
If the phase difference is enough to make a motor run......it is probably one of the keys to what is going on with the Stubblfield battery
I guess you could say I am back here in theory.
I left because I have no place to try my ideas........I still don't ..... so.... I am still interested.....I still have theorys......but not much chance of actually doing anything.
gary
;D
Not at 10 degrees, anyway!
Winter is a good time for theories.
It is a very interesting point about the 2 metals BEING a different phase. I always thought of it as different resistances, and never noticed what you said.
Thanks,
jeanna
Jeanna:
10 degrees? (F) Heck it was 2 degrees here last night and we got a foot of snow yesterday!!!
I was outside and I can't even see any of my electrodes or wires on the old EER.
Spring is coming!
Bill
Hi John thanks for your circuits I've build two single coil motors and one double coil of yours and a bedini/imhotep fan too.
I've build a JT/bedini that worked well without a rotor.
Yes your idea is right one can do a joule thief to the Earth battery to power it more than drain to a cap then continue to another pulse circuit again to amplify more.
How can we find a right site for the earth battery is there a meter to know?
Thanks
Guruji,
Yes this is the way to go, just like a bucket brigade charging system. But the stages must keep going forward. Start with a small oscillator and move to the next oscillator.
This would keep building up power. Some of the solar light circuits would just work fine. I think the pages are called Talkingelectronics. look under Solar charger. Some very good circuits for this.http://www.talkingelectronics.com/te_interactive_index.html
John B
Quote from: guruji on February 01, 2010, 02:38:27 PM
Hi John thanks for your circuits I've build two single coil motors and one double coil of yours and a bedini/imhotep fan too.
I've build a JT/bedini that worked well without a rotor.
Yes your idea is right one can do a joule thief to the Earth battery to power it more than drain to a cap then continue to another pulse circuit again to amplify more.
How can we find a right site for the earth battery is there a meter to know?
Thanks
Hi All
I've been thinking about what John B said about high impedance and using caps. There is a way to capacitor couple two circuits together using the concept of the C-stack here:
http://jnaudin.free.fr/cstack/index.htm
Just brain storming here--Supposed I took four large sheets of aluminum roofing, separated by thin film plastic sheets. Put them together as a C-stack. then hooked the top piece to an antenna, the bottom piece to earth ground, maybe also include a multi=turn fine wire inductor (car ignition coil) buried in the ground wired as a parallel resonant circuit (tank circuit) to collect earth energies. Then use the two inner plates of the C-stack as input for the nest stage?
If you drew energy off the second stage, would it upset the natural resonant freq of the first stage? this would for sure happen with inductive transformer coupling. Maybe Capacitor coupling will isolate the load of the second stage transferring back to the first stage. Maybe there are other ways to isolate load transference since John talks about it and Moray did it?
I am limited in my knowledge about circuits. Just tossing the idea out because I always like this idea of the C-stack.
Quote from: john_bedini on January 29, 2010, 01:47:33 AM
Hi Bill,
Yes I have seen that by Johnny D,
He did great work on that it should show everybody something and yes I have transmitted for miles until I was stopped by the FCC. The major point is Stubbelfield had three coils The patent office made him or did not allow him to show the interrupter in the coil, that is how he produced the Arc lighting.
I was very lucky the FCC did not fine me so I put the work away. When transmitting with that system you must worry about the low frequency bands., That is what got me into trouble. I have read all the posts, The meters are the problem make you own to measure with. Think High impedance here the higher the better You will see the potential then it will light anything you want and run motors. And I have seen your vids, excellent work on your part.
John B
John,
What did you mean by 3 coils and an interrupt in the coil? Can you explain what you meant?
Thanks,
%Heath
Heath,
Stubbelfield had three coils not shown in the patent, think of an old model T coil then you will understand what I'm saying to you. I never answer the question directly on anything. I figure by doing this it forces you to think on your own so people say, john you speak in riddles. I have done all these experiments already so I know what he was doing.
I will answer this question for you. Take the basic coil, as the coil build what you call current the iron is charged. This pulls on an interrupter that breaks the ground connection. The iron discharges and you get high voltage from the secondary, with that you can run arc lights, or charge capacitors. I going to take this further here. What is Gravity and how can we catch it? Jeanna already posted a link to her pictures, what are those waves?, very good Jeanna. Now think of the TPU what does it catch? Gravity is electricity.
John B
Quote from: 77eagles on February 02, 2010, 01:24:17 PM
John,
What did you mean by 3 coils and an interrupt in the coil? Can you explain what you meant?
Thanks,
%Heath
I may have missed this discussion earlier in this thread, but I thought that I'd ask.
You all have probably already read this URL: http://keelytech.com/stubblefield.html
Here they seem to think that the radioactive pitchblende was a key component to setting up or creating a resonant condition.
So my thought is, will any efforts to achieve high output be successful in duplicating Stubblefield's experiments if all of the conditions are not duplicated?
I personally would like to see success without need for such a toxic solution.
Oh, and you can buy pitchblende on eBay.
Quote from: PolishPunisher on February 02, 2010, 07:27:47 PM
I may have missed this discussion earlier in this thread, but I thought that I'd ask.
You all have probably already read this URL: http://keelytech.com/stubblefield.html (http://keelytech.com/stubblefield.html)
Here they seem to think that the radioactive pitchblende was a key component to setting up or creating a resonant condition.
So my thought is, will any efforts to achieve high output be successful in duplicating Stubblefield's experiments if all of the conditions are not duplicated?
I personally would like to see success without need for such a toxic solution.
Oh, and you can buy pitchblende on eBay.
Yes, that was mentioned but after a little more research, I believe most of us do not think that radioactivity is needed for this. We came to this conclusion for several reasons.
First, Stubblefield went on a trip to Washington DC and demonstrated his set-up there. He actually made a phone call from a boat on the Potomac River (The world's first ship to shore call) and I am sure he was not able to seed the river with pitchblende yet his device worked just fine.
He also put on other demonstrations in other cities including Philadelphia and if the ground at his farm was so special and seeded with pitchblende, it would not have worked in these other locations yet it did.
Just my opinion but we did our best to look into this part of the story.
I only live about 2 hours from Stubblefield's old farm site. Murry State University is built on what used to be his farm.
Bill
Bill,
I must agree with you on this one. I have found no need for any radioactive element unless your looking for the easy way out and death. Moray is another story and so is Hendershot, Hubbard. Now that you bring this up. lets examine the TPU as that is the only way that can work also.
My field is Audio Amplifiers, including tubes and I have seen noise in the devices but not enough to make a TPU device.
However I also have built Gravitational detectors buy using the noise in the devices, no need for any Radioactive materials at all. Can you find any information on Tesla that says he used it in his coils? I have built self powering Solar Cell when Radium Paint could be bought in the 50's.
I see no need for any of that.
John B
Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 02, 2010, 08:16:34 PM
Yes, that was mentioned but after a little more research, I believe most of us do not think that radioactivity is needed for this. We came to this conclusion for several reasons.
First, Stubblefield went on a trip to Washington DC and demonstrated his set-up there. He actually made a phone call from a boat on the Potomac River (The world's first ship to shore call) and I am sure he was not able to seed the river with pitchblende yet his device worked just fine.
He also put on other demonstrations in other cities including Philadelphia and if the ground at his farm was so special and seeded with pitchblende, it would not have worked in these other locations yet it did.
Just my opinion but we did our best to look into this part of the story.
I only live about 2 hours from Stubblefield's old farm site. Murry A University is built on what used to be his farm.
Bill
john,
i think alot of devices were built with this type of magic
'' Radium ''
i may be wrong..
robbie
Robbie,
Yes I understand that, but why would anybody risk that today knowing what we know. I know it can be done without all of this. Maybe Tesla did paint his plate for the free energy experiment. Could be that they doped the capacitors also.
It is also possible that he used it in special tubes for the car.
I have seen tubes where the cathode was doped. Cold cathodes. whatever I will have no luck getting any of this stuff unless I find it on the ground. So now we know the secrete to this extra energy in devices like the TPU.
JB
Quote from: kooler on February 02, 2010, 10:10:21 PM
john,
i think alot of devices were built with this type of magic
'' Radium ''
i may be wrong..
robbie
I think Tesla played around with some radio active stuff, but didnt care for it much. And he seemed like a straight up guy, having to be tricky at times to get around the bad guys. I dont believe there are any stories of attempts to harm him because of him taking advantage of anyone. It was usually them taking advantage of him.
I believe he did it all.
My Great Grand Father delt with Westinghouse on the air brake and I think he may have knew Tesla. He lived in Elwood City about 60 mi from Pittsburgh where Westinghouse and Tesla did work.
The reason I speculate that he may have known him is my Grandfather told me many times that GGf had 2 motors connected at the shaft with the wires to a box with a switch. He said ya gave it a spin by hand and it just kept accelerating and the switch would have to be thrown or a load put on it. He was threatened by big oil and gov people after showing it around to witnesses. So he tossed the box. GF tried later to find the box once he was a few years older and realized what it really was and not just one of dads crazy ideas. But I think that maybe GGF was tricky also, and maybe the secret was in the motors themselves. This was in the early 1910s. GF was about 10 yrs old at the time. My GF and GGF were inventors and I consider myself one. Ideas. Expanding on ideas. Lots of visions of ideas. But GF wasnt all into electrical as he was mechanical. GGF was all the way. So yeah, I believe. Im here aren't I.
Mags
@ Kooler,
If you were thinking of trying radium to get a Stubblefield Coil to work, t's best to stay away from that stuff.
Theres plenty of other ways to try.
@ Resonanceman,
You may be right there, using the smaller value ceramic capacitors, but eventualy as the progression of "radant" energy, those caps would need to be made bigger, as the energy moves along.
@ john,
Would a walter cockcroft setup help here?
I have a WCC board in front of me, all the caps are identical in farads, eg 1uF x 630v, if each cap value was increased by 5%, wouldnt the energy be acumulated to a much higher amount?
I have drawn a image of a Stubblefield coil, tried to post it before but couldn't do it as my IP is throttling my sat set up again.
I will try posting just the JPG and see if that works.
jim
hi john,
sorry i know this is off topic.. ..
i have no idea why any one would risk using such elements that close to there body..
i do think that there are alot better ways to get this energy.. i am have no idea of how to get that kind of energy in my hands.. but i know you are far smarter than i am..
i used to try to build this tpu of the maker steven mark but i quit due to a few things
in one of his videos he has some black spots on his arms.. the only video with his sleeves rolled up..
then when dave started talking about him he talked of steven having black paint on his hands.. when he worked on his tpu's
and then in one video . one of his devices fails and they want to cut it up but he wants to try fix it.. and he picks the box up in the middle and moves it weird like thru the air .. but it didn't work..
so i pinned it for radium or some other radioactive type element..
sorry for being off topic..
i need to read up on tesla some more
thanks for the info
robbie
NS coil by electricme
Good, I see that jpg arrived ok.
On the Bifilar urns
The SQUARE turns represents Iron wire, the ROUND turns represents Copper wire.
On the Secondary
The output as John B has mentioned in a previous post, is derived from the "secondary" coil.
So to me, it looks as though the bifilar windings are what drives the whole system, and the bifilar setup is where the Stubblefield coil is tuned, for efficency by a sensitive magnetic switch.
I know that the amount of "current" any generator is capable of putting out, depends on the cross sectional area of the windings, or the thickness of the wire wound on a armature or iron field pole.
So it stands to my reasoning if the Stubblefield coil central iron bar was a "biggie", then it would put out more grunt, but this happens only when you wind the secondary coil by using thicker wires.
I see this in car alternators, standby power plants etc.
Lets take the voltage situation.
In USA its 120 volts, in Australia its 240 volts, so the secondary winds for Aust NS coil would need to be twice as those wound for a 120v coil.
This is only an example, and not exact, it's only to give some idea of what to do.
@John,
Would the book the The Harmonic conquest of Space by Brian Cathe (NZ) be a valuable resourse for this work?
I saw you mentioned about graverty as electricity, and I know that the speed of light equations are all mixed up in this thing, but I carn't figure out that high math, I'll leave it some professor to do.
I think he was working on earth energy grids, triangulations patterns, wavelengths of light, Graverty, there was another one, was it time?
jim
Quote from: john_bedini on February 02, 2010, 07:16:54 PM
I never answer the question directly on anything. I figure by doing this it forces you to think on your own so people say, john you speak in riddles. I have done all these experiments already so I know what he was doing.
John
I think a simple direct question deserves a simple direct answer.
I am here because I think this is the best place to be considering the state of the world as we know it.
The big oil companys say we have enough oil for at least 50 years.
I question that given our growing usage.........but even if it is true, How long can the super greedy wait before trying to monopolize all the oil that is left?
In my opinion Iraq was a first attempt at this power play.
Fortunately Bush was not bright enough to pull it off.
I can see no way that the super greedy can wait even 10 years to get control of the rest of the oil.
As I see it the only way for society as we know it to survive is to take the wind out of their sails by finding alternative energy sources ........
If we can find enough new practical energy solutions then we can just forget about the Mid East ......and let them run their own lives as they see fit.
I would like to play a part in finding some of these energy solutions...... that has become my life goal
Until we find more good practical energy solutions the tension in the Mid East will continue to escalate.
What I see in the quote above is about what I call being an Info Snob ........ It is the attitude that I learned what I know the hard way........and that is how you have to learn it too.
Who's side are you on John?
What hopes and dreams do you have for the world?
Do you really think that making someone else think for themselves will bring you any closer to these hopes and dreams?
I think that you underestimate the people here........ We are experimenters .......If you give us a piece of the puzzle that we did not have before .........we will run with it.
gary
Quote from: electricme on February 02, 2010, 11:54:13 PM
You may be right there, using the smaller value ceramic capacitors, but eventually as the progression of "radiant" energy, those caps would need to be made bigger, as the energy moves along.
Jim,
I will now direct my question to you since you make good drawings and seem to understand the part of the bucket brigade that eludes me.
I look up oscillators and caps and inductors and never get to
HOW they are connected so that the output of one goes nicely into the input of another.I understand the concept, and I have been trying to make it happen, but when a youtuber has one it is blurry and when it is visually clear it is not what I want. I gave up looking for this over a year ago, but John's comments have restarted my search.
Could you please make me a drawing?
I made your diamond bridge easily and I think this type of drawing and input from you is what I need.
btw, when I use a 22uF can type cap, it is easy and
immediate to get 0.225v on a cap from the top two wires of the NS coil.
Thank you,
=====
@John,
I agree with Gary,
Please do not tease.
We work hard and I feel there is too little time for this.
I prefer to do things myself.
This is a "think tank" where we openly share what we know with each other.
Quote from: resonanceman on February 03, 2010, 02:00:49 PM
Who's side are you on John?
What hopes and dreams do you have for the world?
Do you really think that making someone else think for themselves will bring you any closer to these hopes and dreams?
I think that you underestimate the people here........ We are experimenters .......If you give us a piece of the puzzle that we did not have before .........we will run with it.
gary
thank you,
jeanna
@protonmom,
I found this on howstuff works.
I think it might explain what you are doing with a cap on the 5,6.
=============-:
If you charge up the capacitor with a battery and then insert the inductor into the circuit, here's what will happen:
* The capacitor will start to discharge through the inductor. As it does, the inductor will create a magnetic field.
* Once the capacitor discharges, the inductor will try to keep the current in the circuit moving, so it will charge up the other plate of the capacitor.
* Once the inductor's field collapses, the capacitor has been recharged (but with the opposite polarity), so it discharges again through the inductor.
 This oscillation will continue until the circuit runs out of energy due to resistance in the wire. It will oscillate at a frequency that depends on the size of the inductor and the capacitor.
===========
We all know that what NS has made is the inductor that has an included battery.
It resonates as described here, and this is the reason I believe the ball on the top is a cap just as the bcap you are using. ...but, maybe smaller value.
I went out the other day and a 22uF cap- can type- filled immediately to 0.22v, and then basically stayed there.
This is about the time factor.
This is what we need as far as I can say.
I think we need to match the cap with the inductance of our coils so they actually oscillate.
If the 22uF cap can fill and discharge and refill into something it will be immediate although small.
As John describes it we can have it dump into a second cap. I need to try that to be convinced, but the point I am wanting to make here is that if the bcap takes too long to "fill" it is too big and will always take that long.
The life of an oscillator is its movement.
I used to call it AC, but now I am calling it pulsed DC as others have. It means non smooth ac.
But it will not work well in a continuous manner if it takes too long to fill., so if you have a dead cfl, take it apart and remove that big can from the circuit and see what happens with your new improved NS coil.
Mine are out in the rain. :( and cold :(
jeanna
Quote from: resonanceman on February 03, 2010, 02:00:49 PM
I believe he came here to help, otherwise why would he waste his time posting here? Who's side is he on? After all the information he has freely given out..What good is giving people the answer, when they don't even understand the question? I believe he is willing to show the way, let him, and give him all the space he needs..
Quote from: jeanna on February 03, 2010, 02:29:00 PM
Jim,
I will now direct my question to you since you make good drawings and seem to understand the part of the bucket brigade that eludes me.
I look up oscillators and caps and inductors and never get to HOW they are connected so that the output of one goes nicely into the input of another.
I understand the concept, and I have been trying to make it happen, but when a youtuber has one it is blurry and when it is visually clear it is not what I want. I gave up looking for this over a year ago, but John's comments have restarted my search.
Could you please make me a drawing?
I made your diamond bridge easily and I think this type of drawing and input from you is what I need.
Jeanna
I do not have a drawing but I will try to explain it the best I can..
In general I see 2 basic ways to do it.
Lets say wer are using Gadgetmalls Ucpa charger.
The simple easy way is to take the ultra cap from the first unit and use it as a battery for the second unit.
Doing it like this all you have to worry about is not taking to much or to little from the U cap.
But those U caps are not cheap.
It can be done with only one Ucap at the end.................but at each junction between circuits you need a cap.....if that cap is to small it will act as a current limiting cap........if it is to large you will loose some of your voltage.
You also have to keep all the circuits synchronized so that when a pulse arrives at the end of one circuit the next circuit will be ready to receive it.
I think for most of us here the first way is the way to go.......it costs more..........but it is easier and more flexable.
One thing I really like about it ......is you can add any power source you have. Anything you can charge the U cap with can be used as part of your power supply........
gary
Quote from: Freezer on February 03, 2010, 02:44:13 PM
I believe he came here to help, otherwise why would he waste his time posting here? Who's side is he on? After all the information he has freely given out..What good is giving people the answer, when they don't even understand the question? I believe he is willing to show the way, let him, and give him all the space he needs..
Freezer
I do not believe that anyone but John can say why he is here.
I will give him some space.
I will let him answer as he sees fit without further comment on it.
I just had to state my position on a few things.
I do think it is a good thing that he is here...........even if he insists on answering questions with riddles ........ Someone will gain something.
I have grown very tired of that kind of thing on the JT threads.........
If he wants to answer like IST Sr ....I will just skip over most of his posts
gary
Thanks Gary, but that is not the question.
John suggested that we can make a bucket brigade from cap to cap getting bigger until we have a lot of power.
I think he is right and I have in fact tried to make a brigade before, but I could not get the thing to move.
Now, I understand that the cap and inductor dance together and this is what we need.
But, what I have yet to do is get the output from one capacitor to go into another.
[well, this is not true, I made an astable multivibrator with caps and resistors--- no inductors. It is a similar but different scene, because it uses 2 transistors . I think it is I am close, but not there yet.]
It is the connections from one oscillator to the next bigger one that I am asking about.
Do you know how I should do that?
thanks,
jeanna
Quote from: jeanna on February 03, 2010, 03:17:01 PM
It is the connections from one oscillator to the next bigger one that I am asking about.
Do you know how I should do that?
thanks,
jeanna
Jeanna
I thougt that what I wrote covered that ........I was using gadgemalls cap charger as an example.......but the same thing applies to astring of oscillators .
You said something about yopu can't get the charge from one cap to go into the next cap........ are you talking about having an input and an output cap side by side?........... If so...... you will lose half your charge........ You need one cap between stages..........the right sized cap
gary
Quote from: resonanceman on February 03, 2010, 03:32:36 PM
You said something about you can't get the charge from one cap to go into the next cap........ are you talking about having an input and an output cap side by side?...
I mean in series.
I believe this is what John means by bucket brigade to increase the volts from the NS to a useable value.
You and I were the 2 who were making inductors to continue the pulses, and to augment the output from our thieves.
I made mine in series, but I was not able to get the NS to budge the way I did the jtc with multiple secondaries.
And I did not get an increase so far. I am sure it is a very simple detail.
thank you
---------------------------------
Here is the oscillation information for the NS coil I have in the ground
It tells the frequency and I think I remember some figure like this, but it was last summer.
the coil is measured 1.7mH
The cap is 22uF
the resistance is measured 1.6 ohm
the voltage is around 350mV depending, but that doesn't change the results here.
The amps are probably derived from the volts.
jeanna
I thought Johns statement on the "interrupter" was clear the first time. He still gave a good analogy on Fords Ignition system. Basic magnetic field collapse on a coil stuff. If you dont know this then its time you study basics first. Also its not hard to google interrupter.
Tesla lit up a bank of lights 30 miles away through the air. If he would have used something to deflect or stop the signals he could have interrupted the circuit completely or timed it out where the lights could blink on and off. Now if we could only build a make break for coils in close proximity like this we may have a way for a Stubblefield interrupter that isnt mechanical.
There is no need to be rude.
I am humbly and honestly asking for help with how to make a bucket brigade with caps that start small and get larger.
The pulse is already there,
the inductor is already there
The - or A -cap was probably there,
So then what?
or, why does my coil not produce voltage oscillations of some size off the secondary?
John says to make a bucket brigade...
I would feel more hopeful if the secondary produced anything. It is not.
jeanna
Jeanna:
My understanding is that to do what John and Jim are suggesting, diodes would need to be employed in order to keep the energy flowing only one-way in the cap bank.
I have yet to try this on my set-up outside due to the weather even though the diode suggestion was made to me some time ago. So far, however, I was still able to fill my 2.7v 650 F B-cap even though I can only measure 1.9 volts or so coming from my electrodes. I really can't explain why the energy does not flow back into the ground from my cap although I can see on the scope those large spikes all over the place which I believe accounts for why the cap charged up higher than my "input" voltage. (as measured with my DMM)
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 03, 2010, 06:31:11 PM
Jeanna:
My understanding is that to do what John and Jim are suggesting, diodes would need to be employed in order to keep the energy flowing only one-way in the cap bank.
I do remember John saying something about needing diodes to keep it going in the same direction a while back.
Jeanna
What are you using for a load?
My flyback / feedback circuits don't do anything without a load.
gary
Resonanceman,
I'm not here for any reason, but I have learned a long time ago not to spoon feed people or they do not learn anything. That is what I said and nothing more. I have not given you any riddles it was just the best way to say it. You may have all the information I have on Stubblefield, no questions asked.
If you read into my comment that I'm going to speak in riddles your wrong, sorry for that. I don't know all the answers to this either. I'm also tired of all the BS about me and what I do. I have been real honest here about what I know concerning Stubblefield, but if you see otherwise I'm glad to go on my way.
John B
Quote from: resonanceman on February 03, 2010, 03:14:41 PM
Freezer
I do not believe that anyone but John can say why he is here.
I will give him some space.
I will let him answer as he sees fit without further comment on it.
I just had to state my position on a few things.
I do think it is a good thing that he is here...........even if he insists on answering questions with riddles ........ Someone will gain something.
I have grown very tired of that kind of thing on the JT threads.........
If he wants to answer like IST Sr ....I will just skip over most of his posts
gary
Well I would like to see you stay John and pleased to meet ya. I understood what you were saying, and I understand why you say it the way you do, and that could be for other reasons also and I respect that.
Nothing against ya Resman, You and I hung out at the spark gap for a bit, but people are people and we should respect everyone as they are. =]
Mags
@Gary,
The only load is the meter... or whatever load there is when the coil is connected to 25 feet of wire then another coil, with a meter in the middle reporting what is happening.
Yes, I just went back to reread John's posts.
He said to put a diode so that what goes out into the next coil/cap will not flush back.
Of course I am not sure if electrons are moving or if pos charge is flowing so I am always putting diodes in backwards, then removing them and putting them in backwards again.
(It is great to be very spatial but because of it I miss the details others get. And, especially in electronic circuits, because they are SOO linear. It is the reason I ask for the little details so much.)
I am deciding I have all of it right or close enough except for the impedance.
If I have 1.6mH and 1.7 ohm resistance, I do not have enough.
The thing is I do have something, and I should be able to at least prove the concept without building another coil. (#14)
Then I can scale it up.
(Kinda the way I did with the leds and the jtc.)
So, how to I add a load when nothing turns on?
Is a load some kind of magic item I have missed?
I admit I assumed a load would be ignored with too little happening.
Maybe what I could do is take my nongalvanic NS type coil and try adding caps and coils and diodes and caps and see if something happens.
thank you,
jeanna
Quote from: IotaYodi on February 03, 2010, 05:25:53 PM
I thought Johns statement on the "interrupter" was clear the first time. He still gave a good analogy on Fords Ignition system. Basic magnetic field collapse on a coil stuff. If you dont know this then its time you study basics first. Also its not hard to google interrupter.
IotaYodi
I do not remember thinking of you as an info snob......but this quote is a perfect example of the thinking of an info snob.
A model T is a little bit before my time..... I could look it up but I have other projects going.
This site was intended as a place to SHARE information about earth batterys and things like that..........It was not intended to be a place for people to point out how lacking others may be in their education.
I wil be the first to admit that I am ignorant in alot of areas........I am new to electronics and building stuff.
You might not realise it but it is very likely that the person that comes up with a truly practical OU device will probably not be well educated. ............Most EEs never question their education .......then never even give it a thought that what they were taught might have been tweaked to make OU dificult.
If you follow all the rules........OU is impossible........not because it can't be done............but the rules have been designed over the years to keep it impossible. ( by the big company's that support our collages )
If I had the knowledge that you claim to have.......I would have tried to explain a little bit about how the model T ignition coil is different from the modern version.
Rather than saying it is easy to google something.......I would google it and post a link,
If I refer to a particular thing ..........I always post a link if I have one .........I do not see why others don't do this ......
gary
@John,
QuoteI have been real honest here about what I know concerning Stubblefield, but if you see otherwise I'm glad to go on my way.
I appreciate this.
You are the only person in the world who has been able to make a stubblefield generator work.
[Well I am not counting trapp, because he is leveraging it for money for his religion.]
You are the only person who has managed to figure this thing out, and many many people have tried. Last year I met an ee from NZ who had tried years ago. He was changing my car battery for me and he said "let me know if you ever crack it" He was also with a group of folks trying to figure it out.
So, it may have been easy and obvious for you.
We don't have that little glyph of the guy banging his head on the wall, but that is how this has been for me.
And, I have not given up.
=====
So, is it easier to comment on a pic from us/me? or is it easier to make a drawing?
I plan to make a drawing of a coil in parallel with a*** cap followed by a diode with the stripe no doubt in the wrong way, then followed by a longer coil in parallel with a bigger cap followed by another diode.
Is that how you would connect this?
Well the first is only a cap then diode because the coil is in the ground already.
jeanna
***oops
First the diode then the cap and coil in parallel, then another diode then another cap and coil in parallel.
Quote from: jeanna on February 03, 2010, 07:47:09 PM
@Gary,
The only load is the meter... or whatever load there is when the coil is connected to 25 feet of wire then another coil, with a meter in the middle reporting what is happening.
Yes, I just went back to reread John's posts.
He said to put a diode so that what goes out into the next coil/cap will not flush back.
Of course I am not sure if electrons are moving or if pos charge is flowing so I am always putting diodes in backwards, then removing them and putting them in backwards again.
(It is great to be very spatial but because of it I miss the details others get. And, especially in electronic circuits, because they are SOO linear. It is the reason I ask for the little details so much.)
I am deciding I have all of it right or close enough except for the impedance.
If I have 1.6mH and 1.7 ohm resistance, I do not have enough.
The thing is I do have something, and I should be able to at least prove the concept without building another coil. (#14)
Then I can scale it up.
(Kinda the way I did with the leds and the jtc.)
So, how to I add a load when nothing turns on?
Is a load some kind of magic item I have missed?
I admit I assumed a load would be ignored with too little happening.
Maybe what I could do is take my nongalvanic NS type coil and try adding caps and coils and diodes and caps and see if something happens.
thank you,
jeanna
Jeanna
Not having a load is enough to stop the whole circuit
If you think about it you are trying to make a circuit with more and more free flowing electrons........then asking all those electrons to squeeze through a volt meter..........the volt meter has been desigined to let as few as possible electrons through
Did you say that you bought a LOA floodlight?
If so......try connecting it to a JT with reasonable power.
Do not bother taking it apart.
If it lights up a little with low power it is a good general purpose load.
I am guessing it will not do that......none of the newer ones I have will do that........they all stay off until the power is higher .....then they come on at full power.
A light bulb can make a good general purpose load.
Even if it is not lighting up at all it is still conducting current a a specific resistance level........
Maybe someone more experienced can make a suggestion on what kind of light bulb ( or other load ) you might want to start with.
gary
@Gary,
I got some of those low voltage christmas bulbs. I have not been able to light them with the spikes but maybe stubblefield primary will do it.
jeanna
John:
I, for one, am honored that you have joined us here. I have great respect for your knowledge and what you have been able to accomplish with your work. I also know that your successes have brought you a lot of BS as well. That really should not happen here.
If someone does not like the way you are sharing information with us, so be it, they don't have to read it. I know that I, and many others reading this topic, welcome ANY information you have that you feel like sharing ANY way that YOU choose to do so. If they are expecting to be spoon fed, they are in the wrong place anyway.
So please remain here with us. I am looking forward to learning from you.
Thank you,
Bill
Quote from: john_bedini on February 03, 2010, 07:31:49 PM
Resonanceman,
I'm not here for any reason, but I have learned a long time ago not to spoon feed people or they do not learn anything. That is what I said and nothing more. I have not given you any riddles it was just the best way to say it. You may have all the information I have on Stubblefield, no questions asked.
If you read into my comment that I'm going to speak in riddles your wrong, sorry for that. I don't know all the answers to this either. I'm also tired of all the BS about me and what I do. I have been real honest here about what I know concerning Stubblefield, but if you see otherwise I'm glad to go on my way.
John B
John
from my previous post
Quote
I do not believe that anyone but John can say why he is here.
I will give him some space.
I will let him answer as he sees fit without further comment on it.
I have said my peace........ I will not comment any more on this.
I believe we have to work as a team if we are going to find solutions to our energy problems fast enough.
I think it is good that you are here .......part of teamwork is accepting people for who thay are.
I can do that ......I just felt I had to make a point first
gary
Ok, the Stubbles are in the Field and the Earth is a Battery, and Induction Coils are Replicating! =]
Mags
Quote from: jeanna on February 03, 2010, 08:08:42 PM
@Gary,
I got some of those low voltage christmas bulbs. I have not been able to light them with the spikes but maybe stubblefield primary will do it.
jeanna
Jeanna
If I understand what you are trying to do.......lighting the lights at this point is not the goal ........try to build up the resonance until they light....... It might take quite a few " buckets"
gary
Quote from: Magluvin on February 03, 2010, 07:39:39 PM
Nothing against ya Resman, You and I hung out at the spark gap for a bit, but people are people and we should respect everyone as they are. =]
Mags
Mags
I am not done with that spark gap yet........but I have to many things going.
Did you build one?
Do you have any experience with those IGTs?
I am thinking that they might be real useful once we get the power level up a little.
gary
Gary,
I'm sorry if I offended you in some way. But yes you did make the first point.
My question to you is what do think was going on in the Stubblefield cell?
Do you think it had anything to do with Gravity waves?
Do you think it had to do with galvanic action between metals?
JB
Quote from: resonanceman on February 03, 2010, 08:45:37 PM
John
from my previous post
I have said my peace........ I will not comment any more on this.
I believe we have to work as a team if we are going to find solutions to our energy problems fast enough.
I think it is good that you are here .......part of teamwork is accepting people for who thay are.
I can do that ......I just felt I had to make a point first
gary
Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 03, 2010, 08:12:10 PM
I agree Pirate, Bedini is probably 1 of very few who really knows how Stubblefield did what he did, and I think we should pay attention to everything Bedini can enlighten us with. I would be interested in hearing more about this interrupter, which was the "make and break." Running arc lights and charging capacitors sounds great.. The Stubblefield heater design is probably my favorite.
So Bedini briefly talked about plate cells which were a great distance from each other. They measured voltage but no current, yet the system was running. That should at least tell us, what we are looking for won't be seen with any multimeter, and we are certainly not looking for current or amps. I have blown so many fuses without going over the amp limit, perhaps this energy is the culprit? Question is, how do you know you have it, when we have nothing to detect it, or do we?
Quote from: john_bedini on February 03, 2010, 09:15:48 PM
Gary,
I'm sorry if I offended you in some way. But yes you did make the first point.
My question to you is what do think was going on in the Stubblefield cell?
Do you think it had anything to do with Gravity waves?
Do you think it had to do with galvanic action between metals?
JB
John
I have not been offended by anyone in a very long time.
I am on a mission here........ I may not be that good at it so far.......but that is beside the point.
I speak my mind then move on ........ as far as I am concerned it is ancient history now.
I have never heard of the idea of the Stubblfield coil using gravity waves ..........I know nothing about gravity waves except they are very dificult to detect.
I am sure that the Stubblfield coil is not about galvanic action....it may be part of it...........but not a major part.
Stubblfireld coils do not corrode as much as a purely galvanic process would.
I would say that the stubblfield coil is closer to a scaler energy receiver than it is to a battery
It is my belief that this energy is more electrostatic than electromagnetic ( radiant energy )
gary
Quote from: Freezer on February 03, 2010, 09:32:00 PM
Question is, how do you know you have it, when we have nothing to detect it, or do we?
Freezer
John suggested an electroscope on a previous post.
Just a piece of foil hanging over a wire ......in a jar.
If the foil hangs straight down there is no charge
If it pushes away from itself ....you have a charge
gary
Quote from: resonanceman on February 03, 2010, 09:49:26 PM
Freezer
John suggested an electroscope on a previous post.
Just a piece of foil hanging over a wire ......in a jar.
If the foil hangs straight down there is no charge
If it pushes away from itself ....you have a charge
gary
Yes, thanks, I'm going to try that out, seems simple enough to build.
Mark,
Boy your coil sure looks like this!!
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=33.msg1571#msg1571
Just posted this AM
Chet
Resonanceman,
Gary, you have been involved in the stubblefield arena for some years, you have achieved a fair bit during this time, you have posted really helpful suggestions also have replicated successfully and we respect this, but, your last posts on your reflections about receiving and complaining about the type of "advice" is way off beam chum, and bordering on extreme rudeness.
Mabe you had a rough day at the office, so do we all at times, BUT, we need to reign in our "blunt" thoughts sometimes.
OK, it's a free world, and we all have an "opinion" and like to share it with others, but there are ways to express one self without belting the ears publically of the "teacher".
As John has said, he is not going to "spoon feed" us, and frankly, he is correct, John wants you to begin to think outside the "square" begin to stretch your grey matter a bit as this is how we learn.
I would love every question I ever asked to be answered stright away, but it simply isn't possible, and I would NOT learn properly.
In a PM, I asked someone the other day about a certain matter about Ultra Violet and Rife, it was several days before I got a reply, it wasn't ,,,this will do this or this will do that,, rather it was "indicated" to me on a single line, I was on the right track and I thank that person.
How did I react? when I read it, I said WOWWwwwwww, I said, here was an astounding answer I could understand, and the answer was HUGE in it's implications, and I sent off a short thank you.
In regards to the "ford ignition coil" you indicate you are not interrested, but John was giving you and US all, a precious "KEY" to one of the most essential "components" to make the Stubblefield coil work without actually telling you word by word, blow by blow.
I have posted just this "key" several times, but no one "bothered" to understand me, and actually build it, because they might have thought "how does it fit into the layout of things" and ignored it, so we are our worst enemy.
If you had "bothered" to go and google Henry Fords Coil, you would have found a photo of this item, (my own dad spoke about these things when I was a nipper) and said they are capable of knocking you on your BUM hard. You would have also have "seen" the inturnel circuitry, its "trembler" switch.
Ask at a car measum to take a look at one, its all "keys" into getting the stubblefield coil working.
My dad said, that when a ford ign coil (key (in it's wooden box)) was fittered to the "outside" of a vehicle, it was a good crowd knocker downer.
Then you are lamenting further on in your post, you don't know the answers, do yourself a favor, GET OFF YOUR BACKSIDE AND LOOK man and stop attacking the single most amazing man alive today who I rate with the greats in the field of inventions and knowledge.
If you are not prepared to "research" the topic, then find something else thats easier to do.
So pull your horns in mate.
TO ALL, (and me too)
The trembler switch as John has posted is just that, I can see "why" he has posted this information, and to explain this you need to know that the magetic energy does not flow in a rythemic pattern, as we seem to think it does. (research research research) I posted in the past, I read where a woman could actually "see" this energy as a green wave of troufts and wave tops like the sea. IT EXISTS.
This "energy" is by it's very nature "twists and turns" and follows it's own parth, (sometimes several streams as John has indicated) hence John has said, look for a favorable location and pick the best area to place the instrument.
Stubblefield gave a good hint, look for evergreen trees.
What instrument? a moving coil meter, galvometer type of instrument, also the Hivolt tin foil meter (Iindicator), sorry all, the humble DMM will have to be put away until later on. Use a neon "tube"
Like a stream of water, sometimes it flows at a trickle, later on as a rushing torrent, sometimes it can even move away from it's normal water coarse or channel.
And THAT IS WHY you need to make a switch that can keep in sync with the fluxuating nature of this energy. As each wave passes by the stubblefield coil, it ill impart energy into the coil, then at the peek of this passing energy, the "switch" opens, the magnetic energy is dumped, the lines of magnetic flux collapses and the INDUCED voltage appears in the secondary coil.
The mechanical reed switch automatically reacts to the fluxations in the frequency of the magnetic field exactly, Thats why we need to use it.
Without a magnetic sencing switch, the coil gets saturated and it just cannot work.
How to make a mechanical reed switch? Its similer to an ordinary soloinoid or relay that many cars have.
It will have 2 contacts, one contact will need to be fixed solid so it cannot move, make it out of wood with a brass screw contact.
Make the next contact out of a stiff but slightly flexable bar of something.
Glue a iron bit under the 2nd flexing bar. Place this close as possible to the strongest magnetic field.
Line the lot up and mount it so it can "sence" the magnetic field in the iron bar and the iron bifilar turns.
I may be wrong about this, but I cannot see a set of wires coming out of the bottom of the NS coil NS patent and this reflects what John mentioned of placing the switcher inside the NS coil assembly. How I simply don't know right now, but like the old 2 or 3 coil mechanical generator regulators, (Lucas, Bosch) they had adjustable screws and leavers to adjust the point "gaps" and coil tensions, so this is something else we will need to look at.
Gary, as far as I am concerned, you are still a team player, if I get out of line, I'm sure you will be the frst one to let me know.
Jeanna, I see someone else answered your Q for me, no worries.
John, I value your input immensly and hope you will remain with us.
hooroo
jim
@All,
The Nathan Stubblefield Papers.
The following bears repeating, a couple of orig NS members here will already be aware of this, but others may not know of this information so I will repeat it.
A couple of years ago, on the forum, (LocalJoe's) we were passing back and forth the cotton and silk arguments on copper wires etc etc.
During this I became aware of an old trunk which contained some of Nathan Stubblefield PAPERS, it was "discovered" just reciently (back then) and I made a special effort to find out the contents of it.
This trunk was given many many years ago to the University of Kentucky, I contacted the people looking after this "trunk" and requested they photo copy any papers that might be inside it.
A couple of people went and visited the Nathan Stubblefield Display there and posted photos of what they had seen.
There were 69 pages involved, most were very tatty looking, and had been affected by the ingress of the elements, but they are still readable.
Some images in these papers do exist in better shape on other web sites, so there is a different supply source of original NS work.
It may be that these have all been publically released, I don't know, but if you want a copy, let me know your preferred email address, to get them to you.
I will send them in batches and hope my ISP is alowing attatchments, if not, then I will try later at night.
jim
Jim, Thanks
I might point out to you what I was trying to say. If Stubblefield was using radioactive material then the quest is in vain. Here is what I discovered from just goofing around with his battery, mind you I was more interested in the transmission aspect. I was able to transmit 12 miles as clear as a bell once I got rid of the 60 cycle hum with notch filters. The second thing was that I found something was missing from the battery. I could get the current from the cell but nothing else. For the secondary to work if I mounted a switch to the primary to short it out and then opened the switch the secondary produced high voltage. This was enough to light three neon bulbs in series. I could easily charge a capacitor to 200 volts. I do not know if the patent showed the hook up for that as I think it was left out. I connected the primary wires in series at the bottom of the coil and the top two I switched. I could have easily run an SG motor between the switch points as it did become very magnetic. I did not have time to finish what I was doing as my wife came first. As soon as my friend comes over I will scan the Borderlands information for the group, everything that is contained on earth batteries. The other thing is the points system of the model T coil will work for the interrupter, except we have reed switches today that would do this easy. This would drive a transistor switch very well and we would have it working. Bill did run a SG motor from the ground....... He could have chaged other batteries.
But I must go on because I also found that building a gravity wave detector with coils could charge capacitors much easier and requires small amount of voltage to run it which the earth could supply. I also know that Gravity plays a very important part in all this because it can be electric too. Three forces at work here Gravity Magnetism electricity all seem to be one and the same just different conversions. :)
JB
Somthing I found On Stubblefield.
Kentucky took the great leap into broadcasting, when on July 18, 1922 at 7:30 p.m., Credo Fitch Harris announced to all, who might have been able to hear, "This is WHAS, the radiotelephone broadcasting station of the Courier-Journal and Louisville Times in Louisville, Ky."
While that evening brought the state's first licensed radio station into the annals of history, many believe that the history of broadcasting in Kentucky is rooted in an event 30 years earlier, when a Calloway County farmer, Nathan B. Stubblefield, picked up a device he had invented and spoke the words "Hello, Rainey" to a friend a short distance away, without the use of wires. That demonstration of his "wireless telephone," in 1892, near Murray, Kentucky, has led to the claim that radio was invented in the state. Stubblefield's words to Rainey T. Wells antedated Guglielmo Marconi's "wireless telegraph" of dots and dashes by three years.
The question of whether Nathan B. Stubblefield is the true inventor of radio has been shrouded in mystery and controversy. He was a self-educated man and experimenter, who spent a great deal of time alone or with his son, Bernard; tinkering with electronic equipment, and reading scientific journals, where he had learned of the work of people like Alexander Graham Bell, Heinrich Hertz, James Clark Maxwell, and Nikola Tesla.
Recollections of Murray neighbors picture him as a reclusive and temperamental individual, who demanded privacy and secrecy regarding any of his work.
From Stubblefield's many experiments and inventions, he obtained four patents. The first was a lighting device, patented in 1885. He went on to patent a mechanical telephone, what he called an "electric battery," and the last patent was on his wireless telephone. The invention of the mechanical-type telephone set Stubblefield up in that business for a short time, including the manufacture of the instruments, and the rights to the system on a national basis, and installation of systems in Murray and a few other towns. His interest in telephones doubtless led to his experiments with wireless voice transmissions.
According to statements by Edward Freeman in a Courier-Journal article in 1939, Stubblefield actually demonstrated the ability of wireless communication as early as 1885. Dr. Rainey Wells documented the successful demonstration in 1892; and family physician, Dr. W. H. Mason, testified to witnessing demonstrations in that year, in which Stubblefield spoke and played the French harp over the air.
On January 1, 1902, about a thousand Murray residents were witnesses to Stubblefield's invention, and that event, along with private demonstrations for a reporter, brought about a story in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. The story reported that he had established five listening stations in various parts of the town square area, one about six blocks away from the transmitter. Then the reporter told of Mr. Stubblefield's son taking his place at the transmitter, and talking in a tone of voice, such as is ordinarily used in telephoning. "Bernard whispered, whistled, and played a large harmonica; and simultaneously, it was reported that everyone heard on the receivers, and with remarkable distinctness."
Increased publicity and interest led Stubblefield to the nation's capital on March 20th for another public demonstration. He sent signals from aboard the steamer "Bartholdi" on the Potomac River to those people on the shore. The next day's editions of the Washington Evening Star hailed the remarkable invention of a Bluegrass farmer. Stubblefield would conduct demonstrations of the wireless telephone in Philadelphia and New York, with his son, Bernard, assisting.
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Nathan B. Stubblefield and his son "at the microphone" during the Philadelphia demonstration of his equipment on May 30, 1902.
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Stubblefield reported to acquaintances that he had turned down lucrative offers for the patent rights to his invention several times. However, while in New York, he did agree to participate in the commercial marketing of the device with the establishment of the Wireless Telephone Company of America. He received shares of stock in the company and was listed as a director and inventor. A fraud from the start, the company, with addresses in New York and Boston, was actually incorporated in Arizona, a territory where corporation laws were more liberal.
Stubblefield, a man of integrity, refused to go along with some of the company's schemes, and concluded that the main promoters were guilty of deception and suspect in character. Disillusioned and disgusted, he left New York for his hometown with worthless stock, and a bad impression of the big city crowd.
Four years after the failure of that venture, Stubblefield enlisted financial support from several men in Murray for the purpose of finally obtaining a patent for his wireless telephone. E. G. Siggers was employed as a Washington attorney; and the application was filed for a patent on a practical, portable wireless telephone, with transmitter and receiving equipment for telephoning from moving objects (needing no earth connections) or from local stations, as desired. The patent application was denied, based on the fact that two similar patents had been granted in 1886 and 1894 to other individuals.
Stubblefield and his attorney began the task of trying to prove his invention was worthy of its own recognition, and after several explanations, a patent (No. 887,357) was granted on May 12, 1908, for "improvements" in wireless telephone equipment.
In order to make the invention a commercial success, Stubblefield worked with friend, politician Conn Linn, to enlist potential investors, but very little interest was found. Except for an occasional experiment, observed by his neighbors, he would live out his days alone in a shack near Murray, his wife and children having left years earlier.
Two weeks before his death, Stubblefield visited a neighbor, Mrs. L. E. Owen, and asked her to write his life story. He told her he had lived 50 years before his time, and had now perfected the greatest invention the world has ever known. He declared that he had taken light from the air and earth, as he had done with sound. No one knows for sure what device he was referring to, but residents often talked of the bright lights and weird sounds that would come regularly from near his home. Scraps of paper and remnants of various pieces of an apparatus were found after his death, but never quite understood. On March 30, 1928, Nathan Stubblefield's body was found in the small house. He died of starvation, penniless, and with little notoriety for his years of effort.
On March 28, 1930, the city of Murray honored Nathan Stubblefield by unveiling a monument in his honor on the campus of Murray State College. Dr. Rainey T. Wells, president of the college, and other early friends, along with his two daughters, were among the 2,500 people attending the special ceremony. The monument is inscribed with these words: "Here, in 1902, Nathan Stubblefield (1860-1928), inventor of radio, broadcast and received human voice by wireless. He made experiments ten years earlier. The home was 100 feet west."
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The first marine demonstration of wireless telephony took place on the Potomac River, March 20, 1902. Nathan Stubblefield (third from left) erected an antenna at each end of the steamer Bartholdi to receive and send the radio messages.
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Conn Linn and one of Stubblefield's sons, Nathan, Jr., would later attempt to trace the wireless patents with the intention of filing infringement suits, and hopefully collecting damages. They asserted that all points of the suit were in order, but the courts ruled the statute of limitations had expired. Linn wrote in a letter to Mr. Vernon Stubblefield, in 1950, that had they pursued the matter earlier, it would have meant untold riches.
Has Nathan B. Stubblefield been denied his rightful place in history, and the wealth associated with such a monumental invention as radio?
Few general knowledge history books or encyclopedias even mention his name in association with the development of broadcasting. Some media industry historians have taken brief note of the man. Erik Barnouw, in his widely-respected book, A Tower in Babel, speaks of the mysterious figure of Stubblefield, his wireless demonstration, and his patent. Sterling and Kittross, in their chronicles of American broadcasting, include a diagram of the Stubblefield telephone in their book, Stay Tuned. They devote a paragraph to his demonstrations, mentioning his ground conduction, and later induction methods of transmission. They make note that others had experimented with these systems earlier than 1892. A more extensive article on Stubblefield was written by Thomas Hoffer and appears in the book, American Broadcasting, edited by Lichty and Topping. Hoffer contends that Stubblefield most certainly broadcast voice without wire as early as 1892. The question is whether the so-called "black box" actually contained methods that would be the basis of long-distance radio broadcasting with sustained radio frequency oscillations. Or was Stubblefield working with a more primitive electronic method, generally known by other experimenters of that era, and subsequently discarded in favor of better technology? He concludes that it was the latter, and that Stubblefield did not "invent radio."
Smithsonian radio historian Elliott Sivowitch has written that, while Marconi did not invent radio completely on his own, it was his successful work which would be the basis for later refinement of the system. He has explained the technical differences in Stubblefield's "telephone" and radio broadcasting. At least two doctoral dissertations have included extensive material on the Stubblefield story, one by David H. Miller, and another by former Murray professor, Thomas Morgan.
There are some who believe Stubblefield is the true father of radio, especially those associated with the Murray area, who have worked for decades to give Stubblefield a place in broadcasting history. The Murray Ledger-Times has, over the years, contained numerous articles on the story, and the Courier-Journal has helped to keep the memory and aura of the Stubblefield saga alive. Several resolutions have been passed in the Commonwealth regarding his achievements, including a declaration by the Kentucky Legislature in 1944, honoring Stubblefield for his outstanding scientific contribution and public service, and asserting he was the "father of radio."
In May of 1961, after an impassioned speech by Murray Chamber of Commerce President James Johnson, the Kentucky Broadcasters Association passed a resolution recognizing Stubblefield as the "real inventor of radio," and presented a plaque to Johnson and WNBS station manager Chuck Shuffett, so stating that belief. (WNBS radio in Murray takes its call letters from the inventor's initials.)
Murray State University has been the source of much information on Stubblefield. Patent papers, letters, affidavits, and newspaper clippings are on file there, and at the University of Kentucky, under the title of the "Stubblefield Papers." Some radio and television feature programs over the years have briefly investigated and often sensationalized the story. Entries in early editions of the World Almanac and Famous First Facts have given credit to him for wireless telephony demonstrations, and the first ship-to-shore broadcasts.
The city of Murray refers to itself as the "birthplace of radio;" L. J. Hortin, a former Murray State journalism professor, often spoke and wrote in defense of this designation. Dr. Ray Mofield, a broadcaster and former member of the university faculty, states in an article written in 1990 for the Kentucky Encyclopedia that he believes Stubblefield invented radio, because the wireless telephone formed the foundation for later developments in broadcasting.
In 1991, Keith Stubblefield, a.k.a. Troy Cory, a California pop singer, returned to Kentucky to announce plans to establish a museum to honor his grandfather, Nathan, and purchase the Murray radio station. He made several appeals to the Smithsonian Institution to establish a display to honor his ancestor. The Smithsonian officials, after witnessing demonstrations, and examining the artifacts offered by Cory, agreed to accept the exhibit, but Cory refused when they failed to acknowledge Stubblefield as the true inventor of radio.
Cory (Stubblefield) continued his attempts at his stated goal to rewrite history, and wanted the National Association of Broadcasters to change their awards from the Marconi to the Stubblefield awards. His appeal to the Kentucky Broadcasters Association board for help met some opposition. Instead of a resolution stating that Stubblefield was the inventor of radio, the KBA recognized him for his work as an early developer of "wireless" communication; and declared 1992, the 100th anniversary of the Murray experiments, as "the year of Nathan Stubblefield." Governor Wallace Wilkinson joined in to set aside 1992 in his honor, and stated him to be the inventor of radio.
Cory, in an interview with the Associated Press, said he wanted to educate the public about the real beginnings of broadcasting. He promised to get recognition for his grandfather. "The children are being educated that the wrong person invented the radio, and they don't know that it was an American," declared Cory. He later marketed a volume of books on radio and television history, where he declared the true story of Nathan Stubblefield was told, and many aspects of broadcasting history revised.
The flamboyant entertainer ran into legal problems in 1992, after failing to make payments for WNBS radio, which he had purchased from Chuck Shuffett; and the station went off the air when all the workers walked out, claiming they were not being paid, either. Criminal charges were filed against him, and he was arrested at his Pasadena, California home. Cory entered an agreement to settle the charges, but later failed to appear in Calloway County Court for a deposition. He finally made restitution to the former employees and agreed to set up a Stubblefield scholarship fund at Murray State University, in exchange for dropping theft of service charges, after he had spent some nights in jail. He later told reporters he would not come back to Murray to follow through on his ambitious plans to honor his grandfather.
In the summer of 1992, to observe the centennial of the wireless experiments, two Murray State University professors, Bob Lochte and Larry Albert, built a replica of Stubblefield's wireless telephone and conducted a series of public demonstrations, including one on the Murray soccer field. They declared it was not their intention to revive the debate on the invention of radio, but merely to let the public decide. Lochte said that the invention was definitely wireless communication. Albert said they were able to reconstruct both Stubblefield's ground rod system and his wireless coil telephone, and send signals a short distance.
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Analysis:
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The most complete work on Nathan B. Stubblefield and his place in history was written by Dr. Thomas Morgan in 1971. In his doctoral dissertation, The Contribution of Nathan B. Stubblefield to the Invention of Wireless Voice Communication, Morgan researched the issue extensively, and conducted interviews with Bernard Stubblefield. Murray State librarian Charles Hinds accompanied Morgan to interview Nathan's son. Hinds says that Bernard realized that his dad's invention did not contain "Hertzian" radio frequency principles necessary for radio broadcasting. Morgan contends Stubblefield has a proper place in history, but it is not as the father of radio, because his wireless methods were not the foundation of later radio broadcasting.
The descriptions of the invention show that Stubblefield, in his early experiments, used the principle of "ground conduction," since his first devices required the placing of steel rods in the ground for transmission and reception. Stubblefield called this box his "earth cell," but had always felt that the ability to communicate without wires was not earthbound and continued to improve his apparatus and experiments.
In a second system, he discarded the ground rods and placed a copper wire coil that was connected to the battery and microphone. This method, known as "induction," caused a current from the primary coil to generate an electromagnetic audio wave through the atmosphere, and induce current in the sister units with a coil. In essence, he had a primary (transmitting) coil and a secondary (receiving) coil. By means of a switch, he could reverse the functions and have two-way communication.
In theory, this method could carry signals several miles, depending on the size of the coil. But the coil soon would become so large as to be impractical to use. Like many scientists of that day, he concluded the sound waves traveled through the electrical fluid surrounding the earth, or the "ether." It was this second method for which Stubblefield received the patent, and the phone and large coil are often seen in popular pictures of the inventor.
Therefore, concludes Morgan, the niche for Stubblefield is that of being "the first man to successfully send and receive human voice without wires." There are those who claim others also did it, but one can well document Stubblefield as the first American to make public demonstrations. In reporting on Stubblefield's 1902 demonstrations, the Scientific American magazine mentions experiments by other individuals using similar techniques.
The reason he has never been credited as being the father of "radio" may hinge on the definition of radio. The word was not being used at that time, and historians have to examine what the electronic medium of radio would later become. No one person invented the media we call radio today, but many technicians built upon the work of those before them.
A review of the various radiotelephone and broadcast patents shows Lee de Forest and Reginald Fessenden with over 200 each. Marconi, Vladimir Zworykin, John Fleming, Philo T. Farnsworth, John L. Baird, Boris Rosing, and Edwin Armstrong are others who would be credited with many innovative patents involving the development and improvement of AM and FM radio and television.
A close examination of the facts surrounding Stubblefield's invention and patent indicates the waves generated with his devices were audio frequencies on a direct current, not the radio frequency waves of the modern broadcast spectrum, necessary for long-distance communication. His method was not a modern modulation system of placing information on a continuous high-frequency carrier wave.
Other scientists in that era, including Marconi, who is dubbed the "father of radio," had experimented with induction methods similar to Stubblefield's, but realized its severe limitations, and moved on to other broader ideas that eventually formed a basis for later radiotelephone methodology. Marconi's radio telegraph could, of course, transmit signals across the oceans, and modulated radio frequency waves would later carry voices around the world.
Some may argue that Stubblefield's work was a beginning, and that he was the real pioneer of broadcasting. However, no one actually took his patents or equipment and built upon them to advance it to modern radio broadcasting. The induction method he used was not unknown at the time, since he experienced trouble even getting a patent for his invention, because of the prior work of others. By the time Stubblefield actually obtained a patent for his "wireless telephone," the science of voice transmission had already advanced well beyond his invention. Reginald Fessenden is generally credited with the first radio voice broadcast, using the modulated carrier wave methods, in 1906. Fessenden had also claimed a wireless voice transmission, using a primitive spark gap transmitter, as early as 1900. Lee deForest's perfection of the vacuum tube made long distance broadcasting practical.
There is no evidence that any of Stubblefield's inventions contained the high-frequency modulation "radiation" methods that are at the heart of radio broadcast transmissions.
Stubblefield did not patent an original idea, namely wireless telephony, although he had spoken openly about the great potential it would have for society. His patent for improvements in wireless telephone systems is not seen by historians as being any basis for later developments in wireless voice transmission. Dr. Morgan, in his research, could find no evidence of any legal body declaring the patent rights of Stubblefield had been infringed by anyone with later developments.
Dr. David Miller, in his dissertation, The Role of the Independent Inventor in the Early Development of Electrical Technology, relates that Stubblefield once felt that wireless telephony could serve the purpose of sending information from "one central station to every house in the land." He realized his invention would not fare well as a public phone system, since there was no means to create a private circuit. He hoped that he, or someone, would develop a method of tuning to individual signals. Such principles would become known and refined, as radio frequencies were better understood.
Dr. Miller concludes that Stubblefield's successes in electrical technology appear to have been limited to the practical application of known principles. "His two distinctly different wireless systems were only casually related to radiotelephony, which was being developed at approximately the same time," Miller states.
Nathan B. Stubblefield, of Murray, was able to transmit and receive the human voice without wires in public. Others had the ideas before him, but he actually constructed the devices and made several demonstrations. His limited education, his eccentricity, and lack of finances inhibited any further development of his electronic experiments that might have allowed him to refine his ideas and make further discoveries.
While attributing the invention of radio to a Kentuckian is more folklore than fact, Stubblefield certainly had visions about what such forms of communication might mean in the future. He is said to have proclaimed that, one day, his invention would be used to transmit news of every description. That prophetic message would prove more enduring that the limited technology of his invention.
Quote from: electricme on February 03, 2010, 11:33:04 PM
@All,
The Nathan Stubblefield Papers.
The following bears repeating, a couple of orig NS members here will already be aware of this, but others may not know of this information so I will repeat it.
A couple of years ago, on the forum, (LocalJoe's) we were passing back and forth the cotton and silk arguments on copper wires etc etc.
During this I became aware of an old trunk which contained some of Nathan Stubblefield PAPERS, it was "discovered" just reciently (back then) and I made a special effort to find out the contents of it.
This trunk was given many many years ago to the University of Kentucky, I contacted the people looking after this "trunk" and requested they photo copy any papers that might be inside it.
A couple of people went and visited the Nathan Stubblefield Display there and posted photos of what they had seen.
There were 69 pages involved, most were very tatty looking, and had been affected by the ingress of the elements, but they are still readable.
Some images in these papers do exist in better shape on other web sites, so there is a different supply source of original NS work.
It may be that these have all been publically released, I don't know, but if you want a copy, let me know your preferred email address, to get them to you.
I will send them in batches and hope my A is alowing attatchments, if not, then I will try later at night.
jim
John B and All
This is what I think is gong on with the NS earth cell. All this is conjecture on my part, not thru experiments. I think it is an orgone accumulator. To understand what that is you will have to research Wilhelm Reich:
http://rexresearch.com/orgone/orgone1.htm
This is also related to the Joe Cell that makes cars run on water.
An orgone accumulator is made up of alternate layers of metal and insulators. If you take NS cell and cut it in half, you will see alternate layers of metal and insulators. Same with the Joe Cell with its concentric cylinders of metal separated by water (insulator). The Joe Cell is charged with voltage with no current by using diodes to prevent current flow from either the power supply or alternator. This is more similar to static electricity. It explains what John said that you are better off using a leydan jar to detect charge and to use high impedance components.
Orgone gives of a light blue color according to Reich. Maybe this the light on the stream John saw? Once it is charged up, an orgone accumulator seems to have the ability to convert the scalar energies of the universe into usable power. I feel Reich was put in prison because his orgone devices were interfering with the secret flying saucer technology of the Military.
Once a Joe Cell is charged, it will run a car with no further input. It now converts the explosive energy of combustion into implosive energy and runs cold. It also surrounds the car with an energy that affects the air and gravity. You can roll down the windows at speed and no wind turbulence. The car feel lighter handles better and is more silent.
The orgone connection explains the early reports of the surrounding hillside of NS home that glowed with their own light and not necessarily from the arc lights. Orgone will create a large magnetic field and even aluminum will have a magnetic field. It will jump two inches of space. To turn off a runaway engine, a fail safe of at least two inches must be used. Something like a large knife switch.
In the beginning, we are using conventional electronic ideas, but once the orgone charge begans to accumulate, it makes its own rules. Rules kept secret by the military. You can go here and watch video #3. Somewhere, It will show modern military hardware showing a signature of orgone energy (scalar). All three videos are good if you are interested in alternate healing.
We must take baby steps to learn about this. I just want everyone to be aware of the potential. But, I could be wrong. What the bleep do I know.
Chris
Forgot to post link to videos:
http://thehealinguniverse.org/the-healing-universe/healing-videos.html
John,
Thank you for all that information.
I am wondering how long or how many turns approximately you used in the successful replication.
I assume this is the 1000 turns coil you suggested earlier.
I am asking for confirmation or correction, here.
3 neons in series is a lot of spiky voltage.
What was the frequency you were getting?
You said low.
I am trying to fit what you have shared with my own results.
thank you,
jeanna
Thanks Jeanna, I was wondering about that cap...whether or not it was too big. I will try a smaller one, but will keep on experimenting with the bcap also.
I have been charting 4 coils, all made of slightly differing materials, and sizes. Some do better than others. I am sure that once these get into the ground I will see better results. I just wish I had some good numbers to compare them with. And someone mentioned we cannot use the DMMs to get proper readings, and I am beginning to believe that. I have (had) three digitals, and two analog meters. The analog meters seem to be the same, but the digitals all vary. One of them blew a fuse, or worse...I think I blew the whole thing. It is whacky with several decimal points. So I don't use that one now. Will get back with you on the readings later.
John Bedini......Please don't ever think anyone wants you to leave.....WE WANT YOU TO STAY!!! Okay? Thanks. Any info you can provide will be greatly appreciated.
Electricme, I would love to have copies of those papers. I will send you my email addy by pm if that is okay. Thanks.
The Model T Ignition Coil
Part I: The Ford/K-W Ignition Company Story
By Trent Boggess and Ronald Patterson
The jump spark system employed a spark
plug, a commutator that timed the spark to the
cylinder, a battery to serve as a source of current,
and a vibrator coil. (See Photo 1). The theory of
the vibrator coil was quite complex for the time.
It consisted of two circuits of wires wound around
an iron core. (See Photo 2). The primary circuit
consisted of a number of turns of fairly heavy
gauge wire. When current from the battery
flowed through this circuit it served to turn the
iron core into an electromagnet. The seondary
circuit consisted of a very large number of turns
of a very fine wire wrapped around the same iron
core. This secondary circuit was connected to the
spark plug. When the primary circuit was broken,
the magnetic field around the iron core
collapsed, inducing an electrical current through
the secondary circuit. Because of the large number
of turns of wire in the secondary circuit, a
very strong electrical voltage was induced in it.
While brief, this high voltage was sufficient to
jump across the gap between the electrodes of the
spark plug and ignite the fuel-air mixture in the
cylinder. The term vibrator coil arose from the
use of two electrical contacts and a spring arrangement
to close and open the circuit between
the battery and the primary circuit. When the
primary circuit was closed and the iron core was
saturated with magnetism, the spring would be
attracted towards the iron core, separating the
contacts, and thus breaking the primary circuit
Once the contact was broken, the magnetic field
collapsed, inducing a high voltage in the secondary
circuit that would jump the gap at the spark
plug. At the same time, the collapse of the magnetic
field released the spring allowing the contacts
to touch and reestablish the primary circuit
and thereby start the entire process all over
again. This continuous making and breaking of
the contacts resulted in a vibration or buzzing of
the coil and an accompanying stream of sparks
It looks like 3 coils...two secondaries, and one primary. And the secondary and primary are joined at the condenser???
This may be off topic but since John B is here, I thought that I'd ask.
I have heard of a WWII earth battery that was capable of very high amp outputs. But I can not (through extensive searching on the internet) find any info on this earth battery. As though all reference has been removed. To my understanding it employed a 4' x 4' x 1/4" lead plate and I believe mercury. I know that the mercury battery was invented during WWII, but I do not believe that this battery was galvanic because of the reported output.
I believe that this groups reason for replicating the Stubblefield is because it performed way better than other earth batteries. But if this other battery worked as well as claimed, then I would like to have more information on it so that the processes of the two batteries can be compared. They may both operate on the same principles.
It may have had a specific name which is why I can't located any info, diagrams or pictures. Does anyone here have any info that they can share?
And then there is this from: http://www.modeltcentral.com/Model-T-Ford-Electrical-Specifications.html
Ignition Coil
Each Model T Ford runs using four coils, one per cylinder, housed in a coil box that features contact points for a power supply in, contact point to the timer for each coil via a wiring loom and a contact terminal for the spark plug lead. The style and location of coil boxes changed throughout the years the Model T was produced, but all do the same thing (with the early models including the ignition switch)
Each coil assembly is housed in a finger jointed timber box, filled (originally) with tar or pitch as its also known. This tar, not only holds the components in place, but adds to waterproofing and insulating the parts from each other. The parts inside include a primary coil winding, a secondary coil winding, a condenser, connecting wires and a piece of glass to divide the components.
PolishPunisher do you mean this?:
In World War II, the only commonly available dry battery was the carbon-zinc cell, which suffered greatly in the high temperatures and high humidity of some theatres of operation. The search for a better battery succeeded in 1944, with the invention of the mercury dry battery. This battery could not only resist the high temperatures and high humidity, but also had better discharge characteristics, longer shelf life, and greater efficiency.
The excellent mercury battery, and to a large extent the nickel-cadmium cell, have been suppressed because of the mercury and cadmium they contain, which are a hazard with unwise disposal of used batteries. Since it is easier to legislate the batteries out of existence than to control disposal in the face of a careless and ignorant population, this has been done.
The mercury battery has a cathode of HgO depolarizer, a KOH electrolyte, and an anode of amalgamated zinc powder. It is essentially an alkaline cell with a different and more efficient cathode. Like the alkaline cell, it is sealed in a steel case to prevent leakage of the corrosive electrolyte. The open-circuit voltage is 1.35V or 1.40V, and the polarity is reversed compared to the carbon-zinc and alkaline cells. That is, the central contact is negative, not positive, and the case is positive, not negative. The mercury battery has an excellent efficiency, consuming more than 90% of its chemicals before its terminal voltage drops substantially, when used at a current of 100mA per square inch of depolarizer surface. A typical AA size cell can take loads of up to 200 mA, either intermittent or continuous, and has an output of 2400 mA-hr, about twice that of a comparable carbon-zinc cell, and considerably more than an alkaline cell. The output voltage is quite constant, and the shelf life is long, so the mercury battery is superior. The silver oxide cell is similar, using an Ag2O depolarizer, a KOH or NaOH electrolyte, and the usual zinc anode. Its output voltage is higher, 1.5V, and so is its cost. Silver cells come only in the button size.
These cells all burn zinc to zincate, and get their energy from this reaction. Fuel cells are another chemical source of electrical energy, and not a new one. They have been around for over a century, but have always proved noncompetitive because of their size, weight and expense. They burn things like alcohol or natural gas, to water and carbon dioxide, like any fire. Fuel cells are now being developed for military use, where cost is no object. These seem rather larger and heavier than batteries, but of course they can be used continuously and replace lots of batteries if you keep feeding them alcohol. It is difficult to believe that they will ever be cheap and convenient enough to replace zinc burners.
PolishPunisher,
go to Pat2pdf.org and type in 1751359 and the patent will come up for you to save.
The patent also shows the numbers of his (Samuel Rubens) other patents.
Okay, just ONE more on the model T:
In the twentieth century induction coils took on a new form when they were used as part of the ignition system of the Model-T Ford. Consequently, this form was almost always referred to as a Ford Coil. This example, at Kenyon College, is made by the Crescent Machine Co. of Detroit, Michigan
@protonmom,
Thanks for doing all that research on the ford coil.
It is very good to have it all together here.
jeanna
John,
First off, thanks for the reply. Did the research and found out what you were talking about. Looking into rigging something on my own or finding some reed switch that might work. My Mom talked about how horrible it was to ride in "Pa's Sunday Car" with the bee's in the dash. Now I understand what she was talking about.
2nd: UH OH WOW!! Didn't know that a simple question would spark such an outpouring of emotions. I appreciate the Socratic method of teaching, I use it myself (to others complaints also). After reading your numerous other posts and works, I was hoping to be taught to fish, rather than be given a fish. Well, I got a fishing pole. Nothing worthwhile is given.
3rd: For me this further puts into perspective the era of these developments and geniuses. Tesla was working on Radiant Energy requiring "...another instrument or device for alternately closing and opening the circuit", Ford using the "trembler" to ramp up voltage, why wouldn't Stubblefield be doing the exact same thing. "Accepted" science has directed mosts interests towards nano-bots and digital solid-state devices, where sometimes the simplest solutions are the best.
We are awash in a universe of energy in one form or another. We just have to figure out how to tap it.
Thanks again and in advance,
%Heath
Quote from: john_bedini on February 02, 2010, 07:16:54 PM
Heath,
Stubbelfield had three coils not shown in the patent, think of an old model T then you will understand what I'm saying to you. I never answer the question directly on anything. I figure by doing this it forces you to think on your own so people say, john you speak in riddles. I have done all these experiments already so I know what he was doing.
I will answer this question for you. Take the basic coil, as the coil build what you call current the iron is charged. This pulls on an interrupter that breaks the ground connection. The iron discharges and you get high voltage from the secondary, with that you can run arc lights, or charge capacitors. I going to take this further here. What is Gravity and how can we catch it? Jeanna already posted a link to her pictures, what are those waves?, very good Jeanna. Now think of the TPU what does it catch? Gravity is electricity.
John B
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignition_system#Switchable_systems
model t's used 6V batteries for starting, they were in wood boxes also.
Quote from: protonmom on February 04, 2010, 07:51:09 PM
It looks like 3 coils...two secondaries, and one primary. And the secondary and primary are joined at the condenser???
Thanks for posting that Protonmom
It looks to me like there is only one secondary .
And yes the primary and the secondary are connected to one side of the cap. ( that is clearly marked in your picture.)
I would say that this circuit works just like a modern ignition coil except that it has the cap and a magneticly controled switch.
If I had an Stubblfield battery to try it on I would connect one end of the primary and one end of the secondary to a normally closed read switch........The other end of the primary is connected to the other end of the reed switch
A capacitor would be connected to BOTH ends of the reed switch
Your output would be the other end of the secondary.
I am not sure of the best way to close the circuit on the secondary......but it should not be hard.
I think this is right.............but I could be wrong
I am still pretty new at this.
Some would say that you were spoon feeding us by posting this.
I call it sharing information ........ :)
Aren't you proud of me?........ I didn't bite your spoon in two or chew your fingers off or anything like that.
:)
gary
Edit
If this works ......the reed switch will probably not last very long........a larger contact area would be needed for any real word power usage.
The screw adjustment in the pictrure could be simulated by moving the reed switch closer or farther from the core.
Because the primary of a Stubblfield coil is 2 metal bifilar ......I would hook it up like a JT with one end of the copper connecting the opposite end of the iron. then the whole thing treated as a single primary
I remember Jeanna saying that she throught that the Stubblfield coil was a JT.....if I am right.......she soon will be proved right.
I didn't really see how much like a JT it was before...........but I do now
The only real difference is we are using the pull of a magnet to interupt the flow of current with the Stubblfield ........and a transistor to control the flow with a normal JT.
I just saw this:
http://www.instructables.com/id/Quick-and-Dirty-Homemade-Reed-Switch/ (http://www.instructables.com/id/Quick-and-Dirty-Homemade-Reed-Switch/)
The concept is well explained in an animation and to make one this easily will be a very helpful thing to know.
Thanks for the suggestion Gary and John ,
@heath
Quote
We are awash in a universe of energy in one form or another. We just have to figure out how to tap it.
Not only that but, what to do with it in the form it comes to us.
Spiky volts are great and some of us have been able to use them in a (so far) limited way.
I see you have joined us, and I welcome all sincere efforts to add to our ability to use the universal energy in the forms it comes to us. (= amps ain't the whole story ;) )
jeanna
Quote from: resonanceman on February 05, 2010, 02:27:35 PM
Some would say that you were spoon feeding us by posting this.
I call it sharing information ........ :)
Aren't you proud of me?........ I didn't bite your spoon in two or chew your fingers off or anything
give it a rest gary, you made your opinion known a while back, there is no need for you to keep picking at john to satisfy your ego.
no, i don't think proud would descibe it. disappointed or embarrased would be closer...
I just thought I would post more info on the two people that used this energy. I want to give as much information as I can post in Word Doc.
John B
John:
Thank you, I will download this right away.
Bill
Quote from: WilbyInebriated on February 05, 2010, 02:38:23 PM
give it a rest gary, you made your opinion known a while back, there is no need for you to keep picking at john to satisfy your ego.
no, i don't think proud would descibe it. disappointed or embarrased would be closer...
Relax .........it was a joke.........and if it was aimed at anyone it was aimed at the people that thought I attacked John.
I stated my opinion about sharing here.........a statement I have made in the past in many different forms.
My opinion has not changed ........I still think that the only way civilization will exist for more the a generation or 2 more is if we find better energy sources.
I am sorry........I just do not have time for anyone that chooses to play word games and make riddles out of simple answers .
The whole point I was trying to make with John is a simple direct question deserves a simple direct answer.
gary
Thank you John,
This gets really interesting around page 16 or 17 on my document reader.
My time is split today, but this looks like great stuff,
thank you,
jeanna
You may want to check out this new development.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8741.msg226761#new
Regards...
Cap:
Very interesting find here. It does say it breathes but it also says it protects against water or liquids so I am not sure one way or the other if it might work on the NS coils or not. Even if it does not, this is a great advance in materials technology and might be very useful in solar applications as well.
Bill
I considered that a while too Bill...I'm thinking they didn't mean it was water tight if submerged.
The only way to know for sure would be to ask I guess.
Regards...
sorry
i tried to read back a couple hundred pages but my a.d.d. kicked in ..
can some one tell me what the highest volt and amp reading they got from a dry cell..
i bought some very low volt and ma transistors and i want to try something with this coil
even if i have to dig a hole and give it dirt..
u know i will post my research if its worth it..
robbie
Kooler
I asked the same question before, but never got any reply. It would indeed be nice to have the highest reading to compare with on our own coils. I would like the high readings from a coil BEFORE being buried in the ground, and then the high AFTER being buried. As soon as the ice and snow go away I will get mine in the ground, too.
kooler and protonmom,
That info is buried for all of us too.
I think it is unremarkable and pretty galvanic.
I do not want to say a mistake but, from memory I remember it being very low.
Look at the datalogging page for the earth battery amounts and pick a page any page from Bill's Stubblefield bifilar thread.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4455.0 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4455.0)
Most of the voltage results are the same, so whatever is reported for one stubblefield voltage will be the same for most.
From memory then...
I used annealed iron and copper which gave 0.3v, but when I switched to zinc plated iron wire and copper it was 0.7v, but that is galvanic. It was the uA that might have gotten higher with larger coils. I expect protonmom's could to produce higher ua, maybe even mA.
This is the reason the cap and the possibility of seeing an increase as a result of the caps is so hopeful.
jeanna
It is really hard to find anything when there are so many, many pages to go through. You see something, think you will remember it or at least remember where you saw it, and then poof! it is gone from memory....and forever lost in the ever-gowing pages. I will just keep fiddling with my various coils and will chart whatever I can. Even though it might seem hopeless, happy accidents DO happen. It might be I will stumble upon something that actually works...and I do say stumble because I am the first to admit that I have NO clue as to what I am doing. (at least I know more now than I did when I first joined OU)
I do think it is important that all new members should read as much as possible in these forums before asking a lot of questions because sometimes those same questions get asked over and over again.
Quote from: protonmom on February 06, 2010, 05:51:52 AM
Kooler
I asked the same question before, but never got any reply. It would indeed be nice to have the highest reading to compare with on our own coils. I would like the high readings from a coil BEFORE being buried in the ground, and then the high AFTER being buried. As soon as the ice and snow go away I will get mine in the ground, too.
I am not sure I understand this question. My 2 coils did not put out anything before I buried them...they are not supposed to. Now folks have made regular galvanic batteries using salt water and 2 metals stuck in water but that is not what Stubblefield was doing.
My results, in the ground, for my largest coil was about 1.25 volts and 55 or so mA's. Then I screwed around and added a little vinegar to the soil and my mA's shot up to about 430 or so...but...the next day, the coil was shorted and has not worked since. I should have been happy with my original results. I used only 2 layers on my coil which was 1 foot long. Solid copper wire and soft steel wire on an iron core which was galvanized. I insulated the layers and the core using cotton cut from a t-shirt and I insulated between the copper and steel wire with cotton string which was the same diameter as the wire.
That was what I call my large coil. My small coil was exactly the same only I used 1 layer of winding.
I hope this helps a little.
Bill
@Bill,
I think that over 1v figure only comes when you measure from the cu wire to the core.
I just scrolled down and found your first post with numbers on that thread
here is the direct post
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4455.msg90563#msg90563 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4455.msg90563#msg90563)
I stopped looking there. Of course there are many more after that.
jeanna
Jeanna:
How the heck did you find that? Ha ha. Yes, I think you are right. I just went back and looked over some really poorly written notes I had of that time, and I was using my memory...not so good these days.
But yes, I remember trying different things when measuring and the best was from the CU wires to the core, that is correct. And, if i remember right, you wondered if those numbers were higher because my core was galvanized to which I think I replied that I didn't know. Wow, this brings back memories for sure.
Thanks for finding that.
Bill
;D ;D
Yes,
Actually, I read one 50 post page and began another, it came crashing through that we all did get much higher results with the core connection.
It was always something that seemed important since we were looking for a higher effect because of the earth.
It was and is still pretty mysterious.
Not as mysterious as my camera at the moment, however... aargh!
jeanna
Jeanna, do you mean bare wire on core ?
Like for instance, having the first layer wound directly contacting the core, and thereafter wound with cotton cloth insulation.
I'm trying to conceptualize what NS was doing.
So far I'm thinking he was bouncing the earths pulse with his 'make and break' and and amplifying the pulse with osculating resonant capacitors, of which charge can later be used to make the initial pulse when restarting...if that makes any sense.
So coil core connection/relationship is relevant to my thoughts on this.
Thanks.
Regards...
Quote from: Cap-Z-ro on February 06, 2010, 08:50:10 PM
Jeanna, do you mean bare wire on core ?
Sorry cap,
We never got that far, I don't think.
I mean the meter probes when placed to the cu wire and to the core bolt always gave us the best voltage.
It seemed significant, but since we couldn't go beyond this, it was inconclusive.
I actually had one NS coil that had a secondary that produced results. It was unfortunately a step-down secondary, so the results were lower, but it gave me hope.
jeanna
If only there was someone from his area that saved one of his old units.
*tries channeling Nate S*
Regards...
Cap-Z-ro, the core bolt is supposed to be insulated. The copper wire was covered in cotton or silk, the iron wire was bare but NS also said it could be covered and it would not affect the outcome. Then after the first layer was wound, the whole layer was covered in a cotton wrap. Then you start the second layer and repeat. All my coils are started at the top and end at the top, but I noticed some people start at one end and finish at the other. Don't see where it makes much difference, except I think it is easier to have both at one end.
Thanks for clearing that up pmom...now I just have to figure the dynamics between the bolt and the 2 windings.
Regards...
I just finished my new baby (coil number 6) and I think I have good news for you. I believe I have gotten readings off the secondary! I am at a loss when it comes to actually reading the DMM as usual, so I will just give you all the numbers and hope someone can interpret it for me.
V. A. Battery
200=.8 20m=.22 1.5V=.014
20=.90 200m=.1 9V=.21
2=.916 12V=.28
200m=1
Remember this is off the secondary!
Quote from: protonmom on February 07, 2010, 07:30:43 AM
the iron wire was bare but NS also said it could be covered and it would not affect the outcome.
Don't see where it makes much difference, except I think it is easier to have both at one end.
Bare Iron covered by cotton , but not insulating material .
The windings are directional , to make a better electromagnet .
@john
You mentioned getting only amps reading , i bet that was with both coils connected at one end .
Mark
Hmmm…………….Upon taking a closer look at my coil, I am going to have to say it is a SecondaryPrimary, not just a secondary. In effect, I am using both the primary and secondary together as one long string.
Quote from: protonmom on February 07, 2010, 02:39:56 PM
I just finished my new baby (coil number 6) and I think I have good news for you. I believe I have gotten readings off the secondary! I am at a loss when it comes to actually reading the DMM as usual, so I will just give you all the numbers and hope someone can interpret it for me.
V. A. Battery
200=.8 20m=.22 1.5V=.014
20=.90 200m=.1 9V=.21
2=.916 12V=.28
200m=1
Remember this is off the secondary!
This is great.
You are getting 0.9v from your secondary as read by the dmm.
We know from the joule thief work that this number is low and likely to be much higher than this if you were to read it through a scope.
Maybe even 10 or 20 times higher, btw.
QuoteAll my coils are started at the top and end at the top, but I noticed some people start at one end and finish at the other. Don't see where it makes much difference, except I think it is easier to have both at one end.
That is how he pictured it.
In his patent he refers you to the picture.
The funny thing is the picture is either incomplete, or wrong, because you cannou have an odd number of rows that end at the same side as the beginning.
Oh well, here we go again!
I am so glad this is coming together like this.
I took scope readings this summer but the ac showed less than 100mV.
Great going.
How many rows and ABOUT how many turns are on this and how many on the secondary please. This is very important for us all to know this.
thank you,
jeanna
Mk1,
Yes, the bolt and the layers are covered in cotton. What did you mean by the windings are directional for better electromagnet? Did you mean we should start at one end and finish at the other, or did you mean we should start both at one end and finish at same end? I think Stubblefield showed us to start at one end and finish at same end. Which way do you make them?
Jeanna, I am not sure you still want that info since I goofed up. I cannot now say it is off the secondary alone. Still want the number of windings etc? If so, give me a minute to check.
Yes, and I want the details of the goof too.
Thanks.
jeanna
My goof is that I called it a Secondary reading, when I should have called it a SecondaryPrimary or something like that.
8 layers of primary and over 200 windings of secondary. Primary is approx. 20 ga and secondary is approx. 22 ga. Primary wires covered in cotton only. Secondary is mag wire, so no covering at all. Center bolt is iron insulated in electrical tape End disks are wood.
So are these good readings then? If I were to bury it, surely I would get higher results.
**
I also have a big baby here that gets pretty good reads off the primary. Once it has cooked in the ground for a bit, it might even give us something good from the secondary.. The latest read on THAT coil is as follows:
V. 200=.8 A. 20m=12.91 Batt 1.5V=.409
20=.85 200m=18.6 9v=.620
2=.869 12V=.66
No secondary on that one as of yet.
All my bolts in my coils are about 9 inches long. The end disks are about 4 inches wide. Most coils are filled up to edge of disk, or as close to it as I could get without running out of wire. The biggest coil yet has disks that are 6 inches wide. Once I get enough wire prepared, I will start adding secondaries to those coils.
I have a scope but have not learned how to use it yet.
Quote from: protonmom on February 07, 2010, 03:24:35 PM
Mk1,
Yes, the bolt and the layers are covered in cotton. What did you mean by the windings are directional for better electromagnet? Did you mean we should start at one end and finish at the other, or did you mean we should start both at one end and finish at same end? I think Stubblefield showed us to start at one end and finish at same end. Which way do you make them?
Like the patent , that way every layer work in the same direction(to make a better electromagnet ).
Mark
Quote from: protonmom on February 07, 2010, 03:48:24 PM
My goof is that I called it a Secondary reading, when I should have called it a SecondaryPrimary or something like that.
8 layers of primary and over 200 windings of secondary. Primary is approx. 20 ga and secondary is approx. 22 ga. Primary wires covered in cotton only. Secondary is mag wire, so no covering at all. Center bolt is iron insulated in electrical tape End disks are wood.
So are these good readings then? If I were to bury it, surely I would get higher results.
**
I also have a big baby here that gets pretty good reads off the primary. Once it has cooked in the ground for a bit, it might even give us something good from the secondary.. The latest read on THAT coil is as follows:
V. 200=.8
20=.85 200m=18.6
2=.869
No secondary on that one as of yet.
OK this is the results on the primary.
Thanks.
I crossed out what you do not need.
You do not need the battery thing, unless you are totally lost.
Do you see that
0.8v and
0.85v are the same on those 2 lines? It is just that the 0.85 is more accurate.
The one in the range that maxes at 2v shows the most detail and gives it to you in mV so it tells you 869mV
which is just more accurate.
You want to use the most accurate and detailed you can, so turn the dial to the smallest where it says 1 then turn it up a notch.
I used to turn it up 2 notches when I was starting out to be sure I was understanding.
And, please believe me there was a long time when I was not able to get this either. Just keep plugging at it, and you will too.
Thank you for the details.
You have some very big coils.
I think you stand to be the first to get something useful from a NS coil secondary here.
jeanna
Can't you find any silk?
It makes the wires so much closer to each other. It is my coils wound with silk and using annealed iron that gave me any results...(the little green one #3, did from the get go. It is just too short a secondary)
Yes, Silk is on my list of to-do projects. I just like working with the cotton better as the silk frays so much. Eventually I will use some silk.
Thanks for trying to explain those numbers to me. So, I should just go up one from wherever I see a number 1 and use that as my reading. I almost always get a 1 on the V 200m, so I should just use the 2 or maybe the 20.
As you can probably guess, I plan to keep making coils. Each one may be just a little bit different from the others, which is good for comparison.
Question…..
Why is it that I am able to get AC readings on these coils sometimes? When I do, I re-check them and it still comes out the same. Is that just a fluke? Or is it because the coil is oscillating, which this last one and the big one both do. ?? Would that cause the meter to give AC readings?
Quote from: protonmom on February 07, 2010, 05:28:04 PM
Yes, Silk is on my list of to-do projects. I just like working with the cotton better as the silk frays so much. Eventually I will use some silk.
wet it?
QuoteThanks for trying to explain those numbers to me. So, I should just go up one from wherever I see a number 1 and use that as my reading. I almost always get a 1 on the V 200m, so I should just use the 2 or maybe the 20.
exactly.
you almost always have more than 200mV or 0.2v in your coil. That is right.
QuoteQuestion…..
Why is it that I am able to get AC readings on these coils sometimes?
Bill and I sand others asked this as well. It is not a real reading. It is your meter's best guess, since you asked. But when You put your scope on it you will see the real reading.
Why don't you see what the scope says?
Do you have the probe?
Stick the gatorplug on one end =ground, and then the long clip think probe to the other and see. Since you know what the dc volts are, and the sec will start at 50mVac, so there is no danger to the scope, but you will need it on a very sensitive setting.
Mine is different, but if I cannot help maybe someone will pull himself away from the game during the ads and answer. ;)
jeanna
@77eagles
Quote from: 77eagles on February 05, 2010, 01:35:13 AM
John,
First off, thanks for the reply. Did the research and found out what you were talking about. Looking into rigging something on my own or finding some reed switch that might work. My Mom talked about how horrible it was to ride in "Pa's Sunday Car" with the bee's in the dash. Now I understand what she was talking about.
2nd: UH OH WOW!! Didn't know that a simple question would spark such an outpouring of emotions. I appreciate the Socratic method of teaching, I use it myself (to others complaints also). After reading your numerous other posts and works, I was hoping to be taught to fish, rather than be given a fish. Well, I got a fishing pole. Nothing worthwhile is given.
3rd: For me this further puts into perspective the era of these developments and geniuses. Tesla was working on Radiant Energy requiring "...another instrument or device for alternately closing and opening the circuit", Ford using the "trembler" to ramp up voltage, why wouldn't Stubblefield be doing the exact same thing. "Accepted" science has directed mosts interests towards nano-bots and digital solid-state devices, where sometimes the simplest solutions are the best.
We are awash in a universe of energy in one form or another. We just have to figure out how to tap it.
Thanks again and in A,
%Heath
1/ 2/ 3/ all very nice indeed, poetic almost, now I learnt something today, mechanical electric radient bees.
I have thought all these famous inventors would have written to each outher privatly, probably giving an outline of what they would have been worknig on, giving each other advice, now wouldn't this be a treasure trove of information.
I have done similar things in PMs, ha ha.
@protonmom,
Excellent work on researching the Model T Ignition coil.
Only 1 adjustment is shown on the circuit cutaway on the ford coil (K-W), did anyone see the second adjustment point?
What isn't widly known is there is a "air gap" adjustment, between the soft oron core and the contact spring, at the "top Left".
A "feeler guage" would be placed between the Pole piece and the contact spring, then a flat bladed screw driver placed inside the U shaped bracket and prisng it wider "reduces" the "pole" gap. (makes it more reactive/sensitive to magnetic fields).
The closer the contact spring is to the soft iron core, the stronger the pull on the contact spring.
So if the contact spring air gap is very very close to the soft iron core laminations, it will take far less magnetism to open the contact points.
The vibrator adjusting nut is wound down a little bit further, so it makes electrical "contact" when the contact spring is closer to the soft iron core.
We need to apply these principles to the stubblefield coil.
@jeanna,
A long time ago I remember you making a remark that your compus needle would fluctuate a little bit if it was placed close to one of your stubblefields, if you can make a sensitive contact spring, I think you will be well on the way to making this thing work.
@Rennanceman
You are very good with making "stuff", any chance of us all seeing a contact spring assembly from you? something that can work with milli guss.
@John Bedini,
I have a special question, "if a iron bar has been reduced to a point at one end, would there be a concentration of the magnetic field at that point"?
I ask this because if this is so, in my mind I am looking at a magnetic concentrator or magnetic amplifier.
Am I correct or just plain wrong?
If I'm right, it would make it a little easier to make the switch work.
I have seen a patient which has 3 iron bars, theres a point at each end.
jim
Quote from: electricme on February 07, 2010, 09:57:48 PM
@jeanna,
A long time ago I remember you making a remark that your compus needle would fluctuate a little bit if it was placed close to one of your stubblefields, if you can make a sensitive contact spring, I think you will be well on the way to making this thing work.
Wow what a fantastic post about the T coil and the spark gap for it. wow wow double wow.
I had 2 things that were compass needles.
One a real compass that showed the directions of magnetism that had developed in the ns coil.
I was not able to get the same effects from a similar iron spike without the winding.
The other was a simple old fashioned galvanometer.
That was a 2 inch compass which had 60? turns around the outside all basically N-S.
It showed very clearly when there was an induction of volts caused by a current etc. an ammeter.
I used it for many stubblefield experiments. I will dig it out again.
It was while using this with a nongalvanic stubblefield, coil fed 1.2v by a battery, that I saw a spark reach out of the wire. Not every time but about 1/3 of the time.
This spark happened when I was reversing the wires from where they previously were touching.
I wonder if I have those videos I made too.
I used a battery running through to fill a cap then let go and ran a tiny dc motor with the cap..
It seemed to me that the cap unfilled and ran the tiny motor longer than it took to charge.
Not having enough hands, I was not able to be sure, so I never mentioned it.
With what I now know about induction coils, I think I might be able to pulse the motor or something more interesting than what I did before. The cap was a 1F computer memory cap.
Great ideas, Jim.
Thank you so much!
jeanna
I made a little video today.
I used some old footage of a test I made 2 years ago.
I had made an inside only- non-galvanic coil in the style of the stubblefield coil, just to test it.
So, I made a dc circuit with just the copper wire going through its traces, and a resistor and a small cd motor.
I added a memory cap in parallel with the 2.45v battery and turned on the battery, then turned it off and watched it drain.
On the movie timeline later, I timed 13 seconds on and somewhere around 30-32 seconds off.
So the break even spot is after 13 seconds without the battery .
You can watch the motor continue for yourself if you want to.
I will upload it to youtube now, and return with the address.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmpbHR6oNI4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmpbHR6oNI4)
jeanna
edit
I do realize that the cd motor could be such a low draw that the discharge of the cap is very small, but it will not work on an eb, and I have another video where I touch the lead for a fraction of a second, then the cap runs the motor for 4-5 seconds, so, I believe there is some kind of inductance augmentation held there by the magnetic field of the adjacent iron wires that keeps it moving along.
j
Quote from: john_bedini on February 05, 2010, 03:21:56 PM
I just thought I would post more info on the two people that used this energy. I want to give as much information as I can post in Word Doc.
John B
this may be of some use to go with what you gave us. I do not remember where I found this PDF. but it can be shared here on this topic. this might be another tool we may need to find the good stuff.
Dennis
John, Thanks
Quote from: john_bedini on February 05, 2010, 03:21:56 PM
I just thought I would post more info on the two people that used this energy. I want to give as much information as I can post in Word Doc.
John B
I have only now been able to get back onto OU again, got a bit of catching up to do.
jim
Quote from: vincent68 on March 31, 2008, 10:40:53 PM
Hi All,
Has any one tried duplicating Snow's patent on how to stack cell's in the earth to up the voltage.
http://patimg1.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid=00155209&homeurl=http%3A%2F%2Fpatft.uspto.gov%2Fnetacgi%2Fnph-Parser%3FSect1%3DPTO1%2526Sect2%3DHITOFF%2526d%3DPALL%2526p%3D1%2526u%3D%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25252Fsrchnum.htm%2526r%3D1%2526f%3DG%2526l%3D50%2526s1%3D0155209.PN.%2526OS%3DPN%2F0155209%2526RS%3DPN%2F0155209&PageNum=&Rtype=&SectionNum=&idkey=NONE&Input=View+first+page
Thanks Vince :)
The link you gave was to the Patent Office database, which often doesn't work on computers, unless one has the software plugins to download data.
Here's the http://www.pat2pdf.org entry:
http://www.pat2pdf.org/patents/pat155209.pdf
Here it is for http://www.google.com/advanced_patent_search
http://www.google.com/patents?id=XjcuAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q=&f=false
--Lee
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCKE9zBBMIw&fmt=18
@Jeanna
I took a look at your "new" tiny video.
The motor runs for 29 seconds after the battery is disconnected ;D
I think you will find if you leave the battery in circuit for 1 minute, then remove or disconnect it, the motor will run longer again, but it will fail after it has used what amount of power that was put in the cap.
I tried to leave a message on youtube, but between not having cookies enabled and a keyboard that had flat battories, I couldnt do it.
Hmmm now here is a great project for a JTpowered keyboard :D
Well done Jeanna
jim
Here is an enhanced photo of NS coils. These are part of the papers Jim was able to get from the University of KY on Stubblefield. Nice Job Jim.
Here is another one showing one of his set-ups: (Actually, this looks like he invented the first car phone here?)
Bill
I forgot those coils were there in that bunch of photos.
Thanks to both Bill and Jim for this.
@Jim,
I have been pondering this again with my more recently gained experience with coils.
I posted this on yourube today.
I am thinking that the iron wire is being selfinduced as the adjacent copper wire normally is, but because it is iron it is able to hold that induced magnetic influence and slowly release it...
Well, slowly compared to copper.
Now, as it slowly releases its induced magnetism it converts to electricity in the copper wire which re-induces the iron wire and...
All this time the cap may be refilling and re-emptying.
It is clear that the time without the battery is more than 2 times the time touching the battery, as you said.
I see from my files, I did another one later and touched the battery for one pulse length.
This time the motor ran for 4-5 seconds. One pulse gave proportionately more than the more extended time or 13 seconds did.
I had no idea what this meant 2 years ago, but I am beginning to appreciate the stunning brilliance of this design... again.
I am wondering why john bedini didn't make a bedini motor with the coil like this instead of all copper.
John?
Maybe it is just the different focus at the time to use the NS coil for propagation?
I see another coil coming on! and this time #14 will be made with a removable core, one layer of wet silk wrapping and the rest magwire next to iron/zinc wire. Topped off with a very long secondary.
I will also allow for a connection that gary suggests that the secondary connects to the copper primary the way an ig coil does.
And, for the core, I will use welding rods with one long uncut one in the center so it can go into the ground.
I got my 1k pot yesterday along with 2 10,000maH D cell NiMH batteries. ooo fun. I need to make my skate wheel ssg today and tomorrow...
jeanna
Thanks Jeanna.
Here is one of NS in Philly talking on his phone.
Bill
NS in the Indiana newspaper:
Bill
NS assignment before patent. If you download this you can zoom in on it in your picture viewer:
Bill
NS Wireless Telephony:
Bill
All,
Didn't Stubblefield's company brochure "define the manner in which his earth battery was to be activated"? Is there a way to find/see/read that company brochure?
Thanks,
%Heath
Quote from: jeanna on February 09, 2010, 02:52:50 PM
I will also allow for a connection that gary suggests that the secondary connects to the copper primary the way an ig coil does.
jeanna
I didn't realise Gary suggested that. Where was that?
Every time I look at those Stubblefield farm photos with all the people standing around, I can't help but wonder about those people. How many of them actually owned one of those coils (or more) and what happened to those coils? Up in some attic, or in some barn, or buried on someone's farm, unknowingly? An earth battery buried in the ground, just waiting for someone to find it and utilize it. I wonder how many of those people told their grandchildren about the coils and whether the grandkids ever thought about them, or knew where they were. Or maybe there are papers about the coils, covered with dust in someone's attic, barn, trunk, etc. Or perhaps Stubblefield met someone from another state and gave that person a coil. You never know. Those things DO happen. If we could get to the right people maybe we could find some lost precious information that the government has yet to discover and destroyed. If you, dear reader, are ONE of those people, PLEASE let us know...and PLEASE bring forth the coil. Thanks
Quote from: 77eagles on February 09, 2010, 04:27:29 PM
All,
Didn't Stubblefield's company brochure "define the manner in which his earth battery was to be activated"? Is there a way to find/see/read that company brochure?
Thanks,
%Heath
I wish!
It was not as galvanic as the patent, but not specific either.
We have posted that brochure a couple of times. I think I dug it out when protonmom first arrived on the scene, so if you go to her first posts (her profile page) look at the date for her first post, then scroll for it from there.
It is worth reading that brochure.
jeanna
Quote from: john_bedini on February 05, 2010, 03:21:56 PM
I just thought I would post more info on the two people that used this energy. I want to give as much information as I can post in Word Doc.
John B
Thank you for the file it was good a good read.
It would read far easier if the pages were in order of succession. A little touch of A.D.D. was the only way it was possible to read it and comprehend it the first time through.
N.S. 's experience are not unreasonable to expect. he like others who see things for their benefit to the human condition seldom take into account the economic impact to the established industries who would be adversely effected. These industries are funded by the venture capitalists who new inventors unwittingly go to for financial support. It would be even more astonishing if these financial institutions would be supportive in competitive technologies.
Quote from: jeanna on February 09, 2010, 02:52:50 PM
@Jim,
I am thinking that the iron wire is being selfinduced as the adjacent copper wire normally is, but because it is iron it is able to hold that induced magnetic influence and slowly release it...
Well, slowly compared to copper.
Now, as it slowly releases its induced magnetism it converts to electricity in the copper wire which re-induces the iron wire and...
All this time the cap may be refilling and re-emptying.
It is clear that the time without the battery is more than 2 times the time touching the battery, as you said.
I am wondering why john bedini didn't make a bedini motor with the coil like this instead of all copper.
jeanna
@Jeanna,
You may be right, there is one way to see if this theory is right, that is to connect a sensitive amp meter (analog) between the power sorce and the load.
If you see the needle swing one way, then it go the other way, then this would reflect the currents direction each time it changes.
I think the needle/pointer would spend most of its time pointing to the discharge side, very little on the charge side.
Now, the Bedini coil made with "insulated" iron wire, in theory you could remove the iron bolt and allow the iron wire to take it's place, it could also open up a new realm of Bedini experiments, I would like to hear what JB has to say on this one, but it would be very interresting indeed.
I could see one could use a bifilar or trifilar, or even a quadfilar wound coil
The first copper and Iron wire connected in the usual way, the other wires (copper) as output wires, a bit like marrying up the stubblefield inside a Bedini.
The outputs could be configured as a series connection (higher volt out) or as a paralleled output (lower volt Double current out) or as a center tap output Hi-0-low out.
Very interresting indeed.
jim
Quote from: protonmom on February 09, 2010, 07:01:40 PM
I didn't realise Gary suggested that. Where was that?
Protomom
It was just one of my theorys
It came to me after reading about one of Teslas motors
The armature of this motor had bars of iron cast into a copper cylinder
No wire at all
The book said that the motor worked because of the phase difference between the 2 metals
Now........if the phase difference is enough to drive a motor it might be part of what is going on in the Stubblfield coil
Now
If the 2 metals of the primary are in series
The circuit would be faster metal ( probably the iron )
then the slower metal
The slower metal primary would then be connected to the secondary
possably though an interrupter..
If the pulse in the secondary is large enough to start a new pulse in the primarys you have a closed system.
gary
Quote from: electricme on February 10, 2010, 06:01:34 PM
@Jeanna,
You may be right, there is one way to see if this theory is right, that is to connect a sensitive amp meter (analog) between the power sorce and the load.
If you see the needle swing one way, then it go the other way, then this would reflect the currents direction each time it changes.
I think the needle/pointer would spend most of its time pointing to the discharge side, very little on the charge side.
Now, the Bedini coil made with "insulated" iron wire, in theory you could remove the iron bolt and allow the iron wire to take it's place, it could also open up a new realm of Bedini experiments, I would like to hear what JB has to say on this one, but it would be very interresting indeed.
I could see one could use a bifilar or trifilar, or even a quadfilar wound coil
The first copper and Iron wire connected in the usual way, the other wires (copper) as output wires, a bit like marrying up the stubblefield inside a Bedini.
The outputs could be configured as a series connection (higher volt out) or as a paralleled output (lower volt Double current out) or as a center tap output Hi-0-low out.
Very interresting indeed.
jim
Jim
I do not think the phase could be seen with a meter
I think it would take a dual channel Oscope
WIth a channel on each leg it would be easy to see the phase difference
Just power a secondary with some kind of a signal.......maybe a JT....... and watch the primarys
gary
Quote
I am thinking that the iron wire is being selfinduced as the adjacent copper wire normally is, but because it is iron it is able to hold that induced magnetic influence and slowly release it...
Well, slowly compared to copper.
interesting theory
My theory is ...... the magnetic flux is attrracted to the iron wire in a similar way a magnet is attrracted to iron.......... so........the initial flux should induce a current in the iron first.
It may remain in the iron longer for the same reasonsl......but I am guessing it becomes electrical current once it contacts the iron.
gary
It looks to be an Leedskalnin thing , Iron like the heart pushes and pules , unlike copper (goes one way pules).
Lol , red and blue blood , iron and copper , humanity and Nwo , give and take ...
Mark
@ Resonanceman
Quote from: resonanceman on February 10, 2010, 08:39:44 PM
Jim
I do not think the phase could be seen with a meter
I think it would take a dual channel Oscope
WIth a channel on each leg it would be easy to see the phase difference
Just power a secondary with some kind of a signal.......maybe a JT....... and watch the primarys
gary
If I can see an output on my meter, (and I can) so it can be seen.
I have an "extra coil" would over my Bibini SG motor, this I can meassure with my DMM, Analog meter, Scope, it tingles my fingers (ouch) and glows a neon.
Actually I hadnt thought of using a Bedini to make 3 phase. Just making 2 or more outputs, all I was describing was a different way to connect the output coils, either in series, or in parallel.
If someone wants to make a 3 phase Bedini, shure let em go for it, no probs here.
I might try this when I get more time, wind a trifilar 200 turns coil, connect all wires at one end, this becomes the "star" or NS connection, this leaves me 3 seperate free wire ends, I could make a 6 diode bridge to combine all outputs in to 1 single output (more curent).
Or feed this to 3 MOTs, now thats making my mind spin a bit ha ha.
jim
Electricme:
Jim, Here is the oscilloscope and probes. Think you can figure it out?
@ Protonmom,
Yep figured it out. Step 1 print this out.
OK, as you are a "new chum" to operating a cro, the 1st thing to do is explain the most essential items you need to know right now.
Don't worry about all the other fangled knobs or switches, except those I mention below.
Power Switch -------- press it to turn it ON, press to turn it OFF.
It will take a little while before a "beam" appears cause the tube has to heat up, best thing to do is "fire up the cro" make a cuppa tea, by then it's warmed up.
Intensity Knob ------- makes the beam striking the back of the scope, Brighter or Dimmer (like a TV control)
Focus Knob ---------- makes a sharp thin line
Position Horozontal --- You can move the "beam" to the left or the right of the screen
Position Vertical------ You can move the "beam" Up or Down
wherever you "set" the Knobs, the "beam" will stay there.
OK, just 1 channel at a time, not 2 channels, too much to let sink in.
Input 1------This is called a BNC fitting, to attatch any of the probe leads you have there do this.
Grab the "black" probe lead, take off the twisty tie, and throw it away (just the twisty tie).
Grab the chrome plug end, look at it, OK, this fits over the Input 1 doova on the bottom left side.
Press the plug in, then gently twist it clockwise a smigin until it "locks" (you will feel it lock)
Head around to the power lead, some scopes have it inturnally conected, others have a seperate lead, grab the power plug, and plug it into the power socket and turn the wall switch on.
OK, go to the front of the machine, and give it a kick in the guts, Australian way of saying "turn it on"., press the Black Power Button.
(well its 1.03 in the morning here and I'm troppo).
Make your cuppa T.
OK by now there should be a pritty Green line or dot slowly moving from Left of screen to Right of screen.
Sit for a while and take a gander at it (gander means look at it) take your time, remember what it looks like.
Ok, time to take the plunge, GOOD, it's time to play scopes.
You need to get to know your machine, so have a "fiddle" with the Intensity Knob, make the beam bright and dim, turn the knob around a few times, it wont hurt it.
Next fiddle with the Position knobs, get the feel of them and see how using them you can make the beam do what YOU want it to do.
Now write down all the positions of all the switch setings, so you have a "benchmark" just in case you loose the "beam" so you can find it again.
Don't worry, every one looses "the beam" even the experts do, and I have lost it too.
A word of warning, the silly little beam is intoxicating, fasinating, magical, it will enlighten you and drive you to grrrrrrrr
For now that will doo cause I'm toooooo tired and silly for words.
Hooroo all who read this and the owner.
jim
Thanks Jim, I will get that part done and wait for you to awaken for more. Btw, I have calibrated the machine before...I just wasn't sure how to hook up the leads and how to use them. I await your awakening. Meanwhile I will take a gander at the dials again.
Edit: At least I think I calibrated it according to the "manual" but I don't think it is done right. My green markings don't ficker...they just sit there. I hooked up the black lead and tried some knobs but have not yet noticed a thing different.
Deleted so as to stay on topic
@All,
Has anyone got to the Stubblefield page where it is criptic?
You need a mirror to read and understand it, my question is, just what was Nathan doing and why.
jim
Hi guys when you're reffering to iron you mean steel or common iron. If common iron this does not rust in earth?
Thanks
@ Jim
All I see in his backwards message is the different ways he makes his f's and he also uses a "b" for a "d"...as in the word "and"
I think all he was really doing was showing his cleverness to others in that he thought writing backwards was "clever", and he was just saying that he is a deep thinker and a far seeing person. He can solve the problems by his measure of intelligence and his living up to it...while knowing that it takes money to get anything done in life. My opinion.
Who knows though...he uses a correct d in magnitude. Perhaps some coded message in this, I am not sure.
Garuji
I believe we are supposed to have a little rust for the initial galvanic action, but then some people have said that when those batteries were dug up they had not rusted at all. Must be in the way the coil is wound.
Earlier I said I would put those 13mb of pictures into the downloads section. For some reason, I cannot seem to get it to select more than one picture at a time and I am not willing to do this 51 times.
There will be an easier way that shows up.
I have them and jim has them, I think Bill does too??
later,
jeanna
Thanks Jeanna, it is no problem if you can't send them. At least you tried.
Jim,
Well, the more I look at that message, the more I agree with you. I love a good coded message, who doesn't? But you just might have something there. I am going to spend some time looking it over and will let you know if I find anything.
@gurugi
I have pondered over the question about the metal used by Stubblefield in the center of his earth cells, I simply don't know, so I ask myself, what would the metals be the best to absorb or react to a magnetic field, Iron or Pig Iron or Steel.
Iron is more brittle than steel, I am thinking of "long weights" as used in vertical windows, used as a counter weight.
Stubblefield used Iron wire, so it's carbon content would have been lery low, so the iron wire would not fracture when he wound his coils.
So far it's just more question without answers, one day we will find out.
@protonmom
It strikes me he went to a lot of trouble to write a note the wrong way round, but why? what were the reasons for doing this? was it to throw people off the scent? steer them in a different direction? or to steer them to a clue, or keep them tied up in knots.
What does "mapnitude" mean?
Look at the 3rd line from the bottom, 3rd word across, it looks like a tiny triangle, but is it a direction pointer arrow? if it is, it is pointing to the word iron.
Look at the end of the 2nd last line. the word Jason is seen, if read without a mirror, it spells nosaj, which makes no sence.
I will have another try late tonight to resend that 1st set to you.
jim
Jim, I see all the little markers (lots of them) but I dont see the name Jason anywhere. Where do you see this again? On the original or the mirror? I think there is a lot more to it than meets the eye, which I am currently working on.
I don't see "iron" either
Okay...see it now...You meant in the very bottom, right? It does look like iron I suppose. But I am going in a different direction. I think I see something else here.
The First L (Live) does not match second L (Life)
Deep is spelled deeq or deeg, seeing is spelled seeinp
Magnitude is spelled Maptitude
And is Anb ...all through the letter
Solution is spelled solusion
something does not look right with "lies"...is that an L or a C?
measure of....the of ...the f in of does not have same tail as first f's
Is that a g or a q in intelligence?
anb again
looks like an e where a d used to be in surroundings
anb again, Stubblefield.....Look at the f here.
But what most interests me is, I am seeing some numbers when I use a special program...also some different words written behind these words. Could be just the program I am using, so wont count it as anything yet. time will tell
I just saw a most wonderful video made of john bedini last year.
freenergyinfo posted it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aA8-0tctyw&feature=channel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aA8-0tctyw&feature=channel)
In it I think I learned what john was alluding to with the electroscope.
It is an effect he describes happening inside the battery itself.
This is really interesting.
John talks about the spikes a lot and has made a method of charging batteries with them.
Jim, I think you discovered the same sort of thing last night.
I am thinking a 1.2v joule thief can indeed charge a 12v battery or 12 of them easily because the spikes don't blow up the battery as amps do, but they cause a charge to appear on the plates that has the same or better effect as a full battery.
(If it is reversed, it can be confusing to an operator, but that is in there too.)
Last year I spent a lot of time testing the ways to use the spikes on multiple secondaries with series inductors. here John shows how to store more than is "possible" in a battery for later use.
Great video john!
5 stars.
jeanna
ps
@protonmom, I just sent those pics to you.
j
Jeanna
I just watched that vid since you posted it.
Think about this for a second. Look at the bridge. The bridge will accept input in either direction.
Is it not receiving input from the original motor driving battery when it pulses? Not just bemf from the coil? Could it be that the driving battery is sending its power to the other battery through direct pulses? Of course the original battery would have to be higher than the second battery, but that data is not shown, neither is the input current, that could possibly be different when the bridge is connected, but it is not shown just said.
Not to down play John here, but I have fooled my self this way at times.
Mags
Hi mag,
No He even goes into that.
There are 11 videos in a row, and you should watch them all.
It is very good.
thank you,
jeanna
Quote from: electricme on February 12, 2010, 07:37:15 PM
@protonmom
What does "mapnitude" mean?
Just saw it, had to laugh, it means Magnitude
jim
Jeanna
I will check out the rest of the vids.
Im not picking here. =] Ive just been through it before myself. I thought I was for some fascinating reason able to add more and more light bulbs to my output in parallel and they were all as bright as just 1. I was like Yeee Haw Baby. But I found my bridge was collecting from the battery while it was pulsing the coil and collecting bemf.
This has happened to me a few times in different configs and I find them pretty quick, but man do those experiences stick. I havnt seen the other vids yet, but the only thing I could think as to why it wouldnt take from the first battery is due to the transistor voltage drop? A good bit of my experience was with reeds and there is no drop.
But it has me thinking already before I see. Ah and plus the bridge drop. Maybe. hmmm. Ive just played with trying to feed back to the first battery quite a bit and the 2 ways I have found successful were to take the bemf to the primary of a transformer, which is a perfect isolator for phase and to lower the high voltage down to a lower voltage above the battery voltage and the current will be more also.
No. 2 way was drive a second and third pulse setup off of the first ones bemf, that has been rectified to a cap that drives the second pulse setup. Then the output of the second setup is back in phase with the first, as in the grounds and positive from the input of the first pulse circuit now can be connected to the output of the second pulse circuit without conflict. I have yt vids that show this.
But as for charging a second battery, when that second battery is low, that first battery is dumping some current into that bridge when the motor pulse happens. In my experience anyway. I need to watch them vids, I am always willing to learn something new. =]
mags
Edit No 3rd pulse circuit just 2. Im a loon sometimes. I did do 3 in a row and it works, but the out to in was out of phase again like 1 circuit. I thought of it and tried it thinking that the stages could run in sequence to give each recharge cap some input before it was drained, and I was so wrapped up in the seq thing, that I forgot about the phase, but I found it. lol So 4 in seq will work and with 2, the 3rd part of a 3 sequence would be an off time.
@Jeanna,
Quote from: jeanna on February 12, 2010, 08:40:21 PM
I just saw a most wonderful video made of john bedini last year.
freenergyinfo posted it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aA8-0tctyw&feature=channel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aA8-0tctyw&feature=channel)
In it I think I learned what john was alluding to with the electroscope.
It is an effect he describes happening inside the battery itself.
This is really interesting.
John talks about the spikes a lot and has made a method of charging batteries with them.
Jim, I think you discovered the same sort of thing last night.
I am thinking a 1.2v joule thief can indeed charge a 12v battery or 12 of them easily because the spikes don't blow up the battery as amps do, but they cause a charge to appear on the plates that has the same or better effect as a full battery.
(If it is reversed, it can be confusing to an operator, but that is in there too.)
Last year I spent a lot of time testing the ways to use the spikes on multiple secondaries with series inductors. here John shows how to store more than is "possible" in a battery for later use.
Great video john!
5 stars.
jeanna
I also will take a look at this one, John Bedini knows exactly what he is about, it's school time again lol.
I can download, but not upload attatchments, real pain.
Activ8me help wont even answer their help line.
jim
Hi guys it's true that with spikes by a bedini motor will charge batteries. I did two small wind turbines with small motors like children do. I fed them to a JT/Bedini circuit. When wind blows they're putting around 80v :D into the bank. Amazing guys and it seems that they are charging my 12v batteries!!!.
Thanks
For reasons not worth going into I happened to have stumbled upon the subject of radon. It might have some influence on the earth battery. Others better suited can make the connection. As for health concerns caused by radon ,well sometimes you get the bull sometimes you get the horns. Not knowing dose not exclude you from the effects. It may how ever be in part or in full how NS got the output levels he did. On the down side if your in a area with high levels of the gas you might want to cover your arse with a little bit of reading.
Even the areas he demo'ed his equipment follow the mapped concentrations. Being energetic the EB may be drawing such a energy source to itself by reducing equalibrium of the gas in the ground after the chemical battery effect has worn off. Im not saying it is dangerous just noting there may be effects not yet considered.
Quoteupon the subject of radon
At one time I was a facility manager and had to take tests for every room in the building. Radon may have something to do with the NS coil. Anyone who has an NS coil or EB should buy a radon test kit and see what the ground levels are.
Quote from: guruji on February 13, 2010, 07:40:12 AM
Hi guys it's true that with spikes by a bedini motor will charge batteries. I did two small wind turbines with small motors like children do. I fed them to a JT/Bedini circuit. When wind blows they're putting around 80v :D into the bank. Amazing guys and it seems that they are charging my 12v batteries!!!.
Thanks
WOW That is the greatest news!!
Please be sure to tell us how long it takes to charge them.
There is a special protocol for discharging them before you recharge them, so please keep this going. I think John says after 20 times the batteries become very different.
thank you,
jeanna
Quote from: jeanna on February 12, 2010, 08:40:21 PM
I am thinking a 1.2v joule thief can indeed charge a 12v battery or 12 of them easily because the spikes don't blow up the battery as amps do, but they cause a charge to appear on the plates that has the same or better effect as a full battery.
(If it is reversed, it can be confusing to an operator, but that is in there too.)
j
INteresting concept
It should not be hard to prove.
If it works we should be able to use inverters to power stuff very soon
gary
Quote from: jeanna on February 13, 2010, 06:15:56 PM
A That is the greatest news!!
Please be sure to tell us how long it takes to charge them.
There is a special protocol for discharging them before you recharge them, so please keep this going. I think John says after 20 times the batteries become very different.
thank you,
jeanna
Hi Jeanna not exactly charge them to be honest but it seems that they are holding more charge then usual for sure. I have a small 13w solar panel with them too. But yes I did charge with bedini motor and the batteries become much different then usual. The charge get up instantly after some course treatment of charging and resting.
Thanks.
Quote from: electricme on February 12, 2010, 07:37:15 PM
It strikes me he went to a lot of trouble to write a note the wrong way round, but why? what were the reasons for doing this? was it to throw people off the scent? steer them in a different direction? or to steer them to a clue, or keep them tied up in knots.
What does "mapnitude" mean?
Look at the 3rd line from the bottom, 3rd word across, it looks like a tiny triangle, but is it a direction pointer arrow? if it is, it is pointing to the word iron.
Look at the end of the 2nd last line. the word Jason is seen, if read without a mirror, it spells nosaj, which makes no sence.
I will have another try late tonight to resend that 1st set to you.
jim
Jim; Just to clarify what was written at the bottom of that cryptic message. It says the following:
"Author Of This Expression:
Now if you can't read backwards, hold this before a mirror and read the reflection.
Nathan B. Stubblefield"
So, when you say that Jason spelled backwards is nosaj....that has no relevance at all. There is NO Jason. There is no nosaj. The word in question is "read" written in a flair.
I was just told, recently, that someone thought it looked like a twelve year old kid wrote that message. I suppose it is possible. It is also possible that Stubblefield wrote it and left a lot of clues. I was thinking about how shorthand was in common use back then, and coded messages were also common. I am not sure if there are any shorthand notations in the message, or not. I tend to agree with you that it IS a coded message though...of some sort. And if a 12 year old kid really did write it, he has fooled a lot of people. I am still going to keep looking at it.
@Protonmom,
You could be right there, whoever wrote the bottom part was generous with flowing his letters, I have taken a 2nd and a 3rd look at this mirror writing.
The word is actually "you" the u looks like a w, never mind.
But I keep asking myself, why would anyone go to the trouble of mirror writing a message in the first place.
The writing is definatly done by two seperate persons, no doubt about this.
jim
QuoteBut I keep asking myself, why would anyone go to the trouble of mirror writing a message in the first place.
Fwiw! Reflections.
Turn on a fan and place it near glass and look at the reflection.
Thought Id throw that in there.
Quote from: protonmom on February 14, 2010, 03:42:54 PM
"Author Of This Expression:
Now if you can't read backwards, hold this before a mirror and read the reflection.
Nathan B. Stubblefield"
You are right
This means that someone has reversed the image already
I opened it in MS paint and hit flip horizontal
It was easy to read then
I do not think that this is all that important
Anyone remember how much education Stubblfield had?
I am guessing not much.
I would say that Stubblfield probably wrote that out to show people he was not as dumb as they thought he was.
I am guessing he had dislexia and that limited his education
People with dislexia sometimes transpose numbers or write letters backwards ......for many dislexics reading backwards is as easy as reading the normal way.
Gary
Edit
The way I imagine this writing came about
Someone was bothering Stubblfield with claims like " you can't even write correctly."
Stubblfield then writes out the top part of the page..........backwards and asks the person to read it........of course they can't
So then Stubblefield scrawls the part at the bottom so they can figure it out...........and walks away.
Gary:
I find your explanation of this note very plausible. It very well might have happened just like that.
Of course, we will probably never know for sure but, that is as good an explanation as any. I agree about the dyslexia part as well.
Bill
of course he was southern and we do like to joke around..
even i like to play with peoples mind abit..
its just the way we r rised..
wouldn't you say
bill
haha
robbie
oh edit .. i got my own thinking as to how this secondary works just like john does.. it may be a trigger coil with a magnetic contact to the non used battery start of the input on the battery itself..
that would indeed increase the output.. if the magnetic flux could pull the contacts too..
but then it would be ac .. maybe
robbie
I have found that you can order perfect wire for building NS coils from here. http://wires.co.uk/acatalog/dcc_wire.html
Now as soon as my soft iron core arrives I can get started building my replication.
Quote from: lasersaber on February 16, 2010, 02:42:04 PM
I have found that you can order perfect wire for building NS coils from here. http://wires.co.uk/acatalog/dcc_wire.html (http://wires.co.uk/acatalog/dcc_wire.html)
Now as soon as my soft iron core arrives I can get started building my replication.
Lasersaber:
I had been to that site a while back but I don't see any spec on the wire such as other possible insulation like lacquer, teflon, etc like the other wire suppliers have. Is there someone you spoke with there or another area on their site that gives a full description of the specs?
Thanks,
Bil
I e-mailed and called them multiple times before I ordered. I wanted to make sure that I knew what I was getting. I received my order today and this wire is the real thing. I even tested it to make sure it was bare wire with my multimeter.
It would probably be wise for anybody interested in ordering to contact them like I did. That way if they change the way this wire is made or something you will know it before you spend money on shipping.
Quote from: lasersaber on February 16, 2010, 02:42:04 PM
I have found that you can order perfect wire for building NS coils from here. http://wires.co.uk/acatalog/dcc_wire.html
Now as soon as my soft iron core arrives I can get started building my replication.
Is the wire you ordered single strand, like what you would get in Romex? How wide is the cotton covering on the wire? Can you post a picture of a piece of the covered wire when it comes in, so we can compare it to ours? The photo online does not show just how large the wire is, nor how wide the cotton is. Thanks
Quote from: lasersaber on February 16, 2010, 03:12:18 PM
I e-mailed and called them multiple times before I ordered. I wanted to make sure that I knew what I was getting. I received my order today and this wire is the real thing. I even tested it to make sure it was bare wire with my multimeter.
wow
That is really great news!
I too will appreciate a pic. The braid looks very fat, although without some item in the photo for comparison it is hard to say.
Great hunting well done!
jeanna
Quote from: lasersaber on February 16, 2010, 03:12:18 PM
I e-mailed and called them multiple times before I ordered. I wanted to make sure that I knew what I was getting. I received my order today and this wire is the real thing. I even tested it to make sure it was bare wire with my multimeter.
Excellent!! This is really good news!
I also like your suggestion to call prior to ordering just in case the process changes but man, it will be so much easier to wind a large coil with that wire ready to go.
Thanks for sharing this source with everyone.
I look forward to seeing your experiments with it.
Bill
Here's a picture.
Looks like solid copper wire with cotton insulation...man that is fantastic!!!!!!
Also, thanks for testing it with your meter for any coating on the wire.
This looks exactly what Mr. Stubblefield had back then folks. I want to make one the diameter of a 5-gallon bucket.
Lasersaber, thanks again man, this really helped.
Bill
Well lasersaber, you get the big prize as far as I am concerned.
When I get back from winter camping I will buy some.
How long did it take? Not long is my guess.
thank you,
jeanna
P.S.
@Bill,
;D ;D
A 5 gallon bucket!
==========
EDIT,
I do not see which one you decided to get.
It is sold by weight.
Would you mind saving me some research time and tell me what item number you ordered?
thank you!!
jeanna
Quote from: resonanceman on February 15, 2010, 11:02:41 PM
You are right
This means that someone has reversed the image already
I opened it in MS paint and hit flip horizontal
It was easy to read then
I do not think that this is all that important
Anyone remember how much education Stubblfield had?
I am guessing not much.
I agree, and do not think it is important either, however, I do want to clear the education part up right away.
He was well educated.
His father was an attorney, and he taught a school as well.
Take the style of writing seen in his patents as an example.
He wrote in complex sentences and in a manner in which modern people are not capable.
He also taught calligraphy and was proud of it.
QuotePeople with dislexia sometimes transpose numbers or write letters backwards ......for many dislexics reading backwards is as easy as reading the normal way.
Exactly.
I did not need to have my computer reverse it.
My only problem was the quality and fuzziness.
====
QuoteSomeone was bothering Stubblfield with claims like " you can't even write correctly."
Stubblfield then writes out the top part of the page..........backwards and asks the person to read it........of course they can't
So then Stubblefield scrawls the part at the bottom so they can figure it out...........and walks away.
Good visual!
jeanna
@all
I got a feeling that the battery coil and secondary are wound in opposite direction.
Mark
Thanks for the picture of the wire. Now, is that cotton or some kind of blend? Almost looks silky, doesn't it? How much did you buy and how much did it cost you in total if you don't mind my being nosy. Just want to know whether or not I can afford it. How much would you need for a large coil such as the one Stubblefield has laying on the ground in front of his box of batteries in this photo? See the white one in left front? (in front of the box) That is about the size of my last coil...maybe a little smaller.
It might be fun to make a five gallon huge coil, but I am thinking it might be better to make several smaller ones and hook them together. More convenient, AND wouldn't the smaller ones be subject to a greater amount of earth currents than one huge coil?
I will be very happy to have one that works well.
Later on I can make 2 or a bigger one, but that is the way I am.
With the cotton already there, it will be possible to count the turns.
and, that means the secondary can be longer than the primary! ;D .
This is really pretty exciting.
What I like about that close up is how close to the wire the cotton is.
It looks a little shiny but it is probably cotton.
Once it is mercerized cotton becomes shiny.
Before that there is a wax on it that makes it look dull, but I think this is on the crafts market and I bet the choice was made to make it shiny.
Now, that is a good thing.
It looks less absorbent, but it is actually more. (unless treated with acrylics and formaldehydes etc.)
ooo this is so cool
thank you,
jeanna
@ Lasersaber,
That is a very good find, locating the place that sells cotton covered wire, how much did this drum cost you if this isn't a rude question? ;D
And, what is its thickness? How many feet do you get on a roll?
Sorry for all the questions.
One things for sure, cotton shrinks when it gets wet, so coils might get a little sloppy after a while.
When you wind every layer, don't forget to cover the previous layer of winds with an insulator, cut the top section off a thin cotton sock would do the job, or a small pair of nylon stockings.
The first person who makes a "running" stubblefield coil is going to be king of the stubblefield mountain.
@Bill,
That package of diodes and geranimum transistors I sent to you last week, have you received it yet?
jim
The guys that sell the wire do not know how many feet are on the rolls. This video showing my coil might give you an idea on how much wire you may need:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHPKSdRRPCQ
The coil in the video used two rolls of "125g 0.9mm Double Cotton £8.20"
After making the video I let the motor run all night. It was running a lot faster this morning after I got up than it was last night. I put a quick magnet wire secondary winding on it this morning and verified that it produces current on the secondary when the main coil is switched on and off. I need to get more magnet wire before I can do a proper secondary winding.
Laser,
I really liked your video. It was clean, clear, no jumping around with the camera. You are obviously good at filming. Now, could you please show us more of how you wound the coil? Did you use Stubbs exact patent, or did you make any changes? Did you soak the coil in water only, or did you add anything? In the vid it looks as though you were using only the 5 and 6 to produce elec. Is that correct? You said you also hooked up the sec and got power as long as you used the make and break on it. Was that sec power as good as the primary? Did it last as long? Could you please make a diagram showing how many turns, and layers etc were used on the coil? Also.... did you use a special iron wire? What was it and how does it differ from fence wire? Sorry for all the questions, but you seem to be the one who has the answers so I come to you for help. Help! Thanks! :)
Here is a video that shows a guy using a make and break circuit like we talked about a few times
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSTNVTEqwqg&feature=youtube_gdata
gary
@gary
Nice find that would work , and if reminded me of a switch i found in a dollar store item , i will post soon.
This thing is looking better and better everyday.
Mark
@ Lasersabre,
Congradulations on getting that small electric motor to tun off your stubblefield coil.
Wonderful achievement. :D
I have seen your Youtube video.
I would like you to do an experiment for me please.
lower the coil to the table, while the motor is running, then slowly bring a compas towards any of the iron bolt's ends.
What I want to know, is the compas needle vibrating?
Is one end favouring North and the other end south?
Hold a magnet in your hand, then slowly bring it towards the iron bolt, don't let it touch the bolt, I want to know if you can "feel" any reaction besides attraction or repulsion of the magnet from a distance.
Could you please post a drawing showing what wire from the coil, (inner or outer turns) which you connected to the motor.
Thanks.
Well done Lasersabre. ;D
jim
Lasersaber,
In your picture above...MotorTest1.jpg....it looks like you have some kind of electrical tape as a covering over the entire coil. Is that what it is? And if there is no secondary, then why is there a covering over the coil? Wasn't the Stubb coil supposed to be UNcovered so as to be able to absorb moisture from the earth? Also, on that cotton covered wire...in the photo on ebay it looks like the cotton is flat and wider than the wire. Is that correct? How does that work with the iron wire, assuming the iron wire is bare? Is it hard to align the two wires so that they both lay flat on the coil so that you have even and smooth windings? If I buy this cotton covered COPPER wire, do I also need to buy cotton covered IRON wire to make all the layers even? Sorry for all the questions, but I would like to get started soon, so need all the info I can get. Thanks again.
Hi Lasersaber very impressive; very good and intelligently build. Can you please tell us exactly how did you build that by a diagram?.
Thanks
All,
I will give complete build instructions soon. I will probably do a video on building it with sources for all the parts. Right now I do not have the time. I going to be out of the country for a few weeks so all this will have to wait. I will try to answer all your questions when I get back.
Hurry back Lasersaber, and be careful! You carry important information with you! We will all be awaiting your return. Hurry!!!!!!
I was wondering about how to tell if a metal rod is soft or hard iron. I have read that if it attracts metal objects while magnetized, but then immediately lets loose when not magnetized then it is soft metal. So I checked all my bolts which remain, with which I had planned to make more coils. Wouldn't you know it... only one, well, maybe two, of the many bolts left are the right ones. Most of them barely held the metal while I had the magnet on them. But there is one, especially, that held tight and then immediately released when the magnet was taken away. So that is the one I will go with next. I wish I had thought of testing the bolts a long time ago. I know I am getting volts with the coils that are already built, but I think that if I had only had the proper bolt to begin with, I would be getting GREAT results with possible amps. My hardware store has plenty of the good bolts, so I guess that is where I will be headed this week. So all newbeez beware. Get the proper bolt! I guess I should have done the same with the wire too. I have been using fence wire. It seems to work, but once again, if I had the good SOFT wire, I will bet I would be getting some pretty good results! However, with my coils that are already made, I seem to be getting the same as everyone else. (With the exception of Lasersaber)
Anyone have any good ideas on what iron wire to use?
Another thing,
I forget who it was, but someone mentioned using annealed iron. How do you make your own annealed iron? Do you put it in a bon-fire and cook the heck out of it, and let it cool off? Will that do the trick? How does annealing make it soft iron? And what are the properties of soft iron that make it important in the coils? does annealing make the iron more magnetic?
Lots of questions. Anyone have the answers? Thanks in advance.
I'm not sure annealing iron would make it into soft iron or not pmom, but annealing requires heating metal red hot and an immediate immersion in cold water.
Regards...
Quote from: Cap-Z-ro on February 24, 2010, 10:55:45 AM
I'm not sure annealing iron would make it into soft iron or not pmom, but annealing requires heating metal red hot and an immediate immersion in cold water.
Regards...
actually, with annealing you heat the metal to just above or just below its austenizing temperature (depending on what kind of annealing you are doing), then you let it furnace cool or air cool (again depending on what kind of annealing you are doing), but you do not immerse it in cold water (quenching is a hardening process and if you quench too fast you end up with amorphous metal... that's how they make metglas), you always cool slowly. imho you would want to use a short cycle anneal for the iron... heat, cool and heat again.
Wilby:
That's exactly correct about making Metglas. We used be be the only manufacturer of the zirconium oxide nozzles for Allied's Metglass production. I have seen their original machine many times. Basically it was a very large water cooled wheel, about 10 feet in diameter, and the molten metal was poured through our precision machined ceramic nozzles of various slots sizes (depending on what they were running that day) and the molten metal instantly crystallized upon contact with the spinning wheel and made a ribbon of Metglas with very unique properties. it was this manufacturing breakthrough that allowed our car starters and alternators to be reduced in size and weight by about half.
We machined the slots using ultrasonic impact grinding and the slots were about .010 + or - .0002" X 4" long. We also made all of their other sizes as well.
Brings back memories.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 24, 2010, 12:57:56 PM
Wilby:
That's exactly correct about making Metglas. We used be be the only manufacturer of the zirconium oxide nozzles for Allied's Metglass production. I have seen their original machine many times. Basically it was a very large water cooled wheel, about 10 feet in diameter, and the molten metal was poured through our precision machined ceramic nozzles of various slots sizes (depending on what they were running that day) and the molten metal instantly crystallized upon contact with the spinning wheel and made a ribbon of Metglas with very unique properties. it was this manufacturing breakthrough that allowed our car starters and alternators to be reduced in size and weight by about half.
We machined the slots using ultrasonic impact grinding and the slots were about .010 + or - .0002" X 4" long. We also made all of their other sizes as well.
Brings back memories.
Bill
for fun! how malleable was the metglas when it came off the wheel?
It was fairly brittle which probably explains the large diameter of the wheel as the crystallized ribbon conformed to the circumference of the wheel before spinning off into a receiving bin.
I mean, you could bend it but it was not like al foil or anything.
Bill
QuoteAnd what are the properties of soft iron that make it important in the coils?
Hard Iron will retain more of a magnetic field after the magnetic field collapses than soft iron. When using these types of coils you want the maximum magnetic field collapse which produces more power.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_core
Heres a link for soft iron cores in a package of ten. Get enough replicators and you can divy the cost as well as having the same core.
http://sargentwelch.com/soft-iron-rod/p/IG0038157/
Thanks everyone. I wish I had asked that question last year. It might have saved me some time and money.
@IotaYodi: I looked at the website for the soft iron bars. They sure look good, but a little pricey for me at this time.
(pkg of 10 ...15 cm long for $37.55 or pkg 10 ...9.5 cm long for $41.09)
my bolts are 20 cm long at around $1.00 each so 10/Approx $10.00. I guess I will have to go with these as much as I would love to try the good ones. Just cannot justify the expense right now.
I will look online for sources for soft iron wire, though. Maybe that wont be so expensive. Anything has to be better than fence wire, I guess. I do have a bunch of wire clothes hangers, but I really wanted to use a bolt like in the patent. (I hear the clothes hangers are soft iron)
As soon as I get time I will upload some pictures of my new coils. I am hoping they will work better after being buried this spring.
QuoteHeres a link for soft iron cores in a package of ten. Get enough replicators and you can divy the cost as well as having the same core.
http://sargentwelch.com/soft-iron-rod/p/IG0038157/
Those are the very soft iron rods that I ordered. I am not very happy with them. They retain their magnetism after the magnetic field is turned off. I think I am going to try a ferrite rod. Maybe I will make a huge coil around this: http://www.stormwise.com/page26.htm I am open to suggestions for a good ferrite rod to use. I know very little about them.
Here is a design that I plan on building when I get back from my trip. Based on testing that I have already been doing I am pretty sure this motor is going to run good. It will also to some extent accomplish the " make and break" switching.
@Lasersaber,
This is really good what you are doing, finding these places to shop for materials, but, can I ask if you might post the details on how you made your stubblefield coil you posted above and on the one you posted on You Tube.
I am asking, because I don't want to go to all the effort and make it the wrong way.
Did you make the turns on the former by turning the former and feeding while guideing the wire.
Did you use a battery powered drill to turn the former?
I would think the only way to get a clean smooth level wire finish, one would need to secure the drill in a bench vice, secure the former by it's free threaded bolt end in a chuck, then set the drill speed and feed the 2 wires as the former revolves.
How many turns did you put on the coil?
I have some thick iron wire which is plastic coated, I have thinner garden wire plastic coated, and I have bare iron wire.
Am I headed in the right direction?
@Protonmom,
your idea to test the bolt for residual magnetism is a very good one, how could a stubblefield coil work if the iron/steel bolt became magnetised?
It has to be able to "drop" the magnetic field quickly, I wonder if long thin transformer steel would do the trick?
It would have a influence on the rest of the iron bifilar wire on the coil.
jim
To anyone, does anyone know where I can get a 3.25 inch ferrite core toroid, same type used in jeanna's light ?????
In Australia or USA ?
@electricme
I would not use any plastic covered wire. The Iron wire should be the same size as copper wire plus it's cotton covering. I wound my coil by hand. I am not sure how well a drill would work. I enjoy winding my coils by hand.
I do plan on making complete instructions when I get back from my trip. I may post quick comments here while away if it seems somebody is about to buy something that does not work very well. I had high hopes for those soft iron cores. Now I have ten junk cores. I will now have to unwind my coils and make new ones with better cores in the future.
All I did on this project was look at the patent and follow it exactly. I do believe there may be one mistake in the patent drawings. The drawings show five layers of coil windings and I always have to do six or eight layers to get the wires to exit back out at the top of the coil. Nathan points out that the number of layers importance is in increasing the batteries output power.
I have built two coils. One with iron wire and of with galvanized iron wire. One reason I want to wait to share more is that I want to see how my coils are performing when I get back in two weeks. I will leave the galvanized one running a motor the whole time. I will test it when I get back to see how it holds up under constant load. So far I like the galvanized wire one much better. But time will tell.
@freepow,
Quote from: freepow on February 25, 2010, 05:58:42 AM
To anyone, does anyone know where I can get a 3.25 inch ferrite core toroid, same type used in jeanna's light ?????
In Australia or USA ?
Hello freepow, long time no see.
As far as I know, the easiest place to get the one you are after in the USA through Gadget of Gadgetmoll.
When emailing him, mention myself to him, and you are on the joule thief forum ;)
click here to try gadgetmall http://www.sunpowerwindpower.com/documents/49.html
Jeanna, Bill and the others on the Joule Thief forum would be more up to date on this item than myself.
There was a company a few months back offering free toroids, I think Bill has those details.
Nice to see you posting Wayne.
jim
Not sure if it was specified how tight the coil must be wound on the core...and am wondering if coils can be made so that the cores can be inter-changable, for the purpose of experimental expediency.
Regards...
@lasersaber,
Quote from: lasersaber on February 25, 2010, 06:58:39 AM
@electricme
I would not use any plastic covered wire. The Iron wire should be the same size as copper wire plus it's cotton covering. I wound my coil by hand. I am not sure how well a drill would work. I enjoy winding my coils by hand.
I do plan on making complete instructions when I get back from my trip. I may post quick comments here while away if it seems somebody is about to buy something that does not work very well. I had high hopes for those soft iron cores. Now I have ten junk cores. I will now have to unwind my coils and make new ones with better cores in the future.
All I did on this project was look at the patent and follow it exactly. I do believe there may be one mistake in the patent drawings. The drawings show five layers of coil windings and I always have to do six or eight layers to get the wires to exit back out at the top of the coil. Nathan points out that the number of layers importance is in increasing the batteries output power.
I have built two coils. One with iron wire and of with galvanized iron wire. One reason I want to wait to share more is that I want to see how my coils are performing when I get back in two weeks. I will leave the galvanized one running a motor the whole time. I will test it when I get back to see how it holds up under constant load. So far I like the galvanized wire one much better. But time will tell.
Sorry to hear about your 10 junk cores, its no fun, and I got your above "loud and clear" ;D
I will go and re-read the patient again.
Thankyou for taking the time to answer the queries, and I'll let you go and enjoy your hols ;).
jim
LaserSaber,
That looks like a very interesting gizmo you are making for your make and break. Hope it works well.
I have seen some other designs like that one, so it must be good. Please keep posting, even while you are on vacation if you can. I can't wait to see your plans.
Cap-Z-ro,
Stubblefield did say that the core could be removed for repair purposes, so why not for experimenting? It should be fine. It is just in the way you put the coil together. Make sure the hole for the bolt is large enough to remove the bolt with the insulating cover on it. If you only make the hole large enough to put the bolt through, then you cover the bolt with tape, etc., the bolt wont be able to go back through the hole. You would only need to make the holes just a tiny bit larger than usual. I suppose you would also have to make sure the first winding was not too terribly tight on the bolt.
Why couldn't you use a cardboard tube with the bolt inside? If the tube was not too thick, wouldn't that work? Put the bolt inside the cardboard tube, then wind the coil on the cardboard not the bolt. Leave just enough room inside the tube to be able to remove the bolt. Does that sound plausible? I would imagine the thin cardboard tube should not impede the properties of the coil. Anyone know for certain about that? Maybe you could make your own thin cardboard tube with some layers of paper not quite as thick as cardboard but thick enough to make a tube.
I think Jeanna used a straw on one of her coils, with the bolt inside, I am assuming.
QuoteThey retain their magnetism after the magnetic field is turned off.
You are going to have some retention with soft iron. You would need an opposing field or polarity to drop it back down to zero. A ferrite core may not have the field intensity like soft iron but may be doable.
I have been searching for ferrite rods for cores for some time now. I think I posted this somewhere a good time ago, but now, thanks to Lasersaber, we have a good source for the cotton wire, I will bring it up again. An alternative that is not very expensive and will allow for easy assembly/disassemble would be the 1" OD 5/$1 toroids from Goldmine.
I would not glue these in any way but, think about it, they could be stacked on a pvc or wood rod and bolted end to end to hold the stack of toroids together like a stack of pennies. The coil could then be wound around the stack and it will be used as a solid core.
Even though the permeability of the goldmine toroids is not really known, many of us have made some really god JT circuits using them and for a really good JT circuit you need high permeability so I would guess it is pretty good.
We have been able to get some very high frequencies out of our little JT circuits with some really good back EMF spikes so I am confident that this ferrite material will easily keep up with any make/break system used in the NS coil.
If I am not clear on my explanation, let me know and I will attempt to make yet another very crude drawing.
Bill
Quote from: lasersaber on February 25, 2010, 06:58:39 AM
... I had high hopes for those soft iron cores. Now I have ten junk cores. I will now have to unwind my coils and make new ones with better cores in the future. ...
Just an offhand tip?
If soft (annealed) cores don't work for this application, then the typical American construction rebar hadn't ought to work any better. The stuff is made out of soft cast iron, as far as I know. It's easy to come by, though.
--Lee
Got my bolts and ready to make some new coils. ;D
********************************
Here are two good reads. First has some good vids to watch. Both informative.
http://www.stmary.ws/highschool/physics/home/notes/electricity/magnetism/default.htm
St. Mary's Physics Online
http://info.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Workshop/advice/coils/force.html
The force produced by a magnetic field
*************************************
My ? of the day. ???
Anyone know what Rad E 4 means, or more importantly, what would it have meant to Stubblefield or those scientists of that day?
Protonmom:
RAD E 4 is ref. in a paper published in 1907 in the same publication that Einstein published his works in:
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0804/0804.3836v3.pdf (http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0804/0804.3836v3.pdf)
The above 2008 paper explains it way better than I ever could.
It deals with the laws of thermodynamics.
Google results where I located the paper:
"Rad. E. 4, 411 (1907). [4] F. Jüttner, Ann. der Physik, Vol. 339, Issue 5, 856 (1911). [5] D. Blanu˘sa, Glasnik Mat.DFiz. i Astr., Ser. II 2, 249 (1947). ..."
Bill
Thanks Bill,
That really didn't say much, huh? I wonder if Stubbs might have used it in reference to his home-made heater they found in his shack? I have no clue what that pdf was talking about. Einstein, Tesla and Stubblefield were way above MY head. Too bad they couldn't always talk in regular English so the rest of us could follow along.
I may have been closer than I thought.
1 rad = 100 ergs per gram 1 electron volt = 1.6E-12 ergs ... 1 Gauss = 1E-4 Tesla 1 Gauss = 1E-6 Volt-seconds per square centimeter. Length and Area ...
www.iem-inc.com/toolcnvr.html
No telling HOW Stubbs could have used the Rad E4.
Surely there is a scientist hidden away somewhere on this forum who would know exactly what Rad E4 was and how it was used back in the 1800's-1900's.
@ Cap-Z-ro,
Quote from: Cap-Z-ro on February 25, 2010, 07:12:55 AM
Not sure if it was specified how tight the coil must be wound on the core...and am wondering if coils can be made so that the cores can be interchangeable, for the purpose of experimental expediency.
Regards...
Looking at the patient, it seems that tidiness is a presquite to the stubblefield coil working correctly, if I'm right, I think the stubblefield Bifilar coils run at a lower voltage than at high voltage, it seems the bifilar function is to control the magnetic fields.
I read last night that stubblefield had a carbon resistance between the bifilar wires, so when the field collapsed, it still had some residual magnetism bouncing inside to restart the process after each cycle. Well it's a theory, one day we will know for sure.
The bifilar coils could be wound on a strong former, like a wooden dowel rod, covered by a rolled cardboard tube, perhaps it could be glued as the cardboard was rolled up, then when the stubblefield coil is made, the dowel rod is slid outwards, and several different metal rods could be tested to see how each performs.
jim
Quote from: protonmom on February 24, 2010, 09:38:52 AM
Another thing,
I forget who it was, but someone mentioned using annealed iron. How do you make your own annealed iron? Do you put it in a bon-fire and cook the heck out of it, and let it cool off? Will that do the trick? How does annealing make it soft iron? And what are the properties of soft iron that make it important in the coils? does annealing make the iron more magnetic?
Lots of questions. Anyone have the answers? Thanks in advance.
Soft iron will better because it will not remain magnetized , and are better at directing polarity N/S. Under magnetic stress it becomes a magnet .
In commercial electromagnet its the only stuff used .
Mark
Quote from: lasersaber on February 24, 2010, 10:27:12 PM
Those are the very soft iron rods that I ordered. I am not very happy with them. They retain their magnetism after the magnetic field is turned off. I think I am going to try a ferrite rod. Maybe I will make a huge coil around this: http://www.stormwise.com/page26.htm I am open to suggestions for a good ferrite rod to use. I know very little about them.
Here is a design that I plan on building when I get back from my trip. Based on testing that I have already been doing I am pretty sure this motor is going to run good. It will also to some extent accomplish the " make and break" switching.
Are you sure the rotor magnet are the right way (north vs south) also when the magnet of the rotor is close to the coil it is fair to assume the core is still magnetized , it may be a size issue or distance .
Also i don't see on the drawing the connection for the other ends of the coils .
Maybe you need a second reed switch to pulse it back and forth .
Anyhow great work!
Thanks pmom,
That is useful for trying more modern core materials, as someone suggested earlier.
Regards...
Greetings to everyone, new to the forum.
I have been doing a lot of research on Stubblefield as well as Tesla and others.
I also plan on building a Stubblefield device. My thoughts on it are these:
From what I have read it is believed that Stubblefield was forced to make changes to his wording in his patents to appease the patent office, so the terminology calls for electrolytic reaction which may be true so that it has this method as a primer. However, In reading the patent it seems clear that that is only a small part of the device. I estimate that the device once in the earth will become an electromagnet even without connecting the wires (5 & 6)(see NBS patent 600457 fig 4) due to the telluric current/ radiant energy within the earth. It should be noted that references were made to the fact of leaving the battery in the earth and it would build and build over time. As the telluric currents/radiant energy builds the soft iron core becomes magnetic exciting the coils of wire and making it an electromagnet creating the current that will be useable from wire 5 & 6 terminals. This alone is fantastic in itself, however I believe there is one thing that has perhaps been overlooked. If you examine the photographs of Stubblefield and his patent # 887357 he used this battery/induction coil in concert with a coil antenna. Usually with one as the transmitter and another setup with a receiver. However I would like to refer you to Nikola Tesla patent #685957 "The apparatus for the utilization of radiant energy". Note that with a wire antenna the signals pulled in will produce usable current. Stubblefield and Tesla knew each other as was seen in the photos. It is my hypothesis that the antenna is the means by which to truly "prime the pump". It was noticed that Stubblefield got more and more current build after doing this. I also think that it is important to have the secondary coil in place for obvious reasons. Hooking up the antenna coil to wires 5 & 6 utilizing the radiant energy going into the battery from the antenna we will therefore want the secondary coil to gather the resulting buildup of radiant energy to power a load.
I apologize if any of this has been already talked about as I am still reading over the 210 pages of this thread but wanted to get my thoughts out there.
Thank you.
-Wintermuteai1
http://i50.tinypic.com/e9uemx.jpg (http://i50.tinypic.com/e9uemx.jpg)
Wintermuteai1:
Welcome to our group. I can not argue with your assessment of the patent. I believe you may be correct. NS always said you need to "prime the pump", whatever that meant.
This came up again with the work of Tariel Kapanadze where he used a car battery to get the electrons flowing and then disconnected it. He is getting great output now from his experiments.
Again, welcome to the group.
Bill
Thank you Bill
I've watched your videos on youtube, great work!
also love the forum here. It is great to see so many people working toward common goals.
@wintermuteai1
I would also like to welcome you to the forum. :)
You obviously have studied up on the Stubblefield patient, and you are reading the posts, it's a hard thing to do, when theres so many, but theres a wealth of information in them.
@all,
I have been looking at the cutaway view of the Stubblefield coil wintermuteai1 has posted (which is a beauty).
I have just realised the secondary turns, is "offset" several degrees to the Bifilar turns.
Back on the Joule Thief thread, some of the people there made mobious toroids, the turns were offset on an angle.
I'm wondering if we have another mystery here as well?
I'm also having thoughts about the necessity of immersing the coil in water in the first place.
Listening to Lasersabers YouTube video, he mentions the coil was placed in water, but it began to function as it began to dry out, so could it be water shorts out the turns, and dry wires allows energy to flow?
I know one thing for sure, if a working stubblefield coil with a 240v secondary gets wet, there is going to be a heep of sparks in turnally if it gets wet.
jim
Quote from: electricme on February 27, 2010, 12:10:42 AM
I'm also having thoughts about the necessity of immersing the coil in water in the first place.
Listening to Lasersabers YouTube video, he mentions the coil was placed in water, but it began to function as it began to dry out, so could it be water shorts out the turns, and dry wires allows energy to flow?
jim
Jim, Stubblefield included a picture in the patent showing the coil immersed in a container of water. I don't think he would have said to immerse it if he didn't mean it.He used "water" 4 times in a row...
line 98...(1.) ... battery and electromagnet for use with water as electrolyte...
line 107 (2.) ... an electrical battery for use with water
line 112 (3.) ... an electrical battery for use wifh water...
line 118 (4.) ...an electrical battery for use with water...
so, I think the water is important.(at least if you follow the patent exactly) My opinion.
For what it is worth, my output on the 2 coils i had buried always went down when it rained and were much better as they dried out and the best in seemingly dry conditions. It may be that there is an optimum amount of moisture required? Too little not good and too much not good either?
Bill
Bill, they may possibly perform better in the wetter conditions when it is discovered exactly how to properly connect the wires...and to what.
And I suspect like someone else mentioned, that the coil is coupled with another component, where sizable current is produced.
Someone here will eventually trigger a though in someone else, and it will be figured out.
Time is the only issue I believe.
Regards...
It does seem to be that way, Bill, as you have shown with your coils. I don't know why Stubbs said to use the water, but do you recall how people have said the wires were not even corroded after being buried for so long? Perhaps it is some kind of intial treatment the coil needs and then it gets buried??? Perhaps he had to word the patent the way he did, just to throw off the officials. He also said something to the effect that anyone knowledgeable in the art would know what to do...and something also about it wouldn't hurt to make a few changes. Or, maybe the word WATER is a clue in itself. So, perhaps the water is not such a necessity as worded in the patent, after all. I have not buried mine yet, except that first one which was only in the ground a very short time. (it still gives some voltage by the way)
I just know that we will eventually discover all his little secrets and maybe a few more. If we only knew some of the families HE knew, maybe they could give us some insights.
Bill,
did you ever make it back down to the museum? Did you ever get a chance to look into the trunk? Did you take more photos?
Stephan,
Could you please name off the men in the logo at the top of the forum, where it says The Quest For Freedom? Thanks
Starting on left
1 ?
2. Leedskalnin?
3. ?
4. Tesla?
5. Johnson?
"This successful operation of the device required very specific ground placement. It would not work with equal effectiveness in all locations. A very precise placement of the device required a precise knowledge, which only dowsers have. Stubblefield shared this particular fact with only one person.
I spoke with an academician who had the extreme privilege of speaking with Mr. Stubblefield's son, Bernard Stubblefield. Bernard, by this time himself quite aged, told that his father's method in locating the "right spot" was deliberate and time consuming. His father referred to the device as a "receptive terminal" and not a battery. Despite the insistence of Patent Officers in calling the device a "battery", Stubblefield declared it to be an "energy receiver ... a receptive cell for intercepting electrical ground waves". Its conductive ability somehow absorbs and directs the enormous volumes of earth energy.
Whether the current derived from this cell is electricity, as we know it has been questioned. One indicator that it is not is found when considering his use of the energy in lighting lamps. With this energy Nathan Stubblefield operated a score of arc lamps at full brightness for twenty-four hours a day. There was a definite trigger by which this energy was stimulated and maintained."
Not your standard current from the looks of it.
"The induction coil, which bears his name is equipped with three coils which are wrapped around upon a heavy iron core. Bare iron wire and cotton covered copper wire are wrapped side by side, comprising a primary coil body. Each layer of this primary coil body is covered by a band of cotton insulation, bringing four wire leads to the coil terminus. In addition to this bimetallic winding, there is a third winding: the "secondary". This third coil is insulated from the primary bimetallic coil, serving as a trigger device. Presumably, a stimulating impulse shock was introduced into the tertiary or third coil, after which the upwelling electrical ground response brought forth powerful currents in both iron and copper coils.
The Stubblefield power receiver is wound like an induction coil and is an Electrostatic induction coil. It produces a steady direct current output. Electrical induction only occurs with electrical alternations, oscillations, and impulses. Which we know the earth is doing. Stubblefield may have discovered the auto-magnifying voltage effect of electrostatic induction in coils before Tesla, who later utilized the effect in his special electrostatic Transformers."
In my opinion unless the criteria of specific ground placement,tight coil winds,and proper triggering of the incoming waves or frequency is met you wont get much out of it. A minimum coil size may also be needed which I think J Bedini pointed out.
Much to ponder...thanks IY.
There must be some current device that could determine proper placement of the ground, that wasn't available back then.
Regards...
This was published in 1893 by an electrical engineer. Its not the NS coil but he references Mica as being helpful in induction. NS mentioned using A Mica covering. Folks may want to add this to their coils as it apparently helps in the induction process.
"The inside of ring A is coated with mica in order to increase the induction and also to allow higher potentials to be used".
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Alternate_Current_Electrostatic_Induction_Apparatus
@ protonmom.
Quote from: protonmom on March 01, 2010, 04:41:08 PM
Perhaps he had to word the patent the way he did, just to throw off the officials.
So, perhaps the water is not such a necessity as worded in the patent, after all.
I just know that we will eventually discover all his little secrets and maybe a few more.
Thats what I have been thinking about a long time, Stubs "new" energy generator was simply so far advanced at that time, that the patient officials simply "know" a battery "must" be immersed to operate correctly, they probably couldn't accept a battery could produce energy without acid, so they made him change his termonoligy to suit their own "definition" on how "they" thought his earth cell operated.
It would be a bit like this I suppose, what would you all say if I fronted up with a battery, fitered out with several plates in parallel, and it needed acid to make it work, then patienting it, the "officials" said, wheres the acid? and if I said it dosent need any, they would say, yeahhhhh righttttt go away.
I agree 100% to Protonmom's above bottom line quote.
Theres more than meets the eye.
jim
I really believe the 5 & 6 wires of the device, which if you read the patent states that connecting these two together will create an electromagnet. As I stated in my first post I also think that connecting the copper coil antenna will do much as Tesla described gathering the cosmic energy with the copper coil as the + and the nbs device as the ground - with the secondary wires being to the load. I have also been wondering if the bifilar winding is meant to be connected like the Tesla Coil for electro magnets as in Tesla's patent # 512340
@Pirate have you seen this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_UfrFljQfc&feature=related
Quote from: stprue on March 05, 2010, 04:33:44 PM
@Pirate have you seen this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_UfrFljQfc&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_UfrFljQfc&feature=related)
No, but I have seen similar attempts at this BUT this fellow is getting 114 volts from his device! This by far the best I have seen with this type of device. I left him a comment telling him he can probably run a JT circuit from that to do all sorts of things. if he dumped that into a supercap or b-cap, and watched that he did not over fill it, he would have real usable power there.
Thanks for posting the link. I will check out his other videos now as well.
I wonder what would happen if you hooked up that device to an EER in parallel? You can then get the amps (mA's) from the EER and the volts from the air? Maybe?
Bill
@all
Ed chose carefully the coral castle second site , right on the world grid .
This was known in the middle ages , knowledge long lost .
If there is anything to this battery beside galvanic and the heart beating effects of the secondary coil vs the coil core, then it has to do with the world grid.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/91705/David-Hatcher-Childress-Antigravity-and-the-World-Grid-1987
Mark
Protonmom wrote(3053):
Every time I look at those Stubblefield farm photos with all the people standing around, I can't help but wonder about those people. How many of them actually owned one of those coils (or more) and what happened to those coils? Up in some attic, or in some barn, or buried on someone's farm, unknowingly? An earth battery buried in the ground, just waiting for someone to find it and utilize it. I wonder how many of those people told their grandchildren about the coils and whether the grandkids ever thought about them, or knew where they were. Or maybe there are papers about the coils, covered with dust in someone's attic, barn, trunk, etc. Or perhaps Stubblefield met someone from another state and gave that person a coil. You never know. Those things DO happen. If we could get to the right people maybe we could find some lost precious information that the government has yet to discover and destroyed. If you, dear reader, are ONE of those people, PLEASE let us know...and PLEASE bring forth the coil. Thanks
I found this interesting article
http://energysuppression.com/
“Bob Aldrich (Reporter): Suppression of Vibrating
Energy Source used by Farmers mid-20th Century
From : BOB ALDRICH -- RECEIVED --
To : JERRY DECKER (SYSOP)
Hi Jerry
By Lamentations I mean lamenting on how difficult it's been to get free
energy made available to the people at large. How many people have tried to make
it possible over the years. Must have been thousands. Who has succeeded?
Say, did you ever hear of a device that farmers were using possibly fifty
years ago that worked on vibration? Apparently some very simple device that when
set to vibrating, would put out ample free energy. Chicken farmers and such were
building them and using them to power the ranch. Until some one or two farms
mysteriously blew up or burned to the ground, after some warnings. This was in
the Midwest to my recollection. The fellow who told me did mention specifics but
it was several years ago and he was very hard to pin down as he was always onto
the latest thing and didn't want to talk about things in the past much. Later,
Bob
(I may have obtained the following miscellaneous anecdotes from an old
version of Leroy Peaââ,¬â,,¢s REA RESEARCH web site)â€
If anybody was using a Stubblefield coil, I believe it would be easy for the
“Free energy police†to track them .
A Stubblefield coil in the ground would surely broadcast a frequency
which could be pinpointed by triangulation
Sarah:
First, welcome to our group here. We are happy to have you. The more minds working on this, the better.
That is a very interesting post you have made. I too have heard about farmer's powering their farms quite a while back, although I can't remember just what or where I have read these tales.
If you have read our topic here, you can see several references to Nathan Stubblefield lighting his farm and house as well as heating his house, and running the telephone company of Murray all from his earth batteries. I am not totally sure about this but since he lived in what was then a very rural part of the country in general, and Kentucky specifically, and considering the time of his experiments, I think there was no grid available there to him at that time.
If I am correct about this, I am not sure if it makes sense that a power company would be upset by someone making their own energy if they were not a customer at the time, although, an argument could be made that they did not want this generally known in other parts of the country. We do know that he traveled to the east coast and held demonstrations of his devices in several major cities. This might have been enough to get someone's attention.
It is well known of the "power wars" taking place at around that time. Edison was, of course, pushing his dc power and Westinghouse (and Tesla) was pushing ac power. As we all know ac eventually won out, but it was a bitter fight for some time. I have seen documentary films of Edison electrocuting large animals in demonstrations of how "dangerous" ac power was. He killed many horses and even an elephant during this time, as well as many dogs and cats. (It was very sad to see) When a convicted murderer was put to death using the electric chair for the first time, Edison said that the man had been "Westinghoused", because ac power was used for the chair.
I guess what I am trying to say here is that, it is possible that someone rounded up all of NS's devices to keep them from getting out into the general public knowledge. I am not saying this is what happened, but, given the other events of the time period, I suppose it is possible.
Again, welcome.
Bill
I'm fairly sure they rounded up all Nate's coils, Bill...but did they get the ones he surely must have made for others...I'm thinking there's still 1 or 3 to be had yet.
Regards...
I would like to throw a speculative thought into the works.
In the read from Reply #3156 it sounds like one of the primary windings if charged would suspend a magnetic field in the iron bar like a leedskinin magnetic holder U shape thingy. If the amount of current/voltage being suspended were nearly equal to what was present in the earthly and atmospheric surrounding could that become a tank circuit if that is the right word for it. A change in one would cause a reaction in the other in it's attempt to reach a equal state. One would draw from the surrounding to balance out what was knocking the other off kilter. The water in that region is a bit high in calcium so the first soaking might only serve as a loose layer of semiconductor material in the cotton insulation to add to the sympathetic reaction of change. So a high state suspended field in the ground might be itself try to cause the space it occupies to become equally opposed. Then with a slight bleed off of the primary the ground/earths state flows throw the secondary because it sees it as a void. Im not very good at explaining what is a mental picture I work best with machines not people.
In short charge and short the primary ,place in earth and wait a bit. Connect a load to the secondary and spark off a little bit of the magnetic induction in suspension in the primary but not all of it. See if you get a good reading from the secondary and for how long.
@Sarah2009
Hello Sarah, Thank you for that info on the chicken farmers. We have some chicken farms here. I think I will go talk to some of these old guys and see if they know anything about it. You are right about the government being able to detect a coil, but then they MUST know about all OUR coils. In the U.S. alone, there must be an awful lot of coils buried
and running as we speak. Some even supply power. (lucky ones) I am still guessing, though, that there is a genuine Stubblefield coil out there SOMEWHERE. The trick is to find it, before the gov't does.
sarah2009 said:
Quote
...If anybody was using a Stubblefield coil, I believe it would be easy for the
“Free energy police†to track them .
A Stubblefield coil in the ground would surely broadcast a frequency
which could be pinpointed by triangulation
@sarah2009 and all others,
It's not just Stubblefield coils:
Spark gaps in general emit a wide range of radio frequencies and harmonics that come out as static on radios. Think of a car radio before relaying spark plug static over the speaker as the gas pedal is pressed.
Eventually, a way was invented to eliminate this problem, but, whoever uses a spark gap for experiments can have their position triangulated by the authorities.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spark_gap
Moreover, some free energy ambient energy augmenting systems may contribute to the problem. A simple example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spark-gap_transmitter
--Lee
@all
Has anyone heard from LaserSaber yet? On Feb.25th he said he would be back in a couple weeks. I sure hope he comes back soon. We are all still waiting on his instructions.
@Jeanna,
did you order that cotton covered wire yet, and is it as promised? Could you tell me what the cost is in US dollars? I am about to order some if it is not terribly expensive.
@LaserSaber
I hope you are back. I am waiting for you to show us how to build the correct coil. How is it doing, by the way? Did you leave it running while you were on vacation? Have you tried running anything else with it?
Hi protonmom,
The cotton covered wire is on my list, but no I didn't order it yet.
jeanna
Thanks Jeanna. I have had my plate full lately, but now I think it is time to do some more ordering and winding of coils. Only have so many hours in one day, and it is hard to get everything done we wish to do. If I get my wire before you do I will let you know how iit goes.
Did anyone check to see if that company also has cotton covered iron wire? It would sure make it easier to wind if both wires were covered.
I hope Laser shows us his plans soon.
Hi All,
I am back. I have lot's of work I'm trying to catch up on. I have had the coil running a magnet motor make and break switch ever since I got back. It was still going this morning and shows no indication of stopping.
Here is a quick video to bring you up to speed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGV-yiQ2WOE
LaserSaber !!! You are Back !!!! Welcome!! Hope your trip was fun, but glad you are home now.
I can't wait to see the plans for the new LaserCoil. This is exciting! I only wish I had ordered my cotton covered cu while you were away.
I am so glad the coil is still running!!!
Laser:
Excellent job on the make/break and your coil. I'll bet your secondary will really put out some power. We, as a group, have discussed several ways to utilize a make/break device but you are the first here to build one, and it works great.
Very well done.
Bill
Hello LaserJaber,
your Stubblefield Coil experiments are one of the best contributions I saw on overunity-com. Thank you very much for the photos, videos and hints where to get the wire.
It helps very much to have precise specifications when trying to replicate an idea. And it saves a lot of effort and money when one can start with the right materials.
Please excuse me for nagging you with questions. I would like to know as much as possible before starting my own coil. Here a summery of what I gathered from your postings and what I would like to know in addition.
I am talking about the coil you show in the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGV-yiQ2WOE:
- copper wire: 125g 0.9mm Double Cotton Covered Copper Wire (http://wires.co.uk/acatalog/dcc_wire.html)?
- iron wire: 1kg 0.9mm Galvanised Iron Wire (http://wires.co.uk/acatalog/fe_galv.html)?
- which reed switch did you use?
- diameter of your wooden disks ?
- height of your coil ?
- You said to have used cotton between the layers of the winding? Was this some cotton cloth or a cotton string you wound on the coil?
- iron core material ? (I know you are looking for a Ferrite core; I am also looking for one and let you know once I found something; I am thinking about using stacked Ferrite beads http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrite_bead)
Greetings, Conrad
Hi guys when reading Stubblefield patent again I am understanding that he is saying to do a bifilar winding with copper and iron wire with copper wire in the end as secondary.
Are there others that understood it like me?
Thanks
Wow...
This cotton covered coil is one of the great misteries of Universe!
Any scientific explanation for the source of energy of this coil? Telluric currents, like in Earth batteries??
Keep on keeping on, lasersaber!
Quote from: Rapadura on March 19, 2010, 08:50:53 AM
Wow...
This cotton covered coil is one of the great misteries of Universe!
Any scientific explanation for the source of energy of this coil? Telluric currents, like in Earth batteries??
Keep on keeping on, lasersaber!
Yes, the Stubblefield device can be primed ("prime the pump" as NBS often said)in more than one way. Notice that in using water the effects only truly started to be noticed after it dryed out quite a bit. The electrolytic action of either dunking in water and letting it air dry, or placing it in the earth and letting the natural moisture of the ground as well as the currents of the earth process the device. (you can also connect the #5 & #6 wires to make the device function as an electromagnet) Now, it is of my opinion that once this is done either way the device then starts doing it's job as a zpe(zero point energy)converter. If the coil is done properly it will naturally gather radiant/zpe energy from the vacuum and convert to useable current. One could further this device by tuning it so as to increase the frequency of natural zpe all around us. This device is another that is similar to function as a zpe collector just as Moray's valve did so in conjunction with an antenna to "zero in"/Tune in to the correct frequency/frequencies.
(Not to derail but to add to this:)
I also had wanted to say to those doing the crystal batteries in the other thread that After much research into these subjects I believe that the crystal batteries are also like the moray valve and the NBS device in that they are zpe collector/converters. If one were to add tuning coils and the correct antenna you could increase your volts/amps many many times over. (just my thoughts)
What Stubblefield never told us in his patents: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcjxA7bYUp0
LS:
had to re-think what I was trying to say, but in the patent NBS says the connect 5 & 6 however do note(or correct me if I am wrong)that he is referring to Figure 4 which has the secondary(outside) coil.
http://i44.tinypic.com/16h9078.jpg (http://i44.tinypic.com/16h9078.jpg)
Quote"It will therefore be seen that the construction of the battery illustrated in Fig. 4 is practically a self-generating induction-coil, and it can be used for every purpose that a coil of this character is used, for as long as the coil-body 4 is wet or damp with moisture electric currents will be produced in the manner described. It will also be obvious that by reason of the magnetic inductive properties of the coil-body 4 the core-piece 1 will necessarily be magnetized while a current is going through the body 4, so that the battery may be used as a self-generating electromagnet, if so desired, it being observed that to secure this result is simply required connecting the extended terminals of the wires 5 and 6 together after wetting or dampening the coil-body."
So, from the way it sounds to me, you would need to try this experiment on 5&6 after you construct your core with the secondary coil around it.
Hello LaserSaber!
Very nice demonstration in video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcjxA7bYUp0.
What happens if you
connect outer copper to inner iron (the copper wire and the iron wire in series in the same turning sense)
and then messure (voltage, amperage and magnetic effect) on outer iron and inner copper ?
For completeness sake one could
connect outer copper to outer iron (the copper wire and the iron wire in series in counter turning sense)
and then messure (voltage, amperage and magnetic effect) on inner iron and inner copper ?
You propably thought of this yourself and it did not cause anything interesting to happen?
Greetings,
Conrad
To Wintermuteai1 and LaserSaber!
Having read hundreds of old patents and also newer patents about "wonderful things" I observed that many inventors do not describe crucial elements, materials and even important electrical connections in their patents. This is of course misguided, because exactly these important features will not be protected by the patent. It is the old "I want to become rich and therefore I keep the real secrets to myself" that leads people to do this little tricks, and specially laymen and lone inventors are prone to it.
Therefore it is best to replicate the "wonderful thing" as LaserSaber is doing so nicely and to experiment in order to find out additional or not disclosed effects.
It is of course clear that one needs an even number of winding layers in order to come out with the wire ends at the same side where the beginning ends start. But this might be the sloppy drawing in patent US600457 and not an intentional omission.
I like the idea of LaserSaber to use reed switches and a little rotor (with permanent magnets) to switch the coil (or the copper and the iron coil) which might in the end induce a higher voltage and current in a secondary coil (made out of enamelled copper magnet winding wire).
One could also do the switching with a transistor in a joule thief style circuit, but the rotor and the reed switch will work with very low voltages and very low currents (much lower voltage than with a transistor). Although it will be difficult to get a stable switching frequency with the rotor and the switching frequency might have to be increased by using more magnets on a bigger rotor. But the massive inductance of this big and heavy coil might just ask for a rather low frequency (in the hundreds of Hertz), which has implications for the secondary.
So, LaserSaber is on the right track and it is good to find out much more about the magnetic properties of the coil before going to a secondary which might have to be optimised in a certain direction (e.g. low frequency).
I have since some time planed to go on a trip over Easter, therefore my Stubblefield coil replication has to wait a few weeks. I am also just building an orbo replication which is in the final stages. Orbo (toroids as magnet shields) is an interesting motor concept, but not over unity as far as I can see.
The work of LaserSaber has definitely hooked me on Stubblefield coils.
Greetings, Conrad
Reed switch and rotor with magnets on a Stubblefield coil:
I just looked into reed switches http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/317181.pdf
Typical operate time incl. bounce is 0.5 ms, release time 0.1 ms.
With a typical reed switch and a rotor with magnets, the Stubblefield coil can be switched with a frequency of up to about 1000 Hertz ( 1KHz ).
Let's hope that this is a good range for driving a secondary.
Soft iron core of a Stubblefield coil:
The iron wire used for winding the coil could also be used to build a core by packing e.g. 15 or 20 rods (wire cut according to the intended height of the coil) together to form a thick rod with about 10 mm diameter.
Or one could stack flat cable ferrites http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/81244.pdf to form a rod like structure (by gluing the flat ferrites together, overlapping).
Greetings,
Conrad
Quote from: conradelektro on March 20, 2010, 09:55:59 AM
It is the old "I want to become rich and therefore I keep the real secrets to myself" that leads people to do this little tricks, and specially laymen and lone inventors are prone to it.
Greetings, Conrad
Hello Conrad,
It might be true that SOME people do those tricks, so that they can preserve their secrets for themselves, but what is also true is that sometimes inventors didn't put certain things in their patents because the little stuff they left out was just "common knowledge". Everyone KNEW those little things back then, so why repeat it?
It is too bad WE are not taught all the important things of how things operate anymore. Every school should be teaching those things to the children from the beginning, but we have either gotten "lazy" or we have decided that basic information is no longer necessary since we now have such state of the art, high tech equipment. I would like to know the basics, myself.
@LaserSaber
On one of my coils, which has dried out for nearly a month now, and never been buried, I got a reading last night of V= .432 and A= 2.94
I have been hooking up the inner cu to the pos of meter and outer fe to neg of meter.
I also notice that there is a lot of activity around the outside of the coil. I couldn't find my compass, so I used two neos hooked together on a string of thread and dangled it on the side of the coil. It started spinning, faster and faster until it had wound the thread pretty tight. I took it away from the coil and straightened out the thread to make sure it was straight, and then tried it again. Same thing. It spins all around the coil...some places stronger than others. At the bottom end it seemed to want to reverse itself.
Then, after I was all done playing with the coils, and it was time for bed, I just set them aside and crawled into bed. But I couldn't stand the smell of the ozone, or DOR or whatever it is that I can smell when the coils are operating. So I had to remove them to the other room. But I could still smell it for a while. The same thing happens with large jts....only that smell is worse. I consider the jt smell to probably be DOR and the coil to probably be ozone. Anyone know? I suppose someone at educate-yourself.org would know, but I have not gotten there yet to ask. I do know that coils can heal, and the smell of the operating coil is not a bad smell...just very strong and powerful. (enough that I couldn't sleep with it nearby) Does anyone know, then, what it is? Is it just the magnetic field, and that I am sensitive to it? Is it harmful in any way?
I just realized that smell is the same smell you get when there is going to be a thunderstorm.
QuoteV= .432 and A= 2.94
Almost 3 amps with less than half a volt? Doesnt look right.
Iota,
I just took another reading and this is what I got:
Under Volts...using the (2) .446
Under Amps...using the (20m) It finally stopped on 2.96
It started out at around 6 and then kept going down, at first fast, then it took about ten seconds in between each change once it got to the 3's. Then when it hit 2.8 it started taking nearly 30 seconds to change. When it hit 2.96 I waited an entire minute and it had not yet changed.
So does that sound right, or is the meter broken, or what?
QuoteSo does that sound right, or is the meter broken, or what?
I doubt it. Apparently Your getting about the same as Laser. I would like to know if these are digital meters or analog. Im thinking the coil is holding its charge like a cap. If folks are getting 2 amps with half a volt Im impressed. Id like to see a 2 amp load hooked up with a digital clamp amp meter with a hold function already in place, or an analog scope preferably before connecting the load..
I must be missing something here and I would like to know what it is. Its been stated by a few people that digital or analog meters dont work well with NS coil measurements as its a different type of energy being produced. They seem to only work to a point.
If anyone can tell me why the amps are so high let me know.
One more thought. I would like to see what kind of measurements there would be with the coil elevated to 6 foot or more over a 24 hour period.
Quote from: IotaYodi on March 20, 2010, 06:16:25 PM
I doubt it. Apparently Your getting about the same as Laser. I would like to know if these are digital meters or analog. Im thinking the coil is holding its charge like a cap. If folks are getting 2 amps with half a volt Im impressed. Id like to see a 2 amp load hooked up with a digital clamp amp meter with a hold function already in place, or an analog scope preferably before connecting the load..
I must be missing something here and I would like to know what it is. Its been stated by a few people that digital or analog meters dont work well with NS coil measurements as its a different type of energy being produced. They seem to only work to a point.
If anyone can tell me why the amps are so high let me know.
I would suggest analog meters. From my research digital meters get borked by the radiant/zpe/your fav term/ whereas analog I have heard numerous times seem to be fine, although I would suggest wiring the meter some distance away from the collector/converter device(s).
Iota_
I used an analog meter this time and although I am not sure if it is calibrated correctly or not, (can't find my manual on it right now) here are the readings:
V~ was half way between 2 and 3
V-... (line with three dots under it) was 45
Then I tried a different digital from the first digital and the readings were:
DCmA = 3.63
DCV = .445 (it went up to .448, but I am going with the .445)
I will elevate it tonight and see what happens, but why would the elevation help any? What is the purpose?
Anyone know how to calibrate the analog meters? I know it has to do with the little screw in front...but I forgot how to measure what when you calibrate.
@ protonmom,
Quote from: protonmom on March 20, 2010, 07:27:16 PM
Iota_
I will elevate it tonight and see what happens, but why would the elevation help any? What is the purpose?
Anyone know how to calibrate the analog meters? I know it has to do with the little screw in front...but I forgot how to measure what when you calibrate.
I think Iota wants to see if the effect remains the same or diminishes with height.
jim
I just looked at lasersabers latest video, very good indeed, but couldnt download them, never mind.
Very impressive work there.
The reed switch seems to be working to switch the magnetic field in a similar fashion to JB motors, I would like to see a scope waveform to see just how much spikes are on this thing.
It's a pity I am not back at my place or I would post a JPG of a wiring up diagram.
Batt Pos --------------.___.-------------\/\/\/\-------------- Bat Neg
Reed SW Torch Bulb
Try this experiment, make a completly seperate circuit up containing a battery, reed switch and a torch globe all in series, hold the reed switch to the strongest magnetic field and see if the bulb flickers on or off.
Do the same with a LED, it will switch quicker.
Well done lasersaber.
jim
QuoteI will elevate it tonight and see what happens, but why would the elevation help any?
In his Lectures on Physics, Richard Feynman stated that as you go up from the surface of the earth, the electrical potential increases by about 100 volts per meter. Thus a vertical electric field gradient of 100 volts/meter exists in the air.
As a means of explanation, imagine the existence of a very sensitive voltmeter that could measure the voltages present in the open air. If you pushed the negative terminal of the instrument's probe into the earth's surface and you positioned the positive lead one meter above the surface, about 100 volts would be detected. If you then moved the probe vertically by another meter above the surface, the voltmeter would measure 200 volts. This voltage difference would continue to increase as you moved the positive probe upward until it reached the top of the atmosphere, some 150,000 feet (46,000 meters) up. At that point, the instrument would finally measure an average potential difference of about 4 million volts.
This naturally occurring 100 volts per meter electric field gradient exists everywhere in the earth's atmosphere and can even penetrate inside most buildings.
To calibrate the ohmmeter, you touch the red and black leads together and turn the adjusting screw until the needle is at 0.
While any and all experimenting with the NBS device as with any device are great, please note that Stubblefield's "battery" was in the ground itself, and has been said to generate all kinds of power including somehow generating light from the earth that lit up the hills around it with light that was very like daylight. Raising the device up in the air may do something, but I will say again that it should go into the ground with a coil antenna attached and put that into the air. If you know Tesla this will make sense. :)
(you will need the secondary coil around the core however.)
Thanks Iota. I remembered how it worked right after I got offline after the last post. I did have to make an adjustment on the analog.
Also, it looks like I am going to have a little bit better reading on the coil in a few minutes. I had noticed one of the soldered wires felt a bit loose, so I re-soldered it, and now the readings have gone up. I am just waiting now for the meter to finish doing its thing, and settle on a number.
Then I will re-check the analog too.
I have the coil now up at about 6 feet off the floor. The leads are long enough to reach way down to the meter, so no problem there.
Electricme, I hooked up the reedswitch/led with a battery in circuit and it lit fine, but I was wondering how Laser hooked up a reed without any battery at all. I have not perfected my coil to that extent yet. I am waiting on further instructions from Laser.
I will post the results of the new reading in a few minutes.
Okay, this does not look right to ME now.
With newly soldered wire (maybe I should re-solder all the wires)
Digitals:
Etek.......A (under 20m) = 5.80 V (under 2) = .504 and rising (I waited a long time before it got to the .504 It started around 8 this time. It started oscillating at .503 .504 .505)
Innova.....DCmA = 6.44 DcV = .507
and newly calibrated analog meter
V~ (under 10) = 3 V-... (under 2.5) =50
Isn't that a rather big change for just re-soldering one wire?
Very good work done here... This coil is really impressive.
Here we have at least a new source of "free energy" that might prove to be cheaper than solar energy...
To ProtonMom!
I think your meter readings are very consistent (about 0.5 Volt and 5 to 6 Milliampere), well done.
What I would like to see are the following measurements:
First, you probably have four wires coming out of your coil: The beginning ends of the copper and the iron wire, which I call the inner cooper and the inner iron wire (because they are near the iron core of the coil). And then you have the outer copper and the outer iron wire (because they are on the outside of the coil where the windings end).
In the Stubblefield patent the inner copper and the inner iron wire are supposed to be left open, just sticking in the air or in the ground when the coil is buried.
The measurements you posted were (as I understood) done on the outer iron and the outer copper wire (which gave you about 0,5 Volt and about 5 Milliampere) while the inner iron and the inner copper wire were left open.
Could you please measure (Volt and Milliampere):
1) Outer copper -- inner iron (LaserSaber gets a rather strong electromagnetic effect when he shortens these ends)
2) Outer iron -- inner copper (LaserSaber gets a rather strong electromagnetic effect when he shortens these ends)
3) Outer iron -- inner iron (LaserSaber gets a rather weak electromagnetic effect when he shortens these ends)
4) Outer copper -- inner copper (LaserSaber gets a rather weak electromagnetic effect when he shortens these ends)
Now I would like to see measurements when the iron and the copper wire are connected in series:
5) Connect inner iron to outer copper and measure outer iron -- inner copper.
6) Connect inner iron to inner copper and measure outer iron -- outer copper.
It seems that you have your coil and your meter at hand, therefore I take the liberty to ask you to do these six measurements.
In case some one else has a Stubblefield coil and a meter ready, I would also ask you to do the six systematic measurements suggested above.
Greetings, Conrad
Lasersaber has been doing a wonderful job here and should be commended. Very nice work and great videos as well.
On the 2 coils I built, I always got the highest volts and mA readings from either the iron wire to the core, or the copper wire to the core. It did not seem to matter which iron or copper wire I used. (Either end of the coil)
I have always wanted to try a ferrite core since all of our experiments in the JT topic and, one day, I will do so. I am pretty busy these days trying to survive in this terrible economy.
Bill
Quotebut I will say again that it should go into the ground with a coil antenna attached and put that into the air.
That would be correct. The coil itself would pickup more of the telluric currents. It would be interesting to try 2 coils tied together with one in the ground and the other elevated. An 8 foot NS coil would also be interesting to try with one end in the ground. No matter how its done it seems the location of these currents is crucial.
Lasersaber,
It took me a while to first see your videos, then to digest a little bit of what you did.
Before I comment on the NS motor videos, I want to say I watched your very cool RC flying saucer video. You have some really fun ideas.
I am also guessing that the little motors you are making are from your own manufacture?
Could you please describe how you made the little motor with the propeller?
I am asking how many turns and is the armature like the coffee cup motor... etc??
thanks.
Now, in the NS coil motor video, you show the reed switch connected between the outer copper (5) and the inner iron (10) wire.
I saw how you showed with the compass how the 5,6 did not make any magnetic change there, but did you try the reed switch on the 5,6 and have it not work?
This is very curious.
I remember doing these compass things, but I did not think it was so weak across the 5,6. I may be remembering this wrong, but I have the memory that the inner and outer gave similar results. I might have to dig out my compass-galvanometer again.
I love your ideas and I love how they are inspiring me to get back into the NS EER effort.
While I have your attention, I would also like to ask if there is any trick or need to match the reed switch to the NS coil or motor?
I have some very tiny reed switches and a reed relay from RS which I have never used and haven't much of a clue here, so thanks for any help.
(I think it was for the NS coil that I originally purchased the reed relay from RS, but never learned where to connect it, so I let it drop!!)
Thank you for your great work here,
jeanna
I know my questions are mostly stupid, but I have to ask:
When the coil is submerged in water, and then removed from the water, it generates power during the time that it is drying up, right? For how many hours it generates power?
Another question: has someone tried to connect more than one of these coils in series and in parallel to check if the volts and amps are added?
This coil has a clear advantage over traditional Earth batteries (made with linear wires) in terms of space occupied. It occupies much less space, if the idea is to connect several coils in series and/or in parallel to get enough energy to run something like a small FM radio receiver, for example.
[A author=conradelektro link=topic=3500.msg233584#msg233584
What I would like to see are the following measurements:
Could you please measure (Volt and Milliampere):
1) Outer copper -- inner iron (LaserSaber gets a rather strong electromagnetic effect when he shortens these ends)
2) Outer iron -- inner copper (LaserSaber gets a rather strong electromagnetic effect when he shortens these ends)
3) Outer iron -- inner iron (LaserSaber gets a rather weak electromagnetic effect when he shortens these ends)
4) Outer copper -- inner copper (LaserSaber gets a rather weak electromagnetic effect when he shortens these ends)
Now I would like to see measurements when the iron and the copper wire are connected in series:
5) Connect inner iron to outer copper and measure outer iron -- inner copper.
6) Connect inner iron to inner copper and measure outer iron -- outer copper.
In case some one else has a Stubblefield coil and a meter ready, I would also ask you to do the six systematic measurements suggested above.
Greetings, Conrad
[/quote]
here are my tests just for your information.
1. same voltage and mamps
2. same voltage and mamps
3. 0 for both
4. 0 for both
5. 0 for both
6. 0 for both
my voltage is at .36 volts and the mamps are .21
I have tested my coil with a 1.20 volt battery attached to both the copper wires then to both iron wires. this was a test for the electromagnetic effect. this shorthing the 5 and 10 with a battery was the only way i could make an electormagnet. unless i used the 6 and the iron 10 shorted with a battery. then it also made an electromagnet. it may be this coil is just to small its has about 20 feet of both kinds of wire.
what i do not understand is how lasersaber can get a voltage across just one wire in his video he has voltage across the copper wire 5 and 10 and that makes an electromagnet, at least on my wires it makes one.
Dennis
I am talking about the following measurements on a Stubblefield coil:
0) Outer copper -- outer iron (the classic way of using a Stubblefield coil)
1) Outer copper -- inner iron (LaserSaber gets a rather strong electromagnetic effect when he shortens these ends)
2) Outer iron -- inner copper (LaserSaber gets a rather strong electromagnetic effect when he shortens these ends)
3) Outer iron -- inner iron (LaserSaber gets a rather weak electromagnetic effect when he shortens these ends)
4) Outer copper -- inner copper (LaserSaber gets a rather weak electromagnetic effect when he shortens these ends)
5) Connect inner iron to outer copper and measure outer iron -- inner copper.
6) Connect inner iron to inner copper and measure outer iron -- outer copper.
7) Any wire end -- core
So far we have learned:
Whatever the videos from LaserSaber http://www.youtube.com/user/lasersaber show.
ProtonMom measures about 0.5 Volt and about 5 mA in case 0)
Pirate88179 measures best results in case 7)
Pardon (Dennis) measures about 0.36 Volts and 0.21 mA in the cases 1) and 2) and nothing in cases 3) to 6).
May be the proud owners of Stubblefield coils could do some more measurements? It would be nice to be able to compare results. I know, I should build one myself instead of bothering others to do measurements. I will, but it would be helpful to build on the experience of people who already have coils. That is the purpose of a forum.
Wintermuteai1 wants a secondary winding on the Stubblefield coil (I guess as shown in Fig. 4 in patent US600457), the coil placed in the ground (I suppose together with the secondary) and a coil antenna in the air. How should the coil antenna be connected to the Stubblefield coil? May be the coil antenna should be parallel to the secondary? What is a coil antenna?
Greetings, Conrad
Hi Lasersaber impressive video nice nice. I would like others to experiment with bifilar copper and Fe and see the results too.
Another thing when using coils it is very good idea that you have an orgone generator near cause who knows what would go out of these maybe it would emit harmful frequencies.
To do an orgone generator it's very easy just resin;aluminium filings and other metals if you want and crystals in a small winded coil.
Thanks guys.
Quote from: guruji on March 22, 2010, 08:02:43 AM
To do an orgone generator it's very easy just resin;aluminium filings and other metals if you want and crystals in a small winded coil.
Thanks guys.
Garuji, You are right. I have some TB's (not for tower use, but for my health) and the other day I brought 8 of them into the room where I was doing my experiments on the coil. Not only did it remove any and all smells from the coil, but it also affected the magnetism of the coil. So I had to remove them again. I will use them if the smell is strong again, but I don't want them messing up my readings...so now they stay out of the area.
On the testing of coils. Yes, I can do tests on my coils, but I have to do it on the days when my health allows.
I, too, was wondering about hooking up several coils together for my Volts/Amps. The pics of Stubbs always shows many coils together...so maybe that is his secret. Just start making as many coils as you can, preferably all the same size, I would imagine. Then bury them together. Would it make a difference if they were buried inside a box, or do they need to be actually touching the earth to work? Anyone know? I keep thinking of the picture of the Stubblefield farm where all the coils were in a crate. Did he insert the entire crate into the ground, or did he remove one coil at a time?
Quoteit may be this coil is just to small its has about 20 feet of both kinds of wire.
Thats not much wire at all. A question to you and all NS builders. Is there any other coating on your wire besides cotton? What size wire? I wouldnt go with anything less than #14. Upping the size to #12 or #10 would be more suitable. The larger the coil and magnetic field, the more power that can be generated. Ive tried to find a company in the states that sells plain insulated cotton wire but its all custom order. The brillman company has cotton braided wire but it has a pvc coating also. Its $30 for 100 foot of #14. They do have 500 foot rolls in various sizes. A custom order will be higher with a minimum length you can buy.
Someone correct me if Im wrong here. You would get the direct current flow on the bare copper to the cotton. If its pvc insulated your only getting the induced current on the wire from the field collapse and not on the cotton. 2 exact coils would have to be made,one with pvc and the other only cotton,to see if there is a big difference. I think there would be.
@guruji : I think thats an excellent Idea.
QuoteWould it make a difference if they were buried inside a box, or do they need to be actually touching the earth to work?
The coil has to remain damp. As far as direct burial I think that would be better but its still dependent on the locations intensity. NS has stated this.
LaserSaber, I know you are busy, and I hate to be a pest...but could we get a drawing of how you made your coil, and how it is hooked up to produce the energy to run your fan? Thanks.
Quote from: Rapadura on March 21, 2010, 10:18:30 PM
I know my questions are mostly stupid, but I have to ask:
When the coil is submerged in water, and then removed from the water, it generates power during the time that it is drying up, right? For how many hours it generates power?
Another question: has someone tried to connect more than one of these coils in series and in parallel to check if the volts and amps are added?
It needs to be damp so that is the deal... damp.
How long it remains damp will directly relate to how much cotton is there and how wet it was to begin with.
Yes, it works.
But the part to remember is this is a coil which is not a galvanic battery. It has the galvanic element to start it but the coil takes over from then on.
----------
-
@Conrad,
The question of the galvanic reaction causing electricity and a voltage potential in the wires is not important to me, anymore.
I did this extensively and posted my results ad nauseam and the results are all either here or on Pirate's bifilar coils thread.
Please research these 2 threads for the results you seek.
Or, of course, you could make a coil yourself!
-------
@Pardon,
Quote
I have tested my coil with a 1.20 volt battery attached to both the copper wires then to both iron wires. this was a test for the electromagnetic effect. this shorting the 5 and 10 with a battery was the only way i could make an electormagnet. unless i used the 6 and the iron 10 shorted with a battery. then it also made an electromagnet. it may be this coil is just to small its has about 20 feet of both kinds of wire.
what i do not understand is how lasersaber can get a voltage across just one wire in his video he has voltage across the copper wire 5 and 10 and that makes an electromagnet, at least on my wires it makes one.
Dennis
Thanks for finding your notes.
Mine are the same, and I also did the test using an external battery and found an electromagnet.
My only thought on how lasersaber could do the em with just one wire is that he literally hand pulsed it. I used to do this before I understood pulses and it always gave me some reading - even a spark when I reversed the wires! Now, I understand it was the
change in the emf caused by the pulse that did it.
So, this is the reason the little cap motor with 4 magnets shutting off the switch works. It makes the pulse happen because it is automatically making the connection or removing it.
-------------
@IY,
QuoteSomeone correct me if Im wrong here. You would get the direct current flow on the bare copper to the cotton. If its pvc insulated your only getting the induced current on the wire from the field collapse and not on the cotton. 2 exact coils would have to be made,one with pvc and the other only cotton,to see if there is a big difference. I think there would be.
It is only a slight galvanic element but without that there would need to be an external battery. This is included with the wet copper wire. It is also likely that there is electroplating that occurs at the end of each pulse which keeps the coil in good repair.
------
@protonmom,
QuoteLaserSaber, I know you are busy, and I hate to be a pest...but could we get a drawing of how you made your coil, and how it is hooked up to produce the energy to run your fan?
He shows it in his videos.
He made his coil exactly like the drawings NS made right down to the wooden spool ends. It is amazing to see.
He hooked the copper end to one side of the reed switch and the iron to the other end. Only, I think he used the opposite end of the iron wire, but with aligator clips that is easy to try all ways.
thank you everybody,
I am going to find or make a reed switch and try this on one of my NS coils I have here.
jeanna
edit
http://www.youtube.com/user/theDaftman#p/u/15/TSTNVTEqwqg (http://www.youtube.com/user/theDaftman#p/u/15/TSTNVTEqwqg)
This is a video where thedaftman does the very same thing.
He uses a bedini bifilar coil and only connects the beginning of one to the end of the other but connects the other wires together. Then he makes his own reed switch from 2 brass plates with an iron washer etc, and when he adds the battery... ta da!
Quote from: conradelektro on March 22, 2010, 04:46:18 AM
Wintermuteai1 wants a secondary winding on the Stubblefield coil (I guess as shown in Fig. 4 in patent US600457), the coil placed in the ground (I suppose together with the secondary) and a coil antenna in the air. How should the coil antenna be connected to the Stubblefield coil? May be the coil antenna should be parallel to the secondary? What is a coil antenna?
Greetings, Conrad
Greetings Conrad,
As far as the Coil antenna it is probable that experimentation will have to be done as to how and where to connect the coil antenna. If you examine NBS patent # 887357 you will see examples of coil antenna attached to the "earth battery". You can also infer from photos of NBS. It is my opinion that any antenna should be attached to wires 5 & 6 with the secondary coil to the load, however it is possible that a multiple of ways could be used. It is likely that with an antenna in the air and the "battery" in the ground unknown amounts of current could develop and a spark gap or other devices could be made use of. Since Stubblefield and Tesla were associates, and in looking at Tesla's radiant energy patents it seems likely that Stubblefield came up with a way using this "battery" in coupling with antenna and perhaps tuning coils etc to collect vast amounts of energy from the vacuum/zpe/radiant etc. Since testimony can be read that he not only powered an entire town, radiated from the ground light that appeared as sunlight, and even provided heat to his small home via two polished metal plates facing each other (which were tied in to his device). This is very interesting to note because if you have researched Tesla, you will note that Tesla discovered a myriad of effects when he timed his apparatus via spark gap with an electromagnet(he tried various things even rotating mercury SG). For example:
QuoteTrains of impulses, each exceeding 0.1 millisecond duration, produced pain and
mechanical pressures. In this radiant field, objects visibly vibrated and even moved as
the force field drove them along. Thin wires, exposed to sudden bursts of the radiant field, exploded into vapor. Pain and physical movements ceased when impulses of 100 microseconds or less were produced. With impulses of 1.0 microsecond duration, strong physiological heat was sensed. Further decreases in impulse duration
brought spontaneous illuminations capable of filling rooms and vacuum globes with white
light. At these impulse frequencies, Tesla was able to stimulate the appearance of effects, which are normally admixed among the electromagnetic energies inherent in sunlight. Shorter impulses produced cool room penetrating breezes, with an accompanying uplift in mood and awareness. There were no limits in this progression toward impulses of diminished duration
Therefore, it can be seen that Stubblefield and Tesla both achieved similar results. So we can see that the "earth battery" device is a radiant/zpe collector/converter and that other things such as antenna and tuning coils, along with most likely spark gap with precise timing is how stubblefield achieved the numerous effects that numerous witnesses witnessed at the time.
http://www.simplemotor.com/rsmotor.htm (http://www.simplemotor.com/rsmotor.htm)
This is a good explanation of what lasersaber is doing.
It looks like a possible source for big reed switches too.
jeanna
A source for reed switches http://www.meder.com/reed-switches.html
http://www.meder.com/index.php?id=2965&tx_ttaddress_pi1[country]=220 (US representatives)
Can also be ordered from Farnell , order code 1079468 http://www.farnell.com/ (costs less than 1 Euro).
Be aware of the fact that a reed switch can only switch about a 1000 times per second ( 1 KHz). The coil can therefore only swing with up to 1 KHz in case you use a reed switch.
Reed switches also bounce (not a clean on / off). But the massive coil might just absorb the spikes like a choke.
On could build a commutator on the shaft of the rotor that shortens the coil several times per revolution. This could give frequencies up to several KHz but will also cause bouncing (not a clean on / off).
As LaserSaber shows in his video, the little rotor turns, so the reed switch switches the coil somehow. But is this enough to drive a secondary in a useful way? It is worth a try.
An other path would be to go for an oscillating circuit (resonance) by putting a variable capacitor on two ends of the coil and leaving the other two ends open (or shortening them, or putting a capacitor on each of the two ends). But this oscillator would have to be driven by some mysterious earth frequency (harmonic) if it indeed exists. This has been discussed in this thread and did not lead to a solution.
Greetings, Conrad
Hello all
I have made many tests today after adding a secondary to my coil. so far i have nothing to report that is of any use but it has failed. i can not see any voltage on the secondary. it may be to large of wire size and not long enough. it about 25 feet long.
going back to the ls video. this has been bugging me all day. i have done everything i can do to figure out how to get a voltage across a wire to display on my meter. without adding some kind of resistance, or increase of power. so i am thinking if he did not add anything to the coil but he can display a meter reading either volts or amps. then something in the coil it self is making this change. so i am asking is this one of the stublefield secrets of the coil.
also i am thinking my center bolt may not be as soft as i thought it was. and that may be why i do not have very good readings.
one of the positive things i found out was , if i pulse the coil then stop pulsing it the voltage stays in the coil and slowly gos down taking about a minute to get back to normal. so it is acting kinda like a cap.
@Pardon:
Try something: apply current to the inner wires with say a battery, and then connect the 5&6 wires(outer) together and remove external current. With the outer wires still connected test the inner wires with your meter. Also perhaps try the opposite, apply current to the outer wires with the two inner wires connected and test the outer wires with your meter. Just curious.
@ LaserSaber,
Would this be one way to hook up your coil to produce more energy? ;)
jim
Stubblefield Coil, Insulating Material
In patent US600457 Stubblefield describes four insulating materials (see attached snapshot from the patent):
1) Insulating material 8: each coil or layer of the windings is separated from the adjacent coils or layers by an interposed layer of cloth or equivalent insulating material 8
2) Insulating material 9: a similar layer of insulating material 9 also surrounds the longitudinal core-piece 1 to insulate from this core piece the innermost coil or layer of the windings
3) Protective covering 14: the solenoid or secondary coil 12 is of an ordinary construction, comprising a wire closely wound into a coil of any desired size on an ordinary spool 13 and in cased within a protective covering 14 of mica, celluloid, or equivalent material
4) Insulating material 15: the spool 13 of the solenoid or secondary coil may be conveniently secured directly on the exterior of the coil body 4 between the heads 3 with a suitable layer or wrapping of insulating material 15, interposed between the spool and the body 4
Interpretation of the insulating materials used by Stubblefield in modern terms:
a) The insulating material 8 is the cotton cloth between the layers of the bifilar primary and the cotton cover around the copper wire. This cotton is not really an insulator, rather a conduit for water and ions for the galvanic reaction. Remember, the Stubblefield coil is supposed to be damp or wet.
b) The insulating material 9 around the core should not automatically be seen as cotton too. One could argue that the core should be indeed insulated, because one does not want a galvanic reaction between the copper wire and the core, only between the copper wire and the iron wire. One should try to completely insulate the core (including the parts sticking out through the wooden disks) with some lacquer (paint) or plastic material (e.g. shrink wrap).
c) The protective covering 14 (mica, celluloid or equivalent material) of the secondary would be the modern lacquer around the magnet wire used for the secondary, called enameled copper wire. The secondary is therefore also completely insulated.
d) The wrapping of insulating material 15 between the secondary and the bifilar primary should also be really insulating, may be one uses some plastic sheet. But this is not very important because the enameled copper wire of the secondary is insulated by its lacquer.
Subblefield coil as a resonator (see attached drawing):
Imagine a very crude switch (e.g. a pointed steel nail tipped to a little steel plate). This crude switch will bounce like wild and has some similarity to a spark gap (a spark gap was the usual switching element in those days, they did not have transistors).
Connect a steel nail witch a piece of wire to the outer copper wire of the primary coil and a little steel plate with a piece of wire to the inner iron wire of the primary coil. The nail should be insulated with some tape near the head so that you can touch it without being part of the circuit (you would be a capacitance). By touching the steel plate with the tip of the nail you can now switch the coil be hand.
Imagine doing Morse code with your nail on the little steel plate. Whenever you shortly touch the steel plate with the nail tip a few sharp spikes will be produced and these spikes will ring the primary, which in turn rings the secondary, which should then do a few spikes with a higher amplitude. It will be like striking a bell with a hammer (the bell is the secondary and the hammer is the primary switched by your nail). It is also a replication of a telegraph as used in those times, the ends from the secondary leading to a receiver which has a coil to reproduce the Morse code as magnetic pulses driving a lever.
One has to experiment to find out which ends of the primary coil have to be switched by hand with the nail (outer copper to outer iron, or outer iron to inner copper) and what to do with the free ends of the primary coil. One could put a capacitor (with Pico Farads or Nano Farads) on the free ends if one speculates that the primary should ring a few times when shortened by hand with the nail.
Greetings, Conrad
Here is a drawing showing how I made my coil. I will post a drawing showing how to hook it up later. I got to get on a plan now!
I will post much more when I have the time.
@ conradelectro,
Thank you for your well made discription of the building materials on the stubblefield coil. :)
I have one question, which is, how would one bend mica without it snapping? I am referring to the mica which is used in those old toasters of years gone by.
Maybe there is a process avaliable to make it soft, I know the old Birko soldering irons used rolled mica as insulation.
@ lasersaber,
Now why did I not think of using colours to isolate the different wires as you have shown above, ::) that coloured diagram is way easier on the eyes than just the black and white monochrome ones, excellent work.
jim
I would not use mica. The secondary will nowadays be wound with enameled copper wire (lacquer on the copper, in the US they call this "magnet wire"), which one buys some where (e.g. Farnell)
PRO POWER - ECW0.4 - WIRE, COPPER ENAMELLED, 27SWG (www.farnell.com)
Manufacturer: PRO POWER
Order Code: 1230978
Manufacturer Part Number: ECW0.4
Or in case one wants thinner wire:
PRO POWER - ECW0.2 - WIRE, COPPER ENAMELLED, 35SWG (www.farnell.com)
Manufacturer: PRO POWER
Order Code:1230974
Manufacturer Part Number: ECW0.2
I would insulate the core with heatshrink tubing (www.farnell.com)
SPC TECHNOLOGY - FPFA-016-6016 AST - Flame-Retardant Heat-Shrink Tubing Assortment
Manufacturer: SPC TECHNOLOGY
Order Code: 1845950
Manufacturer Part Number: FPFA-016-6016
Between the secondary and the primary I would use some household plastic foil.
The cotton cloth (for the primary) should be as pure as possible (wash it before use). Buy it in a store for healthy clothing, white cotton cloth. Buy some bed linen.
The cotton coating around the copper wire of the primary is crucial. I think the source for this wire as given by LaserSaber http://wires.co.uk/acatalog/dcc_wire.html is optimal. Getting cotton wrapped copper wire is not easy, because nowadays everybody is using some plastic coating as insulation.
One could use bare copper wire and sew (with a sewing maschine) a sleeve of cotton on it. The sleeve can be too big and loose. But this is some real tinkering, I will order the cotton covered copper wire from Great Britain.
125g 0.9mm Double Cotton Covered Copper Wire Ref: dc0900-125 (eight rolls = 1 kilo)
http://wires.co.uk/acatalog/dcc_wire.html
and
1kg 0.9mm Galvanised Iron Wire Ref: IR0900G-1000 (one kilo)
http://wires.co.uk/acatalog/fe_galv.html
For the core I will also use the galvanised iron wire, putting up to 20 rods of this wire together in a bundle fixing them tight with the heatshrink tubing.
Greetings, Conrad
(P.S.: I am not a sales person from Farnell, but they are a good source for electronic components and they sell in small quantities. You have to order via a company/store, because they do not sell to private individuals, which I think is super stupid of them.)
Quote from: Pardon on March 23, 2010, 01:26:43 AM
Hello all
I have made many tests today after adding a secondary to my coil. so far i have nothing to report that is of any use but it has failed. i can not see any voltage on the secondary. it may be to large of wire size and not long enough. it about 25 feet long.
going back to the ls video. this has been bugging me all day. i have done everything i can do to figure out how to get a voltage across a wire to display on my meter. without adding some kind of resistance, or increase of power. so i am thinking if he did not add anything to the coil but he can display a meter reading either volts or amps. then something in the coil it self is making this change. so i am asking is this one of the stublefield secrets of the coil.
also i am thinking my center bolt may not be as soft as i thought it was. and that may be why i do not have very good readings.
one of the positive things i found out was , if i pulse the coil then stop pulsing it the voltage stays in the coil and slowly gos down taking about a minute to get back to normal. so it is acting kinda like a cap.
In LS video doesn't he tell us there is no voltage but a magnetic field set up?
I have gotten voltage from my secondaries, so I do know it works.
I never saw it til I had my scope, however.
It is a spike.
(This is why I personally had to stop with this coil until I had done much research with spikes through experiments on the joule thief.
Remember I used a NS coil as the toroid in a jtc, and it worked splendidly.)
So Dennis,
I suggest you pulse the 5,6 with a scope on the secondary wires.
If you do not have a scope, you might not be able to see this spike. A dmm cannot sense most of the good spikes. But maybe they can sense a hand pulsed one.
If no scope try this:
Make a bridge rectifier (or buy one) and put a cap across the output leads and measure the output that the cap can receive.
I guess you need to pulse it for a minute.
Use a cap from a disposable camera for this job.
This will only prove to you that it works.
We are, again dealing with spikes.
I personally think this is what we need to address. = How to get something from voltage spikes without amps.
The really cool thing about LS motor is that, like the bedini motor, it is turning something on a shaft, and this can translate to something we know how to use.
I am waiting for a small motor I just bought that will get my hands making a motor driven by a reed switch. Once I have made that I am sure I will be able to translate it into this NS coil motor etc...
http://www.simplemotor.com/rsmotor.htm (http://www.simplemotor.com/rsmotor.htm)
thank you,
jeanna
Mica can increase induction. You can make a mica slurry and cover the outside and let it harden if wanted. NS may not have known that mica had inductive property's. But its still not mandatory for the coil to work.
"The inside of ring A is coated with mica in order to increase the induction and also to allow higher potentials to be used".
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Alternate_Current_Electrostatic_Induction_Apparatus
Laser used 350 feet of wire. I personally think there is a minimum size for the Electromagnetic field in order for this coil to work in conjunction with the earths telluric currents . NS stated many turns of wire. The pictures Ive seen are fairly large coils.
Cotton should be used on the core and not plastic. You would lose some of the dielectric property's with plastic.
Lasers coil is the closest to specs Ive seen. Technically its simple to build. The hard part is the location and trigger. The location is paramount as NS knew.
With all the press coverage NS had with the renowned Tesla, does anyone really think that this coil doesn't work!
Big question! What are the dimensions of a good Stubblefield coil? (For some reasons I do not understand, I did not find any clear specifications of the coils which have been built by the posters in this thread. Height, width, number of windings, dimensions of the wires used, dimensions of the core?)
Let’s do some calculations based on the Stubblefield patent US600457. Of course one can not be sure whether the dimensions in the figures of this patent are accurate. But let’s take the figures as they are, we do not have more at the moment.
See the calculations in the attached drawing.
Greetings, Conrad
Sorry, here a better picture of the coil dimensions, Conrad
@Conrad,
Most of my NS coils had a full 25 foot roll of 18 AWG copper wire wrapped around a core that was about 1/2 inch in diameter.
Some of these cores were shorter than others.
I made 13 or 14 and I went into tedious detail and included pictures as well.
I am surprised you have not seen the posts.
edit
your drawing and the specs look very good and helpful - thank you.
=============
@All,
I have been thinking that the core was much more important than we realized.
If we chose a core of steel which "held" the magnetism for a while, the EMF with the collapse effect would be completely lost.
We kept trying to get the right kind of wires which are important to be sure, but I betcha the magnetic collapsibility of the core is more important than the thickness of the wire.
thank you,
jeanna
Conrad, you must not have read all the forum, then, because I have the dimensions of MY coils, and so do a lot of the other members....right down to the size of the wire.
I know it is hard to keep read-up on the forum, and is much easier to just jump right in, but a lot of the time, all the answers are right in the previous posts.
Laser, thank you for posting the drawing. Also, could you tell me what size magnets those are on your little "motor" cap" Thanks, Laser.
To ProtonMom:
What takes more time? To write your post saying again nothing or to state a few numbers?
Is this some sort of revenge or disciplinary action, making new members read through hundreds of useless posts to find a few dimensions?
Thank you very much, this is some very strange form of collaboration. That makes me wounder about the purpose of this forum. May be it is more a Freudian thing than a quest for progress in a technical sense.
I read through a number of threads and the amount of psychological noise is staggering.
Conrad
Quote from: conradelektro on March 23, 2010, 05:18:43 PM
To ProtonMom:
What takes more time? To write your post saying again nothing or to state a few numbers?
Is this some sort of revenge or disciplinary action, making new members read through hundreds of useless posts to find a few dimensions?
Thank you very much, this is some very strange form of collaboration. That makes me wounder about the purpose of this forum. May be it is more a Freudian thing than a quest for progress in a technical sense.
I read through a number of threads and the amount of psychological noise is staggering.
Conrad
Please try to be understanding Conrad,
It takes a long time to make a thoughtful post as you probably know, since you have made some.
Picture this if you will:
You make many experiments over one or two years.
Someone new comes and asks for the essential details.
You kindly stop your current experiment and research your papers and posts from 1 or 2 years ago.
Then in 5 months someone else asks those same questions.
You already did the research and answered these questions only a few months ago yet here is the same question or questions again.
You hope someone else will do the work this time.
There is nothing psychological about this.
It is tedious and boring to cover this same ground over and over.
It was such a relief and joy when protonmom came forward and announced her presence having read the entire forum not one but 2 times.
You have no idea, but maybe if you do some experiments you will see for yourself what it is like to have to repeat the answers another time for the next newcomer, and it will be your turn then.
thank you for understanding,
jeanna
@conrad
Actually it will help you in reading the entire thread because you can then make notes and intuitive leaps of your own based upon all the information as a whole. At times I will even go back just to find a particular post because it relates to something else I was thinking about. Welcome to the forum, I myself am relatively new around here as well. It's best to just ignore anything you feel is "Eccentricity" in others. Most here are bound to be Eccentric :) It's the nature of brilliant minds. Just weed the wheat from the chaff and "keep on truckin" as they say.
;D
Quotebut I betcha the magnetic collapse of the core is more important than the thickness of the wire.
Absolutely right. If the em field doesnt collapse properly then current cant be induced into the coil. Larger wire just produces more current and a larger magnetic field from the collapse. Without a soft iron core its just a paper weight. You cant have the core turn into a permanent magnet.
Nice work on the Pic Conrad.
@ Jeanna and IotaYodi
Yes so true and up to a point.
Quote from: IotaYodi on March 23, 2010, 08:31:53 PM
Absolutely right. If the em field doesnt collapse properly then current cant be induced into the coil. Larger wire just produces more current and a larger magnetic field from the collapse. Without a soft iron core its just a paper weight. You cant have the core turn into a permanent magnet.
Nice work on the Pic Conrad.
You will find when the stubblefield coil is working, you will be limited in what you can drive with it, if it is a small coil.
Using larger crossectional area iron and copper wires will in turn allow you to run larger devices.
It's well known if you want more power to drive a big electric motor, then you need a bigger generator, look inside the thing, examine the size of the output wires, weather they be, mounted on a rotating armature with slip rings, or wound in a stationary stator, then you will see what I am talking about.
But one thing is apparent to me, on the secondary (the copper coil wound over on top of the Bifilar wires) the more turns you put on the stubblefield coil, the higher the output, if the copper wires are of a larger size, the more power (grunt) is avaliable.
So you will need to tune the secondary, less turns, lowers output voltage, more turns raises the voltage.
Thicker wires raises the wattage, or amperage out, devices need a mixture of volts amd amps to work correctly.
But you carnt do this before the Bifilar coil section is working properly, Lasersaber is very close to the mark, there are others getting some good results too.
You carn't run a 1,000 watt toaster on a 500 watt generator, the gennie will burn out first every time.
Then once again I am getting way ahead of everyone.
jim
@ conradelectro,
Thanks for resending the second JPG at the top of this page, well done.
Send me a email please Conrad, I carn't PM you as it won't open properly here, as my satellite lag times interfeers with the OU forum and wont improve until I get back my prime time.
Thanks.
jim
QuoteYou carn't run a 1,000 watt toaster on a 500 watt generator, the gennie will burn out first every time.
Standard "hot" electricity for sure. But if the NS coil is using "cold" electricity as some suspect it may be possible to run larger currents in smaller wires without heating up the wires. Wont know that till there is a working prototype. It would be outstanding if we could even get a JT to work with it. Remote locations could have at least light then.
Quote from: IotaYodi on March 24, 2010, 12:58:40 PM
Standard "hot" electricity for sure. But if the NS coil is using "cold" electricity as some suspect it may be possible to run larger currents in smaller wires without heating up the wires. Wont know that till there is a working prototype. It would be outstanding if we could even get a JT to work with it. Remote locations could have at least light then.
OK
You won't be able to get a joule thief to work with it because a joule thief needs a steady supply not a pulsed one.
Do you remember? I used a stubblefield coil as a replacement for the toroid in a joule thief and there were voltage pulses that came off the secondary in the same manner as they do in a toroid with the secondary.
They were much higher as is found in the toroid with secondary. (I think 35v, and I may find my notes, but for now that is my memory of it.)
BUT, and maybe this is what you meant, if the pulses can be set in motion with the little rotor as lasersaber shows, the pulses from the secondary will be high and can light a remote location.
Anyway that is where I am going.
I intend to use what I have learned from my "joule thief as secondary or pulse generator" experiments to light a home.
Since there is a rotor involved it is easy to make the next leap.
thank you,
jeanna
edit
I guess what I think is the stubblefield coil really is a joule thief self contained.
It has the battery
the coil maybe centertapped??
the secondary
It even produces the pulses but they are in millivolts range.
To be powerful like a joule thief it needs the controlling switch and lasersaber found a way to switch it without the transistor.
Quote from: jeanna on March 24, 2010, 01:16:25 PM
jeanna
edit
I guess what I think is the stubblefield coil really is a joule thief self contained.
It has the battery
the coil maybe centertapped??
the secondary
It even produces the pulses but they are in millivolts range.
To be powerful like a joule thief it needs the controlling switch and lasersaber found a way to switch it without the transistor.
I agree , it is a jt in its own wright , designed into a battery , how beautiful was that , simple yet complex .
Not only the the value of the parts but crucial location , a work of art !
I am so pleased by all this , now 2 read switch to use both East and West kicks .
Better if the kick permit no rotor just the reed on the core , or some type of relay arrangements.
I may not have read all the tread , but if you look at the post i made in this tread i was on the button .
Keep the good work everyone .
Mark
Its amazing what occurs in an egoless dialogue.
Almost as though clarity is a natural result during such an exchange.
Like the ether contributing to the cause in an overunity device.
Riveting discussion...please continue, thanks.
Regards...
Thanks Laser for that picture explanation. I thought so that it is a bifilar winding. :)
Yes, Stubblefield's coils are bifilar, just like the JT circuits. These are related in ways we might not even know yet.
Bill
lasersaber you are doing very good work. thanks for sharing.
wintermuteai1 if you are wanting to know if the voltage will double by shorting the inter and outer wires. no it will not, shorting those wires only makes an electromagnet. i hope this answers your questions.
jeanna i am going to rewind the secondary using smaller wire (mag wire). yes the bridge rectifier is the way to go. you really dont know how many times i have wished i had a scope.
i think at this point for my small coil i will build a charge pump and give that a try. to see if i can get any usable voltage. also i may need to invest in a new meter. mine was freeking out last night and that meens i have blown something inside of it. i am only on my 6th or 7th meter. i was spiking my coil and checking amp output and i left it connected to long. but my last reading was 267.4 mamps. i was spiking the coil with a smaller version of the imhotep relay charger. with the relay charger i can spike it for 24 hours using 4 volts or less on battery power
Quote from: Pardon on March 25, 2010, 12:03:03 AM
...
jeanna i am going to rewind the secondary using smaller wire (mag wire). yes the bridge rectifier is the way to go. you really dont know how many times i have wished i had a scope.
i think at this point for my small coil i will build a charge pump and give that a try. to see if i can get any usable voltage. also i may need to invest in a new meter. mine was freeking out last night and that meens i have blown something inside of it. i am only on my 6th or 7th meter. i was spiking my coil and checking amp output and i left it connected to long. but my last reading was 267.4 mamps. i was spiking the coil with a smaller version of the imhotep relay charger. with the relay charger i can spike it for 24 hours using 4 volts or less on battery power
267.4mA is pretty darn good, and 24 hours is great. How noisy is the smaller version of the imhotep charger?
I got a hand held scope from velleman for $190.00.
It works very well.
I would stay away from using any meter with the spark discharges from the imhotep or tesla disruptive discharges.
I am sure they are too much and too wild for transistors and IC's.
I have seen where lidmotor uses a filament bulb to show that there is a certain amount of mA and to keep the rest of the components safe at the same time.
I am sorry I don't have a link exactly.
----
@all,
I just ordered some of that cotton covered copper wire!!!
Also today, I used the reed switch which is part of the radio shack reed relay. I checked it with the resistance part of my meter, and when a snake egg magnet OR a neo magnet got to within an inch of the reed switch the meter registered 0.3 ohms... so, this means the switch was thrown at about an inch.
Now, I just need to make the little motor.
Also,
I got notice that the "simple motor" has been shipped so hopefully it will give me the motor set-up and I can substitute a NS coil for the one in the kit.
This seems to be the best way for me, since I do not own a lathe or a drill press or a table saw.
thank you,
jeanna
@IotaYodi,
Very true
Quote from: IotaYodi on March 24, 2010, 12:58:40 PM
Standard "hot" A for sure. But if the NS coil is using "cold" electricity as some suspect it may be possible to run larger currents in smaller wires without heating up the wires. Wont know that till there is a working prototype. It would be outstanding if we could even get a JT to work with it. Remote locations could have at least light then.
I havent seen "cold" electricity, that dosent mean it's not there, I hope it is, then we can take a look at it working.
I have heard "cold" power gets its name from the frost which forms on devices under a load, I'm eager to see this one day :D
jim
Floyd Sweets work verified cold electricity. He was a brilliant electrical engineer and a graduate of MIT. He created the Vta also known as the Phase-Conjugated Vacuum Triode
"Phase-Conjugated Vacuum Triode. This device produces negative energy which
is the reverse of the conventional positive energy generated by all devices in service today. The arc generated by a short-circuit in a negative energy system is excessively bright and cold,producing barely an audible hiss with no explosive force. Melting of conductors does not occur and this type of negative current passes through the human body with only the feeling of a chill.
Conductors remain cool under load while only tiny cross-sectional areas of copper are required to convey many hundreds of watts of power. Although all of this seems nearly unbelievable,only what has been demonstrated in the laboratory has been described in this paper. The source of energy is unlimited,the virtual vacuum of space itself structured by a motional
electromagnetic field is the powerhouse"
Quote from: IotaYodi on March 25, 2010, 10:55:04 AM
Floyd Sweets work verified cold electricity. He was a brilliant electrical engineer and a graduate of MIT. He created the Vta also known as the Phase-Conjugated Vacuum Triode
"Phase-Conjugated Vacuum Triode. This device produces negative A which is the reverse of the conventional positive energy generated by all devices in service today. The arc generated by a short-circuit in a negative energy system is excessively bright and cold,producing barely an audible hiss with no explosive force. ... Conductors remain cool under load while only tiny cross-sectional areas of copper are required to convey many hundreds of watts of power. ...
Question?
Could this aspect of electrical physics be related to the "Tesla Hairpin" circuit videos?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXLnAtBqMzY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvCZG5ccPsk&feature=related
--Lee
QuoteCould this aspect of electrical physics
be related to the "Tesla Hairpin"
Seems that it would have to be. Quite sure Sweet studied Teslas work.
Has anyone taken a clamp meter and put it on these Wires? A normal incandescent 100 watt bulb is drawing about .8 amps.
[jeanna
267.4mA is pretty darn good, and 24 hours is great. How noisy is the smaller version of the imhotep charger?
Also today, I used the reed switch which is part of the radio shack reed relay. ]
do you remember if that reed switch was the 12 volt one or the 5 volt one.
my small version makes some noise but if i keep it hanging in the air it's not bad at all. i use the model 275-240 5vdc/1a micro relay from radio shack. that and 1 diode is all that is needed to make a real nice high voltage pulser. that will charge batteries plus it will run off a small solar cell.
by accident i just found something interesting. when i short the 5 and 6 the voltage gos down and not shorted the voltage slowly go's back up. but if i check the coil for shorts using the 200 scale and then switch to checking volts the voltage is about double the normal voltage and slowly go's back down to normal. and i am testing with a new meter i brought home from work.
also i am going to be contacting the local recyclers to find out if i can get iron wire from them. in long lengths. right now they only supply me with 22 foot lengths which is why my coil is small.
Dennis
Quote from: Pardon on March 25, 2010, 11:52:04 PM
do you remember if that reed switch was the 12 volt one or the 5 volt one.
Yes, it is the 5v reed relay 275-232. I was only using the reed part and left the coil untouched when I was testing.
Quotethat and 1 diode is all that is needed to make a real nice high voltage pulser. that will charge batteries plus it will run off a small solar cell.
And where is the diode?
Quoteby accident i just found something interesting. when i short the 5 and 6 the voltage gos down and not shorted the voltage slowly go's back up. but if i check the coil for shorts using the 200 scale and then switch to checking volts the voltage is about double the normal voltage and slowly go's back down to normal. and i am testing with a new meter i brought home from work.
I don't understand.
Where are the probes connected when the voltage goes down?
Well, maybe I do understand...
I just tried doing what you are mentioning and I stuck the reed switch across the 10's so one each inner cu and fe wires (for the newcomers)
Then I shorted the 5,6 (outer cu and fe wires).
I put one dmm probe on the shorted 5,6 and one probe on the Fe 10 side of the reed switch.
Then I moved a magnet near to it.
It makes sense, the voltage went down as the magnet got near and closed the switch making it all one wire with a small amount of resistance.
When I moved the magnet away it restored to the 161mv it started at.
This means the reed switch will indeed work. This is coil #9 which has a secondary. When I can make a rotor for the magnets, this will work as it should.
(Oh thank you lasersaber!!)
Quotealso i am going to be contacting the local recyclers to find out if i can get iron wire from them. in long lengths. right now they only supply me with 22 foot lengths which is why my coil is small.
I hope they can. That would be cool to get recycled wire.
Did you get some of that wire from wire.co.uk?
Do you need that link again?
---
In the joule thief, the pos of the battery is connected to the twisted wires that are the beginning of one and the end of the other (Cu 5 + Fe 10).
But this is its own battery so the pos charge is not coming into the joined wires from an outside source, and which way the electricity flows is dependent on which wires are connected.
however,
The secondary should do the same thing as any secondary if the change is fast enough.
My scope on the same connections showed nothing at all. Maybe because it is hard to hold it precisely, but I saw nothing at all.
I doubt my simple motor will be here as soon as tomorrow, so I will need to be patient over the weekend!!
I could try the roller skate wheel I was preparing for the bedini motor... ;)
jeanna
Quote from: IotaYodi on March 25, 2010, 05:57:50 PM
Seems that it would have to be. Quite sure Sweet studied Teslas work.
Has anyone taken a clamp meter and put it on these Wires? A normal incandescent 100 watt bulb is drawing about .8 amps.
The video was having a halogen lamp used. Radio Shack sells both 120V and 12V models. They may power hogs in terms of current? I'm not sure. A clamp meter would say something about power generated, though, I agree.
--Lee
i did more testing today and here is what was making my voltage double. it seems that my digital meters when testing ohm's on the 200 scale add +3.00 volts to what i am testing. but the meters only add voltage on the 200 scale. using 2 meters i connect to the 5 and 6 wires and test for volts on 1 meter and ohm's on the other meter. i can then read 2 plus volts. then disconnect the ohm meter and the voltage will go down slowly. so the meter is what is raising my voltage. shoot i thought i found something new.
the iron wire in my coil came from the recyclers. but it is new wire not used ever. they supply me with 22 foot lengths. they are used to make bales of used paper that weight about 500 lbs or more.
i will draw the circuit and up load it tomarrow for the relay pulser. it is so easy to build. it does not have a neon because it will not light because of the low voltage used. I do know that i can light a 110 volt led night light (not bright) with it but i will light. also i will try and light a string of led's and let you know if that works
Dennis
@all,
I decided today I was going to make my first stubblefield coil, ........ at long last lol.
I have only got to making the A ends, but I have discribed it with photos.
2421 = Smaller of the two holesaws cutting out the second A disk.
2422 = Cut half way down, then rase the cutter.
2423 = Turn the board over, position the centering drill over the hole which is the center of the "disk"
2424 = Start cutting again, until the hole saw makes it "through" to the other side
2425 = Rase the hole saw and gently remove your stubblefield disk
2426 = I made two different size disks, they are 3 and 1/4" X 3/4" and the other two disks are 4 and 1/8"
2427 = Boar out the centering hole to the size of the iron rod. In my case I'm using threaded rod.
2428 = What "she" looks like, except there are no nuts, got to go to town next week and buy them.
jim
@All,
Contuining one here, I didn't want to overburden my ISP lol.
2426 and 2427 and 2428
Now I have to put it aside until next week when I go to town and buy the nuts.
jim
i will half to try it again
[A author=Pardon link=topic=3500.msg234998#msg234998 date=1269743439]
i will half to try it again
[/quote]
hello @all.
i've read this thread for a while and build an earthbattery with
2 simple CU-Pipes with a diameter of 22mm and a lenght of 1.50m and some zinc Pipes (diameter 25mm and a lenght of 0,5 m)
I get 0,92 V at 0,040 A.
The Amps go fast down to 0,005 A if I test ist with my meter.
It looks for me like a capacitator.
How much Amps did you get from your earthbattery? And what is your setup?
Peter
Hello pardon,
I've see this schemantic of a youle thief device on youtube.
I rebuild it with a BC 337 Transistor and a handmade coil (primary 12 turns, secondary 30 turns)
It starts to pulse at 0,8V from an old Mignon battery.
I build it without the ignition coil and get more then 12 V DC
Peter
@padda,
Welcome to the forum peter. :)
Quote from: pedda on March 28, 2010, 08:44:20 AM
hello @all.
i've read this thread for a while and build an earthbattery with
2 simple CU-Pipes with a diameter of 22mm and a lenght of 1.50m and some zinc Pipes (diameter 25mm and a lenght of 0,5 m)
I get 0,92 V at 0,040 A.
The Amps go fast down to 0,005 A if I test ist with my meter.
It looks for me like a capacitator.
How much Amps did you get from your earth battery? And what is your setup?
Peter
No it's not a capacitor, it gives the impression of one because of its extreamly low output, so any "load" on the output makes it drop so quickly.
Nice to know you have read through the forum, well done. ;D
You won't get too much volts or curent out of just 2 pipes, if you want to increase voltage and current you will need to make many many copper pipes, then connect them in series for voltage.
Place your copper pipe towards North, and the zink pipe to South.
If you want voltage and current, then you could connect several into series and parallel.
You will need to insulate the outside of each copper pipe, and also seal up the bottom of the pipe. I used electrical insulating tape for this.
The highest voltage I got was 66volts open circuit voltage, using 83 copper pipes about 7 inches long, filled them with dirt, then put a zinc coated 4 inch nail as the center electrode. These were all connected in series.
I have had it arranged in a series parallel connection ever since that first week.
I was checking it just yesterday, it is still working after a year, but is much reduced in voltage. I pulled out the zinc nails in 7 cells, they are now corroded and rusty, so there is a galvanic reaction with them, not to worry, it lit a white LED for a year non stop, so I'm not complaining.
So Peter, if you want to make Stubblefield coils, then stick around here with us all here.
jim
Hello Jim
Quote from: electricme on March 28, 2010, 09:16:10 AM
@padda,
Welcome to the forum peter. :)
I've read the forum for over 3 years.....
Quote
If you want voltage and current, then you could connect several into series and parallel.
hmm. Connect in series don't work for me. Parallel works and the amperage goes up.
Is there a hint to do it serial
Quote
You will need to insulate the outside of each copper pipe, and also A up the bottom of the pipe. I used electrical insulating tape for this.
I do it with PE-foly, but i think, there is no difference if I do it with or without insulator
Quote
The highest voltage I got was 66volts open circuit voltage, using 83 copper pipes about 7 inches long, filled them with dirt, then put a zinc coated 4 inch nail as the center electrode. These were all connected in series.
great! I put more copper pipes in the ground.
Peter
To Jim (electricme) and all Stubblefield coil builders!
I looked at the photos of your new coil attempt (the cut out disks) and the following came to my mind (see also the attached picture which I fabricated with information I got from you lately, thank you very much again):
From the ratio of 1 / 2,4 (radius / height) I calculated
radius 3 1/4" --> height 7 3/4 " (needs 1650 feet of wire for the primary)
radius 4 1/8" --> height 10" (even more wire, it scares me to calculate the length of the wires)
To pedda !
As I see it, the best coil in this subject (thread) is the one from LaserSaber (go back to 213 and look at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcjxA7bYUp0). But still, it would not drive a Joule Thief and the coil is still to small judged from the photos in the attached picture.
Many things are unknown, specially the answer to the questions "how to make a Stubblefield coil work" and "what to do with a secondary"? See my recent posts where I attempt to come up with the right dimension of a Stubblefield primary coil. I have yet now clue about the dimensions of a secondary besides the secondary in the photo with the Stubblefield coils on the couch.
Many speculate that a Stubblefield coil is not used as a galvanic battery but like a plug into the earth, but do not ask me what that should mean.
Try that for a start: http://www.hbci.com/~wenonah/history/nathan-s.htm
A big problem when experimenting with Stubblefield coils is the huge amount of wire necessary to build one as big as I estimate they have to be (at least a diameter of 80 mm ~ 3 1/4" and a height of 190 mm ~ 7 3/4", but even bigger would be better according to what I guess). We are talking of about 500 meters ~ 1650 feet of wire and more.
To say it in one phrase: nobody has built a Stubblefield coil that works as reported in vague stories from Stubblefields time and it is not known how to connect the ends of the primary and the ends of a secondary in order to get some usefull electricity out of such a coil.
But that should not keep you from trying. (Small coils are a waste of time).
Greetings, Conrad
Quote from: conradelektro on March 28, 2010, 09:40:46 AM
As I see it, the best coil in this subject (thread) is the one from LaserSaber (go back to 213 and look at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcjxA7bYUp0). But still, it would not drive a Joule Thief and the coil is still to small judged from the photos in the attached picture.
I think, that JT needs DC-Voltage. But the earth current is AC. So the setup need diodes to make DC.
greetings
Peter
QuoteI think, that JT needs DC-Voltage. But the earth current is AC
The telluric currents are pulsed dc. The jt needs steady dc.
As it was mentioned a while back, a full bridge rectifier should be used to measure the output of the coil.
The calculations for the number of turns in the picture above are for #18 wire. A larger sized wire will reduce the amount of turns. I cant tell if the coil on the left has wire or not on it. Even so it looks like a large core.
Pirates earth battery scope shot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjBAU4HAMfs
Jennas earthquake scope readings.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJoPspdYyYU
Jennas NS coil scope shots.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfwMFrqGtaE&feature=related
One of the reasons I have waited,other than monetary, to build an NS coil is the statement by NS granddaughter on the use of pitchblende. NS did this in different locations and it worked though. If he didn't prepare the ground thats a plus. Another factor to consider is Radon which is radioactive also. Radon is a decay product of uranium, which is relatively common in the Earth's crust, but generally concentrated in ore-bearing rocks scattered around the world. Soils containing granite or shale have a higher concentration of uranium. NS lived in such an area.
Now Im wondering if it could be wired up like a Scalar coil.
Planning to build a Stubblefield coil, I came up with the core depicted in the attached drawing.
The idea is to use a 0,9 mm galvanised iron wire for winding the primary and for constructing the core.
Most people read from the Stubblefield patent that the iron core should also be insulated by a layer of cotton, the same cotton used to separate the many winding-layers of the primary. This gave me the idea to use a cotton string to hold the many rods of the core together (a fastening means and an insulation).
Greetings, Conrad
@lasersaber
Hi great work again , i was wondering if you used one pair to turn the motor rotor , and the other one seem to act like a secondary on a transformer.
Could you put a bridge and charge a cap from that loose coil , will it stop the motor?
I was wondering if you tried it ?
Mark
I made a reed switch activated motor today.
I thought you would all like to see it in action.
It was very easy to build .
the kit came from
http://www.simplemotor.com/rsmotor.htm (http://www.simplemotor.com/rsmotor.htm)
here is the vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bt15wCEW6Hs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bt15wCEW6Hs)
jeanna
Jeanna:
Excellent video!
I really like the use of PVC in your device. Now you have a reed switch running, so, there is no stopping you.
Bill
@Jeanna,
I have just been reading through theforum pages and although I have seen this before, I notice no one has picked up on it and replied to it.
Quote from: jeanna on March 24, 2010, 01:16:25 PM
OK
You won't be able to get a joule thief to work with it because a joule thief needs a steady supply not a pulsed one.
thank you,
jeanna
Thats right, the Joule Thief needs a steady supply, so on the output which is pulced, you need to smooth it out, theres a couple of ways to do it.
Solder one or a number of electrolytics accross the output to smooth out the pulces so there is steady DC output.
Use very low values, nothing high, eg 47uf16v then try and feed it to the JT.
Another way is to put another DC cell across the output, it should get charged at the same time it can be sauced as a DC supply.
Or combine both together, caps and battery.
jim
Quote from: Pirate88179 on April 07, 2010, 02:27:04 AM
Jeanna:
Excellent video!
I really like the use of PVC in your device. Now you have a reed switch running, so, there is no stopping you.
Bill
Thanks, Bill
Yup,
The next thing I want to do is wrap a secondary around it and look at it with the scope.
This will be run by the 1.2v battery and not a self created galvanism, but it will show me what o expect from the secondary.
I can't ever keep my focus on counting turns, or rows, but I think there were at lease 60 turns and 6 to 8 rows on this one I made yesterday. so, it will give me an idea.
@jim,
Hi... nice to see you again!
Thanks for that info.
Sharing good info is always a plus for every one.
Thank you,
jeanna
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tDX85ZK14Q&playnext_from=TL&videos=_7BN2CF9X1c&feature=rec-rn-2r-6-HM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tDX85ZK14Q&playnext_from=TL&videos=_7BN2CF9X1c&feature=rec-rn-2r-6-HM)
Check out this MIT early wireless telegraph demonstration. A solenoid within a solenoid and 2 spark gaps powered by 12 volts. The 2nd spark gap has a spark of about 9" long! This could easily be related to the NS coil and make/break idea as it was just about in the same time period.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on April 07, 2010, 03:58:54 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tDX85ZK14Q&playnext_from=TL&videos=_7BN2CF9X1c&feature=rec-rn-2r-6-HM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tDX85ZK14Q&playnext_from=TL&videos=_7BN2CF9X1c&feature=rec-rn-2r-6-HM)
Check out this MIT early wireless telegraph demonstration. A solenoid within a solenoid and 2 spark gaps powered by 12 volts. The 2nd spark gap has a spark of about 9" long! This could easily be related to the NS coil and make/break idea as it was just about in the same time period.
Bill
Lessee 90,000 volts for each 1.7 inches. .....
---------
I agree.
This is kind of what I was thinking when I said Stubblefield used the inside of that silver globe to catch a brief spark then let it go. I didn't realize then that the spark was unlikely to let go once it connected.
---
I just made a 20T secondary for the coil and got 2.9v in spikes from it. (That's with 1.2v input from the battery.)
I cannot get the frequency on this for some reason. The scope shows the one spike at the left edge of the screen and moving the screen doesn't move the spike, so it is there but I don't know the frequency.
I would like to make this secondary coil connect like a center tap... like a jtc, but since I cannot take any part of it down, this will make it a slow going.
Hopefully I can find a stubblefield that fits near enough to run the motor and switch.
More later!
jeanna
Well, this is too bad, but it does explain some things.
I do not have one stubblefield coil built on soft iron.
Oh maybe one, I will check the plumbing pipe one... later, because it is hollow
Yesterday in order to check if the coil was working the instructions told me to connect a battery to the ends of my coil and see if it picks up a paperclip, then of course, I knew it had to drop it when the battery was away, right?
It was fine yesterday , of course.
I didn't have a paper clip so I used an empty ferrite toroid that was on the table since I know it is attracted to a magnet.
I tested my coils today, and the hardware store bolts held the toroid when the battery was removed, and so did the big spike nails.
In fact the big spike nails didn't need me to use the battery, they just held.
I am reminded of those compass tests I did early on.
Once the stubblefield coil got going it magnetized my cores and they all stayed magnetized!
It is too bad I have all those coils made on the wrong substance, but...I am glad it has been a couple of years.
Back to GO!
jeanna
Jeanna:
One thing Jim and I were discussing a while ago was how to determine "soft iron". We figured that it would not be too hard to test various materials by winding a few turns of insulated copper wire around them and doing the same sort of test that you have done. The big difference here is that you will not have already wound all that wire on your NS coil yet. 5 or six turns of wire and run by a 9 volt will tell you if it holds magnetism or not. Might even work with an AA I am not sure.
I wish we could find some decently priced ferrite rods of suitable size as I am convinced that they would work well for us just like on our toroids with our JTs.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on April 07, 2010, 03:58:54 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tDX85ZK14Q&playnext_from=TL&videos=_7BN2CF9X1c&feature=rec-rn-2r-6-HM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tDX85ZK14Q&playnext_from=TL&videos=_7BN2CF9X1c&feature=rec-rn-2r-6-HM)
Check out this MIT early wireless telegraph demonstration. A solenoid within a solenoid and 2 spark gaps powered by 12 volts. The 2nd spark gap has a spark of about 9" long! This could easily be related to the NS coil and make/break idea as it was just about in the same time period.
Bill
Some time ago I was attracted to Stubblefield photos with rods sticking out of the ground from a thread on this site.
It looked like there are ringer bells at the top, then a coil, then another bell. The kind of bell you'd see on an old wooden
wall phone or candle stick ringer box. However, those old phones had the cranks. Haven't found any cranks on any
Stubblefield phones.
Take care.
nap
Bill
I remember now, that Hans told us that an antenna would work.
I bought a thrift store radio with an antenna shortly after that.
But, I never made a NS coil with it. I made one with a straw, and I think the antenna will fit.
Maybe I can find all these things.
It has been 2 years since we did that.
But, my kit came with a nail which was soft iron.
We both used nails in our bedini cores.
I wonder if the hardware store would mind...
Welding rods are pretty thin, but so is that nail/
I am thinking out loud here. I guess I can use one of these welding rods.
I could buy some without the borax too.
That would be easier than chipping it off.
I'll go put one out in the rain. Maybe that will work.
I did get some of that cotton covered wire.
I am sooo glad the wire in this reed switch motor is the same gauge as the cotton covered wire I bought.
Maybe it is time to read the patent again.
jeanna
Hey I found some old iron bolts on ebay if anyone is interested:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Lot-22-Vintage-Black-Iron-Carriage-Bolts_W0QQitemZ130303984925QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Tool_Work_Holding?hash=item1e56b9051d
They look like they would be good to use as coil cores...
Doug
From my research on Soft iron.
"The "soft iron" variety is almost pure iron, with up to 10% silicon. The 1018 has been the most common throughout the world."
The bolt that NS used was problably the same or close to it.
I found that the 1018 has the lowest amounts of other materiels.
http://www.onlinemetals.com/alloycat.cfm?alloy=1018
I went to my local machine shop but he didnt know the specs on soft iron. He gave me a 3/4 inch foot long piece and a short 4 inch piece to try out. I put the short piece on 2 Microwave toroidal magnets over night. Took it it off and it wouldnt even pick up a tiny steel washer. I dont know if this was 1018 or not. I then put galvanized iron wire on the magnets and it did pick up the washer a little before it demagnetized in a few seconds.
Heres something I did playing around with the 3/4" 4 inch piece of steel. I took the 2 toroidal magnets and put the 4 inch rod through them. I then took 2 C battery's and put one on each end of the bar. Put my meter on it and got 3 volts. One battery alone with the magnets shows the 1.5 volts. Without the magnets I didnt get any voltage. I thought that was interesting.
Pulsed Dc FYI
As soon as you add inductance to a pulsed DC circuit you almost always end up with some current of the opposite polarity due to the flyback effect of the collapsing field.
One should also note that the flyback effect does occur if you DC pulse a transformer, you will end up with some AC current.
The soft iron cores I used were from : http://sargentwelch.com/soft-iron-rod/p/IG0038157/
13mm diameter x 15cm long
They seem to work fine.
I now have my secondary coil working and lighting LEDs. I will post a video soon
Here is the video of the new coil: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuQGuXJ02fo
Quote from: lasersaber on April 11, 2010, 10:00:25 AM
Here is the video of the new coil: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuQGuXJ02fo
Congratulations...very well done!
It would be interesting to see for how long it will run, before needing to be moistened again.
It will also be interesting if more power is garnered by placing it into the ground.
Could you measure the voltage and current also, pls?
Thanks and really, an impressive build.
Cheers,
Bruce
Bravo!
Well done.
I got my wire, and I am ready to make this too.
Do you have a scope and can you say that the alu wire works better?
It would sure be nice to use aluminum instead of iron if it really is better.
But, you did make the one with iron, and I wonder if that works at all?
Or, is that still unfinished?
You have really done a great service to the world.
Thank you for sharing it!
jeanna
To LaseSaber !
Congratulations, amazing! Great videos.
Because it will be a bit difficult to have your reed switch and your disk with the four magnets under ground, I attach a drawing showing how one might do it with a solenoid above ground.
But I think you will have thought about that yourself. The trick with the solenoid can of course be tested with everything still above ground.
I would use very heavy speaker wire from the primary in the ground to the solenoid and from the reed switch back to the primary in the ground to avoid losses.
Greetings, Conrad
Conrad,
I think the inner copper and aluminum wires are connected and the outer wires are NOT.
Lasersaber said the connections worked exactly as Nathan Stubblefield said they would, so I think the names on the drawing are not exactly correct.??
Also,
NS said the other wires were to be left open. (the 10's or outer ones.)
Nice drawing, btw.
thank you,
jeanna
Great! Now we have a device that generates electric current from thin air, presumably without consuming any of its parts!
In a cubic meter you can put at least 18 of these coils. How many volts and amps 18 of these coils can generate if connected in series and/or paralel?
Quote from: jeanna on April 07, 2010, 02:49:44 PM
Thanks, Bill
Yup,
The next thing I want to do is wrap a secondary around it and look at it with the scope.
This will be run by the 1.2v battery and not a self created galvanism, but it will show me what to expect from the secondary.
...
jeanna
And here is a very short video showing the led lighting from the secondary of the reed switch motor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lspCPpbr88 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lspCPpbr88)
This is certainly not as exciting as lasersaber's video, but it is helping me to understand the geometry of the thing. :D
The light is flashing but way faster than this video would make you think.
jeanna
Quote from: Rapadura on April 11, 2010, 07:53:11 PM
Great! Now we have a device that generates electric current from thin air, presumably without consuming any of its parts!
In a cubic meter you can put at least 18 of these coils. How many volts and amps 18 of these coils can generate if connected in series and/or paralel?
Ahh...best to test the "without consuming any of it's parts" first before presuming anything...IMHO
To Jeanna: thank you for your explanation of the primary wire end connections. May be our Stubblefield master replicator, LaserSaber, can shed light on this toppic from his experience?
To all and Bruce_TPU: in case one considers the functioning of a Stubblefield coil as being a galvanic reaction, the wires of the primary will indeed be consumed slowly (by galvanic corrosion). And the anodic index of the metals used for the primary will play a role.
See: http://www.engineersedge.com/galvanic_capatability.htm
From the anodic index one sees that gold wire (instead of copper) and beryllium wire (instead of iron) would be the best possible choice (for very rich experimenters), the anodic difference would be 1,85 Volt.
Aluminium wire and copper wire have an anodic differenc of 0,75 - 0,35 = 0,4 Volt.
Iron wire and copper wire: 0,85 - 0,35 = 0,5 Volt
Zinc plated wire and copper wire: 1,25 - 0,35 = 0,9 Volt
It seems that gold plated wire and zinc plated wire (1,25 Volt) would be a feasible choice for professional experimenters with a budget.
Of course all these speculations are mute in case the Stubblefield coil works in a very different way (not a galvanic reaction).
Greetings, Conrad (a very unprofessional experimenter with a limited budget)
P.S. I got sidetracked by the Joule Thief and its derivatives. It is nice when LEDs and light tubes flare. One has the impression of having achieved something. It also costs rather little to experiment with Joule Thieves (although a big coil for a GBluer-Slayer-Exciter needs 200 meters of thin enameled wire).
Testing it with aluminum is a good idea. You may or may not get higher voltage spikes. The resistance is less with the aluminum wire thus better current flow,but the intensity of the magnetic field and its collapse as a whole will diminish without the iron wire on the "primary"coil. Adding the "3rd" coil around the basic primary coil using aluminum wire may get better results. Adding an extra iron wire on the "primary" making it tri filar may give you even more force on the copper.
Dont forget the vertical electrostatic potential he used with the trees and what not. Every meter is another 100 electrostatic volts.
I do believe I found a way to test "soft" iron cores with an old color tv or monitor. Place the iron on a strong magnet for awhile or make an electromagnet then put it up against the screen. It seems to work well. I tried a 3/4 inch rod and it showed nothing,yet a piece of galvanized iron wire and another steel rod did.
Nice work Laser!
Hi all.
I've been lurking and reading...and reading...and reading...for the past several weeks. Good stuff here.
I have been very interested in induction coils for quite some time. About 18 years ago, I obtained a reprint of a book from 1909 "Design and Construction of Induction Coils". I have always wanted to build one, but never got around to it...until I came across the Stubblefield coil.
Anyway, a couple things I wanted to point out...
1) That "soft iron rod" posted by lasersaber will likely give the best results. I've also seen these on eBay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300376782398 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300376782398)). This posting has a nice description.
2) As for using a less costly soft iron core, my period book recommends the method used by Conrad for larger coils (like Bill's MIT coil). For coils producing up to 4" sparks, an iron bolt is deemed sufficient. That said, both of those could be improved by further annealing the iron. Simple to do: place the bolt or wire in a steel water pipe and cap the ends - loosely. Place this in your BBQ on a bed of hot coals and cover it with more coals. Let the pipe and it's contents reach a cherry red color, and then slowly cool. Mine took about 12 hours before I could hold it.
3) How this next part relates to the NS coil remains to be seen. But for your standard induction coils, the power coming from the secondary "is directly proportional to the number of turns on the primary and secondary...thus, if there are 10 turns on the primary and 1000 on the secondary, there will be 100 times as high an electromotive force developed on the secondary as that employed in energizing the primary, while the amperage will also be proportionately reduced."
Darryl
Hi Darryl,
Welcome to this stubblefield makers group!
I want to thank you for that description on annealing the iron.
I took a metals class a couple of years ago and I thought that simply heating it like this would do, but I was never sure, so I really appreciate the confirmation.
I think it is the most important piece we all missed.
(and... since it is the very beginning of a new one, I was waiting for assurance that what I start with is the right thing.)
Since lasersaber has made a successful one, my plan is to copy/replicate his coil as much as I can.
I already have 13 that don't quite work and mostly that is because the core gets and stays magnetized.
Lasersaber found a great source for the wire, and I recommend that too.
So, welcome, and please keep us posted!
thank you,
jeanna
Thanks Jeanna.
Out of curiosity, how much is that wire after currency conversion and shipping? I emailed the company for information, but never got a reply. I ended up getting some glass insulated wire of ebay. Just got it today and wound my first layer. The insulation is pretty brittle and I ended up with a short, so I may end up going with the wire from the UK after all.
Darryl
Yes, most wire is varnished and not bare as well.
I got 3 rolls because I want to make 2 coils that match each other.
I paid $40 or 50 I think after the conversion.
I chose royal mail int'l and it came in just under a week so I recommend that because that part was very reasonable.
You just need to be there to sign for it.
I got the .51mm which should be like the 24gauge, and it looks pretty thin.
I am thinking I will order some fatter wire later on.
jeanna
Soft iron is a general term for high iron content. It also has large eddy currents. Using iron with silicone reduces the eddy currents. The rod on ebay will work just because of high iron content but whats the carbon content etc: Ive ordered 2 different types of iron cores. The 1018 is the most common in the world and probably is what NS had in his bolt.
Chemistry information for alloy 1018 Carbon
Element Percentage
C 0.14 - 0.2
Fe 98.81 - 99.26
Mn 0.6 - 0.9
P 0.04 max
S 0.05 m
Im wondering what the copper would do with a36 with this coil.
Chemistry information for alloy A36 Mild Steel
Element Percentage
C 0.26
Cu 0.2
Fe 99
Mn 0.75
P 0.04 max
S 0.05 max
The 4130 would even be better with its silicone content which I will try out too.
Chemistry information for alloy 4130 Carbon
Element Percentage
C 0.28 - 0.33
Cr 0.8 - 1.1
Fe 97.3 - 98.22
Mn 0.4 - 0.6
Mo 0.15 - 0.25
P 0.035 max
S 0.04 max
Si 0.15 - 0.35
http://www.onlinemetals.com/index.cfm
Right now I have some 3/4 inch iron rod from the local machine shop that looks good but dont the number. Putting it on some strong toroid magnets it showed nothing on monitor test. I then made an electromagnet with a 1 foot piece with a 12 volt high amp car battery using #12 wire for about ten seconds, which is when it started smoking. A very strong magnet and field was made. It was about a foot from the monitor and made quite an impression on it. Then I disconnected it and put it up to the monitor and it showed very little remanence. Very high iron content indeed.
I plan on using #14 cotton wire from a company in the states. A 500 foot roll would be more expensive to ship from outside the states. I planned on buying the galvanized iron wire from tractor supply unless some knows a better place with higher iron content. As has been stated before, the bigger the wire and amount of turns the more power.
Info for those using reed switches.
http://www.meder.com/fileadmin/meder/pdf/en/Parameters_of_Reed_Switch.pdf
From reading this it seems a reed switch should be kept at a distance from the strong magnetic field of the coil?
@IotaYodi
Can you share the contact info for the company stateside that carries cotton-covered wire? I've spent hours searching, but haven't found anything worthwhile.
Thanks
Darryl
@hoverdj
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8968.msg234554#msg234554
http://brillman.com/index.php?cPath=23_43_48_69&osCsid=sm9rfpkqbr72ldhickv0ova131
delete post
@all
I was thinking that most solenoid arms would do great , i have some rod from electromagnets that could do great also .
Also some observation of the patent and winding technique , the way it is tough in the patent is to increase surface area for a stronger battery , now the question is do we really need that many turns , because it would be simpler to use copper and alu or iron sheet with a cotton divider ..
I know some see some other source for the power but if you refer to the patent the word galvanic is mentioned quite often , 6 times in 2 paragraph ...
A meter will pickup static electricity ...
What did the jt show us the minimal limit of the battery is only limited by the circuits transistor , the output is over all the same ... With the reed switch the minimum got way lower .
Now also the physical limits of the rotor is the issue for real high freq and hysteresis curve of the core , but i think if the 2 side of the kick could get it to go faster , the number of magnets on the rotor will also permit higher freq the rotor physical limits are achieved .
Also the core configuration is not that great for secondary because it is so far from the core , the optimal distance for a powered coil is irrelevant but it is not the case for pickup coil , i could see tow futures for this devise first using a square core the ns coil on one side the pickup coil on the other side with one corner of the square open for the rotor .
Or making four of them putting them in a cross design with a big rotor with 2 rows of magnets one for each end of the coils , gathering both side of the ns coil for momentum on the rotor , this would mean that we could put more weight on the rotor and get help from inertia and sentrifusional effect , that motor could most likely run a generator ...
Any way those are my 2 cents , keep the great work everyone .
Mark
What happened to lasersaber? I'm worried about his safety...
Don't worry, his personal information shows he was last on at: April 26, 2010, 04:14:17 AM
He probably just doesn't have anything useful to report.
Unless...the kidnappers are using his computer ?
Hi everybody
Iotta
Excuse me if I bug you too much with this one but , are you sure this wire is not enameled? and then covered with cotton?
I will appreciated your input, I'm outside of the states and be back in a long while so calling is rather difficult, also the brittish company won't ship out to my location.
I'll appreciate your help
Two weeks ago, lasersaber showed to us a coil that produces electric current from thin air, hopefully without consuming any of its parts (no galvanic reaction).
After that, he disapeared. Big oil got him?
Ok, so spun glass insulation, although water permeable, doesn't work well.
My coil specs:
Length: 6.5"
Core: 3/8" zinc bolt annealed in my BBQ
Iron wire gauge: 15
Copper wire gauge: 16, spun glass inulation
vdc: .45
mA: 6.5
Quote from: kukulcangod on April 26, 2010, 05:01:06 AM
Hi everybody
Iotta
Excuse me if I bug you too much with this one but , are you sure this wire is not enameled? and then covered with cotton?
I will appreciated your input, I'm outside of the states and be back in a long while so calling is rather difficult, also the brittish company won't ship out to my location.
I'll appreciate your help
--------------
OOPS! I missed noticing that you were asking Iotayodi about his wire source!But, I will leave my comment anyway since it might give someone some ideas.
---------------
Yes, it must be able to produce a small galvanic reaction. So, it must NOT be enamel coated.
Before Lasersaber showed us the uk wires company I had a plan for my next coil.
I planned to used the enamelled wire but remove the coating and wrap it in cotton for just the first row, and maybe also the last or outer row. I suspect this will give enough of the necessary galvanic start.
It is a bit tedious but it does work to wrap the copper with a thin strip of cotton or silk while you wind the bifilar.
But again, I confirm it must be uncoated copper wire.
I never checked the chinese. They may be willing to make this as we need it and send it to you.
-
@hoverdj
Wow 15 gauge iron and 16 g copper...Your fingers must be really glad you are finished with that one!!
QuoteOk, so spun glass insulation, although water permeable, doesn't work well.
What do you mean by not working so well?
Does it short?
You will only get about 0.3v from the galvanic reaction between iron and copper. The zinc bolt may be stronger galvanically, but that is not the point.
As long as you get something, you are good to go.
Set up a reed switch as lasersaber has done (or your own version of it) and when that is working then make a secondary and see what you get from that.
Lasersaber made some nice videos which should give you any instruction for that part.
I still need to anneal my iron stake.
BTW, I checked my zing bolts and they all held the magnetism pretty strongly after they were made into NS coils, so maybe the BBQ is not enough to change that metal...maybe the steel in a bolt is not mild enough.
jeanna
@kukulcangod:
QuoteExcuse me if I bug you too much
Only my wife bugs me! :)
No its not enameled. I was very specific in my email to them. If you order it just be specific.
Big difference in Dielectrics.
Dielectric of Cotton 1.3-1.4
Dielectric of Glass 3.7-10
Does anyone think pure cotton gauze would work? Seems like it would.
Those worried about the PTB and Lasersaber dont. Hes just using the old standard magnetic field to induce current. Nothing new.
The bolt NS used may have been galvanized but Im thinking the iron wire is the main source for the reaction. I guess a high iron core could be dipped and tried out to see if there is a big difference.
@jeanna: Check your PM.
Quote from: IotaYodi on April 26, 2010, 02:56:01 PM
No its not enameled. I was very specific in my email to them. If you order it just be specific.
Oh good. I didn't realize that.
Thanks for clearing this up.
Quote
Does anyone think pure cotton gauze would work? Seems like it would.
I tried it, but quickly gave up. It allowed the copper to touch the iron.
Quote
The bolt NS used may have been galvanized but I'm thinking the iron wire is the main source for the reaction. I guess a high iron core could be dipped and tried out to see if there is a big difference.
I do not believe NS ever indicated that there was zinc in his 'common carriage bolt'. I believe it was iron.
And I agree about the core being the most important element that we all missed.
Look at lasersaber!
He didn't even use iron wire for the bifilar!! I sure would smile if I got mine to spin that top.
------------------
BTW folks,
I found a matched pair of round wood pieces at the hardware store today. They are made of hardwood and designed to hold a closet rod. There is even a hole in the middle for the iron rod! $2.77 = cheaper than the hole saw needed to make them myself.
jeanna
QuoteI tried it, but quickly gave up. It allowed the copper to touch the iron.
I guess you would have to triple it or even more then. Thanks Jeanna!
Hi All,
I have been looking for a supplier of bare copper wire in A and I think I found one called TYCAN in Mittagong in New South Wales, if anyone wants to take a gander, look here http://www.tyree.com.au/tycan-australia.html
Sorry, this turned into a dead end, they stopped making bare copper wire 2 years ago, but if you go here http://www.tycab.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=120&Itemid=106 then you can see what shiny copper runs are like.
I don't know if they have a range of cotton insulation, but so far it dosent look likely.
I will ring them shortly and get back with more info on this.
EDIT been in touch with them, no they don't sell cotton covered copper wire, shucks.
Annealing Copper wire, or making it softer to use, I found a few good hints here http://cs.artjewelrymag.com/artcs/forums/p/7407/35343.aspx
They explain it in simple english, something I understand, lol.
Here is a site that sells cotton tape in various lengths and widths if one wanted to cover bare copper wire.
http://www.oba-ic.com.au/oba_Tapes_Non_Adhesive.html#tcot
jim
Jim:
Good to see you here. I hope you are well. Lasersaber's source seems to be pretty good in that it is cotton covered wire with no enamel or other insulation on it.
I hope to be able to acquire some one of these days.
Good to see you again Mate.
Bill
@ Jeanna
What I meant by "doesn't work well" is that there is no perceptible magnetic field generated when any of the wires are connected in any fashion. I attributed this to the glass covered wire, but that's probably not correct...too many other possibilities, one of which is all the rust on the iron wire I had at hand...didn't think it would matter, so I didn't clean it off.
I made a very simple winding jig to make the job easier. I'll post photos of it soon.
I came up with a mathematical formula for estimating the amount of wire needed for any given coil. This gives the total number of inches (Fe and Cu), so of course, divide the result by two to get the number of inches per wire. I'm also working on an Excel spreadsheet and will post that when finished.
Darryl
Before I constructed any of my NS coils I used a magnet to determine the iron content of the core. Now, as often happens, I learned that soft iron means that it will not hold a magnetic field, which is exactly what we look for in toroids in the JT topic.
This is why I now think that a core of ferrite will work even better than anything NS had at that time. The core needs to magnetize when energized but then quickly drop it to get the benefit of the spike. We on the JT topic know this is correct with our experiments over there.
I am looking for a ferrite core for my next NS coil.
Bill
@ Bill,
Thank you for the kind words.
Well, I gone and done it, made my stubblefield coil at loooooong last.
Theres 10 Layers of windings, consisting of 76 bifilar turns per layer.
So I gues there is 760 turns in total.
I didn't use any cotton covered copper wire.
Copper wire is just enameled copper wire, BUT I also used a plastic covered iron wire.
Anyway, it does react to body capacitance, but a funny thing happens with it.
I notice the MV builds up, then sometimes it reverses polarity.
Havent a clue whats hapenning here.
But I can hold a neo close to it and I can feel the neo vibrating ever so slightly
Below is my pride and joy lol.
QuoteI notice the MV builds up, then sometimes it reverses polarity.
Have any fluorescent lights? That would do it. Natural electrostatics in the air can build Mv but not as quick as a fluorescent ballast. The polarity may have changed if you moved the coil in a different orientation to the Earths magnetic field or an external field like house wiring or something magnetic.
QuoteI am looking for a ferrite core for my next NS coil
Do you know how big a difference there would be in the intensity of the magnetic field between the two? I see there is both hard and soft ferrite materials. Dont know enough about electronics as to which one to use. I would assume soft but I see different types made for different frequency's. This core may work better just because of the frequency's. The timing of the total field collapse may be able to be "tuned" to a faster rate using ferrite instead of iron. Without the proper "on" "off" timing of the Earths dc currents the coil would be just a doorstop as Jeanna described it. If you could reverse the polarity every cycle on the core then that would stop the permanent or remanence magnetization on the core which hinders the collapse. Maybe thats what the Trigger coil was for.
Quote from: electricme on April 27, 2010, 09:30:04 AM
Theres 10 Layers of windings, consisting of 76 bifilar turns per layer.
So I gues there is 760 turns in total.
I didn't use any cotton covered copper wire.
Copper wire is just enameled copper wire, BUT I also used a plastic covered iron wire.
....
Below is my pride and joy lol.
Nice, jim.
I have one like that which I call my non galvanic one. I think like all of mine that the core is not soft iron so it is not too good, and I am missing the subtle stuff.
So, this particular coil of mine is the one that worked like a charm as the torroid replacement in a joule thief circuit.
Jim,
Here is an idea I have wanted to try for a while, and you are in a position to do this now, so I will share the idea.
Remove the insulation from just the top layer of the copper wire and cover just that copper wire with cotton and re-wind. When it gets wet, there should be the required amount of galvanic current to start up your coil "internally" and you should have a winner like lasersaber.
I better get myself to the welding shop for some mild iron or steel.
that is a nice looking coil.
jeanna
I actually have some good/old news.
Inspired by Jim and IotaYodi's recent posts, I found my old rusted stake in the shed and furthermore, I pulled out a NS coil from the N end of my N-S setup. This has the same kind of iron stake.
Way way back, I noticed some peculiar compass reading with this coil which may have been the second one I ever made. It showed compass directions similar to those Lasersaber showed in his early video.
I brought both of these inside to warm up and dry out, but first in the cold wet state, I checked them for overt magnetism in the way I checked the steel bolts which are permanent magnets.
These iron stakes show no overt magnetism. (!)
Maybe they will react too slowly, but they seem good for now.
so, I could make a coil with this nice new cotton covered copper wire and annealed iron wire.
AND, I will make a sleeve of some kind that should allow me to remove and replace this stake if I want to.
jeanna
A though occurred, so I thought I'd pass it on in case it matters.
Could it be that the length of time the iron takes to lose its magnetism is related to voltage-ampherage ?
Regards...
Quote from: Cap-Z-ro on April 27, 2010, 06:33:38 PM
A though occurred, so I thought I'd pass it on in case it matters.
Could it be that the length of time the iron takes to lose its magnetism is related to voltage-amperage ?
Regards...
Yes, CapThat is why I am not starting another one until I get the right core material.
The fancy word is hysteresis and it is all important.
thanks for the thought,
jeanna
@ Cap, Jeanna
The speed at which the core loses it's magnetism is more affected by the type of material it is composed of. It is referred to as the core's "permeability".
The intensity of the magnetic field is affected by the power applied to the primary (self-generated in our case) and by the speed at which the contact is broken in the make/break circuit and the frequency of the make/break cycle.
I finished the wire length calculator spreadsheet. It's attached. The only thing you need to enter is the wire diameter, the core diameter and the coil length. The length is calculated for up to 30 layers, so it could be useful for knowing how much wire to buy for your secondary, also.
I just want to report this little thing I did today using the iron stake.
I used my scope and touched the wires and got a 4mV to 16mV spike briefly on the coil. It was something but very little.
Even though the stake should be able to demagnetize itself, after a couple of touches I had to touch the opposite wire to get the same reaction. this means to me that there is too much remanence left.
@Hoverdj,
Here is the thing
In the high permeability toroids I have been using with the joule thief circuits, the spike must be very sharp for a high voltage to occur.
Yes, It is raised with a higher input voltage, but a slow rise or slow decline will never make the high spike and high frequency I think we need.
[edit
I guess I mean when the break happens it needs to be a sharp break too and if the core cannot drop the magnetization it got from the on side of the cycle, it won't make a very good spike.]
That is why I believe the softest iron we can find will be the best for us. Or a ferrite, but where? I got a 4 inch long ferrite stick from cws , but 4 inches is a little short for this, maybe....
I don't have any problem with others trying things but I already tried so many things, I will only make another coil when I have put together what I think should work,
so carry on!
jeanna
edit:
WOW 1800 feet of wire!
Jeanna, I think we're saying the same thing. Or at least trying to. :)
What I meant by intensity is how far from the core the magnetic flux reaches. But speed is definitely the key...to a point. You will eventually reach a point where the magnetic flux is moving so fast that the core doesn't have time to recover. Thus, we say that the core has become saturated. This can also be true going the other way - the flux doesn't have time to reach the outside of the secondary (because it's too fat).
"WOW 1800 feet of wire!"
Yeah...I only did 8 layers. My hands are still aching!
@ IotaYodi,
Quote from: IotaYodi on April 27, 2010, 01:55:14 PM
Have any fluorescent lights? That would do it. Natural electrostatics in the air can build Mv but not as quick as a fluorescent ballast. The polarity may have changed if you moved the coil in a different orientation to the Earths magnetic field or an external field like house wiring or something magnetic.
The timing of the total field collapse may be able to be "tuned" to a faster rate using ferrite instead of iron.
Yes, I remember now, I had my soldering iron turned on, it was about 12" to the coil, and the overhead light globe on its stand, about 15" from the coil. I turned off the soldering iron and the coil settled down a bit, I turned off the light and it's "tiny output" went different, but when I had my scope connected to the ends of the copper and Iron wires, it showed a larger sine wave, but there was no pulse actions or spikes. The glass reed switch is broken because of excessive heat from soldering it so I have to put another one there, but that's later on.
I went for a walk around the house holding the Digital Meter, that's when I noticed the + to - mv output.
In my opinion I simply haven't enough bifilar turns on this coil, I used up all the copper wire I had of that size so I will have to find another lot before I try this again.
OK on the iron to ferrite as the magnetic medium, I was thinking it would work, if you fed the output into an UPS across a 24volt battery, then one could then power the UPS continuously, as long as the charge rate from the stubblefield coil could keep up with the MAX load drawn by the UPS, then free power for the life of the equipment.
The UPS keeps handling the usual voltage/Frequency/Load, the stubblefield coil takes care of the deliverance of the power to the Battery/UPS.
@ Jeanna,
I have designed this stubblefield coil as a "dry" coil, because I needed to see for myself what this type of coil would do, the layers of insulation is just masking tape, which won't allow moisture to permeate through the coils, anyway the insulation on the iron coils is not cotton, it is just the type of covering that one sees on ordinary tiewire, but it is flat green in colour.
The bolt I used is what we call in Australia a "threw" bolt, it is just a long bit of threaded steel rod, I placed a 1/2" plastic electrical conduit between the wooden disk ends, the 2 steel nuts hold it all together.
I noticed something very unusual while I was winding the coils outside, the mossies seem to want to head directly for the bolt ends of the coil, they left the coils and the wooden ends alone, didn't want anything to do with them, just the bolt ends, so can mossies sense some type of magnetic field? could be.
Anyway, I am going to try something that Protonmom mentioned to me a while ago, put some iron wire in a container and set it alight, to anneal it, but I will do the same with copper and that's the way to get rid of the varnish, so I will be able to get unsulated copper wire, then I can use that to wind with.
-------------------------
I learnt 3 things from this, Blisters,difficulty in coil winding, and not having enough wire in a single full length.
I have blisters on both my hands from holding it all together while I was winding it.
Next is a Stubblefield Coil winder on the agenda, and a meat grinder might be the best way to begin this as everyone could buy this item, just a small modification to it and it should work OK.
I had 4 separate lengths of same size copper wire, as the last of each wire end appeared, I made a 90 degree turn, and ran the wire towards the wooden end, drilled a single hole through the end, fed the wire end through the hole. Grabbed another copper wire end and fed that also through the same hole and fed it back along the top of the coil back to where the original 90 degree end was, but made a 90 degree end on the "2nd" copper wire and continued to wind in the same direction as before. I insulated the 2 wires running towards the wood end, the newer turns covering and holding those wires down. The free ends I eventually soldered together outside the coil, they are connected to nothing else. I had to do this 3 times.
Just in case anyone was curious about how I did this.
@ Lasersaber,
Please put a small power transformer across the output from your stubblefield coil and let me know how it went
(a) can you charge a usual run of the mill cap with it?
(b) can you see any impulses in your coils output?
(c) can you light a 1.5v torch bulb with it?
(d) can you rectify the output using 1 diode or a bridge diode?
jim
2549 = 1st coil layer is done
2550 = On the way back during coil layer 2
2559 = The end of the 1st copper wire, I put a 90 degree angle and drilled a hole into the wooden disk, the wire end is poked through the hole.
2560 = The end of the next copper wire is fed through the same hole the wires are then twisted together. the copper wire has a 90 degree turn where it wil continue to become a coil, the 2 leads have a single tape layer as insulation.
2562 = 3 different copper wires are now joined in a series with each other making just 1 long copper wire which is wound next to the iron wire in bifilar fashion.
@ Cap-Z-ro,
Quote from: Cap-Z-ro on April 27, 2010, 06:33:38 PM
A though occurred, so I thought I'd pass it on in case it matters.
Could it be that the length of time the iron takes to lose its magnetism is related to voltage-ampherage ?
Regards...
No, Voltage and Amperage is related to the size wire used, amount of turns on the coil, the intensity of the magnetic field, and it depends on the type of iron used.
Skimping on any item will lower the output of the coil.
So the iron bolt either absorbs more or less magnetic lines of flux, if we look at an ordinary E iron transformer, it has thin sheets of E iron especially made to absorb more magnetic flux.
If the iron bolt loses its magnetism slowly, it will cripple the output of the coil.
Well well, we have 2 newly blistered gents! ;D
Bravo, this a great club to join, welcome...
Jim, I think you have a really good chance to see at least a little action on your coil by removing the varnish from the copper. I would guess it could be enhanced by a layer of wet cloth just to keep the small galvanics going.
All this action today just might get me to make my coil on a welding rod. I did buy a box of them last week, but I was kind of thinking I could find something better. Now, I am not so sure , and maybe the thinness of the welding rod will just save me a little wire.
3/32 of an inch is pretty thin. I dunno.
Anyway,
congratulations hoverdj and Jim!
Jim,
When I made that little reed switch motor, they had me only wrap the leading wire around the thin leads of the reed switch to avoid any solder. That little motor works like a dream too.
Also, since lasersaber seems busy I will say that it was easy to see that the led on his secondary went on and off. It really did work just as stubblefield said it should.
He connected the reed switch between the 5 and 6 wires and left the 10's open and the secondary lit the light with a stream of flashes. It is cool to see.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuQGuXJ02fo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuQGuXJ02fo) just in case
jeanna
Thanks for clearing up the permeability issue with the iron gang...this stuff is really intriguing.
Regards...
@ jeanna,
Quote from: jeanna on April 28, 2010, 01:33:38 AM
All this action today just might get me to make my coil on a welding rod. I did buy a box of them last week, but I was kind of thinking I could find something better. Now, I am not so sure , and maybe the thinness of the welding rod will just save me a little wire.
3/32 of an inch is pretty thin. I dunno.
Also, since lasersaber seems busy I will say that it was easy to see that the led on his secondary went on and off. It really did work just as stubblefield said it should.
He connected the reed switch between the 5 and 6 wires and left the 10's open and the secondary lit the light with a stream of flashes. It is cool to see.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuQGuXJ02fo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuQGuXJ02fo) just in case
jeanna
OK, the welding rods first, if you need to remove the coating (the stuff glued around the welding rods) just soak a few rods in a container of water for a couple of days, and it'l just fall off, if you are in a hurry to do this, lay each rod on the concrete and hit it with a hammer, wear eye protection as it might get a bit exciting with stuff flying about.
I have just been looking at the NS coil lasersaber posted on UT, it seems to be running dosent it, but he is getting the LED to fire when the collapse of the magnetic field happens as the magnet on the rotating disk passes the reed switch. I have no problems with this, as his coil is the sole source of energy, which is amazing all by itself.
@all,
I have just modified my stubblefield coil by giving it feet to make it more stable, I got a bit tired chasing it rolling around.
I also added a 4 way nylon junction terminal strip on the 5-s and 10s, I didn't want to take any chances of a wire fracture, now I can experiment more easily with it.
jim
2556 = Termination block screwed to wooden end
2567 = Coil grows FEET
2568 = Coil sprouts connection wires.
@ hoverdj,
Nice work on your coil calculator, well done and I appreceate the effort you must of put into it.
jim
Quote from: electricme on April 28, 2010, 10:09:26 AM
@ hoverdj,
Nice work on your coil calculator, well done and I appreceate the effort you must of put into it.
jim
Thanks Jim. Part of what I enjoy about this endeavor is learning all the supporting stuff. Like that funky Sum symbol in the written equation I posted. I've seen it in movies and books (and in MSWord) but never knew what it meant or how to use it. Now I do. Coolness!
BTW, what's a "mossie?"
"To collapse or not collapse... That is the question"
And I have and answer!! , well guys it happens that while ago I made a bedini bifilar coil for my gigantic 5 ft diameter rotor, but never had time to make the other 20 coils ...But hey! with ony that one coil I got results , slow but nonetheless a tiny bit overunity...thing is:
The core was made with a special welding wire which doesn't retains magnetism!
Now excuse my bad memory but right now I don't have the number or specs for it , but by going to the builders site for the bedini wheel you will find it for sure.
The possibilities are endless I might say because you can fabricate as thick or long as you might require for your core.
I used my dremel drill to cut the metal down to the required length, like I said I'm out of usa and will inquire at home for it, but everything is in storage right now.
And thank you folks for answering my questions and clarifying some more. I'm building big as soon as i can and will show results for all to see.
In the meantime i want to tell you I had this thick coper and iron coil as tall as a foot and half of that in diameter ,all found in a garage sale , so I submerged in water in a huge glass jar..I got about 1.5 volts but not signigicative current just milliamps, that upset me a bit then the next day i got less and so forth...then one day,
I saw my wife's cat drinking the water from the jar !! ...The thing was working perfectly , but didn't notice a difference wet or dry and i was using bare iron and copper wire no layers in between , I think that's why the amps were so low, then again the pulser with a transistor was the next step...Then i had to work in a foreing primitive country... I knew it would work , now guys the possibilities are endless, but the fight is just starting, talking about the acceptance of this technology by the stablishment, but I'm a fighter and I will like you pushing through I have very strong reasons to do so...
Thank you again , and keep up with the good work!
Hi kukul...d,
That is a very cool experience.
Do you think there was ever any cotton insulation on the copper?
Was it varnished copper like jim's?
What I have been not asking very well is 'how well can a thing like this work if I have only a 3/32 inch diameter welding rod as a core?'
It is very skinny.
I think I will give it a small trial today. I do not want to waste my special copper wire on a little thing that cannot work because of its small diameter, but maybe I can steal just a little from my supply?
So, do YOU (or anyone else) think this will work on a skinny rod?
thank you,
jeanna
@Jeanna
I'd say that yes, it will work. As well as and as efficiently as LaserSaber's? Probably not.
I'm very interested to know, though.
Here is my winding jig. Simple but very effective.
Darryl
I think I have some good news here. About a month ago I contacted some friends in Canada and told them about the Stubblefield coil and asked if they had ever seen or heard of such a thing. Yesterday I received a letter that there is a man up there who owns one, or what they believe to be one. It is described as being 11 1/2 inches long and 7 inches across. It has a cotton covering on the wires, and he says it is very old. I plan to take a trip up there and see just what he has and offer to buy it. I am not sure if the guy knows what he has, or not. He also has a lot of other items that they say appear to be electrical, so hopefully I will find a treasure trove there. It sounds very promising...so wish me luck!
Protonmom:
Wow, this is excellent news! I can't even imagine why an original NS coil would end up there but hey, stranger things have happened. Best of luck to you on your trip. If indeed it is a real NS coil, not only will that help us to replicate but, that will be a real piece of history. I am sure the NS museum would purchase that from you, after, of course, we reverse engineer it, ha ha.
Have a safe journey.
Bill
@Protonmom,
That is good news, but please bring a digital camera and document it or any other electrical equipment, with his permission of course. It would be great if it's an actual Stubblefield.
wow!!
This is good news.
I also want to request that you look closely for clues to the connections.
I think you know my thoughts about the globes and the long stake going into the ground,. I would love something definitive on this.
If the outside is covered in cloth this means it is the primary and not the secondary.
Hopefully the rest of the electrical stuff belongs with it and we can figure it out.
Excellent work!
jeanna
QuoteSo, do YOU (or anyone else) think this will work on a skinny rod?
Of course it would if its high iron and low carbon. Just a matter of wire size and number of turns that will dictate the power. It will be hard to wind without some sort of setup for it.
Protonmom: You may want to ask for a picture of this coil. The coil itself may not have been made by NS but that would be a plus if it were.
QuoteCould it be that the length of time the iron takes to lose its magnetism is related to voltage-ampherage ?
It is related but pretty much agree with Electricme. If you put a steady dc voltage on this coil there is no field collapse. Which means the core is keeping the em field and aligning domains. A partial collapse of the core will affect the current and voltage output. The dc current has to be interrupted in a timely manner in order for the max field collapse for max effect. With AC it drops to a negative voltage reversing the polarity resulting in the cores collapse. Interrupted dc voltage only drops to zero with no polarity change.
That is a very cool experience.
Do you think there was ever any cotton insulation on the copper?
Was it varnished copper like jim's?
Not in mine, but yes on stubblefield's, and definitely on stephen vail's one, in order to sustain a galvanic like reaction ala alessandro volta whom used copper and silver coins separated with carboard soaked in salt water,but this coil doesn't depend on the galvanic but the radiant/cosmic energy absortion through pulses and in the ground also take advantage of the telluric currents
What I have been not asking very well is 'how well can a thing like this work if I have only a 3/32 inch diameter welding rod as a core?'
Eveything is proportional, core thickness and length, wire windings and diameter of it,so it will work with the right calculations, to avoid hysteresis loses making a core with several of this wires will act as the E insulted laminates of a regular transformer making more efficient with less losses eddy currents etc
Hope this helps Jeanna
Quote from: hoverdj on April 28, 2010, 10:23:22 AM
Thanks Jim.
BTW, what's a "mossie?"
Sorry, its a stinging insect called a mosquito.
jim
@Protonmom,
Thats good news about these Canadian coils, lets hope there is a stubblefield coil amungst them.
jim
I`d like to know if LaserSabres coil is still self running, its been two weeks since his last video.
@all
I was thinking that maybe a ignition coil core could could be used.
Hello everyone, I have'nt been on for a long time, but where have you all been?
I have'nt seen any of you at the Joule thief thread !
So I came over here, and here you all are !
I just made my complete JT-mains power supply for 20xLED light bulbs...please have a look...
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6123.msg239842#msg239842
Scroll down the page... what do you's think ?
Hi, Im a first time poster Im a newcomer to all of this. Independently I began researching stubblefield and consequently his earth battery and voila! I found you guys.
I have been following lasersaber and jeannacav's vids on youtube and read through the tons of posts on the subject of the self-exciting induction coil and I think I have figured out something about it.
I was reading a section on transformers in this electrical coursebook but before they delved into transformers they had a brief section on induction coils.
Induction coils work by interrupting a steady dc current, via a mechanical switch ( the reed switch in the case of lasersaber's coil ) or transistor. At each switch, a emf is induced in the secondary winding, but only at the opening and closing, hence the need for a core of high permeability and low retentivity. The steady supply of dc is coming for the galvanic action of the bifilar coil in electrolyte medium. Though there needs to be reaction to generate current, like more common earth batteries it is found that a greater difference in moisture content enhances the output of the galvanic cell. Hence the fact it works BETTER while drying out. Strength of the battery would also fluctuate with ground resistivity and other factors like diurnal movement, placement in respect to magnetic declination, north-south orientation etc.
One thing of note that I believe will greatly help all of us in our Stubblefield studies is something that was said in that book i was reading. ( The reason why i brought the book up in the first place ) Instead of shorting the wires to create the electromagnet, the time between flux changes can greatly decrease if a capacitor is connected there instead, it will gather excess current slowing down core saturation and will provide greater induced voltage in the secondary by decreasing the time between "switches".
So what do you think? Im not sure if i have a handle on all of this, so any input regarding to my suggestion and/or my idea of how the battery/self-exciting induction coil works is greatly appreciated. Hope to hear back from you all soon!
@ alchemist123,
Firstly let me welcome you to the forum (the blister club), nice to have another new chum here ;)
It's good to know you have been studying up on what we are all trying to do here.
All the points you have raised are worthy and will be studdied closely no doubt.
About the drying out effect, I have noticed this from those who have tested their coils, plunging them into a bucket of water they will work until the coils are saturated, then the electrical effect drops, then as the coil dries out it begins to recover it's output until it passes a certain point then falls.
Lasersaber has noted this effect.
If the coil was placed in the earth (which is damp) seems to allow the coil to "tune" the dampness within itself, retaining a certain amount of moisture seems to allow it to operate.
Pirate88179 has studdied the angles of rods in the earth, which will enhance the output of his earth cells, which I'm sure can be applied with stubblefield cells also.
The trick would be to find a happy medium so it would operate continuously.
jim
http://www.coilws.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=104
"As the magnetization force increases ( or the current over the conductor is increased), a point is reached where the magnetic material or core will saturate. See point "S" above on the curves. When that happens, any further increase in H, will not increase the flux. More importantly, the permeability goes to zero as the slope now is flat. In this situation the magnetic material or core will fail to work as a transformer, chokes, or inductors.
So, it is very important in a choke or inductor design, not to drive the core into saturation by increasing the current (AC or DC). Usually it is the DC current that saturate the cores since it is a constant current, and puts the cores to a certain flux level."
So Im thinking the switch may need to open/shut before the saturation point. Number of turns,core materiel,voltage etc will determine the switching rate. Most think this is a radiant energy or cold electricity device. The voltage and current relationships as far as ohms law goes with radiant energy doesnt seem to be known. The more current though the more radiant energy.
My wife broke a food chopper. I took the laminated core out and tested it. Absolutely no remanence. Plus it magnified the field intensity of my toroid magnets substantially. I wonder if they make them in round or rectangular rod configurations.
Quote from: kukulcangod on May 01, 2010, 02:46:46 AM
That is a very cool experience.
Do you think there was ever any cotton insulation on the copper?
Was it varnished copper like jim's?
Not in mine, but yes on stubblefield's, and definitely on stephen vail's one, in order to sustain a galvanic like reaction ala alessandro volta whom used copper and silver coins separated with carboard soaked in salt water,but this coil doesn't depend on the galvanic but the radiant/cosmic energy absortion through pulses and in the ground also take advantage of the telluric currents
What I have been not asking very well is 'how well can a thing like this work if I have only a 3/32 inch diameter welding rod as a core?'
Eveything is proportional, core thickness and length, wire windings and diameter of it,so it will work with the right calculations, to avoid hysteresis loses making a core with several of this wires will act as the E insulted laminates of a regular transformer making more efficient with less losses eddy currents etc
Hope this helps Jeanna
intresting you mention that ...
i built an electrode core some time ago .. useing zinc coated wire thin many in a bundle then wrapped them with 1 of the same ...
cheep way to make zinc rods .. of any size ... i would expect results from the way it is made alone ...
; )
ist
@Mk1 since this Stubblefield coil is very similar to an ignition coil Id say its a pretty good bet.
@electricme The drying out effect I think can be simply explained. Think about a battery, a primary cell works because an electrolyte is acting on ONE of the electrodes. I think this is where we are seeing the discrepancies (spelling?) in the experimental results furnished by the people of this forum. As you said, until the coil-body is saturated it works, and as it dries out (up to a point it works ).
Copper and Iron are electropotentially different, so no matter what a feeble voltage can be "drawn" just by connecting them.
In the patent, only the copper wire is expressly said to be insulated the iron wire is not, though it can be without ruining the function of the device but limiting it in ways expressed by Stubblefield. When the coil is fully wet, the electrolyte is acting on both electrodes equally, so only the electropotential difference of the metals is affecting the amount of voltage. As it dries out, there is a difference in the amount electrolyte acting on each electrode. So when soaking and when drying it seems to work efficiently.
I think this is why Stubblefield reccomends this be buried in moist earth, What is necessary is to aid the voltage differential between electrodes. Increase in voltage through the winding increases current ( ie Ohms law ) hence greater electromagnetic effect and greater effect on the secondary output.
For an above ground Stubblefield coil, it shouldnt be too hard to figure a way to keep it moist, but for "freeenergy" use i say the earth is the way to go, you can connect these by cells and utilize difference in locational voltage potentials to power a primary induction coil/battery.
@ IotaYodi I agree the core composition is vital. Soft magnetic materials are needed for low retentivity(remnance), good places to find these are transformers, as the function of a transformer relies entirely on this concept as well. Losses due to eddy currents can be reduced by either using a high resistance ferromagnetic material or using many smaller pieces to comprise up a core. I think that a bundle of iron rods may fare better than the single bolt in the original stubblefield design. Or better yet Permalloy rods. Mu-metal i have read has a lower saturation point though is comparable to other alloy cores, however it is alot easier to work with. Shouldnt matter though for this invention.
@ alchemist123:
I agree with what you have said, to a point. What you describe works for a totally galvanic reaction between the copper and the iron. In Stubblefield's writings, and from my own experiments, I believe we are dealing with something more. In a pure galvanic reaction, something is being consumed yet NS says that there is no breakdown of materials when properly buried in the earth. For a 100% galvanic reaction, the wetter the coil the better yet, NS, and from my own research, the drier the electrodes or coil in the earth, the better the output.
This is why I believe there is something more going on here than galvanic reaction. Early on in this topic we tried to eliminate this possibility by using 2 copper rods cut from the same pipe and placed in the earth with the proper alignment. We still got voltage and mA's which told me that it was not galvanic and the earth did have a part to play in all of this.
If not, NS could have simply wet his coils and placed them in a jar when he did his tour for investors. He did not do this. He also is on record for making the first ever ship to shore phone call when he was on the Potomac river in Washington, DC in a ship, and somehow, his device still worked.
So, although I do not claim to know exactly how his devices worked, I can judge by reading the history and make a few assumptions. My EER (earth battery) works the best when it has not rained for days and the ground is totally dry. I can place my electrodes in water and get some results but nowhere near what I can obtain outside in the earth with the proper alignment. Also, I have dug up my metals 2 times in the past 2 years and see no evidence of any breakdown of the materials as Stubblefield had predicted.
Just my 2 cents from my readings and experience.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on May 09, 2010, 06:02:35 AM
@ alchemist123:
I agree with what you have said, to a point. What you describe works for a totally galvanic reaction between the copper and the iron. In Stubblefield's writings, and from my own experiments, I believe we are dealing with something more. In a pure galvanic reaction, something is being consumed yet NS says that there is no breakdown of materials when properly buried in the earth. For a 100% galvanic reaction, the wetter the coil the better yet, NS, and from my own research, the drier the electrodes or coil in the earth, the better the output.
This is why I believe there is something more going on here than galvanic reaction. Early on in this topic we tried to eliminate this possibility by using 2 copper rods cut from the same pipe and placed in the earth with the proper alignment. We still got voltage and mA's which told me that it was not galvanic and the earth did have a part to play in all of this.
If not, NS could have simply wet his coils and placed them in a jar when he did his tour for investors. He did not do this. He also is on record for making the first ever ship to shore phone call when he was on the Potomac river in Washington, DC in a ship, and somehow, his device still worked.
So, although I do not claim to know exactly how his devices worked, I can judge by reading the history and make a few assumptions. My EER (earth battery) works the best when it has not rained for days and the ground is totally dry. I can place my electrodes in water and get some results but nowhere near what I can obtain outside in the earth with the proper alignment. Also, I have dug up my metals 2 times in the past 2 years and see no evidence of any breakdown of the materials as Stubblefield had predicted.
Just my 2 cents from my A and experience.
Bill
Voltage is a differential quantity, so even in a copper copper earth battery setup voltage can be generated ( consequently amperage as well) if other parameters regarding earth batteries are followed.
I think the earth does have a role in this as a conduction medium. My problem with the "telluric receiver" theory is that output fluctuations should be occuring more often if a current propagating through the earth is affecting the receiver, the reason for this being that the current is inducing voltage to the secondary before the primary, and such fluctuations would be frequently upset the frequency output of the secondary leading to usage problems especially in the field of radio which Stubblefield concentrated on. Areas which telluric currents pass through have a Low Frenquency Window, allowing the earth to act as a better conducting medium. (source: wikipedia ) I think that the telluric hotspots hunted for by stubblefield in his experiments allowed a conduction to happen over a huge area consequently allowing a whole plethora of possibilities, such as greatly changing the difference in potential between two spots, providing a path of low inductance and consequently inductive reactance.
The lack of disintergration of materials has fascinated me, The only thing that my mind can come up with is possibly the telluric currents electroplate/self-repair the coilbodies, but this may be a facet of the voltaic couple itself. But this is definitely something that I am striving to understand so please tell me more about your findings, or direct me to a page if u can lol this thread is 224 pages long.
Stubblefields wireless telephony exhibitions are neat, however there was an aerial that encircled the boat and im almost certain all of the "Steampunk Cell Phones" :) Maybe this was a way of achieving low inductance? or maybe capacitance? So that the coils could be tuned? Though there is a plethora of info on earth batteries there is like 0 mention of the aerials on the internet that he used and im just beginning to learn about radio. Also one factor affecting this communication that should be noted is the effect of AC discharge via grounding, it disturbs the medium enough that it will render the transmission on the wireless telephone unintelligble, this is attributed to one of NS's failed New York demonstrations that occured after its switch to Tesla AC polyphase system.
Quote from: alchemist123 on May 09, 2010, 07:04:26 AM
Voltage is a differential quantity, so even in a copper copper earth battery setup voltage can be generated ( consequently amperage as well) if other parameters regarding earth batteries are followed.
I think the earth does have a role in this as a conduction medium. My problem with the "telluric receiver" theory is that output fluctuations should be occuring more often if a current propagating through the earth is affecting the receiver, the reason for this being that the current is inducing voltage to the secondary before the primary, and such fluctuations would be frequently upset the frequency output of the secondary leading to usage problems especially in the field of radio which Stubblefield concentrated on. Areas which telluric currents pass through have a Low Frenquency Window, allowing the earth to act as a better conducting medium. (source: wikipedia ) I think that the telluric hotspots hunted for by stubblefield in his experiments allowed a conduction to happen over a huge area consequently allowing a whole plethora of possibilities, such as greatly changing the difference in potential between two spots, providing a path of low inductance and consequently inductive reactance.
The lack of disintergration of materials has fascinated me, The only thing that my mind can come up with is possibly the telluric currents electroplate/self-repair the coilbodies, but this may be a facet of the voltaic couple itself. But this is definitely something that I am striving to understand so please tell me more about your findings, or direct me to a page if u can lol this thread is 224 pages long.
Stubblefields wireless telephony exhibitions are neat, however there was an aerial that encircled the boat and im almost certain all of the "Steampunk Cell Phones" :) Maybe this was a way of achieving low inductance? or maybe capacitance? So that the coils could be tuned? Though there is a plethora of info on earth batteries there is like 0 mention of the aerials on the internet that he used and im just beginning to learn about radio. Also one factor affecting this communication that should be noted is the effect of AC discharge via grounding, it disturbs the medium enough that it will render the transmission on the wireless telephone unintelligble, this is attributed to one of NS's failed New York demonstrations that occured after its switch to Tesla AC polyphase system.
Wow! I am impressed. You raise some very valid points and it is obvious that you too have studied Stubblefield. I will have to reread your post and research some specific points before I try to address them but, overall, I have to say that you are spot on in your conclusions as far as I see it.
I have seen from my scope shots of my 2 electrodes in the ground, huge spikes that could/might account for the energy NS spoke about in his secondary. Now, as you know, I am surrounded by Tesla 60 hz grid energy which is grounded everywhere now. Maybe that is what I am seeing. But, I have argued with folks claiming the same thing about NS but here in KY there was no grid at that time in his area. His farm site (now Murry State University) is like 2 hours west of my position.
I really appreciate your attitude and knowledge of this topic. I don't claim to know how this worked but I do know a few things from my own experience. Still, it is not enough to fully replicate what NS has done. I hope you continue to post here and also, share any findings you might have from your own experiments. I believe that with a lot of good minds working on this, we can get this device working as Nathan had himself so many years ago.
Bill
QuoteBut, I have argued with folks claiming the same thing about NS but here in KY there was no grid at that time in his area.
Even then he had to find the right location. The only known working coils I know of were close to the Appalachian mountain range which stretches 1,500 mi from Alabama to Québec. Mountain ranges and their makeup may play an important role for this coil. Heres another potential problem. According to Nasa the Earths pulse,Schumann resonance,has been changing. Also the Earths magnetic field has diminished by 10% according to Nasa. I cant remember the time line on that.
@all,
My oh my, there is a lot of very interresting "stuff" being discussed in these last two pages and I am taking my time to alow it to all digest.
OK, whilst the theory is being banted about I have grabbed a short length of varnished copper wire, about 2 meters (7 feet in old money) rolled it into a tight bundle, placed it in a stainless steel bowl, poored in som metho and set it on fire in the back yard, ha ha, well Im trying to unvarnish it, and I succeeded.
There was very little smoke as meths burns without smoke, so it was only the varnish that smoked, after a couple of minutes it was done.
It is also at least three times as easy to bend now, the varnish turned black then it seemed to take on a hammertone look, the bare copper could be seen at times through the flames. I let it cool down slowly and then it was a simple matter of strightning the copper wire. Next step is to see how I go with winding cotton around it.
jim
@bill
The surge that you have seen in your earth battery setup could very well have been a telluric spike. It fits the characteristics of one. Whats the frequency of the spikes? I read that they occur somewhere between 5-6 mins i cant recall the source though atm.
I have read some interesting info in regards to what is being experimentally shown.
In Earth's Electrical Environment (1985 or 1986 published ). In the section on telluric currents it notes of 2 types of telluric currents. Shallow and Deep. Shallow telluric currents are exhibited due to difference between the geomagnetic field of the earth and the position of ocean currents or conductive medium in the soil layer ( ie mineral deposits ). Deep currents are independent of geomagnetic field and tend to occur during tectonic activity.
@IotaYodi I agree the mountains have alot to do with the output of EB's. Differences in ground potential, altitude and proximity to propagation areas of telluric currents ( old fault lines ) . Tesla made some mention of this during his Colorado Springs experiments, and before Wardenclyffe his parameters for a wireless communication network included a high-altitude station, some of which were balloon elevated. Just food for thought.
Also to make note as I just thought of this, one of the reasons that EB's perform really well around the roots of trees is possibly due to the tree itself. Now this is commonsensical, but what does a root system of any plant do? Suck in water, now if it just happen to suck in some water past our EB exciting it via galvanic reaction, well that is just purely beneficial for us :)
oh and if you are picking up ground leakage, some easy ways to test are checking its electrical frequency and its waveform ( sine )
Quoteparameters for a wireless communication network included a high-altitude station, some of which were balloon elevated.
This would be more line of sight rather than the gain of power. The higher you go the further the distance a signal can be sent.
Quoteis possibly due to the tree itself
The capillary system of the tree itself would become part of the circuit. This would also include the leaves. The telluric currents also travel through trees and plants. Plus you have an electrical potential of 100 volts per vertical meter. A 25 foot tree would have about an 800 volt potential. I would think that NS used the trees as the negative. Experiments should be done with both dry and wet trees of different heights with an NS coil. A tree with thicker bark might be a better conductor.
@all
Don't forget that Tesla wireless system was in fact not aerial but better illustrated as earth being the wire , in a single wire system .
What is common to all electric system ::) ... Ground !
Is there someone on the receiving end ...
QuoteDon't forget that Tesla wireless system was in fact not aerial but better illustrated as earth being the wire
Only in part in my mind. The Earth may have completed the circuit but with the power generation being transmitted through the air.
Wow .. u guys rule.. espically lasersaber .. he understands!!! its like a freaking light shinning down ..magnetic driven spark gap that increases in speed ... sounds like a telluric battery being primed .. aright im actually back this time life is going a lot better my girl is back to finishing her masters and ive got some money and free time..
Shout out to Bill, Jeanna ,electricme and Hans you folks dealt with me during a real hard time in life thanks for still posting and keeping the thoughts flowing
New email folks localjoe@me.com direct all questions to that if ya can i will try to be on the forums more and start posting but i would love a quick rundown of recent developments if anyone is game
after reading a bit i came up with a list of ideas to be tossed around. these could have already been answered there just thoughts stuck in my mind about the overall scope of this thing. I think once the following is ironed out using common test bed between us all we will have someting pretty interesting not that its not now but here ya go.
topics
resonance in primary to secondary and possible coorliation with multiple of shuman resonanse
primary to secondary ratio - physical mass and layers of winding and dimensions
alum vs iron wire in primary
reducing friction in reed switch setup with magnet motor... possible levitation in confied plastic case with repulsion
identifying a ramping up effect or priming effect when the coil is initilazied withen the soil.
creating a hv stepdown transformer to make some usable power from this thing
in the end we should be able to produce high frequency high voltage energy from this setups secondary coil. lets make it happen people
Joe:
Good to see you again man! Yes, there have been many folks working away over here and getting some very interesting results. It appears that the work on the coil is getting a lot closer to what NS had than ever before.
Glad to hear things are going better for you. I look forward to hearing about your experiments once again. I have been pretty busy lately and can only pop in here now and then to try to keep up. Soon, hopefully, I will be back to experimentation myself.
Bill
Quote from: IotaYodi on May 08, 2010, 11:44:55 AM
http://www.coilws.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=104
"As the magnetization force increases ( or the current over the conductor is increased), a point is reached where the magnetic material or core will saturate. See point "S" above on the curves. When that happens, any further increase in H, will not increase the flux. More importantly, the permeability goes to zero as the slope now is flat. In this situation the magnetic material or core will fail to work as a transformer, chokes, or inductors.
So, it is very important in a choke or inductor design, not to drive the core into saturation by increasing the current (AC or DC). Usually it is the DC current that saturate the cores since it is a constant current, and puts the cores to a certain flux level."
So Im thinking the switch may need to open/shut before the saturation point. Number of turns,core materiel,voltage etc will determine the switching rate. Most think this is a radiant energy or cold electricity device. The voltage and current relationships as far as ohms law goes with radiant energy doesnt seem to be known. The more current though the more radiant energy.
My wife broke a food chopper. I took the laminated core out and tested it. Absolutely no remanence. Plus it magnified the field intensity of my toroid magnets substantially. I wonder if they make them in round or rectangular rod configurations.
Key point here folks-
1) The switch needs to throw before the core reaches saturation, this will take some more test builds to and some way to measure saturation .. maybe magnetic film to hold up behind it sold at the kid science stores.
a) Is there a way to modify the speed at which the reed switch throws in order to dump the flux before the core reaches saturation other than winding a different sized primary bifilar coil?
2) After the stuff in 1. is ironed out the primary coil should be constructed in a fashion to bring the secondary to resonance. i know this has to do with wire length, mass and a few sets of calculations between the L1 and L2 in the circuit. we want this thing to ring..
I have said this before but why not just use a transistor? We know from our work in the JT topic that we can operate some of them on .3 volts and we also know how to achieve resonance by using a VR to find the correct value of the total coil system. This to me is a very simple solution that NS probably would have used if they were around back then.
My next attempt will have a ferrite core and I will try a small, maybe 2N3904 just to see what happens. This should allow for some pretty high freqs. as we have seen in our Joule Thief builds.
Bill
@Bill
That is a good idea.
You might recall that when I used a non-galvanic stubblefield battery in place of the toroid of a joule thief, the results were excellent.
I am sure you are right about making the transistor an integral part of the generator.
@localjoe
Welcome back Joe!
I wish you well.
There are a couple of references that might speed up your reading.
The first main one is the set of 4 of lasersaber's videos.
He showed that (like john bedini's coil) the stubblefield gen will self regulate its speed of pulse.
He used a lightweight rotor on a plastic jar lid loaded with 4 magnets all facing out and a reed switch connected across some various wires.
On his first example he said the rotor picked up speed for many hours (I think he said all day) So, it was gaining as it was in use.
The timing was not an issue and it was automatic.
In the last video he showed a big coil with "hundreds and hundreds of turns" made and connected just as stubblefield did and said it worked as NS had said it would.
He was NOT expecting that to work so it is all the more interesting.
Here is Laser's youtube channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/lasersaber#g/u (http://www.youtube.com/user/lasersaber#g/u)
-----
The other reference I have for you harkens back to your first post with the basil plant.
I have posted the info on a thread about using an earth battery to start a joule thief.
this is the beginning of that thread.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8540.0 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8540.0)
So, thanks for the inspiration with the plant! :D
Here is the first video of the Plant Battery #1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BER7FTW1FfA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BER7FTW1FfA)
thank you,
jeanna
@Localjoe,
Welcome back Joe, it's great to see you here with us once again, you have some of the best input I have seen, and thank you for starting this thread all the past years ago, and no doubt we will see more of it once again (like I just read top side).
@all,
I picked up a very old unusual A just a few days ago for $10 from a local farmer friend of mine, please see pics.
This coil is very unusual, where it is wound using FLAT copper which is COTTON covered.
It's contition is extreamly poor to say the least, and the cotton insulation is flaking off, so as it's condition is so bad, I will not attempt to power it up, but will dismantle it and take photos of this as I go.
This coil just may give us all some insights of the technology that was used back in Stubblefields days, which will be a bonus.
As I pull this coil apart, I will document it in fine detail (reverse engineer it) so we will have some idea how it was made. ;)
Wire size, turns, insulation etc etc.
Here is the first of many photos I will post to keep us all up to date.
jim
2631 = Complete coil before dismantling begins, this is the back of the coil.
2632 = Close up of the FLAT copper turns, which are COTTON Insulated
2633 = Looking into the center of this huge coil
2634 = Front side of this coil showing the "TAP" points
2635 = Some of the muck on this coil, yuck.
@all,
The pull down continues with this "wonder" coil, I am learning "new" stuff at each time I take something further apart.
The BIG surprise so far is ALL the copper wires are SQUARE, they ALL are insulated in COTTON thread, and it looks like each layer is inter spaced by cotton sheeting just like a Stubblefield built coil.
The only difference I can tell is there is NO iron wire involved, just copper wires.
When I get further along with the dismantling of this coil I will let us all know if the primary is a single coil or a bifilar coil, but we gotta wait a bit first though.
jim
2636 = Very old nuts used to hold the iron core together, the center hole is out of round on all nuts
2637 = Top bracket of coil only is removed, so I can still keep the dismantle under control.
2638 = All the inter leaf irons are removed, the Red Fiber Board insulation falls away revealing rusty iron
2640 = The inner coils can now be seen, still in place where it has been for so many unknown years (75-100)
2641 = The copper core is being carefully removed, it is half way out of the inner iron core, BIG surprise to follow.
2642 = Copper "core" is now on it's own, BIG surprise here, as I placed it down, a part of the inner insulation fell away in a big chunk, it is COTTON woven sheet. NO doubt at this all, so here is proof that these big coils used COTTON insulation on the very first layor.
2643 = Another view of the above item
More to follow
@all,
Wonder Coil pull down continues.
2647 = These are the Primary windings for sure, no doubt as they are smaller in size to those wound on the outside of this coil. These inner copper wires definatly have cotton insulation on them, I will let us all know how many threads are wound around the copper wire soon enough.
2648 = The COTTON SHEETING, part only, the other part of it is still there, insulation inner barrier between the coil and the Iron former leaves, no doubt at all, I will take a look at all this with my USB Microscope shortly and post results, so much to do lol.
2649 = A downward looking view
2650 = Another downward looking view
2651 = This coil is just over 7 inches long.
jim
@all,
USB Microscope photos of this "wonder coil", leaving me NO doubt at all that cotton was used on the insulation of this coil, as the PRIMARY insulation.
This tells me this coil is very old, and for it to have survived in the condition it is in is simply amazing.
OK, the instrument I used to take the following photos is a ZOOM Digital Microscope which I picked up from Jaycar Electronics for $99 Australian in Toowoomba.
It comes with it's own installation CD, cable, booklet. I can Manually Zoom in or out, Manual Focus, can take a photo by pressing the top button or by clicking the mouse key, a nice little doover.
001 = Cotton weave patton in the cloth, taken from the "final" center layer of this coil
002 = A close up of the cotton cloth fibres
003 = Resin on this cotton cloth.
004 = The smaller "primary" turns of copper wire seperated by some unknown as yet insulation material
005 = A close up of this "unknown" insulation, it looks to me as though it could be a "fiber board"
006 = 1st copper layer showing the copper turns, 1st insulation around the copper wire and a bit of the inner cotton insulation barrier between the copper coils and the iron former
007 = Close up of cotton covered copper wire
010 = Thin Rope or thick string, could be hemp, which bound the last cotton sheet layer around this coil
011 = Cotton covered "wider secondary coils"
012 = close up of these cotton fibers, not many on this section.
Nice find. The 4th photo down looks like pvc insulated wire?
It appears to me like an old transformer.
Hey folks its data logging time !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D one of my favorite times
Id like to compile a spread sheet that included the data of individual stubbelefiled coil replications and all of their traits.. meaning length and gauge of primiary bifilar wires or weight whatever you used. I also like to include physical dimensions and primary bifiliar coil output voltage and amperage . For those of us that have wound secondaries please state length and gauge not worried about induced current yet until everyone or at least a few of us has secondaries on there test bed models..
we need some way to actually SEE or calculate the size of the magnetic field and the dimensions it encompasses between quenches/pulses of the make and break in the primary bifilar coil. Also when the speed/freq of the make and break id like to see what happens to the field. We may be missing out on alot of field lines cutting through if the secondaries arent big enough or the whole shebang inst long enough.. i still think the magnetic field paper that folks use to see the field around a magnet would do the trick for us.
Feel free to pm me or post your coil data here i will upload the completed spreadsheet after i get a few entries from folks.
Joe
GREAT FIND!! This should be remembered as historical as well, giving you credit for it, this stuff is just amazing,i'm dying to know how it was pulsed or wired up to give out power.
On the other hand where can we get cotton to insulate in between our layers of wire?? I can't find a suitable source! any suggestions?
I tried but i can only find crazy stuff from macy's!! any help will be apreciated.
10 dollars...unbelievable ... I've been trying to locate and item like that myself ...well right now I'm really away from the states so that search was over a while ago. I'm trying to come up with ideas myself as to how to get more power out of this, so the last post are right along my thoughts and are much appreciated, in my humble opinion this is the type of stuff that can change the world forever and for good, let's keep trying ,for one I will keep fighting for it I promised a long time ago , specially when in my case seems destiny that put me in the way to it...
Use the lincoln welding rods r60 copper covered steel alloy for your cores, it is the same bedini uses for his coils for high frequency switching, obviously the idea of using a transistor it is a must, remember that this works are on the lines of not just Mr Bedini of Tesla but also Don L Smith, it is all about high frequencies and resonance...
Good luck to all and most of all I thank you all for your feedback and willing to share this wonderfull ideas and discoveries
Ill look through some textbooks to see if i can find something that can determine the size of the pulses/flux. I do remember something though about a magnetic fields strength decreasing to a quarter strength when you're a radius away from the source. For example: for a 2inch magnet with a 1T field strength, the amount of flux that is one inch away from the magnet is only .25T
How does anyone propose making the primary and secondary resonate if it is even possible, 3 different kinds of wire with different capacitance and inductance? Anyone fill me in?
Also I agree Looks alot like a transformer, the core looks to be all in separate little sections, and the shape is consistent with a transformer with the interior being larger than the legs
Quote from: kukulcangod on May 12, 2010, 02:18:33 PM
On the other hand where can we get cotton to insulate in between our layers of wire?? I can't find a suitable source! any suggestions?
Really any thin cotton or silk fabric works well. gause has holes that are too big, but ultra thin cotton or silk is great for this. It just takes longer to wrap it while you wind, but it is how I made all 13, well 11 of the galvanic ones I made.
QuoteUse the lincoln welding rods r60 copper covered steel alloy for your cores, it is the same bedini uses for his coils for high frequency switching
Thanks for the tip.
I have no more excuses now, I will build one on welding rod.
:D
Quote, obviously the idea of using a transistor it is a must,
It works with a transistor.
I used it as the toroid of the joule thief and it works.
Now, it needs to be its own battery for the final job using a transistor, but I promise you it works.
Thank you k-k-god,
@jim
Amazing find!
Please do me a big favor.
Take a few threads of the cleanest cloth there, and light them.
then take a whiff of the smoke.
Does it smell like wood burning?
I wonder if that resin is lac from the lac beetle, or polymerized linseed oil or maybe pine sap resin?
That might be interesting to burn too.
jeanna
The Lincoln er70s-6 has lower carbon and much higher silicone and copper content.
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:GDWZfPgTC_4J:content.lincolnelectric.com/pdfs/products/literature/c910.pdf+lincoln+welding+rods+r60+copper+covered+steel+alloy&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShFXOHhccQRjPmoxeN_D35S1xsL8R1Vf2N19aRzMFgEeAsK2tuq73BXXnjSZYK9v4jB76vOM1yZ5SoA4O11YySiTSywlIqKwcFmlva0JpO1dhR49skOvES7l9RqZaM2prNhfSNP&sig=AHIEtbSTwl4NG_3AKL6haL1Dslms6HzxGQ
Boy, that was a lucky strike Jim...hope his leads to a breakthough.
If the coil was indeed bound with hemp rope, there is a possibility that the resin may also be hemp.
So...you might want to position yourself nearer or farther from the smoke, as the case may be, when you do the 'burn test'.
Regards...
@all,
Thank you everyone for the kind remarks and hopefully some of the suggested tests people have asked for, I will do as soon as I possably can.
Copper dimentions, turns etc must wait until I can build/buy some PVC down pipe and end caps so this coil dosent fall into a heep of copper sprials when I begin to unwind it, and I need some empty spools to wind the copper wires onto as the unwinding proceeds.
Late last night I carrried out two soak test on a small 1/2 inch by 1/4 inch area of the cotton fibres.
I used a syringe to put a single drop of water on the side of the sample while I could look at it under the microscope, it took about 5-6 seconds before for the water began to be absorbed, I put the slow absorbsion down to the fibres being compressed and ultra dry over all these years.
The sample slowly absorbed the water drop, I noticed there was a type of bubbling reaction only at first for about a second, then the cotton fibers began to swell and in about 20 seconds the sample had absorbed the water drop.
This occurred both times
This morning, the sample was seen to be dry once again.
I'm thinking of sending a fairly large sample to someone in the forum who is centraslly located or could divvy it up and send to those who have the most experience or want to have some input in giving their opinion on it, this will include Cotton, String and the two copper wires, why, well cross matching independant testing will verify all results. I could miss something and someone else could pick up on anything missed.
I will answer all those who posted questions to me shortly, in a seperate post.
But first here is the USB Microscope Photos of the FIRST water test I did late last night.
jim
017 = Water droplet is applied
018 = Cotton sample can be seen starting to swell from bottom of sample
019 = Sample continues to swell
020 = Sample is almost full
021 = sample test is now stopped as it has soaked up all the water.
@all, SECOND water test.
This is the second test I did on the same sample, I had identical results as the first sample.
The photos will show you better than I could explain it.
jim
022 = Test begins
023 = cotton begins to swell as the water is soaked accross the sample
024 = Cotton still absorbing the water drop
125 = Test almost done
026 = What sample looks like when dry.
@ electricme
very nice samples.. i used some old cotton bed sheets and i didn't know if they were brown from the dirt or the mild steel alloy i was using.. thanks
@ all
stupid question here
what kind of reading do you get if you were to use the magnesium ribbon wire..
i don't have any ribbon or i would try.. all i got is the alloy wire and it has to be wet and doped to work good..
maybe i will have time to work more on this stuff once i get done with family life stuff with my little girl..
i finaling got some OU with my tpu studies but i think i have neglected my wife in the process.. (not a good thing)
so it might be a couple months before i get to work again in overunity..
you guys and girls are doing good work in this area.. best of luck
i got some solar lights running on this same tech.. they get dim i just dope them with some miracle grow and hello.. bright again..haha
robbie
Good job robbie,
I get 1.7v max but as soon as I begin to use it it goes down to 1.4v.
That is still higher than a well charged NiMH so it works with any joule thief.
I can add 4 inches more ribbon to the clip just at the soil and it is good to go for another time which is usually a week.
@jim,
Great photos. I love that microscope!
jeanna
@ Jeanna
Here is the BURN sample test you wanted me to do.
Did it smell like wood?
2654 = Sample of cotton held in a small alligator clip which was held in turn in my vice
2655 = Sample is alight, sorry I didn't get it in the whole frame, things went so fast.
2656 By the time I got the bell jar over it and took this photo it had burnt through, but I got enough sample gas to give a answer.
Smell test, yes a bit like wood burning but diferent.
The back of my tongue went funny, a bit dry like.
I managed to suck some burnt vapor into a syrenge to take a wiff at later on, its only burnt 100 year old cotton folks, nothing like the hippies were doing way back when at woodstock, I don't smoke or drink, hmmmm will I get wobbly eyes? ha ha
USB microscope sample after test
027 = The carbon remnant
028 = Close up of remnant
jim
@ All
I have done a Cotton Comparison test between the old cotton and a newer cotton on a reel.
In photo 029, the top bit is a tiny amount of old cotton fiber, the middle single white line is the single cotton thread from the reel.
As you can see, the newer cotton is very similar in dimensions and texture, so I see no problems in using modern cotton in today's Stubblefield coils, except, is there a difference if one uses Polester Cotton as is in big Overlocker reels?
jim
Thanks Jim,
It is cotton for sure. I don't know about the funny taste and dryness, but burnt seracin smells like burnt hair so you would never mix them up. And it is certainly not hemp, of course.
Thanks for doing that.
The new one on the reel looks like mercerized cotton and the older UN-mercerized.
OK, no more excuses for me.
I keep saying that.
I don't know how I am going to attach the 3 spools into one long one for the coil replication.
And, I still only have a short al or fe wire and need to make them longer too.
Did Lasersaber ever say what he did?
jeanna
What Im particularly interested in is the specific core material. Being that old a college with a spectrometer or other means can give you the specific chemistry makeup. If it was manufactured by a company there may even be a history of it.
Did it appear like cotton between the lamination's? Did the farmer have any info on it?
Quote from: jeanna on May 13, 2010, 03:45:20 PM
OK, no more excuses for me.
I keep saying that.
I don't know how I am going to attach the 3 spools into one long one for the coil replication.
And, I still only have a short al or fe wire and need to make them longer too.
Did Lasersaber ever say what he did?
jeanna
Jeanna:
You could weld them together by melting the wire ends but, if it were me, I would just cut the ends of the wire on an angle, match them together and solder them. There should be no real tensional stresses on these once wound and then you can splice the cotton sleeve ends together by sewing them with cotton thread.
The soldered joint might change the inductance by a teeny tiny small negligible fraction of an amount. The purists will warn you about this but, if you want to see how little this will be, just take two 6" pieces of the wire and cut one of them in half. Solder back together and test that against your other uncut 6" piece. I would bet you won't be able to tell a difference.
Anyway, just a thought. Jim and I were discussing this very thing the other day.
Bill
PS Depending upon your wire gauge and the size of your soldering gun or iron, you may need to use a propane torch...even a small one would do it well.
Quote from: Pirate88179 on May 13, 2010, 04:35:51 PM
Jeanna:
You could weld them together by melting the wire ends but, if it were me, I would just cut the ends of the wire on an angle, match them together and solder them. .....
PS Depending upon your wire gauge and the size of your soldering gun or iron, you may need to use a propane torch...even a small one would do it well.
Hmm, I don't have the tools to hold the cut wires together while I weld them with a torch.
Perhaps, I will solder them first.
Actually, I will probably use the ends as they are, and see how I am doing, but from looking at lasersaber's I think it needs to be all 3 spools of copper with matching Aluminum.
I know I can't weld the aluminum, and I did not realize I could use a propane torch (which I DO have) to weld the copper. I thought I had to braze the copper.
Tell me, how long should it take to get the copper hot enough to melt?
(10 seconds or 3 minutes kind of thing - this will tell me what kind of rig I need to set up to hold it together.)
Actually the reason I was avoiding the non welded joint, was that I wanted to avoid a spark jumping the gap and wrecking things. Now, dcc said I could shrink wrap (the magnesium) so I think I could try that here; maybe if I solder it, shrinkwrapping will isolate any spark from the rest of the coil.
Thanks for the great info,
jeanna
Jeanna:
Maybe I was not clear in my post. I said you could weld them but you should just solder them instead. A propane torch would be for soldering not welding...it is not hot enough. If the wire is say, 10 gauge, your soldering iron may not make enough heat to solder them which is why I suggested the use of a propane torch.
We used to use propane torches when soldering our ultrasonic drills into the mounting adapter. It works well and is just like soldering a water pipe made of copper. Same rules apply, clean surfaces, some flux, etc.
The reason to cut the wire on an angle is to allow for more surface area contact. These could be held in alignment in a number of simple ways. Then, just heat the wire...apply the solder to the hot wire, watch it flow and poof...you are done.
There should be no way any spark would be made to jump in the primary but, if you are still concerned, some plastic tubing insulation over the joint would not hurt.
I'm sorry if it sounded like I said you could weld the wire with a propane torch. Maybe Mapp gas, I am not sure but oxy-acetylene for sure.
I have soldered my windings in my Bedini coils when I ran out of mag wire. I was told you could not join them but I have and it works just fine.
I hope I am more clear this time.
Bill
@ Jeanna,
Quote from: jeanna on May 13, 2010, 03:45:20 PM
I don't know how I am going to attach the 3 spools into one long one for the coil replication.
And, I still only have a short al or fe wire and need to make them longer too.
Did Lasersaber ever say what he did?
jeanna
Don't remember how he did it, but when I joined two copper wires I have 3 methods.
A clean the insulation and solder.
B BUTT join and solder or weld
C just weld with a hot flame.
As Bill mentioned, he and I spoke to each other about this very same thing just recently.
I have actually welded 2 copper wires together using oxy torch and have tried with a small propane torch, if you could feed some oxy itself into the propane brass mix area, the oxygen will defiantly be much hotter and do the weld.
You can hold the wires using 2 small alligator clips in the vice (just like I did with the cotton burn test for you), overlap the copper wires 1/8th of an inch, make sure they touch, then heat them in the middle, the wires will get red, then orange, then yellow, then you will have to remove the flame the instant the metal melts or it will form a big bead and drop out/off the wire.
You can try BUTT welding the wires, as the right temp is reached, just move one wire against the other wire the very moment the 2 beads form and remove the flame.
Next, using a small "file", file the bead back into a round profile the same size of the wires. Re insulate with nail varnish, perhaps 2 coats and then continue the winds. Don't forget to "touch up" with nail varnish where the 2 clips were holding the wires, just in case there are micro brakes in the insulation.
jim
@ Iota Yodi
Quote from: IotaYodi on May 13, 2010, 03:55:50 PM
What Im particularly interested in is the specific core material. Being that old a college with a spectrometer or other means can give you the specific chemistry makeup. If it was manufactured by a company there may even be a history of it.
Did it appear like cotton between the lamination's? Did the farmer have any info on it?
The farmer hasnt any idea about this as I havent been in touch with him since I bought the coil, but I'm pritty sure he wouldn't even know what I would be talking about if I asked him, but I am going to be in contact with him and ask how and where did he get it from.
I have already had thoughts about taking a sample to the UNI in Toowoomba and ask them if they might do a small spectrometer test on it.
I have a contact name from my old telescope making days, in the astronomy science building and will give him a phone call, see what can be done, lets hope he still works there ;)
jim
@ Jeanna
Quote from: jeanna on May 13, 2010, 06:37:16 PM
I know I can't weld the aluminum, and I did not realize I could use a propane torch (which I DO have) to weld the copper. I thought I had to braze the copper.
jeanna
Aluminium can be welded, but once again it is difficult, the trick is not to break the surface tension during the process, using too much heat, very difficult for a beginner and experience counts.
@all,
Made a boo boo yesterday, I forgot to take my coil to town with me and get some PVC pipe fittings to continue the dismantling of this coil, duhh ::) , so I have to go back in again, never mind, it's gota be done, so you all have a nice sleep while I do things, ha ha.
jim
@Bill and Jim,
Thank you both.
Yes, Bill I misunderstood you. I did think you were telling me to use propane to weld it. I thought you could not and I am grateful for the clarification.
propane to solder the copper.
nah!
I would love to have a soapstone table top, or even firebrick. Then I would do this, but I am not going to bend over to do this on my garage floor. nah!
I will solder it with a solder iron. This is 24 gauge copper wrapped with cotton. It will be fine.
But first I will check out what I get from one third of what I have, and I will show what happens.
thanks,
jeanna
Jeanna:
Yes, you have got it now. I am sorry I was not clear earlier, I was in a hurry.
@ All:
Lidmotor has just posted his replication of Lasersaber's Stubblefield coil here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhSyAhWZq24&playnext_from=TL&videos=tVb6_EsIBN0&feature=recentu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhSyAhWZq24&playnext_from=TL&videos=tVb6_EsIBN0&feature=recentu)
This looks good.
Bill
It's great to see another working coil, even if it is being helped out a little by a battery. :)
I'm thinking that the iron wire and bolts are going to prove problematic. I built my coil much the same as Lidmotor and got very similar results.
I have ordered a batch of ten of those same cores that Lasersaber used from SargentWelch.com...waiting for delivery now. I'll be rebuilding my existing coil using one of those cores to compare the results.
I've also found a source of cotton covered wire here in Oregon...custom made to order for around the same price from the UK. So when I use up my glass covered wire, I'll be ordering some of that.
QuoteI've also found a source of cotton covered wire here in Oregon.
I hope its not a secret! :)
Quote from: IotaYodi on May 14, 2010, 09:11:21 AM
I hope its not a secret! :)
It is. ;D
Actually, I asked him whether he'd mind if gave out his contact information here and he hasn't responded yet.
I don't think people understand.
Lidmotor did not get it to work. :( :'(
He asked for help from anyone who HAS made one that works.
afaik, laser is the only one in this century who has accomplished that one and he seems to be busy somewhere else.
I am glad to hear you, hoverdj will be making one too.
I have spent today so far making a reed switch motor like the one I bought from a kit.
It must be very fiddly.
I can hear the reed making its little click much of the time, but it will not take off.
This is with 1.2v AAA. I will now add a pair of them just to see if that is the problem, but this NS needs to work on about 0.3v, so even if I can get it, it won't be too great for the NS.
My kit is made with a nail and I bought a plastic electric box ($0.99) that has 2 nails which seem to be very soft iron.
I am loath to spend 40 bucks on something that is so cheap. eesh.
But, if yours works hoverdj, I will, because it is the only thing remaining.
I am glad you are doing this and I look forward to what you get for results.
AND, why on earth would a company NOT want the business?
thank you,
jeanna
Jeanna:
I have already pm'd lidmotor on Youtube with some suggestions for him. Both of my coils worked very well, for their small size anyway. The only thing I did not do was add a secondary which, is my next project when I get some more time.
As I have discussed with Jim, I am going to try to skip ahead and used a ferrite core and transistor to pulse the secondary. We will see if this works....or not. To me this would be better for placing in the ground without needing a spinning wheel for the make/break.
Bill
Hi Bill,
I am not sure what that means.
Neither of us got anything off the secondary , which means that the coil part was not operating.
I only got action from my secondary when I hooked it up to a transistor and a battery.
I needed the battery, too.
I am curious to see what you are going to get and if it will be more than a couple of probes in the earth.
I think the plant battery coupled with the joule thief is the closest thing to this, because it is using the earth for the battery source to run a coil that operates a secondary, but I am not getting this NS dealy to work... even with 2.6v.
Next I will make the rotor smaller in diameter to be more like the kit. Laser's was pretty big, so this should not make a difference, but I have a smaller spool so I will try it.
jeanna
Quote from: jeanna on May 14, 2010, 03:30:15 PM
I don't think people understand.
Lidmotor did not get it to work. :( :'(
You're right...sorry if I confused anyone. I was speaking only about the rotor spinning, but that's not what we're trying to accomplish here.
Quote
I am loath to spend 40 bucks on something that is so cheap. eesh.
But, if yours works hoverdj, I will, because it is the only thing remaining.
Better than $1800 on the Permalloy rod of the same size that I found. :o
I believe, based on the results I see with my coil, that the bolts are not going to work as well as I had hoped. The problem I have, is that I don't really know what "soft iron" was. Yes, we all have lots of ideas (bolts, nails, metal that easily attracts magnets), but what was it,
really, when Stubblefield made his coil - and what is it's analog today, if there is one? I'm sure that there are many better materials available today...just a matter of finding them at a price that we're willing pay.
Quote
AND, why on earth would a company NOT want the business?
I found the guy on EBay and I got the impression from talking to him that he only does it as a hobby and may not have time to fulfill a lot of requests. For my wire (16g) he'd have to babysit his machine the whole couple of hours it'd take to make my wire.
Darryl
Quote from: jeanna on May 14, 2010, 04:12:31 PM
Hi Bill,
I am not sure what that means.
Neither of us got anything off the secondary , which means that the coil part was not operating.
jeanna
Jeanna:
Both of my coils were working just fine. I had decent output and they also were magnetic on the core. I NEVER tried winding a secondary of any kind so It is not like mine did not work, it was never tried....yet.
I had buried both coils to test the primaries which worked as they should have. Then, remember, I fried my larger coil when I got it up to 476 mA's of output by adding a bit of vinegar to the surrounding soil. That was the end of that coil, ha ha.
I may be wrong but I am confident that if I make on as before and add a secondary with a make/break, I should see "something" from the secondary.
Time will tell. I just picked up more night work for the weekend and every night for the next 6 nights!!! It may take me a while.
Bill
Quotebut what was it, really, when Stubblefield made his coil - and what is it's analog
today,
Soft iron is a a general term for high iron content and low carbon. 1018 steel has been the most common for a very long time. It is high iron content and low carbon but still leaves a little remanence at least with dc current. It is easily depolarized with a magnet or ac current. 1018 is the closest one I know of that NS would have used. Most newer bolts are galvanized steel but their chemistry may not have enough iron content or too much carbon.
Ill make a deal here. If at least 4 people want one of these Ill order them then send them out. Its ten of them for about $40. Dont know the shipping. So I estimate less than ten bucks a piece. They are about 1/2" dia. and 6 inches long. Pm me if interested.
http://sargentwelch.com/soft-iron-rod/p/IG0038157/
@all
Any of you tried the there coils with one avramenko plug , with one end of the coil to the plug and the other one touching the rod ?
I am asking because of tesla one wire circuitry , we usually assume that we nee to connect both ends of a wire to get juice ...
I have given so tough to the construction of a ns battery/motor/battery charger , i am sure a can get a easier way to make those .
I plan on using sheets of copper and aluminum or soft iron and slice them 1/4 of and inch wide and solder them the regular way to get them long enough then assemble them in individual coils of many turns thick with some cotton between them.
Them repeat the same operation many times and connect them in series .
I will use core used in some electromagnets a got around or a ignition coil core .
I will try to make four of them the rotor will be large enough to sit on top of the four NS battery , that large rotor will have 2 rows of magnets one for each end of the NS coils positioned in a cross design .
Modern equivalent is a AAA battery and one electromagnet ...
The secret in the patent was how to get power from the secondary , and no switching is mentioned , its not about unknown power source ...
It a self oscillating transformer . i can see clf lighting on those ...
Mark
OK Bill,
I am glad you have work.
I am going to pack up and go for the weekend.
This isn't working yet, and I will smile when I see my little red EER.
Darryl,
Yikes $1800. And you don't even know if it works.
N Stubblefield said something along the lines that he wanted something his farmer neighbors could use and get from the barn, or at least a common thing.
Trouble is of course... what was common then?
Tesla referred to the "common induction coil"!
common?
OK, I went to the dollar store for some crazy glue for my reed switch motor copy.
After another episode in conversation with the owner he said, try the iron works. they have everything.
So, I drove a half hour to the iron works only to see that they don't sell retail.
eesh!
But the sec'y talked with me and gave me a local iron art place that will be open next week and may have this and will sell it. (I am pretty sure that the blanks for wrought iron are what will do the trick here.)
It is NOT special iron.
In my little motor the iron was supplied by a nail.
That is why I was thinking the nail in the electrical box might be non magnetic enough or whatever.
First, I need to get the reed switch motor to work with a battery like lidmotor's from yesterday. Once it works, I am going to run through all my NS coils I already have, then, if there is not one of them that works, I will make one that has what all of them do not have. (the right stuff to make it work! ;D )
But, I need to plant 4 trees and 4 bushes into the ground. The weather is getting too warm to put it off any more.
Have a nice weekend everybody!
jeanna
edit add
Hi Mark,
Yes, It is basically a joule thief running off the ground.
(and, I have 5 of those running right now.)
In a way the quest for this is sort of over in my mind, except there is no need for a transistor.
I like the flexibility of knowing how to make something like this without a transistor, but I love the jtc, as you know.
Carry on. It is always adding to our knowledge. And, I like that.
Stubblefield states in the patent on the portion regarding the secondary
The magnetic field produced by the current tranversing the coil-body induced a secondary current in the solenoid or secondary coil, when the ordinary make and break of the primary current induced within the coil in made between the terminals of the coil.
Looking at the traditional induction coil design I found that a spark often occured between the 2 terminals.
also in regards to cores. Permalloy and mu-metal are not good for electromagnet cores. Iron-nickel alloys have insanely high permeability (permalloy) however really low saturation points. Infact, Permalloy is anisotropic, meaning that depending on it direction to the earths magnetic field, it becomes magnetic.
Iron-Cobalt is the best for electromagnets
Silicon Iron is not so bad
STAY AWAY FROM Iron-Nickel alloy CORES for ELECTROMAGNETS
From our experience in the JT topic, high permeability ferrite appears to work the best so far.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on May 14, 2010, 11:05:36 PM
From our experience in the JT topic, high permeability ferrite appears to work the best so far.
Bill
Ferrite has a high permeability that is true, but my concern is with magnetic flux density which is I believe more important than permeability in this case(NS coil) because of the low amount of power in the primary.
I dont know much about the joule thief, i have seen them power leds from nearly dead batteries, but how does it "step-up" dc?
@alchemist
Thanks for that description of Nickel Iron materials. That cleared things up for me.
@Jeanna
It's a good thing I didn't buy that Permalloy rod, eh? :)
Quote from: alchemist123 on May 15, 2010, 12:09:51 AM
Ferrite has a high permeability that is true, but my concern is with magnetic flux density which is I believe more important than permeability in this case(NS coil) because of the low amount of power in the primary.
I dont know much about the joule thief, i have seen them power leds from nearly dead batteries, but how does it "step-up" dc?
Well, I don't pretend to know everything there is to know about the JT circuit here. I do know that you are correct, they can operate on nearly dead batteries at low volt and very low power levels.
The basic JT is a bifilar wound ferrite toroid using a small transistor like the 2n3904. We have moved on to the more advanced designs, such as Jeanna's Circuit, which has a collector coil, a base coil and an emitter coil all wound on the same toroid.
Anyway, the Stubblefield coil is basically a JT. You hit it with pulses and out of the secondary comes AC. For the best spikes of BEMF we can get from either the JT or the NS coil, I believe we want core material that can handle having a magnetic field, and then not having one, many thousands of time/second, with a very fast collapse. The ferrite cores we have been using operate easily up in the 20-30 KHz range.
This will be an experiment or a series of experiments that I will do. I am not really suggesting that others buy ferrite for the core as, to my knowledge, it has never been tried. I am also going to try a very similar transistor like the 2n3904. This may not work, it may not work at all. Or.....?
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on May 15, 2010, 02:21:33 AM
Well, I don't pretend to know everything there is to know about the JT circuit here. I do know that you are correct, they can operate on nearly dead batteries at low volt and very low power levels.
The basic JT is a bifilar wound ferrite toroid using a small transistor like the 2n3904. We have moved on to the more advanced designs, such as Jeanna's Circuit, which has a collector coil, a base coil and an emitter coil all wound on the same toroid.
Anyway, the Stubblefield coil is basically a JT. You hit it with pulses and out of the secondary comes AC. For the best spikes of BEMF we can get from either the JT or the NS coil, I believe we want core material that can handle having a magnetic field, and then not having one, many thousands of time/second, with a very fast collapse. The ferrite cores we have been using operate easily up in the 20-30 KHz range.
This will be an experiment or a series of experiments that I will do. I am not really suggesting that others buy ferrite for the core as, to my knowledge, it has never been tried. I am also going to try a very similar transistor like the 2n3904. This may not work, it may not work at all. Or.....?
Bill
I agree. Rapid demagnetization after the break is essential. Coercivity i think its called. Oddly enough, the iron-nickel alloys have low coercivity. However thats at a trade-off for low saturation points ( example: permalloy ). Core choice seems to be key. Cost wise iron or silicon iron/steel are the cheapest, and are pretty good overall, with low coercivity and low retentivity. However the extent that some of these "neo" alloys can enhance output is ridiculous, i was reading about Hiperco A50, high permeability and really high flux density. Flux density determines how many ampere-turns is needed to generate a certain strength magnetic field. The higher the flux density of the core the less amount of current is needed to generate a strong magnetic field.
I have a question for you, how do you know what transistor to use? i dont understand the codes, why 2n3904?
Ferrite, Iron, Silicon Iron can all be scrapped from various appliances.
@ all,
I bought the PVC items I needed to support the coil while I unroll the turns to find out further secrets in it's manufacture, and another secret has unfolded in the process.
While I was handling the coil, another bit fell off the outside of the coil, and by the look of it, it is cotton "tape" which has been applied to hold all the turns securly.
If you can imagine a cotton bandage one applies to a leg or arm, the next layer is applied halfway over the previous layer, and is wound the length of the bandage.
So I believe this is the same process which has been applied on this coil.
I made a support for the coil out of wood scraps, drilled a single hole in the middle of 2 PVC end caps and assembled everything together, it worked, the coil rotates without binding so there will be no problems in that area.
However, there is a problem, the cotton will break as one side is stretched on one side of the copper wires as the wires are unwound off the coil, so I have plunged the coil in a 2 gal bucket of water.
This will (I hope) allow any cotton to keep together as the wires are unwound, tomorrow will tell.
jim
2681 = Dry coil mounted in the unwinding jig (had to take it out soon after).
2685 = Here it goes, into the bucket for a dunking
2687 = oops, its all wet now
030 = The final Cotton binding to help keep it all together.
@ Alchemist123:
How do I know what transistor to use? I don't. I just happen to have a lot of experience with the 2n3904 with our JT circuit work. It will take a battery down to about .35 volts and still operate. A germanium transistor will go even lower but are harder to find.
IF my idea is correct then, there are probably many transistors that will work also. n222, n3055, TIP3055, etc. IF this works then we can explore what the optimum transistor might be to use. A lot of guesswork here.
@ Jim:
That looks like you are trying to unwrap a mummy, ha ha. Best of luck. I like your jig you made.
@ Jeanna:
Have a great time and we will see you upon your return.
Bill
@all
Before going to a transistor remember the coil needs to be watered once in a while , or will be outside .
Also coming back the the open ended circuit ala tesla , remember that a battery is one open ended device , like an antenna but the air void is filed by electrolyte as a substitute.
I know i am going a bit far , and hope its not lost on you.
Keep the good work everyone !
Mark
At Bill,
The mummy unwrapping is the best, ha ha., you have described the process to a T. ;D
A KEY to remember
If anyone actually obtains a Stubblefield coil, please do not unwrap it UNTIL, and I emphasise this, UNTIL it is thoroughly SOAKED in water.
My reasons are this.
The cotton WILL snap very easily since it has had no moisture, the age of being dry promotes this.
I was a little apprehensive in putting my coil in a water bucket overnight, I'm sure glad I did do this or I would have had a fearsome mess on my hands.
I had wondered for a while just how much "cotton overlap" would be needed between each layer, the answer is below.
Here is another KEY.
There is a SINGLE SHEET of Cotton BETWEEN EVERY LAYOR of coils, this cotton separator is of the same texture and type of the cotton I have seen and posted before here.
Its dimensions are 17 1/2 inches long by 7 inches wide, whoever made this coil used a rain drop size dollop of black substance to stick the 1 1/2 inch overlap down onto itself, so the next layer turns could be wound on the top of the cotton barrier layer. Don't know what the sticky dollop is, could be HYMEG, which was a substance we used to insulate rewound coils 4 decades back, it was red in colour then, very thick, a bit like red treacle or malasis.
So there is no need to sew the layer onto the coil, the coil will work OK.
So far the TOP outer cotton layer is almost a total write off, but the next layer lying below the 1st secondary Layer, is in almost good to excellent condition.
This will give anyone who has a genuine stubblefield coil some comfort knowing this, and I wouldn't be surprised if the next cotton layers don't get better the deeper I go exploring this coil.
I don't expect the last cotton layer to be in good condition, as the actual Last Last inside layer came off in several parts about two hours ago.
jim
2707 = Coil is mounted after a good overnight soaking in a 2 gallon bucket of water, what a mess.
2719 = EeeeHarrrr, Cotton tape, actually it's a sheet of cotton, full length and width on the coil.
2720 = As I removed the cotton sheet it looked like this
2721 = Cotton sheet layed out flat on my "red" walkway.
2723 = The "overlap" how much it actually is
@ MK1,
Quote from: Mk1 on May 15, 2010, 05:25:40 PM
@all
Before going to a transistor remember the A needs to be watered once in a while , or will be outside .
Also coming back the the open ended circuit ala tesla , remember that a battery is one open ended device , like an antenna but the air void is filed by electrolyte as a substitute.
I know i am going a bit far , and hope its not lost on you.
Keep the good work everyone !
Mark
Well said Mark, exactly, spot on.
Any device to work must have it's "circuit" closed, for instance, the single 1.5volt cell + goes to the bottom contact of the torch bulb, the - goes to the side of the same bulb, the bulb will light up.
If you have any connection not making contact, the bulb won't work.
So it will be with the Stubblefield coil, but here there are 2 different circuits involved.
The primary which is the bifilar turns of Copper and Iron wires, and the secondary, whose job it is to power the bulb or motor etc etc.
Our problem as I see it is to get the primary bifilar to work, which creates the magnetic fields which the secondary is immersed in.
Marks idea and Bills and others to try transistors is good, but we need to figure out a circuit and part of this is a trigerring solid state device as most people here haven't got their heads around the right way to setup a mechanical make or break switch, distances to place the switch at or mechanical tension and spring compressions that would be needed by it.
BTW, to everyone, just a general question.
What would be your personal reactions if someone ever said they had a Stubblefield coil in their possession?
WOW wouldn't that be great, lol.
NO I don't have one, the closest I have seen to one is this coil I have been taking apart on this forum, but there's a photo of 4 propped up in a row on a table top, which was posted several months ago.
jim
@ All:
I just want to be clear about something here. My idea of attempting to use a transistor like the 2n3904 on the NS coil for the make/break system is just that, an idea.
What I mean to say is that at this time, I do not claim to know how to wire one up. I believe this will take some trial and error, mostly error no doubt. What I do think will be very important is the use of a VR to tune to the coil. In my opinion, this will probably be the thing that makes it possible, IF indeed it is possible.
I just did not want folks to think I have this all figured out. I don't.
@ Jim:
Just got back in from my night job. Time for a few beers and to bed so I can get up for my day job, ha ha.
Bill
Quote from: electricme on May 16, 2010, 09:17:53 PM
@ MK1,
Well said Mark, exactly, spot on.
Any device to work must have it's "circuit" closed, for instance, the single 1.5volt cell + goes to the bottom contact of the torch bulb, the - goes to the side of the same bulb, the bulb will light up.
I used to think this too - but my Tesla Coil (which is perhaps very different to what you guys are working on....but im not so sure....might also be applicable) will light bulbs on the secondary wire when both ends of the single wire hang free (open circuit?? no??).
The reason i think it might be applicable is that if one end is connected to a toroid (capacitor in air), and the other FIRMLY grounded, I get far more amps in the secondary (well - the bulbs are brighter anyway).
Anyway, I aint an expert, so probably best to take everything i say with a pinch of salt.
Good work all of you and keep it up - i'll be watching.
@all
i will clarify my toughs , in the NS battery unless i am mistaken you need to connect the copper and iron at one end leaving the other end open , like a regular battery electrodes do not touch they have an electrolyte barrier , in the NS the barrier is cotton ( dose natural fiber act as carrier as a substitute for typical electrolyte ) and corrosion and earth for electrolyte.
This is not unlike having two antenna with dissimilar metals , and by antenna i mean ground rod and coil optional aerial (air high freq electrolyte earth slower one) . I you guys see what i am getting at ...
Now usually the more surface area of both metals are in close proximity the more amps you get , but what ever is done the battery it self will generate only . 6 volt , about the same with copper and aluminum .
It is enough for a motor but we could at one point imagine having a relay type switching system , more volts will be needed .
Now more volts , in the battery drawing by NS there is 5 layer if each layer are divided each layer gives .6 volts then connect them in series and get 3 volts , at lower amps .
I have found sheets of copper , aluminum , zinc ( zinc/copper NS coil 1.1 volts) , even better magnesium ribbon you cut the copper sheet or tape same size as the ribbon and cotton divider in between . The sheet offers more surface area (more amps) at higher voltages from zinc or magnesium.
The patent shows 5 layer and many rows i bet it would be easy to match the turn count .
All and all i can imagine having those coil directly on a transformer core that way we could put a decent secondary coil .
Ok i hope this made more sense .
@Pirate
Don't worry ;D i mean maybe some hot glue on the transistor and components.
Mark
@MK1,
I'm having trouble coming to grips with the consept that the stubblefield coil could be able to access energy by anything rather than a magnetic field.
Maybe if I explain it this way, it took me a while to accept the fact that there were some people (not I) on the Joule Thief forum who could light a tube with one wire, and I think this is the consept you are putting here that the stubblefield coil can do.
But then again, there are other devices that are capable of doing this, so it isn't a real surprise.
I also realise this Stubblefield coil is a different energy device to most others that I have come across, but by golly, if I ever see a stubblefield coil working as you discribe, you will get no negative words from me, only positive ones.
@all,
My biggist problem right now is access to insulated copper wire, its the freight and dollar exchange rate over to my neck of the woods that is the killer, far too expensieve, so I have to make a cotton winding jig to make what I should be able to buy, siiiii. I driven literally hundreds and hundreds of miles looking for any electrical place that sells cotton covered wire, no one makes it here.
Never mind, I have been drawing mechanical plans involving counter rotating pullies, PWM powered DC motors, cotton tensioning springs wing nuts etc etc, buying bits and pieces I need to make it and I will get this made, if I can make a 2 ton telescope with electric zoom and focus,,,,,it all takes time and effort.
@Bill,
Well, what can I say, lol just don't go to sleep on the job.
jim
QuoteI'm having trouble coming to grips with the consept that the stubblefield coil could be able to access energy by anything rather than a magnetic field.
Coils have a parallel resonant frequency as well as a magnetic field. The less turns of wire the higher the frequency and the more turns the lower the frequency. More power in lower frequency's. I think once the coil is in resonance and tuned to the Earths magnetic field and/or telluric currents, the make/break switch will stay closed conducting power. If this is true then an external NS coil using external power might be brought into resonance and tested.
A question I have is how the radiant energy interacts with the earths magnetic field thats coupled to the coils magnetic field.
Quote from: IotaYodi on May 17, 2010, 01:10:24 PM
A question I have is how the radiant energy interacts with the earths magnetic field thats coupled to the coils magnetic field.
To pose a wider theoretical question?
What effect does radiant energy from the universe at large have on any atmospheric wire collection system, or also any earth battery system? Taking either of these to the bottom of a very deep mine would have what effect in power output compared to surface readings?
--Lee
@all
Earth magnetic field is a constant , and usually can be ignored , because nothing on earth is without it , magnetic and gravity are a couple working in symbioses weight of objects are related to location not the objects ... (weight less in space yet nothing changed in the material structure )
This means that anything in relative proximity of earth is filed magnetically and statically , now the kick is most likely explained by the introduction of a second field in mater of electrical source that causes a violent reaction in mater (core even wire) .
All that being said , kapanze uses a radiator to pick up radiant energy from the ground (radiator/radiant lol).
This is the only way it makes sense ...
QuoteEarth magnetic field is a constant , and usually can be ignored
There is a constant field but the field changes intensity and direction. I dont think it can be ignored as far as the NS coil goes when in the ground. Without a magnetic field there can be no current. Without the on/off of the current flow there can be no bemf which creates the radiant energy in the coil.
Quote from: IotaYodi on May 17, 2010, 06:00:24 PM
There is a constant field but the field changes intensity and direction. I dont think it can be ignored as far as the NS coil goes when in the ground. Without a magnetic field there can be no current. Without the on/off of the current flow there can be no bemf which creates the radiant energy in the coil.
Yes the coil is on and off ;) , but that changes nothing to earth magnetic field , it is still on regardless of the battery or coil being on or off ,the constant is earth field not the coil ...
That is why it is most certainly ignored in usual electronics , it doesn't mean it is not there , all i am saying is that its always there and would most likely explained the physical reaction (bemf) it is like trying to fill a bucket of water that is already full (earth field)...
So the wire already is full , and adding more only disturbs the standing earth field.
Hi everybody,
What I don't get is why we are still talking about this as though there was still nobody who could make this.
Why doesn't anybody else want to make one like lasersaber's?
I am doing that to the best of my ability.
I can and will fool around with it later... after I get a copy working.
I was having trouble getting the reed switch motor to work and if I cannot get this, I will be forced to take apart the little kit I made. I will do that if I must, but really, I think lasersaber understood this and has shown us how to make the NS generator work.
Lidmotor and I have not been able to follow.
Are there no other takers?
jeanna
edit
Lidmotor just posted a video where he uses the slayer007 sec exciter to his stubblefield generator with only 1 wire.
This is probably about using it as a receiver and antenna.
I found mine to be a good receiver, some might recall.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzGjjG41k4s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzGjjG41k4s)
No doubt the Earths field is always there. The coil when energized will change the Earths magnetic field somewhat thats in close proximity to the coil.
I think I see what your saying about the Earths magnetic field helping to cause bemf. The collapse of the coil cores magnetic field induces a current into the wire which simultaneously creates a magnetic field and radiant energy {dc only} in the wire,which then interacts with the earths steady magnetic field. From what Ive read,radiant energy in a wire can only be created by a pulsed dc current and thats when the current is first turned on. This all seems to revert back to the Earths iron core.
@jeanna
Making a copy for me is out of the question those wire are quite high for me and most , Laser saber made one with copper iron and one with aluminum copper , both work the voltage shown and exactly spot on for the galvanic pair . This shows me that the wire doesn't have to be iron , but would iron be better for the secondary that is the question .
So i choose to go with what i know for sure , and build on it without searching for magical current the basic concept is quite interesting as his .
Unless i don't believe that lasersaber did do it , to me it is solved , and the best part he just fallowed the directions carefully without inputting his own bias , and got it to work ...
My point is the patent clearly state the use of galvanic , and the patent is for a battery that is an electromagnet at the same time .
Electromagnets you can't get more basic then that .
But i get the idea that he switch it with 2 spark gap and a cap.
Anyway i should be able to show it soon.
Quote from: Mk1 on May 17, 2010, 10:38:07 PM
...
My point is the patent clearly state the use of galvanic , and the patent is for a battery that is an electromagnet at the same time .
Electromagnets you can't get more basic then that .
But i get the idea that he switch it with 2 spark gap and a cap.
Anyway i should be able to show it soon.
I hope you can show this soon. I will enjoy seeing this.
I have said this for a while that those silver globes on the tops of the coils were for sparks to gap.
But when laser made his I decided to replicate it.
Thank you.
jeanna
?
@Restron,
Welcome to the forum. :D
What a plesant surprise this is, I see you have found a twin stubblefield coil drawing assembly, well done, I had no idea this was in existance.
May I ask if you have anymore of these drawings around? Where did you find it?
I think you will be asked quite a few questions from the other forum members also.
@all
I have begun making a machine to wind cotton thread onto a bare copper wire, had a lot of fun today and more fun tomorrow.
jim
@all
This video has a part where it makes clearer the surface area effect on amperage , this is also why on the drawing of the coil you see the first row copper iron then second row iron then copper then switches at the next one ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id3tL2iI0Vw
To give it more surface area , but could the wire could have been cut making each row its own battery , after that its basic battery series raises the voltage and parallel raises the amps . NS may have use the iron because it may last longer .
Nice drawing !
Quote from: Resotron on May 18, 2010, 01:23:34 AM
?
Dude nice pic.. it even shows the dam magnets in the make and break switch ... whats the deal with the spark gap and the capacitor in the middle thats kinda interesting, and how the two coils are wired together is really interesting too. What i wanna know is where did you get that drawing we've all been through alot of stubblefield work here and ive never seen that one it looks like a patent diagram no less. Thanks for joining resotron and for sharing your great find - Joe
I myself would like to know where you got this. I see you have a question mark?
From the looks of the drawing it reverses polarity which would mean any high iron content core should work. The spark gap I dont understand.
Where did you get this?
Quotewhats the deal with the spark gap and the capacitor
Resonance maybe??
Quote from: IotaYodi on May 18, 2010, 10:49:54 AM
Resonance maybe??
No yodi ;D ;D .. it screams high voltage output
this is the deff of resonance-
In physics, resonance is the tendency of a system (usually a linear system) to oscillate at larger amplitude at some frequencies than at others. These are known as the system's resonant frequencies (or resonance frequencies). At these frequencies, even small periodic driving forces can produce large amplitude oscillations.-wikipedia
Electrical resonance occurs in an electric circuit at a particular resonance frequency when the impedance between the input and output of the circuit is at a minimum (or when the transfer function is at a maximum). Often this happens when the impedance between the input and output of the circuit is almost zero and when the transfer function is close to one.
Resonant circuits exhibit ringing and can generate higher voltages and currents than are fed into them. They are widely used in wireless transmission for both transmission and reception.
secondly
An LC circuit is a resonant circuit or tuned circuit that consists of an inductor, represented by the letter L, and a capacitor, represented by the letter C. When connected together, an electric current can alternate between them at the circuit's resonant frequency.
LC circuits are used either for generating signals at a particular frequency, or picking out a signal at a particular frequency from a more complex signal. They are key components in many applications such as oscillators, filters, tuners and frequency mixers. An LC circuit is an idealized model since it assumes there is no dissipation of energy due to resistance. For a model incorporating resistance see RLC circuit.
- one of our longtime goals here was to create a stable lc circuit out of a stubblefield battery\self generating induction coil
so two diff animals were talking about, i hope that clears a little up, when i mentioned resonance before it was in the hopes that we could make the secondary's ring at a higher amplitude by cutting the primary bifilar to certain lengths and doing the math to make it a tuned or resonate lc circuit.
But this diagram .. kinda opens up a new world.. it confirms lasersabers interpration of the make and break mechanisim and shows the hv output with a spark gap that ive been driving to figure out for 2 years now.. Interesting how things just show up... i hope the world keeps randomly throwing stuff our way ;) ;) ;D ;D
Nice find, resotron!
I agree with joe about the spark gap meaning high voltage.
I also want to add a piece of interesting info that might be appropriate here.
In my earth run joule thief, after the initial galvanic reaction which makes the light bright, the brightness dims, then builds over time. Putting the initial part aside for a moment, I want to address the building up part.
It makes a perfect sense to me.
Each coil (remember they are always pictured in pairs) pulses, and with each pulse, it builds and pulses again. At some point , maybe after one hour or a day, the pulses reach a point of sparking. Then, it begins again, but from a higher point.
Also, the cap in parallel will collect the HV that is not high enough to spark.
But this center part is a circuit seen in tesla's parallel line circuits.
This is fascinating.
I never made 2 NS generators alike, and I always thought I should. Now, I will.
Thank you so much resotron.
and welcome!
jeanna
-----------------
Quote from: Mk1 on May 18, 2010, 06:00:03 AM
... this is also why on the drawing of the coil you see the first row copper iron then second row iron then copper then switches at the next one ...
But, Mark, that is NOT how it is drawn. It is drawn one copper and one iron next to each other bifilar.
I have found that the iron does not last very long. It gets brittle and snaps off.
The zinc covered steel/iron wire outlasts the plain iron.
sorry,
jeanna
@jeanna
You are right , it was late i should have gone to bed , lol
But the big drawing shows the first and last row of each layer as the same .
Anyway i got confused . Sorry
Btw i posted the screen saver picture of my coil ...
Mark
That drawing again looks quite exciting , it look like a hair pin circuit .
I also noticed that the second out put at the bottom is only connected to the cores ;D interesting .
Also the coil on one battery is pulsed by the rotor of the other battery i assume its to synchronize both coils ...
No offense meant to Resotron here at all but if you look at the enlarged photo section, I really have my doubts that this drawing is authentic.
This photo is an enlarged small section of the wheel on the device and also, I am posting the photo in the negative to better show the artifacts that are revealed.
What do you guys think?
Bill
I was wondering about this being a fake, when I signed in at EF.
Someone had just posted this and said he thought it was so.
I present a screenshot of the pic from the patent and this one.
I turned one upside down .
It also needs to be reversed left to right to see it perfectly.
Note the cross hatching directions.
A section of bifilar winds has been added to the center area and the number of bifilar turns becomes identical when you put these together.
Also note the shading of the bolt head is reversed but identical.
On the nut holding the center bolt there are marks that delineate the screw threads. These being the same mean nothing because the precomputer techniques would allow one to put one pic under the other over a light box and trace, HOWEVER, the thin line which is out of place on that screw was the arrow line from the #2 on the patent.
It would not be there if someone used the trace method.
Darn.
I still like the circuit.
But I will replicate lasersaber's copy first!
jeanna
I edited the pic some more and made the color better and reversed the image so now right is to right and left to left.
Jeanna:
Good work. Go back and look at my previous post again. I was re-sizing it under edit when you posted so now, it is large enough to see what I was talking about.
I totally agree with your findings as well.
Bill
@all
He had patents in other country ...
Also that picture looks like it is a photocopy of the original drawing .
I know he applied in canada and england .
Mark
Mark:
While that is true, it does not account that they did not have photo copy machines back then and for one drawing to have the exact coil as used in another drawing, only it is reversed, is next to impossible. (Nice find Jeanna)
I am doing some more research into this and will keep you all posted. That is all I can say for now.
Bill
Good Bill,
I do see your magnification.
Did you see my improved version?
I changed the color and contrast etc to be almost exact.
Mark,
Perhaps this other country patent drawing would show the other pieces that are missing from what I could fine, but I do not know why a tracing would show up some of those lines.
It is not much, but unlikely to be real....which I find disappointing.
jeanna
On the other hand...
There is a heavy 'shadow' line on the edges of the patent wooden core pieces that is not there on the new one on the bottom.
@jeanna
Here is the british one http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?CC=GB&NR=189807577A&KC=A&FT=D&date=18980520&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_V3
Also i had a look at the 2 photo you posted , they are not the same ?
@pirate
You are right back then they did not have photocopier but they had skills ...
What i tried to say is at one point it was a drawing , and had to be scanned , and is it the original . Because lets say i met NS kids , and they had old drawings , i would love to make a copy , the easiest way would cost 10 cents .
Also NS patent drawing are made by professional , that would account for precise drawing and use of see trough paper for exactitude .
@all
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8854281725994303682&hl=en#
Quote from: Mk1 on May 18, 2010, 05:52:05 PM
Also i had a look at the 2 photo you posted , they are not the same ?
Well,
That is the question.
One is from the patent and
the other one (on the right side) is from the picture that was just posted this morning...
I reversed it
turned it upside down, and
Changed the lighting and contrast.
After I did those 3 things, I want to say they are the same picture.
jeanna
@Jeanna
I have highlighted some interesting parts of the drawing , to me it looks like the same person made the drawing by hand the read switch seem different from each other .
To me it looks more like a missing page from the patent or an other patent that was denied ...
And also Sivowitch, Elliot N was said to have worked out the detail in 1970
Sivowitch, Elliot N., A Technological Survey of Broadcasting's 'Pre-History,' 1876-1920., Journal of Broadcasting, Winter 1970-1971
Edit , i believe it was made by hand because how dirty the paper is the only explanation is the extensive use of a drawing tool moving often on the paper surface .
Also look at how thick the shadow is around the coil , yes it could be digitally removed but not the thickness between the bold and coil .
Quote from: Mk1 on May 18, 2010, 08:13:32 PM
@Jeanna
I have highlighted some interesting parts of the drawing , to me it looks like the same person made the drawing by hand the read switch seem different from each other .
To me it looks more like a missing page from the patent or an other patent that was denied ...
And also Sivowitch, Elliot N was said to have worked out the detail in 1970
Sivowitch, Elliot N., A Technological Survey of Broadcasting's 'Pre-History,' 1876-1920., Journal of Broadcasting, Winter 1970-1971
Edit , i believe it was made by hand because how dirty the paper is the only explanation is the extensive use of a drawing tool moving often on the paper surface .
Also look at how thick the shadow is around the coil , yes it could be digitally removed but not the thickness between the bold and coil .
I agree that both of these are the problem spots.
The large group of bifilar wires covering the inner details of the coil is exactly one of the points I was making.
someone has added enough rows of wire to cover those details.
The thickness is what I meant by the shadow.
It is easily removed digitally, by the eraser tool.
A quick marquee around the dark square hit return and anything inside is removed.
It is easily replaced by the rubber stamp tool also.
If you enlarge things like this to 400 % this becomes very easy.
The other tool that is used to make random smudges is the rubber stamp tool.
Notice how light and bright it became when I added brightness and contrast.
It would be easy to reverse this process by darkening and making less contrast.
It was looking for signs of this that allowed me to spot the stray line to number 2.
I am only good at the eraser and stamp tool.
I fixed the lace on my mother's wedding dress (photo covered with mold) when I made a dvd of the family photo albums and I learned a lot of nuance with both of those tools.
I am sure much more can be done by someone who uses photoshop for more than personal reasons.
However, I would love to see the missing pages to the patent request.
It was specifically the reference to being a magnetic coil that was forbidden by the patent officer.
ALL that said, it IS possible that it went the other way and this is the missing description of how to hook it up.
This picture could have been made from a template picture and then the patent picture could have used this with additional numbers etc.
This would be in an instruction book along with an actual coil.
There is an instruction for connecting the device somewhere.
It is interesting that we have not been able to find it, and perhaps this is what this is.
Do you have more than Elliot Sivowitch's name?
Do you have that book?
jeanna
I was just looking for the brochure and came across this pic.
It never made any sense because there was never any wire coming out from the curved ball top of the bolt.
In today's pic there is a wire from that bolt top from each of the coils and one is labeled pos and the other neg.
This is now an interesting drawing.
jeanna
And this part of the brochure where it is called an electro magnet.
This is where the joule thief connection is hinted.
and this is what was not allowed.
@Jeanna
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzN-FdckEhU
This video show Ns grand son opening the secret chest ...
Also the drawing to me is interesting and should be tried by anyone that as 2 coil . There is so many interesting and logical things in there , the drawing you posted makes me think about the dynatron /kampanze deal , and Ed also comes to mind.
It is like all the pieces are coming together ...
I have started uploading my "How To Build A Nathan Stubblefield Coil Videos".
Check them out here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsuw12Qr8wk
Enjoy
If thats a cap it still looks like some type of lc circuit to me.
Notice the slash marks at the left hand top by the orange dot and the lower right by the green and orange dots. They look like intentional marks. I tried to trace some of this out. An animation of current flow would be nice to see if both coils collapse at the same time feeding the cap.
Quote from: IotaYodi on May 19, 2010, 12:53:39 AM
If thats a cap it still looks like some type of lc circuit to me.
Notice the slash marks at the left hand top by the orange dot and the lower right by the green and orange dots. They look like intentional marks. I tried to trace some of this out. An animation of current flow would be nice to see if both coils collapse at the same time feeding the cap.
Well, I guess that would depend on the synchronization of the two rotors for which I see no device mentioned to do so. IF they were tied together in some mechanical way for the timing it might be possible but, as it is drawn there, to me it would just be a random, hit/miss affair.
What do you think?
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on May 19, 2010, 01:49:53 AM
Well, I guess that would depend on the synchronization of the two rotors for which I see no device mentioned to do so. IF they were tied together in some mechanical way for the timing it might be possible but, as it is drawn there, to me it would just be a random, hit/miss affair.
What do you think?
Bill
Yes there is one ... Its is so cleaver and simple it has to be right , i have high lighted the reed switch connection see how it doesn't pulse the coil it is on .
Also the 2 pickup coil are working together and we know that the rotor have no choice but to work in sync , its like a second stage .
The high voltage from the secondary charges the cap on the simplified hairpin circuit i bet that is the tesla part.
Now we also see output +/- on the core i will show you why , in the video you will see the core of the transformer lighting a small bulb .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0R1pxae9K9c&feature=channel
@all,
I am way behind everyone, lol, to compound it I had a 4 1/2 hour power cut from 9.30AM to 2.00pm.
Lots of new stuff here anyway, this "new" stubblefield DUEL coil has me intrigued.
I have been going over this DUEL Stubblefield plan, now if I'm not mistaken there is writing and lettering in this, but it is extreamly faint, and in the background.
As Jeanna mentioned someone skilled in using paint might be able to figure it out.
1. just under the high voltage spheres, is the word "High" but it is very faint
2. in the middle, just above bottom wire, slightly to the left is some type of rubber stamp
3. I thought I could make out some numbers right on the border line below this
Maybe I'm wrong, and it's the light, but can others see this too?
@ Lasersaber,
Good to see you here again, and thanks for letting us all know of your latest how you made your NS Coil.
I will go and take a look at your UT video after midnight, its pointless for me to try before.
jim
@Lasersaber,
Quote from: lasersaber on May 18, 2010, 11:42:27 PM
I have started uploading my "How To Build A Nathan Stubblefield Coil Videos".
Check them out here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsuw12Qr8wk
Enjoy
I have just been looking at your first 3 How to build a Nathan Stubblefield coils, these are very well presented, very inspiring, I can see lots of people trying to replicate your success, well done Laser, BTW, have you made Part 4 of your How to build the NS Coil yet? I am very eager to see it along with all your testing.
I paid particular attention to what you said about the wire supplier not having enough cotton covered wire on a spool, I am working on a fix for this, see below ;)
I know someone in town who is working at an electrical supply shop, guess he is going to hear from me this weekend sometime ha ha.
How many blisters did you end up with? I had 3 beauties.
Just had a brain wave, for those of you wanting to get hold of bare copper wire, use switch wire, if you can strip off the insulation, you will have a bare copper wire that you can put cotton thread on to to insulate it, I don't know what lengths these rolls are supplied in, but its worth asking about.
@all,
Today I cut the ends off my steel axle shaft which supports the counter rotating pullies, and driled a hole all the way through the center of the shaft for the bare copper to be fed through, tomorrow I will weld up the support bracket for this shaft.
Heres how it will work.
The electric motor spins in one direction only, but the pullies both turn in opersate directions while the bare copper wire is fed through the drilled hole at a constant speed, the 6 spools of cotton thread wind themselves around the copper wire as it moves slowly through the center of the shaft and is taken up on an empty spool.
The disks I took out of a spar forward and reverse (toe & heel) from an Greenfield lawn mower , you could make up a similar apperartus out of plywood, kitchen nylon cutting board, etc, a couple of 3 inch pullies, and a 12 volt DC motor.
Heres a few photos of my progress today
jim
Jim, that's awesome!!! I've been wracking my brain trying to figure out what you'd come up with for wrapping the wire. This is so simple it just blows my mind.
Darryl
@ hoverdj,
Thankyou Darryl,
I was scratching my head for a while trying to understand it too, but it is rather simple, anyway I hope it will be picked up by those on this forum and built so we can all make our own cotton insulated wires, I see no problems with feeding several strands of bare copper wires in one go through the feed hole to make up a fairly thick single copper wire.
Just had a second thought, it is apparent to me that the cotton could be wrapped around the iron wire, and the copper wire could be left bare, it should work the same.
Anyway that's just something we could experiment with at a later time, lets all concentrate on the excellent work Laser is doing with his stubblefield coil, this is awesome stuff folks, at long last we are seeing real breakthroughs after years of stumbling, but it's all been a learning experience and I for one feel very privileged to be a part of it.
One other thing, Laser stated in one of his YT videos, to have more wire wound on his coil, this is what I have been saying for some time now, pile on the turns.
It's almost 1 am, I'm off to bed.
jim
QuoteJust had a second thought, it is apparent to me that the cotton could be wrapped around the iron wire, and the copper wire could be left bare, it should work the same.
Dont think the dielectric action would be the same. I think both wires can be cotton without using the interleave of cotton making it easier to construct. NS said you could do this. His stated reason for the bare iron was to increase the intensity of the magnetic field. I disagree with this.
The more turns on any coil gives you more power. Also the more turns the lower the resonant frequency and higher power.
Ive enhanced the pic more for a better understanding. With this dual coil there is definitely a polarity reversal keeping the core from being permanently magnetized.
Hey folks,
I found another place to get good cotton covered copper http://www.jupitercondenser.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=section&layout=blog&id=6&Itemid=64 (http://www.jupitercondenser.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=section&layout=blog&id=6&Itemid=64)
laser said he was using .9 mm and i used this chart http://www.technick.net/public/code/cp_dpage.php?aiocp_dp=guide_awg_to_metric (http://www.technick.net/public/code/cp_dpage.php?aiocp_dp=guide_awg_to_metric)
to determine that .9 mm is about 18 or 19 awg gauge wire looks fairly cheap 1.25 a foot so maybey not that cheap .. but still a viable option and i think you can get rolls as big as you want em with no splices ;D ;D
A cleaned up version...
@all
I just want to add to Localjoe's measurement conversion regarding Lasersabers .9mm wire
.9mm is also 0.035 inches.
jim
Quote.9mm is also 0.035 inches.
Which is good for 1.8 amps. Unless you can tap cold electricity thats not much.
HUH?
QuoteHUH?
Its awg 19. It will only handle 1.8 amps until it starts to heat up using standard "hot" electricity. With unbundled chassis wiring in air its good for about 14 amps. I would think that wrapping it up into coils may even make it lower than 1.8 amps as there is not much heat escape. Keeping it damp or in the cold would alleviate most of the heat.
@lasersaber great vids.
@all
It sucks that the pic was a fake, sorta expected it when i saw the reed switch on it, being they didnt come around for like 40 years after the NS coil did.
Has anyone used a motor to wind their primaries? I have only done one and it was by hand, just curious if there are any complications with it?
Im not too familiar with transistors but from what i read it has three prongs, CB and E, CE gets connected to the wire and B gets grounded, i think its connected to a resistor as well, this should provide the fast switching action.
@IotaYodi From what has been shown by lasersabers vids, its approximately 10 milliamps per layer of windings, to reach the limit of that wire would require over a thousand of layers. That is not to say that one should reach the maximum current limit of the wire.
Quote from: electricme on May 20, 2010, 05:08:26 AM
@all
I just want to add to Localjoe's measurement conversion regarding Lasersabers .9mm wire
.9mm is also 0.035 inches.
jim
An easy way to convert from MM to Inches is to multiply the MM size by .03937.
Bill
Hi LaserSaber thanks for that vid interesting. Did you used steel wire not iron?
Ok thanks
In case anybody else wants to know, I asked Sargent-Welch for the composition of the "Soft-Iron" used by LaserSaber. Here is what they gave me:
Minimum Properties
Ultimate Tensile Strength, psi 63,800
Yield Strength, psi 53,700
Elongation 15.0%
Rockwell Hardness B71
Chemistry
Iron (Fe) 98.81 - 99.26%
Carbon (C) 0.18%
Manganese (Mn) 0.6 - 0.9%
Phosphorus (P) 0.04% max
Sulfur (S) 0.05% max
So, what is it? According to my McMasterCarr catalog, it is 1018 Steel!
Darryl
By the way, it works out to a couple dollars cheaper than McMasterCarr.
Quote from: alchemist123 on May 20, 2010, 10:57:23 AM
@all
It sucks that the pic was a fake, sorta expected it when i saw the reed switch on it, being they didnt come around for like 40 years after the NS coil did.
Sorry , i still think this thing is genuine , NS had motor running on those battery as early as 1902 , look it up there is pertinent info on bedini site.
Honestly the patent is a bad idea to bring up , since we don't know what it is , plus the patent date as nothing to do with the invention it self , with the same principle none of what we are doing exist ...
All i know and is clearly written ,is he use is battery also to transmit sound (is energy)not in the air but in the ground , having one motor coil in the ground should supply energy to other coil in the ground .
Tesla tried it he was there at the 1902 demonstration ...
Other thing i know the earth battery we know is only half of what he patented the rest got refused , now i think this really could be it , it make sense its 1902 technologies .
I wonder if anyone patented the wheel , that would make a great retirement plan ...
Mark A bemf battery ... :D
Mark:
We have other information and I am afraid the photo /drawings are faked.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on May 21, 2010, 01:46:42 AM
Mark:
We have other information and I am afraid the photo /drawings are faked.
Bill
Ok fine but the info is ?
But bwt totally plausable and i am sure it works ...
@all
With regard to the "faked" photo...
Rather than make 2 drawings of the same thing, its possible they may have simply copied the original drawing.
Regards...
@all
If there is a proof that it is fake i wasn't to hear it , but in Nathan words
Stubblefield called the New York promoters a bunch of "damned rascals." He said they were "defrauding the public." What he meant was that they were defrauding his dream of unlimited voices, for unlimited distances, and unlimited lights. The mystic of radio with his loops and coils and magic was being defrauded; and all he wanted was to make the aether speak.
It is mentioned light ...
The way i see it is a type of bemf in ground it self , propagating for close to one mile around .
http://www.ralphmag.org/stubblefieldU.html
I said he lived 50 years before his time , i would say more like 100 to 120 ...
http://earlyradiohistory.us/1902stu.htm
http://www.fantasticforum.com/1res/printthread.php?s=724b64754fa7643fd1dcfbbb86b175ea&threadid=12061
My opinion is that someone already here made that drawing. The moderators would know that. I just see it as a modified drawing and not fake as there is no patent number or anything else. Someone was still thinking and thats a plus..
NS didn't have reed switches but he did have magnetic fields. Lower spark voltages produce higher magnetic fields while a certain spark voltage causes the highest magnetic field.
http://sciencelinks.jp/j-east/article/200320/000020032003A0644964.php
It may have been a simple matter of an iron trigger coil placed near a spark gap. You wouldnt need a magnet wheel or a reed switch. This needs to be tried out.
Notice the wires that are coiled in the picture. The wire wouldnt need to be coiled unless there was a purpose to it. That purpose may have been for the magnetic field.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/magnetic/magcoi.html
If I remember right Voltage spikes charge a cap quicker and better. Someone correct me if thats wrong. The bank of caps in the picture are manufactured caps and not home made.
We may need to take this to a higher level with a specific site for serious research on this coil. Meanwhile Im about to be surrounded by oil. I cant tell you how irate I am with Corporations in general. :-[
The photo you have is interesting mk1, lots of large capacitors wired to the batteries. I think it was a way to store the high voltage ac generated from the secondary. The coiled connection may have something to do with impedance ( in this case inductive reactance ) which would have an effect on current, being that ordinary capacitors have low capacitance I think it would be safe to say this was a means of current limiting.
Also in regards to the questionable drawing, its someones interpretation of what the lasersaber coil is all about not an authentic stubblefield drawing.
I noticed the the wires attached to his steel rods were also coiled...possibly for ease of handling.
And IYoda...all you have to do to protect your shoreline is to toss copious amounts of ordinary straw into the water...the oil crude oil will stick to the straw, and you just scoop up the straw and oil all at once.
Thanks for those great links Mark.
I one the following really interesting statement was attributed to NS...
' This earth cell can be greatly magnified. Its discovery was the beginning of my experiments with wireless telephony '
Also he said his son Bernard was quite capable of carrying on his work should he die.
Someone in his family may have some helpful information...although one would have to tread carefully, as there were a few family members who sued him.
Regards...
Good evening ALL,
I had a strange thought experiment this evening. I have just concluded watching the fifth video by Lasersaber on his NS replication. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLL7YKO7q8c&playnext_from=TL&videos=udkQIxrHYrQ#
And I posted the following comment to him, and before "ruling it out", I just would like each of you to think through it for a moment. It is an interesting thought...
Posted Comment to Lasersaber:
"I think you should attempt to feed the current from the secondary, BACK into the primary. This would in turn, make the secondary stronger with more current, and this would then be fed back into the primary, which would make the secondary once again stronger, etc.... You get where I am going with this..."
Thoughts please....
P.S> I think that "FEEDBACK" may be the secret that is missing... ;)
Cheers,
Bruce
Bruce:
Very interesting thought experiment. Possibly, this is what he did, or something similar, and when the energy reached a certain point, it was bled off of the circuit and the cycle continued.
Great thinking.
Bill
@All I've been following this thread for some time and have made several NS coils with varied success. :)
Anyway I've been thinking of trying a vibrating buzzer type make-and-break switch for the NS coil instead of using the wheel (like the old EM bells). I think someone earlier here also mentioned other ways of achieving the oscillations in Stubblefields time era in response to the (most likely faked illustration posted some days ago). One could do it of course with modern timer circuits as Lidmotor pointed out.
Here's an illustration of my primitive setup though. I'm sure you guys can come up with a better design for this.
Lid also pointed out that this would indeed is very much like an old FORD model T spark coil after which I look it up.
Here's an extract from the wiki article on the spark coil:
"In order to provide high voltage for the spark from the low voltage batteries, a "tickler" was used, which was essentially a larger version of the once widespread electric buzzer. With this apparatus, the direct current passes through an electromagnetic coil which pulls open a pair of contact points, interrupting the current; the magnetic field collapses, the spring-loaded points close again, the circuit is reestablished, and the cycle repeats rapidly. The rapidly collapsing magnetic field, however, induces a high voltage across the coil which can only relieve itself by arcing across the contact points..." "...the ignition system this becomes the source of the high voltage to operate the spark plugs. In this mode of operation, the coil would "buzz" continuously, producing a constant train of sparks." ---- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignition_system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignition_system) ----
To add to the illustration: One might also put tuners to control the positions of the spring and the other connector plate, so as to fully be able to control the performance with optimal tuning capabilities. And to add proper components to the secondary if higher voltage were to be attained, all though I'm not that sure that will happen, but who knows.
@ Bruce, Yes with the secondary feeding back I can easilly see my set up getting up to spark potential if properly tuned (I think). Maybe it would be better just to use iron instead of a magnet on a vertical spring and only one of the pairs of copper-iron for the buzzing and the sec for feedback to them trough an AV plug maybe, and if it were to make any sense, to use the remaining wires for load, but maybe not. (referring to writings of the coils operations)
The core might be exited though and one could use an avromenko plug to draw out some juice from it maybe between two or more NS coils if not the ground would completely eat up this energy, where by one must completely insultate the cores from the ground and prims.
One could put in another secondary for further extraction if it has all this potential, or simply try and extract excess energy with capacitors as it gets to higher levels (if).
Also I really think these coils were ment to be connected together over some minor distace underground in order to "pick up" or direct into them telluric currents in the ground.
The question is only: How?
Master T
@Bruce
Quote from: Master_T on May 22, 2010, 03:18:39 AM
@ Bruce, Yes with the secondary feeding back I can easilly see my set up getting up to spark potential if properly tuned (I think). Maybe it would be better just to use iron instead of a magnet on a vertical spring and only one of the pairs of copper-iron for the buzzing and the sec for feedback to them trough an AV plug maybe, and if it were to make any sense, to use the remaining wires for load, but maybe not. (referring to writings of the coils operations)
The core might be exited though and one could use an avromenko plug to draw out some juice from it maybe between two or more NS coils if not the ground would completely eat up this energy, where by one must completely insultate the cores from the ground and prims.
One could put in another secondary for further extraction if it has all this potential, or simply try and extract excess energy with capacitors as it gets to higher levels (if).
Also I really think these coils were ment to be connected together over some minor distace underground in order to "pick up" or direct into them telluric currents in the ground.
The question is only: How?
Master T
How on the connection? Could be the copper lead from one to the iron lead of the second. Then the copper lead of the second to the iron lead of the first. This should work if I recall my own experiments near the start of this thread.
@ ALL
It is the middle of the night and I just awoke. I am confident that this "feedback" is the answer!!
If the two leads that Lasersaber is using has his make and break, and if the two leads attached to his LED, were now connected to the opposite end leads from the make and break, then this ADDITIONAL current produced via magnetic induction onto the Secondary is now ADDED to the current in the primary and it too will be now at the mercy of a "make and break". Perhaps go to a CAPACITOR and then to the primary? BUT, this additional current from the secondary, should almost DOUBLE the strength of the secondary, just on that first pass!! There should be this doubling effect, and then a means to use a capacitor or a second battery to take "OFF" this current.
Cheers,
Bruce
@Bruce
No I meant how to direct a lot of telluric currents in to the coil, if it's even possible. Sorry I was pretty vague.
Ignoring the crudeness of the picture, do you think this configuration of your feedback idea will work?
@All I apologize for posting so many picutures.
Master T
@Bruce
I dont think it will work. The output of the primary is dc. The output of the secondary is ac. To connect the ends of the secondary to the primary the current would have to be converted to dc first, causing power loss. Not to mention just normal copper losses eddy current losses and hysteresis losses associated with ac and a single solid core.
Quote from: alchemist123 on May 22, 2010, 06:02:17 AM
@Bruce
I dont think it will work. The output of the primary is dc. The output of the secondary is ac. To connect the ends of the secondary to the primary the current would have to be converted to dc first, causing power loss. Not to mention just normal copper losses eddy current losses and hysteresis losses associated with ac and a single solid core.
I thought about this, and even if only say 10% reached the Primary, and added to it. And say that 10% only added 1% increase in the secondary.... Now, multiply that out by every microsecond and the result is still the same!! Amplification.
AS long as there is even the smallest increase in the flux field imposed onto the secondary, at every pass, it will indeed work! Because of the speeds involved, a tiny increase will become very large, very quickly and is worth while for the experimenter to attempt!
IF successful... in increasing the flux onto the secondary, even by 1/100 of a percentage, on every pass, then STILL the resultant power amplification would be achieved, it would just take a few extra seconds to build!
EDIT:Also, don't forget, that also added into this feedback, could indeed be the additional power gained by having TWO coils in the ground, each acting as an individual electrode, like our early attempts. Take this, add it to the rectified secondary and feed it back to the primary, this in turn increases the flux field imposed onto the secondary, which is then fed back to the primary, etc. We don't need a lot to make it...Just any increase in the flux field at all and it works!!!
Cheers,
Bruce
Quote from: Bruce_TPU on May 22, 2010, 06:22:35 AM
I thought about this, and even if only say 10% reached the Primary, and added to it. And say that 10% only added 1% increase in the secondary.... Now, multiply that out by every microsecond and the result is still the same!! Amplification.
AS long as there is even the smallest increase in the flux field imposed onto the secondary, at every pass, it will indeed work! Because of the speeds involved, a tiny increase will become very large, very quickly and is worth while for the experimenter to attempt!
IF successful... in increasing the flux onto the secondary, even by 1/100 of a percentage, on every pass, then STILL the resultant power amplification would be achieved, it would just take a few extra seconds to build!
Cheers,
Bruce
You missed what i was trying to say, you cant combine dc and ac power sources they are different kinds of electrical current. And rectification drains power.
You are discounting the natural losses that occur with each coupling, namely heat losses. This device is far from overunity. Heat generated by a conductor is equal to square of the current if i remember right. Its an induction coil, plain and simple. The steady dc current is supplied by the voltaic couple wrapped around the core body a means of switching produces pulsed dc inducing a current every make and break into the secondary of high frequency high voltage ac characteristics.
QuoteThis device is far from overunity.
It never was an over unity device.
QuoteIts an induction coil, plain and simple.
A plain induction coil is 2 copper wires. This is one iron and one copper. Both are induction but differ. The NS coil gave tesla the idea for his electrostatic generator. Very low voltages in the NS coil and the reason why they are large. Once in the ground and damp the heating factor diminishes.
Quote from: alchemist123 on May 22, 2010, 06:40:42 AM
You missed what i was trying to say, you cant combine dc and ac power sources they are different kinds of electrical current. And rectification drains power.
You can if AC is turned into DC. AS explained above, even if there are losses, which there will be, it will not matter! We are only looking for a SMALL PERCENTAGE of flux increase onto the secondary at each pass. Why is this so hard to understand?
You are discounting the natural losses that occur with each coupling, namely heat losses. This device is far from overunity. Heat generated by a conductor is equal to square of the current if i remember right. Its an induction coil, plain and simple. The steady dc current is supplied by the voltaic couple wrapped around the core body a means of switching produces pulsed dc inducing a current every make and break into the secondary of high frequency high voltage ac characteristics.
This forum is called "OVERUNITY.com" in case you missed what forum you recently signed up on. Many on this forum believe that the ORIGINAL NS was more than just a galvanic battery. The original(s) produced far more than they should have just using galvanic reaction. Can you say that you have tried feeding back a NS coil, while it is buried in the ground? Until then, I do not believe you can say that it doesn't work. As was pointed out to you this is not a plain induction coil. I have already explained that only a tiny, small percentage is needed in increase for it to work. I have "discounted" nothing.
It is an EASY enough experiment for anyone with a working Lasersaber type coil to attempt.
Alchmist .. be nice bruces has been around for a while
.. Wasent the juice off the primary .. pulsed dc as I remember.... go take a meter to a dc it shows ac just at an extreemly low cycle. Id be willing to say that with the proper tuning Bruce may be right .. Remember one of the key observations at the time was this thing took a lil while to prime and when it did folks noticed beautiful sparks........... beautiful sparks dont come from low voltage dc hense me thinking that the "self generating induction coil " may hold a bit more secrets than youd like to admit.. Id call free high frequency high voltage overunity if were not leeching random em waves and that isnt the case here..
Also theres a whole range of lights and other devices that run on hf hv if configured properly.... BIG FLORESCENT LIGHTS>..
Lets just say we get this completed with some usable power .... whoes to say it wont power a garage full of florescent lights or maybet we could pair an inductive motor to work with it like a few of teslas designs. There are still a lot of overunity possibilities with this device
So to conclude .. " CREATIVE AMPLIFICATION" Is still a viable route to travel with this device and experiment .. and i dont mean the finger painting kind of creativity.. waves add to each other as to prodcue a more powerful one... That was the reason for my whole rlc resonance rant before....
Quotebeautiful sparks dont come from low voltage dc
Never heard of sparks being beautiful before. ;D
You can get visible sparks off a 9 volt battery. You can also have invisible "sparks" or current that isnt hot enough to ionize the air to make it visible. Whats strange to me is that a low voltage spark creates a more intense magnetic field than a higher voltage spark.
What I don't get is that folks keep saying this is not an overunity device. Well, consider that:
Input=0
Output=>0
How is this not ou? Even my simple electrode circuit outside, which is still working, is ou. My input is 0 and my output is enough to light 400 leds or some big floro tubes.
I don't want to argue on what the definition of OU is but to me, anything that you have 0 input and get >0 output has to be ou in its most fundamental form.
Bill
QuoteBill (Pirate88179) wrote: Even my simple electrode circuit outside, which is still working, is ou. My input is 0 and my output is enough to light 400 leds or some big floro tubes.
Bill, does your "simple electrode" corode? And if it does not corode, you could pick up some induction from a near by power line. It is difficult to get away far enough from power lines near a house or in a settlement.
If I connect my multimeter to a good "ground" (like any metal water tube in the house) and hold up the other wire in the air, I measure 0,8 to 1,2 Volt AC (the electromagnetic noise from Radio, TV, cellular phone towers and heavy duty power lines).
I always wanted to know whether the wires in a Stubblefield coil corode?
Conventional theory says: the electrodes corode (give away stuff to the electrolyte) and such provide the energy for the production of an electric current. The electrolyte in the ground and in the Stubblefield coil would be water (and some salts in it).
Greetings, Conrad
Conrad:
No, I have seen no evidence of any breakdown of my materials and it it going for over 2 years now. The electrolyte, I believe, it a combination of moisture and the surrounding earth. If it was just water, then my set-up should work the best when it is really wet outside, but it does not. It works the best when it has not rained for weeks and the ground is dry.
Stubblefield always said that his devices would last in the ground without any breakdown of the materials.
As far as stray 60hz currents running my electrodes, I do not think so. First, the frequency of my electrodes is much much lower than that. Also, Stubblefield's old farm location is about 2 hours west of me. Some claim that his energy was coming from the grid via leakage too but, there was no grid in his area at that time.
I am not sure how to prove beyond a doubt that my electrodes are not getting something from the grid, I just do not believe they are. But, we do pump a lot of energy into ground systems all over the earth and there are a lot of lightning strikes all over the planet every second so, it may be very hard to determine for sure. I just know I am not getting anything like 60hz which is our standard over here.
Bill
@all
I have been wondering why not just use a reed switch on the bolt , or turn the coil into a relay switch ?
Mark
Quoteanything that you have 0 input and get >0 output has to be ou in its most fundamental form.
The way I look at is 2 ways. The way the device measures it and the unknown or external input like the Aether. Ive seen it stated that current is really produced by the Aether through electrical devices,transformers,generators etc. If thats the case then the device as a whole is just a conduit to direct the Aether in the proper manner. If you have a universe full of Aether then it would seem to outweigh any other input. If the Aether is responsible for the electromagnetic spectrum alone, then I see the Aether as the main power source or input. We have put mathematics of positives or negatives from certain reference points, but the reference point has never been the Aether as far as I know. You can use standard reference points and suspect measuring devices and call it Ou, but in reality is it? If we are indeed extracting energy from the Universe,its just microscopic from its reference point. An example of that would be Sweets Vta using a barium magnet. Leaving this thing on they heard a whirlwind that seemed to get louder. It takes force to make that sound. The Vta created a Vortex into the aether by way of the tuned barium magnet. Scary stuff!
Anyway thats why I dont think of it as over unity. What we call it is unimportant. We just need to get it!
IotaYodi:
Agreed. It might just be that this is tapping into an unknown or undefined energy source not unlike wind or solar power would have been before they were understood.
But, you are correct, whatever it is, we need to get it.
Bill
Quote from: Mk1 on May 22, 2010, 04:14:21 PM
@all
I have been wondering why not just use a reed switch on the bolt , or turn the coil into a relay switch ?
Mark
Do you mean to put the reed switch in the right spot so it makes and breaks as it wants?
I think it would need to get started. In laser's first rotor remember it took about an hour to get up to its full speed.
I am seeing this kind of thing with my minimally powered jt in the ground.
They can be off, but if I charge the cap (which is parallel to the leads) sometimes they will continue for days and days (rather than 10 seconds to run the cap down) but if I never did that little charging the circuit would never start.
(This trick only works sometime).
Can you think of a way to start it?
jeanna
Didn't NS once say "you have to prime the pump" ?
To me that suggests you may need a pulsed charge to get the earth to 'bounce back'.
Regards...
Cap:
Yes, he did say that somewhere. Good point. Kapanadze also primes the pump with a car battery when using his device.
Bill
@jeanna
I think he made them charge cap banks to some level then used it in a resonant spark gap circuit ... ala Dynatron Or tesla .
But i am seeing something like this for now.
Mark
QuoteDidn't NS once say "you have to prime the pump" ?
I don't remember hearing NS say that.
----------
I ordered a ...well 10 ... pieces of the core thursday. When It comes I will make one or 2 of these.
I think I bought enough cotton covered copper to make 3, but 2 for sure.
I have a recently broken cd player.
Is the motor in that a candidate for the speedy bearing I need to run the reed switch?
Does anybody know?
I have been trying to make a copy of the reed switch motor I bought but it is floppy and slow and doesn't work yet.
thanks,
I noticed on part 4 that lasersaber connects the inner of one wire to the outer of the other, which is the joule thief connection.
I am so glad to see this working!
jeanna
Could have also been Ed Leedskalnin who said it jeanna...but the principle may also aply here.
Regards...
Quote from: Pirate88179 on May 22, 2010, 02:52:13 PM
What I don't get is that folks keep saying this is not an overunity device. Well, consider that:
Input=0
Output=>0
How is this not ou? Even my simple electrode circuit outside, which is still working, is ou. My input is 0 and my output is enough to light 400 leds or some big floro tubes.
I don't want to argue on what the definition of OU is but to me, anything that you have 0 input and get >0 output has to be ou in its most fundamental form.
Bill
But you do have input, whether it is galvanic action or a "telluric" receiver or whatever. You still have normal electrical losses via heat and core losses from flux retained in the core after magnetization. and eddy currents.
Now i agree that in a sense this is "free" energy, because all one has to is put some electrodes in the ground and wire it up and you got an electrical current, but this is from the intrisic properties of the materials and system, it is far from loss-less and very far from its output exceeding its input
Quote from: alchemist123 on May 22, 2010, 06:58:15 PM
But you do have input, whether it is galvanic action or a "telluric" receiver or whatever. You still have normal electrical losses via heat and core losses from flux retained in the core after magnetization. and eddy currents.
Now i agree that in a sense this is "free" energy, because all one has to is put some electrodes in the ground and wire it up and you got an electrical current, but this is from the intrisic properties of the materials and system, it is far from loss-less and very far from its output exceeding its input
Who gives a rip if there are electrical losses via heat and core losses??? You have mentioned this three times in three postings. These are not village idiots. They have been working on this for a very long time. And I with them at the first.
Why not build something yourself! Oh wait... I know, it will have electrical losses and heat losses. Sheesh!
Quote from: Bruce_TPU on May 22, 2010, 08:41:59 PM
Who gives a rip if there are electrical losses via heat and core losses??? You have mentioned this three times in three postings. These are not village idiots. They have been working on this for a very long time. And I with them at the first.
Why not build something yourself! Oh wait... I know, it will have electrical losses and heat losses. Sheesh!
I repeatedly mention this because it is easy to get lost an important message amongst the 200 some pages in this thread. And not to mention it is the very problem that makes your logic flawed in your feedback idea and also the reason why this is not an overunity device. How about you pick up a highschool physics textbook and learn a thing or 2 ok?
Vids will be posted in a couple weeks, running tests on various core selections and ideas on improving efficency
Hello ALL,
Ignoring the above drivel... H.S. physics books, yea, that's the solution.
Anywho, there is a man who has offered help in this feed back venture, but needs an appropriate circuit of the LaserSaber coil drawn out. View his post here:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/2209-earth-battery-sg-17.html#post95972
P.S. alchemist123
There is no arguing, only experimenting. You can say it can't be done all that you want. They said the same thing to Steven Mark, Tesla, Columbus, and about a thousand others. I know that there is unlimited power that can be tapped into. I never accept the words "Can't" or "Try" or "not possible". They told me I couldn't raise ocean shrimp in Fresh water. Said I was "crazy", and "wasting my time". Guess what, they were wrong. The more you tell me it "can't be done" the more I will find a way! That is what makes me, me.... ;) All things are possible!! Jesus walked on water, Peter took a few steps (more than we ever have), I have seen the lame walk and blind eyes opened, sir. So... I would trade all of the physics books that say why it can't be done, for a couple of stubborn people who will not take "can't" for an answer and try, and experiment, and try again. How many times did Edison try differant items for the filament for the first light bulb? He was told it "couldn't be done", "not possible", and to "give up".
You have a good night with the status quoe... But me, I want to give the lightning to our children and to reach for the stars!
Cheers,
Bruce
@All
I just wanted to say that I have had some very interesting results experimenting with the configuration that I posted before, but with a capacitor bank, three NS coils connected together and burried into the ground, and the involvment of an electric velder to effect the ground from several widely spaced points.
I could post the details up till this point, but I have a feeling I do not belong here.
I still wish all of you the best.
Quote from: Master_T on May 23, 2010, 12:08:41 AM
@All
I just wanted to say that I have had some very interesting results experimenting with the configuration that I posted before, but with a capacitor bank, three NS coils connected together and burried into the ground, and the involvment of an electric velder to effect the ground from several widely spaced points.
I could post the details up till this point, but I have a feeling I do not belong here.
I still wish all of you the best.
I think you should post those pictures and results here. You are not out of place.
If you have 3 stubblefield generators working and in the ground??
where have you been?
I think the adjustable gap looks promising, myself.
I would like to know more of your results, please.
What is an electric velder?
thank you,
jeanna
Quote from: Cap-Z-ro on May 22, 2010, 06:22:18 PM
Could have also been Ed Leedskalnin who said it jeanna...but the principle may also aply here.
Regards...
No, it was Stubblefield. It was in his papers somewhere. I will try to find where if I can.
Bill
Quote from: Bruce_TPU on May 22, 2010, 10:53:43 PM
A,
Ignoring the above drivel... H.S. physics books, yea, that's the solution.
Anywho, there is a man who has offered help in this feed back venture, but needs an appropriate circuit of the LaserSaber coil drawn out. View his post here:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/2209-earth-battery-sg-17.html#post95972
P.S. alchemist123
There is no arguing, only experimenting. You can say it can't be done all that you want. They said the same thing to Steven Mark, Tesla, Columbus, and about a thousand others. I know that there is unlimited power that can be tapped into. I never accept the words "Can't" or "Try" or "not possible". They told me I couldn't raise ocean shrimp in Fresh water. Said I was "crazy", and "wasting my time". Guess what, they were wrong. The more you tell me it "can't be done" the more I will find a way! That is what makes me, me.... ;) All things are possible!! Jesus walked on water, Peter took a few steps (more than we ever have), I have seen the lame walk and blind eyes opened, sir. So... I would trade all of the physics books that say why it can't be done, for a couple of stubborn people who will not take "can't" for an answer and try, and experiment, and try again. How many times did Edison try differant items for the filament for the first light bulb? He was told it "couldn't be done", "not possible", and to "give up".
You have a good night with the status quoe... But me, I want to give the lightning to our children and to reach for the stars!
Cheers,
Bruce
Remember what Tesla said of Edison
"His method was inefficient in the extreme, for an immense ground had to be covered to get anything at all unless blind chance intervened and, at first, I was almost a sorry witness of his doings,
knowing that just a little theory and calculation would have saved him 90 percent of the labor. But he had a veritable contempt for book learning and mathematical knowledge, trusting himself entirely to his inventor's instinct and practical American sense."
Quote from: alchemist123 on May 22, 2010, 06:58:15 PM
But you do have input, whether it is galvanic action or a "telluric" receiver or whatever. You still have normal electrical losses via heat and core losses from flux retained in the core after magnetization. and eddy currents.
Now i agree that in a sense this is "free" energy, because all one has to is put some electrodes in the ground and wire it up and you got an electrical current, but this is from the intrisic properties of the materials and system, it is far from loss-less and very far from its output exceeding its input
This is a good example of why, even though we are here searching for OU, according to your description it will never be found.
Example:
Input: 12 volts @ 1 amp.
Output: 14 volts @ 1 amp.
You would agree this is overunity right? BUT, that "extra" energy HAS to come from SOMEWHERE so, by your statement it would not be OU. It will ALWAYS come from somewhere even if we do not know where and that was my point.
I started a topic on this very thing a while back and no 2 folks could/would agree on what OU is. This is amazing to me as we are all looking for it but we can't/won't agree on what it is so, how will we know if we do actually find it?
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 link=topic=3500.msg242198#msg242198 A=1274594929
This is a good example of why, even though we are here searching for OU, according to your description it will never be found.
Example:
Input: 12 volts @ 1 amp.
Output: 14 volts @ 1 amp.
You would agree this is overunity right? BUT, that "extra" energy HAS to come from SOMEWHERE so, by your statement it would not be OU. It will ALWAYS come from somewhere even if we do not know where and that was my point.
I started a topic on this very thing a while back and no 2 folks could/would agree on what OU is. This is amazing to me as we are all looking for it but we can't/won't agree on what it is so, how will we know if we do actually find it?
Bill
Doesnt really matter if its OU, or not OU pirate - as long as we're not paying for the elecy, right ;)
I'm pleased your earth battery powered JT is still going strong. Keep up the good work. ;D
Quote from: alchemist123 on May 23, 2010, 02:08:21 AM
Remember what Tesla said of Edison
"His method was inefficient in the extreme, for an immense ground had to be covered to get anything at all unless blind chance intervened and, at first, I was almost a sorry witness of his doings, knowing that just a little theory and calculation would have saved him 90 percent of the labor. But he had a veritable contempt for book learning and mathematical knowledge, trusting himself entirely to his inventor's instinct and practical American sense."
Remember what I said of the following, "Edison is a long time dead and buried, and yet we remember his inventions that have improved all of our lives. What will you be remembered for?? Book learning is AWESOME, but it depends, WHICH BOOKS!! I have read nearly all of the Greats, legends both recent and distant, and their writings, including Einstein. If I recall, Einstein wasn't too hip on the common conception of gravity, and came up with a mathematical formula to prove the gravity was a curvature of time and space. This idea first came to him while looking at a man on a ladder, outside of his window. Imagine that, ideas through observation. And then he spent MUCH time finding an astronomer with the proper equiptment to prove out his theory, because he did not have the skills himself."
So, Alchemist123, what will you be remembered for? Besides trying to discourage a SIMPLE experiment? It makes me wonder who you are and why you are even here? What are you worried about if it isn't going to work and of course you know this because you read it in a book. LOL If you think that mankind's sum of knowledge is contained in what we know, that is laughable! In the '70's Nixon nearly shut down the patent office because it was thought that everything that could be invented had been. How arrogant. How egotistical. Knowledge is doubling at unprecedented rates.
I will not let you or others like you discourage others from experimenting, hands on with something you or a book say can not be done!!
If we listened to them, Overunity is impossible, there is no new energy sources, or untapped old ones, so why are we even here? We should all give up if we followed your logic. But we are here for new discovery.
P.S. Also there is a LOT to be said for "American Sense"!
@ ALL
Please see the Pseudo closed loop circuit that Aaron posted at Energetic forum for those with working Lasersaber type coils to experiment with!
Aaron wrote the following:
"Both windings wound in same direction. North at (top - left in pic) of coil
when plus is at same side when switch closes. Can everyone see what is
happening here? It can decrease front side battery draw by 50% easily."
Have a good day,
Bruce
Quote from: flathunter on May 23, 2010, 07:31:46 AM
Doesnt really matter if its OU, or not OU pirate - as long as we're not paying for the elecy, right ;)
I'm pleased your earth battery powered JT is still going strong. Keep up the good work. ;D
Couldnt have been said better
Quote from: Bruce_TPU on May 23, 2010, 09:07:51 AM
Remember what I said of the following, "Edison is a long time dead and buried, and yet we remember his inventions that have improved all of our lives. What will you be remembered for?? Book learning is AWESOME, but it depends, WHICH BOOKS!! I have read nearly all of the Greats, legends both recent and distant, and their writings, including Einstein. If I recall, Einstein wasn't too hip on the common conception of gravity, and came up with a mathematical formula to prove the gravity was a curvature of time and space. This idea first came to him while looking at a man on a ladder, outside of his window. Imagine that, ideas through observation. And then he spent MUCH time finding an astronomer with the proper equiptment to prove out his theory, because he did not have the skills himself."
So, Alchemist123, what will you be remembered for? Besides trying to discourage a SIMPLE experiment? It makes me wonder who you are and why you are even here? What are you worried about if it isn't going to work and of course you know this because you read it in a book. LOL If you think that mankind's sum of knowledge is contained in what we know, that is laughable! In the '70's Nixon nearly shut down the patent office because it was thought that everything that could be invented had been. How arrogant. How egotistical. Knowledge is doubling at unprecedented rates.
I will not let you or others like you discourage others from experimenting, hands on with something you or a book say can not be done!!
If we listened to them, Overunity is impossible, there is no new energy sources, or untapped old ones, so why are we even here? We should all give up if we followed your logic. But we are here for new discovery.
P.S. Also there is a LOT to be said for "American Sense"!
@ ALL
Please see the Pseudo closed loop circuit that Aaron posted at Energetic forum for those with working Lasersaber type coils to experiment with!
Aaron wrote the following:
"Both windings wound in same direction. North at (top - left in pic) of coil
when plus is at same side when switch closes. Can everyone see what is
happening here? It can decrease front side battery draw by 50% easily."
Have a good day,
Bruce
Your Ad hominem attacks are funny to say the least. You have not once provided any proof that your idea will work, and still have yet to describe how it could possibly overcome I^2 x R losses.
I am skeptical, but i have never deterred anyone from experimenting with your idea. I hate seeing modern day Keelys however claiming impossible things from science with no evidence backing up their claims, delusional at the least dangerous at the worst.
Quote from: alchemist123 on May 23, 2010, 10:01:59 AM
Your Ad hominem attacks are funny to say the least. You have not once provided any proof that your idea will work, and still have yet to describe how it could possibly overcome I^2 x R losses.
I am skeptical, but i have never deterred anyone from experimenting with your idea. I hate seeing modern day Keelys however claiming impossible things from science with no evidence backing up their claims, delusional at the least dangerous at the worst.
This is a silly argument and its getting out of hand unnecessarily. Bruce is a builder. Alchemist is a builder. There are lots of builders here - even i build when ive got the time.
Lets let our builds do the talking eh?
Now, back on topic! :D
@all,
I had a little chuckle to myself about the below beautiful sparks, he he :D.
Quote from: IotaYodi on May 22, 2010, 12:46:05 PM
Never heard of sparks being beautiful before. ;D
You can get visible sparks off a 9 volt battery. You can also have invisible "sparks" or current that isnt hot enough to ionize the air to make it visible. Whats strange to me is that a low voltage spark creates a more intense magnetic field than a higher voltage spark.
Actually, if anyone has the skills and wants to try this, it will show you just how much energy is avaliable in low voltage.
Remove the secondary HI Voltage windings of a MOT, then rewind just the secondary with 3 turns of starter motor cable.
Then if you are game, short out those 3 turns, ha ha, this will show you just how much mega jewels are making beaudifulsparks ;D.
jim
You seem convinced it was Stubblefield also Bill...thats good enough for me.
I was pretty sure also, until jeanna caused me to doubt my recall when she couldn't remember him saying it...as she's usually pretty reliable, and has done a lot of reading on the subject.
In my travels I've primed a pump or 3...which entails filling the pumping chamber so a vacuum is created in the intake pipe, when the turbine turns...drawing the water through the the intake pipe, in behind the water being pumped out of the pumping chamber.
The way I am seeing it is, "priming" the NS coil would require a pulsing of the secondary until the desired level is reached.
Regards...
Hi Bruce.
I see you drew your suggested circuit. Thanks, that is great.
I awoke this morning with this drawing in my head.
It is the circuit that Lasersaber is using and the one that I believe NS has described.
Of course, Lasersaber and Lidmotor are so far the only 2 guys who have one of these working so even I cannot call myself an expert. (just persistent and an expert in what has not worked! ;D )
So, here is what I believe to be the circuit diagram for the NS coil.
jeanna
That is right Jeanna. Aarons circuit is just an experimental feedback circuit to boost power.
@all
I made a quick replication of the coil yesterday , it is giving .600 v but this morning nothing, it comes back when i apply pressure to the coil , you really need to wind those tight ...
Mark
Quote from: IotaYodi on May 23, 2010, 02:17:47 PM
That is right Jeanna. Aarons circuit is just an experimental feedback circuit to boost power.
Oh I see.
thanks!
QuoteInsert Quote
@all
I made a quick replication of the coil yesterday , it is giving .600 v but this morning nothing, it comes back when i apply pressure to the coil , you really need to wind those tight ...
Yes tight, but it is the reason for the reed switch, I think.
All of mine and if I remember all of our coils lost mA production over night.
I thought I had a real winner with 19mA after only microamps, but the next day it was way down in the microamps with the rest of them.
So, you are in good company.
jeanna
Good evening ALL,
Groundloop spent a great deal of time, making the following diagrams and cleaning up Aaron's circuit drawing, to make it much easier for experimenters to experiment with the feedback/recovery circuit.
THANK YOU Groundloop for your hard work!
Cheers,
Bruce
@all
Lol , now we need a 555 ? Not good .
Just take the regular joule thief circuit , i would try 2 things connecting the base to either an additional coil or to the core via a diode .
If there is a additional coil connect one end to the positive of the galvanic battery the other to the base of the transistor. Or even try a none connected base exciter type .
Please no 555 or additional battery .
Mark
Thank you groundloop!
This is a beautiful drawing. It is clear etc.
I am all for the pulse motor with led on secondary.
I also think the motor can be strong.
John Bedini has made strong motors from something like this.
About Aaron's ideas,
I am not ready to enhance my NS coils yet since I have yet to make mine work as described...(but that is coming soon.)
We have not explored what the patent describes, yet.
Of course there are always bunches of folks who like to jump ahead, so this is a great place to experiment, and a great direction. Aaron has spent a lot of time experimenting with these.
Quote from: Mk1 on May 23, 2010, 10:35:23 PM
Just take the regular joule thief circuit , i would try 2 things connecting the base to either an additional coil or to the core via a diode .
If there is a additional coil connect one end to the positive of the galvanic battery the other to the base of the transistor.
I agree with you Mark.
these are my best bet for the first stage.
I think since we see most of the pictures of these coils in pairs the evidence is strong that they work in pairs.
And, I also prefer the joule thief for my pulse generator.
And besides, I honestly believe that this IS a joule thief with an inherent battery and a mechanical switch.
I kind of want to give Nathan Stubblefield as much honor as I can for making this remarkable invention.
I have mentioned this before and I will now post a fuzzy picture of a joule thief circuit on a breadboard which is using a Stubblefield coil for its magnetic induction.
Another way to say it is this is a stubblefield coil being made to work with a transistor instead of a reed switch.
the light is at the C-E
The secondary produces about 40v
Sorry about the fuzz... ;)
jeanna
Jeanna:
I agree with you 100%! With what I have learned here on ou.com over the past years, I have to agree that the NS coils IS a early rendition of the JT circuit. It is all related as we suspected in the early days of our research.
This is going to be good.
Bill
I may have found a supplier for cloth covered wire. Found a chinese company that said they can supply me with 1500 feet spools of cotton covered galvanized steel wire 20 gauge. thought why does the copper have to be covered why not the steel :). will post more when i find out more information and actually try to make one of these batteries.
Bruce,
Could you please delete the two circuits in my drawing and just leave the
coil? It was not clear to me how those circuit worked and did them wrong.
Sorry for the mistake.
Groundloop.
@ Groundloop,
Nice to see you again.
@all,
Here is what I have been up to the last couple of weeks, a lot more to be made before it is finished.
My cotton winding machine on it's first test run, no bare copper wire yet, got a few bugs to iron out with pullies, drive belting, got to build a couple of PWM speed controlers, but it works.
jim
Please click on the BELOW PAPERCLIP
thanks
Really nice work Electricme! :)
QuoteFound a chinese company that said they can supply me with 1500 feet spools of cotton covered galvanized steel wire 20 gauge
Find out the total price for shipping to the states.
Quotethought why does the copper have to be covered why not the steel
The copper is the current carrying wire. If its not insulated someway it will short out. You could use insulated magnet wire. The iron wire can be insulated at the same time as it doesnt have to be bare. It would be easier to wind to as you wouldnt need to interleave another cotton insulator to prevent the shorting out of the iron wire. Even the bare iron wire cant touch itself.
Quote from: RudyT on May 25, 2010, 09:49:54 AM
I may have found a supplier for cloth covered wire. Found a chinese company that said they can supply me with 1500 feet spools of cotton covered galvanized steel wire 20 gauge. thought why does the copper have to be covered why not the steel :) . will post more when i find out more information and actually try to make one of these batteries.
I agree with what IotaYodi has said and also will add that the galvanized wire is zinc coated with a very thin layer that will break down very quickly. Better to use just iron wire and use the cotton on the copper wire only.
Here is a thought...will this company sell you just the cotton insulating tubing? It would be great to be able to buy rolls of this and then we could stuff our own copper wire into it. Not as easy as the real deal but a lot easier than what some of us have been doing.
@ Jim:
Excellent work on your machine! That is an amazing design.
Bill
Seems to me that cotton may have been the only insulation for wire they had back then.
All the really old wire I've encountered was wrapped in paper strands and covered with a cotton jacket.
Later on they used some weak rubber appearing compound, also jacketed with cotton.
Does that mean or imply that any type of insulated copper wire could also be used...it would sure make life a lot easier.
Regards...
Quote from: IotaYodi on May 25, 2010, 11:52:53 AM
Really nice work Electricme! :)
Find out the total price for shipping to the states.
I agree
Good stuff jim!
QuoteYou could use insulated magnet wire. ...... Even the bare iron wire cant touch itself.
I just want to remind you that there needs to be a galvanic current in here, and with insulated magnet wire there would not be any current.
jeanna
Quote from: jeanna on May 25, 2010, 04:12:45 PM
I agree
Good stuff jim!
I just want to remind you that there needs to be a galvanic current in here, and with insulated magnet wire there would not be any current.
jeanna
I agree. And the same for any insulated copper wire. Moisture must be able to reach these materials and be held there.
Bill
I guess I should have specifically mentioned polyester...in the craft section of the dollar store I picked up a 40 meter roll of poly cord.
All you would have to do is secure a bare copper wire to the center cording core and pull the cord out while drawing wire along until the poly jacket is completely covering the copper wire...and bobs yer uncle.
I also wouldn't rule out other types of insulation just yet either...the effect may just be a different one, involving other methods of transference of energy.
Who knows what NS would have done with modern materials...that includes the transistor.
After all, there's more than one way to skin an inductor.
Regards...
QuoteI just want to remind you that there needs to be a galvanic current in here,
Yep your right you need the galvanic part too. If I find cotton covered iron wire Ill be using that. Ns made the statement that bare iron wire magnified the magnetic field. Someone will have to prove to me that dry or wet cotton will diminish a magnetic field. Really cant see cotton covered iron wire diminishing the galvanic action to any extent either as your interleaving the bare iron with cotton anyway.
Upon closer inspection of my poly cording, I don't believe the weave is tight enough to prevent shorting.
I will be on the lookout for a tighter weave though.
Hmmm, I wonder if Sy Sperling would have a line on a good weave ??
Regards...
@all,
Thanks everyone of you all for those kind words regarding my cotton winding machine.
Please understand it's not completed yet, the winding part still needs tuning up a bit, the electronics (PWM circuit boards) which I have here have to be assembled, then there is the Feed and wind/take off support mechanism and it's electrical drive to be built.
A lot of work still to happen ha ha, but I'm enjoying myself.
@Iota
The stubblefield coil needs the interaction between the bare copper and iron wires, and the water bridges between them being the galvanic component, if either of the wires were covered in an electrical insulation the coil would not work.
But, I totally agree with your opinion of using cotton on an iron wire instead of the copper wire, cotton on either wire forms the barrier between them.
But if cotton was wound on BOTH bare copper and Iron wires, then as ....... said, you wouldn't need a layer sheet of cotton to seperate between layers, it's a very novel idea and when my cotton winding machine is working I will shuve some iron wire through it and see what happens when I wind a stubblefield coil with it.
jim
@ All,
Success is announced, I have been able to cover a wire with cotton thread, not just a few inches but about 6 to 7 feet of it.
It finally happened, but I have been able to cover a "wait for it" (0,099 inch or 2.52mm) IRON WIRE with cotton thread.
One very big surprise I got was the amount of effort I had to exert to draw the wire through the machine.
It so happened I had about 30 feet of high tensile IRON fencing wire laying about here, so it got the honours of being the very first to be put through the cotton winding machine.
Because the iron wire was so springy, I had to feed it through a long steel tube to keep it straight and in line with the feed hole. I can see any iron wire will have to be heat treated before it could be utilised on a stubblefield coil.
What I want to do is to post several tiny weeny videos here so anyone can get the idea of how the machine works.
We will start by doing a 360 degrease around the rotating machinery, then move onto the next TWV and then onto the last TWV.
jim
Remember, just click on the PAPER CLIP below to watch it all happen.
Jim:
You are a genius sir! That is GREAT! So now, we can all ship you our wire and, for a fee of course, you can coat it in cotton for us.
THE ELECTRICME COTTON WIRE COVERING COMPANY
In a year, or less, you will be bigger than Microsoft.
This is truly an awesome design. I will drink a toast to you, and your success, tonight before bed.
Excellent.
Bill
Quoteif either of the wires were covered in an electrical insulation the coil would not work.
Not according to NS. Also the copper was originally insulated and not bare except on the secondary. Both wires could be insulated with cotton. He stated the magnetic field intensity wouldnt be as strong which I disagree with. Also I see a dead short if both wires are in contact when current is running through the copper wire. Or both wires could be considered as one making the polarity the same. The strength of the galvanic current might lower with both wires insulated,but tests need to be done as to how much.
A great job of engineering the cotton machine. Par Excellence!! :)
@Bill,
Good idea, we can get out custom cotton covered wire from our own source
-----
@Jim,
That machine is amazing.
You did this so well, and quickly too!
I love that machine.
thank you master of machines,
jeanna
@all
I will try to make this short , if your coil goes down it needs pressure, just think of the laundry dried out side or in the dryer .
But NS would not have this problem since his design took care of that , and most of us can't even see it ...
His coil is also a big vise for the coil , if it did go down a turn on that bolt and that is it ... ::)
Mark
I tough the wood spacer on this coil where thick for nothing , nope there is always a reason .
@MK1
Quote from: Mk1 on May 26, 2010, 06:34:58 PM
@all
I will try to make this short , if your coil goes down it needs pressure, just think of the laundry dried out side or in the dryer .
But NS would not have this problem since his design took care of that , and most of us can't even see it ...
His coil is also a big vise for the coil , if it did go down a turn on that bolt and that is it ... ::)
Mark
I tough the wood spacer on this coil where thick for nothing , nope there is always a reason .
That's right, I have noticed people saying in their posts they were getting similar results with their coil building over the past few years.
In Lasersabers You Tube videos (which are just awesome) he wets his stubblefield coil layers every time he finishes each layer, we can see the volts rise and the Ma also when he does this.
The stubblefield coil begins to activate as it gets wet, then as it is wetted more, it reaches a point where it becomes too wet and it's performance falls. Then as the coil is removed from the "wet" situation, (bucket of water etc) it begins to dry out and as it does so the coil begins to activate again until it dries out past the happy moisture medium.
Stubblefield made his coils with thick wooden ends, I see this has 2 purposes.
1 the ends had the strength to hold the coil geometry together.
2 the wood ends soak up the "wet" or hold a level of moisture which is able to use capillary action to keep a level of wetness through the coil for a far longer period of time.
Maybe we should wet, or soak the wood ends before we make each coil, call it "priming the ends", it would help to speed up the coils output.
I see the damp earth as being always damp, and the dampness is allowed over a period of time to "recharge" the wetness of the coil assembly. This will allow the coil to operate for years at a time (bar floods or long periods of droughts.
Just my 2 cents.
jim
I agree with the wooden ends and its capillary action. The tighter and better the winds the more uniform the magnetic field also. From what I see to maximize the potential of the coil, the windings should be as perfect as you can get. Side by side and directly on top of each other.
@all
I new video from lidmotor , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGZWJwlJFzY
I am finally somebody :D ...
Yes!
I am so glad he tried your idea.
I think I might buy some pipe with ends and make me a stubby.
I still have not received my soft iron so I cannot make the lasersaber kind, so it might be great to make a stubby with end caps for squeezing the wires and try out an idea I want to try.
thank you for your great idea,
jeanna
@ Mk1
Being new in this forum I did not realise that you are the original creator of the stubby Stubblefield coil Lidmotor shows in his latest video.
You propably said it somewhere in these threads, nevertheless I take the liberty to ask some questions:
- Did you insulate the core (with cotton or a sticky tape)? The core should be black iron (soft if possible, but steal seems to work too)? What about using a bunch of galvanised iron wire sticks as a core, binding them together tightly with some tape to form a rod?
- Dimesions and material of the wires? Which cotton covered wire did you use? I guess one has to use galvanised iron wire? What about thin wire, would not that be easier to wind tightly?
- Some people talk about using aluminium wire instead of the iron wire? What is your opinion, is galvanised iron better?
Greetings, Conrad
Quote from: conradelektro on May 28, 2010, 06:15:04 AM
@ Mk1
Being new in this forum I did not realise that you are the original creator of the stubby Stubblefield coil Lidmotor shows in his latest video.
You propably said it somewhere in these threads, nevertheless I take the liberty to ask some questions:
- Did you insulate the core (with cotton or a sticky tape)? The core should be black iron (soft if possible, but steal seems to work too)? What about using a bunch of galvanised iron wire sticks as a core, binding them together tightly with some tape to form a rod?
- Dimesions and material of the wires? Which cotton covered wire did you use? I guess one has to use galvanised iron wire? What about thin wire, would not that be easier to wind tightly?
- Some people talk about using aluminium wire instead of the iron wire? What is your opinion, is galvanised iron better?
Greetings, Conrad
Sorry Conrad , my part is at the very end of the video , when he said that someone mentioned that the coil went down because of the missing pressure , Most of us even me at first failed to recognize how important the bolt is to a functional coil ...
I am only responsible of seeing how perfect NS design was.
Mark
Cotton or silk should be used on the core but other materiel's like mica could be tried. The core should be at least soft iron with a low carbon content. High iron,low carbon with silicone is better. Plain steel that has a high carbon content can become permanently magnetized,hindering the field collapse as some here can attest to. Aluminum has a much lower galvanic current and magnetic field collapse than iron,but could be used for lower voltages and current to run a jewel thief or other device. So far there are problems with galvanized wire. Ns didnt have galvanized wire back then. Thinner wire would require more turns for more power,so it depends on how much power you want. The wires dont have to be the exact same size but you dont want a large difference. It would seem that a high iron, low carbon core and plain iron wire with low carbon would be ideal. Finding a core is easy, but a high iron low carbon wire is not. Plain steel wire would probably not work well because of the magnetization .
Its getting old I know but Ill say it again. Location of the coil was a prime priority with Stubblefield.
QuoteSo far there are problems with galvanized wire.
Can you elaborate on this? I think I may have missed some posts describing the issues.
Thanks
Darryl
QuoteCan you elaborate on this?
Lidmotor,dragon and others are reporting there coils last only for a day or two. Lidmotor found his zinc coating ate up after only one day.
Quote from: IotaYodi on May 28, 2010, 11:32:41 AM
Lidmotor,dragon and others are reporting there coils last only for a day or two. Lidmotor found his zinc coating ate up after only one day.
That part is wrong , i have been trying to tell you guys for days , you need to put pressure on the coil if it goes down ...
I hope some will listen to me if not listen to lidmotor , look at his movie until the end ...
Mark
Don't listen to a word Mark says!
Listen to me instead.
Mark really does know what he's talking about, take him seriously!
Regards...
QuoteThat part is wrong , i have been trying to tell you guys for days , you need to put pressure on the coil if it goes down
Mk I agree with that. Ns even stated it. But thats not wrong. This is what they have said. Even with pressure though I dont see what that has to do with lidmotors zinc being destroyed.
To add to this. The windings should be uniform and lined up and when you add the pressure the coil windings are evenly distributed.
@IotaYodi
The battery did not stop because the zinc got destroyed , it will work with and without zinc ...
The issue is if a layer of zinc , get dissolved the wire is then smaller , therefore need pressure ...
Telling people about the zinc , will only confused them and is not the issue , regardless of what anyone had said in the pass.
Promoting that info is wrong , i had to say it.
Hi, Mk1
I agree with you about the zinc on the wire not being a problem. Aluminum wire will get brittle very quickly so I do not recommend it. Pressing the coil is an interesting idea.
I'm on the verge of a possible major breakthrough with the coil I made in my last YouTube videos. I am testing it now and so far it seems to be working but it will take about a week of constant running before I know for sure. I will keep you all posted.
QuoteThe battery did not stop because the zinc got destroyed
My statement of the zinc being destroyed should have been the zinc helped to destroy the iron wire and its properties by galvanic action. Bad choice of words by me by not paying attention.
Researching zinc I found that zinc coated wires that are pitted deteriorate faster with a galvanic action. Not trying to put out false information just pointing out zinc pit falls when pumping current. Having a larger zinc coating on a better draw of wire would give you better galvanic action. The question would be how long will it last and is it going to make this coil better. Since iron is right below zinc in conductivity this makes zinc a much better conductor of electricity. The flow of current would then be higher on the thin zinc coating than the iron. Whats that doing to the irons magnetic field as well as to the zinc coating? Serious question. It may help to scrape off the zinc on the terminal ends and try to get more current on the iron wire itself and see what happens. Another question for me is if the radiant energy part of the current is helping to deteriorate the zinc?
I have read this patent frequently and noticed the statement that the secondary is wound with ordinary wire. You would think the reference to "ordinary wire" is copper just because of its conductivity. Why would they use the word ordinary wire on an electrical patent such as this. Was it a mistake or should be obvious statement. Is there another statement somewhere else where he says the secondary is copper? Iron may not be as good a conductor as copper, but its magnetic field and collapse is more profound.
My observations and opinions of this ongoing mystery!
@IotaYodi
Well , you know lidmotor redid his coil with the same wire , the only difference is how tight it is , but why do they galvanize iron ?
If it rust faster ?
All i am saying is make the coil like NS , there wire will get smaller with time ,now you can re do it tight or put it in the garbage , or pull it tight like NS show us with a bolt , even harder to find , but if you have the core easy to make .
On a prototype coil the bolts is not needed but a final working devise really needs it .
I want us to work it out , nothing against you , but the info about the wire rusting being the reason for the coil failure , is bad all around .
It only confuses people , doesn't provide solutions , make them potentially spend more money then needed on wire .
But the real question is galvanized steel will stay magnetized , and how is that different then regular iron , And i am not talking about the core but the coil.
Cheers
Mark
@all,
A couple of days ago I bought a coil of wire covered in zinc, now after reading all the above posts I am beginning to realise this may have been a mistake, but I intend to remove the zinc using electrolysis, simple to setup in a plastic 2 gallon bucket of water. One electrode is the zinc covered iron wire, the other will be a short length of copper pipe and connect them to a car battery charger.
I'm thinking the galvanic action that takes place on metal hull ships is stopped by screwing zinc plates to the hulls, the zinc is sacrificed instead of the boats hull.
It just may be the zinc on iron wire wound coils is functioning as the sacrificial anode, once the zinc is gone, the stubblefield coil will begin to function properly.
As someone pointed out, squeezing the coil produces an output, as the copper wire and the iron wire comes closer together, so the electrical reaction between the two dissimilar coils goes up.
Once the all the zinc is gone, I should have just iron wire to wind my stubblefield coils with.
Another thing is, the more turns on the primary, the greater the galvanic output of magnetism, voltage and current.
Work is continuing on my Cotton Winding Machine.
jim
Jim:
I think you are spot on with your reasoning. I think you are correct that the very thin zinc coating will be the first to go. It is probably only angstroms in thickness and it would not take long.
MK1 has an interesting thought on the NS coil whereby you add additional pressure via the nut and bolt and compress the windings as they deteriorate. This may turn out to be a very important observation in all of this.
Be well my friend.
Bill
Quotebut why do they galvanize iron ?
If it rust faster ?
There are three dissimilar metals working against each other here with electric current involved. A different ballgame. If you have galvanized wire alone like barb wire it does last longer. After about 20 years or so in the natural environment like heat,cold and water,barb wire starts to visibly rust.
QuoteBut the real question is galvanized steel will stay magnetized , and how is that different then regular iron
That can be a large difference. Steel does have iron but if you have a high carbon content it becomes permanently magnetized. That will destroy the magnetic field collapse and the interactions with the adjacent copper wire even with a proper iron core. Standard carbon steel also has a much lower conductivity than iron. Other steels are even lower. I live on a ranch and have done magnetic remanence tests on galvanized barb wire,regular galvanized wire and construction tie wire. The barb wire stayed magnetized even when I switched polarity. The smaller tie wire was about the same. Your standard tie wire is high carbon steel. I did 2 sizes of regular galvanized wire. The smaller one,maybe 20 gauge,didnt show much at all. The larger one showed some.
My point is the amount of iron in the wire whether galvanized or not. Plus the size of the wire. You have 3 dissimilar metals,copper,steel and zinc. Thats a large galvanic action from what I see. What I dont want is for people to think that plain galvanized wire is the way to go when trying to build a full working coil. The cost of a proper gauge galvanized high iron content wire will be higher and the coil is more than just galvanic.
I think the galvanized wire experiments are great and are needed. I spend hours on research. Being an electrician for years I know a little about electricity but I dont know the fine details of its physics. I want to know as much as I can with this coil in detail before I build it. I pay attention to everyone who is fooling with this. Details of these experiments are important. The more details the better the understanding for me. If I dont fully understand I will ask questions and everyone else should. Stubblefield made this work and I want to know the reasons why. These mysteries of Stubblefield, Ed L and others from the past are not solved yet. The only thing I can say about that Is "What in the wide world of sports is going on here"!!
Quote from: lasersaber on May 28, 2010, 07:32:43 PM
I'm on the verge of a possible major breakthrough with the coil I made in my last YouTube videos. I am testing it now and so far it seems to be working but it will take about a week of constant running before I know for sure. I will keep you all posted.
Hi Lasersaber,
Please be more verbal with us.
It is very important that any breakthrough ideas should be expressed.
We all need to let ideas roll around in our heads.
And, as always, I hope you will tell us if something does NOT work. It is as important as when something does work.
Case in point...
Thank you for explaining the reason you switched from the aluminum wire.
I was thinking I would use it, and now I understand you found brittleness.
@everyone,
I also found brittleness with annealed iron.
I have many of the coils made with that. It became a little brittle and if I moved the electrodes around too much they broke, so since it gave me blisters and became brittle I switched to zinc coated iron.
I think the reason that a coil fails is that
a piece of rust can bridge the gap to short it out.
I say this because when I used the "tube of cloth" method of wire separation it never has shorted, but when I used the "wind cloth around it" method, one coil did short and became un-usable.
With the tube, it was impossible for anything to slip around a wire.
---
and, my soft iron finally arrived yesterday.
I hope to complete my Lasersaber/stubblefield replication soon.
thank you,
jeanna
Thanks Bill :D
@Jeanna
If you put a connection block the coils and secure it, then you wont have any more problems connecting to your coil.
@ IotaYodi
I am a little worried about a slight problem I can see some of us having down the road when we get our coils cranked up and running and I want to pass this directly by you personally as lucky you are the resident electrician. ;)
So far, no-one has been able to get their coils functioning with a high volt or amp output, but this is going to change soon, I can feel it, what I am saying is people here are a bit lasy when it comes to precortions. I am no different, I go and touch a bare wire and I feel nothing from my stubblefield coil.
As you would be aware, electrical connections, wet soggy equipment and accidental finger contacts is a receipt for dissaster.
But my main query is, how to keep the secondary dry while the inner primary coils need to be damp?
You and I both know adding water to any electrical output or working device is plain idiotic, eventually we are going to see sparks flying, maybe I am wrong, I havent seen a stubblefield coil functioning as Nathan Stubblefield says it will.
I think Lasersaber is getting very close to the point of being able to produce a secondary output, mabye he got tingling fingers from touching live secondary connections ha ha.
I can see some of us getting burnt fingers and shocks if we are not casting a careful eye on these coils as they begin to work with resonable outputs.
If anyone eventually gets their stubblefield cell output production to be at 120 volts or 240 volts as in my case, then an accidental contact with a bare wire is going to be curtains, or give a mighty whack they will never forget.
These coils should be able to put out some heavy amps and voltages, but I am referring to the secondary only.
What I want to do to reduce the possibility of accidents is to limit any output to 48volts max but at say 45 amps, just enough to recharge a set of 4X12v gellcells which are curently hooked up to an UPS.
Then I got lights, and it will be a start in the right direction.
jim
Jim, you're point is well taken. I was hit by 220v 25 years ago and I still remember it like it happened yesterday. My mom got nailed by 25k volts when she was seven months pregnant with me. She still remembers the experience vividly, although I don't. Maybe that's why I'm so interested in all things electrical today. :o
I don't think we'll be getting a lot of amps from our coils. High voltage, yes. But low amps.
According to the time period book I have on building standard induction coils, "the ratio of transformation is directly proportional to the number of turns of wire on the primary and secondary coils...if there are 10 turns of wire on the primary and 1000 turns of wire on the secondary coil there will be 100 times as high an electromotive force developed at the terminals of the secondary as that employed in energizing the primary coil, while of course the current or amperage will be proportionately reduced."
Now, of course, we're not dealing with a standard induction coil here, but the laws of transformation, I believe, are the same. Thus, using the above example, if our primaries produce 1 volt at 40mA, we can expect a potential of 100v @ .4mA from a single coil - still very usable. This doesn't take into consideration any "outside" forces like telluric currents or whatever. Also, since it will be high frequency, the possibilities are endless.
Just my thoughts.
Darryl
electric you...Are you saying that you already got 250 volts out of your stubblefield coil?...
Best Regards
QuoteBut my main query is, how to keep the secondary dry while the inner primary coils need to be damp?
Different ways of doing this depending on how you build the coil. Figure 4 of the patent shows the primary inserted into a larger wooden spool with an insulated Mica covering on the secondary. Holes in the wooden caps could be pre drilled on both ends, and water put in that way without removing the coil. You would probably have to hand build the secondary's spool which may be a little difficult.
If folks are going to wrap the secondary directly over the primary coil, I myself would use Mica to separate the two coils. The reasons I say that is I dont think you want any galvanic action on the secondary. Using just cotton between the two you would get galvanic action. Also from what Ive read about Mica is that it has inductive property's as well as an insulator. Whether Mica would help the coil to operate better I dont know but it wouldn't hurt. Once the secondary is wound then Mica or other insulator would go over top of that to insulate from shock. Holes still need to be drilled in the caps over the primary coil to insert water.
You may be able to use Liquid Tape which is used in underground splices and such to water proof them. You could paste it on the primary, let it dry then put electrical tape over that,then wind the secondary over that. That would seem to put a waterproof barrier between the two.
Mica is cheap and comes in different shapes and forms. It can also be made into a slurry mix and brushed on. The only schemes I can think of at the moment.
Quote from: hoverdj on May 30, 2010, 11:01:32 AM
Jim, you're point is well taken. I was hit by 220v 25 years ago and I still remember it like it happened yesterday. My mom got nailed by 25k volts when she was seven months pregnant with me. She still remembers the experience vividly, although I don't. Maybe that's why I'm so interested in all things electrical today. :o
I don't think we'll be getting a lot of amps from our coils. High voltage, yes. But low amps.
According to the time period book I have on building standard induction coils, "the ratio of transformation is directly proportional to the number of turns of wire on the primary and secondary coils...if there are 10 turns of wire on the primary and 1000 turns of wire on the secondary coil there will be 100 times as high an electromotive force developed at the terminals of the secondary as that employed in energizing the primary coil, while of course the current or amperage will be proportionately reduced."
Now, of course, we're not dealing with a standard induction coil here, but the laws of transformation, I believe, are the same. Thus, using the above example, if our primaries produce 1 volt at 40mA, we can expect a potential of 100v @ .4mA from a single coil - still very usable. This doesn't take into consideration any "outside" forces like telluric currents or whatever. Also, since it will be high frequency, the possibilities are endless.
Just my thoughts.
Darryl
I agree with what you said. With its high freq/ high voltage characteristics this could be a good tesla coil power supply
Quote from: kukulcangod on May 30, 2010, 11:06:09 AM
electric you...Are you saying that you already got 250 volts out of your stubblefield coil?...
Best Regards
Ha Ha, I wish I was though, no, I was only saying one day it is going to happen and I was voicing my thoughts about potental problems ahead of us all.
Here is a general question, how does one get liquid mica? can we make our own?
jim
Maybe silca would work just as well as mica.Sure is easier to come by.
Quotehow does one get liquid mica? can we make our own?
You just mix mica flakes with some type of binder. Then its pasted on and it hardens. Dont know the recipe though.
Heres Mica sheets. Ebay deal is better.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#mica/=7bt82i
http://cgi.ebay.com/FLEXIBLE-MICA-HEAT-RESISTANT-INSULATION-5-SHEETS-/320531421385?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aa12958c9
Electric
I just wanted to make sure about that one, but it brought up a good point, well here is my most recent experience and this one is going to be of great inspiration I hope for all of you, I went visiting my parents house on vacations but in between visiting beautiful beaches and places I couldn't help but to rush myself into experimenting with a Tesla circuit...The coincidence was just to good to be true , I had access to a some 100 ft tall communications tower through a winding cable that was just secured to the side of my parents house!! see where I'm going? the tower wasn't in use for it was about to be brought down so I rushed myself to work, buying everything there, needless to say findigng the right stuff wasn't easy for in USA we have easy access to components, I was using the tesla circuit to gather energy from the atmosphere, my old father is turned out an overzealous critical skeptical observer more now that he is semiparalized by an embolism..He has nothing else better to do!!, so he was observing from inside the house through the window, he asked questions I answered him to the best of my ability, just to get a critical sarcastic contra reply!! -"You don't know nothing!..dumb ass the radio transmissions are powerful that's where you are getting your electricity!!"
-"Pa ...The tower is not in use right now..."
So the "dialog" continued as such while I was working then I yelled -"I got it, 190 volts!!"(voltage variates) I was so happy to see the results in the meter but I was getting tired of being in an uncomfortable position , but I tried to get the amps, I had to get the amps , then a wired slipped from my fingers for I shifted almost falling , as I struggled somehow I touched something and ZZaaaaappppp!!!! I jumped backwards shocked by the circuit!!!
Next thing I know is that my father is crying laughing at me!! I couldn't helped we were crying laughing togheter for I emmited a short scream of Haa!! and I was dirty with mudd from the night rains and my eyes got wide open as he let me readily know, my index and big thumb were numb!!
-Hahaaaa!~ I told you sooo jackass!!!
So for this and many other "powerful" reasons I believe it might be possible to reach those 250 volts with a stubblefield setting...."Are you pondering what I'm pondering pinky!!??"
The tower is gone, I couldn't continue to do experiments with it, finding the circuit to get them lights to be on at their stairs at night,electricity is ridiculously expensive over there in a land of 120f in summertime, he already fell down the stairs one night(haa!! haaa!!) at least he stopped his stubborn behaviour for a while...That after my experiment with that finality couldn't reach that simple goal due to time constraints, but nonetheless It works!!...So it is always important to keep record of what we do fellows, to many people whom can perceive history as it is written, will consider this to be important, but to others this might not be as important(you must have a higher iq to do so), therefore I know I'm in the pressence of really over the average intelligent beings, and here it is the proof of my tale :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qd2mSkQ_uog
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjEXS8BC8iU&feature=related
Keep experimenting!
Best Regards
Hi, was it static electricity collected by the long and isolated wire?
I had similar experience in the past at an amateur radio club's long wire antenna of about 40m long at 10-11m height, it gave approximatly 2-3cm sparks to the ground wire, mainly when a thunderstorm came or went by, it must have been some hundred volts induced in it, later when it cleared the voltage gradually disappeared, we could touch the wire end without any problem. Sometime we felt it must have voltage in it with respect to the ground, it 'stung', even though there was no rain/shower activity nearby, probably there was several kilometers away.
rgds, Gyula
Lidmotor made a replication of lasersaber's sticks, and runs a pulse motor and a joule thief. impossible because the volts are too low.
Have a look!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4jjZ6iMq14 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4jjZ6iMq14)
jeanna
... And, I just had to try this because I have been thinking about it for a while.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD31_yG4MNs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD31_yG4MNs)
Just as soon as I posted the video I thought of an improvement, so there will be more soon.
thank you,
jeanna
Gyulisum
I don't think it is static electricity, the voltage was pretty much constant at 90 volts and when there was no humidity it was up to 200 volts, not quite sure why but my earth battery reacted the same, now I don't want to digress from the topic, the idea is to implement this in our stubblefield coils as I'm trying to do as soon as time and materials arriving permit and then find out if the output can be improved , which I think is the case
Good Luck
Hey Lidmotor
Great job it is exciting to see this joule thief working at such low milliamps, I recall how difficult it was for me to lit up anything with 60 milliamps.
Now, there is this inventor whom already has the secret to make anodes and cathodes last for a huge period of time he has a water battery the size of a regular car battery enclosed in a transparent case you can see that the bimetal blocks are only open at the bottom where water pressure is constant, the shelf life is of 10 years and he can draw after inverter and so forth 110 volts.
Best Regards
My connection was slow but ,I managed to find the link for the water battery
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J677Go-pO2k&feature=related
best regards
I hate to think this guy took it from our comments on topics like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnz3trDnTPs&feature=related
I made something out of cement, it didn't work after a while and water didn't activate it again, for what I hear in the video it says it uses magnesium and carbon, guys...we were close, really close...I think we should work togheter making a corporation to develop the stubblefield coil somehow...I think even using water will eventually deplete our drinking clean water, at least in florida despite rains and everything there are ridiculous restrictions about it, then again , there is water almost anywhere and it doesn't need it clean, question is how powerful and scalable this invention is..But if you ask me I think it can be running our cars with hydrogen production, cost effective ? I don't know...
My two cents... ???
That is why I have been working with magnesium and carbon on my EB or EER since the beginning about 3 years ago.
Bill
Woah,
I just finished row 3 on my new laser/stubblefield coil.
I think 2 rows a day might be too hard on my hands, and 3 is out of the question.
I am using 24awg or 0.51mm bare copper covered with cotton
and
19 awg soft steel fence wire. I include the word soft as it is on the label.
It might be soft and it is less stiff than the black annealed but this is very hard to move around.
So far so good. I have no shorts and around 0.7v .
Maybe later I will take a pic.
The firestarter / copper battery is still only lighting a red led from the secondary. but I can light 2 in parallel.
I thought I could get the spike volts up, but the firestarted gives up its current very reluctantly.
So far the top spike is 1.47v
I am wondering if the best thing would be a combo where the firestarter has some mag ribbon spooling off to the neg of the circuit and the copper wire is the positive, just because it is easier to use a wire.
I am quite sure that the 24 gauge copper is just fine. It has seemed all along that the longer wire did better than the shorter one and the gauge did not matter.
My guess is it is just about surface area.
thank you,
jeanna
Quote from: kukulcangod on June 02, 2010, 07:43:06 AM
I hate to think this guy took it from our comments on topics like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnz3trDnTPs&feature=related
/quote]
Those battery have been around for quite some time , they are just not available in America NOPOPO battery ( just PIPI) .
http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2007/09/nopopo_urinepowered_battery.html
Thank You for the encouragements ;D!
I admire the many mixtures discussed in this thread, being mentally very far from chemistry. May be alchemy attracts me.
Attached see two photos of a long running test I set up with the "copper - tile cement - aluminium" cell and a low power Joule Thief (the also interesting circuit with an air coil can be seen in a recent post in the Joule Thief thread). The idea is to have this thing (a red led driven by the cell, pretty boring) sitting around in my house till it self destructs. One just has to glance at it occasionally to see whether the little LED is still on. Only once the LED is off one has to do something (like looking for a failure of the circuit or the cell).
In defense of the commercially available frost-proof tile-cement: It sticks to about everything very well (including metals, even skin) and takes heat, cold, dry and wet for at least 30 years. And it is in essence just "concrete". So initially the bond between the cement and the metals is excellent. And if there is a chemical reaction on the metal it should fall of the cement eventually and one should see a layer of stuff. I want to keep the cell dry (at the atmospheric humidity of my house throughout the seasons).
A strange idea (definitely not new and not originating from me):
Reading through this thread and watching many good and bad videos on YouTube about "crystal cells" it came to my mind, that most of the cells shown and discussed (in spite of a multitude of ingredients) produce about 0.15 mA (with some little variations up and down) no matter how big or small they are. I am intentionally not very precise with this statement, but there are no small cells giving 10 mA (withe a size of 10 mm to 100 mm) or really big cells (e.g. one meter wide) giving many Amperes like bigger commercial batteries.
For me (knowing less than nothing) this points away from a pure chemical interpretation of these "crystal cells". I will therefore go into the "multiplication" of a very simple cells (why not the "copper - tile cement - aluminium" cell, because all the materials are readily available).
By "multiplication" I mean a setup or arrangement of the elements in a way that one gets (automatically) many cells in series and parallel (hundreds, if not thousands). This is a geometry problem, a way of producing very many cells in a clever way to avoid too much manual labour or complicated machinery.
I am thinking about "brushes with many bristles", "nail beds" or "combs". Once I have something set up you will hear from it.
Something from the environment could be soaked up by these cells (heat fluctuations, electronic smog, magnetic currents in the earth, static electricity flows in the atmosphere, even neutrinos from the sun or the overused zero point energy). If this "soaking" is part of it, one wants to try a lot of "receivers" instead of one "big receiver", because one "receiver" might only "soak up" a tiny amount of electricity mostly independent of its size.
Just dreaming and speculating.
Greetings, Conrad
Sorry, my last post should have gone into the thread "Crystal Power Cell by John Hutchison".
Having too many windows open on the screen is not such a good idea.
Greetings, Conrad
@all
While reading about NS , i stumble up on Bedini site on the information , that
Tesla was quite taken by the NS invention and decided to develop the most efficient version , reading about Tesla and NS made me realize that when they talk about the energy from the cosmos and pumping it , we don't recognize it today , but its the galvanic pump ...
Look at this drawing , back in those days wires cotton covered wire was a standard thing . Look at the connection , it is the same as NS ...
Look it even says electromagnet , one iron wire and one copper covered coil connect them like the schematic , and voila one electromagnet .
the Pancake coil at the bottom of the Tesla coil , same thing the power is with in , raise it high enough to get a kapenze to spark ...
Mark
This is so cool ... This is a renaissance , the intelligent design power by design included in the circuit ... ;D
Quote from: Mk1 on June 09, 2010, 06:11:12 PM
@all
While reading about NS , i stumble up on Bedini site on the information , that
Tesla was quite taken by the NS invention and decided to develop the most efficient version , reading about Tesla and NS made me realize that when they talk about the energy from the cosmos and pumping it , we don't recognize it today , but its the galvanic pump ...
Look at this drawing , back in those days wires cotton covered wire was a standard thing . Look at the connection , it is the same as NS ...
Look it even says electromagnet , one iron wire and one copper covered coil connect them like the schematic , and voila one electromagnet .
the Pancake coil at the bottom of the Tesla coil , same thing the power is with in , raise it high enough to get a kapenze to spark ...
Mark
This is so cool ... This is a renaissance , the intelligent design power by design included in the circuit ... ;D
Hi Mark,
A very, very interesting idea, indeed. Thank you for sharing it.
Cheers,
Bruce
@ All:
I have received a note from Jim (electricme) and he asked me to pass on a message. He has been tied up with tornado damage down in his neck of the woods and also, his satellite dish is still limiting his connection speeds to down below that of dial-up.
He is fine and will be posting here with us as soon as he can. His cotton covering wire machine is working well and he has obtained a very large roll of cotton.
Bill
@bruce_tpu
Thanks , for the support ...
@all
I started a new tread http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=9287.msg244330
Where i will encourage more discussion about intelligent design concepts .
And speculation on this new old knowledge , i believe we can consider our self initiated .
Mark
@ All:
This was just posted over in the Kapanadze topic area:
"More very important information from JLN.
"To find the imbalance of ground potential produced by the telluric currents, I have built and I use a kind of tellurmeter, see below some photos and the diagram of my device..."
This might prove very helpful here.
Bill
The kapanatze solution was the next evolutionary step for our experiments with telluric currents, nothing else we do around the stubblefield coil would work unless is taken on this logical path, yeah right, I know, easier said than done, but finally someone got it right and that's just to show how thousands of people would say is not possible when they just simply failed at faithfully replicating the apparatus, but I can't stop wondering, what hapened to Don L Smith generators? he showed the same type of arrangement and he said that his invention was the step ahead that Nikola Tesla needed to go in order to get this results, so is it truth what hapened to Tesla repression wise? I hope this results are truth, the good part everyone now has it, and I forsee a revolution if they can get through with all of this steorn stuff, kapanatze and so forth, still we have to see this being applied to save the world not just for profit through controlling corporations, that's why I think this is a great triumph for we finally have access to the apparatus as the people whom want the best for this world...
Cheers
Take lasersaber's NS coil and replace the reed and rotor with a hall switch driving a fet. Probably have to start it with an external power source. Would we be achieving a magnetic resonance? How high would the voltage peaks be?
Half of the cycle in the oscillations could be considered a recharge cycle. Would this help mitigate battery deterioration.
Then add caps to the coils for lc resonance for more voltage. It might be a little tough getting both the mag resonance
and the coil lc resonance to sync up which will show up as modulation. But don't worry. Modulation is gooooood.
Take care.
nap
OK I have 6 rows finished.
It makes me impatient to wind these so I can force about 1 row a day, so instead of row 7, here is a pic of the 6th row.
btw, I am just starting to get a little compass swing about 10 degrees.
jeanna
@jeanna
Nice work , did you get any reading do they compare to Laser saber version.
I mist the wire size , the core seems like a 1/4 inch bolt ?
Only 10 degree , are you using the same type of globe compass ?
Was it sitting in front of the core same height ?
Are you still have motor issue , if yes maybe you are using a different reed switch , real important is the switch normally state , switch ON at rest or regularly OFF , some have both connections . I think you need a normally on switch .
Keep the great work !
Also hate you seen Lidmotor with the cap ? this is great i wonder how high the cap will go ! Do you know of any scope video on the NS ?
Mark
New video with scope shot , from Lidmotor
http://www.youtube.com/user/Lidmotor#p/a/u/0/MGwylnFvfZo
The picture is from Lid Scope shot , if we can recapture the second positive spike when it normalize , we could charge a cap that cap would make the Ns coil stronger with each kick , i am not sure a super cap is the right idea there smaller high voltage cap should do best until something breaks , i mean the switch .
Quote from: Mk1 on June 18, 2010, 10:12:19 PM
@jeanna
Nice work , did you get any reading do they compare to Laser saber version.
I mist the wire size , the core seems like a 1/4 inch bolt ?
Thanks.
I have readings that compare to Lasersaber's, but after his second row, he just said he expected a few things, and yes, I sort of have those amounts.
What was not happening until this last row was any magnetic movement like his.
QuoteOnly 10 degree , are you using the same type of globe compass ?
Was it sitting in front of the core same height ?
I have a swivel type compass like his but it does not stand by itself.
I made a small video of the movement today. I could upload it here because it is 4 Mb and is an avi file.
the swing is in the middle of what he showed us.
I asked him but have not heard back, but I think I will be OK.
the placement is not so critical which is a relief, too.
QuoteAre you still have motor issue , if yes maybe you are using a different reed switch , real important is the switch normally state , switch ON at rest or regularly OFF , some have both connections . I think you need a normally on switch .
I got some tiny neo magnets to glue onto a dvd.
the rotor is a dvd motor and has a nice quick response.
I have problems with stupid things like how to get the motor to be stable and yet be able to move it around.
And, looking at the different ways other people have solved this for themselves has helped a lot.
(I really love youtube for this reason.)
QuoteAlso have you seen Lidmotor with the cap ? this is great i wonder how high the cap will go ! Do you know of any scope video on the NS ?
Do you mean the mosquito light?
The one with a cap and no resistor at all?
I am anxious to make one of these, but so far, I have not found the right cap and I made the pete AA instead. :D
In fact, lidmotor has uploaded a scope shot of his still working NS coil.
It is very unusual, because the backspike is visibly longer than the front spike.
He talks a bit about the capacitance of the coil and other ideas.
It is a good one. I have wanted to see this scopeshot for a very long time.
here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGwylnFvfZo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGwylnFvfZo)
jeanna
Nice Pirate! These meters have been around a long time but Naudins is the simplest and cheapest Ive seen on the net.
Im still thinking spark gap to kick in the switch since a low voltage spark gap has a more intense magnetic field than a high voltage one. It could alternate the iron core on and off. Plus the radiant energy from the "spark" gap would be introduced into the coil itself even at a distance. I would assume a cap would be needed for the spark gap. I would like to hear thoughts or ideas on this. Even a wiring diagram.
I have a question for those who have made a magnetic wheel for this. On your magnets are you using the same pole to activate the reed switch or have you alternated the poles? Im just wondering if alternating poles would help stop permanent magnetization of the iron core. Im having a problem visualizing polarity without using 2 coils. Also the magnetic polarity of a spark gap.
I finished row 7 on my #14 NS coil! yeay!
Yesterday I got a new unexploded 1 ohm resistor and I can now read the amps available from this coil.
So, if I use the 2 inside ends, the ones NS called the 10's, the measurement is 5mA.
Something made me try the outside iron with the inside copper.
The reading there is 6.6mA
but it kept going UP
!!
(usually this makes a device go down, but it rose to 7.2mA and kept going.
I have a faint memory of Lasersaber telling us this from his, so ...
I guess things are going OK.
I also just spliced on the 3rd length of iron wire. I could only get it in 50 foot lengths.
And it appears that I might be able to wind 9 rows before I get to the end of this wire, and at just about the place where I drilled the holes based on the 2" diameter lasersaber used.
Now, taking a break, ;) I think I will place some mini neo magnets around the edge of the motor rotor.
@yodi,
On my reed switch motor kit, I was instructed to make all the S face out. Then the coil had to be turned to be pulsing the S back toward the S of those magnets to push the motor along. If it is facing the wrong way, the magnets will attract the pulsing core and stop it.
jeanna
@jeanna: That would be right with that setup. Its the coils field actually turning the mag motor not the other way around.
@ Bill,
Nice find there with the above telluric field meter circuit.
I think with a little tweaking we could get a LED to glow in time as any telluric field passes (or pulses) by the short antenna.
To do this the mA meter could be replaced with a LED, a T-pot both being placed in parallel across where the capacitor is, this and LED, representing the "load" must be matched to the output that the circuit sees when the meter is in circuit.
In other words, what the circuit "sees" as its load with the meter.
If we make up several of these circuits to drive several LEDS, then we should be able to actually see the telluric wave as it flows by the antennas.
I must take a more in depth look at it at the www address I see there.
@ Jeanna,
That is a nice looking stubblefield coil there, try and keep those winds straight and in line, if they are not, the magnetic fields will be widened where the wires are not wound so close together, or magnetic fields forced tighter if the wires are wound tighter or closer together, we need an even distance between them.
@all
I eventually got my higher satellite speed back, before I couldn't even open this page let alone answer my PMs which I have done by now.
To those who sent me PMs, all I can say is sorry, my ISP knobbled my connection so low (below dial up speeds, try 206 bytes) many web sites just refused to open for me, Overunity being one of them, I hope you understand.
jim
MR. Electric
Your work is remarkable I know you won't quit at it, what you have unearthed is of extreme importance, best proof that this batteries really exhisted and in such fashion, eliminating as of now the possibility of this thing being just an attention getter for egomaniacs, hoaxers. I share the frustration of bad signals and limited time at a great great distance, you must continue, pure of heart as I feel you are, for the truth will hit hard in the face those trying to just have a sick satisfaction at misleading us.
In my modest research at the pyramids in Mexico, I discovered that certain people are more or less sensitive to this tellurics energies, which I also think is "bioenergy" , James Cameron I'm sure based his movie "Avatar" on this idea, to the Mayan it was a reality, let's start with my own experience to better illustrate the point, (talking about attention getters!) I was about 5 years of age when I touched "la piedra de el negro" or "The Hueyepan Head" out of curiosity in the middle of the museo in the city of "Catemaco" well known for thousands of years of shamanic tradition, people came over and over again to get their fingers wet in the cavity at the top of the african like features huge rock head, which used to belong to a shaman , so I extended my arm and touched it, just to get a tremendous jolt of energy thatn numbed my arm making absolutely cold!! it felt as if hitting a wall with my arm extended after running towards it, I went hysterical and grandman though I was bitten by a bug... it would take about 30 years for me to find out more about the subject via a small book publicized by a spaniard researcher, The rock was said to be oriented in a certain way for it to get "charge" with the curative energies and properties the shaman created it for, other than that it wouldn't work, remember the mayan were also experts at curing with water etc, The consequence of such jolt was getting this vivid dreams and perceptions , now remember in certain interpretations one of our biggest cities is named Teothihucan" "city where men become gods" I found a way to cure myself with such energy and water a while ago, they knew about this , and they accumulated this energy with the pyramids also aligned with the earth poles , incredibly it is not very well know that such pyramids and "la piedra de el negro" are made of piezoelectric materials, folks this is what we are taping into, but remember that the pyramids are built big for a reason, to better acummulate this energies, and don't forget the poles are shifted ever since. I hope this illustrates the point, enjoy.
Cheers
@ KUK
Thankyou, sometimes I almost giveup but am able to find the energy to keep going.
Your personal story is remarkable to say the least, I decided to findout more about the Hueyepon Head, eventually I fell down a rabbit hole and landed up here at http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapter3.pdf if you are able to read to the end, you will discover many free energy devices, all because you told all of us readers about what happened to you. ;)
The contents of the above web pdf is worth burning to a CD.
jim
@ Jeanna,
Exploded resistor? :D
Quote from: jeanna on June 19, 2010, 05:15:20 PM
I finished row 7 on my #14 NS coil! yeay!
Yesterday I got a new unexploded 1 ohm resistor and I can now read the amps available from this coil.
jeanna
Ha ha, so you are getting a little energy flowing through a 1/8th watt resistor, good.
Try changing it for a 1/2watter or 2 watter, as each one burns out move onto a higher wattage resistor, you are on the right track.
Another way to measure the energy is to see if you can measure the degreese in temperature on the resistor, put a temp probe on the resistor, set the DMM to degreese and then turn on the DMM, then turn on the power flowing through the resistor, if the DMM starts to climb in temp, then it is showing energy is flowing across the resistor.
Got your 7th row completed on your stubblefield coil, lets hope it will perform like the original stubblefield coil
Good work.
jim
Hi Jim,
I am glad you can post again!
The resistor was one of those enormo ceramic jobs. I am thinking it got wet then rusted, because for a while it continued to work if I jiggled the wire, but finally it stopped.
I threw it away and bought a pkg of 2, 1 ohm resistors...the same big square ceramic ones. I am trying to keep it dry especially when I am spraying water onto my galvanic batteries.
thank you,
jeanna
Talking about harmonics and frequencies etc I think this is of importance the kukulcan pyramid was tuned up ins such a way that it imitates the sound of the sacred bird "quetzal" or yes you guess "electricme" : "kuk"
As per famous british musician researcher the frequencies were very difficult to exactly reproduced and with those materials again only a structure of that precise volume would create such an effect at the front stairs by claping with your hands ...Same for the "ball game" court which enhances a whisper from the distant opposite side, obviously they knew about the use of high frequencies, the other interesting effect of sound some other researcher and legends talk about is about this chamber I believe in The Yucatan Penynsula werer the guy in question was taken by a guide in the company of others believing in this effects , why? to help him sing a mantra of sorts!! It is been said that the chamber would then emit ligth from its walls ... Piezoelctric luminiscent effect due to high frequency stimulation?? I forgot where to find that link to the story but I'm sure its a matter of investing time and effort to find it again
Cheers
YouTube - Singing Pyramid of Kukulkan
QuoteI forgot where to find that link
That would be interesting. If you dont delete your browser history on a regular basis you may be able to find the link there.
Hello All
Quite the thread :')
I'm back on Pg 68 and reading and studying (Lots of ref to catch up)
I'm building one of Jims cotton winding sheans and will be with you all soon (Hopefully before the snow flys haha
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=9404.0
Just wan'ted to say hello and tnks for the thread
FrznWtr
@ electricme
I fell down a rabbit hole and landed up here at http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapter3.pdf if you are able to read to the end, you will discover many free energy devices, all because you told all of us readers about what happened to you. ;)
The contents of the above web pdf is worth burning to a CD.
jim
[/quote]
Hi Jim
This Link is at the bottom of my E-m signature.
It is the website whair your chapter 3 came from.
Some of the best info I've run across so I send it with all my e-m's
Theirs lots more and I think it's chapter 12 thats a basic Electronics titorial for those that might need it.
http://www.free-energy-devices.com
Trying to catch up. Studying as fast as I can for the last couple weeks.
FrznWtr
In The Dirt
OK I don't have everything yet but I'm out back diggen.
Coerced my buddy out to help. Hehe
yah we dug a 3' hole about a foot wide.
You say aint didly ha this is the rockest tight set river bed country you gona find. Sides we both over 55 :')
Wall we got out the various picks, hammers, bars, claw, drill augers etc.
I tell ya the fence almost fell over with all we had out there.
Carbon
I have 2" x 24" rods 2ea.
1/2 x 2 x 15" slats 20ea.
3/4 square x 8" 16ea.
So the plan is to dig 3 holes and put one each of these in the hole separated by about a foot
2" to west
slat to east 3/4 to north
all pieces to bottom of hole with #6 copper wire bolted on - sticking up to surface. I used solderable Lugs for bolt-hole
Carbon is very easy to drill. I felt this would be the easiest way to make connections
I have the 20 Magnesium 1" x 1' rods on order but haven't received them yet.
I have 1/2" gal-vie pipe to cut to 1' lengths (Maby 2' and 3' also)
that I will place at 60-65' intervals to a max of my lot of about 210'
The N-S meridian is about 20 degrees off my fence line or I wouldn't have quite that much.
I am interested to see if I can garner a relation ship as to current Size depth distance surface area -Parallel series etc. all
I was unable to find any data other then the threads as to this info and am determined to try making a table for future reference.
I also have 8' 5/8 copper coated grounding rods I will be using and perhaps sheeting also we will see.
First pic is of the connector to #6 ground wire about 4' away from 1st hole
Second is a pic of the elements in the 1st hole
Third pic is of elaments
(The "T" is made up because I only have 2 of the big rods. Same length and aprox surface area. It will be in the middle hole.)
Second hole 1/2 way there and 3rd is plotted
1st hole is filled in with elements in place (Roger talked me into putting a 4th 3/4 sq x 8" high in the hole on the south side so we can see if depth has any effect. I'd say the bottom of it is at 1' deep)
FrznWtr
PS I've read to Pg 111
@ frozenwater,
Wow, thats a BIG hole you got there, bet you were outa puf by the time you got all the dirt out, so you are up to page 111, you got a few more to readup, we got a term we all coined a couple of years back on the JT thread called "playing catch up" :D
Nice photos, if you want the good oil on the correct placement of magnesium, copper or carbon rods, Bill (Pirate88179) is the bloke who is the efundi on all knowledge on this topic, I reccomend him.
But you will need to place your rods in a North South arrangement to get the best results.
I read where you mentioned about drilling a hole through the carbon rod, to connect your wires to it, well, well, well, now why didn't I think of that, so simple but it should work.
I am constantly amased at the new ways people come up with to over come a problem.
jim
QuoteBut you will need to place your rods in a North South arrangement to get the best results.
One of the problems he will have given the area. My hat is off to him and cant wait for some data.
From what Ive read on some scientific research,filament type carbon which is lined up in one direction has a better flow.
Electricme you are a man of many talents. Anxious to see how your cotton machine goes.
found this kinda interesting about magnesium anodes
Alloy Compositions Grade “A†Grade “B†Grade “Câ€
Element % % %
Aluminum 5.3 - 6.7 5.3 - 6.7 5.0 - 7.0
Zinc 2.5 - 3.5 2.5 - 3.5 2.0 - 4.0
Manganese (Min) 0.15 0.15 0.10
Impurities
Iron (Max.) 0.003 0.003 0.003
Nickel (Max.) 0.002 0.003 0.003
Copper (Max.) 0.02 0.05 0.10
Silicon (Max.) 0.10 0.30 0.30
Other (Max.) 0.30 0.30 0.30
Magnesium Balance Balance Balance
Typical Electrochemical Properties
Amps/Hrs./Lb. 500-540
Efficiency 50-54%
Closed Circuit Potential -1.45 to -1.55v
(Copper/Copper Sulfate)
Open Circuit Potential -1.50 to -1.60v
(Copper/Copper Sulfate)
Cotton Bag
20 Ga. Perforated
Galvanized Steel Core
Backfill Lead Wire
" Packaged Anodes are prepack in either bags or cardboard
cartons in low resistivity, quick wetting, prepared backfill
consisting of 75% hydratred gypsum,
20% bentonite,
and 5% sodium sulphate. "
Connecting Wire: Standard
10 feet of solid or stranded #12 AWG Copper Lead Wire/THWN/THNN.
Might have to try this as backfill for both pos and neg?????????
up to Pg 145 - been Ill and recovering now (Crawling Crud) but still the tickle in the back of my thought is keeping me in the house.
Reading the posts isn't what takes time its all the other references to study. Youall are a prolific source haha.
Like reading a novel - Can't weight for the next dewelopmnt.
FrznWtr
@IotaYodi
Quote from: IotaYodi on August 01, 2010, 08:38:27 AM
Electricme you are a man of many talents. Anxious to see how your cotton machine goes.
Thankyou 8), The cotton machine is out in the elements, and I am having temps in the lows of -0 to 5 overnight, into the 17 - 20 range during the days so I prefer to be indoors lol.
Work will progress when spring arrives in my neck of the woods.
I'm going on a little overseas trip shortly, will tell you all about the tropics ;D when I return next month :D :D :D
FrosenWaterLabs, get well, you not alowed to kark it on us.
jim
Thnks for your concern Jim I'm on the mend but now that my sore throat is better I got this terrible dry hack. (Crawling Crud for sure)
Hi All
Well got into the back yard and planted some Mg rods on the N-S meridian
every 10' out to 65' (First is 5' from carbon's and is a double 3" apart E-W
(used grinder brush on one Mg rod to remove oxidized surface 2nd is unbrushed)
used a 1" x 5' digging rod to poke holes 1' deep, then banged in the 1" x 1' Mg
Rigged a roll of 16 gage multi strand with alligator clips each end.
Took a cheep analog and a midrange digital out with me.
So wouldn't you know it, RAIN.
Well a few quick readings.
1st hole 3' deep to North has 4 carbon rods in it. All separated by 1' center fill.
A= 2" diameter x 2' to west at bottom of hole.
B= 3/4" Squair x 8" to north at bottom of hole.
C= 1/2" x 2" x 15" to east at bottom of hole.
D= 3/4" Squair x 8" to south at top of hole, Bottom of rod aprox. 1'
E= an 8' x 5/8" Ground rod driven flush 3' to west of 1st hole. (Lots of work this one)
(Out of N-S alignment till another Mg can be set)
Neg Element = 1" Diameter x 1' Mg Flush in ground 5' south of 1st hole
A to Uncleaned = 1.619V
A to cleaned = 1.214V (Surprising will redo test soon. Pulled Mg to check also)
Used Uncleaned Mg rod for rest of Measurements
B (Deep) = 1.610
C = 1.610
D (Shallow) = 1.397
E = 1.455V
A to 60' away Mg = 1.775V
No Amp readings. Socks are wet and back is damp. Still raining and its getting dark.
My Declination is 19 Degrees West - alined 360 with compass North,
then sighted to 341 degrees.
My Inclination is 74 Degrees
So bottom of 1' Neg electrode to bottom of 3' carbon - 5' apart would require about a 20' hole for the carbon elements.
I believe
(Please correct me if you believe me wrong here)
and I have to say, it's not going to happen. Haha
But it dose appear the 3/4 sq. elements B & D show that deeper is better.
I do intend to try an Mg at 1' that should give me the proper inclination. We will see.
A & B are real close considering .09V difference and Prob. about 10 to 1 Surface area difference.
May Be cutting those 2 x 1/2 x 15" down the length into 1"x 1/2" BUT still have to do Amperage readings.
5' between A & Neg = 1.619 and 60' between = 1.775
is an .156V difference 2/10ths of a volt? Not that much for 60' of wire but then over all power may be better????? Closser may be better???????
Need to gang wire Carbons and a set of Mg's also. If not better need to remove excess elements from each hole but that would be after testing is complete.
If anyone has any Ideas about test to do, Please step up and let me know.
Lots to do though before I move on to the NBS Coil.
Lookin for clear sky
This is way fun.
FrznWtr
Oh up to Pg 161 and now theres Pirates other thread to look into ::)
@Jim
By the way Jim. At the tip, watch for old electric hot water heaters.
There is a Magnesium anode in um with a 1" (27mm) fitting to screw it into the tank. Looks like a blank plug. may be of various lengths ie 10" (270mm) to 36" (972mm) depending on size of heater. Usually about 3/4" (21mm) diameter. Over here anyway. (Can be very dificult to remove as corrodedon old tanks - I sugest a heavy Boxend 6-point wrench) Good Luck.
Oh for carbon the Air Arc rods are an easy source but need copper coating stripped off (Leave 1/2" of the flat end to solder to - Good rosen core, hi silver content electronics type solder)
Frozenwaterlab:
Nice work.
You dip angle for your area is what you use to figure the depth of your electrodes not the declination or inclination I believe. And, using trig which I suck at, you can manipulate that depth by the spacing of the electrodes. It has been almost 3 years since I did mine so I don't really recall but I do remember that moving my rods further apart made the correct angle doable....or maybe it was closer, but anyway, the distance figures into the equation. You make a right triangle and since you know the 90 degree angle and the length of one side (distance) you can calculate the other angle to see if it matches the dip angle for your area.
Others here can tell you how to do it better with the math because I am sure you can do it all on paper before planting.
I would be very interested to see some power readings from your experiments. Don't be alarmed if the meter sort of counts down from when you first apply it. Mine has always done that and I think it is because the meter (on mA setting) is kind of like a direct short to your system. Once you remove the probes and then reapply them, it should go back up to the original value and then begin counting down again.
My last readings quite a while ago were in the 19 ma area but, with my 5 pound block of magnesium encased in that bag of stuff (Like what you had posted earlier) should be giving me over 1 amp according to the tank grounding instructions that came with it. I probably need much larger carbon area to do this.
Best of luck and keep us posted.
Bill
@ everyone reading who also keeps an eye out on Chemtrails.
A new way or method has been found by the baddies, to spray us all with.
Take a look at this here http://fliiby.com/file/889437/j23yx7egzu.html
I found this video on you tube about a half hour ago, in my view, it ranks in the top 10 along with the mechanics letter.
@Frozenwaterlabs
I can see you have been very industrious and busy, and got rained on toooo, lol, I can smell a cartoon comeing on he he. Seriously though, well done, listen to Bill, he does know a lot more than just about anyone about rod placements and how to get the best results.
I find your experiment very interresting
Have you been able to keep a flowing record of your results?
jim
Some words about the serial problem.
If you take a pair of electrodes, place come cloth between them and bury them, you get some voltage. If you take another pair of electrodes and bury them about 2 meters from the firt pair and connect these two pairs in series, you get near two times bigger voltage.
If you bury a pair pf electrodes say 1m apart and then take another pair to see, how far apart you must bury them to get two times bigger voltage, you discover, that with distance the voltage slowly raises. But the distance between these two pairs must be proportional the distance between electrodes in a way as in the first experiment. Its about 0.5cm to 2m. So you see that with electrodes far apart serial connection gets impractical - the distance must be very big.
K
Lasersaber showed us a working Stubblefield coil. I think now is right time to attach a transistor and make the coil oscilate. As i see, the two primaries are like a joule thief, in this case also self-powered. The thing is to make it oscilate and get power in secondary.
Of course, power is low by now. So we need another genius who, like Lasersaber, puts together the right things and shows clear, effective result. Maybe its time to spread this idea wider? How about making coils with some electronics, who gives out stable 12VDC, make it nice, robust and easy to use, with some light included and sell it worldwide? I am ready do buy some! Our goal manufacturing and selling a usable coil is not to make big business, but to collect opinions. We must seek a genius. We must seek a smoked coil - one who produced real amps in some way. As i see at this point there is no physically corect way to get more amps from our coil, so we must wait for a miracle, and by manufacturing hobby power sporces we allow this miracle to come faster.
I enjoy this work!
K
One more fact about series.
I did make a earth battery from aluminium and copper foils. Both were 210mm x 3m. I rolled them in a roll with cloth between the foils. I made four pieces of them and buried one in one hole and three together in another hole. I connected them all in series and got more than 2V DC and .6mA. So, if the electrods are not exposed to outside, they work in series very well.
Place is relevant even with galvanic operation. There are grounds, who do not keep moisture. You can add water, but it goes away fast.
You must bury deep enough. In winter, when earth freezes, volts and amps drop by half and more...
It is good to have a bunch of cheap analog multimeters. First - they do not need batteries to run. Second - you set one to volts, another to miliamps and can easy see how your system operates. Good choice for monitoring output for a long time.
K
Quote from: Pirate88179 on August 08, 2010, 01:48:48 PM
Frozenwaterlab:
Nice work.
You dip angle for your area is what you use to figure the depth of your electrodes not the declination or inclination I believe.
Hi Bill
Have enjoyed learning by watching you and Jeanna and Rob Et All
I think its just that you havent looked at the site for a bit.
This is my read from the NOAA site for South-Central Alaska
8/8/2010
Lat: 61° 34' 49''
Lon: - 149° 29' 18''
Elev: 0.00 m
Declination
+ East - West 19° 6'
This means if I'm looking at the Mag North (Aprox over the great lakes)
I must look to the left 19° to look at the Geo Pole
Inclination
+ Down - Up 74° 31'
This one is much more difficult. I believe has to do with how the field lines come out of the ground. I admit my knowledge is sketchy in this area.
(Any of you seen Howard Johnson's work? He plotted the field lines of a Magnet. NOT Like the metal fillings - They are each a magnet themselves. Magnets field isent as a Circle it's a figure eight. There is a BLOTCH WALL in the middle and both the North field and the South field enter it. In fact both N & S flux lines come out of and enter both ends.
Check out Beardens sight and order BOTH of Mr Johnson's CD's
He's the inventor of Spintronics.
Anyway, if on the equator level placement and as one progresses towards the pole the northern electrode must go deeper until you stand on the pole itself where one is over the other.
Say where's the GEO Guy anyway?
Quote
And, using trig which I suck at, you can manipulate that depth by the spacing of the electrodes.
You are right - Must be a math formula for it.
I just hold one of those half circles upside down.
0 to right North
180 to left South
90 at bottom - Then shift 16 degrees to the right towards 0 (Aint much)
Mg 1
1
1 Carbon
Without the formula I'm taking a stab at 1' seperation for 3' deep
Now for the 8' Grounding rod I'm guessin 2'6" to 3' seperation will give best reading
If I just wack 3-4-5 in a row every 6" and take the best should let us know, Right?
Quote
I would be very interested to see some power readings from your experiments. Don't be alarmed if the meter sort of counts down from when you first apply it. Mine has always done that and I think it is because the meter (on mA setting) is kind of like a direct short to your system. Once you remove the probes and then reapply them, it should go back up to the original value and then begin counting down again.
Ya I tried in the rain but couldn't get anything meaningful.
You Guessed it FUSE Will get replacement
Quote
My last readings quite a while ago were in the 19 ma area but, with my 5 pound block of magnesium encased in that bag of stuff (Like what you had posted earlier) should be giving me over 1 amp according to the tank grounding instructions that came with it. I probably need much larger carbon area to do this.
I have one of them from a ship hull - I'll go take a pic
this thing weighs 16 lbs but there is a 1/4" x 3" x 6" iron plate in the middle
I need to put togeather that mix for myself (Got Cats - more to the mix WHAT :D)
improves ground contact - I'm on it.
I've Wound my first JT
I have some various size LED's and have wound a JT 2.5"dia 1/2" thick
Sec is 3 layers about 100 turns ea. of 26 gage.
2 ea. - Pri wound on top 1-10 winds 2nd-20 winds, both 22 gage.
Will be playing with that soon.
I want to build a Pulse Motor like Lidmotor has.
Read switch firing NEO rotor on Magnetic bearings against a coil hooked to EB
Like done with the NS Coil
Looks to be a good experimental LOAD.
Rev Counter should give an idea of power available etc
Quote
Best of luck and keep us posted.
Bill
Tnks Bill and You Bet. I'm building one of jims Cotton winding sheans
Wana crank out the NS Coils (Got two 3'x1" old Iron Bolts)
But yaknow NS said his bolts would become saturated with the Mag field and need replacing.
I wana try different corres But rep Pattent first!!!!
Some one was talking about switching both ends of the primary at sequential times.
That should scramble the remenant magnatisum???
MOre reading. Pg 161 now when I get home tomorrow from the Dr.
Quote electricme
@ everyone reading who also keeps an eye out on Chemtrails.
A new way or method has been found by the baddies, to spray us all with.
@ Jim
Hay Known about this for long time
Ck this http://www.cheniere.org/clouds/index.html
Got Pics somewhere on my computer of the tanks in the aircraft belly
and pics of the nozzles etc. I'll look for them and Personal E-m them to you if I find them.
Bizzare aint it.
Don't squack too loud dangerious aint nothin can be done I know of.
I sure aint takin there shots though.
Quote
I find your experiment very interresting
Have you been able to keep a flowing record of your results?
Jim This is the beginning of my actual experimentation. In the EB area.
I have been studying and learning for 4-5 years now.
Started when told I couldn't make enough HHO to be worth while.
Bull out and out. Made a cheep setup that paid for itself in 1 summer of fuel savings.
Did a little Joe Cell - some Hull Effect - Made a 700kV Vandegraff etc etc
FUN STUFF (My Wife is in Thailand so I have to keep myself busy.)
Wana help ;') Were in trouble and most don't know it. We need this info for later I think.
I have a Badini wheel I want to try to run with the NS Coil if possable. Thats my long term goal.
Wee hours commin on fast - Gotta up early
FrznWtr
@knabe
Welcome to the stubblefield coil forum, and it's nice to have you along here. ;)
On the topic of series electrodes in the earth, been there and done that,
I had 63 by 7 inch (each tube 1/2" diameter) copper tubes filled with dirt with a 3 inch zinc nail driven into the center of the dirt in each tube.
I forget how much voltage I got out of it, from memory, somewhere around 66 volts DC in milliamps, I ended up connecting the whole array in series parallel, it was enough to run a single white LED very brightly for around a year. (I burnt out a LED)
I had to keep topping up the dirt with water, sometimes 4 times a day in the middle of summer.
To get this cell array to work, I had to wrap insulating tape aroiund the outside of each cell, and seal off the bottom else the electricity seemed to leak out of the bottom of the cell interacting with all the other cells.
Beleive me, it does work, but you would need square meters of materials in each cell to get grunt outa your earth battery array, and I couldn't afford it.
Actually Bill (Pirate88179) has had better energy out of his 2 carbon and Magnesium electrode setup.
jim
Quote from: knabe on August 09, 2010, 03:11:33 AM
One more fact about series.
I did make a earth battery from aluminium and copper foils. Both were 210mm x 3m. I rolled them in a roll with cloth between the foils. I made four pieces of them and buried one in one hole and three together in another hole. I connected them all in series and got more than 2V DC and .6mA. So, if the electrods are not exposed to outside, they work in series very well.
Place is relevant even with galvanic operation. There are grounds, who do not keep moisture. You can add water, but it goes away fast.
You must bury deep enough. In winter, when earth freezes, volts and amps drop by half and more...
It is good to have a bunch of cheap analog multimeters. First - they do not need batteries to run. Second - you set one to volts, another to miliamps and can easy see how your system operates. Good choice for monitoring output for a long time.
K
All good info Tnks Will try replication of info. Eventually when enough reps we can say:
Put this their and so far apart and do this that etc.
I was looking for that info for some time and it was not forthcoming. Experimentation.
Many minds focused will illuminate the answer. OPEN Source.
Go back to the time this thread started and consider what we have now. It will get better and better.
FrznWtr
Electricme
I wonder, how much power you thing can come out from a battery like the one you unhearted at that farm? , are you planning to make bigger ones in series parallel ? Have you found more info in regards to it?? I hope you can tell us before going on your vacation, other than that enjoy it and recharge that brain !! I'm sure you will come back full of inspiration anyway.
Hey everyone, i have followed the thread with intrest since last year and found there is a company working on sending electricity wirelessly using magnetic resonance frequencysimilar to what the earth produces naturally. Something to think about as you all experiment. The company is wii tricity and here is the wiki page address.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WiTricity
@kukulcangod
The you could get more power out of the same earth cell array by building it using larger copper pipes and zinc nails, but like all things, bigger means more expence.
The copper is always the positive and the zinc is the negative.
I also made a earth cell array out of aluminium pipe and copper pipe.
The copper pipe was the central electrode, and the aluminium larger pipe is the negative electrode, I simply insulated these using plastic shopping bags :D but it worked, the copper is still the positive, but the output is reversed to a copper zinc array.
I was able to connect this set up in series with the other dissimilar cells and it worked OK.
Remember, this is a galvanic reaction, it dosent seem to get any energy from the ground.
If you could make each cell bigger, then you will get more power (not voltage) out of it.
jim
congratulations to the many experimenters here who have successfully replicated the stubblefield self generating induction coil. after reading the previous 242 pages of posts it seems to me that many of the experimenters dont believe that they have been successful and continue to try to get large amounts of electrical pow dorectly from the coil. in my thinking of this matter that is a waste of both time and genius. the success of this device is the ability to create a magnetic field with no input of power. this alone can be used to provide HUGE amounts of usable power. one thing that might help experimenters is the important advice of mr bedini. in one of his posts he recommended the study of the model T ignition coil. the specification chart on this coil indicates that the ratio of the number of turns on the secondary to that of the primary is a whopping 78 to 1. how does this comapare to the coils built by the experimenters here? another of his "hints" was to not worry about measuring voltage and amperage, and in this he is absolutely correct because the real power of this device is its ability to create a magnetic field with no electrical input from a conventional battery or generator. A TRULY FUELLESS MAGNETIC FIELD GENERATOR. try this "thought experiment": imagine how tesla's design of his first and higly succesful brushless AC motor could be adapted to use magnetic fields created by the stubblefield cell !!!!!!! light bulbs appearing over anyone's head yet? also cangrats to lasersaber on the nice videos and his perserverance in attempt at at an identical replication of the device in the patent. more thoughts to come later
@almon,
Firstly, thankyou for your 1st post, and welcome.
You are to be commended for reading through the entire thread, well done :D
Yes, what you have written is very positave for all of us who have been studying the Stubblefield Cell, and your comparison between the Stubblefield Cell and the ignition coil is almost spot on. The differences are the methods of powering the separate coils themselves, and Lasersaber has jemmied the door open for everyone with his successful replications, but we have a little more to do though.
The ignition coil needs a 12 volt battery supply to create the magnetic field in the primary winding, which when it collapses, creates a high pulse of energy which is converted to a very high voltage by the secondary coil, which has huge number of turns of very thin copper wire. The function of this coil which was designed by Nicol Tesla which I believe is a MODIFICATION of Nathan Stubblefields original stubblefield cell.
The Stubblefield coil on the other hand creates its own magnetic field via the pulsing action formed by the dissimilar metals in the primary windings, the collapse of the magnetic field would then produce a voltage, be it much lower than the ignition coil, and people must start to forget about putting many thousands of turns on the secondary of the stubblefield coil, or thinking only high voltage is the answer when it is not.
This coil is designed for a completly different purpose, of low cycles and low voltage but a higher amperage.
To get lower voltage you wind in the "hundreds only of turns, but you must use a much thicker wire, as the thicker wire carries the grunt, Amps etc.
If anyone wants to know what I am trying to explain, just go and get yourself a simple cheep transformer or a wall plug pack, then take it apart, and looko at the transformer itself. (it won't bite)
Take a multimeter and put it on ohms, then take some readings of the Primary and secondary windings.
Look at the wire windings, the thicker wire is the secondary, OK enough waffling on.
So how does the stubblefield coil work? Well the 2 dissimilar metal wires when wet, begin to form a connection between them, (electrolysis) this begins to create a magnetic within the iron windings and the iron bolt, at some stage the wetness becomes too much, and the iron and copper cannot sustain the electrical energy, so the coil sees a semi short circuit, so the energy between the dissimilar metals shuts off, in turn the electro magnet which had formed, collapses, which creates the high EMP which is picked up by the secondary windings.
Once the cycle has ended, there is nothing to prevent another cycle from starting again, and again.
This would explain why Lasersabers coil gets working and falls in output, the coil is wet to begin with, it starts to dry out and at some stage it has selftuned itself for optimum output, as it dries out further, it begins to fall in output, until more moisture is applied to the coil.
BTW, Bill (Pirate88179) is dealling with the passing of his constant companion of many years, of his cat Puss last week, and I would like to say I'm with you Bill, been there and done that myself a little while ago, know what you are going through, so take care mate.
I was very honoured to meet Puss via skype last January, thankyou Bill.
jim
thanks for the nice welcome. as i said in my first post, the creation of a fuelless magnetic field seems to be the strongest asset of this device. i asked myself, why did tesla and others who knew of this not pursue its development? the only answer i could think of was that the writing was already on the wall in regard to this type of development: THOU SHALL NOT. just like mr bedini said in one of his posts, whenever he started being successful with it the "thought police" advised him not to think too much and he wisely agreed. but back to the use of this magnetic field. another "thought experiment". i will refer to lasersaber's videos since all are familiar with them and a picture is worth x-number of words. imagine a setup like lasersaber's. imagine scaling it up. not the coil, as it already works fine. imagine his little magnetic motor being replaced by a large round table top with 120 magnets spaced 3 degress apart or 180 magnets spaced 2 degrees apart. probably several coils would be required, but with this large flywheel storing lots of energy when in motion, there would be room for many more coils around it. for higer speeds a beld and pully system could be attached, or the table top could be attached to an automotive wheel, driving the differential in reverse of the way it is driven by the cars engine. either way a series of 100 amp truck alternators could easily be driven by it with only a regular dc-ac converter needed for 110volt ac. perfect for use at a camp or other remote site. "free" energy is here now.
Hi almon,
Welcome to the group of people who experiment with the stubblefield generator.
I still have a few rows to finish on my lasersaber replica.
I made the mistake to make the wire 19awg, and it is uncomfortable for me to wind.
Lidmotor's uses 24 gauge steel and he told me this was easier to wind, and we can see by his videos that it works well.
I have 9 more cores, and perhaps I will make a thinner wired version after I sort out the motor part.
Please try your ideas and share the results of your tests with us.
thank you,
jeanna
Hi all, :(
I just want to share something with you all, totally unrelated to free energy which has had a huge impact on me in the last 24 hours and is the topic of the day and will be for weeks to come in our town.
I live in a little town of about 23 houses with about 50 people, we all know each other very well, if someone sneezes, we all know it.
Anyway yesterday my neighbour over the road went and hung himself.
So who do you think found him? his wife did, her terrible screams brought rapid help, by the time they cut him down, it was too late.
For years, Les would walk our streets with his little dog, in the late afternoon in the cool of the day, almost every day, stopping in to speak to anyone, one of the friendliest people I knew and almost fearless of man or beast, he was on the wagon (given up the grog) and we all thought the world of him and his family.
I went and visited his wife, and family have arrived to support her, but the question we are asking, why?
I appears he worked all his life, he was in his mid 60s, recently retrenched and couldn't find a job, it's so sad, the emotional wreckage he has left behind has to be experienced to believe.
So if there is anyone reading this, thinking of doing the same, then think again, because he has now passed his husband duties onto his wife to do. Mowing the lawn, working out the bills, living on her own for the rest of her life, putting the garbage bin out on the footpath, no one to share the long nights with and no one to talk to.
Now she is in shock, terrified, bewildered, upset, in a trance and at a loss for words, and the question she asks herself the most is WHY???????
No one saw this coming, not even me.
So if you the reader needs help, then make an effort to find someone you can trust and confide in, don't take the selfish way out and leave wreckage for others to pick up the pieces.
jim
I have been through this a few times with friends and one family member in his 30s. Mental anguish is a hard thing to recognize in a person who is covering it up. I think a lot of times it may be "Is this all there is". Which of course there is.
My sympathies to you and his. Suicides can be hard to deal with.
Quote from: electricme on August 17, 2010, 05:31:38 AM
No one saw this coming, not even me.
So if you the reader needs help, then make an effort to find someone you can trust and confide in, don't take the selfish way out and leave wreckage for others to pick up the pieces.
jim
I've lost relatives to cancer in the past, so I can sympathise with your bereavement. My condolences, jim (electricme).
--Lee
I moved away from a whole countrie's finanantial crisis after seeing my father losing everything he had worked for, but still I wouldn't dare to say that I understand such pain of loss, and I've had my share as well with a friend doing the same. I do hate times of financial distress like this, I did see it coming and that's why one of my many reasons for doing research is about to avoid this type of misery for the people, I'm taking care of my parents at a distance, I just know how desperate one might become, and I don't wish it even to my worst enemy. My father in law recently went throug a job loss at the same age, only his military background helped him again, so now he can retire in a short while, but it was really really hard, we must rebuild this country somehow, I feel good for I feel I'm doing something to help in other areas even if far away from home. At a certain age it becomes really difficult due to health problems to continue it is a grim future but we must actively search for solutions and never, never give up.
My best regards to all.
jim
about 9 years ago i used to hang out with a man that just turned 60 yrs old.. i used to help him fix stuff and chores..
well one evening i went to his house we was talking he said quess what. i started drinking ? i said really.. why??
he said cause i won't be able to retire.. i said why is that..!!
he said cause i will be dead.. ( dr. said 6months or less ) cancer real bad..
talking was sadly slow from there. the next day i took me a quart of shine with me to drink with him..
we were talking and drinking.. .. he asked how do you ride dirt bikes and atv's as crazy as you do.. anytime you could kill yourself..
i said yeah i need to quit riding so stupid like.. he asked again what goes thru your head.. i told him i got nothing to live for so i have nothing to look forward to.. he laughed.. two days later he O.D. on morphine
??? :'(
so i helped his wife do alot of chores for months after his death..
me and her talked alot about everthing under the sun..
she said to me one day .. i have seen you with the worse of luck but you still smile.. i wish i was like you she said.. i told her i bet you a hunderd dollars you have lived alot cleaner life than me.. she told me that when your young you lose everything you just rebuild.. but when your old and lose it you want to be done with it..
she asked when you have a bad day and i ask you how you are doing you just tell me that you are living the dream..
how is that.. is it fake.. i said no .. my moto is (expect the worse and never be disappointed) ..
she asked .. was it my husbands death give you that line of thought.. i said no that i have had 48 close friends and family die on me and 27 of them died in front of me.. ( i was 22 yrs old at the time) and she said . and your living the dream.. huh.. she said i wish i was more like you even more now.. i laughed and said i have done alot of wrong in my life so i know were i am going and i don't give a f**k..
and told her i knew where she was going and she would see him there.. i have alot of tears thinking of this.. ..
because she took her life the same way he did.. a three days later..
i still feel like i killed them for telling them my outlook of the world .. so at one time i asked my self ''WHY'' so much.. i just about took my own life .. but i am stronger than that.. i have something to die for now..
sorry i am sorry to hear about your friend..
robbie
@ Everyone,
My post about old Les topping himself, sure has had a reaction from all quarters, and I do feel for everyone who has posted, and PMed me, it is life, but it came real close to home for me, and I have shead a few tears. All Les had to do was to talk to me or any of the others in this town, he would have been given good advice.
I know for sure if old Les came back from the dead, his wife would be the first in line to welcome him back then give him a knuckle sandwich.
Everyone here has their close shaves and has lost loved ones, in one maner or other, we never want to hear of anyone taking their own life, ever. Life is far too precious to cast it away without a thought for those around you.
We on this forum have a task to do, we have a job here and we need to finish the work and get a working Nathan Stubblefield Coil up and running.
That means EVERYONE IS NEEDED, everybody, no ones exempt, not even myself, but my hand is now forced and I need to mention that I will be away from the forum for three weeks, starting in about a week.
Six months ago my brother shelled out and bought me a return plane ticket to go and visit him, so I have been quietly puttting together a holiday, not saying where I'm going, cause it is sooooo good you'l all wanna pack your swimmers and jump in my suitcase to hitch a free ride ha ha.
Where I'm off to is a tropical island, the only way to get there is by water taxi, a 60 mile trip in an open boat, they have earthquakes, there is black sandy beach, an active volcaino, power only avaliable for a few hours of the day, the phone line is intermittant, email is dreadful, they measure the rainful in feet but it is quiet and I'll be doing a lot of thinking.
I used to work in this country, now my visa states as a visitor, I must not work, just relax and doo nothing. If you carn't bear the suspence, Bill knows where I'm off to. ;D
Kooler, I'll be in touch.
jim
Oh Jim,
It sounds wonderful.(Pick up some of that black sand!)
I do my best to contrive those circumstances you will be enjoying.
Thanks for sharing it, and have a great vacation.
jeanna
Hello Everyone,
I first built a small Stubby coil about 2 years ago. In that time, many experiments have been performed, some interesting, most not. The coil itself is NOT the power generator, but the conduit. It is also necessary to understand how the different types of energy flows and what drives it.
Blessings,
Rip
Hi to all again
I need your help, does anyone knows how to get acrylic machined parts to make the coil? I tried emachine shop, and others but they only accept large orders and even the small are over 300 dollars an no one to talk about it! like emachine shop, I designed the thing just like lasersaber's but I just couldn't get a straight answer from this people, I already have my magnets different types of cores etc my difficult to get cotton wire, I hope someone knows of a reliable source that can ship over this parts.
Cheers
Quote from: kukulcangod on August 19, 2010, 02:19:26 PM
Hi to all again
I need your help, does anyone knows how to get acrylic machined parts to make the coil? I tried emachine shop, and others but they only accept large orders and even the small are over 300 dollars an no one to talk about it! like emachine shop, I designed the thing just like lasersaber's but I just couldn't get a straight answer from this people, I already have my magnets different types of cores etc my difficult to get cotton wire, I hope someone knows of a reliable source that can ship over this parts.
Cheers
Hi K--god,
I had great luck with the wires-uk place.
The regular delivery is royal mail-signed, so you need to be there, and it was a reasonable price. The air shipment was very expensive, and I do not think it is necessary, because the post got it here in less than 1 week.
Originally we all wrapped ours by hand with cotton cloth...tedious but it worked. I suggest a very thin cotton NOT t-shirt because it is too thick and moves stretches irregularly.
I have not finished winding mine or I could show it working, but I used a wooden disc. It happens to be a set of discs designed to hold the 2 ends of a clothes rod in a closet. It is hardwood and works well. I was able to drill all the holes I needed to.
So, it is probably a lot easier for you to get wooden discs for the ends. The only disadvantage I can see is that you cannot see inside it.
good luck,
jeanna
Thank you Jeanna
I'm considering that option, because the machining for acrylic is too expensive I jsut can't find a reliable source, and the one making a small run ask for my own CNC code say from the open source 3D Blender program, but it is more for amorphous jewelry than precise dimensioned parts. I just that I want to iluminate the thing ala Bedini pulser, Have you guys seen his last comercial design ? to me is undeniable proof that we are dealing with subtle energies not very well known.
Cheers
@All,
Goodbye all, this kid is going on a tropical holiday in a few hours, tooo cold here in Australia, see you all in about three weeks, afta I thaw out a bit. ;)
Where I'm going it has NO 24hr power, No broadband, hardly any phone access only intermittant dialup.
It's hot, volcanic, has gourias (earthquakes) clean clear warm water, torrential rain, black sandy beaches, even got to go by open water taxi (3hour trip) as well as on two different planes, should be great. ;D
But it's got great tropical food, yum!
Hooroo
jim
I dont know if this has been posted already here, but, because it relates to free energy batteries I thought that it could be of help to you.
Free energy from earth plans
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=436
Jesus
Quote from: nievesoliveras on August 25, 2010, 09:04:34 AM
I dont know if this has been posted already here, but, because it relates to free energy batteries I thought that it could be of help to you.
Free energy from earth plans
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=436
Jesus
Very useful information, thank you for posting it.
It is always very difficult to find something in the lengthy threads, so reposting good information is helpful.
Greetings, Conrad
Quote from: electricme on August 25, 2010, 08:55:10 AM
@All,
Goodbye all, this kid is going on a tropical holiday in a few hours, tooo cold here in Australia, see you all in about three weeks, afta I thaw out a bit. ;)
Where I'm going it has NO 24hr power, No broadband, hardly any phone access only intermittant dialup.
It's hot, volcanic, has gourias (earthquakes) clean clear warm water, torrential rain, black sandy beaches, even got to go by open water taxi (3hour trip) as well as on two different planes, should be great. ;D
But it's got great tropical food, yum!
Hooroo
jim
Jim:
Have a good and safe trip. Enjoy those tropical beaches and, if you get a chance, bring back some of that black sand to play around with.
Be safe my friend.
Bill
@electricme
With respect to your posted Reply #3630,
Very well put. Take it easy and return to experimentation work after your island vacation.
--Lee
One down... three to go.
I just finally finished the primary to my newest NS coil.
It has no shorts.
It has 5.5 ohm on the copper wire and
9 ohm on the iron wire.
The voltage before any water was 0.24v and after spray-wetting was
0.72v.
The compass moves very powerfully when it is within 4 inches of the core but I am not seeing much of a swing when I pulse the outer iron to inner copper wires.
Step 2 is to get a rotor that will work.
I took a cd player apart and mounted some magnets on a cd.
I think it is not slippery enough.
The local computer fixer told me he might have a HD rotor he could let me have. He wanted to empty the data, he said??
Oh yeah, I forgot, there are people who would take that stuff and do bad things with it!!
Step 3 will be to get the reed switch in the right position.
At least this hard part is over.
Now, fir the frustrating part.
;D,
jeanna
edit
I found a way to hold my compass steady and I am getting a 5 degree swing.
It is slow but repeatable.
Good stuff Jeanna! What type of core and number of winds did you use?
Quote from: IotaYodi on August 26, 2010, 10:45:07 PM
Good stuff Jeanna! What type of core and number of winds did you use?
Thanks,
I used the exact core that lasersaber used... um sargent welch soft iron bar?
and the 24 gauge wire from wires uk
And the steel is 19 awg from the hardware store.
Without any covering, it is just a tad fatter than the copper with cotton.
As for number of turns, I just cannot count. ;D so I think there are 8 rows and
the final row has 65 iron and of course 65 copper turns.
I used a matched pair of wooden discs from a closet rod hanger package. It is hardwood and something from the hardware store.
I drilled a hole in the end and epoxied the bar in place, then drilled 4 small holes for the wires. I did not drill a hole for the reed switch. I need to do that, I think.
I also bought the exact reed switch that lasersaber used.
I used 'flour sack' cotton cloth because it is less thick than T-shirt cloth and not stretchy.
All the info is in his videos that show how-to.
(I want to be sure HE gets the credit for all that good research.)
I will take some credit when I get this one working! 8)
So, thank you,
jeanna
edit
Maybe it is too wet.
I just watched one of lasersaber's early NS demos and he shows a lot of EM effect, but 10mv of voltage
I had 25mv from just the air moisture. Oh well it is too late now. I will let it dry out and watch what happens.
Meantime, I will try to get a rotor that is smooth and fast.
j
Quote from: jeanna on August 26, 2010, 11:27:32 PM
I also bought the exact reed switch that lasersaber used.
jeanna
Jeanna,
may be you still have the ordering info for the reed switches at hand.
Please post the manufacturer, part number (name or code) and where you ordered it. Good reed switches are hard to get. The switching frequency and durability are not so good as one might think.
Greetings, Conrad
conradelektro,
Here's a link to the proximity switch: http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G17100
They seem to work great long term at voltages well under 1 volt. Above that they seem to stop working after a week or so of use.
Jeanna,
Great job on your coil. I can not wait to see it running a motor. It's a lot of fun watching one run nonstop month after month with no external input.
I would really look into building a rotor like I show in my videos. It's very easy to make. Lidmotor has also had great success with this rotor design. Here are the steps to building one.
1 Glue a magnet to the top and bottom of a small lid. It's important that they be in the dead center of the lid.
2 Glue four small magnets on the edge of the lid. It's again important that they be spaced evenly.
3 Let the rotor hang from a needle on the top magnet. You should also place a needle under the rotor but not touching the bottom magnet. It's just there to help the rotor stay stable as it spins.
I hope this info helps.
@ lasersaber:
Wow, that is about as low friction as one can get with readily available items. Nice thinking there.
@ Jeanna:
I too am looking forward to seeing your results. You have worked a long time for this. I hope all goes well.
Bill
Is it this what is meant?
Jesus
;D ;D
OK gang, here it is.
Well, this is the rotor that goes for one minute with the little push.
There is no reed switch yet... just the rotor and primary coil.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iGGF27qnb0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iGGF27qnb0)'
I haven't even checked the video myself.
It came right off the camera... unexpurgated movie!
@Conrad, Yes lasersaber gave the ID for this reed switch.
Electric goldmine has a $10.00 minimum so at .99 each you need to get 11 of them, but this is the same company that sells the toroid so many people use which costs 5/$1, and some other useful things, so look around, but since these reed switches are known to break, I suggest getting extras.
thank you,
jeanna
Looking at @jeanna's clip i could see the @lasersaber clip that on the same page and I apologize for my drawing.
It is very far from what I saw on the clips.
Jesus
No problem, Jesus!
Did you see the very inexpensive materials that went into that?
I did use a wafer thin neo magnet in the center to hold the axle.
The axle is a sewing machine needle which I drilled through a coffee stirrer and hanging from an old thread spool that I hot glued to a scrap of wood.
This is a 'world' axle. It means anyone in the world can make one.
I used a lubricant on the needle to neo connection as lidmotor advised.
I will be working to find the best place for the reed switch today, so there will be more later.
thanks,
jeanna
Quote from: jeanna on August 28, 2010, 01:45:11 PM
No problem, Jesus!
Did you see the very inexpensive materials that went into that?
I did use a wafer thin neo magnet in the center to hold the axle.
The axle is a sewing machine needle which I drilled through a coffee stirrer and hanging from an old thread spool that I hot glued to a scrap of wood.
This is a 'world' axle. It means anyone in the world can make one.
I used a lubricant on the needle to neo connection as lidmotor advised.
I will be working to find the best place for the reed switch today, so there will be more later.
thanks,
jeanna
Lady @jeanna
It seems that I am a very visual person and to understand some things I need a drawing.
Could you make a rough drawing of your "World axle" ?
By the way congratulations lady.
Jesus
Jesus,
I think you had it. Since I didn't understand the thing in the middle, I removed it and here is a mod of your drawing.
jeanna
Quote from: jeanna on August 28, 2010, 05:15:43 PM
Jesus,
I think you had it. Since I didn't understand the thing in the middle, I removed it and here is a mod of your drawing.
jeanna
Thank you lady @jeanna.
That was what I understood with this directions posted on this page.
******************************************************
1 Glue a magnet to the top and bottom of a small lid. It's important that they be in the dead center of the lid.
2 Glue four small magnets on the edge of the lid. It's again important that they be spaced evenly.
3 Let the rotor hang from a needle on the top magnet. You should also place a needle under the rotor but not touching the bottom magnet. It's just there to help the rotor stay stable as it spins.
******************************************************
The thing on the middle its supposed to be the rotor with one needle on top and another on the bottom without touching the magnet.
Then I saw the clips and understood the situation.
By the way I downloaded the five youtube clips explaining how to make the coil/battery.
What I did not see was the explanation of how many layers of the bifilar winding are needed bafore starting the secondary winding.
Jesus
He probably lost count! :D
He did measure the diameter of the finished primary at around 2 inches, if I remember.
The test is the compass.
If you get some swing with the compass when you touch the inner of one metal to the outer of the other then you have a coil that will work.
But, that has not helped me to succeed, yet.
The rotor worked better last night without the reed switch than it does today with it.
grrr.
I added a cap in parallel with the leads for some extra punch. So far it has made the reed switch make noise (so it is working) but the rotor still slows then stops!
I also tried lasersaber's 2 reed switches trick and also with a cap, and still it slows then stops.
I am discouraged, but there must be someplace to place the rotor and switch that works!!
And, I will find it!
.... soon, I hope.
I have struggled with this coil since the winter of 2008. I am not about to give up, but this is very difficult.
jeanna
Lady @jeanna
Thanks!
Seeing that you have been struggling for so long with it, I think that I will wait a little longer to begin mine.
Jesus
@jeanna
I hope you have the right type of reed switch , there is the reed switch normally closed and reed switch normally open .
type 1 Reed switch normally closed , the magnet breaks the connection .
type 2 Reed switch normally open , the magnet make the connection .
Look into the specification sheet ...
You need normal closed one .
I hope this helps .
Mark
@jesus,
I know why you say that, but if you can get started, you might find you can do this.
@MK1
I am following the instructions from lasersaber, because his works. In fact, he has many versions which all work.
Here is why:
The moment the magnet from the rotor passes the reed switch, it will close it and then the battery will run, but then the magnet moves away and the coil stops producing a spike.
This will work with either type of reed switch as long as I am willing to start it.
Please remember, his thread terminally stalled when we could not find a 'n-c' reed switch a couple of years ago. Lasersaber restarted it with his instructions, and I am happy to try them.
@all,
I can get a little pulse going but not enough to take the rotor to the next position. This is starting from a quicker pulse, too.
Lidmotor made a couple of suggestions that I will try, and I will report.
thank you ;),
jeanna
@jeanna
Try adding a few more magnets to shorten the distance between one pulse and the other.
Jesus
Jeanna:
Yes, I agree with Jesus. Your magnets might not be strong enough even though your coil is just fine. Having less space between the mags is a great suggestion in my opinion.
Wishing you the best success.
Bill
Quote from: jeanna on August 29, 2010, 03:21:26 PM
@MK1
I am following the instructions from lasersaber, because his works. In fact, he has many versions which all work.
Here is why:
The moment the magnet from the rotor passes the reed switch, it will close it and then the battery will run, but then the magnet moves away and the coil stops producing a spike.
This will work with either type of reed switch as long as I am willing to start it.
Please remember, his thread terminally stalled when we could not find a 'n-c' reed switch a couple of years ago. Lasersaber restarted it with his instructions, and I am happy to try them.
I hope it will work , my guess is you are using the exact same switch as lasersaber .
Otherwise , look at the switch specs , i know no one had that problem yet but that doesn't mean its not there , even more because unusual problems are usually fall on you ...
I don't think that if it worked for others it will work for me without specific spec , is the most efficient use of time .
All i know is lasersaber puts the wheel on and it starts running , that means the coil is one and get turned off at the switch , also the polarity of the coil and magnets have you tried both ends of the coil ?
Mark
Quote from: Pirate88179 on May 21, 2010, 01:46:42 AM
Mark:
We have other information and I am afraid the photo /drawings are faked.
Bill
Hello All
I'm still reading and am on page 232 so forgive me if this has been discussed already.
Concerning the Double coil Pic
I think it is a recent production
BUT Who ever did this put allot of thought into it.
I have read an opinion that it is from Lasersabers work. Maybe - Maybe Not
Has anyone studied the Great Briton Patent? I see NS stated that the 5&10 or 6&10 may be connected (While the opposing pair is disconnected) to induce the Magnetic pole direction one would like to have in the core.
Has anyone else noticed this? I think it would be wise to search far and wide the world over for any thing he submitted.
This is not explained in the US Patent. May be that some other paperwork may be available that would give more clues.
I havent finished studying the GB Pat yet and am interested if I might see something else.
Oh it dose say something about Mika for between the primary and secondary.
I found Flexible Mika sheets on E-bay - made in Poland (Shipped from their anyway)
http://cgi.ebay.com/FLEXIBLE-MICA-HEAT-RESISTANT-INSULATION-10-SHEETS-/320531418073?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aa1294bd9#ht_591wt_913
Anyway I think serious thought should be given to atempt this replication.
Someone in the know may be giving out info????????????
FrznWtr
What I can see in both Pats
US Pat
The terminals 10 of the copper and iron wires
5 and 6 are disconnected so as to preserve the
character of the wires as the electrodes of the
20 voltaic couple; but the other or remaining
terminals of the wires are brought in contact
through the interposition of any electrical
instrument or device with which they may be
connected to cause the electric currents gen-
25 erated in the coil-body 4 to flow through such instrument or device.
It will also be obvious that by rea-
son of the magnetic inductive properties of
the coil-body 4 the core-piece 1 will neces-
sarily be magnetized while a current is go-
ing through the body 4, so that the battery 8o
may be used as a self-generating electromag-
net, if so desired, it beingg- observed that to se-
cure this. result is simply required connect-
ing the extended terminals of the wires 5 and
6 together after wetting or dampening the 85
coil-body.
As oposed to in Great Britan Pattent
Read the first Paragraf
See .rtfd (Hope it shows)
OK Had to save as PDF
Try this
Whale I'm posting maybe I should put down some thoughts.
If the coil were to produce cold electricty (Who knows at this point)
I know the spark gap WILL - Tesla knew this and I'd bet he mentioned it to Nathan.
Radiant Energy Can Be collected with Bifalar Pancake coils on all sides of the spark gap and run to caps,
both from coils and from output.
Thats the direction I'm going to be headed.
Now weather the read switches or a vibrating set of contacts. This is something I've been pondering.
The read switch is going to run at the speed the wheel turns. Not necessarily what the earth field is running at.
if their were two contacts above and two below a copper to one and an iron to the other both top and bottom - with a bar on the vibrating arm and a small magnet attached to the arm.
When up connect contacts for set of wires for direction of coil to draw arm down.
When connecting down makes direction of coil to repel the arm up.
This would vibrate at the power that the earth currents want, wouldn't it?
At least their is a chance for that type thing to occur.
This also could be run in the duel coil mode. (Just love that concept)
I bet above that spark gap one could put a Tesla Hairpin.
Just thoughts.
FrznWtr
Well I'll be darned. About the 3rd post I read after my post. There it is By
Master_T in post 3476
Definite good Idea Master_T. How do you progress with that setup?
Well I'm back to reading - I should be with you all soon.
FrznWtr
EDIT:
Also, don't forget, that also added into this feedback, could indeed be the additional power gained by having TWO coils in the ground, each acting as an individual electrode, like our early attempts. Take this, add it to the rectified secondary and feed it back to the primary, this in turn increases the flux field imposed onto the secondary, which is then fed back to the primary, etc. We don't need a lot to make it...Just any increase in the flux field at all and it works!!!
Cheers,
Bruce
[/quote]
Say how bout adding the power from a two element EB?
(Carbon and Magneseum - Ribbon & Wire stretched out from both)
little more push?
FrznWtr
Quote from: jeanna on June 01, 2010, 01:07:58 AM
... And, I just had to try this because I have been thinking about it for a while.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD31_yG4MNs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD31_yG4MNs)
Just as soon as I posted the video I thought of an improvement, so there will be more soon.
thank you,
jeanna
Hi Jeanna
Nice inversion of the elements.
About your thought. My Sg back charges the supply bat while charging 4 load bats.
I have never had to cng the supply bat.
So yes I can see that.
Frznwtr
OK Yippee
I read the whole thin-ong (Long Thing)
Well now its build time. Lots of stuff to do and I will.
I'm slow though haha but I'll be working at it with all of you.
I have my new hand held O-scope - came friday and
I will be going out tomorrow to take my first read on my EB's.
Got to fix the lawn mower also etc.etc.
Been "Gathering" for my Cotton Candy Machine.
Gona try shooting fish line over the trees also.
Want to hook up the tin roof just to see also.
Night
FrznWtr
One of the possibility's with 2 units is having them adjacent to each other using each others collapsing fields to sustain operation eliminating the reed switch and rotor once its started. Or the rotor anyway.
Quote from: IotaYodi on September 01, 2010, 07:05:15 AM
One of the possibility's with 2 units is having them adjacent to each other using each others collapsing fields to sustain operation eliminating the reed switch and rotor once its started. Or the rotor anyway.
I agree with this possibility. Also, frozenwaterlabs, you have some very good insight and ideas as well.
Bill
@frozenwaterlab,
I need to leave for a long weekend today, but I took time to read the gb patent and it is indeed different.
I had it on my computer but never really studied it, because what was different was all the info about the electro-magnet!! (what the us pat would not allow!
GB189807577A is the gb patent number.
But here is what I want to repeat.
I want anybody to tell us where he says that a reed switch or any extra switching device is necessary.
Over and over he says the electro magnet comes about merely as a result of wetting the coil.
I saw in the latest video I made an extension of the time the rotor stayed going well beyond the time it rotated when it was away from the coil. It was not connected to the rotor.
I thought it was too subjective to count it, but after rereading the gb patent, I really think this is an important way to go.
I think this will be what I try to do when I return on monday or tues.
Thank you... this is very cool.
jeanna
some screenshots I made of the different parts.
jeanna
Nice work on coils!
BTW, i found that magnesium electrode does not last forewer, but only 5-50 years.
http://www.anodesystems.com/Cathodic_Protection/All_About_Magnesium_Anodes.html
K
The @lasersaber switch exact position can be seen on this graphics.
Notice that the rotor is not dead centered on the coil.
Jesus
The rotor was not centered because that was the first place I ever got the rotor working really well on a NS coil. I since have perfected this to a much higher level.
Quote from: lasersaber on September 02, 2010, 08:41:05 AM
The rotor was not centered because that was the first place I ever got the rotor working really well on a NS coil. I since have perfected this to a much higher level.
My question is: did you connected the reed switch to the start and end of one of the coils?
Jesus
@jesus
Hi ! nice to see you around , the switch is connected one end of one wire and the the other end of the other wire .
Mark
Quote from: Mk1 on September 02, 2010, 02:05:01 PM
@jesus
Hi ! nice to see you around , the switch is connected one end of one wire and the the other end of the other wire .
Mark
Thank you @mk1!
Of course! I forgot that it is not a coil, it is a battery!
Jesus
@ Jeanna
Quote
I saw in the latest video I made an extension of the time the rotor stayed going well beyond the time it rotated when it was away from the coil. It was not connected to the rotor.
I thought it was too subjective to count it, but after rereading the gb patent, I really think this is an important way to go.
End Quote
Are you talking about the rotor spinning without the switch?
Are you thinking the coil might make it spin on it's own?
Quote from: IotaYodi on September 01, 2010, 07:05:15 AM
One of the possibility's with 2 units is having them adjacent to each other using each others collapsing fields to sustain operation eliminating the reed switch and rotor once its started. Or the rotor anyway.
Perhaps two coils would cause alt spin force? Is this the type of thing your meaning IY ?
FrznWtr
QuotePerhaps two coils would cause alt spin force? Is this the type of thing your meaning IY ? FrznWtr
No. The collapsing magnetic field on #1 coil would induce current into #2 coil. When #2 coils magnetic field collapsed it would induce current into #1 coil and so on. One would have to be started first. You would probably want 2 identical cores including the windings to keep a balance between the two but maybe not. Im also thinking that a 3rd coil with a secondary at a distance with larger wire (more current) could be tied in someway. The first 2 coils could be your higher voltage which means smaller wires to wind. Even magnet wire might work. If there is enough current off coil #3 it may be possible to charge a low voltage battery that runs a pulse circuit whose frequency can be adjusted and fed back into coil #1. This might throw more radiant energy into the mix as well as sustain operation. A balance act for sure. First trick is to get the first 2 coils to cycle back and forth somehow.
Well if their inducing current then they will also build an mag field in the core and if their flip flopping this would be a somewhat opposing field for the rotor or could be timed that way if the rotors had an common shaft.
Push pull? Might be an add situation? hard to visualize.
Maybe more explanation is needed. which coils are you referring to? The secondary?
They will induce the Primaries also. and cause a polarity in the core.
I think I'm in over my head till I can build a couple.
Can you conceptualize your idea with a pic and step by step explanation?
the duel coil drawing is a good start.
Asking allot I know - would take sincere effort.
FrznWtr
Quotewould be a somewhat opposing field for the rotor or could be timed that way if the rotors had an common shaft.
That is a different design. Once the coils are started there is no rotor. A magnetic pulse of sufficient force on one coil eliminates the magnetic rotor.
The rotor scheme that laser has is triggering the coil with magnets pulsing the reed switch. Im thinking of just 2 coils and their own magnetic fields pulsing each other with the output being straight electricity into a motor or caps. Lasers single coil design would also work that way,as well as turning the rotor/wheel connected to a shaft. You would then have 2 points of power. The electrical output on the coil and the mechanical power from the shaft turning a belt driven motor or other device. The large rotor/wheel is a good design if we can get enough rpms and torque. A small miniature motor run by the shaft could possibly charge caps or other devices.
QuotePush pull? Might be an add situation? hard to visualize.
Thats an idea worth pursuing when using 2 coils and a rotor wheel. In fact you opened up a can of worms for me with the rotors orientation between 2 coils and no and nc reed switches. A quick concept below.
The larger the coil the more power.
The only problem I see with the coil is low frequency pulses causing local magnetic interference in homes and telecommunications devices. That would have to be looked at. Fcc frowns on that.
Just Posted here
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8540.165
Now @ IotaYodi
Yer quick - I like the way you think.
But first I want to point out NS seams, to me anyway, to suggest the use of both directions of magnetic polarity in the core rod. He knew the secret and I can't believe or don't want to believe he wouldn't leave a crumb trail to the use of his device.
Second if the posable priming of the device might entrain additional power through some type of resonance or sympathetic modulation so to speak, it seams obvious that both or all of the available range of the coil would need to be employed.
With one side or direction the coil is hampered. It would induce a positive hump into the secondary. To do this again is a start from zero proposition.
If on the other hand it then swings the other way (the secondary just slumped its field by creating a spike and returning to "0" with posable some form of swing inertia it may be a bit easier to continue in the neg direction. If you are using Two Coil it seams to me this may be even more a possibility. But I'm not a pro in any of this so just trying to discuss it in a common sense vein. One primary going up the other down. Wire direction the same ok what's the primary winding doing and how is the core affected.
I agree a large flywheel is a definite direction to explore.
Would you agree for your Concept that the field of one secondary would be collapsing and therefor building a current in the other secondary? that would then cause a field to build.
That field would effect the primary and cause a current but it has its own current. Are these going to work together or oppose? I'm trying to understand the whole system. it sounds like the slight current created by the primary itself if uncontrolled is only going to be what it is and can only be beneficial in 1/2 the cycle and oppose the system in the other half unless switched in some manner. Or so I beleave.
So this would be a crescendo situation due to losses and would ring down to nothing without additional input. Where do you propose this comes from and how?
If you eliminate the wheel - well I believe I am at a loss, would the coil cycle itself?
Perhaps the vibratory switch? Or are you thinking the earths energy is going to take over?
Now let me apologize in advance I'm not trying to spoof you here IotaYodi I'm trying to understand what your saying. AND explore all posable avenues. That was why I asked for the step by step
Quote
Once the coils are started there is no rotor. A magnetic pulse of sufficient force on one coil eliminates the magnetic rotor.
The collapsing magnetic field on #1 coil would induce current into #2 coil. When #2 coils magnetic field collapsed it would induce current into #1 coil and so on.
End Quote
Your Picture concept is interesting one generating and one collapsing that I like. I think if the other side of each coil were to have the opposite switch it would compliment the whole operation but who can say what is needed you might be on the right trail??? in this type situation the coils could still be right next to one another. Right?
Would the magnets on the wheel be alternating direction or all face the same way?
Or perhaps two rows?
We need to build like LS and see what will happen right.
That concept is one worth looking at
Bourbon's kicking in
Night all
Quote from: jeanna on September 01, 2010, 03:23:33 PM
I had it on my computer but never really studied it, because what was different was all the info about the electro-magnet!! (what the us pat would not allow!
GB189807577A is the gb patent number.
Thank you... this is very cool.
jeanna
Can you point me to where you got that patent?
I can't seem to find it on the web.
Thanks
DonL
Quote from: dllabarre on September 04, 2010, 10:44:30 AM
Can you point me to where you got that patent?
I can't seem to find it on the web.
Thanks
DonL
Got to this webpage http://ep.espacenet.com/numberSearch?locale=en_EP
And in the field
Number: you type GB189807577 (then click on SEARCH).
May be this direct link works:
http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=18980520&CC=GB&NR=189807577A&KC=A
Greetings, Conrad
QuoteIf you eliminate the wheel - well I believe I am at a loss, would the coil cycle itself?
Thats what Im thinking but its still speculation at the moment.
"to suggest the use of both directions of magnetic polarity in the core rod."
Havent studied that in depth. There are 2 magnetic fields at work here though. The Iron wire plus the iron core. Thats a magnetic field within a magnetic field. The iron field runs parallel to the current. The iron core field runs perpendicular to the current. Dont know if that has much effect on the coils operation.
What im thinking is If the core itself reverses polarity then its because of the iron wire and how its terminated. If a positive copper was connected to one end of the iron wire or negative, then the polarity of the core is in that direction. The other end if connected would be reverse. If neither end of the iron wire is connected then the polarity is dictated by the pos copper or current direction and the iron wire just becomes another magnetic field and when its field collapses it creates a lower current back into the copper wire possibly in the reverse direction. Im seeing a polarity reversal if a pos or copper wire is connected to an end of one iron wire because of the flow of current in the iron wire. Those with working reed switch coils may know if they ran tests.
Ok seams your thinking of the primary (Iron/copper coil itself) and hooking to the Iron wire opposite end's to cause reversal.
haven't considered that. External input to the wire and from the ground batt. hum
This type thing needs to actually be done to observe how it will function. Good concept. If I understand what your suggesting.
FrznWtr
QuoteThis type thing needs to actually be done to observe how it will function.
Exactly. Yes its only the basic primary coil im talking about. The secondary can wait as its main function was to increase amperage.
This coil is really interesting for a variety of reasons. When placed into the ground its an electrostatic induction coil. Out of the ground its a hybrid induction coil. Experiments with standard interrupters and spark gaps could be made on the external standard induction type side. The spark gap intrigues me as a lower voltage spark gap has a more intense magnetic field than a high voltage. That magnetic field itself might be used to trigger another coil.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Induction_coil_cutaway.png
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction_coil
Quote from: conradelektro on September 04, 2010, 11:13:40 AM
Got to this webpage http://ep.espacenet.com/numberSearch?locale=en_EP
And in the field Number: you type GB189807577 (then click on SEARCH).
May be this direct link works:
http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=18980520&CC=GB&NR=189807577A&KC=A
Greetings, Conrad
Got it.
Thank you,
DonL
@IotaYodi
Good info both. I will study this week after catching up on rest. Work is comming in and I need the funds for experimental stuff. :')
Are you aware of Cooks Electromagnetic battery Patent #119825 ? - 1871
So Ns might have been aware of it and used some of the info???
He uses two Double inductors once they are started he states they produce electricity on their own, once started. Until opened or shorted. Then need starting again
But he also states a rheostat can be used to drain some and leave a feeble current to build again.
Might NS's coil start itself in like manner. I beleave this is the type thing you refer to. Right?
His pat points out need for 4 coils. he also speaks to wire size, and hookup method.
Interesting info.
(Reason for mod of post)
sitting here looking at that Induction coil cutaway.png the spark is not being used but put Teslas ladder on top.
Ya know that Duel coil thing might not be that far off (In my opinion)
(Modification again)
Put Cooks Pat and that Induction coil cutaway.png side by side and consider them. Now put NS coil for the primary, two of them in that set up.
I think thats similar to what your thinking. ?
Also it looks like pro built Induction coils use the iron wire for the core and is probably the way to go. I would think individually insulated with varnish, Bundled and Epoxied to make a core. Then for our purposes, the outside of the bundle should be sanded to expose the Iron and warped with cotton. This should minimize the eddie currents while producing better magnetic flux and allow the galvanic response.
FrznWtr
After jeanna reminded me about the Wiegand Effect:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4455.msg212227#msg212227 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4455.msg212227#msg212227)
I had to go back and beyond what I had to learn in the 80's regarding Wiegand wire
and it's applications. My case was security/sensor applications and I felt at the
time that it was to proprietary and I was allergic to licensing fees. So I kind of
took a pass on it but always stuck into one of those compartments in ones mind.
Here is a good background document on Wiegand wire and information about the inventor;
John Wiegand: http://www.defcon.org/images/defcon-17/dc-17-presentations/defcon-17-mike_davis_who_invented_the_proximity_card.pdf (http://www.defcon.org/images/defcon-17/dc-17-presentations/defcon-17-mike_davis_who_invented_the_proximity_card.pdf)
Based on my limited exposure it doesn't matter how fast a magnetic field moves past
the cross-sectional area of the Wiegand wire. At some threshold a burst of magnetic
energy can be pickup up by a copper coil. The copper coil is wrapped around the
Wiegand wire and delivers a nice consistent pulse to a controller at which point the
magnetic field has to go in reverse polarity and cross the same threshold before the
the pulse is sent again. This time it's sent in the opposite polarity. This is the
Wiegand wire's hysteresis characteristics.
Here is John's Wiegand wire patent:
http://www.google.com/patents?id=TZMrAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q&f=false (http://www.google.com/patents?id=TZMrAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q&f=false)
Some, hopefully, short (for your sake and mine) notes may be of some interest.
Wiegand wire mostly consists of cobalt, vanadium and iron. Vicalloy is a tradename.
I think vanadium works in lattice structure forming alignments to the domain wall.
Beings how the Wiegand wire is composed, stretched, twisted, annealed, ....
the cross-sectional area ends up with a soft inner core (whose domains are naturally
aligned lengthwise) and a harder outer core (whose domains are naturally aligned
around the circumference helically (a 90 degree relationship). During the switching
the fields cross causing the effect; Barkhausen at the domain level or induction.
Never did get that nailed down.
From what I can comprehend it appears that speeds of about 200Khz to 2Mhz should be
able to be achieved and I think the higher speeds can provide the more efficient
symmetrical pulse generation. Stresses, length, temperature are some variables to
thresholds, frequency and the induced fields. For a tuned system to work properly
variables need to be controlled. Stable temperatures in the ground.
Perhaps one can now view the 1871 Cook patent in a different light as the Barkhausen
effect was briefly considered (I think by EMdevices and BEP) in the 'The Brnbrade
Coil/Overunity?' thread: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=2630.0 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=2630.0)
Here is an old article on the inventor, John Wiegand, and his tech.
Popular Science, May 1979; 'Mr. Wiegand's Wonderfull Wires'
http://books.google.com/books?id=iwEAAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA102&lpg=PA102#v=onepage&q&f=false (http://books.google.com/books?id=iwEAAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA102&lpg=PA102#v=onepage&q&f=false)
It seems to me John liked to tinker with his pulse generator a lot; always working to
achieve higher output voltages. I think his highest voltage was 12 volts.
No mention of input power requirements or output power that I could find.
Kind of frustrating.
Pulse generator with shielded Wiegand wire: 4743780
http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=s8UzAAAAEBAJ&dq=4743780 (http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=s8UzAAAAEBAJ&dq=4743780)
Pulse generator with shaped magnetic field: 4484090
http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=qK4uAAAAEBAJ&dq=4484090 (http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=qK4uAAAAEBAJ&dq=4484090)
The higher the tension used when helically winding the coil around the core in the
smoothest way possible the higher the energy pulse. We start with a core made of soft
iron. Winding the core with high tension places uniform stresses in both the core
and iron wire. This should further define the domain wall orientation in the iron
making it more bipolar. Due to magnetorestriction the constantly present voltaic
effects, with the copper windings, and the resulting electromagnetic field will
either add to or subtract from the mechanical stresses.
Beside the size another potential benefit of the Stubblefield assembly versus Wiegand
wire is magnetic isolation. Magnetic isolation between the 90 degree relationships
could not have been as good in the Wiegand wire as compared to the Stubblefield
assembly. However, the magnetic gap between these relationships should be as small as
possible. Silk or thin cotton covering sounds good to me.
Take care.
nap
@frozenwaterlab.
I have not seen Jeff cooks work but will check it out. Daniel McFarland Cooks I have. This is an old book from 1842. Lots of information in it. Kudos to Pese who gave us the link.
http://alt-nrg.de/pppp/cook.htm
He scanned the whole thing and its well worth reading. Lots of devices shown. Its the only place I found on how to make a low voltage spark gap. If I make my Ns coil I want to experiment with spark gap magnetic fields and the radiant energy that comes off it. Barlows revolving spur wheel or Ritchies revolving magnet are 2 of them. I would want to use something else rather than mercury though. Barlow is in chapter 2 page 94. Ritchies is Chapter 2 page 100. Stubblefield himself may have read this book. The Induction of magnetism starts at Chapter 2 page 60.
The bundled iron wire core would be better. It just makes the construction a little more difficult but doable. Still the good solid iron cores are only giving folks milliamps. More galvanic and electrostatic action in the ground as well as radiant energy in my mind. Externally it still might be used. Who knows it might even work in a solution of water and iron oxide.
The Ns coil should be pursued just because its not fully understood. Once it is totally understood it may lead to other discoveries.
.
Quote from: IotaYodi on September 06, 2010, 06:13:32 PM
@frozenwaterlab.
I have not seen Jeff cooks work but will check it out. Daniel McFarland Cooks I have. This is an old book from 1842. Lots of information in it. Kudos to Pese who gave us the link.
http://alt-nrg.de/pppp/cook.htm
He scanned the whole thing and its well worth reading. Lots of devices shown. Its the only place I found on how to make a low voltage spark gap. If I make my Ns coil I want to experiment with spark gap magnetic fields and the radiant energy that comes off it. Barlows revolving spur wheel or Ritchies revolving magnet are 2 of them. I would want to use something else rather than mercury though. Barlow is in chapter 2 page 94. Ritchies is Chapter 2 page 100. Stubblefield himself may have read this book. The Induction of magnetism starts at Chapter 2 page 60.
The bundled iron wire core would be better. It just makes the construction a little more difficult but doable. Still the good solid iron cores are only giving folks milliamps. More galvanic and electrostatic action in the ground as well as radiant energy in my mind. Externally it still might be used. Who knows it might even work in a solution of water and iron oxide.
The Ns coil should be pursued just because its not fully understood. Once it is totally understood it may lead to other discoveries.
.
I tried to browse the cook.htm book from the link and it only show an empty page.
Has you or anybody downloaded it to a place we can browse or download it?
Jesus
QuoteHas you or anybody downloaded it to a place we can browse or download it?
Jesus it only appears that way. Use the arrows on the right of the page to scroll. To download it click on print and it gives instructions. I would download it. Lots of excellent material in it.
Quote from: IotaYodi on September 06, 2010, 08:39:46 PM
Jesus it only appears that way. Use the arrows on the right of the page to scroll. To download it click on print and it gives instructions. I would download it. Lots of excellent material in it.
Thank you that was what I did.
Jesus
Found this
An atempt to replicate Cook's Patent
Hope it will load
Nope Too Large
OK Here's the link
http://my.voyager.net/~jrrandall/CookCoil.htm
FrznWtr
AFTER THINKING ABOUT THAT REPLICATION ATTEMPT Drat Caps-lock
He couldn't get it to work But what if the two cores were bridged [] to make a continuious transformer
core?
FrznWtr
Frozen:
I do remember from seeing those photos of Stubblefield's coils that there were usually a lot of them. Maybe he hooked all of them in series? Or parallel? Or maybe some in one mode and the rest in the other? We do know that he used many coils when doing his experiments....that's about all we know.
Bill
Hi everybody,
Lidmotor just pm'd me this link to someone in spain who has made a lasersaber stubblefield with the addition of a capacitor. I tried the cap once and found that the metal seemed to last.
I still do not have a working unit myself, but this guy does.
Have a look.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XihmGdDpB2o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XihmGdDpB2o)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4heZ0_rYdvg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4heZ0_rYdvg)
jeanna
@jeanna's links captured pictures
Hi ....I was exp. with a 20" length of 3/4"copper waterline......20"lenght of galv waterline ..........10' apart 10" in the ground.........I was getting 1v.....I hooked my little NS coil in series .......its' readings on the bench and in the ground were 630mv......once hooked to the two pipes...........1380mv..so 1.4v......I thought it would have been 1.6v......then I put a 4"galv nail in the center of the exposed galv waterline......connected to nail ......readings jumped to 1700mv...1.7v....tried putting copper wire (doubled) in the center of the copper waterline...........the readings stayed the same....has anybody ever tried layered windings.......shylo
@all,
I arrived back in Aussie from my three week vacation in New Guinea on Karkar Island, had a great time there.
I saw Chemtrails in the sky and white planes on the ground.
I showed a few people lasersabers replication of his working coil, they were simply amazed at the propeller being driven by something other than a battery. They also want to see if an ordinary torch bulb can be lit, it being switched on when needed, but when off, a nicad being charged, so theres a project that someone can try and do.
Say the coils output be funnelled into a diode, the battery being connected across the output, that should do it.
One new Guinean wants to replicate ASAP so he now has had it explained to him how to make the cotton covered wire etc etc, they have Lasersabers youtube videos as a step by step guide for reference.
I managed to leave 2 Cd's chockablock with OU stuff on it with a trusting sole, so they can get some sort of a head start as they don't have anywhere near the internet setup that we have at out fingertips. In fact a computer is a rarity anywhere on the islands.
I left a set of magnifying glasses so someone could receive the gift of reading again as there is simply no system setup to help them with glasses, if you eyes deteriorate, then its time to stop being able to read.
A few other things happened, one was quite sad, this last week, a baby born only hours before, it died on the beach side, while we were attempting to rush it and its mother, a helper and the nurse to the mainland to try and get emerg help for it, that was a hard one to swallow, it didn't even have a name. There are 3 doctors for 55,000 people on that island, bagabag Island has about 10,000 people, and NO doctor, we are so lucky.
The water was warm, black sand does exist, the volcano behaved itself andthe ELLY II is recommended by me, I got soaked on the right side and completely dry on the left side, now that's jolly good fun lol.
I was living in a fridge in Aussie before I left, then I lived in a stove in the tropics, now I'm back in the fridge again.
Switching on the computer, I had 600 odd emails to sort, I came here, and I see I'm playing catch up like I was doing on the Joule thief thread, some things don't change.
Lots have been happening here on the forum by the number of posts, lots of new info been posted while I've been away, all very interresting stuff, congrats to everybody, you are making good progress with the stubblefield coils.
jim
@shylo: Pretty good numbers for the setup and depth. Dont know of anyone who has done the windings that way.
Electricme that is sad news. Look at all the Billionaires that could help. >:(
Welcome back Jim!
-----------
I had a conversation with a (very enthusiastic) friend today.
It seems he wants me to teach him how to make an earth battery...
from the sound in his voice I thought he was hoping to light up his whole house with it!
Hopefully he will be happy with a joule thief running a white led.
thank you,
jeanna
Jim:
Welcome back Mate!
I was very saddened to hear of your experience with the little one over there. Some things we can not change.
I do not envy your trying to catch up on your e-mail and the posts over here. It may take a while, ha ha.
Do check out Lasersaber's topic. His Stubblefield coil has been running a motor 24/7 for over 3 months now. Fantastic stuff.
I am glad to see you survived the ferry boat expeditions, and somehow, you managed to elude the cannibals. How many tons of black sand did you bring back with you?
Just kidding Jim.
Very good to have you back home and back here. Welcome back to Ice Station Zebra.
Bill
Thanks to everyone for the welcome back.
I will take a look at Lasersabers stuff shortly but looking at my bandwidth, it says 102bytes, Activ8me is pritty lousy with their so called brodband product, even dialup is blindingly fast. Maby I should put the dish through a shredder and post it back to them ;D
The people up there need a lot of stubblefield coils with LEDs on them, so lets get cracking on it.
I'm still mineing my way through emails and PMs ;)
jim
@all,
I just came across a circuit that could be put to good usage by us in our stubblefield research.
This test instrument measures the strength of a magnetic field and is the magnetic field the North Pole or the South Pole.
I found it in Circuit Notebook of the Sillicon Chip September issue on page 92, there are very few parts which makes it easy to build.
It uses a UGN3503u 3 pin IC (not a transistor) it's a radiometric linear Hall Effect sensor, Jaycar part number ZD-1902
It was designed by a reader in N.S.W. and forwarded to the magazine, which I recomend to everyone.
For those who dabble in HHO stuff you might be interrested in this http://www.siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_112072/article.html
jim
Hello. After a very long hiatus (many life events including the birth of 2 children) My interest in this subject has returned enough to start actively developing again. I have located all of my old materials and prototypes. I will be taking a bit of time to read all of the postings I missed. I look forward to talking with you guys soon.
Hi Jeanna, Electrime..... :)
MW383:
Welcome back.
Also check out Lasersaber's topic where he has an NS coil powering a rotor now for over 3 months. He used the cotton covered wire and it appears to be a pretty true replication of NS's coil.
Looking forward to seeing your experiments.
Bill
Thanks Bill. I will indeed look at this other project. Boy I am way behind!
@mw383
Hello, nice to see you again, thats quite a break you had :D
I heard the groooooan down south here as you realised playing catch is fun fun fun lol.
As Bill says, lasersaber has done some big discoveries, and more will be coming forward no doubt.
jim
Just got done watching lasersaber videos. Nice construction techniques with results similar to my last attempts last year. My interest in this subject is becoming very much renewed.
I am going to start with a few ground experiments using the series-parallel-resonant induction circuit + pancake coil apparatus I have. I posted a picture of it last year I think. (Coil in the picture was for another experiement and will not be used for my ground experiements. That coil was a water heating system. Coil wrapped around ferrous iron pipe. It was one hell of a water heater btw.) So I'll be using pancake coil that I have. It will be mounted vertically in ground so that it creates a field in a rough N-S orientation. Coil has mumetal on 1 side thus quenching field in that direction. I will run coil with+without the mumetal and see what happens. I can run the coil at various power levels and 2 frequencies (50khz, 25khz). The circuit does not allow me to do much else but I will see what happens anyway. I'll probably put some rods in the vicinity of field I create and measure any variation in earth electrical response. Probably simple copper-iron deal here. Will not be able to get iron near field as it will heat. I'll play with it. Results by next Monday...
Quote from: MW383 on September 23, 2010, 11:15:43 AM
Just got done watching lasersaber videos. Nice construction techniques with results similar to my last attempts last year. My interest in this subject is becoming very much renewed.
I am going to start with a few ground experiments using the series-parallel-resonant induction circuit + pancake coil apparatus I have. I posted a picture of it last year I think. (Coil in the picture was for another experiement and will not be used for my ground experiements. That coil was a water heating system. Coil wrapped around ferrous iron pipe. It was one hell of a water heater btw.) So I'll be using pancake coil that I have. It will be mounted vertically in ground so that it creates a field in a rough N-S orientation. Coil has mumetal on 1 side thus quenching field in that direction. I will run coil with+without the mumetal and see what happens. I can run the coil at various power levels and 2 frequencies (50khz, 25khz). The circuit does not allow me to do much else but I will see what happens anyway. I'll probably put some rods in the vicinity of field I create and measure any variation in earth electrical response. Probably simple copper-iron deal here. Will not be able to get iron near field as it will heat. I'll play with it. Results by next Monday...
If you have that old picture handy I'd like to see it.
If not, I can wait for a new picture after you get set up again.
Thanks
DonL
Quote from: dllabarre on September 23, 2010, 11:35:12 AM
If you have that old picture handy I'd like to see it.
Thanks
DonL
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7769.msg210889#msg210889
Here is link for page w/ picture. Water heating coil present in this picture. (induction water heating...) On a side note, I have new litz wire so I can build improved water heating coil that should be better than original one in picture. Call it an ultra-modern (and very efficient) hot water heating system for your house...That is the intent anyway. Could also be used for domestic hot water but only in low output flow/volumes. Induction circuit requires only 450W/120VAC so feeding it with small wind generator feasible. I live in extreme wind. But this is off topic :)
For ground experiements I will be using pancake coil mounted so that field produced is in line w/ natural earth magnetics for my location as reported by that one geological site. I have to re-look up but as I remember it, the field ran slightly SE to slightly NW by a few degrees from true N-S and at an inclination angle of 12deg downward as it heads to the North. Again, I need to find that site and look this up again. When I was experimenting with simple Fe-Cu rods, my best results were obtained when I had rod alignment tuned to geological data for my area. So with my gizmo, a magnetic field artificially being produced and in-line with earth's own. Circuit limited to 25or50Khz unfortunately... Field will be quite strong however. My question is...what is happening electrically on axis to right angle of this created field? Fe-Cu posts will be re-employed. Readings of their output will be taken in natural state and when artificial magnetic field activated. These are some basic questions I have after reading many geological prospecting patents (looking for oil/minerals) in which a similar technique is used. This type of equipment employed in 70-80's and able to react with earth to great depths.
Whole theory here is that natural system balances itself magnetically/electrically. We know natural magnetic field is there. We know there is electrical counterpart through simple Fe-Cu rod experiments. We know the electrical response is weak (say 1 volt and 20ma DC). So it would seem reasonable that magnetic field is also weak. In looking at the magnetic field data for earth, it is stronger and weaker in various places. Thus I would expect stronger/weaker electrical responses. Stubblefield seemed to have a knack for finding the best places to put these things. It would appear that rock-ridden ground doesn't work so good as evidenced in a Stubblefield failure up in New York if my memory serves me correctly. Maybe all of the rocks create localized or larger dipole effects that screw things up, not sure..
My basic question = will earth respond in larger electrical way if larger magnetic field present? Hence I will get busy finding out. Should there be anything interesting here, better-more adjustable equipment will be needed. I want to go much lower in frequency than this circuit I have. I have found various kits that can be constructed together to achieve this. I need to find all of that info and review again. I also want to experiment with the many parallel-resonant Tishitang ideas posted here last year. Stubblefield did radio and it was probably a closely related to his battery in ways. Thus I still think Tishitang's thoughts still apply to our work. On another note, the construction of Stubblefield's coil is brutal. Maybe low in voltage but should handle some real big current. I have to think it is built big for this very purpose. We get mA DC out of what we currently build, Stubblefield looks to have had much larger current and at some frequency related to earth's.
But how to get it :)
Hi to all am new here and have been trying a few things ....I'm currently reading this post from the start,on pg28 so far.....posted about putting a mini NS coil in series with copper &galv pipes ....their voltages added...Just tried to hook two coppers, to two galvs, they won't add ......I seperated the two coppers by 10'.....went 15' to the south .....put the two galv spikes 10' apart....I can hook ethier copper to ethier galv ...and get the same readings 1.03v.........tried adding in series and parallel.....neither worked.......read that somebody isolated their probes with plastic.....this allowed them to add .......I tried house wire 14/2..taped the ends that were in the ground.......didn't work.......I'm sure the answer is there just have'nt got there yet.......can anybody save me alot of reading.......maybe an update of what works and what does'nt ........thanx in advance ......shylo
shylow:
Welcome over here. Check out Electricme's posts somewhere about 8 months ago or so where he placed his electrodes in series and got like 40-60 vdc. I am not sure exactly where that was but it is on the more recent end of this topic as opposed to the beginning.
Bill
@shylo,
Looks like you got some frustration, with your rods in the earth, like all those who came before you.
Only way I can explain this is the earth is a "single" entity, so only 1 set of electrodes work. They can put out up to 1.5volts in rare times, but I think this is a location thing which produces such volts.
I think a number of rods in the earth could work, if there was some means electronically of doing this. My theory would be to set up a heep of rods in the earth, then common up all the negatives together, each Positive seperatly loading a small value capacitor, then use a IC to switch to each positive rod in turn which could "dump" the energy inside the capacitor into a single large FARAD capacitor or charge up a battery, then use the energy accumulated.
Only my theory of course, but no ones tried this before here, it may work, it may not work, but from where I'm looking at it, there seems to be a better chance of it working than not.
I did get as Bill has said up to 60 volts out of my EER setup in my back yard, I found I had to insulate every cell with plastic insulation tape, also the bottom of the tube, if I had more copper pipe and zinc nails, I would have achieved an even higher voltage.
To get enough energy to drive a single white LED, I had to divide the cells up into Series / parallel arrangement, the LED was blindingly bright at times, but I was always having to put water into each cell to make it work. It is galvanic, a bit like voltares many disks in brine (I think) but this was in dirt.
I'm beginning to think it's the humble water molocule where the energy lies.
Somehow it can pull the electrons out of one metal and put them onto another metal, in the process the electricity is made.
Don't hold me on this, only my idea and could be wrong.
jim
Hi Jim......thats amazing ,when you say "insulate with plastic tape"is this electrical tape?....the cell being, galv-,copper+, inside a plastic tube? I have an arteasion well could put my cells in it, saving have to add water continously.....I've been looking for your earlier post ,but haven't found it yet, this site is very slow for me since I'm on dial -up......and I agree Ithink the answer is in the water......thanx......shylo
@shylo,
Thats right, use electrical insulation tape on the outside of each copper cell.
You must seal the bottom of each cell also, if you don't the electricity in the cell will "leak" away to earth, any other cell not insulated in this way will also leak away to earth.
If you "flood" the cells in water, they will not work properly, the same thing occurs with the Stubblefield cell too, as Lasersaber has found out, it needs a happy medium to work, between wet and dry. ;)
If you want to have amps from this type of setup, you will need to make each cell larger, how big I don't know, at a guess, about 2 to 3 feet long, and you would need to aquire a zink nail that long too, but it stands to reason that is the way to success.
As far as I understand, I hold the voltage record for a EER cells since 2009, at 66 volts DC. Anyone reading this is welcome to break this record, if they wish to do so.
I might even try to break my own record ha ha, but I want to finish making some machinery 1st though.
jim
@all,
Today I decided it was time to begin work on my Stubblefield coil winding machine, so I threw some iron pipe together, and it holds the blank stubblefield former between ends.
I made the main frame so it can be adjustable from 7" coils to 24 inch coils.
The nut from the center bolt on the empty Stubblefield former near the wooden end, fits into a sidchrome socket, which I welded a nut which attaches to the horizontal main drive shaft.
On the other side of the business of the Stubblefield coil (the adjustable attachment)is a threaded rod with a tightening handle to put pressure to the end of the bolt which goes through the middle of the Stubblefield coil.
This threaded rod is machined down to a 1/4 stubby shaft, which goes into a mating hole in the Stubblefield main bolt.
I found I will need to cut the support posts down a bit as it sticks up way too high, maby I should leave it there, hmmm.....
Next step is to attache it to a table of sorts, then attach a PWM drive motor to the center drive shaft, got some figuring out to do now.
See the attached photos, excuse the mess please.
jim
Hi everybody
I’d like to offer some speculations on Stubblefields bifilar coil.
I see the Stubblefield coil as a oscillator. I believe that the galvanic battery that it forms, is what kickstarts the oscillator into operation.
Consider 2 Tesla pancake coils that are placed on top of each other. They would surely interfere with each others operation. This could be overcome by placing insulation between the pancake coils.
I would speculate that the insulation between the layers in the stubblefield coil be at least the same thickness of the wire that you are using. The 2 wires that are being used must be up tight against each other, but the layers must be further apart so that the magnetic fields of the one layer do not interfere with the next layer.
Just a thought
Regards
Sarah:
Welcome. Those are some good thoughts. I agree.
Bill
Sorry to move this post from the data logging thread but I guess no one is looking there.
You will all have to step into the "way back" machine to remember this post from last November.
Quote from: electricme
on November 30, 2009, 07:53:05 PM]
==============================================================
OK ALL,
Yesterday I posted I would do a experiment, the idea is to show which electrodes interact the best picking up earth currents, and the results are surprising.
I used a COPPER as the North and positave electrode.
Aluminium, Copper, Steel and Magnesium coated rod.
Copper Positave and Aluminium produced the best results
AT REST MOVEMENT ANALOG
POSITIVE TEST METAL V DMM V DMM OBSERVATIONS
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
COPPER MAGNESIUM = 36.0mv 71.0mv needle slight movement
COPPER STEEL = -2.9mv 40.0mv needle not moveing
COPPER COPPER = -20mv -10mv needle not moveing
COPPER ALUMININUM = 80mv 198mv needle swinging wildly back and forth
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Results =
1st Copper as Positave, Alumininun as Negative produces best results
2nd Copper as Positave, Mag as negative
coper and coper, copper and steel = zilch
My test photo below showing the setup
Tiny Videos following below this post
jim
===============================================================
Question:
Were all the pieces of metal used in this experiment the same size?
I'm referring to surface area and not just length.
I've never seen where copper and aluminum produced the best effect.
So if one of the pieces of metal was larger (more surface area) than the other, then that might be an important fact that we could try to exploit.
DonL
Quotebut the layers must be further apart so that the magnetic fields of the one layer do not interfere with the next layer.
With the overall magnetic intensity of the coil it would take a lot more spacing than that using cotton. The adjacent iron wire would also have a higher magnetic field than the current carrying copper wire. You would need a cotton cord in between the copper and iron wires also if you were trying to do that. The cotton cord may not be a bad experimental idea in between the iron and copper. Might give more charge area.
Hi everybody
To show that its possibly the bifilar arrangement that makes the Stubblefield coil special,
and not so much the galvanic battery, consider this article from the JL Naudin website
http://home.comcast.net/~onichelson/VOLTGN.pdf
Kind regards
Hi Sarah2009,
Welcome!
This is interesting what you say about the layer between layers.
Lasersaber used tee shirt material and I used a thin cotton cloth. His is thicker than mine.
I do not know what lidmotor used for the layer of cotton, but they both got theirs to work and I have not yet.
Mine is not as thick, but it is thick enough to get some magnet pulses going, and I am not at all sure that I do get any magnetic pulses.
I do not know what is wrong with mine.
I think it is a combination of the coil and the rotor, and it is so much work to get either to work, I have become discouraged.
Do you have a working stubblefield coil?
thank you,
jeanna
Quote from: sarah2009 on September 28, 2010, 03:55:18 PM
Hi everybody
To show that its possibly the bifilar arrangement that makes the Stubblefield coil special,
and not so much the galvanic battery, consider this article from the JL Naudin website
http://home.comcast.net/~onichelson/VOLTGN.pdf
Kind regards
further confirmation of bifilar.....Stubblefield's galvonic bifilar obviously an interesting twist isn't it? Interesting point on 2 tesla pancake coils in near vicinty btw... multi-layered Stubblefield coils, especially those reproductions which employ a 'there and back again' winding direction through multiple coil layers do not compute with me. I would love for induction coil expert to set me straight on this one. My simple experiments indicate stronger magnetic field occurs with same direction winding philosophy. Or crudely put, better ability to pick up paperclips. Induction into a secondary also obviously better. There are optimization opportunities available. I guess I will start building again...
Regarding oscillation aspects...You are correct. There can be no other possibilities.
Your input very most welcome here. I look forward to hearing more :)
@all,
;D ;D ;D It's time to celebrate a little Ha ha. ;D ;D ;D
Today I continued to build my Stubblefield Coil Winding machine, The chain drive setup gave me a little bit of curry, but it wasnt long before I sorted that out.
The chain at times wanted to jog around a bit, it turned out I had to move the bottom sprocket along the drive shaft and it's ok now.
I connected a empty stubblefield coil former and hooked the motor to a battery, switched on and it worked.
1 single turn of copper wire = 42mm in length
It takes 14 seconds to make 1 RPM.
The SCWM put 206 turns of "bare" copper wire on the supporting bar
Wire size was 0.90mm or 0.025 inches
It took a long time and much concentration to use the machine, it was not a simple matter of holding the wire and hopeing for the best, I found if I lost concentration or was distracted, the copper wire would tend to travel back over the previous turn or a small gap would form between turns.
But the 99.9% of turns were very very tight and very close together.
The DC motor was cool to the touch after doing it's job.
******************************************************
*Did it perform as I expected it to? YES, I can say it is a total success.*
******************************************************
I will post a photo or two of it and also some tiny videos, if they will go through.
Remember,,,,, It is winding a SINGLE copper wire only, as this is a test to see if it would work.
Please enjoy my successfull Stubblefield Winding Machine.
jim
3189 = Beginning of the first ever try to wind a coil on the machine
3190 = Closeup of turns, boy oh boy, these turns are neet and tidy.
3193 = Arrived at the end of the right wooden disk, I had to cut a "small slot" in the top to acomodate the left over wire, so it would not unravel.
Here are more photo's of my Stubblefield Winding Machine.
These are of the motor, gearbox and chain drive, this had me held up for quite a while.
enjoy :)
jim
3200 = Back end of the 24 volt DC motor (I ran it on a 12v battery)
3201 = Motor is mounted to vertical frame and chain drive and sprockets are seen.
3202 = Closer view of the drive, sorry about the rusty plate, its all I had :)
3203 = First successful wind is done.
BTW, if anyone wants to make their own Stubblefield Winding Machine using my setup as an example, please do, you are welcome.
General @electricme
You are a good inventor!
Jesus
That is a nifty winder you have there Jim. I also liked your older posts on cotton insulating winder. That was very similar to what a local factory I use for rope style heating elements does. Only differences = they use more spindles of thread, they use variety of thread supply angles in relationship to target wire. Neat stuff and very inventive on your part...
@ jesus and mw383,
Thank you both for these kind remarks, I try my best.
I have already begun thinking of many improvements to this machine and will carry on with the MK2 CWM.
In the mean time here are the Tiny Videos I said I would post here, look for the paper clips below, dbl click on them to load and play them, they are about 8 - 10 seconds long.
Enjoy
jim
1st = The machine can accomodate Stubblefield coil formers from 7 inches to 24 inches
2nd = Checking the drive chain, motor, gearbox, chain drive and shaft rotation.
3rd = Starting for the first time, it works.
@ all,
Continueing to test the Stubblefield Coil Winding Machine.
Please remember, this is using only a single strand of copper wire, it is not bifilar wire winding, that will be next.
All I am doing is getting used to how the machine works and to see if any faults come up, then rectify them as I go about using it, better to know beforehand using scrappy wire than using the good wire.
Already I have learn't it is not a simple process, my hands do ake holding the wire under tension, concentration is a big essential matter, I found if I loose concentration, as quick as a wink, the wire begins to form a gap or it travels over the top of the previous turns, so gotta be careful and on my toes all the time.
It takes a very long time to wind every layer, there is simply NO point in rushing this process, all turns must be neet and tidy, on of the essential keys to making the Stubblefield coil to work as Lasersaber has indicated in his remarkable youtube videos.
One improvement I want to incorporate is to attatch a alternator slip ring assembly at one of the shaft or bolt ends, to feed "any" energy out to a Volt meter or oscilliscope so I can see at a glance if a short has begun, I could instantly stop the wind and look at the short, or to monitor the turns number when electrical activity begins and watch its strength grow at every stage of the coils building.
That should be very exciting to do.
jim
Here are another set of the last 3 tiny videos on this series.
4th = Winds begin for the first test.
5th = midway through the coil laying test
6th = Reached the end of the 1st layer test.
Hope you enjoyed this series, now you can make your own Stubblefield Coil Winding Machine.
Good afternoon!
Stubblefield coil can try to put in distilled water, what happens?
I spent the experience: put in distilled water, 100g rod zinc and copper rod - got 0.76v
placed in distilled water 100ml, zinc rod and the rod graphite (carbon) was 0.71v
But when the super capacitor is connected, the zinc and carbon steel is better to charge the super capacitor than zinc and copper.
Distilled water is very poorly reacts with metals and the battery can operate for long
I've long been following this topic
Thanks to all
Quote from: electricme on September 22, 2010, 12:30:09 AM
...It uses a UGN3503u 3 pin IC (not a transistor) it's a radiometric linear Hall Effect sensor, Jaycar part number ZD-1902
Apparently, it has been discontinued and replaced with the A1301 and A1302
http://www.allegromicro.com/en/Products/Part_Numbers/1301/1301.pdf
Is this part plug compatible?
@ Paul-R,
I have just been taking a look at the Allegro web site about the A1301 and the UG
N3503u, they look like they have the same specifications, either one should do the job.
I suggest you hook either one up through a LM7805 voltage regulator, as their VCC specs are from 4.5 to 6 volts, 8 volts max, but I wouldn't want to push it that far into the hi limit end.
You didn't mention what application you had in mind using it, might it be for measuring the magnetic flux around the Stubblefield Coil?
If so, you might need to slip a 1n4048 glass signal diode on the output leg, between the 22k resistor and the meter, or the meter might swing back and forth too violently.
jim
Jim:
You are one of the smartest folks I know. Your new machine is yet another brilliant idea that you not only thought of, but built.
My Dad was an Engineer. They actually build things and make them work and improve them. You sir, are an Engineer.
Cheers mate.
Bil
@ Bill,
No, I ain't that smart, but thank you for the acolades, ha ha.
I am currently cutting down a steel work bench to lower it so I can mount my Stubbfield winder on the top, had a few "extra" bits and pieces to do over the last few days, I am fiddling around with at the moment though.
One thing I intend to do is make a Stubblefield Test Research Coil, screw a vaccuum cleaner brish disk setup to one end and use this to monitor the electrical activity as the coil bifiler section is wound at every turn, every layer. This should give me some idea when electrical activity begins and it's strength in real time, by hooking it up to a CRO and Voltmeter, amp meter and a "variable load".
It will take a little more thought but is dooable. ;)
jim
Thought this might be of interest to some.
It can be seen that in a nonmagnetic conductor like Copper,carrying DC, the internal field strength rises from zero at the center to a maximum value at the surface of the conductor. The external field strength decrease with distance from the surface of the conductor. When the conductor is a magnetic material like iron,the field strength within the conductor is much greater than it is in the nonmagnetic conductor. This is due to the permeability of the magnetic material. The external field is exactly the same for the two materials provided the current level and conductor radius are the same.
Iota:
Thanks for posting this.
Bill
to Iota..........if the iron has a stronger internal field , than the copper..........then why would the surface field be equal?..........I don't understand..........in a NS coil the current flow, created by the galvanic reaction,.....is flow in the copper only? ,.......inducing a magnetic field in the steel wire,.....thus inducing a magnetic field in the core?........I'm not sure I understand whats going on here.......thanx...........shylo
Quotethen why would the surface field be equal?
From my understanding the internal field intensity is confined within the metal conductor. Once it leaves the magnetic domains in the metal, the same internal field intensity is lost because there are no magnetic domains external to it. This makes sense.
Quoteis flow in the copper only? ,.......inducing a magnetic field in the steel wire,
Copper has 100% conductivity while pure iron is only 18%. Any alloy of iron is lower than this. There would be a limited current in the iron. According to this information the coppers current flow would not induce a magnetic field of any consequence into the iron wire. The iron wires magnetic field collapse would induce v/a into the copper. The magnetic field stays uniform throughout the coil without alteration. This was one of my questions if the copper was inducing a magnetic field into the iron wire and apparently it doesnt. This leads me to believe that the iron core and the iron wire are working together as one simultaneously. Once again a low carbon high iron wire will work better. A better and stronger field collapse will give you more power.
Current input whether in ground or externally will dictate the power. Also the number of windings and materials used. Galvanic and external currents combined as well as other means need to be studied. Heres Tishatang experimental view on the subject.
OK, here is my circuit on the Stubblefield Patent 600457
To understand the patent you have to understand resonant circuits. To review: A parallel res circuit multiplies the voltage. A series res circuit multiplies the amps. The Q of the circuit is the multiplier.
For example: We have two ground rods. The voltage between them is 1 AC volt at a small .002 amps. Then if Q is the multiplier, we have 50 volts peak on the parallel circuit, and .100 amps on the series circuit. If we could combine the two separate circuits, we would have a gain in power of 50 X 50 = 2500 all in theory. If we were only 10 % efficient due to loads and losses, we would still have a gain of 250, not bad. The bifilar coil in the patent is high Q construction. It probably has a Q of 100 to 200. So, you see the potential is there.to gain a lot of power even with a small input.
Stubblefield did not have diodes to play with in his day. Unless he used an antennae, he would not be able to use a parallel circuit. So, what did he do? He used two series circuits to amplify the amps. The two ground rods of their respective circuits would still remain at the one volt difference. We are just pumping up the amps. He gets the gain in voltage by colliding the series currents into each other. Notice the new circuit shows the ground rod pairs at opposite voltage to each other!
Have you ever watched boats in a lake coming in from opposite directions. Each has a small wake. But when the wakes collide, it sets up a few big high waves. Same effect is seen when reflected waves meet the source waves. You get higher and lower waves at a lower frequency as their energies mix and match or cancel each other. these higher and stronger wave energize the collector coil wound around the bifilar pair in opposition. This is our power gain. Their must be an also unknown power gain by using one coil of iron. The higher resistance of iron can possibly link with the magnetic field of the earth, or cause a phase shift that helps the amplification factor? Or maybe has something to do with conditioning the space?
I have seen writings speculating on the make or break of the secondary (collector) coil. This is a simple relay set up as a vibrator. Here, it is normally closed. I should have placed it next to its battery where it can be normally open. When energized by the battery or separate EB, the coil of the relay opens and closes the contacts in a vibrating mode. This works the same as hitting a bell with a hammer. The bell will ring at its resonant tone. It doesn't matter how you hit the bell or how fast or what kind of hammer. It will still ring at the same tone. A tuned resonant circuit acts the same as a bell. The sharp pulses of the relay contacts will ring the circuits at their resonant frequencies automatically.
To have this make or break in the patent only makes sense if you are using resonant circuits. The same reason he used high Q winding techniques. These are resonant circuits. Everything points to it.
Even though the iron and copper coils are linked together as a bifilar winding, they can each have different resonant frequencies. The make or break will ring them both. Look back to the Q reference at the beginning of this thread and see the graph. The higher the Q, the longer the ring.
This primes the pump, so to speak, and gets things going into resonance. Then the battery and the relay are no longer needed. You collect your power through the normally closed switch. The pumping action conditions the immediate area. The longer you pump the EB, the bigger your conditioned area will become. You can add a feedback loop to sustain operation. If earth currents shift or weaken, you can prime the pump again to get things going. Once conditioned, it takes less energy to sustain the field. To get it going again might be as easy as sparking the wire as you touch it to connect.
Knowing these principles, you can can design your own version of the patent. It can be bigger or smaller. Smaller means higher frequencies. Bigger means lower frequencies. Normally, the lower frequencies carry more energy. I say start with what you have on hand to prove the principle. Try and use natural insulation materials instead of plastic. Fiberglass and resin are OK for insulation. I have a feeling modern magnet wire is OK as long as the coating is not plastic. Be sure and use the wood ends and cotton wrap between layers of the coils and the core. I will explain why later.
Before you bury your EB in the ground do the following:
Place the components on the ground and map the magnetic fields around a five foot radius or whatever you have room for. Write down, the direction the compass points as you walk around the spot. See how close the compass has to be to attract to the iron, say 3 inches. Then after you bury it and start your conditioning, see if it changes the magnetic field? Magnetic field and orientation of the compass changes will indicate conditioning is happening and how far out it has expanded. For example, the compass is now pointing to the iron at two feet away instead of 3 inches with the priming turned off.
I hope this helps us all in the search for cheap energy.
Tishatang
@All,
I have been able to make a Stubblefield Coil in a different way than the normal.
The above posts are real good stuff to know and thank you to those who have provided it.
I have been playing around with one of my Stubblefield Coil Winding Machines doing an experiment of sorts, I built a second machine the MK2 model and I am testing it, I must say it is way better than my first machine in looks and fuctionanality. I will write up about it later, but first here is what I have been doing over the last two days.
For some time I have been thinking is there another way to make a Stubblefield Coil by altering the technique slightly, and it seem to be so.
Thinking about the original patient, Stubblefield shows us a drawing showing the Iron and Copper wires with the "cotton" covering around the copper wire.
I got to thinking, is there another way to do this, because without doubt after reading the posts, everyone including myself are having difficulties getting hold of the cotton covered copper wire. It's expensive or unobtainable being the most frequent complaints or a combination of both.
So out came my drawing pen and I began to sketch a few plans, how to solve this delima, and I have to say I have come up with another way of doing the same thing, without using or making a cotton winding machine to make the cotton covered wire.
The technique I will show you all looks very simple, but after trying it, the actual process of making this work is very very difficult indeed, and I certainly do not recommend anyone do this if they have no experience in winding Stubblefield Coils.
I only attempted this as I have had previous years of experience in the method of winding coils of different diameters and thicknesses of wires.
As you all know, cotton is the insulator for the bare copper wire, but it can also be used in the same fashion with the bare Iron wire, either conductor will do, just as long as the wires are separated by some barrier that will provide the separation effect but still allow moisture to penetrate and allow the energy to flow between the conductors.
Just for a moment imagine a single Iron and a single copper wire, viewed end on like this OO.
After thinking about the problem, it dawned on me, that there is a sheet of cotton below and above the copper and the Iron wires.
So this leaves only the "sides" of the metal wires left to be insulated, and so I thought, what could be used here, and the answer is simple, use cotton STRING.
I went to town and bought several balls of cotton string from the reject shop, they were cheap at $2 a packet, 2 rolls in each, the length is at 75 meters a ball of cotton string, it works out to 246 inches per roll, two rolls works out to just under 500 feet of cotton string, I ended up getting 4 packets.
Beginning to wind
I made sure the iron bolt had a layer of cotton tape to insulate it first.
The way wind in QUADfilar is to hold between the fingers and thumb 4 strands of material, consisting of a cotton string, next to it a Iron wire, next to that another cotton string then next to that a copper wire, seems simple doesn't it.
So in that configuration I began to wind a Stubblefield Coil in the MKII Stubblefield Coil Winding Machine I have made.
Believe me this is not for those who have no patience or couldn't be bothered, or if you don't have a coil winding machine, it tried my patience to the limit.
I set the machine speed to very low RPM, just a walk speed and soon I had problems with the cotton strings getting in the wrong place, it is very hard to keep everything paralleled up with either a wire or cotton string. To confound the problems the cotton string and the cotton tape in the background was straining my eyes.
Remember this is 4 things you are trying to hold together in a flat configuration, they must not be apart either, but held next to each other.
After I got to the end of the first layer, I checked it for shorts, and there were none, so far so good, next grabbed some cotton tape as I don't have a spare sheet or pillow case to use and covered the 1st layer. This insulates the top of the wires, now I had formed a insulation barrier between the top of the Iron and Copper wires, just as if there was a bare copper wire that had a cotton thread wound around it, the same thing was achieved, just doing it by a different method.
I wound the 2nd Layer and when I got to the end, I checked it for shorted turns, and there were none.
I put my DMM on the wires and there was only about 16 mV.
It was time to wet the coil which I did, then I saw the 16 mV begin to rise.
After I damply wet the coil I can see .67mV on the DMM, I connect the other DMM and I see .96mA immediately, which is falling quickly and seattels to .82mA the voltage in the meantime is 0 volts.
So yes, this different insulation technique does seem to work, but is a real pain to build.
Next I connected my cro, and I have a wave form, lots of spikes here, but my 10Mhz cro is very old and at the extreme limits of operation so its results will be in question.
Anyway, if I remove the probes, the display disappears, if I short out the copper and Iron wires, the display disappears, I checked if the PWM or it's associated wiring was projecting stray RF energy into the coil, and it wasn't, so I am left with the impression the Stubblefield Coil is beginning to operate only on 2 layers of winds.
All up, I call this experiment a total success, now I'm beginning to wonder if there is a different insulation covering around a wire that will allow moisture to trickle in and do the same job as the cotton covered wire.
Has anyone ever come across a insulation that has microscopic holes in it but is able to be a barrier between different metals but allows moisture to pass, like a membrane.
jim
Jim:
Great to see you post my friend. Hey, using the string method is exactly how I wound both of my NS coils. I did it a little easier way though I think.
I just wound cu/fe bifilar for one layer on top of the core which was covered in cotton cloth. Then, I took cotton string that was the same diameter as my wire and started at one end and "forced" it in between the iron and copper wires. You have to do this twice per layer as you already know. it worked well and made a nice flat linear winding. I only had enough solid wire to make 2 layers 12" long though and, I did not have the aid of your brilliant machine either...ha ha, I wish I did.
Excellent to hear from you Mate.
Bill
It was good to see your pictures of latest coil Jim.
Regarding cotton insulated copper wire; I have taken the liberty of having some custom made by a local manufacturer. Specs are 16ga solid copper wire (bare) covered with water permeable / wound nylon sleeving. The sleeving is a multiple angle weave (dense criss-cross pattern). This sleeving will perform well in this application and will not degrade like the cotton stuff I was playing around with previously. It should also eliminate shorting issues, especially in the event of iron corrosion. I know that this is not supposed to occur but let’s be reasonable, until we figure out how to make this thing run properly, this corrosion does happen. I'll post some pictures of this new wire soon. Cost was $0.10/ft USD, not cheap but not bad either considering it is a premium solution.
I am in process on replacing the cotton insulation layer between winding layers. I will be using a battery grade separator paper from H&V. (I used to work in that industry). Separator paper I will use is same variety found in common alkaline cells. It will provide the following: spacing between windings, water permeability, and a very smooth/uniform surface in which the next winding can be placed on. Furthermore, the separator will not degrade like cotton. I should have some in a week or so.
Note: my material alterations are aimed at improving overall quality of the primary windings. I have been quite dissatisfied with my former windings (semi-wild in nature). I am close to achieving a cross section that looks like the patent illustration. The alternate materials will still function like original design and should make construction more uniform and repeatable in nature. My intent is to make a detailed study of this coil, thus I want the cleanest construction possible; one that doesn’t deviate from the patent, at least operationally.
I am sticking with a crude inner core (probably 1018) solid bar stock. I’m still trying to decide on a diameter and length. I am more concerned with field properties. So whatever diameter gives me the best field with the 16ga wires I am using will win the day. Maybe in the future I would consider alternate core materials or construction aspects but not today, Stubblefield made it work with barn bolts, and so can we.
After this, I will run it a lot differently than most do. I could care less about a secondary winding at this point. The power capability is in the primary so getting this to work is my immediate and only concern. For starters I will test on a bench under ‘simulated’ conditions. This will verify proper conditions required to generate a lot of power (and this primary coil can certainly do this) After that, simulation would have to be removed/replaced with earth based interface (a bit more challenging but I think entirely do-able…)
Keep up the good work Jim. I look forward to seeing how your new coil works for you.
@ MW383,
You have some very interresting things you want to experiment with, winding a coil, I will look forward to these photos, they sound very interresting.
How much of this wire did you order if I may ask, and what size Stubblefield Coil do you intend to make?
This nylon cross weave sounds like the stuff we used to insulate the wire junctions of motor rewinds we did, but is your wire actually going to be fed through a machine and the nylon will be woven around the wire as it is drawn through the machine? Sorry about the questions, I am curious about it.
I'm having great difficulty in getting a particular layer to stop shorting as I move up from the lower level at one of the coil ends, I'm on my 3rd attempt to wind this layer and it's driving me grrrr LOL, so I'm interrested in your paper or cardboard idea on insulating with a broad sheet instead of using a cotton sheet. This just might be the answer for me, but I thing my problem is during the inserting the cotton sheet end under and over a set of wires without making a short circuit in the process.
Maybe I should cut a 1/8 inch notch out of the corner and allow the wire to ride up and over the edge onto the next level will work.
I have secured a 1.5volt battery holder onto the side of the wood disk and attached a light globe to it, the idea is the light globe will switch on the instant a short occurs warning me it just happened so I can instantly stop the winds and redo that wind again or at least take a look at what happened. A buzzer would be a good idea to use also in parallel with the light as an audible warn signal.
It's no fun doing a complete layer and having to undo all that work to fix the short which occurred way back at the other end.
I noticed you have picked up on one of the key points that people need to take note of, and that is to get a successful working Stubblefield Coil replication before going off on a tangent and modifying it out of all proportion, when it 's working, you have a bench mark to fall back on.
Ha ha, the secondary coil, this is the one, but what we need to do is to figure out just how much of a magnetic field we need to make from a coil to get X amount of energy out of another coil immersed inside the magnetic field as it collapses and rebuilds. Frequency, current and voltage is involved, I believe the small coils will operate at a high frequency, as the layers of the bifilar section (primary) are built the frequency will drop and the current is going to rise.
I think the voltage and the current will oscillate between each other as the coil begins to work, then I think there will also be a sweet spot where a secondary will perform the best as it is found by slowly moving the secondary in or out of the bifilar windings by sliding it backward or forwards.
If we look at the patient drawings, the secondary is shown as a completely independent coil on it's own former, I think Stubblefield found if he made his secondary directly over a working bifilar section, he would be in danger of elocution as the turns got above a certain limit, now that wouldn't be too helpful to his health, so it would have been a simple matter of building the secondary away from the bifilar section, then slipping it over that section when he was ready to do so.
Anyway this is all my interpretation on looking at the patient drawings, it makes seance to me.
jim
@all
Power mobs have found another way to jackup the cost of power. I just googled "smart meter in power boxes" and got shocked big time.
It seems Australia along with anyone who uses electric power is to get "smart Electrical Meters" installed with or without their concent. >:( Going by users experience, this jacks up power prices immediately by several hundred dollars each bill..
http://www.collingwood.vic.au/smart-meters-not-so-smart
There is a supposed to be a report "Biolnitiative Report" floating somewhere in this web site here http://www.bioinitiative.org/ which appears to have a very negative writeup about radiation and metering concerns about these new digital electricity meters. :o
Going by the info I have seen, so why are we all locked out of this web site unless we pay?
One bloke in Ausie http://www.standard.net.au/news/local/news/general/one-mans-power-play/1752737.aspx padlocked his meter box to keep the greedy swap from taking place, hooray for him.
http://www.theherald.com.au/news/local/news/general/power-suppliers-shun-smart-meter/1419929.aspx
BTW, the power box on the wall is owned by the house holder, so you can lock the door on it, but cut a small square hole in the door so they can still read the meter or they will dream up phantom meter readings...
Tomorrow I lock my box. :D
Common people, start building your own Stubblefield Coils or dig deeper in your hip pockets.
Jim
QuoteBTW, the power box on the wall is owned by the house holder
Here in the states you own it too but the line side belongs to the power company. If there is no disconnect means and just the meter on the outside, you cant cover the meter. The meter itself would be the disconnect means in case of fire.
The power bill should not be 100's of dollars per bill. Still its just another way for corporations to get that extra dime out of you multiplied by millions.
All the braided wire ive worked with has been tough. Ive had to use a razor knife to strip some as wire strippers didnt work. Kudos on the cotton string. I was wondering how that would work out. Winding your own cotton wire has got to be a pain. I had another thought. If the iron wire is just for the magnetic field I see no reason why it cant be insulated. Interleaving the cotton would then be much easier with the bare copper. This would stop the galvanic action between the copper and iron though. Question is if the galvanic action is needed.
Great work Electric!
Quote from: electricme on October 20, 2010, 10:25:45 PM
How much of this wire did you order if I may ask, and what size Stubblefield Coil do you intend to make?
...but is your wire actually going to be fed through a machine and the nylon will be woven around the wire as it is drawn through the machine?
...so I'm interrested in your paper or cardboard idea on insulating with a broad sheet instead of using a cotton sheet.
I only ordered 250ft of the wire. I want to make sure it works before spending too much $. 250ft cost me $25 by the way. I have to figure out a coil size I can make with just 250ft wire. I am interested in at least 5 winding layers so I need to figure out iron core diameter, length and work from there. It will probably not be very big. That's ok, it will not matter for the purpose of my testing. Obviously these things can be scaled up/down per the patent. Which seems to indicate that there underlying principals at work here, size not being a factor as far as true functionality.
I am using a rope heater manufacturer to do the winding. They run the copper wire through their normal winding process without issue. It is a continuous feed process using many spindles of the nylon thread all rotating at high speed. The various individual threads enter the wire at various angles thus giving the criss-cross pattern. When they make rope heaters, they bake the finished product. I had them skip this process in order to have something water permeable. Iota is right about stripping the insulation, it has to be done with a razor in order to keep things from fraying. I have some real nice nylon fabric tape that will wrap around the stripped end thus keeping it clean. I suppose shrink tubing would also work.
The battery separator paper is a fibrous, porous, water permeable material. Due to its small thickness, it will take several layers. I am still pondering how thick this layer should be. I think it this is a critical design feature. For starters I will probably scale the patent drawing and apply these relationships to my own materials/construction geometry. At any rate, when you multi-layer this separator paper, it becomes quite rigid in nature thus making a fairly solid and uniform surface for the laying of the next winding layer. Look at the first widing layer you make. It is on the hard core surface and it is always near perfect in nature. But my experience with cotton insulator layer was that as I increased my layers, they became bumpy. The cotton wadded up a lot because I was winding the wires as tight as I could. It has never turned out to my satisfaction yet. I aim to cure this. If battery separator paper doesn't work, I have other materials to try. (a bit different in concept)
Iota mentions insulated iron. I may try this and see if there is any penalty. The only one I can think of is that slightly increased insulation distance may slightly decrease what is happening in the copper wire. Just a theory.... Obviously if both copper and iron were of same guage and both insulated, outside diameters would be identical, thus windings super clean in nature. For future fun, I will send some 16ga iron over to my rope heater manufacturer for insulating. Right now I am on the hunt for iron wire that is the same diameter as current copper wire+its insulation. I do not have a solid idea if there is a relationship between the copper and iron wire sizes. My immediate thoughts are that more iron in relation to copper has no adverse effects (magnetic field thinking here).
So I need to do a little figuring and material acquisition yet before I start building. It has been about 1 year since I have wound one. I look forward to getting back into it. My approach will be one of pure testing and documentation of observed results. The test matrix is almost done and quite exhaustive in nature. It will take me a bit of time to get through it all. But since it will be winter soon, and my outdoor farming activities reduced, I should have more time to tinker.
Here is the insulated copper wire I had manufactured. Copper = solid 16ga + bare. Insulation = wound nylon. Is water permeable.
On the left is how it looks when stripped. You can see weave pattern used. It is a bit scrappy looking when stripped. On the right is an end I added shrink tubing to. Is much better.
MW383 do You know the type of nylon? Heres the most common with their saturation levels. Nylon 6/12 absorbs half the moisture of nylon 6.
6 2.7
6/6 2.5
6/10 1.5
6/12 1.3
Iota...I incorrectly described the material. It is fiberglass, not nylon. I apologize for the mistake.
In brief testing, it was found to pass water through it well and hold water well. In fact it acts just like the cotton covered wire I have tried.
The fiberglass should not really degrade when next to oxidized iron wire. My former coil constructions using cotton materials really looked crappy after a bit. Hopefully the new coil I make does not have issues. I'm certain that when this coil has large current running through it, that iron oxidation would be nil, as reported in various NS documentation. But in the mean time, I am just hoping for a coil that doesn't short itself out or bleed current between copper and iron.
@ IotaYodi
I know the pain of stripping insulation off copper wire, I had a few hundred meters to do here so I made this tool up to help me.
Quote from: IotaYodi on October 21, 2010, 10:58:22 AM
All the braided wire ive worked with has been tough. Ive had to use a razor knife to strip some as wire strippers didnt work.
I had a bit of wood laying around , that was about 12 inches long, drilled a hole in the side a fraction larger than the insulated wire I wanted to strip the copper out of.
Then I got a small nail, filed the sharp end to a raser point, then drove it down into the top edge of the wood so the nail point just appeared, you don't need to be seen poking through, you need to adjust the point so it just cuts pierces through the insulation.
If it touches the copper wires then it is too far in, pull some of the nail out.
First off I stripped the outside grey/white covering, then fed the insulated wire into the hole in the side of the wood until it appeared out the other side, put that end in my vice and just held the wooden ends in each hand and walked away from the vice pull the wire through the hole.
The sharp nail did the sest for me, I can strip 30 meters of covered copper wire in 30 seconds.
I then go back to the vice and peal away the insulation where it has been scored. Easy.
jim
3432 = My jig to strip insulation off the copper wires
3430 = The setup I use to monitor for shorted turns while I wind my stubblefield coils
If a short occure, the LIGHT BULB glows, and a BUZZER sounds, the switches turn off a the buzzer or the light. The copper and Iron coils being wound become the defacto switch.
Quote from: MW383 on October 21, 2010, 02:18:08 PM
Here is the insulated copper wire I had manufactured. Copper = solid 16ga + bare. Insulation = wound nylon. Is water permeable.
On the left is how it looks when stripped. You can see weave pattern used.
I will be very interested in how the nylon works as compaired to cotton.
I have had thoughts that some new type material might be better as I think,
the cotton would rot in the ground in a couple years. that might be why NS said to make it so it can come apart for reworking.
By the way that weave pattern looks to be a good if not better than, a wound pattern.
Who did it for you and what was the cost. (If you don't mind me asking)
Contact details Please.
FrznWtr
MW383
That photo of the fiberglass covered copper wire is a beauty, I like the idea that fibreglass holds water like the cotton does, what is particually interresting to me is the cotton will disintergrate long before the fiberglass would, this would enable the coil to out live cotton wound coils.
I know that any with any original Stubblefield Coil, the cotton will fall apart if the turns were disturbed in any way, I found this hapenning when I pulled apart my old coil (not a stubblefield coil) about 6 months ago.
Thanks for shareing the cost of the wire you had made, I have a question, if you look directly down on top of the crossectional view of the wovwn wire, can you see an air gap between the bare copper and the inside of the woven fiberglass?
Now I have to go outside and unwind by hand 7 strands (25 meters long) of 0.90 bare copper wire and wind them onto a spool that should take a couple of hours.:).
jim
Regarding the apparent gap between fiberglass insulation and copper.... It really isn't there, insulation is in tight contact with copper. Only when you strip an end, does fiberglass get loose and look like it does in picture. The heat shrink on ends keeps things from fraying and lends to overall neat appearance.
My initial cost for 250ft sample was $25 US. Not exactly cheap but again, this stuff is so much better then the cotton I was dinking with last year that I feel it is well worth it. Larger quantities would obviously drive cost down. I have not had large quantities quoted as of yet. The whole thing happened by accident by the way. I was visiting the rope element manufacturing plant on matters of business, got a tour, and became immediately interested in their fiberglass winding process. As it turns out, the same process worked very well when applied to bare copper wire.
I talked to my contact back in the battery industry yesterday. The separator paper sample is on its way to me. I will provide its exact properties when I recieve the sample and associated spec sheet. But it is fundamentally a material used in alkaline cells. It is obviously water permeable (w/ good wicking ability) but is made of synthetic materials and will perform excellent in this coil without degradation.
I am also hoping to get the iron wire today during lunch. I should be able to start building in about a week. I look forward to it because I know the construction will be better than all of my former efforts and hold up well for all of the testing I will throw at it. The coils I built last year are now rusted, cotton rotted, shorted out heaps. I hope to prevent the rotted/shorted issues with my new materials.
@Electric
Nice idea on the shorting.
Well the fiberglass is definitely cheaper than nylon. Do you know the exact makeup? It will be interesting to see what happens with this.
@MW383,
Thanks for the info for "any apparent gaps between side of copper wire and insulator".
Now, would you please let me know if the diameter differs between the cotton insulated wire and the Fiberglass woven insulated wire.
My reasons for asking were if the woven fiberglass insulation diameter is smaller than the wound on cotton, then this will relate to being able to add a couple of extra turns of bifiler wires onto the former itself.
This also depends on the length of the Stubblefield Coil former spool, the longer it is the more "extra" turns could be applied.
It would also become more compact, which will up the energy output.
Same thing would happen if we used square Copper and Iron wire profiles, , the square shape adds a little metal to the geometry of the wire, more metal = more energy because the magnetic field would be slightly denser, besides it would also wind on neater.
This is all something to be done later if we can get the items, but it is worth keeping in mind.
Unfortunatly I haven't been keeping a record of my turns or length of a single turn, so I had better start this, it's a bit late, sorry people.
End of the 7th layer, Output Dry= 0.27volts wet= 0.71volts WL= 90mm
Beginning my 8th layer shortly, I need to recharge the short warning battery first.
During the 8th layer I need to add another length of copper and iron wire, I will just lay one wire beside the other wire and solder them, we will see how this works out, I think it should be OK.
I am using dressmaking and Auto Electrical field coils "cotton tape" to insulate between wire layers, I havent had any problems so far with either of these materials.
jim
Hi Jim ......after 7 layers you say ....dry .27 volts .....wet .71 volts...WL=90mm...is WL wire length?...I've been following this thread ,..it seems postes get added in after I've already read the previous pages. might be my puter or maybe the site....I wound 18" of normal house wire (the bare ground out of 14-2)....2" covered in cotton ,cotton covered with aluminum foil.....1" left bare.....3" in total length....wound 6 pieces like this 3x6=18....connected 1" bare to next 2" alu. in series ...read 3.03volts....in a straight line ....wound it around a pen to make it coil shaped ,...took out the pen ....last readings were 3.85volts ....been slowly going up....note I wetted cotton with salt water before I wound them.....can you give dimensions on your coil?...mine don't even have a core .......shylo
Quote from: electricme on October 22, 2010, 07:12:12 PM
Now, would you please let me know if the diameter differs between the cotton insulated wire and the Fiberglass woven insulated wire.
Jim, wire is 16ga which should be .050", i measured and it was more like .048". With the fiberglass insulation, outside diameter is near .060".
I will have to find the leftover cotton wire from last year's experiments and measure. I'm thinking that is is nearly the same as my new fiberglass insulated wire.
I pounded on my spreadsheet for coil calculations and am close to a design that uses all of my 250ft copper-fiberglass wire. I am well aware of various standard induction coil design aspects/ratios. I also did a geometric study of NS patent drawings and if drawing is to be believed, it's various ratios differ significantly from accepted 'copper only' coil dimensions/ratios. I cannot go to the bank with the scaling of 100+ year old patent drawings so I have to think about the iron wire aspects in regards to overall coil geometry. At the moment, I am leaning on a core diameter of 0.437". Core length = about 12". Actual winding length 9.6". Thus winding length / core length = about 0.8, # layers = 6. Copper wire diameter (w/ insulation) = 0.060". Insulation thickness between layers about 0.020". Total primary winding OD about 1.397. Core diameter / primary OD = about .31. NOTE: these are general parameters for copper only induction coil. I need to reflect on potential changes due to presence of iron windings. Maybe I'll have clearer thoughts by tomorrow morning. I know the NS is a different animal but still need to compute the possibilities. The iron adjacent to the copper is a really big deal and not accidentally specified. I need to compute this further. If no revealations, I'll build it with these parameters and hope for the best.
btw... once coil is built, I will force feed it with various electrical inputs. it will be smashed and bashed and observed of course. I'll try every theory presented in the 250+ forum pages here, especially Tishatang's. But many others too. I'm not so concerned with straight up induction aspects but will still try them for documentation's sake. I am not so concerned with electrochemical aspects either but will of course document whateve I observe. No, I'll be beating this thing in very different modes of operation. A bit in the mode of 'reflections', the jibberish appearing on the back of one of NS's papers. The primary is quite rugged in its construction, I say beat the hell out of it with various inputs and see what happens. What do we have to lose?
Best wishes... MW
@shylo,
WL = 90mm this is the single turn length of wire, by doing it this way I can put the measurement into a software program I made and it will tell me the total length of wire I used on just that layer, eventually it will tell me all the turns on the coil and length of wire consumed.
One day I will get around to modifying it to work out weight of copper and Iron used.
Could you please draw your coil and post it here, I'm having difficulties understanding how you made it.
There are just a few more posts made since you last read the forum. I have a couple more to post myself after this one.
jim
@MW383,
Quote from: MW383 on October 22, 2010, 11:23:24 PM
Jim, wire is 16ga which should be .050", i measured and it was more like .048". With the fiberglass insulation, outside diameter is near .060".
I will force feed it with various electrical inputs. it will be smashed and bashed and observed of course. I'll try every theory presented in the 250+ forum pages here, especially Tishatang's. But many others too.
I say beat the hell out of it with various inputs and see what happens. What do we have to lose?
Best wishes... MW
Thank's for the wire sizes, I think it will be 0.48 thats tiny isn't it, well lets see what it will produce when made, yep, give it a hideing, thats the way, flogg it to death.
A half inch X 12 in core should be OK, BTW, I recomend you make a winder for it, my MKII machine here is working sooooo good now, I'm really pleased I made it, but it is for some one else.
Tishatang has some really good info, I did a lot of listening to him when he was in China, he has a lot of excellent ideas and is keen to help people.
jim
@ALL,
;D ;D ;D Good news I've done it at last. ;D ;D ;D
At long last, my Stubblefield Coil is putting out some juice, first of all, it showed only tiny mvolts, then it was able to move the pointer on my big analog meter that I use for measuring Earth voltages, now I can light a Joule Thief.
Take a look at the below JPG. The NS coil isn't putting out as much as Lasersabers because it needs more wire on it, but it won't take me long to do this now.
Remember, this is NOT the output from a secondary coil as I haven't made one yet.
All I have done is make in a similar manner to Lasersabers coil.
I'm taking the output from the Copper wire (+) and the Negative (-) of the bifiler wires and driving the JT with this, the second JT isn't lit, (but I saw it light up for a couple of seconds).
To do a double blind test on this, I took a electrolytic capacitor, drained it of any residual voltage, charged it via the Stubblefield Coil, then connected the Joule Thief to the capacitor.
The cap lit the Joule Thief for about 1 second, so yes, this is indeed working. Yipee.
The coil incerases its voltage and current every time I wind another layer onto the coil, but the last layers it seems to be not so much, but the mA are getting better, but it seems the current will overtake the output voltage soon.
To me, the coil needs more wire layers which will give more output.
It's a wonderful feeling to see this working after all the years we have all been working on this thing.
The output is straight DC at this point in time, it may change later on though as I wind on more Copper and Iron wire, this seems to be the way to go with it, I imagine at one point this coil will begin to oscillate by itself, if and when this happens, we get the power out of secondaries from the collapsing magnetic fields.
jim
Layer Dry Wet single coil Turns Current
7 0.27v 0.50v 95mm 46 0.? because I 4 got it :-[
8 0.30v 0.71v 100mm 44 0.? ditto
9 0.68v 0.74v 105mm 43 8.16mA rose to 29mA drop to 24.6mA
3445 = The Joule Thief LED being lit up, the unlit LED on the 2nd Jule Thief (which is sharing the current) is working, the resistor seems to have gone "high" and will need to be replaced, I bridged the resistor with a wire link and it worked OK.
3448 = Here is my meter connected while the Joule Thief is being lit, there is 0.37 mVolts still coming out of the coil while the coil is driving a load. ;)
jim
Congratulations!!!!
Thank you Jesus,
I'm about to wind another layer on this Stubblefield Cell.
jim
@all
My coil crashed, :o it developed a short deep in it's insides, found the problem 5 layers down :D.
A short developed directly around where I had made two copper wires join together, so now I need to repair this and wind it all back together.
I will try heat shrink and see if that will work OK.
Motto to be learnt, only use a single unbroken length of wire if it is at all possible, thats both wires, copper and Iron.
There is copper and iron wire and cotton string all over my floor right now lol.
jim
@electricme
You also can use sand paper and sand with it the corners of the wires before soldering them after inserting the shrink tube.
What I mean is to make perfectly round the wires end. It will not have the cutting corners.
Another thing is to round the sharp edges of the solder too.
Jesus
Jim, Sorry to hear about the short. We have all been there at one point or another. Glad you found it and are making repairs. When it ran, your voltage was close to theoretical 0.78V so this is good. Alloys in the materials will drag the number down a bit, so .71V is good in my opinion.
I'm still waiting for my separator paper. Maybe this week. I have also convinced myself to have some iron wire covered in the fiberglass. This will add a week to my materials gathering process but I can live with that.
I'll be hitting my spreadsheet again and maybe retune overall coil geometry to allow more layers. I'll try staying with (core dia / total coil dia) ratio of .3 if I can. Core length will be shortened thus winding length also shortened; I'll keep at 0.8 ratio.
Good luck with your rebuild!
To Jim and anyone else interested...sorry I don't know how to draw on puter,..so I'll describe best I can ....I found so far the best results are...I stripped an extension cord ,that said 15awg on the plastic coating...ended up with stranded wire ,uninsulated I assume...cut a 3 inch length....cover 1&1/2 inches with cotton ,..I use old t-shirt,...cover the cotton with aluminum foil....so I have 3" of stranded wire covered ~1/2 -2/3 with cotton ,that wrapped with foil...leaving cotton sticking out both ends~1/16...make sure foil dosen"t touch copper ...also cotton is dampened with salt water not drenched...voltage reads .62 put six of these in series will light an led no problem four will light it, but dimmely.....just seems to be alot less material required .....still more experiments yet.....shylo
Hey All
A question. With which ever conducting materials tried, using dry cotton, has there been any long term testing, where the battery has be disassembled to check for any issues with the surfaces of the conductors, as in discoloration, signs of corrosion, as in what might happen in a normal battery.
Also, has anyone tried this in a vacuum? As in, is it the air that acts as the electrolyte for sure? Or how about under high pressure? Different gasses? Fiberglass instead of cotton? Hey, carbon fiber as an electrode!
Just thoughts
Mags
@all: I looked for the address for the fiberglass covered wire, but I didn't see it. Did I miss it somewhere?
@electricme: Congratulations on the coil....even if it did short. I know you will get it going again, and will make it even better! Are you getting tired of winding yet? ;)
Sorry for the late replies to everyones questions and those offering helpful suggestins I got over whelmed with things here which needed my urgent attention. ;)
@ Jesus,
Thank you for those tips on knocking off the sharp bits of solder, I have some heat shrink tubing here and will use it this time without fail. :D
I did a little research on how to join two steel wires, I need to use a silvering solder technique, huh, I ain't got the flux or silver solder, gonna doa bit of thinking about this one.
@MW383,
Thank you also for the figures on the voltages, I wasn't aware just what I could get from it, so what I was getting indicates it was a good output, I noticed the output in mA was getting higher every time I wound the layers, this tells me the coil is a magnetic device, it's a 6th sense feeling I have.
I am wondering if you can let me know the contact details on this special woven wire you had made for you, any chance of this please?
I hope your separator paper turns out to be the good stuff, cotton tape is what I am using right now, but when I saw the rust markings on my coil after just a few days it surprised me no end, but Lasersaber says his coils rusted up but still are working hmmmm.
@Magluvin,
Many of the older posters here have pulled their coils apart after they had been lying in the ground, or left on table tops, in most cases they all found them with rust, but it would be better for them to answer.
No one tried testing that I know of in a vacuum, the electrolyte is the water, look at Lasersabers videos, it shows voltage rising as he squirts water over the cotton.
I found the same thing occurring with my coil to. the voltage rises as it gets damp.
On a humid day I expect the coil to put out energy longer, buried in the earth, where it is constantly damp, it will work all the time it is buried.
Don't know about pressure, could be interresting experiment with the vacuum as well.
@ Protonmom,
Long time no see, welcome back to the forum of discoveries lol.
I also looked for the address, I think MW383 has the details where to get the fiberglass covered wire, he might be on to a breakthrough with using a new replacement material for the Stubblefield Coil, and good for him for thinking outside the square.
Thanks for the congrats, yes I'm tired of unwinding but will have to keep going.
I just had a brain wave, could a stainless steel wire be used in replacement of the steel or iron wire, it would almost banish the rust problem. There are different grades of stainless, the feed grade might be the best one.
It's almost midnight, so as I'm tired out I'm off to bed
jim
QuoteI did a little research on how to join two steel wires, I need to use a silvering solder technique, huh, I ain't got the flux or silver solder, gonna doa bit of thinking about this one.
This is where real problems can happen. I had my long term test motor running along just fine. It ran for over 110 days nonstop with no added water. When it did slow down I believe it was because it had a failure at the connection point where the two pieces of steel wires connected. I used two rolls of steel wire on that coil and the point where the two connected has always a trouble spot in the back of my mind. This is the second time I have had this happen on a NS coil. I will never again use multiple pieces of wire in a coil. I may do a video of a coil dissection on this coil so that we can all see what the inner wires look like after well over 100 days of constant running.
I just finished a new NS coil, it is very large and uses about 10 pounds of 16# wire. I used continuous wires with no connections. It is an amazing coil and works really well. I will feature it in a video soon.
I have also been doing a lot of non galvanic tests. I have had some really encouraging results.
Test 1:
I have wound coils with copper cores and copper wires no iron wire at all. I have found that it is possible to get voltage and mA simply using copper alone. You need to use dissimilar diameter copper wires. This effect works in the ground and out of the ground.
Test 2:
I have also found that a NS coil works using enamel covered copper wire and iron wire in a dry state. I will admit that I am now very interested in building a Faraday cage to do further tests with this non galvanic NS coil.
Test 3:
On a slightly different track I also made a replication of Daniel McFarland Cook's coils and got them working in a super efficient motor design. I ran the motor for over ten days on discharged super capacitors alone. I then dead shorted the capacitors for over 24 hours and started the motor run test again. It started running with the capacitors showing 12 millivolts while under load running the motor. After another couple days the motor was still running at the same millivolt levels. I think this is working on the self charge effect these large capacitors seem to display. I know that it will work very well connected to a regular NS coil. NS coils behave very much like super capacitors.
I really need to make some new videos showing and better explaining some of these effects. I will build a Faraday cage and do more tests.
@ Lasersaber,
Thank you for you thoughts on the problems you have been having with your coils, well done. :)
Unfortunately I'm not in a position to get my hands on kilometers of iron wire in one length, but I will be looking for it.
If I had a gas axe, then it would be a simple matter to heat the two ends to join them, ha ha.
Yes, I encourage you to do a video on your coil pull down, may I suggest you make some arrangement to take up the wire on empty rolls as you do the procedure, I found the wire on my coil had a spring effect, it would rotate or unwind around the circumference if I accidentally slackened off the tension as I tried unwinding the coil.
In the end I just had to let the iron wire go on my kitchen floor. 8)
What turns remaining on my coil is putting out energy, not too much though, it is all DC, copper is Positave, Steel is Negative
The best thing I ever did was to make a shorted turns tester and mount that on the side of the coil, to warn me if and when shorts occur during winding, I am soooo pleased I did, that saved me an awful lot of grief.
You have some good ideas, keep them flowing, people will be able to help with replications. :D
With your copper and copper coil, which size wire favors the positive side?
You have done a excellent job making Parts 1 to 5 on How to build a stubblefield coil.
Do you still make your coils by hand or use a machine to wind them?
Well done Lasersaber.
jim
@electricme and @lasersaber
Keep your good work going!
Jesus
Quotecould a stainless steel wire be used in replacement of the steel or iron wire
Not a very high iron content. Off hand I would say no.
You can buy uninsulated butt connectors from magnet wire size to service entry size. A bag of 25 of Awg 16 to 12 sizes is about $4.00 us. When crimped right there hard to pull off.
I wouldn't mind trying the fiberglass. Seeing how the company that is making it for Mw is in the business of just making heater cords they may not want to do it on a larger scale. I think quite a few here would like to try it though. Mw would have to check that out. Im going to wait on that until I see some numbers from Mw.
@ Protonmom: Glad to see we havent lost you! :)
An observation and question. The magnetic field of the core runs north and south which puts the field perpendicular or 90 deg to the copper and iron windings. What affect would there be if you coiled the "insulated" iron wire around the copper wire then wind that on the core? The iron magnetic field would be going north and south along with the core in this manner. I would think there would be more amps produced this way.
Anyone have any insights or knowledge on this?
Quote from: lasersaber on October 25, 2010, 11:41:49 AM
I have also been doing a lot of non galvanic tests. I have had some really encouraging results.
Test 1:
I have wound coils with copper cores and copper wires no iron wire at all. I have found that it is possible to get voltage and mA simply using copper alone. You need to use dissimilar diameter copper wires. This effect works in the ground and out of the ground.
Test 2:
I have also found that a NS coil works using enamel covered copper wire and iron wire in a dry state. I will admit that I am now very interested in building a Faraday cage to do further tests with this non galvanic NS coil.
laser,
Non-galvonic approach = good for pure research. Is my own approach as well.
Test#1 demonstrates important concept of 'disparity'. It is a NS coil fundamental. (Magnetic disparity) More disparity will be seen with iron and copper but you have clearly demonstrated it can be had with same materials of different size. Again, critical concept in NS coils.
Test#2 further demonstrates that the magnetic field aspect of this coil = fundamental. And perhaps that electrochemistry is not as big of a player as thought.
A few posts back, there was mention of magnetic fields in both copper and iron. The two graphs demonstrated this. A clear disparity. Think hard about this disparity in NS coils and the fact Fe and Cu wires placed right next to each other. In further thinking, I believe the NS coil design is quite flexible as long as certain fundamental relationships/functions maintained. I believe we need to be thinking of field, especially very localized field activity in the windings.
Great stuff laser. I hope others see the value in your experiments. You clearly demonstrated the approach I mentioned in taking a few posts back; fundamental analysis. Every result good/bad is a clue. We just need to test these things forward-backwards-sideways and read the clues. I believe you are on the way. I hope to catch up soon!
Some news about fiberglass covered wire. I explained that others interested in fiberglass insulated copper wire. Their response =
---------------
We would like to avoid having a bunch of small customers that will require the same product. We would prefer if you wouldn't mind being the distributor for the product and that way you can also keep costs down and we can avoid having to set-up as frequent if we can do larger batches instead of one piece here and there.
---------------
So if there is enough interest here, maybe we can pool resources? Those seriously interested would have to agree on a specification and indicate length they would commit to purchase. Everyone would pay same price/foot and be responsible for their own shipping costs. *note, this not a $ thing for me at all. I would just prefer to order, divide up accordingly, and get my money back*
Should this not be an option, I will try hunting down another manufacturer that
everyone can use on their own. In reading laser's last post, I now wonder if this form of wire insulation is even necessary...
QuoteI now wonder if this form of wire insulation is even necessary...
That depends on the numbers. If there better or close to it then it would be much cheaper than the cotton. We need the numbers and materiel's from you though. The 1018 in my opinion is the closest to what Ns had and cheap enough. A lower carbon core with silicone may be better but not necessary.
If your numbers are good on the 1018 Im up for 500 feet to start.
You mentioned the iron wire insulated. Are you buying the iron wire and then having them insulate it?
Quote from: IotaYodi on October 25, 2010, 01:27:18 PM
That depends on the numbers. If there better or close to it then it would be much cheaper than the cotton. We need the numbers and materiel's from you though. The 1018 in my opinion is the closest to what Ns had and cheap enough. A lower carbon core with silicone may be better but not necessary.
If your numbers are good on the 1018 Im up for 500 feet to start.
You mentioned the iron wire insulated. Are you buying the iron wire and then having them insulate it?
1018 is fine. What gauge? I will quote for 500-1000-2500-5000 lengths (manufacturer's lengths)
Interest in copper as well? What gauge? I aready have quote for 16ga. ($/ft) see below.
500 1000 2500 5000
$0.18 $.161 $.148 $.144
I was not charged for copper in my 250ft sample hence difference with above. They had a small leftover spool they used and only yeilded my 250ft 16 ga sample. Above = standard production quote for everything.
Manufacturer reluctant to do another small run for me in iron, hence I will have to order a larger quantity to get. Iron should be cheaper in my opinion.
Basically I need to know gauges of each. Hopefully anyone interested all agree on what gauge will be. I initially chose 16ga as it is easily formed and suited to smaller coil geometries good for testing.
Its dandy insulation and I'm sure everyone would like using it.
here are a couple of pictures of my fiberglass copper wire as recieved. Material = UN16S-BC, basically a bare 16ga uninsulated wire, soft drawn.
In the background, a rope heater from same manufacturer can be seen mounted on a cooking appliance.
Potential iron wire w/ this fiberglass would look identical. It would be ordered at same gauge as copper thus identical dimensions and clean windings.
In poking around McMaster Carr, they seem to have some steel wire. I may be on my own in suppying this to the manufacturer.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#carbon-steel-wire/=9fjuax
Does anyone know much about 'black oxide' coating? Initial research thinks it might work ok. BTW, former constructions I did were with annealed. I hope to never use it again due to its extreme stiffness.
Quote from: MW383 on October 25, 2010, 02:35:40 PM
BTW, former constructions I did were with annealed. I hope to never use it again due to its extreme stiffness.
Does this mean the annealed didn't work?
I was just trying to kick myself for not using the annealed, because I have not been able to get a strong change in magnetic direction and thought it was the soft steel fence wire at fault.
I think you may have saved me some troubled fingers.
thank you,
jeanna
Jeanna,
Annealed did work and worked well in my 1st 2 NS coils. But it was an absolute bear to handle, especially when simultaneously trying to wind with copper. I eventually went to winding just copper onto a layer - covering with cloth - and then winding annealed so that it wedged itself between the coppers. It worked alright but I honestly never want to go back to winding this way. It was a messy way to construct. Another disadvantage was tremendous spring tension present. I had to really be careful in order to keep things pulled tight, otherwise it would unravel itself quite easily. Nope, no more annealed iron for me. :-\
So I'm to the point of fiberglass covering both copper and non-annealed iron, and then winding in a more sane fashion. As stated in prior posts, I'll be using a fairly thick insulation layer of battery separator between the layers. My intent is to keep localized fields between the Fe+Cu wires organized and residing in their own layers. My former wild / unorganized coils were obviously all over the place in regards to any possible field aspects of windings themselves. Maybe being super-tidy will have no effect, but I will at least try and eliminate the possibility.
Laser,
Seeing that you have coils to immediately work with, pulse a DC current into the iron windings only and look for any observable results in the copper. There should be something happening there because of varying field in the iron wire sitting right next to the copper. There are many other offshoot experiments that could be done along these lines. My thought is, the primary can stand alone for heavy power production.
Quote1018 is fine. What gauge? I will quote for 500-1000-2500-5000 lengths (manufacturer's lengths)
Interest in copper as well? What gauge? I aready have quote for 16ga. ($/ft) see below.
The 1018 was in reference to the core and not the iron wire. The 1006 wire at McMasters looks acceptable. The black oxide is mainly for looks and offers little corrosion protection. Still looking for 1018 wire but the 1006 looks much better with its 99.5 to 99.75 % iron and .08% carbon compared to standard fence wire. The 1006 black oxide is $34.20 for 1660 ft. for 16 gauge. Personally I dont want to use zinc coatings and its more expensive anyway.
MW I assume the price quotes are for the fiberglass insulated copper wire. Is 500 ft the minimum run they want to do with both the copper and iron? Im checking out another steel wire company tomorrow for 1018 iron wire. Meanwhile can you get a price on the .048 1006 iron wire for insulation at 1660 ft. Maybe we can work something out here.
QuoteI'll be using a fairly thick insulation layer of battery separator between the layers.My intent is to keep localized fields between the Fe+Cu wires organized and residing in their own layers.
Interesting thought. Not familiar with the battery separators. Are they high dielectric and usable on a secondary?
@ IotaYodi,
The bag of butts is a great idea, I will look for them. Utilux springs to mind.
Quote from: IotaYodi on October 25, 2010, 12:47:39 PM
Not a very high iron content. Off hand I would say no.
You can buy uninsulated butt connectors from magnet wire size to service entry size. A bag of 25 of Awg 16 to 12 sizes is about $4.00 us. When crimped right there hard to pull off.
The magnetic field of the core runs north and south which puts the field perpendicular or 90 deg to the copper and iron windings. What affect would there be if you coiled the "insulated" iron wire around the copper wire then wind that on the core? The iron magnetic field would be going north and south along with the core in this manner. I would think there would be more amps produced this way.
Anyone have any insights or knowledge on this?
Your proposed question on the magnetic field is very interresting if it could be done, I'm not saying it can't, it would be difficult.
Is this what you mean, winding the iron wire so it's length lies in line with the lines of magnetism which flows from pole to pole, as I have draw it below?
jim
3470 = The stubblefield long bolt end to end with the magnetic lines of force flowing from end to end but all around it.
3480 = Showing 1 single turn of a single strand of copper wire (a loop) with many turns around this loop made of iron or steel wire.
The lines of force passing through the horizontal turns of iron wire.
I can imagine hundreds of loops all in a single strand of copper wire.
Instead of a bifilar wind it would be a loopy wind, is there another word to describe this procedure?
A bit like a guitar base string wound around the iron bolt, the copper wire would have to be insulated first though, oh boy when we think this coil is nailed another version comes along.
Please remember, we need to get a original working coil to compair the different coils against.
Rejoining a steel wire to another steel wire.
This afternoon I decided to once again tackle my steel wires by joining them up into a long single coil before I begin the rewind process. There is 7 x 50 meter length reels to join.
Using what materials I have here and knowing what to do after reading up about this I learned I need a very hot soldering iron, but I realised I needed something to hold the two steel wires together while I joined them, so I used very fine copper wire.
I brightened both ends by using steel wool, then overlapped each end against the other about 3/4 of an inch. Then I wound the fine copper wire around the length of the joint.
Grabbed the soldering iron and put it to full heat, she was hot hot hot, then fed solder onto the hot steel wire over and on top of the copper turns. The trick is to not allow the solder to flow onto the iron's hot tip, only directly onto the steel wire.
The solder flowed quite well, I was quite pleased with the results, then I filed any sharp bits down with a file until smooth, moved the heatshrink over the joint and shrunk it down, the whole join looks a bit big. I can live with it as this is a research coil, the answers it gives to questions will be invaluable, if it works for a couple of weeks, this will give me time to experiment with it and learn from it.
If it fails then I can learn from it to, in fact I already have.
jim
3481 = The steel wires soldered
3482 = Heat shrinked, it's a bit bulky, carn't be helped though.
Jim:
Looks like a good joint to me. Did you by chance check the resistance of the 2 wires joined before your joint that you made? I am not saying it will make any difference....probably not but, this thought just occurred to me after reading your post.
You can braze the steel wire together but, this requires that you heat them to "cherry" red which will take more than a propane torch. We used to mount our ultrasonic drills in this manner. I used acetylene (no oxygen) for this to get the heat required.
I really admire your ability to keep going after a short. I still have a Jeanna circuit in my bin that had a short somewhere and I have still not messed with it. God only knows where the short is and I did/do not have the patience to find out.
Great work Mate.
Bill
Quote from: IotaYodi on October 25, 2010, 09:45:16 PM
The 1006 wire at McMasters looks acceptable. ......but the 1006 looks much better with its 99.5 to 99.75 % iron and .08% carbon compared to standard fence wire. The 1006 black oxide is $34.20 for 1660 ft. for 16 gauge. Personally I dont want to use zinc coatings and its more expensive anyway.
MW I assume the price quotes are for the fiberglass insulated copper wire. Is 500 ft the minimum run they want to do with both the copper and iron? Meanwhile can you get a price on the .048 1006 iron wire for insulation at 1660 ft. Maybe we can work something out here.
Interesting thought. Not familiar with the battery separators. Are they high dielectric and usable on a secondary?
OK, I'll order up .048" 1006 and get a quote to have fiberglass insulated.
Understand 1018 for core. Will provide dense field that shouldn't saturate like exotic materials (permolloy, mumetal)
Core should probably be bundled rod configuration for those wanting an upgrade. I see Bedini motors take this apporach.
I agree about not using galvanized anything.
500ft min for both copper and iron is correct.
Battery separators are excellent for use between primary winding layers. I will also use between primary and secondary (probably a lot thicker here). Like the fiberglass wire insulation, the synthetic separator paper will not turn to junk like cotton does over time. There are no dialectric issues. I think you would find it an excellent material for NS coils. I should warn people possibly interested in taking alkaline cells apart to look at this separator paper at this time. Electrolyte in there is 31% KOH (potassium hydroxide). This will eat skin and really damage eyes. The electrolyte can be neutralized with boric acid. I'll post pictures and specs when I recieve so people can get a feel for it without alkaline cell surgury. (safer this way).
MW thanks for the info!
That is correct on the drawing. My thinking was just iron on top of the copper wire. Plus doing the iron wire alone. It would be hard to do without a machine. A bass guitar string machine might be able to do it. A way to keep the coils tight together would be needed. Pvc insulation would work but possibly not with this coil. If its never been done it would be a first. I just dont know the physics behind it but perhaps someone can enlighten us. I guess a short length could be done by hand for experimentation.
Quote to cover 1660ft of supplied iron wire = $97.94.
I was goofing around in SolidWorks and made a few coil models. Here are a couple of pictures. My intent is to wind my coil so that irons and coppers all aligned from cross sectional standpoint. If you look at the gapping on end of the model, you will see what it will take to create alignment. BTW, I plan on individual layers, all wound in same direction. Connections would obviously have to be made on each end. Bedini made mention of this in one of his posts here a while back. There would be many games that could be played from wiring standpoint this way.
I will post a cross sectional view whenever Solidworks decides not to blow up when I create the drawing file. Furthermore, I will build intelligence into the models via MS-EXCEL link. I would be able to input key dimensional data on a coil and Solidworks would generate the models automatically. I'll follow up with complete assembly models and drawings. If I can get solidworks to report wire lengths, I'll get this incorporated.
And here is a cross sectioned model of the coil. This very difficult to work with on my machine, crashes or takes forever. And that is on a brand new Dell cad station w/ i7 cpu, etc... I need to find a less stressful way to model this damn thing.
At any rate, it looks suspiciously like the cross section in the patent. It should be noted that this is bifilar wind (see previous pictures) It should be further noted that dimensionally, each wire is .048" + .012" fiberglass = 0.060" total diameter. So keep this in mind when looking at the wires that appear in direct contact. Both copper and iron therefore insulated. Due to constant computer crashes, I was not able to color code things or model up wire + insulation seperately.
smaller picture shows a bundled iron core stuffed in.
In general, I'm a firm believer that an organized construction will provide solid magnetic field gains via proper localized relationships. Some of my original posts last year hinted at this but now that I look at the 3d models, I am becoming convinced. Thus my interest in insulating both wires so that windings can come out just like my pictures. I still think insulation thickness between layers plays a part in local field games happening here. I guess what I will do is build a simple 2 layer coil having different insulation (battery separator) thickness and see how far I need to get layers away from each other for best results. A magnetic field expert (not me) needs to perform a layout on how things will work in organized coil construction. Opinions welcome on this subject...
Enjoy...
QuoteThis very difficult to work with on my machine, crashes or takes forever. And that is on a brand new Dell cad station w/ i7 cpu,
Doesnt look that intensive. 32 bit or 64 bit Os? A plain background without lighting effects may speed it up. A Plain black coil and size it down may be quicker. Is the i7 the extreme 3.33 with the 12meg l2 cache?
Computer = Dell Precision T1500. 2.8Ghz i7, 4GB RAM, 64bit OS and 64bit Solidworks. I'm not computer expert, just use to run CAD.
So here are some colorized pictures and a little picture of field lines in a coil. I see this representative for the iron windings. Copper would have the same but it will get pounded by the stronger Iron based field. There would be opposition and overall weirdness in my opinion. This assuming both iron and copper running same polarity. Should Tishitang's logic be applied, run copper in one polarity and iron in opposite polarity, now the game gets real interesting. He has various diagrams and texts that talk these theories through. There are other theories out there that are similar. A proper coil construction would enable one to easily test all of them. And that is where I am quickly headed.
Cheers
QuoteCopper would have the same but it will get pounded by the stronger Iron based field. There would be opposition and overall weirdness in my opinion. This assuming both iron and copper running same polarity.
If you took a piece of graph paper and rolled it into a tube it basically shows you how the fields intersect on this coil with iron wire. Thats how Im seeing it.
Not sure if this has been brought up yet, so sorry if a repeat. In looking at patent figures further there can be seen various inconsistencies in the representation of primary windings.
Figure 2 seems to agree with my modern CAD from bottom 2/3 coil standpoint.
Figure 3 quite different from either Figure 2 or modern CAD.
Figure 3 wire ends on one side does not agree with number of winds (assuming one continuous wind in down/up/etc... fashion)
So are figures just figurative then? ???
I have built coils with one wire that went down/up/etc... This is highest resistance way to wind these things. I would tend to think that there are magnetic field implications with this winding method. (scamble winding seems preferred in secondaries but do we want it in primary?) I have produced CAD that indicates all same wind direction that could easily be wired in a parallel fashion (lowest resistance). In fact I have built small coils this way that were indeed stronger in field and electrical output. 4 wires would still exist, 2 per end of coil.
So forget patent drawings...What makes sense to do? Scamble wind multiple layers with single wire OR a more structured approach? From a field standpoint, what makes the most sense? Any opinion welcome....
Perhaps winding method means little, or effects efficiency to a small degree only? I guess I still lean toward having a uniformly structured system.... I am doing more cad that is based on cross sectional view and field lines. Should give a brief view of what is happening in this coil. I studied many magnetic field photographs for different coils and it is quite facinating to see both localized fields as well as global fields in these pictures. Also re-read induction, self induction properties. If I remember right, NS coil described as high self inductive with low resistance. It is obvious this coil has high self induction. Everything packed tight and next to each other, ferrous core present, ferrous windings, etc... We can wire for lower resistance. Maybe that is the extent of what we need to worry about in the primary.
QuoteSo are figures just figurative then?
Yes. They were hand drawn at that time. Plus being copied,scanned,resized can result in distortion. If you notice figure 2 on the patent its not that extreme. You would want symmetrical windings for a uniform field.
Another thing is the self generating electromagnet. The patent states to tie terminals 5&6 together. Others have found that is not the case. Its one inner and one outer wire or a 5 or a 6 to its opposite inner 10. You still need sufficient v/a in order to sustain the self generation.
Seeing how the input current is always the south magnetic pole,and the exit current is always the north magnetic pole,its easy to follow. The patent states that the inner terminals are used for the input. But you can use either the inner or outer wires as the input side and it makes no difference.
Your multiple windings would be hard to do but interesting.
QuoteFrom a field standpoint, what makes the most sense? Any opinion welcome....
With the Iron wires magnetic field a uniform winding to me. If the wires cross Im seeing a distorted magnetic field with more eddy currents.
A few random thoughts....
If we considered the copper and iron windings as seperate coils, and we used Tishitang idea of running them in opposite polarity, and enough power was moving through....I think this could explain the reports of glowing hillsides. Basically you have a localized aurora borealis deal occuring or something like this. Some chap did a large coil where he ran things in this opposition mode and he noted a dim blue glow coming off the coil. I'll have to dig up the info on that. Maybe it is even posted in here someplace but I think he has a webpage. If memory serves, he was running some pretty high power into the coil to get the glowing effect. I'm thinking Tishitang may have it right as far as how to run these coils. If Stubblefield's glowing hills are due to the same effect, then it is further evidence he had a lot of power running through his coils and he was running each in opposition to the other. Lot's of assumptions here so when I have a coil built, I will force feed it power in this manner and see what effects are noted.
What do we know about NS powering devices from the EB? I see mention of lights, motors, etc... That's cool but do we know any specifics or if any conversion was done between EB and a particular device? I am assuming they were all DC. Just curious...
I recall reading somewhere about scalar waves in relation to the NS coil. When I read this I didn't understand it. I have not tangled with this scalar wave subject or know anything about it. All I know is that it is quite contraversial. At any rate, I found some interesting info regarding so called scalar wave antennas.
-----
Scalar antenna examples
1 A single-wire bifiliar scalar antenna is a single coil of wire that is wrapped clockwise for one layer, then wrapped with a counterclockwise layer, reversing the wrap direction for each layer. The magnetic field forces between each layer effectively cancel each other out.
2 A dual-wire bifiliar scalar antenna employs two separate opposing layers of wire that can be powered from two separate power sources, or cross-connected to power both coils in opposition to each other from a single power source, as with the single-wire bifiliar.
3 A pancake bifiliar scalar antenna is a flat disc with paired spirals of overlapping, opposing coils.
4 A cone bifiliar scalar antenna is like the flat ring, but just cone-shaped.
-----
Obviously item #2 matches up with Tishitang's various descriptions of operation + his diagrams. I'm not sure if he based his theories off supposed scalar waves or made the scalar wave connection after his theories but it looks like a clear match to me. Furthermore, Bedini makes mention of connecting wires on the ends (series). Was he wiring like statement #2 above? It would look a lot easier to simply cross connect the coils (Cu connected to Fe) and use single power source than it would to be trying to manage two seperate power sources. In this case I believe there are only two people recommending this method of construction (other than Tishitang's dual supply version.
The guy who ran the heavily powered opposition coil ,mentioned in my last post, seemed to report clearing the clouds above his place. I mention this because, from an agricultural standpoint, there are devices termed as 'radionic'. They also operate on ground energy principals. Their purpose is to increase plant growth in a field. They sell them and many large farming operations (animal grazing based + standard crops) buy them to this day. Bedini also reported extreme plant growth. There are clear reports from farmers using these things that state an increase in rain as well (or more clouds). So you can eliminate clouds around you one way, add them around you another way /get rain out of the deal.
It is also interesting to note that Tesla studied NS coil hard and then came up with pancake versions of it, including the feild cancelling version. Tesla wouldn't think too hard on anything that had no interesting merits. And also interesting is the fact that NS coil can be made to be a standard induction coil, or be made to do all of these other strange things.
QuoteI'm not sure if he based his theories off supposed scalar waves
Nah. His was series resonance. The battery he put in was just to prime the area with the relay/vibrator for resonance. He just made a mistake in the diagram as the relay should be normally open. Once brought into operation the battery is no longer needed.
QuoteTo have this make or break in the patent only makes sense if you are using resonant circuits. The same reason he used high Q winding techniques. These are resonant circuits. Everything points to it.
Even though the iron and copper coils are linked together as a bifilar winding, they can each have different resonant frequencies. The make or break will ring them both. Look back to the Q reference at the beginning of this thread and see the graph. The higher the Q, the longer the ring.
This primes the pump, so to speak, and gets things going into resonance. Then the battery and the relay are no longer needed. You collect your power through the normally closed switch. The pumping action conditions the immediate area. The longer you pump the EB, the bigger your conditioned area will become. You can add a feedback loop to sustain operation. If earth currents shift or weaken, you can prime the pump again to get things going. Once conditioned, it takes less energy to sustain the field. To get it going again might be as easy as sparking the wire as you touch it to connect.
Knowing these principles, you can can design your own version of the patent. It can be bigger or smaller. Smaller means higher frequencies. Bigger means lower frequencies. Normally, the lower frequencies carry more energy. I say start with what you have on hand to prove the principle. Try and use natural insulation materials instead of plastic. Fiberglass and resin are OK for insulation. I have a feeling modern magnet wire is OK as long as the coating is not plastic. Be sure and use the wood ends and cotton wrap between layers of the coils and the core. I will explain why later.
@ Bill,
Quote from: Pirate88179 on October 26, 2010, 03:22:18 AM
Looks like a good joint to me. Did you by chance check the resistance of the 2 wires joined before your joint that you made? I am not saying it will make any difference....probably not but, this thought just occurred to me after reading your post.
Hi Bill,
No, I didn't even think to check the joint, suppose I should of though, allthough on the next coil I make I intend to do what Lasersaber has done, use only continuous single lengths of wire, well, you got to use what you have available at the time and this is a big learning experience for me.
I am on layer 11 but I have noticed something with my coil which I'm rebuilding.
During rewinding, I have noticed the layers in the beginning, from 1 to 5 and 6, did not seem to effect the shorted turn tester weather the layers were wet or dry. However I have noticed a change happening.
I have permanently mounted to one of the coils wooden ends, a shorted turns tester, so when I short the wires being wound onto the coil, the 3v bulb lights, release the wires, the short is removed and the bulb goes out.
I began to do what Lasersaber had done in his videos, as I wound each layer of the completed coil, test for voltage and current
Gradualarly I noticed by about the 6-7 layers and more, the bulb began to light until by the beginning of the 11th layer, it was quite bright.
I was beginning to think there was another short somewhere, so I stopped the coil winding. The coil began to dry out and the bulb began to dim during the shorted turns test.
The coil is now dry again and when I do a shorted turns test, the bulb behaves like it should, lights only when shorting the wires.
I think if the coil is wet, then the longer the wires are, the lower resistance becomes and it indicates a variable short.
When the coil dries out, then the indicated "short" diminishes until there is no short, so I am under the impression If I continue more layers I should be OK.
I am beginning to think that coil capacitance is also coming into play, I have noticed when I do a shorted turns test, the voltmeter registers 2.5volts across the copper and steel wires, turn off the switch and the voltage remains in the coil but it begins to drop slowly until it reaches the level that is being made by the coil itself.
Once again the drier the coil, the lower the voltage, I expect on a day with high humidity the coil will give a little more output.
This also is reflected in Nathan Stubblefield remarking that the earth is the place to make the coil work, it would save wetting the coil, the earth does this for us automatically.
I expect as I wind on each level of coils, this retaining of voltage is going to increase, in other words it will take longer to diminish back to background levels, this could get interresting.
mA are also rising as each level is completed.
Just thought people might like to know this.
jim
Greetings all. I did not know this was going to be my last post until this morning but here goes. Overunity in a general sense does indeed exist. It has existed since times of antiquity. The concept is much larger than free energy though. It is knowledge. In studies completed in just the past 12 hours, the conduit into this system has been understood. Regarding energy, the conduit is a single principle. The many overunity ideas / methods (of merit) all tap into this exact same principle. Some do it better than others is all. There is one out there that is highly efficient and purified in form and execution. It is well described and there are various forum threads on this site that discuss it. And I looked at this carefully. It is a literal demonstration of a round garden with a tree in the middle with a fruit on the tree. Simple math confirms the case. The question becomes one of association. Associate with the expression 1/3, or associate with the expression of the one in charge of 2/3. So I make my choice at this time and it isn't in favor of 1/3. This means my quest for overunity ends here and on this day. I would rather have the one in charge of the 2/3 give me an apple one day instead of outright taking it on the advice of the 1/3. I choose to no longer be associated with the rebellion. I would encourage anyone reading this to consider these things and do the same thing.
ADMINISTRATOR : PLEASE REMOVE EVERY POST I HAVE MADE (MW383). I WILL ATTEMPT TO MAKE THIS SAME REQUEST FORMALLY THROUGH WEBSITE ADMINISTRATION LINKS.
QuoteI am beginning to think that coil capacitance is also coming into play
It should. Even pvc insulated wires running parallel in close proximity would. The damp cotton may even be more so.
I know you restarted this coil. Whats the length,diameter of core,and core materiel you are using? What size wire? On your eleventh layer approximately how many feet of wire were there?
Nice work Electric!
@MW383,
What happened that you feel you must leave the forum? None of us have the answers....we are all just here to learn. (If anyone SAYS they have all the answers, they are lying.) I hope you change your mind and decide to stay. If someone has insulted you in some way, please try to ignore them. I am not sure why you want to leave, but I hope you will give it another try.
Well Im at a loss Mw. I was hoping for some help and input on the Ns coil. I never cared about finding over unity myself just another power source. I suspect there are other reasons as well on your leaving. Hope things get brighter and better for you!
Frank
@ MW383,
I also am sorry to see you have to leave us, maybe one day we shall see each other again and wish you well in your endeavors. :o
Until then, take care.
jim
@All,
All day I have been writing my software so I can type in what the voltages and mA's that happen during the winds I put on it, it's a pity I didn't have this done before, well never mind. The bottom photo shows an "example" of data
I am between the 15 layer and about to begin the 16th layer on my Stubblefield Coil.
But, first I want to tell you all of what my coil is doing and I am in Stubblefield School, the coil is teaching me things and they are very interesting indeed.
When I began this coil, my mind was open to absorb what ever it wanted to tell me, and it has been doing so, but I haven't been aware of it until now.
With few layers of bifilar windings on the coil former, I can wet each layer with water just as Lasersaber does, and the coil responds with a small voltage and if I test for current, it responds with milliamps, but the voltage goes to 0.
That's OK, no problems, but when I got a few more extra layers wound in the primary it began to react differently.
The shorting turns test started to tell me it had found a short somewhere, but the bulb light was very weak, but after a few more layers, this bulb started to glow brighter.
I began to think Oh oh, another short again, so as I had to do other things here I left the coil winding for a couple of days. During this time the coil dried out, the voltage dropped and then there was none.
I tried the shorting turns test again, and surprise, there is no short.
I checked the shorting turns circuit, yep, it's OK.
It seems the more copper and steel wire I wind on it, the less moisture is required to indicate a short, only when the coil is damp to wet, we all know not to mix power and water, as moisture will cause a short circuit, in this case it is a partial short, and this is what was happening.
I have also noticed that it doesn't take too long before the coil begins to work and put out voltage, I can put a teaspoon of water anywhere on the cotton covering and the coil reacts almost instantly, the more water I put on the coil the more voltage I can get out.
So far the highest I have recorded is 0.78mV
MA is a different story, the voltage still drops, but it doesn't go to 0volts, but the mA begins to rise, and it seems to want to keep going higher and higher.
Eventually things level out, then the water slowly evaporates and the energy in the coil lowers.
Now, I can drive a LED via Joule Thief, last night it was extremely bright, so for a few hours I had free electrical light.
It's a start in the right direction.
There will be those who will say its the consumption of the metals and water, I say so what, go drive your petrol car.
Another thing I have noticed, is the magnetic field of the Stubblefield Coil.
This coil seems to put out a strange magnetic field, you add water to the cell and the field begins to grow, its not pulsing, just there, I can see it's reaction to my compas when it is about 14 inches away from the coil. As I move towards the coil the reaction is more pronounced.
If I put a Neo magnet anywhere near the coil it has no effect on the Stubblefield Coil that I can see, the output from the bifilar wires do not alter, there is no waveform on the CRO, maybe there is something there but at a level way above 10Mhz which is my cros limit.
There is another thing that is happening, the Stubblefield Coil seems it can behave like a battery, but a very leaky battery at that, a bit like a capacitor too.
I can "charge" the coil with 2.50volts using mt shorting turns tester, switch it off and the DMM tells me the coil has accepted a "tiny charge" but it flows away, but as I wind on the coil more layers, this flowing away effect is lessened by each layer.
This also depends on the amount of moisture in the coils, this thing is talking to me, and it's an interresting conversation indeed.
I have also noticed an other effect, have mentioned this to two others, is the Stubblefield Coil being influenced by the local gravity fields? Well, if I put a Neo magnet on the coil, there is no reaction from it.
If I wiggle the magnet very fast backwards and forewards across the coils turns, there still is no change that I can detect from the coil, the DMM readings remain rock solid. If I put the neo magnet at either iron bolt end, theres still no change at all.
I am beginning to think the Stubblefield maybe a gravity powered generator device, but I may be wrong too.
I was reading somewhere that when you decide to bury the coil, do a survey in the area with your compas and take note of all readings.
Bury the coil and do the exact survey once a gain.
Then every day do the same survey, from what I am reading, the magnetic field begins to grow while it is in the earth, well it's something we can test later on to see if this happens.
Something else I found out, the coil itself has a North pole and a South pole, the start wires are North, the other end is South. Then sometimes there is a violent flick of the direction the compas needle, as I move it from right to left.
The Copper wire is Positive
The steel wire is the Negative
jim
3508 = close up of my coil turns.
Left to right, Dark line is the Copper wire, then cotton string, then Steel wire, then Cottoon string.
3518 = The Stubblefield Bifilar windings powering a single White LED, it is quite bright, and the coil has about 1/3rd of the turns on it so far.
3521 = My DMM showing the open circuit output of 0.79 volts not 0.78 as I mentioned up above. This is the highest reading I have achieved so far.
3530 = my software in BETA at the moment.
@electricme
You deserve to be successful!!!
Jesus
Nice uniform coil!
QuoteSomething else I found out, the coil itself has a North pole and a South pole, the start wires are North, the other end is South. Then sometimes there is a violent flick of the direction the compas needle, as I move it from right to left.
Was the coil wound clockwise or counter clockwise? Are the start and end wires on the same end of the coil? Need to know this.
QuoteThis coil seems to put out a strange magnetic field, you add water to the cell and the field begins to grow, its not pulsing, just there
This may be from increasing the galvanic currents magnetic field as you add water.
Gravity. This may have already been gone over. The Earths spin by convention creates an electric field east/west,which creates the magnetic North/south. The south appears to be the direction the currents are coming from. Im wondering if the coil should be laid horizontally,or not,to the natural poles of the coil itself to the opposite poles of the earth. Damm curious that your start wires are north.
Very nice work electric!
Hey Jim nice work ....the 2.5v is interesting ....I made 36 little eb's...each puts out .64v .... all 36 hooked in series gave me 22.25v as soon as I hook up my led the volts drop to 2.5v.....18 in series gave 11.06v as soon as I hook up the led the volts drop to 2.5v .Then I made six sets of six in series....hooked the six sets in parralel.....gave me 3.74v...hooked the led dropped to 2.58v....3 sets of six in parrallel,... hooked in series,.. with the other3 sets of six in parrallel...gave me 7.74v ,..hooked the led dropped to 2.6v.....can anybody explain why ...no matter the arrangement once you hook up the led the #'s drop to this ~2.5v ..........thanx for any input ....shylo
Jim:
Incredible work you are doing here Mate! That coil is a monster with all those layers.
You have raised some very interesting questions with your observations. Myself, I can't wait to see it tested in the earth. I think that is where we will see the biggest difference between what galvanic action there may be and what Stubblefield had been talking about back then. I believe it will be pulsed by the earth in some way...telluric currents....gravity waves as you posited, or who knows what source it may be able to tap into.
I don't know if you recall but back with my first small NS coil buried outside, I did some experiments where I hit it with a 9v battery because somewhere Stubblefield spoke of "priming the pump". (Funny that Kapanadze does something very similar) I remember reporting that after just a few seconds of doing this, about 5 different large worms and 3 unidentified bugs came up out of the earth like their ass was on fire.
It was explained to me that folks use this method to get worms for fishing but, in looking back, I don't think that 9 volts would do that. In other words, I think folks that gather worms this way must use some type of step-up transformer (ala Fuji) to get hundreds of volts. So, if I am right about this, what was being output by my very small coil that affected those little creatures in that manner? Was the coil reacting with some waves in the ground that stepped up the output to some crazy level for a few seconds?
Anyway, I just wanted to mention this again because I know a lot more about transformers and stuff now than I did back then.
Jim, when your software is out of beta will it be available for other folks to use? If you need someone to help beta test it, I can give it a go.
Your work here, along with the others, is really moving us forward. Keep it up Mate.
Bill
@ Jesus, IotaYodi, Shylo & Pirate88179.
Thank you all for the acolades, but I'm only 1/3 of the way through the winds.
Got a long way to go, but the coil has been putting out a small amount of DC.
I wet down the coil about 24 hours ago and it is still putting out energy, although as the coil dries out the output drops.
It's been very overcast today, even had some showers, I have noticed the coil has been working longer than normal so humidity plays an important part in alowing it to operate longer.
Stubblefield buried his coils, the ground at his place must have had a certain level of moisture to keep things going for his coils. I find the dry air around here seems to suck the moisture right out of the coil so it's output drops as this happens.
@ Jesus,
Thankyou for you positive remarks, thankyou.
@IotaYodi,
Q1 Looking down onto the top of the coil where the start wires come out of the wooden ends, (left side of image) it is wound clockwize
Q2 Start and End wires, The start and end wires will eventually end up on the same side, as Nathan Stubblefield shows on his patent, my photo shows it different as I have not finished the coil, I wanted to show people what stage I was up to with the winds, and what the inturnal layers actually look like during the winding process.
I have a heep more layers and turns to go yet. When it is completed I will lay it in different configurations and should be able to answer you questions then.
I have had to slow down the motor drive as the diameter of the coil grows, so does the circumference speed.:)
@ shylo
Thankyou also,
You have been very industrous with all your coils, and placing them in Series Parallel will give you workable combinations, I did a similar process with my copper pipe and zinc nail setup I had here last year. It worked for almost a year, then stopped working, it is still outside in the earth, the weeds are covering it, I betta clear them and see how the electrodes are fareing.
@Pirate88179,
Ha ha, I like the place where the worms all popped up out of the ground.
I will try and get a copy of my software to you shortly, but need to send it either by CD or by ISO file, either way you will get one.
The distance you mentioned with your worms, seems to reflect what I am seeing when I pass a compass around this coils magnetic field.
The compass gives me a rough outline where the magnetic field is and it goes out a fair ways from the side of the coil, I took a compass and have mapped the magnetic field, this is a strange beast indeed.
see the JPG
@all.
This coil of mine is displaying both ends of the iron bolt as the north poles, thats right, it's not a typo error.
If you can imagine the coil laying in front of you with the domed head of the central bolt to the left and the threaded end to the right of you.
The winds are between the wooden ends.
The magnetic (N) north pole is at the domed head, I moved the compass around the outside edge of the wooden end, got to the top edge then the compas flips to the (S) south pole, I move the compas to the right parallel along the top row of winds, then abruptly about center, the magnetic field changes back to North (N), I keep moving the compas to the right of the coil and the reach the wooden end, the compas still points to (N) North, I bring the compas around to the side of of the wooden disk to the threaded bolt end and it still points to North (N)
This coil is defying all sensible known magnetic field stuff, well there may be an explination for this, but I carn't come up with one..
The usual outlay is if you have an iron bolt you usually have a (N) and a (S) pole
This Stubblefield coil is displaying a (N) pole at either end of the steel bolt.
The South POLE is to the left side of half of the coil winds, the other half of the coil winds are displaying a (N) North magnetic field, the center of the bolt to the right side is also still a (N) North pole.
I havent a clue to what's hapenning here at all.
jim
At this stage I cannot see any fluxation of the magnetic field, it is static, I think I need to put more winds on this beast :)
@electricme
There is a device that is used to water the plants for weeks automatically when the person is not around to water them. Maybe one of those watering systems can be used to keep the battery's moisture levels.
Another thing is that there was a coil winding posted on this forum a few years back that was doing the same as your coil is doing. It has three poles at the same time.
The thing is that the winding for the three poles was done on purpose to get the three poles.
Jesus
@ Jim:
I always thought we were looking for dipoles and now, you come up with a tripole. This is why I love this forum and the folks on it. Every day reveals a new discovery that might lead who knows where?
God bless all of the experimenters.
Jim, just how many layers are you going to wind down there? To my knowledge, your coil will be the closest to one of NS's coils due to the number of layers on it. Bury that baby and let's see what happens.
Bill
Not surprising the field is split this way. A mirror of the iron core.
The 2 end like poles are interesting. This may come in handy for a different type of build, but heres what may be happening. If your not done winding and are using unbroken winds,then you have 3 coils in proximity. 2 of those are single winds and differ in metals. This may be verified by others with completed Ns coils as to the poles.
You may or may not have stumbled on a way for different types of coil setups with the 3 unlike coils. Those in electronics may figure this out. If the 2 like poles are permanent various experiments could be done.
@ Jesus and Pirate88179
Thank you for your comments, I still haven't added any more layers of winds yet, I have need of cotton tape, and I found some more, on an old electric blanket, the cotton tapes are used to stretch it and tie it down. I will need to hand wash them first then on the line they go to dry out so it may be another day before I continue the build process.
The Joule Thief forum will be pleased to know I have successfully used a half wound Stubblefield Coil to light a Joule Thief with it, the LED was nice and bright, so I left it running and went to bed, Ha Ha, this morning it was out, the coil had dried out, no worries, this was a good test for it.
To those who want to know the dimensions, here they are, but remember, I still haven't completed the coil, it still has a lot more winds it to be added to it.
Bolt length is 10 inches long, mild steel, doomed head
Bolt width is 3/8"
Wood Ends are plywood (7ply) Dia = 4" 1/8"
Inside distance between ends 7" 3/4"
So far this coil has 196 feet of Copper and Steel wire on it, (almost 400 feet combined) and the same length of cotton string.
I am using 19mm wide cotton electrical tape to insulate between layers of winds.
The magnetic field reaches outwards around 2 inches when the coil is dry.
When wet, the magnetic field reaches out almost 15 -18 inches, so my compass needle tells me, that is quite a magnetic field.
I have noticed something else, if I put a Heep of extremely strong magnets anywhere near the coil, nothing happens to the coils magnetic field, or it's output why I asked myself? Are we looking at a different field here? is it a gravity type field, does the Stubblefield coil interact with gravity to get it's energy from it?
I may be wrong also, time will tell.
jim
Dissecting a NS coil after 165 days of operation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRSZcQ5cGAQ
@ Lasersaber,
Thankyou for the Stubblefield Coil Pulldown download link.
I have taken a look, it's well done and very informative.
What really got my attention was your observation about the iron wires appeared to be thinning the deeper you got into the coil, maybe we need to use slightly thicker wires on the first 8-10 layers to combat this effect, until we can workout why it happens, but I suspect it is a galvanic process that is causing this.
Have you measured the distance the magnetic fields reach away from the coils when they are at full output?
I need to buy at least 20 -30 compass (or more) to setup a 360 magnetic field gauge to watch the magnetic fields in actual operation around this coil so I can understand it better. I will be able to see the whole picture in a single glance.
I 'm getting a voltage peak OC of 0.79 volts on my setup.
Very nice pulldown, you did very well explaining this ;).
jim
@all,
I'm going to attempt the 18 layer on my Stubblefield coil shortly, but first an update.
Last night I wound on layers 16 and 17, I wet the coil with close to 60Ml of rain water, and the LED came on, the coil voltage peaked at 0.83 volts, I connected the Joule Thief to the output wires and the LED lit up so bright, 12 hours later it is still lit up and it is still very bright.
Midway through layer 17, the ends appeared on my cotton winding strings, so I simply twisted the new ends of the new balls of string onto the old ends and kept winding. There was very little bunching, in fact the winds looked quite normal in profile.
Meter volt is 0.41v
Looking forward to seeing what happens next.
jim
Hi Jim nice work I notice you are using the JT in conjunction with your coil. My question is can you hook more than one led ,say two in parallel,or two in series,or hook your second JT in the return path to the coil ....not sure if you've treid these different arrangements or not.....would be interesting to know the results..........thanx ....shylo
Someone get a handle on Low Life louiseeverett! What a mentality this is!
Quote from: IotaYodi on November 06, 2010, 10:57:13 AM
Someone get a handle on Low Life louiseeverett! What a mentality this is!
A recent post in
Forum Access Problems had him being deleted in his posts. That 'spambot' should be gone.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3893.new;topicseen#new
hartiberlin did it in Reply #101...
--Lee
@all:
I have been reading through a huge stack of papers which were in a box of goodies I have acquired. Some of the papers are not in too bad of shape, but others have been chewed a bit by mice. On one paper it makes mention of Mallory wire....and then the rest of it is gone on that page. What is Mallory wire? Is it still available? Anyone know? Thanks
QuoteWhat is Mallory wire?
I think all that is high performance wiring harnesses for ignitions for racing cars and sound systems. Mallory has been around for quite awhile. The cores of the wire harnesses are made in different manners for rfi suppression and sparking of the spark plugs. Im not a race fan so Im not familiar with their different products.
The majority of those papers are all about the Stubblefield coil...but the one that mentioned the Mallory wire was a hand-written note...like someone had made a note to himself. I thought maybe he had found a way to use the "Mallory wire" in the Stubb coil. If it is available, and if it is something that would work, I might be interested in getting some. But I cannot find it anywhere online. I have no idea how this guy used it as the mice were hungry that day and devoured the rest of that particular note. Luckily, the rest of the papers are in pretty good shape.
You might try looking for 'high performance ignition wire' they may sell it in bulk to manufacturers...hope that helps.
Regards...
Quote from: protonmom on November 14, 2010, 07:07:49 PM
The majority of those papers are all about the Stubblefield coil...but the one that mentioned the Mallory wire was a hand-written note...like someone had made a note to himself. I thought maybe he had found a way to use the "Mallory wire" in the Stubb coil. If it is available, and if it is something that would work, I might be interested in getting some. But I cannot find it anywhere online. I have no idea how this guy used it as the mice were hungry that day and devoured the rest of that particular note. Luckily, the rest of the papers are in pretty good shape.
Here is a site with some info on plug wires.
http://www.centuryperformance.com/mallory-spark-plug-wires-spg-77.html
QuoteIf it is available, and if it is something that would work, I might be interested in getting some.
These wires are coated and made special. Unless you have a ton of money you wont be able to wind an Ns coil with it or one of any size.
I ordered some 1006 iron wire,about $30 for 960 feet. Ive checked it for remanence with a monitor and a pick up test. I found absolutely no remanence. With my cotton covered wire they told me it would be about 3 weeks to set it up so I hope he comes through. What I cant find is rolls of cotton and I need 500 feet of it. Got samples of cotton twill but twill is virtually non absorbent. Lamp wicking was a bust to get as well as candle wicking. I cant believe you cant find rolls of cotton 3/4 or so inches by the hundred's of yards without a custom order. I dont relish cutting up 500 feet.
Just find the string used to fly kites and give it a try. 1000yds per roll I think.
Jesus
QuoteJust find the string used to fly kites and give it a try
I have some string but really didnt want to use it. Checked my email and the company I got samples from is sending some different samples. So that may be good news as they know what I need now. I still may try the string with another coil. Jim is having pretty good luck with his.
Hi,
Got some news for you all, last night I finished my Stubblefield Coil, just the Bifilar section.
It has been sitting on the floor next to the computer all night and all morning, putting out 0.28 volts and it looks a biggie, heavy, yes.
Haven't got any idea what it weighs just now but will need to find out, and will let everyone know.
This afternoon I decided to use some of the yellow cotton tape to suspend it out side in a shady area protected from rain and sunlight.
I had some spare wire handy so I connected them to the Copper and Iron wires and ran them through to the house where I can keep a better eye on the coils output. The reading was the same outside as when it was in the house.
Later on I had some rain here and the moisture in the air must have seeped into the coil as the voltage rose to 0.32volts, it's not high but shows me it is alive. So it is a humidity sensor as well lol.
Next thing I should do is to give the last layer a final wrap of cotton tape, then dig a hole somewhere after I do a compas survey of the area I want to put it in and try out different coil configuration directions.
Oh yes, I almost forgot, several posts back I made reference to the coil having 2 north poles, well it hasn't, this coil has a North and South pole, but it was the winding jig left hand post that was north magnetised.
I should have removed the coil out of the jig, then measured it, but when there is wires connected to the coil, I didn't want to take the chance of any turns unravelling.
I've also had issues with using a different size cotton tape, I could only buy Polyester Cotton tape, and it is 1 inch wide, I found 1 in wide tape is a pain in the backside to use, so go for the Half Inch cotton tape.
Also, I found the polyester tape lets the copper and iron wire slide, I wanted the friction to hold the wires in place, polyester doesn't give the grip as much as cotton does.
Anyway, here is a photo of the finished Stubblefield Coil.
Enjoy.
jim
3541 = Stubblefield Coil in the winding machine about 3 weeks ago.
3664 = Stubblefield Coil completed the winds, it has 28 layers of winds on it.
3680 = Stubblefield Coil is suspended in its yellow sling, about 3 feet above the concrete.
Is it heavy lol you bet it is.
I will work out the wire lengths and resistances later and let people know.
A very nice looking coil. Thanks for the update on the 2 like poles. You may want to try a layer or two copper secondary before you put it in ground.
Great work Jim!!
Good work @electricme!
Jesus
Jim:
Beautiful man! That thing looks like the real deal from the photos we have seen. I'll bet it weighs a bit. I can't wait to read what happens with it.
Great work my friend.
Bill
@IotaYodi, Jesus and Bill,
Thanks for all the kind remarks, about the coil, it is quite an achievement for me and I am very pleased with it, although, I hope I never have to build it again using a quadfiliar technique.
If anyone has never wound a coil, then I don't recommend they jump in making it this way, it was almost too hard for me, and I have wound hundreds and hundreds of copper coils in the electrical motor repair industry.
But if you have no choice, then at least try, but make a machine to wind the coil, and DON't use 1 inch wide polister cotton tape, the wires tend to want to slip down hill and collect in a heap, use only 1/2 inch flat cotton tape, the wires will "grip" on the cotton tape and stay there a lot easier.
Using coloured cotton tape, by all means I recommend that as the white cotton blends in with white cotton, if you have cotton covered wire, or dye the one or the other cotton, so you can see the turns going on, it's far easier on the eyes.
Caution,
Don't use old worn out cotton sheets or cotton pillow cases or old cotton tape, to insulate between coil layers, the thinner the cotton, the easier it will be for internal short circuits to occur. I had to unwind 5 layers and isn't fun at all, wire was all over my floor.
Iota,
As soon as I knew what took place with my coils North and South poles I posted the info to fix it and glad I found the answer. ON the copper secondary, I won't be winding it on just yet because I want to be sure I can control the coil if it begins to put out current while the turns are going on. Now, I'm working on the assumption that this will happen, but then again, I simply don't know, but I have held the assumption that if this coil begins to put out a pulsing magnetic field (which it isn't just yet) while I am winding any secondary on it, then it stands to reason the secondary is going to absorb the magnetic energy, and I don't want to be touching any secondary wire that has voltage flowing through it.
One thing I know, a thick secondary with 2 or 3 turns can put out enough energy to fry itself on a short circuit, if the magnetic field is intense enough, the same holds true if one was to have many turns on the secondary, in this case the current is the same but the increase in Voltage makes it more lively.
The current capability of the copper wire secondary is capable to allow the amps it is designed to carry as well as the voltage, so the trick is to wind on the coil just enough turns to reach the voltage you want it to put out.
Just wind with thicker copper wire for current capability.
The bigger the coil is, the stronger the magnetic field will become which translates into more power output.
So I guess I'm saying is, we have now reached the stage where we really do need to become more aware of what might happen if we do this or that with the coil.
Jesus,
Have you made a coil yet, I recommend it to you, and you will get a lot of info out of it, this coil is "talking" to me from the day I started on it, in other words I learning from it.
Bill,
How heavy is it? I don't know just yet, I need some scales so when I get them, I Will let you know ASAP lol.
We can just stop here and tap into the electrical energy of a few mA and mVolts and play around to see if we can light up a Joule thief (as I have done) or turn around a disk, some will be satisfied doing this and it all helps us increase our knowledge and the understanding of the Stubblefield Coil, but I want to go further and deeper with this coil, but slowly and carefully.
Lasersaber will be happy to know he has been a huge inspiration to me here, along with others who have been in touch with me via PMs and emails so I thank you all.
jim
Hello all,
I am new to this, however I have read almost every page of the thread, and I am going to build my own NS induction coil... That is as soon as I can source the parts here in Canada.
First off I would like to say that everyone here has done an awesome job of fleshing this out and making it work so far. I think it's awesome that after so many years of being mostly forgotten, that this piece of technology is being re-born.
I was trying to absorb all of the information that has been put forth so far, after taking a couple days to read over it, and well it is kind of overwhelming so I am hoping you will all bear with me on this.
I have had a few thoughts into some things which may or may not be oh help.
First off, the stories about NS making his fields light up like it was day time kind of irked me, because if this was indeed the case there had to be a tremendous amount of power or something being used. I was thinking though, If he was using radiation to the point where it was killing his children, and putting this stuff into the ground, this may be the way he made the ground give off light. Somehow he made all the ground that was irradiated glow by either a magnetic field or some other means. I know that most things that are radioactive at low levels do not actually glow, until they are intensified by some other force. However when that happens they usually stay lit, so it is interesting that he could turn it off as well..... Something to ponder. Also, the account that he died of starvation could have been radiation poisoning, since the food he was eating would have been grown on said land. I am actually a bit surprised he lived as long as he did, given that he would have been ingesting radioactive materials for what sounds like at least a decade or more. It would be interesting to bring a Geiger counter to where his farm was and test the land there. You would probably be able to pinpoint where he put his batteries where it is most intense.
On construction -
I was thinking. there is an optimal level of moisture that the coil needs to do it's thing. Which is why it's buried in the ground, because it's moist. Well, what if when one built the primary, it was moistened and tested when fully wet, to dry. Then one could determine the exact voltage that has the optimal moisture level. At which point it could be moistened again, and then sealed permanently. This way the moisture content would remain the same.
If one did it right, there would be no air to corrode either the steel or oxidize the copper. You could use the core for the secondary as the cover and use plastic end caps. Fuse them together when you have reached optimal voltage and that's that. Wrap all that up and seal it again so that moisture doesn't go in or out. If there were any air to be trapped in between the primary and secondary, one could use nitrogen as an inert filler to avoid any O2 getting in to cause degradation. I was also thinking that this might solve the problem of having to tighten the assembly. As this may be caused by shrinkage and expansion of the cotton as it gets drier and then wet again.
Although being in Canada, and with November reminding me that it gets damn cold outside, I am not sure how the unit freezing would affect it. Does ice carry electrons as well as water? this I am not sure of. It may be that I would have to bury mine below the frost line and not just 3 feet or so.
I would think that at the time NS couldn't have done a lot of this not only because he did not have any way of testing the voltage, nor did he have materials such as plastic or the new rubbers we have today to seal it with. He was limited by the technology of his day.
Also with the leaps and bound in electronics, I am sure we can find a way to make 2 coils bounce off of each other(like in the fake pic) and be timed perfectly, so that as one field was collapsing, the other was building. Use some of the power off one primary to feed the next cycle of the other. I really think that the only way to intensify the field strength generated would be to use 2 in concert with each other and in turn draw power off of both secondaries.
Another thing to think about too, is that the power that was being used back then is very different then today's. The other devices he built, like the heating unit consisting of 2 metal plates for example, could have actually used pulsed dc(or radiation for all we know), and since no one alive today would even know how to do that, it would seem that these things may be lost forever. Too bad he didn't patent that one as well, then we would have some records of it. You would think that in that trunk of his there would be something, but we may never get to read anything inside. He seemed like a very thorough person, so we would have written something about his other later discoveries.
Heating unit -
Sorry, my head is spinning now, new ideas and such...
Since we know he was using irradiated metals, if anyone with experience in radiation could let us know if this would work. If one took 2 metal plates and irradiated them, then hooked them up to a power supply with a pulse running to them, would that create heat? What if the plates were just close enough that there was a flow of electrons with the help of the radioactive ions in the airspace between them, would that be enough to keep it from arcing?
The antenna -
I was thinking, why does the antenna have to join the 5/6 terminals? Why not run wire off the terminals separately and not have them be a closed circuit, say above the surface. Could that catch the difference in potentials from the air? That is just a thought, not even a complete one really.
The same would go for the leads from the other terminals. Could you not just put a box above ground to have the reed switch, and convert the pulsed DC into constant DC in this box. At least this way you for sure know where you buried the thing too, so as not to disturb it.
Since you wouldn't need it to be constantly moistened, the 2 units could be combined in a container and shrink wrapped in plastic so the soil, and other chemicals in the ground couldn't affect the life of it. Although if the copper does loose something, and needs to be tightened from time to time this container would have to be able to be opened.
Anywhoo, my mind has been racing all night(I work midnights) and I have a million things going through my head.
Like I said, I am going to try to build one(or 2), but I will try to find the ferrite core that has been so elusive. I have many friends who are metal fabricators, and I also have access to a cnc plasma cutter if I need it, so even if I found a ferrite rod I could have it machined to be a carriage bolt and have the nut made of the same material.
Before I order the cotton wrapped copper from one of the suppliers in the states I will have a look see and try to find it here. I would think somewhere in Ontario must carry it. Otherwise I will get taxed to the hilt at customs.
I hope I have as much success as many of you have had. I will post info on how my progress is going once I get started. Alas, it's Saturday now and most of the places I have to go are only open during the week.
Stu
@StuartU
First of all, let me welcome to the Stubblefield Coil Forum Stu, and I can see you have taken some time and effort reading up the thread which is great.
I have read your post and must do so again shortly to make some of your suggestions sink in a little, I have only just woken up it's just past 5.00am here, and decided to check my emails.
You make some very valid points, but I suggest when you actually make your first coil that you use the materials that Nathan Stubblefield used in his as he had success.
That being said, yes when you have done that, then swap one material from the original and monitor the changes (if any) from the benchmark coil.
During your first post, you made mention to a double coil diagram, a lot of people have offered their opinions on this, I'm not sure if I have though, but I think the double coil appeared about a year ago or close to it.
From what I can remember it was debunked pretty strongly but I have been making some discoveries of my own coil I have made here and I am beginning to see that if a number of coils were connected in series then the voltage is going to rise.
What I do know is concrete and it is this.
The copper wire puts out constant DC, POSITIVE voltage and the Iron or Steel wire puts out NEGATIVE voltage.
You have mentioned the coil being soaking wet and bone dry and as the moisture departs the coil, the voltage at some point finds a happy medium and the coil will operate at optimum power. This is correct as I have found it to be so.
Sealing the Stubblefield Coil when it reaches that level is going to be the tricky part, I think the only way to find this "sweet" spot will be to do a number of runs as the coil will not perform exactly as expected each time, then select a average best output, then seal that Coil.
But to do this we would need some sort of automatic Data recording device to record to a computer or data logger that we could print out the recordings.
A couple of weeks ago, I came to the conclusion that the coil is not pulsing, its magnetic field is strong and then weak, but it depends on the amount of moisture residing inside the coil at the time, now lets take a look at the series coil you mentioned.
Some of the posters here do have a number of stubblefield coils they have made, (I only have one) but I want those who have two or more to connect them all in series, and monitor the output voltage.
The Milli amps will not change only the voltage.
My coil is putting out 0.12 volts tight now as it is almost bone dry, but if I had made 3 identical coils I would be confidant to say, if I connected them in series, I would get 0.36 volts, remember, my coil is dry.
When I was building my coil I measured up into the 0.70 volts, so lets take this a little further.
If I had 6 Stubblefield Coils all connected in series, then I would get 3 volts (if they were each putting out 0.50 volts) so you can begin to see that there is a big improvement, but miliamps is still in the extremely LOW range.
But what I am saying is, the person who posted that double coil diagram just may have done us all a service here, it fairly shook up this forum when it occurred, but I have been thinking about it for some time and the series connected Stubblefield Coils is beginning to make some sense to me.
Not every connection on the original series double coil diagram was correct, but it was along the right track.
Now looking at one of the photos wayyyyy back we can see a box of stubblefield coils, and theres a heep of wires jumping all over the place within the box area, I have seen rats nests just like this when Auto electricians charge heaps of batteries at the same time, but they do it in series-parallel, so I'm going to say up front here that it is possible to raise the voltage and amperage of a Stubblefield Coil ARRAY.
So how does one do this?
Easy, begin with the first coil, connect the Iron wire to the next Stubblefield Coil, which will be the copper wire, then connect the Iron wire to the next Stubblefield Coil which will be the copper wire, to get more juice out of a series ARRAY, just add in the circuit more Stubblefield Coils.
To get 24 volts, you will need 48 Stubblefield Coils, if you have some way to switch the 24 volts output into a relay coil, then you can get useable power output.
Now if you can pulse a low voltage transformer, say it's input is 24 volts, and it's secondary output is say, 6 volts, then every time the primary voltage is being fed into the transformer is cut, the magnetic field will collapse, then the voltage is reduced in the secondary, but it's current output will be raised, to 4 times the input current level that it took to charge the transformer in the first place.
This can be done by feeding the Positive from the Stubblefield Coil Array into a transistor, at the Collector, the output is taken from the Emitter and fed into the transformer primary, the other wire of the transformer primary is taken back to the Stubblefield Iron or Steel wire, that completes the Primary circuit side.
But we need to feed a pulse train (I suggest a series of square waves with sharp knee points) from the Stubblefield Cell array positive, and feed that into the transistors Base.
The output from the secondary will then be able to make something work, be it charging a battery, lighting a resistance light bulb or a number of things.
Have I done all this? NO, I simply haven't enough Stubblefield Coils, but it makes a lot of sense to me.
Just think of a simple torch, 2 cells puts out light, the more cells you add, the more powerful the torch becomes.
Same principles are involved here.
jim
@electricme,
Good job, Jim.
That is a beautiful looking coil.
I like the idea of cement, too.
Please check the magnetic field changes as Lasersaber did.
If you can get a little pulse when you touch those wires then you have a working coil.
If the polarity never changes then it cannot do any work when the switch connects those wires.
Of course, you know this.
I had a pm conversation with lidmotor when I finished my coil, and he told me that his coil was not very fat when it gave him a magnetic deflection while shorting the wires.
This is what leads to a working device, and mine does not make this magnetic deflection so I think I have a problem or mine is not fat enough. (not enough layers of turns.) Or, my wire is keeping the polarity somehow.
Did you re-watch lidmotor's several stubblefield coil videos?
When added to Lasersaber's this is good evidence that this is the best way to replicate this device. (my opinion)
I wish you all the good luck to get replication No.3 working! :D
@StuartU
Welcome.
Please spend some time watching lasersaber's instructional videos.
he actually teaches us how to make a stubblefield coil on yt.
this will save you a lot.
And, it can be run inside with a little spray bottle, too.
jeanna
@electricme
I have not build a coil yet because it is not shure if it will work and the materials are very expensive here on the island.
At lady @jeanna
Nice to see you are posting again.
Jesus
I would like to ask a couple questions, and it may have been discussed i just couldn't find it when the questions popped in my head. Each layer on NS battery is ran in series right? would that not just increase the voltage? would running each layer in parallel not increase amps? I have tried running experiments to prove or dissprove and my results prove yes. I am just wondering if anyone else has done so? When I ever make it home again I will take some pictures of my octopuse coils and post them. they have never made it into the ground yet, nor have they ever lit up a JT. mostly because I have only just started playing with JT's a couple years ago and my NS coils are a few more years older.
McGiver30:
Your question, each layer of the cell is in series, the answer is NO, because when you wind the coil the same wires are still in an endless fashion.
If you wanted to make a series connected Stubblefield Coil, then wind 2 separate Stubblefield Coils, then connect them in series.
The winding layers do not represent a series wound coil as the wires are continuously being wound.
Running two separate coils in parallel will increase the current output, but make sure you have identically wound coils, turn for turn and made from the same size copper and iron size wires, else the smallest coil will peg back the full output of the coil ARRAY. (Group of cells)
jim
@all,
Just posting a couple of circuits on how to connect the Stubblefield Coils in Series or Parallel.
It's similar to doing the same with ordinary battery cells etc.
3791 = Stubblefield Coils connected in SERIES
3792 = Stubblefield Coils connected in Parallel.
In series, the voltage rises
In parallel, the current increases
If you use a combination of both, the Voltage and Current rises.
jim
electricme, I am sorry I didn't state myself correctly. I was talking for each layer if they were layered from top to bottom then from bottom to top and carry on till your layers are completed or do you continue to run from top to bottom for each layer? If you run each layer wrapped in the same direction, then each layer is in parallel.
@McGiver30
All layers in one coil are working as one single electrolythic pair. No matter, how, in which direction they are wound.
To get series connection, you must isolate one pair from other. When you do this with ordinar isolation materials, you get batteries, that work for short time. Non-isolated coils work much longer. You can get serial-like connection, if coils are buried far enough from each other. For paralel connection distance is not needed, as they all make one large battery.
Regards,
K
I don't mean to sound stupid but from what I gather you say it does not matter how you wind the coils that it all acts as one electro magnet. Then I am just a crack pot with faulty equipment. Thanks for the time to respond.
McGiver30.....I don't think anybody is calling you a crackpot......just trying to give some insight .....the beauty of sites like this is to suggest something ,...that you believe to be true ,might not be what it seems to be........if the meter tells you one thing ,but the math tells you something different............this and other sites are the perfect place to find out why.........I still have'nt found the answer as to why I can have 24 volts.....but won't run a 3 volt motor.............time is better spent trying to resolve , rather than arguing............shylo
@ McGiver30,
I'm sorry you have been upset, but some unforeseen events over the last several days have taken place where I live that have prevented me from getting on line to address your question, so my thanks to the others who answered for me.
You question as I read it was also confusing, well to me anyway, but I will briefly attempt to explain how you wind a Stubblefield Coil.
With the empty former in my machine, I feed the iron wire and the copper wire into the respective predrilled holes in the side of a wooden end, then I holding the two wires so they are flat next to each other, I rotate the coil and the wires wind on nice and neatly.
When I get to the end of the 1st layer, I then use 1/2" cotton tape and wind that as the insulating barrier over the winds I just previously wound.
Next I continue the winds, but they now slowly wind back over the cotton layer I just completed, I get to the end of this second layer, then I wind on a layer of 1/2" cotton cloth, then I start to wind on another layer of wires, and so on and so on until I have built my Stubblefield coil.
When I have finished all the winding, I feed the ends through 2 more separate holes in the wooden end and secure them using terminals.
Yes, all the layers of the Stubblefield Coil are all parallel to each other, but they all are all made from a continuous length of 2 wires, a copper and Iron.
Please don't expect to have a high output from the coil, yet, as all of us on this forum haven't got that far ahead and achieved this, some people reading this haven't even made a Stubblefield Coil, some have made one, others have made 4 or more, we are still experimenting with it and still learning ourselves.
One person is winding one way, another is winding another way, but we are all trying to follow Nathans Patent making our coils.
I think that is the sum of the positions we all currently at.
I hope this is understandable, if not, ask again.
jim
QuoteEach layer on NS battery is ran in series right?
No. You would have to wind one wire first then connect the other wire to it and then finish the wind for series. The copper and iron are running parallel to each other though.
Quoteit does not matter how you wind the coils that it all acts as one electro magnet.
No. The coil can be a voltaic couple or a self sustaining electromagnet. The iron wire is the negative or return for the voltaic couple.
You do bring up a point that may have not been discussed before on cw or ccw windings. I cant remember which direction gives more amps or voltage. Follow this if you will. You can input the voltage from either the beginning or ends of the wires. The beginning wires v/a will travel outward from the core. Inputting the v/a on the ending wires will travel inward to the core in the opposite direction. I suspect the beginning wires would be best but the direction of the windings for the greater voltage or greater amps I dont know. Im still waiting on my cotton wire but when I get it Ill wind my coil ccw as I think most have done cw.
Just a reminder.
Positive to another devices positive is parallel.
Neg to another devices positive is series
Hi all,
So I have got my Plastic for the end caps, My soft iron cores should be here today, although UPS may complain about driving out as far as I am from town...
So in my search so far for wire, all I can see that is readily available in Canada is 7.80/foot. Now I don't know about you guys, but that's a bit steep for me. I have contacted a couple companies in Turkey of all places to see if I can get it much cheaper than that, but they have 50/100 kg minimum orders.
I was thinking of ordering from the company in the UK, but everyone seems to not be able to get one length of wire. If I can get 50 kg all in one wire I am going to do it, since I plan on making lots of these for testing anyway. That's about 22,000 ft of wire in one spool give or take.
As for iron wire, would baling wire do? I live on a farm and that's really handy actually.
Couple of questions though. If I can get thicker wire, say 9AWG or so, would that be better?
There is actually a mfg of ferrite in Etobicoke(none to far for me) so I have asked them for prices on 8 in long 1/2 in dia. bars. We shall see what he says...
QuoteAs for iron wire, would baling wire do? I live on a farm and that's really handy actually.
No. too much carbon. I recommend 1006 black oxide wire. I got a 10 lb 1/16 inch 960 foot roll for $29 US. You can also get it on 5 lb spools at 480 foot for $18 US. The 1/16 inch is close to 14 gauge wire. Zinc is more expensive but you really dont need it. The black oxide is a thinner coating. I have tested the 1006 and found zero remanence. Good soft low carbon iron.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#carbon-steel-wire/=9z19eg
QuoteIf I can get thicker wire, say 9AWG or so, would that be better?
That is some thick wire. Would not be an easy task to wind not to mention the much higher cost and your iron wire should be about the same size. #14 is good for 15 amps. I Have been in contact with a small company called brillmans. I only wanted 500 foot of #14 cotton wire. He said it would take 3 to 4 weeks to set his machine up and buy the wire. The cost of 14 GA 500 feet is $133.50 per 500 feet. He would probably speed this up if more wire was bought. I havent given him any money yet. He said he would contact me. Much cheaper than $7.50 a foot. If you said you wanted a thousand foot or more of #14 gauge he might setup quicker. If so I would go a Thousand foot. Heres his Number. Let me know what he says!
John Brillman
The Brillman Company
Phone Toll Free 888-274-5562
I myself would use wooden end caps for moisture retention. Ive made up a few 5/8" plywood cap ends with my hole saw. I got a new couch and took some oak wood from the old couch and will probably make a few from them.
@all,
Nice work so far, keep it up.
jim
Quote from: IotaYodi on December 02, 2010, 11:36:02 AM
No. too much carbon. I recommend 1006 black oxide wire. I got a 10 lb 1/16 inch 960 foot roll for $29 US. You can also get it on 5 lb spools at 480 foot for $18 US. The 1/16 inch is close to 14 gauge wire. Zinc is more expensive but you really dont need it. The black oxide is a thinner coating. I have tested the 1006 and found zero remanence. Good soft low carbon iron.
I will have a look around for it. Would that be found in the same place, say a farm supply store or should I be looking in a hardware store for it.
[/quote]
I Have been in contact with a small company called brillmans. I only wanted 500 foot of #14 cotton wire. He said it would take 3 to 4 weeks to set his machine up and buy the wire. The cost of 14 GA 500 feet is $133.50 per 500 feet. He would probably speed this up if more wire was bought. I haven't given him any money yet. He said he would contact me. Much cheaper than $7.50 a foot. If you said you wanted a thousand foot or more of #14 gauge he might setup quicker. If so I would go a Thousand foot. Heres his Number. Let me know what he says!
John Brillman
The Brillman Company
Phone Toll Free 888-274-5562
[/quote]
Thank you so much IotaYodi. I have called and placed my order. He said it would be about 3-4 weeks. Same as he told you. He will have to set his machine up at a different setting because he is used to wrapping PVC covered wire.
[/quote]
I myself would use wooden end caps for moisture retention. Ive made up a few 5/8" plywood cap ends with my hole saw. I got a new couch and took some oak wood from the old couch and will probably make a few from them.
[/quote]
I am going to follow Lasersabers video for now. Ultimately I am going to aim for a non-galvanic coil, however for now I will build what I know and then play around with the design.
I have a feeling that the induction coil was built primarily as a sinkhole for stray electrons to go into whilst travelling through the ground, and that is where NS got the majority of his power from. .5 v and no amps is not enough to run heat, lights and motors/wireless transmitters. It's possible that is the reason for the huge flat wire wrapped around the coil that was dissected. There is something we are missing here for sure. One of these days all our tinkering will make it work I am sure of it.
Stu
QuoteI will have a look around for it. Would that be found in the same place, say a farm supply store or should I be looking in a hardware store for it.
Its unlikely either will have the lower carbon needed for less remanence in hardware stores. Most of it is zinc coated also. Ive checked samples of wire from tractor supply and they all had too much remanence. Thats not to say this wire wouldn't work, but you really want wire that isnt subject to permanent magnetization. You want the maximum field collapse that soft low carbon iron can give you. Your common bailing and tie wire has a larger carbon content.
QuoteI have called and placed my order. He said it would be about 3-4 weeks
Excellent!
QuoteI have a feeling that the induction coil was built primarily as a sinkhole for stray electrons to go into whilst travelling through the ground, and that is where NS got the majority of his power from
Actually more than that. Ns stated the most important thing was the location of the Earths telluric currents. There are millions of amps down there. His coils weren't placed just anywhere.
Quotefor the huge flat wire wrapped around the coil that was dissected.
That would be the secondary winding to boost amps. Eventually you will want to do that.
@ All:
Jim (electricme) and I were speaking the other day and, if you look way back on this topic you will see some photos posted by Hans of a box of Stubblefield coils on the front lawn of his farm.
Well, if you look close, you can see a bunch of connecting wires to all of the coils. Jim and I speculated that possibly, some were connected in series to get the volts and the rest were connected in parallel to get the amps.
In other words, NS did NOT just place a single coil in the ground to get his results. There appeared to be about 10 coils or more in that box in the photo. This might be a valuable clue.
Bill
@All,
I made a special trip into town today to but 24 X 3inch X 1/4 inch steel bolts to make a lot of small stubblefield coils, but missed getting there in time by just a few minutes, so it will have to be put on next weeks agenda.
I was woken last night at midnight by hoons doing wheelies on the highway, got back to sleep about 4am woke almost at 10am. Never mind at least I tried.
Looking at the photo, the box with all the coils in it, I think the area where the photo was taken, there is no visible sign of any dirt being disturbed or a hole where a coil might be, so I believe Stubblefield had to have a source of electrical energy and he might have placed all his coils in Series Parallel configuration to achieve this to power a single coil, and have a jumping contactor to make and break the circuit.
A much bigger secondary coil could be powered this way.
Nice talking to you again Bill.
This thread is getting interresting again, lol.
jim
@Bill
I remember seeing a box of caps. Would that be the picture You are referring to? There was another closeup pic of the box of caps but I couldnt find it.
Those are not caps, those are the earth battery coils.
Bill
this is not a good zoom but....
Could be bill but the pic I saw was a close up and it was obviously caps. Ill try to hunt it down.
Well, I am just waiting on the wire now, so while I am waiting I am doing some random searches and came up with this
http://www.stormwise.com/
I'll have to call to see if he is using hard or soft ferrite, but it looks like it may be a source for some long ferrite rods...
Stu
Any thoughts if this may be a viable experiment?
Although we can use the PMH to transform DC into natural AC by running it through the PMH especially with the bar off. Leedskalnin tells us this is how the PMH works as a transformer. By putting two coils on the PMH and applying DC to only one of the coils, the output of the opposite coil is AC (please test this yourself). This is natural AC and it has a unique sensation to the touch.The Perpetual Motion Holder produces AC but its poles do not alternate.
Here Leedskalnin teaches how the alternating currents are made:
This is the way the North and South Pole individual magnets are running out of the coil's wire lengthwise. The reason the North and South pole individual magnets do not run across through the coils' wire as fast as they run in while in the coil is between the U shape magnet, the coil's wire is insulated, there is an air space around every wire and as it is known that the dry air is the best obstruction for the magnets to go through and as you know the coil is well insulated so the damp air does not get in. (Think damp NS coil) It is well known that it is many times easier for the magnets to run in metal than in air, now you see when the magnets run in the wire they hesitate to run out of the wire across the same way as they came in, so more of the new magnets are coming in the crosswise, then they can get out crosswise, so they get pushed out through the wire lengthwise. Now you know how the alternating magnetic currents are made.
* South Pole Individual Magnet ≈ Electron
* North Pole Magnet ≈ Proton
* South Pole Magnet = negative (-)
* North Pole Magnet = positive (+)
http://www.leedskalnin.com/
More thoughts on this. Im seeing a relationship between the telluric currents and the "Natural Ac" of the magnetic current of the pmh. Im still of the mind that the spikes from the telluric currents are running into the abundance of varied radioactive materiel's and metals in the Earth. If a scope shot could be done on the Pmh ac coil I would think the wave form would be uniform. It was stated that the Pmh ac coils magnetic polarity did not reverse. But at any given point I would think both north and south magnetic poles of each individual magnet pass the point as it flows through. It just doesnt do a total reversal in the path as a whole.
Added another wiring scheme.
Jeanna,
Thank you for your latest comment on this thread.
I will say one thing to all of you working to replicate LaserSaber's Motor and his effects. I have done all this when I put up my pages on Stubblefield. My tip to all of you is to do it exactly the way he is showing to do it, do not try to second guess him as he is right on in what he is doing. I have spent two weeks reading everything here. I just wanted to see what is going on in my field as I started back in the 70's with my experiments in hidden energy, not really hidden if you understand what your looking for.
I will say this again stop looking for current with meters as it does not matter with this energy. What LaserSaber's films are showing is a separation in magnetic streams as electricity is all magnetic streams. Just placing an Iron rod in the ground will cause it to become very magnetic and if you switch it you have a motor function monopole wise. The digital meters do not measure magnetic current correct, only if you close the loop as taught in electronics, but that is not how this energy works. The Stubblefield coil is nothing more then a magnetic stream separator and you can see this if you watch his video as he clearly shows the effect of that separation. Think about what water is, that is why when the coil dries out you get more energy.
The answer to that question is water is repelled buy magnetic currents so the coil repels the water out of it as it does this you get an electrical increase. It really does not make any difference what you use in place of the iron wire. I have used in some of my coils cotton covered Nichrome wire in place of the iron. I have used just regular steel bolts in some of them. The best being pure cast iron powered cores which I made using cuttings from engine boring machines, it's free if you ask for it from an engine rebuilder.
LaserSaber made the perfect Monopole Motor, but you could use a special Darlington transistor to switch it, if you make it. Stubblefield used horseshoe magnets in his motor and the contactor of the time would have been mercury. Now think about copper chloride if you think you need current. One other tip here build the identical machine as laserSaber did and you will discover the effects in magnetic current and how it flows once it is separated, all electricity is magnetic, north magnets and south magnets in balance if you unbalance them you have electricity.
Again Thanks Jeanna for your kind words very thoughtful of you.
John B
@john_bedini,
So, how are we to measure the energy input into the electric system and the energy obtained from the electric system if we stop looking for current with meters? Why should, say, a Hall effect current probe not be used form measuring current? And, what about copper chloride if we think we need current? How does that work?
Omnibus,
I find several ways to do this. When I could not detect what your referring to as electron current. it is not really the measurement of current with earth batteries as they just developed potential voltage and very little current. LaserSaber has shown that in the videos with the compass is one of the ways to detect this by that movement. you can build a hall device with an amplifier also.
The thing to remember is that the earth cell would like to drive a very high impedance load. the copper chloride would act as a depolarizer for the earth cell allowing much higher magnetic current between the windings if the right amount is used. I think you all have built these devices, but how many have built motors out of them?. I have shown how to charge batteries with just the simple monopole circuit, you would do the same thing with his circuit with the reed. The other thing is that you can also build a very sensitive galvanometer.
I have built Monopole motors this way not saying anything about the windings in the machine, the transformer action can and does charge batteries with the spikes. Batteries just want potential and that will move Ions in the battery, that's all I have ever been saying. If your going to use textbook circuits then yes you need current but that is just a waste of energy. I do not know how long lasersabers motors have been running in this condition. I do know of clocks that have been running for years using this idea and are still running. You can also feel this energy by touch on grounding rods.
The thing about this coil is how it transmits audio through the ground and how far you can go and still pick up the signal, I did have a bout with the FCC over these frequencies I could use. When they got done nothing was left in the audio band I could use but I continued to experiment anyway even if the fine was steep. I just filtered out the bands they were on with steep notch filters. They can here you with these coils, ground radio transmission with no power.
Hope this answers some questions. But if you want a motor just follow LaserSabers directions then use the circuit that people use with the monopole circuits to charge batteries, they will work.
John B
@john-bedini,
I hope you won't get offended by that but I call that pseudo-science. And I don't mean that in a derogatory way but to distingush it from the generally accepted notions regarding the nature of current, energy and so on. I am a classically trained scientist and to me current is a directed flow of electrons. For that to occur you need to have the circuit closed. Energy is the ability to do work and it is generally described by the availability of negative difference of the Gibbs free energy which one can utilize. In electrochemistry that's the difference between two spatially separated substances connected in a closed circuit through conductors of the first or second order. In this sense I don's see anything unusual about the so -called Stubblefield battery because it can be nothing but a galvanic cell. My understanding is that if somebody would claim OU he should provide clear evidence that the incoming energy, properly established, is less than the ougoung energy, also properly established. Now, if new kinds of energy are to be claimed then there should be ways to detect them by converting them into known types of energies so that the conventional energy balance can be found. If there is some kind of non-conventional energy balance to be claimed, it has to be explained very clearly why should that be used and not the conventional energy balance. I'll be glad to be proven wrong but so far I haven't seen anything convincing in this respect, except for maybe what Steorn is demonstrating.
Omnibus,
No you can't offend me as I understand both end's of the debate with this energy. It is really not anything different just said different. Ohms law is Ohms law, power is power the way we measure it. I agree with you. I just want to think out of the box with this energy. I have used meters my whole life and worked for people that had many different views of energy.
Just at this last conference I did present a machine and allowed people to view it and measure it if they wanted too. My systems use split batteries for the reason of measurement if the machine is built right. The measurements and experiments are what concerns me, proof of principal. I find nothing free about free energy as you must pay to get it so it is not free work is required (spent energy).
The other question is how do you know we have any electrons I would think it's more like space charges weather it is magnetic streams emitting from the sun or not I find a conversion process taking place and it is this process that makes the difference and how it is stated (pseudo-science in all the best forms).
Science is not understood by everybody in these groups as they are just doing experiments in hopes of discovering something different, I have an open mind to give them the chance until proven otherwise. But it may be we do not state the science correct. Solar energy with solar panels is one of those direct conversions, it is by no means Free, you must work to get it. Water Power is not free either as you must imbalance the magnetic field to get it. Stubblefield coils are not free either.
The term Free Energy is the "Pseudo-Science" because it is not explained correctly to the science community. The Stubblefield battery is nothing more then a way to force electrons through a rectifying junction using moisture as what would happen in a semiconductor without the water, so call it electrons or magnetic streams they mean the same thing since electricity is very magnetic, can't have one without the other.
So yes your right as it is not explained in the terminology you understand the best. I'm also classical trained but I'm bored with classical circuits as they offer no excitement. I want to look in other areas. It's not a waste of time for these people to be doing experiments as it is a learning process after all that is how you learned things when you were growing up, I hope. So no offence taken just happy to talk to you with real science if need be.
John B
John:
You may have seen it but a while back, I ran an electric motor from my earth battery. I replicated JonnyDavro's One magnet, No bearing Bedini Motor and it ran from the EB just fine. Prior to this, Jim (Electricme) down in Australia, ran a tail rotor motor from an RC helicopter from his EB.
My videos are all posted on Youtube under Pirate88179 and again, I want to thank you for your contribution to energy research and for your sharing your thoughts, ideas and experiments with us all. We are all better off for it.
Bill
Hi Pirate ,would it be possible to get links decribing the circuts you used with your EB's to run the motors? Or was it EB's in conjunction with a JT......thanx shylo
Quote from: shylo on January 08, 2011, 05:03:00 PM
Hi Pirate ,would it be possible to get links decribing the circuts you used with your EB's to run the motors? Or was it EB's in conjunction with a JT......thanx shylo
No, no JT involved in this one. Just the EB and a 650 F boostcap. Here is the video link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rauOlhNK0iY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rauOlhNK0iY)
What I did not show was when I disconnected the battery being charged (9 volt) the 90 volt neon lit up brightly. I wish I had showed that in the video.
Bill
Pirate,
Yes I have seen everything you have posted, I know what you have built and commend you for the work you put into it along with all the others.
The thing that concerns me is the experimental work with LaserSaber since he does not talk much. But I have built the same motors for 30+ years with these coils. It is very important in one of his videos in witch he called it the Mag Tap, that is very important.
That indicates if the probes are not causing it that it is possible to split magnetic current in a bar of steel. If you can do this why would you ever need any rotating device. You would just split the streams and charge any battery. I do not trust the probes unless everything is the same metal. but I think you get the point.
His work is excellent because he has the patience it seems to do everything very careful. I want to know if you were successful in building his motor before I say anything about that? My background is in semiconductors and Power Amplifiers as I was trained by the man that invented the first silicon Amplifier ( The Sharma circuit), he is the one that took time with me at an early age. After that the military took over. If I have seen this right then I know I was right with the monopole Motor as that is an open system.
Floyd Sweet also took time with me in Magnetic Amplifiers so I know what that system is. Now comes the TPU what do you think that is, That man was also an Amplifier guy from what I understand. The Joule Thief pops up also a monopole circuit closed looped every once of current sucked from the battery and nothing returned to the system. In all of this I can understand what Omnibus is saying as the science is not presented right to make any sense. I'm not here to disrupt anything just to ask some questions of the experimental results.
I think the work that you have presented is excellent along with Johnny D, Jeanna and others. I make it my business to keep Investigating every form of science with an open mind, I want to know what makes the clock tic.
Thank you for your comment.
John B
Hi Pirate ,I'm loading video now ,it is 5+ mins long which will take ~6hours to load on my system ,which will probably get booted before it's done.Would it be possible to get a schematic of the circut . I don't need the EB just the circut , plus why do you have a 9 volt battery in the mix, also a pic of the cap you used? If it is not too much to ask I would greatly appreciate it ......thanx ....shylo
9 volt battery was being charged. I read it is not good to run these without charging something...when i disconnect it in the video...the 90 volt neon bulb comes on but I forgot to mention it. The schmatics for this are over on Jonnydavros topic "One magnet no bearing Bedini motor" topic area.
Bill
Quote from: john_bedini on January 08, 2011, 06:04:50 PM
Pirate,
Yes I have seen everything you have posted, I know what you have built and commend you for the work you put into it along with all the others.
The thing that concerns me is the experimental work with LaserSaber since he does not talk much. But I have built the same motors for 30+ years with these coils. It is very important in one of his videos in witch he called it the Mag Tap, that is very important.
That indicates if the probes are not causing it that it is possible to split magnetic current in a bar of steel. If you can do this why would you ever need any rotating device. You would just split the streams and charge any battery. I do not trust the probes unless everything is the same metal. but I think you get the point.
His work is excellent because he has the patience it seems to do everything very careful. I want to know if you were successful in building his motor before I say anything about that? My background is in semiconductors and Power Amplifiers as I was trained by the man that invented the first silicon Amplifier ( The Sharma circuit), he is the one that took time with me at an early age. After that the military took over. If I have seen this right then I know I was right with the monopole Motor as that is an open system.
Floyd Sweet also took time with me in Magnetic Amplifiers so I know what that system is. Now comes the TPU what do you think that is, That man was also an Amplifier guy from what I understand. The Joule Thief pops up also a monopole circuit closed looped every once of current sucked from the battery and nothing returned to the system. In all of this I can understand what Omnibus is saying as the science is not presented right to make any sense. I'm not here to disrupt anything just to ask some questions of the experimental results.
I think the work that you have presented is excellent along with Johnny D, Jeanna and others. I make it my business to keep Investigating every form of science with an open mind, I want to know what makes the clock tic.
Thank you for your comment.
John B
Mag Tap possible answer :
What do you think of this movie as an explanation of the phenomenon? (to watch til the end)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcRCgyComEw
(from youtube: ibpointless2)
LightRider
Lightrider,
That is right good find. So if one would use this hall device with the Stubblefield coil what could you do with that coil? I see it as you could make a self oscillating power source, small at first but it could be done and it would be self powered. But I'm going to wait until Pirate answers my question about the Stubblefield motor, or have you reproduced it? I can see that he does get good experimental results with his devices. So my question to anybody here is did they get LaserSaber's motor reproduced and is it working like his?.
John B
lasersaber,
Could you clarify something? You state you are using "iron wire" but it appears to be galvanized iron wire in the video. If so then you would have a zinc copper battery. Zinc as I am sure you know is the most electrically reactive of metals.
Soak it in lemon juice and you will have a Perraultium fuel reactor. Be sure to register it with the atomic energy commission - it's the law.
Quote from: john_bedini on January 08, 2011, 04:10:29 PM
Water Power is not free either as you must imbalance the magnetic field to get it.
Hi John,
I am going to call you on the water fuel comment. I have copies of Meyer's boards that very few people have seen (his tube cell version of water fuel) and also understand the completely different second generation with the H2O2 production using the laser accelerated ozone generator. Once you have the boards from two different fracture generators in front of you, what Meyer was up to gets real obvious.
I have also replicated the original tube cell resonant charge choke which is actually an RF mixer and a funky final stage of an AM transmitter. It has more to do with Keely and Kanzius and nothing to do with a magnetic field.
Meyer called it "electron bounce" which he accomplished by heterodyning many signals from a cascade generator to produce sideband harmonics far into the GHZ range (burst wave). This is why he called it voltrolysis, there is no magnetic current going into the water, quite the opposite just as Meyer claimed.
Meyer and Puharich were doing the same thing and Puharich confirms this when he stated that he was changing the molecular center of mass from 104.5 to 109.28 degrees. 109.28 = H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide AKA rocket fuel)
Maybe there is a third OU method that I am unaware of? I doubt it, I spent years researching this full time and know far more than I ever posted on a free energy forum.
Trust me John, it is free energy in the fullest sense of the word since you were born in enough water to supply your energy needs for life and it does fall from the sky.
BTW - I have followed you for years and am glad you are posting here. I replicated an 8 coil version of your battery charger several years ago. Mine was not OU unless I accelerated the coil a bit with some pulse compression. I wound my coils a bit differently but used the same basic circuit with better parts.
@john_bedini
QuoteThe thing that concerns me is the experimental work with LaserSaber since he does not talk much.
I am sorry, I really should post more. I always put family first and I find that with two kids and another on the way plus a full time job it is not easy to find time for this hobby. What little time I do find I like to spend experimenting. I usually answer most questions in videos. I also have found that these forums tend to have too many members that just sit around and post nonsense and criticize whatever it is that you are trying to do. I did start a thread on this forum that I intended to actively post in, but it was quickly taken over by nonsense posts like the following:
QuoteNo, he's not convincing. What he's showing is nothing, it's trivial, he can't get it and if he wants to persuade those of us who follow the matter closely he should really do some serious work to prove that's something worthwhile. So far it's a joke and we need no more of this. Besides, if he's not claiming OU what is his device doing in this forum? It shouldn't be in any forum discussing unusual setups for that matter. What he's presenting may be shown at some school fair where kids present experiments based on the known laws of physics. No more than that. Like I said, all he's showing is trivial and worthy of no attention in a forum such as this.
The folks that post that kind of nonsense have a lot more free time than I do to post and will quickly take over your thread and fill it with more noise and nonsense than you can imagine. That is why I mostly use videos to communicate. If you want to see what happened to that thread, just look here: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=9687.0
QuoteIt is very important in one of his videos in witch he called it the Mag Tap, that is very important.
That indicates if the probes are not causing it that it is possible to split magnetic current in a bar of steel. If you can do this why would you ever need any rotating device. You would just split the streams and charge any battery. I do not trust the probes unless everything is the same metal. but I think you get the point.
I was able to increase this effect a little by making larger U magnets. I still have not gotten anywhere near 1mA in output. I did do a lot of experimentation and I have learned a lot more about this effect. I will post a new, updated video in the future.
QuoteSo my question to anybody here is did they get LaserSaber's motor reproduced and is it working like his?.
I will post links to a few replications. There are more replications, I just do not have time to hunt them all down.
Lidmotor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RpCr9Tjttw
manoloj
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XihmGdDpB2o
I do have an update on the coil that I made last October. It is still in very nice condition. It is made with larger wire and can really run a big motor compared with my previous coils. I used a Bedini style welding rod core in it. One thing I did not do was put it in salt water. I did immerse it in calcium chloride and this seemed to work much better than salt water, both for power generation and longevity of the coil.
QuoteNow think about copper chloride if you think you need current.
I will look into it. I am constantly learning when it comes to these kind of things. I would love to learn more about the work you have done and your discoveries. I have not even built a Bedini motor yet. I see that you have no videos on YouTube. What would you recommend I check out to gain a basic understanding of your work? Just point me in the right direction. I am actually a graphics artist by trade and enjoy this energy hobby more as an art form than anything else.
@quarktoo
QuoteCould you clarify something? You state you are using "iron wire" but it appears to be galvanized iron wire in the video. If so then you would have a zinc copper battery. Zinc as I am sure you know is the most electrically reactive of metals.
On some of my coils I do use galvanized iron wire. The zinc actually is the first thing to go on the iron wire. After about a months use it's pretty much gone and you are then left with iron wire. I have found in my experience that magnesium is much more "reactive" than zink. Like John Bedini, I have found that you can use many things in place of the iron wire.
@Everybody
I will post a new video in the future with many updates on the NS coil. I have learned a lot since my last videos on the subject.
Quarktoo,
I think you have not understood what I was talking about, I'm talking about conventional systems. When I said water power I meant a dam generating energy, this has nothing to do with Meyer's fuel cell. I do understand what your saying but that is not for me. Until the time when My car's are running on this system I can't say anything. I do admit I have tried some of these off shoot systems with RF but it did nothing for me in an increase in fuel economy. I'm not into any of this so I really can't answer you on this.
John B
John:
Sorry for the delay in my reply. Thank you for your kind comments, I really appreciate them.
I have not had a chance to attempt any replication of a lot of Lasersaber's work including his Stubblefield motor. His link to Lidmotor's work is a good one in that he does a lot of great replications on anything that looks promising and he explains things very well too.
Laser has done some very fine work and I just don't have the time or money to even attempt to keep up with him but I am very glad that he shares his experiments and devices with us. I still personally believe that we are only at the beginning of what can be done using modern components with some of these "old" and "well known" devices.
I am very glad that you are following what is being done here and also participating with your knowledge as well. I am sure I speak for just about everyone when I say it is very welcomed and appreciated.
Bill
Quote from: john_bedini on January 09, 2011, 12:25:01 PM
Quarktoo,
I think you have not understood what I was talking about, I'm talking about conventional systems. When I said water power I meant a dam generating energy, this has nothing to do with Meyer's fuel cell. I do understand what your saying but that is not for me. Until the time when My car's are running on this system I can't say anything. I do admit I have tries some of these off shoot systems with RF but it did nothing for me in an increase in fuel economy. I'm not into any of this so I really can't answer you on this.
John B
Sorry John, I assumed you were speaking of water fuel. My knee jerk reaction to defending that electrochemistry line you can't beat Faraday is to defend Stan's fort.
John,
Lidmotor on youtube has replicated some of Lasersaber's work.
As for the magnetic current. I've successfully obtained a small amount of electricity from two stationary magnets. About .35 volt at .15 ma continuous. Further testing is necessary to increase the amount of output. I'm actually looking for Angel investors at this stage to further development of this and other "motionless" technologies. Most technologies used today are death-promoting (the whole combustion-reliant science that has formed the backbone of civilization as we know it). When mankind learns to stop blowing things up like some primitive wildman, then the true life-giving mechanics will be utilized and 1000 years of peace will ensue, but only for those in Christ. Everyone else (the majority) will still be in darkness.
Blessings,
LCG
LaserSaber,
Thanks for your reply. Yes take care of your family first I understand that. Also congratulations on the new one. I have never had children as my wife had a kidney disease and could not have them. But I do have allot of kids around me all the time and I take care of them so I understand. I'm not here to cause any disruption or to argue with anybody about anything. I also understand about what happens with so many people all going in different directions posting what ever.
My comments are to just to give you credit for the work you did do in the small mount of time you had. I think it's important work you have done in this field. If people want to ague with me I have a switch at this end.
I'm also classically trained in electronics and have documents to prove it if need be. I'm not one that wants to put up formulas all day long as they work fine for me on the bench. My motive all these years was to prove that batteries could be charged from a Delta Phi current generated from a monopole machine at the same time generating some mechanical power that could be used. Also charging a secondary battery at the same time.
In your work I have seen something I might have overlooked which now explains why I got my results I did. I built a very big machine over 16 feet high and presented it to the public it was generating over 3 million joules in 24 hrs it also developed 46 foot pounds of torque at the shaft with a 400 pound wheel at 16 RPM's. I allowed people to test anything they wanted and to follow every wire in and out of the machine. I'm really to busy developing magnetic solid state switches at the time. I have all the equipment to etch the silicon blanks as my experience was gained from working at TRW early in my life. I can see now that I could have planted that coil in the ground and it would have done the same thing. I think your work is excellent so do not let anybody discourage you with chatter. We can talk later when you get more time privately, but take care of you family first. Thank you for your response I will read through everything. Again excellent work......... Here is a link to what happened from an onlooker.
http://teep.forumco.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1003
John Bedini
To Laser,..yes family most definately comes first, I have three children along with six grandchildren,a man of your talents might best be able to help them with your continued efforts.I worry about the future for the little ones ,thats why it is so important to continue with your exps.,nay sayers have been around since the begginning of time ,I believe they are just jealous because you can do something they can't. I find your postes some of the most facinating on the web thank-you for your efforts and please carry on...........shylo
Quote from: john_bedini on January 09, 2011, 01:44:09 PM
...I built a very big machine over 16 feet high and presented it to the public it was generating over 3 million joules in 24 hrs it also developed 46 foot pounds of torque at the shaft with a 400 pound wheel at 16 RPM's. I allowed people to test anything they wanted and to follow every wire in and out of the machine.
John Bedini
Hi JB,
Converting the number you've provided in simpler unit indicates that the big wheel power output is about 34.73 watts. This seems to be a very small output for such a big wheel. However, if the input is smaller than the output, then the mall total output does not matter. The important question is therefore: what was the input to the system?
Thanks,
Miki out.
Miki,
Nice to here from you but go back to my link I posted and read it, then we can talk about the numbers as I like numbers. I do not know if your going to believe them,. but I let the people do them and some big companies like Raytheon
http://teep.forumco.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1003
John B
Hi JB,
I read the whole thread from the link you provided. The posts seem to suggest two states for the Bedini Ferris Wheel: idle and Charge. Someone provided input values for the idle state: 12.6 Watts. However, I couldn't find any reference for the Charge state input power. Please, let us know the input value for the charge state as well.
Thanks,
Miki Out.
Miki0,
Not tested buy me but by others like Raytheon and GE and Westinghouse. I only indicated the joules being delivered to the secondary battery after regulators kicked in to not overcharge secondary batteries. I said nothing about the actual output in amperes under load but it was not what you have calculated.
The input was 1.8 amps at 36 volts 64.8 watt total input to the machine. The output was 9.2 amps at 47.2 volts or 434.2 watts and 42 foot pounds of torque at 16RPM's at the shaft to break the magnetic locks this is not the motor that you and the groups have built. I have never talked about this motor until it was presented at the conference and it was only built for Tom Bearden's 80th birthday. The center coil is over 200 pounds the side coils are 125 pounds each. As I said I allowed everybody to test it as I always make my work public and it is not the SSG machine. I have had 15 offers for this machine and I do not want or need the money.
And, that puts an end to the Watson machine which in 1984 we were all involved in. Watson got the money, I got pushed agents the wall with a gun in the face and Tom got discredited because Watson disappeared. Also all these years people said prove it, well I did in front of everybody this time with their meters.
As a matter of fact the whole machine was metered so you could see everything. The only thing that worried me was that somebody was going to get knocked out by the rotating wheel. The man that wrote that page was not kidding with what he felt.
To bad we could not accomplish this on the monopole group at the time. Time is everything Miki and the past never dies it's done again another day. There were over 350 people standing there as I told the story of the monopole groups and a little history behind the machine.
The side axial motor is something that people have been experimenting with which is called the perpetual motion holder (PMH) using barium ferrite magnets in a re-gauging mode (Raymond Radus, look him up) so the power to drive that was Five .32 ma pulses at 36 volts at idle of 8RPM's the rest being returned to the primary batteries under re-gauge mode and that was metered to see.
I got really mad when Rick grabbed the shaft and it picked him off the ground and almost took his hand off. John let everybody measure it this time in front of the public. So even electrical engineers from university's were there nothing hidden. To bad you did not make it there. Anyway that is in the past now to be discovered in a different time when it will be excepted. Nice to here from you. If you search the internet you will find more on this machine( Bedini Ferris wheel).
As I said I only built this for Tom's birthday celebration it does allot more then stated and has been measured several times. I have made a DVD on it.
Just imagine an Earth Motor running this big, it can be done now, just need a coil that big that is why I'm working on new magnetic solid state switching device. LaserSaber, Lidmotor has already proved it in videos. My point here is that I did everything very conventional buy the book this time as I learned science must have numbers, and people want numbers well you have them. This is what Tesla talked about hooking your wheel work to nature so nobody here should give up you can do it too.
John B
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Quote from: john_bedini on January 10, 2011, 02:58:07 AM
The input was 1.8 amps at 36 volts 64.8 watt total input to the machine. The output was 9.2 amps at 47.2 volts or 434.2 watts and 42 foot pounds of torque at 16RPM's at the shaft to break the magnetic locks this is not the motor that you and the groups have built.
John B
Hi JB,
Thanks for the information and happy to see you're doing well. These values are specific enough to point to a OU device. A ratio of 434.2 to 64.8 is unbelievably high. One of these days, I might to drop by see the Bedini Ferris Wheel and hopefully be allowed to take some measurements with my equipments. Will you be showcasing the Ferris Wheel on your next conference?
Thanks,
Miki Out.
Everyone:
I have heard from Jim (Electricme) and he has survived the floods in Australia although his home and contents are a total loss. He can't access the net on a regular basis so I wanted to pass the word that he is OK. He spent like 4 night sleeping on the roof of his house as the flood waters were very high and brought with them all sorts of poisonous snakes and spiders that could have killed him while wading through his home.
He is in my thoughts and prayers as I hope he is in yours as well. Only God knows what his Stubblefield coil is putting out now.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on January 16, 2011, 05:41:20 AM
Everyone:
I have heard from Jim (Electricme) and he has survived the floods in Australia although his home and contents are a total loss. He can't access the net on a regular basis so I wanted to pass the word that he is OK. He spent like 4 night sleeping on the roof of his house as the flood waters were very high and brought with them all sorts of poisonous snakes and spiders that could have killed him while wading through his home.
He is in my thoughts and prayers as I hope he is in yours as well. Only God knows what his Stubblefield coil is putting out now.
Bill
I will pray for @electricme well being too!
Just Tell him that on a survival situation the poisonous animals are used for food. I mean, if there is nothing else, you can prepare and eat them.
Jesus
Prayer
Lord give @electricme the means and the wisdom to stand from the adversity he is in, also bless him abundantly.
This is major sad news. So glad he made it through. I wonder if we should take up a collection to help him out. He has been an inspiration to a lot of us. All my best goes out to him!!
Iota:
I was thinking the same thing. Let's wait and see what he needs and then look to what we all might be able to do. I do know this...he would do the same for any one of us.
Thanks for your post.
Bill
I'll start the bidding for Jim's home off at $100...someone just needs to set up a paypal account.
Regards...
Quote from: nievesoliveras on January 16, 2011, 07:31:14 AM
I will pray dor @electricme well being too!
Just Tell him that on a survival situation the poisonous animals are used for food. I mean, if there is nothing else, you can prepare and eat them.
Jesus
Prayer
Lord give @electricme the means and the wisdom to stand from the adversity he is in, also bless him abundantly.
@Pirate
@Jesus
@electricme , especially
I say, Amein!
(Hebrew for "Amen"
Keep up the good work.
--Lee
Quote from: Cap-Z-ro on January 16, 2011, 03:21:31 PM
I'll start the bidding for Jim's home off at $100...someone just needs to set up a paypal account.
Regards...
Hi cap,
How does that work?
Doesn't Jim need to do that?
It would be great if we could open an account that only he could draw from.
??
----
@Bill,
Thank you for answering this about Jim and for posting it here.
---
@all,
Just to let you all know,
I am doing a building project and rarely get a chance to peek in here.
I will be back to experimenting soon, after this building is finished, and I will try to read up and catch up on all the posts at that time! (yikes)
jeanna
Not exactly sure how to set up a paypal acc that only jim could draw from jeanna...but I'm somebody here knows how.
Regards...
If Jim already has paypal you can send him money using his email address.
If you know his Postal address you can Western Union money to him even online. This is done in an instant. A receipt is made at the post office for him to pick up and cash.
Hi All,
Just been able to get access to a PC, (not mine though) and let you all know that I am safe, though a bit battered and bruised though.
Thanks to everyone who have PM'ed me, I have lost just about everything but my car is OK.
Flood water poored through town broadside on, across the main highway, what a sight to see, snakes,spiders, insects etc all in it together, I even seen a jpg of a frog hitching a ride on the back of a snake, hard to believe but true.
Lost the whole thumb nail off my right thumb, trying to remove lino, now that hurt bad, the wacko doctor didn't even give me antibiotics so I saw another one.
I had 3 separate floods hammer me in two weeks, spent 3 consecutive nights in my roof, I had some water and biskets to munch on, during the day I could get about by walking in water chest high, (need a new pair of boots), lost all furniture, carpets, saved the stubblefield coil I wound, put it somewhere and forgot where, but it is safe lol. :D
The fellow who is in charge of the SES in my town decided he needed a holiday, I heard someone say if they get their hands on him they will put him in a bag and drown the Ba***rd, someone else said he'd make a flood marker out of him. ;D
The SES fellow in another town who processed my claim, was on a holiday and he stopped his holiday to help us all out.
I'm very touched by everyones thoughts here, you are a wonderful mob and I'm very proud of you all and are in the top draw named as best friends.
Thanks for your prayers and well wishes, well done. :)
BTW, I have insurance and my place is covered for flooding so I should be OK, but thanks to everyone who have offered their help.
I won't be able to access the net as much as I used to until everything is put right back at my usual residence, which may take months, but will try to pop in when I can, my thanks to you all.
In the mean time keep Stubblefielding..
jim
JIM!! Man i was worried bout you . Thank you for touching base . We were all praying your frinds that is . Don't worry bout me and i took your advice using MMS . I am still kicken also . We are very sorry you lost your house . I guess the pole shift and the ice melts are really starting to have there affect on everyone . you take care and bless you and yours and your mates .
I just got ahold of some cotton cover copper #22 . i also built an air battery with a carbon 1/2 round carbon rod a foot long and some meat paper and heavy aluminium ground wire . It runs a big Jt .
Friends
Albert
Hi! @electricme!
If you are going to live on the same place, measure the level that the water reached at a nearby house and construct triangular colums of that height with the pointed side looking where the water current came.
Over those colums build a small refuge that can serve as your laboratory and as a place to stay during another flood.
a 12ft by 12ft construction will do.
Nice to see you are well!
Jesus
Glad you had insurance as that at least helps.
Id check your Ns coil. I hear flood waters really boost those amps along! ;D
hi jim good to here you are alright was watching the floods
back here in kiwi land as have ralles up in noosa back our way
we are getting droughts in different parts of NZ world weather
is getting really strange stay safe and god bless shane nightshade
@ All:
I have just heard from our buddy Jim, (electricme) and, although he is ok, he is still dealing with the aftermath of those floods over there. He will be back with us here but, he said it may be a while before he can do so, which is understandable.
I am glad that he is ok and I wish him the best in his efforts to put his home back into livable condition. From what he explained, it will not be an easy job.
Bill
Odd that I got a notification for this thread...no matter what I do I can't get a notification for the kapandze thread.
Anyone else having that problem ?
Regards...
Quote from: Cap-Z-ro on February 26, 2011, 08:15:05 PM
Odd that I got a notification for this thread...no matter what I do I can't get a notification for the kapandze thread.
Anyone else having that problem ?
Regards...
Indeed, I am. If I look at the latest replies to my threads, I see many, since Members are regularly posting to them. I only get one or two a week in my Yahoo! "In Box", though.
Does any Moderator know why we're see this?
--Lee
Not sure Lee, I thought it was just me until I got this notification.
Regards...
Quote from: shylo on October 31, 2010, 12:51:02 PM
Hey Jim nice work ....the 2.5v is interesting ....I made 36 little eb's...each puts out .64v .... all 36 hooked in series gave me 22.25v as soon as I hook up my led the volts drop to 2.5v.....18 in series gave 11.06v as soon as I hook up the led the volts drop to 2.5v .Then I made six sets of six in series....hooked the six sets in parralel.....gave me 3.74v...hooked the led dropped to 2.58v....3 sets of six in parrallel,... hooked in series,.. with the other3 sets of six in parrallel...gave me 7.74v ,..hooked the led dropped to 2.6v.....can anybody explain why ...no matter the arrangement once you hook up the led the #'s drop to this ~2.5v ..........thanx for any input ....shylo
i believe this is due to breakdown/avalanche effect. When there is a difference in potential ( voltage ) that exceeds the amount that the insulating part of the semiconductor it will begin to conduct, and in the case of a led emit light. 2.5v might just be what is necessary for it to conduct
Yes, that is what I found with my setup too.
In series the cells gave me up to 66volts and it was enough to light up a white LED fairly brightly.
I have tried series and parallel together, which lowered the volts but quadrupled the Ma, I was then able to drive a couple of LEDs at the same time.
Remember the higher voltage seen on the meter will always be seen with NO load across the output, as soon as you put a load in circuit the output drops to where it can supply voltage and current, depending on the wattage or milliwats as the case may be.
If you short the output, and have a LED on it too, the meter will see almost nothing on its display, remove the short, and the LED will begin to glow, getting gradually brighter, once again this depends on how much energy is avaliable to the circuit.
jim
hay all i just finished read all the post and really like all the tests u have done . But i have a few questions if i could get some answers. plz first in the earlier tests with the rods did anybody try using magnentic rods cause most of the reseach ive done and schematics ive seen Nathan . is trying to draw up the earths magnetic forces. some were it is stated that they thing elect energy is a product of magnetic energy is this proven any wear anybody has seen? i also remeber reading in many articles that it was said with the earth batteries when they were in the ground and something drawing energy of them from long periods of time that the energy they produced would grow has anybody tried any test to see if this was true? sorry for all the questions and great work all as soon as it clears up here in Montana i will be out testing and trying to get my self up to the point u guys and gals are to try and help do tests. im not real brite but i like to make things and test them to see what i can do but not real good with the sicience end of all this
thanks for any responce
mike
Hi mmmelts
Glad to have you along on the Stubblefield thread, and it's pleaseing to know you have read the threads, this will give you a head start.
On your question "did anyone use magnetic rods"---- Not as far as I am aware, although if you want to give it a try, go for it, then post back your findings.
Just don't get your hopes up too high, most of us have done just about every test we can think about and still havent managed any positive result.
Yes, Nathan says the coil must be conditioned in the ground and after a period of time it begins to draw energy from the earth, but we havent seen it thus far.
If you can get hold of some cotton covered copper wire, you will be halfway there.
jim
A point that Stubblefield was adamant about was location. He searched out the higher telluric currents probably with a galvanometer. In any event these telluric currents flow just like rivers through the earth. Just like a river it will take the path of least Resistance. My personal opinion is that the currents are flowing through various metals like iron,gold silver and other ores. Since the whole earth is covered in radioactive materiel's and various ores,then that comes into play also. Radioactive materiel's will boost amps.
The Stubblefield coil is the first electrostatic induction coil. Though slightly galvanic the real power comes from the earths telluric currents. These current's seem to be dc pulsed. The pulse is not a square so it appears there is some ac overtones to it. Check out Pirates and others scope shots. Lots of spikes. Refer to the Joule thief thread as to what spikes can accomplish. With the coil in the damp ground Im thinking the interposed cotton can collect and hold a charge. Leaving them in the ground with no load on them for a long period of time they should collect more charge. If the volume of the coil and its cotton were saturated with charge, and the telluric current strong enough, then with each magnetic field reversal,Earth input,coil output,then there should be an equal charge each time going to the coil. Sort of like charging a capacitor efficiently. The south magnetic field would pump the telluric charge in then exit at the output or north magnetic field in the coil.
I made my first NS coil about a month ago. Not paying attention I ran into a problem when the wires got crossed. Over 3/4 done too. The copper spool had a 1,000 ft and the iron only 500 ft so I just wound the rest of it up and now have to take it off. I did do a few tests but only had about a half volt or so. The wires really need to be on top of each other. I used both cotton covered #14 iron and copper wire. The iron wire was 1008 with a 1/2" 1018 core. I added one winding of iron wire on the core for experimental purposes. I will leave that off when I rewind it as Im going to wind another coil stacking 3/4" wide and 1/4" thick 1018 rectangular bars and try to couple that with a Pmh. I thought just like a laminated core it might help with eddy currents instead of using just a 3/4 " square stock. Not sure if I should use cotton between each bar or what could be used between them. Any ideas or input on this are welcome. Ill post some pics.
@Jim. Hope everything is starting to go quickly in rebuilding your place. Ive been through quite a few hurricanes and know how depressing it can get when your surroundings are in a shambles.
I used cotton string on the core. Much tighter and easier to wind the wires on.
@Iota
Thanks, things are progressing slower in the restoration of the house but I'm copeing.
It will be quite a while before I get back to making Stubblefield coils though.
jim
8" coil 500ft bifilar
I used this high torque dc motor with my variable dc power supply. Its perfect for winding this coil. Used my small arbor from my hole saw and a socket. The mounting holes were too difficult to set up with this simple wood stand. I drilled a hole and braced it down so the motor wouldnt turn. $12 at Goldmine.
http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G15492
Coil has sat for about a month and is dried out.
137.6 mv
.2 micro amps. Like I said coil is dried out.
Here are the 1018 flat bars to couple to a Pmh. Again this will be a 500 ft coil. Any suggestions or input welcome.
Quote from: IotaYodi on April 26, 2011, 07:50:10 PM
.2 micro amps. Like I said coil is dried out.
I have been reading this whole thread, and I'm interested in what is happening to this cell. Is it still in the ground? How long has it been there? What are the readings now? Did you ever add the secondary coil?
Thanks
I wanted to do above ground experiments first. I have one more coil to wind for the Pmh on the one coil. Out of ground and wet I get less than half a volt. Im still thinking the Radioactive materiel's and various metals in the Earth account for most of the telluric currents charge. Radioactive materiel's boost currents. Mountainous areas seem to be the best for this. Here in Florida it may not work out too well in the ground. We have phosphate mining here and the phosphate does have a minute percentage of uranium which they process out. I dont see this coil in the ground as a viable source of energy here.
Quote from: IotaYodi on September 19, 2011, 11:16:14 AM
I wanted to do above ground experiments first. I have one more coil to wind for the Pmh on the one coil. Out of ground and wet I get less than half a volt. Im still thinking the Radioactive materiel's and various metals in the Earth account for most of the telluric currents charge. Radioactive materiel's boost currents. Mountainous areas seem to be the best for this. Here in Florida it may not work out too well in the ground. We have phosphate mining here and the phosphate does have a minute percentage of uranium which they process out. I dont see this coil in the ground as a viable source of energy here.
Personally, I don't think that radioactivity was what NS depended on, but I might be wrong. I live in Pensacola, FL. Where do you live? I have been thinking about this: http://journal.borderlands.com/1997/experiment-ground-antennas/
I wonder if there's something there that might help find the "right spot" for placing the coil in the ground.
Quote from: fathershand on September 19, 2011, 12:18:46 PM
Personally, I don't think that radioactivity was what NS depended on, but I might be wrong. I live in Pensacola, FL. Where do you live? I have been thinking about this: http://journal.borderlands.com/1997/experiment-ground-antennas/
I wonder if there's something there that might help find the "right spot" for placing the coil in the ground.
The ground antenna link is a very fascinating read. Thank you very much for providing. I need to read this, and recompute my understanding of Stubblefield. And I also agree that Stubblefield's radioactive tangent was probably not the fundamental basis for his system.
QuotePersonally, I don't think that radioactivity was what NS depended on, but I might be wrong. I live in Pensacola, FL. Where do you live?
Seeing how the whole Earth is covered in some type of radioactivity I think it plays an important role in the formation and conduction of the telluric currents in conjunction with the earths magnetic field. Just one of many radioactive substances is phosphorus. Another is radon. Which may have been part of the glowing at Stubblefields farm. Radon is a decay product of uranium, which is relatively common in the Earth's crust, but generally concentrated in ore-bearing rocks scattered around the world. Every square mile of surface soil, to a depth of 6 inches (2.6 km2 to a depth of 15 cm), contains approximately 1 gram of radium, which releases radon in small amounts to the atmosphere.
I live in S central Florida below both tampa and Orlando.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomagnetic_field
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_magnetic_resonance#Earth.27s_field_NMR
Similarities and tendencies show up when various NS materials are considered. Stubblefield himself describes the batteries increasing in power over time. The ground antenna experiments indicate a strengthening of signal over time. This links the NS battery with resonant circuits clearly in my opinion. Resonant circuits present in common radio circuits that is. As it also happens to be, NS was able to do ground based radio transmission.
Now we go back to Tishitang's excellent theories regarding series resonant circuits (Fall of 2009 I believe). One of them was a series resonant circuit through one of the bifilar coils, incorporating ground rods on each end. Looks radio-ish to me. He advanced the theory by having 2 series resonant circuits, through each of the 2 coils (copper,iron) and that current in one coil flowed in the opposite direction of the other coil. A collision sort of effect he describes in understandable layman terms. I do not know if Tishitangs opposite current flow theory was used by Stubblefield but it sure looks like series resonant circuits were employed. I think Tishitang got it right fundamentally.
I never thought I would pick this back up again but these radio circuit constructions clearly need experimentation. I saved my NS constructon materials. I'll dig it all out and start this business up again. I have some nice wire that I had insulated in a water permeable nylon weave. And a nice big roll of battery grade / water permeable polypropylene seperator paper (Hollingsworth-Vose). These 2 items being more or less non-perishable (my former constructions consisted of cotton based insulating materials).
Tishitang made a final post that proposed another possibility. Something about Orgone / Joe cells. A layered conductor - insulator construction. Perhaps there are effects in NS related to this. Those subjects are clearly beyond me at this point. So I am quite interested in the series resonant circuits Tishitang proposed for the time being. The opposite current flow thing is also interesting. People have built coils like this already and they too glow blue.
So coil winding still remains a curiosity to me. Two wires wound down the length of a cylinder. I've got that part. Per Stubblefield, 1 wire was bare iron, 1 wire was insulated copper. OK, I'm still understanding things. So let's lay in 3 layers just like this. For the sake of argument, let them be individually/seperate in nature (open ended connections each side). Therefore 6 open leads per end. Three Coppers, Three Irons. Now how to connect them? Obviously there are choices here.
I think what most people are doing is winding to one end, starting a new layer and winding back the other way. In the end the last winding layer is brought back to the original side one started winding from. Thus four lead wires on that end. It even looks like the patent picture somewhat. OK, but is this right? It seems like it would be high in resistance and also high in self inductance (from just an induction coil point of view) Is this what we want? Many of us have built these things (including myself) and they are not really that impressive from any standpoint (electrochemical + induction qualities). I have considered wire schemes that have current flowing in opposing directions (what most of us seem to be building). I have considered parallel schemes that keep current uni-directional. I have even considered Tesla's version of bifilar which is uni-directional current flow direction but it would compromise the voltaic nature of the Stubblefield design (not to mention make for some screwy construction due to applying Tesla's circuit connection design to a cylindrical coil) So what really is the official Stubblefield correct method in winding? There is another possibility here but I have not quite sorted it out completely yet...
QuoteThus four lead wires on that end. It even looks like the patent picture somewhat. OK, but is this right?
I would think so. To wind one layer at at time in one direction would make an enormous amount of splices on one end and way to many wires to terminate together at the other end. The iron wire has got to be mainly a magnetic field. Pure iron only has an 18% electrical conductivity and an iron alloy like 1018 annealed is almost half of that. Lots of resistance between the core and iron wire.
I dont think this has been tried with this type of coil. A ford model T coil is wound with the primary winding on one half of the core and the secondary winding on the other half of the core. The secondary on the one I have torn apart has 3 to 4 smaller wires that are twisted together to almost the same circular mills as the primary. This of course is all copper wire. I wonder If iron wire were used in this manner on an Ns coil if it would have any major effect.
http://www.mtfca.com/coils/Coils.htm
Thinking about this it seems the magnetic field would be more condensed and offer a stronger field collapse going into the core.? Also the amount of turns you wanted for either Iron or copper could be adjusted. You would just need a non conductive materiel in the center to separate them for winding.
I think lightsaber has it right on how to build a NS coil:
http://www.youtube.com/user/lasersaber#p/search/0/xsuw12Qr8wk
This is part 1 of 5.
I'm no expert, so take what I say with a big grain of salt. It seems to me that the NS coil has two aspects to it: galvanic and magnetic. The galvanic part gets the current started, and the magnetic part takes over with large amounts of current flowing. Maybe that is why NS used iron (the magnetic part) and copper (the galvanic part) in the coil. Maybe the galvanic action of dis-similar metals in an electrolyte (water and earth) causes a small current which attracts the larger magnetic force of the earth to give the real current from this coil.
QuoteIt seems to me that the NS coil has two aspects to it: galvanic and magnetic.
Its also an electrostatic coil. There is some Galvanic action but its very small.
fathershand, I agree that there are very unique aspects to this battery/coil. As you mentioned, galvanic or magnetic. I also long suspected that once the reaction (at a frequency) is started, then there is some interaction with ground aspects that occurs.
The battery starts operating in a pure galvonic state. Thus as we all know, fairly weak electrically and thus weak magnetically. At some point, in theory, an interaction with earth occurs. Earth acting in a capacitor sense almost. The slowly building of power, or in ground antenna work - the slow building of signal strength, indicates that some kind of re-orginization occurs. Eventually this produces enough earth based electrical power that it surpasses the galvonic capabilities of the battery itself. More electrical input = more magnetism. More magnetism = more power. Clean, non-corroded iron windings have been a reported characteristic. This means that oxidation/reduction from an electrochemical sense is not indicating internal battery discharge. I have intentionally driven 9VDC into my NS coils. An interesting thing happens. What appears to be hydrogen gas is produced. The other noticeable thing was that light surface oxidation on the iron windings, was reduced. So that is why I think the larger earth current vs internal battery galvonic current keeps the windings in a clean state. Furthermore, we either need a lot of natural magnetics or a lot of natural current to get any real power out of this thing. My conclusion errors to the side of increasing natural currents. The natural magnetic field is so weak, that to concentrate it somehow in great enough quantity, seems less likely.
So my question is, how does the 'earth' take over process work - exactly? Through simple ground rod experimentation I have seen both DC and AC currents. The DC a result of electrochemistry between the galvanized iron and copper rods obviously. The AC observed was much weaker but it was clearly there. If we have natural magnetic field, it would seem the AC is a direct result of this. I always wanted to somehow magnify the power of the natural AC aspect. It is already naturally oscillating thus if it were strong enough, it could be useful in potentially cycling an induction coil through some switching method. If the induction coil was resonant with whatever frequency(or frequencies) that were naturally happening, then maybe some good power is possible. Obviously the lower the frequency, the more power. I think it would be useful to have an induction coil that is capable of being resonant over a frequency range, the lower this range the better. As I understand it, construction aspects of the induction coil make this a possibility somewhat.
Iota, Iron being less conductive is a good clue. I need to ponder this more.
Well I'm rambling a bit much here. It has been some time since I have thought about this system, hence the probably meaningless conjecture on my part :).
Quote from: sarah2009 on September 28, 2010, 03:55:18 PM
Hi everybody
To show that its possibly the bifilar arrangement that makes the Stubblefield coil special,
and not so much the galvanic battery, consider this article from the JL Naudin website
http://home.comcast.net/~onichelson/VOLTGN.pdf
Kind regards
I commented on this once way back. Did anyone have any thoughts to the paper she attached?
....
This probably doesn't mean anything, but I find this interesting. If you read this patent: http://www.google.com/patents?vid=4457988 you will see that this guy uses a coal vein as one of the earth battery electrodes. NS was from the same state I was born in, Kentucky. What do they have a lot of in Kentucky and also in Pennsylvania where NS also did some work? You guessed it: COAL. What don't they have in New York City, where NS was unable to get his device to work? You guessed it: COAL.
My conjecture is that since COAL is very high in carbon, it would follow that maybe the earth's currents might flow readily through it. This might be the cause of NS claims of high energy flow in the earth battery used in KY.
What think ye?
fathershand,
the coal aspect points to a simple concept. Dipole. Get a good dipole to play with and plenty of fun can be had. It doesn't matter if it is a bed of underground coal, or some space based object up to and including an entire galaxy if you want to think big enough. A dipole is a dipole. Stubblefield did have a hell of a time in New York. He left disgusted at the 'stony ground' he encountered there. The geographic areas you mention are interesting ones. Also on this list should be southern Illinois, Missouri, and even Arkansas. Plenty of freakiness under the ground in these places. Actually I would also be interested in anywhere near the New Madrid fault line as well. Dipole possibilities abound. I have studied quite a few older electro-geological based prospecting patents. Before modern satellite based prospecting abilities, they did it with ground interacting induction coil systems. Their coils could detect dipoles that were miles deep. Obviously their goals were finding the dipoles created by ores or oil. Again, dipole is the ticket here. Tap into a big enough one, and plenty of satisfaction can result for mankinds relatively unsophisticated needs (like electricity).
Quote from: fathershand on September 23, 2011, 08:53:43 PM
This probably doesn't mean anything, but I find this interesting. If you read this patent: http://www.google.com/patents?vid=4457988 you will see that this guy uses a coal vein as one of the earth battery electrodes. NS was from the same state I was born in, Kentucky. What do they have a lot of in Kentucky and also in Pennsylvania where NS also did some work? You guessed it: COAL. What don't they have in New York City, where NS was unable to get his device to work? You guessed it: COAL.
My conjecture is that since COAL is very high in carbon, it would follow that maybe the earth's currents might flow readily through it. This might be the cause of NS claims of high energy flow in the earth battery used in KY.
What think ye?
Interesting thoughts. I live in Kentucky about 1.5 hours east of his old farm. Not too much coal over there BUT, who knows how much lies waaaaay down that has not been discovered yet? Interesting theory.
My question to this is...then how did he make what turned out to be the first ship to shore phone or radio call from the Potomac river in DC if coal, or some form of carbon in the ground was required? In this case, there was no "ground" as it were, just river water.
Of course, the ground conditions under the river may have played a part...who knows? We may never know.
I still see so many similarities between this device and Kapanadze's. Pumping amps out of the ground. There must be some connection in there somewhere.
Bill
Pirate, It has been a long time since I read the account of Stubblefields ship to shore radio experiment. I am foggy on the power supply aspect of what he did. As far as the transmission of a signal through the water, obviously no problem either sending or recieving. (these old inventors did it by air, by sea, and by land) Same concept in all three just different circuit construction to deal with the media they were transmitting through.
QuoteA dipole is a dipole
But can be in the form of an electric dipole,magnetic dipole,or an acoustic dipole.
It would seem to me the ground currents would be the magnetic dipole or oscillating acoustic dipole. I wonder if you could discern between these with experiments with an earth battery for the predominate one. With an
oscillating electric field generating an oscillating magnetic field,and an oscillating magnetic field generating an oscillating electric field that might be tough.
Started construction on my first Stubblefield coil since late 2009. It will be a smaller unit designed for specific tests / experiments only. I'll scale up when I have learned what is required. Core is a long iron bolt, nothing fancy. Wrapped around it is battery grade polypropylene (water permeable) seperator paper. Winding layer #1 is on. Another layer of seperator paper. Winding layer #2 is on. As far as the wires, my special manufactured 18ga copper w/ water permeable nylon weave insulation was used in addition to bare 16ga iron. The outer diameters are near equal so windings are real uniform. I was generous in my seperator paper thickness, about 1/2 the thickness of the wires. I am still debating on how many primary winding layers I will put on. I'll sleep on it. I should have the primary finished tomorrow.
The NS patent shows 5 coil layers. That's what I would do.
QuoteThe NS patent shows 5 coil layers. That's what I would do.
The amount of layers or turns will be arbitrary as its a 1to1 coil. The more turns and the larger the wire will give more power though. You should have a low carbon steel core. 1018 or better. You want a good magnetic field collapse. Interleaving cotton can be a pain so thats why I bought cotton covered wire.
'Primary Coil' is done, 5 layers. Calling it this seems incorrect to me. Instead I will refer to it as the reciever coil. The construction went smoothly and was uneventful. The materials used made things quite easy. (Custom nylon weave insulated copper wire, battery seperator paper). Windings strategy for this coil was done in a fashion to allow high self induction like the patent eludes to. Next up is to construct the secondary coil. Another bad term in my opinion. Instead I will refer to it as the exciter coil. I'll acquire the copper magnet wire for this today. I will not be testing the reciever coil until the exciter coil has been added. Exitor coil will have to be tuned somewhat. This will require a bit of basic experimentation. The goal is to provide the best magnetic field possible around the core/reciever coil. Windings for the excitor coil to be series bifilar in nature, high magnetic field production, low self inductive properties.
Tishitang hinted at series resonance. OK but obviously I will employ it differently in my new constructon.
Tishitang hinted at multi-frequency operation (heterodyning). I like it.
I will aso be putting in an order for a nifty switching circuit. An experimenters kit that has series resonant circuit built into it, ability to vary frequency, etc... This will enable the bulk of experimentaton to proceed. Obviousy I will drive the excitor coil with this circuit.
Lot's to do here.... But quite fun!
The primary coil is bifilar. What other type wire did you use?
QuoteAn experimenters kit that has series resonant circuit built into it, ability to vary frequency, etc.
Do you have a link for it Mw?
Quote from: fathershand on September 26, 2011, 02:56:50 PM
The primary coil is bifilar. What other type wire did you use?
Understand. This is my construction Iron and Copper wound side by side. As far as the wire, 16GA annealed iron (bare) + 16GA solid copper that I had covered in a water permeable nylon weave. I posted pictures of it a couple of years ago on this forum I believe. It is nice stuff. I am choosing not to directly cycle my primary. This I will use the secondary for. Thus from a design standpoint, the secondary has to be tuned for magnetic performance in relationship to the core (in this case the iron bolt + the iron windings present in the primary). In other words, backwards from what many people do with these systems. Hence my secondary will also be bifilar wound and in series fashion in order to obtain better magnetic field generation. Limited benchtop experimentation will be performed to establish a few facts. After this, the bulk of experimentation will occur via Stubblefield coil residing in the ground. I do not believe in something from nothing. So into the ground this thing will go. The secondary coil will be operated at frequency. I will artificially cycle the secondary to begin with and use an external power source. This being done in order to research and learn. At some point this life support would be removed and replaced with something self sufficent to the Stubblefield coil. One step at a time for now. Maybe I will apply some modified Tishitang thinking. The primary will sit their and be in a recieving mode for an earth enhanced galvonic current. I intend on pulling useful straight DC voltage from the primary and perform heavy work with what I take. In theory...
---
Iota, here is the link:
http://www.rmcybernetics.com/shop/cyber-circuits/pulse-generators/power-pulse-modulator-ocx/prod_42.html
I think this would be a useful experimentation tool. The price is right too.
Thanks Mw!
No problem Iota. Let me know what you think of this little device.
Initial magnetic field observations in process on my completed coil. Again, I am using what most consider the secondary coil, to create the magnetic field. This it does fairly well so far. Am able to observe strong field properties at the end of my iron bolt. So considering the distances involved, I am happy with it. This outer coil being wired in a series bifilar arrangment works(copper-copper). So at this point a magnetic field is being created in/around the inner copper-iron windings. And lo and behold, the electron pump finally makes itself evident. Stubblefield was damn smart....
Am observing very curious things in the reciever coil (copper-iron). I need to sift through the many observations. Building my overall coil like I did, allows for total experimentation to occur. Figuring out the activation coil was easy. The reciever coil is indeed mysterious in how it behaves in certain situations. I'll bag it though, just need some more time. I still see the pump, I just need to understand how to run it properly.
Please explain the particulars of applying power to the secondary. Even if you don't understand it, please tell us what exactly you did so that we can learn from your experiences.
Thanks. Keep up the good work!
As far as powering the 'secondary', it is simple, just put a voltage across it. This will eventually be done at a frequency. The 'secondary', if sized large enough, will create a very strong magnetic field through the 'primary iron windings + iron bolt serving as a core'. (I think an obvious future improvement here would be to upgrade the solid iron core with either bundled iron rods or a laminated affair like in a transformer. Or something in which field collapse happens completely and rapidly) My 'secondary' was wired series bifilar, thus it has good magnetic field production despite only being 5 layers of 24ga copper wire. Doing this is the easy part.
The iron winding is worthy of the most contemplation in this design. More info when I have the data.... As far as me building this thing in a so called backwards mode of operation. Don't sweat it. The patent isn't 'gold' in its final/current rendition. Stubblefield was forced to change it. No biggie... Nothing a little opposite thinking won't cure.
I need Tishitang right now. If anyone has heard from him or knows how to get in contact with him, let me know. I am getting close to radio time.
Heres a circuit he posted awhile back.
OK, here is my circuit on the Stubblefield Patent 600457
To understand the patent you have to understand resonant circuits. To review: A parallel res circuit multiplies the voltage. A series res circuit multiplies the amps. The Q of the circuit is the multiplier.
For example: We have two ground rods. The voltage between them is 1 AC volt at a small .002 amps. Then if Q is the multiplier, we have 50 volts peak on the parallel circuit, and .100 amps on the series circuit. If we could combine the two separate circuits, we would have a gain in power of 50 X 50 = 2500 all in theory. If we were only 10 % efficient due to loads and losses, we would still have a gain of 250, not bad. The bifilar coil in the patent is high Q construction. It probably has a Q of 100 to 200. So, you see the potential is there.to gain a lot of power even with a small input.
Stubblefield did not have diodes to play with in his day. Unless he used an antennae, he would not be able to use a parallel circuit. So, what did he do? He used two series circuits to amplify the amps. The two ground rods of their respective circuits would still remain at the one volt difference. We are just pumping up the amps. He gets the gain in voltage by colliding the series currents into each other. Notice the new circuit shows the ground rod pairs at opposite voltage to each other!
Have you ever watched boats in a lake coming in from opposite directions. Each has a small wake. But when the wakes collide, it sets up a few big high waves. Same effect is seen when reflected waves meet the source waves. You get higher and lower waves at a lower frequency as their energies mix and match or cancel each other. these higher and stronger wave energize the collector coil wound around the bifilar pair in opposition. This is our power gain. Their must be an also unknown power gain by using one coil of iron. The higher resistance of iron can possibly link with the magnetic field of the earth, or cause a phase shift that helps the amplification factor? Or maybe has something to do with conditioning the space?
I have seen writings speculating on the make or break of the secondary (collector) coil. This is a simple relay set up as a vibrator. Here, it is normally closed. I should have placed it next to its battery where it can be normally open. When energized by the battery or separate EB, the coil of the relay opens and closes the contacts in a vibrating mode. This works the same as hitting a bell with a hammer. The bell will ring at its resonant tone. It doesn't matter how you hit the bell or how fast or what kind of hammer. It will still ring at the same tone. A tuned resonant circuit acts the same as a bell. The sharp pulses of the relay contacts will ring the circuits at their resonant frequencies automatically.
To have this make or break in the patent only makes sense if you are using resonant circuits. The same reason he used high Q winding techniques. These are resonant circuits. Everything points to it.
Even though the iron and copper coils are linked together as a bifilar winding, they can each have different resonant frequencies. The make or break will ring them both. Look back to the Q reference at the beginning of this thread and see the graph. The higher the Q, the longer the ring.
This primes the pump, so to speak, and gets things going into resonance. Then the battery and the relay are no longer needed. You collect your power through the normally closed switch. The pumping action conditions the immediate area. The longer you pump the EB, the bigger your conditioned area will become. You can add a feedback loop to sustain operation. If earth currents shift or weaken, you can prime the pump again to get things going. Once conditioned, it takes less energy to sustain the field. To get it going again might be as easy as sparking the wire as you touch it to connect.
Knowing these principles, you can can design your own version of the patent. It can be bigger or smaller. Smaller means higher frequencies. Bigger means lower frequencies. Normally, the lower frequencies carry more energy. I say start with what you have on hand to prove the principle. Try and use natural insulation materials instead of plastic. Fiberglass and resin are OK for insulation. I have a feeling modern magnet wire is OK as long as the coating is not plastic. Be sure and use the wood ends and cotton wrap between layers of the coils and the core. I will explain why later.
Before you bury your EB in the ground do the following:
Place the components on the ground and map the magnetic fields around a five foot radius or whatever you have room for. Write down, the direction the compass points as you walk around the spot. See how close the compass has to be to attract to the iron, say 3 inches. Then after you bury it and start your conditioning, see if it changes the magnetic field? Magnetic field and orientation of the compass changes will indicate conditioning is happening and how far out it has expanded. For example, the compass is now pointing to the iron at two feet away instead of 3 inches with the priming turned off.
I hope this helps us all in the search for cheap energy.
Tishatang
Tishatang, when you built this device, how many volts and amps did you get and was it continuous? Also, how many volts and amps did you apply to the secondary to "prime the pump"? Was it AC or DC?
Thanks
Tony
Iota,
Yes I am well familiar with Tishitang's writings and diagrams here. He seemed to be working from the premise of running the Iron and Copper windings of the primary at a resonant frequency. I'm in full approval of the concept. I am operating my newest coil different. I am not running my primary this way. I am instead interested in running the secondary coil in the fashion Tishitang suggests. I am pulling a strong magentic field through the primary coil by using my secondary. Works like a charm. The primary is just sitting there while this happens. This is where the fun is beginning. I am observing very interesting things. Very interesting in fact. Far more interesting than my former coils where I used the primary to create the magnetic field. This new way has the options we need. Options that get shut when we use the primary for field generation. I do not care what the patent says, it was modified to satisfy some government loving patent office bozos. Smart bozos that were working an economic situation. In other words, you cannot have a population operating a free energy source. Screw this. I will run the thing backwards to the patent and get the bugger doing what it is supposed to. Think of the process I propose. It is different than the typically cruddy primary inducing a current into a secondary. It will simply never develop the power to perform the work Stubblefield describes. Never. The 'mechanism' only works one way. Stubblefield called it an energy reciever or whatever. I call it an electron pump. I am no OU believer. Stubblefield is not OU. He merely pulled things into his system from an outside domain. That is why this thing will work. It is also why it was trashed by the patent office. Well no more. Think backwards. Rebuild what you have and throw away the idiotic concept of pulling big power off a secondary. :) It's in the iron. The iron is the lever of the electron pump.
Happy building! For me I am nearing the next benchtop phase of testing. A wetted cell. After this it is in the ground it will go. where it belongs.... The only other way this thing will work in air is to employ an air based electron supply source. Of which Stubblefield seemed to have figured out with some of his other designs......
I'm really interested in hearing what happens after it is in the ground.
QuoteTishatang, when you built this device
I dont believe he built it Tony. He knew how coils worked and all about resonance.
QuoteThe iron is the lever of the electron pump
Thats what I see. The alternating magnetic field collapse drawing the current in by standard convention via the south magnetic pole. Questions were raised as how to orientate the coil in the ground as to horizontal or vertical. It may be better to align and angle it / towards the incoming Earths magnetic south pole or geographic north if its possible. That way it hits the very end of the coil broadside keeping this flow generally in one direction. I guess you could attach an iron wire/wires to the end of the coil that sticks out above ground. Then possibly adding wire,copper/iron? to that to go vertically to trees or antenna for the electrostatic field or other electromagnetic waves.. I would think this would use the potential difference of the Earth to the atmosphere.
Some questions for you. I assume you wrapped a secondary around the bifilar primary? Can you do a simple hookup pic? I see your in the States. How much did you pay for the pw from England?
Iota,
Angled ground orientation makes sense. I think however that this thing is relatively forgiving in these orientation regards. I will attempt drawing a diagram that outlines the system I am proposing. I created what I call a quasi-bifilar inner coil using the standard copper and iron materials. On top of this is an outer coil comprised of copper that is bifilar in a purer sense. There will obviously be external devices attached to this double coil arrangement. I am revising Tishitang's concepts slightly because from connection and theory of operation standpoints, my coil is a bit different despite looking nearly identical to all of the other coils people are making.
The basic principle is to bring in a flow of electrons from the outside world and through a unique process, attach them into the internal world of the Stubblefield device. If we have frequencies involved, 'earth' should make a response to our little electro/magnetic intrusion. The response will be one that seeks to equilibrate but at the same time it will have interesting characteristics. It will be initially larger then taper off. In a one shot process, it is just like throwing a stone into water from a resulting wave action standpoint. Only in this case, the waves will progressively get smaller until the water is calm again. (I borrowed this example from somebody, I just can't remember who at the moment). In the case of our 'Stubblefield earth intrusion', we merely keep throwing stones in the water. There are optimal frequencies involved here that will keep earth reactive wave heights at their highest. Here is where Tishitang's theories come into play.
The Stubblefield will work in two modes. One, it will piss off the natural system. Two, it will recieve the natural systems reaction. The idea is to capture the excess portion of the earth reaction. That is the differential we need to create, maintain, and harvest from. No differential, then no real game. What we piss the system off with has to be smaller than the earth response. There are many optimizations that can be done to improve this. Many of these already discussed on this forum.
Good reading on the earths electromagnetic properties on resonance and frequency's on water.
http://www.google.com/patents/download/13_123_024_METHODS_AND_APPARATUS_TO_CREA.pdf?id=V6 XrAQAAEBAJ&output=pdf&sig=ACfU3U2AVZVLOXfDrvLrToOV thI0cuPkWA&source=gbs_overview_r&cad=0
Looking for John Bedini's "Monopole Transformer" schematic.
In his Earthlight 4 video, at 15sec to 30 sec, John Bedini shows his "Monopole forced oscillator" circuit:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Energenx#p/u/27/OXXpnWsLuG0
He says that as an open looped circuit, it is much more efficient than a joule thief. I'm looking for the schematic for this unit.
Is this the same schematic at the "Earth Light, The Easy Way" video, 1:00 ? Here's the link:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Energenx#p/u/30/xTLKEUaDv78
If not could someone provide it (if it's legally available)? It looks like it has a picture hanging nail for the core.
Any help, muy apreciado :)
Bob
http://www.fight-4-truth.com/Schematics.html
Thanks very much, Iota.
Bob
Hi All,
Life is full of synchronicities. Something told me to check on Overunity to see what was going on. I saw Stubblefield, clicked on the last page to see the action, and there was my name right at the top of page 80!
Life is interesting.
Sad to hear Jim in the middle of flood problems. I have had my share of problems too. But, I am back at my old place now in N. Calif, the China experience behind me. My priorities are to finish projects at my house, it being neglected for four years. Much to do before the rainy season starts. It is going slow, my muscles are weak from non excercise and I am getting older, will be 75 in December.
I am excited to see this topic reboot. Don't know if I will be able to do a build, my hands starting to shake a bit to hold a soldering iron. But, I am always glad to offer my opinion.
@MW, You have the right idea to use the primary as the "collector".
Driving the secondary gives the following advantages in an EB.
It has higher inductance having more turns of finer wire. The higher the inductance, the lower in frequency of natural resonance.
It will be more sensitive to the small input source signals.
The small input of varying voltage will be stepped down by the turns ratio, giving a corresponding step up of current at the collector coil "Primary". Current is where the useable power is.
And, how convenient, the wire is bigger to handle the current.
I do not consider myself an expert, just an old backyard mechanic, retired musician. But, I do have a BS degree from UCLA from the old school days if that counts?
Feels good to be back. I can always be reached at:
tishatang at gmail
Tish:
Welcome back sir to both this topic, and the US. We have all missed you and your contributions to the efforts. Best of luck in getting your house back in order and I am glad you are not in China any more.
Bill
Bill,
Thanks for the welcome. I have not thought about the Stubblefield battery since I last posted two years ago. But, it always helps to have a fresh look at a subject.
I am having concerns about the internet. Not to take it for granted. I am starting to backup subjects I like and save them to external HD. Between solar flares and comet debris, our satellites are vulnerable. This is why they are retiring the Space Station, not because of some fake story about the Russian work horse rocket boosters having a problem.
It would be nice to have some working solutions for energy before TSHF.
Chris
Ditto the Pirate! Its good to see you back here. :)
@ IotaYodi:
Thank you very much. I have been around just not much time to do anything or post much.
@Tish:
Yes, I agree...the net can be shut down for many reasons including someone in DC not liking what is being said on the internet about him. Scary times.
Bill
@ IotaYodi
Thanks
Chris
Tishatang, glad to see you're back! In an earlier post, you said that you would explain why we should use wood and cotton for the end plates and wrapping. Can you explain why now, please? Also, you thought that fiberglass and resin would be OK. What were you thinking that these would be used for and why?
Thanks and I hope your "shaky hands" will allow you build an EB soon and help us get this thing really going!
Hi fathershand,
When you read historical accounts of Stubblefield, witnesses said the surrounding hills would glow, or the ground itself would seem to emit light. Also, when concerned friends broke into his cabin to find him dead. The cabin was quite warm with two polished disks radiating the heat.
It dawned on me, that this kind of power could be orgone energy, which glows blue or gives off blue light. I then looked at the patent images, and sure enough, a cross section of the EB is exactly like an orgone accumulator.
An orgone accumulator is composed of alternate layers of metal and organic substances. Research Wilhelm Reich. If this suspicion of mine is true, then we do not want to construct our experimental EB with material that blocks orgone energy. Plastic blocks orgone, but fibreglass and resin is OK and is used to build orgonite devices.
I don't think right off the bat we will build an orgone generator. But, I also don't think that Stubblefield discovered this power right away. It is
a growth process. One takes baby steps and little by little energy grows as we make improvements. However, once an orgone generator is in operation, you start to tap unlimited power.
Chris
Tish,
You may be right about the orgone. However, I've begun to suspect that the glowing ground around Stubblefield's home had a lot to do with magnetic fields. Mehron Keshe has written that light has its own internal structure, and that it is fundamentally the result of interacting magnetic fields (to put it very, very simply). Keshe maintains that the interaction of magnetic plasmatic fields of planets produces light. Keshe's technology uses a generated mag-plasmatic field which interacts with the earth's same field to produce various effects (including light). My thinking is that Stubblefield's coils may have been doing a smilar thing, thereby producing light. Keshe's YT videos will give the proper explanation of what I'm saying in overly simplified terms. See:
http://www.youtube.com/user/keshefoundation
See his Keshe5 video to see what I'm referring to. More info is on the other videos as well as his website:
http://www.keshefoundation.com/home.html
A good recent talk radio interview with him explaining the technology is here:
http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2011/06/RIR-110609.php
In my thinking, there is something to be said for interacting magnetic fields and the production of light, and I think the light-producing effects of buried SBs on Stubblefields property can be considered from this perspective.
As for orgone, perhaps there is a relation, given its bluish light associated phenomena. Here's a YT video to power immediately being harnessed from a Joe Cell:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4N32VuWxwc
Perhaps Stubblefield's coils became conditioned after awhile in the ground, and their strengthening magnetic fields interacting with the earth's mag field produced the glow. At the same time, perhaps they were also accumulating orgone, and perhaps at some point, there may be an overlap where both the SB and JC are actually tapping into one single energy source from slightly differing entry points.
Bob
Bob,
Thanks for turning me on to Keshe's work. It is amazing that one man discovered what the black ops have known and kept secret since the 1950's. The power elites will do all they can to keep this technology from going public. It is too big a game changer. But, change is in the wind from many different directions. Perhaps the current power structure in the hands of a few will be over soon? And, we the people can enjoy modern technology.
To me, Keshe's magnetic plasmas and orgone energy is the same stuff. Just different names and concentrations of orgone. What differs is the methods used to concentrate and manage its energy. The direct tie-in is when Reich pointed his cloudbuster at some stars and they winked out or moved away. Reich thought we had alien visitors and went to the FBI. He made a mistake thinking we had an honest government. This was the real reason he was stopped and his books burned. The fact he threatened the medical mafia with his healing by the use of the Orgone Accumulator added fuel to the fire. Orgone is what was powering the spaceships and his cloud buster was sucking the orgone energy out of them. There was no way the power elites and black ops wanted the secrets of orgone energy cat let out of the bag. And, the same holds true today. It is interesting to note that Keshe is using his mag plasma to heal just like Reich with his Orgone energy. Here is a little bit of history from one of his burned books.
http://journal.borderlands.com/2010/round-robin-does-the-planet-earth-harbor-spacemen/
Hopefully, history does not repeat and Keshe does not end up dead in a jail cell like what happened to Reich.
Regarding the video of the Joe Cell charging a battery. This could be surface charge? A better example would be to show the battery trying to light a bulb. First the dead battery failing and then the recharged battery lighting the bulb. So, the video does not prove anything, but could have been better with a bulb as a load.
Chris
I would like to insert my two cents, because that is probably what it is worth. Unless someone can clearly show a link between the Stubblefield battery and the "blue light", then it is speculation to put forth the idea of orgone energy, etc. I think it is better to stick to the scientific method in order to solve the "mystery" of the Stubblefield battery. Further, lasersabre's youtube channel shows some pretty great work on this EB. I am still looking to see someone produce an EB or a series pf EBs that produces some significant power, i.e., Voltage X Amperage.
Chris, thanks for the link to the Borderlands piece on Reich. I'll read it thru. The energy is all around us. Indigenous cultures use it to heal (e.g., the sobadores of Latin America or Qi Gong practitioners), some concentrate it in the hands to start fires or use as a weapon. There are pure souls like Daniel Pomerleau in Quebec who seem to harness its properties to turn ordinary wire coils into radiant energy access points to light incandescent bulbs. Keely seemed to access its properties through frequency, producing levitation and quantum release of energy. Too bad Stubblefield's secrets were carted away. However, like you say, there are enough people working at this on so many fronts, that perhaps the proverbial dyke's multiplying holes can no longer be plugged or managed.
Keshe's work is very promising. It was his description of light's internal structure in the RedIce interview that awakened me to what might be happening with Stubblefield's EBs producing light.
Magnetism, gravity, light, electricity, vitality ... all connected...
Bob
Hi all,
It's been some time since I last posted, (thanks to Pirate and MW383 for encouragement PMs)
Just popping in to say I'm still around, read up the last 10 pages and can see the thread is going great.
On the home front, still walking on floor boards, winter was cool, no benches to make "stuff" let alone cook food but that's what it is like at the moment. Had to sack 2 builders, one didn't show, other went behind my back, it'll be Jan or Feb next year before any work starts on my house.
Just had a phone call from the Mayor, invited him to come calling for a look see, should be interresting ehh.
Hopefully I can pick up from where I left off one year ago.
On the Stubblefield coil, has anyone read the book "The Harmonic Conquest of Space"? http://www.whale.to/m/cathie.html Bruce Cathie goes into the properties of frequency of Light, Magnetism and the World Electro Magnetic Grids, all very interresting if you can follow it, but as I'm mathmetically impared, I couldn't follow it properly, but I just "know" there are several important keys we could use in the Stubblefield Forum.
I'm sure there are brainer folks here that could see a link up between Stubblefield and the electromagnetic spectrum.
Thanks to all those who have been wondering over the last few months what's been hapenning here, hopefully I can begin posting again soon.
Jim
@electricme
Good to see you post again Jim. A real bummer for the time line on your house.
QuoteI'm sure there are brainer folks here that could see a link up between Stubblefield and the electromagnetic spectrum.
No doubt about that. If you laid out the whole electromagnetic spectrum frequencies side by side it would span the US from coast to coast. From what Ive read it only takes 3 frequencies to just make white light and there are a multitude of them to do it. With the electromagnetic spectrum having the duality of both particles and waves its tough to decipher. This would include the Orgone theory being part of the electromagnetic spectrum in my opinion.
Ive always had the question of how the electromagnetic spectrum is made and of course no one really knows. With the confirmation of dark energy that may be its source. If you think about it the Earth interacts with the whole electromagnetic spectrum 24/7.
With chlorophyll having the ability to process light it may be the reason Stubblefield placed cables on trees, Who knows!
http://library.thinkquest.org/27356/p_index.htm
Hi All,
It is my belief that Stubblefield used resonance to achieve his goals. Most the popular ambient energy devices like Moray, Hendershot, etc, also used resonance. Two things are needed to get resonance. A capacitor and an inductor. The Stubblefield patent is an inductor. But it is only half the equation, we need the capacitor to make it work. Unfortunately, the Patent Office made him call it a battery, and most people go no further to explore the possibilities, just looking at the 'battery" by itself. I don't recall from my readings that Stubblefield called his inductor a battery, but a collector. I could be wrong and I do not have many of my books now to verify this fact. But giving something a name is not important. What is important is how does it work.
You bury the inductor to collect the energies in the earth. In the earth is DC and there is various AC frequencies. The trick is to find the frequencies that can be tuned into resonance using a capacitor on the surface. Stubblefield also used external excitation to stimulate the natural frequencies. It is the capacitor you tap for your power, not the inductor. Bedini uses a battery to collect the radiant charges. A battery can be thought of as a very large capacitor. Like a battery, a capacitor will also collect a radiant charge. Some capacitors have been know to generate self charge just by sitting on the shelf, giving surprise shocks.
Further support of this theory is the two polishes metal plates that were giving off heat to keep Stubblefield's cabin warm. The two metal plates could easily have been the plates of the capacitor in resonance with the inductor in resonance with the energy supplying the heat energy? It follows logical thought.
I will try and do some experiments later this Fall. Unfortunately, I sold my oscilloscope and other pieces of gear that I thought I would not need again. But, I can do work-a-rounds. I want to explore the nature of the energies in the earth. What are those natural frequencies? How can we stimulate them to yield higher power? If we know what we are dealing with, maybe we can come up with better designs than what Stubblefield did.
We are dealing with subtle energies here and our modern DVM may not pick them up. Stubblefield probably used a galvanometer to detect where to place his ground rods. Either that or he was an expert dowser?
One can make a sensitive galvanometer out of a compass and winding a bunch of fine wire around it. One can learn about dowsing by videos on youtube or books. Search Raymon Grace on Youtube and also download "Letter to Robin" pdf on dowsing using google search. So, I have learning to do. I did do dowsing once when I went through a flood and had to find my water meter which was buried about 18 inches in compact mud and gravel. After numerous holes dug with no luck, I finally bent a couple of welding rods into an L shape and paced off looking for it. First try, the rods moved, I dug down and landed right on top of the meter. So, it works. I just learned that Leedskalnin of Coral Castle was an expert dowser. Perhaps Stubblefield also?
There is also another factor that cannot be discounted. That is the quantum effect. You know, where the observer affects the outcome. Our consciousness can affect the experiment. One theory is that everything has consciousness, or the field has consciousness. Another simple way to put it is, the universe wants to please you. You want light to be either a particle or a wave, OK, you choose. Want the ground radio station to come in louder, OK. Want to get power from the earth, OK, give me the chance to please you. Try to find the right combo of capacitors, inductors and mind set.
Just an update on my thoughts,
tish
QuoteThe trick is to find the frequencies that can be tuned into resonance using a capacitor on the surface. Stubblefield also used external excitation to stimulate the natural frequencies. It is the capacitor you tap for your power, not the inductor.
I have been thinking this for awhile. I swear I have seen a photo with a bank of caps sitting next to a large coil of his. The dousing is another thing too. You can find both water and metal, but dousing has never been absolutely proved. With NS putting cables up in trees I would think there is a relationship with the water content in the trees. The aerial electrostatic field has slightly more positive ions than negative ions. I wonder how this plays into the bag of apples as far as being used for Voltage or Amps in an electrostatic coil. Then there are the radioactive materiel's in the ground which includes radon gas. That makes me think of how a florescent light works.
I ordered this pulse generator from England. Been wanting to do magnetic pulse experiments. If you have any ideas on experiments with the NS coil using this please let us know.
http://www.rmcybernetics.com/shop/cyber-circuits/pulse-generators/power-pulse-modulator-ocb/prod_41.html
@Iotayodi
This is probably the photo you had in mind. (the first one) The second picture shows that same Stubblefield large coil, alongside a picture of a coil made by a certain "Stephan of Germany". Stephan's coil is just about the size I would love to see someone on this forum make.
Hi protonmom. Glad to see your still around!
This is one of the pics but there was a closer one.
Back in those days, circa 1902, capacitors were more difficult and expensive to build than inductors. The variable cap was not invented until around 1910 and perfected around 1920.
I am going to speculate that the layered stack on top of the old coils in the Stubblefield photos were open type capacitor banks. They could be tuned to the coils by removing a layer or two of the metal plates and insulation between them. Once you were close to resonance, then it could be fine tuned by external coils on the surface in series with the buried inductors. Look at other photos of Stubblefield and the long open helix air coils connecting things together. They look like coiled telephone receiver coils to keep things from getting tangled up. But, it is a simple matter to tune these long inductors by simply removing coils and straightening the wire up. So, rough tuning by removing plates of the open type capacitors and fine tuning by removing coils from the long helixes on the surface.
The large physical size of the components were probaly close to the Shuman resonance of about 8 Hz which some say is now closer to 12 Hz.
Now we have large capacity capacitors relative cheap and old variable air caps for fine tuning. The large caps can compensate for small inductors to get the fundamental freq down to very low levels.
Oh yes, I am still around, and will be, hopefully, for a long time.
Iotayodi:
Back when we first started talking about Stubblefield, a couple of us made enlargements of all the coils we could see in that Stubblefield farm photo. Perhaps you are thinking of one of the enlargements? I remember you asking once before about that picture of caps. I don't recall any other photos except the ones we enlarged, unless perhaps you saw it on another forum or site?
I have a feeling that Tishatang is correct in that the stacks on top of the large coils are open type caps. Thanks Tishatang for telling us about that! It does make sense.
Welcome back Tishitang. I had quit all of this business for a while but find myself back into it and constructing coils again. The coils are going together quite well. I have some really good wire materials and insulating layer materials which both make construction easy. Anyway, a few minor things I notice in construction....First, being generous in the insulation layer thickness between coil layers seems to be a good thing. As far as the outer winding (most call it the secondary), A true bifilar series winding produces better magnetic fields than something scramble wound in 'there and back again' manner. I will be taking my latest creation into work next week for some proper measurments. Resonant frequency and inductance will officially be measured on all windings in this system (the secondary, the iron winding of primary, and copper winding of primary). I work for a company that makes induction cooking devices so the project engineering leader has agreed to put my coil on some really good equipment to characterize everything. I am looking forward to the results. First, knowing the resonant frequencies would enable me to complete the rest of the system; capacitor sizing, and exact frequency to set my switching circuit. Who knows, maybe other useful information may be gleaned. I read the various links in ground antennas. Excellent stuff that plays right into this Stubblefield system. And in my opinion directly related to your earlier postings here. I have installed a ground antenna system to a radio I have in the garage and it does work quite well this way. So this is my current status these days. It is good to hear back from you Tishitang. I am getting close to testing these theories you have made. Resonance makes sense. I look forward to beating the hell out of my latest coil in this fashion. I will continue in my backwards operation of this thing. I will at first artificially power the secondary coil at a frequency, and use the primary coil like a ground antenna. My guess is that good power will be found and one that builds over time like Stubblefield indicated and the modern ground radio experimenters report. I'm after big power and the primary is obviously capable of high amperage. Doing it in opposite fashion is fine for play but limited in what it can do in my opinion. I have run them this way plenty and am quite done with doing it that way. More postings after I have coil test data. Oh, one more thing, I also remain wary of various - lets say - potential orbital type issues. Maybe more so in the coming weeks as earth passes through potential dustiness left directly in its path recently. Maybe no issues at all with this or maybe our satellites may not be to happy about it either. Time will tell.
Im going to add this.
This is an excerpt from an article about Stubblefield written by one of his grandchildren:
Grandpa was now once again blamed by his wife of 36 years for accidently poisoning three of their nine children through inadvertencies. Neither, at the time of their experimenting with various mixtures of Pitchblende and salt crystals within their 85 farmland soil, knew it was contaminating Teleph-on-delgreen. From 1881 to 1906, the soil-coil RF antenna "hotspots" -- that made it possible for Grandpa Nathan Stubblefield to develop and patent the 1898 induction earth batteries and 1908 Wireless Telephoneâ,,¢ -- did contaminate their foodstuffs and water.
It wasn't until 1906 when their son Tesla died teething on a potato from one of the RF antenna "hotspots," -- that they realized that it could have been the RF antenna "hotspots," mixtures of Pitchblende, salt crystals and other active metals that created the healthy looking but tainted vegetable gardens. The watermelons, tobacco and other vegetation they had commenced growing and selling since their courtship in 1880, when he was 20 and Ada Mae, 16 years of age became an invitation for both invention and the destruction of a family.
They couldn't shake the sense of dread, so Ada Mae on their 36th anniversary, 1917, left Grandpa Nat stranded. He moved his gear to a one room hut and became a stranger than fiction recluse. On summer nights, he would shock his neighbors by lighting up hill sides from his hut, with his buried RF induction transmitting coils.
One wonders what he did to the ground, the batteries as patented could not do this.
Hans von Lieven
http://keelytech.com/stubblefield.html
Iota:
I have read this before and some have used it to say that this was the only way his devices could work....with radiation. My question still stands that if this was the case, how did he demonstrate his devices on the road including one performed on the Potomac river in DC?
Possibly he was trying to get "more power" by doing this on his farm. All of us understand this desire. I would love to take a Geiger counter over to the old farm location (now Murry University) and see what the readings might be. If there was pitchblende there I would think the radiation would still show up today.
Bill
I agree with Bill. Pitchblende is a "red herring" in this topic. Hans von Lieven does not site the article that he quotes. Therefore, it is of little scientific value to us. Also, in the days that Stubblefield was inventing his induction amplyfing coil , a.k..a., earth battery, radioactive materials were not regarded the way they are today. He surely would have mentioned it somewhere to somebody. There seems to be no evidence that he told anyone about radioactive materials.
MW383: How much voltage and amperage are you planning to use on your secondary coil "stimulation"? Since your secondary will most likely have more turns than you primary, you will be stepping down the voltage and increasing the current on the primary. Can you please give us some particulars of the device that you have built? Pics also, please.
Thanks!
fathershand...My coil is nothing fancy. An iron bolt serves as the core. Wrapped around this is battery grade seperator paper (Hollingsworth-Vose, polypropylene based, water permeable, doesn't degrade like cotton). After this it is the standard fare copper - iron windings everyone is familiar with. Both 16GA. Copper is covered with a water permeable nylon weave insulation which also does not degrade. So in these aspects my coil is much like what is described in the patent. I just substituted in a couple of better insulating materials. Between each winding layer is the same battery seperator paper. I went with a thickness that was about 1/2 the diameter of the wires, so fairly generous. The paper is wound on as tightly as possible so it creates a nice smooth and firm surface for the next winding layer to sit on. And of course the windings are also as tight as I can make them. My current test coil only has 5 layers of copper-iron windings. Covering this is another generous thickness of the seperator paper. And then the 'secondary' winding is added. I went with simple 24GA insulated solid copper wire for this coil. This was done in bifilar fashion. So I wind a layer on (two wires side by side). The end of the first wire is routed back to the start of the second wire. This strategy is used throughout the multi-layered 'secondary'. I did this scheme because my testing indicated a stronger magnetic field being produced than a simple winding strategy. Stated again, I will apply power to the 'secondary' and see what I can collect out of the primary (in earth). Initially it will not perform worth a damn. I already know this. I aim to use the 'primary' in a fashion similar to a ground antenna. Let's see if these currents build like both Stubblefield and the modern ground antenna experimenters state. As far as what power I dump into the 'secondary', probably not much. 1.5V I suppose. And at some frequency that is to be determined. The coil will be attached to some modern equipment in the next several days for some general characterization. I want to run in a resonant condition. My guess is to run the 'secondary' coil at the primary coil's resonant frequency. I don't know though, experimentation will be required. So the characterization will at least give me hard data on what frequencies are at stake in all windings. I'll obviously be cheating by using modern electrolytic capacitors. I will also be initially cheating by using an external circuit to perform the switching (at frequency). One step at a time here. Eventually some of this would obviously be simplified. But for now it is the fastest way to more data. That's the plan.
On a side note I will resume my commercial induction cooking experiments in an in ground sort of scenerio. These circuits operate at either 25kHz or 50kHz, pretty high but they might prove useful. The pancake style coil will be sealed in plastic and buried in the ground. For this experiment I will use simple ground stakes placed in the field produced by the coil. Copper stake will be driven into the ground nearest to the coil. A galvanized iron stake will be driven on the outer fringes of the field. This due to the fact that this stake will become inductively heated. So keeping it a ways from the coil should only produce slightly warm temperatures on that stake. A smaller ferrous metal will be placed near the coil as well because the circuit needs to sense a 'pot' is on the stovetop for it to work. So I will fake it out with the smaller metal piece. This piece will get hotter than hell from the induction process but it will be in the ground so I will not worry about it too much. I will monitor volts/amps produced by the 2 stakes to see if anything interesting comes to light. Maybe nothing will...
I know there was plenty of mention on soil additives helping the Stubblefield designs. I am still banking on Tishitang's radio thoughts however. Crazier thoughts involve heterodyning with this system, getting to more powerful lower frequency designs, etc...One step at a time on these things too.
QuoteHe surely would have mentioned it somewhere to somebody. There seems to be no evidence that he told anyone about radioactive materials.
Radioactivity was basically unknown when he first built the coil. The hot spots he looked for just may have been pitchblende. It was his grandson who made the statement. The properties of pitchblende werent totally understood at the time the coil was built but it was well known of its amazing properties. He still could have brought some in from south western Kentucky. A bucketful of radioactive pitchblende would start current in any coil. But even so there are plenty of other radioactive materiel's. Radon gas is the most interesting to me just because its a gas. The Earths electric field has no choice but to pass through these materiel's. The pitchblende properties were known later to the grandson so you really cant totally discount his statement.
Is your "iron" bolt and/or wire really iron, or is it steel? What was it's original intended use?
How many turns of the primary and how many for the secondary?
The 1.5 V that you will be using to get a response from the ground sounds too low, but I'm not sure.
Thanks
Tony
Iota: I'm sorry, but there is no evidence for the supposition of the presence of radioactive materials, i.e., pitchblende. The relating of that story was NOT sited, so we can't check it's authenticity. At best it was related 3rd or 4th hand. That rules it out as being acceptable scientific evidence.
Now, we do know the properties of pitchblende as they relate to increasing electrical activity in coils, so that is a truth. Can we apply that here? Let's gather more real evidence to see if we can. I do hope, however, that the answer will help us to successfully build this EB and get good results.
Tony
QuoteI'm sorry, but there is no evidence for the supposition of the presence of radioactive materials
But there is but it just might not be pitchblende itself. There are radioactive materiel's both on the surface and below worldwide. As far as the story goes there is no scientific proof either way that pitchblende was used.
Radon gas is a decay product of radium and thats a different matter. 21000 die each year from radon. Thats more than all the drunk driver deaths. Kentucky itself is in zone one. Here in Florida its zone 3 out of 3 and we still have it here. I know as Ive had to set out tests for it in an old cracker hotel as the facility manager. Radon gas escapes out of rocks also.
If the telluric currents/charge is running through ionized radioactive gases then maybe its a little different than a normal "dry" electric current. The absorption of these gases in the coil body and damp cotton underground might be significant.
Just my thoughts.
Hi MW383
Thanks for the welcome back. Interesting how life seems to run in cycles. Now a fresh go with new energy and perspective. It is really helpful you will have each set of coils tested for self-resonance and other characteristics.
Once you have buried it in the ground, it would be good to have the ability to give a sharp pulse the EB and watch the response on a scope. Pay close attention to the ringing after the pulse. It would be very interesting if the ringing is a freq other than the natural resonance of one of the coils. This would help reveal a natural harmonic of the ground currents. And, would indicate a freq to use to stress the field in the ground. Tune all the coils to this freq and see what happens?
Best of luck,
tish
Hey folks,
Long time no see. i was reading a bit and i might have missed it as of late. But Stubblefield did have some form of trackable magnetic grid on the property. Heres my logic
Discovered in murray at the cabin was a "pith ball detector array" Imagine a chess board with a buncha liltte wobbly things that would move if something outside in the associated grid moved.. Sweet intuitive motion detector. I wanna know how he did that . But what i think is relevant is that if he did lay some kind of grid system for the "pithball" aka the apparatus to hook up too maybeee just maybee the "glow" of the property was these grids giving a visible display.. If i was to venture to build a system like that id imagine you would have to have constant current running through it and then mesaure the potential difference that would probably make the assoiateed ball move . Just speculation . But theres more hear than any of us know still. Its puzzling.
http://borderlandresearch.com/book/lost-science/earth-energy-vocal-radio-nathan-stubblefield/11 Read this it makes a lot of sense with he back story the bottom paragraph references what im talking about
also
references the pith ball array and motion detection
http://www.hbci.com/~wenonah/history/nathan-s.htm
Quoteid imagine you would have to have constant current running through it
Or just plain electrostatic charge buildup like on a carpet.
You started a monster thread here Joe. :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroscope
Gonna throw out something from left field that may or may not have been mentioned. Is it possible that what got the SB working was in fact magnetic current, and its being changed into standard current was what Stubblefield used for electrical power? An interesting observation:
QuoteTesla and Leedskalnin made discoveries regarding magnetic current that would "change the world". We know Leedskalnins perpetual motion holder is basically a room temperature super conductor and once you know its lovely workings you can efficiently push 'standard' current into magnetic current back to standard current with virtually no loss.
Taken from:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=11029.msg291298#msg291298
This hypothesis might square well with the mention I made earlier of new work of Mehran Keshe, who explained that light is the product of interacting magnetic plasmatic fields. I queried as to whether the mag field of the SB was interacting with the mag field of the earth to produce the glowing points on the Stubblefield landscape.
http://keshefoundation.com/en/
Has this magnetic field dog been sufficiently addressed, or does it deserve further flogging?
(No animals were harmed in the making of this post :)
B
Tree antennas I found interesting.
http://w5jgv.com/tree_antenna/
http://w5jgv.com/tree_antenna/George%20O%20Squire%20Tree%20Antenna%20Patent.pdf
http://w5jgv.com/tree_antenna/Robert%20Hand.pdf
http://w5jgv.com/downloads/AD735330.pdf
Right on Yodi!
I wish i had more time and money to experiment with things. After a few years of retrospect and checking out dozens of technologies. I still wish i could crack this one!
Somehow this guy used that battery as a magnetic current pump that eventually aligned itself with the earth field aether whatever people wanna call it. But i dont think it was the pitchblende on the property. I imagine that using the earths mag feild as a carrier wave for his ground radio transmiter/earth battery was awesome but then he realized that a modification of the same device could tap into the "carrier wave" for power instead of just sending a modulated signal imposed on it. I think this is where the real mystery behind the device started . Now in modern times we might not need to prime a cell for days like he did just understand the principals behind it.
Start back with music and standing wave theory and i still thing this devices potential is realized when the collapse on the core is plucking a harmonic that the earth will resonate back to. its the sequence that matters and the freq.
Another musical logic that applies. im a guitar player- "if one play's certain notes at the right intervals they build off each other creatively(constructively)"the amplitude raises on its own. we call that "resonating".. I read some tesla lately and one analogy fit awesome with this.. He always talks about a "disturbance in the medium" and resonance ect. We have to disturb our medium properly and at the right interval so it will resonate. so to end the philosophical talk,
What im really saying here is maybe we need to look at the magnetic properties of this a bit more with the understanding that were creating a device that uses a minor galvanic current to power a magnetic induction transformer. for this transformer to work it needs to strike the right note with the much larger magnetic feild around it. I think thats the logic behind this device. may be wrong but its where all my signs have been pointing.
It goes back to the opera singer and the wine glass!!!!! the earth is our opera singer with a constant pitch maybe little variable but we wont go there.. the stubblefield battery is "a tuneable wineglass" when we put it at the proper freq it should resonate on its own with no power input needed.. At that point if it is resonating on its own this would mean the internal magnetic field via collapse is creating plenty of energy for the secondary to disperse "call it free energy or just resonate pump"
Just had a moment in the shower thinking about all this...
Tesla wasn't mad at all and at the end he claimed that he could communicate with other planets in our solar system.. He was dead on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Riddle me this--- I proposed stubblefield used the earths magnetic feild as a carrier wave for communications and or a direct source of power. so if we use a small electromagnet to resonate with the earths feild to achieve that it makes sense and alot of elf and ground wave radio stuff uses these principals.
So in essence we have smaller magnetic feild resonating with larger magnetic feild and allowing for seamless communication .earth battery and the earth.
Now the suns magnetic field must have some effect on the earth .. what carrier wave would be present on all planets......... the SUN! Little did we know that the ancients were right .. power really does come from the sun.
So what dawned upon me is we need to look at how the sun interacts with the planets as dominant magnetic feild that sustains the indivudal planets magnetic feilds, to understand a unified feild theory. Not all this electron proton bullshit. Electricity is a byproduct of destroying magnetic feild energy its the only logical conclusion.
Now i could be completly nuts but alot of these concepts seem to fall in place when looking at the bigger picture!!
We started here long ago arguing about an on off mechanism that creates a magnetic feild in a core and disturbs a secondary coil to produce power.. At first i thought it was a device that would produce a constant current as long as the inital galvanic charge was there to keep the "relay"/ on off device going... Basic primary coil switched on off very fast to produce juice in a secondary.
Now i see this as much more i see a device that uses basic battery principals to start a device that will resonate with a magnetic field around it.. The act of doing this is where the real power is !
The logic behind the sun and the planets is what cracked my noggin open a little wider on this one.. i think i was missing the big picture when we started off here years back.
What you are saying makes a lot of sense to me joe...and may be the most reliable source of energy...unless of course the pole shift really does happen.
Regards...
Thanks cap,
Sometimes as we grow so do our minds and we look at things not for the visible explanations (whats right there in front of your face) but really for there purpose or how they work :)
Now ive gotta go find all the stubblefield parts and try this again
As far a the interrupter i say we just try a regular old magnetic relay not actuated off the core, actuated on its own like a el cheap radioshack jobber! I think looking at this thing as a tunable wine glass is the best anagaly i can make to get this project moving further than it has. the core with very little magnetism is key as well that way the fields can collapse easily and give good discharge on the secondary once the ringing in tune.
Ok now dont laugh im going to ask some questions on my mind.-
How do we accurately sing out to mother earth.??? Ive got plenty of freq charts for shumman resonanse and charts for harmonics and octives. but theres something here that sits in my head that must have some bearing on this.
I talked about resonance and wine glasses ect.. every example of a "creative/constructive" is based off of phi 1.618. there must be some logic behind it.. shauaberger realized that was the key to the vortex build..
We need to all be musicians here for a little bit and
1- find a way to play a note to the earth that will resonate with her magnetic field
2- find a way to measure or evaluate what gets sung back!
3- after testing find a self resonating interval that will yeild the symbiosis were looking for
a neon on the secondary should be enough to show us its working maybe even a little mod of an adverenko plug(single wire transmission)
No one really knows what kind of energy will come of the secondary. is it hf too high were meters wont register it but it might have great electrostatic potentials???????? i think a neon shoould do it for initial tests then maybe a little bank of neons
also ive thought about building electrostatic caps out of glass boylans soda bottles salt water and a metal container with salt water in it. I think that maybe with the potentials were dealing with some old school playing may be necessary to see things modern science has since turned a blind eye to
Whats the diff between how tesla measured cps and how herts measured hz ??
With a smart group like we have here evaluating these questions i bet all the answers are right here just a little discussion needed
All this testing must be done with the thing burried... so wires should be wound to uniform lengths that will give us a wide span of freq response in conjunction with a cheap relay and variable radio cap or whatever is used.. I think i was so intent on making that interrupter work the way stubblefield did and not realizing it was only part of a lrc circuit used to excite magnetic current in an iron core... duh
that i missed what i was really looking for with the device.
even crazier analogy.. when one uses a plunger in the toilet.. did u ever notice that if you do the plunges air tight and at the right pace meaning in meter or proper interval tap your foot like a musician.. (nuts right) that the suction works 9 times better to undo the clog... or in our case release the flow..... let that one rattle around the noggin a bit with the ns coil in mind
QuoteWhats the diff between how tesla measured cps and how herts measured hz ??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radian_per_second
So now my question arises how does the sun affect or determine angular frequency w(omega) of the earth and the other planets. Its the relationship i must understand how the suns gravity affects angular freq .. I know already that planets closer to the sun get stronger gravitational waves imposed on them and that
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_wave
"Two objects orbiting each other in a quasi-Keplerian planar orbit (basically, as a planet would orbit the Sun) will radiate" -wikipedia
Gravity doesent explain it .. it seems that somethiing else here gives energy to our earth to power its electromagnet and keep is spinning. some unknown force from the sun maaybe
Theres a reason tesla preferred cps and i has to do directly with this.
Does the super charged plasma from the solar wind hitting the earth play a more ready part in our planets energy cycle and angular freq than we know?
maybe i should look at this mystery backwards- what kind of power source is needed to keep the earths electromagnet powered creating a magnetic field here and sustaining life. Think of the earth as a em motor i guess most broken down part
so if i were to have a working motor and no power source how would i determine a proper input source for the motor.... this relationship between the sun and earth will unlock the rest if understood.. feel like were close too. weve got way more gagets than the old boys did just not the proper education becuase they dont exist post 1920!!! Fracking oil companies can let any one have anything nice!
I guess all this prolly isnt needed but theres a whole leg of physics thats been left by the wayside and i believe that its up to inventors like us to push forward if for nothing else out of respect for the wall sockets with ac power in our house right now and the pioneering men that tried to lead our world down a better path!
Interesting note
http://peswiki.com/index.php/PowerPedia:John_Keely (http://peswiki.com/index.php/PowerPedia:John_Keely) -credit
Some believe that the research of Nathan Stubblefield and his Earth battery system utilizing copper rods and iron rods. One could sink them in, probably, even at best, utilize Stephan Reiss's method for water-production by drilling very deep into the rock to hit fresh water - so Keely connected with Stubblefield, and Reiss hinted at equals battery-power from the earth's magnetic field using the earth-battery or magnetic induction amplifier of stubblefield, then this can be used for voice transmission over long distances, and also then a specific shape vibrated and driven into the ground, for water-receival.
now that im searching for the right thing its odd how many places its casually mentioned
@Iotayodi
i think your dead on with the tree antennas i looks like theres reports of huge cables going from the trees on the property back to the house it was said that an arc lamp was connected inbetween the tree antenna on the tree and the house...
arc lamp is a hell of a resistive load .. but it would be a constant on all the trees if built the same and would be the "constant" i was looking for concerning the pith ball array.. scary right lets use trees as antennas and well appearently humans must distort there natural magnetic feild enough to cause a change in power to the arc lamp resulting in the movement of a pith ball in teh apporopiate spot on the board in the house
... this might be easily buildable, or at least tryable
http://freeenergyportal.blogspot.com/2011/06/nathan-stubblefield-earth-battery.html - this place doesent mention the pith ball array but talks about the cables from the trees and the arc lamps.. seems to be the other part if it. what do you think?
great quote from that page
Now," Tesla writes later on about the transmitter that he was developing, "I attacked vigorously the development of my magnifying transmitter, now however, not so much with the original intention of producing one of great power, as with the object of learning how to construct the best one. This is essentially, a circuit of high self-induction and small resistance ( key words coming up) which in its arrangement, mode of excitation and section and action, may be said to be the diametrical opposite of a transmitting circuit typical of telegraphy by Hertzian or electromagnetic radiations."
What Stubblefield had discovered and what he did with his system.
Stubblefield was experimenting with ground radio since 1882, but did not patent his developments until much later. Credible witnesses saw his ground radio experiments in action during this time frame, establishing the historical priority of Stubblefield. While Marconi could barely send telegraphic "dots and dash" signals with great difficulty through a static-filled medium, Nathan Stubblefield had already transmitted the human voice with loud, velvet clarity. Others would adopt and implement the Collins system (Fessenden, DeForest, Bethenod, Braun), but none could duplicate the Stubblefield System.
Nikola Tesla performed double ground experiments with impulses as early as 1892, reporting these in lectures and patenting some embodiments in 1901. Not one of these later systems ever achieved the same results of clarity, tone, and volume of Stubblefield ground telephony. Tesla apparently never discovered the true powerpoints which powered Stubblefield's device. Priority in all these arts belongs to Nathan Stubblefield alone. In addition, his was the only system in which natural energies were obtained, magnified, and entirely employed as the empowering source. All other inventors used "artificial" sources (batteries, alternators, dynamos).
Regarding the relationship between the sun and the earth, this mayb= have some relevance here.
http://coupmedia.org/astro-physics/earth-does-not-orbit-the-sun-2707
Regards...
Localjoe:
Man, it is really great to see you back here again. We have sure come a long way since you stuck those screws into the ground. I don't have much time these days but I am glad to see the work continuing here. I agree with your latest posts and one day, all of this will come together.
In a related technology, have you seen what has been happening in the Kapanadze topic area? Already one replication and I know that technology is related to Stubblefield.
Bill
@Cap-Z-ro Astounding videos. Everyone should watch these.
Interesting picture I never came accross before. My apologies if this was laready posted and I missed it. At any rate it has the name Love on its right edge, the person assigned 1/2 of the 1898 patent. These appear as standard inductive coils of the era and not exactly the coils outlined in the patent. But there are general constructional and proporational similarities between the coils in the picture and the cross sectional diagrams in the patent. I really like the big fat primary wires, no screwing around and such tidy windings too. I used to harp about winding cleanliness on this and other forums in the past. At any rate I thought the picture highly interesting.
Hello Bill, Joe and all,
Having worked on this project a long time ago, you should know that through my work on the TPU, I think I have a way to make more power from this, using laser sabers setup!
Do any of you guys have one built, to test with?
Cheers,
Bruce
Bruce,
I do have a new coil constructed. I have yet to experiment with it yet. Take a look at the picture I posted above. My latest coil is much like this, almost identical in fact. I took the liberty of using better materials however. My copper wire was custom produced for me and has a water permeable nylon weave insulation as opposed to cotton. The nylon will not degrade like coils I built previously that incorporated cotton insulation. For insulation between winding layers I use battery grade Hollingsworth&Vose seperator paper. The 'paper' description is just an industry used term. Its actual material is a water permeable synthetic material that will also not readily degrade like cotton. I was quite generous in the applied thickness of this seperator paper (thickness = 1/3 that of the wire diameter). 14Ga wire was utilized for the main windings. Windings are tight and neat just like the picture. I do not use winding apparatus, they are all done by hand. A very hard task because of the guage involved but I take my time to get it right. The main windings were wound in a fashion that will allow complete experimentation of different formats/strategies.
Many people (probably all), use these Stubblefield systems with a secondary coil being the only tappable source of power. I'm not falling into that trap. A secondary used in this fashion is a nice little gimmick at best. I will still build a secondary, but not in the common format everyone else does. It will be a slide over the primary coil design that is removable. Furthermore it will be built using the 'slice' method. With each slice dimensioned and wound to take best advantage of available magnetic field in any particular spot on the overall coil. Actually 2 secondaries will be built. One that soaks up field with an oscillating primary (what every shmoe does) and a second primary that operates the system totally backwards. For experimentation's sake, an english manufactured resonant circuit will be utilized. It has a very wide frequency range that is adjustable. Tishitang + ground antenna logic will be the basis of all experimentation moving forward. I have already experimented with ground antenna philosophy and it is VERY interesting to say the least. Somewhere in this forum are posts on the subject.
With warm weather setting in and the ground thawing, I look forward to getting to work and in the ground (where the power is).
@MW383 (http://www.overunity.com/../../../../../../profile/mw383.21150/)
What type of steel did you use on the core? What type of iron wire?
Quote from: IotaYodi on March 15, 2012, 06:26:58 PM
@MW383 (http://www.overunity.com/../../../../../../profile/mw383.21150/)
What type of steel did you use on the core? What type of iron wire?
Core material = 1018 steel rod stock.
Iron wire = 14ga annealed (I do not know specific metallurgical specs). Using annealed variety is critical because it is soft and able to be wound easily. I do sand the wire before winding onto the coil. I basically take the black colored surface off with the sandpaper, thus leaving shiny bare steel. I am no anneal expert but understand it is a controlled increase in temperature followed by controlled cool down. It softens the metal basically. The black color is unknown to me. I guess it to be oxides but am not sure. I just got rid of it with the sandpaper before winding to the coil.
Nothing fancy with either of these materials. I have half a mind to make a bundled style core using small diameter rod stock but I have not gotten around to it again. So for now I am using crude solid core like Stubblefield did. Nothing in my latest coil is crazy or exotic. I did use improved insulative type materials but they were chosen for their ability to not degrade. I doubt whether they have any impact on performance. My goal with this latest coil was to build a very clean one. So the primary is on and looks quite like the William Love photograph I just posted. I have to collect materials still before I can start on the 2 secondaries I have planned. I also will be trying a mumetal based magnetic sheilding on the outside of the secondary coil. The purpose here is to better confine and utilize induced currents. This is more of an efficiency thing with me and won't be an earth shattering improvement to this system.
Quote from: MW383 on March 15, 2012, 11:04:05 AM
Bruce,
I do have a new coil constructed. I have yet to experiment with it yet. Take a look at the picture I posted above. My latest coil is much like this, almost identical in fact. I took the liberty of using better materials however. My copper wire was custom produced for me and has a water permeable nylon weave insulation as opposed to cotton. The nylon will not degrade like coils I built previously that incorporated cotton insulation. For insulation between winding layers I use battery grade Hollingsworth&Vose seperator paper. The 'paper' description is just an industry used term. Its actual material is a water permeable synthetic material that will also not readily degrade like cotton. I was quite generous in the applied thickness of this seperator paper (thickness = 1/3 that of the wire diameter). 14Ga wire was utilized for the main windings. Windings are tight and neat just like the picture. I do not use winding apparatus, they are all done by hand. A very hard task because of the guage involved but I take my time to get it right. The main windings were wound in a fashion that will allow complete experimentation of different formats/strategies.
Many people (probably all), use these Stubblefield systems with a secondary coil being the only tappable source of power. I'm not falling into that trap. A secondary used in this fashion is a nice little gimmick at best. I will still build a secondary, but not in the common format everyone else does. It will be a slide over the primary coil design that is removable. Furthermore it will be built using the 'slice' method. With each slice dimensioned and wound to take best advantage of available magnetic field in any particular spot on the overall coil. Actually 2 secondaries will be built. One that soaks up field with an oscillating primary (what every shmoe does) and a second primary that operates the system totally backwards. For experimentation's sake, an english manufactured resonant circuit will be utilized. It has a very wide frequency range that is adjustable. Tishitang + ground antenna logic will be the basis of all experimentation moving forward. I have already experimented with ground antenna philosophy and it is VERY interesting to say the least. Somewhere in this forum are posts on the subject.
With warm weather setting in and the ground thawing, I look forward to getting to work and in the ground (where the power is).
Hi MW383,
I'm sorry, but I don't see the picture. Please post it so I can have a look see. I think I may know a way to use positive feedback into the primary. The current from this will increase the magnetic field by a little, thus increasing the output, etc. And I have an idea how to get some of this current to feedback. But it will take a setup like lasersabers, with the magnets acting as a make and break, to make this happen, I think.
Let me know if your interested.
Cheers,
Bruce
QuoteI'm sorry, but I don't see the picture. Please post it so I can have a look see. I think I may know a way to use positive feedback into the primary
I think this is the pic he is referring to.
Can you elaborate on the positive feedback. I assume you mean through the single wire secondary.
Quote from: IotaYodi on March 16, 2012, 08:45:54 AM
I think this is the pic he is referring to.
Can you elaborate on the positive feedback. I assume you mean through the single wire secondary.
Hi Iota Yodi,
I would try both. First try the secondary by adding a little current, and then try it into the primary. One would need a way to measure the strength of the B field and see if there is any increase. I believe there would be. That would be step 1. Step 2 would be working on producing just enough current (I can help with this) from the aforementioned B field, to kick start the process.
Cheers,
Bruce
someone may know whats going on here . take an aluminum plate , one very rusty steel plate and a gal pipe or bolt.
weld the gal bolt or gal pipe to the rusty steel plate so that the rusty plate makes a base for the bolt or pipe. clamp the rusty plate to the aluminum plate, now take a lead and connect it to an earth stake the other end connect to the aluminum plate. now thate your meter and place the probes between the aluminum plate and the gal .
i assume this is "The rusty bolt effect" is a description of radio interference due to interactions with dirty connections or corroded parts. but assumptions can be wrong .regards to all kwem
Iota,
was just going through the forum and found your posting on your buying the cotton covered wire. You might try a local motor rewind business. We have one here and he has been around for a while. He has several 5000 and 10000 feet rolls of old cotton coated wire 18 and 20 gage. He no longer needs it. Been setting on shelf for years. I buy as much as I like for 5.00 a pound. Great find. You might try the same. Well I will go back to sleep now! :)
Hi all !
It was difficult for me to find the cotton covered wire and I decided to do
the Nathan stubblefield earth coil by another way. I separated the steel wire ( Ø = 1 mm) and the copper wire ( Ø = 0.8 mm, 50 m) by linen thread ( Ø = 1 mm). So I have had 4 strands (see the pictures). After each layer I used the masking tape (it is porous and is glued when wet) and one layer of linen thread. And so on.
The potential difference of the finished dry coil was between 250 to 620 mV (maybe, depends on the orientation and time of day). In distilled water the potential difference quickly risen to 850 mV, pulled out of the water - the potential difference all the time now stays from 750 to 780 mV, the coil is dry to the touch. The compass needle deviates slightly if the copper and iron contacts were breefly closed. With 9 V battery hang the copper and iron contacts (the other two are open), the compass needle deviates much. But the battery is not discharging ! You can use this free 'flash' of magnetic field for another purpose â€" motors, coils ... etc. Instead of 9 V battery you can use another source, but before breakdown. Add that, when battery is hooked, the coil behaves as a capacitor with a rather large leak.
Choro:
Nice work. I made 2 of mine the same way you did. Mine were much thinner though. I like your observations.
Bill
Hello everyone,
I have been interested in Alt Energy devices for years...I'm constantly researching, watching YouTube videos and Reasoning out Ideas.
I started reading your thread from the beginning...got through about 30 pages....realized there were 268...skipped ahead to catch up.
I am really excited about how far everyone has gotten.
I am going to make a statement, not to sound like a know it all. I have known for a long time it was resonance and frequency based. I just could not afford to
build something. Your diagrams and instructions have inspired me to build a coil...i believe if we get a variable capacitor and "tune" the primary to the earth or telluric currents it will "ring" it.
then make the secondary resonate to the primary.....i believe i read that Tesla used 1/4 wave and Full wave coils to resonate. If I'm incorrect please let me know.
As for the "galvanic" action...i believe that it's a dead end. anyway, i bought some 22awg wire..2 spools of about 90ft each...as a starting point. I'm unemployed right now so this
will take me some time to build.
thanks for listening.
Andrew
I just bought a 9 inch long 1/2 inch rare soft iron iron (iron/rubber)and 5 pounds of cotton covered to start my large self powered dry stubblefield coil to run a pulse motor like lasersaber . This rod is 100 time more magnetic field than steel and demagnetizes itself instantly with no trace of magnetizing on power removal at all but the electromagnetic forger energized with just a small amount of copper wire is extremely powerful . . at 20 dollars for this one of a kind rare rod it is pricey but i believe it is exactly what Stubblefield used. on the other hand i got the 5 pounds of #22 wire for 20 bucks . It is also about 40 years old and in a large folgers coffee can full from top to bottom about 1200 feet + . more than i need for one i am sure . It will be a monster coil however so i will see if size matters .Now i need a source for some soft iron wire that is easy to wind . Anyone?
@ Gadgetmall,
Home Depot sells a soft black iron wire in a 5 or 6 inch diameter coil for a few dollars. I tried making a TPU with it. I think it's probably for tying page wire fence to posts on the farm. I don't know what kind of quality it is, but if nothing else materializes, it might be a cheap option to try.
Bob
http://www.mcmaster.com/#metal-wire/=k2xmn2
Black oxide 1008. Its about $30 for 960 feet for 14 gauge.
1008 chemistry
Iron (Fe) 99%
Carbon (C) 0.08%
Manganese (Mn) 0.6% max
Phosphorus (P) 0.035% max
Copper (Cu) 0.2% min
Sulfur (S) 0.04%
This topic seems pretty cool, but I'm not about to sit down and read through ~260 pages to take it all in. I'm really just curious about the highest power output someone has gotten from an earth battery so far. Saw the short video with the guy supposedly getting 1.8 amps, but that didn't seem very reliable. I want to see how feasible this really is as a source of energy, and sourcing tens or hundrends of microamps just ain't gonna cut it.
So then, what is the highest power output or current output someone has gotten? What design did you use? And did you notice any changes that directly alter available current?
Thanks
G'day all,
@Krb686, you would be doing yourself a great dis-service if you didn't attempt to read some of the previous posts.
Some of the best results and breakthroughs have been may by people who do not post here very often, so they are not going to hear your request. jeanna for one put a hell of a lot of work in as has Bill. It ain't gonna fall in your lap.
See you all later
Ian
Hello
@ Pirate 88179
Apologies for not replying before now.
Thank you for your input to my request for info on earth batteries. For your information, my brother lost interest when I could not come up with an instant fix for his energy problems. I told him what you said about solar power being his best bet. His response was to go out and buy a brand new motorbike... (?) Yeah, I didn't get it either. But that's my brother for you.
However, you have piqued my curiosity about earth batteries in general.
@all
I have downloaded the whole of this thread for offline reading, and am currently wading through it. Interesting stuff. I have a question or two, which I hope someone can answer:
1] Has anyone here come up with a standard testing procedure regarding size and material type of electrode?
2] Have the experimenters here decided on a definite distance apart for the electrodes?
3] Is there a preferred set of instruments for carrying out these tests?
4] Has anyone attempted to 'prime the pump' (as one person described it) by injecting an electrical charge or pulse into the ground?
I have already carried out some tests, with some success in two locations approximately 500 miles apart. I got readings at both sites, but so far I do not know what my readings mean, hence the questions above. With regard to question 4 above, I tried feeding a voltage of around 12V into my ground electrodes for 1 minute. I expected the earth to just adsorb the charge instantly with no change in readings. That did not happen, and consequently I decided that everything I had learned in college 40 years ago, was a load of cock!
Any advice will be most appreciated.
Pat
Quote from: Krb686 on March 18, 2013, 10:52:19 PM
This topic seems pretty cool, but I'm not about to sit down and read through ~260 pages to take it all in. I'm really just curious about the highest power output someone has gotten from an earth battery so far. Saw the short video with the guy supposedly getting 1.8 amps, but that didn't seem very reliable. I want to see how feasible this really is as a source of energy, and sourcing tens or hundrends of microamps just ain't gonna cut it.
So then, what is the highest power output or current output someone has gotten? What design did you use? And did you notice any changes that directly alter available current?
Krb686 has a point. I read in a construction manual for earth batteries years ago the even if the output lugs on top of each cell were buried 6" in the ground, one could still get a bad electrical shock from a big system.
Oh, how 'bout that? Through 6" of dirt?
The originators of the information implied they were dealing with something more or different and electricity. I vaguely remember something about aetheric currents in the ground. It was actually a couple of decades ago when I read the report.
--Lee
Seems like this thread got magnetized and doesn't allow flow anymore, pity after reading the whole thing on my spare time over the last two weeks.
I do feel I know all of you like if I was living all this when it was happening years ago. I know I'm a stranger to you all, but you are not strangers to me.
Bedini, you are a class act even if you didn't contribute to this thread until later.
What I mean by class act, is your praise to LaserSaber (another class act). Your admittance towards your learning from LaserSaber shows your true benevolent character. And so is LaserSaber's whom I followed as well as you even if my stumbling to this thread has nothing to do with you two, it was the going back to Stubblefield that land me here.
Joe, Bill, Jeanna, Jim. Outstanding jobs as well and a lot of perseverance. Always with a mind open other than Joe's futile and commendable attempt to keep this on target at the beginning, but it all did pay up at the end, Bill's messing up his coils to get more by adding either salt or vinegar (btw love them salt and vinegar chips), Jeanna by trying her best to grasp into what is going on like a child with her eyes full of discovery, and Jim, a Saint by having more patience in life than anyone that I've ever met.
Yeah,i'm not mentioning a lot of other people, not on purpose but because of my reason to be here.
Well, the reason I did sign up to overunity was to raise a concern that might not be too visible in this thread even if some hints are there.
I'm not concerned that someone didn't actually combined an aerial to an earth battery as suggested, not that the thread is slowing down to a crawl.
I'm all for free energy, as in: "don't pay for it" and I think it should be a right for everyone in this planet (to have free energy).
But (and there is always a but), the energy does come from the electromagnetic field from mother Earth.
My point, although not researched, and just my common sense kicking in, is that a few experimenters tapping on the field won't affect it much, but (there is that but again) if this really was optimized and took off! what will be the price of that "free" energy?
No one has addressed that issue, and I find that as disturbing as when scientists didn't know for sure if the first atomic blast will burn our atmosphere.
That electromagnetic field is shielding us from a lot of harm and there is a balance in nature that must be respected. And before you mention that man-made fields are everywhere, they don't affect the Earth's output since they don't tap from it (although they do disturb it but they don't destroy it).
So say, there is a successful way to tap into Earth's field. Has anyone wondered or tried to study what impact will that have on the magnetic field that shields us from harmful energies if all our energy needs were met by this potential technology?
So what if we made a model of Earth with a permanent magnet (I know it's more complicated than that) and rotate it and since the magnetic field doesn't rotate we could generate power from that model. How would the magnetic field of that permanent magnet will be affected by it? will it disturb it enough that it would allow unwanted external interactions?
I don't have any doubt that there is a sea of energy all around us, but (there is that word again) is it wise to farm that energy without studying the consequences first? After all, there is no free anything, it all has consequences and a price must be paid.
History has proven that many times over.
We should focus more into Nature instead and how it cooperates with those energies without destroying them. They also use electrical currents, but not "electricity". Don't dismiss when someone like Eric Dollard says that our current electricity represents destruction and makes no harmonious waves when discharged, just the opposite it's more like a sound that will bring us an emergency feeling like something is not right. Don't get me wrong, I love sparks as anyone else.
I'm not saying there is no surplus of energy, but going over the surplus and how is used, might (and it's just a theory) be more detrimental than all the crap we put in the atmosphere.
So after all this rambling because it's hard to convey in a public forum all my thoughts. My concern still exists, would this type of energy farming be detrimental even if it looks free?
Take for example farming gravity influences from the Moon to the Oceans, would that gathering of energy at a large scale affect the gravitational pull between the Earth and the Moon?
I'm all for research, but our innate human Nature prevents us from seeing down the road how it would affect us. We tend to discover first then deal with the consequences later.
We should think always before making any decision on what consequences would it have generations ahead, it's not about us now, it's all about us in the future, we are just the gatekeepers of that future.
It also doesn't help that we don't trust anyone, someone has a different view or doesn't understand something they are considered disinformation agents. I've lurked for a while and I've seen this over and over again. People with a common goal ganging up on each other and attacking each other. There is no "They" and even if "They" did exist, we do ok suppressing our own dammed selves without any external help (maybe "They" are tapping on our electromagnetic field that is supposed to protect us).
I did leave a lot unsaid, but don't want to make this reply longer than what it is, and I just want to ignite something that we have been missing all along on our walks through this Earth, respect for Nature first since our entanglement is with Nature first, and Nature doesn't need us, but we do need Nature.
As some may already know, Lost Sciences by Gerry Vassilatos has a great chapter, IMO, on Stubblefield. What interests me is that people in the books on Stubblefield and others repeat again and again that the source used to provide 'power' for the grounded devices is said to be vegetative, plant-like in nature (growing stronger over time) and will saturate metal conduits, electrical and mechanical devices, and even dried out earth battery plates. I take that to mean it grows stronger over time. Look into science surrounding the unique problems of Telegraphy to see what this might mean. The force permeating the iron telegraph wires was said to saturate telegraph stations creating a radiant black aura around the building which could even be photographed.
Vril energy and Odic force or Od energy is said to be vegetative in nature also. Its touch is said to send a thrill through a person's body instead of being painful like electric shocks. There seem to be some interesting literature on the Vril Society and Thule society operating around WWII, btw.
Philo Farnsworth's custom-made vacuum tubes were said to radiate this blackness also even through the glass at times. His Fusor tube did this and it was supposed to be a cheap overunity device utilizing hot fusion with deuterium/tritium gas. Arguably, he was the real father of television.
Anyway, it seems the earth batteries were only needed for a short time to 'prime the pump' as many telegraph stations operated for years after the batteries dried up. The view in Lost Sciences is that the DC battery power attracts this ground energy enabling it to saturate any metal devices and structures above and below ground. I believe it was Tesla who suggested that a metal-hulled flying craft could translate through space at tremendous speeds by simultaneously decompressing the ether in front of it with rapidly varying DC power, and compressing the ether behind it with high frequency AC power. The importance of DC power seems to return again and again in these books. IMO, the use of carbon seems to be of importance also. The energy obtained often appeared in the form of purple or violet jets in the literature that waxed and waned with solar and lunar cycles, CME's, and sunspots.
I'm jumping in without having read this thread in quite a while, so I hope I'm not repeating anyone else's post.
I've come across some YT videos on multiferroics and their unique potential for generating electricity. Chief among their most common varieties are Iron Oxide and Copper Oxide. There are quite a few videos out there, some more technical than others. Here's an interesting intro:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KfySbeVO4M
I've seen the occasional forum member post something about the rust on SC wires possibly being an important element in their ability to produce electricity. In light of current research on multi-ferroics, this seems to be more of a possibility. In short, when a magnet interacts with a multi-ferroic, a potential difference is induced as long as the magnet is in its vicinity (without having to move across the metal/wire). The deduction for me is that the interaction between the earth's magnetic field and the SB may well produce the same effect.
I realize this will go against the experience of some who have been producing voltage with moistened iron and copper windings. I can't help but wonder if the potential difference produced by these units is actually the fruit of a galvanic effect between the two metals on the coil.
Perhaps Stubblefield stumbled on the multi-ferroic-magnetic interaction as a way to produce useable power, using simple rusting iron wire coils.
Bob
OK I have an idea, in order to make a battery coil as shown in the attached patent, in this day and age we might consider using galvanized steel wire rather than iron wire for one element and bare copper or (maybe carbon filament or some other appropriate wire-thread), Back in Nathans day iron wire was likely abundant but not now, galvanized steel wire and copper should work just as well or maybe better.
And for insulating between each wire so there is no metallic connection between wires we could use some cotton or natural fiber thread/string. between each layer we could use regular cotton cloth or similar. We can get bare copper wire in a number of ways and galvanized steel "tie wire" is cheap and plentiful in appropriate gauges,as well the galvanized coating gives better voltage than iron as far as I can tell.
Then the outer secondary could can be regular insulated magnet wire.
To operate the battery (we wet it) and to utilize the secondary we would use an oscillator make and break on the primary "coil battery" section and the variations in the magnetic flux will induce a voltage in the secondary of whatever tension the winding ratio produces and at whatever frequency the oscillator is run at. Sounds simple, I'll give it a go.
The limitations are the voltage produced by the battery coil section and the resistance of the shorted battery coil arrangement, the resistance being the current limiter.
..
Anyone know what chemical I would use to remove the coating from magnet wire ?
..
Hey guys..I am new to this site but have been reading non stop since I joined and I apologize if someone has asked this already...but was wondering if anyone knows what he was using the capacitors for? Is it possible he used them to (for the lack of a better way to say it) shock the 3rd winding on the coil? maybe intensifying something magnetically? I've seen lasersaber's video where he would check the end with a compass on each winding and the reaction would increase with each winding..maybe shock the coil to magnetically draw current faster therefore producing higher output? its been said that the 3rd winding was possibly used as a trigger of some sort...I haven't seen anyone make mention of this and is probably a stupid question but was just a thought..thanks..Corey.
Here's my first Earth Battery. I am wondering if anyone has any ideas on how to get more power out of 2 grounds.
Earth Battery With Just 2 Grounds
http://youtu.be/Avp7bkLRlAA
Quote from: tgraca on December 27, 2014, 02:09:45 PM
Here's my first Earth Battery. I am wondering if anyone has any ideas on how to get more power out of 2 grounds.
Earth Battery With Just 2 Grounds
http://youtu.be/Avp7bkLRlAA (http://youtu.be/Avp7bkLRlAA)
I left a comment on your video...nice work.
First, to get the best output, try to get metals as far away from each other on the galvanic scale. The easiest to obtain are carbon rods, and magnesium. These are very far apart on the chart.
Carbon goes into the ground to the north (north south Meridian, not Magnetic north) and Mg to the south. It is easily possible that you are picking up a lot of noise from items grounded in your house circuit. However, I did see very large spikes on my scope shots of my EB and it is not tied to any electrical connections at all.
With the addition of some super caps, or even large boostcaps, you will then be able to run all sorts of cool things from your set-up. (48" floro tube, 400 leds, Bedini motor, etc.)
Check out my youtube videos if interested.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on December 27, 2014, 03:25:39 PM
I left a comment on your video...nice work.
First, to get the best output, try to get metals as far away from each other on the galvanic scale. The easiest to obtain are carbon rods, and magnesium. These are very far apart on the chart.
Carbon goes into the ground to the north (north south Meridian, not Magnetic north) and Mg to the south. It is easily possible that you are picking up a lot of noise from items grounded in your house circuit. However, I did see very large spikes on my scope shots of my EB and it is not tied to any electrical connections at all.
With the addition of some super caps, or even large boostcaps, you will then be able to run all sorts of cool things from your set-up. (48" floro tube, 400 leds, Bedini motor, etc.)
Check out my youtube videos if interested.
Bill
Thanks Bill. I have some 20 F caps and will try that. I think the first thing I will do is plug in a replication I did of one of
magnetman2010's modified replications. I love that old fart! lol
I have seen some of your videos, but will make it a point to go through them again. Don't tell me I have something
better to do with my time! lol
PS - I have been looking for a long time for a source of magnesium and carbon rods for less than $10/pound. Any suggestions?
You inquired about materials sourcing for my eb, so I will try to help.
The accurate info is posted waaayyyy back in this topic but I will try to remember ...
The carbon rods I have were actually just one long 1" dia. x 20" long, or thereabouts carbon rod. I got this from a local company called AirGas. These are called welding rods and are used for special welding applications. Some of the carbon rods you will find have copper caps on one or both ends. Mine was just a pure carbon rod.
I used those magnesium fire starter blocks for a while as they were cheap and readily available. Then, I discovered that, a local company that supplies Propane has these large magnesium blocks used to stop in ground tank corrosion. The one I got was 5 pounds, was rated at 1 amp. and had a nice heavy wire lead imbedded in it and it was also encased in a heavy canvass bag filled with potash, which if memory serves, aids the magnesium in having better contact with the earth. I believe I paid about $40.00 for this and they had to order it. This was about 7 years ago or so.
If you have any questions, let me know.
Bill
$40 seems too much... I can get 10' of 1/2" diameter copper pipe for $11 locally, so that would be the most
I would pay for a ground. I can get 10' of iron for about the same price, so that may be the solution. It's not
as good as magnesium, but it will work. I will probably work with what I have for now and possibly expand on
that when it gets warmer and I am ready to break ground on a new ground. Thanks!
ref: lowes.com
PS - if you have that source, please pass it back. That may be a good solution for my crystal battery research.
Quote from: miguelvp on October 24, 2013, 03:09:38 AM
Bedini, you are a class act even if you didn't contribute to this thread until later.
I'm not concerned that someone didn't actually combined an aerial to an earth battery as suggested, not that the thread is slowing down to a crawl.
Answer:
Okay, look at tis...
https://www.google.com/search?site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1024&bih=576&q=long+wire+antenna+design&oq=long+wire+&gs_l=img.1.4.0l10.7813.11845.0.16919.10.9.0.1.1.0.88.489.9.9.0.msedr...0...1ac.1.60.img..0.10.487.xDXjdf85gUs#tbm=isch&q=long+wire+antenna+design+overunity+relay+earth+battery&facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=NcSiJR0qsXM6uM%253A%3Byimlk-R26Cxi4M%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.free-energy-info.co.uk%252FCh5%252FFig364.gif%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.free-energy-info.co.uk%252FChapt5.html%3B405%3B186
This invention has an aerial and it can be made longer wit a VERY long wire at #25 on the drawing.
I'm all for free energy, as in: "don't pay for it" and I think it should be a right for everyone in this planet (to have free energy).
Answer:
I agree, but the economy can implode shortly And Ive been paying attention to that possibility for quite a while.
But (and there is always a but), the energy does come from the electromagnetic field from mother Earth.
The POWERS THAT BE know this as well. They have a stranglehold on the world and won't give it up sort of death.
--Lee
Quote from: Farmhand on June 02, 2014, 12:52:03 AM
OK I have an idea, in order to make a battery coil as shown in the attached patent, in this day and age we might consider using galvanized steel wire rather than iron wire for one element and bare copper or (maybe carbon filament or some other appropriate wire-thread), Back in Nathans day iron wire was likely abundant but not now, galvanized steel wire and copper should work just as well or maybe better.
And for insulating between each wire so there is no metallic connection between wires we could use some cotton or natural fiber thread/string. between each layer we could use regular cotton cloth or similar. We can get bare copper wire in a number of ways and galvanized steel "tie wire" is cheap and plentiful in appropriate gauges,as well the galvanized coating gives better voltage than iron as far as I can tell.
Then the outer secondary could can be regular insulated magnet wire.
To operate the battery (we wet it) and to utilize the secondary we would use an oscillator make and break on the primary "coil battery" section and the variations in the magnetic flux will induce a voltage in the secondary of whatever tension the winding ratio produces and at whatever frequency the oscillator is run at. Sounds simple, I'll give it a go.
The limitations are the voltage produced by the battery coil section and the resistance of the shorted battery coil arrangement, the resistance being the current limiter.
..
Anyone know what chemical I would use to remove the coating from magnet wire ?
..
Farmhand:
Sorry I did not see your post here until now. Here is a photo of a coil I made way back when utilizing just what you described. Iron wire and copper wire separated by cotton string wound on a galvanized iron core. It did pretty well for a while, until I decide to "improve" the output by pouring a little vinegar on it. The output really increased for a bit and then.....nothing, ha ha. Oh well, live and learn.
Bill
Quote from: tgraca on December 27, 2014, 02:09:45 PM
So, I ran a quick test on materials to determine which ones to work with, which I included in this video.
http://youtu.be/T_SlWrkbc_g
I just stopped into the local hardware store in invested another $3.09 into large bolts of various materials.
It seems aluminum and copper is my best bet. I did find some 1/4" copper pipe for $0.99/foot which
might be a better solution than copper pipe. It costs a bit less than the 1/2" diameter pipe per foot and
I can "wrap" it into a coil. I would have to drive about 60 miles round trip to pick up the copper ground
wire, so I am leaning toward this now.
Your comments and suggestions are appreciated. Here's the first draft of what I have in mind. I am
thinking in terms of 30 earth batteries in series to get 18 volts. I will probably have to run 3-4 rows of
these batteries to make them fit my back yard. That's about 300 feet of insulated copper wire to
connect the rows (pos to neg per row) and about 300' of un-insulated aluminum to connect the earth
batteries (pos to neg per battery), plus the metal in the earth batteries.
I have a few months to plan and do the initial tests and plan to run some 1, 2 and 3 cell tests initially
before I make that kind of commitment. I would like to get at least 1 amp per battery to create 18 watts
(18 volts times 1 amp), but I may need a large design per earth battery.
Again, I look forward to any comments and suggestions as I read through this thread.
Earth battery cost analysis: I can get a pallet of solar panels delivered for $1,500, which (with an average
of 8 hours per day) equates to 28,000 watt hours per day, or 28 kWh per day. The disadvantage of solar
panels is that they are above ground, have to be mounted in some way (mount costs) and may occasionally
have to be cleaned, maintained, or snow shoveled off the panels. I always recommend a back yard
installation if possible, but that still takes up A LOT of space and is ugly in my opinion and at least hard to
incorporate elegantly into your backyard space. It takes significant landscaping skills and is expensive to
make the panels look at least ok and much more to make them look really cool. Making basic mounts out
of treated wood would cost at least $500 in materials, so lets round it to $2,000 for 28 kWh per day, or
~ $0.07 per watt hour per day.
If I can meet my goal of 18 volts at 1 amp, that's 18 watt hours, but this is 24 hours per day, which equates
to 432 watt hours per day (24 hours times 18 watts). Based on the the material costs, I am anticipating the
cost per 30 earth battery system to be about $52, or $0.12 per watt hour.
So, at best, it's more expensive, but has the advantages mentioned (everything is underground / it's
unobtrusive), plus there is a lower investment to get started (about $80 versus $1,500).
Issue... can I really get 18 watts per 30 earth batteries? If less, then that increases the cost per watt hour.
Your thoughts?
Quote from: tgraca on December 28, 2014, 11:40:09 AM
I just stopped into the local hardware store in invested another $3.09 into large bolts of various materials.
It seems aluminum and copper is my best bet. I did find some 1/4" copper pipe for $0.99/foot which
might be a better solution than copper pipe. It costs a bit less than the 1/2" diameter pipe per foot and
I can "wrap" it into a coil. I would have to drive about 60 miles round trip to pick up the copper ground
wire, so I am leaning toward this now.
Your comments and suggestions are appreciated. Here's the first draft of what I have in mind. I am
thinking in terms of 30 earth batteries in series to get 18 volts. I will probably have to run 3-4 rows of
these batteries to make them fit my back yard. That's about 300 feet of insulated copper wire to
connect the rows (pos to neg per row) and about 300' of un-insulated aluminum to connect the earth
batteries (pos to neg per battery), plus the metal in the earth batteries.
I have a few months to plan and do the initial tests and plan to run some 1, 2 and 3 cell tests initially
before I make that kind of commitment. I would like to get at least 1 amp per battery to create 18 watts
(18 volts times 1 amp), but I may need a large design per earth battery.
Again, I look forward to any comments and suggestions as I read through this thread.
I had tried several years ago to wire up my eb in series with no success. It was explained to me (waaay back in this topic) that I would not be able to do so as
my electrodes all shared the same electrolyte. (The earth)
I have seen videos where folks work around this by using dirt in containers sitting on their deck and thereby they are isolated, but I am not sure that this would really be an earth battery then. My guess is that if they did a scope shot of that arrangement, there would be no large spikes seen. Also, I believe they would see degradation of their cathodes.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on December 28, 2014, 03:43:54 PM
I had tried several years ago to wire up my eb in series with no success. It was explained to me (waaay back in this topic) that I would not be able to do so as my electrodes all shared the same electrolyte. (The earth)
Although I haven't "seen" this done on YouTube or anywhere else, I have interviewed an inventor that has
moved his free energy device to Asia (because the US harassed him - he will sell everywhere but the US),
and he said he had done this successfully. He said the electrodes need to be at least 10' apart for this to work.
His system is 4 posts in a square, each with a 6-filer with 5 leads attached to the ground per 6-filer,
12 wraps above ground for each of the posts (120' per ground), and somehow he gets 6 circuits out of this...
I never understood how to do this, but I am a month overdue for another phone call, so maybe I can get
this clarified. I have done several drawings, but I can not visually reconcile 6 circuits with 4 grounds and
4 six-filars. I just left him a message. Hopefully he will get back with me this week and clarify this.
Anyway... I will test this 10' idea soon.
Quote from: tgraca on December 28, 2014, 04:07:35 PM
Although I haven't "seen" this done on YouTube or anywhere else, I have heard the electrodes need to be at least 10' apart for this to work.
Anyway... I will test this 10' idea soon.
So here's the test... also, I have tested the power of 2 cells with 2' of copper pipe 1/2" diameter.
http://youtu.be/ddogZ9EOLsk
I will have to think about where to go from here. One thing for sure, I can get much more power from crystal batteries for 1/20th the
cost of materials and they work in series.
@ tgraca
Just popping in here after a long abstance (I usually been in the Stubblefield and Joulthief forums) , was intereresting to read up on your solar remarks, if you are going in that direction the lowest voltage I reccomend is 24 volts (or higher). wish Stephan would put a spell checker in this web site, I have ADHD.
I once made a huge earth battery, way back in the threads somewhere, (Pirate would know where, hi Bill), I also discovered like Bill, the cells need to be insulated from each other, I used copper pipe and the center electrode was galvanised nails, all cells connected in series, in a stright line, took the output into the house and could light up a bedroom with a white LED.
Ended up blowing the LED when I connected too many cells LOL, (had about 60 cells) I mucked around with connecting cells in strings of Series and Parallel.
Could charge up capacitors, even a super capacitor and was able to use useful voltage but a flood wyped out the experiment in Christmas of 2010 but it was interresting at the time.
I would be interrested in this set of 4 cells set out in a square that you know of, just draw a "plan" of the setup like you would be looking down at the cells, showing how they are connected
You could try this experiment, setup a sensitive moving coil meter, connect wires to the back of it, connect the other ends of the wires to a steel post in the ground, then connect the other wire to another steel rod, then place the meter where you can watch it.
Next take just ONE rod and start to move it backwards and forwards in the ground, slowely moving it backwards and forwards, the meter needle will begin to snap backwards and forwards too.
There is NO battery in the circuit, so where is the energy coming from to move the needle in the meter? is it friction or earth energy?
I have done this experiment many times, it does work. ;)
Keep up the good work
It's doesn't take much aluminum and copper to produce enough power to my simplified JT circuit,
which powers an LED as brightly as a cheap $1 yard light.
These could be made so the metals are at the bottom of the pointed end of the yard light.
- Of course, the metals can not be touching or it shorts the earth battery.
The key advantage is that there is no solar panel or battery. It also runs 24/7.
I welcome anyone to take this technology and have it mass produced.
I would like to find these in the $1 store instead of the ones I use.
Quote from: tgraca on December 28, 2014, 11:40:09 AM
Your comments and suggestions are appreciated. Here's the first draft of what I have in mind. I am
thinking in terms of 30 earth batteries in series to get 18 volts.
When I lived on the streets in Oklahoma City, I built a similar system that was even simpler:
A spliced, copper 2-conductor with garbage-found,
heavy aluminum strapping wire from a commercial palleted shipment amongst more pallets in a vacant field. Supports were rebar lengths beaten into the ground and then having aluminum wires as alternating support:
Fe---Al---Fe---Al---Fe---Al---
The return wire was the intact half of the 2-conductor in one single piece that was connected to a copper pipe, pounded into the dry ground about 6", as my earth ground. I got 1/2 volt immediately from my Radio Shack multi-meter, and after 2 hrs., it rose to 2 volts.
I found a place to live shortly thereafter, so I never returned to that lot. The system was successful, however. I just didn't have the time to develop it further.
--Lee
test
Just when I thought it couldn't get worst I find this news:
Two companies are currently engaged in the late stages of commencing to mine seafloor massive sulfides. Nautilus Minerals (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nautilus_Minerals) is in the advanced stages of commencing extraction from its Solwarra deposit, in the Bismarck Archipelago (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bismarck_Archipelago), and Neptune Minerals is at an earlier stage with its Rumble II West deposit, located on the Kermadec Arc (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kermadec_Arc), near the Kermadec Islands (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kermadec_Islands). Both companies are proposing using modified existing technology. Nautilus Minerals, in partnership with Placer Dome (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placer_Dome) (now part of Barrick Gold (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrick_Gold)), succeeded in 2006 in returning over 10 metric tons of mined SMS to the surface using modified drum cutters mounted on an ROV, a world first.[56] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrothermal_vent#cite_note-56) Neptune Minerals in 2007 succeeded in recovering SMS sediment samples using a modified oil industry suction pump mounted on an ROV, also a world first.[57] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrothermal_vent#cite_note-57)[/color][/font][/size]
[/color][/font][/size]
Potential seafloor mining has environmental impacts including dust plumes from mining machinery affecting filter-feeding organisms,[53] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrothermal_vent#cite_note-Mining_2015-53) collapsing or reopening vents, methane clathrate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane_clathrate) release, or even sub-oceanic land slides.[58] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrothermal_vent#cite_note-58) A large amount of work is currently being engaged in by both the above-mentioned companies to ensure that potential environmental impacts of seafloor mining are well understood and control measures are implemented, before exploitation commences.[59] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrothermal_vent#cite_note-59)[/color][/font][/size]
[/color][/font][/size]
Attempts have been made in the past to exploit minerals from the seafloor. The 1960s and 70s saw a great deal of activity (and expenditure) in the recovery of manganese nodules (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manganese_nodule) from the abyssal plains (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abyssal_plain), with varying degrees of success. This does demonstrate however that recovery of minerals from the seafloor is possible, and has been possible for some time. Interestingly, mining of manganese nodules served as a cover story for the elaborate attempt in 1974 by the CIA to raise the sunken Soviet submarine K-129 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_submarine_K-129_(1960)), using the Glomar Explorer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glomar_Explorer), a ship purpose built for the task by Howard Hughes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Hughes). The operation was known as Project Azorian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Azorian), and the cover story of seafloor mining of manganese nodules may have served as the impetus to propel other companies to make the attempt.[/color][/font][/size]